From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 21 07:16:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22320 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:16:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.63.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22314 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:16:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca) Received: from shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.141.116]) by norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA20667; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 10:17:07 -0400 Message-ID: <358D159D.310CB5A9@shaw.wave.ca> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 10:15:57 -0400 From: Lanny Baron Organization: York Hill Foods X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 48! and it ain't hard?? References: <19980621105332.52639@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > It's been a tough two days, but it was well worth it. Finally I have reached > level three! > > > > Oh... I think I hear 'man sh' calling. Whoever said unix is hard? > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > Hello Sue, So you think Unix is not hard? Hmm...i've been at it for a few years and still don't know much more than when I started. Even with the aid of The Complete FreeBSD by one Mr. Greg Lehey. Not to mention Essential System Administration by Aileen Frisch and DNS and BIND. My current dilemmas are trying to get kirc (/usr/ports/net/kirc) to load on the desktop in such a way (like normal) to be able to move the window. The other being the usage of natd with a cable modem. Well have fun. Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 21 07:29:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23386 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:29:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA23382 for chat; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:29:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 07:29:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199806211429.HAA23382@hub.freebsd.org> To: chat Subject: please ignore. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org chat seems to be behaving differently from test. so i need to confirm this. sorry. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 21 15:00:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08253 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost1.u.washington.edu (mailhost1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08169; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs237-6.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.127]) by mailhost1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with SMTP id PAA26137; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:00:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:02:32 -0700 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: don morrison Subject: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The power of those little comment-cards is amazing. The University of Washington Bookstore had never carried FreeBSD related stuff (not counting a few 4.4BSD related things) until today because a couple weeks ago I took 5 minutes to fill out one of those little comment cards recommending Greg Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD" (which I hadn't actually read *grin*), and lo and behold as I walked through the UN*X section of the bookstore today there were four copies sitting right there where they should have always been along with four sets of the Walnut Creek 2.2.6 release cd's!!! =) Well, not quite were they should have been, but I quickly rectified the situation by moving them to impulse-buy-eye-level right above the redhat 5.1 boxes (swapping them with linux development books which were wasting this prime selling space and tossed those down next to the UNIX Dummies books.:) Anyone going to the U, come buy these right now!! ;-) I just wish I had filled one of those things out before; I had forgotten how susceptible bookstores were to customer feedback. The Barnes and Noble down the hill here in our U district will order any book that you ask for that's not in stock and call you when it's there with no obligation to buy. So, please, everybody, go heckle your nearest bookstore!! ;) Don To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 21 15:03:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08843 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:03:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08838 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:03:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10841; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:03:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806212203.PAA10841@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: don morrison cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:02:32 PDT." <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:03:23 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Most Cool it almost reads as a spy thriller novel 8) Way to go !! Regards, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 21 15:34:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14831 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:34:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost2.u.washington.edu (mailhost2.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14824 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs238-5.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.143]) by mailhost2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with SMTP id PAA09108; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:34:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980621153709.0080ca20@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:37:09 -0700 To: Amancio Hasty From: don morrison Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806212203.PAA10841@rah.star-gate.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Most Cool it almost reads as a spy thriller novel 8) > > >Way to go !! Thanks. I couldn't make it sound like actual writing as I couldn't stand not mail it within 3 minutes of getting to a keyboard. =) And BTW everyone, sorry for the cross-post. Wasn't thinking. Aww phooey, who cares?! My bookstore has FreeBSD!!! =) =) =) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 21 20:58:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05346 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost2.u.washington.edu (mailhost2.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05336 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:58:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs237-14.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.135]) by mailhost2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with SMTP id UAA12067 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:58:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980621210043.00873510@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:00:43 -0700 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: don morrison Subject: cheap books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org BTW, the U.W. Bookstore is only charging $50 for the The Complete FreeBSD that comes with the CD's ($70 at amazon), plus they don't charge any shipping if you live anywhere in the US. http://www.bookstore.washington.edu/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 02:53:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01593 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01543; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:52:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw131 [134.32.45.97]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA08957 ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:52:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA05724; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:52:09 +0200 To: don morrison Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P References: <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla X-Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 22 Jun 1998 11:52:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: don morrison's message of Sun, 21 Jun 1998 15:02:32 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org don morrison writes: > The power of those little comment-cards is amazing. The University of > Washington Bookstore had never carried FreeBSD related stuff (not counting > a few 4.4BSD related things) until today because a couple weeks ago I took > 5 minutes to fill out one of those little comment cards recommending Greg > Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD" (which I hadn't actually read *grin*), and Hmmm, you're giving me ideas. I have been (successfully) lobbying Akademika (the University bookstore in Oslo, Norway) for quite some time now, but I just realized that I have never thought of ordering FreeBSD books for the CS department library. They'll order at least a copy of any book any student or staff member asks for, so c'mon guys, make me a list :) -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 06:08:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26623 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 06:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA26592; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 06:08:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tg@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA05654; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:07:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tg@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA22731; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:07:54 +0200 (CEST) To: wilko@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackersparty@tcja.nl Subject: Re: FYI: Dutch 1998 FreeBSD WorldCon, October 1998, Arnhem, The Netherlands References: <19980618153334.A568@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 22 Jun 1998 15:07:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: Wolfram Schneider's message of "Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:33:34 +0200" Message-ID: <874sxdy47s.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [I'm spreading this a bit. See Cc:] > When will it be held > -------------------- > > The 3 day event starts on Wednesday October 21 and ends on Friday evening. > > This schedule was put together to allow visitors sightseeing trips over > the Oct 23/24 weekend. The most common Dutch tourist trap, Amsterdam, > is only 1:10hr away by train. People who arrived by plane can easily fly > back from Amsterdam Airport after visiting Amsterdam. We discussed this a bit in Hamburg last weekend. Several people (including me) complained that it's unlikely for them to find the time to take three days off within the week. Would it be possible to attend only one day? tg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 07:41:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA10666 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailhost1.u.washington.edu (mailhost1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10654; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:41:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmorrisn@u.washington.edu) Received: from don (cs237-15.student.washington.edu [140.142.173.136]) by mailhost1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.11) with SMTP id HAA08003; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:41:29 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980622074400.008756e0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> X-Sender: dmorrisn@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:44:00 -0700 To: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) From: don morrison Subject: Re: I finally got my University's bookstore to carry FreeBSD stuff!! 8^P Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980621150232.008116d0@dmorrisn.deskmail.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Hmmm, you're giving me ideas. I have been (successfully) lobbying >Akademika (the University bookstore in Oslo, Norway) for quite some >time now, but I just realized that I have never thought of ordering >FreeBSD books for the CS department library. They'll order at least a >copy of any book any student or staff member asks for, so c'mon guys, >make me a list :) Good idea. The departmental libraries here makes me go get a book at an affiliate library if they have the specific book I want though...If none of them have it, you can ask for it at each library, and their administrations will each get moving on it separately, and you'll end up with like 15 copies. ;) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 08:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21998 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:54:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pc02.labcontrol.com (pc02.labcontrol.com [194.163.70.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21990; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@pc02.labcontrol.com) Received: (from marc@localhost) by pc02.labcontrol.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00199; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:52:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:52:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199806221552.RAA00199@pc02.labcontrol.com> From: Marc van Woerkom To: hackersparty@tcja.nl CC: wilko@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackersparty@tcja.nl In-reply-to: <874sxdy47s.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> (message from Thomas Gellekum on 22 Jun 1998 15:07:51 +0200) Subject: Re: hackersparty Re: FYI: Dutch 1998 FreeBSD WorldCon, October 1998, Arnhem, The Netherlands Reply-to: lmarc@mail.labcontrol.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >(including me) complained that it's unlikely for them to find the time > to take three days off within the week. > Would it be possible to attend only one day? I would have prefered Fr, Sa, So too. Right now I'm looking for some people from the Cologne area who would travel/visit Wednesday only. Groetjes, Marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 12:38:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05101 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA05053; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:37:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA22442 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:53:07 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA01570; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:16:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806221716.TAA01570@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: hackersparty Re: FYI: Dutch 1998 FreeBSD WorldCon, October 1998, Arnhem, The Netherlands In-Reply-To: <874sxdy47s.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> from Thomas Gellekum at "Jun 22, 98 03:07:51 pm" To: hackersparty@tcja.nl Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:16:30 +0200 (CEST) Cc: wilko@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@de.freebsd.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hackersparty@tcja.nl, freebsdparty-org@tcja.nl (FreeBSD party Organisatie), jkh@FreeBSD.ORG (Jordan K. Hubbard) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Thomas Gellekum wrote... > [I'm spreading this a bit. See Cc:] > > > When will it be held > > -------------------- > > > > The 3 day event starts on Wednesday October 21 and ends on Friday evening. > > > > This schedule was put together to allow visitors sightseeing trips over > > the Oct 23/24 weekend. The most common Dutch tourist trap, Amsterdam, > > is only 1:10hr away by train. People who arrived by plane can easily fly > > back from Amsterdam Airport after visiting Amsterdam. > > We discussed this a bit in Hamburg last weekend. Several people > (including me) complained that it's unlikely for them to find the time > to take three days off within the week. Would it be possible to attend > only one day? No problem as far as I'm concerned. If the majority of people rather have Thursday - Saturday, or maybe even Friday - Sunday we can accomodate that change. Sightseeing (esp. for our American friends ;-) can also be done _before_ the Arnhem party. Please let me know what you think. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 15:51:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13251 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13230; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@obie.softweyr.com) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08744; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes) From: Wes Peters Message-Id: <199806222251.QAA08744@obie.softweyr.com> Subject: Anyone here know "FreeGate"? To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:51:28 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone around here seen or heard of FreeGate? It is an integrated internet connection point, and claims to be based on "BSD enhanced for security." Is this FreeBSD based? Cane we get them added to our vendors lists? Sick'em girls and boys! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 16:22:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19430 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:22:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic21.pm04.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19358; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id QAA22298; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980622162155.A22278@mooseriver.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:21:55 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Wes Peters , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone here know "FreeGate"? Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199806222251.QAA08744@obie.softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806222251.QAA08744@obie.softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 04:51:28PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 22, 1998 at 04:51:28PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Has anyone around here seen or heard of FreeGate? It is an integrated > internet connection point, and claims to be based on "BSD enhanced for > security." Is this FreeBSD based? Cane we get them added to our > vendors lists? > > Sick'em girls and boys! > I used to work for FreeGate. They are an "Internet in a box" mini-server, very much like Whistle. Their OS is FreeBSD that has been tweaked to run their hardware and yes they have done a lot to the OS concerning security. It should be on the vendor list. http://www.freegate.com Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 21:29:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22076 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:29:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from u2.farm.idt.net (root@u2.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22071 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:29:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garycorc@idt.net) Received: from idt.net (ppp-25.ts-1-bay.cra.idt.net [169.132.58.73]) by u2.farm.idt.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19013; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <358F2F6B.3FE961C5@idt.net> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:30:35 -0400 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone here know "FreeGate"? References: <199806222251.QAA08744@obie.softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters wrote: > > Has anyone around here seen or heard of FreeGate? Ummm... Is that a recent (WaterGate-like) FreeBSD scandal? ;-) (sorry, but that just seemed to fit so well, and this *is* chat... :-) (and one of Amancio's multimedia messages mentioned something about a "key FreeBSD player" leaving recently, which I'm curious about... I presume those subscribing to -hackers know, but I don't subscribe) Gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 22 23:22:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00783 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (root@jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00778 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:22:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id XAA27444; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:22:31 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id XAA28845; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:12:11 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: "Gary T. Corcoran" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone here know "FreeGate"? In-Reply-To: <358F2F6B.3FE961C5@idt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Gary T. Corcoran wrote: >Wes Peters wrote: >> >> Has anyone around here seen or heard of FreeGate? > >Ummm... Is that a recent (WaterGate-like) FreeBSD scandal? ;-) > >(sorry, but that just seemed to fit so well, and this *is* chat... :-) >(and one of Amancio's multimedia messages mentioned something about a > "key FreeBSD player" leaving recently, which I'm curious about... > I presume those subscribing to -hackers know, but I don't subscribe) I believe that would be John Dyson. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ | 206-633-5994 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 23 01:33:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21103 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:33:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from admin3.calweb.com (cslye@admin3.calweb.com [208.131.56.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21094 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:33:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cslye@admin3.calweb.com) Received: (from cslye@localhost) by admin3.calweb.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19750 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:38:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cslye) Message-Id: <199806230838.BAA19750@admin3.calweb.com> Subject: Art Bell show To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:38:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Cameron Slye" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, FreeBSD got a nice plug on the Art Bell show tonight, along with some more dis-information about the Schwartz case. Not TO bad of a show for anyone that wants to waste time time and a little bandwidth. http://ww2.broadcast.com/artbell/archive.html#jun98 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 23 04:44:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26987 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 04:44:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cygnus.rush.net (root@cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26930 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 04:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03289; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:15:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:15:31 -0500 (EST) From: P Lynch To: Cameron Slye cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Art Bell show In-Reply-To: <199806230838.BAA19750@admin3.calweb.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org heh looks like I'll have to attempt to get the linux realvideo player working (my machine doesn;t like emulation on some apps, this is one of them) ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking ___________________________________________________________________________ On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Cameron Slye wrote: > Well, FreeBSD got a nice plug on the Art Bell show tonight, along with some > more dis-information about the Schwartz case. Not TO bad of a show for > anyone that wants to waste time time and a little bandwidth. > > http://ww2.broadcast.com/artbell/archive.html#jun98 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 23 10:38:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27660 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca [24.64.63.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27580; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from purebeef@shaw.wave.ca) Received: from shaw.wave.ca ([24.64.141.116]) by norquay.tor.shaw.wave.