From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 12 03:28:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10452 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:28:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10431 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id DAA02713 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:28:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:28:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ^kingston^freebsd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.kingston.com/yahoo/ Just replace Kingston with FreeBSD OS. You'd get something like: Over a million people rely on Yahoo! everyday. Ever wonder who Yahoo! relies on? Having the world's most popular destination site is a big responsibility. After all, with 95 million page views a day, the Yahoo! server can't afford to crash. Fortunately, Yahoo! uses FreeBSD OS for their servers. Why FreeBSD? Because we impose strict design controls of our source code to ensure stability you deserve. And if you think Yahoo! servers are tough on our OS, you should see what goes on at the FreeBSD testing lab. Our proprietary software used in conjunction with 100BaseT and Gigabit Ethernet stresses the Operating System beyond worst case system environment. Of course, all of these safety measure add to one thing: unmatched reliability and performance. To find out how Yahoo! maximizes their server performance visit www.freebsd.org or call Walnut Creek CDROM at (800) 786-9907. Now, why didn't we think of something like this? -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 12 12:43:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05657 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:43:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from scanner.worldgate.com (scanner.worldgate.com [198.161.84.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05652 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:43:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from znep.com (uucp@localhost) by scanner.worldgate.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id NAA25532; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12930; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko To: Wes Peters cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD E-Zine? In-Reply-To: <199807120008.SAA09060@obie.softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > My hidden microphone recorded Joey Garcia (bear@pacificnet.net) saying: > > % Okay...that's understood. Actually, a bi-weekly 'zine would be pretty > % neat. Anyways, back to the name thing. How about "BSD News" - > % www.bsdnews.com ? > > news.freebsd.org? It is always a bad idea to name a http server starting with "news". For the traditionalists, the connotations just don't work right. For the newbies, when they type "news.freebsd.org" into Navigator, they don't get what they want. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 12 14:49:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16273 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:49:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16267 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:49:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA10563; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:49:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807122149.PAA10563@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD E-Zine? From: Wes Peters To: gsutter@pobox.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jackv@pacbell.net Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: <01bdad53$c1d51520$1020aace@jackv.pacbell.net> References: <01bdad53$c1d51520$1020aace@jackv.pacbell.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA16268 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My hidden microphone recorded Jack Velte (jackv@pacbell.net) saying: % bsdi might be consulted, since they own the trademark, "BSD." How could I have forgotten our friends over at BSDi? Sure, let them submit articles too! We'll even let them link to our magazine from their web pages if they want! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 12 19:20:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22035 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22029 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (kashyyyk-1-184.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.133.58]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id VAA20945; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:20:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA00867; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:20:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980713022038.ZM866@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 02:20:38 +0000 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters "Re: FreeBSD E-Zine?" (Jul 12, 3:49pm) References: <01bdad53$c1d51520$1020aace@jackv.pacbell.net> <199807122149.PAA10563@obie.softweyr.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Wes Peters , gsutter@pobox.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jackv@pacbell.net Subject: Re: FreeBSD E-Zine? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 12, 3:49pm, Wes Peters wrote: > Subject: Re: FreeBSD E-Zine? > My hidden microphone recorded Jack Velte (jackv@pacbell.net) saying: > > % bsdi might be consulted, since they own the trademark, "BSD." > > How could I have forgotten our friends over at BSDi? Sure, let them > submit articles too! We'll even let them link to our magazine from > their web pages if they want! ;^) > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Wes Peters I think that expanding the e-zine to include all the BSD's is a great idea, if for no other reason than it will give a more unified look to BSD. Linux appears to have a single look and feel, but we that have used it know that that is not the case. Besides, there are some heavy hitters at BSDI that may make some contributions. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jul 12 21:40:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA08099 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:40:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from notabene.zer0.org (sac-port142.jps.net [209.63.255.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08087 for ; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:40:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@n1.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by notabene.zer0.org (8.8.7/8.8.8) id OAA22742; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:14:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19980712141209.A22732@notabene.zer0.org> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:12:09 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: "Jan B. Koum " , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ^kingston^freebsd References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Sun, Jul 12, 1998 at 03:28:13AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jul 12, 1998 at 03:28:13AM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > http://www.kingston.com/yahoo/ > > Just replace Kingston with FreeBSD OS. You'd get something like: > > Over a million people rely on Yahoo! everyday. Ever wonder who > Yahoo! relies on? > Having the world's most popular destination site is a big > responsibility. After all, with 95 million page views a day, the Yahoo! > server can't afford to crash. Fortunately, Yahoo! uses FreeBSD OS for > their servers. Why FreeBSD? Because we impose strict design controls of > our source code to ensure stability you deserve. And if you think Yahoo! > servers are tough on our OS, you should see what goes on at the FreeBSD > testing lab. Our proprietary software used in conjunction with 100BaseT and > Gigabit Ethernet stresses the Operating System beyond worst case system > environment. Of course, all of these safety measure add to one thing: > unmatched reliability and performance. To find out how Yahoo! maximizes > their server performance visit www.freebsd.org or call Walnut Creek CDROM > at (800) 786-9907. > > Now, why didn't we think of something like this? That's great! Do it! Do it! ... or if nobody else will do it, I will. Let me know. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 13 06:24:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27930 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bird.te.rl.ac.uk (bird.te.rl.ac.uk [130.246.19.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA27903 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmb@rcru.rl.ac.uk) Received: from rcru.rl.ac.uk (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by bird.te.rl.ac.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08567 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:22:44 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from tmb@rcru.rl.ac.uk) Message-Id: <199807131322.OAA08567@bird.te.rl.ac.uk> To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Byte article coming up. Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:22:43 +0100 From: Mark Blackman Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hello, I've not seen anyone else mention this, so I will. In the July 98 Issue of Byte, the "Coming up in August" box (pg. 18) shows a Software Lab Report entitled "Free Unixes", with the following blurb "We test Linux and FreeBSD to see how they measure up against their commercial cousins as servers and development platforms". I assume the review is already done and they're waiting to print it. However, I also note that Mcgraw-Hill has sold Byte lock, stock and barrel to CMP-Media (http://www.byte.com/subinfo.html) and thus say they won't be doing an August Issue in fact (in preparation for a relaunch). I imagine they'll still print it, but perhaps not in August. I hope they managed to find all the RAM for this test. With luck, they actually bothered to do some infinitesimal research and configure it properly. Anyway, just some forewarning for this review. Does anybody read Byte anymore? I don't usually, but I had already read this month's issue of Underwater Basket Weaving Update. Cheers, Mark Blackman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 13 06:57:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02066 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from micro.internexus.net (internexus.net [206.152.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02059 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:57:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cliff@cliffsworld.com) Received: from mother (ppp59.internexus.net [206.152.14.251]) by micro.internexus.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08825 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:57:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199807131357.IAA08825@micro.internexus.net> X-Sender: compatriot@mail.internexus.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:55:50 -0400 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: cliff ainsworth III Subject: Re: FreeBSD E-Zine? In-Reply-To: <980713022038.ZM866@darkstar.connect.com> References: <01bdad53$c1d51520$1020aace@jackv.pacbell.net> <199807122149.PAA10563@obie.softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hmmmmm...... some more random thoughts on the topic I like the name "Kernel". It is a completely non-specific title. I think we should definitely include all the BSDs. The more subject matter we can draw from, the easier it will be to have a larger publication. Which is our goal. I have never read linux journal, but I think it a safe assumption they cover all linux derivatives. Maybe we can have our own rotating banner advertising (at the top) throughout the mirror sites back to these companies in addition to having link exchange at the bottom. This might entice them. "unite us..... UNITE US.... UNITE THE CLANS!!!! " "BraveHeart" -cliff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 13 07:43:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09977 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (root@[194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09969 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:42:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo.tis [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24365; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:41:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35AA1CE5.C2CE7B29@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:42:45 +0100 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: The International School X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cliff ainsworth III CC: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD E-Zine? References: <01bdad53$c1d51520$1020aace@jackv.pacbell.net> <199807122149.PAA10563@obie.softweyr.com> <199807131357.IAA08825@micro.internexus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG cliff ainsworth III wrote: > Maybe we can have our own rotating banner advertising (at the top) > throughout the mirror sites back to these companies in addition to > having link exchange at the bottom. This might entice them. I wonder if there are enough FreeBSD-related sites for a webring... -- "Quantum Mechanics: the dreams stuff is made of." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 13 09:57:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26241 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:57:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26234 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:57:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@pacbell.net) Received: from jackv.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-1-25.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.25]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id JAA26101 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: InfoWorld article on open source Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:50:12 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdae7e$4dda33e0$1901aace@jackv.