From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 04:09:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06849 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:09:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA06803 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:08:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07943; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:08:26 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA03442; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:07:57 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980301130757.56972@follo.net> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:07:57 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Karl Denninger Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <19980228233515.48898@mcs.net> <199803010540.QAA21068@cimlogic.com.au> <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net>; from Karl Denninger on Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 11:41:46PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 11:41:46PM -0600, Karl Denninger wrote: > I've seen enough commentary on the hackers and current lists to think that > perhaps its not a good idea to consider -current a stable piece of code > right now..... am I right in this? In particular, the place I usually run > into trouble is the NFS code and its stability. NFS w/Terry's patches should be fairly good now (but I don't run it harshly, so I really can't tell). Apart from build problems (which have usually been for minor things) and sporadic VM-problems (I'm not certain if all of these are fixed) -current seems to be fairly stable right now. The build problems haven't been due to major changes; these usually come from minor changes, and don't indicate -current's health too well. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 05:22:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12589 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:22:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.zip.com.au (root@mail.zip.com.au [203.12.97.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12478 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:22:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jp@zip.com.au) Received: from zip.com.au (blazer4.zip.com.au [203.62.150.68]) by mail.zip.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11588; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:22:03 +1100 Message-ID: <34D76316.9404EE5B@zip.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:33:59 +0000 From: John Paul Lonie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein CC: Joe Shevland , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /usr/src/release/sysinstall needs YOU. :-) References: <199801280040.AAA10165@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------msECADF57110CB2B9BFF22D3FE" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------msECADF57110CB2B9BFF22D3FE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alfred Perlstein wrote: > there's no point of a "pixel" graphical install for several reasons: > a) i don't think it is a good idea to limit this product to graphical > systems(i run a 586/133 with a mono card) > b) it should work over telnet for remote config. > c) by the time someone has X and java up and running why would they even > need it? :) > d) it should be small and not require so much disk space... > > maybe if it had an optional graphical front end that sorta immitated the > text interface for up and running systems.... that would be cool > HPUX has a nice admin utility called SAM which has a X front end and a txt front end ( in 11.00 they have added a java version) The best part is that you have the sam abilities from all the versions. This sort of system should be what we aim at. > as a side option beside the "niceness" of using java to code, why code it > in java? it will be for freebsd machines, running on x86 hardware (although > i hope some ports work out) using freebsd utilities to commit tasks... so > almost any lang you use will be portable to all versions of freebsd... Not all people only run FreeBSD. Portability and real world usability can only help FreeBSD in the long run. 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Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A truly losing laptop for FreeBSD. References: <199801301238.XAA04311@word.smith.net.au> <199801302236.PAA29877@harmony.village.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms9B82022EE3A3723BAF329EBB" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms9B82022EE3A3723BAF329EBB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all. Warner Losh wrote: > In message <199801301238.XAA04311@word.smith.net.au> Mike Smith writes: > My libretto is plenty snappy. I get similar results to what Mike has > been seeing. The disk drive is a little slow, but not all that bad. > FreeBSD supports my beast, modulo the floppy drive, very very well. Even under linux which tends to have a wider range of device support does not support the floppy. PS writing this on one ;-) --------------ms9B82022EE3A3723BAF329EBB Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIIKYwYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIKVDCCClACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC CNEwggQbMIIDhKADAgECAhAVAfmgaBT9Xf36gSp9B2cWMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMGIxETAP BgNVBAcTCEludGVybmV0MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjE0MDIGA1UECxMrVmVy aVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBDQSAtIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3Vic2NyaWJlcjAeFw05NzEyMjgwMDAw MDBaFw05ODEyMjgyMzU5NTlaMIIBFzERMA8GA1UEBxMISW50ZXJuZXQxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZl cmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTQwMgYDVQQLEytWZXJpU2lnbiBDbGFzcyAxIENBIC0gSW5kaXZpZHVh bCBTdWJzY3JpYmVyMUYwRAYDVQQLEz13d3cudmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkvQ1BT IEluY29ycC4gYnkgUmVmLixMSUFCLkxURChjKTk2MTMwMQYDVQQLEypEaWdpdGFsIElEIENs YXNzIDEgLSBOZXRzY2FwZSBGdWxsIFNlcnZpY2UxGDAWBgNVBAMTD0pvaG4gUGF1bCBMb25p ZTEcMBoGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYNanBAemlwLmNvbS5hdTBcMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA0sAMEgC QQDL4ukxwBtMNyDuIjAgKHOEUKm2cZVMQvs1YnezLYwMsVC0UEToeC9O/dTYqWjX/pa3vivI BdxRPboDB0ORwOd3AgMBAAGjggFdMIIBWTAJBgNVHRMEAjAAMIGvBgNVHSAEgacwgDCABgtg hkgBhvhFAQcBATCAMCgGCCsGAQUFBwIBFhxodHRwczovL3d3dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vQ1BT MGIGCCsGAQUFBwICMFYwFRYOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4wAwIBARo9VmVyaVNpZ24ncyBDUFMg aW5jb3JwLiBieSByZWZlcmVuY2UgbGlhYi4gbHRkLiAoYyk5NyBWZXJpU2lnbgAAAAAAADAR BglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCB4AwgYYGCmCGSAGG+EUBBgMEeBZ2ZDQ2NTJiZDYzZjIwNDcwMjky OTg3NjNjOWQyZjI3NTA2OWM3MzU5YmVkMWIwNTlkYTc1YmM0YmM5NzAxNzQ3ZGE1YzdmNDE0 MWJlYWRiMmJkMmU4OTIwNmFmNmJmOGQzMTE0OTlmYTFiZTRiZmFmM2VhNDU2NDANBgkqhkiG 9w0BAQQFAAOBgQBu4lY7GBlK9+vtxjcYPGG3/pZRk8OGf7t59HTQskgX2jrpF6RBg9nEXntM p00hfks4Dm/czV0BAjFvM9Wh7WBMpVNLypccyAjHLn4CWg3JW6CajDG4wY3sD2Ul2RGH2Xff hYBNtplRK8muEP3h5Xjx8GrPaR3uWyEh1s9O4XoR1DCCAnkwggHioAMCAQICEFIfNR3ycH4A K77KWYcE1TkwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQAwXzELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlT aWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAxIFB1YmxpYyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRp b24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTk2MDYyNzAwMDAwMFoXDTk5MDYyNzIzNTk1OVowYjERMA8GA1UE BxMISW50ZXJuZXQxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTQwMgYDVQQLEytWZXJpU2ln biBDbGFzcyAxIENBIC0gSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJzY3JpYmVyMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUA A4GNADCBiQKBgQC2FKbPTdAFDdjKI9BvqrQpkmOOLPhvltcunXZLEbE2jVfJw/0cxrr+Hgi6 M8qV6r7jW80GqLd5HUQq7XPysVKDaBBwZJHXPmv5912dFEObbpdFmIFH0S3L3bty10w/cari QPJUObwW7s987LrbP2wqsxaxhhKdrpM01bjV0Pc+qQIDAQABozMwMTAPBgNVHRMECDAGAQH/ AgEBMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjARBglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCAQYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQADgYEA wfr3AudXyhF1xpwM+it3T4dFFzvj0sHaD1g5jq6VmQOhqKE4/nmakxcLl4Y5x8poNGa7x4hF 9sgMBe6+lyXv4NRu5H+ddlzOfboUoq4Ln/tnW0ilZyWvGWSI9nLYKSeqNxJqsSivJ4MYZWyN 7UCeTcR4qIbs6SxQv6b5DduwpkowggIxMIIBmgIFAqQAAAEwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQAwXzEL MAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAx IFB1YmxpYyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTk2MDEyOTAwMDAw MFoXDTk5MTIzMTIzNTk1OVowXzELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJ bmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAxIFB1YmxpYyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0 aG9yaXR5MIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDlGb9to1ZhLZlIcfZn3rmN67ee hoAKkQ76OCWvRoiC5XOooJskXQ0fzGVuDLDQVoQYh5oGmxChc9+0WDlrbsH2FdWoqD+qEgaN Max/sDTXjzRniAnNFBHiTkVWaR94AoDa3EeRKbs2yWNcxeDXLYd7obcysHswuiovMaruo2fa 2wIDAQABMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAgUAA4GBAFJzuppV3Nw/gn2wkJhiKoJMdgBuJT3VwglwVwEM D3cfGKH7HGAOoHU7SSFB/qdcLUxCSdP/KNiM6p3+yQfid4JTI95V885Ek/r6TL3KNvNbZrKe yPIMXl7UobQhCTPKO1n8ksI4/K3ZliTgLfqjKfUzaHhOtLyfaTXiqJiUczvEMYIBWjCCAVYC AQEwdjBiMREwDwYDVQQHEwhJbnRlcm5ldDEXMBUGA1UEChMOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4xNDAy BgNVBAsTK1ZlcmlTaWduIENsYXNzIDEgQ0EgLSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXICEBUB +aBoFP1d/fqBKn0HZxYwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKB9MBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEw HAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTk4MDIwNDIxMDcyM1owHgYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMREwDzANBggqhkiG 9w0DAgIBKDAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUrA4SIhAndqf3+oYKxIqTn/XUFXgwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQAEQIuNfDYxC6dRXFkt+DdaoNaAwBVW8CJog6O/WREN0vWVyi6KFQgoIC7+0lb58rxg biZfMYtonWItqbuHJM2xZ1Q= --------------ms9B82022EE3A3723BAF329EBB-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 05:45:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14867 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:45:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14862 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id OAA27858; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:15:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA11705; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:19:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980301131921.45593@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:19:21 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Vinay Bannai Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card References: <199802271811.KAA00364@bubba.whistle.com> <199802280013.QAA04406@shell6.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199802280013.QAA04406@shell6.ba.best.com>; from Vinay Bannai on Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 04:13:12PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 04:13:12PM -0800, Vinay Bannai wrote: > > Yup. The ifnet device has a flag which indicates that it is capable of > doing checksum in the hardware and you set this flag in the mbufs and pass > it along. This is pretty usefule when computing checksumn in hardware for > transmits too. > > I know of atleast two protocol stack implementations (popular too) that > use these techniques... Which one ? Is it a secret ? ;-) -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 05:45:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14894 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:45:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14883; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:45:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id OAA27863; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:15:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA02945; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:53:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19980301135311.21538@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:53:11 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Andrzej Bialecki , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, G Hasse Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: PicoBSD 0.3 is available! References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 12:43:39PM +0100 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 12:43:39PM +0100, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > Hi! > > After lengthy period of fighting with memory-related issues, I am pleased > to announce the availability of PicoBSD 0.3 - one floppy version of > FreeBSD 3.0. There are basically two variants of it: one for dialup > access, and one router-like. You can get more info, and download it at: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~abial Sounds interesting ;-) -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 06:19:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17310 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 06:19:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17299 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 06:19:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199803011419.GAA17299@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA061701973; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:19:33 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: boot manager w/ freebsd To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:19:32 +1100 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The boot manager used with freebsd 2.2.x usually presents one with a menu of F-keys for each partition which can be booted from. When there are two disks on the system, there'll be an extra to goto the second disk and back again. When there are three disks on the system, you can only boot from the first (no option to goto the second or third disk is given). Is this fixable ? FWIW, I've found that the boot manager so installed has been the most reliable (for me) with multibooting varios operating systems. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 07:31:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22671 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:31:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA22641; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02458; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:31:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199803011531.KAA02458@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-Reply-To: <19980301025533.18356@emu.sourcee.com> from Norman C Rice at "Mar 1, 98 02:55:33 am" To: nrice@emu.sourcee.com (Norman C Rice) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:31:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, karl@mcs.net, jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Norman C Rice said: > > > > I think that the system is very close to stable again, with the > > NFS caveat. Once I can solve the (very reproduceable) problem, > > I will be much happier with NFS. There are also some outstanding > > bugfixes for NFS, which I am working with in my local tree... > > Would any of those outstanding ``bug fixes'' resolve the issue with > NFS client freezing the system when the server is non-responsive? > Not yet. I am working on things that are *more* severe than that right now. Not discounting the above problem though as not being severe. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 07:43:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24697 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:43:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24684 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:43:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA02082; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:42:59 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id JAA07063; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:42:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980301094258.03567@mcs.net> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:42:58 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Studded Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <19980228233515.48898@mcs.net> <199803010540.QAA21068@cimlogic.com.au> <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> <34F8FBE6.8DE1C457@san.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <34F8FBE6.8DE1C457@san.rr.com>; from Studded on Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 10:10:46PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 10:10:46PM -0800, Studded wrote: > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > I'm still trying to find out where -CURRENT is right now in terms of > > stability and what does/doesn't work. As a result this is pretty germane to > > me at the moment, but I don't have commit access and don't understand why > > those changes were made anyway (which means I wouldn't back them out without > > knowing). > > You can read the CVS logs without commit access. Check out the CVS > repository link on http://www.freebsd.org/support.html. I'm on the commit mailing list, and I can always look at the deltas :-) That doesn't mean that I understand the full reason for a particular change. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 07:45:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:45:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25412 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:45:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA02159; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:45:30 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id JAA07174; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:45:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980301094530.23053@mcs.net> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:45:30 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Terry Lambert Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> <199803010710.AAA21269@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803010710.AAA21269@usr09.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 07:10:36AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 07:10:36AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I've seen enough commentary on the hackers and current lists to think that > > perhaps its not a good idea to consider -current a stable piece of code > > right now..... am I right in this? In particular, the place I usually run > > into trouble is the NFS code and its stability. > > Please clarify here. You mean NFS *client*, right? I've been getting > pretty deeply into this code lately, and it's the *client* that freezes > up here... > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org So you're saying the NFS *SERVER* Code is completely stable right now? :-) (Actually, both are germane to me). -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 07:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26360 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:48:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26345; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:48:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA02227; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:48:14 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id JAA07192; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:48:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980301094814.32295@mcs.net> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:48:14 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> <199803010741.CAA01681@dyson.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199803010741.CAA01681@dyson.iquest.net>; from John S. Dyson on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 02:41:21AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 02:41:21AM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Karl Denninger said: > > > > I'm still trying to find out where -CURRENT is right now in terms of > > stability and what does/doesn't work. As a result this is pretty germane to > > me at the moment, but I don't have commit access and don't understand why > > those changes were made anyway (which means I wouldn't back them out without > > knowing). > > > I am NOT super-happy with NFS yet. I have a regression and performance > test suite that I run before committing VM code (believe it or not), and > NFS doesn't pass a critical test (paging.) It panics the system with > an infamous biodone error, and I will try to track it down tomorrow. > > I am freezing the current state of my VM work, except for bugfixes, > and perhaps some threads or AIO things (which are not part of the > core system.) Hopefully, we will be stable (with some anecdotal > evidence) soon, and I want to track (watch) the VFS layering changes > carefully. All of the above will fill my available time. > > I think that the system is very close to stable again, with the > NFS caveat. Once I can solve the (very reproduceable) problem, > I will be much happier with NFS. There are also some outstanding That's what I thought the state of things was.... This is NFS on the client side, right? Do you know of any problems with NFS on the *server* side? Please keep the lists posted on what you find and fix - the commit logs come across in volume, and sometimes I miss an important one. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 07:56:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27884 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:56:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27806; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:55:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA02569; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:55:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199803011555.KAA02569@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-Reply-To: <19980301094814.32295@mcs.net> from Karl Denninger at "Mar 1, 98 09:48:14 am" To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:55:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Denninger said: > > > That's what I thought the state of things was.... This is NFS on the client > side, right? > Yes. > > Do you know of any problems with NFS on the *server* side? > Not that I know of (other than localhost filesystems.) > > Please keep the lists posted on what you find and fix - the commit logs come > across in volume, and sometimes I miss an important one. > Okay. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 07:56:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27996 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:56:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27941 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:56:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA02386; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:56:17 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id JAA07531; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:56:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980301095616.35833@mcs.net> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:56:16 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Eivind Eklund Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails References: <19980228233515.48898@mcs.net> <199803010540.QAA21068@cimlogic.com.au> <19980228234146.52327@mcs.net> <19980301130757.56972@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19980301130757.56972@follo.net>; from Eivind Eklund on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 01:07:57PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 01:07:57PM +0100, Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sat, Feb 28, 1998 at 11:41:46PM -0600, Karl Denninger wrote: > > I've seen enough commentary on the hackers and current lists to think that > > perhaps its not a good idea to consider -current a stable piece of code > > right now..... am I right in this? In particular, the place I usually run > > into trouble is the NFS code and its stability. > > NFS w/Terry's patches should be fairly good now (but I don't run it harshly, > so I really can't tell). > > Apart from build problems (which have usually been for minor things) and > sporadic VM-problems (I'm not certain if all of these are fixed) -current > seems to be fairly stable right now. The build problems haven't been due to > major changes; these usually come from minor changes, and don't indicate > -current's health too well. > > Eivind. Well, that's not good enough. Terry's patches haven't been committed, and there has to be a reason for that. I HATE off-stream things. I have to deal with some of them all the time, because we have some local ones (to do our funny clustering and kernel-based permission masking, to name two). That's enough of a pain in the ass to track across multiple revisions. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 07:59:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA28740 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:59:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotmail.com (f61.hotmail.com [207.82.250.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA28679 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:59:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from the_reman@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 14695 invoked by uid 0); 1 Mar 1998 15:58:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19980301155829.14694.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.77.158.100 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 01 Mar 1998 07:58:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.77.158.100] From: "Chris Day" To: l.rizzo@iet.unipi.it Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, the_reman@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 02:58:26 EST Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi (and others), I have a tiny problem getting my soundcard to work under FreeBSD. Yes, it is the infamous OPTi 82C931. I actually have a proper OPTi soundcard, so I thought, stupidly, that it might be easy to get it to work. Anyway, I installed pnp971020.tgz source patched the files, then installed the snd980215.tgz source and patched the files. Then I included various bits, compiled, then no matter what I tried it didn't work. This is sound part of my kernel config file - GENERIC >controller pnp0 >device pcm0 at isa? port 0x530 tty irq 10 drq 1 flags 0x10 >vector pcmintr >device pcm1 at isa? port 0x220 tty irq 5 drq 1 vector pcmintr The reason I put in two pcm devices was just in case it detected and attached the OPTi in MSS or SB Pro mode. I was hacking the kernel to see if I could get the sound card operating, but it wasn't until I found out that it had to be configured with the PnP registers that I realized that I couldn't do it via the non-PnP drivers within the original /sys/i386/isa/snd directory. Finally the last thing I did was go into the config and enter this PnP line. >OPTi931: PnP id 0x3109143e > > http://www.opti.com/ opti931_21.pdf > > pnp 1 1 os enable port0 0x534 port2 0x220 port3 0xe0d irq0 10 >drq0 1 drq1 6 After I entered this it still didn't work. Something funny I noted was that if you went into DOS and loaded the driver, the card still didn't get detected by the PnP auto-detect but was still getting attached to the pcm0 device at 0x220,5,1. But, when this happened I couldn't get any audio. (Even if I changed all /dev's to snd1) If I reinstall all the sources and add an sb0 device et al in as normal, I can do the boot up in DOS get the OPTi initialized then reboot into FreeBSD and getting it working okay. Should I stick to this? Finally, is the files I have for pnp???.tgz and snd???.tgz the most up to date? Some things you might want to know. I have - 486 dx2 80 FreeBSD 2.2.5/Current Non-PnP motherboard I think thats about all you need. If you were able to get it working under these conditions could you send me a copy of the config file as well as any modifications to the code. Just in case you need it here's a copy of the relevant dmesg output. >FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE #0: Mon Mar 2 01:51:19 EST 1998 > root@reman.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC >Calibrating clock(s) ... i8254 clock: 1193666 Hz >CLK_USE_I8254_CALIBRATION not specified - using default frequency >CPU: i486 DX2 (486-class CPU) > Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x435 Stepping=5 > Features=0x3 >real memory = 25165824 (24576K bytes) >config > ls >Device port irq drq iomem iosize unit flags enabled >pcm0 0x530 10 1 0x0 0 0 0x10 Yes >pcm1 0x220 5 1 0x0 0 1 0x0 Yes >CSN LDN conf en irqs drqs others (PnP devices) > 1 1 OS Y 10 0 1 6 port 0x534 0x0 0x220 0xe0d >config >quit >avail memory = 22503424 (21976K bytes) >Probing for PnP devices: >Trying Read_Port at 203 >Trying Read_Port at 243 >Trying Read_Port at 283 >Trying Read_Port at 2c3 >Trying Read_Port at 303 >Trying Read_Port at 343 >Trying Read_Port at 383 >Trying Read_Port at 3c3 >No Plug-n-Play devices were found >Probing for devices on the ISA bus: >mss_detect error, busy still set (0xff) >pcm0 not found at 0x530 >mss_detect error, busy still set (0xff) >pcm1 not found at 0x220 Thanks in advance. regards, chris -- Christopher Day, The reman, Loosecannon E-Mail the_reman@hotmail.com Homepage http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/1218 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 09:27:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:27:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA07056 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:27:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id QAA18996; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:55:24 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803011555.QAA18996@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: your mail To: the_reman@hotmail.com (Chris Day) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:55:24 +0100 (MET) Cc: l.rizzo@iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, the_reman@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <19980301155829.14694.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Chris Day" at Mar 2, 98 02:58:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Luigi (and others), > > I have a tiny problem getting my soundcard to work under FreeBSD. Yes, > it is the infamous OPTi 82C931. I actually have a proper OPTi > soundcard, so I thought, stupidly, that it might be easy to get it to > work. I don't like this card very much, because it cost me way too much time to implement workarounds for incomplete documentation and idisincracies of the board. But since i have several of these cards, and it is hard to get any other MSS board here, it is definitely supported :) > Anyway, I installed pnp971020.tgz source patched the files, then > installed the snd980215.tgz source and patched the files. Then I > included various bits, compiled, then no matter what I tried it didn't > work. ... pnp 1 1 os enable port0 0x534 port2 0x220 port3 0xe0d irq0 10 drq0 1 drq1 6 i checked on my system and the device is configured as follows: CSN LDN conf en irq drq vendor_id. .... 1 1 BIOS y 10 - 1 6 0x3109143e port 0x534 0x380 0x220 0xe0d 1 2 BIOS n - - - - 0x3109143e port 0x201 1 3 BIOS n - - - - 0x3109143e however, another card i have requires 0xe0c as port3 address. This is undocumented in the opti931 docs, and i found out by looking at the pnpinfo output. One more thing, i think the opti931 can be hardwired (and perhaps programmed -- i am not sure about this) to disable PnP. For the hardwired solution, maybe your card has a jumper to do this. For the software, you should look at the data sheets if they give any hint. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 10:41:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14208 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:41:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14178 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:41:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA15090 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd015088; Sun Mar 1 10:41:33 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id KAA17737 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:41:25 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199803011841.KAA17737@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:41:25 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi. I bought an Intel DK440LX motherboard (Dual PII, Adaptec AIC-7895, Crystal sound card and EtherExpress Pro/100B onboard). The fxp driver seems to have a little problem: fxp0: rev 0x02 int a irq 11 on pci0.3.0 fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type = 11, addr = 1 Ifconfig shows: fxp0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 inet 207.90.181.122 netmask 0xffffff80 broadcast 207.90.181.127 ether 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 media: manual supported media: manual And you can't set anything via "ifconfig media ... mediaopt" Anyone seen this ? Any idea ? Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 11:33:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19818 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:33:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19642 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:33:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA18779; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:35:08 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:35:07 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-Reply-To: <199803011841.KAA17737@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > Hi. > > I bought an Intel DK440LX motherboard (Dual PII, Adaptec AIC-7895, Crystal > sound card and EtherExpress Pro/100B onboard). The fxp driver seems to > have a little problem: > > fxp0: rev 0x02 int a irq 11 on pci0.3.0 > fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type = 11, addr = 1 The same warning in my case. But see below. > > Ifconfig shows: > > fxp0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > inet 207.90.181.122 netmask 0xffffff80 broadcast 207.90.181.127 > ether 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > media: manual > supported media: manual > > And you can't set anything via "ifconfig media ... mediaopt" Hmmm. Not in my case - it works perfectly. But I run -current on it, and you forgot to tell us your version... ;-) Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 11:38:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20678 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:38:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20619 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:37:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA15298; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd015295; Sun Mar 1 11:37:20 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id LAA22739; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:37:10 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199803011937.LAA22739@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-Reply-To: from Andrzej Bialecki at "Mar 1, 98 08:35:07 pm" To: abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:37:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > I bought an Intel DK440LX motherboard (Dual PII, Adaptec AIC-7895, Crystal > > sound card and EtherExpress Pro/100B onboard). The fxp driver seems to > > have a little problem: > > > > fxp0: rev 0x02 int a irq 11 on pci0.3.0 > > fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > > fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type = 11, addr = 1 > > The same warning in my case. But see below. > > > > > Ifconfig shows: > > > > fxp0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > > inet 207.90.181.122 netmask 0xffffff80 broadcast 207.90.181.127 > > ether 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > > media: manual > > supported media: manual > > > > And you can't set anything via "ifconfig media ... mediaopt" > > Hmmm. Not in my case - it works perfectly. But I run -current on it, and > you forgot to tell us your version... ;-) 2.2.5 RELEASE and 3.0-current SNAP 980228 > > Andrzej Bialecki > > ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- > abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } > Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." > Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. > ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- > > Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 11:44:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:44:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21487 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:44:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21058; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:46:37 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:46:37 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-Reply-To: <199803011937.LAA22739@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > I bought an Intel DK440LX motherboard (Dual PII, Adaptec AIC-7895, Crystal > > > sound card and EtherExpress Pro/100B onboard). The fxp driver seems to > > > have a little problem: > > > > > > fxp0: rev 0x02 int a irq 11 on pci0.3.0 > > > fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > > > fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type = 11, addr = 1 > > > > The same warning in my case. But see below. > > > > > > > > Ifconfig shows: > > > > > > fxp0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > > > inet 207.90.181.122 netmask 0xffffff80 broadcast 207.90.181.127 > > > ether 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > > > media: manual > > > supported media: manual > > > > > > And you can't set anything via "ifconfig media ... mediaopt" > > > > Hmmm. Not in my case - it works perfectly. But I run -current on it, and > > you forgot to tell us your version... ;-) > > 2.2.5 RELEASE and 3.0-current SNAP 980228 Ok. You'll have to wait till tomorrow, when I'm at work and can check the exact revision of the chip and so on... Do you use it in 10Mbps or 100Mbps? I use it only in 10Mbps mode... Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 12:09:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA26085 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:09:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26075 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:09:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA15433; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd015428; Sun Mar 1 12:09:58 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id MAA23799; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:09:48 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199803012009.MAA23799@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-Reply-To: from Andrzej Bialecki at "Mar 1, 98 08:46:37 pm" To: abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:09:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: ulf@Alameda.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > > > On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > I bought an Intel DK440LX motherboard (Dual PII, Adaptec AIC-7895, Crystal > > > > sound card and EtherExpress Pro/100B onboard). The fxp driver seems to > > > > have a little problem: > > > > > > > > fxp0: rev 0x02 int a irq 11 on pci0.3.0 > > > > fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > > > > fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type = 11, addr = 1 > > > > > > The same warning in my case. But see below. > > > > > > > > > > > Ifconfig shows: > > > > > > > > fxp0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 > > > > inet 207.90.181.122 netmask 0xffffff80 broadcast 207.90.181.127 > > > > ether 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > > > > media: manual > > > > supported media: manual > > > > > > > > And you can't set anything via "ifconfig media ... mediaopt" > > > > > > Hmmm. Not in my case - it works perfectly. But I run -current on it, and > > > you forgot to tell us your version... ;-) > > > > 2.2.5 RELEASE and 3.0-current SNAP 980228 > > Ok. You'll have to wait till tomorrow, when I'm at work and can check the > exact revision of the chip and so on... Do you use it in 10Mbps or > 100Mbps? I use it only in 10Mbps mode... > > Andrzej Bialecki Hub says: Port Name Status Vlan Level Duplex Speed Type ----- ------------------ ---------- ---------- ------ ------ ----- ------------ 5/11 connected 1 normal full 100 10/100BaseTX And I just checked transfer rates, very bad. many runts. Switched hub from Full Duplex 100 to Auto and it still shows Full Duplex and 100, but much better transfer rate. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 13:36:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07129 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:36:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07090 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:36:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09811; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:33:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803012133.NAA09811@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Darren Reed cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot manager w/ freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 01:19:32 +1100." <199803011419.GAA17299@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 13:33:10 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The boot manager used with freebsd 2.2.x usually presents one with a menu > of F-keys for each partition which can be booted from. > > When there are two disks on the system, there'll be an extra to goto > the second disk and back again. > > When there are three disks on the system, you can only boot from the > first (no option to goto the second or third disk is given). > > Is this fixable ? It needs someone with the Booteasy source code, and whatever tool(s) were used to build it. Note that it won't present you with a list of more than 2 drives, even if it is fixed. If you want that functionality, you will need to install something slightly smarter like OS-BS. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 13:38:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07549 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:38:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu [130.126.72.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07516 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:38:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu) Received: (from dannyman@localhost) by arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA28098; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:38:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980301153850.12942@urh.uiuc.edu> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:38:50 -0600 From: dannyman To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: high load, idle CPU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG my system has just jumped in to sustained high load, and i don't know why. this is a build of -current i think within the past week. would this be a bug in the system somewhere, or some naturally weird phenomenon? (i don't know whether to send-pr or email hackers, but the traffic's been a bit light so ...) top -b; last pid: 27341; load averages: 3.16, 2.50, 1.56 15:35:37 86 processes: 3 running, 83 sleeping Mem: 6368K Active, 48M Inact, 16M Wired, 6908K Cache, 8323K Buf, 712K Free Swap: 100M Total, 87M Used, 13M Free, 87% Inuse PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 243 root 2 0 5256K 3268K select 53:30 2.17% 2.17% XF86_S3 261 dannyman 2 0 296K 356K select 13:04 0.08% 0.08% xdaliclock 260 dannyman 10 0 272K 364K nanslp 7:36 0.04% 0.04% xosview 17294 dannyman 2 0 516K 1280K select 0:00 0.04% 0.04% xterm 263 dannyman 10 0 728K 296K nanslp 14:57 0.00% 0.00% xearth 740 dannyman 10 0 75012K 844K wait 1:09 0.00% 0.00% perl5.00404 270 dannyman 2 0 17508K 816K select 0:56 0.00% 0.00% pppload 194 root 2 0 248K 272K select 0:37 0.00% 0.00% atalkd 174 root 10 0 500K 264K nanslp 0:26 0.00% 0.00% httpd 216 root 2 0 476K 388K select 0:23 0.00% 0.00% nmbd 27464 dannyman 10 0 232K 296K nanslp 0:22 0.00% 0.00% tail 17212 dannyman 2 0 296K 608K select 0:18 0.00% 0.00% xdaliclock 23232 dannyman 2 0 13044K 2420K select 0:15 0.00% 0.00% communicator-4 22329 dannyman 2 0 404K 288K select 0:14 0.00% 0.00% ssh 17214 dannyman 10 0 584K 508K nanslp 0:11 0.00% 0.00% xearth 256 dannyman 2 0 396K 300K select 0:08 0.00% 0.00% afterstep 268 dannyman 2 0 284K 408K select 0:07 0.00% 0.00% xload 4046 dannyman 2 0 764K 344K select 0:07 0.00% 0.00% mutt okay, and if dmesg is something that might be valuable; Copyright (c) 1992-1998 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #2: Wed Feb 25 00:50:33 CST 1998 root@arh0300.urh.uiuc.edu:/newhome/src/sys/compile/STUMPY Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz cost 2524 ns Timecounter "TSC" frequency 99952270 Hz cost 356 ns CPU: AMD-K5(tm) Processor (99.95-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x511 Stepping=1 Features=0x21bf real memory = 83886080 (81920K bytes) avail memory = 79253504 (77396K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1 vga0: rev 0x54 int a irq 11 on pci0.17.0 ed1: rev 0x00 int a irq 10 on pci0.20.0 ed1: address 00:c0:0c:b0:ad:c6, type NE2000 (16 bit) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 not found at 0x280 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt1 at 0x378-0x37f on isa fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 1222MB (2503872 sectors), 2484 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 at 0x170-0x177 irq 15 on isa wdc1: unit 0 (wd2): wd2: 6149MB (12594960 sectors), 13328 cyls, 15 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, dma, iordy wcd0: 1377Kb/sec, 256Kb cache, audio play, 256 volume levels, ejectable tray wcd0: 120mm audio disc loaded, unlocked, lock protected npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa snd0: sbxvi0 at ? drq 5 on isa snd0: sbmidi0 at 0x330 on isa snd0: opl0 at 0x388 on isa snd0: pid 848 (pppload), uid 1000: exited on signal 6 (core dumped) pid 15218 (pppload), uid 1000: exited on signal 6 (core dumped) pid 27498 (pppload), uid 1000: exited on signal 6 (core dumped) swap_pager: suggest more swap space: 158 MB pid 17228 (pppload), uid 1000: exited on signal 6 (core dumped) -- //Dan -=- This message brought to you by djhoward@uiuc.edu -=- \\/yori -=- Information - http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/djhoward/ -=- aiokomete -=- Our Honored Symbol deserves an Honorable Retirement To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 14:44:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17196 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:44:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17175 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:43:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05393; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd005377; Sun Mar 1 15:43:35 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA27485; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:43:33 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803012243.PAA27485@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: boot manager w/ freebsd To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:43:33 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803011419.GAA17299@hub.freebsd.org> from "Darren Reed" at Mar 2, 98 01:19:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > When there are three disks on the system, you can only boot from the > first (no option to goto the second or third disk is given). > > Is this fixable ? Yes. You need to burn a new BIOS for your machine and up the drive count from 2 to however many you want so that the BIOS will put the right %dl value (ie: 0x82, 0x83, ...). The problem is that boot managers can only load code via the INT 13 read interface, and your BIOS provides limits on the interface. Some SCSI BIOSes don't have these limits, so if you are using SCSI hardware, it may not be a problem. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 14:54:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18587 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:54:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18581 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:54:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10127; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:53:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803012253.OAA10127@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot manager w/ freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 22:43:33 GMT." <199803012243.PAA27485@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 14:53:00 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > When there are three disks on the system, you can only boot from the > > first (no option to goto the second or third disk is given). > > > > Is this fixable ? > > Yes. You need to burn a new BIOS for your machine and up the drive > count from 2 to however many you want so that the BIOS will put the > right %dl value (ie: 0x82, 0x83, ...). Uh, actually I think the problem is the Booteasy only checks the LSB of the drive count value. If it's set, there's one drive, if it's clear, there are two. It's been a long time since I looked at the code, but I do seem to recall that with 4 drives you get two items on the menu again. Either way, the booteasy code design is such that it's really only suited for simple arrangements. For more complex systems, I have to recommend either the OS/2 Boot Manager (if you have OS/2) or System Commander. If you insist on freeware, then OS-BS may also do what you want. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 15:05:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19689 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:05:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19661 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01280; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:04:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd001266; Sun Mar 1 16:04:46 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA28537; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:04:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803012304.QAA28537@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help - make world fails To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:04:40 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980301094530.23053@mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Mar 1, 98 09:45:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I've seen enough commentary on the hackers and current lists to think that > > > perhaps its not a good idea to consider -current a stable piece of code > > > right now..... am I right in this? In particular, the place I usually run > > > into trouble is the NFS code and its stability. > > > > Please clarify here. You mean NFS *client*, right? I've been getting > > pretty deeply into this code lately, and it's the *client* that freezes > > up here... > > So you're saying the NFS *SERVER* Code is completely stable right now? :-) > > (Actually, both are germane to me). The NFS *SERVER* code is a client of VFS, just as the system calls are a client of VFS. It proxies the VFS interface out via RPC calls to client machines. In effect: =========================================================================== Client machine Server machine u ------------------------------------------------------------------ k --------------------- --------------------- | | ,--------> | RPC server | | system calls | | --------------------- | | | | NFS server code | --------------------- | --------------------- | VFS | | | VFS | (peering) --------------------- | --------------------- | NFS client code | | | local media FS | --------------------- | --------------------- | RPC client | <------' --------------------- =========================================================================== If being a client of the VFS didn't work, then your system calls would not work. 8-). There is a slight problem in that "some pigs are more equal than others" -- in other words, the NFS server is an unequal pig when compared to system calls. System calls are given precedence in any conflict between the two. The biggest place you can see this is the "cookie" code that is used for arbitratry directory iteration restarts, used in VOP_READDIR by NFS, but not by other VFS clients. This results from differences in the struct dirent exported by FFS and the struct dirent exported by NFS. Doug Rabson and I agreed a long time ago that the best soloution to this would be to seperate the VOP_READDIR into two VOPS: one to get the directory blocks, and one to iterate within them. This would get rid of the cookies at the interface level, and the server would get block snapshots that it could get lease notifications on. A worst case scenario here is a create after delete in the same directory block, with uncompacted free space. This would result, potentially, returning a file name to the client twice, if the name was 24 characters or larger. AFAIK, there is one bug, related to AIX clients, in the NFS cookie restart code. There may be other bugs, but they will all be in the (very thin) veneer. Mostly in the complex parts of the name lookup code, where NFS, as a VFS client, is forced to jump through hoops for the underlying code's bias toward system call consumers. One very good example of this problem is that a VFS consumer must be prepared for the underlying VFS code to free its resources without warning or notification (like cn_pnbuf, for instance 8-)). For the most part, I believe the server code, at least for V2, is pretty solid, and I was pretty sure about V3 as well, but there is a wierdness in the multiple directory entry lookup; I don't know if it will ever be triggered, but there is a potential for a buffer overrrun. Does that (sort of) answer your question? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 15:17:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20865 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:17:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20850 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:17:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03978; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd003946; Sun Mar 1 16:17:03 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA04517; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:17:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803012317.QAA04517@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help - make world fails To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:17:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: eivind@yes.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980301095616.35833@mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Mar 1, 98 09:56:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, that's not good enough. Terry's patches haven't been committed, and > there has to be a reason for that. My NFS patches being discussed don't do anything other than locks. There is an architectural issue here as to whether or not the advisory locking should go to a veto-based interface. My arguments for this are: o Common code o Locks go to vnode instead of in core inode o locks off vnode helps with stacking if VOP_FINALVP is implemented and used. This is pretty much a win for union and agregate FS's *only* o NFS client locks need to be remembered locally so that they can be reasserted in case of a server crash. This is my way of saving the state. o NFS wire traffic is reduced, if the lock conflict is between clients on the same machine (faster fail). o Ability to teat-and-not-set for multiplexing FS's (NFS is a mux for local vs. remote locks, and unionfs is a mux for local vs. local locks). I think they are overwhelming, but I may be biased, having written the code. ;-). This is a style decision that I have not been persuasive enough about yet. That the code is "there" is not enough, probably because the rpc.lockd and rpc.statd code has not been completed and/or the client RPC code has not been completed. I'm wary of doing either of these before the infrastructure is committed because of mega-commit-phobia. > I HATE off-stream things. I have to deal with some of them all the time, > because we have some local ones (to do our funny clustering and kernel-based > permission masking, to name two). That's enough of a pain in the ass to > track across multiple revisions. If they were committed, they would not fix your client problems, unless your problems were lock-related. If your problems *were* lock related, they would *apparently* fix them, if you only test between clients on the same machine, until the other code goes in as well. Most likely, your client problems are *not* lock related, so for you, the patches being integrated would be a NOP. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 15:23:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22076 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:23:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server4.mpcbbs.com.br (server4.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22005 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:22:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from capriotti@geocities.com) Received: from hot_nt (node56.mpc.com.br [200.246.0.56]) by server4.mpcbbs.com.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA18335 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:22:54 -0300 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980302082915.00a60cb0@pop.mpc.com.br> X-Sender: capriotti@pop.mpc.com.br X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:29:23 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Capriotti Subject: Re: /usr/src/release/sysinstall needs YOU. :-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I hate do discuss things I cannot help with - rolling up sleeves and working I mean - but this is a discussion I started (re starded as far as I know) and I still feel unconfortable for it's repercution, so, here we go one more time: I agree thet a pixel based interface would look graet, but I surrender to the argument that it may not be THAT important. BUT, a visual interface IS. I won't give my opinion; I will one more time call you attention to facts like: you put someone familiarized to networking in front of a NetWare server and tell him a couple of basic commands; In a couple of hours he will be able to put the server up and running, reconfigured, and probably better than it wasw. you can make an administrator for netware out of nothing in a week or so, and all of this because of a friendly VISUAL interface. of course documentation is important, but also is the visual efect of organization. I am that case; I had to configure a Netware server to access Internet w/o ever having done that and I was able to do it in a couple of days, w/o anyones help (some documentation was avaliable, of course). But I had problems to remove one of the network cards from free, because I just couldn't find where I shoud mess. Documentation is fine, but just if you know where to start looking at. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 15:43:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25121 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:43:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25114; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:43:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA11182; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd011125; Sun Mar 1 16:26:59 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA04854; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:26:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803012326.QAA04854@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help - make world fails To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:26:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nrice@emu.sourcee.com, karl@mcs.net, jb@cimlogic.com.au, joe@via.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803011531.KAA02458@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Mar 1, 98 10:31:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I think that the system is very close to stable again, with the > > > NFS caveat. Once I can solve the (very reproduceable) problem, > > > I will be much happier with NFS. There are also some outstanding > > > bugfixes for NFS, which I am working with in my local tree... > > > > Would any of those outstanding ``bug fixes'' resolve the issue with > > NFS client freezing the system when the server is non-responsive? > > Not yet. I am working on things that are *more* severe than that > right now. Not discounting the above problem though as not being > severe. IMO, this is a problem in the RPC state machine not being sensitive to remote resets in the middle of an operation. Basically, an RPC call is made, your request is ack'ed or nak'ed, and if it was ack'ed, you go into a state from which you can only emerge with more data from the server. Probably this needs to timeout back to a retry as if you had not been ack'ed. I have not looked very deeply into what this would mean in terms of needing to unwind state, in the case that the original reques could no longer be validly served (ie: open/unlink an NFS file (results in a rename) and continue to do I/O). One thing that would help is server-signalling. This is basically the job of rpc.statd. THe operation could be retried before the timeout. One real pain is that for a long delay link, ie: satellite, Sprint (;-)), etc., if you were to restart the call that was ACK'ed and wait for another ACK, you would have to accept a response-without-ACK to make yourself robust (ie: if the OP was a "delete file" or whatever, it's not idempotent -- ie: unlike a block write, you can't replay the event with no ill effect). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 15:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26805 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:53:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26791 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:53:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24569; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:50:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803012350.PAA24569@implode.root.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 23:17:00 GMT." <199803012317.QAA04517@usr08.primenet.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:50:22 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> Well, that's not good enough. Terry's patches haven't been committed, and >> there has to be a reason for that. > >My NFS patches being discussed don't do anything other than locks. > >There is an architectural issue here as to whether or not the advisory >locking should go to a veto-based interface. My arguments for this are: > >o Common code > >o Locks go to vnode instead of in core inode > >o locks off vnode helps with stacking if VOP_FINALVP is > implemented and used. This is pretty much a win for > union and agregate FS's *only* > >o NFS client locks need to be remembered locally so that > they can be reasserted in case of a server crash. This > is my way of saving the state. > >o NFS wire traffic is reduced, if the lock conflict is > between clients on the same machine (faster fail). > >o Ability to teat-and-not-set for multiplexing FS's (NFS > is a mux for local vs. remote locks, and unionfs is a > mux for local vs. local locks). As I see it, except for the last one on the list, the rest of the above are not arguments in favor of "veto-based" advisory locking since they can all be acheived without that. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 16:00:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28543 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:00:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28502 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:00:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24648; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:57:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803012357.PAA24648@implode.root.com> To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: abial@nask.pl (Andrzej Bialecki), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 12:09:48 PST." <199803012009.MAA23799@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:57:24 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type = 11, addr = 1 ... >Port Name Status Vlan Level Duplex Speed Type >----- ------------------ ---------- ---------- ------ ------ ----- ------------ > 5/11 connected 1 normal full 100 10/100BaseTX > >And I just checked transfer rates, very bad. many runts. >Switched hub from Full Duplex 100 to Auto and it still shows Full Duplex and >100, but much better transfer rate. When that error comes out, full-duplex operation won't work correctly, so you'll have to use half duplex until support can be added for the PHY. It would help if you told me what chips were on the board. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 16:08:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00528 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:08:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00513 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:08:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA16212; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:08:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd016210; Sun Mar 1 16:08:28 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id QAA00822; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:08:26 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199803020008.QAA00822@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-Reply-To: <199803012357.PAA24648@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Mar 1, 98 03:57:24 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:08:25 -0800 (PST) Cc: ulf@Alameda.net, abial@nask.pl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > > fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type = 11, addr = 1 > ... > >Port Name Status Vlan Level Duplex Speed Type > >----- ------------------ ---------- ---------- ------ ------ ----- ------------ > > 5/11 connected 1 normal full 100 10/100BaseTX > > > >And I just checked transfer rates, very bad. many runts. > >Switched hub from Full Duplex 100 to Auto and it still shows Full Duplex and > >100, but much better transfer rate. > > When that error comes out, full-duplex operation won't work correctly, so > you'll have to use half duplex until support can be added for the PHY. It > would help if you told me what chips were on the board. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project System chipset is Intel 82443LX PCI/A.G.P. and Intel 82371AB. The Ethernet chip is 82557. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 16:14:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01255 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:14:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01236 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:14:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24822; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:08:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803020008.QAA24822@implode.root.com> To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: abial@nask.pl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:08:25 PST." <199803020008.QAA00822@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:08:57 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >System chipset is Intel 82443LX PCI/A.G.P. and Intel 82371AB. The >Ethernet chip is 82557. I need to know which PHY chip is being used; it should be close to the 82557 since it connects to it. