From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 1 8:37: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [195.197.32.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D6514E2A; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 08:36:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsdisp@shadows.aeon.net) Received: (from bsdisp@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.9.3/8.8.3) id SAA60402; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:38:04 +0200 (EET) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <200001011638.SAA60402@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo In-Reply-To: <386D0764.29C12FD4@pipeline.ch> from Andre Oppermann at "Dec 31, 1999 08:43:32 pm" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 18:38:04 +0200 (EET) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > $ uname -a > FreeBSD xxx.pipeline.ch 2.2.5-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE > $ uptime > 8:29PM up 492 days, 15:31, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 thought i'd add my contribution too... fire% uname -a FreeBSD fire 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Dec 16 21:37:18 EET 1997 root@fire:/usr/src/sys/compile/FIRE i386 fire% uptime 2:15AM up 745 days, 22:23, 1 user, load averages: 0.05, 0.01, 0.00 fire% it's weekend, machine's not doing much. and i _was_ slightly unaware what would happen. since i tested y2k with its sistermachine, i'm sure the bios will not blow up if i have to reboot. oh, and i thought people say "dont use current on production". :> the machine was physically installed that particular day, dec 16th. and i've seen loads as high as 2-3 in times... whoops, the clock has drifted slightly, it thinks it's already jan 2nd. happy new year and patience in waiting still another year until the hype millennium comes... =) mickey -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 1 12:52:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from makeworld.com (makeworld.com [208.192.111.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F56E14BF2; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:52:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bitsurfer@makeworld.com) Received: from wildrock (207-229-172-200.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.200]) by makeworld.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA00592; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:52:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from bitsurfer@makeworld.com) Reply-To: From: "Chris Silva" To: "Misc@Openbsd. Org" Cc: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD. ORG" , "advocacy@FreeBSD. ORG" Subject: For a snicker Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:52:37 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For a snicker, www.terraserver.com Best regards, Chris _____________________________________________________________________ DH/DSS Fingerprint = 8265 0BB8 2C7D A376 3CCD 6858 8630 0E47 194A 0318 RSA Key Fingerprint = 4390 44E5 E316 F2AA A11E 5755 F3F9 D69B PGP Mail encouraged / preferred - keys available on common key servers _____________________________________________________________________ Proud supporter of FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 1 13:28: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA2815140; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:27:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [204.68.178.39] (helo=softweyr.com) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 124W44-0007w4-00; Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:27:56 -0700 Message-ID: <386E7200.84F4440F@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:30:40 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitsurfer@makeworld.com Cc: "Misc@Openbsd. Org" , "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD. ORG" , "advocacy@FreeBSD. ORG" Subject: Re: For a snicker References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Silva wrote: > > For a snicker, www.terraserver.com Isn't this a Microsquish-sponsored NT/IIS installation? Nice to see they have so thoroughly checked their ecommerce systems for Y2K problems. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 1 22:55:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.thuntek.net (mail2.thuntek.net [206.206.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D53614D09; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:55:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-009.thuntek.net [207.66.52.9]) by mail2.thuntek.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01895; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:54:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Message-ID: <386EF6C2.B67A0757@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:57:06 -0700 From: Donald Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@thuntek.net Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitsurfer@makeworld.com Cc: "Misc@Openbsd. Org" , "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD. ORG" , "advocacy@FreeBSD. ORG" Subject: Re: For a snicker References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG love the date! Neat site, though, isot bug. -- Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 1 22:56:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.thuntek.net (mail2.thuntek.net [206.206.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E15F614EF0; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:56:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-009.thuntek.net [207.66.52.9]) by mail2.thuntek.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02056; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:56:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Message-ID: <386EF721.A59BEC5B@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 23:58:41 -0700 From: Donald Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@thuntek.net Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitsurfer@makeworld.com Cc: "Misc@Openbsd. Org" , "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD. ORG" , "advocacy@FreeBSD. ORG" Subject: Re: For a snicker References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.asp?T=1&S=14&X=109&Y=1219&Z=13&W=0&mscssid= -- Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 3 6:17:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pilot013.cl.msu.edu (pilot013.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10643150A2; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 06:17:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andres@msu.edu) Received: from andres (port32.annarbor01.tir.com [216.40.148.171]) by pilot013.cl.msu.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA46042; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 09:17:15 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000103091620.00a9dc80@pilot.msu.edu> X-Sender: andres@pilot.msu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:16:20 -0500 To: "Misc@Openbsd. Org" From: "STeve Andre'" Subject: snicker, part II Cc: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD. ORG" , "advocacy@FreeBSD. ORG" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know this is off topic. Mea Culpa. Look at this site now. I'm keeping copies of the title page... --STeve At 02:52 PM 1/1/2000 -0600, Chris Silva wrote: >For a snicker, www.terraserver.com > >Best regards, > Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 4 0:17:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779A815451 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:17:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@wintelcom.net) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07401 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:40:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:40:46 -0800 (PST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: UNIX speaker needed (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just because a lot of you aren't sub'd to -questions. -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@rush.net|alfred@freebsd.org] Wintelcom systems administrator and programmer - http://www.wintelcom.net/ [bright@wintelcom.net] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 00:23:03 -0600 From: Leland Riffel To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: UNIX speaker needed Dear Sir: Would KULUA be able to provide a speaker for the UNIX SIG the 2nd Monday of the month from 6:00-8:00 p.m. to be held at PVI 95th and Metcalf in Overland Park, Ks? The regular meetings will not start until January 10 of 2000. Come tell us about your organization. Or any subject within your organizations interest. We are liberal on the stasrting time as well. Thanks Lee 913 897 3854 (H) 816 329 3608 (W) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 4 16: 3:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 6B85914E3A; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF621CD42F; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:03:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:03:45 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Barrett Richardson Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Barrett Richardson wrote: > Couldn't resist taking a picture of my uptimes (in case they fall > victim to a power outage). The Webserver and Shell Server are lower > than the others because of Stupid Admin Tricks. You should submit these to the server uptimes project, if you haven't already done so. Boosting our stats is a good thing :-) Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 4 16:16:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peppermint.national.com.au (peppermint.national.com.au [203.57.240.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0D214CA1; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nconedd@peppermint.national.com.au) Received: (from nconedd@localhost) by peppermint.national.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA13384; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:16:50 +1100 (EST) From: Enno Davids Message-Id: <200001050016.LAA13384@peppermint.national.com.au> Subject: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 5 Jan 100 11:16:50 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0a3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG recently the electrons shaped the message.... | | You should submit these to the server uptimes project, if you haven't | already done so. Boosting our stats is a good thing :-) | Guys, can we halt this thread please. What little interest it had is now gone. It is after all just the OS equivalent of a bunch of guys whipping out their 'old fellas' and comparing length. Yes we're all bigger than NT. I'd certainly hope so though! Enno. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 4 20:33:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 9D94515229; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A9BE1CD44C; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:33:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:33:39 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Enno Davids Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo In-Reply-To: <200001050016.LAA13384@peppermint.national.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 5 Jan 100, Enno Davids wrote: > Guys, can we halt this thread please. What little interest it had is now > gone. It is after all just the OS equivalent of a bunch of guys whipping > out their 'old fellas' and comparing length. Yes we're all bigger than NT. > I'd certainly hope so though! Perpetuating the cross-posting to -isp was bad (sorry), but showing off our penis size to the world is what we do over here in -advocacy :-) Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 4 23: 5:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3141537E; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:05:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [204.68.178.39] (helo=softweyr.com ident=wes) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 125kVO-0007n5-00; Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:05:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3872EDE0.112FE4A1@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:08:16 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Enno Davids , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Wed, 5 Jan 100, Enno Davids wrote: > > > Guys, can we halt this thread please. What little interest it had is now > > gone. It is after all just the OS equivalent of a bunch of guys whipping > > out their 'old fellas' and comparing length. Yes we're all bigger than NT. > > I'd certainly hope so though! > > Perpetuating the cross-posting to -isp was bad (sorry), but showing off > our penis size to the world is what we do over here in -advocacy :-) OK, Kris, stand at the end of the keyboard and WHACK! qazwsxedcrftvbyghnuijmkol,p.[/' Damn! Laptop's too short! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 4 23:38:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (sol.cc.u-szeged.hu [160.114.8.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE9414A24 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:38:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu) Received: from petra.hos.u-szeged.hu by sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id IAA05307; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:38:59 +0100 (MET) Received: by petra.hos.u-szeged.hu (Linux Smail3.2.0.92 #1) id m125l2t-000oo7C; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 07:39:51 +0000 () Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:39:50 +0100 From: Szilveszter Adam To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uptimes, and then some:-) Message-ID: <20000105083950.A21125@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200001050016.LAA13384@peppermint.national.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jan 04, 2000 at 08:33:39PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Perpetuating the cross-posting to -isp was bad (sorry), but showing off > our penis size to the world is what we do over here in -advocacy :-) Could we include that in the list charters, please? So that newbies and other interested parties know, what we are about:-) Regards: Sz. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Szilveszter ADAM * JATE Szeged * email: sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu * * Homepage : none * alternate email: cc@flanker.itl.net.ua * * Finger sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu for PGP key. * * I prefer using the door instead of Windows(tm)... * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 5 5:53:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from engine2.dhivehinet.net.mv (engine2.dhivehinet.net.mv [202.1.192.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6190115314 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 05:53:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Received: from summoner ([202.1.193.104]) by engine2.dhivehinet.net.mv (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58493U3000L300S0V35) with SMTP id mv; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:53:04 +0500 Message-ID: <000401bf5784$273445e0$68c101ca@summoner> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: "Wes Peters" Cc: , References: <3872EDE0.112FE4A1@softweyr.com> Subject: offtopic: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:50:04 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: Wes Peters To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Enno Davids ; Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 12:08 PM Subject: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo *snip* Not to nitpick, but I just couldn't help wondering what kinda keyboard layout you have. Just take a look at a normal QWERTY keyboard's layout, and the string created as a result of this 'test' and you'll see what I mean... :) > > OK, Kris, stand at the end of the keyboard and WHACK! > > qazwsxedcrftvbyghnuijmkol,p.[/' > > Damn! Laptop's too short! > *snip* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 5 6:10:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A53901538A; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 06:10:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08116; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:10:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) From: Michael Lucas Message-Id: <200001051410.JAA08116@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: offtopic: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo In-Reply-To: <000401bf5784$273445e0$68c101ca@summoner> from Haikal Saadh at "Jan 5, 2000 6:50: 4 pm" To: wyldephyre2@yahoo.com (Haikal Saadh) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:10:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: wes@softweyr.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, kris@hub.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You know, Wes asked me some time ago to join -advocacy. I found some free time, did so. And the first thread I see involves him smacking a keyboard. You know, Wes, I would have joined this group quite some time ago if I'd known what it was *really* about. ObContent: The GPL has a variety of license documents, explaining why it's good and what it's for. Is there such an article about the BSDL that I can point people to? ==ml > *snip* > > Not to nitpick, but I just couldn't help wondering what kinda keyboard > layout you have. > Just take a look at a normal QWERTY keyboard's layout, and the string > created as a result of this 'test' and you'll see what I mean... > :) > > > > > OK, Kris, stand at the end of the keyboard and WHACK! > > > > qazwsxedcrftvbyghnuijmkol,p.[/' > > > > Damn! Laptop's too short! > > > *snip* > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 5 7:36:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wondermutt.net (host75-157.student.udel.edu [128.175.75.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A34153F2; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 07:36:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from papalia@udel.edu) Received: from morgaine (nyf-ny15-36.ix.netcom.com [198.211.19.164]) by wondermutt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA29157; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:38:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from papalia@udel.edu) Message-Id: <4.1.20000105103149.00969e00@mail.udel.edu> X-Sender: papalia@mail.udel.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:36:50 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: John Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey all, I was hoping someone could point me in the correct direction. To try to bolster my case to create a FreeBSD-based network in the company I'm working for, I need to be able to "prove" that there is in fact Unix help out there, that is readily available. The argument I'm being given is that "I can get an NT guy anywhere", but they have no experience with getting Unix help, except for one god-awful AIX box we're running. I've been to: http://www.freebsd.org/commercial/consulting.html http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/freebsd/consultants.html Simply put, I'm trying to find a company located in the Philadelphia-ish region of the country that can offer initial consultantion services (beyond myself), but can also offer say.... 8am-8PM tech support in case of crashes, emergencies, etc, at times when the currently assigned personnell might not be available. Any hints or directions that can be offered would be great!!!! Thanks in advance, John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 5 11:23: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from azazel.zer0.org (azazel.zer0.org [209.133.53.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A95BB1541E; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:22:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@azazel.zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by azazel.zer0.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id LAA68386; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:20:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:20:55 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Wes Peters Cc: Kris Kennaway , Enno Davids , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo Message-ID: <20000105112055.A68135@azazel.zer0.org> References: <3872EDE0.112FE4A1@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <3872EDE0.112FE4A1@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Wed, Jan 05, 2000 at 12:08:16AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jan 05, 2000 at 12:08:16AM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Wed, 5 Jan 100, Enno Davids wrote: > > > > > Guys, can we halt this thread please. What little interest it had is now > > > gone. It is after all just the OS equivalent of a bunch of guys whipping > > > out their 'old fellas' and comparing length. Yes we're all bigger than NT. > > > I'd certainly hope so though! > > > > Perpetuating the cross-posting to -isp was bad (sorry), but showing off > > our penis size to the world is what we do over here in -advocacy :-) > > OK, Kris, stand at the end of the keyboard and WHACK! > > qazwsxedcrftvbyghnuijmkol,p.[/' > > Damn! Laptop's too short! Use a full-size keyboard, then! qazwsxdecrfvgbthnyujmik,ol.;/p'[]\741852*963+- Oops, nevermind. Maybe we could find some Windows users someplace that could use just the numeric keypad and not run out of space. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Bureaucrats cut red tape -- lengthwise. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 5 13:23:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailx2.dacom.co.kr (mailx2.dacom.co.kr [203.252.3.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588E014D9D for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:23:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nobreak@hongik.com) Received: from hongik.com ([210.124.149.236]) by mailx2.dacom.co.kr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA27856 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 06:21:17 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <3873B666.D1FC743A@hongik.com> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 06:23:50 +0900 From: Seung-young Kim Reply-To: nobreak@hongik.com Organization: Hongik Internet, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: ko,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Another FreeBSD Mailing Archive System is Ready to Run!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=EUC-KR Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... Due to a few little problems I feel related searching and finding past messages, I made the other mailing archive system for FreeBSD circle. o http://www2.kr.freebsd.org/mlarc/ For a single case, I set only regular mailing lists. I hope you enjoy this... Any comments are welcomed... @ Regards -- Seung-young Kim http://www.hongik.com Enable your web site with Hongik Internet, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 6 0:26:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from falla.videotron.net (falla.videotron.net [205.151.222.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6216414C30; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:26:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@videotron.ca) Received: from videotron.ca ([24.200.46.252]) by falla.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0FNW006BANGFWC@falla.videotron.net>; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 03:26:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 03:25:49 -0500 From: Malartre Subject: "...widely acclaimed OS projects of the modern era." To: www@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <3874518D.FE16240@videotron.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.freebsd.org/news/press.html You could add: http://www.apple.com/macosx/inside.html "The system’s kernel, which does the heavy lifting to support all those rich applications, is based on Mach 3.0 from Carnegie-Mellon University and FreeBSD 3.2 (derived from the University of California at Berkeley’s BSD 4.4-Lite), the most highly regarded core technologies from two of the most widely acclaimed OS projects of the modern era." I like their wording ;-) Malartre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 6 14:15:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from s01.arpa-canada.net (s01.arpa-canada.net [216.95.146.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10FB315775 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:14:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@BabCom.ORG) Received: by s01.arpa-canada.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 53463B885; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:14:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by s01.arpa-canada.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5096E10 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:14:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: matt X-Sender: matt@s01.arpa-canada.net To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Possible idea to raise funds. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear Members, I have thought of perhaps a way to raise some funds for the FreeBSD project. I was thinking, why not sell pop3, @freebsd.org e-mail accounts. I don't know about how popular it would be, but I would definately buy one, and I think it would be a good way to get the name out some more. What do you think? Please, no flames, this is merely an idea that I would enjoy. Matt -- "If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the...the gene pool, they'd a stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea. Hell, I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated." -Sheridan, "A Distant Star" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 6 14:26:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A232014CB1 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:26:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02503; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:26:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: matt Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible idea to raise funds. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:14:11 EST." Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:26:32 -0800 Message-ID: <2501.947197592@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have thought of perhaps a way to raise some funds for the FreeBSD > project. I was thinking, why not sell pop3, @freebsd.org e-mail > accounts. I don't know about how popular it would be, but I would > definately buy one, and I think it would be a good way to get the > name out some more. What do you think? FreeBSD.org accounts are already sort of the "executive perk" of those who care enough about FreeBSD to volunteer their labor, either as docs, ports or src committers. Not to say that this alone has been their incentive, but hey, they're volunteers and there are so few tangible things one gets as a volunteer that each and every one counts for something. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 6 14:59:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.thuntek.net (mail2.thuntek.net [206.206.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79DCF15169 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-147.thuntek.net [207.66.52.147]) by mail2.thuntek.