From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 5:57:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B87537B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1BDvGU36876; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:57:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102111357.f1BDvGU36876@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Drew Derbyshire" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-Reply-To: <009c01c093e5$d1cd7230$94cba8c0@hh.kew.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:57:16 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Drew Derbyshire" wrote: > (Headers rigged to move follow ups to -chat ...) > > Since the FreeBSD site runs postfix, the fix to block external postings to > the announce list is a Postfix FAQ, using a regular expression filter. Ha! We've already been there and have gone way beyond that, is you are referring to the -outgoing aliases. We do not use them, so your "fix" is not relevant. (We did use it for a while in january last year, but we solved it completely since then) The problem was that majordomo was trusting the 'envelope from' address and checking it off from a list of approved addresses. (argh!) Regarding spam, the thought just occurred to me that we can catch a lot of it by checking that the list name appears in a To: or CC: line somewhere. eg: If mail to -current does not have '.*current@freebsd.org' in the To: or CC: line (most spam has got fakeuser@hotmail.com or something), then bounce it. I suspect that would catch almost all of the spam that currently slips through the content filters. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 6: 4: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8069037B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 06:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1BE41U37004; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 06:04:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102111404.f1BE41U37004@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 Cc: "Drew Derbyshire" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-Reply-To: <200102111357.f1BDvGU36876@mobile.wemm.org> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 06:04:01 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Wemm wrote: > "Drew Derbyshire" wrote: > > (Headers rigged to move follow ups to -chat ...) > > > > Since the FreeBSD site runs postfix, the fix to block external postings to > > the announce list is a Postfix FAQ, using a regular expression filter. > > Ha! We've already been there and have gone way beyond that, is you are > referring to the -outgoing aliases. We do not use them, so your "fix" > is not relevant. (We did use it for a while in january last year, but we > solved it completely since then) Argh, I just re-read your email again and you were saying something different to what I replied to. Oops. :-] Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 6:25:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kendra.ne.mediaone.net (kendra.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.227.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7646737B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 06:25:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from xena (xena.hh.kew.com [192.168.203.148]) by kendra.ne.mediaone.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7956F8C4F; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:25:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000801c09436$87ea54c0$94cba8c0@hh.kew.com> From: "Drew Derbyshire" To: "Peter Wemm" Cc: References: <200102111357.f1BDvGU36876@mobile.wemm.org> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:25:49 -0500 Organization: Kendra Electronic Wonderworks, Stoneham, MA 02180 (http://www.kew.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm referring to the -outgoing filter, but stating it should also be used on the -announce lists incoming. > Ha! We've already been there and have gone way beyond that, is you are > referring to the -outgoing aliases. We do not use them, so your "fix" > is not relevant. (We did use it for a while in january last year, but we > solved it completely since then) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 8: 5:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gray.westgate.gr (gray.westgate.gr [212.205.119.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D95437B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 08:05:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by gray.westgate.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1BG51P16754; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:05:01 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:05:01 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: David Schwartz Cc: Tony Finch , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Laugh: [Fwd: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-008] Message-ID: <20010211180501.A16714@gray.westgate.gr> References: <20010209205539.R461@hand.dotat.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from davids@webmaster.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 01:14:52PM -0800 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 01:14:52PM -0800, David Schwartz wrote: > > > David Schwartz wrote: > > > >Wasn't this the same company that obtained a C2 > > >certification for one of > > >there products providing that there was no network card in the box? > > > > No fdd either. > > > > Tony. > > Man. Were you allowed to have a power cord? I think you were allowed to have one, provided that it was not attached to the "unsecure" network of your local power-company. LOOOOOOL -- giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 8:40:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED4E37B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 08:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23514; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:38:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093644.04b5d5e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:38:31 -0700 To: Gregory Sutter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Good Registrar? Cc: Tyler K McGeorge , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010209004726.I656@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010207061015.04c99750@localhost> <000801c090f2$21b26a40$103b7c18@palisor.yi.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010207061015.04c99750@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:47 AM 2/9/2001, Gregory Sutter wrote: >They're also the largest spam house in the domain registration >business, in my experience. Interesting. We have a huge archive of spam (several hundred users' worth) and I can't find anything from them in it at all. We'd certainly reconsider using them if they were spamming. Do you have examples? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 8:42:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7316F37B503 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 08:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23493; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:36:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093529.04b4a9d0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:36:05 -0700 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Laugh: [Fwd: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-008] Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010209143121.J16260@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010208150641.A15166@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:01 PM 2/8/2001, Greg Lehey wrote: >"on" is masculine. Nope, it's neuter but uses masculine conjugations. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 9: 7:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8337337B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:07:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from xor.obsecurity.org ([63.207.60.67]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8L00GJ1RFE10@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:04:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by xor.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 86B4066B00; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:07:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 09:07:13 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-reply-to: <009c01c093e5$d1cd7230$94cba8c0@hh.kew.com>; from software@kew.com on Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 11:48:04PM -0500 To: Drew Derbyshire Cc: chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010211090713.B50667@mollari.cthul.hu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UHN/qo2QbUvPLonB" Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <200102082014.PAA29877@vws3.interlog.com> <009c01c093e5$d1cd7230$94cba8c0@hh.kew.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --UHN/qo2QbUvPLonB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 11:48:04PM -0500, Drew Derbyshire wrote: > Since the FreeBSD site runs postfix, the fix to block external postings to > the announce list is a Postfix FAQ, using a regular expression filter. This > would require direct trusted posters to go through a local (or otherwise > trusted IP), and cannot be beaten by forged headers. (Hint, hint!) It was a broken filter rule which allowed the mail in - this has been fixed. > In general, I'm amazed that after all the SPAM on the FreeBSD mailing lists > that they haven't gone to post-only-by subscribers in general -- clearly, > the maintainers don't seem to care about the lists's quality as much as some > of the subscribers do. Yes, yes, I've heard the "but we need to let any one > post ..." argument, and refuse to believe it given hackish nature of the > FreeBSD mailing lists, and general disdain for end-users. This is a blatant troll, IMO, so I'll ignore it. > (Linux will rule the world, because organizations like RedHat support > relatively clean binary patches using up2date between releases -- it makes > me sad when I compare this to FreeBSD securty advisories which offer choices > of source patches or "upgrade to Release 4.x-STABLE after the specified" > date, given that such configurations have a prereq of reading the -stable > mailing list and generally breathing FreeBSD.) Making binary patches is something we'd very much like to do, but it requires significant support and testing infrastructure, which no-one has come forward to provide so far. How sad does it make you? Sad enough to do something about it, or only a little bit sad so that you'll just complain about it but won't bother? Kris --UHN/qo2QbUvPLonB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6hsbAWry0BWjoQKURAoQiAKCaXxtwzSZPTWle/55GVuEkC1vqEgCg+IUB NOREy6BTG7ZXExUUp95UEDs= =G77v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UHN/qo2QbUvPLonB-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 15:50: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C8937B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:49:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 457DC6ACAD; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:19:26 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:19:26 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Generd in Indo-European languages (was: Laugh: [Fwd: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-008]) Message-ID: <20010212101926.E92080@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010208150641.A15166@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> <20010209143121.J16260@wantadilla.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093529.04b4a9d0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093529.04b4a9d0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 09:36:05AM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 11 February 2001 at 9:36:05 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 09:01 PM 2/8/2001, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> "on" is masculine. > > Nope, it's neuter but uses masculine conjugations. There is no neuter in French. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 16:12:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8524337B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:12:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C5F6957650; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:12:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:12:18 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Drew Derbyshire Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) Message-ID: <20010211181218.D19845@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <200102082014.PAA29877@vws3.interlog.com> <009c01c093e5$d1cd7230$94cba8c0@hh.kew.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <009c01c093e5$d1cd7230$94cba8c0@hh.kew.com>; from software@kew.com on Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 11:48:04PM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 11:48:04PM -0500, Drew Derbyshire scribbled: | (Headers rigged to move follow ups to -chat ...) | | Since the FreeBSD site runs postfix, the fix to block external postings to | the announce list is a Postfix FAQ, using a regular expression filter. This | would require direct trusted posters to go through a local (or otherwise | trusted IP), and cannot be beaten by forged headers. (Hint, hint!) It's a pretty good idea to only allow certain important postings from a certain IP, such as freefall.freebsd.org. :) | The belief that signing advisories sorts out the good from the bad is naive. | The negative impression is left on users when the reader realizes a bogus | post from an official mailing list is bogus in the first place. (Nor do | most mail clients support automatically decoding the key. Heck, I get | global whining for using any sort of MIME at all in mail.) | | In general, I'm amazed that after all the SPAM on the FreeBSD mailing lists | that they haven't gone to post-only-by subscribers in general -- clearly, | the maintainers don't seem to care about the lists's quality as much as some | of the subscribers do. Yes, yes, I've heard the "but we need to let any one | post ..." argument, and refuse to believe it given hackish nature of the | FreeBSD mailing lists, and general disdain for end-users. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Do you realize that you are making a generalizing, sweeping comment that is basically flame bait? | (Linux will rule the world, because organizations like RedHat support | relatively clean binary patches using up2date between releases -- it makes | me sad when I compare this to FreeBSD securty advisories which offer choices | of source patches or "upgrade to Release 4.x-STABLE after the specified" | date, given that such configurations have a prereq of reading the -stable | mailing list and generally breathing FreeBSD.) And, if I may ask, how do you ensure the synchronization of userland and kernel after a while? -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 16:26:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5E237B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1C0NxU42620; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:23:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102120023.f1C0NxU42620@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Drew Derbyshire" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-Reply-To: <000801c09436$87ea54c0$94cba8c0@hh.kew.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:23:59 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Drew Derbyshire" wrote: > I'm referring to the -outgoing filter, but stating it should also be used on > the -announce lists incoming. Well, for what its worth, both -announce and -security-notifications are moderated now (as of a day or two ago). They probably should have been all along rather than depending on the envelope from, but it is a bit late now. > > Ha! We've already been there and have gone way beyond that, is you are > > referring to the -outgoing aliases. We do not use them, so your "fix" > > is not relevant. (We did use it for a while in january last year, but we > > solved it completely since then) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 17:44:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06CF037B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f1C1hnh80854; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:43:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:43:48 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Peter Wemm Cc: Drew Derbyshire , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-Reply-To: <200102111357.f1BDvGU36876@mobile.wemm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Peter Wemm wrote: > Regarding spam, the thought just occurred to me that we can catch a lot > of it by checking that the list name appears in a To: or CC: line > somewhere. eg: If mail to -current does not have > '.*current@freebsd.org' in the To: or CC: line (most spam has got > fakeuser@hotmail.com or something), then bounce it. Hmm. I kind of liked being able to Bcc: lists, especially given that (last I checked) we had some magic somewhere to bound cross-posts. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 18:25:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD33D37B401; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:25:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1C2PAU43817; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:25:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102120225.f1C2PAU43817@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Robert Watson Cc: Drew Derbyshire , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:25:10 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Robert Watson wrote: > On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > Regarding spam, the thought just occurred to me that we can catch a lot > > of it by checking that the list name appears in a To: or CC: line > > somewhere. eg: If mail to -current does not have > > '.