From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 00:43:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19347 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 00:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19318 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 00:43:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-1-157.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.157]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id AAA17752 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 00:43:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:04:54 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd8c62$eae67f60$LocalHost@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org free windows 98. -FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 02:00:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA25266 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:00:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic46.pm02.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25127; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:59:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id BAA05351; Sun, 31 May 1998 01:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980531015955.A5337@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 01:59:55 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Creating a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am putting together a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD. This information will be included on the Retail Outlet web page. http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html The information that is most helpful is the store name, location (city, state), phone number, web or email address. Look at the web page then send me what ever information you might have. Thanks Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 02:53:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA29513 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29498 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 02:53:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsdchat@shadows.aeon.net) Received: (from bsdchat@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id MAA11624 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:57:30 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199805310957.MAA11624@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD mailing lists with high latency In-Reply-To: <19980523123204.P339@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "May 23, 98 12:32:04 pm" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 12:57:30 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I'm now since Aug '96 on various freebsd-* mailing list and I see the > > latency between sending the mail and getting it back via the list > hub sends the messages to a number of different relays rather than > directly to each recipient. Some of these relays can be slow. To also what i've noticed about the issue is that my home server gets too often one of these: (or somethign alike) May 31 10:11:21 shadows sendmail[10327]: NOQUEUE: timeout waiting for input from HUB.FreeBSD.ORG during server cmd read sure, it's probably beccause i'm in finland, and because my line to the world from here is now just 57600, until i get my ADSL which will speed up things very much (3.1Mbps/1.1Mbps in teory), tomorrow actually. does all of those different hub-machines return 'hub' or am i being fed from the same machine always? since it might also be a problem from one/few of those hubs if they all report themselves as 'hub'. anyway, if i keep getting those timeouts after my line upgrade, i'll get back into the issue. coz if where i'm working i should also be backed up with the adequate international bandwidths... =) oh, another thought, where exactly are explained what one have to do to put up a cvsup-mirror site? i'm _finally_ about to put up what i've wanted to do for years, cvsup.fi.freebsd.org, since no one else in this country seems to be enough interested in provinding that. how much disk space should i reserve for it? i'd also be very interested in hearing on which hardware different people run their cvsup-mirrors. (disks, cpu, ram, what else the machine does) (this probably might go into somewhere else than chat but here it is anyway, i guess enough people get to read this from here too...) mickey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 03:31:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05166 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 03:31:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cwb.hk.super.net (cwb.hk.super.net [202.14.67.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA05052 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 03:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bird@FFFF.com) Received: from kwaifong.hk.super.net (root@kwaifong.hk.super.net [202.14.67.7]) by cwb.hk.super.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15493 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:30:46 +0800 (HKT) Received: from FFFF.com (ppp105.netfront.net [202.81.253.105]) by kwaifong.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18767 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 18:30:44 +0800 (HKT) Message-ID: <35713151.BD66F00B@FFFF.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:30:42 +0800 From: "It's a Bird" Organization: / FFFF / X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: . Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ./.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 03:42:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06497 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 03:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06439 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 03:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsdchat@shadows.aeon.net) Received: (from bsdchat@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.8/8.8.3) id NAA12031 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:45:52 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199805311045.NAA12031@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long when... In-Reply-To: <356C2BAC.6AF97154@plutotech.com> from Sean Kelly at "May 27, 98 09:05:16 am" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 13:45:52 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > [ ... odd keyboard interactions ... ] > Later, I'll return to my desk and attempt to drag the note away with the > mouse. For some reason, it doesn't work. hmm, i've done too many of these. =) 1. few years ago when i was living on irc, way past 10 hrs a day on the days i didnt bother to do anything else, i once seriously thought of kickbanning someone in real life (after which i've cut off my irc into less than an hour per day average). 2. too many times i've watched(or been) out and thought the display has an excellent color depth and a remarkable refresh rate. and i mean this have happened multiple, way past 10, times. 3. when i've had two monitors next to eachothers, i've tried to cut&paste from one to another and failed, then i've retried and realizes what i were doing... 4. i have a tv next to my monitor, i've tried to use keyboard/mouse to change the channels and remote control to change screens/windows, several times. since i'm about to install a hauppage card, i'm sure i get more variations of this in the future... 5. i've read a book and attempted to cut&paste from the pages into my editor, multiple times this one too. it feels so stupid each time. i'm sure that wasnt all of i've done, rest i cant recall... quite normal thing is that i've picked the habit of talking while people talk to me in real life, something i've too learned from irc. it seems to annoy many people, while i dont often even realize. since it's relatively easy to listen and speak at the same time and be aware of both. anyway it's something i have to often explain to them... (i think the "outside" society thinks such a behaviour to be very rude actually) mickey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 09:07:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08795 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 09:07:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.realtime.net (mail1.realtime.net [205.238.128.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA08763 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 09:07:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jktheowl@bga.com) Received: (qmail 30536 invoked from network); 31 May 1998 16:06:54 -0000 Received: from zoom.realtime.net (HELO zoom.bga.com) (root@205.238.128.40) by mail1.realtime.net with SMTP; 31 May 1998 16:06:54 -0000 Received: from barnowl (apm5-173.realtime.net [205.238.146.173]) by zoom.bga.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA11700; Sun, 31 May 1998 11:06:51 -0500 Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:13:54 -0500 (CDT) From: John Kenagy X-Sender: jktheowl@barnowl To: Josef Grosch cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Creating a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19980531015955.A5337@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 31 May 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > I am putting together a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD. This > information will be included on the Retail Outlet web page. > > http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html > > The information that is most helpful is the store name, location (city, > state), phone number, web or email address. Look at the web page then send > me what ever information you might have. > > Thanks > > > Josef Josef Here are a few more that I've checked out (with comment). They are just the urls but they should be easy to find locally. Borders Books www.BordersStores.com -- a site with a directory of local stores the Austin, Tx store has 2.2.5 with Greg's book. Barnes and Noble - no stock but will order from their warehouse www.barnesandnoble.com -- main site - you can order on line www.bkstore.com -- B & N college book stores listing Bookpeople - Local to Austin, TX www.bookpeople.com -- stock 2.2.5 w/Greg's book and a vary complete O'Reilly stock John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 11:23:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25127 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 11:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25096; Sun, 31 May 1998 11:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01091; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:22:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19980531142248.21445@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:22:48 -0400 From: Lee Cremeans To: John Kenagy Cc: Josef Grosch , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Creating a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <19980531015955.A5337@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from John Kenagy on Sun, May 31, 1998 at 11:13:54AM -0500 X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE (soon to be 3.0-CURRENT) X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, May 31, 1998 at 11:13:54AM -0500, John Kenagy wrote: > > > On Sun, 31 May 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > > I am putting together a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD. This > > information will be included on the Retail Outlet web page. > > > > http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html > > > > The information that is most helpful is the store name, location (city, > > state), phone number, web or email address. Look at the web page then send > > me what ever information you might have. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Josef > > Josef > > Here are a few more that I've checked out (with comment). They are > just the urls but they should be easy to find locally. > > Borders Books > > www.BordersStores.com -- a site with a directory of local stores > the Austin, Tx store has 2.2.5 with Greg's book. > > Barnes and Noble - no stock but will order from their warehouse > > www.barnesandnoble.com -- main site - you can order on line > www.bkstore.com -- B & N college book stores listing > > Bookpeople - Local to Austin, TX > > www.bookpeople.com -- stock 2.2.5 w/Greg's book and a vary complete > O'Reilly stock > Micro Center - nationwide, mostly Eastern I think Vienna, VA store has the 4-CD set, but not Greg's book. www.microcenter.com, but no online ordering. -- Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | lcremean@tidalwave.net FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) My home page: http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net/~lee | finger me for geek code To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 11:25:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25483 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 11:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25380 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id LAA10426 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 11:24:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:24:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long when... In-Reply-To: <199805311045.NAA12031@shadows.aeon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I say "ROFL" to others and they go "huh?" .. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 12:20:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02773 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02760 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:20:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no (skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.65.2]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with SMTP id VAA03433; Sun, 31 May 1998 21:20:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (dag-erli@localhost) by skejdbrimir.ifi.uio.no ; Sun, 31 May 1998 19:20:03 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 To: mika ruohotie Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD mailing lists with high latency References: <199805310957.MAA11624@shadows.aeon.net> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-email-address-1: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (for private or study-related mail) X-email-address-2: dagsm@hypnotech.no (for job-related mail) X-email-address-3: des@FreeBSD.org (for FreeBSD-related mail) X-email-address-4: finrod@ewox.org (for demoscene-related mail) X-disclaimer-1: I speak only for myself. The views expressed in this message X-disclaimer-2: are not those of the University of Oslo, the FreeBSD project, X-disclaimer-3: or any other organization or company to which I am or have at X-disclaimer-4: some time been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 31 May 1998 21:19:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: mika ruohotie's message of "Sun, 31 May 1998 12:57:30 +0300 (EET DST)" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org mika ruohotie writes: > oh, another thought, where exactly are explained what one have to do > to put up a cvsup-mirror site? i'm _finally_ about to put up what i've > wanted to do for years, cvsup.fi.freebsd.org, since no one else in this > country seems to be enough interested in provinding that. # cd /usr/ports/net/cvsup-mirror # make > how much disk space should i reserve for it? 600 MB should be fine for now. The repository is ~450 MB. The best place to put the repository is probably /home/ncvs since that's where it is on freefall. -- Noone else has a .sig like this one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 13:51:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19392 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19147; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (dialB04.aei.ca [206.123.6.88]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14649; Sun, 31 May 1998 16:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3571C268.4C33042F@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 16:49:44 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lcremean@tidalwave.net CC: John Kenagy , Josef Grosch , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Creating a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD References: <19980531015955.A5337@mooseriver.com> <19980531142248.21445@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lee Cremeans wrote: > On Sun, May 31, 1998 at 11:13:54AM -0500, John Kenagy wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 31 May 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > > > > I am putting together a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD. This > > > information will be included on the Retail Outlet web page. > > > > > > http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html > > > > > > The information that is most helpful is the store name, location (city, > > > state), phone number, web or email address. Look at the web page then send > > > me what ever information you might have. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > Josef > > > > Josef > > > > Here are a few more that I've checked out (with comment). They are > > just the urls but they should be easy to find locally. > > > > Borders Books > > > > www.BordersStores.com -- a site with a directory of local stores > > the Austin, Tx store has 2.2.5 with Greg's book. > > > > Barnes and Noble - no stock but will order from their warehouse > > > > www.barnesandnoble.com -- main site - you can order on line > > www.bkstore.com -- B & N college book stores listing > > > > Bookpeople - Local to Austin, TX > > > > www.bookpeople.com -- stock 2.2.5 w/Greg's book and a vary complete > > O'Reilly stock > > > > Micro Center - nationwide, mostly Eastern I think > > Vienna, VA store has the 4-CD set, but not Greg's book. > www.microcenter.com, but no online ordering. > > -- > Lee C. -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet #watertower) > A! JW223 YWD+++^ri P&B++ SL+++^i GDF B&M KK--i MD+++i P++ I++++ Did > $++ E5/10/70/3c/73ac/95/96 H2 PonPippi Ay77 M | lcremean@tidalwave.net > FreeBSD/Linux/Unix hacker...Win95 and M$ evil! (go see www.freebsd.org) > My home page: http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net/~lee | finger me for geek code > -- -------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 13:59:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21354 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:59:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21245; Sun, 31 May 1998 13:58:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (dialB04.aei.ca [206.123.6.88]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15253; Sun, 31 May 1998 16:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3571C436.D958D2B8@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 16:57:27 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lcremean@tidalwave.net CC: John Kenagy , Josef Grosch , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Creating a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD References: <19980531015955.A5337@mooseriver.com> <19980531142248.21445@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lee Cremeans wrote: > On Sun, May 31, 1998 at 11:13:54AM -0500, John Kenagy wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 31 May 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > > > > I am putting together a list of retail outlets for FreeBSD. This > > > information will be included on the Retail Outlet web page. > > > > > > http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html > > > > > > The information that is most helpful is the store name, location (city, > > > state), phone number, web or email address. Look at the web page then send > > > me what ever information you might have. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > Josef > > > > Josef > > > > Here are a few more that I've checked out (with comment). They are > > just the urls but they should be easy to find locally. > > > > Borders Books > > > > www.BordersStores.com -- a site with a directory of local stores > > the Austin, Tx store has 2.2.5 with Greg's book. > > > > Barnes and Noble - no stock but will order from their warehouse > > > > www.barnesandnoble.com -- main site - you can order on line > > www.bkstore.com -- B & N college book stores listing > > > > Bookpeople - Local to Austin, TX > > > > www.bookpeople.com -- stock 2.2.5 w/Greg's book and a vary complete > > O'Reilly stock > > > > Micro Center - nationwide, mostly Eastern I think > > Vienna, VA store has the 4-CD set, but not Greg's book. > www.microcenter.com, but no online ordering. > http://www.camelot.ca/ 1191, Place Phillips, Montréal, Quebec, Canada, H3B 3C9 (514) 861-5019 1, Place Ville-Marie, Montréal, Quebec Canada, H3B 3Y1 (514) 861-7400 Place de la Cité, Sainte-Foy, Quebec, Canada, G1V 4T3 (418) 653-8888 -- -------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 14:41:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26299 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (root@bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA26231 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 14:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from const. (tulip9.verinet.com [199.45.181.201]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id PAA22432 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 15:40:17 -0600 Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25499 for chat@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 31 May 1998 15:40:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:40:43 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199805312140.PAA25499@const.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Can someone explain this nonsense? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Why does the trade press get all gushy when NT manages to acquire functionality that server operating systems have had for years? I'm sorry for posting this; it doesn't relate directly to FreeBSD, but sometimes this crap gets to me. Case in point: http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19980529S0026 Oracle database clustering software has been in use for years on many platforms. Yet Oracle releases a limited functionality version for NT and look out; the trade press starts writing articles. I guess the author values his own credibility enough that he couldn't close the article without pointing out the following (quoted from the aforementioned article by Rick Levin, InformationWeek, reprinted by CMPNet); Still, the products are not the equal of Oracle's clustering software for Unix, which is capable of running across dozens of database servers. "There's a gap between the requirements Oracle can handle on NT and what they can tackle with Unix databases," says Mitch Kramer, an analyst with the Patricia Seybold Group. Still, Kramer added, Oracle's clustering software goes beyond Microsoft's own Cluster Server, which is limited to two NT servers. BTW, How do you limit your distributed system to two servers and get away with calling it a 'cluster'? -- Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 15:15:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02470 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 15:15:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic11.pm02.san-mateo.best.com [205.149.174.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02383 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 15:15:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA12060; Sun, 31 May 1998 15:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980531151452.C11196@mooseriver.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 15:14:52 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: allen campbell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can someone explain this nonsense? Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199805312140.PAA25499@const.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199805312140.PAA25499@const.