From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jun 14 14:09:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00347 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:09:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from leaf.lumiere.net (j@leaf.lumiere.net [207.218.152.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00342 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:09:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@lumiere.net) Received: from localhost (j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere.net (8.9.0/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA23877; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@lumiere.net) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:09:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse To: Jack Velte cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: html email In-Reply-To: <01bd9589$b487d1a0$1001aace@eliot.pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >YIKES! Please, for the sake of us old-timers, turn the HTML off. :( > > this is one of the biggest problems with FreeBSD. html mail is THE standard > everywhere except MH doesn't grok it. is there progress in that direction? > does any free unix mail package do html mail well? HTML mail the standard? I've never seen HTML email anywhere, except an occasional misguided soul sending something off which can't be read by most of the people they send it to, whether those are individuals or mailing lists. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 06:06:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07439 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:06:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m1.gdr.net.au (root@dub018.pronet.net.au [203.34.103.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07364 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:06:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@pronet.net.au) Received: from right.gdr.net.au (funguys@right.gdr.net.au [192.168.0.2]) by m1.gdr.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14686 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:09:32 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199806151309.XAA14686@m1.gdr.net.au> X-Sender: right@m1.gdr.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:11:23 +1000 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: phil grainger Subject: the state of bsd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.InfoMagic.COM/discount1.htm see for yourself To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 08:16:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26210 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26164 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00900; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: phil grainger cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: the state of bsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:11:23 +1000." <199806151309.XAA14686@m1.gdr.net.au> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:16:00 -0700 Message-ID: <896.897923760@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is hardly "the state of BSD", this is InfoMagic dumping a bunch of old product since they've decided to get out of the business of doing the "BSDisc" series, probably as much because of Walnut Creek CDROM's competition as the fact that the guy who was doing these for them sort of ran out of steam. I also have to say, pretty much everything I've ever seen you post to this list falls more under the category of "slamming" FreeBSD than advocating it. What kind of not-so-hidden agenda have you got here, Phil? Perhaps you'd do us all a bigger favor by simply switching to an OS you're actually capable of advocating, since nothing I've seen from you would indicate that BSD falls into that category. Does the term "troll" mean anything to you? - Jordan > http://www.InfoMagic.COM/discount1.htm > see for yourself > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 14:09:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28196 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:09:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28157; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:09:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25015; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:09:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199806152109.PAA25015@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: copyright In-Reply-To: from "Bryan K. Ogawa" at "Jun 13, 98 08:30:24 pm" To: bkogawa@primenet.com Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG bryan k ogawa pointed out: > Another very positive mention of FreeBSD on InfoWorld Electric. Nicholas > Petreley says nice things about FreeBSD, particularly WC's documentation > for the set: > > http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?59820 Nice catch, Bryan. I cross-posted this on purpose, to reach the widest audience possible. Sorry for thos of you who received 2 or more copies. Everyone take a look at this article, and the FreeBSD follow-ups. Take a minute to post your own (positive!) FreeBSD success stories. I've directed replies to advocacy, since that is the most appropriate forum. Thanks for your help. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 19:51:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15410 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m1.gdr.net.au (root@dub006.pronet.net.au [203.34.103.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15403 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@pronet.net.au) Received: from right.gdr.net.au (right.gdr.net.au [192.168.0.2]) by m1.gdr.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02238 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:55:18 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199806160255.MAA02238@m1.gdr.net.au> X-Sender: right@m1.gdr.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:56:46 +1000 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: phil grainger Subject: the state of bsd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG everything is rosy, things are good, bsd has never been stronger. I like freebsd, Phil To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 19:54:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15935 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:54:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m1.gdr.net.au (root@dub006.pronet.net.au [203.34.103.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15926 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:54:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@pronet.net.au) Received: from right.gdr.net.au (right.gdr.net.au [192.168.0.2]) by m1.gdr.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02244 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:57:56 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199806160257.MAA02244@m1.gdr.net.au> X-Sender: right@m1.gdr.net.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:59:23 +1000 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: phil grainger Subject: the state of bsd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG jordan, how exactly is infomagic getting out of the freebsd distro scene a good thing though ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 21:18:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01057 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m1.gdr.net.au (root@dub010.pronet.net.au [203.34.103.