From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Aug 30 04:02:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA11767 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA11732 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA24011; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:01:01 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:01:01 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Simon Shapiro cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > Doug Rabson, On 29-Aug-98 you wrote: > > ... > > > I have never tried moving the compile directory around. I always build > > inside a complete FreeBSD source tree. Always use 'make -m > > ...src//share/mk' to pick up the right makefiles (already mentioned). > > Maybe I will just start putting up GENERIC kernels for people to try on > > freefall. > > This will be most useful. Cold bootstrappiung an O/S is always a challenge > one tries to repeat unnecessarily :-) > > I hope we can get soon to the point where make release works. This will > allow me to routinely build releases and post them here. You guys are so > busy with important stuff. I have put a GENERIC kernel up on freefall as http://www.freebsd.org/~dfr/kernel.GENERIC-300898.gz. This kernel has root hardwired to /dev/rsd0a (because I haven't written the code to figure out which disk was actually booted). If you need a different root, tell me and I'll build another. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 06:33:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19540 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:33:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA19535 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 19471 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 14:35:00 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:35:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Doug Rabson Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Rabson, On 30-Aug-98 you wrote: ... > I have put a GENERIC kernel up on freefall as > http://www.freebsd.org/~dfr/kernel.GENERIC-300898.gz. This kernel has > root hardwired to /dev/rsd0a (because I haven't written the code to > figure > out which disk was actually booted). If you need a different root, tell > me and I'll build another. Got a problem: * First had to fibure out how to tell the NetBSD loader to load the kernel. Hint to the less initiated than I am (Last DEC cnsole I worked on was on a VAX/750): + shutdown now + umount -a + halt + AT the ``Boot >>> '' prompt, type: boot freebsd.GENERIC-980830 (or whatever) Any deviation will cause the previous kernel to boot. No prompts will be given, The Netbsd documentation is sparse or incorrect in this area. * I now have on my console: ... Jumping to entry point... NetBSD/Alpha Secondary Boot, Revision 1.9 (ross@zeta... VMS PAL rev: 0x11000000010114 OSF PAL rev: 0x10000000020116 Switch ot OSF PAL code succeeded. Boot file: freebsd.GENERIC-980830 Boot flags: a Loading freebsd.GENERIC-980830... 204492read text: Unknown error: code 0 Boot failed! Halting... halated CPU 0 ... Sounds like I need your help... Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 06:51:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA22229 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:51:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA22224 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:51:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03800; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:50:01 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:50:01 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Simon Shapiro cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > Doug Rabson, On 30-Aug-98 you wrote: > > ... > > > I have put a GENERIC kernel up on freefall as > > http://www.freebsd.org/~dfr/kernel.GENERIC-300898.gz. This kernel has > > root hardwired to /dev/rsd0a (because I haven't written the code to > > figure > > out which disk was actually booted). If you need a different root, tell > > me and I'll build another. > > Got a problem: > > * First had to fibure out how to tell the NetBSD loader to load the kernel. > Hint to the less initiated than I am (Last DEC cnsole I worked on was on > a VAX/750): > + shutdown now > + umount -a > + halt > + AT the ``Boot >>> '' prompt, type: > boot freebsd.GENERIC-980830 (or whatever) > Any deviation will cause the previous kernel to boot. No prompts will be > given, The Netbsd documentation is sparse or incorrect in this area. > > * I now have on my console: > > ... > > Jumping to entry point... > > NetBSD/Alpha Secondary Boot, Revision 1.9 > (ross@zeta... > > VMS PAL rev: 0x11000000010114 > OSF PAL rev: 0x10000000020116 > Switch ot OSF PAL code succeeded. > > Boot file: freebsd.GENERIC-980830 > Boot flags: a > > Loading freebsd.GENERIC-980830... > 204492read text: Unknown error: code 0 > > Boot failed! Halting... > > halated CPU 0 > > ... > > Sounds like I need your help... What is the filename of the kernel? If you decompress the kernel and put it in /kernel.GENERIC-980830 then you should be able to use: >>>boot -file kernel.GENERIC-980830 -flags s to attempt a boot to single-user mode. You won't manage multiuser without installing FreeBSD binaries but single-user works fine with NetBSD init and sh. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 07:47:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA29888 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 07:47:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA29881 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 07:47:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 4648 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 15:49:51 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:49:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Doug Rabson Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Rabson, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: ... > What is the filename of the kernel? If you decompress the kernel and > put > it in /kernel.GENERIC-980830 then you should be able to use: > > >>>boot -file kernel.GENERIC-980830 -flags s > > to attempt a boot to single-user mode. You won't manage multiuser > without > installing FreeBSD binaries but single-user works fine with NetBSD init > and sh. I re-downloaded the kernel. It has the name ...gz, but does not appear gzipped on this end. My problem above is caused by ncftp having too much to drink. The file got truncated (?). I tried again, as per your directions, and the kernel boots but dies like this: After all the kernel starts, init seems to fork and then put the message: ``Enter shell pathname or RETURN for SH:'' It outputs this string a word or so at a time, with about a second delay between pieces. Then the system is solidly frozen. I am on a serial console. Could it be it somehow switches to the (non-exising) video+keyboard? If so, can I plug in just any VGA card? I do not have the fancy DEC one. Alternately, can I add to -flas ``h', so flags will be ``-flags -sh'' ? Sorry to bother you with these details, but I ned to get FreeBSD running to do the FCAL and i2o ports for the 64bit DPT. The alternative is NetBSD. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 08:18:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03635 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:18:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral.com (gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03619 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:18:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA14480; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:17:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:17:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Simon Shapiro cc: Doug Rabson , freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What hardware do you have again? Sounds like the SIO ports aren't working right. On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > Doug Rabson, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > ... > > > What is the filename of the kernel? If you decompress the kernel and > > put > > it in /kernel.GENERIC-980830 then you should be able to use: > > > > >>>boot -file kernel.GENERIC-980830 -flags s > > > > to attempt a boot to single-user mode. You won't manage multiuser > > without > > installing FreeBSD binaries but single-user works fine with NetBSD init > > and sh. > > I re-downloaded the kernel. It has the name ...gz, but does not appear > gzipped on this end. My problem above is caused by ncftp having too much > to drink. The file got truncated (?). > > I tried again, as per your directions, and the kernel boots but dies like > this: > > After all the kernel starts, init seems to fork and then put the message: > > ``Enter shell pathname or RETURN for SH:'' > > It outputs this string a word or so at a time, with about a second delay > between pieces. Then the system is solidly frozen. > > I am on a serial console. Could it be it somehow switches to the > (non-exising) video+keyboard? > > If so, can I plug in just any VGA card? I do not have the fancy DEC one. > Alternately, can I add to -flas ``h', so flags will be ``-flags -sh'' ? > > Sorry to bother you with these details, but I ned to get FreeBSD running to > do the FCAL and i2o ports for the 64bit DPT. The alternative is NetBSD. > > Simon > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 09:05:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09809 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:05:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09802 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA04159; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:04:32 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:04:32 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Simon Shapiro cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > Doug Rabson, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > ... > > > What is the filename of the kernel? If you decompress the kernel and > > put > > it in /kernel.GENERIC-980830 then you should be able to use: > > > > >>>boot -file kernel.GENERIC-980830 -flags s > > > > to attempt a boot to single-user mode. You won't manage multiuser > > without > > installing FreeBSD binaries but single-user works fine with NetBSD init > > and sh. > > I re-downloaded the kernel. It has the name ...gz, but does not appear > gzipped on this end. My problem above is caused by ncftp having too much > to drink. The file got truncated (?). > > I tried again, as per your directions, and the kernel boots but dies like > this: > > After all the kernel starts, init seems to fork and then put the message: > > ``Enter shell pathname or RETURN for SH:'' > > It outputs this string a word or so at a time, with about a second delay > between pieces. Then the system is solidly frozen. > > I am on a serial console. Could it be it somehow switches to the > (non-exising) video+keyboard? > > If so, can I plug in just any VGA card? I do not have the fancy DEC one. > Alternately, can I add to -flas ``h', so flags will be ``-flags -sh'' ? > > Sorry to bother you with these details, but I ned to get FreeBSD running to > do the FCAL and i2o ports for the 64bit DPT. The alternative is NetBSD. I have seen this behaviour very rarely. I think sometimes my code which enables ISA interrupts doesn't work properly on the Miata but I can't figure out a pattern yet. Try rebooting a couple of times to see if it unsticks itself. I haven't had much luck putting non DEC vga cards into the 433au which I have. The SRM console barfs something about an invalid device and then halts. That might just be a firmware problem and I have only tried using an MGA Mill II as a replacement for the TGA card which came with it so your mileage may vary. The boot process will detect which console is active automatically. You don't need any extra flags. There is an SRM environment variable 'console' to select the default ('set console graphics' or 'set console serial') but even if a serial console is the default, you can swap back to the vga console by hitting return a few times. Don't worry about bothering me with details. I can't fix bugs unless people tell me about them :-). -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 09:39:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15310 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (homeworld.cygnus.com [205.180.83.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15305 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:39:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cgd@netbsd.org) Received: (qmail 23624 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 16:31:30 -0000 To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! References: From: cgd@netbsd.org (Chris G. Demetriou) Date: 31 Aug 1998 09:31:30 -0700 In-Reply-To: Simon Shapiro's message of Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87af4ljeot.fsf@netbsd1.cygnus.com> Lines: 36 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Simon Shapiro writes: > * First had to fibure out how to tell the NetBSD loader to load the kernel. > Hint to the less initiated than I am (Last DEC cnsole I worked on was on > a VAX/750): > + shutdown now > + umount -a > + halt > + AT the ``Boot >>> '' prompt, type: > boot freebsd.GENERIC-980830 (or whatever) > Any deviation will cause the previous kernel to boot. No prompts will be > given, The Netbsd documentation is sparse or incorrect in this area. All of the statements below are assuming that the '>>>' prompt you see is the SRM console prompt. Since I wrote most of the NetBSD boot block code, and a quick grep of the current sources don't indicate that any prompt like that would bit spit out by them, that seems correct. The ">>>" prompt is the SRM console prompt. It's well documented, in the manuals that should have come with your system (if your system came with SRM), or which are available on the web (if i recall correctly). Additionally, SRM supports not-extensive but usable online help. NetBSD shouldn't be documenting how the firmware, provided by somebody else entirely, works. Do you have any examples of places where the NetBSD documentation _does_ mention SRM and/or the things you tell SRM to boot, which are incorrect? cgd -- Chris Demetriou - cgd@netbsd.org - http://www.netbsd.org/People/Pages/cgd.html Disclaimer: Not speaking for NetBSD, just expressing my own opinion. Plug: Get your official NetBSD-1.3.2 CDROM set today! http://www.netbsd.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 11:34:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04216 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:34:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA04209 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:34:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 7093 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 19:36:25 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:36:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Matthew Jacob Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug Rabson Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Jacob, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > What hardware do you have again? It says on the face plate digital PERSONAL WORKSTATION 433au It has 3 ISA and 5 PCI slots. Looks like a PC minitower. > Sounds like the SIO ports aren't working right. The work fine for the boot monitor, NetBSD, and FreeBSD up to the point of init trying to talk. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 11:36:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04792 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral.com (gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04682 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA15151; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:35:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:35:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Simon Shapiro cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug Rabson Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Make sure your console settings are correct for ttys. On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > Matthew Jacob, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > > > What hardware do you have again? > > It says on the face plate digital PERSONAL WORKSTATION 433au > It has 3 ISA and 5 PCI slots. Looks like a PC minitower. > > > Sounds like the SIO ports aren't working right. > > The work fine for the boot monitor, NetBSD, and FreeBSD up to the point of > init trying to talk. > > Simon > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 11:45:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07450 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07420 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:45:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 7270 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 19:46:54 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:46:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Doug Rabson Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Rabson, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: ... > > Sorry to bother you with these details, but I ned to get FreeBSD > > running to > > do the FCAL and i2o ports for the 64bit DPT. The alternative is > > NetBSD. > > I have seen this behaviour very rarely. I think sometimes my code which > enables ISA interrupts doesn't work properly on the Miata but I can't > figure out a pattern yet. Try rebooting a couple of times to see if it > unsticks itself. I tried. Works well under NEtBSD. Stuckunder FreeBSD. > I haven't had much luck putting non DEC vga cards into the 433au which I > have. The SRM console barfs something about an invalid device and then > halts. That might just be a firmware problem and I have only tried > using > an MGA Mill II as a replacement for the TGA card which came with it so > your mileage may vary. I really do not need a graphics card. The machines come from Compaq (still saying DIGITAL on the box :-) without the video card, nor a keyboard. I'd rather keep them this way (they are all news, firwall, DNS, etc. servers). Wee are trying to get FreeBSD to run on them, with the DPT cards. We belive it to be a good server, maybe an alternative to NetApps someday. > The boot process will detect which console is active automatically. You > don't need any extra flags. There is an SRM environment variable > 'console' to select the default ('set console graphics' or 'set console > serial') but even if a serial console is the default, you can swap back > to > the vga console by hitting return a few times. It finds the serial console pretty well. I'll leave it there for now. > Don't worry about bothering me with details. I can't fix bugs unless > people tell me about them :-) Healthy attitde! Just tell me what I can do to help. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 12:05:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11234 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:05:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA11177 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 7495 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 20:06:47 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87af4ljeot.fsf@netbsd1.cygnus.com> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:06:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: (Chris G. Demetriou) Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris G. Demetriou, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > Simon Shapiro writes: > > * First had to fibure out how to tell the NetBSD loader to load the > > kernel. > > Hint to the less initiated than I am (Last DEC cnsole I worked on was > > on > > a VAX/750): > > + shutdown now > > + umount -a > > + halt > > + AT the ``Boot >>> '' prompt, type: > > boot freebsd.GENERIC-980830 (or whatever) > > Any deviation will cause the previous kernel to boot. No prompts will > > be > > given, The Netbsd documentation is sparse or incorrect in this area. > > All of the statements below are assuming that the '>>>' prompt you see > is the SRM console prompt. Since I wrote most of the NetBSD boot > block code, and a quick grep of the current sources don't indicate > that any prompt like that would bit spit out by them, that seems > correct. Yup. That looks like SRM prompt. > The ">>>" prompt is the SRM console prompt. It's well documented, in > the manuals that should have come with your system (if your system > came with SRM), or which are available on the web (if i recall > correctly). Additionally, SRM supports not-extensive but usable > online help. NetBSD shouldn't be documenting how the firmware, > provided by somebody else entirely, works. Sorry for having offended you. My statements were inaccurate. Clarification: * There was NO documentation with the systems. None. Entirely not your fault. * NetBSD charter indeed should/does not cover documenting the SRM. * However, it is a ``nice to have'' a brief message in the alpha/INSTALL that says something like: The boot monitor (program/BIOS) that Alphas use, is called SRM (on machines compatible with Digital Unix, NetBSD, etc. Thisprogram unders certain conditions will prompt you with ``Boot>>> ''. these conditions are: a. The machine just booted from power-up. you have about N seconds to type something, or the default action (whatever that may be) will take place. b. You shut the machine down with the /sbin/halt command. If you use ``/sbin/reboot'', or ``/sbin/shutdown -r ...'' You will not be given a chance to type in your boot command. No, it is not your duty to document DEC's work, but it sure would have helped your fellow man to have these comments instead of ``...Once the floppy has been made, you simply need to put it in the drive and type boot dva0''. * I combed the NetBSD documentation, in search for a way to boot alternate kernels, and all I could find, in the ``Building Custom Kernel'' section is a reference to typing spaces to the first (second) stage prompt. This obviously did not work. > Do you have any examples of places where the NetBSD documentation > _does_ mention SRM and/or the things you tell SRM to boot, which are > incorrect? I think it is hard to prove omission. Nothing in the documentation is explicitly and clearly misleading. From my moderate experience in this field, I collect that there is an assumption of prior knowledge in the explanations and guides I did find. While my computer knowledge may be average, I am coming from a diffferent prior knowledge that I presume is assumed in what I read so far. Finally, I really do not want this thread to become a flaming war so typical to Net vs. Free. I think you all have done and continue to do a wonderful job that deserves much gratitude and many thanks. Having bad feelings (or causing them) is not on my mind. Tell me something else; Does NetBSD have the equivalent of FreeBSD soft interrupts? If so, I may ease my life and simply port my drivers to NetBSD, instead of trying to have NetBSD boot FreeBSD. Having DPT, i2o, and FiberChannel in NetBSD may not be a bad thing. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 12:22:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13242 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA13213 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:22:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 7720 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 20:24:19 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:24:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Matthew Jacob Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug Rabson Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Jacob, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > Make sure your console settings are correct for ttys. Translation to English, please :-) Tty settings are whatever NetBSD installed, and seem to be correct for netbsd, all the way through init starting (under FreeBSD). Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 12:27:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14036 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:27:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral.com (gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14031 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:27:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA15277; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:26:08 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:26:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Simon Shapiro cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug Rabson Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Not always true. This works on my AlphaPC164 (compressed lines): console "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" unknown on secure but failed, I believe, on an alphastation 600, which has: ttyC0 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" xterm on secure enabled instead. I don't know why - haven't dug into the details, but there's a bit of console FM in here somewhere, so you might want to check it out. On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Simon Shapiro wrote: > > Matthew Jacob, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > > > Make sure your console settings are correct for ttys. > > Translation to English, please :-) > > Tty settings are whatever NetBSD installed, and seem to be correct for > netbsd, all the way through init starting (under FreeBSD). > > Simon > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 13:01:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18302 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:01:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral.com (gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18292 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA15424; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:00:18 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:00:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Simon Shapiro cc: cgd@netbsd.org, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just to clarify: > Having DPT, i2o, and FiberChannel in NetBSD may not be a bad thing. There already is support for FibreChannel in NetBSD (and FreeBSD). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 13:25:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24324 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA24307 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 8497 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 21:27:30 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:27:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Matthew Jacob Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: Doug Rabson , freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Jacob, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > Not always true. > > > This works on my AlphaPC164 (compressed lines): > > console "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" unknown on secure > > but failed, I believe, on an alphastation 600, which has: > > ttyC0 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" xterm on secure > > enabled instead. If (and I do not really doubt you) this is true, this is most bizzare. I'll try that. I did. Same thing. > I don't know why - haven't dug into the details, but there's > a bit of console FM in here somewhere, so you might want > to check it out. I would love to, but that exceeds my time available :-( I do not mind running options, but I will not do justice to this project if I tried to make myself DEC Alpha expert overnight. Since DU ran fine, and NetBSD runs fine, I tend to leave it in the ``FreeBSD has a problem'' category. Still needs solving, of course, but me thinks not a configuration problem on this side of the universe. Willing to be proven wrong :-) Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 13:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24788 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA24774 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:26:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 8517 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 21:28:51 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:28:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Matthew Jacob Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, cgd@netbsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Jacob, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > Just to clarify: > > > Having DPT, i2o, and FiberChannel in NetBSD may not be a bad thing. > > There already is support for FibreChannel in NetBSD (and FreeBSD). DPT? Where? Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 13:41:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28163 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28151 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:41:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gallatin@duke.cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22848; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21209; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:40:28 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gallatin) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:40:28 -0400 (EDT) To: Doug Rabson Cc: Simon Shapiro , freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13802.61200.986416.952138@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Rabson writes: > > After all the kernel starts, init seems to fork and then put the message: > > > > ``Enter shell pathname or RETURN for SH:'' > > > > It outputs this string a word or so at a time, with about a second delay > > between pieces. Then the system is solidly frozen. > > > I have seen this behaviour very rarely. I think sometimes my code which > enables ISA interrupts doesn't work properly on the Miata but I can't > figure out a pattern yet. Try rebooting a couple of times to see if it > unsticks itself. I think you may have more luck if you power-cycle the box. When I've seen this under NetBSD/alpha, I suspected it was caused by the IDE controller acting as a noise generator, and was able to cure it by disabling the ide controller. > I haven't had much luck putting non DEC vga cards into the 433au which I > have. The SRM console barfs something about an invalid device and then > halts. That might just be a firmware problem and I have only tried using > an MGA Mill II as a replacement for the TGA card which came with it so > your mileage may vary. This happens if you attempt to put an 'unverified' card onto pci bus 0 (and thus expose it to the pyxis DMA bug present in non-GL miatas). See my Miata brain-dump below for an explanation, bearing in mind that a DPW {433,500,600}{a,au} == "Miata" or "MiataGL" A MiataGL can be distingiushed from a Miata by the presense of a Cypress SIO (aka "PCI Peripheral Controller") chip in place of the Intel SIO chip at Bus 00 Slot 07 (from SRM '>>>show config'). A non-GL Miata has some nasty PCI bugs, including problems doing DMA reads across page boundaries. All Miatas are equipped with a 21x52 pci-pci bridge which breaks up DMA's at page boundaries. The 3 32-bit PCI slots sit behind the ppb. The 2 64-bit slots sit directly on the primary PCI bus. To avoid problems with cards which are not safe for Digital UNIX (eg, they're not certain they don't do DMA reads across page boundaries), DEC put a hack into the SRM console which prevents you from placing unverified cards directly on the primary PCI bus. If you know a card & its driver are "safe", or if you're on a MiataGL, you can get around this by setting the undocumented SRM console variable 'pci_device_override' to the PCI device id followed by the pci vendor id. Eg, for a card with the VendorID 0x10e8 & Device ID 0x8043, one may use: >>> set pci_device_override 804310e8 In later versions of the firmware, I hear that you can just set it to -1. On a Miata-GL that I just uncrated this afternoon (with version V6.8-44 of the firmware), pci_device_override no longer needs to be set. Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Aug 31 15:46:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20310 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:46:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA20285 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:46:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 16655 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 23:47:51 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <13802.61200.986416.952138@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:47:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Andrew Gallatin Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug Rabson Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andrew Gallatin, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > I think you may have more luck if you power-cycle the box. When I've > seen this under NetBSD/alpha, I suspected it was caused by the IDE > controller acting as a noise generator, and was able to cure it by > disabling the ide controller. How? (I think there is a problem we may want to solve here, still) ... > > your mileage may vary. > > This happens if you attempt to put an 'unverified' card onto pci bus 0 > (and thus expose it to the pyxis DMA bug present in non-GL miatas). > See my Miata brain-dump below for an explanation, bearing in mind that > a DPW {433,500,600}{a,au} == "Miata" or "MiataGL" > > A MiataGL can be distingiushed from a Miata by the presense of a > Cypress SIO (aka "PCI Peripheral Controller") chip in place of the > Intel SIO chip at Bus 00 Slot 07 (from SRM '>>>show config'). A > non-GL Miata has some nasty PCI bugs, including problems doing DMA > reads across page boundaries. All Miatas are equipped with a 21x52 > pci-pci bridge which breaks up DMA's at page boundaries. The 3 32-bit > PCI slots sit behind the ppb. The 2 64-bit slots sit directly on the > primary PCI bus. To avoid problems with cards which are not safe for > Digital UNIX (eg, they're not certain they don't do DMA reads across > page boundaries), DEC put a hack into the SRM console which prevents > you from placing unverified cards directly on the primary PCI bus. > > If you know a card & its driver are "safe", or if you're on a MiataGL, > you can get around this by setting the undocumented SRM console > variable 'pci_device_override' to the PCI device id followed by the > pci vendor id. Eg, for a card with the VendorID 0x10e8 & Device ID > 0x8043, one may use: > >>> set pci_device_override 804310e8 > > In later versions of the firmware, I hear that you can just set it to > -1. > > On a Miata-GL that I just uncrated this afternoon (with version > V6.8-44 of the firmware), pci_device_override no longer needs to be > set. Wow! Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Sep 1 08:50:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29161 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29149 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:50:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gallatin@duke.cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12014; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22485; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:49:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gallatin) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:49:03 -0400 (EDT) To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug Rabson Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: References: <13802.61200.986416.952138@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13804.2770.473870.7600@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Simon Shapiro writes: > > Andrew Gallatin, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > > I think you may have more luck if you power-cycle the box. When I've > > seen this under NetBSD/alpha, I suspected it was caused by the IDE > > controller acting as a noise generator, and was able to cure it by > > disabling the ide controller. > > How? > > (I think there is a problem we may want to solve here, still) > > ... Under NetBSD, simply leaving all references to the ide controller out of the config file did the trick. Under NetBSD, the ide controller got sort of half-attached -- enough for the isa irq to be enabled, but no devices on the controller were successfully attached. Doug - Does the ISA code disable all/most interrupts at boot time, or does it leave things as it found them? I'm worried the console firmware might be leaving the ide ISA irq enabled on Simon's machine. > > Wow! Yeah. Tell me about it. There's another variable I forgot to mention called dma_prefetch. On a MiataGL you want this on. It increases the DMA read b/w from ~70MB/sec to ~103MB/sec (for 8k transfers). (We currently turn this off in cia.c for non-GL miatas, but never turn it on). Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Sep 1 09:18:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04274 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:18:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral.com (gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04264 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:18:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA18157; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:17:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:17:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Andrew Gallatin cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug Rabson Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: <13804.2770.473870.7600@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd watch this for crossing page boundaries on reads if you're using any S/G map stuff. In fact, I'd have an extra mapping at the end of the S/G list that just remaps the first page so that any prefetch on a read won't get a fault but will just pick up known good data. > > > > Wow! > > Yeah. Tell me about it. There's another variable I forgot to mention > called dma_prefetch. On a MiataGL you want this on. It increases > the DMA read b/w from ~70MB/sec to ~103MB/sec (for 8k transfers). > (We currently turn this off in cia.c for non-GL miatas, but never turn > it on). > > Drew > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Sep 1 09:32:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA06404 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06393 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:32:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gallatin@duke.cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13371; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22540; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:31:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gallatin) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:31:48 -0400 (EDT) To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: References: <13804.2770.473870.7600@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13804.8316.576176.582569@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Jacob writes: > > > I'd watch this for crossing page boundaries on reads if you're using any > S/G map stuff. In fact, I'd have an extra mapping at the end of > the S/G list that just remaps the first page so that any prefetch > on a read won't get a fault but will just pick up known good data. Gee, I'd hope a GL would be smart enough not to prefectch past the end of a S/G segment; I do know that the page-boundry DMA restriction is gone on GL's. However, I use the direct-map segment in my Myrinet drivers (on DU & on *BSD), so I can't verify that it doesn't happen. Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Sep 1 09:36:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07038 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from feral.com (gw100.feral.com [192.67.166.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07030 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:36:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from localhost (mjacob@localhost) by feral.