From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 14 11:23:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08329 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:23:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08292 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:22:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA07458; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:57:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199806141757.NAA07458@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: I2C bus In-Reply-To: <19980609234406.41618@breizh.prism.uvsq.fr> from Nicolas Souchu at "Jun 9, 98 11:44:06 pm" To: Nicolas.Souchu@prism.uvsq.fr (Nicolas Souchu) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mbouget@club-internet.fr X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We're about to write Philips semiconductor support for the I2C bus. I put my latest code up on incoming where the incoming elves will move it someplace else and I guess tell us. Look for "i2c.tgz" dated June 14. This code will be the basis for a FreeBSD driver for boards/systems based on the Philips controller chip that I'll be putting together real soon, well, as soon as that problem bubbles to the top of my priority list, hopefully this month. If someone is interested in working toward a bit-banging (i.e., line printer port etc) implementation then they should look at the i2cslave code in that tar ball and consider what it would take to make a non-blocking state driven master similar to the non-blocking state driven slave that it now implements. I'm not going to have a lot of time to work on this, so I'll be changing this for my needs. Specifically, I plan on changing the current i2c.c Philips code to a reentrant interrupt driven driver with the slave address encoded in the device minor number. I'll keep in the back of my mind the idea that someone may want to splice in the bit banging code, so I'll modify the current compile time selection to be member-function table driven. This is not the greatest code since it has always been developed specifically to meet my needs. However, it is wrung out, has run in several environments over the last 5 or 6 years, and is solid from the point of view of timing. Enjoy - Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 14 11:41:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10914 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:41:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paul.rutgers.edu (talukdar@paul.rutgers.edu [128.6.5.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10860 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:41:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from talukdar@paul.rutgers.edu) Received: (from talukdar@localhost) by paul.rutgers.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09263 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:41:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Anup Talukdar Message-Id: <199806141841.OAA09263@paul.rutgers.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Please ignore, testing Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG testing To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 14 11:45:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11431 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:45:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11419; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:45:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199806141845.LAA11419@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Please ignore, testing In-Reply-To: <199806141841.OAA09263@paul.rutgers.edu> from Anup Talukdar at "Jun 14, 98 02:41:08 pm" To: talukdar@paul.rutgers.edu (Anup Talukdar) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anup Talukdar wrote: > testing > please, never use any list but freebsd-test for test messages. if you use any of the regular lists, you may be removed from the FreeBSD mailing lists. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 14 18:04:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10714 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:04:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10709 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:04:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ("port 3109"@[139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IY9HF406KW0037SM@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:03:57 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-10 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IY9HF26LGWAW27CC@cim.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:03:55 +1000 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA29197 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:03:53 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:03:53 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Making world with gcc-2.8.1 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199806150103.LAA29197@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 04:10:00 -0400, Matthew Hagerty wrote: >I tried to compile a 2.2.6-R kernel with gcc-2.8.1, did not work. I posted >a question about it, but no one replied I don't recall seeing your post, or I would have responded. For anyone who's interested, the following URL refers to I patch I made to gcc to solve this problem the when I search for my patch to fix this problem: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=38383+56919+/usr/local/www/db/text/1998/freebsd-ports/19980412.freebsd-ports (Someone more familiar with the FreeBSD WWW site layout might be able to give a shorter URL). Note that you'll also need to ensure that you use the old cpp for pre-processing the assembler sources. Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jun 14 20:39:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29922 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:39:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gtw.indosat.co.id ([202.155.2.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29899 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rbh@indosat.co.id) Received: from BANZAI by gtw.indosat.co.id with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id LZXXMCQV; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:41:20 +0700 Message-ID: <008a01bd988c$69d8c820$16396464@banzai.indosat.co.id> From: "Rommy Bastian" To: Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:35:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0087_01BD9851.BD1E62A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BD9851.BD1E62A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable subscribe hackers ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BD9851.BD1E62A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BD9851.BD1E62A0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 00:11:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22893 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22874 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:11:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hans@news.IAEhv.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.8.8/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 21984 on Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:11:21 GMT; id HAA21984 efrom: hans; eto: UNKNOWN Received: by truk.brandinnovators.com (8.8.7/BI96070101) for id IAA11326; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:37:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199806150637.IAA11326@truk.brandinnovators.com> From: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) Subject: Re: TCP sequence numbers In-Reply-To: <199806121439.HAA11334@austin.polstra.com> from John Polstra at "Jun 12, 98 07:39:28 am" To: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:37:21 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > John Polstra wrote: > In article <199806120831.KAA00529@truk.brandinnovators.com>, > Hans Zuidam wrote: > > For a particularly nasty TCP problem I have with an embedded target > > I would like to have the ability to always use the same initial > > sequence number on a particular connection. It would make it easier > > to compare tcpdump traces. > Are you sure? Tcpdump prints TCP sequence numbers in relative form, > relative to the initial one, unless you give it the "-S" option. Your > traces should match already, except for the initial packet from each > side. But the other side cannot "tcpdump", it's an embedded system from which I can only get absolute sequence numbers ;-( Also, trpt(8) dumps it's sequence numbers in abosolute (hex) numbers, that's easy to change. It's probably easier to have TCP use the same initial sequence number instead of modifying other programs. To add predictable sequence numbers I am thinking to add a TCP option for setsockopt(3) to set an initial sequence number. Maybe a sysctl could be added to turn the feature globally on or off. Regards, Hans -- H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 01:13:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29585 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 01:13:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA29555 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 01:13:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw150.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw150 [192.23.231.75]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02895 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:12:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw150.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA03270; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:12:42 +0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Checksum mismatch Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 15 Jun 1998 10:12:41 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 36 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been getting a lot of checksum mismatches while cvsupping lately, most of them on Makefiles, but also some on sgml and troff files. Is anybody else seeing this? This is from a concatenation of daily cvsup logs from Saturday until today (cvsup runs nightly at 01:00 CEST): dag-erli@hrotti ~$ grep mism cvsup-log ports/misc/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file doc/handbook/contrib.sgml: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file doc/handbook/eresources.sgml: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file doc/handbook/submitters.sgml: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file doc/ja/handbook/handbook.sgml: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file doc/ja/handbook/ports.sgml: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/graphics/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/lang/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/net/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/security/ssh/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/www/apache13/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file src/sys/i386/include/si.h: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file src/usr.sbin/cdcontrol/cdcontrol.1: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/mail/fetchmail/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file src/share/syscons/keymaps/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file src/sys/i386/eisa/bt74x.c: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file src/sys/miscfs/fdesc/fdesc_vnops.c: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/games/jzip/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/japanese/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/mail/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/www/apache-php/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/www/apache-php/pkg/PLIST: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file src/share/syscons/keymaps/INDEX.keymaps: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/games/jzip/pkg/PLIST: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file ports/www/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 04:37:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22560 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:37:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22466; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:36:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/Spinner) with ESMTP id TAA26670; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:36:07 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199806151136.TAA26670@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Checksum mismatch In-reply-to: Your message of "15 Jun 1998 10:12:41 +0200." Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:36:06 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Coidan Sm?rgrav wrote: > I've been getting a lot of checksum mismatches while cvsupping lately, > most of them on Makefiles, but also some on sgml and troff files. Is > anybody else seeing this? > = > This is from a concatenation of daily cvsup logs from Saturday until > today (cvsup runs nightly at 01:00 CEST): > = > dag-erli@hrotti ~$ grep mism cvsup-log = > ports/misc/Makefile: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file > doc/handbook/contrib.sgml: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire fi= le > doc/handbook/eresources.sgml: Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire= file You need to update your cvsup to version 15.4.. Somebody has done a 'make world' on freefall, and there are now minor = whitespace differences in the rcs files that cvs generates - cvsup doesn'= t = know how to duplicate these (and shouldn't really need to know since they= = are optional). John Polstra implemented a smart checksum algorithm in version 15.4 to = cover this and other similar variations in the future. We were planning on giving a few weeks notice that this was coming up, bu= t = things seem to have crept up on us unawares. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 08:35:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28956 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gizmo.dimension.net (gizmo.dimension.net [209.12.7.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28928 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jaitken@dimension.net) Received: (from jaitken@localhost) by gizmo.dimension.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15512 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:34:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Aitken Message-Id: <199806151534.LAA15512@gizmo.dimension.net> Subject: FreeBSD packages (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Reply-to: jaitken@dimension.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I sent the following message to -questions but got no replies. I'm hoping someone here can help answer the question so I don't have to go digging through the pkg_add/pkg_create source. --Jeff > When creating a FreeBSD package that replaces one or more files > which already exist on the system, you can use the 'preserve' > option in the packing list file to save files which would be > overwritten. These saved files are restored when the package is > removed. > > However, I can't seem to find out what the name of the saved command > is _from within my package_. I can see that if I replace > /usr/bin/foo, the original /usr/bin/foo is renamed to > /usr/bin/.foo.PACKAGENAME.backup. > > Can I rely on this naming scheme, or is there a programatic way of > finding out what a file was renamed to from within a package (e.g., > in an install script or somesuch)? > > Alternatively, can I get this information out of any of the pkg_??? > commands? I have tried most everything in the man pages, but no > luck so far. > -- Jeff Aitken jaitken@dimension.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 08:59:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04795 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:59:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04758 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:59:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01126; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:59:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: jaitken@dimension.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD packages (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:34:42 EDT." <199806151534.LAA15512@gizmo.dimension.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:59:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1122.897926344@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > However, I can't seem to find out what the name of the saved command > is _from within my package_. I can see that if I replace > /usr/bin/foo, the original /usr/bin/foo is renamed to > /usr/bin/.foo.PACKAGENAME.backup. Well, that heuristic is unlikely to change and no, I don't have any particular way of finding out the filename - how would you prefer to have access to that info if I modified the pkg tools to make it available? It would hardly be difficult to add, but I'm not sure just how you'd want the semantics of this to look. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 09:22:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08509 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gizmo.dimension.net (gizmo.dimension.net [209.12.7.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08483 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:22:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jaitken@dimension.net) Received: (from jaitken@localhost) by gizmo.dimension.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18120; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:22:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Aitken Message-Id: <199806151622.MAA18120@gizmo.dimension.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD packages (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1122.897926344@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jun 15, 98 08:59:04 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jaitken@dimension.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jaitken@dimension.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > However, I can't seem to find out what the name of the saved command > > is _from within my package_. I can see that if I replace > > /usr/bin/foo, the original /usr/bin/foo is renamed to > > /usr/bin/.foo.PACKAGENAME.backup. > > Well, that heuristic is unlikely to change and no, I don't have any > particular way of finding out the filename - how would you prefer to > have access to that info if I modified the pkg tools to make it > available? It would hardly be difficult to add, but I'm not sure just > how you'd want the semantics of this to look. I think the best approach would be to define environment variables with various bits of useful information, which can be accessed from installation/removal scripts. The reason I like this approach is that it is extensible: supplying installation scripts with more information at a later date (i.e., stuff you or I might not think of now but someone else does later ) is as easy as defining a few new environment variables in pkg_create/pkg_add. This is also how several other OSes do it: Solaris 2.x: Any files to be overwritten can be copied into a directory that you can access from {pre,post}install scripts. The packaging tools set the envionment variable ${PKGSAV} to this directory name. So, for example, /usr/bin/foo can be moved to ${PKGSAV} in a preinstall script, and moved back to /usr/bin in the postremove script. (At least, I don't think this happens automagically). Digital UNIX 4.0: Files to be overwritten are automatically saved in their existing directories with a different suffix. This suffix can be accessed from {pre,post}install scripts as the environment variable ${_ORGEXT}. So, for example, /usr/bin/foo becomes /usr/bin/foo.${_ORGEXT}. As I recall, setld does all of this for you (whereas some other places you have to do the moving yourself). HP-UX 10.x gives similar functionality, but I haven't quite figured it out yet. HP and IBM have made their software packaging procedure w-a-y too complicated, so I've made less progess there. :-) --Jeff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 10:33:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20908 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11184 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199806151732.KAA11184@austin.polstra.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: You need to upgrade to CVSup 15.4 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:32:53 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Attention CVSup users and mirror site administrators. If you have not already done so, you need to upgrade to release 15.4 of CVSup. If you don't, you are going to start seeing many "Checksum mismatch -- will transfer entire file" messages, and your updates will slow down dramatically as each file is re-transferred in its entirety. This has become a pressing issue for us now, because freefall.freebsd.org was recently upgraded to a new version of CVS. For details, see question 17 of the CVSup FAQ, which can be found at . CVSup is available from and from FreeBSD FTP mirror sites around the world. CVSup 15.4 was released on April 28, 1998. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 10:54:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25274 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA14952; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd014950; Mon Jun 15 17:43:18 1998 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:43:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Hans Zuidam cc: John Polstra , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP sequence numbers In-Reply-To: <199806150637.IAA11326@truk.brandinnovators.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG you could use ipfw and ipdivert to divert one particular machine's packets into a sequence-number translator.. basically the same as natd but only fiddling sequence numbers julian On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Hans Zuidam wrote: > > John Polstra wrote: > > In article <199806120831.KAA00529@truk.brandinnovators.com>, > > Hans Zuidam wrote: > > > For a particularly nasty TCP problem I have with an embedded target > > > I would like to have the ability to always use the same initial > > > sequence number on a particular connection. It would make it easier > > > to compare tcpdump traces. > > Are you sure? Tcpdump prints TCP sequence numbers in relative form, > > relative to the initial one, unless you give it the "-S" option. Your > > traces should match already, except for the initial packet from each > > side. > But the other side cannot "tcpdump", it's an embedded system from > which I can only get absolute sequence numbers ;-( Also, trpt(8) > dumps it's sequence numbers in abosolute (hex) numbers, that's easy > to change. > > It's probably easier to have TCP use the same initial sequence > number instead of modifying other programs. To add predictable > sequence numbers I am thinking to add a TCP option for setsockopt(3) > to set an initial sequence number. Maybe a sysctl could be added > to turn the feature globally on or off. > > Regards, > Hans > > -- > H. Zuidam E-Mail: hans@brandinnovators.com > Brand Innovators B.V. P-Mail: P.O. Box 1377 > de Pinckart 54 5602 BJ Eindhoven, The Netherlands > 5674 CC Nuenen Tel. +31 40 2631134, Fax. +31 40 2831138 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 11:34:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02181 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:34:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from the.oneinsane.net (insane@gw.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02160 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:34:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane@the.oneinsane.net) Received: (from insane@localhost) by the.oneinsane.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12449; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:34:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from insane) Message-ID: <19980615113421.A12442@oneinsane.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:34:21 -0700 From: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" To: John Polstra Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You need to upgrade to CVSup 15.4 Mail-Followup-To: John Polstra , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <199806151732.KAA11184@austin.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806151732.KAA11184@austin.polstra.com>; from John Polstra on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 10:32:53AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD the.oneinsane.net 2.2.6-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John & Fellow Hackers, Could you be a little more specific. Are we talking protocol version or software version? Here is what I have. insane-the> cvsup -v CVSup client Software version: REL_15_2 Protocol version: 15.4 So do I need to upgrade or am I alright? TIA Ron On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 10:32:53AM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > Attention CVSup users and mirror site administrators. If you have not > already done so, you need to upgrade to release 15.4 of CVSup. If > you don't, you are going to start seeing many "Checksum mismatch -- > will transfer entire file" messages, and your updates will slow down > dramatically as each file is re-transferred in its entirety. > > This has become a pressing issue for us now, because > freefall.freebsd.org was recently upgraded to a new version of CVS. > > For details, see question 17 of the CVSup FAQ, which can be found at > . > > CVSup is available from > and from FreeBSD FTP mirror sites around the world. CVSup 15.4 was > released on April 28, 1998. > -- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- -------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void -------------------------------------------------------- It's so nice to be insane, nobody asks you to explain. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 12:05:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07234 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07183 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:05:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id OAA24314; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:04:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" cc: John Polstra , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You need to upgrade to CVSup 15.4 In-Reply-To: <19980615113421.A12442@oneinsane.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson wrote: > John & Fellow Hackers, I believe hes talking about software version. I.e the 15.4 version thats in ports. [ROOT][1:29pm] /usr/ports/net/macipgw>cvsup -v CVSup client, GUI version Software version: REL_15_4 Protocol version: 15.5 This version ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 12:14:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [195.178.136.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08538 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: (from vovik@localhost) by ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA15052; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:11:37 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <19980615221137.03151@NTU-KPI.Kiev.UA> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:11:37 +0300 From: "Vladimir A. Jakovenko" To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getty issue file References: <19980612230931.49179@NTU-KPI.Kiev.UA> <199806122157.OAA20184@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199806122157.OAA20184@usr01.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Jun 12, 1998 at 09:57:36PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 12, 1998 at 09:57:36PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Generally, I need to load russian fonts into DEC VT420/DEC VT240 > > terminals. After looking at gettytab(5) I found the easiest way > > -- use the "if" (issue file) tag, because getty cat it to terminal > > when terminal comming up. > > We used to download and select sixel fonts on vt220, vt320, and vt420 > hardware. > > We used the "rf" (reset file) or "if" (initialization file) attributes > to specify a file with a sixel font image, complete with escape > sequences, to send to the terminal. > > Then we used the standard "reset" variant of "tset" to get the font > out there: > > eval `reset -s vt320-russian` > > (for example). > > If you insist on using getty to do the work (a bad idea, since it makes > the terminal russian instead of the login account), as long as you didn't > run more than 512 characters between newlines, it's not an problem. Damn ... In my situation making a terminal to speak russian in getty is a good idea because I need russian motd banner message for librarians :-) > > This means you needs to ensure the terminal is in the base state before > doing the newline. This is relatively easy to do, and won't damage the > ability to download the sixel based character sets. > > You *will* have to deal with a number-of-characters-in-the-sixel-set > lines of CRLF, however... Hmm ... according to getty sources, it uses 512 bytes buffer not for each line, but for all issue file. > > I prefer the tset method (for the obvious reasons). Terry, do you know any VT 240/420 terminals feature likes 'keymap' in the freebsd console code? With loadable fonts I can display russian, but sometimes I also need typing in russian, and at present I have only one solution -- run screen from ports and use the screen's feature 'bindkey'. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- Regards, Vladimir. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 12:28:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10922 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:28:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po1.bbn.com (PO1.BBN.COM [192.1.50.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10905 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:28:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@bbn.com) Received: from bbn.com (DROCKWELL.BBN.COM [128.89.31.139]) by po1.bbn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA04665; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806151928.PAA04665@po1.bbn.com> To: hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) cc: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP sequence numbers In-reply-to: Message from hans@brandinnovators.com (Hans Zuidam) <199806150637.IAA11326@truk.brandinnovators.com> . X-face: &R'hN{mZu#r@8b_JU\bn"!fYpP{?5k4p/(|]?.2'6;>Dc9}~t*vY=/#-:"63ya.%)%o`Kv$ u&'Ff5k&n[}QC;j7YYsR5Hl]G"E:*9Zmw;dx[sw&9Tmx_PB/7B`RdFW;#@49hJU&kW+J"<[`9^?.dQ 3]L$zK,4'=tThX$wC!M\`e*@1y Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:28:02 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15 Jun, Hans Zuidam wrote: > > John Polstra wrote: > > [ ... ] Tcpdump prints TCP sequence numbers in relative form, > > relative to the initial one, unless you give it the "-S" option. Your > > traces should match already, except for the initial packet from each > > side. > But the other side cannot "tcpdump", it's an embedded system from > which I can only get absolute sequence numbers ;-( Also, trpt(8) > dumps it's sequence numbers in abosolute (hex) numbers, that's easy > to change. If you're doing the comparisons under FreeBSD, it's a dead-trivial AWK or perl script to normalize the sequence numbers. Or are you comparing printouts from two different systems, rather than files online? Dennis Rockwell dennis@bbn.com GTE Internetworking Powered by BBN +1-617-873-5745 Cambridge, MA +1-617-873-6091 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 12:48:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13922 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:48:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (kcgw2.att.com [192.128.133.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA13742 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by kcgw2.att.com; Mon Jun 15 14:28 CDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by kcig2.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id OAA25062 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:47:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:54:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua, tlambert@primenet.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: getty issue file Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:54:42 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Vladimir A. Jakovenko [SMTP:vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua] > > On Fri, Jun 12, 1998 at 09:57:36PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Damn ... In my situation making a terminal to speak russian in getty > is a good > idea because I need russian motd banner message for librarians :-) > Huh ? Is not /etc/motd printed from /etc/profile ? You can put tset in /etc/profile before printing motd. > > > > I prefer the tset method (for the obvious reasons). > > Terry, do you know any VT 240/420 terminals feature likes 'keymap' in > the freebsd > console code? With loadable fonts I can display russian, but sometimes > I also > need typing in russian, and at present I have only one solution -- run > screen > from ports and use the screen's feature 'bindkey'. > Oh, well, I remember SCO `mapchan' :-) If you implement this thing in the line discipline 0, I guess, it would be useful. :-) By the way, why do you use these terminals ? Using old PCs is cheaper and better, and allows to use network connection over Ethernet which is yet cheaper and better. -Sergey Babkin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 13:10:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17093 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17053 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:10:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12261; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:10:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199806152010.NAA12261@austin.polstra.com> To: "Ron 'The Insane One' Rosson" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You need to upgrade to CVSup 15.4 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:34:21 PDT." <19980615113421.A12442@oneinsane.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:10:02 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Could you be a little more specific. Are we talking protocol version > or software version? Sorry. I meant software version. If yours doesn't say REL_15_4 then you need to upgrade. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 13:14:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17787 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17780 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:14:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03271; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:14:01 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA00522; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:14:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980615221400.16758@follo.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:14:00 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: John Polstra Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You need to upgrade to CVSup 15.4 References: <19980615113421.A12442@oneinsane.net> <199806152010.NAA12261@austin.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199806152010.NAA12261@austin.polstra.com>; from John Polstra on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 01:10:02PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 01:10:02PM -0700, John Polstra wrote: > > Could you be a little more specific. Are we talking protocol version > > or software version? > > Sorry. I meant software version. If yours doesn't say REL_15_4 > then you need to upgrade. How about making packages available in the packages-current directory on ftp.freebsd.org? I know about the cvsup-bin port, but still... Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 13:22:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18961 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:22:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18868 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:21:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24635; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:21:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd024608; Mon Jun 15 13:21:39 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA20336; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:21:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806152021.NAA20336@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: getty issue file To: vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (Vladimir A. Jakovenko) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:21:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980615221137.03151@NTU-KPI.Kiev.UA> from "Vladimir A. Jakovenko" at Jun 15, 98 10:11:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > This means you needs to ensure the terminal is in the base state before > > doing the newline. This is relatively easy to do, and won't damage the > > ability to download the sixel based character sets. > > > > You *will* have to deal with a number-of-characters-in-the-sixel-set > > lines of CRLF, however... > > Hmm ... according to getty sources, it uses 512 bytes buffer not for each > line, but for all issue file. No. It calls getline repeatedly. See line 328 of /usr/src/libexec/getty/main.c: /* if this is the first time through this, and an issue file has been given, then send it */ if (first_time && IF) { int fd; if ((fd = open(IF, O_RDONLY)) != -1) { char * cp; --->>> while ((cp = getline(fd)) != NULL) { putf(cp); } close(fd); } } first_time = 0; The point is that getline() will fail is there is more than 512 bytes before the EOL (LF). > Terry, do you know any VT 240/420 terminals feature likes 'keymap' in > the freebsd console code? With loadable fonts I can display russian, > but sometimes I also need typing in russian, and at present I have only > one solution -- run screen from ports and use the screen's feature > 'bindkey'. Probably the correct way to do it is to translate serial keyboard events into key-up/key-down pairs, and map them in that way. The best method would be to add a line discipline, and just use the "kbdmap" utility to install the maps. This would be the most general soloution, since if done right, it would work with all the existing map files, magically. For upper case characters, you'll have to do "shift-down", "key-down", "key-up", "shift-up". For control characters, "ctrl-down" ... "ctrl-up", and similar bracketing. It's probably not worthwhile supporting function key translation, since that is too terminal specific. You would need to add an additional line discipline (terminal specific) to handle that. If you wanted to go that far, I would suggest modelling the terminal state in the raw processing module, shared by all tty style devices, ie: as an option in the TTYDISC or NTTYDISC. This would let you transparent print when the automaton was at state 0, and also let you access the status lines atomically, etc.. This is a real win, which UNIX can't currently cope with, except using third party drivers, like those available from Computone, etc.. You'd also be able to use the VTXXX series "DEC mice", which send escape sequences on button down, but don't send motion-notify events. I'd be willing to help on *some* of this, since I've basically done this code before for a commercial UNIX tty application vendor. Alternately, you could buy Russian keyboards from DEC. 8-(. I don't think there are any, since you are more than an NRCS away from US ASCII. Alternately alternately, you could make "mapchan" work. This is an inferior approach, though, since it means that you wouldn't be able to leverage the keymaps in either direction. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 14:42:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:42:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03682 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12945; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:42:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199806152142.OAA12945@austin.polstra.com> To: Eivind Eklund cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You need to upgrade to CVSup 15.4 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:14:00 +0200." <19980615221400.16758@follo.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:42:18 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How about making packages available in the packages-current > directory on ftp.freebsd.org? Packages are available in the packages-stable directory. They should work OK under -current. Sorry, I am leaving for USENIX early tomorrow morning, and I don't have time to make any new packages. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 14:51:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05158 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05133 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:50:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jer@jorsm.com) Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA01411; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:50:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:50:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy Shaffner To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Marcus Haebler Subject: NTFS for FreeBSD (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thought this might be more suited to this list. -===================================================================- Jeremy Shaffner JORSM Internet Senior Technical Support Northwest Indiana's Premium jer@jorsm.com Internet Service Provider support@jorsm.com http://www.jorsm.com -===================================================================- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:06:28 +0200 From: Marcus Haebler To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: NTFS for FreeBSD Hi, I might be interested in trying to write an NTFS file system driver if the project is not already assigned to someone. Who can give me some details? I also need someone who can give me information about integrating a file system into BSD. If someone has a collection of documents, links or literature references concerning this subject, send them to me, please. (Don't tell me to look into the source or at the "Documentation" pages, I will do that). Thanks in advance, Marcus Haebler To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 14:58:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06157 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:58:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06109 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA10694; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:58:10 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980616075807.13931@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:58:07 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: ben@rosengart.com Cc: Darren Reed , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <199806101519.IAA22143@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 12:41:45PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 12:41:45PM -0400, Snob Art Genre wrote: > Why is package installation in the install anyway? It's just as easily > done when the system is up. Same with a lot of the configuration stuff > in the install, don't you think someone setting a system up as a router > can do it by hand? It's there for us newbies whose backs you're talking behind here :-) Hehe, not quite hidden. So what if you guys have a few minor inconveniences. You can deal with them. And you have options. A newbie installing freebsd to learn unix has few options. After my third attempt to install from CD, running out of disk space (without being told so) every time, I threw the CD in the bin and booted DOS. Where were you to tell me it's easy to install packages afterwards? Where were you to tell me that I could use alt-F2 though I'd need a unix reference to do anything with it, or that it was OK to install bash but installing both TeX and Emacs with the X Developer distribution on a 200 meg partition was asking a bit much? The installation either clagged with screens of programmer-speak or (to my view) completed beautifully but the installed system wouldn't work right. There was free space, but apparently more space was needed during the installation. How was I to know that FreeBSD didn't stop like win3.1 when the disk fills up, or warn during package selection like OS/2? All I had was sysinstall, the handbook, and a CD. No people, no Internet, no nothing, and I threw that damn CD to buggery for a silly out of disk space problem, that even I could have avoided, had I seen the numbers. Things might have improved a lot, I haven't installed from CD since a few versions ago, but at that time I needed everything to be done for me during installation and I needed more info about space requirements and much more feedback about what had wrong. It's not the problems that get to me, it's people trying to fix problems while forgetting that we don't all have the same skills and resources. I hope that you experts have a nice Hackerly Correct installation that will satisfy your philosopy about what's "right". We'll all catch up with you one day if you make us work hard enough. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 15:36:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13160 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:36:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.ida.net (mail.ida.net [204.228.203.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13130 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from muck@ida.net) Received: from falcon.hinterlands.com (pm-pt2-27.ida.net [198.60.251.236]) by dns.ida.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA14687; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:36:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3585A1F2.41C67EA6@ida.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:36:34 -0600 From: Mike X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-980520-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <199806101519.IAA22143@hub.freebsd.org> <19980616075807.13931@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sue Blake wrote: > > It's there for us newbies whose backs you're talking behind here :-) > Hehe, not quite hidden. [..] > So what if you guys have a few minor inconveniences. You can deal with > them. And you have options. A newbie installing freebsd to learn unix has > few options. [..] > I hope that you experts have a nice Hackerly Correct installation that > will satisfy your philosopy about what's "right". We'll all catch up with > you one day if you make us work hard enough. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- I agree with you that more info should be provided by sysinstall, but when you are asked *too* many questions, it becomes annoying. Case in point when you delete files in win95. 1st try: "Are you sure that you want to send this directory to the recycle bin?" Yes. 2nd try: "foo.exe is a program. Are you sure you want to send it to the recycle bin?" Yes-to-All. 3rd try: File-Empty Recycle bin. "Are you sure you want to delete these programs?" Yes. You have to answer yes three times to delete the program. It sounds like that is what you would like sysinstall to prompt you for each package you install. 1st try: You have selected these packages for installation. OK. 2nd try: Did you really say yes? I can't remember so I'll ask you again. Yes. 3rd try: Hmm...how bout I ask you for a third time if you want to install this package. Yes. What's that you say? Yes? Well then! We'll proceed to installing the package now... Not sure if any of the above had anything to do with your email, but oh well. Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 15:41:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14268 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:41:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14237 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:40:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA13534; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:39:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806152239.AAA13534@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: NTFS for FreeBSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: from Jeremy Shaffner at "Jun 15, 98 04:50:49 pm" To: jer@jorsm.com (Jeremy Shaffner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:39:49 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mh@muenster.net From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Jeremy Shaffner who wrote: > Hi, > > I might be interested in trying to write an NTFS file system driver if the > project is not already assigned to someone. Who can give me some details? > > I also need someone who can give me information about integrating a file system > into BSD. If someone has a collection of documents, links or literature > references concerning this subject, send them to me, please. (Don't tell me to > look into the source or at the "Documentation" pages, I will do that). > > Thanks in advance, Sounds like a good project, go for it!! I'll point the right persons at you, but most are at Usenix right now so don't be alarmed if this week passes without any actions, its simply because most of us are out of town... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 16:08:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16992 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16982 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:08:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02902; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:07:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake cc: ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:58:07 +1000." <19980616075807.13931@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:07:33 -0700 Message-ID: <2898.897952053@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > After my third attempt to install from CD, running out of disk space > (without being told so) every time, I threw the CD in the bin and booted > DOS. Where were you to tell me it's easy to install packages afterwards? > Where were you to tell me that I could use alt-F2 though I'd need a unix Umm, Sue, I appreciate all that you do to help newbies, but I think you're missing a fundamental point here. This is a volunteer project, first and foremost, and if people really *want* some feature like this then they simply have to implement it - neither I nor anyone else has the time an energy to implement each and every creature comfort that users would like to see, as much as we might like to (and the total lack of space information in a package, especially if it's sitting at the end of an FTP connection, makes this a little harder than most folks would think). If users don't implement the features they want in a volunteer OS then they don't get them, it's just that simple. I also know that not everyone necessarily has the ability to beat a path towards their own personal Shangri-la, but that's what commercial software is for - if you really need more than any free OS is able to give you then it's probably time to reach for your wallet and PAY for something which does. I believe that both Solaris and SCO provide better diagnostics for the out-of-disk space condition, as does Windows 95 if you're on a tighter budget. And no, I'm not being sarcastic with this message, I'm just being factual. Going "bitch bitch bitch stupid software bitch bitch bitch wanted to throw the fucking CD in the trash bitch bitch bitch Win95 has this feature bitch bitch bitch" is only a good way of alienating folks who know that this is a problem but lack the time to do much about it. If you want it fixed, FIX IT! That's the lovely thing about free software - you have that option and are always encouraged to exercise it, no matter who you are, if it's something you really really want. If you're not motivated enough to gain the skills necessary to do it, then I guess you didn't want the feature that much after all, did ya? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 16:31:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19576 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:31:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19446 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:30:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10991; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:30:43 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980616093038.27112@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:30:38 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Mike Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <199806101519.IAA22143@hub.freebsd.org> <19980616075807.13931@welearn.com.au> <3585A1F2.41C67EA6@ida.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3585A1F2.41C67EA6@ida.net>; from Mike on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:36:34PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:36:34PM -0600, Mike wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > I hope that you experts have a nice Hackerly Correct installation that > > will satisfy your philosopy about what's "right". We'll all catch up with > > you one day if you make us work hard enough. > > > > I agree with you that more info should be provided by sysinstall, Fine :-) But you want more. So be it. > but when you are asked *too* many questions, it becomes annoying. Case > in point when you delete files in win95. > > 1st try: "Are you sure that you want to send this directory to the > recycle bin?" Yes. > > 2nd try: "foo.exe is a program. Are you sure you want to send it to > the recycle bin?" > Yes-to-All. > > 3rd try: File-Empty Recycle bin. "Are you sure you want to delete > these programs?" > Yes. > > You have to answer yes three times to delete the program. > > > It sounds like that is what you would like sysinstall to prompt you for > each package you install. Now you're being absurd. And totally missing the point. What makes you think that, because I wish for some access to info about the size of what I select to install, I want this stupid question and answer game, or because I want things like my shell and favourite editor set up during installation I want to be asked to confirm all packages? What makes you think that, just because I'm a newbie, I have run win95 let alone like what it does? You are obviously quite familiar with its behaviour, so you must prefer it. Just as silly, no? > Not sure if any of the above had anything to do with your email, but oh > well. Perhaps not, but it was very revealing about common untested prejudices about newbies. Now, come on, tell me that I'll never be prepared to read the f*cking manual without telling me where the bloody thing is or checking yourself that the topic is included, come on, tell me I'm too stupid to appreciate anything that's done to make things easier, that I only want a games machine or a typewriter, that I'll never be anything to freebsd except wasted space, that I want everything done for me by others without putting in any effort. Then when I ask for advice on how to approach learning/fixing something give a cryptic one-liner or do the whole bloody job for me so you can use this as evidence of my laziness. Do those things now while I'm here brandishing thick skin, not to some other sucker who's too intimidated to teach you about their true motivation. If you do still cling to the bullish naive assumptions about newbies, use them or lose them. I don't see how any hacker can claim to be good until they understand the needs of those who are most restricted in their use of the software, whether those needs can be addressed or not. Most people here seem to agree, but have less than ideal access to the newbie's point of view. Until you believe that there is something, anything, to be gained from newbies you'll keep spiralling into a diminishing world of cronies. You don't attract new blood by shedding it. OBTW, when you guys are two old to see the bloody screen and your fingers are too gnarled to use the keyboard properly, we'll be sitting here developing your adaptive software however we think is "good for them". Remember that :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 16:50:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22541 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22490 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA11063; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:50:09 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:50:05 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <19980616075807.13931@welearn.com.au> <2898.897952053@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <2898.897952053@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:07:33PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:07:33PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > After my third attempt to install from CD, running out of disk space > > (without being told so) every time, I threw the CD in the bin and booted > > DOS. Where were you to tell me it's easy to install packages afterwards? > > Where were you to tell me that I could use alt-F2 though I'd need a unix > > Umm, Sue, I appreciate all that you do to help newbies, but I think Good deeds never stopped anyone from doing bad deeds :-) > you're missing a fundamental point here. This is a volunteer project, > first and foremost, and if people really *want* some feature like this > then they simply have to implement it - neither I nor anyone else has > the time an energy to implement each and every creature comfort that > users would like to see, as much as we might like to (and the total > lack of space information in a package, especially if it's sitting at > the end of an FTP connection, makes this a little harder than most > folks would think). If users don't implement the features they want > in a volunteer OS then they don't get them, it's just that simple. Sure. Like I said, problems are not an issue at all. If they can't be fixed right away, or at all, that's acceptable. We can document it to protect the unprepared if necessary. The only thing that really gets my goat is pretending that if it's not an issue for an expert then it won't be an issue to anyone else. > I also know that not everyone necessarily has the ability to beat a > path towards their own personal Shangri-la, but that's what commercial > software is for - if you really need more than any free OS is able to > give you then it's probably time to reach for your wallet and PAY for > something which does. I believe that both Solaris and SCO provide > better diagnostics for the out-of-disk space condition, as does > Windows 95 if you're on a tighter budget. I doubt many would want either of them. I found it very difficult to get 1. advice on how much space each distribution would take to install (which is not the same as final disk space) 2. advice during or before installation on the size of packages, like is it a few K or a few tens of megs. Anything to assist here would be worthwhile. I also took objection to the idea that packages should not be available during installation. That would cut out freebsd's accessibility to a lot of newbies. My one concern was that it sounded like that didn't matter to anyone. > And no, I'm not being sarcastic with this message, I'm just being > factual. Going "bitch bitch bitch stupid software bitch bitch bitch > wanted to throw the fucking CD in the trash bitch bitch bitch Win95 > has this feature bitch bitch bitch" is only a good way of alienating > folks who know that this is a problem but lack the time to do much > about it. If you want it fixed, FIX IT! Sure, as soon as I can I will, but isn't that a bit of a catch 22? Obviously I don't feel frustrated about freebsd as I did back then. If others feel like that now, nobody will get to see their anger, they'll just drift away bad-mouthing freebsd. We have to avoid that happening where it is reasonably practical to do so. Tailoring everything to experts is an easy trap to slip into. We're just starting to come out of that trap and when I think I see people slipping back into it it scares the bejeebers outa me. > That's the lovely thing about free software - you have that option and > are always encouraged to exercise it, no matter who you are, if it's > something you really really want. If you're not motivated enough to > gain the skills necessary to do it, then I guess you didn't want the > feature that much after all, did ya? :-) I have shown many sides, but I don't think I have ever shown lack of motivation. Hand over the tardis and I'll shut up and fix it :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 17:03:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imparnet.imparcial.com.mx (imparnet.imparcial.com.mx [200.38.158.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA24168 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:03:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarquia@deathsdoor.com) Received: from [200.38.158.45] by imparnet.imparcial.com.mx (NTMail 3.03.0014/1.abpu) with ESMTP id na045123 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:05:07 +0100 Message-ID: <3585C3E6.742991CE@deathsdoor.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:01:26 +0000 From: desiertos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: Mike , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <199806101519.IAA22143@hub.freebsd.org> <19980616075807.13931@welearn.com.au> <3585A1F2.41C67EA6@ida.net> <19980616093038.27112@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7BE4F94DB7987C69C30A42AC" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --------------7BE4F94DB7987C69C30A42AC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Sue is right, I am a newbie FreeBSD user, and I was a Linux user and admin, I find FreeBSD more robust, but, when my first FreeBSD installing, the setup didnt show too much about sizes or explanation about I was going to install... so I got problems with disk space... is very difficult to add some lines at 'sysinstall' to make things even easier to newcomers and make this operating system better than it is? :) Sue Blake wrote: > Thanks for using NetForward! > http://www.netforward.com > v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v > > On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:36:34PM -0600, Mike wrote: > > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > > > I hope that you experts have a nice Hackerly Correct installation that > > > will satisfy your philosopy about what's "right". We'll all catch up with > > > you one day if you make us work hard enough. > > > > > > > I agree with you that more info should be provided by sysinstall, > > Fine :-) > > But you want more. So be it. > > > but when you are asked *too* many questions, it becomes annoying. Case > > in point when you delete files in win95. > > > > 1st try: "Are you sure that you want to send this directory to the > > recycle bin?" Yes. > > > > 2nd try: "foo.exe is a program. Are you sure you want to send it to > > the recycle bin?" > > Yes-to-All. > > > > 3rd try: File-Empty Recycle bin. "Are you sure you want to delete > > these programs?" > > Yes. > > > > You have to answer yes three times to delete the program. > > > > > > It sounds like that is what you would like sysinstall to prompt you for > > each package you install. > > Now you're being absurd. And totally missing the point. What makes you > think that, because I wish for some access to info about the size of what > I select to install, I want this stupid question and answer game, or > because I want things like my shell and favourite editor set up during > installation I want to be asked to confirm all packages? What makes you > think that, just because I'm a newbie, I have run win95 let alone like > what it does? You are obviously quite familiar with its behaviour, so you > must prefer it. Just as silly, no? > > > Not sure if any of the above had anything to do with your email, but oh > > well. > > Perhaps not, but it was very revealing about common untested prejudices > about newbies. Now, come on, tell me that I'll never be prepared to read > the f*cking manual without telling me where the bloody thing is or > checking yourself that the topic is included, come on, tell me I'm too > stupid to appreciate anything that's done to make things easier, that I > only want a games machine or a typewriter, that I'll never be anything to > freebsd except wasted space, that I want everything done for me by others > without putting in any effort. Then when I ask for advice on how to > approach learning/fixing something give a cryptic one-liner or do the > whole bloody job for me so you can use this as evidence of my laziness. > Do those things now while I'm here brandishing thick skin, not to some > other sucker who's too intimidated to teach you about their true > motivation. If you do still cling to the bullish naive assumptions about > newbies, use them or lose them. > > I don't see how any hacker can claim to be good until they understand the > needs of those who are most restricted in their use of the software, > whether those needs can be addressed or not. Most people here seem to > agree, but have less than ideal access to the newbie's point of view. > Until you believe that there is something, anything, to be gained from > newbies you'll keep spiralling into a diminishing world of cronies. > You don't attract new blood by shedding it. > > OBTW, when you guys are two old to see the bloody screen and your fingers > are too gnarled to use the keyboard properly, we'll be sitting here > developing your adaptive software however we think is "good for them". > Remember that :-) > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- desiertos url: http://www.anarquia.net/ icq: 7225960 --------------7BE4F94DB7987C69C30A42AC Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I think Sue is right, I am a newbie FreeBSD user, and I was a Linux user and admin, I find FreeBSD more robust, but, when my first FreeBSD
installing, the setup didnt show too much about sizes or explanation about I was going to install... so I got problems with disk space... is very
difficult to add some lines at 'sysinstall' to make things even easier to newcomers and make this operating system better than it is? :)
 

