From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Oct 27 13:27:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0BA37B401 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 13:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A598B43E88 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 13:27:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19007; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:27:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g9RLRKo18878; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:27:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15804.23096.674450.355772@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:27:20 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Cc: re@feebsd.org Subject: alpha 5.0 BOOTMFS way too fat .. X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't know if its the new toolchain, or if its general kernel bloat, but a 5.0 BOOTMFS is nowhere near fitting onto a floppy: % ls -lR /mnt/ total 1205 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Oct 25 21:37 boot/ -rw------- 1 root wheel 1228800 Oct 25 21:37 kernel.gz /mnt/boot: total 198 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 640 Oct 25 21:37 device.hints -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 196128 Oct 25 21:37 loader* -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 229 Oct 25 21:37 loader.rc And the size of BOOTMFS is: % ls -l kernel.gz -rwxr-xr-x 1 gallatin wheel 1396562 Oct 27 16:17 kernel.gz* I'm going to start trying to throw things over the side to lighten the load, but I'm a little unsure how the driver floppy works. May I jettison all drivers which are modules? Or do I need to keep all possible scsi drivers required to boot the machine (in case we booted from a SCSI CD)? Or does a different kernel get used for CD boots? Or can /boot/loader make itself useful and load the drivers? Thanks, Drew PS: My peeking at this in no way represents a commitment. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Oct 27 14:17:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C9BB37B401; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A0C43E75; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20590; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g9RMHFf19003; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:17:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15804.26091.441347.376760@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:17:15 -0500 (EST) To: re@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: alpha 5.0 BOOTMFS way too fat .. In-Reply-To: <15804.23096.674450.355772@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> References: <15804.23096.674450.355772@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Only after throwing out valuable things like nearly all drivers (including ahc, mlx, tga), INET6, NFSCLINET can I get a kernel which fits: % ls -l kernel.gz -rwxr-xr-x 1 gallatin wheel 1223511 Oct 27 17:10 kernel.gz* I've appended a patch against the BOOTMFS that make release currently generates. Are there any binutils options to make things smaller which we're not currently using? Maybe we need to go to a three-floppy install? (loader on first floppy, kernel on second, drivers on third) Drew Andrew Gallatin writes: > > I don't know if its the new toolchain, or if its general kernel bloat, > but a 5.0 BOOTMFS is nowhere near fitting onto a floppy: > > % ls -lR /mnt/ > total 1205 > drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Oct 25 21:37 boot/ > -rw------- 1 root wheel 1228800 Oct 25 21:37 kernel.gz > > /mnt/boot: > total 198 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 640 Oct 25 21:37 device.hints > -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 196128 Oct 25 21:37 loader* > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 229 Oct 25 21:37 loader.rc > > And the size of BOOTMFS is: > > % ls -l kernel.gz > -rwxr-xr-x 1 gallatin wheel 1396562 Oct 27 16:17 kernel.gz* > > > I'm going to start trying to throw things over the side to lighten the > load, but I'm a little unsure how the driver floppy works. > > May I jettison all drivers which are modules? Or do I need to keep > all possible scsi drivers required to boot the machine (in case we > booted from a SCSI CD)? Or does a different kernel get used for CD > boots? Or can /boot/loader make itself useful and load the drivers? > > Thanks, > > Drew > > PS: My peeking at this in no way represents a commitment. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message --- BOOTMFS.release Sun Oct 27 16:27:38 2002 +++ BOOTMFS Sun Oct 27 17:10:24 2002 @@ -47,13 +47,13 @@ # AlphaServer 1200 (Tincup) options INET #InterNETworking -options INET6 #IPv6 communications protocols +#options INET6 #IPv6 communications protocols options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem -options UFS_ACL #Support for access control lists +#options UFS_ACL #Support for access control lists options MD_ROOT #MD is a potential root device -options NFSCLIENT #Network Filesystem Client +#options NFSCLIENT #Network Filesystem Client options CD9660 #ISO 9660 Filesystem -options PSEUDOFS #Pseudo-filesystem framework +#options PSEUDOFS #Pseudo-filesystem framework options COMPAT_43 #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] options COMPAT_FREEBSD4 #Compatible with FreeBSD4 options SCSI_DELAY=15000 #Delay (in ms) before probing SCSI @@ -73,9 +73,9 @@ device atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives # SCSI Controllers -device ahc # AHA2940 and onboard AIC7xxx devices +#device ahc # AHA2940 and onboard AIC7xxx devices device isp # Qlogic family -device mpt # LSI-Logic MPT-Fusion +#device mpt # LSI-Logic MPT-Fusion device sym # NCR/Symbios Logic (newer chipsets + those of `ncr') # SCSI peripherals @@ -85,7 +85,7 @@ device cd # CD # RAID controllers -device mlx # Mylex DAC960 family +#device mlx # Mylex DAC960 family # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse device atkbdc # AT keyboard controller @@ -93,7 +93,7 @@ device psm # PS/2 mouse device vga # VGA video card driver -device tga # TGA video card driver +#device tga # TGA video card driver # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console @@ -109,7 +109,7 @@ # PCI Ethernet NICs. # PCI Ethernet NICs that use the common MII bus controller code. -device miibus # MII bus support +#device miibus # MII bus support # Pseudo devices - the number indicates how many units to allocated. device loop # Network loopback To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Oct 27 22: 3:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7237737B401; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.freebsdmall.com (ns1.freebsdmall.com [66.220.2.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBA443E4A; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:03:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from murray@freebsdmall.com) Received: by mail.freebsdmall.com (Postfix, from userid 2074) id 87A612E8B3; Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:03:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:03:46 -0800 From: Murray Stokely To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: re@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: alpha 5.0 BOOTMFS way too fat .. Message-ID: <20021027220346.B58625@freebsdmall.com> References: <15804.23096.674450.355772@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <15804.26091.441347.376760@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <15804.26091.441347.376760@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu>; from gallatin@cs.duke.edu on Sun, Oct 27, 2002 at 05:17:15PM -0500 X-GPG-Key-ID: 1024D/0E451F7D X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: E2CA 411D DD44 53FD BB4B 3CB5 B4D7 10A2 0E45 1F7D Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Oct 27, 2002 at 05:17:15PM -0500, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > Maybe we need to go to a three-floppy install? (loader on first > floppy, kernel on second, drivers on third) We already do this for i386 and it is documented in drivers.conf(5). We just need to update drivers.conf to change some of the '2's in the third column to '3's and everything should work fine. - Murray To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 28 9:59:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32AD537B499; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E100243E77; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:59:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from d9999@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (ool-18bd986b.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.152.107]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002)) with SMTP id <0H4P00DMHDXKSD@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:58:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:58:59 +0000 (PM) From: lana Subject: info<<< To: awal@tworld.com Message-id: <0H4P00DYLDY9SD@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> X-Mailer: L.C. Enterprises - Email Extractor 2002 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi ,,your home based business opportunity sounds interesting .. got few questions pleasecall me 614-837-8112 thank..you LANA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 28 15:45:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5AE37B406 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:45:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au (digger1.defence.gov.au [203.5.217.