From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 02:15:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA28387 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 02:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA28382 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 02:15:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA16006; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 10:14:39 GMT Message-ID: <19971026101439.59661@pavilion.net> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 10:14:39 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Mike Smith Cc: Douglas Carmichael , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for digital recording w/PCI multitrack in/out cards? References: <19971025224535.22610@pavilion.net> <199710260120.LAA00510@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: <199710260120.LAA00510@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Oct 26, 1997 at 11:50:09AM +1030 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Oct 26, 1997 at 11:50:09AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > > > What multitrack recording software exists for FreeBSD? > > > > If someone could write a silicon graphics emulation we could all run > > cubase and dump our pcs :) > > (Now _that_ would be a nice christmas present.) > > You could just buy an old Atari and run it on the original platform 8) > > (or hack STonX to make it run there...) No thanks I've already dumped my st. I'm now running VST under Wierdos95, but it doesn't quite cut it on my p100 :(. Joe -- Josef Karthauser Technical Manager Email: joe@pavilion.net Pavilion Internet plc. [Tel: +44 1273 607072 Fax: +44 1273 607073] From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 03:49:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00933 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 03:49:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de [141.31.112.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00927; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 03:49:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA07531; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:49:10 +0100 (MET) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <199710261149.MAA07531@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/diff system.h In-Reply-To: <199710230222.TAA07359@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Andrey A. Chernov" at "Oct 22, 97 07:22:52 pm" To: ache@FreeBSD.ORG (Andrey A. Chernov) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:49:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ache 1997/10/22 19:22:52 PDT > > Modified files: > gnu/usr.bin/diff system.h > Log: > Add (unsigned char) cast to ctype macros > > Revision Changes Path > 1.4 +5 -5 src/gnu/usr.bin/diff/system.h Should all char arguments to all ctype macros (isspace, isdigit ...) in our source tree be cast to unsigned char? Quite a lot of them aren't. Wolfgang From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 04:05:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA01425 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:05:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01418 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:05:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03624; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:03:42 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:03:07 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Wolfgang Helbig cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/diff system.h In-Reply-To: <199710261149.MAA07531@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > > ache 1997/10/22 19:22:52 PDT > > > > Modified files: > > gnu/usr.bin/diff system.h > > Log: > > Add (unsigned char) cast to ctype macros > > > > Revision Changes Path > > 1.4 +5 -5 src/gnu/usr.bin/diff/system.h > > Should all char arguments to all ctype macros (isspace, isdigit > ...) in our source tree be cast to unsigned char? > > Quite a lot of them aren't. Those ctype macros are pain. General rule is that only EOF,0..255 range is allowed per POSIX and ANSI. It means that ctype(char) is illegal if char have 8bit set, because negative sign extension happens. Possible workarounds: 1) If the program assumes ASCII-only, test isascii() before any ctype macro call. 2) Add (unsigned char) cast to all ctype macros calls. Direct cast mask possible programmer errors like ctype(s) instead of ctype(*s). 3) Add -funsigned-char to CFLAGS, it seems to be best way unless some programs assume that char is signed somewhere. Many old BSD programs does. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 04:38:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA02579 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:38:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA02574; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:38:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA01076 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:38:53 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA00990; Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:29:27 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199710251829.TAA00990@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: 2.2.2-RELEASE '875 SCSI won't negotiage To: se@FreeBSD.ORG (Stefan Esser) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:29:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, joe@via.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971025111540.12105@mi.uni-koeln.de> from "Stefan Esser" at Oct 25, 97 11:15:40 am X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Stefan Esser wrote... > On 1997-10-20 20:24 -0500, dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > This IS low! > > Seems your drive does not signal early command completion > on writes, even if tags are used (or did you disable tags ?) > > What's the state of the WCE bit in mode page 8 ? > > # scsi -f /dev/sd0 -m 8 > WCE: 1 > [ ... having read further down, I see you DTRT WRT WCE ... ] Side stepping but interesting all the same: FreeBSD 2.2.1R / NCR810 / DEC RZ29B / Pentium 100 / WCE=1 / on /usr -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU %CPU 3980 97.6 5921 25.2 2063 14.1 4094 98.3 5813 20.4 ditto but WCE=0 Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU 100 3957 97.4 5798 24.4 2057 14.0 4059 97.3 6773 23.7 102.9 5.6 Oh: DEC RZ29B == Seagate ST15150N Barracuda 4Gb. Seems that WCE is a mixed blessing to say the least. All of this is an ASUS P100 box Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' ------------------ Support your local daemons: run FreeBSD Unix -----Yoda From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 04:42:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA02750 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:42:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA02741 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12475; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:20:58 GMT Message-Id: <199710261220.MAA12475@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: When login class? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:34:55 +1030." <19971026143455.13913@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:20:58 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Am I correct in believing that the current login class concept was > introduced in 4.4BSD? Otherwise, where did it come from? I don't think it's a 4.4BSDism. David Nugent added it a while ago (davidn@FreeBSD.org). > Greg -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 04:58:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03442 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:58:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de [141.31.112.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA03437 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 04:57:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA07666; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:56:41 +0100 (MET) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <199710261256.NAA07666@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/diff system.h In-Reply-To: from "[______ ______]" at "Oct 26, 97 03:03:07 pm" To: ache@nagual.pp.ru (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:56:40 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Those ctype macros are pain. General rule is that only EOF,0..255 range > is allowed per POSIX and ANSI. It means that ctype(char) is illegal > if char have 8bit set, because negative sign extension happens. Possible > workarounds: > 1) If the program assumes ASCII-only, test isascii() before any ctype > macro call. isascii() is a non ISO-C extension. So better yet we change the program in question to make it independent of this bogus assumption. > 2) Add (unsigned char) cast to all ctype macros calls. Direct cast mask > possible programmer errors like ctype(s) instead of ctype(*s). 2a) Pass an unsigned char (or int with its value in EOF, 0..UCHAR_MAX) right away, i. e. change the definition ``char *foo'' to ``unsigned char *foo'' whenever possible. > 3) Add -funsigned-char to CFLAGS, it seems to be best way unless some > programs assume that char is signed somewhere. Many old BSD programs does. This makes our source depend on a non portable feature of gcc, which I think should be avoided. So I suggest to adopt method 2) and 2a). Wolfgang From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 05:08:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03874 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 05:08:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03868 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 05:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA04589; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:07:59 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:07:55 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Wolfgang Helbig cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/diff system.h In-Reply-To: <199710261256.NAA07666@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > isascii() is a non ISO-C extension. So better yet we change the > program in question to make it independent of this bogus assumption. isascii() conforms to ISO 9899: 1990 (``ISO C'') Sometimes it is not bogus, i.e. when you check DNS name, you need only ASCII subset for isalpha() > > 2) Add (unsigned char) cast to all ctype macros calls. Direct cast mask > > possible programmer errors like ctype(s) instead of ctype(*s). > > 2a) Pass an unsigned char (or int with its value in EOF, 0..UCHAR_MAX) > right away, i. e. change the definition ``char *foo'' to > ``unsigned char *foo'' whenever possible. It is more difficult than 2) and may cause prototypes mismatch and assignment types conflict but now allows programmer errors of course. > > 3) Add -funsigned-char to CFLAGS, it seems to be best way unless some > > programs assume that char is signed somewhere. Many old BSD programs does. > > This makes our source depend on a non portable feature of gcc, which I > think should be avoided. It is beter way for 3rd party software like GNU one since require minimal source changes. > So I suggest to adopt method 2) and 2a). I suggest to adopt the method which best fit to particular situation. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 05:53:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA05350 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 05:53:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de [141.31.112.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA05344 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 05:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA08049; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:52:32 +0100 (MET) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <199710261352.OAA08049@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/diff system.h In-Reply-To: from "[______ ______]" at "Oct 26, 97 04:07:55 pm" To: ache@nagual.pp.ru (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:52:31 +0100 (MET) Cc: helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > > > isascii() is a non ISO-C extension. So better yet we change the > > program in question to make it independent of this bogus assumption. > > isascii() conforms to ISO 9899: 1990 (``ISO C'') No. My reference is P. J. Plauger, ``The Standard C Library'', 1992, Prentice Hall. which claims to quote the ISO 9899: 1990 standard. So if P. J. Plauger lies we have to change the ctype.h file, where ``isascii'' is hidden by the ``_ANSI_SOURCE'' symbol. (According to Plauger, ANSI-C and ISO-C do not differ.) > Sometimes it is not bogus, i.e. when you check DNS name, you need only > ASCII subset for isalpha() Well, not when you have to check DNS names on an IBM mainframe with EBCDIC. > > > 2) Add (unsigned char) cast to all ctype macros calls. Direct cast mask > > > possible programmer errors like ctype(s) instead of ctype(*s). > > > > 2a) Pass an unsigned char (or int with its value in EOF, 0..UCHAR_MAX) > > right away, i. e. change the definition ``char *foo'' to > > ``unsigned char *foo'' whenever possible. > > It is more difficult than 2) and may cause prototypes mismatch and > assignment types conflict but now allows programmer errors of course. Yes. > > > 3) Add -funsigned-char to CFLAGS, it seems to be best way unless some > > > programs assume that char is signed somewhere. Many old BSD programs does. > > > > This makes our source depend on a non portable feature of gcc, which I > > think should be avoided. > > It is beter way for 3rd party software like GNU one since require minimal > source changes. I agree for 3rd party software. > > So I suggest to adopt method 2) and 2a). > > I suggest to adopt the method which best fit to particular situation. Sure. Wolfgang From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 12:08:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18037 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:08:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18030 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:08:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xPYwp-0006pM-00; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:06:07 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 12:05:59 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Brian Somers cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: When login class? In-Reply-To: <199710261220.MAA12475@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > > Am I correct in believing that the current login class concept was > > introduced in 4.4BSD? Otherwise, where did it come from? > > I don't think it's a 4.4BSDism. David Nugent added it a while ago > (davidn@FreeBSD.org). The class concept was added in 4.4. At least 4.4 added add the extra field in the passwd file for it. It definitely was not implmented in 4.4, but it could have been defined. I know that BSDI 2.1 (or perhaps 2.0) was the first to use the class field. I'm not sure if this was the same design that was envisioned back in the 4.4 days (BSDI did pick up a lot of ex-4.4 developers from Berkeley), or something new that was developed at BSDI. Anyhow, FreeBSD class idea is very similar to BSDI's. > > Greg > > -- > Brian , , > > Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > > > Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 13:36:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21941 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:36:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kerouac.hepcat.org (cosmos@kerouac.hepcat.org [207.155.93.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21934 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:36:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cosmos@kerouac.hepcat.org) Received: (from cosmos@localhost) by kerouac.hepcat.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA04046 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:42:35 GMT Message-Id: <199710261442.OAA04046@kerouac.hepcat.org> Subject: PAO for 2.2.5 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:42:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Daniel Leeds Reply-to: dleeds@dfacades.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk has pao been updated for 2.2.5 yet? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 16:40:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00603 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00583 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:40:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA19719 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:45:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:45:01 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: help with fstat? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i'm trying to write a program that will dump a file through a TCP connection, i've decided to use fstat() to get the optimum tranfer info... however i'm very confused as to what it reports, the man page says: st_blksize The optimal I/O block size for the file. st_blocks The actual number of blocks allocated for the file in 512-byte units. As short symbolic links are stored in the inode, this number may be zero. i want to run a loop doing reads from the file into a buffer of optimal size... how should i derive the size optimal amount of bytes from this? is seems fstat always returns the same amount of blocks for the two values no matter how big the file is it always reports that i should grab the whole file... is there a better way to get this info? or am i interpreting the data incorrectly? another problem i'm having is figuring out how to manipulate the data type "quad_t" can someone point me to where it is defined? i know it represents an 8 byte integer right? but how can i move it around correctly and use it? -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 16:43:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00809 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00786 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 16:43:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA08663; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA27913; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:43:40 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:43:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710270043.RAA27913@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dleeds@dfacades.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PAO for 2.2.5 In-Reply-To: <199710261442.OAA04046@kerouac.hepcat.org> References: <199710261442.OAA04046@kerouac.hepcat.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Moved to -mobil ] > has pao been updated for 2.2.5 yet? No, but apparently you can apply the diffs from the older release, and all but one applies to 2.2.5. Hopefully by the time 3.0 is released PAO won't be necessary since stock FreeBSD will contain the same functionality, either by using the code/techniques in PAO, or by using new code. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 17:11:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03179 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:11:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03172 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:10:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15170; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:10:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971026171045.64828@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:10:45 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help with fstat? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Sun, Oct 26, 1997 at 08:45:01PM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Alfred Perlstein scribbled this message on Oct 26: > > i'm trying to write a program that will dump a file through a TCP > connection, i've decided to use fstat() to get the optimum tranfer info... well... I would recommend you mmapping the file, and simply write the whole data... of course this will limit your file size to just below 2gigs... this will prevent an extra copy to your local buffers... hope this helps.. ttyl.. -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 17:14:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03393 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:14:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03388 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xPdjn-0006xl-00; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:12:59 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:12:47 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: ... > i want to run a loop doing reads from the file into a buffer of optimal > size... Don't do that. Just mmap() the file, and use memcpy(). Much more efficient. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 17:23:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03701 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03695 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:23:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xPds5-0006xz-00; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:21:33 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:21:32 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > i want to run a loop doing reads from the file into a buffer of optimal > size... Argh... I don't know what I thinking when I wrote my previous message, but mmap() the file, and then write() as you presumably want to send it out a socket. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 17:25:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03910 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:25:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03905 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:25:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA19784 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:31:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:31:01 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk don't want to look a gift answer in the mouth but i don't think this is a good idea, i'm working on a distributed system for transfering files across the internet. the system is supposed to be able to manage a large load of file transfers over TCP. if i mmap tons of files across many processes i think i will cause a large amount of unnessesary paging, as most of the files will be in the 200k-5meg range this will be too much laod on the system. unless mmap() maps in on demand... but i think i'll be eating up all my address space... isn't fstat supposed to be what i'm looking for? i don't want to exhaust the virtual memory on the machine, just get optimal transfers. > ... > > i want to run a loop doing reads from the file into a buffer of optimal > > size... > > Don't do that. Just mmap() the file, and use memcpy(). Much more > efficient. > > Tom > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 17:46:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04991 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:46:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA04984 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:46:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xPeEA-0006yr-00; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:44:22 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:44:17 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Jerry Hicks cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: <3452B4B9.8A4510A9@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Oct 1997, Jerry Hicks wrote: > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > Yeah, but when you go to buy memory they have ECC *OR* parity types > > > available. ECC generally costs more than parity... > > > > Crap. In the case of 72-pin parts, parity and ECC are both x36. 30-pin > > parts are either x8 (no parity) or x9 (parity, or ECC in groups of 4). > > > > mike > > Hi Mike, > > i understood that they're referred to as ECC vs PARITY because of the > memory controller interface. True, the same number of bits are found in > devices labeled both ways. > > Some ECC controllers must have special requirements of the interface to > the memory (timing, interleaving ?) Depends. PC motherboards implement ECC with standard parity RAM. Most motherboards all use the same Intel chipset, where is all handled. I've seen custom ECC memory before (x38), but it only worked on one particular device. > A quick AltaVista search on ECC found this link: > > http://www1.ibmlink.ibm.com/HTML/SPEC/6062ipme.html#pari > > (IBM, ugh) In this example they are pretty explicit that parity memory > is different from ECC-EDO devices. i'll bet the prices are different > too. Who cares... it is price sheet. > Do you know anything of Richard Hamming's assertion that parity memory > (the old fashioned even/odd type) is-a-bad -thing in large > configurations? I think it bullshit. I've never heard of this before. Nor have you in the two times you've mentioned it, actually stated what is supposed to be so bad about it. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 17:58:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05531 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:58:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05525 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:58:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA19845 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:03:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:03:34 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Do you know anything of Richard Hamming's assertion that parity memory > > (the old fashioned even/odd type) is-a-bad -thing in large > > configurations? > > I think it bullshit. I've never heard of this before. Nor have you in > the two times you've mentioned it, actually stated what is supposed to be > so bad about it. more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" bits? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 18:46:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07537 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:46:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA07532 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xPfAw-000715-00; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:45:06 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:45:04 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Do you know anything of Richard Hamming's assertion that parity memory > > > (the old fashioned even/odd type) is-a-bad -thing in large > > > configurations? > > > > I think it bullshit. I've never heard of this before. Nor have you in > > the two times you've mentioned it, actually stated what is supposed to be > > so bad about it. > > more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" > bits? And how is that bad? Even simple parity systems will catch 100% of all single bit errors, regardless of where the bit appears. More bits mean more redundancy. That means it gets safer, not riskier. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 18:59:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08049 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:59:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from meowy.angio.net (meowy.angio.net [206.197.119.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08042 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:59:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from angio@meowy.angio.net) Received: from meowy.angio.net (localhost.angio.net [127.0.0.1]) by meowy.angio.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02224; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:58:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710270258.TAA02224@meowy.angio.net> To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:31:01 EST." Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:58:46 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > if i mmap tons of files across many processes i think i will cause a large > amount of unnessesary paging, as most of the files will be in the > 200k-5meg range this will be too much laod on the system. Nope. > > unless mmap() maps in on demand... but i think i'll be eating up all my > address space... Pages that you mmap are only paged in on demand. The simple act of mmapping a file doesn't cause it to be read in to memory. You're not going to eat up your address space with a few mmapped files per process. Remember, you're dealing with a 32 bit address space - you could map in gigabytes per process and not have to worry. Remember also that each process has its own virtual address space. They can't "collide" with each other in some way. Each process could mmap huge chunks and you'd never have to worry. > isn't fstat supposed to be what i'm looking for? Fstat will give you the size of the file, yes. You'll want to use it in conjunction with mmap. > i don't want to exhaust the virtual memory on the machine, just get > optimal transfers. mmap will give you optimal transfers since you won't have the additional overhead of additional memory copies inside your machine. -Dave From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 19:07:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08378 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:07:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08373 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA19948; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:12:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:12:33 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Tom cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" > > bits? > > And how is that bad? Even simple parity systems will catch 100% of all > single bit errors, regardless of where the bit appears. > > More bits mean more redundancy. That means it gets safer, not riskier. ok, 9 to 8 is a 1.125 difference in the ratio? i think, what he means is that with a large amount of memory you just have more bits that can go bad... i'm not really sure though, just playing devil's advocate... you still have the same amount of protection, just more risk. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 19:20:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08949 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:20:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA08943 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:20:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xPfhB-00072V-00; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:18:25 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:18:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" > > > bits? > > > > And how is that bad? Even simple parity systems will catch 100% of all > > single bit errors, regardless of where the bit appears. > > > > More bits mean more redundancy. That means it gets safer, not riskier. > > ok, 9 to 8 is a 1.125 difference in the ratio? > i think, what he means is that with a large amount of memory you just have > more bits that can go bad... All the more reason to use parity. > i'm not really sure though, just playing devil's advocate... > > you still have the same amount of protection, just more risk. The same goes for everything. If the MTBF of one item is X, the MTBF of N such items is X/N. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 19:22:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09048 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:22:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09043 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:22:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA01035; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:22:12 -0800 (PST) To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:03:34 EST." Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:22:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1032.877922532@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" > bits? Hahahahahahahahahaha.. That's pretty good. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 19:27:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09272 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coal.nis.newscorp.com (mxa.newscorp.com [206.15.105.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09250 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ben@multivac.narcissus.net) Received: from multivac.narcissus.net (ts2port14.port.net [207.38.248.142]) by coal.nis.newscorp.com (News Corp SMTP GW 1.1) with SMTP id WAA05905; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:27:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by multivac.narcissus.net (NX5.67e/NX3.0S) id AA00407; Sun, 26 Oct 97 20:05:16 -0400 Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:05:15 -0400 (GMT-0400) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: benedict@echonyc.com To: Daniel Leeds Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PAO for 2.2.5 In-Reply-To: <199710261442.OAA04046@kerouac.hepcat.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk No. On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Daniel Leeds wrote: > has pao been updated for 2.2.5 yet? > > > > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 19:31:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09515 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09510 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:31:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23754; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:22:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:22:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Do you know anything of Richard Hamming's assertion that parity memory > > > (the old fashioned even/odd type) is-a-bad -thing in large > > > configurations? > > > > I think it bullshit. I've never heard of this before. Nor have you in > > the two times you've mentioned it, actually stated what is supposed to be > > so bad about it. > > more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" > bits? No, ECC is fine, it's parity only that causes the problem. Basically, with non-parity memory, you have a higher chance of getting the right answer, but if you get the wrong answer, you might not know it. With ECC memory, the chances of getting the right answer go up quite a bit, From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 19:36:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09838 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:36:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09832 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 19:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by earth.mat.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA29481; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:35:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:34:39 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Do you know anything of Richard Hamming's assertion that parity memory > > > (the old fashioned even/odd type) is-a-bad -thing in large > > > configurations? > > > > I think it bullshit. I've never heard of this before. Nor have you in > > the two times you've mentioned it, actually stated what is supposed to be > > so bad about it. > > more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" > bits? Not unless the error rate is spectacularly high, Alfred. It's not that high (nearly within orders of magnitude) for RAM. The parity does some good, but ECC does better. The algorithms have existed for a long time, but the ability to do it inexpensively in hardware came a lot later. Parity is good, but ECC is far better, and with the current state of the hardware art, parity no longer competes. It used to. > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 20:54:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14622 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:54:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA14615 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:53:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <56600(2)>; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:53:22 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177488>; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:53:09 -0800 To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MTU Path discovery. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Oct 97 07:15:50 PDT." <199710231415.AAA06574@plum.cyber.com.au> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 20:52:57 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <97Oct26.205309pst.177488@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Darren Reed wrote: >I'm want to add a sysctl knob to control this (default to on). "route add default -mtu 512" does almost what you want. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 22:39:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19204 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19199 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:39:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA01544; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:37:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Chuck Robey cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How about ECC in ram, like object checksums on the HP 48. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 22:50:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19714 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:50:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA19709 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA00370 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:50:44 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA27274; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:50:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971027075008.JD23477@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:50:08 +0100 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help with fstat? References: <199710270258.TAA02224@meowy.angio.net> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199710270258.TAA02224@meowy.angio.net>; from Dave Andersen on Oct 26, 1997 19:58:46 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dave Andersen wrote: > > isn't fstat supposed to be what i'm looking for? > > Fstat will give you the size of the file, yes. You'll want to use > it in conjunction with mmap. But that's st_size, of course, not st_blocks, Alfred. st_blocks (IMHO) also accounts for indirect blocks, and unless your file is a multiple of the blocksize, will make you attempt reading beyond the end of the file (which you should never do for mmapped files). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 23:24:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22038 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:24:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA22033 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:24:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 2724 invoked by uid 1001); 27 Oct 1997 07:24:14 +0000 (GMT) To: jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:37:47 -0800 (PST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:24:14 +0100 Message-ID: <2722.877937054@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How about ECC in ram, like object checksums on the HP 48. What is it you want to do? ECC based on parity memory is fairly inexpensive. You need 12.5% more bits, total, and a chipset that can handle ECC. This lets you correct all single bit errors and detect all double bit errors (also many multiple bit errors). What more do you want? Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 26 23:55:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24352 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:55:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA24346 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 23:55:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA03134; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:41:11 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710270641.HAA03134@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: a question about LKM To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:41:11 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am looking at how ot make my audio driver an LKM. I have seen some examples of LKMs but none of them uses interrupts. As a consequence, I am a bit unclear on what actions should be done at load time (and especially, at unload time) so that interrupts are properly delivered. For the attach part i can probably figure it out -- just do the standard attach() action -- but what for the detach ? Can anyone help ? Thanks Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 01:47:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA00752 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 01:47:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA00735 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 01:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA24643; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 01:48:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710270948.BAA24643@implode.root.com> To: sthaug@nethelp.no cc: jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:24:14 +0100." <2722.877937054@verdi.nethelp.no> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 01:48:47 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >ECC based on parity memory is fairly inexpensive. You need 12.5% more >bits, total, and a chipset that can handle ECC. This lets you correct >all single bit errors and detect all double bit errors (also many >multiple bit errors). Actually, it's not a percentage. It works out like this: data_bits ECC_bits 8 5 16 6 32 7 64 8 As you can see, at 64 data bits the number of extra bits needed to implement ECC is the same as is needed for byte parity. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 04:04:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA12468 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:04:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA12458 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:04:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA24907; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA15794; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA22650; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:01:05 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710271201.EAA22650@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:01:05 -0800 In-Reply-To: Alexander Litvin "Re: de0 errors" (Oct 25, 6:49pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Alexander Litvin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de0 errors Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 25, 6:49pm, Alexander Litvin wrote: } Subject: Re: de0 errors } I experience the same. } } No problem it would be, but with that card the box also seems } to lockup after a while :( It is our proxy server, quite busy } (about 30000 requests per hour), and I don't have opportunity } to investigate it in details, but after installation of DE it } locked up two times during one hour, so I decided to put back } PCI ed. } } All that on 2.2.5, 266MHz P-II, Intel LX chipset. } } > de0 rev 18 int a irq 9 on pci0:20 } > de0: SMC 9332DST 21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 I don't have information specific to the 440LX chipset, but I suspect that it behaves similarly to the 440FX chipset which is used witht the Pentium Pro. If so, the 9332DST or other 21140 based NIC is probably a bad choice. A 21140A based NIC should work much better. On the PCI bus, there are three flavors of memory read commands. They are MR (Memory Read), which is best for reading small amounts of data, MRL (Memory Read Line), which is best for reading up to the next cache line boundary, and MRM (Memory Read Multiple) which is best for reading multiple cache lines of data in one burst. According to some messages posted to the pci-sig mail list by Bruce Young of Intel, the Intel 430 series chipsets which are used with Pentium processors treat all the flavors of PCI memory reads the same, but the 440FX chipset tries to avoid wasting memory bandwidth by using the PCI memory read command as a hint on whether or not to prefetch more data from memory in preparation for forwarding it to the PCI device. He says the 440FX will disconnect a PCI MR transaction at each cache line boundary, but it generally not do this to to MRL and MRM commands. He also says there is a delay of 8-12 PCI clock cycles at the beginning of PCI memory reads. The information I have says that the 21140 is only capable of issuing MR commands, which means that the data transfer rate across the PCI bus from a 440FX will be pretty bad. The 21140A is capable of issuing both MR and MRM commands, which greatly increases the data transfer rate. You might want to look at http://support.intel.com/oem_developer/chipsets/pci/general/PCI001.HTM From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 04:20:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA13780 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA13768 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:20:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z14) with ESMTP id NAA08255 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:19:47 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id NAA03303 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:31:56 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:31:56 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199710271231.NAA03303@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: mmap/mlock problem Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've written a driver for an industrial control card (portions of it coppered from /sys/i386/isa/spigot.c as far as the mmap stuff is concerned) With regard to the mapping into a user program it seems to work but the mapped memory region behaves differently in the user process. The ISA mapped memory is a dual ported RAM which is controlled by the on board CPU on one end and the user process on the other end. Writing something into the ISA memory should not result in reading the same back from it. But the fact of the matter is that I read back what I'v written into it and this seems to me as if the memory is cached. I tried a mlock call on the mmapped region but this seems to fail in the user process. Can anyone give me some assistance on getting further here? -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 04:34:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA15242 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:34:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA15237 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA25017; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:33:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16357; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:33:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA22692; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:33:51 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710271233.EAA22692@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 04:33:51 -0800 In-Reply-To: Matt Thomas "Re: de0 errors" (Oct 23, 7:51am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Matt Thomas , Charles Henrich , Jaye Mathisen Subject: Re: de0 errors Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 23, 7:51am, Matt Thomas wrote: } Subject: Re: de0 errors } At 12:57 AM 10/23/97 -0400, Charles Henrich wrote: } >After moving to 2.2.5-RELEASE im seeing: } > } >Oct 23 00:32:12 msunews /kernel: ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers } >Oct 23 00:35:45 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow } >(raising TX threshold to 96|256) } >Oct 23 00:36:01 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow } >(raising TX threshold to 8|512) } >Oct 23 00:37:41 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow } >(raising TX threshold to 1024) } >Oct 23 00:55:14 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow } >(switching to store-and-forward mode) } > } >Any ideas? Are these informational, or are they bad? } } they are informational. In the sense that everything is working, but if you're seeing transmit underflows even when the TX threshold has been set to 1024, then I suspect you'll have a real problem getting anywhere near full performance out of the card. A full size ethernet packet contains 1514 bytes of data (including the source and destination address but not the trailing CRC), and data is transmitted at 12.5MB/sec in in 100Mb mode. In this mode it takes about 82 microseconds to send the 1024 bytes that were loaded into the transmit FIFO before the packet transmission is started. If it can't load the remaining 490 bytes of data in those 82 microseconds, that means the data transfer rate across the PCI bus to the NIC must be less than 6 MB/sec. That's not very good for a 132 MB/sec bus ... Hmn, I'd also expect to see receive overflows if the data transfer rate is truly this bad and there is significant network activity. In the de driver this only seems to increment a private counter as well as the interface ierrors counter. It doesn't get logged like alignment and crc input errors do. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 05:53:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20743 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 05:53:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20738 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 05:52:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA24466; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:03:00 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199710271303.IAA24466@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem In-Reply-To: <199710271231.NAA03303@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from Christoph Kukulies at "Oct 27, 97 01:31:56 pm" To: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (Christoph Kukulies) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:02:59 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The ISA mapped memory is a dual ported RAM which is > controlled by the on board CPU on one end and the > user process on the other end. Writing something > into the ISA memory should not result in reading > the same back from it. But the fact of the matter is > that I read back what I'v written into it and this > seems to me as if the memory is cached. > > I tried a mlock call on the mmapped region but this > seems to fail in the user process. You shouldn't have to lock the region - the page tables for that virtual section of your process are set up to map to those physical addresses. Unplug the board and verify that you now can't write to it so you know you're accessing the board - I think the map will still succeed. Do you have to do some sort of hand shake with the CPU on the I/O board? Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 05:59:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20959 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 05:59:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20954 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 05:59:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z14) with ESMTP id OAA10730; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:59:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id PAA03657; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:11:40 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971027151139.61831@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:11:39 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies To: Peter Dufault Cc: Christoph Kukulies , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem References: <199710271231.NAA03303@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <199710271303.IAA24466@hda.hda.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199710271303.IAA24466@hda.hda.com>; from Peter Dufault on Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 08:02:59AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 08:02:59AM -0500, Peter Dufault wrote: > > The ISA mapped memory is a dual ported RAM which is > > controlled by the on board CPU on one end and the > > user process on the other end. Writing something > > into the ISA memory should not result in reading > > the same back from it. But the fact of the matter is > > that I read back what I'v written into it and this > > seems to me as if the memory is cached. > > > > I tried a mlock call on the mmapped region but this > > seems to fail in the user process. > > You shouldn't have to lock the region - the page tables for that > virtual section of your process are set up to map to those physical > addresses. Unplug the board and verify that you now can't write > to it so you know you're accessing the board - I think the map > will still succeed. > > Do you have to do some sort of hand shake with the CPU on the > I/O board? Yes, it seems so. Not in such an atomic level that some CPU data transfer acknowledge lines are tied to the memory locations but on some higher level. There is a 80186 on the board which communicates over some semaphores in the memory region with the outside world. You write a command into the location and that location must read as 0000 or FFFF if the board is ready or not resp.. Actually it's quite weird - I have the source of a DOS program which communicates with the board. (This is written for Borlandc/16 bit) > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, > HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 06:12:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA21687 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 06:12:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA21679 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 06:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09275; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:12:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971027091235.60825@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:12:35 -0500 From: Charles Henrich To: Don Lewis Cc: Matt Thomas , Jaye Mathisen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de0 errors References: <199710271233.EAA22692@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199710271233.EAA22692@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com>; from Don Lewis on Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 04:33:51AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On the subject of Re: de0 errors, Don Lewis stated: > On Oct 23, 7:51am, Matt Thomas wrote: > } Subject: Re: de0 errors > } At 12:57 AM 10/23/97 -0400, Charles Henrich wrote: > } >After moving to 2.2.5-RELEASE im seeing: > } > > } >Oct 23 00:32:12 msunews /kernel: ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers > } >Oct 23 00:35:45 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow > } >(raising TX threshold to 96|256) > } >Oct 23 00:36:01 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow > } >(raising TX threshold to 8|512) > } >Oct 23 00:37:41 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow > } >(raising TX threshold to 1024) > } >Oct 23 00:55:14 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow > } >(switching to store-and-forward mode) > } > > } >Any ideas? Are these informational, or are they bad? > } > } they are informational. > > In the sense that everything is working, but if you're seeing transmit > underflows even when the TX threshold has been set to 1024, then I suspect > you'll have a real problem getting anywhere near full performance out > of the card. Can you suggest any debugging tips for isolating and fixing this problem? Just using FTP between two hosts on the 100mbit net I see 2-3MB/sec and receive at about half that. However this system is also a very busy news server. I wish FreeBSD had a top or systat function that showed network traffic in K/Sec. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 06:19:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA22081 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 06:19:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA22075 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 06:19:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA12570; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:19:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20509; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:06:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id HAA02897; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:55:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:55:48 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710271255.HAA02897@lakes.dignus.com> To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, tom@sdf.com Subject: Re: Parity Ram Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > Do you know anything of Richard Hamming's assertion that parity memory > > > > (the old fashioned even/odd type) is-a-bad -thing in large > > > > configurations? > > > > > > I think it bullshit. I've never heard of this before. Nor have you in > > > the two times you've mentioned it, actually stated what is supposed to be > > > so bad about it. > > > > more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" > > bits? > > And how is that bad? Even simple parity systems will catch 100% of all > single bit errors, regardless of where the bit appears. > > More bits mean more redundancy. That means it gets safer, not riskier. > > Tom > > In reliability - more doesn't always mean safer. Say, for example, I spread my database across two disks - but both have to be running for the software to gain access. Then, I've just doubled the probability of failure; not halved it. But - if I don't spread things out; but increase redundancy, I may have improved the situation. It depends on the path to the data (recall your database theory - you need one way to access information, redundancy in access paths can cause serious problems as well.) - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 07:18:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25195 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:18:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cs4.cs.ait.ac.th (root@cs4.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA25174 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:17:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from a96456@cs.ait.ac.th) Received: from bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th (a96456@bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.2]) by cs4.cs.ait.ac.th (8.6.12/) with ESMTP id WAA07033 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:06:02 +0700 Received: from localhost (a96456@localhost) by bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12199 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:05:57 +0700 (GMT) X-Authentication-Warning: bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th: a96456 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:05:57 +0700 (GMT) From: Sunthiti Patchararungruang To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with BPF Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Everybody, I need to create a program to repeat some data-link frames from an interface to another one. I use BPF. My program can read the frame correctly. However, when I write that frame to another interface, the source ethernet-address is changed from the original one to the output interface one. I need the frames copied without change. How can I do? Sincerely yours, Sunthiti Patchararungruang From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 07:46:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27424 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:46:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27412 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:46:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20929; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:51:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:51:02 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Sunthiti Patchararungruang cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with BPF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk try raw packets. > Dear Everybody, > > I need to create a program to repeat some data-link frames from an > interface to another one. I use BPF. My program can read the frame > correctly. However, when I write that frame to another interface, the > source ethernet-address is changed from the original one to the output > interface one. I need the frames copied without change. How can I do? > > Sincerely yours, > Sunthiti Patchararungruang > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 07:52:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27844 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:52:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27827 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:52:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA11950; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:51:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:51:10 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > > How about ECC in ram, like object checksums on the HP 48. I don't understand the question, Jamil. What exactly are you referring to? I made several statements about ECC. > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 08:26:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA29926 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:26:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29914 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:26:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA02715; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:24:21 -0800 (PST) To: Thomas David Rivers cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, tom@sdf.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:55:48 EST." <199710271255.HAA02897@lakes.dignus.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:24:21 -0800 Message-ID: <2711.877969461@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In reliability - more doesn't always mean safer. > > Say, for example, I spread my database across two disks - but both > have to be running for the software to gain access. Then, I've just > doubled the probability of failure; not halved it. I think he meant "more" in terms of redundancy, not distribution. Sure, if I split a database into 5000 chunks and put each chunk onto a distinct node on my network then I've made things pretty fragile in the process, but if each of those 5000 chunks is *identical* and any one of the 5000 notes can provide it to a client, then I've created something far more resistant to failure. Let's not confuse this situation by comparing apples and oranges. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 08:48:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA01915 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:48:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from chess.inetspace.com (chess.inetspace.com [206.50.163.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA01845 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:47:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kgor@chess.inetspace.com) Received: (from kgor@localhost) by chess.inetspace.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA11254; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:46:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:46:07 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199710271646.KAA11254@chess.inetspace.com> From: "Kent S. Gordon" To: jak@cetlink.net CC: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (jak@cetlink.net) Subject: Re: 48 meg double fault moved to 64 meg in 2.2.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "jak" == John Kelly writes: > Doug White wrote: >>> I have extra parts to build a third machine identical to the >>> configuration which shows the problem. >> Keep us posted. If you find anything consistent, you should >> send it using send-pr and maybe followup to >> hackers@freebsd.org. > The problem does occur with no SCSI present -- just the > motherboard and a video card. When testing it this way, I had > to use the floppy controller on the motherboard instead of the > faster one on the Buslogic SCSI card. That seems to rule out > either floppy controller as a cause of the problem. What is the problem you are seeing with the Buslogic SCSI card? Which Buslogic SCSI card do you have? I have a machine that works fine under 2.2.2, but fails on 2.2.5 in probing the SCSI bus. I have attached the message that I sent to FreeBSD-current about the problem. Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:02:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kent S. Gordon" To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 2.2.5 identying SCSI disk as Unknown device X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have done some additional investigation since my previous message (2.2.5BETA hanging in Boot). I have compiled a custom kernel using the RELENG_2_2_5_RELEASE tag that is identifing my root disk as an unknown device and hanging in the boot. This is on a machines that work great with custom kernel using the same config file on 2.2.2. I have changed scsi/scsi_debug.h to define DEBUGTARG to 0. Can anyone suggest where I should look to find out what is the probe to fail? The following in my copy of messages (I copy by hand so some mistakes are possible) that appear on the screen during boot bt0: Bt445S/ 0-ISA(24bit) bus bt0: Your card cannot DMA above 16MB boundary. Bounce buffering enabled. bt0: reading board settings, dma=5, int=11 bt0: version 3.36, fast sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: targ 1 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: Using Strict Round robin scheme bt0: Using Strict Round robin scheme bt0 at 0x330 irq 11 drq 5 on isa bt0 waiting for scsi devices to settle probe0(bt0:0:0) : scsi_cmd probe0(bt0:0:0) : scsi_done (bt0:0:0) command 0,0,0,0,0,0-[0 bytes] probe0(bt0:0:0) : scsi_cmd probe0(bt0:0:0) : scsi_done (bt0:0:0) command 12,0,0,0,2c,0-[44 bytes] ------ 0: 00 00 00 00 .. 16: 00 00 00 00 .. 32: 00 00 00 00 .. ------ (bt0:0:0): "unknown unknown ????" type 13 fixed SCSI 0 uk0(bt0:0:0) :uk0attach: uk0(bt0:0:0): Unknown bt0: not taking commands! stopped at _Debugger 0x35 The stack trace from the debugger was (I was to lazy to write down arguments to the function, if needed I can easily get the arguments). Debugger bt_time_out bt_poll bt_scsi_cmd scsi_scsi_cmd scsi_test_unit_ready scsi_probedev scsi_probe_bus scsi_attachdevs bt_attach bt_isa_attach config_isadev_c config_isadev isa_configure configure main This is a copy of the kernel config file used. # # GGZOO -- Cyrix 586/100 with BT controller # # For more information read the handbook part System Administration -> # Configuring the FreeBSD Kernel -> The Configuration File. # The handbook is available in /usr/share/doc/handbook or online as # latest version from the FreeBSD World Wide Web server # # # An exhaustive list of options and more detailed explanations of the # device lines is present in the ./LINT configuration file. If you are # in doubt as to the purpose or necessity of a line, check first in LINT. # # $Id: CHESS,v 1.1 1997/04/07 21:35:16 kgor Exp $ machine "i386" #cpu "I386_CPU" cpu "I486_CPU" cpu "I586_CPU" #cpu "I686_CPU" ident GGZOO maxusers 10 options DDB options DIAGNOSTIC options SCSIDEBUG #options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem #options NFS #Network Filesystem #options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] #options SCSI_DELAY=15 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options SCSI_DELAY=5 #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options FAILSAFE #Be conservative options USERCONFIG #boot -c editor options VISUAL_USERCONFIG #visual boot -c editor options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options "AUTO_EOI_1" #faster interrupts config kernel root on wd0 controller isa0 #I have a VLB, but no aha28xx cards, that think they are on a eisa bus. #controller eisa0 #controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 #tape ft0 at fdc0 drive 2 #controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr #disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 #disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 #controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr #disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 #disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 #options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus #options ATAPI_STATIC #Don't do it as an LKM #device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM # A single entry for any of these controllers (ncr, ahb, ahc) is sufficient # for any number of installed devices. #controller ncr0 #controller ahb0 #controller ahc0 controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector bt_isa_intr #controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr #controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr #controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr #controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr #controller nca1 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr #controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr controller scbus0 device sd0 #device od0 #See LINT for possible `od' options. #device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows device ch0 #SCSI media changers #device wt0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 5 drq 1 vector wtintr #device mcd0 at isa? port 0x300 bio irq 10 vector mcdintr #controller matcd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio #device scd0 at isa? port 0x230 bio # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options PCVT_FREEBSD=210 # pcvt running on FreeBSD >= 2.0.5 #options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 #options FAT_CURSOR # start with block cursor # If you have a ThinkPAD, uncomment this along with the rest of the PCVT lines #options PCVT_SCANSET=2 # IBM keyboards are non-std # Mandatory, don't remove device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr # # Laptop support (see LINT for more options) # #device apm0 at isa? disable # Advanced Power Management #options APM_BROKEN_STATCLOCK # Workaround some buggy APM BIOS # PCCARD (PCMCIA) support #controller crd0 #device pcic0 at crd? #device pcic1 at crd? device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr #device sio2 at isa? disable port "IO_COM3" tty irq 5 vector siointr #device sio3 at isa? disable port "IO_COM4" tty irq 9 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr #device lpt1 at isa? port? tty #device mse0 at isa? port 0x23c tty irq 5 vector mseintr #device psm0 at isa? disable port "IO_KBD" conflicts tty irq 12 vector psmintr # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. #device de0 #device fxp0 #device vx0 #device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ie0 at isa? port 0x360 net irq 7 iomem 0xd0000 vector ieintr #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr #device fe0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq ? vector feintr #device ix0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz 32768 vector ixintr #device le0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd0000 vector le_intr #device lnc0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 10 drq 0 vector lncintr #device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr #device zp0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 iomem 0xd8000 vector zpintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log #pseudo-device sl 1 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device #pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 32 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's # KTRACE enables the system-call tracing facility ktrace(2). # This adds 4 KB bloat to your kernel, and slightly increases # the costs of each syscall. options KTRACE #kernel tracing This is a copy of the dmesg output from a kernel using RELENG_2_2_2_RELEASE. Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE #0: Thu Oct 9 08:43:27 CDT 1997 kgor@chess.inetspace.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/CHESS Calibrating clock(s) ... i8254 clock: 1193747 Hz CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION not specified - using default frequency CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 30666752 (29948K bytes) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0: the current keyboard controller command byte 0045 kbdio: RESET_KBD return code:00fa kbdio: RESET_KBD status:00aa sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: BIOS video mode:3 sc0: VGA registers upon power-up 50 18 10 00 10 00 03 00 02 67 5f 4f 50 82 55 81 bf 1f 00 4f 0d 0e 00 00 ff ff 9c 8e 8f 28 1f 96 b9 a3 ff 00 01 02 03 04 05 14 07 38 39 3a 3b 3c 3d 3e 3f 0c 00 0f 08 00 00 00 00 00 10 0e 00 ff sc0: video mode:24 sc0: VGA registers for mode:24 50 18 10 00 10 00 03 00 02 67 5f 4f 50 82 55 81 bf 1f 00 4f 0d 0e 00 00 00 00 9c 8e 8f 28 1f 96 b9 a3 ff 00 01 02 03 04 05 14 07 38 39 3a 3b 3c 3d 3e 3f 0c 00 0f 08 00 00 00 00 00 10 0e 00 ff sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 5 on isa ed0: address 00:00:e8:cb:ac:1a, type NE2000 (16 bit) bpf: ed0 attached sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface bpf: lp0 attached fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 765 fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in bt0: Bt445S/ 0-ISA(24bit) bus bt0: Your card cannot DMA above 16MB boundary. Bounce buffering enabled. bt0: reading board settings, dma=5, int=11 bt0: version 3.36, fast sync, parity, 32 mbxs, 32 ccbs bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: targ 1 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 bt0: Using Strict Round robin scheme bt0 at 0x330 irq 11 drq 5 on isa bt0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (bt0:0:0): "DEC DSP5200S T392" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(bt0:0:0): Direct-Access 1908MB (3907911 512 byte sectors) sd0(bt0:0:0): with 2621 cyls, 21 heads, and an average 71 sectors/track (bt0:1:0): "SEAGATE ST31200N 8648" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 1006MB (2061108 512 byte sectors) sd1(bt0:1:0): with 2700 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 84 sectors/track npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface imasks: bio c0000840, tty c003009a, net c0020020 BIOS Geometries: 0:03ff3f20 0..1023=1024 cylinders, 0..63=64 heads, 1..32=32 sectors 1:03ed3f20 0..1005=1006 cylinders, 0..63=64 heads, 1..32=32 sectors 0 accounted for Device configuration finished. Considering FFS root f/s. changing root device to sd0a configure() finished. bpf: tun0 attached bpf: lo0 attached sd0s1: type 0xa5, start 32, end = 3907583, size 3907552 : OK sd1s1: type 0xa5, start 32, end = 2060287, size 2060256 : OK Thanks, Kent S. Gordon Senior Software Engineer iNetSpace Co. voice: (972)851-3494 fax:(972)702-0384 e-mail:kgor@inetspace.com > I found a CMOS option called "DRAM Hole for UNIX(64MB)" which I > enabled to see what would happen. > With 64 meg and 2.2.5, the problem disappeared. But with 48 meg > and 2.2.2 it had no effect, and the double fault still occurred. > I'm guessing that's because the BIOS does not try to create that > DRAM hole unless you fill the board with 64 meg of memory -- as > they do say in parentheses "(64MB)." > Unfortunately, I can't keep the "DRAM hole" enabled, because > after a reboot the memory test fails, and the only cure is the > hardware reset button. Even if I could leave it enabled, it's > of no help at all with 48 meg and the 2.2.2 boot floppy. > The memory test failure after a reboot may happen because this > motherboard does not have address line 26 wired to the chipset, > and thus anything over 64 meg cannot be addressed properly. > Presumably, to create the "DRAM hole," the BIOS remaps some > memory from below the 64 meg line to above 64 meg, and once it's > put there, it can no longer be seen, since A26 is unusable -- at > least not by the chipset (although A26 is wired between the CPU > and the local bus). > I learned about the A26 problem on this motherboard when I tried > using the linear addressing feature of XFree86 with my Cirrus > 5430 video card. Although the video card tries to use the A26 > line to remap its memory above the 64 meg line, the motherboard > could not handle it. The XFree docs have a good explanation of > this situation in X11R6/lib/X11/doc/README.cirrus. > But as for the motherboard and the boot floppy problem, I don't > understand the purpose of the "DRAM hole for UNIX," although it > clearly does have a positive effect on the boot floppy problem > when it's activated with 64 meg in the machine. > Is it true that this problem only occurs with the boot floppy? > The last good message I see with the 2.2.2 boot floppy and 48 > meg is "changing root device to fd0c," and then immediately the > "panic: double fault" appears. > Since floppy controllers use DMA, perhaps DMA and the bounce > buffers are an issue? Addressing memory remapped above 64 meg > may also be part of the problem, at least on this motherboard. > I did find an interesting tidbit in Messmer's "Indispensable PC > Hardware Book" (second edition). On page 621 he says: > "DMA transfer is not a trivial job, especially when paging > is enabled, even for the operating system ... as the DMA > controller overwrites the physical memory contents mercilessly > without any care for the protection mechanisms of the protected > mode ... an incorrectly initialized DMA chip may ... crash > ... the complete computer system." > Hmmm... sounds familiar. > Oh well, I've reached the limits of my knowledge in these areas. > I hope my report is of some help to the experts. > John Kent S. Gordon Senior Software Engineer iNetSpace Co. voice: (972)851-3494 fax:(972)702-0384 e-mail:kgor@inetspace.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 09:16:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05931 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05789 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:16:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id MAA08416; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:15:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00188; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:32:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA03323; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:21:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:21:38 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710271521.KAA03323@lakes.dignus.com> To: lada@ws6303.gud.siemens.at, stox@enteract.com, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: Building parallel "Beowulf-style" supercomputers with FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 06:28:00 MET 1997 > > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:50:37 -0500 (CDT) > > From: "Kenneth P. Stox" > > To: Terry Lambert > > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: Building parallel "Beowulf-style" supercomputers with FreeBSD > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > > > On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > >Unfortunately, if you are looking for a cool name, you are going to be > > >reusing one. The latest incarnation appears to be "Javelin", a loosely > > >coupled, massively parallel JVM type thing. > > > > > > > I used to drive a Javelin, somehow that name does not fill me with great > > confidence in performance. Wait a minute, "loosely coupled, massive," > > hey that does work. ;-> > > Hey, I used to drive one of these too, but I booted to an Olds 455 instead of > a preinstalled cca. 200 Six. Just don't ask me where the radiator and the > battery went nor how many gallons per mile it managed :) It _did_ rock, > though.[1] > > /Marino (showing his age again:) > > [1] It was a '68 model. Can you believe, it was considered to be a > smallish car at the time > > > > > Yeah - mine was a '68 as well. It was, umm, "yellow"... - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 09:44:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08886 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:44:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA08879 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:44:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xPtBs-0007YL-00; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:43:00 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:42:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Charles Henrich cc: Don Lewis , Matt Thomas , Jaye Mathisen , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: de0 errors In-Reply-To: <19971027091235.60825@crh.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Charles Henrich wrote: ... > server. I wish FreeBSD had a top or systat function that showed network > traffic in K/Sec. It does: netstat -I de0 -w > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu > > http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich > > Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 09:49:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA09330 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:49:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09318 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:49:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11918; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:49:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971027124929.22699@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:49:29 -0500 From: Charles Henrich To: Tom Cc: Don Lewis , Matt Thomas , Jaye Mathisen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de0 errors References: <19971027091235.60825@crh.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 09:42:52AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On the subject of Re: de0 errors, Tom stated: > > server. I wish FreeBSD had a top or systat function that showed network > > traffic in K/Sec. > > It does: netstat -I de0 -w hey Cool! When was that added? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 09:51:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA09544 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:51:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09525 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:51:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29209; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:46:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd029206; Mon Oct 27 17:46:18 1997 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Charles Henrich cc: Don Lewis , Matt Thomas , Jaye Mathisen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de0 errors In-Reply-To: <19971027091235.60825@crh.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk try netstat -I de0 -b 1 On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Charles Henrich wrote: > On the subject of Re: de0 errors, Don Lewis stated: > > > On Oct 23, 7:51am, Matt Thomas wrote: > > } Subject: Re: de0 errors > > } At 12:57 AM 10/23/97 -0400, Charles Henrich wrote: > > } >After moving to 2.2.5-RELEASE im seeing: > > } > > > } >Oct 23 00:32:12 msunews /kernel: ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers > > } >Oct 23 00:35:45 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow > > } >(raising TX threshold to 96|256) > > } >Oct 23 00:36:01 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow > > } >(raising TX threshold to 8|512) > > } >Oct 23 00:37:41 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow > > } >(raising TX threshold to 1024) > > } >Oct 23 00:55:14 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow > > } >(switching to store-and-forward mode) > > } > > > } >Any ideas? Are these informational, or are they bad? > > } > > } they are informational. > > > > In the sense that everything is working, but if you're seeing transmit > > underflows even when the TX threshold has been set to 1024, then I suspect > > you'll have a real problem getting anywhere near full performance out > > of the card. > > Can you suggest any debugging tips for isolating and fixing this problem? > > Just using FTP between two hosts on the 100mbit net I see 2-3MB/sec and > receive at about half that. However this system is also a very busy news > server. I wish FreeBSD had a top or systat function that showed network > traffic in K/Sec. > > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu > > http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 10:01:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10482 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:01:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10471 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:01:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xPtSD-0007ZF-00; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:59:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:59:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Charles Henrich cc: Don Lewis , Matt Thomas , Jaye Mathisen , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: de0 errors In-Reply-To: <19971027124929.22699@crh.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Charles Henrich wrote: > On the subject of Re: de0 errors, Tom stated: > > > > server. I wish FreeBSD had a top or systat function that showed network > > > traffic in K/Sec. > > > > It does: netstat -I de0 -w > > hey Cool! When was that added? Years ago. The only thing that is new is the bytes option. You used to have to ask for it with "-b", but now it is the default. > -Crh > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu > > http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 10:18:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11682 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:18:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11674 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:18:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14904; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014899; Mon Oct 27 11:16:02 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA23283; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:15:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710271815.LAA23283@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help with fstat? To: angio@angio.net (Dave Andersen) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:15:56 +0000 (GMT) Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710270258.TAA02224@meowy.angio.net> from "Dave Andersen" at Oct 26, 97 07:58:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > unless mmap() maps in on demand... but i think i'll be eating up all my > > address space... > > Pages that you mmap are only paged in on demand. The simple act of > mmapping a file doesn't cause it to be read in to memory. > > You're not going to eat up your address space with a few mmapped > files per process. Remember, you're dealing with a 32 bit address > space - you could map in gigabytes per process and not have to worry. > > Remember also that each process has its own virtual address space. > They can't "collide" with each other in some way. Each process could > mmap huge chunks and you'd never have to worry. Except if you linearly traverse the mapped file, and it's a big file. Then it will force almost all other clean pages out of core via LRU. So you can thrash the paging algorithm this way. But you can also thrash it (albiet less quickly) using reads. There used to be a MAP_SEQUENTIAL flag to get it to discard buffers after they had been accesed, instead of forcing more pages off the LRU, but BSD doesn't support this. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 10:41:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13371 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:41:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13363 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:41:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15171; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:41:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015149; Mon Oct 27 11:41:24 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24256; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:41:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710271841.LAA24256@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: When login class? To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:41:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971026143455.13913@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Oct 26, 97 02:34:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Am I correct in believing that the current login class concept was > introduced in 4.4BSD? Otherwise, where did it come from? The class field was introduced in 4.4, but the code that uses it was not. My pet theory is that the CSRG folks intended to do it, but had to spend the time replacing the damned-by-USL kernel pieces instead. The login.conf stuff was introduced in BSDI. The FreeBSD stuff is based on the BSDI man pages (published information) about the BSDI implementation. The biggest win (IMO) from login.conf is the ability to use things like SecureCard interfaces and retinal scanners, etc.. Of course, that's not implemented in FreeBSD; only the annoying resource restriction stuff. ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 10:44:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13669 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:44:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13609 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:44:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15470; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015466; Mon Oct 27 11:43:55 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24331; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:43:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710271843.LAA24331@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: a question about LKM To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:43:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199710270641.HAA03134@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Oct 27, 97 07:41:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am looking at how ot make my audio driver an LKM. > > I have seen some examples of LKMs but none of them uses interrupts. > As a consequence, I am a bit unclear on what actions should be done > at load time (and especially, at unload time) so that interrupts > are properly delivered. For the attach part i can probably figure > it out -- just do the standard attach() action -- but what for the > detach ? Look at the PCCARD code (it has to detach things as well). The PCI stuff is probably best for the attach. In effect, you implement a "probe on load". This is somewhat dangerous for non-PnP ISA cards, BTW. The code in this area needs to be more orthoganal, IMO. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 10:51:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14233 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14227 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12875; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:51:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971027135100.12106@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:51:00 -0500 From: Charles Henrich To: Stephen McKay Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Perils of login.conf (Was: fsck (2.2.5-RELEASE) large filesystems broken) References: <19971023004136.21792@crh.cl.msu.edu> <199710240723.RAA15535@ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19971024083642.18571@crh.cl.msu.edu> <199710250154.LAA02018@troll.dtir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199710250154.LAA02018@troll.dtir.qld.gov.au>; from Stephen McKay on Sat, Oct 25, 1997 at 11:54:11AM +1000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On the subject of Perils of login.conf (Was: fsck (2.2.5-RELEASE) large filesystems broken), Stephen McKay stated: > Ahem! Well, I wouldn't be using anything more dangerous than Nerf bats > myself, but I have been inconvenienced a couple times by login.conf. You just havent been bitten by this as hard as I was :) But okay, how about a nerf assault rifle? :) > There are some people who are very keen on it, and presumably it does > wonderful things for them. However, after some pain and a bit of > reflection, I think the defaults for everything should be pushed way up, > like the maximum that FreeBSD can take for all these knobs, and let those > that support hundreds or thousands of users wind them back to whatever > limits they wish to impose. > > If this was the case then regular users would have one less thing to worry > about and magazine reviewers who benchmark "out of the box" would get > sensible results. Those who really use login.conf to impose carefully > selected limits would be unaffected. Hear hear! That sounds like a perfect solution to me! -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 11:15:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16040 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16031 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 6843 invoked by uid 1001); 27 Oct 1997 19:15:00 +0000 (GMT) To: tom@sdf.com Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, matt@3am-software.com, mrcpu@cdsnet.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: de0 errors In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:42:52 -0800 (PST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:15:00 +0100 Message-ID: <6841.877979700@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > server. I wish FreeBSD had a top or systat function that showed network > > traffic in K/Sec. > > It does: netstat -I de0 -w Unfortunately, the byte count and the packet count are inconsistent if the interface is in promiscuous mode - in this case it looks like the byte count represents the "normal" traffic adressed directly to the machine, while the packet count represents *all* the traffic that is seen on the interface, whether it is for this machine or not. Here is a snapshot of netstat on a Fast Ethernet interface running nnstat: input (de6) output packets errs bytes packets errs bytes colls 20310 0 93115 0 0 0 0 21645 0 94452 0 0 0 0 21904 0 93558 0 0 0 0 18802 0 93293 0 0 0 0 18643 0 94048 0 0 0 0 18732 0 93220 0 0 0 0 The effect is easily reproducible. Start tcpdump (or similar) to force the interface into promiscuous mode, start netstat -w. Observe the byte and packet counts. Start ttcp between two other machines on the same segment, and watch how the packet count climbs to reflect the heavy ttcp traffic between the other machines, while the byte count doesn't. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 12:10:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20325 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20314 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:10:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghhicks@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA05581; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:08:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from atl-ga27-07.ix.netcom.com(206.214.125.39) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005567; Mon Oct 27 14:08:34 1997 Message-ID: <3454F3D9.88D5318C@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:04:41 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: wghhicks@ix.netcom.com Organization: TerraEarth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > Can someone fill me in on when you would want to use parity ram as opposed > to non-parity ram these days? If there was some anomaly in memory how > would freebsd handle it (is there a trap for parity error?) Here's the best I've been able to find @ www.dejanews.com: > From: tatosian@eng.pko.xxx.com > Re: Parity vs. ECC on HX chipset > Date: 1997/10/03 > > First, of the 72-pin SIMM types, there are 32-bit SIMMs, 36-bit "True Parity" > SIMMs, 32-bit "Fake Parity" SIMMs, and 36-bit "ECC" SIMMs. > > o 32-bit SIMMs: can't do (or even fake) parity or ECC operation. Can be > constructed using anything from a bagfull of "X1" parts through a pair of > "X16" DRAMs. > > o "True Parity" SIMMs: 32 bits of data, plus 4 parity bits. Each of the 4 CAS > lines on the SIMM *must* control 8 data bits (a byte) plus a parity bit in > order to operate correctly under parity mode, which requires "byte write" > support. > > While the data bits are now most commonly constructed using DRAMs that are 4, > 8, or 16 bits "wide", the parity bits must be constructed using either (4) > "X1" DRAMs, or a single "quad CAS" DRAM that is 4-bits wide. As the latter > parts are somewhat rare (not every memory manufacturer produces them) and > somewhat more costly than a standard "X4" part, not to mention that the 4 "X1" > implementation uses older, less dense generation parts, the 4 "X1" > implementation is the more common. > > This type of SIMM can obviously be used in parity mode, and can also be used > in ECC mode *if* the chipset activates all (4) CAS signals on every operation > to the SIMM (and if the motherboard routes those same CAS signals to the > correct SIMM pins). > > The name "True Parity" wouldn't be necessary, if it wasn't for the nefarious > > o "Fake Parity" SIMMs: provide only a 32-bit wide storage path to the DRAMs, > but include a (4) byte-parity generator that coughs up 4 parity bits from the > 32 databits when the SIMM is read by the system. > > Simply a forgettable piece of crap that unfortunately cost many people a > premium because they weren't aware of what they were getting. > > And finally, > > o ECC SIMM: This SIMM provides a unified 36-bit wide datapath that operates > with (logically) a single RAS signal and a single CAS signal. Ie: this SIMM > does *not* support byte-write operations, and therefore cannot be used on a > system running parity mode. While this SIMM can be constructed using any mix > of "X1" through "X32" parts, it is more commonly built using (9) "X4" parts. > > The ECC SIMM can be operated in ECC mode (obviously), and can also be operated > in non-ECC/non-parity mode - but only if the chipset won't attempt to perform > byte-write operations. Ie: the chipset must use READ-MODIFY-WRITE operations > (similar to those used in ECC mode) if anything less than the full longword > (32 bits) of data are to be changed. > > Hopefully the above illustrates the significant differences between two > different SIMMs that happen to provide 36 bit datapaths... > This thread also discussed that the configuration registers must be properly set up by BIOS to have ECC function properly on an HX motherboard. There was mention of some buggy BIOS's floating around which don't properly set the configuration registers although the screen prompt indicates that ECC is selected. Specific versions weren't indicated. HTH, Jerry Hicks jerry_hicks@bigfoot.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 12:11:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20432 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:11:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kryten.jamnet.reef.com (d145.isdn2.interaccess.com [207.208.1.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA20424 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:10:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from james@reef.com) Received: from reef.com (localhost.jamnet.reef.com [127.0.0.1]) by kryten.jamnet.reef.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA03814 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:10:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3454F51C.C37E37EB@reef.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:10:04 -0600 From: James Buszard-Welcher Organization: Silicon Reef, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Recovering Lost Inode? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry, not a FreeBSD *specific* question, but it could be... I'm not sure what would be the appropriate group. I'm sure that if someone know this, it is someone on this list. I had a daemon writing to a file... I then rm-ed the file, but the daemon still had the filehandle and was writing to it. Well... I killed the daemon, which had been writing to this invisible inode. Is there ANY way (fsdb, fsck, some great perl hack) to find out what this inode was and link it back into some directory so I can get at the file contents? -- James Buszard-Welcher | VOX 847.729.8600 | "It's not the stuff... Technical Director | FAX 847.729.1560 | it's the power to Silicon Reef, Inc. | PGR 800.418.0016 | *MAKE* the stuff." From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 12:20:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21673 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21654 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:20:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15744; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:20:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02166; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:20:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:20:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710272020.NAA02166@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a question about LKM In-Reply-To: <199710271843.LAA24331@usr04.primenet.com> References: <199710270641.HAA03134@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> <199710271843.LAA24331@usr04.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I am looking at how ot make my audio driver an LKM. > > > > I have seen some examples of LKMs but none of them uses interrupts. > > As a consequence, I am a bit unclear on what actions should be done > > at load time (and especially, at unload time) so that interrupts > > are properly delivered. For the attach part i can probably figure > > it out -- just do the standard attach() action -- but what for the > > detach ? > > Look at the PCCARD code (it has to detach things as well). It's full of races, but I don't think there is a way around given that 'detach' happens w/out any event signalling it's going to occur. Because of that, most of the stuff is left 'lying around' in case the kernel is in the middle of doing something. Also, most of the kernel doesn't allow 'giving back' resources. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 14:05:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA29953 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:05:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29941 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:05:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA28190; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:06:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA23895; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:06:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:06:31 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > more bits means more chance of error even if they are "error-correcting" > bits? > But greater chance of catching error... -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 14:22:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01195 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:22:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01158 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:21:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00985; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:25:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:25:44 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help with fstat? and improvement on FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <199710271815.LAA23283@usr04.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk that doesn't seem to be too hard to implement and could signifigantly speed up a LOT of things, would anyone want to tackle this problem? maybe someone could point me to where this code is located... i would like to try, i'm sure though, that someone with a bit more experiance would find it very easy to implement. in my opinion, many many things would gain a lot more speed if this algorithm was implement. -Alfred > > Remember also that each process has its own virtual address space. > > They can't "collide" with each other in some way. Each process could > > mmap huge chunks and you'd never have to worry. > > Except if you linearly traverse the mapped file, and it's a big file. > Then it will force almost all other clean pages out of core via LRU. > > So you can thrash the paging algorithm this way. > > But you can also thrash it (albiet less quickly) using reads. > > There used to be a MAP_SEQUENTIAL flag to get it to discard buffers > after they had been accesed, instead of forcing more pages off the > LRU, but BSD doesn't support this. 8-(. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 14:37:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA02000 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:37:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA01994 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:37:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA10525 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:37:30 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA02921; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:22:37 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199710272122.WAA02921@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? To: james@reef.com (James Buszard-Welcher) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:22:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3454F51C.C37E37EB@reef.com> from "James Buszard-Welcher" at Oct 27, 97 02:10:04 pm X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As James Buszard-Welcher wrote... > Sorry, not a FreeBSD *specific* question, but it could be... > I'm not sure what would be the appropriate group. I'm sure that > if someone know this, it is someone on this list. > > I had a daemon writing to a file... I then rm-ed the file, but the > daemon still had the filehandle and was writing to it. > > Well... I killed the daemon, which had been writing to this invisible > inode. > > Is there ANY way (fsdb, fsck, some great perl hack) to find out what > this inode was and link it back into some directory so I can get at > the file contents? wild guess: fsck ? _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' ------------------ Support your local daemons: run FreeBSD Unix -----Yoda From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 15:23:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05180 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:23:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05173 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:23:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mouth@ibm.net) Received: from slip129-37-195-101.nc.us.ibm.net (slip129-37-195-101.nc.us.ibm.net [129.37.195.101]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA83906; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:22:54 GMT From: mouth@ibm.net (John Kelly) To: "Kent S. Gordon" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 48 meg double fault moved to 64 meg in 2.2.5 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:24:16 GMT Message-ID: <34593010.34051797@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net> References: <199710271646.KAA11254@chess.inetspace.com> In-Reply-To: <199710271646.KAA11254@chess.inetspace.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA05174 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:46:07 -0600 (CST), "Kent S. Gordon" wrote: > > The problem does occur with no SCSI present -- just the > > motherboard and a video card. >What is the problem you are seeing with the Buslogic SCSI card? None. Perhaps the above would be better phrased "the problem still happens after removing Buslogic from the setup." John From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 15:27:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05428 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:27:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05417 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:27:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA14790; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:57:04 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971028095703.58858@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:57:03 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: James Buszard-Welcher Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? References: <3454F51C.C37E37EB@reef.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <3454F51C.C37E37EB@reef.com>; from James Buszard-Welcher on Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 02:10:04PM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 02:10:04PM -0600, James Buszard-Welcher wrote: > Sorry, not a FreeBSD *specific* question, but it could be... > I'm not sure what would be the appropriate group. I'm sure that > if someone know this, it is someone on this list. > > I had a daemon writing to a file... I then rm-ed the file, but the > daemon still had the filehandle and was writing to it. > > Well... I killed the daemon, which had been writing to this invisible > inode. > > Is there ANY way (fsdb, fsck, some great perl hack) to find out what > this inode was and link it back into some directory so I can get at > the file contents? Not after you stopped the daemon. Then the link count goes to 0 and the file is removed. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 15:53:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA07241 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:53:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from goof.com (goof.com [128.173.247.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA07220 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:53:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mmead@goof.com) Received: (qmail 10223 invoked by uid 10000); 27 Oct 1997 23:53:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19971027185336.32293@goof.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:53:36 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: amd and NIS maps: No source data for map amd.home Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi - I'm currently attempting to get amd to read an NIS (really Solaris 2.x NIS+ in NIS compat mode - yeah yeah, I know) map amd.home and apply it to /home. Unfortunately, I'm not able to get it to see the NIS map. I get the error "No source data for map amd.home". Does anyone know the proper fix to this problem? I'm positive my ypbind is bound to the server, as I can manually ypcat -k amd.home and see the amd /home map. I'm invoking amd like so: amd -a /.automount -y math.vt.edu -l syslog /home amd.home Any thoughts? Thanks in advance! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@goof.com http://www.goof.com/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 16:18:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08613 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08607 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA05822; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:17:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27708; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23766; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:17:32 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710280017.QAA23766@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:17:32 -0800 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug)" (Oct 25, 1:24am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Terry Lambert , Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) Cc: jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 25, 1:24am, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) } But say you have a processor emulator that gets invoked by an } execution class loader so that it can mmap a foreign binary } in its address space, and then run it. } } ,------------------. ,------------------. } | DEC Alpha binary | | DEC Alpha binary | } | regular process | | emulator process | } | | | ,--------------. | } | | | | x86 image | | } | | | | (Netscape) | | } | | | `--------------' | } `------------------' `------------------' } } You need to be able to open something with just "x" access to map } it so that a proces you own can "run" it. So you also want to } allow an open if you have execute access. I don't think administrators who remove "r" access to keep users from copying executables would like this, since the users could just switch to a copying program that uses mmap. I think it would be better to add a kernel hook so that the emulator could be registered as an interpreter for foreign binaries. The kernel could then open an fd and pass it to the emulator when the binary is execed. Something similar would allow you to remove the "r" permissions from shell scripts. } Does having only execute access keep you from reading a file? } } No. You can make it core. But that doesn't get you a copy of the text segment. You can probably play games with debuggers as well. In some environments it might not be acceptable to get even this much access, so it might make sense to allow the administrator to disable core file generation and the ability to attach a debugger if you don't have "r" access. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 16:36:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09835 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:36:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kryten.jamnet.reef.com (d145.isdn2.interaccess.com [207.208.1.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09827 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:36:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from james@reef.com) Received: from reef.com (localhost.jamnet.reef.com [127.0.0.1]) by kryten.jamnet.reef.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA04577; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:35:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3455334C.D2AD37F6@reef.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:35:24 -0600 From: James Buszard-Welcher Organization: Silicon Reef, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? References: <3454F51C.C37E37EB@reef.com> <19971028095703.58858@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the response. I'm sure it's too late now, with inode recycling, etc. However, if I had been unable to umount the filesystem... (we now enter the theoretical zone) *could* I have been able to use somekindof Norton's Utilities-esque package for UNIX which could check inodes and look for ones that were 'file starters', and maybe check the that if all of the inodes pointed to by that starter inode (it was big file so I excect a level or two of inode redirection) were still intact it could pull it back? Kinda like an 'un-delete' fsck? Ever hear of such a thing? Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 02:10:04PM -0600, James Buszard-Welcher wrote: > > I had a daemon writing to a file... I then rm-ed the file, but the > > daemon still had the filehandle and was writing to it. > > > > Well... I killed the daemon, which had been writing to this invisible > > inode. > > > > Is there ANY way (fsdb, fsck, some great perl hack) to find out what > > this inode was and link it back into some directory so I can get at > > the file contents? > > Not after you stopped the daemon. Then the link count goes to 0 and > the file is removed. > > Greg -- James Buszard-Welcher | VOX 847.729.8600 | "It's not the stuff... Technical Director | FAX 847.729.1560 | it's the power to Silicon Reef, Inc. | PGR 800.418.0016 | *MAKE* the stuff." From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 16:46:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10447 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:46:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10439 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:46:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA06227; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:46:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28225; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23849; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:46:03 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710280046.QAA23849@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:46:03 -0800 In-Reply-To: Charles Henrich "Re: de0 errors" (Oct 27, 9:12am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Charles Henrich , Don Lewis Subject: Re: de0 errors Cc: Matt Thomas , Jaye Mathisen , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 27, 9:12am, Charles Henrich wrote: } Subject: Re: de0 errors } On the subject of Re: de0 errors, Don Lewis stated: } } > On Oct 23, 7:51am, Matt Thomas wrote: } > } Subject: Re: de0 errors } > } At 12:57 AM 10/23/97 -0400, Charles Henrich wrote: } > } >After moving to 2.2.5-RELEASE im seeing: } > } > } > } >Oct 23 00:32:12 msunews /kernel: ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers } > } >Oct 23 00:35:45 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow } > } >(raising TX threshold to 96|256) } > } >Oct 23 00:36:01 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow } > } >(raising TX threshold to 8|512) } > } >Oct 23 00:37:41 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow } > } >(raising TX threshold to 1024) } > } >Oct 23 00:55:14 msunews /kernel: de0: abnormal interrupt: transmit underflow } > } >(switching to store-and-forward mode) } > } > } > } >Any ideas? Are these informational, or are they bad? } > } } > } they are informational. } > } > In the sense that everything is working, but if you're seeing transmit } > underflows even when the TX threshold has been set to 1024, then I suspect } > you'll have a real problem getting anywhere near full performance out } > of the card. } } Can you suggest any debugging tips for isolating and fixing this problem? A PCI bus analyzer could be useful if the problem is what I think it is. What processor and PCI chipset do you have? } Just using FTP between two hosts on the 100mbit net I see 2-3MB/sec and } receive at about half that. That's not very impressive. To eliminate the influence of disk I/O, you might want to test network throughput using ttcp or something similar. I'd recommend using ping to check for packet loss at the same time. You shouldn't see any packet loss if you're sending between two machines on the same network segment. } However this system is also a very busy news } server. This might affect FTP throughput if the disks are busy, but I don't think there should be too much effect on network throughput unless you're somehow managing to get that 100Mb network pretty full. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 17:18:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12569 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:18:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12550 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:18:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00495; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:44:21 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710280114.LAA00495@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:31:01 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:44:19 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > don't want to look a gift answer in the mouth but i don't think this is a > good idea, i'm working on a distributed system for transfering files > across the internet. the system is supposed to be able to manage a large > load of file transfers over TCP. On the contrary, it's an *excellent* idea. > if i mmap tons of files across many processes i think i will cause a large > amount of unnessesary paging, as most of the files will be in the > 200k-5meg range this will be too much laod on the system. > > unless mmap() maps in on demand... but i think i'll be eating up all my > address space... mmap() just associates a region of your address space with the file; until you actually reference it, you won't get any paging activity. As for eating up your address space, if you're only dealing with little files like you describe you won't have any trouble at all. I'm regularly mapping files in the 100M range, and it beats the hell outa reading them in record by record. > isn't fstat supposed to be what i'm looking for? No. > i don't want to exhaust the virtual memory on the machine, just get > optimal transfers. You won't exhaust virtual memory; mmapped regions are backed by the file, not by swap. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 17:36:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13971 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:36:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13963 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:36:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA05574; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:36:18 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710280136.UAA05574@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: <199710271815.LAA23283@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 27, 97 06:15:56 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:36:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > > unless mmap() maps in on demand... but i think i'll be eating up all my > > > address space... > > > > Pages that you mmap are only paged in on demand. The simple act of > > mmapping a file doesn't cause it to be read in to memory. > > > > You're not going to eat up your address space with a few mmapped > > files per process. Remember, you're dealing with a 32 bit address > > space - you could map in gigabytes per process and not have to worry. > > > > Remember also that each process has its own virtual address space. > > They can't "collide" with each other in some way. Each process could > > mmap huge chunks and you'd never have to worry. > > Except if you linearly traverse the mapped file, and it's a big file. > Then it will force almost all other clean pages out of core via LRU. > > So you can thrash the paging algorithm this way. > > But you can also thrash it (albiet less quickly) using reads. > > There used to be a MAP_SEQUENTIAL flag to get it to discard buffers > after they had been accesed, instead of forcing more pages off the > LRU, but BSD doesn't support this. 8-(. > > Try madvise(2). It has a MADV_SEQUENTIAL. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 17:53:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA14896 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:53:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14887 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:53:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01235; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:57:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:57:50 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: <199710280114.LAA00495@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk thank you, i just wasn't sure of a way to go at this, but now mmap seems awesome. On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > don't want to look a gift answer in the mouth but i don't think this is a > > good idea, i'm working on a distributed system for transfering files > > across the internet. the system is supposed to be able to manage a large > > load of file transfers over TCP. > > On the contrary, it's an *excellent* idea. > > > if i mmap tons of files across many processes i think i will cause a large > > amount of unnessesary paging, as most of the files will be in the > > 200k-5meg range this will be too much laod on the system. > > > > unless mmap() maps in on demand... but i think i'll be eating up all my > > address space... > > mmap() just associates a region of your address space with the file; > until you actually reference it, you won't get any paging activity. > > As for eating up your address space, if you're only dealing with little > files like you describe you won't have any trouble at all. I'm > regularly mapping files in the 100M range, and it beats the hell outa > reading them in record by record. > > > isn't fstat supposed to be what i'm looking for? > > No. > > > i don't want to exhaust the virtual memory on the machine, just get > > optimal transfers. > > You won't exhaust virtual memory; mmapped regions are backed by the > file, not by swap. > > mike > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 18:13:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15999 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:13:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15993 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00972; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:39:29 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710280209.MAA00972@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Christoph Kukulies cc: Peter Dufault , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:11:39 BST." <19971027151139.61831@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:39:29 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [memory-mapped peripheral's space appears to be cached] > There is a 80186 on the board which communicates > over some semaphores in the memory region with the outside world. > You write a command into the location and that location must read > as 0000 or FFFF if the board is ready or not resp.. Actually it's quite > weird - I have the source of a DOS program which communicates with > the board. (This is written for Borlandc/16 bit) Does the sample source attempt to invalidate the processor's cache for the region? Is it possible that your BIOS is set to consider the address range occupied by the card as cacheable? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 18:26:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA16551 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:26:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16540 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:26:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA01275 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:31:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:31:26 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? In-Reply-To: <3455334C.D2AD37F6@reef.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i've always wondered why when a file was deleted there was an intelegent way of moving it to a volitile directory where it could be overwritten at any time, but if moved out of that dir it would be marked non-volitile again.... (maybe i've used win95 once too many...) -Alfred On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, James Buszard-Welcher wrote: > Thanks for the response. I'm sure it's too late now, with inode > recycling, etc. However, if I had been unable to umount the > filesystem... (we now enter the theoretical zone) > *could* I have been able to use somekindof Norton's Utilities-esque > package for UNIX which could check inodes and look for ones that > were 'file starters', and maybe check the that if all of the inodes > pointed to by that starter inode (it was big file so I excect > a level or two of inode redirection) were still intact it could > pull it back? Kinda like an 'un-delete' fsck? Ever hear of > such a thing? > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 02:10:04PM -0600, James Buszard-Welcher wrote: > > > I had a daemon writing to a file... I then rm-ed the file, but the > > > daemon still had the filehandle and was writing to it. > > > > > > Well... I killed the daemon, which had been writing to this invisible > > > inode. > > > > > > Is there ANY way (fsdb, fsck, some great perl hack) to find out what > > > this inode was and link it back into some directory so I can get at > > > the file contents? > > > > Not after you stopped the daemon. Then the link count goes to 0 and > > the file is removed. > > > > Greg > > -- > James Buszard-Welcher | VOX 847.729.8600 | "It's not the stuff... > Technical Director | FAX 847.729.1560 | it's the power to > Silicon Reef, Inc. | PGR 800.418.0016 | *MAKE* the stuff." > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 18:31:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA16820 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16814 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA08979 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01662 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:47:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id VAA05209 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:37:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710280237.VAA05209@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: My 2.2.5 installation report... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm happy to once again report that SL/IP install (from a direct null-modem connection) is working wonderfully with 2.2.5-RELEASE. As I do with every release, I've tested an install over a direct SL/IP connection with a laptop. I completely wipe the disk and install everything I need (mostly generic binaries with DES and X11.) I've just wiped and re-installed one of my laptops and am not restoring everything over a SL/IP connection. Another batch of good work for the install guys (Jordan?) That's two in a row! :-) - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 18:36:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17093 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:36:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17084 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:36:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id CAA01892 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:35:33 GMT Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:35:33 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: [?] ISP's in France Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any FreeBSDers in France around? I would like info on ISP's that do 128K to T1. Please remove hackers from the cc and reply privately to michaelh@cet.co.jp. Regards, Mike Hancock -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 18:41:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17564 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:41:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17526 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:41:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA10450 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:41:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01683 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:57:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id VAA05306 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:47:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:47:04 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710280247.VAA05306@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: sio silo overflows on a P75 @ 38400 baud? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was just wondering - should it be possible, at 38400 baud, in multi-user mode, but nothing else really going on; to get silo overflows on a P75 with 16550 (clone?) UARTs? I'm doing a SL/IP connection and sending the output of dd'ing a tape back to the P75 system for un-tarring. The sending system is a P200 (running FreeBSD 2.2-970510.) I'm getting these silo overflows with 2.2.5. I'm hoping someone can whip out some figures on the interrupt latency to suggest that a P75 should be able to deal with receiving 38400... This could, of course, be an artifact of some device holding the bus too long. The P75 machine is a laptop with a IDE drive (to which I'm writting) and 8 meg of memory; again, running 2.2.5-RELEASE. - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 19:25:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA20024 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:25:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19978 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:25:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01904; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:30:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:30:35 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sio silo overflows on a P75 @ 38400 baud? In-Reply-To: <199710280247.VAA05306@lakes.dignus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk you are quite possbily over loading your system with a combination of writes and swapping (8megs of ram? ewwww) if disk activity is constant it's quite possible to reach a load of 9.0+ i did while doing a buildworld and making my kernel -j8... it was at like 9.6+ at times... pretty cool as X kept freezing for several seconds at a time... On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > I was just wondering - should it be possible, at 38400 baud, > in multi-user mode, but nothing else really going on; to get > silo overflows on a P75 with 16550 (clone?) UARTs? > > I'm doing a SL/IP connection and sending the output of > dd'ing a tape back to the P75 system for un-tarring. The > sending system is a P200 (running FreeBSD 2.2-970510.) > > I'm getting these silo overflows with 2.2.5. > > I'm hoping someone can whip out some figures on the > interrupt latency to suggest that a P75 should be able > to deal with receiving 38400... > > This could, of course, be an artifact of some device > holding the bus too long. The P75 machine is a laptop > with a IDE drive (to which I'm writting) and 8 meg of memory; > again, running 2.2.5-RELEASE. > > - Thanks - > - Dave Rivers - > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 20:00:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22291 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:00:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22277 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:00:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA17784; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:58:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd017781; Tue Oct 28 03:58:32 1997 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:56:54 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Michael Hancock cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [?] ISP's in France In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Actually I'm more interested in getting someone to try test some equipment in JAPAN!! :) On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Michael Hancock wrote: > Any FreeBSDers in France around? I would like info on ISP's that do 128K > to T1. > > Please remove hackers from the cc and reply privately to > michaelh@cet.co.jp. > > Regards, > > > Mike Hancock > > -- > michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp > CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, > Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 20:03:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22473 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:03:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22464 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:03:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14244; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:03:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd014227; Mon Oct 27 21:03:18 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA05753; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:03:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710280403.VAA05753@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:03:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alfred Perlstein" at Oct 27, 97 10:31:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > i've always wondered why when a file was deleted there was an intelegent > way of moving it to a volatile directory where it could be overwritten at > any time, but if moved out of that dir it would be marked non-volitile > again.... Yes, but it's best implemented as a stacking layer. 8-). You could also set a "deleted" bit (there's an extra bit in the flags field in the directory entry -- or was), and not return it on search based on a mount option. The "purge" issue is a little more complex. I used a POSIX namespace escape to implement this functionality in an attributed FS I wrote for NetWare. Without the escape, deleted files were hidden; with it, they were visibile. An unlink of a visible file made it invisibile, and an unlink of an invisible file actually removed it. You would want to make /tmp and probably several other places immune from deletes like this. You can get a similar effect to VMS versions using another namespace escape; stacking name space escapes, anyone? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 20:08:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22725 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:08:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22720 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:08:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14680; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd014659; Mon Oct 27 21:08:06 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA05972; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:08:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710280408.VAA05972@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:08:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710280017.QAA23766@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> from "Don Lewis" at Oct 27, 97 04:17:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > } You need to be able to open something with just "x" access to map > } it so that a proces you own can "run" it. So you also want to > } allow an open if you have execute access. > > I don't think administrators who remove "r" access to keep users > from copying executables would like this, since the users could > just switch to a copying program that uses mmap. A user can just ctrl-\ the thing and get a core and "undump" it now. If it's a net program, they can just download it. > I think it would be better to add a kernel hook so that the emulator > could be registered as an interpreter for foreign binaries. The > kernel could then open an fd and pass it to the emulator when the > binary is execed. Something similar would allow you to remove the > "r" permissions from shell scripts. This route leads to chaos. Consider a foreign binary which is suid; you would end up with the same issues that you would get if SUID shell scripts worked (in effect, an emulator that worked this way would be a "different kind of shell interpreter with the foreigh binary instead of '#!' as the 'magic number'" -- this would be bad). > } Does having only execute access keep you from reading a file? > } > } No. You can make it core. > > But that doesn't get you a copy of the text segment. You can probably > play games with debuggers as well. > > In some environments it might not be acceptable to get even this much > access, so it might make sense to allow the administrator to disable > core file generation and the ability to attach a debugger if you don't > have "r" access. Well, that's the next logical paranoid step, of course... ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 20:10:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22880 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:10:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22875 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14934; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:10:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd014903; Mon Oct 27 21:10:36 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA06144; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:10:31 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710280410.VAA06144@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help with fstat? To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:10:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710280136.UAA05574@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Oct 27, 97 08:36:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There used to be a MAP_SEQUENTIAL flag to get it to discard buffers > > after they had been accesed, instead of forcing more pages off the > > LRU, but BSD doesn't support this. 8-(. > > > > > Try madvise(2). It has a MADV_SEQUENTIAL. Is this supposed to cause it to discard page A after faulting in page B on the assumption A will not be rereferenced? I didn't think that it did this in -current... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 20:22:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23541 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23524 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:22:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id EAA02690; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:21:24 GMT Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:21:24 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Julian Elischer cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [?] ISP's in France In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We can talk off list. I'm looking for an ISP in France to get a 20 person office on the net. I've got a list, but I want to hear personal experiences. Please reply to michaelh@cet.co.jp only. Regards, Mike Hancock On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > Actually I'm more interested in getting someone to try test some equipment > in JAPAN!! :) > > > On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Michael Hancock wrote: > > > Any FreeBSDers in France around? I would like info on ISP's that do 128K > > to T1. > > > > Please remove hackers from the cc and reply privately to > > michaelh@cet.co.jp. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Mike Hancock > > > > -- > > michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp > > CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, > > Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 > > > > > -- michaelh@cet.co.jp http://www.cet.co.jp CET Inc., Daiichi Kasuya BLDG 8F 2-5-12, Higashi Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo 105 Japan Tel: +81-3-3437-1761 Fax: +81-3-3437-1766 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 20:23:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23629 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:23:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23623 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:23:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA02123; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:22:51 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710280422.XAA02123@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: <199710280410.VAA06144@usr08.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 28, 97 04:10:31 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:22:50 -0500 (EST) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > > There used to be a MAP_SEQUENTIAL flag to get it to discard buffers > > > after they had been accesed, instead of forcing more pages off the > > > LRU, but BSD doesn't support this. 8-(. > > > > > > > > Try madvise(2). It has a MADV_SEQUENTIAL. > > Is this supposed to cause it to discard page A after faulting in page B > on the assumption A will not be rereferenced? > > I didn't think that it did this in -current... > It doesn't 'discard', but should either deactivate or cache the page. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 20:26:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23876 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:26:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23871 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:26:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (vex-s.isi.edu [128.9.192.240]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA24133; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:26:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710280426.UAA24133@tnt.isi.edu> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:31:26 EST." X-Url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:26:38 -0800 From: Ted Faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Alfred Perlstein wrote: >i've always wondered why when a file was deleted there was an intelegent >way of moving it to a volitile directory where it could be overwritten at >any time, but if moved out of that dir it would be marked non-volitile >again.... Was that intended as "intelligent" or "inelegant"? :-) >(maybe i've used win95 once too many...) I won't bore you with the short scripts that provide this behavior on UNIX. If that's the file deletion paradigm that you like, it's easy to do... "UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things." -- Doug Gwyn - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Faber faber@isi.edu USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNFVpfYb4eisfQ5rpAQHnXAP8CtMVVlaWuXg2cBjGixxKTsEaBsoEda1K qUbYRhJ9xTlLxluAVPYbO+psK9mt7L/5rBd3C1MMI6oH3hBClouSyUJyDFZmnb/3 SnAi3txlyM9C2trfplqvZoWj15WIXlG7vCKExdQLw2seMAIpbUl4HEUjHO284InB pIo801N1OLw= =An0A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 21:01:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA26129 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:01:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26114 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:01:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA00161; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:30:59 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971028153059.20678@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:30:59 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: James Buszard-Welcher Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? References: <3454F51C.C37E37EB@reef.com> <19971028095703.58858@lemis.com> <3455334C.D2AD37F6@reef.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <3455334C.D2AD37F6@reef.com>; from James Buszard-Welcher on Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 06:35:24PM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 06:35:24PM -0600, James Buszard-Welcher wrote: > Thanks for the response. I'm sure it's too late now, with inode > recycling, etc. However, if I had been unable to umount the > filesystem... (we now enter the theoretical zone) > *could* I have been able to use somekindof Norton's Utilities-esque > package for UNIX which could check inodes and look for ones that > were 'file starters', and maybe check the that if all of the inodes > pointed to by that starter inode (it was big file so I excect > a level or two of inode redirection) were still intact it could > pull it back? Kinda like an 'un-delete' fsck? Ever hear of > such a thing? Good question. I don't have a good answer. The first big problem is identifying the inode. You could have literally millions to check. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 21:06:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA26304 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:06:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26299 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:06:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgreco@solaria.sol.net) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA13974 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:06:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id XAA03547; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:05:57 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199710280505.XAA03547@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Threads under FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:05:54 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Having been only peripherally reading the FreeBSD lists for the past half a year or so, I was looking to see if any progress had been made on threads support. I've seen the AIO changes and they look promising, but I was wondering how much further things had progressed. I'm seriously examining the possibilty of running something like Cyclone from Highwind Software, for which threads are a requirement. Due to the I/O intensive nature of such a beast, the old pthreads stuff probably is not up to the challenge. Any recent developments? ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 23:01:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01951 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:01:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from meowy.angio.net (meowy.angio.net [206.197.119.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01946 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:00:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from angio@meowy.angio.net) Received: from meowy.angio.net (localhost.angio.net [127.0.0.1]) by meowy.angio.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06875; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:00:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710280700.AAA06875@meowy.angio.net> To: Terry Lambert cc: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis), jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:08:00 GMT." <199710280408.VAA05972@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:00:21 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't think administrators who remove "r" access to keep users > > from copying executables would like this, since the users could > > just switch to a copying program that uses mmap. > > A user can just ctrl-\ the thing and get a core and "undump" it now. > > If it's a net program, they can just download it. In reverse order: a) You'd most commonly do this to a program you wrote yourself to protect it from exploitation and/or examination, not for something you got off the net. b) Setuid programs haven't dumped core since the ftpd problem a while ago. > > In some environments it might not be acceptable to get even this much > > access, so it might make sense to allow the administrator to disable > > core file generation and the ability to attach a debugger if you don't > > have "r" access. > > Well, that's the next logical paranoid step, of course... ;-). meowy /tmp >> gdb ./setuidme ... GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), ./setuidme: Permission denied. (gdb) -Dave From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 23:14:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02553 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:14:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02544 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:14:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z14) with ESMTP id IAA00074; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:14:33 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id IAA07569; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:27:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971028082704.21011@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:27:05 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies To: Mike Smith Cc: Christoph Kukulies , Peter Dufault , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem References: <19971027151139.61831@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <199710280209.MAA00972@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199710280209.MAA00972@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 12:39:29PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 12:39:29PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > [memory-mapped peripheral's space appears to be cached] > > There is a 80186 on the board which communicates > > over some semaphores in the memory region with the outside world. > > You write a command into the location and that location must read > > as 0000 or FFFF if the board is ready or not resp.. Actually it's quite > > weird - I have the source of a DOS program which communicates with > > the board. (This is written for Borlandc/16 bit) > > Does the sample source attempt to invalidate the processor's cache for > the region? What does that mean? The sample source, you mean the vendors 16 bit program? It writes something to e.g. 0xca000 and reads back. If it reads the same value back it has written into it the sample program assumes it is not the semaphore region because reading back from that region would return a 0000 or ffff only (although something different (a command, e.g. 0x0103) is written into it. > > Is it possible that your BIOS is set to consider the address range > occupied by the card as cacheable? I was thinking of that too and checked it. I can find video shadow ram but that's not what is meant by 'cacheable'. I will look into the BIOS settings again for that. The portion of code behaves correctly when executed in the driver but executed in the user process (being root) it behaves differently. (accessing the memory region mapped by the driver). > > mike > -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 23:33:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA03554 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:33:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (mail-gw.utimaco.co.at [195.96.28.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA03543 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:33:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA11117 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:22:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from wshpux.utimaco.co.at(10.0.0.18) by safeconcept via smap (V2.0) id xma011114; Tue, 28 Oct 97 08:22:08 +0100 Message-ID: <345594A5.F3E0C8BA@utimaco.co.at> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:30:45 +0100 From: Michael Schuster Organization: Utimaco Safe Concept GmbH., Linz, Austria X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.01 9000/715) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk James Buszard-Welcher wrote: >... (we now enter the theoretical zone) > *could* I have been able to use somekindof Norton's Utilities-esque > package for UNIX which could check inodes and look for ones that > were 'file starters', and maybe check the that if all of the inodes > pointed to by that starter inode (it was big file so I excect > a level or two of inode redirection) were still intact it could > pull it back? Kinda like an 'un-delete' fsck? Ever hear of > such a thing? >From my scanty knowledge of Unix File systems, there's a slight correction necessary here: Any inode is "starter" inode; what's referred to by the indirect pointers (sorry if the name isn't the correct one) are data blocks containing pointers to data blocks which in turn contain either "real" data or again pointers to other data blocks (depending on whether they're pointed at by single, double or triple [are they used in FreeBSD?] redirection pointers in the inode); they don't contain any inode specific things (like permission bits, etc.). Another thing: inodes are reused as soon as they are freed (I don't know by what policy - any pointers where to look?). So finding an "intact" inode needn't mean that that's the file you need. Interpreting arbitrary free data blocks as "pointed to by indirection pointers" in order to reconstruct a deleted file is probably a very hard problem. Putting aside the high probability that one of the file blocks (not the inode) will be reused as soon as the file is rm'ed (you're in a multitasking environment, remember), the question remains whether freed data blocks are cleared or, in the case of inodes, marked as freed/unused (they're in a list of freed inodes, aren't they?). So, back to your question: you could alias/rewrite /bin/rm to mv your file to /saved/files/here and have a cron script deleting files in there older than a week, e.g. Just my 2 bits. Any corrections/updates/etc. very welcome!! Michael -- Michael Schuster Utimaco Safe Concept GmbH. | Tel: +43 732 655755 41 Europaplatz 6 | Fax: +43 732 655755 5 A-4020 Linz Austria | email: Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 27 23:40:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA04118 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:40:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04108 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:40:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01858; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:06:24 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710280736.SAA01858@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Christoph Kukulies cc: Mike Smith , Peter Dufault , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:27:05 BST." <19971028082704.21011@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:06:24 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The portion of code behaves correctly when executed in the > driver but executed in the user process (being root) it behaves > differently. (accessing the memory region mapped by the driver). Ah, now I understand. I think you said this before. Can you show us how you are mapping, and then accessing the device? It sounds like you've got something confused in either the driver or the application, as the memory region itself is OK. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 00:39:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07760 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:39:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07745 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z14) with ESMTP id JAA01297; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:39:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id JAA07939; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:51:47 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971028095146.58382@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:51:46 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies To: Mike Smith Cc: Christoph Kukulies , Peter Dufault , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem References: <19971028082704.21011@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <199710280736.SAA01858@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199710280736.SAA01858@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 06:06:24PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 06:06:24PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > The portion of code behaves correctly when executed in the > > driver but executed in the user process (being root) it behaves > > differently. (accessing the memory region mapped by the driver). > > Ah, now I understand. I think you said this before. > > Can you show us how you are mapping, and then accessing the device? > It sounds like you've got something confused in either the driver or > the application, as the memory region itself is OK. I've uploaded the following programs to my home account on freefall: (Uploading into ~ftp/incoming seems to be barred now though I was able to create a directory in there :) freefall:~kuku/ POW kernel config file if_can.c /sys/i386/isa/if_can.c - the ISA driver for the interface can16boo.c the user program portion of the failing section. look for XXX can16mod.c the user space mapping of the ISA memory > > mike > -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 00:42:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08000 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:42:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07991 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:42:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22894; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd022892; Tue Oct 28 08:39:28 1997 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:37:48 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Palle Girgensohn cc: john@helium.vapornet.com, jk@wspout.com, ab@wspout.com, csg@wintek.com, Andre Albsmeier , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: try this atalk patch (for /sys/netatalk) In-Reply-To: <3453E3C4.EBD2EA0D@partitur.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have made some patches to try solve some probelms seen in FreeBSD with some recent fixes and versions. they are: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/atalk.diff.3.0 and ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/atalk.diff.2.2 for 3.0 and 2.2.5 respectively. If you are running netatalk, could you try these, whether or not you are having problems? If they help, I'll commit them and add them to the 2.2.5 erratum directory julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 01:07:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09091 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:07:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09084 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:07:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z14) with ESMTP id KAA02138; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:06:31 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA08050; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:19:11 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971028101911.51533@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:19:11 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies To: Mike Smith Cc: Christoph Kukulies , Peter Dufault , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem References: <19971028082704.21011@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <199710280736.SAA01858@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199710280736.SAA01858@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 06:06:24PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 06:06:24PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > The portion of code behaves correctly when executed in the > > driver but executed in the user process (being root) it behaves > > differently. (accessing the memory region mapped by the driver). > > Ah, now I understand. I think you said this before. It works! I had to add a volatile to the memory pointer in the user program (Jonas Olson already advised me to do so). Thanks to all. > > Can you show us how you are mapping, and then accessing the device? > It sounds like you've got something confused in either the driver or > the application, as the memory region itself is OK. > > mike > -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 01:38:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA10650 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:38:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from frodo.epigram.com ([199.2.31.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA10643 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:38:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmo@epigram.com) Received: from epigram.com (frodo.epigram.com [10.100.100.10]) by frodo.epigram.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15264; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:37:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3455B267.FBC7DD67@epigram.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:37:44 -0800 From: "Guillermo A. Loyola" Organization: Epigram, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christoph Kukulies CC: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem References: <199710271231.NAA03303@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <199710271303.IAA24466@hda.hda.com> <19971027151139.61831@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Christoph Kukulies wrote: > The ISA mapped memory is a dual ported RAM which is > controlled by the on board CPU on one end and the, > user process on the other end. Writing something > into the ISA memory should not result in reading > the same back from it. But the fact of the matter is > that I read back what I'v written into it and this > seems to me as if the memory is cached. > > I tried a mlock call on the mmapped region but this > seems to fail in the user process. As pointed by Peter, it is not locking that you need. What is needed is a way to map the memory un-cached. The bad news is that there does not seem to be any interface to do that at user level. Worse yet, the interface for drivers to do it pmap_mapdev() claims to make the mapping non-cached in the comment, but the code does not seem to be doing it. The non-cached bits are defined in pmap.h: i386/include/pmap.h:75:#define PG_N (PG_NC_PWT|PG_NC_PCD) /* Non-cacheable */ but are only used in machdep.c when probing memory. Questions for FreeBSD hackers: 1) Shouldn't the line that sets the ptes in pmap_mapdev read: *pte = pa | PG_RW | PG_N | PG_V; instead of *pte = pa | PG_RW | PG_V; ? 2) WOuld it be reasonalbe to add a new flag to mmap to allow specification of uncached mappings? and on a semi-related topic: 3) It seems that the offset in the mmap system call, which is an off_t (i.e. long long) is re-cast into an unsigned int for devices in dev_pager_alloc(), before calling the device's mmap routine. I guess devices are not expected to have more than 32 bits of address space, but the memory device further restricts the range by declaring its "off" argument as an int! Any reason why this shouldn't be an unsigned? Its use (at least in the case of real memory) is to pass it to i386_btop which expects an unsigned. The relation with the current topic is that PCI BIOS like to allocate memory resources at the very end of the address space, so to map some memory on a PCI card (at say 0xff9ff000) all 32 bits are needed. TIA Gmo. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 02:27:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA12927 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:27:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (bJ/ByRUjPKUpYxuK/GVjNAtkCv5lczTl@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA12920 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:27:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([lSb+sQqe1dwEYK5zR0z/3Qt/Fr2qmEND]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xQ8rw-00049Q-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:27:28 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xQ8rs-00007f-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:27:24 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:27:23 +0000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Loading code from userland Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I was wondering how I can load code from user-land into the kernel in a manner similar to dlopen() and dlsym()? For example, if I had an encrypted file system then I might want to allow the user to load their own encryption module which defined a set of operations such as initialise(), encrypt_block(), decrypt_block() etc. I think this can be achieved using lkm's - is this correct? I was thinking that the module would call a function in the main body of the encrypted file system code to pass it an array of entry points into the module. Finally, can lkm's be compiled completely separately from the kernel or are they specific to a particular kernel configuration? Many thanks, Niall Smart From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 02:36:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA13429 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:36:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA13424 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:36:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12019; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:36:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710281036.CAA12019@implode.root.com> To: "Guillermo A. Loyola" cc: Christoph Kukulies , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:37:44 PST." <3455B267.FBC7DD67@epigram.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:36:27 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Worse yet, the interface for drivers to do it pmap_mapdev() >claims to make the mapping non-cached in the comment, but the code >does not seem to be doing it. The non-cached bits are defined in >pmap.h: > >i386/include/pmap.h:75:#define PG_N (PG_NC_PWT|PG_NC_PCD) /* Non-cacheable */ > >but are only used in machdep.c when probing memory. > >Questions for FreeBSD hackers: > >1) Shouldn't the line that sets the ptes in pmap_mapdev read: > *pte = pa | PG_RW | PG_N | PG_V; > > instead of > *pte = pa | PG_RW | PG_V; > ? > >2) WOuld it be reasonalbe to add a new flag to mmap to allow > specification of uncached mappings? The code used to set the no-cache flags, but I changed it to do a normal mapping after seeing relibility problems with certain memory mapped devices (I suspect this was caused by PWT rather than PCD). The cachability is normally determined by chipset settings and the page table flags are not needed to disable it for non-RAM areas of the address space. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 02:50:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA14033 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:50:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA14025 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:50:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA10138; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07475; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:47:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA25242; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:47:17 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710281047.CAA25242@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:47:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug)" (Oct 28, 4:08am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Terry Lambert , Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) Cc: jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 28, 4:08am, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) } > I don't think administrators who remove "r" access to keep users } > from copying executables would like this, since the users could } > just switch to a copying program that uses mmap. } } A user can just ctrl-\ the thing and get a core and "undump" it now. At least in FreeBSD that doesn't seem to get them a copy of the text segment which would seem to diminish the usefulness of the core file. } If it's a net program, they can just download it. Yes, but I was thinking more of commercial-ware with license restrictions on copying. } > I think it would be better to add a kernel hook so that the emulator } > could be registered as an interpreter for foreign binaries. The } > kernel could then open an fd and pass it to the emulator when the } > binary is execed. Something similar would allow you to remove the } > "r" permissions from shell scripts. } } This route leads to chaos. Consider a foreign binary which is suid; } you would end up with the same issues that you would get if SUID shell } scripts worked (in effect, an emulator that worked this way would be } a "different kind of shell interpreter with the foreigh binary instead } of '#!' as the 'magic number'" -- this would be bad). The biggest problem with suid scripts is the race condition between the kernel check to see if the script is suid and the interpreter opening the script, which gives a cracker the opportunity to change the symlink to point to some evil but not suid script that he wishes to execute with inappropriate privileges. This race condition is eliminated if the kernel opens the script file and points the interpreter at /dev/fd/whatever instead of the script file (or you can use the strategy of suidperl). Of course you should give the administrator a knob to completely disable suid scripts and foreign binaries. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 03:04:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14859 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14848 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA04131; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13251; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:21:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id GAA06120; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:10:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:10:33 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710281110.GAA06120@lakes.dignus.com> To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: sio silo overflows on a P75 @ 38400 baud? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > you are quite possbily over loading your system with a combination of > writes and swapping (8megs of ram? ewwww) Hmm... good point. > > if disk activity is constant it's quite possible to reach a load of 9.0+ > i did while doing a buildworld and making my kernel -j8... it was at like > 9.6+ at times... pretty cool as X kept freezing for several seconds at a > time... But - the disk activity isn't constant; it's no where near that (being a little twiddle about every 13 seconds). In fact, uptime shows my load average as 7:02AM up 8:52, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 So, I don't believe that's the culprit. In the span of this 8:52 hours, though, I've only seen 3 silo overflows... So, the issue appears to be intermittent... (which makes it more aggravating... :-) ) - Dave Rivers - > > On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > > > I was just wondering - should it be possible, at 38400 baud, > > in multi-user mode, but nothing else really going on; to get > > silo overflows on a P75 with 16550 (clone?) UARTs? > > > > I'm doing a SL/IP connection and sending the output of > > dd'ing a tape back to the P75 system for un-tarring. The > > sending system is a P200 (running FreeBSD 2.2-970510.) > > > > I'm getting these silo overflows with 2.2.5. > > > > I'm hoping someone can whip out some figures on the > > interrupt latency to suggest that a P75 should be able > > to deal with receiving 38400... > > > > This could, of course, be an artifact of some device > > holding the bus too long. The P75 machine is a laptop > > with a IDE drive (to which I'm writting) and 8 meg of memory; > > again, running 2.2.5-RELEASE. > > > > - Thanks - > > - Dave Rivers - > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 03:06:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14952 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:06:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14945 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:06:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA10220; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:06:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA07759; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA25277; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:06:45 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710281106.DAA25277@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:06:45 -0800 In-Reply-To: Dave Andersen "Re: help with fstat?" (Oct 26, 7:58pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Dave Andersen , Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: help with fstat? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 26, 7:58pm, Dave Andersen wrote: } Subject: Re: help with fstat? } > i don't want to exhaust the virtual memory on the machine, just get } > optimal transfers. } } mmap will give you optimal transfers since you won't have the } additional overhead of additional memory copies inside your machine. Actually it really depends on the OS. There's no reason the OS can't avoid memory to memory copies when reading a file if you use a page aligned buffer and read multiples of the page size. The kernel can just fiddle with the page table for the process to map pages from the buffer cache into the user space with the copy-on-write flag set. If the kernel is smart enough to detect that the process is doing sequential reads and the process is consuming the data more slowly that it can be read from disk, it may be possible for the kernel to perform readahead so that it always has the next chunk of data from the file loaded into the buffer cache before the process asks for it so that the process never blocks waiting for the disk. One variation I've seen DMAs data directly from the disk into user space on large enough requests, bypassing the buffer cache. Another doesn't actually copy the data into user space during the read() call, but page faults it in as the buffer is accessed. If you mmap the file, the process may block each time a new page is accessed to allow that page to be faulted in from the disk. Of course the kernel may still be able to do readahead to avoid blocking the process if the kernel is able to detect that the process is accessing the pages sequentually. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 03:08:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA15047 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA15039 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:08:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA04337 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13257 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:25:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id GAA06159 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:14:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710281114.GAA06159@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: More on silo overflows... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think I've found the association that causes my silo overflows at 38400 on a P75. It seems that everytime I use syscons' screen-flipping feature to bounce to another virtual screen - I get a silo overflow. Perhaps this points the suspicious finger at syscons? Is it disabling interrupts for some long period of time? Just an observation... - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 03:20:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA15661 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:20:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA15648 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:20:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA02891 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:25:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:25:45 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: svgalib? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk is svgalib strictly a Linux thing? or do we have it too? .________________________________________________________________________ __ _ |Alfred Perlstein - Programming & SysAdmin --"Have you seen my FreeBSD tatoo?" |perlsta@sunyit.edu --"who was that masked admin?" |http://www.cs.sunyit.edu/~perlsta : ' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 03:24:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA15827 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:24:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA15821 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:24:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA02900; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:28:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:28:50 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Niall Smart cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Loading code from userland In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk this seems like a bad idea, you would have arbitrary user code being executed at a privledged level, it's better to make seperate lkms for each method. you might be able to set something up alongs the lines that the kernel calls a procedure in your program to do something, however no rights should be given to the user code that could compromise the system. > Hi, > > I was wondering how I can load code from user-land into the kernel in > a manner similar to dlopen() and dlsym()? For example, if I had an > encrypted file system then I might want to allow the user to load their > own encryption module which defined a set of operations such as > initialise(), encrypt_block(), decrypt_block() etc. > > I think this can be achieved using lkm's - is this correct? I was > thinking that the module would call a function in the main body of the > encrypted file system code to pass it an array of entry points into > the module. > > Finally, can lkm's be compiled completely separately from the kernel or > are they specific to a particular kernel configuration? > > > Many thanks, > > > > Niall Smart > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 03:28:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA16042 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:28:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA16037 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:28:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA02910; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:33:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:33:52 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Thomas David Rivers cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sio silo overflows on a P75 @ 38400 baud? In-Reply-To: <199710281110.GAA06120@lakes.dignus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk if you've only seen three a day or so, it makes total sense that they might be occuring during the nightly/weekly/monthly scripts that seriously thrash your system. again it's easy to has 3 (or more) situtations, in your situation (not a lot of resources) where the system get's overloaded just for a few seconds or less causing the overflow... it's not more irritating, it's unavoidable. :) just think how many interupts there might be in second occuring on your serial port, just a little overactivity on the disk..... and wha-la. > > you are quite possbily over loading your system with a combination of > > writes and swapping (8megs of ram? ewwww) > > Hmm... good point. > > > > > if disk activity is constant it's quite possible to reach a load of 9.0+ > > i did while doing a buildworld and making my kernel -j8... it was at like > > 9.6+ at times... pretty cool as X kept freezing for several seconds at a > > time... > > But - the disk activity isn't constant; it's no where near that > (being a little twiddle about every 13 seconds). In fact, uptime > shows my load average as > 7:02AM up 8:52, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > So, I don't believe that's the culprit. > > In the span of this 8:52 hours, though, I've only seen 3 silo > overflows... So, the issue appears to be intermittent... (which > makes it more aggravating... :-) ) > > - Dave Rivers - > > > > > On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > > > > > > I was just wondering - should it be possible, at 38400 baud, > > > in multi-user mode, but nothing else really going on; to get > > > silo overflows on a P75 with 16550 (clone?) UARTs? > > > > > > I'm doing a SL/IP connection and sending the output of > > > dd'ing a tape back to the P75 system for un-tarring. The > > > sending system is a P200 (running FreeBSD 2.2-970510.) > > > > > > I'm getting these silo overflows with 2.2.5. > > > > > > I'm hoping someone can whip out some figures on the > > > interrupt latency to suggest that a P75 should be able > > > to deal with receiving 38400... > > > > > > This could, of course, be an artifact of some device > > > holding the bus too long. The P75 machine is a laptop > > > with a IDE drive (to which I'm writting) and 8 meg of memory; > > > again, running 2.2.5-RELEASE. > > > > > > - Thanks - > > > - Dave Rivers - > > > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 03:35:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA16472 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:35:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA16466 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA06362; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:35:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13442; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:52:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id GAA06368; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:41:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:41:16 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710281141.GAA06368@lakes.dignus.com> To: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: sio silo overflows on a P75 @ 38400 baud? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > if you've only seen three a day or so, it makes total sense that they > might be occuring during the nightly/weekly/monthly scripts that seriously > thrash your system. Ummm.... perhaps I mislead... I've wiped a machine and I am reloading it's meaningful stuff over a SL/IP connection... so, I'm just seeing the ones I'm seeing during this operation - not over an extended period of time. > > again it's easy to has 3 (or more) situtations, in your situation (not a > lot of resources) where the system get's overloaded just for a few seconds > or less causing the overflow... This could be the case - but since I'm not doing anything else (although it is in multiuser) besides flipping syscons virtual screens (not even typing) I don't believe some other unrelated task has popped in and is consuming resources. > > it's not more irritating, it's unavoidable. :) > just think how many interupts there might be in second occuring on your > serial port, just a little overactivity on the disk..... and wha-la. Yes, I can certainly see that - I'm just not sure it's my situation, it could be, but I'm not aware of the disk over-activity if it's occurring. - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - > > > > you are quite possbily over loading your system with a combination of > > > writes and swapping (8megs of ram? ewwww) > > > > Hmm... good point. > > > > > > > > if disk activity is constant it's quite possible to reach a load of 9.0+ > > > i did while doing a buildworld and making my kernel -j8... it was at like > > > 9.6+ at times... pretty cool as X kept freezing for several seconds at a > > > time... > > > > But - the disk activity isn't constant; it's no where near that > > (being a little twiddle about every 13 seconds). In fact, uptime > > shows my load average as > > 7:02AM up 8:52, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > > > So, I don't believe that's the culprit. > > > > In the span of this 8:52 hours, though, I've only seen 3 silo > > overflows... So, the issue appears to be intermittent... (which > > makes it more aggravating... :-) ) > > > > - Dave Rivers - > > > > > > > > On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Thomas David Rivers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I was just wondering - should it be possible, at 38400 baud, > > > > in multi-user mode, but nothing else really going on; to get > > > > silo overflows on a P75 with 16550 (clone?) UARTs? > > > > > > > > I'm doing a SL/IP connection and sending the output of > > > > dd'ing a tape back to the P75 system for un-tarring. The > > > > sending system is a P200 (running FreeBSD 2.2-970510.) > > > > > > > > I'm getting these silo overflows with 2.2.5. > > > > > > > > I'm hoping someone can whip out some figures on the > > > > interrupt latency to suggest that a P75 should be able > > > > to deal with receiving 38400... > > > > > > > > This could, of course, be an artifact of some device > > > > holding the bus too long. The P75 machine is a laptop > > > > with a IDE drive (to which I'm writting) and 8 meg of memory; > > > > again, running 2.2.5-RELEASE. > > > > > > > > - Thanks - > > > > - Dave Rivers - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 03:47:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA17221 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:47:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mother.sneaker.net.au (akm@mother.sneaker.net.au [203.30.3.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA17207 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:47:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@mother.sneaker.net.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mother.sneaker.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA29335; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:55:11 GMT From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199710282255.WAA29335@mother.sneaker.net.au> Subject: Re: sio silo overflows on a P75 @ 38400 baud? To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:55:10 +0000 () Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, rivers@dignus.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199710281110.GAA06120@lakes.dignus.com> from "Thomas David Rivers" at Oct 28, 97 06:10:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk +-----[ Thomas David Rivers ]------------------------------ | | | In the span of this 8:52 hours, though, I've only seen 3 silo | overflows... So, the issue appears to be intermittent... (which | makes it more aggravating... :-) ) You said you thought it was 16550 clone ? Maybe it doesn't have the 16 byte buffer that the 16550A's have, but, it is pretending to be one? This would certainly cause intermittant SILO overflows on a slowish box. -- ,-_|\ SneakerNet | Andrew Milton | GSM: +61(41)6 022 411 / \ P.O. Box 154 | akm@sneaker.net.au | Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233 v NSW 2137 | Low cost Internet Solutions | From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 04:44:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA20219 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:44:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA20211 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:44:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA14052; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:43:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:43:22 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > is svgalib strictly a Linux thing? or do we have it too? libvgl is our library that does some video manipulation. > > .________________________________________________________________________ __ _ > |Alfred Perlstein - Programming & SysAdmin --"Have you seen my FreeBSD tatoo?" > |perlsta@sunyit.edu --"who was that masked admin?" > |http://www.cs.sunyit.edu/~perlsta > : > ' > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 05:04:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA21297 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 05:04:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA21292 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 05:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA15247; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:03:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13836; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:20:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id IAA06589; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:09:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:09:21 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199710281309.IAA06589@lakes.dignus.com> To: akm@mother.sneaker.net.au, rivers@dignus.com Subject: Re: sio silo overflows on a P75 @ 38400 baud? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > +-----[ Thomas David Rivers ]------------------------------ > | > | > | In the span of this 8:52 hours, though, I've only seen 3 silo > | overflows... So, the issue appears to be intermittent... (which > | makes it more aggravating... :-) ) > > You said you thought it was 16550 clone ? > Maybe it doesn't have the 16 byte buffer that the 16550A's have, but, > it is pretending to be one? > > This would certainly cause intermittant SILO overflows on a slowish > box. > That's a good point - perhaps it doesn't. This slowish box is actually an ACER laptop. The documentation claims a 16550; but I kinda doubt it's a real one since this is a laptop and 16550s are (relatively speaking) kinda large... - Thanks! - - Dave R. - From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 06:01:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA24347 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from tech.kgtu.runnet.ru (tech.kgtu.runnet.ru [195.208.226.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA24335 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shin@tech.kgtu.runnet.ru) Received: from tech.kgtu.runnet.ru (localhost.tech.kgtu.runnet.ru [127.0.0.1]) by tech.kgtu.runnet.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00660; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:00:19 +0700 (KRS) Message-ID: <3455EFF2.A5B5776C@tech.kgtu.runnet.ru> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:00:18 +0700 From: Boris Shinkarev Organization: KGTU X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein CC: "freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: sio silo overflows on a P75 @ 38400 baud? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have liki this problem with my 386dx40 and 16450 ports on 4 ast serial card with isa bus tower and Archive VP150 tape. I think it is problem with I/O HDD,CPU and serial controller. I am avoid it with 16550 8 ports serial card and Pentium Overdrive 66MHZ VLB Bus. May be solution is downing speed for serial to 19200 or 9600, it is easy but isn't best. What did only your can decide. -- âÏÒÉÓ ûÉÎËÁÒÅ× Boris Shinkarev From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 07:45:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA29803 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:45:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (2EZuVVpbWYd7CpekyPiK0jMFqQacZiy6@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29793 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:45:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from ash2.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.16.30] ([iQjOFrToA66k7yP7FHwGpmqXGMX2CcNV]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xQDps-00062A-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:45:40 +0000 Received: from njs3 by ash2.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0xQDpm-0007NH-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:45:34 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:45:34 +0000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Loading code from userland Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 28, 7:28am, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > this seems like a bad idea, you would have arbitrary user code being > executed at a privledged level, it's better to make seperate lkms for each > method. Arbitrary? root decides which lkm's to load. > you might be able to set something up alongs the lines that the kernel > calls a procedure in your program to do something, however no rights > should be given to the user code that could compromise the system. This is communication between the kernel and a userland process, which is not what I wanted to do, I want to load code into the kernel. The reason for this is not that the code requires supervisor permissions but that the overhead of the context switches and buffer copying would make the whole thing far too slow to be practical. In any case, the kernel<->userland communication primitives probably require that the userland process runs as root anyway. Though if thats the case it could be changed. Niall From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 08:53:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03547 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:53:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03538 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:53:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29852; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd029829; Tue Oct 28 09:52:56 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA24834; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:52:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710281652.JAA24834@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) To: angio@angio.net (Dave Andersen) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:52:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org, thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710280700.AAA06875@meowy.angio.net> from "Dave Andersen" at Oct 28, 97 00:00:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I don't think administrators who remove "r" access to keep users > > > from copying executables would like this, since the users could > > > just switch to a copying program that uses mmap. > > > > A user can just ctrl-\ the thing and get a core and "undump" it now. > > > > If it's a net program, they can just download it. > > In reverse order: > > a) You'd most commonly do this to a program you wrote yourself to > protect it from exploitation and/or examination, not for > something you got off the net. > > b) Setuid programs haven't dumped core since the ftpd problem > a while ago. In forward order: a) The complaint was access to the image, not who wrote it. A core provides access to the image. b) Who said anything about suid being a requirement for wanting to protect the executable image? The reason you generally don't want an SUID program to core is the data section contains data it can access, but the user shouldn't be able to. Like the raw passwd file entries. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 09:02:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04126 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:02:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from db2server.voga.com.br (db2server.voga.com.br [200.239.39.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04119 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:02:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Daniel_Sobral@voga.com.br) Received: from papagaio.voga.com.br (papagaio.voga.com.br [200.239.39.2]) by db2server.voga.com.br (8.8.3+2.6Wbeta9/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA10820 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:00:47 -0300 Received: by papagaio.voga.com.br(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.7 3-18-1997)) id 0325653E.005D72F8 ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:00:42 -0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: VOGA From: "Daniel Sobral" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <0325653E.005D3CFC.00@papagaio.voga.com.br> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:00:39 -0300 Subject: SSA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If 40MB/s is reported, you still won't be able to get > more than some 37MB/s moved, actually, but well, it is > the number claimed by the drive and controller vendors, > and so it can't be wrong to report it :) Not by IBM (who wants to promote SSA instead). BTW, anyone thought about SSA drivers for FreeBSD? (www.ssaia.org, just in case) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 09:05:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04310 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:05:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04291; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:04:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01357; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:04:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd001313; Tue Oct 28 10:04:45 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25457; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:04:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710281704.KAA25457@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help with fstat? To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:04:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710280422.XAA02123@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Oct 27, 97 11:22:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > There used to be a MAP_SEQUENTIAL flag to get it to discard buffers > > > > after they had been accesed, instead of forcing more pages off the > > > > LRU, but BSD doesn't support this. 8-(. > > > > > > > > > > > Try madvise(2). It has a MADV_SEQUENTIAL. > > > > Is this supposed to cause it to discard page A after faulting in page B > > on the assumption A will not be rereferenced? > > > > I didn't think that it did this in -current... > > It doesn't 'discard', but should either deactivate or cache the page. Then it leaves the machine with quickly faulted pages (no system call overhead, like read/write would need, so faulting is "unfair") filling the LRU, pushing off "good" pages in preference for "bad" pages. In this case, "good" == "will be referenced again" and "bad" == "will not be referenced again". The idea is that the page discard puts the page forward on the LRU. This is the same thing you would do if the per vnode list was longer than some quota of in core pages in order to implement per vnode working set limitations to prevent things like a linker stupid enough to mmap() your object files from forcing your X server (or other program) out of core, and murdering interactive response. I guess it's a little different: taking LRU'ed pages from your own vnode instead of the global LRU is a page replacement policy change, and putting discarded pages at the front of the LRU so they are preferentially reused is a page discard policy change. But the net effect in either case is a woking set limitation. I think the only thing MADV_SEQUENTIAL does is fiddle the slow start on the read-ahead (unless I'm reading things totally wrong). You would still need to take a mapping fault to know what could be discarded (pages before the page faulted) in the MADV_SEQUENTIAL case... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 09:10:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04612 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04594 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:10:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18869; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:10:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd018861; Tue Oct 28 10:10:18 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25828; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:10:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710281710.KAA25828@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? To: faber@ISI.EDU (Ted Faber) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:10:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710280426.UAA24133@tnt.isi.edu> from "Ted Faber" at Oct 27, 97 08:26:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >(maybe i've used win95 once too many...) > > I won't bore you with the short scripts that provide this behavior on > UNIX. If that's the file deletion paradigm that you like, it's easy > to do... > > "UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because > that would also stop you from doing clever things." -- Doug Gwyn I'll note that these methods are generally restricted to interactive shells, and are not effective for deletes under programmatic control. So these methods are probably *not* what he wants, and certainly not what his system administrator wants. In response to the Windows 95 reference: the Windows 95 Recycle bin is not activated by a command line delete (unless you happen to have a VXD that traps deletes everywhere *but* the Recycle bin, and you probably don't because Artisoft never released the code). So it's doubly unlikely that he was talking about command-line based deletes, since Windows 95 doesn't do that. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 09:24:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05379 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:24:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05353 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:23:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02204; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:23:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710281723.JAA02204@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:25:45 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:23:12 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If we really wanted we could port it however svgalib brings a support nightmare. What needs to happen is to tie svgalib to the Xfree86 development in such a way that that low level graphic functions from the XFree86 server become available as a library. If you really want svgalib you can port it. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 09:24:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05423 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:24:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from roguetrader.com (brandon@cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05416 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:24:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@roguetrader.com) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by roguetrader.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA18325 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:24:35 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:24:34 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: new ports selection option of install Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is it just me, or is the ports selection option, as it stands in 2.2.5 (and last I checked in 3.0) rather... useless? It takes FOREVER to install all of the ports, and usually all I want is three or so ports. are there plans to split up the ports collections at least into sub sections based off their categories? Even best of all would be to do them the same as packages, letting you pick and choose. -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 09:37:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06295 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06279 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:37:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20210; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:37:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd020195; Tue Oct 28 10:37:26 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA27459; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:37:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710281737.KAA27459@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:37:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: james@reef.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971028153059.20678@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Oct 28, 97 03:30:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Thanks for the response. I'm sure it's too late now, with inode > > recycling, etc. However, if I had been unable to umount the > > filesystem... (we now enter the theoretical zone) > > *could* I have been able to use somekindof Norton's Utilities-esque > > package for UNIX which could check inodes and look for ones that > > were 'file starters', and maybe check the that if all of the inodes > > pointed to by that starter inode (it was big file so I excect > > a level or two of inode redirection) were still intact it could > > pull it back? Kinda like an 'un-delete' fsck? Ever hear of > > such a thing? > > Good question. I don't have a good answer. The first big problem is > identifying the inode. You could have literally millions to check. After deleting some important code, I immediately hit the power switch. With a daemon holding the reference, you could have sync'ed your system and flipped the switch, and the inode would be unreferenced by a directory, but present. A boot to single user mode (assuming the inode wasn't on / -- you'd need a floppy boot for that) and an fsck without "-y" (the default if you don't run it manually), and you could force the inode to come back in lost+found by saying "no" to a "clear?" prompt. If you delete the reference, hitting the power without a sync is the best bet to prevent the file's blocks being reused. The following assumes that you are not mounted "async", and you are using FFS (if you are mounting "async", you should probably change every occurance of "async" to "I_dont_care_if_you_eat_my_files" in the code to be more accurate about its function). Now it is time to grovel the disk. If you knew the previous location of the file, and it was not the first entry in a directory block, then the space used by the dirent was recovered by concatenating the space to the entry immediately previous to it. This will have the inode number in it (check here first). If the entry was compacted by a subsequent create (create/rename/link) operation, then it was destroyed. If the entry was the first entry in the directory block, it could not be compacted. Because FFS does not use a "deleted" flag bit, it indicated the deleted entry by zeroing the inode number (this is bogus, but I can't commit a fix). In either case, the inode number information is lost. If the inode number information is lost, you can look for the inode by inverse masking. You do this by finding all the inodes with a non-zero reference count. When you find these... these aren't the onces you're looking for. If you have lost either the inode or direct or indirect block mappings, the problem gets harder. Again you can use inverse masking: blocks which are allocated in the allocation bitmap.... aren't the ones you're looking for. At this point, you have only reduced the search space. Now you have to go through the block contents looking for something you recognize as the correct file contents. Clearly, this is pretty useless with executables. However, if you find file contents, you can find the inode or indirect block that refers to the identified content block. If you can do this, you can traverse the chain and find some or all of the rest of the file. It is useful to build an "unallocated block contents grepper" and supply it with a string you know is in the file, but unlikely to be found in other files. Generally, if the disk is not overfull already, you will find the file data in write clusters (most blocks will be physically contiguous to previous blocks). This won't work for frags, but frags will either start at the start of the block, or they will be a member of a frag block. Finally, it is useful to build a "block list assembly editor"; it's purpose is to make it easier to recognize candidate blocks. Say you have a block ending with "We hold these truths to be self evi". The next block in sequence will have a high probability of starting with "dent". This relies on you, the human syntactic pattern recognizer. With a couple of home-grown tools (FS's are generally different enough in layout that the tools must be home grown, since you must have order of operation clues to make some of the above assumptions) and a little patience, you can usually recover most if not all of your data. On the other hand, you could just keep reasonable backups. 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 09:57:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07881 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:57:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07870 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:57:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21158; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd021151; Tue Oct 28 10:57:09 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA28850; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:57:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710281757.KAA28850@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Loading code from userland To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:57:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Niall Smart" at Oct 28, 97 10:27:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was wondering how I can load code from user-land into the kernel in > a manner similar to dlopen() and dlsym()? For example, if I had an > encrypted file system then I might want to allow the user to load their > own encryption module which defined a set of operations such as > initialise(), encrypt_block(), decrypt_block() etc. You should procedurally abstract the interface so that the user code is run in user space, not kernel space, unless you believe you can trust all your users to not rewrite the "uid" portion of their own proc struct. The BSD way to do this is generally called "portals". The FS layer would open a portal to a user program, and (basically) read and write pipe data according to a protocol. A better idea would be to have the system provide methods. All a user needs is a one-way hash that blows his data, instead of a reversible encryption. The issue is the keys, not the algorithm, in any case, so there is not any real drawback to having a pallete of algorithms to choose from. One issue here is that the encryption keys should be treated as credentials. The problem with that is that there is no session manager to act as a credential holder on the user's behalf, so you would have to figure out a way that the kernel could as the user a question, such as "what's your key?". That means "session manager" or "mount time command line argument". > I think this can be achieved using lkm's - is this correct? I was > thinking that the module would call a function in the main body of the > encrypted file system code to pass it an array of entry points into > the module. It could be achieved this way, but it would be a mistake to do it. FreeBSD does not support the concept of more than two protection domains, mostly because it aspires to run on more hardware than just VAX and Intel processors, and some of that hardware only supports two domain identities. > Finally, can lkm's be compiled completely separately from the kernel or > are they specific to a particular kernel configuration? LKM's are particular to a given set of kernel internals. Which set depends on the kernel interfaces consumed by the LKM. The link is done at load time, so so long as there are no structural changes to whatever the LKM references, the LKM doesn't need to be recompiled. In practice, the LKM will need to be frequently recompiled. A procedurally abstract interface does not depend on structure references, so this is another reason to use one instead of LKM's (at least until there is a formal DDI/DKI specification). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 10:05:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08550 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:05:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08540 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:05:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA09151; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:04:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd009137; Tue Oct 28 11:04:52 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA29496; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:04:47 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710281804.LAA29496@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: More on silo overflows... To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:04:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199710281114.GAA06159@lakes.dignus.com> from "Thomas David Rivers" at Oct 28, 97 06:14:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think I've found the association that causes my silo overflows > at 38400 on a P75. > > It seems that everytime I use syscons' screen-flipping feature to > bounce to another virtual screen - I get a silo overflow. > > Perhaps this points the suspicious finger at syscons? Is it disabling > interrupts for some long period of time? Most likely, it is the time needed to reprogram the keyboard LED's that is screwing you. IMO, this does not need to happen at SPL with a buzz-loop delay; you should be able to get rid of one or the other (or both). The problem with getting rid of the buzz-loop delay is that it requires good timer code. Only NetBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux have implemented my timer suggestions. 8-|. You may want to see if the LED state is the same, and if so, if it will still cause the error (people generally work with one set of key states). It may be that you can cache state and toggle only things which have changed between sessions, if syscons does not do this already. You could try to trigger the error by starting an FTP and bouncing numlock or capslock like mad. If the error doesn't trigger, then a single LED isn't enough to blow it. You may also consider seperating the programming into three phases in which you alow interrupts between them. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 10:29:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10077 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:29:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10061; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA16590; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:29:18 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710281829.NAA16590@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: <199710281704.KAA25457@usr06.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 28, 97 05:04:37 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:29:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, tlambert@primenet.com, angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > > > > There used to be a MAP_SEQUENTIAL flag to get it to discard buffers > > > > > after they had been accesed, instead of forcing more pages off the > > > > > LRU, but BSD doesn't support this. 8-(. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try madvise(2). It has a MADV_SEQUENTIAL. > > > > > > Is this supposed to cause it to discard page A after faulting in page B > > > on the assumption A will not be rereferenced? > > > > > > I didn't think that it did this in -current... > > > > It doesn't 'discard', but should either deactivate or cache the page. > > Then it leaves the machine with quickly faulted pages (no system call > overhead, like read/write would need, so faulting is "unfair") filling > the LRU, pushing off "good" pages in preference for "bad" pages. In > this case, "good" == "will be referenced again" and "bad" == "will not > be referenced again". > Pages are usually pretty darned unused by the time they are on the inactive or cache queues. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 10:34:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA10530 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:34:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from goof.com (goof.com [128.173.247.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10521 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mmead@goof.com) Received: (qmail 24524 invoked by uid 10000); 28 Oct 1997 18:33:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19971028133336.48472@goof.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:33:36 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: amd and NIS maps: No source data for map amd.home References: <19971027185336.32293@goof.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19971027185336.32293@goof.com>; from matthew c. mead on Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 06:53:36PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 06:53:36PM -0500, matthew c. mead wrote: > Hi - I'm currently attempting to get amd to read an NIS > (really Solaris 2.x NIS+ in NIS compat mode - yeah yeah, I know) > map amd.home and apply it to /home. Unfortunately, I'm not able > to get it to see the NIS map. I get the error "No source data > for map amd.home". Does anyone know the proper fix to this > problem? I'm positive my ypbind is bound to the server, as I can > manually ypcat -k amd.home and see the amd /home map. I'm > invoking amd like so: > amd -a /.automount -y math.vt.edu -l syslog /home amd.home > > Any thoughts? Thanks in advance! In wonderful form, I'll followup to myself. This appears to be a bug in yp_order under 2.2.5-RELEASE. When I made amd just check how long since the map had been reloaded and reload if older than 3600 seconds, it works fine. Anyone know where to begin hacking in yp_order? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@goof.com http://www.goof.com/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 10:46:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11523 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:46:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11517 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:46:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA18326; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:46:03 -0800 (PST) To: Brandon Gillespie cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new ports selection option of install In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:24:34 MST." Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:46:02 -0800 Message-ID: <18322.878064362@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is it just me, or is the ports selection option, as it stands in 2.2.5 > (and last I checked in 3.0) rather... useless? I think it's just you. Nobody else has complained, and I certainly find it damn useful to have the *entire* ports collection stored as a single 4.3MB file which can be unpacked at any time (and I use it all the time, even though it does take a fair while to unpack all those files). As the ports collection grows ever more interdependant with time, I also see this trend as only heading away from the direction of splitting it up so it would be my recommendation that you simply get used to the load time and disk space usage of a full ports tree. C'mon, it's still a lot more than you get with Solaris. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 10:52:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11856 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:52:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA11804 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:51:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from devet@adv.IAEhv.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.6.13/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 16608 on Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:51:41 GMT; id SAA16608 efrom: devet@adv.IAEhv.nl; eto: hackers@freebsd.org Received: (from devet@localhost) by adv.IAEhv.nl (8.8.5/8.8.6) id TAA08555; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:36:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:36:39 +0100 (CET) From: Arjan de Vet Message-Id: <199710281836.TAA08555@adv.IAEhv.nl> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Squid and threads under FreeBSD X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199710280505.XAA03547@solaria.sol.net> Organization: Internet Access Eindhoven, the Netherlands Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199710280505.XAA03547@solaria.sol.net> you write: >I've seen the AIO changes and they look promising, but I was wondering >how much further things had progressed. > >I'm seriously examining the possibilty of running something like >Cyclone from Highwind Software, for which threads are a requirement. >Due to the I/O intensive nature of such a beast, the old pthreads >stuff probably is not up to the challenge. The same holds for the Squid proxy cache version 1.2 (currently in beta, see ftp://squid.nlanr.net/pub/squid-1.2.beta). It has AIO implemented with pthreads and I've tried running it with libc_r.a on 2.2.5 but that fails miserably :-(. A native AIO implementation would be nice especially for the open()ing of files because that takes >50% of the time for one of the Squid caches I maintain during which other connections just stop. >Any recent developments? I'm interested too and would like to test Squid 1.2 on FreeBSD with threads and/or AIO. Is there a special FreeBSD mailinglist for this kind of stuff? Arjan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 11:15:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13494 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:15:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (YLllp6KWgLKeGWHjiibxYPofzYW1eEOc@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA13488 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([e+KMT1EPIkOkIiKnacYfyDjGdD1zYE5q]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xQH6b-0007Q4-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:15:09 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xQH6U-00038C-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:15:02 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:15:02 +0000 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: Loading code from userland" (Oct 28, 5:57pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Terry Lambert , njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Subject: Re: Loading code from userland Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 28, 5:57pm, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: Loading code from userland > > I was wondering how I can load code from user-land into the kernel in > > a manner similar to dlopen() and dlsym()? For example, if I had an > > encrypted file system then I might want to allow the user to load their > > own encryption module which defined a set of operations such as > > initialise(), encrypt_block(), decrypt_block() etc. > > You should procedurally abstract the interface so that the user > code is run in user space, not kernel space, unless you believe > you can trust all your users to not rewrite the "uid" portion > of their own proc struct. [ big snip ] After re-reading my original post, it's clear that I was ambiguous about what I was trying to do. When I said 'user' I should have said 'the system administrator': the encryption would be done on a filesystem basis rather file by file, user by user. My apologies and thanks to those who replied with ideas of how to safely implement user-configuration of the kernel. So, I'm trying to allow the system administrator to load a module which can operate on the blocks before they get written to disk. This could be used for compression or encryption. The question is how can I load a module like this and register it with the filesystem implementation. Loadable kernel modules? Regards, Niall From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 11:36:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14912 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:36:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14903 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:36:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04103 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:41:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:41:32 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <199710281723.JAA02204@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I know the main idea of freebsd isn't games, but how hard would it be to emulate svgalib using our libvgl? i can't seem to find any documentation on either project, does anyone have any pointers for me? thank you, Alfred On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > If we really wanted we could port it however svgalib brings a support > nightmare. What needs to happen is to tie svgalib to the Xfree86 development > in such a way that that low level graphic functions from the XFree86 server > become available as a library. > > If you really want svgalib you can port it. > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 11:55:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15920 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:55:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from roguetrader.com (brandon@cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15915 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:55:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@roguetrader.com) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by roguetrader.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20082 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:55:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:55:30 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: more general checksum command, replacing md5? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just curious, with the inclusion of SHS hashing in crypt(), would anybody consider a generalized checksum command? It wouldn't be too hard to make a general 'cs' or 'checksum' command that accepts arguments to determine the algorithm being used... ala: cs -md5 cs -shs Etc... With multiple algorithms, I'd also suggest having the checksum command be capable of doing the comparison, so it could know what to do based off the existing checksum it is being compared to, ala: cs -check 'MD5 (foof) = 092eb830a343bf1fad2e522834cf346e' < foof cs -checkf foof.md5 < foof Would exit ''true'' or ''false'' depending upon if the check was good. Just curious, I suppose the other alternative would be to make an 'shs' command similar to 'md5'.. but that seems unclean.. -Brandon From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 12:05:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16521 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:05:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA16512 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:05:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from ash2.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.16.30] ([KfauUkEUrRkBLBgOfg9yhB/C97PnNkkl]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xQHsr-0007YE-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:05:01 +0000 Received: from njs3 by ash2.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0xQHsk-0007XH-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:04:54 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:04:54 +0000 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: Loading code from userland" (Oct 28, 5:57pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Terry Lambert , njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Subject: Re: Loading code from userland Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 28, 5:57pm, Terry Lambert wrote: [snip] > FreeBSD does not support the concept of more than two protection > domains, mostly because it aspires to run on more hardware than just > VAX and Intel processors, and some of that hardware only supports > two domain identities. I presume the two protection domains you refer to are user and supervisor modes. > In practice, the LKM will need to be frequently recompiled. A > procedurally abstract interface does not depend on structure > references, so this is another reason to use one instead of LKM's > (at least until there is a formal DDI/DKI specification). What do DDI/DDK stand for? Is there a project implementing them (you seem to think they are useful) Niall From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 12:25:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18120 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:25:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18103 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:25:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA15031 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:25:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:25:14 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: USB driver in the works? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I'm curious to know if anyone is currently working on a driver for controlling USB (Universal Serial Bus) devices. If no one is, I'm considering launching a development campaign. I have this wierd dream of running the Toshiba InTouch modules with a FreeBSD box. For those of you who aren't familiar with these, the InTouch module is a LCD display with several menu buttons and a rotary volume control that connects through a USB connector and sits on the desktop or is attached to the display. There is another model that has the same buttons but has single LED indicators instead of the LCD display. In the standard Infinita system, the user can press keys to enable and control system functions, such as the TV, radio, or messaging system. As a strange coincidence, FreeBSD can accomplish the same tasks, so it may be possible to get the full functionality out of an Infinita running FreeBSD instead of Windows95. The video capture/FM board is a Bt848-based board, which we already have extensive support for (thanks to the -multimedia crew). Assuming that Toshiba is forthcoming with the programming spec, it should be possible to make a FreeBSD box with the appropriate drivers control it. So, if anyone is currently working on the project, or if anyone is interested in helping, let me know. Thanks! Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 13:01:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA20314 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:01:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20305 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:01:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA19777; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:00:20 -0800 (PST) To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:41:32 EST." Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:00:20 -0800 Message-ID: <19773.878072420@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I know the main idea of freebsd isn't games, but how hard would it be to > emulate svgalib using our libvgl? It wouldn't be easy. You're welcome to try. :) > i can't seem to find any documentation on either project, does anyone have > any pointers for me? I don't know about Linux's SVGAlib, but I know that everything there is to find about libvgl is in /usr/src/lib/libvgl - that's literally all there is. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 13:08:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA20840 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:08:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from intercore.com (num1sun.intercore.com [199.181.243.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20834 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:08:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robin@intercore.com) Received: (robin@localhost) by intercore.com (8.7.1/8.6.4) id QAA08066; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:01:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971028160109.44474@num1sun.intercore.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:01:09 -0500 From: Robin Cutshaw To: Stephen McKay Cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Perils of login.conf (Was: fsck (2.2.5-RELEASE) large filesystems broken) References: <19971023004136.21792@crh.cl.msu.edu> <199710240723.RAA15535@ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19971024083642.18571@crh.cl.msu.edu> <199710250154.LAA02018@troll.dtir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199710250154.LAA02018@troll.dtir.qld.gov.au>; from Stephen McKay on Sat, Oct 25, 1997 at 11:54:11AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Oct 25, 1997 at 11:54:11AM +1000, Stephen McKay wrote: > > On Friday, 24th October 1997, Charles Henrich wrote: > > >On the subject of Re: fsck (2.2.5-RELEASE) large filesystems broken, Stephen McKay stated: > > > >> I'd guess that you are being bitten by /etc/login.conf. The comments in it > >> claim that 'daemon' is used by /etc/rc and 'daemon' has "datasize=32M". Try > >> bumping this to 64M. > > > >Yes, that was it. I'd like to take an assault rifle to the fellow who decided > >the defaults for FreeBSD is so limited, especially considering in most cases > >FreeBSD is installed as a one or two use system. > After installing 2.2.5, I patched in the DPT driver so that the 9 GB scsi drives could be accessed. I found that the "daemon" section in login.conf does nothing during /etc/rc. I placed a ulimit -a just before the fsck there and found that the "default" section was being used. robin -- ---- Robin Cutshaw internet: robin@interlabs.com robin@intercore.com Internet Labs, Inc. BellNet: 404-817-9787 robin@XFree86.Org "Time is just one damn thing after another" -- PBS/Nova ---- -- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 13:52:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA23980 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:52:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr01.primenet.com (tlambert@usr01.primenet.com [206.165.6.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23942; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:52:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15707; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:51:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710282151.OAA15707@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help with fstat? To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:51:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710281829.NAA16590@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Oct 28, 97 01:29:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > It doesn't 'discard', but should either deactivate or cache the page. > > Pages are usually pretty darned unused by the time they are on the > inactive or cache queues. But will this page be reused before another page that was less recently accessed? In other words, when push comes to shove, is a deactivated/cached page reused before forcing a clean page backed by a file without MADV_SEQUENTIAL? Ie: what effect does MADV_SEQUENTIAL have on cache thrashing? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 14:05:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24884 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:05:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24851; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:05:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA17354; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:04:23 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710282204.RAA17354@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: <199710282151.OAA15707@usr01.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 28, 97 09:51:31 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:04:23 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > > > It doesn't 'discard', but should either deactivate or cache the page. > > > > Pages are usually pretty darned unused by the time they are on the > > inactive or cache queues. > > Ie: what effect does MADV_SEQUENTIAL have on cache thrashing? > It improves it. The system works better. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 14:38:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26979 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:38:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26974 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:38:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (vex-s.isi.edu [128.9.192.240]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA27532; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:37:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710282237.OAA27532@tnt.isi.edu> To: Terry Lambert Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:10:15 GMT." <199710281710.KAA25828@usr06.primenet.com> X-Url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:37:44 -0800 From: Ted Faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Terry Lambert wrote: >> >(maybe i've used win95 once too many...) >> >> I won't bore you with the short scripts that provide this behavior on >> UNIX. If that's the file deletion paradigm that you like, it's easy >> to do... >> >> "UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because >> that would also stop you from doing clever things." -- Doug Gwyn > >I'll note that these methods are generally restricted to interactive >shells, and are not effective for deletes under programmatic control. >So these methods are probably *not* what he wants, and certainly not >what his system administrator wants. When I jotted off the earlier note, I thought he wanted a safe rm script. Seems reasonable -- file deletion from the Windows GUI is the moral equivalent of file deletion from the shell -- since they both protect from file deletion from the primary user interface. However, your note got me thinking... One quick and dirty way to get trashcan behavior, even outside the shell, is to create a mirror of the user's directory structure under ~/trashcan (omitting ~/trashcan from the mirror, of course). Populate the ~/trashcan with hard links to the user's real files. Use cron to add new files and directories to the trashcan mirror regularly. Emptying the trashcan is just a matter of removing files that don't have links outside the trashcan (deleting files with only one link approximates this, but doesn't take into account files that are multiply linked in the user's home directory). Restoring a file is relinking it. Now, I just dashed that off the top of my head, and I'm sure that there are special cases that it doesn't cover (files created and deleted between cron jobs, symlinks, renaming files), but it's a long way toward trashcan behavior for all files without touching any file system code. (And I think most of the special cases could be caught.) There's a cost for maintaining the directory structure, but beyond that, it's even pretty cheap in terms of system resources, which would make his sysadmin happy. As you mentioned in another note, getting real "soft delete" behavior is a hard problem, and an interesting one. For me, it's solved by frequent, easily accessible backups, but I'm sure there are others who would appreciate such a system. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Faber faber@isi.edu USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNFZpN4b4eisfQ5rpAQEQgwP/ZiEI3YupGnBNDSxIdb//TCLO4OIj+Ija RlwkvvlLOUmmD2jDKm2Q8R7py/Rwn+qCv1lJOHJJAPdVdPpmfWqO0OpFIGUcuo6r 2SCUP8H/UNUuodDDLzmTLKgjAUkxCwcFbFjFUjCToguoLK5d+suWY0Usw8NUKBWy UrcxByLjwaU= =0O6M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 16:44:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA04871 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:44:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04861 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00828; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:44:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:44:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <19773.878072420@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The (direct?) X extension on newer versions of xfree86 isn't so bad. Maybye you should take a look into it. I think it lets you use shared memory to directly write to the x display. I used to play quake under an extension like this in linux, I am sure it is standard these days. With the sysvshm working it wasn't at all bad. On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I know the main idea of freebsd isn't games, but how hard would it be to > > emulate svgalib using our libvgl? > > It wouldn't be easy. You're welcome to try. :) > > > i can't seem to find any documentation on either project, does anyone have > > any pointers for me? > > I don't know about Linux's SVGAlib, but I know that everything there is > to find about libvgl is in /usr/src/lib/libvgl - that's literally all there > is. :) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 16:51:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA05512 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:51:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA05504 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:51:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id TAA26658; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:51:12 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710290051.TAA26658@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Squid and threads under FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199710281836.TAA08555@adv.IAEhv.nl> from Arjan de Vet at "Oct 28, 97 07:36:39 pm" To: Arjan.deVet@adv.IAEhv.nl (Arjan de Vet) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:51:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Arjan de Vet said: > In article <199710280505.XAA03547@solaria.sol.net> you write: > > >I've seen the AIO changes and they look promising, but I was wondering > >how much further things had progressed. > > > >I'm seriously examining the possibilty of running something like > >Cyclone from Highwind Software, for which threads are a requirement. > >Due to the I/O intensive nature of such a beast, the old pthreads > >stuff probably is not up to the challenge. > > The same holds for the Squid proxy cache version 1.2 (currently in beta, > see ftp://squid.nlanr.net/pub/squid-1.2.beta). > > It has AIO implemented with pthreads and I've tried running it with > libc_r.a on 2.2.5 but that fails miserably :-(. A native AIO implementation > would be nice especially for the open()ing of files because that takes > >50% of the time for one of the Squid caches I maintain during which other > connections just stop. > > >Any recent developments? > > I'm interested too and would like to test Squid 1.2 on FreeBSD with > threads and/or AIO. Is there a special FreeBSD mailinglist for this kind > of stuff? > I *almost* have a native AIO working. If I don't get interrupted, it'll be in -current for non-SMP only tomorrow. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 16:55:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA05782 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:55:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA05777 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:55:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from giffuni.inteng.com ([168.176.3.43]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA8203; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:57:35 +0500 Message-ID: <34568803.723DA1BC@asme.org> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:49:07 +0000 From: "Pedro Giffuni S." Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein CC: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svgalib? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, The last time I saw a discussion about this, the main idea was that it was unacceptable to give control to a SVGA screen because it could be dificult to regain that control. AFAIK, libvgl only supports low level VGA/EGA graphics. There are other interesting projects from the DOS (DJGPP) world. Take a look, for example at Allegro: http://www.talula.demon.co.uk/allegro/ Soren Schmidt says this could be easy to put on top of libvgl :-). cheers, Pedro. Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > I know the main idea of freebsd isn't games, but how hard would it be to > emulate svgalib using our libvgl? > > i can't seem to find any documentation on either project, does anyone have > any pointers for me? > > thank you, > Alfred > > On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > > If we really wanted we could port it however svgalib brings a support > > nightmare. What needs to happen is to tie svgalib to the Xfree86 development > > in such a way that that low level graphic functions from the XFree86 server > > become available as a library. > > > > If you really want svgalib you can port it. > > > > Cheers, > > Amancio > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:00:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06146 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:00:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06139 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:00:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA20427; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:59:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21590; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA26834; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:59:40 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710290059.QAA26834@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:59:40 -0800 In-Reply-To: Alexander Litvin "Re: de0 errors" (Oct 25, 6:49pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Alexander Litvin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: P-II hangs [was Re: de0 errors] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 25, 6:49pm, Alexander Litvin wrote: } Subject: Re: de0 errors } I experience the same. } } No problem it would be, but with that card the box also seems } to lockup after a while :( It is our proxy server, quite busy } (about 30000 requests per hour), and I don't have opportunity } to investigate it in details, but after installation of DE it } locked up two times during one hour, so I decided to put back } PCI ed. } } All that on 2.2.5, 266MHz P-II, Intel LX chipset. Funny you should mention the lockup problem. I've got 2.1-stable running on a Dell 266MHz P-II that I can get to lock up whenever I want by taring a 60MB directory tree into an mfs filesystem mounted on /tmp. It doesn't lock up the first time I do this, but waits until I remove the file and run tar the second time. It's not anywhere close to running out of swap. Also the machine runs "make world" using mfs just fine. If I run top in another window, top continues to run even after tar hangs, but then top will also freeze if I ^C tar. The window running tar still responds to ^T, and I can still ping the machine. I can't get the machine to reboot and the only escape is to hit the reset button. The PCI hardware consists of an Adaptec 2940UW and an Intel Etherexpress PRO. I have not been able to reproduce this problem on any of the P-133's that are running the same OS release. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:09:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06558 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:09:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06553 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:08:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA07555; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:16:45 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710290116.CAA07555@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: more general checksum command, replacing md5? In-Reply-To: from Brandon Gillespie at "Oct 28, 97 12:55:30 pm" To: brandon@roguetrader.com (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:16:45 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Brandon Gillespie: > Just curious, with the inclusion of SHS hashing in crypt(), would anybody > consider a generalized checksum command? It wouldn't be too hard to make > a general 'cs' or 'checksum' command that accepts arguments to determine > the algorithm being used... ala: Er... Why not, in that case, just add those options to the chsum program? Having more then one general checksum program seems to be overdoing it. /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:21:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07228 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:21:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07211 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:21:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA07569; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:28:30 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710290128.CAA07569@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: <199710270948.BAA24643@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Oct 27, 97 01:48:47 am" To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:28:30 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [...Discussion on ECC/parity/no-parity memory...] I seem to recall something about partiy and/or ECC memory having slower access rates, or something, and therefor being a bad thing preformace-wise but a good thing safety-wise? I don't know where I got this, but could anyone with knowledge in the subject maybe enlighten me on the amount of truth behind this? /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:22:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07323 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:22:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07314 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:22:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA05483; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:22:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:22:25 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > The (direct?) X extension on newer versions of xfree86 isn't so bad. > Maybye you should take a look into it. I think it lets you use shared > memory to directly write to the x display. I used to play quake under an > extension like this in linux, I am sure it is standard these days. With > the sysvshm working it wasn't at all bad. Yes, it is very 'standard' these days, it is the MIT-SHM extension to X11. The only servers that I have come across that HAVEN'T supported this are X-Stations, and PC Xservers. Everything UNIX based >= X11R5 that I have seen has been MIT-SHM enabled. (you do need to have shared memory support in the kernel). I have never actually programmed the MIT-SHM extension though :I -- David Cross From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:28:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07893 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:28:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07842 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:27:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20291; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:29:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710290129.RAA20291@implode.root.com> To: Mikael Karpberg cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:28:30 +0100." <199710290128.CAA07569@ocean.campus.luth.se> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:29:28 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >[...Discussion on ECC/parity/no-parity memory...] > >I seem to recall something about partiy and/or ECC memory having slower >access rates, or something, and therefor being a bad thing preformace-wise >but a good thing safety-wise? > >I don't know where I got this, but could anyone with knowledge in the >subject maybe enlighten me on the amount of truth behind this? In order to update the memory, the ECC must be recalculated over the entire 64bit quadword. This escentially means that you have to read the memory first, apply the changes/calculate the new ECC and then write it back. Obviously, this makes memory writes quite a bit slower. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:29:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA08034 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:29:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA08029 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:29:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA07602; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:37:08 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710290137.CAA07602@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) In-Reply-To: <199710280017.QAA23766@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> from Don Lewis at "Oct 27, 97 04:17:32 pm" To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:37:07 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Don Lewis: [...] > } You need to be able to open something with just "x" access to map > } it so that a proces you own can "run" it. So you also want to > } allow an open if you have execute access. > > I don't think administrators who remove "r" access to keep users > from copying executables would like this, since the users could > just switch to a copying program that uses mmap. > > I think it would be better to add a kernel hook so that the emulator > could be registered as an interpreter for foreign binaries. The > kernel could then open an fd and pass it to the emulator when the > binary is execed. Something similar would allow you to remove the > "r" permissions from shell scripts. Er... Either you make the emulator a kernel module, in which case it would be able to do anything, or you allow for an "emulator hook". So, I just write myself a nice little util that hooks into that hook, gets the binary, and dumps the whole file to disk with 755 permissions wherever I want. No? Doesn't seem very effective. Possibly you could need to be root, and the emulator could be setuid. Then, maybe... /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:49:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09352 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:49:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09334 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:48:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA20744; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22514; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:47:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA26966; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:47:57 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199710290147.RAA26966@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:47:56 -0800 In-Reply-To: Mikael Karpberg "Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug)" (Oct 29, 2:37am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Mikael Karpberg , Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 29, 2:37am, Mikael Karpberg wrote: } Subject: Re: Possible SERIOUS bug in open()? (Big time bug) } > I think it would be better to add a kernel hook so that the emulator } > could be registered as an interpreter for foreign binaries. The } > kernel could then open an fd and pass it to the emulator when the } > binary is execed. Something similar would allow you to remove the } > "r" permissions from shell scripts. } } Er... Either you make the emulator a kernel module, in which case it would } be able to do anything, It's probably not a good idea to add something this large to the kernel. } or you allow for an "emulator hook". So, I just } write myself a nice little util that hooks into that hook, gets the binary, } and dumps the whole file to disk with 755 permissions wherever I want. No? } Doesn't seem very effective. Possibly you could need to be root, and the } emulator could be setuid. Then, maybe... You need to be root to configure the hook, probably using sysctl. If root wanted to install an emulator that dumps the file out with 755 permissions, it could have just as easily just have used cp and chmod. Once root has configured the hook, then any user with "x" access to the emulator and the foreign binary could use the emulator to run the foreign binary. The emulator wouldn't need to be setuid since the hook would be configured ahead of time. If an ordinary user wants to install an emulator and a foreign binary, then that user can give the foreign binary both "r" and "x" access and run the emulator the old fashioned way. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:57:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09903 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from roguetrader.com (brandon@cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09898 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@roguetrader.com) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by roguetrader.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA22651; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:57:30 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:57:29 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: Mikael Karpberg cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more general checksum command, replacing md5? In-Reply-To: <199710290116.CAA07555@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > According to Brandon Gillespie: > > Just curious, with the inclusion of SHS hashing in crypt(), would anybody > > consider a generalized checksum command? It wouldn't be too hard to make > > a general 'cs' or 'checksum' command that accepts arguments to determine > > the algorithm being used... ala: > > Er... Why not, in that case, just add those options to the chsum program? Because the checksum program is 'md5' > Having more then one general checksum program seems to be overdoing it. my point exactly. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 17:59:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09992 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:59:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09980 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:59:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA07672; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:07:30 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710290207.DAA07672@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Recovering Lost Inode? In-Reply-To: <19971028153059.20678@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Oct 28, 97 03:30:59 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:07:30 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Greg Lehey: > On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 06:35:24PM -0600, James Buszard-Welcher wrote: > > Thanks for the response. I'm sure it's too late now, with inode > > recycling, etc. However, if I had been unable to umount the > > filesystem... (we now enter the theoretical zone) > > *could* I have been able to use somekindof Norton's Utilities-esque > > package for UNIX which could check inodes and look for ones that > > were 'file starters', and maybe check the that if all of the inodes > > pointed to by that starter inode (it was big file so I excect > > a level or two of inode redirection) were still intact it could > > pull it back? Kinda like an 'un-delete' fsck? Ever hear of > > such a thing? > > Good question. I don't have a good answer. The first big problem is > identifying the inode. You could have literally millions to check. But, _if_ he had not killed the daemon, it would still be holding a reference to the file. Maybe that could help, somehow? Is there in the case you know a program is holding a reference to a file, but the file has no link from a directory, any possibility of doing something like (after "kill -STOP" on the program, if it might terminate) syscall_saveme(procnum, the_procs_fd_for_the_file, "filename") as root to add a reference to the file referenced by a process? Or maybe something like syscall_copy_fds(procnum) that would allows a program get a copy of a running proc's filedescriptors (like if it was forked from the proc). The second thing should allow for reading it and copying it to a file, or possibly link it to a name, although I can't think of a nice call to do that with, right now. If this is not possible right now, would it be hard to do, and does it add any security holes? It seems it should, but I can't think of one. /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 18:20:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10964 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:20:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10955 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:20:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA22166; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:20:19 -0800 (PST) To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:44:01 PST." Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:20:19 -0800 Message-ID: <22163.878091619@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The (direct?) X extension on newer versions of xfree86 isn't so bad. > Maybye you should take a look into it. I think it lets you use shared > memory to directly write to the x display. I used to play quake under an > extension like this in linux, I am sure it is standard these days. With > the sysvshm working it wasn't at all bad. Unfortunately, using this also means that: a) You need to get X working first before the user can use your little graphics utility, and getting X up is still apparently too much of a chore for many people. b) It leaves people like myself who use Xaccel out in the cold (and there are many FreeBSD Xaccel users out there) since it does not and probably never will support the DGA extention. > > On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > I know the main idea of freebsd isn't games, but how hard would it be to > > > emulate svgalib using our libvgl? > > > > It wouldn't be easy. You're welcome to try. :) > > > > > i can't seem to find any documentation on either project, does anyone hav e > > > any pointers for me? > > > > I don't know about Linux's SVGAlib, but I know that everything there is > > to find about libvgl is in /usr/src/lib/libvgl - that's literally all there > > is. :) > > > > Jordan > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 18:21:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10988 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:21:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10983 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:21:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA07708; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:29:13 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710290229.DAA07708@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: <199710290129.RAA20291@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Oct 28, 97 05:29:28 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:29:12 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to David Greenman: > > > >[...Discussion on ECC/parity/no-parity memory...] > > > >I seem to recall something about partiy and/or ECC memory having slower > >access rates, or something, and therefor being a bad thing preformace-wise > >but a good thing safety-wise? > > > >I don't know where I got this, but could anyone with knowledge in the > >subject maybe enlighten me on the amount of truth behind this? > > In order to update the memory, the ECC must be recalculated over the > entire 64bit quadword. This escentially means that you have to read the > memory first, apply the changes/calculate the new ECC and then write it > back. Obviously,this makes memory writes quite a bit slower. Hmm... It's still not quite clear to me. That is, does this slow my computer down, in case I use ECC? It seems to me all this could be done on the DIMM/SIMM, or something, possibly clocked at multiple of the bus clockspeed, and therefor not effect the rate at which memory could be read/written over the bus by the CPU. If that's not the case, and the computer is actually slowed down by ECC, how much performace do you loose? 0.1%? 5%? 30%? /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 18:26:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11464 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:26:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11458 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:26:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA22353; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:25:37 -0800 (PST) To: "David E. Cross" cc: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:22:25 EST." Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:25:37 -0800 Message-ID: <22350.878091937@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > > > > The (direct?) X extension on newer versions of xfree86 isn't so bad. > > Maybye you should take a look into it. I think it lets you use shared > > memory to directly write to the x display. I used to play quake under an > > extension like this in linux, I am sure it is standard these days. With > > the sysvshm working it wasn't at all bad. > > Yes, it is very 'standard' these days, it is the MIT-SHM extension to X11. > The only servers that I have come across that HAVEN'T supported this are He's not talking about MIT-SHM, which is only used (and useful) for very limited things, like sharing pixmap info with XShmGetPixmap() (or whatever the extention call is named - something to that effect). He's talking about the DGA extention which is *not* standard, I don't believe that Xaccel or MetroX (the only 2 non-XFree86 servers I can think of at the moment) support it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 18:26:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11486 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:26:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11479 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:26:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20846; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:27:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710290227.SAA20846@implode.root.com> To: Mikael Karpberg cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:29:12 +0100." <199710290229.DAA07708@ocean.campus.luth.se> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:27:42 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> In order to update the memory, the ECC must be recalculated over the >> entire 64bit quadword. This escentially means that you have to read the >> memory first, apply the changes/calculate the new ECC and then write it >> back. Obviously,this makes memory writes quite a bit slower. > >Hmm... It's still not quite clear to me. That is, does this slow my >computer down, in case I use ECC? Yes. >It seems to me all this could be done on the DIMM/SIMM, or something, >possibly clocked at multiple of the bus clockspeed, and therefor >not effect the rate at which memory could be read/written over the bus >by the CPU. It may seem that way, but it isn't. :-) >If that's not the case, and the computer is actually slowed down by ECC, >how much performace do you loose? 0.1%? 5%? 30%? Probably less than 5%, but it will depend on the application. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 18:27:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11528 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:27:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11520 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:27:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-46.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.46]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA02520 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:27:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA20833 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:46:26 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199710290146.TAA20833@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: new ports selection option of install In-reply-to: Message from "Jordan K. Hubbard" of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:46:02 PST." <18322.878064362@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:46:25 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is it just me, or is the ports selection option, as it stands in 2.2.5 > > (and last I checked in 3.0) rather... useless? > > I think it's just you. Nobody else has complained, and I certainly > find it damn useful to have the *entire* ports collection stored as a > single 4.3MB file which can be unpacked at any time (and I use it all > the time, even though it does take a fair while to unpack all those > files). I *like* having the entire ports collection. It does take a while to explode the tar file, mostly because of all the little files its creating. Noticed quite a while back my tape drive quit spooling when extracting /usr/ports. If the fs guys want an interesting benchmark, benchmark a recursive copy of /usr/ports. The ports are so useful to me, that when somebody at work asks about a utility to do this or that, the first place I look is in my /usr/ports. Find something interesting there, its trivial to download and play with. If it works, then the hard work starts as they'll want it under Solaris or Irix.... Now packages are another thing. *I* don't have much use for Japanese, Russian, or Korean packages. Am glad to know they exist. Deleting those gets FreeBSD down to single CD size. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 18:40:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12316 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:40:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12304 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:40:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA22467; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:40:23 -0800 (PST) To: "Pedro Giffuni S." cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:49:07 GMT." <34568803.723DA1BC@asme.org> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:40:22 -0800 Message-ID: <22463.878092822@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > http://www.talula.demon.co.uk/allegro/ > Soren Schmidt says this could be easy to put on top of libvgl :-). Go Pedro Go! When can we see your first release? ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 18:41:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12356 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:41:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12345 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:41:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA07742; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:48:41 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710290248.DAA07742@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: more general checksum command, replacing md5? In-Reply-To: from Brandon Gillespie at "Oct 28, 97 06:57:29 pm" To: brandon@roguetrader.com (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:48:41 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Brandon Gillespie: > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > > According to Brandon Gillespie: > > > Just curious, with the inclusion of SHS hashing in crypt(), would anybody > > > consider a generalized checksum command? It wouldn't be too hard to make > > > a general 'cs' or 'checksum' command that accepts arguments to determine > > > the algorithm being used... ala: > > > > Er... Why not, in that case, just add those options to the chsum program? > > Because the checksum program is 'md5' I meant the 'cksum' program, ofcourse. And as you say, the one used is the md5 program. That should have been an option in 'cksum' too, instead, I think. Ofcourse, it could detect name started with to auto-select algorithm. That way md5 could be made a hardlink to cksum. /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 18:57:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA13381 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:57:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dragon.awen.com (dragon.awen.com [207.33.155.