*current@freebsd.org' in the To: or CC: line (most spam has got > > fakeuser@hotmail.com or something), then bounce it. > > Hmm. I kind of liked being able to Bcc: lists, especially given that > (last I checked) we had some magic somewhere to bound cross-posts. Naturally. But I personally would rather being able to catch nearly all of the remainder of the spam. :-) The inconvenience of not being able to Bcc: would be (IMHO) a small price to pay. Besides: this would make life a little easier for the procmail folks if we could guarantee the headers were going to be there in To:/Cc:. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 18:36: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C30737B491 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:36:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1C2ZOP71330; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:35:24 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102120235.f1C2ZOP71330@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Peter Wemm Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:35:40 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: Drew Derbyshire , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <200102120225.f1C2PAU43817@mobile.wemm.org> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 11 Feb 2001, at 18:25, Peter Wemm wrote: > Besides: this would make life a little easier for the procmail folks if > we could guarantee the headers were going to be there in To:/Cc:. Isn't Sender enough for procmail folks? -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 18:56:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351CB37B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1C2uIU44205; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:56:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102120256.f1C2uIU44205@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: dan@langille.org Cc: Drew Derbyshire , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-Reply-To: <200102120235.f1C2ZOP71330@ns1.unixathome.org> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:56:18 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Dan Langille" wrote: > On 11 Feb 2001, at 18:25, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > Besides: this would make life a little easier for the procmail folks if > > we could guarantee the headers were going to be there in To:/Cc:. > > Isn't Sender enough for procmail folks? Depends on whether you want to have certain lists go to a folder even if you happened to get it first via a direct personal cc: instead of via the main list. This is very handy for lists that grow extended cc: lists. eg: something that has any reference to chat@freebsd.org in the To:/Cc: headers always goes in my chat folder, even if I got it directly. msgid.cache catches the duplicates, but I dont want *anything* chat related in my inbox. A Bcc: chat would escape that. :-) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 19:38:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4E437B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10802; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:37:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAdhaq2u; Sun Feb 11 20:36:54 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA18276; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:38:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102120338.UAA18276@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) To: peter@netplex.com.au (Peter Wemm) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 03:38:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dan@langille.org, software@kew.com (Drew Derbyshire), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200102120256.f1C2uIU44205@mobile.wemm.org> from "Peter Wemm" at Feb 11, 2001 06:56:18 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Depends on whether you want to have certain lists go to a folder even if > you happened to get it first via a direct personal cc: instead of via the > main list. This is very handy for lists that grow extended cc: lists. > > eg: something that has any reference to chat@freebsd.org in the To:/Cc: > headers always goes in my chat folder, even if I got it directly. > msgid.cache catches the duplicates, but I dont want *anything* chat related > in my inbox. A Bcc: chat would escape that. :-) So would rewriting the "To:" header to point to the list(s), and putting all non-list members in the original "To:" and "Cc:" on a rewritten "Cc:". Personally, I think that header rewriting is evil, even if it is perfectly RFC compliant to do it, but it would certainly fix your complaint. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 20: 3:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C511A37B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:03:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1C43KU44936; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:03:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102120403.f1C43KU44936@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Terry Lambert Cc: dan@langille.org, software@kew.com (Drew Derbyshire), chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-Reply-To: <200102120338.UAA18276@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:03:20 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > Depends on whether you want to have certain lists go to a folder even if > > you happened to get it first via a direct personal cc: instead of via the > > main list. This is very handy for lists that grow extended cc: lists. > > > > eg: something that has any reference to chat@freebsd.org in the To:/Cc: > > headers always goes in my chat folder, even if I got it directly. > > msgid.cache catches the duplicates, but I dont want *anything* chat related > > in my inbox. A Bcc: chat would escape that. :-) > > So would rewriting the "To:" header to point to the list(s), and > putting all non-list members in the original "To:" and "Cc:" on > a rewritten "Cc:". > > Personally, I think that header rewriting is evil, even if it > is perfectly RFC compliant to do it, but it would certainly fix > your complaint. No, it wouldn't. It would make the remaining spam harder to detect. That was the point. The procmail thing was a side track. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 11 21:14:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0FA437B401 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:14:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B32865920C; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:14:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:14:18 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Peter Wemm Cc: Terry Lambert , dan@langille.org, Drew Derbyshire , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) Message-ID: <20010211231418.A29622@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <200102120338.UAA18276@usr08.primenet.com> <200102120403.f1C43KU44936@mobile.wemm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102120403.f1C43KU44936@mobile.wemm.org>; from peter@netplex.com.au on Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 08:03:20PM -0800 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 08:03:20PM -0800, Peter Wemm scribbled: | Terry Lambert wrote: | > > Depends on whether you want to have certain lists go to a folder even if | > > you happened to get it first via a direct personal cc: instead of via the | > > main list. This is very handy for lists that grow extended cc: lists. | > > | > > eg: something that has any reference to chat@freebsd.org in the To:/Cc: | > > headers always goes in my chat folder, even if I got it directly. | > > msgid.cache catches the duplicates, but I dont want *anything* chat related | > > in my inbox. A Bcc: chat would escape that. :-) I usually use this line to catch the mail...:) And if the mail is Cc:'ed to me, it goes to my own mailbox as well as the list mailbox.. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Feb 11 21:40:34 2001 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 3:53:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (smtp.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6AD37B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 03:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.99.164]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010212115321.EWVZ13130.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:53:21 -0500 Received: (from tim@localhost) by sympatico.ca (8.9.3/8.9.1) id GAA63122 for chat@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:54:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from tim) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:54:51 -0500 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD presentations Message-ID: <20010212065451.A62983@sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm looking for any past public presentation notes/slides on FreeBSD that someone would be willing to let me crib notes from. topics particularly of interest: 1) history 2) future/ongoing developments (general wrt the development environment, some specifics wrt kernel architecture would be good) 3) as compared to Linux from a user (not a kernel) perspective. Thanks, -- If I could think of a two-line witty aphorism for you to remember me by, this would definitely be it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 6: 2:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B499237B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:02:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.17.1.121] (warp-core.skynet.be [195.238.2.25]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.09) with ESMTP id f1CE1pV21642; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:01:51 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010209085026.009e28e0@mail85.pair.com> References: <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3.0.6.32.20010209085026.009e28e0@mail85.pair.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:05:27 +0000 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Gender in Indo-European languages Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 8:50 AM -0600 2001/2/9, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > She even claimed that English was the original > language of mankind, then forgotten, and now being rediscovered. And > this crap came out of a major US publishing house. How about the US Senator who claimed, on the Senate floor: If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for me! -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 8: 1:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fling.sanbi.ac.za (fling.sanbi.ac.za [196.38.142.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0543637B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from johann by fling.sanbi.ac.za with local (Exim 3.13 #4) id 14SLPf-000B64-00; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:01:15 +0200 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:01:15 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: Peter Wemm Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) Message-ID: <20010212180115.A42554@fling.sanbi.ac.za> References: <009c01c093e5$d1cd7230$94cba8c0@hh.kew.com> <200102111357.f1BDvGU36876@mobile.wemm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102111357.f1BDvGU36876@mobile.wemm.org>; from peter@netplex.com.au on Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 05:57:16AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Wemm on 2001-02-11 (Sun) at 05:57:16 -0800: > > Regarding spam, the thought just occurred to me that we can catch a lot of > it by checking that the list name appears in a To: or CC: line somewhere. > eg: If mail to -current does not have '.*current@freebsd.org' in the To: or > CC: line (most spam has got fakeuser@hotmail.com or something), then bounce > it. > > I suspect that would catch almost all of the spam that currently slips > through the content filters. My own very subjective experience (i.e. I didn't try to keep any hard stats) on the lists I run is that this is good for catching probably 95% or more of current spam. Let's hope the authors of mass mailers don't get wise to this. :-/ -- Johann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 8:59:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672F237B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:59:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1CGxLU51894; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102121659.f1CGxLU51894@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Brad Knowles Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gender in Indo-European languages In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:59:21 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brad Knowles wrote: > At 8:50 AM -0600 2001/2/9, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > > > She even claimed that English was the original > > language of mankind, then forgotten, and now being rediscovered. And > > this crap came out of a major US publishing house. > > How about the US Senator who claimed, on the Senate floor: > > If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good > enough for me! Oh dear! I have not had this good a laugh in a long while! Thanks! :-) Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 9: 5:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BAA37B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:05:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1CH4qU51986; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:04:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102121704.f1CH4qU51986@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Johann Visagie Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) In-Reply-To: <20010212180115.A42554@fling.sanbi.ac.za> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:04:52 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Johann Visagie wrote: > Peter Wemm on 2001-02-11 (Sun) at 05:57:16 -0800: > > > > Regarding spam, the thought just occurred to me that we can catch a lot of > > it by checking that the list name appears in a To: or CC: line somewhere. > > eg: If mail to -current does not have '.*current@freebsd.org' in the To: or > > CC: line (most spam has got fakeuser@hotmail.com or something), then bounce > > it. > > > > I suspect that would catch almost all of the spam that currently slips > > through the content filters. > > My own very subjective experience (i.e. I didn't try to keep any hard stats) > on the lists I run is that this is good for catching probably 95% or more of > current spam. > > Let's hope the authors of mass mailers don't get wise to this. :-/ They cannot.. That would require them to send out individual copies of email, each personalized. That means they cannot use open smtp relays to send a single envelope to 10000+ recipients. All the "send a million an hour" stuff goes out the window and they are then forced into a MUCH slower transmission rate at lockstep SMTP speeds.. Which is the point. It becomes much more difficult to send in bulk, so they have to be a lot more careful about their targeting. A casual 'blast email to 60 million email addresses' style mass mailing becomes utterly impractical if you cannot amplify via open relays. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 13:31:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (rh25.bfm.org [216.127.220.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3C737B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id PAA00368; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:31:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:31:35 -0600 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Brad Knowles Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gender in Indo-European languages Message-ID: <20010212153135.A352@whizkidtech.net> References: <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3.0.6.32.20010209085026.009e28e0@mail85.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from brad.knowles@skynet.be on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 01:05:27PM +0000 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-Assembly-Language: http://int80h.org/ X-Web-Search: http://phonecowboy.master.com/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 01:05:27PM +0000, Brad Knowles wrote: > How about the US Senator who claimed, on the Senate floor: > > If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good > enough for me! Hehe. As Mark Twain said: Suppose you were an idiot. Suppose you were a member of Congress. But I'm repeating myself... -- Can you imagine the silence if everyone said only what he knows! -- Karel Èapek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 13:40:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lurkie.xs4all.nl (lurkie.xs4all.nl [194.109.236.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB6037B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by lurkie.xs4all.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f1CLepf03910 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:40:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from freebsd) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:40:51 +0100 From: Marc Veldman To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gender in Indo-European languages Message-ID: <20010212224051.A3669@lurkie.xs4all.nl> References: <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3.0.6.32.20010209085026.009e28e0@mail85.pair.com> <20010212153135.A352@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010212153135.A352@whizkidtech.net>; from adam@whizkidtech.net on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 03:31:35PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Isn't this a fortune ? (Not quite the same text. Something with a texas governor......) > > How about the US Senator who claimed, on the Senate floor: > > > > If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good > > enough for me! > -- =========================================================================== Get off the keyboard you furry feline ! Marc Veldman, CFBSDN (Certified FreeBSD Newbie) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 13:44:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts5.