From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 1 17:03:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA05272 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 17:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA05265 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 17:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA14588; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:31:54 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701020101.LAA14588@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Are HP DAT drives more unreliable than others? In-Reply-To: <199612312211.OAA24527@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Dec 31, 96 02:11:10 pm" To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:31:53 +1030 (CST) Cc: dave@persprog.com, andreas@klemm.gtn.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, aat81@dial.pipex.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan M. Bresler stands accused of saying: > > who makes high capacity QIC drives anymore? > archive made several models. they were bought by > conner and that seemed to end their production of > high capacity QIC drives. Tandberg. > > Aren't DLT's very reliable? For high capacity applications, I > > thought DLT's were considered best. > > sopposed to be very good. just be careful with the 'hook' > that grabs the leader from the cartidge. Oh no; you're telling me that DLT's are derived from the TK50??! 8) > jmb -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 1 22:06:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA17615 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA17610 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:06:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA16707; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:06:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701020606.BAA16707@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0alpha 12/3/96 To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Are HP DAT drives more unreliable than others? References: <199701020101.LAA14588@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:31:53 +1030." <199701020101.LAA14588@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 01:06:10 -0500 Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh no; you're telling me that DLT's are derived from the TK50??! > > 8) Everytime I see one, it gives me the willies... I have many not so fond memories of installing Ultrix 1.x from TK50 tapes. What interesting noises they made... louie From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 2 08:33:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA12120 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:33:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from persprog.com (persprog.com [204.215.255.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA12113 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:33:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by persprog.com (8.7.5/4.10) id LAA22641; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:20:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199701021620.LAA22641@persprog.com> Received: from dasa(192.2.2.199) by cerberus.ppi.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022636; Thu Jan 2 11:19:46 1997 Received: from DASA/SpoolDir by dasa.ppi.com (Mercury 1.21); 2 Jan 97 11:19:54 +0500 Received: from SpoolDir by DASA (Mercury 1.30); 2 Jan 97 11:19:51 +0500 From: "David Alderman" Organization: Personalized Programming, Inc To: "Louis A. Mamakos" , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:19:42 +0500 Subject: Re: Are HP DAT drives more unreliable than others? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199701020606.BAA16707@whizzo.transsys.com> References: Your message of "Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:31:53 +1030." <199701020101.LAA14588@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.50) Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 2 Jan 97 at 1:06, Louis A. Mamakos proclaimed: > > Oh no; you're telling me that DLT's are derived from the TK50??! > > > > 8) > > Everytime I see one, it gives me the willies... I have many > not so fond memories of installing Ultrix 1.x from TK50 tapes. What > interesting noises they made... > > I still have an old TK50 in my garage. You should have seen the error messages I got when I foolishly tried to use it with FreeBSD! Is a TK50 good for anything these days (other than a doorstop, that is)? Seriously, the new DLT's are supposedly quite reliable and with capacities of 20 Gigabytes or more, DLT's are quite common on big file servers these days. I cannot vouch for them personally, however. ====================================== When philosophy conflicts with reality, choose reality. Dave Alderman -- dave@persprog.com ====================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 2 12:22:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA29072 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:22:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.internode.net (mail.internode.net [198.161.228.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA29066 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:22:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:22:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.161.228.117] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id A5D0A7700AE; Thu, 02 Jan 1997 13:08:48 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970102132433.08ef3304@internode.net> X-Sender: drussell@internode.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dave@persprog.com From: Doug Russell Subject: Re: Are HP DAT drives more unreliable than others? Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 02:11 PM 12/31/96 -0800, you wrote: > who makes high capacity QIC drives anymore? > archive made several models. they were bought by > conner and that seemed to end their production of > high capacity QIC drives. Seagate, which bought Conner/Archive makes several different models, as do several other companies. Specifically, the new TR4 drive, with 4 gigs uncompressed storage, available in either IDE or SCSI versions looks interesting. And they aren't all that expensive, either. (Although, I haven't seen prices for the tapes yet.) I've got a slightly older Conner QIC-3080 drive, the SCSI version. Storage capacity is 2.0 gigs uncompressed per tape, and the tapes are about $45 Canadian$, or at least that's what Sony tapes cost at the last place I got them. Backup speed is quite fast. The drive tops out at 54-60 Megs/minute. Later...... From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 2 14:12:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA07460 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from persprog.com (persprog.com [204.215.255.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA07455 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by persprog.com (8.7.5/4.10) id RAA29357; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:08:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199701022208.RAA29357@persprog.com> Received: from dasa(192.2.2.199) by cerberus.ppi.com via smap (V1.3) id sma029355; Thu Jan 2 17:08:54 1997 Received: from DASA/SpoolDir by dasa.ppi.com (Mercury 1.21); 2 Jan 97 17:09:03 +0500 Received: from SpoolDir by DASA (Mercury 1.30); 2 Jan 97 17:08:43 +0500 From: "David Alderman" Organization: Personalized Programming, Inc To: Doug Russell Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:08:38 +0500 Subject: Re: Are HP DAT drives more unreliable than others? CC: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1.5.4.16.19970102132433.08ef3304@internode.