From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Nov 19 8:51:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail11.speakeasy.net (mail11.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB0437B419 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 10365 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 16:51:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail11.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Nov 2001 16:51:21 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200111171830.fAHIUBu80966@apollo.backplane.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:51:01 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: Need review - patch for socket locking and ref counting Cc: Peter Wemm , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 17-Nov-01 Matthew Dillon wrote: >:> I think the pool implementation should be left as it is and used ONLY >:> for interlocks and 'leaf' locks, as I originally designed it. Adding >:> multiple-pools (and the allocation / freeing / management headaches >:> that go along with that) will only create a mess. I don't think it's >:> even possible to use a pool of sx locks safely, for example, even with >:> the multiple pool concept. >: >:Errr, it's all of two extra functions and one extra parameter to the others. >:This should not be difficult. > > Difficulty isn't the problem. Confusion and Mess are the problems. I think it's less of a mess than you might think it is. mtx_pool_find(&sx_lock_pool, sx) is obviously more correct than mtx_pool_find(&foobar_lock_pool, sx). I don't think we need 100 pools. >:> The current pool code is nice because it simplifies our code base >:> somewhat rather then make it more complex. I see absolutely no need >:> for a multiple-pool mechanism at this time. >: >:Are you planning to turn on MTX_NOWITNESS then and then be forced not to use >:pool locks for anything besides sx and lockmgr backing locks since they won't >:have WITNESS checks performed for them? Different types of locks have >:different types of requirements. > > I'll turn on MTX_NOWITNESS. Then that makes them unusable for any leaf locks. Different locks have different needs. >:Err, the try_upgrade and downgrade are trivial and add nothing to the sx lock >:structure itself. They were also specifically requested for use in porting >:XFS >:to FreeBSD and are useful in other areas such as Brian's changes to make > > I don't think it's worth it just for XFS, They were specifically requested and I don't want to shoot the XFS effort in the head. I agree that they are of limited usefulness, however. >:vm_map's use sx locks instead of lockmgr locks. We can always optimize the >:locks later, it is more important right now to actually put locks in places >:so >:that actual multithreading can occur. > > I don't see it as being necessary for VM maps. Since interrupts are in > their own threads VM maps can probaly do away with much of the junk they > needed for -stable. If you could fix the locking for VM maps then to not require upgrade/downgrade, that would be greatly appreciated. :) Note that devfs also uses upgrade/downgrade atm as well via lockmgr locks that will become sx locks. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Nov 19 10:54:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5058B37B405; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id fAJIsBR28901; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:54:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:54:11 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200111191854.fAJIsBR28901@apollo.backplane.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: Peter Wemm , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need review - patch for socket locking and ref counting References: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> their own threads VM maps can probaly do away with much of the junk they :> needed for -stable. : :If you could fix the locking for VM maps then to not require upgrade/downgrade, :that would be greatly appreciated. :) Note that devfs also uses :upgrade/downgrade atm as well via lockmgr locks that will become sx locks. : :-- : :John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ :"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ I think they are fixable. I'm not going to get to them for a while though, I still have a huge amount of work on the descriptor path. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 7:52: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from spider10.spiderwebhost.net (spider10.spiderwebhost.net [64.95.69.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5369437B425 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from T23 (dhcp065-029-083-246.indy.rr.com [65.29.83.246]) by spider10.spiderwebhost.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17719 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:51:46 -0500 Message-Id: <200111211551.KAA17719@spider10.spiderwebhost.net> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:51:30 -0500 From: "Steven M. Seltzer" Subject: New Dental Practice Philosophy To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I would like to wish you a very Happy Thanksgiving! We recently created a one page practice philosophy statement that emphasizes = teamwork, caring, helping others, and developing your full potential by = assuming a more active role in the practice. =20 This philosophy is designed specifically for updating skills in the practice to = utilize technology tools that improve productivity and efficiency. If you would like to receive this philosophy statement with my compliments, = please reply to this e-mail with your name, address, and e-mail address where = you would like the philosophy sent. If you prefer not to receive future technology and practice management updates = like this one, please reply to this message and type, "remove" in the subject = line. Thank you. Best regards, Steve Seltzer www.hitecdentist.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 9:21:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4794937B421 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:21:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lcycsh@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id n.60.172e6d11 (4012) for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:21:33 -0500 (EST) From: Lcycsh@aol.com Message-ID: <60.172e6d11.292d3c9c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:21:32 EST Subject: (no subject) To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 113 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 16:40:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074E237B416 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA40236 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:39:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:39:18 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter, John (Baldwin) and I got to gether yesterday and thrashed out the mechanisms behind the KSE/thread scheduler. This allows us to go ahead and start coding again, now that we know what we are aiming at. Here is the basic mechanism. recap: "thread".. structure that is associated with a running context, running in the kernel.. has a stack, and storage for registers when blocked.. WHen a system call starts, the 'current' thread is used. WHen it blocks, a new one is created to return to the userland and collect more work. When the syscall finishes, the thread may be freed back rto a system wide pool of threads, unless it is the last one in the KSE, in which case it remains 'current' and in reserve for the next syscall. "KSE" (Kernel schedulable Entity). An entity that has cycles. It can spend them running one of the contexts in associated threads. It is to some extent a virtual CPU. "KSEGROUP" (KSEGRP). AN entity that represents a group of KSEs that, together share the same scheduling characteristics. There can only be at Maximum N KSEs in a KSEGRP, where N is the number of processors. KSEGRPs homd scheduling parameters and statistics. "Process" (proc). All resources and permissions are properties of the process. There can be 1 or more KSEGRPS per process. There can be 1 to N KSEs per KSEGRP. There can be 0 or more threads per KSEGRP at any time. Structures for scheduling: Threads aer owned by a KSEGRP. The KSEGRP has a list of all its runnable threads, sorted in priority order, The KSEGRP has a list of all its blocked threads. The KSEGRP has a list of KSEs. The first N runnable threads have a pointer to an assigned KSE. The assigned KSE is either on the run queue, or actuallly running that thread at that time. The KSE is on the run queue according to the priority of the thread which is currently assigned to it. (it has a back link to it too.) I have drawn up a set of pictures inllustrating the basic behaviour during thread scheduling.. they are at: http://www.freebsd.org/~julian/threads/ and are under the heading: "Pictures drawn in tgif of a KSE scheduling. -- Nov 21 2001-- " Basically: As threads become runnable they are hung on the runnable queue for their KSEGRP, and if there are no runnable or running KSEs one is put on the system run queue. If the new thread is among the N highest priority threads, then teh lowest priority thread with an assigned (but not yet running) KSE is unassigned, and it's KSE is repositionned in the system run queue in a place suitable for the new thread. It is then assigned to that thread. Pre-emption of a running thread (normal timesharing-wise) by another thread in the same KSEGRP, when the running thread on a KSE either completes or blocks. However the KSE itself can be pre-empted by a higher priority KSE from a different process. In other words a thread of higher priority than the running thread, from the same group, will not pre-empt that running thread, but will move to the head of the queue to be 'next'. The priority of the running thread that would have been pre-emted might be bumped..? There needs to be a way to stop the KSE assigned to the higher priority thread from pre-empting it's sibling, but rather, try run on another processor. (Is this needed? might something bad happen if it does pre-empt it?) (can you pre-empt a syscall in the kernel?) julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 16:45:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3AED37B418 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:45:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id D0F9681D0E; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:45:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:45:08 -0600 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Julian Elischer Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011121184508.T13393@elvis.mu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from julian@elischer.org on Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 04:39:18PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Julian Elischer [011121 18:40] wrote: > > > Peter, John (Baldwin) and I got to gether yesterday and thrashed > out the mechanisms behind the KSE/thread scheduler. > This allows us to go ahead and start coding again, now that we know what > we are aiming at. > > Here is the basic mechanism. [snip] Since my request is about one one thousandth as complex as this I'm just going to ask: Will this stuff be usable as a lightweight mechanism inside the kernel? Case in point, could nfsd be changed to only have one process (instead of many) while still being able to block and get an upcall? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 17: 1:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A495237B416 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA40292; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:50:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:50:51 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: <20011121184508.T13393@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We believe so, but have not proven it to ourselves. It is considered to be a valid goal and if it seems to be easily reachable then we will modify structires etc. to allow it.. On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Julian Elischer [011121 18:40] wrote: > > > > > > Peter, John (Baldwin) and I got to gether yesterday and thrashed > > out the mechanisms behind the KSE/thread scheduler. > > This allows us to go ahead and start coding again, now that we know what > > we are aiming at. > > > > Here is the basic mechanism. > [snip] > > Since my request is about one one thousandth as complex as this I'm > just going to ask: > > Will this stuff be usable as a lightweight mechanism inside the kernel? > > Case in point, could nfsd be changed to only have one process (instead > of many) while still being able to block and get an upcall? > > -Alfred > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 17:40:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D8D37B405 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:40:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA40419 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:36:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:36:53 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Julian Elischer wrote: > > they are at: > http://www.freebsd.org/~julian/threads/ > and are under the heading: > "Pictures drawn in tgif of a KSE scheduling. -- Nov 21 2001-- " > BTW they are .gif files. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 18:42: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [24.14.150.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D0C37B418 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:41:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAM2ftM53200 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:41:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 868CF3811; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:41:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: <20011121184508.T13393@elvis.mu.org> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:41:55 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20011122024155.868CF3811@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Julian Elischer [011121 18:40] wrote: > > > > > > Peter, John (Baldwin) and I got to gether yesterday and thrashed > > out the mechanisms behind the KSE/thread scheduler. > > This allows us to go ahead and start coding again, now that we know what > > we are aiming at. > > > > Here is the basic mechanism. > [snip] > > Since my request is about one one thousandth as complex as this I'm > just going to ask: > > Will this stuff be usable as a lightweight mechanism inside the kernel? We talked doing a "raw" implemetation first without the userland glue (like rfork is "raw" with no sync mechanisms etc). If we have this basic functionality first then we should be able to glue it onto kthread pretty easily. > Case in point, could nfsd be changed to only have one process (instead > of many) while still being able to block and get an upcall? In theory yes. The thing is though that nfsd doesn't really run in userland so it doesn't really buy us much. It just gives us a slightly less overhead way of popping new contexts into and out of existence. What's really needed is for nfsd to self manage. All the userland process is needed for is creating and binding the listen sockets, and holding them open while the kernel has fun with them. It shouldn't have to create $n processes in advance "in case" they are needed. The kernel side should be able to add/remove nfsd contexts in response to load (and some limits). Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 19:48:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail12.speakeasy.net (mail12.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E139837B417 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:48:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1177 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 03:48:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail12.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Nov 2001 03:48:33 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:48:16 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Julian Elischer Subject: RE: Kernel Thread scheduler Cc: arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Nov-01 Julian Elischer wrote: > > > Peter, John (Baldwin) and I got to gether yesterday and thrashed > out the mechanisms behind the KSE/thread scheduler. > This allows us to go ahead and start coding again, now that we know what > we are aiming at. > > Here is the basic mechanism. > > > recap: > "thread".. structure that is associated with a running context, running in > the kernel.. has a stack, and storage for registers when blocked.. > WHen a system call starts, the 'current' thread is used. WHen it blocks, a > new one is created to return to the userland and collect more work. When > the syscall finishes, the thread may be freed back rto a system wide pool > of threads, unless it is the last one in the KSE, in which case it remains > 'current' and in reserve for the next syscall. > > "KSE" (Kernel schedulable Entity). An entity that has cycles. It can spend > them running one of the contexts in associated threads. It is to some > extent a virtual CPU. > > "KSEGROUP" (KSEGRP). AN entity that represents a group of KSEs that, > together share the same scheduling characteristics. There can only be at > Maximum N KSEs in a KSEGRP, where N is the number of processors. KSEGRPs > homd scheduling parameters and statistics. > > "Process" (proc). All resources and permissions are properties of the > process. > > There can be 1 or more KSEGRPS per process. > There can be 1 to N KSEs per KSEGRP. > There can be 0 or more threads per KSEGRP at any time. > > > Structures for scheduling: > Threads aer owned by a KSEGRP. > The KSEGRP has a list of all its runnable threads, sorted in priority > order, > The KSEGRP has a list of all its blocked threads. > The KSEGRP has a list of KSEs. > The first N runnable threads have a pointer to an assigned KSE. > The assigned KSE is either on the run queue, or actuallly running that > thread at that time. > The KSE is on the run queue according to the priority of the thread > which is currently assigned to it. (it has a back link to it too.) A ksegroup also has a pointer to the highest priority runnable thread w/o a reserved KSE, which is important for when a running thread blocks and the KSE needs to pick anotehr thread to run so that we know what thread to give to the KSE that we steal the thread from. > I have drawn up a set of pictures inllustrating the basic > behaviour during thread scheduling.. > > they are at: > http://www.freebsd.org/~julian/threads/ > and are under the heading: > "Pictures drawn in tgif of a KSE scheduling. -- Nov 21 2001-- " > > Basically: As threads become runnable they are hung on the runnable > queue for their KSEGRP, and if there are no runnable or running KSEs > one is put on the system run queue. > If the new thread is among the N highest priority threads, then > teh lowest priority thread with an assigned (but not yet running) KSE > is unassigned, and it's KSE is repositionned in the system run queue > in a place suitable for the new thread. It is then assigned to that > thread. Yep, that pointer above (which we did discuss, it was just missing from your list. :) > Pre-emption of a running thread (normal timesharing-wise) by another > thread in the same KSEGRP, when the running thread on a KSE either > completes or blocks. However the KSE itself can be pre-empted by a higher > priority KSE from a different process. > > In other words a thread of higher priority than the running thread, > from the same group, will not pre-empt that running thread, but will > move to the head of the queue to be 'next'. The priority > of the running thread that would have been pre-emted might be bumped..? Nah. This is fine enough for time sharing threads. For real-time threads preemption will be immediate. > There needs to be a way to stop the KSE assigned to the higher priority > thread from pre-empting it's sibling, but rather, try run on another > processor. (Is this needed? might something bad happen > if it does pre-empt it?) (can you pre-empt a syscall in the kernel?) If the current KSE is always running the highest priority thread available you don't have this. When you preempt due to a real time thread becoming runnable, you just always preempt on the current CPU. Trying to do IPI's to be perfect isn't worth the extra effort. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 21:24:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.208.78.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E2C37B416 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) id fAM5OGX88404; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:24:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:24:16 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Julian Elischer Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011121212416.A88350@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from julian@elischer.org on Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 04:39:18PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 04:39:18PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > recap: > "thread".. structure that is associated with a running context, running in > the kernel.. has a stack, and storage for registers when blocked.. > WHen a system call starts, the 'current' thread is used. WHen it blocks, a > new one is created to return to the userland and collect more work. When > the syscall finishes, the thread may be freed back rto a system wide pool > of threads, unless it is the last one in the KSE, in which case it remains > 'current' and in reserve for the next syscall. > I just spent a week debating namespace pollution with the wine developers [1]. Is there any chance all this work will be protected by #define _KERNEL? [1] Our struct thread in conflicts with the struct thread in wine. Fortunately, we can currently work around this conflict. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 23:22:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C20D37B41A for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:22:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 5278 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 07:22:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Nov 2001 07:22:14 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011121212416.A88350@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:22:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Steve Kargl Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Julian Elischer Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Nov-01 Steve Kargl wrote: > On Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 04:39:18PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: >> >> >> recap: >> "thread".. structure that is associated with a running context, running in >> the kernel.. has a stack, and storage for registers when blocked.. >> WHen a system call starts, the 'current' thread is used. WHen it blocks, a >> new one is created to return to the userland and collect more work. When >> the syscall finishes, the thread may be freed back rto a system wide pool >> of threads, unless it is the last one in the KSE, in which case it remains >> 'current' and in reserve for the next syscall. >> > > I just spent a week debating namespace pollution with the > wine developers [1]. Is there any chance all this work will > be protected by #define _KERNEL? > > [1] Our struct thread in conflicts with the > struct thread in wine. Fortunately, we can currently work > around this conflict. Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 23:28:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EB437B418; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 5566081D14; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:28:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:28:38 -0600 From: Alfred Perlstein To: John Baldwin Cc: Steve Kargl , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Julian Elischer Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011122012838.V13393@elvis.mu.org> References: <20011121212416.A88350@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 11:22:09PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * John Baldwin [011122 01:22] wrote: > > Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, > and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. #if defined(_KERNEL) || defined(_REALLY_WANT_PROC) -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' http://www.morons.org/rants/gpl-harmful.php3 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 23:30:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.speakeasy.net (mail5.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91A137B405 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:30:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 18606 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 07:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Nov 2001 07:30:17 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20011122012838.V13393@elvis.mu.org> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:30:16 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Cc: Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Steve Kargl Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Nov-01 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * John Baldwin [011122 01:22] wrote: >> >> Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, >> and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. > >#if defined(_KERNEL) || defined(_REALLY_WANT_PROC) Yes, we already have _REALLY_WANT_PROC. It's called: #include Unfortunately includes lots and lots of other garbage. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Nov 21 23:41:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432E837B405; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 32C6981D14; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:41:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:41:09 -0600 From: Alfred Perlstein To: John Baldwin Cc: Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Steve Kargl Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011122014109.W13393@elvis.mu.org> References: <20011122012838.V13393@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 11:30:16PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * John Baldwin [011122 01:30] wrote: > > On 22-Nov-01 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * John Baldwin [011122 01:22] wrote: > >> > >> Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, > >> and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. > > > >#if defined(_KERNEL) || defined(_REALLY_WANT_PROC) > > Yes, we already have _REALLY_WANT_PROC. It's called: > > #include > > Unfortunately includes lots and lots of other garbage. Why the hell is wine sucking it in, especially on FreeBSD? I'm 99% sure i was able to blast through this breakage by simply removing the #include from a wine file then everything just worked. What the hell is the point of a 'configure' script otherwise? GRR. Why do we even care? When was the last time wine was good for anything besideds barely being able to run solitare on FreeBSD anyhow? -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' http://www.morons.org/rants/gpl-harmful.php3 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 1:25: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from gateway.posi.net (c1096725-a.smateo1.sfba.home.com [24.250.130.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDEFD37B419 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kbyanc@localhost) by gateway.posi.net (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAM9Oje85013; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:24:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kbyanc@posi.net) X-Authentication-Warning: gateway.posi.net: kbyanc owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:24:44 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Yancey To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Steve Kargl Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: <20011122014109.W13393@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Why do we even care? When was the last time wine was good for > anything besideds barely being able to run solitare on FreeBSD > anyhow? > Why do we care? Because applications are the raison d'etre of operation systems. :) And this application in particular is the gateway to a heck of a lot more applications (whether you personally use those applications or not is beside the point). Kelly [*] I have never used wine myself, but I was flabbergasted by this remark. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 1:40:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0A137B419; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:40:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA42004; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:21:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:21:39 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Steve Kargl Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: <20011122014109.W13393@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG apparently they DIDN'T need user.h they just thought they did.... On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * John Baldwin [011122 01:30] wrote: > > > > On 22-Nov-01 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > * John Baldwin [011122 01:22] wrote: > > >> > > >> Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, > > >> and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. > > > > > >#if defined(_KERNEL) || defined(_REALLY_WANT_PROC) > > > > Yes, we already have _REALLY_WANT_PROC. It's called: > > > > #include > > > > Unfortunately includes lots and lots of other garbage. > > Why the hell is wine sucking it in, especially on FreeBSD? > > I'm 99% sure i was able to blast through this breakage by > simply removing the #include from a wine file then everything > just worked. > > What the hell is the point of a 'configure' script otherwise? > > GRR. > > Why do we even care? When was the last time wine was good for > anything besideds barely being able to run solitare on FreeBSD > anyhow? > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] > 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," > start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' > http://www.morons.org/rants/gpl-harmful.php3 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 1:40:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07A437B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA42034; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:30:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:30:41 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: John Baldwin Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 22-Nov-01 Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > > Peter, John (Baldwin) and I got to gether yesterday and thrashed > > out the mechanisms behind the KSE/thread scheduler. > > This allows us to go ahead and start coding again, now that we know what > > we are aiming at. > > > > Here is the basic mechanism. > > > > > > recap: > > "thread".. structure that is associated with a running context, running in > > the kernel.. has a stack, and storage for registers when blocked.. > > WHen a system call starts, the 'current' thread is used. WHen it blocks, a > > new one is created to return to the userland and collect more work. When > > the syscall finishes, the thread may be freed back rto a system wide pool > > of threads, unless it is the last one in the KSE, in which case it remains > > 'current' and in reserve for the next syscall. > > > > "KSE" (Kernel schedulable Entity). An entity that has cycles. It can spend > > them running one of the contexts in associated threads. It is to some > > extent a virtual CPU. > > > > "KSEGROUP" (KSEGRP). AN entity that represents a group of KSEs that, > > together share the same scheduling characteristics. There can only be at > > Maximum N KSEs in a KSEGRP, where N is the number of processors. KSEGRPs > > homd scheduling parameters and statistics. > > > > "Process" (proc). All resources and permissions are properties of the > > process. > > > > There can be 1 or more KSEGRPS per process. > > There can be 1 to N KSEs per KSEGRP. > > There can be 0 or more threads per KSEGRP at any time. > > > > > > Structures for scheduling: > > Threads aer owned by a KSEGRP. > > The KSEGRP has a list of all its runnable threads, sorted in priority > > order, > > The KSEGRP has a list of all its blocked threads. > > The KSEGRP has a list of KSEs. > > The first N runnable threads have a pointer to an assigned KSE. > > The assigned KSE is either on the run queue, or actuallly running that > > thread at that time. > > The KSE is on the run queue according to the priority of the thread > > which is currently assigned to it. (it has a back link to it too.) > > A ksegroup also has a pointer to the highest priority runnable thread w/o a > reserved KSE, which is important for when a running thread blocks and the KSE > needs to pick anotehr thread to run so that we know what thread to give to the > KSE that we steal the thread from. > I made a slight change to this in the pictures. (did you look at them yet? what do you think?) Instead of being a pointer to the next 'unassigned' thread, I made it a pointer to the "last assigned thread". It happens to fall out better in some cases. (e.g. you can find the last assigned thread when it is also the "last thread" as well.. If you used "first-unassigned" it would have to be NULL as all are assigned..) > > I have drawn up a set of pictures inllustrating the basic > > behaviour during thread scheduling.. > > > > they are at: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~julian/threads/ > > and are under the heading: > > "Pictures drawn in tgif of a KSE scheduling. -- Nov 21 2001-- " Have you looked at them? I think I covered all the points we discussed. > > > > Basically: As threads become runnable they are hung on the runnable > > queue for their KSEGRP, and if there are no runnable or running KSEs > > one is put on the system run queue. > > If the new thread is among the N highest priority threads, then > > teh lowest priority thread with an assigned (but not yet running) KSE > > is unassigned, and it's KSE is repositionned in the system run queue > > in a place suitable for the new thread. It is then assigned to that > > thread. > > Yep, that pointer above (which we did discuss, it was just missing > from your list. :) Yep, just slipped by.. (but it's in the pics which are much more descriptive.. (A picture is worth a thousand words so my 7 picures amount to about 21 pages of description :-) > > > Pre-emption of a running thread (normal timesharing-wise) by another > > thread in the same KSEGRP, when the running thread on a KSE either > > completes or blocks. However the KSE itself can be pre-empted by a higher > > priority KSE from a different process. > > > > In other words a thread of higher priority than the running thread, > > from the same group, will not pre-empt that running thread, but will > > move to the head of the queue to be 'next'. The priority > > of the running thread that would have been pre-emted might be bumped..? > > Nah. This is fine enough for time sharing threads. For real-time > threads preemption will be immediate. > > > There needs to be a way to stop the KSE assigned to the higher priority > > thread from pre-empting it's sibling, but rather, try run on another > > processor. (Is this needed? might something bad happen > > if it does pre-empt it?) (can you pre-empt a syscall in the kernel?) > > If the current KSE is always running the highest priority thread > available you don't have this. When you preempt due to a real time > thread becoming runnable, you just always preempt on the current CPU. > Trying to do IPI's to be perfect isn't worth the extra effort. > > -- > > John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 1:47: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns.caldera.de (ns.caldera.de [212.34.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB12A37B416; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hch@localhost) by ns.caldera.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) id fAM9kjn31938; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:46:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:46:45 +0100 From: Christoph Hellwig To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: John Baldwin , Steve Kargl , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Julian Elischer Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011122104645.A31484@caldera.de> References: <20011121212416.A88350@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20011122012838.V13393@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011122012838.V13393@elvis.mu.org>; from bright@mu.org on Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:28:38AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:28:38AM -0600, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, > > and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. > > #if defined(_KERNEL) || defined(_REALLY_WANT_PROC) What about _KMEMUSER? Christoph -- Of course it doesn't work. We've performed a software upgrade. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 2:42:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from hal-5.inet.it (hal-5.inet.it [213.92.5.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 777EB37B41A for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hal-5.inet.it (8.11.1/8.11.1) id fAMAgg7183000 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:42:42 +0100 Received: from acampi.inet.it(213.92.1.165) by hal-5.inet.it via I-SMTP id s-213.92.1.165-SFxhuR; Thu Nov 22 11:42:41 2001 Received: from webcom.it (brian.inet.it [213.92.1.190]) by acampi.inet.it (Postfix) with SMTP id 608371554F for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:42:41 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 21202 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Nov 2001 10:42:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:42:25 +0100 From: Andrea Campi To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Importing AFS / Arla in kernel Message-ID: <20011122104225.GC1600@webcom.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23.2i X-Echelon: BND CIA NSA Mossad KGB MI6 IRA detonator nuclear assault strike Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, recently I've been working (on and off) with AFS, and in particular trying to keep Arla working through all the changes (KSE etc), together with assar@. Of course things would be much easier if the xfs module, which is at the base of Arla, could be committed in the base kernel; this way, while I'd be more than glad to act as maintainer for it and in general handling major stuff, everybody would be able to help keep it in good shape. Does this need a vote or something? If there are no strong nay-sayers, I will file a PR with everything. The sources would be imported in contrib, I already have all the module glue etc. I'm not asking for commit access, assar would handle commits for me; having access to both repositories, we would make sure changes will go to Arla before, so sources will always be on vendor branch. I should probably mention again: this is not all of AFS, only the basic kernel support. The rest will stay in ports, this just means better support and easier updates. So, do you want it or not? Bye, Andrea -- To boldly go where I surely don't belong. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 3:40: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1B937B416; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 03:39:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAMBgvh11425; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 03:42:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200111221142.fAMBgvh11425@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: John Baldwin Cc: Steve Kargl , arch@FreeBSD.org, Julian Elischer Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:22:09 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 03:42:57 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, > and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. #ifdef _KERNEL #define PROC_THREAD struct thread #else #define PROC_THREAD void #endif PROC_THREAD *p_thread; etc. You get my drift. Exposing something called "struct thread" is just stupid, guys. You ought to know better than this by know; at the very least it should have been k_thread. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 7:37:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from bsdone.bsdwins.com (www.bsdwins.com [192.58.184.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AB237B416 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bsdone.bsdwins.com (8.11.6/8.11.0) id fAMFbbw56646; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:37:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jwd) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:37:37 -0500 From: John De Boskey To: Andrea Campi Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Importing AFS / Arla in kernel Message-ID: <20011122103737.A56530@bsdwins.com> References: <20011122104225.GC1600@webcom.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011122104225.GC1600@webcom.it>; from andrea@webcom.it on Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 11:42:25AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I tend to think this would be a good thing... Similar yet different to smbfs which is in the tree.. -John ----- Andrea Campi's Original Message ----- > Hi all, > > recently I've been working (on and off) with AFS, and in particular trying to > keep Arla working through all the changes (KSE etc), together with assar@. > Of course things would be much easier if the xfs module, which is at the base > of Arla, could be committed in the base kernel; this way, while I'd be more > than glad to act as maintainer for it and in general handling major stuff, > everybody would be able to help keep it in good shape. > > Does this need a vote or something? If there are no strong nay-sayers, I will > file a PR with everything. The sources would be imported in contrib, I already > have all the module glue etc. I'm not asking for commit access, assar would > handle commits for me; having access to both repositories, we would make sure > changes will go to Arla before, so sources will always be on vendor branch. > > I should probably mention again: this is not all of AFS, only the basic > kernel support. The rest will stay in ports, this just means better > support and easier updates. > > So, do you want it or not? > > Bye, > Andrea > > -- > To boldly go where I surely don't belong. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 8:46:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.208.78.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F37AD37B41A; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:46:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) id fAMGkLE94222; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:46:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:46:20 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: John Baldwin , Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011122084620.A94105@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20011122012838.V13393@elvis.mu.org> <20011122014109.W13393@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011122014109.W13393@elvis.mu.org>; from bright@mu.org on Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:41:09AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:41:09AM -0600, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * John Baldwin [011122 01:30] wrote: > > > > On 22-Nov-01 Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Why the hell is wine sucking it in, especially on FreeBSD? This has been fixed. Apparently, wine needs some linux specific stuff from . > I'm 99% sure i was able to blast through this breakage by > simply removing the #include from a wine file then everything > just worked. > > What the hell is the point of a 'configure' script otherwise? The offending code was #ifdef HAVE_SYS_USER_H #include #endif configure found . > Why do we even care? When was the last time wine was good for > anything besideds barely being able to run solitare on FreeBSD > anyhow? Apparently, you don't work in an environment where people send you MSWord documents or Excel spreadsheets everyday. If, and when, wine reachs maturity, I'll never have to reboot to edit a Word document. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 9:43:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8E837B416 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from winston.freebsd.org (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fAMHhSH49520; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:43:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@winston.freebsd.org) To: Andrea Campi Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Importing AFS / Arla in kernel In-Reply-To: Message from Andrea Campi of "Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:42:25 +0100." <20011122104225.GC1600@webcom.it> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:43:28 -0800 Message-ID: <49517.1006451008@winston.freebsd.org> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Does this need a vote or something? If there are no strong nay-sayers, I will > file a PR with everything. The sources would be imported in contrib, I alread y > have all the module glue etc. I'm not asking for commit access, assar would I don't see any reason why this shouldn't happen if it will make your support for AFS easier. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 10:48:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from kayak.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2976B37B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by kayak.xcllnt.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) with ESMTP id fAMImEQ60511; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:48:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcel@kayak.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.11.6/8.11.3) id fAMImrB00825; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:48:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:48:53 -0800 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Julian Elischer Cc: John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011122104853.B651@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.21i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:30:41AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > I made a slight change to this in the pictures. > (did you look at them yet? what do you think?) I know it's not directed to me, but... It's a nice thought to introduce shade to direct focus. Trying to capture the dynamics of an event in a picture is always difficult. The arrows help. It made me understand the KSE topic must better, (ie less abstract) so if all else fails, know that it at least helped 1 person: me ;-) For that, thanks, -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 11:43:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E1737B405 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (arr@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.6/8.11.5) with SMTP id fAMJgvD32286; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:42:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from arr@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: arr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:42:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew R. Reiter" X-Sender: arr@fledge.watson.org To: Steve Kargl Cc: Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: wine namespace pollution (was Re: Kernel Thread scheduler) In-Reply-To: <20011121212416.A88350@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Steve Kargl wrote: : :[1] Our struct thread in conflicts with the :struct thread in wine. Fortunately, we can currently work :around this conflict. : I thought "issue" came up a couple weeks ago and that wine really did not need to include sys/user.h and therefore the person removed the #include line and all was well. Is this still the same problem? Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew R. Reiter arr@watson.org arr@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 12: 6:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.208.78.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBEF37B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) id fAMK6p795695; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:06:51 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: "Andrew R. Reiter" Cc: Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: wine namespace pollution (was Re: Kernel Thread scheduler) Message-ID: <20011122120651.B95507@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20011121212416.A88350@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from arr@FreeBSD.org on Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 02:42:56PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 02:42:56PM -0500, Andrew R. Reiter wrote: > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Steve Kargl wrote: > > : > :[1] Our struct thread in conflicts with the > :struct thread in wine. Fortunately, we can currently work > :around this conflict. > : > > I thought "issue" came up a couple weeks ago and that wine really did not > need to include sys/user.h and therefore the person removed the #include > line and all was well. Is this still the same problem? > Wine fixed this problem a couple days ago. But, if Julian is starting the next round of KSE work, it would be nice to protect kernel internal structures if we can. As pointed out by jhb, struct proc includes struct thread, so consumers (e.g., gdb, ps, ...) of struct proc need be updated. I'm going to play around today to see what needs to be done. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 13: 0:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC7F37B416; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA44529; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:54:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:54:57 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Marcel Moolenaar Cc: John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: <20011122104853.B651@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Interstingly only about 4 people downloaded all 7 pictures. (according to the logs).. This is a bit disappointing. Quite a few more looked at the first one, and then didn;t bother with the rest.. I wonder if they had problems with it? was it impossible to look at them for some people? Should I have done something different with them? Or maybe the topic of shecduling thasks with multiple threads is just boring :-) On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:30:41AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > I made a slight change to this in the pictures. > > (did you look at them yet? what do you think?) > > I know it's not directed to me, but... > > It's a nice thought to introduce shade to direct focus. Trying to > capture the dynamics of an event in a picture is always difficult. > The arrows help. It made me understand the KSE topic must better, > (ie less abstract) so if all else fails, know that it at least > helped 1 person: me ;-) I did it in a better way for the other one (the old sequence) that actually worked better... I may redo the new ones to use the old shading method.. it worked better. thanks for the comment! > > For that, thanks, > > -- > Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 13: 7:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C298D37B41B; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (arr@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.6/8.11.5) with SMTP id fAML6UI34343; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:06:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from arr@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: arr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:06:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew R. Reiter" X-Sender: arr@fledge.watson.org To: Julian Elischer Cc: Marcel Moolenaar , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It is thanksgiving... On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Julian Elischer wrote: :Interstingly only about 4 people downloaded all 7 pictures. :(according to the logs).. This is a bit disappointing. :Quite a few more looked at the first one, and then didn;t bother with the :rest.. I wonder if they had problems with it? was it impossible to look at :them for some people? Should I have done something different with them? :Or maybe the topic of shecduling thasks with multiple threads is just :boring :-) : : :On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: : :> On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:30:41AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: :> > :> > I made a slight change to this in the pictures. :> > (did you look at them yet? what do you think?) :> :> I know it's not directed to me, but... :> :> It's a nice thought to introduce shade to direct focus. Trying to :> capture the dynamics of an event in a picture is always difficult. :> The arrows help. It made me understand the KSE topic must better, :> (ie less abstract) so if all else fails, know that it at least :> helped 1 person: me ;-) : :I did it in a better way for the other one (the old sequence) :that actually worked better... I may redo the new ones :to use the old shading method.. it worked better. : : :thanks for the comment! : :> :> For that, thanks, :> :> -- :> Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net :> :> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :> with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message :> : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message : -- Andrew R. Reiter arr@watson.org arr@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 14: 0:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3329437B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:00:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA44772; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:58:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:58:08 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Mike Smith Cc: John Baldwin , Steve Kargl , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: <200111221142.fAMBgvh11425@mass.dis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a valid point.. should I change the name in the next round a bit? and if so what to? I don't really want "k_thread", any more than I would think of changing proc to k_proc.. Theoretically a user program shouldn't even know about proc and thread.. what is there in proc.h that a user program needs? On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, > > and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. > > #ifdef _KERNEL > #define PROC_THREAD struct thread > #else > #define PROC_THREAD void > #endif > > > PROC_THREAD *p_thread; > > etc. You get my drift. > > Exposing something called "struct thread" is just stupid, guys. You > ought to know better than this by know; at the very least it should have > been k_thread. > > -- > ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his > rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want > to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force > people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] > V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 14: 0:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A149337B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA44752; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:46:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:46:30 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Andrew R. Reiter" Cc: Marcel Moolenaar , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In France/Germany/Australia/Japan/etc.? :-) On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Andrew R. Reiter wrote: > > It is thanksgiving... > > On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Julian Elischer wrote: > > :Interstingly only about 4 people downloaded all 7 pictures. > :(according to the logs).. This is a bit disappointing. > :Quite a few more looked at the first one, and then didn;t bother with the > :rest.. I wonder if they had problems with it? was it impossible to look at > :them for some people? Should I have done something different with them? > :Or maybe the topic of shecduling thasks with multiple threads is just > :boring :-) > : > : > :On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > : > :> On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:30:41AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > :> > > :> > I made a slight change to this in the pictures. > :> > (did you look at them yet? what do you think?) > :> > :> I know it's not directed to me, but... > :> > :> It's a nice thought to introduce shade to direct focus. Trying to > :> capture the dynamics of an event in a picture is always difficult. > :> The arrows help. It made me understand the KSE topic must better, > :> (ie less abstract) so if all else fails, know that it at least > :> helped 1 person: me ;-) > : > :I did it in a better way for the other one (the old sequence) > :that actually worked better... I may redo the new ones > :to use the old shading method.. it worked better. > : > : > :thanks for the comment! > : > :> > :> For that, thanks, > :> > :> -- > :> Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net > :> > :> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > :> with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > :> > : > : > :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > :with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > : > > -- > Andrew R. Reiter > arr@watson.org > arr@FreeBSD.