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 16:21:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03074 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:21:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03068 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:21:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA16275; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:21:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd016273; Sun Mar 1 16:21:26 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id QAA01227; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:21:23 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199803020021.QAA01227@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-Reply-To: <199803020008.QAA24822@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Mar 1, 98 04:08:57 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:21:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: ulf@Alameda.net, abial@nask.pl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >System chipset is Intel 82443LX PCI/A.G.P. and Intel 82371AB. The > >Ethernet chip is 82557. > > I need to know which PHY chip is being used; it should be close to the > 82557 since it connects to it. > I will open it later, but the manual says: Intel 82555 PHY. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 16:41:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05843 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:41:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05826 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:41:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25152; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:34:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803020034.QAA25152@implode.root.com> To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: abial@nask.pl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:21:23 PST." <199803020021.QAA01227@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:34:30 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> I need to know which PHY chip is being used; it should be close to the >> 82557 since it connects to it. >> > >I will open it later, but the manual says: Intel 82555 PHY. Hmmm...there must be a new version of the chip or something since the 82555 is already supported (type=7). -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 16:57:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07830 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:57:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07761 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:56:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199803020056.QAA07761@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA170190203; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:56:43 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: boot manager w/ freebsd To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:56:42 +1100 (EDT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803012253.OAA10127@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Mar 1, 98 02:53:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In some mail from Mike Smith, sie said: > > > > When there are three disks on the system, you can only boot from the > > > first (no option to goto the second or third disk is given). > > > > > > Is this fixable ? > > > > Yes. You need to burn a new BIOS for your machine and up the drive > > count from 2 to however many you want so that the BIOS will put the > > right %dl value (ie: 0x82, 0x83, ...). > > Uh, actually I think the problem is the Booteasy only checks the LSB of > the drive count value. If it's set, there's one drive, if it's clear, > there are two. It's been a long time since I looked at the code, but I > do seem to recall that with 4 drives you get two items on the menu > again. > > Either way, the booteasy code design is such that it's really only > suited for simple arrangements. For more complex systems, I have to > recommend either the OS/2 Boot Manager (if you have OS/2) or System > Commander. If you insist on freeware, then OS-BS may also do what you > want. In my experience, OS-BS doesn't work as well as Booteasy. Darren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 17:00:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08580 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:00:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08558 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:00:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22331; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd022287; Sun Mar 1 17:59:59 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA06455; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:59:57 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803020059.RAA06455@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help - make world fails To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:59:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803012350.PAA24569@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Mar 1, 98 03:50:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >locking should go to a veto-based interface. My arguments for this are: > > > >o Common code > > > >o Locks go to vnode instead of in core inode > > > >o locks off vnode helps with stacking if VOP_FINALVP is > > implemented and used. This is pretty much a win for > > union and agregate FS's *only* > > > >o NFS client locks need to be remembered locally so that > > they can be reasserted in case of a server crash. This > > is my way of saving the state. > > > >o NFS wire traffic is reduced, if the lock conflict is > > between clients on the same machine (faster fail). > > > >o Ability to teat-and-not-set for multiplexing FS's (NFS > > is a mux for local vs. remote locks, and unionfs is a > > mux for local vs. local locks). > > As I see it, except for the last one on the list, the rest of the above > are not arguments in favor of "veto-based" advisory locking since they can > all be acheived without that. Agreed... it's an architectural issue, and as you are architect, I don't presume to make your decisions for you. You'll note that I haven't bitched about the locking code not being committed, and I've defended the non-commit at every turn, just to be clear where the line is... This is why I was very careful to point out the issues, hopefully without bias, towards my particular implementation. The list I provided is a bit biased, as far as I'm concerned; I think that I can't work on a soloution identical to USL's because of my history as a USL employee, without exposing the project to undue (IMO) legal risk. The only argument I have (besides the last item) is that the implementation detail skirts the USL non-disclosure issues that I personally have for me to do the work. It's a weak argument, I know, but at least I'm willing... I don't see the code coming from another source. Some people have suggested the USL approach (ie: new system call); I'm afraid I can't do the work in that case because of the conflict between my contractual obligation. I'm charting a narrow course, here, between prior art and things which I can't reasonably disclose, even if we all agree that there's nothing brilliant or fundamentally new there, even the fact that they have been disclosed before in "The Magic Garden Explained". If someone else can implement the other implementation details, I'd be fine with that approach (I really don't care, so long as the problem is resolved so I can build upon the resolution). Personally, I can't work on an implementation where rpc.lockd maintains local state. Right now, I'm (apparently) your best bet as someone willing to wade into this crap. I'm sure I agree with you that I wish this weren't so... 8-|. SunOS is the reference implementation for NFS locking, so there are worse thing than being interface compatible with SunOS, AFAICT. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 17:20:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11573 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:20:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11465 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:19:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA16494; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd016490; Sun Mar 1 17:19:54 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id RAA02842; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:19:51 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199803020119.RAA02842@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-Reply-To: <199803020034.QAA25152@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Mar 1, 98 04:34:30 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:19:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: ulf@Alameda.net, abial@nask.pl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> I need to know which PHY chip is being used; it should be close to the > >> 82557 since it connects to it. > >> > > > >I will open it later, but the manual says: Intel 82555 PHY. > > Hmmm...there must be a new version of the chip or something since the > 82555 is already supported (type=7). > > -DG > Numbers on the chip are S82555 and L736EB68. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 19:18:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24793 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:18:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24499 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:15:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA03608; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:15:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:15:20 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Timmons To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel DK440LX motherboard with EtherExpress Pro/100B on board In-Reply-To: <199803011841.KAA17737@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Besides this, how do you like the board? I understand that it has the "dreaded phoenix bios" and I saw some folks on the -SMP list recommending against it for that reason. -Chris On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > Hi. > > I bought an Intel DK440LX motherboard (Dual PII, Adaptec AIC-7895, Crystal > sound card and EtherExpress Pro/100B onboard). The fxp driver seems to > have a little problem: > > fxp0: rev 0x02 int a irq 11 on pci0.3.0 > fxp0: Ethernet address 00:a0:c9:61:68:05 > fxp0: warning: unsupported PHY, type = 11, addr = 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 19:30:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA28136 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:30:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28058 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:30:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id FAA23738; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:30:02 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <19980302053001.29276@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:30:01 +0200 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ports for X11 stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Re: earlier discussion of X11 ports ought to be in /usr/local/X11R6 and not /usr/X11R6. It's clear that for ports that use imake, it's a fundamental imake (or XFree86) problem and should be solved on that level. However, there're still many programs that use configure, custom makefiles, whatever and don't *have* to be installed in /usr/X11R6. If I want to place those in /usr/local/X11R6 cleanly, I'm stuck: currently PREFIX= USE_X11 ? /usr/X11R6 : /usr/local/, so to speak, and both locations are unsuitable. Certainly one can hack around, but shouldn't there be another option in bsd.port.mk? Something like USE_X11_LOCALLY? -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 19:35:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29266 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:35:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29096; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:34:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA18850; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24660; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:57:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id WAA03710; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:39:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:39:27 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199803020339.WAA03710@lakes.dignus.com> To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, rivers@dignus.com, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: The 'dave rivers' memorial panic. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Dyson said: > > Terry Lambert said: > > > > We thought it was a bug in fsck and in the CG code. > > > > It turned out to be a longer-than-functional IDE cable. > > > > Try using a shorter IDE cable. > > > Slightly off subject: > > Even though Ultra-DMA/33 doesn't have higher clockrates than > 16MHz EIDE (Mode 4), it seems that the Promise controller and > WD drives DO NOT like out-of-spec IDE cables when running > Ultra-DMA/33. (Ultra-DMA uses both edges of the clock, so > there can be more transitions than EIDE, and the spectrum > will be higher in freq, also with more sensitivity to clock > skew, due to timing constraints.) > Umm... I don't know anything about this - but just a reminder; my "memorial" panic occurs with SCSI devices.... (but, I do have a reproduction on IDE as well.) Julian had mentioned he'd seen reproductions on different devices - but I didn't see the particulars. Or, are you guys discussing something else? - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 21:13:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10278 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:13:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from myth.links.ru (myth.relcom.ru [193.125.152.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10271; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:13:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gam@myth.links.ru) Received: (from gam@localhost) by myth.links.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17701; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:19:25 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from gam) From: Alexander Gnativ Message-Id: <199803020519.IAA17701@myth.links.ru> Subject: Re: ISA_PNP for FreeBSD To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:19:25 +0300 (MSK) Cc: smpatel@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980228191848.30606@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from "John-Mark Gurney" at "Feb 28, 98 07:18:48 pm" Reply-To: Alexander Gnativ Phone: +7 (095) 972-7546 (Zarya) Organization: Relcom Corp. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to John-Mark Gurney who wrote: > Alexander Gnativ scribbled this message on Feb 28: > > I am installing subj. for my FreeBSD 2.2.5 > > I want to configure my sound card (sb0) and have done all > > from README file. But when I begin to compile the new kernel, > > process stops with such diagnostic: > > > > ../../i386/isa/pnp.c: At top level: > > ../../i386/isa/pnp.c:325: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype > > *** Error code 1 > > > > Stop. > > well... that isn't the real error... that's just a warning... the real > error is earlier... > > > In the string 325 I found function pnp_configure() > > Please, tell me what I must to do in such case. > > add a void in the param list... Unfortunately, it didn't help. :-(( > > -- > John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 > Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 > > Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD > Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for > -- Best regards, Alexander Gnativ. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 21:34:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA13389 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:34:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA13326; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:33:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id FAA19943; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:01:23 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199803020401.FAA19943@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: ISA_PNP for FreeBSD To: gam@links.ru Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:01:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu, smpatel@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803020519.IAA17701@myth.links.ru> from "Alexander Gnativ" at Mar 2, 98 08:19:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Alexander Gnativ scribbled this message on Feb 28: > > > I am installing subj. for my FreeBSD 2.2.5 > > > I want to configure my sound card (sb0) and have done all just to be sure, did you install the old Sujal's code named ISA_PNP, or the new pnp code that is also in -stable and -current ? You should definitely use the latter if you don't already. > > > ../../i386/isa/pnp.c: At top level: > > > ../../i386/isa/pnp.c:325: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype > > > *** Error code 1 ... > > well... that isn't the real error... that's just a warning... the real > > error is earlier... ... > > > In the string 325 I found function pnp_configure() > > > Please, tell me what I must to do in such case. > > > > add a void in the param list... > > Unfortunately, it didn't help. :-(( as John Mark said, you have to see what is the real error and fix that one :) . the warning is not the problem. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 21:46:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14442 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:46:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14429; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:46:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04573; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:45:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199803020545.AAA04573@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: The 'dave rivers' memorial panic. In-Reply-To: <199803020339.WAA03710@lakes.dignus.com> from Thomas David Rivers at "Mar 1, 98 10:39:27 pm" To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:45:10 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, rivers@dignus.com, tlambert@primenet.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thomas David Rivers said: > > John Dyson said: > > > > Terry Lambert said: > > > > > > We thought it was a bug in fsck and in the CG code. > > > > > > It turned out to be a longer-than-functional IDE cable. > > > > > > Try using a shorter IDE cable. > > > > > Slightly off subject: > > > > Even though Ultra-DMA/33 doesn't have higher clockrates than > > 16MHz EIDE (Mode 4), it seems that the Promise controller and > > WD drives DO NOT like out-of-spec IDE cables when running > > Ultra-DMA/33. (Ultra-DMA uses both edges of the clock, so > > there can be more transitions than EIDE, and the spectrum > > will be higher in freq, also with more sensitivity to clock > > skew, due to timing constraints.) > > > > Umm... I don't know anything about this - but just a reminder; > my "memorial" panic occurs with SCSI devices.... (but, I do have > a reproduction on IDE as well.) Julian had mentioned he'd seen > reproductions on different devices - but I didn't see the particulars. > > Or, are you guys discussing something else? > Yes (re: my slightly off subject note!!!) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 22:02:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16366 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:02:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (d182-89.uoregon.edu [128.223.182.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16302 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:02:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01976; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:01:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980301220157.21804@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:01:57 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Alexander Gnativ Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISA_PNP for FreeBSD References: <19980228191848.30606@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199803020519.IAA17701@myth.links.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199803020519.IAA17701@myth.links.ru>; from Alexander Gnativ on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 08:19:25AM +0300 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Gnativ scribbled this message on Mar 2: > In reply to John-Mark Gurney who wrote: > > Alexander Gnativ scribbled this message on Feb 28: > > > I am installing subj. for my FreeBSD 2.2.5 > > > I want to configure my sound card (sb0) and have done all > > > from README file. But when I begin to compile the new kernel, > > > process stops with such diagnostic: > > > > > > ../../i386/isa/pnp.c: At top level: > > > ../../i386/isa/pnp.c:325: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype > > > *** Error code 1 > > > > > > Stop. > > > > well... that isn't the real error... that's just a warning... the real > > error is earlier... please read the above and send me the lines from the last ^{g,}cc line to end of compile... > > > In the string 325 I found function pnp_configure() > > > Please, tell me what I must to do in such case. > > > > add a void in the param list... > > Unfortunately, it didn't help. :-(( it did get rid of the message that you sent to use didn't it?? it's all the help I could give you with the information that you gave... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 23:08:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22506 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:08:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA22498 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:08:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199803020708.XAA22498@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA243512533; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:08:54 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: boot manager w/ freebsd To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:08:53 +1100 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803012253.OAA10127@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Mar 1, 98 02:53:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Uh, actually I think the problem is the Booteasy only checks the LSB of > the drive count value. If it's set, there's one drive, if it's clear, > there are two. It's been a long time since I looked at the code, but I > do seem to recall that with 4 drives you get two items on the menu > again. > > Either way, the booteasy code design is such that it's really only > suited for simple arrangements. For more complex systems, I have to > recommend either the OS/2 Boot Manager (if you have OS/2) or System > Commander. If you insist on freeware, then OS-BS may also do what you > want. Hmmm, version 1.8 of booteasy at least lets you boot off two if > 2 are present. guess Ill have to investigate it some more. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 23:22:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24157 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050ndd.san.rr.com (root@dt050ndd.san.rr.com [204.210.31.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24136 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (dougdougdougdoug@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050ndd.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05685; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:21:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <34FA5E08.611585A4@san.rr.com> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 23:21:44 -0800 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE-0228 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anatoly Vorobey CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff References: <19980302053001.29276@techunix.technion.ac.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > > Re: earlier discussion of X11 ports ought to be in /usr/local/X11R6 > and not /usr/X11R6. I'd like to second this. It is a small thing, but for the sake of consistency as well as good design I'd like to see it changed. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 23:31:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25276 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.giovannelli.it (www.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25257 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:31:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from giovannelli.it (modem00.masternet.it [194.184.65.254]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00345; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:35:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34FA60E3.F445EC4B@giovannelli.it> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:33:55 +0100 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe McGuckin CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvsup & make 'world' References: <199803010224.SAA27984@monk.via.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joe McGuckin wrote: > > I used cvsup for the first time today. The base system is 2.2.5-RELEASE. > I used the default 'standard-supfile' in /usr/src/share/examples/cvsup. > > I believe this should update my source tree to 2.2.5-current - right ? Not quite right, I think you are updating to 3.0-current The 2.2.5-current doesn't exist , the right name is 2.2.5-STABLE and you have to use the stable-supfile instead... > I cd'd to /usr/src and performed a 'make buildworld'. I got a compile > error some way into the process. > > Is it very unusual for the -current tree to not build ? 3.0-current build fine, you have only mixed too much things .. -- Regards... Gianmarco "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 23:48:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28030 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:48:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28022 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:48:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA00356; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:47:45 -0800 (PST) To: Studded cc: Anatoly Vorobey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Mar 1998 23:21:44 PST." <34FA5E08.611585A4@san.rr.com> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 23:47:45 -0800 Message-ID: <353.888824865@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'd like to second this. It is a small thing, but for the sake of > consistency as well as good design I'd like to see it changed. Actually, this would be far from consistent - it would confuse the piss out of folks who've become more than used to /usr/X11R6 as the location for X libraries and binaries over the last 3 years. Changing it at this juncture would only be a recipe for complete and utter chaos. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 23:52:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28801 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:52:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28781 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:52:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA00392; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:51:15 -0800 (PST) To: Darren Reed cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot manager w/ freebsd In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:08:53 +1100." <199803020708.XAA22498@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 23:51:15 -0800 Message-ID: <388.888825075@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmmm, version 1.8 of booteasy at least lets you boot off two if > 2 are > present. It's unlikely that we're using version 1.8 - our own "embedded" version of booteasy is ancient. phk - is it as easy as simply re-encoding the boot.bin file? Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 1 23:59:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29944 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:59:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29938 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:59:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00369 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:01:20 GMT (envelope-from kuku) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:01:20 GMT From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199803020801.IAA00369@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: g77 - status? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Could someone give me a short brief-in on the issues related with using g77 instead of f77 (f2c) under FreeBSD-2.2.5? Can g77 be installed out of the box from the package? I did and it seems so. Does it use libf2c.a or does it have it's own runtime library? Has there been a problem with g77 under FreeBSD-2.2.2 ? -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 00:48:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06307 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:48:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06254 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:47:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19387; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:47:51 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA06738; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:47:02 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980302094702.33670@follo.net> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:47:02 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" Cc: hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <34F43E86.4770@njcc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <34F43E86.4770@njcc.com>; from Ken Hansen on Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 10:53:42AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 10:53:42AM -0500, Ken Hansen wrote: > Ron G. Minnich wrote: > > > > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > > > Ken Hansen writes: > > > > Is it REALLY that hard to come up with a keyboard & monitor? > > > For a regular box, no. For a toaster, possibly. > > > > we have a 128-node cluster here at sarnoff. no keyboards, no monitors, no > > display cards. Needless to say, keyboard-less admin protocols look like a > > good idea from here :-) > > Granted, ther are special applications, but for a stand-alone, set & > forget > machine, I don't think my previous statement is TOO far off the mark > ("Is it REALLY that hard...") - but I suspect that a 128-node cluster is > (for now) a rare configuration... I'd suspect the keyboard/montitor-less configuration is much more important in the set of people that contribute to FreeBSD than in the average case. The question is if we want to lock out the people that _do_ contribute code. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 00:48:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06528 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:48:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06481 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:48:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10738; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:37:38 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA24892; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:56:45 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id JAA29850; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:47:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19980302094714.18899@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:47:14 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff References: <34FA5E08.611585A4@san.rr.com> <353.888824865@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <353.888824865@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 11:47:45PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Organization: PROSA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > Actually, this would be far from consistent - it would confuse the > piss out of folks who've become more than used to /usr/X11R6 as the > location for X libraries and binaries over the last 3 years. Changing > it at this juncture would only be a recipe for complete and utter > chaos. Agreed. Just a comment: /usr/X11R6 is a growing beastie. All X related things (app-defaults, libs, binaries, headers) get installed in it. Consequence: /usr/X11R6 easily grows above 100 Mbytes, and this is incompatible with the notion of a static, ro /usr. It's a problem during installation if you're going to unpack X: - either you make /usr 200 Mb or so (knowing you'll be doing dump+restore sooner than you'd want), - or you make it the 90 Mbytes it's happy with, and go to the emergency shell and _remember_ to make /usr/local/X11R6 and symlink. Am I alone ? "Now it'd be nice if"© a simple dialog box popped up during sysinstall saying, "hey, you chose to install X, you have less than N megabytes for /usr, but you have 3 Terabytes in /usr/local: [do you want to | you should ] create /usr/local/X11R6, and make a symlink in /usr ?" I might (*shudder*) even look at sysinstall's code (*tremble*) and see if I can do it myself, if there's interest. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- «Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?» - S. Kelly Bootle, ("MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 01:08:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09404 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09387 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:08:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA00493; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:52:57 -0800 (PST) To: Philippe Regnauld cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:47:14 +0100." <19980302094714.18899@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:52:57 -0800 Message-ID: <488.888828777@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "Now it'd be nice if"© a simple dialog box popped > up during sysinstall saying, "hey, you chose to install X, you have > less than N megabytes for /usr, but you have 3 Terabytes in > /usr/local: [do you want to | you should ] create /usr/local/X11R6, > and make a symlink in /usr ?" > > I might (*shudder*) even look at sysinstall's code (*tremble*) > and see if I can do it myself, if there's interest. Talk to Mike Smith - he's already (*shudder* :-) in this area of the code trying to figure out how to do proper sizing information for everything, not just the X bits, and implement proper "you're 30% done" progress bars. It sounds to me like what you want would fall out of this fairly easily. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 01:10:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10047 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from plugcom.ru (uucp@radiance.plugcom.ru [195.2.73.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA10008 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru) Received: from minas-tirith.pol.ru (uucp@localhost) by plugcom.ru (8.8.7/8.8.6) with UUCP id MAA13269 for freebsd.org!hackers; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:10:15 +0300 (MSK) Received: from minas-tirith.pol.ru (minas-tirith.pol.ru [127.0.0.1]) by minas-tirith.pol.ru (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01190 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:05:09 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru) Message-Id: <199803020905.MAA01190@minas-tirith.pol.ru> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: freebsd.org!hackers@minas-tirith.pol.ru Subject: Cluster? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:05:09 +0300 From: Alex Povolotsky Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG <19980302094702.33670@follo.net>Eivind Eklund writes: >> > we have a 128-node cluster here at sarnoff. no keyboards, no monitors, no Clusters on FreeBSD does exist? GREAT! Is it possible to get patches/whitepapers/etc. on it? Alex. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 01:10:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10122 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA10086 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:10:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09297; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:10:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803020910.BAA09297@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Eivind Eklund cc: khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 09:47:02 +0100." <19980302094702.33670@follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 01:10:20 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eivind@yes.no said: > I'd suspect the keyboard/montitor-less configuration is much more > important in the set of people that contribute to FreeBSD than in the > average case. The question is if we want to lock out the people that > _do_ contribute code. > Eivind. For a user friendly configuration tools we can forget about experts. Besides most of them are fully capable of deploying their own configuration tools. Well, at least I was able to for one of my contracts 8) We should start targetting newbies --- got a complaint from my ISP that he was starting to see people moving away from NT and asked about ease of FreeBSD . For evaluation purposes he has installed linux and FreeBSD. BTW: Now that the Java front is picking steam perhaps someone can start thinking about using Java for system or user configuration stuff. The latest version of the jdk can be run without X . Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 01:14:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11192 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (root@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11164 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:13:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bannai@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from bannai@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) id AAA00813; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:12:48 -0800 (PST) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199803020812.AAA00813@shell6.ba.best.com> Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-Reply-To: <19980301131921.45593@klemm.gtn.com> from Andreas Klemm at "Mar 1, 98 01:19:21 pm" To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com (Andreas Klemm) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:12:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: bannai@best.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Andreas Klemm: > On Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 04:13:12PM -0800, Vinay Bannai wrote: > > > > Yup. The ifnet device has a flag which indicates that it is capable of > > doing checksum in the hardware and you set this flag in the mbufs and pass > > it along. This is pretty usefule when computing checksumn in hardware for > > transmits too. > > > > I know of atleast two protocol stack implementations (popular too) that > > use these techniques... > > Which one ? > > Is it a secret ? ;-) > I don't if it is a secret. But if you must know, I do work for a relatvilely large super computer firm based in Minneosota but work from their Mountian View office. :-) Vinay -- Vinay Bannai E-mail: bannai@best.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 02:32:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19292 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:32:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA19287 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:32:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09520; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 01:44:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803020944.BAA09520@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Vinay Bannai cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com (Andreas Klemm), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Best" Fast Ethernet Card In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:12:48 PST." <199803020812.AAA00813@shell6.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 01:44:06 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sounds like SGI/Cray or Sun/Cray -- it gets so confusing now days 8) Cheers, Amancio > > > > I don't if it is a secret. But if you must know, I do work for a > relatvilely large super computer firm based in Minneosota but work from > their Mountian View office. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 02:56:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA21966 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:56:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA21960 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:56:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 76350.1227@compuserve.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) id FAA09043; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:55:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:54:54 -0500 From: Bruce Vandiver <76350.1227@compuserve.com> Subject: the Future Domain TMC-16XX To: Trushar Zaveri Cc: tech_help_drivers Message-ID: <199803020555_MC2-352C-B90@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA21961 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I picked up your email address from the newsgroups a little while ago >because I saw you were trying to get drivers for a bunch of Future Domain >SCSI cards you have. I have the TMC-1680-SVP in my old old ancient 486 >machine, but I have a bunch of old narrow SCSI disks that I want to use on >that machine (make it a storehouse kind of thing) >anyway, most of that is besides the point... have you gotten anywhere >with the leads you were given? I know a couple of people offered to help >you integrate the modified AHA-2920 driver back for support of the >TMC-18C30, and if you *did* get it to work (or if you didn't) could you >let me know? I've banged my head against the kernel a bit, but I'm no >programmer unfortunately, and I cannot get the kernel to compile if I try >to get the card support in. >looking forward to hear what you have to say about it. >Thanks in advance! Hi Trushar: I have had offers of help, but no action. It seems easy to give lip service to the subject, but action is another matter. Here are some of the comments I have received: (you may already have read this) >Hello Bruce. I've been a FreeBSD user for more or less 4 years now and am >interested in trying my hand at some kernel coding. I have been following >your posts in -hackers with a fair amount of interest, since I have a >Future Domain card that was donated to me by someone who upgraded and am >interested in putting this hardware to use. I think that incorporating >the driver into FreeBSD might be something good for me to gain some >experience. I have taken the driver that Bob Bishop mentioned and >integrated it into -current on my test machine and I have it talking to >some SCSI devices. I don't have much to test it on, since I have only IDE >HDDs and not many SCSI peripherals. Reading raw code + little experience >with device drivers + little experience at low level SCSI = a non-trivial >task. However, I'm willing to give it a try. - K.C. From: kfurge@worldnet.att.net >If you'd like, I'll be more than happy to send you the tutorial I threw >together on starting to write device drivers. Unfortunately, this is how >device drivers get written. Someone with the device, and interest to have >it supported (read: You) lays their hands on the programming documentation, >does much trial and error learning the driver interface, and then writes >the driver. From: "Brian J. McGovern" >You appear to be failing to appreciate that FreeBSD acquires >new drivers because people go out and develop them, and then >contribute them to the project. >There isn't a Driver Development Lab with lots of people and >money that's studiously ignoring your requests while playing >Doom and chugging Jolt and pizza. I wish there was; I'd be >begging for a job there myself. > >I would strongly suggest that you should study the Linux source that >you have, and the source for a similar ISA SCSI adapter driver, and >begin your own development. I do seem to recall someone mention that >they had documentation for the controller you are asking about on the >shelf; perhaps you should search the archives at www.freebsd.org for >a reference here too, as such documentation would be very useful. > >Please feel free to post questions regarding your development to the >list, as we do try to encourage new contributors whenever possible. >Regards, Mike. From: msmith@freebsd.org >There already is a driver, which only has not been imported >into the CVS tree, since it used source files spread out all >over the kernel tree. This was going to be resolved shortly >(as of December 1996 ;-). >I may be able to dig out the sources, and you will have to >stuff them into the correct directories and modify some of >the files used to configure the kernel. >But it may be better to ask *Joerg Wunsch* to make up his mind >how to import that driver into -current ... Regards, STefan. From: Stefan Esser * BTW - (joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de) or (j@uriah.heep.sax.de) >> Have a look at >> http://www.sbox.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rmike/freebsd/welcome.html which >> contains an 18c30 driver ported for the AHA2920. It also contains the >> original tmc18c30/ISA support which may well work with your cards. >>From: Mike Smith > >Well I never. If anyone out there is using this driver, can we have >some feedback? If it works and appears to be maintained, we ought to >incorporate it... From: Bob Bishop I am especially interested in the comment "If it works and appears to be maintained, we ought to incorporate it..." From Bob Bishop. Will anything come of all this? I really don't know. For now I'm using Linux. I remain hopefull, but I am pretty much in the same shape as you. If you get any good news, please copy me on it. Thanks in advance! Regards; Bruce Vandiver 76350.1227@compuserve.