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29736; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Message-ID: <38751F31.82E70471@thuntek.net> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:03:13 -0700 From: Donald Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@thuntek.net Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: matt , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible idea to raise funds. References: <2501.947197592@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > I have thought of perhaps a way to raise some funds for the FreeBSD > > project. I was thinking, why not sell pop3, @freebsd.org e-mail > > accounts. I don't know about how popular it would be, but I would > > definately buy one, and I think it would be a good way to get the > > name out some more. What do you think? > > FreeBSD.org accounts are already sort of the "executive perk" of those > who care enough about FreeBSD to volunteer their labor, either as > docs, ports or src committers. Not to say that this alone has been > their incentive, but hey, they're volunteers and there are so few > tangible things one gets as a volunteer that each and every one counts > for something. :) > So how about so-n-so@members.freebsd.org? or something like that? -- Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 6 16:56:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077AF14CED for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:56:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id QAA12416; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:50:47 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA03200; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:50:47 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com [198.206.184.237]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id QAA19294; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:49:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38753925.C30D57B@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:53:57 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) References: <200001051410.JAA08116@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas wrote: > > You know, Wes asked me some time ago to join -advocacy. I found some > free time, did so. > > And the first thread I see involves him smacking a keyboard. > > You know, Wes, I would have joined this group quite some time ago if > I'd known what it was *really* about. It's about time you showed up here. Where's your keyboard print? > ObContent: The GPL has a variety of license documents, explaining why > it's good and what it's for. Is there such an article about the BSDL > that I can point people to? Yeah, straight from the horse's^W^W Kirk McKusick: http://www.sendmail.net/?CssUID=&CssServer=&SessionName=&feed=interview004 "you had copyright, which is what the big companies use to lock everything up; you had copyleft, which is free software's way of making sure they can't lock it up; and then Berkeley had what we called "copycenter," which is "take it down to the copy center and make as many copies as you want." You want to go off and do proprietary things with it? Fine, you can do that. You want to keep it out in the Open Source domain? You're welcome to do that as well." -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 6 18:31:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from intranova.net (blacklisted.intranova.net [209.3.31.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D86F15115 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:31:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oogali@intranova.net) Received: (qmail 3793 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2000 21:25:53 -0000 Received: from hydrant.intranova.net (user70546@209.201.95.10) by blacklisted.intranova.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2000 21:25:53 -0000 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:22:12 -0500 (EST) From: Omachonu Ogali To: Donald Wilde Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , matt , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible idea to raise funds. In-Reply-To: <38751F31.82E70471@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why bother to add the clutter and load? Omachonu Ogali Intranova Networking Group On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Donald Wilde wrote: > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > > I have thought of perhaps a way to raise some funds for the FreeBSD > > > project. I was thinking, why not sell pop3, @freebsd.org e-mail > > > accounts. I don't know about how popular it would be, but I would > > > definately buy one, and I think it would be a good way to get the > > > name out some more. What do you think? > > > > FreeBSD.org accounts are already sort of the "executive perk" of those > > who care enough about FreeBSD to volunteer their labor, either as > > docs, ports or src committers. Not to say that this alone has been > > their incentive, but hey, they're volunteers and there are so few > > tangible things one gets as a volunteer that each and every one counts > > for something. :) > > > So how about so-n-so@members.freebsd.org? or something like that? > -- > Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" > ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== > PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 6 22:20:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from makeworld.com (makeworld.com [208.192.111.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E68FE14F72 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:20:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bitsurfer@enteract.com) Received: from wildrock (207-229-172-19.d.enteract.com [207.229.172.19]) by makeworld.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA28895 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:20:16 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from bitsurfer@enteract.com) From: "Chris Silva" To: "advocacy@FreeBSD. ORG" Subject: 3.4 Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:20:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Got mine today!!! Best regards, Chris _____________________________________________________________________ DH/DSS Fingerprint = 8265 0BB8 2C7D A376 3CCD 6858 8630 0E47 194A 0318 RSA Key Fingerprint = 4390 44E5 E316 F2AA A11E 5755 F3F9 D69B PGP Mail encouraged / preferred - keys available on common key servers _____________________________________________________________________ Proud supporter of FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 1:56:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBAE15640 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 01:56:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de) Received: from freno.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@freno.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.167]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22936 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:54:42 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by freno.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.3/8.9.0) id KAA28160 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:54:42 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:54:42 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: [warped@gci.net: Linux article mentions FreeBSD] Message-ID: <20000107105441.A28100@freno.cs.tu-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Forwarded message from "Michael A.Endsley" ----- To: wosch@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:42:23 AKST From: "Michael A.Endsley" Reply-To: "Michael A.Endsley" Subject: Linux article mentions FreeBSD This may or may not interest anybody. It is only one sentence about FreeBSD. http://www.gci.net/newsletter/200001/news.cfm?page=linux.html. Regards, Michael A. Endsley ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 5:10:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F741578F for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 05:10:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17308; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:10:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) From: Michael Lucas Message-Id: <200001071310.IAA17308@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) In-Reply-To: <38753925.C30D57B@softweyr.com> from Wes Peters at "Jan 6, 2000 5:53:57 pm" To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:10:07 -0500 (EST) Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > You know, Wes, I would have joined this group quite some time ago if > > I'd known what it was *really* about. > It's about time you showed up here. Where's your keyboard print? I tried, but the puny little full-size keyboard got caught between my testicles. Haven't seen it since. > > ObContent: The GPL has a variety of license documents, explaining why > > it's good and what it's for. Is there such an article about the BSDL > > that I can point people to? > Yeah, straight from the horse's^W^W Kirk McKusick: > http://www.sendmail.net/?CssUID=&CssServer=&SessionName=&feed=interview004 >"you had copyright, which is what the big companies use to lock everything up; >you had copyleft, which is free software's way of making sure they can't lock >it up; and then Berkeley had what we called "copycenter," which is "take it >down to the copy center and make as many copies as you want." You want to go > off and do proprietary things with it? Fine, you can do that. You want to > keep it out in the Open Source domain? You're welcome to do that as well." That's a nice statement of what it is, but not a statement of "why." Allow me to explain why I ask: I'm pretty much surrounded by Linux bigots. Their big pro-Linux argument that they have is the GPL, and how it's great for the community. So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many times, I'd like something better than "we don't care"; from an advocacy point of view, that never comes across well. I find Kirk's explanation adequate. But it doesn't stand up well against the "community spirit" of the GPL. Personally, I use BSD because the network performance and reliability blows Linux out of the water on the same hardware. But that's difficult to prove at the bar. ==ml To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 5:34:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30A015852 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 05:34:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17397; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:33:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) From: Michael Lucas Message-Id: <200001071333.IAA17397@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: Possible idea to raise funds. In-Reply-To: from Omachonu Ogali at "Jan 6, 2000 9:22:12 pm" To: oogali@intranova.net (Omachonu Ogali) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:33:56 -0500 (EST) Cc: dwilde1@thuntek.net, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, matt@BabCom.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you think you can actually sell accounts, go for it. All this requires from freebsd.org is a single host delegation. I suspect that if you (or anyone) is willing to donate servers, bandwidth, sysadmin time, and whatnot to this effort, or if you can convince someone else to donate all this for this effort, you can swing the host delegation. If the folks up at WC had the hardware and time to spare for this, FreeBSD would be in considerably better shape than it is. With the preponderance of free email services nowadays, though, this seems rather redundant. I have more shell accounts than I know what to do with; most people who want one can get one. IMHO, a volunteer sysadmin's time would be better spent doing pre-release testing. As far as donated bandwidth and whatnot goes; if you have that to spare, contact freebsd.org and ask what they need most badly. I prefer to donate my $ to FreeBSD by subscribing to -stable and -current on CD. Similarly, I hope to write enough articles to one day be offered md5@freebsd.org as a reward for my efforts. (Either that, or a video clip of Jordan falling off the chair he jumps up and down on.) ==ml > Why bother to add the clutter and load? > > Omachonu Ogali > Intranova Networking Group > > On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Donald Wilde wrote: > > > "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > > > > > I have thought of perhaps a way to raise some funds for the FreeBSD > > > > project. I was thinking, why not sell pop3, @freebsd.org e-mail > > > > accounts. I don't know about how popular it would be, but I would > > > > definately buy one, and I think it would be a good way to get the > > > > name out some more. What do you think? > > > > > > FreeBSD.org accounts are already sort of the "executive perk" of those > > > who care enough about FreeBSD to volunteer their labor, either as > > > docs, ports or src committers. Not to say that this alone has been > > > their incentive, but hey, they're volunteers and there are so few > > > tangible things one gets as a volunteer that each and every one counts > > > for something. :) > > > > > So how about so-n-so@members.freebsd.org? or something like that? > > -- > > Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" > > ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== > > PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 > > Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 6: 7:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from math.udel.edu (math.udel.edu [128.175.16.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 449FF14FBC for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 06:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schwenk@math.udel.edu) Received: from math.udel.edu (sisyphus.math.udel.edu [128.175.16.167]) by math.udel.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27495 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:06:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3875F2CC.6A771456@math.udel.edu> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:06:04 -0500 From: Peter Schwenk Organization: University of Delaware X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, de, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) References: <200001071310.IAA17308@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It appears to me, at least from a business standpoint, that the BSDL is the free-est of all in that all it requires of the licensee is recognition of the source of the work. I think that's why Apple's used it for it's upcoming Mac OS X. They can use the FreeBSD source and still not be required to ship source with their product. That way they can keep whatever fancy stuff they've done to it private and keep a competitive advantage. Not very cool from a GPL, Open Source standpoint, but I'm sure Apple likes it. I thought I heard a rumor that Apple has contributed some source back to the FreeBSD project, but that's just hearsay. Michael Lucas wrote: > So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as > nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many > times, I'd like something better than "we don't care"; from an > advocacy point of view, that never comes across well. -- PETER SCHWENK | UNIX System Administrator Department of Mathematical Sciences | University of Delaware schwenk@math.udel.edu | (302)831-0437 <-NEW!