From owner-freebsd-net Sun Jan 24 09:57:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28126 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:57:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from netserver.pth.com (ip155.cgs.primenet.com [206.165.121.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28119 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:57:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paul@pth.com) Received: from pentium.pth.com ([192.42.172.3] helo=pentium) by netserver.pth.com with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 104Tml-0002Lz-00 for freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:57:23 -0500 X-Mailer: PopOver 2.0.131b (Windows NT; i386) From: "Paul T. Haddad" Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:54:12 -0500 To: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Lost first packet with kernel PPP and demand option Message-ID: <9901241254.AA127341@pentium> X-Image-URL: http://www.primenet.com/~pault/paul.tiff Received: by NeXT.Mailer (PopOver.2.0.131b.RR) Status: X-Status: Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I have pppd running with the demand option and a 10 minute timeout. The first packet used to bring up the connection never gets to its destination, everything else works fine. Is there an easy way to fix this? Does user ppp have this problem? --- Paul Haddad To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 00:45:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12386 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:45:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12381 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:45:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA05890; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma005885; Mon, 25 Jan 99 00:45:06 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA29731; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:45:06 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901250845.AAA29731@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: netgraph web page To: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:45:06 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've put together a little web page for netgraph, and updated the tarball with new PPP and Van Jacobsen compression node types. ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/archie/netgraph/index.html Lemme know if there are any questions, problems, etc.. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 01:10:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA14935 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:10:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA14930 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:10:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA01667; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdQp1665; Mon Jan 25 09:06:54 1999 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:06:52 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Archie Cobbs cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph web page In-Reply-To: <199901250845.AAA29731@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well I'm a bit depressed this weekend. I couldn't do any work and basically just wtched TV all weekend and WATCHED you work. I know that I've said it before, but I've had to stop trying to be a friend to Gabi. She seems to only able to have me in her life as a boyfriend/potential-hsusband or not at all. Since we agreed several months ago that we were not staying together, I tried to do the friend thing, but that has only led to a slippery slope back together. So since Wednesday I've broken contact entirely. I' rahter depressed however and not really in a good coding frame of mind.. just a "FYI".... as I said, make a symlink (as I did) from netgraph.tgz to the real one. My web page on freefall points there.. You can also make a web page there by making the directory "public_html" in your home there. (hmm I see you already have done that) oh well.. maybe I can get to sleep.. julian On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > I've put together a little web page for netgraph, and updated > the tarball with new PPP and Van Jacobsen compression node types. > > ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/archie/netgraph/index.html > > Lemme know if there are any questions, problems, etc.. > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 01:20:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA15997 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:20:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA15992 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:20:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA01821; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdsG1817; Mon Jan 25 09:15:43 1999 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:15:41 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Archie Cobbs cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph web page In-Reply-To: <199901250845.AAA29731@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org awesome html page, and cripes I didn't realise this went to freebsd-net.. did I just respond to this previously to everybody with a private email? *hit's head against wall* On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > I've put together a little web page for netgraph, and updated > the tarball with new PPP and Van Jacobsen compression node types. > > ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/archie/netgraph/index.html > > Lemme know if there are any questions, problems, etc.. > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 19:08:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10202 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:08:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.elpn.com (ns1.elpn.com [209.194.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10192 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rosteen@elpn.com) Received: from elpn.com (cox.com [206.98.143.200]) by ns1.elpn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05453 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:59:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rosteen@elpn.com) Message-ID: <36AD3186.3D9D6CD6@elpn.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:07:50 -0500 From: username Reply-To: rosteen@elpn.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: device error Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org pcap_open_live: /dev/bpf0: Device not configured Has anyone seen this before? If so, what did you do to fix it? Also, how can I "remove" this device.... ??? Thanks again (for the help the first time and now one more time) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 19:50:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA18693 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:50:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns11.nokia.com (ns11.nokia.com [131.228.6.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA18673 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:50:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yu.shi@research.nokia.com) Received: from pepper.research.nokia.com (pepper.research.nokia.com [131.228.12.3]) by ns11.nokia.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA02673; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:49:57 +0200 (EET) Received: from pupu.research.nokia.com (pupu.research.nokia.com [131.228.13.130]) by pepper.research.nokia.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA29270; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:49:56 +0200 (EET) Received: from research.nokia.com ([172.28.31.90]) by pupu.research.nokia.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA13646; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:47:12 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <36AD3B36.B71949A8@research.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:49:10 +0800 From: Shi Yu Reply-To: yu.shi@research.nokia.com Organization: Nokia China X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: EXT username CC: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: device error References: <36AD3186.3D9D6CD6@elpn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I do not know exactly, but have you enable the bpf pseudo device in kernel configuration? EXT username wrote: > pcap_open_live: /dev/bpf0: Device not configured > > Has anyone seen this before? If so, what did you do to fix it? Also, how > can I "remove" this device.... ??? > > Thanks again (for the help the first time and now one more time) > > Rick > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 20:14:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22546 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:14:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22539 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:14:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24224; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:14:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36AD4127.3182C3AE@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:14:31 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rosteen@elpn.com CC: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: device error References: <36AD3186.3D9D6CD6@elpn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org username wrote: > > pcap_open_live: /dev/bpf0: Device not configured > > Has anyone seen this before? If so, what did you do to fix it? Also, how > can I "remove" this device.... ??? Why would you want to remove it, the program is already complaining about it not being there. If you want to use the program in question, you'll need to configure and compile a new kernel with at least one bpf device. If you don't know how to do this, read the handbook. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 20:21:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23627 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:21:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.elpn.com (ns1.elpn.com [209.194.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23621 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:21:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rosteen@elpn.com) Received: from elpn.com (cox.com [206.98.143.200]) by ns1.elpn.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA05552; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:11:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rosteen@elpn.com) Message-ID: <36AD4276.56EF290A@elpn.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:20:06 -0500 From: username Reply-To: rosteen@elpn.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters CC: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: device error References: <36AD3186.3D9D6CD6@elpn.com> <36AD4127.3182C3AE@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks for the heads up guys! Rick Wes Peters wrote: > username wrote: > > > > pcap_open_live: /dev/bpf0: Device not configured > > > > Has anyone seen this before? If so, what did you do to fix it? Also, how > > can I "remove" this device.... ??? > > Why would you want to remove it, the program is already complaining > about it not being there. > > If you want to use the program in question, you'll need to configure > and compile a new kernel with at least one bpf device. If you don't > know how to do this, read the handbook. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 20:45:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA28186 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:45:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.ptt.ru ([195.34.0.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA28181 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:45:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voux@iname.com) Received: (qmail 9305 invoked from network); 26 Jan 1999 04:45:22 -0000 Received: from dialup-29118.dialup.ptt.ru (195.34.29.118) by dialup.ptt.ru with SMTP; 26 Jan 1999 04:45:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:47:03 +0300 (MSK) From: voux X-Sender: voux@hedgehog.shadow.net To: username cc: Wes Peters , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: device error In-Reply-To: <36AD4276.56EF290A@elpn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You should to add line to your kernel config file: pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter then recompile your kernel. On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, username wrote: > Thanks for the heads up guys! > Rick > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > username wrote: > > > > > > pcap_open_live: /dev/bpf0: Device not configured > > > > > > Has anyone seen this before? If so, what did you do to fix it? Also, how > > > can I "remove" this device.... ??? > > > > Why would you want to remove it, the program is already complaining > > about it not being there. > > > > If you want to use the program in question, you'll need to configure > > and compile a new kernel with at least one bpf device. If you don't > > know how to do this, read the handbook. > > > > -- > > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Mon Jan 25 21:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA06687 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:51:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns10.nokia.com (ns10.nokia.com [131.228.6.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA06664 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:51:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yu.shi@research.nokia.com) Received: from pepper.research.nokia.com (pepper.research.nokia.com [131.228.12.3]) by ns10.nokia.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA07265; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:51:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from pupu.research.nokia.com (pupu.research.nokia.com [131.228.13.130]) by pepper.research.nokia.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA01118; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:51:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from research.nokia.com ([172.28.31.90]) by pupu.research.nokia.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA15014; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:46:50 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <36AD5742.F09FDC95@research.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:48:50 +0800 From: Shi Yu Reply-To: yu.shi@research.nokia.com Organization: Nokia China X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: EXT voux CC: username , Wes Peters , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: device error References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes, exactly. Then, after system rebooting, if you want more then one bpf devices, cd /dev ./MAKEDEV bpf1,bpf2,bpf3 EXT voux wrote: > You should to add line to your kernel config file: > pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter > then recompile your kernel. > > On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, username wrote: > > > Thanks for the heads up guys! > > Rick > > > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > username wrote: > > > > > > > > pcap_open_live: /dev/bpf0: Device not configured > > > > > > > > Has anyone seen this before? If so, what did you do to fix it? Also, how > > > > can I "remove" this device.... ??? > > > > > > Why would you want to remove it, the program is already complaining > > > about it not being there. > > > > > > If you want to use the program in question, you'll need to configure > > > and compile a new kernel with at least one bpf device. If you don't > > > know how to do this, read the handbook. > > > > > > -- > > > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > > > > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > > > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Tue Jan 26 04:39:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA26682 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 04:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA26677 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 04:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA00501; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:27:37 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199901261027.LAA00501@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: World's smallest Web server.... (fwd) To: net@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:27:37 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Perhaps this (from http-wg@hplb.hpl.hp.com) is of interest to this list... i guess PicoBSD would run fairly well on said hardware. cheers luigi > Resent-Sender: http-wg-request@hplb.hpl.hp.com > > Anyone top this one? http://wearables.stanford.edu/ > > And of course, it speaks HTTP/1.1... > > The Stanford gadget looks smaller > than Itsy (see: http://www.research.digital.com/wrl/itsy/index.html), > which has a display, on the other hand. > Itsy runs off of triple A cells, at much lower power..., > so Itsy is clearly the champ on hits/joule... > > > - Jim > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Tue Jan 26 10:03:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08180 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:03:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08175 