Sue Blake wrote:

Thanks for using NetForward!
http://www.netforward.com
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v

On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:36:34PM -0600, Mike wrote:
> Sue Blake wrote:
> >
> > I hope that you experts have a nice Hackerly Correct installation that
> > will satisfy your philosopy about what's "right". We'll all catch up with
> > you one day if you make us work hard enough.
> >
>
> I agree with you that more info should be provided by sysinstall,

Fine :-)

But you want more. So be it.

> but when you are asked *too* many questions, it becomes annoying. Case
> in point when you delete files in win95.
>
> 1st try:  "Are you sure that you want to send this directory to the
> recycle bin?"  Yes.
>
> 2nd try:  "foo.exe is a program.  Are you sure you want to send it to
> the recycle bin?"
> Yes-to-All.
>
> 3rd try:  File-Empty Recycle bin.  "Are you sure you want to delete
> these programs?"
> Yes.
>
> You have to answer yes three times to delete the program.
>
>
> It sounds like that is what you would like sysinstall to prompt you for
> each package you install.

Now you're being absurd. And totally missing the point. What makes you
think that, because I wish for some access to info about the size of what
I select to install, I want this stupid question and answer game, or
because I want things like my shell and favourite editor set up during
installation I want to be asked to confirm all packages? What makes you
think that, just because I'm a newbie, I have run win95 let alone like
what it does? You are obviously quite familiar with its behaviour, so you
must prefer it. Just as silly, no?

> Not sure if any of the above had anything to do with your email, but oh
> well.

Perhaps not, but it was very revealing about common untested prejudices
about newbies. Now, come on, tell me that I'll never be prepared to read
the f*cking manual without telling me where the bloody thing is or
checking yourself that the topic is included, come on, tell me I'm too
stupid to appreciate anything that's done to make things easier, that I
only want a games machine or a typewriter, that I'll never be anything to
freebsd except wasted space, that I want everything done for me by others
without putting in any effort. Then when I ask for advice on how to
approach learning/fixing something give a cryptic one-liner or do the
whole bloody job for me so you can use this as evidence of my laziness.
Do those things now while I'm here brandishing thick skin, not to some
other sucker who's too intimidated to teach you about their true
motivation. If you do still cling to the bullish naive assumptions about
newbies, use them or lose them.

I don't see how any hacker can claim to be good until they understand the
needs of those who are most restricted in their use of the software,
whether those needs can be addressed or not. Most people here seem to
agree, but have less than ideal access to the newbie's point of view.
Until you believe that there is something, anything, to be gained from
newbies you'll keep spiralling into a diminishing world of cronies.
You don't attract new blood by shedding it.

OBTW, when you guys are two old to see the bloody screen and your fingers
are too gnarled to use the keyboard properly, we'll be sitting here
developing your adaptive software however we think is "good for them".
Remember that :-)