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 14: 8:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.208.78.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BA637B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) id fAMM8Zm96609; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:08:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:08:35 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Julian Elischer Cc: Mike Smith , John Baldwin , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011122140835.A96598@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <200111221142.fAMBgvh11425@mass.dis.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from julian@elischer.org on Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:58:08PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 01:58:08PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > This is a valid point.. should I change the name in the next round a bit? > and if so what to? I don't really want "k_thread", any more than I would > think of changing proc to k_proc.. Theoretically a user program shouldn't > even know about proc and thread.. what is there in proc.h that a > user program needs? > > Certainly, a debugger would need to know about a process. I suspect ps, ptrace, and a few others also need some knowledge about struct proc. I threw a #ifdef _KERNEL into to see what would happen. The first problem is libkvm/kvm_getswapinfo.c -o kvm_getswapinfo.So cc -O -pipe -DLIBC_SCCS -I/usr/src/lib/libkvm -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i386/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c -o kvm_proc.o cc -fpic -DPIC -O -pipe -DLIBC_SCCS -I/usr/src/lib/libkvm -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i386/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c -o kvm_proc.So /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c: In function `kvm_proclist': /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c:120: storage size of `proc' isn't known /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c:121: storage size of `pproc' isn't known /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c: In function `kvm_proclist': /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c:120: storage size of `proc' isn't known /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c:121: storage size of `pproc' isn't known -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 14:18: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2D037B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:18:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id CDEBC14C2E; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:18:02 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Steve Kargl Cc: Julian Elischer , Mike Smith , John Baldwin , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler References: <200111221142.fAMBgvh11425@mass.dis.org> <20011122140835.A96598@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 22 Nov 2001 23:18:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20011122140835.A96598@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Message-ID: Lines: 24 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Kargl writes: > Certainly, a debugger would need to know about a process. > I suspect ps, ptrace, and a few others also need some > knowledge about struct proc. No, struct kinfo_proc mostly. > libkvm/kvm_getswapinfo.c -o kvm_getswapinfo.So > cc -O -pipe -DLIBC_SCCS -I/usr/src/lib/libkvm -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i386/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c -o kvm_proc.o > cc -fpic -DPIC -O -pipe -DLIBC_SCCS -I/usr/src/lib/libkvm -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i386/usr/include -c /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c -o kvm_proc.So > /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c: In function `kvm_proclist': > /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c:120: storage size of `proc' isn't known > /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c:121: storage size of `pproc' isn't known > /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c: In function `kvm_proclist': > /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c:120: storage size of `proc' isn't known > /usr/src/lib/libkvm/kvm_proc.c:121: storage size of `pproc' isn't known This is probably bogus. Top(1) also bogusly stores struct kinfo_proc * as struct proc *, though the code that dereferences the pointers casts them back. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 20:35:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F129E37B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-209.245.133.236.dial1.sanjose1.level3.net ([209.245.133.236] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16783P-00059Y-00; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:35:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3BFDD227.8F9A9540@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:35:51 -0800 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: Marcel Moolenaar , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > Interstingly only about 4 people downloaded all 7 pictures. > (according to the logs).. This is a bit disappointing. > Quite a few more looked at the first one, and then didn;t bother with the > rest.. I wonder if they had problems with it? was it impossible to look at > them for some people? Should I have done something different with them? > Or maybe the topic of shecduling thasks with multiple threads is just > boring :-) I am incredible disagreement about the idea of virtual processors (KSEG's), but then you know that from two years ago. It won't scale. There's no need to repeat everything ad infinitum, just because it's easier to implement. The resulting code is actually _less_ complex, though its conceptual complexity is higher. If you go don the virtual processor route, expect me to not ride in the bandwagon. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 22:14:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E773E37B417; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAN6Eia83150; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:14:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fAN6Ei722956; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:14:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200111230614.fAN6Ei722956@harmony.village.org> To: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Cc: Mike Smith , John Baldwin , Steve Kargl , arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:58:08 PST." References: Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:14:44 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Julian Elischer writes: : This is a valid point.. should I change the name in the next round a bit? : and if so what to? I don't really want "k_thread", any more than I would : think of changing proc to k_proc.. Theoretically a user program shouldn't : even know about proc and thread.. what is there in proc.h that a : user program needs? Well, there's always a typedef hack :-) /me ducks behind d_thread_t Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 22:16:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80BE37B419 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAN6Gta83163; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:16:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fAN6Gt723000; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200111230616.fAN6Gt723000@harmony.village.org> To: Sugan Subramanian Subject: Re: Is there going to be support for MIPS platform Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:30:47 PST." <3BE89CD7.90307@home.com> References: <3BE89CD7.90307@home.com> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:16:54 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3BE89CD7.90307@home.com> Sugan Subramanian writes: : Is there going to be support for MIPS cpu platforms in freeBSD? Unlikely. I started an effort to do this, but got swamped with other things. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 22:42:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from web20210.mail.yahoo.com (web20210.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4E1237B421 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:41:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20011123064157.99869.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.16.200.178] by web20210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:41:57 PST Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:41:57 -0800 (PST) From: GoodNews To: opsys@open-systems.