From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 7:44:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C184937B403 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:44:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15P3Pa-000GUG-00 for freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:43:50 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15P3RR-000BLm-00 for freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:45:45 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:45:45 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Is this list dead? Message-ID: <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanner: exiscan *15P3Pa-000GUG-00*$AK$c2Y.rBVK.XXt0hM1vvztq0* Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm just wondering if this list is still alive? It seems pretty quiet for a list dedicated to a pretty hot topic. I can't see anything in the archives since May 18th this year. Anybody here awake? -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 8:29:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA0B837B408; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01709; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:28:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:28:22 +0100 To: Paul Robinson From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 15:45 24/07/01 +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: >I'm just wondering if this list is still alive? Me too. I have noticed that this list is missing from the search page http://www.freebsd.org/search/search.html, and from the handbook page http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html. I've Bcc'd this to postmaster@freebsd.org in hopes of getting that rectified. >It seems pretty quiet for a list dedicated to a pretty hot topic. [etc] There's not too much evidence of FreeBSD-related activity on the various general cluster-related sites either, but I suspect lights are being hidden under bushels. -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 8:34:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F32837B405 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:34:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15P4Bp-000JWh-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:33:42 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15P4Dh-000EAX-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:35:37 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:35:37 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Bob Bishop Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Message-ID: <20010724163537.A54445@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk>; from rb@gid.co.uk on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:28:22PM +0100 X-Scanner: exiscan *15P4Bp-000JWh-00*$AK$wZPYlx6QxB9.gRBagC0UB1* Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 24, Bob Bishop wrote: > There's not too much evidence of FreeBSD-related activity on the various > general cluster-related sites either, but I suspect lights are being hidden > under bushels. What a curious turn of phrase. Fancy explaing? On a general note, I'm just curious as to why FreeBSD clients don't appear to lock files with rpc.lockd, general issues around load-balancing etc. and why nobody seems to want to talk about clustering or pushing it forward under FBSD. -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 9: 2:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EA737B408 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:02:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01876; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:02:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724164231.00bdb960@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:02:03 +0100 To: Paul Robinson From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010724163537.A54445@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 16:35 24/07/01 +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: >On Jul 24, Bob Bishop wrote: > > > There's not too much evidence of FreeBSD-related activity on the various > > general cluster-related sites either, but I suspect lights are being > hidden > > under bushels. > >What a curious turn of phrase. Fancy explaing? http://www.xrefer.com/entry/632785 "Hide one's light under a bushel: Show extreme modesty [etc]" >On a general note, I'm just curious as to why FreeBSD clients don't appear >to lock files with rpc.lockd, Easy: it hasn't climbed high enough up anyone's todo list for it to actually get fixed. >...general issues around load-balancing etc. and >why nobody seems to want to talk about clustering or pushing it forward >under FBSD. I suspect (with little supporting evidence) that this is partly due to the different ways people are using clusters in diverse applications. For instance, a lot of the academic work is directed at microdecomposition via message passing, distributed shared memory or what have you. We on the other hand are currently doing some environmental modelling work characterised by large numbers of 30hr runs of a fat nasty FORTRAN program on assorted datasets. Clusters are appropriate in both cases, but different infrastructures are appropriate. One indicator I don't much like is that there doesn't seem to be much cluster-related software among the thousands of ports in the ports collection. -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 9: 3:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F0C37B407 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01888; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:03:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724170316.00bc61c0@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:03:22 +0100 To: cluster@freebsd.org From: Bob Bishop Subject: Fwd: Sun Grid Engine 5.2.3 Available. Now Open Source Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [forwarded from -hackers] >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:06:32 -0700 (PDT) >From: Ron Chen >Subject: Fwd: Sun Grid Engine 5.2.3 Available. Now Open Source >To: mauiusers@supercluster.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, > ssic-linux-devel@opensource.compaq.com, linux-ha@muc.de, > linux-cluster@nl.linux.org >Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG >List-ID: >List-Archive: (Web Archive) >List-Help: (List= Instructions) >List-Subscribe:=20 > >List-Unsubscribe:=20 > >X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Sun Grid Engine goes opensource. See SGE home page: > >http://www.sun.com/gridware > >-Ron > >--- Pedro D=EDaz Jim=E9nez wrote: > > From: Pedro D=EDaz Jim=E9nez > > To: Beowulf@beowulf.org > > Subject: Sun Grid Engine 5.2.3 Available. Now Open > > Source > > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:31:12 +0000 > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Thats it. > > > > You can find more information here: > > >http://planetcluster.org/article.php?sid=3D30&mode=3Dthread&order=3D0 > > Which is the Planet Cluster story page (a lot of URL > > involved, all listed > > there) > > > > Regards > > Pedro > > - -- > > > > __________________________________________________ > > / > > \ > > | Pedro Diaz Jimenez > > | > > | > > | > > | pdiaz88@terra.es pdiaz@acm.asoc.fi.upm.es > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | http://planetcluster.org > > | > > | Clustering & H.P.C. news and documentation > > | > > | > > | > > | There are no stupid questions, but there're a > > | > > | lot of inquisitive idiots > > | > > | Anonymous > > | > > | > > | > > | "I find your lack of faith disturbing." > > | > > | Darth Vader, Star Wars Episode IV > > | > > > > \__________________________________________________/ > > > > - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > > > >mQGiBDqcGZsRBADFIahNPLk8suMlS39m8RqatLgX4dO7PU2F5p1oVvkyB7PaLQCv > > >FREWwfrjGpxAjRnxyZ4TdaFi1oCP495t5R2CdjPZu0EfjsEqosdLXkjDsKl2n4Wo > > >Afb6BaHMJS5PADEI0QfpZOkB8OruAZja/oGmn5rThyjgCxWHUuK1ArmeGwCg7+9a > > >owg9wP1RohePHJSDB9d2HYMD/i7z1X4ev+K90LumgJwSWlScJ7MEip5rw4wqGOkK > > >lF/C2nTYsoX5CVEn/pu7hROL/BWIYtBgkNDaEjsVsyb+4KjQXcZUW5l3ADipWYx2 > > >r9s4sFfeZ9nfhDcG0aNYRcCNkYSZ/WxUkXS8UjVEAEhkFu1BA+6UZmeq3pKtJZTR > > >+HqKA/9zRmgTon36zt2qe9eiR6DyY0EpGEI0iY+KYX6GC/wxizeHBw0FW1eOEoxF > > >GjtxdBv/U9vi7Vgav6aY+pr4la5q6jVabe03Y8yGDFeL8jM+lqww1rzpABiGrF+W > > >qge65zCUjL3jJE5+5yi+KcRyllb1OA7uXQTtsRw+TGq9Dvaaz7QwUGVkcm8gRGlh > > >eiBKaW1lbmV6IChCLk8uRi5ILikgPHBkaWF6ODhAdGVycmEuZXM+iFYEExECABYF > > >AjqcGZsECwoEAwMVAwIDFgIBAheAAAoJEJ7ud33hGMZRj20An2Ce4S/vBTuZDxnL > > >WFBrJRnc3UdaAKDnIPNRbz7r4dh9AuBcpbCE1pQ/SLkBDQQ6nBmqEAQAr7O07Dws > > >5zAbQvm1hwGthXKCHtIIuWCPdX/XkNG6ZxV/cXgs4LI4oAg3GhttD2JIEk2SoVXE > > >FOf/wIddIDz70/9mIZavMvpR31LxBFSJk0Up3caOvThM90wMttRi7tg7cf04rrMM > > >Phy8T5bOIW/q5SMwZffbJXD7bA0/jDLdQ6MAAwYD/1emSwNTzOOmMCZadoEBpKIE > > >HA35P2/m/SsCI+pQ/OKXKPvvrQKTQqRCcDa5aq31oSiT9M5WQ96BlIGKHRPWGpvm > > >0822V7M9RF2mYZPIfgKfTSvZpYHzjz+RM7PvBBiBc9l95vy70Sh7SywIF86H80Ag > > >D0dUIDtGlrSANhXjx4EJiEYEGBECAAYFAjqcGaoACgkQnu53feEYxlHdVACgjVhU > > Y8CKf6MYZgQOR9eIDNvTX0AAn3dwbW1HLxEF5OQKJIsngl0BUlYK > > =3Dd4S3 > > - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > > > >iD8DBQE7XaLWnu53feEYxlERAqkKAJ4/fb5B9rXqpqRg13waNpptyFGKeQCfV418 > > JAWi3gKBHyFX/SbOBxO4208=3D > > =3D6Ucn > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org > > To change your subscription (digest mode or > > unsubscribe) visit >http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 9:11:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF9137B405 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15P4jc-000LZD-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:08:37 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15P4lU-000G7h-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:10:32 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:10:32 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Bob Bishop Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Message-ID: <20010724171032.A60915@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724163537.A54445@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724164231.00bdb960@gid.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724164231.00bdb960@gid.co.uk>; from rb@gid.co.uk on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:02:03PM +0100 X-Scanner: exiscan *15P4jc-000LZD-00*$AK$0KWE.g1ePDdfDegmeM2M71* Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 24, Bob Bishop wrote: > http://www.xrefer.com/entry/632785 > > "Hide one's light under a bushel: > Show extreme modesty [etc]" I still think it's strange. Thanks for explaining though. > Easy: it hasn't climbed high enough up anyone's todo list for it to > actually get fixed. Hmmmm. Well, who knows where my evenings will lead me over the next month or so then. It seems like an interesting (and valuable) thing to work on. If you're into that sort of thing. :-) > I suspect (with little supporting evidence) that this is partly due to the > different ways people are using clusters in diverse applications. For > instance, a lot of the academic work is directed at microdecomposition via > message passing, distributed shared memory or what have you. We on the > other hand are currently doing some environmental modelling work > characterised by large numbers of 30hr runs of a fat nasty FORTRAN program > on assorted datasets. Clusters are appropriate in both cases, but different > infrastructures are appropriate. Indeed. I actually want to think about things at a slightly higher level than that. For me a cluster is a redundant bunch of SQL servers that gives high-availability. Bit of load-balancing thrown in there, etc. > One indicator I don't much like is that there doesn't seem to be much > cluster-related software among the thousands of ports in the ports collection. The reason I started this thread was because over on -isp people were talking about vrrpd which is in ports. The idea being that you have a primary server and when it dies, your backup takes over. Then conversation led to load balancing, and then to clustering, and now we're here.... ;-) Like I said over on -isp, I hope to have some time to put into looking at high-level clustering soon with FBSD. I was just wondering if anybody else was playing with it or doing anything with clustering as a whole with FBSD. -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 9:21: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56BC37B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15P4ug-000MUC-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:20:02 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15P4wY-000GtM-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:21:58 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:21:58 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Bob Bishop Cc: cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Sun Grid Engine 5.2.3 Available. Now Open Source Message-ID: <20010724172158.B62776@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724170316.00bc61c0@gid.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724170316.00bc61c0@gid.co.uk>; from rb@gid.co.uk on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:03:22PM +0100 X-Scanner: exiscan *15P4ug-000MUC-00*$AK$3/BTFhRY9VIZ/2XPa2anj.* Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 24, Bob Bishop wrote: > [forwarded from -hackers] Now that is interesting. For those who want to get to the juicy bits: http://gridengine.sunsource.net/ A quick glance at the docs there, this looks like a weekend project to play with. ;-) -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 9:49:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D90B37B408 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:49:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02126; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:48:36 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724174652.00bd95e0@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:48:19 +0100 To: Paul Robinson From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Fwd: Sun Grid Engine 5.2.3 Available. Now Open Source Cc: cluster@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20010724172158.B62776@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724170316.00bc61c0@gid.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724170316.00bc61c0@gid.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 17:21 24/07/01 +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: >Now that is interesting. For those who want to get to the juicy bits: > >http://gridengine.sunsource.net/ > >A quick glance at the docs there, this looks like a weekend project to play >with. ;-) Me too. It's got to be better than GNU Queue. -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 10:49: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from psasolar.colltech.com (psasolar.colltech.com [208.229.236.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4406737B403 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kingjamm@colltech.com) Received: from localhost by psasolar.colltech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/not) with ESMTP id MAA11702; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:48:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:48:25 -0500 (CDT) From: James Mello X-Sender: kingjamm@psasolar.private.psa.pencom.com To: Paul Robinson Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Is this list dead? In-Reply-To: <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm here, but there isn't much to talk about... -- Cheers -- James On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Paul Robinson wrote: > I'm just wondering if this list is still alive? It seems pretty quiet for a > list dedicated to a pretty hot topic. I can't see anything in the archives > since May 18th this year. Anybody here awake? > > -- > Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- > Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes > PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the > T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and > | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe > `----- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 11: 3:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net (h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net [24.67.61.