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 469FF37B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sympatico.ca ([64.228.120.83]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010212214406.NTIG15955.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:44:06 -0500 Received: (from tim@localhost) by sympatico.ca (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA68999 for chat@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:45:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from tim) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:45:40 -0500 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD presentations Message-ID: <20010212164540.A68951@sympatico.ca> References: <20010212065451.A62983@sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <20010212065451.A62983@sympatico.ca>; from Tim Vanderhoek on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 06:54:51AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 06:54:51AM -0500, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > topics particularly of interest: And I should have mentioned, for 1000X bonus marks, anything to do with FreeBSD and aerospace. I remember a thread entitled "FreeBSD goes to Mars" and I'm currently trolling the list archives for that. So far I've found managed to find a posting to -hackers by Julian Assange about the use of VxWorks in the Mars Pathfinder. Anything that makes the relationship to FreeBSD more obvious or anything that is more recent would be great. -- If I could think of a two-line witty aphorism for you to remember me by, this would definitely be it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 14:15:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB8037B4EC for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10631; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:15:33 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010212144834.04623400@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:50:42 -0700 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , Brad Knowles From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Gender in Indo-European languages Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010212153135.A352@whizkidtech.net> References: <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3.0.6.32.20010209085026.009e28e0@mail85.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:31 PM 2/12/2001, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: >Hehe. As Mark Twain said: > > Suppose you were an idiot. > Suppose you were a member of Congress. > But I'm repeating myself... Surely you've heard of the new distributed computing project, STIC@Home (Search for Terrestrial Intelligence in Congress)? Millions of computers will work day and night, scanning the Congressional Record for some sort of coherent signal.... --Brett "For every action there is an equal and opposite government program." --Bob Wells To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 14:16:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920F037B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10627; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:15:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010212144713.046424e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:47:43 -0700 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Generd in Indo-European languages (was: Laugh: [Fwd: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-008]) Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010212101926.E92080@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093529.04b4a9d0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010208150641.A15166@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> <20010209143121.J16260@wantadilla.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093529.04b4a9d0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:49 PM 2/11/2001, Greg Lehey wrote: >There is no neuter in French. Oh? Then, what's the feminine of "on?" --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 14:42:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6759B37B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:42:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 185446ACC7; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:12:29 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:12:29 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Generd in Indo-European languages (was: Laugh: [Fwd: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-008]) Message-ID: <20010213091228.A47700@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010208150641.A15166@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> <20010209143121.J16260@wantadilla.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093529.04b4a9d0@localhost> <20010212101926.E92080@wantadilla.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010212144713.046424e0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010212144713.046424e0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 02:47:43PM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 12 February 2001 at 14:47:43 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 04:49 PM 2/11/2001, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> There is no neuter in French. > > Oh? Then, what's the feminine of "on?" On. I've just checked the dictionary: ON pron. indéf. (lat. homo, homme) [toujours sujet]. ... REM. 1. L'accord peut se faire au féminin et au pluriel. "On est elegante aujourd'hui ! On est tous égaux devant la loi." In other words, it can be used as masculine, feminine, singular or plural, though the second example is interesting because the verb is singular and the adjective is plural. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 15: 5:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r36.bfm.org [216.127.220.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D676337B503 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:05:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id RAA00277; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:05:50 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:05:18 -0600 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gender in Indo-European languages Message-ID: <20010212170518.A261@whizkidtech.net> References: <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010209095838.E11145@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3.0.6.32.20010209085026.009e28e0@mail85.pair.com> <20010212153135.A352@whizkidtech.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010212144834.04623400@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010212144834.04623400@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 02:50:42PM -0700 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-Assembly-Language: http://int80h.org/ X-Web-Search: http://phonecowboy.master.com/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 3.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 02:50:42PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: >Surely you've heard of the new distributed computing >project, STIC@Home (Search for Terrestrial Intelligence in >Congress)? Millions of computers will work day and night, >scanning the Congressional Record for some sort of coherent >signal.... That explains why certain states are running out of electricity. Adam -- Can you imagine the silence if everyone said only what he knows! -- Karel Èapek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 17:39:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-67.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A3137B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3B81566B34; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:39:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:39:18 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Tim Vanderhoek Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD presentations Message-ID: <20010212173917.A41657@mollari.cthul.hu> References: <20010212065451.A62983@sympatico.ca> <20010212164540.A68951@sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="envbJBWh7q8WU6mo" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010212164540.A68951@sympatico.ca>; from vanderh@ecf.utoronto.ca on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 04:45:40PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --envbJBWh7q8WU6mo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 04:45:40PM -0500, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 06:54:51AM -0500, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > >=20 > > topics particularly of interest: >=20 > And I should have mentioned, for 1000X bonus marks, anything to > do with FreeBSD and aerospace. Well, I know from other list traffic that BSD is used a lot at NASA.. Kris --envbJBWh7q8WU6mo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6iJBFWry0BWjoQKURAqECAKCB7Iqqbe4hxgP/7+7n0TFXj+70XACeI0xJ A6zR/XldO4tGCccTC9StkIY= =kETS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --envbJBWh7q8WU6mo-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 18:21:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C0D37B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.05) id AAED51702D0; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:24:45 -0800 Message-ID: <3A889AEA.E29D014C@wiegand.org> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:24:42 -0800 From: Chip X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "chat@freebsd.org" Subject: Newsgroup primer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have seen it posted before and no longer have the url, can someone point me to the documentation for newbies on proper newsgroup usage? I'd like to send to a particular person at the UW. It covered all aspects of newsgroup/listserv usage, including top- posting (a no-no), responding to multiple groups, etc. Thankyou, -- Chip Wiegand Alternative Operating Systems www.wiegand.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 12 23: 0:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fling.sanbi.ac.za (fling.sanbi.ac.za [196.38.142.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8BB637B491 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:00:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from johann by fling.sanbi.ac.za with local (Exim 3.13 #4) id 14SZRQ-0000cG-00; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:00:00 +0200 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:00:00 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: Peter Wemm Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) Message-ID: <20010213090000.A2319@fling.sanbi.ac.za> References: <20010212180115.A42554@fling.sanbi.ac.za> <200102121704.f1CH4qU51986@mobile.wemm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102121704.f1CH4qU51986@mobile.wemm.org>; from peter@netplex.com.au on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 09:04:52AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Wemm on 2001-02-12 (Mon) at 09:04:52 -0800: > > > Let's hope the authors of mass mailers don't get wise to this. :-/ > > They cannot.. That would require them to send out individual copies of > email, each personalized. That means they cannot use open smtp relays to > send a single envelope to 10000+ recipients. Of course... very valid point! -- Johann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 0:18:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD6437B4EC for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CDAD3239AAC; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:18:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:18:16 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good Registrar? Message-ID: <20010213001816.M656@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010207061015.04c99750@localhost> <000801c090f2$21b26a40$103b7c18@palisor.yi.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010207061015.04c99750@localhost> <20010209004726.I656@klapaucius.zer0.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093644.04b5d5e0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="jI8keyz6grp/JLjh" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093644.04b5d5e0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 09:38:31AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On 2001-02-11 09:38 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:47 AM 2/9/2001, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > >They're also the largest spam house in the domain registration > >business, in my experience. > > Interesting. We have a huge archive of spam (several hundred > users' worth) and I can't find anything from them in it at > all. We'd certainly reconsider using them if they were spamming. > Do you have examples? I seem to be mistaken. I have only one spam from directNic. There is a registrar that blatantly spams, but I can't remember what it is. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Heisenberg might have been here. mailto:gsutter@zer0.org http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: directNic spam Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=foo From iaminheavan@yahoo.com Sun May 14 02:47:06 2000 Received: from growl.pobox.com (growl.pobox.com [208.210.124.27]) by azazel.zer0.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA61595 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 02:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from iaminheavan@yahoo.com) From: iaminheavan@yahoo.com Received: by growl.pobox.com (Postfix, from userid 18) id 4E8EB127E8; Sun, 14 May 2000 05:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 64.39.31.11 (jl.x2z.com [64.39.31.11]) by growl.pobox.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 56E3B12A35 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 05:47:41 -0400 (EDT) To: gsutter@pobox.com Subject: $15 per year domain registration Message-Id: <20000514094741.56E3B12A35@growl.pobox.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 05:47:41 -0400 (EDT) X-junkfilter: 20000313 X-Spammer: 3: Message-Id added after initial transmission Status: RO Content-Length: 2214 Lines: 47 Are you spending $35 - $70 for domain registration? Would you benefit from a service offering domain registrations at $15 per year, without any hidden costs? Then Register your domain through directNIC for only $15 per year!! Their prices drop to as low as $10.25 per domain with prepaid quantity discounts! directNIC at http://directNIC.com/?cheapdomains offers the same registration service as other domain registrars at less than half of the cost. Nevertheless, your directNIC domain is every bit as valid as one registered elsewhere. No hidden fees. Domain registration for $15 per year. Register the length of time you want to keep your domain (1-10 years). There is no 2 year minimum. No Nameserver? Use their's at no extra charge. Change your domain information quickly and easily through their secure web interface. directNIC also offers free domain parking and free domain redirection services. Click here http://directNIC.com/?cheapdomains . Still not interested? Even if you can't think of any domain names that you would like to register, you should check out their latest FREE product Linguatron! This FREE service is the most advanced domain name mining tool ever conceived. This tool allows you to enter in one term to check for domain availability. When Linguatron checks the availability of the term it also checks hundreds of conceptually related terms as well. The quality of the available domain results from Linguatron will amaze you. Linguatron is a cross between a directory of available domain names and a search engine of available domain names. You will be surprised at how many quality domains are still available. Check out Linguatron today at http://directNIC.com/?cheapdomains . While many domain registrars are content with maintaining the status quo, directNIC is setting itself apart by offering dirt cheap domain registrations and FREE innovative services to all of their users at http://directNIC.com/?cheapdomains . Register your domains at http://directNIC.com/?cheapdomains and save $$! You can also use directNIC to redirect your domain to any web site (URL) on the Internet. You can even make money with your account and become a reseller for directNIC! --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 3:45:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAABA37B491 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:45:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.17.1.121] (warp-core.skynet.be [195.238.2.25]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.10) with ESMTP id f1DBijq17601; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:44:45 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010213090000.A2319@fling.sanbi.ac.za> References: <20010212180115.A42554@fling.sanbi.ac.za> <200102121704.f1CH4qU51986@mobile.wemm.org> <20010213090000.A2319@fling.sanbi.ac.za> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:38:57 +0000 To: Johann Visagie , Peter Wemm From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: FreeBSD Postfix and Majordomo security (was FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 9:00 AM +0200 2001/2/13, Johann Visagie wrote: >> They cannot.. That would require them to send out individual copies of >> email, each personalized. That means they cannot use open smtp relays to >> send a single envelope to 10000+ recipients. > > Of course... very valid point! Sadly, I'm getting more and more personalized spam these days. Since a mailing list still offers a valid amplification method, this is still a very real attack that we need to keep in mind. We may not see a lot of it today, but I assure you that spammers will start using this mechanism more and more, as other avenues become less friendly to them. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 5:46:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4324037B491 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 05:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA95283; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:46:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Greg Lehey Cc: Mathew KANNER , Rahul Siddharthan , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Indo-European Grammar (was: Laugh: [Fwd: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-008]) References: <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010208150641.A15166@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> <20010209143121.J16260@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20010209153743.D18596@cs.mcgill.ca> <20010210100926.P16260@wantadilla.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 13 Feb 2001 14:46:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:09:26 +1030" Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Friday, 9 February 2001 at 15:37:43 -0500, Mathew KANNER wrote: > > Really? I have a vague memory of being taught that it was > > used when the speaker is referring to a group of people, which he is a > > member of -- no inference on the makeup of the group nor speaker can > > be made, Much like "we" in English. > You can use it like that as well, unlike "one" in English. Not grammatically correct, though very common in daily speech. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 6:58: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5490837B491 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 06:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20620; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:57:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010213075440.049ad150@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:57:41 -0700 To: Gregory Sutter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Good Registrar? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010213001816.M656@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093644.04b5d5e0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010207061015.04c99750@localhost> <000801c090f2$21b26a40$103b7c18@palisor.yi.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010207061015.04c99750@localhost> <20010209004726.I656@klapaucius.zer0.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093644.04b5d5e0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:18 AM 2/13/2001, Gregory Sutter wrote: >I seem to be mistaken. I have only one spam from directNic. There >is a registrar that blatantly spams, but I can't remember what it is. I think you probably mean this joker. I normally wouldn't post a spam to a mailing list, but this one makes such ludicrous claims that it has redeeming value as unintended parody. --Brett >From: jean@internetmarketingdirect.com >Received: from mail pickup service by mail.internetmarketingdirect.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; > Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:38:03 -0700 >To: >Subject: .biz, .info new domain news >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:38:02 -0700 > >This is an opt-in e-mail from InternetMarketingDirect.com >If you feel you have received this e-mail in error >and do not wish to receive offers from our clients, >please click here >http://InternetMarketingDirect.com/remove.asp > > > >Take advantage of the best domain pre-registration services for >the new top level domains of .Biz, .Info, .Pro, and .Name >domain names and join an aggressive affiliate program to earn 15% > >I am pleased to announce the launch of >http://www.preregisteryourdomains.com > >It is expected that over 3 million of the new domain names will be >registered in the first minutes when they become available early >this year. This will be the largest virtual real estate land grab in >history. > >The race is on! > >You can try to get a great name like Medical.info or Monkey.biz but you will >be competing with some stiff competition, like these folks. > >http://www.preregisteryourdomains.com has built the premier submission >service engine to help you to protect or procure your Internet identity. > >For those of you who don't like to wait online, or realize that their >Ferrari (well actually Intel) engine will increase your odds of getting or >protecting your domain name then those on foot, please think about using >this service. > >It's all about speed and right now the database queue is awaiting the best >names, so get creative :) > >Desire to capitalize on this opportunity, please join the affiliate program >and earn 15% commission on all submission sales. It's simple and it's free >to join, all you need to do is put a link on your site and they do the rest. > >Please visit http://www.preregisteryourdomains.com to learn more. > >Thank you for your time. > >Jean Newman >independent Affiliate for http://www.preregisteryourdomains.com > >-------------------------------------------------------- > > >This is an opt-in e-mail from InternetMarketingDirect.com >If you feel you have received this e-mail by mistake >and do not wish to receive offers from our clients, >please click here >http://InternetMarketingDirect.com >This mail is in accordance with the California Business & Professions Code >section 17538.4 and 17538.45 which you can view at >Caslaw.findlaw.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 11:13: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A338037B491 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:13:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2E3F3239AAC; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:13:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:13:00 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Good Registrar? Message-ID: <20010213111300.E32793@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093644.04b5d5e0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010207061015.04c99750@localhost> <000801c090f2$21b26a40$103b7c18@palisor.yi.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010207061015.04c99750@localhost> <20010209004726.I656@klapaucius.zer0.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010211093644.04b5d5e0@localhost> <20010213001816.M656@klapaucius.zer0.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010213075440.049ad150@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010213075440.049ad150@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 07:57:41AM -0700 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On 2001-02-13 07:57 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:18 AM 2/13/2001, Gregory Sutter wrote: > > >I seem to be mistaken. I have only one spam from directNic. There > >is a registrar that blatantly spams, but I can't remember what it is. > > I think you probably mean this joker. I normally wouldn't post a > spam to a mailing list, but this one makes such ludicrous claims > that it has redeeming value as unintended parody. Oh yeah, I remember now who it is. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?" mailto:gsutter@zer0.org "You uudecode it." http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?" hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: gsutter@zer0.org Received: from mate.pobox.com (mate.pobox.com [208.210.124.44]) by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A59239AAE for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 08:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mate.pobox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mate.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08A67A197 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from bm0-3.e-dialog.com (bm2-0.e-dialog.com [64.28.75.169]) by mate.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662417A1DF for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:07:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from e-dialog.com (mf0-s0.e-dialog.com [10.200.3.110]) by bm0-3.e-dialog.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15350 for gsutter@pobox.com; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:07:28 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:07:28 -0500 Message-Id: <200102131607.LAA15350@bm0-3.e-dialog.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-_-_-_-_-_1234567890" Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "Network Solutions" To: gsutter@pobox.com Subject: Get your .tv domain name before someone else does! X-Mailer: EDMAIL R6.00.02 X-Types: 1001 Sender: dotTV_domains.fail.128@mail-router.e-dialog.com X-junkfilter: 20001130 X-Spammer: domains: e-dialog.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ---_-_-_-_-_1234567890 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Gregory, .tv domain names are going fast! Register one now from Network Solutions! http://offer.networksolutions.com/go/t1/dotTV2/tvdomain/?nts8.1-261670 The Internet is continuously evolving. Many sites that began with simple, text-based pages are now utilizing the unlimited capacities of streaming video, audio, and real time technologies. With .tv, you can get a Web address that instantly tells the world you're part of the new generation of online experiences So don't delay. Great names are still available, but they're going fast! Be a part of the next big thing on the Web with a .tv domain name. ONLY $50 TO REGISTER A GREAT .TV NAME! Click here to get yours: http://offer.networksolutions.com/go/t2/dotTV2/tvdomain2/?nts8.2-261670 Network Solutions A VeriSign Company ------------------------------------------------------------- If you do not wish to receive e-mail promotions from Network Solutions, click on the following link: http://info.nsi-direct.com/unsub1/27/2/17/1/261670/NS/Z3N1dHRlckBwb2JveC5jb20%3D/ or simply reply to this message with the word "Remove" in the subject line. Please do not respond to this message unless you wish to unsubscribe. For any Network Solutions customer service inquiries, please e-mail us through the following link: http://offer.networksolutions.com/go/t3/dotTV2/contactus/?nts8.3-261670 Any replies to this message, other than unsubscribe requests, will not receive a response. Copyright(C) 2001 Network Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved. ---_-_-_-_-_1234567890 Content-Type: text/html Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Gregory,

.tv domain names are going fast! Register one now
from Network Solutions!

http://offer.networksolutions.com/go/d1/dotTV2/tvdomain/?nts8.1-261670

The Internet is continuously evolving. Many sites
that began with simple, text-based pages are now
utilizing the unlimited capacities of streaming video,
audio, and real time technologies. With .tv, you can
get a Web address that instantly tells the world you're
part of the new generation of online experiences

So don't delay. Great names are still available, but
they're going fast! Be a part of the next big thing on
the Web with a .tv domain name.

ONLY $50 TO REGISTER A GREAT .TV NAME!
Click here to get yours:
http://offer.networksolutions.com/go/d2/dotTV2/tvdomain2/?nts8.2-261670

Network Solutions
A VeriSign Company

-------------------------------------------------------------
If you do not wish to receive e-mail promotions from
Network Solutions, click on the following link:
http://info.nsi-direct.com/unsub1/27/2/17/1/261670/NS/Z3N1dHRlckBwb2JveC5jb20%3D/
or simply reply to this message with the word "Remove"
in the subject line.

Please do not respond to this message unless you wish to
unsubscribe. For any Network Solutions customer service
inquiries, please e-mail us through the following link:
http://offer.networksolutions.com/go/d3/dotTV2/contactus/?nts8.3-261670

Any replies to this message, other than unsubscribe
requests, will not receive a response.

Copyright© 2001 Network Solutions, Inc. All rights
reserved.
---_-_-_-_-_1234567890-- --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 11:34:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from desh.cse.iitd.ernet.in (mailer.cse.iitd.ac.in [202.141.68.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA0737B4EC for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from cse.iitd.ernet.in (root@kalyan.cse.iitd.ernet.in [10.20.14.20]) by desh.cse.iitd.ernet.in (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA04894 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 00:45:31 +0530 Received: from localhost (csu96154@localhost) by cse.iitd.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06100 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:29:07 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: kalyan.cse.iitd.ernet.in: csu96154 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:29:07 +0530 (IST) From: Rakhesh Sasidharan X-Sender: csu96154@kalyan.cse.iitd.ernet.in To: "chat@FreeBSD.org" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, What is the link below supposed to contain ? ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/.0/4.4BSD-Lite/ I checked it up, and it was two tgz files, and two directories of the same name. Are these the 4.4BSD-Lite{1,2} sources or something ? And if so, are they of any use, or just kept there for historical purposes ? Just asking. :) Regards. __ Rakhesh Sasidharan rakhesh at cse.iitd.ac.in To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 12: 7:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD2537B4EC for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A1DAC6ACC7; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 06:37:35 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 06:37:35 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Mathew KANNER , Rahul Siddharthan , "G. Adam Stanislav" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Indo-European Grammar (was: Laugh: [Fwd: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-008]) Message-ID: <20010214063735.N30961@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3A81DDC9.EF6D7D84@originative.co.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010207223155.009d42a0@mail85.pair.com> <20010208110159.E2429@lpt.ens.fr> <20010208150641.A15166@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010208193726.04763b10@localhost> <20010209143121.J16260@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20010209153743.D18596@cs.mcgill.ca> <20010210100926.P16260@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 02:46:24PM +0100 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 13 February 2001 at 14:46:24 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> On Friday, 9 February 2001 at 15:37:43 -0500, Mathew KANNER wrote: >>> Really? I have a vague memory of being taught that it was >>> used when the speaker is referring to a group of people, which he is a >>> member of -- no inference on the makeup of the group nor speaker can >>> be made, Much like "we" in English. >> You can use it like that as well, unlike "one" in English. > > Not grammatically correct, though very common in daily speech. Larousse lists it with the prefix "familièrement". Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 13:25: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web12504.mail.yahoo.com (web12504.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C8C7F37B491 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:25:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20010213212501.50586.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.237.35.38] by web12504.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:25:01 PST Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:25:01 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler McGeorge Reply-To: treznor@sunflower.com Subject: Re: To: Rakhesh Sasidharan , "chat@FreeBSD.org" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes, there are openly distributed for those who would either like to know more about UNIX (kinda like demonstration models) or people who would like to model their own UNIX from a "bare-bones" system. Either way, unless you want to develop a system, they are mearly for nostalgia. --- Rakhesh Sasidharan wrote: > > Hi, > > What is the link below supposed to contain ? > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/.0/4.4BSD-Lite/ > > I checked it up, and it was two tgz files, and two > directories of the same > name. Are these the 4.4BSD-Lite{1,2} sources or > something ? And if so, > are they of any use, or just kept there for > historical purposes ? Just > asking. :) > > Regards. > > __ > Rakhesh Sasidharan rakhesh at cse.iitd.ac.in > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the > message > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 13 18: 1:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web1604.mail.yahoo.com (web1604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8ED4337B491 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:01:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 5080 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2001 02:01:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20010214020152.5079.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [131.181.127.39] by web1604.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:01:52 PST Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:01:52 -0800 (PST) From: Haikal Saadh Subject: Broadband downunder To: chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone got recommendations for a high bandwidth internet provider in Brisbane? I'm finally moving into a house with enough people to be able to afford cable/ADSL. Anyone already using these services? And most importantly, who gives FreeBSD friendly hardware/service? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 14 3:35:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns5.pacific.net.au (ns5.pacific.net.au [203.143.252.