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 6:13:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C535114FBC for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 06:13:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17543; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:13:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) From: Michael Lucas Message-Id: <200001071413.JAA17543@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) In-Reply-To: <3875F2CC.6A771456@math.udel.edu> from Peter Schwenk at "Jan 7, 2000 9: 6: 4 am" To: schwenk@math.udel.edu (Peter Schwenk) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:13:00 -0500 (EST) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From a business standpoint, yes, the BSDL is delightful. "Here, have this, it's free, do whatever you want with it." What business wouldn't like that? But what do *we* get out of it? Simply the satisfaction of knowing your work is in a photocopier's brain? ==ml > It appears to me, at least from a business standpoint, that the BSDL is the > free-est of all in that all it requires of the licensee is recognition of the > source of the work. I think that's why Apple's used it for it's upcoming Mac OS > X. They can use the FreeBSD source and still not be required to ship source with > their product. That way they can keep whatever fancy stuff they've done to it > private and keep a competitive advantage. Not very cool from a GPL, Open Source > standpoint, but I'm sure Apple likes it. I thought I heard a rumor that Apple has > contributed some source back to the FreeBSD project, but that's just hearsay. > > Michael Lucas wrote: > > > So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as > > nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many > > times, I'd like something better than "we don't care"; from an > > advocacy point of view, that never comes across well. > > -- > PETER SCHWENK | UNIX System Administrator > Department of Mathematical Sciences | University of Delaware > schwenk@math.udel.edu | (302)831-0437 <-NEW!!! > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 6:23:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from math.udel.edu (math.udel.edu [128.175.16.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89FB515682 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 06:23:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schwenk@math.udel.edu) Received: from math.udel.edu (sisyphus.math.udel.edu [128.175.16.167]) by math.udel.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28249 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:23:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3875F6CA.DBCAFA8B@math.udel.edu> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:23:06 -0500 From: Peter Schwenk Organization: University of Delaware X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, de, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) References: <200001071413.JAA17543@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I guess I just don't understand why any software business would want to have anything to do with true Open Source software. Sure, you could charge for support and service, but, at least in the home/personal market, nobody likes to pay for that stuff. I can see corporate licensees buying support, however. True Open Source software seems to make it impossible to make big money, which companies like to do. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE free software. I use it all the time. I just don't see how ALL software can be free and we can still have a software industry. I'm a dope, I guess. Michael Lucas wrote: > >From a business standpoint, yes, the BSDL is delightful. "Here, have > this, it's free, do whatever you want with it." What business > wouldn't like that? > > But what do *we* get out of it? Simply the satisfaction of knowing > your work is in a photocopier's brain? > > ==ml > > > It appears to me, at least from a business standpoint, that the BSDL is the > > free-est of all in that all it requires of the licensee is recognition of the > > source of the work. I think that's why Apple's used it for it's upcoming Mac OS > > X. They can use the FreeBSD source and still not be required to ship source with > > their product. That way they can keep whatever fancy stuff they've done to it > > private and keep a competitive advantage. Not very cool from a GPL, Open Source > > standpoint, but I'm sure Apple likes it. I thought I heard a rumor that Apple has > > contributed some source back to the FreeBSD project, but that's just hearsay. > > > > Michael Lucas wrote: > > > > > So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as > > > nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many > > > times, I'd like something better than "we don't care"; from an > > > advocacy point of view, that never comes across well. -- PETER SCHWENK | UNIX System Administrator Department of Mathematical Sciences | University of Delaware schwenk@math.udel.edu | (302)831-0437 <-NEW!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 7:13: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost.cle.ameritech.net (mpdr0.cleveland.oh.ameritech.net [206.141.223.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E36E14FF1 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:13:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zidarf@zidar.com) Received: from zdidesk ([199.179.175.32]) by mailhost.cle.ameritech.net (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP id <20000107151308.ILAJ17880.mailhost.cle.ameritech.net@zdidesk>; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:13:08 -0500 From: "Frank J. Zidar" To: "Peter Schwenk" , Subject: RE: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:12:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3875F6CA.DBCAFA8B@math.udel.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have often felt the same way you do. I see companies offering their stuff as open source as a "loss-leader" in order to simply create more customers using their software. Then they not only offer support contracts, but consulting services to develop applications for the platform. But not everybody is doing this or has software that fits into this type of category. I guess I'm just old school too, and like to be rewarded financially for my efforts. I also believe that I should pay for the work of another personal as well -- especially if I benefit from it. Which is why as soon as I start generating revenue from FreeBSD server installations, I will find some way to contribute back to the FreeBSD project. I don't think I'm good enough as a coder to contribute source, but I will at least send some cash. I love open source projects not because they are "free" -- well that helps -- but because they are being managed, built, tested, etc. by the people who really know what the hell they are doing instead of being pushed and pulled apart by a marketing department and salespeople like most large corporations. I believe that creates the best software for everyone to use as most have already seen. FreeBSD is a great piece of software, keep up the good work. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Peter Schwenk Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 9:23 AM To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) I guess I just don't understand why any software business would want to have anything to do with true Open Source software. Sure, you could charge for support and service, but, at least in the home/personal market, nobody likes to pay for that stuff. I can see corporate licensees buying support, however. True Open Source software seems to make it impossible to make big money, which companies like to do. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE free software. I use it all the time. I just don't see how ALL software can be free and we can still have a software industry. I'm a dope, I guess. Michael Lucas wrote: > >From a business standpoint, yes, the BSDL is delightful. "Here, have > this, it's free, do whatever you want with it." What business > wouldn't like that? > > But what do *we* get out of it? Simply the satisfaction of knowing > your work is in a photocopier's brain? > > ==ml > > > It appears to me, at least from a business standpoint, that the BSDL is the > > free-est of all in that all it requires of the licensee is recognition of the > > source of the work. I think that's why Apple's used it for it's upcoming Mac OS > > X. They can use the FreeBSD source and still not be required to ship source with > > their product. That way they can keep whatever fancy stuff they've done to it > > private and keep a competitive advantage. Not very cool from a GPL, Open Source > > standpoint, but I'm sure Apple likes it. I thought I heard a rumor that Apple has > > contributed some source back to the FreeBSD project, but that's just hearsay. > > > > Michael Lucas wrote: > > > > > So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as > > > nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many > > > times, I'd like something better than "we don't care"; from an > > > advocacy point of view, that never comes across well. -- PETER SCHWENK | UNIX System Administrator Department of Mathematical Sciences | University of Delaware schwenk@math.udel.edu | (302)831-0437 <-NEW!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 7:14:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54B015766 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:14:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17803 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:14:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) From: Michael Lucas Message-Id: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: article on 4.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:14:31 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, with the feature freeze, this seems to be a good time to try to push an article on the new features in 4.0. Print articles take about 4 months to appear, so I need to get moving on this. This seems to be the best place to ask: Does anyone have a complete list of the major improvements/enhancements in -current? Unfortunately, the mailing list search engine doesn't work well for this sort of thing, so I'm stuck with stored messages from -current and hazy information from my sporadically-firing gray matter. The ones that stuck in my brain are: *VM enhancements *NTFS reading *NFS enhancements *Novell connectivity *Massive flame wars with dillon, pkh, and karl -- ahem, I'll skip this one *Linux emulation improvement & signals changes -- does this actually improve any other system functions, or does it just improve our Linux compatability? *scads of device drivers (yes, scads *is* a technical term) *Netgraph (merged into -stable recently, I know, but unfamiliar enough to most people that it's worth a mention) *partial IPv6 support Does this cover it? Is there an official document? Thanks, Michael PS: For anyone who cares, the proofs arrived for my next Sys Admin article yesterday. Thanks again to all who reviewed them, I owe each of you a drink or two. PPS: Does anyone know if Sunworld.com is a paying market? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 7:23:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from merlin.onsea.com (pD0s02a01.client.global.net.uk [195.147.130.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0538615529 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:23:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dozprompt@onsea.com) Received: from localhost (dozprompt@localhost) by merlin.onsea.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA35910 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:24:53 GMT (envelope-from dozprompt@onsea.com) X-Authentication-Warning: merlin.onsea.com: dozprompt owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:24:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Cliff Rowley To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Possible idea to raise funds. In-Reply-To: <200001071333.IAA17397@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there a list or article somewhere outlining what the FreeBSD team would like in the way of help? I really would like to donate either time or (somewhat small) amounts of money to the project, but I guess I dont know enough about it to get involve in testing or developing (yet). Cliff - while (!asleep) { code(); } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 7:25:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (sol.cc.u-szeged.hu [160.114.8.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA5E15707 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:25:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu) Received: from petra.hos.u-szeged.hu by sol.cc.u-szeged.hu (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id QAA20335; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:25:30 +0100 (MET) Received: by petra.hos.u-szeged.hu (Linux Smail3.2.0.92 #1) id m126bIa-000on0C; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:27:32 +0000 () Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:27:32 +0100 From: Szilveszter Adam To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license Message-ID: <20000107162731.A12006@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu> Mail-Followup-To: advocacy@freebsd.org References: <38753925.C30D57B@softweyr.com> <200001071310.IAA17308@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200001071310.IAA17308@blackhelicopters.