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA13375 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mburgett@dragon.awen.com) Received: (from mburgett@localhost) by dragon.awen.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18297; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:56:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710290256.SAA18297@dragon.awen.com> From: "Mike Burgett" To: "dg@root.com" Cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 97 18:56:54 -0800 Reply-To: "Mike Burgett" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Parity Ram Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:29:28 -0800, David Greenman wrote: >In order to update the memory, the ECC must be recalculated over >the entire 64bit quadword. This escentially means that you have to read >the memory first, apply the changes/calculate the new ECC and then write >it back. Obviously, this makes memory writes quite a bit slower. Ummm. Hmmmm. Doesn't the memory subsystem interact with the L2 cache on a per-line basis anyway? IOW, a cache line is read in anytime a byte is accessed, and when it's time to write, the line is either dirty, or it isn't, and if it is, the whole thing is burst back to memory anyway... I thought the (slight) performance penalty was to allow a clock or two for the new ECC to be calculated, not because a write occurred. Then again, maybe it's just me. :) (Or maybe the PC is different from other hardware I've been more intimate with...) --Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 19:15:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14251 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:15:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA14246 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:15:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA18543; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:13:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:13:38 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Mikael Karpberg cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-Reply-To: <199710290128.CAA07569@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > [...Discussion on ECC/parity/no-parity memory...] > > I seem to recall something about partiy and/or ECC memory having slower > access rates, or something, and therefor being a bad thing preformace-wise > but a good thing safety-wise? > > I don't know where I got this, but could anyone with knowledge in the > subject maybe enlighten me on the amount of truth behind this? They're not slower, but it takes a smallish amount of time to actually do the matrix math, to check each word recovered from memory for errors. If you had to do it by hand, you'd be astounded it can be done so quickly by machine, but it _does_ take a little time there. The access times the same as other ram, it's the calculation that slows things a little. > > /Mikael > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 19:21:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14561 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from roguetrader.com (brandon@cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA14550 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:21:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@roguetrader.com) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by roguetrader.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA22956; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:21:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:21:47 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: Mikael Karpberg cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more general checksum command, replacing md5? In-Reply-To: <199710290248.DAA07742@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > According to Brandon Gillespie: > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Mikael Karpberg wrote: > > > > > According to Brandon Gillespie: > > > > Just curious, with the inclusion of SHS hashing in crypt(), would anybody > > > > consider a generalized checksum command? It wouldn't be too hard to make > > > > a general 'cs' or 'checksum' command that accepts arguments to determine > > > > the algorithm being used... ala: > > > > > > Er... Why not, in that case, just add those options to the chsum program? > > > > Because the checksum program is 'md5' > > I meant the 'cksum' program, ofcourse. And as you say, the one used is the > md5 program. That should have been an option in 'cksum' too, instead, I > think. Ofcourse, it could detect name started with to auto-select algorithm. > That way md5 could be made a hardlink to cksum. Ahh, I couldn't find cksum last time I checked... Hmm, and its POSIX... To fit within posix-ness, what about making the checksum CRC be similar to the passwd format.. namely, $TOKEN$HASH, where TOKEN is MD5, SHS or whatever... So: > md5 foof MD5 (foof) = edcee025269de378b1ce4714dcb97326 > cksum -md5 foof $MD5$edcee025269de378b1ce4714dcb97326 41658 foof How does POSIX look at expanding the functionality of a POSIX command? I.e. if it supports all POSIX functionality, but adds more? -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 19:53:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16277 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:53:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16241 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:52:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mouth@ibm.net) Received: from slip129-37-195-113.nc.us.ibm.net (slip129-37-195-113.nc.us.ibm.net [129.37.195.113]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA160472 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:52:38 GMT From: mouth@ibm.net (John Kelly) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:53:53 GMT Message-ID: <345abf0a.135742743@smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net> References: <199710290229.DAA07708@ocean.campus.luth.se> In-Reply-To: <199710290229.DAA07708@ocean.campus.luth.se> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id TAA16271 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:29:12 +0100 (CET), Mikael Karpberg wrote: >> In order to update the memory, the ECC must be recalculated over the >> entire 64bit quadword. This escentially means that you have to read the >> memory first, apply the changes/calculate the new ECC and then write it >> back. Obviously,this makes memory writes quite a bit slower. > >Hmm... It's still not quite clear to me. That is, does this slow my >computer down, in case I use ECC? > >It seems to me all this could be done on the DIMM/SIMM I believe IBM, HP, and other servers which require x40 SIMMS perform ECC without any slowdown due to calculation overhead in the memory controller, as is true of the Intel approach to ECC with x36 SIMMS and the 430HX chipset and cousins. Of course those would be high end machines not affordable for many users. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 21:15:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20204 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:15:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA20191 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:15:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 4146 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Oct 1997 05:15:10 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-100797 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19971028160109.44474@num1sun.intercore.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 21:15:10 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Robin Cutshaw Subject: Re: Perils of login.conf (Was: fsck (2.2.5-RELEASE) large filesy Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Charles Henrich , Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Robin Cutshaw; On 28-Oct-97 you wrote: ... > > >Yes, that was it. I'd like to take an assault rifle to the fellow A bit extreame :-) Although the reward belongs to fdisk default behavior when you specify an invalid drive in the -i argument (it re-arranges your boot drive!), Oh, you are being told thatthat is what happenED, but then it is too late... > After installing 2.2.5, I patched in the DPT driver so that the 9 GB > scsi drives could be accessed. I found that the "daemon" section in > login.conf does nothing during /etc/rc. I placed a ulimit -a just > before the fsck there and found that the "default" section was being I alerted this list to this problem several times. It probably should be a sysinstall parameter. I NEVER could boot without changing /etc/rc without this fix. Actually, I set it to unlimited; It is sensitive to the number of filesystems checked too. --- Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 22:43:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24618 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:43:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from pluto.senet.com.au (pluto.senet.com.au [203.11.90.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24595 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:43:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darius@holly.rd.net) Received: from holly.rd.net (c3-p19.senet.com.au [203.56.237.148]) by pluto.senet.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12496 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:59:43 +1030 Received: from holly.rd.net (localhost.rd.net [127.0.0.1]) by holly.rd.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21328 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:03:47 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710290633.RAA21328@holly.rd.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:44:01 -0800." Reply-to: doconnor@ist.flinders.edu.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:03:47 +1030 From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The (direct?) X extension on newer versions of xfree86 isn't so bad. > Maybye you should take a look into it. I think it lets you use shared > memory to directly write to the x display. I used to play quake under an > extension like this in linux, I am sure it is standard these days. With > the sysvshm working it wasn't at all bad. Or perhaps write a svgalib which uses DGA to do its drawing. There is also a vga lib replacement which uses aalib(an ascii graphics library) =) Try - http://horac.ta.jcu.cz//aa/ --------------- Daniel O'Connor 3rd Year Computer Science at Flinders University http://www.geocities.com.au/CapeCanaveral/7200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 23:06:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25865 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:06:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (wired.ctech.ac.za [155.238.4.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25858 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:06:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za) Received: from wired.ctech.ac.za (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wired.ctech.ac.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA12794 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:06:27 +0200 (SAT) Message-ID: <3456E072.794BDF32@wired.ctech.ac.za> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:06:26 +0200 From: Jacques Hugo X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: gets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ... Whenever I use gets(3) to read from stdin, I get warning: this program uses gets(), which is unsafe. The program works ok, no problem there. But I don't like that error. Is there someting else I can use, or maybe a work-around to read from stdin. Thanks -Jacuqes ------------------------------------------------------ The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" ... so I got BSD System Administrator | Jacques Hugo UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 ------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 23:41:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27858 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:41:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27852 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:41:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00328; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:41:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710290741.XAA00328@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:20:19 PST." <22163.878091619@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:41:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Unfortunately, using this also means that: > > a) You need to get X working first before the user can use > your little graphics utility, and getting X up is still > apparently too much of a chore for many people. > > b) It leaves people like myself who use Xaccel out in the cold > (and there are many FreeBSD Xaccel users out there) since > it does not and probably never will support the DGA extention. > > Setting up X using XFree86 is not a big deal and if you can setup Xaccel for sure you can setup XFree86 using XF86Setup --- that is if you can follow some simple minded instructions. The gaming world is turning to 3d accelerators such as the Voodoo chipset from http://www.3dfx.com and so far you will need to run Mesa/Glide . Mesa is an opengl clone and Glide is a thin layer to support the Voodoo chipset and so far you will need X for Mesa/Glide. 3dfx has release a Linux library which we can use with FreeBSD / linux emulation layer. I am just waiting for the release of linux Glquake 8) quake using the XFree86's DGA extension is much nicer than quake svgalib. The X shared memory extension which is standard are great for video playback. DGA plus XFree86's extension to change the resolution of the display is great for tv viewing -- you literally can turn a freebsd box in to a tv with Randall's fxtv and a bt848 based card . For further info about the FreeBSD Bt848 driver project see : http://www.freebsd.org/~ahasty/Bt848.html Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 23:44:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28066 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:44:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28058 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:44:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA04525; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:43:49 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:41:09 PST." <199710290741.XAA00328@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:43:49 -0800 Message-ID: <4521.878111029@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Setting up X using XFree86 is not a big deal and if you can setup Xaccel > for sure you can setup XFree86 using XF86Setup --- that is if > you can follow some simple minded instructions. You'd think that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, the number of users I've talked to who are still using syscons vtys either out of preference or the inability to configure X is much higher than I'd have ever expected myself. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 28 23:56:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28800 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:56:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28795 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:56:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00449; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:56:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710290756.XAA00449@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:43:49 PST." <4521.878111029@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:56:25 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, we need to find out what exactly are they having problems with. Also if people are having problems in setting up X the least they can do is post -- for now here is fine till ee hit a point in which the XFre86 team needs to get involved. Amancio > > Setting up X using XFree86 is not a big deal and if you can setup Xaccel > > for sure you can setup XFree86 using XF86Setup --- that is if > > you can follow some simple minded instructions. > > You'd think that, wouldn't you? > > Unfortunately, the number of users I've talked to who are still using > syscons vtys either out of preference or the inability to configure X > is much higher than I'd have ever expected myself. > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 00:25:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01108 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:25:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from burka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@burka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.193.193.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01097 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:25:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archer@grape.carrier.kiev.ua) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.193.193.101]) by burka.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.6/8.Who.Cares) with ESMTP id KAA21683 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:25:00 +0200 (EET) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id KAA26089 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:22:20 +0200 (EET) Received: (from archer@localhost) by grape.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13694; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:16:42 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <19971029101640.62720@grape.carrier.kiev.ua> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:16:40 +0200 From: Alexander Litvin To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Cyclades :( Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm just curious why the Cyclades are mentioned as the "first choice" in the handbook? Nobody has any problems with them? I agree -- ISA cy works. As for PCI... Though, the "funny" fact: with PCI cy our box seem to reboot (not panic) or lockup in some minutes after coming up when... we use getty! And with mgetty works. I understand that getty and mgetty use different devices, and the problem has somthing to do with that, but it simply reboots, so we don't have place to start debugging... The problem was reproduced with 4 different motherboards and 2 Cyclades cards, so problem with faulty hardware could be neglected. Tested with 2.2.1, 2.2.2, 3.0-SNAP from about the middle of August, 2.2-STABLE from some two weeks before 2.2.5. -- Litvin Alexander From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 00:39:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01791 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:39:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zerium.idgonline.no (root@oslo-3-5.newmedia.no [194.52.244.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01786 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:39:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hanspb@persbraten.vgs.no) Received: from localhost (hanspbie@zerium.newmedia.no [127.0.0.1]) by zerium.idgonline.no (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA22763; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:37:34 +0100 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:37:31 +0100 (MET) From: Hans Petter Bieker X-Sender: hanspbie@zerium.idgonline.no To: Jacques Hugo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gets In-Reply-To: <3456E072.794BDF32@wired.ctech.ac.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Jacques Hugo wrote: > The program works ok, no problem there. But I > don't like that error. Is there someting else > I can use, or maybe a work-around to read > from stdin. fgets(); -- Linux; 64bit, multi-platform, multi-tasking, multi-user, fast and Free. Microsoft Windows 95 - From the makers of EDLIN and FAT drive formatting! "Who needs horror movies when we have Microsoft"? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 01:52:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA05440 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:52:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mama.vcommunities.com (mama.vcommunities.com [207.207.69.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA05415 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:52:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from admin@mama.vcommunities.com) From: admin@mama.vcommunities.com Received: (qmail 28145 invoked by uid 200); 29 Oct 1997 09:49:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 01:49:28 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Help! Network Hanging w/ 2940UW and 2.1.7.1 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I'm having some severe problems with hanging during ftp transfers, telnet sessions, and other network connections on a system with an Adaptec 2940 ultra-wide controller and an Atlas 3 GB drive. The system completely freezes and has to be power cycled. I'm using FreeBSD 2.1.7.1-RELEASE. I've never had this problem with narrow 2940 controllers or narrow drives. Has anyone experienced this, and does anyone have any suggestions as to how to fix it? Thank you! S. Taylor, VCI Admin From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 02:43:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08181 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:43:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08173 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:43:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA10949; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:43:39 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:43:39 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Niall Smart cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Loading code from userland In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Niall Smart wrote: > On Oct 28, 5:57pm, Terry Lambert wrote: > [snip] > > FreeBSD does not support the concept of more than two protection > > domains, mostly because it aspires to run on more hardware than just > > VAX and Intel processors, and some of that hardware only supports > > two domain identities. > > I presume the two protection domains you refer to are user and supervisor > modes. > Yes. Well, they are actually kernel/userland modes if you look from the software angle. > > In practice, the LKM will need to be frequently recompiled. A > > procedurally abstract interface does not depend on structure > > references, so this is another reason to use one instead of LKM's > > (at least until there is a formal DDI/DKI specification). > > What do DDI/DDK stand for? Is there a project implementing them (you > seem to think they are useful) > DDK=Device Development Kit. And no, there is no known project (AFAIK) under way of creating such beasts. > Niall > Sander From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 02:46:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08318 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:46:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ic4.ic.dk (qmailr@t1p29.telia.dk [194.255.57.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA08309 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jacob@jblhome.ping.dk) Received: (qmail 26389 invoked from network); 29 Oct 1997 10:43:26 -0000 Received: from ic1.ic.dk (193.88.65.12) by ic4.ic.dk with SMTP; 29 Oct 1997 10:43:26 -0000 Received: from jblhome by ic1.ic.dk with UUCP id AA10431 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:44:25 +0100 Received: (from jacob@localhost) by pippin.jblhome.ping.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id LAA12246; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:42:07 +0100 (CET) To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Patches for CDE/Motif 2.1 for FreeBSD available somewhere? From: Jacob Bohn Lorensen Date: 29 Oct 1997 11:42:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: Ben Black's message of Tue, 27 May 1997 18:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <87pvooluki.fsf@pippin.jblhome.ping.dk> Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 X-Charset: ISO_8859-1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Our University has a source code license for CDE/Motif 2.1; we would like to compile and run CDE on a FreeBSD machine. Does anyone out here have patches for it? (Seems easy enough to compile the x11/ and motif/ parts... it's the cde/ part that's giving me trouble). Thanks for your time, Jacob. -- Jacob Lorensen; Mosebuen 33, 1.; DK-2820 Gentofte, Denmark; +45-31560401 PGP ID = E596F0B5; PGP Fingerprint = 1E8726467436DC4A 723B6678C5AD9E71 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 04:08:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA12138 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:08:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.firehouse.net (brian@shell.firehouse.net [209.42.203.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA12131 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@shell.firehouse.net) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by shell.firehouse.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA21096; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:07:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:07:33 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Mitchell To: Jacques Hugo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gets In-Reply-To: <3456E072.794BDF32@wired.ctech.ac.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Jacques Hugo wrote: > Hi there ... > > Whenever I use gets(3) to read from > stdin, I get > > warning: this program uses gets(), which is unsafe. in a privledged program, this will very likely let someone overwrite the stack (depending on what kind of pointer you pass to it). > > The program works ok, no problem there. But I > don't like that error. Is there someting else > I can use, or maybe a work-around to read > from stdin. > use fgets() -- pass stdin to it, remember to remove the \n if it is present. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 05:40:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA16094 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 05:40:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA16054 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 05:40:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00380; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:04:14 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710291334.AAA00380@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:25:45 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:04:12 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > is svgalib strictly a Linux thing? or do we have it too? That depends on what you're after. The 'vgl' library (2.2.5 and later) provides basic graphical operations, but isn't 'svgalib' compatabile (thank god). mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 05:41:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA16181 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 05:41:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from eddie.mit.edu (EDDIE.MIT.EDU [18.62.0.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA16166 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 05:41:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdk@ccomp.inode.COM) Received: from ccomp.inode.com by eddie.mit.edu id aa03431; 29 Oct 97 8:34 EST Received: (from gdk@localhost) by ccomp.inode.com (8.6.9/1.5) id IAA03379; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:24:16 -0500 From: Gary Kendall Message-Id: <199710291324.IAA03379@ccomp.inode.com> Subject: Re: gets To: Jacques Hugo Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:24:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.ORG In-Reply-To: <3456E072.794BDF32@wired.ctech.ac.za> from Jacques Hugo at "Oct 29, 97 09:06:26 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It wasn't too long ago that Jacques Hugo said: > Hi there ... > > Whenever I use gets(3) to read from > stdin, I get > > warning: this program uses gets(), which is unsafe. > > The program works ok, no problem there. But I > don't like that error. Is there someting else > I can use, or maybe a work-around to read > from stdin. > > Thanks > > -Jacuqes > > ------------------------------------------------------ > The box said "Requires Windows 3.1 or better" > ... so I got BSD > > System Administrator | Jacques Hugo > UNIX Systems | jacques@wired.ctech.ac.za > Cape Technikon | +27-21-4603584 > ------------------------------------------------------ > You should use fgets() so you can specify the buffer size and prevent data overruns which have the potential of "writing new code" into your program. Regards, Gary Kendall %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % The difficult is done immediately, the impossible takes a little longer. % %----------------------------------------------------------------------------% % gdk@ccomp.inode.com or gkendall@eddie.mit.edu % %----------------------------------------------------------------------------% % Creative Computing * 96 Forest Street * Danvers, MA 01923 * 978-777-3784 % %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 06:38:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19031 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:38:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from toth.hq.ferg.com (toth.ferginc.com [205.139.23.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA19024 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:38:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from branson@toth.hq.ferg.com) Received: (from branson@localhost) by toth.hq.ferg.com (You_Can/Keep_Guessing) id JAA08823; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:34:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971029093411.26844@toth.hq.ferg.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:34:11 -0500 From: Branson Matheson To: Alexander Litvin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cyclades :( Reply-To: Branson.Matheson@FergInc.com References: <19971029101640.62720@grape.carrier.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19971029101640.62720@grape.carrier.kiev.ua>; from Alexander Litvin on Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 10:16:40AM +0200 Organization: Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 10:16:40AM +0200, Alexander Litvin wrote: >> I'm just curious why the Cyclades are mentioned as the "first choice" >> in the handbook? Nobody has any problems with them? > > I agree -- ISA cy works. As for PCI... I have had some problems with them but they have been rather reliable ... the I am using four of the CY-8 PCI version.. at first there were some problems with the boards loosing half of their ports.. this seems to have gone away with the versions.. I am currently using them as console ports for my mainframes.. it allows me to connect to that machine, use watch and then be on the console. This is of great benefit. -branson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Branson Matheson " If you are falling off of a mountain, Unix System Administrator You may as well try to fly." Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. - Delenn, Mimbari Ambassador ( $statements = ) !~ /Corporate Opinion/; From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 06:52:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19833 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:52:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA19824 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:52:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA01029; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:18:15 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710291448.BAA01029@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mikael Karpberg cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Parity Ram In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:29:12 BST." <199710290229.DAA07708@ocean.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:18:14 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hmm... It's still not quite clear to me. That is, does this slow my > computer down, in case I use ECC? Slightly, yes. Unless you stand over it measuring things microscopically, you won't notice the difference. > It seems to me all this could be done on the DIMM/SIMM, or something, > possibly clocked at multiple of the bus clockspeed, and therefor > not effect the rate at which memory could be read/written over the bus > by the CPU. It's faster and cheaper to do it inside the memory pipeline. > If that's not the case, and the computer is actually slowed down by ECC, > how much performace do you loose? 0.1%? 5%? 30%? That depends; what's your system doing? The tests we did put the change down in the noise (<2%) for our workload. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 06:55:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20010 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:55:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20005 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:55:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA01063; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:21:33 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710291451.BAA01063@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Doug White cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB driver in the works? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:25:14 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:21:32 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm curious to know if anyone is currently working on a driver for > controlling USB (Universal Serial Bus) devices. If no one is, I'm > considering launching a development campaign. There have been several nibbles, but no serious progress. You should at the very least familiarise yourself with USB at the various levels before getting serious about this; it's not for the fainthearted. 8( > Assuming that Toshiba is forthcoming with the programming spec, it should > be possible to make a FreeBSD box with the appropriate drivers control it. Toshiba aren't the best when it comes to documentation, I'm afraid. Still, don't let me put you off, especially if a USB subsystem will be forthcoming. How can we help? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 08:49:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26849 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:49:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26838 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:49:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA17554; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:45:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:45:51 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Amancio Hasty cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <199710290756.XAA00449@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Personally, I think it has alot to do with whether or not the user has the full array of documentation for all their video hardware. I found it easy with all the books in front of me, but if you don't know the max refresh on your monitor, or you have an unknown video card in the system, questions about your "dot clock", etc. seem rather daunting. Perhaps pre-made configs for popular cards with "safe" monitor settings would be helpful... Charles On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Well, we need to find out what exactly are they having problems with. > > Also if people are having problems in setting up X the least they can > do is post -- for now here is fine till ee hit a point in which > the XFre86 team needs to get involved. > > Amancio > > > > > > Setting up X using XFree86 is not a big deal and if you can setup Xaccel > > > for sure you can setup XFree86 using XF86Setup --- that is if > > > you can follow some simple minded instructions. > > > > You'd think that, wouldn't you? > > > > Unfortunately, the number of users I've talked to who are still using > > syscons vtys either out of preference or the inability to configure X > > is much higher than I'd have ever expected myself. > > > > Jordan > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 10:21:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03027 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:21:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA03022 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:21:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA09392 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:04:30 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199710291704.SAA09392@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Any nice GUI for HP scanners ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:04:30 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have just bought an HP Scanject5p, which is really cheap and fast. It more or less works with the "hpscan" program that I found in the port collection, but there are probably some incompatibilities, maybe due to some commands which are not supported by the scanner. In any case, i am not completely satisfied with the GUI so am trying to write a different GUI based on tk/tcl -- it also serves me as an exercise. Is there anyone who has some code to talk to the HP ScanJet5p (or some other HP scanner) to use as a reference ? Thanks Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 10:35:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03894 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:35:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.wintek.com (mail.wintek.com [199.233.104.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03886 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:35:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from csg@wintek.com) Received: from mail.wintek.com (localhost.wintek.com [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wintek.com (8.8.7/1.34wintek(3.6davy)) with ESMTP id SAA19974; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:35:16 GMT Message-Id: <199710291835.SAA19974@mail.wintek.com> To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: try this atalk patch (for /sys/netatalk) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:35:15 -0500 From: "C. Stephen Gunn" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >If you are running netatalk, could you try these, >whether or not you are having problems? > >If they help, I'll commit them and add them to the 2.2.5 erratum directory I can not start netatalk under 2.2.5-RELEASE with these patches. I've tried them on 2-3 different machines. While you're commiting stuff to netatalk, why not put the MacOS-8 fix from http://www.umic.edu/~rsug/netatalk/patches/ in PORTS collection as well. It's annoying to add this by hand every time. :-) - Steve -- C. Stephen Gunn Wintek Corporation E-mail: csg@wintek.com 427 N 6th Street Tel: +1 (765) 742-8428 Lafayette, IN 47901-1126 Fax: +1 (765) 742-0547 United States of America From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 11:24:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06994 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:24:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06985 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:24:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA10129; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:23:09 -0800 (PST) To: spork cc: Amancio Hasty , "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:45:51 EST." Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:23:09 -0800 Message-ID: <10125.878152989@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Personally, I think it has alot to do with whether or not the user has the > full array of documentation for all their video hardware. I found it easy > with all the books in front of me, but if you don't know the max refresh > on your monitor, or you have an unknown video card in the system, > questions about your "dot clock", etc. seem rather daunting. I have news for you - most folks don't have any CLUE as to what kind of video card is in their machine. They bought it from some box shifter, have usually never even opened it up and wouldn't know the video card from the ethernet interface even if they did. I think I'm going to ask if Amancio would like to man Walnut Creek CDROM's tech support lines for a month or something - I think he'd find this experience very enlightening in the face of his "most people shouldn't have any problems getting into X" statement. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 11:28:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07245 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from global.com (global.com [206.40.50.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07240 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:28:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gopu@global.com) Message-ID: <34578D90.F83245A7@global.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:25:04 -0800 From: Gopakumar H Pillai Organization: Global Automation Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Help in data recovery Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am a sysadmin, fairly new to the job. The OS is FreeBSD 2.2.2. I had a disk sd0s1e of 2GB and sd1s1e of 1GB. In the process of finding out the device name of the tape drive I did a "tar cvf rsd0 /tmp". The amount of data I have written over the raw disk is about 20K. This disk has /usr. I need to retrieve /usr, mainly my mails in /usr/home. How should I go about it? I retrieved sd1s1e, i.e. /var and got the /var/mail. I cannot mount or fsck this device since it complains, improper superblock. I have another machine with similar partitioning, would that help? Also how can I make an exact image of the ruined disk on another one of the same hardware configuration? -- --Gopu (gopu@global.com) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 11:50:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08575 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08569 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:50:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02594; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:50:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710291950.LAA02594@rah.star-gate.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: spork , Amancio Hasty , "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:23:09 PST." <10125.878152989@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:50:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The problem can still be contained by way of knowing the PCI ID of the graphic card so at the very least XF86setup can limit the query to a few cards if not just one. The monitor setup is a little easier to manage by having a database of popular models and modes for the VESA monitors. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 11:56:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA09084 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:56:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09079 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:56:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02637; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:55:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710291955.LAA02637@rah.star-gate.com> To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Any nice GUI for HP scanners ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:04:30 +0100." <199710291704.SAA09392@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:55:39 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I use "sane" plus gimp for scanning / image manipulation / printing 8) Just look up linux sane or the home page for gimp to locate sane. sane is mostly oriented towards scsi scanners however there is a scsi hp scanner module in the sane distribution. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 12:04:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09613 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:04:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09608 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:04:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA10605; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:03:25 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: spork , "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:50:09 PST." <199710291950.LAA02594@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:03:25 -0800 Message-ID: <10601.878155405@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The problem can still be contained by way of knowing the PCI ID of the > graphic card so at the very least XF86setup can limit the query to > a few cards if not just one. The monitor setup is a little easier to > manage by having a database of popular models and modes for the > VESA monitors. ... and I'm sure that the XFree86 folks would just love your help in doing that in a fashion which works on a reasonable number of the operating systems they support. :-) Otherwise, the chances of this actually happening are close to nil, I suspect. We've been waiting for a more automatic setup tool for X for literally years now, and if any improvements have been done it's been primarily to make the manual setup process a bit more palatable, not more automatic. Everyone agrees that it should be done, nobody writes the code. :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 12:04:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09643 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09621; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:04:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21767; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:04:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd021758; Wed Oct 29 13:04:11 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA17154; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:04:04 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710292004.NAA17154@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help with fstat? To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:04:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710282204.RAA17354@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Oct 28, 97 05:04:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > It doesn't 'discard', but should either deactivate or cache the page. > > > > > > Pages are usually pretty darned unused by the time they are on the > > > inactive or cache queues. > > > > Ie: what effect does MADV_SEQUENTIAL have on cache thrashing? > > It improves it. The system works better. Ugh. We aren't communicating. If I have a clean page on the LRU already, will the MADV_SEQUENTIAL prevent a byte-based traversal of an mmap()'ed file larger than memory+swap from discarding my page? My desired behaviour is to that the system not force out my clean page in favor of the more recently used, but never again to be referenced, pages of an MADV_SEQUENTIAL file. I want the system to *not* preferentially save newer pages than mine, if the newer pages came from an MADV_SEQUENTIAL marked region, and my page did not. I'd consider normal use of the LRU by pages from an MADV_SEQUENTIAL marked region to be "cache thrashing", by definition. I'd like it to *reuse* pages in that region before going to the LRU and endangering the "in core" state of my page. Ideally, there would never be more than two pages in a MADV_SEQUENTIAL marked region in real memory or swap at any one time: The page that was previously accessed, and the page that was just accessed. Really, I want per object working set quotas, and I want MADV_SEQUENTIAL to set the quota on the backing object to two pages, but that's more of an implementation detail. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 12:12:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10302 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10295 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:12:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14399; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:12:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014388; Wed Oct 29 13:12:33 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA18109; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:12:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710292012.NAA18109@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Parity Ram To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:12:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710290229.DAA07708@ocean.campus.luth.se> from "Mikael Karpberg" at Oct 29, 97 03:29:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In order to update the memory, the ECC must be recalculated over the > > entire 64bit quadword. This escentially means that you have to read the > > memory first, apply the changes/calculate the new ECC and then write it > > back. Obviously,this makes memory writes quite a bit slower. > > Hmm... It's still not quite clear to me. That is, does this slow my > computer down, in case I use ECC? > > It seems to me all this could be done on the DIMM/SIMM, or something, > possibly clocked at multiple of the bus clockspeed, and therefor > not effect the rate at which memory could be read/written over the bus > by the CPU. I'd personally think using a static column dram would do the trick... Also, there's no real reson the write can't return and leave the cell calculating the ECC on it's on. It would make rereferencing the area take a wait, possibly, if the rereference was immediate. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 12:39:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12269 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from icicle.winternet.com (adm@icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12253 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:38:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mestery@mail.winternet.com) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA16071; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:34:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from tundra.winternet.com(198.174.169.11) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015988; Wed, 29 Oct 97 14:34:36 -0600 Received: from localhost (mestery@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA27417; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:34:35 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: tundra.winternet.com: mestery owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:34:35 -0600 (CST) From: Kyle Mestery To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: spork , Amancio Hasty , "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <10125.878152989@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I think I'm going to ask if Amancio would like to man Walnut Creek > CDROM's tech support lines for a month or something - I think he'd > find this experience very enlightening in the face of his "most people > shouldn't have any problems getting into X" statement. :-) > >From what I have seen, most people not only have a lot of trouble with setting up their video card for X, but have even more trouble with their mice, especially if it is a PS/2 mouse. Those critters seem to give lots of headaches to new users. Kyle Mestery StorageTek's Network Systems Group 7600 Boone Ave. N., Minneapolis, MN 55428 mesteka@anubis.network.com, mestery@winternet.com "You do not greet Death, you punch him in the throat repeatedly until he drags you away." --No Fear From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 12:40:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12487 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:40:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12480 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:40:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00516; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:44:53 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:44:52 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any nice GUI for HP scanners ? In-Reply-To: <199710291704.SAA09392@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Hi, > > I have just bought an HP Scanject5p, which is really cheap and fast. > > It more or less works with the "hpscan" program that I found in the > port collection, but there are probably some incompatibilities, maybe > due to some commands which are not supported by the scanner. > > In any case, i am not completely satisfied with the GUI so am trying > to write a different GUI based on tk/tcl -- it also serves me as an > exercise. > > Is there anyone who has some code to talk to the HP ScanJet5p (or some > other HP scanner) to use as a reference ? There are at least two programs of this kind - xvscan (commercial, based on xv, by tummy.com) and SANE which is a common framework for scanners and other image input devices handling (http://www.mostang.com/sane/). -- Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 12:57:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA13656 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:57:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (DOZY6i9gvBSFx6Plkw67QUsktaeQYnhQ@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA13650 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:57:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([Gaf7PZncXCDWA/L0g6Ja6juj+LQAFsor]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xQf5D-0004vw-00; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:51:19 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xQf52-0006j9-00; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:51:08 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:51:08 +0000 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: help with fstat?" (Oct 29, 8:04pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: help with fstat? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 29, 8:04pm, Terry Lambert wrote: > If I have a clean page on the LRU already, will the MADV_SEQUENTIAL > prevent a byte-based traversal of an mmap()'ed file larger than > memory+swap from discarding my page? > > My desired behaviour is to that the system not force out my clean > page in favor of the more recently used, but never again to be > referenced, pages of an MADV_SEQUENTIAL file. > > I want the system to *not* preferentially save newer pages than mine, > if the newer pages came from an MADV_SEQUENTIAL marked region, and > my page did not. I'd consider normal use of the LRU by pages from > an MADV_SEQUENTIAL marked region to be "cache thrashing", by definition. > > I'd like it to *reuse* pages in that region before going to the LRU > and endangering the "in core" state of my page. Does FreeBSD maintain a "free page" list internally that it will consult before trying the heuristics for replacing a page? If this is so then when we page in a page for a memory mapped region with the MADV_SEQUENTIAL attribute we can immediately add the previous page to the "free page" list. If there is no such "free page" list then perhaps it would be prudent to introduce one or somehow modify the page replacement heuristics to take into account those pages the we are pretty sure will never be used again - perhaps they can be folded into the bottom of the LRU list. As I know absolutely nothing about FreeBSD's memory management internals and don't have the time or source to check the above comments may be entirely useless. Niall From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 13:33:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA16712 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA16690 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:33:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06629; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:37:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:37:49 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: Gopakumar H Pillai cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help in data recovery In-Reply-To: <34578D90.F83245A7@global.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk this doesn't seem trivial because you have overwritten the partition imformation on the drive, the only solution i see is if you can find a utility for scanning a disk for what could possibly be the begging of a partition... i don't know of such a util though... anyone? On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Gopakumar H Pillai wrote: > I am a sysadmin, fairly new to the job. The OS is FreeBSD 2.2.2. I had a > disk sd0s1e of 2GB and sd1s1e of 1GB. In the process of finding out the > device name of the tape drive I did a "tar cvf rsd0 /tmp". The amount of > data I have written over the raw disk is about 20K. This disk has /usr. > I need to retrieve /usr, mainly my mails in /usr/home. How should I go > about it? > > I retrieved sd1s1e, i.e. /var and got the /var/mail. > > I cannot mount or fsck this device since it complains, improper > superblock. I have another machine with similar partitioning, would that > help? > > Also how can I make an exact image of the ruined disk on another one of > the same hardware configuration? > > -- > --Gopu (gopu@global.com) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 13:41:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17270 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:41:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17255 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06661 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:45:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:45:40 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: IDE over scsi? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk has anyone heard of a device that you can put an IDE drive on, that will convert its interface to scsi? sort of like a more intellegent bus mastering IDE controller? .________________________________________________________________________ __ _ |Alfred Perlstein - Programming & SysAdmin --"Have you seen my FreeBSD tatoo?" |perlsta@sunyit.edu --"who was that masked admin?" |http://www.cs.sunyit.edu/~perlsta : ' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 13:50:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17978 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17942 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:49:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA02431; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:48:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:48:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Alexander Litvin cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cyclades :( In-Reply-To: <19971029101640.62720@grape.carrier.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... Maybye you should let Cyclades do the drivers. They might work then. > I'm just curious why the Cyclades are mentioned as the "first choice" > in the handbook? Nobody has any problems with them? > > I agree -- ISA cy works. As for PCI... > > Though, the "funny" fact: with PCI cy our box seem to reboot > (not panic) or lockup in some minutes after coming up when... > we use getty! And with mgetty works. I understand that getty > and mgetty use different devices, and the problem has somthing > to do with that, but it simply reboots, so we don't have > place to start debugging... > > The problem was reproduced with 4 different motherboards and 2 > Cyclades cards, so problem with faulty hardware could be > neglected. Tested with 2.2.1, 2.2.2, 3.0-SNAP from about the > middle of August, 2.2-STABLE from some two weeks before 2.2.5. > > -- > Litvin Alexander > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 13:52:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18196 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:52:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from server.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18179 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:52:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by server.local.sunyit.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06671 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:57:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: server.local.sunyit.edu: perlsta owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:57:26 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: perlsta@server.local.sunyit.edu To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (i hope no one takes offence at this, please badger me and show me where i can find stuff to answer this) This discussion has drifted towards the idea of making FreeBSD easier to setup, i don't agree much with this, not that it is a bad idea, however more important features need to be looked at (although /stand/sysinstall dying all the time is kinda annoying) specifically here's my gripe with FreeBSD and the XFree86 peoples, COMMENT YOUR CODE A LITTLE MORE DAMMIT :) I've been doing low level programming on a M$DOS platform for a long time and i feel my skills could be of some use to FreeBSD, but just looking through the source is sorta a nightmare. It's like watching a soap that's been on for years for the first time, you have no idea what sort of dependancies are going on and which device driver is sleeping with whom... :) it's not just tracing through the code, i know the structure allows for such great things as CVSups and other methods of updating the sourcecode, but some simple documentation explaining how to not only make code for freebsd, but something that is compadible with the structures already in place would be nice... (i'm going to hide for a few days now) -Alfred On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Kyle Mestery wrote: > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I think I'm going to ask if Amancio would like to man Walnut Creek > > CDROM's tech support lines for a month or something - I think he'd > > find this experience very enlightening in the face of his "most people > > shouldn't have any problems getting into X" statement. :-) > > > > >From what I have seen, most people not only have a lot of trouble with > setting up their video card for X, but have even more trouble with their > mice, especially if it is a PS/2 mouse. Those critters seem to give lots > of headaches to new users. > > Kyle Mestery > StorageTek's Network Systems Group > 7600 Boone Ave. N., Minneapolis, MN 55428 > mesteka@anubis.network.com, mestery@winternet.com > > "You do not greet Death, you punch him in the throat > repeatedly until he drags you away." --No Fear > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:02:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18848 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18837 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:02:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA24066 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:02:34 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA00312 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:59:55 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199710292159.WAA00312@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: looking for Diamond Stealth expert.. To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:59:55 +0100 (MET) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I got hold of this Diamond Stealth 64 card. Currently has 8 VRAM chips, and 8 empty sockets. Chip is S3 Vision964. AFAIK this is a 2Mb board, the empty sockets allow upgrade to 4Mb. Thing is, SuperProbe sez it has 1024k ?????? Any clue? See below for the SuperProbe output. Wilko SuperProbe Version 2.11 (Oct 20 1996) (c) Copyright 1993,1994 by David Wexelblat This work is derived from the 'vgadoc2.zip' and 'vgadoc3.zip' documentation packages produced by Finn Thoegersen, and released with all appropriate permissions having been obtained. Additional information obtained from 'Programmer's Guide to the EGA and VGA, 2nd ed', by Richard Ferraro, and from manufacturer's data books The author welcomes bug reports and other comments mailed to the electronic mail address above. In particular, reports of chipsets that this program fails to correctly detect are appreciated. Before submitting a report, please make sure that you have the latest version of SuperProbe (see http://www.xfree86.org/FAQ). BIOS Base address = 0xC0000 Doing Super-VGA Probes... Probing WD... Probing Video7... Probing MX... Probing Genoa... Probing UMC... Probing Trident... Probing SiS... Probing ATI... Probing Ahead... Probing NCR... Probing S3... First video: Super-VGA Chipset: S3 Vision964 (PCI Probed) Memory: 1024 Kbytes RAMDAC: BrookTree Bt485 24-bit TrueColor DAC w/cursor,pixel-mux (with 6-bit wide lookup tables (or in 6-bit mode)) (programmable for 6/8-bit wide lookup tables) _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' ------------------ Support your local daemons: run FreeBSD Unix -----Yoda From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:02:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18871 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:02:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18847 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:02:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA21873 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:02:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:02:13 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Kyle Mestery wrote: > From what I have seen, most people not only have a lot of trouble with > setting up their video card for X, but have even more trouble with their > mice, especially if it is a PS/2 mouse. Those critters seem to give lots > of headaches to new users. My video card setup was a breeze, but I never did get my mouse working as a PS/2 . . . probably because I had a spare serial port and a serial adapter for the mouse (a Logitech MouseMan, and a very nice mouse indeed), and so I took the easy way out. > Kyle Mestery > StorageTek's Network Systems Group > 7600 Boone Ave. N., Minneapolis, MN 55428 > mesteka@anubis.network.com, mestery@winternet.com > > "You do not greet Death, you punch him in the throat > repeatedly until he drags you away." --No Fear Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:12:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19609 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:12:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19599 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:12:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.7.3) id XAA00392 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:12:37 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199710292212.XAA00392@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Multi CD CDROM drive support added to current To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:12:37 +0100 (MET) From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For those that dont read the commit logs: First cut at supporting multi-CD CDROM drives (changers). Very rudimentary, lots of error checks missing, but it works. Dont do an ls on two different CD's though, it will eat your changer mechanism for lunch :), this clearly needs some more thought. Until then this will enable those with changers to mount their multible CD's and doing "sensible" work.... Thanks to Andrew Gordon for donating a drive (a NEC CDR-C251 4x4) that makes this possible to develop. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:15:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19790 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:15:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19777 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02642; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:14:54 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id QAA11490; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:14:22 -0600 Message-ID: <19971029161422.12013@right.PCS> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:14:22 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Sunthiti Patchararungruang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel modification References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Sunthiti Patchararungruang on Oct 10, 1997 at 10:19:26PM +0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 10, 1997 at 10:19:26PM +0700, Sunthiti Patchararungruang wrote: > First of all. I would like to appologize that this mail is > off-topic of yours but I don't know where to post it to. For this type of thing, hackers@freebsd.org would probably be the most appropriate place. > program on FreeBSD2.2.2. It need to copy a data link frame from an > interface to another one. The data frame must not be changed even in > ethernet address field. I use BPF. I have found that the system always > change my ethernet source address to the address of the output interface. AFAIK, this is correct. I believe that the Ethernet specification requires that the source MAC address in the ethernet frame correspond to the hardware address of the transmitting device. I can't see why you would want to re-transmit with the original MAC address; this would cause arp lookups to fail, among other things. Even bridges put their own MAC address in the frame. > However, I have corrected the problem. I modified the kernel, already > attach all files with this mail, to add two things. They are: In the future, it would probably be better to submit something as a diff against a specified FreeBSD revision, instead of sending the files in their entirety. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:44:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA21575 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:44:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (dkelly@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21558 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:44:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@fly.HiWAAY.net) Received: (from dkelly@localhost) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) id QAA07007; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:43:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:43:59 -0600 (CST) From: David Kelly Message-Id: <199710292243.QAA07007@fly.HiWAAY.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu Subject: Re: IDE over scsi? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > has anyone heard of a device that you can put an IDE drive on, that will > convert its interface to scsi? > > sort of like a more intellegent bus mastering IDE controller? Several Mac SCSI vendors were recently selling notebook IDE drives with an IDE to SCSI adapter so they could be used in Mac laptops. http://www.apstech.com was one of them. Didn't see it on their site just now, but that doesn't mean much. Don't know how much good you think it would do. Wouldn't be surprised to learn this adapter was a very bad SCSI neighbor and bus hog. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net (hm) ====================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:49:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA21936 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:49:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21928 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:49:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA16971; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:49:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:49:28 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Jonathan Lemon cc: Sunthiti Patchararungruang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel modification In-Reply-To: <19971029161422.12013@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > program on FreeBSD2.2.2. It need to copy a data link frame from an > > interface to another one. The data frame must not be changed even in > > ethernet address field. I use BPF. I have found that the system always > > change my ethernet source address to the address of the output interface. > > AFAIK, this is correct. I believe that the Ethernet specification > requires that the source MAC address in the ethernet frame correspond > to the hardware address of the transmitting device. > > I can't see why you would want to re-transmit with the original MAC > address; this would cause arp lookups to fail, among other things. > > Even bridges put their own MAC address in the frame. > The ether switches that we have here keep the orignial source frame. In my understanding of the INTENT of MAC addresses, it would make more sense for bridges, switches to keep the original source address, else it would have to broadcast (or at least multicast) the responce on the other side of the interface (how would it know which MAC address the packet wsa 'really' destined for? -- David Cros ACS Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:54:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA22245 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:54:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22240 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA14315; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:54:08 -0800 (PST) To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:57:26 EST." Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:54:07 -0800 Message-ID: <14312.878165647@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > specifically here's my gripe with FreeBSD and the XFree86 peoples, COMMENT > YOUR CODE A LITTLE MORE DAMMIT :) While you're wishing, how about saying a short one for world peace, too? Thanks. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:56:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA22360 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:56:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22301; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:55:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA00892; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:54:27 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710292254.RAA00892@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: <199710292004.NAA17154@usr07.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 29, 97 08:04:04 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:54:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, tlambert@primenet.com, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, angio@angio.net, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > Ideally, there would never be more than two pages in a MADV_SEQUENTIAL > marked region in real memory or swap at any one time: The page that > was previously accessed, and the page that was just accessed. > > > Really, I want per object working set quotas, and I want MADV_SEQUENTIAL > to set the quota on the backing object to two pages, but that's more of > an implementation detail. > I don't think that working set quotas are necessarily a good idea. The term "working set quota" is an interesting one anyway. Do you mean in-memory quota or mapped quota??? Our MADV_SEQUENTIAL mode attempts to deactivate or cache read pages. Cached pages are fair game. This whole thing starts bringing up the spectre of working set mgmt, and the folly of VMS and NT. PS. Terry, have you actually tried the sequential mode that we use? -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 14:59:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA22649 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:59:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA22630 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:59:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02415; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:25:54 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710292255.JAA02415@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:57:26 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:25:51 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (i hope no one takes offence at this, please badger me and show me where i > can find stuff to answer this) CVS logs. "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System". -hackers list archive. > specifically here's my gripe with FreeBSD and the XFree86 peoples, COMMENT > YOUR CODE A LITTLE MORE DAMMIT :) Are you complaining about FreeBSD code, or legacy CSRG code, or code from some other source? If you want to undertake to comment all that old hair that nobody else ever did, please do! > it's not just tracing through the code, i know the structure allows for > such great things as CVSups and other methods of updating the sourcecode, > but some simple documentation explaining how to not only make code for > freebsd, but something that is compadible with the structures already in > place would be nice... There is no "simple documentation" because it's not "simple", and the effort of producing such documentation is pretty monstrous. In most cases, the code is actually quite bearably followable, and once you learn your way around the system it only gets better. However, if you want to write "BSD Kernel Source for Dummies", go right ahead... mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 15:22:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24046 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:22:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24036 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:22:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17059; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd017053; Wed Oct 29 23:16:48 1997 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:15:07 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Alfred Perlstein cc: Gopakumar H Pillai , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help in data recovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk if it's only 20k then you MAY have some success. here's what I would do.. dd the entire drive as it stands now, onto a backup medium. possibly the following might work: dd if=/dev/rsd0 | gzip |dd of=/dev/rst0 THEN: try format the drive in exactly the same way you did the first time (did you do it after or during install?) (how long ago?) (do you rememeber how you did it and what you copied on first?) did you use "dangerously dedicated mode?" if not then you will probably recover ALL info. dd the first 32 K of that to a file somewhere. restore the saved copy of the original mess, (dd if=/dev/nrst0 |gunzip|dd of=/dev/rsd0) try doing the following: dd if=[saved 32k] of=/dev/rsd0 count=1 see what that does. if that works you must have not had 'dangerously dedicated mode' and you were saved by the fact that there are 63 blocks of unused space between block 0 and the disklabel. if you DID use 'dangerously dedicated mode' then increase the number of blocks you are writing back to 16 this will write on a 'plausible' disklabel. use fsck -b 32 /dev/rsd1a to try get a backup superblock. if that doesn't work, you may need to find where the next one is. (you should have gotten a list when you 'newfs'd the drive in thes earlier step). keep increasing the number of blocks by 1 to see if that helps, and run fsck.. after each iteration restore the image from the tape. best I can suggest for now.. (alternatively, you could try: fdisk -iu /dev/nrst0 and use the figures that are given by fdisk for your other drive. that might fix it in one ht (if you didn't do 'dangerously dedicated) the most important bit is: MAKE A BACKUP OF YOUR SMASHED DISK IMAGE! (as shown above) julian On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > this doesn't seem trivial because you have overwritten the partition > imformation on the drive, the only solution i see is if you can find a > utility for scanning a disk for what could possibly be the begging of a > partition... i don't know of such a util though... > > anyone? > > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Gopakumar H Pillai wrote: > > > I am a sysadmin, fairly new to the job. The OS is FreeBSD 2.2.2. I had a > > disk sd0s1e of 2GB and sd1s1e of 1GB. In the process of finding out the > > device name of the tape drive I did a "tar cvf rsd0 /tmp". The amount of > > data I have written over the raw disk is about 20K. This disk has /usr. > > I need to retrieve /usr, mainly my mails in /usr/home. How should I go > > about it? > > > > I retrieved sd1s1e, i.e. /var and got the /var/mail. > > > > I cannot mount or fsck this device since it complains, improper > > superblock. I have another machine with similar partitioning, would that > > help? > > > > Also how can I make an exact image of the ruined disk on another one of > > the same hardware configuration? > > > > -- > > --Gopu (gopu@global.com) > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 15:34:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24904 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:34:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24887 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:34:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17370; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd017364; Wed Oct 29 23:25:12 1997 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:23:31 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: S?ren Schmidt cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Multi CD CDROM drive support added to current In-Reply-To: <199710292212.XAA00392@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA24898 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One modification you might consider is an interlock, where once it has accepted a command for one drive, it only queues (and doesn't execute) commands for the other drives for some period (e.g. 2 seconds) and then swap, julian On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, S?ren Schmidt wrote: > For those that dont read the commit logs: > > First cut at supporting multi-CD CDROM drives (changers). > > Very rudimentary, lots of error checks missing, but it works. > Dont do an ls on two different CD's though, it will eat your > changer mechanism for lunch :), this clearly needs some more > thought. Until then this will enable those with changers to > mount their multible CD's and doing "sensible" work.... > > Thanks to Andrew Gordon for donating a drive > (a NEC CDR-C251 4x4) that makes this possible to develop. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 17:55:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03965 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03960 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp id AA03057; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:55:04 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id LAA09472; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:01:29 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199710300201.LAA09472@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Snob Art Genre Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:02:13 EST." References: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:01:28 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> From what I have seen, most people not only have a lot of trouble with >> setting up their video card for X, but have even more trouble with their >> mice, especially if it is a PS/2 mouse. Those critters seem to give lots >> of headaches to new users. > >My video card setup was a breeze, but I never did get my mouse working as >a PS/2 . . . probably because I had a spare serial port and a serial >adapter for the mouse (a Logitech MouseMan, and a very nice mouse indeed), >and so I took the easy way out. Hmm, it is very easy to set up the PS/2 mouse either for XFree86 or moused, so long as this rule is followed: When you connect the mouse to the PS/2 mouse port, specify "PS/2" as the protocol type REGARDLESS of the model and manufacturer of the mouse. This is clearly stated in the man page of XF86Config(4/5). Various README files also say the user should refer to this man page. But unfortunately s/he either doesn't read it or doesn't know his/her mouse is of the PS/2 type... Kazu PS: I am currently working on mouse drivers and moused so that moused and XFree86 will be identify appropriate mouse protocol automatically. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 18:00:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04177 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:00:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04120 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:59:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id BAA17792; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:58:34 GMT Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:58:34 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Alfred Perlstein cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) In-Reply-To: <199710292255.JAA02415@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > specifically here's my gripe with FreeBSD and the XFree86 peoples, COMMENT > > YOUR CODE A LITTLE MORE DAMMIT :) More comments aren't necessarily better. Wrong comments are worse then no comments and more comments can lead to that. If want to rip on something, go thru the cvs logs and rip on useless comments. If you want to encourage something push for better meaningful comments. Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 18:05:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04472 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA04464 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xQjwv-0001Wb-00; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:03:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:02:59 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IDE over scsi? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > has anyone heard of a device that you can put an IDE drive on, that will > convert its interface to scsi? > > sort of like a more intellegent bus mastering IDE controller? Yes, there are several of these. They all support several IDE drives simultaneously. Generally they include some kind of RAID functionality too. The idea is to use cheap IDE disks for RAID, and use RAID to improve performance and reliability of those cheap disks. > .________________________________________________________________________ __ _ > |Alfred Perlstein - Programming & SysAdmin --"Have you seen my FreeBSD tatoo?" > |perlsta@sunyit.edu --"who was that masked admin?" > |http://www.cs.sunyit.edu/~perlsta > : > ' > > > Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 18:11:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04865 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:11:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04856 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:11:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01513; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:12:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710300212.SAA01513@implode.root.com> To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: Alexander Litvin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cyclades :( In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:48:42 PST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:12:59 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >... Maybye you should let Cyclades do the drivers. They might work then. Jamil, this comment is without merit and does absolutely nothing to help with the problem. Cyclades is quite familiar with the driver in FreeBSD and has done extensive testing with both the ISA and PCI product under FreeBSD. They haven't seen any problems in their testing, but of course that doesn't mean that a problem doesn't exist. The device driver for the PCI version is the same driver that the ISA card uses, the only difference is that the PCI front-end memory-maps the registers into the address space at device attach time. There might be a hardware problem with the PCI interface that is causing the reboots, but at the moment, there is insufficient information to diagnose the problem further. I have not been able to reproduce the reboots here. I suspect that it is going to take a PCI bus analyzer to figure this one out. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 18:13:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04987 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:13:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coal.nis.newscorp.com (mxa.newscorp.com [206.15.105.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04847 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ben@multivac.narcissus.net) Received: from multivac.narcissus.net (ts1port12.port.net [207.38.248.12]) by coal.nis.newscorp.com (News Corp SMTP GW 1.1) with SMTP id VAA09848 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:12:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by multivac.narcissus.net (NX5.67e/NX3.0S) id AA00336; Wed, 29 Oct 97 21:03:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:03:15 -0400 (GMT-0400) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: benedict@echonyc.com To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel modification In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, David E. Cross wrote: > The ether switches that we have here keep the orignial source frame. In > my understanding of the INTENT of MAC addresses, it would make more sense > for bridges, switches to keep the original source address, else it would > have to broadcast (or at least multicast) the responce on the other side > of the interface (how would it know which MAC address the packet wsa > 'really' destined for? The key word here is "source". > -- > David Cros > ACS Consultant Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 18:14:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05011 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coal.nis.newscorp.com (mxa.newscorp.com [206.15.105.