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA9B43E42 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:45:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Alex.Wilkinson@dsto.defence.gov.au) Received: from dsto-ms2.dsto.defence.gov.au (dsto-ms2.dsto.defence.gov.au [131.185.2.150]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g9SNhCe19767 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:13:13 +1030 (CST) Received: from muttley.dsto.defence.gov.au (unverified) by dsto-ms2.dsto.defence.gov.au (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:12:58 +1030 Received: from salex001.dsto.defence.gov.au (salex001.dsto.defence.gov.au [131.185.2.9]) by muttley.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3.LMD.990513) with ESMTP id KAA01558 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:09:02 +1030 (CST) Received: from squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au ([131.185.75.211]) by salex001.dsto.defence.gov.au with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id VW7LLLK6; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:10:17 +1030 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:55:49 +1030 (CST) From: "Wilkinson,Alex" X-X-Sender: wilkinsa@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au Reply-To: Alex.Wilkinson@dsto.defence.gov.au To: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: [hardware] Tagged Command Queuing or Larger Cache ? Message-ID: <20021029095516.G91719-100000@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy Crew, I am about to buy a new hard disk for my FreeBSD work station. Since FreeBSD's ATA drivers implement Tagged Command Queuing and IBM make the only ATA disks that implement tagged command queuing ( ie since the 60GXP family ), an IBM 40GB 120GXP "looks like" the best solution. However, my question is: Do the benifits from a having a larger disk cache such as the "WD 40GB 7200RPM w/8MB Cache" has, outweigh the benefits of Tagged Command Queuing ? Thanks - aW To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 28 18: 9:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64BBF37B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:09:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail2.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E7743E88 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:09:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: from sydsmtp01.alcatel.com.au (IDENT:root@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alcanet.com.au (8.12.4/8.12.4/Alcanet1.3) with ESMTP id g9T29hC5011609; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:09:44 +1100 Received: from gsmx07.alcatel.com.au ([139.188.20.247]) by sydsmtp01.alcatel.com.au (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with ESMTP id 2002102913094409:42218 ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:09:44 +1100 Received: from gsmx07.alcatel.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gsmx07.alcatel.com.au (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9T29hRL060872; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:09:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsmx07.alcatel.com.au (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g9T29h2Q060871; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:09:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:09:43 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: "Wilkinson,Alex" Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [hardware] Tagged Command Queuing or Larger Cache ? Message-ID: <20021029020943.GI6446@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: "Wilkinson,Alex" , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20021029095516.G91719-100000@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20021029095516.G91719-100000@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on SYDSMTP01/AlcatelAustralia(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 29/10/2002 01:09:44 PM, Serialize by Router on SYDSMTP01/AlcatelAustralia(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 29/10/2002 01:09:45 PM, Serialize complete at 29/10/2002 01:09:45 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-Oct-29 09:55:49 +1030, "Wilkinson,Alex" wrote: >Do the benifits from a having a larger disk cache such as the "WD >40GB 7200RPM w/8MB Cache" has, outweigh the benefits of Tagged >Command Queuing ? This is somewhat off-topic for -alpha... The quick answer is: "Not if you value your data". The longer answer is: Without tagged queueing, the device driver cannot determine when the data for a particular write command has been committed to the media (as against just being stored in the cache). Soft-updates (in particular) relies on accurate write ordering to ensure that the filesystem on disk is always consistent. Having a volatile cache in the disk breaks this assumption - if you have a power failure, you don't know what was lost. The safe states are: tagging & caching or no-caching (which is slow). Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 28 19: 5:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DE437B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:05:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from canning.wemm.org (canning.wemm.org [192.203.228.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DC443E42 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:05:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by canning.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873BF2A88D; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:05:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Peter Jeremy Cc: "Wilkinson,Alex" , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [hardware] Tagged Command Queuing or Larger Cache ? In-Reply-To: <20021029020943.GI6446@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:05:29 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20021029030529.873BF2A88D@canning.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2002-Oct-29 09:55:49 +1030, "Wilkinson,Alex" wrote: > >Do the benifits from a having a larger disk cache such as the "WD > >40GB 7200RPM w/8MB Cache" has, outweigh the benefits of Tagged > >Command Queuing ? > > This is somewhat off-topic for -alpha... > > The quick answer is: "Not if you value your data". > > The longer answer is: Without tagged queueing, the device driver > cannot determine when the data for a particular write command has been > committed to the media (as against just being stored in the cache). > Soft-updates (in particular) relies on accurate write ordering to > ensure that the filesystem on disk is always consistent. Having a > volatile cache in the disk breaks this assumption - if you have a > power failure, you don't know what was lost. > > The safe states are: tagging & caching or no-caching (which is slow). Actually, not even then. Modern IDE drives only write entire tracks at a time. If you modify a single sector, then the drive has to read the entire track into the buffer, in-place edit the sector, and then rewrite the entire track. As you can imagine, this violates the basic assumptions of FFS and softdep. They assume that only sectors that are written to are at risk, and do all their ordering based on that assumption. But the assumption is completely bogus. Even with no-caching it doesn't work because if the drive loses power after only having written half of the track, then you risk losing the rest - the track is written from "wherever", and not any index marks. ie: the track is just as likely to overwrite the second half of the sectors first, and when you lose power, you have two copies of the first half of the sectors. Basically you have to assume that the entire track and all of the nearby sectors could get lost or trashed. And that completely blows FFS's assumptions out of the water. And what is worse, is that many SCSI disks are similar these days. But not all of them (I'm told). Basically if you get a power failure, you are totally screwed. softdep will save you from a hard OS level lockup/reset though. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Oct 28 22:54:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8533537B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:54:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3026D43E42 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:54:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0225.