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG June 8, 1998 (Vol. 20, Issue 23) Free money model Open source software can make business sense By Lynda Radosevich and Blaise Zerega It's not an intuitive concept, but free software is becoming a hot new realm for making money. Now dubbed Open Source Software (OSS) by the community that knows it best, free software -- also called freeware -- means that a program is available in an uncompiled form so that anyone can tinker with the code, adapt it to their own needs, and offer their enhancements to the keeper of the code for incorporation into the next release. Some proponents believe that the budding development and business model for free software signals the beginning of a new trend in how corporations and Internet Service Providers will purchase software licenses and services. "In the medium-to-long run, unless [commercial developers] can adapt their business model to incorporate open-source development, they're doomed. They'll be outcompeted on reliability and features, plain and simple," says Eric Raymond, author of "The Cathedral and the Bazaar," a popular essay that influenced Netscape's decision to open its browser source code. Raymond, who will present his theories at the Usenix Annual Technical Conference in New Orleans next week (June 15 to June 19), says that commercial software companies practice a cathedral style of development in which centrally planned groups quietly work in isolation until they've completed a finished product. Open source developers, particularly the Linux community, use a bazaar method in which a worldwide corps of developers contribute via the Internet to develop software that gets released early, and often. Oddly, the free-wheeling bazaar style can result in more robust software, Raymond says. "Traditional software quality assurance is notoriously bad at squeezing out bugs. The bazaar mode isn't perfect at this, but it is clearly and dramatically better," Raymond says. GRATIS IT'S NOT. Money comes into play when commercial companies add value t o open source software by enhancing, testing, distributing, and supporting it. The vendors provide accountability, so customers have someone to call when things go wrong. Red Hat Software, for instance, distributes shrink-wrapped versions of Linux, publishes books, develops open source tools, and offers technical support. The model appears to be working. Bob Young, president of Red Hat expects the 3-year old company to earn revenues of $10 million this year and to ship about 400,000 copies of Linux, ranging from $50 to near $1,000 for a supported version. Customers can also get copies of Red Hat Linux free from Web sites or freeware CDs, but "when it comes to software, customers want the official version for mission-critical applications instead of the free one, even if they're the same version," Young says. Sendmail is taking a more hybrid approach. Sendmail is the open source mail-routing program that transports roughly 80 percent of the Internet's traffic. In November 1997, lead Sendmail developer Eric Allman and partner Greg Olson formed Sendmail to deliver a commercial version of open program. They raised $1 million in the first round of financing and expect to easily raise more than $6 million in a second round this summer. "I have to pinch myself every day. I've been through five startups, and it doesn't usually go like this," says Greg Olson, president and CEO of Sendmail, in Emeryville, Calif. Allman and Olson realized that as the bulk of Internet usage switched from academic to commercial, the needs of systems administrators were changing. If someone didn't provide commercial users with such features as easy systems administration tools, Sendmail could be eclipsed by proprietary software from Microsoft and Lotus already in use in companies' internal networks. At the same time, Sendmail will continue to develop a free, open source version of Sendmail, minus the ease-of-use tools that the academic community would scoff at anyway. COMMERCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS. Corel is taking an even more commercial approach to OSS. The company plans to release this summer WordPerfect 8 for Linux, and it will develop a full suite of business applications for Linux. Corel will charge for its proprietary business applications -- the Linux version of WordPerfect 8 is expected to sell for a price of $99. But its Corel Computer subsidiary offers a Linux version of its NetWinder workstations, and Corel is returning to the Linux development community source code that was developed for the NetWinder, such as a Java port and a port to the StrongArm chip, says Michael Cowpland, president and CEO of Corel, in Ottawa. "We really encourage the idea of the free and open operating system, but we also encourage the idea of Linux being a very good commercial platform for software developers such as ourselves to port to and end up with a very economical and attractive accommodation," Cowpland says. "Also, there is an estimated 7 million Linux users already growing at an estimated 100 percent per year. So this is, in fact, the fastest growing operating system out there." Even with such support, the open source business model faces several challenges. Convincing corporate executives of the viability of open source remains an obstacle for many IT managers. Larry Augustin, president of VA Research, a Mountain View, Calif., seller of Linux workstations, says that some customers request his company omit the word "Linux" from invoices to avoid attracting unwanted attention from management. "We see that it's still not acceptable at the upper levels of MIS to use something like Linux, but the engineers who need to get work done use it anyway," Augustin says. However, resistance is melting. "While we didn't trust [Linux] initially for our main systems, we found that it was so good at doing so many things that it made no sense not to use it," says James Delahanty, senior systems analyst at Gulf Interstate Engineering, in Houston. A senior manager at The Boeing Company, in Seattle, says that Boeing, like many other companies, is waiting to see if major vendors begin porting to open source platforms. "We would use [Linux] if we could get versions of Oracle that run on it," the manager says. Boeing has a small Linux installation, while Apache and Netscape are used widely. Jim Allchin, senior vice president of Microsoft's personal business and systems group, in Redmond, Wash., says the open source development model is missing a vital marketing component. "What marketing is supposed to do is take customer input and drive it into products. If you just build what engineering says, you may not get the right product," Allchin says. But proponents say the success of Linux, Apache, Perl and other open source software defies such skeptics. "On the whole, we've found that not having a phalanx of idiots in expensive suits between us and our customers helps us stay closer to their real needs. Instead, we get our customer input via the Internet and direct peer-to-peer communication of day-to-day bugs, problems and opportunities," Raymond says. Controversies aside, some analysts say they expect the open source business model to take off soon. "The key to it is that the code is out there, it's free, and companies can add value and charge for it with the benefits on ongoing development and without incurring the development costs, says David Vellante, an analyst at International Data Corp., in Framingham, Mass. "These guys are going to come out of the woodwork over the next nine to eighteen months." InfoWorld Senior Editor Lynda Radosevich can be reached at lynda_radosevich@infoworld.com. InfoWorld Senior Writer Blaise Zerega can be reached at blaise_zerega@infoworld.com. Copyright (c) 1998 InfoWorld Media Group Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 13 11:45:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14099 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:45:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyberscript.net (blah@00-40-95-45-91-7f.bconnected.net [209.53.28.