From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 3:31:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5FAB14D0E for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 03:31:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990328113239.SJAA5117602.mta2-rme@wocker>; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:32:39 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Mark Ovens Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:30:55 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <36FB92CA.187A0C3@uk.radan.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990328113239.SJAA5117602.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26 Mar 99, at 13:59, Mark Ovens wrote: > 2) To encourage more people to complete and send in the form why > not try and get volunteers to handle the forms in their country? > This would spread the workload and should hopefully more people > would send the forms in because they wouldn't have the > inconvenience > of having to go to the post office to find the cost of mailing to > the US. The volunteer could then enter the details from the forms > onto the registration database on behalf of the non-connected > users. I'll do New Zealand. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 4:27:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD33214D6D for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 04:27:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10REeh-000MMS-0C; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:27:07 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA01093; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:26:48 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id MAA05011; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:00:52 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:00:52 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Licia Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? Message-ID: <19990328120052.D264@marder-1.localhost> References: <36FB92CA.187A0C3@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Licia on Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 02:32:04PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Mar 26, 1999 at 02:32:04PM -0600, Licia wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > If you decide to run with this idea then may I make a couple of > > suggestions? > > > > 1) When designing the registration form (whether it's a printed > > form to go with the CDs or an ASCII file for printing out) > > then please don't forget that FreeBSD has an international user > > base and non-US addresses often don't fit well into a US-style > > address template. > > > > This is a good point. I run into this problem now and then with various > applications I've worked on, and a similar problem with phone numbers. I'm > not much of an international person though. Can you show me a simple template > for addresses and phone numbers that will work clearly and simply for US and > international users? If so, even if this project isn't approved, I'll > incorporated those templates into other things I work on :) > OK, UK addresses take this format (I've put the US field names in ``()'' to show where the problems are): (address) 151 Main Street Village (town/city) Town (state) County (zip) AB12 3CD As you can see, we need 2 "address" fields and the "state" and "zip" fields need to be longer. The telephone number format is: 01234 567890 or in major cities: 0123 456 7890 > > 2) To encourage more people to complete and send in the form why > > not try and get volunteers to handle the forms in their country? > > This would spread the workload and should hopefully more people > > would send the forms in because they wouldn't have the inconvenience > > of having to go to the post office to find the cost of mailing to > > the US. The volunteer could then enter the details from the forms > > onto the registration database on behalf of the non-connected > > users. > > > > I personally think this would be a Good Idea. Would that person accept > responsibility for snail mailing confirmation back to the user with their > 'FreeBSD Handle' for future reference? I could handle doing so in the US, > with no difficulty if need be... > That would be up to the individual I guess. Personally I would be prepared to do so although when the registrations start arriving at the rate of 100 per day :-) the postage cost will get a bit prohibitive :-(. > > Before you ask, yes I am volunteering to do this for the UK (and > > Western Europe if necessary) > > > > (applauding!) > > > OK it's not a great contribution to the project, but every little bit > > helps, or so they say. > > > > I personally think it's a good contribution, and if this project works out > could be a benefit to the entire community... Imagine actually having better > numbers as to how many people are installing FreeBSD, and on how many > computers :) > > > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] > [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] > [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] > > main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 5:33: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.naxs.com (mailman.naxs.com [216.98.64.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E479E15651 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 05:33:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aiarbuckle@naxs.com) Received: from naxs.com ([216.98.64.185]) by mailman.naxs.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42723U8000L3500S0) with ESMTP id AAA251; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:32:41 -0500 Message-ID: <36FE2D6B.CB69FFC1@naxs.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:23:56 -0500 From: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" Organization: Donnkenny Apparel, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Donald Wilde , Laurence Berland , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <36FD560C.47F636AF@confusion.net> <36FDB839.C67BE263@thuntek.net> <19990327212924.E36041@001101.zer0.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, but $4.00 seems excessive! Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 10:03:53PM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > > > > It takes a _lot_ more ink to do a black one, but I agree it's worth it > > for the effect. You'll pay $20 instead of $16 to get one? I would too. > > I wouldn't. $4 more just to have the shirt black? Dye is cheap. > > Greg > -- > Gregory S. Sutter Black holes were created > mailto:gsutter@pobox.com when God divided by zero. > http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ > PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Andrew I. Arbuckle Work: (540) 228-6181 ext 251 Fax: (540) 228-6036 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 5:41:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E8014BF2 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 05:41:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-072.thuntek.net [207.66.52.72]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id GAA03126; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:41:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FE3104.8ACCE39E@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:39:16 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <36FD560C.47F636AF@confusion.net> <36FDB839.C67BE263@thuntek.net> <19990327212924.E36041@001101.zer0.org> <36FE2D6B.CB69FFC1@naxs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: > > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, > but $4.00 seems excessive! > > Gregory Sutter wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 1999 at 10:03:53PM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > > > > > > > It takes a _lot_ more ink to do a black one, but I agree it's worth it > > > for the effect. You'll pay $20 instead of $16 to get one? I would too. > > > > I wouldn't. $4 more just to have the shirt black? Dye is cheap. > > I just threw that out, guys. Don't land on me so hard, okay? -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 5:46:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B53C14DFF for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 05:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990328134755.SSFJ5117602.mta2-rme@wocker>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 01:47:55 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 01:46:12 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Logo merchandise Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <36FE2D6B.CB69FFC1@naxs.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990328134755.SSFJ5117602.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28 Mar 99, at 8:23, Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, > but $4.00 seems excessive! On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 11: 0:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B531566F for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:00:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10RKnM-000656-0B for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:00:29 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id TAA01283 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:59:44 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id TAA00331 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:56:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:56:13 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Getting more people to use FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990328195613.A259@marder-1.localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This may be more appropriate to one of the technical lists but I'm asking it in the context of advocacy and also it is beyond my technical ability to discuss it in a technical forum. Half the battle in getting Windows users to try FreeBSD is getting them to install it on their PCs and using it. This, of course, means that they have to re-partition their hard disk and whilst those of us who frequent these mailing lists may be happy playing around with boot sectors and partition tables expecting your average Windows user to mess about with the partitions is likely to be enough to scare them off. It would be much easier if they could load FreeBSD onto their existing HD. What I would propose, and ask if it is technically possible, is to be able to create a virtual UFS inside a file on a FAT disk. I'm thinking along the lines of the way DoubleSpace/Stacker work(ed). In Windows there would just be a large file (FREEBSD.DAT?), with the read-only, hidden, & system attributes set, but internally the contents wuld be laid out like a Unix FS. Ideally it would be possible to boot FreeBSD from DOS (does DOSBOOT allow that for anything other than an install?). I realize that using this method would compromise security and there would possibly be a performance hit but I'm not proposing it for use on mission-critical servers. Obviously the file would need to be contiguous and the system must not expect to find it in a fixed location on the disk, as Windows defraggers could move it (the boot loader would need to use the FAT to locate the starting cluster of the file). I believe that such a system would be really useful in getting Windows users to at least give FreeBSD a try. It would make trying FreeBSD as easy as those 30-day trial versions of Windows applications. Is this idea feasible, how easy would it be to implement and would the time and effort be worth it for the potential returns? Yes, I know the usual response to "why don't we" suggestions is "don't just suggest it, do it" but, as I said before, this is beyond my technical ability. -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 14:44:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from merhaba.cc.columbia.edu (merhaba.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18A214C86 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:44:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-1-95.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.42.104]) by merhaba.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01141; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:43:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FEB05D.4762EB67@confusion.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:42:37 -0500 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <36FD560C.47F636AF@confusion.net> <36FDB839.C67BE263@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would certainly pay extra for a black T-Shirt. Also lets get more sizes from XXXL to XXS, I know some rather large people who would want a shirt, not to mention some people who'd like to have little kids wearing the shirts. (It'd be pretty cool if my 5 year old brother could get an XS) Donald Wilde wrote: > > > It takes a _lot_ more ink to do a black one, but I agree it's worth it > for the effect. You'll pay $20 instead of $16 to get one? I would too. > -- > Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" > Wilde Media > 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 14:54:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA53814C83 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:54:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA37363; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:53:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Mark Ovens Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting more people to use FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:56:13 +0100." <19990328195613.A259@marder-1.localhost> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:53:31 -0800 Message-ID: <37361.922661611@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Half the battle in getting Windows users to try FreeBSD is getting > them to install it on their PCs and using it. This, of course, Yep. > It would be much easier if they could load FreeBSD onto their > existing HD. Slackware does this and they call it "zipslack" - apparently a very popular feature of theirs, in fact. > What I would propose, and ask if it is technically possible, is to > be able to create a virtual UFS inside a file on a FAT disk. I'm > thinking along the lines of the way DoubleSpace/Stacker work(ed). > In Windows there would just be a large file (FREEBSD.DAT?), with > the read-only, hidden, & system attributes set, but internally the > contents wuld be laid out like a Unix FS. Ideally it would be > possible to boot FreeBSD from DOS (does DOSBOOT allow that for > anything other than an install?). You could do this, yes, using the vn device to attach it. You can even use the Windows swap file as the FreeBSD swap area, if one exists. People have reported this to work, anyway - you can do a lot with the vn device, assuming that you also add some hacks to make it possible to mount one as root. > I believe that such a system would be really useful in getting > Windows users to at least give FreeBSD a try. It would make trying > FreeBSD as easy as those 30-day trial versions of Windows applications. Yep! > Is this idea feasible, how easy would it be to implement and would > the time and effort be worth it for the potential returns? 1. It's feasable. 2. It would require somebody with a reasonably significant amount of clue to implement (we've looked into it before). 3. It would be worth the time and effort, IMHO, for all the reasons you state. The only issue is that this has been brought up at least 10 times before, and each time by someone who also says: > Yes, I know the usual response to "why don't we" suggestions is > "don't just suggest it, do it" but, as I said before, this is beyond > my technical ability. So it never progresses any further beyond this point and whatever energy goes into discussing it proves, in hindsight, to be completely wasted. :-( - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 15:19: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 210BC15285 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:18:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 11397 invoked by alias); 28 Mar 1999 23:18:37 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 11359 invoked by uid 0); 28 Mar 1999 23:18:37 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 1999 23:18:37 -0000 Message-ID: <36FEB8C7.F2D53E09@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:18:31 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <19990328134755.SSFJ5117602.mta2-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > > On 28 Mar 99, at 8:23, Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: > > > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I > > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, > > but $4.00 seems excessive! > > On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, > looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached cottom colour?) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey availble To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 15:25:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7291539E for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:25:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990328232626.WUNR4957949.mta1-rme@wocker>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:26:26 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nocturne Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:25:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Logo merchandise Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <36FEB8C7.F2D53E09@uswest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990328232626.WUNR4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28 Mar 99, at 15:18, Nocturne wrote: > Dan Langille wrote: > > > > On 28 Mar 99, at 8:23, Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: > > > > > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I > > > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, > > > but $4.00 seems excessive! > > > > On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, > > looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . > > I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and > new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached > cottom colour?) That's unbleached cotton AFAIK. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 15:32:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F949156D6 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:32:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990328233302.WWGR4957949.mta1-rme@wocker>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:33:02 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nocturne Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:31:56 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Logo merchandise Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <36FEB8C7.F2D53E09@uswest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990328233302.WWGR4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28 Mar 99, at 15:18, Nocturne wrote: > Dan Langille wrote: > > > > On 28 Mar 99, at 8:23, Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: > > > > > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I > > > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, > > > but $4.00 seems excessive! > > > > On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, > > looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . > > I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and > new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached > cottom colour?) OOPs. premature send. Grey? As in what you often see many sweat pants and sweat shirts? No, not that grey. I just rang my neighbour, who's a colour expert, to find out about this. Unbleached cotton is more of a cream colour. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 16: 4:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 42F92153E5 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:04:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 20610 invoked by alias); 29 Mar 1999 00:04:17 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 20585 invoked by uid 0); 29 Mar 1999 00:04:16 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 1999 00:04:16 -0000 Message-ID: <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:04:11 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <19990328233302.WWGR4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: >On 28 Mar 99, at 15:18, Nocturne wrote: > >> Dan Langille wrote: >> > >> > On 28 Mar 99, at 8:23, Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: >> > >> > > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I >> > > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, >> > > but $4.00 seems excessive! >> > >> > On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, >> > looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . >> >> I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and >> new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached >> cottom colour?) > >OOPs. premature send. > >Grey? As in what you often see many sweat pants and sweat shirts? No, >not that grey. I just rang my neighbour, who's a colour expert, to find >out about this. Unbleached cotton is more of a cream colour. The grey I'm talking about commonly found in athletic t-shirts. Hanes and Jockey both make them in packs of three. It's a softer neutral colour (white can be rather harsh and clash with darker colours.) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey availble To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 16:15: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE149156DB for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:15:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990329001552.XHER4957949.mta1-rme@wocker>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:15:52 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nocturne Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:14:46 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Logo merchandise Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990329001552.XHER4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28 Mar 99, at 16:04, Nocturne wrote: > Dan Langille wrote: > >On 28 Mar 99, at 15:18, Nocturne wrote: > > > >> Dan Langille wrote: > >> > > >> > On 28 Mar 99, at 8:23, Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: > >> > > >> > > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I > >> > > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, > >> > > but $4.00 seems excessive! > >> > > >> > On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, > >> > looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . > >> > >> I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and > >> new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached > >> cottom colour?) > > > >OOPs. premature send. > > > >Grey? As in what you often see many sweat pants and sweat shirts? No, > >not that grey. I just rang my neighbour, who's a colour expert, to find > >out about this. Unbleached cotton is more of a cream colour. > > The grey I'm talking about commonly found in athletic t-shirts. Hanes > and Jockey both make them in packs of three. It's a softer neutral > colour (white can be rather harsh and clash with darker colours.) Fair enough. But the main reason I mentioned unbleached cotton was environmental. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 17:15:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.iwaynet.net (smtp.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA87E14BEC for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:15:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lojic.com) Received: from daytona (overkill.Progressive-Systems.Com [209.41.220.250]) by smtp.iwaynet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA20312 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:14:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> X-Sender: adkins@mailbox.iwaynet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:14:20 -0500 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brian Adkins Subject: Re: Logo merchandise In-Reply-To: <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> References: <19990328233302.WWGR4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, I think the shirt discussion has moved beyond advocacy - please discuss what color shirt you want outside of the list. At 04:04 PM 3/28/99 -0800, Nocturne wrote: >Dan Langille wrote: >>On 28 Mar 99, at 15:18, Nocturne wrote: >> >>> Dan Langille wrote: >>> > >>> > On 28 Mar 99, at 8:23, Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: >>> > >>> > > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish >color. I >>> > > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for >handling, >>> > > but $4.00 seems excessive! >>> > >>> > On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, >>> > looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . >>> >>> I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and >>> new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached >>> cottom colour?) >> >>OOPs. premature send. >> >>Grey? As in what you often see many sweat pants and sweat shirts? No, >>not that grey. I just rang my neighbour, who's a colour expert, to find >>out about this. Unbleached cotton is more of a cream colour. > >The grey I'm talking about commonly found in athletic t-shirts. Hanes >and Jockey both make them in packs of three. It's a softer neutral >colour (white can be rather harsh and clash with darker colours.) > > >-- >dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the >gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world >ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a >DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey availble > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 17:28:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C028214CE8 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:28:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990329012929.XYHZ4957949.mta1-rme@wocker>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:29:29 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Brian Adkins Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:28:25 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Logo merchandise Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> References: <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990329012929.XYHZ4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28 Mar 99, at 20:14, Brian Adkins wrote: > Ok, I think the shirt discussion has moved beyond advocacy - please discuss > what color shirt you want outside of the list. Actually Brian, this was not a discussion about which colour t-shirt I wanted. It was about presenting a clean-green image when it came to t- shirts. Which *is* advocacy AFAIK. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 17:55:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.iwaynet.net (smtp.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE45E14DB4 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:55:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lojic.com) Received: from daytona (overkill.Progressive-Systems.Com [209.41.220.250]) by smtp.iwaynet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA21514 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:54:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> X-Sender: adkins@mailbox.iwaynet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:54:22 -0500 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brian Adkins Subject: Re: Logo merchandise In-Reply-To: <19990329012929.XYHZ4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> References: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 01:28 PM 3/29/99 +1200, Dan Langille wrote: >Actually Brian, this was not a discussion about which colour t-shirt I >wanted. It was about presenting a clean-green image when it came to t- >shirts. Which *is* advocacy AFAIK. Dan, if you think 12 separate posts about the bloody color of a t-shirt is significant in helping the FreeBSD project, then have at it man! Let me ask you this, though. If you were someone evaluating operating systems and you were lurking in the advocacy list for several of them and most of what you saw on the FreeBSD list was what you see below, would you get a good feeling about where the project was heading and what the vision and priorities were? --- While we're talking about the other promotional goods, how's about some T-SHirts that are black instead of white? I hate white t-shirts but i'd love to get a FreeBSD shirt. --- It takes a _lot_ more ink to do a black one, but I agree it's worth it for the effect. You'll pay $20 instead of $16 to get one? I would too. --- I wouldn't. $4 more just to have the shirt black? Dye is cheap. --- We'll see. I do want to make black shirts, whatever the cost. --- Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, but $4.00 seems excessive! --- On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . --- I would certainly pay extra for a black T-Shirt. Also lets get more sizes from XXXL to XXS, I know some rather large people who would want a shirt, not to mention some people who'd like to have little kids wearing the shirts. (It'd be pretty cool if my 5 year old brother could get an XS) --- I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached cottom colour?) --- That's unbleached cotton AFAIK. --- Grey? As in what you often see many sweat pants and sweat shirts? No, not that grey. I just rang my neighbour, who's a colour expert, to find out about this. Unbleached cotton is more of a cream colour. --- Fair enough. But the main reason I mentioned unbleached cotton was environmental. --- The grey I'm talking about commonly found in athletic t-shirts. Hanes and Jockey both make them in packs of three. It's a softer neutral colour (white can be rather harsh and clash with darker colours.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 18:12:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ACBE156FD for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:12:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA22026; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:42:30 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA50043; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:42:28 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990329114227.V413@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:42:27 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brian Adkins , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> <19990329012929.XYHZ4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net>; from Brian Adkins on Sun, Mar 28, 1999 at 08:54:22PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 28 March 1999 at 20:54:22 -0500, Brian Adkins wrote: > At 01:28 PM 3/29/99 +1200, Dan Langille wrote: >> Actually Brian, this was not a discussion about which colour t-shirt I >> wanted. It was about presenting a clean-green image when it came to t- >> shirts. Which *is* advocacy AFAIK. > > Dan, if you think 12 separate posts about the bloody color of a t-shirt is > significant in helping the FreeBSD project, then have at it man! Let me > ask you this, though. If you were someone evaluating operating systems and > you were lurking in the advocacy list for several of them and most of what > you saw on the FreeBSD list was what you see below, would you get a good > feeling about where the project was heading and what the vision and > priorities were? That would depend on who you were. You've just made your viewpoint clear; others have different viewpoints. I hope that this is not going to be *all* we see on the subject of advocacy, but I think that a discussion of these things isn't completely off-topic. Sure, not every message posted is of interest to everybody. Just delete the ones which don't interest you. But I suspect that that's the real problem: handling the volume of mail. Microsoft mailers don't do well here. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 18:41:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from merhaba.cc.columbia.edu (merhaba.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68ACD14E62 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:41:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-1-17.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.42.26]) by merhaba.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18542; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:41:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FEE807.81A413E3@confusion.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:40:07 -0500 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Adkins Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anybody evaluating the OS shouldnt be on advocacy. The best place for that would be -newbies or -questions. The point of the -advocacy list is to spread the word about FBSD. To get people interested. Or rather the list is a discussion of how to get those people interested. It's not the place to go to satisfy that interest. I admit the thread is a little silly, but still, it's important that as many people wear a FreeBSD T-Shirt as possible. Once they see the T-Shirt and say "Hey, what in the world is that?" you tell them and they go to www.freebsd.org, and maybe read some stuff and join -questions. They dont go to advocacy for an evaluation. If someone lurking here is looking for info, then I recommend you go to -questions, where you'll get a view of FreeBSD. This isnt the place for that. It's the place for talking about conventions, artwork, advertising, and TShirts. Brian Adkins wrote: > At 01:28 PM 3/29/99 +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > >Actually Brian, this was not a discussion about which colour t-shirt I > >wanted. It was about presenting a clean-green image when it came to t- > >shirts. Which *is* advocacy AFAIK. > > Dan, if you think 12 separate posts about the bloody color of a t-shirt is > significant in helping the FreeBSD project, then have at it man! Let me > ask you this, though. If you were someone evaluating operating systems and > you were lurking in the advocacy list for several of them and most of what > you saw on the FreeBSD list was what you see below, would you get a good > feeling about where the project was heading and what the vision and > priorities were? > > --- > While we're talking about the other promotional goods, how's about some > T-SHirts that are black instead of white? I hate white t-shirts but i'd love > to get a FreeBSD shirt. > --- > It takes a _lot_ more ink to do a black one, but I agree it's worth it > for the effect. You'll pay $20 instead of $16 to get one? I would too. > --- > I wouldn't. $4 more just to have the shirt black? Dye is cheap. > --- > We'll see. I do want to make black shirts, whatever > the cost. > --- > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, > but $4.00 seems excessive! > --- > On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, > looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . > --- > I would certainly pay extra for a black T-Shirt. Also lets get more sizes > from XXXL to XXS, I know some rather large people who would want a shirt, > not to mention some people who'd like to have little kids wearing the > shirts. (It'd be pretty cool if my 5 year old brother could get an XS) > --- > I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and > new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached > cottom colour?) > --- > That's unbleached cotton AFAIK. > --- > Grey? As in what you often see many sweat pants and sweat shirts? No, > not that grey. I just rang my neighbour, who's a colour expert, to find > out about this. Unbleached cotton is more of a cream colour. > --- > Fair enough. But the main reason I mentioned unbleached cotton was > environmental. > --- > The grey I'm talking about commonly found in athletic t-shirts. Hanes > and Jockey both make them in packs of three. It's a softer neutral > colour (white can be rather harsh and clash with darker colours.) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 18:50:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E08815441 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:50:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (wes@zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04875; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36FEEA4B.CFC9C3BC@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:49:47 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Laurence Berland Cc: Donald Wilde , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <36FD560C.47F636AF@confusion.net> <36FDB839.C67BE263@thuntek.net> <36FEB05D.4762EB67@confusion.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Laurence Berland wrote: > > I would certainly pay extra for a black T-Shirt. Also lets get more sizes > from XXXL to XXS, I know some rather large people who would want a shirt, > not to mention some people who'd like to have little kids wearing the > shirts. (It'd be pretty cool if my 5 year old brother could get an XS) I need at least a couple in 4T and two 3T. My partner and I have 3 mini-daemons between us, and mine is spoiled. ;^) Please everyone note that the screen designs for black shirts are usually more expensive to make because the designs often assume a white, or at least light, background. To make the design visible on a black shirt, you often have to add a white background or completely change the design. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 19:18:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.iwaynet.net (smtp.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9CD14ECD for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:18:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lojic.com) Received: from daytona (overkill.Progressive-Systems.Com [209.41.220.250]) by smtp.iwaynet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA23783; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:17:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990328220722.00a35a60@mailbox.iwaynet.net> X-Sender: adkins@mailbox.iwaynet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:17:56 -0500 To: Laurence Berland From: Brian Adkins Subject: Re: Logo merchandise Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36FEE807.81A413E3@confusion.net> References: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:40 PM 3/28/99 -0500, Laurence Berland wrote: >Anybody evaluating the OS shouldnt be on advocacy. The best place for that >would be -newbies or -questions. Actually, I think the advocacy lists are an excellent source of information in evaluating operating systems. One of the first things I did after installing FreeBSD is join the advocacy list so I could get a feel for where things were going. I personally think the vision and priorities of the project are very important factors in evaluating the OS. >The point of the -advocacy list is to spread >the word about FBSD. To get people interested. Or rather the list is a >discussion of how to get those people interested. It's not the place to go to >satisfy that interest. I admit the thread is a little silly, but still, it's >important that as many people wear a FreeBSD T-Shirt as possible. I don't disagree with getting a bunch of people to wear the T-Shirt's, I just thought it might be more appropriate to take the discussion somewhere else. >Once they >see >the T-Shirt and say "Hey, what in the world is that?" you tell them and they go >to www.freebsd.org, and maybe read some stuff and join -questions. They >dont go >to advocacy for an evaluation. If someone lurking here is looking for info, >then I recommend you go to -questions, where you'll get a view of FreeBSD. >This >isnt the place for that. It's the place for talking about conventions, >artwork, >advertising, and TShirts. Oh, my mistake - I thought advocacy had to do with the act of advocating, or speaking, or writing in support of something. In other words, if one was wondering why they should choose FreeBSD over Linux, NT, other BSD's, etc., they would check out the advocacy list for postings written in support of FreeBSD. Or if someone wanted to write such postings they post them to the advocacy list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 19:45:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1AD3151BC for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:45:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-054.thuntek.net [207.66.52.54]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id UAA03830; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:44:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FEF6A7.2688CE64@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:42:31 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <19990328233302.WWGR4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > > On 28 Mar 99, at 15:18, Nocturne wrote: > > > Dan Langille wrote: > Grey? As in what you often see many sweat pants and sweat shirts? No, > not that grey. I just rang my neighbour, who's a colour expert, to find > out about this. Unbleached cotton is more of a cream colour. > Yes. Early airplanes had cream wings of raw spun cotton. > -- > Dan Langille > The FreeBSD Diary > http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 19:46:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.iwaynet.net (smtp.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702C61556B for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:46:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lojic.com) Received: from daytona (overkill.Progressive-Systems.Com [209.41.220.250]) by smtp.iwaynet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA24477 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:45:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990328224213.00a348d0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> X-Sender: adkins@mailbox.iwaynet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:46:03 -0500 To: advocacy@freebsd.org From: Brian Adkins Subject: Re: Logo merchandise In-Reply-To: <36FEF33D.CDF0DF13@confusion.net> References: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <4.1.19990328220722.00a35a60@mailbox.iwaynet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I have been presented with the error of my ways, so instead of getting defensive (except on the mail software thing :) , I have decided to repent. Please forgive me and let the T-Shirt discussions continue unfettered :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 19:49:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.iwaynet.net (smtp.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE85B1556B for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:49:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lojic.com) Received: from daytona (overkill.Progressive-Systems.Com [209.41.220.250]) by smtp.iwaynet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA23515; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:06:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990328215307.00a41550@mailbox.iwaynet.net> X-Sender: adkins@mailbox.iwaynet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:06:46 -0500 To: Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brian Adkins Subject: Re: Logo merchandise In-Reply-To: <19990329114227.V413@lemis.com> References: <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> <19990329012929.XYHZ4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:42 AM 3/29/99 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: >Sure, not every message posted is of interest to everybody. Just >delete the ones which don't interest you. But I suspect that that's >the real problem: handling the volume of mail. Microsoft mailers >don't do well here. > >Greg Gee, I haven't noticed any problem with my mail software. Can you name *one* thing you can do with your mail software that I can't do? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 19:49:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C2B1556B for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:49:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-054.thuntek.net [207.66.52.54]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id UAA04226; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:49:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FEF7A9.B42C98BF@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:46:49 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Adkins , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So go write Java, Brian, and hit the delete button. What I see here is a good gauge of the reaction I'll get when we make t-shirts. It's called market research, and that _is_ advocacy. -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 28 19:55:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD961556B for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:55:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-054.thuntek.net [207.66.52.54]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id UAA05341; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:54:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FEF8E9.BE6237DF@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:52:09 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brian Adkins , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <4.1.19990328201237.00a7be10@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <36FEC37B.BBE26454@uswest.net> <19990329012929.XYHZ4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <19990329114227.V413@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG T-shirt colors> I have put togeyther the beginning of a list of stuff that we'll be talking about for a long time, guys, but I'm waiting for some feedback from the guys with the checkbooks before I post it. There will be lots of things to type about, including code. I hope there will be guys like Brian writing code, T-shirts will be meaningless if the OS doesn't keep growing. I hate to hype, I'd rather have _real_ capability to talk about. -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 6:33:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.naxs.com (mailman.naxs.com [216.98.64.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C7D14E92 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:33:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aiarbuckle@naxs.com) Received: from naxs.com ([216.98.64.132]) by mailman.naxs.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42723U8000L3500S0) with ESMTP id AAA211; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:32:57 -0500 Message-ID: <36FF8CF1.4D15BB26@naxs.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:23:50 -0500 From: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" Organization: Donnkenny Apparel, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: Nocturne , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <19990329001552.XHER4957949.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You might be able to find a good package deal if you move away from the first tier mfg. - consider Anvil Knits, I think they could provide anything you are looking for in a T-Shirt, and may give you a better price. $16.00 seems a little high, unless you get a heavy grade of cotton, approaching a sweat. Dan Langille wrote: > On 28 Mar 99, at 16:04, Nocturne wrote: > > > Dan Langille wrote: > > >On 28 Mar 99, at 15:18, Nocturne wrote: > > > > > >> Dan Langille wrote: > > >> > > > >> > On 28 Mar 99, at 8:23, Andrew I. Arbuckle wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Even a white T-Shirt requires dye, otherwise it would be a grayish color. I > > >> > > would thing a dime would suffice for the dye, and something for handling, > > >> > > but $4.00 seems excessive! > > >> > > > >> > On a green-clean note, why not have unbleached cotton? It's not white, > > >> > looks good, and doesn't go gray as it gets older . > > >> > > >> I don't like white t-shirts, it's hard to keep them looking clean and > > >> new. I prefer that mottled grey color... (or is that the unbleached > > >> cottom colour?) > > > > > >OOPs. premature send. > > > > > >Grey? As in what you often see many sweat pants and sweat shirts? No, > > >not that grey. I just rang my neighbour, who's a colour expert, to find > > >out about this. Unbleached cotton is more of a cream colour. > > > > The grey I'm talking about commonly found in athletic t-shirts. Hanes > > and Jockey both make them in packs of three. It's a softer neutral > > colour (white can be rather harsh and clash with darker colours.) > > Fair enough. But the main reason I mentioned unbleached cotton was > environmental. > > -- > Dan Langille > The FreeBSD Diary > http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Andrew I. Arbuckle Work: (540) 228-6181 ext 251 Fax: (540) 228-6036 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 8: 4:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6EB15148; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:04:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-059.thuntek.net [207.66.52.59]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id JAA03899; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:04:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FFA3F6.41AA8CC@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:01:58 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: advocacy opportunities bazaar! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please visit http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html, everybody. _Don't_ respond to this post, please start new threads for discussions. -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 10: 4:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B8D14E2C for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-146.thuntek.net [207.66.52.146]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id LAA25533; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:04:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36FFC006.3DB73C04@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:01:42 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Price , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone want ESR's job? :) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Price wrote: > # for ALL, from Apache to XFree86 -- will have its own visible advocate. > ^^^^^^^^ > advocate -> advocates :) Correction accepted and thanks! I don't want to be the General and I don't need the ego boost. I am fully willing to be the signpost, however, even though I know some dogs will use me for another purpose (as ESR points out)... ;-) -- Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 10:40:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 973A514CB7 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:40:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA14226; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:40:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:40:17 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSDCon In-Reply-To: <36FFA3F6.41AA8CC@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > Please visit http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html, everybody. > > _Don't_ respond to this post, please start new threads for discussions. FreeBSDCon October 19-21st. Walnut Creek is sponsoring this show. There will be tutorials, demos, discussions, etc. I missed the announcement for that one. Could we repost the details? When/where/etc? :-) Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 11: 7:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [208.138.36.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF168154C7 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:07:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA54607; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:06:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:06:49 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: dwilde1@thuntek.net, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Resources within the Open Directory Project Message-ID: <19990329110649.A54511@001101.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don, folks, I have been compiling worthwhile FreeBSD resources at the Open Directory Project . It would be really great if FreeBSD's section of the site, found at , could be expanded into a real reference point for FreeBSD material on the net. I think the nature of the ODP makes it a better choice than Yahoo!, with a closed team of updaters, or even FreeBSD.org, with just a few webmasters, for the directory. Have a look at the pages above, and if you see important things missing, use the "Add URL" button at the top of the page to submit new links. If you're motivated enough (and have some time to burn), sign up to become an editor yourself. Category editorial privileges are not limited, so go for it! Thanks! Regards, Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "Very funny, Scotty. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Now beam down my clothes." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 11:15:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F7A1556E for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:15:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id OAA28765; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:15:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (4.1) id xma023773; Mon, 29 Mar 99 14:08:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:08:06 -0500 (EST) From: Seth Subject: Applixware update To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wrote to the applix folks about porting applixware to FreeBSD; here's the response. Just thought ppl might find it interesting. SB ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:38:00 -0500 From: Michele Webster Subject: Re: Forw: ApplixWare ***4470051** We are currently working with Walnut Creek to port to FreeBSD. We have hit a few glitches so the release is currently delayed. Keep an eye on our web site linux.applixware.com for updates. Regards, Michele To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 11:47:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pike.cdrom.com (pike.cdrom.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3B2156F5 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:47:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rab@pike.cdrom.com) Received: from pike.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by pike.cdrom.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26457; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:48:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903291948.LAA26457@pike.cdrom.com> To: Robert Watson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, rab@pike.cdrom.com Subject: Re: FreeBSDCon In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:40:17 EST." Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:48:53 -0800 From: "Robert A. Bruce" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson said... >On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > >> Please visit http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html, everybody. >> >> _Don't_ respond to this post, please start new threads for discussions. > > FreeBSDCon October 19-21st. Walnut Creek is sponsoring this show. > There will be tutorials, demos, discussions, etc. > >I missed the announcement for that one. Could we repost the details? >When/where/etc? :-) The planning for this is still very preliminary. It is tentatively scheduled for October 19th-21st, which is Tuesday through Thursday, and we will stick to those dates unless it conflicts with something else important. It will be held in the SF Bay Area, probably either San Francisco, San Jose, or Berkeley. There will be some tutorials, some discussion panels, presentations, etc. You will get a chance to see the faces behind all these email addresses. We haven't set a cost yet, but it will be in-line with what other conferences of this size cost. There will be an extra charge for the tutorials. If you have suggestions on what topics you would like to see covered, if you are interested in speaking, or helping to organize and run the conference, or if your company is interested in being a co-sponsor, please let me know. -bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 14:40:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4993715408 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:40:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 40021 invoked by uid 1001); 29 Mar 1999 22:40:00 -0000 Date: 29 Mar 1999 14:40:00 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:40:00 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: dyndns.org Message-ID: <19990329144000.B39697@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just found this post in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc. Anyone that is compiling a list of high-profile uses of FreeBSD might want to consider adding these guys to the list. -Bill -- post -- http://www.dyndns.org is running it's dynamic dns database on FreeBSD This is a new company emerged on place of now dead ml.org. The service is perfect if you are using dial-up with dynamically allocated ip address. -- post -- -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 15:10:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9EC14C48 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:09:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-035.thuntek.net [207.66.52.35]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id QAA03661; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:09:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <370007A4.F0181EBA@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:07:16 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Sutter Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Resources within the Open Directory Project References: <19990329110649.A54511@001101.zer0.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'll add it to the advo tasks list. As you can see, I'm rapidly going to SINK if I take on more than a handful of these things myself. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 17: 7:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D0914DA4 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:07:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id RAA17987; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id RAA13464; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:06:12 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id SAA25353; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:06:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3700237E.AC3E2684@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:06:06 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Robert A. Bruce" Cc: Robert Watson , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, editors@daemonnews.org Subject: Re: FreeBSDCon References: <199903291948.LAA26457@pike.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Robert A. Bruce" wrote: > > Robert Watson said... > >On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > >> Please visit http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html, everybody. > >> > >> _Don't_ respond to this post, please start new threads for discussions. > > > > FreeBSDCon October 19-21st. Walnut Creek is sponsoring this show. > > There will be tutorials, demos, discussions, etc. > > > >I missed the announcement for that one. Could we repost the details? > >When/where/etc? :-) > > The planning for this is still very preliminary. It is tentatively > scheduled for October 19th-21st, which is Tuesday through Thursday, > and we will stick to those dates unless it conflicts with something > else important. It will be held in the SF Bay Area, probably either > San Francisco, San Jose, or Berkeley. > > There will be some tutorials, some discussion panels, presentations, > etc. You will get a chance to see the faces behind all these email > addresses. > > We haven't set a cost yet, but it will be in-line with what other > conferences of this size cost. There will be an extra charge for > the tutorials. > > If you have suggestions on what topics you would like to see covered, > if you are interested in speaking, or helping to organize and run the > conference, or if your company is interested in being a co-sponsor, > please let me know. I'm certain the Daemon News crew would like to talk about "Daemon News, the first year." The timing is very serendipitous. I'll let Chris and Brett continue this discussion, as I'm sure it will be discussed in the Daemon News core mailing list. We'll get back to you as soon as we have a more formal answer. It might be fun to get the co-columnists for each of the month columns to run panel discussions on their areas of expertise: newbies, security, etc. Imagine how much fun Greg and I could have fielding questions in a Daemon's Advocate panel discussion. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 29 17:49:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D37B156B5 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:49:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA17092; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:48:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:48:59 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: "Robert A. Bruce" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSDCon In-Reply-To: <199903291948.LAA26457@pike.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Robert A. Bruce wrote: > The planning for this is still very preliminary. It is tentatively > scheduled for October 19th-21st, which is Tuesday through Thursday, > and we will stick to those dates unless it conflicts with something > else important. It will be held in the SF Bay Area, probably either > San Francisco, San Jose, or Berkeley. Sounds great; details are of course necessary at some point as I live on the east coast, and would love to attend. :-) Maybe along with nice hotel rates or something. > There will be some tutorials, some discussion panels, presentations, > etc. You will get a chance to see the faces behind all these email > addresses. > > We haven't set a cost yet, but it will be in-line with what other > conferences of this size cost. There will be an extra charge for > the tutorials. > > If you have suggestions on what topics you would like to see covered, > if you are interested in speaking, or helping to organize and run the > conference, or if your company is interested in being a co-sponsor, > please let me know. I'd be interested in seeing (and possibly participating in) a security track. Also possibly might be interested in doing a Coda tutorial or talk. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 10:44:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A6914F66 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:44:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01910; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001823; Tue Mar 30 12:53:01 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA16162; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:44:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903301844.LAA16162@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Swan song To: marcus@miami.edu (Joe "Marcus" Clarke) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:44:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dg@root.com, bpechter@shell.monmouth.com, brett@lariat.org, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" at Mar 26, 99 10:05:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > >I hate to say this, but Linux has won for the time being. > > >I'm considering a switch to NetBSD or Linux here at home because of > > >a number of problems with the direction FreeBSD has taken with the 3.x > > >and 4.x releases. > > > > What you please elaborate? What problems do you have with the direction > > we're going? > > Personally, I like the way FreeBSD is going. They have a -stable, and a > -current tree, they are committed to timely releases, bug fixes, new > features keeping with industry releases, and user input on release > schedules and feature deployment. I've actually converted three Linux > users in the past week because of FreeBSD's improved stability, better > software install model, and better driver support. This is who FreeBSD *is*; it has nothing whatsoever to do with where it's going. Where you are going has to do with your 1, 2, 5, and 10 year plans. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 11: 1:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4F114C0F for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:01:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA24151 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:01:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:01:06 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: emachines Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So, it looks like the emachine people are looking for resellers. Given a number of successful reports concerning using FreeBSD on the emachines, it would be cool is Walnut Creek (or someone else) started shipping $400 machines with FreeBSD + XFree86 installed, as workstations or low-end web servers. Presumably with the add-on option of technical support :-). Or if they were sold as web-farm modules; at $400 for an add-on module adding n-hundred-thousand hits a day capability. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 11: 2:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EFE214C0F for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:02:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07394; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:02:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd007366; Tue Mar 30 12:02:16 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18045; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:02:15 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903301902.MAA18045@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? To: licia@o-o.org (Licia) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:02:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: marko@uk.radan.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, dwilde1@thuntek.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Licia" at Mar 26, 99 02:32:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If you decide to run with this idea then may I make a couple of > > suggestions? > > > > 1) When designing the registration form (whether it's a printed > > form to go with the CDs or an ASCII file for printing out) > > then please don't forget that FreeBSD has an international user > > base and non-US addresses often don't fit well into a US-style > > address template. > > This is a good point. I run into this problem now and then with various > applications I've worked on, and a similar problem with phone numbers. I'm > not much of an international person though. Can you show me a simple template > for addresses and phone numbers that will work clearly and simply for US and > international users? If so, even if this project isn't approved, I'll > incorporated those templates into other things I work on :) See Example #5: http://www.iarchitect.com/global.htm Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 11:17:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7618015A40 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:17:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15619 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:26:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd015564; Tue Mar 30 13:26:06 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19556 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:17:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903301917.MAA19556@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Heeeeeeeee's Baaaaaaaaaaak! To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:17:17 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After a long hiatus, during which he was brutally missed by those of us with a shred of the sublime, we announce the triumphant return (by way of an incorrect subscription request) of our favorite engineer of daring-do! Please put your hands together in a warm welcome for the ONE, the ONLY, THEEEEEEEEE ... From: Jesus Monroy To: freebsd-mozilla@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe [ ... and there was much rejoicing ... ] Recently back from the QIC-80 lecture circuit, where his fame as the author of QIC/News proceeded him across the highways, byways, lecture halls, and campuses of North, Central, and South America! Welcome back, oh auspicious Uncle Milty to Jordan's Don Rickles! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 11:40:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4285715B64 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:40:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25311; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:48:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd025267; Tue Mar 30 13:48:50 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA21435; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:39:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903301939.MAA21435@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Logo merchandise To: brian@lojic.com (Brian Adkins) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:39:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990328203952.00a7d3e0@mailbox.iwaynet.net> from "Brian Adkins" at Mar 28, 99 08:54:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Dan, if you think 12 separate posts about the bloody color of a t-shirt is > significant in helping the FreeBSD project, then have at it man! Let me [ ... ] Hey Brian! Thanks for the excellent summary! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 12:34:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711E914D21 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:34:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id MAA27698; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:34:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id MAA07390; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:34:16 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id NAA07422; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:34:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37013541.130EF676@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:34:09 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heeeeeeeee's Baaaaaaaaaaak! References: <199903301917.MAA19556@usr06.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > After a long hiatus, during which he was brutally missed by > those of us with a shred of the sublime, we announce the > triumphant return (by way of an incorrect subscription request) > of our favorite engineer of daring-do! > > Please put your hands together in a warm welcome for the ONE, > the ONLY, THEEEEEEEEE ... > > From: Jesus Monroy > To: freebsd-mozilla@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: subscribe > > [ ... and there was much rejoicing ... ] > > Recently back from the QIC-80 lecture circuit, where his fame as > the author of QIC/News proceeded him across the highways, byways, > lecture halls, and campuses of North, Central, and South America! > > Welcome back, oh auspicious Uncle Milty to Jordan's Don Rickles! No! Not again! I don't think my brain can handle it! It took me years of therapy -- well, OK, moments of deleting -- to get over the last spate of Jesus-isms years ago. I don't want to have to go through the pain again. Where's that darned kill command? -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 12:42:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346C714FE0 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02070; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:42:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd002051; Tue Mar 30 13:42:30 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29627; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:42:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903302042.NAA29627@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Logo merchandise To: brian@lojic.com (Brian Adkins) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:42:30 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990328215307.00a41550@mailbox.iwaynet.net> from "Brian Adkins" at Mar 28, 99 10:06:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Sure, not every message posted is of interest to everybody. Just > >delete the ones which don't interest you. But I suspect that that's > >the real problem: handling the volume of mail. Microsoft mailers > >don't do well here. > > Gee, I haven't noticed any problem with my mail software. Can you name > *one* thing you can do with your mail software that I can't do? You are running Eudora Pro, not a Microsoft program (e.g. Outlook). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 16:51:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462F614E6D for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:51:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-140.thuntek.net [207.66.52.140]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id RAA16724; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:51:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <370170F8.A1F60550@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:48:56 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Brian Adkins , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <199903301939.MAA21435@usr06.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Dan, if you think 12 separate posts about the bloody color of a t-shirt is > > significant in helping the FreeBSD project, then have at it man! Let me > > [ ... ] > > Hey Brian! Thanks for the excellent summary! > > 8-). > Ahhh... That's the color we forgot, BLOOD RED. Now the discussion is complete! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 19: 1:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.iwaynet.net (smtp.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF3A155CF for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:01:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@lojic.com) Received: from daytona (overkill.Progressive-Systems.Com [209.41.220.250]) by smtp.iwaynet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA09294; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:00:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990330215609.00a4a940@mailbox.iwaynet.net> X-Sender: adkins@mailbox.iwaynet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:00:44 -0500 To: Terry Lambert From: Brian Adkins Subject: Re: Logo merchandise Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903302042.NAA29627@usr04.primenet.com> References: <4.1.19990328215307.00a41550@mailbox.iwaynet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:42 PM 3/30/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >Sure, not every message posted is of interest to everybody. Just >> >delete the ones which don't interest you. But I suspect that that's >> >the real problem: handling the volume of mail. Microsoft mailers >> >don't do well here. >> >> Gee, I haven't noticed any problem with my mail software. Can you name >> *one* thing you can do with your mail software that I can't do? > >You are running Eudora Pro, not a Microsoft program (e.g. Outlook). Terry, you certainly have a flare for the obvious. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 19:22: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 452ED15AB0 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:22:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 22533 invoked by alias); 31 Mar 1999 03:21:41 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 22492 invoked by uid 0); 31 Mar 1999 03:21:40 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 03:21:40 -0000 Message-ID: <37019498.D4EF2AB8@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:20:56 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Adkins Cc: Terry Lambert , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Logo merchandise References: <4.1.19990328215307.00a41550@mailbox.iwaynet.net> <4.1.19990330215609.00a4a940@mailbox.iwaynet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Adkins wrote: > > At 08:42 PM 3/30/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > >> >Sure, not every message posted is of interest to everybody. Just > >> >delete the ones which don't interest you. But I suspect that that's > >> >the real problem: handling the volume of mail. Microsoft mailers > >> >don't do well here. > >> > >> Gee, I haven't noticed any problem with my mail software. Can you name > >> *one* thing you can do with your mail software that I can't do? > > > >You are running Eudora Pro, not a Microsoft program (e.g. Outlook). > > Terry, you certainly have a flare for the obvious. That aside, the key feature of Outlook is the remarkable ability to both piss people off with HTML e-mails while being infected with prank-viruses like Melissa and Happy99. Those Micro$oft folk are geniuses, aren't they? -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey availble To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 20:49: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from charleston.softhome.net (charleston.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D19415562 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:48:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 9596 invoked by uid 417); 31 Mar 1999 05:09:32 -0000 Received: from max2-ppp-38.cyberix.com (HELO BillyJoeBob) (207.8.199.102) by smtp.softhome.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 05:09:32 -0000 From: "Brad Benson" To: Subject: outlook mail was:(RE: Logo merchandise) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:47:19 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be7b31$8f0d9ac0$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: <37019498.D4EF2AB8@uswest.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > That aside, the key feature of Outlook is the remarkable ability to > both piss people off with HTML e-mails while being infected with > prank-viruses like Melissa and Happy99. Those Micro$oft folk are > geniuses, aren't they? > First I have to say that I'm not a fan of Microsoft in any way. I also have to admit that I use Outlook98. Yes there can be some extremely annoying problems with HTML mail and such, but users with a little knowledge can easily disable such features. As far as handling large amount of email goes, I couldn't survive without the auto sorting features built into outlook. As far as prank-viruses go, almost any windows mail program can be dangerous if you don't pay attention to the attachments that come in your mail. I think it should be said that most people should think about what could be in an attachment they weren't expecting. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 20:57: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEF414D96; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:56:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA05025; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:26:35 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA56908; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:26:34 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990331142633.O413@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:26:33 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brad Benson Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: outlook mail was:(RE: Logo merchandise) References: <37019498.D4EF2AB8@uswest.net> <000201be7b31$8f0d9ac0$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <000201be7b31$8f0d9ac0$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob>; from Brad Benson on Tue, Mar 30, 1999 at 11:47:19PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [following up to -chat] On Tuesday, 30 March 1999 at 23:47:19 -0500, Brad Benson wrote: >> >> That aside, the key feature of Outlook is the remarkable ability to >> both piss people off with HTML e-mails while being infected with >> prank-viruses like Melissa and Happy99. Those Micro$oft folk are >> geniuses, aren't they? > > First I have to say that I'm not a fan of Microsoft in any way. I also have > to admit that I use Outlook98. Yes there can be some extremely annoying > problems with HTML mail and such, but users with a little knowledge can > easily disable such features. As far as handling large amount of email goes, > I couldn't survive without the auto sorting features built into outlook. As > far as prank-viruses go, almost any windows mail program can be dangerous if > you don't pay attention to the attachments that come in your mail. I think > it should be said that most people should think about what could be in an > attachment they weren't expecting. OK, I think we can agree that any Microsoft mailer can fall prey to worms such as Melissa, and that most problems with Outlook are due to incorrect configuration. On the other hand, it seems that Outlook encourages incorrect configuration. I also think that some of its "features" are brain-damaged. For more details, take a look at http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html. In particular, if you can tell me how to stop Outlook from mutilating quoted text from previous messages, I'll be grateful (and put the explanation on the web page). What I mean is: how do you get Outlook not to mutilate the following text when replying? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That aside, the key feature of Outlook is the remarkable ability to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both piss people off with HTML e-mails while being infected with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prank-viruses like Melissa and Happy99. Those Micro$oft folk are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> geniuses, aren't they? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 20:59:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from charleston.softhome.net (charleston.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A7BC14EF5 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:59:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 13892 invoked by uid 417); 31 Mar 1999 05:19:54 -0000 Received: from max2-ppp-38.cyberix.com (HELO BillyJoeBob) (207.8.199.102) by smtp.softhome.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 05:19:54 -0000 From: "Brad Benson" To: Subject: RE: emachines Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:57:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be7b33$017bed40$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So, it looks like the emachine people are looking for resellers. Given a > number of successful reports concerning using FreeBSD on the emachines, it > would be cool is Walnut Creek (or someone else) started shipping $400 > machines with FreeBSD + XFree86 installed, as workstations or low-end web > servers. Presumably with the add-on option of technical support :-). Or > if they were sold as web-farm modules; at $400 for an add-on module adding > n-hundred-thousand hits a day capability. I use an Emachine at work and love what I've got for the buck. No problems yet and FreeBSD works fine all but the cheap software modem. As a reseller I would love to do many of the things you mentioned, but the only thing your forgetting is that a $400 Emachine comes with windows98 and that for a reseller to make any money off the machine they would have to raise the price to do the software install. Suddenly it's a $500 dollar Emachine for example. What would be nice is if we could talk Emachines into installing it as an option from the factory, or supplying a software free computer for a discount. I have a feeling though that there isn't a large enough market YET for Emachines to do either. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 21:17:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from charleston.softhome.net (charleston.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D775614E23 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:17:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 20720 invoked by uid 417); 31 Mar 1999 05:37:58 -0000 Received: from max2-ppp-38.cyberix.com (HELO BillyJoeBob) (207.8.199.102) by smtp.softhome.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 05:37:58 -0000 From: "Brad Benson" To: "Greg Lehey" Cc: Subject: RE: outlook mail was:(RE: Logo merchandise) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:15:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000601be7b35$87ff6f20$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: <19990331142633.O413@lemis.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > OK, I think we can agree that any Microsoft mailer can fall prey to > worms such as Melissa, and that most problems with Outlook are due to > incorrect configuration. On the other hand, it seems that Outlook > encourages incorrect configuration. I also think that some of its > "features" are brain-damaged. For more details, take a look at > http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html. In particular, if you > can tell me how to stop Outlook from mutilating quoted text from > previous messages, I'll be grateful (and put the explanation on the > web page). What I mean is: how do you get Outlook not to mutilate the > following text when replying? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That aside, the key feature of Outlook is the remarkable ability to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both piss people off with HTML e-mails while being infected with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prank-viruses like Melissa and Happy99. Those Micro$oft folk are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> geniuses, aren't they? > > Greg Like I've said, I'm not a Microsoft fan. One of the biggest reasons for this is that they will try to bend everything to there way. They've changed the standards to everything they've touched. Look at PPP and IE-HTML for examples. The only thing I can say about the wrapping problem is that by default Outlook will insert a new line every 76 characters. This option can be set to what ever you want. If you were to set it to 100 characters it wouldn't mess up the line, but the writer would have to remember to hit enter every 70 or so characters so that the mail could be read on none windows machines. I've tried this here to see if it works. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 30 23:12:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DFDDD14C2D for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 29917 invoked by alias); 31 Mar 1999 07:12:22 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 29902 invoked by uid 0); 31 Mar 1999 07:12:21 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 07:12:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3701CAA8.5086D3C2@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:11:36 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Benson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: outlook mail was:(RE: Logo merchandise) References: <000201be7b31$8f0d9ac0$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brad Benson wrote: > > > > > That aside, the key feature of Outlook is the remarkable ability to > > both piss people off with HTML e-mails while being infected with > > prank-viruses like Melissa and Happy99. Those Micro$oft folk are > > geniuses, aren't they? > > > > First I have to say that I'm not a fan of Microsoft in any way. I also have > to admit that I use Outlook98. Yes there can be some extremely annoying > problems with HTML mail and such, but users with a little knowledge can > easily disable such features. As far as handling large amount of email goes, > I couldn't survive without the auto sorting features built into outlook. As > far as prank-viruses go, almost any windows mail program can be dangerous if > you don't pay attention to the attachments that come in your mail. I think > it should be said that most people should think about what could be in an > attachment they weren't expecting. Granted, but Outlook's integration with Office opens the door to things like Melissa, which only works when you've got Outlook and Word 97/2k. Perhaps this is why I laugh every time I hear that some poor NT admin had to take the mail server offline. At least Netscape Messager has a very simple means of diabling HTML and Java/JS in e-mail and news. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 6:49:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7142214E8C for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-030.thuntek.net [207.66.52.30]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA07088; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:49:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37023569.C052B6B7@thuntek.net> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:47:05 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Rob Garrett Subject: strong warning! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/columns/0,4351,396531,00.html > Down near the bottom, a blurb about Yahoo using FreeBSD. > Ryan Snedegar You like cats too? > ryan@positronic.net Let's trade recipes! In this article Ryan pointed me to, there's also a mention of a clause in the MS license agreement that prohibits publishing of benchmarks on MS products. We are too small to be jackal bait now, so probably nothing will come of it, but I would _strongly_suggest_ that any benchmarking initiatives be geared towards "here's how you do a live side-by-side" rather than doing it and publishing the results. We will be assisting UG's in setting up such shootouts and doing them at trade shows, but please do not set yourself up for personal liability by publishing the results. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 9:37: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2692214D32 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:36:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5AC002EE1A; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:36:40 -0800 (PST) Content-Length: 2118 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:36:40 -0800 (PST) From: Nicole Harrington To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Possible advocacy piece? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings everyone I have been working with an online newspaper in setting up and maintaining their server. Now this Single, dual processesor Server is doing Up to 3Mill= ion hits per day. Of course running FreeBSD. Now to me this seems pretty good. The question I have is, how or what can = I do to use this to help FreeBSD advocacy AND of course toss the name of the Onl= ine NewsPaper out there, making it worthwhile for them to promote? I don't agree with many of their views, but it seems like a great advocacy piece to me. But who would be interested? Or is it one of those, write up something and sent it anywhere you can think of things? Any ideas or good places interested in these sorts of things? Thanks Nicole Maximum/Average Total KB transferred 139860976 Total KB saved by cache 10417201 Total files sent 31474693 Max hits per day 3229174 Average hits per day 1015312 Max hits per hour 276938 Average hits per hour 42304 Total unique sites 382149 (based on the last 15 Days) (They generate over 2 Gigs of logs per day so I have been having trouble dealing with them, but I have it worked out now.) The URL: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/ =20 |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 12:13: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4424215C62 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:12:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-070.thuntek.net [207.66.52.70]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA08221; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:12:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3702812E.A26A4CF9@thuntek.net> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:10:22 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicole Harrington , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Possible advocacy piece? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Nicole! Good work! A couple of suggestions... Internet Week or Internet World for news blurbs Web Techniques for in-depth howyadidit and, of course, DaemonNews for all, of us :-) I'll be in SF for your BAFUG next week, looking forward to meeting you and we can discuss it. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 14:31: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB12153F8 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:31:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13974; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:30:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd013940; Wed Mar 31 15:30:41 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25079; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:30:40 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903312230.PAA25079@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Logo merchandise To: brian@lojic.com (Brian Adkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:30:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990330215609.00a4a940@mailbox.iwaynet.net> from "Brian Adkins" at Mar 30, 99 10:00:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> >Sure, not every message posted is of interest to everybody. Just > >> >delete the ones which don't interest you. But I suspect that that's > >> >the real problem: handling the volume of mail. Microsoft mailers > >> >don't do well here. > >> > >> Gee, I haven't noticed any problem with my mail software. Can you name > >> *one* thing you can do with your mail software that I can't do? > > > >You are running Eudora Pro, not a Microsoft program (e.g. Outlook). > > Terry, you certainly have a flare for the obvious. My comment was directed to the original comment's use of "Microsoft mailers". To me, this implies Outlook and Outlook Express, and in the full context of the thread, perhaps Exchange servers as well. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 14:33:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AF4315225 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:33:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15238; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:33:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd015206; Wed Mar 31 15:33:20 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25333; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:33:20 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903312233.PAA25333@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: emachines To: bradley@softhome.net (Brad Benson) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:33:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <000301be7b33$017bed40$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> from "Brad Benson" at Mar 30, 99 11:57:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I use an Emachine at work and love what I've got for the buck. No problems > yet and FreeBSD works fine all but the cheap software modem. As a reseller I > would love to do many of the things you mentioned, but the only thing your > forgetting is that a $400 Emachine comes with windows98 and that for a > reseller to make any money off the machine they would have to raise the > price to do the software install. Suddenly it's a $500 dollar Emachine for > example. What would be nice is if we could talk Emachines into installing it > as an option from the factory, or supplying a software free computer for a > discount. I have a feeling though that there isn't a large enough market YET > for Emachines to do either. I guess you are assuming that they won't give you a discount for no Windows installed... have you asked? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 16:35: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920B514CC4 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:34:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA14843; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA22345; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:34:35 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id RAA20525; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:34:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3702BF21.2B23AFB3@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:34:41 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org, core@daemonnews.org Subject: Clueless users are bad for debian (was Let's CENSOR it!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG An interesting counterpoint to the "any clueless luser should be able to install XXX" philosophy: http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-9903/msg02288.html I do not agree with the conclusions of this interesting article, but I do agree with some of the "dangers" he spells out, as they apply to FreeBSD in particular. Perhaps Daemon News should drop a quick reference to this in News Items? I'd be interested in discussing this here in freebsd-advocacy as well, and in prompting discussions among the NetBSD and OpenBSD groups as well, as to how we can or SHOULD strike a balance between making the installation easy enough, but not waste time on minutiae. -- Wes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 19:16:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from charleston.softhome.net (charleston.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A04B14D25 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:16:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 25875 invoked by uid 417); 1 Apr 1999 03:37:04 -0000 Received: from max2-ppp-42.cyberix.com (HELO BillyJoeBob) (207.8.199.106) by smtp.softhome.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 1999 03:37:04 -0000 From: "Brad Benson" To: "Terry Lambert" Cc: Subject: RE: emachines Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:14:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be7bed$cd363520$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199903312233.PAA25333@usr07.primenet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > price to do the software install. Suddenly it's a $500 dollar > Emachine for > > example. What would be nice is if we could talk Emachines into > installing it > > as an option from the factory, or supplying a software free > computer for a > > discount. I have a feeling though that there isn't a large > enough market YET > > for Emachines to do either. > > I guess you are assuming that they won't give you a discount for no > Windows installed... have you asked? > > I just sent an Email on this very question. As soon as I get a response I'll post it. If I get one. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 23:42:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F0C15533 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:42:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: (from eagle@localhost) by eagle.phc.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10347 for advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 02:40:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from eagle) Message-Id: <199904010740.CAA10347@eagle.phc.igs.net> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 02:40:32 -0500 (EST) From: eagle@phc.igs.net Subject: Programmers Documentation Project Request for HELP To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The PDP project was started last week by Jeroen Ruigrok and myself, The idea behind this project, is to create documentation that will facilitate the development of native applications for freebsd. One of the driving forces behind this project is the lack of information about the internals of freebsd, When asking for information on programming freebsd one is currently pointed to books that deal with bsd 4.4, while freebsd is a derivative from bsd 4.4, the internals have changed greatly and even the documentation from libc itself is way out of date. I believe that making this documentation available will make it easier for people to write native freebsd code. to take advantage of the features of freebsd, somthing that will never happen using linux emulation. We greatly appreciate EE, and JKH's support with this project and also a special thanks to Adrian who has joined us in this key area. We need people to write the documentation and people willing to review it. Terry, would you be interested, John Dyson you maybe? we need people that know the code to make sure that what is written is correct.. thanks for listening to me ramble.. if your interested in helping please contact: asmodai@wxs.nl Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai eagle@phc.igs.net Rob Garrett/Chmod or come see us on the undernet #freebsd channel or on efnet same channel Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 31 23:51:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rock.ghis.net (rock.ghis.net [209.222.164.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A5C151DD for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:51:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chmod@rock.ghis.net) Received: from localhost (chmod@localhost) by rock.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA78622; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:53:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:53:19 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Garrett To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: strong warning! In-Reply-To: <37023569.C052B6B7@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/columns/0,4351,396531,00.html > > Down near the bottom, a blurb about Yahoo using FreeBSD. > > > Ryan Snedegar You like cats too? > > ryan@positronic.net Let's trade recipes! > > In this article Ryan pointed me to, there's also a mention of a clause > in the MS license agreement that prohibits publishing of benchmarks on > MS products. We are too small to be jackal bait now, so probably nothing > will come of it, but I would _strongly_suggest_ that any benchmarking > initiatives be geared towards "here's how you do a live side-by-side" > rather than doing it and publishing the results. We will be assisting > UG's in setting up such shootouts and doing them at trade shows, but > please do not set yourself up for personal liability by publishing the > results. > > -- > Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" > Wilde Media > 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net > Don, In regards to your comment about taking me away from the PDP project, I have time enough for both the web site and the documentaion. and as to benchmarks against microsoft software it never has been my intention of comparing freebsd with nt or 98 my tests are soley against linux, as to the shootout stuff, the benchmarks that exist now are extremely lacking in some areas leading to inconclusive results, Thats somthing i hope to rectify over the next week. and once again if I didn't feel that i had enough time to give to the advocy web stuff I wouldn't of volunteered, this is somthing that t I really want to be invlolved in Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 2:28:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gw.start.nl (gw.start.nl [193.67.139.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEFCC151C7; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 02:28:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from RuigrJer@start.nl) Received: from start.nl (mail.start.nl [172.16.0.32]) by gw.start.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09384; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:28:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from RuigrJer@start.nl) Received: from HOOFDKANTOOR_START-Message_Server by start.nl with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:30:53 +0200 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:29:35 +0200 From: "Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: adrian@freebsd.org, eagle@phc.igs.net, asmodai@wxs.nl Subject: Re: Programmers Documentation Project Request for HELP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Sorry for the crosspost, but I think this is as well hackers material as advocacy. I subscribe to both lists so please, if the content becomes overly technical, restrict it to hackers, else advocacy in order not to mess the lists up to much after this initial post. Thanks ] For those who are interested in the Project and would like to review and/or add to it, please see the following URL: http://home.wxs.nl/~asmodai It has a link to the document when one follows the PDP link. I will make the link a seperate HTML page ASAP in order to allow other sub-projects such as the new DDWG for which I am gathering information. If possible, please diff -u against documents. Things to do: get appropriate manpages in CURRENT based on the documentation, perhaps a database, and everything else we think of. Suggestions/comments appreciated and wanted. Thanks for your time. Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Infrastructure & Networks Start Holding B.V. tel: +31 - (0) 182 - 695 895 email: jeroen.ruigrok@start.nl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 2:54:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ewok.creative.net.au (ewok.creative.net.au [203.30.44.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 218C514F8A for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 02:54:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 6290 invoked by uid 1008); 1 Apr 1999 10:38:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19990401103832.6288.qmail@ewok.creative.net.au> From: adrian@freebsd.org To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Programmers Documentation Project Request for HELP In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:29:35 +0200." Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:38:32 +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven" writes: >[ Sorry for the crosspost, but I think this is as well hackers material > as advocacy. I subscribe to both lists so please, if the content > becomes overly technical, restrict it to hackers, else advocacy in > order not to mess the lists up to much after this initial post. Thanks ] > .. and just to add right now, I'm compiling a list of sysctl descriptions so we can actually have descriptions of what sysctl variables do (rather than the helpful 'read the source' the man page has). The current list is from my 3.1-REL box, I'll update the list when I get a -current box online and I've fgrepped the sources totally. Its located at http://www.freebsd.org/~adrian/sysctl.descriptions If people can please send me diff -u's against what is there, I'll update the list, and start sending in diffs to -current tonight or tomorrow. Adrian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 6:33:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F219F14F5B for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:33:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-044.thuntek.net [207.66.52.44]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA11114; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:33:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37038330.CBD75F1B@thuntek.net> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:31:12 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clueless users are bad for debian (was Let's CENSOR it!) References: <3702BF21.2B23AFB3@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oh, boy, back to one of my FAVORITE subjects... ;-) Thanks, Wes! I think it is possible to give both Clueless Luser and SuperSysAdmin what they need. The problem is that 'novice' install is still too techy and unexplained, not to mention un-undoable. We need one more option there that explores the system and then sets it up properly. Not to the X point, the decision tree should merge again after CONGTRATS! You now have... Then, there should be another menu fork where Joe L. can choose to build a desktop (with basic programs, Internet and VGA or SVGA X) or a webserver or a firewall or a db server or a mailbox, or even several of those... or choose what he wants to do. We should be able to achieve this with just C in sysinstall and scripts that snoop to config Apache and Postgres and things like that. The key to success is to examine it from the non-UNIX-geek POV and explain the tech in English. The Ports are a perfect example, only a geek who knows the tradition can figure out the one-liners, and the DESCRs are hardly better. Then, we add a layer of FreeBSD-specific tricks like active root windows and FBSD-specific xscreensavers and tricks like that. Not GNOME, necessarily or KDE, but well-set-up fvwm1.24, maybe. Showcase what FreeBSD can be without turning it into bloatware! Finally, we add a "what do I do now" system -- both text and GUI -- that they can page through that explains integration techniques and holds hands while leading into the real docs. I can't get too deep into this thread, I'm supposed to be encouraging you guys to figure it out and do it, but I'll be glad to establish a spot on the ./advo site for posting of white-papers-in-progress and signup lists for coordination. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 7: 4:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from liffey.co-operation-ireland.ie (d1-ppp-149.connect.ie [194.106.128.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F342914BCD for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie) Received: from it1 (it1 [199.107.2.129]) by liffey.co-operation-ireland.ie (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA09119; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:00:32 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990401160343.007d6620@199.107.2.1> X-Sender: relyod@199.107.2.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:03:43 +0100 To: dwilde1@thuntek.net From: Michael Doyle Subject: FreeBSD Advocacy Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here's an idea for promoting FreeBSD- Last week I picked up a PC magazine that had Linux on the cover disk (a 1 CD distribution of Red Hat) Couldn't we put together a 1 CD install/distribution of either 2.2.8 or 3.1 and get one or more of the PC magazines to put it on their covers? the magizines that I have seen do this for Lunix are both amed at the UK market (PCW did this last year, I can't remember off the top of my head which one had the Linux CD last week - it's not one of the "better" magazines in terms of content - I only ever buy it for the cover disk, about 1 or 2 issues a year) <>< ============================================================ ><> Michael Doyle email: relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie Network Administrator personal email: relyod@indigo.ie Co-operation Ireland http://www.co-operation-ireland.ie/ Phone: +353-1-661 0588 Fax: +353-1-661 8456 ********************************************************************* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 7:53:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3035914E13 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-015.thuntek.net [207.66.52.15]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id IAA24565; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:52:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <370395C4.899B3EFE@thuntek.net> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 08:50:28 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Doyle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <3.0.5.32.19990401160343.007d6620@199.107.2.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Doyle wrote: > > Here's an idea for promoting FreeBSD- > > Last week I picked up a PC magazine that had Linux on the > cover disk (a 1 CD distribution of Red Hat) > > Couldn't we put together a 1 CD install/distribution > of either 2.2.8 or 3.1 and get one or more of the PC > magazines to put it on their covers? > We have talked about this. The short answer is "yes", but it's got to either work from the CDROm or install onto the FAT32 system. Another improvement is to make it a 'newbie demo' version that would come up pretty for newbies with a lot of eye-catching demo stuff. We will definitely re-visit this issue. I'm going to be in Concord, CA the 7-8-9 to visit with Jordan and the folks from WC. We'll talak about this & many other things! Why don't you write little 'position paper' outlining your ideas of what we want and post it? -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 14:26: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9923614F26 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:25:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990401222708.BTDN5611744.mta2-rme@wocker>; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:27:08 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Michael Doyle Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:25:42 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19990401160343.007d6620@199.107.2.1> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990401222708.BTDN5611744.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1 Apr 99, at 16:03, Michael Doyle wrote: > Couldn't we put together a 1 CD install/distribution > of either 2.2.8 or 3.1 and get one or more of the PC > magazines to put it on their covers? That's a good idea! Now, how can we do that at no cost? -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 14:36:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1803A15591 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:36:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id RAA22986; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:35:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (4.1) id xma022875; Thu, 1 Apr 99 17:35:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:35:11 -0500 (EST) From: Seth Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-reply-to: <19990401222708.BTDN5611744.mta2-rme@wocker> To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What's the unit cost assuming a run of 10,000 CD's? Before we say "let's do this at no cost", maybe we should find out how much it would cost. There are many ways of funding such an exercise, should it be deemed worthy of pursuit. ("Hey, editors, if you agree to foot 3/4 of the cost of this, we'll give you CD's to distribute with your magazine... and even give you special billing on the disk face itself! Besides, think of all the additional magazines you'll sell because people will want to get a copy of FreeBSD!") SB On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Dan Langille wrote: > On 1 Apr 99, at 16:03, Michael Doyle wrote: > > > Couldn't we put together a 1 CD install/distribution > > of either 2.2.8 or 3.1 and get one or more of the PC > > magazines to put it on their covers? > > That's a good idea! Now, how can we do that at no cost? > > -- > Dan Langille > The FreeBSD Diary > http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 15:56:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2188315502 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:55:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26172; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:55:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:55:33 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? In-Reply-To: <36FBF791.348AAAC7@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > Licia wrote: > > > > This sounds like a good idea but personally, I worry about the expense... if > > each premium were to cost 10 cents, and there were 200,000 registrations, then > > -just- the cost of the premiums would run $20,000... and I have a feeling > > there are a bit more than 200,000 people out there using FreeBSD ;) > > > > Yes, but the visibility of knowing that we have 200,000 CONFIRMED users > would drive enough vendors to our doorstep to double it... and so on. > I agree, but would tend to prefer some way to 'accept a smaller profit on one item' method than 'here is a prize paid for out of pocket', as a way to minimize resource usage. Personally I consider a free world class operating system to be one heck of a prize for registering :) > > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Zippy wrote: > > > I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, too, but it just means I'm causing > > > people to think, right? :) > > > > > > One thing that I've noticed about product registrations: people are more > > > likely to DO it if there's an incentive. 3Com did it with their Palm > > > Pilots; if you registered, you got a gift. Would it be possible to do the > > > same thing with FreeBSD? > > > > > > Things I'm thinking might work: a sticker or two (if we want really > > > low-cost incentives), the next release at a discount, etc. I'm thinking > > > that there could be a registration postcard in the WC distribution, and > > > there could be a notice at the installation as well. > > > > > > If we were to go with the discounted future release, this may have an > > > overall POSITIVE effect: those customers who register after *downloading* > > > the install might be more likely to PAY for the discounted next release > > > ("hey, it's cheaper, it's a one-time deal, and I like having the CD's!"), > > > thereby adding to WC's sales. > > > > > > Of course, there are downsides: the obvious cost of hte incentive, and the > > > hidden costs: we'd need people to enter in registration information that > > > came via snail-mail, database maintainers, etc. > > > > > > Just something to think about... > > > > > > SB > > > -- > Donald Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" > Wilde Media > 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 16: 1:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB4814D58 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:01:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26214; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:01:30 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:01:30 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Zippy Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User Registration [was Is there a "how did you hear about us?" ] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Zippy wrote: > EXACTLY. Thanks for putting it into more intelligible form :) > > Plus, if it's done such that the discount is for the NEXT release, it > could be used to boost pre-order sales, which is always a good thing. > Yes, that's an idea I wouldn't feel too bad about suggesting :) > Another option (anti-DMs aren't gonna like this, but what the hell :)): > the list could be used by WC to gauge interest for other product > offerings. I'm not suggesting that the list be sold by WC to 3rd parties, > but internally, it might be of use. This is a policy decision that needs > to be negotiated between WC and the FreeBSD project folks. But if WC has > interest in such a list for this purpose, they might have an interest in > maintaining the list and just sending reports to the FreeBSD folks. (Is > our goal to get numbers, or to get the actual contact information? If > numbers, the above plan might work. WC's interest would definitely be > contact information.) > > SB I would worry that any possible use of the information outside of the FreeBSD project and Walnut Creek would probably discourage people from registering... I wouldn't mind the FreeBSD project or WC having my information personally, but would be -very- unhappy if other people got ahold of it... [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 16: 5: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B038D15518 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:04:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26229; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:04:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:04:25 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User Registration [was Is there a "how did you hear about us?" ] In-Reply-To: <36FBFAC7.13C15214@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > Licia wrote: > > > > Ahh, sort of like a coupon for registering? It would be interesting to hear > > WC's thoughts on the subject... I wonder if it could be done such that the > > discount is attractive/encouraging but still allows WC a profit on that unit? > > > I'm sure there's enough for a noticable discount. Even 4CD sets are > inexpensive, and there's no royalty cost ;-) Yes but there are other costs as well involved in production, shipping, and maintaining the business... I'm always worried about that, WC has done a tremendous amount for FreeBSD, I -want- them to make a profit :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 16:15:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1C615E24 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:15:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990402001628.CJAT5611744.mta2-rme@wocker>; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:16:28 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Licia Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:15:03 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: User Registration [was Is there a "how did you hear about us?" ] Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <36FBFAC7.13C15214@thuntek.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990402001628.CJAT5611744.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1 Apr 99, at 18:04, Licia wrote: > Yes but there are other costs as well involved in production, shipping, > and maintaining the business... I'm always worried about that, WC has done > a tremendous amount for FreeBSD, I -want- them to make a profit :) FWIW: I know there are some people that never use the CD-ROMs they order from WC. They actually always install via cvsup, ftp, etc. These people have a subscription just because some of the money goes to the FreeBSD project. When the CDs arrive, they just give them away to a FreeBSD newbie. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 16:56:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6784314BDD for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:56:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26428; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:56:02 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:56:02 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? In-Reply-To: <36FC12E0.691ECF1D@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Licia wrote: > > > > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > > We had originally discussed an entire web section for branded products, > > > with click-through to their site(s), to cross-advertise the availability > > > of FreeBSD branded products. We would offer this page as a target for > > > their products sites as well. I imagine FreeBSD Mall will be very > > > interested in carrying commercial products that are FreeBSD branded as > > > well, if suitable financial arrangements can be agreed upon. > > > > > > > I think that is a good idea as well. Not what I meant by banner, but still a > > very good idea. Would there be any interest in a similar section for freeware > > authors who support FreeBSD and apply the branding to their efforts? > > In our original discussion, the products were sorted by "Native FreeBSD" > vs. "Emulated", rather than price tags. A native port of Gnome would get > "higher" billing than a Linux version of DB2, as it should. ;^) > So freeware authors would be able to get listed in the branded software area on the web site? Would there be criterion on size/quality of a branded project, or could someone write a clone of echo and get listed? :) > A relatively good example of how to do something like this is BeWare. Check > out http://www.be.com and click on the BeWare link. We could offer the > commercial firms additional incentives through FreeBSD Mall, giving them > targeted exposure to interested buyers. > (nods) an interesting site, and I do think we could learn a lot from it. My main concern isn't the commercial developers though. As our numbers grow and FreeBSD becomes better known, such support is nearly inevitable I think. I worry more about keeping FreeBSD 'in the loop' as far as freeware support, and enticing people to use FreeBSD as a native development platform, any thoughts on how the branding effort could be used there? [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 16:59:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F68914BDD for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:59:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26441; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:58:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:58:37 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User Registration [was Is there a "how did you hear about us?" ] In-Reply-To: <36FC140D.CCED288C@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Licia wrote: > > > > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > > 2) To encourage more people to complete and send in the form why > > > not try and get volunteers to handle the forms in their country? > > > This would spread the workload and should hopefully more people > > > would send the forms in because they wouldn't have the inconvenience > > > of having to go to the post office to find the cost of mailing to > > > the US. The volunteer could then enter the details from the forms > > > onto the registration database on behalf of the non-connected > > > users. > > > > I personally think this would be a Good Idea. Would that person accept > > responsibility for snail mailing confirmation back to the user with their > > 'FreeBSD Handle' for future reference? I could handle doing so in the US, > > with no difficulty if need be... > > That is such a good idea, it should be integrated with the "whois" protocol. > I guess we'd have to add a check box for "keep my information out of the > whois database," though. > I think i've found a simpler solution to this, actually in just using the person or group's email address, so we won't need any sort of whois system, although if there is serious interest in such, I'd be happy to help develop one :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 17: 5: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D049414BDD for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:04:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26465; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:04:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:04:31 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: Jim Mock Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User Registration [was Is there a "how did you hear about us?" ] In-Reply-To: <19990327103601.A40738@corp.au.triax.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [trimmed a bit :) ] On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Jim Mock wrote: > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 at 14:32:04 -0600, Licia wrote: > > > > This is a good point. I run into this problem now and then with > > various applications I've worked on, and a similar problem with > > phone numbers. I'm not much of an international person though. Can > > you show me a simple template for addresses and phone numbers that > > will work clearly and simply for US and international users? If so, > > even if this project isn't approved, I'll incorporated those > > templates into other things I work on :) > > > > All it'd really need is Zip/Postal code box that doesn't complain if > it's not 5 characters (mine's only 4) and a phone number box that can > handle phone numbers that don't fit the US (xxx)xxx-xxxx format. If > the phone number box is just a blank line (instead of having ()'s for > the area code) it should be ok. Other than that, it'd be the normal > address, city, state/province type thing. Don't forget the country > line either ;) > (nod) I decided on a freeform address field for now, for any software I do that doesn't need to parse out bits of it :) > > I personally think this would be a Good Idea. Would that person > > accept responsibility for snail mailing confirmation back to the > > user with their 'FreeBSD Handle' for future reference? I could > > handle doing so in the US, with no difficulty if need be... > > > > I agree.. I think this is an excellent idea. I'm not quite sure on > the 'FreeBSD Handle' thing though.. care to elaborate on that bit? > I was thinking of using some sort of whois type handle in the FreeBSD user registration database to allow us to separately track user demographics and OS installs with the same system... then I came to my senses, and realized we can do this basically with email addresses, and failing that just letting them enter some string they want to use to identify themselves with :) > > I can handle Australia.. or at least the eastern half of the country. > I'm willing to do the whole thing if no one from the western end steps > up to volunteer. > Wow, we are getting -lots- of interest in this area! :) > > I personally think it's a good contribution, and if this project > > works out could be a benefit to the entire community... Imagine > > actually having better numbers as to how many people are installing > > FreeBSD, and on how many computers :) > > > > I agree.. even if it is a somewhat "small" thing to do, if it works > out, the benefits could be huge. Once we get some decent numbers, > they can be given to Corel, Oracle, Star Division, etc., and say "hey, > we've got some good numbers here, how about a native port".. it'd > definetly be a step in the right direction. > The only really 'small' contribution in my mind is not doing anything :) Handling snail mail registrations is an unknown quantity I think, and could turn into tens of hours a month easily in some countries which would mean a huge number of registrations we just wouldn't have otherwise... [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 17:11:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18F714F98 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26494; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:10:43 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:10:42 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: User Registration [was Is there a "how did you hear about us?" ] In-Reply-To: <10898.922496835@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm running a bit behind this week so I didn't get it all done over last weekend like I'd hoped, but I have finished an "example of concept" server and will write command line and web form based clients for it tomorrow, then once everyone's told me -exactly- how badly written it is, if there is interest in implementing it for production use, I can probably get it done in about another 20 hours of code unless someone with more talent wants to do it :) On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > [We now return to our regularly scheduled productive advocacy in this list] > > > Would you be interested in the possibility of a standalone TCP registration > > server? A simple protocol could be used to create/edit/delete registrations. > > With a simple whois style 'handle' system and basic authentication it would b > > I think it's more than worth trying, let's put it that way. We'd need > to have not just the server but a couple of "front ends" done so we > could test it, but that's probably no biggie. Then there's also the > 45,000 or so previous registration entries which we'd want to merge. > Each registration record looks basically like this: > > > John > Smith > jsmith@yahoo.com >
123 Any street, #321
> Anytown > USA > 98765-321 > options> > 3.1-RELEASE > > > It's not ideal since it contains no real "demographic information" > other than what release they were running at the time that the > registration form was filled out, but we do have over 45,000 of these > guys now and should probably do something with them. :) > > - Jordan > If the database is in -exactly- that form I could write a utility to import them all in one sweep and email each entry with a web page url, their ID, and randomly selected password and request that they please update it.. :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 18:16:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from corp.au.triax.com (slwag2p30.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0B971517F for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@corp.au.triax.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by corp.au.triax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA92936; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:16:12 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:16:11 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Licia Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User Registration [was Is there a "how did you hear about us?" ] Message-ID: <19990402121611.A92862@corp.au.triax.com> Reply-To: jim@corp.au.triax.com References: <19990327103601.A40738@corp.au.triax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 01 Apr 1999 at 19:04:31 -0600, Licia wrote: > On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Jim Mock wrote: [snip..] > > All it'd really need is Zip/Postal code box that doesn't complain > > if it's not 5 characters (mine's only 4) and a phone number box > > that can handle phone numbers that don't fit the US (xxx)xxx-xxxx > > format. If the phone number box is just a blank line (instead of > > having ()'s for the area code) it should be ok. Other than that, > > it'd be the normal address, city, state/province type thing. > > Don't forget the country line either ;) > > > > (nod) I decided on a freeform address field for now, for any > software I do that doesn't need to parse out bits of it :) > That would probably be the easiest way to do it. > > I agree.. I think this is an excellent idea. I'm not quite sure > > on the 'FreeBSD Handle' thing though.. care to elaborate on that > > bit? > > > > I was thinking of using some sort of whois type handle in the > FreeBSD user registration database to allow us to separately track > user demographics and OS installs with the same system... then I > came to my senses, and realized we can do this basically with email > addresses, and failing that just letting them enter some string they > want to use to identify themselves with :) > Ah, ok. Sort of like InterNIC's whois database. If that's the road taken, it probably would be a good idea to not have it publically accessible. > > I can handle Australia.. or at least the eastern half of the > > country. I'm willing to do the whole thing if no one from the > > western end steps up to volunteer. > > > > Wow, we are getting -lots- of interest in this area! :) > Good, it's definetly something worthwhile. > > I agree.. even if it is a somewhat "small" thing to do, if it > > works out, the benefits could be huge. Once we get some decent > > numbers, they can be given to Corel, Oracle, Star Division, etc., > > and say "hey, we've got some good numbers here, how about a native > > port".. it'd definetly be a step in the right direction. > > > > The only really 'small' contribution in my mind is not doing > anything :) Handling snail mail registrations is an unknown > quantity I think, and could turn into tens of hours a month easily > in some countries which would mean a huge number of registrations we > just wouldn't have otherwise... > *nod*.. definetly a good thing. Later, -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@corp.au.triax.com ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Triax Internet Services http://www.triax.com/ / \ The personal: http://www.triax.com/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 18:48:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02EFE15329 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:48:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA15243; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:17:49 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA94744; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:17:48 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990402121748.Q413@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:17:48 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Donald Wilde , Michael Doyle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <3.0.5.32.19990401160343.007d6620@199.107.2.1> <370395C4.899B3EFE@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <370395C4.899B3EFE@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Thu, Apr 01, 1999 at 08:50:28AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 1 April 1999 at 8:50:28 -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > Michael Doyle wrote: >> >> Here's an idea for promoting FreeBSD- >> >> Last week I picked up a PC magazine that had Linux on the >> cover disk (a 1 CD distribution of Red Hat) >> >> Couldn't we put together a 1 CD install/distribution >> of either 2.2.8 or 3.1 and get one or more of the PC >> magazines to put it on their covers? >> > We have talked about this. The short answer is "yes", but it's got to > either work from the CDROm or install onto the FAT32 system. Another > improvement is to make it a 'newbie demo' version that would come up > pretty for newbies with a lot of eye-catching demo stuff. We will > definitely re-visit this issue. I'm going to be in Concord, CA the 7-8-9 > to visit with Jordan and the folks from WC. We'll talak about this & > many other things! Cybernet were giving away a CD which runs FreeBSD directly from the CD at USENIX last year. It was a demo for their NetMax software, which runs on FreeBSD, but it should be possible to modify it to run straight FreeBSD. Contact Michael Suarez . Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 19:21:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 904A314CE4 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:21:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 4165 invoked by alias); 2 Apr 1999 03:21:27 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 4136 invoked by uid 0); 2 Apr 1999 03:21:26 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 03:21:26 -0000 Message-ID: <3704378B.8F9281B5@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:20:43 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Donald Wilde , Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <3.0.5.32.19990401160343.007d6620@199.107.2.1> <370395C4.899B3EFE@thuntek.net> <19990402121748.Q413@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Thursday, 1 April 1999 at 8:50:28 -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > > Michael Doyle wrote: > >> > >> Here's an idea for promoting FreeBSD- > >> > >> Last week I picked up a PC magazine that had Linux on the > >> cover disk (a 1 CD distribution of Red Hat) > >> > >> Couldn't we put together a 1 CD install/distribution > >> of either 2.2.8 or 3.1 and get one or more of the PC > >> magazines to put it on their covers? > >> > > We have talked about this. The short answer is "yes", but it's got to > > either work from the CDROm or install onto the FAT32 system. Another > > improvement is to make it a 'newbie demo' version that would come up > > pretty for newbies with a lot of eye-catching demo stuff. We will > > definitely re-visit this issue. I'm going to be in Concord, CA the 7-8-9 > > to visit with Jordan and the folks from WC. We'll talak about this & > > many other things! > > Cybernet were giving away a CD which runs FreeBSD directly from the CD > at USENIX last year. It was a demo for their NetMax software, which > runs on FreeBSD, but it should be possible to modify it to run > straight FreeBSD. Contact Michael Suarez . The WC set already has a live filesystem on it, couldn't we just use that, then modify it for flashiness, like include a splash screen, full XF86 install and Mozilla? -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 1 19:48:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0D814CE4 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:48:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA15676; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:18:08 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA94844; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:18:06 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990402131806.S413@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:18:06 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nocturne Cc: Donald Wilde , Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <3.0.5.32.19990401160343.007d6620@199.107.2.1> <370395C4.899B3EFE@thuntek.net> <19990402121748.Q413@lemis.com> <3704378B.8F9281B5@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3704378B.8F9281B5@uswest.net>; from Nocturne on Thu, Apr 01, 1999 at 07:20:43PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 1 April 1999 at 19:20:43 -0800, Nocturne wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Thursday, 1 April 1999 at 8:50:28 -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: >>> Michael Doyle wrote: >>>> >>>> Here's an idea for promoting FreeBSD- >>>> >>>> Last week I picked up a PC magazine that had Linux on the >>>> cover disk (a 1 CD distribution of Red Hat) >>>> >>>> Couldn't we put together a 1 CD install/distribution >>>> of either 2.2.8 or 3.1 and get one or more of the PC >>>> magazines to put it on their covers? >>>> >>> We have talked about this. The short answer is "yes", but it's got to >>> either work from the CDROm or install onto the FAT32 system. Another >>> improvement is to make it a 'newbie demo' version that would come up >>> pretty for newbies with a lot of eye-catching demo stuff. We will >>> definitely re-visit this issue. I'm going to be in Concord, CA the 7-8-9 >>> to visit with Jordan and the folks from WC. We'll talak about this & >>> many other things! >> >> Cybernet were giving away a CD which runs FreeBSD directly from the CD >> at USENIX last year. It was a demo for their NetMax software, which >> runs on FreeBSD, but it should be possible to modify it to run >> straight FreeBSD. Contact Michael Suarez . > > The WC set already has a live filesystem on it, couldn't we just use > that, then modify it for flashiness, like include a splash screen, > full XF86 install and Mozilla? Well, there's more than flashiness. You need to be able to write to the file systems, so you need a bit more. Maybe something like PicoBSD on the CD would be the way to go. On the other hand, Cybernet has already figured out how to do it. I'm reasonably sure that they wouldn't want money for the concepts (obviously they probably would for NetMax, but that's not the issue). Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 3:26:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E89114C41 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:26:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11744; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:26:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Michael Doyle Cc: dwilde1@thuntek.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:03:43 +0100." <3.0.5.32.19990401160343.007d6620@199.107.2.1> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 03:26:12 -0800 Message-ID: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Couldn't we put together a 1 CD install/distribution > of either 2.2.8 or 3.1 and get one or more of the PC > magazines to put it on their covers? It's even easier than this given that there's no real need to "put together" anything for this at all. CD #1 of the Walnut Creek CDROM 4 CD product is something that I've always made stand-alone enough to be used as a cover/demo disk by anyone so inclined, all they have to do is let us know about it so that we can both know who's doing such things and also make sure they're being done reasonably, e.g. not somebody's just reselling CD #1 for a ridiculous sum of money under the name "FreeBSD Slackmegapro 2000" or something. Except for egregious abuses like that, we're happy to see things like cover disks and "install-a-thon" give-aways. We need all the PR help we can get! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 3:37:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA70A14BDE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:37:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990402113829.GKJY5454377.mta1-rme@wocker>; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:38:29 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:37:37 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: Your message of "Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:03:43 +0100." <3.0.5.32.19990401160343.007d6620@199.107.2.1> In-reply-to: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990402113829.GKJY5454377.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2 Apr 99, at 3:26, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Except for egregious abuses like that, > we're happy to see things like cover disks and "install-a-thon" > give-aways. We need all the PR help we can get! Oh wow! How can I get hold of some of those CDs for a install-a-thon? No dates yet, but we're planning to hold one, probably in June. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 3:55:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760F714CB3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:55:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11836; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:54:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Donald Wilde Cc: Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Apr 1999 08:50:28 MST." <370395C4.899B3EFE@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 03:54:49 -0800 Message-ID: <11834.923054089@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > pretty for newbies with a lot of eye-catching demo stuff. We will > definitely re-visit this issue. I'm going to be in Concord, CA the 7-8-9 > to visit with Jordan and the folks from WC. We'll talak about this & > many other things! Actually, I don't think that talking about this will really accomplish much of anything since it's already something which has been talked about for years. The FreeBSD demo CD or a counterpart to Slackware's "zipslack" and many similar proposals are one of those cometary topics which come swooshing through -hacker once a year or so, each time generating a lot of "yeah! we really need a ... and it should ... and have a menu which lets you pick ... and ask ..." sorts of comments but absolutely nothing in the way of an actual "product." The reason this generally is is that nobody involved in such discussions to date have also had the spare time and/or technical wizardry to go play interesting vn device games or otherwise figure out where to get a root fs and potentially some swap space from, along with potentially other interesting bits, since booting FreeBSD becomes a little less than straight-forward once you've no handy ufs filesystem lying around. I've examined this one quite a bit myself and see a number of possible approaches to making a workable "zipbsd" or FreeBSD all singing all dancing demo/install CD, but they all fall well into the category of "if you know enough to actually implement any of these suggestions, they'll be already obvious to you and you'll probably have different ideas on how to implement them anyway" tasks. In short, for a thousand and one good suggestions on what such a product should do, see the mailing list archives. For someone with the time and inclination to actually make this a reality, scan the far horizon because I haven't seen that person yet. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 4:25:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316A014C57 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:25:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-034.thuntek.net [207.66.52.34]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id FAA13740; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:24:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:22:28 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I agree that CD#1 is stand-alone enough, Jordan, but it's not demo material by any means. I can't see asking anybody to do even a two-hour minimal install to "look at" a system, especially just to get a command prompt on the screen. Technical evaluators and MIS people, yes, but that's not what Joe LinWin is going to want to see. A demo disk's purpose is to _entertain_ people. Boot from the CD, build a little temporary filesystem within FAT32 or RAM, bring up VGA or SVGA X, and start the show. This is the kind of thing we need to be putting out there on the covers of pulp magazines. Putting a full-on install disk on a consumer PC mag will not have the same effect, even though you're giving away more. We need to plant a hook with "Wow! I want that!" -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 4:38:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5CB14E8E for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:38:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-034.thuntek.net [207.66.52.34]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id FAA14891; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:38:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3704B9B8.5EE9E944@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:36:08 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Licia Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Licia wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > Licia wrote: > > > > > > This sounds like a good idea but personally, I worry about the expense... if > > > each premium were to cost 10 cents, and there were 200,000 registrations, then > > > -just- the cost of the premiums would run $20,000... and I have a feeling > > > there are a bit more than 200,000 people out there using FreeBSD ;) > > > > > > > Yes, but the visibility of knowing that we have 200,000 CONFIRMED users > > would drive enough vendors to our doorstep to double it... and so on. > > > > I agree, but would tend to prefer some way to 'accept a smaller profit on one > item' method than 'here is a prize paid for out of pocket', as a way to > minimize resource usage. Personally I consider a free world class operating > system to be one heck of a prize for registering :) > Sure, but discounting destroys the market for the CD's. It's not wasting resources to give a T-Shirt instead of an equivalent discount, it's adding to the visibility of the "brand" FreeBSD. Business is in business to do more, not less, and that's just as beneficial to the free users, because we need visibility to get respect. We must grow FreeBSD as a way to make money side-by-side with its free user base. Remember, FreeBSD is _still_ free on the Internet, and it takes a noticeable fraction of a megawatt and considerable support from Walnut Creek personnel (and the mirrors) to keep it so. It's all well and good to talk about "treading lightly", but we _need_ financial support just to stay where we are, let alone quadrupling our user base. On top of that, Jordan and Bob give us thousands of CD sets to give away. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 5:28:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D53F714CB3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:28:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12191; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:28:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Apr 1999 23:37:37 +1200." <19990402113829.GKJY5454377.mta1-rme@wocker> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:28:18 -0800 Message-ID: <12189.923059698@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Erm, sorry, I was mixing two different topics. One is permission to replicate CD #1 for use in cover disks, the other is the question of give-aways for install-a-thons and whatnot. The former can use whatever's current, the latter is generally constrained by whatever stocks of "the previous product" I have on hand since I generally can't just chuck the currently selling product off the back of a truck in the name of PR unless that truck happens to be passing by an uebergeek rally or something and the promotional opportunity is just too good to pass up. It all depends on the quantity desired and the intended purpose. - Jordan > > > Except for egregious abuses like that, > > we're happy to see things like cover disks and "install-a-thon" > > give-aways. We need all the PR help we can get! > > Oh wow! How can I get hold of some of those CDs for a install-a-thon? No > dates yet, but we're planning to hold one, probably in June. > > -- > Dan Langille > The FreeBSD Diary > http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 5:30:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6844214CB3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:30:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12209; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Donald Wilde Cc: Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:22:28 MST." <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:30:38 -0800 Message-ID: <12207.923059838@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I agree that CD#1 is stand-alone enough, Jordan, but it's not demo > material by any means. I can't see asking anybody to do even a two-hour > minimal install to "look at" a system, especially just to get a command > prompt on the screen. Technical evaluators and MIS people, yes, but > that's not what Joe LinWin is going to want to see. Ah, but since we don't have anything like that at the moment and the magazine folks have never shown themselves willing to go to that much trouble to "repackage" a cover disk in the past, we have to be pragmatic. CD #1 is what we have now. If and when that should change, we'll reevaluate the situation. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 5:41:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CD01514E1A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 05:41:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 2567 invoked by alias); 2 Apr 1999 13:41:22 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 2533 invoked by uid 0); 2 Apr 1999 13:41:21 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 13:41:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3704C8D8.A098679A@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:40:40 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Donald Wilde , Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <11834.923054089@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > The reason this generally is is that nobody involved in such > discussions to date have also had the spare time and/or technical > wizardry to go play interesting vn device games or otherwise figure > out where to get a root fs and potentially some swap space from, along > with potentially other interesting bits, since booting FreeBSD becomes > a little less than straight-forward once you've no handy ufs > filesystem lying around. > In short, for a thousand and one good suggestions on what such a > product should do, see the mailing list archives. For someone > with the time and inclination to actually make this a reality, > scan the far horizon because I haven't seen that person yet. :-) I'm one of those so-inclined people and I'm dreadfully bored with writing backend VC/VB Windoze apps and NT domain management. Now if someone would please point me in the direction of one of those "Master UNIX Hacking in 21 Days" books I'll get started right away. :-) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 8:17:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.naxs.com (mailman.naxs.com [216.98.64.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E4E14CE9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aiarbuckle@naxs.com) Received: from naxs.com ([216.98.64.181]) by mailman.naxs.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42723U8000L3500S0) with ESMTP id AAA123; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:16:45 -0500 Message-ID: <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:07:20 -0500 From: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" Organization: Donnkenny Apparel, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2A56F8358BF8416AF468ED57" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --------------2A56F8358BF8416AF468ED57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems to me you would get more interest if the system ran completely from the CD, with the exception of having a data space on the hard drive (temporary), then you would have a true demo for the user. Ran as an interactive movie, and then if the user liked it, instructions on how to get an install, either from the CD or as a download at no cost. Even then I feel you will have some problems, as in my experience, most users are casual users, and do not want anything to do with an install. Plug and Play mentalities. Donald Wilde wrote: > I agree that CD#1 is stand-alone enough, Jordan, but it's not demo > material by any means. I can't see asking anybody to do even a two-hour > minimal install to "look at" a system, especially just to get a command > prompt on the screen. Technical evaluators and MIS people, yes, but > that's not what Joe LinWin is going to want to see. > > A demo disk's purpose is to _entertain_ people. Boot from the CD, build > a little temporary filesystem within FAT32 or RAM, bring up VGA or SVGA > X, and start the show. This is the kind of thing we need to be putting > out there on the covers of pulp magazines. Putting a full-on install > disk on a consumer PC mag will not have the same effect, even though > you're giving away more. We need to plant a hook with "Wow! I want > that!" > > -- > Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" > Wilde Media > 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Andrew I. Arbuckle Work: (540) 228-6181 ext 251 Fax: (540) 228-6036 --------------2A56F8358BF8416AF468ED57 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems to me you would get more interest if the system ran completely from the CD, with the exception of having a data space on the hard drive (temporary), then you would have a true demo for the user.  Ran as an interactive movie, and then if the user liked it, instructions on how to get an install, either from the CD or as a download at no cost.  Even then I feel you will have some problems, as in my experience, most users are casual users, and do not want anything to do with an install.  Plug and Play mentalities.

Donald Wilde wrote:

I agree that CD#1 is stand-alone enough, Jordan, but it's not demo
material by any means. I can't see asking anybody to do even a two-hour
minimal install to "look at" a system, especially just to get a command
prompt on the screen. Technical evaluators and MIS people, yes, but
that's not what Joe LinWin is going to want to see.

A demo disk's purpose is to _entertain_ people. Boot from the CD, build
a little temporary filesystem within FAT32 or RAM, bring up VGA or SVGA
X, and start the show. This is the kind of thing we need to be putting
out there on the covers of pulp magazines. Putting a full-on install
disk on a consumer PC mag will not have the same effect, even though
you're giving away more. We need to plant a hook with "Wow! I want
that!"