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA18016; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:38:45 -0400 Message-ID: <358FE7A8.A3F4A3B5@shaw.wave.ca> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:36:40 -0400 From: Lanny Baron Organization: York Hill Foods X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: routing tables and problem understanding the results Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I have a cable modem, 2 pcs connected via hub, 2 nics in one pc (one of those nic cards directly attached to modem via ethernet cable) and 1 nic in the other pc. I do not have static IP. When typing netstat -r the following appears: [beef]$ netstat -r Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default h24-64-141-1.mt.wa UGSc 4 0 de0 unused.shaw.ca/24 link#2 UC 0 0 unused.shaw.ca link#1 UC 0 0 unused.shaw.ca 0:80:c8:7e:f3:db UHLW 1 4 de1 954 unused.shaw.ca ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHLWb 1 2 de1 24.64.141/24 link#1 UC 0 0 h24-64-141-1.mt.wa 8:0:3e:1a:b8:97 UHLW 5 0 de0 1166 localhost localhost UH 0 0 lo0 Can someone please tell me what the unused.shaw.ca is. I have no idea what that is. I usually, right after boot up, type /usr/local/sbin/dhcpc de0 then a minuet or so later type natd -interface de0 In all this I don't quite understand why I don't have to type something to reference de1, the 2nd nic card. Greg Lehey if you happen to read this, unless I am blind, in your book The Complete FreeBSD, there is no reference to setting up in this fashion. Is there some way to get my registered domain to point to me? I have a static so long as don't reboot and of course, the cable co. doesn't reboot either. I would be grateful for any help on this. Thank you, Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 23 19:22:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01998 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (root@bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01976 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (willow30.verinet.com [199.45.181.62]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id UAA22283 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:22:27 -0600 Received: (from allenc@localhost) by struct. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01535 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:22:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:22:24 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199806240222.UAA01535@struct.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: IBM ships Apache Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Of general 'open source' interest: http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_2240.html -- Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 23 20:25:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11501 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11478 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24577 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:25:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806240325.UAA24577@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Chat Away 8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 20:25:43 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_2241.html 1. Enterprise-quality technical support. Linux still feels risky to large corporations, who feel they need support from a single point of contact, not from a loose alliance of libertarian programmers. It makes some IT professionals wonder if they could get fired for choosing Linux. Of the three obstacles, this is the easiest one to solve, because it is largely perception versus reality. Companies such as Caldera and Red Hat now offer user-friendly commercial versions with nationwide support. Click for full story. 2. Tier One applications. The leading applications must be available in Linux versions. The situation is improving but very slowly. Corel ships WordPerfect for Linux and plans to develop a suite of business applications. Most other vendors won't do Linux versions until there's enough demand. And there won't be demand until there are enough applications. That leaves Linux trapped between a chicken and an egg. 3. A standard interface. This issue will prove hardest of all because it flies in the face of the Linux gestalt. It's not a technical issue. At least one firm has already built a Win95 clone. Rather it's the problem of getting the fiercely independent Linuxites to agree to a single standard. Remember, the core community is made up of Unix geeks who think graphical interfaces are for sissies. Would you like to see the rug pulled out from under Microsoft? Here's how it could happen. IBM ships and supports Linux. Oracle does Linux versions of all its products. A consortium of top vendors picks a standard Linux interface and creates a compatibility logo. Possible? Absolutely. Microsoft's long-range strategy would come crumbling down if it was forced to give away Windows NT. It plans to upgrade all of us to NT, and charge us twice what it gets for NT. Is a Linux takeover likely? Give me a break. Of course not. Still, as we reported yesterday, IBM is now shipping the freeware Apache Web server. Is it too much to hope that it might ship and support Linux? Click the TalkBack button to tell me what you think. Or jump over to the discussion now underway in my Berst Alerts forum. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 23 21:00:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18017 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:00:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (root@bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17917 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:00:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (willow30.verinet.com [199.45.181.62]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA05540; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:00:02 -0600 Received: (from allenc@localhost) by struct. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01744; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:59:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:59:59 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199806240359.VAA01744@struct.> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Chat Away 8) In-Reply-To: <199806240325.UAA24577@rah.star-gate.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org That quoted well... > From: Amancio Hasty > > > http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_2241.html > > 1. Enterprise-quality technical support. Linux still feels > risky to > large corporations, who feel they need support from a single > point of To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 23 23:28:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13548 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:28:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13458 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:27:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00988 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:27:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806240627.XAA00988@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Chat away 8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:27:25 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_display/0,3440,2114119,00.html The 400MHz Pentium II, which today costs about $720, will drop to $375 in October after price cuts in midsummer and September, sources said. Although Intel does not set system pricing, it expects systems using the 350MHz or 400MHz Pentium II and corresponding 440BX chip set to fall into the $1,500-to-$2,000 range over the next few months, sources said. Today, that price range is occupied by 300MHz and 333MHz systems with the 440LX chip set. -------- I think that I am going to get a couple of 400Mhz Pentium II for my birthday in October 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 24 13:13:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18624 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:13:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18602 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:13:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thomma@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h016b.s86b1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.1.107] (may be forged)) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17170 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com (fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com [134.177.110.46]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07837 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrera.engwest ([134.177.160.237]) by fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) Received: from localhost by carrera.engwest (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA06966; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:11:18 -0700 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: USENIX/BoF at New Orleans X-Mailer: Mew version 1.92 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980624131117N.thomma@baynetworks.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:11:17 -0700 From: Tamiji Homma X-Dispatcher: imput version 971024 Lines: 10 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I am wondering if anyone spends a little time to tell us about how the BoF was in New Orleans? I would like to hear about it :-) Don't you think? Thanks Tammy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 24 18:29:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15892 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newsguy.com (perry.co.pathlink.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15759 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:29:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reyesf@newsguy.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by newsguy.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14063; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806250128.SAA14063@newsguy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:28:26 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 95 (4.0.1111) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862544=_=_=_" Subject: Adaptec and Linux Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862544=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone see the announcement from Adaptec? They are going to have more help for Linux developers. Can the FreeBSD community somehow benefit from this? Wouldn't this be a good time to approach them to ask for documents/loans/etc... for FreeBSD? --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862544=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did anyone see the announcement from Adaptec? They are going to have more help for Linux developers. Can the FreeBSD community somehow benefit from this?

Wouldn't this be a good time to approach them to ask for documents/loans/etc... for FreeBSD?
--_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862544=_=_=_-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 24 19:47:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27915 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27881; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA17913; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:46:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Lanny Baron cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: routing tables and problem understanding the results In-Reply-To: <358FE7A8.A3F4A3B5@shaw.wave.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Lanny Baron wrote: > I have a cable modem, 2 pcs connected via hub, 2 nics in one > pc (one of those nic cards directly attached to modem via ethernet > cable) and 1 nic in the other pc. I do not have static IP. When typing > netstat -r the following appears: > > [beef]$ netstat -r > Routing tables > > Internet: > Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif > Expire > default h24-64-141-1.mt.wa UGSc 4 0 de0 > unused.shaw.ca/24 link#2 UC 0 0 > unused.shaw.ca link#1 UC 0 0 > unused.shaw.ca 0:80:c8:7e:f3:db UHLW 1 4 > de1 954 > unused.shaw.ca ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHLWb 1 2 de1 > 24.64.141/24 link#1 UC 0 0 > h24-64-141-1.mt.wa 8:0:3e:1a:b8:97 UHLW 5 0 de0 > 1166 > localhost localhost UH 0 0 lo0 ok. > Can someone please tell me what the unused.shaw.ca is. I have no > idea what that is. Usually it's a machine, but I don't have a DNS entry for it. Try running `netstat -rn' to determine the real IP it's seeing. > I usually, right after boot up, type /usr/local/sbin/dhcpc de0 then a > minuet or so later type natd -interface de0 ok. I assume you're setting up ipfw's divert socket. > In all this I don't quite understand why I don't have to type > something to reference de1, the 2nd nic card. The ifconfig for de1 takes care of routing your internal net. > Is there some way to get my registered domain to point to me? I have > a static so long as don't reboot and of course, the cable co. doesn't > reboot either. If you have a registered domain, why are you using dhcp? If you have a domain you have to have a static IP (or using DDNS in which casse you were supplied a client to use). Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 24 20:22:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02699 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02687 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id UAA17857 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:22:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum" Message-Id: <199806250322.UAA17857@shell6.ba.best.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: new MS add campaign Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I hear the slogan for Win98 add compaign will be "Works better. Plays better". Hmm.. then FreeBSD should be "It works. While you play" :) -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 24 20:35:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04592 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:35:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (root@jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04567 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id UAA26326; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:34:51 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id UAA23363; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:24:38 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Francisco Reyes cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Adaptec and Linux In-Reply-To: <199806250128.SAA14063@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Francisco Reyes wrote: >Did anyone see the announcement from Adaptec? They are going to have >more help for Linux developers. Can the FreeBSD community somehow >benefit from this? > >Wouldn't this be a good time to approach them to ask for >documents/loans/etc... for FreeBSD? This would be a great time to get adaptec to release all driver source code. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ | 206-633-5994 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 25 10:15:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14083 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:15:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14040 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:15:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@narnia.plutotech.com) Received: (from gibbs@localhost) by narnia.plutotech.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA23057; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:10:09 -0600 (MDT) From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Message-Id: <199806251710.LAA23057@narnia.plutotech.com> To: "Francisco Reyes" cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adaptec and Linux Newsgroups: pluto.freebsd.chat In-Reply-To: <199806250128.SAA14063@newsguy.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971204 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-CURRENT (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Did anyone see the announcement from Adaptec? >From Adaptec or Red Hat? I saw the Red Hat one. > They are going to have more help for Linux developers. Can the > FreeBSD community somehow benefit from this? Adaptec isn't dense. They know full well where all of the aic7xxx driver development is going on and have offered direct support to me as well as the Linux devlopers porting my code. The stuff in the Red Hat announcement makes me laugh though. They make it sound like having Adaptec on their side will solve all of their problems. Support from Adaptec is greatly appreciated, but 95% of the instability problems in the Linux driver can be traced to the mid-level SCSI code. Unless Adaptec funds the rewrite of the Linux SCSI layer, no amount of Adaptec provided source code will help them. I'm still waiting for Adaptec to release sequencer source code (something that the technical marketing people are fighting for) which should aid in working around the aic7880 Rev. B chip problem, but as I've mentioned before, moving to the Adaptec CHIM code would actually reduce the performance of our driver. Adaptec sent me a sequencer design document which verrified that they use a simple SCB management scheme that doesn't fully utilize the capabilities of their chips. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 25 10:18:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14885 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14870 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:18:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07964; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:18:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806251718.KAA07964@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: "Francisco Reyes" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adaptec and Linux In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:10:09 MDT." <199806251710.LAA23057@narnia.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:18:46 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Justin, It is just a publicity stunt and it helps to promote Linux. Best Regards, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 25 15:36:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12455 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12330 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:35:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA09966; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:29:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: Amancio Hasty cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chat Away 8) In-Reply-To: <199806240325.UAA24577@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_2241.html > [...] >2. Tier One applications. The leading applications must be available >in Linux versions. The situation is improving but very slowly. Corel >ships WordPerfect for Linux and plans to develop a suite of business >applications. Most other vendors won't do Linux versions until WordPerfect for Linux works very well on FreeBSD and the pricing is now reasonable (under $100, even less for an academic version). What's really good about it is that the Windows95/NT version is also pretty cheap and document files can be exchanged between the two. [...] Annelise To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 11:57:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08079 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:57:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08063 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:57:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22217; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:57:43 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id UAA06865; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:57:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980626205731.28920@follo.net> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:57:31 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Dennis , David Kelly , Greg Lehey Cc: dyson@iquest.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) References: <19980625182109.D356@freebie.lemis.com> <199806260315.WAA12310@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199806261729.NAA03089@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806261729.NAA03089@etinc.com>; from Dennis on Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:26:48PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:26:48PM -0400, Dennis wrote: > How about BSD/OS2. > > that should confuse the crap out of everyone, but might confuse the magazines > enough to get serious coverage. > > Might be some lawsuits though :( Hey, it'd only break TWO trademarks... The name discussion will be resolved outside the FreeBSD mailing lists. Even though there are many people that work/have worked on *BSD involved, it is not a FreeBSD matter (as long as we avoid stepping on their trademarks, and this is the same relationship as to any other random trademarkholder). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 19:31:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26027 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:31:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25997 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:31:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-33.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.33]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA09270 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:31:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15296 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:14:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806270214.VAA15296@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0 (was: Here is what I promised :-)) In-reply-to: Message from Dennis of "Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:26:48 EDT." <199806261729.NAA03089@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:14:40 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dennis writes: > How about BSD/OS2. > > that should confuse the crap out of everyone, but might confuse the magazines > enough to get serious coverage. "BeSD/OS2" would work one more OS in there, distancing it from BSD, but still pronounced the same. And opening it up to the possible wrath of Be's lawyers. Fortunately copyright law allows use for parody. So everyone is safe as long as we're discussing it for chuckles. >From what little I've heard of G2, it and BeOS have more than a little in common. Both are re-thinks and re-writes with the goals of breaking traditional barriers. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 20:38:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04185 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04179 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:38:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@dialA1f.aei.ca [206.123.6.51]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22243 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:36:21 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Does it's true? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who think than you are all paranoïd ;-) Malartre -- -------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 21:44:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10783 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10774 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:44:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-1-175.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.136.49]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.0) id XAA26078; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:43:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA22828; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:44:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627044411.ZM22825@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 04:44:10 +0000 In-Reply-To: Malartre "Does it's true?" (Jun 26, 11:36pm) References: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Malartre , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id VAA10776 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 26, 11:36pm, Malartre wrote: > Subject: Does it's true? > Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do > not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who > think than you are all paranoïd ;-) > > Malartre > -- > -------------------------------------- > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 > -------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Malartre Where did you ever get this idea. You obviously have not spent any time in the States to hold such an idea. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 21:51:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA11429 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:51:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11422 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrG-15.aei.ca [206.186.205.65]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28425; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <359479A4.591E118D@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:48:36 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> <980627044411.ZM22825@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Frank Pawlak wrote: > > On Jun 26, 11:36pm, Malartre wrote: > > Subject: Does it's true? > > Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do > > not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who > > think than you are all paranoïd ;-) > > > > Malartre > > -- > > -------------------------------------- > > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 > > -------------------------------------- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > >-- End of excerpt from Malartre > > Where did you ever get this idea. You obviously have not spent any time in the > States to hold such an idea. > > Frank You may think I see to much movie =) I get this idea from general media and friends who have live in the US. Well, maybe they where talking about some specific place. I dont want to generalise. Malartre -- -------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 22:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13624 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:13:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13586 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:12:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id OAA23199; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:42:33 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980627144233.C23035@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:42:33 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Malartre , Frank Pawlak Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> <980627044411.ZM22825@darkstar.connect.com> <359479A4.591E118D@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <359479A4.591E118D@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 12:48:36AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 0:48:36 -0400, Malartre wrote: > Frank Pawlak wrote: >> On Jun 26, 11:36pm, Malartre wrote: >>> Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do >>> not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who >>> think than you are all paranoïd ;-) >> >> Where did you ever get this idea. You obviously have not spent any time in the >> States to hold such an idea. > > You may think I see to much movie =) > I get this idea from general media and friends who have live in the US. > Well, maybe they where talking about some specific place. I dont want to > generalise. In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by a Tasmanian devil. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 22:23:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14872 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:23:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14857 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA16424; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:32:26 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806270532.PAA16424@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <19980627144233.C23035@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jun 27, 98 02:42:33 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:32:26 +1000 (EST) Cc: malartre@aei.ca, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness > there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by > a Tasmanian devil. But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. A few months ago I was late getting home and I came across another bike rider lying on his side on the road having spoilt the nice paint job on his bike. He didn't hit the kangaroo. It jumped on _him_. What else can you expect just outside a town called Kangaroo Ground? Definitely safer to stay inside at night here. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 22:28:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15556 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15551 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id OAA23233; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:58:02 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980627145802.E23035@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:58:02 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell Cc: malartre@aei.ca, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <19980627144233.C23035@freebie.lemis.com> <199806270532.PAA16424@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806270532.PAA16424@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 03:32:26PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 15:32:26 +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness >> there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by >> a Tasmanian devil. > > But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. Sure, that's what he said: after 9 pm. > A few months ago I was late getting home and I came across another > bike rider lying on his side on the road having spoilt the nice > paint job on his bike. He didn't hit the kangaroo. It jumped on > _him_. What else can you expect just outside a town called Kangaroo > Ground? Don't know that one. There's a Flat Kangaroo just near Bendigo, though. The kangaroos round here aren't much of a problem, at least not in the day time. First, our horses are (just) faster, and secondly they (the kangaroos) are scared of the devils. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 22:31:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15921 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15907 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (ferengal-2-69.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.128.197]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id AAA13189; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:31:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id AAA23332; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:31:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627053121.ZM23329@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 05:31:21 +0000 In-Reply-To: Malartre "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 12:48am) References: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> <980627044411.ZM22825@darkstar.connect.com> <359479A4.591E118D@aei.ca> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Malartre , Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA15910 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 12:48am, Malartre wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > > On Jun 26, 11:36pm, Malartre wrote: > > > Subject: Does it's true? > > > Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do > > > not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who > > > think than you are all paranoïd ;-) > > > > > > Malartre > > > -- > > > -------------------------------------- > > > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > > > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 > > > -------------------------------------- > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > >-- End of excerpt from Malartre > > > > Where did you ever get this idea. You obviously have not spent any time in the > > States to hold such an idea. > > > > Frank > You may think I see to much movie =) > I get this idea from general media and friends who have live in the US. > Well, maybe they where talking about some specific place. I dont want to > generalise. > > Malartre > -- > -------------------------------------- > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 > -------------------------------------- >-- End of excerpt from Malartre Well I can assure you that, except in very small towns, it is not true. I am not sure if you are just making jokes or if you are concerned about the violence that occurs in the US from time to time. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 22:35:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16278 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16263 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:35:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrG-15.aei.ca [206.186.205.65]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00629; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <359483EE.FAE63F8E@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:32:30 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> <980627044411.ZM22825@darkstar.connect.com> <359479A4.591E118D@aei.ca> <980627053121.ZM23329@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Frank Pawlak wrote: > > On Jun 27, 12:48am, Malartre wrote: > > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > > Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 26, 11:36pm, Malartre wrote: > > > > Subject: Does it's true? > > > > Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do > > > > not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who > > > > think than you are all paranoïd ;-) > > > > > > > > Malartre > > > > -- > > > > -------------------------------------- > > > > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > > > > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 > > > > -------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > >-- End of excerpt from Malartre > > > > > > Where did you ever get this idea. You obviously have not spent any time in > the > > > States to hold such an idea. > > > > > > Frank > > You may think I see to much movie =) > > I get this idea from general media and friends who have live in the US. > > Well, maybe they where talking about some specific place. I dont want to > > generalise. > > > > Malartre > > -- > > -------------------------------------- > > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 > > -------------------------------------- > >-- End of excerpt from Malartre > > Well I can assure you that, except in very small towns, it is not true. I am > not sure if you are just making jokes or if you are concerned about the > violence that occurs in the US from time to time. > > Frank Well, maybe both :-) Malartre -- -------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 -------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 22:37:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16596 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:37:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16588 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA16660; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:46:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806270546.PAA16660@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <19980627145802.E23035@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Jun 27, 98 02:58:02 pm" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:46:15 +1000 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, malartre@aei.ca, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 15:32:26 +1000, John Birrell wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness > >> there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by > >> a Tasmanian devil. > > > > But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. > > Sure, that's what he said: after 9 pm. Try 5:30 pm in autumn/winter. > Don't know that one. There's a Flat Kangaroo just near Bendigo, > though. The kangaroos round here aren't much of a problem, at least > not in the day time. First, our horses are (just) faster, and > secondly they (the kangaroos) are scared of the devils. Stay away from Kangaroo Ground just outside Eltham in Vic then. There's at least one kangaroo that jumps of a bank onto passing motorbikes and gets his man every time. It doesn't matter how fast you can (or do) go. And in some places, the only problem they have is their kids taking guns to school. Duh. 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 22:37:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16634 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:37:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16607 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:37:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (ferengal-2-69.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.128.197]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id AAA17013; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:37:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id AAA23339; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:37:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627053718.ZM23338@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 05:37:18 +0000 In-Reply-To: John Birrell "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 3:32pm) References: <199806270532.PAA16424@cimlogic.com.au> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: John Birrell , grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: malartre@aei.ca, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 3:32pm, John Birrell wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > Greg Lehey wrote: > > In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness > > there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by > > a Tasmanian devil. > > But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. A few > months ago I was late getting home and I came across another bike rider > lying on his side on the road having spoilt the nice paint job on his > bike. He didn't hit the kangaroo. It jumped on _him_. What else can > you expect just outside a town called Kangaroo Ground? > > Definitely safer to stay inside at night here. We have problems in the US, at least in the upper Midwest, with deer on the highways getting hit by automobiles and trucks. But have never heard of one hitting someone on a bike. So we must be relatively safe here in the Great Lakes region of the US. :-) Frank > > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 >-- End of excerpt from John Birrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 22:55:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18241 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:55:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA18230 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrG-15.aei.ca [206.186.205.65]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA01725; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35948886.54C628A4@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:52:06 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak CC: John Birrell , Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <199806270532.PAA16424@cimlogic.com.au> <980627053718.ZM23338@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Frank Pawlak wrote: > > On Jun 27, 3:32pm, John Birrell wrote: > > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness > > > there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by > > > a Tasmanian devil. > > > > But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. A few > > months ago I was late getting home and I came across another bike rider > > lying on his side on the road having spoilt the nice paint job on his > > bike. He didn't hit the kangaroo. It jumped on _him_. What else can > > you expect just outside a town called Kangaroo Ground? > > > > Definitely safer to stay inside at night here. > > We have problems in the US, at least in the upper Midwest, with deer on the > highways getting hit by automobiles and trucks. But have never heard of one > hitting someone on a bike. So we must be relatively safe here in the Great > Lakes region of the US. :-) > > Frank > > > > > -- > > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 > >-- End of excerpt from John Birrell Here in quebec.ca, there is white bear who take some snack in inuit town =) -- Malartre [malartre@aei.ca] [http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] [ICQ#4224434] [FreeBSD] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 23:00:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA18983 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA18964 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA23335; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:30:37 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980627153036.F23035@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:30:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell Cc: malartre@aei.ca, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <19980627145802.E23035@freebie.lemis.com> <199806270546.PAA16660@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806270546.PAA16660@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 03:46:15PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 15:46:15 +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 15:32:26 +1000, John Birrell wrote: >>> Greg Lehey wrote: >>>> In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness >>>> there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by >>>> a Tasmanian devil. >>> >>> But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. >> >> Sure, that's what he said: after 9 pm. > > Try 5:30 pm in autumn/winter. Sure, but Malatre said 9 pm. >> Don't know that one. There's a Flat Kangaroo just near Bendigo, >> though. The kangaroos round here aren't much of a problem, at least >> not in the day time. First, our horses are (just) faster, and >> secondly they (the kangaroos) are scared of the devils. > > Stay away from Kangaroo Ground just outside Eltham in Vic then. There's at > least one kangaroo that jumps of a bank onto passing motorbikes and gets his > man every time. It doesn't matter how fast you can (or do) go. We used to have a rogue kangaroo like that round here a while back, but one day we got all the tried and trusted kangaroo hunters from the stations near and far together and we went and caught the bastard. Now if we could just get a couple of those devils. > And in some places, the only problem they have is their kids taking guns > to school. Duh. 8-) Right. They don't know how lucky they are. And here we're not even allowed a gun to protect ourselves from the devils. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 23:10:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20112 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20026 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:10:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (ferengal-2-69.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.128.197]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.0) id BAA29269; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:10:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA23423; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:10:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627061017.ZM23422@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:10:17 +0000 In-Reply-To: Malartre "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 1:32am) References: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> <980627044411.ZM22825@darkstar.connect.com> <359479A4.591E118D@aei.ca> <980627053121.ZM23329@darkstar.connect.com> <359483EE.FAE63F8E@aei.ca> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Malartre Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have a serious question for you. I am not sure that I have all spelling and names straight. So if some of the names and nationalities that I ask about are not correct, please excuse my ignorance. You appear to be a French Canadian. I am interested in someone called Evangeline that is in some way connected to the Arcadian French that settled in Canada. When I was in the Army, I spent a lot of time in Louisiana among the Cajun people. I believe that they are Arcadian French that migrated and settled in southern Louisiana. They sing a very beautiful song about Evangeline, who is either a saint or some type of hero. Can you give me any information on this. Thanks in advance. Frank > > Frank > Well, maybe both :-) > Malartre > -- > -------------------------------------- > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD-2.2.6 > -------------------------------------- >-- End of excerpt from Malartre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 23:16:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20664 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:16:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20659 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:16:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (ferengal-2-69.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.128.197]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id BAA18064; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:16:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA23453; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:16:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627061637.ZM23452@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:16:37 +0000 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 3:30pm) References: <19980627145802.E23035@freebie.lemis.com> <199806270546.PAA16660@cimlogic.com.au> <19980627153036.F23035@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Greg Lehey , John Birrell Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: malartre@aei.ca, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am under the impression that parts of Australia are much like the Old American West, with cowboys that carry guns, drink a lot and then get into gunfights. ;-) Now adays we have people in the cities that carry guns, do some drugs and get into gunfights. Frank > > > And in some places, the only problem they have is their kids taking guns > > to school. Duh. 8-) > > Right. They don't know how lucky they are. And here we're not even > allowed a gun to protect ourselves from the devils. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key >-- End of excerpt from Greg Lehey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 23:24:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21160 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21155 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:24:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA16831; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:33:57 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806270633.QAA16831@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <980627061637.ZM23452@darkstar.connect.com> from Frank Pawlak at "Jun 27, 98 06:16:37 am" To: fpawlak@execpc.com (Frank Pawlak) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:33:57 +1000 (EST) Cc: grog@lemis.com, jb@cimlogic.com.au, malartre@aei.ca, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Frank Pawlak wrote: > I am under the impression that parts of Australia are much like the Old > American West, with cowboys that carry guns, drink a lot and then get into > gunfights. ;-) Nope. Carrying a gun here is very rare. Our government has just spent hundreds of millions of dollars buying back people's guns that are now illegal. This week we had a court ruling that reinforces the state law that you have to have a shooter's licence to play with paint-ball guns on private ranges. Next it'll be water pistols too. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 23:33:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21807 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21789 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (ferengal-2-69.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.128.197]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id BAA18524; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:32:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA23523; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:33:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627063311.ZM23522@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 06:33:11 +0000 In-Reply-To: John Birrell "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 4:33pm) References: <199806270633.QAA16831@cimlogic.com.au> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: John Birrell , fpawlak@execpc.com (Frank Pawlak) Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: grog@lemis.com, malartre@aei.