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B6D37B405 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:03:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@home.com) Received: by h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 162F366B05C; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:54:59 -0600 From: Chris Moline To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Message-ID: <20010724115459.B78678@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724163537.A54445@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724164231.00bdb960@gid.co.uk> <20010724171032.A60915@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010724171032.A60915@jake.akitanet.co.uk>; from paul@akita.co.uk on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:10:32PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 05:10:32PM +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: > On Jul 24, Bob Bishop wrote: > > > http://www.xrefer.com/entry/632785 > > > > "Hide one's light under a bushel: > > Show extreme modesty [etc]" > > I still think it's strange. Thanks for explaining though. I do believe it comes from a parable in the new testament. Not sure where to find it exactly though. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 11:19:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F04337B409 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:19:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15P6ly-0003w5-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:19:10 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15P6ns-000NZy-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:21:08 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:21:08 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Chris Moline Cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Message-ID: <20010724192108.A83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724163537.A54445@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724164231.00bdb960@gid.co.uk> <20010724171032.A60915@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <20010724115459.B78678@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20010724115459.B78678@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net>; from ugly-daemon@home.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:54:59AM -0600 X-Scanner: exiscan *15P6ly-0003w5-00*$AK$dJ.qrNL/STGqDfoZceq7I0* Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 24, Chris Moline wrote: > I do believe it comes from a parable in the new testament. Not sure where to > find it exactly though. The link you posted references the New Testament as the source, with details. :-) -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 11:30:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BDD637B403 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:30:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15P6wi-0004q2-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:30:16 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15P6yd-000OCz-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:32:15 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:32:15 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Chris Moline Cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Message-ID: <20010724193215.B83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724163537.A54445@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724164231.00bdb960@gid.co.uk> <20010724171032.A60915@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <20010724115459.B78678@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net> <20010724192108.A83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20010724192108.A83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk>; from paul@akita.co.uk on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:21:08PM +0100 X-Scanner: exiscan *15P6wi-0004q2-00*$AK$zkcYby2wnvJV8l5H0qfO//* Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 24, Paul Robinson wrote: > The link you posted references the New Testament as the source, with > details. :-) Sorry, I've just realised that it wasn't you who posted the link. Oops. Must remember to read headers. -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 11:45:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9DA037B407 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6OIiKv22113; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:44:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010724171032.A60915@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:44:24 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Paul Robinson Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.org, Bob Bishop Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-Jul-01 Paul Robinson wrote: >> Easy: it hasn't climbed high enough up anyone's todo list for it to >> actually get fixed. > > Hmmmm. Well, who knows where my evenings will lead me over the next month or > so then. It seems like an interesting (and valuable) thing to work on. If > you're into that sort of thing. :-) NFS client locking is "fixed" in -current already. You can bug Alfred Perlstein about getting a patchset against 4.x to test with and possibly get it MFC'd. I would do this soon as 4.4. is coming up in late August. > Indeed. I actually want to think about things at a slightly higher level > than that. For me a cluster is a redundant bunch of SQL servers that gives > high-availability. Bit of load-balancing thrown in there, etc. This is part of the problem. Everyone has different ideas of clustering. Some people just want load balancing and failover. Other people want things like distributed lock managers, processes that migrate between machines, virtual memory shared across machines, etc. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 11:54:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net (h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net [24.67.61.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C635237B407 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@home.com) Received: by h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 74DC966B05C; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:46:00 -0600 From: Chris Moline To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is this list dead? Message-ID: <20010724124600.A78795@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724154545.D34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724155503.00be2100@gid.co.uk> <20010724163537.A54445@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20010724164231.00bdb960@gid.co.uk> <20010724171032.A60915@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <20010724115459.B78678@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net> <20010724192108.A83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010724192108.A83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk>; from paul@akita.co.uk on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:21:08PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 07:21:08PM +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: > On Jul 24, Chris Moline wrote: > > > I do believe it comes from a parable in the new testament. Not sure where to > > find it exactly though. > > The link you posted references the New Testament as the source, with > details. :-) I am sorry but I didn't post any link :). I was clarifying someone else's explanation. Sincerly, Chris Moline To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 