From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jan 7 12:54:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from stox.sa.enteract.com (stox.sa.enteract.com [207.229.132.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE28E37B402 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:54:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stox@localhost) by stox.sa.enteract.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f07KsO800834; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:54:24 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from stox) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <001701c078e0$2dd587f0$aa240018@cx443070b> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:54:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" To: Jeremiah Gowdy Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First of all, I have changed the CC: to -advocacy, this does NOT belong in -hackers. My apologies to all for not doing so at the beginning. On 07-Jan-01 Jeremiah Gowdy wrote: > What do you think the average person would interpret "free software" as ? > Software that's not opressed, or software that has no cost ? Give me a > break. I live in a "free" country ( Please, let us not get into a political debate about this statement ). Does that mean it is without cost ? I don't think so, living in a "free" country has enormous cost, the least of which involves the IRS. > If I may repeat what you just said again: > >> If I must perform other actions as a result of my modifications, it is not >> "free." I am being compelled to perform. This is not "free." > a.. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, > this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > > b.. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the > documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. > > Those sure seem to be compulsions. They are small and simple, but they are > compulsions. So even BSD licenced software is not truly "free software" by > your foolish definitions. Yes, I guess I am a fool for actually being capable of using a dictionary. From the numerous mispellings in your postings, it does seem that you are incapable of doing so. My "foolish" definitions are the same used by Richard Stallman and Eric S. Raymond. Your definition is consistent with the the one used by MSN, $400 free when you agree to spend $24.95/month for three years. I can't help it if your understanding of the language is defined by Madison Avenue. > > X11 > > and this permission notice appear in all copies of > the Software and that both the above copyright notice(s) and this > permission notice appear in supporting documentation > > X11 has the same restrictions. Although including the licence in future > copies is no big thing, it's still a restriction, and by your own words: "If > I must perform other actions as a result of my modifications, it is not > 'free'". > > Now lets hear you rephrase your words to try to become less ambigous about > the definition of "free" and how it interacts with the restrictions of the > BSD and/or X11 licences. Maybe you can tell us how they are "more free". > That's always fun, to listen to people rant about levels of "freeness". Arguably, these clauses have become anachronisms, since they were created prior to the United States joining the Bern Convention. They are restrictions, but they preserve the freedoms of the authors and prevent others from siezing rights to the code. These clauses do not limit the user's freedom in using a distributing the code/binaries, they just insure that the originating authors do not lose freedom at the same time. Prior to joing the Bern convention, if this clauses were not asserted, someone could make minor changes to the code and claim it as their own. Back to definitions again: 1. Exempt from subjection to the will of others; not under restraint, control, or compulsion; able to follow one's own impulses, desires, or inclinations; determining one's own course of action; not dependent; at liberty. "Free" does not allow you to impose your restraint, control, or compulsion on others. This is a delicate balancing act that is the key thesis of what is really "free." It is this balancing act that most forget in debates over the meaning of "free," without this balance you have anarchy. Without this balance I would be free to kill, steal, and rape. Obviously, in a "free" society, I am not "free" to commit these acts. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jan 7 15:39:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from irev.net (cx858027-b.escnd1.sdca.home.com [24.5.180.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D4337B402 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:39:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cx443070b (cx443070-b.vista1.sdca.home.com [24.0.36.170]) by irev.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f07NdJT76089; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:39:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from data@irev.net) Message-ID: <000b01c07903$6141f830$aa240018@cx443070b> From: "Jeremiah Gowdy" To: "Kenneth P. Stox" Cc: References: Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:41:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Those sure seem to be compulsions. They are small and simple, but they are > > compulsions. So even BSD licenced software is not truly "free software" by > > your foolish definitions. > > Yes, I guess I am a fool for actually being capable of using a dictionary. From > the numerous mispellings in your postings, it does seem that you are incapable > of doing so. My "foolish" definitions are the same used by Richard Stallman and > Eric S. Raymond. Your definition is consistent with the the one used by MSN, > $400 free when you agree to spend $24.95/month for three years. I can't help it > if your understanding of the language is defined by Madison Avenue. Failing to respond to the fact that your definition of "free software" does not apply to BSD licenced software, I must assume you are conceeding that point, and therefore acknowledging the fact that "free software" is far too ambiguous to use in a comparison of software available in Windows or FreeBSD. Do you even know what this is about ? This is about someone stating that "there is not as much free software for Windows as there is for FreeBSD or Linux." Even if WE all understood and agreed to this definition as a community, which I'm not really prepared to do so but for the sake of argument, this is still a TERRIBLY ambiguous statement to be passing out to people who are not part of the FreeBSD/Linux/GNU community. From a Windows user point of view, there is PLENTY of free software available for Windows, so your statement is going to come across to that person as foolish or deceiving. Since the idea of this paper IS advocacy, being deceptive or making people think you are lying, even if from your point of view you're not, is not a proper way to approach people. Don't you think it would be better to say something along the lines of what you've been saying about the "freeness" of BSD and/or GPL software over freeware and shareware ? Wouldn't that be less ambiguous and more constructive ? If we get back to the subject at hand, rather than simply a stupid debate about the definition of terms, I think we can come to an agreement. As for the spelling, I ran a spell checker this time so you wouldn't have to degrade yourself to making personal attacks based on spelling mistakes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jan 7 17:25:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from stox.sa.enteract.com (stox.sa.enteract.com [207.229.132.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A3D37B400 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:24:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stox@localhost) by stox.sa.enteract.