--
Don Wilde                 "Bringing the Internet to everyone!"
Wilde Media
1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117  voice:      505-771-0709
Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124   e-mail:     dwilde1@thuntek.net

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message

--
Andrew I. Arbuckle
Work: (540) 228-6181 ext 251
 Fax: (540) 228-6036
  --------------2A56F8358BF8416AF468ED57-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 8:43:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724D814E99 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:43:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-169.thuntek.net [207.66.52.169]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id JAA19554; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:42:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:40:29 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It seems to me you would get more interest if the system ran completely from the CD, > with the exception of having a data space on the hard drive > (temporary), then you would have a true demo for the user. Ran as an interactive movie, > and then if the user liked it, instructions on how to get an install, > either from the CD or as a download at no cost. Even then I feel you will have some > problems, as in my experience, most users are casual users, and do > not want anything to do with an install. Plug and Play mentalities. I agree. That's a nice way of describing what I want to see. Even if we steal a bit of RAM for the "disk", rather than the HDD, that'd be fine. Very few of the machines that are shipping now have less than 32M of RAM, we could easily steal 4M of that for a writable filesystem and still have enough for SVGA display with decent color depth. By simply using mtools, we could save that "image" on their hard disk at the end of their session, so they could continue to play the next time. I think, rather than dealing with networking and modems and such, I'd rather preconfigure Apache to come up and have the browser point to it. Self-contained is _much_ easier to handle for a demo, and we could have both resident programs and HTML programs as part of the demonstration stuff. They could study the handbook right off of the CD, for example, while their root window is doing amazing things. Then, when they get tired of playing, the Xscreensaver kicks in and wows them some more. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 8:55:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EFC5714E51 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 58263 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Apr 1999 16:53:54 -0000 Date: 2 Apr 1999 08:53:54 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:53:54 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy Message-ID: <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 09:40:29AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 09:40:29AM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > I agree. That's a nice way of describing what I want to see. Even if we > steal a bit of RAM for the "disk", rather than the HDD, that'd be fine. > Very few of the machines that are shipping now have less than 32M of > RAM, we could easily steal 4M of that for a writable filesystem and > still have enough for SVGA display with decent color depth. By simply > using mtools, we could save that "image" on their hard disk at the end > of their session, so they could continue to play the next time. I think, > rather than dealing with networking and modems and such, I'd rather > preconfigure Apache to come up and have the browser point to it. > Self-contained is _much_ easier to handle for a demo, and we could have > both resident programs and HTML programs as part of the demonstration > stuff. They could study the handbook right off of the CD, for example, > while their root window is doing amazing things. Then, when they get > tired of playing, the Xscreensaver kicks in and wows them some more. I totally agree with the previously said benefits of some sort of promotional disk. That said, I think it is important that, while impressing the user and showing them the benefits of FreeBSD, the disk should not misrepresent what an actual FreeBSD install is like after-the-fact. I like the apache idea for the demo disk but it doesnt seem like the kind of thing that we would want in a _real_ install. Just imagine the user running the demo, getting excited about FreeBSD, then doing a real install and running into twm. Ugh. -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 9:18:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D9A14CB1 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:18:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-169.thuntek.net [207.66.52.169]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id KAA27342; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:18:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:16:11 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Swingle wrote: > I totally agree with the previously said benefits of some sort of > promotional disk. That said, I think it is important that, while > impressing the user and showing them the benefits of FreeBSD, the disk > should not misrepresent what an actual FreeBSD install is like > after-the-fact. I like the apache idea for the demo disk but it doesnt > seem like the kind of thing that we would want in a _real_ install. Just > imagine the user running the demo, getting excited about FreeBSD, then > doing a real install and running into twm. Ugh. And that's another thing I'd like to see changed. Bob wanted to talk about improvements to the install process, and we'd like to see another layer of menu after "Congrats! You've now got FreeBSD installed..." that would allow them to select from some preconfigured installs including a few different desktops, a webserver, a SAMBA server, etc. or simply ignore all of those and jump right into the packages and ports stuff. This can all be done with scripts that call pkg_add and drop config files (.xinitrc and .fvwmrc, for example) into their home directories. As long as we stay away from OPTIMIZING X Windows for their graphics card, we can make decent installs without having to do any probing. It's important that we consider any "improvements" we make from the perspective of the SysAdmin user as well as Joe LinWin. We don't want to make it harder for him to do his job, but adding more options doesn't impact him unless we overrun the CD. Since this is just a few K of scriptwork except for programs like Netscape, we're not in danger of that. Worst comes to worst, we'll have an 'insert CD #3' message dialog for programs that don't exist on CD #1. I'd like to see a preconfigured disk-install, too, that would be even more brainless than the existing Novice install. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 9:28:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CB3B914CDF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:28:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 59082 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Apr 1999 17:28:38 -0000 Date: 2 Apr 1999 09:28:38 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:28:38 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy Message-ID: <19990402092837.A58819@dub.net> References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 10:16:11AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 10:16:11AM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > Bill Swingle wrote: > > > I totally agree with the previously said benefits of some sort of > > promotional disk. That said, I think it is important that, while > > impressing the user and showing them the benefits of FreeBSD, the disk > > should not misrepresent what an actual FreeBSD install is like > > after-the-fact. I like the apache idea for the demo disk but it doesnt > > seem like the kind of thing that we would want in a _real_ install. Just > > imagine the user running the demo, getting excited about FreeBSD, then > > doing a real install and running into twm. Ugh. > > And that's another thing I'd like to see changed. Bob wanted to talk > about improvements to the install process, and we'd like to see another > layer of menu after "Congrats! You've now got FreeBSD installed..." that > would allow them to select from some preconfigured installs including a > few different desktops, a webserver, a SAMBA server, etc. or simply > ignore all of those and jump right into the packages and ports stuff. > This can all be done with scripts that call pkg_add and drop config > files (.xinitrc and .fvwmrc, for example) into their home directories. > As long as we stay away from OPTIMIZING X Windows for their graphics > card, we can make decent installs without having to do any probing. I think this is a great idea but as Jordan will be quick to acuratly point out, we've talked about this before but nothing has happened. Therefore, I am volunteering myself to work on such a project. Anyone else interested in working on such a project? (seriously) > It's important that we consider any "improvements" we make from the > perspective of the SysAdmin user as well as Joe LinWin. We don't want to > make it harder for him to do his job, but adding more options doesn't > impact him unless we overrun the CD. If is is implemented in a way that SysAdmin types can write their own default pkg_add scripts and execute them from the proposed menu it might even help out those sysadmins that do regular installs. > Since this is just a few K of > scriptwork except for programs like Netscape, we're not in danger of > that. Worst comes to worst, we'll have an 'insert CD #3' message dialog > for programs that don't exist on CD #1. I would say this is acceptable accept it kinda blows the whole "first disk is mostly self-contained" deal. > I'd like to see a preconfigured disk-install, too, that would be even > more brainless than the existing Novice install. I'm not sure I get your drift, can you ellaborate? What do you mean by disk-install? -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 12: 7: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A64E14BD3 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:06:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA00448; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:06:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <370522AC.88DD73C2@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:03:56 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net> <19990402092837.A58819@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Swingle wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 10:16:11AM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > > Bill Swingle wrote: > > > > > I totally agree with the previously said benefits of some sort of > > > promotional disk. That said, I think it is important that, while > > > impressing the user and showing them the benefits of FreeBSD, the disk > > > should not misrepresent what an actual FreeBSD install is like > > > after-the-fact. I like the apache idea for the demo disk but it doesnt > > > seem like the kind of thing that we would want in a _real_ install. Just > > > imagine the user running the demo, getting excited about FreeBSD, then > > > doing a real install and running into twm. Ugh. > > > > And that's another thing I'd like to see changed. Bob wanted to talk > > about improvements to the install process, and we'd like to see another > > layer of menu after "Congrats! You've now got FreeBSD installed..." that > > would allow them to select from some preconfigured installs including a > > few different desktops, a webserver, a SAMBA server, etc. or simply > > ignore all of those and jump right into the packages and ports stuff. > > This can all be done with scripts that call pkg_add and drop config > > files (.xinitrc and .fvwmrc, for example) into their home directories. > > As long as we stay away from OPTIMIZING X Windows for their graphics > > card, we can make decent installs without having to do any probing. > > I think this is a great idea but as Jordan will be quick to acuratly point > out, we've talked about this before but nothing has happened. Therefore, > I am volunteering myself to work on such a project. Anyone else > interested in working on such a project? (seriously) > I also believe this is an _essential_ tool for advocacy. I believe I can get Bob to commit to making a lot of thousands of CD's if we can give him the burnable image before LinuxWorld, which is August 9-12th. Let's set a target "drop-dead-it-better-work" date of June 30. If we can't get it done by then, I'll have to pull my nose in and admit that Jordan's right. He's got me... ummm, "irritated"... enough to prove him wrong. However, emotions aside, this would be a killer advertisement for FreeBSD, and I don't think it has to be as technically difficult as has been implied. As long as we stay away from the MS-DOS filesystem except with Mtools, and carefully examine the things we can cull from the distribution, we'll have _plenty_ of room on one CD. The "live filesystem" CD has only 488M filled, and that's including the CVS repository and all the basic system sources. I'd like to leave the sources there, and add a hyperlink system like Forrest Cavalier's http://www.mibsoftware.com/reuse/ website to enhance the documentation. I'll put together a 'strawman' of what I see as needed capabilities and strategies for accomplishing them, and post it on my webpages for everybody to shoot holes in.... err, enhance. :-) > > It's important that we consider any "improvements" we make from the > > perspective of the SysAdmin user as well as Joe LinWin. We don't want to > > make it harder for him to do his job, but adding more options doesn't > > impact him unless we overrun the CD. > > If is is implemented in a way that SysAdmin types can write their own > default pkg_add scripts and execute them from the proposed menu it might > even help out those sysadmins that do regular installs. How? Pull them off a floppy via mcopy? It's easy enough to install scripts for the second go-round of /stand/sysinstall, but what about the first? How do you do it without dropping out, defeating the purpose? > > > Since this is just a few K of > > scriptwork except for programs like Netscape, we're not in danger of > > that. Worst comes to worst, we'll have an 'insert CD #3' message dialog > > for programs that don't exist on CD #1. > > I would say this is acceptable accept it kinda blows the whole "first > disk is mostly self-contained" deal. > See above. > > I'd like to see a preconfigured disk-install, too, that would be even > > more brainless than the existing Novice install. > > I'm not sure I get your drift, can you ellaborate? What do you mean by > disk-install? > The 'novice' install still asks questions and makes knowledge assumptions a newbie will not know. Bob suggested we rename the 'novice' install to 'experienced user' and make a new 'beginner' install that does everything for you as far as disk partitioning and basic distribution loading. > -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 12:25:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F203414CFC for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:25:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA03735; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:24:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <370526D1.4FB20CB3@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:21:37 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net> <19990402092837.A58819@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Let me correct something I just said about the Live Filesystem CD. It does NOT have the sources, I did 'cd /usr/src' rather than 'cd usr/src'... -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 12:41:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E3914E0D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:41:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu) Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) Ident [ewayte] by pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 4B5A7346F; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:37:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:37:04 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Wayte To: Donald Wilde Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-Reply-To: <370522AC.88DD73C2@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think this is a great idea! SuSE Linux has an 'automated' installation that automagically finds the free slice on the disk, then configures the minimum Linux partitions for installation before proceeding with the rest of the installation. I don't know about the other Linuxen as I've only 'experimented' with SuSE before settling on FreeBSD. Eric Wayte, DBA Univ. of Central Florida ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > The 'novice' install still asks questions and makes knowledge > assumptions a newbie will not know. Bob suggested we rename the 'novice' > install to 'experienced user' and make a new 'beginner' install that > does everything for you as far as disk partitioning and basic > distribution loading. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 12:50:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72FE014BDD for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA08125; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:50:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37052CE8.EE97F959@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:47:36 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Whiz-Bang Demo CD References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net> <19990402092837.A58819@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [changed the thread name to accurately reflect what we're supposedly talking about...] We actually would have enough room for the whole /usr/src tree if we remove the CVS repository. /usr/src has 196MB (including lots of excess dross like PC98) and the CVS is 141MB. Has anybody configured the mountable RAMDISK filesystem that can be included in the kernel? I tried building it in, but it made my machine barf, so I took it out and haven't touched it since. We do need some writable fs, and this will be technically _much_ easier than dealing with FAT32 bugs. We can use tar and mcopy to save its 'image' to their MS-DOS filesystem. I have a 486 lunchbox with a VGA LCD that I can use as a test mule. It has 32MB but I can remove part of that in 8MB chunks. If we can make it run on that, we can do anything... ;-) I don't have a CD burner yet (60 days, I need it anyway), but I've got gobs of disk space left, so if somebody'd clue me in as to how to make a boot script I can (selectively) run to mount enough of the filesystem to get to my /var/demodisk/demokernel, I can start working from FFS space. I'm sure I can figure it out, but if somebody knows, I'd appreciate the time savings. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 12:56:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295F014BDD for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:56:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA08825; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:56:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:53:42 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Wayte Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eric Wayte wrote: > > I think this is a great idea! > > SuSE Linux has an 'automated' installation that automagically finds the > free slice on the disk, then configures the minimum Linux partitions for > installation before proceeding with the rest of the installation. > > I don't know about the other Linuxen as I've only 'experimented' with SuSE > before settling on FreeBSD. > Yes, that's it. We have auto-partitioning, all we would need is partition-finding. For me personally, I'm going to have to back away fom one or the other of these threads/projects. Ease of Install is one, and Demo Disk is the other. I choose Demo Disk, as I think it's an easier task technically, but those who want to work on the Install process simplification, I will be glad to assist with resources et al. Bob has already told me it's important to him, too, so that's an assurance that he will help as needed. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 13:55:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F8A014FFE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:54:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 29019 invoked by alias); 2 Apr 1999 21:54:36 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 28988 invoked by uid 0); 2 Apr 1999 21:54:35 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 21:54:35 -0000 Message-ID: <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 13:53:52 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: Eric Wayte , Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: > Eric Wayte wrote: > > I think this is a great idea! > > > > SuSE Linux has an 'automated' installation that automagically finds the > > free slice on the disk, then configures the minimum Linux partitions for > > installation before proceeding with the rest of the installation. > > > > I don't know about the other Linuxen as I've only 'experimented' with SuSE > > before settling on FreeBSD. > > > Yes, that's it. We have auto-partitioning, all we would need is > partition-finding. > > For me personally, I'm going to have to back away fom one or the other > of these threads/projects. Ease of Install is one, and Demo Disk is the > other. I choose Demo Disk, as I think it's an easier task technically, > but those who want to work on the Install process simplification, I will > be glad to assist with resources et al. Bob has already told me it's > important to him, too, so that's an assurance that he will help as > needed. The thing that made installing FreeBSD easier for me was having a printed walk through (from Greg's book) at my side. Online docks are good, but they're a little hard to get at in the middle of an install. Perhaps a shorter version of TCF included with every CD set might be a good idea? Something that doesn't explain what you're doing, just tells you what to do to get a working install. The explanations can come later. This is something that I could actually work on, so here I go: FreeBSD Installation Guide Project We need: Web space for a home site and a person (or two) to make the pages. People with working knowledge of how to setup a basic LAN (NAT, routed/gated, DNS, ipfw, ppp) to work with dialup or DSL/cable. Proof-readers to make sure the information has as few knowledge pre-requisites as possible. Users who are very new to either FreeBSD or unix in general to read through the instructions and point out anything we miss or take for granted. (anything else?) We ask: What topics do we need to cover? Do we really need any printed man pages? What information can be accessed from the CD prior to install? What of that information is printable? (any other points to address?) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 14:15: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE3714E84 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990402221601.IZOP5454377.mta1-rme@wocker>; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:16:01 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nocturne Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:15:25 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990402221601.IZOP5454377.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2 Apr 99, at 13:53, Nocturne wrote: > The thing that made installing FreeBSD easier for me was having a > printed walk through (from Greg's book) at my side. Online docks are > good, but they're a little hard to get at in the middle of an install. > Perhaps a shorter version of TCF included with every CD set might be a > good idea? Something that doesn't explain what you're doing, just tells > you what to do to get a working install. The explanations can come later. I know my first install would have been much easier had I had Greg's book. > This is something that I could actually work on, so here I go: > > FreeBSD Installation Guide Project > > We need: > Web space for a home site and a person (or two) to make the pages. I can give you webspace. > People with working knowledge of how to setup a basic LAN (NAT, > routed/gated, DNS, ipfw, ppp) to work with dialup or DSL/cable. > Proof-readers to make sure the information has as few knowledge > pre-requisites as possible. All of this is already in The FreeBSD Diary. Have a look and see if it's up to scratch. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 14:15:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D113714FE7 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:15:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id PAA26284; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:14:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:12:15 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nocturne , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Go for it, excellent project idea! Before there was CFBSD, there was "Installing and Running FreeBSD," approx 3/4" thick. After next week, I will have access to the web tree of ./advocacy. We can give all projects a web home, you just would need to e-mail me the pages to install. I'd suggest you take a look at the DOC projects already in progress, though, and sign yourself up to lurk on the freebsd-doc mailing list. There's lots already going on and you don't want to step on toes. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 14:15:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C35214E84 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:15:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA21365; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:45:00 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id HAA01221; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:45:00 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990403074500.K413@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:45:00 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Donald Wilde Cc: Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <12207.923059838@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <12207.923059838@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 05:30:38AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 2 April 1999 at 5:30:38 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> I agree that CD#1 is stand-alone enough, Jordan, but it's not demo >> material by any means. I can't see asking anybody to do even a two-hour >> minimal install to "look at" a system, especially just to get a command >> prompt on the screen. Technical evaluators and MIS people, yes, but >> that's not what Joe LinWin is going to want to see. > > Ah, but since we don't have anything like that at the moment and the > magazine folks have never shown themselves willing to go to that much > trouble to "repackage" a cover disk in the past, we have to be > pragmatic. CD #1 is what we have now. If and when that should > change, we'll reevaluate the situation. What about the Cybernet demo disk? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 14:20:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CB214E84 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:20:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14213; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:20:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Donald Wilde , Michael Doyle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Apr 1999 07:45:00 +0930." <19990403074500.K413@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:20:09 -0800 Message-ID: <14211.923091609@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What about the Cybernet demo disk? That will require negotiations with them, something which is ongoing in a much larger context anyway and thus will probably be constrained by the shape of those larger negotations. And that's all I can say about it. Either way, what we have in the short term is still what we have in the short term and people need to focus on providing advocacy with the tools at hand in addition to thinking wistfully about how much easier advocacy would be if we had a bunch of things we don't currently have. What Michael is proposing sounds like a short-term opportunity rather than a long one, which puts the focus squarely on the former camp. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 14:51:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D14A914EC7 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:51:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id PAA02876 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:51:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37054945.9B8C6392@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:48:37 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Advocacy Projects reminder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, all! Just a reminder, check the ongoing Advocacy Projects List on my site at: http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html I update it daily, and there are lots of simple-but-important things to be done on it. For example, we need to compile a list of big corporations besides Yahoo and USWest that use FreeBSD for business purposes. This is important, will somebody take it on? -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 14:54:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F1BD14C9E for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:54:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 70691 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Apr 1999 22:54:28 -0000 Date: 2 Apr 1999 14:54:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:54:28 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Advocacy Projects reminder Message-ID: <19990402145428.A70575@dub.net> References: <37054945.9B8C6392@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <37054945.9B8C6392@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 03:48:37PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 03:48:37PM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > Hi, all! > > Just a reminder, check the ongoing Advocacy Projects List on my site at: > > http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html > > I update it daily, and there are lots of simple-but-important things to > be done on it. For example, we need to compile a list of big > corporations besides Yahoo and USWest that use FreeBSD for business > purposes. This is important, will somebody take it on? I can definatly take this on. Can you provide starting place for me? Od we just need a new section of the gallery called "Big Boys" or something? -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 14:56:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A71311517D for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:56:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 23639 invoked by alias); 2 Apr 1999 22:56:24 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 23607 invoked by uid 0); 2 Apr 1999 22:56:23 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 22:56:23 -0000 Message-ID: <37054AEC.B908B436@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 14:55:40 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy] References: <19990402221601.IZOP5454377.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > > On 2 Apr 99, at 13:53, Nocturne wrote: > > > The thing that made installing FreeBSD easier for me was having a > > printed walk through (from Greg's book) at my side. Online docks are > > good, but they're a little hard to get at in the middle of an install. > > Perhaps a shorter version of TCF included with every CD set might be a > > good idea? Something that doesn't explain what you're doing, just tells > > you what to do to get a working install. The explanations can come later. > > I know my first install would have been much easier had I had Greg's book. > > > This is something that I could actually work on, so here I go: > > > > FreeBSD Installation Guide Project > > > > We need: > > Web space for a home site and a person (or two) to make the pages. > > I can give you webspace. Most excellent, thanks, but I like Donald's idea of having all the doc projects hosted at the same site. > > People with working knowledge of how to setup a basic LAN (NAT, > > routed/gated, DNS, ipfw, ppp) to work with dialup or DSL/cable. > > Proof-readers to make sure the information has as few knowledge > > pre-requisites as possible. > > All of this is already in The FreeBSD Diary. Have a look and see if it's > up to scratch. The information is all well written, and simple to understand for the most part, but you're explaining what you did instead of showing the steps. Plus, it's making assumptions that the reader already knows how to get to the files and information you refer to: You say something like, "I put these lines in /etc/rc.conf..." My original idea is to have it written like, "At the # prompt type... go to this line in the file and type..." Unless folks think it would be too dry for newcomers (which is why I want newcomers to be the proof-readers). It should be understandable by someone with no unix skills at all. Imagine a newbie installing FreeBSD for the first time. Part of the installation requires them to edit a .conf file. The CFBSD or Handbook says which file to edit and explains what they have to change, but says nothing about the commands they have to do to find and open the file. CFBSD has the vi man page, but how's the newbie going to know it's there and what it is unless there's a reference to it? -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 15: 4:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C4714CA8 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14475 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:04:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Speaking of advocacy tasks... Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:04:40 -0800 Message-ID: <14473.923094280@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The very first thing a new user typically visits when they come to our site for the first time is this: http://www.freebsd.org/features.html And somehow, I don't think "bounce buffers" really rates as one of our top features at this point. This text is so stale as to be almost counter-productive in some ways. Any takers? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 15: 7:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F00B14CA8 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:07:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 4075 invoked by alias); 2 Apr 1999 23:07:10 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 4030 invoked by uid 0); 2 Apr 1999 23:07:08 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 23:07:08 -0000 Message-ID: <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:06:25 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: > > > > Go for it, excellent project idea! Before there was CFBSD, there was > "Installing and Running FreeBSD," approx 3/4" thick. > > After next week, I will have access to the web tree of ./advocacy. We > can give all projects a web home, you just would need to e-mail me the > pages to install. I (and anyone else who volunteers) will have to come up with pages first. Nothing fancy, just a page with the mission statement, contact info and objects/requirements. I'll get started on the pages today. May I use the main pages from the Doc Project site as starting templates? Also, should I provide my own graphics, or will you have a repository of existing graphics I can use? > I'd suggest you take a look at the DOC projects already in progress, > though, and sign yourself up to lurk on the freebsd-doc mailing list. > There's lots already going on and you don't want to step on toes. -doc is on majordomo@freebsd.org, right? As for stepping on toes, I can see how this project might undermine the drive to get the Handbook and FAQs updated and revised, but I think that when it comes to newbies, the more documentation options one has at her/his disposal the better. I know people who've read the Handbook and remain totally lost. Then they read man pages and a 60 Lb. UNIX Manual(tm) and suddenly it makes perfect sense to them. Nonetheless, I'll be sure to be careful, this has to work. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 15: 8:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CDA714CA8 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:08:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id QAA05288; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:08:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37054D44.6D9BFBA3@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:05:40 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Advocacy Projects reminder References: <37054945.9B8C6392@thuntek.net> <19990402145428.A70575@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Swingle wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 03:48:37PM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > > Hi, all! > > > > Just a reminder, check the ongoing Advocacy Projects List on my site at: > > > > http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html > > > > I update it daily, and there are lots of simple-but-important things to > > be done on it. For example, we need to compile a list of big > > corporations besides Yahoo and USWest that use FreeBSD for business > > purposes. This is important, will somebody take it on? > > I can definatly take this on. Can you provide starting place for me? Od > we just need a new section of the gallery called "Big Boys" or > something? > > -Bill > Boy, are you a sucker today, Bill! ;-) I just signed you up for the lead on the Demo Disk project! Take a look at the link on the advotasks page and duck! before you get mail-bombed with suggestions. As far as the 'Big Boys' list goes, start listing (straight HTML) and we'll post it when it gets big enough to be something more than a joke. Try to get pointers to the actual FreeBSD service or a description of it as well as home pages. We will be extensively revamping the Gallery pages over the next couple of months to make them more effective, both for us and for our commercial vendors. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 15:21: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1AA14F35 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:21:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id QAA07606; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:20:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3705502F.99C63046@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:18:07 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nocturne Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nocturne wrote: > > Donald Wilde wrote: > > > > > > > > Go for it, excellent project idea! Before there was CFBSD, there was > > "Installing and Running FreeBSD," approx 3/4" thick. > > > > After next week, I will have access to the web tree of ./advocacy. We > > can give all projects a web home, you just would need to e-mail me the > > pages to install. > > I (and anyone else who volunteers) will have to come up with pages > first. Nothing fancy, just a page with the mission statement, contact > info and objects/requirements. I'll get started on the pages today. > May I use the main pages from the Doc Project site as starting > templates? Also, should I provide my own graphics, or will you have > a repository of existing graphics I can use? There's a full slate of Daemons on the Freebsdmall.com site, but the more the better (if you're talented, of course!). Yes, take the SGML from there and work with it. > > > I'd suggest you take a look at the DOC projects already in progress, > > though, and sign yourself up to lurk on the freebsd-doc mailing list. > > There's lots already going on and you don't want to step on toes. > > -doc is on majordomo@freebsd.org, right? > Yes. It's an interesting read when they're active. > As for stepping on toes, I can see how this project might undermine > the drive to get the Handbook and FAQs updated and revised, but I > think that when it comes to newbies, the more documentation options > one has at her/his disposal the better. I know people who've read the > Handbook and remain totally lost. Then they read man pages and a 60 > Lb. UNIX Manual(tm) and suddenly it makes perfect sense to them. > Nonetheless, I'll be sure to be careful, this has to work. Exactly. Jordan's install booklet is concise, but it assumes too many things. The handbook tries to go too many places. BTW, you're _Doug_ Pilgrim, right? I prefer names to handles. > -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 15:29:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5367914CCE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:29:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 24503 invoked by alias); 2 Apr 1999 23:29:14 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 24464 invoked by uid 0); 2 Apr 1999 23:29:12 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 1999 23:29:12 -0000 Message-ID: <3705529E.7D8BA869@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:28:30 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <3705502F.99C63046@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: > > I (and anyone else who volunteers) will have to come up with pages > > first. Nothing fancy, just a page with the mission statement, contact > > info and objects/requirements. I'll get started on the pages today. > > May I use the main pages from the Doc Project site as starting > > templates? Also, should I provide my own graphics, or will you have > > a repository of existing graphics I can use? > > There's a full slate of Daemons on the Freebsdmall.com site, but the > more the better (if you're talented, of course!). Some folks tell me I've got good graphics skills, but I'd rather devote my time to quality documentation, not asthetics. > Yes, take the SGML from there and work with it. SGML? :-) I haven't even finished learning HTML 3.0 yet. > BTW, you're _Doug_ Pilgrim, right? I prefer names to handles. Ahh, no. It's Darren Pilgrim. I'm used to using handles and kinda paranoid about the use of my real name online, particularly in uncontrolled forums. I can change over to my real name if it would help. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 15:45:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 106D614CCE for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:45:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-014.thuntek.net [207.66.52.14]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id QAA10913; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:44:50 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <370555DB.7AE0486@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:42:19 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nocturne Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <3705502F.99C63046@thuntek.net> <3705529E.7D8BA869@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nocturne wrote: > > Donald Wilde wrote: > > > I (and anyone else who volunteers) will have to come up with pages > > > first. Nothing fancy, just a page with the mission statement, contact > > > info and objects/requirements. I'll get started on the pages today. > > > May I use the main pages from the Doc Project site as starting > > > templates? Also, should I provide my own graphics, or will you have > > > a repository of existing graphics I can use? > > > > There's a full slate of Daemons on the Freebsdmall.com site, but the > > more the better (if you're talented, of course!). > > Some folks tell me I've got good graphics skills, but I'd rather > devote my time to quality documentation, not asthetics. > Yes, that's definitely more important. > > Yes, take the SGML from there and work with it. > > SGML? :-) I haven't even finished learning HTML 3.0 yet. > It's just more tags, mostly for indexing purposes, not a problem. > I can change over to my real name if it would help. > No, you stay Nocturne if you wish. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 15:48:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61FBB151C9 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:48:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-014.thuntek.net [207.66.52.14]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id QAA11314; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:48:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3705569D.5A85755D@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:45:33 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of advocacy tasks... References: <14473.923094280@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The very first thing a new user typically visits when they come to our > site for the first time is this: > > http://www.freebsd.org/features.html > > And somehow, I don't think "bounce buffers" really rates as one of our > top features at this point. This text is so stale as to be almost > counter-productive in some ways. Any takers? > You're totally right, Jordan. That's an important one. I'll take that on myself, it'll be good practice for me. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 15:49:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D766C15057 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:49:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990402235025.JLAH5454377.mta1-rme@wocker>; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:50:25 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nocturne Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:49:51 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy] Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <37054AEC.B908B436@uswest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990402235025.JLAH5454377.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2 Apr 99, at 14:55, Nocturne wrote: > Most excellent, thanks, but I like Donald's idea of having all the > doc projects hosted at the same site.  Fair enough too. > > > People with working knowledge of how to setup a basic LAN (NAT, > > > routed/gated, DNS, ipfw, ppp) to work with dialup or DSL/cable. > > > Proof-readers to make sure the information has as few knowledge > > > pre-requisites as possible. > > > > All of this is already in The FreeBSD Diary. Have a look and see if > > it's up to scratch. > > The information is all well written, and simple to understand for the most > part, but you're explaining what you did instead of showing the steps. > Plus, it's making assumptions that the reader already knows how to get to > the files and information you refer to: > > You say something like, "I put these lines in /etc/rc.conf..." > My original idea is to have it written like, "At the # prompt type... go > to this line in the file and type..." Unless folks think it would be too > dry for newcomers (which is why I want newcomers to be the proof-readers). Fair enough. I know think we're aiming at two different audiences. or perhaps I've misunderstood your intentions. There are some assumptions I make regarding the reader. Not all of those are stated. Perhaps all that is needed to make the Diary material more suitable for the installation guide is, for example, a separate section on how to edit a file. > It should be understandable by someone with no unix skills at all. > Imagine a newbie installing FreeBSD for the first time. Part of the > installation requires them to edit a .conf file. The CFBSD or > Handbook says which file to edit and explains what they have to > change, but says nothing about the commands they have to do to find > and open the file. CFBSD has the vi man page, but how's the newbie > going to know it's there and what it is unless there's a reference to it? Yep. I still reckon this could be covered by a section on "how to edit a file". I don't think you intend the the Installation guide will be step by step for every file that needs to be maintained. What we need is a short introduction to Unix commands. We can make use of existing documents. I have a website section titled "Stuff for Newbies" which might be a good starting point. I think that would elminate both repetition and boredom for the reader. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 16:35:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 501D315057 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 25946 invoked by alias); 3 Apr 1999 00:35:12 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 25925 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 1999 00:35:11 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 00:35:11 -0000 Message-ID: <37056214.9E32FE04@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:34:28 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy] References: <19990402235025.JLAH5454377.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > > It should be understandable by someone with no unix skills at all. > > Imagine a newbie installing FreeBSD for the first time. Part of the > > installation requires them to edit a .conf file. The CFBSD or > > Handbook says which file to edit and explains what they have to > > change, but says nothing about the commands they have to do to find > > and open the file. CFBSD has the vi man page, but how's the newbie > > going to know it's there and what it is unless there's a reference to it? > > Yep. I still reckon this could be covered by a section on "how to edit a > file". I don't think you intend the the Installation guide will be step > by step for every file that needs to be maintained. What we need is a > short introduction to Unix commands. We can make use of existing > documents. I have a website section titled "Stuff for Newbies" which > might be a good starting point. I think that would elminate both > repetition and boredom for the reader. I'm not aiming at writing another tutorial or admin tome. O'Reilly et al already make many books to that end. My idea is to write a no-assumptions installation walk-through, showing the command that you need to type, which files to edit, how to edit them, etc. Sort of like those assembly instructions you get with do-it-yourself kits because, let's face it, UNIX is the ultimate do-it-yourself kit. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 16:38: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 424F314E1A for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:38:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 28477 invoked by alias); 3 Apr 1999 00:37:39 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 28451 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 1999 00:37:39 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 00:37:39 -0000 Message-ID: <370562A9.581D5A62@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:36:57 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <3705502F.99C63046@thuntek.net> <3705529E.7D8BA869@uswest.net> <370555DB.7AE0486@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: >>> Yes, take the SGML from there and work with it. >> >> SGML? :-) I haven't even finished learning HTML 3.0 yet. >> >It's just more tags, mostly for indexing purposes, not a problem. Can it be taken care of with page-design tools, or should I add it to the list of Things I Must Learn? >> I can change over to my real name if it would help. >> >No, you stay Nocturne if you wish. Too late, now you're stuck with the spoils. :-) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 17:22:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F9D14DB5 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:22:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id DAA83844; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 03:19:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Robert Watson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: emachines References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 03 Apr 1999 03:19:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: Robert Watson's message of "Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:01:06 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson writes: > So, it looks like the emachine people are looking for resellers. Given a > number of successful reports concerning using FreeBSD on the emachines, it > would be cool is Walnut Creek (or someone else) started shipping $400 > machines with FreeBSD + XFree86 installed, as workstations or low-end web > servers. You seem to be missing an important point. The EMachines are cheap because they're sponsored by ISPs. Who's going to sponsor FreeBSD EMachines? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 2 17:54: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62E7C151DF for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:54:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15016; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:53:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Donald Wilde Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of advocacy tasks... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:45:33 MST." <3705569D.5A85755D@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 17:53:41 -0800 Message-ID: <15014.923104421@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You're totally right, Jordan. That's an important one. I'll take that on > myself, it'll be good practice for me. Excellent! This really is a task which is long overdue. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 0:32:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 20D0D14F7A for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:32:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 16827 invoked by alias); 3 Apr 1999 03:03:55 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 16806 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 1999 03:03:55 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 03:03:55 -0000 Message-ID: <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 19:03:02 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: >On Friday, 2 April 1999 at 15:06:25 -0800, Nocturne wrote: >> As for stepping on toes, I can see how this project might undermine >> the drive to get the Handbook and FAQs updated and revised, but I >> think that when it comes to newbies, the more documentation options >> one has at her/his disposal the better. I know people who've read the >> Handbook and remain totally lost. Then they read man pages and a 60 >> Lb. UNIX Manual(tm) and suddenly it makes perfect sense to them. >> Nonetheless, I'll be sure to be careful, this has to work. > >OK, I can agree that the handbook could be clearer on a lot of >issues. But why use that as a reason for starting a different effort? >It seems to me that you could gain a whole lot by fixing the >description in the handbook. And yes, you'll be welcome there :-) I think Don Wilde said it best when he said the "handbook tries to go too many places." -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 0:36:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA73A14F2A for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:36:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990403083612.GYHH5643075.mta2-rme@wocker>; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:36:12 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Darren Pilgrim Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:35:20 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990403083612.GYHH5643075.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2 Apr 99, at 19:03, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > I think Don Wilde said it best when he said the "handbook tries to go too > many places." That reminds me of a maxim I was once told : "a function should do one thing and do it well". -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 1:21: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21884151A5 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:21:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cracauer@cons.org) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by cons.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA28473; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:19:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:19:02 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Speaking of advocacy tasks... Message-ID: <19990403111901.A28453@cons.org> References: <14473.923094280@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <14473.923094280@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 03:04:40PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <14473.923094280@zippy.cdrom.com>, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > The very first thing a new user typically visits when they come to our > site for the first time is this: > > http://www.freebsd.org/features.html > > And somehow, I don't think "bounce buffers" really rates as one of our > top features at this point. This text is so stale as to be almost > counter-productive in some ways. Any takers? I have a new advocacy page at http://www.cons.org/cracauer/freebsd.html It's under deveopment. The page can still not decide which target audience it is for, not to speak of non-native english author problems and some not really backed up technical detail descriptions. But if someone of you immediatlely (spelling ? :-) thinks one of the items could be useful for features.html, please drop me a line and let me commit it. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 Paper: (private) Waldstrasse 200, 22846 Norderstedt, Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 1:24:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9CCCB151A5 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:24:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 5592 invoked by alias); 3 Apr 1999 09:22:45 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 5574 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 1999 09:22:44 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 09:22:44 -0000 Message-ID: <3705DDAC.8114E7F0@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:21:48 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <19990403083612.GYHH5643075.mta2-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > > On 2 Apr 99, at 19:03, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > > I think Don Wilde said it best when he said the "handbook tries to go too > > many places." > > That reminds me of a maxim I was once told : "a function should do one > thing and do it well". That alone, to me, is the whole reason I came up with the IGP, it will do one thing, and do as good a job as it possibly can. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 1:37:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 18B2F14C85 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:37:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 11613 invoked by alias); 3 Apr 1999 09:35:30 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 11595 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 1999 09:35:30 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 09:35:30 -0000 Message-ID: <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:34:33 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> <19990403125339.V413@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: >>> OK, I can agree that the handbook could be clearer on a lot of >>> issues. But why use that as a reason for starting a different effort? >>> It seems to me that you could gain a whole lot by fixing the >>> description in the handbook. And yes, you'll be welcome there :-) >> >> I think Don Wilde said it best when he said the "handbook tries to go >> too many places." > >What does that mean? What does that say about including an >installation guide in it? There is one there already. The best thing >we can do for the FreeBSD community is to ensure that it's good, not >to cry "NIH" and do (y)our own thing. I was commended for my idea by more than a couple of well-knowns in the community. Now people doubt that it would be a good idea at all, that it would reinvent the wheel or undermine existing resources. Between that and the indecisive nature of charters and unorganized structures of services and resources it's enough to make me just throw my hands up and walk away from it, just forget about any active contribution. So you tell me, what should I do? Disregard everyone's comments and do what I want how I want and hope that maybe, just maybe, someone else might also benefit from something that made my life easier, or should I sit here, defending my principals and debating my ideas, trying to get the support of people that I should be able to rely on for help and end up doing little more than grinding my motivations for doing anything productive into the mud? I want to go forward with my idea and I hope that folks like Don Wilde and Dan Langille can and will help me achieve my objectives. I also want to be able to share my projects, but my ambitions aren't going to fair well if I have to defend myself each time. Maybe this is a rant and maybe it's the result of not knowing all that I should. But this *is* what I see and this *is* what I believe. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 1:47:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D0214C13 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:47:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA23406; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:15:37 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id TAA02534; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:15:36 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:15:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> <19990403125339.V413@lemis.com> <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 01:34:33AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 3 April 1999 at 1:34:33 -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >>>> OK, I can agree that the handbook could be clearer on a lot of >>>> issues. But why use that as a reason for starting a different effort? >>>> It seems to me that you could gain a whole lot by fixing the >>>> description in the handbook. And yes, you'll be welcome there :-) >>> >>> I think Don Wilde said it best when he said the "handbook tries to go >>> too many places." >> >> What does that mean? What does that say about including an >> installation guide in it? There is one there already. The best thing >> we can do for the FreeBSD community is to ensure that it's good, not >> to cry "NIH" and do (y)our own thing. > > I was commended for my idea by more than a couple of well-knowns in > the community. Now people doubt that it would be a good idea at all, > that it would reinvent the wheel or undermine existing resources. > Between that and the indecisive nature of charters and unorganized > structures of services and resources it's enough to make me just > throw my hands up and walk away from it, just forget about any active > contribution. Hmm. I've just finished sending you a message on the discussion in -newbies. I could almost use the same text again. The ideas are good, but they don't fit into the existing framework. Nobody's complaining about your willingness to help, but the best way to help is to join in in the ongoing efforts, not reinventing the wheel. > So you tell me, what should I do? Disregard everyone's comments and > do what I want how I want and hope that maybe, just maybe, someone > else might also benefit from something that made my life easier, or > should I sit here, defending my principals and debating my ideas, > trying to get the support of people that I should be able to rely on > for help and end up doing little more than grinding my motivations for > doing anything productive into the mud? > > I want to go forward with my idea and I hope that folks like Don Wilde > and Dan Langille can and will help me achieve my objectives. I also > want to be able to share my projects, but my ambitions aren't going to > fair well if I have to defend myself each time. Nobody's asking you to defend yourself. But it's worth discussing the points. > Maybe this is a rant and maybe it's the result of not knowing all > that I should. But this *is* what I see and this *is* what I > believe. You're relatively new in the FreeBSD fold. That doesn't mean that you're not welcome, or that your ideas are not. But remember that we have a number of structures in place. They're not all good, and with good reason we will change them. But we need a good reason. What I said was that I don't see a good reason. And don't overestimate my importance, either. People can (and often do) shoot me down as well. My statement was intended to be understood as "why not do it this way?". Consider what happens if you do it your own way, rather than putting it in the handbook: we'll end up with two different installation guides (well, three if you include mine, but that one costs money :-), one undoubtedly better than the other, with contradictions in them which will just confuse people. If instead you take it upon yourself (with help, possibly) to rewrite (or replace) the installation guide in the handbook, you'll be doing everybody a service. The difference between the two approaches is in small details: do you write it as a standalone document, or as one which will fit in the handbook? Of course, if you write it so it will work either way, so much the better. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 2: 2:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C744D14CB6 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:01:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 23595 invoked by alias); 3 Apr 1999 09:59:43 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 23570 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 1999 09:59:42 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 09:59:42 -0000 Message-ID: <3705E655.DA6A46F@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:58:45 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> <19990403125339.V413@lemis.com> <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > Consider what happens if you do it your own way, rather than putting > it in the handbook: we'll end up with two different installation > guides (well, three if you include mine, but that one costs money :-), > one undoubtedly better than the other, with contradictions in them > which will just confuse people. If instead you take it upon yourself > (with help, possibly) to rewrite (or replace) the installation guide > in the handbook, you'll be doing everybody a service. The difference > between the two approaches is in small details: do you write it as a > standalone document, or as one which will fit in the handbook? Of > course, if you write it so it will work either way, so much the > better. Then my intentions would be to significantly overhaul the Handbook. The problem is that the Handbook in it's current format can be quite useful, but you have to know what you're doing. If people think the Handbook itself should be a no-assumptions manual, then I can adjust my objectives to an end that satifies that ideal. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 2:11:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [208.138.36.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CFD14BE4 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:09:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id CAA51185; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:07:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:07:45 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Bill Swingle Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, dwilde1@thuntek.net Subject: Re: Advocacy Projects reminder Message-ID: <19990403020745.B49547@001101.zer0.org> References: <37054945.9B8C6392@thuntek.net> <19990402145428.A70575@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990402145428.A70575@dub.net>; from Bill Swingle on Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 02:54:28PM -0800 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 02:54:28PM -0800, Bill Swingle wrote: > On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 03:48:37PM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > > Just a reminder, check the ongoing Advocacy Projects List on my site at: > > > > http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html > > > > I update it daily, and there are lots of simple-but-important things to > > be done on it. For example, we need to compile a list of big > > corporations besides Yahoo and USWest that use FreeBSD for business > > purposes. This is important, will somebody take it on? > > I can definatly take this on. Can you provide starting place for me? Od > we just need a new section of the gallery called "Big Boys" or > something? Bill, A resource you may want to use is the Prominent Users subcategory of the FreeBSD category at dmoz.org, the Open Directory Project. Take a look. If you want the ODP to do the cataloguing for you, either use the Add URL button at the top of the page to suggest links to the editors (me), or sign up as a category editor for that category. The ODP accepts multiple editors per category, and anyone may become an editor. It would be really nice to have more prominent users on that page. Thanks! Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Heisenberg might have been here. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 2:30:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913BC14A0B for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16696; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:28:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Apr 1999 01:58:45 PST." <3705E655.DA6A46F@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 02:28:28 -0800 Message-ID: <16694.923135308@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Then my intentions would be to significantly overhaul the Handbook. The current "owner" of the handbook, in the position of FreeBSD Docmeister, is Nik Clayton and the freebsd docs team. Whatever you can "sell" to them is what will probably happen (and vice-versa) so I'd suggest that you simply start working up a set of suggestions for them all on doc@freebsd.org and see where it all leads. The process of "overhauling the handbook" during any of its previous incarnations honestly hasn't much more formalized or involved than that given that the folks in question also had a fair idea of what they were doing and what the various SGML-related constraints on the process were. Assuming that the same holds true for any future Don Quixotes out there, I can see any number of significant Handbook overhauls occurring in the future. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 2:43:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F3014A0B for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:43:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16799; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:41:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, dwilde1@thuntek.net Subject: Re: Advocacy Projects reminder In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Apr 1999 02:07:45 PST." <19990403020745.B49547@001101.zer0.org> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 02:41:36 -0800 Message-ID: <16797.923136096@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > A resource you may want to use is the Prominent Users subcategory of the > FreeBSD category at dmoz.org, the Open Directory Project. Take a look. > > This is really nice! I've added a link to their FreeBSD section in our own web pages. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 3: 0:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [208.138.36.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F039D14E84 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 03:00:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id CAA52088; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:58:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:58:09 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, dwilde1@thuntek.net Subject: Re: Advocacy Projects reminder Message-ID: <19990403025809.M51071@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990403020745.B49547@001101.zer0.org> <16797.923136096@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <16797.923136096@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 02:41:36AM -0800 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 02:41:36AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > A resource you may want to use is the Prominent Users subcategory of the > > FreeBSD category at dmoz.org, the Open Directory Project. Take a look. > > > > > > This is really nice! I've added a link to their FreeBSD section > in our own web pages. Thanks. I went through all of what I consider the most common places (mailing lists, the Gallery, hearsay, half-truths, little white lies, big whoppers, and basically anything that came around) to put it together. Removing the last directory from the URL reveals the main FreeBSD section. I'm sure there are many things that could be added in there... Know what I mean? Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter I got a Pentium II for my girlfriend. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Good trade, eh? http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 4:57:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9926414C85 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:57:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10TPxs-000GRu-0C; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:55:57 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA01944; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:55:01 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id NAA00387; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:52:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:52:00 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Donald Wilde Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy Message-ID: <19990403135200.B299@marder-1.localhost> References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 10:16:11AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 10:16:11AM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > we'll have an 'insert CD #3' message dialog for programs that > don't exist on CD #1. > That needs doing for pkg_add anyway. The number of packages that have dependencies on the other CD is far too many. Having to make a note of the "missing" dependencies, swap CDs, pkg_add them, change CDs and add the original package is a PITA for those who know what they're doing but it must give newbies a real headache _and_ it makes FreeBSD look bad. -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 5: 6:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ECA3614C85 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 05:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 4347 invoked from network); 3 Apr 1999 13:04:18 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 13:04:18 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA45765; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:04:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199904031304.IAA45765@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Speaking of advocacy tasks... In-Reply-To: <19990403111901.A28453@cons.org> from Martin Cracauer at "Apr 3, 99 11:19:02 am" To: cracauer@cons.org (Martin Cracauer) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:04:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Martin Cracauer said: > In <14473.923094280@zippy.cdrom.com>, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The very first thing a new user typically visits when they come to our > > site for the first time is this: > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/features.html > > > > And somehow, I don't think "bounce buffers" really rates as one of our > > top features at this point. This text is so stale as to be almost > > counter-productive in some ways. Any takers? > Bounce buffers are an anti-feature now :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 6:17:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sand3.global.net.uk (sand3.global.net.uk [194.126.80.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD0714DC0 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 06:17:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from [194.126.67.89] (helo=ukonline.co.uk) by sand3.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #3) id 10TRCI-0002LG-00; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:14:54 +0100 Message-ID: <37062286.F7A9B3BF@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 15:15:34 +0100 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mark Ovens , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting more people to use FreeBSD References: <37361.922661611@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If this is a matter of paying someone, why hasn't it been done? Is this a *major* financial undertaking for FreeBSD.org ? If so, what kind of monies would we be talking here ? "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > Half the battle in getting Windows users to try FreeBSD is getting > > them to install it on their PCs and using it. This, of course, > > Yep. > > > It would be much easier if they could load FreeBSD onto their > > existing HD. > > Slackware does this and they call it "zipslack" - apparently a very > popular feature of theirs, in fact. > > > What I would propose, and ask if it is technically possible, is to > > be able to create a virtual UFS inside a file on a FAT disk. I'm > > thinking along the lines of the way DoubleSpace/Stacker work(ed). > > In Windows there would just be a large file (FREEBSD.DAT?), with > > the read-only, hidden, & system attributes set, but internally the > > contents wuld be laid out like a Unix FS. Ideally it would be > > possible to boot FreeBSD from DOS (does DOSBOOT allow that for > > anything other than an install?). > > You could do this, yes, using the vn device to attach it. You can > even use the Windows swap file as the FreeBSD swap area, if one > exists. People have reported this to work, anyway - you can do a lot > with the vn device, assuming that you also add some hacks to make it > possible to mount one as root. > > > I believe that such a system would be really useful in getting > > Windows users to at least give FreeBSD a try. It would make trying > > FreeBSD as easy as those 30-day trial versions of Windows applications. > > Yep! > > > Is this idea feasible, how easy would it be to implement and would > > the time and effort be worth it for the potential returns? > > 1. It's feasable. > > 2. It would require somebody with a reasonably significant > amount of clue to implement (we've looked into it before). > > 3. It would be worth the time and effort, IMHO, for all the reasons > you state. > > The only issue is that this has been brought up at least 10 times > before, and each time by someone who also says: > > > Yes, I know the usual response to "why don't we" suggestions is > > "don't just suggest it, do it" but, as I said before, this is beyond > > my technical ability. > > So it never progresses any further beyond this point and whatever > energy goes into discussing it proves, in hindsight, to be completely > wasted. :-( > > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 8:27:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B113E14C8B for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:27:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-021.thuntek.net [207.66.52.21]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id JAA22644; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:25:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37064093.A72D201E@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:23:47 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net> <19990403135200.B299@marder-1.localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Ovens wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 10:16:11AM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > > we'll have an 'insert CD #3' message dialog for programs that > > don't exist on CD #1. > > > > That needs doing for pkg_add anyway. The number of packages that > have dependencies on the other CD is far too many. Having to make > a note of the "missing" dependencies, swap CDs, pkg_add them, change > CDs and add the original package is a PITA for those who know what > they're doing but it must give newbies a real headache _and_ it > makes FreeBSD look bad. > The key issue there (I think) is that some of the foundation packages are ports, not packages. I know it's a royal pain; I've been bitten many times. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 8:46: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE3614BEA for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-021.thuntek.net [207.66.52.21]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id JAA24973; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:44:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <370644D5.3A636821@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:41:57 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> <19990403125339.V413@lemis.com> <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Re: your One of the things you'll have to get used to is that anybody who stands up gets poked at, sometimes even by Project pillars like Jordan and Greg. Use it to stiffen your resolve, and don't let it dismay you. Any project which gets followed through on has value somewhere. All this talk about the handbook ignores the fact that the @#$%!! handbook is NOT accessible when you're doing an install, and Jordan's little booklet doesn't give you a damn bit of explanation as to WHY you'd want to do anything in an install. Stay the course, Darren. Talk to the -newbies and ignore the crabby, jaded ones who've forgotten what it's like not to have a clue about BSD. :-D -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 9:31:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540AF14F09 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:31:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-166.thuntek.net [207.66.52.166]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id KAA00646; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:29:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37064F61.AB4B4612@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:26:57 -0700 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> <19990403125339.V413@lemis.com> <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> <3705E655.DA6A46F@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Before I get flamed from both sides, let me clarify my position further, Darren. Both Greg and Jordan are right, that there are current efforts ongoing that you should consider joining, or at least researching. Each of these two guys has contributed _far_ more than I to this Project, and they _do_ have a clue as to how to be successful at it. That said, however, I have never seen a little booklet which does what you describe. Jordan's install booklet makes way too many assumptions, and, as I said, it says nothing of WHY one would make one choice over another. Reading the README files buried at the root of the disk is hardly more helpful. Greg's book is a lot like the handbook, in that it tries to cover many things in many shapes and forms. We need a simple guide that gets Joe LinWin up to speed with a working desktop, taking into account also the experienced-but-new-to-FreeBSD SysAdmin who needs to get running quickly so he can begin to do the configuration he'll need to do. There aren't really a lot of decision points in the basic install as long as they're explained with detail in the options. Now, as to which ports to install, that's another real pail of worms. As you can see from earlier threads, I'm also concerned about that issue. I'd say do your thing, even if it's just straight text. We have others who will be glad to format a winning effort, because we all know it's important. Of course, there's also the fact that others will be working on making the install cleaner, too, forcing you to keep up... :-) -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 11:28: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1610614E16 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:28:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21265; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:25:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Christopher Raven Cc: Mark Ovens , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting more people to use FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Apr 1999 15:15:34 +0100." <37062286.F7A9B3BF@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 11:25:12 -0800 Message-ID: <21263.923167512@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If this is a matter of paying someone, why hasn't it been done? It isn't a matter of paying someone. It's a matter of finding someone with both the skill and time (paid or otherwise) to do it. So far, most people only seem to *think* they have the skill to do it and thus we make no progress. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 11:30:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FD614F93 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:30:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from genisis@istar.ca) Received: from ts8-11.kin.istar.ca ([207.216.1.122] helo=genisis) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10TW5W-0002b9-00 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:28:15 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990403143001.007b2a90@istar.ca> X-Sender: genisis@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 14:30:01 -0500 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: Dru Subject: Serious FTP: Behind the scenes of Walnut Creek CDrom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A bit slow starting, but not a bad FreeBSD article in this month's issue of SunWorld: http://www.sunworld.com/swol-04-1999/swol-04-silicon.html?0402a The link to: ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/configuration is also worth mentioning. Dru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 13:47:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CA714E22 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:47:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15490; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:45:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd015471; Sat Apr 3 14:45:50 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA12230; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:45:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904032145.OAA12230@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:45:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dwilde1@thuntek.net, relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <11834.923054089@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 2, 99 03:54:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Actually, I don't think that talking about this will really accomplish > much of anything since it's already something which has been talked > about for years. The FreeBSD demo CD or a counterpart to Slackware's > "zipslack" and many similar proposals are one of those cometary topics > which come swooshing through -hacker once a year or so, each time > generating a lot of "yeah! we really need a ... and it should ... and > have a menu which lets you pick ... and ask ..." sorts of comments but > absolutely nothing in the way of an actual "product." That may have something to do with the fact that FreeBSD doesn't have a native "umsdosfs" like Linux does, thanks to Udo Walter, and the obvious soloution to this (a UMSDOS stacking layer) can't be written because VFS stacking doesn't work. Or not. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 14:27:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2AB14CAC for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23266; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd023250; Sat Apr 3 15:25:12 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA13716; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:25:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904032225.PAA13716@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:25:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dpilgrim@uswest.net, dwilde1@thuntek.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Apr 3, 99 07:15:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmm. I've just finished sending you a message on the discussion in > -newbies. I could almost use the same text again. The ideas are > good, but they don't fit into the existing framework. Nobody's > complaining about your willingness to help, but the best way to help > is to join in in the ongoing efforts, not reinventing the wheel. This reminds me of a statement an engineering VP made in a former company that: "We need everybody rowing in the same direction". Of course, with engineers in the room, somone (not me) piped up: "Yeah, but it's the _wrong_ direction". Just an anecdote. > > Maybe this is a rant and maybe it's the result of not knowing all > > that I should. But this *is* what I see and this *is* what I > > believe. > > You're relatively new in the FreeBSD fold. That doesn't mean that > you're not welcome, or that your ideas are not. But remember that we > have a number of structures in place. They're not all good, and with > good reason we will change them. But we need a good reason. What I > said was that I don't see a good reason. And don't overestimate my > importance, either. People can (and often do) shoot me down as well. > My statement was intended to be understood as "why not do it this > way?". I think relative newness is a job requirement for what he proposes to do. I also think that it doesn't undermine the work you've done (not that I seriously believe that you believe that, BTW), or the handbook. Finally, it can't hurt to have a lot of resources pop up when you ask a searh engine about FreeBSD. As long as the information is accurate, the more the better. People learn by metaphor. They are inherently visual, tactile, audiory, or spatial. I think until there are installation guides in each of these metaphors ("look at this", "listen to this", "type this", "think of this"), there's room for more installation guides. And if it turns out that we need 30 of them to cover the four bases, then we should look at this as an application of a genetic algorithm in the real world. > Consider what happens if you do it your own way, rather than putting > it in the handbook: we'll end up with two different installation > guides (well, three if you include mine, but that one costs money :-), > one undoubtedly better than the other, with contradictions in them > which will just confuse people. Put the best one at the top of the "links" list for the "installing FreeBSD" section of the FreeBSD web site. 8-). Better is relative, of course. See above. People will use whichever one "grabs" them. > If instead you take it upon yourself > (with help, possibly) to rewrite (or replace) the installation guide > in the handbook, you'll be doing everybody a service. The difference > between the two approaches is in small details: do you write it as a > standalone document, or as one which will fit in the handbook? Of > course, if you write it so it will work either way, so much the > better. Fitting it into the handbook has plusses and minuses. The big minus is that, with "The One True Bible" approach, you cover the topic only a single way, when multiple ways might really be a requirement. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 15:48:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6438114DDD for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:48:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Ta71-0002mD-0C; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 23:46:04 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id AAA00337; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 00:45:32 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id AAA01145; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 00:42:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 00:42:49 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Donald Wilde Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy Message-ID: <19990404004248.D299@marder-1.localhost> References: <11742.923052372@zippy.cdrom.com> <3704B684.9C55D77A@thuntek.net> <3704EB36.708A399B@naxs.com> <3704F2FD.F1FE13BC@thuntek.net> <19990402085354.B58046@dub.net> <3704FB5B.6DFE8E9F@thuntek.net> <19990403135200.B299@marder-1.localhost> <37064093.A72D201E@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <37064093.A72D201E@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 09:23:47AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 09:23:47AM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > On Fri, Apr 02, 1999 at 10:16:11AM -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > we'll have an 'insert CD #3' message dialog for programs that > > > don't exist on CD #1. > > > > > > > That needs doing for pkg_add anyway. The number of packages that > > have dependencies on the other CD is far too many. Having to make > > a note of the "missing" dependencies, swap CDs, pkg_add them, change > > CDs and add the original package is a PITA for those who know what > > they're doing but it must give newbies a real headache _and_ it > > makes FreeBSD look bad. > > > The key issue there (I think) is that some of the foundation packages > are ports, not packages. I know it's a royal pain; I've been bitten many > times. That may also be the case, but try installing gimp and enlightenment, all their dependencies are packages. > -- > Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" > Wilde Media > 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 16:52:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6A4F14BD5 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:52:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990404005224.CUBP5707006.mta2-rme@wocker>; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:52:24 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:50:51 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: Darren Pilgrim In-reply-to: <199904032225.PAA13716@usr04.primenet.com> References: <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Apr 3, 99 07:15:36 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990404005224.CUBP5707006.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 3 Apr 99, at 22:25, Terry Lambert wrote: > I think relative newness is a job requirement for what he proposes > to do. One of the biggest obstacles I had when starting in with FreeBSD was not knowing anything about unix. For example, when having trouble with my file system, someone asked me what was in fstab. I had no idea now to see what was in there. They had to tell me about cat. As a newcomer, I believe it's vitally important for people to have practical examples of how to do something. The man pages are really only useful if you already know what you are doing. That's part of the reason why I write my webpages. Granted, there are selfish motives [mostly so I can remember what I did and how]. But given the number of people using my site and the references made to it by other people, stuff like that is useful. This post isn't a self-promotion exercise. It's an attempt to blatently point out that more is needed. And that's what IGP is all about. I think it's vital that it be written for newbies by newbies. FWIW, I classify myself as a newbie. I think it was Greg that said: > > Consider what happens if you do it your own way, rather than putting it > > in the handbook: we'll end up with two different installation guides > > (well, three if you include mine, but that one costs money :-), one > > undoubtedly better than the other, with contradictions in them which > > will just confuse people. What's wrong with more than one guide? Should I abandon my website now? Your book is great. I use it. But not everyone can get it. The handbook is great. Not everyone uses it. I refer to it all the time from my documents. Contradictions can be fixed. They are not an unsurmountable barrior. I think we are all agreed that something more is needed. The only decision now is how. Darren, do not waver. Your stuff is needed. I'll help you any way I can. Whether you choose to go the handbook or whatever, IGP still needed. The best witness to that fact is the number of request we get on undernet #freebsd for help with installs. more power to you. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 18:13:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B94014D9A for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:13:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 17187 invoked by alias); 4 Apr 1999 02:11:53 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 17174 invoked by uid 0); 4 Apr 1999 02:11:52 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 02:11:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3706CA33.986B5C15@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 18:10:59 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Apr 3, 99 07:15:36 pm <19990404005224.CUBP5707006.mta2-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > Your book is great. I use it. But not everyone can get it. The handbook > is great. Not everyone uses it. I refer to it all the time from my > documents. Greg's book has a permanent place stacked next to my monitor, along with UNIX Power Tools and my hardware reference manuals, I use almost every day. > Darren, do not waver. Your stuff is needed. I'll help you any way I can. > Whether you choose to go the handbook or whatever, IGP still needed. The > best witness to that fact is the number of request we get on undernet > #freebsd for help with installs. Given all the off-list offers and on-list discussion it's pretty obvious to me that the IGP is sorely needed. I'm going to see to it that the IGP goes through to compile a no-assumptions guide. I've had a very long think about the Handbook and incorporating the IGP with it and come to the conclusion that while parts of the IGP probably could fit very well with the Handbook, rewriting the Handbook is just not what I want to do. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 18:16:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE7414D9A for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:16:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA173080016; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:40:16 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:40:16 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > I think Don Wilde said it best when he said the "handbook tries to go > too many places." Regardless. The handbook is the most concise, free documentation the project has and it should be updated, not replaced. I'll gladly review (and commit) patches for clarification on anything, but duplicating the effort that has gone into it is silly and pointless. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 18:22:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D030A14EE4 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:22:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA175610370; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:46:10 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:46:10 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > I was commended for my idea by more than a couple of well-knowns in > the community. Now people doubt that it would be a good idea at all, > that it would reinvent the wheel or undermine existing resources. > Between that and the indecisive nature of charters and unorganized > structures of services and resources it's enough to make me just > throw my hands up and walk away from it, just forget about any active > contribution. Blah, blah, yadda, yadda. Instead of being a hero for the people try updaing the existing documentation. > So you tell me, what should I do? Disregard everyone's comments and > do what I want how I want and hope that maybe, just maybe, someone > else might also benefit from something that made my life easier, or > should I sit here, defending my principals and debating my ideas, > trying to get the support of people that I should be able to rely on > for help and end up doing little more than grinding my motivations for > doing anything productive into the mud? If you want to duplicate work, by all means, put it on your own website and scream on the mailing lists "_MY_ work is better, go to http://foo/FreeBSD-better-handbook/". Just don't expect anyone to 'cvs rm' the handbook (which isn't bad at all) and import your newest brainstorm. > I want to go forward with my idea and I hope that folks like Don Wilde > and Dan Langille can and will help me achieve my objectives. I also > want to be able to share my projects, but my ambitions aren't going to > fair well if I have to defend myself each time. That would be because you are trying to replace an established work with your pipedream. > Maybe this is a rant and maybe it's the result of not knowing all that > I should. But this *is* what I see and this *is* what I believe. This may sound like a quote from a jkh post, but: I haven't seen anything tangible, just an "I don't like this", and when you've moved on to other things, the handbook will still be here. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 18:24:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2915114EE4 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:24:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA175700493; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:48:13 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:48:12 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <3705E655.DA6A46F@uswest.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > The problem is that the Handbook in it's current format can be quite > useful, but you have to know what you're doing. If people think the > Handbook itself should be a no-assumptions manual, then I can adjust > my objectives to an end that satifies that ideal. I'd be okay with no-assumptions entries, but not the whole handbook. I'm quite proud that the entry on newfs and adding hard drives wasn't a "this is what you type exactly" entry. God forbid, I learned something about slices/partitions/etc. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 18:29: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03BCB14D30 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:28:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA177470744; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:52:24 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:52:24 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Donald Wilde Cc: Mark Ovens , Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-Reply-To: <37064093.A72D201E@thuntek.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > The key issue there (I think) is that some of the foundation packages > are ports, not packages. I know it's a royal pain; I've been bitten many > times. If they are a port and not a package there is a 99% chance that we (the ports people) cannot legally or technically make it a package. No other reason, and it can't be 'fixed'. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 18:35:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 35C5D14D91 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:35:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 4069 invoked by alias); 4 Apr 1999 02:33:23 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 4044 invoked by uid 0); 4 Apr 1999 02:33:21 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 02:33:21 -0000 Message-ID: <3706CF3C.726F2EF6@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 18:32:28 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> <19990403125339.V413@lemis.com> <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> <3705E655.DA6A46F@uswest.net> <37064F61.AB4B4612@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: > Before I get flamed from both sides, let me clarify my position further, > Darren. > > Both Greg and Jordan are right, that there are current efforts ongoing > that you should consider joining, or at least researching. Each of these > two guys has contributed _far_ more than I to this Project, and they > _do_ have a clue as to how to be successful at it. Before I even suggested the IGP I spend most of a week reading things like Jordan's booklet, Greg's book, the Handbook, the FreeBSD Diary and countless FAQs, readmes, even man pages. All of it is great, but all of it assume you already have at least the basic unix skills. The only reason I can say that most of it made sense to me is because of my experience with using shell accounts on SunOS and BSDI. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 19:38:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.digital-web.net (sonic.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A857014D27 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:38:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by sonic.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04283; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:32:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:32:46 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@sonic.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Jay WIllis Subject: top uptime list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know this isn't really useful to site from a scientific point of view, but it's fun and kind of gives a nice broad picture. I was looking through freshmeat and came across a listing for this site : http://uptime.hexon.cx/ The idea behind it is to try and provide a listing for uptimes on different machines. Well according to the news section the freebsd client was now available as of today ( 3 Apr ). So I downloaded and signed up to of my freebsd servers. Check out the top 10 list, where the owner is "Joseph Scott" (that's me by the way :-) The two machines were ranked 3 and 4 when I last looked. Also check out the general stats page ( linked from the main page ). It gives some numbers based on the servers that are signed up. It appears that the two I signed up were the first two FreeBSD ones, so the average uptime is a little higher than the other ones :-) Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 20:14:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fosburgh.dyndns.org (Dorm-36314.RH.UH.EDU [129.7.141.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9885B14D42 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:14:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wotan@fosburgh.dyndns.org) Received: from localhost (wotan@localhost) by fosburgh.dyndns.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA42812; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:12:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from wotan@fosburgh.dyndns.org) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:12:54 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Fosburgh Reply-To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu To: Joseph Scott Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jay WIllis Subject: Re: top uptime list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Joseph Scott wrote: > > I know this isn't really useful to site from a scientific point of > view, but it's fun and kind of gives a nice broad picture. > > I was looking through freshmeat and came across a listing for > this site : > > http://uptime.hexon.cx/ > > The idea behind it is to try and provide a listing for uptimes on > different machines. Well according to the news section the freebsd client > was now available as of today ( 3 Apr ). So I downloaded and signed up to > of my freebsd servers. > > Check out the top 10 list, where the owner is "Joseph Scott" (that's me by > the way :-) The two machines were ranked 3 and 4 when I last looked. > > Also check out the general stats page ( linked from the main page ). It > gives some numbers based on the servers that are signed up. It appears > that the two I signed up were the first two FreeBSD ones, so the average > uptime is a little higher than the other ones :-) > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up 10000+ days ... Jonathan Fosburgh Geotechnician Snyder Oil Corporation Houston, TX Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498 Manager, FreeBSD Webring: http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498/computer/freebsdring.html ICQ: 32742908 AIM: Namthorien To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 20:16:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 244C114D42 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 96235 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Apr 1999 04:14:58 -0000 Date: 3 Apr 1999 20:14:58 -0800 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:14:58 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: top uptime list Message-ID: <19990403201458.A96111@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jonathan Fosburgh on Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 10:12:54PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actaully I'd have to say that is a bit lame. It makes FreeBSD'rs look kinda silly for cheating. Oh well. -Bill On Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 10:12:54PM -0600, Jonathan Fosburgh wrote: > On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Joseph Scott wrote: > > > > > I know this isn't really useful to site from a scientific point of > > view, but it's fun and kind of gives a nice broad picture. > > > > I was looking through freshmeat and came across a listing for > > this site : > > > > http://uptime.hexon.cx/ > > > > The idea behind it is to try and provide a listing for uptimes on > > different machines. Well according to the news section the freebsd client > > was now available as of today ( 3 Apr ). So I downloaded and signed up to > > of my freebsd servers. > > > > Check out the top 10 list, where the owner is "Joseph Scott" (that's me by > > the way :-) The two machines were ranked 3 and 4 when I last looked. > > > > Also check out the general stats page ( linked from the main page ). It > > gives some numbers based on the servers that are signed up. It appears > > that the two I signed up were the first two FreeBSD ones, so the average > > uptime is a little higher than the other ones :-) > > > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up > 10000+ days ... -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 20:46:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9895314DC5 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:46:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 19922 invoked by alias); 4 Apr 1999 04:44:35 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 19880 invoked by uid 0); 4 Apr 1999 04:44:34 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 04:44:34 -0000 Message-ID: <3706EDFD.6010D9B1@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 20:43:41 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > Blah, blah, yadda, yadda. Instead of being a hero for the people try > updaing the existing documentation. > If you want to duplicate work, by all means, put it on your own website > and scream on the mailing lists "_MY_ work is better, go to > http://foo/FreeBSD-better-handbook/". > > Just don't expect anyone to 'cvs rm' the handbook (which isn't bad at all) > and import your newest brainstorm. > That would be because you are trying to replace an established work with > your pipedream. > This may sound like a quote from a jkh post, but: I haven't seen anything > tangible, just an "I don't like this", and when you've moved on to other > things, the handbook will still be here. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Perhaps you'd like to read my other comments and elaboration about the IGP? I'm not trying to replace the Handbook. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 20:51: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4542414F87 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:50:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 23923 invoked by alias); 4 Apr 1999 04:48:59 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 23849 invoked by uid 0); 4 Apr 1999 04:48:56 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 04:48:56 -0000 Message-ID: <3706EF03.7E754C4D@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 20:48:03 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Gregory Sutter , Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, dwilde1@thuntek.net Subject: Re: Advocacy Projects reminder References: <16797.923136096@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > A resource you may want to use is the Prominent Users subcategory of the > > FreeBSD category at dmoz.org, the Open Directory Project. Take a look. > > > > > > This is really nice! I've added a link to their FreeBSD section > in our own web pages. I can't decide which I love more, the idea that Microsoft doesn't trust their own web server products, or the fact that two of their most popular web services use FreeBSD. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 21: 1:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 146EC14E17 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:01:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 2028 invoked by alias); 4 Apr 1999 04:59:52 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 2006 invoked by uid 0); 4 Apr 1999 04:59:51 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 1999 04:59:51 -0000 Message-ID: <3706F193.873DE1F2@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 20:58:59 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> <19990403125339.V413@lemis.com> <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> <370644D5.3A636821@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: > > Re: your > > One of the things you'll have to get used to is that anybody who stands > up gets poked at, sometimes even by Project pillars like Jordan and > Greg. Use it to stiffen your resolve, and don't let it dismay you. Aye, point well taken. But this is my first serious attempt, couldn't yall have at least handed me a can of mace before throwing me to the dogs? :-) In all seriousness, though, that whole rant was more just me venting and rattling on like I do when I get passionate about something than a gripe. But hey, it sparked ernest discussion about a long-time misunderstanding/problem didn't it? > Stay the course, Darren. Talk to the -newbies and ignore the crabby, > jaded ones who've forgotten what it's like not to have a clue about BSD. > :-D I plan on soliciting for volunteers in -newbies. I just want to have some kind of a webpage up for them to read before waving the Uncle Sam posters. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 21: 3: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-atm.maine.rr.com (ns.maine.rr.com [204.210.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226B814DC5 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:03:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lethvian@maine.rr.com) Received: from maine.rr.com (dt074n03.maine.rr.com [24.93.136.3]) by mail-atm.maine.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28974; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 23:59:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37071A6E.7CFB8279@maine.rr.com> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 23:53:18 -0800 From: "Daniel J. Frost" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu Cc: Joseph Scott , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jay WIllis Subject: Re: top uptime list References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thing is...the freebsd project didn't embark until early 1993. 10,000 days ago is ~28 years or 1971, which precedes even the 2.xBSD development (1978). Jonathan Fosburgh wrote: > On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Joseph Scott wrote: > > > > > I know this isn't really useful to site from a scientific point of > > view, but it's fun and kind of gives a nice broad picture. > > > > I was looking through freshmeat and came across a listing for > > this site : > > > > http://uptime.hexon.cx/ > > > > The idea behind it is to try and provide a listing for uptimes on > > different machines. Well according to the news section the freebsd client > > was now available as of today ( 3 Apr ). So I downloaded and signed up to > > of my freebsd servers. > > > > Check out the top 10 list, where the owner is "Joseph Scott" (that's me by > > the way :-) The two machines were ranked 3 and 4 when I last looked. > > > > Also check out the general stats page ( linked from the main page ). It > > gives some numbers based on the servers that are signed up. It appears > > that the two I signed up were the first two FreeBSD ones, so the average > > uptime is a little higher than the other ones :-) > > > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up > 10000+ days ... > > Jonathan Fosburgh > Geotechnician > Snyder Oil Corporation > Houston, TX > > Home Page: > http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498 > Manager, FreeBSD Webring: > http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498/computer/freebsdring.html > ICQ: 32742908 > AIM: Namthorien > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 21:20:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9E214C33 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:20:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id OAA16579; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:18:20 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3706F44B.A0EBB47F@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 14:10:35 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu Cc: Joseph Scott , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jay WIllis Subject: Re: top uptime list References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Fosburgh wrote: > > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up > 10000+ days ... That no Unix has been up for that long on the face of earth might be of some relevance, though? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "nothing better than the ability to perform cunning linguistics" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 21:26:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fosburgh.dyndns.org (Dorm-36314.RH.UH.EDU [129.7.141.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D3014C33 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:26:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wotan@fosburgh.dyndns.org) Received: from localhost (wotan@localhost) by fosburgh.dyndns.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA42960; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 23:17:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from wotan@fosburgh.dyndns.org) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 23:17:06 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Fosburgh Reply-To: jef53313@Bayou.UH.EDU To: "Daniel J. Frost" Cc: jef53313@Bayou.UH.EDU, Joseph Scott , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jay WIllis Subject: Re: top uptime list In-Reply-To: <37071A6E.7CFB8279@maine.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Daniel J. Frost wrote: > Thing is...the freebsd project didn't embark until early 1993. 10,000 days ago > is ~28 years or 1971, which precedes even the 2.xBSD development (1978). > > Jonathan Fosburgh wrote: > > > On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Joseph Scott wrote: > > > > > > > > I know this isn't really useful to site from a scientific point of > > > view, but it's fun and kind of gives a nice broad picture. > > > > > > I was looking through freshmeat and came across a listing for > > > this site : > > > > > > http://uptime.hexon.cx/ > > > > > > The idea behind it is to try and provide a listing for uptimes on > > > different machines. Well according to the news section the freebsd client > > > was now available as of today ( 3 Apr ). So I downloaded and signed up to > > > of my freebsd servers. > > > > > > Check out the top 10 list, where the owner is "Joseph Scott" (that's me by > > > the way :-) The two machines were ranked 3 and 4 when I last looked. > > > > > > Also check out the general stats page ( linked from the main page ). It > > > gives some numbers based on the servers that are signed up. It appears > > > that the two I signed up were the first two FreeBSD ones, so the average > > > uptime is a little higher than the other ones :-) > > > > > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up > > 10000+ days ... > > > > Jonathan Fosburgh > > Geotechnician > > Snyder Oil Corporation > > Houston, TX > > > > Home Page: > > http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498 > > Manager, FreeBSD Webring: > > http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498/computer/freebsdring.html > > ICQ: 32742908 > > AIM: Namthorien I ranthe numbers, and I know how long ago it is. :) Perhaps I should have put a tag combo around it. Jonathan Fosburgh Geotechnician Snyder Oil Corporation Houston, TX Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498 Manager, FreeBSD Webring: http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498/computer/freebsdring.html ICQ: 32742908 AIM: Namthorien To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 21:56:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA1B3150A4 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:56:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 97567 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Apr 1999 05:54:45 -0000 Date: 3 Apr 1999 21:54:45 -0800 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:54:45 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: US West Message-ID: <19990403215445.B97472@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was working on adding some more high-profile FreeBSD users to the list I am compiling and was wondering if anyone knows what FreeBSD's role at US West is. I remember US West being listed on the last print catalog as as user but have not seen any other info. -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 22:37:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lunatic.oneinsane.net (lunatic.oneinsane.net [207.113.133.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B0614D73 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:37:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net) Received: (from insane@localhost) by lunatic.oneinsane.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id WAA22762 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:35:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from insane) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:35:13 -0800 From: "Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] Message-ID: <19990403223512.A22484@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Reply-To: insane@oneinsane.net References: <37052E56.D243D4F6@thuntek.net> <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net> <370540BF.C67A5442@thuntek.net> <37054D71.A05B12B4@uswest.net> <19990403115350.S413@lemis.com> <370584E6.796DD2A5@uswest.net> <19990403125339.V413@lemis.com> <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> <370644D5.3A636821@thuntek.net> <3706F193.873DE1F2@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <3706F193.873DE1F2@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 08:58:59PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD lunatic.oneinsane.net 3.1-STABLE X-Opinion: What you read here is my IMHO X-Disclaimer: I am a firm believer in RTFM X-WWW: http://www.oneinsane.net X-PGP-KEY: http://www.oneinsane.net/~insane/insane-pgp5i.txt X-Uptime: 10:33PM up 3 days, 4:21, 2 users, load averages: 0.04, 0.03, 0.00 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 08:58:59PM -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: This all sounds like making a book called FreBSD for Dummies. Sorry I couldn't resist. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron Rosson ... and a UNIX user said ... The InSaNe One rm -rf * insane@oneinsane.net and all was null and void ------------------------------------------------------------------- daemon(n): 1. an attendant power or spirit : GENIUS 2. the cute little mascot of the FreeBSD operating system To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 3 22:55:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BAE214DCD for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07144; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 01:53:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA12825; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 01:53:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990403223512.A22484@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 01:53:44 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: "Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson" Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Ado Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 04-Apr-99 Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson wrote: > On Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 08:58:59PM -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > > This all sounds like making a book called FreBSD for Dummies. Sorry > I couldn't resist. Not necessarily a bad idea. I first got started in DOS off of a dummies book. (After graduating from C-64 BASIC. :) Unfortunately, a lot of potential newbies (such as incoming college freshmen) have never used a CLI, and they need all the help they can get to get started. Unfortunately at my school they only cover Un*x briefly (2 credit class) and stress NT. The only ones who actually learn any Un*x are the ones who put want to and do it on their own. And of those who have their interesets piqued (sp?), many give up easily because it's too hard. Esp. for those whe live in a 'point and click' world. Experience shows that those who can use Un*x are often better programmers because they usually know more of what is going on behind the scenes in the computer, so for their own sake I would like as many of my fellow classmates as possible to learn this stuff. Some of 'em need a pretty basic helping hand, and a book can be tehre 24/7, while one person just can't always do that. Go for it Darren! --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 0:46:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA4D15137 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 00:46:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA05980; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 00:43:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199904040843.AAA05980@implode.root.com> To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: US West In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Apr 1999 21:54:45 PST." <19990403215445.B97472@dub.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:43:42 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I was working on adding some more high-profile FreeBSD users to the list >I am compiling and was wondering if anyone knows what FreeBSD's role at >US West is. I remember US West being listed on the last print catalog as >as user but have not seen any other info. It's used throughout their Internet division. Although I know some numbers, I don't think it would be proper for me to disclose them...but perhaps someone from US West might do that. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 8: 3:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C329114E35 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-046.thuntek.net [207.66.52.46]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id JAA04030; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37077E4B.ACAB0229@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 08:59:23 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Mark Ovens , Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > The key issue there (I think) is that some of the foundation packages > > are ports, not packages. I know it's a royal pain; I've been bitten many > > times. > > If they are a port and not a package there is a 99% chance that we (the > ports people) cannot legally or technically make it a package. No other > reason, and it can't be 'fixed'. > Yes, I know, Bill. I'm not implying in any way that you _can_ fix this in the simplest way. The only way I can see is to actually drive "make" from the /stand/sysinstall, including the CD change blurb, and I'm not sure that's a good idea at all. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 8:17:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from euphoria.confusion.net (euphoria.confusion.net [209.63.19.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D0D14F87 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@euphoria.confusion.net) Received: from euphoria.confusion.net (euphoria.confusion.net [209.63.19.10]) by euphoria.confusion.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA25412; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:15:27 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:15:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Larry Berland To: Joseph Scott Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jay WIllis Subject: Re: top uptime list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is a third FreeBSD machine holding the number one spot, but it must be an error since it claims to have been up before the PC architecture or FreeBSD even existed. It claims about 27 years continuous uptime. On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Joseph Scott wrote: > > I know this isn't really useful to site from a scientific point of > view, but it's fun and kind of gives a nice broad picture. > > I was looking through freshmeat and came across a listing for > this site : > > http://uptime.hexon.cx/ > > The idea behind it is to try and provide a listing for uptimes on > different machines. Well according to the news section the freebsd client > was now available as of today ( 3 Apr ). So I downloaded and signed up to > of my freebsd servers. > > Check out the top 10 list, where the owner is "Joseph Scott" (that's me by > the way :-) The two machines were ranked 3 and 4 when I last looked. > > Also check out the general stats page ( linked from the main page ). It > gives some numbers based on the servers that are signed up. It appears > that the two I signed up were the first two FreeBSD ones, so the average > uptime is a little higher than the other ones :-) > > > Joseph Scott > joseph@randomnetworks.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 8:50:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FBA414D1A for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:50:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-046.thuntek.net [207.66.52.46]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id JAA09273; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:48:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37078944.FA513403@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 09:46:12 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <199904032225.PAA13716@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > [snip] > People learn by metaphor. They are inherently visual, tactile, > audiory, or spatial. > > I think until there are installation guides in each of these > metaphors ("look at this", "listen to this", "type this", "think > of this"), there's room for more installation guides. > Terry, that's an excellent summation! I _really_ like that thought. My goal, of course, is to add to the advocate base so that we don't detract from current efforts. Some will join existing projects and some will start off in new directions. Lots of times, the 'existing directions' have a steep entry curve. There are groups (like the DocBook and PDP projects) working to address that issue, but they themselves have steep entry curves as well. I've been at this for 6 years now, and I still consider myself a FreeBSD newbie. I'm all for a propagation of different efforts to explain it, and part of my role as I see it is to see that the facts are right. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 8:59: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F46A14D1A for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-046.thuntek.net [207.66.52.46]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id JAA10360; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:56:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37078B4A.FDEE5765@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 09:54:50 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG _Nobody_ here is saying that the Handbook should _not_ be updated and expanded, Bill. The Handbook is the definitive meta-resource (above the source code and man pages), and I would bet that now that the DocBook transistion is happening, Nik and the rest of the guys who've been doing it will get on to their _real_ goal, which is doing the updates of which you speak. My point was that the handbook doesn't do any good while your computer's in pieces. Darren's point is that the Handbook -- and Greg's book -- scare newbies who would be quite happy with FreeBSD once their system was installed. It's that initial hump that we want to get them over, so they can _get__to_ the Handbook, -questions, Dan's site, DN, The Open Directory Project, and all the other resources we have out there. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 9:39:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44BA314F08 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:38:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: from localhost (eagle@localhost) by eagle.phc.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25055; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:31:38 GMT (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:31:38 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle To: Donald Wilde Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: demo disk was freebsd acvocacy In-Reply-To: <370522AC.88DD73C2@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Interesting topic, I can see several difficulties with making it all work. as Jordan mentioned. 32 meg with no swap is asking for trouble even in a controlled enviroment, that kills the idea of netscape and xwindows in itself. can we fix the win95/98 filesystem stuff enough to allow us to mount a file as swap space? if this is done storing configuration information is simple as well. in this instance as well as the previously discussed packeged installation stuff a database of current cards and moniters would go a long way to simplifying matters. well thats my 2 cents on that subject Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 10: 0:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7591524D for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:00:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: from localhost (eagle@localhost) by eagle.phc.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25075; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:55:10 GMT (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:55:08 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <3705E0A9.49257DF5@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > >>> OK, I can agree that the handbook could be clearer on a lot of > >>> issues. But why use that as a reason for starting a different effort? > >>> It seems to me that you could gain a whole lot by fixing the > >>> description in the handbook. And yes, you'll be welcome there :-) > >> > >> I think Don Wilde said it best when he said the "handbook tries to go > >> too many places." > > > >What does that mean? What does that say about including an > >installation guide in it? There is one there already. The best thing > >we can do for the FreeBSD community is to ensure that it's good, not > >to cry "NIH" and do (y)our own thing. > > I was commended for my idea by more than a couple of well-knowns in > the community. Now people doubt that it would be a good idea at all, > that it would reinvent the wheel or undermine existing resources. > Between that and the indecisive nature of charters and unorganized > structures of services and resources it's enough to make me just > throw my hands up and walk away from it, just forget about any active > contribution. > > So you tell me, what should I do? Disregard everyone's comments and > do what I want how I want and hope that maybe, just maybe, someone > else might also benefit from something that made my life easier, or > should I sit here, defending my principals and debating my ideas, > trying to get the support of people that I should be able to rely on > for help and end up doing little more than grinding my motivations for > doing anything productive into the mud? > > I want to go forward with my idea and I hope that folks like Don Wilde > and Dan Langille can and will help me achieve my objectives. I also > want to be able to share my projects, but my ambitions aren't going to > fair well if I have to defend myself each time. > > Maybe this is a rant and maybe it's the result of not knowing all that > I should. But this *is* what I see and this *is* what I believe. Doesn't matter how good the idea is, somebody will always have negative comments, you can decide how you want to shut up the detractors, by writing the documentation and doing a good job of it, or walking away. I personnally hope you decide to go forward with it, good documentation goes a long way in getting people to use and enjoy freebsd and that is the whole point of advocacy is it not? rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 12:42:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21CF15280 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:42:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-058.thuntek.net [207.66.52.58]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA10247; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:40:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3707BFB7.D487D66@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:38:31 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just got back from B&N, and they had a really good book whose format you might want to emulate. It's called "Perl and CGI for the WWW", by Elizabeth Castro. It's published by PeachPit Press as part of their "Visual Quickstart Guide" series, ISBN 0-201-35358-X. It blows both "Dummies" and ORA "Nutshell" formats away. The graphics wouldn't be too difficult to do with screen caps and the GIMP. Check it out! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 16:28: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sand3.global.net.uk (sand3.global.net.uk [194.126.80.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F39114CE1 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:28:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from [194.126.67.89] (helo=ukonline.co.uk) by sand3.global.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #3) id 10TwH0-00037q-00; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 00:25:51 +0100 Message-ID: <3707F528.A32C8914@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 00:26:32 +0100 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Getting more people to use FreeBSD References: <21263.923167512@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ah OK, thanks for the explanation. BTW, is this a one man exercise or are we talking about a numerous coders working *together* ? Chris R. "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > If this is a matter of paying someone, why hasn't it been done? > > It isn't a matter of paying someone. It's a matter of finding someone > with both the skill and time (paid or otherwise) to do it. So far, > most people only seem to *think* they have the skill to do it and thus > we make no progress. :) > > - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 16:45:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.digital-web.net (sonic.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA43152BE for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by sonic.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05614; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:39:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@sonic.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu Cc: Joseph Scott , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jay WIllis Subject: Re: top uptime list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Jonathan Fosburgh wrote: > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up > 10000+ days ... This is exactly what I had hoped would not happen. It's not hard to mess with the data that is sent to record the uptime. I'd like to see that person removed. > > > Jonathan Fosburgh Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 16:50:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.digital-web.net (sonic.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E052F14D21 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by sonic.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06465; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:44:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@sonic.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: Larry Berland Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jay WIllis Subject: Re: top uptime list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Larry Berland wrote: > There is a third FreeBSD machine holding the number one spot, but it must > be an error since it claims to have been up before the PC architecture or > FreeBSD even existed. It claims about 27 years continuous uptime. No doubt this is someone doing more of a dis-service than anything else. I'm hoping to contact someone there to have it removed. I did notice however that there were 14 fbsd machines signed up. > > On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Joseph Scott wrote: > > > > > I know this isn't really useful to site from a scientific point of > > view, but it's fun and kind of gives a nice broad picture. > > > > I was looking through freshmeat and came across a listing for > > this site : > > > > http://uptime.hexon.cx/ > > > > The idea behind it is to try and provide a listing for uptimes on > > different machines. Well according to the news section the freebsd client > > was now available as of today ( 3 Apr ). So I downloaded and signed up to > > of my freebsd servers. > > > > Check out the top 10 list, where the owner is "Joseph Scott" (that's me by > > the way :-) The two machines were ranked 3 and 4 when I last looked. > > > > Also check out the general stats page ( linked from the main page ). It > > gives some numbers based on the servers that are signed up. It appears > > that the two I signed up were the first two FreeBSD ones, so the average > > uptime is a little higher than the other ones :-) > > > > > > Joseph Scott > > joseph@randomnetworks.com > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 18:37:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zaphod.livecam.com (zaphod.livecam.com [206.83.162.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C4314C35 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:37:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thepinkpages@usa.net) Received: from unknown (adsl-216-100-231-13.dsl.pacbell.net [216.100.231.13]) by zaphod.livecam.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22219 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:35:35 -0700 (PDT) From: thepinkpages@usa.net (Jesus Monroy, Jr.) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Advocacy Message Board Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 01:35:40 GMT Reply-To: thepinkpages@usa.net Message-ID: <37081331.5937922@news.pacbell.net> X-Mailer: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's that old question: "FreeBSD vs. XXX". To get relief, post'em here: http://www.thepinkpages.com/bsdadvoc/wwwboard.html My commitment to this message board. 1. Posting done here will eventually be organized. (Even though it will be a PITA :-) 2. You can input into the organization. (Even if I don't like you :-) 3. I'll never post a message here. (Even though I'll be tempted :-) 4. I'll never delete a message related to this topic. (Even if it talks about me. :-) 5. If anyone wants to mirror these message board, I'll write the software for it. 6. As long as this is up, it will be free. (Caveot: Curretnly paid with advertisement.) Why post here? Because it won't reach your mailbox. What good is it? Not much right now, but to the reduce that very common thread "FreeBSD vs. XXX" get people to post here. How will that help? Eventually, I add sections and organize it so common themes will also be eliminated. I see this is running under a Porn site. Will I be spammed? Only if you're dumb enough to leave your email address. (email is an optional field). How do I know I can trust you? You don't unless you try. So the board is here: http://www.thepinkpages.com/bsdadvoc/wwwboard.html Have at it. ^ ^ < \___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 18:37:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zaphod.livecam.com (zaphod.livecam.com [206.83.162.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD0B14CC5 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:37:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thepinkpages@usa.net) Received: from unknown (adsl-216-100-231-13.dsl.pacbell.net [216.100.231.13]) by zaphod.livecam.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22223 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:35:49 -0700 (PDT) From: thepinkpages@usa.net (Jesus Monroy, Jr.) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Advocacy Message Board Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 01:35:54 GMT Reply-To: thepinkpages@usa.net Message-ID: <37081374.6005471@news.pacbell.net> X-Mailer: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's that old question: "FreeBSD vs. XXX". To get relief, post'em here: http://www.thepinkpages.com/bsdadvoc/wwwboard.html My commitment to this message board. 1. Posting done here will eventually be organized. (Even though it will be a PITA :-) 2. You can input into the organization. (Even if I don't like you :-) 3. I'll never post a message here. (Even though I'll be tempted :-) 4. I'll never delete a message related to this topic. (Even if it talks about me. :-) 5. If anyone wants to mirror these message board, I'll write the software for it. 6. As long as this is up, it will be free. (Caveot: Curretnly paid with advertisement.) Why post here? Because it won't reach your mailbox. What good is it? Not much right now, but to the reduce that very common thread "FreeBSD vs. XXX" get people to post here. How will that help? Eventually, I add sections and organize it so common themes will also be eliminated. I see this is running under a Porn site. Will I be spammed? Only if you're dumb enough to leave your email address. (email is an optional field). How do I know I can trust you? You don't unless you try. So the board is here: http://www.thepinkpages.com/bsdadvoc/wwwboard.html Have at it. ^ ^ < \___/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 18:38:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zaphod.livecam.com (zaphod.livecam.com [206.83.162.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46798152EF for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:38:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thepinkpages@usa.net) Received: from unknown (adsl-216-100-231-13.dsl.pacbell.net [216.100.231.13]) by zaphod.livecam.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22227 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:36:26 -0700 (PDT) From: thepinkpages@usa.net (Jesus Monroy, Jr.) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: FAQ: Why FreeBSD is better? (v1.0) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 01:36:31 GMT Reply-To: thepinkpages@usa.net Message-ID: <3708138c.6029147@news.pacbell.net> X-Mailer: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FAQ: Why FreeBSD is better? (v1.0) Last Edit: April 4, 1999 (1999.04.04) Author: Jesus Monroy, Jr. Email: freebsdadvocate@yahoo.com Version: 1.0 URL: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hub/8031/whyfreebsd.txt ================= Table of Contents ================= 0. Purpose. 1. Authority. 2. Opinions. 3. Web Resources. 4. About this Document. How this works? Why it is posted daily? How to filter this FAQ from your mailbox? Where to get the latest version? How you can add your opinion? How you can add information to this FAQ? ===================================================================== 0. Purpose. Daily the same question or questions are repeated in various newsgroups regarding FreeBSD. They follow along these themes: FreeBSD vs. *XXX* vs. *YYY*, which is better? FreeBSD vs. *zzz*, which is better? Why should I switch to FreeBSD? I've heard that FreeBSD is *abc*, it that true? If you have a question that follows along these lines, then this document is for you. This document is an effort to try to reduce the amount of noise produced from various flame-wars that start when these questions are asked. ===================================================================== 1. Authority. Who is the authority here? Certainly not me. I just write this FAQ. Anything I say should NOT be consider a fact. Concering FreeBSD, it is a volunteer effort so what you see and here is a consensus. Concering the newsgroups, they are considered cabal. ===================================================================== 2. Opinions. This is a list of opions stated by different people. They are listed un-edited. My opinions are my own. ===================================================================== 3. Web Resources. This Document http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hub/8031/whyfreebsd.txt Home Page for this FAQ. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hub/8031/index.html FreeBSD HOME PAGE http://www.freebsd.org When confused start here. FreeBSD Handbook http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/index.html This handbook covers the installation and day to day use of FreeBSD Release 3.1. This manual is a work in progress and is the work of many individuals. Many sections do not yet exist and some of those that do exist need to be updated. The latest version of this document is always available from the FreeBSD World Wide Web server. It may also be downloaded in plain text, postscript or HTML with HTTP or gzip'd from the FreeBSD FTP server or one of the numerous mirror sites. Frequently Asked Questions for FreeBSD 2.X http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/ This is the FAQ for FreeBSD systems version 2.X All entries are assumed to be relevant to FreeBSD 2.0.5 and later, unless otherwise noted. It may also be downloaded in plain text, postscript, PDF or HTML with HTTP or gzip'd from the FreeBSD FTP server. You may also want to Search the FAQ. FreeBSD Advocacy Message Board http://www.thepinkpages.com/bsdadvoc/wwwboard.html A message board for FreeBSD Taggers. Server OS Technical Comparison http://www.honeycomb.net/os/ A page someone posted. It has some nice comparision charts. Definitely, worth a look. ===================================================================== 4. About this Document. How this works? Currently, I edit this document by hand; I post this by hand. The links are added by hand. However, in the future I will check all the links before I post this document. This will be done as an automated method. Why it is posted daily? This is posted daily, because the question is asked daily. Once people get used to the idea, a real resource should be available. How to filter this FAQ from your mailbox? I don't know how to do this, but as soon as someone has a filter please email it to me. I will add it to the website and links here. If you are writing a filter, please note, I will not change the the first part of the subject line. A PERL match might look like this: $_ =~ /FAQ: Why FreeBSD is better/; Where to get the latest version? This Document http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hub/8031/whyfreebsd.txt Home Page for this FAQ. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hub/8031/index.html How you can add your opinion? Email me your opinion to: 'freebsdadvocate@yahoo.com' Mark the subject line: 'Section: 2 Opinions.' Please make sure you have a Subject line for your message at the top of the body. Please date and sign. How you can add information to this FAQ? Email to: 'freebsdadvocate@yahoo.com' Mark the subject line: 'Add this Information to FAQ' Please make sure you have a Subject line for your message at the top of the body. Please date and sign. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 19:22:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D28814D94; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA00761; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:50:50 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA06622; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:50:47 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990405115047.Q2142@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:50:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Darren Pilgrim , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Bill Fumerola , Donald Wilde , FreeBSD Documenters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> <19990404005224.CUBP5707006.mta2-rme@wocker> <3706CA33.986B5C15@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <3706CA33.986B5C15@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 06:10:59PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm copying FreeBSD-doc on this. We should have done this long ago: this has less to do with advocacy than it does with documentation. On Saturday, 3 April 1999 at 18:10:59 -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: >> Darren, do not waver. Your stuff is needed. I'll help you any way I can. >> Whether you choose to go the handbook or whatever, IGP still needed. The >> best witness to that fact is the number of request we get on undernet >> #freebsd for help with installs. > > Given all the off-list offers and on-list discussion it's pretty > obvious to me that the IGP is sorely needed. I don't think anybody denies that. The discussion has been about how you should implement it, not if you should. > I'm going to see to it that the IGP goes through to compile a > no-assumptions guide. I've had a very long think about the Handbook > and incorporating the IGP with it and come to the conclusion that > while parts of the IGP probably could fit very well with the > Handbook, rewriting the Handbook is just not what I want to do. I find this sad. You'd get a lot more help and cooperation if you'd do it in the existing framework. If you go it alone, well, you go it alone. On Saturday, 3 April 1999 at 20:43:41 -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Bill Fumerola wrote: > >> Blah, blah, yadda, yadda. Instead of being a hero for the people try >> updaing the existing documentation. > >> If you want to duplicate work, by all means, put it on your own website >> and scream on the mailing lists "_MY_ work is better, go to >> http://foo/FreeBSD-better-handbook/". >> >> Just don't expect anyone to 'cvs rm' the handbook (which isn't bad at all) >> and import your newest brainstorm. > >> That would be because you are trying to replace an established work with >> your pipedream. > >> This may sound like a quote from a jkh post, but: I haven't seen anything >> tangible, just an "I don't like this", and when you've moved on to other >> things, the handbook will still be here. > > > This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Perhaps you'd > like to read my other comments and elaboration about the IGP? I'm not > trying to replace the Handbook. Despite what Bill says, I think you should be. There are lots of different styles in the handbook; putting in the IGP would be an enrichment. As I said earlier, that doesn't mean that it should not be possible to extract the IGP as a standalone document. On Saturday, 3 April 1999 at 20:58:59 -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Donald Wilde wrote: >> >> Re: your >> >> One of the things you'll have to get used to is that anybody who stands >> up gets poked at, sometimes even by Project pillars like Jordan and >> Greg. Use it to stiffen your resolve, and don't let it dismay you. > > Aye, point well taken. But this is my first serious attempt, couldn't > yall have at least handed me a can of mace before throwing me to the > dogs? :-) Why should you get special treatment? :-) >> Stay the course, Darren. Talk to the -newbies and ignore the crabby, >> jaded ones who've forgotten what it's like not to have a clue about BSD. >> :-D > > I plan on soliciting for volunteers in -newbies. I just want to have > some kind of a webpage up for them to read before waving the Uncle > Sam posters. It seems fashionable at the moment to believe that newbies can do things that experienced people can't, simply because they're closer to the problem. I have yet to see a really successful document come out of this approach. I've found it a lot easier to let experienced people write the documentation and have newbies review it to death. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 20:23:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A02C914D1D for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:23:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D78F32EE1A; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 2395 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 20:21:53 -0800 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Whats a FreeBSD advocate to do? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ya know, I'm probobly going to be a dork, but I also wonder how many other people have the same problem as me. I really want to help. I don't think anyone who has talked with me can den= y my love of FreeBSD (I even have have a FreeBSD (Daemon) tatoo that a lucky? fe= w have seen) But I just don't know what to do to help. Right now I am really = busy at work and taking classes, but I REALLY want to help. So, what to do? I have signed up to be an editor on Dmoz, but have not received a reply ye= t :< I also have a few articles planned that I hope to get going with some assistance and I think Don's list and web page are great, to help solicite = help but yet I am still unsure what else to do. So, I fiqure the best way for me to help right now is to make it known wha= t I believe I have or can offer to help, and hope that someone will guide me. So here goes, This offer void were prohibited, and milage may vary. To be = ONLY for FreeBSD advocacy, research and projects! 1) FreeAccts / Web space / FTP space at an ISP or on a small server. 2) Server hardware / parts - whole 3) Server colo/connectivity possible with some convincing at work. 4) Low volume colo. (dfferent source)=20 5) Research time. Deep Search Engine searches. 6) Donations to causes/events/projects etc by BAFUG or by gathering donati= ons at BAFUG or elseware. 7) Time, whenever possible 8) mailing list hosting 9) Beta Testing 11) Basic web page creation 10) Anything else I haven't thought of.... Nicole |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 21:49:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cyberscript.net (unknown [209.53.28.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612F014C43 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swim@cyberscript.net) Received: from cyberscript.net (bsdram@ipa16.new-cumberland4.pa.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.130.16]) by cyberscript.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA53106; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:46:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swim@cyberscript.net) Message-ID: <3708405C.A137E5C6@cyberscript.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 00:47:25 -0400 From: Bill Rollins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicole Harrington , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Whats a FreeBSD advocate to do? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Another simple way to help would be to donate your old freebsd cds to the local library. you get a tax deduction for cds that you probably never going to use again, I just donated my 2.2.8 cds to the library. bill Nicole Harrington wrote: > Ya know, I'm probobly going to be a dork, but I also wonder how many other > people have the same problem as me. > > I really want to help. I don't think anyone who has talked with me can deny my > love of FreeBSD (I even have have a FreeBSD (Daemon) tatoo that a lucky? few > have seen) But I just don't know what to do to help. Right now I am really busy > at work and taking classes, but I REALLY want to help. So, what to do? > > I have signed up to be an editor on Dmoz, but have not received a reply yet :< > I also have a few articles planned that I hope to get going with some > assistance and I think Don's list and web page are great, to help solicite help > but yet I am still unsure what else to do. > So, I fiqure the best way for me to help right now is to make it known what I > believe I have or can offer to help, and hope that someone will guide me. > > So here goes, This offer void were prohibited, and milage may vary. To be ONLY > for FreeBSD advocacy, research and projects! > > 1) FreeAccts / Web space / FTP space at an ISP or on a small server. > 2) Server hardware / parts - whole > 3) Server colo/connectivity possible with some convincing at work. > 4) Low volume colo. (dfferent source) > 5) Research time. Deep Search Engine searches. > 6) Donations to causes/events/projects etc by BAFUG or by gathering donations > at BAFUG or elseware. > 7) Time, whenever possible > 8) mailing list hosting > 9) Beta Testing > 11) Basic web page creation > 10) Anything else I haven't thought of.... > > Nicole > > |\ __ /| (`\ > | o_o |__ ) ) > // \\ > nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ > webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org > -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- > > - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - > - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - > > - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - > - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - > ---------------------------------------------------------- > SYSADMIN(1) > Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must be > supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function > properly, > cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a life. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 22:21:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E6014F9A for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homer.softweyr.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA01333; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:14:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370838B3.39BACB2@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:14:43 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eagle Cc: Darren Pilgrim , Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eagle wrote: > > On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > > > Maybe this is a rant and maybe it's the result of not knowing all that > > I should. But this *is* what I see and this *is* what I believe. > > Doesn't matter how good the idea is, somebody will always have negative > comments, you can decide how you want to shut up the detractors, by > writing the documentation and doing a good job of it, or walking away. Er, the "Greg Lehey" way versus the "Brett Glass" way? > I personnally hope you decide to go forward with it, good documentation > goes a long way in getting people to use and enjoy freebsd and that is the > whole point of advocacy is it not? Yup, the exact point. I think Greg and Bill were, in their own way, asking you to consider if your work would be better done as an update to the existing documentation framework. If this really doesn't make sense, do it in whatever way it does make sense. Personally, I like the idea of a "FreeBSD for Dummies" book very much, especially if it appears on the shelves of the local bookstore with a FreeBSD CD-ROM inside it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 22:49:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456C314F9A for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:49:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 318E62EE1A; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 4965 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3708405C.A137E5C6@cyberscript.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:47:56 -0800 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: BAFUG chat , Bill Rollins Subject: Re: Whats a FreeBSD advocate to do? Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Bill Rollins wrote: > Another simple way to help would be to donate your old freebsd cds to the > local > library. you get a tax deduction for cds that you probably never going t= o > use > again, I just donated my 2.2.8 cds to the library. >=20 > bill >=20 ( Cross posted to BAFUG chat ) Hmmm Now that could be an interesting project. We, With great thanks and gratit= ude to Jordan and CDrom.com have a lot more 3.0 CD's than we could ever sell in= a reasonable time. (we would be on 5.0 by then) However I belive I would rather give 2.8 CD's as they are a bit more "stab= le" and forgiving for new users. 3.0 Cd's have the possibility to turn a new user off. (just my 2cs) Jordan/CDrom If you could get me some 2.8 CD's I will compile a list of schools and Library's (statewide or more) and we could make it a joint dona= tion. If you don't have any 2.8 CD's We could do it with the 3.0's but I would rather not. I'm sure we at BAFUG can organise an event for Envelope labeling and such = to make a mass mailing and donate as much postage as possible and solicit donations for what we can't do. Now a great companion for this would be if someone has or wanted to create= a small 10-20 Page instalation and setup guide that we can photocopy and put = in along with it..... Anyone out there in BAFUG land handy with Database to label creation on FreeBSD? Nicole >=20 > Nicole Harrington wrote: >=20 >> Ya know, I'm probobly going to be a dork, but I also wonder how many ot= her >> people have the same problem as me. >> >> I really want to help. I don't think anyone who has talked with me can = deny >> my >> love of FreeBSD (I even have have a FreeBSD (Daemon) tatoo that a lucky?= few >> have seen) But I just don't know what to do to help. Right now I am real= ly >> busy >> at work and taking classes, but I REALLY want to help. So, what to do? >> >> I have signed up to be an editor on Dmoz, but have not received a reply= yet >> :< >> I also have a few articles planned that I hope to get going with some >> assistance and I think Don's list and web page are great, to help solici= te >> help >> but yet I am still unsure what else to do. >> So, I fiqure the best way for me to help right now is to make it known = what >> I >> believe I have or can offer to help, and hope that someone will guide me= . >> >> So here goes, This offer void were prohibited, and milage may vary. To = be >> ONLY >> for FreeBSD advocacy, research and projects! >> >> 1) FreeAccts / Web space / FTP space at an ISP or on a small server. >> 2) Server hardware / parts - whole >> 3) Server colo/connectivity possible with some convincing at work. >> 4) Low volume colo. (dfferent source) >> 5) Research time. Deep Search Engine searches. >> 6) Donations to causes/events/projects etc by BAFUG or by gathering >> donations >> at BAFUG or elseware. >> 7) Time, whenever possible >> 8) mailing list hosting >> 9) Beta Testing >> 11) Basic web page creation >> 10) Anything else I haven't thought of.... >> >> Nicole >> >> |\ __ /| (`\ >> | o_o |__ ) ) >> // \\ >> nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ >> webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org >> -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- >> >> - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - >> - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - >> >> - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - >> - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> SYSADMIN(1) >> Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, m= ust >> be >> supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function >> properly, >> cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a >> life. >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 4 23:50:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7561614FAD for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:50:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990405064948.EIRF5752963.mta2-rme@wocker>; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:49:48 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nicole Harrington Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:48:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Whats a FreeBSD advocate to do? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-reply-to: References: <3708405C.A137E5C6@cyberscript.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990405064948.EIRF5752963.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 4 Apr 99, at 22:47, Nicole Harrington wrote: > Jordan/CDrom If you could get me some 2.8 CD's I will compile a list of > schools and Library's (statewide or more) and we could make it a joint > donation. > If you don't have any 2.8 CD's We could do it with the 3.0's but I would > rather not. Before they get donated away, can I get some sent to NZ please? We're planning an install-a-thon in about two months and such items would go a long way to making it easier. Not to mention the give-aways would entice people to attend. cheers. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 3: 2:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5889914F2C for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 03:02:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26221; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 03:00:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nicole Harrington Cc: BAFUG chat , Bill Rollins , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Whats a FreeBSD advocate to do? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:47:56 -0800." Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 03:00:00 -0700 Message-ID: <26219.923306400@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think 2.2.8 CDs are a vanishing stock item, don't count on those. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 8:12:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7309E153D9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:12:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA027042934; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:35:34 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:35:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <3706EDFD.6010D9B1@uswest.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Perhaps you'd > like to read my other comments and elaboration about the IGP? I'm not > trying to replace the Handbook. All of your comments have said 'the handbook is inadequete, let's make something new.' No offense to people who have FreeBSD help sites, but if I have a question I go straight to the FAQ/Handbook, and usually nothing else. It's silly to spread ourselves so thin across several documents. It's not like the handbook can't have sub-sections A. Installing FreeBSD i. For beginners ii. For people with experience iii. For experts The handbook is only as bad as people [don't] make it, and I don't see a problem with the current one. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 8:23:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC4D153D9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:23:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA030703634; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:47:14 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:47:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <19990403223512.A22484@lunatic.oneinsane.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Ron 'The InSaNe One' Rosson wrote: > This all sounds like making a book called FreBSD for Dummies. Sorry > I couldn't resist. Don't laugh, one day you might see it. :> - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 8:31:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4CD615477 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA032684100; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:55:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:55:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Donald Wilde Cc: Mark Ovens , Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy In-Reply-To: <37077E4B.ACAB0229@thuntek.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > Yes, I know, Bill. I'm not implying in any way that you _can_ fix this > in the simplest way. The only way I can see is to actually drive "make" > from the /stand/sysinstall, including the CD change blurb, and I'm not > sure that's a good idea at all. Well, that would be making some assumptions about the state of the users system at the time. It would have to be done _very_ late in the install, and then it might work. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 8:34:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A2915066 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA034464304; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:58:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:58:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <37078B4A.FDEE5765@thuntek.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > _Nobody_ here is saying that the Handbook should _not_ be updated and > expanded, Bill. The Handbook is the definitive meta-resource (above the > source code and man pages), and I would bet that now that the DocBook > transistion is happening, Nik and the rest of the guys who've been doing > it will get on to their _real_ goal, which is doing the updates of which > you speak. Amen. > My point was that the handbook doesn't do any good while your computer's > in pieces. Darren's point is that the Handbook -- and Greg's book -- > scare newbies who would be quite happy with FreeBSD once their system > was installed. It's that initial hump that we want to get them over, so > they can _get__to_ the Handbook, -questions, Dan's site, DN, The Open > Directory Project, and all the other resources we have out there. My point is that anything that is created can be hooked into the handbook. Look at the PPP Primer that's in the handbook. That could be printed by itself and be fully self-sufficent. That is what this installation guide should strive for. It should "look and feel" like the handbook, it should be in the handbook, and it should be able to be yanked from the handbook and printed and still make sense. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 10:23:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C677C14D08 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:23:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-011.thuntek.net [207.66.52.11]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id LAA13137; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3708F0B4.BCE212C5@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:19:48 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Advocacy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > Yes, I know, Bill. I'm not implying in any way that you _can_ fix this > > in the simplest way. The only way I can see is to actually drive "make" > > from the /stand/sysinstall, including the CD change blurb, and I'm not > > sure that's a good idea at all. > > Well, that would be making some assumptions about the state of the users > system at the time. It would have to be done _very_ late in the install, > and then it might work. > > - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - > - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - Exactly. I think the best approach for now would be to improve the explanations when it does bomb and also to insert dependency warnings into the pkg/DESCR files. One good example is teTeX. A lot of things need it, but it ain't there and -- as far as a newbie's concerned -- there's no sign of it. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 10:29:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 168D8150B0 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-011.thuntek.net [207.66.52.11]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id LAA13722; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3708F222.AA220AFF@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:25:54 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > _Nobody_ here is saying that the Handbook should _not_ be updated and > > expanded, Bill. The Handbook is the definitive meta-resource (above the > > source code and man pages), and I would bet that now that the DocBook > > transistion is happening, Nik and the rest of the guys who've been doing > > it will get on to their _real_ goal, which is doing the updates of which > > you speak. > > Amen. > > > My point was that the handbook doesn't do any good while your computer's > > in pieces. Darren's point is that the Handbook -- and Greg's book -- > > scare newbies who would be quite happy with FreeBSD once their system > > was installed. It's that initial hump that we want to get them over, so > > they can _get__to_ the Handbook, -questions, Dan's site, DN, The Open > > Directory Project, and all the other resources we have out there. > > My point is that anything that is created can be hooked into the handbook. > Look at the PPP Primer that's in the handbook. That could be printed by > itself and be fully self-sufficent. That is what this installation guide > should strive for. It should "look and feel" like the handbook, it should > be in the handbook, and it should be able to be yanked from the handbook > and printed and still make sense. > Now, _that_ I can agree with, with one exception. I think this is envisioned to be more of a book, with pix, screenshots, etc. The text can _also_ be turned into SGML by someone so inclined, but as Darren and others have pointed out SGML text formatting is Yet Another Thing To Learn. Perhaps our next project should be turning Jade into point-n-click? ;-D Real Soon Now... -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 11:14:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826FD14D5D for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:14:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28058; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:12:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd028030; Mon Apr 5 11:12:18 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21895; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:12:17 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904051812.LAA21895@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: US West To: unfurl@dub.net (Bill Swingle) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:12:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990403215445.B97472@dub.net> from "Bill Swingle" at Apr 3, 99 09:54:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was working on adding some more high-profile FreeBSD users to the list > I am compiling and was wondering if anyone knows what FreeBSD's role at > US West is. I remember US West being listed on the last print catalog as > as user but have not seen any other info. It's used for servers for their !nteract service. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 11:19: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A5C1515F for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11205; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd011164; Mon Apr 5 11:16:39 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22034; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:16:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904051816.LAA22034@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: top uptime list To: lethvian@maine.rr.com (Daniel J. Frost) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:16:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu, joseph@randomnetworks.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jwillis@pmz.com In-Reply-To: <37071A6E.7CFB8279@maine.rr.com> from "Daniel J. Frost" at Apr 3, 99 11:53:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up > > 10000+ days ... > > Thing is...the freebsd project didn't embark until early 1993. 10,000 days ago > is ~28 years or 1971, which precedes even the 2.xBSD development (1978). Maybe it's a multiprocessor box... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 11:39:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F74154E1 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09309; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:37:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd009286; Mon Apr 5 11:37:27 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22924; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:37:23 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904051837.LAA22924@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] To: billf@chc-chimes.com (Bill Fumerola) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:37:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dpilgrim@uswest.net, grog@lemis.com, dwilde1@thuntek.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Bill Fumerola" at Apr 5, 99 10:35:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No offense to people who have FreeBSD help sites, but if I have a question > I go straight to the FAQ/Handbook, and usually nothing else. It's silly to > spread ourselves so thin across several documents. You mean like Linux, with all those "how to" books with "Linux" on the cover, confusing new users into using Linux instead of FreeBSD? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 11:45:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C555154AC for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA100175788; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:09:48 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:09:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <199904051837.LAA22924@usr04.primenet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > No offense to people who have FreeBSD help sites, but if I have a question > > I go straight to the FAQ/Handbook, and usually nothing else. It's silly to > > spread ourselves so thin across several documents. > > You mean like Linux, with all those "how to" books with "Linux" on the > cover, confusing new users into using Linux instead of FreeBSD? I have no problem with FreeBSD books. I do have a problem with trying to start Yet Another Document that the project is expected to update. The handbook _is_ the place to put {an,the} installation guide. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 11:51:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32A8154B5 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-051.thuntek.net [207.66.52.51]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id MAA28854; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3709056C.723E64D@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:48:12 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <199904051837.LAA22924@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > No offense to people who have FreeBSD help sites, but if I have a question > > I go straight to the FAQ/Handbook, and usually nothing else. It's silly to > > spread ourselves so thin across several documents. > > You mean like Linux, with all those "how to" books with "Linux" on the > cover, confusing new users into using Linux instead of FreeBSD? My sentiments exactly. Some of our better contributors haven't been _outside_ of FreeBSD for a while. We need Dummies books, we need Complete FBSD, we need BSD Unleashed, we need... oh, yes, and we need the Handbook. The Handbook is for people who are already "in" FreeBSD, not for the outsiders peeking in. I see my role as expanding our user base, looking for the 1% who will be able and willing to contribute. It's like junk mail. You send out 10000 olive branches and you get one dove. Judging by the numbers Jonathan Bresler gave me for majordomo subscribers, we have a long way to go, and that means encouraging advocacy of all forms. I'd much rather see people writing down their thoughts than not, whether "inside" the FBSD Project or "outside". I'd prefer to give them a framework in which _all_ these efforts could be "inside", because then a good editor can take the best and stitch it together with some wowee! pictures and make something of it. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 12: 3:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (notabene.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 719CB1547F for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:03:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id MAA36756; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:01:31 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] Message-ID: <19990405120131.C24767@001101.zer0.org> References: <199904051837.LAA22924@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Bill Fumerola on Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 02:09:48PM -0400 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 02:09:48PM -0400, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > No offense to people who have FreeBSD help sites, but if I have a question > > > I go straight to the FAQ/Handbook, and usually nothing else. It's silly to > > > spread ourselves so thin across several documents. > > > > You mean like Linux, with all those "how to" books with "Linux" on the > > cover, confusing new users into using Linux instead of FreeBSD? > > I have no problem with FreeBSD books. I do have a problem with trying to > start Yet Another Document that the project is expected to update. The > handbook _is_ the place to put {an,the} installation guide. Exactly. Any and all of these proposed documents should be self-contained to some extent, but should definitely be enclosed within the Handbook. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 12:25:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B45F14DC8 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:25:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 06F742EE1B; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1371 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:23:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. Now what is most suprizing to me is at http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/polyteam-pics/ (warning LARGE) 3rd picture up from the bottom has a caption that reads "Glenn and Alex loa= ding FreeBSD on the Novell cluster." So, Novell is using FreeBSD for their Caching Solution....?? Nicole |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 12:43:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 30D6A14C8F for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 27895 invoked by alias); 5 Apr 1999 19:41:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 27851 invoked by uid 0); 5 Apr 1999 19:41:07 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 19:41:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3709119B.D697D91C@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:40:11 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Sat, 3 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > > This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Perhaps you'd > > like to read my other comments and elaboration about the IGP? I'm not > > trying to replace the Handbook. > > All of your comments have said 'the handbook is inadequete, let's make > something new.' I didn't say it was inadequate period, I said it was inadequate for people new to unix. > No offense to people who have FreeBSD help sites, but if I have a question > I go straight to the FAQ/Handbook, and usually nothing else. It's silly to > spread ourselves so thin across several documents. It's not like the > handbook can't have sub-sections > > A. Installing FreeBSD > i. For beginners > ii. For people with experience > iii. For experts Just where do you suppose these extra subsections might come from? I'm not going to prevent Nik (or others) from incorporating my work if he wants to do so. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 12:47:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB6415152 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA121931379; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:42:59 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:42:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Greg Lehey , Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] In-Reply-To: <3709119B.D697D91C@uswest.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > A. Installing FreeBSD > > i. For beginners > > ii. For people with experience > > iii. For experts > > Just where do you suppose these extra subsections might come from? > I'm not going to prevent Nik (or others) from incorporating my work if > he wants to do so. These subsections would be the work that you are proposing, as opposed to some other document. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 12:48:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 930A814CF9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:48:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 3330 invoked by alias); 5 Apr 1999 19:46:56 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 3288 invoked by uid 0); 5 Apr 1999 19:46:54 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 19:46:54 -0000 Message-ID: <370912F9.98997EB5@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:46:01 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: US West References: <199904051812.LAA21895@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I was working on adding some more high-profile FreeBSD users to the list > > I am compiling and was wondering if anyone knows what FreeBSD's role at > > US West is. I remember US West being listed on the last print catalog as > > as user but have not seen any other info. > > It's used for servers for their !nteract service. Their mail and news servers as well. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 13: 4:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E4014C8F for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:04:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-051.thuntek.net [207.66.52.51]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA14019; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:02:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37091695.599D8D10@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:01:25 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicole Harrington Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nicole Harrington wrote: > > I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at > http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) > They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. > We should definitely make friends with them, since they're so nice. The name Rob Elder seems to ring a quiet bell from somewhere, and Paul Vixie I have also heard of before. > Now what is most suprizing to me is at > http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/polyteam-pics/ (warning LARGE) > 3rd picture up from the bottom has a caption that reads "Glenn and Alex loading > FreeBSD on the Novell cluster." > > So, Novell is using FreeBSD for their Caching Solution....?? > I think they meant that they were loading the "polygraph" program, I.E. the stress-test client, onto the cluster. _That's_ what is hosted on FreeBSD. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 13:10:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B63821512F for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:10:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 24922 invoked by alias); 5 Apr 1999 20:08:44 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org@fixme Received: (qmail 24773 invoked by uid 0); 5 Apr 1999 20:08:36 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 20:08:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3709180D.A8794E5A@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:07:41 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Bill Fumerola , Donald Wilde , FreeBSD Documenters , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] References: <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> <19990404005224.CUBP5707006.mta2-rme@wocker> <3706CA33.986B5C15@uswest.net> <19990405115047.Q2142@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > I'm going to see to it that the IGP goes through to compile a > > no-assumptions guide. I've had a very long think about the Handbook > > and incorporating the IGP with it and come to the conclusion that > > while parts of the IGP probably could fit very well with the > > Handbook, rewriting the Handbook is just not what I want to do. > > I find this sad. You'd get a lot more help and cooperation if you'd > do it in the existing framework. If you go it alone, well, you go it > alone. The original object was to create a printed booklet that could be included with the CD set, so folks wouldn't have to flip flop between systems or screens to get through the install. I just thought that making something seperate from the Handbook, then incorporating it later would be easier than writing a large set of patches. Given that there is almost no part of the Handbook that doesn't make assumptions that would be a very large patchwork indeed. If it's the only way I can get help, then I'm willing to redirect my efforts to the Handbook. > Despite what Bill says, I think you should be. There are lots of > different styles in the handbook; putting in the IGP would be an > enrichment. As I said earlier, that doesn't mean that it should not > be possible to extract the IGP as a standalone document. Why not do it the other way around? > > I plan on soliciting for volunteers in -newbies. I just want to have > > some kind of a webpage up for them to read before waving the Uncle > > Sam posters. > > It seems fashionable at the moment to believe that newbies can do > things that experienced people can't, simply because they're closer to > the problem. I have yet to see a really successful document come out > of this approach. I've found it a lot easier to let experienced > people write the documentation and have newbies review it to death. The volunteers I was referring to are folks to do just that. I know I'm going to need experienced folks. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 13:37:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51CD7154DC for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:37:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 19255 invoked by alias); 5 Apr 1999 20:35:09 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 19242 invoked by uid 0); 5 Apr 1999 20:35:09 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 20:35:09 -0000 Message-ID: <37091E45.A374BC68@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:34:14 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [crossed because there are now two cascades going] Don't reply to this message, start a new thread and keep my address out of it. I've heard the arguements, I know who's cheering me on, who thinks I'd wasting my time if I don't work with the existing framework, and who thinks my ambitions are a full of it. Now I'm going to disappear for the rest of the week so that I can devote most of my time to organizing this potential project. If someone has something new to add to the cascade, instead of reiterating previous messages, please e-mail me directly. Anyone offering help, either internal or external to the FDP, please e-mail me directly. If you don't like what I just said, I'm not listening. :-) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 13:41:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1196F154F5 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01144; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:39:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id PAA24234; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:38:52 -0500 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id PAA11647; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:38:52 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:38:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199904052038.PAA11647@free.pcs> To: nicole@nmhtech.com, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-advocacy In-Reply-To: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: > > > I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at >http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) > They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. > > Now what is most suprizing to me is at >http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/polyteam-pics/ (warning LARGE) >3rd picture up from the bottom has a caption that reads "Glenn and Alex loading >FreeBSD on the Novell cluster." Hah. Yes, both CAIDA and NLANR are using FreeBSD extensively, it's their platform of choice for developing polygraph (the web proxy benchmark). You might know them better as developers of the Squid proxy. The bakeoff used approximately 80 machines as the "test harness" for various vendor's proxies, and all 80 machines were running FreeBSD. > So, Novell is using FreeBSD for their Caching Solution....?? No - "Novell powered by Dell" is a custom Novell system (which appears to beat everything else at this particular bakeoff). But then again, the solution is not a general purpose OS, (as far as I can tell), so that's to be expected. Peregrine, on the other hand, _is_ running on a 3.1 box (with my tweaks) and performs almost on a par with the Novell solution on the same hardware. Of course, we're running into a CPU bottleneck, and they're running into a network bottleneck, so it's not exactly a fair comparison. I was talking to the Polyteam at the conference, and what they would primarily like is for my changes to be folded into FBSD (which I should submit for review sometime soon). Also, they are still using 2.2.8 instead of 3.1, with one of the primary reasons being that the two-floppy boot disk is a pain in the butt. What was also somewhat humorous was that Glenn clipped the UserFriendly strip (the one that says "I'm not a devil, I'm a daemon!") and put it up on the notice board at the conference. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 13:41:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A122414C2F for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.6]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA32D8; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:39:47 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA72694; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:39:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:39:51 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Nicole Harrington Subject: RE: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-Apr-99 Nicole Harrington wrote: > > I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at > http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) > They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. > > Now what is most suprizing to me is at > http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/polyteam-pics/ (warning LARGE) > 3rd picture up from the bottom has a caption that reads "Glenn and Alex > loading FreeBSD on the Novell cluster." > > So, Novell is using FreeBSD for their Caching Solution....?? Wouldn't surprise me. In all my contacts with Novell engineers on the phone, in the live and in Duesseldorf, I can say they are very fond of Unix, and some like FreeBSD I guess =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 13:46:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9E914C2F for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.6]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA465A; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:44:33 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA73050; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:44:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37091695.599D8D10@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:44:37 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Donald Wilde Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Nicole Harrington Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-Apr-99 Donald Wilde wrote: > Nicole Harrington wrote: >> >> I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at >> http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) >> They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. >> > We should definitely make friends with them, since they're so nice. The > name Rob Elder seems to ring a quiet bell from somewhere, and Paul Vixie > I have also heard of before. Paul Vixie? Isn't that the DNS/BIND guy? I have some contacts running with Novell, do I need to ask around? --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 13:57:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845EC14E06 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:57:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-051.thuntek.net [207.66.52.51]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA26309; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <370922DB.6D41D365@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:53:47 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: nicole@nmhtech.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD References: <199904052038.PAA11647@free.pcs> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > In article you write: > > > > > > I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at > >http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) > > They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. > > > > Now what is most suprizing to me is at > >http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/polyteam-pics/ (warning LARGE) > >3rd picture up from the bottom has a caption that reads "Glenn and Alex loading > >FreeBSD on the Novell cluster." > > Hah. > > Yes, both CAIDA and NLANR are using FreeBSD extensively, it's their > platform of choice for developing polygraph (the web proxy benchmark). > You might know them better as developers of the Squid proxy. > > The bakeoff used approximately 80 machines as the "test harness" for > various vendor's proxies, and all 80 machines were running FreeBSD. > > > So, Novell is using FreeBSD for their Caching Solution....?? > > No - "Novell powered by Dell" is a custom Novell system (which appears > to beat everything else at this particular bakeoff). But then again, the > solution is not a general purpose OS, (as far as I can tell), so that's > to be expected. > > Peregrine, on the other hand, _is_ running on a 3.1 box (with my > tweaks) and performs almost on a par with the Novell solution on > the same hardware. Of course, we're running into a CPU bottleneck, > and they're running into a network bottleneck, so it's not exactly > a fair comparison. > > I was talking to the Polyteam at the conference, and what they would > primarily like is for my changes to be folded into FBSD (which I should > submit for review sometime soon). Jonathan, would you like to work with one of DaemonNews' article-writers? We could trade free promo for Peregrine for coverage of your opinions of FreeBSD... :-) Ditto the Polygraph people. You both are the kind of serious FreeBSD developers we (DN and WC) want to showcase in our efforts to get more people to develop for/on FreeBSD. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 14: 1:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00EBF154ED for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-051.thuntek.net [207.66.52.51]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA26720; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <370923CB.D2A8C5EA@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:57:47 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Nicole Harrington Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > On 05-Apr-99 Donald Wilde wrote: > > Nicole Harrington wrote: > >> > >> I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at > >> http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) > >> They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. > >> > > We should definitely make friends with them, since they're so nice. The > > name Rob Elder seems to ring a quiet bell from somewhere, and Paul Vixie > > I have also heard of before. > > Paul Vixie? Isn't that the DNS/BIND guy? > That's it, of course. (doh! ) > I have some contacts running with Novell, do I need to ask around? > See the previous posts, think we've cleared _that_ part of it up. The ones I think we should make contact are the Squid/Polygraph people. Sounds like they're an open source business-success story _we_ can point to. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 14: 3:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5481511B for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27316; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:01:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd027261; Mon Apr 5 14:01:30 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20668; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:01:29 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904052101.OAA20668@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD To: dwilde1@thuntek.net (Donald Wilde) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:01:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nicole@nmhtech.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <37091695.599D8D10@thuntek.net> from "Donald Wilde" at Apr 5, 99 02:01:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at > > http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) > > They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. > > We should definitely make friends with them, since they're so nice. The > name Rob Elder seems to ring a quiet bell from somewhere, and Paul Vixie > I have also heard of before. Paul Vixie is the author of cron, and maintains bind and other software for the ISC, including a concurrent resolver library that has yet to be pulled into FreeBSD (we really, really need to get the resolver code *out* of libc, and *into* "libresolv", BTW). Paul also runs one of the top level nameservers for the Internet, and manufactures a product called "The Interceptor" based on NetBSD, with modifications (e.g., the real fix for the FIN_WAIT_2 TCP/IP protocol bug). He also employs SEF (Sean Eric Fagin). > > Now what is most suprizing to me is at > > http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/polyteam-pics/ (warning LARGE) > > 3rd picture up from the bottom has a caption that reads "Glenn and > > Alex loading FreeBSD on the Novell cluster." > > > > So, Novell is using FreeBSD for their Caching Solution....?? > > > I think they meant that they were loading the "polygraph" program, I.E. > the stress-test client, onto the cluster. _That's_ what is hosted on > FreeBSD. Yes. It's a client cluster that they threw at each vendor's cache soloution. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 14:53:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69701554B; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:53:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1796A2EE1A; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 2404 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37091E45.A374BC68@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:51:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project- testing Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, whoever comes up with what, feel free to share your Alpha/beta with = Josef Grosch and my self. We can give it to people when they are trying to instal= l freeBSD on their systems at the Installathons and see what they have proble= ms with and report back. Nicole On 05-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Darren Pilgrim wrote: > [crossed because there are now two cascades going] >=20 > Don't reply to this message, start a new thread and keep my address > out of it. >=20 > I've heard the arguements, I know who's cheering me on, who thinks I'd > wasting my time if I don't work with the existing framework, and who > thinks my ambitions are a full of it. Now I'm going to disappear for > the rest of the week so that I can devote most of my time to > organizing this potential project. If someone has something new to > add to the cascade, instead of reiterating previous messages, please > e-mail me directly. Anyone offering help, either internal or external > to the FDP, please e-mail me directly. >=20 > If you don't like what I just said, I'm not listening. :-) >=20 > --=20 > dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the > gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world > ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a =20 > DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 15:11:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE4114CFE; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:11:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA10727; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:05:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:05:36 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Greg Lehey , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, FreeBSD Documenters , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Another Installation Guide [was: FreeBSD Advocacy] Message-ID: <19990405230536.A6083@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net>; <19990405164928.40818@welearn.com.au> <19990405071708.EHEJ5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990405165231.O2142@lemis.com> <37091BA6.E80526DD@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <37091BA6.E80526DD@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 01:23:02PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How do, [ I've cc'd this to -advocacy, where a lot of the discussion still seems to be happening ] On Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 01:23:02PM -0700, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Kinda. What got to me was the idea that if I wanted any support from > FreeBSD at all, I would have to abandon my original prime objective; > in which case it would be more productive for me to abandon the > project altogether and volunteer for the FDP. I've been trying to stay out of this, because I know that I'll only end up writing an incredibly lengthy e-mail that'll just spawn another round of long messages. But everyone else is having their two cents (or whatever the local denomination is), so I may as well have a go. First off, being listed as the Doc. Proj. Manager in the Handbook hasn't imbued me with some mystical sense of what's the right thing to do, and I'm willing to be argued out of most of what follows, if the arguments are good enough, obviously. Let me see if I can summarise; you've decided that the FreeBSD documentation set is sadly lacking in easy to follow installation instructions, and you want to fill this gap. Several other people have said (and I'm paraphrasing) "You can't do this unless you do it in the Handbook, we won't help you unless you put it in the Handbook, it won't be anything to do with FreeBSD unless it goes in the Handbook." You think this is a bad idea, and have almost decided to go off and code for Microsoft (or something like that). Possibly a touch over the top, but that's pretty much what it's coming across as. :-) Right. First things first. Thanks for volunteering to write documentation. *Any* documentation. Documentation is massively underrated by many people, and we need it, the more the better. Secondly, the Handbook and the FAQ are not the be-all and end-all of online FreeBSD documentation. The FreeBSD diary demonstrates this point well, as does the work over at vmunix.com, as do the various other tutorials that are linked to on the website (and some that, doubtless, are not linked to from the website). There's definitely room for material that does not fit within the framework of the FAQ and the Handbook. It's entirely possible that this installation guide falls into that category. If you do decide that this should be a standalone work, don't think that you won't get any support from this (and other) lists. There's no rule that says "If it's not on www.freebsd.org then we don't want to know". So, if you want to work on this in your own space, and with your own ideas that's great. Solicit help in here (and on other, appropriate, lists). Post URLs to work in progress, invite comments, and all the other stuff you'll need to do to get a polished piece of work. And if anyone complains about it not being a part of the Handbook, point 'em my way :-) Having said all that, you might want to reconsider. Or at least consider a little bit longer. Here are some of the attractions that making this part of the Handbook can bring you; * It's part of the main online resource for FreeBSD. Not the only resource, but certainly the main one. As such, the Handbook needs good documentation, and good documentation needs an audience. The two would fit well together. * If you make it a part of the Handbook, it will automatically be mirrored over umpteen different web servers all round the world. * As part of the Handbook, it will go on to all the FreeBSD CDs produced by Walnut Creek. * As part of the Handbook, it will be translated in to different languages by the FreeBSD translation teams -- Spanish, Japanese, French, German, to name but a few. * You get commit access to the FreeBSD tree[1] * You get to take advantage of the technology I've been integrating for the past few months, allowing your carefully chosen words of wisdom to be distributed as HTML, Postscript, PDF, RTF, DOC, . . . * You get the send-pr system for people to submit changes to it to you. * When you decide to take a break for a bit, other people can keep maintaining it. There's probably more, but they're the one's I can think of at this time of night. Of course, the bottom line is that it's your decision. I'd prefer it if you worked within the framework of the Handbook (if nothing else, it means one more person who knows how the Handbook works, and can commit other people's changes, so spreading the workload around a bit more). But no one here can force you to. N [1] Well, not immediately. Normally, it works something like this. You send me (or someone else) some patches to the Handbook. We apply them. They apply cleanly. We do this again. And again. And again. Pretty soon I've got bored of applying all these patches myself when they work first time, and I pester Jordan or one of of the others to give you a login on freefall and commit rights. -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 15:20:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id F2DDD15583; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:20:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: jlemon@americantv.com Cc: nicole@nmhtech.com, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199904052038.PAA11647@free.pcs> (message from Jonathan Lemon on Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:38:52 -0500 (CDT)) Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD Message-Id: <19990405222038.F2DDD15583@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I was talking to the Polyteam at the conference, and what they would > primarily like is for my changes to be folded into FBSD (which I should > submit for review sometime soon). Also, they are still using 2.2.8 > instead of 3.1, with one of the primary reasons being that the two-floppy > boot disk is a pain in the butt. appendix K of the report contains the configuration changes and one code change that they (the polyteam) made to their FreeBSD machines. interesting reading. kernel config: options "MAXDSIZ=(512*1024*1024)" options "DFLDSIZ=(128*1024*1024)" options "NMBCLUSTERS=40960" !! options TCP_ACK_HACK /sys/conf/param.c #define MAXFILES (16384) int maxfilesperproc = 12288 /sys/netinet/tcp_timer.h #define TCPTC_MSL (3*PR_SLOWHZ) /sys/kern/uipc_socket.c: (faked diff) if (resid >= MINCLSIZE) { MCLGET(m, M_WAIT); if ((m->m_flags & M_EXT) == 0) goto nopages; mlen = MCLBYTES; len = min(min(mlen, resid), space); } else { + atomic = 1; nopages: and there is more, take a look at http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 15:24:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0227214DC8; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:24:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA62310; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:20:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nik Clayton Cc: Darren Pilgrim , Greg Lehey , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, FreeBSD Documenters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another Installation Guide [was: FreeBSD Advocacy] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:05:36 BST." <19990405230536.A6083@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:20:44 -0700 Message-ID: <62308.923350844@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Having said all that, you might want to reconsider. Or at least consider > a little bit longer. Here are some of the attractions that making this > part of the Handbook can bring you; > > Let me just add one more, if I might, and hope that it doesn't make things even more difficult rather than less so: Walnut Creek CDROM would also like to hire someone, either remotely or on-site, to start seriously working to improve the handbook. We'd like to publish it, you see, but what's there just isn't publishable yet and it NEEDS to be published if we're to create a "feedback loop" where some number of people are actually getting revenue from it and thus compelled to actively improve the thing. The Handbook hasn't really had much in the way of active content addition to it for some time and I think this is the only way forward for it. Apathy sure doesn't seem to be working. So, by stepping up to the plate with the handbook and doing a credible job in improving it for long enough to convince the skeptics (me) of your sincerity and skill, you also run the additional risk of being offered the task as a paying job, and how's that for incentive. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 15:27:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A6FFB14F56 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 5037 invoked by alias); 5 Apr 1999 22:25:27 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 4995 invoked by uid 0); 5 Apr 1999 22:25:25 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 1999 22:25:25 -0000 Message-ID: <3709381F.99547C6F@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:24:31 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: Greg Lehey , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, FreeBSD Documenters , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Another Installation Guide [was: FreeBSD Advocacy] References: <37053C70.A99BEB29@uswest.net>; <19990405164928.40818@welearn.com.au> <19990405071708.EHEJ5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990405165231.O2142@lemis.com> <37091BA6.E80526DD@uswest.net> <19990405230536.A6083@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > > How do, > > [ I've cc'd this to -advocacy, where a lot of the discussion still seems > to be happening ] > > On Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 01:23:02PM -0700, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > Kinda. What got to me was the idea that if I wanted any support from > > FreeBSD at all, I would have to abandon my original prime objective; > > in which case it would be more productive for me to abandon the > > project altogether and volunteer for the FDP. > > I've been trying to stay out of this, because I know that I'll only end > up writing an incredibly lengthy e-mail that'll just spawn another > round of long messages. But everyone else is having their two cents > (or whatever the local denomination is), so I may as well have a go. Lengthy? Why didn't anyone tell me any of this sooner? Anyway, working on the Handbook isn't out of the question, just not the first part of the project as_I_see_it_. It wouldn't surprise me if at least some part of the project's product gets incorporated into the Handbook. If it does, it only makes sense that I be part of that process as well. If it's going to replace/supplement anything, it would be Jordan's booklet that comes with the CD set, that is, after all, my original intention. As for the "disappearing acting" people think I'm going to pull (partly due to my e-mail about not replying to messages anymore), I'm going to return, I just want to isolate myself long enough to think straight, get my ideas on paper, then possibly revise them per the suggestions of others. But I can't do that at all if I'm continuing the cascades. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 16: 6:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17769153A8; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:06:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01770; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:04:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id SAA13827; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:04:21 -0500 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id SAA11827; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:04:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:04:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199904052304.SAA11827@free.pcs> To: jmb@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-advocacy In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: >> >> I was talking to the Polyteam at the conference, and what they would >> primarily like is for my changes to be folded into FBSD (which I should >> submit for review sometime soon). Also, they are still using 2.2.8 >> instead of 3.1, with one of the primary reasons being that the two-floppy >> boot disk is a pain in the butt. > > appendix K of the report contains the configuration changes >and one code change that they (the polyteam) made to their FreeBSD >machines. interesting reading. > >kernel config: >options "MAXDSIZ=(512*1024*1024)" >options "DFLDSIZ=(128*1024*1024)" Yes, these aren't needed on 3.1, as they've already been rolled into that distribution. >options "NMBCLUSTERS=40960" !! Heh. I had an equivalent sized area, and still ran out of space sometimes, (primarily because we fell behind in processing). >options TCP_ACK_HACK In 3.1, it is the sysctl knob "net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack". >/sys/netinet/tcp_timer.h >#define TCPTC_MSL (3*PR_SLOWHZ) This violation of spec was needed to prevent the test boxes from freezing up under the workload; at an average of 300 connections/second per test pair, the the number of sockets in TIME_WAIT grows intolerably large. I have an alternate implementation that moves all sockets in TIME_WAIT state to a different list, so they don't impact normal processing. >/sys/kern/uipc_socket.c: (faked diff) > if (resid >= MINCLSIZE) { > MCLGET(m, M_WAIT); > if ((m->m_flags & M_EXT) == 0) > goto nopages; > mlen = MCLBYTES; > len = min(min(mlen, resid), space); > } else { >+ atomic = 1; >nopages: This one I'm not sure what to do with. That is, I know what it does, but am not sure what the correct fix is. Anyway, Polyteam doesn't mind having to re-apply the diffs above to the kernel, since they need to re-build the kernel with a lower MSL and tweaked values anyway. They have stated (as I understand it) that one of their current goals is to make available a pre-patched FreeBSD kernel from their website so that their various customers can just download and install a tuned kernel. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 17:25: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (bonjour.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD231547B for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:24:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-11-9.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.245]) by bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14159; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <370953C3.BE5BA907@confusion.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:22:27 -0400 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Daniel J. Frost" , jef53313@bayou.uh.edu, joseph@randomnetworks.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jwillis@pmz.com Subject: Re: top uptime list References: <199904051816.LAA22034@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG That would matter why? I didnt think it'd multiply uptime by the number of procs. Hmmm Terry Lambert wrote: > > > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up > > > 10000+ days ... > > > > Thing is...the freebsd project didn't embark until early 1993. 10,000 days ago > > is ~28 years or 1971, which precedes even the 2.xBSD development (1978). > > Maybe it's a multiprocessor box... > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 19:14: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id 9D5161513D; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:14:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: jlemon@americantv.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199904052304.SAA11827@free.pcs> (message from Jonathan Lemon on Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:04:21 -0500 (CDT)) Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD Message-Id: <19990406021404.9D5161513D@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > >/sys/netinet/tcp_timer.h > >#define TCPTC_MSL (3*PR_SLOWHZ) > > This violation of spec was needed to prevent the test boxes from freezing > up under the workload; at an average of 300 connections/second per test > pair, the the number of sockets in TIME_WAIT grows intolerably large. > I have an alternate implementation that moves all sockets in TIME_WAIT > state to a different list, so they don't impact normal processing. yes, it sure is....the idea of moving them ot their own list is interesting. an idea for inclusion in FreeBSD, i might hazard to say. > > > >/sys/kern/uipc_socket.c: (faked diff) > > if (resid >= MINCLSIZE) { > > MCLGET(m, M_WAIT); > > if ((m->m_flags & M_EXT) == 0) > > goto nopages; > > mlen = MCLBYTES; > > len = min(min(mlen, resid), space); > > } else { > >+ atomic = 1; > >nopages: > > This one I'm not sure what to do with. That is, I know what it does, > but am not sure what the correct fix is. now that is interesting....this is the same as "cvs diff -c -r 1.40 -r 1.41 uipc_socket.c" which verison of FreeBSd are they using? this was committed "1998/07/06 19:27:14 fenner". ahh...this was never committed to the 2.2x branch. hmmm...it was removed again with 1.42. revision 1.41 date: 1998/07/06 19:27:14; author: fenner; state: Exp; lines: +2 -1 Introduce (fairly hacky) workaround for odd TCP behavior with application writes of size (100,208]+N*MCLBYTES. The bug: sosend() hands each mbuf off to the protocol output routine as soon as it has copied it, in the hopes of increasing parallelism (see http://www.kohala.com/~rstevens/vanj.88jul20.txt ). This works well for TCP as long as the first mbuf handed off is at least the MSS. However, when doing small writes (between MHLEN and MINCLSIZE), the transaction is split into 2 small MBUF's and each is individually handed off to TCP. TCP assumes that the first small mbuf is the whole transaction, so sends a small packet. When the second small mbuf arrives, Nagle prevents TCP from sending it so it must wait for a (potentially delayed) ACK. This sends throughput down the toilet. The workaround: Set the "atomic" flag when we're doing small writes. The "atomic" flag has two meanings: 1. Copy all of the data into a chain of mbufs before handing off to the protocol. 2. Leave room for a datagram header in said mbuf chain. TCP wants the first but doesn't want the second. However, the second simply results in some memory wastage (but is why the workaround is a hack and not a fix). The real fix: The real fix for this problem is to introduce something like a "requested transfer size" variable in the socket->protocol interface. sosend() would then accumulate an mbuf chain until it exceeded the "requested transfer size". TCP could set it to the TCP MSS (note that the current interface causes strange TCP behaviors when the MSS > MCLBYTES; nobody notices because MCLBYTES > ethernet's MTU). revision 1.42 date: 1998/07/18 18:48:45; author: fenner; state: Exp; lines: +1 -2 Undo rev 1.41 until we get more details about why it makes some systems fail. hte other changess in thes par of the code vs stevens vol 2, are from the 1.3 commit. revision 1.3 date: 1994/05/29 07:48:17; author: davidg; state: Exp; lines: +3 -12 Changed mbuf allocation policy to get a cluster if size > MINCLSIZE. Makes a BIG difference in socket performance. > > Anyway, Polyteam doesn't mind having to re-apply the diffs above > to the kernel, since they need to re-build the kernel with a lower > MSL and tweaked values anyway. They have stated (as I understand it) > that one of their current goals is to make available a pre-patched > FreeBSD kernel from their website so that their various customers can > just download and install a tuned kernel. well...that should proovide staandard kernels. if people cant make their own following the directions, they might not be the right people to perform the testing. jmb ps. cvs logs are great!...i gotta get a license so i can get the CSRG cd from Kirk Mckusick with the SCCS logs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 19:30: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C32114DB9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:30:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from quark.feynman.com (IDENT:fpawlak@obica-1-43.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.88.43]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.1) id VAA09782 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:28:02 -0500 Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by quark.feynman.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA18094 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:27:27 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:27:26 -0500 From: Frank Pawlak To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD in the press Message-ID: <19990405212726.A17937@quark.feynman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is a good article in the currents Data communications magazine. www.data.com It concerns Open Source as a network operating system. Interesting stats. So, have a look. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 20:14:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nw171.netaddress.usa.net (nw171.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FF12155B9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:13:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 2456 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Apr 1999 03:11:43 -0000 Message-ID: <19990406031143.2455.qmail@nw171.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.71 by nw171 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.45) on Tue Apr 6 03:11:43 GMT 1999 Date: 5 Apr 99 20:11:43 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Are you sitting on the fence? X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.45) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Comments, please. = Please followup to: freebsdadvocacy@usa.net =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D that a version of Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser contains a "filte= r" that "relegates Blue Mountain's greeting cards to a junk mail folder for immediate discard, rather than receipt by the intended recipient. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2174820,00.html --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 20:17:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from aauu.aaweber.com (cs9343-148.austin.rr.com [24.93.43.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E9D14C37 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaweber@austin.rr.com) Received: (from aaweber@localhost) by aauu.aaweber.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA01400 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:15:36 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:15:35 -0500 From: Alan Weber To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press Message-ID: <19990405221535.A1142@austin.rr.com> References: <19990405212726.A17937@quark.feynman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990405212726.A17937@quark.feynman.com>; from Frank Pawlak on Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 09:27:26PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 09:27:26PM -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: --> There is a good article in the currents Data communications --> magazine. www.data.com It concerns Open Source as a network operating --> system. Interesting stats. So, have a look. --> Frank It is nice to see equal billing given to *BSD with Linux. Unfortunately, there seems to be some factual errors regarding licensing and file system sizes that come from assuming that *BSD is the same as Linux. I am not technically versed enough to be able to cite the correct statistics and elicidate the license differences clearly. -- When I was a kid I had to rub sticks together to multiply and divide numbers. A calculator was a job description. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 21:27: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D55F14ECE for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:27:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu) Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) Ident [ewayte] by pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id A38CE3534; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:21:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Wayte To: Jesus Monroy Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Are you sitting on the fence? In-Reply-To: <19990406031143.2455.qmail@nw171.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Next time you post, check the date on your story - 12/11/1998. This case has already been resolved in Blue Mountain's favor. As part of the deal, Microsoft was forced to remove the download of IE5 Beta 2 from its web pages. -Eric- On 5 Apr 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote: > Date: 5 Apr 99 20:11:43 PDT > From: Jesus Monroy > To: advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Are you sitting on the fence? > > Comments, please. > Please followup to: freebsdadvocacy@usa.net > > =============================================================== > that a version of Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser contains a "filter" > that "relegates Blue Mountain's greeting cards to a junk mail folder for > immediate discard, rather than receipt by the intended recipient. > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2174820,00.html > > > --- > I am not a bot. > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 5 23:11:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C745C15013 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:11:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.37]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19291; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370995ED.6F034BCC@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:04:45 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: nicole@nmhtech.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD References: <199904052038.PAA11647@free.pcs> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > In article you write: > > > > > > I found an interesting reference that I want to look deeper into but at > >http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/ ( A Caching Server bakeoff) > > They have a nice link at the bottom for FreeBSD. > > > > Now what is most suprizing to me is at > >http://bakeoff.ircache.net/bakeoff-01/polyteam-pics/ (warning LARGE) > >3rd picture up from the bottom has a caption that reads "Glenn and Alex loading > >FreeBSD on the Novell cluster." > > Hah. > > Yes, both CAIDA and NLANR are using FreeBSD extensively, it's their > platform of choice for developing polygraph (the web proxy benchmark). > You might know them better as developers of the Squid proxy. OK, how do we get a Daemon News article out of them? ;^) > The bakeoff used approximately 80 machines as the "test harness" for > various vendor's proxies, and all 80 machines were running FreeBSD. > Peregrine, on the other hand, _is_ running on a 3.1 box (with my > tweaks) and performs almost on a par with the Novell solution on > the same hardware. Of course, we're running into a CPU bottleneck, > and they're running into a network bottleneck, so it's not exactly > a fair comparison. And an article about this! Hint! Hint! ;^) > I was talking to the Polyteam at the conference, and what they would > primarily like is for my changes to be folded into FBSD (which I should > submit for review sometime soon). Also, they are still using 2.2.8 > instead of 3.1, with one of the primary reasons being that the two-floppy > boot disk is a pain in the butt. > > What was also somewhat humorous was that Glenn clipped the UserFriendly > strip (the one that says "I'm not a devil, I'm a daemon!") and put it > up on the notice board at the conference. Funny, I've seen a couple of those floating around work lately, too. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 0:20:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D51152C5 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.37]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA19386; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:18:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3709A66F.C97F91D3@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:15:12 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Weber Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press References: <19990405212726.A17937@quark.feynman.com> <19990405221535.A1142@austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alan Weber wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 09:27:26PM -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > --> There is a good article in the currents Data communications > --> magazine. www.data.com It concerns Open Source as a network operating > --> system. Interesting stats. So, have a look. > --> Frank > > It is nice to see equal billing given to *BSD with Linux. Unfortunately, there > seems to be some factual errors regarding licensing and file system sizes that > come from assuming that *BSD is the same as Linux. I am not technically versed > enough to be able to cite the correct statistics and elicidate the license > differences clearly. There were several other factual errors also, including support contracts. I'll try to make a detailed rebuttal tomorrow, and forward it to the author and the editors. Still, the tone was quite good; it's nice to see the "real" press coming around to my viewpoint. BTW, does anyone have a link to that FreeBSD cluster that was bantered about sometime last year? I'd like to refute their claim of no clustering in the BSD world as well. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 1:36:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from calvin.saturn-tech.com (calvin.saturn-tech.com [207.229.19.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B32A14CBE for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by calvin.saturn-tech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA20338; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:34:08 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: Wes Peters Cc: Alan Weber , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press In-Reply-To: <3709A66F.C97F91D3@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > There were several other factual errors also, including support contracts. Yes, there were QUITE a number of errors... > I'll try to make a detailed rebuttal tomorrow, and forward it to the > author and the editors. Still, the tone was quite good; it's nice to > see the "real" press coming around to my viewpoint. ... Yes, however, it was fairly good. > BTW, does anyone have a link to that FreeBSD cluster that was bantered > about sometime last year? I'd like to refute their claim of no clustering > in the BSD world as well. I think I saw something about clustering in the ports collection the other day, but I haven't had a chance yet to go look at it. I've read several things about clustering fairly recently, although I can't seem to dig anything about it up now... Anyone else? Later...... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 4:14:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB8D150FE for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-028.thuntek.net [207.66.52.28]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id FAA14331; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 05:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3709EBD7.79863B72@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 05:11:19 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Pawlak Cc: Alan Weber , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press References: <19990405212726.A17937@quark.feynman.com> <19990405221535.A1142@austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there an on-line link, Frank? -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 10:25:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC01B15214 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:25:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id CAA10081; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:22:34 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <370A399B.993BCE83@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 01:43:07 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Russell Cc: Wes Peters , Alan Weber , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Russell wrote: > > I think I saw something about clustering in the ports collection the other > day, but I haven't had a chance yet to go look at it. I've read several > things about clustering fairly recently, although I can't seem to dig > anything about it up now... Anyone else? Sarnoff? http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/admin/cesdis.seminars/010899.html They have a page, but I couldn't find it in a brief search. Perhaps Ron Minnich can tell you (he might not subscribe to advocacy, though). -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "nothing better than the ability to perform cunning linguistics" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 11:53:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD6014F27 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id UAA55294; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:51:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Doug Russell , Wes Peters , Alan Weber , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press References: <370A399B.993BCE83@newsguy.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 06 Apr 1999 20:51:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Daniel C. Sobral"'s message of "Wed, 07 Apr 1999 01:43:07 +0900" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Daniel C. Sobral" writes: > They have a page, but I couldn't find it in a brief search. Perhaps > Ron Minnich can tell you (he might not subscribe to advocacy, > though). Search the archives for "Ron G. Minnich". The URL (an FTP site IIRC) is in his signature. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 13:41:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E8E14D03 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:41:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14253; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:57:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd014216; Tue Apr 6 14:57:25 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA16964; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:38:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904062038.NAA16964@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: top uptime list To: stuyman@confusion.net (Laurence Berland) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:38:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, lethvian@maine.rr.com, jef53313@bayou.uh.edu, joseph@randomnetworks.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jwillis@pmz.com In-Reply-To: <370953C3.BE5BA907@confusion.net> from "Laurence Berland" at Apr 5, 99 08:22:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > It sure is nice to see that person whose FreeBSD box has been up > > > > 10000+ days ... > > > > > > Thing is...the freebsd project didn't embark until early 1993. > > > 10,000 days ago is ~28 years or 1971, which precedes even the > > > 2.xBSD development (1978). > > > > Maybe it's a multiprocessor box... > > That would matter why? I didnt think it'd multiply uptime by the > number of procs. > Hmmm A 16 processor box could be up 10,000 days in under two years... Less, if there were multiple ALU's, and the CPU's supported pipelining... Even less if you overclocked... Heck, the 64,000 processor box GoodYear built for Goddard could be up for 10,000 days in only 22 and 1/2 minutes... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 18: 5:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B016615355 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:05:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from quark.feynman.com (IDENT:fpawlak@mercury-2-69.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.87.197]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.1) id UAA16542; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:03:10 -0500 Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by quark.feynman.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA19143; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:02:32 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:02:32 -0500 From: Frank Pawlak To: Donald Wilde Cc: Frank Pawlak , Alan Weber , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press Message-ID: <19990406200232.A19102@quark.feynman.com> References: <19990405212726.A17937@quark.feynman.com> <19990405221535.A1142@austin.rr.com> <3709EBD7.79863B72@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3709EBD7.79863B72@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Tue, Apr 06, 1999 at 05:11:19AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 06, 1999 at 05:11:19AM -0600, Donald Wilde wrote: > > Is there an on-line link, Frank? > -- Try www.data.com Should get you there. > Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" > Wilde Media > 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 21:10:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7ED14E93; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:10:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-132.thuntek.net [207.66.52.132]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id WAA13340; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <370AD9F6.29FF54F0@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:07:18 -0600 From: Donald Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@thuntek.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-announce@freebsd.org Subject: Advocacy Web CGI: a community project Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've made more changes to my http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html page tree, adding a new section under CGI. All of you who know Perl and/or PostgreSQL or would like to, please take a look. There is a new project listed: the Web Entry system This is the beginnings of the web signup system for Advocacy. I'm posting it all in the hopes that I can get more people to join in and contribute. As more code gets written, it will be posted. It's not a major project, but it is non-trivial, so I hope it will be both interesting and fun, as well as having a low entry threshold. Since the comments will go to me and not be posted, newbies can contribute and ask questions without fear of embarrassment! Please spread the word around, the idea is to showcase open source development by getting it done as quickly and as completely as possible. Having said that, I'm headed to Concord in the early AM tomorrow to chat with Jordan and Bob Bruce and all the rest of the Bay Area crew. I've arranged for an e-mail bounce to don@freebsd.org, but, well, you know... ;-D >>> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS CROSS-POSTED ANNOUNCEMENT ON THE LISTS!!! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 22: 1:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533B11571B for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homer.softweyr.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA00650; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:42:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370A8DD4.8A96502F@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:42:28 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Doug Russell , Alan Weber , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press References: <370A399B.993BCE83@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > "Daniel C. Sobral" writes: > > They have a page, but I couldn't find it in a brief search. Perhaps > > Ron Minnich can tell you (he might not subscribe to advocacy, > > though). > > Search the archives for "Ron G. Minnich". The URL (an FTP site IIRC) > is in his signature. Thank you. The URL is: ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html I'll write that rebuttal when I get home tonight. We should try to talk Ron into a Daemon News article about this, too. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 6 23:32:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2748A1527D for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homer.softweyr.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA00405; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370AECB4.71D34B54@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:27:17 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Licia Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Licia wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > Licia wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > > > > We had originally discussed an entire web section for branded products, > > > > with click-through to their site(s), to cross-advertise the availability > > > > of FreeBSD branded products. We would offer this page as a target for > > > > their products sites as well. I imagine FreeBSD Mall will be very > > > > interested in carrying commercial products that are FreeBSD branded as > > > > well, if suitable financial arrangements can be agreed upon. > > > > > > > > > > I think that is a good idea as well. Not what I meant by banner, but still a > > > very good idea. Would there be any interest in a similar section for freeware > > > authors who support FreeBSD and apply the branding to their efforts? > > > > In our original discussion, the products were sorted by "Native FreeBSD" > > vs. "Emulated", rather than price tags. A native port of Gnome would get > > "higher" billing than a Linux version of DB2, as it should. ;^) > > > > So freeware authors would be able to get listed in the branded software area > on the web site? Yes!! > Would there be criterion on size/quality of a branded > project, or could someone write a clone of echo and get listed? :) Common sense, hopefully. I wouldn't expect to brand "echo", but perhaps a suite of utilities like psutils could be, if somebody wants to brand it. There is no reason why programs like XV and Ghostscript couldn't be, for instance. > > A relatively good example of how to do something like this is BeWare. Check > > out http://www.be.com and click on the BeWare link. We could offer the > > commercial firms additional incentives through FreeBSD Mall, giving them > > targeted exposure to interested buyers. > > > > (nods) an interesting site, and I do think we could learn a lot from it. > My main concern isn't the commercial developers though. As our numbers grow > and FreeBSD becomes better known, such support is nearly inevitable I think. I > worry more about keeping FreeBSD 'in the loop' as far as freeware support, and > enticing people to use FreeBSD as a native development platform, any thoughts > on how the branding effort could be used there? The purpose here is to get "application" vendors to put FreeBSD logos on their products and their web pages. Hopefully the web page entries will be linked to our web page, and the "box" logs will include a URL or something like that. The idea here is to advocate FreeBSD, after all. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 3:13:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61CF14D12 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 03:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id MAA67365; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:11:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: nicole@nmhtech.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD References: <199904052038.PAA11647@free.pcs> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Apr 1999 12:11:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: Jonathan Lemon's message of "Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:38:52 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Lemon writes: > No - "Novell powered by Dell" is a custom Novell system (which appears > to beat everything else at this particular bakeoff). But then again, the > solution is not a general purpose OS, (as far as I can tell), so that's > to be expected. I recently had the occasion to compare Novell BorderManager running on three quad-Xeon Dell servers to Squid running on one dual-CPU SGI Origin 200. The Dell boxen died three times a day under one third the load the SGI handled. BTW, I've had reliable reports that Novell's cache is mostly Squid with polish. I suspect any performance advantage (real or perceived) stems from tighter integration with the operating system. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 6: 7:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vtopus.cs.vt.edu (vtopus.cs.vt.edu [128.173.40.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48D8157BB for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:07:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhagan@vtopus.cs.vt.edu) Received: (from dhagan@localhost) by vtopus.cs.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA04071 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:05:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Hagan To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: POSIX compliance? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone know what areas of POSIX FreeBSD is not compliant with? This is apparently an important issue to some of the professors here at Va. Tech. Daniel -- Daniel Hagan Computer Systems Engineer dhagan@cs.vt.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 6:43:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D8214DA5 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:43:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08540; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:41:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id IAA09956; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:40:43 -0500 Message-ID: <19990407084043.42959@right.PCS> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:40:43 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: nicole@nmhtech.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD References: <199904052038.PAA11647@free.pcs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Apr 04, 1999 at 12:11:40PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Apr 04, 1999 at 12:11:40PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Jonathan Lemon writes: > > No - "Novell powered by Dell" is a custom Novell system (which appears > > to beat everything else at this particular bakeoff). But then again, the > > solution is not a general purpose OS, (as far as I can tell), so that's > > to be expected. > > I recently had the occasion to compare Novell BorderManager running on > three quad-Xeon Dell servers to Squid running on one dual-CPU SGI > Origin 200. The Dell boxen died three times a day under one third the > load the SGI handled. This isn't BorderManager, it's a brand new product that Novell just used the bakeoff to introduce. > BTW, I've had reliable reports that Novell's cache is mostly Squid > with polish. I suspect any performance advantage (real or perceived) > stems from tighter integration with the operating system. Interesting. I don't know one way or another, but their performance profiles definitely show that their cache is effectively integrated into the OS; they don't appear to suffer from as much overhead as the other solutions. As a side note, at the bakeoff, they managed to mis-configure their small box as half duplex (and not notice until the last day), but still got 2/3 the performance that we did. Rumor has it that they were only using 25% of the CPU, while we were pegged. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 8:31:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD02157F4 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:31:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.113]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA4B1E; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:29:40 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29190; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:29:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:29:42 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jonathan Lemon Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 07-Apr-99 Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > BTW, I've had reliable reports that Novell's cache is mostly Squid > with polish. I suspect any performance advantage (real or perceived) > stems from tighter integration with the operating system. Confirmation from my side, all my knowledge about Bordermanager which I got talking with Novell techs pointed to Squid. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 8:31:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4AD157DF; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.113]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA4B25; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:29:42 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29196; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:29:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:29:44 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Daniel Hagan Subject: RE: POSIX compliance? Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 07-Apr-99 Daniel Hagan wrote: > Does anyone know what areas of POSIX FreeBSD is not compliant with? This > is apparently an important issue to some of the professors here at Va. > Tech. I am busy categorising the POSIX compliance as well as the Single Unix Specification v2 for FreeBSD on source level basis. Thus far I have done some things on SSv2 already at http://home.wxs.nl/~asmodai under the Programmer's Documentation Project link. I also am a member of the Austin group which reviews the POSIX specs for their new version. I hope to do positive work for FreeBSD there (NetBSD, BSDI, and the Linux Standard Base are amongst the other attendees) and I urge other people with at least more longstanding POSIX/FreeBSD hacking to join as well just for the sake of compliancy and pre-information. [ cross-posted to hackers as well for a call to the die hard hackers ;) please do NOT reply to this message without trimming the cc: list please ] --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 11:34: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BEE9158C8 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:33:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10337; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:31:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:31:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Donald Wilde Cc: Jonathan Lemon , nicole@nmhtech.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very Interesting user of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <370922DB.6D41D365@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > Jonathan Lemon wrote: > Jonathan, would you like to work with one of DaemonNews' > article-writers? We could trade free promo for Peregrine for coverage > of your opinions of FreeBSD... :-) Ditto the Polygraph people. You > both are the kind of serious FreeBSD developers we (DN and WC) want to > showcase in our efforts to get more people to develop for/on FreeBSD. Speaking as Daemon News editor-in-chief for this month I fully agree w/ Don (sorry if this has been covered - I've been buried lately and am WAY behind in my email). Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 16:23:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D013B15914 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:23:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10177; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd010150; Wed Apr 7 17:41:26 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA25156; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:21:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904072321.QAA25156@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: POSIX compliance? To: dhagan@cs.vt.edu (Daniel Hagan) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:21:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Daniel Hagan" at Apr 7, 99 09:05:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does anyone know what areas of POSIX FreeBSD is not compliant with? This > is apparently an important issue to some of the professors here at Va. > Tech. Since POSIX is a registered trademark, and use of that trademark requires certification, there aren't any currently shipping free OS's that are technically capable of being called "POSIX compliant". Like the old "NT 3.0p3 on Compaq Proliant hardware" C2 ceritifcation, there is a certified version of Linux, but AFAIK, the ceritification has not been kept up to date on any modern versions. You may be able to find old copies of CDROMs or archives of that version, though. What you _probably_ want instead is to get a copy of the NIST/PCTS (National Institute of Standards / POSIX Conformance Test Suite) and run it yourself on a FreeBSD box. This will give you the results you would get from sending FreeBSD to a certification laboratory, without paging the testing and trademark usage licensing fees. Since it's also something that an CS department should already have a copy of anyway, it's probably lying around somewhere. If not, then you should download it from the NIST ftp site where it has been archived and made available for public download: http://www.itl.nist.gov/div897/ctg/posix_form.htm You might even find someone (with commit priviledges) willing to check in code changes to address any deviations you find. -- Terry "Yes, I _am_ better than the search engines" Lambert Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 20:29:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B06D15210 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:29:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id MAA24813; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:27:06 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <370BEF28.E094292D@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:50:00 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: POSIX compliance? References: <199904072321.QAA25156@usr01.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > -- Terry "Yes, I _am_ better than the search engines" Lambert Bookmarked. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "nothing better than the ability to perform cunning linguistics" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 22:36:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06B8215257 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:36:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24251; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:34:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:31:46 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org, Greg Lehey Subject: Data Communications Magazine article Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mr. Lee Bruno, Data Communications Magazine Re: your April 7, 1999 article "Open-Source Software: Power to the People" Mr. Bruno, I read the referenced article with great interest and care. I am pleased to see such even and fair coverage of Open Source software, and am particularly pleased to see your mention of BSD systems, often overlooked by your colleagues in the popular computing press. I would like to provide you with some additional information on the wealth of openly available software for BSD systems. Your article missed some relatively important functionality that your readers may need in order to make informed decisions about what BSD systems may do for them. Paid professional support is available for the FreeBSD operating system from FreeBSD Mall; details are available at http://www.freebsdmall.com/. Each of the Open Source BSD operating system groups also offers lists of consultants familiar with BSD systems; many of these can provide professional support on an ad hoc basis as well. All are supported through the usual mail and web resources as mentioned in your article. Clustering is most certainly in the cards for FreeBSD as well. Several projects are working on various forms of clustering, and have stable reliable systems based on clustering technology. Simple server load balancing, a weak form of clustering, is available from the Eddieware project at http:://www.eddieware.org/. The David Sarnoff Research Center has created a loosely coupled cluster of FreeBSD machines for parallel computational work; see ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html for more information about their parallel computing cluster. Both Linux and BSD systems support standard, open-source LDAP servers. Linux and FreeBSD also support PAM--Pluggable Authentication Modules--to enable user authentication via LDP servers. While interoperability with NDS and AD is not guaranteed, it is certainly a goal of the developers of the LDAP PAM modules. Linux does have a 2 GByte filesystem, ext2fs, but this limitation has never hampered BSD systems. The ufs filesystem in BSD has supported large filesystem sizes for many years. FreeBSD 3.1 has added softupdate support, which allows asynchronous updates of filesystem data without the dangers of the Linux ext2fs approach, and the Vinum Volume Manager, which allows administrators to add space from new disk drives to existing filesystems. These additions make FreeBSD by far the best open source system for supporting large disk systems. *** Need to quote maximum file and filesystem sizes here. *** *** Need a good reference for Vinum here. At a minimum, we can point him at http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html if OK with Greg Lehey. *** *** Should also have a reference for the online art gallery, since they use a huge amount of disk space. *** Comments, please? I'd like to send this tomorrow. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 22:45:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7EB153BC for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:45:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA18402; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:12:58 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA20630; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:12:57 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990408151256.L2142@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:12:56 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Data Communications Magazine article References: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 10:31:46PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 7 April 1999 at 22:31:46 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Mr. Lee Bruno, > Data Communications Magazine > > Re: your April 7, 1999 article "Open-Source Software: Power to the People" > > Mr. Bruno, > > I read the referenced article with great interest and care. I am > pleased to see such even and fair coverage of Open Source software, > and am particularly pleased to see your mention of BSD systems, often > overlooked by your colleagues in the popular computing press. > > I would like to provide you with some additional information on the > wealth of openly available software for BSD systems. Your article > missed some relatively important functionality that your readers may > need in order to make informed decisions about what BSD systems may do > for them. Hmmm. How about: It's often difficult to research such articles, and it's possible that you may not have been aware of some relatively important functionality that your readers may need in order to make informed decisions about what BSD systems may do for them. > Paid professional support is available for the FreeBSD operating > system from FreeBSD Mall; details are available at > http://www.freebsdmall.com/. Each of the Open Source BSD operating > system groups also offers lists of consultants familiar with BSD > systems; many of these can provide professional support on an ad hoc > basis "Ad hoc" sounds negative. How about "individual"? > as well. All are supported through the usual mail and web resources > as mentioned in your article. > > ... > > Linux does have a 2 GByte filesystem, ext2fs, but this limitation has > never hampered BSD systems. Yes it has. As you say yourself, it's been "for years". IIRC In 4.3BSD the limit was 2 GB. > *** Need to quote maximum file and filesystem sizes here. *** I don't think we can. File systems can be more than 100 GB, and you'd have to calculate the maximum file size. It depends on the (square of) the block size. > *** Need a good reference for Vinum here. At a minimum, we > can point him at http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html if OK > with Greg Lehey. *** What's wrong with that? Should I update it? I suppose that question answers itself. Anyway, you (or anybody else) are welcome to quote it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 23:16: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921CD1530A for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24326; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:13:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370C3A60.5D005F12@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:10:56 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Data Communications Magazine article References: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com> <19990408151256.L2142@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 7 April 1999 at 22:31:46 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > Mr. Lee Bruno, > > Data Communications Magazine > > > > Re: your April 7, 1999 article "Open-Source Software: Power to the People" > > > > Mr. Bruno, > > > > I read the referenced article with great interest and care. I am > > pleased to see such even and fair coverage of Open Source software, > > and am particularly pleased to see your mention of BSD systems, often > > overlooked by your colleagues in the popular computing press. > > > > I would like to provide you with some additional information on the > > wealth of openly available software for BSD systems. Your article > > missed some relatively important functionality that your readers may > > need in order to make informed decisions about what BSD systems may do > > for them. > > Hmmm. How about: > > It's often difficult to research such articles, and it's possible > that you may not have been aware of some relatively important > functionality that your readers may need in order to make informed > decisions about what BSD systems may do for them. Better. I'll reply with an update after this. > > Paid professional support is available for the FreeBSD operating > > system from FreeBSD Mall; details are available at > > http://www.freebsdmall.com/. Each of the Open Source BSD operating > > system groups also offers lists of consultants familiar with BSD > > systems; many of these can provide professional support on an ad hoc > > basis > > "Ad hoc" sounds negative. How about "individual"? Good choice. > > as well. All are supported through the usual mail and web resources > > as mentioned in your article. > > > > ... > > > > Linux does have a 2 GByte filesystem, ext2fs, but this limitation has > > never hampered BSD systems. > > Yes it has. As you say yourself, it's been "for years". IIRC In > 4.3BSD the limit was 2 GB. Ah, yes. OK, I'll correct that quote. > > *** Need to quote maximum file and filesystem sizes here. *** > > I don't think we can. File systems can be more than 100 GB, and you'd > have to calculate the maximum file size. It depends on the (square > of) the block size. And the largest supported block size is? > > *** Need a good reference for Vinum here. At a minimum, we > > can point him at http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html if OK > > with Greg Lehey. *** > > What's wrong with that? Should I update it? I suppose that question > answers itself. Anyway, you (or anybody else) are welcome to quote > it. It says right on the page that it's not up-to-date. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 7 23:23:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5384F1594B for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24347; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:21:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370C3C17.19CBD1C7@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:18:15 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Data Communications Magazine article References: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com> <19990408151256.L2142@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One more time, with feeling: Mr. Lee Bruno, Data Communications Magazine Re: your April 7, 1999 article "Open-Source Software: Power to the People" Mr. Bruno, I read the referenced article with great interest and care. I am pleased to see such even and fair coverage of Open Source software, and am particularly pleased to see your mention of BSD systems, often overlooked by your colleagues in the popular computing press. It is often difficult to research articles such as this, and I have found some developments your readers may need in order to make informed decisions about what BSD systems may do for them. Paid professional support is available for the FreeBSD operating system from FreeBSD Mall; details are available at http://www.freebsdmall.com/. Each of the Open Source BSD operating system groups also offers lists of consultants familiar with BSD systems; many of these can provide professional support on an individual basis as well. All are supported through the usual mail and web resources as mentioned in your article. Clustering is most certainly in the cards for FreeBSD as well. Several projects are working on various forms of clustering, and have stable reliable systems based on clustering technology. Simple server load balancing, a weak form of clustering, is available from the Eddieware project at http:://www.eddieware.org/. The David Sarnoff Research Center has created a loosely coupled cluster of FreeBSD machines for parallel computational work; see ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html for more information about their parallel computing cluster. Both Linux and BSD systems support standard, open-source LDAP servers. Linux and FreeBSD also support PAM--Pluggable Authentication Modules--to enable user authentication via LDP servers. While interoperability with NDS and AD is not guaranteed, it is certainly a goal of the developers of the LDAP PAM modules. Linux does have a 2 GByte filesystem, ext2fs, but this limitation does not hamper BSD systems; the ufs filesystem in 4.4BSD has supported large filesystem sizes--greater than 100 GBytes--for many years. FreeBSD 3.1 has added softupdate support, which allows asynchronous updates of filesystem data without the dangers of the Linux ext2fs approach, and the Vinum Volume Manager, which allows administrators to add space from new disk drives to existing filesystems. These additions make FreeBSD by far the best open source system for supporting large disk systems. For more information about Vinum see http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html. Complete information on FreeBSD is available at http://www.freebsd.org. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 8 0: 1:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE1C15888 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:01:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA18637; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:29:25 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA20826; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:29:20 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990408162920.P2142@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:29:20 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Data Communications Magazine article References: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com> <19990408151256.L2142@lemis.com> <370C3A60.5D005F12@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <370C3A60.5D005F12@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 11:10:56PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 7 April 1999 at 23:10:56 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, 7 April 1999 at 22:31:46 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: >>> *** Need to quote maximum file and filesystem sizes here. *** >> >> I don't think we can. File systems can be more than 100 GB, and you'd >> have to calculate the maximum file size. It depends on the (square >> of) the block size. > > And the largest supported block size is? You want I should know all the answers? I'm not even sure there is a maximum. Let's see... # newfs -N -b 262144 -f 32768 /dev/vinum/rsrc /dev/vinum/rsrc: 819200 sectors in 200 cylinders of 1 tracks, 4096 sectors 400.0MB in 13 cyl groups (16 c/g, 32.00MB/g, 2048 i/g) super-block backups (for fsck -b #) at: 512, 66048, 131584, 197120, 262656, 328192, 393728, 459264, 524800, 590336, 655872, 721408, 786944, # newfs -N -b 524288 -f 131072 /dev/vinum/rsrc /dev/vinum/rsrc: 819200 sectors in 200 cylinders of 1 tracks, 4096 sectors 400.0MB in 13 cyl groups (16 c/g, 32.00MB/g, 4096 i/g) super-block backups (for fsck -b #) at: Floating point exception (core dumped) Well, with 256 kB blocks the triple indirect inode pointers points to 2**42 blocks of 2**18 bytes, or a total of about 2**60 bytes. We'd really need to go to 512 kB blocks to address the entire 18 EB. But I suspect that's just a bug in newfs which we can fix when the need arises :-) >>> *** Need a good reference for Vinum here. At a minimum, we >>> can point him at http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html if OK >>> with Greg Lehey. *** >> >> What's wrong with that? Should I update it? I suppose that question >> answers itself. Anyway, you (or anybody else) are welcome to quote >> it. > > It says right on the page that it's not up-to-date. ;^) Sure. Lots of web pages do that. But I might update it before he sees it :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 8 0: 8:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2019315888 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA18678; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:36:26 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA20842; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:36:24 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990408163624.Q2142@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:36:24 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Data Communications Magazine article References: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com> <19990408151256.L2142@lemis.com> <370C3C17.19CBD1C7@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <370C3C17.19CBD1C7@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 11:18:15PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 7 April 1999 at 23:18:15 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > One more time, with feeling: > > Mr. Lee Bruno, > Data Communications Magazine > > Re: your April 7, 1999 article "Open-Source Software: Power to the People" > > Mr. Bruno, > > I read the referenced article with great interest and care. I am > pleased to see such even and fair coverage of Open Source software, > and am particularly pleased to see your mention of BSD systems, often > overlooked by your colleagues in the popular computing press. > > It is often difficult to research articles such as this, and > I have found in this message I have identified? > some developments your readers may need in order to make > informed decisions about what BSD systems may do for them. > > Paid professional support is available for the FreeBSD operating > system from FreeBSD Mall; details are available at > http://www.freebsdmall.com/. Each of the Open Source BSD operating > system groups also offers lists of consultants familiar with BSD > systems; many of these can provide professional support on an > individual basis as well. All are supported through the usual mail > and web resources as mentioned in your article. > > Clustering is most certainly in the cards for FreeBSD as well. > Several projects are working on various forms of clustering, and have > stable reliable systems based on clustering technology. Simple server > load balancing, a weak form of clustering, is available from the > Eddieware project at http:://www.eddieware.org/. The David Sarnoff > Research Center has created a loosely coupled cluster of FreeBSD > machines for parallel computational work; see > ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html for more > information about their parallel computing cluster. > > Both Linux and BSD systems support standard, open-source LDAP servers. > Linux and FreeBSD also support PAM--Pluggable Authentication > Modules--to enable user authentication via LDP servers. While > interoperability with NDS and AD is not guaranteed, it is certainly a > goal of the developers of the LDAP PAM modules. > > Linux does have a 2 GByte filesystem, ext2fs, but this limitation does > not hamper BSD systems; the ufs filesystem in 4.4BSD has supported > large filesystem sizes--greater than well beyond > 100 GBytes--for many years. > > FreeBSD 3.1 has added softupdate support, which allows asynchronous > updates of filesystem data without the dangers of the Linux ext2fs > approach, in a much more resilient manner than Linux's ext2fs > and the Vinum Volume Manager, which allows administrators to > add space from new disk drives to existing filesystems. These > additions make FreeBSD by far the best open source system for > supporting large disk systems. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 8 7:17:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A873B159FC for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:17:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25211; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:15:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370CAB30.2FA7EC05@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:12:16 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Data Communications Magazine article References: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com> <19990408151256.L2142@lemis.com> <370C3A60.5D005F12@softweyr.com> <19990408162920.P2142@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Wednesday, 7 April 1999 at 23:10:56 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> > >> On Wednesday, 7 April 1999 at 22:31:46 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > >>> *** Need to quote maximum file and filesystem sizes here. *** > >> > >> I don't think we can. File systems can be more than 100 GB, and you'd > >> have to calculate the maximum file size. It depends on the (square > >> of) the block size. > > > > And the largest supported block size is? > > You want I should know all the answers? I'm not even sure there is a > maximum. Let's see... > > # newfs -N -b 262144 -f 32768 /dev/vinum/rsrc > /dev/vinum/rsrc: 819200 sectors in 200 cylinders of 1 tracks, 4096 sectors > 400.0MB in 13 cyl groups (16 c/g, 32.00MB/g, 2048 i/g) > super-block backups (for fsck -b #) at: > 512, 66048, 131584, 197120, 262656, 328192, 393728, 459264, 524800, 590336, 655872, 721408, 786944, > # newfs -N -b 524288 -f 131072 /dev/vinum/rsrc > /dev/vinum/rsrc: 819200 sectors in 200 cylinders of 1 tracks, 4096 sectors > 400.0MB in 13 cyl groups (16 c/g, 32.00MB/g, 4096 i/g) > super-block backups (for fsck -b #) at: > Floating point exception (core dumped) > > Well, with 256 kB blocks the triple indirect inode pointers points to > 2**42 blocks of 2**18 bytes, or a total of about 2**60 bytes. We'd > really need to go to 512 kB blocks to address the entire 18 EB. But I > suspect that's just a bug in newfs which we can fix when the need > arises :-) I think that'll do. It should certainly allay his fears about tiny filesystems. > >>> *** Need a good reference for Vinum here. At a minimum, we > >>> can point him at http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html if OK > >>> with Greg Lehey. *** > >> > >> What's wrong with that? Should I update it? I suppose that question > >> answers itself. Anyway, you (or anybody else) are welcome to quote > >> it. > > > > It says right on the page that it's not up-to-date. ;^) > > Sure. Lots of web pages do that. But I might update it before he > sees it :-) Hokay, I'll drop it in there. Already, in fact. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 8 8: 9:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3BF159BC for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25301; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:05:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370CB6ED.502E25EF@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:02:21 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Data Communications Magazine article References: <370C3132.29B9E0F2@softweyr.com> <19990408151256.L2142@lemis.com> <370C3A60.5D005F12@softweyr.com> <19990408162920.P2142@lemis.com> <370CAB30.2FA7EC05@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mr. Lee Bruno, Data Communications Magazine Re: your April 7, 1999 article "Open-Source Software: Power to the People" Mr. Bruno, I read the referenced article with great interest and care. I am pleased to see such even and fair coverage of Open Source software, and am particularly pleased to see your mention of BSD systems, often overlooked by your colleagues in the popular computing press. It is often difficult to research articles such as this. In this article I will identify some developments your readers may need in order to make informed decisions about what BSD systems may do for them. Paid professional support is available for the FreeBSD operating system from FreeBSD Mall; details are available at http://www.freebsdmall.com/. Each of the Open Source BSD operating system groups also offers lists of consultants familiar with BSD systems; many of these can provide professional support on an individual basis as well. All are supported through the usual mail and web resources as mentioned in your article. Clustering is most certainly in the cards for FreeBSD as well. Several projects are working on various forms of clustering, and have stable reliable systems based on clustering technology. Simple server load balancing, a weak form of clustering, is available from the Eddieware project at http://www.eddieware.org/. The David Sarnoff Research Center has created a loosely coupled cluster of FreeBSD machines for parallel computational work; see ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html for more information about their parallel computing cluster. Both Linux and BSD systems support standard, open-source LDAP servers. Linux and FreeBSD also support PAM--Pluggable Authentication Modules--to enable user authentication via LDP servers. While interoperability with NDS and AD is not guaranteed, it is certainly a goal of the developers of the LDAP PAM modules. Linux does have a 2 GByte filesystem, ext2fs, but this limitation does not hamper BSD systems; the ufs filesystem in 4.4BSD has supported large filesystem sizes--up to Exabyte capacity--for many years. Recent BSD systems have added softupdate support, which allows asynchronous updates of filesystem data in a much more resilient manner than the Linux ext2fs approach. This technology is present in FreeBSD 3.1, and will be in the upcoming OpenBSD 2.5 release. Also added to FreeBSD 3.1 is the Vinum Volume Manager, which allows administrators to add space from new disk drives to existing filesystems, and to replicate data across multiple physical disks for data security. These additions make BSD systems, and particularly FreeBSD, the best open source systems for supporting large disk systems. For more information about Vinum see http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html. Information on FreeBSD is available at http://www.freebsd.org, NetBSD at http://www.netbsd.org and OpenBSD at http://www.openbsd.org. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 8 15:58:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C66214F63 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:58:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20285; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd020259; Thu Apr 8 15:56:12 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA01443; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:56:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904082256.PAA01443@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Data Communications Magazine article To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:56:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <370C3C17.19CBD1C7@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Apr 7, 99 11:18:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Linux and FreeBSD also support PAM--Pluggable Authentication > Modules--to enable user authentication via LDP servers. While *** LDAP > interoperability with NDS and AD is not guaranteed, it is certainly a > goal of the developers of the LDAP PAM modules. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 8 16:31:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5718F14D1D for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:31:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA23446; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA28360; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:28:30 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id RAA06820; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:27:09 -0600 Message-ID: <370D2C91.B650C342@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:24:17 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lbruno@data.com, datacomm@data.com Subject: Re: your April 7, 1999 article "Open-Source Software: Power to the People" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mr. Lee Bruno, Data Communications Magazine Mr. Bruno, I read the referenced article with great interest and care. I am pleased to see such even and fair coverage of Open Source software, and am particularly pleased to see your mention of BSD systems, often overlooked by your colleagues in the popular computing press. It is often difficult to research articles such as this. In this article I will identify some developments your readers may need in order to make informed decisions about what BSD systems may do for them. Paid professional support is available for the FreeBSD operating system from FreeBSD Mall; details and pricing are available at http://www.freebsdmall.com/. Each of the Open Source BSD operating system groups also offers lists of consultants familiar with BSD systems; many of these can provide professional support on an individual basis as well. All are supported through the usual mail and web resources as mentioned in your article. Clustering is most certainly in the cards for FreeBSD as well. Several projects are working on various forms of clustering, and have stable reliable systems based on clustering technology. Simple server load balancing, a weak form of clustering, is available from the Eddieware project at http://www.eddieware.org/. The David Sarnoff Research Center has created a loosely coupled cluster of FreeBSD machines for parallel computational work; see the description at ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html for more information about their parallel computing cluster. Both Linux and BSD systems support standard, open-source LDAP servers. Linux and FreeBSD also support PAM (Pluggable Authentication Modules) to enable user authentication via LDAP servers. While interoper- ability with NDS and AD is not guaranteed, it is certainly a goal of the developers of the LDAP PAM modules. Linux does have a 2 GByte filesystem, ext2fs, but this limitation does not hamper BSD systems; the ufs filesystem in 4.4BSD has supported large filesystem sizes--up to Exabyte capacity--for many years. Recent BSD systems have added softupdate support, which allows asynchronous updates of filesystem data in a much more resilient manner than the Linux ext2fs approach. This technology is present in FreeBSD 3.1 and OpenBSD 2.4. Also added to FreeBSD 3.1 is the Vinum Volume Manager, which allows administrators to add space from new disk drives to existing filesystems, and to replicate data across multiple physical disks for data security. These additions make BSD systems, and particularly FreeBSD, the best open source platforms for supporting large disk systems. For more information about Vinum see http://www.lemis.com/vinum.html. Information on FreeBSD is available at http://www.freebsd.org, on OpenBSD at http://www.netbsd.org, and on NetBSd at http://www.netbsd.org. Please feel free to contact me at the email address below if I may be of assistance in any way. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 9 15: 7:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pike.cdrom.com (pike.cdrom.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313DC15FA9 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rab@pike.cdrom.com) Received: from pike.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by pike.cdrom.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05141; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904091658.JAA05141@pike.cdrom.com> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: rab@pike.cdrom.com Subject: interviews Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:58:30 -0700 From: "Robert A. Bruce" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I talked to two reporters yesterday that are doing articles on FreeBSD. Both of them are interested in talking to people that are using FreeBSD in their organizations. If you would like to be interviewed by one (or both) of these reporters, please let me know, and I will put you in touch. One reporter writes for PC-Week. She is writing a story about big companies that are using FreeBSD, and what they are using it for, and why a company would decide to use FreeBSD instead of Linux or Solaris. She asked me a lot of questions about reliability and "support". The other reporter writes for Upside.com and the South China Morning Post (an English language newspaper in Hong Kong). He is writing about why Linux is getting so much more attention than FreeBSD. Both of these reporters are writing for a relatively non- technical audience, so they need quotes and analogies more than technical details. -bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 9 16: 3:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from isinet.com (mail.isinet.com [199.4.155.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E1D14C0E for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:03:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aturoff@isinet.com) Received: by pandora.isinet.com id <113793>; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:45:44 -0400 Message-Id: <99Apr9.184544edt.113793@pandora.isinet.com> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:59:33 -0400 From: Adam Turoff Reply-To: aturoff@isinet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Promo Opportunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eric Raymond, et alia, released a letter today addressing Steve Ballmer's more frequent musings about taking parts of Windows OpenSource. (http://linuxtoday.com/stories/4801.html) Ed Muth has been trying to FUD open source with his foot in his mouth a lot about how Open Source (specifically Linux) won't work for the typical tech buyer (i.e. CIO), mostly because anyone can hack open sources. His latest quote: "We have been able to avoid the fractionalization of the Windows NT marketplace by bringing the work that people do back into a well-controlled source tree and making sure it gets subjected to the same quality control," said Ed Muth, Microsoft's group manager for Windows 2000. http://www.zdnet.com/filters/printerfriendly/0,6061,2239301-2,00.html This is just *BEGGING* for a response from an open source project with a core team. Anyone know where I could find such a project? :-) -- Adam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 9 18:27:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from corp.au.triax.com (slwag2p14.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEDA814EC3; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:27:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@corp.au.triax.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by corp.au.triax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08398; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:25:00 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:25:00 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The Advocacy Project web site Message-ID: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> Reply-To: jim@corp.au.triax.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, As you may or may not know, Rob Garrett and myself have been appointed co-webmasters for the advocacy project. We've spent the last week or so putting together the framework for the new advocacy pages (which will be put into the FreeBSD www tree in about two weeks or so), and we'd like some input and info from all of you. We've got a prototype of the site up temporarily at http://www.ghis.net/~jim/FreeBSD/ . What we're looking for is the following: o Updated user group information. If you've started or belong to a user group, please check the site to a) make sure your group is listed, b) make sure the info there is accurate, and c) if it isn't, please send us updates. o Pictures from user group meetings and/or other events. o News and press releases. Anything you've stumbled across (web sites, magazine or ezine articles, etc.) that feature FreeBSD would be appreciated. We want to keep the news and press sections as updated as possible. o Articles. URLs to any articles about FreeBSD or if you'd like to write an "advocacy" article (such as starting a user group, etc.) let us know. o PowerPoint or MagicPoint presentations. o Links, graphics, pictures (I already mentioned that) and anything else you can find that should be on the advocacy site. Btw, if/when you go to the web site, there are some links that aren't working (everything under 'In the Press', and a few others). We're still working on that stuff. We need content for those pages, which is the reason for this message. If you've got anything you'd like to contribute, please get in touch with either Rob or myself and we'll go from there. If you've got pictures we can use, please either tar them up and put them somewhere we can grab them, or give us the URL to them and we'll grab them. Please don't send us a giant tarball by email. If you don't have anywhere to put them, let me know and I'll give you somewhere to upload them. Later, -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@corp.au.triax.com ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Triax Internet Services http://www.triax.com/ / \ The personal: http://www.triax.com/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 9 20:30:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from aauu.aaweber.com (cs9343-148.austin.rr.com [24.93.43.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72EE514D28; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:30:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aaweber@austin.rr.com) Received: (from aaweber@localhost) by aauu.aaweber.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA12756; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:28:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:28:33 -0500 From: Alan Weber To: doc@freeBSD.org Cc: advocacy@freeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD Solutions Cookbook (proposal) Message-ID: <19990409222832.A12535@austin.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a suggestion for a new kind of document that would parallel the Handbook and FAQ. I am suggesting that a "COOKBOOK" be created with "RECIPES" for common FreeBSD applications. I am listing below some of the types of recipes that I am thinking of: 1. Web Server FreeBSD 3.1 Apache 1.3.4 (variants with FP/SSL, etc.) 2. Dialup Gateway FreeBSD 3.1 PPP -alias -auto Bind 8.x Caching/Local DNS DHCPD (optional) 3. CableModem Gateway FreeBSD 3.1, ISC DHCLIENT, NATD, Bind 8.x Caching/Local DNS 4. DataBase Server FreeBSD 3.1 MySQL/POSTGRES/ORACLE(LINUX)/SOLID/etc. ODBC clients 5. Secondary DNS FreeBSD 3.1 Bind 8.x 6. File Server FreeBSD 3.1 Samba Bind 8.x DHCPD (optional) 7. Mail Server FreeBSD 3.1 SendMail/qmail/etc. Bind 8.x 8. Dial-up Gateway FreeBSD 3.1 PPP 9. Desktop Workstation FreeBSD 3.1 XFREE WindowMaker Netscape StarOffice Word Perfect GIMP 10.Game server. FreeBSD 3.1 Quake/etc. 11.Proxy Server FreeBSD 3.1 Squid 12.Installation Server with FTP installable -Stable for local replication on a local network. I used to use the electronic cookbooks for various projects where you would just buy the apropriate parts and assemble some device or sub-assembly. No theory or intimate knowledge of electronics was required, just the ability to follow directions. My thinking here is to provide a quick start mechanism for new users where they would have a working solution and then could begin to extend the solution by adding other software or implementing other recipes. Since UNIX software is driven by text files, I am hoping that the recipes would essentially be collections of configuration files with directions on how to edit them for a given recipe. One of the strengths of this approach is that the recipe would only require the download of a very small tarball that would drop in place on all the files that would need editing in a small package. Hopefully, since these are configuration files they would be longer lived than the specific version that they start with. There have been several suggestions in the mailing lists for the Install program to create these kind of configurations, however since sysinstall is a program and has to work in a floppy booted environment updating these kind of things and keeping bloat down seem to point to a web/ftp based cookbook instead. A centralizied cookbook would keep the proliferation of FreeBSD web sites with this kind of information scattered across the net and difficult to find. I had thought of creating a book that could sell in the stores but I am of the opinion that the book would get stale too quickly and would have to point to a web site to stay current anyway. Eventually a clever person could create scripts to ask some questions and cook the recipe. I am still too new to FreeBSD/Unix to implement a script approach and eventually the COOK would have to tune the configuration so having the files edited by hand may be better as a teaching tool. I would prefer that the recipes could be created from working systems. In some ways this would be like the contributed themes for desktops from individuals systems. Some RECIPES could eventually have several variations such as CableModem Gateway might have @Home, RoadRunner, etc. variants. The Data base server lends itself to a variant for each data base. Where this would differ from the Linux HOW-TOs is in that the specific recipe would talk about coordinating the edits of the configuration files so that everything would work together. I have been following the commentary on questions and people often ask for a prepackaged solution that cannot be easily packaged as FAQ answer. Month after month, people ask the same questions about the interactions among various pieces of software and hardware. There would be minimum and recommended hardware configurations targeted to each of the recipes, perhaps scaled to various size solutions. I am assuming that when software is required, that a install of a port would be directed and that the sequence of installing the component pieces would be given to minimize installation interactions. I have gone through a considerable amount of research each time I have implemented a FreeBSD solution and would like to have had some canned solution each time. This would remove some of the hurdle required to bring a FreeBSD solution into an organisation and I don't see something similar in the Linux or M$ side of things (except via expen$ive consultants). If I am resurecting/recreating a long discarded idea, I would like to know what was the previous reasons for this kind of thing not coming to fruition. I may be assuming that this simplistic description of the project is doable in a real world of complexity and change. -- When I was a kid I had to rub sticks together to multiply and divide numbers. A calculator was a job description. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 9 20:50:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB04151CF for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990410034943.WYVO5596385.mta1-rme@wocker>; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:49:43 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Alan Weber Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:48:15 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Solutions Cookbook (proposal) Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@freeBSD.org In-reply-to: <19990409222832.A12535@austin.rr.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990410034943.WYVO5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 9 Apr 99, at 22:28, Alan Weber wrote: > I have a suggestion for a new kind of document that would parallel the > Handbook and FAQ. I am suggesting that a "COOKBOOK" be created with > "RECIPES" for common FreeBSD applications. I am listing below some of the > types of recipes that I am thinking of: I think it's a great idea. This would definitely serve a purpose and meet a need. Some of these setups seem to be FAQ. [samples snipped] IMHO, the two most common configurations I've seen asked for are a Dialup Gateway and a CableModem Gateway. We've all seen lots of messages about those. I can't comment on the complexities of implementing such a solution. But it sounds like you are proposing a "select and go" solution. To me, it looks like that shouldn't be too difficult. It's merely automating the steps listed in various documents. Sounds like a plan. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 9 21:28:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A51814F06 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:28:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29144; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370EC408.263B4DB5@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 21:22:48 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: Alan Weber , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Solutions Cookbook (proposal) References: <19990410034943.WYVO5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > > On 9 Apr 99, at 22:28, Alan Weber wrote: > > > I have a suggestion for a new kind of document that would parallel the > > Handbook and FAQ. I am suggesting that a "COOKBOOK" be created with > > "RECIPES" for common FreeBSD applications. I am listing below some of the > > types of recipes that I am thinking of: > > I think it's a great idea. This would definitely serve a purpose and meet > a need. Some of these setups seem to be FAQ. > > [samples snipped] > > IMHO, the two most common configurations I've seen asked for are a Dialup > Gateway and a CableModem Gateway. We've all seen lots of messages about > those. > > I can't comment on the complexities of implementing such a solution. But > it sounds like you are proposing a "select and go" solution. To me, it > looks like that shouldn't be too difficult. It's merely automating the > steps listed in various documents. Sounds like a plan. One thing you can do is create meta-packages (or meta-ports) that just depend on all the necessary components. You pkg_add the meta-package, which adds all the other packages by depending on them, and then runs a (some) script(s) to finish configuring the system as needed. Along with some relatively clear instructions, this could be a great resource. Packaged in book form, with a CD-ROM of the meta-packages, it might convince some people FreeBSD is easier to configured than Linux. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 9 22:49: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A85D14E5C for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:49:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29282; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:46:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <370ED70E.C70C12AD@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:43:58 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: aturoff@isinet.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Promo Opportunity References: <99Apr9.184544edt.113793@pandora.isinet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adam Turoff wrote: > > Eric Raymond, et alia, released a letter today addressing > Steve Ballmer's more frequent musings about taking parts of > Windows OpenSource. (http://linuxtoday.com/stories/4801.html) > > Ed Muth has been trying to FUD open source with his foot > in his mouth a lot about how Open Source (specifically Linux) > won't work for the typical tech buyer (i.e. CIO), mostly > because anyone can hack open sources. > > His latest quote: > > "We have been able to avoid the fractionalization of the > Windows NT marketplace by bringing the work that people > do back into a well-controlled source tree and making > sure it gets subjected to the same quality control," > said Ed Muth, Microsoft's group manager for Windows 2000. > > http://www.zdnet.com/filters/printerfriendly/0,6061,2239301-2,00.html > > This is just *BEGGING* for a response from an open source project > with a core team. OK, I answered, let's see if they have the balls to publish it. The gist of my response is that all "open source" operating systems subject contributed code to architectural review just as the Win2K bug does, and the real differences boil down to the control and the vision of the architect. I scored that one thusly: #1: David Greenman #2: Theo DeRaadt #3: whomever is in charge of Solaris these days #4: Linus Torvalds #5: Tim Swihart (MacOS X -- may be moving up fast) somewhere later: Dave Cutler (OS/2 NT, Win NT, Win 2K, whatever) I'll post here if they actually print my comment. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 10 9:11: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5283114E0B for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:11:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-056.thuntek.net [207.66.52.56]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id KAA25152; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <370F772F.6F2A4D5C@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:07:11 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Weber Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Solutions Cookbook (proposal) References: <19990409222832.A12535@austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alan Weber wrote: > > I have a suggestion for a new kind of document that would parallel the > Handbook and FAQ. I am suggesting that a "COOKBOOK" be created with > "RECIPES" for common FreeBSD applications. I am listing below some of the > types of recipes that I am thinking of: Alan, this is an excellent idea, and Bob Bruce and I talked extensively about this kind of thing over the last couple of days. We'd actually like to take it a step further and package such optional auto-configs on the CD set. It would be a really good idea to parallel that with a hardcopy cookbook that goes into real detail about the why's and wherefore's of doing it and what the 'gotchas' are. Let me also put out on this list that Bob said efforts like this are important enough to him that he's willing to pay competent people to both write the config scripts and the documentation. Please write directly to him (rab@cdrom.com) if you want to explore this option seriously, he wants to get going. What we talked about for the CD set is that there will be two new forks in sysinstall: first, there will be an even easier path through the first part that makes all the installation choices up to the "Congrats! You now have..." page. Then, after that, there will be a checkoff menu of these pre-configured installs, from desktops to game server, that you can choose or not. If you choose none, of course, you also have the existing 'pick your packages' menu tree. Such a configuration will vastly improve our marketability to both the suits and the newbies, without reducing its appeal to techies and SysAdmins. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 10 13:43:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0154B15347 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:43:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA34878; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Donald Wilde Cc: Alan Weber , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Solutions Cookbook (proposal) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:07:11 MDT." <370F772F.6F2A4D5C@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:41:09 -0700 Message-ID: <34876.923776869@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Let me also put out on this list that Bob said efforts like this are > important enough to him that he's willing to pay competent people to > both write the config scripts and the documentation. Please write > directly to him (rab@cdrom.com) if you want to explore this option > seriously, he wants to get going. Erm, anything that involves the installation of the system has to go through me - Bob may sign the checks, but I decide what goes into the installer and, in the current system, doing "canned configs" is both unwieldy and far less featureful than desired. It's one of the reasons we're doing a new one now. Maybe the cookbook is a better place to start; fewer external dependencies. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 10 14: 8:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57EB2153D2; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09957; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:05:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:05:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Jim Mock Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Advocacy Project web site In-Reply-To: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Jim Mock wrote: > If you've got anything you'd like to contribute, please get in touch > with either Rob or myself and we'll go from there. I've got a few comments - in the image gallery, at least so far on the "new daemon" page you are requiring the browser to scale the images for the "thumbnails." This is bad - the user still has to load the entire 90kB image instead of a smaller thumbnail. Please make smaller versions of the images to use as the thumbnails - both xv and gimp will do this easily. For example the daemon-doc (which by the way you have daemon misspelled as "deamon" for all of the graphics names) image, scaled down to 200x170 as you've done in the HTML changes size as follows: hot-monkey: {2} ll deamon-doc* -rw-rw-r-- 1 brett wheel 11576 Apr 10 14:56 deamon-doc-small.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 brett wheel 93090 Apr 10 14:54 deamon-doc.jpg That's 9x (roughly) less data to transfer for the end user. For all 5 images that's a BIG time savings over a modem. You appear to have done this on EVERY page of images. This really needs to be changed or you're defeating the entire purpose of the thumbnail. I'm also wondering what the "Super Advocates" link is for... In the main text in paragraph 2 you have a mistake in the HTML for the projects list. The link should point to: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/#advocacy not http://www.freebsd.org/projects/#advocacy/. In the April 1999 "In the press" section there is a link to CNN as: http://www.cnn.com/ I'd remove this link and just have the pointer to the article at CNN as you do. I figured the "CNN" link would take me to the actual article. That's about it for now. One thing I would also suggest is going through each and every link and making sure it points where you expect it to. :-) Other than the above things though it looks great. Nice job. Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 10 20:12:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fosburgh.dyndns.org (Dorm-36314.RH.UH.EDU [129.7.141.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0F915102 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wotan@fosburgh.dyndns.org) Received: from localhost (wotan@localhost) by fosburgh.dyndns.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA79423 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:10:39 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from wotan@fosburgh.dyndns.org) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:10:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Fosburgh Reply-To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Stallman takes credit for BSD? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I found the following on the FSF website: Aside from GNU, one other project has independently produced a free Unix-like operating system. This system is known as BSD, and it was developed at UC Berkeley. The BSD developers were inspired by the example of the GNU Project, and occasionally encouraged by GNU activists, but their actual work had little overlap with GNU. BSD systems today use some GNU software, just as the GNU system and its variants use some BSD software; but taken as wholes, they are two different systems which evolved separately. A free operating system that exists today is almost certainly either a variant of the GNU system, or a kind of BSD system. The page is: http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html Is Stallman taking credit for the creation of BSD? Or is he taking credit for the BSD derivatives, FreeBSD included. Either way, this paragraph is certainly misleading and possibly intentionally so. The implication that there is more in common between BSD and GNU than there truly is. It would seem to me that this is a PR problem for us, since more people, unfortunately, are likely to read the FSF webpages (and I got to think page originally from www.gnome.org) than FreeBSD's at this time, and it might cause people to think BSD is a clone of GNU rather than BSD being a derivative of UNIX. Opinions? -- Jonathan Fosburgh Geotechnician Snyder Oil Corporation Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498 Manager, FreeBSD Webring: http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498/computer/freebsdring.html ICQ: 32742908 AIM: Namthorien To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 10 20:53:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B2814BFC for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:52:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA04462; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:20:08 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA43540; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:19:44 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990411131944.E2142@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:19:44 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stallman takes credit for BSD? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jonathan Fosburgh on Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 10:10:38PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 10 April 1999 at 22:10:38 -0500, Jonathan Fosburgh wrote: > I found the following on the FSF website: > > Aside from GNU, one other project has independently produced a free > Unix-like operating system. This system is known as BSD, and it was > developed at UC Berkeley. The BSD developers were inspired by the example > of the GNU Project, and occasionally encouraged by GNU activists, but > their actual work had little overlap with GNU. BSD systems today use some > GNU software, just as the GNU system and its variants use some BSD > software; but taken as wholes, they are two different systems which > evolved separately. A free operating system that exists today is almost > certainly either a variant of the GNU system, or a kind of BSD system. > > The page is: http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html > > Is Stallman taking credit for the creation of BSD? No: "Aside from GNU, one other project..." > Or is he taking credit for the BSD derivatives, FreeBSD included. Partially, by the looks of it. > Either way, this paragraph is certainly misleading and possibly > intentionally so. I think he's probably right. If the FSF hadn't already existed, I suspect that the CSRG, particularly Jolitz, wouldn't have had the idea of making BSD free, or if they had, they would have found it much more difficult to do so, probably impossibly difficult. > The implication that there is more in common between BSD and GNU > than there truly is. I don't see that. What I *do* see is that he's trying to pretend that Linux and GNU are the same thing: A free operating system that exists today is almost certainly either a variant of the GNU system, or a kind of BSD system. > It would seem to me that this is a PR problem for us, since more > people, unfortunately, are likely to read the FSF webpages (and I > got to think page originally from www.gnome.org) than FreeBSD's at > this time, and it might cause people to think BSD is a clone of GNU > rather than BSD being a derivative of UNIX. Where do you read that? What I read is: they are two different systems which evolved separately. > Opinions? I think this is a positive message. As you say, more people probably read the FSF web pages than ours. Stallman is doing *BSD a service by mentioning us. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 10 20:54:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from merhaba.cc.columbia.edu (merhaba.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5737D14E5C for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:54:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-6-3.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.47.39]) by merhaba.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11256; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37101C78.52CB80C6@confusion.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:52:24 -0400 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stallman takes credit for BSD? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not quite the impression I get from that. It gives me the impression that BSD developed independently, but that it uses some GNU software. That is true. It gives me the opinion that the GNU operating system (Debian GNU/Linux or the now semi-functional GNU/Hurd) uses some BSD stuff. It also makes the claim that the BSD people were inspired by GNU. That may be true, I dont know, maybe someone like Jordan or David would let us know on that one? It does seem a bit misleading, since I had to read it three times to get some sort of an idea of just how much Stallman is taking credit for, and at first glance it could hurt FreeBSD, but I'm not sure. Jonathan Fosburgh wrote: > I found the following on the FSF website: > > Aside from GNU, one other project has independently produced a free > Unix-like operating system. This system is known as BSD, and it was > developed at UC Berkeley. The BSD developers were inspired by the example > of the GNU Project, and occasionally encouraged by GNU activists, but > their actual work had little overlap with GNU. BSD systems today use some > GNU software, just as the GNU system and its variants use some BSD > software; but taken as wholes, they are two different systems which > evolved separately. A free operating system that exists today is almost > certainly either a variant of the GNU system, or a kind of BSD system. > > The page is: http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html > > Is Stallman taking credit for the creation of BSD? Or is he taking > credit for the BSD derivatives, FreeBSD included. Either way, this > paragraph is certainly misleading and possibly intentionally so. The > implication that there is more in common between BSD and GNU than there > truly is. It would seem to me that this is a PR problem for us, since > more people, unfortunately, are likely to read the FSF webpages (and I > got to think page originally from www.gnome.org) than FreeBSD's at this > time, and it might cause people to think BSD is a clone of GNU rather > than BSD being a derivative of UNIX. Opinions? > > -- > Jonathan Fosburgh > -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 10 22:13:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from corp.au.triax.com (slwag1p23.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D41014FC4 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:13:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@corp.au.triax.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by corp.au.triax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA33636; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:11:07 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:11:06 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Brett Taylor Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Advocacy Project web site Message-ID: <19990411151106.E33399@corp.au.triax.com> Reply-To: jim@corp.au.triax.com References: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [removed -chat from Cc list] On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 at 15:05:28 -0600, Brett Taylor wrote: > Hi, > Hi Brett, [snip..] > I've got a few comments - in the image gallery, at least so far on > the "new daemon" page you are requiring the browser to scale the > images for the "thumbnails." This is bad - the user still has to > load the entire 90kB image instead of a smaller thumbnail. Please > make smaller versions of the images to use as the thumbnails - both > xv and gimp will do this easily. I did that earlier today. It was something I planned on doing eventually but forgot about. Thanks for reminding me =) > I'm also wondering what the "Super Advocates" link is for... > This came from Don's site (http://www.thuntek.net/~dwilde1/advotasks.html) under the Ammunition section.. 7. Awarding Recognition and Incentives to Super-Advocates o Hard-to-get, kill-if-not-earned special T-Shirts o Recognition Plaques and Awards o Normal T-Shirts o Crystal Logo Plates o Special Website honors > In the main text in paragraph 2 you have a mistake in the HTML for > the projects list. The link should point to: > > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/#advocacy > Whoops, typo. Fixed, thanks. > In the April 1999 "In the press" section there is a link to CNN as: > > http://www.cnn.com/ > > I'd remove this link and just have the pointer to the article at CNN > as you do. I figured the "CNN" link would take me to the actual > article. > I'm not sure what we'll do here. I understand what you're saying, but I think it's also good to provide a link back to the main publication/web site as well as the article. > Other than the above things though it looks great. Nice job. > Thanks =) Later, -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@corp.au.triax.com ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Triax Internet Services http://www.triax.com/ / \ The personal: http://www.triax.com/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 3:18: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from firewall1.lehman.com (firewall.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD23150B6; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:17:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay.messaging-svcs2.lehman.com by firewall1.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA18679; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lonmailhost.lehman.com by relay.messaging-svcs2.lehman.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id GAA01004; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lonmailhost.lehman.com (SMI-8.6/Lehman Bros. V1.5) id LAA11804; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:15:07 +0100 Message-ID: <19990412111502.P14492@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:15:02 +0100 From: nclayton@lehman.com To: jim@corp.au.triax.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Advocacy Project web site References: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com>; from Jim Mock on Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 11:25:00AM +1000 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 11:25:00AM +1000, Jim Mock wrote: > We've spent the last week or so putting together the framework for the > new advocacy pages (which will be put into the FreeBSD www tree in > about two weeks or so), and we'd like some input and info from all of > you. We've got a prototype of the site up temporarily at > http://www.ghis.net/~jim/FreeBSD/ . Personal bug bear -- the main header graphic has a white background. So does the web page. If Netscape is in a low colour situation, it will *dither* the white on the header graphic, leaving ugly stipples. Please use giftrans (or possibly called transgif) in the ports tree to set the background of the GIF to transparent, as well as white. > What we're looking for is the following: > > o Updated user group information. If you've started or belong > to a user group, please check the site to a) make sure your > group is listed, b) make sure the info there is accurate, > and c) if it isn't, please send us updates. The UK information looks accurate. Is this page intended to replace the FreeBSD Usergroups information on the main web site, or to duplicate it? I'm a little uneasy at having duplicate sources for the same information. Experience tells me they always get out of sync. Couldn't this section just link back to the user groups stuff on the main web site? N -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 3:35:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE89D150B6; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:35:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-019.thuntek.net [207.66.52.19]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id EAA23116; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3711CBA5.8437FFD2@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:32:05 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nclayton@lehman.com Cc: jim@corp.au.triax.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Advocacy Project web site References: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> <19990412111502.P14492@lehman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We'll be taking over the User's Groups, Press links and Gallery sections, Nik. Wolfram can't wait to get out from under it! When we're ready, he and we will e-chat until we get it all straightened out, then we'll deploy it all at once. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 5:21:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from corp.au.triax.com (slwag2p14.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD1715226 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:21:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@corp.au.triax.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by corp.au.triax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA86893; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:18:54 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:18:48 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: nclayton@lehman.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Advocacy Project web site Message-ID: <19990412221848.C86785@corp.au.triax.com> Reply-To: jim@corp.au.triax.com References: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> <19990412111502.P14492@lehman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990412111502.P14492@lehman.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [-chat removed from Cc's] On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 at 11:15:02 +0100, nclayton@lehman.com wrote: > On Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 11:25:00AM +1000, Jim Mock wrote: > > We've spent the last week or so putting together the framework for > > the new advocacy pages (which will be put into the FreeBSD www > > tree in about two weeks or so), and we'd like some input and info > > from all of you. We've got a prototype of the site up temporarily > > at http://www.ghis.net/~jim/FreeBSD/ . > > Personal bug bear -- the main header graphic has a white background. > So does the web page. If Netscape is in a low colour situation, it > will *dither* the white on the header graphic, leaving ugly stipples. > Please use giftrans (or possibly called transgif) in the ports tree > to set the background of the GIF to transparent, as well as white. > Thanks for the tip. It's giftrans, I checked =) I'll install it and play around with it in the morning. > > What we're looking for is the following: > > > > o Updated user group information. If you've started or belong > > to a user group, please check the site to a) make sure your > > group is listed, b) make sure the info there is accurate, > > and c) if it isn't, please send us updates. > > The UK information looks accurate. > > Is this page intended to replace the FreeBSD Usergroups information > on the main web site, or to duplicate it? > It'll replace it. As Don said in his reply, we're taking over that section and a few others as well. -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@corp.au.triax.com ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Triax Internet Services http://www.triax.com/ / \ The personal: http://www.triax.com/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 6:11:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C3E14A2E for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:11:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id WAA07861; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:09:10 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3711EF96.61BFE9C2@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:05:26 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jim@corp.au.triax.com Cc: nclayton@lehman.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Advocacy Project web site References: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> <19990412111502.P14492@lehman.com> <19990412221848.C86785@corp.au.triax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jim Mock wrote: > > > Personal bug bear -- the main header graphic has a white background. > > So does the web page. If Netscape is in a low colour situation, it > > will *dither* the white on the header graphic, leaving ugly stipples. > > Please use giftrans (or possibly called transgif) in the ports tree > > to set the background of the GIF to transparent, as well as white. > > > > Thanks for the tip. It's giftrans, I checked =) I'll install it and > play around with it in the morning. And then test it setting the browser background color to something other than white, to see if that doesn't screw up things... (I hate it when people assume the default background color is anything other than what *I* set it to, which can be anything) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "nothing better than the ability to perform cunning linguistics" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 7:14:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F0C14FA3 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:14:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06460; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:12:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3711FF3C.29BE1CB7@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:12:12 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stallman takes credit for BSD? References: <19990411131944.E2142@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > I think this is a positive message. As you say, more people probably > read the FSF web pages than ours. Stallman is doing *BSD a service by > mentioning us. Agreed. 386bsd would never have been created without the GNU C compiler. Whatever you think of the FSF and Stallman and their politics, their products have been a huge factor in created free software, and their free distribution model has at least shown the world that high-quality software for free isn't a pipe dream. What we really need there are links to BSD web pages. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 10:34:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ns.cvzoom.net (ns.cvzoom.net [208.226.154.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C562F1500C for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmmiller@cvzoom.net) Received: from cvzoom.net (lcl75.cvzoom.net [208.226.155.75]) by ns.cvzoom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02007; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37123C41.A1FE3A51@cvzoom.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:32:33 -0500 From: Donn Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-19990406-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Fosburgh , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stallman takes credit for BSD? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Fosburgh wrote: > Is Stallman taking credit for the creation of BSD? Or is he taking > credit for the BSD derivatives, FreeBSD included. Either way, this > paragraph is certainly misleading and possibly intentionally so. The There Stallman goes again, thinking he's god. The guy creates emacs, and his ego swells to the size of Mount Rushmore. -- Donn dmmiller@cvzoom.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 14:46:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B6F15542; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA09278; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:37:51 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:37:51 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Charles Henrich , advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: Dan Langille , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Message-ID: <19990412193751.A8799@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199904110942.CAA26752@rah.star-gate.com>; <19990412014046.C17685@orbit.flnet.com> <19990412085515.MNLW5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990412100331.F5248@orbit.flnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990412100331.F5248@orbit.flnet.com>; from Charles Henrich on Mon, Apr 12, 1999 at 10:03:31AM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ For the -advocacy folks; FreeBSD was used to do {some,all} of the CGI SFX in the new file _The Matrix_. Our own Charles Henrich is in the credits, but FreeBSD isn't ] On Mon, Apr 12, 1999 at 10:03:31AM -0700, Charles Henrich wrote: > > I couldn't wait for the credits. But I will when I see it next time. > > :) There's no mention of FreeBSD I'm afraid. Just the names of all > those who worked hard on the film! This just screams "Press Release" at me. Paging Don Wilde, paging Don Wilde, we have your first case here. Particularly if we can say something like "The Effects are x% more involved than those in Titanic (which used the popular Linux OS), but were achieved in y% of the time, due to FreeBSD's superior scalability. . ." N -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 17: 2:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63DDB14EA0; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id TAA28055; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:59:40 -0700 From: Charles Henrich To: Nik Clayton Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, Dan Langille , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Message-ID: <19990412165940.F25425@orbit.flnet.com> References: <199904110942.CAA26752@rah.star-gate.com>; <19990412014046.C17685@orbit.flnet.com> <19990412085515.MNLW5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990412100331.F5248@orbit.flnet.com> <19990412193751.A8799@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990412193751.A8799@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Mon, Apr 12, 1999 at 07:37:51PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On the subject of Re: Charles Henrich a Star?, Nik Clayton stated: > Particularly if we can say something like "The Effects are x% more involved > than those in Titanic (which used the popular Linux OS), but were achieved > in y% of the time, due to FreeBSD's superior scalability. . ." I doubt you can say that :) In honest reality you could've done it on Linux, as we were using the linux binaries. I chose FreeBSD for its improved reliability and my happiness. -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 18: 2: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C8614CFD for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28962; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:59:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd028949; Mon Apr 12 17:59:36 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16856; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:59:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904130059.RAA16856@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Stallman takes credit for BSD? To: stuyman@confusion.net (Laurence Berland) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:59:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <37101C78.52CB80C6@confusion.net> from "Laurence Berland" at Apr 10, 99 11:52:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It also makes the claim that the BSD people were inspired by GNU. I was certainly inspired by the GNU Manifesto. It inspired me to work on BSD and not Linux. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 12 23:22:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A87E14C1B; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990413062214.WDWZ5752963.mta2-rme@wocker>; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:22:14 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Charles Henrich Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:20:25 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <19990412165940.F25425@orbit.flnet.com> References: <19990412193751.A8799@catkin.nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Mon, Apr 12, 1999 at 07:37:51PM +0100 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990413062214.WDWZ5752963.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 12 Apr 99, at 16:59, Charles Henrich wrote: > On the subject of Re: Charles Henrich a Star?, Nik Clayton stated: > > > Particularly if we can say something like "The Effects are x% more > > involved than those in Titanic (which used the popular Linux OS), but > > were achieved in y% of the time, due to FreeBSD's superior scalability. > > . ." > > I doubt you can say that :) In honest reality you could've done it on > Linux, as we were using the linux binaries. I chose FreeBSD for its > improved reliability and my happiness. Talk to Jordan. He was bragging last night that he's good at milking the most out of stuff like that. He'll guide you along when writing this press release. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 0:38:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD851530A; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA07437; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:27:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:27:12 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Charles Henrich Cc: Nik Clayton , advocacy@freebsd.org, Dan Langille , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Message-ID: <19990413082712.A7233@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199904110942.CAA26752@rah.star-gate.com>; <19990412014046.C17685@orbit.flnet.com> <19990412085515.MNLW5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990412100331.F5248@orbit.flnet.com> <19990412193751.A8799@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <19990412165940.F25425@orbit.flnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990412165940.F25425@orbit.flnet.com>; from Charles Henrich on Mon, Apr 12, 1999 at 04:59:40PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 12, 1999 at 04:59:40PM -0700, Charles Henrich wrote: > On the subject of Re: Charles Henrich a Star?, Nik Clayton stated: > > Particularly if we can say something like "The Effects are x% more involved > > than those in Titanic (which used the popular Linux OS), but were achieved > > in y% of the time, due to FreeBSD's superior scalability. . ." > > I doubt you can say that :) In honest reality you could've done it on Linux, > as we were using the linux binaries. I chose FreeBSD for its improved > reliability and my happiness. "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over Linux for increased reliability" Sounds good to me. N -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 0:51:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB1D14D48; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA58592; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:49:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nik Clayton Cc: Charles Henrich , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Dan Langille , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:27:12 BST." <19990413082712.A7233@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:49:49 -0700 Message-ID: <58590.923989789@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over Linux for increased reliability" Or, even less combatatively: "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD for overall reliability" Then in the article you can have a paragraph saying how Linux was evaluated and FreeBSD chosen instead, even though the renderman binary was a Linux one. Even if it just states reasons of personal preference for this, it's fine. Just so long as it's not in the headline or makes claims that Linux is somehow less reliable in general (stating a preference is not the same as making bold claims), we're fine. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 0:59:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B96415665; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:59:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA40104; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199904130756.AAA40104@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nik Clayton , Charles Henrich , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Dan Langille , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:49:49 PDT." <58590.923989789@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:56:15 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nah , lets just be up front, We are the "Cure" for an Internet infested with virus and linux. Don't mind me just playing around. Have Fun Guys, Amancio > > "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over Linux for increased reliability" > > Or, even less combatatively: > > "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD for overall reliability" > > Then in the article you can have a paragraph saying how Linux was > evaluated and FreeBSD chosen instead, even though the renderman binary > was a Linux one. Even if it just states reasons of personal > preference for this, it's fine. Just so long as it's not in the > headline or makes claims that Linux is somehow less reliable in > general (stating a preference is not the same as making bold claims), > we're fine. > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 4:25:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from knfpub.com (knfpub.com [192.41.28.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE8814BFD for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:25:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjag@knfpub.com) Received: from fuzzy.au.eggdrop.net (fuzzy@fuzzy.au.eggdrop.net [203.38.198.131]) by knfpub.com (8.8.5) id FAA10261; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:52:54 +0930 (CST) Reply-To: cjag@knfpub.com From: Christine Jaeger To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: SAFUG - new FreeBSD users group Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everyone, We would like to announce a new FreeBSD users group for Adelaide, South Australia - SAFUG. For more details please visit our website at http://www.knfpub.com/safug/index.html If you would like to subscribe to our mailing list, please send an email to majordomo@beldin.net with a blank subject line and subscribe safug in the message body. Our first meeting is not yet confirmed, but we hope to hold one sometime in May. Announcements about the meeting will be posted on our website and mailing list. If you have any further questions, please email cjag@knfpub.com or beldin@beldin.net Cheers, Chris :) ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Christine Jaeger Date: 13-Apr-99 Time: 20:51:01 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 6:13: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk (mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk [130.246.170.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE8D1553E for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmb@mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk) Received: (from tmb@localhost) by mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id OAA49402 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:10:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from tmb) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:10:28 +0100 From: Mark Blackman To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: CNET Builder.com interview with IMDb creator Message-ID: <19990413141028.A49385@rcru.rl.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FYI, At http://www.builder.com/Graphics/Critique/040799/interview.html there's a recent interview with Murray Chapman of IMDb where it's indicated (at the bottom) that they use FreeBSD (along with Windows and MacOS). This is reasonably well known anyway, but this page spells it out better than any other I've seen. -- Mark Blackman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 7:50:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3F114D0A for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:50:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-020.thuntek.net [207.66.52.20]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id IAA06086; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371358E1.5742B41E@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:46:57 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, louis@signalpath.on.ca Subject: Call for BSD News! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Reposted for Louis Bertrand, news editor for our e-zine DaemonNews >>>>>>>>>>> Hello all, I'm the news editor for Daemon News and I want to make sure that all three open-source BSDs get fair representation on the news page. Please send us information about the progress of the FreeBSD project. You can write it up as a short article (2-3 paragraphs) or a quick note (2-3 lines). If writing is not your strong point, we can help you with style. What's important is the news item itself and your perspective. We're also starting a column tentatively called "Commit Log". This will be a point-form listing of the little changes and improvements made during the month, somewhat like the scores page in a sports paper. I'd like someone with commit privileges on FreeBSD to forward the month's information to me. Last month, we had to drop a few items because there was no convenient place for them. The "commit log" page will remedy this. Any trends or significant events in the column can be pulled out and made into a full news article. Any mention of FreeBSD (or any *BSD) in the mainstream press is also welcome. We'll have a small column for "BSD in the press", with possibly a full review if it's a significant article. This also includes any papers, articles or "white papers" you wrote. You can send stuff directly to myself: louis@signalpath.on.ca or louis@odel.on.ca or to the DaemonNews article address: article@daemonnews.org a The latest news page is April 99: http://www.daemonnews.org/199904/news.html Thanks --Louis <<<<<<<<<<<<< Thank _you_, Louis, you're doing a great job and I'm looking forward to the expansions you were talking about on our private list! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 9: 4:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (mail1.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F641557A for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-77-5.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.77.5]) by mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19803; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA03103; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:01:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199904131601.MAA03103@bellsouth.net> To: Nik Clayton Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:27:12 BST." <19990413082712.A7233@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:01:52 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over Linux for increased reliability" I dunno... might cause a negative backlash with the direct comparison. I'd just: "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD for increased reliability". Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 10:18: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.cian.net (tnt-3-244.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F9614BE5 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from ukonline.co.uk (localhost.cian.net [127.0.0.1]) by wolf.cian.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA01079; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:15:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Message-ID: <37137BA1.132E338E@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:15:14 +0100 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: Nik Clayton , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? References: <199904131601.MAA03103@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A7443E8BF338B8549D25B065" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --------------A7443E8BF338B8549D25B065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO putting *down* Linux is counter productive (consider it in-fighting of the Free OS's) and a comparison with say commercial OS's would be better. EXAMPLE: - ---- "Top movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over commercial offerings for its increased reliability" Possibly followed closely by (for example) ....... Insiders say "There was no competition - we needed a fast, stable and reliable platform and, we needed it like yesterday ...... " ---- If MR Henrich would be so kind as to repeat the above statement then it would be no lie ;-) Cheers, Chris R. W Gerald Hicks wrote: > "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over Linux for increased reliability" > > I dunno... might cause a negative backlash with the direct comparison. > > I'd just: > > "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD for increased reliability". > > Cheers, > > Jerry Hicks > wghicks@bellsouth.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- FreeBSD - The power to serve http://www.freebsd.org/ --------------A7443E8BF338B8549D25B065 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO putting *down* Linux is counter productive (consider it in-fighting of the Free OS's) and a comparison with say commercial OS's would be better.

