From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 02:53:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA01303 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:53:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA01298 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:53:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.170]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4C4B; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:52:43 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:00:18 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Jason C. Wells" Subject: RE: Confused on Hacker/Cracker Definition Cc: FreeBSD-chat Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 10-Jan-99 Jason C. Wells wrote: > I have long held the understanding that in computing, a "hacker" fixes > things and a "cracker" breaks them. As I continue to try to learn about > information security I read many articles. > > It seems that the distinction between hacker and cracker is blurred in > cyberpress. This blurring seems to occur even on computer savvy news > sites like cnet, slashdot, and wired. > > TNHD still provides a negative view on "crackers". Some of these cracker > groups seem to claim themsleves as hackers. Is this a bid for credibility > akin to a terrorist claiming to be a politician? > > I am wondering if the meaning of words is shifting and the people that I > continue to call cracker are gaining (perceived) credibility enough to be > called hacker? Is my understanding outdated? Not really, back in the Amiga days (say begin 1990) hackers were still hackers as in people with a knack for `hacking' at the keyboard to make software or solutions work. Crackers were the guys and still are the people who crack the protection on various pieces of software and other related things. I work as a network/security specialist and have always defended the hackers out there against my colleagues as most of the people who stage attacks are merely script kiddies. The true Hackers also never openly declare they are hackers. Hacking still means the same except the territoy has shifter from hacking at system to test security to hacking Operating Systems such as the BSD's and Linux. My 0.02 centen PS: people never bother to read something like the Jargon file or netiquette documents nowadays. Needless to say that I hate my work's mail software (Novell's GroupWise) since it doesn't allow for header tweaking nor does it allow a normal reply format such as these mails. *sigh* --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 03:28:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06836 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:28:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06827 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:28:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA83955; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 06:32:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 06:32:22 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Greg Lehey cc: "Michael G." , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cluster Size In-Reply-To: <19990110165342.K8886@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > [Following up to -chat] > > On Sunday, 10 January 1999 at 1:25:54 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Sunday, 10 January 1999 at 0:45:43 -0500, Michael G. wrote: > >>> PIC X 10 VALUE "YES! COBOL" > >> > >> What language is this? > > > > Isn't it COBOL? :) > > None that I have seen. Has it changed since COBOL 85? I would have > thought it would have to be > > 5 FOO PIC X(10) VALUE "HAH! COBOL". ok, it LOOKED :) like COBOL, the last and only time i've ever done cobol was this one sunday over a year ago, some telecom student asked for help with a homework assignment. :) -Alfred > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 07:16:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00663 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 07:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00646; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 07:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 07:16:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901101516.HAA00646@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: fullermd@futuresouth.com CC: brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU, grog@lemis.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990108221752.C26154@futuresouth.com> (fullermd@futuresouth.com) Subject: Re: The ongoing influx of SPAM into the lists. References: <19990109111858.D96705@freebie.lemis.com> <19990108221752.C26154@futuresouth.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:17:52 -0600 > From: "Matthew D. Fuller" > > Didn't this come up not too long ago? > I, for one, find it useful when moving a thread (generally, to -chat), to > Bcc the original list so they know what happened, but since it's a Bcc no > one accidentally keeps it flowing on the old list. > I can't be the only one who does this. Sure, it's a convenience... but > I have giving up very useful convenience just because someone out there > has to be a jerk. i use that method as well. i find it very useful. this is the only reason that i have not changed majordomo to require that the list appear in either the To: or the Cc: headers. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 09:02:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11417 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:02:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.pce.net (darius.pce.net [206.25.234.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11412 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:02:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dnh@darius.pce.net) Received: from localhost (dnh@localhost) by darius.pce.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA28678 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:15:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:15:10 -0500 (EST) From: David Hummel To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: contributing to the free(dom) community Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I have been a part of the Internet community for about four years, and I feel that it's about time for me to start contributing to 'the cause'. 'The cause', as I see it, has mainly to do with Free Software, and promoting the Internet as a forum of education and free exchange of ideas (as opposed to entertainment and commercial enterprise: while necessary (or at least unavoidable), these have enough momentum to carry themselves without my help). What I hope to achieve by writing this list is: a) A few ideas on what are the most positive projects promoting these ideals (and is there a listing of these?). Included would be things like XFree86, Apache, FSF, PHP, Linux, *BSD, project Gutenburg, sites promoting anti-spam, internet freedom, human rights etc. If there is a central site that has a listing of sites like these, especially one that provides a guide to contributing to such causes, please give me a url. (If no such site exists, perhaps I could contribute this). b) Thoughts on a FreeDNS/DNS exhange. I longed for such a thing until I found Granite Canyon on the FreeBSD gallery page. They currently provide name service for more than 7000 sites, but they have their share of downages (they only have one secondary name server). Similarly, ml.org has cut their services due to resource problems and abuse. I've always thought that DNS wasn't as open as it could be. It seems to me that there could exist a variety of setups to help small sites with DNS including: 1) A simple DNS exchange where admins can find other admins who are willing to provide secondary name service with each other. 2) A large scale project similar to Granite Canyon. The difference would be that rather than just one secondary server, there would be many. It would be possible to spread the load over many servers and networks. Contributors would set up secondary DNS I guess with this my questions would be: a) Does such a project exist? b) Is such a project desirable? (does it invite too much abuse?) c) Any other thoughts on contributing. Like everyone else, my shortest resource is time. Most abundant is probably equipment, followed by sysadmin skills, and then programming skills. Thanks, Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 19:24:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22967 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:24:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kendra.ne.mediaone.net (kendra.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.94.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22962; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:24:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from software@kew.com) Received: from sonata.hh.kew.com (root@sonata-dmz.hh.kew.com [192.168.205.1]) by kendra.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA12424; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:24:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from kew.com (minerva.hh.kew.com [192.168.203.144]) by sonata.hh.kew.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27583; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:24:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36996ED0.CA25B959@kew.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:24:00 -0500 From: Drew Derbyshire Organization: Kendra Electronic Wonderworks, Stoneham, MA 02180 (http://www.kew.com) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. References: <49859.915950870@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Note 1: With the headers I am giving this, replies will auto-move to chat, since it's not really a "current" issue. Note 2: The following mentions Jordan by name, which may imply I'm dumping on him personally. This is utterly wrong, the point if anything is that one person can't do the evangelism for an entire organization. With the release of FreeBSD 3.0, FreeBSD utterly blew the _official_ evangelism end of it. There was this great new product with wonderful features in it (CAM, SMP, and all the rest), and ... I didn't see squat about it in the trade papers. Someone at the online end of either CMP publications or IDG (I forget which) was actively looking for an official FreeBSD mouthpiece the week after 3.0 came out, and they couldn't find anyone. Nada. Jordan was in Holland and no other names were available. Nor, it appears, were phone numbers that got answered publicly associated with the release. I tried feeding the reporter some names, but nothing ever became of it, and I couldn't talk to him directly (not being on the project myself). On a local professional note, I'm trying to get my day job to look at FreeBSD for their next OS migration. I've got low hopes, because quite frankly, it seems only the people who have seen me in my FreeBSD rugby shirt even know the name. I don't think too many would mind if Linux wiped FreeBSD from the face of the earth on pure technical merits, but would be a real pity if FreeBSD died because no one answered the phone. If you (those who can officially speak for FreeBSD) want it to succeed, _everytime_ someone mentions Linux you need to see if that comment should have said Linux and FreeBSD. Just "sometimes" won't be enough to win the image war. "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > Linux has succeeded largely because of a large grass-roots support and > evangelism network which allows it to reach such people and > communicate the message to them. If FreeBSD's own users want to see > FreeBSD doing better against whomever they most perceive as its > competition, and 1998 was certainly a year where I heard a lot of > complaining about this, then they're going to simply have to get off > their collective duffs and put in more of this kind of work. When was > the last time a bunch of FreeBSD users got together to hand out > FreeBSD literature at a Microsoft product launch, for example, or held > an install-a-thon at a local computer show? -- Drew Derbyshire UUPC/extended e-mail: software@kew.com Telephone: 617-279-9812 "Send lawyers, guns, and money . . ." - Warren Zevon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 19:28:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23438 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:28:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nina.pagesz.net (nina.pagesz.net [208.194.157.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA23432 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@pagesz.net) Received: from stealth.dummynet. (juana-16.pagesz.net [208.213.126.16]) by nina.pagesz.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA31615; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:28:24 -0500 Received: (from rhh@localhost) by stealth.dummynet. (8.9.1/8.8.8) id WAA01482; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:28:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rhh) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:28:30 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: Brian Tiemann Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. Message-ID: <19990110222830.B909@pagesz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Tiemann on Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 05:55:12PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brian Tiemann: |On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Kenneth Wayne Culver wrote: | |> > Unfortunately, I can't draw for crap, my GIMP skills are lacking, and |> > I haven't found any pictures of Chuck facing forward, looking |> > powerful and bold, with his trident planted in the ground beside |> > him. :( If anyone else wants to design and market such a poster, |> > however, I'll buy several. |> > |> Same here, :-) | | Hmm... maybe something along these lines? | | http://www.lionking.org/~btman/chuck.jpg Pretty slick. Though I think he needs to lose the beer belly. Looks like he ate the Linux Penguin (who's just stuffed himself with all those fish Linus mentioned :-) Randall To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 19:53:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25814 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:53:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25807 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id EAA26744 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:12:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 18B4C1583; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:18:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:18:02 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: contributing to the free(dom) community Message-ID: <19990111021802.B77778@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from David Hummel on Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 12:15:10PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4931 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to David Hummel: > 1) A simple DNS exchange where admins can find other admins who are > willing to provide secondary name service with each other. You can post on USENET in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.* > 2) A large scale project similar to Granite Canyon. The difference > would be that rather than just one secondary server, there would be > many. It would be possible to spread the load over many servers > and networks. Contributors would set up secondary DNS I haven't looked at Granite Canyon but I'm part time hostmaster for EU.org which was created by one friend of mine [now committer in FreeBSD], Pierre Beyssac. More details at . Please note that EU.org is a naming service whareas ML.org was also a webhosting one, something EU.org doesn't want (and can't anyway) to provide. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #67: Tue Dec 29 20:24:02 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 21:15:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05908 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:15:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ha1.rdc1.ne.home.com (ha1.rdc1.ne.home.com [24.2.4.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05897 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:15:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mlankton@home.com) Received: from hell ([24.3.248.5]) by ha1.rdc1.ne.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA3182; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:15:02 -0800 X-Mailer: PopOver 2.0.131b (Mach; i386) From: Michael Lankton Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:15:27 +0000 To: Drew Derbyshire Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-ID: <9901102315.AA270031@hell> In-Reply-To: <36996ED0.CA25B959@kew.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Drew Derbyshire wrote: > I don't think too many would mind if Linux wiped FreeBSD from the face of the > earth on pure technical merits, but would be a real pity if FreeBSD died > because no one answered the phone. Conversely, I don't think FreeBSD needs the baggage that being a buzzword os carries with it, although I'm sure many of you would argue that the exposure would do more good than harm. .###. /#######\## -==============================================- ;##### ;# Mike's Window Maker / The NeXUS ;##### ;# http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org \# /## -==============================================- ###'---'#### mlankton@home.com NeXTmail ok! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 22:17:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13145 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:17:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13140 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.93]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2BB0; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:17:22 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9901102315.AA270031@hell> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:24:56 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Michael Lankton Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Drew Derbyshire Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 10-Jan-99 Michael Lankton wrote: > Drew Derbyshire wrote: >> I don't think too many would mind if Linux wiped FreeBSD from the face >> of the earth on pure technical merits, but would be a real pity if >> FreeBSD died because no one answered the phone. > > Conversely, I don't think FreeBSD needs the baggage that being a buzzword > os carries with it, although I'm sure many of you would argue that the > exposure would do more good than harm. Can ye say Linux and commercialism in one word, I betcha ye can... (Unfortunately)... Hmm sounding like a communist now... Poing being is that Linux ain't that different from Windows any more by now, sure ye get the source, but I meant the whole hype around it. Be different, use Linux (along with the X million others ;) It's always possible to do too much PR. Marketing can be healthy in the right doses. Too much can kill... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 22:29:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14278 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:29:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14268; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:29:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA16415; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:28:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990110223521.006a52bc@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:21 -0800 To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. - Concerning User Groups In-Reply-To: <49859.915950870.1@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, I'm sending this to Questions because I have a few questions for you all. But, if you want the condensed version of all this, then here it is: Do you you want to see FreeBSD succeed? If you do, then you should really get involved. Please read on. :) At 10:47 PM 1/9/99 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >Looking forward: > >Our users also need to become more involved and I'm hoping that 1999 >will be the year when a lot more local user groups and other self-help >type of organizations are formed. The Handbook and FAQ are documents >which are getting better, hopefully another trend we'll see continue >into 1999 as Nik Clayton, our fearless new Documentation Project >leader, continues at the helm. We still have to remember, however, >that for many users the handbook and FAQ docs are just not enough. I totally agree here. Users really need to get involved. I have noticed that there is a FreeBSD Webring. I think that is one of the greatest things that has been thought of for FreeBSD Advocacy. If you're HTML savy and have something to say about FreeBSD, then by all means put your HTML skills to work and let people know what you think about FreeBSD. You create an online FreeBSD diary dedicated on what you did when you installed, what problems you had and how you fixed them, what software packages you liked the best, how did you set up your kernel, etc. Use your imagination and have some fun with it! :) > >Linux has succeeded largely because of a large grass-roots support and >evangelism network which allows it to reach such people and >communicate the message to them. If FreeBSD's own users want to see >FreeBSD doing better against whomever they most perceive as its >competition, and 1998 was certainly a year where I heard a lot of >complaining about this, then they're going to simply have to get off >their collective duffs and put in more of this kind of work. When was >the last time a bunch of FreeBSD users got together to hand out >FreeBSD literature at a Microsoft product launch, for example, or held >an install-a-thon at a local computer show? Yes!!! That is exactly how Linux got so popular. It was the Linux addicts and the Linux obsessed that let the world know that Linux is a great operating system. Let's learn from their success and try to do what they did, but instead we'd be telling the world how great FreeBSD is and that sort of stuff. But, let's not make it a Linux vs. FreeBSD thing. ;) I'm am totally prepared to go to Computer Shows and pass out FreeBSD flyers, or better yet, FreeBSD News letters straight from the source. Are you willing to work for your OS? Think about all the fun you'll have going to computer shows looking at the neat hardware and stuff while promoting your favorite sofware (FreeBSD). >The Linux folks do things like that all the time, apparently, whereas >only a very few die-hard FreeBSD users currently do it now, so why not >help these people out? Join the advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list and >discuss your plans there so that others with more enthusiasm than >ideas can also learn from and perhaps help you with yours. Write >short articles for the new advocacy sites like www.daemonnews.org or >www.freebsdrocks.com and help promote the success of BSD evangelical >publications. This is where the big question comes in. Are you willing to work for your OS? If you are, then lets band together and let people know that FreeBSD is a killer OS. Who should we let know of this information? I'm currently planning a few things. Here they are: 1) Do research on FreeBSD vs. NT servers and FreeBSD vs. Linux servers. Probably show which can handle more users, and what-not. 2) Try to push the FreeBSD Webring. 3) Try to push for more X support, and perhaps try to come up with a voting scheme for a default windowmanager for FreeBSD or something like that. 4) Bombard every magazine that I know politely letting them know that I found a great OS that is totally free and totally awesome (ack, I'm starting to sound valley - like fer sure). Also, I have noticed some letters to magazines by people pushing the free software thing, but only mentioning Linux. Okay, I feel if you are going to be a "Free Sofware Advocate" then don't be so one-sided and only mention Linux, try mentioning the other free OS's and stuff. (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Hurd, Linux, etc) Just to be fair. Hopefully, this project of mine will be done before Febuary. I may need help with writing letters to magazines. I'm thinking of an easily modifyable (that's probably not a word) form letter that can be changed for different target audiences. Can anyone help? Thanks, Joey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 22:56:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA16525 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:56:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16520; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:56:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from culverk@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT root)@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id BAA17665; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu ((IDENT sendmail)@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id BAA27281; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:55:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.0.Beta6/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id BAA27276; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:55:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rac6.wam.umd.edu: culverk owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:55:54 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Wayne Culver To: gummibear@we.mediaone.net cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. - Concerning User Groups In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990110223521.006a52bc@we.mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Okay, I'm sending this to Questions because I have a few questions for you > all. But, if you want the condensed version of all this, then here it is: > > Do you you want to see FreeBSD succeed? If you do, then you should really > get involved. > > Please read on. :) > > > At 10:47 PM 1/9/99 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >Looking forward: > > > >Our users also need to become more involved and I'm hoping that 1999 > >will be the year when a lot more local user groups and other self-help > >type of organizations are formed. The Handbook and FAQ are documents > >which are getting better, hopefully another trend we'll see continue > >into 1999 as Nik Clayton, our fearless new Documentation Project > >leader, continues at the helm. We still have to remember, however, > >that for many users the handbook and FAQ docs are just not enough. > > I totally agree here. Users really need to get involved. I have noticed > that there is a FreeBSD Webring. I think that is one of the greatest > things that has been thought of for FreeBSD Advocacy. If you're HTML savy > and have something to say about FreeBSD, then by all means put your HTML > skills to work and let people know what you think about FreeBSD. You > create an online FreeBSD diary dedicated on what you did when you > installed, what problems you had and how you fixed them, what software > packages you liked the best, how did you set up your kernel, etc. Use your > imagination and have some fun with it! :) > > > > >Linux has succeeded largely because of a large grass-roots support and > >evangelism network which allows it to reach such people and > >communicate the message to them. If FreeBSD's own users want to see > >FreeBSD doing better against whomever they most perceive as its > >competition, and 1998 was certainly a year where I heard a lot of > >complaining about this, then they're going to simply have to get off > >their collective duffs and put in more of this kind of work. When was > >the last time a bunch of FreeBSD users got together to hand out > >FreeBSD literature at a Microsoft product launch, for example, or held > >an install-a-thon at a local computer show? > > Yes!!! That is exactly how Linux got so popular. It was the Linux addicts > and the Linux obsessed that let the world know that Linux is a great > operating system. Let's learn from their success and try to do what they > did, but instead we'd be telling the world how great FreeBSD is and that > sort of stuff. But, let's not make it a Linux vs. FreeBSD thing. ;) I'm > am totally prepared to go to Computer Shows and pass out FreeBSD flyers, or > better yet, FreeBSD News letters straight from the source. Are you willing > to work for your OS? Think about all the fun you'll have going to computer > shows looking at the neat hardware and stuff while promoting your favorite > sofware (FreeBSD). > > >The Linux folks do things like that all the time, apparently, whereas > >only a very few die-hard FreeBSD users currently do it now, so why not > >help these people out? Join the advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list and > >discuss your plans there so that others with more enthusiasm than > >ideas can also learn from and perhaps help you with yours. Write > >short articles for the new advocacy sites like www.daemonnews.org or > >www.freebsdrocks.com and help promote the success of BSD evangelical > >publications. > > This is where the big question comes in. Are you willing to work for your > OS? If you are, then lets band together and let people know that FreeBSD > is a killer OS. Who should we let know of this information? I'm currently > planning a few things. Here they are: > > 1) Do research on FreeBSD vs. NT servers and FreeBSD vs. Linux servers. > Probably show which can handle more users, and what-not. > > 2) Try to push the FreeBSD Webring. > > 3) Try to push for more X support, and perhaps try to come up with a voting > scheme for a default windowmanager for FreeBSD or something like that. > > 4) Bombard every magazine that I know politely letting them know that I > found a great OS that is totally free and totally awesome (ack, I'm > starting to sound valley - like fer sure). Also, I have noticed some > letters to magazines by people pushing the free software thing, but only > mentioning Linux. Okay, I feel if you are going to be a "Free Sofware > Advocate" then don't be so one-sided and only mention Linux, try mentioning > the other free OS's and stuff. (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Hurd, Linux, > etc) Just to be fair. > > Hopefully, this project of mine will be done before Febuary. I may need > help with writing letters to magazines. I'm thinking of an easily > modifyable (that's probably not a word) form letter that can be changed for > different target audiences. > > Can anyone help? > I'd be glad to help. FreeBSD is the best OS I've ever used. I am running FreeBSD-current as of right now (cvsupped about 2 days ago, and make world done yesterday) and it is still one of the most stable OSs I've ever seen (I've used UniCOS (Cray), and Digital UNIX (OSF1), and IRIX, and SunOS, Solaris, Win 95, Win 98, and Win NT) and FreeBSD outdoes all the MS stuff, and as far as I can tell it outdoes even Digital Unix, IRIX, and the two sun UNIXs. Not to mention it is easier to install and upgrade than the commercial UNIXs (and for some even easier to install than the MS products). It is just amazing. But anyway, I'd be glad to go to local computer shows, and not just hand out flyers, but actually have a booth, (I may need some sort of financial support here.) where FreeBSD-stable, or -current is demonstrated, and the CD's (from Walnut Creek) are sold. I live in Maryland, and I was wondering if anyone could help. Kenneth Culver To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 23:05:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17730 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:05:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles351.castles.com [208.214.167.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17723 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:05:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA87169; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:01:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901110701.XAA87169@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Derbyshire cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:24:00 EST." <36996ED0.CA25B959@kew.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:01:59 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > With the release of FreeBSD 3.0, FreeBSD utterly blew the _official_ > evangelism end of it. There was this great new product with wonderful > features in it (CAM, SMP, and all the rest), and ... I didn't see squat about > it in the trade papers. 3.0 was not meant to be evangelised. Read the release materials. > Someone at the online end of either CMP publications or IDG (I forget which) > was actively looking for an official FreeBSD mouthpiece the week after 3.0 > came out, and they couldn't find anyone. Nada. Then they sure as hell didn't try very hard. I was at my desk every day; everyone at WC knows where I am, and there are several other people around that could talk about it if pressed. As the CDROM publisher, our phone numbers are printed on the CDROMs and contact information is to be found in the release documentation. Yes, we have a crap marketting organisation. Unfortunately, hackers make terrible publicists. Until we can raise the money to pay some people to do this well, we're kinda stuck here. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 10 23:38:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA22401 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:38:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.pl.cp (redion.nttmcl.com [216.69.69.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA22357 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:38:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from astralblue@usa.net) Received: from localhost (gene@localhost) by gw1.pl.cp (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA02622 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from astralblue@usa.net) X-Authentication-Warning: gw1.pl.cp: gene owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:37:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Eugene M. Kim" X-Sender: gene@gw1.pl.cp To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: Splash screen for 3.0-CURRENT! In-Reply-To: <199901110348.MAA17998@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (Directed from -current) Isn't now a good time for a ``FreeBSD splash screen contest?'' :-) :-] Cheers, Eugene On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: | A splash screen module has been added to 3.0-CURRENT. | | >yokota 1999/01/10 19:34:56 PST | > | > Modified files: | > sys/modules Makefile | > Added files: | > sys/modules/splash Makefile Makefile.inc | > sys/modules/splash/bmp Makefile splash_bmp.c | > Log: | [...] | | This version has rather limited capabilities, but should be a good | start... Well, sort of. | | It can handle W*ndows 256 color BMP file. (Other color depth probably | won't work.) The size of the image must be 320x200 or less. Too | restricted? Yes :-) | | (Is anyone interested in enhancing this, or writing new modules to | load other image file formats?) | | In order to see splash image when your kernel loads, do the following: | | Make sure the following line is added to your kernel configuration | file and rebuild a new kernel. | | pseudo-device splash | | Copy your favorite W*ndows BMP file to somewhere the boot loader can | see. I used "Powered by FreeBSD" logo by Brian Tao for testing :-) | | When the boot loader starts, load kernel, splash image file and | the splash image decoder module as follows. | | load kernel | load -t splash_image_data _your_BMP_file_ | load splash_bmp | boot | | ("-t splash_image_data" is extremely important as the the decoder will | look for this tag for the bitmap data.) | | Then you should see the image on your screen as soon as the kernel | loads. | | Note that if you specify -c or -v options to the boot command, the | splash image won't appear. (But is loaded and can be used as a screen | saver later; see below.) | | Note also that the splash screen won't be available if you use pcvt | driver. You must be using syscons. Sorry. | | The splash screen will go away if you hit any key (this may not work | immediately if the kernel is still probing devices), or you load a | screen saver. | | If you load the splash image decoder module but don't load a screen | saver, you can continue using the splash module as a screen saver. | Specify timeout value by running vidcontrol. | | vidcontrol -t timeout | | Then, the splash screen image will come back after the specified time. | | (You cannot use the regular screen saver as a splash screen, though.) | | Kazu | | | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org | with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message | -- Eugene M. Kim "Is your music unpopular? Make it popular; make music which people like, or make people who like your music." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 02:24:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11631 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:24:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lionking.org (blacker-99.caltech.edu [131.215.86.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11626 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:24:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from btman@ugcs.caltech.edu) Received: from localhost (btman@localhost) by lionking.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA18807; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:23:31 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: lionking.org: btman owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:23:31 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Tiemann X-Sender: btman@lionking.org To: Randall Hopper cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. In-Reply-To: <19990110222830.B909@pagesz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Randall Hopper wrote: > | http://www.lionking.org/~btman/chuck.jpg > > Pretty slick. Though I think he needs to lose the beer belly. Looks like > he ate the Linux Penguin (who's just stuffed himself with all those fish > Linus mentioned :-) Okay-- I wasn't sure whether we were trying to go for the same kind of cute-n-cuddly image that Linux has. :) Of course, we could always do some kind of massively muscular, fire-and-brimstone, night-on-bald-mountain kind of devil, but I don't know how well that would go over with society at large... :) Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 02:35:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12678 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:35:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from krusty.imgmkt.com (zarvon.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.66.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12672 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:35:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@krusty.imgmkt.com) Received: from agamemnon.imgmkt.com (root@agamemnon.imgmkt.com [192.168.60.21]) by krusty.imgmkt.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA22288 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:34:58 +1000 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by agamemnon.imgmkt.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA14416 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:35:03 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19990111203503.A14307@agamemnon.imgmkt.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:35:03 +1000 From: Ken Allan To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990110222830.B909@pagesz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian Tiemann on Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 02:23:31AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Brian Tiemann: > On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Randall Hopper wrote: > > | http://www.lionking.org/~btman/chuck.jpg > > Pretty slick. Though I think he needs to lose the beer belly. Looks like > > he ate the Linux Penguin (who's just stuffed himself with all those fish > > Linus mentioned :-) > Okay-- I wasn't sure whether we were trying to go for the same > kind of cute-n-cuddly image that Linux has. :) > Of course, we could always do some kind of massively muscular, > fire-and-brimstone, night-on-bald-mountain kind of devil, but I don't know > how well that would go over with society at large... :) Hahaha... I love it! We always knew FreeBSD means business -- But with a image like that, everyone else would too... -- Ken Allan ---------- Absentee, n.: A person with an income who has had the forethought to remove himself from the sphere of exaction. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 02:56:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14982 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:56:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA14975 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:56:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zzf0U-00012d-00; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:55:40 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA02496; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:55:06 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05426; Mon, 11 Jan 99 10:55:04 GMT Message-Id: <3699D87C.F866A42A@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:54:53 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Brian W. Buchanan" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > > I've just put up an alpha release of my GUI admin tool for FreeBSD. > I'd appreciate it if some folks could take a look at it and give me > some feedback. Bug reports, comments, suggestions, praise, and > criticism are all very welcome. :) > Excellent!. I really like this. The only part that is really of use to me, as my system is standalone, is the package manager. Actually I had decided that this would be a good (i.e. useful) project for me to do as a learning exercise for GUI programming. Sigh, guess I'll have to think of something else now :-(. A couple of things I'd like to suggest as enhancements: 1. A third pane that has 2 columns; one showing the dependencies of the selected package and the other listing which other (installed) packages depend on the selected one. 2. I like the feature of being able to copy the INDEX file from the CD to the HD and browse it, however there is a limitation here in that the packages are split across 2 CDs, and they are a different 2 in 2.2.8 than in 2.2.7. When I go looking for a package 9 times out of 10 it's on the 2nd CD I look at. How about being able to copy _both_ INDEX's to the HD & call them INDEX. and have the software merge the 2 to give a unified list and somewhere in the window display which CD the currently selected package is on. Finally one really minor gripe, but it would be nice if it were fixed. When the package manager window first opens you have to double-click on a line in the top pane to get the details displayed, after that single clicking works. Could this be easily fixed so that the first selection only requires a single click? Thanks for your efforts, and don't forget to let us know if/when new versions come out. -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 03:01:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA15506 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:01:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA15501 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:01:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Received: from jezebel.demon.