From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 9 19:41:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.mix-media.com (apollo.mix-media.com [206.197.102.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95CF37B578 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abillstrom@xman.com) Received: from mm-128 (mm-110.mix-media.com [206.197.102.110]) by apollo.mix-media.com (Build 98 8.9.3/NT-8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA00051 for ; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:41:36 -0700 From: "Anna Billstrom" To: Subject: Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 19:39:40 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe freebsd-small To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 10 13:59:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from avalon.informatik.uni-freiburg.de (avalon.informatik.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.150.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8D237B5B8 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from schumach@informatik.uni-freiburg.de) Received: from merkur.informatik.uni-freiburg.de (merkur.informatik.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.151.11]) by avalon.informatik.uni-freiburg.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA19653 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:59:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from schumach@localhost) by merkur.informatik.uni-freiburg.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA01885 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:59:25 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:59:25 +0200 From: Benedikt Schumacher To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Message-ID: <20000410225925.A1881@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -- fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity ! Benedikt Schumacher, benedikt-schumacher@benedikt-schumacher.de Auf der Bleiche 22, 79110 Freiburg i. Br., 0170 / 230 79 81 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 10 22:31:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A088A37B6B1 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:31:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04571; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:31:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200004110531.WAA04571@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener In-Reply-To: <20000313205922.A37374@hindenburg.eboai.org> from Chip Marshall at "Mar 13, 0 08:59:22 pm" To: chip@eboai.org Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:31:30 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > And you'll have to find one. There are none to be had in the Denver > > area, for example. :-( > > A friend of mine is checking to see if you can still order them at > Circuit City... My first i-opener arrived. It's the one I ordered from their web site. The two I've ordered from Circuit City haven't shown up, and the folks at the store seem remarkably unhelpful about that. I've got it powered up and connected to the i-opener service. I did sign up for month-to-month on this unit, as I'm interested in test driving their service. I might want to pass this unit on to the in-laws for e-mail. But something to note if you plan to hack a unit. Do =not= let it take you through the tutorial if you ever want to restore it to original condition. The tutorial (with sound) is stored on the SanDiskOnChip as delivered, but once you've completed the tutorial and the unit connects to the service, the tutorial will be deleted. You will get an animated screen that says your IPAD is being updated, and you should wait a moment. That "moment", in my case, was nearly an hour. So, if you wanna hack it, get to a shell and dd the DOC somewhere safe before you let it connect (if you let it connect at all). -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 10 22:59:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0756237B596 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22218; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:59:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA28084; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004110559.XAA28084@harmony.village.org> To: chad@DCFinc.com Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Cc: chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FREEBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:31:30 PDT." <200004110531.WAA04571@freeway.dcfinc.com> References: <200004110531.WAA04571@freeway.dcfinc.com> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:59:22 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200004110531.WAA04571@freeway.dcfinc.com> "Chad R. Larson" writes: : So, if you wanna hack it, get to a shell and dd the DOC somewhere : safe before you let it connect (if you let it connect at all). It is actually a SanDisk CF, not a doc. Oh, and don't get the bright idea to connect it to a PC's IDE bus and then try to read the CF. When I connected the power to the 2.5" <-> 3.5" converter, two of the ics on the board glowed WHITE HOT. So, I've an order in at digikey to replace them. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 6:19: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (h24-66-207-153.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7DA37BA54 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 06:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01603; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 07:18:25 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: chad@DCFinc.com, "Chad R. Larson" , chip@eboai.org Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 07:17:46 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200004110531.WAA04571@freeway.dcfinc.com> In-Reply-To: <200004110531.WAA04571@freeway.dcfinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0004110718250G.00719@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, trying hard to get one from a direct manufacturer know of any? On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Chad R. Larson wrote: > > > And you'll have to find one. There are none to be had in the Denver > > > area, for example. :-( > > > > A friend of mine is checking to see if you can still order them at > > Circuit City... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10: 5:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D98A37BAE4 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:05:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA06084; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:05:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200004111705.KAA06084@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener In-Reply-To: <0004110718250G.00719@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> from dreamwvr at "Apr 11, 0 07:17:46 am" To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:05:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, dreamwvr wrote: > hi, > trying hard to get one from a direct manufacturer know of any? The one that arrived yesterday was obtained from http://www.netpliance.com Go to the "buy one" tab. Also, Circuit City is listed as the only retailer to carry them. They're sold out, but took an order (with deposit) from me on 3/17. As to "direct manufacturer", the box says "made in Tiawan". I suspect they are contract built and unavailable through any channels other than the two above. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:16:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from ns.skylink.it (ns.skylink.it [194.177.113.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D195037B505 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:16:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dirkx@webweaving.org) Received: from kim.ispra.webweaving.org (va-178.skylink.it [194.185.55.178]) by ns.skylink.it (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11048; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:11:22 +0200 Received: from kim.ispra.webweaving.org (kim.ispra.webweaving.org [10.0.0.2]) by kim.ispra.webweaving.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18545; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:15:21 GMT X-Passed: MX on Ispra.WebWeaving.org Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:15:21 GMT and masked X-No-Spam: Neither the receipients nor the senders email address(s) are to be used for Unsolicited (Commercial) Email without the explicit written consent of either party; as a per-message fee is incurred for inbound and outbound traffic to the originator. Posted-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:15:21 GMT Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:15:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik X-Sender: dirkx@kim.ispra.webweaving.org To: "Chad R. Larson" Cc: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener In-Reply-To: <200004111705.KAA06084@freeway.dcfinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Chad R. Larson wrote: > As to "direct manufacturer", the box says "made in Tiawan". I > suspect they are contract built and unavailable through any channels > other than the two above. In the last, April, EE electronics the company who, judgin by the picture, makes them advertized on page 2. I saw Curcos Taiwan at the SMAU in milano earlier this year and they are very willing to take orders for this type of machine. The catch is of course that you'll need to get a couple of hundred at the least. But then again, you get to customize every detail. And pay 250-500 dollars per machine :-) Dw To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:21:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeby.mesanet.com (pm3-3-30.