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04956 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:12:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ben@multivac.narcissus.net) Received: from multivac.narcissus.net (ts1port12.port.net [207.38.248.12]) by coal.nis.newscorp.com (News Corp SMTP GW 1.1) with SMTP id VAA18039; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:13:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by multivac.narcissus.net (NX5.67e/NX3.0S) id AA00342; Wed, 29 Oct 97 21:04:42 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:04:41 -0400 (GMT-0400) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: benedict@echonyc.com To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <199710300201.LAA09472@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry, but that is incorrect. I am not stupid and I read documentation; nevertheless, I was unable to get the mouse working as a PS/2 device. Yes, I specified PS/2 as the protocol type. On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > Hmm, it is very easy to set up the PS/2 mouse either for XFree86 or > moused, so long as this rule is followed: > > When you connect the mouse to the PS/2 mouse port, specify "PS/2" as > the protocol type REGARDLESS of the model and manufacturer of the > mouse. > > This is clearly stated in the man page of XF86Config(4/5). Various > README files also say the user should refer to this man page. But > unfortunately s/he either doesn't read it or doesn't know his/her > mouse is of the PS/2 type... > > Kazu > > PS: I am currently working on mouse drivers and moused so that moused > and XFree86 will be identify appropriate mouse protocol automatically. > > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 18:39:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06107 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:39:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06102 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:39:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09196; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd009190; Wed Oct 29 19:39:17 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21118; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:39:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710300239.TAA21118@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Kernel modification To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 02:39:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971029161422.12013@right.PCS> from "Jonathan Lemon" at Oct 29, 97 04:14:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I can't see why you would want to re-transmit with the original MAC > address; this would cause arp lookups to fail, among other things. DECNet requires it, for one thing. If you want to implement a DECNet Phase IV (I don't rememebr about Phase V, but I think it's the same), any "bridge" or routable "tunnel" pretending to be a bridge to get traffic over a VPN (Virtual Private Net) for disparately located site *has* to spoof MAC addresses. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 19:04:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07514 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:04:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA07499 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:04:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp id AA03193; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:04:04 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id MAA11241; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:10:30 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199710300310.MAA11241@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: benedict@echonyc.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: PS/2 mouse (was: Re: svgalib? ) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:04:41 -0400." References: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:10:29 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Sorry, but that is incorrect. I am not stupid and I read documentation; >nevertheless, I was unable to get the mouse working as a PS/2 device. >Yes, I specified PS/2 as the protocol type. > >On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > >> Hmm, it is very easy to set up the PS/2 mouse either for XFree86 or >> moused, so long as this rule is followed: >> >> When you connect the mouse to the PS/2 mouse port, specify "PS/2" as >> the protocol type REGARDLESS of the model and manufacturer of the >> mouse. >> >> This is clearly stated in the man page of XF86Config(4/5). Various >> README files also say the user should refer to this man page. But >> unfortunately s/he either doesn't read it or doesn't know his/her >> mouse is of the PS/2 type... Hmm, you said you have a Logitech MouseMan. Quit a number of MouseMan are connected to the PS/2 mouse port and used without a problem around me. So long as your MouseMan is "Serial-MousePort" type (see label on the belly of the mouse), it can be attached to the PS/2 port. # If the label says "Serial", well, it's a serial mouse :-) Would you attach the mouse at the PS/2 mouse port, boot your system giving "-v" option at the "Boot:" prompt and check dmesg output? You should look for "psm0:..." and "kbdio:..." lines. You can also test your PS/2 mouse by doing the following. 1. If you run moused, kill it for now. 2. Stop X either. 3. As root, run moused in the debug mode. moused -d -f -p /dev/psm0 -t ps/2 4. Move mouse. Moused will print X and Y movement counter and button status. 5. ^C will stop moused. If you are not sure if the output is correct, I will analyze it for you if you send me the output. There also are following advices: 1. If the PS/2 mouse port is not directly soldered on the motherboard and the mouse port (DIN connector) on the case and the motherboard is connected via a flat cable, verify it's the write cable and correctly oriented. One user bought the cable and motherboard separately and later found that they are not compatible. This can happen because pin assignment on the motherboard side is not standardized. The cable for one motherboard (say, from ASUS) may not be used with another (say, from GIGABYTE). 2. XF86Setup isn't good at handling mice. If you are using it to configure XF86Config, do not touch your mouse until you have specified everything about the mouse. (device: /dev/psm0, protocol: PS/2) And do NOT change mouse settings again until you quit XF86Setup. Kazu From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 19:08:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07758 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:08:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (root@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07753 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:08:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@lakewood.com) Received: from i4got.lakewood.com (fh-ppp12.monmouth.com [205.164.221.44]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02635; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by i4got.lakewood.com id WAA01815 (8.8.5/IDA-1.6); Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:08:15 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Pechter Message-ID: <199710300308.WAA01815@i4got.lakewood.com> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 Unable to boot floppy Image In-Reply-To: from "Goeringer, Michael" at "Oct 29, 97 02:43:07 pm" To: goeringerm@keywest.ird.rl.af.mil (Goeringer Michael) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:08:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: pechter@lakewood.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've downloaded the image 3 times now... all are the same (correct) > size. All perform the same... Hmmmmm very confusing... I'll go back and > reboot with my 2.2.1 floppy just as an integrity check. > > Michael G. I saw this once on 2.2.5 with my 386... I entered /kernel and it worked ok... Don't know if this is a glitch or some junk in the keyboard buffer at boot time. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 19:13:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08172 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from packman.icis.qut.edu.au (root@packman.icis.qut.edu.au [131.181.70.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08095; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@russell.icis.qut.edu.au) Received: from russell.icis.qut.edu.au (russell.icis.qut.edu.au [131.181.70.49]) by packman.icis.qut.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id MAA23325; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:59:23 +1000 (EST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by russell.icis.qut.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) id NAA11533; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:14:40 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:14:40 +1000 (EST) From: Steve Milliner Message-Id: <199710300314.NAA11533@russell.icis.qut.edu.au> To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: modem transmision problems?? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know (off the top of their heads) or experienced problems with modem transmissions as follows: /kernel: sio3: 8 more tty-level buffer overflows - traffic consists of mail is being sent between a FBSD box and a NT box (using exchange :>) on a permanent dialup line. Mail is queued at the FBSD side, and then relayed on. Both boxes have the same internal modems. I'm GUESSING that the modem is being flooded because too much mail is being de-queued on to it at once ?? so I've made the queue time smaller to try and stop the build up - but I'm a little perplexed as to why FBSD buffering does not seem to be working here ... or are the modems I'm using (latest Banksia) rubbish ?? Does anybody know if this is in fact the case ? what the root cause of it is and how to fix it ? thanks in advance REGS Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 19:16:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08500 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:16:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08484 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:16:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04476; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:15:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710300315.TAA04476@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: spork , "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:23:09 PST." <10125.878152989@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:15:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Try to compile a list of what customers are complaining about setting up X which I then will take it up with the XFree868 group. As for XF86Setup , we should be able to have a FreeBSD version for the purpose of ease of configuration. Amancio > > Personally, I think it has alot to do with whether or not the user has the > > full array of documentation for all their video hardware. I found it easy > > with all the books in front of me, but if you don't know the max refresh > > on your monitor, or you have an unknown video card in the system, > > questions about your "dot clock", etc. seem rather daunting. > > I have news for you - most folks don't have any CLUE as to what kind > of video card is in their machine. They bought it from some box > shifter, have usually never even opened it up and wouldn't know the > video card from the ethernet interface even if they did. > > I think I'm going to ask if Amancio would like to man Walnut Creek > CDROM's tech support lines for a month or something - I think he'd > find this experience very enlightening in the face of his "most people > shouldn't have any problems getting into X" statement. :-) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 19:26:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09076 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:26:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09071 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:26:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA20048; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:25:36 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710300325.WAA20048@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) In-Reply-To: from Michael Hancock at "Oct 30, 97 10:58:34 am" To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:25:36 -0500 (EST) Cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Hancock said: > > > > specifically here's my gripe with FreeBSD and the XFree86 peoples, COMMENT > > > YOUR CODE A LITTLE MORE DAMMIT :) > > More comments aren't necessarily better. Wrong comments are worse then no > comments and more comments can lead to that. > > If want to rip on something, go thru the cvs logs and rip on useless > comments. If you want to encourage something push for better meaningful > comments. > It wouldn't be too hard to add comments: vp = vp->v_next; /* get the next vp */ i++; /* add one to i */ Hmmm.... :-). -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 19:30:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09330 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from euthyphro.uchicago.edu (euthyphro.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09320 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:30:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sfarrell@phaedrus.uchicago.edu) Received: from phaedrus.uchicago.edu (phaedrus [128.135.21.10]) by euthyphro.uchicago.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA22983; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:29:54 -0600 (CST) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by phaedrus.uchicago.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA27943; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:29:48 -0600 (CST) To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? References: <199710281723.JAA02204@rah.star-gate.com> From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.89) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 29 Oct 1997 21:29:48 -0600 In-Reply-To: Amancio Hasty's message of Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:23:12 -0800 Message-ID: <87sotklyhf.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty writes: > If we really wanted we could port it however svgalib brings a support > nightmare. What needs to happen is to tie svgalib to the Xfree86 development > in such a way that that low level graphic functions from the XFree86 server > become available as a library. What about GGI? SVGALib is on it's way out in the linux world anyway; wouldn't it be better to get GGI into freebsd than worry about SVGALib, which sucked to begin with? http://synergy.caltech.edu/~ggi/ -- Steve Farrell From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 19:45:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10119 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:45:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coal.nis.newscorp.com (mxa.newscorp.com [206.15.105.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09981 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ben@multivac.narcissus.net) Received: from multivac.narcissus.net (ts2port10.port.net [207.38.248.138]) by coal.nis.newscorp.com (News Corp SMTP GW 1.1) with SMTP id WAA15903; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:44:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by multivac.narcissus.net (NX5.67e/NX3.0S) id AA00484; Wed, 29 Oct 97 22:35:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:35:42 -0400 (GMT-0400) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: benedict@echonyc.com To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PS/2 mouse (was: Re: svgalib? ) In-Reply-To: <199710300310.MAA11241@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > So long as your MouseMan is "Serial-MousePort" type (see label on the > belly of the mouse), it can be attached to the PS/2 port. It can be attached to either the PS/2 port or the serial port. I know because I have attached it to both. > Would you attach the mouse at the PS/2 mouse port, boot your system > giving "-v" option at the "Boot:" prompt and check dmesg output? > You should look for "psm0:..." and "kbdio:..." lines. Thanks, but I'm not interested in debugging the PS/2 connection, since the mouse is working fine as a serial mouse and I don't need the port for anything. > You can also test your PS/2 mouse by doing the following. > > 1. If you run moused, kill it for now. > 2. Stop X either. > 3. As root, run moused in the debug mode. > moused -d -f -p /dev/psm0 -t ps/2 > 4. Move mouse. Moused will print X and Y movement counter and button > status. > 5. ^C will stop moused. > > If you are not sure if the output is correct, I will analyze it for > you if you send me the output. > > There also are following advices: > > 1. If the PS/2 mouse port is not directly soldered on the motherboard > and the mouse port (DIN connector) on the case and the motherboard > is connected via a flat cable, verify it's the write cable and > correctly oriented. One user bought the cable and motherboard separately > and later found that they are not compatible. This can happen > because pin assignment on the motherboard side is not standardized. > The cable for one motherboard (say, from ASUS) may not be used with > another (say, from GIGABYTE). > > 2. XF86Setup isn't good at handling mice. If you are using it to > configure XF86Config, do not touch your mouse until you have specified > everything about the mouse. (device: /dev/psm0, protocol: PS/2) > And do NOT change mouse settings again until you quit XF86Setup. > > Kazu > > > > > Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 20:02:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11108 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:02:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (root@seoul-226.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11102 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:02:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00946; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:00:08 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:00:08 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Kazutaka YOKOTA cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <199710300201.LAA09472@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > PS: I am currently working on mouse drivers and moused so that moused > and XFree86 will be identify appropriate mouse protocol automatically. I hope this integrates nicely with the PnP code. That would be really nice, to be able to just plug in a mouse and watch it boot up with X. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 20:02:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11141 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:02:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (root@seoul-226.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11134 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:02:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA00959; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:03:22 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:03:22 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <10601.878155405@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > ... and I'm sure that the XFree86 folks would just love your help in > doing that in a fashion which works on a reasonable number of the > operating systems they support. :-) Read if it works on Linux, they'll bite. ;-) > Otherwise, the chances of this actually happening are close to nil, I > suspect. We've been waiting for a more automatic setup tool for X for > literally years now, and if any improvements have been done it's been > primarily to make the manual setup process a bit more palatable, not > more automatic. Everyone agrees that it should be done, nobody writes > the code. :-( What about SuperProbe? It appears to already do some PCI probing. Why not attempt to extend it into some sort of autoconfigurator thingy. If it's gpl'd one could hack together some source, otherwise I'm sure it would be farily easy to grep and sed your way through the output of that to automagically set everything up. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 20:37:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA13196 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:37:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13191 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:37:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id EAA18877; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:37:07 GMT Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:37:06 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "John S. Dyson" cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) In-Reply-To: <199710300325.WAA20048@dyson.iquest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, John S. Dyson wrote: > Michael Hancock said: > > > > > > specifically here's my gripe with FreeBSD and the XFree86 peoples, COMMENT > > > > YOUR CODE A LITTLE MORE DAMMIT :) > > > > More comments aren't necessarily better. Wrong comments are worse then no > > comments and more comments can lead to that. > > > > If want to rip on something, go thru the cvs logs and rip on useless > > comments. If you want to encourage something push for better meaningful > > comments. > > > It wouldn't be too hard to add comments: > > vp = vp->v_next; /* get the next vp */ > i++; /* add one to i */ > > Hmmm.... :-). Yeah, those should be plucked out of the code. One liners above the code section that describe the author's intent rather than parroting the mechanics of the code is sufficient. The philosophy is pretty well described in "Elements of Style", by Strunk and White. Or better yet, "Elements of Programming Style", by Kernigan and Plauger. Mike Hancock From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 20:59:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14032 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14025 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 20:59:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@zeta.org.au) Received: from gurney.reilly.home (d66.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.11.66]) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA13838; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:54:55 +1100 Received: (from andrew@localhost) by gurney.reilly.home (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA05309; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:52:09 +1100 (EST) From: Andrew Reilly Message-Id: <199710300452.PAA05309@gurney.reilly.home> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:52:09 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To: mike@smith.net.au cc: perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710292255.JAA02415@word.smith.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 30 Oct, Mike Smith wrote: >> (i hope no one takes offence at this, please badger me and show me where i >> can find stuff to answer this) > > CVS logs. "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating > System". -hackers list archive. > >> specifically here's my gripe with FreeBSD and the XFree86 peoples, COMMENT >> YOUR CODE A LITTLE MORE DAMMIT :) > > Are you complaining about FreeBSD code, or legacy CSRG code, or code > from some other source? If you want to undertake to comment all that > old hair that nobody else ever did, please do! > >> it's not just tracing through the code, i know the structure allows for >> such great things as CVSups and other methods of updating the sourcecode, >> but some simple documentation explaining how to not only make code for >> freebsd, but something that is compadible with the structures already in >> place would be nice... > > There is no "simple documentation" because it's not "simple", and the > effort of producing such documentation is pretty monstrous. In most > cases, the code is actually quite bearably followable, and once you > learn your way around the system it only gets better. > > However, if you want to write "BSD Kernel Source for Dummies", go right > ahead... > Not comments, but... I remember a while ago that a (? Japanese ?) guy put up an automatically html'd, cross-referenced, gee whizz version of the FreeBSD sources (and Linux too). That's probably a bit old by now, but if the tool he used is readily available then you could apply it yourself to the current sources. I haven't had much of a look at the FreeBSD kernel code, but on other projects I've found that knowing what the various variables are (you know, the single letter ones), and where they come from is half the battle. -- Andrew "The steady state of disks is full." -- Ken Thompson From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 21:07:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14511 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:07:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14504 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:07:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04949; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:06:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710300506.VAA04949@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: stephen farrell cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "29 Oct 1997 21:29:48 CST." <87sotklyhf.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:06:49 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If they can manage to tie the support to a project such as XFree86 then yes otherwise it just simply going to be just another svgalib :( Cheers, Amancio > Amancio Hasty writes: > > > If we really wanted we could port it however svgalib brings a support > > nightmare. What needs to happen is to tie svgalib to the Xfree86 development > > in such a way that that low level graphic functions from the XFree86 server > > become available as a library. > > What about GGI? SVGALib is on it's way out in the linux world anyway; > wouldn't it be better to get GGI into freebsd than worry about > SVGALib, which sucked to begin with? > > http://synergy.caltech.edu/~ggi/ > > > -- > > Steve Farrell > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 21:21:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA15174 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:21:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15168 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:21:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA13874; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd013863; Wed Oct 29 22:20:55 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA00554; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:20:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710300520.WAA00554@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help with fstat? To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 05:20:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Niall Smart" at Oct 29, 97 08:51:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does FreeBSD maintain a "free page" list internally that it will > consult before trying the heuristics for replacing a page? If this > is so then when we page in a page for a memory mapped region with the > MADV_SEQUENTIAL attribute we can immediately add the previous page to the > "free page" list. John does this in the OBJ_SEQUENTIAL case in vm_fault() in vm_fault.c. But he merely goes through the pages in the region before the faulted region (taking read-ahead into account), and if dirty, protects and deactivates the page, or if clean, caches it. My problem is with it being cached, since it's now on the LRU list ahead of my page that's been cached, and the user promised us that he's never going to reference the thing again. So why is it cached instead of "cached with extreme prejudice"... ie: inserted at the LRU head as if it were truly the least recently used instead of in LRU order, where it can force my pages (which I *am* going to reference again) out of core? That's what pisses me off about MADV_SEQUENTIAL... it snipes pages with possible locality to replace them with pages with no possible locality. I think vm_page_cache() and vm_page_deactivate() need a parameter like "defeat_normal_LRU_insertion_order" to stuff them at the other end of the LRU so they'll be the first against the wall when someone needs another page. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 21:27:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA15424 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15418; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11288; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:21:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:21:23 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman X-Sender: chris@bb.cc.wa.us To: Steve Milliner cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modem transmision problems?? In-Reply-To: <199710300314.NAA11533@russell.icis.qut.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I recently got this same error, but I don't have a modem connected. I have two serial plotters connected to the computer. I would also like to know the root of the problem. Christopher J. Coleman (chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-766-8873 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 22:02:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17024 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:02:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (root@[208.8.136.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17017 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:02:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11301; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:28:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:28:21 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman X-Sender: chris@bb.cc.wa.us To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <199710300315.TAA04476@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am just about to start a "Setting up Xwindows" tutorial to add to my online book stuff. I would like a copy of what the customers are complaining about so I can address the issues. I have had quite a few good responses to my install tutorial. Any help on this would be appreciated. Thanks Christopher J. Coleman (chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-766-8873 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Try to compile a list of what customers are complaining about > setting up X which I then will take it up with the XFree868 group. > > As for XF86Setup , we should be able to have a FreeBSD version for the > purpose of ease of configuration. > > Amancio > > > > > > Personally, I think it has alot to do with whether or not the user has the > > > full array of documentation for all their video hardware. I found it easy > > > with all the books in front of me, but if you don't know the max refresh > > > on your monitor, or you have an unknown video card in the system, > > > questions about your "dot clock", etc. seem rather daunting. > > > > I have news for you - most folks don't have any CLUE as to what kind > > of video card is in their machine. They bought it from some box > > shifter, have usually never even opened it up and wouldn't know the > > video card from the ethernet interface even if they did. > > > > I think I'm going to ask if Amancio would like to man Walnut Creek > > CDROM's tech support lines for a month or something - I think he'd > > find this experience very enlightening in the face of his "most people > > shouldn't have any problems getting into X" statement. :-) > > > > Jordan > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 22:11:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17773 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br ([146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17764 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:11:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA27511; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:10:20 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199710300610.EAA27511@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: Kernel modification In-Reply-To: <19971029161422.12013@right.PCS> from Jonathan Lemon at "Oct 29, 97 04:14:22 pm" To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:10:20 -0200 (EDT) Cc: stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk #define quoting(Jonathan Lemon) // I can't see why you would want to re-transmit with the original MAC // address; this would cause arp lookups to fail, among other things. // // Even bridges put their own MAC address in the frame. Are you nuts ? Just think: How would ARP work between machines separated by bridges ? Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 22:16:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18040 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:16:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iq.org (proff@profane.iq.org [203.4.184.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA18034 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:16:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from proff@iq.org) From: proff@iq.org Received: (qmail 18191 invoked by uid 110); 30 Oct 1997 06:16:07 -0000 Date: 30 Oct 1997 06:16:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19971030061607.18190.qmail@iq.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: kernel spinlocks, splbio(), MUTEX etc Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a possible access contention between two peices of code, one hanging off a timeout() interrupt and the other called via the VFS sub-system. I don't want to lock the object they are accessing by using splbio() as both bits of code use around 32k instructions. ideas? -J . From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 22:17:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18104 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:17:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from netdev.comsys.com (netdev.comsys.com [192.94.236.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18099; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@comsys.com) Received: from neisse.comsys.com ([204.202.49.58]) by netdev.comsys.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA10883; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:33:49 -0700 (MST) Reply-To: "alex huppenthal" From: "alex huppenthal" To: , Subject: Transmission on DSL Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:15:53 -0800 Message-ID: <01bce4fb$46df6120$3a31cacc@neisse.comsys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm wondering if this is a problem that might be fixed with an OS tune. We're using the Krell 784kbit DSL modems with quad Cogent/Adaptec Ethernet cards and getting periodic buffer overflow errors? The Krell is set for full duplex operation 10 MB operation. I haven't tried 1/2 duplex because we want to set the modems to one setting. Any suggestions appreciated. - Alex ------------------------------------------------------------------ Communication Systems Research 'Go anywhere you want today' Portland, OR 97201 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 29 23:02:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19848 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:02:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19820; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:02:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xQobF-0001gj-00; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:01:01 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:00:38 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: alex huppenthal cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Transmission on DSL In-Reply-To: <01bce4fb$46df6120$3a31cacc@neisse.comsys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, alex huppenthal wrote: > I'm wondering if this is a problem that might be fixed with an OS tune. Depends. What version are you running? This is rather important. > We're using the Krell 784kbit DSL modems with quad Cogent/Adaptec Ethernet > cards and getting periodic buffer overflow errors? The Krell is set for full > duplex operation 10 MB operation. > > I haven't tried 1/2 duplex because we want to set the modems to one setting. Try it. Chances are you haven't switched the (de0?) driver into full-duplex, assuming that you have a version of the driver that even supports full-duplex. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 00:35:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA24368 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:35:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from burka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@burka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.193.193.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24350 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:34:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archer@grape.carrier.kiev.ua) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.193.193.101]) by burka.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.6/8.Who.Cares) with ESMTP id KAA12023 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:34:24 +0200 (EET) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id KAA20928; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:32:50 +0200 (EET) Received: (from archer@localhost) by grape.carrier.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28272; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:26:17 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <19971030102615.09637@grape.carrier.kiev.ua> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:26:15 +0200 From: Alexander Litvin To: dg@root.com Cc: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cyclades :( References: <199710300212.SAA01513@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199710300212.SAA01513@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 06:12:59PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 06:12:59PM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > > > >... Maybye you should let Cyclades do the drivers. They might work then. > > Jamil, this comment is without merit and does absolutely nothing to help > with the problem. Cyclades is quite familiar with the driver in FreeBSD and > has done extensive testing with both the ISA and PCI product under FreeBSD. > They haven't seen any problems in their testing, but of course that doesn't > mean that a problem doesn't exist. The device driver for the PCI version is > the same driver that the ISA card uses, the only difference is that the PCI > front-end memory-maps the registers into the address space at device attach > time. There might be a hardware problem with the PCI interface that is causing > the reboots, but at the moment, there is insufficient information to diagnose > the problem further. I have not been able to reproduce the reboots here. I > suspect that it is going to take a PCI bus analyzer to figure this one out. Well, I forgot to say: reboots doesn't happen when you just plag in Cyclades. All four boxes -- quite busy access servers, from 10 to 15 dialup modems. As for comment about using Cyclades for connecting serial terminals -- I mentioned that reboots happen with "getty" and don't with "mgetty", so callout devices are ok. What ditails can I provide? That's not panics, I don't have crashdumps. May be exact hardware configurations? If so -- I'll test it once again and write exactly all hardware details. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project -- Litvin Alexander From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 01:45:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA28416 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:45:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bootp.sls.usu.edu (bootp.sls.usu.edu [129.123.15.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28411 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu) Received: (from kurto@localhost) by bootp.sls.usu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id CAA25047 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 02:45:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 02:45:37 -0700 (MST) From: Kurt Olsen Message-Id: <199710300945.CAA25047@bootp.sls.usu.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: libvgl problems? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was playing with libvgl this evening and found a rather disturbing bug. On my particular keyboard the VGLKeyboardGetCh() call doesn't return anything for the make code on the occurance of a 'u' or TAB. I get the break codes all right but not the make codes. Anybody else seen this? I get the same behavior under CODEKEYS and RAWKEYS. Here's a short program I wrote to check out which codes were returned for which keys, as a side effect it demonstrates this problem nicely. Kurt Olsen kurto@bootp.sls.usu.edu #include #include #include void main(void) { int i,j,k; VGLInit(M_C80x25); #if 1 VGLKeyboardInit(VGL_CODEKEYS); #else VGLKeyboardInit(VGL_RAWKEYS); #endif for (i=0; i < 500000; i++) { j = VGLKeyboardGetCh(); if (j>0) printf("%c%c%02x", 0xd, 0xa, j); else if (k > 100000) { printf(".",j); k=0; fflush(stdout);} k++; } VGLKeyboardEnd(); VGLEnd(); } From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 02:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA00624 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 02:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (csnet.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA00615 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 02:29:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.csa (csd [132.68.32.8]) by csnet.cs.technion.ac.il (8.6.11/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA18105; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:27:36 +0200 Received: from localhost by csd.csa (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA10963; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:27:45 +0200 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:27:45 +0200 (IST) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Terry Lambert cc: Jonathan Lemon , stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel modification In-Reply-To: <199710300239.TAA21118@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I can't see why you would want to re-transmit with the original MAC > > address; this would cause arp lookups to fail, among other things. > > DECNet requires it, for one thing. If you want to implement a DECNet > Phase IV (I don't rememebr about Phase V, but I think it's the same), Phase V doesn't make any assumptions on MAC addresses, unless, of course, you install it with "Phase IV compatibility mode". > any "bridge" or routable "tunnel" pretending to be a bridge to get > traffic over a VPN (Virtual Private Net) for disparately located > site *has* to spoof MAC addresses. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Nadav From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 03:08:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02238 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp5.portal.net.au [202.12.71.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02233 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:08:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00417; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:33:40 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710301103.VAA00417@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: dg@root.com cc: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , Alexander Litvin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cyclades :( In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:12:59 -0800." <199710300212.SAA01513@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:33:38 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Cyclades is quite familiar with the driver in FreeBSD and > has done extensive testing with both the ISA and PCI product under FreeBSD. > They haven't seen any problems in their testing, but of course that doesn't > mean that a problem doesn't exist. The device driver for the PCI version is > the same driver that the ISA card uses, the only difference is that the PCI > front-end memory-maps the registers into the address space at device attach > time. There might be a hardware problem with the PCI interface that is causing > the reboots, but at the moment, there is insufficient information to diagnose > the problem further. I have not been able to reproduce the reboots here. I > suspect that it is going to take a PCI bus analyzer to figure this one out. If it's any help, I have seen problems with the Cyclades cards and at least one SiS chipset which resulted in very rapid system lockup. If it *is* the Cyclades card, the problem isn't so much Cyclades' as PLX's, as the Cyclades PCI interface is just a PLX9060. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 03:21:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA02774 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:21:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA02769 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10740; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:29:30 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199710301129.MAA10740@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: <199710300520.WAA00554@usr05.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 30, 97 05:20:47 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:29:30 +0100 (CET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > My problem is with it being cached, since it's now on the LRU list > ahead of my page that's been cached, and the user promised us that > he's never going to reference the thing again. So why is it cached > instead of "cached with extreme prejudice"... ie: inserted at the LRU > head as if it were truly the least recently used instead of in LRU > order, where it can force my pages (which I *am* going to reference > again) out of core? Well, it's not for sure that the pages used in a MADV_SEQUENTIAL reading in a process will not be used again, is it? I might back up a few bytes in parsing text, for example, but ALMOST be sequential, and then it might be a good idea to hint the system anyway. That would easilly be solved with three pages, though, if one page is enough read ahead. But the real case of where it will be reused is, actually, if many processes access the file after eachother, or almost simultaniously. That might be the case for something like a loaded webserver where the speed of a read might matter a lot. It might be mmaping and writing a whole bunch of index.html copies a second, accessing them sequientally, in which it is likely to use MADV_SEQUENTIAL, no? It's a very good thing if it doesn't trash those pages right away, then. But less accessed pages will be very happily discareded right away. They will not be moved back in the free-queue all the time, because they are not accessed again. So they WILL be truly discarded. Now, this might not be completely correct, but don't I have a point, Terry? /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 03:39:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03703 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp5.portal.net.au [202.12.71.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03677; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00544; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:01:53 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710301131.WAA00544@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Steve Milliner cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modem transmision problems?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:14:40 +1000." <199710300314.NAA11533@russell.icis.qut.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:01:52 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone know (off the top of their heads) or experienced > problems with modem transmissions as follows: > > /kernel: sio3: 8 more tty-level buffer overflows How about you start by reading the sio(4) manpage? sio%d: tty-level buffer overflow. Problem in the application. Input has arrived faster than the given module could process it and some has been lost. Are you using user-mode ppp? If so, it sounds like the machine is heavily loaded and the ppp process is being starved of CPU for extended periods of time. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 03:50:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA04359 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp5.portal.net.au [202.12.71.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA04306 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 03:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00594; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:11:25 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710301141.WAA00594@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: proff@iq.org cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel spinlocks, splbio(), MUTEX etc In-reply-to: Your message of "30 Oct 1997 06:16:07 -0000." <19971030061607.18190.qmail@iq.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:11:24 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have a possible access contention between two peices of code, > one hanging off a timeout() interrupt and the other called via > the VFS sub-system. I don't want to lock the object they are > accessing by using splbio() as both bits of code use around > 32k instructions. > > ideas? Can you defer one or both of the fragments? The only real alternatives are to redesign your code to reduce the size of the critical region(s), and that's not always easy... mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 04:31:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA05973 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp5.portal.net.au [202.12.71.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA05965 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:31:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00721; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:51:28 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710301221.WAA00721@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: stephen farrell cc: Amancio Hasty , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "29 Oct 1997 21:29:48 MDT." <87sotklyhf.fsf@phaedrus.uchicago.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:51:25 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Amancio Hasty writes: > > > If we really wanted we could port it however svgalib brings a support > > nightmare. What needs to happen is to tie svgalib to the Xfree86 development > > in such a way that that low level graphic functions from the XFree86 server > > become available as a library. > > What about GGI? SVGALib is on it's way out in the linux world anyway; > wouldn't it be better to get GGI into freebsd than worry about > SVGALib, which sucked to begin with? > > http://synergy.caltech.edu/~ggi/ Just reading up on this, I'm struck with the impression that these guys are furious that someone else invented X before they did, and did a better job of it to boot. There are all sorts of little giveaway signs that this is *not* a particuarly wonderful thing to be pursuing. I'd much rather put my (metaphorical) weight behind DGA. GGI is also *very* Linux-centric; porting it to FreeBSD would be a Lot Of Work. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 04:38:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA06338 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:38:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from arka.mtl.pl (root@arka.mtl.pl [195.116.4.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA06321; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 04:38:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@arka.mtl.pl) Received: (from tom@localhost) by arka.mtl.pl (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA13736; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:38:10 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:38:10 +0100 (MET) From: Tomasz Zin To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: modem GVC Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id EAA06322 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Mayby someone was configuring GVC modem for lised-line? Modem type: V.34 33600 BPS. Modems are connected CD led is ON, but they send characters no correctly. On modem1 I press q and receive » on modem2. When I press q on modem2 I receive ¨ on modem1. I don't know why? Tomasz Zin From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 05:01:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07071 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 05:01:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iq.org (proff@profane.iq.org [203.4.184.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA07063 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 05:01:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from proff@iq.org) Received: (qmail 731 invoked by uid 110); 30 Oct 1997 13:01:07 -0000 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kernel spinlocks, splbio(), MUTEX etc References: <199710301141.WAA00594@word.smith.net.au> From: Julian Assange In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:11:24 +1030 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.52/XEmacs 20.2 Date: 31 Oct 1997 00:01:07 +1100 Message-ID: Lines: 106 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Smith writes: > > > > I have a possible access contention between two peices of code, > > one hanging off a timeout() interrupt and the other called via > > the VFS sub-system. I don't want to lock the object they are > > accessing by using splbio() as both bits of code use around > > 32k instructions. > > > > ideas? > > Can you defer one or both of the fragments? The only real alternatives > are to redesign your code to reduce the size of the critical region(s), > and that's not always easy... > > mike I ended up using a combination of splbio(), tsleep(), wakeup() and my own locking system. maruXORkeys() is the cpu pig that we don't want to block on. Below is the locking code. I'm a bit dubious of my usage of volatile here (I want it to apply to what the pointer points to rather than the pointer itself) I don't want references to maru->mkeyLock to end up optimized into a register on the first reference, because by the time we get to the second another thread may have hit the original in-memory instance. static void maruLockKeys(volatile munit *maru) { int s; re: s = splbio(); if (maru->m_keyLock == kl_timer) { splx(s); tsleep(maru, PRIBIO, "maru", 0); goto re; } maru->m_keyLockCount++; if (maru->m_keyLock != kl_strategy) /* maybe running concurrently */ { maru->m_keyLock = kl_strategy; splx(s); if (maru->m_keyState == ks_cipher) maruXORkeys(maru); } else splx(s); } static void maruUnlockKeys(volatile munit *maru) { int s; s = splbio(); if (--maru->m_keyLockCount == 0) maru->m_keyLock = kl_none; splx(s); } static void maruKeyTimer(void *m) { volatile munit *maru = m; /* right semantics for volatile ?*/ maruInstance *i; int s; IFOPT(MARU_FOLLOW) printf ("maruXORkey(%p)\n", m); if (!munits[maru->m_unit]) return; i = maru->m_instance; if (!i) return; s = splbio(); /* where is MUTEX() when you need it */ switch (maru->m_keyLock) { case kl_none: break; case kl_timer: case kl_strategy: splx(s); goto end; default: panic("maruKeyTimer() default: wtf are we doing here?"); } maru->m_keyLock = kl_timer; maru->m_keyLockCount++; splx(s); maruXORkeys(maru); s = splbio(); if (maru->m_keyLock == kl_strategy) { splx(s); wakeup(maru); } else splx(s); end: timeout(maruKeyTimer, maru, ((maru->m_xorfreq*hz/1000)>0)? (maru->m_xorfreq*hz)/1000: 1); } -- Prof. Julian Assange |"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your | Ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down proff@iq.org | people's throats." proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | -- Howard Aiken From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 05:10:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA07482 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 05:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from pluto.senet.com.au (root@pluto.senet.com.au [203.11.90.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA07474 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 05:10:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darius@holly.rd.net) Received: from holly.rd.net (c5-p21.senet.com.au [203.56.238.22]) by pluto.senet.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA14030 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:40:13 +1030 Received: from holly.rd.net (localhost.rd.net [127.0.0.1]) by holly.rd.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27858 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:44:54 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710301314.XAA27858@holly.rd.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svgalib? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:51:25 +1030." <199710301221.WAA00721@word.smith.net.au> Reply-to: doconnor@ist.flinders.edu.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:44:54 +1030 From: "Daniel J. O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There are all sorts of little giveaway signs that this is *not* a > particuarly wonderful thing to be pursuing. I'd much rather put my > (metaphorical) weight behind DGA. Yeah, one thing less to set up. I can't honestly see someone who can set up svgalib not being able to set up XF86, especially if some simple defaults where there. > GGI is also *very* Linux-centric; porting it to FreeBSD would be a Lot > Of Work. Yes, well of course linux _is_ the only free unix around --------------- Daniel O'Connor 3rd Year Computer Science at Flinders University http://www.geocities.com.au/CapeCanaveral/7200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 06:50:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA12685 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 06:50:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA12677 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 06:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA21339; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:50:12 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710301450.JAA21339@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help with fstat? In-Reply-To: <199710300520.WAA00554@usr05.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Oct 30, 97 05:20:47 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:50:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > Does FreeBSD maintain a "free page" list internally that it will > > consult before trying the heuristics for replacing a page? If this > > is so then when we page in a page for a memory mapped region with the > > MADV_SEQUENTIAL attribute we can immediately add the previous page to the > > "free page" list. > > John does this in the OBJ_SEQUENTIAL case in vm_fault() in vm_fault.c. > > But he merely goes through the pages in the region before the faulted > region (taking read-ahead into account), and if dirty, protects and > deactivates the page, or if clean, caches it. > > My problem is with it being cached, since it's now on the LRU list > ahead of my page that's been cached, and the user promised us that > he's never going to reference the thing again. So why is it cached > instead of "cached with extreme prejudice"... ie: inserted at the LRU > head as if it were truly the least recently used instead of in LRU > order, where it can force my pages (which I *am* going to reference > again) out of core? > Firstly, if you happen to use the inferior (or pages marked MADV_SEQUENTIAL) cached pages before they are pushed off of the cache queue, they will be placed immediately on the active queue. Secondly, there are often times that one makes multiple sequential accesses of the same file. MADV_SEQUENTIAL provides a way of bypassing the pagedaemon's Least-often-used policy allowing the system to provide immediately provide the policy (in most cases) without the pagedaemon mucking things up. > > That's what pisses me off about MADV_SEQUENTIAL... it snipes pages > with possible locality to replace them with pages with no possible > locality. > By the time that pages are on the cache queue, they are statistically much less significant than if they were on the active or inactive queues. > > I think vm_page_cache() and vm_page_deactivate() need a parameter > like "defeat_normal_LRU_insertion_order" to stuff them at the other > end of the LRU so they'll be the first against the wall when someone > needs another page. > That is an interesting idea (I had thought of that), but the gain might not be as high as the cost. MADV_SEQUENTIAL gives extreme prejudice against it's pages, while still caching (some of) them to eliminate unexpected results. (Remember the B_AGE brokenness?) I am avoiding that situation. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 08:54:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA20094 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 08:54:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov (gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov [131.182.119.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20089 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 08:54:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cshenton@it.hq.nasa.gov) Received: from wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov (WireHead.it.hq.nasa.gov [131.182.119.88]) by gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA20163 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:49:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (cshenton@localhost) by wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA12887 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:54:39 GMT Message-Id: <199710301654.QAA12887@wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov: cshenton owned process doing -bs To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2.5 mrouted? ddp_route: still have no valid route X-Mailer: Mew version 1.69 on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:54:39 -0500 From: Chris Shenton Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just cvsupped and made world on 2_2_releng, generating a kernel which says 2.2.5-STABLE. At boot, just after starting mrouted, it starts reporting ddp_route: still have no valid route sporadically, one ever 5-60 seconds or so. These are kernel messages logged to the console. After boot, I killed mrouted to see if this was in fact the cause; the messages went away. Starting it again gets the messages so it looks like it's definitely caused by mrouted. An mrinfo shows the tunnel to my border feed is up. Running a client on the LAN (Places all over the world) gets me no data feed and seems to cause much more frequent ddp_route complaints (FBSD syslog says "last message repeated 84 times"), but after several minutes I start getting client data. So I guess it's working, but I'm not comforted by the console debris. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 09:18:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22290 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:18:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from roguetrader.com (brandon@cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22285 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:18:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@roguetrader.com) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by roguetrader.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00534 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:18:38 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:18:37 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Suggested addition to /etc/security Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm not sure if /etc/security is a good place for it, but I think it would be a good idea to add this check (at least once a week) to somewhere: ------------------------------------------------- echo "checking for invalid user or group ids:" find / -nouser -nogroup ------------------------------------------------- I have users come and go a lot, and some are in projects, so their files can be scattered around the filesystem--not just in their home directory. I've added this to my security check, and it helps me to keep on top of things. Since (I think?) the default action of 'pw' and most other user add programs is to reuse ids, this is also a security concern.. -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 10:12:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA27532 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:12:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27524 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:12:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09202; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd009198; Thu Oct 30 18:04:16 1997 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:02:32 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Chris Shenton cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 mrouted? ddp_route: still have no valid route In-Reply-To: <199710301654.QAA12887@wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk eh? now I HAVE to check that.. ddp_route is the appletalk route routine. I can't imagine a way that that ends up being called from the mroute code.. if you don't have MACs, then remove the appletalk code from the kernel. if you do, then I'll check it out as soon as I get to the office. julian On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Chris Shenton wrote: > Just cvsupped and made world on 2_2_releng, generating a kernel which > says 2.2.5-STABLE. At boot, just after starting mrouted, it starts > reporting > > ddp_route: still have no valid route > > sporadically, one ever 5-60 seconds or so. These are kernel messages > logged to the console. > > After boot, I killed mrouted to see if this was in fact the cause; the > messages went away. Starting it again gets the messages so it looks > like it's definitely caused by mrouted. > > An mrinfo shows the tunnel to my border feed is up. Running a client > on the LAN (Places all over the world) gets me no data feed and seems > to cause much more frequent ddp_route complaints (FBSD syslog says > "last message repeated 84 times"), but after several minutes I start > getting client data. So I guess it's working, but I'm not comforted by > the console debris. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 10:43:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28748 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:43:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from phoenix.its.rpi.edu (phoenix.its.rpi.edu [128.113.161.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28734 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:42:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu) Received: from localhost (dec@localhost) by phoenix.its.rpi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27410; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:42:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:42:31 -0500 (EST) From: "David E. Cross" To: Julian Elischer cc: Chris Shenton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 mrouted? ddp_route: still have no valid route In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > eh? > now I HAVE to check that.. > ddp_route is the appletalk route routine. > > I can't imagine a way that that ends up being called from > the mroute code.. > if you don't have MACs, then remove the appletalk code from the kernel. > if you do, then I'll check it out as soon as I get to the office. > > julian > I have 2.2_RELENG (prior to 2.2.5-RELEASE), and I have the ddp_route bit too, and I do not have mrouted. -- David Cross ACS Consultant From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 10:49:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29129 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:49:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from relay.hq.tis.com (firewall-user@relay.hq.tis.com [192.94.214.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29107 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:49:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cvance@tis.com) Received: by relay.hq.tis.com; id NAA17210; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:55:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from clipper.hq.tis.com(10.33.1.2) by relay.hq.tis.com via smap (4.0) id xma017200; Thu, 30 Oct 97 13:55:28 -0500 Received: from tis.com (skippy.hq.tis.com [10.33.112.187]) by clipper.hq.tis.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA23676; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:44:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199710301844.NAA23676@clipper.hq.tis.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: cvance@tis.com Subject: LKM Interface Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:44:17 -0500 From: Chris Vance Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have recently begun using FreeBSD's LKM interface to test and write extensions to the base kernel. In the past, I have read messages on hackers calling for a newer, cleaner LKM interface. >From the hackers list archives, I gather that it would be a good idea to have: - a defined kernel interface - a symbol/image mapping to include module symbols in the exported interface - efficient loading/unloading (for demand loaded/unloaded modules?) - ??? What are the other details of the desired interface and is there currently any work being done on this front? I am not using the LKM interface for device drivers or filesystems, I'm just extending and supplementing miscellaneous existing structures and interfaces. Since most of the discussion focuses on device drivers (or which I care very little) I wanted to know how a redesign will affect other general kernel modules (are they being kept in mind?). There are many interesting ways a person might want to extend the kernel while maintaining the claim that it is compatible with the GENERIC FreeBSD kernel. Also, testing extensions to the kernel are expedited by the use of modload/modunload rather than /sbin/reboot; you still get your share of page faults and panics, but iterative development of a relatively stable extension consumes much less time. I have limited experience with kernel design and theory, but am a competent BSD kernel programmer. Perhaps I could help with some of the details that others have already thought through but don't have time to jump in and implement? LKM's are an area that I would love to see developed to a greater extent than they currently are. chris. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 11:01:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00257 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:01:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00224 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:01:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10790; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd010786; Thu Oct 30 18:56:10 1997 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:54:27 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "David E. Cross" cc: Chris Shenton , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.5 mrouted? ddp_route: still have no valid route In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk how many interfaces do you have? can you show the output of ifconfig -a and show atalk.conf? julian On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, David E. Cross wrote: > On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > eh? > > now I HAVE to check that.. > > ddp_route is the appletalk route routine. > > > > I can't imagine a way that that ends up being called from > > the mroute code.. > > if you don't have MACs, then remove the appletalk code from the kernel. > > if you do, then I'll check it out as soon as I get to the office. > > > > julian > > > I have 2.2_RELENG (prior to 2.2.5-RELEASE), and I have the ddp_route bit > too, and I do not have mrouted. > > -- > David Cross > ACS Consultant > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 11:03:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00429 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:03:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00419 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:03:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA06370 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG); Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:03:00 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA01962; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:53:59 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199710301853.TAA01962@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:53:58 +0100 (MET) Cc: michaelh@cet.co.jp, perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710300325.WAA20048@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Oct 29, 97 10:25:36 pm X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John S. Dyson wrote... > Michael Hancock said: > > > > > > specifically here's my gripe with FreeBSD and the XFree86 peoples, COMMENT > > > > YOUR CODE A LITTLE MORE DAMMIT :) > > > > More comments aren't necessarily better. Wrong comments are worse then no > > comments and more comments can lead to that. > > > > If want to rip on something, go thru the cvs logs and rip on useless > > comments. If you want to encourage something push for better meaningful > > comments. > > > It wouldn't be too hard to add comments: > > vp = vp->v_next; /* get the next vp */ > i++; /* add one to i */ > > Hmmm.... :-). Like to old proverb goes: ".. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to read .." 8) _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl http://www.tcja.nl/~wilko |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands - Do, or do not. There is no 'try' ------------------ Support your local daemons: run FreeBSD Unix -----Yoda From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 12:12:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06614 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov (gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov [131.182.119.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06596 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:12:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cshenton@it.hq.nasa.gov) Received: from wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov (WireHead.it.hq.nasa.gov [131.182.119.88]) by gratia.it.hq.nasa.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA20849; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:06:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (cshenton@localhost) by wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA13368; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:12:15 GMT Message-Id: <199710302012.UAA13368@wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: wirehead.it.hq.nasa.gov: cshenton owned process doing -bs To: julian@whistle.com Cc: dec@phoenix.its.rpi.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2.5 mrouted? ddp_route: still have no valid route In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:54:27 -0800 (PST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.69 on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:12:15 -0500 From: Chris Shenton Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:54:27 -0800 (PST) Julian Elischer wrote: julian> how many interfaces do you have? julian> can you show the output of ifconfig -a julian> julian> and show atalk.conf? I'm actually not using the NETATALK stuff now, so I'm rebuilding the kernel without "options NETATALK". OK, now when I reboot I don't get the ddp_route messages. No idea why mrouted tweaked this. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 12:16:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06877 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06871 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:16:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id MAA27740 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:05:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:05:54 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199710302005.MAA27740@monk.via.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Mail servers & NFS locking? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I want to have a seperate machine as a sendmail/pop email server. I've heard that on some OS's this can scramble mailboxes if NFS locking doesn't work. For FreeBSD, what is the preferred method to do this? Can I just NFS mount the mail directory on the user machines? Does NFS locking work? Thanks! Joe From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 12:49:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09738 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:49:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gabber.c2.net (gabber.c2.net [208.139.36.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09708 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:49:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sameer@gabber.c2.net) Received: (from sameer@localhost) by gabber.c2.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA15533; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:48:33 -0800 (PST) From: sameer Message-Id: <199710302048.MAA15533@gabber.c2.net> Subject: Whee, PPP over TCP working To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:48:33 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL34 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So I didn't see anything in the archives about how to get PPP over TCP working, so I figured it out myself. =) Here's how to do it.. hopefully someone can integrate this into the docs, etc. On the client, edit ppp.conf as follows: ppptcp: set device remotehost:1324 set dial "" set ifaddr 10.1.1.1 10.1.1.2 On the server, edit ppp.conf as follows: tcpserver: set ifaddr 10.1.1.2 10.1.1.1 If you want to use PAP/CHAP, whatever, then you should add appropriate configuration for PAP/CHAP. On the server, you need to plug the ppp user-land program onto a port. I wrote the following program to do that -- it has zero error-checking, it probably leaks fd's left and right, and it could be improved to do a login/password thing... there's a lot you can do to improve it, but I didn't have the time, I just wanted to put together a proof of concept. #include #include #include #include #include #include int main(void) { int s = socket(PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0); int a; struct sockaddr_in addr; addr.sin_addr.s_addr = htonl(INADDR_ANY); addr.sin_port = htons(1324); addr.sin_family = AF_INET; bind(s, (struct sockaddr *) &addr, sizeof(addr)); listen(s, 15); while(1) { struct sockaddr_in remote; int size; a = accept(s, (struct sockaddr *) &remote, &size); /* Fork the subprocess to do proxying */ if(!fork()) { char *message = "PPP/TCP Server Connected\n"; /* Spit out some stuff to the client to know we're connected */ write(a, message, strlen(message)); /* Dup some fd's and run ppp -direct */ dup2(a, STDOUT_FILENO); dup2(a, STDIN_FILENO); close(a); execl("/usr/sbin/ppp", "ppp", "-direct", "tcpserver", NULL); } } } So then on the server, you just run > ./ppp-tcp Then on the client you can run > ppp ppptcp User Process PPP. Written by Toshiharu OHNO. Log level is 09 can't open /etc/ppp/ppp.secret. Warning: No password entry for this host in ppp.secret Warning: All manipulation is allowed by anyone in the world Using interface: tun0 Interactive mode ppp ON gabber> dial Dial attempt 1 dial OK! login OK! ppp ON gabber> Packet mode. ppp ON gabber> PPP ON gabber> On the server you'll end up seeing: {0} lachesis:sameer/ppp-tcp 12:46pm [14] > ./ppp-tcp Log level is 281 can't open /etc/ppp/ppp.secret. Warning: No password entry for this host in ppp.secret Warning: All manipulation is allowed by anyone in the world then you'll be all set. You can ping, etc. -- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-986-8770 President FAX: 510-986-8777 C2Net http://www.c2.net/ sameer@c2.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 14:31:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA15995 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:31:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr03.primenet.com (tlambert@usr03.primenet.com [206.165.6.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15987 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:31:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr03.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr03.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA03009; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:30:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710302230.PAA03009@usr03.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Kernel modification To: jonny@coppe.ufrj.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:30:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, stt@pluto.cpe.ku.ac.th, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710300610.EAA27511@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> from "Joao Carlos Mendes Luis" at Oct 30, 97 04:10:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > #define quoting(Jonathan Lemon) > // I can't see why you would want to re-transmit with the original MAC > // address; this would cause arp lookups to fail, among other things. > // > // Even bridges put their own MAC address in the frame. > > Are you nuts ? Just think: How would ARP work between machines > separated by bridges ? The bridge pretends to not be there if the source and the dest are on the same side of the interface. It rememebrs this. If the source and dest are on different interfaces, it proxies and fakes the MAC address. So the short answer is "transparently and well". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 14:58:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17948 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:58:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17939 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:57:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcarmich@Mercury.mcs.net) Received: from Mercury.mcs.net (dcarmich@Mercury.mcs.net [192.160.127.80]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA11983; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:57:51 -0600 (CST) Received: (from dcarmich@localhost) by Mercury.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id QAA15890; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:57:50 -0600 (CST) From: Douglas Carmichael Message-Id: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> Subject: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:57:49 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: Don't believe the hype. For a truly open, scalable operating environment, look to FreeBSD. You don't need to bet on Microsoft's luck, with FreeBSD you can save major bucks! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 15:03:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA18477 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:03:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr03.primenet.com (tlambert@usr03.primenet.com [206.165.6.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA18466 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr03.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr03.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA04930; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:01:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710302301.QAA04930@usr03.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help with fstat? To: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se (Mikael Karpberg) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:01:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710301129.MAA10740@ocean.campus.luth.se> from "Mikael Karpberg" at Oct 30, 97 12:29:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, it's not for sure that the pages used in a MADV_SEQUENTIAL reading > in a process will not be used again, is it? I might back up a few bytes > in parsing text, for example, but ALMOST be sequential, and then it might > be a good idea to hint the system anyway. That would easilly be solved with > three pages, though, if one page is enough read ahead. You will maintain a lookahead buffer in your code to do this, or you will insure that you *never* back over a page boundry (at least not one that's not in a read-ahead page chain, which you probably can't know), or... you won't like to the system via madvise. Alternately, you agree to pay heinous paging overhead each time you go back on your promise to the VM system. 8-) 8-). > But the real case of where it will be reused is, actually, if many > processes access the file after eachother, or almost simultaniously. Well, if you look at the code, there are reference instances which are divorced, so I think this will not be a problem. > That might be the case for something like a loaded webserver where the > speed of a read might matter a lot. If you can only make the flag apply to the shared object instead of the referencing object, then you'd be right. Most likely, you would not use MADV_SEQUENTIAL in that case: you'd save the flagging for a case like "cp" (which currently does not use mmap() because of a legacy "fix" and does not call madvise() to flag it MADV_SEQUENTIAL anyway). Ie; you mark things sequential only if you promise they well be accessed that wy, and you don't make promises you can't keep (promises you can't keep is what INN did before the msync() fixes took place). > It might be mmaping and writing a whole bunch of index.html copies > a second, accessing them sequientally, in which it is likely to use > MADV_SEQUENTIAL, no? No... at least not if the system is loaded above the amount of physical RAM. And if it's loaded above the amount of physical RAM + swap, you are utterly screwed. > It's a very good thing if it doesn't trash those pages right away, > then. Do you want the pages cached behind you, or are you promising to access them sequentially. You can have one or the other. Either you say "I will not use these pages again, and, oh yes, I want read-ahead from the get-go even though I have not triggered slow-start sequential access recognition" (which should *also* set OBJ_SEQUENTIAL, btw!), OR you say "I may bneed these later". The whole issue here is process vs. system locality of reference. The whole issue with per vnode working set quotas is to prevent fast process locality from stomping slow system locality to death. If I'm running 5 xterms, each with a copy of /bin/sh, I should favor the executable imnages used by 5 processses over the data images used by one when I'm deciding whose page gets stolen to satisfy an "I want a page" request. > But less accessed pages will be very happily discareded right > away. They will not be moved back in the free-queue all the > time, because they are not accessed again. So they WILL be > truly discarded. > > Now, this might not be completely correct, but don't I have a point, Terry? I think there is still a need for a quota. The need is *NOT* the result of the MADV_SEQUENTIAL case (which is specific enough that it can be tweaked to be "sort of optimal" relatively easily). In reality, when ld or some other program randomly accesses a working set larger than physical RAM, it does so quickly enough (it's an I/O bound process -- it's soft priority will be kicked up) that it will basically force everyone elses clean-but-going-to-be-reused pages (oh, like text image backing a running program) out of core to back the faulted pages. You can demostrate this using an mmap'ing ld to link a kernel while you are running from an xterm, and trying to select another window. You have to page: o The X server's mouse code o The mouse cursor bitmap o The xterm you are moving from for LeaveNotify o The window manager for EnterNotify o The xterm again for FocusChanged o The the xterm's cursor change code o The window manager again for FocusChanged (window manager window) o The window manager for LeaveNotify (out of one xterm frame) o The window manager for EnterNotify (into another) o The window manager for LeaveNotify (out of the second xterm frame) o The new xterm for EnterNotify o The window manager and new xterm for FocusChanged o The the new xterm's cursor change code Now you are ready to type: o The xterm's keyboard handling code o The shell on the other end of the pty o The xterms display handling code o The X server's font for that xterm, plus the GC, plus the colormap, plus... Etc. Each one of these event boundry transitions is a full transit of the run queue by the scheduler. Each page involved (after the ld has thrashed them all out of core and swap) is a disk access (tsleep() -- another run queue transition) for howwever many code pages are involved (X itself is 8-10M -- how big is Motif?). The interactive response basically goes in the toilet when a process is allowed to create a large virtual address space and basically displace all other clean pages to the end of the LRU, and discard them from there. Such processes need to be whacked on the knuckles. I'm up for any suggestions you have to do the whacking, if you think it's possible without a working set quota... Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 15:12:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19138 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from spoon.beta.com (root@spoon.beta.com [199.165.180.33] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19130; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:12:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mcgovern@spoon.beta.com) Received: from spoon.beta.com (mcgovern@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spoon.beta.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04687; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:12:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199710302312.SAA04687@spoon.beta.com> To: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Win 95 PPP faster than pppd? Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:11:59 -0500 From: "Brian J. McGovern" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry for the cross-post, but, although this is question, I think it'll need the knowledge base of the hackers list. Anyhow, today, I ran a Windows 95 client, and a FreeBSD 2.2.2 and 2.2.5 PPPd client through a remote access server that I'm testing. DTE rate on the 16550s were 115200 in all cases. VJ compression on, bsd compression off. I FTP'ed a TSB-standard file that has been rated "very compressible". I ran dozens of iterations on both the Win 95, and FreeBSD box, and got consistent results. The FreeBSD boxes managed about 8.26 K/s. The modem DTE port was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps . The Win95 box managed about 10.5 K/s. Again, the DTE port on the modem was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps. Anyone care to take a guess at why there is such a difference? I hand-checked all of the transfer times and file sizes, so both clients are calculating the throughput properly. I did notice that the FreeBSD boxes are sending 1 1/2 - 2 times the amount of traffic back upstream (appears to be acks from TCPDUMP on the FTP Server). The only other strangeness I noticed was that the window size on the Win95 boxes were ~7-8K, compared to the 15-16K on the FreeBSD boxes. Just to check to see if it was a client problem, I also used fetch to pull some files. Same results. -Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 15:19:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19659 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:19:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA19648 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:19:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk) Received: from fdy2.demon.co.uk ([194.222.102.143]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1021833; 30 Oct 97 23:07 GMT Received: (from rjs@localhost) by fdy2.