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01216; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:00:55 GMT (envelope-from richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk) Message-ID: <3699DA3F.532024DB@jezebel.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:02:23 +0000 From: Richard Smith Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" CC: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Confused on Hacker/Cracker Definition References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason C. Wells wrote: > > I have long held the understanding that in computing, a "hacker" fixes > things and a "cracker" breaks them. As I continue to try to learn about > information security I read many articles. That distinction may certainly be true for the majority "in computing", the problem is that outside of computing the "cracker" term is never used. The press (and your average joe public) associate the term "hacker", only with the malicious kind. > It seems that the distinction between hacker and cracker is blurred in > cyberpress. This blurring seems to occur even on computer savvy news sites > like cnet, slashdot, and wired. > > TNHD still provides a negative view on "crackers". Some of these cracker > groups seem to claim themsleves as hackers. Is this a bid for credibility > akin to a terrorist claiming to be a politician? > > I am wondering if the meaning of words is shifting and the people that I > continue to call cracker are gaining (perceived) credibility enough to be > called hacker? Is my understanding outdated? The meaning of words is shifting all the time. I have a couple of teenagers with there own language; they use the same words as me - but mean something subtly (sometimes completely) different. :-) We're fighting a losing battle it seems. It might be better to drop the "hijacked" term altogether and find some other self descriptive noun. How about "freebsd-gurus@freebsd.org" ;-) > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- _______________________________________________________________________ Richard Smith Assistant Chief Engineer TRL Technology Limited To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 03:28:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18946 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:28:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smarter.than.nu (thought.calbbs.com [207.71.213.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18864 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:27:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA25781; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:27:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:27:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: Mark Ovens cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <3699D87C.F866A42A@uk.radan.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > 1. A third pane that has 2 columns; one showing the > dependencies of the selected package and the other > listing which other (installed) packages depend on > the selected one. Good idea. It's now on the TODO. > 2. I like the feature of being able to copy the INDEX > file from the CD to the HD and browse it, however > there is a limitation here in that the packages are > split across 2 CDs, and they are a different 2 in > 2.2.8 than in 2.2.7. When I go looking for a package > 9 times out of 10 it's on the 2nd CD I look at. How > about being able to copy _both_ INDEX's to the HD & > call them INDEX. and have the software > merge the 2 to give a unified list and somewhere in > the window display which CD the currently selected > package is on. The 'package add' stuff was a quick hack that's barely functional. It'll get better soon. > Finally one really minor gripe, but it would be nice if it were fixed. > When the package manager window first opens you have to double-click > on a line in the top pane to get the details displayed, after that > single clicking works. Could this be easily fixed so that the first > selection only requires a single click? I can't reproduce this -- single clicking on any line brings up the package description for me. Qt 1.41 has some known bugs with that particular widget, but 1.42 went into the ports collection today, so give it another try with the newer version and let me know if it still does it. > Thanks for your efforts, and don't forget to let us know if/when new > versions come out. I'll be sure to post. I'll also keep the web page updated regularly with anticipated release dates of new snapshots until I get anoncvs up and running once I find a home for my new server box. On a related note, is there a better list for discussion/announcements of FreeBSD-related software? -chat was the closest thing I could find to announce/discuss this in, but if there's a more appropriate place, I'll be happy to move the thread. If there isn't such a list, perhaps we should have one... maybe call it "freebsd-software (Discussion and announcement of third-party software for FreeBSD)"? -- Brian Buchanan brian@smarter.than.nu brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 04:05:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23436 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:05:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23431 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:05:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@pechter.ddns.org) Received: from pechter.ddns.org (bg-tc-ppp64.monmouth.com [209.191.60.65]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA16849; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by pechter.ddns.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA15003; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:03:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <199901111203.HAA15003@pechter.ddns.org> Subject: Re: this ran through my head yesterday... To: shibumi@cisco.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:03:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901101433.GAA06225@miranda-bsd.cisco.com> from "Kenton A. Hoover" at "Jan 10, 99 06:33:42 am" Reply-to: pechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 3.0-Stable X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kenton A. Hoover said: > To paraphrase: "No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft." > > At a Fortune 500 technology company that shall remain nameless, an evaluation > was done to decide on whether Microsoft Exchange should become the standard > MTA/MHA for the company. They actually hired Microsoft to do the evaluation > for them. Thats exactly like how people used to use IBM's services. I'd like > to be able to say that those were the bad ol' days, but apparently it isn't. > I've moved this to -chat. Hell, I worked for IBM services for a while. You'd be amazed how many people are going to Exchange. And how often it doesn't hold up. I've heard horror stories about DEC's exchange setup, and they've got the techies to baby it and the Alphas to run it. A number of folks were sticking to VMS and Unix mail systems. Probably Compaq will push 'em over the edge. They've gone Exchange for a lot of Lucent but my department's still on sendmail with Eudora and Netscape as the PC clients. Part of the problem is the massive amount of 45 mb Powerpoint presentations mailed to mailing lists. Unix and Sendmail wasn't meant for that. There's something to be said for a database with multiple pointers to one copy of a message. I'd prefer to see such junk put on a web page for download with an ascii "there is is" message... but they don't want to do that. Email is taking the place of anonymous ftp and the web for many non-technical types. It's a push delivery system with return-receipt (on some systems) and this is a plus for the business non-technical types. Someone who comes up with a better way will make a fortune. We'd need return-receipt, some kind of database to hold the messages. Easy message and database recovery and roll-back. Gee... I'm re-inventing All-In-1 and DecMail. Pass me the barf bag. (Yeah, I worked for DEC too and had my worst time with DecMail message pointer corruption--due to hardware problems and Unibus loading). Anyway... I'm waiting to see if I can slip a FreeBSD mail server in one day. Lucent's got a number of internal programs ported only to SunOS4/Solaris2 for employee database lookups. I've been sticking with the supported SunOS/Solaris configs for mail at present, but this may change. Bill ---- " ... Overall we've found FreeBSD to excel in performace, stability, technical support, and of course price. Two years after discovering FreeBSD, we have yet to find a reason why we switch to anything else" -David Filo, Yahoo! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 04:28:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26187 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:28:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26182 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:28:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id XAA18704; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:28:02 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19990111232756.33131@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:27:56 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "Brian W. Buchanan" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD References: <3699D87C.F866A42A@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Brian W. Buchanan on Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 03:27:17AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 03:27:17AM -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > > On a related note, is there a better list for discussion/announcements of > FreeBSD-related software? -chat was the closest thing I could find to > announce/discuss this in, but if there's a more appropriate place, I'll be > happy to move the thread. If there isn't such a list, perhaps we should > have one... maybe call it "freebsd-software (Discussion and announcement > of third-party software for FreeBSD)"? If I were producing something aimed at the needs of newbies, then I would want to hear them express their needs directly and sound out a few ideas with them before investing too much time in a project. No-one can give better feedback on usability for newbies than newbies, and no-one will appreciate your efforts more. Freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org is a non-support list where newbies can socialise as equals, plan and discuss their activities, and for anything newbie-related which is not covered by any other list. If this is your target group, give them the opportunity to help you too. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 05:03:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29804 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from assurance.rstcorp.com ([206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA29798; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:03:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01564; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:02:58 -0500 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma001562; Mon, 11 Jan 99 08:02:56 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08013; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:02:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id IAA42488; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:02:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:02:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901111302.IAA42488@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> From: "Viren R. Shah" To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re:Splash screen for 3.0-CURRENT! In-Reply-To: <199901110348.MAA17998@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> References: <199901110348.MAA17998@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [set to -chat, since this is not -current material anymore. Bcc'ed to -current] >>>>> "Kazu" == Kazutaka YOKOTA writes: Kazu> It can handle W*ndows 256 color BMP file. (Other color depth probably Kazu> won't work.) The size of the image must be 320x200 or less. Too Kazu> restricted? Yes :-) Kazu> Copy your favorite W*ndows BMP file to somewhere the boot loader can Kazu> see. I used "Powered by FreeBSD" logo by Brian Tao for testing :-) Where do you get hold of the "Powered By FreeBSD" BMP file? Anyone else have any good splash screens? Viren -- Viren R. Shah "Creeping featurism is a disease, fatal if not treated promptly" -- Don Norman in _The Design of Everyday Things_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 05:39:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA03667 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA03662 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:39:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zzhYG-0000Ze-00; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:38:41 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA03318; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:37:52 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08684; Mon, 11 Jan 99 13:37:51 GMT Message-Id: <3699FEA3.3CCB9512@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:37:39 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Brian W. Buchanan" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Brian W. Buchanan" wrote: > > I can't reproduce this -- single clicking on any line brings up the > package description for me. Qt 1.41 has some known bugs with that > particular widget, but 1.42 went into the ports collection today, so give > it another try with the newer version and let me know if it still does it. > I will do that. There is another thing that is probably caused by Qt. When the package info window does not have focus the highlight bar flickers. > > Thanks for your efforts, and don't forget to let us know if/when new > > versions come out. > > I'll be sure to post. I'll also keep the web page updated regularly with > anticipated release dates of new snapshots until I get anoncvs up and > running once I find a home for my new server box. > > On a related note, is there a better list for discussion/announcements of > FreeBSD-related software? -chat was the closest thing I could find to > announce/discuss this in, but if there's a more appropriate place, I'll be > happy to move the thread. If there isn't such a list, perhaps we should > have one... maybe call it "freebsd-software (Discussion and announcement > of third-party software for FreeBSD)"? > That seems like a good idea, a kind of -announce for non-core stuff. It should be moderated, any follow-up/discussion on any announcements should be in -questions or -chat. That way it could be used as a reference to what's been released recently, or finding out the current version of an app. > -- > Brian Buchanan brian@smarter.than.nu > brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." > -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 06:33:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09354 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:33:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09347 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zziOh-00004G-00; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:32:51 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA03668; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:32:42 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09882; Mon, 11 Jan 99 14:32:41 GMT Message-Id: <369A0B7E.C4011393@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:32:30 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Viren R. Shah" Cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen for 3.0-CURRENT! References: <199901110348.MAA17998@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <199901111302.IAA42488@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Viren R. Shah" wrote: > > [set to -chat, since this is not -current material anymore. Bcc'ed to > -current] > > >>>>> "Kazu" == Kazutaka YOKOTA writes: > > Kazu> It can handle W*ndows 256 color BMP file. (Other color depth probably > Kazu> won't work.) The size of the image must be 320x200 or less. Too > Kazu> restricted? Yes :-) > > Kazu> Copy your favorite W*ndows BMP file to somewhere the boot loader can > Kazu> see. I used "Powered by FreeBSD" logo by Brian Tao for testing :-) > > Where do you get hold of the "Powered By FreeBSD" BMP file? Anyone > else have any good splash screens? > Install xv from the ports, load up a GIF or JPEG and save it as a BMP > Viren > -- > Viren R. Shah > "Creeping featurism is a disease, fatal if not treated promptly" > -- Don Norman in _The Design of Everyday Things_ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 06:45:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10964 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:45:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from assurance.rstcorp.com ([206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10959 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:45:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04412; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:44:59 -0500 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma004407; Mon, 11 Jan 99 09:44:23 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10034; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:44:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) id JAA66679; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:44:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:44:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901111444.JAA66679@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> From: "Viren R. Shah" To: Mark Ovens Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen for 3.0-CURRENT! In-Reply-To: <369A0B7E.C4011393@uk.radan.com> References: <199901110348.MAA17998@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <199901111302.IAA42488@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> <369A0B7E.C4011393@uk.radan.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Ovens writes: Mark> "Viren R. Shah" wrote: >> >> Where do you get hold of the "Powered By FreeBSD" BMP file? Anyone >> else have any good splash screens? >> Mark> Install xv from the ports, load up a GIF or JPEG and save it as a BMP Yeah, I know, and I just did that. however, I was refering to hopefully something that had been done specifically as a splash screen. The couple of images I've tried do not work well either as a splash screen (aesthetically), nor as a 320x200 256 color image. :-( Mark> Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Viren -- Viren R. Shah "Creeping featurism is a disease, fatal if not treated promptly" -- Don Norman in _The Design of Everyday Things_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 09:39:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03066 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:39:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA03052 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:39:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990111173801.16312.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.2] by send101.yahoomail.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:38:01 PST Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:38:01 -0800 (PST) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Make a living on FreeBSD To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! I thought this was rather interesting. They list all their machines running FreeBSD. Nice! http://support.pair.com/status/details.html "There are presently one hundred and four Web servers in operation at pair Networks. Our servers are currently handling more than 43,000,000 hits per day. " == Regards: Tommy - The source of all good beers... thallgren@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 09:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03758 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA03753 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:44:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19990111174525.11791.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.116.188.2] by send104.yahoomail.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:45:25 PST Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:45:25 -0800 (PST) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Re: Make a living on FreeBSD To: Tommy Hallgren , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I forgot the link to this page containing the load of each of the servers. http://support.pair.com/status/load.html ---Tommy Hallgren wrote: > > Hi! > > I thought this was rather interesting. They list all their machines > running FreeBSD. Nice! > > http://support.pair.com/status/details.html > > "There are presently one hundred and four Web servers in operation at > pair Networks. Our servers are currently handling > more than 43,000,000 hits per day. " > > > == > Regards: Tommy - The source of all good beers... > thallgren@yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > == Regards: Tommy - The source of all good beers... thallgren@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 10:57:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11496 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:57:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11491 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:57:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul10.u.washington.edu (root@saul10.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.73]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id KAA31436 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:56:40 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul10.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id KAA23709 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:56:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:56:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Jobs in Seattle Area Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Any of you Seattlites have any positions available for a Tech Support/Junior Sysadmin/HTML Coder/Hardware Fixer? I am a college student looking for a part time job. Any help you folks might offer would be great. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 11:59:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA20953 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:59:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA20947 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:59:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.33]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3FCF; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:58:57 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3699DA38.B034F4C0@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:06:34 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. Cc: FreeBSD Chat Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ redirected to chat just in case ;) ] On 11-Jan-99 Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> >> On 11-Jan-99 Daniel C. Sobral wrote: >> > "Kenton A. Hoover" wrote: >> >> >> >> Read the licensing agreement carefully: we are required by the >> >> University of California to give recognition to The Dark Lord for the >> >> souls sold during the development of BSD. Hell's marketing people >> >> insisted on this. >> > >> > Now, THERE is a reasonable explanation! :-) >> >> So now BSD falls under Bill Gates? Oh lord, think I'll switch to linux >> =P > > Oh, come on, Bill Gates might be Evil, and might be the Anti-Christ, > but do you really think he could qualify as the Lord of Darkness? > Gimme a break! Remember, Lucifer used to be a good guy... can BG > claim that much? :-) True, Lucifer, or better Lux Fero used to be the highest of all angels. But that makes me wonder though, if Bill ain't the Prince of Darkness, then why would Luci allow Bill to make Windows, because `Chuck' would also fall under Luci's leadership. Or is that another one of Luci's intricate plans? ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 12:25:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24666 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:25:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24653 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:25:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id FAA18614; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 05:23:38 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <369A5DAE.CF0CFB25@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 05:23:10 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > True, Lucifer, or better Lux Fero used to be the highest of all angels. But > that makes me wonder though, if Bill ain't the Prince of Darkness, then why > would Luci allow Bill to make Windows, because `Chuck' would also fall > under Luci's leadership. Or is that another one of Luci's intricate plans? > ;) Well, that's a good question, and I'm pretty sure there is a good answer for it. It is just that I can't think of one right now. :-) Oh, I got it! You are confusing things here. See, Windows is damnation sent from hell to temper the strong and fell the weak (and one gets really impressed with the amount of weak around... :). Now, Chuck, on the other hand, is part of Hell's contract with CSRG. It is just a marketing thing. But *BSD* is *NOT* a creation of devils. It is a creation of people who sold their souls for the general good of humanity. You are probably asking yourself why would Lucifer want to be associated with something for the general good of humanity, right? Well, remember: he is devious. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com If you sell your soul to the Devil and all you get is an MCSE from it, you haven't gotten market rate. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 13:31:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03768 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03762 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:31:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA57694; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:30:35 -0800 (PST) To: Mike Smith cc: Drew Derbyshire , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:01:59 PST." <199901110701.XAA87169@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:30:35 -0800 Message-ID: <57689.916090235@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 3.0 was not meant to be evangelised. Read the release materials. Yes, just to clarify this, we were indeed very much worried about the stability of 3.0 and were more concerned about compromising our reputation for robust behavior than we were about getting PR for 3.0. Was this a tactical mistake? Maybe, and only time will tell, but I still think that while you're doing well it's a good idea to stick to what you know, and what we know best is being conservative and always underselling, to a certain degree, our new technology until we're more sure of its applicability to production environments. Ideally, I'd like to see the convergence of these two goals occur at the point where we have enough personnel to both do exciting new features and test them to the point where we're confident of them. There is still plenty of time for volunteer developers to join us before 4.0 comes out! :-) > > Someone at the online end of either CMP publications or IDG (I forget which ) > > was actively looking for an official FreeBSD mouthpiece the week after 3.0 > > came out, and they couldn't find anyone. Nada. Actaully, just to second Mike's assertion that they didn't try very hard, I also contacted them from Holland and gave them contact information there. I never even got a reply to my email. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 13:44:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05179 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:44:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05142 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:44:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 0zzoTn-0006XI-00; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:02:32 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA04966; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:01:53 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15712; Mon, 11 Jan 99 21:01:51 GMT Message-Id: <369A66BA.A0FE6A1D@uk.radan.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:01:46 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Jobs in Seattle Area References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > Any of you Seattlites have any positions available for a Tech > Support/Junior Sysadmin/HTML Coder/Hardware Fixer? > > I am a college student looking for a part time job. Any help you folks > might offer would be great. > Hey Jason, Seattle? isn't that just down the road from a place called Redmond? IIRC there's a smallish company there called Microsod, Microsift, Micro-something. Anyway they own Hotmail which runs on FreeBSD (& Solaris). I guess they might have use of a FreeBSD expert. ;-) > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 15:07:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15723 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:07:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15710; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:07:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA12450; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:48 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA13210; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:47 +1030 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:46 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mike Smith , Drew Derbyshire , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. In-Reply-To: <57689.916090235@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 3.0 was not meant to be evangelised. Read the release materials. > > Yes, just to clarify this, we were indeed very much worried about the > stability of 3.0 and were more concerned about compromising our > reputation for robust behavior than we were about getting PR for 3.0. Once 3.1-stable comes along in a month, is it presumably now considered mature/stable enough to start shouting that fact from the rooftops.. Most people have short memories; they're probably not likely to notice if we just focus on the features of 3.1, and add something like "FreeBSD 3.1 is the newest release along the 3.x branch. New features in FreeBSD 3 include [...]" and basically use all the feature-hype which would have gone out in the 3.0 press releases. FWIW, I agree with the somewhat low-key release of 3.0 - as it turns out there probably weren't any show-stopping problems, but it could have turned into a real PR disaster for us (if you take a chance on something, perhaps by convincing your pointy-haired boss that it's a good thing, and it royally screws up on you, well, you're not likely to go back, are you? :) Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 15:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA18272 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:28:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18259 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:28:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4027.ime.net [209.90.195.37]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id SAA17806 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:28:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:25:57 -0500 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Not sure if anyone has seen this, but while trying to find an MP3 by the band "Firewater", Altavista threw a web page about a mobile mp3 player running Linux at me. Later looks revealed www.empeg.com Has anyone seen this? I think it's downright amazing.. Unfortunately they're on the linux bandwagon.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 15:47:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19985 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:47:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from matrix.42.org (matrix.42.org [194.246.250.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19977 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:47:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sec@42.org) Received: (from sec@localhost) by matrix.42.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA11797 (sender ); Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:46:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:46:40 +0100 From: Stefan `Sec` Zehl To: "Eugene M. Kim" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen for 3.0-CURRENT! Message-ID: <19990112004640.A11713@matrix.42.org> X-Current-Backlog: 245 messages References: <199901110348.MAA17998@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Eugene M. Kim on Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 11:37:53PM -0800 I-love-doing-this: really Accept-Languages: de, en X-URL: http://sec.42.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 11:37:53PM -0800, Eugene M. Kim wrote: > > (Directed from -current) > > Isn't now a good time for a ``FreeBSD splash screen contest?'' :-) :-] While probably not applicable for others, this is what we use here: http://www.pi.musin.de/~sec/kommsrvlogo.gif (also there as .bmp) It's the splashscreen on "Kommunikationserver" which is a smallis box with 2.2-STABLE, squid, apache, bind. An ethernet card and an isdn-card with bisdn and ipfilter/nat on it. We give it to schools in the Munich/Germany area so they have an easy no-hassle way to access the internet. CU, Sec -- McAffee gibt's wohl für FreeBSD. Der soll auch versteckte Viren in /sbin/init finden. :-)) - Joerg Wunsch am 21.8.97 in de.comp.os.bsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 18:01:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07301 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:01:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kirk.NetUnlimited.net (Kirk.netunlimited.net [208.128.132.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07287 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:01:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brownicm@prokyon.com) Received: from molly.my.domain (Khan-209.netunlimited.net [208.165.3.210]) by Kirk.NetUnlimited.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA10848 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:00:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:58:59 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Browning To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Remember. Linux is not your enemy. On 11-Jan-99 Drew Baxter wrote: > Has anyone seen this? I think it's downright amazing.. Unfortunately > they're on the linux bandwagon.. > > > --- > Drew "Droobie" Baxter > Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) > OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA > http://www.droo.orland.me.us > > PGP ID: 409A1F7D > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Chris Browning Date: 11-Jan-99 Time: 20:56:21 "if you believe in Nothing... honey, It believes in you." ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 18:21:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10435 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:21:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10426 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:21:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4027.ime.net [209.90.195.37]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id VAA17987; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:18:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990111211327.00a29ee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:14:27 -0500 To: Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:58 PM 1/11/99 -0500, Chris Browning wrote: >Remember. Linux is not your enemy. > Right, I'm just curious if anyone's tried to do this with FreeBSD.. This is the kinda stuff that advocates Linux.. People doing insane little projects (which aparantely there are 5 of that I've seen, 1 of which uses Windows and 1 uses MSDOS).. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 18:27:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11394 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:27:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from subcellar.mwci.net (subcellar.mwci.net [205.254.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11388 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:27:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbutt@mwci.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by subcellar.mwci.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17630; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:27:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:27:09 -0600 (CST) From: "James D. Butt" To: Drew Baxter cc: Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990111211327.00a29ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Right, I'm just curious if anyone's tried to do this with FreeBSD.. This is > the kinda stuff that advocates Linux.. People doing insane little projects > (which aparantely there are 5 of that I've seen, 1 of which uses Windows > and 1 uses MSDOS).. Well I have the machine built.. and parts of the software done.. The LCD panel that I ordered came DOA.. So when I have the panel.. We shall have an example of a FreeBSD Car mpeg3 player.. I need to find a BSD Daemon that is ASCII art that fits 20 char across though.. My ASCII art abilities are pretty bad. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- James D. Butt 'J.D.' Network Engineer Voice 319-557-8463 Network Operations Center Fax 319-557-9771 MidWest Communications, Inc. Pager 319-557-6347 241 Main St. noc@mwci.net Dubuque, IA 52001 jbutt@mwci.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------- JD's thoughts: Drive defensively Buy a tank. FreeBSD: The power to serve! www.freebsd.org I use UNIX because reboots are for hardware upgrades. You use windowze because the guy on TV told you to ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 18:32:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11708 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:32:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11702 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA20192; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:31:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Message-ID: <369AB416.642B24BC@plutotech.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:31:50 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990111211327.00a29ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Right, I'm just curious if anyone's tried to do this with FreeBSD. Not in my car, no. But in my home, yes. The machine room (well, machine closet is more accurate), has a rack with my main fileserver in it, which recently got a sound card installed into it. I've been using "tosha" (in the ports collection) to "rip" the data off audio CDs and saving them to disk. I'm using "sox" to convert the raw PCM data into .wav format. And I'm using the 8hz MP3 encoder (see http://www.8hz.com) to encode them. 8hz provides a FreeBSD binary of their encoder free of charge. Finally, the machine closet also contains my amplifier and equalizer, which takes the outputs from the soundcard. I use mpg123 (also in the ports collection) to play the MP3 files (located in /usr/local/share/mpeg, of course) to play them out, using Luigi's sound driver. Wiring into the various rooms' speakers provides the sound! And it's 100% FreeBSD. :-) --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 20:11:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA21740 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:11:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kendra.ne.mediaone.net (kendra.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.94.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21735 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:11:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from software@kew.com) Received: from sonata.hh.kew.com (root@sonata-dmz.hh.kew.com [192.168.205.1]) by kendra.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA16779; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from kew.com (minerva.hh.kew.com [192.168.203.144]) by sonata.hh.kew.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA03374; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:11:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369ACB59.9AE55718@kew.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:11:05 -0500 From: Drew Derbyshire Organization: Kendra Electronic Wonderworks, Stoneham, MA 02180 (http://www.kew.com) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. References: <199901110701.XAA87169@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith wrote: > 3.0 was not meant to be evangelised. Read the release materials. It was meant to be evangelised. It just wasn't meant to be run in production. :-) -- Drew Derbyshire UUPC/extended e-mail: software@kew.com Telephone: 617-279-9812 "You take my self, you take my self-control . . ." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 22:46:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05692 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:46:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05683 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:46:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4032.ime.net [209.90.195.42]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id BAA18198; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:45:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990112013323.00aece00@genesis.ispace.com> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112013323.00aece00@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:36:15 -0500 To: Sean Kelly From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Cc: Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <369AB416.642B24BC@plutotech.com> References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990111211327.00a29ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:31 PM 1/11/99 -0700, Sean Kelly wrote: >> Right, I'm just curious if anyone's tried to do this with FreeBSD. > >Not in my car, no. > >But in my home, yes. The machine room (well, machine closet is more >accurate), has a rack with my main fileserver in it, which recently got >a sound card installed into it. I've been using "tosha" (in the ports >collection) to "rip" the data off audio CDs and saving them to disk. >I'm using "sox" to convert the raw PCM data into .wav format. And I'm >using the 8hz MP3 encoder (see http://www.8hz.com) to encode them. 8hz >provides a FreeBSD binary of their encoder free of charge. > >Finally, the machine closet also contains my amplifier and equalizer, >which takes the outputs from the soundcard. I use mpg123 (also in the >ports collection) to play the MP3 files (located in >/usr/local/share/mpeg, of course) to play them out, using Luigi's sound >driver. > >Wiring into the various rooms' speakers provides the sound! And it's >100% FreeBSD. :-) It's people like you which is why we have caffiene as a cash business :-) I used to use a laptop in the car to play mp3s.. Kinda a pain to screw with though.. I did fill out the form at empeg.com though. very bizarre and interesting. Although with discoveries of mp3 decoding chips, you'd think they'd come up with some cheap firmware and supercede the need for the OS. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 11 22:50:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05972 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles165.castles.com [208.214.165.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05964 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:50:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01143; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901120646.WAA01143@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:36:15 EST." <4.1.19990112013323.00aece00@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990112013323.00aece00@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:46:38 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I used to use a laptop in the car to play mp3s.. Kinda a pain to screw with > though.. I did fill out the form at empeg.com though. very bizarre and > interesting. Although with discoveries of mp3 decoding chips, you'd think > they'd come up with some cheap firmware and supercede the need for the OS. They'd lose 90% of their market if they stopped using Linux, obviously enough. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 02:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26490 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:06:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from k6n1.znh.org ([207.109.235.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26481 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:06:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zach@uffdaonline.net) Received: (from zach@localhost) by k6n1.znh.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07293; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:06:14 GMT (envelope-from zach) Message-ID: <19990112040614.A6692@znh.org> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:06:14 -0600 From: Zach Heilig To: Sean Kelly , Drew Baxter Cc: Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990111211327.00a29ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <369AB416.642B24BC@plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <369AB416.642B24BC@plutotech.com>; from Sean Kelly on Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 07:31:50PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 07:31:50PM -0700, Sean Kelly wrote: > But in my home, yes. The machine room (well, machine closet is more > accurate), has a rack with my main fileserver in it, which recently got > a sound card installed into it. I've been using "tosha" (in the ports > collection) to "rip" the data off audio CDs and saving them to disk. > I'm using "sox" to convert the raw PCM data into .wav format. And I'm > using the 8hz MP3 encoder (see http://www.8hz.com) to encode them. 8hz > provides a FreeBSD binary of their encoder free of charge. FWIW, I've noticed that stuff encoded with 8hz doesn't always sound quite right. It's very subtile, but can become annoying at times. There is another free mp3 encoder at ' http://bladeenc.home.ml.org ', with a BSDi binary (not sure if there is a FreeBSD one there or not, I haven't looked for a few months). This one has far better sound to my ears. -- Zach Heilig / Zach Heilig A Real Man's (tm) temperature guide: Spit on the ground and watch. If you tire of watching before it freezes, it is warm. If it freezes upon hitting the ground, it is cold. If it bounces off the ground, it is very cold. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 04:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA09212 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:06:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk (mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk [130.246.170.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09152 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:06:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tmb@mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk) Received: (from tmb@localhost) by mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA35665; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:05:27 GMT (envelope-from tmb) Message-ID: <19990112120527.A35658@asd1.rl.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:05:27 +0000 From: Mark Blackman To: Tommy Hallgren Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Make a living on FreeBSD References: <19990111173801.16312.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990111173801.16312.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>; from Tommy Hallgren on Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 09:38:01AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org even better they do serious cheerleading for FreeBSD on following page.. http://www.pair.com/pair/advantages.html On Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 09:38:01AM -0800, Tommy Hallgren wrote: > Hi! > > I thought this was rather interesting. They list all their machines > running FreeBSD. Nice! > > http://support.pair.com/status/details.html > > "There are presently one hundred and four Web servers in operation at > pair Networks. Our servers are currently handling > more than 43,000,000 hits per day. " > > > == > Regards: Tommy - The source of all good beers... > thallgren@yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Mark Blackman Radar Group Radio Communications Research Unit Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Chilton, Didcot Oxon OX11 0QX, United Kingdom To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 04:09:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10123 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:09:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.ruh-bath.swest.nhs.uk (fw128.nhs.uk [194.6.81.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10118 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:09:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rich@ruh-bath.swest.nhs.uk) Received: by post.ruh-bath.swest.nhs.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:08:58 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Wood, Richard" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Make a living on FreeBSD Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:08:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12 January 1999 12:05, Mark Blackman[SMTP:tmb@mescalero.asd1.rl.ac.uk] wrote: > even better they do serious cheerleading for FreeBSD on following page.. > > http://www.pair.com/pair/advantages.html I believe they are in the process of doing an article for Daemonnews. Rich (a satisfied pair customer) -- Rich Wood Home: rich@dynamite.org Work: rich@ruh-bath.swest.nhs.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 05:56:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA21881 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 05:56:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po6.andrew.cmu.edu (PO6.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21868 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 05:56:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tcrimi+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po6.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id IAA01315; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:55:37 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:55:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from breckenridge.weh.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:55:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from breckenridge.weh.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:55:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.breckenridge.weh.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.breckenridge.weh.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:55:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:55:22 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Valentino Crimi To: Sean Kelly , Drew Baxter , Zach Heilig Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Cc: Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990112040614.A6692@znh.org> References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990111211327.00a29ee0@genesis.ispace.com> <369AB416.642B24BC@plutotech.com> <19990112040614.A6692@znh.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Excerpts from FreeBSD-Chat: 12-Jan-99 Re: Car Mp3 Player by Zach Heilig@uffdaonline. >free mp3 encoder at ' http://bladeenc.home.ml.org ', with a BSDi binary (not >sure if there is a FreeBSD one there or not, I haven't looked for a few >months). This one has far better sound to my ears. Yup, there is. There is even a port for FreeBSD-Alpha (which just blazes at things like mp3 encoding). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 06:16:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24470 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:16:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24456; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:16:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA68380; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:15:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Kris Kennaway Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Mike Smith , Drew Derbyshire , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 12 Jan 1999 15:15:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: Kris Kennaway's message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:46 +1030 (CST)" Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway writes: > FWIW, I agree with the somewhat low-key release of 3.0 - as it turns > out there probably weren't any show-stopping problems, but it could > have turned into a real PR disaster for us 3.0 had at least two show-stopper bugs which would have made it worse than useless in a development environment, namely the dying daemons bug and the inetd signal bug. Add to that the fact that the Elf transition was not complete yet and that largish parts of the system were too new to trust (remember, 3.0 was released a very short time after E-day, C-day and P-day) and that we still had lots of code in that were due for a bobitt (re. the danish raiding expedition). All in all, 3.0 was not ready for deployment in a production environment, and to advertise it would have been to shoot ourselves in the foot. ISTR that Jordan had to obfuscate 3.0 on ftp.cdrom.com because too many people were installing it when they didn't have the competence to run 3.0... then we started getting complaints that it was too hard to find... I guess you can't make everybody happy :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 06:18:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24643 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24621 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:18:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA68390; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:17:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Stefan `Sec` Zehl Cc: "Eugene M. Kim" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Splash screen for 3.0-CURRENT! References: <199901110348.MAA17998@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> <19990112004640.A11713@matrix.42.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 12 Jan 1999 15:17:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: Stefan `Sec` Zehl's message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:46:40 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stefan `Sec` Zehl writes: > While probably not applicable for others, this is what we use here: > http://www.pi.musin.de/~sec/kommsrvlogo.gif (also there as .bmp) Beautiful! could you make a version without the text? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 07:37:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03193 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:37:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03185 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:37:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA15621; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:50 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Drew Baxter cc: Sean Kelly , Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990112013323.00aece00@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Drew Baxter wrote: > I used to use a laptop in the car to play mp3s.. Kinda a pain to screw with > though.. I did fill out the form at empeg.com though. very bizarre and > interesting. Although with discoveries of mp3 decoding chips, you'd think > they'd come up with some cheap firmware and supercede the need for the OS. Does no one else have a Diamond RIO? I got one fer Christmas and it kicks ass. Smaller than a pack of cigarettes, has 32MB of flash memory built-in (which is, admittedly, only large enough for four or five good-quality MP3s), and I bought a two dollar cord from Radio Shack with a mini stereo plug at each end that allows me to plug it into the car stereo. Of course, the software used to load the music into the RIO only runs on Winblows, AFAIK :P Other than that, though, it's rather neat. All solid state...no skipping :) Cheers, Mick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 07:39:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03369 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nw.net (host-126.68.galesburg.net [207.177.68.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03359 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:39:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from denny@nw.net) Received: (from denny@localhost) by JAA29915nw.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA29915; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:45:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from denny) Message-ID: <19990112094519.A28355@inw.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:45:19 -0600 From: Denny Reiter To: Drew Baxter , Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990111211327.00a29ee0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990111211327.00a29ee0@genesis.ispace.com>; from Drew Baxter on Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 09:14:27PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoting Drew Baxter (netmonger@genesis.ispace.com): > > > At 08:58 PM 1/11/99 -0500, Chris Browning wrote: > >Remember. Linux is not your enemy. > > > > Right, I'm just curious if anyone's tried to do this with FreeBSD.. This is > the kinda stuff that advocates Linux.. People doing insane little projects > (which aparantely there are 5 of that I've seen, 1 of which uses Windows > and 1 uses MSDOS).. > Hi, Actually, just before Christmas I started on just such a project. While the holidays have gotten in the way, I do have a very, very Alpha system working, when it's warm. My biggest problem right now (besides the fact that I haven't done any real programming in about 5 years) is the COLD. It's so damn cold here in Illinois that I have to take the thing out of the car whenever I leave. And every- one else was having problems with heat dissipation :-) When I get it working to some extent, I'll post more info and put up a page. -- Regards, Denny Reiter McNeill Asphalt Company mcneills@inw.net "Gonna party like it's 1899...." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 09:40:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16410 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16397 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:40:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4028.ime.net [209.90.195.38]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id MAA19007; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:39:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990112123346.00af0200@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:38:51 -0500 To: "Jasper O'Malley" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Cc: Sean Kelly , Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990112013323.00aece00@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:36 AM 1/12/99 -0600, Jasper O'Malley wrote: > >Does no one else have a Diamond RIO? I got one fer Christmas and it kicks >ass. Smaller than a pack of cigarettes, has 32MB of flash memory built-in >(which is, admittedly, only large enough for four or five good-quality >MP3s), and I bought a two dollar cord from Radio Shack with a mini stereo >plug at each end that allows me to plug it into the car stereo. I think 32mb isn't gonna do it for me :-).. Sure it's a really neat idea and all, but I think you'll find there's a difference between using a 'Discman' in a car, and having an in-dash CD player as far as quality goes. I'd imagine the jump with the Diamond RIO is the same way, not enough juice if you want to do some insane amp work in the trunk. > >Of course, the software used to load the music into the RIO only runs on >Winblows, AFAIK :P Other than that, though, it's rather neat. All solid >state...no skipping :) I'd imagine someone is going to try to break it down and develop a UN*X management tool. The palmpilot software is only for Windows (maybe Mac too), but someone did it for that if I recall. I'd have more respect for the RIO if I could put 512K worth of DIMM's on the back side of it. I don't see 1 AA battery supporting 4x128mbx3.3v though, that'd be 13.2 volts. Lot of juice, and voltage would have to be applied in order to keep the memory from erasing as well. These things will progress better once we have larger sizes of smartcards. I don't know where the direction is going to go, first they're using hard drives, now we're back to memory/solid-state, then they have UDMA/66 drives now. Probably some big solid-state thing will come along again. I will say this though, the Sony Mavica cameras have the right idea when it comes to floppies for storage. Even if they probably did it because they don't want their Magnetic Media Division to lose interest :) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 09:56:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18534 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:56:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (hsv1-32.airnet.net [207.242.81.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18527 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:56:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02989; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:54:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369B8C6E.DBB366ED@airnet.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:54:54 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ollivier Robert CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: contributing to the free(dom) community References: <19990111021802.B77778@keltia.freenix.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > 2) A large scale project similar to Granite Canyon. The difference > > would be that rather than just one secondary server, there would be > > many. It would be possible to spread the load over many servers > > and networks. Contributors would set up secondary DNS dyndns.nws.net Sorry, freebsd.nws.net is taken. ;-) > Please note that EU.org is a naming service whareas ML.org was also a > webhosting one, something EU.org doesn't want (and can't anyway) to > provide. ML.ORG did redirects right? They had a banner for Pair Networks, I think. /Former resident. -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 10:19:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21146 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:19:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (hsv1-32.airnet.net [207.242.81.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21141 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:19:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03047; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:15:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369B9156.F12D4AFF@airnet.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:15:50 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Kelly CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Printed man pages (was: Looking for the best webmaster.) References: <199901060227.UAA37005@nospam.hiwaay.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly wrote: > There is nothing like a printed book to put yourself to sleep with at > night. I keep my copies of the ORA Sendmail, Bind, and MH, books handy > for treating insomnia. I'm only going to say this much: There is a serial terminal located beside my bed. lynx and less are my best friends. I should probably get more sleep than I do but sometimes you feel > < that close. -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 10:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23069 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:37:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from subcellar.mwci.net (subcellar.mwci.net [205.254.160.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23064 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbutt@mwci.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by subcellar.mwci.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29100; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:36:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:36:10 -0600 (CST) From: "James D. Butt" To: Denny Reiter cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <19990112094519.A28355@inw.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 5 years) is the COLD. It's so damn cold here in Illinois that I > have to take the thing out of the car whenever I leave. And every- > one else was having problems with heat dissipation :-) Cold is a major issue.. Even with matrix orbitals Extended temp units are -20 to +70 C That is no good for a few months here.. Over last few weeks any night time temp at -20 C would be nice. But even more of a problem is hard drives.. They do not like cold much at all.. When they are spining they seem to keep warm but I really hesitate to spin a drive up that has been sitting for a few hours bellow freezing. I have been trying to figure out how to best deal with the above situations. I did get a Hot Little Therm www.spiderplant.com to measure tempature. Things I have come up with are: 1. Leave the drive and LCD spun up. Questions.. Will they maintain a warm temp?? (I think the drives will but the LCD I am pretty sure will not) 2. Figure out someway to boot the machine to some type of flash and somehow not spin up the drives or turn on the LCD until it is sure the temp is in range. (Normal solid state electronics may be better to just not even give the machine power until it is in temp range (Need to pull some project books out)) 3. Find some sort of non mechanical storage device that does not have problems with the cold. Wow if I would only win the lottery. Then the problem is as Denny said.. Here we deal with a tempature variation from -30 F now to 110 F in august. So when it is hot I am going to have to deal with it melting. What I would really like is to have the machine running 24x7 and I need some type of global network that works like everywhere (even if it was fairly low speed (300-2400bps) so that I can constantly stay in touch while I travel.. then when you finger me@mobile it will output my current lat/long and velocity and stuff like that.. Really does not have much of a point but seems sorta cool.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- James D. Butt 'J.D.' Network Engineer Voice 319-557-8463 Network Operations Center Fax 319-557-9771 MidWest Communications, Inc. Pager 319-557-6347 241 Main St. noc@mwci.net Dubuque, IA 52001 jbutt@mwci.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------- JD's thoughts: Drive defensively Buy a tank. FreeBSD: The power to serve! www.freebsd.org I use UNIX because reboots are for hardware upgrades. You use windowze because the guy on TV told you to ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 12:01:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03362 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:01:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles228.castles.com [208.214.165.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03355 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05302; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:57:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901121957.LAA05302@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "James D. Butt" cc: Denny Reiter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:36:10 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:57:20 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > 5 years) is the COLD. It's so damn cold here in Illinois that I > > have to take the thing out of the car whenever I leave. And every- > > one else was having problems with heat dissipation :-) > > Cold is a major issue.. > > Even with matrix orbitals Extended temp units are -20 to +70 C Freezing an LCD is not a major problem. They won't operate at -20, but they'll survive it OK. > But even more of a problem is hard drives.. They do not like cold much at > all.. When they are spining they seem to keep warm but I really hesitate > to spin a drive up that has been sitting for a few hours bellow freezing. Use a magneto-optical unit instead. That way you can change carts too. As long as your cold is dry, you're fine. Moisture is actually the big enemy, not temperature extremes. > 1. Leave the drive and LCD spun up. Questions.. Will they maintain a warm > temp?? (I think the drives will but the LCD I am pretty sure will not) The power consumption would kill your battery in a few days. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 12:04:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03818 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:04:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03809 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:04:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.64]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6D7D; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:03:45 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <369A66BA.A0FE6A1D@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:11:34 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Jobs in Seattle Area Cc: FreeBSD-chat , FreeBSD-chat , "Jason C. Wells" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 11-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: > "Jason C. Wells" wrote: >> >> Any of you Seattlites have any positions available for a Tech >> Support/Junior Sysadmin/HTML Coder/Hardware Fixer? >> >> I am a college student looking for a part time job. Any help you folks >> might offer would be great. >> > > Hey Jason, Seattle? isn't that just down the road from a place called > Redmond? IIRC there's a smallish company there called Microsod, > Microsift, Micro-something. Anyway they own Hotmail which runs on > FreeBSD (& Solaris). I guess they might have use of a FreeBSD expert. > ;-) Woooooooooooha! =) Djeez man, the humor levels continue to rise in chat... =))) Is someone logging this for a FreeBSD humor page? --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 12:33:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07344 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07339 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:33:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul3.u.washington.edu (root@saul3.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.1]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id MAA20830; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:33:10 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul3.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id MAA32310; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:33:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Jobs in Seattle Area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >On 11-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: > >> I guess they might have use of a FreeBSD expert. >Djeez man, the humor levels continue to rise in chat... =))) The funny part is me being called "expert". Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 13:54:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16124 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:54:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16035 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:53:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@pechter.ddns.org) Received: from pechter.ddns.org (bg-tc-ppp59.monmouth.com [209.191.60.60]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA17285; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:51:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by pechter.ddns.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA34303; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:50:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <199901122150.QAA34303@pechter.ddns.org> Subject: Re: contributing to the free(dom) community To: kris@airnet.net (Kris Kirby), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:50:47 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <369B8C6E.DBB366ED@airnet.net> from Kris Kirby at "Jan 12, 99 11:54:54 am" Reply-to: pechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 3.0-Stable X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > 2) A large scale project similar to Granite Canyon. The difference > > > would be that rather than just one secondary server, there would be > > > many. It would be possible to spread the load over many servers > > > and networks. Contributors would set up secondary DNS > > dyndns.nws.net Sorry, freebsd.nws.net is taken. ;-) > > > Please note that EU.org is a naming service whareas ML.org was also a > > webhosting one, something EU.org doesn't want (and can't anyway) to > > provide. > > ML.ORG did redirects right? They had a banner for Pair Networks, I > think. /Former resident. > -- > Kris Kirby > UAH Mail UAH CS > Home WWW What did other former dyn.ml.org user's do. I just drifted to ddns.org... so far so good. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com | pechter@pechter.ddns.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 13:59:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16926 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:59:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kate.nws.fsu.edu (kate.nws.fsu.edu [146.201.16.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16919 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:59:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dave@nws.fsu.edu) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by kate.nws.fsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29285; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:59:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:59:04 -0500 (EST) From: David Faciane To: Sean Kelly cc: Drew Baxter , Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <369AB416.642B24BC@plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Sean Kelly wrote: > But in my home, yes. The machine room (well, machine closet is more > accurate), has a rack with my main fileserver in it, which recently got > a sound card installed into it. I've been using "tosha" (in the ports > collection) to "rip" the data off audio CDs and saving them to disk. > I'm using "sox" to convert the raw PCM data into .wav format. And I'm > using the 8hz MP3 encoder (see http://www.8hz.com) to encode them. 8hz > provides a FreeBSD binary of their encoder free of charge. > tosha can do wav format too. Is there some reason you didnt just rip them as wav files to begin with? Output sounds OK to me. David Faciane |web: http://www.nws.fsu.edu/ NOAA National Weather Service |Real-Time Worldwide Marine Weather Reports Tallahassee, FL | http://www.nws.fsu.edu/buoy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 14:07:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17793 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:07:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17787; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:07:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11417; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:07:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd011157; Tue Jan 12 15:06:58 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA05758; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:06:29 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199901122206.PAA05758@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:06:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, mike@smith.net.au, software@kew.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Jan 12, 99 03:15:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 3.0 had at least two show-stopper bugs which would have made it worse > than useless in a development environment, namely the dying daemons > bug and the inetd signal bug. FWIW, 2.2.8 has these same bugs. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 14:31:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20944 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:31:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20933; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:31:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA22798; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:01:10 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA28268; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:00:52 +1030 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:00:52 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: State of the union, 1999. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12 Jan 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Kris Kennaway writes: > > FWIW, I agree with the somewhat low-key release of 3.0 - as it turns > > out there probably weren't any show-stopping problems, but it could > > have turned into a real PR disaster for us > > 3.0 had at least two show-stopper bugs which would have made it worse > than useless in a development environment, namely the dying daemons > bug and the inetd signal bug. Add to that the fact that the Elf Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about those. Here's hoping that 3.1 proves to be a success! Kris ----- (ASP) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) announced today that the release of its productivity suite, Office 2000, will be delayed until the first quarter of 1901. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 14:47:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23083 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pop05.iname.net ([165.251.8.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23064 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:47:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skjellyfetti@iname.com) Received: from iname.com (dialup-tc-2-22.minn.net [208.16.84.170]) by pop05.iname.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA10574; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:46:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369BCFF9.D6821FE0@iname.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:43:06 -0600 From: Mark Kobussen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Later looks revealed www.empeg.com A wonderful site. I used to visit it almost daily - I'm using some of his power-supply designs in my car. > Has anyone seen this? I think it's downright amazing.. Unfortunately > they're on the linux bandwagon.. Not as amazing as you might think. A lot of car manufacturers are adding embedded systems into their 2000 models. Cadillac has integrated Thermal Imaging (Yes, like the FLIR in modern attack aircraft). I'm throwing an embedded PC together for my car. I'm using FreeBSD (obviously) and plan to order an embedded Pentium board from either Advantech, VersaLogic, or Axiom Technologies. Display: No ASCII non-sense here! I'm using a 6" TFT LCD (for only $99!) which fits in my double-height DIN slots in my car (where the stock stereo was). Most of the stuff has to be wired together (including the inverters and power-supply for the LCD). It's got a nice 640x320 display resolution, and it's in full color. Unfortunately, it only takes NTSC signals, so I need to convert the VGA from the PC. I was talking to another FreeBSD fellow about this (Doug Russell), and we're planning on starting up soime pages and possibly even a project to integrate FreeBSD with embedded PC's for automotive applications. What else? Probably a lot of other issues I'm running over. Right now, I'm working on developing a GUI system for the car. I really don't want to use X11, as I want all the space dedicated to MP3's and the software which controls the car (through the built-in diagnostics port). I was thinking SVGALib, but I have exactly NULL experience programming any kind of graphical software, but I figure it's about time to learn. Oh, and input. I was thinking a 6 or 8 key pad on the driver's side door, and possibly something like a Sony Playstation or Gravis-type controller for the passenger (which resides in the glove-box). -- Mark Kobussen IS - Honeywell, SGP Division mkobusse@sgp.honeywell.com skjellyfetti@iname.com ICQ#11860734 /* '94 Mitsubishi Eclipse NT 1.8L */ /* Fender Stratocaster: Tex-Mex, 3-Tone Sunburst */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 15:27:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03720 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:27:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03711 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:27:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4046.ime.net [209.90.195.56]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id SAA19304; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:27:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.19990112182143.00c9e470@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:26:54 -0500 To: Mark Kobussen From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <369BCFF9.D6821FE0@iname.com> References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:43 PM 1/12/99 -0600, Mark Kobussen wrote: >> Later looks revealed www.empeg.com > >A wonderful site. I used to visit it almost daily - I'm using some of >his power-supply designs in my car. > >> Has anyone seen this? I think it's downright amazing.. Unfortunately >> they're on the linux bandwagon.. > >Not as amazing as you might think. A lot of car manufacturers are adding >embedded systems into their 2000 models. Cadillac has integrated Thermal >Imaging (Yes, like the FLIR in modern attack aircraft). > >I'm throwing an embedded PC together for my car. I'm using FreeBSD >(obviously) and plan to order an embedded Pentium board from either >Advantech, VersaLogic, or Axiom Technologies. > >Display: No ASCII non-sense here! I'm using a 6" TFT LCD (for only $99!) >which fits in my double-height DIN slots in my car (where the stock >stereo was). Most of the stuff has to be wired together (including the >inverters and power-supply for the LCD). It's got a nice 640x320 >display resolution, and it's in full color. Unfortunately, it only >takes NTSC signals, so I need to convert the VGA from the PC. > >I was talking to another FreeBSD fellow about this (Doug Russell), and >we're planning on starting up soime pages and possibly even a project to >integrate FreeBSD with embedded PC's for automotive applications. > >What else? Probably a lot of other issues I'm running over. Right now, >I'm working on developing a GUI system for the car. I really don't want >to use X11, as I want all the space dedicated to MP3's and the software >which controls the car (through the built-in diagnostics port). I was >thinking SVGALib, but I have exactly NULL experience programming any >kind of graphical software, but I figure it's about time to learn. > >Oh, and input. I was thinking a 6 or 8 key pad on the driver's side >door, and possibly something like a Sony Playstation or Gravis-type >controller for the passenger (which resides in the glove-box). uhm wow.. A touch screen LCD wouldn't be too bad of an idea. I like the EMpeg unit because it's pretty much self-supporting.. I aim to be bizarre.. Probably why I'm nearly 18 years old and feel the urge to carry a Motorola Advisor Gold and a palmtop. Something that could be interfaced with a car would be cool, definitely. Although a touchscreen LCD in the 'oversize' compartment would probably work.. Namely the place where they put the stock stereo, and the little compartment below it (Although some vehicles lack that). They aren't really cheap though. Surprised you can get a Color LCD for 99 bucks. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 16:48:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17360 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:48:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17346 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:48:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA24620; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:48:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Message-ID: <369BED43.2C9616A@plutotech.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:48:03 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Faciane CC: Drew Baxter , Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > tosha can do wav format too. Is there some reason you didnt just rip them > as wav files to begin with? Output sounds OK to me. Really? I must be using an older version: --- saffron 205 > tosha -V tosha v0.05, 21-May-1997 Copyright (c) 1997 by Oliver Fromme --- What's yours? --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 17:02:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA20940 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:02:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kate.nws.fsu.edu (kate.nws.fsu.edu [146.201.16.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20916 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:02:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dave@nws.fsu.edu) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by kate.nws.fsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA05660; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:01:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:01:31 -0500 (EST) From: David Faciane To: Sean Kelly cc: Drew Baxter , Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <369BED43.2C9616A@plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Sean Kelly wrote: > > tosha can do wav format too. Is there some reason you didnt just rip them > > as wav files to begin with? Output sounds OK to me. > > Really? I must be using an older version: I am using the one out of ports but thought perhaps you were using sox for quality/performance reasons. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 17:03:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21561 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:03:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kate.nws.fsu.edu (kate.nws.fsu.edu [146.201.16.