--

Regards,
        -*Sue*-

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

  
-- 

                desiertos
url:            http://www.anarquia.net/
icq:            7225960
  --------------7BE4F94DB7987C69C30A42AC-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 17:19:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25983 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dns.ida.net (mail.ida.net [204.228.203.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25929 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from muck@ida.net) Received: from falcon.hinterlands.com (pm-pt2-6.ida.net [198.60.251.215]) by dns.ida.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA25294; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3585BA2C.2781E494@ida.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:19:56 -0600 From: Mike X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-980520-SNAP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sue@welearn.com.au CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sue Blake wrote: > > I agree with you that more info should be provided by sysinstall, > > Fine :-) > > But you want more. So be it. [..] > > Now you're being absurd. And totally missing the point. What makes you > think that, because I wish for some access to info about the size of > what I select to install, I want this stupid question and answer game, or > because I want things like my shell and favourite editor set up during > installation I want to be asked to confirm all packages? What makes you > think that, just because I'm a newbie, I have run win95 let alone like > what it does? You are obviously quite familiar with its behaviour, so > you must prefer it. Just as silly, no? Yeah, I like win95. So what? I also like FreeBSD. You're right that I totally missed the point of your email. For that I'm sorry. But I feel that the average person can use his/her brain to figure things out. I don't feel you have to be a hacker to install FreeBSD. It may take you a few times, but I think the average person is intelligent enough to install it. I used to have FreeBSD installed in a 145 Meg partition, and that included 25 Megs of Swap Space, XFree86, and Netscape 3.04. I ran out of space during several installations before I got it right, so in the next installations I didn't try to install as much. Simple trial and error. > > Not sure if any of the above had anything to do with your email, but oh > > well. > > Perhaps not, but it was very revealing about common untested prejudices > about newbies. No, I'm not prejudiced against newbies. I just don't think that you should expect people to hold your hand. I'm sorry if you think I flamed you. I don't claim to be a hacker, not even close. Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 17:45:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29416 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:45:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29340 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:44:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03227; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:44:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Sue Blake cc: ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:50:05 +1000." <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:44:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3223.897957854@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The only thing that really gets my goat is pretending that if it's not an > issue for an expert then it won't be an issue to anyone else. I don't believe I've ever taken that attitude. If I did, then you'd still be using shell scripts to install FreeBSD and wouldn't have a ports collection either since software is so easy to configure and compile for FreeBSD, right? :-) > I doubt many would want either of them. I found it very difficult to get > 1. advice on how much space each distribution would take to install > (which is not the same as final disk space) > 2. advice during or before installation on the size of packages, like > is it a few K or a few tens of megs. > Anything to assist here would be worthwhile. Unfortunately, like I said, this information isn't readily available or it would, indeed, be provided already. > Sure, as soon as I can I will, but isn't that a bit of a catch 22? Welcome to the world of free software! :) > where it is reasonably practical to do so. Tailoring everything to > experts is an easy trap to slip into. We're just starting to come out of Again, that's *never* been an attitude I've embraced, not even from the very beginning days of the project, and the reason that we have as many "creature comforts" as we do stems from the fact that it has *always* been a priority to provide such comforts, there are simply many many more items on the creature comfort wish-list than any of us have time to implement. :-( - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 18:41:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06188 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:41:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06181 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA25219; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:34:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Sue Blake , ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: <3223.897957854@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The only thing that really gets my goat is pretending that if it's not an > > issue for an expert then it won't be an issue to anyone else. > > I don't believe I've ever taken that attitude. If I did, then you'd I don't think Sue's comments that bothered you so were even directed at you. :-) Anyways, I think Sue's worried about nothing. :) If anyone ever tries to take the ability to install packages at install-time away, I suspect a number of these hard-core hackers that supposedly control FreeBSD would jump-up and complain. I know I would. :) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 19:27:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11443 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:27:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11433 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:27:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11563; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:27:32 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980616122727.43984@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:27:27 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> <3223.897957854@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3223.897957854@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 05:44:14PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 05:44:14PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The only thing that really gets my goat is pretending that if it's not an > > issue for an expert then it won't be an issue to anyone else. > > I don't believe I've ever taken that attitude. If I did, then you'd > still be using shell scripts to install FreeBSD and wouldn't have a > ports collection either since software is so easy to configure and > compile for FreeBSD, right? :-) Right. Why ruin that by removing packages. > > I doubt many would want either of them. I found it very difficult to get > > 1. advice on how much space each distribution would take to install > > (which is not the same as final disk space) > > 2. advice during or before installation on the size of packages, like > > is it a few K or a few tens of megs. > > Anything to assist here would be worthwhile. > > Unfortunately, like I said, this information isn't readily available > or it would, indeed, be provided already. OK then, no worries, it just needs documenting. I'll do it unless anyone beats me to it. First I'll install from a more recent CD to a too-small partition to see what running out of space it looks like to a newbie, and if it's not real clear what's going on, write it up. Then I'll spend a couple of hours reading man pages to work out how to write a one line script to list the packages on the CD and their sizes. That can go on a web page somewhere with the caution that many packages cause other packages to be installed, where to check for this info, what it looks like and how to proceed if you do run out of space. I could probably do something similar, but with more difficulty, for the various distributions. I'd have to work out by trial and error how much additional space they need for compiling, and say that the disk space estimates are very rough guides only, to the nearest gig or +/- 50% or something, but better than nothing. Then I can direct any hardware-challenged newbies about to do their first installation to read this info in addition to the Handbook info that suffices for Normals. Are there any obvious reasons why this wouldn't work? There must be some problems that I'm too inexperienced to see, if it hasn't been done already. If there are, I'll document them too :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 19:39:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12834 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TripleCrown.Aldridge.com (TripleCrown.Aldridge.com [209.113.58.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12807; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dlac@aldridge.com) Received: from aldridge.com (america.aldridge.com [209.113.55.1]) by TripleCrown.Aldridge.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA10507; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:39:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <34E7B37F.53BA40AF@aldridge.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:33:19 -0600 From: "David L. Aldridge" Organization: The Aldridge Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Classes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please pardon the crossposting, but maybe this will keep the next guy from being bitten. Ftp was dropping me at the same point in an mget and the ftpd pid was disappearing at the same time without a log entry. After searching for .core, standing on my head an scratching a lot, I finally remembered that the 2.2.6 encourages the use of classes. Yup. I had a file limit that was dropping the ftp transfer. I was logging *.* and getting no event recorded. Someone somewhere will probably want to put this on his/her list of todo. Regards Dave -- David L. Aldridge The Aldridge Company 281.368.0166 (fax: 281.368.0381) http://www.aldridge.com/ Powered by Pentium/FreeBSD/Apache - Because it works. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 19:42:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13789 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:42:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13766 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05219; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd005212; Tue Jun 16 02:34:20 1998 Message-ID: <3585D9A8.15FB7483@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:34:16 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: netatalk@umich.edu Subject: [patch] netatalk broken in 3.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3F54BC7E1CFBAE3959E2B600" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3F54BC7E1CFBAE3959E2B600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The netatalk port for FreeBSD doesn't work on FreeBSD because of an apparently gratuitous change in the 3.0 kernel. in 3.0 you need to use a correct AF_LINK sockaddr (sockaddr_dl) for setting a hardware multicast address. In most other systems including 2.2.x this is a AF_UNSPEC (as used by arp). this patch patches two files in the etc/atalkd directory of netatalk. can someone who knows how to fix ports commit it? (CC'd to netatalk list) julian (off to usenix) --------------3F54BC7E1CFBAE3959E2B600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="d1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="d1" Index: nbp.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/mod/umich/netatalk/etc/atalkd/nbp.c,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.3.2.1 retrieving revision 1.1.1.3.2.2 diff -c -r1.1.1.3.2.1 -r1.1.1.3.2.2 *** nbp.c 1998/01/10 00:09:18 1.1.1.3.2.1 --- nbp.c 1998/06/16 02:24:27 1.1.1.3.2.2 *************** *** 9,14 **** --- 9,17 ---- #include #include #include + #if ( __FreeBSD__ >= 3 ) + #include + #endif #include #include #include *************** *** 176,184 **** } bcopy( zone_mcast( zt->zt_name, zt->zt_len ), zt->zt_bcast, sizeof( ethermulti )); bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); bcopy( zt->zt_bcast, sa.sa_data, sizeof( ethermulti )); ! for ( iface = interfaces; iface; iface = iface->i_next ) { if (( iface->i_flags & IFACE_PHASE2 ) == 0 ) { continue; --- 179,201 ---- } bcopy( zone_mcast( zt->zt_name, zt->zt_len ), zt->zt_bcast, sizeof( ethermulti )); + #if ( __FreeBSD__ >= 3 ) + struct sockaddr_dl *dlp; + + /* configure multicast for this interface */ + bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); + dlp = (struct sockaddr_dl *)&sa; + dlp->sdl_len = sizeof(struct sockaddr_dl); + dlp->sdl_family = AF_LINK; + dlp->sdl_index = 0; + dlp->sdl_nlen = 0; + dlp->sdl_alen = 6; + dlp->sdl_slen = 0; + bcopy (zt->zt_bcast, LLADDR(dlp), sizeof( ethermulti )); + #else bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); bcopy( zt->zt_bcast, sa.sa_data, sizeof( ethermulti )); ! #endif for ( iface = interfaces; iface; iface = iface->i_next ) { if (( iface->i_flags & IFACE_PHASE2 ) == 0 ) { continue; Index: main.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/mod/umich/netatalk/etc/atalkd/main.c,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.3.2.3 retrieving revision 1.1.1.3.2.4 diff -c -r1.1.1.3.2.3 -r1.1.1.3.2.4 *** main.c 1996/10/11 01:50:34 1.1.1.3.2.3 --- main.c 1998/06/16 02:24:27 1.1.1.3.2.4 *************** *** 17,22 **** --- 17,25 ---- #include #include #include + #if ( __FreeBSD__ >= 3 ) + #include + #endif #include #include *************** *** 1146,1154 **** --- 1149,1171 ---- bootaddr( ciface ); } } else { + #if ( __FreeBSD__ >= 3 ) + struct sockaddr_dl *dlp; + /* configure multicast for this interface */ bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); + dlp = (struct sockaddr_dl *)&sa; + dlp->sdl_len = sizeof(struct sockaddr_dl); + dlp->sdl_family = AF_LINK; + dlp->sdl_index = 0; + dlp->sdl_nlen = 0; + dlp->sdl_alen = 6; + dlp->sdl_slen = 0; + bcopy (ethermulti, LLADDR(dlp), sizeof( ethermulti )); + #else + bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); bcopy( ethermulti, sa.sa_data, sizeof( ethermulti )); + #endif if ( ifconfig( iface->i_name, SIOCADDMULTI, &sa )) { syslog( LOG_ERR, "addmulti: %m" ); exit( 1 ); --------------3F54BC7E1CFBAE3959E2B600-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 19:46:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14698 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:46:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tok.qiv.com (PoqVDQopHH7aGHjy32/s2srOOGDE3c4X@tok.qiv.com [205.238.142.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14693 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:46:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdn@acp.qiv.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with UUCP id VAA24888; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:45:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01373; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:43:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:43:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Nelson To: Sue Blake cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Sue Blake wrote: ... >> Umm, Sue, I appreciate all that you do to help newbies, but I think > >Good deeds never stopped anyone from doing bad deeds :-) For what it's worth, this is my opinion. Jordan is correct in pointing out that FreeBSD is a volunteer effort. Those that do, pick the direction. I'm concerned about some of the directions FreeBSD may take, but on the other hand, I'm not contributing so it is not my place to complain. I am enjoying the effort of _many_ people with no cost but my time. Just a few years ago, we didn't have all the free alternatives we enjoy today. I'm more concerned about the clamor to make FreeBSD newbie friendly. I don't think Unix, of any flavor, is appropriate for a newbie who hasn't paid their dues and earned a basic understanding of the dirty underside of computers and operating systems. The nature of the problem Unix addresses is fundamentally more complex that what Windows/Dos/CPM, et.al., addressed and simply requires more to make it operate productively. Why shouldn't FreeBSD be pointed to experts only, if that's the direction FreeBSD goes? (FreeBSD, by the way, is the most friendly Unix I've used.) I'm worried that an effort to make FreeBSD "user friendly" would only cripple what I need to do. Elements of that are already creeping in. /usr/local/etc/rc.d, for example, that just annoys the snot out of me. But I understand why it is there, don't begrudge it and quietly "fix" it. You see, when I first came to Unix, no one gave a tinkers damn whether it was friendly or not. It was intended to do a job and I was expected to bring the skills to handle it. I didn't know any more than any newbie today. What I discovered, though, was that if I asked a reasonable question, the experts were more than happy to help -- much like you find here on the lists. The rest was up to me. Eventually, I learned. Frankly, I'm a little annoyed that many newcomers want the benefits of a free Unix OS but expect a sweet, gooey, wet M$ kiss to make all the effort go away. But, such is the world today. ... >Sure. Like I said, problems are not an issue at all. If they can't be >fixed right away, or at all, that's acceptable. We can document it to >protect the unprepared if necessary. Why protect the unprepared? That's almost an oxymoron. How can you create documents that most don't read? Since 2.0, I've found the docs more than adequate to get a production system up and running, so I'm a bit unsympathetic. >The only thing that really gets my goat is pretending that if it's not an >issue for an expert then it won't be an issue to anyone else. I haven't seen that at all. >I doubt many would want either of them. I found it very difficult to get >1. advice on how much space each distribution would take to install > (which is not the same as final disk space) How can you advise on something so variable? How do you measure it? 2 x *.gz size? >2. advice during or before installation on the size of packages, like > is it a few K or a few tens of megs. And what good would that do when the person installing has no idea of how much space is available? Sort out which filesystems all of it uses and report on each? Sounds like you'ld rather all of us have to sit there answering questions than have an automated install. >Anything to assist here would be worthwhile. I guess definition of "assist" is probably the question. >I also took objection to the idea that packages should not be available >during installation. That would cut out freebsd's accessibility to a lot >of newbies. My one concern was that it sounded like that didn't matter to >anyone. Why would you object? I'm happy packages are available at all. Have you worked with Solaris? >> about it. If you want it fixed, FIX IT! > >Sure, as soon as I can I will, but isn't that a bit of a catch 22? Well, therein lies the nub. If you want any OS to do what you want, you have to bring enough to the party; you have to learn how to do it. There's no catch22 at all. I love to cook. How can you be a good cook unless you pay your dues in front of the stove? >Obviously I don't feel frustrated about freebsd as I did back then. If >others feel like that now, nobody will get to see their anger, they'll >just drift away bad-mouthing freebsd. We have to avoid that happening >where it is reasonably practical to do so. Tailoring everything to >experts is an easy trap to slip into. We're just starting to come out of >that trap and when I think I see people slipping back into it it scares >the bejeebers outa me. Why does everything have to be tailored to the lowest common denominator? Is it a bad thing that a _good_ tool requires more than a _poor_ tool? >> That's the lovely thing about free software - you have that option and >> are always encouraged to exercise it, no matter who you are, if it's >> something you really really want. If you're not motivated enough to >> gain the skills necessary to do it, then I guess you didn't want the >> feature that much after all, did ya? :-) > >I have shown many sides, but I don't think I have ever shown lack of >motivation. Hand over the tardis and I'll shut up and fix it :-) Sue, I think you have shown a little lack of motivation. A free OS is a volunteer effort that is shaped by those who contribute. No one has any obligation to hand over anything. I think we should be thankful for what we have. If we can't contribute, we shouldn't complain. -- Jay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 19:52:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15582 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:52:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15574 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05442; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd005440; Tue Jun 16 02:42:50 1998 Message-ID: <3585DBA7.FF6D5DF@whistle.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:42:47 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, netatalk@umich.edu Subject: [patch] fixed fix for netatalk in freebsd 3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------237C228A31DFF4F5ABD322C" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------237C228A31DFF4F5ABD322C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oops this one compiles... --------------237C228A31DFF4F5ABD322C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="d1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="d1" Index: main.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/mod/umich/netatalk/etc/atalkd/main.c,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.3.2.3 retrieving revision 1.1.1.3.2.4 diff -c -r1.1.1.3.2.3 -r1.1.1.3.2.4 *** main.c 1996/10/11 01:50:34 1.1.1.3.2.3 --- main.c 1998/06/16 02:24:27 1.1.1.3.2.4 *************** *** 17,22 **** --- 17,25 ---- #include #include #include + #if ( __FreeBSD__ >= 3 ) + #include + #endif #include #include *************** *** 1146,1154 **** --- 1149,1171 ---- bootaddr( ciface ); } } else { + #if ( __FreeBSD__ >= 3 ) + struct sockaddr_dl *dlp; + /* configure multicast for this interface */ bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); + dlp = (struct sockaddr_dl *)&sa; + dlp->sdl_len = sizeof(struct sockaddr_dl); + dlp->sdl_family = AF_LINK; + dlp->sdl_index = 0; + dlp->sdl_nlen = 0; + dlp->sdl_alen = 6; + dlp->sdl_slen = 0; + bcopy (ethermulti, LLADDR(dlp), sizeof( ethermulti )); + #else + bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); bcopy( ethermulti, sa.sa_data, sizeof( ethermulti )); + #endif if ( ifconfig( iface->i_name, SIOCADDMULTI, &sa )) { syslog( LOG_ERR, "addmulti: %m" ); exit( 1 ); Index: nbp.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/mod/umich/netatalk/etc/atalkd/nbp.c,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.3.2.1 retrieving revision 1.1.1.3.2.3 diff -c -r1.1.1.3.2.1 -r1.1.1.3.2.3 *** nbp.c 1998/01/10 00:09:18 1.1.1.3.2.1 --- nbp.c 1998/06/16 02:39:03 1.1.1.3.2.3 *************** *** 9,14 **** --- 9,17 ---- #include #include #include + #if ( __FreeBSD__ >= 3 ) + #include + #endif #include #include #include *************** *** 176,184 **** } bcopy( zone_mcast( zt->zt_name, zt->zt_len ), zt->zt_bcast, sizeof( ethermulti )); bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); bcopy( zt->zt_bcast, sa.sa_data, sizeof( ethermulti )); ! for ( iface = interfaces; iface; iface = iface->i_next ) { if (( iface->i_flags & IFACE_PHASE2 ) == 0 ) { continue; --- 179,203 ---- } bcopy( zone_mcast( zt->zt_name, zt->zt_len ), zt->zt_bcast, sizeof( ethermulti )); + #if ( __FreeBSD__ >= 3 ) + { + struct sockaddr_dl *dlp; + + /* configure multicast for this interface */ + bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); + dlp = (struct sockaddr_dl *)&sa; + dlp->sdl_len = sizeof(struct sockaddr_dl); + dlp->sdl_family = AF_LINK; + dlp->sdl_index = 0; + dlp->sdl_nlen = 0; + dlp->sdl_alen = 6; + dlp->sdl_slen = 0; + bcopy (zt->zt_bcast, LLADDR(dlp), sizeof( ethermulti )); + } + #else bzero( &sa, sizeof( struct sockaddr )); bcopy( zt->zt_bcast, sa.sa_data, sizeof( ethermulti )); ! #endif for ( iface = interfaces; iface; iface = iface->i_next ) { if (( iface->i_flags & IFACE_PHASE2 ) == 0 ) { continue; --------------237C228A31DFF4F5ABD322C-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 20:09:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17983 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17977 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:09:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11701; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:08:51 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980616130848.29152@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:08:48 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Jay Nelson Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Jay Nelson on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:43:43PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thank you, Jay, you illustrated my point more clearly than any further argument could achieve. Now if you'll excuse me I've got work to do. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 20:37:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22771 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (metriclient-2.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22754 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:37:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA02628 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:37:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) X-Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19351 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:58:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hartong@erols.com) X-Received: from sheba (207-172-44-68.s68.tnt3.brd.erols.com [207.172.44.68]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04054 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: "Hartong" From: "Hartong" To: "Doug White" Subject: Re: ATAPI CD ROM Installation Failure on BSD 2.2.6 (fwd) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:55:46 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd989f$f7de3980$0200000a@sheba> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Doug.... Thanks for the feedback. To add fuel to the fire. :-) I did a DOS partition installation, so have FreeBSD up and running. I had to comment out the second IDE controller to bypass the CD-ROM. The installation went like clockwork after that. Kudo's are due to the installation team programmers. It is equally good, if not better, than the RedHat and Slackware installation programs. I have a minimal DOS 6.0 installation in wds01a (128M) and a complete FreeBSD installation in wds02a (908M). Once installed, I created a custom kernel, this time including the second IDE controller, and including the ATAPI source code directives. Everything compiled perfectly and I installed as the primary boot kernel. Now for the "It's Unix magic..." When booting I get the same "ATAPI1.O: INVALID COMMAND PHASE, IREASON=0xd8, STATUS=d8, ERROR=d8" error message BUT the boot process continues with no hang-up. I can mount and dismount the CD-ROM to my hearts content any Walnut Creek 9660 format disk I've been able to throw at it. > >Sure; the driver is saying "the drive is not in the phase I expected it >to be in". Sort of "what the hell does it think it's doing?" > >More interestingly, note that the 'ireason', 'status' and 'error' >values are *all* 0xd8. This implies that there's a really basic >problem talking to the drive. > >My suspicions would tend to suggest timing problems of some sort; >either we are not giving the drive enough time to behave, or perhaps >the user is overclocking and their IDE controller isn't playing the >game. Seeing the full set of wd* probe messages would be useful, >especially if there are other devices involved. Also, knowing the set >of actions leading to the fault would help. The wd* probe messages I get are a successful probe on wd0, returning the drive type (takes a while 5-15 seconds), followed by a probe on wd1. The probe returns the drive type (correctly NEC 273) followed by the APAPI1.0 error code. Nothing else appears different between an installation boot directly from the CD-ROM and from the custom kernel I've built. (except when booting from the installation CD the system hangs in the "Probing devices.. please wait" screen and doesn't want to come out of it. ) As you requested, here is the step by step actions which lead to the hang on installation. 1. Select BIOS to boot from CD first. 2. Insert CD (Walnut Creek Disk 1) into Drive 3. Boot system 4. System boots using floppy image kernel from Disk (jkh kernel) 5. Customization Screen comes up- select novice option 6. Under storage-Remove all controllers except floppy and IDE 1 and IDE 2 7. Under Network- Remove all Ethernet cards except NE2000- adjust NE2000 to correct base address for system 8. Remove lpt1 and all other controllers except serial 1 and 2. 9. Remove microsoft bus mouse 10. Save new configuration, boot continues until the blue screen of death. Like I said what is screwy is the custom kernel I that boots I created by hand is identical to the kernel I created using the customization screen! Go figure! I really would like to help and try and figure out why- it's nice having a system that works, but I'd like to try and make it work right (error messages ALWAYS bug me). If you can let me know what additional detail would help, or any thing you'd like me to try, I'll gladly provide. (A whole lot easier to do with access to a compiler!) I'm running a relatively plain Jane machine- Dell Dimension 120 MHz Pentium, Quantum 1.0 GB HD, the NEC 273 CD-ROM, Number Nine GCS 64 video card, US Robotics Sportser 28.8 Modem, a no name NE 2000 clone and a SoundBlaster 16 sound card. I've not tried compiling in the sound stuff at this time- I figure one adventure at a time is enough. FWIW, my Unix experience is limited to old BSD 4.2 work (about 15 years ago, some earlier FreeBSD (2.0), Linux, and HP 9.0x and 10.x work- primarily as a part time sys admin) Thanks in advance.... Regds Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 22:06:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA11013 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from azimov.videotron.ca (ppp102.223.mmtl.videotron.net [207.96.223.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10916 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sepotvin@videotron.ca) Received: from videotron.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by azimov.videotron.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03254; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:07:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sepotvin@videotron.ca) Message-ID: <3585FD91.4F0D021A@videotron.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:07:29 -0400 From: "Stephane E. Potvin" Organization: IBM Canada Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hartong CC: Doug White , Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATAPI CD ROM Installation Failure on BSD 2.2.6 (fwd) References: <01bd989f$f7de3980$0200000a@sheba> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hartong wrote: > > Hi Doug.... > > Thanks for the feedback. > > To add fuel to the fire. :-) I did a DOS partition installation, so have > FreeBSD up and running. I had to comment out the second IDE controller to > bypass the CD-ROM. The installation went like clockwork after that. Kudo's > are due to the installation team programmers. It is equally good, if not > better, than the RedHat and Slackware installation programs. I have a > minimal DOS 6.0 installation in wds01a (128M) and a complete FreeBSD > installation in wds02a (908M). > > Once installed, I created a custom kernel, this time including the second > IDE controller, and including the ATAPI source code directives. Everything > compiled perfectly and I installed as the primary boot kernel. Now for the > "It's Unix magic..." When booting I get the same "ATAPI1.O: INVALID COMMAND > PHASE, IREASON=0xd8, STATUS=d8, ERROR=d8" > error message BUT the boot process continues with no hang-up. I can mount > and dismount the CD-ROM to my hearts content any Walnut Creek 9660 format > disk I've been able to throw at it. > [SNIP] I've got the following warning since I installed the same disk. Though I'm using current which doesn't seem to be the case with you. wdc1: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, iordy atapi1.1: unknown phase It never affected my use of the drive so I just ignore it. I used to have a patch to remove the warning (I was not able to find the specs of the drive at the time so I just ignored the state...) but I lost it in a disk crash and was too busy (well... let's say it was more laziness :) to do it again. If some ATAPI/CD-ROM guru want to have more information about the phase I can gladly give the information. Regards, Stephane To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 22:39:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19822 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:39:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA19800 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:39:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA04712; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:38:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Sue Blake cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > I also took objection to the idea that packages should not be available > during installation. That would cut out freebsd's accessibility to a lot > of newbies. My one concern was that it sounded like that didn't matter to > anyone. I don't understand why you think "newbies" can't install packages except in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like sysinstall. I still maintain that package installation is orthogonal to installation and belongs elsewhere -- namely, in system *configuration*, which can be done once the OS is safely installed. As evidence, I submit the spate of recent complaints about sysinstall's handling of package installation. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 23:47:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03408 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:47:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03385 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA12572; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:47:16 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980616164712.56903@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:47:13 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: ben@rosengart.com Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 01:38:41AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 01:38:41AM -0400, Snob Art Genre wrote: > On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > > I also took objection to the idea that packages should not be available > > during installation. That would cut out freebsd's accessibility to a lot > > of newbies. My one concern was that it sounded like that didn't matter to > > anyone. > > I don't understand why you think "newbies" can't install packages except > in sysinstall. Because they can't tell what's in the operating system and what's in packages. They have to do it all at the same time or they'll think something's missing. I'm reminded of the guy who boasted in front of his mates "I tried FreeBSD but went back to Linux because Linux has a command-history" :-) But there are others who we wouldn't want to lose. > Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > sysinstall. Gee, yes, I tried that once, had forgotten all about it. For me, pkg_add is easier to remember. Again, I have the same objections as above, but here's a possibility. If, by default, the installation completed and immediately threw the user into pkg_manage, would that give you the separation you want? Of course people who didn't want to use it would figure out how to get out of it, while those who couldn't distinguish between the two sections would carry on blissfully with that next step "of the installation". Or would you want people to fiddle around at the prompt for a while to check a few things out? Well I wouldn't have a clue what to check out before adding packages, and I have been using FreeBSD for a while. As it is, you are in a position to decline the packages that are offered during installation if you want, so you must only be referring to difficulties for others. I don't know whether I am capable of understanding whatever it is that concerns you, but concerns can be addressed in many ways. There is enough flexibility already to give everyone the options they need. No need I can see to take options away. The default behaviour shouldn't endanger, confuse, or unnecessarily alienate anyone, and I believe that can be achieved (if it isn't already) if we don't start basing modifications on concepts of rewards, punishments, and paying dues. > I still maintain that package installation is orthogonal to installation > and belongs elsewhere -- namely, in system *configuration*, which can be > done once the OS is safely installed. You're probably right. In my mind, the whole thing is still "installation". Make it do anything you like; I only want to "install" once, though. Right after installation I want to have bash, X, lynx, an editor that is easy to use, a few little essentials. Extra apps like Netscape, games, perl, sendmail, I expect be able to install these later. Oh, what's that? Games, perl and sendmail are part of the operating system? Umm... right... > As evidence, I submit the spate of recent complaints about sysinstall's > handling of package installation. I'm not up on those. Maybe they would affect my viewpoint, I can't tell. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jun 15 23:50:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA04118 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:50:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nl-mail-dmz.cmg-gecis.nl (nl-mail-dmz.cmg-gecis.nl [195.109.155.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04079; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:50:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl) Received: from nl-amv-mail01.atf.cmg.nl (10.16.66.200) by nl-mail-dmz.cmg-gecis.nl (Integralis SMTPRS 1.51) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:50:13 +0200 Received: from MCR2 by nl-amv-mail01.atf.cmg.nl with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1458.49) id M99J6RVV; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:49:48 +0200 Message-Id: <35861742.49D8B981@cmg.nl> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:57:06 +0200 From: Mike Crawfurd Organization: CMG Advanced Technologies Rotterdam X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3c562 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear guru's, I've lookup for support in combo drivers for pccards; with no success, but I've found support in Linux kernel & software Is there maybe a really friendly hacker that can implement the network support for the 3c562 in a driver ? -- TIA & TTUL, Mike Crawfurd. Mike Crawfurd Telephone. (+31) 10 253 7000 CMG Advanced Technologies Industries Telefax. (+31) 10 253 7033 Kralingseweg 241, 3062 CE Rotterdam Mobile. (+31) 65 534 7574 The Netherlands Email. mike.crawfurd@cmg.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 00:43:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA13691 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:43:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13678 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04554; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Jay Nelson cc: Sue Blake , ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:43:43 CDT." Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:42:34 -0700 Message-ID: <4550.897982954@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm more concerned about the clamor to make FreeBSD newbie friendly. I > don't think Unix, of any flavor, is appropriate for a newbie who > hasn't paid their dues and earned a basic understanding of the dirty Erm, now I'm going to have to jump in on the other side of the argument. :-) Arguing that Unix shouldn't be user-friendly or that an expert-only FreeBSD could be good or desirable is an argument you're only doomed to lose since it's ultimately the users who will determine the size and shape of this OS, and it's the natural tendency of every user to want to make repetetive or complex tasks easier. Saying that it's somehow "wrong" to evolve the system along these lines is like saying that we should all still be relying on horses for transportation because automobiles pollute the air. Don't confuse flaws in the implementation for flaws in the ideal. :-) FreeBSD *will* evolve, and user-friendliness is just one of the many directions in which we'll see changes made. If those changes are well thought-out and do not _supplant_ existing features of the system, then we will have the best of all possible worlds, something which Win95 can never have since there's nothing worth-while under the hood, so to speak. If such evolution comes without careful thought and design then of course we'll be a lot worse off, but are changes to the VM system or device drivers any different in that respect? A well done UI "front end farm" which leverages off of existing tools and provides easy configuration for a wide variety of system services would be more than possible without seeking to replace "the old ways" in any way (visualize multiple roads to Rome rather than one road replacing another :). If most attempts to provide decent front-ends to all these various tasks in Unix have been rather unsuccessful, I think it's largely because the designers didn't approach the problem with the same zest that they may have approached, say, the task of writing the ultimate ethernet card driver or a 3D game. It's just not really all that "cool" to write user front-ends and, to really do it right, you have to be seriously into the idea of designing a comprehensive and highly extensible framework from the ground up. You also need to be very much in-touch with what the users are really asking for vs what you think it might be fun to design (though, hopefully, the two ideas are not entirely mutually exclusive :) and you need to have a fairly good grasp of human factors and good UI design, knowing just which parts of Unix make good front-end targets and which ones simply _don't_. You also say you don't like /usr/local/etc/rc.d, for example, but don't indicate a better way that add-on packages for FreeBSD (and there are now well over 1,000 of them) can add themselves to the startup sequence, if necessary. The need is there and it's not even hard to imagine a point in time where even the most Exalted Guru had a very hard time keeping his /etc/rc.local file up to date if it's your suggestion that everything simply be tossed in there, "the old way." Evolution will have its way, and the only item open to question is whether its progress is deliberate or simply left to chance. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 00:59:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA16958 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA16946 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:59:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (sunw131 [134.32.45.97]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA23179 ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:58:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by sunw131.oslo.Geco-Prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA00401; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:58:47 +0200 To: Peter Wemm Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Checksum mismatch References: <199806151136.TAA26670@spinner.netplex.com.au> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 16 Jun 1998 09:58:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: Peter Wemm's message of Mon, 15 Jun 1998 19:36:06 +0800 Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm writes: > Dag-Erling Coidan Sm?rgrav wrote: > > I've been getting a lot of checksum mismatches while cvsupping lately, > > most of them on Makefiles, but also some on sgml and troff files. Is > > anybody else seeing this? > You need to update your cvsup to version 15.4.. Ah, yes. Thought that might be the problem, but I couldn't see any mention in the logs of falling back to an older protocol version, so I assumed I was running the right version (it's not my box, I just happen to have root access on it :P) -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 01:02:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17457 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:02:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17263 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04725; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: ben@rosengart.com cc: Sue Blake , Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:38:41 EDT." Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:00:25 -0700 Message-ID: <4721.897984025@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > sysinstall. What's pkg_manage? > I still maintain that package installation is orthogonal to installation > and belongs elsewhere -- namely, in system *configuration*, which can be > done once the OS is safely installed. As evidence, I submit the spate I await the details and first implementation of your design, oh maintaining one. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 01:07:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA18807 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:07:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18760 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:07:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id EAA101128; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:06:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980616075807.13931@welearn.com.au> References: ; from Snob Art Genre on Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 12:41:45PM -0400 <199806101519.IAA22143@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:10:18 -0400 To: Sue Blake , ben@rosengart.com From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? Cc: Darren Reed , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:58 AM +1000 6/16/98, Sue Blake wrote: >On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 12:41:45PM -0400, Snob Art Genre wrote: > >> Why is package installation in the install anyway? It's just as easily >> done when the system is up. Same with a lot of the configuration stuff >> in the install, don't you think someone setting a system up as a router >> can do it by hand? > > It's there for us newbies whose backs you're talking behind here :-) > Hehe, not quite hidden. > > So what if you guys have a few minor inconveniences. You can deal with > them. And you have options. A newbie installing freebsd to learn unix > has few options. As it happens, I'm also a newbee-to-freebsd. When it comes to computing per se I'm a pretty old bee, but last week was my first attempt to do a freebsd install of my own. I'll try to keep this a bit short for now. I'd like to think that once I get more familiar with freebsd then I'll take the time to try and write some improvements to the install process based on what frustrated me. Of course, once I get these two systems going I'll probably be much more interested in working in other areas instead of redoing perfectly-good installs just to test out various ideas for the install process itself... Wrt to packages, I'd make a slightly different claim than Sue does. I do think the packages should be there for the benefit of the newbie users, but I don't think *all* of them need to be shown at install time. In fact, I think it's counterproductive to show them all during the initial install. I ended up going thru the entire list, adding all kinds of things just because "oh, that looks interesting", or "oh, yeah, I've heard of that package, and always wanted to try it out". My first install was done over the net so I didn't run into the problem with the cd's, but still I would have been better off if I hadn't been distracted by so many choices while I'm just trying an initial install. Perhaps the initial install should just show a list of "the top 25" ports -- just things people are most likely need "right away". Things like perl5, bash, cvsup (and thus modula3), and lynx. Tell users that for everything else they can run sysinstall after they've done their first reboot, but don't drop them into that choice during the initial install. The other experience I had (as a newbie) was that I decided to do my XFree config right in the initial install. I don't know quite what I did wrong, but my whole machine just went away at that point. After trying a number of things (including alt-function keys, I believe), I finally had to turn the machine off. By doing that I had exitted in the middle of the initial install, and so I ended up redoing the entire thing (all the way back to newfs-ing) simply because I didn't know what had and had not been done. Still, I don't want to seem like I'm carping too much here. In these past two weeks I have also been doing my first investigations of WindowsNT, and I've found that much more irritating than anything with FreeBSD. And *that's* with a box that came with WinNT already installed and running, compared to doing a freebsd install from scratch. While I ran into problems with both systems because I was new to them, by the time I worked my way thru those problems on FreeBSD I felt I had learned something and had a better idea of how FreeBSD worked. While I also solved problems under my WinNT install, it was more like winning the lottery. If you try enough things it will eventually work, but I never felt like I was getting "more comfortable" with how the pieces of the system fit together. Well, I'm determined to not right a book here, so I better head home or I'll just keep writing. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 01:17:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21380 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21326 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 01:17:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id EAA24734; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:17:07 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:20:51 -0400 To: ben@rosengart.com, Sue Blake From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:38 AM -0400 6/16/98, Snob Art Genre wrote: >On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > >> I also took objection to the idea that packages should not be available >> during installation. That would cut out freebsd's accessibility to a lot >> of newbies. My one concern was that it sounded like that didn't matter to >> anyone. > > I don't understand why you think "newbies" can't install packages except > in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > sysinstall. Some packages are useful to have right away. I've done nearly a dozen reinstalls in the past few days. The first time I installed every package which looked remotely interesting, and in hindsight thought that was stupid. However, in a later install I installed *none* of the packages, and immediately regretted that decision too. I wanted to create initial accounts with a bash shell, for instance, but that doesn't work great if you didn't install bash. And the first thing after rebooting I ftp a tar-file of various scripts I'm used to using, but some of them don't work because I don't have perl5 installed yet. I think it's good to have a short list of "highly desirable" packages in a list right at install time, but leave the full list for after the user gets past that first reboot. And by having an initial short list, we could perhaps make sure that all packages on that short list are on the first CD-ROM (the CD a user boots off to do an install). Just my thoughts, after my first-ever installs of FreeBSD... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 02:40:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04067 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:40:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA04047 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id LAA20792 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:40:39 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:34:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: <4721.897984025@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > > sysinstall. > > What's pkg_manage? Good question. It is a directory on our 3.0-SNAP systems. Sounds interesting though. Nick STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 02:57:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA06673 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from main.piter.net (main.piter.net [193.124.71.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA06664 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 02:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyril@main.piter.net) Received: (from cyril@localhost) by main.piter.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25365 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:59:49 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from cyril) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:59:49 +0400 (MSD) From: "Cyril A. Vechera" Message-Id: <199806160959.NAA25365@main.piter.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: traffic shaper Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi I've released new version 2.01 of ipltd - user-mode traffic shaper for FreeBSD with ipfw and divert on. You can find it in ftp.freebsd.org incoming - ipltd_v2.01.tgz Here is some stuff from README ipltd - IP traffic bandwidth shaping/limiting daemon. -l syslog a message if some bytes or packets will be rejected -s silently reject packets, by default ipltd sends ICMP SOURCE_QUENCH to sender to correct transmittion rate -o enebles preventing overflow, so if you specified bytes limit 10000, it can pass 11000 bytes in firest cycle, and only 9000 bytes in second cycle -g cycles enables gathering of unused limit capacity. cycles is the number of cycles, after wich ipltd will reset gathered traffic stock -b bytes bytes limit per cycle clock -p packets packets limit per cycle clock -B bytes buffer space in bytes -P packets buffer space in packets port divert port from which we accept packets to be limited ipltd should work in link with ipfw or some other kernel mechanizm which allows to divert some packets. With ipfw you can limit traffic on interfaces, ip-addresses, tcp or udp ports. Every ipltd-deamon can serve only ONE divert port. So, if you want to limit another link, you should run another deamon on another divert port. SIGHUP - reload options from configuration file. SIGALRM - don't use it. Sincerely your, Cyril A. Vechera email:cyril@piter.net --------- http://sply.piter.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 03:07:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:07:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gateway.blueberry.co.uk (gateway.blueberry.co.uk [195.153.48.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08253 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keith@blueberry.co.uk) Received: from intranet.internal.blueberry.co.uk (intranet.internal.blueberry.co.uk [10.0.0.2]) by gateway.blueberry.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21651; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:30:51 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from keith@blueberry.co.uk) Received: (from keith@localhost) by intranet.internal.blueberry.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27962; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:32:07 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from keith) Message-ID: <19980616103207.10012@blueberry.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:32:07 +0100 From: Keith Jones To: Jay Nelson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Jay Nelson on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:43:43PM -0500 Organization: Blueberry New Media Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:43:43PM -0500, Jay Nelson wrote: > Okay. When Unix was dreamed up it didn't have a nice pretty interface and everything had to be done by hand using the CLI. If you didn't know everything about the ins and the outs of the OS, well then, you damn well learned, because you weren't spoiled by things like GUIs and packages and install scripts and makefiles or anything more than the basic shell and a few binaries. WAKE UP, THIS IS 1998. PEOPLE DO NOT USE PUNCHCARDS ANYMORE. WE HAVE HOME COMPUTERS NOW. IN FACT, WE'VE HAD THEM FOR SOME TIME. Tell me, if you'd been born at the same time last century would you have disapproved of the use of electricity? I know you may not like it, Jay, but times change. The computer userbase is just a smidgeon larger than it was back in 1980 - FWIW, a long time before anything Unix-like entered the home computer. Unlike twenty years ago, a lot of people who use computers today are _not_ experts. Sure, they haven't contributed anything to this project at this time. (Yet.) It doesn't stop them from having an _opinion_. And it won't stop _you_ from using your box much the same as you always have. Leave the newbies to their GUIs, they'll get curious about what's under the bonnet soon enough. After all, today's newbies are tomorrow's contributors. Keith -- v Keith Jones Systems Manager, Blueberry New Media Ltd. v | Postal Mail: 2/10 Harbour Yard, Chelsea Harbour, LONDON, UK. SW10 0XD | | Telephone: +44 (0)171 351 3313 Fax: +44 (0)171 351 2476 | ^ Email: Keith.Jones@blueberry.co.uk WWW: http://www.blueberry.co.uk/ ^ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 03:19:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA10648 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:19:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA10642 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:19:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id MAA22268; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:19:01 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:12:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Garance A Drosihn cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan, I think that last paragraph should be on a list of quotes of users on the FreeBSD home pages. >... > Still, I don't want to seem like I'm carping too much here. In these > past two weeks I have also been doing my first investigations of > WindowsNT, and I've found that much more irritating than anything > with FreeBSD. And *that's* with a box that came with WinNT already > installed and running, compared to doing a freebsd install from > scratch. While I ran into problems with both systems because I was > new to them, by the time I worked my way thru those problems on > FreeBSD I felt I had learned something and had a better idea of how > FreeBSD worked. While I also solved problems under my WinNT install, > it was more like winning the lottery. If you try enough things it > will eventually work, but I never felt like I was getting "more > comfortable" with how the pieces of the system fit together. >... > Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu > Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu > Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 04:14:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17991 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:14:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hwcn.org (ac199@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA17986 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:14:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@hwcn.org) Received: from localhost (ac199@localhost) by hwcn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA04119; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Sue Blake cc: ben@rosengart.com, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: <19980616164712.56903@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > > sysinstall. > > Gee, yes, I tried that once, had forgotten all about it. > For me, pkg_add is easier to remember. Can anyone say "pib"? Most newbies, all-so-concerned with running having a GUI, should find that the easiest to remember of all. :) -- Outnumbered? Maybe. Outspoken? Never! tIM...HOEk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 04:55:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:55:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22869 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:55:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA05446; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Nick Hibma cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:34:26 +0200." Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:54:53 -0700 Message-ID: <5443.897998093@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Good question. It is a directory on our 3.0-SNAP systems. Sounds > interesting though. You sure? I more seem to recall pkg_manage dying at least a year ago. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 04:56:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23102 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:56:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) Received: from gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.30.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA25500 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA04169 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:56:10 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:56:10 +0200 (MEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199806161156.NAA04169@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: robustness against 'host unreachable packets' Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I posted a message in -questions today about a problem had with a FreeBSD (2.2.5) system acting as X server for a HP Mentor Graphics application. The user was bugged by sporadic disruption of the X session and since there were no outer signs of malfunction either the client or the server I started a tcpdump yesterday evening logging all pakets originating and destined to either hosts. This morning my colleague called me up again telling it just happened again. I looked into my logs and found that right at that time the FreeBSD machine received a packet from a third host which was looking like that: 8:28:03.151214 monk.6000 > hp.1327: P 151805:151837(32) ack 661157 win 17520 ( DF) 08:28:03.152081 arp who-has monk tell acc3df.physik.rwth-aachen.de 08:28:03.152336 arp reply monk is-at 0:40:95:24:d5:9b 08:28:03.152780 acc3df.physik.rwth-aachen.de > monk: icmp: host hp unreachable 08:28:03.163115 monk.6000 > hp.1327: P 151837:151869(32) ack 661157 win 17520 ( DF) 08:28:03.167881 hp.1327 > monk.6000: . ack 151869 win 7776 08:28:03.172922 monk.6000 > hp.1327: P 151869:151901(32) ack 661157 win 17520 ( DF) Further investigation revealed that said host was happily firing other icmp host unreachable packets to other hosts phantasizing unreachable connections. Well, the infamous 'NT sniper bug' came to mind. The host in question was a Win3.11 host with probably a very old MS TCP/IP stack. I was able to log a bunch of other icmp host unreachable packets originating from that host. Since that host is out of reach of my administration it seems hard to convince network admin colleagues to take this host from the net and that this host is doing something malign resp. beyond RFC or specs. So I will put it here to discussion especially because earlier mail I collected in '95 and '96 stated (Free)BSD being more immune against this kind of malfunction put at present it looks like FreeBSD being especially sensitive against these packets. At least they lead to immediate disconnection of the X and rlogin session in that particular case. I'm appending that old sniper bug emails again. -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de |From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Mon Jun 5 21:40:47 1995 |Received: from freefall.cdrom.com (freefall.cdrom.com [192.216.222.4]) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA21988 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 1995 21:40:45 +0200 |Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) | by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA23040 | ; Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:27:44 -0700 |Received: (from majordom@localhost) | by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA23025 | for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:27:41 -0700 |Received: from seraph.uunet.ca (uunet.ca [142.77.1.254]) | by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA23018 | for ; Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:27:39 -0700 |Received: from datads by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <173841-8>; Mon, 5 Jun 1995 15:29:23 -0400 |Subject: Re: I call it the "NT sniper bug". |To: hackers@freebsd.org |Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 14:35:07 -0400 |From: Randall Becker |In-Reply-To: <199506041413.OAA00764@fathergoose.net6c.io.org>; from "Ken Wong" at Jun 4, 95 10:13 am |X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] |Message-ID: <9506051435.aa19776@vulcan.datadesign.com> |Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org |Precedence: bulk |Status: OR | |It sounds to me like the problem is at a really really low level in the |NT TCP/IP stack where packets not destined for the NT are somehow being |passed (i.e. the destination MAC address is being ignored and all packets |are being processed by the NT stack). As the packets are passed up the |stack, they will be recognized as not being for the NT's IP address. The |routing table will be consulted (as it would for, say, the loop-back), and |since the NT is not acting as a router (i.e., no appropriate routing |table entries), the message will generate the experienced ICMP host |unreachable messages. | |Hope this helps, | |Regards, | |Randy | |> From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sat Jun 3 23:39:56 1995 |> Message-Id: |> From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) |> Subject: I call it the "NT sniper bug". (fwd) |> To: hackers@freebsd.org |> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 17:35:37 -0700 (PDT) |> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] |> Content-Type: text |> Content-Length: 3856 |> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org |> Precedence: bulk |> |> Just say no.. |> I'm sure we might all bare this one in mind |> |> I bet we'll hear about it sometime |> |> |> > |> > Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 15:05:06 -0400 |> > Forwarded-by: bostic@CS.Berkeley.EDU (Keith Bostic) |> > Subject: I call it the "NT sniper bug". |> > |> > Forwarded-by: matthew green |> > Forwarded-by: Richard Michael Todd |> > Forwarded-by: randy@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randall E. Cotton) |> > |> > langner@seufert.de (Ernst Langner) writes: |> > |> > > In our network I've sometimes seen the ICMP Message "host unreachable". |> > > It was generated by a PC running Windows NT 3.5. There was trafic between |> > > two stations e.g. two sun workstations. The NT PC sends the ICMP message |> > > to one of the sun stations unmotivated. Such messages are normaly |> > > generated by gateways, I can't find any reason for a station in a LAN |> > > environment to generate such a message. It seems to be a bug. The sun |> > > workstation ignores this ICMP message. But we are using some X terminals |> > > too. They believe what the message says and break down a session. |> > |> > YES, YES, YES! |> > |> > I just recently saw this here at University of Illinois, Urbana/Champaign. |> > I call it the "NT sniper bug". A UNIX software distribution process |> > between subnets in different buildings was consistently and inexplicably |> > failing at what appeared to be random times. Analysis of the traffic |> > (Network General Sniffer) showed the cut connections were due to an ICMP |> > type 3 (Destination Unreachable) code 1 (Host Unreachable) packet. |> > According to the ICMP spec (RFC792), such packets may only be sent from |> > routers. I assumed the source was indeed a router and perhaps there was |> > a problem with the network in the other building. When I learned it was |> > a PC, I was intrigued to say the least. |> > |> > After travelling to the other building, tracking down the offending |> > machine and seeing that all it was running was NT, I didn't even |> > believe my eyes at first ("gotta be an IP address conflict", I said to |> > myself, "something else has got to be the culprit"). But thorough |> > testing (again, with a Sniffer) prooved it beyond any doubt... |> > |> > Every once in a while at what appeared to be random intervals, this |> > machine was choosing an apparently arbitrary IP packet on the Ethernet |> > (regardless of its addressed destination) and generating an ICMP host |> > unreachable error packet to its source, dutifully including the first |> > portion of the victim packet. |> > |> > This bug is truly subtle and insidious. It's as if NT, disguised as an |> > innocent user-friendly operating system, is surreptitiously playing |> > "network sniper", firing off single-packet shots that can trash |> > arbitrary TCP connections present on or passing through the immediately |> > attached net. I bet most people that have it don't even know it. |> > |> > By the way, the reason why it must be a bug is threefold: |> > |> > First of all, NT shouldn't even be *aware* of traffic that isn't |> > addressed to it. |> my own theory is that the host being shot at is brave enough to |> have sent out a 'arp request' as it's own arp table entry |> for the other machine had just timed out... [JRE] |> hmm wonder if uSoft want to make all other machines appear unreliable :) |> |> > Secondly, any such packet that errantly makes it to |> > NT's TCP/IP stack *should* be ignored by that stack. Thirdly, an NT |> > workstation, not being a router, absolutely should never send an ICMP |> > host unreachable packet. Pretty hoarked, if you ask me. |> > |> > If anyone else has seen this behavior, please send me e-mail, or better |> > yet, reply to the group - it may be of wide interest. I'd like to band |> > together, if possible, to figure out a solution - dealing with MS Tech |> > Support on this is not exactly high on my list of strategies. |> > |> > Randall Cotton |> > Network Analyst |> > University of Illinois |> > Network Administrator Support |> > |> |> | | |-- |---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Randall Becker Voice: (905) 677-6666 |Data Design Systems Inc. EMail: becker@datadesign.com | | |From owner-freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org Sat Jan 20 02:41:06 1996 |Received: from zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.20]) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA05250 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 02:41:05 +0100 |Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by zit1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA14553; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 02:36:46 +0100 |Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) | by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17254 | Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:55:41 -0800 (PST) |Received: (from root@localhost) | by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA17188 | or current-outgoing; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:54:28 -0800 (PST) |Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) | by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17181 | for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:54:23 -0800 (PST) |Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08703; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:45:14 -0700 |From: Terry Lambert |Message-Id: <199601192145.OAA08703@phaeton.artisoft.com> |Subject: Re: Windows TCP/IP interoperability? |To: kuku@gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE |Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:45:14 -0700 (MST) |Cc: terry@lambert.org, adam@veda.is, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG |In-Reply-To: <199601190821.JAA02867@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Jan 19, 96 09:20:59 am |X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] |MIME-Version: 1.0 |Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII |Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit |Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG |Precedence: bulk |Status: OR | |> > There is also a known problem with Windows NT boxes illegally generating |> > RIP packets and causing other hosts to dump. This is fixed in the |> > latest release of NT, or a patch is available through MSN. Have you |> > recently added an NT machine to a previously functional network? |> |> |> Is this what has been reported a year ago (by Keith B.) as the so called |> 'sniper bug' ? | |Yes. | |It's really a problem when you have an older MS/TCP listening to the |bogus RIP broadcasts and using them to preeemptively dump connections. | |The problems are synergistic. | | | Terry Lambert | terry@lambert.org |--- |Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present |or previous employers. | |From owner-freebsd-questions@freefall.freebsd.org Tue Jun 18 01:55:11 1996 |Received: from sel1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (sel1.zit.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.11]) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA08024 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 01:55:10 +0200 |Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.4]) by sel1.zit.th-darmstadt.de (8.7.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA09259; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 01:45:56 +0200 (MET DST) |Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) | by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA07832; | Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:08:26 -0700 (PDT) |Received: (from root@localhost) | by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA07819 | for questions-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:08:24 -0700 (PDT) |Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) | by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA07803 | for ; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:08:13 -0700 (PDT) |Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA08975; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:06:06 -0700 |From: Terry Lambert |Message-Id: <199606172306.QAA08975@phaeton.artisoft.com> |Subject: Re: Rlogin delay |To: brian@MediaCity.com |Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:06:06 -0700 (MST) |Cc: terry@lambert.org, questions@freebsd.org |In-Reply-To: <199606172243.PAA21939@MediaCity.com> from "Brian Litzinger" at Jun 17, 96 03:43:51 pm |X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] |MIME-Version: 1.0 |Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII |Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit |Sender: owner-questions@freebsd.org |X-Loop: FreeBSD.org |Precedence: bulk |Status: RO | |> > > I've observed something concerning rlogin that is a bit odd to me, and |> > > increasingly annoying for my users. When a user logs off and then tries |> > > to re-log within a reasonable delay from another machine on the local |> > > network, the login will be ingored for a very long time (10-60 seconds |> > > seems typical). I checked the /etc/inetd.conf to make sure it was okay: |> |> I've observed the following behavior between two FreeBSD of every |> version since 2.0.5 |> |> freebsd1# rsh freebsd2 ls -a |> ./ .cshrc .klogin .rhosts |> ../ .fvwmrc .login .xsession |> .Xdefaults .history .profile |> |> freebsd1# rsh freebsd2 ls -a |> (30 or so seconds later) |> Connection refused | |Interesting. | |Did you know that FreeBSD and Linux handle route errors differently, |and that maybe a timeout on disconnect is being misinterpreted? | |Linux drops the connection (making it somewhat succeptible to the |"NT sniper bug", actually), and FreeBSD retries. | |Matt Day posted something about this to -hackers or to -current |a while ago. | |If you are stuck in an incremental back-off, it could explain a few |things. | |It would also explain why the change came in at the same time as the |4.4 Lite code came in in place of the 4.3 (Net/2) code. | | | Terry Lambert | terry@lambert.org |--- |Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present |or previous employers. | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 05:06:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 05:06:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA24437 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 05:06:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA11051; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:06:08 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:06:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Mike cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: <3585A1F2.41C67EA6@ida.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Mike wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > It's there for us newbies whose backs you're talking behind here :-) > > Hehe, not quite hidden. > > [..] > > > So what if you guys have a few minor inconveniences. You can deal with > > them. And you have options. A newbie installing freebsd to learn unix has > > few options. > > [..] > > > I hope that you experts have a nice Hackerly Correct installation that > > will satisfy your philosopy about what's "right". We'll all catch up with > > you one day if you make us work hard enough. > > > > -- > > > > Regards, > > -*Sue*- > > I agree with you that more info should be provided by sysinstall, but > when you are asked *too* many questions, it becomes annoying. Case in > point when you delete files in win95. > > 1st try: "Are you sure that you want to send this directory to the > recycle bin?" Yes. ..... > What's that you say? Yes? Well then! We'll proceed to installing the > package now... > > Not sure if any of the above had anything to do with your email, but oh > well. You missed her point entirely. Sysinstall closed up shop, went home, and left her locked in a dark room without telling her it was closing time or why. Now, I don't like to whine about the current state of sysinstall because I attempted to load 1.1 from an LBA'd dos partition once. Computing cylinders when you aren't really sure which numbers your actually using leads to painfull mistakes. All she's asking for is maybe for a little message like "Your disk is full, can't continue" or some such. Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 05:45:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28988 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 05:45:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA28974 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 05:45:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA11112; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:45:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:45:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: ben@rosengart.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > I don't understand why you think "newbies" can't install packages except > in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > sysinstall. I believe 2.1.0-R was the last release to ship with pkg_manage. I seem to recall Jordan ripping it out and issuing a famous rant on how much he hates the entire package management/sysinstall system in it's current incarnation. Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 07:09:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11048 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:09:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11041; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:09:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jer@jorsm.com) Received: from localhost (jer@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA07145; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:09:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 09:09:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeremy Shaffner To: Søren Schmidt cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mh@muenster.net Subject: Re: NTFS for FreeBSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199806152239.AAA13534@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id HAA11042 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm sorry. I was forwarding a message that had been posted to -questions. I'm in no position to work on anything of this caliber. I'm relatively new to both Unix and FBSD. (Use it at work, and it's on two puters at home.) Sorry if I wasn't clear. On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > In reply to Jeremy Shaffner who wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I might be interested in trying to write an NTFS file system driver if the > > project is not already assigned to someone. Who can give me some details? > > > > I also need someone who can give me information about integrating a file system > > into BSD. If someone has a collection of documents, links or literature > > references concerning this subject, send them to me, please. (Don't tell me to > > look into the source or at the "Documentation" pages, I will do that). > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Sounds like a good project, go for it!! > I'll point the right persons at you, but most are at Usenix right now > so don't be alarmed if this week passes without any actions, its simply > because most of us are out of town... > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? > .. > -===================================================================- Jeremy Shaffner JORSM Internet Senior Technical Support Northwest Indiana's Premium jer@jorsm.com Internet Service Provider support@jorsm.com http://www.jorsm.com -===================================================================- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 07:14:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA11897 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:14:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.net-link.net (mail.net-link.net [205.217.6.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA11892 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:14:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpub1@net-link.net) Received: from ricecake.fastnet0.net (pmr200-7.bc.net-link.net [207.49.227.47]) by mail.net-link.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA30744 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:14:34 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980616102101.0076be88@smtp.net-link.net> X-Sender: wpub1@smtp.net-link.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:21:01 -0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: Resource config problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, If this is not technical enough for hackers then I apologize, but I posted this in questions and did not receive any reply. Thanks. -------------- Could someone please help me? I have look all over (FAQ, Handbook, list archive, apache website, etc) for answers. I have a server. I am running 2.2.6-R and apache-1.2.6. We do about 2 to 5 million requests in a 24-hour period. We just switched from BSDI to FreeBSD and now we can only serve maybe 70 connections max. Also, none of our cgi programs can run. There is an error in the apache error_log that says could not spawn child process: resources unavailable. I have checked the apache page on performance tips, but they are for BSDI. They do not pertain to FreeBSD. The tips were actually written by a tech from BSDI. One of the tips is to add several lines to the kernel config like: CHILD_MAX, SOMAXCONN, etc. But SOMAXCONN should *not* be set as an option in the kernel. You should use sysctl during startup (so I've been told). I tried this both ways, adding to the kernel and using sysctl. Adding to the kernel does not work! So most of the apache tips are out the window. I have checked the login.conf. But I have been told that it only pertains to users who login, not daemons started at the command line by root (like apache). I was also told that the daemon entry in login.conf is used to limit programs started by the rc. files at start up. Well, rc.local starts my apache and I set the daemon entry to all infinity (like the root entry) and it did not help any! Also, what if you want (or need) to start a daemon from the command line? The daemon entry in login.conf would not be much good, no? I tried increasing the FD_SETSIZE in make.conf and recompiling libc, the kernal, and apache. No better. Actually seemed to make the system a little unstable, so I removed the line and remade libc, kernel, and apache. Can someone tell me where I can check the limits being imposed on a runnig process, set those limits, etc.? Better yet, just send me a sysctl -a and kernel config of Walnut Creek's or Yahoo's! servers. They must have a handle on this sort of thing. I am going in circles and a little crazy at the same time. This seems to be a mystical and avoided topic. Also, is there any reason why MAXUSERS cannot be set higher than 256? I have never seen anyone suggest a higher value. I set mine to 384 just now and I did not have any problems. But then again, the server is not running any better :( Please, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Matthew Hagerty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 07:47:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA17379 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:47:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17366 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 07:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA13958; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 00:46:29 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980617004624.20336@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 00:46:24 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: ben@rosengart.com, Darren Reed , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: ; <199806101519.IAA22143@hub.freebsd.org> <19980616075807.13931@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Garance A Drosihn on Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:10:18AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:10:18AM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > Wrt to packages, I'd make a slightly different claim than Sue does. > I do think the packages should be there for the benefit of the > newbie users, but I don't think *all* of them need to be shown at > install time. In fact, I think it's counterproductive to show them > all during the initial install. I ended up going thru the entire > list, adding all kinds of things just because "oh, that looks > interesting", or "oh, yeah, I've heard of that package, and always > wanted to try it out". Hey, yeah, me too! The first time, I thought I had to install everything I'd ever want right away because it'd be too hard to do it later. This turned out to be correct for some packages but not for the majority. > My first install was done over the net so > I didn't run into the problem with the cd's, but still I would have > been better off if I hadn't been distracted by so many choices while > I'm just trying an initial install. Perhaps the initial install > should just show a list of "the top 25" ports -- just things people > are most likely need "right away". Things like perl5, bash, cvsup > (and thus modula3), and lynx. Tell users that for everything else > they can run sysinstall after they've done their first reboot, but > don't drop them into that choice during the initial install. I agree, the choice of packages is overwhelming. What is there here that I'm going to regret not having? Oooh, nearly missed Rosegarden, just as well I read the description and chose it. What's a good file manager? Hey, a game... I think we could come up with a short list of standard packages to start people off. Either give them as a short list with an [all] option for them (and advice on how to install others after installation), or write the list out and provide it elsewhere. Take midnight commander in that set, for example, and if you don't like it replace with something else later but for now you can use it to find your way around. That would have helped me a lot. Maybe the newbies group should prepare such a list from their experience of what's needed, and then run it by someone to check for pitfalls. Then newbies couldn't say it's not what they need :-) > The other experience I had (as a newbie) was that I decided to do > my XFree config right in the initial install. I don't know quite > what I did wrong, but my whole machine just went away at that point. > After trying a number of things (including alt-function keys, I > believe), I finally had to turn the machine off. By doing that > I had exitted in the middle of the initial install, and so I ended > up redoing the entire thing (all the way back to newfs-ing) simply > because I didn't know what had and had not been done. I seem to remember something similar happening. But I did need to be taken through the steps for installing X with a menu system. Having a list of commands to type would have been hideous. I don't use or install X much so I'm a bit out of touch here. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 08:00:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19518 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:00:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19457 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:00:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA13978; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:00:18 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980617010014.18299@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:00:14 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: ben@rosengart.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <19980616095005.64408@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Garance A Drosihn on Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:20:51AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:20:51AM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 1:38 AM -0400 6/16/98, Snob Art Genre wrote: > >On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > > >> I also took objection to the idea that packages should not be available > >> during installation. That would cut out freebsd's accessibility to a lot > >> of newbies. My one concern was that it sounded like that didn't matter to > >> anyone. > > > > I don't understand why you think "newbies" can't install packages except > > in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > > sysinstall. > > Some packages are useful to have right away. I've done nearly a dozen > reinstalls in the past few days. The first time I installed every > package which looked remotely interesting, and in hindsight thought > that was stupid. However, in a later install I installed *none* of > the packages, and immediately regretted that decision too. I wanted > to create initial accounts with a bash shell, for instance, but that > doesn't work great if you didn't install bash. And the first thing > after rebooting I ftp a tar-file of various scripts I'm used to using, > but some of them don't work because I don't have perl5 installed yet. Yes, many of us have tried and regretted those two extremes. I'd like to see bash pushed hard during installation. It's only small and makes everything a lot easier for those from a microsoft or Linux background. Whether these are problems or improvements, and whether they are best dealt with by changing the installation or by adding documentation, are open to debate, I suppose. > I think it's good to have a short list of "highly desirable" packages > in a list right at install time, but leave the full list for after > the user gets past that first reboot. And by having an initial short > list, we could perhaps make sure that all packages on that short list > are on the first CD-ROM (the CD a user boots off to do an install). Either we're copying ideas here or we have the same conclusions from humble experience. > Just my thoughts, after my first-ever installs of FreeBSD... That's the most valuable set of thoughts, IMHO. They should be expressed more often but we have little access to them. It's those thoughts that can encourage people to do the installation that second time and get it right instead of being shamed into giving up :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 08:04:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20298 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:04:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20276 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:04:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id RAA01620; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:04:25 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:58:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Matthew Hagerty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Resource config problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980616102101.0076be88@smtp.net-link.