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93BCE37BADB for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:21:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pcw@mesanet.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freeby.mesanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12383 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:21:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener In-Reply-To: <200004111705.KAA06084@freeway.dcfinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Chad R. Larson wrote: > As I recall, dreamwvr wrote: > > hi, > > trying hard to get one from a direct manufacturer know of any? > > The one that arrived yesterday was obtained from > > http://www.netpliance.com > > Go to the "buy one" tab. > > Also, Circuit City is listed as the only retailer to carry them. > They're sold out, but took an order (with deposit) from me on 3/17. I just got one from Circuit City (of three ordered on March 13) The BIOS (SST 256X8 I think) has been epoxied in the socket. This was easily done since they did not have to disasemble the IOpener, just open the expansion memory door. My guess is that the boot from (external) option has ben disabled in the BIOS but I haven't played with it yet. The IDE connector is still there. Does anyone have any experience with (post-linux-hack) IOpeners? > > As to "direct manufacturer", the box says "made in Tiawan". I > suspect they are contract built and unavailable through any channels > other than the two above. > > -crl > -- > Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? > chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net > DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:28: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (mail-blue.research.att.com [135.207.30.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9081D37BB93 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:28:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ji@research.att.com) Received: from amontillado.research.att.com (amontillado.research.att.com [135.207.24.32]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00304CE12; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bual.research.att.com (bual.research.att.com [135.207.24.19]) by amontillado.research.att.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06816; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:28:51 -0400 (EDT) From: John Ioannidis Received: (from ji@localhost) by bual.research.att.com (8.7.5/8.7) id NAA11642; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200004111727.NAA11642@bual.research.att.com> To: chad@DCFinc.com, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Cc: chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you read carefully, you'll find that in addition to the $100 for the device, they charge you $40 for S&H which is kinda steep. You also have to use their service for at least 90 days which adds another $65 to the deal. So the price is more like $200, which is still decent, if you remember to cancel after 91 days (if you cancel earlier, there is a $500 deactivation charge). So, buyer beware, and have fun with it! /ji -- /\ ASCII ribbon | John Ioannidis * Secure Systems Research Department \/ campaign | AT&T Labs - Research * Florham Park, NJ 07932 /\ against | "Intellectuals trying to out-intellectual / \ HTML email. | other intellectuals" (Fritz the Cat) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:28:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D6B37BBAF for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:28:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24357; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:28:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA31424; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004111727.LAA31424@harmony.village.org> To: "Peter C. Wallace" Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:21:16 PDT." References: Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:27:56 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message "Peter C. Wallace" writes: : I just got one from Circuit City (of three ordered on March 13) : The BIOS (SST 256X8 I think) has been epoxied in the socket. This was : easily done since they did not have to disasemble the IOpener, just open : the expansion memory door. My guess is that the boot from (external) : option has ben disabled in the BIOS but I haven't played with it yet. The : IDE connector is still there. Does anyone have any experience with : (post-linux-hack) IOpeners? The BIOS refuses to boot if there are *ANY* other devices on the scsi chain. I think this is in the BIOS, but might be in the QNX boot loader. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:31: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153AE37BB93 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:30:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24373; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA31452; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:30:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004111730.LAA31452@harmony.village.org> To: John Ioannidis Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Cc: chad@DCFinc.com, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:27:48 EDT." <200004111727.NAA11642@bual.research.att.com> References: <200004111727.NAA11642@bual.research.att.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:30:45 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200004111727.NAA11642@bual.research.att.com> John Ioannidis writes: : If you read carefully, you'll find that in addition to the $100 for the device, they charge you $40 for S&H which is kinda steep. You also have to use : their service for at least 90 days which adds another $65 to the deal. : So the price is more like $200, which is still decent, if you remember to : cancel after 91 days (if you cancel earlier, there is a $500 deactivation : charge). : : So, buyer beware, and have fun with it! I got mine at circuit city with no silly contracts. Too bad I lit up a couple of the ic's on the board... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:35:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (h24-66-207-153.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42AFE37B505 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:35:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01757; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:35:02 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: chad@DCFinc.com, "Chad R. Larson" , dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:28:17 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200004111705.KAA06084@freeway.dcfinc.com> In-Reply-To: <200004111705.KAA06084@freeway.dcfinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0004111135010Q.00719@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi Chad, > The one that arrived yesterday was obtained from they must be changing their website as they are switching to https for ordering over the wire. as well they have re-engineered it so that the original method will not work but this has been re-engineered again so that it does work:-)) went to the actual web of the co in taiwan that apparently puts it togetther but have received no reply. as well seems strange to me that they are just putting up a webpage for a co that is selling 100k of units to I-Opener. as well noticed that they had to reboot their system over the weekend. give you one guess on what os they are running;-)) dead giveaway when one default was m$ iis.. oh well maybe they will switch one day to Linux or *BSD || maybe both:-)) Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > http://www.netpliance.com > > Go to the "buy one" tab. > > Also, Circuit City is listed as the only retailer to carry them. > They're sold out, but took an order (with deposit) from me on 3/17. > > As to "direct manufacturer", the box says "made in Tiawan". I > suspect they are contract built and unavailable through any channels > other than the two above. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:36:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from hindenburg.eboai.org (hindenburg.eboai.org [205.181.254.190]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8438137B98C for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:36:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chip@chocobo.cx) Received: by hindenburg.eboai.