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Дорогой друг! Извини, что отбираю твое время на чтение данного послания,так как мы все устали от бесконечных рекламных рассылок и всяческого мусора,но я надеюсь, что несколько минут затраченного времени смогут окупиться, если ты решишься изменить свой взгляд на окружающую тебя действительность. Предлагается в корне изменить свою жизнь! И для этого предназначена программа, реально действующая, с реальными возможностями заработать деньги, затратив на это не очень большие усилия. Этот метод заработка денег на самом деле ДЕЙСТВУЕТ НА 100%, КОГДА УГОДНО, ГДЕ УГОДНО. Вы сможете заработать более 1.000.000 рублей в последующие 90 дней. Это не цепное письмо, а отличная легальная возможность заработать деньги. Не пожалейте времени, ознакомьтесь с предлагаемой программой, и успех и благополучие посетят Ваш дом! Данное письмо придет к Вам на этот адрес один единственный раз, больше я Вас не побеспокою. Но если у Вас имеются и другие адреса, не обижайтесь, если это послание придет и на них,программа не может отследить хозяина ящика, только факт существования адреса. Если Вас это заинтересовало и Вы желаете больше узнать о работе предлагаемой программы, Вы можете отправить данное сообщение обратно с пометкой "More", что бы я выслала Вам подробное описание работы системы по Вашему желанию, а не занимать Ваше время и не тратить Ваши деньги на получение вложенного документа. Возвращенные без данной пометки письма будут, как Вы правильно догадываетесь, удалятся без прочтения. Но если Вы хотите поругаться и выпустить пар, то пожалуйста :-) Надеюсь, Вам станет легче :-) Еще раз извините, что отнимаю Ваше время. Успехов вам и всяческих благ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Nov 22 23:20:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DFA37B405; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA46649; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:01:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:01:53 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Terry Lambert Cc: Marcel Moolenaar , John Baldwin , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler In-Reply-To: <3BFDD227.8F9A9540@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Terry Lambert wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > Interstingly only about 4 people downloaded all 7 pictures. > > (according to the logs).. This is a bit disappointing. > > Quite a few more looked at the first one, and then didn;t bother with the > > rest.. I wonder if they had problems with it? was it impossible to look at > > them for some people? Should I have done something different with them? > > Or maybe the topic of shecduling thasks with multiple threads is just > > boring :-) > > I am incredible disagreement about the idea of virtual processors > (KSEG's), but then you know that from two years ago. I believe things have gone forward since then. KSEGs are not virtual processors. They are simply an entity which collects statistics for, and acts as a contact point for, a group of KSEs which are sharing an allotment of CPU. The KSEs in turn are co-operating to execute asyncronous syscalls on behalf of the user. Each active syscall is a 'thread' in the kernel and may individually block or run. > > It won't scale. There's no need to repeat everything ad infinitum, > just because it's easier to implement. The resulting code is actually > _less_ complex, though its conceptual complexity is higher. "Repeat what?" I ask.. I see no reason that it will not scale. > > If you go don the virtual processor route, expect me to not ride in > the bandwagon. > > -- Terry > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Nov 23 7: 3:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9172237B405 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 07:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 167HsY-000Boc-00 for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:04:34 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Using a larger block size on large filesystems Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:04:34 +0200 Message-ID: <45421.1006527874@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, Background: I recently got some disk space to play with and, following discussions hear about ffs block sizes, I used postmark [1] to test the "MTA-visible" difference between an 8192/1024 vs a 16384/2048 filesystem. I found that, for this large filesystem, the mixed MTA-like transaction rate [2] on a 16384/2048 ffs [3] filesystem outperforms the 8192/1024 ffs filesystem by a factor of 67% (using 2-4 hours benchmarks that consistently show exactly the same transaction rate when repeated). Compared with the 1% improvement I score with noatime and the 38% improvement scored by using a Mylex controller with 15Krpm drives instead of a Compaq SmartArray (yuk! yuk!) controller with 10Krpm drives, this is a valuable optimization! The question: I'm now looking at finding the minimum filesystem size for which defaulting the block/frag ratio to 16384/2048 would make sense. I know there was some discussion on -arch recently about teaching sysinstall to make this decision. However, I'd like to suggest that newfs do the thinking instead. Obviously, if either of the -b or -f options are specified, the current behaviour will be unchanged. However, I'd like to code in a filesystem size threshold over which newfs sans -b or -f options will jump up to block/frag sizes of 16384/2048. And more obviously, I'm going to do a lot more testing to see what kinds of applications might be negatively impacted by the change! Assuming that the threshold my research leads me to is agreeable to the community, is there any sense in making this a sysinstall decision, or can I press on with making it a newfs job? Ciao, Sheldon. [1] See the ports/bechmarks/postmark/pkg-descr for information on postmark, a storage benchmark with MTAs and news servers in mind. [2] Postmark v1.5 configuration: 100000 files, 500000 transactions, 10KB to 25KB file size spread, random seed 42. [3] Soft updates enabled in both cases. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Nov 23 8: 6:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail11.speakeasy.net (mail11.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1980237B405 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25527 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:06:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail11.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 23 Nov 2001 16:06:25 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:06:12 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Julian Elischer Subject: RE: Kernel Thread scheduler Cc: arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Nov-01 Julian Elischer wrote: >> A ksegroup also has a pointer to the highest priority runnable thread w/o a >> reserved KSE, which is important for when a running thread blocks and the >> KSE >> needs to pick anotehr thread to run so that we know what thread to give to >> the >> KSE that we steal the thread from. >> > > I made a slight change to this in the pictures. > (did you look at them yet? what do you think?) > Instead of being a pointer to the next 'unassigned' thread, > I made it a pointer to the "last assigned thread". > > It happens to fall out better in some cases. > (e.g. you can find the last assigned thread when it is also the "last > thread" as well.. If you used "first-unassigned" it would have to be NULL > as all are assigned..) That sounds fine. I just wanted the list here to be complete since not everyone has time to look at URLs. :) -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Nov 23 8: 6:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.speakeasy.net (mail5.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1620A37B418 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 4400 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:06:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 23 Nov 2001 16:06:13 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200111221142.fAMBgvh11425@mass.dis.org> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:06:13 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Cc: Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.org, Steve Kargl Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Nov-01 Mike Smith wrote: >> >> Perhaps if 'proc' is put under _KERNEL. Since proc embeds a kse, ksegroup, >> and thread, it can't very easily be defined w/o including those definitions. > >#ifdef _KERNEL >#define PROC_THREAD struct thread >#else >#define PROC_THREAD void >#endif > > > PROC_THREAD *p_thread; > > etc. You get my drift. > > Exposing something called "struct thread" is just stupid, guys. You > ought to know better than this by know; at the very least it should have > been k_thread. So is something called "struct proc" for that matter. Your example doesn't work howver, since proc doesn't include a pointer, it includes an actual structure. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Nov 23 15:56:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267C837B405 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:56:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id fANNuJV69063; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:56:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:56:19 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Using a larger block size on large filesystems Message-ID: <20011123155619.A68993@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.org References: <45421.1006527874@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <45421.1006527874@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za>; from sheldonh@starjuice.net on Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 05:04:34PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 05:04:34PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > I know there was some discussion on -arch recently about teaching > sysinstall to make this decision. However, I'd like to suggest that > newfs do the thinking instead. Agreed. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Nov 23 17:41:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2624837B405 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id fAO1fTr70187; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:41:29 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Steve Kargl Cc: Julian Elischer , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Thread scheduler Message-ID: <20011123174129.A70115@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mail-Followup-To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20011121212416.A88350@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20011121212416.A88350@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>; from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu on Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 09:24:16PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 09:24:16PM -0800, Steve Kargl wrote: > [1] Our struct thread in conflicts with the > struct thread in wine. Fortunately, we can currently work > around this conflict. EXACTLY why originally the names were picked to much more uncommon. I still do not understand why Julian felt the need to rename things from Jason Evan's well thought out paper. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 0:59: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1252E37B416 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:59:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id CD66981D01; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:58:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:58:58 -0600 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: Andrea Campi , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Importing AFS / Arla in kernel Message-ID: <20011124025858.Z13393@elvis.mu.org> References: <49517.1006451008@winston.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <49517.1006451008@winston.freebsd.org>; from jkh@winston.freebsd.org on Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 09:43:28AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Jordan Hubbard [011122 11:43] wrote: > > Does this need a vote or something? If there are no strong nay-sayers, I will > > file a PR with everything. The sources would be imported in contrib, I alread > y > > have all the module glue etc. I'm not asking for commit access, assar would > > I don't see any reason why this shouldn't happen if it will make your > support for AFS easier. Agreed, I'd really like to see this integrated. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' http://www.morons.org/rants/gpl-harmful.php3 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 9:41: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from chez.McKusick.COM (chez.mckusick.com [209.31.233.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FD637B419 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:37:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from beastie.mckusick.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.mckusick.com (8.11.4/8.9.3) with ESMTP id fAO9aXH03886; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:36:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mckusick@beastie.mckusick.com) Message-Id: <200111240936.fAO9aXH03886@beastie.mckusick.com> To: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: Using a larger block size on large filesystems Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:04:34 +0200." <45421.1006527874@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:36:33 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am of the opinion that we should default to 16K/2K for most filesystems today. I believe that the change should be in newfs. Kirk McKusick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 10:49:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28C9637B419 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id fAOIjM377587; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:45:22 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200111241845.fAOIjM377587@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kirk McKusick Cc: Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Using a larger block size on large filesystems References: <200111240936.fAO9aXH03886@beastie.mckusick.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I am of the opinion that we should default to 16K/2K for most :filesystems today. I believe that the change should be in newfs. : : Kirk McKusick The only thing I worry about is reduced performance when doing random database accesses, which makes me kinda want to give the system the capability to do smaller I/O's :-) But apart from that worry I agree completely. We get fewer indirection levels (64MB multiplier instead of 16MB per indirection block) , smaller bitmaps (1/2 the size), and less strain on the clustering code (at least for sequential I/O). Memory is getting cheap and filesystems are getting larger, too. Sheldon, I think you have a go to change the newfs default. Do it! p.s. side note on the buffer cache: The buffer cache is optimized for both 1K/8K and 2K/16K, but it is *NOT* optimized for anything larger. 2K/16K is thus the largest configuration we can use optimally in regards to the buffer cache. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 11:12:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from cypherpunks.cryptohill.net (sub-168ip36.carats.net [216.152.168.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C1C37B421 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from jeroen (sub-168ip56.carats.net [216.152.168.56]) by cypherpunks.cryptohill.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51041C900; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:08:24 -0400 (AST) From: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" To: "'Matthew Dillon'" , "'Kirk McKusick'" Cc: "'Sheldon Hearn'" , Subject: RE: Using a larger block size on large filesystems Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:08:22 -0400 Message-ID: <004501c1751b$63239e50$38a898d8@cryptohill.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 In-Reply-To: <200111241845.fAOIjM377587@apollo.backplane.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nice to hear that non-experts like me will be getting good defaults! <> Is it worth printing this (or a variation) as a diagnostic when newfs is invoked with a larger setting? It would help those who learn by trial-and-error. It may even prevent an unfavourable benchmark report in the future: "FreeBSD performance lousy for 4K/32K filesystem." "Duh, newfs told you so!" Cheers, -J To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 13:23:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from Mail6.mgfairfax.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5CB37B416 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from cox.rr.com ([24.163.98.190]) by Mail6.mgfairfax.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:10:21 -0500 From: "Racing Dynamics sales department" To: Subject: Our new web site for car enthusists Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:10:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset = "us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: EBMailer 3.10 (www.ebmailer.com) Message-ID: <093e521102118b1FE6@Mail6.mgfairfax.rr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Racing Dynamics is pleased to announce the complete redesign of our web site providing a complete line of high performance parts and styling accessories for BMW and Porsche automobiles. Our web site includes a complete catalog of these accessories and a secure 24 per day store to purchase any of these items. Please visit our site www.racdyn-usa.com or telephone us toll free at (800) 296-8881 If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, please reply to this e-mail with "Remove" in the subject field. You will be removed immediately. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 14:40:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86EA37B416 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.6/8.11.5) with SMTP id fAOMdHi64071; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:39:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:39:16 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Andrea Campi Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Importing AFS / Arla in kernel In-Reply-To: <20011122104225.GC1600@webcom.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Andrea Campi wrote: > recently I've been working (on and off) with AFS, and in particular > trying to keep Arla working through all the changes (KSE etc), together > with assar@. Of course things would be much easier if the xfs module, > which is at the base of Arla, could be committed in the base kernel; > this way, while I'd be more than glad to act as maintainer for it and in > general handling major stuff, everybody would be able to help keep it in > good shape. Does this need a vote or something? If there are no strong > nay-sayers, I will file a PR with everything. The sources would be > imported in contrib, I already have all the module glue etc. I'm not > asking for commit access, assar would handle commits for me; having > access to both repositories, we would make sure changes will go to Arla > before, so sources will always be on vendor branch. > > I should probably mention again: this is not all of AFS, only the basic > kernel support. The rest will stay in ports, this just means better > support and easier updates. There's lots of existing precedent for this, including in the form of Coda, which uses a very similar model. Boasting out-of-the-box support for AFS also has its advantages :-). I'd be happy to do the commit-work fo this if Assar is otherwise occupied. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 14:46: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from Mail6.mgfairfax.rr.com (fe6.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307FC37B418 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:46:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cox.rr.com ([24.163.98.190]) by Mail6.mgfairfax.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:46:07 -0500 From: "Racing Dynamics sales department" To: Subject: Our new web site for car enthusists Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:48:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset = "us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: EBMailer 3.10 (www.ebmailer.com) Message-ID: <0586c07462218b1FE6@Mail6.mgfairfax.rr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Racing Dynamics is pleased to announce the complete redesign of our web site providing a complete line of high performance parts and styling accessories for BMW and Porsche automobiles. Our web site includes a complete catalog of these accessories and a secure 24 per day store to purchase any of these items. Please visit our site www.racdyn-usa.com or telephone us toll free at (800) 296-8881 If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, please reply to this e-mail with "Remove" in the subject field. You will be removed immediately. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 15: 8:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f24.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E308337B417 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:08:16 -0800 Received: from 142.165.97.92 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:08:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [142.165.97.92] From: "S y N > <" To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD 3.5.1 Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:08:16 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2001 23:08:16.0791 (UTC) FILETIME=[E673A270:01C1753C] Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I Am Looking For A List Of Supported Hardware For FreeBSD 3.5.1, If It Is At All Possible Would You Either Be Able To Send Me An Attached File In A Reply Or A Link To Where I Can Find A Printable List Of The Supported Hardware --Thank you _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Nov 24 15:26:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3813637B405; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id BC05A81D01; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:26:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:26:05 -0600 From: Bill Fumerola To: "S y N > <" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.5.1 Message-ID: <20011124172605.H81711@elvis.mu.org> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from s_y_n_x@hotmail.com on Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 05:08:16PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.4-FEARSOME-20010909 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ moved to -questions from -arch ] On Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 05:08:16PM -0600, S y N > < wrote: > I Am Looking For A List Of Supported Hardware For FreeBSD 3.5.1, If It Is At > All Possible Would You Either Be Able To Send Me An Attached File In A Reply > Or A Link To Where I Can Find A Printable List Of The Supported Hardware This Is The Wrong Mailing List To Ask Questions On. Please E-mail Questions@Freebsd.Org With Basic Freebsd Questions Or Read: http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.5R/notes.html This Page Lists The Supported Hardware For 3.5-Release. Since 3.5.1-Release Is A Security Update For 3.5-Release, The Supported Hardware Is The Same. -- - bill fumerola / fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org / billf@mu.org - my anger management counselor can beat up your self-affirmation therapist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message