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01005 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:18:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@pronet.net.au) Received: from right.gdr.net.au (right.gdr.net.au [192.168.0.2]) by m1.gdr.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02518 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:21:49 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199806160421.OAA02518@m1.gdr.net.au> X-Sender: right@m1.gdr.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:23:17 +1000 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: phil grainger Subject: Fwd: Re: freebsd version of ViewTouch (my hidden agenda) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Delivered-To: freebsd@scud.pronet.net.au >Delivered-To: alias-pronetnetau-freebsd@pronet.net.au >Sender: root@mailhost.clipper.net >Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:00:07 -0700 >From: Gene Mosher >Organization: ViewTouch, Inc. >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; AIX 4.2) >To: phil grainger >Subject: Re: freebsd version of ViewTouch > >phil grainger wrote: >> >> how about a non rpm release for freebsd users? >> gdr computers > >I'll see what we can do. Meanwhile, Red Hat is available for free over >the net, and we do have a new RPM available on our web site. If you do >have a box to set aside for Red Hat, even temporarily, I'd like to >encourage you to set one up and take a look at the RPM. I think you'll >like it and I'd like to hear from you what you think about it. > >Gene Mosher > is this not what a good advocate does? this didn't really tempt me to take up RH please notice the date-the subject-the response you'll notice i got a firm maybe! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 21:19:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01229 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m1.gdr.net.au (root@dub010.pronet.net.au [203.34.103.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01195 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@pronet.net.au) Received: from right.gdr.net.au (right.gdr.net.au [192.168.0.2]) by m1.gdr.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02524 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:22:41 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199806160422.OAA02524@m1.gdr.net.au> X-Sender: right@m1.gdr.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:24:09 +1000 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: phil grainger Subject: Fwd: Blender News Jun 15, 1998 (my hidden agenda some good news) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Delivered-To: freebsd@scud.pronet.net.au >Delivered-To: alias-pronetnetau-freebsd@pronet.net.au >Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:50:20 +0200 >From: ton@neogeo.nl (Ton Roosendaal) >To: freebsd@pronet.net.au >Subject: Blender News Jun 15, 1998 > > >---------------------Blender News------------------------ > >1. Version 1.34 for i386 > >For Linux and FreeBSD systems, a new version has been published >a week ago. This version needs Mesa 3.0 beta4. > >2. Version 1.34 for SGI > >The first OpenGL and X version. It's only 6.2 and only for test purposes! >It should function a lot better at O2's and Octanes. >Please report any remarks to blender@neogeo.nl. > >3. New features (PC versions): > >- Play (flipbook) restored. Only proper and fast with Mesa 3.0. > Use it for playback test animations (use Hamx or Targa) >- Frame counter cursor restored (try ALT+a) >- Set a render border (SHIFT+b) now works OK. (Also put on DisplayButtons->border) >- Icon button for top/front/side view. >- Debug option -d; prints a lot of info in console >- Draw Schematic View now with icons >- Blender 'forks' at startup. This frees the console. > >4. Bugs fixed: > >- After use of 'border select' text display in menu's disappeared. >- Pupmenu's outside screen gave fatal X-error. >- Text Object editing: accentcodes fixed: ALT+BACKSPACE >- Cursor was sometimes wrong after reading files >- Texspace draw error with dashed lines >- Ortho camera: zbuffer improved. Near/far still not OK >- Text Object. Character pound= alt-l >- In editmode with a 'set', draw error fixed. >- Scanline display during rendering had dropouts >- Sometimes - after render - frontbuffer drawing wasn't disabled >- Sometimes the render window got black and Blender 'hanged'. >- Better 'active window' implementation. >- Automatic name was too critical, more intuitive now >- Text editing (in Font Object): TAB error fixed. > > >------------------www.neogeo.nl/blender.html------------------ > >------------------------------------------------------------- > | Ton Roosendaal NeoGeo/Enji Games | > | ton@neogeo.nl blender@neogeo.nl http://www.neogeo.nl | >------------------------------------------------------------- > is mesa 3.0 beta4 ported for freebsd yet ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 21:34:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04516 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:34:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA04446 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:34:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25496; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:34:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3585F5D2.543BC8EC@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:34:26 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Draft of Nader letter References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason C. Wells wrote: > > After reading a great discussion I would like to thank you all for lively > discussion. It is good to be back. It's good to have you back! > You can write a letter to Mr. Nader and Mr. Love saying thanks for > mentioning the alternatives, including FreeBSD. You can tell them that > FreeBSD is really behind them. It is not necessary to tell them of any > shortcomings. Well said. I chose not to follow this advice, but this is certainly true. ;^) > You can then tell them you are in the FreeBSD camp. And tell them to keep > up the good work. We can tell them we feel that the computer industry > could user some consumer advocacy (nader's specialty). This way we can > advocate FreeBSD. Did that. See letter to follow. > Hey, it's not necessary to complain to anyone to let them know we exist. > Notice that the above discussion doesn't point out any errors that Mr. > Nader or Mr. Love may have. It _does_ let them know that FreeBSD is out > their and that we are interested in advancing the alternative OSes. Yup. Each of the Advocates should certainly do this, in their own way. Be polite. Be firm. Let them know we appreciate their work on OUR behalf, and that FreeBSD is here to stay. It's not just here, it's BETTER! > I am getting a bit philosophic now. It is not always necessary to speak > directly of an issue for your position on that issue to be communicated. 'Sallright. I'll follow this reply with a CC of my letter to Mr. Love. I found his letter to be well written and well reasoned, but believe I may have found a few points on which to strengthen it, and offer them freely. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 21:37:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05051 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:37:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05034 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:36:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25503; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:36:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3585F65D.CA47C812@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:36:45 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: love@cptech.org CC: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Draft of letter to DOJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mr. Love, This evening I read your draft letter to Mr. Klein et al with great interest. This is a topic I have some interest in, as I have been a user and occasional contributor to the FreeBSD project since its early days. I am also a user of and developer of software for the BeOS. Please allow me to express my thanks for your carefully reasoned letter. I have a few small suggestions which I believe will help to clarify your letter somewhat; please feel free to contact me if I can be of assistance in any way. Your mention of BeOS in Section III is well placed. I fear, however, the mention of only one commercial alternative to Windows may not impress the target audience at first blush. While BeOS is a marvel, it does not yet have a large, established user base, though many software developers such as myself are working to establish one. It may be beneficial to your argument to mention other commercially successful operating systems such as BSDi, Solaris x86, and UnixWare. In Section IV, your mention of both Linux and FreeBSD covers the largest installed base of users of "free" operating systems. As I am sure you are aware, other alternatives including NetBSD and OpenBSD also exist. The characterization of FreeBSD as "a non-copyleft Unix system that is in the public domain" is somewhat inaccurate. FreeBSD is copyrighted; the copyright allows the user to use FreeBSD in any way so long as credit is given to the creators of the code. It would please me, and others in the FreeBSD community, to see a more accurate representation of the FreeBSD license given. I also feel strongly that mention of the free availability of source code to BIND, the server that implements the Domain Name System, would enhance your argument. Not only is BIND the heart of the DNS, which in turn drives the World Wide Web, it is also arguably the worlds largest distributed information system, and is maintained primarily on the goodwill and cooperation of its users throughout the world. Again, please allow me to thank you, Mr. Nader, and your organization for your activities on the behalf of myself and my fellow computer users throughout the world. As you say, competition benefits users of computers everywhere, and ironically, would benefit Microsoft if they would only shed their cloak of paranoia and begin to compete in the marketplace. If I can help in any way to clarify or expand your know- lege of the free source software market, please contact me at: mailto:wes@softweyr.com I have sent a copy of this letter to the FreeBSD Advocacy mailing list, as there has been a lively discussion of your draft on this list. The general "sense of the list" was thankful that you and Mr. Nader are taking up this cause, and appreciation for the heightened awareness of free source products in general and FreeBSD in particular. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 22:09:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11657 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:09:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (root@jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA11635 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:09:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (root@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id WAA11300; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:09:44 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id WAA03251; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:59:22 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu cc: phil grainger , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: the state of bsd In-Reply-To: <896.897923760@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >I also have to say, pretty much everything I've ever seen you post to >this list falls more under the category of "slamming" FreeBSD than >advocating it. What kind of not-so-hidden agenda have you got here, >Phil? Perhaps you'd do us all a bigger favor by simply switching to >an OS you're actually capable of advocating, since nothing I've seen >from you would indicate that BSD falls into that category. Does the >term "troll" mean anything to you? Hear hear. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ | 206-633-5994 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 15 22:17:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13716 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (root@jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13690 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:17:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul7.u.washington.edu (root@saul7.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.2]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id WAA43346 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:17:11 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul7.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id WAA27767 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:06:49 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: FreeBSD-advocacy Subject: Bravo Mr. Peters Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am just in love with the letter that Mr. Peters just wrote to Mr. Love. This letter provides an excellent model for all to follow in the pursuit of advocacy. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ | 206-633-5994 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 16 00:51:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15491 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:51:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15469 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:51:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04674; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:51:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: phil grainger cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: the state of bsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:59:23 +1000." <199806160257.MAA02244@m1.gdr.net.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:51:02 -0700 Message-ID: <4670.897983462@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > jordan, how exactly is infomagic getting out of the freebsd distro scene a > good thing though ? It's neither a good thing or a bad thing, it's simply a market adjustment. Would it be a "good thing" to have a product with FreeBSD on it which was several revisions old and not actively updated by its maintainers? Somehow, I doubt that also. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 16 07:54:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18258 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA18249 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:54:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26231 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:54:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3586871F.7F6F3F6A@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:54:23 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bravo Mr. Peters References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason C. Wells wrote: > > I am just in love with the letter that Mr. Peters just wrote to Mr. Love. > This letter provides an excellent model for all to follow in the pursuit > of advocacy. I'm glad I could contribute. I spent 7 years working for the (US) government (as a contractor) and learned to mealy-mouth pretty well. I think it is best to couch your suggestions in the light of helping the person you are writing to; it is much more likely to be well received than a flame-o-gram. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jun 17 08:12:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06798 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06793; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:12:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27898; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:12:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3587DCEE.D9923AC4@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:12:46 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Draft of letter to DOJ References: <3585F65D.CA47C812@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > Mr. Love, > > This evening I read your draft letter to Mr. Klein et al with great > interest. [...] Mr. Love replied to my letter yesterday, thanking me for the points I had raised. He is now gathering information on free-source projects having difficulty obtaining technical information needed to write drivers. If you know of any companies that refuse to assist in writing drivers for FreeBSD, Linux, etc., please forward this information to me; I will collate it and send a single letter to Mr. Love so we do not flood his box with snippets of information. Hackers: I've included your list as you are the most likely to know of problems in developing drivers. I (and the freebsd-advocacy list) have been exchanging email with Mr. James Love, and assistant to Ralph Nader, as they prepare a letter to the US DOJ about the ability of "alternative operating systems" to compete with Microsoft, when the national computer manufacturers charge you for a Microsoft OS even if you don't want it. Please provide any information you can. Reply directly to me; I will cc: the -advocacy list on the letter I send to Mr. Love. Thanks in advance for your help. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 18 09:13:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28357 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:13:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28347 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:13:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29751; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199806181613.KAA29751@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: SyNTUnix: Password Synchronization In-Reply-To: <11FFBC5E23EDD111AF8D006008CEB82D014D76@EXCHANGESERVER> from Rick Siple at "Jun 18, 98 11:56:18 am" To: RickSiple@mpainc.com (Rick Siple) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rick Siple reported: > FYI, > Came across a product in the news today to synchronize passwords > between Windows NT and various flavors of Unix. This apparently > includes FreeBSD, however FreeBSD is never explicitly mentioned in the > press release, just in the trademarks section at the end. For that > matter, I don't think they mentioned any specific version of Unix in the > press release. > I have no particular interest in the product as I do not manage > any FreeBSD servers, but it could be added to the "Vendors" page of the > web site for the benefit of others. > > News article: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980616/va_syntuni_1.html > Home page: http://www.Syntunix.com Thanks, Rick. I've forwarded this message to the advocacy mail list, which is sort of becoming the FreeBSD "marketing" department. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jun 18 14:03:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA13286 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13254; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:03:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (skaro-1-124.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.138.124]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id QAA07951; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:03:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA15698; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:03:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980618210313.ZM15697@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:03:13 +0000 In-Reply-To: Open Systems Networking "Blue Ribbon prize for ATIPA!" (Jun 18, 4:15pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Open Systems Networking , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Blue Ribbon prize for ATIPA! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Perhaps this sort of thing should go into the next edition of the FreeBSD News Letter. Linux has hardware vendors that provide workstations and servers designed for that OS. It is a mutually supportive relationship. ATIPA designs and configures custom built servers and workstations especially to exploit the power of FreeBSD. FreeBSD benefits by having a solid vendor to partner with to provide users with a platform optimized for FreeBSD. Frank On Jun 18, 4:15pm, Open Systems Networking wrote: > Subject: Blue Ribbon prize for ATIPA! > > I just wanted to tell everyone who has not done business with atipa or is > looking for a good supplier of FreeBSD hardware, BUY FROM ATIPA! > I have recently just bought a monitor and some parts for a server from > them. There was no hassle, they are FAST in getting you the stuff you > need, and that is the biggest win for me, SPEED in getting me my > stuff :) They have a modest selection of hardware but it is all SOLID > hardwareand priced rather well!. Of course I would rather see them list > TYAN and ASUS motherboards rather than ASUS and Gigabyte. But you can't > win em all :) They are really good and really reliable. If you have any > questions about which hardware works best just ask them. > I dont see people very often writing about their experiences with > FreeBSD dealers wether its hardware or software. ATIPA gets my vote for > FreeBSD vender of the year :) Do we have such an honor? > So if your looking for a good dealer of FreeBSD friendly parts call up > atipa or check them out at http://www.atipa.com. > > Man did that sound like spam, maybe I should of started it with > EMAIL WORKS!!!! hehe > > Chris > > -- > "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." > > ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. > FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 > -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 > FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net > http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security > ===================================| http://open-systems.net > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > Version: 2.6.2 > > mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te > gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC > foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z > d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb > NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv > CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 > b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= > =BBjp > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Open Systems Networking To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message