From owner-freebsd-small Mon Oct 4 9:52:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.efcocorp.com (www.efcocorp.com [12.29.12.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F319515149 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ccoleman@efcocorp.com) Received: (qmail 31635 invoked by alias); 4 Oct 1999 16:52:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 31585 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 16:52:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO efcocorp.com) (unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 16:52:41 -0000 Message-ID: <37F8951D.FCC943DF@efcocorp.com> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:53:01 +0000 From: Chris Coleman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: ko, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Gordon Cc: Jeff Harris , freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help... heh. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This would make a great article for Daemon News. I know Lots of poeple would like to know how to make Diskless machines. Andrew Gordon wrote: > > On Sat, 2 Oct 1999, Jeff Harris wrote: > > > Well, so I've been charged (well, okay, this is the way I want to do it), > > with making 100+ BSD-based machines all play server on our network, and it > > seems to me that installing freebsd onto all 100+ machines (We could easily > > scale to 500 or more) would make administrative duties a nightmare. > > 500+ PCs is probably a nightmare whichever way you do it... > > > The machines in question are big pIII/500's with 1gig+ of ram each, 100mbit > > ethernet, etc. They're fast. My question is, where do I start looking for > > info. I've seen lots of diskless stuff (well, okay, a few things) but these > > machines aren't totally diskless. They at least have a floppy. > > Documentation is a bit confusing, as there are several different ways to > do diskless booting, and even more ways to arrange the configuration after > the initial boot stage. > > The state of the art on first-stage booting appears to be > ports/net/etherboot (pending future developments in /sys/boot). Or you > can probably still use the old /sys/i386/boot/netboot stuff if you build > an a.out kernel - haven't tried it lately. > > Both of these are designed to boot from ROM, but if you really want to use > those floppy drives, netboot or etherboot will compile a version that will > run off a DOS floppy. Or you can boot a kernel of the floppy as for a > normal local-disk setup but then mount an NFS root. > > The /etc/rc.diskless[12] stuff (and associated notes in > /usr/share/examples/diskless) gives you one way to go for configuration, > though it required a small amount of hacking for my requirements. > > > Anyone have any tips or pointers on where to look at? I think this is the > > direction I should move, as opposed to loading fbsd on each machine, running > > cvsup's on all of them and ssh'ing into each one to do a make world (or > > at least make installworld), and rsyncing our software (which is only > > apache-based). > > Another variation is CDROM boot/CDROM root. While you don't want CDROM > drives to be constantly active (for reliability reasons), in applications > which just load one application and keep on running it this can work well > - the application and its files get cached in RAM and stay there, with the > CD drive idle. I use this in a manufacturing test application - this way, > there's nothing in the test stations that can possibly go corrupt even > with the operators maltreating them (cutting the power etc). Test results > get saved over the network to a machine away from the factory floor. And > it's good for version control too: if I issue the right number of CDs, and > demand return of the old ones, there's no chance of old versions of > software getting used by accident. > > Drop me a line if you want sample config files or suchlike for any of > this. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message -- Chris Coleman Daemon News Editor in Chief http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD Together. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Oct 4 9:58:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.dcnv.com (mail.dcnv.com [216.33.117.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506CB14A13 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:58:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeff@mail.dcnv.com) Received: (from jeff@localhost) by mail.dcnv.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23729 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:02:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jeff) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:02:41 -0500 From: Jeff Harris To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: diskless help Message-ID: <19991004120241.A23557@dcnv.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks to all of you who wrote back on my little problem, I think I'm going to go have a look at the rc.diskless stuff and maybe look into putting seperate ethernet controllers in each machine (One which can be outfitted with a bootprom (and is supported :) and one for the outside interface (fast 3com 905 or intel etherexpress pro 10/100). The Etherboot package looked kinda neat. This makes more since.. I hate waiting for floppies to load when I'm installing. I just didn't think about making them totally diskless... Are there facilities for tftping a root partition and loading it into a ramdisk? That way, I could throw in /usr and /var too and not worry about 500 machines trying to nfsmount the root partition... I'll let ya'll know how I make out... I'm sure I'll have some other questions... Again, thanks all for the help. :) -- --- ---------------------------------------- Jeff Harris - Unix and Network Guy DigitalConvergence.Com - jeff@dcnv.com ----------------------------------- mOo! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Oct 9 3:13:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from web604.mail.yahoo.com (web604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F21A714DF0 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jakecurry@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19991009101330.29549.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.199.74.122] by web604.