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 4:33pm, John Birrell wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > Frank Pawlak wrote: > > I am under the impression that parts of Australia are much like the Old > > American West, with cowboys that carry guns, drink a lot and then get into > > gunfights. ;-) > > Nope. Carrying a gun here is very rare. Our government has just spent > hundreds of millions of dollars buying back people's guns that are now > illegal. > > This week we had a court ruling that reinforces the state law that you > have to have a shooter's licence to play with paint-ball guns on private > ranges. Next it'll be water pistols too. > Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are entirely too many guns walking around. Some of these kids with guns are better armed than I was when I was in the Army. The situation is so bad that I don't believe that the US Marine Corps could get control of the situation without major distruction of the central parts of some cities. Gun buy back policies were tried here also. Hell they just sold the old ones and used the money to by more powerful weapons. Frank > -- > John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ > CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 >-- End of excerpt from John Birrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 26 23:42:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22994 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA22980 for ; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:42:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrG-15.aei.ca [206.186.205.65]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03497; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <359493AD.8A8281ED@aei.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:39:41 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> <980627044411.ZM22825@darkstar.connect.com> <359479A4.591E118D@aei.ca> <980627053121.ZM23329@darkstar.connect.com> <359483EE.FAE63F8E@aei.ca> <980627061017.ZM23422@darkstar.connect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Frank Pawlak wrote: > > I have a serious question for you. I am not sure that I have all spelling and > names straight. So if some of the names and nationalities that I ask about are > not correct, please excuse my ignorance. You appear to be a French Canadian. I > am interested in someone called Evangeline that is in some way connected to the > Arcadian French that settled in Canada. > > When I was in the Army, I spent a lot of time in Louisiana among the Cajun > people. I believe that they are Arcadian French that migrated and settled in > southern Louisiana. They sing a very beautiful song about Evangeline, who is > either a saint or some type of hero. Can you give me any information on this. > > Thanks in advance. > > Frank "Acadian" are not the same thing than French people in quebec. They are in majority in New Brunswick, Ile du Prince Edouard and Nova Scotia. Evangeline was a heroes because she was separated of her husband Gabriel for the massive acadian deportation/assimilation to France, english colonies(even australia) and USA. There is a town somewhere in Acadie where there is a church and a big Statue of Evangeline. Well, there is a lot of explanation on the horror of the deportation, how the english where so much evils ;-) The history of Evangeline is now used in songs and theatre. It's a myth. My traduction is not has romantic has in french :-) "In 1847, Henry-Wadsworth Longfellow, an american, published a poem named Évangeline where he tell us how was the deportation for Évangeline and Gabriel, who where living in Port-Royal After being separated of her husband by evil english, she will search him a lot in Louisiana. She finaly decide to give her life to the "Soeurs de la Charité" in Philadelphia. After a lot of time, she find him in an hospital, where he was dying." snif snif Malartre http://www.rpa.ca/acadie/evangi.htm ~ Mythe d'Acadie -- [Malartre] [malartre@aei.ca][ICQ#4224434][www.aei.ca/~malartre/][www.FreeBSD.ORG] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 00:44:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02000 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stratos.net ([209.119.12.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01995 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:44:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drifter@stratos.net) From: drifter@stratos.net Received: (from drifter@localhost) by stratos.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id DAA01003; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980627034631.A944@stratos.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:46:31 -0400 To: Frank Pawlak Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <199806270633.QAA16831@cimlogic.com.au> <980627063311.ZM23522@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <980627063311.ZM23522@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:33:11AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:33:11AM +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > On Jun 27, 4:33pm, John Birrell wrote: > > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > > Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > I am under the impression that parts of Australia are much like the Old > > > American West, with cowboys that carry guns, drink a lot and then get into > > > gunfights. ;-) > > > > Nope. Carrying a gun here is very rare. Our government has just spent > > hundreds of millions of dollars buying back people's guns that are now > > illegal. > > > > This week we had a court ruling that reinforces the state law that you > > have to have a shooter's licence to play with paint-ball guns on private > > ranges. Next it'll be water pistols too. > > > > Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are entirely too many > guns walking around. Some of these kids with guns are better armed than I was ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ Interesting choice of words, possibly indicative of perspective? Personification of guns, or "guns walking around", is probably a phrase uttered by a gun-control advocate, whereas "criminals walking around with guns" is maybe more likely to be spoken of by an NRA advocate. Now, "kids walking around with guns," that's a toss-up! -Rob "Not to put words in to anybody's mouth :)" -- drifter@stratos.nospam.net (remove nospam to send) "Ever notice that in every commercial about the Internet, advertising geniuses can't resist having a bunch of kids staring into a monitor, awe- struck, looking at a whale jumping out of the ocean? Or is it just me?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 01:17:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA05886 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA05869 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27546; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:17:13 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980627181709.21088@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:17:09 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Frank Pawlak Cc: Greg Lehey , John Birrell , malartre@aei.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <19980627145802.E23035@freebie.lemis.com> <199806270546.PAA16660@cimlogic.com.au> <19980627153036.F23035@freebie.lemis.com> <980627061637.ZM23452@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <980627061637.ZM23452@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:16:37AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:16:37AM +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > I am under the impression that parts of Australia are much like the Old > American West, with cowboys that carry guns, drink a lot and then get into > gunfights. ;-) Around here they carry mobile phones, drink a lot, and then fall asleep in front of TV. They can't go out after 9pm, they're alseep at 8. Most take-away food places close at 6 or 7pm. Crazy! In Sydney I'd go out looking for food some time after 10pm and walk home alone a couple of hours later. There were still enough people walking around to feel safe. Away from the city, where only loonies go out after dark and there's dark deserted streets with pot holes and no-one to hear you scream, people say they fear the city. I'll never understand. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 01:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11301 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:57:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11279 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA17321; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:57:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:57:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806270857.CAA17321@softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Does it's true? From: Wes Peters To: fpawlak@execpc.com, drifter@stratos.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: <19980627034631.A944@stratos.net> References: <19980627034631.A944@stratos.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 (TrialWare) X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA11291 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My hidden microphone recorded (drifter@stratos.net) saying: % > Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are entirely too % many % > guns walking around. Some of these kids with guns are better armed than I % was % ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ % % Interesting choice of words, possibly indicative of perspective? % Personification of guns, or "guns walking around", is probably % a phrase uttered by a gun-control advocate, whereas "criminals walking % around with guns" is maybe more likely to be spoken of by an NRA advocate. No, it's well known that guns walk around by themselves here in the USA. Sometimes they have people attached to them, but the people are not responsible for any crimes committed, because the problem is the guns. The people attached to the guns are just another class of victim. Right, Frank? % Now, "kids walking around with guns," that's a toss-up! That would depend on the kids, and where they are walking. Personally, I wouldn't send anyone out walking in Wind River Mountains without a rifle. The US Park Service take all the bears that become a problem to people in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks and dump them into the north end of the Wind Rivers, which is otherwise backpackers mecca. As much as I support the right of the bears to their territory, their right ends as soon as they try to kill me. I'll take ME every time. Your mileage may vary. If you relish the idea of being eaten by the local fauna, let me know. I know where a cougar lives who is big enough to jump a 200-lb deer carcass onto a rock ledge 7 feet off the ground. I'm certain he'd enjoy eating a gun control advocate or two. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 02:08:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12543 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12504; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA23661; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:38:14 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980627183814.I23035@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:38:14 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Ken McGlothlen Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, Arne Woerner , FreeBSD Chat Subject: "Child-endangering sites" (was: Arne Woerner) Reply-To: FreeBSD Chat References: <199806270737.AAA13074@ralf.serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806270737.AAA13074@ralf.serv.net>; from Ken McGlothlen on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 12:37:02AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (Removed John Fieber from the list; he's not responsible for the web site any more. Wolfram Schneider is). On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 0:37:02 -0700, Ken McGlothlen wrote: > Mr Woerner's complaints have to do with the following links on the > www.freebsd.org/cgallery.html page: > > http://www.freexxxvideo.com/ (All Free XXX Videos) > http://www.netpics.com/ (NetPics) > http://www.persiankitty.com/ (WWW.PersianKitty.COM) > > He feels that the links should be removed because they are "child-endangering." > > Personally, I feel that (a) the FreeBSD site isn't really designed for children > anyway, (b) the guy is just an overzealous moralizer out to gripe, (c) they are > FreeBSD-powered sites, and it's not the job of freebsd.org to make judgments. In case you don't know, a German court recently came to a verdict which I consider completely ridiculous: ISPs are responsible for *all* data passing through their network. Interestingly, the phone company isn't: another judgement has loosened the requirements for phone monitoring. I consider this the latest in a line of stupid, short-sighted and ill-informed judgements by German courts. I don't condone that kind of site, but the expectation that ISPs should monitor all traffic is not just ridiculous, it infringes on other basic rights of privacy, which until recently was regarded very highly in German society. I would guess that: 1. Arne is complaining more out of a sense of obligation than any real interest in the matter. Most Germans I know aren't too worried about pornography on the net. Many German "family" magazines frequently have photos of half-naked women. 2. He seems to be relating to www.de.FreeBSD.org, not www.FreeBSD.org; at least he has now complained to the people who run www.de.FreeBSD.org. I suppose they'll be forced to take it seriously, given the current legal situation. 3. He's complaining about links, not content. Not even the German courts can expect people to follow all links through to the bitter end to ensure they don't have any multiple indirect pointers to subject material which may at some time be indecent. > Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of the page that says > > Some of these sites contain material not suitable for children. Please > consider yourself forewarned. > > and not removing the links would be enough. I hate seeing people cave into > hypermoralists. I think that would be too much already. I see no reason to change things unless somebody decides to remove the links altogether. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 05:37:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08276 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 05:37:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA08269 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 05:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA17276 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:11:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199806271211.IAA17276@hda.hda.com> Subject: Vacation To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm away for two weeks. Mail to dufault@freebsd.org will be checked. I'll be off all the mailing lists. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 07:14:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA16164 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:14:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (intranet.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16129 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andre@pipeline.ch) Received: from pipeline.ch ([195.134.140.2]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA264; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:12:41 +0200 Message-ID: <3594FE18.59A362B@pipeline.ch> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:13:45 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat CC: Ken McGlothlen , Arne Woerner Subject: Re: "Child-endangering sites" (was: Arne Woerner) References: <199806270737.AAA13074@ralf.serv.net> <19980627183814.I23035@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > (Removed John Fieber from the list; he's not responsible for the web > site any more. Wolfram Schneider is). > > On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 0:37:02 -0700, Ken McGlothlen wrote: > > Mr Woerner's complaints have to do with the following links on the > > www.freebsd.org/cgallery.html page: > > > > http://www.freexxxvideo.com/ (All Free XXX Videos) > > http://www.netpics.com/ (NetPics) > > http://www.persiankitty.com/ (WWW.PersianKitty.COM) > > > > He feels that the links should be removed because they are "child-endangering." > > > > Personally, I feel that (a) the FreeBSD site isn't really designed for children > > anyway, (b) the guy is just an overzealous moralizer out to gripe, (c) they are > > FreeBSD-powered sites, and it's not the job of freebsd.org to make judgments. > > In case you don't know, a German court recently came to a verdict > which I consider completely ridiculous: ISPs are responsible for *all* > data passing through their network. Interestingly, the phone company > isn't: another judgement has loosened the requirements for phone > monitoring. Please don't mix up the stuff that is going on in Germany. There are several things going on: 1. A new telecommunications law - it contains requirements for monitoring any telecommunication by law enforcement agencies [It seems that the integration of the former East Germany is success- ful, we all get now the intelligence system they had to control their people.] 2. Some court cases - one against the former Compuserve German boss for not filtering / controlling the access to the USENET via Compuserve as access provider [The former Compserver Germany boss, Felix Somm, was found guilty by the jude. This case was based on the law to protect minors from pornography.] - one against a member of the german parliament for a link to a terroristic magazine on a dutch server [Not guilty because the offending articley about 'how to unrail a train' was put online after she made the link.] - one other case against someone who linked also to a site with (in Germany) unlawful material [Guilty, "you are responsible for the content of pages you link to"] 3. Plans to restrict the use of cryptographic systems [Faces some opposition from the German Internet community] The problem with all that judges and state attorneys is that they have no clue about the nature of the Internet, not even a computer. The rulings of the judges are still typed on old IBM typewriters with 3 or so real carbon copies... The best case of all was a man who found a cild porn site and walked down to his local police station to make them aware of it. He was told that they can't do anything without the actual pictures, so the men copied everything on a floppy and walked again to the police station to give it to them. After that they throwed him into jail for owning child porn because that's not permitted by law... > I consider this the latest in a line of stupid, short-sighted and > ill-informed judgements by German courts. I don't condone that kind > of site, but the expectation that ISPs should monitor all traffic is > not just ridiculous, it infringes on other basic rights of privacy, > which until recently was regarded very highly in German society. Yea, but things changed after the merger with the former East Germany. They changed lot of things, even the constituion, to 'fight the against organized crime'. At the same time the police can't buy new computers (they have some 286 boxes with DOS) because of budget cuttings... It's really short sighted... The 'concept' of the law enforcement agencies seems be to catch the 'distributers' (eg. ISP's) of the material because it's easier than tracing down the emitters of that stuff (who are often outside of Germany). > I would guess that: > > 1. Arne is complaining more out of a sense of obligation than any > real interest in the matter. Most Germans I know aren't too > worried about pornography on the net. Many German "family" > magazines frequently have photos of half-naked women. Yea, naked people on the covers are fairly standard. Try for example www.max.de, a livestyle magazine. This cover features the stars of a popular daily soap. This type of nuditiy is considered not to harm minors. Try to put this magazine on the front layouts of any US news stand, you'll probably find yourself in jail after 5 minutes. > 2. He seems to be relating to www.de.FreeBSD.org, not > www.FreeBSD.org; at least he has now complained to the people who > run www.de.FreeBSD.org. I suppose they'll be forced to take it > seriously, given the current legal situation. Thats true. The allegation would be that they did not protect minors from clicking on those links. > 3. He's complaining about links, not content. Not even the German > courts can expect people to follow all links through to the bitter > end to ensure they don't have any multiple indirect pointers to > subject material which may at some time be indecent. No, they complain only on the first link, not everyone that follows than (at the moment, but that might change...). > > Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of the page that says > > > > Some of these sites contain material not suitable for children. Please > > consider yourself forewarned. > > > > and not removing the links would be enough. I hate seeing people cave into > > hypermoralists. > > I think that would be too much already. I see no reason to change > things unless somebody decides to remove the links altogether. Removing the links would be the only thing that helps, simple warnings are not suficient. -- Andre PS: I'm german, but live and work currently in Switzerland (here we don't have such problems) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 07:49:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA19183 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:49:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (www.degnet.baynet.de [194.95.214.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA19164; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malte@webmore.com) Received: from neuron.webmore.com (unverified [194.95.214.171]) by cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:50:58 +0200 Received: (from malte@webmore.com) by neuron.webmore.