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f081OoP01227; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:24:50 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from stox) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <000b01c07903$6141f830$aa240018@cx443070b> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:24:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" To: Jeremiah Gowdy Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 07-Jan-01 Jeremiah Gowdy wrote: >> > Those sure seem to be compulsions. They are small and simple, but they > are >> > compulsions. So even BSD licenced software is not truly "free software" > by >> > your foolish definitions. >> >> Yes, I guess I am a fool for actually being capable of using a dictionary. > From >> the numerous mispellings in your postings, it does seem that you are ^^^^^^^^^^^ Boy is my face red. s/mispellings/misspellings/. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black. Oh, the shame! I'll stand in the corner with the pointy hat on now. :-( > incapable >> of doing so. My "foolish" definitions are the same used by Richard > Stallman and >> Eric S. Raymond. Your definition is consistent with the the one used by > MSN, >> $400 free when you agree to spend $24.95/month for three years. I can't > help it >> if your understanding of the language is defined by Madison Avenue. > > Failing to respond to the fact that your definition of "free software" does Apparently, you didn't bother the read the entire message, I will quote the response yet again: Arguably, these clauses have become anachronisms, since they were created prior to the United States joining the Bern Convention. They are restrictions, but they preserve the freedoms of the authors and prevent others from seizing rights to the code. These clauses do not limit the user's freedom in using a distributing the code/binaries, they just insure that the originating authors do not lose freedom at the same time. Prior to joining the Bern convention, if this clauses were not asserted, someone could make minor changes to the code and claim it as their own. Back to definitions again: 1. Exempt from subjection to the will of others; not under restraint, control, or compulsion; able to follow one's own impulses, desires, or inclinations; determining one's own course of action; not dependent; at liberty. "Free" does not allow you to impose your restraint, control, or compulsion on others. This is a delicate balancing act that is the key thesis of what is really "free." It is this balancing act that most forget in debates over the meaning of "free," without this balance you have anarchy. Without this balance I would be free to kill, steal, and rape. Obviously, in a "free" society, I am not "free" to commit these acts. > not apply to BSD licenced software, I must assume you are conceeding that > point, and therefore acknowledging the fact that "free software" is far too > ambiguous to use in a comparison of software available in Windows or > FreeBSD. Do you even know what this is about ? This is about someone > stating that "there is not as much free software for Windows as there is for > FreeBSD or Linux." Even if WE all understood and agreed to this definition > as a community, which I'm not really prepared to do so but for the sake of > argument, this is still a TERRIBLY ambiguous statement to be passing out to > people who are not part of the FreeBSD/Linux/GNU community. From a Windows > user point of view, there is PLENTY of free software available for Windows, > so your statement is going to come across to that person as foolish or > deceiving. Since the idea of this paper IS advocacy, being deceptive or > making people think you are lying, even if from your point of view you're > not, is not a proper way to approach people. Don't you think it would be > better to say something along the lines of what you've been saying about the > "freeness" of BSD and/or GPL software over freeware and shareware ? > Wouldn't that be less ambiguous and more constructive ? If we get back to > the subject at hand, rather than simply a stupid debate about the definition > of terms, I think we can come to an agreement. Now we're getting somewhere. A clear set of statements without insults. I hope we can now proceed on to some positive results. As I stated previously, "free" software, by part of your definition ( binary programs that may be loaded at no apparent cost ), is rarely without cost. An exchange of currency may not be involved, but exchange of something of value frequently is. It is this very point that I think we should focus on educating the community. I suspect that this will be a growing issue, in the awareness of the public, in the not too distant future. The public thought that Real Networks Jukebox was "free." We later found it was sending information back to Real Networks. Internet Explorer is "free," until all competition is vanquished, then I suspect that will change real quick. In the Windows community, many programs have started "free" only to later taken commercial. These were not "free," they were a form of lose leader to build market share. I won't even go into the issues of malicious and/or virus infected binaries. How much has that cost the community? Yes, there is "free" software available for the Windows platform, but I would conject that there is far less than you assume. So, what this all really boils down to is an issue of public education. The issue is about the definition of terms and to educate the public what they really mean. In most cases, the public is being deceived by the use of the word "free," and we all need to do something about it. > As for the spelling, I ran a spell checker this time so you wouldn't have to > degrade yourself to making personal attacks based on spelling mistakes. Well, thank you, but if I was afraid of making an idiot of myself, I would never post to these mailing lists. ;-> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jan 8 12:21:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9EFB37B71E for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAAF8A; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:21:28 -0800 Message-ID: <3A5A118F.2E06FCDD@acuson.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 11:14:23 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kenneth P. Stox" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Kenneth P. Stox" wrote: > > What do you think the average person would interpret "free software" as ? > > Software that's not opressed, or software that has no cost ? Give me a > > break. > > I live in a "free" country ( Please, let us not get into a political debate > about this statement ). Does that mean it is without cost ? I don't think so, > living in a "free" country has enormous cost, the least of which involves the > IRS. Let's see, "free " has always meants "without cost. Examples include "free doughnuts", "free gravel", and the ubiquitous "free beer". Software is not really an object, but it is ludicrous to think that software could be oppressed. Only people can be oppressed. Likewise, saying that Free Software is software with the political/natural/moral right to vote, assemble, speak, worship, own firearms, not having to quarter soldiers, etc, is beyond ludicrous, it's asinine. When people hear the words "free software", if they haven't read Stallman's little red book, they will naturally assume it means "free of cost". And they would be correct, if incomplete. > > Those sure seem to be compulsions. They are small and simple, but they are > > compulsions. So even BSD licenced software is not truly "free software" by > > your foolish definitions. > > Yes, I guess I am a fool for actually being capable of using a dictionary. From > the numerous mispellings in your postings, it does seem that you are incapable > of doing so. My "foolish" definitions are the same used by Richard Stallman and > Eric S. Raymond. Your definition is consistent with the the one used by MSN, > $400 free when you agree to spend $24.95/month for three years. I can't help it > if your understanding of the language is defined by Madison Avenue. As for myself, I can only go off of the dictionary definitions. My dictionary has over a dozen definitions of "free".They range from "free electron" to "free end of a rope". None of these definitions fit the MSN term whatsoever. A couple do fit the ESR/RMS definitions, but "free as in 'free speech'" is not one of them. If I restrict someone's right to free speech I will go to jail. But not even the most ardent of Free Software supporters advocates arresting the authors of proprietary software. When one looks at the "natural" or "unalienable" rights commonly viewed as the innate rights of human beings, they all have one thing in common. They all reside in the personal domain of a single human being. A clear example is freedom of the press. The press (being a publisher) has the right to issue a publication. But the publishers does not have the right to compel people to read his works, nor do people have the right to compel publishers to publish. Those acts leave the domain of the personal, and are no longer rights. To place "free software" in the same category as "free speech" does not work. The right to publish your own original software under a Free license is certainly in accord with freedom of the press, but a natural right to modify and redistribute someone else's software leaves the bounds of the personal. You can only get that privilege by compelling another person to act. So Free Software is not a right, though it may be an attribute. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 3:31:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ducky.nz.freebsd.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC30437B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 03:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ducky.nz.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24507 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:31:11 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <200101091131.AAA24507@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary / FreshPorts To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:31:10 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? Reply-To: dan@langille.org X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement: "There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source." That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that it be open source? thanks. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/ FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/ NZ Broadband - http://unixathome.org/broadband/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 3:45:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailbox.univie.ac.at (mailbox.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8856D37B402 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 03:45:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pcle2.cc.univie.ac.at (pcle2.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.2.177]) by mailbox.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA34076; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:45:25 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:45:53 +0100 (CET) From: Lukas Ertl X-X-Sender: To: Dan Langille Cc: Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? In-Reply-To: <200101091131.AAA24507@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Dan Langille wrote: > I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement: > > "There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source." The person who said that should give some examples. To me this seems just another piece of FUD. Maybe he thinks about kind of embedded devices, but then the company still has to make the sources available since they are under GPL. > That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that it be > open source? If it's Linux, it's GPL. If it's GPL, it *must* be open source. lg, le --=20 Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at WWW-Redaktion Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Zentraler Informatikdienst (ZID) Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 der Universit=E4t Wien To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 3:53:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.98.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D6B37B401 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 03:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f09BrFs99442; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:53:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:53:15 +0100 (CET) From: Konrad Heuer To: Dan Langille Cc: Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? In-Reply-To: <200101091131.AAA24507@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Dan Langille wrote: > I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement: > > "There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source." > > That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that it be > open source? The Linux kernel is under GPL and thus open source, I agree. On the other hand Linux - in strict sense - is nothing more than the kernel. Thus one can build a Linux distribution containing the kernel and a lot of additional open source tools (like the GNU tools) which will be open source completely. But I can imagine a Linux distribution where anything except the kernel isn't open source. For example, as far as I know, you won't be able the get source code of yast or yast2, the SuSE Linux administration tool. And what's about Corel Linux? Will they put all their special work to open source? I don' believe so. What I know is that Debian Linux is the only one which is open source completely. Regards Konrad Heuer Personal Bookmarks: Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen http://www.freebsd.org Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen http://www.daemonnews.o= rg Deutschland (Germany) kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 10: 8:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4724C37B6DE for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA2307; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:11:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3A5B52C5.BB90E782@acuson.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:04:53 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Konrad Heuer Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Konrad Heuer wrote: > For example, as far as I know, you > won't be able the get source code of yast or yast2, the SuSE Linux > administration tool. And what's about Corel Linux? Will they put all their > special work to open source? I don' believe so. What I know is that Debian > Linux is the only one which is open source completely. Not really. If you don't count third-party end user applications as part of the operating system (I sure don't), then most Linux distros are 100% open source. I'm most familiar with Slackware, and it certainly is. The only thing in it that isn't open source is Netscape and xv (and OpenMotif which is in contribs). Funny thing, Debian also has those. They may separate them out into a "non-free" directory, but they still get shipped on the CDs. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 11:22:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ducky.nz.freebsd.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF14137B404 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ducky.nz.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26214 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:22:35 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <200101091922.IAA26214@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary / FreshPorts To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:22:34 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? Reply-To: dan@langille.org References: <200101091131.AAA24507@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 9 Jan 2001, at 12:53, Konrad Heuer wrote: > The Linux kernel is under GPL and thus open source, I agree. On the other > hand Linux - in strict sense - is nothing more than the kernel. [snip] Thanks. And the same person tells me this: ### One day FreeBSD may want to incorporate some cool Linux stuff into its kernel that would require a *lot* of work to write without infringing upon GPLed code. That's when the really tough decisions will arise. ### That's just FUD to me. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/ FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/ NZ Broadband - http://unixathome.org/broadband/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 14:41: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C5937B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA465016; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:40:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200101091131.AAA24507@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> References: <200101091131.AAA24507@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:40:36 -0500 To: dan@langille.org, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:31 AM +1300 1/10/01, Dan Langille wrote: >I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement: > >"There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source." > >That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that >it be open source? There are linux distros which include individual applications, where some of those applications will not be open-source. I do not see that as being overly important. Anything that has a GNU-license (such as the linux kernel itself) will have to be open-source. Not quite sure why we'd debate this on freebsd-advocacy, though. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 16:10:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (mail.dobox.com [208.187.122.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C38D37B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14G8wM-00008P-00; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 17:16:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3A5BA9E2.34D6D857@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 17:16:34 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lukas Ertl Cc: Dan Langille , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Lukas Ertl wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Dan Langille wrote: > > > I'm involved in a thread on nz.comp and someone made this statement: > > > > "There are commercial forms of Linux that are not open source." > > The person who said that should give some examples. To me this seems just > another piece of FUD. Maybe he thinks about kind of embedded devices, but > then the company still has to make the sources available since they are > under GPL. Except except except. Call Rio and ask them for the source to their Kerbango netradio application. Call any embedded Linux device vendor and ask them for the code to their device, even the parts that they're supposed to provide under GPL. See what a warm and loving reception you get. > > That's a conflict of terms isn't it? Doesn't the GPL require that it be > > open source? > > If it's Linux, it's GPL. If it's GPL, it *must* be open source. Let's correct that: If it's GPL, it's *illegal* unless it is open source. People (and companies) break the law all the time, and usually get away with it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 16:47: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4480737B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAAEC8; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:50:54 -0800 Message-ID: <3A5BB045.40F9856@acuson.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:43:49 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? References: <3A5BA9E2.34D6D857@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > If it's Linux, it's GPL. If it's GPL, it *must* be open source. > > Let's correct that: > > If it's GPL, it's *illegal* unless it is open source. > > People (and companies) break the law all the time, and usually get away > with it. The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls. I also recall that Linus allows closed source loadable modules. In practice it is very similar to the LGPL. A lot of the closed source Linux stuff operates on this exception instead of outright violating the license. I don't know how Rio does things, but it shouldn't be too hard to use Linux in an embedded environment without having to actually modify the kernel. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 17:37: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (mail.dobox.com [208.187.122.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C52B37B401 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:36:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14GAIN-00009n-00; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:43:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3A5BBE3A.C126AB27@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:43:23 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Johnson Cc: "Kenneth P. Stox" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ONTOPIC - FreeBSD vs Linux, Solaris, and NT - Not a bunch of References: <3A5A118F.2E06FCDD@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Johnson wrote: > > "Kenneth P. Stox" wrote: > > > > What do you think the average person would interpret "free software" as ? > > > Software that's not opressed, or software that has no cost ? Give me a > > > break. > > > > I live in a "free" country ( Please, let us not get into a political debate > > about this statement ). Does that mean it is without cost ? I don't think so, > > living in a "free" country has enormous cost, the least of which involves the > > IRS. > > Let's see, "free " has always meants "without cost. Always? Let :== "man". This dicussion has gone beyond ludicrous, and it's time to end it on -advocacy too. All of you just SHUT THE HELL UP! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 18:59: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from home.babug.org (home.babug.org [209.11.4.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B149037B401 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:58:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by home.babug.org (Postfix, from userid 0) id 3892E43D13; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:04:55 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: BABUG Jan 11th Meeting Message-Id: <20010110030455.3892E43D13@home.babug.org> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:04:55 -0800 (PST) From: root@babug.org (Charlie Root) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -- South Bay BAFUG/BABUG -- (Bay Area Free/BSD Users Group) Auguest 2000 Meeting The South Bay, Bay Area Free/BSD Users Group (BAFUG/BABUG) will be holding its monthly meeting at the Whistle coporation office in Foster City on Thursday, Jan 11th. (sorry for the late announcement) Food And Socializing will be from 7:30 - 8:00 PM The meeting will start propmptly at 8:00 PM. After the meeting general talk and socializing will continue until 11:00PM Agenda : ==> Our Topic - DNS and Bind - An overview an intro to Bind9 A walk through on DNS setup, configuration, and maintanance with an introduction to Bind9. Presented by the BABUG staff ==> Pizza and Soda is provided compliments of Whistle Comunications! Location : This months meeting will be held at Whistle Communications. Whistle is located at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City. There is plenty parking in their lot. Please see the REAR door marked with the BAFUG sign. Times : Food And Socializing will be from 7:30 - 8:00 PM The meeting will start propmptly at 8:00 PM. After the meeting general talk and socializing will continue until 11:00PM Basic Directions : By CalTrain : Exit at the downtown San Mateo station, and walk several miles east on Third Avenue to the Marsh Drive intersection. Alternatively, exit at the Bay Meadows station and take the SanTrans Route 251 Hillsdale - Foster City bus to the Bridgepoint Shopping Center stop and walk 1/4 mile north on Mariner's Island Blvd. to Third Avenue, turning right one block to Marsh Drive. By SamTrans : The Route 251 Hillsdale - Foster City bus line's Bridgepoint Shopping Center terminus is a few blocks from Whistle Communications. By Car : From the South Bay and Peninsula : Take 101 North towards San Francisco, From US-101 northbound, take CA-92 eastbound a mile to the Foster City Blvd., turning left (east) at the end of the ramp onto Metro Center Blvd. Go about a block and turn left (north-east) onto Foster City Blvd. Go about five blocks to the street's end, turning left (north) onto Third Avenue. Go about a block to turn left (west) at the first traffic light, onto Marsh Drive. Immediately turn