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21550 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:03:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dave@nws.fsu.edu) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by kate.nws.fsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA05715; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:03:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:03:00 -0500 (EST) From: David Faciane To: Sean Kelly cc: Drew Baxter , Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <369BED43.2C9616A@plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > tosha can do wav format too. Is there some reason you didnt just rip them > > as wav files to begin with? Output sounds OK to me. > > Really? I must be using an older version: > > --- > saffron 205 > tosha -V > tosha v0.05, 21-May-1997 > Copyright (c) 1997 by Oliver Fromme > > --- > > What's yours? > % tosha --version' tosha v0.6, 01-Jan-1999 Copyright (c) 1997-1999 by Oliver Fromme To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 17:16:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24618 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:16:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24605 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:16:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25429; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:15:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Message-ID: <369BF3B2.21C4D328@plutotech.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:15:30 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Faciane CC: Drew Baxter , Chris Browning , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I am using the one out of ports but thought perhaps you were using sox for > quality/performance reasons. Nope. (I'm still running FreeBSD-2.2.7, so I'm out of date in other ways.) I'll upgrade to the 0.6 version that you're using, and get rid of the "sox" step in my script. Thanks! --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 18:39:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15295 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:39:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.inreach.com (mail.inreach.com [209.142.0.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15277; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:39:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dburr@pobox.com) Received: from 206-18-113-220.la.inreach.net (dburr@206-18-113-220.la.inreach.net [206.18.113.220]) by mail.inreach.com (8.8.8/8.8.6/(InReach)) with SMTP id SAA02147; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:28:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:37:52 -0800 (PST) From: Donald Burr X-Sender: dburr@control.colossus.dyn.ml.org To: FreeBSD Questions cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Alternative to Monolith Dynamic DNS (DYNDNS) and ATHOME? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For quite a while now, I have been using a wonderful, FREE service called Monolith (http://www.ml.org/). Their service, called Dynamic DNS (DNS) has allowed me to have a hostname for my FreeBSD box, even though I have a "dynamic" dialup connection (i.e. I get a different IP number every time I dial in). This is accomplished by running a little program in your ip-up script that basically sends your current IP address to MOnolith, who automatically updates their DNS tables. Unfortunately, this fine service has bitten the dust, due to one server crash too many. May it rest in peace. I'm now looking for a similar service, since this functionality (having a domain for my machine) is very useful to me (I often log in to my machine from school to transfer files, etc., also I often leave files for friends who can log in anytime using ftp to get them), and I am not willing to pay the significantly-inflated prices that my ISP charges for a static IP with routing, domain name, etc. (nor am I willing to switch ISP's... I've finally found a nice friendly ISP with good connectivity and fast modems). I also used another wonderful Monolith service, called ATHOME. It is a URL forwarding service. My web page is at GeoCities,which as you know has really nasty, hard-to-remember URL's (plus, they don't fit easily on a business card). So, I used Monolith's ATHOME service, to forward the url "http://DonaldBurr.base.org/" to "http://www.geocities.com/Blah/Blah/Blah". Unfortunately, this fine service has also met its maker. Does anyone have any pointers as to currently-existing services that can replace these vital (to me) functions? Obviously (being the starving-student-type) I'd prefer free, or voluntary donation, but I wouldn't mind paying a reasonable fee for this type of service. Any pointers? Many thanks in advance! Donald Burr *NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!* | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ#16997506 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 19:14:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25540 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:14:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newmail.netbistro.com (secure.pgonline.com [204.239.167.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA25512 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:14:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kevin@midnightfire.bc.ca) Received: (qmail 6746 invoked by alias); 13 Jan 1999 03:13:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19990113031356.6745.qmail@newmail.netbistro.com> Received: (qmail 6714 invoked from network); 13 Jan 1999 03:13:54 -0000 Received: from ip167.dialup.pgonline.com (HELO fire) (204.239.167.167) by newmail.netbistro.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 1999 03:13:54 -0000 From: "Kevin Eastman" To: FreeBSD Questions , Donald Burr Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:11:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Alternative to Monolith Dynamic DNS (DYNDNS) and ATHOME? Reply-to: kevin@midnightfire.bc.ca CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 7F00,0000,0000> business card). So, I used Monolith's ATHOME service, to forward the url > "http://DonaldBurr.base.org/" to > "http://www.geocities.com/Blah/Blah/Blah". > Does anyone have any pointers as to currently-existing services that can > replace these vital (to me) functions? I have a suggestion for the URL question. There is a domain that leases subdomains based on your name at a fairly reasonable price. I have a url of http://www.kevin.eastman.net which has a forward on it to my own page. There is also burr.net. The following information comes from www.burr.net. {PRIVATE}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Burr.net"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Burr.net"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Burr.net"}{PRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Burr.net"}Burr.net  0100,0100,0100Times New Roman 8000,0000,0000Arial Burr.net0100,0100,0100 is a shared domainTimes New Roman  {PRIVATE}8000,0000,0000ArialBurr.net Website Directory0100,0100,0100 {HYPERLINK "http://Dave.Burr.net"}0000,0000,FF00Dave.Burr.net0100,0100,0100 {HYPERLINK "http://Kris.Burr.net"}0000,0000,FF00Kris.Burr.net0100,0100,0100 8000,0000,0000Burr.net0100,0100,0100 is shared by MailBank clients for their personal Email and 8000,0000,0000matching0100,0100,0100 Website addresses. 8000,0000,0000Subdomains0100,0100,0100 US$4.95 per year US$19.95 onetime setup & administration charge. Select from {HYPERLINK "http://MailBank.com"}0000,0000,FF0012,000+ Shared Domains0100,0100,0100Times New Roman  Kind Regards Kevin Eastman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 12 23:33:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12125 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:33:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles341.castles.com [208.214.167.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12104 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:33:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00870; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:30:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901130730.XAA00870@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: Mark Kobussen , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:26:54 EST." <4.1.19990112182143.00c9e470@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:30:05 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Something that could be interfaced with a car would be cool, definitely. > Although a touchscreen LCD in the 'oversize' compartment would probably > work.. Namely the place where they put the stock stereo, and the little > compartment below it (Although some vehicles lack that). They aren't > really cheap though. Surprised you can get a Color LCD for 99 bucks. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it only takes NTSC input and requires a (complex, not-supplied) power supply. A *very* poor choice for the job. I'd recommend gutting a Libretto and using that as the core of such a system - it has reasonable audio hardware, plenty of CPU, and a nice screen and power supply already. If someone has an L50 they want to sell cheap... 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 02:13:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00597 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (ip55245.transbay.net [209.133.55.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00573 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:13:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27186; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:12:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990113021226.A27079@mooseriver.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:12:26 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: announce@bafug.org Subject: Correction - Jan. BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) Meeting Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- BAFUG -- ( CORRECTION ) The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, January 14th. This months meeting will be held at The Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: ==> Josef Grosch will give a talk the use of Perl, Mysql, and DBD & DBI perl modules to create the FreeBSD counter page and registration system. This technique has many uses in web site creation such as user registrations, shopping carts, etc. This will definitely be an "under the hood" talk. ==> Due to an unavoidable scheduling conflict, Jordan K. Hubbard will not be giving his "State of the Union" talk. This will be rescheduled at a later date. ==> Nicole Harrington will be giving a brief talk on a class that Paul Albitz and Cricket Li recently taught on DNS. ==> Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on January 23rd at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Oakland Convention Center. This Install-A-Thon will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux Users Group) and CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux). We will also be holding our traditional Install-A-Thon at the Cow Place in Daly City. The date for this show is January 30th. See http://www.bafug.org/Install.html for more details including directions on how to get to the Cow Palace. ==> bafug.org is off and running! Thanks to Jan Koum and Nicole Harrington. The FreeBSD Retail page and Counter page have been moved to this site. Suggestions are welcome. ==> Donations of hardware are needed to build BAFUG a test machine for use at the Install-a-thons. ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By Muni: Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights stop nearby. By BART: Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, on the right (south) side. By Car: From the South Bay and Peninsula Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the East Bay: Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the North Bay: Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.reef.com http://www.bafug.org/Install.html Contact: Please contact either Ian Kallen, Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before January 14th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 02:14:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00965 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:14:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (ip55245.transbay.net [209.133.55.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00940 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27195; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:13:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990113021355.B27079@mooseriver.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 02:13:55 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: announce@bafug.org Subject: BAFUG Meeting headcount Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heads up! I need a head count of people who are planning on attending Thursdays meeting. This is so I'll have some idea how much pizza, soda, and coffee to get. If you could respond by Thursday Noon it would be very helpful. Our normally scheduled hacking will now continue. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 03:06:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18073 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:06:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sam.networx.ie (ts07-013.dublin.indigo.ie [194.125.205.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18039; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:06:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@NetworX.ie) Received: from mike (mike.NetworX.ie [194.9.12.33]) by sam.networx.ie (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07380; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:26:14 GMT X-Organisation: I.T. NetworX Ltd X-Business: Network Applications, Consultancy and Training X-Address: Stonebridge House, Shankill, Co. Dublin, Ireland X-Voice: +353-1-28-27-233 X-Fax: +353-1-28-27-230 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:26:14 PST From: Michael Ryan Subject: Re: Alternative to Monolith Dynamic DNS (DYNDNS) and ATHOME? To: Donald Burr cc: FreeBSD Questions , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:37:52 -0800 (PST) Donald Burr wrote: > I also used another wonderful Monolith service, called ATHOME. It is a > URL forwarding service. I see you're subscribing to pobox.com -- they have a URL forwarding service which they don't charge anything extra for. Go back and look at their web page. Bye, Mike mike@NetworX.ie www.NetworX.ie --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 10:59:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA00496 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:59:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net ([209.64.77.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00400 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:58:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01737; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:52:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369CEB64.4867403@airnet.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:52:20 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pechter@shell.monmouth.com CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: contributing to the free(dom) community References: <199901122150.QAA34303@pechter.ddns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bill Pechter wrote: > > What did other former dyn.ml.org user's do. > I just drifted to ddns.org... so far so good. > > Bill dyndns.nws.net was offered. The Linux folks trash them because "They couldn't run it on Linux." They are using FreeBSD because Linux couldn't handle the demand. Note: ML.ORG used Linux. I moved to dyndns.nws.net because I was already running named on a aliased LAN. My modem port responds to *.freebsd.nws.net (wildcard isn't an option). The DNS (local) resolves all names on the LAN. Funny, the damn thing thinks it's the primary DNS for freebsd.nws.net :-). So you can see where this all stacks up nicely. -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 11:05:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02243 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:05:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from intra.ispchannel.net (intra.ispchannel.net [208.166.60.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02167 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:05:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nicole@mediacity.com) Received: from dogbert.mediacity.com (dogbert.mediacity.com [208.138.36.140]) by intra.ispchannel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2034EF00C; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:30:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990113021226.A27079@mooseriver.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:30:14 -0800 (PST) Organization: The ISP Channel From: Nicole Harrington To: Josef Grosch Subject: RE: {BAFUG-A} Correction - Jan. BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Gr Cc: announce@bafug.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Actually that should read: Nicole Harrington will be giving a brief talk on DNS fresh from her 3 day class taught by Cricket Liu. Nicole On 13-Jan-99 Josef Grosch wrote: > > Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group > -- BAFUG -- > ( CORRECTION ) > > > > The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly > meeting on Thursday, January 14th. This months meeting will be held at The > Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will > start at 7:30 pm. > > > Agenda: > ==> Josef Grosch will give a talk the use of Perl, Mysql, and DBD & > DBI perl modules to create the FreeBSD counter page and > registration system. This technique has many uses in web site > creation such as user registrations, shopping carts, etc. This will > definitely be an "under the hood" talk. > > ==> Due to an unavoidable scheduling conflict, Jordan K. Hubbard will > not be giving his "State of the Union" talk. This will be > rescheduled at a later date. > > ==> Nicole Harrington will be giving a brief talk on a class that > Paul Albitz and Cricket Li recently taught on DNS. > > ==> Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for > the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on January 23rd at the > Robert Austin Computer show at the Oakland Convention Center. This > Install-A-Thon will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux > Users Group) and CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux). We will > also be holding our traditional Install-A-Thon at the Cow Place in > Daly City. The date for this show is January 30th. See > > http://www.bafug.org/Install.html > > for more details including directions on how to get to the Cow > Palace. > > ==> bafug.org is off and running! Thanks to Jan Koum and Nicole > Harrington. The FreeBSD Retail page and Counter page have been > moved to this site. Suggestions are welcome. > > ==> Donations of hardware are needed to build BAFUG a test machine > for use at the Install-a-thons. > > ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. > > ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics > > > Location: > This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. > The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison > Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. > > > Time: > The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The > meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so > to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. > > > Directions: > > By Muni: > Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights > stop nearby. > > By BART: > Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning > left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, > on the right (south) side. > > By Car: > From the South Bay and Peninsula > Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn > left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed > eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa > dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th > Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. > > From the East Bay: > Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th > street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine > blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes > under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed > about one full block, and park where you can. > > From the North Bay: > Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into > Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van > Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. > > > WWW info: > More info can be found at the following URLs > > http://www.reef.com > http://www.bafug.org/Install.html > > > Contact: > Please contact either Ian Kallen, Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on > or before January 14th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, > soda, and coffee we will need. > > Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com > Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com > Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com > > > > > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > >## This is the BAFUG Announce List ## > ** To subscribe or unsubscribe send comands to majordomo@bafug.org ** |\ __ /| (`\ | o_o |__ ) ) // \\ Nicole Harrington | SR Systems Administrator -------------------(((---(((----------------------- nicole@mediacity.com - nicole@ispchannel.com www.mediacity.com - www.ispchannel.com Phone: 650-237-1454 - Pager: 415-301-2482 Powered By Coca-Cola and FreeBSD Why do doctors call what they do practice? Microsoft: What bug would you like today? ---------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 11:07:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02491 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:07:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net ([209.64.77.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02465 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:06:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01782; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:05:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369CEE84.14A5BCE4@airnet.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:05:40 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Static natd References: <82953.916179256@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > either - we've already had a rocky december in terms of interpersonal > relations and this kinda thing doesn't help return us to sanity at > all. Thanks. We were sane? :-) -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 11:13:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04426 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net ([209.64.77.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04332 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01797; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:12:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369CF004.6642F89F@airnet.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:12:04 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Kobussen CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> <369BCFF9.D6821FE0@iname.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Kobussen wrote: > Not as amazing as you might think. A lot of car manufacturers are adding > embedded systems into their 2000 models. Cadillac has integrated Thermal > Imaging (Yes, like the FLIR in modern attack aircraft). Obviously this has military implications, but they have probably already been exploited. > Display: No ASCII non-sense here! I'm using a 6" TFT LCD (for only $99!) > which fits in my double-height DIN slots in my car (where the stock > stereo was). Most of the stuff has to be wired together (including the > inverters and power-supply for the LCD). It's got a nice 640x320 > display resolution, and it's in full color. Unfortunately, it only > takes NTSC signals, so I need to convert the VGA from the PC. CGA is NTSC. VGA => NTSC tends to loose quite a bit. > Oh, and input. I was thinking a 6 or 8 key pad on the driver's side > door, and possibly something like a Sony Playstation or Gravis-type > controller for the passenger (which resides in the glove-box). Custom wand: /\ < > < > \/ Volume, Disc, Track. -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 11:13:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04439 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail2.rochester.rr.com (mail2-1.twcny.rr.com [24.92.226.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04333; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leisner@rochester.rr.com) Received: from rochester.rr.com ([24.93.25.38]) by mail2.rochester.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-53939U80000L80000S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:24:43 -0500 Received: from dw.home (leisner@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rochester.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02163; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:23:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199901131723.MAA02163@rochester.rr.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 Reply-to: leisner@rochester.rr.com To: Donald Burr cc: FreeBSD Questions , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Alternative to Monolith Dynamic DNS (DYNDNS) and ATHOME? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:37:52 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:23:30 -0500 From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Look at http://www.nws.net Marty Leisner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 11:28:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26642 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:58:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26291; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:56:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (bangor-1.ime.net [209.90.195.58]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29940; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:55:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990113074750.03db2690@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:52:12 -0500 To: Michael Ryan , Donald Burr From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Alternative to Monolith Dynamic DNS (DYNDNS) and ATHOME? Cc: FreeBSD Questions , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:26 AM 1/13/99 -0800, Michael Ryan wrote: >On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:37:52 -0800 (PST) Donald Burr wrote: > >> I also used another wonderful Monolith service, called ATHOME. It is a >> URL forwarding service. > >I see you're subscribing to pobox.com -- they have a URL forwarding >service which they don't charge anything extra for. Go back and >look at their web page. [my brain is mush at this time of the morning, so I'll fill in the other 'crack' in the loss of ML.ORG] www.dynip.com is a cost solution for dynamic IPs.. As it goes the service was decent with them, even though I really didn't use it for anything. It's 24.95 a year according to their web page, They even have a beta client for Linux/FreeBSD users (why do they combine like that? :-)). --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 11:33:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10515 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:33:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA10450 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:33:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA32617 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:27:18 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA00761; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:27:59 +0100 (CET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199901131827.TAA00761@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? In-Reply-To: <369C93DA.94A06B6@tdx.co.uk> from Karl Pielorz at "Jan 13, 99 12:38:50 pm" To: kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:27:59 +0100 (CET) Cc: daeron@Wit401305.student.utwente.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Karl Pielorz wrote... > > > Pascal Hofstee wrote: > > > > A friend of mine just pointed me towards the following URL ... > > > > http://www.scotgold.com/Linux.htm > > > > I think I would Rock to also have those badges with Chuck on them ;-)) > > > > I would definately Love to have one of those (with Chuck then of course) > > on my computer case .... > > > > Let's generate another /. effect on it ;-)) > > Ha! - Small world... I know the guy who does these! ;-) - I'll see if I can > talk him into 'Chuck'dom... ;-) They already exist. Jordan showed me one sitting on his Libretto in oct 1998. This is hardly suitable for -current, followups to -chat. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 11:51:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26756 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26445 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:57:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (bangor-1.ime.net [209.90.195.58]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA29926; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:55:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990113074227.03db42f0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:47:31 -0500 To: Mike Smith From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Cc: Mark Kobussen , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901130730.XAA00870@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:30 PM 1/12/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> Something that could be interfaced with a car would be cool, definitely. >> Although a touchscreen LCD in the 'oversize' compartment would probably >> work.. Namely the place where they put the stock stereo, and the little >> compartment below it (Although some vehicles lack that). They aren't >> really cheap though. Surprised you can get a Color LCD for 99 bucks. > >If it's the one I'm thinking of, it only takes NTSC input and requires >a (complex, not-supplied) power supply. > >A *very* poor choice for the job. I'd recommend gutting a Libretto and >using that as the core of such a system - it has reasonable audio >hardware, plenty of CPU, and a nice screen and power supply already. > >If someone has an L50 they want to sell cheap... 8) As it goes I can get L50's (The P75's right?) for about 700 bucks, plus ship (probably 15 bucks) I could get one on my doorstep by 10am the next morning.. As it goes, I have a pretty bizarre idea of putting a GPS unit in with a car laptop tray from Delorme Mapping (www.delorme.com) (hey they're a local company here in Hickville :)), and a copy of Street Atlas. I do NOT particularly like their GPS unit though, and would insist on a Garmin 12XL or something similar. As it goes, you can put touchscreen capabilities to virtually anything. So putting a touchscreen assembly over the Libretto's screen would work rather well I'd imagine. However once I get my auto, I don't think I'm gonna want to go too far into hacking the hell out of it... yet. I've found most of the LCD's on the market, including from such places as Jameco (http://www.jameco.com) and the more common 1500-page free catalog (anything under the sun) catalog of Newark (http://www.newark.com) require a compatible LCD driver board and some other stuff. Abusing a cheap laptop (go on Ebay, you can probably find a POS 486sx33 or something on there for cheap) would be a better way to go. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 12:04:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17979 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:04:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17967 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4011.ime.net [209.90.195.21]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA04640; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:03:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990113150030.00b70320@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:00:43 -0500 To: Kris Kirby , "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Static natd Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <369CEE84.14A5BCE4@airnet.net> References: <82953.916179256@zippy.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:05 PM 1/13/99 -0600, Kris Kirby wrote: >Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> either - we've already had a rocky december in terms of interpersonal >> relations and this kinda thing doesn't help return us to sanity at >> all. Thanks. > >We were sane? :-) damnit, I knew I forgot to check off something on the subscribe form for Majordomo... --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 12:18:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18030 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:04:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17990 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:04:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4011.ime.net [209.90.195.21]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA29423; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:46:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990113144340.00aa4ca0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:44:00 -0500 To: Wilko Bulte , kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz) From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? Cc: daeron@Wit401305.student.utwente.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901131827.TAA00761@yedi.iaf.nl> References: <369C93DA.94A06B6@tdx.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:27 PM 1/13/99 +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote: >As Karl Pielorz wrote... >> >> >> Pascal Hofstee wrote: >> > >> > A friend of mine just pointed me towards the following URL ... >> > >> > http://www.scotgold.com/Linux.htm >> > >> > I think I would Rock to also have those badges with Chuck on them ;-)) >> > >> > I would definately Love to have one of those (with Chuck then of course) >> > on my computer case .... >> > >> > Let's generate another /. effect on it ;-)) >> >> Ha! - Small world... I know the guy who does these! ;-) - I'll see if I can >> talk him into 'Chuck'dom... ;-) > >They already exist. Jordan showed me one sitting on his Libretto in oct >1998. > >This is hardly suitable for -current, followups to -chat. > >Wilko www.freebsdmall.com/promotional folks.. it's old news.. they're a buck a piece. :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 12:57:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28971 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28965 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA03431; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990113135249.060e0f10@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:53:19 -0700 To: Drew Baxter , Wilko Bulte , kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? Cc: daeron@Wit401305.student.utwente.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113144340.00aa4ca0@genesis.ispace.com> References: <199901131827.TAA00761@yedi.iaf.nl> <369C93DA.94A06B6@tdx.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:44 PM 1/13/99 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: >>They already exist. Jordan showed me one sitting on his Libretto in oct >>1998. I want one that says, "Daemon inside." --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 16:14:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26396 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stade.demon.co.uk (stade.demon.co.uk [158.152.29.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26391 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:14:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aw1@stade.co.uk) Received: (from aw1@localhost) by stade.demon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA29927 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:26:03 GMT (envelope-from aw1) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:26:03 +0000 From: Adrian Wontroba To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Jobs in Seattle Area Message-ID: <19990113062602.A25352@titus.stade.co.uk> Reply-To: aw1@stade.co.uk References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 12:32:38PM -0800 Organization: Stade Computers Ltd, UK X-Phone: +(44) 121 681 6677 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 12:32:38PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > The funny part is me being called "expert". You can always defuse it with Blaster Bates'[1] definition - "'ex' is a has been, and a 'spurt' is s drip under pressure" (8) [1] An english demolition expert who later switched to telling extremely funny and crude tales based on his experiences. I had tapes of many of his records but ... -- Adrian Wontroba, Stade Computers Limited. phone: (+44) 121 681 6677 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 19:02:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05435 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:02:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pop02.globecomm.net (pop02.globecomm.net [206.253.129.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05429 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:02:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skjellyfetti@iname.com) Received: from iname.com (dialup-tc-3-31.minn.net [208.16.84.227]) by pop02.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id WAA17682; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:00:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369D5CC9.49884181@iname.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:56:10 -0600 From: Mark Kobussen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Baxter CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990112182143.00c9e470@genesis.ispace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > A touch screen LCD wouldn't be too bad of an idea. I like the EMpeg unit > because it's pretty much self-supporting.. I aim to be bizarre.. Probably > why I'm nearly 18 years old and feel the urge to carry a Motorola Advisor > Gold and a palmtop. Tried the whole touch-screen idea. I've talked to several different companies and not one will even think about manufacturing a custom 6" touch-kit for me, and the 10" ones they have are much too big to fit in my double DIN space. > Something that could be interfaced with a car would be cool, definitely. > Although a touchscreen LCD in the 'oversize' compartment would probably > work.. Namely the place where they put the stock stereo, and the little > compartment below it (Although some vehicles lack that). They aren't > really cheap though. Surprised you can get a Color LCD for 99 bucks. Yeah, my car has a built-in diagnostics port and ECU (embedded chip for engine\turbo control), so I'm going to have an input from that into the embedded CPU. Was thinking about a Heads Up Display (Honeywell makes some), but that would drive me to rip my car apart, and it'd be a pain in the ass anyway. =) -- Mark Kobussen IS - Honeywell, SGP Division mkobusse@sgp.honeywell.com skjellyfetti@iname.com ICQ#11860734 /* '94 Mitsubishi Eclipse NT 1.8L */ /* Fender Stratocaster: Tex-Mex, 3-Tone Sunburst */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 19:10:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06537 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:10:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06523 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:10:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skjellyfetti@iname.com) Received: from iname.com (dialup-tc-3-31.minn.net [208.16.84.227]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id WAA28521; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:08:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369D5ED2.3F7ACDC3@iname.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:04:50 -0600 From: Mark Kobussen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: Drew Baxter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: <199901130730.XAA00870@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > If it's the one I'm thinking of, it only takes NTSC input and requires > a (complex, not-supplied) power supply. Complex, yes, but I can wire it DIRECTLY from my car battery, and include microcontrollers which will automatically power it down and other energy saving non-sense. I'd rather have it wired cleanly from the battery than have 5 different off-the-shelf convertors strung together. Not only do I have the services of an electrical engineer (he lives with me), but I also have free parts galore from DigiKey and Maxim, so I can tailor all the hardware to my specifications. > A *very* poor choice for the job. I'd recommend gutting a Libretto and > using that as the core of such a system - it has reasonable audio > hardware, plenty of CPU, and a nice screen and power supply already. Ewww... Laptop hardware. The SBC (Single-Board Computers) I'm looking into have high-performance industrial hardware (with industry standardization), all in the footprint of a 5.25" disk drive. Not only that, but they have embedded SoundBlaster AWE hardware, a must for any audio application. Besides, I looked at your Libretto - only the L100's and higher have enough computing power to do linear decoding and playback of MP3 files - my car will be doing a lot more processing than just MP3 decoding, I'll be doing engine maintenance, plus a GUI interface, and GPS. This isn't just an audio system, this is everything. Main reason: It's a hobby, I like to wire stuff together. I get a kick out of building hardware tailored to MY needs, which I can quickly write software for. Libretto is a *very* poor choice for me, besides the fact that all of the parts I'm using are made by OEM's, and are built robust for harsh-environments, which my car definitely is (I live in Minnesota, it has been below zero for 2 weeks straight). > If someone has an L50 they want to sell cheap... 8) Oh, and my embedded PC (with CPU included) costs around $800, plus my $99 LCD (got it in the mail today, BTW), and other assorted parts, costs quite a bit less than the L100 which has half the capabilities, and a quarter of the convenience. -- Mark Kobussen IS - Honeywell, SGP Division mkobusse@sgp.honeywell.com skjellyfetti@iname.com ICQ#11860734 /* '94 Mitsubishi Eclipse NT 1.8L */ /* Fender Stratocaster: Tex-Mex, 3-Tone Sunburst */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 20:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14160 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:34:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14150 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:34:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA15326; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:32:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:32:14 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Mark Kobussen cc: Mike Smith , Drew Baxter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-Reply-To: <369D5ED2.3F7ACDC3@iname.