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04578; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:46:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19980627183814.I23035@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:46:01 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: malte@webmore.com From: Malte Lance To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: RE: "Child-endangering sites" (was: Arne Woerner) Cc: Arne Woerner , questions@FreeBSD.ORG, Ken McGlothlen Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh dear, this seems to be the direct result of the TKÜV and the effort of Bundesinnenministerium to regulate the german privacy. Once there was a time in germany where you could not be condemned for action there was no law for. Now there seems to come the time, where you could be sued for everything except what is explicit allowed by law. Instead of catching the real bad guy's on the internet, the german politicians and executives stick with "catch and sue what can be catched and sued for now", means get all the provider that make the exchange of any data (also offending data) possible. The effect is, that a subculture of denouncers is growing, now building a base for a neo-Stasi institution. Mr Woerner seems to be one of them. A few days ago i read an article in a newspaper or magazine about a german guy, that found a german server with forbidden porn-material. This guy called the police and told them about it. The police-men told him to save the stuff and bring it to the police-station. He did and was sued for having forbidden porn-material. Mr Woerner, if you want to protect your children from accessing the offending sites, just install a firewall and block all traffic from/to that sites. Greg, seems you did the right thing when moving to australia. I don't think the australian people are in an regulation-amok as the german politicians are. Malte. On 27-Jun-98 Greg Lehey wrote: > (Removed John Fieber from the list; he's not responsible for the web > site any more. Wolfram Schneider is). > > On Saturday, 27 June 1998 at 0:37:02 -0700, Ken McGlothlen wrote: >> Mr Woerner's complaints have to do with the following links on the >> www.freebsd.org/cgallery.html page: >> >> http://www.freexxxvideo.com/ (All Free XXX Videos) >> http://www.netpics.com/ (NetPics) >> http://www.persiankitty.com/ (WWW.PersianKitty.COM) >> >> He feels that the links should be removed because they are >> "child-endangering." >> >> Personally, I feel that (a) the FreeBSD site isn't really designed for >> children >> anyway, (b) the guy is just an overzealous moralizer out to gripe, (c) they >> are >> FreeBSD-powered sites, and it's not the job of freebsd.org to make >> judgments. > > In case you don't know, a German court recently came to a verdict > which I consider completely ridiculous: ISPs are responsible for *all* > data passing through their network. Interestingly, the phone company > isn't: another judgement has loosened the requirements for phone > monitoring. > > I consider this the latest in a line of stupid, short-sighted and > ill-informed judgements by German courts. I don't condone that kind > of site, but the expectation that ISPs should monitor all traffic is > not just ridiculous, it infringes on other basic rights of privacy, > which until recently was regarded very highly in German society. > > I would guess that: > > 1. Arne is complaining more out of a sense of obligation than any > real interest in the matter. Most Germans I know aren't too > worried about pornography on the net. Many German "family" > magazines frequently have photos of half-naked women. > > 2. He seems to be relating to www.de.FreeBSD.org, not > www.FreeBSD.org; at least he has now complained to the people who > run www.de.FreeBSD.org. I suppose they'll be forced to take it > seriously, given the current legal situation. > > 3. He's complaining about links, not content. Not even the German > courts can expect people to follow all links through to the bitter > end to ensure they don't have any multiple indirect pointers to > subject material which may at some time be indecent. > >> Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of the page that says >> >> Some of these sites contain material not suitable for children. Please >> consider yourself forewarned. >> >> and not removing the links would be enough. I hate seeing people cave into >> hypermoralists. > > I think that would be too much already. I see no reason to change > things unless somebody decides to remove the links altogether. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Malte Lance Date: 27-Jun-98 Time: 16:04:14 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 09:29:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29577 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:29:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29562 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24093; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:29:43 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA14433; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:29:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980627182937.40983@follo.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:29:37 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Wes Peters , fpawlak@execpc.com, drifter@stratos.net Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <19980627034631.A944@stratos.net> <199806270857.CAA17321@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806270857.CAA17321@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 02:57:26AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 02:57:26AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > My hidden microphone recorded (drifter@stratos.net) saying: >>> Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are >>> entirely too many guns walking around. Some of these kids with >>> ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ >> >> Interesting choice of words, possibly indicative of perspective? >> Personification of guns, or "guns walking around", is probably >> a phrase uttered by a gun-control advocate, whereas "criminals walking >> around with guns" is maybe more likely to be spoken of by an NRA advocate. > > No, it's well known that guns walk around by themselves here in > the USA. Sometimes they have people attached to them, but the > people are not responsible for any crimes committed, because the > problem is the guns. The people attached to the guns are just > another class of victim. > > Right, Frank? No, "Wrong, Wes." There are clear problems with having a large amount of handguns. Handguns are more effective weapons than knives, thus you get more dead people when criminals use guns instead of knives. This happen when you allow people to get weapons that are intended for use on humans easily, and is worsened by a culture (e.g, the US culture) where it is considered OK to murder people. (If you, the reader, say to yourself that you don't consider it OK, then you'd better be actively opposing the use of death penalty - otherwise you've just turned your logic off in what you say to yourself) Eivind, who comes from the country in the world with the second highest count of guns per person and with 1 killing per 100,000 citizens per year. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 09:44:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00945 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:44:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.auracom.net (root@mail1.auracom.net [165.154.140.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00938 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arthur@col.auracom.com) Received: from outpost.col.auracom.com (ts2-27.tru.auracom.com [165.154.114.91]) by mail1.auracom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA26664; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:44:42 -0300 (ADT) From: arthur Reply-To: arthur To: Malartre cc: Frank Pawlak , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <359493AD.8A8281ED@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Malartre wrote: > Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > > I have a serious question for you. I am not sure that I have all spelling and > > names straight. So if some of the names and nationalities that I ask about are > > not correct, please excuse my ignorance. You appear to be a French Canadian. I > > am interested in someone called Evangeline that is in some way connected to the > > Arcadian French that settled in Canada. > > k > "Acadian" are not the same thing than French people in quebec. They are > in majority in New Brunswick, Ile du Prince Edouard and Nova Scotia. > Evangeline was a heroes because she was separated of her husband Gabriel > for the massive acadian deportation/assimilation to France, english > colonies(even australia) and USA. There is a town somewhere in Acadie > where there is a church and a big Statue of Evangeline. Well, there is a > lot of explanation on the horror of the deportation, how the english > where so much evils ;-) The history of Evangeline is now used in songs > and theatre. It's a myth. > Nova Scotia's Annopolas Valley region have the Chruch, monument, and actually a beach named after Evangeline, quite the tourist attraction actually. But trying to compare Acadiens to the French Canadians that live in Quebec would be like comparing French Canadians to the French people of France, they both are "French" but over the years they all have changed enough to be seen as very distictive peoples with changing cultures and in some cases actual changes in the French language. Actually for those that might not know of this, here in Canada we have both French and English as "National" languages. This could also lead to a very volitile subject that isn't appropriate here, also it is a subject that is on the verge of tearing the country apart, something I feel should never happen. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - arthur@col.auracom.com In a world without fences, is there a need for gates --end-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 09:45:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01017 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.auracom.net (root@mail1.auracom.net [165.154.140.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00977 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arthur@col.auracom.com) Received: from outpost.col.auracom.com (ts2-27.tru.auracom.com [165.154.114.91]) by mail1.auracom.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA26627; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:44:24 -0300 (ADT) From: arthur Reply-To: arthur To: Frank Pawlak cc: John Birrell , Greg Lehey , malartre@aei.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <980627053718.ZM23338@darkstar.connect.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Frank Pawlak wrote: > On Jun 27, 3:32pm, John Birrell wrote: > > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness > > > there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by > > > a Tasmanian devil. > > > > But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. A few > > months ago I was late getting home and I came across another bike rider > > lying on his side on the road having spoilt the nice paint job on his > > bike. He didn't hit the kangaroo. It jumped on _him_. What else can > > you expect just outside a town called Kangaroo Ground? > > > > Definitely safer to stay inside at night here. > > We have problems in the US, at least in the upper Midwest, with deer on the > highways getting hit by automobiles and trucks. But have never heard of one > hitting someone on a bike. So we must be relatively safe here in the Great > Lakes region of the US. :-) > > Frank > At first glance I thought the biker attacking kangaroo story might have been a joke, but the more I thought about it the more it made sense. Here in Nova Scotia, Canada we have the same problem with deer walking out into traffic from time to time, and when that does happen most insurance comapnies will only pay the claim if you can prove that the deer ran into you, not the other way around. But we do have stories of Moose that will actually chase down a vehicle to ram it. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - arthur@col.auracom.com In a world without fences, is there a need for gates --end-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 10:02:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02666 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:02:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason01.u.washington.edu (root@jason01.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02661 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul7.u.washington.edu (root@saul7.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.2]) by jason01.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id KAA37250; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:02:23 -0700 Received: from s8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul7.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP id KAA13600; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:51:59 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu To: Eivind Eklund cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <19980627182937.40983@follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: >where it is considered OK to murder people. (If you, the reader, say >to yourself that you don't consider it OK, then you'd better be >actively opposing the use of death penalty - otherwise you've just >turned your logic off in what you say to yourself) This statement presumes that execution is murder. Execution is a lawful punishment in the United States. Not everything that causes death is murder. Not even everything that causes a wrongful death is murder. In the United States we divvy out justice based on "mens rea" or criminal intent. A cold blooded killer is guilty of a capital offense whereas a negligent causer of death is guilty of a less than capital offensel. The people of the United States reserve the lawful right to punish the capital offender by death. Until the people change this law, execution will not be murder. It is never OK to murder people. No one in the US will say it is. Of course, as you can see by my discussion, which act consitutes a murder is subject to debate. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ | 206-633-5994 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 10:21:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05605 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:21:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (www.degnet.baynet.de [194.95.214.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA05599 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:21:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malte@webmore.com) Received: from neuron.webmore.com (unverified [194.95.214.178]) by cyclone.degnet.baynet.de (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:23:33 +0200 Received: (from malte@webmore.com) by neuron.webmore.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00551; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:19:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:19:40 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: malte@webmore.com From: Malte Lance To: "Jason C. Wells" Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Eivind Eklund Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Jun-98 Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > >>where it is considered OK to murder people. (If you, the reader, say >>to yourself that you don't consider it OK, then you'd better be >>actively opposing the use of death penalty - otherwise you've just >>turned your logic off in what you say to yourself) > > This statement presumes that execution is murder. Execution is a lawful > punishment in the United States. > > Not everything that causes death is murder. Not even everything that > causes a wrongful death is murder. In the United States we divvy out > justice based on "mens rea" or criminal intent. A cold blooded killer is > guilty of a capital offense whereas a negligent causer of death is guilty > of a less than capital offensel. In the end in both cases the effect is human life being ended by some action of human beings. I don't think anyone has the right to forcibly end human life except its own. Doing so makes them act on the same low level. And at least it does not help much. Malte. > > The people of the United States reserve the lawful right to punish the > capital offender by death. Until the people change this law, execution > will not be murder. > > It is never OK to murder people. No one in the US will say it is. Of > course, as you can see by my discussion, which act consitutes a murder is > subject to debate. > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > | 206-633-5994 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Malte Lance Date: 27-Jun-98 Time: 19:11:43 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 10:45:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07003 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:45:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06996 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:45:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-2-141.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.136.79]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id MAA16324; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:45:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA27819; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:46:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627174601.ZM27818@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:46:01 +0000 In-Reply-To: drifter@stratos.net "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 3:46am) References: <199806270633.QAA16831@cimlogic.com.au> <980627063311.ZM23522@darkstar.connect.com> <19980627034631.A944@stratos.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: drifter@stratos.net, Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 3:46am, drifter@stratos.net wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:33:11AM +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > On Jun 27, 4:33pm, John Birrell wrote: > > > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > > > Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > > I am under the impression that parts of Australia are much like the Old > > > > American West, with cowboys that carry guns, drink a lot and then get into > > > > gunfights. ;-) > > > > > > Nope. Carrying a gun here is very rare. Our government has just spent > > > hundreds of millions of dollars buying back people's guns that are now > > > illegal. > > > > > > This week we had a court ruling that reinforces the state law that you > > > have to have a shooter's licence to play with paint-ball guns on private > > > ranges. Next it'll be water pistols too. > > > > > > > Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are entirely too many > > guns walking around. Some of these kids with guns are better armed than I was > ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ > > Interesting choice of words, possibly indicative of perspective? > Personification of guns, or "guns walking around", is probably > a phrase uttered by a gun-control advocate, whereas "criminals walking > around with guns" is maybe more likely to be spoken of by an NRA advocate. > Now, "kids walking around with guns," that's a toss-up! > > -Rob "Not to put words in to anybody's mouth :)" It is interesting that you did an in-depth analysis of my analogy. I was taking neither of the positions arrived at in your deduction. The is no question about the issue of personification of guns in the US. The citizens have been armed to the teeth since the Revolutionary War. Gun possession is covered by the Constitution. So far all well and good. Guns walking around probably refers to the guns per capita ratio in the US, which has increased rapidly in the last twenty years or so, and to the types of weapons that are being carried. By your response, I suspect that you are coming from one side or another of those positions that you put into my mouth. Frank > > > -- > drifter@stratos.nospam.net (remove nospam to send) > "Ever notice that in every commercial about the Internet, advertising > geniuses can't resist having a bunch of kids staring into a monitor, awe- > struck, looking at a whale jumping out of the ocean? Or is it just me?" >-- End of excerpt from drifter@stratos.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 11:18:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10482 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:18:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10471 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:18:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-2-141.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.136.79]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id NAA13311; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:17:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id NAA27851; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:18:13 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627181808.ZM27850@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:18:08 +0000 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 2:57am) References: <19980627034631.A944@stratos.net> <199806270857.CAA17321@softweyr.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Wes Peters , drifter@stratos.net Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 2:57am, Wes Peters wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > My hidden microphone recorded (drifter@stratos.net) saying: > > % > Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are entirely too > % many > % > guns walking around. Some of these kids with guns are better armed than I > % was > % ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ > % > % Interesting choice of words, possibly indicative of perspective? > % Personification of guns, or "guns walking around", is probably > % a phrase uttered by a gun-control advocate, whereas "criminals walking > % around with guns" is maybe more likely to be spoken of by an NRA advocate. > > No, it's well known that guns walk around by themselves here in > the USA. Sometimes they have people attached to them, but the > people are not responsible for any crimes committed, because the > problem is the guns. The people attached to the guns are just > another class of victim. > > Right, Frank? Wes, that's a baited question. I was speaking analogously, and not taking any position as to responsibility or victim. So please don't put words in my mouth. ;-) > > % Now, "kids walking around with guns," that's a toss-up! > > That would depend on the kids, and where they are walking. Personally, > I wouldn't send anyone out walking in Wind River Mountains without a > rifle. The US Park Service take all the bears that become a problem > to people in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks and dump them > into the north end of the Wind Rivers, which is otherwise backpackers > mecca. As much as I support the right of the bears to their territory, > their right ends as soon as they try to kill me. I'll take ME every > time. > > Your mileage may vary. If you relish the idea of being eaten by the > local fauna, let me know. I know where a cougar lives who is big enough > to jump a 200-lb deer carcass onto a rock ledge 7 feet off the ground. > I'm certain he'd enjoy eating a gun control advocate or two. ;^) Again, not taking any particular position on gun control, but relating my experience with wild animals as a once avid hunter, I can say that having spent many hours alone in the forested areas of northern Wisconsin, I never had a problem being attacked by anaimals. Granted the species native here differ from those of the West. People here had a fear of the wolf and created an extinct species of animal which has resulted in big and growing problems with the deer herd. They have been re-introduced here, and I hunted in areas where wolves were present and never had a problem. It has been my experience that in general wild animals fear man. That situation can and does change if the animal is injured or starving. Man, supposedly, having the higher intellect should be able ot get along with animals and survive together just fine. Yes there are risks when a human enters the natural habitat of an animal, but knowing what you are doing they can be minimized without necessarily killing the animal first. BTW, I do have experience with wildlife in other parts of the US and in other countries. The above pretty much holds true. Frank > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > >-- End of excerpt from Wes Peters To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 11:36:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12073 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:36:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12068 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:36:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-2-141.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.136.79]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id NAA14205; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:36:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id NAA27872; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:36:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627183640.ZM27871@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:36:40 +0000 In-Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 9:51am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: "Jason C. Wells" , Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 9:51am, Jason C. Wells wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > >where it is considered OK to murder people. (If you, the reader, say > >to yourself that you don't consider it OK, then you'd better be > >actively opposing the use of death penalty - otherwise you've just > >turned your logic off in what you say to yourself) > > This statement presumes that execution is murder. Execution is a lawful > punishment in the United States. > > Not everything that causes death is murder. Not even everything that > causes a wrongful death is murder. In the United States we divvy out > justice based on "mens rea" or criminal intent. A cold blooded killer is > guilty of a capital offense whereas a negligent causer of death is guilty > of a less than capital offensel. > > The people of the United States reserve the lawful right to punish the > capital offender by death. Until the people change this law, execution > will not be murder. > > It is never OK to murder people. No one in the US will say it is. Of > course, as you can see by my discussion, which act consitutes a murder is > subject to debate. > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > | 206-633-5994 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Jason C. Wells Your right Jason, it is all in the deffinitions isn't it. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 12:22:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16762 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:22:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from netcom8.netcom.com (root@netcom8.netcom.com [192.100.81.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16757 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from das@netcom.com) Received: (from das@localhost) by netcom8.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id MAA24455; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:05:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Das Devaraj Reply-To: Das Devaraj Subject: Re: Does it's true? (a futile answer) To: Malartre cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA16758 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Malartre wrote: > Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do > not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who > think than you are all paranoïd ;-) Just between you and me (ssshh!), it could very well be true. This is classified information - curious as to how you unearthed it? What you mention is just tip of the iceberg. Strangely, many folks who live in *apartments* also do the same, not just folks whole live in houses. Will let you in on a related secret - People who are sloppy sometimes cause havoc with the master plan by being out till 21:02(9:02PM). It is far more sinister than what you suspect. Some people don't leave after 9pm, others after 8pm and some folks even after 6pm! The sinister part is that this *seemingly* random schedule is super secret and enforced through possibly (gasp) mind-control. People think they have freedom, but we know better don't we? Today evening, I am meeting some friends at a restaurant in San Francisco. Guess what is going to happen? Some of the people who have promised to be there will *mysteriously* fail to show up! All of the folks who fail to show up, will have some lame excuse. Coincidence, you say? I think not. Ghostly Uncouth Intrusions (GUI) are everywhere. Clever Laudable Interactions (CLI) are a thing of the past. Think for a second here. These are Bizarre Strange Developments (BSD). The good news is that some folks, Fearlessly Research Every Exhilarating BSD (FREE BSD) which come their way. Don't take this lightly. As the saying goes, "You can never be paranoid enough!" das To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 12:42:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18719 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nexus.astro.psu.edu (nexus.astro.psu.edu [128.118.147.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA18714 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:42:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@astro.psu.edu) Received: from mstar.astro.psu.edu by nexus.astro.psu.edu (4.1/Nexus-1.3) id AA26560; Sat, 27 Jun 98 15:42:08 EDT Received: by mstar.astro.psu.edu (SMI-8.6/Client-1.3) id PAA13332; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:42:04 -0400 Message-Id: <19980627154204.A13302@mstar.astro.psu.edu> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:42:04 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Arne Woerner Subject: [arne.woerner@tu-clausthal.de: Re: your mail] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hm, it seems that this irritant believes he can stop me from sending mail by asking my *forwarding service* to prevent it. I suppose I should have used "mph@freebsd.org" instead. (For the record, the mail he quotes is the only mail I've written to him. Contrast the several he's sent to -questions.) ----- Forwarded message from Arne Woerner ----- From: Arne Woerner Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:29:18 +0200 (MET DST) To: postmaster@pobox.com Cc: arne.woerner@tu-clausthal.de, mph@pobox.com Subject: Re: your mail no mails from this user, please. -woerner >From mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org Sat Jun 27 19:24:34 1998 >Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:14:33 -0400 >From: Matthew Hunt >To: Arne Woerner >Subject: Re: your mail >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 01:50:10PM +0200, Arne Woerner wrote: > >> i thought questions@freebsd.org is an email address where complaints about >> http://www.de.freebsd.org/cgallery.html >> can be sent to. > >You thought wrong. > >> all links i annouced can be found on the freebsd pages! > >Sure. Who, besides you, gives a damn? > >> i have annouced these links because some subscribers asked me to do this! > >Sounds like your problem, not ours. > >> on bill gates' page no one will ever find those references. > >So? > >> and bill gates' support engineers would not tell lies about people who >> try to help! > >So? I haven't seen anyone lie to you. Just get pissed off at you >for bothering us about something WE DO NOT BLOODY CARE ABOUT. If >you or your subscribers are offended, then don't follow those links! > >> your web pages are very uncool! > >Actually, I quite like them. I have little respect for your personal >taste. > >> i do not want any emails from you. thank you! > >Then stop bothering hundreds or thousands of us with your idiotic, >prudish, poorly-written, and poorly-formatted whining. > >-- >Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. >http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 12:49:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19363 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19358 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:49:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (skaro-2-8.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.138.136]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.0) id OAA29918; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:49:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id OAA28051; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:49:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627194921.ZM28048@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:49:20 +0000 In-Reply-To: Das Devaraj "Re: Does it's true? (a futile answer)" (Jun 27, 12:05pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Das Devaraj , Malartre Subject: Re: Does it's true? (a futile answer) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id MAA19359 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 12:05pm, Das Devaraj wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? (a futile answer) > On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Malartre wrote: > > > Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do > > not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who > > think than you are all paranoïd ;-) > > Just between you and me (ssshh!), it could very well be true. This > is classified information - curious as to how you unearthed it? > What you mention is just tip of the iceberg. Strangely, many folks > who live in *apartments* also do the same, not just folks whole > live in houses. Will let you in on a related secret - People who > are sloppy sometimes cause havoc with the master plan by being out > till 21:02(9:02PM). > > It is far more sinister than what you suspect. Some people don't > leave after 9pm, others after 8pm and some folks even after 6pm! > The sinister part is that this *seemingly* random schedule is super > secret and enforced through possibly (gasp) mind-control. People > think they have freedom, but we know better don't we? > > Today evening, I am meeting some friends at a restaurant in > San Francisco. Guess what is going to happen? Some of the > people who have promised to be there will *mysteriously* fail to > show up! All of the folks who fail to show up, will have some > lame excuse. Coincidence, you say? I think not. > > Ghostly Uncouth Intrusions (GUI) are everywhere. Clever Laudable > Interactions (CLI) are a thing of the past. Think for a second here. > These are Bizarre Strange Developments (BSD). The good news is that > some folks, Fearlessly Research Every Exhilarating BSD (FREE BSD) > which come their way. > > Don't take this lightly. As the saying goes, "You can never be > paranoid enough!" > > das > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Das Devaraj Me thinks that you should submit this to Chris Carter, the producer of The X Files. A pretty good yarn as far as yarns go. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 13:06:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20994 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic11.pm01.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20981 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:06:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA26753; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980627130610.B26300@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:06:10 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: arthur , Frank Pawlak Cc: John Birrell , Greg Lehey , malartre@aei.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <980627053718.ZM23338@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from arthur on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 01:44:24PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 01:44:24PM -0300, arthur wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > On Jun 27, 3:32pm, John Birrell wrote: > > > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness > > > > there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by > > > > a Tasmanian devil. > > > > > > But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. A few > > > months ago I was late getting home and I came across another bike rider > > > lying on his side on the road having spoilt the nice paint job on his > > > bike. He didn't hit the kangaroo. It jumped on _him_. What else can > > > you expect just outside a town called Kangaroo Ground? > > > > > > Definitely safer to stay inside at night here. > > > > We have problems in the US, at least in the upper Midwest, with deer on the > > highways getting hit by automobiles and trucks. But have never heard > > of one hitting someone on a bike. So we must be relatively safe here > > in the Great Lakes region of the US. :-) > > > > Frank > > > At first glance I thought the biker attacking kangaroo story might have > been a joke, but the more I thought about it the more it made sense. Here > in Nova Scotia, Canada we have the same problem with deer walking out into > traffic from time to time, and when that does happen most insurance > comapnies will only pay the claim if you can prove that the deer ran into > you, not the other way around. But we do have stories of Moose that will > actually chase down a vehicle to ram it. > When I lived in northern Minnesota, around Ely and Duluth, I drove a truck that had the very large dent in the side where a full grown male moose had rammed it. This moose took offense to me being in his territory and chased me. The only think that save me from being trampled was my truck. A moose is not an animal to be trifled with, especially so during the rut. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 14:04:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29375 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29331 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (harconia-1-163.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.133.165]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id QAA22935; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:03:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA28182; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:04:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627210408.ZM28181@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:04:08 +0000 In-Reply-To: Josef Grosch "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 1:06pm) References: <980627053718.ZM23338@darkstar.connect.com> <19980627130610.B26300@mooseriver.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: arthur , jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: Greg Lehey , John Birrell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, malartre@aei.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 1:06pm, Josef Grosch wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 01:44:24PM -0300, arthur wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > > > On Jun 27, 3:32pm, John Birrell wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > > > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > > In fact, you're thinking of Australia. Out here in the wilderness > > > > > there's no street lighting, and in the darkness you could get eaten by > > > > > a Tasmanian devil. > > > > > > > > But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. A few > > > > months ago I was late getting home and I came across another bike rider > > > > lying on his side on the road having spoilt the nice paint job on his > > > > bike. He didn't hit the kangaroo. It jumped on _him_. What else can > > > > you expect just outside a town called Kangaroo Ground? > > > > > > > > Definitely safer to stay inside at night here. > > > > > > We have problems in the US, at least in the upper Midwest, with deer on the > > > highways getting hit by automobiles and trucks. But have never heard > > > of one hitting someone on a bike. So we must be relatively safe here > > > in the Great Lakes region of the US. :-) > > > > > > Frank > > > > > At first glance I thought the biker attacking kangaroo story might have > > been a joke, but the more I thought about it the more it made sense. Here > > in Nova Scotia, Canada we have the same problem with deer walking out into > > traffic from time to time, and when that does happen most insurance > > comapnies will only pay the claim if you can prove that the deer ran into > > you, not the other way around. But we do have stories of Moose that will > > actually chase down a vehicle to ram it. > > > > When I lived in northern Minnesota, around Ely and Duluth, I drove a truck > that had the very large dent in the side where a full grown male moose had > rammed it. This moose took offense to me being in his territory and chased > me. The only think that save me from being trampled was my truck. A moose > is not an animal to be trifled with, especially so during the rut. > > > Josef > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses >-- End of excerpt from Josef Grosch Hi good to here from you. I used to live in the Twin Cities for a few years, and liked Minnesota a lot. Do you still live in Minnesota? I have left and am now in Wisconsin. Your's it not the first that I've heard of this happining. Your response is understandable, as it is my experience that when you enter an animals natural habitat you are putting yourself at some risk. The animal is only doing what the animal does, that is to protect its' territory, young etc. Even the deer, a relatively small animal during the rut can pose a danger. And that leads me to my point. Knowing what the animal is all about before entering its' environment enables you to minimize the risk of harm and allow the animal to live right along side of you. Regards, Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 14:05:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29701 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29680 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-209.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.209]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA01299; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:05:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19495; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:04:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806272104.QAA19495@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Malartre cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-reply-to: Message from Malartre of "Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:36:21 EDT." <359468B5.8251206C@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:04:45 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA29690 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Malartre writes: > Just want to know if it's true than in many town in the US, people do > not go out of there house after 21:00(9:00PM)? Maybe it's just me who > think than you are all paranoïd ;-) Yes, its true there are many towns in the US where very few people leave their homes after 9PM. Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Has more to do with the fact there isn't anything in town to do after the sun sets. Has a lot to do with sunrise at 5AM too. There is more traffic on rural Tennessee roads between 5AM and 7AM than from 7AM to noon, at least on Saturday morning. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 14:08:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00358 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:08:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00339 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20565; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:08:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:08:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806272108.PAA20565@softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Does it's true? From: Wes Peters To: eivind@yes.no, jcwells@u.washington.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 (TrialWare) X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA00344 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My hidden microphone recorded Jason C. Wells (jcwells@u.washington.edu) saying: % On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: % % >where it is considered OK to murder people. (If you, the reader, say % >to yourself that you don't consider it OK, then you'd better be % >actively opposing the use of death penalty - otherwise you've just % >turned your logic off in what you say to yourself) % % Not everything that causes death is murder. Not even everything that % causes a wrongful death is murder. In the United States we divvy out % justice based on "mens rea" or criminal intent. A cold blooded killer is % guilty of a capital offense whereas a negligent causer of death is guilty % of a less than capital offensel. % % The people of the United States reserve the lawful right to punish the % capital offender by death. Until the people change this law, execution % will not be murder. We also reserve the right to kill anyone who attempts to bring down the lawful government of the United States, either from within or from outside threat. This is not considered "murder" here, nor in any other country I know of -- yours included, Eivind. So, is it always wrong to kill human beings, or are you dabbling in situational ethics as well? % It is never OK to murder people. No one in the US will say it is. Of % course, as you can see by my discussion, which act consitutes a murder is % subject to debate. Correct. As you point out, the statement "it is never OK to murder people" does not imply "it is never OK to kill people." Murdering people is a proper subset of killing people, but the two are not the SAME set. I absolutely bristle every time someone comes up with the example of that asshole on the Long Island commuter train to killed 14 people with a revolver, reloading twice in the process. If just ONE law-abiding citizen on that train had been armed and trained to use his or her weapon effectively, he wouldn't have gotten more than one or two. And those who laid there while he reloaded TWICE... -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 14:10:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00726 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:10:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00672 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:10:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20578; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:10:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806272110.PAA20578@softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Does it's true? From: Wes Peters To: malte@webmore.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 (TrialWare) X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA00711 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My hidden microphone recorded Malte Lance (malte@webmore.com) saying: % In the end in both cases the effect is human life being ended by some % action of human beings. I don't think anyone has the right to forcibly end % human life except its own. Doing so makes them act on the same low level. % And at least it does not help much. I'm sure Saddam Hussein will note your sentiments. Expect an invasion this afternoon. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 14:16:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01432 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01427 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20589; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:16:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806272116.PAA20589@softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Does it's true? From: Wes Peters To: drifter@stratos.net, fpawlak@execpc.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: <980627174601.ZM27818@darkstar.connect.com> References: <980627174601.ZM27818@darkstar.connect.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 (TrialWare) X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA01428 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My hidden microphone recorded Frank Pawlak (fpawlak@execpc.com) saying: % Guns walking around probably refers to the guns per capita ratio in the US, % which has increased rapidly in the last twenty years or so, and to the types % of % weapons that are being carried. Ah, yet another myth of the liberal press - gun ownership in the USA is at an all-time high. My fater, his brothers, and ALL of their friends took their guns to school EVERY day. They were, each and every one of them, expected to bring dinner home with them upon returning from school. This meant carrying a rifle, a fishing pole, or both, since thats how they got food. If you mean gun ownership in the cities is going up, that's only because living it cities is going up; the USA is significantly less rural that it used to be. And gun ownership here where I live has gone down in the last 20 years, from about 95% of households in the 70s to about 75% of households in the 90s. Much of the blame for this sad state of affairs is the increasing urabanization of northern Utah, and the attendant crime and drop in moral standards. Guns are not the cause of crime, indecency is. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 14:28:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03144 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03088 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:28:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20604; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:27:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806272127.PAA20604@softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Does it's true? From: Wes Peters To: fpawlak@execpc.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: <980627181808.ZM27850@darkstar.connect.com> References: <980627181808.ZM27850@darkstar.connect.