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14093 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:45:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from webmaster@cyberscript.net) Received: by cyberscript.net from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:42:43 -0700 Received: by cyberscript.net from bobjim.bconnected.net (209.53.28.149::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:42:43 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bdae8e$0556b700$951c35d1@bobjim.bconnected.net> From: "Ryan Campbell" To: "Stuart Henderson" , "cliff ainsworth III" Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD E-Zine? Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:42:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, on my Site (freebsd online) I have a links database and there are about 40 to 50 links on it not including all the freebsd mirrors. I think that is alot for a web ring. If you do make one, tell me right away because I would love to join it. Ryan Campbell webmaster@cyberscript.net http://freebsd-online.ml.org -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Henderson To: cliff ainsworth III Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 7:51 AM Subject: Re: FreeBSD E-Zine? >cliff ainsworth III wrote: >> Maybe we can have our own rotating banner advertising (at the top) >> throughout the mirror sites back to these companies in addition to >> having link exchange at the bottom. This might entice them. > >I wonder if there are enough FreeBSD-related sites for a webring... > >-- >"Quantum Mechanics: the dreams stuff is made of." > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 13 22:28:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20892 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fosse.virage.com (root@mail.virage.com [206.169.1.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20879; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:28:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brandon@virage.com) Received: from cliff (cliff [128.0.0.179]) by fosse.virage.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA07147; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:28:07 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:28:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Brandon Huey X-Sender: brandon@cliff To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NFS locking Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Are there any efforts to reverse engineer the Sun NFS locking spec? :) FreeBSD so much deserves to be in enterprise computing, but this one thing i think prevents many from doing it. -bh -- Brandon Huey brandon@virage.com Virage, Inc. +1 650 577 3980 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jul 13 23:44:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA27998 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27993 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20227 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:44:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Spreading the message. Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:44:01 -0700 Message-ID: <20223.900398641@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I've begun to go outside some of the usual channels, now preaching the gospel in what where traditionally Linux forums. See my most recent editorial at Fresh Meat: http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 00:21:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01191 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:21:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01185 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA15133; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:51:20 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980714165119.C15083@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:51:19 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Spreading the message. References: <20223.900398641@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <20223.900398641@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Jul 13, 1998 at 11:44:01PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 13 July 1998 at 23:44:01 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, I've begun to go outside some of the usual channels, now > preaching the gospel in what where traditionally Linux forums. See my > most recent editorial at Fresh Meat: > > http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ Good stuff. But single malt is whisky, not whiskey :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 00:23:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA01458 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:23:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01453 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28993; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Spreading the message. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:51:19 +0930." <19980714165119.C15083@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:22:48 -0700 Message-ID: <28989.900400968@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, if that's the only typo, I'll actually be impressed. :-) - Jordan > On Monday, 13 July 1998 at 23:44:01 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Well, I've begun to go outside some of the usual channels, now > > preaching the gospel in what where traditionally Linux forums. See my > > most recent editorial at Fresh Meat: > > > > http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ > > Good stuff. But single malt is whisky, not whiskey :-) > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 08:56:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22078 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joshua.enteract.com (joshua.enteract.com [207.229.129.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA22070 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:56:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djhoward@joshua.enteract.com) Received: (qmail 27982 invoked by uid 1032); 14 Jul 1998 15:56:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19980714105607.G25543@enteract.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:56:07 -0500 From: dannyman To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Spreading the message. Mail-Followup-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20223.900398641@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <20223.900398641@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Jul 13, 1998 at 11:44:01PM -0700 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 13, 1998 at 11:44:01PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Well, I've begun to go outside some of the usual channels, now > preaching the gospel in what where traditionally Linux forums. See my > most recent editorial at Fresh Meat: > > http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ This article leaves me with an image of a daemon and a penguin, walking side by side. The penguin has red blood spattered about it's white front, and it's carrying on one of it's wings the head of Bill Gates. The daemon has his pitchfork thrust forward with either a dead body hanging off of it, or a speared-through copy of Windows '98, looking somewhat burned and tattered. The penguin and the daemon are both smiling at each other, but have a slightly uneasy look each. To top it off, they are both wearing kilts, one tartan is green and red, and the other red and green. Thanks Jordan. The soundtrack, of course, features Mel Gibson shouting "FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOMMMMM!!!!" from a hill in the distant background. Or something. -danny -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 10:28:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06501 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:28:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cerberus.partsnow.com (cerberus.partsnow.com [207.155.26.