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just out of curiousity, where are you getting the LCD panel? It seems like that alone for $99 could spur some interesting projects if it takes straight composite NTSC video... Charles --- Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com --- On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Mark Kobussen wrote: > > If it's the one I'm thinking of, it only takes NTSC input and requires > > > a (complex, not-supplied) power supply. > > Complex, yes, but I can wire it DIRECTLY from my car battery, and > include microcontrollers which will automatically power it down and > other energy saving non-sense. I'd rather have it wired cleanly from > the battery than have 5 different off-the-shelf convertors strung > together. Not only do I have the services of an electrical engineer (he > lives with me), but I also have free parts galore from DigiKey and > Maxim, so I can tailor all the hardware to my specifications. > > > A *very* poor choice for the job. I'd recommend gutting a Libretto > and > > using that as the core of such a system - it has reasonable audio > > hardware, plenty of CPU, and a nice screen and power supply already. > > Ewww... Laptop hardware. The SBC (Single-Board Computers) I'm looking > into have high-performance industrial hardware (with industry > standardization), all in the footprint of a 5.25" disk drive. Not only > that, but they have embedded SoundBlaster AWE hardware, a must for any > audio application. Besides, I looked at your Libretto - only the L100's > and higher have enough computing power to do linear decoding and > playback of MP3 files - my car will be doing a lot more processing than > just MP3 decoding, I'll be doing engine maintenance, plus a GUI > interface, and GPS. This isn't just an audio system, this is > everything. > > Main reason: It's a hobby, I like to wire stuff together. I get a kick > out of building hardware tailored to MY needs, which I can quickly write > software for. Libretto is a *very* poor choice for me, besides the fact > that all of the parts I'm using are made by OEM's, and are built robust > for harsh-environments, which my car definitely is (I live in Minnesota, > it has been below zero for 2 weeks straight). > > > If someone has an L50 they want to sell cheap... 8) > > Oh, and my embedded PC (with CPU included) costs around $800, plus my > $99 LCD (got it in the mail today, BTW), and other assorted parts, costs > quite a bit less than the L100 which has half the capabilities, and a > quarter of the convenience. > > -- > Mark Kobussen > IS - Honeywell, SGP Division > mkobusse@sgp.honeywell.com > skjellyfetti@iname.com > ICQ#11860734 > > /* '94 Mitsubishi Eclipse NT 1.8L */ > /* Fender Stratocaster: Tex-Mex, 3-Tone Sunburst */ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 21:25:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18547 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18542 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:25:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4040.ime.net [209.90.195.50]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA02062; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:24:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990114001935.00cff3e0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:20:50 -0500 To: Mark Kobussen From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <369D5CC9.49884181@iname.com> References: <4.1.19990111182426.00a9ac60@genesis.ispace.com> <4.1.19990112182143.00c9e470@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:56 PM 1/13/99 -0600, Mark Kobussen wrote: >Tried the whole touch-screen idea. I've talked to several different >companies and not one will even think about manufacturing a custom 6" >touch-kit for me, and the 10" ones they have are much too big to fit in >my double DIN space. Although a mount like they use for a fishfinder would work :-) >Yeah, my car has a built-in diagnostics port and ECU (embedded chip for >engine\turbo control), so I'm going to have an input from that into the >embedded CPU. Was thinking about a Heads Up Display (Honeywell makes >some), but that would drive me to rip my car apart, and it'd be a pain >in the ass anyway. =) Hmmm.. The diagnostic port just has a bunch of sensors? or are you going to have to wire some chips in to pull the data off? --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 13 22:15:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA24748 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:15:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24740 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:15:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.84]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA36AC; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:14:37 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113135249.060e0f10@mail.lariat.org> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:22:20 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, daeron@Wit401305.student.utwente.nl, (Karl Pielorz) , Wilko Bulte , Drew Baxter Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 13-Jan-99 Brett Glass wrote: > At 02:44 PM 1/13/99 -0500, Drew Baxter wrote: > >>>They already exist. Jordan showed me one sitting on his Libretto in oct >>>1998. > > I want one that says, "Daemon inside." Hmmm, where were you when we were discussing the texts a few weeks ago? This one is cool ;) Not to mention in accordance with the FAQ topics such as: who's scratching my memory banks? =))) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 00:07:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA05483 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:07:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05477 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:07:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21422 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:04:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199901140804.AAA21422@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: linux/bsd kernel hacker ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:04:33 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there a mailing list where a contract or job recruiter can post to? Tnks! Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 00:24:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA07033 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:24:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (c2-18-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA07028 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:24:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA03573; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:20:59 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199901140820.KAA03573@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: linux/bsd kernel hacker ... In-Reply-To: <199901140804.AAA21422@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jan 14, 99 00:04:33 am" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:20:56 +0200 (SAT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Amancio Hasty wrote: > Is there a mailing list where a contract or job recruiter can post to? > > Tnks! > Amancio There is a freebsd-jobs ("jobs offered and sought") list, though I don't know how busy it is, or how many people are subscribed. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 00:27:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA07411 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:27:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (sj-dsl-9-129-138.dspeed.net [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA07406 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:27:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22082; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:23:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199901140823.AAA22082@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Robert Nordier cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linux/bsd kernel hacker ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Jan 1999 10:20:56 +0200." <199901140820.KAA03573@ceia.nordier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:23:56 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sure hope a nice web page designer could step in and create a web page for job related stuff . I think it would start making freebsd more attractive 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 01:08:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11260 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:08:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11255 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:08:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA09989; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:06:45 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990114015907.046871d0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:02:48 -0700 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, daeron@Wit401305.student.utwente.nl, (Karl Pielorz) , Wilko Bulte , Drew Baxter In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990113135249.060e0f10@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:22 AM 1/14/99 +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> I want one that says, "Daemon inside." > >Hmmm, where were you when we were discussing the texts a few weeks ago? >This one is cool ;) Falling behind on my e-mail, of course. ;-) Lately, I've been slow to respond because I'm building up a couple of servers and have run into some snags. Seems that when I ordered a Pentium II for one of them, I got a "scorpion" CPU instead of the real McCoy. This threw the whole schedule off. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 05:48:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA07946 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:48:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.brann.org (doorman.brann.org [166.84.191.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA07928 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:48:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@freebie.brann.org) Received: (from john@localhost) by freebie.brann.org (8.9.1/8.8.7) id IAA22586; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:47:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from john) Message-ID: <19990114084708.A22574@brann.org> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:47:08 -0500 From: John Brann To: aw1@stade.co.uk, FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: Jobs in Seattle Area References: <19990113062602.A25352@titus.stade.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990113062602.A25352@titus.stade.co.uk>; from Adrian Wontroba on Wed, Jan 13, 1999 at 06:26:03AM +0000 Organization: Not while I'm at home Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jan 13, 1999 at 06:26:03AM +0000, Adrian Wontroba wrote: > On Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 12:32:38PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > The funny part is me being called "expert". > > You can always defuse it with Blaster Bates'[1] definition - "'ex' is a > has been, and a 'spurt' is s drip under pressure" (8) The version I heard (not from Blaster Bates) broke expert down into: 'x' - the algebraic unknown and spurt. Making the full definition: "An unknown drip under pressure" > > [1] An english demolition expert who later switched to telling extremely > funny and crude tales based on his experiences. I had tapes of many of > his records but ... > > -- > Adrian Wontroba, Stade Computers Limited. phone: (+44) 121 681 6677 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message John -- Unreal City, Under the brown fog of a winter dawn, finger john@doorman.brann.org for pgp public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 05:57:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA08826 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:57:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA08821 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:57:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (paulg@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11181; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:56:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:56:28 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Griffith To: Amancio Hasty cc: Robert Nordier , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linux/bsd kernel hacker ... In-Reply-To: <199901140823.AAA22082@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Sure hope a nice web page designer could step in and create a web page > for job related stuff . I think it would start making freebsd more > attractive 8) > > Cheers, > Amancio > http://www.freebsdrocks.com - has a jobs page. Paul Griffith <> paulg@interlog.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 06:57:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA14287 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:57:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DegNet.de (degnet.de [194.95.214.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA14267; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:56:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malte.lance@gmx.net) Received: from neuron.webmore.prv (GateWay [192.168.168.1]) by DegNet.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id PAA24688; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:18 +0100 Received: from neuron.webmore.prv (neuron.webmore.prv "Malte Lance") by neuron.webmore.prv (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01882; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:06 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199901141455.PAA01882@neuron.webmore.prv> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:04 +0100 (CET) From: Malte Lance Reply-To: malte.lance@gmx.net Subject: Re: Alternative to Monolith Dynamic DNS (DYNDNS) and ATHOME? To: dburr@pobox.com cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 12 Jan, Donald Burr wrote: > For quite a while now, I have been using a wonderful, FREE service called > Monolith (http://www.ml.org/). Their service, called Dynamic DNS (DNS) > has allowed me to have a hostname for my FreeBSD box, even though I have a > "dynamic" dialup connection (i.e. I get a different IP number every time I > dial in). This is accomplished by running a little program in your ip-up > script that basically sends your current IP address to MOnolith, who > automatically updates their DNS tables. > > Unfortunately, this fine service has bitten the dust, due to one server > crash too many. May it rest in peace. > > I'm now looking for a similar service, since this functionality (having a > domain for my machine) is very useful to me (I often log in to my machine > from school to transfer files, etc., also I often leave files for friends > who can log in anytime using ftp to get them), and I am not willing to pay > the significantly-inflated prices that my ISP charges for a static IP with > routing, domain name, etc. (nor am I willing to switch ISP's... I've > finally found a nice friendly ISP with good connectivity and fast modems). > > I also used another wonderful Monolith service, called ATHOME. It is a > URL forwarding service. My web page is at GeoCities,which as you know > has really nasty, hard-to-remember URL's (plus, they don't fit easily on a > business card). So, I used Monolith's ATHOME service, to forward the url > "http://DonaldBurr.base.org/" to > "http://www.geocities.com/Blah/Blah/Blah". > > Unfortunately, this fine service has also met its maker. > > Does anyone have any pointers as to currently-existing services that can > replace these vital (to me) functions? > > Obviously (being the starving-student-type) I'd prefer free, or voluntary > donation, but I wouldn't mind paying a reasonable fee for this type of > service. > > Any pointers? Many thanks in advance! Start with http://dyndns.nws.net then there is also: http://www.ddns.org Malte. > > Donald Burr *NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!* | PGP: Your > WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ#16997506 | right to > Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. > Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. -- Malte Lance. --- composed with TkRat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 07:46:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20499 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA20494 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:46:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 17715 invoked from network); 14 Jan 1999 15:45:25 -0000 Received: from adam.enteract.com (jrs@206.54.252.1) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 1999 15:45:26 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:45:18 -0600 (CST) From: John Sconiers To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ho to setup a new Freebsd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I remember there was a webpage that was how to setup a new freebsd box. on this page it told you how to change the default lines on your console from 25 to 50 (?). Does anyone know where that page is or how to change it. JOHN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 08:28:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25084 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:28:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (hsv1-13.airnet.net [207.242.81.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25003 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:27:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01335; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:23:31 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369E1A02.4AEEBD02@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:23:30 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason J. Horton" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason J. Horton wrote: > > http://www.freebsdmall.com/promotional/ > sold here for US$1.00, not bad > > Promotional doesn't seem like that noticable a section. > Any ideas on how to bring more attention to it? > > -J Can we get a bulk discount? I've got at least four machines and plan for more. Maybe setup a deal with a tee-shirt and some stickers. -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 08:52:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28020 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:52:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27986 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:52:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA17354 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:50:50 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:50:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? In-Reply-To: <369E1A02.4AEEBD02@airnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > Can we get a bulk discount? I've got at least four machines and plan for > more. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You're kidding, right? Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 09:20:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02813 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:20:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (hsv1-13.airnet.net [207.242.81.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02530 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:19:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01533; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:13:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369E25D7.506FAF51@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:13:59 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jasper O'Malley" CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jasper O'Malley wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > > Can we get a bulk discount? I've got at least four machines and plan for > > more. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > You're kidding, right? > > Cheers, > Mick Hey, I was planning on about thirty of those case plates. I know a few machines missing theirs... Besides, who can't use a few? -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 10:29:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12571 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:29:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bright.fx.genx.net (bright.fx.genx.net [206.64.4.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12520 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:29:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by bright.fx.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA33911; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:33:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: bright.fx.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:33:31 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@bright.fx.genx.net To: Jim Bryant cc: Kazutaka YOKOTA , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV In-Reply-To: <199901141812.MAA66211@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Jim Bryant wrote: > In reply: > > >> This sort of forwarding facility should be an option; do not make it > > >> default! FreeBSD is used not only in US, but also all over the world, > > >> you know. I don't think FTC would in any way like to deal with spams > > >> outside of US. > > >> > > >> Kazu > > [...] > > >i understand your point of view, even though I disagree with it to an > > >extent. > > > > Well, you seem to believe FreeBSD systems exist only in US.... > > actually i don't... and i agree that it should be an option. > something that is already set up, and can be turned on with either a > switch or by uncommenting something. (let's move this to -chat?) Since spam is mass mailing automating replies will swamp the poor folks at FTC. If anything, a spam condensing local server for a region that co-odinated with a centralized server to reduce dup'ing spam complaints (and perhaps keep a count would be a good thing) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 10:46:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15639 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:46:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15630 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:46:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4035.ime.net [209.90.195.45]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA21570; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:44:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990114134146.00b1f870@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:42:27 -0500 To: Kris Kirby , "Jasper O'Malley" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Chuck Badges for computer cases ? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <369E25D7.506FAF51@airnet.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:13 AM 1/14/99 -0600, Kris Kirby wrote: >Jasper O'Malley wrote: >> >> On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: >> >> > Can we get a bulk discount? I've got at least four machines and plan for >> > more. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> You're kidding, right? >> >> Cheers, >> Mick > >Hey, I was planning on about thirty of those case plates. I know a few >machines missing theirs... Besides, who can't use a few? I'd imagine they're a costly proposition for WC CDROM to get ahold of though.. Friend of mine is an OEMer, Think he said they weren't very cheap to get done.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 10:55:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16920 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:55:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA16895; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:55:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:55:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141855.KAA16895@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199901140804.AAA21422@rah.star-gate.com> (message from Amancio Hasty on Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:04:33 -0800) Subject: Re: linux/bsd kernel hacker ... References: <199901140804.AAA21422@rah.star-gate.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org freebsd-jobs@freebsd.org > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:04:33 -0800 > From: Amancio Hasty > > > Is there a mailing list where a contract or job recruiter can post to? > > Tnks! > Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 12:57:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06893 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:57:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p11.tfs.net [139.146.210.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06884; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) id OAA66441; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:56:06 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199901142056.OAA66441@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV In-Reply-To: from Alfred Perlstein at "Jan 14, 99 01:33:31 pm" To: bright@hotjobs.com (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:55:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #46: Sun Dec 6 03:10:25 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply: > On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Jim Bryant wrote: > > > In reply: > > > >> This sort of forwarding facility should be an option; do not make it > > > >> default! FreeBSD is used not only in US, but also all over the world, > > > >> you know. I don't think FTC would in any way like to deal with spams > > > >> outside of US. > > > >> > > > >> Kazu > > > [...] > > > >i understand your point of view, even though I disagree with it to an > > > >extent. > > > > > > Well, you seem to believe FreeBSD systems exist only in US.... > > > > actually i don't... and i agree that it should be an option. > > something that is already set up, and can be turned on with either a > > switch or by uncommenting something. > > (let's move this to -chat?) > > Since spam is mass mailing automating replies will swamp the poor folks at > FTC. > > If anything, a spam condensing local server for a region that co-odinated > with a centralized server to reduce dup'ing spam complaints (and perhaps > keep a count would be a good thing) you mean reduce the number of submissions to give a false impression that the problem isn't as bad as it really is. stop defending spammers. the more submissions, the faster something gets done. anything else would give a false impression that the problem is smaller than it really is, and thus more of the same ineffective regulation that we already have. let the reduction and counting be done by the FTC which more than probably already has such measures in place locally. let them standardize what they do with it, anything else is obstruction of justice. i'm sorry if i'm reading you wrong, but i understand how the government operates. also, anyone who doesn't take a hard-line stand on this topic can't be trusted, and is part of the problem. to not deal with spammers ruthlessly is to pander to spammers. if a million people forward a million copies of the exact same spam, but addressed to each individual that forwards it will get something done. one copy and a note saying that it went to a million people means nothing. a thousand individual spams a day forwarded by the recipients in a billon seperate submissions a day will have a new consumer-friendly/isp-friendly law passed in short order with means of enforcement. a thousand messages with a note saing that each went to a million people means nothing, and thus nothing gets done. let the FTC do the reduction. they did not ask for reduced data. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 13:04:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07925 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p11.tfs.net [139.146.210.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07920 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:04:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) id PAA66462; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:03:20 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199901142103.PAA66462@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV In-Reply-To: from Robert Watson at "Jan 14, 99 01:59:21 pm" To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:03:16 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #46: Sun Dec 6 03:10:25 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply: > On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > > > This sort of forwarding facility should be an option; do not make it > > default! FreeBSD is used not only in US, but also all over the world, > > you know. I don't think FTC would in any way like to deal with spams > > outside of US. > > Besides which, if every freebsd machine had it turned on by default, the > FTC would receive tens of thousands of copies of each spam (and all via > automated delivery) so we would be in effect spamming them. Let's not > discourage them from having such an address because it gets mailbombed by > freebsd hosts :). please read my response to Alfred Perlstein. i agreed with kazu that it should be an option. an option that is easily turned on. the ftc did not ask for reduced data, and the goal here is to get effective laws. the only way to get effective laws is to do what they ask. if they walk into congress with a trillion forwarded messages from a million pissed off people, how fast do you think something will get done? i still personally think that nothing will get done until the recall votes start happening on congress, they already proved their lack of integrity with the current spam law. anyone who still believes in self-regulation is part of the problem. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 14:29:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19705 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:29:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19698 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:29:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03800; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:26:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:26:17 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Jim Bryant cc: Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV In-Reply-To: <199901142056.OAA66441@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Jim Bryant wrote: > > Since spam is mass mailing automating replies will swamp the poor folks at > > FTC. > > > > If anything, a spam condensing local server for a region that co-odinated > > with a centralized server to reduce dup'ing spam complaints (and perhaps > > keep a count would be a good thing) > > you mean reduce the number of submissions to give a false impression > that the problem isn't as bad as it really is. stop defending > spammers. He didn't come close to doing that. > the more submissions, the faster something gets done. anything else > would give a false impression that the problem is smaller than it > really is, and thus more of the same ineffective regulation that we > already have. "the more submissions, the faster something gets done". That's pretty obviously wrong. The FTC isn't god, and will only work on a limited number of things at a time. They have a budget, you know, and they can't just whistle up more money. If you turn their mailbox into a trashbox, they'll stop reading it. You do realize they have humans working there, right? > let the reduction and counting be done by the FTC Why? If you're angry at the FTC not being more active (which I would certainly support) then yell at the Republican party, which would like to see it totally removed. The FTC is trying to do what they can, and they don't need folks making a hard job impossible. which more than > probably already has such measures in place locally. let them > standardize what they do with it, anything else is obstruction of > justice. > > i'm sorry if i'm reading you wrong, but i understand how the > government operates. also, anyone who doesn't take a hard-line stand > on this topic can't be trusted, and is part of the problem. to not > deal with spammers ruthlessly is to pander to spammers. The FTC hasn't got the resources to go after every spammer. Again, if you want that changed, go after the folks that write their budget. Write your congressman, he's the problem. > if a million people forward a million copies of the exact same spam, > but addressed to each individual that forwards it will get something > done. Why? If I worked for the FTC, and I saw a million mail messages (and I was a manager with a *real* budget) I would simply tell my administrator to put all mail to that address in the circular file. That's what you would do (prove me wrong here, tell me what you would do. Remember I said a manager with a *real* budget). They haven't the people or the budget to do what you want, and it's a whole lot better to have *some* fixes than just to yell louder, and drown out any real possibility of help. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 19:01:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01742 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:01:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pop02.globecomm.net (pop02.globecomm.net [206.253.129.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA01735 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:01:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from skjellyfetti@iname.com) Received: from iname.com (dialup-tc-1-23.minn.net [208.16.84.123]) by pop02.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id WAA23771; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:00:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369EAE37.418261B9@iname.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:55:51 -0600 From: Mark Kobussen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: spork CC: Mike Smith , Drew Baxter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Just out of curiousity, where are you getting the LCD panel? It seems > like that alone for $99 could spur some interesting projects if it takes > straight composite NTSC video... Check out www.eio.com - everything you need to know to purchase it and get it up and running as soon as possible. -- Mark Kobussen IS - Honeywell, SGP Division mkobusse@sgp.honeywell.com skjellyfetti@iname.com ICQ#11860734 /* '94 Mitsubishi Eclipse NT 1.8L */ /* Fender Stratocaster: Tex-Mex, 3-Tone Sunburst */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 19:21:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04453 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:21:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04442 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:21:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (kulshedra [10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA07346 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 05:17:17 +0200 Message-ID: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 05:21:18 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? ( and when ?) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 19:40:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06876 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:40:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from maui.net (maui.net [207.175.210.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06871 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:40:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from langfod@kauai.pacificglobal.net) Received: from kauai.pacificglobal.net (Kauai.PacificGlobal.NET [209.84.182.101]) by maui.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18399; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:39:06 -1000 (HST) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by kauai.pacificglobal.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA00873; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:39:05 -1000 (HST) From: David Langford Message-Id: <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net> Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? In-Reply-To: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> from Ruslan Shevchenko at "Jan 15, 1999 5:21:18 am" To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:39:05 -1000 (HST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 19:54:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08403 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:54:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08392 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:54:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA07818; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:23:28 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id OAA60791; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:23:27 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:23:26 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: David Langford Cc: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? Message-ID: <19990115142326.C55525@freebie.lemis.com> References: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net>; from David Langford on Thu, Jan 14, 1999 at 05:39:05PM -1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 14 January 1999 at 17:39:05 -1000, David Langford wrote: >> Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? > > It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". Not quite the same thing, is it? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 20:10:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10294 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:10:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10283 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (kulshedra [10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA07520; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:05:53 +0200 Message-ID: <369EBF93.8F7E436D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:09:56 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: David Langford , rssh@grad.kiev.ua, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? References: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net> <19990115142326.C55525@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 14 January 1999 at 17:39:05 -1000, David Langford wrote: > >> Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? > > > > It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". > > Not quite the same thing, is it? Interesting, that Unix-World also renamed, so now we have not journal with the world "Unix" in name. ( Yet one exists ? ) Instead, ton's of "flawored" names. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 20:10:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10324 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:10:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA10309 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:10:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 15377 invoked from network); 15 Jan 1999 04:09:24 -0000 Received: from adam.enteract.com (jrs@206.54.252.1) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 04:09:24 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:09:24 -0600 (CST) From: John Sconiers To: "Brian W. Buchanan" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If this is for Newbies you might want to include an INSTALL doc as well..how to compile etc..... Also have you tested this on 3.0-current/release. Please let me know. I have a 3.0 box at work I can throw it on. JOHN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 20:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10906 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA10899 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:15:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 15961 invoked from network); 15 Jan 1999 04:14:45 -0000 Received: from adam.enteract.com (jrs@206.54.252.1) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 04:14:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:14:45 -0600 (CST) From: John Sconiers To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua cc: Greg Lehey , David Langford , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? In-Reply-To: <369EBF93.8F7E436D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > >> Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? > > > It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". > > Not quite the same thing, is it? > Interesting, that Unix-World also renamed, so now we have not journal > with > the world "Unix" in name. ( Yet one exists ? ) uhh... ?Unix SysAdmin.... > Instead, ton's of "flawored" names. JOHN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 20:16:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11095 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:16:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11071 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA07946; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:45:37 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id OAA60886; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:45:35 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:45:35 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua Cc: David Langford , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? Message-ID: <19990115144535.A60865@freebie.lemis.com> References: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net> <19990115142326.C55525@freebie.lemis.com> <369EBF93.8F7E436D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <369EBF93.8F7E436D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA>; from Ruslan Shevchenko on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 06:09:56AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 15 January 1999 at 6:09:56 +0200, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Thursday, 14 January 1999 at 17:39:05 -1000, David Langford wrote: >>>> Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? >>> >>> It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". >> >> Not quite the same thing, is it? > > Interesting, that Unix-World also renamed, so now we have not > journal with the world "Unix" in name. ( Yet one exists ? ) > Instead, ton's of "flawored" names. Question: did any of you read this stuff? I read UNIX Review up to a year or two ago, but it had become so insipid that nobody except a MCSE would read it. Of course they had to change or close up shop. I think that the market for UNIX magazines has dried up because UNIX people don't need paper any more. There are a number of ezines which seem to be doing quite well. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 20:30:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12678 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:30:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12667 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:30:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (kulshedra [10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA07597; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:25:54 +0200 Message-ID: <369EC444.970ECFAA@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:29:56 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, David Langford , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? References: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net> <19990115142326.C55525@freebie.lemis.com> <369EBF93.8F7E436D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <19990115144535.A60865@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Interesting, that Unix-World also renamed, so now we have not > > journal with the world "Unix" in name. ( Yet one exists ? ) > > Instead, ton's of "flawored" names. > > Question: did any of you read this stuff? I read UNIX Review up to a Time to time, from web. > > year or two ago, but it had become so insipid that nobody except a > MCSE would read it. Of course they had to change or close up shop. > > I think that the market for UNIX magazines has dried up because UNIX > people don't need paper any more. There are a number of ezines which > seem to be doing quite well. Hmm, I can't say, that I know general U*IX ezine. (I read this unlooking in log of one flame war, and .... looks, like it's true) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 20:33:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13228 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:33:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smarter.than.nu (lal-99-91.Reshall.