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just a few hints that I just quickly can come up with: Have a look in the /sys/i386/conf/LINT file. It contains an explanation for all the kernel options. Second, maxusers is set to 10 by default. Set that to 50 or 100 to make room for caching, pipe, number of processes and other dynamic parameters in the kernel. Have a look at how big the kernel grows after this change and see if you need to put it at a higher value. And recompile (don't forget to do a make install afterwards :-). That should get you the first relief. Let the list know what helped and what didn't know if this helps. Nick Hibma On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > Greetings, > > If this is not technical enough for hackers then I apologize, but I posted > this in questions and did not receive any reply. Thanks. > > -------------- > Could someone please help me? I have look all over (FAQ, Handbook, list > archive, apache website, etc) for answers. > > I have a server. I am running 2.2.6-R and apache-1.2.6. We do about 2 to > 5 million requests in a 24-hour period. > > We just switched from BSDI to FreeBSD and now we can only serve maybe 70 > connections max. Also, none of our cgi programs can run. There is an > error in the apache error_log that says could not spawn child process: > resources unavailable. > > I have checked the apache page on performance tips, but they are for BSDI. > They do not pertain to FreeBSD. The tips were actually written by a tech > from BSDI. One of the tips is to add several lines to the kernel config > like: CHILD_MAX, SOMAXCONN, etc. But SOMAXCONN should *not* be set as an > option in the kernel. You should use sysctl during startup (so I've been > told). I tried this both ways, adding to the kernel and using sysctl. > Adding to the kernel does not work! So most of the apache tips are out the > window. > > I have checked the login.conf. But I have been told that it only pertains > to users who login, not daemons started at the command line by root (like > apache). I was also told that the daemon entry in login.conf is used to > limit programs started by the rc. files at start up. Well, rc.local starts > my apache and I set the daemon entry to all infinity (like the root entry) > and it did not help any! Also, what if you want (or need) to start a > daemon from the command line? The daemon entry in login.conf would not be > much good, no? > > I tried increasing the FD_SETSIZE in make.conf and recompiling libc, the > kernal, and apache. No better. Actually seemed to make the system a > little unstable, so I removed the line and remade libc, kernel, and apache. > > Can someone tell me where I can check the limits being imposed on a runnig > process, set those limits, etc.? Better yet, just send me a sysctl -a and > kernel config of Walnut Creek's or Yahoo's! servers. They must have a > handle on this sort of thing. > > I am going in circles and a little crazy at the same time. This seems to > be a mystical and avoided topic. Also, is there any reason why MAXUSERS > cannot be set higher than 256? I have never seen anyone suggest a higher > value. I set mine to 384 just now and I did not have any problems. But > then again, the server is not running any better :( > > Please, any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you, > Matthew Hagerty > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 08:18:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23009 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:18:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23001 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.8.8/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 15146 on Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:18:18 GMT; id PAA15146 efrom: marc@bowtie.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26421; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:15:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Message-Id: <199806161515.RAA26421@nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Matthew Hagerty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Resource config problem In-reply-to: wpub1's message of Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:21:01 -0400. <3.0.3.32.19980616102101.0076be88@smtp.net-link.net> Reply-to: marc@bowtie.nl Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:15:15 +0200 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Matthew, Check out this article, at the bottom they give some advice about tuning apache on a heavily loaded freebsd machine. http://www.WebTechniques.com/features/1998/05/engelschall/engelschall.shtml Regards, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 08:20:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23312 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23297 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA02298; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:19:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: ben@rosengart.com, Sue Blake , Darren Reed , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: <4721.897984025@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > > sysinstall. > > What's pkg_manage? I can't seem to find it on my -stable system at work, and I can't connect to my machine at home at the moment. It's a sysinstall-style CUI app that performs various pkg-related activities: (un)installation, preview, etc. > I await the details and first implementation of your design, oh > maintaining one. :) No design necessary, just a prominent pointer to pkg_manage somewhere, or perhaps Sue Blake's idea of dumping the user into pkg_manage as soon as sysinstall completes (perhaps "do you want to install packages now?" if yes, launch pkg_manage, if no, "you can install them later using pkg_manage"). Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 08:23:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA23920 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:23:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23913 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA14060; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:23:36 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980617012332.57368@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 01:23:32 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Mike , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? References: <3585A1F2.41C67EA6@ida.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Jamie Bowden on Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 08:06:07AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 08:06:07AM -0400, Jamie Bowden wrote: > You missed her point entirely. Sysinstall closed up shop, went home, and > left her locked in a dark room without telling her it was closing time or > why. Worse. It went on installing and bouncing back with merry menus for half an hour after it ran out of disk space, as if nothing was wrong. > Now, I don't like to whine about the current state of sysinstall > because I attempted to load 1.1 from an LBA'd dos partition once. > Computing cylinders when you aren't really sure which numbers your > actually using leads to painfull mistakes. All she's asking for is maybe > for a little message like "Your disk is full, can't continue" or some > such. Yes, that would be wonderful! But if it's too hard to do, just mention in the instructions that you might not be told if it runs out of space. That'd be almost as good. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 08:31:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25545 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:31:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25505 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05822; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:30:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Jamie Bowden cc: ben@rosengart.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > > > I don't understand why you think "newbies" can't install packages except > > in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > > sysinstall. > > I believe 2.1.0-R was the last release to ship with pkg_manage. I seem to > recall Jordan ripping it out and issuing a famous rant on how much he > hates the entire package management/sysinstall system in it's current > incarnation. Ha! I thought it was *new*, because I have it on my 3.0-current system but not my 2.2-stable system . . . but the 3.0 system was originally a 2.1.5 system, so pkg_manage must still be lying around from then. Sorry to introduce this pkg_manage red herring into the discussion . . . Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 10:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12600 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from news.IAEhv.nl (root@news.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12592 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Received: from LOCAL (uucp@localhost) by news.IAEhv.nl (8.8.8/1.63) with IAEhv.nl; pid 27883 on Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:08:21 GMT; id RAA27883 efrom: marc@bowtie.nl; eto: UNKNOWN Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28335; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:07:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marc@bowtie.nl) Message-Id: <199806161707.TAA28335@nietzsche.intra.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: ben@rosengart.com cc: Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-reply-to: benedict's message of Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:30:39 -0400. Reply-to: marc@bowtie.nl Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:07:30 +0200 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Snob Art Genre wrote: > > > > > I don't understand why you think "newbies" can't install packages except > > > in sysinstall. Why not put a pointer to pkg_manage in the default > > > /etc/motd, or something like that? Pkg_manage even *looks* like > > > sysinstall. > > > > I believe 2.1.0-R was the last release to ship with pkg_manage. I seem to > > recall Jordan ripping it out and issuing a famous rant on how much he > > hates the entire package management/sysinstall system in it's current > > incarnation. > > Ha! I thought it was *new*, because I have it on my 3.0-current system > but not my 2.2-stable system . . . but the 3.0 system was originally a > 2.1.5 system, so pkg_manage must still be lying around from then. > > Sorry to introduce this pkg_manage red herring into the discussion . . . > > I originally wrote pkg_manage, but have always been under the impression that it had been replaced by something better (I never used the package install option from sysinstall), perhaps I should have checked ;-). But if anyone wants to build on pkg_manage, be my guest, I can even dig up the sources if you want to. Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 12:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [195.178.136.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05401 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: (from vovik@localhost) by ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA11629; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:22:13 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <19980616222212.60788@NTU-KPI.Kiev.UA> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:22:12 +0300 From: "Vladimir A. Jakovenko" To: "Babkin, Serge" Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getty issue file References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Babkin, Serge on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 03:54:42PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 03:54:42PM -0400, Babkin, Serge wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vladimir A. Jakovenko [SMTP:vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua] > > > > On Fri, Jun 12, 1998 at 09:57:36PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Damn ... In my situation making a terminal to speak russian in getty > > is a good > > idea because I need russian motd banner message for librarians :-) > > > Huh ? Is not /etc/motd printed from /etc/profile ? You can put tset in > /etc/profile > before printing motd. motd(5) say: "The file /etc/motd is normally displayed by login(1) after a user has logged in but before the shell is run." Moreover, sometimes I nead also russian "im" message .... :-) > > > > > > > I prefer the tset method (for the obvious reasons). > > > > Terry, do you know any VT 240/420 terminals feature likes 'keymap' in > > the freebsd > > console code? With loadable fonts I can display russian, but sometimes > > I also > > need typing in russian, and at present I have only one solution -- run > > screen > > from ports and use the screen's feature 'bindkey'. > > > Oh, well, I remember SCO `mapchan' :-) If you implement this thing in > the > line discipline 0, I guess, it would be useful. :-) Vladimir Barmin has already implemented similar things in his "ttymap" patch, but this patch has never been commited :-( Personaly I prefer the screen 'bindkey' hack, because it's more system independed. > > By the way, why do you use these terminals ? Using old PCs is cheaper > and better, > and allows to use network connection over Ethernet which is yet cheaper > and better. Serge, we have a lot of DEC terminals (native DEC and some xUSSR clones), and most of them are very good for theirs job :-) For example DEC VT420 supports soft scrool, screen-refresh rate at 70Hz, line speed up to 38.4K, etc ... > > -Sergey Babkin -- Regards, Vladimir. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 12:41:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:41:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA07656 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:40:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Tue Jun 16 15:33 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA06858 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:40:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: getty issue file Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:40:35 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Vladimir A. Jakovenko [SMTP:vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua] > > On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 03:54:42PM -0400, Babkin, Serge wrote: > > > Huh ? Is not /etc/motd printed from /etc/profile ? You can put tset > in > > /etc/profile > > before printing motd. > > motd(5) say: > > "The file /etc/motd is normally displayed by login(1) after a user has > logged in but before the shell is run." > Does it change the image of already printed letters after you load new fonts ? Or you can just print additional message from /etc/profile. > Moreover, sometimes I nead also russian "im" message .... :-) > Then it's worse. Did not you trained your users for "login": prompt like Pavlov trained dogs ? :-) It's a useful training anyway and absolutely not difficult :-) > > By the way, why do you use these terminals ? Using old PCs is > cheaper > > and better, > > and allows to use network connection over Ethernet which is yet > cheaper > > and better. > > Serge, we have a lot of DEC terminals (native DEC and some xUSSR > clones), > and most of them are very good for theirs job :-) For example DEC > VT420 > supports soft scrool, screen-refresh rate at 70Hz, line speed up to > 38.4K, etc ... > Then it's worse. A while ago (when hardware terminals were popular in xUSSR) it was popular to re-program the terminal's (and matrix printer's) EPROM. Changing fonts was not that difficult, the keyboard map required a lot more work. If I get access to EPROM reprogramming equipment, I would like very much to change the fonts in my DeskJet printers because HP stopped to supply the font cartridges for them and there is no font cartridge socket in printer at all :-( -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 12:48:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09253 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [195.178.136.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08865 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:46:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: (from vovik@localhost) by ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA12334; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:44:51 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <19980616224451.65299@NTU-KPI.Kiev.UA> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:44:51 +0300 From: "Vladimir A. Jakovenko" To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getty issue file References: <19980615221137.03151@NTU-KPI.Kiev.UA> <199806152021.NAA20336@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199806152021.NAA20336@usr02.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 08:21:36PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 08:21:36PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > This means you needs to ensure the terminal is in the base state before > > > doing the newline. This is relatively easy to do, and won't damage the > > > ability to download the sixel based character sets. > > > > > > You *will* have to deal with a number-of-characters-in-the-sixel-set > > > lines of CRLF, however... > > > > Hmm ... according to getty sources, it uses 512 bytes buffer not for each > > line, but for all issue file. > > No. It calls getline repeatedly. > > See line 328 of /usr/src/libexec/getty/main.c: > > /* if this is the first time through this, and an > issue file has been given, then send it */ > if (first_time && IF) { > int fd; > > if ((fd = open(IF, O_RDONLY)) != -1) { > char * cp; > > --->>> while ((cp = getline(fd)) != NULL) { > putf(cp); > } > close(fd); > } > } > first_time = 0; > > The point is that getline() will fail is there is more than 512 bytes > before the EOL (LF). > I'll see, sorry for my mistake :-( In previous posting you said: * This means you needs to ensure the terminal is in the base state before * doing the newline. This is relatively easy to do, and won't damage the * ability to download the sixel based character sets. so if I still need to load sixel fonts in getty, I have to add code to check if terminal in a base state, do newline, and send next data portion < 512, check base state, do newline, send data, etc .... Can you point me how I can check is a terminal in the base state? > > > Terry, do you know any VT 240/420 terminals feature likes 'keymap' in > > the freebsd console code? With loadable fonts I can display russian, > > but sometimes I also need typing in russian, and at present I have only > > one solution -- run screen from ports and use the screen's feature > > 'bindkey'. > > Probably the correct way to do it is to translate serial keyboard > events into key-up/key-down pairs, and map them in that way. The > best method would be to add a line discipline, and just use the > "kbdmap" utility to install the maps. This would be the most general > soloution, since if done right, it would work with all the existing map > files, magically. > > For upper case characters, you'll have to do "shift-down", "key-down", > "key-up", "shift-up". For control characters, "ctrl-down" ... "ctrl-up", > and similar bracketing. It's probably not worthwhile supporting > function key translation, since that is too terminal specific. You would > need to add an additional line discipline (terminal specific) to handle > that. If you wanted to go that far, I would suggest modelling the > terminal state in the raw processing module, shared by all tty style > devices, ie: as an option in the TTYDISC or NTTYDISC. This would let > you transparent print when the automaton was at state 0, and also let > you access the status lines atomically, etc.. This is a real win, > which UNIX can't currently cope with, except using third party drivers, > like those available from Computone, etc.. You'd also be able to use > the VTXXX series "DEC mice", which send escape sequences on button down, > but don't send motion-notify events. > It's quite interesting, but I haven't enough time now :-( > I'd be willing to help on *some* of this, since I've basically done this > code before for a commercial UNIX tty application vendor. > > Alternately, you could buy Russian keyboards from DEC. 8-(. I don't > think there are any, since you are more than an NRCS away from US ASCII. > > Alternately alternately, you could make "mapchan" work. This is an > inferior approach, though, since it means that you wouldn't be able to > leverage the keymaps in either direction. > As I said earlier to mr. Babkin, something similar has already exist (you can find it via ftpsearch with keyword 'ttymap.22.tgz'). I'll look at it .... > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- Regards, Vladimir. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 13:02:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11859 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:02:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bingsun1 (bingsun1.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA11850 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bf20761@binghamton.edu) Received: from localhost (bf20761@localhost) by bingsun1 (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA14779 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:02:36 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:02:36 -0400 (EDT) From: zhihuizhang X-Sender: bf20761@bingsun1 To: hackers Subject: where is the paper of soft updates? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anybody tell me where I can find the paper on soft updates by Ganger/Patt? Thanks a lot. ------------------------------------------------- Zhihui Zhang Department of Computer Science State University of New York at Binghamton Web Site: http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang ------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 13:25:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16723 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from papillon.lemis.com (rider.dunham.org [207.170.123.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16714 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id NAA00641; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:16:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980615131558.32993@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:15:58 -0500 From: Greg Lehey To: Bruce Evans Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/slice slice_base.c References: <199806150810.SAA32182@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199806150810.SAA32182@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans on Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 06:10:58PM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (moved from cvs-* to -hackers) On Mon, 15 June 1998 at 18:10:58 +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: >> No, disklabel depends on the 'old' slice ioctls, which are dead and >> gone. We're still stuck waiting on the new toolchain, although if > > No, disklabel depends on the very old label ioctls, which are standard. I have to agree on this one. Individual programs should make no assumptions about the location of a disk label. It could even be stored separately, so that reading the slice could never return the label. Does anybody have objections to the "old" ioctls? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 14:08:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22910 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:08:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (daemon@smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22811 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11439; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:07:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd011371; Tue Jun 16 14:07:43 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA23150; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:07:40 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806162107.OAA23150@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: getty issue file To: vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (Vladimir A. Jakovenko) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:07:40 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980616224451.65299@NTU-KPI.Kiev.UA> from "Vladimir A. Jakovenko" at Jun 16, 98 10:44:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The point is that getline() will fail is there is more than 512 bytes > > before the EOL (LF). > > > > I'll see, sorry for my mistake :-( > > In previous posting you said: > > * This means you needs to ensure the terminal is in the base state before > * doing the newline. This is relatively easy to do, and won't damage the > * ability to download the sixel based character sets. > > so if I still need to load sixel fonts in getty, I have to add code to > check if terminal in a base state, do newline, and send next data > portion < 512, check base state, do newline, send data, etc .... > > Can you point me how I can check is a terminal in the base state? OK. Terminals are finite state automatons. They default to their base state when powered on. As you progress through an escape sequence, they leave the base state for other states, and when the sequence is completed, they return to the base state. Consider a simple parser for ANSI 3.64 escape sequences: state = 0; /* set initial automaton state to base state*/ for(;;) { c = input_char(); switch( state) { case 0: /* base state*/ switch( c) { case '\x1b': /* escape*/ state = 1; break; case '\b': /* backspace*/ cursor( CD_LEFT, 1); break; ... default: display_char( c); break; } break; case 1: /* processing an escape sequence*/ switch( c) { case '\x1b': /* escape escape -- return to base state*/ state = 0; break; case '[': /* CSI*/ ... } ... As you can see, "base state" just means "not in the middle of a sequence". For sixels, you send sequences of (from the comp.emulators.misc FAQ): fn : font number 0 or 1 cn : starting character (position of first character sent in character set) 0..95 ec : erase control 0..2 cmw: character matrix width 0..6 w : font width 0..2 t : text or full-cell 0..2 cmh: character matrix height 0..12 css: character set size 0..1 Dscs:define character set name <"space"../ "space"../ F> Sxbpn: sixel bit patterns So you get around the 512 byte limit by breaking up the sequence into multiple sequences, with interspersed linefeeds for "getline", using the "fn" and "cn" to download runs of characters. This means you send: DCS ..... ST LF DCS ..... ST LF DCS ..... ST LF DCS ..... ST LF Instead of: DCS ...................................................... ST Note also that the pcvt console for FreeBSD supports sixel character sets as well... it may be a way for you to unify all your character set processing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 14:17:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24400 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24394 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25478; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd025361; Tue Jun 16 14:17:19 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA23603; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:17:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806162117.OAA23603@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: getty issue file To: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:17:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: vovik@ntu-kpi.kiev.ua, tlambert@primenet.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "sbabkin@dcn.att.com" at Jun 16, 98 03:40:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > "The file /etc/motd is normally displayed by login(1) after a user has > > logged in but before the shell is run." > > Does it change the image of already printed letters after you load new > fonts ? Yes, if the data was printed in the G0/G1 set, and you replace the set it was printed in. We used this fact to get "wipe" effects on VT220's. 8-). I think one of my friends still has his "chess set" sixel character set; I'm not sure if the other one still has his "slot machine" character set. I still have my "Commodore PET" character set. And my tokenised Commodore BASIC interpreter written in VAX FORTRAN. You had to send the "ESC # 6" to get the VT220 into "40 column mode". It's on one of my TK50's. 8-). > > For example DEC VT420 supports soft scrool, screen-refresh rate at > > 70Hz, line speed up to 38.4K, etc ... 38.4K -- with flow control, I assume. The VT3xx and higher terminals were all slow as molasses compared to earlier terminals because of their soft "personality" cartidges. Big mistake on DEC's part -- it made Wyse terminals worth getting. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 15:54:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12661 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:54:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12653 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:54:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id SAA29316; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:54:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: zhihuizhang cc: hackers Subject: Re: where is the paper of soft updates? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, zhihuizhang wrote: > > Can anybody tell me where I can find the paper on soft updates by > Ganger/Patt? Thanks a lot. http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/papers/ -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 16:03:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14041 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:03:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14036 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:03:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00774; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:02:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:02:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199806162302.TAA00774@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: bf20761@binghamton.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: where is the paper of soft updates? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Can anybody tell me where I can find the paper on soft updates by > Ganger/Patt? Thanks a lot. > > ------------------------------------------------- > > Zhihui Zhang > > Department of Computer Science > State University of New York at Binghamton > > Web Site: http://cs.binghamton.edu/~zzhang > > ------------------------------------------------- http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/papers/CSE-TR-254-95 -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 16:11:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15307 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:11:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iconmail.bellatlantic.net (iconmail.bellatlantic.net [199.173.162.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15297 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:11:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmm125@bellatlantic.net) Received: from myname.my.domain (client201-122-12.bellatlantic.net [151.201.122.12]) by iconmail.bellatlantic.net (IConNet Sendmail) with SMTP id TAA23004 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.misc Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:10:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Donn Miller X-Sender: dmm125@myname.my.domain To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: getopt and files that start with - or -- Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I had some problems with filenames that start with - or --. The getopt() library function interprets arguments beginning with "-" passed to programs like ls, rm, grep as options. This is bad if you try to do rm -* or ls -* or grep "a string" -*. I thought maybe a provision could be made to "ignore the following arguments" passed to getopt(). Say you have a file named --weird.jpg. You want to remove this, so you do: rm --* or just --weird.jpg. rm will complain about the invalid option --weird.jpg, which isn't actually an option but a filename. "ls" will also complain, as well as other programs using getopt(). So I thought that maybe getopt could use an option such as ---i or ---ignore to ingore all other options. Otherwise, you would have to use a program like this to remove the offending files: /* unlink: force removal of ALL files usage: unlink file1 file2 .. filen just like rm -f except no options */ #include #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int i; if (argc == 1) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: unlink file[s].\n"); exit(-1); } for (i = 1 ; i < argc ; i++) { if (unlink(argv[i]) == 0) printf ("removed %s\n", argv[i]); else perror(argv[i]); } return 0; } Or else maybe libc.so.* could use a hack to deal with these stange situations. Another less attractive solution would be to just use the code above, install it in /usr/local/bin, and use it like rm -f. Donn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 16:41:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:41:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mars.aros.net (mars.aros.net [207.173.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20524 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msanders@shell.aros.net) Received: from shell.aros.net (root@shell.aros.net [207.173.16.19]) by mars.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA10117; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.aros.net (msanders@localhost.aros.net [127.0.0.1]) by shell.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21053; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:41:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806162341.RAA21053@shell.aros.net> X-Attribution: msanders To: Donn Miller cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getopt and files that start with - or -- In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:10:06 -0000." X-Mailer: MH 6.8.3 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:41:47 -0600 From: "Michael K. Sanders" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Donn Mill er writes: >Hi > >I had some problems with filenames that start with - or --. The getopt() >library function interprets arguments beginning with "-" passed to >programs like ls, rm, grep as options. This is bad if you try to do >rm -* or >ls -* or grep "a string" -*. I thought maybe a provision could be made to >"ignore the following arguments" passed to getopt(). It's already there. >Say you have a file named --weird.jpg. You want to remove this, so you >do: No, you do 'rm -- --weird.jpg'. Read the getopt(1) man page more carefully: may not be separated from it by white space. The special option ``--'' is used to delimit the end of the options. getopt will place ``--'' in the arguments at the end of the options, or recognize it if used explic- itly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 17:57:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iconmail.bellatlantic.net (iconmail.bellatlantic.net [199.173.162.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04072 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:57:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmm125@bellatlantic.net) Received: from myname.my.domain (client201-122-36.bellatlantic.net [151.201.122.36]) by iconmail.bellatlantic.net (IConNet Sendmail) with SMTP id UAA06375 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.misc Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:53:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Donn Miller X-Sender: dmm125@myname.my.domain To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getopt and files that start with - or -- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Donn Miller wrote: > Hi > > I had some problems with filenames that start with - or --. The getopt() > library function interprets arguments beginning with "-" passed to > programs like ls, rm, grep as options. This is bad if you try to do > rm -* or > ls -* or grep "a string" -*. I thought maybe a provision could be made to > "ignore the following arguments" passed to getopt(). > > Say you have a file named --weird.jpg. You want to remove this, so you > do: > > rm --* or just --weird.jpg. rm will complain about the invalid option > --weird.jpg, which isn't actually an option but a filename. "ls" will > also complain, as well as other programs using getopt(). So I thought > that maybe getopt could use an option such as ---i or ---ignore to ingore > all other options. Otherwise, you would have to use a program like this > to remove the offending files: > Never mind; I found out that -- signals the end of options. Just didn't read the manpage carefully enough. Donn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 18:03:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05480 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:03:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05454 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (vex-e.isi.edu [128.9.160.240]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA01427; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806170059.RAA01427@tnt.isi.edu> To: "Michael K. Sanders" Cc: Donn Miller , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getopt and files that start with - or -- In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:41:47 MDT." <199806162341.RAA21053@shell.aros.net> X-Url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:59:54 -0700 From: Ted Faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Michael K. Sanders" wrote: >In message , Donn Mill >er writes: >>Say you have a file named --weird.jpg. You want to remove this, so you >>do: > >No, you do 'rm -- --weird.jpg'. And, of course, this is *never* an issue with filenames which can always be passed as ./--goofy_file . - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Faber faber@isi.edu USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNYcVCIb4eisfQ5rpAQE5jgQAiBHkecSIOxp1auOzMFBkpwMcJ45Ozpym L2DQEzGFFjRt+JeJ8Bk+qUnDvCK+2EsuL6i/AGClOcjKJ6EoMfKysqn9RAprV1jp Ec0bFHBt8Jx1QOjvv7bULqy2QOKoK1IoDP2F2EJlss21//2Zq4kip8A+VJcYmBah 7i7Xh9R01bQ= =q88V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 19:42:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20658 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20511; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:41:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA06618; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:39:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: "Charles M. Hannum" cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , Jason Thorpe , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, core@FreeBSD.ORG, cgd@netbsd.org, ross@netbsd.org, core@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Copyright infringement in FreeBSD/alpha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10 Jun 1998, Charles M. Hannum wrote: > > "Justin T. Gibbs" writes: > > > >...an error made worse by the fact that, regardless of what the head > > >revision of the file has, revisions LACKING the notice are still available > > >via the exported RCS information. > > > > And you still have legal recourse to defend your claim to that code > > regardless of whether the copyright is there or not. Your legal rights are > > the same regardless of whether the user pulls the revision out of CVS that > > lacks your copyright or they delete the copyrights manually. > > And you still are distributing a version that violates the license > (c.f. `must retain the above copyright notice, ...'). And we are > still informing you that you are doing so, which seems substantially > more courteous than immediately talking to a lawyer about it. The first message literally dripped sarcasm, and made the assumption (which does not seem at all warranted) that it was done on purpose and with malicious intent. Don't complain that people are being short with you, if you begin the conversation as impolitely as that. If you just want it corrected, a simple request would have done just as well, and not left everyone with such a negative impression. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 19:45:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA21019 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:45:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21010 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 19:45:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA06628; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:42:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@localhost To: Peter Jeremy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Making world with gcc-2.8.1 In-Reply-To: <199806102250.IAA23365@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Peter Jeremy wrote: > I would like to do a make world using gcc-2.8.1, tweaked for my system > (ie Pentium-II), rather than the modified gcc-2.7.2.1 included in > 2.2.6-R. > > My preferred option is to change /usr/src/contrib/gcc to be gcc-2.8.1 > (with the relevant FreeBSD native patches added from the old gcc) and > modify /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc to compile it. I'm having problems > trying to get the correct rules for building things like c-parse.o > (where the object is wanted for cc1, but the source file was built > from c-parse.in by cc_tools. > > A fallback procedure is to drop cc from the lib-tools list and > /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/Makefile, relying on the version installed in > /usr/local/bin instead. (This also needs a few other tweaks to > make sure the system cc isn't used anywhere - particularly by mkdep). > > Has anyone else attempted this? Does anyone have any useful hints? Couldn't you just have installed gcc-2.8.1 from ports, and then set CC and CXX in /etc/make.conf to point at /usr/local/bin/gcc and /usr/local/bin/g++? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 21:05:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01709 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:05:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au [203.17.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01693 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:04:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au ("port 4628"@[139.188.23.1]) by gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-7 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IYCGAAZ774003DPN@gatekeeper.alcatel.com.au> for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:03:26 +1000 Received: from gsms01.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.1-10 #U2695) with ESMTP id <01IYCGA39ZS0BNJ0LI@cim.alcatel.com.au>; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:03:16 +1000 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsms01.alcatel.com.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) id OAA18320; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:03:14 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:03:14 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Making world with gcc-2.8.1 To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <199806170403.OAA18320@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:42:27 -0400 (EDT), Chuck Robey wrote: >On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Peter Jeremy wrote: >> I would like to do a make world using gcc-2.8.1, > >Couldn't you just have installed gcc-2.8.1 from ports, and then set CC >and CXX in /etc/make.conf to point at /usr/local/bin/gcc and >/usr/local/bin/g++? It's not as simple as this. Problems include: - make world rebuilds the tools (including cc) and then wants to use the new cc to build everything. Various environment variables are set to ensure that when the new cc runs, it pulls in the new cpp/cc1/as/ld and libgcc. Fixing this means hacking the top level makefile (and maybe some of the lower level ones as well). - The file structure is different to gcc. In particular, the libraries are separated out. You need to make sure that the old libgcc isn't built. You also need to replace libstdc++-2.7.x with libstdc++-2.8.x (gcc-2.8.1 won't compile the older libstdc++). That's as far as I've gotten. I got side-tracked onto real work. Since people have claimed `it's easy', someone has presumably done it... Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 21:50:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06866 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06856 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:50:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07991; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Jamie Bowden cc: Mike , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:06:07 EDT." Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:50:07 -0700 Message-ID: <7987.898059007@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > why. Now, I don't like to whine about the current state of sysinstall > because I attempted to load 1.1 from an LBA'd dos partition once. > Computing cylinders when you aren't really sure which numbers your > actually using leads to painfull mistakes. All she's asking for is maybe > for a little message like "Your disk is full, can't continue" or some > such. Well, like I've said before, if someone wishes to add it? :) As of today, other duties have taken over any and all time available for sysinstall hacking and I'm afraid that I can no longer maintain it. It is now up for grabs! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 21:54:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07364 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07357 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:54:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA10457; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:58:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806170458.OAA10457@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Making world with gcc-2.8.1 In-Reply-To: <199806170403.OAA18320@gsms01.alcatel.com.au> from Peter Jeremy at "Jun 17, 98 02:03:14 pm" To: peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:58:44 +1000 (EST) Cc: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Jeremy wrote: > That's as far as I've gotten. I got side-tracked onto real work. > > Since people have claimed `it's easy', someone has presumably done it... FWIW, I don't think it is easy to use a different version of gcc as part of a build world. If you just want to compile the tree from /usr/src without building into ${WORLDTMP} first, then you can override things by adding to /etc/make.conf. I doubt that anyone will be keen to hear about problems building world with anything other than the standard tools since there are too many unknowns and the problems aren't readily reproducable. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jun 16 22:54:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13540 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:54:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (static222.conference.usenix.org [204.119.186.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13529 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00856; Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806170449.VAA00856@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: Bruce Evans , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/slice slice_base.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:15:58 CDT." <19980615131558.32993@papillon.