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:03:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA27215; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:03:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:03:05 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Julian Elischer cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph new version In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Julian-- This all sounds great to me. I was wondering if you had had a chance to test performance changes as a result of the structural changes? I have not had a chance to look at the implementation, but I look forward to the chance :). On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > A prerelease version is available at: > The release version is waiting for 'make world' to work again, so > We can do our last tests on it. This is substantially production quality > code, as we have spent a week cleaning and preening. > > ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/archie/misc/netgraph.tgz > > This file includes a USEFUL README file, a tar file of new files and a > patch file to change existing files.. (including a patch to netstat to > allow it to report netgraph 'socket' nodes.) > > Man pages for all the node types > > patches to if_sr.c and if_ar.c compile cleanly and give examples of how a > sync card should be interfaced.. (if_ar.c is easier to understand) (these > cannot be tested as we don't have those cards, but the netgraph code has > been tested with our own proprietary card) > > All nodes except the sync cards can be loaded as KLD modules > however to compile the sync cards in you also need the base netgraph > module in the kernel. > > requires newest version of uipc_domain.c and domian.h > > If you want to test it without the sync cards, you can load the whole > thing into a new kernel as modules and try it from there. > > You should read the man pages: > netgraph(4) > ng_socket > netgraph(3) > ngctl(8) > nghook(8) > ng_{other tyes} > > probably in that order > > The following modules are supplied: > base - the base framework. > UI - simple node t add/strip "Un-numbered Information" header (0x03) > async - do rfc 1662 framing/unframing on a packet > cisco - 'cisco' hdlc framing and protocol. > echo - echoes packets back at sender > hole - blackhole (discard device) > iface - netgraph node on one side, regular interface on the other > rfc1490 - rfc1490 frame-relay protocol encapsulation > lmi - frame relay link management protocol handler. > frame-relay - frame-relay channel multiplexor/demultiplexor > socket - netgraph node on one side, socket on the other > tee - assist debugging by tapping a link > tty - netgraph node on one side, tty line disciplin on the other. > > plus: > if_sr.c, if_ar.c patches to make these netgraph capable. > > ppp - unfinished ppp node > vjc - unfinished van-jacobson compression node > > patches are also available for mpd to allow mpd to run multilink ppp > into a netgraph socket. (not supplied) > > Netgraph is designed to allow quick development of production quality > modules that can be re-used in such environments as ATM, fram-relay, ppp, > async-ppp, ISDN. > > Each module knows how to do ONE thing. you hook them together to do more. > > julian > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Tue Jan 26 13:34:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03522 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:34:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03496 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:34:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA274325342; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:42:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:42:22 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola Cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: device error In-Reply-To: <36AD3B36.B71949A8@research.nokia.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Shi Yu wrote: > > pcap_open_live: /dev/bpf0: Device not configured FYI - If my SGML is correct, revision 1.19 of doc/FAQ/network.sgml contains an entry which should answer the above bpf [frequently asked] question. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Tue Jan 26 16:14:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24584 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:14:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24577 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:14:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA03549 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdnO3541; Wed Jan 27 00:10:54 1999 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:10:48 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Netgraph sync card success.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In case others had been wondering John Hay proved that out blind patches to the if_sr driver do work, and he is able to use netgraph to communicate. The problems were mostly to do with configuration. On another note, do we have anyone who can test other sync cards? The driver for if_ar.c has been also reworked for netgraph but we have no testers. Are there ay other sync card owners who would like their driver's modified? I can probably do a driver on about 30 minutes. On another topic, does anyone have any ideas of node tyoes that they think we should implement? We completed the pp and vjc nodes in the latest snapshot. I've been thinking about the possibility of a NAT node.. and wondered if it wouldn't be possible to make a node that could do the ipfw operations on packets at the level where IP packets are being passed around netgraph. Just ideas.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 02:11:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24042 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 02:11:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from opi.flirtbox.ch ([62.48.0.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA24029 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 02:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oppermann@pipeline.ch) Received: (qmail 83530 invoked from network); 27 Jan 1999 10:10:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pipeline.ch) (195.134.128.41) by opi.flirtbox.ch with SMTP; 27 Jan 1999 10:10:39 -0000 Message-ID: <36AEE5FF.6321551E@pipeline.ch> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:10:07 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Julian Elischer wrote: > > In case others had been wondering John Hay proved that out blind patches > to the if_sr driver do work, and he is able to use netgraph to > communicate. The problems were mostly to do with configuration. > > On another note, do we have anyone who can test other sync cards? > The driver for if_ar.c has been also reworked for netgraph but we have no > testers. Are there ay other sync card owners who would like their driver's > modified? I can probably do a driver on about 30 minutes. I have some ar cards here but no free port on my Cisco's at the moment. *sigh* Anyway, how do I run SyncPPP on that? > On another topic, does anyone have any ideas of node tyoes that they think > we should implement? We completed the pp and vjc nodes in the latest > snapshot. > > I've been thinking about the possibility of a NAT node.. > and wondered if it wouldn't be possible to make a node that could do the > ipfw operations on packets at the level where IP packets are being passed > around netgraph. > > Just ideas.. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 05:01:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12127 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:01:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tomcat.webber.net.ua (S2-1.GWN-KVC2.ukrpack.net [195.230.151.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12120 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:01:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from apl@webber.net.ua) Received: from opera.webber.net.ua (toor@opera.webber.net.ua [195.230.145.41]) by tomcat.webber.net.ua (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07348 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:01:11 +0200 (EET) Received: from webber.net.ua (apl@opera.webber.net.ua [195.230.145.41]) by opera.webber.net.ua (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA17047 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:01:31 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <36AF0D2D.10E0BA78@webber.net.ua> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:57:17 +0200 From: Andrew Petrenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Connecting from FreeBSD-3.0 to Novell Netware 4.11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello world! Can i connect from FreeBSD-3.0 to Novell Netware 4.11 using ipx/spx protocol. I try to use Netcon , but netcon support only 2.2.* branch. how-to i connect to NetWare? -- Andrew Petrenko apl@webber.net.ua JSCB "Pravex-BANK" +380-44-573-9275 --FBSD026630 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 07:29:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27357 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:29:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lion.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [194.87.112.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27347 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:29:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bp@butya.kz) Received: from bp (helo=localhost) by lion.butya.kz with local-esmtp (Exim 2.054 #1) id 105Wst-0000sm-00; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:28:03 +0600 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:28:03 +0600 (ALMT) From: Boris Popov To: Andrew Petrenko cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Connecting from FreeBSD-3.0 to Novell Netware 4.11 In-Reply-To: <36AF0D2D.10E0BA78@webber.net.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Andrew, On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Andrew Petrenko wrote: > Can i connect from FreeBSD-3.0 to Novell Netware 4.11 using ipx/spx > protocol. > I try to use Netcon , but netcon support only 2.2.* branch. how-to i > connect > to NetWare? You can try now first beta version of Netware client for FreeBSD, or wait for stable version. For now it supports only 3.0. In any way url is ftp://ftp.butya.kz/pub/nwlib/ -- Boris Popov To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 08:38:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06548 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:38:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from carp.gbr.epa.gov (carp.gbr.epa.gov [204.46.159.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06510; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:38:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjenkins@carp.gbr.epa.gov) Received: (from mjenkins@localhost) by carp.gbr.epa.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21173; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:37:46 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mjenkins) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:37:46 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Jenkins Message-Id: <199901271637.KAA21173@carp.gbr.epa.gov> To: billf@chc-chimes.com Subject: Re: device error Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Shi Yu wrote: > > > > pcap_open_live: /dev/bpf0: Device not configured > > FYI - If my SGML is correct, revision 1.19 of doc/FAQ/network.sgml > contains an entry which should answer the above bpf [frequently > asked] question. Thanks for adding '10.22 Why do I get "/dev/bpf0: device not configured"?' to the FAQ. The date listed at the top of http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/ needs updating. Also shouldn't the "pseudo-device bpfilter" line have a number after it? Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 09:17:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA11735 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:17:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gaia.nimnet.asn.au (nimbin.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.45.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11724 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:17:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Received: from localhost (smithi@localhost) by gaia.nimnet.asn.au (8.8.8/8.8.8R1.0) with SMTP id EAA13440; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:18:11 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from smithi@nimnet.asn.au) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:18:10 +1100 (EST) From: Ian Smith To: voux cc: username , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: device error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, voux wrote: > You should to add line to your kernel config file: > pseudo-device bpfilter 4 #Berkeley packet filter > then recompile your kernel. Just what I did. Even so, if you want to use more than one bpf at a time, you'll have to use MAKEDEV to create bpf1, bpf2, bpf3 .. or at least that's what I had to do here (2.2.6-RELEASE). I didn't discover this for months, till one day I wanted to run tcpdump on two interfaces. Ian -- smithi@nimnet.asn.au http://www.nimnet.asn.au/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 11:26:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27728 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:26:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hp9000.chc-chimes.com (hp9000.chc-chimes.com [206.67.97.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27721 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:26:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from billf@chc-chimes.com) Received: from localhost by hp9000.chc-chimes.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA124794084; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:34:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:34:44 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Fumerola To: Ian Smith Cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: device error In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Ian Smith wrote: > Just what I did. Even so, if you want to use more than one bpf at a > time, you'll have to use MAKEDEV to create bpf1, bpf2, bpf3 .. or at > least that's what I had to do here (2.2.6-RELEASE). I didn't discover > this for months, till one day I wanted to run tcpdump on two interfaces. This was fixed in revision 1.174 of src/etc/etc.i386/MAKEDEV by obrien. This change was post-{2.2.8,3.0}-RELEASE, so unless you keep your sources up to date, this behavior will effect you. - bill fumerola - billf@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp - - ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfumerol@computerhorizons.com - billf@FreeBSD.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 13:34:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13556 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:34:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13546 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:34:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA21609; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:34:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021602; Wed, 27 Jan 99 13:33:43 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA15312; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:33:43 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901272133.NAA15312@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. In-Reply-To: <36AEE5FF.6321551E@pipeline.ch> from Andre Oppermann at "Jan 27, 99 11:10:07 am" To: oppermann@pipeline.ch (Andre Oppermann) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:33:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andre Oppermann writes: > I have some ar cards here but no free port on my Cisco's at the moment. > *sigh* > > Anyway, how do I run SyncPPP on that? You can use the new version of mpd (coming soon :-) to run PPP over any netgraph setup. It's not released yet because I want to add a bunch more documentation first... but if you don't care about that I can send you a copy. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 13:45:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15287 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:45:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA15277 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:45:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06122; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdEt6116; Wed Jan 27 21:44:35 1999 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:44:29 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Archie Cobbs cc: Andre Oppermann , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. In-Reply-To: <199901272133.NAA15312@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Andre Oppermann writes: > > I have some ar cards here but no free port on my Cisco's at the moment. > > *sigh* > > > > Anyway, how do I run SyncPPP on that? > > You can use the new version of mpd (coming soon :-) to run > PPP over any netgraph setup. It's not released yet because > I want to add a bunch more documentation first... but if > you don't care about that I can send you a copy. It should be possible to use the ppp nides under some situations should it not? I'm not a PPP guru, but what would be needed to add simple sync ppp support using only ng nodes? > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 14:04:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17368 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:00:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17358 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:00:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA22008; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022006; Wed, 27 Jan 99 14:00:10 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA15535; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:00:10 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901272200.OAA15535@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. In-Reply-To: from Julian Elischer at "Jan 27, 99 01:44:29 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:00:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: oppermann@pipeline.ch, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Julian Elischer writes: > > > Anyway, how do I run SyncPPP on that? > > > > You can use the new version of mpd (coming soon :-) to run > > PPP over any netgraph setup. It's not released yet because > > I want to add a bunch more documentation first... but if > > you don't care about that I can send you a copy. > > It should be possible to use the ppp nodes under some situations > should it not? I'm not a PPP guru, but what would be needed to add simple > sync ppp support using only ng nodes? Yes, that will be the next step.. that is, mpd will be updated in two steps: 1 mpd that still uses the tunnel interface, but understands netgraph nodes (so packets still leave the kernel, but at least each packet is read a whole packet at a time instead of little bits at a time (even for async PPP over serial ports)) This is done, it just wants to have some more documentation. 2 mpd that knows how to create and setup the ng_ppp(8), ng_vjc(8), and ng_iface(8) nodes as appropriate. Then it would no longer use the tunnel interface, and IP packets would never leave the kernel. This shouldn't take too long to write. Step 1 will be release real soon now :-), step 2 as soon as I can write it. Step 3 is to write netgraph nodes for the various PPP compression and encryption types. As these things get written they can migrate from user-space to kernel space. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 15:48:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01833 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:48:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01802 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:47:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA28892; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:47:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:47:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Julian Elischer cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > On another topic, does anyone have any ideas of node tyoes that they > think we should implement? We completed the pp and vjc nodes in the > latest snapshot. Sounds like you could implement a node that would do tunneling over ethernet interfaces. I've not had a chance to look at the code yet. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 16:20:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA07447 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:20:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA07440 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:20:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA12137; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:19:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpds12134; Thu Jan 28 00:19:44 1999 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:19:39 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org check out (using netscape) the docs at: ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/archie/netgraph/index.html and follow the links to the netgraph.4 man page. at the bottom of that page are links to all the node man pages. What you suggest would require that wa add a netgraph capable interface to if_ethersubr.c (hhmmmmmmmm that might be interesting) On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > On another topic, does anyone have any ideas of node tyoes that they > > think we should implement? We completed the pp and vjc nodes in the > > latest snapshot. > > Sounds like you could implement a node that would do tunneling over > ethernet interfaces. I've not had a chance to look at the code yet. > > -- > | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | > | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | > | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 18:16:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19364 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:16:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19354 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA14190; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:16:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:16:38 -0500 (EST) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <199901280216.VAA14190@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: Julian Elischer Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org < said: > What you suggest would require that wa add a netgraph capable interface to > if_ethersubr.c > (hhmmmmmmmm that might be interesting) ...and I'll kill anyone who tries to put it into the source tree. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 18:33:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21616 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:33:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21607 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:33:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA24665; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:32:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9901272132.ZM24664@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:32:54 -0500 In-Reply-To: Garrett Wollman "Re: Netgraph sync card success.." (Jan 27, 9:27pm) References: <199901280216.VAA14190@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Garrett Wollman Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. Cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Jan 27, 9:27pm, Garrett Wollman (possibly) wrote: > < said: > > > What you suggest would require that wa add a netgraph capable interface to > > if_ethersubr.c > > (hhmmmmmmmm that might be interesting) > > ...and I'll kill anyone who tries to put it into the source tree. Why? -Allen -- Allen Smith easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 18:50:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23638 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23628 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:50:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA16686; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdl16682; Thu Jan 28 02:43:29 1999 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:43:26 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Robert Watson cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph new version In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Performance is very good. on par with the performance of processing of ethernet frames. We don't have exact comparisons because we don't have the same hardware setup. The only person who could give you any idea would be John Hay because he's run new and old code in the same setup, however I'd be surprised if he could see any difference. in performance. The amount of overhead code run for each node is relatively small. On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Robert Watson wrote: > > Julian-- > > This all sounds great to me. I was wondering if you had had a chance to > test performance changes as a result of the structural changes? I have > not had a chance to look at the implementation, but I look forward to the > chance :). > > > On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > A prerelease version is available at: > > The release version is waiting for 'make world' to work again, so > > We can do our last tests on it. This is substantially production quality > > code, as we have spent a week cleaning and preening. > > > > ftp://ftp.whistle.com/pub/archie/misc/netgraph.tgz > > > > This file includes a USEFUL README file, a tar file of new files and a > > patch file to change existing files.. (including a patch to netstat to > > allow it to report netgraph 'socket' nodes.) > > > > Man pages for all the node types > > > > patches to if_sr.c and if_ar.c compile cleanly and give examples of how a > > sync card should be interfaced.. (if_ar.c is easier to understand) (these > > cannot be tested as we don't have those cards, but the netgraph code has > > been tested with our own proprietary card) > > > > All nodes except the sync cards can be loaded as KLD modules > > however to compile the sync cards in you also need the base netgraph > > module in the kernel. > > > > requires newest version of uipc_domain.c and domian.h > > > > If you want to test it without the sync cards, you can load the whole > > thing into a new kernel as modules and try it from there. > > > > You should read the man pages: > > netgraph(4) > > ng_socket > > netgraph(3) > > ngctl(8) > > nghook(8) > > ng_{other tyes} > > > > probably in that order > > > > The following modules are supplied: > > base - the base framework. > > UI - simple node t add/strip "Un-numbered Information" header (0x03) > > async - do rfc 1662 framing/unframing on a packet > > cisco - 'cisco' hdlc framing and protocol. > > echo - echoes packets back at sender > > hole - blackhole (discard device) > > iface - netgraph node on one side, regular interface on the other > > rfc1490 - rfc1490 frame-relay protocol encapsulation > > lmi - frame relay link management protocol handler. > > frame-relay - frame-relay channel multiplexor/demultiplexor > > socket - netgraph node on one side, socket on the other > > tee - assist debugging by tapping a link > > tty - netgraph node on one side, tty line disciplin on the other. > > > > plus: > > if_sr.c, if_ar.c patches to make these netgraph capable. > > > > ppp - unfinished ppp node > > vjc - unfinished van-jacobson compression node > > > > patches are also available for mpd to allow mpd to run multilink ppp > > into a netgraph socket. (not supplied) > > > > Netgraph is designed to allow quick development of production quality > > modules that can be re-used in such environments as ATM, fram-relay, ppp, > > async-ppp, ISDN. > > > > Each module knows how to do ONE thing. you hook them together to do more. > > > > julian > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > > > > > Robert N Watson > > robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ > PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C > > Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ > TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ > SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 18:50:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23686 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:50:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23669 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:50:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA16817; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdy16814; Thu Jan 28 02:49:25 1999 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:49:21 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Garrett Wollman cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. In-Reply-To: <199901280216.VAA14190@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org oh yeah the other thing I'm looking at is a DPF node which you pointed out.. (by Dawson engler @ MIT) unfortunatly there is no x86 VCODE version so it may take some work. On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > > > What you suggest would require that wa add a netgraph capable interface to > > if_ethersubr.c > > (hhmmmmmmmm that might be interesting) > > ...and I'll kill anyone who tries to put it into the source tree. > > -GAWollman > > -- > Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same > wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom > Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame > MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 19:59:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03266 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:59:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03252 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:59:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sworkman@nidlink.com) Received: from hal.nidlink.com (pm3d1-33.nidlink.com [216.18.131.40]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA00264 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:59:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:00:20 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: sworkman@nidlink.com From: Shawn Workman To: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Migration to FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I currently work for a company that has a small lan( 15 machines total ) and we are adding a T1 line in a month or so. I proposed to my boss that we should use FreeBSD and NATd allong with a kernel built with IP forwarding as our gateway to the internet accross the T1. The machine we are currently using as a gateway is our main file server (not my choice) it is a PII 400Mhz with 128 MB ram and a 9.1GB UW SCSI 3 drive running NT 4.0. My boss is foolishly considering running our current file services on this machine as well as a web server and a SMTP server for our site and a few others that we are going to host on site. This is the same machine that all of our sensitive company information is on. I am looking for advice on how to approach him with the option of FreeBSD. He loves M$ and was getting ready to dump 1000 on MS Proxy 2.0 when I stopped him and pointed him toward the aVirt Gateway server.. I have mentioned to him, every time we add a new machine or other component to our network, that FreeBSD could do it better and without client license issues or costs. He just looks at me and says "Isn't that what you run at home?" so I say yes, and tell hime it is awesome and less crash prone than NT and if it does crash it is almost always something the Administrator messed up, or a first time user.. I really want to implement FreeBSD in our system not only as our gateway but also as our networks file servers.. Any advice will be greatly appreciated... Shawn Workman ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Shawn Workman Date: 27-Jan-99 Time: 19:50:59 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 21:39:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15609 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15551 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA04671; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:39:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:39:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Garrett Wollman cc: Julian Elischer , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netgraph sync card success.. In-Reply-To: <199901280216.VAA14190@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > > What you suggest would require that wa add a netgraph capable > > interface to if_ethersubr.c (hhmmmmmmmm that might be interesting) > > ...and I'll kill anyone who tries to put it into the source tree. Thats kind of a closed minded additude towards something that could be wrapped in a kernel option isn't it? How is this different from something like dummynet? -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 23:00:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25587 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:00:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25582 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:00:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA22745; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:51:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdo22742; Thu Jan 28 06:51:48 1999 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:51:43 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Shawn Workman cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org or just buy an interjet.. (but I might be biased..) pre-packaged FreeBSD server with a T1 interface built in.. www.whistle.com get it from www.shopper.com I think it's about $2600 there..including the T1 interface http://www.shopper.com/prdct/748/891.html On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Shawn Workman wrote: > I currently work for a company that has a small lan( 15 machines total ) and we > are adding a T1 line in a month or so. I proposed to my boss that we should > use FreeBSD and NATd allong with a kernel built with IP forwarding as our > gateway to the internet accross the T1. > > The machine we are currently using as a gateway is our main file server (not my > choice) it is a PII 400Mhz with 128 MB ram and a 9.1GB UW SCSI 3 drive running > NT 4.0. > > My boss is foolishly considering running our current file services on this > machine as well as a web server and a SMTP server for our site and a few others > that we are going to host on site. This is the same machine that all of our > sensitive company information is on. > > I am looking for advice on how to approach him with the option of FreeBSD. He > loves M$ and was getting ready to dump 1000 on MS Proxy 2.0 when I stopped him > and pointed him toward the aVirt Gateway server.. > > I have mentioned to him, every time we add a new machine or other component to > our network, that FreeBSD could do it better and without client license issues > or costs. He just looks at me and says "Isn't that what you run at home?" so I > say yes, and tell hime it is awesome and less crash prone than NT and if it > does crash it is almost always something the Administrator messed up, or a > first time user.. > > I really want to implement FreeBSD in our system not only as our gateway but > also as our networks file servers.. > > Any advice will be greatly appreciated... > > Shawn Workman > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: Shawn Workman > Date: 27-Jan-99 > Time: 19:50:59 > > This message was sent by XFMail > ---------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Wed Jan 27 23:05:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26299 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:05:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA26294 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:05:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sworkman@nidlink.com) Received: from hal.nidlink.com (pm3d1-33.nidlink.com [216.18.131.40]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA21167; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:05:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:07:18 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: sworkman@nidlink.com From: Shawn Workman To: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD Cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org That seems like a waste of a perfectly good PII 400 though, Sounds like a good solution for another box at home though :) What do you think my wife would say to having a total of 16 boxes at home? :) On 28-Jan-99 Julian Elischer wrote: > or just buy an interjet.. > (but I might be biased..) > pre-packaged FreeBSD server with a T1 interface built in.. > www.whistle.com > get it from www.shopper.com > I think it's about $2600 there..including the T1 interface > > http://www.shopper.com/prdct/748/891.html ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Shawn Workman Date: 27-Jan-99 Time: 23:05:24 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 03:26:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00459 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:26:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paprika.michvhf.com (paprika.michvhf.com [209.57.60.