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 (TrialWare) X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA03138 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My hidden microphone recorded Frank Pawlak (fpawlak@execpc.com) saying: % Again, not taking any particular position on gun control, but relating my % experience with wild animals as a once avid hunter, I can say that having % spent % many hours alone in the forested areas of northern Wisconsin, I never had a % problem being attacked by anaimals. Granted the species native here differ % from those of the West. People here had a fear of the wolf and created an % extinct species of animal which has resulted in big and growing problems with % the deer herd. They have been re-introduced here, and I hunted in areas % where % wolves were present and never had a problem. % % It has been my experience that in general wild animals fear man. That % situation can and does change if the animal is injured or starving. Man, % supposedly, having the higher intellect should be able ot get along with % animals and survive together just fine. Yes there are risks when a human % enters the natural habitat of an animal, but knowing what you are doing they % can be minimized without necessarily killing the animal first. % % BTW, I do have experience with wildlife in other parts of the US and in other % countries. The above pretty much holds true. No argument there. I consider myself extremely lucky to have spotted a cougar in the wild; most will never see one. There are only reports of cougars attacking people about once every other year in the western US, and then it is usually a small child who hasn't been taught how to deal with a cougar. Here in the Salt Lake Valley, we actually get to see them fairly frequently. A young male, about 70 pounds, was captured wandering around the runways at Salt Lake International Airport last year. Early this year, a large male wandered into a tennis court and got stuck; animal control had to dart him to get him out because he was terrified of them. There are a few exceptions to the rule of wild animals staying away from humans, and they are all generally disastrous to the human involved. These include grizzlies who've been fed by people and no longer fear them, any polar bear, wolverines (ever meet one of THOSE in Minnesota?), (apparently) javelinas (I've never met one), and the worst of all, feral cats. There is a large population of feral cats in many of the small arroyos surrounding creeks in northern Utah, and people are badly bitten and scratched by them quite often. We've also had 3 or 4 incidents of black/brown/cinnamon bear attacks in the Wasatch mountains this decade - probably caused by people feeding the bears and removing their natural fear of humans. Even given all this, I still choose to travel armed when in back country where I know there are dangerous animals. I thrill at seeing a cougar in the wild again, and completely acknowlege his right to be there, right up to the point where he tries to eat my two year old daughter, who DOES know that you never run away from a wild kitty. And I would do the same thing taking here into places with other dangerous animals, like any city east of Denver. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 15:08:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09364 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:08:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09349 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-2-91.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.219]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id RAA25849; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:08:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA28302; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:08:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627220849.ZM28301@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:08:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 3:10pm) References: <199806272110.PAA20578@softweyr.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Wes Peters , malte@webmore.com Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 3:10pm, Wes Peters wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > My hidden microphone recorded Malte Lance (malte@webmore.com) saying: > > % In the end in both cases the effect is human life being ended by some > % action of human beings. I don't think anyone has the right to forcibly end > % human life except its own. Doing so makes them act on the same low level. > % And at least it does not help much. > > I'm sure Saddam Hussein will note your sentiments. Expect an invasion this > afternoon. > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Wes Peters Huh!! What am I missing in your response. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 15:35:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12810 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:35:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12802 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:35:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-2-91.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.219]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id RAA26671; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:35:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA28325; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:35:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627223509.ZM28324@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:35:09 +0000 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 3:16pm) References: <980627174601.ZM27818@darkstar.connect.com> <199806272116.PAA20589@softweyr.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Wes Peters , drifter@stratos.net, fpawlak@execpc.com Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 3:16pm, Wes Peters wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > My hidden microphone recorded Frank Pawlak (fpawlak@execpc.com) saying: > % Guns walking around probably refers to the guns per capita ratio in the US, > % which has increased rapidly in the last twenty years or so, and to the types > % of > % weapons that are being carried. > > Ah, yet another myth of the liberal press - gun ownership in the USA is at an > all-time high. My fater, his brothers, and ALL of their friends took their > guns to school EVERY day. They were, each and every one of them, expected to > bring dinner home with them upon returning from school. This meant carrying a > rifle, a fishing pole, or both, since thats how they got food. The first part of your argument is just plain false. Both gun ownership and the kinds of weapons owned are at an all time high. Food gathering on the way home from school may well hold in its time in some areas of the country. Part of my youth involved growing up in a rural area and no such behavior occured. Besides, back in the old days, people had more respect for the next guy and his rights. Two issues are raised here. First, with rare exception in the US today is it necessary to forage for food and use that as justification for carring a gun all the time. Secondly, the types of weapons being carried are designed and being used for mass distruction. No hunter worth his salt needs am AK47, AR-15. M16. MAC 10 or UZI to harvest game. These weapons are very prevelent all accross the US today. The second part of my youth was spent growing up in so called tough working class neighborhood in a major city. Yes there were some gangs, and fist fights, but, it was the very rare instance when one of the combatants pulled a knife much less a gun. I don't know where the hell you live that you are not aware of the fact that a person in the US can get their shit blow'n away merely by pissing off another person on a highway. > > If you mean gun ownership in the cities is going up, that's only because living > it cities is going up; the USA is significantly less rural that it used to be. > And gun ownership here where I live has gone down in the last 20 years, from > about 95% of households in the 70s to about 75% of households in the 90s. Wes, you are wrong here also. Just a few days ago you lamented the urban sprawl situation in the US. It is a fact that most major cities are loosing population to the burbs. So more guns in cities because of population growth doesn't wash. Much > of the blame for this sad state of affairs is the increasing urabanization of > northern Utah, and the attendant crime and drop in moral standards. Finally, common ground. BTW, on a visit to Salt Lake a couple of years ago, I got talking to a local and remarked what a nice city it was and the amount of night life there. His told me that it is not as nice as it once was, and blamed the decline on the migration of Californians to Utah. ;-) Frank > > Guns are not the cause of crime, indecency is. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > >-- End of excerpt from Wes Peters To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 15:44:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13596 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:44:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13591 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:44:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-2-91.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.219]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id RAA01976; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:44:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA28332; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:44:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627224429.ZM28331@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:44:29 +0000 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 3:27pm) References: <980627181808.ZM27850@darkstar.connect.com> <199806272127.PAA20604@softweyr.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Wes Peters Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 3:27pm, Wes Peters wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > My hidden microphone recorded Frank Pawlak (fpawlak@execpc.com) saying: > > % Again, not taking any particular position on gun control, but relating my > % experience with wild animals as a once avid hunter, I can say that having % > spent > % many hours alone in the forested areas of northern Wisconsin, I never had a > % problem being attacked by anaimals. Granted the species native here differ > % from those of the West. People here had a fear of the wolf and created an > % extinct species of animal which has resulted in big and growing problems with > % the deer herd. They have been re-introduced here, and I hunted in areas % > where > % wolves were present and never had a problem. > % > % It has been my experience that in general wild animals fear man. That > % situation can and does change if the animal is injured or starving. Man, > % supposedly, having the higher intellect should be able ot get along with > % animals and survive together just fine. Yes there are risks when a human > % enters the natural habitat of an animal, but knowing what you are doing they > % can be minimized without necessarily killing the animal first. > % > % BTW, I do have experience with wildlife in other parts of the US and in other > % countries. The above pretty much holds true. > > No argument there. I consider myself extremely lucky to have spotted a cougar > in the wild; most will never see one. There are only reports of cougars > attacking people about once every other year in the western US, and then it is > usually a small child who hasn't been taught how to deal with a cougar. > > Here in the Salt Lake Valley, we actually get to see them fairly frequently. A > young male, about 70 pounds, was captured wandering around the runways at Salt > Lake International Airport last year. Early this year, a large male wandered > into a tennis court and got stuck; animal control had to dart him to get him > out because he was terrified of them. > > There are a few exceptions to the rule of wild animals staying away from > humans, and they are all generally disastrous to the human involved. These > include grizzlies who've been fed by people and no longer fear them, any polar > bear, wolverines (ever meet one of THOSE in Minnesota?), (apparently) javelinas > (I've never met one), and the worst of all, feral cats. There is a large > population of feral cats in many of the small arroyos surrounding creeks in > northern Utah, and people are badly bitten and scratched by them quite often. > We've also had 3 or 4 incidents of black/brown/cinnamon bear attacks in the > Wasatch mountains this decade - probably caused by people feeding the bears and > removing their natural fear of humans. > > Even given all this, I still choose to travel armed when in back country where > I know there are dangerous animals. I thrill at seeing a cougar in the wild > again, and completely acknowlege his right to be there, right up to the point > where he tries to eat my two year old daughter, who DOES know that you never > run away from a wild kitty. And I would do the same thing taking here into > places with other dangerous animals, like any city east of Denver. Wes, I appreciate your view of man living in harmony with the surrounding wildlife. It is also refreshing to be in agreement with you on something. ;-) Then you go and make a statement about any city east of Denver. You are just spoiling for a fight. I fear that LA can hold its' own against either Chicago, New York or even Detroit when it comes to dangerous animals. Cheers, Frank > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > >-- End of excerpt from Wes Peters To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 15:53:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14396 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14391 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (narn-2-91.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.134.219]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.0) id RAA02250; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:53:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA28343; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:54:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980627225359.ZM28342@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:53:59 +0000 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 27, 3:08pm) References: <199806272108.PAA20565@softweyr.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Wes Peters , eivind@yes.no, jcwells@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jun 27, 3:08pm, Wes Peters wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > My hidden microphone recorded Jason C. Wells (jcwells@u.washington.edu) saying: > > % On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Eivind Eklund wrote: > % > % >where it is considered OK to murder people. (If you, the reader, say > % >to yourself that you don't consider it OK, then you'd better be > % >actively opposing the use of death penalty - otherwise you've just > % >turned your logic off in what you say to yourself) > % > % Not everything that causes death is murder. Not even everything that > % causes a wrongful death is murder. In the United States we divvy out > % justice based on "mens rea" or criminal intent. A cold blooded killer is > % guilty of a capital offense whereas a negligent causer of death is guilty > % of a less than capital offensel. > % > % The people of the United States reserve the lawful right to punish the > % capital offender by death. Until the people change this law, execution > % will not be murder. > > We also reserve the right to kill anyone who attempts to bring down > the lawful government of the United States, either from within or > from outside threat. This is not considered "murder" here, nor in > any other country I know of -- yours included, Eivind. So, is it > always wrong to kill human beings, or are you dabbling in situational > ethics as well? > > % It is never OK to murder people. No one in the US will say it is. Of > % course, as you can see by my discussion, which act consitutes a murder is > % subject to debate. > > Correct. As you point out, the statement "it is never OK to murder people" > does not imply "it is never OK to kill people." Murdering people is a proper > subset of killing people, but the two are not the SAME set. > The first part of this I'll take up later when I have more time, and can read it through again. > I absolutely bristle every time someone comes up with the example of that > asshole on the Long Island commuter train to killed 14 people with a revolver, > reloading twice in the process. If just ONE law-abiding citizen on that train > had been armed and trained to use his or her weapon effectively, he wouldn't > have gotten more than one or two. And those who laid there while he reloaded > TWICE... So by implication your answer to this is let's all return to the days of yester year, turning the clock back to the late 19th century, and go back to life as it was in Dodge City and Tombstone. Make sense to me. Meet me at the corral at high noon and we'll settle this once for all. Frank > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Wes Peters To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 18:04:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28594 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:04:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA28574 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:04:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA29488; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 11:03:53 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980628110349.56353@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 11:03:49 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Frank Pawlak Cc: arthur , jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, Greg Lehey , John Birrell , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, malartre@aei.ca Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <980627053718.ZM23338@darkstar.connect.com> <19980627130610.B26300@mooseriver.com> <980627210408.ZM28181@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <980627210408.ZM28181@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 09:04:08PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 09:04:08PM +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > Knowing what the animal is all about before entering its' environment > enables you to minimize the risk of harm and allow the animal to live > right along side of you. This should be stated at the top of the FreeBSD web page. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 19:17:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08787 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:17:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08761 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@python.shoal.net.au) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA05795; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:17:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:17:03 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: Frank Pawlak cc: John Birrell , Greg Lehey , malartre@aei.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <980627053718.ZM23338@darkstar.connect.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > But that'd be after dusk, when the "wildlife" comes out to play. A few > > months ago I was late getting home and I came across another bike rider > > lying on his side on the road having spoilt the nice paint job on his > > bike. He didn't hit the kangaroo. It jumped on _him_. What else can > > you expect just outside a town called Kangaroo Ground? > > I had one try and do the same to me on my way back from Canberra one weekend. I saw it waiting by the side of the road at the top of a hill so I slowed down a little, as soon as I got close he jumped straight out in front of me and then bounded along the left hand side of the road. I moved over to the right hand lane so as not to be too close and rode beside him for a while, he was doing about 60 kilometres per hour. I'm told that headlights dazzle them and as soon as you are close enough so that the light is directed more in front of them than at them they make their move. Gave me a fright anyway :-) Andrew Perry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 19:44:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11629 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:44:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11614; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199806280244.TAA11614@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <980627063311.ZM23522@darkstar.connect.com> from Frank Pawlak at "Jun 27, 98 06:33:11 am" To: fpawlak@execpc.com (Frank Pawlak) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, fpawlak@execpc.com, grog@lemis.com, malartre@aei.ca, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Frank Pawlak wrote: > Gun buy back policies were tried here also. Hell they just sold the old ones > and used the money to by more powerful weapons. that's a problem with having states make their own gun laws. you can buy in virginia, run the guns to either DC or new york and make a killing in the market. jmb ps. ewwww...that too punny. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 19:49:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12288 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:49:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (root@bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12276 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:49:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (fern7.verinet.com [199.45.181.71]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id UAA29553; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:49:10 -0600 Received: (from allenc@localhost) by struct. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18545; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:49:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:49:04 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199806280249.UAA18545@struct.> To: fpawlak@execpc.com Subject: Re: Does it's true? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <980627183640.ZM27871@darkstar.connect.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > >where it is considered OK to murder people. (If you, the reader, say > > >to yourself that you don't consider it OK, then you'd better be > > >actively opposing the use of death penalty - otherwise you've just > > >turned your logic off in what you say to yourself) > > > > This statement presumes that execution is murder. Execution is a lawful > > punishment in the United States. > > > > Not everything that causes death is murder. Not even everything that > > causes a wrongful death is murder. In the United States we divvy out > > justice based on "mens rea" or criminal intent. A cold blooded killer is > > guilty of a capital offense whereas a negligent causer of death is guilty > > of a less than capital offensel. > > > > The people of the United States reserve the lawful right to punish the > > capital offender by death. Until the people change this law, execution > > will not be murder. > > > > It is never OK to murder people. No one in the US will say it is. Of > > course, as you can see by my discussion, which act consitutes a murder is > > subject to debate. > > > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > | 206-633-5994 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > >-- End of excerpt from Jason C. Wells > > Your right Jason, it is all in the deffinitions isn't it. > > Frank consitutes -> constitutes deffinitions -> definitions This is a private reply. Consider using ispell. Allen Campbell allenc@verinet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 20:01:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13601 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stratos.net (pm3-3-8.stratos.net [207.86.132.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13586 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drifter@stratos.net) From: drifter@stratos.net Received: (from drifter@localhost) by stratos.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id VAA00837; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980627211308.B392@stratos.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:13:08 -0400 To: Eivind Eklund , Wes Peters , fpawlak@execpc.