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.225] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 186QGt-0006ey-00; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:54:39 -0800 Message-ID: <3DBE3062.30F317A2@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:53:22 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex.Wilkinson@dsto.defence.gov.au Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [hardware] Tagged Command Queuing or Larger Cache ? References: <20021029095516.G91719-100000@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Wilkinson,Alex" wrote: > Do the benifits from a having a larger disk cache such as the "WD 40GB > 7200RPM w/8MB Cache" has, outweigh the benefits of Tagged Command > Queuing ? No. You have to turn off write caching, or guarantee that the write request is not indicated as completed to the disk controller until the write has been committed to stable storage, if you want it to be reliable. Therefore, you don't get significant speed of of a larger cache, unless you are doing a lot of random reading, with little or no writes (e.g. noatime or mounted read-only, so that metadata is not written as a result of the random reads). In general, you are screwed anyway, for reasons noted elsewhere this thread by Peter Wemm. What you need is a logging FS that logs whole tracks at a time, which means that it needs to know the physical geometry of the disk, so that it knows where individual track boundaries are; this is mode page 2 in SCSI; I don't think you can get this data from an IDE drive, which is going to claim that it's real geometry is the same as its fictitious geometry, even when you confront it and call it a liar to its face. It's going to be a lot of work, and by the time you are done doing it, the disk manufacturers will have done something new and stupid to make the hardware unreliable, even in the face of this type of software workaround to their existing stupidty. Have fun with it, though... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 2: 9:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD5137B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:09:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C2943E8A for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:09:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [IPv6:3ffe:400:8d0:301:200:92ff:fe9b:20e7]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9TA8vWQ067308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:08:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (cicely8.cicely.de [10.1.1.10]) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9TA8uCu025603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:08:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9TA8ul8016274; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:08:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id g9TA8spg016273; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:08:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:08:54 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: Peter Jeremy Cc: "Wilkinson,Alex" , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [hardware] Tagged Command Queuing or Larger Cache ? Message-ID: <20021029100853.GI13186@cicely8.cicely.de> Reply-To: ticso@cicely.de References: <20021029095516.G91719-100000@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20021029020943.GI6446@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021029020943.GI6446@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cicely8.cicely.de 5.0-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 01:09:43PM +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2002-Oct-29 09:55:49 +1030, "Wilkinson,Alex" wrote: > >Do the benifits from a having a larger disk cache such as the "WD > >40GB 7200RPM w/8MB Cache" has, outweigh the benefits of Tagged > >Command Queuing ? > > This is somewhat off-topic for -alpha... To bring it back to alpha. I noticed that setting values in kernel.conf are ignored on -current alpha. I had to change the drivers default value to get tagged queueing. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 2:30:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CF937B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A6143E77 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:30:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [IPv6:3ffe:400:8d0:301:200:92ff:fe9b:20e7]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9TAU8WQ067547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:30:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (cicely8.cicely.de [10.1.1.10]) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9TAU7Cu025686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:30:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9TAU7l8016338; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:30:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id g9TAU68q016337; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:30:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:30:06 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: Peter Jeremy Cc: "Wilkinson,Alex" , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [hardware] Tagged Command Queuing or Larger Cache ? Message-ID: <20021029103006.GJ13186@cicely8.cicely.de> Reply-To: ticso@cicely.de References: <20021029095516.G91719-100000@squirm.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20021029020943.GI6446@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> <20021029100853.GI13186@cicely8.cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021029100853.GI13186@cicely8.cicely.de> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cicely8.cicely.de 5.0-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 11:08:54AM +0100, Bernd Walter wrote: > On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 01:09:43PM +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > On 2002-Oct-29 09:55:49 +1030, "Wilkinson,Alex" wrote: > > >Do the benifits from a having a larger disk cache such as the "WD > > >40GB 7200RPM w/8MB Cache" has, outweigh the benefits of Tagged > > >Command Queuing ? > > > > This is somewhat off-topic for -alpha... > > To bring it back to alpha. > I noticed that setting values in kernel.conf are ignored on -current > alpha. > I had to change the drivers default value to get tagged queueing. I meant loader.conf, but shortly after writing this I've found the reason. There was a very old stall loader.rc on that machine. So - yes it works now - sorry for confusion. Shouldn't mergemaster take care of loader.rc? -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 6:23:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E29637B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 06:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FC043E3B for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 06:23:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9TEMqrF091522 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:22:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: -current testers needed (no-destructive test) From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:22:52 +0100 Message-ID: <91521.1035901372@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I need as many as possible of the people who run alpha/-current to run a pair of simple tests. You need an up to date -current kernel. cd /usr/src/lib/libdisk make obj ; make depend ; make tst01 for each of your harddisks run: echo quit | /usr/obj/`pwd`/tst01 $DISK for instance: echo quit | /usr/obj/`pwd`/tst01 da0 If any of the expected partitions are missing, please send me the following debugging information: sysctl -n kern.geom.conftxt dd if=/dev/$DISK count=2 | uuencode $USER.$DISK.uu the output of the tst01 command above. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 11:52:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939C137B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from trillian.santala.org (ip212-226-173-33.adsl.kpnqwest.fi [212.226.173.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 78ACD43E75 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:52:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jake@iki.fi) Received: (qmail 414 invoked by uid 11053); 29 Oct 2002 19:52:35 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 Oct 2002 19:52:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:52:35 +0200 (EET) From: Jarkko Santala X-X-Sender: jake@trillian.santala.org To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: alpha+4.7+kernfs? Message-ID: <20021029214939.G346-100000@trillian.santala.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, Is kernfs supposed to work on 4.7 on alpha? I got an kernel trap after upgrading to 4.7 right at the first boot just after fsck. Removing kernfs from fstab also removed the trap. I'm running AlphaPC164 EV56. -jake -- Jarkko Santala http://www.iki.fi/~jake/ System Administrator 2001:670:83:f08::/64 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 12: 0:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4ED237B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from atom.no-ip.org (203-79-74-170.adsl.paradise.net.nz [203.79.74.