12:18: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7E837B407; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:17:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15P7gR-0007bA-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:17:31 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15P7iM-0000hX-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:19:30 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:19:30 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: John Baldwin Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.org, Bob Bishop Subject: Clustering efforts (was Re: Is this list dead?) Message-ID: <20010724201930.C83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <20010724171032.A60915@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 11:44:24AM -0700 X-Scanner: exiscan *15P7gR-0007bA-00*$AK$5MjJm2tUx.TXFii8fDM6l1* Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 24, John Baldwin wrote: > NFS client locking is "fixed" in -current already. You can bug Alfred > Perlstein about getting a patchset against 4.x to test > with and possibly get it MFC'd. I would do this soon as 4.4. is coming up in > late August. I might shoot off a mail, try and get a patchset sorted out and I can do some testing on 3.x, 4.3-RELEASE and maybe even current at a push. Glad to hear it's in -current - it will save me some evenings, and I will need it in a few weeks for a project I'm working on. > This is part of the problem. Everyone has different ideas of clustering. Some > people just want load balancing and failover. Other people want things like > distributed lock managers, processes that migrate between machines, virtual > memory shared across machines, etc. OK, so what clustering efforts are currently underway, and what are their objectives? The list archives are, like I say, dead, so please feel free to shout at me if there is a bunch of documentation out there explaining this that I've missed. My effort (for what it's worth) is over the next few months to go about producing web, mail, ftp and sql server distros that will work in failover/load balanced clusters. The fact that I can't find any detailed documentation on doing this with FreeBSD with out-of-the-box tools (at a push, a quick dive into ports), tells me that either documenting this up and making it available will be either a useful exercise benefiting many people, or will be completely redundant due to the fact I'm missing the point and this has been done to death already and I can't find it. However, I'm also intrigued by the idea of something beowulf-like for FBSD. Are there any projects like that at all underway? Again, sorry if I'm missing the obvious. -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 12:30:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948AA37B408 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:30:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6OJTGv22875; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010724201930.C83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:29:20 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Paul Robinson Subject: RE: Clustering efforts (was Re: Is this list dead?) Cc: Bob Bishop , freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-Jul-01 Paul Robinson wrote: > On Jul 24, John Baldwin wrote: > >> NFS client locking is "fixed" in -current already. You can bug Alfred >> Perlstein about getting a patchset against 4.x to test >> with and possibly get it MFC'd. I would do this soon as 4.4. is coming up >> in >> late August. > > I might shoot off a mail, try and get a patchset sorted out and I can do > some testing on 3.x, 4.3-RELEASE and maybe even current at a push. Glad to > hear it's in -current - it will save me some evenings, and I will need it in > a few weeks for a project I'm working on. Ok. >> This is part of the problem. Everyone has different ideas of clustering. >> Some >> people just want load balancing and failover. Other people want things like >> distributed lock managers, processes that migrate between machines, virtual >> memory shared across machines, etc. > > OK, so what clustering efforts are currently underway, and what are their > objectives? The list archives are, like I say, dead, so please feel free to > shout at me if there is a bunch of documentation out there explaining this > that I've missed. There is no docco or anything cluster related in progress that I am aware of. Earlier efforts to kickstart clustering work usually fizzled out into discussions of what type of clustering did people really want. I.e., someone came in and said "let's do clustering!" and then we had a discussion about what that meant and it petered out after a while. Starting with a specific goal (web, mail, ftp, sql failover and load balancing) is, I think, a good way of avoiding "running off into the weeds". Good luck. :) -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 13:22:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB51A37B403; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15P8h1-000BFI-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:22:11 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15P8ix-0004Hc-00; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:24:11 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:24:11 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: John Baldwin Cc: Bob Bishop , freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Clustering efforts (was Re: Is this list dead?) Message-ID: <20010724212411.D83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <20010724201930.C83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from jhb@FreeBSD.org on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 12:29:20PM -0700 X-Scanner: exiscan *15P8h1-000BFI-00*$AK$jkW0EB8.PohICTUN.J4Sh.* Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 24, John Baldwin wrote: > There is no docco or anything cluster related in progress that I am aware of. > Earlier efforts to kickstart clustering work usually fizzled out into > discussions of what type of clustering did people really want. I.e., someone > came in and said "let's do clustering!" and then we had a discussion about what > that meant and it petered out after a while. Starting with a specific goal > (web, mail, ftp, sql failover and load balancing) is, I think, a good way of > avoiding "running off into the weeds". Good luck. :) So, is anybody else interested in working on this with me? I am prepared to put some work in on this in my own time, and once this workload is cleared, I am able to put some company time into any effort we come up with. I need to get some clear idea of getting this sort of clustering up and running within a few months anyway. -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 24 15:35:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F028E37B406; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:35:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with UUCP id f6OMZML19007; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:35:22 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] (eccles [194.32.164.2]) by seagoon.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21565; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:09:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20010724201930.C83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:09:16 +0100 To: John Baldwin From: Bob Bishop Subject: RE: Clustering efforts (was Re: Is this list dead?) Cc: Paul Robinson , freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 12:29 -0700 24/7/01, John Baldwin wrote: >There is no docco or anything cluster related in progress that I am aware of. >Earlier efforts to kickstart clustering work usually fizzled out into >discussions of what type of clustering did people really want. I.e., someone >came in and said "let's do clustering!" and then we had a discussion about >what >that meant and it petered out after a while. Starting with a specific goal >(web, mail, ftp, sql failover and load balancing) is, I think, a good way of >avoiding "running off into the weeds". Good luck. :) Just FTR, we are working dozens of self-contained computationally-intensive FORTRAN jobs which do little i/o and run for c.30hrs in about 100MB of RAM. We're using a cluster of 4x2x1GHz PIIIs running 4.3R. I've looked at GNU Queue which doesn't port very cleanly, and I'll be looking at the just-opensourced Sun Grid Engine stuff. I'll report progress to -cluster. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Wed Jul 25 5: 3:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02A437B40A; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 05:03:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06594; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:03:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010725130010.00bff590@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:02:22 +0100 To: Tony Maher , cluster@freebsd.org From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Fwd: Sun Grid Engine 5.2.3 Available. Now Open Source Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200107251124.f6PBOMv72077@dt.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 21:24 25/07/01 +1000, Tony Maher wrote: >Sorry originally sent this to stable by mistake. And -cluster should be getting this thread. >Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Ron Chen wrote: > > > > > > Sun Grid Engine goes opensource. See SGE home page: > > > > > > http://www.sun.com/gridware > > > > I see no source code there, only Solaris and Linux binaries. > >Click thru the licence agreement and at the very bottom of the page >you will find a source tar ball. Plus CVS access is supposed to be >available but I haven't tried that yet. > >I have downloaded, hacked a bit and compiled and semi-installed about >30mins ago. >On first appearance it does not have much more functionality than >NQS (ports/net/generic-nqs) except maybe some graphical interfaces >(which I have only seen in the docs so far). >Though the documentation is larger (I don't know about better ;-) > >I'll try to make a port of it but it may take a while. >Like generic-nqs it has funny way of building and installing :-( > >-- > Tony Maher > Systems Engineer email: tonym@biolateral.com.au > BioLateral Pty Ltd. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Wed Jul 25 12:16: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from beta.root-servers.ch (gamma.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B67F37B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 90882 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 19:15:42 -0000 Received: from dclient62-2-106-29.hispeed.ch (HELO athlon550) (62.2.106.29) by beta.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 19:15:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:16:59 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53bis) Educational Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <6335845483.20010725211659@buz.ch> To: Paul Robinson Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: Redundant setup on a budget?? In-Reply-To: <20010725151745.A36223@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7A7B@NETIVITY-FS> <20010724154211.C34017@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <1241681557.20010725114735@buz.ch> <20010725112250.N83511@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <1996903256.20010725131437@buz.ch> <20010725124353.A6548@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <2411019395.20010725142313@buz.ch> <20010725151745.A36223@jake.akitanet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Paul, Wednesday, July 25, 2001, 4:17:45 PM, you wrote: > On Jul 25, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: >> Actually, it's more solarisy ;-). AFAIK, it works on *BSD, >> Solaris and HPUX and Linux 2.0.x. But the state stuff is really >> interesting. > Solaris is even worse. Slowlaris, as I tend to call it. > Technically ipfw appears to have stateful extensions, > but it does them through "dynamic rules" and so people don't think > it's stateful. Didn't work for my LAN firewall without some awfully stupid ruleset. ipf does just great. >> ACk. But as said, I don't care for them on FS level. FS isn't >> meant to be used as a DB, for that we got DBMS installed. > And what if you want multiple MySQL/Postgres servers, writing to > the same DB? As said: use one master with write perms and as many slaves as you like which are responsible for the selects. > And you think NFS is flaky? That sounds pretty dodgy to me as > you're describing it, but it's your neck. This is just some sort of realtime backup. Good for sleeping well, you know. >> For DBMS, the only solution I can think of is faster >> hardware. Shared DBMS is a big mess. > Over lunch, this came up in conversation, and the only real problem > anybody could see was detecting dead-locks. Apart from that, it > shouldn't be too difficult. Not too difficult? I mean I don't know hell a lot about DBMS implementation, but if I were to do one, I'd surely cache immense amounts of data INSIDE my app which I surely wouldn't rebuild from HD after an statement that could affect it. Instead, I'd do the statement against the cache and write back the changes made to the cache to the HD. Now how does your cluster know when it should rebuild its caches? > All MTAs are NFS safe these days provding you have locking > implemented. On FBSD, that won't be possible unless you're tracking > -current. Otherwise, I bet I can break a qmail box in a cluster. You could try to hack OpenSSH, ACK. > Anyway, every admin with any sense is running Exim. I always thought that is some LAN quality software not up to handling thousands of mails per day ;-). The only alternative to qmail I can think of is postfix. >> I'd rather want FreeBSD to support TCP/IP over firewire ;-) > Ummmmm.... yeah. that sounds *great*. :-) Cheap and cheerful 400mbit/s. Anyone? > Which is why I want to try and fix it. Like I say, I'm doing this > because I want to. If it's possible to get working, I personally > believe that would be a useful contribution to the community. Oh if it were to work like you want, I'd probably use it. It's only that I don't think it would. Or if it would, it would be SLOW. > We come back to where we started. Replication is not a safe way to > deal with atomic transactions, and therefore is useless in anything > that is important to your business. MySQL *should*not* be looking > after this. Lower-layer transports and architectures should be > supporting it. Or at least, that's the way I'm progressing. IMHO not. MySQL knows better than the FS what it's operation will cause to the data. The FS just does the container for the MySQL data, remember, many older DBMS used raw partitions! >> Badly written daemon? > Because you need to lock spools against multiple popper's being > invoked of multiple machines at the same time. WTF does pop3d need to do with my spool, anyway? I only allow SMTP messing with it. > people (as it should be). At the moment, daemons have to implement > it in their own code. My argument is why NFS can't help it in a > clustered setup. My opinion about NFS is that it's best to stay away from it anyway. Security is way too weak. This might get better with NFSv4 but I currently don't see anything like this for FBSD. > come from. On the majority of systems, you'll be able to deliver > maybe 5,000 mails a day without ever needing locking. But the odd > mail will occasionally go missing. Been there, didn't buy the > t-shirt because it was a horrid place to be. :-) qmail does NOT lose ANY mail. Never (unless some really braindead MTA which is too stupid to resend a message for which it didn't get an OK or your fsync() is broken). >> stable enough for production. And I've got my doubts whether I >> would want to rely on a multiple master setup with MySQL 3.23. > Well, the tech I'm talking about is at a level where MySQL is the > most likely to break it, but because I'm talking about