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D63013D55; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:36:25 -0400 From: Chip Marshall To: "Peter C. Wallace" Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Message-ID: <20000411133625.A65032@setzer.chocobo.cx> Reply-To: chip@chocobo.cx References: <200004111705.KAA06084@freeway.dcfinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.4i In-Reply-To: ; from pcw@mesanet.com on Tue, Apr 11, 2000 at 10:21:16AM -0700 X-URL: http://www.chocobo.cx/chip/ X-OS: FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On April 11, 2000, Peter C. Wallace sent me the following: > I just got one from Circuit City (of three ordered on March 13) > The BIOS (SST 256X8 I think) has been epoxied in the socket. This was > easily done since they did not have to disasemble the IOpener, just open > the expansion memory door. My guess is that the boot from (external) > option has ben disabled in the BIOS but I haven't played with it yet. The > IDE connector is still there. Does anyone have any experience with > (post-linux-hack) IOpeners? I've been doing some reading about the new ones. Near as anyone can tell, there is the new BIOS version, which disallows booting from anything other than the SanDisk, and has been epoxied to the MB. Also, rumour has it that 4 of the IDE pins have been snipped off, but they are just the power pins, so it's not a big deal. You can purchase a new (old) BIOS chip from www.badflash.com for about $20USD. There has also been a rumor that the new BIOS won't let you boot if the OS on the SanDisk is not QNX, but I don't know if there is any truth behind it. A friend of mine got his I-Opener yesterday, and is attempting to pu NetBSD on the flash, so we will soon find out. -- Chip Marshall http://www.chocobo.cx/chip/ Finger for PGP GCM/CS d+(-) s+:++ a--- C++ UB++++ P+++$ L- E--- W++ N+(++) o K? w O M+ V- PS PE Y? PGP++ t+@ 5 X(+) R>+ t+() b+>++ DI++++ D(-) G e>++ h!>++ r--- y To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:47:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (h24-66-207-153.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF9937BB94 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01762; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:46:52 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: Dirk-Willem van Gulik , "Chad R. Larson" Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:38:16 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0004111146520R.00719@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, > In the last, April, EE electronics the company who, judgin by the picture, > makes them advertized on page 2. I saw Curcos Taiwan at the SMAU in milano do you have a url as not certain then that i had the right place.. but it appeared correct.. > earlier this year and they are very willing to take orders for this type > of machine. The catch is of course that you'll need to get a couple of > hundred at the least. But then again, you get to customize every detail. if there is a way my co will bring in for *BSD and Linux as we do both and sort of resent the attitude that open innovation is being rerouted.. b.t.w. there is a url with the changes one needs to do on Linux to switch so it is usable again AFAIK at least. but since i have yet to try it physically it is still on my wish list only.. please get the url and let me know what should be there.. i will negotiate with them:-)) mind you it needs to be easily usable by both Linux and *BSD or i would not go after it. AFAIK I-Opener adjusted their attitude when they discovered that Linux penguins were adjusting the sets to tune into a different frequency;-)) seems they were losing money @ $99.00 making it on their services which is just fine model for them. so if i did successfully bring it in i need to know how many would be interested? could be a no win situation but maybe ! well gotta go! Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > And pay 250-500 dollars per machine :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 10:51:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (h24-66-207-153.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50AA337B96A for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01767; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:50:37 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: chip@chocobo.cx, Chip Marshall , "Peter C. Wallace" Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:48:11 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200004111705.KAA06084@freeway.dcfinc.com> <20000411133625.A65032@setzer.chocobo.cx> In-Reply-To: <20000411133625.A65032@setzer.chocobo.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0004111150370S.00719@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all, > I've been doing some reading about the new ones. Near as anyone can > tell, there is the new BIOS version, which disallows booting from > anything other than the SanDisk, and has been epoxied to the MB. Also, > rumour has it that 4 of the IDE pins have been snipped off, but they > are just the power pins, so it's not a big deal. > You can purchase a new (old) BIOS chip from www.badflash.com for about > $20USD. that is good news! > There has also been a rumor that the new BIOS won't let you boot if > the OS on the SanDisk is not QNX, but I don't know if there is any > truth behind it. A friend of mine got his I-Opener yesterday, and is > attempting to pu NetBSD on the flash, so we will soon find out. read something like that is what they are doing which is bad karma IMHO:-)) well 'if' the manufacturer is found then most liely they would sell the unscrewedup version.. if they are not in a exclusive arrangement but somehow i doubt it.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 21:24:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from well.apcs.com.au (well.apcs.com.au [203.41.196.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06D937BC23 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:24:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keith@well.apcs.com.au) Received: (from keith@localhost) by well.apcs.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA00852; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:08:30 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from keith) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200004111730.LAA31452@harmony.village.org> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:08:30 +1000 (EST) From: Keith To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, chip@eboai.org, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chad@DCFinc.com, John Ioannidis Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Warner, If you can get the smoke back in the box it may work again :-) Keith On 11-Apr-00 Warner Losh wrote: > I got mine at circuit city with no silly contracts. Too bad I lit up > a couple of the ic's on the board... > > Warner > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Keith Anderson Australia Power Control Systems Pty. Limited. Member of the Australian Technology Showcase. http://www.apcs.com.au +61 2 66 534843 Date: 12-Apr-00 Time: 14:06:01 Satellite Service 64K to 8Meg EzyISP Accounting Systems -------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 21:32:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A67637BC25 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:32:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26434; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:32:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA35083; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:32:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004120432.WAA35083@harmony.village.org> To: Keith Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, chip@eboai.org, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chad@DCFinc.com, John Ioannidis In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:08:30 +1000." References: Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:32:12 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Keith writes: : If you can get the smoke back in the box it may work again :-) Well, one of the minor perks of working for a hardware mfg company is that sometimes the let me order parts at their cost. So this is the next best thing. I just buy more magic smoke. Now, this time next week the parts will be here so I can plop them back on and try again. Maybe by then the problem will be solved. Or maybe not. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 22: 0:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EA437BC70 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:00:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07692; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:00:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200004120500.WAA07692@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener In-Reply-To: from Dirk-Willem van Gulik at "Apr 11, 0 07:15:21 pm" To: dirkx@webweaving.org (Dirk-Willem van Gulik) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:00:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: > In the last, April, EE electronics the company who, judgin by the > picture, makes them advertized on page 2. I saw Curcos Taiwan at the > SMAU in milano earlier this year and they are very willing to take > orders for this type of machine. The catch is of course that you'll > need to get a couple of hundred at the least. But then again, you get > to customize every detail. And pay 250-500 dollars per machine :-) Well, then. Sounds like a business opportunity. Get a loan, order the couple of hundred with the same feature-set (USB, 800x600 LCD, microphone, V.90 modem, Yamaha sound, etc.). Put a FreeBSD install floppy set into the flash memory, so it can do a network install via dial-up PPP or the parallel-port IP. Sell them here, or through the BSD Mall, or on the net, or via e-bay for whatever you have to pay for them plus, say, 10 percent. Seriously. Worse case investment is 200 units times $500 = a hunnert grand. If you can, indeed, sell them for cost + 10, you make 10 thousand bucks, which should surely cover a couple of weekends putting together the flash RAM image you'd need. Then, there's the service bureau. Make sure the image on the flash is always able to do another net install. Put a modem on a FreeBSD box at your house, offer up images with as many different feature sets as you can imagine (X terminal, web browser, etc.) and let folks fetch them for a fee. Or, see how much the manufacturer would nick you to replace the flash with a real hard drive and sell them as a pseudo-laptop for folks who only need a minimalist computer and don't have much room. College kids and the like. Current lap-tops are =too= capable (and consequently expensive) for the needs of a lot of folks. Get a quote, then check back here for your early market survey... -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 22: 3:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEE0D37BA90 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:03:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07732; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:02:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200004120502.WAA07732@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener In-Reply-To: <200004111727.LAA31424@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Apr 11, 0 11:27:56 am" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:02:10 -0700 (MST) Cc: pcw@mesanet.com, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, Warner Losh wrote: > The BIOS refuses to boot if there are *ANY* other devices on the > scsi chain. I think this is in the BIOS, but might be in the QNX > boot loader. Ummm... SCSI chain? Did I miss something? Isn't the only likely mass storage on the IDE controller or the USB? -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 22:13:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775BA37B795 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:13:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07804; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:13:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200004120513.WAA07804@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener In-Reply-To: <0004111146520R.00719@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> from dreamwvr at "Apr 11, 0 11:38:16 am" To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:13:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: dirkx@webweaving.org, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, dreamwvr wrote: > ...seems they were losing money @ $99.00 making it on their services > which is just fine model for them. Seems to me the easiest thing would be for Netpliance to offer to sell the "hackable" hardware, without the tutorial software and the code that connects to their home base, but that instead drops into the QNX shell at boot. Charge some reasonable profit for whatever they're paying for the hardware in the quantities they buy. I'm guessing they could make money on the unit at $499. Would you buy one at that price? I probably would. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 22:18:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A2837B795 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:18:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26674; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:18:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA35454; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200004120518.XAA35454@harmony.village.org> To: chad@DCFinc.com Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Cc: pcw@mesanet.com, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:02:10 PDT." <200004120502.WAA07732@freeway.dcfinc.com> References: <200004120502.WAA07732@freeway.dcfinc.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:18:18 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200004120502.WAA07732@freeway.dcfinc.com> "Chad R. Larson" writes: : As I recall, Warner Losh wrote: : > The BIOS refuses to boot if there are *ANY* other devices on the : > scsi chain. I think this is in the BIOS, but might be in the QNX : > boot loader. : : Ummm... SCSI chain? Did I miss something? Isn't the only likely : mass storage on the IDE controller or the USB? I did mean IDE chain. I'm so used to talking scsi this ans scsi that that I mistyped. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 22:30:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (h24-66-207-153.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9F837BC2B for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:30:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01017; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:29:45 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: chad@DCFinc.com, "Chad R. Larson" , dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, Warner Losh Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:22:27 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: dirkx@webweaving.org, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200004120513.WAA07804@freeway.dcfinc.com> In-Reply-To: <200004120513.WAA07804@freeway.dcfinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00041123294403.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi Chad, > > ...seems they were losing money @ $99.00 making it on their services > > which is just fine model for them. hi Warner you might want to parse this url for info that might assist you;-)) http://www.i-opener-linux.net/ agreed .. goto slashdot 'they might' be singing a diff tune so we might be better off waiting a week or 2.. > Seems to me the easiest thing would be for Netpliance to offer to > sell the "hackable" hardware, without the tutorial software and the > code that connects to their home base, but that instead drops into > the QNX shell at boot. .. would agree who using open source wants that crap anyhow? any hands.. nope:-)) > Charge some reasonable profit for whatever they're paying for the > hardware in the quantities they buy. I'm guessing they could make > money on the unit at $499. Would you buy one at that price? I most likely they could make $$ at $200 - $250 IMHO.. but depending on what it did @ $499 would make a diff in the decision pattern that is for sure.. Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > probably would. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 22:36:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (h24-66-207-153.xx.wave.shaw.ca [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F14437BA90 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:36:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01022; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:36:05 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: chad@DCFinc.com, "Chad R. Larson" , dirkx@webweaving.org (Dirk-Willem van Gulik) Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:31:43 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200004120500.WAA07692@freeway.dcfinc.com> In-Reply-To: <200004120500.WAA07692@freeway.dcfinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00041123360504.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, now your going the route that i would like to see.. through so if someone can locate the builder so i can contact them i will maybe do this exact thing.. but i would need help i would send one to 3 areas.. open *bsd projects that i appreciate and would like to see benefit. the others i would sell once i got it figured out that is .. since i am far from mr.hardware this could be quite challenging but i am willing to give it a try.. Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > > Get a loan, order the couple of hundred with the same feature-set > (USB, 800x600 LCD, microphone, V.90 modem, Yamaha sound, etc.). > > Put a FreeBSD install floppy set into the flash memory, so it can do > a network install via dial-up PPP or the parallel-port IP. Sell > them here, or through the BSD Mall, or on the net, or via e-bay for > whatever you have to pay for them plus, say, 10 percent. > > Seriously. Worse case investment is 200 units times $500 = a > hunnert grand. If you can, indeed, sell them for cost + 10, you > make 10 thousand bucks, which should surely cover a couple of > weekends putting together the flash RAM image you'd need. > > Then, there's the service bureau. Make sure the image on the flash > is always able to do another net install. Put a modem on a FreeBSD > box at your house, offer up images with as many different feature > sets as you can imagine (X terminal, web browser, etc.) and let > folks fetch them for a fee. > > Or, see how much the manufacturer would nick you to replace the > flash with a real hard drive and sell them as a pseudo-laptop for > folks who only need a minimalist computer and don't have much room. > College kids and the like. Current lap-tops are =too= capable (and > consequently expensive) for the needs of a lot of folks. > > Get a quote, then check back here for your early market survey... > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 23:19: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259BF37B6F7 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA08009; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:18:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200004120618.XAA08009@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener In-Reply-To: <00041123294403.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> from dreamwvr at "Apr 11, 0 11:22:27 pm" To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:18:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, imp@village.org, dirkx@webweaving.org, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, dreamwvr wrote: > > Seems to me the easiest thing would be for Netpliance to offer to > > sell the "hackable" hardware, without the tutorial software and the > > code that connects to their home base, but that instead drops into > > the QNX shell at boot. > .. would agree who using open source wants that crap anyhow? > any hands.. nope:-)) My hand is up... I did some QNX development a few years back for an embedded application. I was fairly impressed then, and they seem to have gotten better (from a visit to their web site, as well as poking my IPAD). Really, unless the licence contributes a substantial amount to the delivered cost, having a shell that knows how to do things like "ls" and "dd" would be very useful to the hacker wanting to bootstrap his way to something more to his taste. This gizmo would be worth while to a lot more people if they didn't have to open it up and hack the hardware. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 11 23:35: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from gw.tc.ru (gw-tc.gamma.ru [213.24.208.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8041837BC9C for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:34:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hobbit@tc.ru) Received: from alla (dhcp85.telecom [192.168.1.85]) by gw.tc.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11504 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:34:55 +0400 (MSD) Message-ID: <004101bfa449$276595c0$5501a8c0@telecom> From: "Oleg Pticin" To: Subject: Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:34:28 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFA46A.AE55A400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFA46A.AE55A400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable subscribe ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFA46A.AE55A400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFA46A.AE55A400-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 12 7: 8:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (24.66.207.153.ab.wave.home.com [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E405D37B8D7 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:08:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01253; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:08:18 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: chad@DCFinc.com, "Chad R. Larson" , dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Subject: Re: Netpliance Iopener Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:02:12 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, imp@village.org, dirkx@webweaving.org, chip@eboai.org, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200004120618.XAA08009@freeway.dcfinc.com> In-Reply-To: <200004120618.XAA08009@freeway.dcfinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00041208081806.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi Chad, > Really, unless the licence contributes a substantial amount to the > delivered cost, having a shell that knows how to do things like "ls" > and "dd" would be very useful to the hacker wanting to bootstrap his > way to something more to his taste. yes linux or *bsd would be tasteful;-)) > This gizmo would be worth while to a lot more people if they didn't > have to open it up and hack the hardware. agreed IMHO my hardware skills leave much to be desired and well i personally like the idea of as little mucking around with the hardware as possible. seems to me that if they named a 'reasonable price' most likely they would win. would like to see a simular device or same that a project revolves around as a "look at this" it would be real attractive to people that want to see something other than that old dusty 486 with 8 meg of ram for the front office. well on the wish it was less hassle to get list.. Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 12 19:39:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA9D937BB5D for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10853 for small@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <200004130239.TAA10853@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: i-opener shipping To: small@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:39:12 -0700 (MST) Reply-To: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This might have bearing on the discussion about obtaining i-opener hardware directly from the manufacturer. According to the FedEX tracker, mine was drop shipped from Tiawan. > - Scan Activity: > - Delivered PHOENIX AZ 04/10 09:36 > - Placed on Van PHOENIX AZ 04/10 07:35 > - Arrived at FedEx Destination Location PHOENIX AZ 04/10 06:52 > - Arrived at FedEx Ramp PHOENIX AZ 04/08 05:08 > - Left FedEx Ramp PHOENIX AZ 04/08 07:09 > - Arrived at FedEx Ramp PHOENIX AZ 04/08 07:08 > - Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 04/08 01:54 > - Left FedEx Ramp ANCHORAGE AK 04/07 16:10 > - Left FedEx Sort Facility ANCHORAGE AK 04/07 15:08 > - Arrived at FedEx Ramp ANCHORAGE AK 04/07 13:28 > - Left FedEx Ramp C.K.S. INTL AIRPORT TW 04/07 20:41 > - Left FedEx Origin Location TAOYUAN CITY TW 04/07 11:51 > - Multiple Piece Shipment TAOYUAN CITY TW 04/07 11:03 Musta been built in Taoyuan City. Does that help? -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 12 21:21:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (24.66.207.153.ab.wave.home.com [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187D637BC8D for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 21:21:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01664; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:20:51 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: chad@DCFinc.com, "Chad R. Larson" , small@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: i-opener shipping Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:16:09 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: <200004130239.TAA10853@freeway.dcfinc.com> In-Reply-To: <200004130239.TAA10853@freeway.dcfinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0004122220510J.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, what we need to do is simulate the shipment by calling FedEx and saying i would like to trace a shipment from .. below to me.. then when they say the below say.. and just to confirm it is coming from which company? then write that down as you check your records;-)) reason being i ship lots via UPS and FedEx and have had shipments that got screwed up where they would gladly tell me where it is coming from .. they just want to make sure it gets delivered.. but AFAIK you need to know a tracking number and talk to a real person as they would have that info.. its not top secret or anything but would tell us where it was shipped from:-)) Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > > - Multiple Piece Shipment TAOYUAN CITY TW 04/07 11:03 > > Musta been built in Taoyuan City. Does that help? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 13 0:27:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from bsd.xcem.com (bsd.firstnethou.com [206.42.15.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A3037B9C0 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:27:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jp@xcem.com) Received: from www (www.g4u.com [206.42.15.148]) by bsd.xcem.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA15556; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 02:13:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <06e701bfa519$da4602d0$940f2ace@g4u.com> From: "Jozko Pucik" To: Cc: References: <200004130239.TAA10853@freeway.dcfinc.com> <0004122220510J.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Subject: Re: i-opener shipping Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 02:28:22 -0500 Organization: Vortran Systems Int'l. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG please, this is not an shipper nor shippe paradise keep it that way thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: dreamwvr To: ; Chad R. Larson ; Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 11:16 PM Subject: Re: i-opener shipping hi, what we need to do is simulate the shipment by calling FedEx and saying i would like to trace a shipment from .. below to me.. then when they say the below say.. and just to confirm it is coming from which company? then write that down as you check your records;-)) reason being i ship lots via UPS and FedEx and have had shipments that got screwed up where they would gladly tell me where it is coming from .. they just want to make sure it gets delivered.. but AFAIK you need to know a tracking number and talk to a real person as they would have that info.. its not top secret or anything but would tell us where it was shipped from:-)) Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > > - Multiple Piece Shipment TAOYUAN CITY TW 04/07 11:03 > > Musta been built in Taoyuan City. Does that help? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 13 0:47:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F308637BC1C for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:47:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jeff.Leblanc@central.sun.com) Received: from bast.Central.Sun.COM ([129.147.4.36]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12703 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neversummer (neversummer [129.147.41.92]) by bast.Central.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v1.7) with SMTP id BAA04893 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Jeff LeBlanc Reply-To: Jeff LeBlanc Subject: Re: i-opener shipping To: small@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: oXL4bFQITrRw2OwhyK555Q== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.1.0 CDE Version 1.1.1 SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i enjoyed the exchange myself. > Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org > From: "Jozko Pucik" > To: > Cc: > Subject: Re: i-opener shipping > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 02:28:22 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > please, this is not an shipper nor shippe paradise keep it that way > thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dreamwvr > To: ; Chad R. Larson ; > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 11:16 PM > Subject: Re: i-opener shipping > > > hi, > what we need to do is simulate the shipment by calling FedEx and saying > i would like to trace a shipment from .. below to me.. > then when they say the below say.. and just to confirm it is coming > from which company? then write that down as you check your > records;-)) reason being i ship lots via UPS and FedEx and have > had shipments that got screwed up where they would gladly tell me > where it is coming from .. they just want to make sure it gets delivered.. > but AFAIK you need to know a tracking number and talk to a real > person as they would have that info.. its not top secret or anything > but would tell us where it was shipped from:-)) > Best Regards, > dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > > > - Multiple Piece Shipment TAOYUAN CITY TW 04/07 11:03 > > > > Musta been built in Taoyuan City. Does that help? > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message -- /\ \\ \ Jeff LeBlanc \ \\ / Enterprise Services / \/ / / Sun Microsystems / / \//\ 500 Eldorado Blvd, MS UBRM04-163 \//\ / / Broomfield, CO 80021 / / /\ / hours: Wed-Sat 8p-6a / \\ \ phone: 303-464-4536 internal: 50536 \ \\ email: jeff.leblanc@central.sun.com \/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 13 9:28: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (24.66.207.153.ab.wave.home.com [24.66.207.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E779737B8A7 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:27:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neo@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by loki.dyn.ez-ip.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02746; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:27:27 -0600 From: dreamwvr Reply-To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Organization: dreamwvr.com To: Jeff LeBlanc , Jeff LeBlanc , dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, chad@DCFinc.com Subject: Re: i-opener shipping Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:43:43 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain References: In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0004131027260U.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, thanks Jeff! it seems that a co that would change the hardware to deter development with the exception of their own os. as a planned move to prevent innovation by others should expect people to find more acceptable route. since a traceroute of the from co in taiwan would allow many to access the hardware without monopoly occuring this is very acceptable IMHO. my co would love to distribute but the amount of volume required 'most likely' will deter this.. Seems like this is a very good solution for all open source oses. From experience in Linux since i am fascinated with picoBSD but have yet get it to usable quality for my co use. admittedly i am new to pico so this is no surprise .. but do use OpenBSD so not entirely lost. oh well my plan was to evaluate in the co lab. but until i can get a reliable open sourceable supply am hooped. really do not consider the co that originally sold this with their services a open co since their move. apparently they are reconsidering so you never know but still if it is done once it could just as easily occur again. Solution? go direct to the manufacturer and buy enough units to make it worthwhile for them. then it remains open as their is a business case for them. Best Regards, dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Jeff LeBlanc wrote: > sounds like good thinking to me. ...and i thought the mention of this quite > appropriate for posting on the list. i just wanted to express my support. > > have a good day, guys. > > -J > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 13 15:39:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD7037BDF8 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:39:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 742DC2DC0A; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:43:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 100227811; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:35:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E00A10E17 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:35:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:35:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: MINIX utilities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, You've seen probably the announcement that the license for Minix has been changed to BSD. I've had for a long time a couple of utilities ported from Minix to FreeBSD, among others: * mostly complete Bourne shell. Here's the size for a static binary: # size sh text data bss dec hex filename 47551 1632 3376 52559 cd4f sh * mined - Minix editor. Nice and small full-screen editor. The keybindings are plain crazy, but easily changeable. Supports regex, search and replace and other features. # size mined text data bss dec hex filename 35779 1224 7808 44811 af0b mined * others: ftpd, telnetd Generally speaking, porting this stuff is quite easy, but I didn't have enough motivation to do it with other utilities. Now, my question is: should they go to ports, or under tinyware? Mined and msh had been there already once upon a time, but then removed due to incompatible old license. Any thoughts? Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 13 16:40:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from members.unlimited.net (members.unlimited.net [209.186.200.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E133137BC2E for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from norami@unlimited.net) Received: from unlimited.net (ts1-58.unlimited.net [209.186.200.58]) by members.unlimited.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12963; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:31:31 -0700 Message-ID: <38F65D33.605397C6@unlimited.net> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:50:11 -0700 From: John Oram Reply-To: norami@unlimited.net Organization: norAmi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,x-ns1dzwuwOCyNhP,x-ns2r2809OnmPe2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com Cc: Jeff LeBlanc , chad@DCFinc.com, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: i-opener shipping References: <0004131027260U.