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06489 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don@Partsnow.com) Received: (from bin@localhost) by cerberus.partsnow.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA17148 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:22:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: cerberus.partsnow.com: bin set sender to using -f Received: from unknown(192.168.100.14) by cerberus.partsnow.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017145; Tue, 14 Jul 98 10:21:52 -0700 Message-ID: <35AB3110.BABDA815@Partsnow.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:21:04 +0000 From: Don Wilde Organization: Soligen, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mouse pad source Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just got a fax flyer from an Illinois company advertising custom-printed hard or soft mouse pads as low as $1.25 each. The URL is http://www.imageworksmfg.com or sales@imageworksmfg.com. -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ ________ _________ _________ ___==_ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde [don@PartsNow.com] [http://www.PartsNow.com ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo--ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo--oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 10:30:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06730 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06719 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01254; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dannyman cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Spreading the message. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:56:07 CDT." <19980714105607.G25543@enteract.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:28:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1251.900437336@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This article leaves me with an image of a daemon and a penguin, walking side > by side. The penguin has red blood spattered about it's white front, and it' s > carrying on one of it's wings the head of Bill Gates. The daemon has his > pitchfork thrust forward with either a dead body hanging off of it, or a > speared-through copy of Windows '98, looking somewhat burned and tattered. > The penguin and the daemon are both smiling at each other, but have a slightl y > uneasy look each. Hmmm. And they say I have a disturbed imagination. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 10:30:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06793 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:30:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06787 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:30:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA03925; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:30:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:30:12 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Spreading the message. In-Reply-To: <20223.900398641@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ Couldn't wait for the ezine huh? :-) Actually a very nice article Jordan. I noticed it's getting RAVE reviews from hardcore Linux people at Slashdot too so MAYBE you got through to them and some of our own zealots. Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ How many Microsoft employees does it take to change a light bulb? Zero. They declared Darkness[tm] the standard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 10:32:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07078 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:32:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from joshua.enteract.com (joshua.enteract.com [207.229.129.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA07071 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:32:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djhoward@joshua.enteract.com) Received: (qmail 1286 invoked by uid 1032); 14 Jul 1998 17:32:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19980714123219.J25543@enteract.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:32:19 -0500 From: dannyman To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Spreading the message. Mail-Followup-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980714105607.G25543@enteract.com> <1251.900437336@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <1251.900437336@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Jul 14, 1998 at 10:28:56AM -0700 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 14, 1998 at 10:28:56AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Hmmm. And they say I have a disturbed imagination. :-) In grammer school I had a friend who wrote 'Psychoman' comics ... this guy who walked around and killed people. Anyways ... uhmmm. Ho hum, danny -- // dannyman yori aiokomete || Our Honored Symbol deserves \\/ http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ || an Honorable Retirement (UIUC) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 13:08:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06068 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:08:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06058 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04865; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:08:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:08:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor Reply-To: Brett Taylor To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Chris Coleman Subject: seeking ezine help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, Chris Coleman and I have recently organized a group of people into a team to create a *BSD (obviously focusing on FreeBSD, but others are welcome) ezine. We've already got a great group of people, but we need some more help to get us off and running. Chris and I sat down and decided on a rough list of jobs that needed to be filled. I put them into a list on a web page and now we need to know what people can help with. Please take a look at the list and see what you think you can help us out with. If you have other ideas we welcome those as well. We're lacking in newsies (see web page description) and layout people. We could also use some help for Ryan Campbell in the graphics department. Heck we could use help in everything! Once you've got an idea of what you want to/can do, follow the mailto link at the top of the page (editor@ezine.freebsd.org) and let Chris and I know what you're interested in. The web page is located at: http://ezine.freebsd.org/ (this will be the development page) http://daemon-news.freebsd.org/ (this will be the released version eventually) For now they're both the same. :-) Thanks for taking the time to check it out and we hope you can join us! Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu http://peloton.physics.montana.edu/brett/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 20:30:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05025 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:30:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost1.u.washington.edu (mailhost1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05020 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs239-5.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.160]) by mailhost1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id UAA23313 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:30:22 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980714203318.00888330@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:33:18 -0700 To: From: don morrison Subject: bookstore comment card aftermath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After strolling through the bookstore isles once more this afternoon, I noticed once again that for the past two weeks all four copies of the complete freebsd were missing, and only two of the four cd-sets remained. Missing I thought? Yeah, missing. I couldn't believe they had been bought so quickly because the store hadn't even _carried_ freebsd stuff before the last month or so. So, I asked a clerk if they had any copies left. She informed me that the computer indicated there should be one copy left, which was nowhere to be found, which I told her, but then she told me that there were ten more on order and asked me if they should notify me when one came in! Ok guys, fess up, did you guys order 'em online through the form I sent the url to? :) Either that or my campus has a lot more freebsd aficionados than I was aware of(!) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 21:11:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10478 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:11:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10472; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:11:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA14890; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:11:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:11:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807150411.WAA14890@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Jordan's editorial at Freshmeat From: Wes Peters To: Cc: Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id VAA10473 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My hidden microphone recorded The Classiest Man Alive (ksmm@threespace.com) saying: % Did you guys read Jordan's editorial on the free software movement? It's % at http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ . Makes some valid % points, and apparently serves as good therapy for Jordan, who's obviously % had his fair share of frustration since 1993. I guess the Red Hat logo % in the lower right corner of the page stands as a testament to his % commitment towards unity in free software. :-) Thanks for the pointer. Well done, Jordan. We should make each and every member of the -advocacy list go read this -- we need them on board with this philosophy as well. (Note: I've corrected the URL above, and the cross-posting to -advocacy is intentional AND IMPORTANT. You Advocates GO READ THIS! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 21:42:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14700 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14689 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:42:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29142; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Wes Peters cc: Subject: Re: Jordan's editorial at Freshmeat In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:11:18 MDT." <199807150411.WAA14890@obie.softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:41:19 -0700 Message-ID: <29138.900477679@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [trimmed to advocacy] > % Did you guys read Jordan's editorial on the free software movement? It's > % at http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ . Makes some valid > % points, and apparently serves as good therapy for Jordan, who's obviously > % had his fair share of frustration since 1993. I guess the Red Hat logo Heh. Actually, just to set this particular point straight, I've been frustrated since at least the early 80's. :-) > Thanks for the pointer. Well done, Jordan. We should make each and > every member of the -advocacy list go read this -- we need them on > board with this philosophy as well. Thanks - I do hope the message sinks into at least a few skulls. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jul 14 22:04:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17486 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:04:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17463; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13369; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:04:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd013354; Tue Jul 14 22:04:31 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA03154; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:04:29 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199807150504.WAA03154@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NFS locking To: brandon@virage.com (Brandon Huey) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 05:04:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: In-Reply-To: from "Brandon Huey" at Jul 13, 98 10:28:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Are there any efforts to reverse engineer the Sun NFS locking spec? :) > > FreeBSD so much deserves to be in enterprise computing, but this one > thing i think prevents many from doing it. I wrote the code two years ago, except for some trivial user space stuff that someone else promised to write, and the fact that the kernel patches were never integrated by someone with the necessary commit priviledges. See http://www.freebsd.org/~terry/ Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jul 16 12:24:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29176 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:24:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark.lanminds.com [140.174.208.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29168 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:24:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv.pacbell.net (coatppp27.lanminds.com [208.1.127.87]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA06768 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: "FreeBSD is professional; linux is for home users" Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:18:59 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdb0ee$957f60e0$577f01d0@jackv.