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA00275; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:47:14 GMT Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:47:14 GMT From: Robert Swindells Message-Id: <199710302247.WAA00275@fdy2.demon.co.uk> To: julian@whistle.com CC: cshenton@it.hq.nasa.gov, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: (message from Julian Elischer on Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:02:32 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: 2.2.5 mrouted? ddp_route: still have no valid route Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elischer wrote: >eh? >now I HAVE to check that.. >ddp_route is the appletalk route routine. >I can't imagine a way that that ends up being called from >the mroute code.. >if you don't have MACs, then remove the appletalk code from the kernel. >if you do, then I'll check it out as soon as I get to the office. Phase 2 Ethertalk is a multicast protocol. Netatalk requires multicast routing to be compiled in for it to work. >On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Chris Shenton wrote: [ddp_route messages deleted] Robert Swindells ------------------------------------- Robert Swindells - GenRad Ltd rjs@genrad.co.uk - Work rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk - Home From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 15:25:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20100 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:25:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp13.portal.net.au [202.12.71.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20095 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:25:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01945; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:51:31 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710302321.JAA01945@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: sameer cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Whee, PPP over TCP working In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:48:33 -0800." <199710302048.MAA15533@gabber.c2.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:51:29 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So I didn't see anything in the archives about how to get PPP > over TCP working, so I figured it out myself. =) It's documented in the ppp(8) manpage, at considerable length. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 16:48:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA25215 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:48:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25210 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:48:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys.etinc.com (dbsys.etinc.com [204.141.95.138]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14545; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:48:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971030194855.00b21d10@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:48:56 -0500 To: "Brian J. McGovern" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: dennis Subject: Re: Win 95 PPP faster than pppd? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 06:11 PM 10/30/97 -0500, Brian J. McGovern wrote: >Sorry for the cross-post, but, although this is question, I think it'll >need the knowledge base of the hackers list. > >Anyhow, today, I ran a Windows 95 client, and a FreeBSD 2.2.2 and 2.2.5 >PPPd client through a remote access server that I'm testing. DTE rate >on the 16550s were 115200 in all cases. VJ compression on, bsd >compression off. I FTP'ed a TSB-standard file that has been rated >"very compressible". I ran dozens of iterations on both the Win 95, >and FreeBSD box, and got consistent results. > >The FreeBSD boxes managed about 8.26 K/s. The modem DTE port >was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps . > >The Win95 box managed about 10.5 K/s. Again, the DTE port on the modem >was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps. > >Anyone care to take a guess at why there is such a difference? I hand-checked >all of the transfer times and file sizes, so both clients are calculating >the throughput properly. I did notice that the FreeBSD boxes are sending >1 1/2 - 2 times the amount of traffic back upstream (appears to be >acks from TCPDUMP on the FTP Server). The only other strangeness I noticed >was that the window size on the Win95 boxes were ~7-8K, compared to the >15-16K on the FreeBSD boxes. > >Just to check to see if it was a client problem, I also used fetch to >pull some files. Same results. > -Brian Perhaps FreeBSD actually gives some cpu to other tasks running in the system, unlike windows. I assume that you were using the same modem in each box...external or internal? dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 16:50:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA25366 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:50:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA25361 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fhackers@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2003168; 31 Oct 97 0:10 GMT Received: (from fhackers@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17364; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:44:26 GMT (envelope-from fhackers) Message-ID: <19971030224420.52951@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:44:20 +0000 From: James Raynard To: Brandon Gillespie Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: ; from Brandon Gillespie on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:18:37AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:18:37AM -0700, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > I'm not sure if /etc/security is a good place for it, but I think it would > be a good idea to add this check (at least once a week) to somewhere: > > ------------------------------------------------- > echo "checking for invalid user or group ids:" > > find / -nouser -nogroup > ------------------------------------------------- How about adding a check for processes run by non-existent users as well, while we're on the subject? I've seen cases of people's login sessions living on weeks or even months after they've left... -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland. james@jraynard.demon.co.uk http://www.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 17:12:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA26646 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:12:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26632 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00321; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:38:38 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Douglas Carmichael cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:57:49 MDT." <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:38:37 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: I think that's a point; do we want to select a single market? "Fast, stable, secure. Chose three." (too much an in-joke?) "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" "Nine out of ten dentists recommend FreeBSD" mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 17:34:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA28456 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:34:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from kipling.bain.com.au (kipling.aus.deuba.com [203.0.62.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA28447 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:34:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from callum.gibson@aus.deuba.com) Received: from mailhost.bain.com.au (plath [10.179.22.78]) by kipling.bain.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id MAA26441 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:34:44 +1100 (EST) Received: from black (black.bain.com.au [203.0.59.62]) by mailhost.bain.com.au (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id MAA04217 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:34:40 +1100 (EST) From: Callum Gibson Received: (callum@localhost) by black (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA03302 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:34:38 +1100 Message-Id: <199710310134.MAA03302@black> Subject: Re: your commentary gripe (was Re: svgalib? (forget the newbies) ) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:34:38 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Reilly" at Oct 30, 97 03:52:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew Reilly writes: :-)I remember a while ago that a (? Japanese ?) guy put up an :-)automatically html'd, cross-referenced, gee whizz version of the :-)FreeBSD sources (and Linux too). That's probably a bit old by now, but :-)if the tool he used is readily available then you could apply it :-)yourself to the current sources. Warren Toomey's site http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au contains a hyperlinked FreeBSD 2.0.5 tree as well as the src2html program. regards, Callum Callum Gibson callum.gibson@aus.deuba.com Systems, Global Markets Division, DMG Australia. 61 2 9258 1620 ### The opinions presented herein do not represent those of my employer ### From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 17:42:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29221 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:42:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sirocco.CC.McGill.CA (sirocco.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.27.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29211 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:42:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yves@STAFF.McGill.CA) From: yves@STAFF.McGill.CA Received: from staffpop_1.cc.mcgill.ca (staff.McGill.CA [132.206.27.100]) by sirocco.CC.McGill.CA (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01441 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:49:31 -0500 X-SMTP-Posting-Origin: staffpop_1.cc.mcgill.ca (staff.McGill.CA [132.206.27.100]) Received: by staff.McGill.CA with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:39:44 -0500 Message-ID: To: mike@smith.net.au, dcarmich@Mcs.Net Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:39:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Try competing MS with something like: FreeBSD lets you change the IP address without "Restarting the computer". More seriously, just survey the FreeBSD community, asking them why they use/like FreeBSD, that'll give you your slogan. Yves Lepage ----Original Message----- > From: Mike Smith [SMTP:mike@smith.net.au] > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 1997 8:09 PM > To: Douglas Carmichael > Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas > > > Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: > > I think that's a point; do we want to select a single market? > > "Fast, stable, secure. Chose three." (too much an in-joke?) > > "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" > > "Nine out of ten dentists recommend FreeBSD" > > mike > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 17:51:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00238 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:51:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cs.iastate.edu (root@cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00225 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:50:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu) Received: from popeye.cs.iastate.edu (popeye.cs.iastate.edu [129.186.3.4]) by cs.iastate.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA13083; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:50:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (ghelmer@localhost) by popeye.cs.iastate.edu (8.8.7/8.7.1) with SMTP id TAA08142; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:50:43 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: popeye.cs.iastate.edu: ghelmer owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:50:42 -0600 (CST) From: Guy Helmer To: James Raynard cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security In-Reply-To: <19971030224420.52951@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, James Raynard wrote: > On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 10:18:37AM -0700, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > I'm not sure if /etc/security is a good place for it, but I think it would > > be a good idea to add this check (at least once a week) to somewhere: > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > echo "checking for invalid user or group ids:" > > > > find / -nouser -nogroup > > ------------------------------------------------- > > How about adding a check for processes run by non-existent users as well, > while we're on the subject? I've seen cases of people's login sessions > living on weeks or even months after they've left... That's odd -- the current rmuser should kill all of the user's processes (but that change didn't make it into 2.2 until 2.2.5). Guy Helmer, Computer Science Graduate Student - ghelmer@cs.iastate.edu Iowa State University http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer Research Assistant, Scalable Computing Laboratory, Ames Laboratory From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 17:55:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00650 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:55:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00630; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:55:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09969; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd009935; Thu Oct 30 18:55:04 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA07813; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:55:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710310155.SAA07813@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Win 95 PPP faster than pppd? To: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com (Brian J. McGovern) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:55:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199710302312.SAA04687@spoon.beta.com> from "Brian J. McGovern" at Oct 30, 97 06:11:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyhow, today, I ran a Windows 95 client, and a FreeBSD 2.2.2 and 2.2.5 > PPPd client through a remote access server that I'm testing. DTE rate > on the 16550s were 115200 in all cases. VJ compression on, bsd > compression off. I FTP'ed a TSB-standard file that has been rated > "very compressible". I ran dozens of iterations on both the Win 95, > and FreeBSD box, and got consistent results. > > The FreeBSD boxes managed about 8.26 K/s. The modem DTE port > was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps . > > The Win95 box managed about 10.5 K/s. Again, the DTE port on the modem > was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps. > > Anyone care to take a guess at why there is such a difference? I hand-checked > all of the transfer times and file sizes, so both clients are calculating > the throughput properly. I did notice that the FreeBSD boxes are sending > 1 1/2 - 2 times the amount of traffic back upstream (appears to be > acks from TCPDUMP on the FTP Server). Did you disable the T/TCP and piggyback ack? Don't disable piggyback ACK, and try it again. Also, does your remote access server support Microsoft compression? You are aware that you can't turn it off, only cause the negotiation to not be fatal, right? So your turning off BSD compression could mean that the BSD box is sending uncompressed and the Win95 box is sending using Microsoft's compression, negotiated on in violation of IETF standards covering PPP option negotiation. > The only other strangeness I noticed was that the window size on the > Win95 boxes were ~7-8K, compared to the 15-16K on the FreeBSD boxes. This should cause FreeBSD to send less ACK's, not more. > Just to check to see if it was a client problem, I also used fetch to > pull some files. Same results. The issue is the stack, not the program run on top of the stack. If you are saturating the serial port, the *only* thing that could account for rate differences is relative protocol overhead. Compression decreases overhead, as do piggyback ACK's. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 17:59:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00968 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:59:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00945 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:59:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA04747; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:29:15 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:29:15 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: Douglas Carmichael , jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:38:37AM +1030 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:38:37AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: >> Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: > > "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want to do today" Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 18:06:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01592 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:06:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01582 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:06:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA21894; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:05:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971030180558.63267@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:05:58 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Chris Vance Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LKM Interface References: <199710301844.NAA23676@clipper.hq.tis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199710301844.NAA23676@clipper.hq.tis.com>; from Chris Vance on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 01:44:17PM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chris Vance scribbled this message on Oct 30: > > I have recently begun using FreeBSD's LKM interface to test and write > extensions to the base kernel. In the past, I have read messages on > hackers calling for a newer, cleaner LKM interface. > > >From the hackers list archives, I gather that it would be a good idea > to have: > - a defined kernel interface > - a symbol/image mapping to include module symbols in the exported > interface > - efficient loading/unloading (for demand loaded/unloaded modules?) > - ??? > > What are the other details of the desired interface and is there > currently any work being done on this front? actually.. Doug Rabson did some work to get a kernel linker and module design up and running (sys/kern_{module,linker}.c, sys/link_aout.c) and it works quite nicely... utilities to load/unload/stat are kld* in /sbin... this works VERY nicely.. you declare each part of the system as a module, then your handler code will be delivered a load and unload event when they happen.. also at shutdown, your module gets a shutdown event... this works really well.. as the module is the same for both dynamic and staticly link modules... no changes neccessary... right now on my -current boxes, the "module" for new filesystems only require an extra run through ld to make the object files into a sharable image... > I am not using the LKM interface for device drivers or filesystems, > I'm just extending and supplementing miscellaneous existing structures > and interfaces. Since most of the discussion focuses on device > drivers (or which I care very little) I wanted to know how a redesign > will affect other general kernel modules (are they being kept in > mind?). There are many interesting ways a person might want to extend > the kernel while maintaining the claim that it is compatible with the > GENERIC FreeBSD kernel. Also, testing extensions to the kernel are > expedited by the use of modload/modunload rather than /sbin/reboot; > you still get your share of page faults and panics, but iterative > development of a relatively stable extension consumes much less time. actually... I'm going to be also redesigning the bus/device system.. right now each bus has it's own code, and there is no way to easily have one bus be attached to another bus (i.e. pci to isa bridge)... right now my spec so far is: http://resnet.uoregon.edu:6971/~jmg/FreeBSD/busdevice.html but it still needs a lot of work... > I have limited experience with kernel design and theory, but am a > competent BSD kernel programmer. Perhaps I could help with some of > the details that others have already thought through but don't have > time to jump in and implement? LKM's are an area that I would love to > see developed to a greater extent than they currently are. personally, I think lkm's are to limiting... they require specially designed code JUST to handle the lkm problem... I was able to simply take code from a normal kernel compile, run it through ld, and bam, I could load it.. sure it didn't prevent me from unloading and causing a kernel to panic.. :) but then if the code was using the generic module system, that wouldn't of happened... if you have any questions, just ask me... I have the VFS and psuedo devices work... I am working on getting screen savers up and running.. If someone would like to make the screen savers a bit more interesting, they could change the interface to add_scrn_saver so that if would keep a list of "loaded" screen savers, then upon activation, it would randomly select a screen saver... this along with the new code would allow you to staticly compile in a number of screen savers.. and then you would have a nice selection of savers.. ttyl.. -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 18:07:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01642 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01634 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:06:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA16563; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:06:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971030210644.19187@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:06:44 -0500 From: Charles Henrich To: Simon Shapiro Cc: Robin Cutshaw , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Stephen McKay Subject: Re: Perils of login.conf (Was: fsck (2.2.5-RELEASE) large filesy References: <19971028160109.44474@num1sun.intercore.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: ; from Simon Shapiro on Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 09:15:10PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > After installing 2.2.5, I patched in the DPT driver so that the 9 GB > > scsi drives could be accessed. I found that the "daemon" section in > > login.conf does nothing during /etc/rc. I placed a ulimit -a just > > before the fsck there and found that the "default" section was being > > I alerted this list to this problem several times. It probably should be > a sysinstall parameter. I NEVER could boot without changing /etc/rc > without this fix. Actually, I set it to unlimited; It is sensitive to the > number of filesystems checked too. Maybe, I still think the default settings for all system processes should be unlimited. Who is the guy who actually checked these changes in? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 18:14:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02118 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:14:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02111 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:14:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 1334 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Oct 1997 02:15:08 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-100797 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19971030210644.19187@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:15:08 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Charles Henrich Subject: Re: Perils of login.conf (Was: fsck (2.2.5-RELEASE) large filesy Cc: Stephen McKay , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Robin Cutshaw Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Charles Henrich; On 31-Oct-97 you wrote: > > > After installing 2.2.5, I patched in the DPT driver so that the 9 GB > > > scsi drives could be accessed. I found that the "daemon" section in > > > login.conf does nothing during /etc/rc. I placed a ulimit -a just > > > before the fsck there and found that the "default" section was being > > > > I alerted this list to this problem several times. It probably should > > be > > a sysinstall parameter. I NEVER could boot without changing /etc/rc > > without this fix. Actually, I set it to unlimited; It is sensitive to > > the > > number of filesystems checked too. > > Maybe, I still think the default settings for all system processes > should be > unlimited. Who is the guy who actually checked these changes in? Not me :-) Sorry, I really do not know. --- If Microsoft Built Cars: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 18:21:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02539 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02513; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:21:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xR6ge-0002E6-00; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:19:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:19:45 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: "Brian J. McGovern" cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Win 95 PPP faster than pppd? In-Reply-To: <199710302312.SAA04687@spoon.beta.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Brian J. McGovern wrote: > The FreeBSD boxes managed about 8.26 K/s. The modem DTE port > was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps . > > The Win95 box managed about 10.5 K/s. Again, the DTE port on the modem > was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps. Try turning the tcp extensions off. rfc1323 is well known for bloating traffic on p2p links, because it can make vj header compression ineffective. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 18:46:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA03734 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:46:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sky.fit.qut.edu.au (root@sky.fit.qut.edu.au [131.181.2.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03725; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:46:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@russell.icis.qut.edu.au) Received: from packman.icis.qut.edu.au (root@packman.icis.qut.edu.au [131.181.70.70]) by sky.fit.qut.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5/tony) with ESMTP id MAA02037; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:46:00 +1000 (EST) Received: from russell.icis.qut.edu.au (russell.icis.qut.edu.au [131.181.70.49]) by packman.icis.qut.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id MAA24901; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:32:34 +1000 (EST) Received: (from steve@localhost) by russell.icis.qut.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) id MAA11633; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:47:47 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:47:47 +1000 (EST) From: Steve Milliner Message-Id: <199710310247.MAA11633@russell.icis.qut.edu.au> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modem transmision problems?? Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk RECAP: modem overflow problem /kernel: sio3: 78 more tty-level buffer overflows occurs: during mail delivery. tried: decreasing build up of mail on queue to stop flooding modem > Are you using user-mode ppp? If so, it sounds like the machine is > heavily loaded and the ppp process is being starved of CPU for extended > periods of time. > Yep using user ppp. AS for load - not really (98% idle) - not heavy enough to cause starvation in any case - which kind of suggests its a sending rather than receiving problem I guess?? Does anyone know if there are problems with how hang-ups on the client side are handled by FBSD - ie. the mail starts to get pushed on to the device, part way through the connection goes down, but data is still pushed on to the modem which now (obviously) can't get rid of it ?? but I find it hard to believe that this case would not be handeled (ie. sync sending of data to modem) ???? I guess I could go on making up little stories all week, SO Any solutions/experiences (especially solutions :>) would be VERY gratefully reveived! thanks in advance REGS Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 18:55:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04354 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:55:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mother.sneaker.net.au (akm@mother.sneaker.net.au [203.30.3.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04322 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akm@mother.sneaker.net.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by mother.sneaker.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA29132; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:01:00 GMT From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199710311401.OAA29132@mother.sneaker.net.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:01:00 +0000 () Cc: mike@smith.net.au, dcarmich@Mcs.Net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Oct 31, 97 12:29:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk +-----[ Greg Lehey ]------------------------------ | | On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:38:37AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: | >> Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: | > | > "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" | | "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want to do today" "Because it works" -- ,-_|\ SneakerNet | Andrew Milton | GSM: +61(41)6 022 411 / \ P.O. Box 154 | akm@sneaker.net.au | Fax: +61(2) 9746 8233 \_,-._/ N Strathfield +--+----------------------+---+ Ph: +61(2) 9746 8233 v NSW 2137 | Low cost Internet Solutions | From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 18:56:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04459 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:56:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (bob.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04454 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@bob.scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bob.scl.ameslab.gov (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01814 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:56:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199710310256.UAA01814@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:56:00 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry, I can't resist. My friend had a good slogan for NT though... Windows NT/alpha... Turning workstations into PC's. ;) Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 19:09:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA05252 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:09:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (bob.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05246 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:09:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@bob.scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bob.scl.ameslab.gov (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01889; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:08:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199710310308.VAA01889@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John-Mark Gurney cc: Chris Vance , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LKM Interface In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:05:58 PST." <19971030180558.63267@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:08:59 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >actually.. Doug Rabson did some work to get a kernel linker and module >design up and running (sys/kern_{module,linker}.c, sys/link_aout.c) and >it works quite nicely... utilities to load/unload/stat are kld* in >/sbin... Wow.. I didn't realize that this was in current already. :) How do I go about converting my PCI device driver to use it? Also, are there any plans for a transition to the new module system? (elf as well?) >actually... I'm going to be also redesigning the bus/device system.. >right now each bus has it's own code, and there is no way to easily >have one bus be attached to another bus (i.e. pci to isa bridge)... > >right now my spec so far is: >http://resnet.uoregon.edu:6971/~jmg/FreeBSD/busdevice.html >but it still needs a lot of work... Have you taken a look at NetBSD's bus code? They seem to have abstracted things fairly well.. Also, it might be interesting to look into their bus dma framework as well. Chris Csanady From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 19:14:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA05479 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA05457 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:14:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xR7Vm-0002GZ-00; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:12:38 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:12:37 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Joe McGuckin cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mail servers & NFS locking? In-Reply-To: <199710302005.MAA27740@monk.via.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Joe McGuckin wrote: > I want to have a seperate machine as a sendmail/pop email server. > I've heard that on some OS's this can scramble mailboxes if NFS locking > doesn't work. > > For FreeBSD, what is the preferred method to do this? Can I just NFS mount > the mail directory on the user machines? Does NFS locking work? The prefered way is IMAP. I've setup a site with a dedicated mailbox server that is completely closed (13,000 mailboxes), with the only access via POP and IMAP. This limits client selection a bit, but client support is growing. Way better than messing about with NFS and standard UNIX bezerk mailboxes. The worst about mounting /var/mail elsewhere is not NFS locking (which doesn't work right in FreeBSD, however dotlocking is ok), but making sure all the clients are using the correct locking mechanism. If you don't, someones going to lose mail. A good example is an NFS mount scenario where flock() isn't effective (ex. FreeBSD), and the client doesn't get a dotlock, and doesn't notice that something else has a dotlock... oops. > Thanks! > > Joe Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 19:40:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06979 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:40:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06973 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:40:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22085; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:40:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971030194044.15908@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:40:44 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Chris Csanady Cc: Chris Vance , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LKM Interface References: <19971030180558.63267@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199710310308.VAA01889@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199710310308.VAA01889@bob.scl.ameslab.gov>; from Chris Csanady on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 09:08:59PM -0600 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chris Csanady scribbled this message on Oct 30: > >actually.. Doug Rabson did some work to get a kernel linker and module > >design up and running (sys/kern_{module,linker}.c, sys/link_aout.c) and > >it works quite nicely... utilities to load/unload/stat are kld* in > >/sbin... > > Wow.. I didn't realize that this was in current already. :) How do I > go about converting my PCI device driver to use it? Also, are there well.. basicly look at the definition of DECLARE_MODULE.. only problem is that I don't know if the pci bus code can rescan the bus for "new" drivers as they loaded... > any plans for a transition to the new module system? (elf as well?) well.. I'm working on getting the code to run... and once that is done I'll start importing the parts... > >actually... I'm going to be also redesigning the bus/device system.. > >right now each bus has it's own code, and there is no way to easily > >have one bus be attached to another bus (i.e. pci to isa bridge)... > > > >right now my spec so far is: > >http://resnet.uoregon.edu:6971/~jmg/FreeBSD/busdevice.html > >but it still needs a lot of work... > > Have you taken a look at NetBSD's bus code? They seem to have abstracted > things fairly well.. Also, it might be interesting to look into their > bus dma framework as well. I have a bit (not much).. and I didn't link what I saw (I should look closer).. but with this new code, dma is provided by a device driver and not as part of the bus code... who knows why type of isa bus we might encounter in the future? :) also, the design is really quit basic, so the code for it won't be very complex.. the most complex part is supporting the basic abus (address) and bbus (bus) types of busses... abus is a buss where each device is able to be addressed specificily... some examples are pci, isa pnp, mca, eisa, and pccard... a bbus is a bus that really is a bus.. you post information, and any one can consume it.. only bus that I know of that's like this is isa... read the spec... send me comments... :) -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 20:06:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08145 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:06:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08140 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:06:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA28331; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:06:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971030200614.39160@micron.mini.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:06:14 -0800 From: Jonathan Mini To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mike Smith , Douglas Carmichael , jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 12:29:15PM +1030 X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Shorten it : "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want. Today." Periods are our friends. Greg Lehey stands accused of saying: > On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:38:37AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > >> Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: > > > > "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" > > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want to do today" > > Greg -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 20:08:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08296 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:08:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08290 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:08:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01840 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:08:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:08:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Memory VS. Performance under FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anybody have any statistics on memory vs. performance as you go to large memory configurations (>64MB), also what is the biggest RAM configuration possible on a FreeBSD machine? Kind of something like: RAM for x USERS for x MEAN PROCESSES vs x DISK ACCESS From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 20:18:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08837 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:18:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08829 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00220 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:18:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:18:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: top Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I noticed top no longer has the Cache field, just buffer field, what has happened. Is disk caching now being shown under Active field? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 20:19:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:19:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08902 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:19:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00224; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:19:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:19:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Alfred Perlstein cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IDE over scsi? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Probably would make the drive cost more than a comparable SCSI? On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > has anyone heard of a device that you can put an IDE drive on, that will > convert its interface to scsi? > > sort of like a more intellegent bus mastering IDE controller? > > .________________________________________________________________________ __ _ > |Alfred Perlstein - Programming & SysAdmin --"Have you seen my FreeBSD tatoo?" > |perlsta@sunyit.edu --"who was that masked admin?" > |http://www.cs.sunyit.edu/~perlsta > : > ' > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 20:36:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA09708 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:36:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09703 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00305 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:35:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:35:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel Preemption Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What is being done in the area of making the kernel preemptable. I had some issues recently because of the size of blocks that some drivers can read/write and the length of time it might take them could be prehibitive, for instance something that just outb()'s a block, which i have discovered can e as big as a 1/2 megabyte. So in general if this is a long time you have a problem with interactive response. For instance using rtprio 20 maplay x.mp3 to run an mpeg3 file which consumes about 40% cpu time for me usually runs quite nicely (no popping etc). With the exception of a very rare pop under heavy disk load, such as a find on the whole drive. In fact I often do make worlds and run mpeg 3's without a glitch. This should also apply to those interested in burning cd roms. A regualr user can log on while youre doing these things and ruin your whole day via: cat /dev/urandom > /dev/null Now you have a real problem with running any "realtime" processes. What steps can be taken in the freebsd kernel to remedy this sort of thing. I am not saying that urandom should not be in the kernel, just that a better method is needed of doing cpu or time intensive tasks in the kernel. We cannot always depend on ever read/write operation being instantaneous, even if our driver is the most holy of holy interrupt driven stuff. There is no good reason you shouldn't be able to do an intensive calculation in the kernel. Would whatever SMP stuff is being worked on apply here, even without multiple processors? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 21:09:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11403 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:09:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11376 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:09:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA10748; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:06:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:06:45 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Preemption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > What is being done in the area of making the kernel preemptable. I had > some issues recently because of the size of blocks that some drivers can > read/write and the length of time it might take them could be prehibitive, > for instance something that just outb()'s a block, which i have discovered > can e as big as a 1/2 megabyte. So in general if this is a long time you > have a problem with interactive response. > > For instance using rtprio 20 maplay x.mp3 to run an mpeg3 file which > consumes about 40% cpu time for me usually runs quite nicely (no popping > etc). With the exception of a very rare pop under heavy disk load, such as > a find on the whole drive. In fact I often do make worlds and run mpeg > 3's without a glitch. This should also apply to those interested in > burning cd roms. > > A regualr user can log on while youre doing these things and ruin your > whole day via: > > cat /dev/urandom > /dev/null Can't you just use nice(1) to raise the priority of maplay? > > Now you have a real problem with running any "realtime" processes. > What steps can be taken in the freebsd kernel to remedy this sort of > thing. > > I am not saying that urandom should not be in the kernel, just that a > better method is needed of doing cpu or time intensive tasks in the > kernel. We cannot always depend on ever read/write operation being > instantaneous, even if our driver is the most holy of holy interrupt > driven stuff. There is no good reason you shouldn't be able to do an > intensive calculation in the kernel. > > Would whatever SMP stuff is being worked on apply here, even without > multiple processors? > > > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 21:13:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11701 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:13:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11695 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:13:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA26463; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:00:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd026450; Fri Oct 31 05:00:04 1997 Message-ID: <3459656C.500F9F30@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:58:20 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Mike Smith , Douglas Carmichael , jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:38:37AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > >> Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: > > > > "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" > > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want to do today" "get to where you want to go... today." > > Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 21:14:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11751 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:14:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from www2.shoppersnet.com (shoppersnet.com [204.156.152.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11732 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:14:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from digital@www2.shoppersnet.com) Received: (from digital@localhost) by www2.shoppersnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18928; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:15:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:15:06 -0800 (PST) From: Howard Lew To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IDE over scsi? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > > Probably would make the drive cost more than a comparable SCSI? > Depends really... Quantum is making those 12Gig UDMA/33 BigFoots in the $300-$400 range. Now only if SCSI drops were that cheap... or even $100 more, I get one immediately. > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > has anyone heard of a device that you can put an IDE drive on, that will > > convert its interface to scsi? > > > > sort of like a more intellegent bus mastering IDE controller? > > > > .________________________________________________________________________ __ _ > > |Alfred Perlstein - Programming & SysAdmin --"Have you seen my FreeBSD tatoo?" > > |perlsta@sunyit.edu --"who was that masked admin?" > > |http://www.cs.sunyit.edu/~perlsta > > : > > ' > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 22:16:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA14887 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:16:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hwcn.org (main.hwcn.org [199.212.94.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA14853 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hwcn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA10328; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:16:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA09489; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:20:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca: ac199 owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:20:32 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: ac199@james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca Reply-To: hoek@hwcn.org To: Mike Smith cc: stephen farrell , Amancio Hasty , Alfred Perlstein , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? In-Reply-To: <199710301221.WAA00721@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: [re: GGI] > > http://synergy.caltech.edu/~ggi/ [...] > GGI is also *very* Linux-centric; porting it to FreeBSD would be a Lot > Of Work. GGI is supposedly being used for Berlin (Yet-Another-System-To-Replace-X), which claims to strongly support the goal of cross-platform usability. There is fabled to exist a version of GGI that works with X. Following the Berlin list for a week or so, I have my doubts as to wether they or GGI will ever accomplish much, though... -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 22:41:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA16229 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:41:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16218; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 22:41:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00529; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:07:23 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710310637.RAA00529@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Steve Milliner cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modem transmision problems?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:47:47 +1000." <199710310247.MAA11633@russell.icis.qut.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:07:22 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > RECAP: modem overflow problem > > /kernel: sio3: 78 more tty-level buffer overflows > > occurs: during mail delivery. > > tried: decreasing build up of mail on queue to stop flooding modem > > > > Are you using user-mode ppp? If so, it sounds like the machine is > > heavily loaded and the ppp process is being starved of CPU for extended > > periods of time. > > > > Yep using user ppp. Ok. > AS for load - not really (98% idle) - not heavy enough to cause > starvation in any case - which kind of suggests its a sending > rather than receiving problem I guess?? No. Read the manpage entry I posted *again*. It refers to data *arriving* and not being dealt with. > Does anyone know if there are problems with how hang-ups > on the client side are handled by FBSD - ie. the mail starts to get pushed > on to the device, part way through the connection goes down, but data > is still pushed on to the modem which now (obviously) > can't get rid of it ?? but I find it hard to believe that this case would > not be handeled (ie. sync sending of data to modem) ???? I don't understand what you are saying; do you mean that these messages are only ever seen when the line drops? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 23:08:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA17540 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17533 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xRB9r-0002Mi-00; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:06:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:06:13 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Memory VS. Performance under FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > Does anybody have any statistics on memory vs. performance as you go to > large memory configurations (>64MB), also what is the biggest RAM > configuration possible on a FreeBSD machine? > > Kind of something like: > > RAM for x USERS for x MEAN PROCESSES vs x DISK ACCESS That is impossible given your specifications. For example, what is a "user"? What does this "user" do? What are these "processes", and what do they do? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 23:35:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18837 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:35:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18830 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:35:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA08250 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:35:20 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Slogan contest: NOT HERE PLEASE! Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:35:20 -0800 Message-ID: <8247.878283320@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know why Douglas Carmichael decided to suddenly redirect my thread to -hackers from -chat, but it was the *wrong thing to do* so please redirect this back to -chat now or simply trim everything from the cc line! It does not belong in this mailing list! Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 30 23:59:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19843 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:59:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19837 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 23:59:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA26884; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:59:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:59:15 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Chris Csanady cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <199710310256.UAA01814@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Chris Csanady wrote: > Sorry, I can't resist. My friend had a good slogan for NT though... > > Windows NT/alpha... Turning workstations into PC's. ;) I was bored sitting in M$ Word at work one day, so I decided to play with the clipart galleries. I ended up with a piece of paper with 3 sections. 1) A picture of a duck hitting a computer with a hammer, labeled Windows 3.1 2) a picture of a computer chokeing it's operator, labeled Windows 95 3) a picture of a typewriter, labeled Windows NT. I think that about covers it. :) > > Chris > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 00:54:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22610 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:54:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de [141.31.112.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22602 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:54:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA29654; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:53:17 +0100 (MET) From: Wolfgang Helbig Message-Id: <199710310853.JAA29654@rvc1.informatik.ba-stuttgart.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into Workstations In-Reply-To: <19971031162340.39717@lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Oct 31, 97 04:23:40 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:53:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This reminds me of something. FreeBSD is the grandson of 4.2BSD, > right, the operating system which paved the way for the Internet. > There should be some catchy phrase with that, but so far it's eluded > me. Something like > > FreeBSD - the operating system of the Internet FreeBSD: The Source of the Internet Wolfgang From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 01:25:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24351 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:25:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ymris.ddm.on.ca (cisco3-149.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24342; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:25:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dchapes@golden.net) Received: from squigy.ddm.on.ca (squigy.ddm.on.ca [209.47.139.138]) by ymris.ddm.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA20360; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:25:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from dchapes@localhost) by squigy.ddm.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA22235; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:25:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971031042509.23697@golden.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 04:25:09 -0500 From: Dave Chapeskie To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: "Bryn Wm. Moslow" Subject: Re: Password file builds References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: ; from Bryn Wm. Moslow on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 02:00:31PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 02:00:31PM -0800, Bryn Wm. Moslow wrote: > I'm running 2.2.2-RELEASE on a mail server that has several thousand > users. [...] > Password file rebuilds just absolutely HAMMER the system. Whenever > pwd_mkdb is running the whole box literally comes to a standstill I believe that the way FreeBSD handles the password files needs to be changed in order to handle a large number of users efficiently. Currently, unless called with the '-u' argument, pwd_mkdb rebuilds the ENTIRE password database from the text file. You can prevent this by avoiding things like vipw(8) in favor of things like chpass(1) which will call pwd_mkdb with the '-u' argument so that only a single record is rebuilt. This is still inefficient in that chpass keeps the text version of the password file in sync by rewriting the entire file. Ideally if only the db files were updated you'd have: add/delete O(log(n)) rebuild O(n*log(n)) Since chpass rebuilds the text file you get: add/delete O(n) and most of its time is spent writing out the text file. Since vipw rebuilds the whole database you get O(n*log(n)) for ANY change. So if you add users the way adduser(8) does, by stupidly appending to /etc/master.password and calling pwd_mkdb you have each addition taking O(n*log(n)) time whereas by simply using "chpass -a" instead, each addition takes only O(n) time. (ie adduser needs to be fixed!) For batch adding large numbers of users to systems that already have a lot of users (as many ISPs and the like will periodicly do) this changes to O(n^2*log(n)) for adduser(8), O(n^2) for "chpass -a", and O(n*log(n)) for a single vipw. If you make a small modification to chpass to NOT update the text file after each user is added (or to just append to it) then this drops multiple "chpass -a"'s to O(n)! Clearly the way the system handles the text version of the password file is inefficient for a large number of users. Also the usefulness of a text version decreases when you get tons of users (ie any shell scripts that grep the password file should be rewritten in C or perl to use the password database routines). For a friend of mine that wants to run a FreeBSD system with tens or hundreds of thousands of users I suggested he do the following: - Modify chpass and friends to not print a warning for uids > 65535. (I don't know why the warning is there, I've used UIDs>100000 with NFS before, perhaps something to do with NIS?). - Modify chpass and friends to NEVER update the text password file but to set a dirty flag within the database. - Add a flag to chpass for deleting a userid from the database. - Add a new command, say pwd_dump, that rebuilds the text password file from the password database if the dirty bit is set and then clears the dirty bit. BTW, the database already stores "line numbers" so you can maintain arbitrary ordering of the text password file. - Change vipw to print a warning that it may take a long while and call pwd_dump before calling the editor and then finally calling pwd_mkdb. - Run pwd_dump from cron periodically. Shell scripts or users that rely on grepping /etc/password instead of using the password routines won't always get what they expect since the text version may be out of date. Scripts can be rewritten in C or perl to use the password database routines to avoid this and to run _much_ faster. Since my friend's system only allows pop/imap/ftp access to most users the fact that the text version of the password file isn't always up to date doesn't matter. For him I even suggested adding arguments to pwd_dump to only extract a subset of the users (based on uid Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00297 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:44:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua ([195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00261 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 03:44:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rssh@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua) Received: from cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18990; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:38:19 GMT Message-ID: <3459ED5A.9FF16E75@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:38:19 +0000 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710302257.QAA15890@Mercury.mcs.net> <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> <19971031122915.60452@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:38:37AM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > ?? Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: > ? > ? "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" > > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want to do today" > In reality, FreeBSD can not be concurentable ws NT, we have few big problems: 1. bad java support 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. 2. We have not GUI admin interface for FreeBSD, so newbaies will preffer other systems. 3. near 80% of using computers is databases. we have not port of client software for well-known commerce databases (Oracle, Sysbase, Informix) 4. We have not good c++ compiler. gcc is great, but exceptions and namespaces are very important stuff for c++ programmers. And standart string class yet not well in 2.2-stable. > Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 05:13:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04443 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:13:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04423 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:13:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA21768; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:10:27 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:10:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Koum X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <3459ED5A.9FF16E75@cam.grad.ipri.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > In reality, FreeBSD can not be concurentable ws NT, we have few big >problems: > 1. bad java support > 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) > 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. Can't comment here since I don't much on this topic. > 2. We have not GUI admin interface for FreeBSD, > so newbaies will preffer other systems. This is a win in our side. I find it a plus not needing a gui and beeng on the console for the important tasks. As for newbies? Thats why there is NT, so they won't bother us. Just kidding. I think you should learn the OS from the bottom up. First you learn shell, kernel, file system, io, vm, etc and then only you go to X/GUI. I know some "NT Admins" who don't even suspect that NT can be used in the DOS mode (or shell, or emulator, or whatever you call that scary little rectangular DOS looking like prompt). > 3. near 80% of using computers is databases. > we have not port of client software for well-known > commerce databases (Oracle, Sysbase, Informix) Well, I'd say that 90% of computers are used in the network environment and that is where BSD's networking code comes into the picture. NT and it's legacy LAN Manager (for "compatibility") is somewhat behind. But to answer your question: this is not our fault that Informix, Sybase and such choose not to make products for free OSes. I hope that will change soon however. Meanwhile you can use SCO or Linux binaries from those commercial databases if such exist. > 4. We have not good c++ compiler. > gcc is great, but exceptions and namespaces are > very important stuff for c++ programmers. > And standart string class yet not well in 2.2-stable. > Give us time. :) -- Yan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 05:19:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04705 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:19:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from omnix.net (root@omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04700 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:19:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (didier@localhost.omnix.net [127.0.0.1]) by omnix.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA00979 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:19:25 GMT Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:19:25 +0100 (CET) From: Didier Derny To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: lost boot block problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, A friend of mine has had the multiboot removed by windows 95 how can she reinstall the boot block ? thanks for your help -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 05:38:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA05760 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:38:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA05755 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:38:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA27114; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:38:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:38:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Chuck Robey cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Preemption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can't you just use nice(1) to raise the priority of maplay? rtprio is much more effective in giving a process high priority because the priorities are absolute: man 1 rtprio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 05:40:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA05877 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:40:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from quartzo.cirp.usp.br (root@quartzo.cirp.usp.br [143.107.200.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA05869 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aftaha@cirp.usp.br) Received: from arenito.cirp.usp.br ([143.107.200.56]) by quartzo.cirp.usp.br (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03792 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:41:14 -0200 Message-ID: <3459DF6B.590E@cirp.usp.br> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:38:52 -0200 From: Ali Faiez Taha Reply-To: aftaha@cirp.usp.br Organization: CIRP - USP - Ribeirão Preto - SP X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Sendmail problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dear Sir. I have two computer running Unix, one with FreeBSD and another with Linux. These computers are members of a large Network . The domain is cirp.usp.br The first computer is : pirita.cirp.usp.br with FreeBSD The second computer is : quartzo.cirp.usp.br with Linux The e-mail server, ftp server, web server, etc. are on the second computer (quartzo.cirp.usp.br) . I need to configure the computer with FreeBSD to work like a single host, i.e, without mail server but with a WWW server, and be a client of the e-mail server (quartzo.cirp.usp.br). I must make this to read e-mails from quartzo.cirp.usp.br via PINE, ELM, etc. ??? What I need to do with the sendmail.cf files on both computers ??? thanks a lot. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 07:28:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA14459 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:28:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from consys.com (consys.com [209.60.202.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA14445 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:28:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rcarter@consys.com) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (dnstoo.ConSys.COM [209.60.202.195]) by consys.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA26994; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:25:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnstoo.consys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dnstoo.consys.com (8.8.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA05289; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:25:31 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710311525.IAA05289@dnstoo.consys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jan Koum cc: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua, Greg Lehey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 05:10:26 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:25:30 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk }On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: } } > } > In reality, FreeBSD can not be concurentable ws NT, we have few big } >problems: } > 1. bad java support } > 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) } > 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. } } Can't comment here since I don't much on this topic. A visit to javasoft's site turns up: http://www.csi.uottawa.ca/~kwhite/javaport.html Appears to be 1.1.2. Seems to work, unfortunately I spend most of my time in Visual Cafe these days, so I can't say how solid it is. Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 07:56:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA16097 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:56:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA16089 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:56:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from mail.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa19041; 31 Oct 97 10:56 EST Received: from stretch.cs.virginia.edu (atf3r@stretch-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.14]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29012; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from atf3r@localhost) by stretch.cs.virginia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA20411; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:55:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:55:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: Mike Smith cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <199710310108.LAA00321@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > Emphasizing that it can be used for *both* workstations AND servers: > > I think that's a point; do we want to select a single market? > > "Fast, stable, secure. Chose three." (too much an in-joke?) > > "All the power, none of the price. What do you want to do today?" > > "Nine out of ten dentists recommend FreeBSD" "What don't you need/want to reboot today?" "FreeBSD: rebooting optional." "Strong enough for a hacker, but made for a weenie." "The three S's: Secure, Stable, Super-sconic" Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualzation Lab -->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 08:49:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA18801 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:49:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from thor.inlink.com (ultra.inlink.com [206.196.96.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18793 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: from sparc.midwestis.com (sparc.midwestis.com [206.196.126.220]) by thor.inlink.com (8.8.7/V8) with ESMTP id KAA12900 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:49:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from trs.midwestis.com ([209.135.156.244] (may be forged)) by sparc.midwestis.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28726 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:45:53 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971031104854.006c4e58@midwestis.com> X-Sender: rseals@midwestis.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:48:54 -0600 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Ray Seals Subject: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 FreeBSD - When you care enough to run the very best. FreeBSD - Able to conform to your standards. FreeBSD - One less thing to worry about. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNFoL9UElv2mS9Yb2EQKO9gCgi7vRNxPaPcjB0WeXiZ/7gSjTorMAoKXW SenW21XGU1fNgquTCcfemIRf =Bb7H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Ray Seals Network Engineer Midwest Information Systems, Inc. http://www.midwestis.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 08:54:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19145 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:54:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from eurekanet.com (mrphilli@eurekanet.com [206.150.170.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19138 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:54:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrphilli@eurekanet.com) Received: (from mrphilli@localhost) by eurekanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA04398; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:48:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:48:54 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Phillips To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 08:55:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19226 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rma.edu (rma.edu [207.0.141.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19204 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjalwan@rma.edu) Received: from mjalwan.rma.edu ([207.0.141.230]) by rma.edu with SMTP (IPAD 1.52) id 4206000 ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:58:16 -0500 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:20:45 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Alwan To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: current kernel won't build Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To all: I just (10/31--early AM) cvsupped current, then tried to build a kernel--any kernel--without success. One configuration problem I was able to fix: in /i386/conf files.i386 the nxp.c driver library had the keyword "mandatory" instead of "standard." Changing it thus did away with the error message: >i386/isa/npx.c standard npx device-driver Another mystery that causes a non-critical error is the tag in /i386/conf Makefile.i386 for a certain version of config: ># Which version of config(8) is required. >%VERSREQ= 300002 The command "/usr/sbin/config GENERIC" gives this warning (but creates the kernel build directory): >Unknown % construct in generic makefile: %VERSREQ= 300002 But all of my sup's--I deleted and re-supped /src/sys 3 times--failed to build a kernel with this error: >cc -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs >-Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -nostdinc -I- -I. >-I../.. -I../../../include -DFAILSAFE -DCOMPAT_43 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET >-DKERNEL -include opt_global.h -c vers.c >loading kernel >isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment >isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment >isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment >isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment >isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment >isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment >isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment >isa.o: Undefined symbol `_isa_devtab_cam' referenced from text segment >*** Error code 1 > >Stop. I used "nm kernel" to get the symbol table from my working kernel(970807SNAP)--no sign of the undefined symbol above: >f01fb5b8 b _isa_devlist >f01f3b00 D _isa_devtab_bio >f01f3fc8 D _isa_devtab_net >f01f4050 D _isa_devtab_null >f01f3e74 D _isa_devtab_tty >f01cdbe8 T _isa_dma_acquire This is as far as I know how to go. I'll try new kernel sources later. Should I be discussing this on another mailing list, or should I just keep trying until I get something that works? Should I try to make world first? Thanks, Michael ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Michael Alwan Date: 31-Oct-97 Time: 11:20:45 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 09:24:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21173 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:24:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21166 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:24:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xRKmU-0002fZ-00; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:22:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:22:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Dave Chapeskie cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "Bryn Wm. Moslow" Subject: Re: Password file builds In-Reply-To: <19971031042509.23697@golden.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Dave Chapeskie wrote: ... > I think that if done properly the above changes should be incorporated > into FreeBSD and the text password files made optional. Ie, on a small > system like my home system leave things as they are but allow for ISPs > and the like to do away with the text versions. The biggest problem with this is, that there are no tools to fix or verify db files. If the /etc/pwd.db or /etc/spwd.db becomes damaged, you're screwed. Also, there are locking issue with in place updates of db files. Do the pw routines in libc even do locking? I don't think so. What happens if someone calls getpwnam() at the while someone else is writing a new entry into the database? Bang, you're dead. > -- > Dave Chapeskie, DDM Consulting > E-Mail: dchapes@golden.net Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 09:32:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21811 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:32:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21804 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20567; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:31:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24676; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:31:25 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:31:25 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710311731.KAA24676@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Russell L. Carter" Cc: Jan Koum , Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua, Greg Lehey , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas In-Reply-To: <199710311525.IAA05289@dnstoo.consys.com> References: <199710311525.IAA05289@dnstoo.consys.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > } > In reality, FreeBSD can not be concurentable ws NT, we have few big > } >problems: > } > 1. bad java support > } > 1. biss-awt won't work (on 2.2-stable) > } > 2. port of latest jdk from sun is absent. > } > } Can't comment here since I don't much on this topic. > > > A visit to javasoft's site turns up: > > http://www.csi.uottawa.ca/~kwhite/javaport.html > > Appears to be 1.1.2. Really? Last time I looked it was 1.1, but maybe it got updated. > Seems to work, unfortunately I spend most of my time in Visual Cafe > these days, so I can't say how solid it is. It 'mostly' works, although it's not as solid as I'd like. I can get corruptions and all sorts of errors if I push it hard. But, it's no worse than VCafe', which is a pile of crap IMHO. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 09:50:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22940 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:50:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22909 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:50:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03375; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:49:49 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.6.9) id SAA10089; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:49:38 +0100 (CET) X-Face: " Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:49:37 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Chris Csanady , Chris Vance , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LKM Interface References: <19971030180558.63267@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199710310308.VAA01889@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> <19971030194044.15908@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19971030194044.15908@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 07:40:44PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 1997-10-30 19:40 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Wow.. I didn't realize that this was in current already. :) How do I > > go about converting my PCI device driver to use it? Also, are there > > well.. basicly look at the definition of DECLARE_MODULE.. only problem > is that I don't know if the pci bus code can rescan the bus for "new" > drivers as they loaded... PCI LKM support has been in -current for quite some time (I think I added it one year ago), but I temporarily removed it, when I completely rewrote the PCI code. If you need it, it is easy to put back. The API was that the PCI LKM just called pci_register_lkm(struct pci_device *p, int rev) with the parameter of the DATA_SET and rev=0. The rescan was automatically performed from within that LKM registration function. Sorry, I'm in a hurry, now. If there is any need for PCI LKM support, I may be able to put back that feature over the weekend. I also prepared a simple shell script that could be run from /etc/rc and which searched for PCI devices that had no driver compiled in, and tried to modload the corresponding driver (actually used for one ATM card driver, so far). Check the -hackers mail archive about one year back for some more information, the announcement and some discussion on the topic of PCI LKMs. Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 10:12:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24439 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:12:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from cedb.dpcsys.com (cedb.dpcsys.com [206.16.184.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24433 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:12:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@dpcsys.com) Received: from localhost (dan@localhost) by cedb.dpcsys.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA09139; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:10:43 GMT Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:10:42 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Busarow To: Ali Faiez Taha cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sendmail problems In-Reply-To: <3459DF6B.590E@cirp.usp.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Ali Faiez Taha wrote: > The domain is cirp.usp.br > The first computer is : pirita.cirp.usp.br with FreeBSD > The second computer is : quartzo.cirp.usp.br with Linux > [ snip ] > ??? What I need to do with the sendmail.cf files on both computers ??? In your DNS have the MX record for pirita point to quartzo pirita IN MX 0 quartzo.cirp.usp.br. On quartzo you want to use FEATURE(mailertable) with a database that includes pirita.cirp.usp.br esmtp:pirita.cirp.usp.br This would be the equivilant of adding the following to S98 but is more flexible, you can add entries without having sendmail reload its .cf R$+ < @ pirita.cirp.usp.br . > $#esmtp $@ pirita.cirp.usp.br $: \ $1 < @ pirita.cirp.usp.edu . > DON'T use the continuation line in a real rule! You should not need to do anything to pirita's sendmail. Dan -- Dan Busarow 714 443 4172 DPC Systems / Beach.Net dan@dpcsys.com Dana Point, California 83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4 8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 10:31:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25808 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:31:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25782; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:31:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00942; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:31:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971031103101.24679@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:31:01 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Michael Alwan Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: current kernel won't build References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Alwan on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 11:20:45AM -0500 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Alwan scribbled this message on Oct 31: This is a reminder to the people on the other lists... If you want to run -current, you NEED to be subscribe to freebsd-current... This is where all the problems are discussed... > Another mystery that causes a non-critical error is the tag in /i386/conf > Makefile.i386 for a certain version of config: > > ># Which version of config(8) is required. > >%VERSREQ= 300002 > > The command "/usr/sbin/config GENERIC" gives this warning (but creates the > kernel build directory): this means you need to rebuild config, this was suppose to prevent people from making the same mistake you did... [...] > I'll try new kernel sources later. Should I be discussing this on another > mailing list, or should I just keep trying until I get something that works? > Should I try to make world first? you need to read -current... I'm almost postitive that Joerg posted a warning about this to -current in reply to his commit message warning people that rebuilding config is neccessary... also.. reciently Mike Smith was nice enough to post his "Keeping -current w/ FreeBSD" document too.... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 10:34:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25996 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:34:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sinbin.demos.su (sinbin.demos.su [194.87.5.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA25991 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:34:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bag@sinbin.demos.su) Received: by sinbin.demos.su id VAA15139; (8.6.12/D) Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:33:16 +0300 From: bag@sinbin.demos.su (Alex G. Bulushev) Message-Id: <199710311833.VAA15139@sinbin.demos.su> Subject: Re: Password file builds In-Reply-To: <19971031042509.23697@golden.net> from "Dave Chapeskie" at "Oct 31, 97 04:25:09 am" X-ELM-OSV: (Our standard violations) no-mime=1; no-hdr-encoding=1 To: dchapes@golden.net (Dave Chapeskie) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:33:16 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bryn@nwlink.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 02:00:31PM -0800, Bryn Wm. Moslow wrote: > > I'm running 2.2.2-RELEASE on a mail server that has several thousand > > users. > [...] > > Password file rebuilds just absolutely HAMMER the system. Whenever > > pwd_mkdb is running the whole box literally comes to a standstill > > > I believe that the way FreeBSD handles the password files needs to be > changed in order to handle a large number of users efficiently. I write patch for pwd_mkdb perfomance (ache know) but it is incompatible with BSDI etc ... two or three years ago ... Alex. > > Currently, unless called with the '-u' argument, pwd_mkdb rebuilds the > ENTIRE password database from the text file. You can prevent this by > avoiding things like vipw(8) in favor of things like chpass(1) which > will call pwd_mkdb with the '-u' argument so that only a single record > is rebuilt. This is still inefficient in that chpass keeps the text > version of the password file in sync by rewriting the entire file. > > > Ideally if only the db files were updated you'd have: > add/delete O(log(n)) > rebuild O(n*log(n)) > > Since chpass rebuilds the text file you get: > add/delete O(n) > and most of its time is spent writing out the text file. > > Since vipw rebuilds the whole database you get O(n*log(n)) for ANY > change. > > > So if you add users the way adduser(8) does, by stupidly appending to > /etc/master.password and calling pwd_mkdb you have each addition taking > O(n*log(n)) time whereas by simply using "chpass -a" instead, each > addition takes only O(n) time. (ie adduser needs to be fixed!) > > For batch adding large numbers of users to systems that already have a > lot of users (as many ISPs and the like will periodicly do) this changes > to O(n^2*log(n)) for adduser(8), O(n^2) for "chpass -a", and O(n*log(n)) > for a single vipw. If you make a small modification to chpass to NOT > update the text file after each user is added (or to just append to it) > then this drops multiple "chpass -a"'s to O(n)! > > > Clearly the way the system handles the text version of the password file > is inefficient for a large number of users. Also the usefulness of a > text version decreases when you get tons of users (ie any shell scripts > that grep the password file should be rewritten in C or perl to use the > password database routines). > > > For a friend of mine that wants to run a FreeBSD system with tens or > hundreds of thousands of users I suggested he do the following: > > - Modify chpass and friends to not print a warning for uids > 65535. (I > don't know why the warning is there, I've used UIDs>100000 with NFS > before, perhaps something to do with NIS?). > > - Modify chpass and friends to NEVER update the text password file but > to set a dirty flag within the database. > > - Add a flag to chpass for deleting a userid from the database. > > - Add a new command, say pwd_dump, that rebuilds the text password file > from the password database if the dirty bit is set and then clears the > dirty bit. BTW, the database already stores "line numbers" so you can > maintain arbitrary ordering of the text password file. > > - Change vipw to print a warning that it may take a long while and call > pwd_dump before calling the editor and then finally calling pwd_mkdb. > > - Run pwd_dump from cron periodically. > > Shell scripts or users that rely on grepping /etc/password instead of > using the password routines won't always get what they expect since the > text version may be out of date. Scripts can be rewritten in C or perl > to use the password database routines to avoid this and to run _much_ > faster. > > Since my friend's system only allows pop/imap/ftp access to most users > the fact that the text version of the password file isn't always up > to date doesn't matter. For him I even suggested adding arguments to > pwd_dump to only extract a subset of the users (based on uid system accounts or shell users) to save space and time. > > > I think that if done properly the above changes should be incorporated > into FreeBSD and the text password files made optional. Ie, on a small > system like my home system leave things as they are but allow for ISPs > and the like to do away with the text versions. > > If others think something like this would be useful (as an option, > not the default of course) I'd consider doing the above changes and > submitting it. > > -- > Dave Chapeskie, DDM Consulting > E-Mail: dchapes@golden.net > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 10:37:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26240 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:37:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26230; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21028; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA25036; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:37:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:37:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710311837.LAA25036@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Michael Alwan Cc: questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: current kernel won't build In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ># Which version of config(8) is required. Did you rebuild config? Rebuild config(8) and I'll bet all the problems will go away. This is a FAQ!!!! Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 11:15:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28476 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:15:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28468 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:15:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07431; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:14:12 -0500 (EST) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" Message-Id: <199710311914.OAA07431@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Looking for ways to do serial datalogging on FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:14:12 -0500 (EST) Cc: rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User RDKEYS Robert D. Keys) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If I wanted to use a serial port as a datalogging input port on FreeBSD, from, for example a small outboard box emitting lines of data at 300 baud continuously, what might be good ways to do that? Ideally, I would like to have a script or a small program running that would poll the system clock, poll the port for a line of data at hourly intervals, write that line to a logfile, then sit until the next hour, and repeat, over the course of several weeks or months. Basically, all it is a stripchart temperature recorder. On DOS, where the system currently runs it is a few lines of code in C or Basic or Fortran. I was thinking it would be neat to have my FreeBSD box do that, since it is sitting in the lab across from where the temperatures are being measured, and retire the aging DOS box. The first serial port is the currently the mouse, but the second could be used. It is, at present, disabled in the kernel, but could be re- configured enabled, if necessary. In another direction, could one of the generic data acquisition boards be used to do this, instead. I have heard that that is not always easy to do on a unix box. Someone on freebsd-questions mentioned that analog-digital data acquisition had been tossed about on the hackers list, so I though I would check. Any pointers, resource-persons, etc., are appreciated. I am sure lots of folks have done this type of thing before, right? Thanks Bob Keys rdkeys@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 11:33:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29411 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:33:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (l5hkyWYf3CAcyIz00tWIOMKWJIBWeMSX@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29406 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:33:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([xg8l0VBPzKpo7Ti+Ga2bqNIeEuw0FN44]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xRMpJ-0005ul-00; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:33:49 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xRMp0-0002bc-00; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:33:30 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:33:30 +0000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Distributed systems/processing using FreeBSD Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I was wondering if anyone had any pointers to information or comments on using FreeBSD as the base operating system on which to build some infrastructure useful in distributed systems/processing. I am currently looking at a number of projects for my final year project in college, and should be deciding on one soon. Two of them really belong in an operating system kernel and therefore hopefully merit some discussion here: - distributed filesystem; a high performance (intelligent caching and replication of data), secure (authentication and encryption), heterogenous and hopefully relatively lightweight distributed filesystem with conventional filesystem semantics (distributed locking) (By lightweight I mean that it should be easy to setup and use, hopefully as straightforward as plain old NFS) - a library of useful communication primitives for distributed parallel processing, e.g. distributed shared memory, distributed semaphores Also, if anyone else is working on similar areas or would like to do some stress/beta testing I'd be interested in hearing from them too. Yours sincerely, Niall Smart From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 12:48:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04062 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:48:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from intercore.com (num1sun.intercore.com [199.181.243.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04056 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:48:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robin@intercore.com) Received: (robin@localhost) by intercore.com (8.7.1/8.6.4) id PAA13532; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:45:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971031154504.49078@num1sun.intercore.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:45:04 -0500 From: Robin Cutshaw To: Nate Williams Cc: "Russell L. Carter" , Jan Koum , Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua, Greg Lehey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710311525.IAA05289@dnstoo.consys.com> <199710311731.KAA24676@rocky.mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <199710311731.KAA24676@rocky.mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 10:31:25AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 10:31:25AM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > > > Seems to work, unfortunately I spend most of my time in Visual Cafe > > these days, so I can't say how solid it is. > > It 'mostly' works, although it's not as solid as I'd like. I can get > corruptions and all sorts of errors if I push it hard. But, it's no > worse than VCafe', which is a pile of crap IMHO. > I've been working with VCafe' and not been terribly happy. I just picked up a copy of JBuilder and it looks better. I'm anxious to try the apps it generates on FreeBSD. robin -- ---- Robin Cutshaw internet: robin@interlabs.com robin@intercore.com Internet Labs, Inc. BellNet: 404-817-9787 robin@XFree86.Org "Time is just one damn thing after another" -- PBS/Nova ---- -- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 12:53:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04279 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from tvainet.tva.gov (tvainet.tva.gov [152.85.133.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA04269 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:53:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tjswanson@tva.gov) Received: from topaz_hme.cha.tva.gov by tvainet.tva.gov via smtpd (for hub.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.18]) with SMTP; 31 Oct 1997 20:53:11 UT Received: from chachaois2b.cha.tva.gov (chachaois2b.cha.tva.gov [152.85.66.29]) by topaz.cha.tva.gov (8.8.6/8.7.3/8.7.5-topaz) with SMTP id PAA08441 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by chachaois2b.cha.tva.gov with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BCE615.15F32810@chachaois2b.cha.tva.gov>; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:53:09 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Swanson, Toby J." To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'toby@milkyway.org'" Subject: NIS Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:53:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am running 2.1.7 on a 486-33MHz host named scar. I am attempting to use NIS to authenticate logins on this machine. Everything starts up without any error messages, but only local login ids and passwords are accepted at a login prompt. I have added the '+' entries to /etc/passwd, /etc/group and /etc/aliases and have uncommented the NIS entry in /etc/host.conf. I start ypbind successfully, then ypwhich shows I am bound to the master server in my domain named gie (a Sun Ultra Enterprise 4000 running Solaris 2.5.1). When I run 'ypwhich scar' on the server I get an error message of "ypwhich: can't call ypbind on scar: RPC: program/version mismatch; low version = 2, high version = 2". Running 'ypwhich -V2 scar' returns gie. Running rpcinfo and grepping for yp on gie yields (header added); program version netid address service owner 100004 2 udp 0.0.0.0.3.4 ypserv superuser 100004 1 udp 0.0.0.0.3.4 ypserv superuser 100004 1 tcp 0.0.0.0.3.5 ypserv superuser 100004 2 tcp 0.0.0.0.128.10 ypserv superuser 100004 2 ticotsord \000\000\020X ypserv superuser 100004 2 ticots \000\000\020[ ypserv superuser 100007 3 udp 0.0.0.0.128.14 ypbind superuser 100007 2 udp 0.0.0.0.128.14 ypbind superuser 100007 1 udp 0.0.0.0.128.14 ypbind superuser 100007 3 tcp 0.0.0.0.128.11 ypbind superuser 100007 2 tcp 0.0.0.0.128.11 ypbind superuser 100007 1 tcp 0.0.0.0.128.11 ypbind superuser 100007 3 ticlts \000\000\020{ ypbind superuser 100007 3 ticotsord \000\000\020\177 ypbind superuser 100007 3 ticots \000\000\020\203 ypbind superuser 100009 1 udp 0.0.0.0.3.22 yppasswdd superuser Running rpcinfo -p scar on scar yields; program vers proto port 100000 2 tcp 111 rpcbind 100000 2 udp 111 rpcbind 100007 2 udp 676 ypbind 100007 2 tcp 678 ypbind 100005 1 udp 682 mountd 100005 1 tcp 683 mountd Is there a place on the FreeBSD web site to look for NIS related problems? Does anyone know of any solutions or workarounds for this problem? I have the O'Reilly book on NFS and NIS but it does not seem to address this problem. Any help will be appreciated very much. Toby (tjswanson@tva.gov, please cc toby@milkyway.org if possible) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 13:00:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA04645 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:00:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from numachi.numachi.com ([198.175.254.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA04629 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reichert@numachi.numachi.com) Received: (from reichert@localhost) by numachi.numachi.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA02821; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:59:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971031155948.08909@numachi.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:59:48 -0500 From: Brian Reichert To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: named.restart uses /etc/sysconfig Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey! On my 2.2.2-R box, just found that named.resart ( or rather, the code it invokes [ /usr/sbin/ndc ] ) does this: # If there is a global system configuration file, suck it in. if [ -f /etc/sysconfig ]; then . /etc/sysconfig fi Not useful. By replacing the above filename with '/etc/rc.conf', and replacing all instances of 'namedflags' with 'named_flags', it behaves. It this straightened out in 2.2.5? -- Brian Reichert reichert@numachi.com 37 Crystal Ave. #303 Derry NH 03038-1713 USA Intel architecture: the left-hand path From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 13:43:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07124 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:43:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07111 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:43:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA25551; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:43:07 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710312143.QAA25551@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Memory VS. Performance under FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from "Jamil J. Weatherbee" at "Oct 30, 97 08:08:41 pm" To: jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org (Jamil J. Weatherbee) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:43:07 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jamil J. Weatherbee said: > > Does anybody have any statistics on memory vs. performance as you go to > large memory configurations (>64MB), also what is the biggest RAM > configuration possible on a FreeBSD machine? > > Kind of something like: > > > RAM for x USERS for x MEAN PROCESSES vs x DISK ACCESS > Can't answer that specific question. However, there is kind of a design "idea" that it should work with 3GB of RAM. That would require significant kernel tuning, because few of us have any experience with machines that large. We have avoided or fixed terrible algorithms like O(n^2,3,4) stuff. We still have stuff that can be improved, but we are making continual progress. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 14:08:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08703 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from eng.svic.com ([207.88.47.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08683; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:08:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from elh@eng.svic.com) Received: from xy.svic.com (xy [192.168.4.6]) by eng.svic.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01637; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from xy.svic.com by xy.svic.com (8.8.5) id OAA00340; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:08:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710312208.OAA00340@xy.svic.com> To: bugs@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org cc: elh@svic.com, elh@spnet.com Subject: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:08:21 -0800 From: Ed Hudson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk howdy. i just tried to install 2.2.5 on a 1gig pentium pro machine and got the error message (something like): panic: bounce memory out of range i assume the solution to this is prepare an installation kernel w/o bounce buffers enabled (0 isa stuff in the machine, so ok). any other suggestions? (other than take the memory out - hard to do in this case). (similarly, if i'd appreciate any pointers on simple generation of a bootmfs image...) thanks, and thanks again for all the good work you folks do to keep freebsd the worlds best operating system. -elh From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 14:50:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10801 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:50:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr01.primenet.com (tlambert@usr01.primenet.com [206.165.6.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10793 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:50:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20311; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:49:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710312249.PAA20311@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas To: mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu (Jonathan Mini) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:49:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, dcarmich@Mcs.Net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971030200614.39160@micron.mini.net> from "Jonathan Mini" at Oct 30, 97 08:06:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want. Today." > > Periods are our friends. Microsoft asks "where do you want to go today?". Finally, this burning question can be answered. FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 14:53:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10973 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:53:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10963 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:53:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA00247; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:52:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971031145226.40191@micron.mini.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:52:26 -0800 From: Jonathan Mini To: Terry Lambert Cc: grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, dcarmich@Mcs.Net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <19971030200614.39160@micron.mini.net> <199710312249.PAA20311@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199710312249.PAA20311@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 10:49:31PM +0000 X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want. Today." > > > > Periods are our friends. > > Microsoft asks "where do you want to go today?". > > Finally, this burning question can be answered. > > FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. Hmm. Makes it sound like a demand. Visions of large buff men in black suits an sunglasses holding baseball bats comes to mind. We could do a spin off of that certain credit card ad : FreeBSD: It's where you want to be. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 15:01:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA11344 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:01:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11334 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:01:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00264; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:01:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971031150124.02035@micron.mini.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:01:24 -0800 From: Jonathan Mini To: Terry Lambert Cc: grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, dcarmich@Mcs.Net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <19971030200614.39160@micron.mini.net> <199710312249.PAA20311@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199710312249.PAA20311@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 10:49:31PM +0000 X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Better yet : Show that things HAVE happened, not that things WILL happen. FreeBSD: Where did you go today? Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want. Today." > > > > Periods are our friends. > > Microsoft asks "where do you want to go today?". > > Finally, this burning question can be answered. > > FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 15:12:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA11798 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:12:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr01.primenet.com (tlambert@usr01.primenet.com [206.165.6.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11791 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:12:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA22691; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:12:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710312312.QAA22691@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas To: mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu (Jonathan Mini) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:12:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, mike@smith.net.au, dcarmich@Mcs.Net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971030200614.39160@micron.mini.net> from "Jonathan Mini" at Oct 30, 97 08:06:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > "All the power, none of the price. Do what you want to do today" Too ad FreeBSD doesn't have a budget for attack ads... 8-). Start the "Start Me Up..." commercial. 5 seconds in, back camera out: it's running on a Windows 95 box in a teeny little 640x480 window. Volume down on "Start me up..." stand: "Doesn't it get any bigger than that?" sit: "I'd have to drop the screen resoloution" stand: "well?" They go off to find the "display properties". The one in back is pointing and and giving directions to the one sitting in front. It's obvious that two people have a hard time doing this. stand: "800x600?" sit: "640x480..." stand: "you sure?" sit: Well, we can try the other one if it doesn't work..." You must reboot you computer for the changes to take effect. stand: "You have to reboot?" sit: "Yeah... hang on..." They click 'OK'; the commercial is about to repeat a "Start Me Up..", but an "end task?" comes up, and they have to click "OK"... stand: "I thought it was multitasking?" sit: The first "Start Me Up..." hits just as he click "OK"... stand: sit: "Shut me down... Shut me down... You make a grown man cryyyy-yyyy..." Turn roller chair to FreeBSD box... Run a video trailer... also tiny. Control-minus, Control-minus, Control-minus -- it's now full screen. View from FreeBSD monitor angle, with Windows 95 in the background "It's now Safe to Turn off your Computer...", In foregroung, "stand" looks surprised. Switch back to FreeBSD screen "beep, you have mail"... ... Etc. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 15:18:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12119 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:18:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr01.primenet.com (tlambert@usr01.primenet.com [206.165.6.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12110 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23176; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:18:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710312318.QAA23176@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Memory VS. Performance under FreeBSD To: tom@sdf.com (Tom) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:18:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Tom" at Oct 30, 97 11:06:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Kind of something like: > > > > RAM for x USERS for x MEAN PROCESSES vs x DISK ACCESS > > That is impossible given your specifications. For example, what is a > "user"? What does this "user" do? What are these "processes", and what > do they do? An interactive user is a controlling tty. A generic user is a process group leader. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 15:26:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12438 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:26:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from usr01.primenet.com (tlambert@usr01.primenet.com [206.165.6.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12433 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:26:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23834; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:25:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199710312325.QAA23834@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: FreeBSD GUI, revisited (was Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas) To: jkb@best.com (Jan Koum) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:25:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Ruslan@shevchenko.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jan Koum" at Oct 31, 97 05:10:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 2. We have not GUI admin interface for FreeBSD, > > so newbaies will preffer other systems. > > This is a win in our side. I find it a plus not needing a gui and > beeng on the console for the important tasks. As for newbies? Thats why > there is NT, so they won't bother us. Just kidding. I think you should > learn the OS from the bottom up. First you learn shell, kernel, file > system, io, vm, etc and then only you go to X/GUI. I know some "NT Admins" > who don't even suspect that NT can be used in the DOS mode (or shell, or > emulator, or whatever you call that scary little rectangular DOS looking > like prompt). The whole point is that you will never get the users who believe you should *not* have to use the OS, only the *applications* that run *on* the OS. Your requirements list makes it look like you must be a computer scientist to run a decent OS. Your bar is too high for users. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 15:38:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13104 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:38:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13099 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:38:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id PAA10152 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:28:09 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:28:09 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199710312328.PAA10152@monk.via.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NCR boot error msg X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE #0: Fri Oct 31 15:30:11 GMT 1997 joe@www3.via.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/WWW3 CPU: Pentium Pro (299.15-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x633 Stepping=3 Features=0x80fbff,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV> real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) avail memory = 63598592 (62108K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 pci0:7:2: Intel Corporation, device=0x7020, class=0x0c, subclass=0x03 int d irq 10 [no driver assigned] vx0 <3COM 3C905 Fast Etherlink XL PCI> rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:11 mii[*mii*]: disable 'auto select' with DOS util! address 00:60:08:3e:c4:ca ncr0 rev 4 int a irq 11 on pci0:14 ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr0:0:0): "QUANTUM XP32275W LXY4" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access sd0(ncr0:0:0): WIDE SCSI (16 bit) enabled sd0(ncr0:0:0): 40.0 MB/s (50 ns, offset 16) 2170MB (4445380 512 byte sectors) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: . . . ze0 not found at 0x300 zp0 not found at 0x300 npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface changing root device to sd0a IP packet filtering initialized, divert disabled, logging disabled ncr0: aborting job ... ncr0:0: ERROR (90:0) (8-0-0) (0/5) @ (script 5b4:50000000). ncr0: script cmd = 80000000 ncr0: regdump: de 00 00 05 47 00 0f 0f 35 08 00 00 90 00 0f 02. ncr0: restart (fatal error). sd0(ncr0:0:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 ff) @f2dd0800. sd0(ncr0:0:0): WIDE SCSI (16 bit) enabledsd0(ncr0:0:0): 40.0 MB/s (50 ns, offset 16) There's a 20 second delay for the NCR controller timeout, the error messages are printed then the system continue to boot. After the system boots, everything seems to run ok. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 15:40:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13308 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:40:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13302; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:40:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA26046; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:40:46 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199710312340.SAA26046@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines In-Reply-To: <199710312208.OAA00340@xy.svic.com> from Ed Hudson at "Oct 31, 97 02:08:21 pm" To: elh@svic.com (Ed Hudson) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:40:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@svic.com, elh@spnet.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ed Hudson said: > > howdy. > > i just tried to install 2.2.5 on a 1gig > pentium pro machine and got the error > message (something like): > This is just a guess (I am normally in the guts of the kernel, and not involved with installs.) You'll have to limit the memory during installation with changing the iosiz parameter to be something like 32768 or somesuch. You should be able to install then. Afterwards, rebuild the GENERIC or some other customized kernel to avoid bounce-buffers. You'll also run into kernel address space problems, where others have solutions for that problem. There is nothing limiting us to less than 3GB, other than config issues :-(. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 15:48:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13720 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:48:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13715 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:48:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA25106 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:48:51 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: U.S. Mirrors wanted [was "Jim Barrett": FreeBSD Mirrors] Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:48:51 -0800 Message-ID: <25102.878341731@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim has identified a growing problem with our U.S. mirror sites and thus I figured I'd cite his posting in support of a request I'd like to make at this time for more FreeBSD mirrors at well-connected and reasonably useful (e.g. at least 50-100 anonymous FTP users allowed) sites. Any takers? Please read http://www.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD before volunteering as it contains important prerequisite information which you may wish to consider before stepping forward. Thanks! Jordan ------- Forwarded Message From: "Jim Barrett" To: Subject: FreeBSD Mirrors Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:26:20 -0500 Message-Id: <01bce64c$038ce6c0$4681d2cc@default.stny.lrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 There seems to be a problem with the US mirror sites for FreeBSD. In the past, I have found them to be quite reliable - but that no longer seems to be the case. ftp 4, 5 and 6 are off-line completely. I'm getting DNS look-up failures on these three sites from 4 different ISP's. ftp 2 and 3 are on-line, but neither is complete. ftp2 has the base installation binaries for 2.2.5-RELEASE, but lacks the XFree86-3.3.1 distribution. ftp3 does not have 2.2.5-RELEASE at all... it appears that there have been no file updates at this site since Sept 30th. Any word on when (or if) ftp 4 5 or 6 will return to active status? Regards, Jim Barrett info@weny.com ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 16:18:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15132 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA15125 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:18:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joe@via.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id QAA10474 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:08:27 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:08:27 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199711010008.QAA10474@monk.via.net> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: followup to: NCR boot error msg X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After removing several unneeded controller entries from my config, this error as gone away. joe From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 16:39:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16296 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16291; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:39:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25276; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:40:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711010040.QAA25276@implode.root.com> To: "John S. Dyson" cc: bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@svic.com Subject: Re: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:40:46 EST." <199710312340.SAA26046@dyson.iquest.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:40:21 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Ed Hudson said: >> >> howdy. >> >> i just tried to install 2.2.5 on a 1gig >> pentium pro machine and got the error >> message (something like): >> >This is just a guess (I am normally in the guts of the >kernel, and not involved with installs.) > >You'll have to limit the memory during installation >with changing the iosiz parameter to be something >like 32768 or somesuch. You should be able to install >then. The problem with this is that the memory is already sized before 'userconfig' is called (it needs to be that way for various reasons). This basically means that we can't limit the memory during an install. You'll have to physically pull out some of the memory and/or replace it with lower density SIMMs until you've finished the installation and built a customized kernel. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 16:46:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16778 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:46:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16770; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:46:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id TAA00336; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:46:23 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199711010046.TAA00336@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines In-Reply-To: <199711010040.QAA25276@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Oct 31, 97 04:40:21 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:46:23 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@svic.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman said: > >Ed Hudson said: > >> > >> howdy. > >> > >> i just tried to install 2.2.5 on a 1gig > >> pentium pro machine and got the error > >> message (something like): > >> > >This is just a guess (I am normally in the guts of the > >kernel, and not involved with installs.) > > > >You'll have to limit the memory during installation > >with changing the iosiz parameter to be something > >like 32768 or somesuch. You should be able to install > >then. > > The problem with this is that the memory is already sized before > 'userconfig' is called (it needs to be that way for various reasons). This > basically means that we can't limit the memory during an install. You'll > have to physically pull out some of the memory and/or replace it with > lower density SIMMs until you've finished the installation and built a > customized kernel. > Sorry for causing confusion... :-). -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 16:54:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA17239 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:54:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17218 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:54:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-88.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.88]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA30506; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:53:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA08496; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:05:51 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711010005.SAA08496@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: Looking for ways to do serial datalogging on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Message from "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:14:12 EST." <199710311914.OAA07431@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:05:51 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If I wanted to use a serial port as a datalogging input port on FreeBSD, > from, for example a small outboard box emitting lines of data at 300 baud > continuously, what might be good ways to do that? > > Ideally, I would like to have a script or a small program running that > would poll the system clock, poll the port for a line of data at hourly > intervals, write that line to a logfile, then sit until the next hour, > and repeat, over the course of several weeks or months. Haven't tried this, but for starters: #!/bin/sh IFS="" # Hopefully a simple "echo" wakes up the data board # and prompts it to spit out its information. If not, then # its time to play with stty. echo read line # You could read the date into a DATE then echo "$DATE \c" # and get the line of data AND the date on the same line. # See "man date" to learn how to format date's output. date >> logfile echo $line >> logfile exit 0 Then execute the above in crontab every hour, or whenever, something like this: #min hr day mo dow command 1 * * * 1-7 script < /dev/cuaaX > /dev/cuaaX 2> stderr Make sure you don't have a getty on the port in /etc/ttys. And the user you run your process as has RW on the port you use. Set the sio parameters on /dev/cuaiaX rather than setting them every time you open the port. See /etc/rc.serial. Put your settings there so you survive and restart after a reboot. > Basically, all > it is a stripchart temperature recorder. On DOS, where the system > currently runs it is a few lines of code in C or Basic or Fortran. > I was thinking it would be neat to have my FreeBSD box do that, since > it is sitting in the lab across from where the temperatures are being > measured, and retire the aging DOS box. This is the kind of thing that's almost trivial for Unix. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 16:56:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA17443 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:56:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from eng.svic.com ([207.88.47.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17423; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:56:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from elh@eng.svic.com) Received: from xy.svic.com (xy [192.168.4.6]) by eng.svic.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02711; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from xy.svic.com by xy.svic.com (8.8.5) id QAA00276; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:56:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711010056.QAA00276@xy.svic.com> To: "John S. Dyson" cc: dg@root.com, bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@svic.com, elh@spnet.com Subject: Re: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:46:23 EST." <199711010046.TAA00336@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:56:12 -0800 From: Ed Hudson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk folks, thanks for the suggestions and clarifications. however, am i incorrect in my assumption that i can from another (2.2.5) machine rebuild the boot floppy w/o bounce buffers (and w/o any of the isa controllers that depend upon it) ? (in this case, internal access to the machine is the choice of last resort). btw, if i recollect correctly, i upgraded this machine from 2.2.1 to 2.2.2, all with the 1gig installed (2.2.2 just couldn't see the whole gig until i modified the kernel configuration and rebuilt). also, as a generic workaround, it would probably be usefull if at boot time i could say something like: boot: fd(0,a)/kernel -c MAXMEM=16384K thx, -elh > The problem with this is that the memory is already sized before > 'userconfig' is called (it needs to be that way for various reasons). This > basically means that we can't limit the memory during an install. You'll > have to physically pull out some of the memory and/or replace it with > lower density SIMMs until you've finished the installation and built a > customized kernel. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 17:08:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18320 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:08:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18313; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00422; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:08:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:08:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Ed Hudson cc: bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@spnet.com Subject: Operating system stability In-Reply-To: <199710312208.OAA00340@xy.svic.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Are there any statistics to support the claim that FreeBSD is one of the worlds most stable Operating Systems? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 17:09:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18370 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:09:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18365 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:09:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fhackers@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2010098; 1 Nov 97 1:00 GMT Received: (from fhackers@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04036; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:44:15 GMT (envelope-from fhackers) Message-ID: <19971031204414.43378@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:44:14 +0000 From: James Raynard To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD slogan/advert ideas References: <199710310256.UAA01814@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 01:59:15AM -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > > 1) A picture of a duck hitting a computer with a hammer, labeled Windows > 3.1 > 2) a picture of a computer chokeing it's operator, labeled Windows 95 > 3) a picture of a typewriter, labeled Windows NT. Seeing as it's Friday, how about a FreeBSD promo video? 1. A picture of a user happily using a computer labelled FreeBSD, with Chuck smiling benevolently in the background. Voice over: "FreeBSD is a highly stable OS, resulting from many man-years of development work. A wide range of applications are provided and many more can be installed using a few simple commands" etc 2. Chuck waves his trident and the computer is suddenly connected to the Internet. User beams with delight as the FreeBSD home page comes up. V/o "FreeBSD comes with highly advanced, tried and tested, networking software, the same software used by the majority of the world's Internet servers. FreeBSD is an ideal platform for Web servers on internal and external corporate networks" blah blah 3. Chuck waves his trident again and our user is connected to lots of other friendly faces all networking away on FreeBSD boxes. V/o "FreeBSD allows you to add users to your network without having to worry about licensing complications" 4. Chuck challenges the user to a game of deathmatch Doom (sorry, this corporate bullsh*t's getting on my nerves). -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland. james@jraynard.demon.co.uk http://www.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 17:11:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18471 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:11:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18463 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:11:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00429 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:11:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:11:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: >64MB Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Why does the bootloader only report 64MB if you have >64MB you know right above the boot: prompt? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 17:15:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18712 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:15:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18707 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:15:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fhackers@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk ([158.152.42.77]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2010089; 1 Nov 97 1:00 GMT Received: (from fhackers@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA02909; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:05:43 GMT (envelope-from fhackers) Message-ID: <19971031200542.27049@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:05:42 +0000 From: James Raynard To: Guy Helmer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security References: <19971030224420.52951@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: ; from Guy Helmer on Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 07:50:42PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 07:50:42PM -0600, Guy Helmer wrote: > On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, James Raynard wrote: > > > How about adding a check for processes run by non-existent users as well, > > while we're on the subject? I've seen cases of people's login sessions > > living on weeks or even months after they've left... > > That's odd -- the current rmuser should kill all of the user's processes > (but that change didn't make it into 2.2 until 2.2.5). Ah sorry, I didn't realise it did that now. (The machines I was referring to weren't FreeBSD ones, BTW). If you're still in the mood for suggestions, how about an option to tar and zip up the user's home directory and archive it somewhere before deleting it? Sometimes people leave useful things in there and no-one realises until they're needed several weeks later - and restoring from an off-site backup is slow and inconvenient (assuming the tape hasn't been recycled by then). -- James Raynard, Edinburgh, Scotland. james@jraynard.demon.co.uk http://www.freebsd.org/~jraynard/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 17:48:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20501 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:48:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (root@coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20494; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) Received: from localhost (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.8.5/3.6Wbeta6) with ESMTP id KAA28546; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:47:50 +0900 (JST) To: dg@root.com cc: "John S. Dyson" , bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@svic.com In-reply-to: dg's message of Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:40:21 PST. <199711010040.QAA25276@implode.root.com> X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 10:47:49 +0900 Message-ID: <28542.878348869@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The problem with this is that the memory is already sized before >'userconfig' is called (it needs to be that way for various reasons). This >basically means that we can't limit the memory during an install. You'll >have to physically pull out some of the memory and/or replace it with >lower density SIMMs until you've finished the installation and built a >customized kernel. Current userconfig menu in the kernel is very nice (I was surprised when I saw this for the first time), but I believe it is good to have some device configuration menu/option/whatever in /boot. (on bsdi we can disable devices that way. Also, /boot will look for the default settings in /etc/boot.default. In this way the settings can be kept the same over kernel reconfiguration) itojun From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 17:58:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA21086 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:58:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from eng.svic.com ([207.88.47.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21081 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:58:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from elh@eng.svic.com) Received: from xy.svic.com (xy [192.168.4.6]) by eng.svic.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03040; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:58:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from xy.svic.com by xy.svic.com (8.8.5) id RAA00411; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:58:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711010158.RAA00411@xy.svic.com> To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: Ed Hudson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@spnet.com Subject: Re: Operating system stability In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:08:15 PST." Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 17:58:41 -0800 From: Ed Hudson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" > > Are there any statistics to support the claim that FreeBSD is one of the > worlds most stable Operating Systems? > forgive me for taking the bait... well, i base this on personal experience with SunOS 4.1.4, Slolaris 5.5.1, Linux (some rev 2.0-), RISCos, HPUX 9+10, ESIX, OSF1, and the horror stories i hear from my friends that used to install SCO and now install NT. secondly, people have published statistics for FreeBSD (and its predecessors) with many months of uptime. buy and run what you want. i work (use) and program in a multi-os (unix,nt) environment, and this experience leads me to use, and prosthelitize, FreeBSD. Linux vs FreeBSD: both are EXCELLENT os's, and both benefit from their competetion with each other, as do all of the *bsd's. i design chips, and write programs that work with huge data files. these two considerations make freebsd a better choice than linux (because of capacity reasons) for this type of work. however, i'd happily use linux any day over any ms product, on moral grounds alone. -elh one last ms dig: if the mba's were right, we'd all still be using vm/cms (or jcl...) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 18:13:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA21784 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:13:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.5.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA21779 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23713; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023702; Fri Oct 31 19:13:21 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA15524; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:13:20 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199711010213.TAA15524@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: >64MB To: jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org (Jamil J. Weatherbee) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:13:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jamil J. Weatherbee" at Oct 31, 97 05:11:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Why does the bootloader only report 64MB if you have >64MB > you know right above the boot: prompt? It reports what the BIOS tells it to report. It reports less because the BIOS lies. The value "right abouve the boot: prompt" is printed by the BIOS (strange how it doesn't lie to itself ;-)). Work on calling BIOS calls via VM86(). Get that working, and dozens of people will be happy to correct the problem for you. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 18:29:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22558 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:29:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22543 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:29:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 26053 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Nov 1997 02:30:12 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-100797 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: (Niall Smart) Subject: RE: Distributed systems/processing using FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Niall Smart; On 31-Oct-97 you wrote: > Hi, > > I was wondering if anyone had any pointers to information or comments > on using FreeBSD as the base operating system on which to build some > infrastructure useful in distributed systems/processing. > > I am currently looking at a number of projects for my final year project > in college, and should be deciding on one soon. Two of them really > belong in an operating system kernel and therefore hopefully merit some > discussion here: > > - distributed filesystem; a high performance (intelligent caching and > replication of data), secure (authentication and encryption), > heterogenous and hopefully relatively lightweight distributed > filesystem with conventional filesystem semantics (distributed > locking) > (By lightweight I mean that it should be easy to setup and use, > hopefully as straightforward as plain old NFS) > > - a library of useful communication primitives for distributed parallel > processing, e.g. distributed shared memory, distributed semaphores > > Also, if anyone else is working on similar areas or would like to do > some stress/beta testing I'd be interested in hearing from them too. > > Yours sincerely, > > Niall Smart I am working on some of these issues. Please contact me directly if you are interested. We are building a distributed, Fault Tolerant transaction processor using RDBMS and FreeBSD, integrated. --- If Microsoft Built Cars: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car. Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 18:29:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22571 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:29:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22542 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:29:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 26046 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Nov 1997 02:30:12 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-100797 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199710312143.QAA25551@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: "John S. Dyson" Subject: Re: Memory VS. Performance under FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, (Jamil J. Weatherbee) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi "John S. Dyson"; On 31-Oct-97 you wrote: > Jamil J. Weatherbee said: > > > > Does anybody have any statistics on memory vs. performance as you go to > > large memory configurations (>64MB), also what is the biggest RAM > > configuration possible on a FreeBSD machine? > > > > Kind of something like: > > > > > > RAM for x USERS for x MEAN PROCESSES vs x DISK ACCESS > > > Can't answer that specific question. However, there is kind of a design > "idea" that it should work with 3GB of RAM. That would require > significant > kernel tuning, because few of us have any experience with machines that > large. > > We have avoided or fixed terrible algorithms like O(n^2,3,4) stuff. We > still have > stuff that can be improved, but we are making continual progress. Old, old yardsticks for timeshare and RDBMS (very arguable) 64k per char mode user 1MB per X user 1MB per xterm screen 1MB per seat for RDBMS engine 1MB per MIPS There are not necessarily cumulative, but are definitely speculative :-) --- If Microsoft Built Cars: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car. Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 18:29:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA22592 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22547 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:29:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 26051 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Nov 1997 02:30:12 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-100797 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Tom Subject: Re: Password file builds Cc: "Bryn Wm. Moslow" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Dave Chapeskie Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Tom; On 31-Oct-97 you wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Dave Chapeskie wrote: > > ... > > I think that if done properly the above changes should be incorporated > > into FreeBSD and the text password files made optional. Ie, on a small > > system like my home system leave things as they are but allow for ISPs > > and the like to do away with the text versions. > > The biggest problem with this is, that there are no tools to fix or > verify db files. If the /etc/pwd.db or /etc/spwd.db becomes damaged, > you're screwed. Same thing if the filesystem gets corrupted. Both are a complex, not easily human-readable structures that contain complex data. A file system, in this view is a simple, single-indexed heirarchial database (almost network, but not quite). In well written software, the risk is similar, except that a db file is sompler to backup. > Also, there are locking issue with in place updates of db files. Do > the > pw routines in libc even do locking? I don't think so. What happens if > someone calls getpwnam() at the while someone else is writing a new > entry > into the database? Bang, you're dead. Now, these are legitimate concerns. BTW, is the passwd db using B trees or hash, or what? I am not sure that one would not want to switch indexing method based on anticipated size. Another approach to maintenance of these large files, is to use the database and in-line with it, dump all deltas to a log file. Since the log is always sequential, always appending, its impact on perfrormance should be minimal. A simple utility can roll the log forward and restore a corrupt database very rapidly (been there, done that :-) --- If Microsoft Built Cars: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car. Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 19:01:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24052 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:01:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from metronet.com (pgilley@fohnix.metronet.com [192.245.137.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA24047 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:00:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pgilley@metronet.com) Received: from localhost by metronet.com with SMTP id AA14362 (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for ); Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:01:41 -0600 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:01:40 -0600 (CST) From: Phil Gilley To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Doug White Subject: Problem with ed driver in 2.2.5 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a 486/66 with an SMC EtherCard PLUS Elite 16 (SMC WD8013EPC). It worked flawlessly with 2.1.7.1-RELEASE and 2.2.2-RELEASE. When I tried to do an FTP install of 2.2.5-RELEASE I kept getting machine lockups after the installer logged in and starting downloading the first tar file. Following a suggestion from Doug White on -questions I was able to get 2.2.5 installed by using the 2.2.2 boot floppy. I was then able to take a look at if_ed.c to see what was causing the problem. It seems sometime after 2.2.2 a change was made to turn on the 0 wait state option on 16 bit cards. This is what's causing the lockup with my particular card. If I remove the "| ED_WD_LAAR_0WS16" from line 744 then all is well. Does this point to a deficiency in the ed driver or my hardware? Thanks, Phil Gilley pgilley@metronet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 19:42:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26291 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:42:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA26281 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:41:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xRUP9-0002xo-00; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:39:19 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:39:04 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Simon Shapiro cc: "Bryn Wm. Moslow" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dave Chapeskie Subject: Re: Password file builds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Simon Shapiro wrote: ... > > The biggest problem with this is, that there are no tools to fix or > > verify db files. If the /etc/pwd.db or /etc/spwd.db becomes damaged, > > you're screwed. > > Same thing if the filesystem gets corrupted. Both are a complex, not > easily human-readable structures that contain complex data. A file system, > in this view is a simple, single-indexed heirarchial database (almost > network, but not quite). In well written software, the risk is similar, > except that a db file is sompler to backup. True, but filesystems have "fsck". We don't have a "dbck". I wish there was one. > > Also, there are locking issue with in place updates of db files. Do > > the > > pw routines in libc even do locking? I don't think so. What happens if > > someone calls getpwnam() at the while someone else is writing a new > > entry > > into the database? Bang, you're dead. > > Now, these are legitimate concerns. Yes, the old rebuild and rename process is atomic, safe, and easy to implement, but slow. > Sincerely Yours, > > Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom > Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 > Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 > > Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 19:48:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26618 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:48:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA26605 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:48:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xRUW7-0002xz-00; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:46:31 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:46:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: "Swanson, Toby J." cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'toby@milkyway.org'" Subject: Re: NIS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Swanson, Toby J. wrote: > I am running 2.1.7 on a 486-33MHz host named scar. I am attempting > to use NIS to authenticate logins on this machine. Everything starts > up without any error messages, but only local login ids and passwords > are accepted at a login prompt. I have added the '+' entries to > /etc/passwd, /etc/group and /etc/aliases and have uncommented the NIS You mean /etc/master.passwd right? /etc/passwd is only decorative on FreeBSD systems (and all BSD 4.4 systems). > entry in /etc/host.conf. I start ypbind successfully, then ypwhich > shows I am bound to the master server in my domain named gie (a Sun > Ultra Enterprise 4000 running Solaris 2.5.1). When I run 'ypwhich > scar' on the server I get an error message of "ypwhich: can't call > ypbind on scar: RPC: program/version mismatch; low version = 2, high > version = 2". Running 'ypwhich -V2 scar' returns gie. Are you running NIS+ or NIS on the NIS master? FreeBSD does not support NIS+. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 19:57:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA27131 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:57:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA27105 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:57:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00788; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:23:46 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711010353.OAA00788@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: elh@svic.com Subject: Re: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 16:40:21 -0800." <199711010040.QAA25276@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 14:23:44 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The problem with this is that the memory is already sized before > 'userconfig' is called (it needs to be that way for various reasons). This > basically means that we can't limit the memory during an install. You'll > have to physically pull out some of the memory and/or replace it with > lower density SIMMs until you've finished the installation and built a > customized kernel. It's often easier to pull the *disk* from the machine, and do the install and configuration alterations on another (smaller) system. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 20:10:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27607 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27596 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:10:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00828; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:36:35 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711010406.OAA00828@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org (Jamil J. Weatherbee), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: BIOS information preservation (was Re: >64MB) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 02:13:20 -0000." <199711010213.TAA15524@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 14:36:34 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Work on calling BIOS calls via VM86(). Get that working, and > dozens of people will be happy to correct the problem for you. I'm doing that today (but screwed because I'm out of paper and *&^%*&^ Micorosoft post Word documents and pretend that they're RTF, so I can't *read* the suckers). (*) Anyone likely to complain if I add a new datastructure to i386/bios.c and start populating it with stuff that various parts of the system glean about the BIOS environment? Or should I be using a procedural lookup interface for this? eg. either: foo = i386biosinfo->bios_memsize; or error = i386biosinfo("memsize", &foo) ?? mike * Terry, I believe you mentioned that some Microsoft Developer package contained sources for the Word Viewer, or something similar. Would there be any chance of crossing this with a Win32-on-unix environment like that from Willows or Bristol to get a FreeBSD Word Viewer? I'm sick beyond belief of having to find a copy of Word and 2-300 sheets of paper just to read these banal "standard" documents. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 20:19:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28256 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:19:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ymris.ddm.on.ca (cisco17-47.cas.golden.net [207.216.119.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28245 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:18:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dchapes@golden.net) Received: from squigy.ddm.on.ca (squigy.ddm.on.ca [209.47.139.138]) by ymris.ddm.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21598 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:15:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from dchapes@localhost) by squigy.ddm.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27850; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:15:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971031231549.15334@golden.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:15:49 -0500 From: Dave Chapeskie To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Password file builds References: <19971031042509.23697@golden.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 09:22:31AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 09:22:31AM -0800, Tom wrote: > The biggest problem with this is, that there are no tools to fix or > verify db files. If the /etc/pwd.db or /etc/spwd.db becomes damaged, > you're screwed. So you regenerate the text version periodicly (if required) from cron and you keep backups of the database and text versions. You do keep backups don't you? > Also, there are locking issue with in place updates of db files. > Do the pw routines in libc even do locking? I don't think so. What > happens if someone calls getpwnam() at the while someone else is > writing a new entry into the database? The man page for pwd_mkdb clearly states that it leaves locking up to the front-ends (chpass, passwd, vipw). That locking would still be maintained, just the text file wouldn't be updated. -- Dave Chapeskie, DDM Consulting E-Mail: dchapes@golden.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 20:40:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29629 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:40:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29612 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:40:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00937; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:06:02 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711010436.PAA00937@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Looking for ways to do serial datalogging on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:14:12 CDT." <199710311914.OAA07431@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 15:06:01 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If I wanted to use a serial port as a datalogging input port on FreeBSD, > from, for example a small outboard box emitting lines of data at 300 baud > continuously, what might be good ways to do that? What format is the data in? > Ideally, I would like to have a script or a small program running that > would poll the system clock, poll the port for a line of data at hourly > intervals, write that line to a logfile, then sit until the next hour, > and repeat, over the course of several weeks or months. You would use a cron job for this; it takes care of the scheduling for you. Then, assuming you've configured the port appropriately in /etc/rc.serial, something like this: #!/bin/sh # # Read a line of data from the logger, write (stamped) to the logfile # read line /wherever/logfile as the script called by cron would be all that you required. > In another direction, could one of the generic data acquisition boards > be used to do this, instead. I have heard that that is not always > easy to do on a unix box. I think this would be pretty gross overkill, unless you were aiming to replace the stripchart recorder. Talking to low-speed AD hardware is easy stuff. > Any pointers, resource-persons, etc., are appreciated. I am sure lots > of folks have done this type of thing before, right? Yup. 8) mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 20:57:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00450 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bugs.us.dell.com (bugs.us.dell.com [143.166.169.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA00442; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 20:56:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Received: from ant.us.dell.com (ant.us.dell.com [143.166.12.34]) by bugs.us.dell.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA06352; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:54:39 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971031225437.006d6490@bugs.us.dell.com> X-Sender: tony@bugs.us.dell.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:54:37 -0600 To: dg@root.com, "John S. Dyson" From: Tony Overfield Subject: Re: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines Cc: bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@svic.com In-Reply-To: <199711010040.QAA25276@implode.root.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:40 PM 10/31/97 -0800, David Greenman wrote: >You'll >have to physically pull out some of the memory and/or replace it with >lower density SIMMs until you've finished the installation and built a >customized kernel. Can the kernel know (or calculate) the maximum amount of memory it can use without crashing? If so, it could refuse to register memory greater than that amount. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 21:07:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00911 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:07:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA00890 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:07:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 9611 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Nov 1997 05:07:29 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-103097 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199711010406.OAA00828@word.smith.net.au> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:07:29 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Mike Smith Subject: RE: BIOS information preservation (was Re: >64MB) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, (Jamil J. Weatherbee) , Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Mike Smith; On 01-Nov-97 you wrote: > > Work on calling BIOS calls via VM86(). Get that working, and > > dozens of people will be happy to correct the problem for you. > > I'm doing that today (but screwed because I'm out of paper and *&^%*&^ > Micorosoft post Word documents and pretend that they're RTF, so I can't > *read* the suckers). (*) > > Anyone likely to complain if I add a new datastructure to i386/bios.c > and > start populating it with stuff that various parts of the system glean > about the BIOS environment? Or should I be using a procedural lookup > interface for this? > > eg. either: > > foo = i386biosinfo->bios_memsize; > > or > > error = i386biosinfo("memsize", &foo) Either way, I'd love it. I need such facility BADLY. > * Terry, I believe you mentioned that some Microsoft Developer package > contained sources for the Word Viewer, or something similar. Would > there be any chance of crossing this with a Win32-on-unix environment > like that from Willows or Bristol to get a FreeBSD Word Viewer? I'm > sick beyond belief of having to find a copy of Word and 2-300 sheets > of paper just to read these banal "standard" documents. I'dd love that too! All our corporate mail is on M$ Worst... Yuck! > --- If Microsoft Built Cars: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car. Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 21:22:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01604 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:22:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (root@coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01594 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:22:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) Received: from localhost (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.8.5/3.6Wbeta6) with ESMTP id OAA00811; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:21:44 +0900 (JST) To: Mike Smith cc: Terry Lambert , jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org (Jamil J. Weatherbee), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: mike's message of Sat, 01 Nov 1997 14:36:34 +1030. <199711010406.OAA00828@word.smith.net.au> X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: BIOS information preservation (was Re: >64MB) From: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 14:21:44 +0900 Message-ID: <807.878361704@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Anyone likely to complain if I add a new datastructure to i386/bios.c and >start populating it with stuff that various parts of the system glean >about the BIOS environment? Or should I be using a procedural lookup >interface for this? >eg. either: > foo = i386biosinfo->bios_memsize; >or > error = i386biosinfo("memsize", &foo) >?? (this mail does not talk about whether we will have this feature, or not...) I like the prior one better since the spelling mistake can be found by the compiler. In the latter case spelling mistake like i386biosinfo("memsizee", &foo) can be detected only in runtime. itojun From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 21:28:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01899 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:28:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from bugs.us.dell.com (bugs.us.dell.com [143.166.169.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA01885 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:28:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tony@dell.com) Received: from ant.us.dell.com (ant.us.dell.com [143.166.12.34]) by bugs.us.dell.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA06418; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:26:23 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971031232621.007008f8@bugs.us.dell.com> X-Sender: tony@bugs.us.dell.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:26:21 -0600 To: Terry Lambert , jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org (Jamil J. Weatherbee) From: Tony Overfield Subject: Re: >64MB Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199711010213.TAA15524@usr08.primenet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:13 AM 11/1/97 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> Why does the bootloader only report 64MB if you have >64MB >> you know right above the boot: prompt? > >It reports what the BIOS tells it to report. > >It reports less because the BIOS lies. That's not right. I'd like to see your patches to make the BIOS honest. FreeBSD simply makes the wrong BIOS call. The particular BIOS call made by the boot loader is limited to 16 bits worth of Kilobytes. To make matters worse, the kernel eventually ignores that answer in preference to the lower 16 bits of the actual value stored in CMOS, which is never better and often worse, as it truncates the most significant bits. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 22:14:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03346 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from srv.net (snake.srv.net [199.104.81.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03329; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:14:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmott@srv.net) Received: from darkstar.home (ras591.srv.net [205.180.127.91]) by srv.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA18780; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:14:24 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:13:51 -0700 (MST) From: Charles Mott X-Sender: cmott@darkstar.home To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Booting off PCMCIA Flash EEProm Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What is the possibility of getting a PC (either a laptop or conventional chassis) to boot off of a PCMCIA card? The first problem that is apparent is that the rom bios looks to a conventional hard drive or floppy for the boot record. How feasible is it to hack a bios, or are there new bios implementations which will boot off of an flash ATA virtual hard drive? This business of getting PCs away from moving media mechanical drives for embedded applications seems increasingly important. Charles Mott From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 22:31:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03787 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:31:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03779 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:30:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id RAA03824; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:30:31 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19971101173031.65071@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:30:31 +1100 From: David Dawes To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: svgalib? References: <199710290633.RAA21328@holly.rd.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199710290633.RAA21328@holly.rd.net>; from Daniel J. O'Connor on Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 05:03:47PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just have a few comments about some of the things that were mentioned in this thread. spork wrote: >Personally, I think it has alot to do with whether or not the user has the >full array of documentation for all their video hardware. I found it easy >with all the books in front of me, but if you don't know the max refresh >on your monitor, or you have an unknown video card in the system, >questions about your "dot clock", etc. seem rather daunting. How many modern video cards require you know about "dot clocks"? In most cases, you run XF86Setup and pick your card out of the list. Sure, there are plenty of cases where it isn't as simple as that. The majority of these are either old hardware or very new (ie unsupported) hardware. In my experience on the XFree86 support list, a lot of people make things more complicated than necessary either because of past experience with (very) old XFree86 versions, or because they've been reading out of date or simply misleading documentation. If you have a modern card, you shouldn't need to know anything about "dot clocks". Amancio Hasty wrote: >The problem can still be contained by way of knowing the PCI ID of the >graphic card so at the very least XF86setup can limit the query to >a few cards if not just one. The monitor setup is a little easier to >manage by having a database of popular models and modes for the >VESA monitors. PCI cards are the easy ones (relatively speaking). If we could simply forget about all the ISA and VLB cards still out there, life would be a lot easier. However, even with PCI cards, knowing the PCI ID (including chip revision) isn't the end of the story. As you say though, it could be used to at least reduce the number of cards presented as options. As for monitors, XF86Setup provides a simple choice based on the resolution/refresh rate the monitor can do. Picking one of those options should be enough to get things going in most cases. If you have the specs in front of you, sure, you can choose to enter in the exact values. Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >... and I'm sure that the XFree86 folks would just love your help in >doing that in a fashion which works on a reasonable number of the >operating systems they support. :-) > >Otherwise, the chances of this actually happening are close to nil, I >suspect. We've been waiting for a more automatic setup tool for X for >literally years now, and if any improvements have been done it's been >primarily to make the manual setup process a bit more palatable, not >more automatic. Everyone agrees that it should be done, nobody writes >the code. :-( Yes, very true. The person who did the first cut of XF86Setup changed jobs shortly after that was done, and since then has had very little time to work on it. It has only been tweaked around the edges by others since then. Alex wrote: >Read if it works on Linux, they'll bite. ;-) Really? At least some of us who have some say in the directions of XFree86 don't use Linux (at least not by choice). From my point of view, it has to work on all the free ix86 BSD variants, Linux, and preferably also the major SVR4-based ix86 OSs. Something that is Linux-only won't get my support because it is useless to me. >What about SuperProbe? It appears to already do some PCI probing. Why not >attempt to extend it into some sort of autoconfigurator thingy. If it's PCI probing is easy. One of the original plans for SuperProbe was to use it to assist in Xserver configuration. It was originally written in the pre-PCI days, and it became clear then that it couldn't reliably detect the hardware available at the time without often serious side-effects (take a look at the man page for SuperProbe and read about some of its command line options). >gpl'd one could hack together some source, otherwise I'm sure it would be >farily easy to grep and sed your way through the output of that to >automagically set everything up. You're lucky the original author of SuperProbe isn't reading this :-). It is most definitely not GPL'd (there is no GPL'd source in XFree86, and there likely never will be). The XFree86 copyright is similar in style to the BSD copyrights. Snob Art Genre wrote: >My video card setup was a breeze, but I never did get my mouse working as >a PS/2 . . . probably because I had a spare serial port and a serial >adapter for the mouse (a Logitech MouseMan, and a very nice mouse indeed), >and so I took the easy way out. I have such a mouse, and it works fine as a PS/2 mouse (I need all the serial ports for other uses). All I did was set the appropriate jumper on my motherboard to enable the mouse port, build a kernel with psm included, and set the protocol in the XF86Config to "PS/2". Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: >PS: I am currently working on mouse drivers and moused so that moused >and XFree86 will be identify appropriate mouse protocol automatically. This is something which should help a lot. >2. XF86Setup isn't good at handling mice. If you are using it to > configure XF86Config, do not touch your mouse until you have specified > everything about the mouse. (device: /dev/psm0, protocol: PS/2) > And do NOT change mouse settings again until you quit XF86Setup. This is particularly true for PS/2 mice. Finally, as for GGI, I'm going to keep an open mind on this until they have something to show. On the subject of XFree86-DGA, it was based very loosely on Sun's DGA, and it came about primarily from prompting by some people at Id, so that they could get reasonable performance from Doom/Quake on Linux/X. Development of XFree86-DGA and related things seems likely to continue, with added impetus from the group working on 3D/XGL support for XFree86. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 22:53:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA04491 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:53:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA04474 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:53:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 24223 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Nov 1997 06:53:33 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-103097 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:53:33 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Charles Mott Subject: RE: Booting off PCMCIA Flash EEProm Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Charles Mott; On 01-Nov-97 you wrote: > What is the possibility of getting a PC (either > a laptop or conventional chassis) to boot off of > a PCMCIA card? > > The first problem that is apparent is that the > rom bios looks to a conventional hard drive or > floppy for the boot record. How feasible is it > to hack a bios, or are there new bios implementations > which will boot off of an flash ATA virtual hard > drive? That is already available, from various vendors. Popular thing amoung industrial computers people (noise, dust, vibrations, corosives, you know... An EXPENSIVE source for these is ICS (Industrial Computer Source) form San Diego, CA. they have few which look like IDE drives, few that look like floppies, etc. If I remember right (wrote a couple of drivers...), most PCMCIA FLASH disks can be had either as memory or as IDE. Some are pretty clever about write operations, so flash ``wear'' is not as bad. --- If Microsoft Built Cars: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car. Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 31 23:27:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05317 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:27:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05227; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28863; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:24:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711010724.XAA28863@implode.root.com> To: Tony Overfield cc: bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, elh@svic.com Subject: Re: 2.2.5 installation bug on 1gig machines In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:54:37 CST." <3.0.3.32.19971031225437.006d6490@bugs.us.dell.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:24:48 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >At 04:40 PM 10/31/97 -0800, David Greenman wrote: >>You'll >>have to physically pull out some of the memory and/or replace it with >>lower density SIMMs until you've finished the installation and built a >>customized kernel. > >Can the kernel know (or calculate) the maximum amount of memory it can >use without crashing? If so, it could refuse to register memory greater >than that amount. Uh, well, the answer to this is that there is a bug in the kernel that is causing the problem. We didn't test kernel's with the BOUNCE_BUFFERS option on any large memory systems. Otherwise, how much memory a system has is not an issue with regard to the system crashing (resources allocated out of that memory can be a problem if tuned wrong, but that is a different issue). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 00:02:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06647 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:02:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06642 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:02:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28986; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:58:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711010758.XAA28986@implode.root.com> To: Phil Gilley cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug White Subject: Re: Problem with ed driver in 2.2.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 31 Oct 1997 21:01:40 CST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:58:57 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I have a 486/66 with an SMC EtherCard PLUS Elite 16 (SMC WD8013EPC). >It worked flawlessly with 2.1.7.1-RELEASE and 2.2.2-RELEASE. When I >tried to do an FTP install of 2.2.5-RELEASE I kept getting machine >lockups after the installer logged in and starting downloading the >first tar file. Following a suggestion from Doug White on -questions >I was able to get 2.2.5 installed by using the 2.2.2 boot floppy. I >was then able to take a look at if_ed.c to see what was causing the >problem. It seems sometime after 2.2.2 a change was made to turn on >the 0 wait state option on 16 bit cards. This is what's causing the >lockup with my particular card. If I remove the "| ED_WD_LAAR_0WS16" >from line 744 then all is well. Does this point to a deficiency in >the ed driver or my hardware? Hmmm. Not sure how to deal with this. The reason why 0WS was turned on was to 'fix' a serious ISA shared-memory performance problem that a lot of newer motherboards have - the 8K RAM cards are almost useless without it. It turned out to cause problems with reading the EEPROM on the '790 based cards, so I killed the option for those prior to the 2.2.5 release...I'm surprised to hear that you're having troubles with a '690 based board. It shouldn't be a problem on most systems - this might indicate that your ISA bus speed is set too fast. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 00:04:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06839 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06833 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00611; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:29:52 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711010759.SAA00611@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh cc: Mike Smith , Terry Lambert , jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org (Jamil J. Weatherbee), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BIOS information preservation (was Re: >64MB) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 14:21:44 +0900." <807.878361704@coconut.itojun.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 18:29:51 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >Anyone likely to complain if I add a new datastructure to i386/bios.c and > >start populating it with stuff that various parts of the system glean > >about the BIOS environment? Or should I be using a procedural lookup > >interface for this? > >eg. either: > > foo = i386biosinfo->bios_memsize; > >or > > error = i386biosinfo("memsize", &foo) > >?? ... > I like the prior one better since the spelling mistake can be > found by the compiler. In the latter case spelling mistake like > i386biosinfo("memsizee", &foo) can be detected only in runtime. Ok, so it takes the developer a few more minutes. OTOH, it means that things can be dynamically added without having to change the data structure. It's a little academic just at the moment, as the task I wanted it to solve doesn't appear to do what I wanted. I'll keep it on the back burner for next time though. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 00:14:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07254 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:14:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (root@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07245; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:14:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skafte@worldgate.com) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA10284; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:51:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19971101005141.20155@worldgate.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:51:41 -0700 From: Greg Skafte To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Multiport Ethernet Cards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Since ZNYX has delayed shipment of their 4port 10/100 nics, we are looking at alternatives. What are peoples experience with either the adaptec or the matrox multiport nics. or is there another nic that is getting rave reveiws, that I haven't mentioned. -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +403 413 1910 Fax: +403 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 00:18:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07525 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07513 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z14) with ESMTP id JAA08407; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:18:00 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id JAA00703; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:32:15 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971101093215.27334@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:32:15 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies To: dg@root.com Cc: "Guillermo A. Loyola" , Christoph Kukulies , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mmap/mlock problem References: <3455B267.FBC7DD67@epigram.com> <199710281036.CAA12019@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199710281036.CAA12019@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 02:36:27AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Oct 28, 1997 at 02:36:27AM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > >Worse yet, the interface for drivers to do it pmap_mapdev() > >claims to make the mapping non-cached in the comment, but the code > >does not seem to be doing it. The non-cached bits are defined in > >pmap.h: > > > >i386/include/pmap.h:75:#define PG_N (PG_NC_PWT|PG_NC_PCD) /* Non-cacheable */ > > > >but are only used in machdep.c when probing memory. > > > >Questions for FreeBSD hackers: > > > >1) Shouldn't the line that sets the ptes in pmap_mapdev read: > > *pte = pa | PG_RW | PG_N | PG_V; > > > > instead of > > *pte = pa | PG_RW | PG_V; > > ? > > > >2) WOuld it be reasonalbe to add a new flag to mmap to allow > > specification of uncached mappings? > > The code used to set the no-cache flags, but I changed it to do a normal > mapping after seeing relibility problems with certain memory mapped devices (I > suspect this was caused by PWT rather than PCD). The cachability is normally > determined by chipset settings and the page table flags are not needed to > disable it for non-RAM areas of the address space. When my BIOS doesn't have settings to make ISA memory regions unchacheable (I assume it's not the 'shadow ram' section of the chipset setup), can I be sure that the chipset does that for me? Or would adding the PG_N flag to the device mapping code assure this. I would not mind adding this in my special case if only I could get the memory region behave like it does under DOS. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 00:35:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08073 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:35:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gw.itfs.nsk.su (gw.itfs.nsk.su [193.124.36.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA08068 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:35:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from itfs!news!nnd%itfs.nsk.su@gw.itfs.nsk.su) Received: from itfs.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by gw.itfs.nsk.su (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id OAA18016 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:35:06 +0600 Received: by itfs.nsk.su; Sat, 1 Nov 97 14:34:49 +0600 (NSK) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by news.itfs.nsk.su (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA06442; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:23:23 +0600 (NSK) From: nnd@itfs.nsk.su To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cyclades :( Date: 1 Nov 1997 08:23:22 GMT Message-ID: <63eotq$37v@news.itfs.nsk.su> References: <199710300212.SAA01513@implode.root.com> <19971030102615.09637@grape.carrier.kiev.ua> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Alexander Litvin wrote: > On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 06:12:59PM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > > > > > >... Maybye you should let Cyclades do the drivers. They might work then. > > > > Jamil, this comment is without merit and does absolutely nothing to help > > with the problem. Cyclades is quite familiar with the driver in FreeBSD and > > has done extensive testing with both the ISA and PCI product under FreeBSD. > > They haven't seen any problems in their testing, but of course that doesn't > > mean that a problem doesn't exist. The device driver for the PCI version is > > the same driver that the ISA card uses, the only difference is that the PCI > > front-end memory-maps the registers into the address space at device attach > > time. There might be a hardware problem with the PCI interface that is causing > > the reboots, but at the moment, there is insufficient information to diagnose > > the problem further. I have not been able to reproduce the reboots here. I > > suspect that it is going to take a PCI bus analyzer to figure this one out. > Well, I forgot to say: reboots doesn't happen when you just plag in > Cyclades. All four boxes -- quite busy access servers, from 10 to > 15 dialup modems. > As for comment about using Cyclades for connecting serial terminals > -- I mentioned that reboots happen with "getty" and don't with > "mgetty", so callout devices are ok. > What ditails can I provide? That's not panics, I don't have crashdumps. > May be exact hardware configurations? If so -- I'll test it once again > and write exactly all hardware details. I can confirm that there IS the REAL problem with Cyclades Cyclom 16YeP and some number of MBoards and FreeBSD versions. My last test case was sufficiently simple - Cyclades Cyclom-16YeP card + one modem on any of 16 ports + FreeBSD-2.2-stable (of some september 1997 version) To crash (reboot) the system I must some ( ~10 ) times switch the power of the modem off/on quickly. After discussing this problem in some of Relcom's newsgroups I've received patched version of FreeBSD's 'cy' driver. Message's author (Andrey Ovodenko - ovod@dipt.donetsk.ua) says that they've successfully used this patched version wtih PCI Cyclades cards at least five month now. Driver's text inspection shows that there is ONLY ONE significant difference with 'standard FreeBSD's' cy-driver: (this is a 'diff -bu' result for /sys/i386/isa/cy.c version 1.55 of 1997/09/21) --- cy.c.ORIG Sat Nov 1 13:33:19 1997 +++ cy.c Sat Nov 1 13:36:55 1997 @@ -410,7 +404,7 @@ #endif static int cy_chip_offset[] = { - 0x0000, 0x0200, 0x0400, 0x0600, 0x0100, 0x0300, 0x0500, 0x0700, + 0x0000, 0x0400, 0x0800, 0x0c00, 0x0200, 0x0600, 0x0a00, 0x0e00 }; static int cy_nr_cd1400s[NCY]; static int cy_total_devices; Can someone with Cyclom-8/16YeP (and problems ;-) test this patch ? I myself can not test it because my only ONE Cyclom-16YeP now busily serves 12 modems on Linux box. Partial "correctnes proof" for this patch can be found in (working) Linux 'cy' (or 'cz') driver which uses the same chip_offset addresses as in "patched" driver, but not as in original FreeBSD's 'cy' driver. N.Dudorov From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 00:40:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08406 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:40:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA08401 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:40:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xRZ4m-00036w-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:38:36 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:38:35 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Password file builds Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Dave Chapeskie wrote: > On Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 09:22:31AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > The biggest problem with this is, that there are no tools to fix or > > verify db files. If the /etc/pwd.db or /etc/spwd.db becomes damaged, > > you're screwed. > > So you regenerate the text version periodicly (if required) from cron > and you keep backups of the database and text versions. You do keep > backups don't you? How would the text version be regenerated? In the scheme you described there would be no test version. > > Also, there are locking issue with in place updates of db files. > > Do the pw routines in libc even do locking? I don't think so. What > > happens if someone calls getpwnam() at the while someone else is > > writing a new entry into the database? > > The man page for pwd_mkdb clearly states that it leaves locking up to > the front-ends (chpass, passwd, vipw). That locking would still be > maintained, just the text file wouldn't be updated. Nope, you missed the point. The getpw* routines in libc do not do locking, because they don't need to. But if you do inplace updates, they do. rename() is atomic, but db put() is not. > -- > Dave Chapeskie, DDM Consulting > E-Mail: dchapes@ddm.on.ca Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 01:07:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09466 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:07:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09451; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:07:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA10612; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:07:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971101010707.25996@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:07:07 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Stefan Esser Cc: Chris Csanady , Chris Vance , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LKM Interface References: <19971030180558.63267@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199710310308.VAA01889@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> <19971030194044.15908@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <19971031184937.23539@mi.uni-koeln.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <19971031184937.23539@mi.uni-koeln.de>; from Stefan Esser on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 at 06:49:37PM +0100 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser scribbled this message on Oct 31: > On 1997-10-30 19:40 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > Wow.. I didn't realize that this was in current already. :) How do I > > > go about converting my PCI device driver to use it? Also, are there > > > > well.. basicly look at the definition of DECLARE_MODULE.. only problem > > is that I don't know if the pci bus code can rescan the bus for "new" > > drivers as they loaded... > > PCI LKM support has been in -current for quite some time (I > think I added it one year ago), but I temporarily removed it, > when I completely rewrote the PCI code. hmm... ok... > If you need it, it is easy to put back. The API was that the > PCI LKM just called > > pci_register_lkm(struct pci_device *p, int rev) > > with the parameter of the DATA_SET and rev=0. > > The rescan was automatically performed from within that LKM > registration function. so, did the pci_register_lkm do this? or was this another function that would do this? > Sorry, I'm in a hurry, now. If there is any need for PCI LKM > support, I may be able to put back that feature over the weekend. if you could, just send me the patches... I'll make sure that they work with the new system... > I also prepared a simple shell script that could be run from > /etc/rc and which searched for PCI devices that had no driver > compiled in, and tried to modload the corresponding driver > (actually used for one ATM card driver, so far). interesting... could you include that too? thanks.. ttyl.. -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 02:03:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11382 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:03:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from ymris.ddm.on.ca (cisco1-45.cas.golden.net [207.6.168.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11373 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:03:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dchapes@golden.net) Received: from squigy.ddm.on.ca (squigy.ddm.on.ca [209.47.139.138]) by ymris.ddm.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA24612 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:03:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from dchapes@localhost) by squigy.ddm.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA01245; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:03:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971101050308.10677@golden.net> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 05:03:08 -0500 From: Dave Chapeskie To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Password file builds References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: ; from Tom on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 12:38:35AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 12:38:35AM -0800, Tom wrote: > How would the text version be regenerated? In the scheme you described > there would be no test version. It would be regenerated from the database, it turns out that currently one of the indexes on the database is the line number from the text file. Re-read my original message, there I sugest running such a program from crontab to keep a complete or partial text version. Vipw would need to be modified to update the text version before editing. > Nope, you missed the point. The getpw* routines in libc do not do > locking, because they don't need to. But if you do inplace updates, they > do. rename() is atomic, but db put() is not. Ah, I see your point. You're right I missed this. It's something to pay attention to but it's not a major problem IMHO. Either do things the way "pwd_mkdb -u" currently does or use flock(2) on the database's file descriptor in the password routines in libc. -- Dave Chapeskie, DDM Consulting E-Mail: dchapes@golden.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 02:21:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA12062 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:21:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA12053 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 02:20:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 13197 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Nov 1997 10:20:51 +0000 (GMT) To: skafte@worldgate.com Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multiport Ethernet Cards In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:51:41 -0700" References: <19971101005141.20155@worldgate.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 11:20:51 +0100 Message-ID: <13195.878379651@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Since ZNYX has delayed shipment of their 4port 10/100 nics, > we are looking at alternatives. > > What are peoples experience with either the adaptec or the matrox > multiport nics. or is there another nic that is getting rave > reveiws, that I haven't mentioned. If two port NICs are an option for you, we have very good experience with the SMC 9332BDT (21140 based, of course). Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 06:11:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20240 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20232 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:11:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21599; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:11:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.6.9) id MAA02487; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:17:29 +0100 (CET) X-Face: " Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:17:29 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Chris Csanady , Chris Vance , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: LKM Interface References: <19971030180558.63267@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199710310308.VAA01889@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> <19971030194044.15908@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <19971031184937.23539@mi.uni-koeln.de> <19971101010707.25996@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19971101010707.25996@hydrogen.nike.efn.org>; from John-Mark Gurney on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 01:07:07AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 1997-11-01 01:07 -0800, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Stefan Esser scribbled this message on Oct 31: > > If you need it, it is easy to put back. The API was that the > > PCI LKM just called > > > > pci_register_lkm(struct pci_device *p, int rev) > > > > with the parameter of the DATA_SET and rev=0. > > > > The rescan was automatically performed from within that LKM > > registration function. > > so, did the pci_register_lkm do this? or was this another function > that would do this? The pci_regsister_lkm() function initiated the rescan. Only cards with no driver were looked at. > > Sorry, I'm in a hurry, now. If there is any need for PCI LKM > > support, I may be able to put back that feature over the weekend. > > if you could, just send me the patches... I'll make sure that they > work with the new system... You'll find everything in the last version of pci.c before my rewrite (rev. 1.60 did not have LKM support, and rev 1.64 is the last one where I made a change to the implementation, so you may want to look at a diff from 1.60 to 1.64). But that code relied on the probed PCI devices to be registered (was function pci_remember()), but I want to have a completely different data structure in the future (you already know that ...). > > I also prepared a simple shell script that could be run from > > /etc/rc and which searched for PCI devices that had no driver > > compiled in, and tried to modload the corresponding driver > > (actually used for one ATM card driver, so far). > > interesting... could you include that too? Sorry, but seems I did fail to make me understood in more than one sentence of the previous reply ... The Zeitnet ATM driver was written by "Jin Guojun[ITG]" and contains the PCI LKM as patches (relative to FreeBSD-2.2.0, I guess). Information is available from the Zeitnet web site, according to the author of the driver. Regards, STefan PS: I'll try to find time to reply top your previous mail regarding the data device structure later this weekend ... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 07:16:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA23105 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:16:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (Xtz2rLRStzhCeN8GnxdsDBM/MiKlwQcU@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23098 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([CKHIdwU7GQnCR9/4rXHyksYg/G+r7E28]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xRfHL-0007mV-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:15:59 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xRfGy-0003jZ-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:15:36 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:15:36 +0000 In-Reply-To: Brandon Gillespie "Suggested addition to /etc/security" (Oct 30, 10:18am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 30, 10:18am, Brandon Gillespie wrote: } Subject: Suggested addition to /etc/security > I'm not sure if /etc/security is a good place for it, but I think it would > be a good idea to add this check (at least once a week) to somewhere: > > ------------------------------------------------- > echo "checking for invalid user or group ids:" > > find / -nouser -nogroup > ------------------------------------------------- Shouldn't this be "find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print"? Niall From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 07:41:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA24057 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:41:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from teel.info-noire.com (slpp-17.interlinx.qc.ca [207.134.144.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA24047 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:40:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@teel.info-noire.com) Received: from localhost (alex@localhost) by teel.info-noire.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA16412; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:53:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:53:05 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Boisvert Reply-To: Alex Boisvert To: Niall Smart cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Distributed systems/processing using FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I was wondering if anyone had any pointers to information or comments > on using FreeBSD as the base operating system on which to build some > infrastructure useful in distributed systems/processing. I don't have FreeBSD-specific pointers but you might have a look at the Coda Project. It's a distributed filesystem (caching and all) based on AFS (Andrew File System). They have developped many interesting distributed computing modules: enhanced RPC, shared memory, ... Search the web for: +coda +filesystem +distributed Alex. --- FreeBSD: Decouvrez la puissance de votre PC! www.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 07:46:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA24247 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:46:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from tolstoy.mpd.ca (mpd.ca [206.123.11.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA24227 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:46:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wlloyd@mpd.ca) Received: from plato (plato.mpd.ca [206.123.11.34]) by tolstoy.mpd.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA17726; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:44:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <345B4E6D.6224@mpd.ca> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 10:44:45 -0500 From: Bill Lloyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Looking for ways to do serial datalogging on FreeBSD References: <199710311914.OAA07431@seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote: > > If I wanted to use a serial port as a datalogging input port on FreeBSD, > from, for example a small outboard box emitting lines of data at 300 baud > continuously, what might be good ways to do that? > > Ideally, I would like to have a script or a small program running that > would poll the system clock, poll the port for a line of data at hourly > intervals, write that line to a logfile, then sit until the next hour, You should investigate It allows logging of serial ports (as many as you want). The package is for remote tty. Here is a snip from the README --------- Rtty is "remote tty" (not radioteletype). You run a server per port and then connect to that server from any number of "tip"/"cu"-like clients. I wrote it for our console concentrator, but there's no reason other than performance why you couldn't use it to drive modems, printers, prom programmers, and so on. ... Details The server can be told to keep a log file. This log file will record all data in or out of the tty port; that is, data that comes from the tty port will be logged, and data that is typed at (and therefore sent to) the tty port from any client will be logged. There are no special markers in the log file to tell you which data came from which source; the data is all just interleaved in the order it was received by the server. Note that line terminators in the log file will be "physical" meaning probably \r\n rather than the normal UNIX \n. It depends on the device on the other end of the tty port, but \r\n is pretty common. We watch our log files with daemons that do roughly what "tail -f" does except they scan for things like "file table full" or "out of inodes" or "panic" -- you know, things that computers say when they are unhappy. None of our scanning software is included in this release of rtty, but you can write your own. Note that the protocol used between the server and client is mostly implemented in a separate module of this source directory; if you want to connect to the server in real time and scan the output direcly instead of tailing the log file, that's an option. (You would most especially want to do it this way if you aren't using any log files.) ------- -bill -- William Lloyd (wlloyd@mpd.ca) | From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 08:52:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26899 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:52:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26894 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:52:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03064; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:53:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711011653.IAA03064@implode.root.com> To: nnd@itfs.nsk.su cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cyclades :( In-reply-to: Your message of "01 Nov 1997 08:23:22 GMT." <63eotq$37v@news.itfs.nsk.su> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 08:53:14 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Driver's text inspection shows that there is ONLY ONE >significant difference with 'standard FreeBSD's' cy-driver: >(this is a 'diff -bu' result for /sys/i386/isa/cy.c version >1.55 of 1997/09/21) > >--- cy.c.ORIG Sat Nov 1 13:33:19 1997 >+++ cy.c Sat Nov 1 13:36:55 1997 >@@ -410,7 +404,7 @@ > #endif > > static int cy_chip_offset[] = { >- 0x0000, 0x0200, 0x0400, 0x0600, 0x0100, 0x0300, 0x0500, 0x0700, >+ 0x0000, 0x0400, 0x0800, 0x0c00, 0x0200, 0x0600, 0x0a00, 0x0e00 > }; > static int cy_nr_cd1400s[NCY]; > static int cy_total_devices; > > > Can someone with Cyclom-8/16YeP (and problems ;-) >test this patch ? I myself can not test it because my only ONE >Cyclom-16YeP now busily serves 12 modems on Linux box. > > Partial "correctnes proof" for this patch can be found >in (working) Linux 'cy' (or 'cz') driver which uses the same >chip_offset addresses as in "patched" driver, but not as in >original FreeBSD's 'cy' driver. If you look at the cy_inb/cy_outb functions in cyreg.h, you'll see that the offset is adjusted (shifted left by one bit) for the PCI card, making the appropriate adjustment. The above change (which has the left shift built in to the numbers) would effectively double this shift. What I'm saying is that unless I'm really missing something, the patch can't be correct. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 09:12:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27536 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:12:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from concepts.nl (concepts.nl [194.134.0.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA27531 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:12:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ahurx@concepts.nl) Received: from PC_ahurx.concepts.nl (bergen02.pstn04.concepts.nl [194.134.48.136]) by concepts.nl (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA20404 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:14:55 +0100 Message-ID: Priority: Normal To: hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "R." Hurx Subject: Hardware question Date: Sat, 01 Nov 97 19:09:35 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there, I'm Remy Hurx, C++ programmer in my spare time. I had one question: I bought FreeBSD 2.0, and I tried to install it, but I get this hardware conflict: wd1: Can't handle 64 heads from partition table (Controller value 16 stored) Help!! How can I restore this???? With kind regards, Remy Hurx ahurx@concepts.nl From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 09:59:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29023 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:59:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from roguetrader.com (cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29018 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:59:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@roguetrader.com) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by roguetrader.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA12033; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:58:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:58:32 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: Niall Smart cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, Niall Smart wrote: > On Oct 30, 10:18am, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > } Subject: Suggested addition to /etc/security > > I'm not sure if /etc/security is a good place for it, but I think it would > > be a good idea to add this check (at least once a week) to somewhere: > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > echo "checking for invalid user or group ids:" > > > > find / -nouser -nogroup > > ------------------------------------------------- > > Shouldn't this be "find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print"? Yeah, or even better: files=`find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print` ls -ldF $files (this looks better than find / -nouser -o -nogroup -exec ls -ldF {} \;) On the same note, what about adding a few checks of the syslog for things. I'm not sure if /etc/security is the right place for that or not. I know that 'newsyslog' has a note about adding that sortof functionality, but.. ? Just a simple: fgrep 'BAD SU' /var/log/messages Would suffice for su--the same could go for X failed login attempts on other ports, etc. We could get more complex and open rotated logfiles we havn't checked yet (and note the last logfile to be checked--including the dates). Is there interest in this, or is something better being worked on? I could easilly cruft up /etc/security, if there is interest, and I wont be duplicating any work.. -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 10:04:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29367 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (nylQ6pAuGuNCW6d9asCOEOAenfnN19XE@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29358 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:04:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([V6zVqmTgy6BDOKWWxUaapFsl/ff+63lp]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xRhux-0000K9-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:05:03 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xRhuZ-0004BT-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:04:39 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:04:39 +0000 In-Reply-To: Brandon Gillespie "Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security" (Nov 1, 10:58am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Brandon Gillespie , Niall Smart Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 1, 10:58am, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > > find / -nouser -nogroup > > Shouldn't this be "find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print"? > Yeah, or even better: > > files=`find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print` > ls -ldF $files > > (this looks better than find / -nouser -o -nogroup -exec ls -ldF {} \;) Looks better? They should produce identical output. "find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print | xargs -n 30" is more efficient btw :)) however using -exec with find is othe only one that works with filenames with embedded spaces. Niall , From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 10:11:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29731 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:11:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from roguetrader.com (brandon@cold.org [206.81.134.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29726 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:11:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brandon@roguetrader.com) Received: from localhost (brandon@localhost) by roguetrader.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA12146; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:11:38 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:11:37 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: Niall Smart cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, Niall Smart wrote: > On Nov 1, 10:58am, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > > > find / -nouser -nogroup > > > Shouldn't this be "find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print"? > > Yeah, or even better: > > > > files=`find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print` > > ls -ldF $files > > > > (this looks better than find / -nouser -o -nogroup -exec ls -ldF {} \;) > > Looks better? They should produce identical output. "find / -nouser -o > -nogroup -print | xargs -n 30" is more efficient btw :)) however > using -exec with find is othe only one that works with filenames with > embedded spaces. No, it does not look the same. 'ls' will columnize the output to fit every file its listing--but it will vary the column widths for each execution. Thus, calling 'ls' on all files at once looks better than calling it seperately for each file involved. Yeah, its completely cosmetic, but its also easier to read. xargs is also undesired because it would still do the same as -exec, that being calling ls seperately for each file... Compare: crw-rw---- 1 uucp 68 28, 195 Jul 23 20:24 /dev/cuala3 crw------- 1 uucp 68 52, 0 Jul 23 20:24 /dev/tun0 -r-sr-sr-x 1 uucp 68 110592 May 20 04:31 /usr/bin/cu* -r-sr-sr-x 1 uucp 68 86016 May 20 04:31 /usr/bin/uustat* -r-sr-sr-x 1 uucp 68 196608 May 20 04:31 /usr/libexec/uucp/uucico* drwxrwxr-x 2 bin 6 512 Oct 31 10:27 /var/mail/ drwxrwxr-x 2 uucp 68 512 May 20 04:28 /var/spool/lock/ vs: crw-rw---- 1 uucp 68 28, 195 Jul 23 20:24 /dev/cuala3 crw------- 1 uucp 68 52, 0 Jul 23 20:24 /dev/tun0 -r-sr-sr-x 1 uucp 68 110592 May 20 04:31 /usr/bin/cu* -r-sr-sr-x 1 uucp 68 86016 May 20 04:31 /usr/bin/uustat* -r-sr-sr-x 1 uucp 68 196608 May 20 04:31 /usr/libexec/uucp/uucico* drwxrwxr-x 2 bin 6 512 Oct 31 10:27 /var/mail/ drwxrwxr-x 2 uucp 68 512 May 20 04:28 /var/spool/lock/ The first is listing all files at once, where the latter is listing them seperately. The data is the same, but what is easier to read? -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 10:28:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00723 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:28:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (wNVPHrQHPsFC7rzqQyy2F+dfENNOjuWl@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA00718 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:28:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.33.67] ([sg08ltvdpmRF8uaXOA1UdnIovPX2oFXy]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xRiI7-0000Nm-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:28:59 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak67.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0xRiHi-0004IG-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:28:34 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:28:34 +0000 In-Reply-To: Brandon Gillespie "Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security" (Nov 1, 11:11am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Brandon Gillespie , Niall Smart Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 1, 11:11am, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > > > > find / -nouser -nogroup > > > > Shouldn't this be "find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print"? > > > Yeah, or even better: > > > > > > files=`find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print` > > > ls -ldF $files > > > > > > (this looks better than find / -nouser -o -nogroup -exec ls -ldF {} \;) > > > > Looks better? They should produce identical output. "find / -nouser -o > > -nogroup -print | xargs -n 30" is more efficient btw :)) however > > using -exec with find is othe only one that works with filenames with > > embedded spaces. > > No, it does not look the same. 'ls' will columnize the output to fit > every file its listing--but it will vary the column widths for each > execution. Ahh yes, I had not run it over enough files to see more than one execution of ls. Of course, you could pipe it through awk to format the columns if presentation and speed of execution were important :) Given that the number of files without a group or user is probably going to be small the original way which you suggested, with the addition of the '-o' argument to find seems best now. Niall From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 10:42:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01385 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01377 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:42:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z14) with ESMTP id TAA11815 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:41:58 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id TAA01870 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:56:24 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:56:24 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199711011856.TAA01870@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: still mmap and my driver Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Things are still weird with my driver ISA memory mapping. I noticed that the space I need to map is 16386 bytes from C8000 on. I changed isa_device id->id_msize to have 16386. And I have an iosiz 0x4000 in my config file now. I still get a kernel panic, when I access 0xca000 in the driver. Did I still overlook anything? -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 10:43:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01516 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01510; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:43:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys.etinc.com (dbsys.etinc.com [204.141.95.138]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA02330; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:44:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971101134418.00acec90@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 13:44:19 -0500 To: sthaug@nethelp.no, skafte@worldgate.com From: dennis Subject: Re: Multiport Ethernet Cards Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:20 AM 11/1/97 +0100, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: >> Since ZNYX has delayed shipment of their 4port 10/100 nics, >> we are looking at alternatives. >> >> What are peoples experience with either the adaptec or the matrox >> multiport nics. or is there another nic that is getting rave >> reveiws, that I haven't mentioned. > >If two port NICs are an option for you, we have very good experience >with the SMC 9332BDT (21140 based, of course). Anyone have a US price for these? Are they still much more that twice the single port cards? Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 11:57:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA04510 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:57:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04493; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:57:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skafte@worldgate.com) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA14581; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:56:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19971101125624.28439@worldgate.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:56:24 -0700 From: Greg Skafte To: dennis Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multiport Ethernet Cards References: <3.0.32.19971101134418.00acec90@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971101134418.00acec90@etinc.com>; from dennis on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 01:44:19PM -0500 Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Quoting dennis (dennis@etinc.com) On Subject: Re: Multiport Ethernet Cards Date: Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 01:44:19PM -0500 > At 11:20 AM 11/1/97 +0100, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > >> Since ZNYX has delayed shipment of their 4port 10/100 nics, > >> we are looking at alternatives. > >> > >> What are peoples experience with either the adaptec or the matrox > >> multiport nics. or is there another nic that is getting rave > >> reveiws, that I haven't mentioned. > > > >If two port NICs are an option for you, we have very good experience > >with the SMC 9332BDT (21140 based, of course). > > Anyone have a US price for these? Are they still much more that > twice the single port cards? the quad cards are ~ $250 (canadian) per port but this is still cheaper than gettting a 16 port passive PCI back plane computer and using single nics. (~425 per port canadian ) and a lot cheaper than a 8 or 12 port cisco. > > Dennis -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +403 413 1910 Fax: +403 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 11:59:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA04590 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:59:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04584 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:59:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from panke.panke.de (anonymous233.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.233]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.8.6/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07262; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:44:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by panke.panke.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA01578; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:07:37 +0100 (MET) To: Brandon Gillespie Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security References: From: Wolfram Schneider Date: 01 Nov 1997 19:07:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: Brandon Gillespie's message of Thu, 30 Oct 1997 10:18:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: Lines: 35 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Done. -Wolfram wosch 1997/11/01 07:03:06 PST Modified files: etc/periodic/weekly Makefile Added files: etc/periodic/weekly 340.noid Log: Check for files belongs to an unknown user or unknown group. Do not run by default. Brandon Gillespie writes: > I'm not sure if /etc/security is a good place for it, but I think it would > be a good idea to add this check (at least once a week) to somewhere: > > ------------------------------------------------- > echo "checking for invalid user or group ids:" > > find / -nouser -nogroup > ------------------------------------------------- > > I have users come and go a lot, and some are in projects, so their files > can be scattered around the filesystem--not just in their home directory. > I've added this to my security check, and it helps me to keep on top of > things. > > Since (I think?) the default action of 'pw' and most other user add > programs is to reuse ids, this is also a security concern.. > > -Brandon Gillespie -- Wolfram Schneider http://www.apfel.de/~wosch/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 12:24:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05710 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:24:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05690 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:24:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA05621; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:24:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:24:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: dufault@hda.com Subject: Strategy Routines Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've noticed that startegy routines are never bassed buffers >64kb (at least as far as I can tell). However a read call can be done with a buffer just under 1/2 megabyte, and so the strategy routine will get called 9 or 10 times (using rawread/rawwrite). It seems that between these calls to the strategy routine no rescheduling is done, so if filling a 1/2 megabyte buffer takes a while, then interactive activity basically gets locked out for that period. Now I know that if the drivers routine can be interrupt driven the this is all solved, but if (as in digital_out_strategy() in labpc.c) someone passes a 1/2 megabyte buffer, youv'e got a problem as your going to be out of business for at least .5 seconds. So how can the equivalent of reschedule() under the linux kernel be done in here. You could then limit yourself (in the drivers) to say 1024 bytes written then a reschedule() to maintain the interactivity. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 13:28:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08962 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:28:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08957 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:28:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from se@dialup124.zpr.uni-koeln.de) Received: from dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23442; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:28:38 +0100 (MET) Received: (from se@localhost) by dialup124.zpr.Uni-Koeln.DE (8.8.7/8.6.9) id MAA02497; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:19:25 +0100 (CET) X-Face: " Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 12:19:25 +0100 From: Stefan Esser To: Mike Smith Cc: Terry Lambert , "Jamil J. Weatherbee" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BIOS information preservation (was Re: >64MB) References: <199711010213.TAA15524@usr08.primenet.com> <199711010406.OAA00828@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199711010406.OAA00828@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Sat, Nov 01, 1997 at 02:36:34PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 1997-11-01 14:36 +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > * Terry, I believe you mentioned that some Microsoft Developer package > contained sources for the Word Viewer, or something similar. Would > there be any chance of crossing this with a Win32-on-unix environment > like that from Willows or Bristol to get a FreeBSD Word Viewer? I'm > sick beyond belief of having to find a copy of Word and 2-300 sheets > of paper just to read these banal "standard" documents. The free Wordview binary runs fine under Wine. I've used it a number of times to read MS-Word .doc files. But there is no printer support, yet. Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 13:53:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10059 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:53:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10054 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:53:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA00468 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:53:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:53:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 7400 gates effected by probe routine Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk During a device probing routine I noticed that it is possible for the outputs of two 7400 TTL gates one in the high state and one in the low state to be connected together for not more than 10 microseconds. I was looking at a transistor level diagram of a 7400 and would like to verify the following. That this should not damage the gate itself, just pull about 10 times the normal current. I don't see anyway to get around this without just removing the probe routine. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 14:29:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11414 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:29:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA11406 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 14:29:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xRm2W-0006g2-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:29:08 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.7/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA05003 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:29:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199711012229.PAA05003@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: make -j4 on kernel Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 15:29:04 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is make -j 4 (for any value of 4 greater than 1) suppored in -current? I just tried it on a clean directory, and it failed badly on some include file that is generated. Pilot error, or unsupported feature? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 15:12:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13296 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:12:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13290 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:12:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 1583 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Nov 1997 23:13:15 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-103097 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199711012229.PAA05003@harmony.village.org> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 15:13:15 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Warner Losh Subject: RE: make -j4 on kernel Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Warner Losh; On 01-Nov-97 you wrote: > > Is make -j 4 (for any value of 4 greater than 1) suppored in -current? > I just tried it on a clean directory, and it failed badly on some > include file that is generated. Pilot error, or unsupported feature? > > Warner I belive make depend is required first. Which makes you think how much time is really saved, as the make tree is traversed twice... --- If Microsoft Built Cars: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car. Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 15:45:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14673 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:45:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from isgate.is (isgate.is [193.4.58.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14668 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 15:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from eh.est.is (eh.est.is [194.144.208.34]) by isgate.is (8.7.5-M/) with ESMTP id XAA29667; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:45:32 GMT Received: from didda.est.is (totii@ppp-22.est.is [194.144.208.122]) by eh.est.is (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA20166; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:43:51 GMT Message-ID: <345BBF14.446B9B3D@est.is> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 23:45:24 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=DEor=F0ur?= Ivarsson X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 7400 gates effected by probe routine References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA14669 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jamil J. Weatherbee wrote: > > During a device probing routine I noticed that it is possible for the > outputs of two 7400 TTL gates one in the high state and one in the low > state to be connected together for not more than 10 microseconds. I was > looking at a transistor level diagram of a 7400 and would like to verify > the following. That this should not damage the gate itself, just pull > about 10 times the normal current. I don't see anyway to get around this > without just removing the probe routine. Who does design something like this? There is another 74xx chip with four nand gates and open collector outputs to do this, I am not sure for how long time this will last, but not for long, I think. -- Þórður Ívarsson Thordur Ivarsson Rafeindavirki Electronic technician Norðurgötu 30 Nordurgotu 30 Box 309 Box 309 602 Akureyri 602 Akureyri Ísland Iceland --------------------------------------------- FreeBSD has good features, Some others are full of unwanted features! --------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 17:03:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18210 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:03:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18189 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:02:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@sdf.com) Received: from tom by misery.sdf.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xRo9B-0003xK-00; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:44:09 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:43:58 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: James Raynard cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security In-Reply-To: <19971030224420.52951@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, James Raynard wrote: > > echo "checking for invalid user or group ids:" > > > > find / -nouser -nogroup How does this check improve security? Also, shouldn't the security script be run under idprio? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 17:25:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19158 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:25:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19153 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:25:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20376; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 01:02:51 GMT Message-Id: <199711020102.BAA20376@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggested addition to /etc/security In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 18:04:39 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 01:02:51 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Nov 1, 10:58am, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > > > > find / -nouser -nogroup > > > Shouldn't this be "find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print"? > > Yeah, or even better: > > > > files=`find / -nouser -o -nogroup -print` > > ls -ldF $files > > > > (this looks better than find / -nouser -o -nogroup -exec ls -ldF {} \;) > > Looks better? They should produce identical output. "find / -nouser -o > -nogroup -print | xargs -n 30" is more efficient btw :)) however > using -exec with find is othe only one that works with filenames with > embedded spaces. Check the -print0 option on find. That, and the -0 option to xargs makes it a far better choice than -exec. BTW, why the -n 30 to xargs ? > > Niall > , -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 17:26:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19245 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:26:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19232; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:26:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20342; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:55:14 GMT Message-Id: <199711020055.AAA20342@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Brian J. McGovern" cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Win 95 PPP faster than pppd? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:11:59 EST." <199710302312.SAA04687@spoon.beta.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 00:55:13 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Sorry for the cross-post, but, although this is question, I think it'll > need the knowledge base of the hackers list. > > Anyhow, today, I ran a Windows 95 client, and a FreeBSD 2.2.2 and 2.2.5 > PPPd client through a remote access server that I'm testing. DTE rate > on the 16550s were 115200 in all cases. VJ compression on, bsd > compression off. I FTP'ed a TSB-standard file that has been rated > "very compressible". I ran dozens of iterations on both the Win 95, > and FreeBSD box, and got consistent results. > > The FreeBSD boxes managed about 8.26 K/s. The modem DTE port > was saturated at 115200bps +/- 20bps . I recently did some quick tests on pppd under -current & 2.2.2. In comparison, the older 2.2.2 pppd *sucks*. pppd 2.3.1 from -current either matched or out-performed user-ppp, and both trod all over pppd from 2.2.2. Try testing against the current user-ppp (upgrade the 2.2.2 box from http://www.freebsd.org/~brian). You can expect at least this performance from pppd on -current (and maybe better). -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 18:57:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23639 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:57:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp13.portal.net.au [202.12.71.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23634 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:56:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00521; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 13:22:24 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711020252.NAA00521@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dufault@hda.com Subject: Re: Strategy Routines In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 12:24:20 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 13:22:22 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > period. Now I know that if the drivers routine can be interrupt driven > the this is all solved, but if (as in digital_out_strategy() in labpc.c) > someone passes a 1/2 megabyte buffer, youv'e got a problem as your going > to be out of business for at least .5 seconds. So how can the equivalent > of reschedule() under the linux kernel be done in here. You could then > limit yourself (in the drivers) to say 1024 bytes written then a > reschedule() to maintain the interactivity. This is a fault in the driver design. Drivers should not hog the cpu, obviously. Try calling tsleep() out of the driver with a very short timeout. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 18:59:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23717 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:59:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp13.portal.net.au [202.12.71.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23711 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:59:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00542; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 13:25:58 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711020255.NAA00542@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7400 gates effected by probe routine In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 13:53:05 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 13:25:56 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > During a device probing routine I noticed that it is possible for the > outputs of two 7400 TTL gates one in the high state and one in the low > state to be connected together for not more than 10 microseconds. I was > looking at a transistor level diagram of a 7400 and would like to verify > the following. That this should not damage the gate itself, just pull > about 10 times the normal current. I don't see anyway to get around this > without just removing the probe routine. Jamil, during the "probing routine" it is more likely that crazed mice will be copulating on your motherboard than that two 7400 devices will actually be present in your system, let alone have their outputs in contention. Can you perhaps clarify the realities of the situation and what the actual problem that you believe that you have is? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 19:34:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25268 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:34:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25259 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:34:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 21615 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Nov 1997 03:35:14 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-103097 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199711020252.NAA00521@word.smith.net.au> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 19:35:14 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Strategy Routines Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dufault@hda.com, "Jamil J.Weatherbee" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Mike Smith; On 02-Nov-97 you wrote: > > > > period. Now I know that if the drivers routine can be interrupt driven > > the this is all solved, but if (as in digital_out_strategy() in > > labpc.c) > > someone passes a 1/2 megabyte buffer, youv'e got a problem as your > > going > > to be out of business for at least .5 seconds. So how can the > > equivalent > > of reschedule() under the linux kernel be done in here. You could then > > limit yourself (in the drivers) to say 1024 bytes written then a > > reschedule() to maintain the interactivity. > > This is a fault in the driver design. Drivers should not hog the > cpu, obviously. Try calling tsleep() out of the driver with a very > short timeout. Another thing to try is soft interrupts; Setup the copy, shcedule software insterrupt. The software interrupt routine gets control, copies a chunk, does the bookkeeping. If not done, schedules another interrupt and returns. I think it has lower overhead than tslepp and the added advantage that it will not panic if called outside a user context. --- If Microsoft Built Cars: Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car. Sincerely Yours, Simon Shapiro Atlas Telecom Senior Architect 14355 SW Allen Blvd., Suite 130 Beaverton OR 97005 Shimon@i-Connect.Net Voice: 503.799.2313 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 20:46:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27978 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:46:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from metronet.com (pgilley@fohnix.metronet.com [192.245.137.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA27969 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:46:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pgilley@metronet.com) Received: from localhost by metronet.com with SMTP id AA25031 (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for ); Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:47:20 -0600 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:47:16 -0600 (CST) From: Phil Gilley To: David Greenman Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug White Subject: Re: Problem with ed driver in 2.2.5 In-Reply-To: <199711010758.XAA28986@implode.root.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, David Greenman wrote: > Hmmm. Not sure how to deal with this. The reason why 0WS was turned on > was to 'fix' a serious ISA shared-memory performance problem that a lot of > newer motherboards have - the 8K RAM cards are almost useless without it. > It turned out to cause problems with reading the EEPROM on the '790 based > cards, so I killed the option for those prior to the 2.2.5 release...I'm > surprised to hear that you're having troubles with a '690 based board. > It shouldn't be a problem on most systems - this might indicate that your > ISA bus speed is set too fast. I couldn't figure out how to change the ISA bus speed on that PC so I tried a different 486/66 and SMC WD8013EPC. This other machine has a very different motherboard and the combo version of the ethernet card. With this hardware the default 2.2.5 ed driver usually causes a "Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode" at random addresses on FTP transfers. When it does work I get transfer rates around 40 KB/s. If I disable the 0WS option in the ed driver things work fine. Am I the only person experiencing this or am I just the only person still running old hardware? Phil Gilley pgilley@metronet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 20:57:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA28467 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:57:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA28462 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:57:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00676; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:57:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:57:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=DEor=F0ur?= Ivarsson cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 7400 gates effected by probe routine In-Reply-To: <345BBF14.446B9B3D@est.is> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id UAA28463 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ah... Thanks, What your'e talking about a 7401 (open collector nor) or a 7405 (open collector nand) (TTL Cookbook pg. 137), unfortunately I don't have a choice with this so I probably will just forget the probe routines. > Who does design something like this? There is another 74xx chip with > four nand gates and open collector outputs to do this, I am not sure for > how > long time this will last, but not for long, I think. > > -- > Þórður Ívarsson Thordur Ivarsson > Rafeindavirki Electronic technician > Norðurgötu 30 Nordurgotu 30 > Box 309 Box 309 > 602 Akureyri 602 Akureyri > Ísland Iceland > > --------------------------------------------- > FreeBSD has good features, > Some others are full of unwanted features! > --------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 21:13:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA29270 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA29262 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:13:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00322; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 15:39:24 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711020509.PAA00322@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: still mmap and my driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 19:56:24 BST." <199711011856.TAA01870@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:39:24 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Things are still weird with my driver ISA memory mapping. > I noticed that the space I need to map is 16386 bytes > from C8000 on. I changed isa_device id->id_msize to have 16386. > And I have an iosiz 0x4000 in my config file now. > > I still get a kernel panic, when I access 0xca000 in the driver. > > Did I still overlook anything? The details of the "panic". Was it really a panic? Do you perhaps mean that it was a page fault (probably good ol' trap 12)? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 21:37:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00544 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:37:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00537 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:37:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00793; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:36:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:36:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dufault@hda.com Subject: Re: Strategy Routines In-Reply-To: <199711020252.NAA00521@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, so say I am doing outb(), one bang after the other. Since timo can sleep up to 1/100 of a second. What would be a good "packet size" (i.e. number of outb() to limit myself to in a loop. My initial estimates would indicate that I could break up the buffer in something like: (this is just for example I know the modulus is pretty damn innefficient) for (i=0; i This is a fault in the driver design. Drivers should not hog the > cpu, obviously. Try calling tsleep() out of the driver with a very > short timeout. > > mike > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 21:40:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00825 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:40:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00820 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:40:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00800; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:40:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:40:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Simon Shapiro cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dufault@hda.com Subject: Re: Strategy Routines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Setup the copy, shcedule software insterrupt. > > The software interrupt routine gets control, copies a chunk, does the > bookkeeping. If not done, schedules another interrupt and returns. > > I think it has lower overhead than tslepp and the added advantage that it > will not panic if called outside a user context. > Wait, are you talking about doing an acquire_timer0() and then doing work in the routine you assign or what? That's one thing I don't understand, it seems with that particualr facility only one routine can be active on the timer 0 interrupt at a time, so that is why I have avoided it for these kinds of situations. Can someone let me in on the big secret. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 21:52:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01600 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:52:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au ([202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01591 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:52:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00293; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 16:18:54 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711020548.QAA00293@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dufault@hda.com Subject: Re: Strategy Routines In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 21:36:30 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 16:18:53 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (Peter, are you on -hackers?) > Ok, so say I am doing outb(), one bang after the other. Since timo can > sleep up to 1/100 of a second. What would be a good "packet size" (i.e. > number of outb() to limit myself to in a loop. I still have to wonder why you would want to do this in the first place. However I'd take two separate approaches: - sequenced output, use tsleep() between output values. - fast output, limit yourself to N bytes of output, then return from the write() call with a short count. No timeouts, no sleeping, no blocking for unreasonable periods. I'd perhaps limit to 512 bytes per write. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 22:15:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02518 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from sendero-ppp.i-connect.net (sendero-ppp.i-Connect.Net [206.190.143.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA02512 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:15:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shimon@sendero-ppp.i-connect.net) Received: (qmail 13256 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Nov 1997 06:15:40 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2-beta-103097 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 22:15:40 -0800 (PST) Organization: Atlas Telecom From: Simon Shapiro To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" Subject: Re: Strategy Routines Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dufault@hda.com Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Jamil J. Weatherbee; On 02-Nov-97 you wrote: > > Setup the copy, shcedule software insterrupt. > > > > The software interrupt routine gets control, copies a chunk, does the > > bookkeeping. If not done, schedules another interrupt and returns. > > > > I think it has lower overhead than tslepp and the added advantage that > > it > > will not panic if called outside a user context. > > > > Wait, are you talking about doing an acquire_timer0() and then doing > work > in the routine you assign or what? That's one thing I don't understand, > it seems with that particualr facility only one routine can be active on > the timer 0 interrupt at a time, so that is why I have avoided it for > these kinds of situations. Can someone let me in on the big secret. No big secret, me thinks. What I did in the DPT driver (actually now a standard feature of CAM, is use software interrupts. Maybe I'd better outline it (it is best followed with sys/dev/dpt/dpt_scsi.c in hand); early in the driver, in the global section, there is: static void dpt_swi_register(void *); ... extern void (*ihandlers[32]) __P((void)); ... Following that is a silly little function: static void dpt_swi_register(void *unused) { ihandlers[SWI_CAMBIO] = dpt_sintr; } SYSINIT(dpt_camswi, SI_SUB_DRIVERS, SI_ORDER_FIRST, dpt_swi_register, NULL) This code informs the kernel that I wish to register a software interrupt (of the SCSI veriaty, but it is trivial to clone it for other purposes). sometimes during boot (Justin, help... :-) this function will be called and setup a vector for the function dpt_sintr (see below). This function will run at cambio priority. The reason this looks like normal interrupt registration is that it is :-) Later on in the code we find: static INLINE void dpt_sched_queue(dpt_softc_t *dpt) { if (dpt->state & DPT_HA_QUIET) { printf("dpt%d: Under Quiet Busses Condition. " "No Commands are submitted\n", dpt->unit); return; } setsoftcambio(); } This little gem will schedule an interrupt. I am not certain exactly when it will be called, but if I remember correctly, when all other interrupts are cleared, or some such (again, Justin, or someone help...). void As you remember from above, the function dpt_sintr is the one that will be called. Here is dpt_sintr: dpt_sintr(void) { dpt_softc_t *dpt; int ospl; /* Find which DPT needs help */ for (dpt = TAILQ_FIRST(&dpt_softc_list); dpt != NULL; dpt = TAILQ_NEXT(dpt, links)) { /* * Drain the completed queue, to make room for new, " waiting requests. * We change to splcam to block interrupts from mucking * with the completed queue */ ospl = splcam(); if (dpt->queue_status & DPT_SINTR_ACTIVE) { splx(ospl); continue; } dpt->queue_status |= DPT_SINTR_ACTIVE; if (!TAILQ_EMPTY(&dpt->completed_ccbs)) { splx(ospl); dpt_complete(dpt); ospl = splcam(); } /* Submit as many waiting requests as the DPT can take */ if (!TAILQ_EMPTY(&dpt->waiting_ccbs)) { dpt_run_queue(dpt, 0); } dpt->queue_status &= ~DPT_SINTR_ACTIVE; splx(ospl); } } Don't pay any attention to what is inside it. Just remember it will run sometimein the future, in priority splsoftcam(). Now we are ready to work. At any point in the driver, where I want to run dpt_sintr, I simply call dpt_sched_queue. It is very important to remember that dpt_sched_queue(0 does NOT block, nor actually call dpt_sintr! dpt_sched_queue returns immediately, and dpt_sintr will eventiually run, sometime in the future. I am selecting these vague words on purpose, as this is exactly an interrupt mechanism. An event will be generated which will cause a stimuli. A routine will react to the stimuli but your code is de-coupled from it. How do you use it? Say you have a 2MB array you want to dump out a port in 128 byte chunks, leaving the CPU a chance to do something else. Assume that dpt_sintr dumps the data. Write a loop: static int dump_it(u_int8_t data, int size) { int ndx; dpt_softc_t dpt; for (ndx = 0; ndx < size; ndx += 128 ) { dpt_sched_queue(dpt); } } This is all ugly, full of extras (I am lazy with my cut-n-pest :-) but the idea should be clear. This is not original, nor new, nor necessarily the best for your needs, but a somewhat interesting way of doing it. Simon From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 22:41:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03671 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:41:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03665 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:41:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA01044; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:41:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:41:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" Reply-To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7400 gates effected by probe routine In-Reply-To: <199711020255.NAA00542@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'll be more specific, I want to be able to detect an 8255 on ISA bus. This goes back to the "dio" driver, you probably have or can get the source code from the "gnats". What bothers me is that I would really love to have a probe routine here, but the board doesn't read anything distinctive on startup. So I got an Idea on how to do a probe, but it would not be safe for all situations is my problem (i.e. I don't know what somebody might have connected to there dio board, the only safe state is high impedance inputs, which in this case I think have pullups connected.) If they do, I wonder if the outputs utilize open collector logic? Unfortunately I don't have a schematic, because Industrial Computer Source does not distribute those. My proposed probe routine is as follows, but I am uncertain about a lot of things in particular with the dio 48s: I have already verified it works, I am just worried it might over time destroy some equipment if the equipment is setup to give input to the dio board. There are two 8255's (@ iobase+0 & iobase+4) reset state for the 8255 is all inputs. a = inb(iobase+0) //input on port a outb (iobase+3, 0x8b) //set port a to output b = inb(iobase+0) //should be = 0 outb (iobase+3, 0x9b) //back to all inputs Well I just thought of a time this wouldn't work, if someone had equipment connected to port A all of whose inputs were 0. It is nice to see a transition but perhaps I should just switch each port to output and check for it being in Any clues on how to safely do probing? On Sun, 2 Nov 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > During a device probing routine I noticed that it is possible for the > > outputs of two 7400 TTL gates one in the high state and one in the low > > state to be connected together for not more than 10 microseconds. I was > > looking at a transistor level diagram of a 7400 and would like to verify > > the following. That this should not damage the gate itself, just pull > > about 10 times the normal current. I don't see anyway to get around this > > without just removing the probe routine. > > Jamil, during the "probing routine" it is more likely that crazed mice > will be copulating on your motherboard than that two 7400 devices will > actually be present in your system, let alone have their outputs in > contention. > > Can you perhaps clarify the realities of the situation and what the > actual problem that you believe that you have is? > > mike > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 22:55:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA04119 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04109 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:55:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00596; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:21:33 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711020651.RAA00596@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" cc: Mike Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7400 gates effected by probe routine In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 22:41:01 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 17:21:33 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'll be more specific, I want to be able to detect an 8255 on ISA bus. In a universal and safe fashion? AFAIK, no can do. We use a lot of 8255's, and all of my drivers do autodetect. Because we're running on a custom bus, I can use different techniques, but I've never come up with one that will let you detect an 8255 standalone; you have to know what's connected to it, or that it's there as part of some other hardware. > What bothers me is that I would really love > to have a probe routine here, but the board doesn't read anything > distinctive on startup. So I got an Idea on how to do a probe, but it > would not be safe for all situations is my problem (i.e. I don't know what > somebody might have connected to there dio board, the only safe state is > high impedance inputs, which in this case I think have pullups connected.) > If they do, I wonder if the outputs utilize open collector logic? No. Depending on the particular 8255 in question they're either NMOS (older parts) or CMOS outputs. > Unfortunately I don't have a schematic, because Industrial Computer Source > does not distribute those. It's not too hard to trace the board back, but regardless this card of yours has the change-of-state stuff; does it have a status register for same? Also, I don't have the right databook(s) here; what does the MODE/BITC register on the 8255 read after reset? > Any clues on how to safely do probing? Not really, no, unless MODE reads != 0xff. The 8255 isn't what you'd describe as the most sophisticated bit of hardware. I'd still recommend looking at the driver as having to address the hardware on the other side of the card, rather than the card itself. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 23:24:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05412 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:24:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05401 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:24:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11147; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:25:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711020725.XAA11147@implode.root.com> To: Phil Gilley cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with ed driver in 2.2.5 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Nov 1997 22:47:16 CST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 23:25:30 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I couldn't figure out how to change the ISA bus speed on that PC so I >tried a different 486/66 and SMC WD8013EPC. This other machine has a >very different motherboard and the combo version of the ethernet card. >With this hardware the default 2.2.5 ed driver usually causes a "Fatal >trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode" at random addresses on FTP >transfers. When it does work I get transfer rates around 40 KB/s. >If I disable the 0WS option in the ed driver things work fine. Am I >the only person experiencing this or am I just the only person still >running old hardware? Thanks for the feedback. I've gone ahead and killed the 0WS option from both -current and 2.2-stable. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 23:30:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05644 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:30:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05633 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:30:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA02603; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:29:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:29:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 7400 gates effected by probe routine In-Reply-To: <199711020651.RAA00596@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's not too hard to trace the board back, but regardless this card of > yours has the change-of-state stuff; does it have a status register for > same? The only readable ports are the 8255s There is a change of state control (write only) and a clear change of state (write only) in addition to the two 8255s It is all reads 0xff like bus (16 ports), and what is really lame is that they had 6 extra ports, I wish they had stuck some magic numbers in there to read. > > Also, I don't have the right databook(s) here; what does the MODE/BITC > register on the 8255 read after reset? Nothing (0xff), the mode register is write only (at least for me) > Not really, no, unless MODE reads != 0xff. The 8255 isn't what you'd > describe as the most sophisticated bit of hardware. I'd still > recommend looking at the driver as having to address the hardware on > the other side of the card, rather than the card itself. I wish I had some hardware sophisticated enough for that! I just can't see how you'd have anything that sophisticated unless you were implementing some kind of bus with the thing, which for a card that operates in MODE0 would be kinda cludgy, since MODE1 or 2? provides some bi-directional features with port c as the status port. What I have considered however is the discrete state virtual machine someone mentioned previously. Perhaps based on the 6800 instruction set. Giving the card its own instruction set via the driver, so that the driver could be programmed from the users level to respond to events (change of states) with somekind of coherent and reliable outputs. I guess ol' tsleep() would certainly be the thing here hunh? I can immediately think of something this would be useful for as I worked on a project were I used an off the shelf rommable 68hc11 board equipped with a single 8255 as the sole interface to the outside equipment. The key here would be to guarantee some kind of responsiveness because the virtual machines would run inside the kernel. This ofcourse would be something for the future, but I'd really like to keep this open. I'm beggin yah to commit the thing! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 23:45:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06251 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:45:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from trojanhorse.ml.org (mdean.vip.best.com [206.86.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06245 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:45:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamil@trojanhorse.ml.org) Received: from localhost (jamil@localhost) by trojanhorse.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA02622; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:43:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:43:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Jamil J. Weatherbee" To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 7400 gates effected by probe routine (Virtual Machines) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Furthermore, the virtual machines user interface (e.g. RS232/RS485 usually) would be through its device node. Changing programs and resetting could be done through ioctls on the devices. ?Hey? this could be the beginnings of some realtime features. It would be interesting in the case of this board to provide two virtual machines and pretend like they are on a SPI together. Actually I would probably change the instruction set a bit. By the way, what exactly is CAM in short? I had got the impression that it was some kind of new interface for doing ATAPI drivers. Exactly what does Simon mean by software interrupt (the only kind of software interrupt I know about is SWI:)? Just a list of kernel routines needing execution time, done with the clock in a round-robin? > The key here would be to guarantee some kind of responsiveness because the > virtual machines would run inside the kernel. This ofcourse would be From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Nov 1 23:53:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06655 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:53:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06648 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 23:53:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/RBI-Z14) with ESMTP id IAA18720; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 08:53:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.6.9) id JAA03761; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 09:07:52 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971102090752.08503@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 09:07:52 +0100 From: Christoph Kukulies To: Mike Smith Cc: Christoph Kukulies , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: still mmap and my driver References: <199711011856.TAA01870@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <199711020509.PAA00322@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199711020509.PAA00322@word.smith.net.au>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Nov 02, 1997 at 03:39:24PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Nov 02, 1997 at 03:39:24PM +1030, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Things are still weird with my driver ISA memory mapping. > > I noticed that the space I need to map is 16386 bytes > > from C8000 on. I changed isa_device id->id_msize to have 16386. > > And I have an iosiz 0x4000 in my config file now. > > > > I still get a kernel panic, when I access 0xca000 in the driver. > > > > Did I still overlook anything? > > The details of the "panic". Was it really a panic? Do you perhaps > mean that it was a page fault (probably good ol' trap 12)? Sure. I mean page fault because it cannot access 0xca000. It happens during the driver probe phase in the portion of code I wrote. It's quite obvious that it's because the page is not available. > > mike > -- --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de