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.99.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13223 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:33:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA01381; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:32:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:32:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: John Sconiers cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, John Sconiers wrote: > If this is for Newbies you might want to include an INSTALL doc as > well..how to compile etc..... Also have you tested this on > 3.0-current/release. Please let me know. I have a 3.0 box at work I can > throw it on. It's no more difficult than "make install". A binary would probably be best for newbies, though, I guess. Once the project gets a bit farther along, I'll put up binaries too. I develop on -current, so it's most definitely usable on that. -- Brian Buchanan brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU -------------------------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org daemon(n): 1. an attendant power or spirit : GENIUS 2. the cute little mascot of the FreeBSD operating system To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 20:33:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA13253 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:33:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (KievglavArhit-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13247 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:33:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (kulshedra [10.0.1.99]) by gvinpin.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA07622; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:29:21 +0200 Message-ID: <369EC514.148B0E7B@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:33:24 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Sconiers CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Sconiers wrote: > > > >> Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? > > > > It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". > > > Not quite the same thing, is it? > > Interesting, that Unix-World also renamed, so now we have not journal > > with > > the world "Unix" in name. ( Yet one exists ? ) > > uhh... ?Unix SysAdmin.... > It's named SysAdmin. ;) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 22:06:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25226 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:06:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25218 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:06:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22536; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:06:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990115170656.A22232@caamora.com.au> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:06:56 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net> <19990115142326.C55525@freebie.lemis.com> <369EBF93.8F7E436D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <19990115144535.A60865@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19990115144535.A60865@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 02:45:35PM +1030 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 02:45:35PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 15 January 1999 at 6:09:56 +0200, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >> On Thursday, 14 January 1999 at 17:39:05 -1000, David Langford wrote: > >>>> Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? > >>> > >>> It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". > >> > >> Not quite the same thing, is it? > > > > Interesting, that Unix-World also renamed, so now we have not > > journal with the world "Unix" in name. ( Yet one exists ? ) > > Instead, ton's of "flawored" names. > > Question: did any of you read this stuff? I read UNIX Review up to a > year or two ago, but it had become so insipid that nobody except a > MCSE would read it. Of course they had to change or close up shop. > > I think that the market for UNIX magazines has dried up because UNIX > people don't need paper any more. There are a number of ezines which > seem to be doing quite well. such as ? urls would be nice, please -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 14 22:42:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29418 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29413 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:42:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA08762 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:10:55 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA61719 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:10:55 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:10:55 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? Message-ID: <19990115171054.M55525@freebie.lemis.com> References: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net> <19990115142326.C55525@freebie.lemis.com> <369EBF93.8F7E436D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <19990115144535.A60865@freebie.lemis.com> <19990115170656.A22232@caamora.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990115170656.A22232@caamora.com.au>; from jonathan michaels on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 05:06:56PM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 15 January 1999 at 17:06:56 +1100, jonathan michaels wrote: > On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 02:45:35PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Friday, 15 January 1999 at 6:09:56 +0200, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: >>> Greg Lehey wrote: >>> >>>> On Thursday, 14 January 1999 at 17:39:05 -1000, David Langford wrote: >>>>>> Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? >>>>> >>>>> It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". >>>> >>>> Not quite the same thing, is it? >>> >>> Interesting, that Unix-World also renamed, so now we have not >>> journal with the world "Unix" in name. ( Yet one exists ? ) >>> Instead, ton's of "flawored" names. >> >> Question: did any of you read this stuff? I read UNIX Review up to a >> year or two ago, but it had become so insipid that nobody except a >> MCSE would read it. Of course they had to change or close up shop. >> >> I think that the market for UNIX magazines has dried up because UNIX >> people don't need paper any more. There are a number of ezines which >> seem to be doing quite well. > > such as ? > > urls would be nice, please Well, I'm probably the wrong person to ask, since I don't usually find time to read these things. But SunWorld stands out (http://www.sunworld.com/), and of course you know about Daemon News. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 01:09:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14036 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:09:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ska.bsn (d230.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.9.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14019; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:09:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atrn@zeta.org.au) Received: (from andy@localhost) by ska.bsn (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06812; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:19:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from atrn) Message-Id: <199901150819.TAA06812@ska.bsn> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:19:09 +1100 (EST) From: Andy Newman Reply-To: atrn@zeta.org.au Subject: Re: What are the advantages of ELF kernels? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990114142444.A7476@netmonger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > There's definately an eerie connection somewhere. (Note attempt to move this to chat) I'm another who had an Amiga. Don't know about the rest of you but in 1986 (or whenever it was) I couldn't afford a Sun workstation at home and the Amiga was about the closest thing to a Unix box I could afford. Oh, and it could do graphics & sound better than anything else. I think it's ironic that ten or more years ago we'd be using Unix at work and at home people had lots of clunky machines running CP/M or MS-DOS or OS/9 or TRS/DOS or whatever. The Amiga and some other systems were almost okay. Now it's reversed for many people, they have (full source) Unix systems at home and have to use these clunky PCs at work. (I'm lucky enough to work on Unix systems 99% of the time). -- AN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 01:14:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14061 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:09:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14020 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:09:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA09358; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:38:27 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id TAA62840; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:38:26 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:38:25 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Don Lewis Cc: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, imp@village.org, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/tcpdump/tcpslice tcpslice.c Message-ID: <19990115193825.W55525@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199901150847.AAA28404@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199901150847.AAA28404@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com>; from Don Lewis on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 12:47:28AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [following up to -chat] On Friday, 15 January 1999 at 0:47:28 -0800, Don Lewis wrote: > On Jan 15, 8:12pm, "Dan Langille" wrote: >> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/tcpdump/tcpslice tcpslice.c > >> Yeah. I've been sent some stuff by political activists claiming that Y2K >> is a reason to get back to the land and reduce our dependency on >> technology. > > Getting back to the land around here in the winter would not be a good > idea. Just look at what happened to the Donner Party. See > if you're not familiar with the > story ... Ugly story. But who was talking about winter? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 01:17:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14705 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:17:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14700 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24658; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:15:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05418; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA28564; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:15:38 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199901150915.BAA28564@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:15:38 -0800 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey "Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/tcpdump/tcpslice tcpslice.c" (Jan 15, 7:38pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Greg Lehey , Don Lewis Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/tcpdump/tcpslice tcpslice.c Cc: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, imp@village.org, FreeBSD Chat Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jan 15, 7:38pm, Greg Lehey wrote: } Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/tcpdump/tcpslice tcpslice.c } [following up to -chat] } } On Friday, 15 January 1999 at 0:47:28 -0800, Don Lewis wrote: } > On Jan 15, 8:12pm, "Dan Langille" wrote: } >> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/tcpdump/tcpslice tcpslice.c } > } >> Yeah. I've been sent some stuff by political activists claiming that Y2K } >> is a reason to get back to the land and reduce our dependency on } >> technology. } > } > Getting back to the land around here in the winter would not be a good } > idea. Just look at what happened to the Donner Party. See } > if you're not familiar with the } > story ... } } Ugly story. But who was talking about winter? Well for those of us in the northern hemisphere, the century rolls over during the winter. That's not the best time to schedule massive blackouts and other technological disasters. Maybe I should file a PR ;-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 02:12:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA20036 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:12:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p3.tfs.net [139.146.210.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA20031; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:12:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) id EAA08250; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:11:03 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199901151011.EAA08250@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV In-Reply-To: <199901150810.AAA28286@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> from Don Lewis at "Jan 15, 99 00:10:08 am" To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:10:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #46: Sun Dec 6 03:10:25 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply: > On Jan 15, 12:07am, Jim Bryant wrote: > } Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV > } > } it's what they asked for. really. their intent is clear. gathering > } evidence for use to obtain effective laws. > > Actually the FTC is more interested in fraud and deceptive practices. > See and > . They've > announced a few crackdowns on fraud on the Internet and actually gone > after a few of the more notorious scamming spammers. their intent is to get new laws made. laws that mandate enforcement spending. also, have you ever seen a non-scam spam? i haven't. so what if they get the 0.01% of the spam that isn't a fraud scam. the 99.99% that is will reach the proper agency. dealing with onesies and twosies won't get anything to change. brutal enforcement of new and effective laws will. first, there must be incentive for effective laws and enforcement budgets. > } i realize they probably don't have the staffing to handle each one, > } and i'm sure they realize that too, the intent is clear. > > They don't even have the staff to enforce the existing laws ... gee, i wonder why? could it be all of the bribes from the direct marketing association that helped re-elect congress? when are people going to start holding their congressmen responsible for their actions? a lot of talk about integrity going on right now, unfortunately, we have the most corrupt congressional majority of the 20th century that just got re-elected. let's hope people have now waken up, as THE RECALL VOTES ARE A DONE DEAL. once the current anti-enforcement majority is out, we can have effective laws with bite. we can also organize and ratify international treaties dealing with the REAL problem issues. if spammers want to break the current feeble spam law, then they should be held to answer for it. unsolicited commercial email should have been made a felony, just like junk faxing is. it's only a matter of time before it is, because of the fact that the ftc has better things to do than deal with spam scams constantly. if effectively applied the current spam law will cost more money in taxes for enforcement than making it a felony would have ever cost with an effective opt-in law. unfortunately this integrity-challanged majority in congress refuses to fund ALL kinds of enforcement activities properly. thus a law without bite is worse than no law at all, and thus the problem blooms into the ROTTING CESSPOOL it currently is in MANY areas of life. they want fraudlant spam sent to them... by my experience and all those around me, 99.99% of all spam IS fraudlant. since internet regulation is only a matter of time, it's best that they understand the problem at the extent that it exists, so that intelligent regulation can be done. the sheer volume of what they are asking for will overwhelm them. it will only serve one purpose, to create new EFFECTIVE regulations that can deal with the problem, both domestically and internationally. what criteria would you use to determine what spam is good, when 99.99% of it is fraudluant? as a selectable option in sendmail.cf, fraud-friendly isps can easily leave the option deselected. but i'm sure the majority of decent people out there will agree with me and enable the option. if the problem gets much worse, joe blow down the street may be willing to boycott an isp that doesn't fully block and report fraudulant spam scams. boycott is such a nasty thing to do, but boycotts are effective in getting companies and governments to listen to the will of the people. since freebsd is used by many isps, we should offer the isp owners the option to block and forward such messages to the proper authorities. they will find it easier to do than deal with boycotts. someone has to be held responsible for the invasion of privacy that spam is. if i started an isp today and used the theme that we block spam and report each occurrance to the feds as our sole advertising point, then i guarantee that i will take over the majority of the internet market in kansas city in very short order. i'd be willing to bet a million dollars on that one, any interested investors, please contact me via email. i'm only suggesting a selectable option to automate delivery of what the ftc is asking for here in the usa. they didn't ask for filtration and selective submissions, they asked for unsolicited commercial email. period .-.-.- nowhere in the paragraph did it mention the word fraudulant, because these days, the word fraudulant is implied when talking about spam. the spammers have only themselves to blame. the people have both congress and the isps to blame. if you are not supporting people that want the problem solved once and for all, then you are part of the problem. unsolicited junk faxes are now pretty much a thing of the past, except in isolated incidents that are easily dealt with at the felony level. unsolicited commercial email can be too. people are serious. the ftc has provided the means, and they did not ask people to be selective except for the word "unsolicited". a selectable sendmail.cf option shipped in the distribution is acceptable to suit my proposal. isps that lack moral character can leave it deselected as they wish. to disagree with this is to admit that self-policing the internet [or anything else for that matter] is an utterly sophistic concept that needs to be relegated to the status of fairie tale. which, by the way is a circular concept anyhow, since to agree with my reasoning is to admit the same. at least i have enough moral character to admit it. sorry to bring politics into the issue, but due to the fact of the bribes from the direct marketing association to a certain party enjoying majority status on the hill, we have the law that has not only perpetuated the problem, but indeed has made it worse. thus to not bring politics into the discussion would be VERY NAIEVE. i think that the ftc can overlook the fact that one out of every 10,000 spams forwarded to them is not fraudulant. keep in mind that even if that 1 in 10,000 is not fraudulant, it was still unsolicited, and thus met the definition of what they are asking for. > This is really offtopic for -hackers. not really. given the percentages, there are probably more than a few -hackers subscribers that this is all about, at least they are not in the majority even though they may have helped buy a fraud-friendly majority on the hill. the only way to deal with criminals and hypocrites is to treat them as such. it's the only thing they understand. note the new Cc: to -chat. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 03:00:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24409 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:00:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24380; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 1016xm-0006Vy-00; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:58:50 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA02796; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:58:43 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04648; Fri, 15 Jan 99 10:58:41 GMT Message-Id: <369F1F52.650C9E6E@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:58:27 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV References: <199901151011.EAA08250@unix.tfs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jim Bryant wrote: > [ snip ] > unsolicited commercial email should have been made a felony, just like > junk faxing is. it's only a matter of time before it is, because of > the fact that the ftc has better things to do than deal with spam > scams constantly. if effectively applied the current spam law will > cost more money in taxes for enforcement than making it a felony would > have ever cost with an effective opt-in law. > Your post made very intersting reading Jim, but, for the benefit of a non-US citizen, could you explain the definition of "felony" in the US legal system to put the above paragraph into context. I was under the impression that felony was 'serious' crimes, murder, rape, burglary etc, etc. which makes it seem a bit extreme to make junk faxing/e-mailing a felony. TIA -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 07:59:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03191 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from k6n1.znh.org ([207.109.235.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA02938; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:59:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zach@uffdaonline.net) Received: (from zach@localhost) by k6n1.znh.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA17283; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:56:53 GMT (envelope-from zach) Message-ID: <19990115095653.A16631@znh.org> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:56:53 -0600 From: Zach Heilig To: Mark Ovens , jbryant@unix.tfs.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV References: <199901151011.EAA08250@unix.tfs.net> <369F1F52.650C9E6E@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <369F1F52.650C9E6E@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 10:58:27AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV ] On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 10:58:27AM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Your post made very intersting reading Jim, but, for the benefit of a > non-US citizen, could you explain the definition of "felony" in the US > legal system to put the above paragraph into context. > I was under the impression that felony was 'serious' crimes, murder, > rape, burglary etc, etc. which makes it seem a bit extreme to make > junk faxing/e-mailing a felony. Literally (from a 1965 edition of Webster's dictionary [*]): (a) a grave crime formerly differing from a misdemeanor under English common law by involving forfeiture in addition to any other punishment (b) a grave crime expressly declared to be a felony by the common law (c) a crime declared a felony by statute because of the punishment imposed. I'm pretty sure anytime there are damages [perhaps fines as well?] in excess of a certain amount (I think $1000), it is also considered felony. [*] ok, a bit "out of date", but it's the only one quickly available :-) -- Zach Heilig To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 08:16:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04852 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:15:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04827 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09885; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:13:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <369F692C.C3D452C6@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:13:32 -0700 From: Wes Peters Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: atrn@zeta.org.au CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What are the advantages of ELF kernels? References: <199901150819.TAA06812@ska.bsn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andy Newman wrote: > > > There's definately an eerie connection somewhere. > > (Note attempt to move this to chat) Add a Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org header. ;^) > I'm another who had an Amiga. Don't know about the rest of you but in > 1986 (or whenever it was) I couldn't afford a Sun workstation at home > and the Amiga was about the closest thing to a Unix box I could afford. > Oh, and it could do graphics & sound better than anything else. I bought an Atari ST instead; I mostly wanted SOMETHING with a 68K processor and a graphics screen. Plus, the early Amiga keyboards were horrid. It wasn't long before I had Minix running on my ST, which gave me an almost-workstation, with a lot of bang for the buck in those years. > I think it's ironic that ten or more years ago we'd be using Unix at > work and at home people had lots of clunky machines running CP/M or > MS-DOS or OS/9 or TRS/DOS or whatever. The Amiga and some other systems > were almost okay. Now it's reversed for many people, they have (full > source) Unix systems at home and have to use these clunky PCs at work. > (I'm lucky enough to work on Unix systems 99% of the time). I have Win95 on a laptop at work; I use it exclusively to run NetXRay. I have two desktop machines, a SPARCstation 5 and a PII 266 running FreeBSD. I still prefer the SPARCstation because it has a better keyboard, but prefer FreeBSD to Slowlaris for everything else. Plus, the FreeBSD machine is a LOT faster than the SPARC 5. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 10:26:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20160 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:26:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20153 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:26:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 101DwX-0006ES-00; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:26:02 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA04605; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:25:25 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-2) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11841; Fri, 15 Jan 99 18:25:22 GMT Message-Id: <369F8803.81DB0359@uk.radan.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:25:07 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What are the advantages of ELF kernels? References: <199901150819.TAA06812@ska.bsn> <369F692C.C3D452C6@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters wrote: > > I have two desktop machines, a SPARCstation 5 and a PII 266 running > FreeBSD. I still prefer the SPARCstation because it has a better > keyboard, but prefer FreeBSD to Slowlaris for everything else. Plus, > the FreeBSD machine is a LOT faster than the SPARC 5. ;^) > I'll agree with the observation about the keyboard. Sun do a converter to allow you to use a PC keyboard with a Sun, shame they don't they do one that does the opposite :-(. FWIW, my K6-233 with FreeBSD 2.2.8 is lot faster than my Sparc10 (SunOS 4.1.3_U1), bith with 64MB. Mind you it's not a fair comparison, what was a top of the range PC when Sparc 5 & 10 were top Sun workstations?. That's the comparison you'd have to make. BTW, as you're a Sun and FreeBSD user, do you know if it's possible to map the function keys in FreeBSD to perform the functions of L2 - L10 (don't really need L1 ;-) ) on a Sun Keyboard? > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 10:59:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25070 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:59:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25054 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:59:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (root@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id KAA32456 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:59:05 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id KAA04248 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:59:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:58:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: This is just too cool Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mirosys/jimbelimbo/ This is so cool I had to share it with you. If you have no interest in GP bikes, it is still cool. Check it out and if you don't think it is the coolest racing clip you have seen, I will give you your money back. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 12:42:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08739 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:42:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08730 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:42:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id MAA05943; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:41:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id MAA23606; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:41:55 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id NAA05444; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:41:53 -0700 Message-ID: <369FA811.A675DA24@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:41:53 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What are the advantages of ELF kernels? References: <199901150819.TAA06812@ska.bsn> <369F692C.C3D452C6@softweyr.com> <369F8803.81DB0359@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens wrote: > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > I have two desktop machines, a SPARCstation 5 and a PII 266 running > > FreeBSD. I still prefer the SPARCstation because it has a better > > keyboard, but prefer FreeBSD to Slowlaris for everything else. Plus, > > the FreeBSD machine is a LOT faster than the SPARC 5. ;^) > > I'll agree with the observation about the keyboard. Sun do a converter > to allow you to use a PC keyboard with a Sun, shame they don't they do > one that does the opposite :-(. > > FWIW, my K6-233 with FreeBSD 2.2.8 is lot faster than my Sparc10 (SunOS > 4.1.3_U1), bith with 64MB. Mind you it's not a fair comparison, what was > a top of the range PC when Sparc 5 & 10 were top Sun workstations?. > That's the comparison you'd have to make. My home system is a K6/233, and it's a nice quick little beast too. It's faster at some things than the PII/266, and slower at others. It also has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, but I can't find a local dealer that stocks them anymore. > BTW, as you're a Sun and FreeBSD user, do you know if it's possible to > map the function keys in FreeBSD to perform the functions of L2 - L10 > (don't really need L1 ;-) ) on a Sun Keyboard? In what? Most window managers will let you bind keystrokes to actions, and it's certainly easy to do in Emacs. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 13:13:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13710 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:13:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13704 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:13:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul3.u.washington.edu (root@saul3.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.1]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA15428; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:13:44 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul3.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA20059; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:13:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:13:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Wes Peters cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Good keyboards In-Reply-To: <369FA811.A675DA24@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: >has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, I really like very nice tactile reponse of Powerbook keyboards as well as the low profile of the keys. Looking for keyboards on the net yileds me nothing but cheapo crap. I also tried converting to dvorak but the few keyboards I tried had a curve profile so the keys could not be moved. Who makes good keyboards? Where can I get them? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 13:44:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18565 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:44:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hschpt06.hou.ucarb.com ([144.68.7.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18546 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:44:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from miker@hschpt06.hou.ucarb.com) Received: (from miker@localhost) by hschpt06.hou.ucarb.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04017; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:44:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mikenguyen@sprintmail.com) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:44:09 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Nguyen To: "Jason C. Wells" Subject: RE: Good keyboards Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15-Jan-99 Jason C. Wells uttered: > On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > >>has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, > > I really like very nice tactile reponse of Powerbook keyboards as well as > the low profile of the keys. Looking for keyboards on the net yileds me > nothing but cheapo crap. I also tried converting to dvorak but the few > keyboards I tried had a curve profile so the keys could not be moved. > > Who makes good keyboards? Where can I get them? My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). They are made by Lexmark, I think. Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them whenever I can find a source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. Mike. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Nguyen - UNIX Sysadmin and Geek Pager (800) SKY-8888 pin# 1138368 or 1138368@skytel.com You never know how many friends you have until you rent a house on the beach. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 14:08:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21594 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:08:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kendra.ne.mediaone.net (kendra.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.94.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21589 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:08:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from software@kew.com) Received: from sonata.hh.kew.com (root@sonata-dmz.hh.kew.com [192.168.205.1]) by kendra.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA29382; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:06:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from kew.com (minerva.hh.kew.com [192.168.203.144]) by sonata.hh.kew.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA00932; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:06:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369FBBF0.50F5BE71@kew.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:06:41 -0500 From: Drew Derbyshire Organization: Kendra Electronic Wonderworks, Stoneham, MA 02180 (http://www.kew.com) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Nguyen CC: "Jason C. Wells" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters Subject: Re: Good keyboards References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Nguyen wrote: > On 15-Jan-99 Jason C. Wells uttered: > > On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > >>has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, > > > > I really like very nice tactile reponse of Powerbook keyboards as well as > > the low profile of the keys. Looking for keyboards on the net yileds me > > nothing but cheapo crap. I also tried converting to dvorak but the few > > keyboards I tried had a curve profile so the keys could not be moved. > > > > Who makes good keyboards? Where can I get them? > > My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones > with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). I call them machine gun keyboards because of the noise the tactile feedback makes. I own three compact narrow ones (no numeric keypad, does have normal arrows and page keys) and one wide one. > They are made by Lexmark, I think. No. LexMark sold it off -- I want to say to UNICOMP. Yup, The narrow one I'm typing has IBM logo on top and "UNICOMP model M" on the bottom. See http://www.pckeyboard.com/IBMSales.htm > Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them whenever I can find a > source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at > home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, > although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. Electronic Planet here in Boston (Woburn) had a pile of the narrow ones for $15 last fall. All gone now. -- Drew Derbyshire UUPC/extended e-mail: software@kew.com Telephone: 617-279-9812 "... Order the entire DOOM trilogy now! After all, you'll probably end up in Hell anyway eventually. Shouldn't you know your way around before you make the extended visit?" - id Software To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 14:33:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25143 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jive.dub.net (jive.dub.net [169.197.1.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25135 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unfurl@jive.dub.net) Received: (from unfurl@localhost) by jive.dub.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24972 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:33:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from unfurl) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:33:48 -0700 From: Unfurl To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good keyboards Message-ID: <19990115153348.A24951@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Mike Nguyen on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 03:44:09PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 03:44:09PM -0600, Mike Nguyen wrote: > My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones > with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). They are made by > Lexmark, I think. Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them > whenever I can find a source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at > home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, > although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. > > Mike. Word of warning. They last forever until you dump a bowl of cereal in them. This is a bad idea especially if, like me, this is your favorite keyboard. Also, spilling beer in them is a bad idea. I have (past tense) owned two of these beauties. I miss them much. -Bill -- unfurl@dub.net - This is a munition. Fight Back! #!/bin/perl -sp0777i Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01645 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:30:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01637 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:30:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@agora.rdrop.com) Received: (from john@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26346; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:30:20 -0800 (PST) From: John Cavanaugh Message-Id: <199901152330.PAA26346@agora.rdrop.com> Subject: Re: Good keyboards To: unfurl@dub.net (Unfurl) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:30:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990115153348.A24951@dub.net> from "Unfurl" at Jan 15, 99 03:33:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 03:44:09PM -0600, Mike Nguyen wrote: > > My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones > > with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). They are made by > > Lexmark, I think. Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them > > whenever I can find a source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at > > home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, > > although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. > > > > Mike. > > Word of warning. They last forever until you dump a bowl of cereal in > them. This is a bad idea especially if, like me, this is your favorite > keyboard. Also, spilling beer in them is a bad idea. > > I have (past tense) owned two of these beauties. I miss them much. They also have a big problem with staples. We have a bunch of them (and the 3151 terminals they talk to) connected to our RS/6000 and have been unable to convince our mouth-breathing claims processors of their suggested care and feeding (or lack thereof). ;-) -- John Cavanaugh "There can be only one." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 15:34:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01974 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:34:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stage1.thirdage.com (stage1.thirdage.com [204.74.82.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01965 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:34:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jal@ThirdAge.com) Received: from gigi (gigi.thirdage.com [204.74.82.169]) by stage1.thirdage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA09356; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:29:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990115143915.03abd400@mail.thirdage.com> X-Sender: jal@mail.thirdage.