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 03:15:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA23568 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:15:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA23556 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA22326; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:15:54 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:15:53 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Amancio Hasty cc: Eivind Eklund , khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <199803020910.BAA09297@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I'd suspect the keyboard/montitor-less configuration is much more > > important in the set of people that contribute to FreeBSD than in the > > average case. The question is if we want to lock out the people that > > _do_ contribute code. > > > Eivind. > > For a user friendly configuration tools we can forget about experts. > Besides most of them are fully capable of deploying their own configuration > tools. Well, at least I was able to for one of my contracts 8) I disagree. We can produce "easy configuration" tools as much as we want, but we will have to re-do them every time, some change is done (in distributed version, or locally by an "expert" sysadmin), if those tools won't be extensible and suitable for complex tasks. Red Hat with its tcl-based configuration is just below the acceptable level (it has more or less configurable scripts and horribly inflexible interface, no networked reconfiguration in synchronized manner, no reasonable way to add new features, no general transactions mechanism, etc), and I think that we should do something above it if we don't want to be studied in schools as the point where unix/unixlike development degraded into the same amateur level, some other kinds of programmers are known for. Sun won't do it for us (NIS+ is the best it was capable of, even though it's the opposite approach), neither will others (nothing worth mentioning here, not even SGI except as an example of poor security design). > We should start targetting newbies -- got a complaint from my ISP > that he was starting to see people moving away from NT and asked > about ease of FreeBSD . For evaluation purposes he has installed > linux and FreeBSD. If the system is designed well, its default configuration can be very newbie-friendly, however others will be able to reconfigure and/or extend it. Limiting it to newbie level won't give us much. > BTW: Now that the Java front is picking steam perhaps someone can > start thinking about using Java for system or user configuration stuff. As long as it's limited to user-interface client. I see no excuse for making a system that can't configure its own startup scripts without java, or for branching of FreeBSD distribution into "newbie" and "expert" ones, based on this (yes, I'm the same Alex Belits, who was exaplining/defending here Linux's reasons for multiple distributions -- but they don't apply well in this case). > The latest version of the jdk can be run without X . With all GUI? What low-level interface will it use? -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 03:29:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24761 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24751 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04124 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:30:18 GMT Message-ID: <34FA97F9.7ACB4E7E@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:28:57 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: CVSup failing... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I've installed the cvsup packages, and tried to get it up and running. Sysinstall also installed the modula library (as a dependancy), but when I try running it, I get: ld.so failed: Can't find shared library "libXaw.so.6.1" I've tried finding this library file with locate, but it isn't there. Any pointers? Cheers, Dan _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 03:36:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA25571 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA25560 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:36:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10153; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:35:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803021135.DAA10153@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alex Belits cc: Eivind Eklund , khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 03:15:53 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 03:35:59 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't have many comments --- well okay at work we got a 20000 line system install thingy all written in shell try debugging that 8) Traditional scripting languages for unix, sh, csh , tcsh are a bit antiquated and downright awkward to work with. Java is extensible and its supporting structure is intensively being worked on . For design methodologies , there are excellent books such as Design Patterns : Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software Erich Gamma Richard Helm Ralph Johnson John Vlissides If you have not read it is an excellent book . Best Regards, Amancio > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > I'd suspect the keyboard/montitor-less configuration is much more > > > important in the set of people that contribute to FreeBSD than in the > > > average case. The question is if we want to lock out the people that > > > _do_ contribute code. > > > > > Eivind. > > > > For a user friendly configuration tools we can forget about experts. > > Besides most of them are fully capable of deploying their own configuration > > tools. Well, at least I was able to for one of my contracts 8) > > I disagree. We can produce "easy configuration" tools as much as we > want, but we will have to re-do them every time, some change is done (in > distributed version, or locally by an "expert" sysadmin), if those tools > won't be extensible and suitable for complex tasks. Red Hat with its > tcl-based configuration is just below the acceptable level (it has more or > less configurable scripts and horribly inflexible interface, no networked > reconfiguration in synchronized manner, no reasonable way to add new > features, no general transactions mechanism, etc), and I think that we > should do something above it if we don't want to be studied in schools as > the point where unix/unixlike development degraded into the same amateur > level, some other kinds of programmers are known for. Sun won't do it for > us (NIS+ is the best it was capable of, even though it's the opposite > approach), neither will others (nothing worth mentioning here, not even > SGI except as an example of poor security design). > > > We should start targetting newbies -- got a complaint from my ISP > > that he was starting to see people moving away from NT and asked > > about ease of FreeBSD . For evaluation purposes he has installed > > linux and FreeBSD. > > If the system is designed well, its default configuration can be very > newbie-friendly, however others will be able to reconfigure and/or extend > it. Limiting it to newbie level won't give us much. > > > BTW: Now that the Java front is picking steam perhaps someone can > > start thinking about using Java for system or user configuration stuff. > > As long as it's limited to user-interface client. I see no excuse for > making a system that can't configure its own startup scripts without java, > or for branching of FreeBSD distribution into "newbie" and "expert" > ones, based on this (yes, I'm the same Alex Belits, who was > exaplining/defending here Linux's reasons for multiple distributions -- > but they don't apply well in this case). > > > The latest version of the jdk can be run without X . > > With all GUI? What low-level interface will it use? > > -- > Alex > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 03:41:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA26331 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:41:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA26325 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:41:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from ash2.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.16.30] ([PZUWn2pbYCj9snGm32XUs5YaoXwxrJTt]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y9TaK-0001pr-00; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:40:40 +0000 Received: from njs3 by ash2.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0y9TZu-0002Or-00; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:40:14 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:40:14 +0000 In-Reply-To: freebsd@isvara.net "CVSup failing..." (Mar 2, 11:28am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd@isvara.net, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: CVSup failing... Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 2, 11:28am, freebsd@isvara.net wrote: } Subject: CVSup failing... > I've installed the cvsup packages, and tried to get it up and > running. > > I try running it, I get: > ld.so failed: Can't find shared library "libXaw.so.6.1" > > I've tried finding this library file with locate, but it isn't there. > Any pointers? libXaw is part of the X Window System, if you aren't using X then either install it or pull down the source for cvsup and see if you can build it without support for X. If you already have X installed run ldconfig /usr/X11R6/lib as root. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 04:00:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA28764 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:00:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA28758 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:00:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA22514; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:01:42 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:01:41 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Amancio Hasty cc: Eivind Eklund , khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <199803021135.DAA10153@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > I don't have many comments --- well okay at work we got a 20000 line > system install thingy all written in shell try debugging that 8) > > > Traditional scripting languages for unix, sh, csh , tcsh are > a bit antiquated and downright awkward to work with. > > Java is extensible and its supporting structure is intensively being > worked on . I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is still more flexible and efficient than java. [long-winged explanation about incompleteness and impurity of OOP in C++ and reasons for accepting it as tradeof for efficiency, better interface with OS and portability is omitted here] -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 04:08:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA01055 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:08:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA01048 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:08:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10350; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:08:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803021208.EAA10350@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alex Belits cc: Eivind Eklund , khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 04:01:41 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 04:08:33 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > I don't have many comments --- well okay at work we got a 20000 line > > system install thingy all written in shell try debugging that 8) > > > > > > Traditional scripting languages for unix, sh, csh , tcsh are > > a bit antiquated and downright awkward to work with. > > > > Java is extensible and its supporting structure is intensively being > > worked on . > > I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be > written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is > still more flexible and efficient than java. Yeap, I have to agree that C++ is significantly faster than Java for system configuration 8) BTW: you forgot who was going to write the nice X stuff for a C++ based program that is if we are still talking about a GUI tool . Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 04:13:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02108 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:13:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA02088 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:13:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA22587; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:14:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:14:12 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Amancio Hasty cc: Eivind Eklund , khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <199803021208.EAA10350@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be > > written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is > > still more flexible and efficient than java. > > Yeap, I have to agree that C++ is significantly faster than Java for system > configuration 8) > > BTW: you forgot who was going to write the nice X stuff for a C++ based program > that is if we are still talking about a GUI tool . If the content of "Subject" field still applies -- Netscape, Inc. plus someone who will fix their screwups with configuration handling. Or anyone else. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 04:18:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA02923 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:18:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (64I/CzPJHWpVe582gLJr8dcmQO00zUi6@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA02882 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:18:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak71.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.46.71] ([ePrZsb0r3IM5DFWkGdFrVQYUDFDBQUHK]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y9U9y-0002Bn-00; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:17:30 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak71.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y9U9Y-0007Ko-00; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:17:04 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:17:04 +0000 In-Reply-To: Amancio Hasty "Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool." (Mar 2, 4:08am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 2, 4:08am, Amancio Hasty wrote: } Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. > > > > I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be > > written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is > > still more flexible and efficient than java. > > Yeap, I have to agree that C++ is significantly faster than Java for system > configuration 8) I disagree, C++ may be faster than Java, but that difference is not significant when doing GUI-type system administration. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 04:24:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:24:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04100 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:24:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from witr@spooky.rwwa.com) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (localhost.rwwa.com [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29946; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 07:25:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from witr@spooky.rwwa.com) Message-Id: <199803021225.HAA29946@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Amancio Hasty cc: Alex Belits , Eivind Eklund , khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 03:35:59 PST." <199803021135.DAA10153@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 07:25:04 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hasty@rah.star-gate.com said: :- Traditional scripting languages for unix, sh, csh , tcsh are a bit :- antiquated and downright awkward to work with. :- Java is extensible and its supporting structure is intensively being :- worked on . But old isn't necessarily bad, and Java isn't a scripting language. And scripting launguages have a very valuable role in this problem domain. Also, for a view of where scrpting languages live in modern design methodologies, see http://www-dse.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Enp2/patterns/scripting/index.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 04:50:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07243 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:50:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07238 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:50:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA22797; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:51:58 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:51:56 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Niall Smart cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Niall Smart wrote: > > > I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be > > > written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is > > > still more flexible and efficient than java. > > > > Yeap, I have to agree that C++ is significantly faster than Java for system > > configuration 8) > > I disagree, C++ may be faster than Java, but that difference is not > significant when doing GUI-type system administration. On the client side -- maybe, but when I am remotely changing something on a system that already is in some kind of trouble (and possibly has a lot of resources used up), I will rather depend on something small, fast, and preferrably kept running, and sleeping most of time. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 05:02:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:02:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA09496 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:02:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10442; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 04:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803021222.EAA10442@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:17:04 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 04:22:24 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cool, you caught my smiley 8) Yes, I agree that there shouldn't be any performance difference between C++ and Java admin tool except when we are dealing with very large numbers of items;however, for a newbie or a single seat work station or a small ISP there shouldn't be any performance difference between java and c++ based tools. Amancio > On Mar 2, 4:08am, Amancio Hasty wrote: > } Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. > > > > > > I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be > > > written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is > > > still more flexible and efficient than java. > > > > Yeap, I have to agree that C++ is significantly faster than Java for system > > configuration 8) > > I disagree, C++ may be faster than Java, but that difference is not > significant when doing GUI-type system administration. > > > Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 05:08:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10480 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:08:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10458 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:08:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA10631; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:07:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803021307.FAA10631@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Alex Belits cc: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 04:51:56 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 05:07:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, all this is academic for "we ain't got no" application developers in this group . Cheers, Amancio > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Niall Smart wrote: > > > > > I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be > > > > written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is > > > > still more flexible and efficient than java. > > > > > > Yeap, I have to agree that C++ is significantly faster than Java for system > > > configuration 8) > > > > I disagree, C++ may be faster than Java, but that difference is not > > significant when doing GUI-type system administration. > > On the client side -- maybe, but when I am remotely changing something on > a system that already is in some kind of trouble (and possibly has a lot > of resources used up), I will rather depend on something small, fast, > and preferrably kept running, and sleeping most of time. > > -- > Alex > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 05:21:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA11933 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:21:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA11921 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:21:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA22936; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:22:28 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:22:27 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Amancio Hasty cc: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-Reply-To: <199803021307.FAA10631@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Well, all this is academic for "we ain't got no" application developers > in this group . Actually I'm trying to do something with the lists handling and transactions through HTTP, and I hope, either me or someone else will write an interface/framework that will allow route/replicate/process HTTP-based transactions over the network to implement "mass-update" and monitoring for the network (NIS-backward or SNMP-like administration protocol over HTTP). Nothing to speak of yet, except mentioned by me multiple times before my HTTP server with its API, suitable for transactions mechanism. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 05:50:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA15784 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:50:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA15769 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA03958; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:49:31 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <19980302154931.26325@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:49:31 +0200 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff References: <34FA5E08.611585A4@san.rr.com> <353.888824865@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <353.888824865@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 11:47:45PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You, Jordan K. Hubbard, were spotted writing this on Sun, Mar 01, 1998 at 11:47:45PM -0800: > > I'd like to second this. It is a small thing, but for the sake of > > consistency as well as good design I'd like to see it changed. > > Actually, this would be far from consistent - it would confuse the > piss out of folks who've become more than used to /usr/X11R6 as the > location for X libraries and binaries over the last 3 years. Changing > it at this juncture would only be a recipe for complete and utter > chaos. Then add a /etc/make.conf non-default flag to do this. It would decide whether USE_X11 means /usr/X11R6 or /usr/local/X11R6. Then you won't confuse anyone who's used to the mess that /usr/X11R6 is, and you add an option to do /usr/local/X11R6 cleanly for those who do that. This would be also useful for folks fiddling with X sources and rebuilding all or part of the tree often. It also helps progress towards a much useful setup with /usr/X11R6 being ro (currently probably achievable with lots of hairy symlinks). Currently, and historically, /usr/X11R6 is a mess. Doesn't mean it has to stay so forever. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 06:03:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18624 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:03:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA18616 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:03:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02599; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:59:48 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <34FABB52.719145FE@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 15:59:47 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: Alex Belits , Eivind Eklund , khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <199803021208.EAA10350@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty wrote: > ? On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > ? > ? ? I don't have many comments --- well okay at work we got a 20000 line > ? ? system install thingy all written in shell try debugging that 8) > ? ? ?granted thats one bad extreme? > ? ? > ? ? Traditional scripting languages for unix, sh, csh , tcsh are > ? ? a bit antiquated and downright awkward to work with. > ? ? > ? ? Java is extensible and its supporting structure is intensively being > ? ? worked on . > ? > ? I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be > ? written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is > ? still more flexible and efficient than java. > > Yeap, I have to agree that C++ is significantly faster than Java for system > configuration 8) > > BTW: you forgot who was going to write the nice X stuff for a C++ based program > that is if we are still talking about a GUI tool . > > Cheers, > Amancio > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message I want only to remember you, that set of C++ classes + GUI Tcl Tool + Tcl/C glue, which allow easy write web-based cgi exist now in alpha version. for more info, look at http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 06:35:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21898 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:35:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA21879 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199803021430.JAA15071@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-Reply-To: <199803012317.QAA04517@usr08.primenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > o NFS client locks need to be remembered locally so that > they can be reasserted in case of a server crash. This > is my way of saving the state. Isn't NFS stateless. Sonetimes I wonder what Sun was thinking trying implement a stateless design over a network. -- Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 08:08:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01868 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:08:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01825 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:08:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@cs.sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19527; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:08:53 GMT Message-ID: <034901bd45f4$be086580$0600a8c0@win95.local.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Niall Smart" , , "FreeBSD Hackers" Subject: Re: CVSup failing... Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:02:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i think there are statically compiled versions of cvsup and if you don't have X installed try the non-gui version http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/cvsup.html has links to some reduced forms and statically compiled binaries. -Alfred -----Original Message----- From: Niall Smart To: freebsd@isvara.net ; FreeBSD Hackers Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 3:24 AM Subject: Re: CVSup failing... >On Mar 2, 11:28am, freebsd@isvara.net wrote: >} Subject: CVSup failing... >> I've installed the cvsup packages, and tried to get it up and >> running. >> >> I try running it, I get: >> ld.so failed: Can't find shared library "libXaw.so.6.1" >> >> I've tried finding this library file with locate, but it isn't there. >> Any pointers? > >libXaw is part of the X Window System, if you aren't using X then either >install it or pull down the source for cvsup and see if you can build >it without support for X. If you already have X installed run ldconfig >/usr/X11R6/lib as root. > >Niall > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 08:20:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03027 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:20:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03016 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:20:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08433; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:20:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd008391; Mon Mar 2 09:20:18 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA11123; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:20:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803021620.JAA11123@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: help - make world fails To: jamie@itribe.net (Jamie Bowden) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:20:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803021430.JAA15071@gatekeeper.itribe.net> from "Jamie Bowden" at Mar 2, 98 09:35:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > o NFS client locks need to be remembered locally so that > > they can be reasserted in case of a server crash. This > > is my way of saving the state. > > Isn't NFS stateless. Sonetimes I wonder what Sun was thinking trying > implement a stateless design over a network. File sharing is, file locking isn't. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 08:42:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:42:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06212 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:42:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26991; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd026940; Mon Mar 2 09:42:17 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA12516; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:42:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199803021642.JAA12516@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. To: witr@rwwa.com (Robert Withrow) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:42:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us, eivind@yes.no, khansen@njcc.com, rminnich@Sarnoff.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199803021225.HAA29946@spooky.rwwa.com> from "Robert Withrow" at Mar 2, 98 07:25:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But old isn't necessarily bad, and Java isn't a scripting language. And > scripting launguages have a very valuable role in this problem domain. ??? You must not be running the same JAVA *interpreter* I run... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 08:52:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07224 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:52:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (root@FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.91.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07219 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:52:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from trojanhorse.pr.watson.org (trojanhorse.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.10]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA18208; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:51:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:52:57 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@trojanhorse.pr.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Jamie Bowden cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-Reply-To: <199803021430.JAA15071@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > o NFS client locks need to be remembered locally so that > > they can be reasserted in case of a server crash. This > > is my way of saving the state. > > Isn't NFS stateless. Sonetimes I wonder what Sun was thinking trying > implement a stateless design over a network. Sandberg, et. al, "Design and Implementation of the Sun Network Filesystem", ~1985? "The NFS uses a stateless protocol. The parameters to each procedure call contain all of the information necessary to complete the call, and the server does not keep track of any past requests. This makes crash recovery very easy; when a server crashes, the client resends NFS requests until a response is received, and the server does no crash recovery at all..." "...Using a stateless protocol allows us to avoid complex crash recovery and simplifies the protocol... In fact the client can not tell the difference between a server that has crashed and recovered, and a server that is slow." This said, of course, my clients still crash when the server goes down and something happens on the client (i.e., a call to mount, df, quota, or something :). The problem with stateless is, of course, that not all concepts associated with file system access are representable in a stateless way -- such as locking. Coda, for example, retains a lot of state with regards to cache information on both client and server side. The client retains the file (:)), and the server forms a callback so that it can notify the client on a change. Coda does not have a concept of locking, though, as it was determined (:O) that most of the file activity of interest involved sequential one-time read followed by sequential one-time write, no shared access, etc. This is true in the general case, but resoundingly not true for the specific cases where people try to use locking :). I'd love to see someone write a simple lock manager for Coda to allow exclusive advisory locking support (posix-style) based on some kind of distributed quorum database or something. Robert N Watson Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 10:01:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15901 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:01:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15895 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:01:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@vnode.vmunix.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29017; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:11:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mark) Message-ID: <19980302131116.16465@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:11:16 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Amancio Hasty , Alex Belits Cc: Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. References: <199803021307.FAA10631@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199803021307.FAA10631@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 05:07:31AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 05:07:31AM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Well, all this is academic for "we ain't got no" application developers > in this group . :-) As it turns out, myself and 3 others will be attempting a FreeBSD GUI admin system (client/server) over the summer for a course credit. Right now, the initial design is leaning towards using a C++ server and a Java client talking to it over an established protocol. Likely going to be using LDAP for distribution, etc, as Terry suggested in a much earlier post. So, wait til summer and then we'll see what happens. :-) With my project, and the 2 others that are going on right now (HTTP based, and the Tcl/Tk one) by fall I suspect there will be some rather neat administration tools for FreeBSD. Yeah! -Mark > > > Cheers, > Amancio > > > > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Niall Smart wrote: > > > > > > > I never said that anything that configures system remotely should be > > > > > written in shell. Perl is adequate, but I rather prefer C++, which is > > > > > still more flexible and efficient than java. > > > > > > > > Yeap, I have to agree that C++ is significantly faster than Java for system > > > > configuration 8) > > > > > > I disagree, C++ may be faster than Java, but that difference is not > > > significant when doing GUI-type system administration. > > > > On the client side -- maybe, but when I am remotely changing something on > > a system that already is in some kind of trouble (and possibly has a lot > > of resources used up), I will rather depend on something small, fast, > > and preferrably kept running, and sleeping most of time. > > > > -- > > Alex > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The problem is how do you build tools that understand your programs at a deeper semantic level." - James Gosling To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 10:38:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18881 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:38:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18872 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:38:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11939; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:37:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199803021837.KAA11939@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mark Mayo cc: Alex Belits , Niall Smart , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 13:11:16 EST." <19980302131116.16465@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 10:37:12 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Most Cool! If you haven't already check out ACE which should be easier to deal with FreeBSD upcoming elf support. Good Luck! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 10:54:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21826 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:54:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from heron.doc.ic.ac.uk (65z1DJLrMSossLiZcsQVrsOCrwZQ1c8g@heron.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.2.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21816 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:54:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk) Received: from oak75.doc.ic.ac.uk [146.169.16.20] ([4kBefdMkoIOnJo9VfpJstS/emfECHkfB]) by heron.doc.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y9aM6-0005BP-00; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:54:26 +0000 Received: from njs3 by oak75.doc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0y9aLf-0003rc-00; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:53:59 +0000 From: njs3@doc.ic.ac.uk (Niall Smart) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:53:58 +0000 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool." (Mar 2, 4:42pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mar 2, 4:42pm, Terry Lambert wrote: } Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. > > But old isn't necessarily bad, and Java isn't a scripting language. And > > scripting launguages have a very valuable role in this problem domain. > > You must not be running the same JAVA *interpreter* I run... Since when has the manner in which a program is "executed" decided if it is a scripting langauge? C is translated into assembler which is interpreted by the hardware in my Intel processor, does that make C or assembler scripting langauges? No. What if I use the Bochs interpreter? Still no. You wouldn't make a distinction between imperative, functional and logic programming languages based on their execution mode, but rather in their approach to expressing relationships and algorithms, it is the same with scripting languages. Niall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 11:01:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22816 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:01:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22802 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:01:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01759; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd001757; Mon Mar 2 10:53:41 1998 Message-ID: <34FAFF3B.15FB7483@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 10:49:31 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? References: <199802280214.SAA00165@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG M > Whoops. OK, are we sure that "bp" points to the same type in both > cases? And more importantly, that bp->b_vp is expected to be the same > type? (Yes, this is *really* clutching at straws). There's not much > else short of a GDB bug that I can think of that would cause this. > many interrupts are still running.. the clock is still ticking.. I've seen a machine in DDB respond to pings. how are you allocating the new buffer? it looks like it got BZERO'd between the two.. did the malloc actually succeed? etc.etc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 11:01:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:01:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22937 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:01:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01819; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd001814; Mon Mar 2 10:55:18 1998 Message-ID: <34FAFF9C.59E2B600@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 10:51:08 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: Mike Smith , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? References: <19980228123253.24049@freebie.lemis.com> <199802280214.SAA00165@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980228124844.00033@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 18:14:02 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >> On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:56:46 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >>> Yes, I noticed. But rewriting the bp on the fly is not uncommon; quite > >>> a few device drivers do it, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't done > >>> elsewhere rather than cloning the original. > >> > >> Sure, all sorts of things modify the buffer header. But you're still > >> missing the point: the processor is stopped here, it's in the > >> debugger. No instructions were executed between the two views. You > >> might just as well take a look at a dump. Since when does the content > >> of memory differ depending on where you look at it from? > > > > Whoops. OK, are we sure that "bp" points to the same type in both > > cases? > > Not any more :-) Somebody else replied first. > > > And more importantly, that bp->b_vp is expected to be the same type? > > Yes, it was. > > > (Yes, this is *really* clutching at straws). There's not much else > > short of a GDB bug that I can think of that would cause this. > > Thanks. I should have seen this myself, but sometimes you end up > looking in the wrong place. > > Greg > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Ah struct vnode changed recently... didi you do a 'make depend' ? bet it didn't recompile some source... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 11:22:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26335 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:22:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26324 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:22:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Mon Mar 2 14:17 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id OAA09457 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:21:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:23:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: tlambert@primenet.com Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, grog@lemis.com, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: SCSI Bus redundancy... Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:23:50 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Terry Lambert[SMTP:tlambert@primenet.com] > > > > > I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. > DPT > > > > supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. > > > > > > How can that work? > > > > Something like > > - read N RAID blocks from K disks > > - compute new checksum for K+1 disks and write as less number > > of RAID blocks but each one of bigger size (K+1/K times) > > - add empty blocks at the end of RAID in the added space > > You would have to remember to grab the blocks to be relocated with > the same O(n) randomness as their allocation. 