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.50) Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 2 Jan 97 at 15:20, Doug Russell proclaimed: > At 02:11 PM 12/31/96 -0800, you wrote: > > >who makes high capacity QIC drives anymore? > >archive made several models. they were bought by > >conner and that seemed to end their production of > >high capacity QIC drives. > > I appreciate the information, but I didn't say this (at least I don't think so...). I think some of the people discussing QIC were referring to the "full size" models. TR4 is a Travan "miniQIC" format which traditionally are not as robust as the "full size" models, although I believe this has changed for some models. Unfortunately, when the miniQIC is mentioned, most people think of the old Colorado Jumbo series which were not known for their reliability. I have several on a shelf with burnt out stepper drivers. I hope that some of these newer, SCSI based drives are more robust. ====================================== When philosophy conflicts with reality, choose reality. Dave Alderman -- dave@persprog.com ====================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 2 15:04:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA10551 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:04:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA10546 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id JAA17610; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:34:11 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701022304.JAA17610@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Are HP DAT drives more unreliable than others? In-Reply-To: <199701021620.LAA22641@persprog.com> from David Alderman at "Jan 2, 97 11:19:42 am" To: dave@persprog.com (David Alderman) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:34:10 +1030 (CST) Cc: louie@TransSys.COM, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Alderman stands accused of saying: > > > I still have an old TK50 in my garage. You should have seen the > error messages I got when I foolishly tried to use it with FreeBSD! > Is a TK50 good for anything these days (other than a doorstop, that > is)? That would be a TZ50, not a TK50, correct? (SCSI interface...) TK50's are good for getting NetBSD up on Vax hardware, and I find that if you disable the spool latch and stand in front of a DEC oldtimer and idly start reeling the tape out they go interesting shades of green for a second or so. > Seriously, the new DLT's are supposedly quite reliable and with > capacities of 20 Gigabytes or more, DLT's are quite common on big > file servers these days. I cannot vouch for them personally, > however. The only gotcha I've heard with DLT's is that they're a bit on the fragile side, but I've never had an opportunity to confirm that. > Dave Alderman -- dave@persprog.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 2 16:20:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA15288 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:20:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.internode.net (mail.internode.net [198.161.228.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA15228 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:20:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:20:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.161.228.119] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AD62600140; Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:05:54 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970102172242.383f7202@internode.net> X-Sender: drussell@internode.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "David Alderman" From: Doug Russell Subject: Re: Are HP DAT drives more unreliable than others? Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:08 PM 1/2/97 +0500, David Alderman wrote: >> >who makes high capacity QIC drives anymore? >> >archive made several models. they were bought by >> >conner and that seemed to end their production of >> >high capacity QIC drives. >I appreciate the information, but I didn't say this (at least I don't >think so...). No, I know you didn't, but you were the one to whom he was responding. :-) >I think some of the people discussing QIC were referring >to the "full size" models. TR4 is a Travan "miniQIC" format which >traditionally are not as robust as the "full size" models, although I >believe this has changed for some models. Unfortunately, when the >miniQIC is mentioned, most people think of the old Colorado Jumbo >series which were not known for their reliability. I have several on >a shelf with burnt out stepper drivers. I hope that some of these >newer, SCSI based drives are more robust. This is all true as well. I never liked the Colorado drives, and have never heard much good about them. I personally, however. have several Archive/Conner models, from an old Archive Hornet 120/250 Meg from years ago, to a newer Conner 120/250 Meg model, to a much newer QIC-3080 2/4Gig MiniQIC, and I've never had a problem with any of them. The new drive is SCSI, and so far has excellent all the way around. (And quite fast.) The TR4's, or at least the Seagate/Conner model is supposedly quite good as well (from what I have heard, reliability seems good so far, although long term is still a ?, of course, and they are quick as well.) As I don't have one, I can't say anything personally, but I do know a couple people who have. While it may be true that the full QICs are pretty much gone, some of the newer mini cartridge drives seem good, and the capacity is decent, so at least compared to DAT, for people who use a limited number of tapes, they may make a lot of sense. DSS tapes are still cheaper (especially DSS-1s), so I suppose if you use many tapes it is less expensive to go DAT, but many of us only need a few tapes to maintain adequate backups. Just my observations/opinions, of course. Later...... From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jan 3 04:16:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA16172 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 04:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from penn.com (root@[205.146.6.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA16152; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 04:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from none.Compuserve.com (lport22.penn.com [208.0.122.71]) by penn.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA28642; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:15:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:15:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701031215.HAA28642@penn.com> X-Sender: jnuytten@pop.penn.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@@freebsd.org From: Jean-Paul Nuytten Subject: Unsubscribe Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe freebsd-questions jnuytten@penn.com unsubscribe freebsd-hardware jnuytten@penn.com Jean-Paul Nuytten Email: jnuytten@penn.com RD #3, Box 359A Tel: 814-641-0198 Huntingdon, PA USA 16652 FAX: 814-641-0199 From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jan 4 21:36:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA13707 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from monk.via.net (monk.via.net [140.174.204.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA13702 for ; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:36:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from joe@localhost) by monk.via.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id VAA23147 for hardware@freebsd.org; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:36:07 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:36:07 -0800 From: Joe McGuckin Message-Id: <199701050536.VAA23147@monk.via.net> To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: How to add a SCSI disk?? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to add a SCSI disk to a system with IDE drives. How do I configure the SCSI drives? -joe