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5EB837B401 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 03:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from dungeon.home (ppp84.dyn248.pacific.net.au [203.143.248.84]) by ns5.pacific.net.au (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15335; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:35:30 +1100 (EST) Received: from dungeon.home (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dungeon.home (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1EBatG18850; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:36:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from mckay) Message-Id: <200102141136.f1EBatG18850@dungeon.home> To: Haikal Saadh Cc: chat@freebsd.org, mckay@thehub.com.au Subject: Re: Broadband downunder References: <20010214020152.5079.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20010214020152.5079.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> from Haikal Saadh at "Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:01:52 +0000" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:36:55 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 14th February 2001, Haikal Saadh wrote: >Anyone got recommendations for a high bandwidth >internet provider in Brisbane? I also want the answer to this one. >I'm finally moving into >a house with enough people to be able to afford >cable/ADSL. Anyone already using these services? A friend of mine has been without an operational telephone for about 10 days now because he ordered Telstra ADSL and Telstra bollocksed the job. >And most importantly, who gives FreeBSD friendly hardware/service? Ha! Ha! (Wipes tears from eyes.) Nobody who sells cable or ADSL in Australia officially supports non-M$ operating systems. As far as I know they even shaft the Mac users. The usual deal is to pretend to be an avid Windoze user while the technician is there, then plug the network into your unix cluster when they've left. The exact details on how to connect from FreeBSD or Linux vary, and I don't currently know any details. Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 14 4: 1:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BD8037B4EC for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA99834; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:01:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Stephen McKay Cc: Haikal Saadh , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Broadband downunder References: <20010214020152.5079.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> <200102141136.f1EBatG18850@dungeon.home> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Feb 2001 13:01:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: Stephen McKay's message of "Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:36:55 +1000" Message-ID: Lines: 20 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stephen McKay writes: > Nobody who sells cable or ADSL in Australia officially supports non-M$ > operating systems. As far as I know they even shaft the Mac users. > > The usual deal is to pretend to be an avid Windoze user while the > technician is there, then plug the network into your unix cluster > when they've left. The exact details on how to connect from FreeBSD > or Linux vary, and I don't currently know any details. Heh. Norwegian cable providers also officially insist on Windows, but IRL they're happy as clams to have the customer install the network adapter and drivers himself, as long as he doesn't come whining to them if it doesn't work. As for ADSL, the provider from which I've ordered my line (not installed yet) says you can use anything you want as long as it talks TCP/IP over Ethernet. They're happy to draw the line between "mine" and "yours" at the router. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 14 12: 4:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD72A37B4EC for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:04:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12212; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:04:35 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010214130312.04996140@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:04:22 -0700 To: Haikal Saadh , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Broadband downunder In-Reply-To: <20010214020152.5079.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Try apana.org.au. I hear they use FreeBSD. If they can't help you directly, they can give you advice.... --Brett At 07:01 PM 2/13/2001, Haikal Saadh wrote: >Anyone got recommendations for a high bandwidth >internet provider in Brisbane? I'm finally moving into >a house with enough people to be able to afford >cable/ADSL. Anyone already using these services? And >most importantly, who gives FreeBSD friendly hardware/service? > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 >a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 14 19:14:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from spitfire.velocet.net (spitfire.velocet.net [209.167.225.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2015A37B401 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from david.thecafe.ca (H178.C193.tor.velocet.net [216.138.193.178]) by spitfire.velocet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F007C19A045 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:14:32 -0500 (EST) From: David To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: What about S. America ( was-Broadband downunder) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:16:50 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01021422165000.00489@david.thecafe.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Seeing as the topic on highspeed access has been brought up, I thought I would ask this here. Does anyone know of any highspeed avalability in South America-- Specifically, i'm looking at Peru? I've heard of a new fibre trunk-line being installed directly to Peru but as yet have heard of no other services beside's dial up. Even a Sat linkup would be just dandy, especially in the Urubamba valley. Thanks David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 14 19:32: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B6537B4EC for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1401"@[136.142.89.21]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K047KWYUF8009WG6@mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu> for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:32:00 EST Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:46:37 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: Re: What about S. America ( was-Broadband downunder) To: David Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <3A8B511D.596317CB@pitt.edu> Organization: University of Pittsburgh MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------816CEEAE7EFD407D1D949D2F" X-Accept-Language: en,pdf,es-CO References: <01021422165000.00489@david.thecafe.ca> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------816CEEAE7EFD407D1D949D2F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FWIW, I know Colombia very well (in fact I'll be there this Spring Break). Colombia's Telecom has an undersea fiber with the US. They are expensive but they are the best. Just about anyone offers satellite there. Pedro. David wrote: > > Seeing as the topic on highspeed access has been brought up, I thought > I would ask this here. Does anyone know of any highspeed avalability in > South America-- Specifically, i'm looking at Peru? > > I've heard of a new fibre trunk-line being installed directly to Peru > but as yet have heard of no other services beside's dial up. > > Even a Sat linkup would be just dandy, especially in the Urubamba > valley. > > Thanks > David > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message --------------816CEEAE7EFD407D1D949D2F Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="pfg1.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pedro F. Giffuni Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pfg1.vcf" begin:vcard n:Giffuni;Pedro tel;fax:1 (360) 343-0501 tel;home:(412) 665 2956 tel;work:(412) 624-9862 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.geocities.com/giffunip/ org:University of Pittsburgh;Industrial Engineering adr:;;5820 Elwood St. Apt. 34;Pittsburgh;PA;15232;USA version:2.1 email;internet:giffunip@asme.org title:Teaching Assistant fn:Pedro F. Giffuni end:vcard --------------816CEEAE7EFD407D1D949D2F-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 14 19:55: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B236637B4EC for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.42]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA74574; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:54:52 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:54:52 -0600 (CST) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-3.enteract.com To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Stephen McKay , Haikal Saadh , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Broadband downunder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 14 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: : :Heh. Norwegian cable providers also officially insist on Windows, but :IRL they're happy as clams to have the customer install the network :adapter and drivers himself, as long as he doesn't come whining to :them if it doesn't work. As for ADSL, the provider from which I've :ordered my line (not installed yet) says you can use anything you want :as long as it talks TCP/IP over Ethernet. They're happy to draw the :line between "mine" and "yours" at the router. : Shockingly, I had the same experience ordering DSL from Verizon. I was quite clear that I wasn't a Windows user, and was told that wasn't a problem, as long as my equipment did IP over ethernet and DHCP. We'll see, if the hardware ever shows up. -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 14 21:50:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7EE37B491 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18650; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:50:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010214224916.04d539f0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:50:36 -0700 To: Haikal Saadh , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Broadband downunder In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010214130312.04996140@localhost> References: <20010214020152.5079.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org By the way, a serious discussion is starting on Topica about broadband -- in particular, community broadband provided by non-profits that bypass local telcos. See http://www.topica.com/lists/community-broadband/ --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 14 23: 7: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D7E37B401 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 23:07:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03406; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:36:38 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010214224916.04d539f0@localhost> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:36:38 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Broadband downunder Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Haikal Saadh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15-Feb-01 Brett Glass wrote: > By the way, a serious discussion is starting on Topica about broadband -- > in particular, community broadband provided by non-profits that bypass > local telcos. See > > http://www.topica.com/lists/community-broadband/ Agile Communications are going to offer ADSL in .au soon... They are starting of in SA and should be moving to other states in the future.. They are actually clueful (*gasp*) and don't have lame EULA's either. http://www.agile.com.au --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 3:38:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns3.tstt.net.tt (ns3.tstt.net.tt [196.3.132.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A3B3837B4EC for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 03:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 261504 invoked by uid 0); 15 Feb 2001 11:38:07 -0000 Received: from cuscon4524.tstt.net.tt (HELO uwi.tt) (209.94.221.30) by ns3.tstt.net.tt with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 11:38:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8BBF9B.A990C816@uwi.tt> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:38:03 -0400 From: Dale Chulhan - Home Organization: COSTAATT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" , My List Subject: Reserved IP Addresses Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Where can I get a list of reserved IP Addresses and WHY they are reserved? I just keep getting that: 192.0.0.x Reserved JBP 192.0.1.x Backbone-Test-C RH6 192.0.2.x Internet-Test-C JBP 192.1.(0-1).x Backbone Local Nets SOC 192.1.2.x Backbone Fiber Nets SOC 192.1.3.x Backbone Apollo Nets SOC can any one help me decode this? -- ************* You need only 2 tools: WD-40 and Duct tape. If its supposed to move and it dosen't, use WD-40, If it moves and it not supposed to, use the tape. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 4: 4:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C0837B401 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 04:04:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08304; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:02:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Dale Chulhan - Home Cc: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" , My List Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses References: <3A8BBF9B.A990C816@uwi.tt> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Feb 2001 13:02:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: Dale Chulhan - Home's message of "Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:38:03 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dale Chulhan - Home writes: > Where can I get a list of reserved IP Addresses and WHY they are > reserved? RFC1918 . To make a long story short, 10.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16 and 172.16.0.0/12 are reserved for use on private networks that are either not connected to the Internet, or connected through a non-forwarding or masquerading firewall. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 4:40: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bne003m.webcentral.com.au (bne003m.server-mail.com [202.139.235.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 72E8D37B401 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 04:39:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1603 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 12:39:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warhawk) (203.147.160.62) by bne003m.server-mail.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 12:39:45 -0000 Message-ID: <006d01c0974c$e9a02870$0100a8c0@warhawk> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: "David Scheidt" , "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" Cc: "Stephen McKay" , References: Subject: Re: Broadband downunder Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:42:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Scheidt" To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" Cc: "Stephen McKay" ; "Haikal Saadh" ; Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:54 PM Subject: Re: Broadband downunder > On 14 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > : > :Heh. Norwegian cable providers also officially insist on Windows, but > :IRL they're happy as clams to have the customer install the network > :adapter and drivers himself, as long as he doesn't come whining to > :them if it doesn't work. As for ADSL, the provider from which I've > :ordered my line (not installed yet) says you can use anything you want > :as long as it talks TCP/IP over Ethernet. They're happy to draw the > :line between "mine" and "yours" at the router. > : > Shockingly, I had the same experience ordering DSL from Verizon. I was > quite clear that I wasn't a Windows user, and was told that wasn't a > problem, as long as my equipment did IP over ethernet and DHCP. We'll see, > if the hardware ever shows up. Hardware compatability should not be an issue, should it? It's just a black box that plugs into an ethernet card? And in the case of cable modems all DOCSIS modems are equal, right? All the sites I've come across have a fair bit of helpful info on setting up the hardware, but not much info on the hardware itself, and unfortunately, there is not a LINT in sight atm to grep thru. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 4:43:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost-1.inspire.net.nz [203.79.88.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DBD0A37B491 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 04:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 52796 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 12:43:07 -0000 Received: from gargoyle-pptp.outpost.co.nz (HELO outpost.co.nz) (192.168.2.42) by outpost-4.inspire.net.nz with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 12:43:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8BCED4.F5F48EF9@outpost.co.nz> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 01:43:00 +1300 From: Craig Harding Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses References: <3A8BBF9B.A990C816@uwi.tt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Dale Chulhan - Home writes: > > Where can I get a list of reserved IP Addresses and WHY they are > > reserved? > > RFC1918 . To make a long > story short, 10.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16 and 172.16.0.0/12 are reserved > for use on private networks that are either not connected to the > Internet, or connected through a non-forwarding or masquerading > firewall. Hah! Tell that to Telecom NZ!![1] -- C. [1] For example, here's a traceroute from my ADSL address to a well known website. Like it? traceroute to freefall.freebsd.org (216.136.204.21), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 210-55-70-254.adsl.netgate.net.nz (210.55.70.254) 46.302 ms 54.875 ms 49.331 ms 2 192.168.253.1 (192.168.253.1) 52.141 ms 52.554 ms 51.716 ms 3 202.37.247.253 (202.37.247.253) 91.463 ms 54.222 ms 216.400 ms 4 p6-1-0.labr1.