>; from allen campbell on Sun, May 31, 1998 at 03:40:43PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, May 31, 1998 at 03:40:43PM -0600, allen campbell wrote: > Why does the trade press get all gushy when NT manages to acquire > functionality that server operating systems have had for years? I can answer that in one word, Baaaaa! The trade press have turned into sheep being herded around by barking dogs. If you remember back to Bill's NT demo in New York 18 months ago, he stood up on stage and said, "This NT system is doing a million transactions per second". Not one of the sheep stood up and said, "Excuse me, Mr. Gates, What's a transaction?" > I'm sorry for posting this; it doesn't relate directly to FreeBSD, > but sometimes this crap gets to me. Case in point: > > http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19980529S0026 > [ DELETED ] Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 31 20:14:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16369 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:14:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16352 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25423 for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 20:14:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806010314.UAA25423@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DOJ Vs. Microsoft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:14:13 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If you like , Vote! http://www.zdnet.com/pccomp/epetition/ The Antitrust Case of the Century The Department of Justice, along with 20 states, is currently attempting to block the release of Windows 98, alleging that Bill Gates and Microsoft Corp. are engaging in anticompetitive business practices. At the center of this controversy is Microsoft's decision to bundle its Internet Explorer Web browser with the operating system. Join the debate and make your voice heard: I agree with the DoJ and want to sign the petition in support of their case. I agree with Microsoft and want to sign the petition in defense of their case. Need More Information? Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 10:22:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15899 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:22:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pobox.com ([208.141.230.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15819; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by pobox.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA14047; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:22:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:22:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806011722.MAA14047@pobox.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG CC: eivind@yes.no Subject: Re: TenDRA/XANDF to the rescue? (Re: Fix for undefined...) X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ redirected to chat ] Quoth Eivind Eklund : > java byte code can't express e.g. C. This also answer the rest of > your post (which I've deleted). Bzzt. C can compile to JVM perfectly correctly, thank you. The JVM is not well adapted to this purpose, and constructing a back-end which produced efficient code from JBC which expresses typical C pointer arithematic &c would be a very challenging task. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 11:06:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA25961 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:06:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25946 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:05:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29269; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:05:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199806011805.LAA29269@kithrup.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TenDRA/XANDF to the rescue? (Re: Fix for undefined...) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <199806011722.MAA14047.kithrup.freebsd.chat@pobox.com> you write: >Bzzt. C can compile to JVM perfectly correctly, thank you. Uh, I'd really like to know how, given that the JVM has something that only vaguely resembles pointers... It does have member offsets into objects, which kinda can do the same thing, but it's a lot more restrictive than most C compilers allow you to get away with. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 11:08:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26554 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:08:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26475 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22162; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:07:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806011807.MAA22162@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:07:52 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: TenDRA/XANDF to the rescue? (Re: Fix for undefined...) In-Reply-To: <199806011805.LAA29269@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It can do it. Ever hear of "Turing equivalence?" ;-) --Brett At 11:05 AM 6/1/98 -0700, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: >In article <199806011722.MAA14047.kithrup.freebsd.chat@pobox.com> you write: >>Bzzt. C can compile to JVM perfectly correctly, thank you. > >Uh, I'd really like to know how, given that the JVM has something that only >vaguely resembles pointers... > >It does have member offsets into objects, which kinda can do the same thing, >but it's a lot more restrictive than most C compilers allow you to get away >with. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 13:56:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02233 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:56:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02106 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:56:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25615; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:55:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199806012055.OAA25615@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Can someone explain this nonsense? In-Reply-To: <199805312140.PAA25499@const.> from allen campbell at "May 31, 98 03:40:43 pm" To: allenc@verinet.com (allen campbell) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > BTW, How do you limit your distributed system to two servers and > get away with calling it a 'cluster'? By basing it on Dave Cutler's brainchild, which is known as "FusterCluck" (tm) technology. Did I spell that write? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 18:34:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01761 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:34:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01587 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:33:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/05/18 5.10)) id VAA13141; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:33:13 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts001d17.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.29]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.8.8) id VAA09318; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000501bd8dc7$0bb10200$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "Brian Tao" Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:51:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Erm... "doing illegal things" is illegal, whether or not you're a >monopoly... ;-) >-- >Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) >"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" > True enough....but what illegal act has been done? All I hear is how MS is making too much money and has too much market share. How about something that is against the law? I have not heard anything from the DOJ that seems to hold much water. But I do see the need for an investigation....but I have not seen anything worth prosecuting yet. Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 18:45:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA03979 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:45:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03959 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:45:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28418; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:41:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806020141.TAA28418@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:40:54 -0600 To: "Jason" , "Brian Tao" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" In-Reply-To: <000501bd8dc7$0bb10200$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:51 PM 6/1/98 -0400, Jason wrote: >True enough....but what illegal act has been done? All I hear is how MS is >making too much money and has too much market share. Are you intentionally dense, or what? There are none so deaf as those who will not listen. Or read. See the DOJ's complaint, to which numerous members of this list have linked. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 19:33:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14178 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:33:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14052; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:32:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/04/23 5.10)) id WAA28931; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:32:27 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts001d17.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.29]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.8) id WAA15059; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000c01bd8dcf$55179f00$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: , , , , Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:55:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > using their OS monopoly to push their browser. > gateway recently announced that MS will allow > gateway to ship computer with the netscape browser. This I totally agree with. If this can be proven in court then MS ought to be fined for this. > gateway should not need nor seek MS's allowance or > approval when installing another company's software > on gateway computers. Absoltely! > it is illegal to use a monopoly in one area to push > your product in another. a browser aint part of the > OS. one can make a browser the sole interface to the > OS, but it aint part of the OS. Well...it has been a part of this OS since 1995. No one has complained then. And if MS wants to give away a free OS and intregrate it into their OS then let them. Nothing stopping Netscape or any others from doing the same. BTW....thanks for getting serious on this....many others just want to whine and make personal attacks rather than discuss the issues. Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 21:21:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03426 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org (mph@usr233.third-wave.com [147.72.122.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03038 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:19:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16328; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:19:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980602001921.B16221@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:19:21 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Dima Dorfman Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HELP! no shell Mail-Followup-To: Dima Dorfman , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <000701bd8db8$a3243580$0a22a10a@ipo10161034010.nbtel.net> <199806020316.XAA17318@nwalme.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806020316.XAA17318@nwalme.pair.com>; from Dima Dorfman on Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 11:16:57PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 11:16:57PM -0400, Dima Dorfman wrote: > BTW, I've never seen BASH in /bin/bash, it's always in > /usr/local/bin/bash, or /usr/bin/bash. Lucky bastard. Never used Linux, eh? -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 1 23:26:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26422 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26413 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:26:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (root@[10.1.140.1]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id IAA22519; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:26:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by pc8811.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11546; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:26:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199805312140.PAA25499@const.> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 08:26:53 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: allen campbell Subject: RE: Can someone explain this nonsense? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 31-May-98 allen campbell wrote: > BTW, How do you limit your distributed system to two servers and > get away with calling it a 'cluster'? Oh, that's simple. You see, there is absolutely no given rule that says how small a group of computers still could be called a cluster. Thus, I'm writing this on a FreeBSD cluster, albeit of the size 1. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 02:39:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20673 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:39:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20661 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:38:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA00392 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:38:58 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:38:58 +0200 (MEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199806020938.LAA00392@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: yahoo/netscape Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone knowing the story behind the fact that netscape isn't offering Yahoo! in their search engine chooser? Is there any politics behind it? -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 04:15:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04645 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:15:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04640 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:15:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-1-142.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.142]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id EAA13339; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:15:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: Cc: "Jason" Subject: you can talk the talk, can you walk the walk? Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:05:28 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd8e16$5a0f0380$8e01aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Erm... "doing illegal things" is illegal, whether or not you're a >>monopoly... ;-) >>-- >>Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) >>"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" >> >True enough....but what illegal act has been done? All I hear is how MS is >making too much money and has too much market share. How about something >that is against the law? is there one ld on this list? does joe siino have email? [wanted: some lawyers on this list - advertise in some lawyer forums. i'm collecting these email addresses, btw. i have lessig and a couple. 20 state's attorney's. you want to try to drill down to the people that actually read stuff instead of throwing spam away. is or is it not illegal to control 100% market share in many critical markets? all office secretaries use windows, except for archaic companies. i remember a time when you choose your operating system when you bought your computer. cpm and /quarterdeck/ or msdos and dr dos and os/2. there were arguments about which os was better. this is a pretty critical ap for now when the only choice is upgrade or not. unix flavors .3 macintosh 3 amiga .01 os/2 .01 windows31 45 windows95 51 these are my marketshare statistics. [wanted: poll what police departments use as general user terminals. (100% win95) "what OS does their word processor run on?" at least 10 people per sample is statistically significant. >I have not heard anything from the DOJ that seems to hold much water. But I >do see the need for an investigation....but I have not seen anything worth >prosecuting yet. the whole browser thing is pretty nonsense. (i prefer explorer.) oh yeah, there are five other browser companies. how come they aren't in the lawsuites or anywhere? MS can't have a monopoly on this critical segment of our economy. it's like a monopoly on steel or railroads. not good for the economy or the industry. it's not good for the economy because it retards innovation and it's not good for the industry because there Are better OS's, in fact, almost all the other ones are better. apple was better until recently, then FreeBSD is better. who thinks MS general utility products don't suck? anyone forced to use them that has [long bug lists? software downloaded recently from MS's web site? most of their cash flow goes to loyalty - high salaries and marketing of their second and third rate products. the issue isn't the browser, it's the os. -jack free windows 98 -FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 07:00:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28796 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:00:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA28346 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 06:57:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ygrYe-0007Pr-00; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:56:56 +0200 Subject: Grammatical issues To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:56:56 +0200 (SAT) X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc X-URL: http://www.cityip.co.za/~wjv/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Johann Visagie Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A while ago there was a discussion about the usage of _its_ and _it's_ in some source comments. Today, fortune(6) gave me the following: It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's. It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs. -- Oxford University Press, Edpress News -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 19:07:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29854 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:07:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29841 for chat; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:07:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199806030207.TAA29841@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: USENIX--who's coming to New Orleans June 15th To: chat Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:07:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org USENIX this year will be in New Orleans. tutorials begin on June 15th. tech conference begins on June 17th. who all i coming and when? i plan to be in New Orleans starting sunday night, june 14th till sunday noon, june 21st. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 19:36:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04030 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:36:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (ted@cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03735 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:35:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ted@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from ted@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19486; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980602223529.25544@cheddar.netmonger.net> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:35:29 -0400 From: Ted Stein To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Palm III Reply-To: ted@taki.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cheddar.netmonger.net 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm thinking of purchasing a PalmPilot (the Palm III, specifically), and I was wondering if anyone could give me an opinion (also FreeBSD compatibility). Please reply to me directly, as I don't want to clutter the list with irrelevance. -- Ted Stein ted@taki.net CGI/Backend taki solutions, inc. http://www.taki.net PGP available upon request To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 19:51:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06918 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:51:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06818 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:50:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (minbar-1-149.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.136.151]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id VAA28261 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:50:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA04032 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:50:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980603025049.ZM4031@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:50:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: Ted Stein "Palm III" (Jun 2, 10:35pm) References: <19980602223529.25544@cheddar.netmonger.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NT and Security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check this out. http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/news/0601/02awinnt.html >From zdnet the great M$ shill. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 20:05:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08002 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:05:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA07982 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:05:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/05/18 5.10)) id XAA18362; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:05:08 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts004d02.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.86]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.8) id XAA02879; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:05:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001001bd8e9d$13b9df40$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "Brian Tao" , "Brett Glass" Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:09:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >There are none so deaf as those who will not listen. Or read. See the DOJ's >complaint, to which numerous members of this list have linked. > >--Brett Glass > Come on now folks....I said serious replies only...leave your personal attacks for your mother-in-law :) Now...maybe I might live out in the boonies here and miss news from time to time....but all I have ever heard from the DOJ is a bunch of vague and irrelevant junk about how its unfair that no one can compete with IE4 and other MS products. Is it against the law for a company to make a popular product? Anyhow...it might be that the only news I get here is NBC....and we all know who owns them :) Well...what I asked before was specifics...If you are not able to converse with me on a mature level then please don't bother. I say again....Serious Replies Only Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 20:18:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09540 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:18:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09515 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:18:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16148; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806030317.VAA16148@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:17:49 -0600 To: "Jason" , "Brian Tao" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" In-Reply-To: <001001bd8e9d$13b9df40$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:09 PM 6/2/98 -0400, Jason wrote: >Come on now folks....I said serious replies only...leave your personal >attacks for your mother-in-law :) > >Now...maybe I might live out in the boonies here and miss news from time to >time....but all I have ever heard from the DOJ is a bunch of vague and >irrelevant junk about how its unfair that no one can compete with IE4 and >other MS products. Is it against the law for a company to make a popular >product? > >Anyhow...it might be that the only news I get here is NBC....and we all know >who owns them :) > >Well...what I asked before was specifics...If you are not able to converse >with me on a mature level then please don't bother. > >I say again....Serious Replies Only I'm quite serious. You, on the other hand, are making excuses to ignore what people in this newsgroup are saying. And since you're clearly connected to the Internet, "living out in the boonies" is no excuse for your ignorance. Hmmm.... Didn't Microsoft recently launch a so-called "grass roots" campaign in which it planned to plant supportive messages in newsgroups and on mailing lists? What have you received from Microsoft to be part of this campaign? --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 21:30:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18322 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18287; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28437; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:30:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199806030430.VAA28437@kithrup.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... Newsgroups: kithrup.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199806030131.SAA19220.