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:32:58 -0800 To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com (Don Lewis) From: Jamie Lawrence Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901151011.EAA08250@unix.tfs.net> References: <199901150810.AAA28286@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-hackers trimmed] I've tried to stay out of this one, but this message put me over the edge. I think it complete folly to ask for regulation of spam. It simply isn't that big of a deal. Yes, I say that as a professional sysadmin, although don't mistake that for speaking for my company. >a lot of talk about integrity going on right now, unfortunately, we >have the most corrupt congressional majority of the 20th century that >just got re-elected. let's hope people have now waken up, as THE >RECALL VOTES ARE A DONE DEAL. once the current anti-enforcement >majority is out, we can have effective laws with bite. we can also >organize and ratify international treaties dealing with the REAL >problem issues. You admit that they're a bunch of self serving losers, and you want to hand them the power to regulate the content of your email? >unsolicited commercial email should have been made a felony, just like >junk faxing is. it's only a matter of time before it is, because of >the fact that the ftc has better things to do than deal with spam >scams constantly. if effectively applied the current spam law will >cost more money in taxes for enforcement than making it a felony would >have ever cost with an effective opt-in law. Why stop there? Let's make it a crime to say mean things on mailing lists, too. 5 years and $50,000 seems about right for profanity. >they want fraudlant spam sent to them... by my experience and all >those around me, 99.99% of all spam IS fraudlant. I assume you've tried them all to see and kept records to that precision? >since internet regulation is only a matter of time, it's best that >they understand the problem at the extent that it exists, so that >intelligent regulation can be done. the sheer volume of what they are >asking for will overwhelm them. it will only serve one purpose, to >create new EFFECTIVE regulations that can deal with the problem, both >domestically and internationally. What it will do it ban anonymous communications and tighten the noose around free speech, all in the name of saving the wear and tear on your 'd' key. Way to go. >if you are not supporting people that want the problem solved once and >for all, then you are part of the problem. Well, then so be it. I support free speech. If you can't be bothered to do your own filtering, I think you're as much a problem as the petty moralists trying to force libraries to filter Internet access so that they don't have to watch their children themselves. >to disagree with this is to admit that self-policing the internet [or >anything else for that matter] is an utterly sophistic concept that >needs to be relegated to the status of fairie tale. which, by the way >is a circular concept anyhow, since to agree with my reasoning is to >admit the same. at least i have enough moral character to admit it. What? You're not making any sense. The net is built on collaboration and self regulation. What are you trying to say? That the inconvenience spam poses to you should bring the regulators (who of course will have no idea what they're regulating, but the voters want it, so so be it) running to regulate speech? -j To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 19:05:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22998 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:05:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA22969 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:04:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4019.ime.net [209.90.195.29]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA28303; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:03:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990115215911.00b21370@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:02:07 -0500 To: Mark Kobussen , spork From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <369EAE37.418261B9@iname.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:55 PM 1/14/99 -0600, Mark Kobussen wrote: >Check out www.eio.com - everything you need to know to purchase it and >get it up and running as soon as possible. the Sharp 6" LCD? Pretty nice piece of equipment. It's too bad they didn't offer an enclosure, could end up with a pretty neat portable TV unit or something. How do you intend to shoot NTSC out of a computer? just using a Computer/Composite Out like the ATI Rage PRO AGP? --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 19:39:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25275 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:39:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mirriwinni.cse.rmit.edu.au (pm.cse.rmit.edu.au [131.170.118.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25270 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:39:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tony@pm.cse.rmit.EDU.AU) Received: (from tony@localhost) by mirriwinni.cse.rmit.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16194; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:39:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from tony) From: Tony Frank Message-Id: <199901160339.OAA16194@mirriwinni.cse.rmit.edu.au> Subject: Re: Good keyboards In-Reply-To: from Mike Nguyen at "Jan 15, 99 03:44:09 pm" To: mikenguyen@sprintmail.com (Mike Nguyen) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:39:32 +1100 (EST) Cc: jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, > My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones > with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). They are made by > Lexmark, I think. Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them > whenever I can find a source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at > home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, > although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. Ahh yes... I've got several of these as well, though there are a couple that have a slightly 'soft' button rather than the strong 'click' style. They came with a lot of the PS/2 systems, Model 30 & model 60 from memory.. Their newer win95 style keyboards are still alot nicer than many others that I have used... -- | Tony Frank | Mobile: +61-412-481-029 | | | Fax: +61-3-9720-4672 | | Trainee Support Engineer, Ericsson | Email: tony@pm.cse.rmit.edu.au | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 19:48:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25850 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:48:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25845 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:48:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from quark.feynman.com (obica-1-183.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.90.57]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id VAA17765; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:48:47 -0600 (CST) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by quark.feynman.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id VAA26894; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:49:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990115214910.A26880@feynman.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:49:10 -0600 From: Frank Pawlak To: "Jason C. Wells" , Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good keyboards References: <369FA811.A675DA24@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 01:13:10PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 01:13:10PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > >has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, > > I really like very nice tactile reponse of Powerbook keyboards as well as > the low profile of the keys. Looking for keyboards on the net yileds me > nothing but cheapo crap. I also tried converting to dvorak but the few > keyboards I tried had a curve profile so the keys could not be moved. > > Who makes good keyboards? Where can I get them? Try an IBM. www.necx.com has been a good place to purchase computer equipment and they have good prices. Frank > > Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering > Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 20:18:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA29405 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:18:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dnh.pce.net (dnh.pce.net [207.1.59.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA29393 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:18:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hounddog@dnh.pce.net) Received: from localhost (hounddog@localhost) by dnh.pce.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00508; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:17:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from hounddog@dnh.pce.net) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:17:34 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Hummel Reply-To: dnh@pce.net To: Mike Nguyen cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Good keyboards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I agree. I have one from an XT dated 1986, and it's the best keyboard I've ever used. I beat on it, and it just keeps working. The only downfall is that it's a little noisy for late night stealth computing. I wouldn't mind getting a few more myself. Dave On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Mike Nguyen wrote: > > On 15-Jan-99 Jason C. Wells uttered: > > On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > >>has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, > > > > I really like very nice tactile reponse of Powerbook keyboards as well as > > the low profile of the keys. Looking for keyboards on the net yileds me > > nothing but cheapo crap. I also tried converting to dvorak but the few > > keyboards I tried had a curve profile so the keys could not be moved. > > > > Who makes good keyboards? Where can I get them? > > > My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones > with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). They are made by > Lexmark, I think. Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them > whenever I can find a source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at > home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, > although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. > > Mike. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mike Nguyen - UNIX Sysadmin and Geek > Pager (800) SKY-8888 pin# 1138368 > or 1138368@skytel.com > > You never know how many friends you have until you rent a house on the > beach. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 20:52:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02444 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:52:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02439 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:52:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04587; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901160446.UAA04587@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: Mark Kobussen , spork , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:02:07 EST." <4.1.19990115215911.00b21370@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:46:55 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 08:55 PM 1/14/99 -0600, Mark Kobussen wrote: > >Check out www.eio.com - everything you need to know to purchase it and > >get it up and running as soon as possible. > > the Sharp 6" LCD? Pretty nice piece of equipment. It's too bad they > didn't offer an enclosure, could end up with a pretty neat portable TV unit > or something. > > How do you intend to shoot NTSC out of a computer? just using a > Computer/Composite Out like the ATI Rage PRO AGP? Just following through on this one, for anyone that is thinking about using this screen, check the links to Liquid Image's site, and note that the total cost of parts to run the screen in a DC-only environment is around $200.oo (http://www.liquidimage.ca/stufflq6.html). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 20:53:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02500 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:53:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02493 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:53:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4025.ime.net [209.90.195.35]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19080; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:53:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990115234933.00a72ee0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:51:05 -0500 To: Mike Smith From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Car Mp3 Player Cc: Mark Kobussen , spork , Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901160446.UAA04587@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:46 PM 1/15/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> At 08:55 PM 1/14/99 -0600, Mark Kobussen wrote: >> >Check out www.eio.com - everything you need to know to purchase it and >> >get it up and running as soon as possible. >> >> the Sharp 6" LCD? Pretty nice piece of equipment. It's too bad they >> didn't offer an enclosure, could end up with a pretty neat portable TV unit >> or something. >> >> How do you intend to shoot NTSC out of a computer? just using a >> Computer/Composite Out like the ATI Rage PRO AGP? > >Just following through on this one, for anyone that is thinking about >using this screen, check the links to Liquid Image's site, and note >that the total cost of parts to run the screen in a DC-only environment >is around $200.oo (http://www.liquidimage.ca/stufflq6.html). Yeah I saw. as it goes you could pick up a good Sony Composite/tuner 4" job from like J&R Computer World in New York for 300-400 if I recall.. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice display for what its worth.. but in a semi-professional installation, I'd be tempted to use something off the shelf for a display.. then I'd just put a v-hook mount on it... so a sony NTSC screen would work.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 15 22:05:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08735 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:05:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.brann.org (doorman.brann.org [166.84.191.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08730 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:05:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@freebie.brann.org) Received: (from john@localhost) by freebie.brann.org (8.9.1/8.8.7) id BAA25709; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:04:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from john) Message-ID: <19990116010423.A25696@brann.org> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:04:23 -0500 From: John Brann To: Greg Lehey , rssh@grad.kiev.ua Cc: David Langford , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? References: <369EB42E.1AC62075@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <199901150339.RAA00873@kauai.pacificglobal.net> <19990115142326.C55525@freebie.lemis.com> <369EBF93.8F7E436D@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> <19990115144535.A60865@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990115144535.A60865@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 02:45:35PM +1030 Organization: Not while I'm at home Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 02:45:35PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 15 January 1999 at 6:09:56 +0200, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >> On Thursday, 14 January 1999 at 17:39:05 -1000, David Langford wrote: > >>>> Anybody know, why Unix Reviews now renamed to performancecomputing ? > >>> > >>> It was eitehr that or name it "NT Review". > >> > >> Not quite the same thing, is it? > > > > Interesting, that Unix-World also renamed, so now we have not > > journal with the world "Unix" in name. ( Yet one exists ? ) > > Instead, ton's of "flawored" names. > > Question: did any of you read this stuff? I read UNIX Review up to a > year or two ago, but it had become so insipid that nobody except a > MCSE would read it. Of course they had to change or close up shop. Whoa, wait a minute! What about Stan Kelly Bootle? His column was restored to two pages last month. Admittedly he's about all I read in it, but he's worth the (free) subscription. > > I think that the market for UNIX magazines has dried up because UNIX > people don't need paper any more. There are a number of ezines which > seem to be doing quite well. > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message John -- Unreal City, Under the brown fog of a winter dawn, finger john@doorman.brann.org for pgp public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 01:46:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24573 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:46:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p135.tfs.net [139.146.210.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24523; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:45:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) id DAA54755; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:45:41 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199901160945.DAA54755@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990115143915.03abd400@mail.thirdage.com> from Jamie Lawrence at "Jan 15, 99 03:32:58 pm" To: jal@ThirdAge.com (Jamie Lawrence) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:45:35 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dennis.moore@mail.house.gov Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #46: Sun Dec 6 03:10:25 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply: [absurd uneducated anarchist crotch-rot rant deleted] > >to disagree with this is to admit that self-policing the internet [or > >anything else for that matter] is an utterly sophistic concept that > >needs to be relegated to the status of fairie tale. which, by the way > >is a circular concept anyhow, since to agree with my reasoning is to > >admit the same. at least i have enough moral character to admit it. > > What? You're not making any sense. what part did you not understand. self-regulation DOES NOT work, HAS NEVER worked, and WILL NEVER work. it is a historically sophistic concept. where there is no threat of punishment, there is no incentive to not do something. anarchists like you have made the internet a ROTTING CESSPOOL of criminal activity. every now and then the toilet does need flushed lest the whole house become diseased! > The net is built on collaboration and self regulation. What are you > trying to say? That the inconvenience spam poses to you should bring > the regulators (who of course will have no idea what they're regulating, > but the voters want it, so so be it) running to regulate speech? how you criminals sit back and use the worn-out [and totally inappropriate to the conversation] phrase "free speech" to support criminal acts is amazing. free speech has it's limitations, constitutionally tested limitations. i understand your opposition to laws, as laws are the criminal's worst enemy. this is NOT a free speech issue. this is an issue of property rights. owners of private property have rights, the renters of private property have rights. well tested rights. your free speech right ends when you leave your owned/rented property or public property, and enter someone else's owned/rented property. disagree with me? what if someone throws a rock through your living room window with a note attached, and defends the act based on the free speech clause? are you starting to see the point? freedom of speech protections constitutionally end when you enter someone's domicile or place of business against their will [either personally, or by proxy like the rock through the window], or when you have been asked to leave. we rent domiciles and places of business on the internet. we have constantly asked you assholes to leave our owned/rented property and not to come back. you keep coming back. time to call the sheriff! if you believe in sending unsolicited shit so much, i'll let you do it the day you start paying my internet bills, until then you criminal assholes need to keep your shit out of the general public's owned/rented property that they pay good money for. THIS IS NOT THE POST OFFICE! until the spammers or the government starts paying for everyone's service, the supreme court agrees with me [ref. the "Recipient" ruling from the fifties, and every private property and rented property case ever heard by the court]. If effective laws aren't made, THE CURRENT LAW ALLOWING SPAM WILL BE OVERTURNED AS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and the entire question of violating the rights of the owner/lessee of owned/rented property will be before the supreme court. i'm sure you know what the decision will be, no matter how conservative the Justice. you and your criminal friends are free to set up web pages and advertise them in an APPROPRIATE PLACE, such as an appropriately named newsgroup like alt.scams.advertised. by the way, spamming in inappropriate newsgroups is another good target for reform. based on the number of available newsgroups, and the ability to create new ones easily, such reforms would not in any way violate free speech. yell: "I have a bomb" in a public place and see what I mean about "APPROPRIATE PLACE", pass out a tract in a publically owned airport and see what I mean about "APPROPRIATE PLACE". have a public demonstration without a permit. the words "APPROPRIATE PLACE" are also constitutionally tested and found to be VALID limitations on free speech. you and your criminal friends are on very shaky ground. support a fair opt-in spam law, with real and involuntary enforcement, with real budgets for enforcement, or lose your scam method altogether. your choice. 270,000,000 americans are pissed. who the fuck are you to defy the will of the american public, or the U.S. Constitution [as upheld time and time again]?! stop violating OUR rights on OUR owned/rented property! 220+ years of tested cases can not be wrong, and WILL be upheld. take your faux pas "free speech" defense and go crawl back under your victorian rock while we piss on your parade. throwing rocks through windows is a criminal act, regardless if a note is tied to it or not! Posted: PRIVATE PROPERTY! -------------------------------------------------------- NOTE TO HONORABLE ISP OWNERS AND INTERNET PATRONS: remember this argument. remember it well. it will win EVERY case EVERY time you press charges against or sue a spammer. they will, as this criminal/criminal-supporter has, use "free speech" sophistry as the cornerstone of their case every time. what their uneducated and feeble minds don't understand is that it's not a free speech issue, and that it is a private/rented property issue. in some states it is perfectly legal to bash someone's skull in if they won't leave your private property. gee, i wonder why people get so emotional? as renters and property owners, it is up to us to do something about the problem [legal action], and when we cannot handle it ourselves, to compel our governments to handle the issue once and for all. Americans, forward all UNSOLICITED commercial email, regardless of fraud status to uce@ftc.gov AS THEY HAVE ASKED. If it overwhelms them, then they will see no other choice but to call the current [unconstitutional] laws allowing spam into question, as well as push for clear international treaties on the issue. time to call the sheriff! time to fire your right wing criminal supporting hypocrite congressman! politics are central to this issue, any intelligent discussion cannot fail to point out who enabled the problem to grow like a mushroom out of shit, while taking the money from the criminal's umbrella organization: the Direct Marketing Association. if you are not in america, keep in mind that most countries honor such private property laws and also have equivilant laws of their own along the same lines. relating the internet to private property is simply the natural progression of existing, applicable laws into the 21st century. we cannot prevent someone from renting space for a web page to advertise their scams, so long as their landlord allows them to. what we can do is to boot them off of OUR property FOREVER, and prevent them from entering unless directly invited [not by proxy], with the support of the constitution. a child of five understands that what i am saying is already a law of nature. unfortunately, due to the criminal elements, it also has to be made a federal statue [it already is, but criminals require the law to be specific to the internet before they take it seriously]. regulation on the internet is an issue of simple property rights, and a natural extention to existing laws. it's only a matter of time, and that time will be sooner than the criminals think. the U.S. Constitution requires that any law regarding interstate and international commerce be a federal law. constitutionally, this is a mandate. states are also free to make laws [to a certain degree] concerning commerce into or out of their states. the right wing idea of not enforcing regulations/laws has done nothing for America or the world for that matter but make things intolerable for anyone except criminals. the same goes for the whole concept of "self-regulation" which is simply a sophistic fairie tale concept that has no meaning. any regulation with a vague meaning is legally the same as no regulation at all. if they are not careful, the private property question will be put in the terms of "any unsolicited direct marketing" before the supreme court, that includes telemarketing. the constitution is on the side of the people. since it's a private property issue, restraint of trade doesn't even enter into the picture. free speech defenses in private property issues usually end up in a summary judgment for the property owner or lessee, so long as the legally valid point is made that it is a private property issue. anyone want to fund a test in the supreme court? i'll challange spammers! if i don't see any support for fair laws on the public's terms, i'll constitutionally challange the entire concept of all direct marketing not terminating in my U.S. Mail box. As soon as I file, they will have already lost because free speech and restraint of trade are invalid arguments in a private property case. any attorney on this mailing list will have no choice but to concur with my argument. spam will be beat based on private property issues. anything short of nationalization of the internet and integration into the functions of the post office, or a complete buyout of the internet by spammers offering free service for all conditional on users accepting spam will fall short on challange. i'm sure nobody wants either of those to happen! the spammer's only choice to remain in existance legally is to agree to new enforcable laws [and the applicable enforcement budget] on the public's terms. -------------------------------------------------------- TO MEMBERS OF THE DIRECT MARKETING ASSOCIATION, RIGHT-WING WHACKOS, AND SPAMMING ISPs: THIS IS NOT THE POST OFFICE. your denial of the validity of my argument, or the seriousness of the situation CAN be interpreted as a verbal waiver of your rights to protection from denial-of-service attacks which are based on the same legal principles. if you are against laws and regulations, please don't be selective. you, by your own arguments deserve no more legal protection than you believe in the general public, honest businesses, and honorable isps having. you have had your chance to "self-regulate". by not doing so, you have shown your true colors. time for the people to take over. if we remove your kind from legal existance, it's your fault. you have had how many years to try to "self-regulate"? it does not work, and thus other solutions must be found. no more sophistic "voluntary" plans. "voluntary self-regulation" is synonymous with the phrase "honor amongst theives". fucking hypocrites. -------------------------------------------------------- to -hackers: please take this to -chat. i posted this in -hackers as well as -chat because of several rebuttals in -hackers based on similar invalid arguments. sorry for the length, but based on the refusals to comply with the wishes of a federal agency, and the sophistic arguments presented skirting the subject by defending the criminals sending the unsolicited commercial email [yes, a tresspasser is a criminal], I felt it necessary to clarify the whole issue in PROPER terms. please note that this is also Cc:'ed to my congressman. i'd appreciate if the honorable people out there would write similar statements to theirs. please ask your users to also do so blatently on your ISP home page, you might find that you get a lot of positive comments, and a larger customer base by doing so. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 02:08:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26271 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:08:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA26257; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:07:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA99892; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:07:10 -0800 (PST) To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jmb@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:45:35 CST." <199901160945.DAA54755@unix.tfs.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:07:09 -0800 Message-ID: <99889.916481229@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can people *please* start paying more careful attention to the cc's? I know it's easy to miss one and I just did it myself or I wouldn't be going *Aaaahhh! It's out of control again!!*, but I'm seeing all kinds of stuff cross-posted to chat/hackers, hackers/current, current/questions/hackers/cvs-all(!!), you name it, and it's evil and nasty and bad. Furthermore, I thought we had a technological solution for suppressing duplicates already in place - did it simply stop working at some point, Jon? Thanks. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 05:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12075 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 05:02:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12070 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 05:02:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id CAA16982; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:01:54 +1300 (NZDT) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.2/8.9.1) id CAA00991; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:01:53 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:01:53 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: Jim Bryant Cc: Jamie Lawrence , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, dennis.moore@mail.house.gov, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] Message-ID: <19990117020152.A812@clear.co.nz> References: <4.1.19990115143915.03abd400@mail.thirdage.com> <199901160945.DAA54755@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199901160945.DAA54755@unix.tfs.net>; from Jim Bryant on Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 03:45:35AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 03:45:35AM -0600, Jim Bryant wrote: > In reply: > > > [absurd uneducated anarchist crotch-rot rant deleted] > > > >to disagree with this is to admit that self-policing the internet [or > > >anything else for that matter] is an utterly sophistic concept that > > >needs to be relegated to the status of fairie tale. which, by the way > > >is a circular concept anyhow, since to agree with my reasoning is to > > >admit the same. at least i have enough moral character to admit it. > > > > What? You're not making any sense. > > what part did you not understand. self-regulation DOES NOT work, HAS > NEVER worked, and WILL NEVER work. it is a historically sophistic > concept. where there is no threat of punishment, there is no > incentive to not do something. > > anarchists like you have made the internet a ROTTING CESSPOOL of > criminal activity. every now and then the toilet does need flushed > lest the whole house become diseased! > > [rest of shouting removed for the safety of others] Your messages are interesting. I think you are both right, to a certain extent. Jim: Apart from a token mention of other countries in one paragraph, you presuppose that (a) the entire problem lies within the governance of a single entity, namely the US (b) that there is a conceivable mechanism for enforcing any law outlawing UCE Both these premises are faulty, in my opinion. The problem of spam is not new; all forms of communication suffer from it in one way or other. The problem with e-mail spam is that it is incredibly cheap to originate, and it costs recipients money to receive. For example, I get cold-called on my GSM phone when I am in other countries. This costs me money much the same as the e-mail spam I receive costs me money. It rarely happens, though, because it is expensive for the spammer to do. There are three ways I can see to defeat the spammers: 1. Make it free to receive spam. Practically, the only way to accomplish this is to make all inbound e-mail free. This isn't practical at all. 2. Make it expensive to send spam. Practically, this could only be done by making it expensive to send all e-mail. This won't happen. 3. Implement a technical solution based on end-to-end signatures and/or cryptography, so that unsolicited mail will never be accepted. This would effectively make spam pointless, since the target audience is removed. If the internet is indeed a "rotting cesspool of criminal activity", then it will not be improved by treating the symptoms - you need to attack the cause. If it is technically possible for spam to be sent, it will be sent. This is the nature of humanity, and no amount of moral posturing or regional lawmaking will stop it. I have copied your senator, or congressman, or whoever you said he was. My message to him is unsolicited. I am not (nor have I ever been) a US citizen. What facet of US law is stopping me from doing this? What possible future US law could stop me? Is there any practical difference between this letter, and its content, and another message I might have chosen to send advertising some pyramid sales scheme? Again, which current or future US law could indict me? Lawers and government will not save us from spam. That will only happen by the application of thought from software engineers and protocol architects. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 05:26:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14263 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 05:26:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14253 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 05:26:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26894; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:27:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990117002755.C26744@caamora.com.au> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:27:55 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good keyboards Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <369FA811.A675DA24@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 01:13:10PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 01:13:10PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > >has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, > > I really like very nice tactile reponse of Powerbook keyboards as well as > the low profile of the keys. Looking for keyboards on the net yileds me > nothing but cheapo crap. I also tried converting to dvorak but the few > keyboards I tried had a curve profile so the keys could not be moved. > > Who makes good keyboards? Where can I get them? if you like teh ibm pc/rt keyboards .. sold with ibm rs6000 workstations, lexmark build them for ibm these days. it is possible to buy them from lexmark but the price is steep, in australia, they cost $AUD450 (abiut $USD300 doing a straight conversion). i can supply ibm part and lexmark identifying number if your interested. these keyboards are not as heavy as teh old (20 years ago) average mainframe terminal keyboards, thierfore they are not as solid and do flex a bit but they are not anywhere near as bad as teh $USD20 door wedgies .. er sorry keybaords. ps, teh lexmarks are probably cheaper, things like import tax and freight etc, i have several and wouldn't part with them for anyting. they are a full stroke, straight keyboard that works well with freebsd, os/2 (i wonder why, grin) and xfree and ibm pc dos, and ms dos v5. also they woork well in your lap in bed and come with two length cables a short one i use at teh desktop and a really long one i use when i bed ridden. they are well balanced and respind to dvoraking very well, the key caps are replaceable without taing teh key top off of teh kye shaft and spring assembly. spares are also available .. a big plus if you use the keyboard to earn a living and more than most amatures who just hunt and peck fro "fun and profit" sorry for teh rave i like my lexmark, er umm ibm pc/rt keyboard. or if yo are more familiar they are like teh keyboards as supplied with the ib, ps/2 series computers. regards jonathan ps, please excuse my spelling, dsylexia will do this to a spellchecker. -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 05:29:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14595 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 05:29:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14590 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 05:29:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26913; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:31:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990117003129.D26744@caamora.com.au> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:31:29 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good keyboards Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Mike Nguyen on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 03:44:09PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 03:44:09PM -0600, Mike Nguyen wrote: > > On 15-Jan-99 Jason C. Wells uttered: > > On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > > > >>has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, > > > > I really like very nice tactile reponse of Powerbook keyboards as well as > > the low profile of the keys. Looking for keyboards on the net yileds me > > nothing but cheapo crap. I also tried converting to dvorak but the few > > keyboards I tried had a curve profile so the keys could not be moved. > > > > Who makes good keyboards? Where can I get them? > > > My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones > with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). They are made by > Lexmark, I think. Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them > whenever I can find a source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at > home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, > although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. and i thought i was the only one left .. well well. just goes to show what a good keyboard can do .. grin. regards jonathan ... keep the faith .. ibm rs6000 were good for someting, the pc/rt keyboard -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 05:39:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA15169 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 05:39:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA15164 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 05:39:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26932; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:40:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990117004045.E26744@caamora.com.au> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:40:45 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good keyboards Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Dave Hummel on Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 11:17:34PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 at 11:17:34PM -0500, Dave Hummel wrote: > > I agree. I have one from an XT dated 1986, and it's the best keyboard I've > ever used. I beat on it, and it just keeps working. The only downfall is > that it's a little noisy for late night stealth computing. I wouldn't mind > getting a few more myself. i have three of them as well .. teh old xt type .. is it at all possible to get them to work in an ibm pc/at style keyboard 'port' .. a smallbalck box or someting like that .. most keyboards thes days .. ok a little while ago (grin) were pc/at and pc/xt harware compatible .. all yo had to do was flip a switch. i have one of teh pc/rt 's doing teh rounds and two new still in sealed plastic wrap as spares for when my currently long serving one wears out. anyway just a though regards jonathan, keeping sydney awake with my pc/rt machine gun .. -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 06:02:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16605 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA16600 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:02:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA26964; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:03:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990117010348.F26744@caamora.com.au> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:03:48 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19990115143915.03abd400@mail.thirdage.com> <199901160945.DAA54755@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199901160945.DAA54755@unix.tfs.net>; from Jim Bryant on Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 03:45:35AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 03:45:35AM -0600, Jim Bryant wrote: > In reply: > 270,000,000 americans are pissed. who the fuck are you to defy the > will of the american public, the ohter 4 billion 700 thousand odd that make up teh rest of teh REAL WORLD, i'd say we have a significant majority and we as a group are tired of this kind of scantemonius spew coming from yet another morally out raged amoreican have you guys not learnt yet thea the world is a big place and that 'meric is just as insignicifant a bit of it as any oher place. > stop violating OUR rights on OUR owned/rented property! 220+ years of > tested cases can not be wrong, and WILL be upheld. and teh rest of yurope has several thousand years of culture and lawyering experience .. big deal, its teh johny come ltatley at are teh biggest pains int eh bum .. thye constantly have to prove that tey are doing sometng, don't matter waht or to whom, either. > Posted: PRIVATE PROPERTY! you obviously don't know the laws of yor own land well enough, i' suggest you reread the bitts about copyright and ownership cheers .. take a moment to cool down, life isn;t wort all this greif. regards jonathan ps, please excuse bad spelling, i have dsylexia, sever neurological deficeits -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 07:09:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21476 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:09:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21470 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:08:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 101XLE-0000Uu-00; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:08:49 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA01814; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:05:55 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17832; Sat, 16 Jan 99 15:05:51 GMT Message-Id: <36A0AA7F.8BEB975C@uk.radan.com> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:04:31 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What are the advantages of ELF kernels? References: <199901150819.TAA06812@ska.bsn> <369F692C.C3D452C6@softweyr.com> <369F8803.81DB0359@uk.radan.com> <369FA811.A675DA24@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters wrote: > > Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > > I have two desktop machines, a SPARCstation 5 and a PII 266 running > > > FreeBSD. I still prefer the SPARCstation because it has a better > > > keyboard, but prefer FreeBSD to Slowlaris for everything else. Plus, > > > the FreeBSD machine is a LOT faster than the SPARC 5. ;^) > > > > I'll agree with the observation about the keyboard. Sun do a converter > > to allow you to use a PC keyboard with a Sun, shame they don't they do > > one that does the opposite :-(. > > > > FWIW, my K6-233 with FreeBSD 2.2.8 is lot faster than my Sparc10 (SunOS > > 4.1.3_U1), bith with 64MB. Mind you it's not a fair comparison, what was > > a top of the range PC when Sparc 5 & 10 were top Sun workstations?. > > That's the comparison you'd have to make. > > My home system is a K6/233, and it's a nice quick little beast too. It's > faster at some things than the PII/266, and slower at others. It also > has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, > but I can't find a local dealer that stocks them anymore. > > > BTW, as you're a Sun and FreeBSD user, do you know if it's possible to > > map the function keys in FreeBSD to perform the functions of L2 - L10 > > (don't really need L1 ;-) ) on a Sun Keyboard? > > In what? Most window managers will let you bind keystrokes to actions, > and it's certainly easy to do in Emacs. ;^) > In OpenLook (olvwm). I particularly want the Cut, Copy, Paste keys (quicker than using the pop-up menu in shelltool). The Open and Front keys would be nice too. I know there are escape sequences to perform the actions of these 2 keys but not as toggles, i.e. you need a separate keys for Front and Back. I've tried several ways of making the bindings without success, even though there are entries for ``Sun Copy'' etc in the keysym table. > -- > Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? > > Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 > Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. My homepage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com Radan Computational Ltd | http://www.radan.com Bath, England. CAD/CAM solutions | FreeBSD - The Power To Serve for the Sheetmetal Work industry.