8-). > Huh ? Probably I've missed something about RAIDs. I've thought that, for example, RAID block 0 consists of blocks 0 of all the physical disks. And so on. And I've thought that RAID itself does not allocate any blocks, the upper level like filesystem or volume manager does it, RAID just makes chechsuming. Am I wrong again ? -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 11:40:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28466 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:40:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28411 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:40:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13270; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:37:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803021937.LAA13270@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Philippe Regnauld , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 00:52:57 PST." <488.888828777@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:37:11 -0800 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA28429 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > "Now it'd be nice if"© a simple dialog box popped > > up during sysinstall saying, "hey, you chose to install X, you have > > less than N megabytes for /usr, but you have 3 Terabytes in > > /usr/local: [do you want to | you should ] create /usr/local/X11R6, > > and make a symlink in /usr ?" > > > > I might (*shudder*) even look at sysinstall's code (*tremble*) > > and see if I can do it myself, if there's interest. > > Talk to Mike Smith - he's already (*shudder* :-) in this area of the > code trying to figure out how to do proper sizing information for > everything, not just the X bits, and implement proper "you're 30% > done" progress bars. It sounds to me like what you want would fall > out of this fairly easily. The "newbie" install will actually get around that by taking the easy-but-bad way out and not assuming that you want to do anything fancy with your disk layout. I expect to wear a lot of flak about this from experienced users that would never use a "newbie" install, but I also hope to reduce the number of complaints from people who don't have enough space in /tmp or /var. For more advanced users, or those wanting a more traditional layout, the intention is to complain about space problems *before* starting the installation. A question - would it be desirable for X to be installed, by default, somewhere *else*, and just symlinked into /usr? Should it go in /usr/local, so that an experienced admin can assign a separate filesystem for this? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 11:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29867 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:53:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29854 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:52:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) id LAA26193; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:52:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:52:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803021952.LAA26193@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> To: mike@smith.net.au CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199803021937.LAA13270@dingo.cdrom.com> (message from Mike Smith on Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:37:11 -0800) Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * A question - would it be desirable for X to be installed, by default, * somewhere *else*, and just symlinked into /usr? Should it go in * /usr/local, so that an experienced admin can assign a separate * filesystem for this? Yes. Actually, if you can do something like "if /usr/local is a separate filesystem from /usr or a symlink to a directory in a separate filesystem from /usr, then make /usr/X11R6 a symlink into /usr/local/X11R6", that will be great, but that's probably asking too much. :) Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 12:17:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02567 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:17:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ext1.ccas.ru (ext1.ccas.ru [193.233.208.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02543 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:16:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Andrey.Lopatenko@dials.ccas.ru) Received: from www.dials.ccas.ru (www.dials.ccas.ru [193.233.210.130]) by ext1.ccas.ru (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22362 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:16:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from [193.233.210.147] by www.dials.ccas.ru (NTMail 3.03.0014/7.aabg) with ESMTP id ta051473 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:16:13 +0300 Message-ID: <002e01bd4617$bad14170$93d2e9c1@base.dials.ccas.ru> From: "Andrey Lopatenko" To: Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:13:47 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 13:00:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10562 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:00:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10557 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:00:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13598; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:58:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803022058.MAA13598@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Christoph Kukulies cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: g77 - status? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 08:01:20 GMT." <199803020801.IAA00369@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:58:17 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Could someone give me a short brief-in on the issues related with > using g77 instead of f77 (f2c) under FreeBSD-2.2.5? Not much different, really. You call 'g77' rather than 'f77' to compile. > Can g77 be installed out of the box from the package? I did and it > seems so. Yup. > Does it use libf2c.a or does it have it's own runtime library? It still uses libf2c. > Has there been a problem with g77 under FreeBSD-2.2.2 ? We didn't have any. The resultant code seems to perform fairly similarly to that produced by f2c, but the error messages are generally better. There are some extra F90 language features that none of our users touched, so I can't speak for them. I would certainly recommend it just for the improved error reporting, and I suspect that the non-improvements in performance probably had more to do with the outrageously bogus code that we were feeding it than any shortcomings in the compiler itself. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 13:42:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20127 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:42:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20110 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:42:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08730; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:12:18 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA12988; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:12:18 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980303081217.61608@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:12:17 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Julian Elischer Cc: Mike Smith , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Kernel debugging: what's going on here? References: <19980228123253.24049@freebie.lemis.com> <199802280214.SAA00165@dingo.cdrom.com> <19980228124844.00033@freebie.lemis.com> <34FAFF9C.59E2B600@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34FAFF9C.59E2B600@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 10:51:08AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 10:51:08 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 18:14:02 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>>> On Fri, 27 February 1998 at 17:56:46 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >>>>> Yes, I noticed. But rewriting the bp on the fly is not uncommon; quite >>>>> a few device drivers do it, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't done >>>>> elsewhere rather than cloning the original. >>>> >>>> Sure, all sorts of things modify the buffer header. But you're still >>>> missing the point: the processor is stopped here, it's in the >>>> debugger. No instructions were executed between the two views. You >>>> might just as well take a look at a dump. Since when does the content >>>> of memory differ depending on where you look at it from? >>> >>> Whoops. OK, are we sure that "bp" points to the same type in both >>> cases? >> >> Not any more :-) Somebody else replied first. >> >>> And more importantly, that bp->b_vp is expected to be the same type? >> >> Yes, it was. >> >>> (Yes, this is *really* clutching at straws). There's not much else >>> short of a GDB bug that I can think of that would cause this. >> >> Thanks. I should have seen this myself, but sometimes you end up >> looking in the wrong place. > > Ah struct vnode changed recently... Right. > didi you do a 'make depend' ? > > bet it didn't recompile some source... Worse. I found the @ directory pointing into the wrong tree. Logical, once you uknow where to look, but I was really beginning to suspect gdb. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 13:44:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20465 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:44:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20421 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:44:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA02408; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:42:16 -0800 (PST) To: Alex Belits cc: Amancio Hasty , Eivind Eklund , khansen@njcc.com, "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers Subject: Re: A web-based FreeBSD configuration tool. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 04:01:41 PST." Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 13:42:16 -0800 Message-ID: <2404.888874936@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I fail to see how ANY of this discussion brings us any closer to having the end product. We can discuss the relative merits of every programming language under the sun for the next ten years, but it won't get one line of code written. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 13:44:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20691 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:44:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pefstud.uniag.sk (pefstud.uniag.sk [193.87.98.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20468 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:44:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kostal@pefstud.uniag.sk) Received: from localhost (kostal@localhost) by pefstud.uniag.sk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA01507 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:39:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from kostal@pefstud.uniag.sk) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:39:38 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Kostal To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: users limits Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello ! I would be very happy if someone could help me with this: There is for example user paul and I want to restrict him to use just one copy of ftp after 16.00 and irc after 18.00 and during weekends. (This is just example, real limitations would be more complex) How to do that ? How can I control number of processes ran by users ? I want to set limits for all users of course. (300+) Is there some software for that or have I to write it myself ? Thanks for your answers. Ladislav Kostal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 13:47:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21600 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA21531 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA02453; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:45:56 -0800 (PST) To: Anatoly Vorobey cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 15:49:31 +0200." <19980302154931.26325@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 13:45:55 -0800 Message-ID: <2449.888875155@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Then add a /etc/make.conf non-default flag to do this. It would decide > whether USE_X11 means /usr/X11R6 or /usr/local/X11R6. Then you won't Why not simply redefine X11BASE then if that's what you want? It already exists.. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 13:50:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA22895 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:50:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22759 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:50:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) id NAA26547; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:49:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:49:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803022149.NAA26547@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> To: tarkhil@minas-tirith.pol.ru CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199803020905.MAA01190@minas-tirith.pol.ru> (message from Alex Povolotsky on Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:05:09 +0300) Subject: Re: Cluster? From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Clusters on FreeBSD does exist? GREAT! * * Is it possible to get patches/whitepapers/etc. on it? We have a small one here too (only 20 machines). See http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/Td/ for details. Satoshi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 14:17:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29190 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:17:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29135 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:17:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08840; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:46:16 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA13247; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:46:09 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980303084608.56831@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:46:08 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com, tlambert@primenet.com Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from sbabkin@dcn.att.com on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 02:23:50PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 14:23:50 -0500, sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: >> ---------- >> From: Terry Lambert[SMTP:tlambert@primenet.com] >> >>>>> I think Julian's SLICE code has something in that direction. >> DPT >>>>> supports INCREASING the size of a RAID-5 array by adding drives. >>>> >>>> How can that work? >>> >>> Something like >>> - read N RAID blocks from K disks >>> - compute new checksum for K+1 disks and write as less number >>> of RAID blocks but each one of bigger size (K+1/K times) >>> - add empty blocks at the end of RAID in the added space >> >> You would have to remember to grab the blocks to be relocated with >> the same O(n) randomness as their allocation. 8-). >> > Huh ? Probably I've missed something about RAIDs. I've thought > that, for example, RAID block 0 consists of blocks 0 of all > the physical disks. And so on. And I've thought that RAID itself > does not allocate any blocks, the upper level like filesystem or > volume manager does it, RAID just makes chechsuming. Am I wrong again ? That's not the point. OK, we were talking about RAID 5 here, which also has parity blocks, but the point is that if you add another disk, you're effectively adding another block every n blocks in the file system address space. It requires some non-trivial data movement to rearrange all the data (more specifically, except for the first n (n = old number of drives) blocks, you must move *everything*, and you must recalculate parity for every stripe. My question ("How can that work?") was based on the misassumption that this would be too much work to be justifiable. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 14:26:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00641 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:26:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00633 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:26:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA02770; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:25:10 -0800 (PST) To: Robert Watson cc: Jamie Bowden , Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: help - make world fails In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:52:57 EST." Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:25:10 -0800 Message-ID: <2766.888877510@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > something :). The problem with stateless is, of course, that not all > concepts associated with file system access are representable in a > stateless way -- such as locking. Coda, for example, retains a lot of Or device special files... Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 14:33:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02281 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw2.att.com [192.128.52.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA02219 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:32:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw2.att.com; Mon Mar 2 17:28 EST 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com (dcn71.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.112]) by caig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id RAA25013 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:35:05 -0500 Message-ID: To: grog@lemis.com Cc: shimon@simon-shapiro.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, jdn@acp.qiv.com, blkirk@float.eli.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: SCSI Bus redundancy... Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:35:02 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ---------- > From: Greg Lehey[SMTP:grog@lemis.com] > > My question ("How can that work?") was based on the misassumption that > this would be too much work to be justifiable. > It's still a lot less work than put everything to tape, drop current filesystems, drop current logical volumes, drop RAID group, create new RAID group, create new logical volumes, create new filesystems, restore everything from tape :-) -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 14:35:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03190 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:35:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03135 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:35:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08864; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:05:27 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA13408; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:05:26 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980303090526.18425@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:05:26 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: SCSI Bus redundancy... References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from sbabkin@dcn.att.com on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 05:35:02PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 17:35:02 -0500, sbabkin@dcn.att.com wrote: >> ---------- >> From: Greg Lehey[SMTP:grog@lemis.com] >> >> My question ("How can that work?") was based on the misassumption that >> this would be too much work to be justifiable. > > It's still a lot less work than put everything to tape, drop current > filesystems, drop current logical volumes, drop RAID group, create > new RAID group, create new logical volumes, create new filesystems, > restore everything from tape :-) Exactly. That's why my question was based on a misassumption. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 14:47:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05151 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:47:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05140 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:47:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA02896; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:46:17 -0800 (PST) To: Mike Smith cc: Philippe Regnauld , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:37:11 PST." <199803021937.LAA13270@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:46:16 -0800 Message-ID: <2892.888878776@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A question - would it be desirable for X to be installed, by default, > somewhere *else*, and just symlinked into /usr? Should it go in = > /usr/local, so that an experienced admin can assign a separate = > filesystem for this? I don't think that's such a good idea for now - enough will be changing with 2.2.6 that we want to keep POLA as intact as possible. Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 2 14:56:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07735 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:56:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from techunix.technion.ac.il (mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il [132.68.1.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07707 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:56:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mellon@techunix.technion.ac.il) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by techunix.technion.ac.il (8.8.7/8.8.5) id AAA22996; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:55:32 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <19980303005531.07975@techunix.technion.ac.il> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:55:31 +0200 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ports for X11 stuff References: <19980302154931.26325@techunix.technion.ac.il> <2449.888875155@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <2449.888875155@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 01:45:55PM -0800 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You, Jordan K. Hubbard, were spotted writing this on Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 01:45:55PM -0800: > > Then add a /etc/make.conf non-default flag to do this. It would decide > > whether USE_X11 means /usr/X11R6 or /usr/local/X11R6. Then you won't > > Why not simply redefine X11BASE then if that's what you want? It > already exists.. For at least two reasons: 1. It's a kludge, and that's definitely not what I want. /usr/local/X11R6 is _not_, logically, a X11BASE. A port may reasonably expect to find standard header files at $X11BASE/include, etc. 2. As one of consequences of it being a kludge, during 'make install' with such modified X11BASE, mtree will mirror /etc/mtree/BSD.x11.dist dir structure under /usr/local/X11R6 - a sight neither happy nor useful. One can define NO_MTREE, further kludging things up, of course... In a clean solution, you would either add an mtree file for /usr/local/X11R6, or invoke mtree on BSD.local.dist, or not invoke mtree, or do something else I'm not bright enough for... ;) I hope that sooner or later (sooner is better ;)) Xfree86 will change config/cf directory to discourage imake from believing there's only One True X hierarchy on the system. Then one'll be able to easily reroute all imake-built ports to /usr/local/X11R6