EXAMPLE: -

----
"Top movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over commercial offerings for its increased reliability"

Possibly followed closely by (for example) .......

Insiders say "There was no competition - we needed a fast, stable and reliable platform and, we needed it like yesterday ...... "
----
 

If MR Henrich would be so kind as to repeat the above statement then it would be no lie  ;-)
 

Cheers,
Chris R.
 
 
 
 
 

W Gerald Hicks wrote:

"Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over Linux for increased reliability"

I dunno... might cause a negative backlash with the direct comparison.

I'd just:

"Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD for increased reliability".

Cheers,

Jerry Hicks
wghicks@bellsouth.net

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message

-- 
FreeBSD - The power to serve
http://www.freebsd.org/
  --------------A7443E8BF338B8549D25B065-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 14:17:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3707515117; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:17:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01888; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:14:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <58590.923989789@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why fight Linux anyway? I'd say NT is a bigger threat. After all, you're trying to get this thru to IT managers at big corporations and the like. They're not comparing the Unices, they're looking at it from a "NT or... what?" kinda viewpoint. --- tani hosokawa river styx internet On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD over Linux for increased reliability" > > Or, even less combatatively: > > "Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD for overall reliability" > > Then in the article you can have a paragraph saying how Linux was > evaluated and FreeBSD chosen instead, even though the renderman binary > was a Linux one. Even if it just states reasons of personal > preference for this, it's fine. Just so long as it's not in the > headline or makes claims that Linux is somehow less reliable in > general (stating a preference is not the same as making bold claims), > we're fine. > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 15:27:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B8614C91; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:27:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09418; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.32.19990413162355.00c458c0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.32 (Beta) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:24:45 -0600 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Charles Henrich From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990413062214.WDWZ5752963.mta2-rme@wocker> References: <19990412165940.F25425@orbit.flnet.com> <19990412193751.A8799@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 06:20 PM 4/13/99 +1200, Dan Langille wrote: >Talk to Jordan. He was bragging last night that he's good at milking the >most out of stuff like that. He'll guide you along when writing this >press release. With all due respect, PR is not one of Jordan's strong points. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 16:29: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F28D158D2; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:28:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA61309; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brett Glass Cc: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Charles Henrich , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:24:45 MDT." <4.2.0.32.19990413162355.00c458c0@localhost> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:26:49 -0700 Message-ID: <61307.924046009@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > With all due respect, PR is not one of Jordan's strong points. With all due respect, *your kind* of PR is not one of my strong points and I hope to god it never is. That would be like deciding to become a divorce lawyer. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 16:54: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DF6215271; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:54:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id TAA21581; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:51:23 -0700 From: Charles Henrich To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Brett Glass , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PR Wars Message-ID: <19990413165123.A20346@orbit.flnet.com> References: <4.2.0.32.19990413162355.00c458c0@localhost> <61307.924046009@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <61307.924046009@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 04:26:49PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > With all due respect, PR is not one of Jordan's strong points. > > With all due respect, *your kind* of PR is not one of my strong points and I > hope to god it never is. That would be like deciding to become a divorce > lawyer. :-) Alright, no flame wars under my name, change the subject line if your gonna fight :) -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 16:58:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999B714CC7; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10231; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:56:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.32 (Beta) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:56:14 -0600 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Cc: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Charles Henrich , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <61307.924046009@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share and visibility that it may never catch up. --Brett Glass At 04:26 PM 4/13/99 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> With all due respect, PR is not one of Jordan's strong points. > >With all due respect, *your kind* of PR is not one of my strong points >and I hope to god it never is. That would be like deciding to become >a divorce lawyer. :-) > >- Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 17:21:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from woodstock.monkey.net (kronos-1-101.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.85.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D3214CBE for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamilton@pobox.com) Received: from pobox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woodstock.monkey.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59163152; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:18:48 -0500 (CDT) To: Brett Glass Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Charles Henrich , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:56:14 MDT." <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:18:48 -0500 From: Jon Hamilton Message-Id: <19990414001848.59163152@woodstock.monkey.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ -chat dropped from Cc: list ] } >> With all due respect, PR is not one of Jordan's strong points. } > } >With all due respect, *your kind* of PR is not one of my strong points } >and I hope to god it never is. That would be like deciding to become } >a divorce lawyer. :-) } } My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD } for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share } and visibility that it may never catch up. Your kind of PR (at least as seen on the lists) may be effective, but the only thing it's effective _at_ is alienating people you're trying to convince and people you should be working with. -- Jon Hamilton hamilton@pobox.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 18:28:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBEF14EF2 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:28:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10952; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.32.19990413192202.04e44950@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.32 (Beta) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:25:21 -0600 To: Jon Hamilton From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Charles Henrich , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990414001848.59163152@woodstock.monkey.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 07:18 PM 4/13/99 -0500, Jon Hamilton wrote: >Your kind of PR (at least as seen on the lists) may be effective, I haven't done any PR on the lists. Jordan proclaimed, ex Cathedra, that any PR other than what he advocated (i.e. virtually none) should be discouraged. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 19:17:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E56514FA7; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:17:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA22526; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:14:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Brett Glass Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Charles Henrich , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD > for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share > and visibility that it may never catch up. Damn, it sucks so much that we're not Linux. Maybe we can beg Becker to write us some code so we can be just like Linux. (That is, if you think you can match each line to a rabid frothing zealot.) -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 20:44:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pokey.local.net.local.net (tcs1-51.netwalk.net [206.175.52.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C1B514D58; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:44:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmutter@netwalk.com) Received: from insomnia.local.net (insomnia.local.net [192.168.2.3]) by pokey.local.net.local.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA01929; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:41:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jmutter@insomnia.local.net) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:43:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "James A. Mutter" Reply-To: jmutter@netwalk.com To: Brett Glass Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Charles Henrich , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [ enough already ] Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, no matter how you cut it, this is certainly negative PR. If I were a potential user and browsing this list I would certainly be disappointed to see this petty bickering. It's no secret that you two (Jordan and Brett) don't always share the same viewpoint, it would be nice however if you could keep you little flamewars in private mail and not the list. On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: :My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD :for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share :and visibility that it may never catch up. : :--Brett Glass : :At 04:26 PM 4/13/99 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: :>> With all due respect, PR is not one of Jordan's strong points. :> :>With all due respect, *your kind* of PR is not one of my strong points :>and I hope to god it never is. That would be like deciding to become :>a divorce lawyer. :-) :> :>- Jordan : : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message : : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 22: 6:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (notabene.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF4115494 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id WAA84926; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:03:57 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Brett Glass Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Message-ID: <19990413220357.D63380@001101.zer0.org> References: <61307.924046009@zippy.cdrom.com> <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 05:56:14PM -0600 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 05:56:14PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD > for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share > and visibility that it may never catch up. Brett, I think we all liked it better after you said this: >After pondering, silently, what to do about the attitudes I've seen >expressed on this list, I've decided that I'd best save my time, >bandwidth, and effort by resigning from it. Unfortunately, that only lasted about two weeks, and now you're back. And guess what? A nasty argument, that you somehow seem to be involved in, has sprung up under the subject header of a very positive FreeBSD event. Now, of course we have nasty arguments without you, but somehow the participants in those arguments seem to be logical and rational, or at least know when to stop arguing. Let me give you some unsolicited advice: if you don't like the way FreeBSD advocacy is done, if you don't like someone's methodology or philosophy, _do_ _something_ _yourself_. If people don't agree with you, you will not get support. If they do agree, you will get support. And if people _consistently_ fail to support your actions, maybe you had better reevaluate your desire to participate in the project, rather than finding a superior one (or at least one which matches your goals better). Any way you look at it, though, constant whining about people who have done more good for the project than you likely will ever do will _not_ get you very far, and will likely turn people _away_ from supporting your ideas, whether they agree or disagree with them. HTH. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter The best way to accelerate Windows mailto:gsutter@pobox.com is at 9.8 m/s^2. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 23:17:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6278915128; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:17:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA68821; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:16:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:16:02 -0700 Message-ID: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 13 23:35: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B47C153BD for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:35:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 6991 invoked by alias); 14 Apr 1999 06:32:40 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 6964 invoked by uid 0); 14 Apr 1999 06:32:40 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 06:32:40 -0000 Message-ID: <37143650.3E962772@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:31:44 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) References: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html Bookmarked, printed, stapled to the office wall. :-) Ok, ok, they don't let me staple things to the wall. This is great ammo for when someone asks me, "FreeBSD? Is that a Linux distribution?" -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 0:36: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (hades.riverstyx.net [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 988AE14D67; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27614; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:33:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:33:49 -0700 (PDT) From: To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Maybe y'all haven't noticed how many rabid frothing zealots exist on both sides of the fence? The difference here, is that there are actually different fences inside the BSD community... show some solidarity, brothers :-) --- tani hosokawa river styx internet On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > > My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD > > for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share > > and visibility that it may never catch up. > > Damn, it sucks so much that we're not Linux. > > Maybe we can beg Becker to write us some code so we can be just like > Linux. (That is, if you think you can match each line to a rabid frothing > zealot.) > > -- > | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | > | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | > | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 0:43:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5D014F40; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:43:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id JAA20576; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:41:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07727; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:41:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:41:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Marius Bendiksen To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) In-Reply-To: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html Great article. Keep up the good work. - Marius - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 1:31:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87F214D27; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:31:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA31913; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:29:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:29:18 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Message-ID: <19990414012918.A31874@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> <37143650.3E962772@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <37143650.3E962772@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 11:31:44PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 11:31:44PM -0700, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html > > Bookmarked, printed, stapled to the office wall. :-) Ok, ok, they > don't let me staple things to the wall. This is great ammo for when > someone asks me, "FreeBSD? Is that a Linux distribution?" This is uninformed question number 2 at our Install-A-Thons. What is uninformed question number 1 ? "Does FreeBSD run on Windows 95 ?" Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 3:16: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E525214C32; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:15:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990414101526.HSNI5752963.mta2-rme@wocker>; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:15:26 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:13:32 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz In-reply-to: <4.2.0.32.19990413162355.00c458c0@localhost> References: <19990413062214.WDWZ5752963.mta2-rme@wocker> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990414101526.HSNI5752963.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 13 Apr 99, at 16:24, Brett Glass wrote: > At 06:20 PM 4/13/99 +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > > >Talk to Jordan. He was bragging last night that he's good at milking the > >most out of stuff like that. He'll guide you along when writing this > >press release. > > With all due respect, PR is not one of Jordan's strong points. With all due respect, I think you have better things to do than jump into the middle of a positive thread and contaminate it with negative crap. Please do not reply to any of my messages in the future. I do not want my name associated with yours. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 5:33:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A64150F9; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 05:33:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip107.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.107]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49093706E; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00716; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:31:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:31:36 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Message-ID: <19990414073136.B584@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 11:16:02PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 14, 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html Excellent. More! We need more! > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your child processes are? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 6:30:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86CE115752; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 06:30:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id WAA27071; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:27:40 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37148C4C.DA3929D5@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:38:36 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) References: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html "Linus Torvalds is kind of a Cinderella story: 'Young Finnish computer science student from nowhere makes good,'" he said. By contrast, he said, all the BSD world has to offer is a decades-old code base maintained by grizzled Unixheads. " That was huge improvement over Luke/Yoda, Jordan. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "nothing better than the ability to perform cunning linguistics" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 7:44:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6D9157A7; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.225]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11248; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:41:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3714A925.37AD00CA@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:41:41 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) References: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html > You incompetent, bumbling fool. If you don't shut your yap, we're going to have thousands if not millions of clueless newbies wandering around here asking FAQs, installing FreeBSD on everything in sight (or is that everything in site?), and generally making a mess of things. Oh yeah, that's what we wanted to happen. And who are you calling "grizzled old Unixheads?" ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 9:13:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC70152B4; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <2RSVNRPF>; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:09:10 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:09:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordan K. Hubbard [mailto:jkh@zippy.cdrom.com] > Sent: 14 April 1999 07:16 > To: advocacy@freebsd.org > Cc: chat@freebsd.org > Subject: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) > > > http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-fre > ebsd.html I don't think we should pigeon-hole ourselves as a server only OS. With the performance of hardware these days the distinction is not very distinct. One of the reasons NT gets chosen in companies is familiarity with the environment from the desktop. Inside the project it's fair enough to focus the direction on producing the best server platform we can but since that drives the quality of the OS up it makes it a good desktop box as well. Publically I think we should make more universal claims as to what FreeBSD is useful for. We don't genuinely believe that Linux or NT are better desktop boxes do we? Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 9:46:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E90715519; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:46:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16642; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.32.19990414104114.00b64f00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.32 (Beta) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:44:01 -0600 To: Gregory Sutter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990413220357.D63380@001101.zer0.org> References: <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> <61307.924046009@zippy.cdrom.com> <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:03 PM 4/13/99 -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: >Brett, I think we all liked it better after you said this: >>After pondering, silently, what to do about the attitudes I've seen >>expressed on this list, I've decided that I'd best save my time, >>bandwidth, and effort by resigning from it. Yes, I'm sure you were very proud of yourself and patted yourself on the back for having quelled dissent. No critical thinking allowed here! >Unfortunately, that only lasted about two weeks, and now you're back. No, I'm not "back." I resigned from the advocacy list and still am not on it. You are seeing my messages on that list only because it is a cross-posted topic. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 9:53: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9977715497; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:52:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16717; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.32.19990414104518.00b6ac10@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.32 (Beta) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:50:27 -0600 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes, an ineffective article which claims that FreeBSD wants to cede the desktop market exclusively to Microsoft, and in the closing paragraphs is equivocal about any advantage that FreeBSD might have over Linux. --Brett Glass At 11:16 PM 4/13/99 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html > >- Jordan > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 10: 7:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from main-sd1.artnetonline.com (m0-hh-acr.artnetonline.com [195.90.219.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 159C714FC8 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuehl@lgk.de) Received: from di-036.hamburg.dialin-gw.net (di-036.hamburg.dialin-gw.net [195.90.225.36]) by main-sd1.artnetonline.com (NTMail 3.03.0013/1.abqk) with ESMTP id oa930814 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:04:17 +0200 Content-Length: 1736 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:05:44 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: kuehl@lgk.de From: kuehl@lgk.de To: paul@originative.co.uk Subject: RE: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 14-Apr-99 paul@originative.co.uk wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jordan K. Hubbard [mailto:jkh@zippy.cdrom.com] >> Sent: 14 April 1999 07:16 >> To: advocacy@freebsd.org >> Cc: chat@freebsd.org >> Subject: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) >> >> >> http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-fre >> ebsd.html > > I don't think we should pigeon-hole ourselves as a server only OS. With the > performance of hardware these days the distinction is not very distinct. > > One of the reasons NT gets chosen in companies is familiarity with the > environment from the desktop. > > Inside the project it's fair enough to focus the direction on producing the > best server platform we can but since that drives the quality of the OS up > it makes it a good desktop box as well. Publically I think we should make > more universal claims as to what FreeBSD is useful for. No. It is a splendid marketting goal, because 1. it defines a clear direction. 2. there are many people out who'd be very keen on having a real Server OS on their desktop boxes. 3. this way FreeBSD does not appear to be threatening established user environments. > We don't genuinely believe that Linux or NT are better desktop boxes do we? We do genuinely believe that FreeBSD is a better Server OS than Linux and NT are, don't we? My deep respect for this well-aimed PR effort! Lars /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Lars Gerhard Kuehl Phone: +49 40 54768010 Mobile: +49 171 9307085 Fax : +49 40 54768012 Email : kuehl@lgk.de #ifdef is your friend, and everyone's else enemy #endif /* is your friend */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 10:29: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F1D155A3 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10828; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:27:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:38:36 +0900." <37148C4C.DA3929D5@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:27:13 -0700 Message-ID: <10826.924110833@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > That was huge improvement over Luke/Yoda, Jordan. :-) Erm, I also didn't quite say that, but I guess he was paraphrasing. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 10:41: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02ED61581B for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10886; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:39:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:09:02 BST." Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:39:04 -0700 Message-ID: <10884.924111544@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't think we should pigeon-hole ourselves as a server only OS. With the > performance of hardware these days the distinction is not very distinct. I certainly don't object to the idea of making ourselves a better desktop platform, if only because a lot of us still use FreeBSD as our principal desktop box, but I still don't think it should be our primary focus. We simply don't have the resources to focus on multiple targets and I really, honestly, don't think there's a lot of future in the desktop for us anyway, at least certainly not as a major selling point. The server is what we do best and we need to focus on our strengths if we have any chance of carving out a solid niche for ourselves. Consider also the rather formidable competition we have in the desktop arena. We have Microsoft, obviously, along with Linux and BeOS, the latter offering significantly better multimedia/desktop capabilities than any of the others and promising to be a real bear to compete with once it matures. It may be considered sexy in some circles to play Iraq and martyr yourself against a set of far stronger foes, but that's just not my cup of tea. We already have a very good story to tell on the server side, along with some great customer testimonials (nobody has ever said FreeBSD was an awesome desktop, at least not in print :), and we need to play to our strengths and run with that. Let's not divide and conquer ourselves by attempting to be everything to everyone - that approach is one which, historically, has simply never worked. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 11: 6: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2DA15057 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <2RSVNRTV>; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:01:40 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:01:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordan K. Hubbard [mailto:jkh@zippy.cdrom.com] > Sent: 14 April 1999 18:39 > To: paul@originative.co.uk > Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) > > > > I don't think we should pigeon-hole ourselves as a server > only OS. With the > > performance of hardware these days the distinction is not > very distinct. > > I certainly don't object to the idea of making ourselves a better > desktop platform, if only because a lot of us still use FreeBSD as our > principal desktop box, but I still don't think it should be > our primary > focus. We simply don't have the resources to focus on > multiple targets > and I really, honestly, don't think there's a lot of future in the > desktop for us anyway, at least certainly not as a major > selling point. > The server is what we do best and we need to focus on our strengths if > we have any chance of carving out a solid niche for ourselves. I know that the server market is where we're targetting our main forces but we shouldn't put forward any negatives when playing "advocate". I agree we have to target our limited resources and that the server functionality is the thing to shoot for but it doesn't then follow that we should say publically that FreeBSD isn't going to cut it as anything else, which is the impression that is given when you say that we have "conceded that market to Microsoft". A lot of people don't see a clear distinction between desktop/server these days. If you've conceded the desktop to Microsoft then obviously (in their eyes) Microsoft is better for that platform. If it's better on that platform then it probably is on the server as well (is how their thinking will go). We should play to our strengths but not try and double guess our weaknesses up front in a defeatist manner. We probably outperform most other OS's on the desktop as well, the struggle is winning the PR battle not the technological one and we should be more pro FreeBSD in all respects not self-denigrate it in some circumstances. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 11:52: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1570815208; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.133]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA182C; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:49:37 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14432; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:49:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:49:55 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, paul@originative.co.uk, kuehl@lgk.de Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 14-Apr-99 kuehl@lgk.de wrote: > > On 14-Apr-99 paul@originative.co.uk wrote: >> I don't think we should pigeon-hole ourselves as a server only OS. With >> the performance of hardware these days the distinction is not very >> distinct. >> >> One of the reasons NT gets chosen in companies is familiarity with the >> environment from the desktop. And afterwards they still wonder how on earth they could live with that crap... Truely, I cannot imagine people using NT for it being a stable product... And for those wondering, I administered NT, 9x, NetWare, FreeBSD, Linux, AIX, and a few other weird variants... >> Inside the project it's fair enough to focus the direction on producing >> the best server platform we can but since that drives the quality of the >> OS up it makes it a good desktop box as well. Publically I think we >> should make more universal claims as to what FreeBSD is useful for. > > No. It is a splendid marketting goal, because > > 1. it defines a clear direction. Indeed, cut the crap about desktops (well not really, but lets get the attention better out towards server side) and get working on snazzy server stuff... > 2. there are many people out who'd be very keen on > having a real Server OS on their desktop boxes. True, but then we must offer a system that provides a great level of modularity from within /stand/sysinstall / the install utilities in order to reach that point of which we can say that it doesn't matter where one installs FreeBSD and for what goal since it will install only that which the user wants (this _includes_ sendmail). And yes, I have looked at this, and no I have no patches since my time is being devoted into other projects which I place on a slightly higher level. >> We don't genuinely believe that Linux or NT are better desktop boxes do >> we? > > We do genuinely believe that FreeBSD is a better Server OS than > Linux and NT are, don't we? Believe? Facts proof this. Period. The points on which we unfortunately cannot do much is providing system support in the form of drivers due to the limits of the projects availability of hardware and other resources. Mayhaps in a few months I might be able to donate a server towards the Project or at least write the drivers for it. This is something _I_ aspire to and will try to figure out how to do... I think that a lot of people I have met in the last few months have done great work for the total professional representation, e.g.: Jordan himself, although I don't always agree with him I can understand where he's coming from and going to... Dan Langille, Jim Mock, Robert Garrett, for being a stimulating force behind helping new users with FreeBSD with their efforts such as the FreeBSD Diary and the FreeBSD 'zine... Also Robert Garrett and Adrian Chadd for helping me out with the Programmer's Documentation Project. And offcourse Eivind Eklund, Mike Smith, David O'Brien, JKH, and a number of other developers for voicing their advise... Nik Clayton for the Handbook and his help with my schreds into the DocBook universe... Now I ask you (the reader in general): are we doing under for Linux, NT or any other OS out there? I think not... We have maintained a level of professional quality (with exception of interim release 3.0 offcourse) which is continuous in the entire project and which will only keep growing stabler and more professional... For this to succeed we need a core, else we get a chaos system of development like Linus has, and which is not beneficial for the Project. Therefore I ask the core team to be more of a team (again) and try to focus with that team on some future directions for FreeBSD in order to maintain (and even expand) the position of our beloved OS on the server market... I know I am interested in seeing some viewpoints in that area... Sorry for this lengthy mail, but I think it's time we stopped bickering and focused on the road which is ahead of us... We still have a long way to go and internal grudges do not work well... People are who they are, respect them for that... They try to do the best they can in their own way, but words alone don't cover it (that's the main thing I learned in the last months)... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 12:27: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 493CB14DE6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:27:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id PAA13432; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma010530; Wed, 14 Apr 99 15:21:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:21:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Benchmarks In-reply-to: To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Please -- if you choose to reply to this, just post to -advocacy. Take my name off it; I'll see it when it hits the list. Thanks! SB ] Just something that was posted to #freebsd yesterday. I think it's pretty interesting for a couple reasons I'll mention below: http://www.mindcraft.com/whitepapers/nts4rhlinux.html Summary: Windows NT outperforms Linux Red Hat in ease-of-install, web benchmarks, and file server benchmarks (using samba). What's hidden in here is that Microsoft sponsored this test (paid Mindcraft to do it, I guess). Something I found interesting. There was a post a while back that suggested that Microsoft would not allow benchmarks of its own products to be posted by 3rd parties. Did I misread this? If not, it seems mighty unfair of them to post benchmarks only when it's in their interest to do so. I wonder how FreeBSD would stack up in these tests. Enjoy... SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 12:37:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 994B014DE6 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:37:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 64160 invoked by uid 1001); 14 Apr 1999 19:34:53 -0000 Date: 14 Apr 1999 12:34:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:34:53 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Benchmarks Message-ID: <19990414123453.A64067@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Seth on Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 03:21:36PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The interesting thing thing about this test is that it provides 'evidence' to refute all the major advantages of open source software. It's almost like they were trying _too_ hard to get exactly these results. -Bill On Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 03:21:36PM -0400, Seth wrote: > [ Please -- if you choose to reply to this, just post to -advocacy. Take > my name off it; I'll see it when it hits the list. Thanks! SB ] > > Just something that was posted to #freebsd yesterday. I think it's pretty > interesting for a couple reasons I'll mention below: > > http://www.mindcraft.com/whitepapers/nts4rhlinux.html > > > Summary: Windows NT outperforms Linux Red Hat in ease-of-install, web > benchmarks, and file server benchmarks (using samba). > > What's hidden in here is that Microsoft sponsored this test (paid > Mindcraft to do it, I guess). > > Something I found interesting. There was a post a while back that > suggested that Microsoft would not allow benchmarks of its own products to > be posted by 3rd parties. Did I misread this? If not, it seems mighty > unfair of them to post benchmarks only when it's in their interest to do > so. > > I wonder how FreeBSD would stack up in these tests. > > > Enjoy... > > SB > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 12:43:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F26F15916 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:43:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id VAA19876; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:40:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by paula.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.8.8) id VAA06002; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:24:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19990414212447.18053@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:24:47 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Donald Wilde , nclayton@lehman.com Cc: jim@corp.au.triax.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Advocacy Project web site References: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> <19990412111502.P14492@lehman.com> <3711CBA5.8437FFD2@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <3711CBA5.8437FFD2@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Mon, Apr 12, 1999 at 04:32:05AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [cc -chat removed] On 1999-04-12 04:32:05 -0600, Donald Wilde wrote: > We'll be taking over the User's Groups, Press links and Gallery > sections, Nik. Wolfram can't wait to get out from under it! When we're Yep! Don will take all the PR stuff on the FreeBSD Web site and maintain it in the future ;-) Needless to say, this is a thankless job. -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 12:51:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1EAD14EA9; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:51:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: from localhost (eagle@localhost) by eagle.phc.igs.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA62799; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:45:51 GMT (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:45:49 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle To: Brett Glass Cc: Gregory Sutter , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990414104114.00b64f00@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:03 PM 4/13/99 -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > >Brett, I think we all liked it better after you said this: > > >>After pondering, silently, what to do about the attitudes I've seen > >>expressed on this list, I've decided that I'd best save my time, > >>bandwidth, and effort by resigning from it. > > Yes, I'm sure you were very proud of yourself and patted yourself > on the back for having quelled dissent. No critical thinking allowed > here! > > >Unfortunately, that only lasted about two weeks, and now you're back. > > No, I'm not "back." I resigned from the advocacy list and still am > not on it. You are seeing my messages on that list only because it is > a cross-posted topic. > > --Brett Glass > Is it just me or has an amazing amount of advocacy tasks been accomplished or in progress since the last time i saw a post from brett.. its time to quit talking and flaming each other and get to work.. Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 12:52:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F68114EA9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id PAA08188; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xmav07406; Wed, 14 Apr 99 15:49:53 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:48:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: Benchmarks In-reply-to: <19990414123453.A64067@dub.net> To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A rebuttal (interesting analysis): http://lwn.net/1999/features/MindCraft.phtml If one were to believe lwn's article, it seems that MindCraft either wasn't really playing fair, or didn't know how to perform apples-to-apples tests. SB On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Bill Swingle wrote: > The interesting thing thing about this test is that it provides > 'evidence' to refute all the major advantages of open source software. > > It's almost like they were trying _too_ hard to get exactly these > results. > > -Bill > > On Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 03:21:36PM -0400, Seth wrote: > > [ Please -- if you choose to reply to this, just post to -advocacy. Take > > my name off it; I'll see it when it hits the list. Thanks! SB ] > > > > Just something that was posted to #freebsd yesterday. I think it's pretty > > interesting for a couple reasons I'll mention below: > > > > http://www.mindcraft.com/whitepapers/nts4rhlinux.html > > > > > > Summary: Windows NT outperforms Linux Red Hat in ease-of-install, web > > benchmarks, and file server benchmarks (using samba). > > > > What's hidden in here is that Microsoft sponsored this test (paid > > Mindcraft to do it, I guess). > > > > Something I found interesting. There was a post a while back that > > suggested that Microsoft would not allow benchmarks of its own products to > > be posted by 3rd parties. Did I misread this? If not, it seems mighty > > unfair of them to post benchmarks only when it's in their interest to do > > so. > > > > I wonder how FreeBSD would stack up in these tests. > > > > > > Enjoy... > > > > SB > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > -- > -=| Bill Swingle - > -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson > -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 12:56:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA4C114EA9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:55:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za) Received: (qmail 70217 invoked by uid 1003); 14 Apr 1999 21:52:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:52:07 +0000 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Benchmarks Message-ID: <19990414215207.A64591@rucus.ru.ac.za> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Seth on Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 03:21:36PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Most of this culled from an email I sent to a local list: > Just something that was posted to #freebsd yesterday. I think it's pretty > interesting for a couple reasons I'll mention below: > > What's hidden in here is that Microsoft sponsored this test (paid > Mindcraft to do it, I guess). The numbers may seem slightly high, but there are some reasons why NT on that machine might outperform Linux [and possibly FreeBSD] (running those sorts of services). NT's integrated SMB support in it's multiprocessor kernel versus Linux's [and again, FreeBSD's] userland daemon - there might not be much in that fight really. Backed up with nice RAID drives, NT is not (that?) slow for file serving. A previous ZDnet article (http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,387766,00.html/0,4153,387766,00.html), however, claims that with a VA Research-provided quad-xeon machine gave "performance [is] in line with Windows NT 4.0 on comparable hardware" in a PC Week lab test. I'm quite sure that Apache's performance knobs probably weren't turned, and probably not the Linux high-power knobs either. (as documented in the Apache manual) Also, I've seen cited before in similar tests that NT provides a really fast function (getfile?) that doesn't have an equivalent in our world. Don't take my word on that, though. It would be interesting to know what section the bottlenecks occurred in, in each test. > Something I found interesting. There was a post a while back that > suggested that Microsoft would not allow benchmarks of its own products to > be posted by 3rd parties. Did I misread this? If not, it seems mighty > unfair of them to post benchmarks only when it's in their interest to do > so. Of course it's unfair. And, of course, Microsoft must have known beforehand that they were likely to win. It's also good business sense - you don't want nitwits benchmarking machines that are poorly configured with your OS (which would probably be as poorly configured). It would not surprise me if Microsoft provided the hardware specs, aiming at the best difference between NT and Linux hardware, memory system, and multiprocessor support. The key may be in the hardware, as the PC Week test seems to indicate. I'll leave FreeBSD's likely performance to the experts. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 13: 5:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from email.newlife.com (207-193-172-99.nlclinics.com [207.193.172.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA5614EA9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:05:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from prust@NEWLIFE.com) Received: by EMAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:02:15 -0500 Message-ID: <61C26502785FD111BFD300805FCB59127D675B@EMAIL> From: Philip Rust To: "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" Subject: check out this article Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:02:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BE86B1.B0ECD560" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE86B1.B0ECD560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Hey, I was wondering if I could get a response from you guys about this link. I know that it does not talk about FreeBSD, but Red Hat Linux instead, but I see it as relavent to the Unix and open source community in general. For example, I have been telling my boss the good things about FreeBSD and open source and Linux (hey, I'd rather use Linux than NT), and so he shows me this article as to why he wouldn't be open to any kind of free Unix. So what do you guys think about this: here's the link: http://www.mindcraft.com/whitepapers/nts4rhlinux.html I mean, is there some kind of flaw or technical bias in this article? << Microsoft Windows NT Server 4.0 and Red Hat Linux 5.2 Updated.url>> ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE86B1.B0ECD560 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=" Microsoft Windows NT Server 4.0 and Red Hat Linux 5.2 Updated.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=" Microsoft Windows NT Server 4.0 and Red Hat Linux 5.2 Updated.url" Content-Location: ATT-0-A7D48702DAF1D211801200104B32AD45-M icrosof.url [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.mindcraft.com/whitepapers/nts4rhlinux.html Modified=F0711DC4B186BE0138 ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE86B1.B0ECD560-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 13:20:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from post.cis.smu.edu (post.cis.smu.edu [129.119.64.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC7C15756 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:20:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from prust@post.smu.edu) Received: by post.cis.smu.edu (Smail-3.2.0.96 1997-Jun-2 #26) id ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:18:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:18:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Philip Rust Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <10826.924110833@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I like the Luke/Yoda idea.. It's an accurate analogy On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > That was huge improvement over Luke/Yoda, Jordan. :-) > > Erm, I also didn't quite say that, but I guess he was paraphrasing. :) > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 13:32:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ns.jellydonut.com (unknown [209.31.225.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F2614C21 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@positronic.net) Received: from ns (ns.jellydonut.com [209.31.225.33]) by ns.jellydonut.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA10562 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:30:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:30:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Snedegar X-Sender: ryan@ns Reply-To: Ryan Snedegar To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Benchmarks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I believe that the stipulation of no benchmarking applies to MS SQL server. I don't recall any such ban in the NT Server License itself, but let me go dig up a copy and re-read it. /. is having a field day with this one, something like 600 messages have been posted in regards to it... Independant testing results (ie, not paid for, run by a non involved third party, with full disclosure of methodology, hardware, software, and benchmark settings used) are the only way to get anything resembling fair results. On the other hand, anyone who wants to run tests vs. NT now has a nice set of parameter to tune with. Ryan Snedegar ryan@positronic.net You like cats too? Let's trade recipes!!! On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Seth wrote: > [ Please -- if you choose to reply to this, just post to -advocacy. Take > my name off it; I'll see it when it hits the list. Thanks! SB ] > > Just something that was posted to #freebsd yesterday. I think it's pretty > interesting for a couple reasons I'll mention below: > > http://www.mindcraft.com/whitepapers/nts4rhlinux.html > > > Summary: Windows NT outperforms Linux Red Hat in ease-of-install, web > benchmarks, and file server benchmarks (using samba). > > What's hidden in here is that Microsoft sponsored this test (paid > Mindcraft to do it, I guess). > > Something I found interesting. There was a post a while back that > suggested that Microsoft would not allow benchmarks of its own products to > be posted by 3rd parties. Did I misread this? If not, it seems mighty > unfair of them to post benchmarks only when it's in their interest to do > so. > > I wonder how FreeBSD would stack up in these tests. > > > Enjoy... > > SB > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 13:34:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from corp.au.triax.com (slwag2p04.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF3514C4C for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:34:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@corp.au.triax.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by corp.au.triax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21372; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:32:06 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:32:05 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Philip Rust Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: check out this article Message-ID: <19990415063205.D20607@corp.au.triax.com> Reply-To: jim@corp.au.triax.com References: <61C26502785FD111BFD300805FCB59127D675B@EMAIL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <61C26502785FD111BFD300805FCB59127D675B@EMAIL> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 at 15:02:14 -0500, Philip Rust wrote: > Hey, I was wondering if I could get a response from you guys about > this link. I know that it does not talk about FreeBSD, but Red Hat > Linux instead, but I see it as relavent to the Unix and open source > community in general. For example, I have been telling my boss the > good things about FreeBSD and open source and Linux (hey, I'd rather > use Linux than NT), and so he shows me this article as to why he > wouldn't be open to any kind of free Unix. So what do you guys think > about this: here's the link: > > http://www.mindcraft.com/whitepapers/nts4rhlinux.html > > I mean, is there some kind of flaw or technical bias in this article? I don't know.. the testing was sponsored by Microsoft themselves. Now I'm not saying that there is, but given their business practices I wouldn't be totally shocked. Btw, doesn't Microsoft get pissed and threaten lawsuits if people publish results of NT benchmarks? Oh wait, I guess that doesn't apply to ones they sponsor (wonder who's gonna come out on top in those?) ;) IMO, the only way I'd believe those results is if I was standing in the lab watching it. Other than that, as I said.. given Microsoft's business practices, I wouldn't weigh to heavily on any test results sponsored by them. Just my $0.02. -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@corp.au.triax.com ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Triax Internet Services http://www.triax.com/ / \ The personal: http://www.triax.com/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 13:45:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA1315890 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:45:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA029922481; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:41:21 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:41:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Brett Glass Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990413192202.04e44950@localhost> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > I haven't done any PR on the lists. Jordan proclaimed, ex Cathedra, > that any PR other than what he advocated (i.e. virtually none) > should be discouraged. Actually, I believe only your half-assed ideas were globally rejected. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 13:57:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73AAC158DA for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA030353196; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:53:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:53:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Brett Glass Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD > for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share > and visibility that it may never catch up. Bitching and whining is 'effective pr'? Instead of working on ports junk, I'm typing this mail. I think I'll refrain from this thread from here on out, and do something productive. I'd encourage you to do something similar and go back to that rock you crawled back from under(or God forbid, _do_ something for the project.) - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 13:57:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F755158CD for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:57:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19425; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.32.19990414145409.04ea53b0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.32 (Beta) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:55:01 -0600 To: Bill Fumerola From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.32.19990413192202.04e44950@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:41 PM 4/14/99 -0400, Bill Fumerola wrote: >Actually, I believe only your half-assed ideas were globally rejected. My ideas -- which were and are good -- were rejected not globally but by you and others of Jordan's syncophants. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 14: 2:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E75AC158D0 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:02:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-045.thuntek.net [207.66.52.45]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA28080; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:59:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37150160.5735451B@thuntek.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:58:08 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wolfram Schneider Cc: nclayton@lehman.com, jim@corp.au.triax.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Advocacy Project web site References: <19990410112459.A8358@corp.au.triax.com> <19990412111502.P14492@lehman.com> <3711CBA5.8437FFD2@thuntek.net> <19990414212447.18053@panke.de.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It may be thankless (I don't think so), but it will get results for the project. Since I don't have the patience to diddle bit-twiddling drivers any more, this is something I _can_ contribute and enjoy doing. Best will come when I get them to write something I suggest... Besides, we already have 3 of us on it, and Jim and Rob are beating me to it most of the time. My job is to get _more_ things printed. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 14:13:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570361580F for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:13:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA031014197; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:09:57 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:09:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Brett Glass Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990414145409.04ea53b0@localhost> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > >Actually, I believe only your half-assed ideas were globally rejected. > > My ideas -- which were and are good -- were rejected not globally but > by you and others of Jordan's syncophants. (1) I don't post to please Jordan or anyone else. I post because I try _productive_ dialog, a concept that you can't grasp. (2) When I have an idea, instead of crying and saying THIS IS YOUR FAULT. I either fix[i] or make[ii] it. (3) It's 'sycophants', not 'syncophants'. If you're going to impress us with your broad and sexy vocabulary, please do it right. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - [i] - Numerous ports PRs, proposals, and eventually commits. [ii] - 'pkg_add -r' was feature that I whined to jkh about and he just told me that nothing would get done by my bitching to him. I then wrote and committed the feature. It is a modest and fairly trivial feature, but I actually did something with my idea. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 14:28:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D9E158FA; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:28:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA09688; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id NAA03720; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:11:46 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id OAA26722; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:10:58 -0600 Message-ID: <3714F652.338C50DA@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:10:58 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eagle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eagle wrote: > > Is it just me or has an amazing amount of advocacy tasks been accomplished > or in progress since the last time i saw a post from brett.. It's not just you, progress is being made. > its time to quit talking and flaming each other and get to work.. ^back As Jordan has. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 15:22:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF5614E59 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14510; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:19:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:19:50 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: paul@originative.co.uk, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) In-Reply-To: <10884.924111544@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > We already have a very good story to tell on the server side, along > with some great customer testimonials (nobody has ever said FreeBSD > was an awesome desktop, at least not in print :), and we need to play > to our strengths and run with that. I beg to differ. Okay, it's not print but... http://www.daemonnews.org/199810/deskbsd.html has me talking about how FreeBSD makes a great workstation/desktop for scientists/researchers. Of course my machine also acts as a server and works great. :-) I do think we could push to be more visible in the science/research desktop area because the tools that most of us in this area use (LaTeX, C, Fortran etc) are all available. Heck there's even a biology section in the ports! :-) I'm not saying abandon the server though. :-) Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 15:46:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35079157C5 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:46:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14656 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:43:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:43:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: sites running FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know Don Wilde has been trying to compile sites that use FreeBSD as their servers. I just received one of those e-cards from www.bluemountain.com so I decided to check what they use with Netcraft (www.netcraft.com). According to Netcraft they also use FreeBSD w/ Apache-1.2.6. Add 'em to the list Don! Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 15:51:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 28C26157C5 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:51:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 69320 invoked by uid 1001); 14 Apr 1999 22:49:17 -0000 Date: 14 Apr 1999 15:49:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:49:17 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990414154916.A69256@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Brett Taylor on Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 04:43:47PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I added it to the page :) http://www.dub.net/bigboys/ -Bill On Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 04:43:47PM -0600, Brett Taylor wrote: > I know Don Wilde has been trying to compile sites that use FreeBSD as > their servers. I just received one of those e-cards from > www.bluemountain.com so I decided to check what they use with Netcraft > (www.netcraft.com). According to Netcraft they also use FreeBSD w/ > Apache-1.2.6. Add 'em to the list Don! -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 16:40:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from finalpath.ddns.org (24.64.202.108.bc.wave.home.com [24.64.202.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBC214C3C for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:40:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kayo@finalpath.ddns.org) Received: from localhost (kayo@localhost) by finalpath.ddns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31797 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:37:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Kayo To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Format of www.freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have been hanging around #freebsd efnet and undernet for sometimes now. Even though there are lots of resources at www.freebsd.org, people still come into the channel asking same questions over and over again. May be people are lazy to read (most of them are) or may be they don't know where to look. I think we need some improvements in www.freebsd.org's format to enhance the usefulness of ever resourceful www.freebsd.org. I think it's essential that we provide simple and informative index page. Thanks for reading. Be easy on me as this is my first time writing to advocacy. From Arp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 16:48: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from madcap.apk.net (madcap.apk.net [207.54.158.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE3414D79 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:47:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ipswitch@apk.net) Received: from CARBON (as1-icg-13.cleveland.apk.net [207.54.186.23]) by madcap.apk.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/apk.981124) with SMTP id TAA20978 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:27:01 -0400 (EDT) From: ipswitch@apk.net (Stuart Krivis) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:30:13 GMT Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc. Reply-To: ipswitch@apk.net Message-ID: <37152173.3697096@mail.apk.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:14:57 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: >> My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD >> for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share >> and visibility that it may never catch up. > >Damn, it sucks so much that we're not Linux. =46reeBSD isn't a version of Linux? You mean all this time I've been..... :-) > >Maybe we can beg Becker to write us some code so we can be just like >Linux. (That is, if you think you can match each line to a rabid = frothing >zealot.) RedGNU/BSDware? FreeHat? There are rabid frothing zealots everywhere.=20 I have felt that Brett goes too far, but you go just as far in the other direction. How about telling people why they should use FreeBSD, instead of why something else sucks? "Well, Linux is a very nice unix-clone, but...." Then proceed to tell about FreeBSD being a descendant of 4.4BSD. Tell about how FreeBSD has only one distro, and a "central committee" guiding the direction, and that this can confer stability and coherence to the OS. Tell about the ports system and how it installs the package you want, plus all the dependencies. Tell about how FreeBSD allows you to buy any Unix book, instead of a specific book on Linux. (And a RH book may not do you much good if you have debian....) You know the drill..... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 17:23:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BCF152CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:23:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA21588; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:21:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:21:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: Bill Swingle Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990414154916.A69256@dub.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Though not all commercial entities, what about the following? www.apache.org www.daemonnews.org www.dignus.com www.freebsdrocks.com www.geek-girl.com www.hungry.com www.openldap.org www.unix-vs-nt.org www.watson.com And believe it or not. :) www.netcraft.com Here's one I would have thought for sure would be running FreeBSD. www.freebsddiary.com -steve On 14 Apr 1999, Bill Swingle wrote: # I added it to the page :) # # http://www.dub.net/bigboys/ # # -Bill # # On Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 04:43:47PM -0600, Brett Taylor wrote: # > I know Don Wilde has been trying to compile sites that use FreeBSD as # > their servers. I just received one of those e-cards from # > www.bluemountain.com so I decided to check what they use with Netcraft # > (www.netcraft.com). According to Netcraft they also use FreeBSD w/ # > Apache-1.2.6. Add 'em to the list Don! # # -- # -=| Bill Swingle - # -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson # -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 17:47: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B7FB14F90 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:47:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 24314 invoked by alias); 15 Apr 1999 00:44:41 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 24285 invoked by uid 0); 15 Apr 1999 00:44:40 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 00:44:40 -0000 Message-ID: <37153640.D419C366@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:43:44 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) References: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> <37143650.3E962772@uswest.net> <19990414012918.A31874@ontario.mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Grosch wrote: > On Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 11:31:44PM -0700, Darren Pilgrim wrote: >> "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >>> http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html >> >> Bookmarked, printed, stapled to the office wall. :-) Ok, ok, they >> don't let me staple things to the wall. This is great ammo for when >> someone asks me, "FreeBSD? Is that a Linux distribution?" > > This is uninformed question number 2 at our Install-A-Thons. What is > uninformed question number 1 ? > > "Does FreeBSD run on Windows 95 ?" It runs on Windows, you install it with the fdisk program. :-) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 18:18: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8148214FDF for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 10408 invoked by alias); 15 Apr 1999 01:15:38 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 10387 invoked by uid 0); 15 Apr 1999 01:15:37 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 01:15:37 -0000 Message-ID: <37153D81.7D4B88CE@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:14:41 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) References: <10826.924110833@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >> That was huge improvement over Luke/Yoda, Jordan. :-) > > Erm, I also didn't quite say that, but I guess he was paraphrasing. :) Does anyone have an address for the Luke/Yoda comparison? Or perhaps someone can tell me when/where it was said if it was on these lists? -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 18:23:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B11CC14BEF; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:23:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA24398; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:51:17 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA25896; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:51:15 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990415105115.H23745@lemis.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:51:15 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Darren Pilgrim , jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) References: <68819.924070562@zippy.cdrom.com> <37143650.3E962772@uswest.net> <19990414012918.A31874@ontario.mooseriver.com> <37153640.D419C366@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <37153640.D419C366@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 05:43:44PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 14 April 1999 at 17:43:44 -0700, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Josef Grosch wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 13, 1999 at 11:31:44PM -0700, Darren Pilgrim wrote: >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >>>> http://www.internetworld.com/print/current/webdev/19990412-freebsd.html >>> >>> Bookmarked, printed, stapled to the office wall. :-) Ok, ok, they >>> don't let me staple things to the wall. This is great ammo for when >>> someone asks me, "FreeBSD? Is that a Linux distribution?" >> >> This is uninformed question number 2 at our Install-A-Thons. What is >> uninformed question number 1 ? >> >> "Does FreeBSD run on Windows 95 ?" > > It runs on Windows, you install it with the fdisk program. :-) "Sure you can run FreeBSD on Windows 95. After that, you'll never run Windows again". Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 21:24:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C81615016 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-168.thuntek.net [207.66.52.168]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id WAA24854; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:21:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371568F9.E69A34BB@thuntek.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:20:09 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Taylor Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, (sub rosa) they just sent a $25K donation to the FreeBSD Project. Buy some cards, guys, and let them know you appreciate their support! Evidently BillyG tried to muscle into their market with some of his typical roach-like tactics, and they won in court! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 21:31:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A42915016 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:31:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA07720; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:28:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:28:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Steve Price Cc: Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Steve Price wrote: > Though not all commercial entities, what about the following? > > www.apache.org > www.daemonnews.org > www.dignus.com > www.freebsdrocks.com > www.geek-girl.com > www.hungry.com > www.openldap.org > www.unix-vs-nt.org > www.watson.com Utterly irrelevant from an advocacy point of view, but since that last domain name is of interest to me, also www.watson.org :-). watson.com was taken when I tried like 4 years ago when I first got watson.org, and looks like it's changed hands a few times since then. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 21:39:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4469814C03 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:39:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id OAA03255; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:34:34 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19990415143431.04404@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:34:31 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Donald Wilde Cc: Brett Taylor , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: <371568F9.E69A34BB@thuntek.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <371568F9.E69A34BB@thuntek.net>; from Donald Wilde on Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 10:20:09PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm, I don't speak Latin. Who's they? Do you mean the greeting kind or the zappable kind? Is that the same they as before? Interesting idea, an insect with muscles :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 22:18:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E71114F45 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:18:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.89]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA27CC; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:16:14 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15759; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:16:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:16:17 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Seth Subject: Re: Benchmarks Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 14-Apr-99 Seth wrote: > A rebuttal (interesting analysis): > > http://lwn.net/1999/features/MindCraft.phtml > > If one were to believe lwn's article, it seems that MindCraft either > wasn't really playing fair, or didn't know how to perform > apples-to-apples > tests. Ehm, for all your info, Mindcraft cannot be trusted IMHO for the simple fact they that tested NetWare 5 and NT and NT still won in a lot of areas which experienced NT and Novell admins know not to be true... I'd have to dig up Novell's letter/webpage about this, but it seems Mindcraft likes to play dirty in this ballgame... At least, that's the experience I had thus far... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 22:45:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6FE150DB for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:45:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id OAA12953; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:43:11 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37157B65.9D724380@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:38:45 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) References: <10826.924110833@zippy.cdrom.com> <37153D81.7D4B88CE@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > >> That was huge improvement over Luke/Yoda, Jordan. :-) > > > > Erm, I also didn't quite say that, but I guess he was paraphrasing. :) > > Does anyone have an address for the Luke/Yoda comparison? Or perhaps > someone can tell me when/where it was said if it was on these lists? Hey, Jordan, what was it you said about things coming back to haunt you? :-) I had it as tagline for some time one or two months ago, I think. It was a message originally from Jordan, and I *think* it was in this list. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "nothing better than the ability to perform cunning linguistics" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 22:47:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B33150DB for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:47:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: from outpost.co.nz (b001-m006-p018.wgtn.clear.net.nz [203.167.241.82]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id RAA06301; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:45:32 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <199904150545.RAA06301@fep1-orange.clear.net.nz> Received: (qmail 5599 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1999 03:24:14 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.acme.gen.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by evil-smelling-bugger.acme.gen.nz with SMTP; 15 Apr 1999 03:24:14 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:23:52 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) Reply-To: crh@outpost.co.nz In-reply-to: <19990415105115.H23745@lemis.com> References: <37153640.D419C366@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Wed, Apr 14, 1999 at 05:43:44PM -0700 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "Does FreeBSD run on Windows 95 ?" FreeBSD doesn't run on Windows 95, it tramples! -- C. -- Craig Harding Head of Postproduction, Outpost Digital Media Ltd "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 22:57: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46991153C1; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:56:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA06571; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:52:46 -0700 (PDT) From: rick hamell Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More of my totally ineffective PR efforts in action. :-) In-Reply-To: <199904150545.RAA06361@fep1-orange.clear.net.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > "Does FreeBSD run on Windows 95 ?" > > FreeBSD doesn't run on Windows 95, it tramples! Windows 95? Hmmm... can't say that I've ever heard of it... oh wait, I remeber something in the news a while back about that... Bob... um... what'shisname and Windows 95. :) Rick ---- "Religion exists because man can't belive that he's nothing more then a random accident." http://www.grendal.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 14 23: 0:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0547C15338 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13481 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:58:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: More advocacy... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:58:30 -0700 Message-ID: <13479.924155910@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/down_the_toilet?id=3714d4820 (ignore the odd URL and the even odder title of the article ;) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 2: 5: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84A1914BCC for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:04:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <2RSVNSDJ>; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:00:41 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: sprice@hiwaay.net, unfurl@dub.net Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: sites running FreeBSD Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:00:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Price [mailto:sprice@hiwaay.net] > Sent: 15 April 1999 01:21 > To: Bill Swingle > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD > > > Though not all commercial entities, what about the following? > > www.apache.org > www.daemonnews.org > www.dignus.com > www.freebsdrocks.com > www.geek-girl.com > www.hungry.com > www.openldap.org > www.unix-vs-nt.org > www.watson.com > > And believe it or not. :) > > www.netcraft.com I believe it, I set everything up for them so it's no surprise that they're a FreeBSD shop. I think one of the main reasons imdb chose FreeBSD is because Rob Hartill is an old college friend of mine and that spun off into the apache group (I was active in that for a while) which is why they are so FreeBSD influenced as well. Quite often the most effective advocacy is to just go out there and convince people to use it but be objective not fanatical. None of the above would have used FreeBSD just on the basis of evangelical rhetoric but they could all see the benefits of FreeBSD when they were put forward objectively. Once people can be convinced to try it they rarely find they're not supremely happy with it. Paul Richards Originative Solutions Ltd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 3:30:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D012A14E9F for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:30:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14694 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:28:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: http://www.freebsd.org/features.html Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:28:26 -0700 Message-ID: <14692.924172106@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Whatever happened to the plans to update this - Don? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 8:30: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE021594E for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:29:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14011; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37160550.699BF927@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:27:12 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: Steve Price , Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Steve Price wrote: > > > Though not all commercial entities, what about the following? > > > > www.apache.org > > www.daemonnews.org > > www.dignus.com > > www.freebsdrocks.com > > www.geek-girl.com > > www.hungry.com > > www.openldap.org > > www.unix-vs-nt.org > > www.watson.com > > Utterly irrelevant from an advocacy point of view No, I'd say several of these might be relevant from an advocacy point of view. Apache in particular has become a well-known "brand," and their use of FreeBSD on their primary web server is quite a kudo. The other non-FreeBSD sites fall into this same category, with the caveat of being somewhat less well known. This would include dignus, watson, and openldap certainly, and probably hungry as well. Sites that are run for BSD advocacy, or against Microsoft, are not that surprising. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 9: 6:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DC914CCB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:06:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA10882; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:04:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:04:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Wes Peters Cc: Steve Price , Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <37160550.699BF927@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Robert Watson wrote: > > > > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Steve Price wrote: > > > > > Though not all commercial entities, what about the following? > > > > > > www.apache.org > > > www.daemonnews.org > > > www.dignus.com > > > www.freebsdrocks.com > > > www.geek-girl.com > > > www.hungry.com > > > www.openldap.org > > > www.unix-vs-nt.org > > > www.watson.com > > > > Utterly irrelevant from an advocacy point of view > > No, I'd say several of these might be relevant from an advocacy point > of view. Apache in particular has become a well-known "brand," and > their use of FreeBSD on their primary web server is quite a kudo. > The other non-FreeBSD sites fall into this same category, with the > caveat of being somewhat less well known. This would include dignus, > watson, and openldap certainly, and probably hungry as well. > > Sites that are run for BSD advocacy, or against Microsoft, are not > that surprising. ;^) I think I either mistyped or you misinterpretted: I was not referring to his list, but my unrelated comment on the list. :) I have watson.org, they have watson.com. Both run FreeBSD, and people probably have heard of watson.com although not watson.org. I agree entirely that prominent domain names running FreeBSD is an excellent advocacy point; it's even better when they slap a "FreeBSD" stamp on their front page, of course. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 9:12: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B00914CCB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:11:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id MAA10550; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xmas21765; Thu, 15 Apr 99 11:47:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:40:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: User base statistics? To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know this has been asked before, and I know there's more than one way to count systems... but I really need to know how many FreeBSD systems are out there for an advocacy project I'm working on right now. Some rough estimate would be ok, as long as it's backed up by some solid statistics. I'm thinking of the following: "We have xxxx registered users, which we feel represents yyyy to zzzz percent of the total FreeBSD population." I'm not looking for specific TYPES of servers (web, ftp, whatever)... I'm looking for a total count of FreeBSD systems out there -- including those not being used to provide any services, and those that might not be directly Internet-connected. I remember seeing numbers SOMEWHERE, but I'm getting senile. Any pointers would be appreciated. Please respond via private mail; I don't want to clutter up the list. If a large number of people are interested, I'll post a summary. Thanks, SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 9:33:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53A51530C for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:33:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-046.thuntek.net [207.66.52.46]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id KAA05786; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:30:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371613E8.72D0A8C5@thuntek.net> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:29:28 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Paul, one of the things in my advocacy charter is to showcase commercial sites which use FreeBSD. Would you mind if we correspond off-line and build this into a webpage / article / press release on Netcraft and their reasons for choosing it? We _want_ rational corporate decisions to highlight, because I/we agree with you that it's the most effective advocacy there is. Thanks for speaking up! That goes for others of you who are building / have built important or innovative sites. All I need is a few quotable things like Paul's post and maybe a few pictures and screenshots. Needless to say, I also need the site owner's permission to crow publicly, but, given that, I can run really hard with it and get us a lot of good press. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 12: 1:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F95015352 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 85287 invoked by uid 1001); 15 Apr 1999 18:58:58 -0000 Date: 15 Apr 1999 11:58:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:58:58 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Slashdot Message-ID: <19990415115858.A85264@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The article from the last BAFUG meeting that was posted this morning made it's way to Slashdot a little bit ago. Interesting comments from Rob Malda: "An anonymous reader sent us an article about FreeBSD, and life in Linux's Shadow. Interesting article about the culture difference between Linux and FreeBSD users. Its a good one for you FreeBSD fans and you curious Linux users alike." Here's the interesting part: "I wish more BSD stuff came down the pipe here, but Linux just has the vast majority of the submissions here too." Let's make his wish come true! I guess I was under the impression that most attempts at getting BSD stuff posted had failed. Hopefully this is really how he feels. -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 12: 8:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E03D14E50 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:08:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA047783076; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:04:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:04:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More advocacy... In-Reply-To: <13479.924155910@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/down_the_toilet?id=3714d4820 > > (ignore the odd URL and the even odder title of the article ;) Correction: There are 150+ developers who can commit patches... blah blah blah. Just a nit. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 12:34:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9491814FC7 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:33:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990415193222.UBIG5596385.mta1-rme@wocker>; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:32:22 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Bill Swingle Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:30:48 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Slashdot Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990415115858.A85264@dub.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990415193222.UBIG5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 15 Apr 99, at 11:58, Bill Swingle wrote: > Here's the interesting part: > > "I wish more BSD stuff came down the pipe here, but Linux just > has the vast majority of the submissions here too." > > Let's make his wish come true! I guess I was under the impression that > most attempts at getting BSD stuff posted had failed. Hopefully this is > really how he feels. FWIW: I have had private communication with someone from slashdot after having expressed sentiments that slashdot seems to be very linux oriented. I was given the same impression as that which can be gleaned from the quote you pasted. If we send it, it will be published. They have put stuff up about The FreeBSD 'zine (http://www.freebsdzine.org/). Twice I think. In a similar vein, http://www.linuxtoday.com has included an article I submitted about my web site. So despite the name, they are not adverse to FreeBSD article. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 13:35:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E12F914D06 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-149.thuntek.net [207.66.52.149]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA04460; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37164C94.628E087B@thuntek.net> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:31:16 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: Bill Swingle , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot References: <19990415193222.UBIG5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From what I have seen, well-presented articles and news tips _have_ been printed most of the time. Occasionally they drop one, but we all have our spurious alpha particles to blame for RAM failures... :-) -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 14:17:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84BBA14E46 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:17:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA58484; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:15:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:58:58 PDT." <19990415115858.A85264@dub.net> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:15:46 -0700 Message-ID: <58482.924210946@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Here's the interesting part: > > "I wish more BSD stuff came down the pipe here, but Linux just > has the vast majority of the submissions here too." That's kinda weird since I sent Rob Malda a short "press release" for The Matrix and not only did he not publish it, he never responded to my queries asking why. That doesn't exactly send the message that more BSD stuff coming down the pipe is especially welcome. :-( - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 14:20: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CEC015110 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 88282 invoked by uid 1001); 15 Apr 1999 21:17:28 -0000 Date: 15 Apr 1999 14:17:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:17:28 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot Message-ID: <19990415141728.A88258@dub.net> References: <19990415115858.A85264@dub.net> <58482.924210946@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <58482.924210946@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 02:15:46PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 02:15:46PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Here's the interesting part: > > > > "I wish more BSD stuff came down the pipe here, but Linux just > > has the vast majority of the submissions here too." > > That's kinda weird since I sent Rob Malda a short "press release" for > The Matrix and not only did he not publish it, he never responded to > my queries asking why. That doesn't exactly send the message that > more BSD stuff coming down the pipe is especially welcome. :-( > > - Jordan I remember you saying that. That is why I was surprised at Rob's comment. -Bill -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 14:20:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4337A14E46 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:20:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA58506; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:18:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Bill Fumerola Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More advocacy... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:04:36 EDT." Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:18:12 -0700 Message-ID: <58504.924211092@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey, you don't have to correct *me* on this one, I know that. Better to figure out how the guy got the erroneous information in the first place since it certainly didn't come from me. :) - Jordan > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/down_the_toilet?id=3714d4820 > > > > (ignore the odd URL and the even odder title of the article ;) > > Correction: There are 150+ developers who can commit patches... blah blah > blah. > > Just a nit. > > - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - > - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 14:23:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA981519B for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:23:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA050351182; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:19:42 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:19:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More advocacy... In-Reply-To: <58504.924211092@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Hey, you don't have to correct *me* on this one, I know that. Better > to figure out how the guy got the erroneous information in the first > place since it certainly didn't come from me. :) The web site said 100 and now says 150, so you've got me. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 15:44:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC4E14D30 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:44:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA23243; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA09349; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:40:56 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id QAA05443; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:40:18 -0600 Message-ID: <37166AD2.5143A6A2@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:40:18 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: Steve Price , Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > > On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > Robert Watson wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Steve Price wrote: > > > > > > > Though not all commercial entities, what about the following? > > > > > > > > www.apache.org > > > > www.daemonnews.org > > > > www.dignus.com > > > > www.freebsdrocks.com > > > > www.geek-girl.com > > > > www.hungry.com > > > > www.openldap.org > > > > www.unix-vs-nt.org > > > > www.watson.com > > > > > > Utterly irrelevant from an advocacy point of view > > > > No, I'd say several of these might be relevant from an advocacy point > > of view. > > I think I either mistyped or you misinterpretted: I was not referring to > his list, but my unrelated comment on the list. :) I have watson.org, > they have watson.com. Both run FreeBSD, and people probably have heard of > watson.com although not watson.org. Oh. I see we're in violent agreement then. ;^) > I agree entirely that prominent > domain names running FreeBSD is an excellent advocacy point; it's even > better when they slap a "FreeBSD" stamp on their front page, of course. Yes, we're in complete agreement. I guess we'd better start a major flamefest about who is more right, or who was right first. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 16:23:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19D114E2A for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA13396 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:20:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:20:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Powered by FreeBSD logo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Two comments-- First, it took me a heck of a long time to find the logos on the FreeBSD page. I knew they were there somewhere, but figuring out I had to go to the Galley to download a logo to put on a page was painful :-). Maybe we could add a link on the front page, or just an Advocacy link that would include them? Second, many of the logos assume a white background as they are transparent gifs. Anyone have one that assumes a black background, or no background? I'm not sure I like the ones with the big yellow bar so much, but do like the ones with Chuck taller than the bar. Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 17: 8:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from corp.au.triax.com (slwag1p31.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D1114A2F for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:08:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@corp.au.triax.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by corp.au.triax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05858; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:06:07 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:06:07 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Robert Watson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Powered by FreeBSD logo Message-ID: <19990416100606.A5814@corp.au.triax.com> Reply-To: jim@corp.au.triax.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 at 19:20:57 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > Two comments-- > > First, it took me a heck of a long time to find the logos on the > FreeBSD page. I knew they were there somewhere, but figuring out I > had to go to the Galley to download a logo to put on a page was > painful :-). Maybe we could add a link on the front page, or just > an Advocacy link that would include them? > The new advocacy site will take care of this. We should have it ready to go any day now. The image gallery is already done.. you can see what we've got for the site so far at http://www.ghis.net/~jim/FreeBSD/ until our new home is ready. > Second, many of the logos assume a white background as they are > transparent gifs. Anyone have one that assumes a black background, > or no background? I'm not sure I like the ones with the big yellow > bar so much, but do like the ones with Chuck taller than the bar. > If anyone has or decides to make any of these, let me know about them and I'll add them to the gallery. -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@corp.au.triax.com ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Triax Internet Services http://www.triax.com/ / \ The personal: http://www.triax.com/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 17:48:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FFD3152DC for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:48:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA14417; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:45:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:45:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: Robert Watson Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Robert Watson wrote: # I think I either mistyped or you misinterpretted: I was not referring to # his list, but my unrelated comment on the list. :) I have watson.org, # they have watson.com. Both run FreeBSD, and people probably have heard of # watson.com although not watson.org. I agree entirely that prominent # domain names running FreeBSD is an excellent advocacy point; it's even # better when they slap a "FreeBSD" stamp on their front page, of course. Actually I screwed up there. watson.com runs IIS. I mytyped that entry in my list. I had intended to type watson.org. Sorry for the confusion. # Robert N Watson # # robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ # PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C # # Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ # TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ # Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ # # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 20:11: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3063D14DEB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:11:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip107.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.107]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A37337085; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08547; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:08:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:08:58 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Bill Swingle Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slashdot Message-ID: <19990415220858.H3986@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990415115858.A85264@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <19990415115858.A85264@dub.net>; from Bill Swingle on Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 11:58:58AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 15, 1999, Bill Swingle wrote: > The article from the last BAFUG meeting that was posted this morning > made it's way to Slashdot a little bit ago. Interesting comments from > Rob Malda: > > "An anonymous reader sent us an article about FreeBSD, and life > in Linux's Shadow. Interesting article about the culture > difference between Linux and FreeBSD users. Its a good one for > you FreeBSD fans and you curious Linux users alike." This couldn't possibly be by anyone but me, because I submitted a URL just seconds after I got it from Jordan, and I have an account on slashdot. > Let's make his wish come true! I guess I was under the impression that > most attempts at getting BSD stuff posted had failed. Hopefully this is > really how he feels. I agree. > > -Bill -- Chris Costello DYNAMIC LINKING ERROR: Your mistake is now everywhere. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 20:15:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BBA914DEB for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA60799; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: chris@calldei.com Cc: Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:08:58 CDT." <19990415220858.H3986@holly.dyndns.org> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:13:14 -0700 Message-ID: <60797.924232394@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This couldn't possibly be by anyone but me, because I > submitted a URL just seconds after I got it from Jordan, and I > have an account on slashdot. Cool, perhaps you could submit this to him then since my own attempts have failed completely. :-) http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/matrix.html (this is just a copy of the original message by Charles which started it all - I'd hope/assume that it would be cleaned up a bit before posting, as I did for the entry I submitted). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 20:24:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53BB514F5C for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:24:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip107.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.107]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2590C37099; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08629; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:22:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:22:42 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chris@calldei.com, Bill Swingle , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot Message-ID: <19990415222242.J3986@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <19990415220858.H3986@holly.dyndns.org> <60797.924232394@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4us In-Reply-To: <60797.924232394@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 08:13:14PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 15, 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > This couldn't possibly be by anyone but me, because I > > submitted a URL just seconds after I got it from Jordan, and I > > have an account on slashdot. > > Cool, perhaps you could submit this to him then since my own attempts > have failed completely. :-) > > http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/matrix.html You might wanna make it into a text/plain type file, or do: s//>/g > > (this is just a copy of the original message by Charles which started > it all - I'd hope/assume that it would be cleaned up a bit before > posting, as I did for the entry I submitted). > > - Jordan > -- Chris Costello 'Profanity: the universal programming language' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 21:14:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71A2152E0 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA46793; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:11:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:11:52 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Seth Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User base statistics? Message-ID: <19990415211152.B46346@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Seth on Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 11:40:00AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 11:40:00AM -0400, Seth wrote: > I know this has been asked before, and I know there's more than one way to > count systems... but I really need to know how many FreeBSD systems are > out there for an advocacy project I'm working on right now. > > Some rough estimate would be ok, as long as it's backed up by some solid > statistics. I'm thinking of the following: > > "We have xxxx registered users, which we feel represents yyyy to zzzz > percent of the total FreeBSD population." > > I'm not looking for specific TYPES of servers (web, ftp, whatever)... I'm > looking for a total count of FreeBSD systems out there -- including those > not being used to provide any services, and those that might not be > directly Internet-connected. > > I remember seeing numbers SOMEWHERE, but I'm getting senile. Any pointers > would be appreciated. > > Please respond via private mail; I don't want to clutter up the list. If > a large number of people are interested, I'll post a summary. I run the FreeBSD Counter Page which is at; http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounterPage.html As of a few minutes ago we have 37,849 registered users in our database. This database is shared with the FreeBSD project and Walnut Creek CDROM. I must admit that I have not done a very good job promoting this page. The Linux people have a counter page which can be found at; http://counter.li.org/index.html. According to the person who runs this page, he has 95,152 registered users which is 2.5 times the number of registered users that we have. Put it another way we have 40% of the registrations that he has. His guess is that there is 8 million Linux users. He has a link off the main page where he notes other guess as to the size of the Linux world but he does not demonstrate a correlation between his 95K registrations and his guess of 8 million Linux users. Rober Young, the guy who owns Red Hat Linux, has written a paper titled "Sizing the Linux Market", http://www.redhat.com/knowledgebase/linuxmarket.html Through various twists and turns of logic, some of which are "interesting" he comes up with a number of 7.5 million Linux users. I'll not go into the various numbers but will hazard a guess as to the size of the FreeBSD world. The Linux counter page as the installed base as approximately 84 time the number of registered users 95,152 X 84.076 = 8,000,000 using the same factor we get 37,849 X 84.076 = 3,182,192 So my guess, which is only good for a laugh, is that we have around 3.5 million users worldwide. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 15 22:56:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A4E14C8B for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA47237; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:54:07 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bill Fumerola , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: More advocacy... Message-ID: <19990415225407.B47059@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <58504.924211092@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <58504.924211092@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 02:18:12PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 02:18:12PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Hey, you don't have to correct *me* on this one, I know that. Better > to figure out how the guy got the erroneous information in the first > place since it certainly didn't come from me. :) Guilty. I spoke to him last night and I told him that the last time I looked it was 60 committers but he should check with you on that. *note to self* number of commiters grows with time. Doh! Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 5: 7:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vtopus.cs.vt.edu (vtopus.cs.vt.edu [128.173.40.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B5615314 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:07:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhagan@vtopus.cs.vt.edu) Received: (from dhagan@localhost) by vtopus.cs.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA12135; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:04:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Hagan To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: Seth , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User base statistics? In-Reply-To: <19990415211152.B46346@ontario.mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Josef Grosch wrote: > On Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 11:40:00AM -0400, Seth wrote: > > I'm not looking for specific TYPES of servers (web, ftp, whatever)... I'm > > looking for a total count of FreeBSD systems out there -- including those > > not being used to provide any services, and those that might not be > > directly Internet-connected. > > I run the FreeBSD Counter Page which is at; > > http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounterPage.html > > As of a few minutes ago we have 37,849 registered users in our database. > This database is shared with the FreeBSD project and Walnut Creek CDROM. I > must admit that I have not done a very good job promoting this page. Is there any possibility of getting the page to show the number of machines running FreeBSD as opposed to the number of users who have registered? When I registered, I had about 100 machines that used FreeBSD, but the counter only went up by 1 if I recall correctly. Or I'm getting senile too, and it really did go up 100. ;-) Daniel -- Daniel Hagan Computer Systems Engineer dhagan@cs.vt.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 7: 6:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85291542F for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:06:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA49271; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:03:07 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Daniel Hagan Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, Seth , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User base statistics? Message-ID: <19990416070307.C49131@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <19990415211152.B46346@ontario.mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Daniel Hagan on Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 08:04:55AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 08:04:55AM -0400, Daniel Hagan wrote: > On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Josef Grosch wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 11:40:00AM -0400, Seth wrote: > > > I'm not looking for specific TYPES of servers (web, ftp, whatever)... I'm > > > looking for a total count of FreeBSD systems out there -- including those > > > not being used to provide any services, and those that might not be > > > directly Internet-connected. > > > > I run the FreeBSD Counter Page which is at; > > > > http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounterPage.html > > > > As of a few minutes ago we have 37,849 registered users in our database. > > This database is shared with the FreeBSD project and Walnut Creek CDROM. I > > must admit that I have not done a very good job promoting this page. > > Is there any possibility of getting the page to show the number of > machines running FreeBSD as opposed to the number of users who have > registered? When I registered, I had about 100 machines that used > FreeBSD, but the counter only went up by 1 if I recall correctly. > > Or I'm getting senile too, and it really did go up 100. ;-) Good idea. I'll fix that this week end. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 9:18:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E254614D35 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:18:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id BAA12731; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:15:55 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <371761CC.68630422@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:14:04 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Advocacy styles :-) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oh, my! Oh, my! Look at what I found on slashdot: > BTW, I agree about Jordon Hubbard. Very classy guy from what > I've seen online. I know a number of Linux folks who could learn > a thing or two from him in terms of how to advocate a given > platform. :-) Life is so funny, isn't it? :^) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 10:12:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jaguar.ir.miami.edu (jaguar.ir.miami.edu [129.171.32.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35D115962 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:12:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcus@miami.edu) Received: from jaguar.ir.miami.edu ("port 2265"@jaguar.ir.miami.edu [129.171.32.10]) by jaguar.ir.miami.edu (PMDF V5.2-29 #30976) with ESMTP id <0FAA00O35L0RY9@jaguar.ir.miami.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:10:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" Subject: Redhat Certified Engineer To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it seems Redhat is offering certification much like Cisco or Microsoft. I think a FreeBSD Ceritifed Engineer would be a great thing to tag to my signature. Any plan for this? Need any help putting something together? Is this even a good idea? Joe Clarke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 10:18:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from confusion.skinner.org (confusion.skinner.org [209.3.31.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCC015970 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:18:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skinner@skinner.org) Received: from confusion.skinner.org (skinner@confusion.skinner.org [209.3.31.16]) by confusion.skinner.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA07599 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:23:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from skinner@skinner.org) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:23:26 -0400 (EDT) From: S K I N N E R To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: InfoWorld. Article Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "freebsd offers a sound open source alteranative" There seems to be a good article in April 12ths issues of InfoWorld IT journal. I was actually happy to read an article that was mostly all "FBSD" and not one where they compare and contrast and or state "but Linux is more popular". I have read many articles that the above, and that there is more "programs for it" Which makes me laugh sometimes. Since most people don't realize the cross support between the 2 in "most" programs. This article written by James C Luh actual has some excellent research done on the whole concept of FreeBSD and that it is an equal (IMHO better) alternative to open source os's :) ******************************************************************** Robert Skinner skinner{at}skinner[dot]org -------------------------------------------------------------------- Skinner's Personal Ego http://www.skinner.org ******************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 11:48:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4822814FD6 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13093; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:45:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:45:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot In-Reply-To: <19990415115858.A85264@dub.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, > Here's the interesting part: > > "I wish more BSD stuff came down the pipe here, but Linux just > has the vast majority of the submissions here too." I've sent in requests just to note various releases of Daemon News. Out of the, um 8 (this is embarrassing - I'm the editor and I don't know how many issues we've had) only 3 or 4 of those have been posted. I also pointed to Chris' editorial from the April issue in particular: http://www.daemonnews.org/199904/editorial.html Still nothing and it's all about what every Linux user should know about BSD. > Hopefully this is really how he feels. Hopefully - but I'm not holding my breath with the sort of percentages I've been seeing. Maybe Rob wants more BSD stuff but the other people who control what shows up on Slashdot don't... beats me. Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 12:33:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36A41532C for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA067240978; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:29:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:29:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Joe "Marcus" Clarke wrote: > I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it seems Redhat is offering > certification much like Cisco or Microsoft. I think a FreeBSD Ceritifed > Engineer would be a great thing to tag to my signature. Any plan for > this? Need any help putting something together? Is this even a good > idea? I'm not speaking on behalf of my companies Education Division, however: Getting a 'course' added to any education/testing facility is difficult because of: (1) Machines (2) Course Materials (the meat of the 'class') (3) Standardized Testing a. Levels? b. Specialties (FreeBSD Networking, FreeBSD SysAdmin..) (4) Instructors (5) Location All of these are big reasons why courses are so high now-a-days. I understand that Cisco Certified people have to go to one of three places in the country to finish their lab requirement, and that's just speaks to how hard it is to coordinate such an effort. In other words: For this to work, we would have to have standardized tests and corporate support, as well as a network of (qualified!) instructors. Hope this helps, - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 12:57:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from confusion.skinner.org (confusion.skinner.org [209.3.31.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3035714D4A for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:57:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skinner@skinner.org) Received: from confusion.skinner.org (skinner@confusion.skinner.org [209.3.31.16]) by confusion.skinner.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA08793 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:02:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from skinner@skinner.org) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:02:43 -0400 (EDT) From: S K I N N E R To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: :)All of these are big reasons why courses are so high now-a-days. :) :)I understand that Cisco Certified people have to go to one of three places :)in the country to finish their lab requirement, and that's just speaks to :)how hard it is to coordinate such an effort. :) :)In other words: For this to work, we would have to have standardized tests :)and corporate support, as well as a network of (qualified!) instructors. :) The cisco cert CCIE is as you state with the lab and is very hard and requires a more skilled person to pass.. There are also other levels, such as the CCNA which is lower but still valuable and is based on the 608 exam. Sun cert is just a basic multiple choice exam and isnt that diffucult for your more inapt users. It is offerd at many places over the us. I think, as I have not seen, Red Hat would be doing the same as Sun has done. Granted it is not the most affective way of weeding out professionals vs non-prof users. But it does help some and it also show that the person is more "serious" about thier efforst put into the use of the os. The major effort would be in the creation of the exam methods and the levels of the exams (as you stated admin, security) However the need to create "course" material is only nessary if you want to teach the class's. You can still have the certification and just allow the people to train and learn on thier own. Which in a way weeds out the people who just took the class's to know how to pass the os exam. (like some mcse's out there.) ******************************************************************** Robert Skinner skinner{at}skinner[dot]org -------------------------------------------------------------------- Skinner's Personal Ego http://www.skinner.org ******************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 13: 1:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D0314D4A for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03490; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:59:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd003456; Fri Apr 16 12:59:20 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA15823; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:59:20 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904161959.MAA15823@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Benchmarks To: seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org (Seth) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:59:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Seth" at Apr 14, 99 03:21:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Just something that was posted to #freebsd yesterday. I think it's pretty > interesting for a couple reasons I'll mention below: > > http://www.mindcraft.com/whitepapers/nts4rhlinux.html > > > Summary: Windows NT outperforms Linux Red Hat in ease-of-install, web > benchmarks, and file server benchmarks (using samba). > > What's hidden in here is that Microsoft sponsored this test (paid > Mindcraft to do it, I guess). > > Something I found interesting. There was a post a while back that > suggested that Microsoft would not allow benchmarks of its own products to > be posted by 3rd parties. Did I misread this? If not, it seems mighty > unfair of them to post benchmarks only when it's in their interest to do > so. > > I wonder how FreeBSD would stack up in these tests. Not very well. FreeBSD needs to export the LEASE interface to user space for the purpose of implementing opportunity locks; SAMBA already has code that would consume such an interface, so that constrains the implementation considerably. FreeBSD would significantly out-perform NT were that done. As to out-performing Linux, it's questionable. The FreeBSD TCP/IP packet transit time is currently about twice as large as that of Linux, due to some (not so) recent changes in the Linux TCP/IP stack (I didn't track them precisely; this is juse heresay from Jeremy Allison, currently the primary maintainer of SAMBA). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 13:45:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7B21598D for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:45:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA21436; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd021407; Fri Apr 16 13:43:22 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA20602; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:43:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904162043.NAA20602@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer To: marcus@miami.edu (Joe "Marcus" Clarke) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:43:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" at Apr 16, 99 01:10:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it seems Redhat is offering > certification much like Cisco or Microsoft. I think a FreeBSD Ceritifed > Engineer would be a great thing to tag to my signature. Any plan for > this? Need any help putting something together? Is this even a good > idea? This is old news, but worth repeating if people are not aware of what's going on: They have already processed 1000 students through this program at US$2500 a student, and made US$2.5M in the process. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 13:51:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jaguar.ir.miami.edu (jaguar.ir.miami.edu [129.171.32.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395FD15A2C for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcus@miami.edu) Received: from jaguar.ir.miami.edu ("port 3199"@jaguar.ir.miami.edu [129.171.32.10]) by jaguar.ir.miami.edu (PMDF V5.2-29 #30976) with ESMTP id <0FAA00012V5U6R@jaguar.ir.miami.edu> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:49:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joe \"Marcus\" Clarke" Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer In-reply-to: To: S K I N N E R Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As a Cisco employee, I know how hard the CCIE can be. I wasn't suggesting we do something as intensive as the CCIE...maybe something more like CNE or CNA. Joe Clarke On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, S K I N N E R wrote: > On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > > :)All of these are big reasons why courses are so high now-a-days. > :) > :)I understand that Cisco Certified people have to go to one of three places > :)in the country to finish their lab requirement, and that's just speaks to > :)how hard it is to coordinate such an effort. > :) > :)In other words: For this to work, we would have to have standardized tests > :)and corporate support, as well as a network of (qualified!) instructors. > :) > > The cisco cert CCIE is as you state with the lab and is very > hard and requires a more skilled person to pass.. There are > also other levels, such as the CCNA which is lower but still > valuable and is based on the 608 exam. > > Sun cert is just a basic multiple choice exam and isnt that > diffucult for your more inapt users. It is offerd at many > places over the us. I think, as I have not seen, Red Hat > would be doing the same as Sun has done. > > Granted it is not the most affective way of weeding out > professionals vs non-prof users. But it does help some and > it also show that the person is more "serious" about thier > efforst put into the use of the os. > > The major effort would be in the creation of the exam > methods and the levels of the exams (as you stated admin, > security) However the need to create "course" material is > only nessary if you want to teach the class's. You can still > have the certification and just allow the people to train > and learn on thier own. Which in a way weeds out the people > who just took the class's to know how to pass the os exam. > (like some mcse's out there.) > > > ******************************************************************** > Robert Skinner skinner{at}skinner[dot]org > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Skinner's Personal Ego http://www.skinner.org > ******************************************************************** > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 14:48:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from dnh.pce.net (dnh.pce.net [207.1.59.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C89159E3 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@dnh.pce.net) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by dnh.pce.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA35343 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:45:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dave@dnh.pce.net) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:45:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Hummel Reply-To: dhh@pce.net To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: List of FreeBSD users (where is it?) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Have I completely lost my mind or did someone post the address of a site where someone was compiling a list of companies using FreeBSD. This would have been a personal site, not FreeBSD's own gallery. I can't find this address anywhere - could someone post it? Thanks, Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 14:49:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CCF8915A1E for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:49:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 11090 invoked by uid 1001); 16 Apr 1999 21:47:07 -0000 Date: 16 Apr 1999 14:47:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:47:07 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: List of FreeBSD users (where is it?) Message-ID: <19990416144707.A11061@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Dave Hummel on Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 05:45:38PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been compiling a list at: http://www.dub.net/bigboys/ -Bill On Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 05:45:38PM -0400, Dave Hummel wrote: > Hi, > > Have I completely lost my mind or did someone post the address of a site > where someone was compiling a list of companies using FreeBSD. This would > have been a personal site, not FreeBSD's own gallery. > > I can't find this address anywhere - could someone post it? > > Thanks, > Dave > -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 15:17:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from dnh.pce.net (dnh.pce.net [207.1.59.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE8F1540B for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:17:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@dnh.pce.net) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by dnh.pce.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA35388; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:15:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dave@dnh.pce.net) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:15:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Hummel Reply-To: dhh@pce.net To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: List of FreeBSD users (where is it?) In-Reply-To: <19990416144707.A11061@dub.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks, that's the one I was looking for. Would www.c2net.com or www.denverbroncos.com be prominent enough? How about www.worldnetdaily.com? Dave On 16 Apr 1999, Bill Swingle wrote: > I have been compiling a list at: > > http://www.dub.net/bigboys/ > > -Bill > > On Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 05:45:38PM -0400, Dave Hummel wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Have I completely lost my mind or did someone post the address of a site > > where someone was compiling a list of companies using FreeBSD. This would > > have been a personal site, not FreeBSD's own gallery. > > > > I can't find this address anywhere - could someone post it? > > > > Thanks, > > Dave > > > > -- > -=| Bill Swingle - > -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson > -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 17: 8:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA3215416 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id RAA54804; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:05:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:05:40 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Bill Swingle Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: List of FreeBSD users (where is it?) Message-ID: <19990416170540.K5762@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990416144707.A11061@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990416144707.A11061@dub.net>; from Bill Swingle on Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 02:47:07PM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 02:47:07PM -0700, Bill Swingle wrote: > On Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 05:45:38PM -0400, Dave Hummel wrote: > > > > Have I completely lost my mind or did someone post the address of a site > > where someone was compiling a list of companies using FreeBSD. This would > > have been a personal site, not FreeBSD's own gallery. > > I have been compiling a list at: > > http://www.dub.net/bigboys/ Bill, Have you considered becoming an editor at dmoz.org, and contributing your additions to the list of prominent users that resides there? It would certainly be a nicer long-term solution than taking items and prose verbatim from the dmoz.org site and calling them your own. Regards, Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@pobox.com "You uudecode it." http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 19: 8:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thneed.ubergeeks.com (thneed.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D91D14C2D for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:08:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by thneed.ubergeeks.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA01239; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:09:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) X-Authentication-Warning: thneed.ubergeeks.com: adrian owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Donald Wilde Cc: Brett Taylor , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <371568F9.E69A34BB@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > Actually, (sub rosa) they just sent a $25K donation to the FreeBSD > Project. Buy some cards, guys, and let them know you appreciate their > support! Evidently BillyG tried to muscle into their market with some of > his typical roach-like tactics, and they won in court! Who exactly do we send the cards to? Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 20:53: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5019114EEA for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:53:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA53207; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:39:18 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Terry Lambert Cc: Joe Marcus Clarke , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer Message-ID: <19990416203918.A53178@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <199904162043.NAA20602@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199904162043.NAA20602@usr06.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 08:43:22PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 08:43:22PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it seems Redhat is offering > > certification much like Cisco or Microsoft. I think a FreeBSD Ceritifed > > Engineer would be a great thing to tag to my signature. Any plan for > > this? Need any help putting something together? Is this even a good > > idea? > > This is old news, but worth repeating if people are not aware > of what's going on: > > They have already processed 1000 students through this program > at US$2500 a student, and made US$2.5M in the process. Minus, of course, their costs such as equipment, teachers, administration, etc. Yes, they made money but not 2.5x10**6 dollars. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 16 21:23:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 2035) id CFCC614C45; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:23:46 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Somewhat in my own defense Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <19990417042346.CFCC614C45@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:23:46 -0700 (PDT) From: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG (Jordan K. Hubbard) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [I've been trying to post this for 3 days, but it keeps vanishing into /dev/null; let's try one more time before sending a letter bomb to postmaster@freebsd.org. :-)] I've stayed out of these exchanges ever since I clearly saw that public fighting wasn't going to buy us anything, but there have been a number of points of view ascribed to me in this discussion stated as if they were "fact" rather than someone's self-serving fiction, and I just want to clear up any misconceptions people may have formed about how I really feel here in the process. First off, with respect to "passionate advocacy", I have absolutely no objection to people being passionate about FreeBSD any more so than I do about them being passionate about their wives or their professions. This is a GOOD thing, obviously, and only someone who was dead could possibly feel otherwise. What I've objected to all along, and I think quite a few of you know what I mean here, is raving advocacy with a lot of shouting and flying spit. That is to "passion" what a street riot is to "a group of people expressing their views" and really, we don't need it. As David has already said several times, we've gone to considerable lengths to ensure that FreeBSD is *not* associated in people's minds with people throwing rocks and bottles and we aim to keep it that way. Our reputation is more important than that and I've expended considerable personal effort in building bridges with the Linux community which I wouldn't care to see dynamited in the name of some short-term gain - it's just bad tactics. Second, there have been a lot of misconceptions about my stance concerning FreeBSD on the desktop or encouraging native ports to FreeBSD, largely because when I'm quoted the quoters usually strip out every bit of surrounding context and, as anyone familiar with the media knows, even Mother Theresa could be made to sound like Hitler if you were clever enough in selecting just certain parts of her public pronouncements. :-) The following, which I posted to USENET a couple of days ago, sums that up rather well so I'll just repost it here: >Date: 1999/04/14 >Forum: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc >Posted on: 1999/04/14 >Message-ID: <371576C6.9E0A2719@FreeBSD.org> >Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy >Organization: The FreeBSD Project >References: <924063216.639709173@news> Navindra Umanee wrote: [referencing my recent interview with Internet World] > Indeed! What a weird thing for Hubbard to have said... Not at all - it's called playing to your strengths. FWIW, I think Linux's desktop focus is not one which will result in long-term success if it's done to the exclusion of other, more important features which OSes like Win98 and BeOS lack. There are simply too many big guns aimed at this market and, what's more, Unix in general (and I include Linux) is coming from a long way behind and chasing a set of targets which aren't exactly standing still either when it comes to the desktop. Yes, I know about KDE and Gnome and while they're both noble efforts, they still don't really come close (for the typical computer user) to making it truly approachable. If you want empirical proof, just stick your mother or father in front of a Un*x box and see how much more productive they are with it vs Windows. Sure, there will always be somebody's grandmother who writes 1000 lines of C a day and can handle any Unix system you care to name, but that's hardly the "typical scenario" and it's definitely not what I've observed in the field. What's worse is that I can't even view a lot of web sites under Linux or *BSD because they use so damn many plug-ins that aren't even available for Netscape on *any* of its various Un*x incarnations. Or how about pointcast? You want a stock ticker-tape along the bottom of your screen, or the latest news from CNN automagically on your screen saver? Forget it. Win98, on the other hand, makes these sorts of features (which, believe it or not, a *lot* of people use) trivial to add and, again, I see a lot of my less computer literate friends using them and loving it. I don't mean to make it sound as if I'm glorifying Windows here or anything, I'm simply saying "know your enemy and don't attack his fortifications, go around - you can get killed charging machine gun nests you know! :)" Another slightly annoying thing is the extent to which I'm misquoted by some of these magazines (though this one got most things I said right, if you don't include the comment about grizzled unixheads :). For example, I'm widely quoted as saying that I actively discourage native FreeBSD ports when what I originally said was (and pay close attention) "For those companies who are contemplating ONLY a single port, or are just getting back into the Unix market and only have the initial resources for one port, I encourage them to port to Linux and get the widest possible user base." I didn't say I didn't want any FreeBSD ports at all, I said that if you're only going to do one, you might as well make it Linux and not, say, SCO or Solaris because our chances of running either binary are frankly much smaller. This is just common sense, especially when you figure that any company which does re-enter the Unix market and gets burned is not going to be a vendor which is easy to convince to try again. As far as my comment on ceding the desktop is concerned, that's another one which got somewhat overstated and is missing a lot of context. I believe the question was that if I had to choose a single focus, what would it be. I said the server, naturally, but that we'd also do what we could (given our limited resources) to make the desktop palatable also since a lot of us (including myself) do indeed use FreeBSD on the desktop. I also said that most of the desktop efforts Linux was currently engaged in, like KDE and Gnome, benefitted us just fine and that we've put a fair amount of work into encapsulating this work in the ports collection so that it's easily accessible. This is hardly the sign of a group who places no importance on the desktop whatsoever, and again the question was what our *focus* was, which is of course the server. I'm sure Linus Torvalds has this problem too and all it goes to show is that you have to take what you read in print with a grain of salt and certainly shouldn't be so naive as to assume that we've "made a pact with the devil" or any such paranoid nonsense. If you want to know my real opinion on something, try asking me. You know where to find me. :-) - Jordan Hubbard Co-founder/Release Engineer, The FreeBSD Project Walnut Creek CDROM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 2:49:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45BA151C4; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:49:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <2RSVNTJQ>; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:45:07 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Somewhat in my own defense Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:45:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:jkh@FreeBSD.ORG] > Sent: 17 April 1999 05:24 > To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Somewhat in my own defense much deleted > Another slightly annoying thing is the extent to which I'm > misquoted by > some of these magazines (though this one got most things I > said right, > if you don't include the comment about grizzled unixheads :). For > example, I'm widely quoted as saying that I actively > discourage native > FreeBSD ports when what I originally said was (and pay close > attention) > "For those companies who are contemplating ONLY a single port, or are > just getting back into the Unix market and only have the initial > resources for one port, I encourage them to port to Linux and get the > widest possible user base." I didn't say I didn't want any FreeBSD > ports at all, I said that if you're only going to do one, Jordan, I don't think anyone will dispute the effort you put into supporting the project. However, I do think there are some things you could do differently when talking to the press. Journalists like two things. 1) Ready made press releases, generally a small bit of prose that makes a single point clearly that they can more or less cut and paste into their publication without too much work. Journalists like to minimise their work (who doesn't). 2) Overly stated answers that can be pruned down a lot during editing to suit the slant that the author wants to take in the article. It's point 2 that you fall foul of and that's where the criticisms from within the group stem from. You just shouldn't say things like the above. A single one line response such as "yes we'd love companies to port their products to FreeBSD" should be the correct reply. It can't be turned around into anything else but it doesn't in any way burn bridges with other groups. Similarly, "our main strength is the server market" is a good quote, there's no reason to say "we've conceded the desktop market to Microsoft", that's a negative point not a positive one and can easily be turned around out of context in an article. I've done a lot of PR in my life and the above two points were good pieces of advice handed down to me from people who had a lot more experience and certainly they've borne true for me. Paul Richards Originative Solutions Ltd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 6:37:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 325E514CCB for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:37:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-033.thuntek.net [207.66.52.33]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA29894; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37188DE3.7F29768@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:34:27 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > Actually, (sub rosa) they just sent a $25K donation to the FreeBSD > > Project. Buy some cards, guys, and let them know you appreciate their > > support! Evidently BillyG tried to muscle into their market with some of > > his typical roach-like tactics, and they won in court! > > Who exactly do we send the cards to? > How about sending one to Jordan for all the advocacy he's doing his best to do? I'm not sure how he'll interpret it, though. Blue Mountain cards are built around poetry, and I don't think the jkh Perl script has shown any AC/DC tendencies... ;-) -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 6:50:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 736EE14DD4; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-033.thuntek.net [207.66.52.33]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA01429; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371890EE.4EC52031@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:47:26 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Somewhat in my own defense References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [trimmed cross-post] paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:jkh@FreeBSD.ORG] [snipped again] > Jordan, I don't think anyone will dispute the effort you put into supporting > the project. However, I do think there are some things you could do > differently when talking to the press. > > Journalists like two things. > > 1) Ready made press releases, generally a small bit of prose that makes a > single point clearly that they can more or less cut and paste into their > publication without too much work. Journalists like to minimise their work > (who doesn't). > 2) Overly stated answers that can be pruned down a lot during editing to > suit the slant that the author wants to take in the article. > Let me accept a little of the workload here. I am going to be focusing on generating written press releases and soundbite material to feed to the media. > It's point 2 that you fall foul of and that's where the criticisms from > within the group stem from. You just shouldn't say things like the above. A > single one line response such as "yes we'd love companies to port their > products to FreeBSD" should be the correct reply. It can't be turned around > into anything else but it doesn't in any way burn bridges with other groups. > Besides, it's lot of work. I watched Jordan talk for 20 minutes with the guy from Upside, and all we got was a measly 2 pages, most of which was the journalist's interpretation. > Similarly, "our main strength is the server market" is a good quote, there's > no reason to say "we've conceded the desktop market to Microsoft", that's a > negative point not a positive one and can easily be turned around out of > context in an article. > As a Libertarian (Large 'L'), I've had to deal with twisted non-quotes a lot, everything for "you want to give our kids drugs!" to "you want to kill babies!" I hope it's given me the wisdom to keep my mouth shut except in very carefully crafted ways. The more I can do of _successful_ PR, the less Jordan will feel the need to "do SOMETHING, ANYTHING!!!" to get press for FreeBSD. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 12:43:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-44.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40EA14E1F for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:43:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA01149; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:39:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Donald Wilde Cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <37188DE3.7F29768@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > How about sending one to Jordan for all the advocacy he's doing his best > to do? I'm not sure how he'll interpret it, though. Blue Mountain cards > are built around poetry, and I don't think the jkh Perl script has shown > any AC/DC tendencies... ;-) http://www.muttonbone.com/ewe.html - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 14:28:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48CB414FAA for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:28:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12741; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Donald Wilde , Adrian Filipi-Martin , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:39:28 PDT." Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:24:39 -0700 Message-ID: <12739.924384279@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > http://www.muttonbone.com/ewe.html People keep promising to send me one of these (or even one of those two hilarious tee-shirts) but the fickle bastards never do! Grr! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 15: 6: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F81D14F2D for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:06:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990417220517.JWIA5596385.mta1-rme@wocker>; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:05:17 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:03:39 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: Your message of "Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:39:28 PDT." In-reply-to: <12739.924384279@zippy.cdrom.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990417220517.JWIA5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 17 Apr 99, at 14:24, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > http://www.muttonbone.com/ewe.html > > People keep promising to send me one of these (or even one of those > two hilarious tee-shirts) but the fickle bastards never do! Grr! :-) Oh stop your bleating! ;) -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 15:15:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97141153A8 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:15:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08069 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:13:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd008055; Sat Apr 17 15:13:11 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20754 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:13:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904172213.PAA20754@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Page FreeBSD should be listed on... To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:13:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone with the actual information (or willing to dig for it) want to contact this guy to get FreeBSD listed? http://www.cyclic.com/cvs/info-req.html Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 15:59:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076971500A for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:59:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26017; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:56:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd026014; Sat Apr 17 15:56:46 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA22436; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:56:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904172256.PAA22436@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:56:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, marcus@miami.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990416203918.A53178@ontario.mooseriver.com> from "Josef Grosch" at Apr 16, 99 08:39:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 08:43:22PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it seems Redhat is offering > > > certification much like Cisco or Microsoft. I think a FreeBSD Ceritifed > > > Engineer would be a great thing to tag to my signature. Any plan for > > > this? Need any help putting something together? Is this even a good > > > idea? > > > > This is old news, but worth repeating if people are not aware > > of what's going on: > > > > They have already processed 1000 students through this program > > at US$2500 a student, and made US$2.5M in the process. > > > Minus, of course, their costs such as equipment, teachers, administration, > etc. Yes, they made money but not 2.5x10**6 dollars. The point is, they made a profit, and there is opportunity there, if advocating FreeBSD isn't enough to get you interested in doing this type of thing, then maybe the money will be. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 16:59:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6AB1540D for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:59:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA62059; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:55:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:55:25 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Terry Lambert Cc: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com, marcus@miami.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer Message-ID: <19990417165525.A61941@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <19990416203918.A53178@ontario.mooseriver.com> <199904172256.PAA22436@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199904172256.PAA22436@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Apr 17, 1999 at 10:56:45PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 17, 1999 at 10:56:45PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 16, 1999 at 08:43:22PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it seems Redhat is offering > > > > certification much like Cisco or Microsoft. I think a FreeBSD Ceritifed > > > > Engineer would be a great thing to tag to my signature. Any plan for > > > > this? Need any help putting something together? Is this even a good > > > > idea? > > > > > > This is old news, but worth repeating if people are not aware > > > of what's going on: > > > > > > They have already processed 1000 students through this program > > > at US$2500 a student, and made US$2.5M in the process. > > > > > > Minus, of course, their costs such as equipment, teachers, administration, > > etc. Yes, they made money but not 2.5x10**6 dollars. > > The point is, they made a profit, and there is opportunity there, > if advocating FreeBSD isn't enough to get you interested in doing > this type of thing, then maybe the money will be. You know me, Terry. You, and any one else who knows me, know this I am always sniffing around for money. Collecting a check is my favorite thing to do after advocating FreeBSD. I just wanted to inject a little reality into this discussion. Having FreeBSD certified Engineers is a good idea. It will make the suits feel better about FreeBSD and allow FreeBSD-Support to weed out the bozos from the competent. But this is not an easy task. Developing a course of study, standardized testing, recruiting teachers, etc. is a lot of work. If you think getting people to write documentation is tough try getting people to write course work and teach the classes. My $0.02 Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 18:18: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CE214EE9 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:18:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from genisis@istar.ca) Received: from ts9-01.kin.istar.ca ([207.216.1.96] helo=genisis) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10YgBJ-0007HV-00; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:15:34 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990417212002.007a2320@istar.ca> X-Sender: genisis@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:20:02 -0400 To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com From: Dru Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19990417165525.A61941@ontario.mooseriver.com> References: <199904172256.PAA22436@usr08.primenet.com> <19990416203918.A53178@ontario.mooseriver.com> <199904172256.PAA22436@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Having FreeBSD certified Engineers is a good idea. It will make the suits >feel better about FreeBSD and allow FreeBSD-Support to weed out the bozos >from the competent. But this is not an easy task. Developing a course of >study, standardized testing, recruiting teachers, etc. is a lot of work. If >you think getting people to write documentation is tough try getting people >to write course work and teach the classes. If you guys are serious, you can count on my input. I'm currently putting together a mini-course to teach at the college I instruct at. The BSD club I started at the school has been met with such enthusiasm that they want to add a BSD Systems Administrator component to the curriculum. I also have experience with Sylvan's testing methods having gone through both Novell's and Microsoft's engineering certifications. Also have an article poking around somewhere on how the Microsoft certs are developed and the prometrics behind the process. My 2 cents. Dru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 17 21:20: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FBE914D0F for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:19:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA16822 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:47:55 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA27201; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:47:55 +0930 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:47:55 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Slashdot wants BSD articles Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Apologies if this has already been reported here, I'm not subscribed to the list. The intro to a recent article on SLashdot entitled "FreeBSD in the Penguin's Shadow" states: An anonymous reader sent us an article about FreeBSD, and life in Linux's Shadow. Interesting article about the culture difference between Linux and FreeBSD users. Its a good one for you FreeBSD fans and you curious Linux users alike. I wish more BSD stuff came down the pipe here, but Linux just has the vast majority of the submissions here too. Given that slashdot is one of the highest-profile "hacker" news sites, I think it would be a great opportunity for some visible PR. It's certainly heartening to know that the editors aren't as linux-centric as their content would lead you to believe. The article itself is at http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/down_the_toilet?id=3714d4820 and is quite a positve one - nice work, Josef and Jordan! Kris ----- The Feynman problem-solving algorithm: 1. Write down the problem 2. Think real hard 3. Write down the solution To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 0:35:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90758154D2 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from vmunix.com (ppp-a-6.atnet.net [205.199.6.56]) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.9.2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA04314; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:28:47 GMT (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Message-ID: <37198A8D.FD818253@vmunix.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:32:30 -0700 From: Chris Coleman Reply-To: chrisc@vmunix.com Organization: Daemon News Monthly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org, chrisc@vmunix.com Cc: poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: FreeBSD Friendly Icon Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------474BB0C3D74D41E45555F43B" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------474BB0C3D74D41E45555F43B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attached is a "FreeBSD Friendly" graphic that my wife drew. 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sg6D4S///0AJDlANZygJFFBBp3EAYSATcIhuKnInK4gPLWAPbAAqrnEA0uAVPqCFpzEC9rAe AQAavbEXsuATKBgVLGgCYzEQ16IQWWEMSOASArGCbwgEQUJPLTACy4JuxoAIhgEgqggabhAA OfgpsaiCs1iLP6IQU/KJBLGCnUAQwngW2scYNKiMAsGMG4AP2ygQ0XiE8KIfhxEgCZEg1UIQ tKg2A1FBMlAen+gATYAM+agOeUEBrSEJG6AOnygn4JABB+CNAuEqIGACu/EPCeGFsDIQBTgU PlGJ6DYCaGAPNGEPp5ABDlAUbPEb6qAOLUAFS8Ehy+KJfIgP99EExlCS7ngQY4sXBjnAL00Q BjLwKRsQBmGwLQzgA2GQBfwRAEJJBWWhO4RCBWHgAzIQBkAAkFB5JuzRHbuxMFjpFtmRlRsh P1RgAj6AD7rAlRvBAEBQQeg2hmS5lmzZlm75lnAZl3I5lxMREAA7 --------------474BB0C3D74D41E45555F43B-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 0:47:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D6E14EC4 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:47:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip124.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.124]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F4237079; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA36860; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:45:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:45:25 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Kris Kennaway Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot wants BSD articles Message-ID: <19990418024525.D35278@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 01:47:55PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 17, 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Given that slashdot is one of the highest-profile "hacker" news sites, I think > it would be a great opportunity for some visible PR. It's certainly heartening > to know that the editors aren't as linux-centric as their content would lead > you to believe. You think they'd accept the BSD articles we've been submitting, but they haven't. I suppose they either don't care about when movies are made with FreeBSD, or are actually just not paying attention. -- Chris Costello Software is best understood as a branch of movie making. - Ted Nelson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 6:21:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE5C1507F for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 06:21:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-034.thuntek.net [207.66.52.34]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA11462; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:18:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3719DBA9.AE45125@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:18:33 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chrisc@vmunix.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon References: <37198A8D.FD818253@vmunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I like it as it stands by itself. It's NEAT! The concept clicks, it says "Cool!" [ or is it "Kewl"? Methinks that's for Linux types, not us "grizzled UNIXheads" ] However, as a "Brand" for the FreeBSD products, I think this would be a mistake. When making a Logo for a Brand, you need to focus effort on multiplying and resonating your existing image. It's a mistake to create a new character each time you come up with a new application, witness the discussion of our punch-drunk waiter on the 3.1 CD set. Can I suggest a second cut? Take the same concept, Beastie with mirrored shades, and start from the existing "doughboy daemon" version, maybe giving him teeth in the same manner with xmorph as well as the shades? -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 6:36:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4545714C80 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 06:36:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-034.thuntek.net [207.66.52.34]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA14382; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:34:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3719DF4C.186FF97E@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:34:04 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dru Cc: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer References: <199904172256.PAA22436@usr08.primenet.com> <19990416203918.A53178@ontario.mooseriver.com> <199904172256.PAA22436@usr08.primenet.com> <3.0.6.32.19990417212002.007a2320@istar.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'll add this to the FreeBSD advo tasks list as soon as we get it all up live with signups, which should happen this week. It's a Real Good Thing, although I would caution -- as Josef did -- that if we can't get the Handbook in shape, we're unlikely to do a good job of creating a course; we'd just get laughed at, IMHO. For those of you who don't know, Jordan has set up our machine advocacy.freebsd.org, and he was nice enough to plant it at one of USWest's major co-lo points. Jim and Rob and I will be stuffing it full of goodies this week, and it's gonna be fun to see how fast we can overload it... ;-) -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 6:41:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D1014C80 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 06:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-034.thuntek.net [207.66.52.34]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA14583; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:38:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3719E059.F0DC4C39@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:38:33 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Zepeda Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ROFL! Does it Baaaaash? -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 7: 4: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 0) id 47C3F153AD; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:19:18 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Somewhat in my own defense... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" Content-Description: Blind Carbon Copy Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Original Message To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Somewhat in my own defense... Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:19:18 -0700 Message-ID: <64277.924311958@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" MIME-Version: 1.0 I've stayed out of these exchanges ever since I clearly saw that public fighting wasn't going to buy us anything, but there have been a number of points of view ascribed to me in this discussion stated as if they were "fact" rather than someone's self-serving fiction, and I just want to clear up any misconceptions people may have formed about how I really feel here in the process. First off, with respect to "passionate advocacy", I have absolutely no objection to people being passionate about FreeBSD any more so than I do about them being passionate about their wives or their professions. This is a GOOD thing, obviously, and only someone who was dead could possibly feel otherwise. What I've objected to all along, and I think quite a few of you know what I mean here, is raving advocacy with a lot of shouting and flying spit. That is to "passion" what a street riot is to "a group of people expressing their views" and really, we don't need it. As David has already said several times, we've gone to considerable lengths to ensure that FreeBSD is *not* associated in people's minds with people throwing rocks and bottles and we aim to keep it that way. Our reputation is more important than that and I've expended considerable personal effort in building bridges with the Linux community which I wouldn't care to see dynamited in the name of some short-term gain - it's just bad tactics. Second, there have been a lot of misconceptions about my stance concerning FreeBSD on the desktop or encouraging native ports to FreeBSD, largely because when I'm quoted the quoters usually strip out every bit of surrounding context and, as anyone familiar with the media knows, even Mother Theresa could be made to sound like Hitler if you were clever enough in selecting just certain parts of her public pronouncements. :-) The following, which I posted to USENET a couple of days ago, sums that up rather well so I'll just repost it here: Date: 1999/04/14 Forum: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Posted on: 1999/04/14 Message-ID: <371576C6.9E0A2719@FreeBSD.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy Organization: The FreeBSD Project References: <924063216.639709173@news> Navindra Umanee wrote: [referencing my interview with Internet World] > Indeed! What a weird thing for Hubbard to have said... Not at all - it's called playing to your strengths. FWIW, I think Linux's desktop focus is not one which will result in long-term success if it's done to the exclusion of other, more important features which OSes like Win98 and BeOS lack. There are simply too many big guns aimed at this market and, what's more, Unix in general (and I include Linux) is coming from a long way behind and chasing a set of targets which aren't exactly standing still either when it comes to the desktop. Yes, I know about KDE and Gnome and while they're both noble efforts, they still don't really come close (for the typical computer user) to making it truly approachable. If you want empirical proof, just stick your mother or father in front of a Un*x box and see how much more productive they are with it vs Windows. Sure, there will always be somebody's grandmother who writes 1000 lines of C a day and can handle any Unix system you care to name, but that's hardly the "typical scenario" and it's definitely not what I've observed in the field. What's worse is that I can't even view a lot of web sites under Linux or *BSD because they use so damn many plug-ins that aren't even available for Netscape on *any* of its various Un*x incarnations. Or how about pointcast? You want a stock ticker-tape along the bottom of your screen, or the latest news from CNN automagically on your screen saver? Forget it. Win98, on the other hand, makes these sorts of features (which, believe it or not, a *lot* of people use) trivial to add and, again, I see a lot of my less computer literate friends using them and loving it. I don't mean to make it sound as if I'm glorifying Windows here or anything, I'm simply saying "know your enemy and don't attack his fortifications, go around - you can get killed charging machine gun nests you know! :)" Another slightly annoying thing is the extent to which I'm misquoted by some of these magazines (though this one got most things I said right, if you don't include the comment about grizzled unixheads :). For example, I'm widely quoted as saying that I actively discourage native FreeBSD ports when what I originally said was (and pay close attention) "For those companies who are contemplating ONLY a single port, or are just getting back into the Unix market and only have the initial resources for one port, I encourage them to port to Linux and get the widest possible user base." I didn't say I didn't want any FreeBSD ports at all, I said that if you're only going to do one, you might as well make it Linux and not, say, SCO or Solaris because our chances of running either binary are frankly much smaller. This is just common sense, especially when you figure that any company which does re-enter the Unix market and gets burned is not going to be a vendor which is easy to convince to try again. As far as my comment on ceding the desktop is concerned, that's another one which got somewhat overstated and is missing a lot of context. I believe the question was that if I had to choose a single focus, what would it be. I said the server, naturally, but that we'd also do what we could (given our limited resources) to make the desktop palatable also since a lot of us (including myself) do indeed use FreeBSD on the desktop. I also said that most of the desktop efforts Linux was currently engaged in, like KDE and Gnome, benefitted us just fine and that we've put a fair amount of work into encapsulating this work in the ports collection so that it's easily accessible. This is hardly the sign of a group who places no importance on the desktop whatsoever, and again the question was what our *focus* was, which is of course the server. I'm sure Linus Torvalds has this problem too and all it goes to show is that you have to take what you read in print with a grain of salt and certainly shouldn't be so naive as to assume that we've "made a pact with the devil" or any such paranoid nonsense. If you want to know my real opinion on something, try asking me. You know where to find me. :-) -- - Jordan Hubbard Co-founder/Release Manager, The FreeBSD Project Walnut Creek CDROM ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 7:11: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id 0E6FB15478; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:11:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990417042346.CFCC614C45@hub.freebsd.org> (jkh@FreeBSD.ORG) Subject: Re: Somewhat in my own defense Message-Id: <19990418141104.0E6FB15478@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > [I've been trying to post this for 3 days, but it keeps vanishing into > /dev/null; let's try one more time before sending a letter bomb to > postmaster@freebsd.org. :-)] > > I've stayed out of these exchanges ever since I clearly saw that > public fighting wasn't going to buy us anything, but there have been a > number of points of view ascribed to me in this discussion stated as > if they were "fact" rather than someone's self-serving fiction, and I > just want to clear up any misconceptions people may have formed about > how I really feel here in the process. [snip] Jordan hit our spam filters. Two of his emails were diverted from the lists to the mailman mailbox. Hopefully those who rant about Jordan being "special" may now understand that he too is subject to the same spam filters as the rest of us ;) Unfortunately, while catching up on my mail, I read Jordan's impassioned email to me asking why these two messages never reached the lists and resent them after modifing the spam filter slightly (the same spam filters apply to all of us, including Jordan). So you will receive two copies fo the messages. ;( jmb -- Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Core Team, Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD--The Power to Serve JMB193 http://www.freebsd.org/ PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 7:15: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23D514C13 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:15:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02131; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:12:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Donald Wilde Cc: chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:18:33 MDT." <3719DBA9.AE45125@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:12:18 -0700 Message-ID: <2129.924444738@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Can I suggest a second cut? Take the same concept, Beastie with mirrored > shades, and start from the existing "doughboy daemon" version, maybe > giving him teeth in the same manner with xmorph as well as the shades? All the initial versions of "the punch drunk waiter" (gee, thanks Don :) actually had teeth on the daemon and I can say that they made him look either supremely goofy or downright evil. A new logo, to be sure, but lose the teeth. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 7:24:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8189C14C13; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:24:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02280; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Somewhat in my own defense In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:11:04 PDT." <19990418141104.0E6FB15478@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:21:49 -0700 Message-ID: <2278.924445309@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Unfortunately, while catching up on my mail, I read Jordan's > impassioned email to me asking why these two messages never reached > the lists and resent them after modifing the spam filter slightly > (the same spam filters apply to all of us, including Jordan). So you > will receive two copies fo the messages. ;( Not to worry, Jonathan, and let me just say that I appreciate that you've put the time and effort into making sure that we have any spam protection at all. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 7:30:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6EB315213 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip124.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.124]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158FB37067; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA38497; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:28:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:28:09 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Donald Wilde , chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon Message-ID: <19990418092809.B37740@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <3719DBA9.AE45125@thuntek.net> <2129.924444738@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: <2129.924444738@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 07:12:18AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 18, 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Can I suggest a second cut? Take the same concept, Beastie with mirrored > > shades, and start from the existing "doughboy daemon" version, maybe > > giving him teeth in the same manner with xmorph as well as the shades? > > All the initial versions of "the punch drunk waiter" (gee, thanks Don :) > actually had teeth on the daemon and I can say that they made him > look either supremely goofy or downright evil. A new logo, to be sure, > but lose the teeth. :-) What, may I ask, was wrong with the cover image from the 2.2 CDs? > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello This is line 135 of .tags. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 7:53:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C1A14FC3 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02427; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: chris@calldei.com Cc: Donald Wilde , chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:28:09 CDT." <19990418092809.B37740@holly.dyndns.org> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:50:58 -0700 Message-ID: <2425.924447058@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What, may I ask, was wrong with the cover image from the 2.2 > CDs? There was nothing "wrong" with it, we just saw a need for a little variety and we'd been using the same image for a couple of years. OK, so perhaps a tail-less waiter wasn't the best idea for a replacement we've ever had, but I'm still more than keen to see alternative images (and put out a call for same long before I ever contracted for the waiter/news/bug/docs/release related images). Everyone seems to like the others, FWIW, just the waiter has been "contraversial." Any budding artists out there care to do better? If your image makes it to the CD, I'll even pay you some money. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 9:21: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C256152F7 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <2RSVNT52>; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:16:41 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, chris@calldei.com Cc: dwilde1@thuntek.net, chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: RE: FreeBSD Friendly Icon Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:16:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordan K. Hubbard [mailto:jkh@zippy.cdrom.com] > Sent: 18 April 1999 15:51 > To: chris@calldei.com > Cc: Donald Wilde; chrisc@vmunix.com; advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; > poohsannah@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon > > > > What, may I ask, was wrong with the cover image from the 2.2 > > CDs? > > There was nothing "wrong" with it, we just saw a need for a little > variety and we'd been using the same image for a couple of years. OK, > so perhaps a tail-less waiter wasn't the best idea for a replacement > we've ever had, but I'm still more than keen to see alternative images > (and put out a call for same long before I ever contracted for the > waiter/news/bug/docs/release related images). Everyone seems to like > the others, FWIW, just the waiter has been "contraversial." I didn't see the other thread on the waiter image but the impression it gave us here was of someone working at McDonalds, not generally a highly respected image :-) I think it was the coke like container he was carrying more than anything that gave that impression rather than the waiter concept. To be honest, I hadn't actually noticed he was tailess. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 9:24:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.nostrum.com (mail.nostrum.com [206.28.8.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E0B1507F; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:24:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pckizer@nostrum.com) Received: (from pckizer@localhost) by mail.nostrum.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id LAA25698; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:22:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199904181622.LAA25698@mail.nostrum.com> From: Philip Kizer To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:49:49 PDT." <58590.923989789@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:22:02 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >"Movie FX company chooses FreeBSD for overall reliability" > >Then in the article you can have a paragraph saying how Linux was >evaluated and FreeBSD chosen instead, even though the renderman binary >was a Linux one. Even if it just states reasons of personal >preference for this, it's fine. Just so long as it's not in the >headline or makes claims that Linux is somehow less reliable in >general (stating a preference is not the same as making bold claims), >we're fine. Is there a press release yet for that one to which we can point people? I'm mainly asking in relation to the latest User Friendly...I was about to pen a quick note to illiad, but was hoping for some "official" information: http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99apr/19990418.html -philip -- AKA: Philip Kizer Texas A&M CIS Operating Systems Group, Unix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 10: 3:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-2.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3632514F9A for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:03:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00314; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:00:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:00:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <3719E059.F0DC4C39@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ROFL! Does it Baaaaash? There's one way to find out :) - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 10:15:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BDF714DC1; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:15:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00636; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:13:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Philip Kizer Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:22:02 CDT." <199904181622.LAA25698@mail.nostrum.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:13:25 -0700 Message-ID: <634.924455605@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there a press release yet for that one to which we can point people? A press release requires a willing press. :) So far, we haven't had much luck there. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 10:55:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359AE14BE5 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA33739 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:52:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:52:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: FreeBSD Friendly Icon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > > > What, may I ask, was wrong with the cover image from the 2.2 > > > CDs? > > > > There was nothing "wrong" with it, we just saw a need for a little > > variety and we'd been using the same image for a couple of years. OK, > > so perhaps a tail-less waiter wasn't the best idea for a replacement > > we've ever had, but I'm still more than keen to see alternative images > > (and put out a call for same long before I ever contracted for the > > waiter/news/bug/docs/release related images). Everyone seems to like > > the others, FWIW, just the waiter has been "contraversial." > > I didn't see the other thread on the waiter image but the impression it gave > us here was of someone working at McDonalds, not generally a highly > respected image :-) I think it was the coke like container he was carrying > more than anything that gave that impression rather than the waiter concept. > To be honest, I hadn't actually noticed he was tailess. > Hmm... maybe if he was carrying a computer or CDROM or something else computer-related on the tray, rather than a soda? I do think the image fits the "Power to Serve" theme, but not with the soda. Make it something that looks really heavy with him holding it up with one arm and it'll show just what kind of "power" we have. :-) A "fully-loaded" server chassis perhaps. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and Alpha architectures (SPARC under development). ( http://www.freebsd.org ) "One should admire Windows users. It takes a great deal of courage to trust Windows with your data." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 11: 1:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEEF514BE5 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:01:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00924; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:58:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Chris Dillon Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:52:54 CDT." Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:58:50 -0700 Message-ID: <922.924458330@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hmm... maybe if he was carrying a computer or CDROM or something else > computer-related on the tray, rather than a soda? I do think the The tray *is* a CDROM. Sheesh, I didn't know there were so many art critics here or I'd have never touched this image. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 11:17:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5B42154AC for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01874; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11218; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Chris Dillon Subject: RE: FreeBSD Friendly Icon Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 18-Apr-99 Chris Dillon wrote: > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 paul@originative.co.uk wrote: >> > > What, may I ask, was wrong with the cover image from the 2.2 >> > > CDs? >> > >> > There was nothing "wrong" with it, we just saw a need for a little >> > variety and we'd been using the same image for a couple of years. OK, >> > so perhaps a tail-less waiter wasn't the best idea for a replacement >> > we've ever had, but I'm still more than keen to see alternative images >> > (and put out a call for same long before I ever contracted for the >> > waiter/news/bug/docs/release related images). Everyone seems to like >> > the others, FWIW, just the waiter has been "contraversial." >> >> I didn't see the other thread on the waiter image but the impression it gave >> us here was of someone working at McDonalds, not generally a highly >> respected image :-) I think it was the coke like container he was carrying >> more than anything that gave that impression rather than the waiter concept. >> To be honest, I hadn't actually noticed he was tailess. >> > > Hmm... maybe if he was carrying a computer or CDROM or something else > computer-related on the tray, rather than a soda? I do think the > image fits the "Power to Serve" theme, but not with the soda. > > Make it something that looks really heavy with him holding it up > with one arm and it'll show just what kind of "power" we have. :-) A > "fully-loaded" server chassis perhaps. How about a drawing of wcarchive? Would be entirely accurate and truthful. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 11:50: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gras-varg.worldgate.com (gras-varg.worldgate.com [198.161.84.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8597F15526 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skafte@gras-varg.worldgate.com) Received: (from skafte@localhost) by gras-varg.worldgate.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA29209 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:47:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:47:31 -0600 From: Greg Skafte To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Very interest freebsd vs netbsd comparison Message-ID: <19990418124731.A27948@gras-varg.worldgate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i Organization: WorldGate Inc. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 42 9C 2C A8 4D 2B C9 C4 7D B6 00 B0 50 47 20 97 X-URL: http://gras-varg.worldgate.com/~skafte Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.cons.org/cracauer/bsd-net-vs-free.html -- Email: skafte@worldgate.com Voice: +780 413 1910 Fax: +780 421 4929 #575 Sun Life Place * 10123 99 Street * Edmonton, AB * Canada * T5J 3H1 -- -- When things can't get any worse, they simplify themselves by getting a whole lot worse then complicated. A complete and utter disaster is the simplest thing in the world; it's preventing one that's complex. (Janet Morris) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 12: 6:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24D815599 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:06:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@cons.org) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by cons.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id VAA06658; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:03:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:03:52 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: Greg Skafte Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Very interest freebsd vs netbsd comparison Message-ID: <19990418210351.A6639@cons.org> References: <19990418124731.A27948@gras-varg.worldgate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990418124731.A27948@gras-varg.worldgate.com>; from Greg Skafte on Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 12:47:31PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <19990418124731.A27948@gras-varg.worldgate.com>, Greg Skafte wrote: > > http://www.cons.org/cracauer/bsd-net-vs-free.html Sadly, it't on the edge of being out-of-date :-) Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 13: 9:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D7B14E00 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:09:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA49768; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:06:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:06:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon In-Reply-To: <922.924458330@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Hmm... maybe if he was carrying a computer or CDROM or something else > > computer-related on the tray, rather than a soda? I do think the > > The tray *is* a CDROM. Sheesh, I didn't know there were so many art > critics here or I'd have never touched this image. :-) Sorry, didn't have my 3.1 case right here in front of me to look at it. Ok, so how about a computer on top of the cdrom instead of a soda? :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and Alpha architectures (SPARC under development). ( http://www.freebsd.org ) -- "One should admire Windows users. It takes a great deal of courage to trust Windows with your data." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 13:18:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.nostrum.com (mail.nostrum.com [206.28.8.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB4D8155CC; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:18:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pckizer@nostrum.com) Received: (from pckizer@localhost) by mail.nostrum.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA29294; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:15:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199904182015.PAA29294@mail.nostrum.com> From: Philip Kizer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:13:25 PDT." <634.924455605@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:15:57 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >A press release requires a willing press. :) So far, we haven't had >much luck there. -chuckle- Ah...good point... I'll go ahead and send a small (calm) reader type note to illiad that at least points to Charles' original article in the freebsd-chat archives. The irony of it just gets to me too much. Thanks, philip -- AKA: Philip Kizer Texas A&M CIS Operating Systems Group, Unix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 13:58:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F00214C9D for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:58:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.30.149] (rts16p20.xyp.rpi.edu [128.113.30.149]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA32042; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:55:50 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2425.924447058@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:28:09 CDT." <19990418092809.B37740@holly.dyndns.org> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:56:38 -0400 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon Cc: chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Garance Alistair Drosehn Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:50 AM -0700 4/18/99, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > ..., we just saw a need for a little variety and we'd been using > the same image for a couple of years. OK, so perhaps a tail-less > waiter wasn't the best idea for a replacement we've ever had, but > I'm still more than keen to see alternative images (and put out a > call for same long before I ever contracted for the > waiter/news/bug/docs/release related images). I had some ideas for an image back at the 3.0 release, but I seem to be having some trouble getting an artistic friend of mine to draw them up. (if I were to draw it, no one will have any clue what it is!) In addition to Jordan's request for images at the time, what got me thinking was that I wanted something which 'worked better' for multiple CPU configurations. An icon with one BSD daemon standing around can be cute-ish, but when you have two or four of them just standing there it looks more like they're just a group of loafers loitering on a street corner... So, I wanted something that implied 'harnessing power', and something which would scale up to 'multiple' of whatever was being harnessed. One idea was to have the BSD daemon in a sled, powered by something like an Alaskan malamute. The sled could be carrying CD's, or maybe it shouldn't be obvious what it's carrying. Multi-processor systems (such as web sites) could just modify this to include more malamutes (an alaskan malamute is any of a breed of powerful heavy-coated deep-chested dogs of Alaskan origin with erect ears, heavily cushioned feet, and plumy tail, used for pulling sleds). The other idea was the BSD daemon on some kind of stage-coach, being pulled by sea horses. I forget why I wanted seahorses over regular horses. Basically I haven't thought about this one quite as much as the malamute one. I think one of these could work out pretty good, if I could just get someone who was a bit faster at drawing than my friend seems to be. (it's been, what, six months now?), and considerably better at drawing than I am (unless you want some stick figures...). --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 14:53:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEF914D94 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:53:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22514; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37192FA9.157F42AC@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:04:41 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Donald Wilde , Brett Taylor , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > Actually, (sub rosa) they just sent a $25K donation to the FreeBSD > > Project. Buy some cards, guys, and let them know you appreciate their > > support! Evidently BillyG tried to muscle into their market with some of > > his typical roach-like tactics, and they won in court! > > Who exactly do we send the cards to? Core team members? The author of your favorite device driver? The person who fixed the last bug that was driving you crazy? Jordan? Bob Bruce? DG? etc. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 14:56:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECD0814CBF for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:56:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from quark.feynman.com (IDENT:fpawlak@mercury-1-157.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.86.158]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.1) id QAA30676 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:54:16 -0500 Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by quark.feynman.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA09385 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:54:30 -0500 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:54:29 -0500 From: Frank Pawlak To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD in the press Message-ID: <19990418155429.B9248@quark.feynman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG www.sunworld.com/swo1-04-1999/swo1-04-silicon.html Article is Behind the scenes of Walnut Creek CDROM. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 15: 5:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E0A14DCE for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:04:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22556; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:02:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371A5666.2B45D15A@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:02:14 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Donald Wilde , chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon References: <2129.924444738@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > Can I suggest a second cut? Take the same concept, Beastie with mirrored > > shades, and start from the existing "doughboy daemon" version, maybe > > giving him teeth in the same manner with xmorph as well as the shades? > > All the initial versions of "the punch drunk waiter" (gee, thanks Don :) > actually had teeth on the daemon and I can say that they made him > look either supremely goofy or downright evil. A new logo, to be sure, > but lose the teeth. :-) Thank you, Jordan. I was just wondering about the teeth. I think people have come to associate the "doughboy daemon" as Don puts it with FreeBSD. The logo is cool, though -- I'd love to have a big one for my laptop. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 15:26:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BFBD14D51 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:26:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10YzyR-000Lys-0K; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:23:36 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id XAA01683; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:23:05 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id XAA01024; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:19:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:19:17 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Donald Wilde , chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@freebsd.org, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Friendly Icon Message-ID: <19990418231917.B965@marder-1> References: <3719DBA9.AE45125@thuntek.net> <2129.924444738@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <2129.924444738@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 07:12:18AM -0700 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 07:12:18AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Can I suggest a second cut? Take the same concept, Beastie with mirrored > > shades, and start from the existing "doughboy daemon" version, maybe > > giving him teeth in the same manner with xmorph as well as the shades? > > All the initial versions of "the punch drunk waiter" (gee, thanks Don :) > actually had teeth on the daemon Looking at the 3.1 CD he certainly appears to have 3 teeth visible. > and I can say that they made him > look either supremely goofy or downright evil. A new logo, to be sure, > but lose the teeth. :-) > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 16: 0:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EA714F2F for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24784; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd024768; Sun Apr 18 15:58:13 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21665; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:58:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904182258.PAA21665@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Redhat Certified Engineer To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:58:12 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, marcus@miami.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990417165525.A61941@ontario.mooseriver.com> from "Josef Grosch" at Apr 17, 99 04:55:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Minus, of course, their costs such as equipment, teachers, administration, > > > etc. Yes, they made money but not 2.5x10**6 dollars. > > > > The point is, they made a profit, and there is opportunity there, > > if advocating FreeBSD isn't enough to get you interested in doing > > this type of thing, then maybe the money will be. > > > You know me, Terry. You, and any one else who knows me, know this I am > always sniffing around for money. Collecting a check is my favorite thing > to do after advocating FreeBSD. I just wanted to inject a little reality > into this discussion. > > Having FreeBSD certified Engineers is a good idea. It will make the suits > feel better about FreeBSD and allow FreeBSD-Support to weed out the bozos > from the competent. But this is not an easy task. Developing a course of > study, standardized testing, recruiting teachers, etc. is a lot of work. If > you think getting people to write documentation is tough try getting people > to write course work and teach the classes. That was a "royal you", e.g. "all you advocates", not an "accusative you", e.g. "you, Josef, personally, yeah, I'm talking to you". 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 16: 3:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AED914FAE for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA01032; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:03:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:03:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Frank Pawlak Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press In-Reply-To: <19990418155429.B9248@quark.feynman.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Frank Pawlak wrote: > www.sunworld.com/swo1-04-1999/swo1-04-silicon.html s/1/l/g That should be: http://www.sunworld.com/swol-04-1999/swol-04-silicon.html Good article, though :) Nice find. Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 16:59: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7A5414CB3 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:59:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01919; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:56:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Jasper O'Malley" Cc: Frank Pawlak , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:03:00 CDT." Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:56:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1917.924479788@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sigh, doesn't anyone look at: http://www.freebsd.org/news/press.html Anymore? :-) > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > www.sunworld.com/swo1-04-1999/swo1-04-silicon.html > > s/1/l/g > > That should be: > > http://www.sunworld.com/swol-04-1999/swol-04-silicon.html > > Good article, though :) Nice find. > > Cheers, > Mick > > The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com > Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral > Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 18:38:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A9E14BF3 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from quark.feynman.com (IDENT:fpawlak@mercury-1-144.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.86.145]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.1) id UAA04827; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:34:54 -0500 Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by quark.feynman.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA10348; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:35:08 -0500 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:35:07 -0500 From: Frank Pawlak To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Jasper O'Malley" , Frank Pawlak , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD in the press Message-ID: <19990418193507.A10341@quark.feynman.com> References: <1917.924479788@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <1917.924479788@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 04:56:28PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 04:56:28PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Sigh, doesn't anyone look at: > > http://www.freebsd.org/news/press.html > > Anymore? :-) > Apparently I don't > > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > > > www.sunworld.com/swo1-04-1999/swo1-04-silicon.html > > > > s/1/l/g > > > > That should be: > > > > http://www.sunworld.com/swol-04-1999/swol-04-silicon.html > > > > Good article, though :) Nice find. > > > > Cheers, > > Mick > > > > The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com > > Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral > > Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 19:58:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0062E14D1B for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:58:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 9462 invoked by alias); 19 Apr 1999 02:55:59 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 9415 invoked by uid 0); 19 Apr 1999 02:55:58 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 02:55:58 -0000 Message-ID: <371A9B08.D43EF686@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:55:04 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Alex Zepeda , Donald Wilde , Adrian Filipi-Martin , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: <12739.924384279@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > http://www.muttonbone.com/ewe.html > > People keep promising to send me one of these (or even one of those > two hilarious tee-shirts) but the fickle bastards never do! Grr! :-) You want one? Okay, you got it. What's your mailing address? -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 20: 8:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EA7A14BD8 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02618; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Alex Zepeda , Donald Wilde , Adrian Filipi-Martin , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:55:04 PDT." <371A9B08.D43EF686@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:05:48 -0700 Message-ID: <2616.924491148@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You want one? Okay, you got it. What's your mailing address? I think someone's already sent me the sheep, but I wouldn't say no to one of those tee-shirts. :-) You can send it to me at Walnut Creek CDROM, marked to my attention (I've already asked to make sure the other guy puts INFLATABLE LOVE SHEEP on the box in big letters since I have a reputation here to uphold! :-). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 20:42:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 581A114DEC for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 2336 invoked by alias); 19 Apr 1999 03:40:10 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 2321 invoked by uid 0); 19 Apr 1999 03:40:09 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 03:40:09 -0000 Message-ID: <371AA563.A55A1226@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:39:15 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Swingle Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: <19990414154916.A69256@dub.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You can add Pair Networks to the list. A quote from Pair's server info page [http://www.pair.com/pair/servers.html]: "Our hardware is chosen specifically for its reliability and interoperability with FreeBSD, our preferred high-performance, open-source Unix operating system." There's an interesting note at the bottom of the server configuration info page regarding server naming conventions. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 21:22: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 79B3F14E77 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 6919 invoked by alias); 19 Apr 1999 04:19:29 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 6881 invoked by uid 0); 19 Apr 1999 04:19:27 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 04:19:27 -0000 Message-ID: <371AAE9A.A4BE050B@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:18:34 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Alex Zepeda , Donald Wilde , Adrian Filipi-Martin , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: <2616.924491148@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > You want one? Okay, you got it. What's your mailing address? > > I think someone's already sent me the sheep, but I wouldn't say no to > one of those tee-shirts. :-) You can send it to me at Walnut Creek > CDROM, marked to my attention (I've already asked to make sure the > other guy puts INFLATABLE LOVE SHEEP on the box in big letters since I > have a reputation here to uphold! :-). Oh Goddess forbid you ever get reputation as a clean-cut unix guru! What size t-shirt are you? -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 22:11:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C0B614C0D for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:11:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02917; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Alex Zepeda , Donald Wilde , Adrian Filipi-Martin , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:18:34 PDT." <371AAE9A.A4BE050B@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:09:09 -0700 Message-ID: <2915.924498549@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Oh Goddess forbid you ever get reputation as a clean-cut unix guru! > What size t-shirt are you? I'm a large (well, a medium, but T-shirts shrink). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 22:30:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from toxic.magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [204.188.6.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B4AC714C0D for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:30:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from unfurl@toxic.magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 53284 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Apr 1999 05:28:18 -0000 Date: 18 Apr 1999 22:28:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:28:18 -0700 From: Bill Swingle To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990418222818.A53201@dub.net> References: <19990414154916.A69256@dub.net> <371AA563.A55A1226@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <371AA563.A55A1226@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 08:39:15PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This one has been added. :) -Bill On Sun, Apr 18, 1999 at 08:39:15PM -0700, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > You can add Pair Networks to the list. A quote from Pair's server > info page [http://www.pair.com/pair/servers.html]: > > "Our hardware is chosen specifically for its reliability and > interoperability with FreeBSD, our preferred high-performance, > open-source Unix operating system." > > There's an interesting note at the bottom of the server configuration > info page regarding server naming conventions. -- -=| Bill Swingle - -=| "I hate quotations." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -=| FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! - http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 18 22:36:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983B514DC3 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:36:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from vmunix.com (ppp-a-41.atnet.net [205.199.6.91]) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.9.2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06582; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:29:50 GMT (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Message-ID: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:33:20 -0700 From: Chris Coleman Reply-To: chrisc@vmunix.com Organization: Daemon News Monthly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: FreeBSD Graphics. Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FF610A8408FF2EF84CE52132" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FF610A8408FF2EF84CE52132 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donald, The graphics that my wife drew were an attempt to add some creativity and originality to the project. My wife prefers to do only original works. Cut and paste projects make her cringe. If you have specific guidelines for a project, please outline them in an email directly to her. Jordan, If you could outline exactly what you would like to see on a CDROM cover, I will see what my wife has time to put together. She has worked on a couple of advocacy graphics with the idea of producing something new and fresh. Something with a little zip. I have attached another graphic that my wife has created. Please keep my wife cc'd in all discussions about advocacy graphics. -Chris --------------FF610A8408FF2EF84CE52132 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Daemonquartertext.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Daemonquartertext.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAAEBLAEsAAD//gAC/9sAhAACAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC AgICAgICAgICAgIDAwICAwICAgMEAwMDAwQEBAIDBAQEBAQDBAQDAQICAgICAgICAgIDAgIC AwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwP/xAGi AAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJCgsBAAMBAQEBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAABAgMEBQYH CAkKCxAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAk M2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4 eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ 2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6EQACAQIEBAMEBwUEBAABAncAAQIDEQQFITEGEkFRB2Fx EyIygQgUQpGhscEJIzNS8BVictEKFiQ04SXxFxgZGiYnKCkqNTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVW V1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqCg4SFhoeIiYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4 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Re: Redhat Certified Engineer Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Joe@xwin.nmhtech.com, \@xwin.nmhtech.com, "Marcus\" Clarke "@xwin.nmhtech.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 16-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Joe "Marcus" Clarke wrote: >=20 >> I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it seems Redhat is offerin= g >> certification much like Cisco or Microsoft. I think a FreeBSD Ceritifed >> Engineer would be a great thing to tag to my signature. Any plan for >> this? Need any help putting something together? Is this even a good >> idea? >=20 > I'm not speaking on behalf of my companies Education Division, however: >=20 > Getting a 'course' added to any education/testing facility is difficult > because of: >=20 > (1) Machines > (2) Course Materials (the meat of the 'class') > (3) Standardized Testing > a. Levels? > b. Specialties (FreeBSD Networking, FreeBSD SysAdmin..) > (4) Instructors > (5) Location >=20 I just took a course over at a UCSC Extension and I found that they offer = a "course" on linux instalation and setup. Working With Josef Grosch I plan t= o put together a course on FreeBSD instalation and setup and offer it to them= . From what I have been told, they would be very interested in what I have planned. Nicole > All of these are big reasons why courses are so high now-a-days. >=20 > I understand that Cisco Certified people have to go to one of three place= s > in the country to finish their lab requirement, and that's just speaks to > how hard it is to coordinate such an effort. >=20 > In other words: For this to work, we would have to have standardized test= s > and corporate support, as well as a network of (qualified!) instructors. >=20 > Hope this helps, >=20 > - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp = - > - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org = - >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 1:24:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B1C514CE1 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:24:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id RAA13989; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:21:54 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <371AE733.9F0876B@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:20:03 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chrisc@vmunix.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. References: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > [FreeBSD quarter] I *loved* it! :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 1:53:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4975614F40 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:53:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03576; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: chrisc@vmunix.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:33:20 PDT." <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:50:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3574.924511851@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If you could outline exactly what you would like to see on a CDROM > cover, I will see what my wife has time to put together. If I knew exactly what I wanted, I'd probably be an artist myself. :) I'm afraid I only have the loosest of guidelines to offer: It should, of course, feature the daemon and hopefully one which doesn't look too anthropomorhic but is still "cute" and fairly faithful to his original, cherubic self. A CD should also be featured somewhere in the photo, if possible. That's about it - what he's doing beyond that is really up to the creative artist type (that's not me ;) to determine. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 1:53:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from firewall1.lehman.com (firewall1.Lehman.COM [192.147.65.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9363814FD3 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:53:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nclayton@lehman.com) Received: from relay.messaging-svcs2.lehman.com by firewall1.lehman.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) id EAA23836; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 04:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lonmailhost.lehman.com by relay.messaging-svcs2.lehman.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id EAA21184; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 04:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lonmailhost.lehman.com (SMI-8.6/Lehman Bros. V1.5) id JAA24975; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:50:50 +0100 Message-ID: <19990419095050.P14492@lehman.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:50:50 +0100 From: nclayton@lehman.com To: Terry Lambert , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Page FreeBSD should be listed on... References: <199904172213.PAA20754@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199904172213.PAA20754@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Apr 17, 1999 at 10:13:09PM +0000 Organization: Lehman Brothers Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Apr 17, 1999 at 10:13:09PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > Anyone with the actual information (or willing to dig for it) want > to contact this guy to get FreeBSD listed? > > http://www.cyclic.com/cvs/info-req.html I just sent this; N === I've just been looking at http://www.cyclic.com/cvs/info-req.html and see you list large projects using CVS. Would you care to list FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org/)? We've been using CVS since (at least) May 1994 to manage the FreeBSD source code, the ports tree, and the FreeBSD web site. In addition, you might like to point readers at CVSup, which can be found at http://www.polstra.com/projects/freeware/CVSup/ In a nutshell, this is a more intelligent replacement for "cvs update" that can drastically reduce the amount of information that needs to be transferred between a repository and users of that repository (or mirrors). When synching with the FreeBSD repository I often see an effective bandwidth of 70KB/s over my 33.6kbps modem line. CVSup is also used by other projects, include KDE and Postgres. Thanks, N nik@freebsd.org -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 3: 4:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B43C14C57 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id DAA71855 for advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:02:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:02:01 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ZD Open Source Forum Message-ID: <19990419030201.A71817@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Found this on slashdot. This is taking place in Austin, Texas on June 30 and July 1. Are we going to have a FreeBSD representive at this ? Whoever goes to this had better like heat! http://www.zdopensource.com/ Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 5:15:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1450414DC9 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 05:15:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10ZCv2-000Fac-0K; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:12:57 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from support-3.uk.radan.com (support-3 [193.114.228.220]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA02563; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:12:50 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com by support-3.uk.radan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA05082; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:12:48 +0100 Message-ID: <371B1D8B.9C13CC87@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:11:55 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: <2616.924491148@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > You want one? Okay, you got it. What's your mailing address? > > I think someone's already sent me the sheep, but I wouldn't say no to > one of those tee-shirts. :-) You can send it to me at Walnut Creek > CDROM, marked to my attention (I've already asked to make sure the > other guy puts INFLATABLE LOVE SHEEP on the box in big letters since I > have a reputation here to uphold! :-). > California - where men are men, and sheep are nervous > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 5:55:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blues.ghis.net (slwag1p25.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 309361501A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 05:55:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@blues.ghis.net) Received: (from jim@localhost) by blues.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04293; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:52:35 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:52:35 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Mark Ovens Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990419225234.A4240@blues.ghis.net> Reply-To: jim@blues.ghis.net References: <2616.924491148@zippy.cdrom.com> <371B1D8B.9C13CC87@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <371B1D8B.9C13CC87@uk.radan.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 at 13:11:55 +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > > You want one? Okay, you got it. What's your mailing address? > > > > I think someone's already sent me the sheep, but I wouldn't say no to > > one of those tee-shirts. :-) You can send it to me at Walnut Creek > > CDROM, marked to my attention (I've already asked to make sure the > > other guy puts INFLATABLE LOVE SHEEP on the box in big letters since I > > have a reputation here to uphold! :-). > > > > California - where men are men, and sheep are nervous I thought that was New Zealand.. where the men are men, the sheep are scared, and the velcro gloves are plentiful -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@blues.ghis.net ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Global Hosting Inet Svcs http://www.ghis.net/ / \ The personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 6:10: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CD86154EA for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:09:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10ZDle-0005pQ-0A; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:07:21 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from support-3.uk.radan.com (support-3 [193.114.228.220]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA02715; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:06:29 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com by support-3.uk.radan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA06000; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:06:28 +0100 Message-ID: <371B2A1F.95D64D26@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:05:35 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jim@blues.ghis.net Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: <2616.924491148@zippy.cdrom.com> <371B1D8B.9C13CC87@uk.radan.com> <19990419225234.A4240@blues.ghis.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jim Mock wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 at 13:11:55 +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > > > > You want one? Okay, you got it. What's your mailing address? > > > > > > I think someone's already sent me the sheep, but I wouldn't say no to > > > one of those tee-shirts. :-) You can send it to me at Walnut Creek > > > CDROM, marked to my attention (I've already asked to make sure the > > > other guy puts INFLATABLE LOVE SHEEP on the box in big letters since I > > > have a reputation here to uphold! :-). > > > > > > > California - where men are men, and sheep are nervous > > I thought that was New Zealand.. where the men are men, the sheep are > scared, and the velcro gloves are plentiful > New Zealand, Australia, Wales....and now California it seems ;-) What do you call 3 sheep tied to a lamp post in {Auckland,Darwin,Cardiff}? A Leisure Centre. > -- > Jim Mock System Administrator jim@blues.ghis.net ,-._|\ FreeBSD > work: Global Hosting Inet Svcs http://www.ghis.net/ / \ The > personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To > The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 6:23:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F346C15155 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:23:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24044; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:20:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371B2DB4.E44DE3B1@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:20:52 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chrisc@vmunix.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. References: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > Donald, > The graphics that my wife drew were an attempt to add some > creativity and originality to the project. My wife prefers to do only > original works. Cut and paste projects make her cringe. If you have > specific guidelines for a project, please outline them in an email > directly to her. For what it's worth, I *really* like the coin graphic, and think it's the best submission I've seen yet for the "FreeBSD logo." (Yes, I'm going to get a web page about this put together this week for Don to put up on the advocacy web site.) I'd like to see a coin with a full- length "cherubic" daemon, since that is the image people associate with FreeBSD. The bust is more coin-like, but loses a lot of the visual impact of the full daemon image that people associate with BSD. Susannah, thanks for the wonderful work you're doing for us, both "Darby Daemon" and the various other graphics you've put together. We've had nice graphics in the past, but it's really great to have someone so responsive, and to have a different viewpoint. Your images really have kick. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 6:55:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B6315568 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:54:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-061.thuntek.net [207.66.52.61]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA07561; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371B34A1.D1C9DA87@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:50:25 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chrisc@vmunix.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. References: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > Donald, > The graphics that my wife drew were an attempt to add some > creativity and originality to the project. My wife prefers to do only > original works. Cut and paste projects make her cringe. If you have > specific guidelines for a project, please outline them in an email > directly to her. Let me make myself clear, please, Chris and Susannah - I _love_ the new looks, I want as many as we can get! Like this one [the coin], it's brilliant! Only the "Branding" logo needs to resonate with the historical Daemon (IMHO), because brand recognition is so critical. The more of these new ones she can make the better! For example, the Daemon with the shades could be used as-is for a "created on" logo, for those projects our own FreeBSD-native developers come up with. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 6:57:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.cian.net (tnt-6-160.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2447514FA0 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:56:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from ukonline.co.uk (localhost.cian.net [127.0.0.1]) by wolf.cian.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA00686; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:55:09 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Message-ID: <371B35BC.D141777@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:55:08 +0100 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. References: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> <371B2DB4.E44DE3B1@softweyr.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B9F21B74945639C94EABB36A" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --------------B9F21B74945639C94EABB36A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there any chance you could animate the coin so it spins? Or is that pushing it *too* much? Perhaps the daemon on the front and the 'powered by' logo on the back? Cheers, An appreciative audience Wes Peters wrote: > Chris Coleman wrote: > > > > Donald, > > The graphics that my wife drew were an attempt to add some > > creativity and originality to the project. My wife prefers to do only > > original works. Cut and paste projects make her cringe. If you have > > specific guidelines for a project, please outline them in an email > > directly to her. > > For what it's worth, I *really* like the coin graphic, and think it's > the best submission I've seen yet for the "FreeBSD logo." (Yes, I'm > going to get a web page about this put together this week for Don to > put up on the advocacy web site.) I'd like to see a coin with a full- > length "cherubic" daemon, since that is the image people associate > with FreeBSD. The bust is more coin-like, but loses a lot of the > visual impact of the full daemon image that people associate with BSD. > > Susannah, thanks for the wonderful work you're doing for us, both > "Darby Daemon" and the various other graphics you've put together. > We've had nice graphics in the past, but it's really great to have > someone so responsive, and to have a different viewpoint. Your > images really have kick. ;^) > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- A computer is for life, not just for Christmas http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty --------------B9F21B74945639C94EABB36A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there any chance you could animate the coin so it spins?
Or is that pushing it *too* much?
Perhaps the daemon on the front and the 'powered by' logo on the back?
 