FS level, it > should benefit mail clusters and suchlike as well. As said, I don't see any need for locking with regards to mail clusters. About the only place it is really required are flat file based CGI scripts but I don't think it's my job to take care of this kind of badly written code. Need a DB? Use the DBMS. > I thought you said qpopper was a badly written daemon? Considering securityfocus shows 7 vulnerabilities, I'd say so, yes. > How do you think qmail does it if isn't using big, fat, expensive > lock files? "Why should I use maildir? Two words: no locks. An MUA can read and delete messages while new mail is being delivered: each message is stored in a separate file with a unique name, so it isn't affected by operations on other messages. An MUA doesn't have to worry about partially delivered mail: each message is safely written to disk in the tmp subdirectory before it is moved to new. The maildir format is reliable even over NFS." - http://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html Nice, uh? > of, but the point is that with NFS level locking your daemon > (whether it's an MTA or a UberWidget 2001 MultiVibrationAlert or > whatever), doesn't need to worry about it. Instead, I got to worry about the locking performance. Great. >> Oh I see, you follow our business model (lots of cheap servers are >> much better for your reliability than one expensive one). I just >> feel > Better for the wallet as well. :-) For damn sure. And it leaves much more places to do creative work. > THAT'S MY POINT! THAT is EXACTLY what I want to work on. I want to > try and work out what it would take (patching software, whatever, > if need be) to make this a relatively trivial exercise. I know > we're on -isp here, but this is exactly the sort of conversation we > should be having on -cluster and trying to make it happen. I think the DBMS should take care of this. Best approach, IMHO, would be to have global row/table/whatever locking for the DBMS and then a reliable replication protocol. Still, I can think of situations where not even a single host DBMS can guarantee the consistency of your data. > I think the current transaction support in the beta relies on > Berkley DB transaction support. Uhm yes. There's some other DB format which allows it as well but it's still far from being ACID, AFAIK. Best regards, Gabriel  ! !è -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5i iQEVAwUBO18NIMZa2WpymlDxAQEQIAgAiJUQciA8VlOqoq7KzvNR1XRWj0VDjsTF u13yDsHhEDvlSyLjMUXIvrDPMIgCe9n40MJNVKNTSLs5j9Xx+dJ74pcAnW42+6OC Av8WWlTJ7n5nHhoar4a37kVu2nNyiBHLRct6RavCk9gGeTrfgfZKhSfn7r6IHU8f XhvMozCfxIpYsPMqp9CxkvUtUQfM1RK72WTaly8WLczv80typL2FbRIbgExZx4cs 5AAgBUdhhJ3ZjiGR/QyYrMg82UNZ1Aal+C3OCen4vdKezI0c8igKQ3lfO5dhcDoe HT4G5WtdeYe7Vpz/J3KT1jPYaLXZj7gRI1u8aeZUJdBJ97Dcs9vMTg== =Pp5/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Wed Jul 25 15:10: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from elm.phenome.org (elm.phenome.org [194.153.169.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2855137B403; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joshua@roughtrade.net) Received: from localhost (joshua@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id f6PMA3CC015757; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:10:04 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:10:03 +0100 (BST) From: Joshua Goodall X-X-Sender: To: Cc: Subject: the freebsd-cluster cluster Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello folks. Despite my interest, I did not know that this list existed. It is not listed at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html nor is it available for searching, although there are archives (mostly empty!) at http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/archive/2001/freebsd-cluster/ Fixing this might evoke more interest in clustered BSD. J To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 26 5:22:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from beta.root-servers.ch (gamma.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EFF8837B405 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:22:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 23483 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 12:22:32 -0000 Received: from dclient62-2-106-29.hispeed.ch (HELO athlon550) (62.2.106.29) by beta.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 12:22:32 -0000 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:23:52 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53bis) Educational Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <19297458367.20010726142352@buz.ch> To: Alexander Leidinger Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: Redundant setup on a budget?? In-Reply-To: <200107261043.f6QAh3v02375@Magelan.Leidinger.net> References: <200107261043.f6QAh3v02375@Magelan.Leidinger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Alexander, Thursday, July 26, 2001, 12:43:02 PM, you wrote: >> Hmm. This is FreeBSD >4.0... Not exactly portable, but I suspect > We are talking in FreeBSD-isp... and you didn't want to use 3.x > because of the not fixable local root exploit (the fix is to > upgrade to 4.x). So what? Duuh. I sure as hell won't consider using 3.X but I was referring to the whole Linux crowd with the portability. OTOH, they already got enough solutions to solve the realtime replication mess anyway. BTW: Greg Lehey just contacted me about the nbd stuff and while he hasn't got the time to do it, he referred to some other company but those didn't yet even show up with a preliminary quote (but I suspect this is going to be very expensive). >> there's no such thing as a portable approach to something like >> this. > A portable solution would have to poll... and we didn't want to do > that, right? Exactly. Polling is way to slow. >> On the first glance it looks pretty complex but... > It depends... Read through it a bit more concentrated today and found it probably doesn't help anyway: EVFILT_VNODE Takes a file descriptor as the identifier and the events to watch for in fflags, and returns when one or more of the requested events occurs on the descriptor. The events to monitor are: I interpret this like it's good for monitoring single vnodes, but not entire filesystem. If somebody could get 5 CURRENT to build again (judging by current.freebsd.org, it didn't do so since the 18.6.01), I probably could work with http://people.freebsd.org/~abial/spy. The developer didn't answer my mail regarding a backport to 4.3 so far... >> I currently prefer to work on my monitoring system until it at >> least is alpha quality (i.e. enough for inhouse use ;-) but after >> that I'm interested in this kind of stuff. > Just call me back then. I probably forget about it but I'll try to remember ;-) Best regards, Gabriel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5i iQEVAwUBO1/9zMZa2WpymlDxAQHujAf+OkfSB3lLccpZc0EpfvE3qXFcP1ufScKo yo4Do50ESzjLmpCVQ58oqxkEDoTf8Al2U8PVNwxmVgv1GUEJs+aTxBX9pCCm+Cqp NUbV2KADTJeJvWILQVQpH9CBXyfpOPj06IWdRIPCvgZ5M9oucfRJSkOm8H+UPOyq G2nX395zviqMK8/2cF1yIM5byzVm+RlVh3Yff4owB+zEl/DE7uiF6+RxcIdW9BAs UCBrNAF8TaH6fcy4KnfOnblT3OuTUzDUmMAsVYjQyOmLt/zpttUex2rfyLVQI0zt QLJHuYGGZ4WJ2gDonMsM4JeJAE3a4IIM9p8t2C9bSyMadKmpP4FeYA== =C8kk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 26 5:26:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from beta.root-servers.ch (gamma.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6300737B405 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 23684 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 12:26:04 -0000 Received: from dclient62-2-106-29.hispeed.ch (HELO athlon550) (62.2.106.29) by beta.