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.116.186) 224.678 ms 223.998 ms 224.472 ms 5 s5-0-0.lsanca1-cr1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.24.17) 224.243 ms 224.229 ms 224.514 ms 6 p2-1.lsanca1-ba1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.4.5) 224.284 ms 224.348 ms 225.650 ms 7 p5-0.lsanca2-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.4.2) 224.005 ms 223.337 ms 226.315 ms 8 p15-0.lsanca2-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.24.5.46) 224.636 ms 224.289 ms 225.743 ms 9 p1-0.lsanca1-cr9.bbnplanet.net (4.24.5.202) 225.160 ms 224.788 ms 224.369 ms 10 p0-0.exocom5.bbnplanet.net (4.24.206.30) 227.051 ms 226.359 ms 227.418 ms 11 bbr02-g6-0.elsg01.exodus.net (216.34.192.36) 227.356 ms 224.575 ms 226.485 ms 12 bbr01-p2-0.irvn01.exodus.net (209.1.169.229) 227.940 ms 227.154 ms 227.499 ms 13 bbr02-p4-0.sntc03.exodus.net (216.32.173.205) 237.235 ms 236.540 ms 236.732 ms 14 bbr01-p0-2.sntc05.exodus.net (216.32.132.137) 237.022 ms 237.031 ms 236.751 ms 15 dcr01-g6-0.sntc05.exodus.net (64.56.192.19) 236.535 ms 237.278 ms 237.384 ms 16 g2-1.bas1-m.sc5.yahoo.com (64.56.207.146) 238.054 ms 237.352 ms 237.902 ms 17 freefall.freebsd.org (216.136.204.21) 237.108 ms 237.163 ms 237.518 ms To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 4:46:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F89437B4EC for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 04:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08531; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:46:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "Haikal Saadh" Cc: "David Scheidt" , "Stephen McKay" , Subject: Re: Broadband downunder References: <006d01c0974c$e9a02870$0100a8c0@warhawk> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Feb 2001 13:46:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Haikal Saadh"'s message of "Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:42:51 +1000" Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Haikal Saadh" writes: > > Shockingly, I had the same experience ordering DSL from Verizon. I was > > quite clear that I wasn't a Windows user, and was told that wasn't a > > problem, as long as my equipment did IP over ethernet and DHCP. We'll see, > > if the hardware ever shows up. > Hardware compatability should not be an issue, should it? I think he meant "shows up" as in "arrives at my doorstep" :) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 5:10:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8841537B491 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 05:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06403; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:10:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:10:32 -0600 (CST) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Haikal Saadh , Stephen McKay , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Broadband downunder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: :"Haikal Saadh" writes: :> > Shockingly, I had the same experience ordering DSL from Verizon. I was :> > quite clear that I wasn't a Windows user, and was told that wasn't a :> > problem, as long as my equipment did IP over ethernet and DHCP. We'll see, :> > if the hardware ever shows up. :> Hardware compatability should not be an issue, should it? : :I think he meant "shows up" as in "arrives at my doorstep" :) : Indeed. I'm not suprised that it will work. I'm suprised that the service provider admits it. I've been told by more than one dialup provider that they are incompatabile with anything other than windows. Not just, "We don't support that", but "It won't work". It's never been true. -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 5:33:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from diskfarm.firehouse.net (rdu26-60-051.nc.rr.com [66.26.60.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E195F37B491 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 05:33:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from abc@localhost) by diskfarm.firehouse.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1FDYbc93880 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:34:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from abc) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:34:37 -0500 From: Alan Clegg To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Seems one of the "defacement" groups now uses beastie. Message-ID: <20010215083437.A93857@diskfarm.firehouse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Interesting graphic. I somehow doubt that it is "Kirk Approved" (at least for this application). ----- Forwarded message from security curmudgeon ----- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 01:28:06 -0700 From: security curmudgeon Subject: [defaced] www.spi.org by ReFLuX To: defaced@attrition.org Reply-To: security curmudgeon x-url: http://www.attrition.org/mirror/ Defaced domain: www.spi.org Site Title: Software Patent Institute Mirror: http://www.attrition.org/mirror/attrition/2001/02/15/www.spi.org/ Defaced by: ReFLuX Operating System: Red Hat Linux Web Server: Apache/1.3.9 Potentially offensive content on defaced page. =-= This notice is being mailed as we take the mirror. It may not appear on the actual mirror at http://www.attrition.org/mirror/attrition/ for a short time. Defaced subscriber count: 1531 Total mirrors archived on Attrition: 11147 To unsubscribe: mail majordomo@attrition.org with 'unsubscribe defaced' in the BODY of the mail. If you are subscribed to the defaced-gm list, send mail with 'unsubscribe defaced-gm' instead. ----- End forwarded message ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 5:42: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from horizon.webcentral.com.au (bne001m.server-mail.com [202.139.235.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CDCCD37B67D for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 05:42:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24436 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 13:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warhawk) (203.147.160.62) by bne001m.server-mail.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 13:41:56 -0000 Message-ID: <012101c09755$99603f90$0100a8c0@warhawk> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" Cc: "David Scheidt" , "Stephen McKay" , References: <006d01c0974c$e9a02870$0100a8c0@warhawk> Subject: Re: Broadband downunder Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:45:26 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" To: "Haikal Saadh" Cc: "David Scheidt" ; "Stephen McKay" ; Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Broadband downunder > "Haikal Saadh" writes: > > > Shockingly, I had the same experience ordering DSL from Verizon. I was > > > quite clear that I wasn't a Windows user, and was told that wasn't a > > > problem, as long as my equipment did IP over ethernet and DHCP. We'll see, > > > if the hardware ever shows up. > > Hardware compatability should not be an issue, should it? > > I think he meant "shows up" as in "arrives at my doorstep" :) I understood that, but I my question still stands..any takers? > > DES To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 5:44:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bne005m.server-mail.com (bne005m.server-mail.com [202.139.234.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8434837B4EC for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 05:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12469 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 13:44:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warhawk) (203.147.160.62) by bne005m.server-mail.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 13:44:21 -0000 Message-ID: <013701c09755$eff37ca0$0100a8c0@warhawk> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: "David Scheidt" , "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" Cc: "Stephen McKay" , References: Subject: Re: Broadband downunder Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:47:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Scheidt" To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" Cc: "Haikal Saadh" ; "Stephen McKay" ; Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 11:10 PM Subject: Re: Broadband downunder > On 15 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > :"Haikal Saadh" writes: > :> > Shockingly, I had the same experience ordering DSL from Verizon. I was > :> > quite clear that I wasn't a Windows user, and was told that wasn't a > :> > problem, as long as my equipment did IP over ethernet and DHCP. We'll see, > :> > if the hardware ever shows up. > :> Hardware compatability should not be an issue, should it? > : > :I think he meant "shows up" as in "arrives at my doorstep" :) > : > Indeed. I'm not suprised that it will work. I'm suprised that the service > provider admits it. I've been told by more than one dialup provider that > they are incompatabile with anything other than windows. Not just, "We > don't support that", but "It won't work". It's never been true. > Okay, that puts me at ease. But Damn Optus for making you have win9x/NT for them to install on... > -- > dscheidt@tumbolia.com > Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 5:57:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (okc-65-26-235-186.mmcable.com [65.26.235.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 853E037B401 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 05:57:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1599 invoked by uid 100); 15 Feb 2001 13:57:13 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14987.57401.760895.325431@guru.mired.org> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:57:13 -0600 To: Alan Clegg Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seems one of the "defacement" groups now uses beastie. In-Reply-To: <20010215083437.A93857@diskfarm.firehouse.net> References: <20010215083437.A93857@diskfarm.firehouse.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.89 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alan Clegg types: > Interesting graphic. I somehow doubt that it is "Kirk Approved" (at least > for this application). Well, it's not an image I've seen on Kirk's site, so it's not likely they violated his copyright by taking it from their. I suspect they drew (or commisioned) their own, meaning it's perfectly legal for them to do so. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 6: 3:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [212.61.40.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84637B65D for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 06:03:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.gvr.org (Postfix, from userid 657) id 8D6125808; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:03:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:03:01 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Dale Chulhan - Home , "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" , My List Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses Message-ID: <20010215150301.B55420@gvr.gvr.org> References: <3A8BBF9B.A990C816@uwi.tt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 01:02:43PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 01:02:43PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Dale Chulhan - Home writes: > > Where can I get a list of reserved IP Addresses and WHY they are > > reserved? > > RFC1918 . To make a long > story short, 10.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16 and 172.16.0.0/12 are reserved > for use on private networks that are either not connected to the > Internet, or connected through a non-forwarding or masquerading > firewall. > See also: http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-manning-dsua-06.txt -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 6:27:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [212.61.40.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7191E37B684 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 06:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.gvr.org (Postfix, from userid 657) id A8B6D5807; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:54:14 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:54:14 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: Stephen McKay Cc: Haikal Saadh , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Broadband downunder Message-ID: <20010215145414.A55420@gvr.gvr.org> References: <20010214020152.5079.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> <200102141136.f1EBatG18850@dungeon.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200102141136.f1EBatG18850@dungeon.home>; from mckay@thehub.com.au on Wed, Feb 14, 2001 at 09:36:55PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 14, 2001 at 09:36:55PM +1000, Stephen McKay wrote: > > The usual deal is to pretend to be an avid Windoze user while the > technician is there, then plug the network into your unix cluster > when they've left. The exact details on how to connect from FreeBSD > or Linux vary, and I don't currently know any details. > I have a cable modem that was installed by a couple of technical guys. The provider, UPC, does only support M$ setups but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to use other OSses. In fact the technicians were very impressed with FBSD and how quick I had everythng working. Especially when I did a tcpdump and showed them router sollicitations from within the UPC network ;-) -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 6:43: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7767B37B401 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 06:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22119; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:42:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010215073629.04e80420@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:42:06 -0700 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Dale Chulhan - Home From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses Cc: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" , My List In-Reply-To: References: <3A8BBF9B.A990C816@uwi.tt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:02 AM 2/15/2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >RFC1918 . To make a long >story short, 10.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16 and 172.16.0.0/12 are reserved >for use on private networks that are either not connected to the >Internet, or connected through a non-forwarding or masquerading >firewall. These are the addresses that are reserved by standard. Others, as in Dale's message, are reserved by fiat! For example, HP has grabbed, without authorization, a bunch of IANA "experimental" addresses for its JetDirect printers and print servers. No one gave them the addresses; their equipment JUST TAKES THEM. If you let packets for them through your firewall, folks may be able to commandeer your printers. There really should be a good list of addresses that are reserved not only by RFC1918 but also by "land grabs." --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 6:54:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (okc-65-26-235-186.mmcable.com [65.26.235.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1020237B491 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 06:54:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 48364 invoked by uid 100); 15 Feb 2001 14:54:46 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14987.60854.275028.917102@guru.mired.org> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:54:46 -0600 To: Jimmy Olgeni Cc: Mike Meyer , Alan Clegg , Subject: Re: Seems one of the "defacement" groups now uses beastie. In-Reply-To: References: <14987.57401.760895.325431@guru.mired.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.89 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jimmy Olgeni types: > On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Mike Meyer wrote: > > Well, it's not an image I've seen on Kirk's site, so it's not likely > > they violated his copyright by taking it from their. I suspect they > > drew (or commisioned) their own, meaning it's perfectly legal for them > > to do so. > Looks like they got it from http://www.trustedbsd.org/. Sure does, at that. That one belongs to Leigh Denault, who points you to Kirk for permission to use Leigh's work. Which means they really do need Kirk's approval. Which is all very cool. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 7: 4:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.opus.co.tt (mail.opus.co.tt [196.3.136.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0741E37B401 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from openaccess03 (unverified [196.3.136.186]) by mail.opus.co.tt (Vircom SMTPRS 4.3.183) with SMTP id ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:04:19 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c0975f$5d9c8540$100101c8@openaccess03> From: "Dale Chulhan - Work" To: "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" , "Brett Glass" Cc: , "My List" References: <3A8BBF9B.A990C816@uwi.tt> <4.3.2.7.2.20010215073629.04e80420@localhost> Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:55:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thank you this is the closest reply to my quest so far ... but still no dice. I'm still searching for a "list" though And why is > > 192.0.0.x Reserved JBP > > 192.0.1.x Backbone-Test-C RH6 > > 192.0.2.x Internet-Test-C JBP > > 192.1.(0-1).x Backbone Local Nets SOC > > 192.1.2.x Backbone Fiber Nets SOC > > 192.1.3.x Backbone Apollo Nets SOC Treated so specially by NIC? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 7: 8:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45DD437B67D for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA59217; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:08:12 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:08:10 -0600 (CST) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com To: Craig Harding Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses In-Reply-To: <3A8BCED4.F5F48EF9@outpost.co.