Cheers,
An appreciative audience
 
 
 
 

Wes Peters wrote:

Chris Coleman wrote:
>
> Donald,
>     The graphics that my wife drew were an attempt to add some
> creativity and originality to the project.  My wife prefers to do only
> original works.  Cut and paste projects make her cringe.  If you have
> specific guidelines for a project, please outline them in an email
> directly to her.

For what it's worth, I *really* like the coin graphic, and think it's
the best submission I've seen yet for the "FreeBSD logo."  (Yes, I'm
going to get a web page about this put together this week for Don to
put up on the advocacy web site.)  I'd like to see a coin with a full-
length "cherubic" daemon, since that is the image people associate
with FreeBSD.  The bust is more coin-like, but loses a lot of the
visual impact of the full daemon image that people associate with BSD.

Susannah, thanks for the wonderful work you're doing for us, both
"Darby Daemon" and the various other graphics you've put together.
We've had nice graphics in the past, but it's really great to have
someone so responsive, and to have a different viewpoint.  Your
images really have kick.  ;^)

--
       "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                 Softweyr LLC
http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr                      wes@softweyr.com

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message

-- 
A computer is for life, not just for Christmas
http://www.freebsd.org/
FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty
  --------------B9F21B74945639C94EABB36A-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 6:57:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC84A14FF6 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:57:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24096; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:51:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371B34D9.E31EB76C@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:51:21 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: <2616.924491148@zippy.cdrom.com> <371B1D8B.9C13CC87@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Ovens wrote: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > > You want one? Okay, you got it. What's your mailing address? > > > > I think someone's already sent me the sheep, but I wouldn't say no to > > one of those tee-shirts. :-) You can send it to me at Walnut Creek > > CDROM, marked to my attention (I've already asked to make sure the > > other guy puts INFLATABLE LOVE SHEEP on the box in big letters since I > > have a reputation here to uphold! :-). > > > > California - where men are men, and sheep are nervous "Mr. Hubbard, put down the velcro gloves and back away from the sheep!" "Honest officer, I was just helping that sheep over the fence!" Sorry, I just spent the weekend in sheep country. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 7: 9:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C76614FF6 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-061.thuntek.net [207.66.52.61]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id IAA10236; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:06:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371B37F7.EACB3FB0@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:04:39 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ZD Open Source Forum References: <19990419030201.A71817@ontario.mooseriver.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Grosch wrote: > > Found this on slashdot. This is taking place in Austin, Texas on June 30 > and July 1. Are we going to have a FreeBSD representive at this ? Whoever > goes to this had better like heat! > > http://www.zdopensource.com/ Yes, definitely. They appear to have it all sewn up as far as speakers, but we ought to be able to get a wedge in of some kind. Suits are OUR target market, we definitely shouldn't concede this event to the LINUXen. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 7:44:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BC7915588 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:44:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 4649 invoked by alias); 19 Apr 1999 14:42:11 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 4628 invoked by uid 0); 19 Apr 1999 14:42:10 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 14:42:10 -0000 Message-ID: <371B408B.B4DEF7C@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:41:15 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: <2616.924491148@zippy.cdrom.com> <371B1D8B.9C13CC87@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Ovens wrote: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > > You want one? Okay, you got it. What's your mailing address? > > > > I think someone's already sent me the sheep, but I wouldn't say no to > > one of those tee-shirts. :-) You can send it to me at Walnut Creek > > CDROM, marked to my attention (I've already asked to make sure the > > other guy puts INFLATABLE LOVE SHEEP on the box in big letters since I > > have a reputation here to uphold! :-). > > > > California - where men are men, and sheep are nervous I thought that was Australia? -- I don't like four lines! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 7:47:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B9B8015588 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:47:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 5855 invoked by alias); 19 Apr 1999 14:45:06 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 5828 invoked by uid 0); 19 Apr 1999 14:45:06 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 1999 14:45:06 -0000 Message-ID: <371B413A.FB2D2B3E@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:44:10 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. References: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> <371B2DB4.E44DE3B1@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > Chris Coleman wrote: >> Donald, >> The graphics that my wife drew were an attempt to add some >> creativity and originality to the project. My wife prefers to do only >> original works. Cut and paste projects make her cringe. If you have >> specific guidelines for a project, please outline them in an email >> directly to her. > > For what it's worth, I *really* like the coin graphic, and think it's > the best submission I've seen yet for the "FreeBSD logo." (Yes, I'm > going to get a web page about this put together this week for Don to > put up on the advocacy web site.) I'd like to see a coin with a full- > length "cherubic" daemon, since that is the image people associate > with FreeBSD. The bust is more coin-like, but loses a lot of the > visual impact of the full daemon image that people associate with BSD. And with coins being round and all, maybe it could be incorporated into a new CD label? -- I don't like four lines! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 8:48:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cons.org (knight.cons.org [194.233.237.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3711914F4A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:48:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@cons.org) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by cons.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id RAA14816; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:46:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:46:04 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/features.html Message-ID: <19990419174604.A14787@cons.org> References: <14692.924172106@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <14692.924172106@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Apr 15, 1999 at 03:28:26AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <14692.924172106@zippy.cdrom.com>, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Whatever happened to the plans to update this - Don? Here's my take, unspellchecked etc for now. Once again I invite you to give me feedback on http://www3.cons.org/cracauer/freebsd.html, sepcially on parts you may find suitable for the official FreeBSD Website. FreeBSD offers you an OpenSource operating system that focuses on stability, scalability, performance and upgradability. The FreeBSD development team reaches these goals by providing a complete operating system with everything you need for a running system. From one source, getting rid of a large number of possible incompatibilities, and freeing the user from much of the usual headaches when upgrading the system. FreeBSD is based on the well-acknowledged BSD operating system, developed at the University of California, Berkeley. BSD has been the base the base for many of the most influential UNIX derivates (i.e. SunOS and Ultrix). The TCP/IP suite - today the most important network protocol in the world - was developed as part of the BSD system. Many IP stacks in commercial OSes are still based on the BSD implementation. FreeBSD takes the final form of BSD - 4.4lite2 - and combines it with the great experience of its developers (among them are many well-regarded experts for virtual memory, networking, storage subsystems and third-party software integration) and the overwhelming testing and educated-feedback [I am such a LIAR!!!] providing manpower of an OpenSource project to take BSD to new limits. While the basic BSD system was already regarded one of the best operating systems for many purposes, FreeBSD systematically removes limitations that made BSD less that ideal for other areas. * The TCP/IP implementation that made BSD famous is still the base of FreeBSD, with suitable changes to support the large new Internet servers and new services noone dreamed of when the protocol has been developed. * The performance of FreeBSD's virtual memory system is generally regarded as one of the best. Machines with too few memory for their tasks - be it a heavily loaded big Internet server with unexpected access peaks or a laptop which just doesn't take as much memory as the user needs - will speed up dramatically under FreeBSD. The improved VM system also offers other advantages. Such as an integrated VM and filesystem cache, which avoids the difficulties many users experience when mixing applications that use different memory interfaces on other platforms. Of course, the amount of memory used for cache is tuned dynamically. An important point about the FreeBSD VM system is that it isn't rewritten from scratch. What has been done here is to tune the 4.4BSD VM system according to the measurements taken from existing systems under real workload. * FreeBSD offers environments to execute binary programs from other operating system, among them Linux, SCO UNIX, Solaris/x86, NetBSD and BSDI. These don't really count as "emulations" in the classical sense. The layers to support these OSes are very lightweight, and the libraries used to run these binaries are the native ones (of course, this implies that you need a license of these OSes to run dynamically linked binaries). As a result, the speed of non-native binaries nearly equals those of native FreeBSD binaries (and may be better than under the native OS when one of FreeBSD's performance hotspots are used by the application) and the list of binaries running without problems is very complete. A list of supported applications is here . This list goes as far as supporting X servers of other OSes and support for Linux applications that need 3dfx/Voodoo cards. An often overlooked advantage of running other OSes in FreeBSD emulation is that you can arrange the execution environment (configuration, shared libraries etc.) to be optimal for your application. This setup only affect the emulation environment, you cannot damage the basic operating system if you make a mistake as you could when both the application and the base system share an environment. Support for not so UNIX-like operating systems is generally a more problematic kind of emulation, but the MS-Windows emulator WINE - which made grat progress in the last time - runs on FreeBSD as well as on other UNIX derivates, as do several DOS emulators with specific strengths and weaknesses. * Another great strenth of FreeBSD is it's third-party-software integration system, called ports. The ports system of FreeBSD doesn't only focus on handling, installing and removing already compiled applications. The ports system also offers serious support for controlled upgrading and user-verified installation. A user who needs complete control about which applications are installed in what way will find a very transparent scheme that makes his reviewing and customizing task easy. The ports system isn't the third-party software in modified form. A port is basically a dense specification of the necessary steps to install a program on FreeBSD, from downloading, application of easy-to-verify FreeBSD-specific changes, compiling and installing, with necessary hooks to remove it later or to distribute it in compiled (binary) form. The ports system also takes care to keep configuration files of deinstalled ports so that a new install may reuse those later. The user can verify the actions a port installation will take within seconds and the ports system allows him to keep his own customizations, even those that require source changes. * FreeBSD also offers the so far best solution for the "metadata update problem". This problem is basically like this: While all modern operating systems write-cache the data you write to files and thus you are in risk to loose the contents of these files in the case of a system crash, these is also "metadata". "Metadata" is those data that isn't part of you files, but data that describes the layout of your partition and where you files live: how they are named, how old they are and which disk blocks they allocate. Write-caching this data is much more dangerous than doing so for normal data (the data *inside* your files), since a crash may cause you to loose data in files you did not tough during you work, or to loose the whole partition with all its files. Therefore, most operating systems chose to write out "metadata" synchronously, without a write cache. But this is slow and can become a major annoyance with tasks that require many file creation/deleting/renaming operations, like unpacking compressed file archives. FreeBSD's "softupdates" offer a solution that is fast *and* safe. The trick is to keep memory of all "metadata" operations, sort them and then write them to disk in an order that ensures that you will never loose data you didn't write just before. It's no black art, the cost is that this scheme took a major effort to develop. Kirk McKusick [FIXME: link] implemented such a scheme and it is available free of charge under certain circumstances. Thankfully, FreeBSD's license fits these circumstances, and members of the FreeBSD development team wrote the necessary pieces to use softupdates in FreeBSD, so most FreeBSD users will be able to use softwares with just a recompile of the kernel. * CAM [FIMXE fill this] * bootloader [FIMXE fill this] -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 9: 8: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lorax.ubergeeks.com (lorax.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C121537A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:08:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by lorax.ubergeeks.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA01078; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:54:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:54:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Wes Peters Cc: Donald Wilde , Brett Taylor , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <37192FA9.157F42AC@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > > > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > > > Actually, (sub rosa) they just sent a $25K donation to the FreeBSD > > > Project. Buy some cards, guys, and let them know you appreciate their > > > support! Evidently BillyG tried to muscle into their market with some of > > > his typical roach-like tactics, and they won in court! > > > > Who exactly do we send the cards to? > > Core team members? The author of your favorite device driver? The > person who fixed the last bug that was driving you crazy? Jordan? > Bob Bruce? DG? etc. ;^) I know what commitment all of the above have to the FreeBSD project and its success. That's not news to me. What I was looking for was who found the project deserving enough to drop $25K on it. I doubt your telling me the core and possibly the committers tossed $25K in a hat to pat themselves on the back for a job well done. (Not that I wouldn't give such a pat myself any of the above were in arms reach.) Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 9:19:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9AC6152A7 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:19:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05481; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904191615.JAA05481@implode.root.com> To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Wes Peters , Donald Wilde , Brett Taylor , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:54:29 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:15:11 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > >> Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: >> > >> > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: >> > >> > > Actually, (sub rosa) they just sent a $25K donation to the FreeBSD >> > > Project. Buy some cards, guys, and let them know you appreciate their >> > > support! Evidently BillyG tried to muscle into their market with some of >> > > his typical roach-like tactics, and they won in court! >> > >> > Who exactly do we send the cards to? >> >> Core team members? The author of your favorite device driver? The >> person who fixed the last bug that was driving you crazy? Jordan? >> Bob Bruce? DG? etc. ;^) > > I know what commitment all of the above have to the FreeBSD project >and its success. That's not news to me. > > What I was looking for was who found the project deserving enough >to drop $25K on it. I doubt your telling me the core and possibly the >committers tossed $25K in a hat to pat themselves on the back for a job >well done. (Not that I wouldn't give such a pat myself any of the above >were in arms reach.) The context of all of this discussion seems to have been lost. The card company, Blue Mountain Arts gave the project $25K, and people are suggesting that we purchase electronic greeting cards from them in appreciation. Who you send them to is irrelevent. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 9:35:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70AD15011 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:35:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <2RSVN4MS>; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:31:02 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: dg@root.com, adrian@ubergeeks.com Cc: wes@softweyr.com, dwilde1@thuntek.net, brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: sites running FreeBSD Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:30:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: David Greenman [mailto:dg@root.com] > Sent: 19 April 1999 17:15 > To: Adrian Filipi-Martin > Cc: Wes Peters; Donald Wilde; Brett Taylor; > freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD > > > The context of all of this discussion seems to have been > lost. The card > company, Blue Mountain Arts gave the > project $25K, > and people are suggesting that we purchase electronic > greeting cards from > them in appreciation. Who you send them to is irrelevent. What happens to FreeBSD donations? Perhaps an annual report on the state of the project could include its finances and how donations have been spent. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 10:43:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8C914D0A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:43:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id KAA18432; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id KAA12551; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:39:28 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA06150; Mon, 19 Apr 99 10:39:20 PDT Message-Id: <371B6A48.B31D439E@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:39:20 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Donald Wilde , Brett Taylor , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > > > > > Actually, (sub rosa) they just sent a $25K donation to the FreeBSD > > > > Project. Buy some cards, guys, and let them know you appreciate their > > > > support! Evidently BillyG tried to muscle into their market with some of > > > > his typical roach-like tactics, and they won in court! > > > > > > Who exactly do we send the cards to? > > > > Core team members? The author of your favorite device driver? The > > person who fixed the last bug that was driving you crazy? Jordan? > > Bob Bruce? DG? etc. ;^) > > I know what commitment all of the above have to the FreeBSD project > and its success. That's not news to me. > > What I was looking for was who found the project deserving enough > to drop $25K on it. I doubt your telling me the core and possibly the > committers tossed $25K in a hat to pat themselves on the back for a job > well done. (Not that I wouldn't give such a pat myself any of the above > were in arms reach.) I mis-understood, as apparently you did too. The people you buy the cards from are the ones who contributed $25K. Sending cards to ANYONE will help them (help us). Unfortunately, their URL has been lost in this thread, but I'm sure you'll be able to find it in the archives. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 11: 5:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E22C150E8 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05624; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:02:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: dg@root.com, adrian@ubergeeks.com, wes@softweyr.com, dwilde1@thuntek.net, brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:30:54 BST." Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:02:46 -0700 Message-ID: <5622.924544966@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What happens to FreeBSD donations? Right now, because we're still not talking about a lot of money (and I should note that the Blue Mountain comment was more than a little premature since I haven't actually received *anything* yet :), it basically goes to buying small bits of hardware here and there for various developers to do their work. It's also paid for things in the past like our web page makeover. > Perhaps an annual report on the state of the project could include its > finances and how donations have been spent. I'll try and put a summary together each year, sure. It's basically just a matter of looking over the cancelled checks. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 11:20:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from traveler.e-scape.net (sentry.e-scape.net [207.245.48.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A0F914C8E for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:19:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefanos@traveler.e-scape.net) Received: by traveler.e-scape.net (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA01492; Mon, 19 Apr 99 14:16:04 -0400 Message-Id: <9904191816.AA01492@traveler.e-scape.net> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 2.0b5) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Kiakas Date: Mon, 19 Apr 99 14:16:03 -0400 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. Reply-To: stefanos@traveler.e-scape.net References: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Over the last couple of months there have been quite a few FreeBSD image links posted to this list. I was searching for them to create a Web page that links them but it seems some have disappeared (they are no longer at the URL posted or I cannot find the URL in the mailing list archive for some I belive were posted to this list. :) Would any one else be interested in such a resource? More importantly would the artists be willing to make their work available? Stefanos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 12:17:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9197C158F0; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <2RSVN4S5>; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:13:03 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, pckizer@nostrum.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Charles Henrich a Star? Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:12:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordan K. Hubbard [mailto:jkh@zippy.cdrom.com] > Sent: 18 April 1999 18:13 > To: Philip Kizer > Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? > > > > Is there a press release yet for that one to which we can > point people? > > A press release requires a willing press. :) So far, we haven't had > much luck there. I take your point but actually, a press release is something we write and "release to the press", whether they print it or not is another matter :-) In this case it would be useful if someone could write something about the fact that matrix had special effects done with FreeBSD so that anyone with access to the press has the article to draw on. I'd be more than happy to get an article out to the press in the UK but I'm not in a position to write anything on this one since the film's not released over here and I'd never heard of it until it came up on this list. I will do a publicity push around this film when it gets to the UK if someone in the US can co-operate with me to write the release, I just don't have the info to do it at the moment. Paul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 12:23:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD4115392; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06255; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:20:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: pckizer@nostrum.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:12:55 BST." Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:20:38 -0700 Message-ID: <6253.924549638@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I take your point but actually, a press release is something we write and > "release to the press", whether they print it or not is another matter :-) So far, the press that we know of (and most of us don't have much in the way of press contacts, I certainly don't) has not printed it. :( > In this case it would be useful if someone could write something about the > fact that matrix had special effects done with FreeBSD so that anyone with > access to the press has the article to draw on. See http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/matrix.html That's all I've had in the way of "press material" and, as I've said here many times, I suck at writing actual press releases so that's all you're going to get. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 12:30:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9343315836 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:30:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA241624821; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:13:41 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:13:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <2616.924491148@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > I think someone's already sent me the sheep, but I wouldn't say no to > one of those tee-shirts. :-) You can send it to me at Walnut Creek > CDROM, marked to my attention (I've already asked to make sure the > other guy puts INFLATABLE LOVE SHEEP on the box in big letters since I > have a reputation here to uphold! :-). Bring this to Freenix for the FreeBSD booth, that'll attract attention. I'll bring a permanent marker to spice things up as well. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 12:44:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D15E115098; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA246845627; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:27:07 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:27:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <6253.924549638@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > See http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/matrix.html This won't work, see below. > That's all I've had in the way of "press material" and, as I've said > here many times, I suck at writing actual press releases so that's > all you're going to get. :-) The company that used FreeBSD should make the press release, not FreeBSD. It's convincing and powerful to say "We used FreeBSD to do special effects for 'The Matrix'", directly from the mouths of the people in the credits. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 12:47:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37440156F2; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:47:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.237]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA3860; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:44:49 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00592; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:44:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:44:58 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----FW: <199904191852.OAA00584@grosse.fugue.com>----- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:52:14 -0400 Sender: netbsd-advocacy-owner@NetBSD.ORG From: Ted Lemon To: Michael Graff Subject: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. Cc: Dave McGuire , Paul Newhouse , current-users@netbsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org > I have long thought that NetBSD needs a single leader, rather than > "core." Linux has Linux, FreeBSD has Jordan, and NetBSD has a > committee. NetBSD doesn't need an autocrat. NetBSD needs people to stop displaying their egos so boldly. We all want to help, and are doing good work. That's good, and we should be happy about it. _MelloN_ --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- What? We have a leader like Linus? =) See Jordan, told you you were dubbed out great leader *big grin* Now let's make a Cinderella out of you akin to Linus *evil grin* --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 12:59:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6C1156A6 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:59:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990419195828.YMYK5596385.mta1-rme@wocker>; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:58:28 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Jim Mock Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:56:47 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990419225234.A4240@blues.ghis.net> References: <371B1D8B.9C13CC87@uk.radan.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990419195828.YMYK5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19 Apr 99, at 22:52, Jim Mock wrote: > I thought that was New Zealand.. where the men are men, the sheep are > scared, and the velcro gloves are plentiful OI! Those are my velcro gloves. Bring yer own in June. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 13:30:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448E714C19; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA263958382; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:13:02 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:13:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > See Jordan, told you you were dubbed out great leader *big grin* > > Now let's make a Cinderella out of you akin to Linus *evil grin* Nothing could make Jordan a Cinderella. :-> - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 13:37: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from skynet.my.domain (ppp54.internexus.net [206.152.14.246]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956C814F4A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cliff@cliffsworld.com) Received: from cliffsworld.com (localhost.my.domain [127.0.0.1]) by skynet.my.domain (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA00856 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:37:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cliff@cliffsworld.com) Message-ID: <371B941D.3CEF051D@cliffsworld.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:37:49 -0400 From: cliff ainsworth III X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready(Jordan) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have long thought that NetBSD needs a single leader, rather than > > "core." Linux has Linux, FreeBSD has Jordan, and NetBSD has a > > committee. > > NetBSD doesn't need an autocrat. NetBSD needs people to stop > displaying their egos so boldly. We all want to help, and are doing > good work. That's good, and we should be happy about it. > > _MelloN_ > > --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- > > What? We have a leader like Linus? =) > > See Jordan, told you you were dubbed out great leader *big grin* > > Now let's make a Cinderella out of you akin to Linus *evil grin* I was curious how long it take for that posting to appear on our list. Wasn't that the same reason Theo spun off from their project oh so long ago. Notice how they forgot to even mention "OpenBSD has Theo". I am on a few of the other *BSD lists. If I had to make a quick judgement on which advocacy group has it act together the most its ours. OpenBSD advocacy is about where we were last summer or so when started choosing the "Power to Serve" slogan. NetBSD needs a little bit of work in their advocacy. It must be a bummer to have a good product but not have a good team to help advocate or keep the "core" together. I guess that "posting" is a compliment to all involved with FreeBSD, from Jordan on down. Another funny one I think was posted on the OpenBSD list involved daemon news. I think they complained that it was too FreeBSD centric. Hmmmm..... lets see..... it started on the FreeBSD Advocacy list and we incorporated the other BSD groups. And nothing prevents any of them from submitting numerous articles to d-news.Then a short time later FreeBSD had its own 'zine. Everybody got what they wanted. IMHO..maybe Open/NetBSDers should subscribe to our advocacy list and learn a little. I don't mean that as a negative or omnipotent comment either. What helps us should help them and vice versa. Its also possible that it is easier for us to get great ideas into action because of our iuser base as compared to theirs. Do we have a number of users compared to Open/NetBSD users? -cliff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 13:44:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3FB1505E for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA269309229; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:27:09 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: cliff ainsworth III Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready(Jordan) In-Reply-To: <371B941D.3CEF051D@cliffsworld.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, cliff ainsworth III wrote: > FreeBSD, from Jordan on down. Another funny one I think was posted on > the OpenBSD list involved daemon news. I think they complained that it > was too FreeBSD centric. Hmmmm..... lets see..... it started on the After the latest article on how anal OpenBSD commits are, I'm as thrilled as a pig in shit not to develop for OpenBSD. I can't believe the people involved with that article thought that the "rules" made sense. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 13:56:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA25B15846 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:56:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-131.thuntek.net [207.66.52.131]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA08467; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371B9767.53224D81@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:51:51 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > The company that used FreeBSD should make the press release, not FreeBSD. > > It's convincing and powerful to say "We used FreeBSD to do special effects > for 'The Matrix'", directly from the mouths of the people in the credits. > I've been tryiing to get permission to put the words in Manex' and Time-Warner's mouths to do just this, but evidently Charles hasn't gotten anywhere with getting permission. Since that appears to be the case, I'm going to do the next best thing, which, as Paul put it, is to write it, broadcast it and hope they print it. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 13:57:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03C71563B for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-131.thuntek.net [207.66.52.131]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA08646; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:55:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371B97C7.64299682@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:53:27 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stefanos@sentry.e-scape.net Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. References: <371AC020.5E8CC0BD@vmunix.com> <9904191816.AA01492@traveler.e-scape.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Our revamped "advocacy website is Almost Ready For Prime Time... for a sneak preview, including most of the graphics resources, please see http://advocacy.freebsd.org... -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 14: 1:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8AF15805 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:01:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24486; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:58:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:58:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Taylor To: cliff ainsworth III Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready(Jordan) In-Reply-To: <371B941D.3CEF051D@cliffsworld.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, cliff ainsworth III wrote: > Another funny one I think was posted on the OpenBSD list involved > daemon news. I think they complained that it was too FreeBSD centric. > Hmmmm..... lets see..... it started on the FreeBSD Advocacy list and > we incorporated the other BSD groups. And nothing prevents any of them > from submitting numerous articles to d-news.Then a short time later > FreeBSD had its own 'zine. Everybody got what they wanted. Chris and I specifically went looking for contributors from all of the BSDs when we started DN. Ejovi Nuwere came on at the beginning and has been an off and on contributor since then (there's a nice one about his trip to Japan coming out next month). We even have our first BSD/OS contributor (in theory - nothing from him yet). We have a number of people from NetBSD doing stuff but not a whole bunch of them. The team certainly is dominated by the FreeBSD folks, primarily I think because there are more FreeBSD users overall so there's a bigger pool there. As noted, it also started out on the FreeBSD list. We'd be more than happy to receive articles from any of the BSDs. :-) Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 14: 6:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB8D1564E for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06736; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:04:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: cliff ainsworth III Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready(Jordan) In-Reply-To: <371B941D.3CEF051D@cliffsworld.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > the OpenBSD list involved daemon news. I think they complained that it > was too FreeBSD centric. I have worked hard to clear up this misconception. I have made some personal invitations to the openbsd lists to solicit their articles. They have been sending in articles in much more frequently now. I have even asked BSDI to join the Daemon News. I have had a small response, yet it looks hopeful. > IMHO..maybe Open/NetBSDers should subscribe to our advocacy list and > learn a little. I don't mean that as a negative or omnipotent comment > either. What helps us should help them and vice versa. Its also possible > that it is easier for us to get great ideas into action because of our > iuser base as compared to theirs. Do we have a number of users compared > to Open/NetBSD users? I'd like to see alot more cooperation between the *BSD groups. A gain for any one of them is a boost for all of us. I already have written two editorials on how *BSD needs to get it act together and cooperate in advocacy. FreeBSD seems to do too much in-fighting in its advocacy list But, I guess that is just growing pains. -Chris Coleman Daemon News Editor in Chief http://www.daemonnews.org > > > -cliff > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 14:38:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6905E15661 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:38:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.237]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1D9E; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:19:16 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02998; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:19:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <371B941D.3CEF051D@cliffsworld.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:19:22 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: cliff ainsworth III Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready(Jordan) Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-Apr-99 cliff ainsworth III wrote: > Another funny one I think was posted on > the OpenBSD list involved daemon news. I think they complained that it > was too FreeBSD centric. Hmmmm..... lets see..... it started on the > FreeBSD Advocacy list and we incorporated the other BSD groups. And > nothing prevents any of them from submitting numerous articles to > d-news.Then a short time later FreeBSD had its own 'zine. Everybody got > what they wanted. Funny you should mention that... I spoke with Theo about making hints about www.freebsdzine.org to it's users just for being a reference site for tutorials not even FreeBSD specific (ok, so we all run FreeBSD as our primary OS ;) and the reaction was quite what people told me Theo would be like... *sigh* Ah well, at least the NetBSD folks are pleasant to hang with ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 14:56:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FBC14C3E; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA03319; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:09:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:09:37 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Bill Fumerola Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > See http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/matrix.html > > This won't work, see below. > > > That's all I've had in the way of "press material" and, as I've said > > here many times, I suck at writing actual press releases so that's > > all you're going to get. :-) > > The company that used FreeBSD should make the press release, not FreeBSD. > > It's convincing and powerful to say "We used FreeBSD to do special effects > for 'The Matrix'", directly from the mouths of the people in the credits. I can only dream how cool it would have been to see: "The Matrix was powered by FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org/)" Or something like that at the bottom of the credits.... -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 15:18:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B548214BDD for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA22708; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA22740; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:14:53 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA19873; Mon, 19 Apr 99 15:14:46 PDT Message-Id: <371BAAD5.D71011EC@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:14:45 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Taylor Cc: cliff ainsworth III , FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready(Jordan) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett Taylor wrote: > > Hi, > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, cliff ainsworth III wrote: > > > Another funny one I think was posted on the OpenBSD list involved > > daemon news. I think they complained that it was too FreeBSD centric. > > Hmmmm..... lets see..... it started on the FreeBSD Advocacy list and > > we incorporated the other BSD groups. And nothing prevents any of them > > from submitting numerous articles to d-news.Then a short time later > > FreeBSD had its own 'zine. Everybody got what they wanted. > > Chris and I specifically went looking for contributors from all of the > BSDs when we started DN. Ejovi Nuwere came on at the beginning and has > been an off and on contributor since then (there's a nice one about his > trip to Japan coming out next month). We even have our first BSD/OS > contributor (in theory - nothing from him yet). We have a number of > people from NetBSD doing stuff but not a whole bunch of them. The team > certainly is dominated by the FreeBSD folks, primarily I think because > there are more FreeBSD users overall so there's a bigger pool there. As > noted, it also started out on the FreeBSD list. > > We'd be more than happy to receive articles from any of the BSDs. :-) And the regular columnists try to be careful about showing a FreeBSD (or any other BSD) bias, to "spread the wealth." I have a NetBSD system at home, and try to mention NetBSD, OpenBSD, RTMX, and even BSD/OS whenever it makes sense or I can find a quote. I belong to a private informal mailing list with two other DN columnists where we review each others columns, and we often discuss the applicability of various commands, features, etc., to NetBSD and OpenBSD, though we are all primarily FreeBSD users. (And no, you can't join the list, that's what PRIVATE means. ;^) FreeBSD seems to have more users than all of the above put together, so it's natural FreeBSD will get the most attention. That doesn't equate to any sort of conspiracy against the other BSD systems. We have actively and openly recruited them. I think the entire DN staff will agree we would absolutely LOVE to get an article from Theo, on just about any topic. Even a "puff piece" on who Theo is would get published, as would such pieces on other BSD "legendaries." Except maybe Jordan -- how much personal life can a perl script have? Maybe we can interview his cats and get the scoop on what he's really like. ;^} -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 15:19:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E32A15201; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:19:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA22724; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA22800; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:16:37 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA19971; Mon, 19 Apr 99 15:16:29 PDT Message-Id: <371BAB3D.C416F8BA@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:16:29 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > > See Jordan, told you you were dubbed out great leader *big grin* > > > > Now let's make a Cinderella out of you akin to Linus *evil grin* > > Nothing could make Jordan a Cinderella. :-> LOTs of expensive surgery, but I'm *certain* we have better ways to spend our meager funds. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 15:25:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3BB151C5; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.33]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA60FE; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:23:10 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03293; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:23:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <371BAB3D.C416F8BA@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:23:20 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Wes Peters Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD Advocacy , Bill Fumerola Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-Apr-99 Wes Peters wrote: > Bill Fumerola wrote: >> >> On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> >> > See Jordan, told you you were dubbed out great leader *big grin* >> > >> > Now let's make a Cinderella out of you akin to Linus *evil grin* >> >> Nothing could make Jordan a Cinderella. :-> > > LOTs of expensive surgery, but I'm *certain* we have better ways > to spend our meager funds. ;^) Well, didn't WC get $25k from Blue Mountain? It might be because they wanted our exhalted leader to look at least presentable (by means of plastic surgery)... =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 16:46:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688C514BF9; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07370; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:43:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Bill Fumerola Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:27:07 EDT." Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:43:44 -0700 Message-ID: <7368.924565424@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It's convincing and powerful to say "We used FreeBSD to do special effects > for 'The Matrix'", directly from the mouths of the people in the credits. I believe Don has been pursuing that with Manex, but I don't know if he's had much luck. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 17: 1: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB4814DCF; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:01:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07455; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:58:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:44:58 +0200." Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:58:26 -0700 Message-ID: <7453.924566306@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What? We have a leader like Linus? =) > > See Jordan, told you you were dubbed out great leader *big grin* BAAAAAAAH! I don't know where Michael got that idea - we have a core team just like NetBSD and they do, indeed, make the decisions. I have to present my radical ideas to them for approval just like everybody else. :-) What NetBSD could probably use, however, is a PR meister. That much is true. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 19: 7:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-18.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A7115035 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:07:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA01121; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:04:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Jim Mock Cc: Mark Ovens , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sites running FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990419225234.A4240@blues.ghis.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Jim Mock wrote: > > California - where men are men, and sheep are nervous > > I thought that was New Zealand.. where the men are men, the sheep are > scared, and the velcro gloves are plentiful Bah, who needs velcro, when you've got epoxy! - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 19:25:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737A614E58 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:25:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 69FA219A5; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:21:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6406326; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:21:59 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:21:59 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle To: Kiakas Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. In-Reply-To: <9904191816.AA01492@traveler.e-scape.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Kiakas wrote: > > Over the last couple of months there have been quite a few FreeBSD > image links posted to this list. I was searching for them to create a Web > page that links them but it seems some have disappeared (they are no > longer at the URL posted or I cannot find the URL in the mailing list > archive for some I belive were posted to this list. :) > > Would any one else be interested in such a resource? More > importantly would the artists be willing to make their work available? > > > all the freebsd artwork that we know about is at http://advoacacy.freebsd.org its still under construction but if you have somthing to add let me know rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 21: 0:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CA05C156C2 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:00:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 9004 invoked by alias); 20 Apr 1999 03:57:47 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 8967 invoked by uid 0); 20 Apr 1999 03:57:46 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 03:57:46 -0000 Message-ID: <371BFB3B.7BC338E1@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:57:47 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: Bill Fumerola , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. References: <371BAB3D.C416F8BA@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > Bill Fumerola wrote: >> On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >>> See Jordan, told you you were dubbed out great leader *big grin* >>> >>> Now let's make a Cinderella out of you akin to Linus *evil grin* >> >> Nothing could make Jordan a Cinderella. :-> > > LOTs of expensive surgery, but I'm *certain* we have better ways > to spend our meager funds. ;^) You mean to tell me, that in San Francisco, with one of the greatest and most knowledgable drag queen populations in the worls, that you can't make a guy like Jordan look like a girl? -- I don't like four lines! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 21:23:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-28.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AEAA155FE; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA62239; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:20:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:20:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. In-Reply-To: <371BFB3B.7BC338E1@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > You mean to tell me, that in San Francisco, with one of the greatest > and most knowledgable drag queen populations in the worls, that you > can't make a guy like Jordan look like a girl? Nothing twenty pounds of duct tape, and some strategically placed crisco can't solve, but the true question is: would a sober Jordan oblige? - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 21:49:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1B614C29; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08992; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:47:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:57:47 PDT." <371BFB3B.7BC338E1@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:47:02 -0700 Message-ID: <8990.924583622@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I really don't like where this thread is going, guys. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 22:12:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C9714F64; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.58.51]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA2B37; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:09:42 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01167; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:09:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7453.924566306@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:09:54 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD Advocacy Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-Apr-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > What NetBSD could probably use, however, is a PR meister. That much > is true. Guess what they are gathering up right now? =) And yes Walnut Creek is being mentioned... (ok blame that one on me) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 22:25:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D291C156CD for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 29473 invoked by alias); 20 Apr 1999 05:23:21 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 29434 invoked by uid 0); 20 Apr 1999 05:23:20 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 05:23:20 -0000 Message-ID: <371C0F4A.45AD508C@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:23:22 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex Zepeda wrote: > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: >> You mean to tell me, that in San Francisco, with one of the greatest >> and most knowledgable drag queen populations in the worls, that you >> can't make a guy like Jordan look like a girl? > > Nothing twenty pounds of duct tape, and some strategically placed crisco > can't solve, but the true question is: would a sober Jordan oblige? Could you get him drunk enough in the first place? -- I don't like four lines! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 22:27:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9567A15172 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 443 invoked by alias); 20 Apr 1999 05:24:46 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 339 invoked by uid 0); 20 Apr 1999 05:24:39 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 05:24:38 -0000 Message-ID: <371C0F97.F0416E3C@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:24:39 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. References: <8990.924583622@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > I really don't like where this thread is going, guys. :-) Oh don't worry, Jordan. The video tape won't make it to the press, we promise. ;-) -- I don't like four lines! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 22:30:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD5115172 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:30:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.128]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990420053007.EPVD5596385.mta1-rme@wocker>; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:30:07 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Darren Pilgrim Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:28:28 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy In-reply-to: <371C0F97.F0416E3C@uswest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990420053007.EPVD5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19 Apr 99, at 22:24, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > I really don't like where this thread is going, guys. :-) > > Oh don't worry, Jordan. The video tape won't make it to the press, > we promise. ;-) Can it be included on CDs of the next release? -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 22:43:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20BC9156A5; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA22123; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:10:34 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA45463; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:10:32 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990420151032.X40482@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:10:32 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Darren Pilgrim , Alex Zepeda Cc: Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Chat , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Changing Jordan to Cinderella (was: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready.) References: <371C0F4A.45AD508C@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <371C0F4A.45AD508C@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Mon, Apr 19, 1999 at 10:23:22PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [moved to -chat before I get yet another chewing-out] On Monday, 19 April 1999 at 22:23:22 -0700, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Alex Zepeda wrote: >> On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: >>> You mean to tell me, that in San Francisco, with one of the greatest >>> and most knowledgable drag queen populations in the worls, that you >>> can't make a guy like Jordan look like a girl? >> >> Nothing twenty pounds of duct tape, and some strategically placed crisco >> can't solve, but the true question is: would a sober Jordan oblige? > > Could you get him drunk enough in the first place? I don't think so. He doesn't drink. Another thing that makes me suspicious. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 22:43:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E7F2156F3 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 25440 invoked by alias); 20 Apr 1999 05:41:05 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 25394 invoked by uid 0); 20 Apr 1999 05:41:02 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 05:41:02 -0000 Message-ID: <371C1370.8F755597@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:41:04 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. References: <19990420053007.EPVD5596385.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > On 19 Apr 99, at 22:24, Darren Pilgrim wrote: >> "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >>> >>> I really don't like where this thread is going, guys. :-) >> >> Oh don't worry, Jordan. The video tape won't make it to the press, >> we promise. ;-) > > Can it be included on CDs of the next release? Now, now, Jordan's got a reputation to uphold! -- I don't like four lines! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 22:54:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5683E1534A for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:54:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from vmunix.com (ppp-a-45.atnet.net [205.199.6.95]) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.9.2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09838; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:47:39 GMT (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Message-ID: <371C15CD.A5EF0A33@vmunix.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:51:09 -0700 From: Chris Coleman Reply-To: chrisc@vmunix.com Organization: Daemon News Monthly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: poohsannah@hotmail.com Subject: Yield to FreeBSD Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D9B8822769EC0201721935D8" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D9B8822769EC0201721935D8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have attached the latest two .gifs my wife has drawn. Send her your feed back, and post them to the advocacy page if you like them. We are kind of just wading through some ideas to see what works. -Chris --------------D9B8822769EC0201721935D8 Content-Type: image/gif; name="YieldtoFreeBSD.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="YieldtoFreeBSD.GIF" R0lGODdhogCiAPcAAP//////5v393vb29vfy0e7u7tX6vebm5ubmzb3/qN7e3vbPstXV1c3N zYT/dMXFxbLRnNW7qcXBtO6wnL29vVX/S2D0VO6fhpjLg7Syr/+kCDn/NP+kAJ22kS//J/+c APadCPacAOycDO6cAN6Le/aUABj/GO6UCO6UAOODc+OUEOaUAN6FVAj/COCPCOZ5auaLAAD/ AOZ1Yd6LANWLENWLCNWLAAD2AMWGHtWDAONqWsyDCM2DAMWDEADqAMWDAImJdwTeBLl/EMV7 AN5eUr17CL17ADm0MbN5G95aSrR7CADVALRzCLZzAN5SQapzEKxzCM9VR6xzAH51cJ9sRt5I OaxqCADBAKpqAKRqEKRqCJxqEN5BMZxqCI9mHJxiCJRiCNM5MdU5KY9gEJRaANUxKdUxIIta CAGhAV9iUoNaEINaCNUpINUpGIZPGoNSCINSAHxSEACUAItBOXtSCGJSStUgGHtSAHNSEHNS CNEgEM0gGACLAFJSUlJSSntKAHNKENUYEHNKCF1KQXNKALAlGs0YEGpKEGpKCMUYEGJKEEpK SnRAA70YEDFaKWpBALQYEGJBEGJBAKwYEF5BCFpBEFVAGEFBQQBsAGI5AKwQEFo5EKQSEFo5 CFo5AFI5EKQQCEw2KVI5CDk8MZwQCDk5OUc5EJQQEJQQCGIpCFIxAEoxEHsYEIsQCEoxCEox 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Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Darren Pilgrim , Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex Zepeda wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > > You mean to tell me, that in San Francisco, with one of the greatest > > and most knowledgable drag queen populations in the worls, that you > > can't make a guy like Jordan look like a girl? > > Nothing twenty pounds of duct tape, and some strategically placed crisco > can't solve, but the true question is: would a sober Jordan oblige? Easy, people. Remove perl from freefall and do it while Jordan is crashed. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 23:39:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F9814C06 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:39:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA21119 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:53:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:53:17 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: You can take my source. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Am i doing my part? :) -Alfred ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:52:08 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: flux@microsoft.com Subject: You can take my source. In re: http://www.microsoft.com/mind/0599/flux/flux0599.htm I think you need to take into account that not all "free software" is copylefted or 'GPL' You conviently neglect to mention (as most people do) the BSD license. The BSD license allows for closed source swallowing of the code it protects, however makes two stipulations: a) credit is given somehow (redistributed source must retain the copyright) b) you can't hold the author liable for the program's behavior, (similar to what EVERY piece of commercial software out there makes you sign an agreement on) here is a sample of the BSD "open source" license: /* * Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. * (c) UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. * All or some portions of this file are derived from material licensed * to the University of California by American Telephone and Telegraph * Co. or Unix System Laboratories, Inc. and are reproduced herein with * the permission of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by the University of * California, Berkeley and its contributors. * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software * without specific prior written permission. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. * * @(#)kern_exit.c 8.7 (Berkeley) 2/12/94 * $Id: kern_exit.c,v 1.78 1999/04/17 08:36:04 peter Exp $ */ Several high performance appliances are based on BSD code with BSD licensing, (NetAPP, Whistle's "Interjet", cisco, BSDI's bsd/os) By lumping all free software into one catagory you do the BSD community a big disservice, please do more research next time. You can start at http://www.freebsd.org, http://www.netbsd.org, http://www.openbsd.org I also have to say that your prediction that open source will doom the software industry is absurd. Just think about how much more in R&D (the most expensive part of making software) is spent because companies are afraid to share code amongst themselves? I have nothing against propriatary software when it works and has all the features I need, but when something trully needs fixing it's a godsend to have source availble. Wouldn't it be nice to get emails with patches to fix bugs in Windows rather than call after call, after call for support? Oh, wait... I just remeber, you guys are now 100% pay per incident.... *sigh* -Alfred Perlstein To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 23:42:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC5515343 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:42:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA22362; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:10:05 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA45593; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:10:03 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990420161003.Y40482@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:10:03 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Alfred Perlstein , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You can take my source. (fwd) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Tue, Apr 20, 1999 at 01:53:17AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 20 April 1999 at 1:53:17 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * (c) UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. > * All or some portions of this file are derived from material licensed > * to the University of California by American Telephone and Telegraph > * Co. or Unix System Laboratories, Inc. and are reproduced herein with > * the permission of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. > > Am i doing my part? :) I'm not sure. I would think you could have chosen a better example. If you have really sent this to Microsoft, I think you should at least retract your statement. Greg > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:52:08 -0500 (EST) > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: flux@microsoft.com > Subject: You can take my source. > > > In re: http://www.microsoft.com/mind/0599/flux/flux0599.htm > > I think you need to take into account that not all "free software" > is copylefted or 'GPL' > > You conviently neglect to mention (as most people do) the BSD license. > > The BSD license allows for closed source swallowing of the code > it protects, however makes two stipulations: > > a) credit is given somehow (redistributed source must retain the > copyright) > b) you can't hold the author liable for the program's behavior, > (similar to what EVERY piece of commercial software out there > makes you sign an agreement on) > > here is a sample of the BSD "open source" license: > > /* > * Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 > * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > * (c) UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. > * All or some portions of this file are derived from material licensed > * to the University of California by American Telephone and Telegraph > * Co. or Unix System Laboratories, Inc. and are reproduced herein with > * the permission of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. > * > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > * are met: > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. > * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > * must display the following acknowledgement: > * This product includes software developed by the University of > * California, Berkeley and its contributors. > * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors > * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software > * without specific prior written permission. > * > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE > * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > * > * @(#)kern_exit.c 8.7 (Berkeley) 2/12/94 > * $Id: kern_exit.c,v 1.78 1999/04/17 08:36:04 peter Exp $ > */ > > Several high performance appliances are based on BSD code with BSD > licensing, (NetAPP, Whistle's "Interjet", cisco, BSDI's bsd/os) > > By lumping all free software into one catagory you do the BSD community > a big disservice, please do more research next time. > > You can start at http://www.freebsd.org, http://www.netbsd.org, > http://www.openbsd.org > > I also have to say that your prediction that open source will doom the > software industry is absurd. Just think about how much more in R&D > (the most expensive part of making software) is spent because companies > are afraid to share code amongst themselves? > > I have nothing against propriatary software when it works and has all > the features I need, but when something trully needs fixing it's > a godsend to have source availble. > > Wouldn't it be nice to get emails with patches to fix bugs in Windows > rather than call after call, after call for support? > > Oh, wait... I just remeber, you guys are now 100% pay per incident.... > > *sigh* > > -Alfred Perlstein > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 19 23:55:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6553D14FEB for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:55:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA23718; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:08:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:08:39 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Greg Lehey Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You can take my source. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990420161003.Y40482@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 20 April 1999 at 1:53:17 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > * (c) UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. > > * All or some portions of this file are derived from material licensed > > * to the University of California by American Telephone and Telegraph > > * Co. or Unix System Laboratories, Inc. and are reproduced herein with > > * the permission of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. > > > > Am i doing my part? :) > > I'm not sure. I would think you could have chosen a better example. > If you have really sent this to Microsoft, I think you should at least > retract your statement. Maybe i'm being a bit clueless here (hey it's happened more times than I can count and i'm a bit tired) but doesn't the: > > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > > * are met: > > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the > > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. > > * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > > * must display the following acknowledgement: > > * This product includes software developed by the University of > > * California, Berkeley and its contributors. > > * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors > > * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software > > * without specific prior written permission. > > * > > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND .. constitute the way that most of the BSD license works? I don't think the source of the code really matters as long as it follows that spirit: keep my copyright, don't blame me if it goes "boom" or am i missing something? it's not phk's "beer-ware license" but i thought it was official enough and at the same time "open source" even though it has the: > > * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > > * must display the following acknowledgement: > > * This product includes software developed by the University of > > * California, Berkeley and its contributors. clause.. I'll retract the statement if you disagree as i do value your judgement. perhaps you would like to go over the email with a red pen (sorta) and i'll submit a revised post? -Alfred > > Greg > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 0:19:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA75152F8 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA22503; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:45:55 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA45660; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:45:31 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990420164530.A40482@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:45:30 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You can take my source. (fwd) References: <19990420161003.Y40482@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Tue, Apr 20, 1999 at 02:08:39AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 20 April 1999 at 2:08:39 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Tuesday, 20 April 1999 at 1:53:17 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>> >>> * (c) UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. >>> * All or some portions of this file are derived from material licensed >>> * to the University of California by American Telephone and Telegraph >>> * Co. or Unix System Laboratories, Inc. and are reproduced herein with >>> * the permission of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. >>> >>> Am i doing my part? :) >> >> I'm not sure. I would think you could have chosen a better example. >> If you have really sent this to Microsoft, I think you should at least >> retract your statement. > > Maybe i'm being a bit clueless here (hey it's happened more times than > I can count and i'm a bit tired) but doesn't the: > >>> * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without >>> * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions >>> * are met: >>> * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright >>> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. >>> * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright >>> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the >>> * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. >>> * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software >>> * must display the following acknowledgement: >>> * This product includes software developed by the University of >>> * California, Berkeley and its contributors. >>> * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors >>> * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software >>> * without specific prior written permission. >>> * >>> * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > > .. > > constitute the way that most of the BSD license works? This part does. Unfortunately, the license you sent included not just the Berkeley License, but also an AT&T license. The bit I quoted at the very top (USL license) is definitely *not* part of the Berkeley license, and in fact closer to the licenses to be found in System V sources. > I'll retract the statement if you disagree as i do value your judgement. I think you'll understand now. > perhaps you would like to go over the email with a red pen (sorta) and > i'll submit a revised post? Hmm. I don't have the whole message any more, but I think the rest is OK. Just to be sure, I think this is pretty much the basis: * Copyright (c) 1990, 1993 * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software * must display the following acknowledgement: * This product includes software developed by the University of * California, Berkeley and its contributors. * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software * without specific prior written permission. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 0:28:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DBFD14F06; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:28:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id QAA03862; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:25:41 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <371C2A38.53FA44EB@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:18:16 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Wes Peters , Bill Fumerola , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , FreeBSD Advocacy , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FW: Re: NetBSD: Certified mom-ready. References: <8990.924583622@zippy.cdrom.com> <371C0F97.F0416E3C@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > I really don't like where this thread is going, guys. :-) > > Oh don't worry, Jordan. The video tape won't make it to the press, > we promise. ;-) Yeah. That, and Bill Clinton didn't have sex with that woman. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 0:42:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C0F14C1B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:42:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA22156; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:51:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:51:00 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Greg Lehey Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You can take my source. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990420164530.A40482@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 20 April 1999 at 2:08:39 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >>> * without specific prior written permission. > >>> * > >>> * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > > > > .. > > > > constitute the way that most of the BSD license works? > > This part does. Unfortunately, the license you sent included not just > the Berkeley License, but also an AT&T license. The bit I quoted at > the very top (USL license) is definitely *not* part of the Berkeley > license, and in fact closer to the licenses to be found in System V > sources. > > > I'll retract the statement if you disagree as i do value your judgement. > > I think you'll understand now. > > > perhaps you would like to go over the email with a red pen (sorta) and > > i'll submit a revised post? > > Hmm. I don't have the whole message any more, but I think the rest is > OK. Just to be sure, I think this is pretty much the basis: > > * Copyright (c) 1990, 1993 > * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. > * > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > * are met: > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. > * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > * must display the following acknowledgement: > * This product includes software developed by the University of > * California, Berkeley and its contributors. > * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors > * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software > * without specific prior written permission. > * > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE > * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. So I should just tell them that I am retracting the part about the license and give them this instead? Or do you know of a better example? -Alfred > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 1: 1:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A79514C1B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:01:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA22621; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:29:16 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA45852; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:29:16 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19990420172915.D40482@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:29:15 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: You can take my source. (fwd) References: <19990420164530.A40482@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Tue, Apr 20, 1999 at 02:51:00AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 20 April 1999 at 2:51:00 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Tuesday, 20 April 1999 at 2:08:39 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>>>> * without specific prior written permission. >>>>> * >>>>> * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND >>> >>> .. >>> >>> constitute the way that most of the BSD license works? >> >> This part does. Unfortunately, the license you sent included not just >> the Berkeley License, but also an AT&T license. The bit I quoted at >> the very top (USL license) is definitely *not* part of the Berkeley >> license, and in fact closer to the licenses to be found in System V >> sources. >> >>> I'll retract the statement if you disagree as i do value your judgement. >> >> I think you'll understand now. >> >>> perhaps you would like to go over the email with a red pen (sorta) and >>> i'll submit a revised post? >> >> Hmm. I don't have the whole message any more, but I think the rest is >> OK. Just to be sure, I think this is pretty much the basis: >> >> * Copyright (c) 1990, 1993 >> * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. >> * >> * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without >> * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions >> * are met: >> * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright >> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. >> * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright >> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the >> * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. >> * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software >> * must display the following acknowledgement: >> * This product includes software developed by the University of >> * California, Berkeley and its contributors. >> * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors >> * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software >> * without specific prior written permission. >> * >> * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND >> * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE >> * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE >> * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE >> * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL >> * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS >> * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) >> * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT >> * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY >> * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF >> * SUCH DAMAGE. > > So I should just tell them that I am retracting the part about the license > and give them this instead? Or do you know of a better example? I think you should say that you accidentally sent them a version which included a USL clause, and that that part is not part of the Berkeley license. But maybe we should wait a while and let somebody else come to word. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 1:43:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B971565B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:43:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id KAA16232; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:40:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26442; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:40:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:40:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Nick Hibma Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB ISDN driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Transferred from -ISDN. How about trying to get them to stamp it with "Supported by FreeBSD" or somesuch, if this support is finished? --- Marius Bendiksen, ScanCall AS On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Nick Hibma wrote: > > 3COM has offered me an ISDN adapter to develop the USB driver for it. I > do not have the ISDN line to test it, so I am looking for someone who > could possibly do (part of) the implementation. > > > Cheers, > > Nick Hibma > FreeBSD USB project > > n_hibma@freebsd.org > http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 1:46:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573D315183 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:46:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id KAA22617; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:47:25 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:43:31 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Marius Bendiksen Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB ISDN driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG They won't. It is a pet project for one of the guys in the developers department. He has a FreeBSD box at home :-) Let's see what we can do at a later stage when we have support for the Modem as well. Maybe we can get them to create a link to a page on which they state the fact that it is supported in various non-supported operating systems, like NetBSD, FreeBSD, Linux, etc. Nick FreeBSD USB project On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Marius Bendiksen wrote: > Transferred from -ISDN. > > How about trying to get them to stamp it with "Supported by FreeBSD" or > somesuch, if this support is finished? > > --- > Marius Bendiksen, ScanCall AS > > On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Nick Hibma wrote: > > > > > 3COM has offered me an ISDN adapter to develop the USB driver for it. I > > do not have the ISDN line to test it, so I am looking for someone who > > could possibly do (part of) the implementation. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Nick Hibma > > FreeBSD USB project > > > > n_hibma@freebsd.org > > http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-isdn" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > -- ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 5:41: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wombat.is.fh-hamburg.de (wombat.is.fh-hamburg.de [141.22.192.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DD414C8D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 05:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuehl@lgk.de) Received: from issus.susan.fh-hamburg.de (issus.susan.fh-hamburg.de [141.22.100.39]) by wombat.is.fh-hamburg.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19346 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:38:17 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pisces.susan.fh-hamburg.de by issus.susan.fh-hamburg.de (5.65v4.0/1.1.10.5/19Aug97-1156AM) id AA21906; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:13:26 +0200 Message-Id: <371C6EE5.AC501115@lgk.de> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:11:17 +0200 From: Lars Gerhard Kuehl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Juniper Networks: Job Listings Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone having seen that page: http://www.juniper.net/jobs/joblist.htm#SW Is FreeBSD going to become the 21st century Internet Backbone OS? Maybe it will finally experience an incarnation as FemtoBSD on merely an ASIC. :-) Lars To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 6:18:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pcayk.ukc.ac.uk (pcayk.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.41.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3661574B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:18:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dlombardo@excite.com) Received: from excite.com (xtsw12c.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.41.85]) by pcayk.ukc.ac.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA49589 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:17:36 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dlombardo@excite.com) Message-ID: <371C7EE3.A7324C8A@excite.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:19:31 +0100 From: Dean Lombardo Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD References: <371C15CD.A5EF0A33@vmunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > I have attached the latest two .gifs my wife has drawn. Send her your > feed back, and post them to the advocacy page if you like them. We are > kind of just wading through some ideas to see what works. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [Image] [Image] Man - does he look evil or what! Cynical and contemptuous, at least. Green glasses, no teeth, tiny nose, sardonic smile... Slightly reminiscent of the Djinn in Wes Craven's Wishmaster. No surpise he was decapitated. What happened to the cute old Daemon? Cute little eyes, mischievous smile? The flaming red face from drinking the night before (or perhaps doing LSD?) - well, not sure about the FreeBSD one, but the OpenBSDaemon looks positively drunk (which is necessarily a good thing!) I admire your wife's drawing skills, but perhaps she had a wrong image in mind. "For the last time, I'm a daemon, not the Devil!" Some advice to the demon in the picture: 1) Lose the glasses, 2) grow a nose, 3) go see the dentist - he may be able to give you some morphine - but if not, 4) go get drunk anyway. 5) Be careful what you wish for. Fear the djinn. Dean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 7:21:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF4E1578E for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:21:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA22698 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:19:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:19:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD friendly hardware vendor? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This reminds me. The people at Atipa, though becoming more Linux-centric it seems, still use FreeBSD for their webserver. Don't know if that qualifies them for the "Big Boys" list or not, but I thought it was worth a mention. -steve ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:03:11 -0400 From: Francisco Reyes To: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: FreeBSD friendly hardware vendor? Anyone could recommend a FreeBSD friendly hardware reseller? The one I used to buy from (atipa) seems to be going the way of Linux. They stopped listing FreeBSD in their list of pre-isntalled OS and their re-designed site has Linux links on the top. I have a local reseller I use for Win stuff, but they have 0 knowledge of FreeBSD. I have looked at the gallery before, and just checked it again. Most stores don't seem to be doing much of an effort to attract FreeBSD users (i.e. their FreeBSD offers are stale). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 8:46: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84AD014BDD for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:45:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13258; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:43:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Dean Lombardo Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <371C7EE3.A7324C8A@excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, we will work on it. It's hard to find the line between 'cute', 'cool', and appearing 'evil'. He appears different to everybody. But we are trying for cute and/or cool. -Chris On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Dean Lombardo wrote: > Chris Coleman wrote: > > > > I have attached the latest two .gifs my wife has drawn. Send her your > > feed back, and post them to the advocacy page if you like them. We are > > kind of just wading through some ideas to see what works. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > [Image] [Image] > > > Man - does he look evil or what! Cynical and contemptuous, at least. > Green glasses, no teeth, tiny nose, sardonic smile... Slightly > reminiscent of the Djinn in Wes Craven's Wishmaster. No surpise he was > decapitated. > > What happened to the cute old Daemon? Cute little eyes, mischievous > smile? The flaming red face from drinking the night before (or perhaps > doing LSD?) - well, not sure about the FreeBSD one, but the OpenBSDaemon > looks positively drunk (which is necessarily a good thing!) > > I admire your wife's drawing skills, but perhaps she had a wrong image > in mind. "For the last time, I'm a daemon, not the Devil!" > > Some advice to the demon in the picture: > > 1) Lose the glasses, 2) grow a nose, 3) go see the dentist - he may be > able to give you some morphine - but if not, 4) go get drunk anyway. > > 5) Be careful what you wish for. Fear the djinn. > > Dean > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 9: 4:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from aeolus.conio.net (ci221559-a.grnvle1.sc.home.com [24.4.122.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 06ECB14ED5 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:04:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@conio.net) Received: (qmail 1811 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Apr 1999 16:04:26 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 16:04:26 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:04:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Stephenson X-Sender: sam@aeolus To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Trademarks Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How difficult of a process would it be to get the name "FreeBSD" and the slogan "The power to serve" trademarked? Would the grant money cover this? I think it'd be very cool to be able to say "FreeBSD(R)." It might earn more respect with the corporate professionals as well. --Sam Stephenson sam@conio.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 9: 7: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4F514CEA for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10208; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904201603.JAA10208@implode.root.com> To: Sam Stephenson Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:04:26 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:03:37 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >How difficult of a process would it be to get the name "FreeBSD" and the >slogan "The power to serve" trademarked? Would the grant money cover this? >I think it'd be very cool to be able to say "FreeBSD(R)." It might earn >more respect with the corporate professionals as well. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of Walnut Creek CDROM (and has been for many years). I don't know if the "The power" slogan was registered. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 11:20:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A82B14E78 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 19118 invoked by alias); 20 Apr 1999 18:18:18 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 19096 invoked by uid 0); 20 Apr 1999 18:18:17 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 18:18:17 -0000 Message-ID: <371CC4D7.3F4853FB@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:17:59 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman Cc: Dean Lombardo , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > Ok, we will work on it. It's hard to find the line between 'cute', > 'cool', and appearing 'evil'. He appears different to everybody. > But we are trying for cute and/or cool. As a newbie, long-time computer user, and one who is always speaking to both newcomers and old timers, I can tell you that the "trademark" Chuck image is well accepted and rather eye-catching. Whenever someone asks me what the "cute little devil icon" is, it's a chance for me to advocate FreeBSD and hopefully bring another into our ranks. Just the other day, I was in the process of an upgrade had my 2.2.7 CDs sitting next to my 3.1 CDs and a friend asked me about them. After I explained what FreeBSD was, he looked at each image then said, "The 2.2.7 guy looks cool. Like one of those harmless-looking little dudes that'll kick your ass in a fight. But what's with the 3.1 dude? He looks goofy or something." JFR, I've always thought of FreeBSD as one of the little guys that can match or beat you no matter what you try. -- I don't like four lines! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 11:38:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D321714C47 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA07936; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:35:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd007865; Tue Apr 20 11:35:37 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA03652; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:35:35 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904201835.LAA03652@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Graphics. To: c.raven@ukonline.co.uk (Christopher Raven) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:35:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, poohsannah@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <371B35BC.D141777@ukonline.co.uk> from "Christopher Raven" at Apr 19, 99 02:55:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there any chance you could animate the coin so it spins? > Or is that pushing it *too* much? > Perhaps the daemon on the front and the 'powered by' logo on the back? Or A head on both sides, and animated to "flip". "Heads: You win!" Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 11:51:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.lonetree.com (falcon.lonetree.com [207.141.55.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD7714F60 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wolfnet@wolfnet-irc.org) Received: from wolfnet-irc.org (users.wolfnet-irc.org [209.64.46.42]) by falcon.lonetree.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12615; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:48:33 -0600 Message-ID: <371CCCBC.51AECD81@wolfnet-irc.org> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:51:40 -0600 From: Jonathan Frazier Organization: The WolfNet-IRC Organization X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Trademarks References: <199904201603.JAA10208@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Trademarks are very simple and the cost runs $248 each. I have set up a few for my business and it's no big deal. Something you can even do over the net. It took me about 4-6 weeks in each case to get it through. Jonathan Frazier David Greenman wrote: > >How difficult of a process would it be to get the name "FreeBSD" and the > >slogan "The power to serve" trademarked? Would the grant money cover this? > >I think it'd be very cool to be able to say "FreeBSD(R)." It might earn > >more respect with the corporate professionals as well. > > FreeBSD is a registered trademark of Walnut Creek CDROM (and has been for > many years). I don't know if the "The power" slogan was registered. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org > Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 11:54:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF1A15125 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:54:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15185; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd015155; Tue Apr 20 11:52:03 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA04495; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:52:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904201852.LAA04495@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? To: dwilde1@thuntek.net (Donald Wilde) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:52:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: billf@chc-chimes.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <371B9767.53224D81@thuntek.net> from "Donald Wilde" at Apr 19, 99 02:51:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The company that used FreeBSD should make the press release, not FreeBSD. > > > > It's convincing and powerful to say "We used FreeBSD to do special effects > > for 'The Matrix'", directly from the mouths of the people in the credits. > > I've been tryiing to get permission to put the words in Manex' and > Time-Warner's mouths to do just this, but evidently Charles hasn't > gotten anywhere with getting permission. Since that appears to be the > case, I'm going to do the next best thing, which, as Paul put it, is to > write it, broadcast it and hope they print it. You aren't selling it correctly. The mainstream companies are killing themselves to get "Open Source" press releases, since that's what get's printed. The advantage to Manex is that they get to get the "Open Source" limelight shown on them, and get their name out there to people considering who to go to for effects for their next film. Unless you tell them the advantage to them, in terms they can easily understand (in this case, press space, probably in the San Jose Mercury News, minimally), then you aren't doing anything that they want except trying to use their name to push your product, which is fine for you, but what have you done for them. Joint press releases are not advocacy, they are a transaction. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 12:25:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E535E14D8F; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:25:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id EAA25092; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:22:37 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <371CD378.53956902@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:20:24 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nick Hibma Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATA driver for alpha (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Hibma wrote: > > Jordan, you said nowadays one can simply compile a kernel < 1.44Mb and > stick it on the disk kern.flp? It is possible. Even more, you can add kld modules to that disk, and then edit loader.rc to load them too, so you don't even need to compile a kernel. > People could appreciate this. I for one would like to make demo floppies > to send to companies having supplied devices for USB support to show > their devices at work. So, anyone up for creating a web page generating custom kern.klp disks, with features not found in GENERIC, using a cgi script? :-) If you limit this to adding kld modules, it would be surprisingly easy to do it. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 12:40:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA83215039 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:40:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-070.thuntek.net [207.66.52.70]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA01048 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371CD741.D3DD6FF5@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:36:33 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Press coverage for FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry's got good advice, and I'd like to broadcast a request to _all_ of you who install FreeBSD for corporate clients. We want to begin making a press barrage to convince Suits and Beancounters and Newsies that FreeBSD really is a viable operating ssytem choice. We're currently working with Charles Heinrich on a Manex press release, Wilfredo Sanchez of Apple, and Paul Richards of Originative Solutions, who set up Netcraft.com, among others. What I need you to do is to go to your clients and get permission for us to talk about their applications and how FreeBSD works for them. We won't necessarily do separate releases for each company, but each one we do use will get positive press from our efforts, because we all know that FreeSBD makes good business sense. I'll be glad to write the actual releases, what I need from you is quotable descriptions of what your clients use FreeBSD for. If each individual client is too small, but you have set up dozens of them, "interview" yourself for us, and I'll make hay from that. Terry Lambert said: > The mainstream companies are killing themselves to get "Open Source" > press releases, since that's what get's printed. > > The advantage to Manex is that they get to get the "Open Source" > limelight shown on them, and get their name out there to people > considering who to go to for effects for their next film. > > Unless you tell them the advantage to them, in terms they can > easily understand (in this case, press space, probably in the San > Jose Mercury News, minimally), then you aren't doing anything that > they want except trying to use their name to push your product, > which is fine for you, but what have you done for them. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 13: 7:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E36C14EDB for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:07:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id FAA27220; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:04:49 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <371CDD5D.6C215C3A@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:02:37 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Cracauer Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/features.html References: <14692.924172106@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990419174604.A14787@cons.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Martin Cracauer wrote: > > * bootloader [FIMXE fill this] After thinking about this about a while, and finally discarding answering with "Hey, don't look at me! I just work here.", here are my thoughts. I don't think bootloader feature is sellable. People don't want to hear about bootstrapping. They expect things to "just boot". Sure, it is useful to have a powerful bootstrapping tool, but people would rather not need it. Talk too much about it, and people will think booting FreeBSD is a complex procedure with a learning curve associated (nature abhors learning curves). Also, we have the "three stage boot loader". For us who know why it is needed, it sounds wonderful. For outsiders, it looks like things goes through a lot of different steps, all of them requiring interaction with the user (well, that's what people would dread). So, you might want to say "A new boot loader with scripting and interactive capabilities designed to handle turn key applications and customized environments." How's that? Anyone thinking this frightening, please speak up! -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 13:48: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 422EA14D11 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-131.thuntek.net [207.66.52.131]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA18785; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <371CE706.A817F9F5@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:43:50 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/features.html References: <14692.924172106@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990419174604.A14787@cons.org> <371CDD5D.6C215C3A@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Also, we have the "three stage boot loader". For us who know why it > is needed, it sounds wonderful. For outsiders, it looks like things > goes through a lot of different steps, all of them requiring > interaction with the user (well, that's what people would dread). > Ummm, I like that, actually. To most people, it makes us rocket-powered! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 15: 0: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A9E14CFB for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id GAA03609; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:57:33 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <371CF7C7.5F250ABE@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:55:20 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Ombudsman (sp? :) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Could we have an ombudsman list? Ie, a mailing address for complains about us? While I fear it might get spammed with Brett Glass messages, I'm concerned that there isn't any obvious place for users to express their dissatisfactions. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 15:53:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC08A1579D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15097; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:51:06 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:51:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Licia To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? In-Reply-To: <370AECB4.71D34B54@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ snipped for space ] On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Licia wrote: > > > > So freeware authors would be able to get listed in the branded software area > > on the web site? > > Yes!! > Excellent :) I think this is a great way to offer encouragement :) > > Would there be criterion on size/quality of a branded > > project, or could someone write a clone of echo and get listed? :) > > Common sense, hopefully. I wouldn't expect to brand "echo", but perhaps a > suite of utilities like psutils could be, if somebody wants to brand it. > There is no reason why programs like XV and Ghostscript couldn't be, for > instance. > The reason I asked this, is that I am concerned about the people who would be more interested in getting listed in the archive than doing real development :) If someone weren't really developing material, but wanted an ego boost, they could do something like clone echo and try to get listed, but I think allowing that would degrade the value of the archive... (paranoid woman at times :) ) > > (nods) an interesting site, and I do think we could learn a lot from it. > > My main concern isn't the commercial developers though. As our numbers grow > > and FreeBSD becomes better known, such support is nearly inevitable I think. I > > worry more about keeping FreeBSD 'in the loop' as far as freeware support, and > > enticing people to use FreeBSD as a native development platform, any thoughts > > on how the branding effort could be used there? > > The purpose here is to get "application" vendors to put FreeBSD logos > on their products and their web pages. Hopefully the web page entries > will be linked to our web page, and the "box" logs will include a URL > or something like that. The idea here is to advocate FreeBSD, after all. > (nods) I agree completely, I'm just trying to see how this effort can be used to advocate FreeBSD as a development platform :) I do development under it on a daily basis, find it a wonderful os for both development and desktop use as well as server, and I want to make sure all three areas get a little advocating :) [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 16:39:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE4114D44 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12350; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:36:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Sam Stephenson Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:04:26 EDT." Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:36:30 -0700 Message-ID: <12348.924651390@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How difficult of a process would it be to get the name "FreeBSD" and the FreeBSD is trademarked FreeBSD, Inc and Walnut Creek CDROM. I'm not sure if "The power to serve" is worth trademarking though; we tend to change our slogan every couple of years. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 20 18: 5:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD8E15065 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:05:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id SAA08764; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA10075; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:02:41 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA29176; Tue, 20 Apr 99 18:02:39 PDT Message-Id: <371D23AF.BF29DAE9@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:02:39 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman Cc: Dean Lombardo , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > Ok, we will work on it. It's hard to find the line between 'cute', > 'cool', and appearing 'evil'. He appears different to everybody. > But we are trying for cute and/or cool. This one looks cool to me. He reminds me of an old friend who was a real rake in his 20. Scott, whatever happened to you!?!?! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 0: 4: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B989A1534D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:04:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13470; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ombudsman (sp? :) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:55:20 +0900." <371CF7C7.5F250ABE@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:01:32 -0700 Message-ID: <13468.924678092@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Could we have an ombudsman list? Ie, a mailing address for complains > about us? While I fear it might get spammed with Brett Glass > messages, I'm concerned that there isn't any obvious place for users > to express their dissatisfactions. Hmmmm. You mean like complaints@freebsd.org or something? Is it also OK if nobody from core actually subscribes to it? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 0: 5: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from login-2.eunet.no (login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271A215830 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) Received: from login-1.eunet.no (mbendiks@login-1.eunet.no [193.71.71.238]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.0/GN) with ESMTP id JAA28846; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:02:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (mbendiks@localhost) by login-1.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA04535; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:02:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mbendiks@eunet.no) X-Authentication-Warning: login-1.eunet.no: mbendiks owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:02:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Marius Bendiksen To: Nick Hibma Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: USB ISDN driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > They won't. It is a pet project for one of the guys in the developers > department. He has a FreeBSD box at home :-) > > Let's see what we can do at a later stage when we have support for the > Modem as well. Maybe we can get them to create a link to a page on which > they state the fact that it is supported in various non-supported > operating systems, like NetBSD, FreeBSD, Linux, etc. Good idea. - Marius - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 1: 2:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBAA51580E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:02:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA29645; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:59:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371D8575.E2DD38A8@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:59:49 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Licia Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Licia wrote: > > [ snipped for space ] > > On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > Licia wrote: > > > > > > So freeware authors would be able to get listed in the branded software area > > > on the web site? > > > > Yes!! > > > > Excellent :) I think this is a great way to offer encouragement :) > > > > Would there be criterion on size/quality of a branded > > > project, or could someone write a clone of echo and get listed? :) > > > > Common sense, hopefully. I wouldn't expect to brand "echo", but perhaps a > > suite of utilities like psutils could be, if somebody wants to brand it. > > There is no reason why programs like XV and Ghostscript couldn't be, for > > instance. > > > > The reason I asked this, is that I am concerned about the people who would be > more interested in getting listed in the archive than doing real development > :) If someone weren't really developing material, but wanted an ego boost, > they could do something like clone echo and try to get listed, but I think > allowing that would degrade the value of the archive... Oh, you mean like my "nologin" program I contributed several years ago, just to get on the contributors list? Well, not JUST to get on the contributors list, it does provide a useful function. > (paranoid woman at times :) ) I just got back from watching The Matrix. My paranoia is running rampant; running around the house kicking things over actually. I hope it'll calm down and let me go to sleep soon. > > > (nods) an interesting site, and I do think we could learn a lot from it. > > > My main concern isn't the commercial developers though. As our numbers grow > > > and FreeBSD becomes better known, such support is nearly inevitable I think. I > > > worry more about keeping FreeBSD 'in the loop' as far as freeware support, and > > > enticing people to use FreeBSD as a native development platform, any thoughts > > > on how the branding effort could be used there? > > > > The purpose here is to get "application" vendors to put FreeBSD logos > > on their products and their web pages. Hopefully the web page entries > > will be linked to our web page, and the "box" logs will include a URL > > or something like that. The idea here is to advocate FreeBSD, after all. > > > > (nods) I agree completely, I'm just trying to see how this effort can be used > to advocate FreeBSD as a development platform :) Hopefully by showing that others are actually SELLING software to FreeBSD users. I'd certainly happily pay $99 for a good word processor that doesn't eat the system, like Gobe Productive for BeOS. I'd probably pay $40 or $50 for a good email client; the user interface on everything except Netscape Communicator sucks, and Communicator sucks functionally. > I do development under it on a daily basis, find it a wonderful os for both > development and desktop use as well as server, and I want to make sure all > three areas get a little advocating :) I wish I could. By the time I get home from work, I barely have the energy to answer my email, let alone write more code. ;^( -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 1: 6:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EABB7153B3 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:06:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA29747; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371D8653.DD32059F@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:03:31 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ombudsman (sp? :) References: <13468.924678092@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > Could we have an ombudsman list? Ie, a mailing address for complains > > about us? While I fear it might get spammed with Brett Glass > > messages, I'm concerned that there isn't any obvious place for users > > to express their dissatisfactions. > > Hmmmm. You mean like complaints@freebsd.org or something? Is it also > OK if nobody from core actually subscribes to it? :-) That might actually be preferrable. ;^) This reminds me of a great bumper sticker I saw last week: Stop Global Whining My wife wants one of these, and a "Visualize Whirled Peas" alongside it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 6:53: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726CA1536D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:53:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F2E392EE1A; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 2496 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <371CC4D7.3F4853FB@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:50:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Darren Pilgrim Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Dean Lombardo , Chris Coleman Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Chris Coleman wrote: >>=20 >> Ok, we will work on it. It's hard to find the line between 'cute', >> 'cool', and appearing 'evil'. He appears different to everybody. >> But we are trying for cute and/or cool. >=20 > As a newbie, long-time computer user, and one who is always speaking > to both newcomers and old timers, I can tell you that the "trademark" > Chuck image is well accepted and rather eye-catching. Whenever > someone asks me what the "cute little devil icon" is, it's a chance > for me to advocate FreeBSD and hopefully bring another into our ranks. >=20 > Just the other day, I was in the process of an upgrade had my 2.2.7 > CDs sitting next to my 3.1 CDs and a friend asked me about them. > After I explained what FreeBSD was, he looked at each image then said, > "The 2.2.7 guy looks cool. Like one of those harmless-looking little > dudes that'll kick your ass in a fight. But what's with the 3.1 dude? > He looks goofy or something." JFR, I've always thought of FreeBSD as > one of the little guys that can match or beat you no matter what you > try. >=20 I have to agree with him. It's like "New Coke." Remember how well that wen= t over! Bring back the Classic Daemon! A symbol of Power, not of a party life= ! Are we trying to make him look cute and happy to "keep up" with the pengui= n? We are inovators. We should chase no one. Nicole > --=20 > I > don't > like > four > lines! >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 7: 3: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D2015281 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:02:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip82.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.82]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825EB37080; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA86311; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:00:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:00:57 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Nicole Harrington Cc: Darren Pilgrim , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Dean Lombardo , Chris Coleman Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990421090057.B84628@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <371CC4D7.3F4853FB@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicole Harrington on Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 06:50:32AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 21, 1999, Nicole Harrington wrote: > I have to agree with him. It's like "New Coke." Remember how well that went > over! Bring back the Classic Daemon! A symbol of Power, not of a party life! I agree as well. I have my 2.2.6 CDs right next to my 3.1 CDs right now, and I actually think the 2.2.6 Chuck looks genuinely happy, the 3.1 daemon is (as someone put it) a punch-drunk waiter. Plus of course the way the lighting/shading is done on the 2.2.6 CDs makes him look much, much better. > Are we trying to make him look cute and happy to "keep up" with the penguin? We > are inovators. We should chase no one. > > Nicole -- Chris Costello This is line 235 of tags. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 8: 1:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BEB215225 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:01:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id HAA88386; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:59:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:59:09 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ombudsman (sp? :) Message-ID: <19990421075909.A88363@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <13468.924678092@zippy.cdrom.com> <371D8653.DD32059F@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <371D8653.DD32059F@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 02:03:31AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 02:03:31AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > > Could we have an ombudsman list? Ie, a mailing address for complains > > > about us? While I fear it might get spammed with Brett Glass > > > messages, I'm concerned that there isn't any obvious place for users > > > to express their dissatisfactions. > > > > Hmmmm. You mean like complaints@freebsd.org or something? Is it also > > OK if nobody from core actually subscribes to it? :-) > > That might actually be preferrable. ;^) > > This reminds me of a great bumper sticker I saw last week: > > Stop Global Whining > > My wife wants one of these, and a "Visualize Whirled Peas" alongside it. How about "Hang up and drive" and my favorite, "Tonigh you sleep with the fishes" Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 8:10:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from leap.innerx.net (leap.innerx.net [38.179.176.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3FB14EA6; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:10:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ip82.houston2.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.201.82]) by leap.innerx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B754937013; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:07:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA86497; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:08:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:08:12 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ombudsman (sp? :) Message-ID: <19990421100812.D84628@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <371CF7C7.5F250ABE@newsguy.com> <13468.924678092@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: <13468.924678092@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 12:01:32AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 21, 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Could we have an ombudsman list? Ie, a mailing address for complains > > about us? While I fear it might get spammed with Brett Glass > > messages, I'm concerned that there isn't any obvious place for users > > to express their dissatisfactions. > > Hmmmm. You mean like complaints@freebsd.org or something? Is it also > OK if nobody from core actually subscribes to it? :-) echo "Jordan has cooties" | mail -s Jordan complaints@freebsd.org (This doesn't belong in -advocacy anyhow, so I'll take the liberty of setting replies to -chat) > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 8:16:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19BFA1523E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:16:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu) Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) Ident [ewayte] by pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id A83983495; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:13:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Wayte To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ombudsman (sp? :) In-Reply-To: <19990421075909.A88363@ontario.mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Last night I almost wrecked the car over this one: Driver carries no cash - he's married. -Eric- On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Josef Grosch wrote: > > How about "Hang up and drive" and my favorite, "Tonigh you sleep with the > fishes" > > > Josef > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 9: 4:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14A514ED9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:04:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00568; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:01:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371DF654.A00F18BE@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:01:24 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: news@daemonnews.org Subject: FreeBSD in the press (again!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In his "Wide Angle" column on the PCWeek March 29 Editorial & Opinion page, John Taschek takes Microsoft to task for disallowing benchmarks in their new software licenses: "And now Microsoft is starting to chicken out at a time when performance measurements are gaining in importance... The Yahoo [sic] site is running almost entirely on FreeBSD because of its reliability and performance." For a one-line throw-off, I just can't see how we could have done better. ;^) Mr. Taschek can be reached at john_taschek@zd.com. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 9: 5:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2665414ED9 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (licia@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17820; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:03:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:03:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Licia To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is there a "how did you hear about us?" form on www.freebsd.org? In-Reply-To: <371D8575.E2DD38A8@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [snipped here and there for space :) ] On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Licia wrote: > > > > [ snipped for space ] > > > > The reason I asked this, is that I am concerned about the people who would be > > more interested in getting listed in the archive than doing real development > > :) If someone weren't really developing material, but wanted an ego boost, > > they could do something like clone echo and try to get listed, but I think > > allowing that would degrade the value of the archive... > > Oh, you mean like my "nologin" program I contributed several years ago, just > to get on the contributors list? Well, not JUST to get on the contributors > list, it does provide a useful function. > (grin) No, nologin serves a useful purpose, I'm talking about the people who would try to brand 'hello world' :) (i.e. will there be any minimum requirements as to what can be branded?) > > (paranoid woman at times :) ) > > I just got back from watching The Matrix. My paranoia is running rampant; > running around the house kicking things over actually. I hope it'll calm > down and let me go to sleep soon. (grins) I think I'm just flashing back to something else that happened years ago, a noble project was started, but ended up having no value to anyone, because the less mature among that group wanted the 'status' that went with being Listed :/ Hmm if it's got your paranoia jumping that much, I'll mark it as a "must see" :) > > (nods) I agree completely, I'm just trying to see how this effort can be used > > to advocate FreeBSD as a development platform :) > > Hopefully by showing that others are actually SELLING software to FreeBSD > users. I'd certainly happily pay $99 for a good word processor that doesn't > eat the system, like Gobe Productive for BeOS. I'd probably pay $40 or $50 > for a good email client; the user interface on everything except Netscape > Communicator sucks, and Communicator sucks functionally. > (nods) I'm about to register a few products myself :) WP8, and XClamation :) I'm also about to write a nice 'thank you' note to a man who writes a very very nice freeware package (xanim) as I adore that program :) > > I do development under it on a daily basis, find it a wonderful os for both > > development and desktop use as well as server, and I want to make sure all > > three areas get a little advocating :) > > I wish I could. By the time I get home from work, I barely have the energy > to answer my email, let alone write more code. ;^( > (grin) I'm one of those lucky few who -love- her job :) When I get home I usually feel very good :) I've just gotten behind lately from a ton of little things left over from moving (The first time I've moved in 8 years, and I had a lot of help last time, so I wasn't prepared :( ) Hmm is there any particular code you need written? [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 9:27:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41AD414C38 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:27:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00640; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:24:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371DFBC2.4C38BCFF@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:24:34 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Sam Stephenson , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks References: <12348.924651390@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > How difficult of a process would it be to get the name "FreeBSD" and the > > FreeBSD is trademarked FreeBSD, Inc and Walnut Creek CDROM. > > I'm not sure if "The power to serve" is worth trademarking though; > we tend to change our slogan every couple of years. :-) I've been thinking about this lately. How 'bout "FreeBSD: networking at the speed of thought." Nah, it's been done, almost. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 11:11:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.naxs.com (mailman.naxs.com [216.98.64.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0371579D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:10:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aiarbuckle@naxs.com) Received: from naxs.com ([216.98.76.175]) by mailman.naxs.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42723U8000L3500S0) with ESMTP id AAA258; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:07:47 -0400 Message-ID: <371E1408.4309B3CB@naxs.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:08:08 -0400 From: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" Organization: Donnkenny Apparel, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sam Stephenson , FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: Trademarks References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD has no copyright yet? If it is worth protecting, it should be protected, even if it requires a solicitation for the needed funds (I tend to think that a simple copyright is not that expensive). Perhaps the poweres that be could request that purchasers of FreeBSD add a dollar to support ongoing efforts, to include image protection? Sam Stephenson wrote: > > How difficult of a process would it be to get the name "FreeBSD" and the > slogan "The power to serve" trademarked? Would the grant money cover this? > I think it'd be very cool to be able to say "FreeBSD(R)." It might earn > more respect with the corporate professionals as well. > > --Sam Stephenson > sam@conio.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Andrew I. Arbuckle Work: (540) 228-6181 ext 251 Fax: (540) 228-6036 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 12:35:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from stcgate.statcan.ca (stcgate.statcan.ca [142.206.192.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36214152E8 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:34:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Mike.Jeays@statcan.ca) Received: from stcinet (stcinet.statcan.ca [142.206.128.146]) by stcgate.statcan.ca (8.9.1/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA18427 For ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from statcan.ca by statcan.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA17800; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:32:25 -0400; sender Mike.Jeays@a.statcan.ca Received: from bora2.statcan.ca (bora2.statcan.ca [142.206.248.251]) by smtpshb.statcan.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03503 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:36:45 -0400 Received: from smtpsha.iusd.statcan.ca by bora2.statcan.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA08838 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:15:01 -0400 ; sender Mike.Jeays@a.statcan.ca Received: from smtpsha.iusd.statcan.ca (smtpsha.iusd.statcan.ca [142.205.132.248]) by smtpsha.iusd.statcan.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03736 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:21:11 -0400 Received: from imap1a.statcan.ca (imap1a.statcan.ca [142.205.234.34]) by smtpsha.iusd.statcan.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03718 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:20:33 -0400 X-Internal-ID: 370F510800007D68 Received: from a.statcan.ca (142.205.168.15) by imap1a.statcan.ca (NPlex 2.0.112) for advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:09:41 -0400 Message-ID: <371DF921.76365723@a.statcan.ca> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:13:21 -0400 From: Mike Jeays Organization: Statistics Canada/Statistique Canada X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-CA MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I too prefer the 2.2.x series daemons - the 3.1 version simply doesn't look right. I also didn't like the version of the coin that I saw - the graphics were beautifully done, but the daemon looked nothing like the FreeBSD daemon, but more like a Roman soldier with a funny hat. Great idea, but not right yet. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 12:54: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thyme.cisco.com (thyme.cisco.com [171.69.43.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D8B15807 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:52:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shibumi@cisco.com) Received: from miranda.cisco.com (dhcp-sjc5-107-233.cisco.com [171.71.107.233]) by thyme.cisco.com (8.8.8/2.5.1/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14282; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miranda.cisco.com by miranda.cisco.com (8.9.1) id MAA01574; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904211950.MAA01574@miranda.cisco.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Wes Peters Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Sam Stephenson , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:24:34 MDT." <371DFBC2.4C38BCFF@softweyr.com> Reply-To: shibumi@marchordie.org X-Disclaimer: Unless otherwise noted below, this is not a policy statement X-Url: http://www.shockwave.org/~shibumi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:50:18 -0700 From: "Kenton A. Hoover" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As opposed to "NT: Not working at the speed of thought"? On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:24:34 MDT, Sendmail channeled Wes Peters saying: > I've been thinking about this lately. How 'bout "FreeBSD: networking > at the speed of thought." | Kenton A. Hoover Network Team Manager | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1.408.526.5249 | |===================== http://www.shockwave.org/~shibumi ====================| | The real democratic American ideal is not that every man shall be on a | | level with every other man, but that every man shall have liberty to be | | what God made him. -- Henry Ward Beecher | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 13:48: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pc16s121r4.jancomulti.com (pc16s121r4.jancomulti.com [195.139.121.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D78158B3 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:47:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pms@jancomulti.com) Received: from jancomulti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pc16s121r4.jancomulti.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00486; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:42:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from pms@jancomulti.com) Message-ID: <371E2A1E.DEFD8681@jancomulti.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:42:22 +0200 From: "Pål Sommerhein" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: shibumi@marchordie.org Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks References: <199904211950.MAA01574@miranda.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kenton A. Hoover wrote: > > As opposed to "NT: Not working at the speed of thought"? Well... I would say: "NT: Working at its creators speed of thought" PMS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 13:58:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8187F159DD for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:58:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24205; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02606; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <371DF921.76365723@a.statcan.ca> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:55:33 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Chris Coleman Subject: Let Susannah (sp?) know she's appreciated.. Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris, I know that it oft seems that FreeBSD'ers are pretty long on critique and short on praise, but please let Susannah (hope I'm spelling all these names right) know that we really do appreciate the graphics she's doing. Not all of us may always like all of them, but I for one, and I'm sure many, many others as well, am very grateful for the work she's putting in to all these new images. Thanks. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 13:58:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832A8159DE for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24213; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05944; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199904211950.MAA01574@miranda.cisco.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:55:34 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Kenton A. Hoover" Subject: Re: Trademarks Cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, you know NT = Not Today.. which would seem to imply that it's a bit slower than thought. Assuming that we each have more than one thought a day that is... ;) On 21-Apr-99 Kenton A. Hoover wrote: > As opposed to "NT: Not working at the speed of thought"? > > On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:24:34 MDT, Sendmail channeled Wes Peters saying: >> I've been thinking about this lately. How 'bout "FreeBSD: networking >> at the speed of thought." --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 14: 7:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1794C158E4 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:04:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23667; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: John Baldwin Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Let Susannah (sp?) know she's appreciated.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My wife Susannah really appreciates all feedback she gets, especially when it is positive. She is working on a CD cover that features a daemon that looks very much like the traditional one. -Chris On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, John Baldwin wrote: > Chris, > > I know that it oft seems that FreeBSD'ers are pretty long on critique and short > on praise, but please let Susannah (hope I'm spelling all these names right) > know that we really do appreciate the graphics she's doing. Not all of us may > always like all of them, but I for one, and I'm sure many, many others as well, > am very grateful for the work she's putting in to all these new images. Thanks. > > --- > > John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ > PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 14:20: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from netmug.org (netmug.org [204.188.144.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88AF615835 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perl@netmug.org) Received: from localhost (perl@localhost) by netmug.org (8.8.8/NetMUG_1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA23677; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: perl To: Mike Jeays Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <371DF921.76365723@a.statcan.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Mike Jeays wrote: > I too prefer the 2.2.x series daemons - the 3.1 version simply doesn't look right. That is because it didn't have a tail. Michael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 15:10:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6ABBD15931 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:10:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 10450 invoked by alias); 21 Apr 1999 22:08:03 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 10431 invoked by uid 0); 21 Apr 1999 22:08:02 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 1999 22:08:02 -0000 Message-ID: <371E4C2F.7B655071@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:07:43 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Andrew I. Arbuckle" Cc: Sam Stephenson , FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: Trademarks References: <371E1408.4309B3CB@naxs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Andrew I. Arbuckle" wrote: > Sam Stephenson wrote: >> How difficult of a process would it be to get the name "FreeBSD" and the >> slogan "The power to serve" trademarked? Would the grant money cover this? >> I think it'd be very cool to be able to say "FreeBSD(R)." It might earn >> more respect with the corporate professionals as well. > > FreeBSD has no copyright yet? If it is worth protecting, it should be > protected, even if it requires a solicitation for the needed funds (I > tend to think that a simple copyright is not that expensive). Perhaps > the poweres that be could request that purchasers of FreeBSD add a > dollar to support ongoing efforts, to include image protection? Perhaps a check-boxed "Support the Project" line could be added to the order forms at freebsdmall and WC? -- I refuse to have a .sig To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 15:12: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32D01542E for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:11:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10a5B2-000MlU-0K; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:09:05 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id XAA04760; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:08:18 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id XAA00710; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:04:19 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:04:19 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: shibumi@marchordie.org Cc: Wes Peters , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Sam Stephenson , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Trademarks Message-ID: <19990421230419.C266@marder-1> References: <371DFBC2.4C38BCFF@softweyr.com> <199904211950.MAA01574@miranda.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199904211950.MAA01574@miranda.cisco.com>; from Kenton A. Hoover on Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 12:50:18PM -0700 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 21, 1999 at 12:50:18PM -0700, Kenton A. Hoover wrote: > As opposed to "NT: Not working at the speed of thought"? > Or simply "NT: Not Working" > On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:24:34 MDT, Sendmail channeled Wes Peters saying: > > I've been thinking about this lately. How 'bout "FreeBSD: networking > > at the speed of thought." > > | Kenton A. Hoover Network Team Manager | shibumi@cisco.com | > | Engineering Computer Services | | > | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1.408.526.5249 | > |===================== http://www.shockwave.org/~shibumi ====================| > | The real democratic American ideal is not that every man shall be on a | > | level with every other man, but that every man shall have liberty to be | > | what God made him. -- Henry Ward Beecher | > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 15:17:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 124FF15931 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 13929 invoked by alias); 21 Apr 1999 22:14:58 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 13904 invoked by uid 0); 21 Apr 1999 22:14:58 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 1999 22:14:58 -0000 Message-ID: <371E4DCE.4D5CAD6F@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:14:38 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l?= Sommerhein Cc: shibumi@marchordie.org, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks References: <199904211950.MAA01574@miranda.cisco.com> <371E2A1E.DEFD8681@jancomulti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Pål Sommerhein" wrote: > > Kenton A. Hoover wrote: > > > > As opposed to "NT: Not working at the speed of thought"? > > Well... I would say: > "NT: Working at its creators speed of thought" I though NT stood for Not Thinking? D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 16:22:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pc16s121r4.jancomulti.com (pc16s121r4.jancomulti.com [195.139.121.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA5F1543C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:21:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pms@jancomulti.com) Received: from jancomulti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pc16s121r4.jancomulti.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA01296; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:16:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from pms@jancomulti.com) Message-ID: <371E4E27.288AF2A1@jancomulti.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:16:07 +0200 From: "Pål Sommerhein" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: shibumi@marchordie.org, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks References: <199904211950.MAA01574@miranda.cisco.com> <371E2A1E.DEFD8681@jancomulti.com> <371E4DCE.4D5CAD6F@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darren Pilgrim wrote: > I though NT stood for Not Thinking? Ah, that's it :-) "NT: A Non Thinking OS for Non Thinkers" PMS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 17:52: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D1B150CD for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id JAA18288; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:49:29 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <371DB132.6DBE1632@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:06:26 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ombudsman (sp? :) References: <13468.924678092@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > Could we have an ombudsman list? Ie, a mailing address for complains > > about us? While I fear it might get spammed with Brett Glass > > messages, I'm concerned that there isn't any obvious place for users > > to express their dissatisfactions. > > Hmmmm. You mean like complaints@freebsd.org or something? Is it also > OK if nobody from core actually subscribes to it? :-) Yes, and yes. At the very least, it would be a useful tool for us advocacy types. You know, knowing what people *don't* like about us... Of course, there should be a warning to the effect that this is a feedback tool for us, and not a problem-solving list. Ie, people shouldn't expect to have their complains *answered*. Instead, they may (or may not) be *addressed*. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 17:52:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850A01547B for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:52:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id JAA18402; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:49:52 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <371E70BE.30EB2FF@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:43:42 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman Cc: John Baldwin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Let Susannah (sp?) know she's appreciated.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > My wife Susannah really appreciates all feedback > she gets, especially when it is positive. She is working on a CD cover > that features a daemon that looks very much like the traditional one. I think the general feeling is that her ideas are very interesting, but we want the traditional daemon in them. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 18: 6:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D39015553 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:06:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01560; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:03:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371E755E.BD232EB5@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:03:26 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman Cc: John Baldwin , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, The Artist currently known as Susannah Subject: Re: Let Susannah (sp?) know she's appreciated.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > My wife Susannah really appreciates all feedback > she gets, especially when it is positive. She is working on a CD cover > that features a daemon that looks very much like the traditional one. Oh, for cool! I can't wait to see Susannah's interpretation of the cherub/daemon. Careful what you do with that tail, though. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 18:49:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03EF915909 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA46048; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ZD Open Source Forum In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:02:01 PDT." <19990419030201.A71817@ontario.mooseriver.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:45:44 -0700 Message-ID: <46046.924745544@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Found this on slashdot. This is taking place in Austin, Texas on June 30 > and July 1. Are we going to have a FreeBSD representive at this ? Whoever > goes to this had better like heat! I don't know of anyone scheduled to go to this. Any takers? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 22:11:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898D2153F0; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27493; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:08:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: jkh@freebsd.org Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Gateway computers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I spoke with my contact at gateway today. He said he has left messages with Bob Bruce about the status of the FreeBSD certification, but has received no word. He has collected ~60 e-mail related to FreeBSD for gateway, with some possible duplication. However he is planning on grouping them up and sending them to corporate headquarters along with the certification stuff. He has distributed several CDs to Gateway, and when customers call up and ask for Linux, he tells them that FreeBSD is available and gives them a CD. I would like to move this project along, with the help of the advocacy list. I didn't see Gateway listed on our advocacy page. We should list them as 'FreeBSD Certified Hardware' and put a link to http://www.gateway.com/corp/eseries/e52_500/ He would like to get the lower end Server line certified also and that will take some special driver writing. So lets get this project moved along. E-mail Fritz Fitzgibbons, my gateway rep, at fitzgfri@gateway.com if you haven't already to let them know you would like to see FreeBSD offered at gateway. We already have one salesman converted. They are driven by customer demand, lets show a little. -Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 23: 1:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8441593C; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:00:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA47170; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Chris Coleman Cc: jkh@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gateway computers In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:08:59 EDT." Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:57:22 -0700 Message-ID: <47167.924760642@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I spoke with my contact at gateway today. He said he has left messages > with Bob Bruce about the status of the FreeBSD certification, but has > received no word. You should have him talk to me - Bob's notorious for returning phone calls rarely, if ever. :-) My phone number is in my finger entry (finger jkh@freebsd.org) or look me up in Concord, CA information. > He has collected ~60 e-mail related to FreeBSD for gateway, with some > possible duplication. However he is planning on grouping them up and > sending them to corporate headquarters along with the certification stuff. Sounds good to me. > He has distributed several CDs to Gateway, and when customers call up and > ask for Linux, he tells them that FreeBSD is available and gives them a > CD. We just got the Permedia II card back from XiG, who patched their X server to actually work with it. Once we get this back from them, we can fulfill the original terms of the agreement by providing Gateway with a FreeBSD + Xaccel CDROM that they can either buy at the XiG price (since we can't pass that bit along for free, XiG would be upset :) or a FreeBSD + XFree86 CDROM that they can provide to those who don't wish to have the super-duper X server. > He would like to get the lower end Server line certified also and that > will take some special driver writing. So lets get this project moved Yeah, the MegaRAID stuff is still a real problem and I'd like to see a solution to it soon but the hows and the whys are an open question. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 21 23:38:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D0A15942; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:38:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28071; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:35:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway computers In-Reply-To: <47167.924760642@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yeah, the MegaRAID stuff is still a real problem and I'd like to see a > solution to it soon but the hows and the whys are an open question. Is the ADAC A-466 Ultra2 RAID card a MegaRAID card? -Chris > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 5:19:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vtopus.cs.vt.edu (vtopus.cs.vt.edu [128.173.40.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71925153EE for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhagan@vtopus.cs.vt.edu) Received: (from dhagan@localhost) by vtopus.cs.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA24932; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:16:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Hagan To: fitzgfri@gateway.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear Sir, It has come to my attention that Gateway 2000 is considering offering FreeBSD on its computer systems. My employer, the Virginia Tech Computer Science Department, has a Major Account with Gateway, and we are already a major user of FreeBSD. In the past we have had to perform in-house installation of FreeBSD on all of our Gateway PC's (including some of your server configurations). I would be most interested in seeing FreeBSD offered as a out-of-the-box option. I would also be happy to offer my experience and knowledge of FreeBSD installations on your hardware, if your engineers would be interested. We have been very satisfied with the quality of your products and service, as well as FreeBSD's reliability and performance. I would be overjoyed to see Gateway officially supporting FreeBSD as an OS option. Sincerely, Daniel Hagan Computer Systems Engineer, Virginia Tech CS Dept. -- Daniel Hagan Computer Systems Engineer dhagan@cs.vt.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 5:34:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8040D14DAD for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:34:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:29:50 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: dhagan@cs.vt.edu Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:29:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If people are going to send things like this to Gateway (or anyone else) please don't CC it to the advocacy group. It totally negates any positive advocacy you might achieve. > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Hagan [mailto:dhagan@cs.vt.edu] > Sent: 22 April 1999 13:17 > To: fitzgfri@gateway.com > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 > > > Dear Sir, > > It has come to my attention that Gateway 2000 is considering > offering FreeBSD on its computer systems. My employer, the > Virginia Tech > Computer Science Department, has a Major Account with > Gateway, and we are > already a major user of FreeBSD. In the past we have had to perform > in-house installation of FreeBSD on all of our Gateway PC's (including > some of your server configurations). I would be most > interested in seeing > FreeBSD offered as a out-of-the-box option. I would also be happy to > offer my experience and knowledge of FreeBSD installations on your > hardware, if your engineers would be interested. > > We have been very satisfied with the quality of your > products and > service, as well as FreeBSD's reliability and performance. I would be > overjoyed to see Gateway officially supporting FreeBSD as an > OS option. > > Sincerely, > > Daniel Hagan > Computer Systems Engineer, Virginia Tech CS Dept. > > -- > Daniel Hagan > Computer Systems Engineer > dhagan@cs.vt.edu > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 5:42:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E71715166 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:41:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:37:20 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, chrisc@vmunix.com Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Gateway computers Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:37:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Jordan K. Hubbard [mailto:jkh@zippy.cdrom.com] > Sent: 22 April 1999 06:57 > To: Chris Coleman > Cc: jkh@freebsd.org; advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Gateway computers > > > > I spoke with my contact at gateway today. He said he has > left messages > > with Bob Bruce about the status of the FreeBSD > certification, but has > > received no word. > > You should have him talk to me - Bob's notorious for returning phone > calls rarely, if ever. :-) My phone number is in my finger entry > (finger jkh@freebsd.org) or look me up in Concord, CA information. > > > He has collected ~60 e-mail related to FreeBSD for gateway, > with some > > possible duplication. However he is planning on grouping > them up and > > sending them to corporate headquarters along with the > certification stuff. > > Sounds good to me. > > > He has distributed several CDs to Gateway, and when > customers call up and > > ask for Linux, he tells them that FreeBSD is available and > gives them a > > CD. > > We just got the Permedia II card back from XiG, who patched their X > server to actually work with it. Once we get this back from them, we > can fulfill the original terms of the agreement by providing Gateway > with a FreeBSD + Xaccel CDROM that they can either buy at the > XiG price > (since we can't pass that bit along for free, XiG would be upset :) > or a FreeBSD + XFree86 CDROM that they can provide to those who don't > wish to have the super-duper X server. Wouldn't XiG be willing to give away *one* copy of Xaccel in order for Gateway to certify their machines? It would be very shortsighted of them not to. "Gateway, certified for FreeBSD + Xaccel" would be quite a coup for them wouldn't it? I'm sure they'd much prefer it to "Gateway, certified for FreeBSD + XFree86" ! Paul Richards Originative Solutions Ltd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 7:53:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C0014D96 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02876; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:51:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <371F3751.17FD1CCC@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:50:57 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: dhagan@cs.vt.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > > If people are going to send things like this to Gateway (or anyone else) > please don't CC it to the advocacy group. It totally negates any positive > advocacy you might achieve. Or at least be clever enough to BCC the list so the recipient won't see it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 8:29:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B963114D95 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA21261; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:26:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:26:58 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Wes Peters Cc: paul@originative.co.uk, dhagan@cs.vt.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 In-Reply-To: <371F3751.17FD1CCC@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > > > > If people are going to send things like this to Gateway (or anyone else) > > please don't CC it to the advocacy group. It totally negates any positive > > advocacy you might achieve. > > Or at least be clever enough to BCC the list so the recipient won't see it. Better yet, send it once just to the intended recipient, then send it *again* just to the -advocacy list. God help us if some goofball blindly hits "Reply to all recipients" and ends up getting someone's customer service department mired in a thread :P Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 11:55:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121F215A80 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA49614; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: chrisc@vmunix.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gateway computers In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:37:19 BST." Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:51:43 -0700 Message-ID: <49612.924807103@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Wouldn't XiG be willing to give away *one* copy of Xaccel in order for > Gateway to certify their machines? It would be very shortsighted of them not > to. This isn't about certification, this is about giving Gateway something that they can pass on to customers. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 16:52:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D49B215411 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 12EDD2EE1A; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1233 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:50:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Compag willing to "support" FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG =20 Apparently a couple of bosses of mine went to a meeting with compag. They = were looking I belive for NT hardware, but were told that they would support the= ir boxes, even with FreeBSD on it. Suprized me. I hate compag, but I thought it was interesting. I don't know what sort of "limitations" apply but I may find out. Bleh Nicole |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 19:47:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A8A1521B for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:47:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25371; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:44:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd025201; Thu Apr 22 19:44:42 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA11800; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:44:36 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904230244.TAA11800@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Yield to FreeBSD To: nicole@nmhtech.com (Nicole Harrington) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:44:35 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dpilgrim@uswest.