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968BA43E7B for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:00:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atom@atom.no-ip.org) Received: from atomlaptop ([192.168.0.10]) by atom.no-ip.org ([127.0.0.1]) with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v6.0.7.R) for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:59:51 +1300 Message-ID: <004701c27f85$e6dcc080$0a00a8c0@atomnet> Reply-To: "Anthony O'Meara" From: "Anthony O'Meara" To: Subject: Error installing FreeBSD on Alpha Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:00:59 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authenticated-Sender: atom@atom.no-ip.org X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.0.10 X-Return-Path: atom@atom.no-ip.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm trying to install FreeBSD on an AlphaServer 300 4/266, booting from floppy, it has failed several times, I have tried several floppy disks, I also have just updated the firmware to the latest but still no luck! From console (>>> ) I enter "boot dva0" it does a few things, then crashes at: Loading /boot/loader - halt CPU 0 halt code = 2 kernel stack not valid halt PC = 0 boot failure I have installed NetBSD but would prefer FreeBSD! NetBSD installed without much trouble! What is wrong, PLEASE HELP! Thanks To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 14:54:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FEC37B401; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A92643E6E; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:54:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21509; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:54:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g9TMruV22264; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:53:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15807.4484.503182.946589@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:53:56 -0500 (EST) To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current testers needed (no-destructive test) In-Reply-To: <91521.1035901372@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <91521.1035901372@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > I need as many as possible of the people who run alpha/-current to > run a pair of simple tests. > If any of the expected partitions are missing, please send me > the following debugging information: Is "c" (as in /dev/da0c) expected? Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 14:58:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33EAF37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787D043E7B for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:58:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21647; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:58:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g9TMvlp22273; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:57:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15807.4715.826890.763769@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:57:47 -0500 (EST) To: "Anthony O'Meara" Cc: Subject: Re: Error installing FreeBSD on Alpha In-Reply-To: <004701c27f85$e6dcc080$0a00a8c0@atomnet> References: <004701c27f85$e6dcc080$0a00a8c0@atomnet> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anthony O'Meara writes: > > halt code = 2 > kernel stack not valid halt > PC = 0 > boot failure > What is wrong, PLEASE HELP! The loader is apparently broken on your ancient hardware. What version are you attempting to install? Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 15:35:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8462E37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:35:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from atom.no-ip.org (203-79-74-170.adsl.paradise.net.nz [203.79.74.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E6043E42 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:35:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atom@atom.no-ip.org) Received: from atomlaptop ([192.168.0.10]) by atom.no-ip.org ([127.0.0.1]) with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v6.0.7.R) for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:34:38 +1300 Message-ID: <002301c27fa3$e9745fb0$0a00a8c0@atomnet> Reply-To: "Anthony O'Meara" From: "Anthony O'Meara" To: "Andrew Gallatin" Cc: References: <004701c27f85$e6dcc080$0a00a8c0@atomnet> <15807.4715.826890.763769@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Subject: Re: Error installing FreeBSD on Alpha Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:35:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Authenticated-Sender: atom@atom.no-ip.org X-MDRemoteIP: 192.168.0.10 X-Return-Path: atom@atom.no-ip.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The loader is apparently broken on your ancient hardware. What > version are you attempting to install? > > Drew > Thanks I downloaded the floppy images from FreeBSD FTP site, not sure what version! I'm going to try and download several different floppy images now, I wasn't sure what was causing the error, I thought it might have been hardware! Surely it must still work on an older Alpha, (I got FreeBSD working on a Pentium 100mhz, which is a lot older) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 16:51:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A7737B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:51:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9673443E42 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:51:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25879; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:51:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g9U0ojF22358; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:50:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15807.11493.826652.148233@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:50:45 -0500 (EST) To: "Anthony O'Meara" Cc: Subject: Re: Error installing FreeBSD on Alpha In-Reply-To: <002301c27fa3$e9745fb0$0a00a8c0@atomnet> References: <004701c27f85$e6dcc080$0a00a8c0@atomnet> <15807.4715.826890.763769@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <002301c27fa3$e9745fb0$0a00a8c0@atomnet> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anthony O'Meara writes: > > The loader is apparently broken on your ancient hardware. What > > version are you attempting to install? > > > > Drew > > > > Thanks > > I downloaded the floppy images from FreeBSD FTP site, not sure what version! > > I'm going to try and download several different floppy images now, I wasn't > sure what was causing the error, I thought it might have been hardware! > > Surely it must still work on an older Alpha, (I got FreeBSD working on a > Pentium 100mhz, which is a lot older) Let's just say that nobody who's really in the loop tests on old, slow hardware very much, so if there is a problem, its much less likely to get caught early as we have much fewer users than the x86 port. Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 19: 1:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945F237B406 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B831043E88 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:01:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 9F851534E; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:01:41 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Jarkko Santala Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: alpha+4.7+kernfs? References: <20021029214939.G346-100000@trillian.santala.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:01:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20021029214939.G346-100000@trillian.santala.org> (Jarkko Santala's message of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:52:35 +0200 (EET)") Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jarkko Santala writes: > Is kernfs supposed to work on 4.7 on alpha? Uh, I thought I'd removed that obscenity ages ago, but apparently I only did it in -CURRENT. You don't need kernfs, so it doesn't really matter if it works or not. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Oct 29 21:45:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9A337B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:45:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9919A43E77 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:45:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9U5j6rF005903; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:45:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current testers needed (no-destructive test) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:53:56 EST." <15807.4484.503182.946589@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:45:06 +0100 Message-ID: <5902.1035956706@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <15807.4484.503182.946589@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu>, Andrew Gallatin writes: > >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > > > I need as many as possible of the people who run alpha/-current to > > run a pair of simple tests. > > > > If any of the expected partitions are missing, please send me > > the following debugging information: > >Is "c" (as in /dev/da0c) expected? Depends, it show something like two lines at the top, almost identical, then one line for each parititon plus a line for any chunk of unassigned space. Make sure you have the latest libdisk commits in there. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 30 5:40:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE40337B401 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 05:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B597A43E75 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 05:40:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19042; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:40:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g9UDdun23524; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:39:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15807.57644.25332.225787@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:39:56 -0500 (EST) To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -current testers needed (no-destructive test) In-Reply-To: <5902.1035956706@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <15807.4484.503182.946589@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <5902.1035956706@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > In message <15807.4484.503182.946589@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu>, Andrew Gallatin > writes: > > > >Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > > > > > I need as many as possible of the people who run alpha/-current to > > > run a pair of simple tests. > > > > > > > If any of the expected partitions are missing, please send me > > > the following debugging information: > > > >Is "c" (as in /dev/da0c) expected? > > Depends, it show something like two lines at the top, almost identical, > then one line for each parititon plus a line for any chunk of unassigned > space. Ok. Is this what you expect: Debug_Disk(da1) bios_geom=0/255/63 = 0 boot1=0x0, bootmgr=0x0 --> 0x120030080 0 17783240 17783239 da1 - ?? 0x00 --> 0x120030100 0 17783240 17783239 da1 - freebsd 0x00 --> 0x120030200 0 524288 524287 da1a (null) part 0x00 --> 0x120030380 524288 2097152 2621439 da1b (null) part 0x00 --> 0x120030300 2621440 401408 3022847 da1e (null) part 0x00 --> 0x120030280 3022848 2457600 5480447 da1f (null) part 0x00 --> 0x120030180 5480448 12302792 17783239 da1g (null) part 0x00 Disklabel 'sez: # /dev/da1c: type: SCSI disk: da1 label: flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 63 tracks/cylinder: 255 sectors/cylinder: 16065 cylinders: 1106 sectors/unit: 17783240 rpm: 3600 interleave: 1 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 8 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] a: 524288 0 4.2BSD 2048 16384 94 # (Cyl. 0 - 32*) b: 2097152 524288 swap # (Cyl. 32*- 163*) c: 17783240 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 1106*) e: 401408 2621440 4.2BSD 2048 16384 97 # (Cyl. 163*- 188*) f: 2457600 3022848 4.2BSD 2048 16384 89 # (Cyl. 188*- 341*) g: 12302792 5480448 4.2BSD 2048 16384 89 # (Cyl. 341*- 1106*) Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Oct 30 9:24:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C51737B401 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail12.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1A743E77 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:24:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 13875 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2002 17:24:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail12.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 30 Oct 2002 17:24:40 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9UHNkn5026142; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:24:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <91521.1035901372@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:23:46 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: RE: -current testers needed (no-destructive test) Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 29-Oct-2002 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > I need as many as possible of the people who run alpha/-current to > run a pair of simple tests. > > You need an up to date -current kernel. > > cd /usr/src/lib/libdisk > > make obj ; make depend ; make tst01 > > for each of your harddisks run: > echo quit | /usr/obj/`pwd`/tst01 $DISK > for instance: > echo quit | /usr/obj/`pwd`/tst01 da0 All three disks on the ds20 here look good to me. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 31 9:46:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023B637B401 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:46:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from qescan2.qgraph.com (QESCAN2.qgraph.com [206.158.124.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CC0243E6E for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:46:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Aaron.Schroeder@qg.com) Received: from 192.168.200.29 by qescan2.qgraph.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:46:00 -0600 Received: by sxsmtp2.qgraph.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:46:00 -0600 Message-ID: <025596A38A894B45AFE62346A6BF47464E30C6@waexch1.qgraph.com> From: "Schroeder, Aaron" To: "'freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org'" Subject: qt3.0.5 build error on 4.7-STABLE Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:45:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, I googled for a problem I was having with KDE saying that it cannot contact kdeinit. After searching, the answers pointed to rebuilding kdelibs or qt. I tried kdelibs first, and that failed in the configure stage complaining that it couldn't find qt libs. Obviously, I tried to compile the new version of qt from ports and I get this error: c++ -fno-exceptions -pthread -o ../../../bin/uic .obj/release-shared-mt/main.o .obj/release-shared-mt/uic.o .obj/release-shared-mt/form.o .obj/release-shared-mt/object.o .obj/release-shared-mt/subclassing.o .obj/release-shared-mt/embed.o .obj/release-shared-mt/widgetdatabase.o .obj/release-shared-mt/domtool.o .obj/release-shared-mt/parser.o -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/local/lib -Wl,-rpath,/usr/ports/x11-toolkits/qt30/work/qt-x11-free-3.0.5/lib -L/usr/ports/x11-toolkits/qt30/work/qt-x11-free-3.0.5/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lz -lqt-mt -lGLU -lGL -lXmu -lICE -lSM -lXext -lX11 -lm -lXinerama -lXrender -lXft -lfreetype /usr/lib/libc_r.so: undefined reference to `__sys_sigaltstack' gmake[3]: *** [../../../bin/uic] Error 1 gmake[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/x11-toolkits/qt30/work/qt-x11-free-3.0.5/tools/designer/uic' gmake[2]: *** [sub-uic] Error 2 gmake[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/x11-toolkits/qt30/work/qt-x11-free-3.0.5/tools/designer' gmake[1]: *** [sub-designer] Error 2 gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/x11-toolkits/qt30/work/qt-x11-free-3.0.5/tools' gmake: *** [sub-tools] Error 2 *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/ports/x11-toolkits/qt30 Would anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this or fix KDE? Somehow my qt libs are broken it seems. TIA, AJ Schroeder To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 31 14: 3:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497D737B401 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail14.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7BBA43E6E for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:03:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 6116 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2002 22:03:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail14.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 31 Oct 2002 22:03:56 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9VM3kn5030444; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:03:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:03:45 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: alpha@FreeBSD.org Subject: Alpha 4.7 ISO's (real ones) available Cc: re-alpha@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm happy to announce that disc2 and disc2 ISO images for 4.7 are now on ftp-master and should be hitting the mirrors before too long. The disc1 image includes all of the essential packages needed for disc 1. This means that all of KDE is on there, etc. It is not a full package split however. The disc2 image is just a live filesystem image suitable for use as a fixit CD and does not have any packages on it. Enjoy. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Thu Oct 31 19:18:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC5BE37B401 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:18:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from gooey.bunnynet.org (gooey.bunnynet.org [66.93.21.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A88A43E7B for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:18:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwhite@bunnynet.org) Received: from bunnynet.org (moof.bunnynet.org [66.93.21.43]) by gooey.bunnynet.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA13IVLp008870 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:18:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwhite@bunnynet.org) Message-ID: <3DC1F2CD.1080306@bunnynet.org> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:19:41 -0500 From: Matt White Organization: Furry Rodent Software User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: gdb problems on 4.7? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello - I'm trying to do some debugging with PHP 4.3.0-pre2, but I keep running into problems with gdb crashing. I've found a way to duplicate it, and I'm wondering if someone else can try it to see if my copy of gdb is messed up, or if it's a real problem... (gdb) set follow-fork-mode Segmentation fault (core dumped) My Alpha is an old AlphaStation 4/200, with 128MB RAM running FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE-p1. - Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 13: 9:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE45237B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B32E43E3B for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:09:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.12.3/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA1L9igQ078243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:09:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.12.3/8.12.5/Submit) id gA1L9i3a078240; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:09:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:09:44 -0500 (EST) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <200211012109.gA1L9i3a078240@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: alpha@FreeBSD.org Subject: AS4100 -- worth the effort? Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I may have a free quad-processor AS4100 (with an unknown amount of memory) land in my office soon. How much effort is it going to be worth putting in to get this machine running FreeBSD? There are actually eight such machines in the former cluster, at least one of which was non-functional. If you think you might want one and can arrange to have it picked up in Cambridge, Mass., it may be possible for you to get one or two. Please send me private mail if you are interested and I'll talk with the people who are currently involved in decommissioning the cluster. -GAWollman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 13:18:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF7737B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32C4B43E77 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.6/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gA1LI4CE011090 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:18:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA1LGnpi011061 for alpha@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:16:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:16:47 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 Message-ID: <20021101211647.GA11031@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: alpha@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , alpha@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [From address modified because I don't want every message in this thread to end up in my personal mailbox. I'll read them in the list, thank you very much.] It has become very hard to produce boot floppies for 5.0 on the Alpha platform. The kernel has just grown too large. The amount of effort required to get 'make release' to properly build the floppy images just requires too much effort. This email is just to inform the Alpha community of this situation. We do desire to offer a small boot image (say 8 MB) that one can 'dd' onto the beginning of a hard disk and boot from that to do an install. This should serve the same need that the existing boot floppies do in FreeBSD 4.x. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 14:11:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC67A37B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:11:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net (gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net [198.65.168.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C0B43E97 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:11:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fclift@verio.net) Received: from mx.dmz.orem.verio.net (mx.dmz.orem.verio.net [10.1.1.10]) by gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59AB3BF2F9 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:11:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net (vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net [10.1.1.59]) by mx.dmz.orem.verio.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA1MBB351162 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:11:11 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:11:32 -0700 (MST) From: Fred Clift X-X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 In-Reply-To: <20021101211647.GA11031@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: <20021101150820.X7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, David O'Brien wrote: > > > It has become very hard to produce boot floppies for 5.0 on the Alpha > platform. The kernel has just grown too large. The amount of effort > required to get 'make release' to properly build the floppy images just > requires too much effort. Anyone care to provide more information on what exactly is required on the floppy that makes it so big? is it the _very_ wide range of hardware/drivers needed to fit a good cross-section of the target machines? I'm just curious. > We do desire to offer a small boot image (say 8 MB) that one can 'dd' > onto the beginning of a hard disk and boot from that to do an install. So the two options off hand will be boot from CD or boot from temp hard disk? Are there other, (though perhaps painful) options? I'm somewhat concerned that I'm going to have to open up my box and put a hard disk in it just to do an install... Fred -- Fred Clift - fclift@verio.net -- Remember: If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 14:15:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B46EE37B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F30843E4A for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:15:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01041; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:15:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id gA1MF5S27297; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:15:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15810.64745.425793.33748@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:15:05 -0500 (EST) To: Fred Clift Cc: Subject: Re: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 In-Reply-To: <20021101150820.X7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> References: <20021101211647.GA11031@dragon.nuxi.com> <20021101150820.X7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Fred Clift writes: > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, David O'Brien wrote: > > > > > > It has become very hard to produce boot floppies for 5.0 on the Alpha > > platform. The kernel has just grown too large. The amount of effort > > required to get 'make release' to properly build the floppy images just > > requires too much effort. > > Anyone care to provide more information on what exactly is required on the > floppy that makes it so big? is it the _very_ wide range of > hardware/drivers needed to fit a good cross-section of the target > machines? I'm just curious. One cannot make an alpha kernel fit on a floppy alongside the loader unless one removes nearly all drivers (including disk drivers), NFS, IPV6, etc,etc. > > > We do desire to offer a small boot image (say 8 MB) that one can 'dd' > > onto the beginning of a hard disk and boot from that to do an install. > > So the two options off hand will be boot from CD or boot from temp hard > disk? > > Are there other, (though perhaps painful) options? I'm somewhat concerned > that I'm going to have to open up my box and put a hard disk in it just to > do an install... Netbooting. Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 14:25:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC33D37B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3F043E4A for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:25:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.6/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gA1MPQCE011869; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:25:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA1MOBWM011844; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:24:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:24:11 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Fred Clift Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 Message-ID: <20021101222411.GA11787@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: alpha@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Fred Clift , alpha@freebsd.org References: <20021101211647.GA11031@dragon.nuxi.com> <20021101150820.X7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021101150820.X7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 03:11:32PM -0700, Fred Clift wrote: > So the two options off hand will be boot from CD or boot from temp hard > disk? One shouldn't have to use a temp hard drive. You should be able to 'dd' the install image onto your destination hard drive and then once the installation is started, install for real on that same hard drive. > Are there other, (though perhaps painful) options? I'm somewhat concerned > that I'm going to have to open up my box and put a hard disk in it just to > do an install... That is the live of commercial Unix installs for quite some time. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 14:34:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF3037B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net (gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net [198.65.168.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5085843E4A for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:34:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fclift@verio.net) Received: from mx.dmz.orem.verio.net (mx.dmz.orem.verio.net [10.1.1.10]) by gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27E73BF172 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net (vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net [10.1.1.59]) by mx.dmz.orem.verio.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA1MYh355391; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:34:43 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:35:04 -0700 (MST) From: Fred Clift X-X-Sender: To: Cc: Fred Clift Subject: Re: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 In-Reply-To: <20021101222411.GA11787@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: <20021101152711.V7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, David O'Brien wrote: > > One shouldn't have to use a temp hard drive. You should be able to 'dd' > the install image onto your destination hard drive and then once the > installation is started, install for real on that same hard drive. for a new install, I guess this would be ok... where would you be storing this though? I mean, to dd it there, I have to have 'if=/foo/bar/blah'. You would still either 1) have to have a second disk to hold it, or have a special boot-strap kernel that has no network/whatever-else options, has only disk and cd drivers to get it off of cd, or perhaps if you're creative you oculd read in via the serial port from another computer. If I already had an os there, I could just boot that and dd to the raw device, and then reboot, but how about empty disks? > > Are there other, (though perhaps painful) options? I'm somewhat concerned > > that I'm going to have to open up my box and put a hard disk in it just to > > do an install... > > That is the live of commercial Unix installs for quite some time. Most of the 'commercial unix' I install (generally i386/FreeBSD) are all done via netboot -- and I guess this will work for alpha too. Come to think of it, when I had to touch HP-UX, cd boots and network installs were all I ever did - ditto for solaris/i386. Well, shrug -- seems a shame :). Fred -- Fred Clift - fclift@verio.net -- Remember: If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 14:37:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA6037B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net (gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net [198.65.168.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938F143E6E for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fclift@verio.net) Received: from mx.dmz.orem.verio.net (mx.dmz.orem.verio.net [10.1.1.10]) by gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B0A3BF3A4 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net (vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net [10.1.1.59]) by mx.dmz.orem.verio.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA1Mb8355793; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:37:08 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:37:29 -0700 (MST) From: Fred Clift X-X-Sender: To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: Fred Clift , Subject: Re: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 In-Reply-To: <15810.64745.425793.33748@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-ID: <20021101151718.U7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > One cannot make an alpha kernel fit on a floppy alongside the loader > unless one removes nearly all drivers (including disk drivers), NFS, > IPV6, etc,etc. I'm probably mistaken, but dont most people not use IPV6 or NFS for booting? I can see how the disk drivers would be necessary :). I'm doing my own empirical tests with a somewhat purged GENERIC kernel right now - dont get me wrong -- I believe that it's hard, but well, shrug. So are there other options for building the floppy? like I see all the 'platform' options e.g. options DEC_ST550 # Personal Workstation 433, 500, 600 Does this platform code take up a lot of space? 10 or 12 different floppy images could be made, each with support for only one platform for intace... I'm not totally familiar with the boot-system and how install floppies are put together, but could many of the drivers be loaded as modules from another floppy? On the other hand, I'm not _that_ attached to floppy boots -- I can live without them, but it will be a hassle for me upon next install -- I have neither floppy nor CD rom right now... > > > > Are there other options? > Netbooting. So how does netbooting work on alphas? Is there somewhere I can go read about it? Fred -- Fred Clift - fclift@verio.net -- Remember: If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 14:53:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B850C37B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:53:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E6D43E42 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.6/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gA1MrcCE012147; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:53:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA1MqMcu012122; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:52:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:52:22 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Fred Clift Cc: alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 Message-ID: <20021101225222.GA12071@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: alpha@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: David O'Brien , Fred Clift , alpha@freebsd.org References: <15810.64745.425793.33748@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <20021101151718.U7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021101151718.U7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 03:37:29PM -0700, Fred Clift wrote: > I'm not totally familiar with the boot-system and how install floppies are > put together, but could many of the drivers be loaded as modules from > another floppy? They already are. Seriously, unless you are prepared to do a 'cd /usr/src/release ; make release', and hack on this; you shouldn't be speaking up. > > > Are there other options? > > Netbooting. > > So how does netbooting work on alphas? Is there somewhere I can go read > about it? boot boot ewa0 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 15: 1:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27EA637B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:01:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net (gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net [198.65.168.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0DB43E75 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:01:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fclift@verio.net) Received: from mx.dmz.orem.verio.net (mx.dmz.orem.verio.net [10.1.1.10]) by gatekeeper.oremut01.us.wh.verio.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381FB3BF172 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:01:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net (vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net [10.1.1.59]) by mx.dmz.orem.verio.