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 12:26:04 -0000 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:27:24 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53bis) Educational Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <13897670673.20010726142724@buz.ch> To: "Andy" Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: Redundant setup on a budget?? In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Andy, Tuesday, July 24, 2001, 3:57:59 PM, you wrote: > It's in the ports as of 4.3-RELEASE Uuh? I'm running 4.3 STABLE: root@local 14:23:52 /usr/src $ locate vrrpd root@local 14:23:56 /usr/src $ but to make things more strange, pkg_add -r vrrpd will install something... Will do some testing, that is sure. Best regards, Gabriel  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5i iQEVAwUBO1/+oMZa2WpymlDxAQEb1wgArSKD0puaex6Tic0EXCYBKAxa6kDIv+Sh w2G5KI8PZhnm/CXjjAsLSUJ4dkxNO4c94pWhY0mtBeHaYFSA/RaFgvwBWxLPAtqg q+nucDeMU4TyGy3yx8YaHd7LQZ+UCktIcydwzLXTWX6Rf9ngdPjrPY8grHTOof0o yS0dRlpZdrfns1R8qz7zmD94qGDcb8fR2jDkczUOpx4+KRUEuJsSEoolxPZ30vQS 3uaCJt4+zBqBtQK0edP4hXVLXKl9L+yHeBeyYe4fTADuq5+as7j4HCCbHoct+f5y HGqm/wk2kfq+3uH+rIGcdgflOJWluVgCumb86xz20AjZx5fwYrjQhw== =1jcR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 26 5:27:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from beta.root-servers.ch (gamma.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 07FE737B405 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:27:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 23752 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 12:27:13 -0000 Received: from dclient62-2-106-29.hispeed.ch (HELO athlon550) (62.2.106.29) by beta.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 12:27:13 -0000 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:28:34 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53bis) Educational Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <7097739872.20010726142834@buz.ch> To: Matthew Landry Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: Redundant setup on a budget?? In-Reply-To: <20010724140246.A89470@chaos.lelnet.com> References: <995980372.3b5d745405f48@Mail.SavvyWorld.Net> <20010724140246.A89470@chaos.lelnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Matthew, Tuesday, July 24, 2001, 8:02:47 PM, you wrote: >> It's in the ports as of 4.3-RELEASE > It's in /usr/ports/net/vrrp/. The original poster said > .../vrrpd/. Which doesn't exist. :) And fixing the typo is easier > than grabbing it from another source and porting it yourself. :) Oh well that explains it... But why does pkg_add -r vrrpd help, then? Best regards, Gabriel  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5i iQEVAwUBO1/+5cZa2WpymlDxAQHuEgf9FaQzRs7MnQVG1JlSZYqgW023KQ6eUsok mLBosEkOq3V6eK6enag9c4wwvCH4csZED6WkAE42oS0l/VqHf9V3KJKo0sT7exZt FuWJ+zNu8ey5Gs2h+3yRD9Iy1wBbr/ifygxyIXeYHnv6gcoHEvoztz7y7buSK2KM aDM8OkXhQtuau3XbriHY8cBmvBjiLoY5M07gV9fASXukvcg3XMxXkWLfFV1xBBYH lELfTX2M4ojZfz0O1Pa7ckVdSWYXIBmG4Xs7ZhjETcEZJnUih4yA4eKcovfkiVcv Rl/oiadAJbSjX4jmlr9v2uA55cbnrcJo7w1Q8caqnVb0xorTGCJOmg== =1OUv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 26 10:45:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mout1.freenet.de (mout1.freenet.de [194.97.50.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121AE37B406; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from [194.97.50.138] (helo=mx0.freenet.de) by mout1.freenet.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #3) id 15PpCM-00066w-00; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:45:22 +0200 Received: from b8040.pppool.de ([213.7.128.64] helo=Magelan.Leidinger.net) by mx0.freenet.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #3) id 15PpCK-0003zN-00; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:45:22 +0200 Received: from Leidinger.net (netchild@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Magelan.Leidinger.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6QHgXv06426; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:42:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from netchild@Leidinger.net) Message-Id: <200107261742.f6QHgXv06426@Magelan.Leidinger.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:42:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Alexander Leidinger Subject: Monitoring a FS with kevent (was: Re: Redundant setup on a budget??) To: gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org, jlemon@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <19297458367.20010726142352@buz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 26 Jul, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: >>> On the first glance it looks pretty complex but... >> It depends... > > Read through it a bit more concentrated today and found it probably > doesn't help anyway: > > EVFILT_VNODE Takes a file descriptor as the identifier and the > events > to watch for in fflags, and returns when one or > more of > the requested events occurs on the descriptor. > The events > to monitor are: > > I interpret this like it's good for monitoring single vnodes, but not > entire filesystem. Yes, you have to walk through the entire FS and request a notification for every file or directory. But perhaps the developer (CCed) is able to add the "monitor the entire FS for me" functionality in the kernel... Jonathan, we are talking about soft-realtime mirroring of an entire FS (or doing something like realtime-tripwire). Bye, Alexander. -- The computer revolution is over. The computers won. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net GPG fingerprint = C518 BC70 E67F 143F BE91 3365 79E2 9C60 B006 3FE7 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 26 10:58:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from beta.root-servers.ch (gamma.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02F1537B408 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:58:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 42327 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 17:58:24 -0000 Received: from dclient62-2-106-29.hispeed.ch (HELO athlon550) (62.2.106.29) by beta.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 17:58:24 -0000 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:59:42 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53bis) Educational Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <72117607730.20010726195942@buz.ch> To: Alexander Leidinger Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org, jlemon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Monitoring a FS with kevent (was: Re: Redundant setup on a budget??) In-Reply-To: <200107261742.f6QHgXv06426@Magelan.Leidinger.net> References: <200107261742.f6QHgXv06426@Magelan.Leidinger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Alexander, Thursday, July 26, 2001, 7:42:32 PM, you wrote: >> I interpret this like it's good for monitoring single vnodes, but >> not entire filesystem. > Yes, you have to walk through the entire FS and request a > notification for every file or directory. But perhaps the developer > (CCed) is able to add the "monitor the entire FS for me" > functionality in the kernel... Jonathan, we are talking about > soft-realtime mirroring of an entire FS (or doing something like > realtime-tripwire). I'd very much like to see such a feature. Even better would it be, if it were possible to also capture permission changes in the same go. I've been thinking about whether it would make sense to just patch libc to log this kind of stuff? Or are there other interfaces that speak to the system calls directly so that it would be needed to patch those instead? Anyway, this is nothing I'd be greedy to do as it can result in big amounts of really serious troubles (especially as my C knowledge is virtually zero). Best regards, Gabriel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5i iQEVAwUBO2BMhcZa2WpymlDxAQG0SggAoVOZPv9kq8QqvzTzMF1y+FRjMeAmMvRY pYEM55cAXdPigUc2/ngvKR7E7KZTKQOFsm2Q7B1hDhezFwajfHUEBQQYdrbwvKnt CMu0ZrwMRdH6yzudkfqJC6gF0WNvctlrlgqKLQ0xSV1xbXkOeB+Ti/DTGjiwXwnY 27xOSiWI+IiI0gM0IaGJpoRzLySjRCWN0XXEzQRb1N2Za1aaJAKqQVZFWYJmqox+ xUyAPKJjeWSlhPgxRGwV+1SIRiQQF4mWzo2QB6uOHfl9zc79Ve7Iyybc6CIHhT09 KZ3fGGbg7naU4+v8FlBu/s0iTLOMx6DaMx0r5ozAj1UoN6/9U042BA== =YuWB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 26 11:17:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from prism.flugsvamp.com (cb58709-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.17.241.