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:49:02 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (moved from cvs-* to -hackers) > > On Mon, 15 June 1998 at 18:10:58 +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: > >> No, disklabel depends on the 'old' slice ioctls, which are dead and > >> gone. We're still stuck waiting on the new toolchain, although if > > > > No, disklabel depends on the very old label ioctls, which are standard. > > I have to agree on this one. Individual programs should make no > assumptions about the location of a disk label. It could even be > stored separately, so that reading the slice could never return the > label. Does anybody have objections to the "old" ioctls? Hmm. I'd have to say that the major problem is that the disklabel ioctls only deal with disklabels. These were extended later when the slice stuff came in, but the "new paradigm" would make this a little amusing (you could slice a partition which was part of a slice... ad infinitum). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 04:10:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA25053 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 04:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24981; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 04:10:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id LAA05194; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:09:48 GMT Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:09:48 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Alton, Matthew" cc: "'FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "Smallie, Scott" , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Filesystem Development Toolkit In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF9017765D7@STLABCEXG011> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew, The project sounds interesting. You might want to refer to John Heidemann's work done while he was at UCLA. You can find his pages at I think http://www.isi.edu/~johnh. His approach is radically different and potentially a lot less work for future FS implementors. You could define a standard vop interface and map it into FreeBSD and the vop layers of other Unix implementations. Basically it allows you to leverage off of existing code. In FreeBSD a partially implemented framework exists, but it needs to be cleaned up. There are 2 major problems with it now: 1) There are ref counting and locking layering violations in the code. I've cleaned these up for everything except vop_rename, vop_mknod, and vop_symlink so far. 2) There is no object coherence management done. This is a more serious problem that is inherent in any stacked design where you want to cache objects, data, and attributes in different layers that represent a file. This will require taking a hard look at the top half of the kernel code where calls are made to things like vop_rdwr, mmap, vop_{put|get}pages and the implementation themselves to properly design it. In a layered environment you need to make sure that operations are either done on the same vnode of a file or you need a cache_mgr to manage coherence between the cached objects hanging off of all the vnodes that represent the file. One reason that I'd like to see a user-space layer implemented is that it would represent an extra requirement in the design of the solution to the problems in 2) above. i.e. Instead of putting in VM calls here and there you would be forced to think of a cleaner solution, otherwise you will have to implement a lot of weird system calls to emulate those VM calls. If you implemented a cache_mgr then you could reduce the number of system calls you would need to implement and use in your user-land emulation of the kernel APIs. With a cache_mgr implementation, vop_putpages and vop_getpages would take 2 vnode pointers. One would be a caching vp and the other would be the paging vp and these could potentially be in different layers of the stack. The cache_mgr would ensure that the correct vps are passed to the operations. For example, if you implemented a compression or encryption layer on top of ufs, you would likely want the clear text cached for performance, but you would want to ensure that the ufs pager were used to actually write to the media. Then at night when a backup is running against the compressed files, the ufs layer would be the caching layer. I wish I had the time to work on something like this, but I don't. As far as people that can contribute to this the following list is what I can come up with off the top of my head. Poul Henning-Kamp, Julian Elisher, David Greenman, Bruce Evans, Peter Wemm, Doug Rabson, Tor Egge, Luoqi Chen, and Simon Shapiro. I mention Simon Shapiro because he has been working on a DLM and many of the concepts are similar but generalized to not just locks, but also data pages and file attributes. It's interesting to note that John Heidemann's experimental versions did not include locks and was not distributed. It just used the existing vnode locking implementation and interfaced with other distributed protocols such as NFS, etc. Of course, if some lurker out there were to take on this challenge that would be pretty cool too. Regards, Mike Hancock To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 04:20:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA27610 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 04:20:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA27545; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 04:19:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id LAA05224; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:18:55 GMT Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:18:55 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: "Alton, Matthew" cc: "'FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "Smallie, Scott" , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Filesystem Development Toolkit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Michael Hancock wrote: > Poul Henning-Kamp, Julian Elisher, David Greenman, Bruce Evans, Peter > Wemm, Doug Rabson, Tor Egge, Luoqi Chen, and Simon Shapiro. > > I mention Simon Shapiro because he has been working on a DLM and many of > the concepts are similar but generalized to not just locks, but also data > pages and file attributes. It's interesting to note that John Heidemann's > experimental versions did not include locks and was not distributed. It > just used the existing vnode locking implementation and interfaced with > other distributed protocols such as NFS, etc. > > Of course, if some lurker out there were to take on this challenge that > would be pretty cool too. Oh, and how could I forget, Terry Lambert would also have a lot of ideas in this area as well or he might just yak and be a general pain in the ass. ;-) which is about all I have time to do these days. Regards, Mike Hancock To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 05:24:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA10569 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 05:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA10559 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 05:24:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA12744; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:12:29 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:12:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Donn Miller cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getopt and files that start with - or -- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Donn Miller wrote: > Hi > > I had some problems with filenames that start with - or --. The getopt() > library function interprets arguments beginning with "-" passed to > programs like ls, rm, grep as options. This is bad if you try to do > rm -* or > ls -* or grep "a string" -*. I thought maybe a provision could be made to > "ignore the following arguments" passed to getopt(). > > Say you have a file named --weird.jpg. You want to remove this, so you > do: > > rm --* or just --weird.jpg. rm will complain about the invalid option > --weird.jpg, which isn't actually an option but a filename. "ls" will > also complain, as well as other programs using getopt(). So I thought > that maybe getopt could use an option such as ---i or ---ignore to ingore > all other options. Otherwise, you would have to use a program like this > to remove the offending files: Unneccessary code deleted. >From the rm manpage: NOTE The rm command uses getopt(3) to parse its arguments, which allows it to accept the `--' option which will cause it to stop processing flag op- tions at that point. This will allow the removal of file names that be- gin with a dash (`-'). For example: rm -- -filename The same behavior can be obtained by using an absolute or relative path reference. For example: rm /home/user/-filename rm ./-filename This is useful for commands that do not use getopt(3) to parse the com- mand line arguments. Jamie Bowden Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 06:14:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19534 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:14:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com [134.32.44.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA19493 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smoergrd@geos01.oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com) Received: from recas002.geco-prakla.slb.com (recas002 [134.32.45.92]) by oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA11642 ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:13:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by recas002.geco-prakla.slb.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA01271; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:19:36 +0200 To: Matthew Hagerty Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Resource config problem References: <3.0.3.32.19980616102101.0076be88@smtp.net-link.net> Organization: Schlumberger Geco-Prakla From: smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 17 Jun 1998 15:19:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: Matthew Hagerty's message of Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:21:01 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Hagerty writes: > We just switched from BSDI to FreeBSD and now we can only serve maybe 70 > connections max. Also, none of our cgi programs can run. There is an > error in the apache error_log that says could not spawn child process: > resources unavailable. "resource unavailable" when forking usually means your process table is full. You need to raise the value of maxusers in your kernel configuration file. The limit on the number of concurrent processes is (20 + 16 * maxusers); on a Web server, I'd set it to at least 32. On a side note, you might also want to raise the number of MBUF clusters (NMBCLUSTERS). The default is (512 + 16 * maxusers). -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - smoergrd@oslo.geco-prakla.slb.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 06:43:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24805 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:43:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24730 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:43:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from xcejka00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.51]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA15562 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:42:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.52]) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23111 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:42:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from xcejka00@localhost) by sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA21334 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:42:54 GMT Message-Id: <199806171342.NAA21334@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Subject: fxp0: Hard bug??? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:42:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: Cejka Rudolf X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is continuation of my problem "DISKLESS & fxp0" from freebsd-questions. I have box with Intel EtherExpress 100B network card. If I provide local boot, everythink is OK (directly from EasyBoot & hard drive) - great. But if I'm trying to boot FreeBSD after network login (MSDOS), fxp0 interface is totally unusable. At this time I know, that problems occur after running "lsl.com" and "e100bodi.com". So if I run "e100bodi.com" in DOS, I can't boot and run FreeBSD via "fbsdboot.exe" - kernel all the time writes "fxp0: device timeout"... Grr... _BUT_ after adding two lines: CSR_WRITE_4(sc, FXP_CSR_PORT, FXP_PORT_SOFTWARE_RESET); DELAY(10); in fxp_init() function, kernel boots well! I think, there _must_ be hard bug in initialization of Intel EtherExpress 100B card in if_fxp.c. Am I right? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rudolf Cejka E-mail: xcejka00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz Technical University of Brno, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 07:48:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03751 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:48:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.ucb.crimea.ua (relay.ucb.crimea.ua [194.93.177.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02889 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:43:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@ucb.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by relay.ucb.crimea.ua (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15632; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:42:56 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Message-ID: <19980617174256.A15507@ucb.crimea.ua> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:42:56 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: ivan@cyclades.com Cc: Cyclades Technical Support , Beltran Cambronero Dominguez , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cyclom-Y driver for FreeBSD - help!!! Mail-Followup-To: ivan@cyclades.com, Cyclades Technical Support , Beltran Cambronero Dominguez , hackers@freebsd.org References: <19980616212437.A7139@ucb.crimea.ua> <3586F905.6E254745@cyclades.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i In-Reply-To: <3586F905.6E254745@cyclades.com>; from Ivan Passos on Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:00:21PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:00:21PM -0700, Ivan Passos wrote: > > Hi, Mr. Ermilov !! > > > There are two drivers (I know of) for FreeBSD: > > > > a. the standard shipped driver, developed by FreeBSD team; > > b. the driver patched by you: > > $Id: cy.c,v 1.41.3.1 1998/05/01 18:23:46 ivan Exp $ > > > > With any of these drivers I'm getting "silo overflows" with > > Cyclom-YeP. > > There are no "silo overflows" with ISA card. > > The "silo overflow" msg really comes from the Cyclades Cyclom-Y > FreeBSD driver, and it means that there was a FIFO overflow in that > port. For some reason, this problem happens only on PCI accesses to > memory mapped devices on FreeBSD. It does not happen with ISA > devices (as you could verify), nor with our PCI devices on other > operating systems. I can confirm both of this facts. > The Cyclades Cyclom-Y FreeBSD driver is maintained by the FreeBSD > core team (my patch intended just to add support to our new Cyclom-Y > boards). We (Cyclades) provide only installation support, which is > not your case. Why then the FreeBSD in the list of the supported operating systems for the Cyclom-Y adapter on the www.cyclades.com? Or why it is not mentioned that PCI cards doesn't work well with FreeBSD? > I remember about requests related to the same problem, > and I believe (although I'm not sure) that FreeBSD support team has > some guidelines for this problem. Yes, they say: "Decrease the baudrate". I tried to do this - it doesn't help. It gets "silo overflows" even on 2400bps on both sides. > Could you please contact them > directly (you can try e-mailing support@freebsd.org or > questions@freebsd.org) to check that out ?!?! Yes, I know, I'm actively participating in FreeBSD life. In fact the FreeBSD only claims that they _support_ this driver. Try searching the mailing list archives on freebsd.org regarding "cyclom cyclades driver pci" and then check the responds and solutions. Of course, Ive sent a letter to the FreeBSD about my problem with Cyclades. This was the second thing after searching the mailing lists I've done. The one response I got from Danniel O'Callaghan was: | Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 09:53:24 +1000 (EST) | From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" | To: Ruslan Ermilov | cc: support@cyclades.com | Subject: Re: Help with Cyclades!!! | In-Reply-To: <19980612173805.A3586@ucb.crimea.ua> | | | I am also getting silo overflows with the FreeBSD 2.2.6 driver from | ftp.cyclades.com. This is on 2 ISA and 1 PCI boards rev 1.x. I have not | tried a rev 2.03 board. | | /* Daniel O'Callaghan */ | /* HiLink Internet danny@hilink.com.au */ | /* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */ > > I wrote 2 letters to support@cyclades.com. > > It seems that they got to /dev/null ;-( > > That's unusual. They should have at least replied to you. Beltran, > could you please clarify this ?!?! Here is my original posting to both FreeBSD and Cyclades: | Message-ID: <19980612173805.A3586@ucb.crimea.ua> | Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:38:05 +0300 | From: Ruslan Ermilov | To: FreeBSD Questions , support@cyclades.com | Cc: bugs@freebsd.org | Subject: Help with Cyclades!!! | | Hi! | | *** I really need an answer, so I posted this to both -questions and -bugs *** | | We're running 2.2.6-STABLE on our server. | | Yesterday I replaced Cyclades Cyclom-8Ye (ISA version) by new | Cyclom-8YeP (PCI version) with hope to improve the performance. | | ISA card worked well about 3 month without any problems at all. | Five 33.6 modems attached to it at 57600 baud-rate. | | Both cards (ISA and PCI) are revision 1.02. | The new serial module is SM8 II. | | The standard FreeBSD driver doesn't support SM8/SM16 II, so the | the card was recognized but ports are not working. | | I installed the driver updated by Cyclades (ftp.cyclades.com). | The card is recognized ok and the ports are now working, but I got | silo overflows: | | cy0 rev 1 int a irq 11 on pci0:15:0 | | cy1: 1 more silo overflow (total 1) | cy0: 3 more silo overflows (total 6) | cy0: 6 more silo overflows (total 12) | cy1: 1 more silo overflow (total 2) | cy1: 5 more silo overflows (total 7) | cy2: 1 more silo overflow (total 2) | cy2: 6 more silo overflows (total 8) | ... and so on ... | | I tried: | | 1. to decrease baudrate from 115200 down to 38400 - this didn't help | 2. #undef PollMode in the driver (cy.c) - gave me a kernel panic | | Any help (patch, workaround, etc.) would be much appreciated. | | In FreeBSD we trust! | -- | Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator | ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank | +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea | 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN > > > Do you have any plans to write your own driver for Cyclom-Y adapters > > for FreeBSD? > > A while ago, FreeBSD assumed the responsibility to maintain the > Cyclades Cyclom-Y drive. Since this problem you are facing seems to > be common, I'm forwarding this msg to David Greeman, who is the > leader of the FreeBSD core team, so that he can at least comment on > this issue. This e-mail's also been CC'ed to support@freebsd.org. > > I hope this e-mail helps you to find some answers to your problem. > > Regards, > -- > ******************************************************************* > Cyclades Corporation Tel.: (510)770-9727 ext. 202 > Ivan Passos E-mail : mailto:ivan@cyclades.com > Software Engineer WWW : http://www.cyclades.com > ******************************************************************* Thank you, Ivan, for the _first_ qualified response about Cyclades! -- Ruslan Ermilov System Administrator ru@ucb.crimea.ua United Commercial Bank +380-652-247647 Simferopol, Crimea 2426679 ICQ Network, UIN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 07:53:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04563 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opus.cts.cwu.edu (skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu [198.104.92.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA04555 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Received: from localhost (skynyrd@localhost) by opus.cts.cwu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA25370; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skynyrd@opus.cts.cwu.edu) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:53:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Timmons To: Cejka Rudolf cc: dg@root.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fxp0: Hard bug??? In-Reply-To: <199806171342.NAA21334@sts.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman is Mr. fxp0 and he's at usenix. I cc'ed him with a copy of your message to increase the liklihood that he'll see it when he comes back and tries to dig out. Probably the best thing to do now would be to use the send-pr tool so that your report (and the fix you provide) is recorded into the gnats problem tracking database. Thanks for the report! -Chris On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > > This is continuation of my problem "DISKLESS & fxp0" from > freebsd-questions. > > I have box with Intel EtherExpress 100B network card. If I provide local > boot, everythink is OK (directly from EasyBoot & hard drive) - great. > But if I'm trying to boot FreeBSD after network login (MSDOS), fxp0 > interface is totally unusable. At this time I know, that problems occur > after running "lsl.com" and "e100bodi.com". So if I run "e100bodi.com" in > DOS, I can't boot and run FreeBSD via "fbsdboot.exe" - kernel all the time > writes "fxp0: device timeout"... Grr... > > _BUT_ after adding two lines: > > CSR_WRITE_4(sc, FXP_CSR_PORT, FXP_PORT_SOFTWARE_RESET); > DELAY(10); > > in fxp_init() function, kernel boots well! > > I think, there _must_ be hard bug in initialization of Intel > EtherExpress 100B card in if_fxp.c. Am I right? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Rudolf Cejka E-mail: xcejka00@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz > Technical University of Brno, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science > Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 08:12:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06811 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:12:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06793; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:12:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27898; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:12:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3587DCEE.D9923AC4@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:12:46 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Draft of letter to DOJ References: <3585F65D.CA47C812@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > Mr. Love, > > This evening I read your draft letter to Mr. Klein et al with great > interest. [...] Mr. Love replied to my letter yesterday, thanking me for the points I had raised. He is now gathering information on free-source projects having difficulty obtaining technical information needed to write drivers. If you know of any companies that refuse to assist in writing drivers for FreeBSD, Linux, etc., please forward this information to me; I will collate it and send a single letter to Mr. Love so we do not flood his box with snippets of information. Hackers: I've included your list as you are the most likely to know of problems in developing drivers. I (and the freebsd-advocacy list) have been exchanging email with Mr. James Love, and assistant to Ralph Nader, as they prepare a letter to the US DOJ about the ability of "alternative operating systems" to compete with Microsoft, when the national computer manufacturers charge you for a Microsoft OS even if you don't want it. Please provide any information you can. Reply directly to me; I will cc: the -advocacy list on the letter I send to Mr. Love. Thanks in advance for your help. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 08:29:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08482 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08476 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id RAA01747 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:29:10 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:22:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think it's good to have a short list of "highly desirable" packages > in a list right at install time, but leave the full list for after > the user gets past that first reboot. And by having an initial short > list, we could perhaps make sure that all packages on that short list > are on the first CD-ROM (the CD a user boots off to do an install). > > Just my thoughts, after my first-ever installs of FreeBSD... Good thinking! Short list that would be appropriate for systems we have here: a2ps acroread + it's dependencies in linux-emu (fvwm in default) apache bash ghostscript + ghostview (manuals!) gmake-3.75 less lynx perl5 pine or elm unzip vim (what would life be without Bram Molenaar :-) zip This list is what we I found on almost all the systems we have here (mostly web systems and software development machines). And the dependencies for these packages should be included as well. Ask one question that says: 'Install default packages (YES/no)' and of you go. Even the quick guys that want a minimal setup will be happy. Another thing: Maybe someone (why is everybody pointing at me ??) should invest some time and create a number of package-packages, profiles of packages mostly used together/weak dependencies. Like: X interactive user: olvwm, xv, acroread, gvim, gnuplot, xearth, xroaches, etc. Programmer: perl, xxgdb, vim, etc. Web system: perl, apache, msql, trafshow, vim, etc. Console user: mh, pine, elm, zsh, bash, vim, etc. etc. And you just tick a few profiles that sound about appropriate. The installation merges all the profiles into one big list of packages to install, asks for CD4 and does its job. Two things have to be done, the functionality for the profiles has to be added to sysinstall and the profiles have to be created. I have no idea how to do this (anyone with good ideas should tell me) and make sure that we get a reasonable set which might be usefull and can go on the next SNAP CD, but I have no problem in being the centre of gravity there. Nick Hibma. P.S.: And oh, by the way, guys, you're wonderfull. I spend about 14 hours (at work and home) a day behind a computer running FreeBSD and love every second of it. P.P.S.: Microsoft: Why use so many buttons on a keyboard when choice is so much simpler with a 2 button mouse? :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 08:31:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09012 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from karon.dynas.se (karon.dynas.se [192.71.43.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08956 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mikko@dynas.se) Received: (qmail 28394 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1998 15:30:48 -0000 Received: from spirit.sto.dynas.se (HELO spirit) (172.16.1.10) by karon.dynas.se with SMTP; 17 Jun 1998 15:30:48 -0000 Received: by spirit (Smail3.1.28.1 #32) id m0ymKAh-000JezC; Wed, 17 Jun 98 17:30:47 +0200 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:30:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mikko_Ty=F6l=E4j=E4rvi?= X-Sender: mikko@spirit.dynas.se Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mikko_Ty=F6l=E4j=E4rvi?= To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problem with ld.so + LD_PRELOAD + _init() Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Fiddling around with LD_PRELOAD and wrapping of system calls, I discovered that the "_init()" function of the preloaded lib never gets called. It is not entirely clear from the man-page that it should be, but on Solaris 2.[56], it is. And it works for libraries linked with the program, as well as libraries loaded with dlopen(). Also, it sometimes makes life a lot easier... A quick look in rtld.c seems to indicate that _init() functions are called in order by traversing the dependency graph, starting from the main program. But preloaded libraries are never added to this graph, so they never get initialized. Preloaded libs are included in the library search order though, so except for _init() never being called, it works as expected. This is true on both 2.2.6 and CURRENT as of Jun, 12. The question is whether this is intentional or not? /Mikko P.S. Below is a little sh-kludge that demonstrates the problem on both FreeBSD and Solaris 2.[56] (with gcc). Mikko Tyo"la"ja"rvi________________________________mikko@securitydynamics.com SecurityDynamics #!/bin/sh set -e test -d inittest || mkdir inittest cd inittest PWD=`pwd` # Tiny lib cat > lib.c << \EOF void _init() { printf("\t_init()\n"); } EOF # Equally tiny program cat > prog.c << \EOF int main() { printf("\tmain()\n"); return 0; } EOF # Program explicitly using dlopen() cat > dprog.c << \EOF #include int main() { void *handle; printf("\tmain()\n"); handle = dlopen("./lib.so", RTLD_LAZY); if (!handle) printf("\tdlopen failed\n"); return 0; } EOF gcc -fpic -c lib.c case `uname` in FreeBSD) DLLIB= ld -Bshareable -Bforcearchive -o lib.so lib.o;; SunOS) DLLIB=-ldl ld -G -z text -o lib.so lib.o;; *) echo "Wrong OS"; exit 1;; esac rm -f libinittest.so.1.0 libinittest.so ln -s lib.so libinittest.so.1.0 ln -s lib.so libinittest.so echo "Linked (I expect: _init + main):" gcc -o libprog prog.c -L$PWD -Xlinker -R$PWD -linittest ./libprog echo "Explicit use of dlopen (I expect main + _init):" gcc -o dprog dprog.c $DLLIB ./dprog echo "Preloaded (I expect: _init + main):" gcc -o nullprog prog.c LD_PRELOAD=$PWD/lib.so ./nullprog || exit 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 08:33:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA09524 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09500 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:33:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id RAA01875; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:33:21 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:27:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Garance A Drosihn cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was thinking more towards a short list of things that a newbie > (or almost anyone) would need within a few hours of starting a > fresh install. The "just to get going" packages, not the "this > is what we run on our production machines" packages. Many of > the things you listed do make sense for a "just to get going" > list, but certainly things like apache are not needed early in > the game. And I'd argue that for something like apache you > might want to download and build the latest version anyway (I > know I would), so there's no point in installing the package > version just to replace it a few hours later. That is true, but the idea of profiles and a more copious choice of what you might want to install is not a bad idea either I think. But for the initial installation before a package manager shows up, maybe you are right. That should be kept clean and nice and simple. But if bash is in the list, aren't people going to argue that jbsh (Joe Bloe's shell) should be in that list as well? Bash is pretty standard but anyway.... > > And oh, by the way, guys, you're wonderfull. I spend about > > 14 hours (at work and home) a day behind a computer running > > FreeBSD and love every second of it. > > Also, your message sounds like you were writing it to the > entire mailing list, but you only sent it to me... Hm, well, maybe I should use one of those MS tools that send it to the entire world by default in Word format with a picture of me included. Nah... Thanks. Corrected. STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 09:16:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17191 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:16:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17142 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA69562; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:16:09 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:19:52 -0400 To: Nick Hibma From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 5:27 PM +0200 6/17/98, Nick Hibma wrote: > Garance wrote to Nick, in response to a message that Nick sent > to Garance (but was mistakenly not sent to the hackers list): > > I was thinking more towards a short list of things that a newbie > > (or almost anyone) would need within a few hours of starting a > > fresh install. The "just to get going" packages, not the "this > > is what we run on our production machines" packages. Many of > > the things you listed do make sense for a "just to get going" > > list, but certainly things like apache are not needed early in > > the game. And I'd argue that for something like apache you > > might want to download and build the latest version anyway (I > > know I would), so there's no point in installing the package > > version just to replace it a few hours later. > > That is true, but the idea of profiles and a more copious choice of > what you might want to install is not a bad idea either I think. I think it is a "slippery slope", as each of us has a different collection of packages which we feel are important for machines once we have them setup as a production service. If we start down this path, we will probably end up just reorganizing the ports list, whereas what I'm hoping for is a very short list of packages which are displayed during the initial install time. > But for the initial installation before a package manager shows up, > maybe you are right. That should be kept clean and nice and simple. > But if bash is in the list, aren't people going to argue that jbsh > (Joe Bloe's shell) should be in that list as well? I would expect most shells will be on this "short list". As part of the install process the user going to be asked to create some personal ID's, and that account-creation will work better if the shell is already installed. Shells are an example of a package that you "need" (if you're really used to some particular shell) even before the install process itself is over. I just mentioned bash because that's the shell I "need". Obviously I can get by using other shells, but it only takes about five minutes before I start missing shell features which I'm pretty used to. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 10:07:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA24465 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:07:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24447 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id TAA04567; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:07:32 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:01:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Garance A Drosihn cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > That is true, but the idea of profiles and a more copious choice of > > what you might want to install is not a bad idea either I think. > > I think it is a "slippery slope", as each of us has a different > collection of packages which we feel are important for machines > once we have them setup as a production service. If we start down > this path, we will probably end up just reorganizing the ports list, > whereas what I'm hoping for is a very short list of packages which > are displayed during the initial install time. Let's separate between two different issues. One, the more important and urgent one: your point of creating a list of packages which should be optional but most probably necessary on a newly installed system. You mention bash as an example, perl5 is another one. Add a tick box in one of the installation menus and add the packages to the CD and you are done. The more room on the CD the more packages you can add to that list if you like. The idea of profiles is the other one and as you say, it is a slippery slope. Most people install the operating system for the first time to try and if they have the feeling that they are being coached through the process and been given choices that they can easily understand, they'll probably have a better feeling about what is happening to them. Profiles you can see as different views on the database of packages available. You can already see this if you look at the way the packages are structured now. The point is that you can select a number of profiles that suite you. They might overlap, for example web, mail and software development, but you have a preselection of packages which should fullfill most your intended uses. Enhancing the profiles with relations makes it even more sexy. For example, installing MSQL on a development system that also has perl installed could trigger the adding perl5-msql. Having selected X and ghostscript makes it invitable to install ghostview as well. An idea is to collect a lot of pkg_info -aI lists and see if you can use statistics to guess what someone might want to install as well. Taking into account the available disk space and using the statistical analysis to rank the automatically added packages would keep the thing from installing too many things. REQUEST: I hereby post a request for pkg_info -aI listings of FBSD machines. Please add in the subject PKGINFO. That makes the message more of an object that _just_knows_ which mail folder to go to. The following should do: pkg_info -aI | mail -s "PKGINFO `hostname`" nick.hibma@jrc.it should do the trick. And, someone has said this (I cannot remember his name), there should be a step in between the installation of the base system (O sys and basic functionality /usr/bin and packages) and the installation of the packages through selection/profiles/whatever. In contrast to MicroDollar there is a difference between the operating system and the user interface. A remark about the fact that the operating system and base functionality (including the item above, the packages on CD 1) has been completely installed and that he now can continue with the installation of added functionality if he wishes to do so, should be added. To avoid the problem Garance had when installing FreeBSD (supposedly nuking his fresh installation during the installation of XFree) maybe some consolidation stage should be added (reboot) after dumping a README on what to do next to the screen/to more. Shouldn't we force a reboot to make sure we run off a decent medium (common guys, one reboot is not the end of the world! :-) Is it at all possible to install XFree at that stage, because of the lack of swap and RO /usr partition? > I would expect most shells will be on this "short list". As part of the > install process the user going to be asked to create some personal ID's, Account creation is a good one as well for the initial setup phase. At least you can log in as user root with a password or as someone else. It makes it feel more like home instead of a black hole. > shell I "need". Obviously I can get by using other shells, but it > only takes about five minutes before I start missing shell features > which I'm pretty used to. The cursor jumping all over the place when pressing tab, very annoying, yes. :-) Someone who has the CD1 handy should tell us how much space is left there before we embark on listing all our favourite toys. Nick Hibma STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 27A tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 10:50:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01479 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:50:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (root@mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01364 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA101694; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:49:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:53:38 -0400 To: Nick Hibma From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:01 PM +0200 6/17/98, Nick Hibma wrote: > Let's separate between two different issues. One, the more important > and urgent one: your point of creating a list of packages which should > be optional but most probably necessary on a newly installed system. That's not quite the way I'd describe my goal. I want a short list of packages (presumably things from the ports collection) available as part of the very initial install process. This list would only include packages which are very likely to be needed (at least by some users) almost immediately after that first system reboot. Just as importantly, I do *not* want the initial install to present a user with a list of 1000 packages which they "may" want to install. All those packages can be dealt with after that first system reboot. I think it is counterproductive to present people with the complete list when they are doing a fresh install. > The idea of profiles is the other one and as you say, it is a > slippery slope. The idea of profiles seems reasonable to me, I just wouldn't pop them up as part of the initial system install process. When I did my first freebsd installs, I would have been better off (I think) if fewer choices presented themselves to me until after the install was done. > To avoid the problem Garance had when installing FreeBSD (supposedly > nuking his fresh installation during the installation of XFree), maybe > some consolidation stage should be added (reboot) after dumping a > README on what to do next to the screen/to more. Just to clarify a little bit, I didn't have a problem due to installing XFree, I had it when I went to configure XFree during the install. It was I who decided to nuke the installation after that, because I wasn't sure where in the process I was. I don't want to leave the impression that XFree nuked anything that had already been installed. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 11:20:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07049 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07016; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:20:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20318; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA06262; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:19:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199806171819.LAA06262@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: Filesystem Development Toolkit In-Reply-To: from Michael Hancock at "Jun 17, 98 08:18:55 pm" To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Michael Hancock: > On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Michael Hancock wrote: > > > Poul Henning-Kamp, Julian Elisher, David Greenman, Bruce Evans, Peter > > Wemm, Doug Rabson, Tor Egge, Luoqi Chen, and Simon Shapiro. > > > > I mention Simon Shapiro because he has been working on a DLM and many of > > the concepts are similar but generalized to not just locks, but also data > > pages and file attributes. It's interesting to note that John Heidemann's > > experimental versions did not include locks and was not distributed. It > > just used the existing vnode locking implementation and interfaced with > > other distributed protocols such as NFS, etc. > > > > Of course, if some lurker out there were to take on this challenge that > > would be pretty cool too. > > Oh, and how could I forget, Terry Lambert would also have a lot of ideas > in this area as well or he might just yak and be a general pain in the > ass. ;-) which is about all I have time to do these days. > > If Terry's FS-based Unicode support would fit into this, it'd be interesting. So far I'm working on localizations via the locale catalogs. This may be a short-term solution and a broader, global solution may be a FS with wchar_t support. Any thoughts; or am I too far off-course? gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 11:48:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10982 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:48:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dmo.starnets.ro (async56.starnets.ro [193.226.61.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10972 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dano@starnets.ro) Received: from dmo.starnets.ro (tag.0.0.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by dmo.starnets.ro (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00294 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:48:34 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <35880F81.41C67EA6@starnets.ro> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:48:33 +0300 From: Dan Ontanu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sound. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does someone know which is the appropriate driver for a Creative AWE64 sound card? sb0 plus sbxvi0? or, a special (eventually new) one? Another question is if there exists some decent software for recording and editing wave files (not necesarily .WAV ones)? I only know "mxv" but it asks for a library which seems to be related to Interviews software suite. Best regards to all of you, Dan Ontanu. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 11:55:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12081 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:55:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from papillon.lemis.com (rider.dunham.org [207.170.123.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12073 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:55:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id LAA00631; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:19:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980617111928.14575@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:19:28 -0500 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: Bruce Evans , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/dev/slice slice_base.c References: <19980615131558.32993@papillon.lemis.com> <199806170449.VAA00856@antipodes.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199806170449.VAA00856@antipodes.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 09:49:02PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 16 June 1998 at 21:49:02 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> (moved from cvs-* to -hackers) >> >> On Mon, 15 June 1998 at 18:10:58 +1000, Bruce Evans wrote: >>>> No, disklabel depends on the 'old' slice ioctls, which are dead and >>>> gone. We're still stuck waiting on the new toolchain, although if >>> >>> No, disklabel depends on the very old label ioctls, which are standard. >> >> I have to agree on this one. Individual programs should make no >> assumptions about the location of a disk label. It could even be >> stored separately, so that reading the slice could never return the >> label. Does anybody have objections to the "old" ioctls? > > Hmm. I'd have to say that the major problem is that the disklabel > ioctls only deal with disklabels. These were extended later when the > slice stuff came in, but the "new paradigm" would make this a little > amusing (you could slice a partition which was part of a slice... ad > infinitum). I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. This is exactly the reason for using the ioctls. They could be generated by an intermediate layer, for example, and not stored anywhere on disk. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 12:25:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17032 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:25:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firebat.wolfepub.com (firebat.wolfepub.com [206.250.193.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17023; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Received: from ricecake.fastnet0.net (niu-ppp180.triton.net [209.172.4.180]) by firebat.wolfepub.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA07033; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980617153107.03161448@wolfepub.com> X-Sender: matthew@wolfepub.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:31:07 -0400 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: ed: device broken!? (was Re: ed1: device timeout?) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, Sorry for the cross-post to hackers, but this has been kicking around on questions for a day or two with no resolution. I have tried everything suggested to me but nothing helps. Does anyone know if there is a problem with the ed: device driver on 2.2.6-R? I have a PCI NIC that was giving me a ed1: timeout error. I have removed *every* card in the system except the video card (on the ISA bus), changed cables twice, and set the NIC to every IRQ available on the system. I even disabled the serial and parallel ports to be able to use those IRQs. But here is the clincher... I took out the PCI NIC and put in a real Novell/Eagle NE2000 ISA NIC. It is jumper-less so I used the DOS utility that came with the card to set the IRQ and base address. Then I booted with the GENERIC kernel and set ed0: to the correct settings. Now for the big kick in the a**. Both cards, the PCI and ISA NIC are both NE2000, so they both use the ed: device and *both* cards give me the ed: timeout error!! By this time I was banging my head on everything in reach. I have another ISA NIC (a 3Com) that uses the ep: device and it works fine. Anyone else having problems like this? The MB is an ASUS-Tech SPG3 (yes it is a 486). Intel-DX2-66, 24MB RAM, 4 ISA, 3 PCI, onboard IDE and SCSI (both of which can be disabled). I have been running FreeBSD on it for about 2 years and this is the first time I have had any problems. Thanks Matthew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 12:47:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA22346 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from trauco.colomsat.net.co ([200.13.195.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22271; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from y-carden@uniandes.edu.co) Received: from [206.156.157.194] ([206.156.157.194]) by trauco.colomsat.net.co (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA00075; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:36:22 +0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <35881EB2.97877590@uniandes.edu.co> Received: from [172.20.100.66] by [206.156.157.194] via smtpd (for trauco.colomsat.net.co [200.13.195.2]) with SMTP; 17 Jun 1997 19:47:00 UT Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:53:22 -0500 From: "Yonny Crdenas Barn" Organization: Panamco Indega S.A X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG CC: hackers Subject: Floppies for SCO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Eagle-Notice: Sender not 8-bit clean in 'From: \"Yonny C\341rdenas Bar\363n\" ' Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have a program for SCO, I desire run this program in FreeBSD 2.2.5 with SCO emulation, the program is distributed in floppies of 3 1/2", but I not know mount this floppies. I attempt whith : "mount /dev/fd0 /mnt" but is fail. In SCO I have run the program "custom" or "sysadmsh" for install from floppies. Thanks for your help. ------------------------------------ YONNY CARDENAS B. e-mail: y-carden@uniandes.edu.co To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 13:14:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27136 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:14:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27119 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:14:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA14425; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:14:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Snob Art Genre Reply-To: ben@rosengart.com To: Garance A Drosihn cc: Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: 2.2.6 CD-ROM : Package dependencies up the creek ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > Shells are an example of a package that you "need" (if > you're really used to some particular shell) even before the install > process itself is over. I just mentioned bash because that's the > shell I "need". Obviously I can get by using other shells, but it > only takes about five minutes before I start missing shell features > which I'm pretty used to. I feel the same way about zsh. I would be happier if the install process were kept shell-agnostic, for what it's worth. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 13:20:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28035 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28013; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02618; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:20:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd002582; Wed Jun 17 13:20:31 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26615; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:20:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806172020.NAA26615@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Filesystem Development Toolkit To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:20:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Jun 17, 98 08:09:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ ... NTFS ... ] > In FreeBSD a partially implemented framework exists, but it needs to be > cleaned up. There are 2 major problems with it now: > > 1) There are ref counting and locking layering violations in the code. > I've cleaned these up for everything except vop_rename, vop_mknod, and > vop_symlink so far. > > 2) There is no object coherence management done. This is a more serious > problem that is inherent in any stacked design where you want to cache > objects, data, and attributes in different layers that represent a file. I can not emphasize the interactions with an NTFS implementation that results from these two errors enough. Linux has a read-only NTFS, and will not be able to implement an actual read-write NTFS without a major overhaul of their VFS/VOP interface. FreeBSD also needs an overhaul, but it is somewhat less dire. At one point in time I had a loaner PPC that I was doing a FreeBSD port on; this port suffered when I had to look for paying work, and returned the machine. The machine was running AIX, and I has the PPC booting (via PPCBug, not OpenBoot) into a single user system. I was able to mount and access an AIX JFS, which has many of the same issues as NTFS, or SGI's XFS (or, to a lesser extent, Veritas's VXFS -- lesser because VXFS's directory management code was SVR4 UFS derived). The main isue here is that VOP_ABORTOP is not used correctly in FreeBSD's VFS interface. It is used to recover cn_pnbuf's allocated by the caller (ie: it is not reflexive). For file systems which are, in effect, transaction interfaces, such as journalling or log stuctured FS's, the VOP_ABORTOP needs to, in fact, actually be capable of aborting a transaction that spans a number of VOP calls. Such as VOP_LOOKUP calls that result in the allocation of a directory entry slot for later use by a rename, mknod, or link operation, or slot locks for use by unlink and rename. Add to this that VOP_ABORTOP is not called in the correct places because of self-freeing the cn_pnbuf by operations that should tag the operation as complete. VOP_ABORTOP needs to be VOP_TRANSACT, needs to take a "BEGIN", "COMMIT", or "ABORT". The "BEGIN" needs to return a transaction ID to the caller, which is provided as a context argument to the other VOP's ... in most cases, this transaction identifier will be an opaque reference to a proc pointer; for NTFS, it needs to be a real transaction, where the proc pointer is a member. In other words, this is about as FS specific as TFS's vnodes. > This will require taking a hard look at the top half of the kernel code > where calls are made to things like vop_rdwr, mmap, vop_{put|get}pages and > the implementation themselves to properly design it. In a layered > environment you need to make sure that operations are either done on the > same vnode of a file or you need a cache_mgr to manage coherence between > the cached objects hanging off of all the vnodes that represent the file. Yes. But one of the main benefits of FreeBSD over NetBSD is the unification of the coherency model. I really think that the code sould be using macrotized VM calls, such that coherency can be enforced automatically in a unified VM, and manually in a non-unified or partially unified (like NetBSD's UVM) VM system. The real issue here is portability of the FS code without dependency on the host kernel implementation. > One reason that I'd like to see a user-space layer implemented is that it > would represent an extra requirement in the design of the solution to the > problems in 2) above. i.e. Instead of putting in VM calls here and there > you would be forced to think of a cleaner solution, otherwise you will > have to implement a lot of weird system calls to emulate those VM calls. Right. The coherency model for such an inteface requires that the interface be reflexive. For a user space implementation, the FS can replace the VM macro references with a wrapper to proxy pseudo VM obects into and out of the kernel. This is another major impetus to making the interfaces reflexive, such that if you call something with a buffer you allocate, then *you* expected to perform the deallocation. You can't proxy a deallocation of a cn_pnbuf in user space if you allocated the thing in the kernel. The one exception allowed is locks, which are objects which are "held". They are in a different abstraction domain. Locks are already abstract in that they are opaque, and you must use operators against them. You can operate on an abstract interface using proxies all you want, and never break anything. Path name buffers and vnodes need to be similary abstract. For vnodes, this means that a proxied interface must manage the data portion of the vnodes itself, as an abstract object. This is somewhat different than the current FreeBSD model, though there are non-integrated patches (not by me) that clean this up somewhat. You would then need to macrotize vnode allocations and releases from a common pool the same way, to allow the pool to be proxied into user space. Right now, FreeBSD is not in a good position to support user space FS developement. Some work is needed to make intermediate stacking layer developement possible. For bottom level device access, which is what a local media FS, like NTFS or FFS have to do, there are over 120 kernel interfaces being imported. That's 120 interfaces to proxy. Some of these are as simple as each and every FS calling the same kernel interface using a address of a local opject ("inode") to implement an abstract data reference (vnode->inode->ref), instead of hanging the reference off the vnode directly (vnode->ref). A direct hanging would allow the kernel interface to use the default VOP's (which breaks layer collapse, and are therefore evil), or, better, put the common calls in common code, and invert the call to make it veto-based. This would preserve the ability to collapse null VOPs in N layers to one layer of function calls, without having to implement null layer stub functions for coherency (this is currently what Tor Egge's patches to null FS do to workaround the interface problems -- the nullfs isn't very "null" after that). Either approach, however, reduces the number of kernel interfaces an FS must consume to be a fullimplementation, and therefore reduces the number of interfaces which must be proied to user space, and back again. > If you implemented a cache_mgr then you could reduce the number of system > calls you would need to implement and use in your user-land emulation of > the kernel APIs. This is a proxy gateway as a single system call, with a large number of proxies. It would be much better to reduce the number of calls that must be proxied, or at least some combination of both (clearly, there must be a proxy gateway of some kind). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 13:33:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00324 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:33:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00288; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:33:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19956; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:33:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd019928; Wed Jun 17 13:33:13 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27289; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:33:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806172033.NAA27289@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Filesystem Development Toolkit To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:33:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Jun 17, 98 08:18:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Oh, and how could I forget, Terry Lambert would also have a lot of ideas > in this area as well or he might just yak and be a general pain in the > ass. ;-) which is about all I have time to do these days. It's always annoying when someone tells you your existing abstractions don't match your design documents, isn't it.? It's even more annoying when you don't have time to review the changes proposed to fix this with a suffient eye towrads the big picture that the changes actually make it in... }B-). Meanwhile, I still have a system with an OS image from June of last year that can support user space FS developement (but which would have a hell of a time with VM proxie, which would need a total rewrite) and a rudimentary GFS/JFS implementaiton that can read AIX disks enough to load /bin/sh. 8-P. I'm still willing to code if you're willing to commit. I guess FreeBSD -current can be though of as considerably stable at this point, so now is probably a good time to do this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 13:42:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02362 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02356 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:42:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23888; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023826; Wed Jun 17 13:42:18 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27665; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:42:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806172042.NAA27665@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Problem with ld.so + LD_PRELOAD + _init() To: mikko@dynas.se Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:42:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mikko_Ty=F6l=E4j=E4rvi?=" at Jun 17, 98 05:30:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Fiddling around with LD_PRELOAD and wrapping of system calls, I > discovered that the "_init()" function of the preloaded lib never gets > called. > > It is not entirely clear from the man-page that it should be, > but on Solaris 2.[56], it is. And it works for libraries linked with > the program, as well as libraries loaded with dlopen(). Also, it > sometimes makes life a lot easier... It should be called. If it is not called, pure virtual base class constructors won't be called for C++ shared objects. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 13:56:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04840 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (daemon@smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04774; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18054; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd018027; Wed Jun 17 13:56:04 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28313; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:55:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806172055.NAA28313@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Filesystem Development Toolkit To: kline@tao.thought.org (Gary Kline) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:55:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: michaelh@cet.co.jp, Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199806171819.LAA06262@tao.thought.org> from "Gary Kline" at Jun 17, 98 11:19:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If Terry's FS-based Unicode support would fit into this, > it'd be interesting. So far I'm working on localizations > via the locale catalogs. This may be a short-term solution > and a broader, global solution may be a FS with wchar_t > support. > > Any thoughts; or am I too far off-course? Unicode cn_pnbuf code is part of the problem for the NTFS, which, like VFAT, has multiple namespaces which must be kept coherent, and whose coherency can't be implemented via late-binding. The bigger problem here is that nameidata structure is not treated as relatively opaque, except for the name spaces an FS is interested in accessing. Because the cn_pnbuf is freed at random locations in the kernel, this dictates implementation for VOP's which utilize the nameidata, such as VOP_LOOKUP, VOP_RENAME, VOP_LINK, VOP_CREATE, VOP_UNLINK, etc.. In order to be able to deal with both the Unicode and the DOS code page based 8.3 name at the same time, the path needs to be broken up into a parsed path structure, wherein seperate components are grouped. For the initial case, where we are still passing an 8 bit string to those system calls that take paths, the easies conversionis a direct mapping to code page 0 (ISO 8859-1) in the Unicode 16/8 set (or the ISO 10646 32/8 set). System calls that operate purely on Unicode objects can come later, and the legacy support can be pushed into libc (open( 8bit:8859-1, ) -> uopen( 16bit:Unicode, )) later. POSIX compatability is an issue that can be dealt with in the library. Alternately, a wchar_t encoding could have a "magic" introducer that is prepended to strings, and ignored except when the strings are passed to system calls (open( char *) vs. open( wchar_t *) prototpyes, as in c++ namespace overlaoding). Maybe "0wchar_t0 r e a l s t r i n g" for strings declared "wide". (_W"realstring"). It doesn't really matter; it depend on who you want to take the hit (I prefer hitting th old code). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 14:37:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12271 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA12265; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:37:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA20840 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:49:23 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id WAA02629; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:08:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806172008.WAA02629@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: ed: device broken!? (was Re: ed1: device timeout?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980617153107.03161448@wolfepub.com> from Matthew Hagerty at "Jun 17, 98 03:31:07 pm" To: matthew@wolfepub.com (Matthew Hagerty) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:08:38 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Matthew Hagerty wrote... > Greetings, > > Sorry for the cross-post to hackers, but this has been kicking around on > questions for a day or two with no resolution. I have tried everything > suggested to me but nothing helps. > > Does anyone know if there is a problem with the ed: device driver on > 2.2.6-R? I have a PCI NIC that was giving me a ed1: timeout error. I have Well, my NE2000 ISA clone in an Asus T2P4 works fine. ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 10 on isa ed0: address 00:00:24:06:32:56, type NE2000 (16 bit) Just a datapoint. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 15:16:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20195 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:16:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20170; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michaelh@cet.co.jp) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.8/CET-v2.2) with SMTP id WAA08666; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:15:23 GMT Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 07:15:23 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem Development Toolkit In-Reply-To: <199806172020.NAA26615@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, there are 3 problems: 1) Refcounting and locking layering violations remaining in 3 vops. 2) cn_path freeing layering violations. 3) vnode object coherence. 1 and 2 are in the same class of complexity, mostly grunt work but still requires someone reasonably knowledgeable of the bsd file systems. A solution to 3 that allows you to take advantage of caching at different layers is the tough one. An easier solution is to never cache, but always proxy to the right object. Heidemann has a nice paper on the tough solution, but it's hard to verify that a hands free approach to locking and distributed operations is correct. Which is why I'd like to look at Simon's DLM. Regards, Mike Hancock To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 16:21:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00780 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:21:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firebat.wolfepub.com (firebat.wolfepub.com [206.250.193.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00758 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Received: from ricecake.fastnet0.net (niu-ppp180.triton.net [209.172.4.180]) by firebat.wolfepub.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA25307 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980617192730.0317ea80@wolfepub.com> X-Sender: matthew@wolfepub.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:27:30 -0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: ed: device broken!? (was Re: ed1: device timeout?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, Sorry for the cross-post to hackers, but this has been kicking around on questions for a day or two with no resolution. I have tried everything suggested to me but nothing helps. Does anyone know if there is a problem with the ed: device driver on 2.2.6-R? I have a PCI NIC that was giving me a ed1: timeout error. I have removed *every* card in the system except the video card (on the ISA bus), changed cables twice, and set the NIC to every IRQ available on the system. I even disabled the serial and parallel ports to be able to use those IRQs. But here is the clincher... I took out the PCI NIC and put in a real Novell/Eagle NE2000 ISA NIC. It is jumper-less so I used the DOS utility that came with the card to set the IRQ and base address. Then I booted with the GENERIC kernel and set ed0: to the correct settings. Now for the big kick in the a**. Both cards, the PCI and ISA NIC are both NE2000, so they both use the ed: device and *both* cards give me the ed: timeout error!! By this time I was banging my head on everything in reach. I have another ISA NIC (a 3Com) that uses the ep: device and it works fine. Anyone else having problems like this? The MB is an ASUS-Tech SPG3 (yes it is a 486). Intel-DX2-66, 24MB RAM, 4 ISA, 3 PCI, onboard IDE and SCSI (both of which can be disabled). I have been running FreeBSD on it for about 2 years and this is the first time I have had any problems. Thanks Matthew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 16:23:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01155 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com (gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA01126; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:23:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewayb.anheuser-busch.com; id SAA09265; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:22:03 -0500 Received: from stlabcexg003.anheuser-busch.com( 151.145.101.158) by gatewayb via smap (V2.1) id xma009156; Wed, 17 Jun 98 18:21:43 -0500 Received: by STLABCEXG003 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:19:57 -0500 Message-ID: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF9017765EF@STLABCEXG011> From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'johnh@isi.edu'" Cc: "'FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "'Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "Smallie, Scott" Subject: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:21:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sun Microsystems has apparently freed the 4.1.1 binary distribution. It is available from: http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ It is conceivable that Sun may be persuaded to release the sources for a fee a la SCO's "Ancient Versions" source license. If so, we FreeBeasties could benifit from the mature SunOS 4.1.1 stackable filesystem code. Maybe we should pester them. Matthew Alton Computer Services - UNIX Systems Administration (314)632-6644 matthew.alton@anheuser-busch.com alton@plantnet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 18:13:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18204 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA18197; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:13:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp id AA07015; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:13:04 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id KAA04952; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:22:10 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Randall Hopper Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:41:16 -0400." <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> References: <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:22:06 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, sorry for late response. I am terribly tied to my work these days. > Here's a kernel/moused(8) patch to -current that adds "X-10 Mouse Remote" >support to moused: > > http://multiverse.com/~rhh/moused.x10remote.patch.gz > >(it's also enclosed in the Fxtv-0.47 source package). See: > > http://www.x10.com/products/x10_mk19a.htm > >for details on this product. > > The patch supports using the X10 Mouse Remote in both stand-alone and >pass-through configurations, so you can plug your mouse and remote into the >same serial port, use the mouse for X, and use the remote for other apps >like Fxtv. > > The mouse events are channeled through the syscons/sysmouse I/F like >normal, and the remote buttons are "syphoned off" to a UNIX-domain stream >socket (defined as _PATH_MOUSEREMOTE in ) for a >remote-aware app to grab and use. > > Hope you find this useful. > >Randall I have looked at your patch and X10's web site. I know Amacio has already committed the change to the source tree. But, I would like to know if we can make `moused' to detect the device automatically. I understand the receiver of this device can be attached to either a seial port or the PS/2 mouse port. Do you know if the device supports PnP COM device standard? What if you start `moused' like the following when you connect it to a serial port? What does it print? moused -d -i all -p /dev/cuaa0 Have you ever tried to connect the receiver to the PS/2 mouse port? If so, would you show us the output from `dmesg' after booting the system with the `-v' option at the `boot:' prompt? Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 18:57:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23260 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:57:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (daemon@smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23240; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:57:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23554; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023462; Wed Jun 17 18:56:55 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA07446; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:56:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199806180156.SAA07446@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 To: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com (Alton, Matthew) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 01:56:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: johnh@isi.edu, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF9017765EF@STLABCEXG011> from "Alton, Matthew" at Jun 17, 98 06:21:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Sun Microsystems has apparently freed the 4.1.1 binary distribution. It is > available from: > http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ > > It is conceivable that Sun may be persuaded to release the sources for a fee > a la SCO's "Ancient Versions" source license. If so, we FreeBeasties could > benifit from the mature SunOS 4.1.1 stackable filesystem code. Maybe we > should pester them. This distrubtion is *only* for Sun3 hardware. The distributor admits to taking the risk upon himself of distributing the binary images without the legal consent of Sun Microsystems. The SunOS code contains a VFS implementation, but does not contain a stacking vnode architecture (even though Rosental's stacking research was under the auspices of Sun Microsystems). I think you are reading too much into SunOS's "union" and "translucent" mount capabilities, which are less related to a stacking architecture than they are to special one-off implementation. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 20:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01988 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (static222.conference.usenix.org [204.119.186.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01944 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@antipodes.cdrom.com) Received: from antipodes.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antipodes.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00361; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806180156.SAA00361@antipodes.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Matthew Hagerty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ed: device broken!? (was Re: ed1: device timeout?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:27:30 EDT." <3.0.3.32.19980617192730.0317ea80@wolfepub.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 18:56:44 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does anyone know if there is a problem with the ed: device driver on > 2.2.6-R? I have a PCI NIC that was giving me a ed1: timeout error. I have > removed *every* card in the system except the video card (on the ISA bus), > changed cables twice, and set the NIC to every IRQ available on the system. > I even disabled the serial and parallel ports to be able to use those IRQs. > > But here is the clincher... I took out the PCI NIC and put in a real > Novell/Eagle NE2000 ISA NIC. It is jumper-less so I used the DOS utility > that came with the card to set the IRQ and base address. Then I booted > with the GENERIC kernel and set ed0: to the correct settings. Now for the > big kick in the a**. Both cards, the PCI and ISA NIC are both NE2000, so > they both use the ed: device and *both* cards give me the ed: timeout > error!! By this time I was banging my head on everything in reach. I have > another ISA NIC (a 3Com) that uses the ep: device and it works fine. Sounds like marginal cabling, or a persistent configuration error. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 20:08:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02904 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02876 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:07:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA07321 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:07:06 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA27243; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:07:21 +0800 Message-Id: <199806180307.LAA27243@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Clusters, Distributed File Systems and the like. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:07:21 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm wondering if anyone has done some work on a distributed file system, where various nodes are each responsible for part of a filesystem and can see other node's part of the filesystem, with files being able to span more than one node. I think Greg Lehey's work (vinum) could be used as part of a solution. The reason I ask is that I'm working for a geophysics data processing company, and we have all the 32 & 64 node IBM SP2 boxes floating about. Each node runs its own copy of AIX and has a couple of 9Gb disks, of which one is for the OS and the other is for the CFS (Common File System) which is shared between all the nodes in a system. It struck me as an interesting problem which has probably been solved a number of times. I'm in the process of porting our geophysical software to FreeBSD, which currently uses PVM and will soon be using MPI to distribute the processes among the nodes. I'm not expecting the performance to be within cooee of the SP2s, but it's an interesting exercide all the same. Stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 21:35:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14706 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:35:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14695 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from krewat@erols.com) Received: from kilonet.net (krewat.erols.com [209.122.47.140]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA07751 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kilowatt(really [199.89.231.227]) by kilonet.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:35:33 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #3 built 1998-May-10) Message-ID: <35889915.15FB7483@erols.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:35:33 -0400 From: Arthur Krewat X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: stuck in a recv/read call? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a multi-threaded TCP application that runs great under Solaris 2.6. It uses POSIX multi-threads and works as predicted. I have it running under FreeBSD, and after a few problems, got it working. However, after three (yes three and ALWAYS three!) it'll get stuck in a recv or read (tried both!), sucking up CPU time. With or without other FD's open, etc. etc. When it hits the third socket, it always dies with this. I know this can be my own code that's killing me and it's something with the cross-platform thing, but WHAT can cause a read/recv to spin it's wheels? I am compiling with -lc_r and -D_THREAD_SAFE ... am I missing something here? I like FreeBSD - been running it for years now... this is the first time I've come up against something that wasn't a standard thing. -- Art Krewat krewat*NoSpAm*@erols.com Remove obvious anti-spam string from email address when replying. SPAM (unsolicitied email) FORBIDDEN. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 21:53:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA16761 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA16746 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA13497; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:59:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199806180459.OAA13497@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: stuck in a recv/read call? In-Reply-To: <35889915.15FB7483@erols.com> from Arthur Krewat at "Jun 18, 98 00:35:33 am" To: krewat@erols.com (Arthur Krewat) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:59:24 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Arthur Krewat wrote: > I have it running under FreeBSD, and after a few problems, got it > working. > > However, after three (yes three and ALWAYS three!) it'll get stuck > in a recv or read (tried both!), sucking up CPU time. With or without > other FD's open, etc. etc. When it hits the third socket, it always > dies with this. > > I know this can be my own code that's killing me and it's something > with the cross-platform thing, but WHAT can cause a read/recv to > spin it's wheels? What version of FreeBSD? -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 22:04:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA17920 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA17900 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from krewat@erols.com) Received: from kilonet.net (krewat.erols.com [209.122.47.140]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA25472; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 01:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kilowatt(really [199.89.231.227]) by kilonet.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 01:03:24 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #3 built 1998-May-10) Message-ID: <35889F9C.1CFBAE39@erols.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 01:03:24 -0400 From: Arthur Krewat X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Birrell CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stuck in a recv/read call? References: <199806180459.OAA13497@cimlogic.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Birrell wrote: > > Arthur Krewat wrote: > > I have it running under FreeBSD, and after a few problems, got it > > working. > > > > However, after three (yes three and ALWAYS three!) it'll get stuck > > in a recv or read (tried both!), sucking up CPU time. With or without > > other FD's open, etc. etc. When it hits the third socket, it always > > dies with this. > > > > I know this can be my own code that's killing me and it's something > > with the cross-platform thing, but WHAT can cause a read/recv to > > spin it's wheels? > > What version of FreeBSD? > Sorry, it's late, it's 2.2.6, which was cvs'd up from 2.2.5, so everything in /usr/src was rebuilt. The 2.2.5-RELEASE was from the CD. thanks! -- Art Krewat krewat*NoSpAm*@erols.com Remove obvious anti-spam string from email address when replying. SPAM (unsolicitied email) FORBIDDEN. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 22:50:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23132 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:50:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bleep.ishiboo.com (user29706@bleep.ishiboo.com [199.79.133.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA23100 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:50:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nirva@ishiboo.com) Received: (qmail 2619 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Jun 1998 05:50:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19980618015038.40458@bleep.ishiboo.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 01:50:38 -0400 From: Danny Dulai To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: Randall Hopper , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch References: <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>; from Kazutaka YOKOTA on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:22:06AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have looked at your patch and X10's web site. I know Amacio has > already committed the change to the source tree. But, I would like to > know if we can make `moused' to detect the device automatically. > > Do you know if the device supports PnP COM device standard? What if > you start `moused' like the following when you connect it to a serial > port? What does it print? > > moused -d -i all -p /dev/cuaa0 moused: cannot determine mouse type on /dev/cuaa1 When I use the x10remote type for moused, it seems to be a bit more jerky (but faster) than if I use microsoft. Any reason why? Randall, your moused patches will send the non mouse related data to the /var/run/MouseRemote socket, so I think that maybe I'll tackle this by writing remoted to read the socket instead of having remoted feeding moused. That sound good? I like the notion of being able to 'select' an application and then the bulk of keys can go there. I'll see what I can do this weekend. Also, I've noticed something weird.. just randomly, since I've been running moused on the remote, my mouse cursor will jump around. Might I be getting RF interference? I live right off of Broadway in downtown NYC.. there is all kinds of things going on outside, and sometimes my speakers will just start picking up people's conversations on what seems to be radio tranmissions. Any ideas to stop my pointer from being moved around randomly? It doesnt seem to change the channel when the TV is on, or play with the volume or anything.. its just the mouse. Maybe something wrong with moused? -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Danny Dulai Feet. Pumice. Lotion. http://www.ishiboo.com/~nirva/ nirva@ishiboo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jun 17 23:46:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28492 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28462; Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:46:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21262; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:45:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806180645.IAA21262@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Floppies for SCO In-Reply-To: <35881EB2.97877590@uniandes.edu.co> from Yonny Crdenas Barn at "Jun 17, 98 02:53:22 pm" To: y-carden@uniandes.edu.co (Yonny Crdenas Barn) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:45:25 +0200 (CEST) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Yonny Crdenas Barn who wrote: > Hi, > > I have a program for SCO, I desire run this program in FreeBSD 2.2.5 > with SCO emulation, the program is distributed in floppies of 3 1/2", > but I not know mount this floppies. > > I attempt whith : "mount /dev/fd0 /mnt" but is fail. > > In SCO I have run the program "custom" or "sysadmsh" for install from > floppies. You cannot mount a SCO filesys floppy on FreeBSD. However IIRC the install disks for custom is in tar format, so you can read that on freebsd like: tar xvf /dev/rfd0 . Now SCO's tar has the ability to compress individual files in a tar archive, so you will have to uncompress each of them by hand if thats the case. Then you are left with what should be processed by "custom" which we dont have, but if its not a too complex application you should be able to figure out what to do. The easiest way though is to install it on a SCO system and tar up the installed package and move that to FreeBSD.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 00:08:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02539 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA02533; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04762; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199806180708.AAA04762@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Kazutaka YOKOTA cc: Randall Hopper , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:22:06 +0900." <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:08:10 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I know Amacio has >already committed the change to the source tree. But, I would like to Hi, After finding time to stop playing with the X10 remote mouse and fxtv , I committed the patches 8) However, if you think that the code needs work please let us know. One think I like to change is to have moused open a tcp socket as opposed to a unix domain socket . Made already the mods to moused and fxtv Currently I am working on a protocol to control applications , a prototype multiplexer is already up and running is written in Java and it uses JACE http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/JACE.html Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 00:09:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02610 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:09:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcatel.fr (ns.rfs.tm.fr [194.133.58.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA02545; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:08:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from THIERRY.HERBELOT@telspace.alcatel.fr) From: THIERRY.HERBELOT@telspace.alcatel.fr Received: from alcatel.fr (gatekeeper-ssn.alcatel.fr [155.132.180.244]) by mailgate.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/SMTP.9.9.9) with ESMTP id JAA11442; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:12:54 +0200 Received: from aifhs1.alcatel.fr (aifhs1.alcatel.fr [155.132.180.86]) by aifhs2.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/SMTP2) with ESMTP id JAA19423; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:01:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from aifhs2.alcatel.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aifhs1.alcatel.fr (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17597; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:05:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from lune.telspace.alcatel.fr (lune.telspace.alcatel.fr [155.132.144.65]) by aifhs2.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/SMTP2) with ESMTP id JAA19402; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:01:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from telss1 (telss1.telspace.alcatel.fr [155.132.51.4]) by lune.telspace.alcatel.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22427; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:12:49 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from telspace.alcatel.fr by telss1 (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16067; Thu, 18 Jun 98 09:01:55 +0200 Received: from localhost by telspace.alcatel.fr with SMTP (1.40.112.12/16.2) id AA226443083; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:58:03 +0200 X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Thu, 18 Jun 98 08:57:55 +0200 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980617153107.03161448@wolfepub.com> Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=E9p_:_ed:_device_broken!?_(was_Re:_ed1:_device_timeout?)?