left into the Whistle parking lot. From the East Bay : From CA-92/Hayward, cross the San Mateo Bridge and take the first exit Foster City Blvd., curving right at the end of the ramp to a left (north-east) turn onto Foster City Blvd. Then process as described above for US-101 northbound. From the North Bay and San Francisco : From US-101 southbound, exit eastbound onto Third Avenue proceeding several miles, past the Mariner's Island Blvd. intersection, to turn right (west) onto Marsh Drive. Immediately turn left into the Whistle parking lot. WWW info : More info can be found at the following URLs Whistle Communications - http://www.whistle.com BAFUG - http://www.bafug.org Contacts : Nicole Harrington Josef Grosch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 22:12:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B092537B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14GEaS-0000Aq-00; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:18:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3A5BFEAC.9020F8AC@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:18:20 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dan@langille.org Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? References: <200101091131.AAA24507@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> <200101091922.IAA26214@ducky.nz.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille wrote: > > On 9 Jan 2001, at 12:53, Konrad Heuer wrote: > > > The Linux kernel is under GPL and thus open source, I agree. On the other > > hand Linux - in strict sense - is nothing more than the kernel. > > [snip] > > Thanks. And the same person tells me this: > > ### > One day FreeBSD may want to incorporate some cool Linux stuff into its > kernel that would require a *lot* of work to write without infringing upon > GPLed code. That's when the really tough decisions will arise. > ### > > That's just FUD to me. Of course none of the code in the FreeBSD kernel we have now required any hard work, it was all just a walk in the park compared to working on that really difficult GPLed code. I guess there are some advantages to our more controlled development environ- ment, eh? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jan 9 22:44:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DE037B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14GF5s-0000Bz-00; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:50:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3A5C0648.603AB543@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:50:48 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Johnson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? References: <3A5BA9E2.34D6D857@softweyr.com> <3A5BB045.40F9856@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Johnson wrote: > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > If it's GPL, it's *illegal* unless it is open source. > > > > People (and companies) break the law all the time, and usually get away > > with it. > > The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls. Where? In what license? > I also recall that Linus allows closed source loadable modules. In Linus does, but does the license? Linus opinions are not the contract which allows you to distribute the code; the GPL *is*. > practice it is very similar to the LGPL. A lot of the closed source > Linux stuff operates on this exception instead of outright violating the > license. I don't know how Rio does things, but it shouldn't be too hard > to use Linux in an embedded environment without having to actually > modify the kernel. Actually, the kernel usually has to be heavily modified to support the limited run-time environment, but this work is usually released to anyone who wants it, since it's useless without the specific hardware. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 1: 4:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@hub.freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E1237B401; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jkoshy@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f0A946A21527; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:04:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkoshy) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:04:06 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200101100904.f0A946A21527@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.org, jkoshy@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org, itojun@iijlab.net Subject: Slides for FreeBSD/IPv6 presentation available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, I have put up some slides that I presented at the recent "Global IPv6 Summit" in Bangalore, under http://people.freebsd.org/~jkoshy/articles/ipv6-presentation/ The topic of my talk was `IPv6 in FreeBSD'. The talk started off with an introduction to FreeBSD, went into the details of IPv6 support in FreeBSD, and ended with a demonstration of IPv6 in action. The web page referenced above also has some notes about what went well during the talk. This may be of use to people interested in advocacy. The presentation is being made available in LaTeX and PDF forms. Thanks to for pointing me to KAME related information. Regards, Koshy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 8:55:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D9637B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:54:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14GOcE-0000JR-00 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:00:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3A5C9542.25ABE6A0@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:00:50 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: [Fwd: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What help do we have to offer Mr. Santiago? Is there a web page or a handbook section on "how to start a user group?" > Franchi Santiago wrote: > > Hi, > I would like to form a BSD Users Group in Rosario, Argentina. > What can I do? > thanks > Santiago > > ---------- > De: root@FreeBSD.ORG[SMTP:root@FreeBSD.ORG] > Responder a: Wes Peters > Enviado el: Miércoles 10 de Enero de 2001 10:46 > Para: freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG > Asunto: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group > > I am happy to announce the formation of a BSD Users Group in northern Utah. > We will meet in conjunction with the Salt Lake Linux Users Group, SLLUG, > to converse on topics of mutual interest. > > Our next meeting will be Wednesday, January 17, 2001, at the Engineering > Mines Classroom Building on the University of Utah campus. The topic for > the general meeting is Virtual Private Networks, particularly approprite > for BSD systems. > > This months announcements will cover: > > o DaemonNews print edition announcement > o OpenBSD 2.8 release > o FreeBSD 4.2 release > o BSD/OS 4.2 release > o NetBSD 1.5 release > o MacOS X Public Beta release > o FreeBSD ports system passes 4,500 mark > > Kevin Rose from BSDi will be on hand giving away FreeBSD 4.1 CD-ROM sets. > Joe Warner may have some DaemonNews print copies on hand as well. We will > try to have a few great BSD giveaways at every meeting. > > More information can be found on the SLLUG-BUG web page: > > http://www.bsdconspiracy.net/sllug-bug/ > > Follow the link to the next meeting page for directions and a map to EMCB > at the UofU. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 9:32:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailbox.univie.ac.at (mailbox.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F9237B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from le.adsl.cc.univie.ac.at (le.adsl.cc.univie.ac.at [193.171.3.9]) by mailbox.