| http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 07:09:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21499 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21494 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:09:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 101XLU-0003Iw-00; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:09:05 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA01812; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:05:52 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17829; Sat, 16 Jan 99 15:05:48 GMT Message-Id: <36A0A953.F75520FC@uk.radan.com> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:59:31 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Frank Cc: Mike Nguyen , jcwells@u.washington.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: Good keyboards References: <199901160339.OAA16194@mirriwinni.cse.rmit.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tony Frank wrote: > > Hi, > > > My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones > > with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). They are made by > > Lexmark, I think. Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them > > whenever I can find a source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at > > home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, > > although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. > > Ahh yes... I've got several of these as well, though there are a couple that > have a slightly 'soft' button rather than the strong 'click' style. > > They came with a lot of the PS/2 systems, Model 30 & model 60 from memory.. > > Their newer win95 style keyboards are still alot nicer than many others > that I have used... > I'd agree about the IBM keyboards, except the clicking got on my nerves after a while (I never got to use a 'soft' one). The keyboards that HP _used_ to supply with their PC's were first rate, I would have preferred them to be raked a bit steeper though. For some reason (probably to reduce costs) they have replaced them with a really cheap, crappy thing reminiscent of the old Gateway keyboards. > -- > | Tony Frank | Mobile: +61-412-481-029 | > | | Fax: +61-3-9720-4672 | > | Trainee Support Engineer, Ericsson | Email: tony@pm.cse.rmit.edu.au | > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. My homepage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com Radan Computational Ltd | http://www.radan.com Bath, England. CAD/CAM solutions | FreeBSD - The Power To Serve for the Sheetmetal Work industry.| http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 11:01:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10705 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:01:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.jps.net (smtp2.jps.net [209.63.224.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10700 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:01:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from justins@jps.net) Received: from saruman (209-239-207-166.oak.jps.net [209.239.207.166]) by smtp2.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA15496; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:04:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990116105849.01e8c390@mail.softhome.net> X-Sender: justins@mail.jps.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:01:37 -0800 To: Mike Nguyen From: Justin Simms Subject: RE: Good keyboards Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You might also want to check at http://www.kahlon.com - they've got IBM PS/2 (lexmark) keyboards new for US $20. I just bought five. :-) This is the best price I've seen. Justin At 03:44 PM 1/15/99 -0600, you wrote: > >On 15-Jan-99 Jason C. Wells uttered: >> On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: >> >>>has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, >> >> I really like very nice tactile reponse of Powerbook keyboards as well as >> the low profile of the keys. Looking for keyboards on the net yileds me >> nothing but cheapo crap. I also tried converting to dvorak but the few >> keyboards I tried had a curve profile so the keys could not be moved. >> >> Who makes good keyboards? Where can I get them? > > >My favorite keyboard of all time are the IBM 101-key keyboards (the heavy ones >with the click, not the cheap stuff they give you now). They are made by >Lexmark, I think. Still available on RS/6000s, at least. I collect them >whenever I can find a source, I have four, two I use at work, two I use at >home. They're not cheap, though -- they seem to go for around $50 used, >although I managed to snag a couple for free. They also last forever. > >Mike. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Mike Nguyen - UNIX Sysadmin and Geek > Pager (800) SKY-8888 pin# 1138368 > or 1138368@skytel.com > >You never know how many friends you have until you rent a house on the >beach. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 14:13:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA28499 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:13:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from server1.cyberix.com (server1.cyberix.com [207.106.53.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28493 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:13:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: from billyjoebob (max1-ppp-21.cyberix.com [207.106.53.200]) by server1.cyberix.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA10077 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:08:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Brad Benson" To: Subject: subscribe freebsd-chat Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:13:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000601be4202$14e3e500$0a00a8c0@billyjoebob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE41D8.2C0DDD00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE41D8.2C0DDD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit subscribe freebsd-chat ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE41D8.2C0DDD00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE41D8.2C0DDD00-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 15:00:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA03565 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:00:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p69.tfs.net [139.146.210.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03492 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:00:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) id QAA28290; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:59:12 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199901162259.QAA28290@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] In-Reply-To: <19990117020152.A812@clear.co.nz> from Joe Abley at "Jan 17, 99 02:01:53 am" To: jabley@clear.co.nz (Joe Abley) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:59:07 -0600 (CST) Cc: jbryant@unix.tfs.net, jal@ThirdAge.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, dennis.moore@mail.house.gov, jabley@clear.co.nz, tlambert@primenet.com Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #46: Sun Dec 6 03:10:25 CST 1998 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply: > On Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 03:45:35AM -0600, Jim Bryant wrote: > > In reply: > > > > > [absurd uneducated anarchist crotch-rot rant deleted] > > > > > >to disagree with this is to admit that self-policing the internet [or > > > >anything else for that matter] is an utterly sophistic concept that > > > >needs to be relegated to the status of fairie tale. which, by the way > > > >is a circular concept anyhow, since to agree with my reasoning is to > > > >admit the same. at least i have enough moral character to admit it. > > > > > > What? You're not making any sense. > > > > what part did you not understand. self-regulation DOES NOT work, HAS > > NEVER worked, and WILL NEVER work. it is a historically sophistic > > concept. where there is no threat of punishment, there is no > > incentive to not do something. > > > > anarchists like you have made the internet a ROTTING CESSPOOL of > > criminal activity. every now and then the toilet does need flushed > > lest the whole house become diseased! > > > > [rest of shouting removed for the safety of others] because you are not american, you probably do not understand the meaning of what was said. what was said was a first step in the process. in our country we tend to treat criminals as such, and in most of our states, those who aid criminals are no different from the criminal himself, by law. i do tend to be direct, and some people are not equipped to handle direct speech. please excuse me if it sounded like shouting. any capitalization was intended to emphasize a point, and not to be shouting. > Your messages are interesting. I think you are both right, to a certain > extent. > > Jim: Apart from a token mention of other countries in one paragraph, you > presuppose that > > (a) the entire problem lies within the governance of a single entity, > namely the US no i don't. in every one of my messages, unless i missed one, i mention the need for clear treaties to be established, probably via the ITU. I'm not actually attempting to deal with the international problem at this point, we need to get the plank out of our eye before we get the splinter out of yours. i do realize of course, that the majority of OUR problem in the USA does originate here, even if it is being sent through international relay points. i also pointed out the fact that most other countries respect private property in the manner we do under their laws, and that the argument is applicable anywhere these laws and democracies exist. > (b) that there is a conceivable mechanism for enforcing any law outlawing > UCE i believe i already mentioned that there are federal laws in place here concerning private property issues. the penalties are in place. the methods of enforcement are many. but talk of the methods can happen later, we have more immediate problems here like overturning an unconstitutional law that allows them to invade our property. > Both these premises are faulty, in my opinion. > > The problem of spam is not new; all forms of communication suffer from it > in one way or other. The problem with e-mail spam is that it is incredibly > cheap to originate, and it costs recipients money to receive. exactly. this is why here in the USA we have either regulated in an intelligent way or banned altogether each form of spam except for on the internet. > For example, I get cold-called on my GSM phone when I am in other countries. > This costs me money much the same as the e-mail spam I receive costs me > money. It rarely happens, though, because it is expensive for the spammer > to do. here in the usa, making a telemarketing call to a celluar or pcs phone is illegal, and has a serious punishment associated with it. > There are three ways I can see to defeat the spammers: > > 1. Make it free to receive spam. Practically, the only way to accomplish > this is to make all inbound e-mail free. This isn't practical at > all. agreed, as stated in my last message on the subject. > 2. Make it expensive to send spam. Practically, this could only be done > by making it expensive to send all e-mail. This won't happen. agreed. that would be detrimental to the entire net. > 3. Implement a technical solution based on end-to-end signatures and/or > cryptography, so that unsolicited mail will never be accepted. This would > effectively make spam pointless, since the target audience is removed. terry used this argument. such a solution would require standardization, many years to implement, as well as the finding unconstitutional of our current law based on property rights issues. to do this before such a ruling would result in massive restraint of trade lawsuits that could only be defended by using the private property case and making the current law unconstitutional. how long will it be before a way is found around this solution by spammers? once they do that, we are back where we started. they have found ways around everything else we can throw at them. i also believe that implementation on a national scale would also be more expensive than a legal solution with adequate enforcement methods and budgets. it would be totally ineffective to do this unless it was mandated by law, see my argument concerning why we have the current problems because of "voluntary self-regulation" and the lack of anyone volunteering to do it effectively. where there is no legal or financial incentive for change, change does not happen. this is fundamental to human nature. this principle dates as far back as Hammurabi [sp?], and is the time tested and valid reason we have laws and enforcement in every country on this planet. i seriously doubt if this solution can be implemented on such a large scale as to replace the current protocol standards for transferring email anytime in the next ten to twenty years even if mandated by law. the current installed base is just too large to make such a change any faster, especially given that no standards yet exist for such a solution. think about the sheer numbers and sheer cost involved. if it is a voluntary solution, it could take upwards of thirty to fifty years to implement globally. keep in mind that certain network providers and service providers are part of the problem that we are trying to deal with. i'm not writing off this idea. i'm just saying that more immediate solutions can be had inside of three to five years on an international scale, this assumes that nothing will be done to solve the problem by the current right wing majority in our house and senate, and that they get kicked out next election. we can work on mop-up later. using end-to-end cryptographic certificates is a great mop-up solution, but assuming that my timeline for start of work on the legal issues is correct, the legal road will solve the bulk of the problem a full fifteen to twenty-five years before the practical global implementation of such a transport is realized, and backward compatability with SMTP phased out. such a transport is the natural progression of mail transport, but please be realistic when projecting timelines for FULL global implementation. realize that until such FULL global implementation is achieved, FULL backwards compatability with SMTP will be mandated. SMTP has it's shortcomings in the modern age. it's day will come, not soon, but it will come. I remember a guy who said that not one single line of COBOL will exist by 1990... how many lines of COBOL have been upgraded to last until at least the year 9999 or later within the last few years? how hard is it going to be to change the standard that the entire world uses for email? re-think your argument. it's easier and cheaper in the short term to make laws, and enforce them on a global scale through treaties. let's make them now, they won't have to be as harsh now as they will be if the problem continues snowballing for another thirty years. especially since in another thirty or fourty years most countries will need to implement more radical laws, such as madatory family planning. there is no sense in making things harder than they have to be. this assumes that right wing nationalist factions everywhere don't take care of the problem by having armageddon first, which is exactly where conservative and right wing policies in many countries are heading [especially here], either through design or ignorance [hard to tell]. just like spam, there are two camps in the population control argument too. the ones that want to do it the easy way [family planning], or the hard way [Planet of the Apes]. > If the internet is indeed a "rotting cesspool of criminal activity", then > it will not be improved by treating the symptoms - you need to attack the > cause. > > If it is technically possible for spam to be sent, it will be sent. This > is the nature of humanity, and no amount of moral posturing or regional > lawmaking will stop it. that's why we build courthouses and prisons. that's why you build courthouses and prisons. how did your country get it's start? [i'm not attempting to bash your country by saying that, i think aussies are great people, i'm just making a point] > I have copied your senator, or congressman, or whoever you said he was. House Representative = Congressman = like your MP. Our senators from Kansas are part of the problem, and thus not included here. > My message to him is unsolicited. I am not (nor have I ever been) a US > citizen. What facet of US law is stopping me from doing this? What possible > future US law could stop me? none, but a treaty can. and countries have ways of forcing treaty breaking countries to comply. in this case, i'm sure my congressman would not mind. how else can lawmakers make intelligent laws, unless they understand the issues, and the scale of a problem. > Is there any practical difference between this letter, and its content, > and another message I might have chosen to send advertising some pyramid > sales scheme? Again, which current or future US law could indict me? yes, there is a difference. i copied the message yours is in reference to to my congressman. diverse views are needed in any debate. had you chosen to spam him with unsolicited commercial email, there may be a related treaty that can be used, even if there is not a specific treaty in place. also, what are your laws on the subject, if your country already has such laws, you would be guilty of them for doing so, notification could be easy. there is a need for specific treaties to be negotiated, and put into place. a direct non-proxy opt-in law, with adequate enforcement provisions is simple to implement, both at the treaty level, as well as in all signatory countries. non-signatory countries, could possibly lose access under such a treaty. > Lawers and government will not save us from spam. That will only happen > by the application of thought from software engineers and protocol > architects. i'm still waiting for IPv6.... Well? When?! No legal mandate, no incentive to take action, no action taken. human nature. i predict that full implementation of IPv6 on a global scale will take many years, and will be fought every step of the way by criminals with a lot of money that don't want to be easily traced every time they commit a criminal act. how far off is this from the truth? talk to me in thirty years, don't be surprised if i just cut and paste this paragraph as the reply, as it will probably be as true then as it is now. Private property laws can easily be extended to the internet, and to do so is merely the natural progression of those laws into today's way of life and conducting business. If Denial of Service [DoS] attacks can be made illegal and enforced against, so can spam. The fundamental legal principles behind each are the same. any non-communist non-feudal democracy on this planet probably has the laws in place already, they just have to be extended to a new type of private property. i've been on the internet since the early-mid eighties. i once supported collaboration, and self-regulation. back in those days, it was something that was actually got done because the scale of the problem was miniscule, and the government heavily regulated the internet here. such heavy regulation did nothing detrimental, and actaully made the internet a decent place to excercise free speech and to collaborate. i'm man enough to admit that the problem is out of hand now to the point that such voluntary solutions are no longer valid to solve the problem at the large scale it's at today. back then if a country was causing a problem, all we had to do was flip a switch on a single line card, and they were off of the net for the duration. the same thing could have been done to a university or contractor. the rules have changed, the scale has changed, now doing that is impossible. the internet is now on it's feet. time to potty train it. a society that does not adapt it's methods of dealing with it's misfits as the society itself changes and grows is a society on the way to it's own destruction. do you have a kid? if you don't discipline your kid for doing wrongful acts as he grows up, what do you end up with? another person to feed in maximum security on a life sentance. what happens when you have a whole society raised the same way? Planet of the Apes. this is a juncture moment for the internet, the good wanting something done still outnumber vastly the bad who are keeping it from being done in their own self-interest. we can take care of it the right way, or we can take care of it the wrong way. how we take care of it now effects the outcome. i would rather have intelligent laws and enforcement now, than draconian laws with brutal enforcement later. remember, this is not a debate on if serious regulation of the internet will take place, rest assured, it will be seriously regulated. solving the problems now is a lot easier and cheaper taxwise than solving them later. this is what is called a sound fiscal spending policy. waiting until later, and spending hundreds or thousands of times more to solve the problem is called unsound fiscal spending policy. waiting decades until some pie-in-the-sky undefined protocol is implemented on a global scale with complete backwards compatability phase-out, using it as the sole cure, and spending tens of thousands of times as much money to do so, just to have it suddenly bypassed by the criminal element, is absurdity. you start with nothing, you end with nothing, what have you solved? nothing! effective laws and effective enforcement of those laws is lasting, and has the benefit of the psychological side effect of making the criminals think about the consequences, and possibly changing their mind before they act. a new grand security system is merely a temporary setback to a cracker. "DDD DDD DDD DE H.M.S. TITANIC. HIT ICEBURG, SINKING. DDD DDD DDD" there is no single solution. laws, treaties, and real enforcement in the near term is the cheapest, and most effective way to solve the MAJORITY of the problem. new technology will be key to the final solution, but we have got to be realistic concerning it's implementation schedule, cost, and the fact that it is not the key to solving the vast majority of the problem. both methods together can be an effective combination. you can work on the Titanic, while I will push the legal issues, and I'm sure we can meet in the middle, in the near future [at least on the legal issues]. it'll never be "Leave it to Beaver", but let's pray it doesn't devolve to "Planet of the Apes". what it amounts to is the question: what do we want the world of our grandkids to be like? while at the same time realizing that by the time they are my age the global population will be somewhere between 12 and 16 billion people, possibly much higher, or possibly as low as the dark ages if certain things are allowed to continue. did you just hand over your lunch money to the schoolyard bully as a kid? i didn't. i hope you didn't either. in the mean time, and back on subject: please support a commented forwarding line in the spam filters in sendmail.cf to forward unsolicited commercial email automatically to uce@ftc.gov, as they have requested. if you are not american, you can change the address to one of your government's agencies, or just leave it commented. if your government is not researching the scope of this problem, you need to make them aware, if you don't, you WILL end up with either laws that are inadequate, or laws that are too harsh on the innocent. it's a simple and straightforward request being made by a federal agency here in the USA that wants to help solve some of the immediate problems IN OUR COUNTRY. it's a simple change to sendmail.cf. [reality check mode on] i'm surprised to find so much opposition to helping a government agency in it's constitutional duties from the americans on this mailing list. kind of hypocritical i think, in light of the fact that the majority of people propagating the "self-regulation" sophistry seem to be talking so much about "constitutional duties", upholding the law, and such, these days. if everyone could be trusted to do the right thing on their own, then we wouldn't need locks, security systems, laws, enforcement, drug sniffers, bomb sniffers, nuclear/biological/chemical warfare & terrorism response teams, domestic terrorism task forces, international terrorism task forces, technological crimes task forces, courthouses, jails, prisons, death penalties, guns, police, FBI, CIA, Secret Serice, NSA, armies, navies, air forces, marines, nukes, ad nausium... and neither would any other country. WELCOME TO REALITY. [reality check mode off] jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 15:12:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04487 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:12:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (mail.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04480 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:12:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Received: from plutotech.com (tampopo.plutotech.com [206.168.67.161]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA16892; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:12:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kelly@plutotech.com) Message-ID: <36A11CC6.C1EEC016@plutotech.com> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:12:06 -0700 From: Sean Kelly Organization: Pluto Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens CC: Wes Peters , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What are the advantages of ELF kernels? References: <199901150819.TAA06812@ska.bsn> <369F692C.C3D452C6@softweyr.com> <369F8803.81DB0359@uk.radan.com> <369FA811.A675DA24@softweyr.com> <36A0AA7F.8BEB975C@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The Open and Front keys would be nice too. Ah, my beloved Open and Front keys! I could not live without them. I approximate them in fvwm2 with these lines in my .fvwm2rc: Key Print WFST N RaiseLower Key Scroll_Lock WISTF N Iconify So, [Print Scrn] acts as the Front, and [Scroll Lock] acts as the Open. --Sean To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 16:43:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14304 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:43:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14299 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:43:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id NAA19798; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:42:50 +1300 (NZDT) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA01956; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:42:49 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from jabley) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:42:49 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: Jim Bryant Cc: jal@ThirdAge.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, dennis.moore@mail.house.gov, tlambert@primenet.com, jabley@clear.co.nz Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] Message-ID: <19990117134249.B1870@clear.co.nz> References: <19990117020152.A812@clear.co.nz> <199901162259.QAA28290@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199901162259.QAA28290@unix.tfs.net>; from Jim Bryant on Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 04:59:07PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 04:59:07PM -0600, Jim Bryant wrote: > > [snip!] > > because you are not american, you probably do not understand the > meaning of what was said. And whoever suggested that Americans were arrogant? :) > [snip!] > > > (b) that there is a conceivable mechanism for enforcing any law outlawing > > UCE > > i believe i already mentioned that there are federal laws in place > here concerning private property issues. the penalties are in place. > > the methods of enforcement are many. but talk of the methods can > happen later, we have more immediate problems here like overturning an > unconstitutional law that allows them to invade our property. The methods of evading enforcement are also many. I understand your point that a law, no matter how ineffectual in practice, can act as a deterrant. However, I am far from convinced that this will make any practical difference to the amount of spam that flows around - anonyminity is too easy to come by on the net. > > 3. Implement a technical solution based on end-to-end signatures and/or > > cryptography, so that unsolicited mail will never be accepted. This would > > effectively make spam pointless, since the target audience is removed. > > terry used this argument. > > such a solution would require standardization, many years to > implement, as well as the finding unconstitutional of our current law > based on property rights issues. to do this before such a ruling > would result in massive restraint of trade lawsuits that could only be > defended by using the private property case and making the current law > unconstitutional. You are making an assumption that what is needed is radically different from what we have today. In fact, we already have 90% of what we need to accomplish this. Nobody needs to supplant SMTP - that's why I talked about end-to-end signatures. As far as rolling out new protocols, the reality is that all it would take to make 90% of the internet immune to spam is for Microsoft and the other major suppliers of client e-mail software to release a version which checked signatures before accepting mail. You also need a coherent global directory for signatures. Several approaches have been well documented (including those based on the DNS). There is no reason to suppose that one of these could not be rolled out very quickly with suitable encouragement from mail client suppliers. > how long will it be before a way is found around this solution by > spammers? once they do that, we are back where we started. they have > found ways around everything else we can throw at them. The answer to that question has a mathemetical solution. It is always possible that a one-way cryptographic hash function will be compromised; however I would submit that a technical solution still has a far better chance of affecting the reality of the solution than a regional legal one. > i also believe that implementation on a national scale would also be > more expensive than a legal solution with adequate enforcement methods > and budgets. it would be totally ineffective to do this unless it was > mandated by law, see my argument concerning why we have the current > problems because of "voluntary self-regulation" and the lack of anyone > volunteering to do it effectively. Does most of the living, breathing world use Microsoft operating systems by force of law? No - they use them by force of marketing. If Microsoft popularise and market a cryptographic mail interface within the OS there is every reason to think that the uptake would be swift. After all, who would have thought that people would bother with the effort of upgrading to windows 98 from 95, given the rather slim change in functionality involved? You underestimate peoples' desire to stay current. > where there is no legal or financial incentive for change, change does > not happen. CIDR, VLSM and corresponding practices in IP address allocation? There was no legal mandate for that - just a technical problem and a technical solution. > [snip!] > > that's why we build courthouses and prisons. that's why you build > courthouses and prisons. how did your country get it's start? [i'm > not attempting to bash your country by saying that, i think aussies > are great people, i'm just making a point] Grr - I am from New Zealand. Buy an atlas. > [snip!] > > i'm still waiting for IPv6.... Well? When?! http://www.6bone.net/ - there are networks in 30-40 countries now participating in the first global rollout of IPv6, and the 6bone is fast becoming much less a developers' playpen than a production network. There is content today that is not reachable from an IPv4 connected machine. > i predict that full implementation of IPv6 on a global scale will take > many years, and will be fought every step of the way by criminals with > a lot of money that don't want to be easily traced every time they > commit a criminal act. how far off is this from the truth? Pretty far, I think. Why do you think IPv6 helps trace criminal activity? > [snip!] > > Private property laws can easily be extended to the internet, and to > do so is merely the natural progression of those laws into today's > way of life and conducting business. What existing private property law (or treaty) covers the abuse of property owned by a foreign national, in her own country, when the perpetrator committed his abuse from outside the victim's borders, without ever making personal contact with the victim, or physical contact with the victim's property? Especially if the perpetrator cannot physically be found? > If Denial of Service [DoS] attacks can be made illegal and enforced > against, so can spam. True. Although in most cases there is no way to even trace the source of a DoS attack where the source address has been effectively spoofed, never mind enforce against them. > [snip!] > > back then if a country was causing a problem, all we had to do was > flip a switch on a single line card, and they were off of the net for > the duration. Perhaps the rest of the world should take this approach with the US? ;) After all, the US represents a minority in userbase and content compared with the rest of the global network... > [snip! snip! snip!] > > i'm surprised to find so much opposition to helping a government > agency in it's constitutional duties from the americans on this > mailing list. kind of hypocritical i think, in light of the fact that > the majority of people propagating the "self-regulation" sophistry > seem to be talking so much about "constitutional duties", upholding > the law, and such, these days. I think the issue is that nobody really believes that the government department in question is (or can, practically) do anything with the messages they receive apart from count them. The mechanism for counting you are a proponent of is very inefficient, and if globally followed would double the wasted bandwidth on the network due to spam. How does this help the problem? > [snip!] > > we wouldn't need locks, security systems, laws, enforcement, drug > sniffers, bomb sniffers, nuclear/biological/chemical warfare & > terrorism response teams, domestic terrorism task forces, > international terrorism task forces, technological crimes task forces, > courthouses, jails, prisons, death penalties, guns, police, FBI, CIA, > Secret Serice, NSA, armies, navies, air forces, marines, nukes, ad > nausium... and neither would any other country. We don't need (or have) most of the items on this list. Perhaps, again, you are confusing reality with a US-centric world-view? Speaking of reality, I post to a number of lists and newsgroups without disguising my real e-mail address. My correct e-mail address is in the RIPE, APNIC, ARIN and InterNIC databases. I was, until my previous employer got their act together and finally changed the records, technical and/or administrative contact for about 2000 domains. I get about 80 to 100 non-list e-mails on an average day - e-mails addressed to me, requiring my attention. On average I get about 3 or 4 UCEs, which I relay back to providers via abuse.net. The most I have ever got was about 15, but that was pretty unusual. This just isn't a big problem for me. If it was, I would apply mail filters to organise the disposal of spam automatically. In fact, the telemarketers who call my phone at home are a much bigger problem, and I only get three-four of those per week. If it's not a problem for me, given the distribution of my e-mail address in newsgroups and public databases around the world, who _is_ it a problem for? > WELCOME TO REALITY. Hi. Nice to be here. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 17:16:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16504 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:16:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16499 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:16:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05297; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:15:13 -0800 (PST) To: Joe Abley cc: Jim Bryant , jal@ThirdAge.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, dennis.moore@mail.house.gov, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:42:49 +1300." <19990117134249.B1870@clear.co.nz> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:15:12 -0800 Message-ID: <5293.916535712@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think this whole thread is a waste of space and has been since Jim started it. Yes, I'm sorry Jim, but I see this entire argument as having done little more than set new records for arrogance and stupidity. Perhaps that was not your intention, but that's what I've seen so far. *Shrug*. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 17:55:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA19073 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA19068 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:55:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA28153; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:56:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990117125655.B28086@caamora.com.au> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:56:55 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What are the advantages of ELF kernels? Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199901150819.TAA06812@ska.bsn> <369F692C.C3D452C6@softweyr.com> <369F8803.81DB0359@uk.radan.com> <369FA811.A675DA24@softweyr.com> <36A0AA7F.8BEB975C@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <36A0AA7F.8BEB975C@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 03:04:31PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 03:04:31PM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > > > > I have two desktop machines, a SPARCstation 5 and a PII 266 running > > > > FreeBSD. I still prefer the SPARCstation because it has a better > > > > keyboard, but prefer FreeBSD to Slowlaris for everything else. Plus, > > > > the FreeBSD machine is a LOT faster than the SPARC 5. ;^) > > > > > > I'll agree with the observation about the keyboard. Sun do a converter > > > to allow you to use a PC keyboard with a Sun, shame they don't they do > > > one that does the opposite :-(. > > > > > > FWIW, my K6-233 with FreeBSD 2.2.8 is lot faster than my Sparc10 (SunOS > > > 4.1.3_U1), bith with 64MB. Mind you it's not a fair comparison, what was > > > a top of the range PC when Sparc 5 & 10 were top Sun workstations?. > > > That's the comparison you'd have to make. > > > > My home system is a K6/233, and it's a nice quick little beast too. It's > > faster at some things than the PII/266, and slower at others. It also > > has a very nice keyboard made by NMB, say 95% as good as the Sun Type 5, > > but I can't find a local dealer that stocks them anymore. > > > > > BTW, as you're a Sun and FreeBSD user, do you know if it's possible to > > > map the function keys in FreeBSD to perform the functions of L2 - L10 > > > (don't really need L1 ;-) ) on a Sun Keyboard? > > > > In what? Most window managers will let you bind keystrokes to actions, > > and it's certainly easy to do in Emacs. ;^) > > > > In OpenLook (olvwm). I particularly want the Cut, Copy, Paste keys you got this to work .. i;ve tried ever since i found teh bits spread over teh x11 ddirectory on teh packages cd. a quick walk through woukd be apreciatred, please. i'm sure i've missed bits or done thngs wrong, more likely missed relevant chunks. regards and thanks in advance cheers jonathan -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 16 19:10:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24858 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:10:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24851 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:10:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id EAA01569 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:10:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 724371574; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:06:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:06:07 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Forward all spam to UCE@FTC.GOV [please take to -chat] Message-ID: <19990117010607.A71122@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19990115143915.03abd400@mail.thirdage.com> <199901160945.DAA54755@unix.tfs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199901160945.DAA54755@unix.tfs.net>; from Jim Bryant on Sat, Jan 16, 1999 at 03:45:35AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#4931 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Jim Bryant: > [absurd uneducated anarchist crotch-rot rant deleted] You've got to remain polite please. > anarchists like you have made the internet a ROTTING CESSPOOL of > criminal activity. every now and then the toilet does need flushed > lest the whole house become diseased! No need to call names here. Anarchism is in a way what made Internet, not any regulation whatsoever. > constitutionally tested limitations. i understand your opposition to > laws, as laws are the criminal's worst enemy. Which constitution ? Which laws ? How to you plan to apply your consti- tution to me in France ? How do you plan to enforce your laws on me ? Some people are very short-sighted sometimes. The Internet is no more US than it is French or Russian, don't you know that ? [ long rant cut ] Sheech. Too much time on your hands haven't you ? -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #67: Tue Dec 29 20:24:02 CET 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message