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA18244; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:35:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:35:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@feral-gw Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Andrew Gallatin cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: <13804.8316.576176.582569@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I wouldn't claim that it does or doesn't happen- I just would suspect this as being what a piece of h/w would do. It's probably a lot of gates and probably a big performance penalty to avoid prefetch across certain boundaries. As much as possible, I prefer direct map as well. On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Matthew Jacob writes: > > > > > > I'd watch this for crossing page boundaries on reads if you're using any > > S/G map stuff. In fact, I'd have an extra mapping at the end of > > the S/G list that just remaps the first page so that any prefetch > > on a read won't get a fault but will just pick up known good data. > > Gee, I'd hope a GL would be smart enough not to prefectch past the end > of a S/G segment; I do know that the page-boundry DMA restriction is gone on GL's. > > However, I use the direct-map segment in my Myrinet drivers (on DU & > on *BSD), so I can't verify that it doesn't happen. > > Drew > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Sep 1 10:12:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12716 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12672 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA11800; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809011652.JAA11800@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: mjacob@feral.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:52:16 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Andrew Gallatin wrote: > Gee, I'd hope a GL would be smart enough not to prefectch past the end > of a S/G segment; I do know that the page-boundry DMA restriction is gone on GL's. > > However, I use the direct-map segment in my Myrinet drivers (on DU & > on *BSD), so I can't verify that it doesn't happen. The hardware can prefetch past the last real S/G segment. When I implemented S/G map DMA in NetBSD/alpha, I had to add a spill pte after the last valid segment. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Sep 1 11:22:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28036 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chaos.schizo.com (schizo.com [209.25.112.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28006 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:22:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bits@oldwarez.com) Received: from chaos.schizo.com (bits@oldwarez.com [209.25.112.18]) by chaos.schizo.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04709 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:26:21 -0400 (EDT) From: BitS X-Sender: bits@chaos.schizo.com To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: kernel compile under NetBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, I have a Multia, the lowend 166 axpci133 board, the generic kernel from ~dfr lockes directly after loading, I'm using the NetBSD boot loader to get that far. It loads like so: >>>boot dka0 -file kernel (boot dka0.0.0.6.0 is a valid boot block reading 15 blocks from dka0.0.0.6.0 bootstrap code read in base = 166000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 1e00 initializing HWRPB at 2000 initializing page table at 158000 initializing machine state setting affinity to the primary CPU jumping to bootstrap code NetBSD/Alpha Primary Boot Jumping to entry point... NetBSD/Alpha Secondary Boot, Revision 1.9 (cgd@notunix, Mon May 11 02:03:30 PDT 1998) VMS PAL revision: 0x1000000010530 OSF PAL rev: 0x1000000020123 Switch to OSF PAL code succeeded. Boot file: kernel Boot flags: Loading kernel 2044992+171800 [32406+1435+2249216+139322] Entering kernel at 0xfffffc00003200c0 And thats it.... it stops and does nothing till a power cycle So... since that isn't working, I'm attempting to compile the kernel under NetBSD, however, make dies with this error: cc -c -x assembler-with-cpp -DLOCORE -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DKERNEL -include opt_global.h -U__NetBSD__ ../../alpha/alpha/locore.s ../../alpha/alpha/locore.s: Assembler messages: ../../alpha/alpha/locore.s:84: Error: syntax error ../../alpha/alpha/locore.s:85: Error: Rest of line ignored. First ignored character is `1'. *** Error code 1 Stop. For reference, I have 32megs of ram, a seagate 2gig scsi drive, and the SRM version info is: Multia SRM Console BL5 V3.8-3, built on Aug 10 1995 at 3:22:55 if anyone has any ideas, I'm more the willing to listen David Wimsey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Sep 1 13:04:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15173 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA15136 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:04:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 28511 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Sep 1998 21:05:57 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <13804.2770.473870.7600@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 17:05:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Andrew Gallatin Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Cc: Doug Rabson , freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andrew Gallatin, On 01-Sep-98 you wrote: > > Simon Shapiro writes: > > > > Andrew Gallatin, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > > > > I think you may have more luck if you power-cycle the box. When > I've > > > seen this under NetBSD/alpha, I suspected it was caused by the IDE > > > controller acting as a noise generator, and was able to cure it by > > > disabling the ide controller. > > > > How? > > > > (I think there is a problem we may want to solve here, still) > > > > ... > > Under NetBSD, simply leaving all references to the ide controller out > of the config file did the trick. Under NetBSD, the ide controller > got sort of half-attached -- enough for the isa irq to be enabled, but > no devices on the controller were successfully attached. This should not be the case here, as there is a CD drive attached to the IDE channel 9one of them, at least. I could plug in an IDE hard drive. HAve one rolling in the cabinet. > Doug - Does the ISA code disable all/most interrupts at boot time, or > does it leave things as it found them? I'm worried the console > firmware might be leaving the ide ISA irq enabled on Simon's machine. Is this like IRQ15 on Intel machines? spurious, and all? > > > > > Wow! > > Yeah. Tell me about it. There's another variable I forgot to mention > called dma_prefetch. On a MiataGL you want this on. It increases > the DMA read b/w from ~70MB/sec to ~103MB/sec (for 8k transfers). > (We currently turn this off in cia.c for non-GL miatas, but never turn > it on). I am still amused by computers that have DMA and I/O capacity at 20% of what it needs to be. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Sep 1 14:14:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26112 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:14:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26102 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02122; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:13:05 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:13:05 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: BitS cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel compile under NetBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, BitS wrote: > > > Ok, I have a Multia, the lowend 166 axpci133 board, the generic kernel > from ~dfr lockes directly after loading, I'm using the NetBSD boot loader > to get that far. It loads like so: The Multia support is not currently functional as I have no hardware to test it on. I am going to try to get hold of a Multia this week so hopefully the situation will improve. > > So... since that isn't working, I'm attempting to compile the kernel under > NetBSD, however, make dies with this error: > > cc -c -x assembler-with-cpp -DLOCORE -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. > -I../../../include -DKERNEL -include opt_global.h -U__NetBSD__ > ../../alpha/alpha/locore.s > ../../alpha/alpha/locore.s: Assembler messages: > ../../alpha/alpha/locore.s:84: Error: syntax error > ../../alpha/alpha/locore.s:85: Error: Rest of line ignored. First ignored > character is `1'. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > > > > For reference, I have 32megs of ram, a seagate 2gig scsi drive, and the > SRM version info is: > > Multia SRM Console BL5 V3.8-3, built on Aug 10 1995 at 3:22:55 > > if anyone has any ideas, I'm more the willing to listen That is very strange. Line 84 of locore.s doesn't do anything special. You might have better luck building kernels under NetBSD if you make the FreeBSD make first (just use the Makefile.dist in src/usr.bin/make to build it) and make sure you point it at the FreeBSD make files with -m /whereever/share/mk. Also add 'options __FreeBSD__=3' to your kernel config since some of the drivers depend on the correct definition of __FreeBSD__. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Sep 2 01:48:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA16598 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:48:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA16588 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA04229; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:47:01 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:47:01 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Andrew Gallatin cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: <13804.2770.473870.7600@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Simon Shapiro writes: > > > > Andrew Gallatin, On 31-Aug-98 you wrote: > > > > > I think you may have more luck if you power-cycle the box. When I've > > > seen this under NetBSD/alpha, I suspected it was caused by the IDE > > > controller acting as a noise generator, and was able to cure it by > > > disabling the ide controller. > > > > How? > > > > (I think there is a problem we may want to solve here, still) > > > > ... > > Under NetBSD, simply leaving all references to the ide controller out > of the config file did the trick. Under NetBSD, the ide controller > got sort of half-attached -- enough for the isa irq to be enabled, but > no devices on the controller were successfully attached. > > Doug - Does the ISA code disable all/most interrupts at boot time, or > does it leave things as it found them? I'm worried the console > firmware might be leaving the ide ISA irq enabled on Simon's machine. I don't mask out all the ISA interrupts when I initialise the ISA bus. I think that is probably what is going wrong. The current theory is that booting NetBSD first leaves something enabled (probably the irq) which I can't cope with. I'm having trouble testing this idea this morning since I can't seem to get NetBSD work properly. The GENERIC kernel from 1.3F shows the same slow printing effect as Simon had with FreeBSD. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Sep 2 03:13:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26801 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:13:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA26796 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:13:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA23314; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809020952.CAA23314@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Doug Rabson Cc: Andrew Gallatin , shimon@simon-shapiro.org, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 02:52:26 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:47:01 +0100 (BST) Doug Rabson wrote: > I can't seem to get NetBSD work properly. The GENERIC kernel from 1.3F > shows the same slow printing effect as Simon had with FreeBSD. I believe I fixed this in NetBSD-current (i.e. after that snapshot was made). Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Sep 2 03:22:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27554 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:22:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27549 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (herring.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.2]) by nlsystems.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA04535; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:18:34 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:18:34 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Jason Thorpe cc: Andrew Gallatin , shimon@simon-shapiro.org, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: <199809020952.CAA23314@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:47:01 +0100 (BST) > Doug Rabson wrote: > > > I can't seem to get NetBSD work properly. The GENERIC kernel from 1.3F > > shows the same slow printing effect as Simon had with FreeBSD. > > I believe I fixed this in NetBSD-current (i.e. after that snapshot > was made). Do you recall what the fix was? I'm not on the NetBSD commit mailing list and (obviously) don't have cvs access so its hard to track this kind of thing. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 Fax: +44 181 381 1039 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Sep 2 05:53:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12657 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:53:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12642 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gallatin@duke.cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02373; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23977; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:52:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gallatin) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:52:34 -0400 (EDT) To: Doug Rabson Cc: Jason Thorpe , freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! In-Reply-To: References: <199809020952.CAA23314@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13805.16197.960986.277274@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If its what I was seeing, you should be able to work around it by building yourself a kernel with the IDE interfaces disabled. Drew Doug Rabson writes: > On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Jason Thorpe wrote: > > > On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:47:01 +0100 (BST) > > Doug Rabson wrote: > > > > > I can't seem to get NetBSD work properly. The GENERIC kernel from 1.3F > > > shows the same slow printing effect as Simon had with FreeBSD. > > > > I believe I fixed this in NetBSD-current (i.e. after that snapshot > > was made). > > Do you recall what the fix was? I'm not on the NetBSD commit mailing list > and (obviously) don't have cvs access so its hard to track this kind of > thing. > > -- > Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com > Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 951 1891 > Fax: +44 181 381 1039 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Sep 2 10:22:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27610 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27602 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:22:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA27423; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809021702.KAA27423@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: Doug Rabson , freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alpha Install - oops! Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:02:30 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Andrew Gallatin wrote: > If its what I was seeing, you should be able to work around it by > building yourself a kernel with the IDE interfaces disabled. Hm... Someone reported to me a similar problem on a 164SX, and the fix was definitely something different :-)... in any case, disabling the IDE is clearly the wrong thing to do. I'd like to confirm that it is indeed fixed on the Miata (IIRC, it was reported fixed on the 164SX, but I'd like a sanity check). I'll build a new NetBSD kernel today and post here where it will be available for download. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Sep 4 14:08:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05380 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05363 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 16958 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Sep 1998 22:10:25 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:10:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Help - No htonq, ntohq Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can anyone suggest a clean, portable way to support binary competability on 64bit integers between an Alpha and IA? We have hton{l,s} but these are good only for 16 & 32 bit values. What is the exact Alpha byte order? 12345678, 87654321, 43218765, ... Thanx! Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Sep 4 15:15:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15405 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:15:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15394 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:15:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA12990; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:27:42 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199809042227.IAA12990@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Help - No htonq, ntohq In-Reply-To: from Simon Shapiro at "Sep 4, 98 06:10:25 pm" To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:27:40 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Simon Shapiro wrote: > Can anyone suggest a clean, portable way to support binary competability on > 64bit integers between an Alpha and IA? int64_t & u_int64_t > We have hton{l,s} but these are good only for 16 & 32 bit values. I think hton{l,s} should be kept strictly for _network_ code. > What is the exact Alpha byte order? 12345678, 87654321, 43218765, ... ^^^^^^^^ Little endian. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sat Sep 5 08:19:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01240 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01234 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA18444; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:17:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA19956; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:17:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980905171747.45786@follo.net> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:17:47 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: John Birrell , shimon@simon-shapiro.org Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Help - No htonq, ntohq References: <199809042227.IAA12990@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199809042227.IAA12990@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sat, Sep 05, 1998 at 08:27:40AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Sep 05, 1998 at 08:27:40AM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Simon Shapiro wrote: > > Can anyone suggest a clean, portable way to support binary competability on > > 64bit integers between an Alpha and IA? > > int64_t & u_int64_t > > > We have hton{l,s} but these are good only for 16 & 32 bit values. > > I think hton{l,s} should be kept strictly for _network_ code. I think Simon is working on sharing binary data between Intel and Alpha (running with shared disk). Saying 'strictly for network code' doesn't help solve the problem at all. May I suggest the introduction of hton16s(l,s) ntoh16s(l,s) hton16u(l,s) ntoh16u(l,s) hton32s(l,s) ntoh32s(l,s) hton32u(l,s) ntoh32u(l,s) hton64s(l,s) ntoh64s(l,s) hton64u(l,s) ntoh64u(l,s) as a much more clear way of handling the naming? (I placed the sign-indicator after the number of bits, to avoid confusion with htons()). This also give a clear answer to the question 'what should I use for 64-bit' :-) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sat Sep 5 11:00:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24789 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:00:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA24782 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 1274 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Sep 1998 19:03:02 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199809042227.IAA12990@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 15:03:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: John Birrell Subject: Re: Help - No htonq, ntohq Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Birrell, On 04-Sep-98 you wrote: > Simon Shapiro wrote: > > Can anyone suggest a clean, portable way to support binary > > competability on > > 64bit integers between an Alpha and IA? > > int64_t & u_int64_t These give source compatability. I need binary compatability. Let me expand; I am working on a new High Availability, large scale file server. The entire server stores all numeric data as 64bit quantities (the decision to do so is a bit outside the scope of this note :-). Part of the HAS concept is integral support for clustering. I.E. Multiple nodes/hosts can concurrently access the same physical filesystem. To ensure portability, I need to store these values in a universal format. > > We have hton{l,s} but these are good only for 16 & 32 bit values. > > I think hton{l,s} should be kept strictly for _network_ code. See my comment above. You can view my need as a network need :-) > > What is the exact Alpha byte order? 12345678, 87654321, 43218765, ... > ^^^^^^^^ > Little endian. Thanx! Gone are the VAX orders, then... Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sat Sep 5 11:03:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25057 for freebsd-alpha-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:03:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomis.simon-shapiro.org (nomis.simon-shapiro.org [209.86.126.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25050 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shimon@simon-shapiro.org) Received: (qmail 1314 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Sep 1998 19:05:57 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980905171747.45786@follo.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 15:05:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Face: (&r=uR0&yvh>h^ZL4"-TH61PD}/|Y'~58Z# Gz&BK'&uLAf:2wLb~L7YcWfau{;N(#LR2)\i.l8'ZqVhv~$rNx$]Om6Sv36S'\~5m/U'"i/L)&t$R0&?,)tm0l5xZ!\hZU^yMyCdt!KTcQ376cCkQ^Q_n.GH;Dd-q+ O51^+.K-1Kq?WsP9;cw-Ki+b.iY-5@3!YB5{I$h;E][Xlg*sPO61^5=:5k)JdGet,M|$"lq!1!j_>? $0Yc? Reply-To: shimon@simon-shapiro.org Organization: The Simon Shapiro Foundation From: Simon Shapiro To: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: Help - No htonq, ntohq Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, John Birrell Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund, On 05-Sep-98 you wrote: > On Sat, Sep 05, 1998 at 08:27:40AM +1000, John Birrell wrote: > > Simon Shapiro wrote: > > > Can anyone suggest a clean, portable way to support binary > > > competability on > > > 64bit integers between an Alpha and IA? > > > > int64_t & u_int64_t > > > > > We have hton{l,s} but these are good only for 16 & 32 bit values. > > > > I think hton{l,s} should be kept strictly for _network_ code. > > I think Simon is working on sharing binary data between Intel and > Alpha (running with shared disk). Saying 'strictly for network code' > doesn't help solve the problem at all. May I suggest the introduction > of > > hton16s(l,s) ntoh16s(l,s) > hton16u(l,s) ntoh16u(l,s) > hton32s(l,s) ntoh32s(l,s) > hton32u(l,s) ntoh32u(l,s) > hton64s(l,s) ntoh64s(l,s) > hton64u(l,s) ntoh64u(l,s) > > as a much more clear way of handling the naming? (I placed the > sign-indicator after the number of bits, to avoid confusion with > htons()). This also give a clear answer to the question 'what should > I use for 64-bit' :-) > > Eivind. Thanx! Am I to understand that what I want does not exist? I saw a reference to something in /usr/include/nfs/xdr_subs.h but am not clear what value it has. I'd rather have some concensus first. Simon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message