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, dlombardo@excite.com, chrisc@vmunix.com In-Reply-To: from "Nicole Harrington" at Apr 21, 99 06:50:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have to agree with him. It's like "New Coke." Remember how well that went > over! Bring back the Classic Daemon! A symbol of Power, not of a party life! > > Are we trying to make him look cute and happy to "keep up" with the penguin? > We are inovators. We should chase no one. Heh. This analogy is too funny. New Coke was just a way for them to change over from using solid sugar to using liquid high fructose corn syrup, which was cheaper, and for which the handling equipment has a much higher MTBF. I think this probably means two things: 1) When people go back to drawing the "old chuck", FreeBSD will have a higher MTBF. 2) When people go back to drawing the "old chuck", they will be able to use less expensive red markers, and people will be so happy about getting the "old chuck" back, they won't notice the slightly different color. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 20:31:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pokey.local.net (tcs4-21.netwalk.net [206.175.52.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72816154D4 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:30:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmutter@netwalk.com) Received: from insomnia.local.net (insomnia.local.net [192.168.2.3]) by pokey.local.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA22367; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:27:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jmutter@insomnia.local.net) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:30:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "James A. Mutter" Reply-To: jmutter@netwalk.com To: Nicole Harrington Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Compag willing to "support" FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : Apparently a couple of bosses of mine went to a meeting with compag. They were :looking I belive for NT hardware, but were told that they would support their :boxes, even with FreeBSD on it. I wouldn't be surprised if that support ended at clearly defective hardware. I doubt that they would be willing to support anything beyond that. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 23:16:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thneed.ubergeeks.com (thneed.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71B914FF1 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by thneed.ubergeeks.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03590; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:13:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) X-Authentication-Warning: thneed.ubergeeks.com: adrian owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:13:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Daniel Hagan Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi folks, I already sent some mail to Gateway inquiring about their options. I haven't hear back yet though. I thought I'd share an anecdotal paragraph from my message. You could say I'm trying to show that FreeBSD has been runing on Gateway boxes for a long time. In fact, I actually has 386BSD 0.1 on it until FreeBSD 1.0 arrived on the scene. ;-) FYI, about 5 feet from where I'm typing this, is a genuine Gateway 486/66E that was subsequently upgraded to a 100MHz processor. This box has been a dedicated FreeBSD box for most of the 7 years since I bought it from Gateway. Even at such a tremendous age in high-tech years, it still makes a great ISDN router, mailserver, webserver, ftpserver, NFS fileserver, IMAP and a few other services. You could say I'm a satisfied customer who is interested in new the options. A new mid range server would be a nice replacement for this old box. Then again, if it ain't broke, why mess with it. cheers, Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 22 23:42: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2231514B for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07702; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Daniel Hagan , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It has been nice to see the response people have given this advocacy project. It is especially nice to see a few "Major Accounts" back us up. Gateway really starts to notice when a "Major Account" makes a move. Maybe us Gateway Major Accounts should have a powwow on how best to help gateway move in the direction of FreeBSD. -Chris On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > hi folks, > > I already sent some mail to Gateway inquiring about their options. > I haven't hear back yet though. I thought I'd share an anecdotal paragraph > from my message. You could say I'm trying to show that FreeBSD has been > runing on Gateway boxes for a long time. In fact, I actually has 386BSD > 0.1 on it until FreeBSD 1.0 arrived on the scene. ;-) > > > FYI, about 5 feet from where I'm typing this, is a genuine > Gateway 486/66E that was subsequently upgraded to a 100MHz > processor. This box has been a dedicated FreeBSD box for > most of the 7 years since I bought it from Gateway. Even > at such a tremendous age in high-tech years, it still makes > a great ISDN router, mailserver, webserver, ftpserver, NFS > fileserver, IMAP and a few other services. You could say > I'm a satisfied customer who is interested in new the > options. A new mid range server would be a nice replacement > for this old box. Then again, if it ain't broke, why mess > with it. > > cheers, > > Adrian > -- > [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 4:42:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from stcgate.statcan.ca (stcgate.statcan.ca [142.206.192.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087CF14E9D for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeays@statcan.ca) Received: from stcinet (stcinet.statcan.ca [142.206.128.146]) by stcgate.statcan.ca (8.9.1/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA06885 For ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from statcan.ca by statcan.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA14349; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:40:42 -0400; sender jeays@statcan.ca Message-ID: <37205BD4.D7D1FDE3@statcan.ca> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:39:01 -0400 From: Mike Jeays Organization: Statistics Canada X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A844BB0EBD3DD8F0BAB17E6F" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A844BB0EBD3DD8F0BAB17E6F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is great advocacy from the point of view of users, but it may not be what hardware vendors want to hear! It shows up the way in which Microsoft and Intel have steadily jacked up the "need" for up to date hardware all too clearly. Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > hi folks, > > I already sent some mail to Gateway inquiring about their options. > I haven't hear back yet though. I thought I'd share an anecdotal paragraph > from my message. You could say I'm trying to show that FreeBSD has been > runing on Gateway boxes for a long time. In fact, I actually has 386BSD > 0.1 on it until FreeBSD 1.0 arrived on the scene. ;-) > > FYI, about 5 feet from where I'm typing this, is a genuine > Gateway 486/66E that was subsequently upgraded to a 100MHz > processor. This box has been a dedicated FreeBSD box for > most of the 7 years since I bought it from Gateway. Even > at such a tremendous age in high-tech years, it still makes > a great ISDN router, mailserver, webserver, ftpserver, NFS > fileserver, IMAP and a few other services. You could say > I'm a satisfied customer who is interested in new the > options. A new mid range server would be a nice replacement > for this old box. Then again, if it ain't broke, why mess > with it. > > cheers, > > Adrian > -- > [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --------------A844BB0EBD3DD8F0BAB17E6F Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jeays.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Mike Jeays Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jeays.vcf" begin:vcard n:Jeays;Mike x-mozilla-html:TRUE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:jeays@statcan.ca x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Mike Jeays end:vcard --------------A844BB0EBD3DD8F0BAB17E6F-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 7: 6:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thor.inlink.com (thor.inlink.com [206.196.96.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DEB214D49 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:06:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rayseals@midwestis.com) Received: from sparc.midwestis.com (mail.midwestis.com [206.196.126.220]) by thor.inlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17430 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:04:17 -0500 Received: from rseals ([204.193.71.55] (may be forged)) by sparc.midwestis.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06200 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:04:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Ray Seals" To: "Advocacy" Subject: Dell & FreeBSD Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:04:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't know if anyone is keeping a list of machines or brands that FreeBSD works well with but here is one for the list. Last night a pulled a brand spanking new Dell Dimension V400 out of the box. This machine is a 400MHz PII with 128 megs of RAM and 6 Gig IDE Hard drive. It has a built in ATI Rage 3D card and a 3Com PCI 10/100 Ethernet controller. While I have never really had problems installing FreeBSD on a machine I always seem to have issues with XFree86. It usually involves the video card. Let me tell you, this was so easy I had to write this email. I had a fully function workstation in about 1 hour flat. Color me a happy camper. Ray Seals To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 7:42: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.numachi.com (numachi.numachi.com [198.175.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9160A14D46 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reichert@numachi.com) Received: (qmail 10340 invoked by uid 1001); 23 Apr 1999 14:39:17 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:39:17 -0400 From: Brian Reichert To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dell & FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990423103916.E2506@numachi.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Ray Seals on Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 09:04:38AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 09:04:38AM -0500, Ray Seals wrote: > I don't know if anyone is keeping a list of machines or brands that FreeBSD > works well with but here is one for the list. Last night a pulled a brand > spanking new Dell Dimension V400 out of the box. My recent experiences with Dell boxes and FreeBSD: Various desktops: Dell Dimension XPS T500 Installed without a hitch. I used 'RIVA TNT' as the video card for X. The CD-ROM is a NEC CD-ROM DRIVE:28D/3.04. I've been having poor luck using this CD rom as a music player (I'm using /dev/racd0c). The two that work best are xcdplayer and cda, the others are inconsistent. The sound card, if I've pulled all of the lore together, is (according to the Win98 installation) a 'Yamaha DS-GX Legacy Sound System', with the associated chipsets: MPU401 and YMF724. I can't get anything to work. :( Perhaps someone could clear things up for me: the YMF724 is 'the PCI controller which talks to the codec' (according to a recent post to -hackers by Luigi), and the MPU401 is a MIDI chipset. I don't know enough about sounds cards to cobble together a kernel that probes all of this, much less even any basic sound card ability. Advice, anyone? Servers: Poweredge 1300 Install started great, until it was revealed that FreeBSD wasn't probing the CD-ROM. It's very frustrating to boot from the CD-ROM, only to have the OS swear that it's not there. I tried twice to install with various cablings/jumper settings, but to no avail. Because we were pressed for time, I had to install Red Hat on it. :( Poweredge 6300 We were shot dead, as this box was provisioned with the PERC2 SC RAID controller, which seems to be really an AMI MegaRAID. FreeBSD doesn't support this. Again, I had to go with Red Hat. :( -- Brian 'you Bastard' Reichert reichert@numachi.com 37 Crystal Ave. #303 Current daytime number: (603)-434-6842 Derry NH 03038-1713 USA Intel architecture: the left-hand path To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 9:37:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3777514D38 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:37:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17023; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:34:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id LAA29256; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:34:19 -0500 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id LAA21221; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:34:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:34:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199904231634.LAA21221@free.pcs> To: nicole@nmhtech.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Compag willing to "support" FreeBSD X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-advocacy In-Reply-To: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: > > Apparently a couple of bosses of mine went to a meeting with compag. They were >looking I belive for NT hardware, but were told that they would support their >boxes, even with FreeBSD on it. > > Suprized me. > > I hate compag, but I thought it was interesting. I don't know what sort of >"limitations" apply but I may find out. Bleh If you find out, I'd be really interested too. One of the managers here has decided to standardize on Compaq hardware, but has also decided to go with FreeBSD for our internal servers. It would be nice if Compaq had some sort of support for FBSD (formal or informal). -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 10:23:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465A015122; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:23:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25166; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:20:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: Brett Glass Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990413175507.04df8100@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett, I know this is a bit late, but some of us do a fine job af "marketing" and PR at a grassroots level, most of my students are now starting to use FreeBSD and consider it a more than viable alternative to Linux, this was by saying "Hey I respect Linux, but take a look at this" I've burned mroe copies of my 3.1 CD's in the past 2 months than I ever have. Another thing is, YOUR PR is very effective at inflaming people, not gaining them to your side. Thats what it is effective in doing. Not in promoting FreeBSD (at least from my standpoint) JOrdan is just the type of spokeperson that got some major FreeBSD representation at one of the Open Source discussion forums lately, as well as getting Eric Raymond to agree to wear a FreeBSD polo shirt if sent to him. You are just the person who tends to piss people off. -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking "Wow, everyone looks different in Real Life (tm)"- Nathan Dorfman meeting people at FUNY "Suicide is painless, switching to NT isn't."- Unknown ___________________________________________________________________________ On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > My kind of PR is EFFECTIVE PR. Your PR, which has burdened FreeBSD > for many years, has set the OS so far behind Linux in market share > and visibility that it may never catch up. > > --Brett Glass > > At 04:26 PM 4/13/99 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> With all due respect, PR is not one of Jordan's strong points. > > > >With all due respect, *your kind* of PR is not one of my strong points > >and I hope to god it never is. That would be like deciding to become > >a divorce lawyer. :-) > > > >- Jordan > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 10:35:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC168152EC for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:35:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4627B2EE1A; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1981 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:32:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Ray Seals Subject: RE: Dell & FreeBSD Cc: Advocacy Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Ray Seals wrote: > I don't know if anyone is keeping a list of machines or brands that FreeB= SD > works well with but here is one for the list. Last night a pulled a bran= d > spanking new Dell Dimension V400 out of the box. This machine is a 400MH= z > PII with 128 megs of RAM and 6 Gig IDE Hard drive. It has a built in ATI > Rage 3D card and a 3Com PCI 10/100 Ethernet controller. >=20 > While I have never really had problems installing FreeBSD on a machine I > always seem to have issues with XFree86. It usually involves the video > card. Let me tell you, this was so easy I had to write this email. I ha= d a > fully function workstation in about 1 hour flat. >=20 > Color me a happy camper. >=20 > Ray Seals Yes, we have several in our NOC as Xwindows machines and they Rock. The networking almost seems faster somehow too. I don't know if it is becouse o= f the built in ethernet card or not. Nicole >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 10:56: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D703814FFE; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:55:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lynch@rush.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25376; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:52:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Lynch To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Philip Kizer , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Charles Henrich a Star? In-Reply-To: <634.924455605@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lets beat them senseless and make them print the press release... (thats what some would have us do) -Pat ___________________________________________________________________________ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net Systems Administrator Rush Networking "Wow, everyone looks different in Real Life (tm)"- Nathan Dorfman meeting people at FUNY "Suicide is painless, switching to NT isn't."- Unknown ___________________________________________________________________________ On Sun, 18 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Is there a press release yet for that one to which we can point people? > > A press release requires a willing press. :) So far, we haven't had > much luck there. > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 11: 5:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8AD5154A6 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:05:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA12053; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:02:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd011993; Fri Apr 23 11:02:31 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24545; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:02:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904231802.LAA24545@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Trademarks To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:02:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, sam@conio.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <371DFBC2.4C38BCFF@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at Apr 21, 99 10:24:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm not sure if "The power to serve" is worth trademarking though; > > we tend to change our slogan every couple of years. :-) > > I've been thinking about this lately. How 'bout "FreeBSD: networking > at the speed of thought." To be pedantic, neurons repolarize in 1/120th of a second, making "the speed of though" 120 Hz. This would be a more appropriate slogan for NT^W*ahem* a different OS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 11:27:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF24014EB2 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14578; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:25:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd014420; Fri Apr 23 11:24:54 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25659; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:24:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904231824.LAA25659@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 To: paul@originative.co.uk Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:24:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dhagan@cs.vt.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "paul@originative.co.uk" at Apr 22, 99 01:29:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If people are going to send things like this to Gateway (or anyone else) > please don't CC it to the advocacy group. It totally negates any positive > advocacy you might achieve. In particular, there are two glaring problems: 1) Exposure of the list address makes it look insincere, and instead a result of an organized campaign, even if, as in this case, it wasn't. 2) Exposure of the intended recipient to follow-up replies having to do with meta discussions or corrections and contradictions by others who do not note the recipient is included. Again, this makes it look insincere, but worse, it weakens the message considerably, since not only is it apparently an organized effort, it is also apparently an amatuerish and poorly organized effort, if the externally visable front they present is not united. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 12:13:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C6521554C for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-029.thuntek.net [207.66.52.29]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA10942; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3720C551.52F416CD@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:09:05 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: nicole@nmhtech.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compag willing to "support" FreeBSD References: <199904231634.LAA21221@free.pcs> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > In article you write: > > > > Apparently a couple of bosses of mine went to a meeting with compag. They were > >looking I belive for NT hardware, but were told that they would support their > >boxes, even with FreeBSD on it. > > > > Suprized me. > > > > I hate compag, but I thought it was interesting. I don't know what sort of > >"limitations" apply but I may find out. Bleh > > If you find out, I'd be really interested too. One of the managers > here has decided to standardize on Compaq hardware, but has also decided > to go with FreeBSD for our internal servers. It would be nice if Compaq > had some sort of support for FBSD (formal or informal). > Can you get said manager to draft a letter to his Compaq sales rep referencing this desire? -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 13:13:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9101A14D98 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id FAA18681; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:10:59 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3720D357.EF5B595B@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:08:55 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD FAQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Published on CNET: http://home.cnet.com/category/topic/0,10000,0-3721-7-279437,00.html?tag=dd.cn.txt.0422.03 The ten most common questions about Linux. Our own FAQ covers many of these questions, but fails to answer the FreeBSD/Windows questions. Perhaps even more important, the FAQ is long. Look at how things are layed out at cnet. Ten questions in no more than four lines. Direct and to the point. Click on them, and you'll get longer explanations. But the ten-items listing is short and undaunting. We need something like this. And we need to include the Windows and tutorial-like questions too. They may not be about FreeBSD distribution, but people buy OS to run applications, remember... -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 15:29: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6374314CA4 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 212B32EE1A; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 2262 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3720C551.52F416CD@thuntek.net> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:26:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Donald Wilde Subject: Re: Compag willing to "support" FreeBSD Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jonathan Lemon Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Donald Wilde wrote: > Jonathan Lemon wrote: >>=20 >> In article >> you >> write: >> > >> > Apparently a couple of bosses of mine went to a meeting with compag. T= hey >> > were >> >looking I belive for NT hardware, but were told that they would support >> >their >> >boxes, even with FreeBSD on it. >> > >> > Suprized me. >> > >> > I hate compag, but I thought it was interesting. I don't know what sor= t of >> >"limitations" apply but I may find out. Bleh >>=20 >> If you find out, I'd be really interested too. One of the managers >> here has decided to standardize on Compaq hardware, but has also decided >> to go with FreeBSD for our internal servers. It would be nice if Compaq >> had some sort of support for FBSD (formal or informal). >>=20 >=20 > Can you get said manager to draft a letter to his Compaq sales rep > referencing this desire? >=20 =20 Probobly, but I have always had bad experiences with Compaq. I would rathe= r we didn't buy them. Compaq has always been in bed with MS too, for that I have= no desire to help them. Nicole > --=20 > Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" > Wilde Media > 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 16:26:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thneed.ubergeeks.com (thneed.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8F514E67 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:26:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by thneed.ubergeeks.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00986; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:23:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) X-Authentication-Warning: thneed.ubergeeks.com: adrian owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:23:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Mike Jeays Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 In-Reply-To: <37205BD4.D7D1FDE3@statcan.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FYI, the rest of the letter went into how I would like being able to supply consulting clients with boxes from a familiar source and so they feel like the might not have to rely 100% upon me and othe routsiders. Not that they don't trust me, but they always ask about stuff that wasn't shrink wrapped by a big name. I also made the honest admission that I would probably only consider midrange systems from Gateway because I still prefer to build the mission/performance criticle boxes myself. I, however, would welcome a decent midrange server option. The antique story was just a warm and fuzzy thing to establish that I have been a Gateway customer in the past and happy about it. On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Mike Jeays wrote: > This is great advocacy from the point of view of users, but it may not be > what hardware vendors want to hear! It shows up the way in which > Microsoft and Intel have steadily jacked up the "need" for up to date > hardware all too clearly. > > Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > > hi folks, > > > > I already sent some mail to Gateway inquiring about their options. > > I haven't hear back yet though. I thought I'd share an anecdotal paragraph > > from my message. You could say I'm trying to show that FreeBSD has been > > runing on Gateway boxes for a long time. In fact, I actually has 386BSD > > 0.1 on it until FreeBSD 1.0 arrived on the scene. ;-) > > > > FYI, about 5 feet from where I'm typing this, is a genuine > > Gateway 486/66E that was subsequently upgraded to a 100MHz > > processor. This box has been a dedicated FreeBSD box for > > most of the 7 years since I bought it from Gateway. Even > > at such a tremendous age in high-tech years, it still makes > > a great ISDN router, mailserver, webserver, ftpserver, NFS > > fileserver, IMAP and a few other services. You could say > > I'm a satisfied customer who is interested in new the > > options. A new mid range server would be a nice replacement > > for this old box. Then again, if it ain't broke, why mess > > with it. > > > > cheers, > > > > Adrian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 17: 1:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CCF8714E42 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:01:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 3901 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 1999 23:59:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 3775 invoked by uid 0); 23 Apr 1999 23:58:59 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 1999 23:58:59 -0000 Message-ID: <3721092E.64D261CE@uswest.net> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:58:38 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Wes Peters , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, sam@conio.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks References: <199904231802.LAA24545@usr02.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: >>> I'm not sure if "The power to serve" is worth trademarking though; >>> we tend to change our slogan every couple of years. :-) >> >> I've been thinking about this lately. How 'bout "FreeBSD: networking >> at the speed of thought." > > To be pedantic, neurons repolarize in 1/120th of a second, making > "the speed of though" 120 Hz. Yes, but the brain is capable of repolarizing them more than one at a time. The brain is the ultimate SMP system. So is FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 23 17:50:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CA514E1E for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:50:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id RAA19887; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id RAA22275; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:46:42 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA06603; Fri, 23 Apr 99 17:46:40 PDT Message-Id: <37211471.43F5F48B@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:46:41 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, sam@conio.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trademarks References: <199904231802.LAA24545@usr02.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > I'm not sure if "The power to serve" is worth trademarking though; > > > we tend to change our slogan every couple of years. :-) > > > > I've been thinking about this lately. How 'bout "FreeBSD: networking > > at the speed of thought." > > To be pedantic, neurons repolarize in 1/120th of a second, making > "the speed of though" 120 Hz. > > This would be a more appropriate slogan for NT^W*ahem* a different OS. But somebody already used it for something else. An NT/Win2K marketing brochure, apparently. ;^) Chairman Bill: "Find some way to make me more money or I will have you publicly flogged, then force you to forfeit your stock options." Marketroid: "How 'bout selling our marketing materials to the customer rather than giving they away?" Chairman Bill: "Excellent idea. You're a Vice President now." -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 24 2:59:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B0114E77 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 02:59:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id AAA04019; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 00:35:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 00:35:05 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Daniel Hagan , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 Message-ID: <19990424003505.A3063@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Adrian Filipi-Martin on Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 02:13:11AM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 02:13:11AM -0400, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > FYI, about 5 feet from where I'm typing this, is a genuine > Gateway 486/66E that was subsequently upgraded to a 100MHz > processor. This box has been a dedicated FreeBSD box for > most of the 7 years since I bought it from Gateway. Even > at such a tremendous age in high-tech years, it still makes > a great ISDN router, mailserver, webserver, ftpserver, NFS > fileserver, IMAP and a few other services. You could say > I'm a satisfied customer who is interested in new the > options. A new mid range server would be a nice replacement > for this old box. Then again, if it ain't broke, why mess > with it. Just to play Daemon's Advocate for a second -- is this a good thing to point out? Is the hardware vendor not going to think "Er, hang on, they're not going to want to upgrade their kit every year from me if I support this OS. But if I support Win* then they're going to be upgrading every year. . ."? N -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 24 10:51:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from thneed.ubergeeks.com (thneed.ubergeeks.com [206.205.41.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A329C15168 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:51:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by thneed.ubergeeks.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21778; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:50:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from adrian@ubergeeks.com) X-Authentication-Warning: thneed.ubergeeks.com: adrian owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:50:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian Filipi-Martin Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Nik Clayton Cc: Daniel Hagan , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 In-Reply-To: <19990424003505.A3063@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 02:13:11AM -0400, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > FYI, about 5 feet from where I'm typing this, is a genuine > > Gateway 486/66E that was subsequently upgraded to a 100MHz > > processor. This box has been a dedicated FreeBSD box for > > most of the 7 years since I bought it from Gateway. Even > > at such a tremendous age in high-tech years, it still makes > > a great ISDN router, mailserver, webserver, ftpserver, NFS > > fileserver, IMAP and a few other services. You could say > > I'm a satisfied customer who is interested in new the > > options. A new mid range server would be a nice replacement > > for this old box. Then again, if it ain't broke, why mess > > with it. > > Just to play Daemon's Advocate for a second -- is this a good thing to > point out? Is the hardware vendor not going to think "Er, hang on, > they're not going to want to upgrade their kit every year from me if > I support this OS. But if I support Win* then they're going to be > upgrading every year. . ."? Hey, aren't we all daemon's advocates?... I guess you're the Devil's advocate as well. ;-) You view is one take on it. My point was more that I bought a quality system and it's lasted. I'm happy with the reliability. This was before the margins got so low that it became hard to predict what came in your box. The reason the above system is in the corner is because I'm sitting in front of a dual P-II 450 with 256MB. If Gateway sold preconfigured boxes like this with FreeBSD installled, I would consider them. I am particularly interested in having name-brand boxes with support that I can drop off with consulting clients, and I told them this. Note, that I did mention that I upgraded the processor. I didn't mention that I upgraded the audio, it had none, the RAM, serial I/O chipsets, the disk and added second AHA-1742 over the years. I didn't want to get into cataloging. In any event in the paragraphs I did not forward to the list I made it clear that I was interested in what their products in a business context and not my personal office. cheers, Adrian -- [ adrian@ubergeeks.com -- Ubergeeks Consulting -- http://www.ubergeeks.com/ ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 24 13:42:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BCF14F1B for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:42:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA17851; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:59:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:59:25 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Adrian Filipi-Martin Cc: Nik Clayton , Daniel Hagan , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, Nik Clayton wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 23, 1999 at 02:13:11AM -0400, Adrian Filipi-Martin wrote: > > > FYI, about 5 feet from where I'm typing this, is a genuine > > > Gateway 486/66E that was subsequently upgraded to a 100MHz > > > processor. This box has been a dedicated FreeBSD box for > > > most of the 7 years since I bought it from Gateway. Even > > > at such a tremendous age in high-tech years, it still makes > > > a great ISDN router, mailserver, webserver, ftpserver, NFS > > > fileserver, IMAP and a few other services. You could say > > > I'm a satisfied customer who is interested in new the > > > options. A new mid range server would be a nice replacement > > > for this old box. Then again, if it ain't broke, why mess > > > with it. > > > > Just to play Daemon's Advocate for a second -- is this a good thing to > > point out? Is the hardware vendor not going to think "Er, hang on, > > they're not going to want to upgrade their kit every year from me if > > I support this OS. But if I support Win* then they're going to be > > upgrading every year. . ."? > > Hey, aren't we all daemon's advocates?... I guess you're the > Devil's advocate as well. ;-) > > You view is one take on it. My point was more that I bought a > quality system and it's lasted. I'm happy with the reliability. This was > before the margins got so low that it became hard to predict what came in > your box. > > The reason the above system is in the corner is because I'm sitting > in front of a dual P-II 450 with 256MB. If Gateway sold preconfigured > boxes like this with FreeBSD installled, I would consider them. I am > particularly interested in having name-brand boxes with support that I can > drop off with consulting clients, and I told them this. > > Note, that I did mention that I upgraded the processor. I didn't > mention that I upgraded the audio, it had none, the RAM, serial I/O > chipsets, the disk and added second AHA-1742 over the years. I didn't want > to get into cataloging. > > In any event in the paragraphs I did not forward to the list I made > it clear that I was interested in what their products in a business context > and not my personal office. Perhaps as a footnote to messages like this you'd append some sort of statement: "Because of the reliability and execellent compatibility of your hardware i've been happy to recommend it to friends and people i consult for all their PC hardware needs." It's the truth ain't it? I recommend Dell and Gateway hardware to friends and people i consult for all the time. :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 24 18:48:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C397614D53 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:48:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09468; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:48:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <37227472.70163DC4@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:48:34 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wolfram Schneider Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [nickm@t-online.de: WAN Adapters with FreeBSD Driver Support] References: <19990424232718.14407@panke.de.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We appear to have at least one vendor beating down our door asking for a branding program for hardware. I guess I'd better get that web page up and running pretty quick, huh? Wolfram Schneider wrote: > > ----- Forwarded message from Nick Maddicks ----- > Message-ID: <000b01be8d68$cf2e8440$de77fea9@home> > Reply-To: "Nick Maddicks" > To: > Subject: WAN Adapters with FreeBSD Driver Support > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:07:55 +0200 > > Dear Webmaster, > > Many of our customers have expressed the view that while information on > FreeBSD software is relatively easy to find on the Web they still have > very real problems finding information about which hardware is available > with FreeBSD driver support, particularly when it comes to connectivity > products. > > Consequently, we have investigated their claims and indeed concluded that > looking for connectivity (I/O) products is a little like "looking for a > needle in a haystack". In fact we can't help feeling this state of affairs > must act as a deterrent for some prospective FreeBSD users. > > When visiting your site we were delighted, and more than somewhat heartened, > to see that someone was at least trying to provide the help FreeBSD users so > desperately need. > > We therefore ask you to help us to "spread the word" about the commercial > viability of FreeBSD by including links to our main website at > http://www.adcomtec.com and our partner website at http://www.lanmedia.com > or by including our products in your Hardware section. > > For your reference, ADCOMTEC is the combined European Business Center for > LAN Media Corporation (LMC). ADCOMTEC specializes in providing high- > performance, advanced communications and networking solutions for CompactPCI, > PCI, and PMC based applications. FreeBSD driver support is provided for a > range of high-performance adapters providing connectivity Synchronous Serial, > T1/E1, DS3/T3, and HSSI. > [Details of hardware elided for brevity.] Wolfram, we've had a project for something like this hanging around since last November. I'll try to step up the pace a little. Please let your contact know that I'll be in touch with him within a couple of days. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 24 20:41: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6191214A2D for ; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 1883 invoked by alias); 25 Apr 1999 03:41:02 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 1849 invoked by uid 0); 25 Apr 1999 03:41:00 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 1999 03:41:00 -0000 Message-ID: <37228EB9.D491FFF8@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:40:41 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Adrian Filipi-Martin , Nik Clayton , Daniel Hagan , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > "Because of the reliability and execellent compatibility of your hardware > i've been happy to recommend it to friends and people i consult for all > their PC hardware needs." > > It's the truth ain't it? I recommend Dell and Gateway hardware to friends > and people i consult for all the time. Well, if you can provide the additional support that's great, but I need to be absolutely certain that the vendor I buy from is going to be able to do all the tech support. I don't know if it's just that Gateway has themselves prositioned as a consumer vendor, but it's really easy to stump their tech staff. Personally I do almost all of my full-system deals through Dell. They've always gone out of their way to make sure I get the info I request and the answers I need. Their PowerEdge servers need work-- I've yet to get one to work with anything other than NT--but all of the workstations and desktops I've ordered have been a wonderfully smooth installation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 10:28:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw3.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C5F14C0F for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 10:28:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-13-15.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.13.15]) by mail-gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21197 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:28:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19667; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:29:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:29:18 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Slashdot posts the story Message-ID: <19990425122917.E11941@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=X3gaHHMYHkYqP6yf; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --X3gaHHMYHkYqP6yf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally I talked to someone with posting privileges, and he gladly accepted the URL to the story about the Matrix. advocacy.freebsd.org's first publicity? :) The story itself is up right now at http://www.slashdot.org --=20 Chris Costello Your fault, core dumped. --X3gaHHMYHkYqP6yf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBNyNQ7LfyXY/Dmk2NAQExhgL/cxH1jwcXeVa+X+7nXPLKNL0H9YFaHvTI HlaYlsqtOdC/WS2NwRkQQBvijI485Unf7qUhcYgn//OxHyrr6t00NNIQuUYWm0Zp Ntjkbt1kXCeJXhSXTo+ILvzSEPTcCvvW =mkNE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X3gaHHMYHkYqP6yf-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 11:53:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0150014EFF for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:53:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17237; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:11:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:11:19 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: chris@calldei.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot posts the story In-Reply-To: <19990425122917.E11941@holly.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > > Finally I talked to someone with posting privileges, and he > gladly accepted the URL to the story about the Matrix. > > advocacy.freebsd.org's first publicity? :) > > The story itself is up right now at http://www.slashdot.org And already under attack by Linux zealots.... sheesh, can't we have a moment in the sun? :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 15: 2: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8536114BE0 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id HAA22451; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:01:56 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3723905A.DAA2E314@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:59:54 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chris@calldei.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slashdot posts the story References: <19990425122917.E11941@holly.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Costello wrote: > > Finally I talked to someone with posting privileges, and he > gladly accepted the URL to the story about the Matrix. > > advocacy.freebsd.org's first publicity? :) It's a nicely done web page, btw. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 15:17:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79BC14ECA for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA03957; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:35:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: chris@calldei.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot posts the story In-Reply-To: <3723905A.DAA2E314@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Chris Costello wrote: > > > > Finally I talked to someone with posting privileges, and he > > gladly accepted the URL to the story about the Matrix. > > > > advocacy.freebsd.org's first publicity? :) > > It's a nicely done web page, btw. Any chance for a graph of the "slashdot" effect experianced by the advocacy server? (traffic logs) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 15:34:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pokey.local.net (tcs7-16.netwalk.net [206.175.76.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BACAC14BFD for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:33:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmutter@netwalk.com) Received: from insomnia.local.net (insomnia.local.net [192.168.2.3]) by pokey.local.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA33849 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:33:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jmutter@insomnia.local.net) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:36:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "James A. Mutter" Reply-To: jmutter@netwalk.com To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Slashdot responses. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been reading the discussion in response to the posting of the Matrix article on slashdot. Could someone with the correct information reply to this one? I saw the marketshare figures for the last three years. Each year FreeBSD has declined in marketshare. Only NT and Linux have shown growth. Overall, FreeBSD continues to be in freefall as other platforms and systems continue to eat away at what little marketshare freebsd had. The ongoing rise of BeOS may well be the final death knell for FreeBSD. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/04/25/1718226&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=42#128 It's at the bottom of the page. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 16: 1:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD96814C59 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:01:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26747; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904252300.QAA26747@implode.root.com> To: jmutter@netwalk.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot responses. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:36:22 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:00:05 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I've been reading the discussion in response to the posting of the >Matrix article on slashdot. > >Could someone with the correct information reply to this one? I've waded in the Slashdot cesspool before, and I'd rather not do that again. FreeBSD continues to grow at exponential rates. I've seen a variety of figures that show this, not the least of which is cdrom sales numbers. I don't have any evidence to the contrary. Furthermore, download stats for Linux and FreeBSD on wcarchive have both been increasing rapidly, but the recent trend has been that FreeBSD is outpacing Linux. I think this is a valid statistic because wcarchive is the master site for Slackware Linux, and based on stats that people provided for Red Hat 5.1, is also the highest traffic mirror site for Red Hat (more copies of Red Hat are downloaded from wcarchive than from redhat.com plus all of the other mirrors of Red Hat combined). -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 16:46:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw1.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C5F14C94 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:46:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-14-197.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.14.197]) by mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11723 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:46:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00816 for advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:47:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:47:24 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Slashdot Message-ID: <19990425184723.B422@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU"; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While I find Slashdot to be quite a popular "technical" news source, I believe my efforts in getting the Matrix article on Slashdot were badly misplaced, given the comments to the Matrix article. Now I believe I'll try to focus my efforts on getting some real press, like everybody else is doing. :) --=20 Chris Costello Netnews is like yelling, "Anyone want to buy a used car?" in a crowded thea= ter. --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBNyOpirfyXY/Dmk2NAQGjeQMAtQOox+xZ4KbRA1r7NCKnpAvD+OPPkTIs Zd946JjA19H3lCbe6juEasUKs4Yp7YlDFS7yDFHTkRD19ffdrwOWFSDBnWbPWdOX 3+MMDC5a0wB4WSNKBYN8TlYhZb/plwsY =eQa9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bn2rw/3z4jIqBvZU-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 17: 1:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE7614C2D for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:01:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 397C02EE1A; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1688 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990425184723.B422@holly.dyndns.org> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:01:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: chris@calldei.com Subject: RE: Slashdot Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Chris Costello wrote: >=20 > While I find Slashdot to be quite a popular "technical" news > source, I believe my efforts in getting the Matrix article on > Slashdot were badly misplaced, given the comments to the Matrix > article. >=20 > Now I believe I'll try to focus my efforts on getting some > real press, like everybody else is doing. :) >=20 From what I have seen: Slashdot =3D Linux Kids =3D Penquin =3D Bedroom computing FreeBSD =3D Adults =3D Daemon =3D Real world Computing Its like trying to convince a gorilla that your 1 bananna is equal to his = 2 bannnas. Nicole > --=20 > Chris Costello > Netnews is like yelling, "Anyone want to buy a used car?" in a crowded > theater. |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly,=20 cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to have a lif= e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 17: 1:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DF414C2D for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:01:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA58784; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: jmutter@netwalk.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot responses. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:36:22 EDT." Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:01:10 -0700 Message-ID: <58782.925084870@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've been reading the discussion in response to the posting of the > Matrix article on slashdot. > > Could someone with the correct information reply to this one? > > I saw the marketshare figures for the last three years. Each year > FreeBSD has declined in marketshare. Only NT and Linux have shown This just plain FUD of the type you often see on slashdot in response to things (and, to be fair, it's not confined to FreeBSD articles; it seems FUDDing is a fairly common practice when you allow people to post as "Anonymous Coward" :-). Note, for example, that no direct reference is made to *which* "marketing figures" were used for the last 3 years. To the best of my knowledge, no definitive marketing figures have been available at any time in FreeBSD's history and the figures I see often quoted for Linux don't match any definition of "definitive" I've ever seen. You can count web hits or USENET articles, you can attempt to count registered noses, and you can extrapolate from CD sales and/or download statistics, but none of this means that the number you come up with will be in any way accurate. This is why most sensible people stay away from trying to provide accurate "marketshare figures" (or, worse, blindly believing someone else's) since maybe all you're measuring is how buggy a piece of software is (more bugs = more discussion = more web hits / USENET question-and-complaint threads) or how much contraversy surrounds it. And even once you've counted noses, who's to say that the number hasn't quietly doubled in the interim or that half the noses you last counted has since defected to another OS solution? "Lies and damn lies" doesn't even begin to describe the process of collecting Internet marketing data. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 17: 2:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A326C14C2D for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:02:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02193; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:19:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:19:33 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: chris@calldei.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot In-Reply-To: <19990425184723.B422@holly.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > > While I find Slashdot to be quite a popular "technical" news > source, I believe my efforts in getting the Matrix article on > Slashdot were badly misplaced, given the comments to the Matrix > article. > > Now I believe I'll try to focus my efforts on getting some > real press, like everybody else is doing. :) > except the one raving Fbsd "advocate" i think it went pretty well. check the almost last comment. :) "As a result of getting lashed out at as a result of my OpenBSD observations, I'm downloading the lastest stable FreeBSD. (3.1) and am going to try it out. " (the linux VS minix flame was mine) the FUD dispelling answers to the Linux fanatics were very well worded, as long as people are civil when defending FreeBSD, it looks pretty good. I just spent 20 minutes working with one of the pro-linux posters doing a FreeBSD install over IRC... :) Don't get discouraged. This went very well from my point of view. At least 2 new people giving FreeBSD a "shot". -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 17:20:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8113514C2D for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:20:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@001101.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id RAA65695; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:20:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:20:12 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Nicole Harrington Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot Message-ID: <19990425172012.H45524@001101.zer0.org> References: <19990425184723.B422@holly.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicole Harrington on Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 05:01:30PM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 05:01:30PM -0700, Nicole Harrington wrote: > > From what I have seen: > > Slashdot = Linux Kids = Penquin = Bedroom computing > FreeBSD = Adults = Daemon = Real world Computing Linux is usable for real world computing... it's just not _as_ usable as FreeBSD. What you're seeing on /. is the result of the Linux population explosion, and doesn't represent all Linux users any more than AOL represents all Internet users. They're just (generally) the loudest and least clueful. It's too bad. /. should consider disabling "Anonymous Coward" postings; that would result in a lot less FUD and probably a good deal more cluefulness, at the expense of voluminous numbers of A.C. postings that generally don't have much to say anyway. > Its like trying to convince a gorilla that your 1 bananna is equal to > his 2 bannnas. What? Banana? Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Was Jimi's modem a Purple Hayes? mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 17:39:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blues.ghis.net (slwag1p20.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 648B914D12 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@blues.ghis.net) Received: (from jim@localhost) by blues.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA32910; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:39:21 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:39:20 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot posts the story Message-ID: <19990426103919.A32727@blues.ghis.net> Reply-To: jim@blues.ghis.net References: <3723905A.DAA2E314@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Cc list trimmed since you guys are on the list] On Sun, 25 Apr 1999 at 17:35:27 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > Chris Costello wrote: > > > > > > Finally I talked to someone with posting privileges, and he > > > gladly accepted the URL to the story about the Matrix. > > > > > > advocacy.freebsd.org's first publicity? :) > > > > It's a nicely done web page, btw. > > Any chance for a graph of the "slashdot" effect experianced > by the advocacy server? (traffic logs) I've got plans to install analog and make it public (like the stats for freefall are http://www.freebsd.org/statistic/freefall.html) I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Should be installed within the next few days. -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@blues.ghis.net ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Global Hosting Inet Svcs http://www.ghis.net/ / \ The personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 17:44:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (mail1.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59ECF14D12 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-65-135.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.65.135]) by mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24001 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA29261 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:44:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Debian Touts Integrated SGML Environment Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:44:25 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At least that's the title of a page on the Debian website, dated Mar 30, 99. The SGML support for Debian is very similar to the toolset used by FreeBSD. Obviously they believe this support to be a feature advantage. Perhaps we should too? Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 20:33:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.cian.net (tnt-3-162.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ADB114C2D for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from ukonline.co.uk (localhost.cian.net [127.0.0.1]) by wolf.cian.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA01482 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:35:22 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Message-ID: <3723DEFA.56CEBC7@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:35:22 +0100 From: gurab Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------402DCF11DEB5662A7D55691D" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------402DCF11DEB5662A7D55691D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My little blow for the cause :-) http://www.hopkinsfbi.com/ Cheers, Chris R. -- A computer is for life, not just for Christmas http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty --------------402DCF11DEB5662A7D55691D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: c.raven@ukonline.co.uk Received: (qmail 95982 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1999 02:55:17 -0000 Received: from smtp4.site1.csi.com (HELO NIH2WAAD) (149.174.183.73) by wookey.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 1999 02:55:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:55:13 -0400 Sender: jChristophe@csi.com Received: from jc (Meaux-1-188.club-internet.fr [195.36.139.188]) by dub-img-ims-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.7) with SMTP id WAA22110 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00be01be8f8c$86911100$0200a8c0@jc> Reply-To: "Christophe" From: "Christophe" To: "gurab" Subject: Re: Hopkins FBI Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 03:46:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the infos... we will fix that :) -----Message d'origine----- De : gurab À : christophe@hopkinsfbi.com Date : vendredi 23 avril 1999 18:01 Objet : Hopkins FBI >Hi, > >Hopkins works on FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ - I have run the demo >with no problems. > >Why not mention it in your pages? Add a link and the cute little Daemon >image too? > >Hopkins is a great game - let the *few* million BSD users know about it >working. Let >http://www.daemonnews.org/ know too, they can tell the world! > > >Cheers! > > >P.S. I'm gonna buy your game and, I use FreeBSD > >:-) > > > > > > >-- >A computer is for life, not just for Christmas >http://www.freebsd.org/ >FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty > --------------402DCF11DEB5662A7D55691D-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Apr 25 23: 9:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 028B114F5C for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id PAA16598; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:09:06 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3723B404.CE8CBE3E@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:32:04 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: chris@calldei.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Don't get discouraged. This went very well from my point of view. > > At least 2 new people giving FreeBSD a "shot". If freebsd-bugs is any indicator, the last time something about FreeBSD was posted there was, indeed, a surge of new installations (which may or may not become convertions). I think this will have good results. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 7: 6: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pcayk.ukc.ac.uk (pcayk.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.41.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA8A0151A9 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dlombardo@excite.com) Received: from excite.com (xtsw12c.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.41.85]) by pcayk.ukc.ac.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA89038 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:08:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dlombardo@excite.com) Message-ID: <372473C6.DA4EA120@excite.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:10:14 +0100 From: Dean Lombardo Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Encanto Networks chooses FreeBSD over Linux References: <01e701be8f7f$3ad97160$0d787880@apex.tapang> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just found the URL: http://www.investors.com/web_edition/today/viewcomptech.html It asks for a user name and password, but guest/guest seems to work... :-) Dean "Carlos C. Tapang" wrote: > Subject: Encanto Networks chooses FreeBSD over Linux > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:53:41 -0700 > From: "Carlos C. Tapang" > To: , > > Just came across an interesting article in Investor's Business Daily (April > 26th issue) in the Computers and Technology section. The title is "Windows > Foes Pose A Threat: Ex-Novell CEO". In it Bob Frankenberg cites the reason > why his company chose FreeBSD over Linux: they did a very careful evaluation > and "found that there was a 2-1 or 3-1 improvement over Linux". "... A lot > of work had been done to maximize transaction-processing performance." But > "Linux, on the other hand, performs better for individual use" because of > "better network performance". > > Hmm, are we finally getting good press coverage? I am sure this did not > happen by accident. There must be an effort going on to get this kind of > press coverage. Good job, guys. > > Carlos C. Tapang > http://www.genericwindows.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 10:11:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5E81514A for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1CC522EE1A; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 7780 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <372473C6.DA4EA120@excite.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:11:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Encanto Networks chooses FreeBSD over Linux Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Dean Lombardo wrote: >=20 > Just found the URL: >=20 > http://www.investors.com/web_edition/today/viewcomptech.html >=20 > It asks for a user name and password, but guest/guest seems to work... >:-) >=20 Below =3D full text version for lazy folks like myself ;> Pretty cool! Nicole ------------------- Windows Foes Pose A Threat: Ex-Novell CEO=20 Date: 4/26/99=20 Author: Michael Tarsala=20 Bob Frankenberg is a pretty good authority when it comes to alternatives to Microsoft Corp. operating systems.=20 As chief executive of Microsoft rival Novell Inc., Frankenberg did battle w= ith Bill Gates, his well-known counterpart at the software titan. In the early 1990s, Frankenberg peddled an alternative to Microsoft's DOS operating software ca= lled DR DOS, which was dropped in 1995. Orem, Utah-based Novell still dukes it o= ut with Microsoft for other types of operating software sales to large busines= ses.=20 In 1997, Frankenberg moved on to the chief executive slot at privately held Encanto Networks Inc. in Santa Clara, Calif. The start-up offers electronic-commerce services and software for small businesses, as well as computers that don't= use Microsoft's operating software.=20 Frankenberg says Microsoft faces a new and serious challenge from two varia= nts of the Unix operating system. One is Linux, and the other is similar softwa= re called FreeBSD. Both can be found on the Web for little to no cost.=20 Encanto recently adopted FreeBSD for its machines. He says other companies could soon join suit. He spoke with Investor's Business Daily recently abou= t the threats Linux and FreeBSD pose to Microsoft.=20 IBD:=20 Linux is now the fastest-growing server operating system. Why did you choos= e relatively unknown FreeBSD?=20 Frankenberg:=20 We did a very careful evaluation. The reason we went with FreeBSD is that a= lot of work had been done to maximize transaction-processing performance. This = can improve the speed of accessing Web pages. We found there was a 2- 1 or 3-1 improvement over Linux.=20 Linux, on the other hand, performs better for individual use. In general, i= f I'm a user of a desktop computer - instead of a network user - I'll get a faster response time on Linux than FreeBSD. We needed better network performance.=20 IBD:=20 Why are so-called ''open-source'' Unix operating systems a hot technology topic?=20 Frankenberg:=20 The open-source movement is a very healthy one. It's a response to the kind= of dominance Microsoft has had.=20 IBD:=20 Why would a customer use open-source Unix instead of a Microsoft operating system?=20 Frankenberg:=20 At the low end, Microsoft will be making an announcement soon about embedde= d NT (Windows operating systems for small and hand-held computers). But at the l= ow end, the cost of the NT license and how much memory and disk pace) it consu= mes add dramatically to the cost of the system. Our computers are not using NT = for those reasons.=20 IBD:=20 Is the growth of open-source Unix surprising?=20 Frankenberg:=20 It's not surprising. One of things we see is Linux as a replacement for NT = on the desktop. The underpinnings are aimed at doing that. Both Linux and Free= BSD are more reliable than Windows NT. Our customers don't care about the operating system. Operating systems are inherently ugly and complicated. That's why w= e hide them. We did work to make sure end users wouldn't have to worry about an operating system.=20 IBD:=20 How can open-source Unix change Microsoft's business?=20 Frankenberg:=20 It will force Microsoft to continue to innovate, and I think that's healthy= . In recent years, Microsoft has done little to improve its operating systems. Microsoft hasn't had to do anything but collect checks.=20 You may recall from the depths of ancient history that Novell old) DR DOS. = It eventually lost to Microsoft's DOS. But one thing DR DOS did was keep Micro= soft honest. It forced them to continue to innovate DOS and Windows.=20 IBD:=20 Microsoft would take issue with you stating the company hasn't upgraded its operating systems.=20 Frankenberg:=20 Announcements are one thing. Delivering innovations are another. Can you te= ll me the advantage and innovation in Windows 98 over Windows 95?=20 IBD:=20 How much can open-source Unix erode Microsoft's market share?=20 Frankenberg:=20 If Linux and FreeBSD together got 5% share, it would be an incredible accomplishment. Microsoft thinks any share to anybody is unacceptable. It w= ould be great if the little guys got a little bit of share.=20 But it wouldn't harm Microsoft hardly at all, given how fast the market is growing. There's incredible momentum behind the Microsoft solutions. It's n= ot the benefits of the Microsoft operating system, but what's written to run on them. Do a comparison of what runs on Windows and what runs on Unix of any kind. There= 's so much more for Microsoft. The comparison is so lopsided that it's almost hard to measure.=20 IBD:=20 How has support from IBM Corp. and other hardware makers helped Linux gain acceptance?=20 Frankenberg:=20 I think there's a difference in making it available as an option and making= it your mainstream operating system. That's not to belittle what's happened. T= he next hurdle open operating systems have in becoming mainstream is getting more software bundled with the operating system and more software packages that rival the ones that are available on Windows.=20 > Dean >=20 >=20 > "Carlos C. Tapang" wrote: >=20 >> Subject: Encanto Networks chooses FreeBSD over Linux >> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:53:41 -0700 >> From: "Carlos C. Tapang" >> To: , >>=20 >> Just came across an interesting article in Investor's Business Daily (Ap= ril >> 26th issue) in the Computers and Technology section. The title is "Windo= ws >> Foes Pose A Threat: Ex-Novell CEO". In it Bob Frankenberg cites the reas= on >> why his company chose FreeBSD over Linux: they did a very careful evalua= tion >> and "found that there was a 2-1 or 3-1 improvement over Linux". "... A l= ot >> of work had been done to maximize transaction-processing performance." B= ut >> "Linux, on the other hand, performs better for individual use" because o= f >> "better network performance". >>=20 >> Hmm, are we finally getting good press coverage? I am sure this did not >> happen by accident. There must be an effort going on to get this kind of >> press coverage. Good job, guys. >>=20 >> Carlos C. Tapang >> http://www.genericwindows.com >>=20 >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly, cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to = have a life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 10:13: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10BE15162 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:13:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 818552EE1A; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1252 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3723DEFA.56CEBC7@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:13:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: gurab Subject: RE: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] Cc: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That gurab wrote: > My little blow for the cause :-) >=20 >=20 > http://www.hopkinsfbi.com/ >=20 >=20 Besides teaching violence to children, this help how? Nicole > Cheers, > Chris R. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > A computer is for life, not just for Christmas > http://www.freebsd.org/ > FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- SYSADMIN(1) Sysadmin is the keeper of all things computer, is generally harangued, must= be=20 supplied with caffeine, chocolate, and sushi in order to function=20 properly, cannot be exposed to direct sunlight, and must not be allowed to = have a life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 11:50:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A50015277 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:50:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11380; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:08:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:08:23 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Nicole Harrington Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Encanto Networks chooses FreeBSD over Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Nicole Harrington wrote: > > On 26-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Dean Lombardo wrote: > > > > Just found the URL: > > > > http://www.investors.com/web_edition/today/viewcomptech.html > > > > It asks for a user name and password, but guest/guest seems to work... > >:-) > > > > Below = full text version for lazy folks like myself ;> > Pretty cool! > Nicole Trying... hard.... not... to post to.... slashdot..... unnnnnngh..... :) actually, any PR meisters, (*cough* Jordan) want to see if they can get this story reposted or put on slashdot? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 12: 2:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76831532E for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id MAA04639; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id MAA16015; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:01:56 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA11166; Mon, 26 Apr 99 12:01:54 PDT Message-Id: <3724B820.AA52D273@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:01:52 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Nicole Harrington , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Encanto Networks chooses FreeBSD over Linux References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Nicole Harrington wrote: > > > > > On 26-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Dean Lombardo wrote: > > > > > > Just found the URL: > > > > > > http://www.investors.com/web_edition/today/viewcomptech.html > > > > > > It asks for a user name and password, but guest/guest seems to work... > > >:-) > > > > > > > Below = full text version for lazy folks like myself ;> > > Pretty cool! > > Nicole > > Trying... hard.... not... to post to.... slashdot..... > > unnnnnngh..... > > :) ;^) > actually, any PR meisters, (*cough* Jordan) want to see if they can > get this story reposted or put on slashdot? Keep in mind that while this was a really good article, Mr. Frankenberg can often be a challenging ally. He made a lot of curious moves, and a lot of enemies in the press, at Novell. Come to think of it, maybe he *belongs* with us. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 12: 6:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.cian.net (tnt-1-242.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A790A1531D for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:05:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from ukonline.co.uk (localhost.cian.net [127.0.0.1]) by wolf.cian.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA01179; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:06:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Message-ID: <3724B945.1A2ED6BE@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:06:45 +0100 From: gurab Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicole Harrington Cc: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You assume children play this type of game? I'd say you were very much mistaken, this type of game is aimed at a (very) late teen - early twenties (and upwards) age group and that for sure is not kids. Also, to make so bold a leap and in the face of most current scientific opinion on these matters is itself somewhat naive. By that I mean blaming *violent* games for unbalanced children. When my parents were growing up (circa. 1940's) children played at war, they even got to see its effect at first hand (mangled humans in reality) are you suggesting that all our parents grew up warped because of their wartime experiences in childhood? Whilst I appreciate your sentiments are well meaning - if somewhat misplaced that does not give you the right to keep FreeBSD as a platform within the confines of your own intend usage. I bet you would be against ID software associating with FreeBSD on the grounds that its games too are to say the least _SOMEWHAT_VIOLENT_ ? Its the moral minority that screws up children's heads IMHO not computer software. If the parents aren't interested / able to raise their own children to be productive and well minded young adults, then that is their (and subsequently society's) problem. A bad workman will always blame his tools. Discussion at an end. CR Nicole Harrington wrote: > > On 26-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That gurab wrote: > > My little blow for the cause :-) > > > > > > http://www.hopkinsfbi.com/ > > > > > > Besides teaching violence to children, this help how? > > Nicole > > > Cheers, > > Chris R. > > > > > > -- -- A computer is for life, not just for Christmas http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 12: 8:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B24D1536D for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:07:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA76844; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:54:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:54:53 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Debian Touts Integrated SGML Environment Message-ID: <19990426195453.A75845@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net>; from W Gerald Hicks on Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 08:44:25PM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 08:44:25PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > At least that's the title of a page on the Debian website, dated Mar 30, 99. Got a URL? > The SGML support for Debian is very similar to the toolset used by FreeBSD. > > Obviously they believe this support to be a feature advantage. Perhaps we > should too? It's practically identical. The main difference is that we don't use a package called SGMLTools yet (http://www.sgmltools.org/). Why don't we? Largely because SGMLTools is two things; 1. A mechanism to ensure that the correct applications are installed on the OS. We have the ports mechanism for that, and in particular, the textproc/docproj port. 2. A series of scripts, written in Python, that hide the command line options to jade(1) and friends, with commands like db2html to convert DocBook to HTML. For the current needs of the FreeBSD Doc. Proj., see doc/share/mk/docproj.docbook.mk. I haven't looked at porting SGMLTools (or at least the (2) part of it) to FreeBSD, mainly because I don't have the time to learn another language (Python). Theres an SGMLTools mailing list, which I subscribe to, sgml-tools@via.ecp.fr. More FreeBSD'ers welcome. If anyone wants to port SGMLTools as well they should go ahead. I don't know how difficult it is to disentangle (1) from (2) above, so it might be tricky to get it working with our ports collection. As a general note; while the db2html scripts and such like might be quite useful to the absolute novice, I don't see the Doc. Proj. using them when converting the DocBook documents to other formats. This is partly because the mechanism we have at the moment works nicely, and follows the BSD tradition. It's also because I don't want to add yet another program (Python) that people need to have installed before they think they can useful contribute documentation. N -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 13:49:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6CFF15397 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:49:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id NAA06207; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id NAA20634; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:49:17 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA16156; Mon, 26 Apr 99 13:49:14 PDT Message-Id: <3724D149.7DEDD047@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:49:13 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: gurab Cc: Nicole Harrington , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] References: <3724B945.1A2ED6BE@ukonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG gurab wrote: > > You assume children play this type of game? > > I'd say you were very much mistaken, this type of game is aimed at a > (very) late teen - early twenties (and upwards) age group and that for > sure is not kids. Only someone still a child himself would make this assumption. > Also, to make so bold a leap and in the face of most current scientific > opinion on these matters is itself somewhat naive. By that I mean > blaming *violent* games for unbalanced children. And this wonderful scientific opinion has produced the utopia we now live in. Gee, that's a comforting thought. > Its the moral minority that screws up children's heads IMHO not computer > software. If the parents aren't interested / able to raise their own > children to be productive and well minded young adults, then that is > their (and subsequently society's) problem. A bad workman will always > blame his tools. It is the lack of shame and limits in our society that screws up everyone associated with it, not just the children. Your failure to understand this just reiterates your skewed viewpoint, the result of decaces of unfortunate social engineering. That doesn't mean FreeBSD should be not explored as a gaming platform, however. How 'bout a nice sailing simulator? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 13:54:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01D914FD6 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:54:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id NAA06275; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id NAA20858; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:53:19 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA16386; Mon, 26 Apr 99 13:53:17 PDT Message-Id: <3724D23B.1D611284@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:53:15 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Debian Touts Integrated SGML Environment References: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net> <19990426195453.A75845@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 08:44:25PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > At least that's the title of a page on the Debian website, dated Mar 30, 99. > > Got a URL? http://www.debian.org/News/1999/19990330 It only took two clicks to find it, not a difficult search. > As a general note; while the db2html scripts and such like might be quite > useful to the absolute novice, I don't see the Doc. Proj. using them when > converting the DocBook documents to other formats. > > This is partly because the mechanism we have at the moment works nicely, > and follows the BSD tradition. It's also because I don't want to add yet > another program (Python) that people need to have installed before they > think they can useful contribute documentation. And your tool is? Make, I assume? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 14:28: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.cian.net (tnt-6-206.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E8A1547F for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from ukonline.co.uk (localhost.cian.net [127.0.0.1]) by wolf.cian.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA01471; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:27:30 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Message-ID: <3724DA42.99A26EFF@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:27:30 +0100 From: gurab Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: Nicole Harrington , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] References: <3724B945.1A2ED6BE@ukonline.co.uk> <3724D149.7DEDD047@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > gurab wrote: > > > > You assume children play this type of game? > > > > I'd say you were very much mistaken, this type of game is aimed at a > > (very) late teen - early twenties (and upwards) age group and that for > > sure is not kids. > > Only someone still a child himself would make this assumption. Without feeling the need myself to descend into name calling (perhaps a reflection on MY own maturity) I would point out that the game in question is not an action or arcade game, but in fact a thinking, puzzle type game. As such it would tend to lean toward an adult (or at least more mature young mind) audience - IMHO. So ok, its made in a *slightly* OTT manner, but so what? A balanced mind has no problems with that. However, not having your deep and educated insight into such matters I will bow to such vastly superior knowledge as you are attempting to display. > > > Also, to make so bold a leap and in the face of most current scientific > > opinion on these matters is itself somewhat naive. By that I mean > > blaming *violent* games for unbalanced children. > > And this wonderful scientific opinion has produced the utopia we now > live in. Gee, that's a comforting thought. > Indeed, my own sentiments exactly. However, seeing such *modern* child raising practices in action around me every day and, on the whole, with not inconsiderable success (fancy not even hitting your own children - my, my, what is the world coming to?) I would say that you only get out of interpersonal relationships that which you put into them. > > Its the moral minority that screws up children's heads IMHO not computer > > software. If the parents aren't interested / able to raise their own > > children to be productive and well minded young adults, then that is > > their (and subsequently society's) problem. A bad workman will always > > blame his tools. > > It is the lack of shame and limits in our society that screws up everyone > associated with it, not just the children. Your failure to understand > this just reiterates your skewed viewpoint, the result of decaces of > unfortunate social engineering. > On the contrary, I feel myself to have a very open mind on these subjects, something which you appear not to have. Problems in society source from many avenues and to pinpoint one exactly is somewhat foolish. By highlighting the failings of parents in the raising of their children, I cover quite a few bases. I will admit that there are other and significant sources of social decay - but as this is not a social science forum I would suggest we terminate the discussion here. > That doesn't mean FreeBSD should be not explored as a gaming platform, > however. How 'bout a nice sailing simulator? > This discussion was never about gaming on FreeBSD, who ever said it was? -- A computer is for life, not just for Christmas http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 14:58:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1833015428 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:58:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA61827; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:57:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nicole Harrington Cc: gurab , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:13:02 PDT." Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:57:31 -0700 Message-ID: <61825.925163851@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > My little blow for the cause :-) > > > > > > http://www.hopkinsfbi.com/ > > > > > > Besides teaching violence to children, this help how? The idea behind this reference was to point out a fairly complex game for Linux which also runs on FreeBSD, that's how I saw it. As to the subject material of the game itself, that's totally irrelevant here and if I see a long thread of self-appointed Tipper Gores coming out of the woodwork to say "horrors!" then rest assured that I'm going to loudly and publically paddle all your asses for deeply and significantly missing the point. We're not here to judge anyone's game or porno site or mexican snuff film distributorship which is based on FreeBSD. That's neither our job nor our place and we had this discussion already some years ago when Persian Kitty first asked for a link on our FreeBSD Gallery page. We're here to evangelise any significant deployment of or application for FreeBSD and that's the bottom line. If you want to discuss the Greater Morality of something you see here, on the other hand, then go on Oprah. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 14:59:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC8715303 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA61845; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:59:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Wes Peters Cc: gurab , Nicole Harrington , "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:49:13 MDT." <3724D149.7DEDD047@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:59:07 -0700 Message-ID: <61843.925163947@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > That doesn't mean FreeBSD should be not explored as a gaming platform, > however. How 'bout a nice sailing simulator? Then write one. Until then, let's save the "we must think of the children!" claptrap for another mailing list. It's really not the direction we want to be going in with this discussion and it's a waste of time IN THIS FORUM. I'm sure there are plenty of newsgroups and other places more than adequately devoted to this discussion and it should be held there, not here. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 17:28:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (mail0.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C50153D1 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:28:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-66-44.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.66.44]) by mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14929; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wghicks (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA33762; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:29:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) Message-Id: <199904270029.UAA33762@bellsouth.net> To: Nik Clayton Cc: W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Debian Touts Integrated SGML Environment In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:54:53 BST." <19990426195453.A75845@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:29:05 -0400 From: W Gerald Hicks Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > At least that's the title of a page on the Debian website, dated Mar 30, 99. > > Got a URL? Yikes! forgot to send it: http://www.debian.org/News/1999/19990330 Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 18:12: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E01715376 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:11:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA28377; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:41:44 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA49865; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:41:42 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:41:42 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters Cc: Nik Clayton , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Debian Touts Integrated SGML Environment Message-ID: <19990427104142.S46511@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net> <19990426195453.A75845@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <3724D23B.1D611284@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3724D23B.1D611284@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 02:53:15PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 26 April 1999 at 14:53:15 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: >> >> On Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 08:44:25PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: >>> At least that's the title of a page on the Debian website, dated Mar 30, 99. >> >> Got a URL? > > http://www.debian.org/News/1999/19990330 > > It only took two clicks to find it, not a difficult search. There's no reason to need a search at all. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 23:25:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3871501E for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A6B3B2EE1A; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1093 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:25:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Security Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is a cool mailing list called the Sans Security Mailing that is kind= of like a condensed bugtrack and cert mailing. I rather liked one entry it contained in it's listing of security bugs for all OS's. --------------- FreeBSD: No FreeBSD security reports have been released since 11/04/1998.=20 --------------- Not many os's could claim that. The SANS Institute www.sans.com I belive. Nicole |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 26 23:59: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7668714FC4 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:59:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.128]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990427070056.XPFP6531620.mta2-rme@wocker>; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:00:56 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Nicole Harrington Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:58:58 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990427070056.XPFP6531620.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26 Apr 99, at 23:25, Nicole Harrington wrote: > > There is a cool mailing list called the Sans Security Mailing that is > kindof > like a condensed bugtrack and cert mailing. I rather liked one entry it > contained in it's listing of security bugs for all OS's. > > --------------- > FreeBSD: > No FreeBSD security reports have been released since 11/04/1998. > --------------- > > Not many os's could claim that. Grin. Pretty good. But it brought to mind something about a CEO comparing Mac and Windows. He claimed that Mac must have lots of bugs in it because bug fixes were issued "all the time" but Windows must have no bugs because they hardly ever issue any bug fixes. -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 6:31:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8186214E34 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:31:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-069.thuntek.net [207.66.52.69]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA02615; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:30:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3725BBC4.EB379851@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:29:40 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chris@calldei.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot posts the story References: <19990425122917.E11941@holly.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mmmm... interesting. It's definitely a 'who you know' situation. I posted the same link to their website last Friday, and got nothing from them. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 6:32:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F2015381 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:32:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-069.thuntek.net [207.66.52.69]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA02733; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:32:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3725BC23.F05BCEEB@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:31:15 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: chris@calldei.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot posts the story References: <19990425122917.E11941@holly.dyndns.org> <3723905A.DAA2E314@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > Chris Costello wrote: > > > > Finally I talked to someone with posting privileges, and he > > gladly accepted the URL to the story about the Matrix. > > > > advocacy.freebsd.org's first publicity? :) > > It's a nicely done web page, btw. > Thank Jim Mock for re-styling my plain HTML to fit our Advocacy theme. It's on our new advocacy.freebsd.org site. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 6:35:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA43153E9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id JAA03916; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xman02999; Tue, 27 Apr 99 09:34:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:34:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 In-reply-to: <199904231824.LAA25659@usr02.primenet.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: paul@originative.co.uk, dhagan@cs.vt.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK, I don't think we need to beat people up for a simple, innocent mistake that was made during an advocacy effort. This tends to discourage the person being criticized, and doesn't help the situation in any case. The fact of the matter is, someone took the time to try to help the cause in which we're all interested. Might I suggest that those of you who have experience and strong opinions about how advocacy efforts should be conducted (at least initially) put together some sort of FAQ or list of steps to take with DOs and DONTs? SB On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > If people are going to send things like this to Gateway (or anyone else) > > please don't CC it to the advocacy group. It totally negates any positive > > advocacy you might achieve. > > In particular, there are two glaring problems: > > 1) Exposure of the list address makes it look insincere, > and instead a result of an organized campaign, even if, > as in this case, it wasn't. > > 2) Exposure of the intended recipient to follow-up replies > having to do with meta discussions or corrections and > contradictions by others who do not note the recipient > is included. Again, this makes it look insincere, but > worse, it weakens the message considerably, since not > only is it apparently an organized effort, it is also > apparently an amatuerish and poorly organized effort, > if the externally visable front they present is not > united. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 7:17:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6B314E34 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:17:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-069.thuntek.net [207.66.52.69]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id IAA08986 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:17:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3725C6A7.AEA31B52@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:16:07 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: news release Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's a very positive news release on http://www.prnewswire.com (unfortunately there's no direct URI, just search their tech section on 'FreeBSD') about SoftNet and Inktomi teaming up to provide "freebsd-based" caching solutions to cable-modem ISP's. Is anybody on the inside at Inktomi or SoftNet who can give me some meat for a PR? Now's the time, it's hot! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 7:42:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6358C1545D for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:41:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:40:36 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk ([10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id JR5C7P1L; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:33:46 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10c965-000Bxs-00; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:44:29 +0100 To: Donald Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: news release X-Mailer: nmh-1.0 X-Colour: Green Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane In-Reply-To: Donald Wilde's message of "Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:16:07 MDT" <3725C6A7.AEA31B52@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:44:29 +0100 From: Dom Mitchell Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27 April 1999, Donald Wilde proclaimed: > There's a very positive news release on http://www.prnewswire.com > (unfortunately there's no direct URI, just search their tech section on > 'FreeBSD') about SoftNet and Inktomi teaming up to provide > "freebsd-based" caching solutions to cable-modem ISP's. Try: -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Value of 2 may go down as well as up" -- FORTRAN programmers manual -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 8:19:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.cian.net (tnt-2-109.easynet.co.uk [195.40.196.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D585614DC0 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:19:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from ukonline.co.uk (localhost.cian.net [127.0.0.1]) by wolf.cian.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA01730 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:20:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Message-ID: <3725D5CB.BC2CFD42@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:20:43 +0100 From: gurab Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/ Has anyone seen this before? It seems to be a GNU Direct-X type project. It's what Hopkins FBI uses to run. FreeBSD isn't listed as supported - maybe it should be? Linux certainly is. Comments? Chris R. -- A computer is for life, not just for Christmas http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 8:36:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81B60151A1 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:36:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23045; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:54:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:54:35 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dan Langille Cc: Nicole Harrington , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security In-Reply-To: <19990427070056.XPFP6531620.mta2-rme@wocker> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dan Langille wrote: > On 26 Apr 99, at 23:25, Nicole Harrington wrote: > > > > > There is a cool mailing list called the Sans Security Mailing that is > > kindof > > like a condensed bugtrack and cert mailing. I rather liked one entry it > > contained in it's listing of security bugs for all OS's. > > > > --------------- > > FreeBSD: > > No FreeBSD security reports have been released since 11/04/1998. > > --------------- > > > > Not many os's could claim that. > > Grin. Pretty good. > > But it brought to mind something about a CEO comparing Mac and Windows. > He claimed that Mac must have lots of bugs in it because bug fixes were > issued "all the time" but Windows must have no bugs because they hardly > ever issue any bug fixes. Yes but there's a difference, I'm unaware of any major FreeBSD security hole since the /proc hole about 2 years ago that wasn't the fault of a "contributed" program. If you want to see feature improvements and bugfixes look at cvs-all@freebsd.org. *BSD has a decade and a half of work put into it so far, what other OS can really say that? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 8:55:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E68115671 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA06427; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:13:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:13:01 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dom Mitchell Cc: Donald Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: news release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Dom Mitchell wrote: > On 27 April 1999, Donald Wilde proclaimed: > > There's a very positive news release on http://www.prnewswire.com > > (unfortunately there's no direct URI, just search their tech section on > > 'FreeBSD') about SoftNet and Inktomi teaming up to provide > > "freebsd-based" caching solutions to cable-modem ISP's. > > Try: > > I would like to start posting stories like this to slashdot. If anyone has any objections, now is the time to speak, anyone @freebsd.org arguing against will be respected (public or private email). I'm most likely going to post before noon PST unless i see objections. thanks, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 10:46:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EBD215129 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:46:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id WAA99935; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:37:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:37:14 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Wes Peters Cc: Nik Clayton , W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Debian Touts Integrated SGML Environment Message-ID: <19990426223714.A99719@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net> <19990426195453.A75845@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> <3724D23B.1D611284@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3724D23B.1D611284@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 02:53:15PM -0600 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Apr 26, 1999 at 02:53:15PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: > > > > On Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 08:44:25PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > > At least that's the title of a page on the Debian website, dated Mar 30, 99. > > > > Got a URL? > > http://www.debian.org/News/1999/19990330 Cheers. > It only took two clicks to find it, not a difficult search. Good-oh. Next time my modem link's up at the same time as I'm reading mail I'll check things like this first. > > As a general note; while the db2html scripts and such like might be quite > > useful to the absolute novice, I don't see the Doc. Proj. using them when > > converting the DocBook documents to other formats. > > > > This is partly because the mechanism we have at the moment works nicely, > > and follows the BSD tradition. It's also because I don't want to add yet > > another program (Python) that people need to have installed before they > > think they can useful contribute documentation. > > And your tool is? Make, I assume? ;^) Yep. c.f., doc/share/mk/docproj.docbook.mk and doc/en/handbook/Makefile. N -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 10:58:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEBC615129 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id SAA48745; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:55:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:55:45 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Debian Touts Integrated SGML Environment Message-ID: <19990427185545.A48510@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net>; from W Gerald Hicks on Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 08:44:25PM -0400 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 08:44:25PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > At least that's the title of a page on the Debian website, dated Mar 30, 99. > > The SGML support for Debian is very similar to the toolset used by FreeBSD. > > Obviously they believe this support to be a feature advantage. Perhaps we > should too? Does someone on the advocacy team want to tart this up a bit? It's based on the Debian one (because I'm crap at writing PR). N FreeBSD Touts Integrated SGML/XML Environment FreeBSD's Ports system now makes it simple for an SGML/XML developer to download and install all the tools they need to develop SGML/XML documents. By separating these tools from the base system the SGML/XML developer can install and upgrade them at any time, while other users do not have to contend with additional software tacking up valuable disk space. Features include: * James Clark's Jade 1.2.1 and SP suite version 1.3.3, enabling validation and formatting of SGML/XML documents. * ISO SGML entities * The DocBook (v2.4.1, v3.0, v3.1), HTML (all versions), and LinuxDoc DTDs. * Norm Walsh's Modular DocBook Stylesheets, allowing fine control over the appearance of formatting DocBook documents. * Emacs and Xemacs, in conjunction with the PSGML package, provide an industrial-strength SGML editing solution. * The teTeX-beta, in conjunction with the JadeTeX macros makes it possible to convert DocBook documents to DVI, Postscript, and PDF format (with embedded hyperlinks). * Additional SGML aware programs and utilities can be found in the FreeBSD ports system. The FreeBSD Documentation Project is actively migrating from the LinuxDoc DTD to the DocBook DTD, and has been providing feedback to the DocBook maintainers regarding new features and possible implementations for the past year. The FreeBSD Handbook (1.3MB of DocBook source, 580+ pages of printed documentation) has been completely converted to DocBook, and can be found at The FreeBSD Documentation Project is putting together the FreeBSD Documentation Project Primer to make it as painless as possible for newcomers to contribute to the FreeBSD Documentation Set. Much of the information in the primer is appropriate to all SGML/XML users, and is freely available. The primer can be found at For more information about the FreeBSD Documentation Project, please contact the freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list. -- --+==[ Systems Administrator, Year 2000 Test Lab, Lehman Brothers, Inc. ]==+-- --+==[ 1 Broadgate, London, EC2M 7HA 0171-601-0011 x5514 ]==+-- --+==[ Year 2000 Testing: It's about time. . . ]==+-- -- Bagel: The carbohydrate with the hole To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 11:13:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6520014F27 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:13:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-005.thuntek.net [207.66.52.5]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id MAA27312; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3725FDF7.BAAD4DAA@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:12:07 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: W Gerald Hicks , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Debian Touts Integrated SGML Environment References: <199904260044.UAA29261@bellsouth.net> <19990427185545.A48510@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 25, 1999 at 08:44:25PM -0400, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > > > At least that's the title of a page on the Debian website, dated Mar 30, 99. > > > > The SGML support for Debian is very similar to the toolset used by FreeBSD. > > > > Obviously they believe this support to be a feature advantage. Perhaps we > > should too? > > Does someone on the advocacy team want to tart this up a bit? It's > based on the Debian one (because I'm crap at writing PR). > > N > I'll take it off your hands, Nik. I've been thinking about making such for you and I think I have enough time this week to do so. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 13: 7:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1FBA15683 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:07:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A09DF2EE1A; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 2185 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3725C6A7.AEA31B52@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:07:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Donald Wilde Subject: RE: news release Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27-Apr-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Donald Wilde wrote: > There's a very positive news release on http://www.prnewswire.com > (unfortunately there's no direct URI, just search their tech section on > 'FreeBSD') about SoftNet and Inktomi teaming up to provide > "freebsd-based" caching solutions to cable-modem ISP's.=20 >=20 > Is anybody on the inside at Inktomi or SoftNet who can give me some meat > for a PR? Now's the time, it's hot! Hi All Well, now that the NDR is over I can talk about it. I work for ISPchannel who is owned by Softnet. I have been working with Inktomi for abt 2-3 months now on the FreeBSD port. You have Our CTO to tha= nk for getting them to port it to FreeBSD as he is a long time FBSD user. A nice quote from an engineer at Inktomi was " I'm happy you wanted to por= t it to FreeBSD and not Linux. Linux just isn't up to the task yet" The port heavely uses the add on "linux" threads library and requires the kernel to be set to Posix compliance via the posix options, but it is real sweet and will really help to open people up to the power of FreeBSD! I hopefully will be setting up and testing the latest/last beta today. It = will be ready for Prime time real soon. Nicole > --=20 > Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" > Wilde Media > 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 13:26:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D962156D8 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:26:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-165.thuntek.net [207.66.52.165]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id OAA23786; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37261D20.EAD4E659@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:25:04 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicole Harrington Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: news release References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, well, well, and you were just saying to me that your employer wanted you to "check out Linux!" You little Daemon, you, you've been busy! Now, I definitely want those behind-the-scenes tech quotes from you! I sent mail to the people listed on the website, but perhaps you can give me the Inktomi people to talk to directly. This is well worth a press release! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 14:22: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9B815259 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:22:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18995; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd018937; Tue Apr 27 14:22:00 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA09046; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:21:59 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904272121.OAA09046@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] To: c.raven@ukonline.co.uk (gurab) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:21:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nicole@nmhtech.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3724B945.1A2ED6BE@ukonline.co.uk> from "gurab" at Apr 26, 99 08:06:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Also, to make so bold a leap and in the face of most current scientific > opinion on these matters is itself somewhat naive. By that I mean > blaming *violent* games for unbalanced children. Specifically, there are so many situation comedies on TV these days, yet there have not been massive outbreaks of comedy in the streets... I won't even touch the large number of alien containing shows, and the resultant effects on the alien population... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 15:20:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945C615448 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10068; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:20:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd010023; Tue Apr 27 15:20:08 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11836; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:20:02 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199904272220.PAA11836@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD offerings by Gateway 2000 To: seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org (Seth) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:20:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, paul@originative.co.uk, dhagan@cs.vt.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Seth" at Apr 27, 99 09:34:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > OK, I don't think we need to beat people up for a simple, innocent mistake > that was made during an advocacy effort. This tends to discourage the > person being criticized, and doesn't help the situation in any case. The > fact of the matter is, someone took the time to try to help the cause in > which we're all interested. Please note I said "problems", not "screwups". I appreciate advocacy as much as anyone. My posting was intended more as a "minefield ahead" signpost for anyone who might have wanted to take the original poster to task as a reposnse to their posting. > Might I suggest that those of you who have experience and strong opinions > about how advocacy efforts should be conducted (at least initially) put > together some sort of FAQ or list of steps to take with DOs and DONTs? This would be a good idea; I think Don Wilde would be the best source for an "official" project document, and that we'd all be happy to offer input, and submit to the editor's knife... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 15:48:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D214A151A3 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:48:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA19935; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:48:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA24777; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:48:23 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA24357; Tue, 27 Apr 99 15:48:20 PDT Message-Id: <37263EB4.68D5184D@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:48:20 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: gurab , nicole@nmhtech.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Fwd: Hopkins FBI] References: <199904272121.OAA09046@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Also, to make so bold a leap and in the face of most current scientific > > opinion on these matters is itself somewhat naive. By that I mean > > blaming *violent* games for unbalanced children. > > Specifically, there are so many situation comedies on TV these days, > yet there have not been massive outbreaks of comedy in the streets... > > I won't even touch the large number of alien containing shows, and > the resultant effects on the alien population... I dunno, Terry, I understand YOU watched a lot of those alien shows as a child... -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 16: 6:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A14801528F for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id IAA28853; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:06:49 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:47:41 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Standard Splash Screen? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" votes also apply. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 16:15:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6942F156A0 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12583; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:33:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:33:50 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? In-Reply-To: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > votes also apply. :-) Real Hackers don't use splash screens I really like seeing my hardware probed at bootup, perhaps sysinstall should have an easy to notice splash selection dialog. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 16:24: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC9114BE6 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:24:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id IAA00408; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:24:01 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <37264693.D478A848@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:21:55 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > > votes also apply. :-) > > Real Hackers don't use splash screens > > I really like seeing my hardware probed at bootup, perhaps sysinstall > should have an easy to notice splash selection dialog. My idea is a "I want a cool splash screen during boot!" checkbox. Aside from getting a bitmap in the repository for the express purpose of having a cool splash screen, I think the biggest hurdle would be that anything choosen is likely to draw criticism. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 17:16:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39DE14A12 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:16:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA09663; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:46:28 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA20902; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:47:00 +0930 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:47:00 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Donald Wilde Cc: chris@calldei.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot posts the story In-Reply-To: <3725BBC4.EB379851@thuntek.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Donald Wilde wrote: > Mmmm... interesting. It's definitely a 'who you know' situation. I > posted the same link to their website last Friday, and got nothing from > them. Jordan also told me he tried posting this a week or two ago and it didn't show up, as well. *sigh* I don't think this is reason to give up - if we keep on submitting our FreeBSD stories to /. then some of them have to make it through (especially since one of the editors claimed to want more BSD material a few weeks back). Kris ----- The Feynman problem-solving algorithm: 1. Write down the problem 2. Think real hard 3. Write down the solution To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 17:24:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD6E14C1E for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:24:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA09707; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:54:11 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA05645; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:54:39 +0930 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:54:39 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Dan Langille , Nicole Harrington , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > --------------- > > > FreeBSD: > > > No FreeBSD security reports have been released since 11/04/1998. > > > --------------- > > > > > > Not many os's could claim that. > > > > Grin. Pretty good. > > > > But it brought to mind something about a CEO comparing Mac and Windows. > > He claimed that Mac must have lots of bugs in it because bug fixes were > > issued "all the time" but Windows must have no bugs because they hardly > > ever issue any bug fixes. > > Yes but there's a difference, I'm unaware of any major FreeBSD security > hole since the /proc hole about 2 years ago that wasn't the fault of > a "contributed" program. To be fair, there have been security problems since that date (including some publicized ones). Just after 3.0-REL there was a TCP bug capable of hanging the machine remotely, and earlier this year there was a ping bug discovered which allowed every user to effectively ping -f. There was a sysctl problem capable of crashing the machine fixed a month or two ago (which wasn't widely publicized outside the PR database) - note to self, check whether this was fixed in -STABLE as well - and there have been other kernel bugs patched over time which were capable of crashing machines reliably as ordinary users (there's an outstanding bug in the ATAPI code which reliably panics the machine by recursively grepping files on a CD - probably present in -STABLE as well since they share the same driver. I'm pretty sure there's a PR open on this one). Most of them never made it to the "'sploit" stage and were caught by the development process, is all. Kris > > If you want to see feature improvements and bugfixes look at > cvs-all@freebsd.org. > > *BSD has a decade and a half of work put into it so far, what other OS > can really say that? > > -Alfred > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > ----- The Feynman problem-solving algorithm: 1. Write down the problem 2. Think real hard 3. Write down the solution To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 18:43: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67C9D150FD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29716; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12930; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:42:56 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Subject: RE: Standard Splash Screen? Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For the moment, check the original site as it is more current than the one on advocacy.freebsd.org, although it looks like advocacy is going to be the offical home of the collection RSN. On 27-Apr-99 Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > votes also apply. :-) > > -- > Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) > dcs@newsguy.com > dcs@freebsd.org > > "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 18:53: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCD2150FD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:52:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01311; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12817; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:52:55 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Subject: RE: Standard Splash Screen? Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 27-Apr-99 Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > votes also apply. :-) I suggest that the standard splash screen be a 320x200 BMP instead of a nice high resolution one just so that it will show up on most everyone's computer. I know that the ATI 3D Rage graphics cards (both AGP and PCI) seem to have obnoxious VESA BIOS's and won't display 640x480 for example. And standard VGA cards are stuck using 320x200 too of course. Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is now support for PCX splash screens as well via /modules/splash_pcx.ko. Finally, my vote would have to be for saturn_1_320.bmp. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 19:47:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51486150DC for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:47:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id LAA28795; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:47:43 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3726764F.6E02773E@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:45:35 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin wrote: > > Finally, my vote would have to be for saturn_1_320.bmp. ? I couldn't find any saturn on the original site (I didn't even know about the newer one on advocacy.). -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness if that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 19:59:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86C814CA4 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10634; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03073; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3726764F.6E02773E@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:59:31 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 28-Apr-99 Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > John Baldwin wrote: >> >> Finally, my vote would have to be for saturn_1_320.bmp. It is the next to last one at http://www.baldwin.cx/splash/. Make sure you reload it. ;) > ? > > I couldn't find any saturn on the original site (I didn't even know > about the newer one on advocacy.). > > -- > Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) > dcs@newsguy.com > dcs@freebsd.org > > "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness if that _none_ of his > predictions have come true yet." --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 20:17:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pokey.local.net (arc1-76.netwalk.net [206.175.61.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0A11549C for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmutter@netwalk.com) Received: from insomnia.local.net (insomnia.local.net [192.168.2.3]) by pokey.local.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA41663; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:16:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jmutter@insomnia.local.net) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:18:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "James A. Mutter" Reply-To: jmutter@netwalk.com To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? In-Reply-To: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Another vote for "Real Hackers don't use splash screens". Like others in the group I like seeing the hardware list when the machine boots. If there is the possibility of this becoming a reality I would prefer that it be an option in sysinstall. On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: :Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a :default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" :votes also apply. :-) : :-- :Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) :dcs@newsguy.com :dcs@freebsd.org : : "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." : : : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message : : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 22:22: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D6DF814FC9 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 6207 invoked by alias); 28 Apr 1999 05:21:50 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 6155 invoked by uid 0); 28 Apr 1999 05:21:48 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 1999 05:21:48 -0000 Message-ID: <37269AED.31EAA0EB@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:21:49 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jmutter@netwalk.com Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "James A. Mutter" wrote: > > Another vote for "Real Hackers don't use splash screens". Like others > in the group I like seeing the hardware list when the machine boots. > > If there is the possibility of this becoming a reality I would prefer > that it be an option in sysinstall. Real hackers redirect the boot message output to a smaller secondary screen. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Apr 27 22:52:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30A615499 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA68539 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:51:35 -0700 Message-ID: <68533.925278695.1@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: FreeBSD 3.2 to be given to attendees of USENIX Technical Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" Content-Description: Blind Carbon Copy Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Original Message To: announce@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD 3.2 to be given to attendees of USENIX Technical Conference Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:51:35 -0700 Message-ID: <68533.925278695@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" MIME-Version: 1.0 Berkeley, California (April 27, 1999) USENIX is providing grants to the OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and Debian Linux development projects, to support each of them in issuing new releases. These releases will be given free of charge to all 1999 Annual Conference technical session registrants. The 1999 Annual Conference takes place June 6-11, in Monterey, California. Programs for the tutorial and technical sessions, including the FREENIX track, and associated events are online. Please go to http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix99 USENIX is helping to ensure the development process for open source software will be characterized by intense yet healthy competition. The FREENIX track at the annual conference is also part of this effort. It is devoted to high level technical discussion of open source software. FREENIX offers peer-refereed papers, expert talks, and evening sessions led by the likes of Linus Torvalds, Kirk McKusick, Theodore Ts'o, Theo de Raadt, and other leading developers. The conference keynote is by John Ousterhout, creator of Tcl/Tk and leading figure in the open source world. His attention will be on a fundamental shift in software development to integration applications - created by coordinating and extending existing applications, protocols, frameworks, and devices. Refereed papers at the conference are on topics of especially high interest: management of resource systems, file systems, virtual memory systems, storage systems, security, web server performance and O/S performance. The Invited talks concentrate on the extremely practical; topics include: UNIX/Open System & Y2K, IP Multicast, E-mail Bombs, IPv6, IP Telephony. 24 tutorials are being offered over three days, with Eric Allman, Tom Christiansen, Peter Galvin, Evi Nemeth, and Marcus Ranum among the instructors. Courses range over systems administration, security, Linux, high availability, kernel internals, Perl, performance tuning, network programming and configuration, and more. Within the conference, USENIX is sponsoring the Second Extreme Linux Workshop which will concentrate on issues of supercomputer-class and graphics systems created with off-the-shelf computers combined with high speed networking, and glued together with Linux. The workshop has very limited seating and attendance requires early registration. A related tutorial on how to build, program and administer a Beowulf system using Linux OS is being offered by members of the Caltech staff and there will be evening BoFs on Extreme Linux systems, where vendors (Extreme Linux hardware and software) will be encouraged to display their systems. And, as always at the annual conference, there's lots of discussion in the halls and over beers. This year the Conference is capped by the Reception featuring lucious desserts served in the fantastic Monterey Bay Aquarium. ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 6:56:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7C614D39 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:56:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-040.thuntek.net [207.66.52.40]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA00526; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37271317.6F1BF48@thuntek.net> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:54:31 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > > votes also apply. :-) > > Real Hackers don't use splash screens > > I really like seeing my hardware probed at bootup, perhaps sysinstall > should have an easy to notice splash selection dialog. > Agree with this totally. the only way I'd load a splash screen would be if the boot messages could be toggled on and off as an overlay scrolling across it. -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 8:52: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5918115720 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:51:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA59502 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:51:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:51:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: CHIP: Lies about FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The popular German computer magazine CHIP 05/99 comes with an article about alternate (imagine the typical Windows user) PC operating systems. Among others, the authors mention Linux (6 pages), and they mention FreeBSD (1 page). They elaborately write about the new Linux 2.2 kernel, and they write one(!) sentence about 3.1-RELEASE after mentioning 3.0-R just unstable. Nothing about the large step from 2.2.8-R to 3.x-R. The description of the history of FreeBSD ist approximately correct, and they talk about internet service providers loving FreeBSD because of its performance. They state that FreeBSD is as an server OS at least as useful as Linux. So long, no problem. But: The authors also give statements which are incorrect and which sound very negative. Below I give some citations, and I try to translate and (=3D=3D>) comment: 1. "FreeBSD ist binaerkompatibel zu SCO-Unix, BSDI, NetBSD, Linux und zu 386BSD. Das bedeutet, dass (theoretisch) Programme dieser Plattformen auch auf FreeBSD laufen." FreeBSD comes with support for SCO-Unix, BSDI, NetBSD, Linux and 386BSD binaries. This means that in principal programs for that operating systems run under FreeBSD. =3D=3D> No word about the nearly perfect Linux emulation! Instead, the reader will believe that emulation doesn't work in practice! 2. "Weitaus schlimmer ist, dass FreeBSD auch keine ISA-Plug-and-play-Karten unterstuetzt." Much more worse - FreeBSD doesn't support ISA plug and play cards. =3D=3D> I really don't know how the authors could overlook PnP support in FreeBSD! 3. "Mit dem Entwicklungstempo von Linux kann die freie Unix-Familie mangels Entwickler- und Anwendermassen sowieso nicht mithalten. Kurz: Ein Betriebssystem fuer Fans, dessen Zukunft unklar ist." The free UNIX family [the authors talk about FreeBSD and NetBSD here] will inevitably fall behind Linux because there are too less developers and users. To be short: an operating system for fans with an obscure future. =3D=3D> Have the authors ever taken a look at the impressive step to 3.x-RELEASE? I'm in doubt! Have they really shown interest for any other alternate OS than Linux? What can we do? I will write a detailed comment about that article to the editorial office (redaktion@chip.de), and I'd like to encourage others to this as well. It's worse to read about FreeBSD in a negative context than to read nothing about it! The normal Windows user will never install FreeBSD after reading the article! One exception: he/she already knows FreeBSD and thus removes the magazine where it belongs - to the waste paper basket. Regards // // Konrad Heuer ____ ___ _____= __=20 // Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche / __/______ ___ / _ )/ __= / _ \ // Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen / _// __/ -_) -_) _ |\ \/= // / // Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen /_/ /_/ \__/\__/____/___= /____/=20 // Deutschland (Germany) ----- The Power to Serve ----= - // http://www.freebsd.org // kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de // To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 12:18: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9881577A for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:17:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id MAA10050; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id MAA25460; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:16:11 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA16343; Wed, 28 Apr 99 12:16:02 PDT Message-Id: <37275E76.A01D69C0@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:16:06 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: Alfred Perlstein , "Daniel C. Sobral" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: <37271317.6F1BF48@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > > > > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > > > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > > > votes also apply. :-) > > > > Real Hackers don't use splash screens > > > > I really like seeing my hardware probed at bootup, perhaps sysinstall > > should have an easy to notice splash selection dialog. > > > Agree with this totally. the only way I'd load a splash screen would be > if the boot messages could be toggled on and off as an overlay scrolling > across it. I like the idea of a sysinstall knob for splash screens. Generally they annoy me, but I've installed a splash screen on my laptop because I often find myself starting it in the midst of a crowd of "the unwashed masses," and I want them to view our cute little daemon in all his glory during the boot sequence. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 12:20:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E9114E00 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:20:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-061.thuntek.net [207.66.52.61]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id NAA03095; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:20:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37275F0B.E8811BFA@thuntek.net> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:18:35 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Konrad Heuer Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CHIP: Lies about FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Konrad Heuer wrote: > What can we do? I will write a detailed comment about that article to the > editorial office (redaktion@chip.de), and I'd like to encourage others to > this as well. > > It's worse to read about FreeBSD in a negative context than to read > nothing about it! The normal Windows user will never install FreeBSD after > reading the article! One exception: he/she already knows FreeBSD and thus > removes the magazine where it belongs - to the waste paper basket. > Authors and editors write about what they're familiar -- and comfortable -- with. I'd complement the guy for the things he did right and offer to be a source for information and proofreading for his next article. Making friends with editors and authors is some of the best PR there is. Become his friend and perhaps he will let you collaborate with him on his next piece! Remember, he has to write to eat. If you put words in his mouth all he has to do is chew and perform his other normal functions... -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 12:29:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 001101.zer0.org (001101.zer0.org [206.24.105.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08E614D10 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:29:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by 001101.zer0.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id MAA98717; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:29:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@pobox.com) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:29:18 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? Message-ID: <19990428122918.G65097@001101.zer0.org> References: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 06:47:41AM +0900 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 06:47:41AM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > votes also apply. :-) As long as the "default" is an option which is set to "NO" unless specifically enabled, I vote for the old Daemon News front graphic-- the beastie surrounded by a red fog. It might be nice to include a text overlay saying "FreeBSD". Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 17:12: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D708F154FB for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id JAA26849; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:11:51 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3727A111.B3F287AD@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:00:17 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Sutter Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> <19990428122918.G65097@001101.zer0.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gregory Sutter wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 06:47:41AM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > > votes also apply. :-) > > As long as the "default" is an option which is set to "NO" unless > specifically enabled, I vote for the old Daemon News front graphic-- > the beastie surrounded by a red fog. It might be nice to include a > text overlay saying "FreeBSD". Let me explain my wording, too. :-) By "default boot splash screen", I don't mean it will be *on* by default. I mean that it will be the bitmap used by default if someone turn it on. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness if that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 17:13:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F3215122 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id JAA26832; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:11:40 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3727A084.8D1ACC9F@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:57:56 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donald Wilde Cc: Alfred Perlstein , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: <37271317.6F1BF48@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: > > Agree with this totally. the only way I'd load a splash screen would be > if the boot messages could be toggled on and off as an overlay scrolling > across it. Splash screens do not prevent boot messages from being printed. They are still there, and can be seen as soon as the splash screen goes away (at the login prompt, or by pressing any key after the rc starts). Not trying to convince anyone of using them, just trying to dispel what seems to be a myth about them. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness if that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 18:33:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E26E1548B for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:33:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 13019 invoked by alias); 29 Apr 1999 01:33:12 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 12997 invoked by uid 0); 29 Apr 1999 01:33:11 -0000 Received: from fdsl89.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (216.161.80.89) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 01:33:11 -0000 Message-ID: <3727B6D8.2B362B0F@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:33:12 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: The GPL to become more business-friendly? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Posted here because I think this signals something very big that could have a profound impact on [Net|Open|Free]BSD's visibility. http://www.businessweek.com/cgi-bin/bwdaily_full?right=dnflash/apr1999/nf90427b.htm (watch the URL, it might wrap in your mail reader) Stallman claims a rewrite of the GPL is under way. From the article, it would seem as though they're going to adopt at least some of the practices held by the BSDL. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 21:13:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F5B14FAE for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:13:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA09637; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:13:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:13:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? In-Reply-To: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I like that one with the red haze and the daemon silhouette. Makes for both a spiffy splash screen, a great screen saver, and a nice X desktop at any resolution. And slightly before I load up the StarOffice presentation package to do a presentation, I get the gleefully answer the question "Why is there a devil on your wallpaper?" :). I also like the "wow, that's UNIX thing" after they see me log into kdm, onto a desktop using kfm as a file manager and window maker as the window manager (they seem to interoperate nicely). And with StarOffice 5, the shock value is great :-). BTW, I followed the directions for SO5 on freebsdrocks, but there are some errors. Anyone know who I email about this? (like some command/directory names are wrong, et al). But splash screens are great, as they hide a lot of nasty complexity that most people don't need or want to look at. There's a slight blip in between the end of the splash screen and the beginning of kdm. Anyone have any thoughts on how to hide that? Robert On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a > default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" > votes also apply. :-) > > -- > Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) > dcs@newsguy.com > dcs@freebsd.org > > "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 22:12: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7862A15511 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:12:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17124; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04852; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:11:56 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, "Daniel C. Sobral" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 29-Apr-99 Robert Watson wrote: > I also like the "wow, that's UNIX thing" after they see me log into kdm, > onto a desktop using kfm as a file manager and window maker as the window > manager (they seem to interoperate nicely). I still use fvwm2 for all my wm'ing needs, but I do use kdm instead of xdm. I even have a blowup of chuck from the one where he's standing on the rock for the little pic in the dialog box. > But splash screens are great, as they hide a lot of nasty complexity that > most people don't need or want to look at. There's a slight blip in > between the end of the splash screen and the beginning of kdm. Anyone > have any thoughts on how to hide that? You can't w/o having weird side effects like the keyboard or mouse not working in X. It's only for a second or two so I wouldn't worry 'bout it all that much. > Robert > > On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > >> Anyone here would vote on any of the currently available art for a >> default boot splash screen? "Real Hackers don't use splash screens" >> votes also apply. :-) >> >> -- >> Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) >> dcs@newsguy.com >> dcs@freebsd.org >> >> "Well, Windows works, using a loose definition of 'works'..." > > Robert N Watson > > robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 22:19:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C7C14F22 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:19:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19054 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:19:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3727EBDE.78AC24BA@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:19:26 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Fwd: Your article "Linux May Be Running on Some Spindly Legal Legs" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG How's this for a response? Wes Peters wrote: > > Mr. Berman, > > I have just read your referenced article. Please allow me to thank > and congratulate you for presenting the current shaky legal status > of the GPL in clear, concise light. This license has been discussed > often in the popular computing trade press, but never before have > I seen such a lucid legal examination of it. > > I personally avoid the GPL for my own public coding efforts due > to the obnoxious clauses constraining future users and developers > of code. If software is truly to be free, it must be free of the > encumberances of the GPL. > > Perhaps in a future article you could point out the differences > between the GPL and the so-called "Berkeley license," used in the > code created at the University of California at Berkeley. As you > are certainly aware, much of the software that runs the Internet > today was created at UC Berkeley, and is distributed under the > following license terms: > > /*- > * Copyright (c) 1991 The Regents of the University of California. > * All rights reserved. > * > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > * are met: > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. > * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software > * must display the following acknowledgement: > * This product includes software developed by the University of > * California, Berkeley and its contributors. > * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors > * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software > * without specific prior written permission. > * > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND > * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE > * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > */ > > (This license was taken directly from one of the system source code files > in my FreeBSD system, where I read your article and composed this message.) > > A careful reading of this license will reveal that commercial use > is allowed. In fact, commercial use of this not only allowed, it > is encouraged. Portions of the BSD TCP/IP code are found in nearly > every commercial operating system that supports networking, including > the WinSock variant found on Microsoft systems, the VxWorks embedded > operating system found on Mars Pathfinder, and even in Linux. > Commercial versions of UNIX, including SunOS and Ultrix have been > based on the entire BSD operating system. > > These days, freely available variants of BSD UNIX in the form of FreeBSD, > NetBSD, and OpenBSD provide quality, reliable alternative to Windows, > commercial UNIX variants, and Linux. FreeBSD is so stable and reliable, > it is used to power web servers Yahoo! and Hotmail, the ftp server at > Walnut Creek CD-ROM, the Internet Movie Database, and the rendering farm > that created the special effects for the movie "The Matrix." > > Given the reputation and reliability of the BSD code base and the free > licensing terms of the Berkeley license, it may well be that FreeBSD, > not Linux, is truly the operating system of the future. I think > corporate America will find it much more comfortable territory, since > they have already made a home there for nearly 20 years. > > For more information, see: > > http://www.daemonnews.org/ E-zine about "All things BSD..." > http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Project home page > http://www.netbsd.org/ NetBSD Project home page > http://www.openbsd.org/ OpenBSD Project home page -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 22:41:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7270B157BD for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:41:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id WAA07908; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:41:46 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:41:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: Wes Peters Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: Fwd: Your article "Linux May Be Running on Some Spindly Legal Legs" In-Reply-To: <3727EBDE.78AC24BA@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG doesn't that seem just a bit.. harsh? Its a reply that more preaches then it ask for some form of change or a slap on the back. Its a little to stiff and strong worded, making it something I'd imagine on a lawyer's letterhead. I believe you wish to tell him that: 1. You were extremely happy to see a member of the media question the legal status of the GPL. (Do this in not a manner saying that BSD is better, but rather that its nice that not everyone is linux crazy). 2. You would like BSD to be mentioned in future articles. (Such as, he says that the GPL will be revised to make corperate America happy - the BSD liscense has already done this for quite some time). 3. That you beleive, after long happy usage, that FreeBSD is truly the operating system of the future. While Linux has its merits, and you respect them, FreeBSD has many plusses that you find far outway Linux's current atractions. Basicly you did the above.. just don;t make him feel critisized or on the defensive.. loosen it up! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 28 23:24:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9E914D60 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:24:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA47601; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Wes Peters Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: Fwd: Your article "Linux May Be Running on Some Spindly Legal Legs" In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:19:26 MDT." <3727EBDE.78AC24BA@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:24:34 -0700 Message-ID: <47599.925367074@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is very well written and some parts of it are practically press release material in their own right. Want a job? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 3:16:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C441115880 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id UAA22142; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:15:46 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19990429201542.52904@welearn.com.au> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:15:42 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: advocacy@openbsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: We're BUGS now! (Sydney user group) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG BUGS is the new user group for *BSD users in Sydney (and NSW). The first meeting of BUGS will be on 16 May, midday at Hornsby. To find out more, join the mailing list by sending "subscribe bugs" in the body of an email addressed to majordomo@welearn.com.au or send a blank message to bugs-info@welearn.com.au for the latest info. -- Regards, -*Sue*- (` () '` To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 4:40:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47E515180 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA11421; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:40:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:40:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Wes Peters Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: Fwd: Your article "Linux May Be Running on Some Spindly Legal Legs" In-Reply-To: <3727EBDE.78AC24BA@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes, This is a great letter. Given that it's a discussion of the license, I'd be tempted to talk about the removal of the two clauses in the example license in /usr/share/.. for the purposes of completeness. Specifically, the advertising clause since that has been a point of criticism previously for the BSD license. You might also want to refer to some of the related and effectively identical licenses (such as the CMU license on Mach, as we use the Mach virtual memory system, another fine heritage worth mentioning to bolster the FreeBSD case). It might also be worth pointing out some of the existing commercial use of BSD included in existing products, not just its use by companies, including things like InterJet, the real time operatring system who's name eludes me for the moment, BSD/OS which actually has an embedded sparc version I believe, etc. Anyhow, it looks like a cogent and well-formulated argument :-). And the development side of things (i.e., incorporation in a product) is an area where the corporate concern can be particularly clearly observed, due to the stickiness factor. And to allay the concerns of the GNU folk that it results in a "proprietary" system, it's easy enough to point to Whistle's many great contributions, as well as BSDI's dos emulator, etc. Thanks, Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 5:43: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hamhae.wdb.co.kr (hamhae.wdb.co.kr [210.92.121.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB1A15836 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjh@hamhae.wdb.co.kr) Received: (from cjh@localhost) by hamhae.wdb.co.kr (8.9.2/8.9.3) id VAA98386; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:42:45 +0900 (KST) (envelope-from cjh) To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Korea FreeBSD Users Group appears Korea Linux Conference & Expo From: "CHOI, Junho" Date: 29 Apr 1999 21:42:44 +0900 Message-ID: <86zp3ry4vv.fsf@hamhae.wdb.co.kr> Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, As a first public event of KFUG(Korea FreeBSD Users Group), we will have a small FreeBSD booth in 1st Korea Linux Expo & Conference. ( http://www.linuxexpo.co.kr ) We will display FreeBSD machines, and distribute FreeBSD 3.1 CD for free to the registered attendants(1000 pieces) for 2-day conference and exhibition. After the expo we have the plan to send the remaining CD to who need it for free. CD production cost is by donation of Web Data Bank Co. It is just promotion of FreeBSD in Korea. After the event I will post some pictures and report to www.kr.freebsd.org. Please cheer us! -- ** Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my employers ** CHOI, Junho - Korea FreeBSD Users Group - Web Data Bank Co. Seoul., ROK. (+82-2-515-9941) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 6: 9:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hamhae.wdb.co.kr (hamhae.wdb.co.kr [210.92.121.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49111510D for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:09:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjh@hamhae.wdb.co.kr) Received: (from cjh@localhost) by hamhae.wdb.co.kr (8.9.2/8.9.3) id WAA04659; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:09:19 +0900 (KST) (envelope-from cjh) To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Korea FreeBSD Users Group appears Korea Linux Conference & Expo References: <86zp3ry4vv.fsf@hamhae.wdb.co.kr> From: "CHOI, Junho" Date: 29 Apr 1999 22:09:17 +0900 In-Reply-To: "CHOI, Junho"'s message of "29 Apr 1999 21:42:44 +0900" Message-ID: <86wvyvy3nm.fsf@hamhae.wdb.co.kr> Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "CJ" == CHOI, Junho writes: CJ> As a first public event of KFUG(Korea FreeBSD Users Group), we will CJ> have a small FreeBSD booth in 1st Korea Linux Expo & Conference. CJ> ( http://www.linuxexpo.co.kr ) Oh, I forgot something. The conference will be held on May 3-4 in Hotel Lotte, Seoul, Korea. -- ** Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my employers ** CHOI, Junho - Korea FreeBSD Users Group - Web Data Bank Co. Seoul., ROK. (+82-2-515-9941) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 6:32:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE711583E for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:32:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id PAA25446; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:32:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: John Baldwin Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 29 Apr 1999 15:32:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: John Baldwin's message of "Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:52:55 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin writes: > Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is now support for > PCX splash screens as well via /modules/splash_pcx.ko. Correct. Guess who wrote it :) It works slightly better than the bmp decoder, and is slightly smaller. It does not, however, fade the picture in and out like the bmp decoder does. > Finally, my vote would have to be for saturn_1_320.bmp. I vote for a notional saturn_1_320.pcx :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 6:36: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9213615828 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:36:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08341; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "CHOI, Junho" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Korea FreeBSD Users Group appears Korea Linux Conference & Expo In-reply-to: Your message of "29 Apr 1999 21:42:44 +0900." <86zp3ry4vv.fsf@hamhae.wdb.co.kr> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:36:11 -0700 Message-ID: <8337.925392971@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We will display FreeBSD machines, and distribute FreeBSD 3.1 CD > for free to the registered attendants(1000 pieces) for 2-day > conference and exhibition. After the expo we have the plan to send the > remaining CD to who need it for free. CD production cost is by > donation of Web Data Bank Co. It is just promotion of FreeBSD in > Korea. > > After the event I will post some pictures and report to > www.kr.freebsd.org. > > Please cheer us! CHEER! Very well done, guys! A 1000 CD give-away is hardly a trivial undertaking, to say nothing of setting up a booth with machines in it (I know how much work this is, believe me!). If half our users groups worked this hard, we'd take over the world! :-) Sounds like I need to make Korea a stop on one of my next visits to the pacific rim... I had no idea you guys were so well organized! :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 9:44:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477001585A for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:44:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05193; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:43:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: "CHOI, Junho" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Korea FreeBSD Users Group appears Korea Linux Conference & Expo In-Reply-To: <86zp3ry4vv.fsf@hamhae.wdb.co.kr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG When you get the pictures and stuff done, could you please write up your experiences into an article for the Daemon News. -Chris On 29 Apr 1999, CHOI, Junho wrote: > > Hi all, > > As a first public event of KFUG(Korea FreeBSD Users Group), we will > have a small FreeBSD booth in 1st Korea Linux Expo & Conference. > ( http://www.linuxexpo.co.kr ) > > We will display FreeBSD machines, and distribute FreeBSD 3.1 CD > for free to the registered attendants(1000 pieces) for 2-day > conference and exhibition. After the expo we have the plan to send the > remaining CD to who need it for free. CD production cost is by > donation of Web Data Bank Co. It is just promotion of FreeBSD in > Korea. > > After the event I will post some pictures and report to > www.kr.freebsd.org. > > Please cheer us! > > -- > ** Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my employers ** > CHOI, Junho > - Korea FreeBSD Users Group > - Web Data Bank Co. Seoul., ROK. (+82-2-515-9941) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 12:29:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8804150F9 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:29:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA11128; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:48:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:48:44 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Wes Peters Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: Fwd: Your article "Linux May Be Running on Some Spindly Legal Legs" Message-ID: <19990429194844.B10613@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <3727EBDE.78AC24BA@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3727EBDE.78AC24BA@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 11:19:26PM -0600 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 11:19:26PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > I think > > corporate America will find it much more comfortable territory, since > > they have already made a home there for nearly 20 years. Very, very smooth. :-) N -- There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 12:36:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686E5156C3 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA10857; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:46:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:46:55 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Gregory Sutter , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? Message-ID: <19990429194655.A10613@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> <19990428122918.G65097@001101.zer0.org> <3727A111.B3F287AD@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3727A111.B3F287AD@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Thu, Apr 29, 1999 at 09:00:17AM +0900 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Apr 29, 1999 at 09:00:17AM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Let me explain my wording, too. :-) By "default boot splash screen", > I don't mean it will be *on* by default. I mean that it will be the > bitmap used by default if someone turn it on. How about a bitmap of the text; In order to change this picture edit the file ... A collection of FreeBSD images can be found at http://..../ I'm serious. N -- There's some milk in the fridge about to go off. . . and there it goes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 12:41:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wolf.cian.net (tnt-3-57.