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@implode.root.com> References: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:20:16 PDT." <199806030020.RAA04610@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <199806030131.SAA19220.kithrup.freebsd.hackers@implode.root.com> you write: > You are being sarcastic. If you want to discuss this rationally with me, >then please leave out the sarcasm, otherwise I will not respond. No. I was being hyperbolic. There is a difference. You were the one who said "only files in the filesystem." /dev/stdin (aka /dev/fd/0) is not a file. It is not even a device. It is, instead, a file-system interface to a process' structure. Therefore, I have to assume you want it gone. Did you not notice the Reply-To? This does not belong in hackers. It belongs in chat at this point, since it has to do with philosophy, not code. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 22:13:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23435 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:13:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23419 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:13:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03334; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:12:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806030512.WAA03334@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jason" cc: "Brian Tao" , "Brett Glass" , "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:09:49 EDT." <001001bd8e9d$13b9df40$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:12:46 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Jason, You may find this interesting: Franklin M. Fisher discusses the economics of competition and monopoly By Lynda Radosevich InfoWorld Electric The Department of Justice included with its antitrust filings a declaration from Franklin M. Fisher, professor of economics at Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Mass. Fisher also served as IBM's chief economic witness in the 1970s. http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?/interviews/980601fisher.htm * W. Brian Arthur: Santa Fe Institute economist says existing antitrust doctrines need new guidelines to address monopolistic action. --------------- http://www.infoworld.com/scoop/sc?980603iv1 Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 23:14:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02000 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:14:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01988 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:14:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.0/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id IAA26330 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:14:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.9.0.Beta4/keltia-2.14/nospam) id HAA09380 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:56:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto) Message-ID: <19980603075649.A9370@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:56:49 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX--who's coming to New Orleans June 15th Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <199806030207.TAA29841@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.3i In-Reply-To: <199806030207.TAA29841@hub.freebsd.org>; from Jonathan M. Bresler on Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 07:07:32PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#4311 AMD-K6 MMX @ 225 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Jonathan M. Bresler: > who all i coming and when? > > i plan to be in New Orleans starting sunday night, june 14th > till sunday noon, june 21st. Same here with a friend of mine. New Orleans will probably be one of the largest gathering of FreeBSD folks ever. More core team members in one place we've seen too. Even Mark (Murray) is coming from South Africa... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #60: Fri May 15 21:04:22 CEST 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 2 23:31:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04063 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04044 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:30:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tg@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA02098; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tg@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA05026; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:30:54 +0200 (CEST) To: Ollivier Robert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX--who's coming to New Orleans June 15th References: <199806030207.TAA29841@hub.freebsd.org> <19980603075649.A9370@keltia.freenix.fr> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 03 Jun 1998 08:30:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: Ollivier Robert's message of "Wed, 03 Jun 1998 07:56:49 +0200" Message-ID: <87soln0zfm.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ollivier Robert writes: > According to Jonathan M. Bresler: > > who all i coming and when? > > > > i plan to be in New Orleans starting sunday night, june 14th > > till sunday noon, june 21st. > > Same here with a friend of mine. New Orleans will probably be one of the > largest gathering of FreeBSD folks ever. More core team members in one > place we've seen too. Even Mark (Murray) is coming from South Africa... And the rest of us will be in Hamburg (http://www.hcs.de/users/hm/june98.html). MBONE BOF? ;-) tg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 3 02:06:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03840 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:06:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03798 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:06:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21974; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:06:24 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA29492; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:05:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980603110558.57456@follo.net> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:05:58 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Use of gotos (was Re: ppp cannot find libalias) References: <199806021711.KAA01018@antipodes.cdrom.com> <199806022309.QAA23355@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806022309.QAA23355@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 11:09:27PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat] On Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 11:09:27PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > People who hate goto's for the sake of hating goto's don't understand > that no matter how hard they try, the compiler is going to generate > branch and jump instructions, and there's nothing they can do about it > in a high level language, except cause the optimizer to invoke loop > register preload and unrolling optimizations erroneously. If they can that, then they're not working in a high level language, and they're working with a buggy compiler to boot ;-) > [...] If you see yourself using a lot of goto's, well, it's either > beta code that you've written that way for program flow readability > (don't expect or suggest that it should be checked in) Why not? The only reason I can see not to check in something that is written using gotos _for readability_ is the amount of hysteria it could cause. The (original) argument against gotos is that it obscures readability (that was before it become a religious argument due to too many people parroting what they learnt at college :-) I prefer state machines written using goto's - then I get one state variable to relate to (the position in the program) instead of two. > For non-beta code, where it's now known to work, converting goto's to > negative logic is a win (it saves branch instructions). I'm not certain what you're trying to say here. I can't parse this in any way that makes sense WRT optimizing compilers. (Explaining background, in case I'm missing something) I know of no intermediate code that use _both_ gotos and structured programs. In traditional intermediate codes, the representation use an if/goto-network, and starting in this form have no negative impact - it's what it is made for optimizing :-) This is, IIRC, the representation gcc use. In modern (1990s) compilers, everything is represented as a structured program. This is (again IIRC) to make it easier to move expressions around, and doing many of the advanced optimizations. These are supposed to be able to slide code every which way, to exploit common features. I can't see these being hurt by a goto-based implementation, either. So - what am I missing? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 3 05:08:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29728 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 05:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29704 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 05:08:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03477; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:08:02 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA00575; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:07:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980603140736.60305@follo.net> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:07:36 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Donald Burr , Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Murray , Matthew Hunt Subject: Re: ATTENTION ports maintainers ! References: <9336.896814615@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Donald Burr on Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 03:18:42AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 03:18:42AM -0700, Donald Burr wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > My secret spy satellite informs me that on 02-Jun-98, Poul-Henning Kamp > wrote: > > > What the heck is "sweetmeats" ? > > Trust me. You don't want to know. > > Hint: (at least in the Old English usage) it meant basically "parts of > animals that one would normally not consider eating"... BZZT! Thanks for playing, but you loose. ;-) >From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]: Sweetmeat \Sweet"meat`\, n. 1. Fruit preserved with sugar, as peaches, pears, melons, nuts, orange peel, etc.; -- usually in the plural; a confect; a confection. 2. The paint used in making patent leather. 3. (Zo["o]l.) A boat shell ({Crepidula fornicata}) of the American coast. [Local, U.S.] >From WordNet (r) 1.6 [wn]: sweetmeat n : a sweetened delicacy (as a preserve or pastry) Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 3 09:12:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07974 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:12:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA07968 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Mailer-Daemon@East.Sun.COM) Received: from East.Sun.COM ([129.148.1.241]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id JAA07940 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:12:03 -0700 Received: from suneast.East.Sun.COM by East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id MAA14414; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:11:59 -0400 Received: from compound.east.sun.com by suneast.East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA26950; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:11:58 -0400 Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound.east.sun.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA29012; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:13:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:13:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199806031613.LAA29012@compound.east.sun.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernfs/procfs questions... References: <199806031145.EAA26532@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm pretty strongly on the side of simplicity and orthogonality of use, and universal applicability of tools myself. That's what the FS interface provides, and sysctl, or IP services for that matter, fail to provide. (Who goofed with sockets?) The FS interface needs to be abstracted, generalized in order to accomodate these broader applications, admittedly. Ioctls are eggregious. I can understand the performance consideration which leads to SHM, but in general communication between processes should be accomplished by read/write, not ioctl and setsockopt and listen and accept and sysctl and traps, and... One could argue for substantial changes in many historical interfaces, but codebase and portability considerations generally prohibit such changes in any general-purpose system. FreeBSD, however, seems to draw the line by historical reference to 4.4 Lite 2, constraining the system more strongly than does the application codebase (since the former includes design decisions which are not honored by the latter). This is unfortunate when it causes divergence from the mainstream application codebase, which is more Linux/SVR4- oriented with each passing day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 3 15:58:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21861 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk (jraynard.demon.co.uk [158.152.42.