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG there is a thread on "silicon investor," a stock message web site about linux. i posted the white paper that jordan wrote. it got a lot of favorable response, but nobody had heard of FreeBSD there. then someone said, from reading the stuff on cdrom.com about Linux and FreeBSD, that FreeBSD was for professionals and Linux was for "home users." i wrote this marketing stuff and realize that it IS presenting a distorted perception of the ease of use of FreeBSD verses linux. in general i would now say that FreeBSD is the Easiest to use free unix on the market. walnut creek's marketing material might be updated after all this time. -jack ...... jack said: what in your reading made you come to this conclusion? i'm really curious, because this is the general perception, but FreeBSD and linux are really very similar to the non-kernel hacking user. why do you think linux is friendlier? ....... g_m10 said: Jack, This is how distributor http://www.cdrom.com/ presents them: "FreeBSD 2.2.6 is a full, professional quality, UNIX-compatible operating system." "Linux is a UNIX clone, .... for mid-size businesses and departments, but user-friendly enough for home users. I have no experience with either one. When I buy a new computer by the end of the year, I will order a CD ROM from one of the distributors, and will rely, of course, on their opinion. It might be just a perception, but this is how perception becomes a reality. If you have an experience with any or both of them, please, share it with us. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 17 01:14:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03977 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 01:14:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark.lanminds.com [140.174.208.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03972 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 01:14:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from lanfill.lanminds.com (coatppp2.lanminds.com [208.1.127.62]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id BAA03365 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 01:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: Linux Aims For The Mainstream Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 01:08:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdb15a$0dfb7c00$01d0ae8c@lanfill.lanminds.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/plain"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BDB11F.619CA400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BDB11F.619CA400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linux Aims For The Mainstream (07/15/98; 2:47 p.m. ET) By John Borland, TechWeb SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- The Linux operating system is at a turning point in its development, poised to jump from servers and the technical community to consumers' desktops, the software's creator and developers said at a Linux conference Tuesday night. Speaking at a "Future of Linux" conference sponsored by Taos Mountain, a systems-support company in Santa Clara, Calif., Linux creator Linus Torvalds led developers in calling for more applications that would move the open-source operating system to end-user desktops. "We already have the server side. All the pieces are basically there," Torvalds said. "Let's go after the end user. Let's go after the [grandmothers] and the 15 year old boy who just wants to play games and look at pretty pictures on the Internet." The conference was evidence of a maturing Linux community, which has often struck a prickly note toward the Microsoft-using computing mainstream. The free OS was developed and released onto the Net by Torvalds, who still retains final control over the system kernel's evolution. It has been enthusiastically adopted by technically savvy open source code advocates, and even touted as a Windows-killer by developers as prominent as Netscape's Marc Andreessen. But most of the applications written for the Unix-based OS have been geared toward technical users, and the system does not yet have a widely used GUI. But that technical focus is beginning to shift. Linux developers such as Red Hat software are increasingly writing office-style programs, and established developers such as Netscape and Corel are porting their products to Linux to get around Microsoft competition in the Windows market. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "Advancing to a non-Microsoft desktop ... will essentially revolutionize the independent software market." -- Larry Augustin VA Research ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "The most exciting thing happening is the development of desktop applications [for Linux]," said Larry Augustin, president of VA Research, a Mountain View, Calif.-based company that makes Linux workstations. "Advancing to a non-Microsoft desktop ... will essentially revolutionize the independent software market." Torvalds and several other leading Linux developers went so far as to extend an unlikely olive branch toward Microsoft. "I would be very happy [if] they started doing Office for Linux," Torvalds said, in a comment that clearly surprised many of the assembled faithful. "There is a lot to be said for the PR and marketing power of Microsoft. Let's hope they use that to start promoting free software." Torvalds also dismissed the effect of the Department of Justice action against Microsoft on Internet Explorer and Windows 98. "Technology is moving too fast for the DOJ to keep track," he said. "I really think that the thing to decide what will happen in the computer market in the near term is the market." But the market won't necessarily lead to Microsoft monopoly, he added. "A lot of companies feel really bad about being in the Windows market. Not because they hate Microsoft, or hate Windows, but because it's really hard to compete there." Companies, like Corel and Netscape, looking for a profitable niche are increasingly developing products for Linux and Unix systems, he said, in turn creating more demand for non-Windows operating systems. "That's one of the reasons why monopoly just doesn't work," he said. But panelists appealed to the anarchic community of Linux developers to keep their applications and different versions of the OS compatible. Otherwise, the community risked fragmentation, slowing Linux's momentum, they said. "You're in the big time now," Augustin said. "Now we've got commercial software, we have people out there that don't have the source code to everything. Let's try and make things a little easier for people, and keep this compatible." ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BDB11F.619CA400 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001d01bdb15a$0deab320$01d0ae8c@lanfill.lanminds.COM> R0lGODdhDwAJAKIAAP///9LU16q73VtbWxRDoQAzmR4eHgAAACwAAAAADwAJAEADNwi6cP6OLQhB KULcA8boA1csQTEI3GA0FqYVxxmj4mUbxoHHa0EEAoKpA5S1MhsBwKAMHV+URwIAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BDB11F.619CA400-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 17 08:57:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29048 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:57:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from osprey.grizzly.com (med.sc.scruznet.com [165.227.115.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28974; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from markd@Grizzly.COM) Received: (from markd@localhost) by osprey.grizzly.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA01169; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807171558.IAA01169@osprey.grizzly.com> From: Mark Diekhans To: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD JVM crashes and burns in public... Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG a very poor showing, but at least FreeBSD was considered worthy of being compared against Sun, microsoft and IBM... http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-08-1998/jw-08-volanomark.