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD3E1537B for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: from ukonline.co.uk (localhost.cian.net [127.0.0.1]) by wolf.cian.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA02886; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:41:25 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Message-ID: <3728B5E5.37F1759A@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:41:25 +0100 From: gurab Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Gregory Sutter , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standard Splash Screen? References: <3726307D.15CE9D04@newsguy.com> <19990428122918.G65097@001101.zer0.org> <3727A111.B3F287AD@newsguy.com> <19990429194655.A10613@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 29, 1999 at 09:00:17AM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > Let me explain my wording, too. :-) By "default boot splash screen", > > I don't mean it will be *on* by default. I mean that it will be the > > bitmap used by default if someone turn it on. > > How about a bitmap of the text; > > In order to change this picture edit the file ... > > A collection of FreeBSD images can be found at > http://..../ > > I'm serious. > > N > -- Supposing they don't have internet? Shouldn't you at least include some form of 'default' collection ? -- A computer is for life, not just for Christmas http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD ..... anything else is computer cruelty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 29 13:24:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB26152B7 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:24:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10cxMO-0004T1-0A for advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:24:46 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id VAA02144 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:23:59 +0100 Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id VAA00456 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:19:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from marko) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:19:28 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Fwd:[ BSD family leads internet-visible servers in the UK] Message-ID: <19990429211928.A430@marder-1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mark Blackman posted this to the UK UG mailing list. Thought others may be interested. ----- Forwarded message from Mark Blackman ----- To: freebsd-users@freebsd-uk.eu.org Subject: BSD family leads internet-visible servers in the UK Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:07:43 +0100 From: Mark Blackman FWIW, the April 99 Internet Operating System counter seems to indicate that of all possible servers of the form {ftp,news,www}.*.uk, one third run *BSD and that's ahead of Linux at one fourth. http://leb.net/hzo/data/r.9904.uk.txt -------- FreeBSD UK User's Group - Mailing List --------- To unsubscribe send a message to majordomo@freebsd-uk.eu.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-users" in the body. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 15:14:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18F714BDE for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:14:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 2CE5018BE; Sat, 1 May 1999 17:13:36 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 17:13:36 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle Subject: link doesnt lint to floppy images To: advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Message-Id: <19990501171336.2CE5018BE@eagle.phc.igs.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Guys, A friend of mine came over today and informed me that from the web page, he couldn't find the installation floppy images. the link goes to the readme, not the directory where the images are. perhaps we need to add direct links to the two installation images. rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 16:16:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13EB814C36; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:16:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27321; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:36:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:36:13 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9r=F4me?= PATEY Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Screen Shots In-Reply-To: <372B9089.1615FC38@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 2 May 1999, [iso-8859-1] J=E9r=F4me PATEY wrote: > Are there any screen shots of FreeBSD available somewhere on the net ? Jordan/David, care to post a screen shot with a perfmeter running off of ftp.cdrom.com (open connections, data transfer/sec etc..?) It's be a really nice shot to put up on advocacy.freebsd.org :) instead of focusing on "pretty" it would be really nice to have=20 some "power screen shots".... :) here's some desktops i've been given: http://www.hentschel.net/screen01.jpg http://oclock.ddns.org/screenshots/e014cycosmos.jpg Most of the cool linux desktops you see for linux are available for FreeBSD, most BSDers i know work harder on thier servers than thier desktops though. :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 21:32:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D699214E8F for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA12794 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:02:33 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA15882; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:03:09 +0930 Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:03:09 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot at http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting selection of comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed Linux weenies that their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot of pro-FreeBSD comments, but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. Kris ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, That's sharp!" - Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 21:45:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91EB614E86 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27778; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905020442.VAA27778@implode.root.com> To: Kris Kennaway Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 May 1999 14:03:09 +0930." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 21:42:48 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot at >http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting selection of >comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed Linux weenies that >their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot of pro-FreeBSD comments, >but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. I'm preparing a formal press release about the upgrade that should be released on Monday. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 21:50:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3118914E1A for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:50:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA27808; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:20:45 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA04846; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:20:44 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:20:44 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: David Greenman Cc: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article Message-ID: <19990502142044.G80561@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199905020442.VAA27778@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199905020442.VAA27778@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Sat, May 01, 1999 at 09:42:48PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 1 May 1999 at 21:42:48 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot at >> http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting selection of >> comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed Linux weenies that >> their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot of pro-FreeBSD comments, >> but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. > > I'm preparing a formal press release about the upgrade that should be > released on Monday. So how much data is it transferring now? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 21:51:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D336014E1A for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-10-141.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.10.141]) by mail-gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12330; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:51:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01913; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:52:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:52:54 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Kris Kennaway Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article Message-ID: <19990501235252.B1246@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Sun, May 02, 1999 at 02:03:09PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 1, 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot at > http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting selection of > comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed Linux weenies that > their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot of pro-FreeBSD comments, > but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. Beginning to see my point? > > Kris > > ----- > "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been > rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into > someone's eye" > "Wow, That's sharp!" - Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello Make it right before you make it faster. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 21:54: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24ACE14E1A for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA12541; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:24:02 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA03874; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:24:38 +0930 Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:24:38 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: chris@calldei.com Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article In-Reply-To: <19990501235252.B1246@holly.dyndns.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 1 May 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > On Sat, May 1, 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot at > > http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting selection of > > comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed Linux weenies that > > their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot of pro-FreeBSD comments, > > but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. > > Beginning to see my point? Which point? Kris > -- > Chris Costello > Make it right before you make it faster. > ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, That's sharp!" - Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 22:19:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 113E314DAF for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27861; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905020515.WAA27861@implode.root.com> To: Greg Lehey Cc: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 May 1999 14:20:44 +0930." <19990502142044.G80561@freebie.lemis.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 22:15:52 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Saturday, 1 May 1999 at 21:42:48 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>> There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot at >>> http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting selection of >>> comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed Linux weenies that >>> their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot of pro-FreeBSD comments, >>> but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. >> >> I'm preparing a formal press release about the upgrade that should be >> released on Monday. > >So how much data is it transferring now? Imagine a daily traffic graph with a straight line at 98Mbps. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 22:52: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E1BF14EA0 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA12045; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:11:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 01:11:04 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: David Greenman Cc: Greg Lehey , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article In-Reply-To: <199905020515.WAA27861@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 1 May 1999, David Greenman wrote: > >On Saturday, 1 May 1999 at 21:42:48 -0700, David Greenman wrote: > >>> There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot at > >>> http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting selection of > >>> comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed Linux weenies that > >>> their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot of pro-FreeBSD comments, > >>> but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. > >> > >> I'm preparing a formal press release about the upgrade that should be > >> released on Monday. > > > >So how much data is it transferring now? > > Imagine a daily traffic graph with a straight line at 98Mbps. Not knowing if you even run X, or have libs installed on ftp.cdrom.com... put perhaps even a screen-shot of your desktop with top, systat, iostat, netstat running in several different Xterms..... running on ftp.cdrom.com, we could start the "FreeBSD desktops page". cool icons are one thing, but "the power to serve" shown via these utilities would be awesome... please please please please... :) (it would hopefully find itself somewhere on advocacy.freebsd.org)... -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 22:59:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 294DD153BC for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:59:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-10-141.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.10.141]) by mail-gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03706; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:58:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02129; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:00:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 01:00:01 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: David Greenman , Greg Lehey , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article Message-ID: <19990502010000.D1246@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <199905020515.WAA27861@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Sun, May 02, 1999 at 01:11:04AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 2, 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Not knowing if you even run X, or have libs installed on ftp.cdrom.com... > put perhaps even a screen-shot of your desktop with top, systat, iostat, > netstat running in several different Xterms..... running on ftp.cdrom.com, > we could start the "FreeBSD desktops page". David's too busy playing with the new Quake III demo on it to bother. Seriously - why would it run X? Doesn't that strike you as a bad idea, at least slightly? > > cool icons are one thing, but "the power to serve" shown via these > utilities would be awesome... > > please please please please... :) > > (it would hopefully find itself somewhere on advocacy.freebsd.org)... > > -Alfred > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello Choose variable names that will not be confused. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 23: 5:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D9A15330; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27985; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905020603.XAA27985@implode.root.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: new picture of wcarchive From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:03:15 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A new picture of the new wcarchive is now available at: ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.jpg ...and an updated hardware description is available at: ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.txt -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 23:12:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B10E15330 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:12:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28012; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905020608.XAA28012@implode.root.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Greg Lehey , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 May 1999 01:11:04 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:08:54 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Sat, 1 May 1999, David Greenman wrote: > >> >On Saturday, 1 May 1999 at 21:42:48 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> >>> There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot at >> >>> http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting selection of >> >>> comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed Linux weenies that >> >>> their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot of pro-FreeBSD comments, >> >>> but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. >> >> >> >> I'm preparing a formal press release about the upgrade that should be >> >> released on Monday. >> > >> >So how much data is it transferring now? >> >> Imagine a daily traffic graph with a straight line at 98Mbps. > >Not knowing if you even run X, or have libs installed on ftp.cdrom.com... >put perhaps even a screen-shot of your desktop with top, systat, iostat, >netstat running in several different Xterms..... running on ftp.cdrom.com, >we could start the "FreeBSD desktops page". > >cool icons are one thing, but "the power to serve" shown via these >utilities would be awesome... > >please please please please... :) > >(it would hopefully find itself somewhere on advocacy.freebsd.org)... Of course I use X here, but we don't run an X server on wcarchive (no point - it doesn't even have a display! :-)). The best I can provide for you right now are the graphs that are available at http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html. These are currently shown in megabytes per second, but we're going to ask that they change to megabits per second as that is a lot more standard when measuring bandwidth consumption. I also plan to make these graphs, along with other statistical data, more officially available on the cdrom.com web site. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 1 23:26:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pcslink.com (pcslink.com [206.43.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1870E14EBE for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@pcslink.com) Received: (from ryan@localhost) by pcslink.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA03061; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:26:22 -0700 (MST) From: Ryan Mooney Message-Id: <199905020626.XAA03061@pcslink.com> Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article In-Reply-To: <199905020608.XAA28012@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "May 1, 99 11:08:54 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:26:22 -0700 (MST) Cc: bright@rush.net, grog@lemis.com, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is very cool, I can use this as ammo for justifying FBSD elsewhere... The one other thing that I personally (and I'm sure others to) would find very interesting is the tuning info for ftp... especially things like the kernel config file, I imagine its a long way from GENERIC :) > Of course I use X here, but we don't run an X server on wcarchive (no > point - it doesn't even have a display! :-)). > The best I can provide for you right now are the graphs that are available > at http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html. These are currently shown in > megabytes per second, but we're going to ask that they change to megabits > per second as that is a lot more standard when measuring bandwidth > consumption. I also plan to make these graphs, along with other statistical > data, more officially available on the cdrom.com web site. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org > Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-=-< Ryan Mooney Phone (602)265-9188 PCSLink ryan@pcslink.com Internet Services NT is an excellent choice for managers who need to show that they used up their fiscal year budget for hardware/software expenditures. <-=-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-=-> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 0:25:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5182614F34 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:25:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA05428; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:45:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 02:45:17 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: chris@calldei.com Cc: David Greenman , Greg Lehey , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article In-Reply-To: <19990502010000.D1246@holly.dyndns.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 2 May 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > On Sun, May 2, 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Not knowing if you even run X, or have libs installed on ftp.cdrom.com... > > put perhaps even a screen-shot of your desktop with top, systat, iostat, > > netstat running in several different Xterms..... running on ftp.cdrom.com, > > we could start the "FreeBSD desktops page". > > David's too busy playing with the new Quake III demo on > it to bother. I figured that's why it was down for so long :) > > Seriously - why would it run X? Doesn't that strike you as a > bad idea, at least slightly? I meant X on his desktop and X libs installed on the server so he could run perfmeters remotely... :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 4:16:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7EBA150CD; Sun, 2 May 1999 04:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA28670; Sun, 2 May 1999 04:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905021114.EAA28670@implode.root.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: new traffic record for wcarchive From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 04:14:04 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After the first full day of operation on the new server hardware for wcarchive, we set a new one-day traffic record of 969GB. Details below. 46% of the traffic was for Linux, due mainly to the release of Redhat 6.0. The fast ethernet was completely saturated for the 24 hour period. There are plans to add additional network capacity, but no agreement has been made on this yet. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: burden@web1.cdrom.com Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [209.155.82.18]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA28605 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web1.cdrom.com (web1.cdrom.com [209.155.82.19]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA87405 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from burden@web1.cdrom.com) Received: (from burden@localhost) by web1.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA17788 for ftp-stats@ftp.cdrom.com; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:37:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from burden) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 03:37:26 -0700 (PDT) From: John Burden Message-Id: <199905021037.DAA17788@web1.cdrom.com> To: ftp-stats@wcarchive.cdrom.com Subject: Dual Log Stats - 1999/05/02 Dual Log Stats : May 02 1999 -------------------------------------------------- Current Record Delta --------------------- --------------------- --------------------- Bytes 969,876,086,079 969,876,086,079 New Record! Files 2,522,598 2,988,298 -465,700 FTP Bytes 969,876,086,079 969,876,086,079 New Record! FTP Files 2,522,598 2,988,298 -465,700 HTTP Bytes 58,081,249,072 -58,081,249,072 HTTP Files 567,700 -567,700 =============================================================================== Total FTP HTTP Total FTP HTTP Total Total Bytes Bytes Bytes Files Files Files %Bytes %Files - -------------- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- ------- ------ ------ /linux 452,284M 452,284M 0M 1,754,951 1,754,951 0 46.63 69.57 /3dfiles 131,810M 131,810M 0M 40,095 40,095 0 13.59 1.59 /planetquake 69,538M 69,538M 0M 47,540 47,540 0 7.17 1.88 /idgames 52,751M 52,751M 0M 30,801 30,801 0 5.44 1.22 /FreeBSD 50,832M 50,832M 0M 287,678 287,678 0 5.24 11.40 /cnet 37,561M 37,561M 0M 25,460 25,460 0 3.87 1.01 /simtelnet 31,091M 31,091M 0M 50,054 50,054 0 3.21 1.98 /games 27,992M 27,992M 0M 14,132 14,132 0 2.89 0.56 /gamesdomain 25,060M 25,060M 0M 8,333 8,333 0 2.58 0.33 /unreal 21,434M 21,434M 0M 10,305 10,305 0 2.21 0.41 /3drealms 13,716M 13,716M 0M 21,547 21,547 0 1.41 0.85 /idgames2 12,072M 12,072M 0M 34,880 34,880 0 1.24 1.38 /audio 11,058M 11,058M 0M 120,893 120,893 0 1.14 4.79 /demos 5,691M 5,691M 0M 10,555 10,555 0 0.59 0.42 /bluesnews 4,319M 4,319M 0M 1,180 1,180 0 0.45 0.05 /dresden 3,830M 3,830M 0M 4,851 4,851 0 0.39 0.19 /jn4 2,796M 2,796M 0M 676 676 0 0.29 0.03 /XFree86 2,005M 2,005M 0M 2,733 2,733 0 0.21 0.11 /gt 1,738M 1,738M 0M 524 524 0 0.18 0.02 /sac 1,354M 1,354M 0M 3,955 3,955 0 0.14 0.16 /cheats 1,053M 1,053M 0M 2,371 2,371 0 0.11 0.09 /os2 1,040M 1,040M 0M 4,025 4,025 0 0.11 0.16 /delphi 1,011M 1,011M 0M 4,319 4,319 0 0.10 0.17 /artpacks 924M 924M 0M 2,694 2,694 0 0.10 0.11 /japanese 863M 863M 0M 956 956 0 0.09 0.04 /perl 778M 778M 0M 7,390 7,390 0 0.08 0.29 /tex 640M 640M 0M 2,109 2,109 0 0.07 0.08 /gnu 483M 483M 0M 531 531 0 0.05 0.02 /gutenberg 451M 451M 0M 1,671 1,671 0 0.05 0.07 /delphideli 336M 336M 0M 1,247 1,247 0 0.03 0.05 //ls-lR 326M 326M 0M 996 996 0 0.03 0.04 //ls-lR.gz 323M 323M 0M 125 125 0 0.03 0.00 /languages 242M 242M 0M 1,424 1,424 0 0.02 0.06 /bsd-sources 239M 239M 0M 65 65 0 0.02 0.00 /povray 224M 224M 0M 615 615 0 0.02 0.02 /unixfreeware 195M 195M 0M 326 326 0 0.02 0.01 /gus 189M 189M 0M 372 372 0 0.02 0.01 /abuse 188M 188M 0M 216 216 0 0.02 0.01 /infozip 167M 167M 0M 1,024 1,024 0 0.02 0.04 /novell 158M 158M 0M 569 569 0 0.02 0.02 /x2ftp 135M 135M 0M 522 522 0 0.01 0.02 /ase 124M 124M 0M 916 916 0 0.01 0.04 /security 113M 113M 0M 542 542 0 0.01 0.02 /mozilla 95M 95M 0M 32 32 0 0.01 0.00 /NetBSD 78M 78M 0M 183 183 0 0.01 0.01 /garbo 65M 65M 0M 419 419 0 0.01 0.02 /qnx 55M 55M 0M 46 46 0 0.01 0.00 /irc 40M 40M 0M 347 347 0 0.00 0.01 /math 38M 38M 0M 296 296 0 0.00 0.01 /wcarchive.jpg 30M 30M 0M 352 352 0 0.00 0.01 /X11 30M 30M 0M 135 135 0 0.00 0.01 /cdrom 27M 27M 0M 700 700 0 0.00 0.03 /java 27M 27M 0M 319 319 0 0.00 0.01 /4cust 23M 23M 0M 7 7 0 0.00 0.00 /hamradio 23M 23M 0M 244 244 0 0.00 0.01 /tcl 18M 18M 0M 222 222 0 0.00 0.01 /viseng 18M 18M 0M 15 15 0 0.00 0.00 /mac 14M 14M 0M 116 116 0 0.00 0.00 /avalon 13M 13M 0M 175 175 0 0.00 0.01 /tomahawk 13M 13M 0M 54 54 0 0.00 0.00 /python 12M 12M 0M 167 167 0 0.00 0.01 /algorithms 11M 11M 0M 1,730 1,730 0 0.00 0.07 /beos 11M 11M 0M 69 69 0 0.00 0.00 //.message 10M 10M 0M 7,215 7,215 0 0.00 0.29 /asme 9M 9M 0M 187 187 0 0.00 0.01 /internet 8M 8M 0M 242 242 0 0.00 0.01 /netlib 7M 7M 0M 123 123 0 0.00 0.00 /obi 6M 6M 0M 94 94 0 0.00 0.00 /MacSciTech 5M 5M 0M 17 17 0 0.00 0.00 /vim 5M 5M 0M 19 19 0 0.00 0.00 /png 3M 3M 0M 39 39 0 0.00 0.00 /sde 2M 2M 0M 9 9 0 0.00 0.00 /wcarchive.txt 1M 1M 0M 571 571 0 0.00 0.02 //UPLOADS.TXT 1M 1M 0M 639 639 0 0.00 0.03 /unix-c 1M 1M 0M 16 16 0 0.00 0.00 /README 1M 1M 0M 254 254 0 0.00 0.01 /slow.txt 813k 813k 0k 607 607 0 0.00 0.02 //README 429k 429k 0k 617 617 0 0.00 0.02 //archive-info 96k 96k 0k 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 /games_patches 68k 68k 0k 40 40 0 0.00 0.00 /mng 50k 50k 0k 28 28 0 0.00 0.00 /msg.toomany 22k 22k 0k 55 55 0 0.00 0.00 /mutt 10k 10k 0k 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 /msg.toomany.real 9k 9k 0k 25 25 0 0.00 0.00 //config.txt 6k 6k 0k 2 2 0 0.00 0.00 /configuration 3k 3k 0k 1 1 0 0.00 0.00 - -------------- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- ------- ------ ------ 86 archives 969,876M 969,876M 0M 2,522,598 2,522,598 0 ~100.0 ~100.0 (k) = 1,000 bytes (M) = 1,000,000 bytes =============================================================================== Yesterday Average (30 days) Delta - ------------- --------------------- --------------------- --------------------- Hits (FTP) 2,522,598 1,469,996 1,052,602 Hits (HTTP) 0 0 Hits (combo) 2,522,598 1,469,996 1,052,602 Bytes (FTP) 969,876,086,079 752,838,493,753 217,037,592,326 Bytes (HTTP) 0 0 Bytes (combo) 969,876,086,079 752,838,493,753 217,037,592,326 Past 7 Days Past 30 Days Since 26 Feb 1997 - ------------- --------------------- --------------------- --------------------- Hits (FTP) 11,027,534 44,099,884 562,429,691 Hits (HTTP) 0 0 154,476,821 Hits (combo) 11,027,534 44,099,884 716,906,522 Bytes (FTP) 5,348,720,123,645 22,585,154,812,591 261,846,494,661,275 Bytes (HTTP) 0 0 10,106,100,542,342 Bytes (combo) 5,348,720,123,645 22,585,154,812,591 271,952,595,203,517 ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 7:27: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C710B14D9F; Sun, 2 May 1999 07:27:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-63.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.63]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA11424; Sun, 2 May 1999 09:26:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (nospam.hiwaay.net [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA15723; Sun, 2 May 1999 09:26:14 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199905021426.JAA15723@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive In-reply-to: Message from David Greenman of "Sat, 01 May 1999 23:03:15 PDT." <199905020603.XAA27985@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 09:26:14 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman writes: > A new picture of the new wcarchive is now available at: > > ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.jpg Nice picture. But it needs an arrow pointing to which disk drive(s) the FreeBSD archives are kept. :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 8:20:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB2114EF8 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 08:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08123; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:20:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: David Greenman Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive In-Reply-To: <199905020603.XAA27985@implode.root.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 1 May 1999, David Greenman wrote: > A new picture of the new wcarchive is now available at: > > ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.jpg > > ...and an updated hardware description is available at: > > ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.txt So, if you're looking for a home for the *old* wcarchive, just send it to me and I'll find a use for it :). Anyhow, it looks very impressive. So will Micron now support FreeBSD, and run TV ad's with a picture of a Micron running FreeBSD? Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 8:25:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E1414EF8 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08137; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:25:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:25:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: David Greenman Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So I'd hate to see how it would shine if we ran it with the IOlite code that allows transfers with a single copy, and uses the same copy for the socket buffers while the date is queued. Has there been any discussion of bringing that into the source code base? The work was on 2.2, but would certainly be worthwhile for the big server stuff. I don't know what the license was (someone gave a talk on it at CMU a few weeks ago and I was extremely impressed). On Sun, 2 May 1999, Robert Watson wrote: > On Sat, 1 May 1999, David Greenman wrote: > > > A new picture of the new wcarchive is now available at: > > > > ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.jpg > > > > ...and an updated hardware description is available at: > > > > ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.txt > > So, if you're looking for a home for the *old* wcarchive, just send it to > me and I'll find a use for it :). > > Anyhow, it looks very impressive. So will Micron now support FreeBSD, and > run TV ad's with a picture of a Micron running FreeBSD? > > Robert N Watson > > robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ > PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 > > Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ > TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ > Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 9:42:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A22014D9E for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 09:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.200]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5DFA; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:42:52 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00432; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:43:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 18:43:34 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Kris Kennaway Subject: RE: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-May-99 Kris Kennaway wrote: > There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot > at http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting > selection of comments, the general mood seems to be a lot of miffed > Linux weenies that their OS can't compete in the high end. There's a lot > of pro-FreeBSD comments, but which tend to the aggressive side a bit. Yeah, there are a number of people who are willing to try FreeBSD for their own high powered servers. That's a Good Thing(tm) IMHO =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 10:26:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B27DE14E13 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:26:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: from iisc.ernet.in (iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.3]) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA30995; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:54:04 +0530 Received: from physics.iisc.ernet.in by iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id WAA06670; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:45:36 +0530 (GMT+0530) Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in by physics.iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id RAA17189; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:20:06 GMT Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:56:37 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot > > at http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting > > Yeah, there are a number of people who are willing to try FreeBSD for their > own high powered servers. > > That's a Good Thing(tm) IMHO =) I'm new on this list, and have only used FreeBSD for around 3 months. I was and still am a heavy linux user, but I am very impressed by FreeBSD and do my bit these days to encourage others to try it out. (I'm an ordinary user, not a hacker, though I do some administration.) The way to get people to try out FreeBSD is to bring out more such stories, and it seems to me that sites like slashdot and linuxtoday publish quite a lot of *BSD stuff. The sniping I see on this list about "linux weenies bashing BSD on Slashdot" seems quite misplaced -- it's true of both sides and most people ignore it. There are two ways you will *not* succeed in converting linux users: (a) by bashing linux. Most linux users are perfectly happy with the stability, usability, performance etc of their systems, and will not switch merely because linux can't run ftp.cdrom.com -- they don't need that kind of power anyway. If you tell people that FreeBSD is a great system, for these reasons, they will listen. If you merely tell them linux is a lousy system, they will not -- because they know it isn't. (b) by bashing the GPL. There was a businessweek article which observed that the GPL has never really been tested in the courts; by no means can it be construed as an anti-GPL article (it calls it "innovative", "effective", etc), but a response on this list chose to lambast the GPL as "obnoxious" etc, which is quite uncalled for. Linux users may be persuaded of FreeBSD's superiority in some things, but if they are asked to choose on the basis of licence, most of them will stick with linux... This is not the time to get into a rebuttal of that letter (which definitely I would call "obnoxious", a term I would use neither for the GPL nor for any other licence). GPL haters can rm -rf /usr/src/gnu and try rebuilding their system... (And why are so many businesses jumping on the "business-unfriendly" Linux/GNU bandwagon?) Of course, this list would express a lot of extreme opinions which will not make it out into the real world. Unfortunately, many of them do, and it makes the FreeBSD crowd sound like a bunch of whining losers -- which, in technical terms, they definitely are not. Grow up, advocates. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 10:48:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17FB814EED for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:48:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.55]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA13C; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:48:15 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00544; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:49:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:49:01 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Rahul Siddharthan Subject: RE: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, Kris Kennaway Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-May-99 Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > (b) by bashing the GPL. There was a businessweek article which > observed that the GPL has never really been tested in the courts; > by no means can it be construed as an anti-GPL article (it calls > it "innovative", "effective", etc), but a response on this list > chose to lambast the GPL as "obnoxious" etc, which is quite > uncalled for. Linux users may be persuaded of FreeBSD's > superiority in some things, but if they are asked to choose on > the basis of licence, most of them will stick with linux... > This is not the time to get into a rebuttal of that letter (which > definitely I would call "obnoxious", a term I would use neither > for the GPL nor for any other licence). GPL haters can rm -rf > /usr/src/gnu and try rebuilding their system... (And why are so > many businesses jumping on the "business-unfriendly" Linux/GNU > bandwagon?) Hmmm, the main difference between the GPL and the BDSL is that the BSD License allows for commercial use and is thus IMHO and of most others here more suitable for their activities as well as their corporate contacts... But fair is fair, both advocates tend to border on the brink of zealotry, but isn't that always the point in advocacy? Advocacy always assumes one product is better in a certain aspect than the other product... *shrug* I tend to like *BSD more for it's simpler license and less forced files down one's throat... I think I can dream the GPL by now... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 11: 6:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A0A14E2A for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:06:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: from iisc.ernet.in (iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.3]) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA32198; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:37:50 +0530 Received: from physics.iisc.ernet.in by iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id XAA07745; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:29:22 +0530 (GMT+0530) Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in by physics.iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id SAA17898; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:03:52 GMT Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 23:40:23 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, Kris Kennaway Subject: RE: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But fair is fair, both advocates tend to border on the brink of zealotry, > but isn't that always the point in advocacy? Advocacy always assumes one > product is better in a certain aspect than the other product... Fine when you're talking about the product. My point was: try to boost your product without putting down the other. (Linux advocates have the same problem in pushing linux over windows: if you badmouth windows, the typical happy windows user won't listen. Though the *unhappy* one probably will. Keep in mind that there are very few unhappy linux users, so the FreeBSD problem is much more difficult.) But to push this "my product is better than yours" thing to the licensing is surely going a bit too far... Historical note: the GPL was created by one Richard Stallman, who believes that any restrictions on software modification/redistribution is unethical. From that point of view, the GPL is the best solution and a phenomenally successful one. So to blast the GPL for being business-unfriendly just doesn't make sense. Besides, businesses do make money from GPL'd code -- Cygnus, Red Hat, etc, etc -- and Stallman himself is certainly all for it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 11:26:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC7114C40 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:26:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.197.55]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA134; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:26:20 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00588; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 20:27:07 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Rahul Siddharthan Subject: RE: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra Cc: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 02-May-99 Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >> But fair is fair, both advocates tend to border on the brink of >> zealotry, >> but isn't that always the point in advocacy? Advocacy always assumes one >> product is better in a certain aspect than the other product... > > Fine when you're talking about the product. My point was: > try to boost your product without putting down the other. (Linux > advocates have the same problem in pushing linux over windows: if > you badmouth windows, the typical happy windows user won't > listen. Though the *unhappy* one probably will. Keep in mind that > there are very few unhappy linux users, so the FreeBSD problem is > much more difficult.) Correct, but there's a couple of drawbacks on every advocacy solution... As far as we have been able to discern FreeBSD currently doesn't want to get the majority of the Linux users simply because of the support issues. Sure we are reponsive and carry one of the best mailinglists around, but there are multitudes of people using Linux who seem to think that using an OS doesn't require thinking... Call it elitism, I find it merely a good seperation of attitudes... Linux is more suited for beginning Unix users, but FreeBSD qualifies for it as well... *shrug* Is one of them both even worse than the other? They both kick a dozen other OS's arses... > But to push this "my product is better than yours" thing to the > licensing is surely going a bit too far... Is it? The GNU site would like us to think otherwise, they criticize the BSD License on a few points in order to make the reader prefer the GPL... Licenses are akin to products... Really... > Historical note: the GPL was created by one Richard Stallman, who > believes that any restrictions on software modification/redistribution > is unethical. Stallman is a twit... 'nough said... Fact proven time and again... Restrictions on software are a companies right... We all know that it works otherwise with Open Source, even better for a large number of projects... Some things just need to be proprietary in order to maintain vendor/market share... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 11:41:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (bonjour.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA32153D6 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:41:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-6-11.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.47.47]) by bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06555; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372C9BD8.5C24D091@confusion.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 14:39:20 -0400 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I Have to disagree with one key point here. Not to say that you can't make money on the GPL, or that it isnt successful in general, but I think it's fair to say it fails outright if you consider the goal to be preventing restrictions on modification/redistribution. The GPL uses a restriction on modification (must add the date modified, etc) and redistribution (must be GPL, anything derived must be GPL) in order to prevent these restrictions. It's like saying you need to disallow speeches against free speech in order to permit free speech. The idea is totally absurd. I'd argue that the BSD license does alot better, it says modify as much as you want, redistribute as much as you want, in any way you want, and all you need to do is tell others I was involved, and that if it does something bad I can't be blamed. If you consider the goal of the GPL to be to preserve the free redistributability (is that a word?) of a piece of software, then the GPL does just that. But let's not even kid our selves in pretending its unrestrictive. On a side note, lets try and convince the authors of some GPL software we use to rerelease it under the BSD license. How can they do that? There is one group that can make a non-GPL version of GPL software, that group being the copyright holder. They can break their own license, and the only one who could sue them would be themselves. :) > > > Historical note: the GPL was created by one Richard Stallman, who > believes that any restrictions on software > modification/redistribution is unethical. From that point of > view, the GPL is the best solution and a phenomenally successful > one. So to blast the GPL for being business-unfriendly just > doesn't make sense. Besides, businesses do make money from GPL'd > code -- Cygnus, Red Hat, etc, etc -- and Stallman himself is > certainly all for it. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 11:59: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3308D1558C for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:58:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: from iisc.ernet.in (iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.3]) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA00865; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:25:58 +0530 Received: from physics.iisc.ernet.in by iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id AAA08770; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:17:29 +0530 (GMT+0530) Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in by physics.iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id SAA18643; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:51:59 GMT Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 00:28:31 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Laurence Berland Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: <372C9BD8.5C24D091@confusion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > that if it does something bad I can't be blamed. If you consider the goal of > the GPL to be to preserve the free redistributability (is that a word?) of a > piece of software, then the GPL does just that. That is exactly the goal of the GPL. To put it another way, the BSD licence may give more freedom to the next programmer; but then, users all the way down the line below that can lose their freedom. The GPL's aim is to prevent that. > On a side note, lets try and convince the authors of some GPL software we use > to rerelease it under the BSD license. How can they do that? There is one > group that can make a non-GPL version of GPL software, that group being the > copyright holder. They can break their own license, and the only one who could > sue them would be themselves. :) Practical point: unless it's written by one or very few people, you'll never succeed. Most of the interesting and well-established programs contain contributions from 100s of people and they'll all have to agree to change the licence. That apart, I think the idea sucks anyway... This is getting way off track from my original post (which was, advocate FreeBSD but don't diss others) so I'll shut up now. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 12: 0:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741B4155BE for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:00:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11603; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:19:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:19:30 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 2 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > There's an article about the recent upgrade of ftp.cdrom.com on Slashdot > > > at http://slashdot.org/articles/99/05/01/0630216.shtml - interesting > > > > Yeah, there are a number of people who are willing to try FreeBSD for their > > own high powered servers. > > > > That's a Good Thing(tm) IMHO =) > > I'm new on this list, and have only used FreeBSD for around 3 > months. I was and still am a heavy linux user, but I am very > impressed by FreeBSD and do my bit these days to encourage others > to try it out. (I'm an ordinary user, not a hacker, though I do > some administration.) Welcome aboard. > The way to get people to try out FreeBSD is to bring out more > such stories, and it seems to me that sites like slashdot and > linuxtoday publish quite a lot of *BSD stuff. The sniping I see > on this list about "linux weenies bashing BSD on Slashdot" seems > quite misplaced -- it's true of both sides and most people > ignore it. Although this list is archived for public viewing, it is a forum for rabid FreeBSD fans such as myself. Things said here should sometimes be taken with quite a grain of salt. > There are two ways you will *not* succeed in converting linux > users: > (a) by bashing linux. Most linux users are perfectly happy with > the stability, usability, performance etc of their systems, and > will not switch merely because linux can't run ftp.cdrom.com -- > they don't need that kind of power anyway. If you tell people > that FreeBSD is a great system, for these reasons, they will > listen. If you merely tell them linux is a lousy system, they > will not -- because they know it isn't. > (b) by bashing the GPL. There was a businessweek article which > observed that the GPL has never really been tested in the courts; > by no means can it be construed as an anti-GPL article (it calls > it "innovative", "effective", etc), but a response on this list > chose to lambast the GPL as "obnoxious" etc, which is quite > uncalled for. Linux users may be persuaded of FreeBSD's > superiority in some things, but if they are asked to choose on > the basis of licence, most of them will stick with linux... > This is not the time to get into a rebuttal of that letter (which > definitely I would call "obnoxious", a term I would use neither > for the GPL nor for any other licence). GPL haters can rm -rf > /usr/src/gnu and try rebuilding their system... (And why are so > many businesses jumping on the "business-unfriendly" Linux/GNU > bandwagon?) GPL + Linux mention == publicity, nuff said... Although I must say that SCO's CEO's blatant flames against Linux & GNU look more like a desperate PR tactic, I hope he falls on his arrogant face. > Of course, this list would express a lot of extreme opinions > which will not make it out into the real world. Unfortunately, > many of them do, and it makes the FreeBSD crowd sound like a > bunch of whining losers -- which, in technical terms, they > definitely are not. Grow up, advocates. http://www.jwz.org/why-cooperation-with-rms-is-impossible.au *shudder* -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 12:24:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (bonjour.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662A514C05 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:24:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-6-11.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.47.47]) by bonjour.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15842; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372CA62F.B843DCEF@confusion.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 15:23:27 -0400 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > That is exactly the goal of the GPL. > To put it another way, the BSD licence may give more freedom to > the next programmer; but then, users all the way down the line > below that can lose their freedom. The GPL's aim is to prevent > that. Ok, but that's not what you said before. Overgeneralization is bad. > > > > On a side note, lets try and convince the authors of some GPL software we use > > to rerelease it under the BSD license. How can they do that? There is one > > group that can make a non-GPL version of GPL software, that group being the > > copyright holder. They can break their own license, and the only one who could > > sue them would be themselves. :) > > Practical point: unless it's written by one or very few people, you'll > never succeed. Most of the interesting and well-established > programs contain contributions from 100s of people and they'll > all have to agree to change the licence. That apart, I think the > idea sucks anyway... I don't think the idea necessarily sucks, the system does use some GNU stuff, and it wouldnt hurt FreeBSD if we could get more BSDL and less GPL, if nothing else but for consistency. Besides, it wouldnt require hundreds of people. I don't have to ask anyone who worked on it, all I need to ask is the copyright holder. Alot of people who work on an open source project don't copyright their portions, they give it to the project, which then copyrights it. -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 12:58:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBDB3153E2 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:58:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29773; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905021955.MAA29773@implode.root.com> To: Robert Watson Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 May 1999 11:25:09 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 12:55:48 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >So I'd hate to see how it would shine if we ran it with the IOlite code >that allows transfers with a single copy, and uses the same copy for the >socket buffers while the date is queued. Has there been any discussion of >bringing that into the source code base? The work was on 2.2, but would >certainly be worthwhile for the big server stuff. I don't know what the >license was (someone gave a talk on it at CMU a few weeks ago and I was >extremely impressed). Wcarchive uses "dg-ftpd", which uses the zero-copy sendfile() for sending files. The data is still touched during the checksum, however. The current machine has enough CPU to handle >200Mbps, and a lot more if I can get the hardware checksum working with the gigabit ether card. The bottleneck is the network connection and going to something faster is the only solution. IOlite, while interesting in principle, was nothing more than a proof of concept and unfortunately isn't something that we would want to include in FreeBSD. I spoke with the researcher at length about it. For this particular application, sendfile() is the most efficient way to get the zero-copy job done. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 13:12: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9896B1538E for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu) Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) Ident [ewayte] by pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D725340E; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 16:12:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Wayte To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: rich.morin@sunworld.com Subject: FreeBSD article in May issue of SunWorld Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the latest issue of SunWorld, Rich Morin has a nice 1500 word article on "why FreeBSD is the superior OS for him." Point your browser here: http://www.sunworld.com/swol-05-1999/swol-05-silicon.html My favorite quote from the article is in the Linux paragraph: "I just like the solid feeling I get from FreeBSD." My thoughts exactly. Eric Wayte, DBA Univ. of Central Florida ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 13:13:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257D114D49 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:13:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-6-11.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.47.47]) by sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21655; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372CB17A.21E4971A@confusion.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 16:11:39 -0400 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com Cc: Robert Watson , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive References: <199905021955.MAA29773@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dg-ftpd? That's not in the ports. Why not??? (or am I confused) David Greenman wrote:. > > Wcarchive uses "dg-ftpd", -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org > Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com > > T -- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 14:23:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8979155C9 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: from iisc.ernet.in (iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.3]) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id CAA03637; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:39:25 +0530 Received: from physics.iisc.ernet.in by iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id CAA11077; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:30:57 +0530 (GMT+0530) Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in by physics.iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id VAA18999; Sun, 2 May 1999 21:05:26 GMT Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 02:41:59 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Laurence Berland Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: <372CA62F.B843DCEF@confusion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just saw an article on licenses in Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org/199905/gpl.html (which was incidentally linked on linuxtoday so a lot of linux users will read it.) The writer is of course critical but sounds like he's trying hard to say a few nice things. However, my favourite quote is this. "But the fact that the GPL can infect code derived from other GPL'ed programs, as well as the fact that the output of some GPL'ed programs must also be GPL'ed, is unacceptable. In fact, it should be contested over its shaky sense of legality in these matters. I'm not aware of any court cases involving the GPL so far, so we have yet to see what will happen when such an issue arises. I can only hope that the courts will decide against the GPL's habit of infecting other code." This is old hat, as is the claim that the GPL "does not respect intellectual property". Let me make a case that it does respect intellectual property. (1) I write some code. This is my work and my intellectual property. (2) Therefore I am not obliged to let you use it at all. (3) However, I want people to use it and improve it; I just don't want them to hoard it and restrict it. (4) Therefore I license this source code, my intellectual property, under the terms of the GPL. That means you can use it and redistribute it but only under the GPL. (5) If you don't like that, of course you're free not to use the code at all. I really see absolutely nothing wrong with this position. Yes, you're free to make changes, but it was I who gave you that freedom, under a specific licence. If I hadn't let you see the source code, there wouldn't have been any changes to make. Therefore, if you distribute your add-ons, you must do that under my terms -- because they are add-ons, not a new and completely original work. Of course, you don't have to distribute your changes at all. But once you distribute them under the GPL, that is your decision, and the licence equally applies to the next It would be equally wrong to take a BSDL'd work, develop it further, and then GPL it. Legally it may be ok, but I think it's ethically wrong, and probably RMS would agree. The original licence should be respected. Remember that when the GPL was created, and almost equally today, the norm is not to allow re-use of source code at all. So a licence like the GPL which allows you to re-use source code under certain conditions, was and still is extraordinarily permissive. To me the extremists (socialists, communists, your choice of epithet normally thrown at RMS) seem to be not the FSF but the BSD crowd, who apparently think you should be free to do absolutely *anything* with someone else's source code except claim it as your own or sue the author... Which licence is better for businesses is a question I don't want to get into. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 15: 1: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC2814BCD for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:01:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00649; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05357; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 18:00:56 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Rahul Siddharthan Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra Cc: Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Laurence Berland Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since you keep going on about this... Well.. hmm.. seems the archives are a bit behind, so I'll just repost the message I sent earlier instead of giving you a URL to find it at: -------------------------------8<----------------------------------- On 16-Apr-99 unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > But in regards to the GPL, it seems like a fairly innocuous kinda thing. > I write some software, declare it to be GPL'd, and thus guaranteeing that > the source code shall remain available. It doesn't really limit me all > that much. And if I write a new version, I can opt to not release it > under the GPL, freeing me from its burdens should I decide that I want to > go commercial with it. Actually, (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but if you release version 1.0 under GPL, and use any of the 1.0 code in version 2.0 that you try to sell w/o the source, then anyone can sue you for the source code to version 2.0 because it would be a derivative of 1.0 and by the GPL that means the source to 2.0 would have to be GPL'd and thus freely available, which prevents you from selling it, for all intents and purposes. It gets much worse when you have a large propietary product, such as your own OS specific to your application, and you want to add drivers for a newer network card. You wouldn't be able to use GPL'd code because you would screw yourself. You'd have to release the source code to your propietary OS, which your competitors would gladly take from you and sink you. OTOH, such a company can safely use BSL'd code without worrying about having to release the source to their competitors. And let's face it, not all software is going to be free, we do have to eat somehow. So we can't kill all possibility of selling software. -------------------------------8<----------------------------------- On 02-May-99 Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > I just saw an article on licenses in Daemon News > http://www.daemonnews.org/199905/gpl.html > (which was incidentally linked on linuxtoday so a lot of linux > users will read it.) The writer is of course critical but sounds > like he's trying hard to say a few nice things. However, my > favourite quote is this. > > "But the fact that the GPL can infect code derived from other > GPL'ed programs, as well as the fact that the output of some > GPL'ed programs must also be GPL'ed, is unacceptable. In fact, it > should be contested over its shaky sense of legality in these > matters. I'm not aware of any court cases involving the GPL so > far, so we have yet to see what will happen when such an issue > arises. I can only hope that the courts will decide against the > GPL's habit of infecting other code." > > This is old hat, as is the claim that the GPL "does not respect > intellectual property". Let me make a case that it does respect > intellectual property. Yours but not somebody elses who only wants to use 1 small part of your code in their program. Instead, they are forced to reinvent the wheel to prevent their program from being GPL'd. > Remember that when the GPL was created, and almost equally today, > the norm is not to allow re-use of source code at all. So a > licence like the GPL which allows you to re-use source code under > certain conditions, was and still is extraordinarily permissive. > To me the extremists (socialists, communists, your choice of > epithet normally thrown at RMS) seem to be not the FSF but the > BSD crowd, who apparently think you should be free to do > absolutely *anything* with someone else's source code except > claim it as your own or sue the author... Note in the hypothetical situation in my first paragraph (which actually isn't hypothetical, but anyways) the GPL actually *prevents* code re-use. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 15: 7:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fosburgh.dyndns.org (Dorm-35842.RH.UH.EDU [129.7.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77FB614CCA for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:07:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wotan@fosburgh.dyndns.org) Received: from localhost (wotan@localhost) by fosburgh.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA97949; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:05:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from wotan@fosburgh.dyndns.org) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:05:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Fosburgh Reply-To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Laurence Berland , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 3 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > I just saw an article on licenses in Daemon News > http://www.daemonnews.org/199905/gpl.html > (which was incidentally linked on linuxtoday so a lot of linux > users will read it.) The writer is of course critical but sounds > like he's trying hard to say a few nice things. However, my > favourite quote is this. > > "But the fact that the GPL can infect code derived from other > GPL'ed programs, as well as the fact that the output of some > GPL'ed programs must also be GPL'ed, is unacceptable. In fact, it > should be contested over its shaky sense of legality in these > matters. I'm not aware of any court cases involving the GPL so > far, so we have yet to see what will happen when such an issue > arises. I can only hope that the courts will decide against the > GPL's habit of infecting other code." > > This is old hat, as is the claim that the GPL "does not respect > intellectual property". Let me make a case that it does respect > intellectual property. > > (1) I write some code. This is my work and my intellectual property. > (2) Therefore I am not obliged to let you use it at all. > (3) However, I want people to use it and improve it; I just don't > want them to hoard it and restrict it. > (4) Therefore I license this source code, my intellectual > property, under the terms of the GPL. That means you can use > it and redistribute it but only under the GPL. > (5) If you don't like that, of course you're free not to use the > code at all. > > I really see absolutely nothing wrong with this position. Yes, > you're free to make changes, but it was I who gave you that > freedom, under a specific licence. If I hadn't let you see the > source code, there wouldn't have been any changes to make. > Therefore, if you distribute your add-ons, you must do that under > my terms -- because they are add-ons, not a new and completely > original work. Of course, you don't have to distribute your > changes at all. But once you distribute them under the GPL, that > is your decision, and the licence equally applies to the next > > It would be equally wrong to take a BSDL'd work, develop it > further, and then GPL it. Legally it may be ok, but I think it's > ethically wrong, and probably RMS would agree. The original > licence should be respected. > > Remember that when the GPL was created, and almost equally today, > the norm is not to allow re-use of source code at all. So a > licence like the GPL which allows you to re-use source code under > certain conditions, was and still is extraordinarily permissive. > To me the extremists (socialists, communists, your choice of > epithet normally thrown at RMS) seem to be not the FSF but the > BSD crowd, who apparently think you should be free to do > absolutely *anything* with someone else's source code except > claim it as your own or sue the author... > > Which licence is better for businesses is a question I don't want > to get into. > Actually, no, and I am a laissez-faire capitalist. If you go to http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html and read what is on the page it says quite clearly (at least to me) that the FSF does not believe in the concept of software as intellectual property nor does it believe in the ownership of software. Furthermore, http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html, Stallman (and yes, as near as I can tell all of this is the official policy of FSF) states he believes he has to share his software. He further goes on to state that programmers should be *punished* if they choose not tp make their software free. There is an entire section where he goes on to state that placing controls on your own ideas really controls other people's lives. I wanted to provide just some examples of why the above argument is in error, without going into an involved discussion why the position FSF takes is completely wrong (no, I'm not afraid to say it). I simply do not believe this is the place to write an essay on philosophy. If you want to know a little better what I think, please feel free to visit http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498/computer/software/COPYRIGHT.html where I have a preamble explaining why I choose to use a BSD license. As to the argument that BSDers are more likely to be collectivists, well, to my knowledge *BSD has no such statement of philosophy, people may choose to license their software under a BSD license or they may not. FSF, as an official statement of policy, believes everyone *should* release their software under the terms of the GPL. I think I have already gone on long enough with this, so I will cut it off now before it does become a paper. I intend to remain quiet now, unless there is a reponse to this which I think requires me to say something back. Jonathan Fosburgh Geotechnician Snyder Oil Corporation Houston, TX Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498 Manager, FreeBSD Webring: http://www.geocities.com/vienna/1498/computer/freebsdring.html ICQ: 32742908 AIM: Namthorien To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 16:19:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76E415459 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: from iisc.ernet.in (iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.3]) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id EAA05274; Mon, 3 May 1999 04:07:04 +0530 Received: from physics.iisc.ernet.in by iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id DAA12035; Mon, 3 May 1999 03:58:36 +0530 (GMT+0530) Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in by physics.iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id WAA19119; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:33:06 GMT Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 04:09:39 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu Cc: Laurence Berland , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I agree that this is a pointless discussion on this list. But most discussions on this list seem pointless wrt the title "freebsd-advocacy". So let me go on a bit longer. > Actually, no, and I am a laissez-faire capitalist. If you go to > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html and read what is on the page it > says quite clearly (at least to me) that the FSF does not believe in the > concept of software as intellectual property nor does it believe in the > ownership of software. Furthermore, http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html, > Stallman (and yes, as near as I can tell all of this is the official policy > of FSF) states he believes he has to share his software. He further goes on > to state that programmers should be *punished* if they choose not tp make > their software free. There is an entire section where he goes on to state > that placing controls on your own ideas really controls other people's > lives. You are confusing the GPL with the GNU manifesto. The GPL talks a lot about how software should be free and its freedom should be protected, but makes only a passing reference to patents in its preamble. It does not talk about intellectual property. It is perfectly possible to disagree with Stallman's agenda but agree with him on the suitability of the GPL for free software. Linus Torvalds, the KDE project members, etc are not particular sympathizers of Stallman's more extreme views (the KDE page at one time had nasty anti-RMS links which they quickly toned down) but they all think the GPL is best for their purposes. Which is to write free code and make sure it's not hijacked by rich corporations, as much of X has been. To get back to my original thread: FreeBSD is terrific on its own merits, and deserves to be promoted (perhaps not among clueless newbies, but certainly among relative clueful ones). But what's visible outside is not the merits but the political arguments, which are often uninformed and just silly, like this Daemon News article (to see some reactions to that, check out http://linuxtoday.com/stories/5542_flat.html ) Such half-baked rabble-rousing articles will not help anybody. Stallman isn't as clueless as some people may think. The GPL doesn't reflect his full agenda for very good reasons: he *wanted* people to use it. The LGPL is even less representative of his views but he introduced that because he knew it would help free software in the long run. Note that while many people have suggested forcing Microsoft to open up their source code, Stallman is *not* one of them (though he'd certainly like to see it happen). His suggestions for remedies if Microsoft loses are the most rational and well-reasoned I've yet seen. (http://linuxtoday.com/stories/4999.html) He understands the real world very well, though he often finds it convenient to pretend he doesn't. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 16:58: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74ABA1508B for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (dialup-6-11.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.47.47]) by sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11065; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372CE5F6.9D9B0CBE@confusion.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:55:34 -0400 From: Laurence Berland Organization: B.R.A.T.T. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not getting involved with the rest of this debate, but want to clarify something about the way copyright law works. When I have the copyright on something, I do pretty much what I want with it, since it's mine. If you want to use it, I tell you what the conditions are on you using it. Those conditions go in license. I give you the right to use it if you follow those conditions. A license doesn't put me in any position, since the product is mine and I can do what I want with it. I haven't agreed to terms in exchange for use of my own code, so if I give you two choices of conditions (ie BSDL and GPL) then that's ok. Further, if I make one version, then upgrade it, then decide to add a new choice of terms to the distribution of this new version, that's ok. You can't sue me, since I haven't agreed to keep it GPL, you have. I can sue you if you breech your contract with me, but all my contract says is if u follow the terms I chose then you can use my software. > > > Actually, (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but if you release version 1.0 > under GPL, and use any of the 1.0 code in version 2.0 that you try to sell w/o > the source, then anyone can sue you for the source code to version 2.0 because > it would be a derivative of 1.0 and by the GPL that means the source to 2.0 > would have to be GPL'd and thus freely available, which prevents you from > selling it, for all intents and purposes. It gets much worse when you have a > large propietary product, such as your own OS specific to your application, > and you want to add drivers for a newer network card. You wouldn't be able to > use GPL'd code because you would screw yourself. You'd have to release the > source code to your propietary OS, which your competitors would gladly take > from you and sink you. OTOH, such a company can safely use BSL'd code without > worrying about having to release the source to their competitors. And let's > face it, not all software is going to be free, we do have to eat somehow. So > we can't kill all possibility of selling software. > > --- Laurence Berland, Stuyvesant HS Debate <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Windows 98: n. useless extension to a minor patch release for 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. http://stuy.debate.net icq #7434346 aol imer E1101 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 17:28:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F1314BD7 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:28:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29248; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:26:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <372CED17.7D488A3F@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 18:25:59 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Laurence Berland , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > I just saw an article on licenses in Daemon News Whatever gave you the idea this is an appropriate forum for preaching the religion of the GPL? Please take this opportunity to refect and determine if you have anything to say about advocating FreeBSD. We fully understand that you like the GPL. This is not an appropriate forum for discussing your appreciation of it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 17:36: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D06F14BD7 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17395; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:35:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd017373; Sun May 2 17:35:47 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15364; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:35:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905030035.RAA15364@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra To: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 00:35:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jef53313@bayou.uh.edu, stuyman@confusion.net, asmodai@wxs.nl, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: from "Rahul Siddharthan" at May 3, 99 04:09:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You are confusing the GPL with the GNU manifesto. The GPL is an instrumentality of the GNU Manifesto, and not a very good one, at that. A better instrumentality of the GNU Manifesto is the Cygnus eCOS license: http://www.cygnus.com/ecos/license.html Nevertheless, it is an instrumentality of the manifesto. > The GPL talks a lot about how software should be free and its > freedom should be protected, but makes only a passing reference > to patents in its preamble. The GPL actually talks about software liberty, not software freedom. This is a common misconception, and the misuse of the words "free" and "freedom" in the preamble perpetuates, apparently intentionally, this misconception. Probably to avoid the obvious connotations of "liberate", "liberated", "liberal", and "libertine". > It does not talk about intellectual property. It is perfectly > possible to disagree with Stallman's agenda but agree with him > on the suitability of the GPL for free software. You should be aware of clause 9 of the GPL: | 9. The Free Software Foundation may publish revised and/or new | versions of the General Public License from time to time. Such | new versions will be similar in spirit to the present version, | but may differ in detail to address new problems or concerns. | | Each version is given a distinguishing version number. If the | Program specifies a version number of this License which applies | to it and "any later version", you have the option of following | the terms and conditions either of that version or of any later | version published by the Free Software Foundation. If the | Program does not specify a version number of this License, you | may choose any version ever published by the Free Software | Foundation. AFAIK, this clause is in effect for most of the GPL'ed software you reference. You should be aware that there is currently a revision of the GPL in progress, according to reports published on slashdot.org. The claims are that the revised license will be more commercially tenable than the existing GPL, and that it will explicitly address the intellectual proporty issues. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 17:47:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FCC1567C for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:47:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29289; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <372CF223.9E86C8DB@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 18:47:31 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I started to make this a personal reply, but after re-reading the first comment in this utterance I decided it needed a more public airing. Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > I agree that this is a pointless discussion on this list. But > most discussions on this list seem pointless wrt the title > "freebsd-advocacy". So let me go on a bit longer. How could you possibly tell what the discussions on this list have or have not produced? You declare this from the lofty height of a couple days or weeks of participation? This is really galling coming from someone who's ONLY participation has been to advocate something many in this forum find foreign to our collective objectives. > You are confusing the GPL with the GNU manifesto. You seem to be confused that the two are seperable; they are NOT. The GPL is the implementation of the GNU manifesto. Please do us all a favor and shut up until you actually have some idea what you're talking about. When you do figure out what you're talking about, do it in some appropriate forum. Freebsd-Advocacy is *not* that forum. If you want to take a snapshot of FreeBSD and re-release as GPLBSD, you are entirely free to do that. Nobody in their right mind will assist you in this when they have access to FreeBSD as the same time, which does not dictate how they may use it. Many, perhaps even most of those who contribute to FreeBSD find the GPL to be counter-productive and socially unacceptable on many levels. Your preaching here is not only inappropriate, it is counter to what WE BELIEVE IN. The GPL is the implementation of the GNU manifesto, and FreeBSD is and always will remain under the FREE Berkeley-style license it is now distributed under because the BERKELEY LICENSE IS BETTER. The GPL ends up doing exactly what it purports to prevent: software hoarding. Since software ENCUMBERED with the GPL cannot be effectively used in commercial products, it ends up not being used in exactly the way it should be used. Imagine how difficult it would have been to create the Internet we have now if every vendor had implemented their own versions of SMTP, DNS, FTP, and even TCP/IP. The reason the Internet exists today is because brilliant contributors had the foresight to release their work under a license that ALLOWED it to be included in SunOS and HP-UX and AIX and even (shudder) VAX/VMS. Now, is that completely clear? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 18: 2:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D69315224 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:02:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23489; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:02:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd023473; Sun May 2 18:02:43 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA16077; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:02:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905030102.SAA16077@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) To: bright@rush.net (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 01:02:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in, asmodai@wxs.nl, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alfred Perlstein" at May 2, 99 02:19:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Although I must say that SCO's CEO's blatant flames against > Linux & GNU look more like a desperate PR tactic, I hope he falls > on his arrogant face. I first met Doug Michaels in person, and had the opportunity to have a long chat with him and Esther Dyson, back in 1988. The three of us talked for about four hours at the SCO Forum88, until the early morning. He is reasonable, level-headed, and personable. Unlike most of people I know, he also has Vision [the capital "V" is not a typo]. I believe the so-called "flames" to be rational, well reasoned arguments about why free software that comes from anything larger than a small team working in isolation generally fails to be able to do anything revolutionary, only evolutionary. The statements about the state of SMP in Linux (which apply equally well to the state of SMP in FreeBSD) relative to SVR4 are well founded, from my experience as a former employee of the former USL in the innards of a high granularity SMP kernel, and on general architectural principles. Volunteer projects attract "cowboys", not team players. The larger the project, the more balkanization into territories, and the sooner the cowboys start plinking pot-shots at each other over rights to the watering hole bordering their territories. Occasionally, a range war starts, and you get a schism. Cathedrals are large public works; like the Apollo missions, they require a disciplined group of individuals to build. Such projects can not tolerate even the spectre of schism. Volunteer projects, by their nature, lack this discipline. Volunteers do not build mass transit systems, and volunteers do not build superconducting suppercolliders. SVR4 is a cathedral. CORBA is a cathedral. BSD 4.4 is a cathedral. Linux and FreeBSD are *not* cathedrals. As Doug pointed out in the article referred to, there are merits to having a roadmap, a clearly stated long term vision, and an organization capable of forcefully executing that vision: only with these, can you build a cathedral. It's not a cardinal sin to not build a cathedral; but when you are not building a cathedral, and somone says "Hey, you're not building a cathedral", it's unfair to characterize the bald statement of fact as "blatant flames" or "a desperate PR tactic". Instead, take the statement at face value: as an observed truth; if you don't like what it says about you personnally, or what you choose to spend your free time on, then it's probably time for some introspection. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 18:11:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smarter.than.nu (lal-99-91.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.99.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506C915AED for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:11:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA93429; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:11:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 18:11:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 3 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > It would be equally wrong to take a BSDL'd work, develop it > further, and then GPL it. Legally it may be ok, but I think it's > ethically wrong, and probably RMS would agree. The original > licence should be respected. You're missing the point of the BSD license. Usually when someone BSD-licenses code, they are indicating that they don't care what you do with the code, so long as you give credit where credit is due. The intent is that others be able to use your code without worrying about jumping through hoops or having their own intellectual property rights eroded. My personal feeling on software licensing is that if I'm going to release my source, I'm going to do so in the least restrictive manner practical (just placing it in the public domain invites a whole other set of issues), and that means not forcing obligations on those who would use it. I release software to benefit the whole of the computing community, not just the "free software" folks. If someone finds my code useful in a commercial product, more power to 'em. Sure, it'd be nice if they'd sent me some cash or offer me a good job, but just the fact that they used some of my code instead of possibly hastily done and shoddy in-house gives me a warm fuzzy feeling -- we're one step closer to a world where quality actually matters in mass-market software. Had I GPLed it insted, I wouldn't have done anyone a favor. Open-source developers wouldn't have gained anything, and commercial devlopers would have lost. As far as I can see, GPLing software instead of releasing it without strings attached does nothing but slow the progress of commercial products which are interested in the functionality the code provides. And I don't see much reason beyond spite to do that. -- Brian Buchanan brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU -------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org daemon(n): 1. an attendant power or spirit : GENIUS 2. the cute little mascot of the FreeBSD operating system To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 18:13:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from satsuma.mail.easynet.net (satsuma.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF6A2156A4 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from c.raven@ukonline.co.uk) Received: (qmail 13439 invoked from network); 3 May 1999 01:13:29 -0000 Received: from tnt-6-74.easynet.co.uk (HELO ukonline.co.uk) (195.40.201.74) by satsuma.mail.easynet.net with SMTP; 3 May 1999 01:13:29 -0000 Message-ID: <372CF8A9.73B53066@ukonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 02:15:21 +0100 From: Christopher Raven Organization: CIAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chris@calldei.com Cc: Alfred Perlstein , David Greenman , Greg Lehey , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article References: <199905020515.WAA27861@implode.root.com> <19990502010000.D1246@holly.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Costello wrote: > On Sun, May 2, 1999, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Not knowing if you even run X, or have libs installed on ftp.cdrom.com... > > put perhaps even a screen-shot of your desktop with top, systat, iostat, > > netstat running in several different Xterms..... running on ftp.cdrom.com, > > we could start the "FreeBSD desktops page". > > David's too busy playing with the new Quake III demo on > it to bother. > Technically speaking, OSS support informed me that FreeBSD is incapable of supporting the kind of sound format used by Quake. So really there's little point to using FreeBSD as a Quake client to begin with, server yes - client no. > > Seriously - why would it run X? Doesn't that strike you as a > bad idea, at least slightly? > > > > > cool icons are one thing, but "the power to serve" shown via these > > utilities would be awesome... > > > > please please please please... :) > > > > (it would hopefully find itself somewhere on advocacy.freebsd.org)... > > > > -Alfred > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > -- > Chris Costello > Choose variable names that will not be confused. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 18:19:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B0AC159F2 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:19:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27693; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd027641; Sun May 2 18:19:30 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA16768; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:19:29 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905030119.SAA16768@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra To: brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Brian W. Buchanan) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 01:19:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brian W. Buchanan" at May 2, 99 06:11:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It would be equally wrong to take a BSDL'd work, develop it > > further, and then GPL it. Legally it may be ok, but I think it's > > ethically wrong, and probably RMS would agree. The original > > licence should be respected. > > You're missing the point of the BSD license. Usually when someone > BSD-licenses code, they are indicating that they don't care what you do > with the code, so long as you give credit where credit is due. The intent > is that others be able to use your code without worrying about jumping > through hoops or having their own intellectual property rights eroded. Besides which, the GPL specifically prohibits additional conditions (other than itself) on the terms of distribution. E.g., you can't take code with an existing claim cresit clause, as in the UCB License, and GPL it -- because of the GPL. I expect that the new license will remove this restriction, so that they can drag all of FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD sources into the GNU Hurd... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 18:53:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from aeolus.conio.net (ci221559-a.grnvle1.sc.home.com [24.4.122.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE087156B9 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@conio.net) Received: (qmail 51838 invoked by uid 1001); 3 May 1999 02:02:09 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 May 1999 02:02:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:02:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Stephenson X-Sender: sam@aeolus To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: New splash screen Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG After reading all the posts about splash screens I decided to make one myself. I don't use it, but someone else might; it'd be nice if it were on the advocacy site as well. The image can be found here: http://www.conio.net/~sam/sam.bmp --Sam Stephenson sam@conio.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 19:19: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84DE314DDA for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24319; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02088; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:18:58 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Sam Stephenson Subject: RE: New splash screen Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-May-99 Sam Stephenson wrote: > After reading all the posts about splash screens I decided to make one > myself. I don't use it, but someone else might; it'd be nice if it were on > the advocacy site as well. > > The image can be found here: > http://www.conio.net/~sam/sam.bmp > > --Sam Stephenson > sam@conio.net I put it on my site at http://www.baldwin.cx/splash. It'd be nice if Jim or Rob got back to me about updating the advocacy.freebsd.org site. --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 19:35:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7486C15374 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id MAA20129; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:05:26 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA31266; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:05:59 +0930 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:05:58 +0930 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Terry Lambert Cc: Alfred Perlstein , rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in, asmodai@wxs.nl, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: <199905030102.SAA16077@usr05.primenet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 3 May 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > and volunteers do not build superconducting suppercolliders. Is that some new technology for heating TV dinners in sub-picosecond time? :-) Kris "Macrowave" K. ----- "That suit's sharper than a page of Oscar Wilde witticisms that's been rolled up into a point, sprinkled with lemon juice and jabbed into someone's eye" "Wow, That's sharp!" - Rimmer and the Cat, _Red Dwarf_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun May 2 20:54:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (dyn1-tnt9-35.chicago.il.ameritech.net [199.179.170.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C720C1539B for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:54:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@stox.sa.enteract.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.stox.sa.enteract.com [127.0.0.1]) by m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA49549; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:53:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:53:54 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" Reply-To: stox@enteract.com To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Terry Lambert , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 3 May 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > and volunteers do not build superconducting suppercolliders. > > Is that some new technology for heating TV dinners in sub-picosecond time? > > :-) ROTFLMAO!!! I hope you guys don't mind if I borrow this for work tomorrow. BTW, the Main Injector can baste a turkey in a femtosecond. :-) -Ken Stox stox@imagescape.com stox@fnal.gov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 1: 6: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4363156BD for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 01:05:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.152.128]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990503080731.BYQQ7099562.mta2-rme@wocker> for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:07:31 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 20:05:30 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Why is Linux Successful? - An Opinion. Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990503080731.BYQQ7099562.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have received permission from the author of this article to publish it on my website. This article was first published at UniForum NZ 99 held in Rotorua, New Zealand 13-17 April 1999. It makes for interesting reading. Some bits are quite funny. Regardless of what people think, I'm sure it will make for interesting dicussion. I've submitted it to slashdot. Before you consider flaming, read the article. Enjoy. http://www.freebsddiary.org/freebsd/linux.htm -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.FreeBSDDiary.org/freebsd/ NZ FreeBSD User Group - http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ The Racing System - http://www.racingsystem.com/racingsystem.htm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 2: 4:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3858F15BE0 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02206; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905030901.CAA02206@implode.root.com> To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Linux Successful? - An Opinion. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 May 1999 20:05:30 +1200." <19990503080731.BYQQ7099562.mta2-rme@wocker> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 02:01:54 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I have received permission from the author of this article to publish it >on my website. This article was first published at UniForum NZ 99 held in >Rotorua, New Zealand 13-17 April 1999. It makes for interesting reading. >Some bits are quite funny. > >Regardless of what people think, I'm sure it will make for interesting >dicussion. > >I've submitted it to slashdot. > >Before you consider flaming, read the article. > >Enjoy. > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/freebsd/linux.htm A heap of untruths and exaggerations. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 3:13: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D6C150DA for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 03:12:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:10:51 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: dg@root.com, junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Why is Linux Successful? - An Opinion. Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:10:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: David Greenman [mailto:dg@root.com] > Sent: 03 May 1999 10:02 > To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Why is Linux Successful? - An Opinion. > > > >I have received permission from the author of this article > to publish it > >on my website. This article was first published at UniForum > NZ 99 held in > >Rotorua, New Zealand 13-17 April 1999. It makes for > interesting reading. > >Some bits are quite funny. > > > >Regardless of what people think, I'm sure it will make for > interesting > >dicussion. > > > >I've submitted it to slashdot. > > > >Before you consider flaming, read the article. > > > >Enjoy. > > > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/freebsd/linux.htm > > A heap of untruths and exaggerations. Like what specifically, there are some inaccuracies in there but I don't think it's deliberately misleading, he just doesn't seem to have the precise information on BSD that an insider would know about. Paul Richards To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 3:48:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BE614E6B for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 03:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27784; Mon, 3 May 1999 03:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Linux Successful? - An Opinion. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 May 1999 20:05:30 +1200." <19990503080731.BYQQ7099562.mta2-rme@wocker> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 03:48:17 -0700 Message-ID: <27780.925728497@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually, this article is only reasonably written and very poorly (minimally) researched. I can only hope that it's not too widely cited since it also draws a number of conclusions from such minimal research and that's less forgivable than weak prose. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 8:30:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0524014D5E for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:30:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24090; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:30:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id KAA28291; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:30:14 -0500 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id KAA09442; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:30:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:30:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199905031530.KAA09442@free.pcs> To: dg@root.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-advocacy In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: > IOlite, while interesting in principle, was nothing more than a proof of >concept and unfortunately isn't something that we would want to include in >FreeBSD. I spoke with the researcher at length about it. For this particular Could you elaborate a little about that? We just had Vijay over here to give a talk about it, and while interesting, it seemed a little limited. In particular, the immutable buffers would seem to preclude building data up in pieces for transmission, and they "cop'ed out" by still using normal mbufs for small data transfers. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 8:57: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (unknown [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE4714F4F for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:56:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01260; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:56:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <372DC738.D316BCAC@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:56:40 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: dg@root.com, junkmale@xtra.co.nz, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is Linux Successful? - An Opinion. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG paul@originative.co.uk wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Greenman [mailto:dg@root.com] > > Sent: 03 May 1999 10:02 > > To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz > > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: Why is Linux Successful? - An Opinion. > > > > > > >I have received permission from the author of this article > > to publish it > > >on my website. This article was first published at UniForum > > NZ 99 held in > > >Rotorua, New Zealand 13-17 April 1999. It makes for > > interesting reading. > > >Some bits are quite funny. > > > > > >Regardless of what people think, I'm sure it will make for > > interesting > > >dicussion. > > > > > >I've submitted it to slashdot. > > > > > >Before you consider flaming, read the article. > > > > > >Enjoy. > > > > > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/freebsd/linux.htm > > > > A heap of untruths and exaggerations. > > Like what specifically, there are some inaccuracies in there but I don't > think it's deliberately misleading, he just doesn't seem to have the precise > information on BSD that an insider would know about. Many of the untruths are about Linux, not FreeBSD. The idea that anyone can put code into Linux, for instance. Go back and read the interview with Alan Cox at Linux Weekly News, where he admits one of the gating factors for getting 2.2 out the door were long gaps where Linus was not available to commit patches. So, in order of who can ACTUALLY add code, we have FreeBSD with ~200 committers (the core team isn't the only body that can commit code, they're the reviewers and arbiters) and Linux with 1. Which is more likely to get bottlenecked during heavy crunches? Which is glacial at getting releases out? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 10:19:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81B8B14C32 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:19:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA19881; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:19:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:19:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: dg@root.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive In-Reply-To: <199905031530.KAA09442@free.pcs> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 3 May 1999, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > In article you write: > > IOlite, while interesting in principle, was nothing more than a proof of > >concept and unfortunately isn't something that we would want to include in > >FreeBSD. I spoke with the researcher at length about it. For this particular > > Could you elaborate a little about that? We just had Vijay over here > to give a talk about it, and while interesting, it seemed a little limited. > In particular, the immutable buffers would seem to preclude building data > up in pieces for transmission, and they "cop'ed out" by still using normal > mbufs for small data transfers. From his description at CMU, it looked like you could easily create "aggregates" of data from files and other sources. His example to us was that each outgoing HTTP connection shipping a file might have a different header, but that we want to use the same buffers where possible for the file itself. Not having looked at their code, I'm only going on what he said, but it sounded like they had a flexible API for manipulating aggregates of these immutable buffers, which handles a lot of the cases we're concerned about. He didn't mention the copy out for using mbufs to us, but given the page-wise behavior they describe, that makes sense (i.e., the use of virtual memory page permissions to guarantee immutability of sets of buffers stored in those pages). Their performance results were very impressive. Does sendfile() use the same socket buffer storage for all copies of an outgoing file? Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37 ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1 Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ Safeport Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 10:34: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EDF815484 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:33:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id TAA42763; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:33:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des) To: Christopher Raven Cc: chris@calldei.com, Alfred Perlstein , David Greenman , Greg Lehey , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article References: <199905020515.WAA27861@implode.root.com> <19990502010000.D1246@holly.dyndns.org> <372CF8A9.73B53066@ukonline.co.uk> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 03 May 1999 19:33:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: Christopher Raven's message of "Mon, 03 May 1999 02:15:21 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Christopher Raven writes: > Technically speaking, OSS support informed me that FreeBSD is > incapable of supporting the kind of sound format used by Quake. So > really there's little point to using FreeBSD as a Quake client to > begin with, server yes - client no. Oh? That must mean the following web page is a fraud: (BTW, CyberNet are the guys who make NetMax, aka FreeBSD on steroids with a point-and-click admin interface) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 10:40:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D7B153DF for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4C23A2EE1A; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1013 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 10:40:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Inforseek software Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everyone It seems that infoseek is now selling it's search software for most Nix's except, you guest it, FreeBSD. Now they do have a Linux port, but they also have a "I would like infosearch for this software" request form. It is a simple form and if you have any interest in it at all, I urge all of you to= go to http://software.infoseek.com and request FreeBSD. Thanks Nicole |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 13:18:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCC014E65; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03852; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905032016.NAA03852@implode.root.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: wcarchive From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:16:24 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FYI, Micron has made info on the NetFRAME 9201 server (what wcarchive is made from) available on their web site at: http://www.micronpc.com/web/walnutcreek.html -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 13:37:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA36C14C0F; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:37:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.144]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA3666; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:37:01 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02067; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:37:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199905032016.NAA03852@implode.root.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 22:37:52 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: David Greenman Subject: RE: wcarchive Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-May-99 David Greenman wrote: > FYI, Micron has made info on the NetFRAME 9201 server (what wcarchive > is > made from) available on their web site at: > > http://www.micronpc.com/web/walnutcreek.html Too bad they only mention Novell and NT as NOS's, I mean, they could at least brag about wcarchive and FreeBSD... Or I must have missed that part on the site... The URL links through to the commercial details... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 13:40:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5765714C20; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04004; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905032037.NAA04004@implode.root.com> To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wcarchive In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 May 1999 22:37:52 +0200." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:37:56 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On 03-May-99 David Greenman wrote: >> FYI, Micron has made info on the NetFRAME 9201 server (what wcarchive >> is >> made from) available on their web site at: >> >> http://www.micronpc.com/web/walnutcreek.html > >Too bad they only mention Novell and NT as NOS's, I mean, they could at >least brag about wcarchive and FreeBSD... > >Or I must have missed that part on the site... > >The URL links through to the commercial details... This is all still very new. There are also problems with using the machine's onboard SCSI, so I'm not sure we're quite ready to say that FreeBSD is fully supported on it. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 13:49:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5503014C20; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.144]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5A1A; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:49:26 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02195; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:50:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199905032037.NAA04004@implode.root.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 22:50:16 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: David Greenman Subject: Re: wcarchive Cc: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-May-99 David Greenman wrote: > This is all still very new. There are also problems with using the > machine's onboard SCSI, so I'm not sure we're quite ready to say that > FreeBSD is fully supported on it. Well, supported or not, the thing does obscene amounts of data transferring =) *mumble, I need this RAID controller to work for those Dell's* --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 15:22:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15C7814F86 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA023784821; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:07:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:07:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 2 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > uncalled for. Linux users may be persuaded of FreeBSD's > superiority in some things, but if they are asked to choose on > the basis of licence, most of them will stick with linux... Only because they've been brainwashed with loud "free the code!" battle cries. I can't tell you how many projects that I've done have used BSD licensed code OVER a similar GNU licensed product, and then have parts of those products make it into released parts of ours. Actually, I can tell you, but I don't have to because of the license that I used. > for the GPL nor for any other licence). GPL haters can rm -rf > /usr/src/gnu and try rebuilding their system... (And why are so > many businesses jumping on the "business-unfriendly" Linux/GNU > bandwagon?) Ignorance. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 15:23:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F616154A4 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA023894961; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:09:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: RE: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 2 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Historical note: the GPL was created by one Richard Stallman, who > believes that any restrictions on software > modification/redistribution is unethical. From that point of > view, the GPL is the best solution and a phenomenally successful > one. So to blast the GPL for being business-unfriendly just > doesn't make sense. Besides, businesses do make money from GPL'd > code -- Cygnus, Red Hat, etc, etc -- and Stallman himself is > certainly all for it. Thanks for the history lesson. The reason that Stallman is happy is because he gets all the code back that people make changes to and that they're required to do so. How many companies do you think want to dedicate manhours to a project that has to be released to the general public. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 16: 3:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D122B14E3B; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA23264; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA17686; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:03:08 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn3.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA08597; Mon, 3 May 99 16:03:05 PDT Message-Id: <372E2B29.FD51A457@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 17:03:05 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: dg@root.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wcarchive References: <199905032016.NAA03852@implode.root.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Greenman wrote: > > FYI, Micron has made info on the NetFRAME 9201 server (what wcarchive is > made from) available on their web site at: > > http://www.micronpc.com/web/walnutcreek.html Cool! And great work, as usual, DG. Now can we get them to add a FreeBSD plug under "operating systems"???? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 16: 5:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701ED15306 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: from iisc.ernet.in (iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.3]) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id EAA32654; Tue, 4 May 1999 04:37:06 +0530 Received: from physics.iisc.ernet.in by iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id LAA23579; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:11:15 +0530 (GMT+0530) Received: from sys3.physics.iisc.ernet.in by physics.iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id FAA23438; Mon, 3 May 1999 05:45:13 GMT Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:28:39 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: <372CF223.9E86C8DB@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Let me make a couple of things clear: (a) I'm guilty of going on too long about the GPL, sorry about that. (b) My intention was not to discuss the merits of the GPL, and certainly not to suggest that BSD switch to GPL. Please re-read my first post if you don't believe this. I can't believe the sort of "advocacy" that goes on sometimes. I fully appreciate someone's comment that you'll find extreme opinions expressed on the list. The things is, you find the same opinions expressed outside. At the same time you find extremely reasonable and balanced articles like Jordan Hubbard's in Freshmeat some time back. I originally started reading the archives to find out what you chaps "really" think... As I said, I do my bit to encourage use of FreeBSD, but I can't go on an anti-GPL binge while doing so. That's why I raised the issue. I realize now that logic is not what is involved here. Issue closed, from my side at least. On Sun, 2 May 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > I started to make this a personal reply, but after re-reading the first > comment in this utterance I decided it needed a more public airing. > > Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > > I agree that this is a pointless discussion on this list. But > > most discussions on this list seem pointless wrt the title > > "freebsd-advocacy". So let me go on a bit longer. > > How could you possibly tell what the discussions on this list have or > have not produced? You declare this from the lofty height of a couple > days or weeks of participation? > > This is really galling coming from someone who's ONLY participation > has been to advocate something many in this forum find foreign to our > collective objectives. > > > You are confusing the GPL with the GNU manifesto. > > You seem to be confused that the two are seperable; they are NOT. The > GPL is the implementation of the GNU manifesto. > > Please do us all a favor and shut up until you actually have some idea > what you're talking about. When you do figure out what you're talking > about, do it in some appropriate forum. Freebsd-Advocacy is *not* that > forum. > > > If you want to take a snapshot of FreeBSD and re-release as GPLBSD, > you are entirely free to do that. Nobody in their right mind will > assist you in this when they have access to FreeBSD as the same time, > which does not dictate how they may use it. Many, perhaps even most > of those who contribute to FreeBSD find the GPL to be counter-productive > and socially unacceptable on many levels. Your preaching here is not > only inappropriate, it is counter to what WE BELIEVE IN. The GPL is > the implementation of the GNU manifesto, and FreeBSD is and always will > remain under the FREE Berkeley-style license it is now distributed > under because the BERKELEY LICENSE IS BETTER. > > The GPL ends up doing exactly what it purports to prevent: software > hoarding. Since software ENCUMBERED with the GPL cannot be effectively > used in commercial products, it ends up not being used in exactly the > way it should be used. Imagine how difficult it would have been to > create the Internet we have now if every vendor had implemented their > own versions of SMTP, DNS, FTP, and even TCP/IP. The reason the > Internet exists today is because brilliant contributors had the > foresight to release their work under a license that ALLOWED it to > be included in SunOS and HP-UX and AIX and even (shudder) VAX/VMS. > > Now, is that completely clear? > > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 19: 9:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB8414E7B for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:09:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id TAA25187; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id TAA02226; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:07:16 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn3.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA17470; Mon, 3 May 99 19:07:13 PDT Message-Id: <372E5626.FB7F027@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 20:06:30 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since you insist on trying to get in the parting shot, I'll include the advocacy list on this right along with you. Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > Let me make a couple of things clear: > (a) I'm guilty of going on too long about the GPL, sorry about > that. > (b) My intention was not to discuss the merits of the GPL, > and certainly not to suggest that BSD switch to GPL. > Please re-read my first post if you don't believe this. I didn't respond to your first post, because I found nothing of note in it. I responded to your accusation that the members of the freebsd-advocacy mailing list hate the GPL because we don't understand it, a group attack that was both unwarranted and untrue. > I can't believe the sort of "advocacy" that goes on sometimes. I You seem to misunderstand the purpose of the advocacy list. This is not a place for "outsiders" to come get some advocacy, it is a place for those who advocate FreeBSD to discuss what is going on in the world, and to formulate replies. The replies that are generated are then posted in other forums, such as Daemon News, FreeBSD 'zine, the FreeBSD web pages, etc. > fully appreciate someone's comment that you'll find extreme > opinions expressed on the list. The things is, you find the same > opinions expressed outside. At the same time you find extremely > reasonable and balanced articles like Jordan Hubbard's in > Freshmeat some time back. I originally started reading the > archives to find out what you chaps "really" think... If you think Jordan is the voice of reason here, you really need to go back and read the archives. ;^) The discussions you see here are the back-and-forth of a working group trying to reach a consensus. Without input from all sides of an argument, no reasonable consensus can be reached. There are several here, myself included, who often choose a side that has not been argued for and argue that point just to be sure the topic gets completely covered. I've seen Terry Lambert and Sue Blake do this as well. Again, I'd like to impress upon you that from your limited reading of this list, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND the dynamics of it. And if you think this little discussion about the GPL was heated, you certainly aren't tough enough to play in this ballpark. This was MILD compared to some of the flame-a-thons kicked off in the past. Those who hold their convictions so lightly... > As I said, I do my bit to encourage use of FreeBSD, but I can't > go on an anti-GPL binge while doing so. That's why I raised the I agree with you on every point above. I dislike the GPL quite a bit more than you do, but it is a fact of life, and railing against it does nothing to promote FreeBSD as a system or as a community. > issue. I realize now that logic is not what is involved here. Now you have to go and ruin a nice little message with yet another ad-hominem attack like that. If you're going to be able to effectively advocate anything, you've just got to get over that habit. When asked to compare the GPL and Berkeley-style licenses, I (and most FreeBSD users) will fall squarely on the side of the Berkeley license. That is tangential to FreeBSD the system, but very near and dear to "FreeBSD the Community." The choices made are perfectly logical; logic is exactly what is involved. Your snotty little remarks certainly don't help your argument, even when you're not trying to make one! > Issue closed, from my side at least. Agreed, I'll stop railing at you if you'll stop calling me names. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 19:39:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smyk.apk.net (smyk.apk.net [207.54.158.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACFD15766 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:39:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ipswitch@apk.net) Received: from CARBON (stuart.apk.net [207.54.148.235]) by smyk.apk.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/apk.981124) with SMTP id WAA10843 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:30:52 -0400 (EDT) From: ipswitch@apk.net (Stuart Krivis) To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 02:30:54 GMT Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc. Reply-To: ipswitch@apk.net Message-ID: <37315ace.13326101@mail.apk.net> References: <199905020603.XAA27985@implode.root.com> In-Reply-To: <199905020603.XAA27985@implode.root.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 01 May 1999 23:03:15 -0700, you wrote: > ...and an updated hardware description is available at: > >ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.txt > >-DG I didn't know that FreeBSD supported the DAC960 HAs. I've got two of them sitting around and now maybe this gives me some ideas.... :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 19:41:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailfw1.ford.com (mailfw1.ford.com [136.1.1.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C8D3A15766 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:41:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from boconno6@ford.com) Received: by mailfw1.ford.com id WAA11683 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for advocacy@freebsd.org); Mon, 3 May 1999 22:40:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199905040240.WAA11683@mailfw1.ford.com> Received: by mailfw1.ford.com (Internal Mail Agent-2); Mon, 3 May 1999 22:40:51 -0400 Organization: Ford Motor Company of Australia Limited. ACN 004 116 223 Received: by mailfw1.ford.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Mon, 3 May 1999 22:40:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:40:42 +1000 From: "Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor" To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: www.userfriendly.org cartoons Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Probably old news but Its the first time I've seen it http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html through to http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990327.html cute boc -- ________________________________________________________________________________ Brian O'Connor SGI Telephone: 03 9834 8200 Consultant SGI Facsimile: 03 9882 8030 Silicon Graphics Pty Ltd SGI Email: briano@melbourne.sgi.com 357 Camberwell Road Ford Email: boconno6@ford.com Camberwell Victoria 3124 Ford Telephone: 03 93597848 AUSTRALIA http://www.sgi.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 19:42: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4E415766 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05328; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905040239.TAA05328@implode.root.com> To: ipswitch@apk.net Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new picture of wcarchive In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 May 1999 02:30:54 GMT." <37315ace.13326101@mail.apk.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 19:39:08 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Sat, 01 May 1999 23:03:15 -0700, you wrote: > >> ...and an updated hardware description is available at: >> >>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.txt >> >>-DG > > >I didn't know that FreeBSD supported the DAC960 HAs. > >I've got two of them sitting around and now maybe this gives me some >ideas.... :-) DAC960SXI, which is an exernal SCSI-to-SCSI RAID controller. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 19:47:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw1.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BBA1578A for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:47:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-16-74.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.16.74]) by mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21349; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:47:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10766; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:48:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:48:27 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: "Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: www.userfriendly.org cartoons Message-ID: <19990503214824.C10291@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <199905040240.WAA11683@mailfw1.ford.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: <199905040240.WAA11683@mailfw1.ford.com>; from Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor on Tue, May 04, 1999 at 12:40:42PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 3, 1999, Brian O'Connor. (CF583173) HO 2nd Floor wrote: > Probably old news but Its the first time I've seen it > > > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html > through to > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990327.html http://www.freebsd.org/news/press.html > > > cute > > boc > -- > ________________________________________________________________________________ > > Brian O'Connor SGI Telephone: 03 9834 8200 > Consultant SGI Facsimile: 03 9882 8030 > Silicon Graphics Pty Ltd SGI Email: briano@melbourne.sgi.com > 357 Camberwell Road Ford Email: boconno6@ford.com > Camberwell Victoria 3124 Ford Telephone: 03 93597848 > AUSTRALIA http://www.sgi.com.au > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello Spelling checkers at maximum! Fire! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 20:15:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFFE15766; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:15:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05495; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905040312.UAA05495@implode.root.com> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: press release From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 20:12:45 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FYI, my press release about wcarchive/Micron went out nationally via PRNewswire at 8:49pm EDT. I've already seen it show up at Fidelity Investments for news about Micron Electronics. Cool stuff. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com MICRON ELECTRONICS NETFRAME CHOSEN FOR INTERNET'S BUSIEST SITE San Francisco, CA., May 3, 1999 Walnut Creek CDROM, Inc. and Micron Electronics, Inc. announced today that Walnut Creek CDROM has chosen the Micron NetFRAME 9201 as the next-generation server platform for their hugely popular FTP archive at ftp.cdrom.com. "It's one of a very few Intel-architecture machines with the capability to handle our exceptionally high traffic loads", said David Greenman, Walnut Creek's Systems Manager. "We're very impressed with both the machine's performance and future expansion capabilities. With its 500MHz Intel Pentium-III Xeon CPU, 64bit PCI bus and high speed memory system, combined with the ultra high performance of the FreeBSD Operating System software, we're able to take full advantage of the upcoming gigabit ethernet connection to the Internet backbone." During its first full day of operation, the new NetFRAME 9201 server set a new all-time one day download record of 969GB of files, surpassing the previous record set last year of 873GB/day. Walnut Creek CDROM was founded in 1991 by its current president and owner, Mr. Robert Bruce. Since the beginning, Walnut Creek CDROM has maintained a philosophy of creating superior quality CDROM software products at a reasonable price to the consumer. The company is also the premier CDROM supplier of the popular FreeBSD and Slackware Linux Operating Systems. Walnut Creek CDROM provides these and a vast collection of other software free of charge to Internet users on its FTP site at ftp://ftp.cdrom.com. With more than 250,000 visitors a day that download nearly 1 terabyte (1000 gigabytes) of files, ftp.cdrom.com is widely known as the world's most popular public FTP software archive. For more information about Walnut Creek CDROM and its products, the company can be contacted at (800) 786-9907 (U.S. toll-free), (925) 674-0783 (international), by fax at (925) 674-0821, or by visiting their web site at http://www.cdrom.com. Micron Electronics, Inc. (Nasdaq: MUEI), a recognized industry leader and direct vendor known for its award-winning products and services, develops, manufactures and markets high-performance, competitively priced computing solutions to consumers, small businesses, commercial and public sector buyers. Its superior customer service and tollfree technical support is available to customers 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Micron offers value and convenience through direct sales via the Internet (www.micronpc.com), by phone 800-249-1179 or by fax 208-893-7240. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 20:26:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80081578A for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:26:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id XAA02811; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma002745; Mon, 3 May 99 23:25:35 -0400 Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 23:25:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Ken Thompson interview in IEEE Computer magazine In-reply-to: <37315ace.13326101@mail.apk.net> To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just thought people might be interested in this. Ken Thompson is interviewed in this month's _IEEE Computer_ magazine on UNIX and developments. At one point during the interview, Computer asks him what he thinks of Linux. Here's his response (any typos are mine, and I show italics via and ): "Thompson: I view Linux as something that's not Microsoft -- a backlash against Microsoft, no more and no less. I don't think it will be very successful in the long run. I've looked at the source, and there are pieces that are good and pieces that are not. A whole bunch of random people have contributed to this source, and the quality varies drastically. My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse. In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up. If you're using it on a single box, that's one thing. But if you want to use Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long way to go." Please remove my return address from any responses to -advocacy; I'd like to avoid getting duplicate messages. thanks. SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon May 3 22:24:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4937815054 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.12]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1772; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:24:31 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00370; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:25:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 07:25:14 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Rahul Siddharthan Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, Wes Peters Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03-May-99 Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > As I said, I do my bit to encourage use of FreeBSD, but I can't > go on an anti-GPL binge while doing so. That's why I raised the > issue. I realize now that logic is not what is involved here. > Issue closed, from my side at least. Advocacy is logic and a certain variable amount of zealotry (which is different per person)... No-one could ever deny that... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 3:17:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from octopus.originative (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC4614D54 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 03:17:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@originative.co.uk) Received: by octopus with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:59:12 +0100 Message-ID: From: paul@originative.co.uk To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: press release Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:59:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: David Greenman [mailto:dg@root.com] > Sent: 04 May 1999 04:13 > To: advocacy@freebsd.org > Cc: chat@freebsd.org > Subject: press release > > > FYI, my press release about wcarchive/Micron went out > nationally via > PRNewswire at 8:49pm EDT. I've already seen it show up at > Fidelity Investments > for news about Micron Electronics. Cool stuff. Good press release. This is exactly how we should do them. Short, snappy, easy to use quote and a single clear point to get across. Have we got a web page where properly formulated press releases such as this can be held so that other's can get hold of them when they need to pass them on to people? What's PRNewswire? Is it worth trying to get this out in the UK or will PRNewswire get it propagated worldwide? Paul. > David Greenman > Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - > http://www.freebsd.org > Creator of high-performance Internet servers - > http://www.terasolutions.com > > MICRON ELECTRONICS NETFRAME CHOSEN FOR INTERNET'S BUSIEST SITE > > San Francisco, CA., May 3, 1999 Walnut Creek CDROM, Inc. and Micron > Electronics, Inc. announced today that Walnut Creek CDROM has > chosen the > Micron NetFRAME 9201 as the next-generation server platform for their > hugely popular FTP archive at ftp.cdrom.com. > > "It's one of a very few Intel-architecture machines with the > capability > to handle our exceptionally high traffic loads", said David > Greenman, Walnut > Creek's Systems Manager. "We're very impressed with both the machine's > performance and future expansion capabilities. With its 500MHz Intel > Pentium-III Xeon CPU, 64bit PCI bus and high speed memory > system, combined > with the ultra high performance of the FreeBSD Operating > System software, > we're able to take full advantage of the upcoming gigabit ethernet > connection to the Internet backbone." > > During its first full day of operation, the new NetFRAME 9201 > server set > a new all-time one day download record of 969GB of files, > surpassing the > previous record set last year of 873GB/day. > > Walnut Creek CDROM was founded in 1991 by its current > president and owner, > Mr. Robert Bruce. Since the beginning, Walnut Creek CDROM has > maintained a > philosophy of creating superior quality CDROM software products at a > reasonable price to the consumer. The company is also the > premier CDROM > supplier of the popular FreeBSD and Slackware Linux Operating Systems. > Walnut Creek CDROM provides these and a vast collection of > other software > free of charge to Internet users on its FTP site at ftp://ftp.cdrom.com. With more than 250,000 visitors a day that download nearly 1 terabyte (1000 gigabytes) of files, ftp.cdrom.com is widely known as the world's most popular public FTP software archive. For more information about Walnut Creek CDROM and its products, the company can be contacted at (800) 786-9907 (U.S. toll-free), (925) 674-0783 (international), by fax at (925) 674-0821, or by visiting their web site at http://www.cdrom.com. Micron Electronics, Inc. (Nasdaq: MUEI), a recognized industry leader and direct vendor known for its award-winning products and services, develops, manufactures and markets high-performance, competitively priced computing solutions to consumers, small businesses, commercial and public sector buyers. Its superior customer service and tollfree technical support is available to customers 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Micron offers value and convenience through direct sales via the Internet (www.micronpc.com), by phone 800-249-1179 or by fax 208-893-7240. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 3:30:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blues.ghis.net (slwag2p26.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E773B14EBB for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 03:30:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@blues.ghis.net) Received: (from jim@localhost) by blues.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA34757; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:30:43 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:30:42 +1000 From: Jim Mock To: paul@originative.co.uk Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: press release Message-ID: <19990504203042.A32584@blues.ghis.net> Reply-To: jim@blues.ghis.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 04 May 1999 at 10:59:11 +0100, paul@originative.co.uk wrote: [snip..] > Good press release. This is exactly how we should do them. Short, > snappy, easy to use quote and a single clear point to get across. > > Have we got a web page where properly formulated press releases > such as this can be held so that other's can get hold of them when > they need to pass them on to people? http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ammunition/press.html Although I haven't gotten around to adding this one yet. This one and the recent SunWorld article are on my todo list, along with a few others I picked up over the past few days. -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@blues.ghis.net ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Global Hosting Inet Svcs http://www.ghis.net/ / \ The personal: http://www.ghis.net/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 6:50: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9278F15117 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id JAA22851; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma022540; Tue, 4 May 99 09:49:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:49:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 remote reboot exploit (fwd) In-reply-to: <19990503231813.A11570@Denninger.Net> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I appreciate the fact that so many of you have chosen to reply to a thread I started... but PLEASE -- take my name off the replies! I'm already subscribed to the mailing list. Thanks! SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 6:52:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE933154C4 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:52:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id JAA24655; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma024267; Tue, 4 May 99 09:51:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:51:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 remote reboot exploit (fwd) In-reply-to: <19990503231813.A11570@Denninger.Net> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Erp. Please disregard my last post. It's early, and the last one was supposed to be directed to -stable. Sorry for the spam. SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 8:26:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from server.computeralt.com (server.computeralt.com [207.41.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5215314DC4 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:26:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@computeralt.com) Received: from scott (scott.computeralt.com [207.41.29.100]) by server.computeralt.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13347 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.37.19990504112123.03489620@mail.computeralt.com> X-Sender: scott@mail.computeralt.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.37 (Beta) Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:26:03 -0400 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: "Scott I. Remick" Subject: shirts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello? Anyone actually using this list these days? Anyhow, just telling everyone that I ordered a FreeBSD t-shirt and polo shirt from FreeBSD Mall and just received them the other day. I now proudly parade around work with them, and hope to inspire at least a few questions :). I encourage everyone to do the same... especially people like myself who are the sole advocate in a large business. I've managed to hold onto the FreeBSD system running our website and part of our email (it handles the internet part, although an Exchange server now also exists) and keep it from being replaced with NT, but it becomes increasingly difficult. It feels like the company I work for is gradually just becoming an extension of Microsoft. ----------------------- Scott I. Remick scott@computeralt.com Network and Information Systems (802)388-7545 FAX:(802)388-3697 Computer Alternatives, Inc. "Voici mon secret. Il est tres simple: on ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 8:36:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCFFB14F6D for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA22557; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd022507; Tue May 4 08:35:58 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA03538; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:35:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905041535.IAA03538@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade To: kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Kris Kennaway) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:35:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, bright@rush.net, rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in, asmodai@wxs.nl, advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Kris Kennaway" at May 3, 99 12:05:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > and volunteers do not build superconducting suppercolliders. > > Is that some new technology for heating TV dinners in sub-picosecond time? > > :-) > > Kris "Macrowave" K. Yeah, yeah, as soon as I saw the typo, I *knew* I was going to get crap about it... hopefully, my point was intact. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 8:45:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C56614D57 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27841; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:45:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd027773; Tue May 4 08:45:31 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA04208; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:45:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905041545.IAA04208@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Why is Linux Successful? - An Opinion. To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:45:37 +0000 (GMT) Cc: paul@originative.co.uk, dg@root.com, junkmale@xtra.co.nz, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <372DC738.D316BCAC@softweyr.com> from "Wes Peters" at May 3, 99 09:56:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Many of the untruths are about Linux, not FreeBSD. The idea that anyone > can put code into Linux, for instance. Go back and read the interview > with Alan Cox at Linux Weekly News, where he admits one of the gating > factors for getting 2.2 out the door were long gaps where Linus was > not available to commit patches. So, in order of who can ACTUALLY add > code, we have FreeBSD with ~200 committers (the core team isn't the > only body that can commit code, they're the reviewers and arbiters) and > Linux with 1. Which is more likely to get bottlenecked during heavy > crunches? Which is glacial at getting releases out? Say, has anyone committed the new bind resolver code as libresolv, and ripped the ancient code out of libc, where it's damn near impossible to track the ISC releases of bind, yet? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 8:52:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D646214E9D for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:52:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19169; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd019118; Tue May 4 08:52:10 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA04621; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:52:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905041552.IAA04621@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra To: billf@chc-chimes.com (Bill Fumerola) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:52:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in, asmodai@wxs.nl, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: from "Bill Fumerola" at May 3, 99 02:09:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How many companies do you think want to dedicate manhours to a project > that has to be released to the general public. All of them who: 1) are aware of the difference between "tactical" and "strategic"? 2) desirous of offloading their maintenance burden? 3) want to leverage the free code developement, which will be going forward, with or without them? ??? That's why all the companies I know of contribute changes back to free software projects, even if the license doesn't require them to do so... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 9:53:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from traveler.e-scape.net (sentry.e-scape.net [207.245.48.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D0D2152AF for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:53:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefanos@traveler.e-scape.net) Received: by traveler.e-scape.net (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA02474; Tue, 4 May 99 12:51:07 -0400 Message-Id: <9905041651.AA02474@traveler.e-scape.net> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 2.0b5) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Kiakas Date: Tue, 4 May 99 12:51:05 -0400 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) Reply-To: stefanos@traveler.e-scape.net References: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Sun, 2 May 1999, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > uncalled for. Linux users may be persuaded of FreeBSD's > > superiority in some things, but if they are asked to choose on > > the basis of licence, most of them will stick with linux... > > Only because they've been brainwashed with loud "free the code!" battle > cries. > Statements like this are no way to advocate FreeBSD. Calling potential users brainwashed does not gain FreeBSD any friends. Why are some people so arrogant to presume they know what is best for everyone? The only way to make FreeBSD more popular is to prove it provides the best solution for a particular task. The average user, this includes business users, do not care if the software is licensed under GPL or BSD as long as it works. stef To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 11: 6:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fed-ef1.frb.gov (fed.frb.gov [132.200.32.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5281501A for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:06:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seth@freebie.dp.ny.frb.org) Received: by fed-ef1.frb.gov; id OAA25881; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m1pmdf.frb.gov(192.168.3.38) by fed.frb.gov via smap (V4.2) id xma024915; Tue, 4 May 99 14:04:46 -0400 Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 14:04:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth Subject: Ken Thompson on Linux In-reply-to: To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I posted the text yesterday, but apparently the IEEE has the whole thing on-line now. It can be found at http://computer.org/computer/thompson.htm I don't know whether this is the sort of stuff we want to repost (to avoid the "hey, you're bashing a fellow free-source project!" accusations), but it's interesting coming from such a well-respected authority. I wonder whether his comments would apply to the FreeBSD effort as well. My guess is "no", seeing as we've got common (directly descended? That tree still confuses the hell out of me) roots. Enjoy -- SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 11:27:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05951581E for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26176; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:26:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:26:48 -0500 From: Tim Tsai To: Seth Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ken Thompson on Linux Message-ID: <19990504132648.A25339@futuresouth.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Seth on Tue, May 04, 1999 at 02:04:41PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't know whether this is the sort of stuff we want to repost (to avoid > the "hey, you're bashing a fellow free-source project!" accusations), but > it's interesting coming from such a well-respected authority. I wonder > whether his comments would apply to the FreeBSD effort as well. My guess > is "no", seeing as we've got common (directly descended? That tree still > confuses the hell out of me) roots. Actually my guess is that he would have similar comments (but perhaps a lot less harsh). Remember that Ken Thompson has been working on Plan 9 and Inferno for quite sometime now (I remember reading about Plan 9 in college in '88). Tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 11:28: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF596157E2 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-023.thuntek.net [207.66.52.23]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id MAA11216; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <372F3B86.6396B317@thuntek.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:25:10 -0600 From: Donald Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Scott I. Remick" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: shirts References: <4.2.0.37.19990504112123.03489620@mail.computeralt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Scott I. Remick wrote: > > Hello? Anyone actually using this list these days? > > Anyhow, just telling everyone that I ordered a FreeBSD t-shirt and polo > shirt from FreeBSD Mall and just received them the other day. I now > proudly parade around work with them, and hope to inspire at least a few > questions :). I encourage everyone to do the same... especially people > like myself who are the sole advocate in a large business. > > I've managed to hold onto the FreeBSD system running our website and part > of our email (it handles the internet part, although an Exchange server now > also exists) and keep it from being replaced with NT, but it becomes > increasingly difficult. It feels like the company I work for is gradually > just becoming an extension of Microsoft. > ----------------------- > Scott I. Remick scott@computeralt.com > Network and Information Systems (802)388-7545 FAX:(802)388-3697 > Computer Alternatives, Inc. > Funny for a company called "Computer Alternatives" to become a MS shop. Good luck! -- Don Wilde "Bringing the Internet to everyone!" Wilde Media 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd. SE #117 voice: 505-771-0709 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 e-mail: dwilde1@thuntek.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 11:47:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F18814DAA for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:46:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA147138256; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:30:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:30:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Terry Lambert Cc: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in, asmodai@wxs.nl, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: <199905041552.IAA04621@usr02.primenet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 4 May 1999, Terry Lambert wrote: > > How many companies do you think want to dedicate manhours to a project > > that has to be released to the general public. > > All of them who: > > 1) are aware of the difference between "tactical" and "strategic"? > > 2) desirous of offloading their maintenance burden? > > 3) want to leverage the free code developement, which will be > going forward, with or without them? > > That's why all the companies I know of contribute changes back to free > software projects, even if the license doesn't require them to do so... Which is fine for some projects, but no company who is going to make some sort of new technology is going to use GPL code to do it, that would kill the product before it was even started. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 11:48: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3751D14DAA for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA148828417; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:33:37 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:33:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Kiakas Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: <9905041651.AA02474@traveler.e-scape.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 4 May 1999, Kiakas wrote: > > Only because they've been brainwashed with loud "free the code!" battle > > cries. > Statements like this are no way to advocate FreeBSD. Calling > potential users brainwashed does not gain FreeBSD any friends. Why are > some people so arrogant to presume they know what is best for everyone? I wouldn't have joined this mailing list if my intentions were to make friends. The GNU license is sexy in pseudo-theory, and nothing more. Communism worked on paper too. > The only way to make FreeBSD more popular is to prove it provides > the best solution for a particular task. The average user, this includes > business users, do not care if the software is licensed under GPL or BSD > as long as it works. Users don't, developers do. I'd rather attract the latter. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 12:48:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from traveler.e-scape.net (sentry.e-scape.net [207.245.48.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3381414EFC for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefanos@traveler.e-scape.net) Received: by traveler.e-scape.net (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA02524; Tue, 4 May 99 15:45:53 -0400 Message-Id: <9905041945.AA02524@traveler.e-scape.net> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 2.0b5) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Kiakas Date: Tue, 4 May 99 15:45:51 -0400 To: Bill Fumerola Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: stefanos@traveler.e-scape.net References: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Tue, 4 May 1999, Kiakas wrote: > > > > Only because they've been brainwashed with loud "free the code!" > > > battle cries. > > > Statements like this are no way to advocate FreeBSD. Calling > > potential users brainwashed does not gain FreeBSD any friends. Why are > > some people so arrogant to presume they know what is best for > > everyone? > > I wouldn't have joined this mailing list if my intentions were to make > friends. The GNU license is sexy in pseudo-theory, and nothing more. > Communism worked on paper too. If FreeBSD advocacy consists of being arrogant and dictating there is only one way to do things then we're not helping to advance the FreeBSD cause. The GPL is a license, use it if it meets your needs. The GPL certainly has some restrictions, but if someone develops software and distributes it to the Unix community we have no right to demand that they distribute it under our terms. > > > The only way to make FreeBSD more popular is to prove it provides > > the best solution for a particular task. The average user, this > > includes business users, do not care if the software is licensed under > > GPL or BSD as long as it works. > > Users don't, developers do. I'd rather attract the latter. > Why would any one develop software for FreeBSD if there are no users? We should also give developers a little credit. They're probably able to make informed decisions without any arrogant statements from the FreeBSD advocates. stef To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 12:53:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3522F14EFC for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA171862375; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:39:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:39:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: Kiakas Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: <9905041945.AA02524@traveler.e-scape.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 4 May 1999, Kiakas wrote: > The GPL certainly has some restrictions, but if someone develops > software and distributes it to the Unix community we have no right to > demand that they distribute it under our terms. True, but I'll keep supporting the software that I can not only use, but use without restrictions. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 14: 6:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gorgias.uchicago.edu (gorgias.uchicago.edu [128.135.21.