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA100832 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:32:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:32:27 +0100 (CET) From: Lukas Ertl X-X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group] In-Reply-To: <3A5C9542.25ABE6A0@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Wes Peters wrote: > What help do we have to offer Mr. Santiago? Is there a web page or a > handbook section on "how to start a user group?" > > > Franchi Santiago wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I would like to form a BSD Users Group in Rosario, Argentina. > > What can I do? > > thanks > > Santiago Well, it would be very helpful for Mr. Santiago if he knew at least one other person interested in BSD and forming a BUG, so they can get together and pretend they are "a group" :-) Seriously, he should set up a webpage containing information on the group and BSD in general, offering help to new users, maybe including a "forum"... Another good thing would be setting up a mailing list, and even an IRC channel can be useful. Of course, he should think about a meeting of the group, but probably there have to be members first. lg, le --=20 Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at WWW-Redaktion Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Zentraler Informatikdienst (ZID) Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 der Universit=E4t Wien To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 9:38:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCBF137B404 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:37:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14GPIM-0000LD-00 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:44:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3A5C9F76.15F8BEC1@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:44:22 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group] References: <3A5C9542.25ABE6A0@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > What help do we have to offer Mr. Santiago? Is there a web page or a > handbook section on "how to start a user group?" Uh, oops, I lost his email address off the forwarded message. It is: Franchi Santiago > > Franchi Santiago wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I would like to form a BSD Users Group in Rosario, Argentina. > > What can I do? > > thanks > > Santiago > > > > ---------- > > De: root@FreeBSD.ORG[SMTP:root@FreeBSD.ORG] > > Responder a: Wes Peters > > Enviado el: Miércoles 10 de Enero de 2001 10:46 > > Para: freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG > > Asunto: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group > > > > I am happy to announce the formation of a BSD Users Group in northern Utah. > > We will meet in conjunction with the Salt Lake Linux Users Group, SLLUG, > > to converse on topics of mutual interest. > > > > Our next meeting will be Wednesday, January 17, 2001, at the Engineering > > Mines Classroom Building on the University of Utah campus. The topic for > > the general meeting is Virtual Private Networks, particularly approprite > > for BSD systems. > > > > This months announcements will cover: > > > > o DaemonNews print edition announcement > > o OpenBSD 2.8 release > > o FreeBSD 4.2 release > > o BSD/OS 4.2 release > > o NetBSD 1.5 release > > o MacOS X Public Beta release > > o FreeBSD ports system passes 4,500 mark > > > > Kevin Rose from BSDi will be on hand giving away FreeBSD 4.1 CD-ROM sets. > > Joe Warner may have some DaemonNews print copies on hand as well. We will > > try to have a few great BSD giveaways at every meeting. > > > > More information can be found on the SLLUG-BUG web page: > > > > http://www.bsdconspiracy.net/sllug-bug/ > > > > Follow the link to the next meeting page for directions and a map to EMCB > > at the UofU. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 9:58:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from test.kens.com (kens.com [129.250.30.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6422337B402 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 63819 invoked by uid 1002); 10 Jan 2001 17:57:57 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:57:57 -0500 From: "Robin S. Socha" To: SFRANCHI@pecom.com.ar Cc: Subject: Re: [Fwd: Salt Lake City BSD Users Group] Message-ID: <20010110125757.D56518@kens.com> References: <3A5C9542.25ABE6A0@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.13i In-Reply-To: ; from l.ertl@univie.ac.at on Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 06:32:27PM +0100 X-Mailer: Mutt http://www.mutt.org/ X-URL: https://socha.net/ X-Editor: Vim-600 http://www.vim.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Lukas Ertl [010110 12:32]: > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Wes Peters wrote: > > > What help do we have to offer Mr. Santiago? Is there a web page or a > > handbook section on "how to start a user group?" > > > > > Franchi Santiago wrote: > > > I would like to form a BSD Users Group in Rosario, Argentina. > > > What can I do? I would suggest taking a look at the Linux User Group HOWTO. The same principles apply. http://lhd.zdnet.com/LDP/HOWTO/User-Group-HOWTO.html e.g. > Another good thing would be setting up a mailing list, and even an IRC > channel can be useful. Mailing lists are extremely useful. IRC sucks extremely much (cf. also http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/preface.html#IRC). > Of course, he should think about a meeting of the group, but probably > there have to be members first. Ummm... Yup. BTW: localhost.localdomain? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 10:21:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA0B37B69F for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA6E4B; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:25:33 -0800 Message-ID: <3A5CA771.27DCFB7D@acuson.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:18:25 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? References: <3A5BA9E2.34D6D857@softweyr.com> <3A5BB045.40F9856@acuson.com> <3A5C0648.603AB543@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls. > > Where? In what license? It's in the source code tree. From the COPYING file: NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work". Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it. Linus Torvalds David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jan 10 23:35:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from home.babug.org (home.babug.org [209.11.4.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 800E037B698 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by home.babug.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8B6B743D16; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:41:26 -0800 (PST) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: New-Entrance + Heads Up -BABUG Jan 11th Meeting Message-Id: <20010111074126.8B6B743D16@home.babug.org> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:41:26 -0800 (PST) From: nicole@babug.org (Nicole) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -- South Bay BAFUG/BABUG -- (Bay Area Free/BSD Users Group) January 2000 Meeting (really) Heads Up Request + Please see new entrance Location at bottom of email!! The South Bay, Bay Area Free/BSD Users Group (BAFUG/BABUG) will be holding its monthly meeting at the Whistle coporation office in Foster City on Thursday, Jan 11th. (sorry for the late announcement) Food And Socializing will be from 7:30 - 8:00 PM The meeting will start propmptly at 8:00 PM. After the meeting general talk and socializing will continue until 11:00PM Agenda : ==> Our Topic - DNS and Bind - An overview of Bind and an intro to Bind9 A walk through on DNS setup, configuration, and maintanance with an introduction to Bind9. Presented by the BABUG staff ==> Pizza and Soda is provided compliments of Whistle Comunications! Location : This months meeting will be held at Whistle Communications. Whistle is located at 110 Marsh Dr. in Foster City. There is plenty parking in their lot. Please see the REAR door marked with the BAFUG sign. Times : Food And Socializing will be from 7:30 - 8:00 PM The meeting will start propmptly at 8:00 PM. After the meeting general talk and socializing will continue until 11:00PM Basic Directions : By CalTrain : Exit at the downtown San Mateo station, and walk several miles east on Third Avenue to the Marsh Drive intersection. Alternatively, exit at the Bay Meadows station and take the SanTrans Route 251 Hillsdale - Foster City bus to the Bridgepoint Shopping Center stop and walk 1/4 mile north on Mariner's Island Blvd. to Third Avenue, turning right one block to