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 03:13:30 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:13:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Curry Subject: debugging crunched programs To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to build a custom PicoBSD floppy with some programs that aren't in any of the 'standard' distributions. Specifically, I'm trying to get altq-2.0 working on my PicoBSD router. [If anyone has tried this, I'd appreciate hearing the results]. In order to get altq working, I had to add a few new options to my kernel config file, and added the necessary lines to crunch.conf for the 'altqd' daemon. The build went fine, and the system acts normal, except that altqd segfaults sometime after it has begun initialization but before it starts doing any real work. I don't have a clue what the problem is -- I don't know if it is a problem with some kernel option, the crunching process, or something completely unrelated. So, my questions are: - How do you normally debug PicoBSD programs? I'm sure this kind of thing has happened to people before. Aside from littering the code with printf's, are there any viable options? I have a altqd.core file which I can take to another system, but what do I do with it? does it match up with $DIST/crunch1/crunch1? - Can I get debugging symbols in any of this? I'm guessing that would make it way too big for a floppy, but I'm don't think a core and debugger would be much help without them. - If I suspected that the crunch process was incompatible with some program, how would I go about getting a non-crunched version on there? When I grabbed the binary straight off my desktop and ran it on Pico, it complained about ld_elf.so not existing. Is there a way I can link the program to get it to run on PicoBSD? (yes, I'm sure I could figure this one out for myself if I weren't so tired :'() Of course, if anyone has suggestions on what the specific problem is, I'm quite open to suggestions... Thanks, Jake ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Oct 9 5:28:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freja.webgiro.com (freja.webgiro.com [212.209.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8505714F70 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 05:28:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EB2521925; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:28:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E815C49DB; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:28:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:28:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Jake Curry Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: debugging crunched programs In-Reply-To: <19991009101330.29549.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Jake Curry wrote: > - How do you normally debug PicoBSD programs? I'm sure this kind of > thing has happened to people before. Aside from littering the code > with printf's, are there any viable options? I have a altqd.core file > which I can take to another system, but what do I do with it? does it > match up with $DIST/crunch1/crunch1? > > - Can I get debugging symbols in any of this? I'm guessing that would > make it way too big for a floppy, but I'm don't think a core and > debugger would be much help without them. Yes, that's true. What I'm doing is to prepare the debuggng kenel and crunch with debugging symbols (which of course are waaaay to big for any floppy except for LS120), and then just start the machine with this kernel and MFS image loaded from hard disk (see the standard boot floppy for the right incantations). Then I mount my hard disk filesystem and if I get a coredump, I simply copy it to that FS for analysis. You can even start gdb if you set your paths correctly. > - If I suspected that the crunch process was incompatible with some > program, how would I go about getting a non-crunched version on there? > When I grabbed the binary straight off my desktop and ran it on Pico, > it complained about ld_elf.so not existing. Is there a way I can link > the program to get it to run on PicoBSD? (yes, I'm sure I could figure > this one out for myself if I weren't so tired :'() Erm, well... Have you heard of static binaries? :-) Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Oct 9 14:12: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ABF6F150D0 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jakecurry@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19991009211209.3868.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.199.74.122] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 14:12:09 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:12:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Curry Subject: Re: debugging crunched programs To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --- Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > Erm, well... Have you heard of static binaries? :-) Heh... I had a feeling that's what it was. After a nice long nap, I tried running a non-crunched and statically linked altqd and it worked perfectly. I'm still not sure why the crunched version wouldn't work. Once I get the floppy-based version working well enough to completely replace the regular FreeBSD install on the router's hard disk, I'll try out your suggestions for debugging crunched programs and see if I can figure out why. Thanks! Jake ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Oct 9 14:21: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freja.webgiro.com (freja.webgiro.com [212.209.29.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94E3A154B2 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:20:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D11031925; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:20:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freja.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE11649CF; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:20:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:20:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Jake Curry Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: debugging crunched programs In-Reply-To: <19991009211209.3868.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Jake Curry wrote: > --- Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > Erm, well... Have you heard of static binaries? :-) > > Heh... I had a feeling that's what it was. After a nice long nap, I > tried running a non-crunched and statically linked altqd and it worked > perfectly. I'm still not sure why the crunched version wouldn't work. > Once I get the floppy-based version working well enough to completely > replace the regular FreeBSD install on the router's hard disk, I'll try > out your suggestions for debugging crunched programs and see if I can > figure out why. Thanks! crunchgen uses static libraries (*.a, not *.so.*), but when you run your normal dynamic binaries, you use shared libs. Perhaps the linker used older (or incompatible) version of some *.a lib when creating the crunch? Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message