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <19980627034631.A944@stratos.net> <199806270857.CAA17321@softweyr.com> <19980627182937.40983@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980627182937.40983@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:29:37PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:29:37PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 02:57:26AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > My hidden microphone recorded (drifter@stratos.net) saying: > >>> Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are > >>> entirely too many guns walking around. Some of these kids with > >>> ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ > >> > >> Interesting choice of words, possibly indicative of perspective? > >> Personification of guns, or "guns walking around", is probably > >> a phrase uttered by a gun-control advocate, whereas "criminals walking > >> around with guns" is maybe more likely to be spoken of by an NRA advocate. > > > > No, it's well known that guns walk around by themselves here in > > the USA. Sometimes they have people attached to them, but the > > people are not responsible for any crimes committed, because the > > problem is the guns. The people attached to the guns are just > > another class of victim. > > > > Right, Frank? > > No, "Wrong, Wes." > > There are clear problems with having a large amount of handguns. > Handguns are more effective weapons than knives, thus you get more > dead people when criminals use guns instead of knives. This happen This is one common-sense statement that I happen to agree with gun control advocates on. Guns certainly do make it /easier/ to kill people than knives do. (And bombs make it even easier than guns.) But sorry, Eivind, Wes is right about personal responsibility. While I agree with the necessity for common-sense regulation of firearms consistent with traditional understanding of the Second Amendment, (in the U.S., at least) the old NRA adage of "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is a truth many don't want to accept, even if they pay lip service to it. People kill because they are bad, not because of people like Charlton Heston talking about gun rights all of the time. I am not a member of the NRA, and don't even own a firearm. (The only time I ever shot off one was a time I went skeet shooting -- hit the first clay pigeon and then went 0 for 29!) But I am sick and tired of them being blamed for crimes committed by murderers who lack decency and respect for human life. I am not an expert on gun history, but I believe gun laws were more lax in the earlier part of the century (please correct me if I am wrong), yet violence was also not as rampant. Maybe because people these days care less and less about right and wrong? > when you allow people to get weapons that are intended for use on > humans easily, and is worsened by a culture (e.g, the US culture) > where it is considered OK to murder people. (If you, the reader, say > to yourself that you don't consider it OK, then you'd better be > actively opposing the use of death penalty - otherwise you've just > turned your logic off in what you say to yourself) It is only "murder" if you believe it is immoral to take the life of another human being if said human being cold-bloodedly murdered someone else. It /is/ a view-point held by many in this country, though not the majority. Remember, Eivind, this argument can be turned on its head if I ask you about your government's (Norway -- unless 'yes.no' really is a made-up domain name) and society's attidude towards abortion, which is apparently more permissive there (very few legal restrictions) than here in the United States... > > Eivind, who comes from the country in the world with the second > highest count of guns per person and with 1 killing per 100,000 > citizens per year. There. Now we've covered gun control, the death penalty, and abortion. Sweat shops anybody :) -- drifter@stratos.nospam.net (remove nospam to send) "Ever notice that in every commercial about the Internet, advertising geniuses can't resist having a bunch of kids staring into a monitor, awe- struck, looking at a whale jumping out of the ocean? Or is it just me?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 20:01:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13635 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:01:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stratos.net (pm3-3-8.stratos.net [207.86.132.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13602 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:01:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drifter@stratos.net) From: drifter@stratos.net Received: (from drifter@localhost) by stratos.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id UAA00769; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19980627202059.A392@stratos.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:20:59 -0400 To: Frank Pawlak Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? References: <199806270633.QAA16831@cimlogic.com.au> <980627063311.ZM23522@darkstar.connect.com> <19980627034631.A944@stratos.net> <980627174601.ZM27818@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <980627174601.ZM27818@darkstar.connect.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 05:46:01PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 05:46:01PM +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > On Jun 27, 3:46am, drifter@stratos.net wrote: > > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > > On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:33:11AM +0000, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are entirely too > many > > > guns walking around. Some of these kids with guns are better armed than I > was > > ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ > > > > Interesting choice of words, possibly indicative of perspective? > > Personification of guns, or "guns walking around", is probably > > a phrase uttered by a gun-control advocate, whereas "criminals walking > > around with guns" is maybe more likely to be spoken of by an NRA advocate. > > Now, "kids walking around with guns," that's a toss-up! > > > > -Rob "Not to put words in to anybody's mouth :)" > > It is interesting that you did an in-depth analysis of my analogy. I was > taking neither of the positions arrived at in your deduction. The is no > question about the issue of personification of guns in the US. The citizens > have been armed to the teeth since the Revolutionary War. Gun possession is > covered by the Constitution. So far all well and good. > > Guns walking around probably refers to the guns per capita ratio in the US, > which has increased rapidly in the last twenty years or so, and to the types of > weapons that are being carried. > > By your response, I suspect that you are coming from one side or another of > those positions that you put into my mouth. > > Frank Don't mean to be obscure about it. In fact, a few years ago I really didn't care about the gun-control issue, because it didn't affect me. I didn't and still don't own a firearm, I never hunted, and the only experience I ever had with a shotgun was a skeet-shooting trip I took a few years ago. My philosophical view tries to balance the legitimate need for protecting society and kids with the need to protect individual rights to defend oneself. If I were made dictator of America 200 years ago, I might have written a provision allowing gun ownership by individuals so long as potential owners received proper safety training and were certified by a fair and due process of law (a law whose only intent was to make sure qualified people owned guns and not a secret agenda to simply /limit/ the number of guns). The only other restriction might be for those convicted of violent crimes and (possibly) an age restriction. But I am not a dictator, I am a U.S. citizen, and I happen to believe in the rule of law. There are those who argue that the Second Amendment is simply out of date and not "down with the '90s." Our fore-fathers had muskets, and had no idea that one day there would be Uzis and AK-47's. That is a common argument for why changing times should result in changing laws. That is not necessarily an invalid opinion, but our fore-fathers also realized the importance of /lawful/ and /orderly/ change of the constitution. That is why there is an amendment process that requires 2/3 of both houses of Congress and three-quarters of the states. I realize that "A well-regulated militia, being necessary for the defense of a free-society, the right to bear arms shall not be prohibited" (that is not exactly verbatim, but close enough, if memory serves) is not the most clearly-written part of the constitution. It has led to all sorts of competing interpretations, from an unconditional right, to (surprisingly endorsed by conservative Judge Robert Bork) it only meaning the Feds couldn't ban a state's right to raise a militia. It stands to reason that many of these competing interpretations have a lot to do with philosophical belief rather than analysis of law. So, in cases like these, we ought to use precedent, which points to the idea that some restriction (no concealed weapons) is okay, so long as the general right to bear arms is not prohibited. If people see a need for a change, let them do it by proper means, not by simply ignoring the constitution. -Rob -- drifter@stratos.nospam.net (remove nospam to send) "Ever notice that in every commercial about the Internet, advertising geniuses can't resist having a bunch of kids staring into a monitor, awe- struck, looking at a whale jumping out of the ocean? Or is it just me?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 20:20:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15609 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:20:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15603 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tera.com) Received: from athena.tera.com (athena.tera.com [207.224.230.127]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05068; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:19:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Received: (from kline@localhost) by athena.tera.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA12882; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806280319.UAA12882@athena.tera.com> Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <19980627211308.B392@stratos.net> from "drifter@stratos.net" at "Jun 27, 98 09:13:08 pm" To: drifter@stratos.net Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: eivind@yes.no, wes@softweyr.com, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL23 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to drifter@stratos.net: > On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 06:29:37PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 02:57:26AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > > My hidden microphone recorded (drifter@stratos.net) saying: > > >>> Overall you are probably better for it. In the US there are > > >>> entirely too many guns walking around. Some of these kids with C'mon, guys, let's get _really_ real... We need to abolish handguns altogether, since, let's face it: the only thing a .454 Colt Bisley is meant to kill is a human target. --One, maybe two for the expert shooter. Rather than mess around, we need a new paradigm in the way of personal weaponry. I suggest something like the Personal Grenade. Something that would take adversaries out at, oh, say, 20 feet and leave oneself entirely safe. ...I can see the ads for the `PG' now. .... gary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 21:06:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19618 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:06:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19612 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00429 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:06:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806280406.VAA00429@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD T-Shirts? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:06:46 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just browse a little at www.freebsd.org and couldn't find a place to order a FreeBSD T-Shirt?? Tnks, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 21:16:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20571 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20565 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:16:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-234.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.234]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA03286 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:16:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20572 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:45:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806272245.RAA20572@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-reply-to: Message from "Frank Pawlak" of "Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:04:08 -0000." <980627210408.ZM28181@darkstar.connect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:45:57 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Frank Pawlak" writes: > > Even the deer, a relatively small animal during the rut can pose a > danger. And that leads me to my point. Knowing what the animal is > all about before entering its' environment enables you to minimize the > risk of harm and allow the animal to live right along side of you. Rutting has very little to do with deer and automobiles. "Headlights" are the cause of automobile/deer unintentional interfaces. Its common for a deer to freeze staring into the oncoming headlights. Often the deer is on the side of the road, freezes, doesn't panic until the automobile is very close. Then jumps in front of the automobile. Lets cure this problem once and for all, lets outlaw headlights. "the deer, a relatively small animal" Hah! You've never seen a typical Detroit-built American Land Barge totaled by one little deer? One little deer can easily destroy the bumper, headlights, grill, hood, fender and windshield. If the roof line gets bent too, the vehicle is usually totaled. There is probably not a single Wal-Mart or K-Mart in the continental US that doesn't sell "deer whistles" to be mounted on your front bumper. The theory is a deer will run from the right high pitched whistle as some vehicles were observed to be hit by deer very rarely, and guessed this was due to their sound. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 21:16:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20635 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20572 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-234.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.234]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA01442 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:16:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20531 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:29:51 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806272229.RAA20531@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-reply-to: Message from Josef Grosch of "Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:06:10 PDT." <19980627130610.B26300@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:29:50 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Josef Grosch writes: > When I lived in northern Minnesota, around Ely and Duluth, I drove a truck > that had the very large dent in the side where a full grown male moose had > rammed it. This moose took offense to me being in his territory and chased > me. The only think that save me from being trampled was my truck. A moose > is not an animal to be trifled with, especially so during the rut. Boy! Its a good thing that moose didn't have one of those guns some seem to think there are too many of. In the fit of rage that moose might have hurt somebody, if only he had a gun. I counter there are too many computers. They are too cheap. Any damn fool can buy one and find instructions on how to wreck havoc with it. Doesn't even require a license. All sarcasm aside, neither a gun, computer, high powered automobile, (I own a number of each), or alcohol are the causes of certain societal ills. Some people just have problems and happen to use high powered tools to exercise that problem. The tool doesn't cause the problem. If one tool is scarce, another will be found. Or invented. My biggest frustration is when I observe government, doctors, corporate management, educators, etc., treat the symptoms of a problem rather than search for the problem itself. Gun control only treats the symptoms, not the problem itself. I think firearms ought to be taught in school, along with sex education, and driver education. After school hours I fired more rounds with my Dad while in elementary school and high school than I've fired in the past 20 years. I grew up with a respect for firearms that my non-shooting schoolmates have demonstrated they lack. It wasn't terribly uncommon for one to swear at a car who had just cut them sort, "If I had a gun I'd blow him away!" Don't know of any schoolmates who have aquired a gun and "blown somebody away", but such a thought was almost unimaginable to me. And would be to anybody who had firearms training from my Dad. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 21:16:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20650 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:16:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20618 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:16:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-234.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.234]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA04436; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:16:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20594; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:53:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199806272253.RAA20594@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wes Peters cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-reply-to: Message from Wes Peters of "Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:27:57 MDT." <199806272127.PAA20604@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:53:10 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters writes: > % BTW, I do have experience with wildlife in other parts of the US and > % in other countries. The above pretty much holds true. > No argument there. I consider myself extremely lucky to have spotted > a cougar in the wild; most will never see one. There are only > reports of cougars attacking people about once every other year in > the western US, and then it is usually a small child who hasn't been > taught how to deal with a cougar. We had to flush a racoon out from under the raised floor of a computer room Friday. About a mile from the Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, Alabama. FYI: racoons think FDDI cables taste good. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 21:25:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22138 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:25:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from notabene.zer0.org (sac-port398.jps.net [209.63.247.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22120 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:25:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@n1.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by notabene.zer0.org (8.8.7/8.8.8) id VAA09413; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:25:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Message-ID: <19980627212537.B9394@notabene.zer0.org> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:25:37 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD T-Shirts? References: <199806280406.VAA00429@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806280406.VAA00429@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 09:06:46PM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 09:06:46PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I just browse a little at www.freebsd.org and couldn't find a place > to order a FreeBSD T-Shirt?? www.cdrom.com sells FreeBSD T-shirts. Go there and buy buy... Buy the way, should I order the 2.2.6 CD set from WC, or should I just wait for 3.0-RELEASE? I don't yet have a job since I've moved to Sacramento, so money is still a little tight. I can't get both or afford a subscription. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 21:25:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22204 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:25:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22127 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA19545; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:35:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806280435.OAA19545@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <199806272229.RAA20531@nospam.hiwaay.net> from David Kelly at "Jun 27, 98 05:29:50 pm" To: dkelly@hiwaay.net (David Kelly) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:35:06 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly wrote: > ... but such a thought was almost unimaginable > to me. And would be to anybody who had firearms training from my Dad. He'd shoot you if you had a thought like that? I can just imagine the road rage where a computer hacker gets cut off by another driver... he stops at the next intersection and throws his lap top at the offending driver. Chuckle. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 21:30:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA22613 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:30:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (root@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22600 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:30:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@uow.edu.au) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with SMTP id OAA13735; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:30:14 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:30:13 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: Amancio Hasty cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD T-Shirts? In-Reply-To: <199806280406.VAA00429@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I just browse a little at www.freebsd.org and couldn't find a place > to order a FreeBSD T-Shirt?? > > Tnks, > Amancio Last time I checked you could purchase FreeBSD t-shirts from Walnut Creek (www.cdrom.com). Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A "When in doubt, ask someone wiser than yourself..." -unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 22:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01082 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01069 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:34:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA02731; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 01:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 01:28:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Gary Kline cc: drifter@stratos.net, eivind@yes.no, wes@softweyr.com, fpawlak@execpc.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? In-Reply-To: <199806280319.UAA12882@athena.tera.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, Gary Kline wrote: > Rather than mess around, we need a new paradigm in > the way of personal weaponry. I suggest something > like the Personal Grenade. Something that would > take adversaries out at, oh, say, 20 feet and leave > oneself entirely safe. Naw, we just need to be patient. Technology will solve the problem. Eventually all Americans will have little nuclear missiles, and then all of North America will be in perfect peace, since everyone knows that mutual armament is the solution to violence. -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 27 23:08:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA05361 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:08:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05334 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:08:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00594; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806280608.XAA00594@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Gregory Sutter cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD T-Shirts? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:25:37 PDT." <19980627212537.B9394@notabene.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:08:02 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 09:06:46PM -0700, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > I just browse a little at www.freebsd.org and couldn't find a place > > to order a FreeBSD T-Shirt?? > > www.cdrom.com sells FreeBSD T-shirts. Go there and buy buy... Thank you , I bought , I bought !! Got a pointer for a cool FreeBSD pointer?? Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message