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A99A15856 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:06:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfarrell@palefire.org) Received: from couatl.palefire.org (couatl.cs.uchicago.edu [128.135.11.38]) by gorgias.uchicago.edu (8.9.2/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA07551 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:06:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: by couatl.palefire.org (Postfix, from userid 30209) id 95A6CBC8E; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:06:04 -0500 (CDT) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: fast / alltheweb.com From: stephen farrell Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 04 May 1999 16:06:04 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So there was this press release: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/990504/tx_dell_fa_1.html And, naturally, http://www.netcraft.com/cgi-bin/Survey/whats?host=alltheweb.com Yet FreeBSD doesn't appear in their press release =(. -- Steve Farrell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 15:43:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E771414C16 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id PAA19308 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:43:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: <9905041945.AA02524@traveler.e-scape.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > If FreeBSD advocacy consists of being arrogant and dictating there > is only one way to do things then we're not helping to advance the FreeBSD > cause. The GPL is a license, use it if it meets your needs. One simple question to everyone calling freebsd advocates arogant, etc. This thread brewed off of (what I consider Linux FUD) posted in reply to slashdot's article. How many of you actually read the messages, or has this just become a general pissing contest? When I read them (most, not all) I saw only a few remarks against linux. Perhaps the most arogant statemet I saw was: "FreeBSD: The Power to Serve." Examples of why I consider it FUD... (or plan ignorance) When Walnut Creek Cdrom upgraded its hardware to reach a goal of 10,000 users (I believe that's there eventual goal?)... the following replies were recorded. ================================================================ Linux (as far as I know) can't handle more than 2GB (or is it 1GB?). That's a shame because FreeBSD evidently can use 4GB (2^32). When Linus is asked about this memory limitation of Linux, he typically answers: "Use a 64-bit processor". IMHO, that's not a good answer. 32-bit architecture is not dead yet. Linus should consider this limitation as a serious deficiency of Linux and work on fixing it rather than saying "Use Alpha". In fact Xeon memory address bus is probably higher than 32-bit and so a OS running on Xeon should be able to handle higher than 4GB RAM. ---Linux FUD--- 'Okay, I'm a linux newbie, so maybe I shouldn't have been able to do this, but I set up my 8.4GB hard drive with a 10mb boot partition, 100MB swap partition, and a 6+ GB partition for / under linux. (The rest is to play with win95 one of these days.) 'Didn't know I couldn't do it, and S.u.s.e 5.3 and 6.0 didn't complain. Maybe ignorance really is bliss.' --------------- 'The only reason they're running that thing on an X86 in the first place is because they're probably FreeBSD bigots and that's the only platform it DOES run on reliably.' ============================================================= Financial Problems (Score:1) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 01, @05:36AM EDT According to employees of Walnut Creek CDROM, the CDROM market is down and Walnut Creek may not be with us much longer. One major chain of computer superstores recently discontinued offering Walnut Creek products. But it is not surprising because Walnut Creek Products are overpriced. Couple that with the looting of Slackware Linux profits to subsidize FreeBSD (which has never made a profit for Walnut Creek) and you have a recipe for bad blood and bad customer relations. If I were a Linux user, I would be outraged. Thank goodness there is an alternative. I've had nothing but the best service and the best values from Cheapbytes. There you can find everything from Linux to FreeBSD at bargain prices with top notch service. I will never again waste a nickel on Walnut Creek ripoffs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 16:22:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pcslink.com (pcslink.com [206.43.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4B615A64 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:22:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@pcslink.com) Received: (from ryan@localhost) by pcslink.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA26996 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:22:22 -0700 (MST) From: Ryan Mooney Message-Id: <199905042322.QAA26996@pcslink.com> Subject: Mindcraft part II - *BSD opportunity? To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:22:22 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm, I realize that this is a bit outside our normal scope of things, but there has been a lot of talk about this lately. What I was thinking was if we could somehow manage to shoehorn a FBSD test into this mixture it could be a real publicity win ("FBSD shows faster than anyone at the openbech tests"). Not sure its possible/easy to do this w/o stepping on to many toes but if it is it could be pretty big (esp w/ the new cdrom.com server). Just a random thought... Forwarded from "Brian Behlendorf" on new-httpd@apache.org: > Mindcraft has a response to the criticisms out there - "OK, help us come > up with a good benchmark". Thus: > > http://www.mindcraft.com/openbenchmark.html > > Chris DiBona at VA Research is trying to organize a testing rig - if > anyone can help from the Apache tuning side of things (Dean? Cliff? > Marc?) send him an email at chris@dibona.com. > > Thanks! > > Brian >-=-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-=-< Ryan Mooney Phone (602)265-9188 PCSLink ryan@pcslink.com Internet Services NT is an excellent choice for managers who need to show that they used up their fiscal year budget for hardware/software expenditures. <-=-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-=-> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 16:30:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw1.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCB815263 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:30:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-12-59.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.12.59]) by mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20055; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:30:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15022; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:31:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:31:11 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Ryan Mooney Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mindcraft part II - *BSD opportunity? Message-ID: <19990504183110.B14606@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: <199905042322.QAA26996@pcslink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: <199905042322.QAA26996@pcslink.com>; from Ryan Mooney on Tue, May 04, 1999 at 04:22:22PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 4, 1999, Ryan Mooney wrote: > > Hmm, I realize that this is a bit outside our normal scope of things, > but there has been a lot of talk about this lately. What I was thinking > was if we could somehow manage to shoehorn a FBSD test into this > mixture it could be a real publicity win ("FBSD shows faster than anyone at > the openbech tests"). Not sure its possible/easy to do this w/o stepping > on to many toes but if it is it could be pretty big (esp w/ the new > cdrom.com server). Bad idea with the press/reputation Mindcraft already has. > > Just a random thought... > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-=-< > Ryan Mooney Phone (602)265-9188 PCSLink > ryan@pcslink.com Internet Services > NT is an excellent choice for managers who need to show that they used > up their fiscal year budget for hardware/software expenditures. > <-=-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-=-> > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello "I'll rob that rich person and give it to some poor deserving slob. That will *prove* I'm Robin Hood." -- Daffy Duck, "Robin Hood Daffy", [1958, Chuck Jones] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 16:37:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7DE15141 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:37:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id IAA27106; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:35:29 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <372F83BC.597F33F7@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:33:16 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > But to push this "my product is better than yours" thing to the > licensing is surely going a bit too far... There are a lot of people who choose BSD-license based OS because they prefer the BSD license. Heck, some people can't even *choose* a GPL license, because it would restrict them in ways that would make their business impossible. Are you asking us not to say that for some people the main (and sometimes *only*) reason for going FreeBSD instead of Linux is the license issue? > Historical note: the GPL was created by one Richard Stallman, who > believes that any restrictions on software For all I know Ricard Stallman could believe in Santa Claus. The person behind the license is irrelevant, what is relevant is what the license *IS*. Besides, that's not RMS belief. He believes in software that *CANNOT* (as in *restriction*) have it's source closed. > modification/redistribution is unethical. From that point of > view, the GPL is the best solution and a phenomenally successful > one. So to blast the GPL for being business-unfriendly just Eh? I don't follow your logic here. > doesn't make sense. Besides, businesses do make money from GPL'd > code -- Cygnus, Red Hat, etc, etc -- and Stallman himself is > certainly all for it. I see a lot of people making money selling other's people software. I also see a lot of hardware manufacturers making money by selling their hardware with Linux (which could have had _any_ license, as long as it got as much publicity as it have right now -- saying you support Linux is the easiest way to gain free advertisement nowadays). Would you mind filling in who are making money by selling _their own_ software GPLed? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness if that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 16:41: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD65515130 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id IAA27441; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:40:37 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <372F84F1.39B3B681@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:38:25 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Laurence Berland , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > To put it another way, the BSD licence may give more freedom to > the next programmer; but then, users all the way down the line > below that can lose their freedom. The GPL's aim is to prevent > that. Mind you, "users all the way down the line" couldn't care less about source code. They have no use for it. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness if that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 16:45: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923D614FBD for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id IAA27749; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:44:47 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <372F85EB.835C6B99@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:42:35 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Laurence Berland , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > It would be equally wrong to take a BSDL'd work, develop it > further, and then GPL it. Legally it may be ok, but I think it's > ethically wrong, and probably RMS would agree. The original > licence should be respected. It would not be legally ok. BSD license requires that it's terms be kept, while GPL licenses requires that no other restrictions be made. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness if that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 16:48: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB08914FBD for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id IAA28033; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:47:28 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <372F868D.D6F66EEE@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:45:17 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Kris Kennaway , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , Laurence Berland Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Baldwin wrote: > > Actually, (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but if you release version 1.0 > under GPL, and use any of the 1.0 code in version 2.0 that you try to sell w/o > the source, then anyone can sue you for the source code to version 2.0 because > it would be a derivative of 1.0 and by the GPL that means the source to 2.0 > would have to be GPL'd and thus freely available, which prevents you from > selling it, for all intents and purposes. It gets much worse when you have a > large propietary product, such as your own OS specific to your application, > and you want to add drivers for a newer network card. You wouldn't be able to > use GPL'd code because you would screw yourself. You'd have to release the > source code to your propietary OS, which your competitors would gladly take > from you and sink you. OTOH, such a company can safely use BSL'd code without > worrying about having to release the source to their competitors. And let's > face it, not all software is going to be free, we do have to eat somehow. So > we can't kill all possibility of selling software. That is not true. The copyright owner can release the software in as many possible and conflicting licenses as he wants. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness if that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue May 4 19: 7:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from home (unknown [203.0.93.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94BB51561C for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:07:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jsutton@genesis.net.au) Received: from localhost (jsutton@localhost) by home (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08045 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:08:08 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: stargate.home: jsutton owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:08:07 +1000 (EST) From: Joel Sutton X-Sender: jsutton@stargate.home To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: www.tunelinux.com - an interesting idea... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I just spotted: http://www.tunelinux.com/ Here's a snippet: ---[snip]--------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to TuneLinux.COM This site is the central repository on the Internet for advice and guidance on performance tuning Linux systems. Over the next few months we will be collecting YOUR articles and advice on how to best tune and maintain Linux systems. ---[snip]--------------------------------------------------------- At the moment it seems to be completely empty but it's early days. Is this something that we could set up as a resource for FreeBSD server operators? Cheers, Joel... --- Joel Sutton | Busy Bee Consulting Phone: 0409 426-563 | Melbourne, Australia Email: jsutton@genesis.net.au | http://www.genesis.net.au/~jsutton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 0:11:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from home (unknown [203.0.93.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B38D15557 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 00:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jsutton@genesis.net.au) Received: from localhost (jsutton@localhost) by home (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08452; Wed, 5 May 1999 17:12:36 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: stargate.home: jsutton owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:12:35 +1000 (EST) From: Joel Sutton X-Sender: jsutton@stargate.home To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: vicfug@itworks.com.au Subject: Re: [ADV] Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade article) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Looking at this argument for a moment... > Financial Problems (Score:1) > by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 01, @05:36AM EDT > According to employees of Walnut Creek CDROM, the CDROM market is down > and Walnut Creek may not be with us much longer. One major chain of > computer superstores recently discontinued offering Walnut Creek > products. But it is not surprising because Walnut Creek Products are > overpriced. When I purchased 3.0-RELEASE from Walnut Creek I had $84.97 Australian deducted from my VISA card. Today I received 3.1-RELEASE from a company in Sydney after I had written them a cheque for $69 Australian. This included a Linux stuffed penguin (which I will swap for an old desktop PC case) and a SUSE evaluation CD (which should make a good coaster ;->). So I can see the point to this argument. Unless you're out to support Walnut Creek then, in Australia at least, the first thing we'd do is buy from a local, cheaper supplier. Ultimately some money must make it back to Walnut Creek but that doesn't alter the perception that Walnut Creek is over priced. With that in my mind, I must now think about doing the Links section on the VicFUG web site (still not 100% complete) and I'm tempted to put in the local suppliers. What's the right way to go here? Do I take the approach of supporting Walnut Creek if you can afford it, otherwise buy local? Cheers, Joel... --- Joel Sutton | Busy Bee Consulting Phone: 0409 426-563 | Melbourne, Australia Email: jsutton@genesis.net.au | http://www.genesis.net.au/~jsutton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 0:47: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B21515539 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 00:46:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: from iisc.ernet.in (iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.3]) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA30332; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:17:46 +0530 Received: from physics.iisc.ernet.in (physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.115]) by iisc.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA20615; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:07:37 +0530 (GMT+0530) Received: from theory6.physics.iisc.ernet.in by physics.iisc.ernet.in (ERNET-IISc/SMI-4.1) id HAA10145; Wed, 5 May 1999 07:41:59 GMT Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:09:48 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra In-Reply-To: <372F83BC.597F33F7@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > nowadays). Would you mind filling in who are making money by selling > _their own_ software GPLed? This really seems way off-topic, which is why I've been keeping quiet. But since you ask: Cygnus contributes heavily to a lot of GNU software. In particular, they coordinate development of egcs, which Stallman has now blessed as the "official" gcc. They sell an enhanced platform called GNUPro, but nearly all of it is GPL'd, and all the GPL'd stuff is eventually publicly released. Red Hat GPL's just about everything they write, such their install program, the package manager (which is now used by nearly everyone else), various configuration programs, etc. They have also funded the GNOME project quite heavily, and employ several linux developers (including Alan Cox) to write linux and related code, all of which is GPL'd. They have even ceased support of non-free stuff like CDE and Applixware, which they used to support earlier. Long back, Peter Deutsch had this interesting idea of GPL'ing old versions of ghostscript, while using two different licences (free but very restrictive, or commercial) for the latest version, and he claims to have made enough money to retire on, while keeping the GNU camp (mostly) happy too. Maybe this is not so off-topic after all. How many people are paid to work on FreeBSD? In the linux world, perhaps the closest analogy to the FreeBSD team may be Debian, but they're not the reason linux is such a hit over the last year. The reason is the commercial companies, and the single biggest factor may be Red Hat, which has made its name among the big corporations, and at the same time remained in the good books of the linux community by contributing back heavily. I'm not saying they did this because of the GPL. They didn't have to GPL their package manager, for instance, but they did. I see no hitch in a commercial company selling FreeBSD under the BSDL. I suspect a commercial company like BSDI would have done much better, very likely beaten Red Hat to the big time, if they had stuck to the BSDL for their distributions and concentrated on the ``support'' market (which includes selling prepackaged CDs and manuals, as Red Hat does) for making money. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 1:52: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62BB14DEA for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 01:51:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from curie.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@curie.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.116]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08137 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:51:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by curie.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA14771 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:51:19 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19990505105118.A14762@cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:51:18 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: [winesett@voy.net: OS War to Cure Cystic Fibrosis] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Forwarded message from Corey Winesett ----- Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 17:08:13 -0400 From: Corey Winesett Reply-To: winesett@voy.net Subject: OS War to Cure Cystic Fibrosis Please post a link to the OS War to Cure Cystic Fibrosis. Users can vote for their favorite OS, including FreeBSD, by donating $1 per vote the the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation. CF causes more deaths in children than any other genetic disease. OS War to Cure Cystic Fibrosis http://earth.vol.com/~winesett Graphics are available at the site. Thanks for your help, Corey Winesett ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 11:10:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E29BC15006; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:10:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.196.146]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA7363; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:10:05 +0200 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00608; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:11:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199905051810.NAA25028@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 20:11:00 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PCWeek article by Anne Chen -- Comments Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-May-99 Mike Avery wrote: > I don't think that if someone were to criticize FreeBSD technically > people would seriously tell them to "write your own OS". It's not > easy. And we know FreeBSD wasn't the product of one person in > their basement. Similarly, advocacy isn't a one person job. > > As a FreeBSD newbie, I probably should look more before speaking, > but advocacy and development require different skills. That isn't to > say one person can't have both, but most often they don't. It seems > that there should be a separate group handling publicity, evangalism, > advocacy, and so on. And the group should be more open than the > existing structure seems to be. Sorry if I am going to step on people's toes with this post and use a few french words every now and then, but I am getting fucking tired of this whole useless debate by now. It seems that the people with the biggest complaints are doing NOTHING about their situation in order to add something to the project. BULLSHIT about core picking on you and rejecting your ideas on forehand. Simply send-pr yer patches, suggestions etc and no-one can decline/reject them if they are technically sound or otherwise undeniably good. Core are not the only committers... Also, as a couple of people by now know (like Eivind, Jordan, Adrian, Mike, and a few others) I am a kernel hacker wannabe, yet I lack the skill(s) at this point to contribute majorly, so instead I focus on getting other things off the ground in order to enlargen my knowledge in order to contribute as soon as possible... Also I have been busy getting support for FreeBSD from a few companies as well as making FreeBSD a well known word wherever I have a chance... Also, speaking on advocacy and getting an income, just look at what Jim Mock & Robert Garrett managed to pull off in their _spare_ time for advocacy (http://advocacy.freebsd.org for the unaware). Advocacy can be done on multiple levels... So the argument that advocacy is a PR job is bullshit... PR only gets to suits... It's the techies and users one ultimately has to please and granted managers do have to be influenced, but then again, I have always `served' under a management that was reasonable for well explained decisions about OS implementations... So get off your fucking moaning/whining/bitching pedestal and CONTRIBUTE damnit... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Accept no limitations... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 11:45:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C9614CC5 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:45:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13813 for advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:45:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:45:09 -0500 From: Tim Tsai To: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: DPT Message-ID: <19990505134508.A13458@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to www.dpt.com, they now officially support Linux (on their new RAID cards no less - which FreeBSD doesn't support yet). I am going to send them an e-mail. We probably would buy a few of their controllers if they have FreeBSD support. Tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 12: 5:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78440158F3 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:05:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA15413; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:26:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 14:26:36 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Tim Tsai Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: DPT In-Reply-To: <19990505134508.A13458@futuresouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 5 May 1999, Tim Tsai wrote: > According to www.dpt.com, they now officially support Linux (on their > new RAID cards no less - which FreeBSD doesn't support yet). > > I am going to send them an e-mail. We probably would buy a few of their > controllers if they have FreeBSD support. I'm going to as well, we've had some issues running DPT with FreeBSD and having some support available would be nice... -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 13:28:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199E514BFC; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:28:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25627; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.37.19990505141353.0468d2a0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.37 (Beta) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 14:28:12 -0600 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: PCWeek article by Anne Chen -- Comments Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy In-Reply-To: References: <199905051810.NAA25028@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:11 PM 5/5/99 +0200, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >Sorry if I am going to step on people's toes with this post and use a few >french words every now and then, but I am getting fucking tired of this >whole useless debate by now. It's only useless if nothing comes of it. The issues are important, and I think it's poor form to jump all over Mike like that. He is making some good points and is honestly trying to help. Don't shoot the messenger. >It seems that the people with the biggest complaints are doing NOTHING >about their situation in order to add something to the project. Only if you regard coding as the only way to add something to the project. Remember, PR is to communication. Those who are pointing out the problems -- that is, who are COMMUNICATING -- and attempting to foster more effective advocacy ARE doing something. Something very important. Their contributions are undervalued and even denigrated by some of those who are doing coding -- in particular Jordan, who actually disdains effective advocacy. >Also, speaking on advocacy and getting an income, just look at what Jim >Mock & Robert Garrett managed to pull off in their _spare_ time for >advocacy (http://advocacy.freebsd.org for the unaware). A positive contribution, certainly, but it doesn't address some of the fundamental problems that have been pointed out in this and other threads. The amount of work that is needed is about three orders of magnitude greater -- and that would just be to get BARELY CLOSE to the amount of advocacy Linux enjoys. >Advocacy can be done on multiple levels... So the argument that advocacy is >a PR job is bullshit... PR only gets to suits... It's the techies and >users one ultimately has to please and granted managers do have to be >influenced, but then again, I have always `served' under a management that >was reasonable for well explained decisions about OS implementations... The above statements reflect the attitudes which are responsible for FreeBSD's lagging position (which is getting farther behind; FreeBSD has been losing about 4% share per month, according to surveys of Internet hosts). Good PR does NOT "only get to suits." That's why Linux is growing by leaps and bounds. >So get off your fucking moaning/whining/bitching pedestal and CONTRIBUTE >damnit... Those who are fostering awareness and encouraging change ARE contributing. Coding is only one way to contribute, and at this point it is not even the most important way. Gain more mindshare and a devoted following, and the coders will follow. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 14:40:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C5D614ED4; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA37826; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brett Glass Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: PCWeek article by Anne Chen -- Comments In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 May 1999 14:28:12 MDT." <4.2.0.37.19990505141353.0468d2a0@localhost> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 14:40:44 -0700 Message-ID: <37823.925940444@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > are undervalued and even denigrated by some of those who are doing coding -- > in particular Jordan, who actually disdains effective advocacy. Stop putting words in my mouth, Brett, I'm getting tired of it. I disdain a lot of what you have to offer but that doesn't mean that I disdain "effective advocacy", ye gods, is it possible for your ego to be any more inflated here? How do you live with yourself? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 15:17:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406D31556C for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:17:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id PAA19771; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA24363; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:09:53 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA12974; Wed, 5 May 99 15:09:46 PDT Message-Id: <3730C1A8.FAEA91E0@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:09:44 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > This really seems way off-topic, which is why I've been keeping > quiet. But since you ask: Cygnus contributes heavily to a lot of > GNU software. In particular, they coordinate development of egcs, > which Stallman has now blessed as the "official" gcc. They sell > an enhanced platform called GNUPro, but nearly all of it is > GPL'd, and all the GPL'd stuff is eventually publicly released. No they don't. They give away copies of GNUPro if you buy their support contract. You may think the difference is minor, but it is not. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 15:24:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 488C9154A9; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09691; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22506; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.37.19990505141353.0468d2a0@localhost> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:24:48 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: PCWeek article by Anne Chen -- Comments Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 05-May-99 Brett Glass wrote: > Those who are fostering awareness and encouraging change ARE contributing. > Coding is only one way to contribute, and at this point it is not even > the most important way. Gain more mindshare and a devoted following, and > the coders will follow. I agree. As I've said a couple of times now, the CS department here at Va Tech is considering switching from FreeBSD to Linux. All of the technical staff in the department support FreeBSD, but some of the professors don't use that to make their decisions. They decide based on what they read in PC Magazine over breakfast. They are looking specifically for FreeBSD in a shrink-wrapped boxes, or books on FreeBSD. They would love to see "Mastering FreeBSD", "FreeBSD Unleashed!", "FreeBSD for Dummies", etc. They are trying to satisfy employer's wants, and right now they see more companies going for Linux than FreeBSD. Technical merits such as a unified kernel and userland, central source repository, and the ports system can only get us so far. We each have to advocate in as many different ways as we can. And as Brett has said, marketing and coding are two different things and not people are good at one are good at the other. I'm a sys admin/coder who aspires to being a kernel hacker someday. Marketing is not my strength, so while I'll do what I can, some people are going to promote FreeBSD differently and in some ways more effectively than I do. > --Brett Glass --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 20:13:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FEB214EEF for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:13:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu) Received: from pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) Ident [ewayte] by pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id E1F45340F; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 23:13:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Wayte To: John Baldwin Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy Subject: Re: PCWeek article by Anne Chen -- Comments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ah, but those texts have been written: "Unix for Dummies," "Mastering Unix," etc. FreeBSD is more Unix than Linux - that's why the Linux crowd has to have all of these "special" books! FreeBSD == Unix Linux == Unix like Even WinNT can be made Unix like, as far as the commands go - I use the vi that comes with the POSIX kit in the WinNT Workstation Resource Kit. Eric Wayte, DBA Univ. of Central Florida ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu On Wed, 5 May 1999, John Baldwin wrote: > Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:24:48 -0400 (EDT) > From: John Baldwin > To: Brett Glass > Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai > Subject: Re: PCWeek article by Anne Chen -- Comments > > > On 05-May-99 Brett Glass wrote: > > Those who are fostering awareness and encouraging change ARE contributing. > > Coding is only one way to contribute, and at this point it is not even > > the most important way. Gain more mindshare and a devoted following, and > > the coders will follow. > > I agree. As I've said a couple of times now, the CS department here at Va Tech > is considering switching from FreeBSD to Linux. All of the technical staff in > the department support FreeBSD, but some of the professors don't use that to > make their decisions. They decide based on what they read in PC Magazine over > breakfast. They are looking specifically for FreeBSD in a shrink-wrapped > boxes, or books on FreeBSD. They would love to see "Mastering FreeBSD", > "FreeBSD Unleashed!", "FreeBSD for Dummies", etc. They are trying to satisfy > employer's wants, and right now they see more companies going for Linux than > FreeBSD. Technical merits such as a unified kernel and userland, central > source repository, and the ports system can only get us so far. We each have > to advocate in as many different ways as we can. And as Brett has said, > marketing and coding are two different things and not people are good at one > are good at the other. I'm a sys admin/coder who aspires to being a kernel > hacker someday. Marketing is not my strength, so while I'll do what I can, > some people are going to promote FreeBSD differently and in some ways more > effectively than I do. > > > --Brett Glass > > --- > > John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ > PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed May 5 20:45:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw1.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0336D14C33 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:45:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-18-93.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.18.93]) by mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27518; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:45:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04637; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:46:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:46:42 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Joel Sutton Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: www.tunelinux.com - an interesting idea... Message-ID: <19990505224642.E2532@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Joel Sutton on Wed, May 05, 1999 at 12:08:07PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 4, 1999, Joel Sutton wrote: > At the moment it seems to be completely empty but it's early days. > > Is this something that we could set up as a resource for FreeBSD server > operators? It sounds like a good idea, but we should also come up with something original, and stop being one step behind the Linux crowd in the creative advocacy sites. Perhaps somebody generous enough to spare some bandwidth for a site that would carry various custom configurations (in pkg_add-able format?) for various things. The availibility of it _could_ win over the management types, and the lazier sysadmins out there. ;) > > Cheers, Joel... > > --- > Joel Sutton | Busy Bee Consulting > Phone: 0409 426-563 | Melbourne, Australia > Email: jsutton@genesis.net.au | http://www.genesis.net.au/~jsutton > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello No extensible language will be universal. - T. Cheatham To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 4:46:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from trickster.net (trickster.net [199.1.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946EF14D87 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 04:46:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from travis@trickster.net) Received: from [216.192.166.149] (chi-qbu-nvg-vty149.as.wcom.net [216.192.166.149]) by trickster.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA04389; Thu, 6 May 1999 07:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905061146.HAA04389@trickster.net> Subject: Re: www.tunelinux.com - an interesting idea... Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 06:46:32 -0500 x-sender: travis@wildebeest.trickster.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Travis Ruthenburg To: , "Joel Sutton" Cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 5/5/99 10:46 PM, Chris Costello (chris@holly.dyndns.org) uttered: >On Tue, May 4, 1999, Joel Sutton wrote: >> At the moment it seems to be completely empty but it's early days. >> >> Is this something that we could set up as a resource for FreeBSD server >> operators? > > It sounds like a good idea, but we should also come up with >something original, and stop being one step behind the Linux >crowd in the creative advocacy sites. > > Perhaps somebody generous enough to spare some bandwidth for a >site that would carry various custom configurations (in >pkg_add-able format?) for various things. The availibility of it >_could_ win over the management types, and the lazier sysadmins >out there. ;) I could be wrong, but couldn't the "FreeBSD Cookbook" project also encompass this? Regards, Travis Ruthenburg bjork bjork bjork travis@trickster.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 9:57:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3B8315A07 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id JAA04213 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG might interest a few of you... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:17:10 -0700 From: Derek J. Balling To: svlug@svlug.org Subject: [svlug] *sigh* OK, examples of why/where Linux FAILS in the real world. I work for a Large Web Company. (read the headers, do the math). We are a FreeBSD shop. We are installing Oracle. There is no Oracle for FreeBSD. Derek suggests Linux. Derek receives the usual sighs and groans in anticipation of the usual BSD<->Linux flame-war that occurs between myself and Jan (our security guy, who ALSO happens to be security-officer@freebsd.org so I'm told). Issue # 1: Get the DPT controller working. Motherboard has SCSI built onboard but nothing attached to it. In PCI0 is a spiffy DPT3334 dual-channel SCSI controller. Great, use the EATA-DMA driver and away we go. Except that for some reason Linux doesn't SEE the DPT controller unless we completely disable onboard NCR driver. Never mind that maybe our original intent was to boot off the NCR and let the DPT handle the RAID system for Oracle. Linux won't even touch the DPT until we tell the BIOS to pretend that the NCR doesn't exist. Issue #2: Choose your preference -- SMP or the ability to USE the box The person who did the install (before I got there) installed Red Hat 5.2... which is all well and good except that RH5.2 out of the box doesn't know squat about SMP. Considering all the "advances" between 5.2 and 6.0, silly me says "well, just upgrade to 6.0 for the SMP support and everything will be great." So now, after all is said and done, I have a choice -- reinstall 5.2 and not have SMP support, or have SMP support and a complete inability to compile basic simple tools like "ssh". No, I cannot just use the RPM for ssh. (is there even one? certainly not from RH) Is there ANY QA being done by RH before they release their code? I would think the inability to freakin compile would be something that they MIGHT consider checking? It's not just SSH from what I can tell by reading on Deja News but other minor things like BIND, Kerberos, etc. Any suggestions on how I should get this box operational TODAY using something other than NT would be greatly appreciated. But from my employer's perspective, Linux's second-chance-at-a-first-impression came and went (the first being years ago when we compared BSD/Linux and chose BSD) and I don't see it getting a third shot after this debacle. D -- echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo@svlug.org ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ to unsubscribe see http://www.svlug.org/mdstuff/lists.shtml for posting guidelines. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 10: 9:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [208.139.222.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E65214EEF for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10260; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:09:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id MAA10547; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:09:07 -0500 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id MAA13270; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:09:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:09:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199905061709.MAA13270@free.pcs> To: anarchy@crl.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-advocacy In-Reply-To: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: > >might interest a few of you... > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:17:10 -0700 >From: Derek J. Balling >To: svlug@svlug.org >Subject: [svlug] *sigh* > >OK, examples of why/where Linux FAILS in the real world. > >I work for a Large Web Company. (read the headers, do the math). We are a >FreeBSD shop. We are installing Oracle. There is no Oracle for FreeBSD. > > [ snip ] > >Any suggestions on how I should get this box operational TODAY using >something other than NT would be greatly appreciated. But from my You did pointed this guy to one of the Oracle install (on FreeBSD) HOWTO's that have been floating around recently, right? -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 10: 9:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DEEF1501D for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:09:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id KAA25338; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990506100852.A22781@best.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:08:52 -0700 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: parker@Yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Ben Manes on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 09:57:35AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Derek is a local PITA. Good thing he has no voice and even himself is forced to run FreeBSD on his desktop. Hehe. I love Yahoo. ;) Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather see that happen, then oracle on NT. -- Yan On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 09:57:35AM -0700, Ben Manes wrote: > > might interest a few of you... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:17:10 -0700 > From: Derek J. Balling > To: svlug@svlug.org > Subject: [svlug] *sigh* > > OK, examples of why/where Linux FAILS in the real world. > > I work for a Large Web Company. (read the headers, do the math). We are a > FreeBSD shop. We are installing Oracle. There is no Oracle for FreeBSD. > Derek suggests Linux. Derek receives the usual sighs and groans in > anticipation of the usual BSD<->Linux flame-war that occurs between myself > and Jan (our security guy, who ALSO happens to be > security-officer@freebsd.org so I'm told). > > Issue # 1: Get the DPT controller working. > > Motherboard has SCSI built onboard but nothing attached to it. In PCI0 is a > spiffy DPT3334 dual-channel SCSI controller. Great, use the EATA-DMA > driver and away we go. > > Except that for some reason Linux doesn't SEE the DPT controller unless we > completely disable onboard NCR driver. Never mind that maybe our original > intent was to boot off the NCR and let the DPT handle the RAID system for > Oracle. Linux won't even touch the DPT until we tell the BIOS to pretend > that the NCR doesn't exist. > > > Issue #2: Choose your preference -- SMP or the ability to USE the box > > The person who did the install (before I got there) installed Red Hat > 5.2... which is all well and good except that RH5.2 out of the box doesn't > know squat about SMP. Considering all the "advances" between 5.2 and 6.0, > silly me says "well, just upgrade to 6.0 for the SMP support and everything > will be great." > > So now, after all is said and done, I have a choice -- reinstall 5.2 and > not have SMP support, or have SMP support and a complete inability to > compile basic simple tools like "ssh". > > No, I cannot just use the RPM for ssh. (is there even one? certainly not > from RH) > > Is there ANY QA being done by RH before they release their code? I would > think the inability to freakin compile would be something that they MIGHT > consider checking? It's not just SSH from what I can tell by reading on > Deja News but other minor things like BIND, Kerberos, etc. > > Any suggestions on how I should get this box operational TODAY using > something other than NT would be greatly appreciated. But from my > employer's perspective, Linux's second-chance-at-a-first-impression came > and went (the first being years ago when we compared BSD/Linux and chose > BSD) and I don't see it getting a third shot after this debacle. > > D > > -- > echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo@svlug.org > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ to unsubscribe > see http://www.svlug.org/mdstuff/lists.shtml for posting guidelines. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 10:20:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6453D14F9D for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id KAA29136; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990506102001.A27724@best.com> Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:20:01 -0700 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Jonathan Lemon , anarchy@crl.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: parker@yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) References: <199905061709.MAA13270@free.pcs> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199905061709.MAA13270@free.pcs>; from Jonathan Lemon on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 12:09:07PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 12:09:07PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > In article you write: > > > >might interest a few of you... > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:17:10 -0700 > >From: Derek J. Balling > >To: svlug@svlug.org > >Subject: [svlug] *sigh* > > > >OK, examples of why/where Linux FAILS in the real world. > > > >I work for a Large Web Company. (read the headers, do the math). We are a > >FreeBSD shop. We are installing Oracle. There is no Oracle for FreeBSD. > > > > [ snip ] > > > >Any suggestions on how I should get this box operational TODAY using > >something other than NT would be greatly appreciated. But from my > > You did pointed this guy to one of the Oracle install (on FreeBSD) HOWTO's > that have been floating around recently, right? > -- > Jonathan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message What is the URL? I doubt it will happen as we are, been corporate and all, need Oracle support (hmm.. just like people need solaris and WinNT support.. yeah right!). Plus it is fun to have Linux on the network -- keeps my job (security) interesting and keeps me busy ;) -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 10:23:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wcug.wwu.edu (sloth.wcug.wwu.edu [140.160.164.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C2FF14D4F for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tcole@wcug.wwu.edu) Received: (qmail 27848 invoked by uid 1085); 6 May 1999 17:23:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:23:19 -0700 From: Travis Cole To: Ben Manes Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) Message-ID: <19990506102319.A27275@wcug.wwu.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Ben Manes on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 09:57:35AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 09:57:35AM -0700, Ben Manes wrote: > > might interest a few of you... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:17:10 -0700 > From: Derek J. Balling > To: svlug@svlug.org > Subject: [svlug] *sigh* > > Issue #2: Choose your preference -- SMP or the ability to USE the box > > The person who did the install (before I got there) installed Red Hat > 5.2... which is all well and good except that RH5.2 out of the box doesn't > know squat about SMP. Considering all the "advances" between 5.2 and 6.0, > silly me says "well, just upgrade to 6.0 for the SMP support and everything > will be great." > > So now, after all is said and done, I have a choice -- reinstall 5.2 and > not have SMP support, or have SMP support and a complete inability to > compile basic simple tools like "ssh". > > No, I cannot just use the RPM for ssh. (is there even one? certainly not > from RH) This guy does know you can easily download the linux kernel source from kernel.org and recompile it with SMP support right? I can't imagine why he thought they would have to upgrade to RedHat 6.0 for SMP support. 2.2 kernels work fine in RedHat 5.2 And what about going to www.replay.com for ssh RPMS? -- --Travis Take a look at: www.OpenBSD.org www.NetBSD.org www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 10:28:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [208.139.222.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F95150DF for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:28:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10342; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:28:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id MAA13682; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:28:22 -0500 Message-ID: <19990506122822.65424@right.PCS> Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:28:22 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: anarchy@crl.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) References: <199905061709.MAA13270@free.pcs> <19990506102001.A27724@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <19990506102001.A27724@best.com>; from Jan B. Koum on May 05, 1999 at 10:20:01AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 05, 1999 at 10:20:01AM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > What is the URL? I doubt it will happen as we are, been corporate and > all, need Oracle support (hmm.. just like people need solaris and WinNT > support.. yeah right!). > Plus it is fun to have Linux on the network -- keeps my job (security) > interesting and keeps me busy ;) Here are two URLs, they also contain pointers to other sources. http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~mhmoolen/howto-oracle.html http://www.lf.net/lf/pi/oracle/install-linux-oracle-on-freebsd -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 11:14: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.visi.com (baal.visi.com [209.98.98.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3792D15C85 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:13:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ts@visi.com) Received: from isis.visi.com (ts@isis.visi.com [209.98.98.8]) by mail.visi.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) with ESMTP id NAA28529 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:13:56 -0500 (CDT) Posted-Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 13:13:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 13:13:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Tim T Seidl To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: linus on BSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/Linuschat990505.html Jon Lewis from atlantic.net at 2:46pm ET What's your opinion on the various BSD's vs Linux? BSD proponents still claim the BSD networking code is cleaner/faster than the Linux code and that BSD in general is more salable. In your opinion, is any of this still true? Linus Torvalds at 2:47pm ET No. What did you expect me to say, seriously? Actually, I think the major lack in BSD is the lack of interest and the fact that they haven't really gotten people worked up about their cause. A lot of them seem to be fairly old-fashioned ("we cater to the /original/ UNIX people") or just to have given up on the market. They aren't hungry enough, I think. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 13:35: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3820B159EB for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06138 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 May 1999 15:34:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 15:34:53 -0500 From: Tim To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: DPT response Message-ID: <19990506153453.B5816@futuresouth.com> References: <85256769.006E3D3C.00@dptnotes.dpt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <85256769.006E3D3C.00@dptnotes.dpt.com>; from support@dpt.com on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 04:07:30PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 04:07:30PM -0400, support@dpt.com wrote: > Hello Tim, > > It looks like FreeBSD's I2O OSM is to be available sometime in June - you > want to contact them for more exact information (the driver support for > Free BSD will be in the form of an OSM, not a DPT driver - also there are > no immediate plans for an operating system level Storage Manager utility > for this OS.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 15: 3:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F8F915E45 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 15:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA40658; Thu, 6 May 1999 15:03:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 May 1999 10:08:52 PDT." <19990506100852.A22781@best.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 15:03:46 -0700 Message-ID: <40655.926028226@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Derek is a local PITA. Good thing he has no voice and even himself > is forced to run FreeBSD on his desktop. Hehe. I love Yahoo. ;) > > Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather > see that happen, then oracle on NT. Erm, why didn't you point him at: http://www.freebsd.org.ru/linux-oracle.HOW-TO.html Or any of the other howtos on running Linux oracle on FreeBSD? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 17:29: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5CE0151BB for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:28:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2AF202EE1B; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 2052 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199905061146.HAA04389@trickster.net> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 17:28:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: Travis Ruthenburg Subject: Re: www.tunelinux.com - an interesting idea... Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Joel Sutton , chris@calldei.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 06-May-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Travis Ruthenburg wrote: > On 5/5/99 10:46 PM, Chris Costello (chris@holly.dyndns.org) uttered: >=20 >>On Tue, May 4, 1999, Joel Sutton wrote: >>> At the moment it seems to be completely empty but it's early days.=20 >>>=20 >>> Is this something that we could set up as a resource for FreeBSD server >>> operators? =20 >> >> It sounds like a good idea, but we should also come up with >>something original, and stop being one step behind the Linux >>crowd in the creative advocacy sites. >> >> Perhaps somebody generous enough to spare some bandwidth for a >>site that would carry various custom configurations (in >>pkg_add-able format?) for various things. The availibility of it >>_could_ win over the management types, and the lazier sysadmins >>out there. ;) >=20 Put something together and I will try to swing it for you. I would need to know: 1) Expected disk space needed. 2) Other resouces needed (I assume just web server and ftp server is needed= ) 3) Who would be in charge of the project For something like this, I'm sure I can give what is needed! Nicole > I could be wrong, but couldn't the "FreeBSD Cookbook" project also=20 > encompass this? >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Travis Ruthenburg > bjork bjork bjork > travis@trickster.net >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 17:37:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28E41519C for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:37:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.nmhtech.com) Received: by xwin.nmhtech.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 750AF2EE1B; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 4268 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990506100852.A22781@best.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 17:37:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: "Jan B. Koum" Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) Cc: parker@Yahoo-inc.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Ben Manes Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 06-May-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Jan B. Koum wrote: > Derek is a local PITA. Good thing he has no voice and even himself > is forced to run FreeBSD on his desktop. Hehe. I love Yahoo. ;) >=20 > Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather > see that happen, then oracle on NT. >=20 > -- Yan Hi Yan Uh... Like Oracle does run on FreeBSD.... Nicole >=20 > On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 09:57:35AM -0700, Ben Manes wro= te: >>=20 >> might interest a few of you... >>=20 >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:17:10 -0700 >> From: Derek J. Balling >> To: svlug@svlug.org >> Subject: [svlug] *sigh* >>=20 >> OK, examples of why/where Linux FAILS in the real world. >>=20 >> I work for a Large Web Company. (read the headers, do the math). We are = a >> FreeBSD shop. We are installing Oracle. There is no Oracle for FreeBSD. >> Derek suggests Linux. Derek receives the usual sighs and groans in >> anticipation of the usual BSD<->Linux flame-war that occurs between myse= lf >> and Jan (our security guy, who ALSO happens to be >> security-officer@freebsd.org so I'm told). >>=20 >> Issue # 1: Get the DPT controller working. >>=20 >> Motherboard has SCSI built onboard but nothing attached to it. In PCI0 i= s a >> spiffy DPT3334 dual-channel SCSI controller. Great, use the EATA-DMA >> driver and away we go. >>=20 >> Except that for some reason Linux doesn't SEE the DPT controller unless = we >> completely disable onboard NCR driver. Never mind that maybe our origina= l >> intent was to boot off the NCR and let the DPT handle the RAID system fo= r >> Oracle. Linux won't even touch the DPT until we tell the BIOS to pretend >> that the NCR doesn't exist. >>=20 >>=20 >> Issue #2: Choose your preference -- SMP or the ability to USE the box >>=20 >> The person who did the install (before I got there) installed Red Hat >> 5.2... which is all well and good except that RH5.2 out of the box doesn= 't >> know squat about SMP. Considering all the "advances" between 5.2 and 6.0= , >> silly me says "well, just upgrade to 6.0 for the SMP support and everyth= ing >> will be great." >>=20 >> So now, after all is said and done, I have a choice -- reinstall 5.2 and >> not have SMP support, or have SMP support and a complete inability to >> compile basic simple tools like "ssh". =20 >>=20 >> No, I cannot just use the RPM for ssh. (is there even one? certainly not >> from RH)=20 >>=20 >> Is there ANY QA being done by RH before they release their code? I would >> think the inability to freakin compile would be something that they MIGH= T >> consider checking? It's not just SSH from what I can tell by reading on >> Deja News but other minor things like BIND, Kerberos, etc. >>=20 >> Any suggestions on how I should get this box operational TODAY using >> something other than NT would be greatly appreciated. But from my >> employer's perspective, Linux's second-chance-at-a-first-impression came >> and went (the first being years ago when we compared BSD/Linux and chose >> BSD) and I don't see it getting a third shot after this debacle. >>=20 >> D >>=20 >> -- >> echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo@svlug.org >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ to unsubscribe >> see http://www.svlug.org/mdstuff/lists.shtml for posting guidelines. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message |\ __ /| (`\ =20 | o_o |__ ) ) =20 // \\ =20 nicole@nmhtech.com | http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | http://www.dangermouse.org -------------------------(((---(((----------------------- =20 - Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD - - Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman - =20 - I'm not ADD - I'm just Multithreaded - - Microsoft: What bug would you like today? - ---------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 17:45:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EECD151BD for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:45:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id RAA04511; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id RAA14463; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:44:57 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn5.utah.xylan.com) by omni.xylan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1 (xylan engr [SPOOL])) id AA25374; Thu, 6 May 99 17:44:54 PDT Message-Id: <37323784.2C782940@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 18:44:52 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Tim T Seidl Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linus on BSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tim T Seidl wrote: > > http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/Linuschat990505.html > > Jon Lewis from atlantic.net at 2:46pm ET > What's your opinion on the various BSD's vs Linux? BSD > proponents still claim the BSD networking code is > cleaner/faster than the Linux code and that BSD in > general is more salable. In your opinion, is any > of this still true? It was a poor question. Anyone who's looked at both will tell you the BSD networking code is cleaner, but you'll never get Linus to admit that, as he infers below. Most proponents who claim any BSD to be more salable that Linux don't do so on the grounds of the code, but rather on licensing issues. > Linus Torvalds at 2:47pm ET > No. > > What did you expect me to say, seriously? Ask a rhetorical question, get a rhetorical answer, right? > Actually, I think the major lack in BSD is the lack of > interest and the fact that they haven't really gotten > people worked up about their cause. A lot of them seem > to be fairly old-fashioned ("we cater to the /original/ > UNIX people") or just to have given up on the market. > They aren't hungry enough, I think. This is (as usual) a pretty fair summation. I'd like to point out in this forum that many of us, me included, don't necessarily want all of the kinds of "worked up" people Linux has attracted in the past year. One important distinction Linus hasn't noted is that we're catering not only to the /original/ UNIX people, but to /all/ UNIX people. Our real message is for those who know, understand, and *like* UNIX: We're the best, you belong here, and you can help to keep us the best. This includes those who learned about UNIX by installing and playing with Linux, and are now looking for an upgrade. We're happy to leave the perpetually clueless to Linux, and vice versa. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 18:10:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.click2net.com (mail.click2net.com [216.94.59.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9C915396 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:10:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from geoff@click2net.com) Received: from click2net.com (sparrow.click2net.com [216.94.59.226]) by mail.click2net.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA13297 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 21:12:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from geoff@click2net.com) Message-ID: <37323DE5.5E948F2A@click2net.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 21:12:05 -0400 From: Geoffrey Robinson Organization: Click2net inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Greater Toronto Area FreeBSD User's Group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm sending this email to announce my intention to form a FreeBSD users group in the Greater Toronto Area. The Greater Toronto Area, for the unfamiliar, is composed of over a dozen cities in 4 regional municipalities (Halton, Peel, York and Durham) surrounding Metro Toronto located in the province of Ontario, Canada. To get the organization started future co-founder Dan Moschuk and I are prepared to supply a server on a dedicated connection, mailing lists and a domain name. If anybody living or working in the GTA is at all interested in becoming a member please contact me ASAP. Membership will be free and open to everybody. Before we officially create the organization we want to see some indication that there is an interest and that our efforts will not be wasted. -- Geoffrey Robinson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 19:48:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E74415128 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 19:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA41528 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 19:49:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Some good news for people looking for the FreeBSD CD Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 19:49:02 -0700 Message-ID: <41524.926045342@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Walnut Creek CDROM has just finalized an agreement with Ingram Micro, the largest distributor in the U.S. (and possibly the world), to distribute the FreeBSD CDROM and upcoming retail box set. This means that you should start seeing the product turn up in stores like CompUSA, Fry's (more consistently, anyway - we've been at a number of Fry's stores for awhile), etc. If you are dealing with a local store who complains at not being able to get ahold of the product, please tell them to talk to Ingram and they'll almost certainly go "Oh, is that all I have to do? Why didn't you say so in the first place!" The SKUs they need to know are: FreeBSD 143452 FreeBSD PowerPak 143453 (The PowerPak is a retail box containing a book and 2 CD sets - the main product and the FreeBSD toolkit). Thanks, - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 20: 2:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nw171.netaddress.usa.net (nw171.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EA0F615236 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:02:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 17288 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 1999 03:02:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990507030234.17287.qmail@nw171.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.71 by nw171 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Fri May 7 03:02:34 GMT 1999 Date: 6 May 99 20:02:34 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Nicole Harrington , BAFUG chat , Bill Rollins Subject: Re: [Re: Whats a FreeBSD advocate to do?] Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nicole Harrington wrote: > = >..........[SNIP].......... > I'm sure we at BAFUG can organise an event for Envelope labeling = > and such to > make a mass mailing and donate as much postage as possible and solicit > donations for what we can't do. > = > Now a great companion for this would be if someone has or wanted to = > create a > small 10-20 Page instalation and setup guide that we can photocopy and = > put in > along with it..... > = > Anyone out there in BAFUG land handy with Database to label creation o= n > FreeBSD? > = What exactly do you have in mind? --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 20: 6:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (dyn1-tnt6-50.chicago.il.ameritech.net [199.179.167.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76DCF15236 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:06:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@stox.sa.enteract.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.stox.sa.enteract.com [127.0.0.1]) by m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA12250 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 22:06:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:06:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" Reply-To: stox@enteract.com To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linus on BSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I recently spend a fair amount of time with Linus while he was here in Chicago, for COMDEX. We had a rather long discussion, with only a few interruptions from Linux groupies, and he had some interesting comments. I will pass down what I think will be of interest to the FreeBSD community and maybe give some more context to the comments he made to ABC along with my spin on the situation. First of all, I should state that although I did not agree with everything he had to say, Linus was an extremely knowledgeable and well spoken fellow. He was not afraid to make his opinions in a clear and forthright fashion. He is a big fan of the DEC-Alpha architecture, and obviously thinks that it is the lineage to follow for the future. ( Well, I suspect until Transmeta has something better ;-) In the course of our discussion, I asked him what he thought of FreeBSD, He spoke very highly of FreeBSD and of our illustrious Jordan. He seemed to have a great deal of respect for the technical achievements of FreeBSD. He did not speak highly of the NetBSD and OpenBSD efforts, however. The one harsh criticism he had for the FreeBSD effort, is our apparent ceding of the desktop to focus on servers. I might add, this is a criticism Linus has of all the existing commercial vendors of UNIX. Linus seems to feel that this is the mistake that UNIX vendors have been making for years, thus losing focus upon many user related issues. I think I agree with Linus on this important point. The desktop is the entry into the user's mind. Let's face it, many, if not most, systems out there are chosen by people who are already familiar with the product. Benchmarks and awards are used to justify the decision they have already made, not to make the initial decision. If people actually followed the process that most of us would like, making rational decisions based on hard data, NT would be in the minority, and FreeBSD would be one of the most popular operating systems around. I suspect that Linus actually views FreeBSD as tough competition to Linux. He also views himself, rightfully so, as a representative for the community he helped to start, and thus has a responsibility to push that agenda as hard as he can. He is the leading Linux evangelist, well maybe second leading, Mad-Dog is a pretty tough act to beat. Given those standpoints, he is correct in the statements he made, although I do not think he is right. You will notice that he evades the actual point of the question ( Hmmm, someone has been getting some good P/R coaching, don't answer the questions you don't want to and focus on the issues you do. ) He completely avoids making any technical comparison of FreeBSD to Linux, but chooses to focus of the popularity and media attention that Linux has received vs. BSD's. He makes no statement regarding the technical merits. If pushed in this regard, he would probably focus on the weakest points of NetBSD and OpenBSD, and conveniently neglect direct comparison with FreeBSD. In response to this, I have come to the following conclusions: 1) We must not cede the desktop, but trumpet it. We're damn good on the desktop, we're even better on the server. Linux and NT are disappointments when moved from the desktop to a server roles, FreeBSD is a joy. 2) We must emphasize the advantages of mature code, as opposed to the "But it's new" attitude that dominates the Linux domain. This is the same attitude that dominates the NT cesspool. If it's new, it must be better. I think most of us have long come to the conclusion that new is not necessarily better. Evolution works far better. FreeBSD, evolved to be the best! 3) We must emphasize our commitment to quality over novelty. No we don't support the most hardware and applications. However, those we do are of high quality. Running FreeBSD is not a continuous experiment ( unless you're running current, of course. ) A user can count on FreeBSD to be stable, robust and secure. 4) We must define the field we are going to play the game on. As long as we allow others to define the playing field, we are at disadvantage. We need to convince the market of the merits of FreeBSD, and how they outweigh the apparent advantages of the competition. 5) We must not let ourselves be pulled into the field where we are labeled as "old-fashioned." We must turn that around to be the field of wisdom and experience. We must not allow ourselves to be defined as spoilsports to the Linux community, just another community that has a more mature viewpoint and a more thought out solution. I think that FreeBSD will have some enormous opportunities in the near future. I suspect that many will migrate to Linux to be stymied by its current limitations. We can offer effective answers to those problems. We support 4GB of physical memory. We support > 2GB files. Many people are coming to realize that these limitations are constraining them severely on their servers. Our window of ooportunity is now, it won't stay this open for that much longer. Well, I'll get off my soapbox now, -Ken Stox stox@imagescape.com On Thu, 6 May 1999, Tim T Seidl wrote: > > http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/Linuschat990505.html > > > Jon Lewis from atlantic.net at 2:46pm ET > What's your opinion on the various BSD's vs Linux? BSD > proponents still claim the BSD networking code is > cleaner/faster than the Linux code and that BSD in > general is more salable. In your opinion, is any > of this still true? > > Linus Torvalds at 2:47pm ET > No. > > What did you expect me to say, seriously? > > Actually, I think the major lack in BSD is the lack of > interest and the fact that they haven't really gotten > people worked up about their cause. A lot of them seem > to be fairly old-fashioned ("we cater to the /original/ > UNIX people") or just to have given up on the market. > They aren't hungry enough, I think. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 20:38:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (mavery-gw.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7027B14D0F for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:38:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA03080 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 22:47:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905070347.WAA03080@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.44); 6 May 99 22:38:52 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.44); 6 May 99 22:38:41 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:38:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Some good news for people looking for the FreeBSD CD Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com In-reply-to: <41524.926045342@zippy.cdrom.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.10) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 6 May 99, at 19:49, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Walnut Creek CDROM has just finalized an agreement with Ingram Micro, the > largest distributor in the U.S. (and possibly the world), to distribute > the FreeBSD CDROM and upcoming retail box set. This means that you should > start seeing the product turn up in stores like CompUSA, Fry's (more > consistently, anyway - we've been at a number of Fry's stores for awhile), > etc. GREAT!!!! Wonderful!! Now to get people going into the stores and asking for 'em... and buying 'em! How soon will the vendors be able to order the part and get it? Mike > If you are dealing with a local store who complains at not being able to > get ahold of the product, please tell them to talk to Ingram and they'll > almost certainly go "Oh, is that all I have to do? Why didn't you say so > in the first place!" The SKUs they need to know are: > > FreeBSD 143452 > FreeBSD PowerPak 143453 > > (The PowerPak is a retail box containing a book and 2 CD sets - the > main product and the FreeBSD toolkit). > > Thanks, > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: All I want for Christmas is a box of Smurfs and a mallet! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 20:57:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14D714FDD for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA41926; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:57:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: stox@enteract.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linus on BSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 May 1999 22:06:36 CDT." Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 20:57:36 -0700 Message-ID: <41922.926049456@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [reasonable summation of Linus's position elided] > > 1) We must not cede the desktop, but trumpet it. We're damn good > on the desktop, we're even better on the server. Linux and NT > are disappointments when moved from the desktop to a server > roles, FreeBSD is a joy. Well, here's where I must beg to differ with you. As I've noted in past postings to this advocacy list, my personal predilection for focusing on the server market stems from a combination of two factors, not just one: a) My disinclination to charge machine gun nests and other positions of strength which I have the option of flanking. b) My fundamental disappointment with the FreeBSD *community's* commitment to the desktop. I don't see joy, I see gaping holes in what we offer and have always offered. I didn't start out in FreeBSD with the feeling that our only hope of salvation lay in focusing on our strengths, that being primarily the server market, since if you have enough guys you can even charge machine gun nests successfully if you're willing and able to pay the price. I was more than willing to fight a two-front war for the server and the desktop, but I also became rapidly disillusioned of this when the guys who were supposed to be fighting for the desktop never showed up. I should not have been particularly surprised at this, I suppose, given that since this project's inception, it's been driven by user demand and our users have, by and large, come from ISP and "old Unix guard" demographics. Our users have been people who's primary interest lies in FreeBSD machines sitting in server rooms and essentially doing network-based rather than desktop-based services. Seeking to change this, we've had desktop contests, we've had logo competitions, we've done all sorts of things to try and interest people in desktop-shaped things but, with a few notable exceptions (the bt848 folks, Luigi, etc), we just haven't been very successful at it. At some point you simply have to declare a losing strategy for what it is and that's what I was eventually forced to do with the desktop; I didn't start out with that opinion, it was simply one forced on me by pragmatism. That said, I can still see this changing as more and more people start getting more involved at a technical level (seeing someone actively working on adding MIDI support to our current sound driver was, for example, a very encouraging development) and that's essentially what it's going to take. Being credible on the desktop has never been something held up by marketing, believe it or not, since you first have to have something, anything, to market before you can start that phase and we've never gotten that far with FreeBSD on the desktop. The desktop installation, even with the small improvements I've made for 3.2, is minimal at best and support by 3rd party multimedia ISVs (things like RealAudio G3, Macromedia plug-ins, etc) almost non-existent for FreeBSD. You can't just pull this stuff out of thin air, either, you have to address it and you need to put a LOT of time into crafting comfortable desktop environments for the beginning user before any cozy sound-bites on how FreeBSD is now buddy-buddy with the desktop will sound even remotely credible. Do I see people out there who are finally willing to *do the work* of making FreeBSD a credible desktop solution or do I simply see the usual array of faces wondering when it's going to happen by sheer magic? :-) - Jordan P.S. If you need ideas for where to start, just go install the very latest SuSE or Red Hat Linux distributions sometime. They don't do a *lot* more than we do, and in some areas they do considerably less, but the areas where they do honestly hold the user's hand more effectively are nonetheless instructive. Learn from them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu May 6 21: 0:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 091A014FDD for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 21:00:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA41973; Thu, 6 May 1999 21:00:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some good news for people looking for the FreeBSD CD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 May 1999 22:38:38 CDT." <199905070347.WAA03080@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 21:00:44 -0700 Message-ID: <41970.926049644@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > How soon will the vendors be able to order the part and get it? More or less immediately. Those SKUs mean that Ingram has essentially processed it through their system. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 1:25:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A080D15B25 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 01:25:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 07 May 1999 09:20:25 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk ([10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id K2JT79PV; Fri, 7 May 1999 09:12:46 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10ffvS-0003LE-00; Fri, 7 May 1999 09:24:06 +0100 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Jan B. Koum " , Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) X-Mailer: nmh-1.0 X-Colour: Green Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of "Thu, 06 May 1999 15:03:46 PDT" <40655.926028226@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:24:06 +0100 From: Dom Mitchell Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 6 May 1999, "Jordan K. Hubbard" proclaimed: > > Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather > > see that happen, then oracle on NT. > > Erm, why didn't you point him at: > > http://www.freebsd.org.ru/linux-oracle.HOW-TO.html > > Or any of the other howtos on running Linux oracle on FreeBSD? Seems like a post to FreeBSD-announce listing these might not go amiss. As well as a FAQ entry. Hmmm... Modifying Q5.4 might well do. Actually, looking at the FAQ, is there any reason why it still says "For 2.x"? -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Value of 2 may go down as well as up" -- FORTRAN programmers manual -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 2: 4:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 758211501E for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 02:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03056; Fri, 7 May 1999 02:05:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Dom Mitchell Cc: "Jan B. Koum " , Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 May 1999 09:24:06 BST." Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 02:05:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3052.926067915@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Actually, looking at the FAQ, is there any reason why it still says "For > 2.x"? Because it is - nobody's really actively maintaining it. :( - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 3:32:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from home (unknown [203.0.93.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B9F014E7C for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 03:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jsutton@genesis.net.au) Received: from localhost (jsutton@localhost) by home (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA12409; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:32:41 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: stargate.home: jsutton owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 20:32:40 +1000 (EST) From: Joel Sutton X-Sender: jsutton@stargate.home To: Nicole Harrington Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [ADV] Re: www.tunelinux.com - an interesting idea... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> It sounds like a good idea, but we should also come up with > >>something original, and stop being one step behind the Linux > >>crowd in the creative advocacy sites. I agree. All we need now are some original ideas.... > >> Perhaps somebody generous enough to spare some bandwidth for a > >>site that would carry various custom configurations (in > >>pkg_add-able format?) for various things. The availibility of it > >>_could_ win over the management types, and the lazier sysadmins > >>out there. ;) I like this idea, but wouldn't it be better to keep these packages in the ports collection? > Put something together and I will try to swing it for you. I'd be willing to put something together with PHP3. > I would need to know: > 1) Expected disk space needed. I'm not sure about this one. It would really depend on the popularity of the project. This would be a knowledge base rather than a "file store" so that should limit the space required somewhat. We'd have to define some limits in both disk space, types of information and the age of the information. > 2) Other resouces needed (I assume just web server and ftp server is needed) Apache PHP3 MySql/Postrgresql FTP server (for packages???) > 3) Who would be in charge of the project Someone who knows about performace tuning systems. This really rules me out. :-) A show of hands perhaps? For the information to be effective there would need to be some sort of approval process - which translates to someones time unfortunately... Cheers, Joel... --- Joel Sutton | Busy Bee Consulting Phone: 0409 426-563 | Melbourne, Australia Email: jsutton@genesis.net.au | http://www.genesis.net.au/~jsutton VicFUG Webmaster/Acting President | http://www.vicfug.au.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 5:39:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD67C14CFD for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 05:39:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id FAA20646; Fri, 7 May 1999 05:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990507053425.A20065@best.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 05:34:25 -0700 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) References: <19990506100852.A22781@best.com> <40655.926028226@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <40655.926028226@zippy.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 03:03:46PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 03:03:46PM -0700, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > Derek is a local PITA. Good thing he has no voice and even himself > > is forced to run FreeBSD on his desktop. Hehe. I love Yahoo. ;) > > > > Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather > > see that happen, then oracle on NT. > > Erm, why didn't you point him at: > > http://www.freebsd.org.ru/linux-oracle.HOW-TO.html > > Or any of the other howtos on running Linux oracle on FreeBSD? > > - Jordan The reason we had to go with RedHat was because that is what Oracle will oficially support. Not Debian. Not SuSE. Not FreeBSD (the other Linux distribution). I have yet to talk to our local DBA and find out how many times a month he calls oracle for support and if it is an OS level support or not? -- Yan -- "My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse. In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up. If you're using it on a single box, that's one thing. But if you want to use Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long way to go." - Ken Thompson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 5:51:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C455B14CFD for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 05:51:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA89901; Fri, 7 May 1999 05:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 May 1999 05:34:25 PDT." <19990507053425.A20065@best.com> Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 05:48:28 -0700 Message-ID: <89890.926081308@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The reason we had to go with RedHat was because that is what > Oracle will oficially support. Not Debian. Not SuSE. Not FreeBSD (the > other Linux distribution). I thought Yahoo had some sort of deal with Oracle to get a FreeBSD native version at one point. Whatever happened to Yahoo's "special relationship" with the Oracle folks, anyway? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 7: 3:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay03.netaddress.usa.net (relay03.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A3FA1510E for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 7645 invoked from network); 7 May 1999 14:03:31 -0000 Received: from nw179.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.79) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 7 May 1999 14:03:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 16647 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 1999 14:03:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990507140331.16646.qmail@nw179.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.79 by nw179 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Fri May 7 14:03:29 GMT 1999 Date: 7 May 99 07:03:29 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Jordan K.Hubbard , stox@enteract.com Subject: The Old Guard and Sheer Magic (Was: Re: [Re: linus on BSD ]) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, Jordan, I'm finally doing as you requested. I read you message and now I'm going to take a shower. See you in 60 minutes. =2E.......... Musch better, now...... "Without harmony in the state, no military expedition can be undertaken; without harmony in the army, no battle array can be formed." --The Art of War; Chapter 7, pg. 30 Sun Tzu tranlation by James Clavell ISBN: 0-385-29985-0 Before starting, let me say that it was my intention to NOT write to these channels. For as I see it, these channels are weak and without substance. However, my notion is not quite correct as many people who I used to know now seem only to be here. None the less, let us continue.......... "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > [reasonable summation of Linus's position elided] > > > > 1) We must not cede the desktop, but trumpet it. We're damn good = > > on the desktop, we're even better on the server. Linux and NT > > are disappointments when moved from the desktop to a server > > roles, FreeBSD is a joy. > = > Well, here's where I must beg to differ with you. As I've noted in > past postings to this advocacy list, my personal predilection for > focusing on the server market stems from a combination of two factors, > not just one: > = > a) My disinclination to charge machine gun nests and other positions > of strength which I have the option of flanking. > The natural formation of the country is the solder's best ally;... Pg 53. > b) My fundamental disappointment with the FreeBSD *community's* > commitment to the desktop. I don't see joy, I see gaping > holes in what we offer and have always offered. > = >.......[SNIP]......... > = > Do I see people out there who are finally willing to *do the work* of > making FreeBSD a credible desktop solution or do I simply see the > usual array of faces wondering when it's going to happen by sheer > magic? :-) > = When asked why I got into computers I usually don't have a straight answer or one that I can recall. However, I do recall why I came to *BSD and UNIX. Overwhelmingly, I saw hope and opportunity. While I've seen $$ come and go, very little of it has passed = through my hands. This, never the less, does not despair me. I can recall my first TRUE venture in to *BSD was immediately after one of Bill Jolitzs talks on the upcoming 386BSD articles that was SCHEDULED to be released. I was estatic(sp?) to learn = that work on the (never implemented) floppy driver was incomplete. = I found my niche, my goal, = my new turning point in life. I was charged. As years passed and as luck (or destiny) would have it Bill was upset when I told him that some of his writings (The Basic Kernel) were "ramblings". I learned this after "THE 1.0 Meeting" at SUN in one of the most crowded, publicized and contraversial(sp?) meetings ever for SVNET (now strangely, the PC portion of that group is SVLUG). I remember distinctly Lynn Jolitiz standing up and remarking that "at least we have documentation, unlike some other RED CD-ROMs in release". (At the time FreeBSD had a red release cover.) This promptly was followed by two (2) people stomping out of the room. I was to learn, years later, that one of those persons was Jordan. (Life is funny) Later Lynn confessed she was talking about SUNs release not FreeBSD, which also had a red cover. It was too late. = The damage was done. This meeting was in stark contrast to the 0.0 install-a-thon which John Sokol and I remember quite well. This meeting had 60 people show up. Four (4) were listening to a = speach about some new Apple media type (I think Quicktime), the rest were copying diskette with an array of laptops and desktop machines. Mind you, there were only 4 sets of diskettes (with source) total and a few of the diskettes seem to be corrupted. To make matters worse we were all thrown out and asked to go in the hallway. Why does this matter? How does this contrast to today? Back then we were charged that we would finally have an opportunity to topple AT&T. Yes, the same AT&T that weeks earlier had lent us there conference rooms (for years mind you), was now, at least our common foe. Years past with the settlement and other embattle issues, but here is nail that is resting, waiting, hoping to seal the coffin on UNIX and *BSD. = = If some of you will recall, one of our foes after 0.1, besides AT&T was BSDI. Now I'm not here to castigate(sp?) BSDI, but here are the facts. = In, or around 1993/94 M$, came to BSDI and asked them for a TCP/IP stack that they could use without royalties. They said yes; $2 Million was the settlement price. Anyway you look at it neither FreeBSD, nor Linux, nor Win95, nor the Internet would be anywhere nears the size the collective is today, if this deal had not happened. The resulting prospect was AT&T, IBM and other large conglamorites have toppled. The world is very different from years ago and I know for a fact that FreeBSD has had an impact on the world as we know it today. = The truth, as I see it, all of you have changed the world, but now the laurels of advancement are tearing weaknesses into heart of progress. --- I know this is long winded, but I'm almost done. --- Along the way to 1.0, one of my suggestions was a better medium of communications. Someone suggested WWW vs. WAIS,gopher,ftp or newsgroups. Well, much to my surprise the better medium is here; and what do I see?!? Infantil diatribe on ancient methodigize of communications. = Now, don't get me wrong, but I like typing as a form of communications just like the rest of you, but what I see = in the form of alternate communications is pathetic. = We know, at the present, that FreeBSD is more popular with ISPs and in foreign countries. However, I have yet to see a network diagram, a state machine or a reference chart (matrix). Are you people morons or what? Do I really have to rant like a raving lunatic for some of you to wake up. This is more than pathetic. My six year old niece has learned that color are nice and she can get a message = across, especially to GrandMa and GrandPa who are better at speaking spanish than english. Now I know LSD was invented a Berkeley, but do we have to export that with the kernel as well. --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 7: 6:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from server.computeralt.com (server.computeralt.com [207.41.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F05015330 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@computeralt.com) Received: from scott (scott.computeralt.com [207.41.29.100]) by server.computeralt.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28812 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.37.19990507100556.033edf00@mail.computeralt.com> X-Sender: scott@mail.computeralt.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.37 (Beta) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 10:06:50 -0400 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: "Scott I. Remick" Subject: SunWorld Article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just noticed this article in SunWorld: "Why I run FreeBSD" ----------------------- Scott I. Remick scott@computeralt.com Network and Information (802)388-7545 ext. 236 Systems Manager FAX:(802)388-3697 Computer Alternatives, Inc. http://www.computeralt.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 7:15:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay02.netaddress.usa.net (relay02.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02D2C15352 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:15:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 14106 invoked from network); 7 May 1999 14:15:50 -0000 Received: from nwcst057.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.57) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 7 May 1999 14:15:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 12958 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 1999 14:15:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990507141550.12957.qmail@nwcst057.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.57 by nwcst057 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Fri May 7 14:15:48 GMT 1999 Date: 7 May 99 07:15:48 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Jordan K.Hubbard , Dom Mitchell Subject: Re: [Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) ] Cc: Jan B.Koum , Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > Actually, looking at the FAQ, is there any reason why it still says "= For > > 2.x"? > = > Because it is - nobody's really actively maintaining it. :( > = What would it entail to activelly maintain it? --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 7:27:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay03.netaddress.usa.net (relay03.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E3CCF14FA4 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 12558 invoked from network); 7 May 1999 14:27:25 -0000 Received: from nw128.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.28) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 7 May 1999 14:27:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 2416 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 1999 14:27:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19990507142725.2415.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.28 by nw128 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Fri May 7 14:27:24 GMT 1999 Date: 7 May 99 07:27:24 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Jordan K.Hubbard , Jan B.Koum Subject: Re: [Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) ] Cc: Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > The reason we had to go with RedHat was because that is what > > Oracle will oficially support. Not Debian. Not SuSE. Not FreeBSD (the= > > other Linux distribution). > = > I thought Yahoo had some sort of deal with Oracle to get a FreeBSD > native version at one point. Whatever happened to Yahoo's "special > relationship" with the Oracle folks, anyway? :-) > = Perhaps we might recall Oracle investing in RH. --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 7:36:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (mail.palmerharvey.co.uk [62.172.109.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45BC615162 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:36:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dom.Mitchell@palmerharvey.co.uk) Received: from ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk (unverified) by mail.palmerharvey.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 07 May 1999 15:36:24 +0100 Received: from voodoo.pandhm.co.uk ([10.100.35.12]) by ho-nt-01.pandhm.co.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id K2JT79X4; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:28:44 +0100 Received: from dom by voodoo.pandhm.co.uk with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10flnI-0003xO-00; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:40:04 +0100 To: Jesus Monroy Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , "Jan B. Koum" , Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) ] X-Mailer: nmh-1.0 X-Colour: Green Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane In-Reply-To: Jesus Monroy's message of "07 May 1999 07:27:24 PDT" <19990507142725.2415.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 15:40:03 +0100 From: Dom Mitchell Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 7 May 1999, Jesus Monroy proclaimed: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > The reason we had to go with RedHat was because that is what > > > Oracle will oficially support. Not Debian. Not SuSE. Not FreeBSD (the > > > other Linux distribution). > > > > I thought Yahoo had some sort of deal with Oracle to get a FreeBSD > > native version at one point. Whatever happened to Yahoo's "special > > relationship" with the Oracle folks, anyway? :-) > > Perhaps we might recall Oracle investing in RH. Or indeed, Oracle's previous investment in Network Computers (which happened to be based upon {Net,Free}BSD. -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Value of 2 may go down as well as up" -- FORTRAN programmers manual -- ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 8:13: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B0D150D9 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 08:12:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA10028; Fri, 7 May 1999 08:12:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 08:12:43 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Ben Manes , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) Message-ID: <19990507081243.D9835@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com References: <19990506100852.A22781@best.com> <40655.926028226@zippy.cdrom.com> <19990507053425.A20065@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990507053425.A20065@best.com>; from Jan B. Koum on Fri, May 07, 1999 at 05:34:25AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 07, 1999 at 05:34:25AM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 03:03:46PM -0700, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > Derek is a local PITA. Good thing he has no voice and even himself > > > is forced to run FreeBSD on his desktop. Hehe. I love Yahoo. ;) > > > > > > Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather > > > see that happen, then oracle on NT. > > > > Erm, why didn't you point him at: > > > > http://www.freebsd.org.ru/linux-oracle.HOW-TO.html > > > > Or any of the other howtos on running Linux oracle on FreeBSD? > > > > - Jordan > > The reason we had to go with RedHat was because that is what > Oracle will oficially support. Not Debian. Not SuSE. Not FreeBSD (the > other Linux distribution). Dummy question number 4 at an Install-A-Thon, "Is this a Linux distribution" Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 10:23:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [208.139.222.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86DE15247 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:23:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA15356; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:23:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id MAA18270; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:23:45 -0500 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id MAA14492; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:23:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:23:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199905071723.MAA14492@free.pcs> To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-advocacy In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: >On Fri, May 07, 1999 at 05:34:25AM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: >> On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 03:03:46PM -0700, "Jordan K. Hubbard" > wrote: >> > > Derek is a local PITA. Good thing he has no voice and even himself >> > > is forced to run FreeBSD on his desktop. Hehe. I love Yahoo. ;) >> > > >> > > Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather >> > > see that happen, then oracle on NT. >> > >> > Erm, why didn't you point him at: >> > >> > http://www.freebsd.org.ru/linux-oracle.HOW-TO.html >> > >> > Or any of the other howtos on running Linux oracle on FreeBSD? >> > >> > - Jordan >> >> The reason we had to go with RedHat was because that is what >> Oracle will oficially support. Not Debian. Not SuSE. Not FreeBSD (the >> other Linux distribution). > >Dummy question number 4 at an Install-A-Thon, "Is this a Linux distribution" Marketing answer: "Yes, it most certainly is! In fact, it will run your Linux applications faster than RedHat! As an additional bonus, we also have an extensive collection of software called ``ports'', which is specially designed for this distribution!" -- Jonathan (now, where did I put that smiley....) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 11:40:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from cygnus.rush.net (cygnus.rush.net [209.45.245.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FAC14E46 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 11:40:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@rush.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by cygnus.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA07076; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:00:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:00:00 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: John Reynolds~ , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: from -chat, Re: Mindcruft ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 7 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > John Reynolds~ writes: > > I wonder how we could get in on this fun ... > > > > http://www.mindcraft.com/openbenchmark.html > > > > I'm sure that 3.1-STABLE or some other variant could compete quite well at > > this little game ... > > No. Don't you get it? The game is rigged. Mindcraft gets big money > from Microsoft for doing these tests and making sure NT comes out on > top. It's risky, but since they are allowing the "Linux experts" access to the machines to do tuning, and the benchmark specifications are sort of "open". Although it gives me a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach, I don't really see how this could be "rigged". I don't think this should be so easily dismissed, some of FreeBSD's finest should look into doing this. Not only would they get fame, but so would the project... *cough* DG *cough* :) I'm not saying it _should_ be done because I don't have enough knowledge about FreeBSD tuning to compete in such an event, I'm just saying someone *cough* David *cough* might want to look into it. If played right it could put FreeBSD in _quite_ a good spot... -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 12:11:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A926A14DB1 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:10:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13190; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21074; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 15:10:51 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Eric Wayte Subject: Re: PCWeek article by Anne Chen -- Comments Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy , John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We've told them that but they aren't convinced. :( On 06-May-99 Eric Wayte wrote: > Ah, but those texts have been written: "Unix for Dummies," "Mastering > Unix," etc. FreeBSD is more Unix than Linux - that's why the Linux crowd > has to have all of these "special" books! > > FreeBSD == Unix > Linux == Unix like > > Even WinNT can be made Unix like, as far as the commands go - I use the vi > that comes with the POSIX kit in the WinNT Workstation Resource Kit. > > > Eric Wayte, DBA > Univ. of Central Florida > ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu > > > On Wed, 5 May 1999, John Baldwin wrote: > >> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:24:48 -0400 (EDT) >> From: John Baldwin >> To: Brett Glass >> Cc: FreeBSD Advocacy , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, >> Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai >> Subject: Re: PCWeek article by Anne Chen -- Comments >> >> >> On 05-May-99 Brett Glass wrote: >> > Those who are fostering awareness and encouraging change ARE contributing. >> > Coding is only one way to contribute, and at this point it is not even >> > the most important way. Gain more mindshare and a devoted following, and >> > the coders will follow. >> >> I agree. As I've said a couple of times now, the CS department here at Va >> Tech >> is considering switching from FreeBSD to Linux. All of the technical staff >> in >> the department support FreeBSD, but some of the professors don't use that to >> make their decisions. They decide based on what they read in PC Magazine >> over >> breakfast. They are looking specifically for FreeBSD in a shrink-wrapped >> boxes, or books on FreeBSD. They would love to see "Mastering FreeBSD", >> "FreeBSD Unleashed!", "FreeBSD for Dummies", etc. They are trying to >> satisfy >> employer's wants, and right now they see more companies going for Linux than >> FreeBSD. Technical merits such as a unified kernel and userland, central >> source repository, and the ports system can only get us so far. We each >> have >> to advocate in as many different ways as we can. And as Brett has said, >> marketing and coding are two different things and not people are good at one >> are good at the other. I'm a sys admin/coder who aspires to being a kernel >> hacker someday. Marketing is not my strength, so while I'll do what I can, >> some people are going to promote FreeBSD differently and in some ways more >> effectively than I do. >> >> > --Brett Glass >> >> --- >> >> John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ >> PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc >> "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >> --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 12:39:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B3B14D8D for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost (billf@localhost) by jade.chc-chimes.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA18571 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:41:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:41:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: advocacy web pages Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why aren't the pages the make up the advocacy site in our CVS tree? Every other project we do falls under one development model with one source repository. Why is this different? - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 13:18:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw2.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC58115086 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-13-65.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.13.65]) by mail-gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06175; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:17:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02757; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:19:11 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:19:09 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Bill Fumerola Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: advocacy web pages Message-ID: <19990507151909.J1526@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Bill Fumerola on Fri, May 07, 1999 at 03:41:16PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 7, 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > > Why aren't the pages the make up the advocacy site in our CVS tree? > > Every other project we do falls under one development model with one > source repository. Why is this different? Different system. In my opinion, putting advocacy in the CVS tree is impractical. There is a CVS tree on advocacy.freebsd.org, however. > > - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - > - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > -- Chris Costello Never put off till run-time what you can do at compile-time. - D. Gries To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 13:23: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (mavery-gw.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 652C0155B0 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA04456 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:32:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905072032.PAA04456@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.44); 7 May 99 15:22:52 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.44); 7 May 99 15:22:37 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 15:22:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: from -chat, Re: Mindcruft ... Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.10) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 7 May 99, at 14:00, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On 7 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > John Reynolds~ writes: > > > I wonder how we could get in on this fun ... > > > http://www.mindcraft.com/openbenchmark.html > > > > > > I'm sure that 3.1-STABLE or some other variant could compete quite > > > well at this little game ... > > > > No. Don't you get it? The game is rigged. Mindcraft gets big money > > from Microsoft for doing these tests and making sure NT comes out on > > top. > It's risky, but since they are allowing the "Linux experts" access > to the machines to do tuning, and the benchmark specifications are > sort of "open". Although it gives me a bad feeling in the pit of > my stomach, I don't really see how this could be "rigged". > I don't think this should be so easily dismissed, some of FreeBSD's > finest should look into doing this. Not only would they get fame, > but so would the project... *cough* DG *cough* :) I'm not saying > it _should_ be done because I don't have enough knowledge about > FreeBSD tuning to compete in such an event, I'm just saying someone > *cough* David *cough* might want to look into it. > > If played right it could put FreeBSD in _quite_ a good spot... Actually, I don't see how we could lose, although I've missed the obvious in the past. If FreeBSD wins overall, that's cool. They get egg on their faces. If FreeBSD comes in second to Linux, that's not bad in the eyes of people who've never heard of us. If we come in behind NT, we don't have to say it, and in fact shouldn't, but most people seem to feel that the Mindcraft tests are rigged at the outset, so there's no shame in losing in a rigged race. The only question we'd have to answer is, "If you knew it was rigged, why did you get involved? By getting involved you grant them some of your respectability and get nothing in return." And that's a tough question to answer if we feel it is rigged. The best solution might be to ask to be involved. Send the best we can, and if it looks rigged, walk and explain why. Loudly. Mike ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: Misspelled? Impossible. My modem is error correcting. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 13:26:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA5461567C for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:26:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00375; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Jesus Monroy Cc: stox@enteract.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Old Guard and Sheer Magic (Was: Re: [Re: linus on BSD ]) In-reply-to: Your message of "07 May 1999 07:03:29 PDT." <19990507140331.16646.qmail@nw179.netaddress.usa.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 13:26:52 -0700 Message-ID: <369.926108812@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, Jordan, I'm finally doing as you requested. > I read you message and now I'm going to take a shower. > See you in 60 minutes. What an odd thing to say... Not that I discourage personal hygine... > I remember distinctly Lynn Jolitiz standing up > and remarking that "at least we have documentation, unlike > some other RED CD-ROMs in release". (At the time FreeBSD had > a red release cover.) This promptly was followed by two (2) people > stomping out of the room. I was to learn, years later, that one > of those persons was Jordan. (Life is funny) Life is inaccurate. I didn't leave that meeting, I stayed right to the end while some weird guy in a green shirt filmed the proceedings (whom I later learned was Jesus Monroy, life is weird). Leave before the end? Are you kidding? I was having too much fun watching Paul Vixie make Bill sputter with his questions. > Do I really have to rant like a raving lunatic > for some of you to wake up. This is more than No, you have to rant like a lunatic for reasons of your own that we've never been able to figure out. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 13:37:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B96F1540E for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:37:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA172754204; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:23:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:23:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Fumerola To: chris@calldei.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: advocacy web pages In-Reply-To: <19990507151909.J1526@holly.dyndns.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 7 May 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > Different system. In my opinion, putting advocacy in the CVS > tree is impractical. There is a CVS tree on > advocacy.freebsd.org, however. Which doesn't help anyone involved with the project. There is a reason why we have one repository for ALL projects. I fail to see why this is different. All of the nifty SGML tools etc etc that exist for the doc project could be utilized for this project. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 13:38:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay03.netaddress.usa.net (relay03.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE2FF15405 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:38:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 11193 invoked from network); 7 May 1999 20:38:42 -0000 Received: from nw176.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.76) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 7 May 1999 20:38:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 6965 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 1999 20:38:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19990507203841.6964.qmail@nw176.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.76 by nw176 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Fri May 7 20:38:41 GMT 1999 Date: 7 May 99 13:38:41 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: Jordan K.Hubbard , Jesus Monroy Subject: Re: [Re: The Old Guard and Sheer Magic (Was: Re: [Re: linus on BSD ]) ] Cc: stox@enteract.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > Well, Jordan, I'm finally doing as you requested. > > I read you message and now I'm going to take a shower. > > See you in 60 minutes. > = > What an odd thing to say... Not that I discourage personal hygine... > = Yes, I try to shower from time to time. :-) > > I remember distinctly Lynn Jolitiz standing up > > and remarking that "at least we have documentation, unlike > > some other RED CD-ROMs in release". (At the time FreeBSD had > > a red release cover.) This promptly was followed by two (2) peopl= e > > stomping out of the room. I was to learn, years later, that one > > of those persons was Jordan. (Life is funny) > = > Life is inaccurate. I didn't leave that meeting, I stayed right to > the end while some weird guy in a green shirt filmed the proceedings > (whom I later learned was Jesus Monroy, life is weird). Leave before > the end? Are you kidding? I was having too much fun watching Paul > Vixie make Bill sputter with his questions. > = Yes, let me appoligize for a somewhat inaccurate = statement. Those people who left the room, in a stomp return shortly. I could not find a poetic way to add that, but I was sure you'd correct me. :-) > > Do I really have to rant like a raving lunatic > > for some of you to wake up. This is more than > = > No, you have to rant like a lunatic for reasons of your own that we've > never been able to figure out. > = Thank you for that confirmation. --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 13:41:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pokey.local.net (tcs6-26.netwalk.net [206.175.76.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8396155B5 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmutter@netwalk.com) Received: from insomnia.local.net (insomnia.local.net [192.168.2.3]) by pokey.local.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA76373; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:40:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jmutter@insomnia.local.net) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:44:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "James A. Mutter" Reply-To: jmutter@netwalk.com To: Mike Avery Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: from -chat, Re: Mindcruft ... In-Reply-To: <199905072032.PAA04456@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :If we come in behind NT, we don't have to say it, and in fact :shouldn't, but most people seem to feel that the Mindcraft tests :are rigged at the outset, so there's no shame in losing in a rigged :race. The only question we'd have to answer is, "If you knew it was :rigged, why did you get involved? By getting involved you grant them :some of your respectability and get nothing in return." And that's a :tough question to answer if we feel it is rigged. : :The best solution might be to ask to be involved. Send the best we :can, and if it looks rigged, walk and explain why. Loudly. : I don't think that's a good idea. If you're going to play the game then play game. Don't commit yourself to playing the game and then walk away because you weren't aware of the rules. That, to me, looks worse than an outright loss, I think it makes us look unprofessional at best, whiners at worst. At this stage in the game, we can afford neither. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 14:42:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DDF151EF for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix, from userid 1003) id E2F6B18A3; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:41:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D628538; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:41:37 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:41:37 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Some good news for people looking for the FreeBSD CD In-Reply-To: <41524.926045342@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 6 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Walnut Creek CDROM has just finalized an agreement with Ingram Micro, > the largest distributor in the U.S. (and possibly the world), to > distribute the FreeBSD CDROM and upcoming retail box set. This means > that you should start seeing the product turn up in stores like > CompUSA, Fry's (more consistently, anyway - we've been at a number of > Fry's stores for awhile), etc. > > If you are dealing with a local store who complains at not being able > to get ahold of the product, please tell them to talk to Ingram and > they'll almost certainly go "Oh, is that all I have to do? Why didn't > you say so in the first place!" The SKUs they need to know are: > > FreeBSD 143452 > FreeBSD PowerPak 143453 > > (The PowerPak is a retail box containing a book and 2 CD sets - the > main product and the FreeBSD toolkit). > > Thanks, > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > Major Applause, Good work Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 14:47:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 673A5151A0 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:47:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix, from userid 1003) id AF52E18A3; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:46:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F22D38; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:46:44 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:46:43 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: stox@enteract.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linus on BSD In-Reply-To: <41922.926049456@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 6 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > [reasonable summation of Linus's position elided] > > > > 1) We must not cede the desktop, but trumpet it. We're damn good > > on the desktop, we're even better on the server. Linux and NT > > are disappointments when moved from the desktop to a server > > roles, FreeBSD is a joy. > > Well, here's where I must beg to differ with you. As I've noted in > past postings to this advocacy list, my personal predilection for > focusing on the server market stems from a combination of two factors, > not just one: > > a) My disinclination to charge machine gun nests and other positions > of strength which I have the option of flanking. > > b) My fundamental disappointment with the FreeBSD *community's* > commitment to the desktop. I don't see joy, I see gaping > holes in what we offer and have always offered. > > I didn't start out in FreeBSD with the feeling that our only hope of > salvation lay in focusing on our strengths, that being primarily the > server market, since if you have enough guys you can even charge > machine gun nests successfully if you're willing and able to pay the > price. I was more than willing to fight a two-front war for the > server and the desktop, but I also became rapidly disillusioned of > this when the guys who were supposed to be fighting for the desktop > never showed up. > > I should not have been particularly surprised at this, I suppose, > given that since this project's inception, it's been driven by user > demand and our users have, by and large, come from ISP and "old Unix > guard" demographics. Our users have been people who's primary > interest lies in FreeBSD machines sitting in server rooms and > essentially doing network-based rather than desktop-based services. > > Seeking to change this, we've had desktop contests, we've had logo > competitions, we've done all sorts of things to try and interest > people in desktop-shaped things but, with a few notable exceptions > (the bt848 folks, Luigi, etc), we just haven't been very successful at > it. At some point you simply have to declare a losing strategy for > what it is and that's what I was eventually forced to do with the > desktop; I didn't start out with that opinion, it was simply one > forced on me by pragmatism. > > That said, I can still see this changing as more and more people start > getting more involved at a technical level (seeing someone actively > working on adding MIDI support to our current sound driver was, for > example, a very encouraging development) and that's essentially what > it's going to take. Being credible on the desktop has never been > something held up by marketing, believe it or not, since you first > have to have something, anything, to market before you can start that > phase and we've never gotten that far with FreeBSD on the desktop. > > The desktop installation, even with the small improvements I've made > for 3.2, is minimal at best and support by 3rd party multimedia ISVs > (things like RealAudio G3, Macromedia plug-ins, etc) almost > non-existent for FreeBSD. You can't just pull this stuff out of thin > air, either, you have to address it and you need to put a LOT of time > into crafting comfortable desktop environments for the beginning user > before any cozy sound-bites on how FreeBSD is now buddy-buddy with the > desktop will sound even remotely credible. > > Do I see people out there who are finally willing to *do the work* of > making FreeBSD a credible desktop solution or do I simply see the > usual array of faces wondering when it's going to happen by sheer > magic? :-) > > - Jordan > > P.S. If you need ideas for where to start, just go install the very > latest SuSE or Red Hat Linux distributions sometime. They don't do a > *lot* more than we do, and in some areas they do considerably less, > but the areas where they do honestly hold the user's hand more > effectively are nonetheless instructive. Learn from them. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > Adding to Jordans comments about the desktop, we aren't going to ever see commercial games, and other commercial graphic software without the tools to support the software. We don't have anything to offer at this point to a Game developer, that should finally answer the question of why guys like id games are developing stuff for linux and not freebsd, the answer lies simply in opengl accelerated drivers native to freebsd. Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 14:49:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15DCD15B37 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19941; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905072146.OAA19941@implode.root.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: from -chat, Re: Mindcruft ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 May 1999 14:00:00 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:46:02 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On 7 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > >> John Reynolds~ writes: >> > I wonder how we could get in on this fun ... >> > >> > http://www.mindcraft.com/openbenchmark.html >> > >> > I'm sure that 3.1-STABLE or some other variant could compete quite well at >> > this little game ... >> >> No. Don't you get it? The game is rigged. Mindcraft gets big money >> from Microsoft for doing these tests and making sure NT comes out on >> top. > >It's risky, but since they are allowing the "Linux experts" access >to the machines to do tuning, and the benchmark specifications are >sort of "open". Although it gives me a bad feeling in the pit of >my stomach, I don't really see how this could be "rigged". > >I don't think this should be so easily dismissed, some of FreeBSD's >finest should look into doing this. Not only would they get fame, >but so would the project... *cough* DG *cough* :) I'm not saying >it _should_ be done because I don't have enough knowledge about >FreeBSD tuning to compete in such an event, I'm just saying someone >*cough* David *cough* might want to look into it. > >If played right it could put FreeBSD in _quite_ a good spot... I have plans for benchmarks, but on my terms, not on someone elses. You can only be assured of winning that PR game if you control the conditions of the experiment (and I don't me "control" in the scientific sense). -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 15:58:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from theory6.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory6.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F3114E23 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:58:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 04:25:36 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linus on BSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > past postings to this advocacy list, my personal predilection for > focusing on the server market stems from a combination of two factors, > not just one: > > a) My disinclination to charge machine gun nests and other positions > of strength which I have the option of flanking. > > b) My fundamental disappointment with the FreeBSD *community's* > commitment to the desktop. I don't see joy, I see gaping > holes in what we offer and have always offered. Pardon this freebsd newbie butting in again, but to me it doesn't look that bad. I admit I'm not quite as much a newbie as the typical user whom RedHat and SuSE aim at, but I like ease-of-use as much as anyone. My take on this is that FreeBSD is actually not too far from linux (which itself is not "there" yet for the clueless user). Users want (a) A friendly desktop -- well both KDE and GNOME exist in the ports collection and I know KDE, at least, works fine on our machine. (b) Useful applications -- nearly all the free stuff compiles and runs fine, and I believe a lot of commercial stuff runs under linux emulation (I haven't actually tried it). (c) Graphical config tools -- this is what FreeBSD seems to lack, which things like linuxconf handle very nicely in linux -- but given that nearly everything in FreeBSD is configured in a single rc.conf file (as contrasted to the mess of files in linux), it shouldn't be too hard to write a Tcl/Tk script for some basic graphical system configuration? (d) Easy install -- well FreeBSD is already as easy as RedHat 5.x (imo) To roll a desktop distro, what is needed is probably to bump up KDE/GNOME/nice applications from the ports collection to the core distro, and have an option setting the default runlevel to 5 so that it boots right up to that nice graphical KDE login screen... That *will* mean including a lot of GPL stuff, but as I see it, *BSD's are stuck with a GPL compiler anyway so there's no harm done. Also include whatever apps you can, either native or Linux emulation. That and a configure program will already bring up FreeBSD to the level of, say, RedHat 5.2 (I haven't tried later distros) in terms of desktop-user-friendliness. That's basically good enough for starters. I admit my world vision may be skewed: I'm in a research atmosphere, we use latex for writing, and we don't use spreadsheets/databases/etc. So my idea of a desktop environment may not be the conventional one. I'm not confident enough of my coding abilities to offer help there, but should such a project take off, I'll be happy to help with documentation etc... (*not* man pages, those are for more advanced users) Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 15:59:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FE514ED8 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:59:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21668; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd021647; Fri May 7 15:59:06 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA29210; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:59:02 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905072259.PAA29210@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgrade To: stefanos@sentry.e-scape.net Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:59:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: billf@chc-chimes.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9905041945.AA02524@traveler.e-scape.net> from "Kiakas" at May 4, 99 03:45:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The GPL certainly has some restrictions, but if someone develops > software and distributes it to the Unix community we have no right to > demand that they distribute it under our terms. There is an implicit demand to that effect, if they want the code to become part of the kernel or part of any critical component without which FreeBSD would not run. Note that I said "run"; the GNU toolchain is immune from this restriction (though GNU tar isn't, and it's in there by default now...). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 16: 9:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010621501E for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:09:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA25308; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd025274; Fri May 7 16:09:30 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA29559; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:09:25 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905072309.QAA29559@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on advocacy (was: Slashdot ftp.cdrom.com upgra To: dcs@newsguy.com (Daniel C. Sobral) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 23:09:24 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jobaldwi@vt.edu, rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in, kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, asmodai@wxs.nl, stuyman@confusion.net In-Reply-To: <372F868D.D6F66EEE@newsguy.com> from "Daniel C. Sobral" at May 5, 99 08:45:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > That is not true. The copyright owner can release the software in as > many possible and conflicting licenses as he wants. Unless that software incorporates patches for which the copyright has not been assigned. Then they can only make subsequent releases under the original license. So for example, if you had an audio tool, released it under both licenses, and someone made changes to it under one of those licenses and sent them back to you, you could only incorporate those changes into one of the releases without an assignment of copyright. So if you put something out under a license, say the GPL, and it bounces around for 4 years gathering improvements, if you want to make it into a commercial binary-only product to keep people from just taking your code and undercutting your price until you can't make any money selling it, you have to start with the original code from 4 years ago, and can't use any of the code improvements, unless you get an assignment of copyright. Kaffe works like this, and so does the FSF code. In order to get the code accepted into the source tree, there is a requirement of assignment of copyright. Technically, RMS could relicense all of the FSF code under a different license, at will, if someone paid him enough to overcome his religious compunctions (e.g. if he nedded a kidney, and the only way to get it was to relicense the code for the money needed to pay for the transplant surgery). Kind of makes you think about how deep those convictions really go... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 16:35:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (mavery-gw.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825BE152AA for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:35:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04660 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:44:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905072344.SAA04660@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.44); 7 May 99 18:35:05 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.44); 7 May 99 18:25:43 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:25:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: from -chat, Re: Mindcruft ... Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com References: <199905072032.PAA04456@hostigos.otherwhen.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.10) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 7 May 99, at 16:44, James A. Mutter wrote: >> If we come in behind NT, we don't have to say it, and in fact >> shouldn't, but most people seem to feel that the Mindcraft tests >> are rigged at the outset, so there's no shame in losing in a rigged >> race. The only question we'd have to answer is, "If you knew it was >> rigged, why did you get involved? By getting involved you grant them >> some of your respectability and get nothing in return." And that's a >> tough question to answer if we feel it is rigged. >> The best solution might be to ask to be involved. Send the best we >> can, and if it looks rigged, walk and explain why. Loudly. > I don't think that's a good idea. If you're going to play the game > then play game. Don't commit yourself to playing the game and then > walk away because you weren't aware of the rules. That, to me, looks > worse than an outright loss, I think it makes us look unprofessional at > best, whiners at worst. At this stage in the game, we can afford neither. I reformatted what you quoted to match what I sent. If FreeBSD.org sends people to the MindCraft tests and finds that it is hopelessly rigged and there is no way to even show well, then it's time to leave. BEFORE benchmarks have been run. Like when you pull your car into the race and are told that you're welcome to race, but you'll have to disconnect 1/2 the sparkplugs first. Once the testing is started, it's like a roller coaster ride - you're in it for the duration. My objection isn't to whether it's rigged or not. Like others, I see it as a chance to publicise FreeBSD to people who haven't seen it or heard of it. And that benefit occurs whether we win, draw, or lose. The only time I'd have a problem is if the test is hopelessly and blatantly rigged. And then walking in a dignified manner may be appropriate. Mike ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * Recently Seen On A Bumper Sticker Near Your Home: We are Microsoft. Resistance Is Futile. You Will Be Assimilated. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 16:52:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5844A14C9B for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:52:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00721; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:52:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd000694; Fri May 7 16:52:13 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA01354; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:52:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199905072352.QAA01354@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 23:52:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkb@best.com, anarchy@crl.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, parker@Yahoo-inc.com In-Reply-To: <40655.926028226@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 6, 99 03:03:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Derek is a local PITA. Good thing he has no voice and even himself > > is forced to run FreeBSD on his desktop. Hehe. I love Yahoo. ;) > > > > Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather > > see that happen, then oracle on NT. > > Erm, why didn't you point him at: > > http://www.freebsd.org.ru/linux-oracle.HOW-TO.html > > Or any of the other howtos on running Linux oracle on FreeBSD? Or given the leverage that Yahoo has, get Oracle to release the Oracle server that's already ported to FreeBSD, and running on the NC (Network Computer) server boxes? As an experiment by someone, I have seen an NC server disk removed from the server, installed on a FreeBSD box as a secondary disk, the "oracle" directory tarred up, and untarred on another FreeBSD box, and it ran fine. The code was deleted after the experiment, of course. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 22:22:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.phc.igs.net (eagle.phc.igs.net [207.210.17.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 514B71532F for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net) Received: by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix, from userid 1003) id A188518A3; Sat, 8 May 1999 00:22:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eagle.phc.igs.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9ED1938; Sat, 8 May 1999 00:22:01 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 00:22:01 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle To: Bill Fumerola Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: advocacy web pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 7 May 1999, Bill Fumerola wrote: > > Why aren't the pages the make up the advocacy site in our CVS tree? > > Every other project we do falls under one development model with one > source repository. Why is this different? > > - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - > - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org -> I was waiting for somebody else to respond to this, the main reason that the advocacy site is not included in the main repository, Is that the design goals of the site, tend to break the concept of mirrors. Though internely we use cvs to maintain our files. Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 23:24:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay05.netaddress.usa.net (relay05.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E225514EC2 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 23:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 8312 invoked from network); 8 May 1999 06:24:13 -0000 Received: from nw179.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.79) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 8 May 1999 06:24:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 29305 invoked by uid 60001); 8 May 1999 06:24:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990508062413.29304.qmail@nw179.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.79 by nw179 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Sat May 8 06:24:13 GMT 1999 Date: 7 May 99 23:24:13 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: diatribe and/or results X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This mornings diatribe may be continued at anyones request. This message is two (2) questions. In the FAQ I release each day I include new information. One of the items is Psuedo-Indicators. Real meaningless items, but they provocate though in = our direction (FreeBSD). The questions are: #1 Would anyone object to my posting the 'Psuedo-Indicators' to this mailing list? If anyone objects, I won't post. #2 Does anyone have suggestions for 'Psuedo-Indicators'? If so, please email them to me at freebsdadvocate@yahoo.com. Please note this item similar values to the 'slashdot poll'. --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 23:36:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay03.netaddress.usa.net (relay03.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D338914DDA for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 23:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 4579 invoked from network); 8 May 1999 06:36:18 -0000 Received: from nw174.netaddress.usa.net (HELO .netaddress.usa.net) (204.68.24.74) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 8 May 1999 06:36:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 1545 invoked by uid 60001); 8 May 1999 06:36:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990508063618.1544.qmail@.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.74 by nw174 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Sat May 8 06:36:18 GMT 1999 Date: 7 May 99 23:36:18 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [advocacy web pages] X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > = > Why aren't the pages the make up the advocacy site in our CVS tree? > = > Every other project we do falls under one development model with one > source repository. Why is this different? > = Sorry to interject again. But I had the same question. --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri May 7 23:45: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from relay02.netaddress.usa.net (relay02.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 14B9A155A1 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 23:44:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesus.monroy@usa.net) Received: (qmail 7273 invoked from network); 8 May 1999 06:44:49 -0000 Received: from nwcst067.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.67) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 8 May 1999 06:44:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 3455 invoked by uid 60001); 8 May 1999 06:44:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19990508064448.3454.qmail@nwcst067.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.67 by nwcst067 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Sat May 8 06:44:48 GMT 1999 Date: 7 May 99 23:44:48 PDT From: Jesus Monroy To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [from -chat, Re: Mindcruft ...] Cc: John Reynolds~ X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On 7 May 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > = > > John Reynolds~ writes: > = >...........[SNIP]....... > I don't think this should be so easily dismissed, some of FreeBSD's > finest should look into doing this. Not only would they get fame, > but so would the project... *cough* DG *cough* :) I'm not saying > it _should_ be done because I don't have enough knowledge about > FreeBSD tuning to compete in such an event, I'm just saying someone > *cough* David *cough* might want to look into it. > = > If played right it could put FreeBSD in _quite_ a good spot... > = Actually, I working with videotechnology.com right now to try to start mentioning FreeBSD in their literature. Their Product Afterburner currently holds the world = record for a single CPU webserver. 3000 hits per second with webbench 2.0. In house test show 5600 hits per second with the same setup (4-100Mbps NICs). Also currently I'm trying to get the same company to do the same test with a = 1 Gbps NIC. We are confident we can break the Novell caching record of 10,000 hits per second. If you are really serious, I can try get them to test with RH and M$. --- I am not a bot. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 1:52:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hp300 (hp300.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5EE2154B7 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 01:52:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 14:20:19 +0530 (IST) From: Rahul Siddharthan To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Ken Thompson clarifies to ESR Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://linuxtoday.com/stories/5722.html "i think the open software movement (and linux in particular) is laudable." "... it is naive to think that linux has a hope of making a dent against microsoft starting from way behind with a fraction of the resources and amateur labor. (i feel the same about unix.)" "...the linux community is a lot nicer than the unix community. a negative comment on unix would warrant death threats. with linux, it is like stirring up a nest of butterflies." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 3:24:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4884F15296 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 03:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id DAA16108; Sat, 8 May 1999 03:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990508032355.F13770@best.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 03:23:55 -0700 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Rahul Siddharthan , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ken Thompson clarifies to ESR References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Rahul Siddharthan on Sat, May 08, 1999 at 02:20:19PM +0530 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 08, 1999 at 02:20:19PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > http://linuxtoday.com/stories/5722.html > > "i think the open software movement (and linux in particular) > is laudable." > > "... it is naive to think that linux has a hope of making a dent > against microsoft starting from way behind with a fraction of the > resources and amateur labor. (i feel the same about unix.)" > > "...the linux community is a lot nicer than the unix community. > a negative comment on unix would warrant death threats. with > linux, it is like stirring up a nest of butterflies." > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message Ken Thompson is awesome -- he is now in my .sig also ;) The coolest part: linux folks can't really argue with Thompson since he is _THE UNIX_ himself ;) -- Yan "My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse. In a non-PC environment, it just won't hold up. If you're using it on a single box, that's one thing. But if you want to use Linux in firewalls, gateways, embedded systems, and so on, it has a long way to go." - Ken Thompson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 4: 2:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11ECE15677 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 04:02:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id EAA18996; Sat, 8 May 1999 04:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19990508040208.A18489@best.com> Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 04:02:08 -0700 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Nicole Harrington Cc: parker@Yahoo-inc.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Ben Manes Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) References: <19990506100852.A22781@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicole Harrington on Thu, May 06, 1999 at 05:37:44PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 06, 1999 at 05:37:44PM -0700, Nicole Harrington wrote: > > On 06-May-99 My Secret Spies Reported That Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Derek is a local PITA. Good thing he has no voice and even himself > > is forced to run FreeBSD on his desktop. Hehe. I love Yahoo. ;) > > > > Yes, it was my idea of going with Linux for oracle. I'd much rather > > see that happen, then oracle on NT. > > > > -- Yan > > Hi Yan > Uh... Like Oracle does run on FreeBSD.... > > Nicole > Uhm like.. some of our technical people are not-so-technical in real life, need to call Linux support. Oracle won't give you the technical support unless you run RedHat (Oracle is in bed with redhat just like they are in bed with Sun). -- Yan [ 10 line sig which Nicole has goes here ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 4:54: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F045C154AA for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 04:54:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA13096; Sat, 8 May 1999 20:53:55 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <373423B0.199E31F5@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 20:44:48 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jan B. Koum" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [svlug] *sigh* (fwd) References: <19990506100852.A22781@best.com> <19990508040208.A18489@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jan B. Koum" wrote: > > Uhm like.. some of our technical people are not-so-technical > in real life, need to call Linux support. Oracle won't give you the > technical support unless you run RedHat (Oracle is in bed with redhat > just like they are in bed with Sun). MMmmm... Install Oracle on a directory exported through NFS from a Linux? Then you can say "Oracle is on Linux"... ;-> - Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Proof of Trotsky's farsightedness is that _none_ of his predictions have come true yet." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 7:47:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from madcap.apk.net (madcap.apk.net [207.54.158.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D0914CCA for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ipswitch@apk.net) Received: from CARBON (stuart.apk.net [207.54.148.235]) by madcap.apk.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/apk.981124) with SMTP id KAA22204 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:39:04 -0400 (EDT) From: ipswitch@apk.net (Stuart Krivis) To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linus on BSD Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 14:38:53 GMT Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc. Reply-To: ipswitch@apk.net Message-ID: <37344ae9.21159455@mail.apk.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 6 May 1999 22:06:36 -0500 (CDT), you wrote: > 2) We must emphasize the advantages of mature code, as opposed to > the "But it's new" attitude that dominates the Linux domain. This > is the same attitude that dominates the NT cesspool. If it's new, > it must be better. I think most of us have long come to the > conclusion that new is not necessarily better. Evolution works > far better. FreeBSD, evolved to be the best! > Apple had mklinux, which employs the Mach kernel that Avie likes so well, plus mklinux was up and running on the PowerMac. They chose to upgrade their BSD userland instead from OPENSTEP and evolved that into Rhapsody -> MOSX It seems that maybe some large corporate players also realize that there is a benefit to mature code. I've also run across some Linux advocates who make much of Sun's promotion of UltraPenguin. Well, Sun wants to sell more hardware, so it's pretty easy to see why they jumped on the bandwagon. And it's pretty plain also that nobody from Sun is really pushing Linux to replace Solaris in the datacenter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 8:28: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from madcap.apk.net (madcap.apk.net [207.54.158.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6788614D26 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 08:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ipswitch@apk.net) Received: from CARBON (stuart.apk.net [207.54.148.235]) by madcap.apk.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/apk.981124) with SMTP id LAA23685 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:19:59 -0400 (EDT) From: ipswitch@apk.net (Stuart Krivis) To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: diatribe and/or results Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 15:19:48 GMT Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc. Reply-To: ipswitch@apk.net Message-ID: <373655e5.23971218@mail.apk.net> References: <19990508062413.29304.qmail@nw179.netaddress.usa.net> In-Reply-To: <19990508062413.29304.qmail@nw179.netaddress.usa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 7 May 99 23:24:13 PDT, you wrote: >The questions are: > >#1 Would anyone object to my posting the 'Psuedo-Indicators' > to this mailing list? If anyone objects, I won't post. I object. Don't post to the mailing lists. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 9:22:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk (mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk [130.246.170.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B3E14D9E for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 09:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmb@rcru.rl.ac.uk) Received: from rcru.rl.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA13541 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 17:22:06 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from tmb@rcru.rl.ac.uk) Message-Id: <199905081622.RAA13541@mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD/OpenBSD included in Open Source timeline. Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 17:22:06 +0100 From: Mark Blackman Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/opensource/opensource_body.html Leaves out NetBSD(!) and lumps OpenBSD (timewise) with FreeBSD, but encouraging to see otherwise. This was a link from a GNOME story on ABCnews. Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 11: 2:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4CC150DA for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:02:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id UAA19056; Sat, 8 May 1999 20:02:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from w@localhost) by paula.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.8.8) id TAA00589; Sat, 8 May 1999 19:57:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from w) Message-ID: <19990508195717.38777@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 19:57:17 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Bill Fumerola , chris@calldei.com Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: advocacy web pages References: <19990507151909.J1526@holly.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Bill Fumerola on Fri, May 07, 1999 at 12:23:24PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 1999-05-07 12:23:24 -0400, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Fri, 7 May 1999, Chris Costello wrote: > > > Different system. In my opinion, putting advocacy in the CVS > > tree is impractical. There is a CVS tree on > > advocacy.freebsd.org, however. > > Which doesn't help anyone involved with the project. > > There is a reason why we have one repository for ALL projects. I fail to > see why this is different. All of the nifty SGML tools etc etc that exist > for the doc project could be utilized for this project. Agreed. FreeBSD has manpower problem, not a tool problem. The infrastructure is good: SGML tools, source repository, cvsup/ftp/web mirrors, mailing lists etc. What we need are users who did really the work on freefall. -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat May 8 12:15:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (mail-gw2.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DC5115670 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 12:15:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@holly.dyndns.org) Received: from holly.dyndns.org (ppp-207-193-12-42.hstntx.swbell.net [207.193.12.42]) by mail-gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22275; Sat, 8 May 1999 14:15:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from chris@localhost) by holly.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20415; Sat, 8 May 1999 14:16:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chris) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 14:16:39 -0500 From: Chris Costello To: Joel Sutton Cc: Nicole Harrington , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [ADV] Re: www.tunelinux.com - an interesting idea... Message-ID: <19990508141639.B20366@holly.dyndns.org> Reply-To: chris@calldei.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Joel Sutton on Fri, May 07, 1999 at 08:32:40PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 7, 1999, Joel Sutton wrote: > I agree. All we need now are some original ideas.... You wouldn't believe how many ideas I shot down before I came up with this. > I like this idea, but wouldn't it be better to keep these packages in the > ports collection? That's mostly what I had in mind. I would use the ports system's "make package" target to build the package, and provide both ports tarballs and packages, but I must say this: I don't have the resources to make nearly the amount of things I have come up with. > I'd be willing to put something together with PHP3. "put something together" - I assume you mean building the website and not providing a package for PHP3? (That already exists!) > > 1) Expected disk space needed. > > I'm not sure about this one. It would really depend on the popularity of > the project. This would be a knowledge base rather than a "file store" so > that should limit the space required somewhat. We'd have to define some > limits in both disk space, types of information and the age of the > information. An average conf-file package shouldn't go over 1 MB, an average custom-built package shouldn't go over 10 MB. Is this reasonable? > > > 2) Other resouces needed (I assume just web server and ftp server is needed) > > Apache > PHP3 > MySql/Postrgresql > FTP server (for packages???) If I were to work on this project, I would like to use MySQL, unless there are serious performance issues with it that I'm not aware of. > > > 3) Who would be in charge of the project > > Someone who knows about performace tuning systems. This really rules me > out. :-) A show of hands perhaps? For the information to be effective > there would need to be some sort of approval process - which translates to > someones time unfortunately... Let's clone David Greenman. > > Cheers, Joel... > > --- > Joel Sutton | Busy Bee Consulting > Phone: 0409 426-563 | Melbourne, Australia > Email: jsutton@genesis.net.au | http://www.genesis.net.au/~jsutton > VicFUG Webmaster/Acting President | http://www.vicfug.au.freebsd.org/ -- Chris Costello Watch out for off-by-one errors. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message