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! On Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 08:10:07AM -0500, Michael Lucas wrote: > That's a nice statement of what it is, but not a statement of "why." > Allow me to explain why I ask: > > I'm pretty much surrounded by Linux bigots. Their big pro-Linux > argument that they have is the GPL, and how it's great for the > community. > > So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as > nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many > times, I'd like something better than "we don't care"; from an > advocacy point of view, that never comes across well. > > I find Kirk's explanation adequate. But it doesn't stand up well > against the "community spirit" of the GPL. Although I am certainly none of the BSD veterans, but being a interested in these issues I decided to throw in my $0.02 just in case someone might decide to read it. (it's a bit long, sorry for that!) I think that the BSDL's strength is that it comes from a time, when software (and especially, the OS) was a part of the computer it ran on and therefore there was no need to place restricitve license condotions on it. Also, to make it work the way you wanted often required tweaking which would have been impossible with a restrictive license. Those days are gone, but misteriously some of these veterans survived, including BSD and Sendmail. They accomodated many development efforts over the years and became substantially better by it. In theory the BSDL is the "better" license because it comes with almost no strings attached and thus allows you freedom in what you do with the software. This license would serve everybody well if we lived in a world which would be based on fair competition and fair use of other peoples' work. The majority of BSD users follow these principles that is why it has remained free during all those years although legally speaking there are no 'bars' in the license which would have prevented a different outcome, save for the fact, perhaps, that you can always go back and grab an earlier version which was still free and work from there (as was the case with ssh, for example). The GPL (along with Linux) surfaced in a different environment. There was dominance by commercial, closed-source vendors all over the place and everyone perceived this to be normal. They occasionally complained about poor quality but they expected the friendly monopoly to fix it again. The monopolies, on their part were more interested in improving the UI of their products and neglected fixing of errors for long periods of time. Also, there was (and is) a trend of them simply buying smaller firms which offer competitive products they need and simply repackage those as their own. This has led to even more reduced competition. Richard Stallman and others were alarmed by this situation and wanted to construct a system which would not only produce good-quality non-proprietary software but also would bar anybody from taking it and thus maybe killing the free character of it. The interesting part is that IMHO everybody is right and yet nobody gets it in those endless flame-wars that accompany this issue. In fact, the GNU advocates are right when pointing out the community-building character of the GNU/Linux movement and also when they warn about the nature of big-business corporate capitalism killing off competition slowly but surely. But BSDL advocates (whom, despite all 'copycenter' attitude we might have, I would classify as liberals and thus more to the right of the spectrum, in contrast with the socialist attitude of many GPLers...) were also right in pointing out that this has not happened anywhere yet and also that the logic behind it is not fail-proof: even in the PC market where there was a de-facto 90+% dominance of one company, it only took a couple of years and things have changed. Thus, people are actually moving and not just in the direction the mass is heading: they are thinking. That is what we have always suggested by saying: it is up to YOU to decide what to do with this, we will not restrict you but the responsibility lies with you. This is why for some this issue is more than just software: it is the ever-present liberals vs. socialists debate in Europe or if you live in the U.S., the debate Republicans vs. Democrats. The debate of 'letting things go as they develop' vs. 'we must care for them because they cannot take care for themselves'. It has not to do with politics directly but since your political beliefs are shaped by some fundamental attitudes, it was easy for the GPL activists to explore and expand on this one. They did it consicously and on purpose: if you are attached to something with more than rational ties, you will defend it really hard. It was a good intention, given that around them there were not many promising signs. Also, one must admit that before Linux came around, open software offerings were isolated, rather arbitrarily maintained and had no interest for interoperability thus making them no alternatives to somebody who was not running some UNIX system already and had a lot of experience with it. This has changed with GNU and Linux, admit it. It not only meant more media hype (sure) more money and investment (sure) but also a more/less coherent set of alternative software that could be used by home users with x86 based PCs instead of products on the Windows platform. This was at once due to the programming they did and also the cult they created. At first no one could say for sure if this movement would last but now we can say that even if it finished now, it has left its mark in the history of computing. It was not just them, all competitors (including the huge monopolies) were forced to get their act together and we got all better by this competition which for some reason did exist on a much smaller scale before. Perhaps it was that most admins/programmers were already experienced and had their unshakeable preferences and thus were no longer discussing these issues seriously. Sometimes it takes a freaky young guy who comes around breaking taboos and throwing stuff into your face to shake you up. And this competition was very much favored by the GPL with unlimited modifications and ego-boosting allowed for as long as you also leave room for others on the top. But there is a decisive factor that sometimes is taken for granted and thus forgotten: none of this would have been possible without the Internet and not one license model, except for the 'proprietary' and the 'public domain' would be able to survive without it. Without the Net, there would be no opportunity for the many develpers to work together and to share their products without high costs. But it is also essential for such seemingly neutral models as ours. Were it not for huge software archives, the danger of somebody monopolizing BSDLed software were much more real. Just think of it: were it not for the archives, we would not have been able to find a free version of ssh this time, only maybe docs saying that it once existed because it was long time ago and by now almost everybody was using restricted versions and were even content doing so. The GPL guys were almost right, were it not for the Net. So I think there is no decisive "yes" or "no" valid for all time for the GPL vs BSDL question. One can be more appropriate for certain things and the other for other things. It is up to you to decide, one-by-one. The good thing is that the choice exists. And if they ask you, what is BSDL's definitive advantage, you can say that it is the fact that it exists and thus is a choice and that's it. BTW I use FreeBSD because it really kicks ass on this machine, not because of license considerations. Also, when Linuxers ask me about it, I always tell them a couple of things but never mention the license. It is impressive enough without it already. Especially if I tell them that our advocacy team really makes hard collective efforts, even in very special fields like keyboards and uhm...:-) (Sometimes they say, that the big difference between the Linux and the BSD crowd is that while Linuxers tend to be very young with an excess of time on their hands, BSDers are a more mature mix. In light of recent events on -advocacy I will suggest revising that often-heard statement...:) That was it, guys. Thanks for your patience! Digitally yours: Sz. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Szilveszter ADAM * JATE Szeged * email: sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu * * Homepage : none * alternate email: cc@flanker.itl.net.ua * * Finger sziszi@petra.hos.u-szeged.hu for PGP key. * * I prefer using the door instead of Windows(tm)... * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 7:27: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DC714DA6 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:27:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17893; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:26:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) From: Michael Lucas Message-Id: <200001071526.KAA17893@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: Possible idea to raise funds. In-Reply-To: from Cliff Rowley at "Jan 7, 2000 3:24:53 pm" To: dozprompt@onsea.com (Cliff Rowley) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:26:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Look at http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/contrib.html If your .sig is accurate, you could start going through the PR database and see what you could tackle. ==ml > Is there a list or article somewhere outlining what the FreeBSD team would > like in the way of help? I really would like to donate either time or > (somewhat small) amounts of money to the project, but I guess I dont know > enough about it to get involve in testing or developing (yet). > > Cliff > > - while (!asleep) { code(); } > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 8:19: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from math.udel.edu (math.udel.edu [128.175.16.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F27E15057 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:18:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from schwenk@math.udel.edu) Received: from math.udel.edu (sisyphus.math.udel.edu [128.175.16.167]) by math.udel.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02420 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:18:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <387611E6.90BC7EC@math.udel.edu> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:18:46 -0500 From: Peter Schwenk Organization: University of Delaware X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, de, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I feel like that also. I'm a crappy coder, but I have subscriptions to both FreeBSD and FreeBSD Toolkit from Walnut Creek, so I'm supporting it the best as I can. I also try to be a booster whenever I can. My office door has a lot of FreeBSD propaganda on it, and I try to answer questions on the mailing lists whenever I'm pretty sure I know the answer. "Frank J. Zidar" wrote: > Which is why as soon as I start > generating revenue from FreeBSD server installations, I will find some way > to contribute back to the FreeBSD project. I don't think I'm good enough as > a coder to contribute source, but I will at least send some cash. -- PETER SCHWENK | UNIX System Administrator Department of Mathematical Sciences | University of Delaware schwenk@math.udel.edu | (302)831-0437 <-NEW!!! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 10:59:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A5F915829 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:59:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12896; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:59:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Michael Lucas Cc: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:10:07 EST." <200001071310.IAA17308@blackhelicopters.org> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 10:59:15 -0800 Message-ID: <12894.947271555@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm pretty much surrounded by Linux bigots. Their big pro-Linux > argument that they have is the GPL, and how it's great for the > community. > > So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as > nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many > times, I'd like something better than "we don't care"; from an > advocacy point of view, that never comes across well. The "highfalutin'" purpose behind the BSDL, if it can even lay claim to such a thing, is that We Have No Frickin' Idea where this industry or its programmers are all going and the only constant in all of this is the code we manage to leave behind in the course of our evolution as an industry. Now, if you want to be able to leverage all that code in an evolving industry, you need maximum flexibility on its license so that taking the code from place A to place B doesn't result in place B's legal team going "aieeeee!" and holding up your progress. If I could write my own licenses as "I wrote this. Don't sue me. Thank you" then that's probably as long as they'd be for that very reason. The longer and more convoluted a legal license is, the more it narrows your options to only that set of people who are receptive to those particular convolutions. Eventually, I'm sure, it would be possible to arrive at a 50 page license which only one person in the entire world was happy with if you pursued that to its logical extreme in the other direction. :-) This is not to say that nobody is happy with the GPL, I know many people are, but I've never seen anyone *unhappy* with the BSD license whereas I cannot say the same for the GPL, so I'd be secure in saying that it's the wider of two "fan outs" as far as public opinion is concerned. The BSD license's greatest "problems", in fact, seem to be a lack of awareness about it in the general public and a lot of FUD-spreading from folks who predict doom and exploitation if you leave your license that open. The fact that the emergence of SunOS and BSD/OS from BSD *long ago* did nothing to harm the parallel efforts of BSD at UCB (and other places) seems to be wasted on these folks. Their arguments that BSD/OS and SunOS (and Ultrix and ...) would all be free right now if only the BSD kernel had been GPL'd are similarly hallucinogenic since they completely ignore the corporate culture of the early 80's and the fact that if the BSD code base HAD been GPL'd, you'd have never seen it in SunOS or Ultrix at all. Instead, those companies would have gone off and rolled their own operating systems from scratch or licensed System III from Bell Labs and pursued (a far weaker) SVR4 line from the same group. I say SVR4 would have been a weaker line since it also wouldn't have taken in all that BSD code if the aformentioned code had been poison-pilled by the GPL, leaving us all with far less palatable solutions to work with. We may consider Sun or Digital to be "the commercial competition", but we also often have to use their products and I, for one, would have been a much sadder man if my Sun days had been spent on a SYSV-derived box with no job control, long filenames or vi and a VM system which performed poorly at best. The fact that I was able to spend those years using SunOS and Ultrix makes me very very glad that the U.C. Regents chose the license that they did. Now if we could only get microsoft to "steal" the BSD TCP/IP stack for Windows 2000 more throughly than they have to date (just run 'strings' on windows telnet someday, for example :), maybe we wouldn't all be cursing our connections dropping on transient network misbehavior every time we got stuck using a Win2K box. But I digress. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 11: 5: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A09155BB for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:05:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12923; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:04:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Michael Lucas Cc: schwenk@math.udel.edu (Peter Schwenk), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Jan 2000 09:13:00 EST." <200001071413.JAA17543@blackhelicopters.org> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:04:52 -0800 Message-ID: <12921.947271892@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But what do *we* get out of it? Simply the satisfaction of knowing > your work is in a photocopier's brain? See my previous posting. What "we" get out of it is a better world to live in, more or less, because good code is not prevented from making it into the mainstream products which affect all of us. It also gives us a better evolutionary pace for the software industry as a whole. What would you prefer to see, 50 programmers at Apple all beavering away on reinventing the underlying operating system or simply using our stuff and putting their time into extending the boundries of user interface design instead? Even if you never happen to use an Apple yourself, you can bet that things like "Aqua" are going to motivate a lot of the rest of the industry to improve their own interfaces, and eventually that evolution will indeed affect you (hopefully for the better). That's what it's all about, right? Evolution. Which we haven't had nearly enough of in the software industry. The HAL 9000 project has slipped all of its ship dates and I still have no idea when we're going to meet him, which sucks. I'm getting really sick of this keyboard. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 13:10:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from server.bitmcnit.bryansk.su (bitmcnit.bryansk.ru [195.239.213.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D72157C4 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:08:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@kapran.bitmcnit.bryansk.su) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by server.bitmcnit.bryansk.su (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id XAA08293; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 23:52:57 +0300 Received: (from alex@localhost) by kapran.bitmcnit.bryansk.su (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA01018; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 21:00:43 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from alex) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 21:00:43 +0300 From: Alex Kapranoff To: Michael Lucas Cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) Message-ID: <20000107210043.A656@kapran.bitmcnit.bryansk.su> References: <38753925.C30D57B@softweyr.com> <200001071310.IAA17308@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001071310.IAA17308@blackhelicopters.org>; from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org on Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 08:10:07AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 08:10:07AM -0500, Michael Lucas wrote: > > off and do proprietary things with it? Fine, you can do that. You want to > > keep it out in the Open Source domain? You're welcome to do that as well." > > That's a nice statement of what it is, but not a statement of "why." > Allow me to explain why I ask: > > I'm pretty much surrounded by Linux bigots. Their big pro-Linux > argument that they have is the GPL, and how it's great for the > community. > > So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as > nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many How would you like this: GPL fights for the software to be free. Kinda 'Freedom for Software'. BSD license fights (or just ensures) freedom for people using software. Not the Best Text Editor should be free but you - its user (just for e.g.) That's from someone's article on /. about a month ago. -- Alex Kapranoff, 2:50/383.20@fidonet, Voice: +7(0832)791845. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 14: 3:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F5EC158F5 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:02:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11676; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:02:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:02:09 -0800 From: Brooks Davis To: Michael Lucas Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: article on 4.0 Message-ID: <20000107140209.A9862@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org>; from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org on Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 10:14:31AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 10:14:31AM -0500, Michael Lucas wrote: > Well, with the feature freeze, this seems to be a good time to try to > push an article on the new features in 4.0. Print articles take about > 4 months to appear, so I need to get moving on this. This seems to be > the best place to ask: > > Does anyone have a complete list of the major > improvements/enhancements in -current? Unfortunately, the mailing > list search engine doesn't work well for this sort of thing, so I'm > stuck with stored messages from -current and hazy information from my > sporadically-firing gray matter. Here are two that don't effect me, but since they have long been explicitly listed as not support in the release notes I figure they should be highlighted: - Matthew Dodd's preliminary support for MicroChannel (MCA). - The Olicom token ring driver by Larry Lile. -- Brooks -- "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one" --Thomas Jefferson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 14: 9:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A149814C22 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:09:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: from localhost (chrisc@localhost) by vnode.vmunix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23026; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:09:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:09:35 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Coleman To: Michael Lucas Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: article on 4.0 In-Reply-To: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daemon News needs an article on this also. Our publish times are much quicker. We need about 2 weeks lead time and we publish on the 1st of every month. Chris Coleman Daemon News Editor in Chief http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Michael Lucas wrote: > Well, with the feature freeze, this seems to be a good time to try to > push an article on the new features in 4.0. Print articles take about > 4 months to appear, so I need to get moving on this. This seems to be > the best place to ask: > > Does anyone have a complete list of the major > improvements/enhancements in -current? Unfortunately, the mailing > list search engine doesn't work well for this sort of thing, so I'm > stuck with stored messages from -current and hazy information from my > sporadically-firing gray matter. > > The ones that stuck in my brain are: > > *VM enhancements > > *NTFS reading > > *NFS enhancements > > *Novell connectivity > > *Massive flame wars with dillon, pkh, and karl -- ahem, I'll skip this one > > *Linux emulation improvement & signals changes -- does this actually > improve any other system functions, or does it just improve our Linux > compatability? > > *scads of device drivers (yes, scads *is* a technical term) > > *Netgraph (merged into -stable recently, I know, but unfamiliar enough > to most people that it's worth a mention) > > *partial IPv6 support > > Does this cover it? Is there an official document? > > Thanks, > Michael > > PS: For anyone who cares, the proofs arrived for my next Sys Admin > article yesterday. Thanks again to all who reviewed them, I owe each > of you a drink or two. > > PPS: Does anyone know if Sunworld.com is a paying market? > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 17:24:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16B014EBE for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:24:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05776 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAFFaGql; Fri Jan 7 18:24:04 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA21873 for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:24:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200001080124.SAA21873@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: FreeBSD mention on Charlie Rose program To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 01:24:06 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I'm back from vacation. Did anyone catch the "Charlie Rose" program last night? It had the CEO of VA Linux on it. Charlie Rose asked him a leading question about "Linux Torvalds has stated that if he'd known about FreeBSD, he'd never have created Linux; what's your reaction to that?". The reaction was pretty much to downplay the question. Not much of a mention, but still, pretty cool. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 18: 2:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9983014FBD for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:02:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id SAA29782; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:00:29 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA04632; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:00:28 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com [198.206.184.237]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id RAA26912; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:59:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38769B00.7A6DE354@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:03:44 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: article on 4.0 References: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas wrote: > > Well, with the feature freeze, this seems to be a good time to try to > push an article on the new features in 4.0. Print articles take about > 4 months to appear, so I need to get moving on this. This seems to be > the best place to ask: > > Does anyone have a complete list of the major > improvements/enhancements in -current? Unfortunately, the mailing > list search engine doesn't work well for this sort of thing, so I'm > stuck with stored messages from -current and hazy information from my > sporadically-firing gray matter. Are the committers and/or cvs-all mailing lists archived? > *Massive flame wars with dillon, pkh, and karl -- ahem, I'll skip this one Good. > *Linux emulation improvement & signals changes -- does this actually > improve any other system functions, or does it just improve our Linux > compatability? Linuxthreads? > *scads of device drivers (yes, scads *is* a technical term) I believe the correct technical term here would be a "buttload." There have also been a buttload of new and updated ports. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 18: 2:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC3C15850 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:02:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id SAA29796; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:02:12 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA04674; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:02:11 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com [198.206.184.237]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id SAA26972; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:01:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38769B67.45361897@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:05:27 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Schwenk Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) References: <200001071413.JAA17543@blackhelicopters.org> <3875F6CA.DBCAFA8B@math.udel.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Schwenk wrote: > > I guess I just don't understand why any software business would want to have anything > to do with true Open Source software. Sure, you could charge for support and service, > but, at least in the home/personal market, nobody likes to pay for that stuff. I can > see corporate licensees buying support, however. True Open Source software seems to > make it impossible to make big money, which companies like to do. > > Don't get me wrong. I LOVE free software. I use it all the time. I just don't see > how ALL software can be free and we can still have a software industry. I'm a dope, > I guess. For many companies, the software is simply an enabler, not the product. The product may be the hardware the software runs on, a service the software enables you to use, or something else. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 18:11: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A57014FA0 for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:10:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id SAA29841; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:10:23 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA04871; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:10:22 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com [198.206.184.237]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id SAA27249; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:09:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38769D52.B7FD5AD9@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:13:38 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) References: <200001071310.IAA17308@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas wrote: > > > > You know, Wes, I would have joined this group quite some time ago if > > > I'd known what it was *really* about. > > It's about time you showed up here. Where's your keyboard print? > > I tried, but the puny little full-size keyboard got caught between my > testicles. Haven't seen it since. Doesn't it hurt when you walk? (Yeah, right). > I'm pretty much surrounded by Linux bigots. Their big pro-Linux > argument that they have is the GPL, and how it's great for the > community. > > So, is there any highfalutin' purpose behind the BSDL? Or is it as > nonpolitical as it appears to be? Having had this argument many > times, I'd like something better than "we don't care"; from an > advocacy point of view, that never comes across well. > > I find Kirk's explanation adequate. But it doesn't stand up well > against the "community spirit" of the GPL. The explanation is much deeper than a single reading reveals. The purpose behind the Berkeley license is to get Berkeley code into EVERYTHING, and they've achieved that quite effectively. The Berkeley TCP/IP code is much more pervasive that you probably realize, just about every TCP/IP object on the planet except Linux and SVR4 use Berkeley code. Think also about the ubiquity of other chunks of Berkeley code: Sendmail and BIND leap immediately to mind. Even Linux and Solaris use those. ;^) The only way to make your software ubiquitous is to allow those who use it to give it away or charge for it, distribute it in source or in binary, in short to give them total freedom to do what they want or need, according to their agenda and not yours. The GPL fails to meet this basic need, and therefore fails to allow the widest possible distribution. > Personally, I use BSD because the network performance and reliability > blows Linux out of the water on the same hardware. But that's > difficult to prove at the bar. And may be a moot point, depending on the discussion. In may ways, Linux and FreeBSD are technically equivalent, but one is certainly a lot more friendly to commercial distribution. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 18:13:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailgw1.netvision.net.il (mailgw1.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986E81586B for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:12:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ak@freenet.co.uk) Received: from freenet.co.uk (RAS1-p114.rlz.netvision.net.il [62.0.168.116]) by mailgw1.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25003; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 04:12:44 +0200 (IST) Message-ID: <38769DC7.7AD014D2@freenet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 02:15:35 +0000 From: Alex X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: article on 4.0 References: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas wrote: > > Does anyone have a complete list of the major > improvements/enhancements in -current? Unfortunately, the mailing > list search engine doesn't work well for this sort of thing, so I'm > stuck with stored messages from -current and hazy information from my > sporadically-firing gray matter. > > The ones that stuck in my brain are: > > *VM enhancements > > *NTFS reading Well, NTFS is not exactly a new feature since it was MFC'd ages ago, although you could probably say "improved NTFS support". > *NFS enhancements > > *Novell connectivity > > *Massive flame wars with dillon, pkh, and karl -- ahem, I'll skip this one > > *Linux emulation improvement & signals changes -- does this actually > improve any other system functions, or does it just improve our Linux > compatability? It's a global improvement: previously the number of signals was limited to 32, now we can have up to 128. Linux had more than 32 signals and the change was needed to improve compatibility (which was probably the main reason it was brought in in the first place). > *scads of device drivers (yes, scads *is* a technical term) You should probably name a few, rather than just say "scads" > *Netgraph (merged into -stable recently, I know, but unfamiliar enough > to most people that it's worth a mention) > > *partial IPv6 support > > Does this cover it? Is there an official document? Off the top of my head, here's some more: - Completely redesigned new bus API which provides the framework for dynamic device allocation/deallocation (and hence potentially for things like device hotplugging/removal) - A brand new PnP system, which automatically detects and configures all ISA PnP devices - The jail feature; see jail(2), jail(8) - Various SMP improvements (in particular, people can now run StarOffice/Linux on SMP boxes) - The great new ATA driver replaced the good old wdc. The new features include support for more chipsets (such as Promise, HPTsomething), DMA-66, DMA support for ATAPI devices, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD support, etc. Also the new utility, burncd. - New pcm driver replaced Luigi's sound driver. It's still under active development, but there's already support for newer PCI sound cards, such as Trident 4DWave. MIDI support not yet integrated but coming soon. - HPFS (/sys/fs/hpfs) - SVR4 emulation (or "compatibility") - Solaris 2.6/7, SCO, etc - Linux compatibility is now truly amazing (VMware is worth a mention) - System compiler updated to GCC 2.95.2, also things like binutils, grep, ntpd, readline, etc etc - EXT2FS brought up to date with the latest version of Linux - Improved USB stack (USB in -stable is unusable) - Improved PPBUS system - Kernel is much more modularised - Laptop support is still the same as in 3.X, but will be greatly improved in the next release, including forthcoming Cardbus support - Last, but not least, support for the Alpha platform! Maybe more? Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 18:44:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2536E14DCA for ; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:44:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13022; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAo0aaAz; Fri Jan 7 19:44:14 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA24742; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:44:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200001080244.TAA24742@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD mention on Charlie Rose program To: billf@chc-chimes.com (Bill Fumerola) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 02:44:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Bill Fumerola" at Jan 07, 2000 08:35:27 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Charlie Rose asked him a leading question about "Linux Torvalds > > has stated that if he'd known about FreeBSD, he'd never have > > created Linux; what's your reaction to that?". > > When did Linus state that? Presumably, before Charlie Rose quoted him. ar ar ar. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 7 23: 1:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 0A60914BDA; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 23:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78FC1CD825; Fri, 7 Jan 2000 23:01:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 23:01:42 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Wes Peters Cc: Michael Lucas , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: article on 4.0 In-Reply-To: <38769B00.7A6DE354@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > Are the committers and/or cvs-all mailing lists archived? Yep - see /home/ncvs/CVSROOT/commitlogs They're also archived on the www.freebsd.org site. Going through these (though it's a big task!) would definitely be worthwhile - we want to make 4.0 look as impressive as possible. Some more changes: jail(8) gcc 2.95.2 newbus alpha OSF/1ulator SVR4ulator improvements vmware support (not part of the base system, but a notable feature nonetheless) openssl improvements :-) Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 1:50: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 758) id 856A115870; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 01:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729E61CD82A; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 01:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hub.freebsd.org) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 01:50:02 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Michael Lucas Cc: Peter Schwenk , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) In-Reply-To: <200001071413.JAA17543@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Michael Lucas wrote: > But what do *we* get out of it? Simply the satisfaction of knowing > your work is in a photocopier's brain? Why do I prefer the BSD license? Because it helps to raise the bar of software quality for everyone, everywhere. BSD code can be used anywhere with no real strings attached, so it makes a logical foundation from which to build yet higher. BSD software makes the world a better place because people don't have to worry about reimplementing the exact same damn piece of code from scratch, simply because the license terms are unacceptable for their project. How much time has been wasted by the GNU folks alone recoding "free" versions of programs for which BSD versions have existed for decades? Kris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 5:20:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net (typhoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B8DC14A12 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 05:20:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (qmail 7728 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2000 13:20:22 -0000 Received: from userbg92.uk.uudial.com (HELO marder-1.) (62.188.142.212) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2000 13:20:22 -0000 Received: (from mark@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03452; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:20:15 GMT (envelope-from mark) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:20:12 +0000 From: Mark Ovens To: Terry Lambert Cc: Bill Fumerola , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD mention on Charlie Rose program Message-ID: <20000108132012.A2853@marder-1> References: <200001080244.TAA24742@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200001080244.TAA24742@usr09.primenet.com> Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jan 08, 2000 at 02:44:16AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Charlie Rose asked him a leading question about "Linux Torvalds > > > has stated that if he'd known about FreeBSD, he'd never have > > > created Linux; what's your reaction to that?". > > > > When did Linus state that? > > Presumably, before Charlie Rose quoted him. > IIRC, what Linus actually said was, "If FreeBSD had appeared 2 years earlier, then Linux would never have happened". Doesn't Linux pre-date FreeBSD? > ar ar ar. Isn't this the sound a penguin makes? :) > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- "there's a long-standing bug relating to the x86 architecture that allows you to install Windows too" -Matthew D. Fuller ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 5:54:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAC715902 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 05:54:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (dcs@p14-dn02kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.163.200.111]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) with ESMTP id WAA03418; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 22:54:11 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <38774177.E11FC141@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 22:53:59 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Cc: Michael Lucas , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: article on 4.0 References: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> <38769DC7.7AD014D2@freenet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alex wrote: > > - Improved USB stack (USB in -stable is unusable) In fact, we support USB ethernet, thanks to anti-Bill. :-) Including attaching/detaching, if I'm not mistaken. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Water! Water! Water! Huh? Huh! Water! Water!