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 17 13:31:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14914 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:31:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from buford.the-link.net (proxy.zebra.net [209.136.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14889; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:31:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from saten@shell.zebra.net) Received: from shell.zebra.net (shell.zebra.net [209.12.240.129]) by buford.the-link.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14263; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:34:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (saten@localhost) by shell.zebra.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA25199; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:28:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from saten@shell.zebra.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:28:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Phillip Salzman To: Mark Diekhans cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD JVM crashes and burns in public... In-Reply-To: <199807171558.IAA01169@osprey.grizzly.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > a very poor showing, but at least FreeBSD was considered worthy of being > compared against Sun, microsoft and IBM... > > http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-08-1998/jw-08-volanomark.html Well, at least Linux earned some bad marks too... -- Phillip Salzman eclipse@gulf.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 17 14:23:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25549 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:23:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beelzebubba.sysabend.org (root@beelzebubba.sysabend.org [209.48.124.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25541; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grail@sysabend.org) Received: from sysabend.org (root@localhost) by beelzebubba.sysabend.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19163; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:23:34 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTP: helo sysabend.org from grail@sysabend.org server @orpheus.amdahl.com ip 159.199.101.3 Message-ID: <35AFC09C.2185949D@sysabend.org> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:22:36 -0700 From: Giao Nguyen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phillip Salzman CC: Mark Diekhans , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD JVM crashes and burns in public... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone tried the new Kaffe on FreeBSD and compared how that runs against the JDK's time? Giao Phillip Salzman wrote: > > a very poor showing, but at least FreeBSD was considered worthy of being > > compared against Sun, microsoft and IBM... > > > > http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-08-1998/jw-08-volanomark.html > > Well, at least Linux earned some bad marks too... > > -- > Phillip Salzman > eclipse@gulf.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 17 18:41:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02064 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-41.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02055 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA08520 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:42:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:42:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux gets Oracle8 port.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hrm. This is quite interesting, what's the word on a FreeBSD port? http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?980717.whorlinux.htm And what about Intel? http://eetimes.com/news/98/1017news/linux.html - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 18 15:38:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06651 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 15:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06645 for ; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 15:38:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id PAA16176; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 15:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 15:37:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Phillip Salzman cc: Mark Diekhans , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD JVM crashes and burns in public... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How is this suppose to us feel better?!?! Don't you understand that someone who has no clue and will read this article will thing that free software is crap? DON'T YOU? I'd rather have someone use Linux then Microsoft. Jeez... go read http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Phillip Salzman wrote: >> a very poor showing, but at least FreeBSD was considered worthy of being >> compared against Sun, microsoft and IBM... >> >> http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-08-1998/jw-08-volanomark.html > > > Well, at least Linux earned some bad marks too... > >-- >Phillip Salzman >eclipse@gulf.net > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 18 16:02:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08172 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:02:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08164 for ; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16401; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:01:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd016287; Sat Jul 18 16:01:51 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA18049; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:01:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199807182301.QAA18049@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD JVM crashes and burns in public... To: jkb@best.com (Jan B. Koum) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:01:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: saten@shell.zebra.net, markd@Grizzly.COM, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jan B. Koum" at Jul 18, 98 03:37:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> a very poor showing, but at least FreeBSD was considered worthy of being > >> compared against Sun, microsoft and IBM... > >> > >> http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-08-1998/jw-08-volanomark.html > > > > > > Well, at least Linux earned some bad marks too... > > How is this suppose to us feel better?!?! Don't you understand that > someone who has no clue and will read this article will thing that free > software is crap? DON'T YOU? I'd rather have someone use Linux then > Microsoft. Jeez... go read http://editorials.freshmeat.net/jordan980713/ It's not supposed to make you feel better. It's supposed to make you want to *do something* about the percieved problem. The article URL was posted to the advocacy list -- no one here but advocates. What it *might* do is keep advocates from mindlessly advocating an OS that won't meet someones needs simply because it is their favorite OS. It would be much worse to have someone recommend FreeBSD (or Linux), and then have it fall on its butt in a very spectacular and very public way. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message