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21845 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:58:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from james@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: (from james@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00947; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:28:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from james) Message-ID: <19980603212841.03640@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:28:41 +0100 From: James Raynard To: Jason Cc: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... References: <001001bd8e9d$13b9df40$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <001001bd8e9d$13b9df40$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net>; from Jason on Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 11:09:49PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 11:09:49PM -0400, Jason wrote: [someone else wrote] > >See the DOJ's > >complaint, to which numerous members of this list have linked. > > Well...what I asked before was specifics...If you are not able to converse > with me on a mature level then please don't bother. So have you read the DoJ's case? (Hint: it's an extremely specific document). Just a simple "yes" or "no" will do... James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 3 15:58:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21907 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:58:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk (jraynard.demon.co.uk [158.152.42.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21855 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from james@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: (from james@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00996; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:05:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from james) Message-ID: <19980603220512.18483@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:05:12 +0100 From: James Raynard To: Eivind Eklund Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATTENTION ports maintainers ! References: <9336.896814615@critter.freebsd.dk> <19980603140736.60305@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <19980603140736.60305@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 02:07:36PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Cc line brutally butchered] On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 02:07:36PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 03:18:42AM -0700, Donald Burr wrote: > > > > My secret spy satellite informs me that on 02-Jun-98, Poul-Henning Kamp > > wrote: > > > > > What the heck is "sweetmeats" ? > > > > Trust me. You don't want to know. > > > > Hint: (at least in the Old English usage) it meant basically "parts of > > animals that one would normally not consider eating"... > > BZZT! Thanks for playing, but you loose. ;-) Presumably he meant sweetbreads. (I won't say any more except that they come in pairs and are unique to the male of the species...) James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 4 02:47:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA08602 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:47:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08540 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:47:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA08823 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:47:46 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:47:46 +0200 (MEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199806040947.LAA08823@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: www.netscape.com/download/oem.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Concerning PR work: Could someone (Jordan) with good relations/connections persuade the Netscape people that at least a link to the native FreeBSD Communicator 4.05 would be a good idea. If Linux is already mentioned on their Main OS download page so at least FreeBSD (since 'vendor supported') should deserve a mention in their oem page, shouldn't it? -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 4 10:52:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23271 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:52:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23112; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:51:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (root@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11277; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:51:55 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03949; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:51:55 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199806041751.TAA03949@greenpeace.grondar.za> To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USENIX--who's coming to New Orleans June 15th Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 19:51:54 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jonathan M. Bresler" wrote: > USENIX this year will be in New Orleans. > tutorials begin on June 15th. > tech conference begins on June 17th. > > who all i coming and when? I'll be there on Sunday night at the Crowne Plaza. > i plan to be in New Orleans starting sunday night, june 14th > till sunday noon, june 21st. I'll be there until Saturday the 20th. Then I'm off to SFO. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 4 10:56:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24170 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:56:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gratis.grondar.za (gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24157 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:56:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from greenpeace.grondar.za (root@greenpeace.grondar.za [196.7.18.132]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11288; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:56:21 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Received: from grondar.za (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by greenpeace.grondar.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04010; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:56:18 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <199806041756.TAA04010@greenpeace.grondar.za> To: James Raynard cc: Eivind Eklund , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATTENTION ports maintainers ! Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 19:56:17 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org James Raynard wrote: > > > Hint: (at least in the Old English usage) it meant basically "parts of > > > animals that one would normally not consider eating"... > > > > BZZT! Thanks for playing, but you loose. ;-) > > Presumably he meant sweetbreads. (I won't say any more except that they > come in pairs and are unique to the male of the species...) BZZZT! Wrong! Sweetbreads are the pancreas and sometimes the thymus, considered as food. Excuse me.... (gag). M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 4 21:06:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20369 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20298 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:06:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19723; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19980604174542.044f7310@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 17:55:18 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: FreeBSD 2.99999? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've got a quandary on my hands. I need to deploy a new UNIX server, and would like to run FreeBSD on it. I could run 2.2.6 (with patches -- unless a 2.2.7 is imminent) on it, or risk going to 3.0-current. 2.2.6 is fabulously stable, but -current has so many appealing features that are not being migrated back to 2.2.x (for instance, CAM, DOS VMs, long user names, 64-bit dates, etc.) that I'd be sacrificing a lot if I installed 2.2.6. And installing a snapshot (as I've done in the past) can be risky and messy. (Sticking with a relatively stable snap and using CVSup each have benefits and liabilities.) How far is 3.0 away from prime time? What is the official criterion for deciding when it's ready to do a release? Now that it has so many things that 2.2.6 doesn't, is it time for a 2.9999 release based on the -current source tree to wring out the remaining bugs? --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 4 23:04:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11662 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:04:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cia.net.au (mail.cia.net.au [203.17.36.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11568 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:04:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alastair@cia.com.au) Received: from clarence.progmatics.com.au ([203.28.49.193]) by cia.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA31397 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:59:01 +1000 Received: from alastair (192.168.0.67) by clarence.progmatics.com.au (Worldmail 1.3.167); 5 Jun 1998 16:04:09 +1000 Message-ID: <356B61CF00000112@clarence.progmatics.com.au> (added by clarence.progmatics.com.au) X-Sender: alastair@mail.cia.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 16:04:06 +1000 To: Brett Glass From: Alastair Rankine Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.99999? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.0.1.19980604174542.044f7310@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:55 PM 4/06/98 -0600, you wrote: >fabulously stable, but -current has so many appealing features that are not >being migrated back to 2.2.x (for instance, CAM, DOS VMs, long user names, >64-bit dates, etc.) that I'd be sacrificing a lot if I installed 2.2.6. And On a slightly related issue, it sure would be nice to be able to even find out what's coming up in -current! Linux Weekly News (http://lwn.net) is a great resource for keeping up-to-date with the latest Linux developments. I visit weekly, even though I don't have a Linux box. Something similar for FreeBSD would be great! As a general observation it seems that the FreeBSD community as a whole are far less inclined to tell the outside world about their achievments. Of course I'm not advocating a genesis of a new breed of one-eyed zealots, such as the Amiga users back in the '80s, the Guy Kawasaki Mac-Nazis or the more extreme of the Linux crowd (or, Dog help us, the NT fanatics for that matter :). FreeBSD is still the great undiscovered secret of the times. It would be a pity for it to stay that way. Just some unwanted opinions from someone on the fringes.... (of what, you decide :) -- [ Alastair Rankine ] [ mailto:alastair@cia.com.au ] [ http://www.cia.com.au/alastair ] [ pgp5 64E4 B67C D2B7 EEC4 63C9 AA74 F63A 9AD9 E44B 21C7 ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 5 03:40:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22973 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 03:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sun-test.hightek.com ([194.74.141.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA22956; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 03:40:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm2.hightek.com) Received: from klemm2.hightek.com ([195.90.203.76]) by sun-test.hightek.com (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAA7368; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:40:44 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm2.hightek.