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Craig Harding wrote: : :Hah! Tell that to Telecom NZ!![1] : : -- C. : :[1] For example, here's a traceroute from my ADSL address to a well :known website. Like it? : :traceroute to freefall.freebsd.org (216.136.204.21), 30 hops max, 40 :byte packets : 1 210-55-70-254.adsl.netgate.net.nz (210.55.70.254) 46.302 ms 54.875 :ms 49.331 ms : 2 192.168.253.1 (192.168.253.1) 52.141 ms 52.554 ms 51.716 ms I don't see a problem here. Is this route supposed to be directly accessable outside of their network? If it's behind their border routers, and not for use outside hte netwok, a private network address is quite reasonable. : 3 202.37.247.253 (202.37.247.253) 91.463 ms 54.222 ms 216.400 ms : 4 p6-1-0.labr1.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.116.186) 224.678 ms :223.998 ms 224.472 ms : 5 s5-0-0.lsanca1-cr1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.24.17) 224.243 ms 224.229 :ms 224.514 ms -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 7:27:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72BB037B4EC for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09069; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:27:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: David Scheidt Cc: Craig Harding , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 15 Feb 2001 16:27:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: David Scheidt's message of "Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:08:10 -0600 (CST)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Scheidt writes: > I don't see a problem here. Is this route supposed to be directly > accessable outside of their network? If it's behind their border routers, > and not for use outside hte netwok, a private network address is quite > reasonable. No, it's not reasonable to use such addresses for equipment that is visible from the outside. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 7:59:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [209.0.55.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07EB137B491 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id ED0B3755E; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA4D51D89; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:02:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:02:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jamie Bowden To: David Scheidt Cc: Craig Harding , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, David Scheidt wrote: :On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Craig Harding wrote: ::[1] For example, here's a traceroute from my ADSL address to a well ::known website. Like it? ::traceroute to freefall.freebsd.org (216.136.204.21), 30 hops max, 40 ::byte packets :: 1 210-55-70-254.adsl.netgate.net.nz (210.55.70.254) 46.302 ms 54.875 ::ms 49.331 ms :: 2 192.168.253.1 (192.168.253.1) 52.141 ms 52.554 ms 51.716 ms :I don't see a problem here. Is this route supposed to be directly :accessable outside of their network? If it's behind their border routers, :and not for use outside hte netwok, a private network address is quite :reasonable. I used 192.168/16 space across a frame cloud at a former employer. I just couldn't see using real address space there. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 14:15:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-49.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C10C37B503 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 03B2066E6F; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:15:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:15:10 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Mark Murray Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The /usr/bin/games bikeshed again Message-ID: <20010215141510.C24276@mollari.cthul.hu> References: <200102151834.f1FIXv941778@gratis.grondar.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102151834.f1FIXv941778@gratis.grondar.za>; from mark@grondar.za on Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 08:34:33PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 08:34:33PM +0200, Mark Murray wrote: > I'd like to turn each category into a port (ports/games/bsd-adventure > for example), with the exception of "utility"). Those, I'd like > to keep where they are. In that class ("utility") is everyone's > favourite - fortune, so that should deal with most of the fears > from last time :-). This email overlapped with my proposal to import nethack into the base system :-) Kris --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6jFTuWry0BWjoQKURAkIjAKCshZwzHezOYgdvU/6LyX+qzh10lgCg/jiq FRo/SmBwaJVAMLIlDRAInuw= =FXjE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 16: 3:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA4337B503; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f1G03Sh48710; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:03:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:03:28 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Mike Meyer Cc: Jimmy Olgeni , Alan Clegg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Seems one of the "defacement" groups now uses beastie. In-Reply-To: <14987.60854.275028.917102@guru.mired.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Mike Meyer wrote: > Jimmy Olgeni types: > > On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Mike Meyer wrote: > > > Well, it's not an image I've seen on Kirk's site, so it's not likely > > > they violated his copyright by taking it from their. I suspect they > > > drew (or commisioned) their own, meaning it's perfectly legal for them > > > to do so. > > Looks like they got it from http://www.trustedbsd.org/. > > Sure does, at that. That one belongs to Leigh Denault, who points you to > Kirk for permission to use Leigh's work. Which means they really do need > Kirk's approval. Which is all very cool. Yup -- sure enough, this is the TrustedBSD Daemon being used without permission, and after removing the artist's name from the image. On the one hand, I'm glad her name was removed before it was posted on the front page of a defaced site -- on the other hand, it's definitely a product of use without permission :-). The TrustedBSD daemon was created by Leigh and is used with the permission of Kirk McKusick since he claims rights relating to the BSD Daemon. The hacked site is somewhat entertaining, and I'm fine with the Attrition people keeping a copy up for that purpose, but would generally discourage use of the logo for things not specifically associated with the TrustedBSD Project. This is actually the second copyright violation I've come across over the last few weeks. The first was that the OpenRoot people are selling OpenRoot t-shirts with the TrustedBSD logo on them. Apparently they didn't realize that leaving the name on the image and then selling it constitutes acknowledgement, and not permission. For those in any doubt: acknowledging is not the same as getting permission. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 16:10:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E300837B65D for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:10:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13401; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:40:19 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <006d01c0974c$e9a02870$0100a8c0@warhawk> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:40:18 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Haikal Saadh Subject: Re: Broadband downunder Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Stephen McKay , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , David Scheidt Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 15-Feb-01 Haikal Saadh wrote: > Hardware compatability should not be an issue, should it? It's just a black > box that plugs into an ethernet card? And in the case of cable modems all > DOCSIS modems are equal, right? All the sites I've come across have a fair Bzzat :-( Some providers use USB DSL modems which may or may not have drivers.. eg British Telecom provides the cheaper USB DSL modem and if you want ethernet you need to pay extra. AFAIK Telstra provide a ethernet connection. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 16:24:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8328837B491 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:24:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19779; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA8HaqKM; Thu Feb 15 17:19:26 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10935; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:24:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102160024.RAA10935@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses To: guido@gvr.org (Guido van Rooij) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:24:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), dchulhan@uwi.tt (Dale Chulhan - Home), chat@FreeBSD.ORG (chat@FreeBSD.ORG), TheTechies@onelist.com (My List) In-Reply-To: <20010215150301.B55420@gvr.gvr.org> from "Guido van Rooij" at Feb 15, 2001 03:03:01 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Where can I get a list of reserved IP Addresses and WHY they are > > > reserved? > > > > RFC1918 . To make a long > > story short, 10.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16 and 172.16.0.0/12 are reserved > > for use on private networks that are either not connected to the > > Internet, or connected through a non-forwarding or masquerading > > firewall. > > > > See also: > http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-manning-dsua-06.txt Rats! You beat me! But you missed two! draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-01.txt draft-perkins-manet-autoconf-00.txt These take 169.254/16; this is the IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration that Windows uses, if you plug a number of Windows boxes together on a network without a DHCP server. The network addresses are reserved as "link.local". I realize that neither is ratified to RFC status, but Windows already uses it, so there's no reason to shoot yourself in the foot unnecesarily. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 16:25:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332BF37B401 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:25:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20109; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAizaOjN; Thu Feb 15 17:20:35 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10954; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:25:28 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102160025.RAA10954@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses To: crh@outpost.co.nz (Craig Harding) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:25:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3A8BCED4.F5F48EF9@outpost.co.nz> from "Craig Harding" at Feb 16, 2001 01:43:00 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > RFC1918 . To make a long > > story short, 10.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16 and 172.16.0.0/12 are reserved > > for use on private networks that are either not connected to the > > Internet, or connected through a non-forwarding or masquerading > > firewall. > > Hah! Tell that to Telecom NZ!![1] > > -- C. > > [1] For example, here's a traceroute from my ADSL address to a well > known website. Like it? > > traceroute to freefall.freebsd.org (216.136.204.21), 30 hops max, 40 > byte packets > 1 210-55-70-254.adsl.netgate.net.nz (210.55.70.254) 46.302 ms 54.875 > ms 49.331 ms > 2 192.168.253.1 (192.168.253.1) 52.141 ms 52.554 ms 51.716 ms > 3 202.37.247.253 (202.37.247.253) 91.463 ms 54.222 ms 216.400 ms You are going through a NAT bridge. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 16:30:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BFAB37B401 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:30:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20106; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:24:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAUraW4M; Thu Feb 15 17:24:04 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11053; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:30:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102160030.RAA11053@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:30:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), dchulhan@uwi.tt (Dale Chulhan - Home), chat@FreeBSD.ORG (chat@FreeBSD.ORG), TheTechies@onelist.com (My List) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010215073629.04e80420@localhost> from "Brett Glass" at Feb 15, 2001 07:42:06 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > These are the addresses that are reserved by standard. Others, as in > Dale's message, are reserved by fiat! For example, HP has grabbed, > without authorization, a bunch of IANA "experimental" addresses for > its JetDirect printers and print servers. No one gave them the > addresses; their equipment JUST TAKES THEM. If you let packets for > them through your firewall, folks may be able to commandeer your > printers. > > There really should be a good list of addresses that are reserved > not only by RFC1918 but also by "land grabs." That's an incredibly bad idea, unless you intent is to stomp all over the land grabs, instead of somehow legitimizing them by recognizing their "grabbed" status. I'd have no problem with taking "grabbed" IP addresses, and putting them in default firewall rule sets, without attributing the grabbers, for example... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 16:37:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (okc-65-26-235-186.mmcable.com [65.26.235.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BFC4A37B4EC for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:37:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 93608 invoked by uid 100); 16 Feb 2001 00:37:53 -0000 From: Mike Meyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14988.30305.721832.686244@guru.mired.org> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:37:53 -0600 To: Robert Watson Cc: Jimmy Olgeni , Alan Clegg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Beastie rights? Was: Seems one of the "defacement" groups now uses beastie. In-Reply-To: References: <14987.60854.275028.917102@guru.mired.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.89 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Robert Watson types: > The TrustedBSD daemon was created by Leigh > and is used with the permission of Kirk McKusick since he claims rights > relating to the BSD Daemon. In looking over his website, it's not at all clear whether Kirk is claiming copyright on the just the images, or is also claiming copyright on the character. The former would mean that things like the TrustedBSD daemon don't require his permission to use (which is what I thought was going on, and what made Leigh's letting him control the usage cool). The latter gives him more rights; I'm not sure if it can be applied in this case (or has Kirk written fiction about the daemon?), and exactly what it covers. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 16:48:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1288037B69B; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f1G0mIh49219; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:48:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:48:18 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Mike Meyer Cc: Jimmy Olgeni , Alan Clegg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Beastie rights? Was: Seems one of the "defacement" groups now uses beastie. In-Reply-To: <14988.30305.721832.686244@guru.mired.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Mike Meyer wrote: > Robert Watson types: > > The TrustedBSD daemon was created by Leigh > > and is used with the permission of Kirk McKusick since he claims rights > > relating to the BSD Daemon. > > In looking over his website, it's not at all clear whether Kirk is > claiming copyright on the just the images, or is also claiming copyright > on the character. The former would mean that things like the TrustedBSD > daemon don't require his permission to use (which is what I thought was > going on, and what made Leigh's letting him control the usage cool). The > latter gives him more rights; I'm not sure if it can be applied in this > case (or has Kirk written fiction about the daemon?), and exactly what > it covers. I think it's an ambiguity that generally people have not attempted to resolve, rather, they've gone with Kirk's wishes by asking permission for both the original beastie images, as well as derivatives, acknowledging rights that may or may not be based entirely in law. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 16:54:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost-1.inspire.net.nz [203.79.88.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 58F7037B503 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:54:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 56157 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 00:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outpost.co.nz) (192.168.1.199) by outpost-4.inspire.net.nz with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 00:54:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8C7A4E.B6AFEFB6@outpost.co.nz> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:54:38 +1300 From: Craig Harding Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses References: <200102160025.RAA10954@usr08.