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B930237B409; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:17:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@flugsvamp.com) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by prism.flugsvamp.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f6QIGAB27185; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:16:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jlemon) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:16:09 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Alexander Leidinger Cc: gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org, jlemon@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Monitoring a FS with kevent (was: Re: Redundant setup on a budget??) Message-ID: <20010726131609.K7716@prism.flugsvamp.com> References: <19297458367.20010726142352@buz.ch> <200107261742.f6QHgXv06426@Magelan.Leidinger.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200107261742.f6QHgXv06426@Magelan.Leidinger.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:42:32PM +0200, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > On 26 Jul, Gabriel Ambuehl wrote: > > >>> On the first glance it looks pretty complex but... > >> It depends... > > > > Read through it a bit more concentrated today and found it probably > > doesn't help anyway: > > > > EVFILT_VNODE Takes a file descriptor as the identifier and the > > events > > to watch for in fflags, and returns when one or > > more of > > the requested events occurs on the descriptor. > > The events > > to monitor are: > > > > I interpret this like it's good for monitoring single vnodes, but not > > entire filesystem. > > Yes, you have to walk through the entire FS and request a notification > for every file or directory. But perhaps the developer (CCed) is able to > add the "monitor the entire FS for me" functionality in the kernel... > > Jonathan, we are talking about soft-realtime mirroring of an entire FS > (or doing something like realtime-tripwire). That functionality would be nice to have (e.g.: for something like cvsupd), but currently isn't handled by kqueue(). As described above, EVFILT_VNODE monitors files (or directories) so you'd have to open each directory you wanted to monitor. This isn't ideal; suggestions on how things *should* work would be appreciated. One of the main problems is that when the actual event happens (at the vnode level), you only have the inode to identify things by, the pathname used is long gone. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 26 12: 8:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from beta.root-servers.ch (gamma.root-servers.ch [195.49.62.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 75CDE37B403 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gabriel_ambuehl@buz.ch) Received: (qmail 45213 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 19:08:29 -0000 Received: from dclient62-2-106-29.hispeed.ch (HELO athlon550) (62.2.106.29) by beta.root-servers.ch with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 19:08:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:09:50 +0200 From: Gabriel Ambuehl X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53bis) Educational Organization: BUZ Internet Services X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <34121816613.20010726210950@buz.ch> To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: Alexander Leidinger , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org, Subject: Re[2]: Monitoring a FS with kevent (was: Re: Redundant setup on a budget??) In-Reply-To: <20010726131609.K7716@prism.flugsvamp.com> References: <19297458367.20010726142352@buz.ch> <200107261742.f6QHgXv06426@Magelan.Leidinger.net> <20010726131609.K7716@prism.flugsvamp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello Jonathan, Thursday, July 26, 2001, 8:16:09 PM, you wrote: >> Jonathan, we are talking about soft-realtime mirroring of an >> entire FS (or doing something like realtime-tripwire). > That functionality would be nice to have (e.g.: for something like > cvsupd), but currently isn't handled by kqueue(). As described > above, EVFILT_VNODE monitors files (or directories) so you'd have > to > open each directory you wanted to monitor. Clearly a non starter... > This isn't ideal; suggestions on how things *should* work would be > appreciated. One of the main problems is that when the actual > event happens (at the vnode level), you only have the inode to > identify > things by, the pathname used is long gone. Well, I don't know (as I couldn't get it to build on 4.3 and 5.0 doesn't want to build...) whether this might help, but spy on http://people.freebsd.org/~abial takes an interesting approach: Generally, it seems to provide a facility to monitor arbitrary system calls, many of them including arguments. Now if someone monitors all open() call including arguments, it should be reasonably easy to write a log with changes to files for simple programs that open(), write(), close(). However, this obviously comes to the limits with daemons that normally keep their files open their whole "life" and might be writing times and times to them, so it probably would need to have some monitoring of the write() call too. How expensive is it to get the path of a file descriptor (not sure whether this can even be done with the current facilities, might need some array containing the descriptor numbers and the pathnames which could be maintained by messing around with open()/close())? As already said, I've been playing with the idea of letting libc do the logging as it knows the exact arguments to the open() calls (if mode != r, a modification is probable...) but here, the identical problem with daemons arises. A radically different approach would be to cache the entire directory structure in RAM which should allow dramatically faster polling at the cost of MB's of RAM but I think this isn't the optimal approach... Best regards, Gabriel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5i iQEVAwUBO2Bc8sZa2WpymlDxAQHtaQgAzK4oYumnv0nL0xcGT6EZnvaO3Nsavgse krwSbLngw6wMYK7gKVqiXoAu7PmXMLoPfxU8dFbWREmDSn+27knNWYeoDt+Jh6Nd kjwh0iJR4fGkCaWPUWv4S/cU8Pn2xelMsqZxu1CTscF0Xe7ZjV1xtaGEyeAvAJPf XWM/c3uxf/dXoBjB9teF+7VWSYvZfUzcLezZAI6fVMi9XpfhVOJrW7r6hOus3xEG gjzzu4puUQQpB0C4/s7PL4SQkMh2aTheOcbJz2PHOuzPdJCEfetlaW1kGePTeZbr eqVUAVKMUMp+o/q2g+4twC/7MIBsRiDRrVAPjRMj4I4E6jXkDegPvg== =Vl9P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 26 15: 2:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from elm.phenome.org (elm.phenome.org [194.153.169.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6BB37B406; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:02:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joshua@roughtrade.net) Received: from localhost (joshua@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id f6QM26CC010975; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:02:06 +0100 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:02:06 +0100 (BST) From: Joshua Goodall X-X-Sender: To: Alexander Leidinger Cc: , , , Subject: Re: Monitoring a FS with kevent (was: Re: Redundant setup on a budget??) In-Reply-To: <200107261742.f6QHgXv06426@Magelan.Leidinger.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Yes, you have to walk through the entire FS and request a notification > for every file or directory. But perhaps the developer (CCed) is able to > add the "monitor the entire FS for me" functionality in the kernel... The snapshot support in -current does just this for its own purposes. That is very much Kirk McKusicks' domain right now. Whether it could be leveraged into a remote replication facility, I don't know. Start at http://www.mckusick.com/softdep/index.html J To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message