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Below are comments from a friend who works for a Siicon Valley computer manufacturer. They may be useful when thinking about selling inexpensive open source hardware and remainig in business because your making a profit. John Oram ----------------------------------------------------------------- John: i-Opener is an interesting business model for sure. They clearly wanted to set up a business case (create a market) that provided low cost hardware to promote an on going service. The money would be made on the monthly service fees and not the hardware purchase. A low upfront cost (entry point) that was not very complicated to use, easy to setup and maintain. All the features and extras would be in the service for the most part. Like DVD without the MPEG Board - Soft MPEG. Looks like what happened is they developed interest in low cost hardware and a service no one really wants at the current price offering. A VT920 Smart Term that can be programmed. Looks like they can sell the hardware and not sell the service at the current price. The question is margin? If the hardware has any margin in it, they may have to switch sides and look at making some money off the hardware and give up (or lower the cost) on the service. If they did this they would control the market and keep out the competition. They could license and distribute the product alone. ONLY if a margin does exist. If the hardware is a loss leader (at this price point) it will get more sticky and ugly. Also it is not an open source system with respect to the BIOS. And the BIOS is all your really getting. You would take the BIOS (and BOOT ROM) and remove the existing turnkey application. It than becomes a modified (and turns it to your) Open source application. The real draw here is the $99 complete turnkey computer system hardware package. For the price of a good sound card you get a fully developed and integrated hardware package with installed OS. You have the ability (to some extent) to use many of the off the shelf Adonis because of the standard buss (I'm using this term very loosely) or hardware interface. Truth of the matter is; If you change out the IDE hard disk for one that is not supported by the BIOS and your in the dumper. BOOTP on ROM has a very limited space for the boot strap loader. Lookup tables take up a lot of space that is not available. We do four hard disks in the ST line and we only have 11 bytes left in the Flash for the current BIOS. If they do not publish the vector tables for this system it is not open source on the BIOS. Everything being standard and generic means all the added value will be in the software you provide after the existing application has been removed. That is unless you just intend to sell the hardware with no added value. If you add value and expect to add some expense to the core product; What will it be revalued at? If you start getting close to a $300 cost to the end user you will be competing with e-systems. The e-system will be the better value. How much margin do you figure is in the $99? Tom ----------------------------------------------------------------- dreamwvr wrote: > > hi, > thanks Jeff! it seems that a co that would change the > hardware to deter development with the exception of their own os. as a > planned move to prevent innovation by others should expect people to find > more acceptable route. since a traceroute of the from co in taiwan would > allow many to access the hardware without monopoly occuring this is > very acceptable IMHO. my co would love to distribute but the amount > of volume required 'most likely' will deter this.. Seems like this is a very > good solution for all open source oses. From experience in Linux since i > am fascinated with picoBSD but have yet get it to usable quality > for my co use. admittedly i am new to pico so this is no surprise .. > but do use OpenBSD so not entirely lost. oh well my plan was to > evaluate in the co lab. but until i can get a reliable open sourceable > supply am hooped. really do not consider the co that originally sold > this with their services a open co since their move. apparently they are > reconsidering so you never know but still if it is done once it could > just as easily occur again. Solution? go direct to the manufacturer > and buy enough units to make it worthwhile for them. then it remains > open as their is a business case for them. > Best Regards, > dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Jeff LeBlanc wrote: > > sounds like good thinking to me. ...and i thought the mention of this quite > > appropriate for posting on the list. i just wanted to express my support. > > > > have a good day, guys. > > > > -J > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 13 18:44:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (mass.cdrom.com [204.216.28.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CD637BE91 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01129; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:50:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200004140150.SAA01129@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MINIX utilities In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:35:38 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:50:10 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Now, my question is: should they go to ports, or under tinyware? Mined and > msh had been there already once upon a time, but then removed due to > incompatible old license. > > Any thoughts? Ports. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 13 20:14: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B925037BE45 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tim@futuresouth.com) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21430; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:13:12 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:13:12 -0500 From: Tim Tsai To: John Oram Cc: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, Jeff LeBlanc , chad@DCFinc.com, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: i-opener shipping Message-ID: <20000413221312.A20933@futuresouth.com> References: <0004131027260U.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> <38F65D33.605397C6@unlimited.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i In-Reply-To: <38F65D33.605397C6@unlimited.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is NO margin. Netpliance is taking a loss on the hardware and making it up on the service and ultimately the value of the subscriber base. I haven't worked actively in embedded systems arena for a year or so but I am pretty sure you still can't build the equivalent of I-Opener for $99 - in any practical volume. The passive color LCD itself would cost the majority, if not all, of the $99. I'd love to be proven wrong but hardware prices haven't come down THAT much. Tim On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 at 04:50:11PM -0700, John Oram wrote: > Below are comments from a friend who works for a Siicon Valley computer > manufacturer. They may be useful when thinking about selling inexpensive > open source hardware and remainig in business because your making a > profit. > > John Oram > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > John: > > i-Opener is an interesting business model for sure. They clearly > wanted to set up a business case (create a market) that provided low > cost hardware to promote an on going service. The money would be > made on the monthly service fees and not the hardware purchase. A > low upfront cost (entry point) that was not very complicated to use, > easy to setup and maintain. All the features and extras would be in > the service for the most part. Like DVD without the MPEG Board > - Soft MPEG. > > Looks like what happened is they developed interest in low cost > hardware and a service no one really wants at the current price > offering. A VT920 Smart Term that can be programmed. Looks like > they can sell the hardware and not sell the service at the current > price. The question is margin? > > If the hardware has any margin in it, they may have to switch sides > and look at making some money off the hardware and give up (or lower > the cost) on the service. > > If they did this they would control the market and keep out the > competition. They could license and distribute the product alone. > ONLY if a margin does exist. If the hardware is a loss leader > (at this price point) it will get more sticky and ugly. > > Also it is not an open source system with respect to the BIOS. And > the BIOS is all your really getting. You would take the BIOS (and > BOOT ROM) and remove the existing turnkey application. It than > becomes a modified (and turns it to your) Open source application. > The real draw here is the $99 complete turnkey computer system > hardware package. For the price of a good sound card you get a > fully developed and integrated hardware package with installed OS. > > You have the ability (to some extent) to use many of the off the > shelf Adonis because of the standard buss (I'm using this term very > loosely) or hardware interface. Truth of the matter is; If you > change out the IDE hard disk for one that is not supported by the > BIOS and your in the dumper. BOOTP on ROM has a very limited space > for the boot strap loader. Lookup tables take up a lot of space > that is not available. We do four hard disks in the ST line and > we only have 11 bytes left in the Flash for the current BIOS. If > they do not publish the vector tables for this system it is not open > source on the BIOS. > > Everything being standard and generic means all the added value will > be in