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > > Hah! Tell that to Telecom NZ!![1] > > > > [1] For example, here's a traceroute from my ADSL address to a well > > known website. Like it? > > > > traceroute to freefall.freebsd.org (216.136.204.21), 30 hops max, 40 > > byte packets > > 1 210-55-70-254.adsl.netgate.net.nz (210.55.70.254) 46.302 ms 54.875 > > ms 49.331 ms > > 2 192.168.253.1 (192.168.253.1) 52.141 ms 52.554 ms 51.716 ms > > 3 202.37.247.253 (202.37.247.253) 91.463 ms 54.222 ms 216.400 ms > > You are going through a NAT bridge. Quite possibly, but it's part of Telecom's infrastructure. My address on ADSL is 210.55.70.x (on my FreeBSD gateway box), 210.55.70.254 is the far end (Telecom's) of the PPP connection. I do use NAT behind my FreeBSD gateway, but that didn't factor in the above traceroute. -- C. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 17:21:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost-1.inspire.net.nz [203.79.88.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0264D37B4EC for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 56345 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 01:21:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outpost.co.nz) (192.168.1.199) by outpost-4.inspire.net.nz with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 01:21:37 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8C809C.E01A7B8C@outpost.co.nz> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:21:32 +1300 From: Craig Harding Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: treznor@sunflower.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses References: <20010216010722.91758.qmail@web12507.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tyler McGeorge wrote: > That's your ADSL modem. When I traceroute on my box, > my second hop is a 10. address. No it's not. My ADSL modem doesn't have an IP address. I'm speaking PPPoE to the modem, which is speaking PPPoATM to the far end. The modem in the middle doesn't get an IP as the PPP link only has two ends, one at my Unix box and one at the far end. There's no "middle" to get an IP address. My machine gets 210.55.70.x, the far end (telco) has 210.55.70.254. The 192.168 address comes after that. I happen to know for a fact (from talking to my friend who runs a local ISP) that Telecom NZ uses 192.168.x.x addresses internally for various parts of their ADSL network, and even have things sufficiently misconfigured to announce those addresses into his router (which caused him great surprise initially, he couldn't figure out why the office machines on a 192.168.x.x subnet behind NAT suddenly couldn't talk to anything - Telecom had announced a route for that subnet). -- C. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 17:39: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E7AF37B503 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A0D196ACB0; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:09:00 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:09:00 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: I'll be in the San Francisco area next weekend Message-ID: <20010216120900.S57259@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As some of you will know, the fading of Linuxcare means that I am currently out of a job. I'll be travelling around the USA next week talking with people, and plan to be in the Silicon Valley/San Francisco/Berkeley area next weekend. Does anybody want to get together? Does anybody have a spare bed? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 17:52:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E40737B491 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:52:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1G1q3o28031; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:52:04 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102160152.f1G1q3o28031@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Greg Lehey Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:52:00 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: I'll be in the San Francisco area next weekend Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <20010216120900.S57259@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 16 Feb 2001, at 12:09, Greg Lehey wrote: > As some of you will know, the fading of Linuxcare means that I am > currently out of a job. From time to time I wondered what your job is. This makes two of us looking for work. My contract finished two weeks ago... So if anyone has paying work that needs doing... > I'll be travelling around the USA next week > talking with people, and plan to be in the Silicon Valley/San > Francisco/Berkeley area next weekend. Is this a job hunt? -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 15 22:22:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gratis.grondar.za (grouter.grondar.za [196.7.18.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA2F37B401 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:22:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from grondar.za (root@gratis.grondar.za [196.7.18.133]) by gratis.grondar.za (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1G6Lm944508; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:21:50 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from mark@grondar.za) Message-Id: <200102160621.f1G6Lm944508@gratis.grondar.za> To: Kris Kennaway Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The /usr/bin/games bikeshed again References: <20010215141510.C24276@mollari.cthul.hu> In-Reply-To: <20010215141510.C24276@mollari.cthul.hu> ; from Kris Kennaway "Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:15:10 PST." Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:22:20 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I'd like to turn each category into a port (ports/games/bsd-adventure > > for example), with the exception of "utility"). Those, I'd like > > to keep where they are. In that class ("utility") is everyone's > > favourite - fortune, so that should deal with most of the fears > > from last time :-). > > This email overlapped with my proposal to import nethack into the base > system :-) Don't let on - this is just a ploy to get Doom in as a replacement! M -- Mark Murray Warning: this .sig is umop ap!sdn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 16 0:14: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gvr.gvr.org (gvr.gvr.org [212.61.40.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6B837B4EC for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.gvr.org (Postfix, from userid 657) id AB3E35807; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:14:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:14:00 +0100 From: Guido van Rooij To: Terry Lambert Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Dale Chulhan - Home , "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" , My List Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses Message-ID: <20010216091400.A60506@gvr.gvr.org> References: <20010215150301.B55420@gvr.gvr.org> <200102160024.RAA10935@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200102160024.RAA10935@usr08.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 12:24:18AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 12:24:18AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > See also: > > http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-manning-dsua-06.txt > > Rats! You beat me! But you missed two! > > draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-01.txt > draft-perkins-manet-autoconf-00.txt > > These take 169.254/16; this is the IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration 169.254/16 is already mentioned in manning. -Guido To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 16 7:48:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8345037B4EC for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07841; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:47:37 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010216082455.00ca3f00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:47:28 -0700 To: Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses Cc: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), dchulhan@uwi.tt (Dale Chulhan - Home), chat@FreeBSD.ORG (chat@FreeBSD.ORG), TheTechies@onelist.com (My List) In-Reply-To: <200102160030.RAA11053@usr08.primenet.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010215073629.04e80420@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:30 PM 2/15/2001, Terry Lambert wrote: >That's an incredibly bad idea, unless you intent is to stomp >all over the land grabs, instead of somehow legitimizing them >by recognizing their "grabbed" status. > >I'd have no problem with taking "grabbed" IP addresses, and >putting them in default firewall rule sets, without attributing >the grabbers, for example... The danger in doing this is that it legitimizes what companies such as HP have done. I always found it amusing that, when one did a reverse DNS lookup on the addresses HP has grabbed, one used to get a message saying something like: "HP.network.printer.uses.this.address.illegally". The folklore is that Jon Postel did this. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 16 11:40:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DE037B401 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03717; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:35:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAn7aqbh; Fri Feb 16 12:34:57 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06372; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:40:14 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200102161940.MAA06372@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Reserved IP Addresses To: crh@outpost.co.nz (Craig Harding) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:40:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: treznor@sunflower.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3A8C809C.E01A7B8C@outpost.co.nz> from "Craig Harding" at Feb 16, 2001 02:21:32 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I happen to know for a fact (from talking to my friend who runs a local > ISP) that Telecom NZ uses 192.168.x.x addresses internally for various > parts of their ADSL network, and even have things sufficiently > misconfigured to announce those addresses into his router (which caused > him great surprise initially, he couldn't figure out why the office > machines on a 192.168.x.x subnet behind NAT suddenly couldn't talk to > anything - Telecom had announced a route for that subnet). Which begs the question: why did his router accept those announcements, considering that the addresses are non-routable? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 16 15:22:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655AF37B491 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1GNMas36224; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:22:36 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102162322.f1GNMas36224@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:22:15 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: fortune candidate : WD-40 and Duct tape. Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: Dale Chulhan - Home X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've seen this twice recently, both in signatures from Dale Chulhan. You need only 2 tools: WD-40 and Duct tape. If its supposed to move and it dosen't, use WD-40, If it moves and it not supposed to, use the tape. -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php got any work? I'm looking for some. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 16 15:57:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9607737B401 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14716; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:56:56 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010216165522.04a85100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:56:52 -0700 To: dan@langille.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: fortune candidate : WD-40 and Duct tape. Cc: Dale Chulhan - Home In-Reply-To: <200102162322.f1GNMas36224@ns1.unixathome.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've seen a more colloquial version (not good English, but that's what makes it sound more natural): ... If it's stuck and needs unstuck, use WD-40. If it's unstuck and needs stuck, use duct tape. --Brett At 04:22 PM 2/16/2001, Dan Langille wrote: >I've seen this twice recently, both in signatures from Dale Chulhan. > >You need only 2 tools: WD-40 and Duct tape. >If its supposed to move and it dosen't, use WD-40, >If it moves and it not supposed to, use the tape. > >-- >Dan Langille >pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php >got any work? I'm looking for some. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 16 16: 8: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop3pub.verizon.net (smtppop3pub.gte.net [206.46.170.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E294737B491 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:08:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from gte.net (evrtwa1-ar4-4-34-145-186.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.145.186]) by smtppop3pub.verizon.net with ESMTP ; id SAA101530811 Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:02:50 -0600 (CST) Received: (from res03db2@localhost) by gte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10808; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:06:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:06:40 -0800 From: Robert Clark To: Dan Langille Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Dale Chulhan - Home Subject: Re: fortune candidate : WD-40 and Duct tape. Message-ID: <20010216160640.A10787@darkstar.gte.net> References: <200102162322.f1GNMas36224@ns1.unixathome.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200102162322.f1GNMas36224@ns1.unixathome.org>; from dan@langille.org on Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 12:22:15PM +1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org WD-40, duct tape, & Linux. Convenient, addictive, but effective. [RC] On Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 12:22:15PM +1300, Dan Langille wrote: > I've seen this twice recently, both in signatures from Dale Chulhan. > > You need only 2 tools: WD-40 and Duct tape. > If its supposed to move and it dosen't, use WD-40, > If it moves and it not supposed to, use the tape. > > -- > Dan Langille > pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php > got any work? I'm looking for some. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 16 21:14:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-165-226-49.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.165.226.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330B737B65D for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9CF3F66F7F; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:14:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:14:37 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Robert Clark Cc: Dan Langille , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Dale Chulhan - Home Subject: Re: fortune candidate : WD-40 and Duct tape. Message-ID: <20010216211437.D6524@mollari.cthul.hu> References: <200102162322.f1GNMas36224@ns1.unixathome.org> <20010216160640.A10787@darkstar.gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WChQLJJJfbwij+9x" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010216160640.A10787@darkstar.gte.net>; from res03db2@gte.net on Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 04:06:40PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --WChQLJJJfbwij+9x Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 04:06:40PM -0800, Robert Clark wrote: >=20 > WD-40, duct tape, & Linux. > Convenient, addictive, but effective. Uh..right. Kris --WChQLJJJfbwij+9x Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6jgi8Wry0BWjoQKURAsaXAJ9EsKk7itlTPeEFWC9U84XAyMfeAACgr5jO +sWcbfZ1jW33FZsCLoTcM+k= =fDW6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WChQLJJJfbwij+9x-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 17 14:14: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D79037B401 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:13:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C2D76594FD; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 16:14:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 16:14:19 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Dan Langille Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Dale Chulhan - Home Subject: Re: fortune candidate : WD-40 and Duct tape. Message-ID: <20010217161419.A85867@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Dan Langille , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Dale Chulhan - Home References: <200102162322.f1GNMas36224@ns1.unixathome.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102162322.f1GNMas36224@ns1.unixathome.org>; from dan@langille.org on Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 12:22:15PM +1300 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 12:22:15PM +1300, Dan Langille scribbled: | I've seen this twice recently, both in signatures from Dale Chulhan. | | You need only 2 tools: WD-40 and Duct tape. | If its supposed to move and it dosen't, use WD-40, WD-40 is a corrosive agent, use with care. :) | If it moves and it not supposed to, use the tape. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 17 18:50:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0987537B401 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 18:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25552; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:50:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:50:38 -0600 (CST) From: David Scheidt X-Sender: dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com To: Robert Clark Cc: Dan Langille , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Dale Chulhan - Home Subject: Re: fortune candidate : WD-40 and Duct tape. In-Reply-To: <20010216160640.A10787@darkstar.gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Robert Clark wrote: : :WD-40, duct tape, & Linux. The wrong tools for every job! -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message