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA1N1W360195; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:01:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:01:54 -0700 (MST) From: Fred Clift X-X-Sender: To: Cc: Fred Clift Subject: Re: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 In-Reply-To: <20021101225222.GA12071@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: <20021101155442.K7849-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, David O'Brien wrote: > On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 03:37:29PM -0700, Fred Clift wrote: > > I'm not totally familiar with the boot-system and how install floppies are > > put together, but could many of the drivers be loaded as modules from > > another floppy? > > They already are. Seriously, unless you are prepared to do a > 'cd /usr/src/release ; make release', and hack on this; you shouldn't be > speaking up. I'm not unwilling -- just unfamiliar - if there is work I can do I'll seriously consider it. I'm really just trying to get yall to give me enough information so that I know wether or not I'm willing to do just that :) - I presume all of the easy stuff has been done already, and probably all the not-very-easy stuff. I'm just trying to get an idea of what is left, and how much time I'd be wasting^H^H^H^H^H^H commiting if I decided to work on this :). Since it appears that all the logical easy things have been done, I'll probably just agree with you and say "not worth the effort" - but I dont know if I have enough info to decide that yet.... I"m sorry if I've come across as confrontational - I am really just trying to find out more details. My 'contstructive' criticism of the color of the bikeshed should be ignored :). > > > > > > Are there other options? > > > Netbooting. > > > > So how does netbooting work on alphas? Is there somewhere I can go read > > about it? > > boot > boot ewa0 While I can watch what happens via tcpdump and reverse engineer this, can you direct me to anywhere where I might find out the mechanics? (I've done similar things in the past to get freebsd boxes to work as pseudo-jumpstart servers for solaris boxes - not actually jumpstart, but our own custom install script) dhcp? rarp? bootp? tftp? nfs? Fred -- Fred Clift - fclift@verio.net -- Remember: If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 15:18:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283CB37B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:18:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77C343E77 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:18:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [IPv6:3ffe:400:8d0:301:200:92ff:fe9b:20e7]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA1NIFWQ046783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:18:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (cicely8.cicely.de [10.1.1.10]) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1NIDCu080958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:18:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: from cicely8.cicely.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gA1NICl8028768; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:18:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ticso@cicely8.cicely.de) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely8.cicely.de (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA1NIBtB028767; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:18:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:18:10 +0100 From: Bernd Walter To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Fred Clift Subject: Re: HEADS UP, floppy installs desupported for 5.0 Message-ID: <20021101231809.GU20256@cicely8.cicely.de> Reply-To: ticso@cicely.de References: <20021101211647.GA11031@dragon.nuxi.com> <20021101150820.X7968-100000@vespa.dmz.orem.verio.net> <20021101222411.GA11787@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021101222411.GA11787@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cicely8.cicely.de 5.0-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 02:24:11PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: > On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 03:11:32PM -0700, Fred Clift wrote: > > So the two options off hand will be boot from CD or boot from temp hard > > disk? > > One shouldn't have to use a temp hard drive. You should be able to 'dd' > the install image onto your destination hard drive and then once the > installation is started, install for real on that same hard drive. My alphas boot raw harddisk images burned to CD. Just the fstab on the CD was wrong ;-). -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Fri Nov 1 19:15:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16AB837B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from wolfman.mcgreal.org (dsl-64-129-43-129.telocity.com [64.129.43.129]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 021B543E77 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:15:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@mcgreal.org) Received: (qmail 23946 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 03:14:44 -0000 Received: from dracula.mcgreal.org (10.0.0.2) by wolfman.mcgreal.org with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 03:14:44 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Martin McGreal Reply-To: martin@mcgreal.org To: Garrett Wollman , alpha@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: AS4100 -- worth the effort? Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:15:13 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 References: <200211012109.gA1L9i3a078240@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <200211012109.gA1L9i3a078240@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200211012115.13390.freebsd@mcgreal.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The stable FreeBSD distribution does not yet utilize more than one proces= sor=20 on SMP alpha systems. However, I've been told you may install the 5.0=20 developer preview release, which has SMP support, but may be unreliable. On Friday 01 November 2002 03:09 pm, Garrett Wollman wrote: > I may have a free quad-processor AS4100 (with an unknown amount of > memory) land in my office soon. How much effort is it going to be > worth putting in to get this machine running FreeBSD? > > There are actually eight such machines in the former cluster, at least > one of which was non-functional. If you think you might want one and > can arrange to have it picked up in Cambridge, Mass., it may be > possible for you to get one or two. Please send me private mail if > you are interested and I'll talk with the people who are currently > involved in decommissioning the cluster. > > -GAWollman > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sat Nov 2 0:22:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE26237B401 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:22:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta03.mail.mel.aone.net.au (mta03.mail.au.uu.net [203.2.192.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A07E143E3B for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:22:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbyrnes@ozemail.com.au) Received: from pootah ([63.34.197.19]) by mta03.mail.mel.aone.net.au with SMTP id <20021102082223.EJND22360.mta03.mail.mel.aone.net.au@pootah> for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:22:23 +1100 Message-ID: <004f01c28248$f1e57c40$3164a8c0@pootah> From: "Rob B" To: Subject: -CURRENT boot floppy drivers Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:22:11 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there a way to find what drivers are supplied by the boot-floppies? I am trying to install 5.0DP1 on a Cabriolet that b0rked halfway through a binary upgrade from 4.7-STABLE to -CURRENT. The cd-rom isn't seen by the 5.0DP1 floppies, and neither is the Tulip card (dc(4) driver), however both work fine when I boot into -STABLE. The issue with the -STABLE kernel, by the way, is that it boots fine, but dies at "Routing daemons:" - I thnk world and kernel got out of sync during the failed upgrade cheers, Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sat Nov 2 10:11:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F18A37B404; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 10:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mxzilla4.xs4all.nl (mxzilla4.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C5043E75; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 10:11:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wkb@xs4all.nl) Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.3.11]) by mxzilla4.xs4all.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gA2IB7QJ079996; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:11:07 +0100 (CET) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by xs1.xs4all.nl (8.11.6/8.11.6) id gA2IB7680820; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:11:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:11:06 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte To: Garrett Wollman , donations@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AS4100 -- worth the effort? Message-ID: <20021102181106.GA80680@xs4all.nl> References: <200211012109.gA1L9i3a078240@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200211012109.gA1L9i3a078240@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE-p19 X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 04:09:44PM -0500, Garrett Wollman wrote: Hi Garrett, It might be good to make donation@freebsd.org aware of this offer (well, potential offer) Wilko > I may have a free quad-processor AS4100 (with an unknown amount of > memory) land in my office soon. How much effort is it going to be > worth putting in to get this machine running FreeBSD? > > There are actually eight such machines in the former cluster, at least > one of which was non-functional. If you think you might want one and > can arrange to have it picked up in Cambridge, Mass., it may be > possible for you to get one or two. Please send me private mail if > you are interested and I'll talk with the people who are currently > involved in decommissioning the cluster. > > -GAWollman > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message ---end of quoted text--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message