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07222; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:40:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980605124043.28601@hightek.com> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:40:43 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Satoshi Asami Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/print/apsfilter Makefile ports/print/apsfilter/files md5 ports/print/apsfilter/pkg PLIST References: <19980605111937.61997@hightek.com> <199806051007.DAA10901@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806051007.DAA10901@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU>; from Satoshi Asami on Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 03:07:15AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 05, 1998 at 03:07:15AM -0700, Satoshi Asami wrote: > * 4.9.6 -> 4.9.7 > * Already noticed that yesterday evening, when hitting ;-) > > I know that, that's not the point. I'm just pointing out that it is > nicer to have it in the cvs log, not the mail log. :) You're right, 'though for mail log it's excellent as well ;-) -- B&K Gruppe - Wuppertal phone +49 202 7399 - 170 fax +49 202 7399 - 100 http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 5 06:00:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA12126 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (freefall.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12077 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA334; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:58:16 +0200 Message-ID: <3577EB9A.55A8271A@pipeline.ch> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 14:59:06 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alastair Rankine CC: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.99999? References: <356B61CF00000112@clarence.progmatics.com.au> (added by clarence.progmatics.com.au) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alastair Rankine wrote: > > At 05:55 PM 4/06/98 -0600, you wrote: > >fabulously stable, but -current has so many appealing features that are not > >being migrated back to 2.2.x (for instance, CAM, DOS VMs, long user names, > >64-bit dates, etc.) that I'd be sacrificing a lot if I installed 2.2.6. And > > On a slightly related issue, it sure would be nice to be able to even find > out what's coming up in -current! I'm working on that ;-) It will be up somewhen on the weekend. I'll announce it here on the list. > Linux Weekly News (http://lwn.net) is a great resource for keeping > up-to-date with the latest Linux developments. I visit weekly, even though > I don't have a Linux box. Something similar for FreeBSD would be great! -snip- -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 5 09:07:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18682 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:07:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18657 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; for ""; id RAA08281; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:07:10 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:07:10 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199806051607.RAA08281@hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id RAA11167; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:02:10 +0100 From: Scott Mitchell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Missing headers in digested lists? X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Couldn't think of a better place for this.... Is there any particular reason why the digested mailing lists don't include the original Message-ID: and References: headers from the individual messages? Not having these makes threading a bit hit-and-miss. In the same vein, it would be useful if the list address appeared in the To: or CC:, making it easier to reply to the list as well as the sender. I know, I could get the undigested lists, but the digests download so much faster and they're easier to ignore when I should be doing real work... TIA, Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 05:27:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28982 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:27:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk (jraynard.demon.co.uk [158.152.42.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA28960 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from james@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: (from james@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02367; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:19:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from james) Message-ID: <19980605211913.19239@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:19:13 +0100 From: James Raynard To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.99999? References: <4.0.1.19980604174542.044f7310@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <4.0.1.19980604174542.044f7310@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 05:55:18PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 04, 1998 at 05:55:18PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > I've got a quandary on my hands. I need to deploy a new UNIX server, and > would like to run FreeBSD on it. I could run 2.2.6 (with patches -- unless > a 2.2.7 is imminent) on it, or risk going to 3.0-current. According to Jordan's recent Usenet posting there will be a 2.2.7 release in mid-July. (Note the disclaimer about dates, though). > 2.2.6 is > fabulously stable, but -current has so many appealing features that are not > being migrated back to 2.2.x (for instance, CAM, DOS VMs, long user names, > 64-bit dates, etc.) that I'd be sacrificing a lot if I installed 2.2.6. It depends whether you prefer features or reliability :-) If, as you say, it's a production machine, I would stick to 2.2.x. > How far is 3.0 away from prime time? Mid-October, although I suspect this may well slip. > What is the official criterion for > deciding when it's ready to do a release? Basically whenever the core team feel it's ready. > Now that it has so many things > that 2.2.6 doesn't, is it time for a 2.9999 release based on the -current > source tree to wring out the remaining bugs? Maybe. I have to admit I worry sometimes about the ever-widening gap between -stable and -current and how well all the new features in 3.0 are going to work in the field. James (not a member of core) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 09:39:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20863 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20815 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:39:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/04/23 5.10)) id MAA24811; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:39:40 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts001d02.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.14]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.8) id MAA15449; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003201bd916a$65e1ce20$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "James Raynard" Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:34:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >So have you read the DoJ's case? (Hint: it's an extremely specific document). > >Just a simple "yes" or "no" will do... > No....I only get the news reports out here. No one has sent me anything that would give me the fist clue where to find such a document. A url or file attachment would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 09:40:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20925 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20831 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/04/23 5.10)) id MAA24858; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:39:47 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts001d02.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.14]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.8) id MAA15489; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003401bd916a$69f88ee0$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "Brian Tao" , "Brett Glass" Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:43:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I'm quite serious. You, on the other hand, are making excuses to ignore what >people in this newsgroup are saying. And since you're clearly connected to >the Internet, "living out in the boonies" is no excuse for your ignorance. I am more interrested in fact rather than opinion. If I knew I would tell you...but right now I am asking questions and questioning the source of some people....so far I have got no concrete anything in reply...just personal attacks on me and my credibility. I can only state what I know...how about showing me more? >Hmmm.... Didn't Microsoft recently launch a so-called "grass roots" campaign >in which it planned to plant supportive messages in newsgroups and on mailing >lists? What have you received from Microsoft to be part of this campaign? What Microsoft does is none of my business. I receive noting from MS except a free subscription to MS magazine for registering my Office 97. Worthless in any case....I see it as nothing more as a advertising opportunity from MS...it gets tossed most of the time. And for the record...I am a FreeBSD user and own a copy of the 4 disk set with book sold my WalnetCreek. I have nothing against FreeBSD or any of the users here. I am only here because I am very new to this and need occasional help. I only got into this because I saw the thread and wanted to express my opinion and learn more about this. It was your messages that got my attention as to how serious this dispute really. Any further attacks? |I can take them all day...but prefer real conversation. Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 09:40:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20926 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:40:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20819 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/04/23 5.10)) id MAA24839; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:39:43 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts001d02.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.14]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.8) id MAA15469; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003301bd916a$680a2c60$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "Amancio Hasty" Cc: "Brian Tao" , "Brett Glass" , "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:36:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Hi Jason, > >You may find this interesting: > >Franklin M. Fisher discusses the economics of competition and monopoly > > By Lynda Radosevich > InfoWorld Electric > > The Department of Justice included with its antitrust filings a declaration from Franklin M. Fisher, professor of economics at Massachusetts Institute of Technology in > Cambridge, Mass. Fisher also served as IBM's chief economic witness in the 1970s. > >http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?/interviews/980601fisher.h tm > >* W. Brian Arthur: >Santa Fe Institute economist says existing antitrust >doctrines need new guidelines to address monopolistic >action. >--------------- >http://www.infoworld.com/scoop/sc?980603iv1 > > Amancio > > Thanks....this is greatly appreciated Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 10:02:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23324 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [129.72.251.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23234 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14433; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806061701.LAA14433@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 11:01:48 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... (NOT!) In-Reply-To: <003401bd916a$69f88ee0$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:43 PM 6/6/98 -0400, Jason wrote: >I am more interrested in fact rather than opinion. If I knew I would tell >you...but right now I am asking questions and questioning the source of some >people....so far I have got no concrete anything in reply...just personal >attacks on me and my credibility. Bull$#!%. You are refusing to follow up on the information you are being given and then making the same absurd claims that you have received "no concrete anything." In short, you're solely being disruptive. List maintainer, please cut this person off. He's clearly a Microsoft "shill" whose sole purpose is to disrupt. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 10:49:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28493 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:49:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28435 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 10:48:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id TAA02855 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 19:45:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05921; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 19:01:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980606190148.A4666@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 19:01:48 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: C't computer magazine, 12/98, p. 196ff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doppelhertz, Zwei Prozessoren im DeskTop-PC (Uwe Post, Peter Siering) "...Under todays popular Desktop Operating Systems only Windows NT and Linux support two or more CPU's... other operating systems, for example OS/2 support multiple processors only in special server versions..." Well, will write an e-mail to them ... FreeBSD and Solaris x86 do so as well ... No special server version ... Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas What gives you 90% more speed, for example, in kernel compilation ? http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html "NT = Not Today" (Maggie Biggs) ``powered by FreeBSD SMP'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 14:34:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24402 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 14:34:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24364 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 14:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from eliot.pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-32-239.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.239]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id OAA06252; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 14:33:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jack Velte" To: "Jason" , "James Raynard" Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 14:20:41 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd9190$f5bd8b80$ef20aace@eliot.pacbell.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>So have you read the DoJ's case? (Hint: it's an extremely specific >document). >> >>Just a simple "yes" or "no" will do... http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases3/micros/1762.htm http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases3/micros/1763.htm >No....I only get the news reports out here. No one has sent me anything >that would give me the fist clue where to find such a document. > >A url or file attachment would be greatly appreciated. these are two recent suits posted on the list. as a personal favor, i'd like the email addresses of the attorney generals listed in this document, if someone would like to work on that. regards, -jack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 16:27:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08487 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:27:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk (jraynard.demon.co.uk [158.152.42.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08467 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:27:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from james@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: (from james@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02187; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:40:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from james) Message-ID: <19980606204021.13503@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:40:21 +0100 From: James Raynard To: Jason Cc: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... References: <003201bd916a$65e1ce20$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <003201bd916a$65e1ce20$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net>; from Jason on Sat, Jun 06, 1998 at 12:34:55PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 06, 1998 at 12:34:55PM -0400, Jason wrote: > >So have you read the DoJ's case? > > No....I only get the news reports out here. No one has sent me anything > that would give me the fist clue where to find such a document. Erm... the URL has been mentioned here at least twice. > A url or file attachment would be greatly appreciated. http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases3/micros/1763.htm James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 16:27:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08542 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:27:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08505 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:27:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (localhost.softweyr.com [127.0.0.1]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07420; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 17:26:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3579D03A.363A68F3@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 17:26:50 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andreas Klemm CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C't computer magazine, 12/98, p. 196ff References: <19980606190148.A4666@klemm.gtn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andreas Klemm wrote: > > Doppelhertz, Zwei Prozessoren im DeskTop-PC (Uwe Post, Peter Siering) > > "...Under todays popular Desktop Operating Systems only Windows NT > and Linux support two or more CPU's... > other operating systems, for example OS/2 support multiple processors > only in special server versions..." > > Well, will write an e-mail to them ... > FreeBSD and Solaris x86 do so as well ... > No special server version ... While you're writing them, don't forget to tell them about BeOS. ;^) It supports uniprocessor systems as a special case of a multiprocessor that, stupidly enough, only has one CPU in it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 16:33:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA09197 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09168 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (localhost.softweyr.com [127.0.0.1]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07438; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 17:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3579D1A3.3C8110A7@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 17:32:51 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Raynard CC: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.99999? References: <4.0.1.19980604174542.044f7310@mail.lariat.org> <19980605211913.19239@jraynard.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org James Raynard wrote: > > Now that it has so many things > > that 2.2.6 doesn't, is it time for a 2.9999 release based on the -current > > source tree to wring out the remaining bugs? > > Maybe. I have to admit I worry sometimes about the ever-widening gap > between -stable and -current and how well all the new features in 3.0 are > going to work in the field. > > James (not a member of core) You know, this entire conversation has an eery cloud of "Deja Vu" around it. I'm not sure when it happened last time; it might have been as far ago as 1.1.5.1 - 2.0, or as recent as 2.1.7+ - 2.2, but this same conversation happened with different participants at least once in FreeBSDs past. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 20:43:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01726 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01718; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:43:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199806070343.UAA01718@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... (NOT!) In-Reply-To: <199806061701.LAA14433@lariat.lariat.org> from Brett Glass at "Jun 6, 98 11:01:48 am" To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:43 PM 6/6/98 -0400, Jason wrote: > > >I am more interrested in fact rather than opinion. If I knew I would tell > >you...but right now I am asking questions and questioning the source of some > >people....so far I have got no concrete anything in reply...just personal > >attacks on me and my credibility. > > Bull$#!%. You are refusing to follow up on the information you are being given > and then making the same absurd claims that you have received "no concrete > anything." In short, you're solely being disruptive. > > List maintainer, please cut this person off. He's clearly a Microsoft "shill" > whose sole purpose is to disrupt. i am very reluctant to ban anyone from the lists. we have dont that before, about 6 cases in over 3 years. perhaps, this thread should die. the lawsuit will take years. Jason was given clear references to the DOJ documents. everyone has expressed their opinion. there just aint alot let to say. please, let this thread die. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 22:42:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09428 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 22:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09414 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 22:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/04/23 5.10)) id BAA17466; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:42:42 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts004d06.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.90]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.8) id BAA03369; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000a01bd91d7$ca62a320$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "James Raynard" Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:47:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Erm... the URL has been mentioned here at least twice. Must have been before I joined the thread >http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases3/micros/1763.htm > Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 22:45:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09697 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 22:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09681 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 22:44:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/04/23 5.10)) id BAA17618; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:44:52 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts004d06.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.90]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.8) id BAA03661; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501bd91d8$0a52bd80$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "James Raynard" Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:49:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Erm... the URL has been mentioned here at least twice. > > >http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases3/micros/1763.htm > >James > File Not Found The requested URL /atr/cases3/micros/1763.htm was not found on this server. Anyone else have this in a working link? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 6 22:46:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09865 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 22:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09859 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 22:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kib@poboxes.com) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/04/23 5.10)) id BAA17823; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:46:20 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from kib (ts004d06.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.90]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.8) id BAA03982; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002001bd91d8$4c7d85a0$023aa8c0@kib.kib.net> Reply-To: "Jason" From: "Jason" To: "Jack Velte" , "James Raynard" Cc: "FREEBSD-CHAT" Subject: Re: Why we should support Microsoft... Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 01:51:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases3/micros/1762.htm File Not Found The requested URL /atr/cases3/micros/1762.htm was not found on this server. >http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases3/micros/1763.htm > File Not Found The requested URL /atr/cases3/micros/1762.htm was not found on this server. >these are two recent suits posted on the list. > >as a personal favor, i'd like the email addresses of the attorney >generals listed in this document, if someone would like to work >on that. > >regards, > >-jack > Maybe they dismissed the case for lack of real evidence :) Anyone have better urls? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message