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 6:10:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C4915951 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 06:10:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (dcs@p14-dn02kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.163.200.111]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) with ESMTP id XAA06882; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 23:09:58 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <38774525.B21CE8FD@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:09:41 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: Peter Schwenk , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: license (no longer Re: uptimes, Woo Hoo) References: <200001071413.JAA17543@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas wrote: > > But what do *we* get out of it? Simply the satisfaction of knowing > your work is in a photocopier's brain? Well, y'see, if vendor A grabs some of our code to improve his software, vendor A's competitors, B and C, will also feel compelled to improve their own software, either by grabbing our code or by developing better code themselves. The end result is that the software from vendors A, B and C has been improved. GPL advocates wants open software. We want better software. For example, if the TCP/IP stack had been GPLed, we would be using OSI. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "Water! Water! Water! Huh? Huh! Water! Water!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 6:41:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.thuntek.net (mail2.thuntek.net [206.206.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7009514EDA for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 06:41:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-014.thuntek.net [207.66.52.14]) by mail2.thuntek.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21047; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 07:39:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Message-ID: <38774E6C.99AD1AD9@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:49:16 -0700 From: Donald Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@thuntek.net Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens Cc: Terry Lambert , Bill Fumerola , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD mention on Charlie Rose program References: <200001080244.TAA24742@usr09.primenet.com> <20000108132012.A2853@marder-1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If I remember right, the original Linus quote was more in reference to BSD proper being legally unencumbered during the AT&T fight, not FreeBSD per se. -- Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 6:50:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F5B4150E2 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 06:50:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA49587; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 11:57:49 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 11:57:49 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Wes Peters Cc: Michael Lucas , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: article on 4.0 Message-ID: <20000108115749.B47712@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> <38769B00.7A6DE354@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <38769B00.7A6DE354@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 07:03:44PM -0700 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ FU -chat ] On Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 07:03:44PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > *scads of device drivers (yes, scads *is* a technical term) > > I believe the correct technical term here would be a "buttload." Metric buttload or Imperial buttload? N -- If you want to imagine the future, imagine a tennis shoe stamping on a penguin's face forever. --- with apologies to George Orwell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 6:51: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66712158FC for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 06:50:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA49275; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 11:56:41 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 11:56:40 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Chris Coleman Cc: Michael Lucas , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: article on 4.0 Message-ID: <20000108115639.A47712@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Chris Coleman on Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 05:09:35PM -0500 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 05:09:35PM -0500, Chris Coleman wrote: > Daemon News needs an article on this also. Our publish times are much > quicker. We need about 2 weeks lead time and we publish on the 1st of > every month. Ditto Slashdot. I'm happy to either take a long article (as DN would be) or take a general list of enhancements, and link to a longer article elsewhere (see, for example, the OpenBSD 2.6 announcement that was on there a few weeks ago) at somewhere like DaemonNews. N -- If you want to imagine the future, imagine a tennis shoe stamping on a penguin's face forever. --- with apologies to George Orwell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 6:51:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.thuntek.net (mail2.thuntek.net [206.206.98.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9206E1516D for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 06:51:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-014.thuntek.net [207.66.52.14]) by mail2.thuntek.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21861; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 07:50:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Message-ID: <387750E4.3B08CD87@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:59:48 -0700 From: Donald Wilde Reply-To: dwilde1@thuntek.net Organization: Silver Lynx X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ovens , Terry Lambert , Bill Fumerola , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD mention on Charlie Rose program References: <200001080244.TAA24742@usr09.primenet.com> <20000108132012.A2853@marder-1> <38774E6C.99AD1AD9@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donald Wilde wrote: > > If I remember right, the original Linus quote was more in reference to > BSD proper being legally unencumbered during the AT&T fight, not FreeBSD damn, make that "encumbered" > per se. -- Donald Wilde "Linking Minds and Micros" ================= S i l v e r L y n x =================== PMB 117, 1380 Rio Rancho Blvd SE v: 505-771-0709 f: 771-1356 Rio Rancho, New Mexico 87124 web: http://www.Silver-Lynx.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 13:28: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC8414EDC; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:28:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id NAA02752; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:28:01 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id NAA06810; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:28:01 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id NAA28716; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 13:26:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3877ACA9.9719C8EA@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 14:31:21 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Cc: Michael Lucas , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: article on 4.0 References: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> <38769B00.7A6DE354@softweyr.com> <20000108115749.B47712@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > > [ FU -chat ] > > On Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 07:03:44PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > > *scads of device drivers (yes, scads *is* a technical term) > > > > I believe the correct technical term here would be a "buttload." > > Metric buttload or Imperial buttload? We've standardized on the ANSI/ISO buttload to avoid confusion, and conversion errors. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 14:57:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.141.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75ADE14A25; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 14:57:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from howardjp@wam.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23962; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 18:03:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: dragon.ham.muohio.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 18:03:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Howard X-Sender: howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu To: Wes Peters Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Michael Lucas , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: article on 4.0 In-Reply-To: <3877ACA9.9719C8EA@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 8 Jan 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > We've standardized on the ANSI/ISO buttload to avoid confusion, and > conversion errors. Did you remember to tell the engineers at NASA and Lockheed-Martin? Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 19:51:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.25.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C555514F94; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:51:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de) Received: from fettesau.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (stuwopc5.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.209.5]) by mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA07841; Sun, 9 Jan 2000 04:51:32 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.1.20000109040233.00c481a0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> Message-Id: <4.1.20000109040233.00c481a0@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> X-Sender: ohoyer@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 04:31:18 +0100 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: German FreeBSD and advocacy Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG cc: to -chat and -advocacy, please trim adresses when responding Hi! Well, I am a kinda "newbie" to FreeBSD, although I have several experience with other OS and the fuss around that. And as a student (engineer with telecommunication/network stuff) I also will have to deal with serious OS in the future. OK: I want to do two things: Contribute something to a project that is in my eyes worth being pushed, and as a student, to earn some money and experience/knowledge/reputation for my studies and later job. (Please forgive me for using Microshit products, but my whole emailing resides also for some compatibility/archiving (about 8000 mails) reasons for years on it. If someone could recommend a product like Eudora Pro for FreeBSD, I'd be happy ;-) ) Ok: My idea was to do some work in the advocacy field regarding germany, and contributing to the documentation (translating/working on handbook and howtos, perhaps a pile/booklet of manpages came to my mind), as my spare time will allow. In addition, to pick up the thread where the worthiness of a product was discussed, there was made the remark, that dealer became interested in selling Linux, because it moved from hacker status/experimental to an accepted, documented, and, most important: Pre-packaged bundle with an actually existing support from the distributors like Suse or RedHat. So they had only to order a package, put it on the shelf and sell it- no questions asked... And the customer (especially in germany) believes, that things, that go for free or almost nothing, are not that valuable. Also, the availability of FreeBSd in the stores here is quite bad, and when they finally order it (from Walnut creek), it is quite expensive. Example: I bought my 3.2 R CD set in Kiel, a city of 300.000, capital of the state. the book store, which also specialized on lots of Unix/Linux titles told me, yes they can supply me with that, but it would last 10 days, they have to order. Ok, the 4 CD set without handbook was 69 DM, with handbook it was 129 DM. (2 DM~1 U$) The same store sold actual Suse Linux for 69 DM (recommended price is 99= DM). Suse sells to retail people for about 40/50 DM, so there is much money in= it. Thought was to do something with a german booklet, a nice and snappy packaging, so that it can compete against a big Linux package sitting next to it on the shelf. Of course, here has to be done some work/research with walnut creek, as they are doing some business also with that, inhowfar one could come together on that issue. I'll be happy about any thoughts and input, especially regarding licensing/legal issues, esp. regarding copying/distribution of CD sets. Regards Olaf Hoyer - - - - - - - -=20 Olaf Hoyer ICQ: 22838075 mailto: Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de home: www.nightfire.de (The home of the burning CPU) Wer mit Ungeheuern k=E4mpft, mag zusehn,=20 da=DF er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund=20 auch in dich hinein. (Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und B=F6se) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 8 19:54: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9976A1527C; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:54:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from workhorse (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by lariat.lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18525; Sat, 8 Jan 2000 20:53:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000108205232.01a37b60@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 20:53:52 -0700 To: Wes Peters , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: article on 4.0 Cc: Michael Lucas , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3877ACA9.9719C8EA@softweyr.com> References: <200001071514.KAA17803@blackhelicopters.org> <38769B00.7A6DE354@softweyr.com> <20000108115749.B47712@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:31 PM 1/8/2000 , Wes Peters wrote: >Nik Clayton wrote: > > > > [ FU -chat ] > > > > On Fri, Jan 07, 2000 at 07:03:44PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > *scads of device drivers (yes, scads *is* a technical term) > > > > > > I believe the correct technical term here would be a "buttload." > > > > Metric buttload or Imperial buttload? > >We've standardized on the ANSI/ISO buttload to avoid confusion, and >conversion errors. That's good. I'd hate to see anyone's butt burned up during re-entry. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message