Marsh Drive. By SamTrans : The Route 251 Hillsdale - Foster City bus line's Bridgepoint Shopping Center terminus is a few blocks from Whistle Communications. By Car : From the South Bay and Peninsula : Take 101 North towards San Francisco, From US-101 northbound, take CA-92 eastbound a mile to the Foster City Blvd., turning left (east) at the end of the ramp onto Metro Center Blvd. Go about a block and turn left (north-east) onto Foster City Blvd. Go about five blocks to the street's end, turning left (north) onto Third Avenue. Go about a block to turn left (west) at the first traffic light, onto Marsh Drive. Immediately turn left into the Whistle parking lot. From the East Bay : From CA-92/Hayward, cross the San Mateo Bridge and take the first exit Foster City Blvd., curving right at the end of the ramp to a left (north-east) turn onto Foster City Blvd. Then process as described above for US-101 northbound. From the North Bay and San Francisco : From US-101 southbound, exit eastbound onto Third Avenue proceeding several miles, past the Mariner's Island Blvd. intersection, to turn right (west) onto Marsh Drive. Immediately turn left into the Whistle parking lot. WWW info : More info can be found at the following URLs Whistle Communications - http://www.whistle.com BAFUG - http://www.bafug.org Contacts : Nicole Harrington Josef Grosch ############## How To Get In ########################### Please note that when you come to the meeting, we will be using the same conference room as we did in November (for those who were present then), but we will be using a different door than one we have ever used for the meeting. The proper door is the one labelled "Side Door" in the below diagram. (The tradition of ASCII art for local meetings is alive and well!) To take optimal advantage of the door, please use the parking lot nearer Vintage Park Drive (vs. the one nearer Third Avenue): Front Door | | v ========---+---======== / \ _ / \ |\ / \ \_ to 3rd Ave. / \ / \ to Vintage / \ Park Dr. ---> / /==--+--==\ \ / / \ \ / / \ \ \ / to Marsh Dr. \ / "Engineering" \ / / \ /<---- Side Door Door -----> \/ / \/ L There are driveways (on Marsh Dr.) on either side of the building; please use the one that corresponds to the right-hand side of the diagram. If in doubt, please feel free to call my cell number (below). David Wolfskill - BABUG Paitron Saint Cell: 650/759-0823 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Jan 11 7: 1:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12CC37B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04089; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:56:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAxnaG3h; Thu Jan 11 07:56:43 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA15035; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:01:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200101111501.IAA15035@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? To: djohnson@acuson.com (David Johnson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:01:26 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters), freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3A5CA771.27DCFB7D@acuson.com> from "David Johnson" at Jan 10, 2001 10:18:25 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls. > > > > Where? In what license? > > It's in the source code tree. From the COPYING file: > > NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel > services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use > of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work". > Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software > Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux > kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it. > > Linus Torvalds Cool. You have the right to modify and distribute the kernel code, granted by the GPL, but there is no license in place granting you the right to utililize the kernel services, since the GPL doesn't entitle you to normal use of the kernel, according to this paragraph... }B^) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 12 9:13:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from taz.inu.net (taz.inu.net [63.151.3.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A7237B404 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:13:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from inu.net (taz.inu.net [63.151.3.239]) by taz.inu.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0CHCw402551 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:12:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from bob@inu.net) Message-ID: <3A5F3B1A.10BE2837@inu.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:12:58 -0600 From: Bob Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Uptimes. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This says a lot about BSD http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html -- Bob Martin, CTO InterNet Unlimited http://www.inu.net mailto:bob@inu.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 12 17:33:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r20.mx.aol.com (imo-r20.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECDD37B402 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com by imo-r20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id n.b0.eedb34b (3863) for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:33:06 -0500 (EST) From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:33:06 EST Subject: new documentaion To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 59 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I have been using freebsd for awhile now, and I have noticed that much of it's documentaion is quite dated, I believe documentaion is a key part of support, especially for a newbie. Also there are many topics not covered, I think this could all be changed. There are many of us on this list right now who have enough knowledge to write good, up to date tutorials. Anything that you think you know well about freebsd you could write a tutorial about. Before long I think we would have a nice, cuurect, collection of tutorials. I am going to be writing many tutorials in the next few weeks if anyone wants to help me out, or write some too, that would be awesome. Thanks alot guys, later To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 12 18:31:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE46937B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id n.aa.fa4f154 (3863) for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:31:12 -0500 (EST) From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:30:50 EST Subject: Re: new documentation To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 59 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Ok before we get started, I wanna gather up all the people that are interested in writing some tutorials, there is no big commitment just write some HOWTO's etc, whenever you have some time. To let me know you would like to participate just send me an E-mail saying so and include some info. For example the first person to say he would help out was Sebastian, and he just told me some basic info his job E-mail, name etc. All that info is optional, the only thing i would really like is the E-mail address you would like to discuss things with. A first name would also be great. Thanks alot, Arthur To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jan 12 20: 3:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9954537B401 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14HHyK-0000Bp-00; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:07:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3A5FD478.5D197BF5@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:07:20 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Johnson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: any Linux distros which are not Open Source? References: <3A5BA9E2.34D6D857@softweyr.com> <3A5BB045.40F9856@acuson.com> <3A5C0648.603AB543@softweyr.com> <3A5CA771.27DCFB7D@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Johnson wrote: > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > The Linux kernel has an exception written in to allow for system calls. > > > > Where? In what license? > > It's in the source code tree. From the COPYING file: > > NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel > services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use > of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work". > Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software > Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (the Linux > kernel) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it. > > Linus Torvalds Thank you for the clarification. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 1:32:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from anthony.dsl.xmission.com (anthony.dsl.xmission.com [166.70.15.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9413B37B400 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:32:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthony@localhost) by anthony.dsl.xmission.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA74395; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:36:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anthony) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:36:21 -0700 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new documentation Message-ID: <20010113023620.B72615@xmission.com> Mail-Followup-To: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 09:30:50PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 09:30:50PM -0500, GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com wrote: > Hello, > Ok before we get started, I wanna gather up all the people that are > interested in writing some tutorials, there is no big commitment just write > some HOWTO's etc, whenever you have some time. [snip] Might I suggest that the Linuxism "HOWTO" be avoided? Other naming conventions are much more appealing (e.g., tutorials, FAQs, documentation, etc.). A technicality maybe, but one that makes BSD a more respectable OS, IMHO. (BTW, I'd love to help, but my plate is quite full ATM.) -- anthony@xmission.com http://anthonychavez.cjb.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ``The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.'' -- Howard Phillips Lovecraft To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 2: 0:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from anthony.dsl.xmission.com (anthony.dsl.xmission.com [166.70.15.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E00837B400 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:00:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthony@localhost) by anthony.dsl.xmission.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA74515; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:04:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anthony) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:04:37 -0700 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: Bob Martin Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Uptimes. Message-ID: <20010113030437.E72615@xmission.com> References: <3A5F3B1A.10BE2837@inu.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A5F3B1A.10BE2837@inu.net>; from bob@inu.net on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 11:12:58AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 11:12:58AM -0600, Bob Martin wrote: > This says a lot about BSD > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html *sniff* That's so beautiful I could just... *sniffle* ...you'll have to excuse me, I... -- anthony@xmission.com http://anthonychavez.cjb.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Klingon is for wimps. http://move.to/ardalambion/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 3: 5:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0202E37B400 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 51344 invoked by uid 1003); 13 Jan 2001 11:05:24 -0000 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:05:24 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new documentation Message-ID: <20010113130524.A47937@mithrandr.moria.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 09:30:50PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386 X-URL: http://mithrandr.moria.org/nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri 2001-01-12 (21:30), GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com wrote: > Ok before we get started, I wanna gather up all the people that are > interested in writing some tutorials, there is no big commitment just write > some HOWTO's etc, whenever you have some time. > To let me know you would like to participate just send me an E-mail > saying so and include some info. For example the first person to say he would > help out was Sebastian, and he just told me some basic info his job E-mail, > name etc. All that info is optional, the only thing i would really like is > the E-mail address you would like to discuss things with. A first name would > also be great. We do have a FreeBSD Documentation Project that would be rather happy for new content. You can reach them at doc@FreeBSD.org. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 6:45:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E46037B401 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id n.4e.100ba435 (7381) for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:44:59 -0500 (EST) From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Message-ID: <4e.100ba435.2791c3ea@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:44:58 EST Subject: Re: new documentation To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 59 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey, Thanks for the feedback, when everything is done, we will be sure to submit them to everyone we can. Daemon News is an awesome site & magazine, and it will be way up at the top of the list i am sure. Arthur To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 6:55:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r19.mx.aol.com (imo-r19.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6B937B401 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:55:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com by imo-r19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id n.a.76fde9f (7381) for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:55:24 -0500 (EST) From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:55:24 EST Subject: Re: new documentaion To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 59 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey, I am sorry you feel that way, and I am sorry you had to read that post. I just wanted to let everyone know what i was doing, and see if anyone wanted to help out, if you do not think i am credible, then you can ignore my posts in the future. Also what is this about: > In our last debate on January 12, 2001 08:33 pm, GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com wrote: I do not know where you got the idea but I was never in a debate with you. All I am doing is trying to create some up to date documentation on freebsd, and see if anyone else was interested in helping out. This is the first post I have gotten from you, and i am in know way in a debate with you, nor do i wish to be in one. > Do you have any idea who the people are on the list(s) your posting to? I have no clue what you are trying to imply, but I figured anyone who did not like my posts would simply delete them and not reply, if it bothers you that much, I am sorry. Arthur To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jan 13 6:58:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F06837B400 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id n.31.f0f5ab6 (7381) for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:58:20 -0500 (EST) From: GLOBALLINK2001@aol.com Message-ID: <31.f0f5ab6.2791c70c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:58:20 EST Subject: Re: new documentation To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 59 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am well aware of the Linux HOWTO's and I want to make sure you know, we are in no way trying to create Linux like documentation. Arthur To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message