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA00454 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:26:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vev@michvhf.com) Received: (qmail 28401 invoked by uid 1001); 28 Jan 1999 11:26:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:26:45 -0500 (EST) From: Vince Vielhaber To: Shawn Workman cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Shawn Workman wrote: > I currently work for a company that has a small lan( 15 machines total ) and we > are adding a T1 line in a month or so. I proposed to my boss that we should > use FreeBSD and NATd allong with a kernel built with IP forwarding as our > gateway to the internet accross the T1. > > The machine we are currently using as a gateway is our main file server (not my > choice) it is a PII 400Mhz with 128 MB ram and a 9.1GB UW SCSI 3 drive running > NT 4.0. > > My boss is foolishly considering running our current file services on this > machine as well as a web server and a SMTP server for our site and a few others > that we are going to host on site. This is the same machine that all of our > sensitive company information is on. > > I am looking for advice on how to approach him with the option of FreeBSD. He > loves M$ and was getting ready to dump 1000 on MS Proxy 2.0 when I stopped him > and pointed him toward the aVirt Gateway server.. > > I have mentioned to him, every time we add a new machine or other component to > our network, that FreeBSD could do it better and without client license issues > or costs. He just looks at me and says "Isn't that what you run at home?" so I > say yes, and tell hime it is awesome and less crash prone than NT and if it > does crash it is almost always something the Administrator messed up, or a > first time user.. > > I really want to implement FreeBSD in our system not only as our gateway but > also as our networks file servers.. > > Any advice will be greatly appreciated... Hand him some printouts from BUGTRAQ and remind him the sensitive company info is on that machine. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include TEAM-OS2 Online Searchable Campground Listings http://www.camping-usa.com "There is no outfit less entitled to lecture me about bloat than the federal government" -- Tony Snow ========================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 06:21:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA21717 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:21:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA21710 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:21:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29961; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:21:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B07253.CB3BDC4E@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:21:07 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: Shawn Workman , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Julian Elischer wrote: > > or just buy an interjet.. > (but I might be biased..) > pre-packaged FreeBSD server with a T1 interface built in.. > www.whistle.com > get it from www.shopper.com > I think it's about $2600 there..including the T1 interface > > http://www.shopper.com/prdct/748/891.html > > On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Shawn Workman wrote: > > > I currently work for a company that has a small lan( 15 machines total ) and we > > are adding a T1 line in a month or so. I proposed to my boss that we should > > use FreeBSD and NATd allong with a kernel built with IP forwarding as our > > gateway to the internet accross the T1. I don't work for Whistle -- I used to work for a sort-of competitor. Tell your boss about the InterJet, get him to buy, install it yourself, let him see what a kick-ass, non-crashing box it is, THEN tell him it's running FreeBSD, and you can have the same level of stability and performance in your fileservers for FREE. The InterJet is the coolest router/server on the market, bar none. This from the guy who designed the guts of the Intel Internet Station. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 07:56:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03592 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:56:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03579 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:56:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17265; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:55:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:55:59 -0500 (EST) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <199901281555.KAA17265@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: Julian Elischer Cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DPF (was: Re: Netgraph sync card success..) In-Reply-To: References: <199901280216.VAA14190@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org < said: > oh yeah the other thing I'm looking at is a DPF node > which you pointed out.. (by Dawson engler @ MIT) > unfortunatly there is no x86 VCODE version so it may take some work. One of the students in the group I used to work for did this. (In fact, she did the obvious thing I've been flaming about wrt translating ipfw into packet filters.) I've asked her former supervisor to see if he can't manage to disgorge some of this code so that other people might play with it. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 08:19:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA06291 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:19:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Homer.Web-Ex.com ([209.54.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06283 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:19:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@web-ex.com) Received: from localhost (jim@localhost) by Homer.Web-Ex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27989; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:18:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jim@web-ex.com) X-Authentication-Warning: Homer.Web-Ex.com: jim owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:18:56 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Cassata To: Shawn Workman cc: FreeBSD Net Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Shawn, As a network integrator with extensive experience with Microsoft, Novell, and UNIX (including FreeBSD) I can understand your boss' concerns. If you do not know much about computers, your overall opinion is that Microsoft is the easy and affordable way. You buy into their marketing BS. Microsoft products are a tremendous blessing to those of us who bill by the hour, as it needs a large amounts of time and money to implement any of the services you probably have running at home. There goes the idea of affordable. Large companies rely on UNIX and Novell, because they work. Microsoft makes most of their money off of the non computer-literate person. Migration and growth are tremendously more complicated and costly for Microsoft products, between hours consumed, downtime and fees. I typically see Windows NT on a company's rollout plan when those in charge are of a very limited experience. We can all report on where and when Microsoft products are appropriate (on the desktops for most users) but what will probably convince your boss is by showing him that you are capable of supporting a FreeBSD environment. (and that means knowing where to find the answers, not necessarily having them all up front) Set up a box for him and run email and www and firewall services, then let him toy with the idea of more powerful hardware and licensing/consulting costs on a less reliable Windows alternative. Jim Cassata 516.421.6000 jim@web-ex.com Web Express 20 Broadhollow Road Suite 3011 Melville, NY 11747 On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Shawn Workman wrote: > I currently work for a company that has a small lan( 15 machines total ) and we > are adding a T1 line in a month or so. I proposed to my boss that we should > use FreeBSD and NATd allong with a kernel built with IP forwarding as our > gateway to the internet accross the T1. > > The machine we are currently using as a gateway is our main file server (not my > choice) it is a PII 400Mhz with 128 MB ram and a 9.1GB UW SCSI 3 drive running > NT 4.0. > > My boss is foolishly considering running our current file services on this > machine as well as a web server and a SMTP server for our site and a few others > that we are going to host on site. This is the same machine that all of our > sensitive company information is on. > > I am looking for advice on how to approach him with the option of FreeBSD. He > loves M$ and was getting ready to dump 1000 on MS Proxy 2.0 when I stopped him > and pointed him toward the aVirt Gateway server.. > > I have mentioned to him, every time we add a new machine or other component to > our network, that FreeBSD could do it better and without client license issues > or costs. He just looks at me and says "Isn't that what you run at home?" so I > say yes, and tell hime it is awesome and less crash prone than NT and if it > does crash it is almost always something the Administrator messed up, or a > first time user.. > > I really want to implement FreeBSD in our system not only as our gateway but > also as our networks file servers.. > > Any advice will be greatly appreciated... > > Shawn Workman > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: Shawn Workman > Date: 27-Jan-99 > Time: 19:50:59 > > This message was sent by XFMail > ---------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 09:09:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12194 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:09:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tritium.cchem.berkeley.edu (tritium.CChem.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12181 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:09:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msinatra@uclink4.berkeley.edu) Received: from iridium (iridium.cchem.berkeley.edu [128.32.180.11]) by tritium.cchem.berkeley.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00579; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:07:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:07:14 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Sinatra X-Sender: msinatra@iridium.cchem.berkeley.edu To: Shawn Workman cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Distribution: ucb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Shawn Workman wrote: > The machine we are currently using as a gateway is our main file server (not my > choice) it is a PII 400Mhz with 128 MB ram and a 9.1GB UW SCSI 3 drive running > NT 4.0. > > My boss is foolishly considering running our current file services on this > machine as well as a web server and a SMTP server for our site and a few others > that we are going to host on site. This is the same machine that all of our > sensitive company information is on. This is indeed quite foolish. Ignoring for the moment the FreeBSD vs. NT issue, it is seldom a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket, especially a basket with as many holes in it as NT. What's even dumber is to put all of your eggs in one basket and *then* run a web server on it! You might as well put up a big banner that says "come crack our site and steal our sensitive company information." There is no question in my mind that your company would be better off separating the gateway and file-server machines. For your internal fileserver, you can use whatever OS you prefer, but for the gateway machine, FreeBSD is a really good choice, with its support for firewalling and packet filtering, plus SMTP (sendmail, qmail, whatever) and Apache. In that respect the Interjet might be a good idea. I have some nice real estate in Florida that I would be willing to sell to anyone who believes Microsoft's claim that NT can do everything. I don't believe that about *any* operating system, but with NT, that claim is really laughable. Michael Sinatra unix sysadmin college of chemistry uc berkeley To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 11:23:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28112 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28104 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09487; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdDG9459; Thu Jan 28 19:10:57 1999 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:10:40 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Wes Peters cc: Shawn Workman , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <36B07253.CB3BDC4E@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org unfortunatly the ONE thing tha marketting dept told us to not do is the thing that these guys want to do (dammit.. we TOLD them handling multiple virtual domains was important!) Duh!. oh well.. *sigh* maybe next revision. On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Wes Peters wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > or just buy an interjet.. > > (but I might be biased..) > > pre-packaged FreeBSD server with a T1 interface built in.. > > www.whistle.com > > get it from www.shopper.com > > I think it's about $2600 there..including the T1 interface > > > > http://www.shopper.com/prdct/748/891.html > > > > On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Shawn Workman wrote: > > > > > I currently work for a company that has a small lan( 15 machines total ) and we > > > are adding a T1 line in a month or so. I proposed to my boss that we should > > > use FreeBSD and NATd allong with a kernel built with IP forwarding as our > > > gateway to the internet accross the T1. > > I don't work for Whistle -- I used to work for a sort-of competitor. > Tell your boss about the InterJet, get him to buy, install it yourself, > let him see what a kick-ass, non-crashing box it is, THEN tell him it's > running FreeBSD, and you can have the same level of stability and > performance in your fileservers for FREE. > > The InterJet is the coolest router/server on the market, bar none. > This from the guy who designed the guts of the Intel Internet > Station. ;^) > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 12:02:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03921 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:02:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03891 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:01:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11268; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:53:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdk11261; Thu Jan 28 19:52:59 1999 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:52:54 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Garrett Wollman cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DPF (was: Re: Netgraph sync card success..) In-Reply-To: <199901281555.KAA17265@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > > > oh yeah the other thing I'm looking at is a DPF node > > which you pointed out.. (by Dawson engler @ MIT) > > unfortunatly there is no x86 VCODE version so it may take some work. > > One of the students in the group I used to work for did this. (In > fact, she did the obvious thing I've been flaming about wrt > translating ipfw into packet filters.) I've asked her former > supervisor to see if he can't manage to disgorge some of this code so > that other people might play with it. Great! that would be wonderful! > > -GAWollman > > -- > Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same > wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom > Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame > MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 13:17:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17847 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:17:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17841 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:17:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id NAA21661; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id NAA26335; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:16:26 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id OAA16225; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:16:24 -0700 Message-ID: <36B0D3A8.73A3E571@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:16:24 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jim Cassata CC: Shawn Workman , FreeBSD Net Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jim Cassata wrote: > > We can all report on where and when Microsoft products are appropriate (on > the desktops for most users) but what will probably convince your boss is > by showing him that you are capable of supporting a FreeBSD environment. > (and that means knowing where to find the answers, not necessarily having > them all up front) Set up a box for him and run email and www and > firewall services, then let him toy with the idea of more powerful > hardware and licensing/consulting costs on a less reliable Windows > alternative. Jim makes an excellent point here. Keep in mind that FreeBSD is efficient enough that you could easily do the above with a cast-off Pentium desktop system; even a P100 makes a powerful mail & DNS server. My mail/DNS/ source code/everything server is a 486/66 with 32MB RAM, and hasn't paged since I "upgraded" it to server status and stopped running X. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 13:19:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18133 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:19:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18115 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:19:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id NAA21725; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:18:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id NAA26472; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:18:49 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id OAA16234; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:18:48 -0700 Message-ID: <36B0D438.73CB94C9@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:18:48 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer CC: Shawn Workman , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Migration to FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Julian Elischer wrote: > > unfortunatly the ONE thing tha marketting dept told us to not do is the > thing that these guys want to do (dammit.. we TOLD them handling multiple > virtual domains was important!) Duh!. oh well.. *sigh* maybe next > revision. But they want to sell multiple non-virtual InterJets, don't they? Gee, that's dumb. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 14:16:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25322 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:16:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25315 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:16:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16201; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:09:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdy16184; Thu Jan 28 22:08:59 1999 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:08:30 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG, Archie Cobbs Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <513.917558171@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm starting to side with poul.. that's why nodes already have the 'status' command (poul.. the 'status message asks the node to report back status in HUMAN READABLE FORM., e.g. [JulianIJ.whistle.com] 51 ngctl socket name is ngctl13852: ngctl> status fra0: status response for fra0: 1096458 bytes in, 871344 bytes out highest rate seen: 3486 B/S in, 2532 B/S out ngctl> On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <199901282051.MAA03721@bubba.whistle.com>, Archie Cobbs writes: > >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >> I'm not sure which control messages you are talking about, but if > >> they are anything like what I expect, I don't see why they would > >> have to be in argc+argv format, they are communication between > >> programs. > >> > >> The configuration on the other hand is between a human and a > >> program, which is why argc+argv makes sense in my eyes. > > > >We are in total agreement. > > Good, then why do you want to make the "ascii->internal format" code > so very special ? Put it in the drivers source where it belongs and > avoid all the complexity of separating that code out to other sections > to run in user-land and all that stuff. It is pointless! You have > to validate the stuff anyway, there is no net saving in code size, > only increased complexity. When I designed all this, The problem I was not able to solve before we needed the code, was exactly this.. How to make a single user tool be able to handle arbitrary (new?) nodes that it may know nothing about. My short term answers included: 1/ make a set of generic functions that all nodes could do. 2/ allow nodes to change their behaviour according to how they are attached to other nodes. (e.g. our sync card can do frame relay on it's own but unfortunatly it doesn't support one protocol variant we sometimes run into, so we do it in software. but the node will turn on it's own proccessing if you attach to the "dlci16" node instead of the "rawdata" hook). 3/ The node specific support for the 'status' command. If I were to continue in this vein then the logical extension would be: 4/ An optional node specific "Configure" command that accepts a single text configuration field, interpretted by the node. Note many nodes wouldn't need this as nodes are designed to be simple. teh complexity comes from the way you combine them. In a related thought however, nodes that need to communicate between each other should probably use compiled messages with specific message codes. It is much easier to believe that nodes sending status/control information between themselves might do it a lot quicker and more often than humans running ngctl. One node might be 'tuning' another in such a way that there are many (hundereds?) of these messages per second? In the same vein, if a process is doing this job it is assumed that it is probably closely tied with the node in question and probably has the apprpriate messages compiled in. This leaves us with only the human generated control information. Now, admittedly there needs to be a human way of doing everything that nodes can be doing themselves, but it does point towards the neccesity of an (optional) interpretter per node. Now the question is: where does it go? If it's inthe kernel, then there is no technology leap needed. Maybe there may be support in the base module so things are not duplicated. If it's in userland then there are two answers. 1/ the model used by mount... mount_codafs and fsck in sysV fsck_ufs A separate process is fired off to handle the encoding. 2/ the loadable function model 2A/ held in the .ko file 2B/ held in a special file elsewhere. julian > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 18:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01744 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:32:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hawaii.conterra.com (hawaii.conterra.com [209.12.164.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01737 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:32:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from myself@conterra.com) Received: from dmaddox.conterra.com (dmaddox.conterra.com [209.12.169.48]) by hawaii.conterra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11483 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:32:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from myself@localhost) by dmaddox.conterra.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id VAA02492 for net@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:32:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from myself) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:32:12 -0500 From: "Donald J . Maddox" To: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Why does tcpdump not see tun0 when loaded as a kld? Message-ID: <19990128213212.A2442@dmaddox.conterra.com> Reply-To: dmaddox@conterra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I recently decided to try building a kernel without static tun0, and use the kld module instead. Unfortunately, I am seeing this: # ifconfig -a lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500 ds0: flags=8201 mtu 65532 inet 10.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 tun0: flags=8051 mtu 1500 inet 209.12.169.48 --> 209.12.169.2 netmask 0xffffff00 tun1: flags=8010 mtu 1500 lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 # tcpdump -i tun0 tcpdump: tun0: Device not configured Does tun0 _have_ to be compiled in statically for tcpdump to see it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 19:36:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10308 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:36:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10300 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:36:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.sh) id TAA29278; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:35:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990128193542.C25932@best.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:35:42 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: dmaddox@conterra.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why does tcpdump not see tun0 when loaded as a kld? References: <19990128213212.A2442@dmaddox.conterra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990128213212.A2442@dmaddox.conterra.com>; from Donald J . Maddox on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 09:32:12PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 09:32:12PM -0500, "Donald J . Maddox" wrote: > I recently decided to try building a kernel without static tun0, > and use the kld module instead. Unfortunately, I am seeing this: > > # ifconfig -a > lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500 > ds0: flags=8201 mtu 65532 > inet 10.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 > tun0: flags=8051 mtu 1500 > inet 209.12.169.48 --> 209.12.169.2 netmask 0xffffff00 > tun1: flags=8010 mtu 1500 > lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384 > inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 > > # tcpdump -i tun0 > tcpdump: tun0: Device not configured > > Does tun0 _have_ to be compiled in statically for tcpdump to see > it? > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message Because bpf attaches to devices during the boot time. Look in /usr/src/sys/net/bpf.c around line 1239 in bpfattach() Can someone confirm since I am not sure myself if that is true? -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Thu Jan 28 21:40:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA24289 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:40:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24283 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:40:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA17079; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma017075; Thu, 28 Jan 99 21:39:22 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id VAA09271; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:39:22 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901290539.VAA09271@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Why does tcpdump not see tun0 when loaded as a kld? In-Reply-To: <19990128193542.C25932@best.com> from "Jan B. Koum" at "Jan 28, 99 07:35:42 pm" To: jkb@best.com (Jan B. Koum) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:39:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: dmaddox@conterra.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jan B. Koum writes: > > # tcpdump -i tun0 > > tcpdump: tun0: Device not configured > > > > Does tun0 _have_ to be compiled in statically for tcpdump to see > > it? > > Because bpf attaches to devices during the boot time. Look in > /usr/src/sys/net/bpf.c around line 1239 in bpfattach() > > Can someone confirm since I am not sure myself if that is true? The problem (as I understand it) is that for "if_tun.ko" to support BPF it needs to call bpfattach(), among other functions. If you don't have BPF compiled into the kernel, then the link will fail. So the module takes the conservative stance by not including it. This is easy to fix by the way. Go to /sys/modules/if_tun, edit the Makefile to change the definition of NBPFILTER, and type "make all install". -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Fri Jan 29 00:01:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09127 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:01:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA09122 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:01:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02107; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:00:41 +0100 (CET) To: Julian Elischer cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG, Archie Cobbs Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:08:30 PST." Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:00:39 +0100 Message-ID: <2105.917596839@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >My short term answers included: > >1/ make a set of generic functions that all nodes could do. yes, things like "attach", "dettach", "debug" and so on. >2/ allow nodes to change their behaviour according to how they are >attached to other nodes. (e.g. our sync card can do frame relay >on it's own but unfortunatly it doesn't support one protocol variant we >sometimes run into, so we do it in software. but the node will turn on >it's own proccessing if you attach to the "dlci16" node instead of the >"rawdata" hook). urg. POLA may be in danger here... >3/ The node specific support for the 'status' command. Should return standard struct (for stuff in 1/ and stats) and ascii string for custom stuff. >4/ An optional node specific "Configure" command that accepts a single >text configuration field, interpretted by the node. Note many nodes >wouldn't need this as nodes are designed to be simple. teh complexity >comes from the way you combine them. Well, I would make it an argc+argv arg, but that is a minor detail. >In a related thought however, nodes that need to communicate between >each other should probably use compiled messages with specific message >codes. absolutely. >It is much easier to believe that nodes sending status/control information >between themselves might do it a lot quicker and more often than >humans running ngctl. One node might be 'tuning' another in such a way >that there are many (hundereds?) of these messages per second? I fail to come up with an example right now. Opening and closing VCs is the best I can come up with, and most protocols deliberately make sure that only happens on a 10s of seconds/minutes time scale (for accounting reasons). >In the same vein, if a process is doing this job it is assumed that it is >probably closely tied with the node in question and probably has the >apprpriate messages compiled in. yes. >This leaves us with only the human >generated control information. I would even say "quasi-static config info"... >Now the question is: >where does it go? I argue with KISS for "in the kernel". The area we're into here, is the "weirdo config args", things like telling cards to go into loop-back on channel 4, to select balanced or unbalanced connection, the speed of V.35 (for buffer estimation), ISDN switch type. All these highly irregular things that always ends up in the LINK[012] flags for interfaces and in the flags for isa devices. (If you look at most of the fooctrl programs, they are small, do almost nothing, and a general "ioctl" program which could pass an generic ioctl with an ascii argument to the driver would save us some code...) I can almost even live with the bloat of a "usage" control message which returns an ascii usage string. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Fri Jan 29 00:45:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14824 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:45:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14805 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA04745; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdlG4742; Fri Jan 29 08:36:43 1999 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:36:43 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG, Archie Cobbs Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <2105.917596839@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > >It is much easier to believe that nodes sending status/control information > >between themselves might do it a lot quicker and more often than > >humans running ngctl. One node might be 'tuning' another in such a way > >that there are many (hundereds?) of these messages per second? > > I fail to come up with an example right now. Opening and closing VCs > is the best I can come up with, and most protocols deliberately make > sure that only happens on a 10s of seconds/minutes time scale (for > accounting reasons). I have theorised about using a set of nodes for such things a flow-control on sub-pipes, where the flow information is passed back and forth, setting up high and low watermarks. In a bursty high capacity medium with several 'subchannels' being controlled, I can imagine these needing to be in thorder of 10s per second. I also am sure that I don't have any idea what this stuff will be used for in teh future if it's successful. I can imagine for example flowcontrol messages toggling a CTS line as a buffer upstream nears a highwatermark. I have two "Interesting" nodes under development which I hope to complete over the weekend. julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Fri Jan 29 08:26:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04682 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:26:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04676 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:26:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gemorga2@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16667 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from gemorga2.campus.vt.edu (gemorga2.campus.vt.edu [198.82.100.219]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA24281 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:26:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901291626.LAA24281@sable.cc.vt.edu> From: "George Morgan" To: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:26:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: 3.0-Release Net Install problem.. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org When I boot from floppy to do an FTP install of 3.0-Release, the process hangs while trying to init the adapter (stops at Add Default Route) My adapter is an Intel PRO100B PCI. George Morgan Virginia Tech Electrical Engineering Class of 2000! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Fri Jan 29 11:52:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02079 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:52:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hillbilly.hayseed.net (dnai-207-181-249-194.dsl.dnai.com [207.181.249.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02070 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:52:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from enkhyl@scient.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hillbilly.hayseed.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06431; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:52:20 -0800 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:52:16 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@ender.sf.scient.com Reply-To: Christopher Nielsen To: "Donald J . Maddox" cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why does tcpdump not see tun0 when loaded as a kld? In-Reply-To: <19990128213212.A2442@dmaddox.conterra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Donald J . Maddox wrote: > I recently decided to try building a kernel without static tun0, > and use the kld module instead. Unfortunately, I am seeing this: > > # ifconfig -a > lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500 > ds0: flags=8201 mtu 65532 > inet 10.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 > tun0: flags=8051 mtu 1500 > inet 209.12.169.48 --> 209.12.169.2 netmask 0xffffff00 > tun1: flags=8010 mtu 1500 > lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384 > inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 > > # tcpdump -i tun0 > tcpdump: tun0: Device not configured > > Does tun0 _have_ to be compiled in statically for tcpdump to see > it? Not from my experience. The loadable module works really well for me. -- Christopher Nielsen Scient: The eBusiness Systems Innovator cnielsen@scient.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Fri Jan 29 16:00:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04578 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:00:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04570 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:00:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id PAA28623; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma028621; Fri, 29 Jan 99 15:54:19 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id PAA01659; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:54:19 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901292354.PAA01659@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <2105.917596839@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Jan 29, 99 09:00:39 am" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:54:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >Now the question is: > >where does it go? > > I argue with KISS for "in the kernel". > > The area we're into here, is the "weirdo config args", things like > telling cards to go into loop-back on channel 4, to select balanced > or unbalanced connection, the speed of V.35 (for buffer estimation), > ISDN switch type. All these highly irregular things that always > ends up in the LINK[012] flags for interfaces and in the flags for > isa devices. > > (If you look at most of the fooctrl programs, they are small, do > almost nothing, and a general "ioctl" program which could pass > an generic ioctl with an ascii argument to the driver would save > us some code...) > > I can almost even live with the bloat of a "usage" control message > which returns an ascii usage string. Poul- What did you think of the idea of having each node contain two new methods for encoding and decoding ASCII strings? I say methods but really they would just understand two new generic message types. Then ngctl could send control messages to encode and decode, while 'normal' control messages between nodes stayed in binary form. It also respects KISS, by keeping all the node-specific code together. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Fri Jan 29 17:48:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22735 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:48:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22703 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:47:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03379; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdZC3376; Sat Jan 30 01:41:43 1999 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:41:40 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Archie Cobbs cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <199901292354.PAA01659@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > > Poul- > What did you think of the idea of having each node contain two > new methods for encoding and decoding ASCII strings? I say methods > but really they would just understand two new generic message types. > > Then ngctl could send control messages to encode and decode, while > 'normal' control messages between nodes stayed in binary form. The whole idea of asking the kernel to translate a message destined for the kernel makes me feel a little ill. My personal thoughts are: Either the module can just translate it itself, (I'm not sure of argc/argv or just a string), Or maybe it can send out a "format string" type template that allows an interpretter to pack structs to its specifications. e.g. "23=[-A %d.%d.%d.%d]->8:8:8:8" (message 23 is recognosed by the -A flag and wants the following 4 decimal entities packed into 4 8bit fields) A single standard message could deliver all the messages a node is expecting. and we could probably do a better 'language' if we spent more than the 60 seconds I did on this one.. kind of liek an RPC specification, but human->RPC rather than native-binary->RPC. The cost of the interpretter would be born (shared) by all the nodes The first is really simple but I don't really like interpeters in the kernel. The 2nd is not quite as simple (though from the node's point of view it is even simpler), but to my mind is even more elegant. This in addition to other suggestions already made.. julian > > It also respects KISS, by keeping all the node-specific code > together. As I said.. it makes my hair stand on end, but I cant put my finger on the reason. > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Fri Jan 29 18:37:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29145 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29138 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:37:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA00837; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma000835; Fri, 29 Jan 99 18:31:16 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA04944; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:31:16 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901300231.SAA04944@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: from Julian Elischer at "Jan 29, 99 05:41:40 pm" To: julian@whistle.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:31:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Julian Elischer writes: > > Then ngctl could send control messages to encode and decode, while > > 'normal' control messages between nodes stayed in binary form. > > The whole idea of asking the kernel to translate a message destined for > the kernel makes me feel a little ill. Why? We all would rather do the translation in user space, but that has greater costs in terms of linkage problems (ELF sections and all that) if you want to preserve the sensible goal of keeping the encoding/decoding code with the rest of the node's code. > Either the module can just translate it itself, (I'm not sure of argc/argv I think we should clearly separate ("orthogonalize") the encoding/decoding business from the delivery of the actual message. Otherwise, should it become easier someday in the future to do it in user space, it would be more difficult to extract that code out.. not just from the node, but from all the other user programs that may rely on it. Orthogonality and cleanliness is always better, all things being equal. And here they are equal, because there's no *advantage* to having the node translate it itself. Remember, we're not talking high performance operations here. > or just a string), Or maybe it can send out a "format string" type > template that allows an interpretter to pack structs to its > specifications. > > e.g. > "23=[-A %d.%d.%d.%d]->8:8:8:8" > > (message 23 is recognosed by the -A flag and wants the following 4 decimal > entities packed into 4 8bit fields) A single standard message could > deliver all the messages a node is expecting. and we could probably do a > better 'language' if we spent more than the 60 seconds I did on this one.. > kind of liek an RPC specification, but human->RPC rather than > native-binary->RPC. The cost of the interpretter would be born (shared) by > all the nodes Blech! :-) What happened to KISS?? Now you're talking about inventing some crazy language. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 00:06:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27953 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:06:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA27946 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:06:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08813; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:05:30 +0100 (CET) To: Archie Cobbs cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:54:19 PST." <199901292354.PAA01659@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:05:29 +0100 Message-ID: <8811.917683529@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199901292354.PAA01659@bubba.whistle.com>, Archie Cobbs writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >> >Now the question is: >> >where does it go? >> >> I argue with KISS for "in the kernel". >> >> The area we're into here, is the "weirdo config args", things like >> telling cards to go into loop-back on channel 4, to select balanced >> or unbalanced connection, the speed of V.35 (for buffer estimation), >> ISDN switch type. All these highly irregular things that always >> ends up in the LINK[012] flags for interfaces and in the flags for >> isa devices. >> >> (If you look at most of the fooctrl programs, they are small, do >> almost nothing, and a general "ioctl" program which could pass >> an generic ioctl with an ascii argument to the driver would save >> us some code...) >> >> I can almost even live with the bloat of a "usage" control message >> which returns an ascii usage string. > >Poul- >What did you think of the idea of having each node contain two >new methods for encoding and decoding ASCII strings? I say methods >but really they would just understand two new generic message types. I don't see the point, quite frankly... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 00:27:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00197 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:27:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00192 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:27:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA03428; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma003426; Sat, 30 Jan 99 00:22:00 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA06454; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:22:00 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901300822.AAA06454@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <8811.917683529@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Jan 30, 99 09:05:29 am" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:22:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >What did you think of the idea of having each node contain two > >new methods for encoding and decoding ASCII strings? I say methods > >but really they would just understand two new generic message types. > > I don't see the point, quite frankly... The point is that you avoid having to parse ASCII strings for *every* control message. Only ngctl uses these encode/decode messages when it needs to communicate with humans. Otherwise, everything is done in 'native' binary format. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 00:32:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00939 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:32:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA00932 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09167; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:32:08 +0100 (CET) To: Archie Cobbs cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:22:00 PST." <199901300822.AAA06454@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:32:07 +0100 Message-ID: <9165.917685127@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199901300822.AAA06454@bubba.whistle.com>, Archie Cobbs writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >> >What did you think of the idea of having each node contain two >> >new methods for encoding and decoding ASCII strings? I say methods >> >but really they would just understand two new generic message types. >> >> I don't see the point, quite frankly... > >The point is that you avoid having to parse ASCII strings >for *every* control message. I simply don't understand why we can't have a single type of controlmessage that means "Here is an ascii string to you from the super-user, do whatever he tells you to, thankyou!" That's what I'm asking for, no more, no less. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 06:36:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA28849 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA28834 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:36:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA15704; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:26:34 +0100 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:26:29 +0100 (MET) From: Luigi Rizzo cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ping -f only 50 pkts/sec ? h In-Reply-To: <78uv4d$fkv$1@rena.mat.uc.pt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [also posted to net@freebsd.org] On 30 Jan 1999, Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro wrote: > Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro wrote: ... > > more testing) and I noticed that the -f option seems to be limited > > to 50 pkts/sec: ... > I think I found when the problem was introduced. ... > I compiled the 1.36 version, tried it and: ... > 10000 / 2.87 = ~3484 packets/sec. > The 1.37 version : ... > 9997 / (3*60 + 21.15) = ~49.699 packets/sec. > > The 1.37 version has the following comment: > ---------------------------- > revision 1.37 > date: 1998/05/25 20:16:05; author: fenner; state: Exp; lines: +104 -81 > Use select() timeouts instead of SIGALRM to schedule packet transmission. > > I suspect that this is related. definitely. I think that a select() with a non-zero timeout will sleep for at least one tick (10ms); i suppose that if you compile a kernel with HZ=1000 you'll see 500 pkts/s. Because the manpage says -f Flood ping. Outputs packets as fast as they come back or one hundred times per second, whichever is more. i think the 1.36 behaviour is the correct one. Can't comment on the fix having not looked at the code. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO . EMAIL: luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione HTTP://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 08:39:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08679 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08674 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:39:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06216; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:39:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <36B335B6.D7ED5601@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:39:18 -0700 From: Wes =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peters=D4?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=40=21=EA?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=80?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=EA?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=80=DD=E7?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=805=EA?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=C0?==?iso-8859-1?Q?=EA?= Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George Morgan CC: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-Release Net Install problem.. References: <199901291626.LAA24281@sable.cc.vt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org George Morgan wrote: > > When I boot from floppy to do an FTP install of 3.0-Release, the > process hangs while trying to init the adapter (stops at Add Default > Route) My adapter is an Intel PRO100B PCI. I've seen this on 3.0-R on a Trashiba Equuim 7000s with on-board Pro100B. The firs DMA to the chip fails to complete. I guess it hasn't been solved yet, huh? > George Morgan > Virginia Tech > Electrical Engineering > Class of 2000! You make me feel old. You were born about the time I was starting my senior year in high school. Ugh. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 11:16:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27382 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:16:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27377 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:16:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA08180; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma008176; Sat, 30 Jan 99 11:10:08 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA09983; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:10:08 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901301910.LAA09983@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <9165.917685127@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Jan 30, 99 09:32:07 am" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:10:08 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >The point is that you avoid having to parse ASCII strings > >for *every* control message. > > I simply don't understand why we can't have a single type of > controlmessage that means > > "Here is an ascii string to you from the super-user, do > whatever he tells you to, thankyou!" > > That's what I'm asking for, no more, no less. (why is this so hard to communicate) Are you saying you really don't understand, or you just weigh the priorities differently? The reason is: It's important that control message delivery between nodes be as fast as possible (read: no encoding/decoding between binary and ASCII for every message). This is so we can support situations where there are hundreds of these messages flying around per second, ie, for flow control or whatever. Maybe you don't care as much about this, but I do.. BUT, we can satisfy your need as well. We'll add a new base function: extern int ng_send_ascii_msg(node_p here, const char *path const char *asciimsg, struct ng_mesg **rptr); This function will simply do this: int ng_send_ascii_msg(ode_p here, const char *path const char *asciimsg, struct ng_mesg **rptr) { struct ng_mesg decode_msg, *decode_reply; int error; NG_MKMESSAGE(decode_msg, NGM_GENERIC_COOKIE, NGM_DECODE_MSG, asciimsg, strlen(asciimsg)); error = ng_send_msg(here, decode_msg, path, &decode_reply); if (error != 0) return(error); return (ng_send_msg(here, decode_reply, path, rptr)); } So the sender can chose how they want to encode their message. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 11:23:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28479 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28469 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:23:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10680; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:22:36 +0100 (CET) To: Archie Cobbs cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:10:08 PST." <199901301910.LAA09983@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:22:36 +0100 Message-ID: <10678.917724156@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199901301910.LAA09983@bubba.whistle.com>, Archie Cobbs writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >> >The point is that you avoid having to parse ASCII strings >> >for *every* control message. >> >> I simply don't understand why we can't have a single type of >> controlmessage that means >> >> "Here is an ascii string to you from the super-user, do >> whatever he tells you to, thankyou!" >> >> That's what I'm asking for, no more, no less. > >(why is this so hard to communicate) > >Are you saying you really don't understand, or you just weigh the >priorities differently? > >The reason is: > >It's important that control message delivery between nodes be as >fast as possible I'm not talking about control messages between nodes, I'm talking ONLY about control messages between ME as root via the ngctl program to some specific node, to get it to do something or other. >BUT, we can satisfy your need as well. We'll add a new base function: > > extern int ng_send_ascii_msg(node_p here, const char *path > const char *asciimsg, struct ng_mesg **rptr); That will do just fine, thankyou! Now I can write a ng module for something, distribute it in binary form only, and the users can still set option "water_pressure=4psi" or whatever they may need to set, without any hocus pocus with ELF sections and all that. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 11:51:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02881 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:51:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02869 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:51:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA08507; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma008499; Sat, 30 Jan 99 11:44:55 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA10242; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:44:54 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901301944.LAA10242@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <10678.917724156@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Jan 30, 99 08:22:36 pm" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:44:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >It's important that control message delivery between nodes be as > >fast as possible > > I'm not talking about control messages between nodes, I'm talking > ONLY about control messages between ME as root via the ngctl program > to some specific node, to get it to do something or other. OK, that makes sense. I think I wasn't clear before and we're actually saying more or less the same thing.. the main points being: o ngctl can take an ASCII command and deliver it as a control message to a node, without knowing any specifics of that node o 'normal' node to node messages are still sent in binary form o no fancy ELF sections or anything I was just saying that one way to do this without changing any of the *existing* mechanisms would simply be to add two *new* control messages that would be used exclusively by ngctl (and any other user program that wanted to), ie: NGM_ENCODE_CTRLMSG - takes ASCII and returns a binary ctrl message NGM_DECODE_CTRLMSG - takes a binary ctrl message and returns ASCII Then ngctl would use these as a way to translate ASCII <-> binary. Remeber, ngctl can't make netgraph function calls, it can only send control messages (and data) via its netgraph socket. Now, if you think it would be simpler to also have this control message: NGM_DELIVER_ASCII_CTRL_MSG - deliver a control message in ASCII form then I don't have a problem with that at all. My only point about it is that.. - It's redundant, because you can do the same thing with a NGM_ENCODE_CTRLMSG followed by sending the (binary) message - Saving time is not important for ngctl (which mainly interacts with humans). - You *still* would need NGM_ENCODE_CTRLMSG and NGM_DECODE_CTRLMSG in order to (for example) print out debugging traces dumps, etc. So this is just an implementation issue. > Now I can write a ng module for something, distribute it in binary > form only, and the users can still set option "water_pressure=4psi" > or whatever they may need to set, without any hocus pocus with ELF > sections and all that. Yes, being able to do this is *very* important I totally agree. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 12:20:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06382 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:20:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net ([208.2.87.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06371 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:20:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA43528; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:14:11 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:14:11 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth To: Archie Cobbs cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <199901301944.LAA10242@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Since we are all in (general) agreement that 1: The node-node messages are in binary 2: Only ngctl'ish programs need the ascii 3: Their traffic is "low volume" may I suggest moving much of this burden into (a library of) ngctl. Each node could be "read" to get the template for its binary control messages. The "bloat" of the actual parsing would be shifted to the parser which remains in the ngctl program (library). And if we could implement that in the node by "dumping" the contents of its ELF "message format" section. On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > >It's important that control message delivery between nodes be as > > >fast as possible > > > > I'm not talking about control messages between nodes, I'm talking > > ONLY about control messages between ME as root via the ngctl program > > to some specific node, to get it to do something or other. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 12:35:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08585 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:35:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08578 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:35:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA21983; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdR21979; Sat Jan 30 20:27:13 1999 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:27:10 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Archie Cobbs cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <199901301910.LAA09983@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > >The point is that you avoid having to parse ASCII strings > > >for *every* control message. > > > > I simply don't understand why we can't have a single type of > > controlmessage that means > > > > "Here is an ascii string to you from the super-user, do > > whatever he tells you to, thankyou!" > > > > That's what I'm asking for, no more, no less. > > (why is this so hard to communicate) > > Are you saying you really don't understand, or you just weigh the > priorities differently? > > The reason is: > > It's important that control message delivery between nodes be as > fast as possible (read: no encoding/decoding between binary and > ASCII for every message). This is so we can support situations > where there are hundreds of these messages flying around per second, > ie, for flow control or whatever. > > Maybe you don't care as much about this, but I do.. > > BUT, we can satisfy your need as well. We'll add a new base function: > > extern int ng_send_ascii_msg(node_p here, const char *path > const char *asciimsg, struct ng_mesg **rptr); > > This function will simply do this: > > int > ng_send_ascii_msg(ode_p here, const char *path > const char *asciimsg, struct ng_mesg **rptr) > { > struct ng_mesg decode_msg, *decode_reply; > int error; > > NG_MKMESSAGE(decode_msg, NGM_GENERIC_COOKIE, NGM_DECODE_MSG, > asciimsg, strlen(asciimsg)); > error = ng_send_msg(here, decode_msg, path, &decode_reply); > if (error != 0) > return(error); > return (ng_send_msg(here, decode_reply, path, rptr)); > } > > So the sender can chose how they want to encode their message. I'm afraid we're reaching an impass on this one Poul and I don't like it. I'm sure he understands what you are saying. (I can't give a reason, I just don't) I don't really want to see a parser in the kernel, but both your scheme and poul's (and one of mine) has it anyway, so if it's there, we might as well use it directly. My scheme to keep the parser OUT of the kernel and just use metadata from the node has also met with disaproval, so to my view the 'parser in the kernel' wins. It may be as simple as a single string parser or it may take argc,argv. that's a separate discussion. > > -Archie > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 12:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08785 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08780 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:37:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10976; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:37:10 +0100 (CET) To: Archie Cobbs cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:44:54 PST." <199901301944.LAA10242@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:37:10 +0100 Message-ID: <10974.917728630@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199901301944.LAA10242@bubba.whistle.com>, Archie Cobbs writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >> >It's important that control message delivery between nodes be as >> >fast as possible >> >> I'm not talking about control messages between nodes, I'm talking >> ONLY about control messages between ME as root via the ngctl program >> to some specific node, to get it to do something or other. > >OK, that makes sense. I think I wasn't clear before and we're >actually saying more or less the same thing.. the main points being: > > o ngctl can take an ASCII command and deliver it as a control > message to a node, without knowing any specifics of that node > > o 'normal' node to node messages are still sent in binary form > > o no fancy ELF sections or anything Check! you got a deal mate! >Now, if you think it would be simpler to also have this control message: > > NGM_DELIVER_ASCII_CTRL_MSG - deliver a control message in ASCII form > >then I don't have a problem with that at all. My only point about it >is that.. > > - It's redundant, because you can do the same thing with a > NGM_ENCODE_CTRLMSG followed by sending the (binary) message Why pass it around twice ? > - Saving time is not important for ngctl (which mainly interacts > with humans). exactly, but this saves code complexity. > - You *still* would need NGM_ENCODE_CTRLMSG and NGM_DECODE_CTRLMSG > in order to (for example) print out debugging traces dumps, etc. I think we should look at the tcpdump model for this. >> Now I can write a ng module for something, distribute it in binary >> form only, and the users can still set option "water_pressure=4psi" >> or whatever they may need to set, without any hocus pocus with ELF >> sections and all that. > >Yes, being able to do this is *very* important I totally agree. And making it simple to understand for programmers is equally important, otherwise they tend to figure out all sorts of weird workarounds for stuff they don't understand... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 12:41:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09767 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:41:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09755 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA22064; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdv22062; Sat Jan 30 20:30:39 1999 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:30:37 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Archie Cobbs , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <10678.917724156@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm amazed poul.. in this scheme you send the node the ascii message, it sends you the binary version, you then send the binary version back to it.. and it interprets it. There is a disconnection between the binary version sent back to you and the binary that is interpretted.. If you think this is ok, then I'm amazed but then ok, we can do it that way. On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <199901301910.LAA09983@bubba.whistle.com>, Archie Cobbs writes: > >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >> >The point is that you avoid having to parse ASCII strings > >> >for *every* control message. > >> > >> I simply don't understand why we can't have a single type of > >> controlmessage that means > >> > >> "Here is an ascii string to you from the super-user, do > >> whatever he tells you to, thankyou!" > >> > >> That's what I'm asking for, no more, no less. > > > >(why is this so hard to communicate) > > > >Are you saying you really don't understand, or you just weigh the > >priorities differently? > > > >The reason is: > > > >It's important that control message delivery between nodes be as > >fast as possible > > I'm not talking about control messages between nodes, I'm talking > ONLY about control messages between ME as root via the ngctl program > to some specific node, to get it to do something or other. > > >BUT, we can satisfy your need as well. We'll add a new base function: > > > > extern int ng_send_ascii_msg(node_p here, const char *path > > const char *asciimsg, struct ng_mesg **rptr); > > That will do just fine, thankyou! > > Now I can write a ng module for something, distribute it in binary > form only, and the users can still set option "water_pressure=4psi" > or whatever they may need to set, without any hocus pocus with ELF > sections and all that. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 12:44:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10070 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:44:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10064 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:44:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA11017; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:43:48 +0100 (CET) To: Julian Elischer cc: Archie Cobbs , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:27:10 PST." Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:43:48 +0100 Message-ID: <11015.917729028@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >I don't really want to see a parser in the kernel, but both your scheme >and poul's (and one of mine) has it anyway, so if it's there, we might as >well use it directly. ... And if we didn't put it there, people developing modules would create their own: "... if the first VLCIoid opened is 2.34.22, the physical media will be set to 1/2" copper tube, if it is 2.34.23 it will be 3/4" lead tube anything else will flood your basement..." or litter the place with sysctls and whatsnot... Yes, it is quite counter and not "come ill faux", but we will need it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 12:45:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10308 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:45:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10290 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA11032; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:44:55 +0100 (CET) To: Julian Elischer cc: Archie Cobbs , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:30:37 PST." Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:44:55 +0100 Message-ID: <11030.917729095@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message , Ju lian Elischer writes: >I'm amazed >poul.. in this scheme you send the node the ascii message, >it sends you the binary version, you then send the binary version back to >it.. and it interprets it. There is a disconnection between the binary >version sent back to you and the binary that is interpretted.. >If you think this is ok, then I'm amazed but then ok, we can do it that >way. Then I misunderstood archie, my version says: "Here, ASCII from root, do what he says!" End of story, nothing more. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 13:00:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12927 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:00:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12922 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:00:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22669; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from s204m82.isp.whistle.com(207.76.204.82) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpdz22654; Sat Jan 30 21:00:28 1999 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:00:24 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer X-Sender: julian@s204m82.isp.whistle.com To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Archie Cobbs , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <11030.917729095@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just to satisfy myself, did you see my suggestion about the userland interpretter using metadata supplied by the module to control the parsing.. each module would supply the equivalent of 'format strings' that said what to accept and where to pack it. You asked the module once for its list of acceptable format strings, and cache them. from then on anything sent there is parsed through the appropriate command description. this could be broadenned to ioctls in general if that were wanted.. Archie almost threw up, but to my mind it's still quite elegant. (you could even supply a dk_DK.iso8859-1 version of the meta-strings... :-) julian (doning his waterproofs) On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , Ju > lian Elischer writes: > >I'm amazed > >poul.. in this scheme you send the node the ascii message, > >it sends you the binary version, you then send the binary version back to > >it.. and it interprets it. There is a disconnection between the binary > >version sent back to you and the binary that is interpretted.. > >If you think this is ok, then I'm amazed but then ok, we can do it that > >way. > > Then I misunderstood archie, my version says: > > "Here, ASCII from root, do what he says!" > > End of story, nothing more. > > Poul-Henning > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 13:04:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13411 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13406 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:04:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11088; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:03:52 +0100 (CET) To: Julian Elischer cc: Archie Cobbs , net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:00:24 PST." Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:03:51 +0100 Message-ID: <11086.917730231@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah, I saw it, and I'm convince that no matter how smart we do it, it will end up being almost enough, and take up just as much space to code. Our current fear for ASCII in the kernel dates from when space was tight on PDP/11s for heavens sake, it is NOT rational in any way. Look at sysctl to understand where I'm coming from. Poul-Henning In message , Ju lian Elischer writes: >Just to satisfy myself, did you see my suggestion about the userland >interpretter using metadata supplied by the module to control the >parsing.. each module would supply the equivalent of 'format strings' >that said what to accept and where to pack it. >You asked the module once for its list of acceptable format strings, >and cache them. from then on anything sent there >is parsed through the appropriate command description. > >this could be broadenned to ioctls in general if that were wanted.. > >Archie almost threw up, but to my mind it's still quite elegant. > >(you could even supply a dk_DK.iso8859-1 version of the meta-strings... >:-) > >julian (doning his waterproofs) > >On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> In message , Ju >> lian Elischer writes: >> >I'm amazed >> >poul.. in this scheme you send the node the ascii message, >> >it sends you the binary version, you then send the binary version back to >> >it.. and it interprets it. There is a disconnection between the binary >> >version sent back to you and the binary that is interpretted.. >> >If you think this is ok, then I'm amazed but then ok, we can do it that >> >way. >> >> Then I misunderstood archie, my version says: >> >> "Here, ASCII from root, do what he says!" >> >> End of story, nothing more. >> >> Poul-Henning >> >> -- >> Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member >> phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." >> FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message >> > > -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 13:29:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16523 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:29:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16516 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA09270; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma009268; Sat, 30 Jan 99 13:21:39 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA10729; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:21:39 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901302121.NAA10729@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <11086.917730231@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Jan 30, 99 10:03:51 pm" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:21:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > Yeah, I saw it, and I'm convince that no matter how smart we do it, > it will end up being almost enough, and take up just as much space > to code. That's what I said too. Also, why invent a new language for specifying the translation? That's another step away from KISS. Anyway, I think we almost all agree :-) See how this sounds. We add three new control messages: NGM_ASCII_CTRL_MSG NGM_ENCODE_ASCII NGM_DECODE_ASCII NGM_ASCII_CTRL_MSG takes an ASCII formatted control message as argument. The node parses it and takes the corresponding action. NGM_ENCODE_ASCII and NGM_DECODE_ASCII convert between ASCII and binary formats for a control message. It is completely up to the node how it wants to implement this stuff, but it could look something like this.. static struct ng_mesg *my_private_decoder(const char *string); static char *my_private_encoder(const struct ng_mesg *msg); int my_rcv_ctrl_msg_method(node_p here, struct ng_mesg *msg, .... ) { ... case NGM_ASCII_CTRL_MSG: struct ng_mesg *binary_msg = my_private_decoder(msg->data); error = my_rcv_ctrl_msg_method(here, binary_msg, ... ) break; case NGM_DECODE_ASCII: struct ng_mesg *binary_msg = my_private_decoder(string); NG_MKRESPONSE(resp, ... ) bcopy(resp->data, binary_msg, msglen); break; case NGM_ENCODE_ASCII: char *ascii; ascii = my_private_encoder((struct ng_mesg *) msg->data); NG_MKRESPONSE(resp, ... ) bcopy(resp->data, ascii, strlen(ascii) + 1); break; ... } Now notice, if we exported my_private_decoder() and my_private_encoder() as normal node methods, then the NGM_ASCII_CTRL_MSG case could be completely handled by the generic code, and individual nodes would not even have to directly handle it. I think this would be the simplest way to do it.. thoughts? -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 13:44:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18787 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:44:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18774 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:44:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA09469; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com( 207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V2.0) id xma009465; Sat, 30 Jan 99 13:43:03 -0800 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA10793; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:43:03 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199901302143.NAA10793@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: from Richard Wackerbarth at "Jan 30, 99 02:14:11 pm" To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:43:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Richard Wackerbarth writes: > Since we are all in (general) agreement that > 1: The node-node messages are in binary > 2: Only ngctl'ish programs need the ascii > 3: Their traffic is "low volume" > > may I suggest moving much of this burden into > (a library of) ngctl. > > Each node could be "read" to get the template > for its binary control messages. The "bloat" of > the actual parsing would be shifted to the parser > which remains in the ngctl program (library). > > And if we could implement that in the node by > "dumping" the contents of its ELF "message format" section. Well, we talked about that before (in private email) and came to the conclusion that anything requiring finagling with ELF sections was too complicated. Nobody prefers having ASCII parsing code in the kernel, but it's worth the tradeoff if it buys you the ability to keep the parsing code and the rest of the node type code together. However, if someday it becomes easy to do all of this: - Compile the encoding/decoding code into a separate ELF section - Have kldload() not load the extra ELF section (it probably already does this) - Have ngctl dynamically find and link in the type's ELF section containing the encode/decode routines Then it might be worthwhile.. I think #1 and #3 are hard though (or at least, rather complicated). -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 13:59:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20655 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nomad.dataplex.net ([208.2.87.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20610 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:59:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from localhost (rkw@localhost) by nomad.dataplex.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA46305; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:57:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:57:35 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Wackerbarth To: Archie Cobbs cc: net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-Reply-To: <199901302143.NAA10793@bubba.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Archie Cobbs wrote: > Richard Wackerbarth writes: > > Since we are all in (general) agreement that > > 1: The node-node messages are in binary > > 2: Only ngctl'ish programs need the ascii > > 3: Their traffic is "low volume" > > > > may I suggest moving much of this burden into > > (a library of) ngctl. > > > > Each node could be "read" to get the template > > for its binary control messages. The "bloat" of > > the actual parsing would be shifted to the parser > > which remains in the ngctl program (library). > > > > And if we could implement that in the node by > > "dumping" the contents of its ELF "message format" section. > > Well, we talked about that before (in private email) and came > to the conclusion that anything requiring finagling with ELF > sections was too complicated. Certainly not necessary to have them in separate sections. However, I don't expect that to remain difficult. Once the mind-set is broken and the kernel starts to really use some of the capabilities of ELF, it should be easy to do. > > Nobody prefers having ASCII parsing code in the kernel, but > it's worth the tradeoff if it buys you the ability to keep > the parsing code and the rest of the node type code together. By having the parsing meta-data delivered as a string from the node, you can assure that the encoder matches the node. I assume that this is the binding that concerns folks. (Making sure that the right parser is available) > However, if someday it becomes easy to do all of this: > > - Compile the encoding/decoding code into a separate ELF section > - Have kldload() not load the extra ELF section (it probably > already does this) > - Have ngctl dynamically find and link in the type's ELF section > containing the encode/decode routines > > Then it might be worthwhile.. I think #1 and #3 are hard though > (or at least, rather complicated). Dynamic extensions to language parsers are rather common these days. That is effectively what I would expect to see in the ngctl library. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-net Sat Jan 30 23:42:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24672 for freebsd-net-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:42:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24667 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:42:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12976; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:41:34 +0100 (CET) To: Archie Cobbs cc: julian@whistle.com, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: netgraph... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:21:39 PST." <199901302121.NAA10729@bubba.whistle.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:41:34 +0100 Message-ID: <12974.917768494@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199901302121.NAA10729@bubba.whistle.com>, Archie Cobbs writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >> Yeah, I saw it, and I'm convince that no matter how smart we do it, >> it will end up being almost enough, and take up just as much space >> to code. > >That's what I said too. Also, why invent a new language for >specifying the translation? That's another step away from KISS. > >Anyway, I think we almost all agree :-) See how this sounds. > >We add three new control messages: > > NGM_ASCII_CTRL_MSG > NGM_ENCODE_ASCII > NGM_DECODE_ASCII > >NGM_ASCII_CTRL_MSG takes an ASCII formatted control message as argument. >The node parses it and takes the corresponding action. Agree. >NGM_ENCODE_ASCII and NGM_DECODE_ASCII convert between ASCII and >binary formats for a control message. Still not sure about these. I think debugging decoding belongs in userspace. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message