= Mime-Version: 1.0 To: matthew@wolfepub.com Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="ed:" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ed:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id AAA02593 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I used o 3com 3c503 with the same device driver (ed). The driver used to complain timeout error until I plugged a BNC cable - after that, I never had another error - and the card and driver perform flawlessly. TfH ____________________________ Séparateur Réponse ________________________________ Objet : ed: device broken!? (was Re: ed1: device timeout?) Auteur : matthew@wolfepub.com Date : 17/06/98 21:31 Greetings, Sorry for the cross-post to hackers, but this has been kicking around on questions for a day or two with no resolution. I have tried everything suggested to me but nothing helps. Does anyone know if there is a problem with the ed: device driver on 2.2.6-R? I have a PCI NIC that was giving me a ed1: timeout error. I have removed *every* card in the system except the video card (on the ISA bus), changed cables twice, and set the NIC to every IRQ available on the system. I even disabled the serial and parallel ports to be able to use those IRQs. But here is the clincher... I took out the PCI NIC and put in a real Novell/Eagle NE2000 ISA NIC. It is jumper-less so I used the DOS utility that came with the card to set the IRQ and base address. Then I booted with the GENERIC kernel and set ed0: to the correct settings. Now for the big kick in the a**. Both cards, the PCI and ISA NIC are both NE2000, so they both use the ed: device and *both* cards give me the ed: timeout error!! By this time I was banging my head on everything in reach. I have another ISA NIC (a 3Com) that uses the ep: device and it works fine. Anyone else having problems like this? The MB is an ASUS-Tech SPG3 (yes it is a 486). Intel-DX2-66, 24MB RAM, 4 ISA, 3 PCI, onboard IDE and SCSI (both of which can be disabled). I have been running FreeBSD on it for about 2 years and this is the first time I have had any problems. Thanks Matthew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 00:15:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA04337 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotmail.com (f96.hotmail.com [207.82.250.215]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA04327 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:15:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_reman@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 14297 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jun 1998 07:15:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19980618071500.14295.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 129.94.6.30 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:14:59 PDT X-Originating-IP: [129.94.6.30] From: "Chris Day" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dano@starnets.ro Subject: Re: Sound. Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:14:59 EST Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Does someone know which is the appropriate driver for a Creative AWE64 >sound >card? sb0 plus sbxvi0? or, a special (eventually new) one? Another Also you need to include the awe0 driver which you can get plus install info at http://multiverse.com/~rhh/awedrv/ plus you might want to luigi's PNP driver if you don;t have it, links are on that page. regards, chris -- Christopher Day E-Mail the_reman@hotmail.com Homepage http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/1218 when the rain/when the children reign/keep your conscience in the dark melt the statues in the park - Fall On Me ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 00:29:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05892 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from couatl.uchicago.edu (couatl.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05886 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:29:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@couatl.uchicago.edu) Received: (from sfarrell@localhost) by couatl.uchicago.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id CAA09574; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 02:28:56 -0500 (CDT) To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clusters, Distributed File Systems and the like. References: <199806180307.LAA27243@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 18 Jun 1998 02:28:56 -0500 In-Reply-To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth's message of "Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:07:21 +0800" Message-ID: <87k96fkw1z.fsf@couatl.uchicago.edu> Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.9/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth writes: > performance to be within cooee of the SP2s, but it's an interesting ^^^^^ Within what?? -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 01:54:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA19834 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 01:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sarah.asstdc.com.au (root@sarah.asstdc.com.au [202.12.127.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19816 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 01:54:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imb@pni.ab.ca) Received: from walkabout.asstdc.com.au (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sarah.asstdc.com.au (8.8.7/BSD4.4) with SMTP id SAA02218; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:52:16 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980618025214.007c4660@localhost> X-Sender: imb@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 02:52:14 -0600 To: stephen farrell , Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth From: michael butler Subject: Re: Clusters, Distributed File Systems and the like. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <87k96fkw1z.fsf@couatl.uchicago.edu> References: <199806180307.LAA27243@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 02:28 18/6/98 -0500, stephen farrell wrote: >Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth writes: >> performance to be within cooee of the SP2s, but it's an interesting ^^^^^ >Within what?? Converting from the Australian colloquiallism (oh gee .. sp ?) .. "within earshot" Michael -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use iQCVAwUBNYjVPRIU3H6iGYQlAQE9yQQAmUuZnQtl7nQVzOoVzmga8s3U/JWaSUju 7imw7RUH1eKlO4kNWvCzw/auqUFdugZZxN2cdB6HBSYdV6YBfY3B3VwBYNsT4CX9 iOtp96u7DWpQmoryw5cTiw8nNNdbohg3rDddkSsBuz7Iun+WVs5g8k8WV8a1fUH8 k4BYdHgHBUQ= =HZLA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 03:03:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA29990 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:03:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA29962; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 6:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09964; Thu, 18 Jun 98 06:01:59 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA03219; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:01:39 -0400 Message-Id: <19980618060139.B3160@ct.picker.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:01:39 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Mail-Followup-To: Kazutaka YOKOTA , multimedia@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org References: <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>; from Kazutaka YOKOTA on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:22:06AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kazutaka YOKOTA: |I have looked at your patch and X10's web site. I know Amacio has |already committed the change to the source tree. But, I would like to |know if we can make `moused' to detect the device automatically. | |I understand the receiver of this device can be attached to either a |seial port or the PS/2 mouse port. | |Do you know if the device supports PnP COM device standard? What if I don't think it does. At least, when I stepped through moused with PnP detection enabled I didn't get any information back from the device. I didn't even get the PnP information for my Microsoft mouse plugged in series with it, which does support PnP. |Have you ever tried to connect the receiver to the PS/2 mouse port? |If so, would you show us the output from `dmesg' after booting the |system with the `-v' option at the `boot:' prompt? Sorry, no PS/2 available here. Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 03:15:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA02015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA02010; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:15:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 6:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10149; Thu, 18 Jun 98 06:13:52 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA03287; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:13:27 -0400 Message-Id: <19980618061327.D3160@ct.picker.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:13:27 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: Amancio Hasty , Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Mail-Followup-To: Amancio Hasty , Kazutaka YOKOTA , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <199806180708.AAA04762@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806180708.AAA04762@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:08:10AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Amancio Hasty: |One think I like to change is to have moused open a tcp socket as opposed |to a unix domain socket . Made already the mods to moused and fxtv I'm curious. Why would one want to be able to access the remote device's data on a machine other than the one it is connected to. Or is this an artifact of wanting to use a particular tool to talk to it which possibly doesn't support UNIX domain stream sockets. |Currently I am working on a protocol to control applications , a |prototype multiplexer is already up and running is written in |Java and it uses JACE http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/JACE.html Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 03:31:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03634 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA03628; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:31:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 6:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10483; Thu, 18 Jun 98 06:29:14 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA03316; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:28:44 -0400 Message-Id: <19980618062844.E3160@ct.picker.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:28:44 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: Danny Dulai , Kazutaka YOKOTA , Amancio Hasty Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Mail-Followup-To: Danny Dulai , Kazutaka YOKOTA , Amancio Hasty , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <19980618015038.40458@bleep.ishiboo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980618015038.40458@bleep.ishiboo.com>; from Danny Dulai on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 01:50:38AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Danny Dulai: |Randall, your moused patches will send the non mouse related data to the |/var/run/MouseRemote socket, Right. |so I think that maybe I'll tackle this by writing remoted to read the |socket instead of having remoted feeding moused. That sound good? Yes, that's what I was originally suggesting. I probably wasn't very clear about it. moused syphons off the non-mouse commands onto the MouseRemote socket, and then remoted can easily pick those up and do any translation it wants to execute programs or pass them through to connected clients. |Also, I've noticed something weird.. just randomly, since I've been |running moused on the remote, my mouse cursor will jump around. Might I |be getting RF interference? I live right off of Broadway in downtown |NYC.. there is all kinds of things going on outside, and sometimes my |speakers will just start picking up people's conversations on what seems |to be radio tranmissions. That could be it. I had the same problem with the first X10 MouseRemote I had, and I sent it back in under warrenty. It would occasionally (as much as several times per minute sometimes) send in spurious motion or button events without my even touching the MouseRemote. It wasn't a problem with the remote itself because it'd still do it if I took the batteries out. So the receiver had some noise suceptibility or electrical problem. The new one (just got it in 3 days ago) displays the problem much less, but every so often it'll still send in a spurious motion or button event. Getting a stray button down event with no button up has the annoying side effect that, if you're over an app like xterm, it grabs the cursor interrupting what you're doing, and xterm consumes all CPU until you reach over and click the mouse button yourself to get it to release the grab (giving it a mouse button up event to play with). |Any ideas to stop my pointer from being moved around randomly? It doesnt |seem to change the channel when the TV is on, or play with the volume |or anything.. its just the mouse. Maybe something wrong with moused? Swapping under warrenty might help (just the cost of shipping to X10 and $4 for return shipping) but having seen this on two different remotes, I think it's probably just a noise suceptibility design issue with the remote. I have noticed that the spurious events seem to only be mouse button or motion events. So I plan to look for a cheap serial port ISA board to plug in and just give MouseRemote its own serial port. I know that works fine as I ran that way originally. Then I won't care about the mouse event noise. Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 03:50:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06503 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:50:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06460 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 03:50:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (root@[10.1.140.1]) by zwei with ESMTP id MAA15731; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:48:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by pc8811.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29890; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:48:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1623.897632922@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:48:55 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh Subject: Re: internationalization Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Chen Hsiung Chan , Allen Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 12-Jun-98 Jun-ichiro itojun Itoh wrote: > Wow, this is the point. Phonetic expression (and sound itself) > has ambiguity in Japanese/Chinese/Korean language. If you hear > some sound, you can interpret that in several ways. We resolve > the ambiguity by context in spoken Japanese, and by Kanji letters > in written Japanese. > > For example, Japanese sound, "Hashi", can be translated into > both "bridge" and "chopsticks". There's slight difference > in sound (intonation) which makes those sound distinct. > Also, Japanese sound "Saru" can be translated to "monkey (noun)" and > "leaving from somewhere (verb)". In this case there's no > difference in sound. We make a distinction by context > for spoken Japansese, and by Kanji letters in written Japanese. > > Therefore, if we write "saru" in Kana (phonetic letter), > we cannot figure out what these letters mean. This makes it > really hard for us to read Kana-only teletype, which were > used about 20 years ago. Judging from your English, this is an example definitely known to you: We turned right right there, right? Alphabetical scripts simply requre the reader to grasp the context of the written language, as if it were spoken. This might be not natural to you which shows our respective cultural differences, but the fact that the common written language contains ambiguities is not necessarily crippling for the major part of population. The highly specific fields have developed (out of necessity) their own languages, i.e. jargon. This written ambiguity is not limited to English: here is a Croatian example: Gore gore gore gore. (translation available upon request) Aside: southern Slavonic languages have since mid 19th century been using phonetic script--7 year old kids have absolutely no problem to transcribe any word or sentence they hear. Sadly, the grammar has not been reformed and is so complex that the formal language parsing is almost impossible and even the grown-ups have problems forming correct sentences. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 04:55:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17777 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:55:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.sminter.com.ar (ns1.sminter.com.ar [200.10.100.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA17771 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpscha@ns1.sminter.com.ar) Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by ns1.sminter.com.ar (8.8.5/8.8.4) id IAA29402; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:52:06 -0300 (GMT) From: Fernando Schapachnik Message-Id: <199806181152.IAA29402@ns1.sminter.com.ar> Subject: Re: arplook To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:52:06 -0300 (GMT) Cc: fpscha@ns1.sminter.com.ar, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199805281703.KAA19375@mango.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at May 28, 98 10:03:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG En un mensaje anterior, Bill Fenner escribió: > > Are these machines on the same physical wire as you, and are they > sending ARP requests for your IP address? (use "tcpdump arp" to > see; you might have to reconfigure your kernel with BPF in order > to run tcpdump). One explanation for this message is that you > received an ARP request for your address from someone who you don't > think is on a directly-connected network. Finally, I recompiled my kernel and let tcpdump arp |grep 102.255 run 24 hs. I got *nothing*, by my messages still reads: > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.63.6 failed: host is not on local network > vx0: promiscuous mode enabled > vx0: promiscuous mode enabled > vx0: promiscuous mode enabled > vx0: promiscuous mode enabled > vx0: promiscuous mode enabled > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.31.6 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.128.221 failed: host is not on local network > arplookup 102.255.127.6 failed: host is not on local network Kind regards! Fernando P. Schapachnik Administracion de la red S&M Internet To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 05:25:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21432 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21422; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:25:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21917; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:23:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806181223.OAA21917@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-Reply-To: <19980618062844.E3160@ct.picker.com> from Randall Hopper at "Jun 18, 98 06:28:44 am" To: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:23:23 +0200 (CEST) Cc: nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Randall Hopper who wrote: > > I have noticed that the spurious events seem to only be mouse button or > motion events. So I plan to look for a cheap serial port ISA board to plug > in and just give MouseRemote its own serial port. I know that works fine > as I ran that way originally. Then I won't care about the mouse event > noise. This sounds like one of the most crappy PC hardware implementations I've heard about, the mouse/keyboard interface is bad enough as it is. I'm actually against putting this mess into moused/syscons. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 05:34:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22785 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:34:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA22776; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 8:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13513; Thu, 18 Jun 98 08:33:46 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA05443; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:33:21 -0400 Message-Id: <19980618083321.B5383@ct.picker.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:33:21 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Mail-Followup-To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980618062844.E3160@ct.picker.com> <199806181223.OAA21917@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806181223.OAA21917@sos.freebsd.dk>; from Sren Schmidt on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 02:23:23PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sren Schmidt: |In reply to Randall Hopper who wrote: |> I have noticed that the spurious events seem to only be mouse button or |> motion events. So I plan to look for a cheap serial port ISA board to plug |> in and just give MouseRemote its own serial port. I know that works fine |> as I ran that way originally. Then I won't care about the mouse event |> noise. | |This sounds like one of the most crappy PC hardware implementations |I've heard about, the mouse/keyboard interface is bad enough as |it is. I'm actually against putting this mess into moused/syscons. Not being an RF engineer, I can't speak to that. Could be that there's a lot of crap around 300Mhz in urban areas or that's emitted by household appliances -- I don't know. Or it could be just Danny's place and my apt. (I have a lot of electronics around the computer). So maybe a bad choice of frequency by X-10, assuming they had much of a choice. Or bad filtering on the RF receiver. Beats me. The piece in moused doesn't have anything to do with this RF interference/filtering issue -- no hacks in the code, so IMO there should be no problem with having the support in there. Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 05:49:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25058 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA25033; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:49:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu) Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA26015; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:50:22 -0400 From: Bill Paul Message-Id: <199806181250.IAA26015@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch To: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Cc: nirva@ishiboo.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980618062844.E3160@ct.picker.com> from "Randall Hopper" at Jun 18, 98 06:28:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, Randall Hopper had to walk into mine and say: > Danny Dulai: > |Randall, your moused patches will send the non mouse related data to the > |/var/run/MouseRemote socket, [chop] Just one quick comment here... > |Also, I've noticed something weird.. just randomly, since I've been > |running moused on the remote, my mouse cursor will jump around. Might I > |be getting RF interference? I live right off of Broadway in downtown > |NYC.. there is all kinds of things going on outside, and sometimes my > |speakers will just start picking up people's conversations on what seems > |to be radio tranmissions. Let me guess: you live not too far from the ground floor, like maybe 4 or 5 flights up in an apartment building, yes? Living in Manhattan for most of my life, I've also encountered occasional RF interference. It's the taxi drivers (sometimes gypsy drivers, sometimes medallion cabs; it varies). Many taxi drivers in NYC have illegal CB radio systems in their cabs. By illegal, I mean CB radios that have been modified to tune outside the normal CB frequency allocation and used together with RC amplifiers. FCC rules dictate that CB radio transmitters are only allowed 4 watts output power using AM and 12 using SSB, but it's not uncommon to find amplifiers that boost the output to 100, 200 or 500 watts or more. (These amplifiers are often cheaply built, badly shielded, and have less than adequate output filtering. A lot of the time they're little more than a big heat-sink with transistors attached.) Typically I think they have these things so they can talk with each other while on the job. Driving around alone late at night in NYC, I can understand wanting to chat with someone to pass the time. However, with all the buildings and the sheer size of New York City, an ordinary CB radio really doesn't reach very far. Cab companies that use a commercial radio systems get around this by putting up a repeater (which can pick up distant signals and retransmit them) but typically that requires more expensive mobile units; CB radios are relatively cheap, and amplifiers can be found if you know where to look. In any case, these illegally amplified transmissions have a habit of bleeding into other electronic devices, most notably cable TV distribution blocks. Sometimes a cab will pass over a distribution block under the street and start transmitting; this can lead to much confusion since the distributiob block may be several blocks away from you, yet you still see/hear interference on your set. Other common victims are cheap telephones and AM/FM radio receivers. In general, if you live high enough off the ground, you tend to experience less of this. -Bill -- ============================================================================= -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager, Master of Unix-Fu Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ============================================================================= "It is not I who am crazy; it is I who am mad!" - Ren Hoek, "Space Madness" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 06:07:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28134 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:07:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28076; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:07:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22009; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:06:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806181306.PAA22009@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-Reply-To: <19980618083321.B5383@ct.picker.com> from Randall Hopper at "Jun 18, 98 08:33:21 am" To: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:06:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Randall Hopper who wrote: > Sren Schmidt: > |In reply to Randall Hopper who wrote: > |> I have noticed that the spurious events seem to only be mouse button or > |> motion events. So I plan to look for a cheap serial port ISA board to plug > |> in and just give MouseRemote its own serial port. I know that works fine > |> as I ran that way originally. Then I won't care about the mouse event > |> noise. > | > |This sounds like one of the most crappy PC hardware implementations > |I've heard about, the mouse/keyboard interface is bad enough as > |it is. I'm actually against putting this mess into moused/syscons. > > Not being an RF engineer, I can't speak to that. Could be that there's a > lot of crap around 300Mhz in urban areas or that's emitted by household > appliances -- I don't know. Or it could be just Danny's place and my apt. > (I have a lot of electronics around the computer). > > So maybe a bad choice of frequency by X-10, assuming they had much of a > choice. Or bad filtering on the RF receiver. Beats me. > > The piece in moused doesn't have anything to do with this RF > interference/filtering issue -- no hacks in the code, so IMO there should > be no problem with having the support in there. I didn't mean RF problems or anything with the X-10 hardware, but having it communicate TOGETHER with the mouse is a real bad idea, to put it on the PS/2 mouse port is insane, that is the crappy enginnering I'm talking about (I wouldn't even call it engineering).... And it has NO business in moused whatsoever, its a hack and it doesn't belong there. I'm sorry I havn't noticed this before, but its should be ripped out ASAP, I would never have allowed it in there if I had found out before. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 06:11:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA29032 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:11:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA29026; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 9:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14761; Thu, 18 Jun 98 09:10:40 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA05530; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:10:14 -0400 Message-Id: <19980618091014.A5523@ct.picker.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:10:14 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Mail-Followup-To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980618083321.B5383@ct.picker.com> <199806181306.PAA22009@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806181306.PAA22009@sos.freebsd.dk>; from Sren Schmidt on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 03:06:36PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sren Schmidt: |I didn't mean RF problems or anything with the X-10 hardware, but having |it communicate TOGETHER with the mouse is a real bad idea, to put it |on the PS/2 mouse port is insane, that is the crappy enginnering I'm |talking about (I wouldn't even call it engineering).... Can't speak to the PS/2 mouse port issue. My serial mouse is running pass-though though the MouseRemote. |And it has NO business in moused whatsoever, its a hack and it doesn't |belong there. I'm sorry I havn't noticed this before, but its should be |ripped out ASAP, I would never have allowed it in there if I had |found out before. So far I have yet to hear what about it is a hack. The device is designed to save you from having to take up another valueable serial port with the remote. It has mouse buttons on the back and a togglewheel on the front which can function as a mouse as well, so you don't even need to connect it up to another mouse for it to function as one. Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 06:20:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00494 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA00476; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: by cagw1.att.com; Thu Jun 18 09:12 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id JAA26872; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:20:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, y-carden@uniandes.edu.co Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Floppies for SCO Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:20:02 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Sxren Schmidt [SMTP:sos@FreeBSD.ORG] > > You cannot mount a SCO filesys floppy on FreeBSD. > However IIRC the install disks for custom is in tar format, so you > can read that on freebsd like: tar xvf /dev/rfd0 . > Now SCO's tar has the ability to compress individual files in a tar > archive, so you will have to uncompress each of them by hand if > thats the case. > That may be impossible because SCO has added a new incompatible compression mode to compress and is using this mode in many cases (man pages, for example). You can not just take uncompress from SCO because it's in ELF format and AFAIK SCO compatibility does not support SCO ELF yet. > Then you are left with what should be processed by "custom" which > we dont have, but if its not a too complex application you > should be able to figure out what to do. > There are files describing the relations of files to packages, their ownership and protection. They can be rather easily parsed (or in some cases can be just ignored). > The easiest way though is to install it on a SCO system and tar > up the installed package and move that to FreeBSD.... > And a personal SCO license to do this can be obtained for free (and $17 plus delivery for media if you don't have it yet). -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 06:24:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01730 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01671; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22056; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:23:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199806181323.PAA22056@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-Reply-To: <19980618091014.A5523@ct.picker.com> from Randall Hopper at "Jun 18, 98 09:10:14 am" To: rhh@ct.picker.com (Randall Hopper) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:23:49 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Randall Hopper who wrote: > Sren Schmidt: > |I didn't mean RF problems or anything with the X-10 hardware, but having > |it communicate TOGETHER with the mouse is a real bad idea, to put it > |on the PS/2 mouse port is insane, that is the crappy enginnering I'm > |talking about (I wouldn't even call it engineering).... > > Can't speak to the PS/2 mouse port issue. My serial mouse is running > pass-though though the MouseRemote. > > |And it has NO business in moused whatsoever, its a hack and it doesn't > |belong there. I'm sorry I havn't noticed this before, but its should be > |ripped out ASAP, I would never have allowed it in there if I had > |found out before. > > So far I have yet to hear what about it is a hack. The device is designed > to save you from having to take up another valueable serial port with the > remote. It has mouse buttons on the back and a togglewheel on the front > which can function as a mouse as well, so you don't even need to connect it > up to another mouse for it to function as one. I can tell you from bitter experience that the PS/2 mouse / keyboard interface is not something you want to use. Also having 3 devices come out of the same interface poses LOTS of problems. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 06:35:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03614 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:35:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA03606; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 9:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15730; Thu, 18 Jun 98 09:34:49 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA05659; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:34:19 -0400 Message-Id: <19980618093418.A5640@ct.picker.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:34:18 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Mail-Followup-To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, nirva@ishiboo.com, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980618091014.A5523@ct.picker.com> <199806181323.PAA22056@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199806181323.PAA22056@sos.freebsd.dk>; from Sren Schmidt on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 03:23:49PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sren Schmidt: |I can tell you from bitter experience that the PS/2 mouse / keyboard |interface is not something you want to use. Also having 3 devices |come out of the same interface poses LOTS of problems. Oh, OK. Now I understand. You're saying the PS/2 mouse/keyboard interface in particular is the "hack". I thought you were talking about the MouseRemote device in general :-) I'll take your advice and stear clear of PS/2 devices. Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 06:36:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03900 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from PeeCee.tbe.com (firewallx.tbe.com [192.88.94.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03881; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@PeeCee.tbe.com) Received: from PeeCee.tbe.com (localhost.tbe.com [127.0.0.1]) by PeeCee.tbe.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA01488; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:35:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@PeeCee.tbe.com) Message-Id: <199806181335.IAA01488@PeeCee.tbe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:50:20 EDT." <199806181250.IAA26015@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:35:55 -0500 From: David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Paul writes: [...] > It's the taxi drivers (sometimes gypsy drivers, sometimes medallion > cabs; it varies). Many taxi drivers in NYC have illegal CB radio systems > in their cabs. By illegal, I mean CB radios that have been modified to > tune outside the normal CB frequency allocation and used together with RC > amplifiers. FCC rules dictate that CB radio transmitters are only allowed > 4 watts output power using AM and 12 using SSB, but it's not uncommon to > find amplifiers that boost the output to 100, 200 or 500 watts or more. > (These amplifiers are often cheaply built, badly shielded, and have less > than adequate output filtering. A lot of the time they're little more > than a big heat-sink with transistors attached.) One of the problems is the cheap CB radio transmitter. FCC specs dictate maximum spurious emissions (off frequency) two ways: absolute and attenuation from the fundamental frequency. At the moderately low power of a CB the absolute spec often governs. Then you run it thru an amplifier and get very strong signals off frequency. In any case there are always strong signals off frequency with high powered transmitters as the mandated attenuation is only 60 dB. Combine CB'ers love of speech processors driving their radios into distortion and emit even more spurious emissions. Sheilding of radio and/or amp has little to do with the transmitted garbage. If the X10 mouse transmitter and receiver are anything like the ones I've torn apart for X10 A/C house controls, then give up. Your problem isn't "evil" CB'ers or amateur radio operators, but possibly the world's cheapest radio. X10 used RC (resistor/capacitor) circuits to establish their frequency. Receiver was 5 or 10 MHz wide. And most any signal on any frequency would interfere. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nebula.tbe.com ======================================================================== Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 08:45:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24438 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:45:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id RAA14283 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:53:44 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 14281; Thu Jun 18 17:52:51 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199806181550.RAA15125@cdsec.com> Subject: kern.maxproc in 2.2.6 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:50:34 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all I notice that kern.maxproc is readonly in 2.2.6, while it was read-write in 2.2.2. Is there a good reason for this, and will I break the kernel if I change it back to read-write? If it can't be made read-write, is there some other way of changing the upper limit? TIA Graham -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 09:38:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02107 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:38:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA02088; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:38:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18577 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:21:48 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id IAA08043; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:49:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199806180649.IAA08043@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Stackable filesystems and SunOS 4.1.1 In-Reply-To: <31B3F0BF1C40D11192A700805FD48BF9017765EF@STLABCEXG011> from "Alton, Matthew" at "Jun 17, 98 06:21:37 pm" To: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com (Alton, Matthew) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:49:14 +0200 (CEST) Cc: johnh@isi.edu, FreeBSD-fs@FreeBSD.ORG, Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Scott.Smallie@anheuser-busch.com X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Alton, Matthew wrote... > Sun Microsystems has apparently freed the 4.1.1 binary distribution. It is > available from: > http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ They have not freed it. They are presumably looking the other way. That is all. The 4.1.1 mentioned in the URL is Sun3 and Sun3x only, so 680[23]0 CPUs. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko @ yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW: http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 09:47:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03873 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bleep.ishiboo.com (user25355@bleep.ishiboo.com [199.79.133.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA03867 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nirva@ishiboo.com) Received: (qmail 4678 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Jun 1998 16:47:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19980618124731.02987@bleep.ishiboo.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:47:31 -0400 From: Danny Dulai To: Randall Hopper Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Kazutaka YOKOTA , Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch References: <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <19980618015038.40458@bleep.ishiboo.com> <19980618062844.E3160@ct.picker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980618062844.E3160@ct.picker.com>; from Randall Hopper on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 06:28:44AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have noticed that the spurious events seem to only be mouse button or > motion events. So I plan to look for a cheap serial port ISA board to plug > in and just give MouseRemote its own serial port. I know that works fine > as I ran that way originally. Then I won't care about the mouse event > noise. Hrm, I'm using my second com port for just the x10 remote. Are you suggesting to just use the /dev/cuaa1 instead of socket that moused creates? If I did that, I could add an option possibly even trap mouse events and let them have special meaning if the right application was 'selected'. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Danny Dulai Feet. Pumice. Lotion. http://www.ishiboo.com/~nirva/ nirva@ishiboo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 10:07:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08413 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:07:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA08395; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:07:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22898; Thu, 18 Jun 98 13:05:33 EDT Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA07558; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:05:10 -0400 Message-Id: <19980618130510.A7551@ct.picker.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:05:10 -0400 From: Randall Hopper To: Danny Dulai Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Kazutaka YOKOTA , Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Mail-Followup-To: Danny Dulai , multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Kazutaka YOKOTA , Amancio Hasty References: <19980601194116.A25497@ct.picker.com> <199806180122.KAA04952@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <19980618015038.40458@bleep.ishiboo.com> <19980618062844.E3160@ct.picker.com> <19980618124731.02987@bleep.ishiboo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980618124731.02987@bleep.ishiboo.com>; from Danny Dulai on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:47:31PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Danny Dulai: |> I have noticed that the spurious events seem to only be mouse button or |> motion events. So I plan to look for a cheap serial port ISA board to plug |> in and just give MouseRemote its own serial port. I know that works fine |> as I ran that way originally. Then I won't care about the mouse event |> noise. | |Hrm, I'm using my second com port for just the x10 remote. Are you |suggesting to just use the /dev/cuaa1 instead of socket that moused |creates? No, nothing of the kind. Still fire up a moused on the com port that the MouseRemote is attached to. That way the interface to the MouseRemote is uniform, regardless of how it's plugged up (i.e. the /var/run/MouseRemote UNIX domain socket moused manages. Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 12:34:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA29363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from papillon.lemis.com (rider.dunham.org [207.170.123.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29347 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id MAA01697; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:01:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980618120128.02047@papillon.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:01:28 -0500 From: Greg Lehey To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clusters, Distributed File Systems and the like. References: <199806180307.LAA27243@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199806180307.LAA27243@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com>; from Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 11:07:21AM +0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 June 1998 at 11:07:21 +0800, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > > I'm wondering if anyone has done some work on a distributed file system, where > various nodes are each responsible for part of a filesystem and can see other > node's part of the filesystem, with files being able to span more than one > node. I think Greg Lehey's work (vinum) could be used as part of a solution. Yes, one of the things on my wishlist is remote data replication. If you have any specific input, I'd be very interested. If you're at the AUUG winter conference in September, I'll be presenting a paper about vinum there. I'm currently at Compaq's Tandem Division in Austin, Texas, playing around with their XC machines (up to 6 Proliant boxes, each with up to 4 PPros, running UnixWare and pretending to be a single system). There's a lot of interesting stuff to be learnt there, too. If I ever get time, I might be interested in discussing the concept of clustering under FreeBSD. > The reason I ask is that I'm working for a geophysics data processing company, > and we have all the 32 & 64 node IBM SP2 boxes floating about. Each node runs > its own copy of AIX and has a couple of 9Gb disks, of which one is for the OS > and the other is for the CFS (Common File System) which is shared between all > the nodes in a system. It struck me as an interesting problem which has > probably been solved a number of times. I'm in the process of porting our > geophysical software to FreeBSD, which currently uses PVM and will soon be > using MPI to distribute the processes among the nodes. I'm not expecting the > performance to be within cooee of the SP2s, but it's an interesting exercide > all the same. Is your employer possibly interesting in funding some of this? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jun 18 12:52:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA02028 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:52:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02010; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@netcom.com) Received: (from hasty@localhost) by netcom14.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id MAA09863; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:52:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Amancio Hasty Jr Message-Id: <199806181952.MAA09863@netcom14.netcom.com> To: nirva@ishiboo.com, rhh@ct.picker.com Subject: Re: X-10 Mouse Remote patch Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >If I did that, I could add an option possibly even trap mouse events and Thats the idea and you have to invent a mouse protocol to manage the applications. For example,