the software you provide after the existing application has been > removed. > > That is unless you just intend to sell the hardware with no added value. > If you add value and expect to add some expense to the core product; > What will it be revalued at? > > If you start getting close to a $300 cost to the end user you will > be competing with e-systems. The e-system will be the better value. > > How much margin do you figure is in the $99? > > Tom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > dreamwvr wrote: > > > > hi, > > thanks Jeff! it seems that a co that would change the > > hardware to deter development with the exception of their own os. as a > > planned move to prevent innovation by others should expect people to find > > more acceptable route. since a traceroute of the from co in taiwan would > > allow many to access the hardware without monopoly occuring this is > > very acceptable IMHO. my co would love to distribute but the amount > > of volume required 'most likely' will deter this.. Seems like this is a very > > good solution for all open source oses. From experience in Linux since i > > am fascinated with picoBSD but have yet get it to usable quality > > for my co use. admittedly i am new to pico so this is no surprise .. > > but do use OpenBSD so not entirely lost. oh well my plan was to > > evaluate in the co lab. but until i can get a reliable open sourceable > > supply am hooped. really do not consider the co that originally sold > > this with their services a open co since their move. apparently they are > > reconsidering so you never know but still if it is done once it could > > just as easily occur again. Solution? go direct to the manufacturer > > and buy enough units to make it worthwhile for them. then it remains > > open as their is a business case for them. > > Best Regards, > > dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > > On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Jeff LeBlanc wrote: > > > sounds like good thinking to me. ...and i thought the mention of this quite > > > appropriate for posting on the list. i just wanted to express my support. > > > > > > have a good day, guys. > > > > > > -J > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 13 20:22:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from PacHell.TelcoSucks.org (PacHell.TelcoSucks.org [207.90.181.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E44637BE33 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:22:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@PacHell.TelcoSucks.org) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by PacHell.TelcoSucks.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA15079 for small@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:22:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:22:07 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: small@freebsd.org Subject: I-opener now also at CompUSA Message-ID: <20000413202207.L2695@PacHell.TelcoSucks.org> Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just saw it at a local CompUSA, preordered one, as I always forgot to stop at Circuit City. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 14 7:10:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from goku.cl.msu.edu (goku.cl.msu.edu [35.8.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB3437BEA8 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 07:10:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dervish@goku.cl.msu.edu) Received: (from dervish@localhost) by goku.cl.msu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA45730 for freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:10:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dervish) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:10:15 -0400 From: Bush Doctor To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MINIX utilities Message-ID: <20000414101015.A45686@goku.cl.msu.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from abial@webgiro.com on Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 12:35:38AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 WWW-Home-Page: http://bantu.cl.msu.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Out of da blue Andrzej Bialecki aka (abial@webgiro.com) said: > Hi, > > You've seen probably the announcement that the license for Minix has been > changed to BSD. I've had for a long time a couple of utilities ported from > Minix to FreeBSD, among others: > > * mostly complete Bourne shell. Here's the size for a static binary: > # size sh > text data bss dec hex filename > 47551 1632 3376 52559 cd4f sh > > * mined - Minix editor. Nice and small full-screen editor. The keybindings > are plain crazy, but easily changeable. Supports regex, search and replace > and other features. > # size mined > text data bss dec hex filename > 35779 1224 7808 44811 af0b mined > > * others: ftpd, telnetd > > Generally speaking, porting this stuff is quite easy, but I didn't have > enough motivation to do it with other utilities. > > Now, my question is: should they go to ports, or under tinyware? Mined and > msh had been there already once upon a time, but then removed due to > incompatible old license. > > Any thoughts? Whatever the consensus, I'd like to help in porting the utilities. Minix took me a long way in learning about operating systems ;-) Ran it first on a 286 I did. > > Andrzej Bialecki > > // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) > // ------------------------------------------------------------------- > // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- > // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- > > > #;^) -- f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. bush doctor To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 14 7:20:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from buzz.slic.com (eagle.slic.com [216.73.13.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B6AA37BED8 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 07:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jontow@voodoo.minix.cx) Received: (qmail 18181 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 14:29:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO voodoo.minix.cx) (postfix@216.73.11.10) by eagle.slic.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 14:29:28 -0000 Received: by voodoo.minix.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 15EE92685; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:17:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:17:52 -0500 From: Jonathan Towne To: Bush Doctor Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MINIX utilities Message-ID: <20000414091751.A437@minix.cx> Mail-Followup-To: Bush Doctor , freebsd-small@freebsd.org References: <20000414101015.A45686@goku.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000414101015.A45686@goku.cl.msu.edu>; from dervish@goku.cl.msu.edu on Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 10:10:15AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 10:10:15AM -0400, Bush Doctor scribbled: Well, at one point, I had ported the minix cron daemon.. though rather incomplete, it would be a useful thing to have under picobsd, for things like webcams, diagnostics, etc. However, since then it has been removed from my FTP server, and afaik, nobody ever seemed to have downloaded it.. so is it worth another shot? (only took about 5 minutes, and another 15 to learn howto make a good patch :) - Jonathan Towne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 14 12:29:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from buzz.slic.com (eagle.slic.com [216.73.13.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1855237B6DF for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:29:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jontow@voodoo.minix.cx) Received: (qmail 21963 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 19:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO voodoo.minix.cx) (postfix@216.73.11.10) by eagle.slic.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 19:38:39 -0000 Received: by voodoo.minix.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1E70A2685; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:26:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:26:54 -0500 From: Jonathan Towne To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Minix utilities.. ported.. Message-ID: <20000414142654.A815@minix.cx> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, I took the liberty this morning to port /usr/src/commands/simple/* (excluding networking, low-level filesystem and other such minix-specific stuff) from my minix 2.0.0 machine.. not all is tested, and, all of this is a blatant hack, if anyone is interested in this collection, i'll put it up on a public ftp somewhere.. Quite a few of these need to be cleaned, fleshed, hacked up, etc, and, I make absolutely *NO* guarantee that they'll even run.. a few coredump, some corrupt tty output temporarily, etc, "buyer beware" :) In other words, I've done the tedious work, and whoever wants it can finish it up :) - Jonathan Towne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message