From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Jun 9 0:27:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from kayak.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C11A37B400; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by kayak.xcllnt.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g597RNJ03359; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:27:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@kayak.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g597RQAi048008; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g597RQxS048007; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:27:25 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Terry Lambert Cc: Doug Barton , Mike Barcroft , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020609072725.GA47864@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <20020608210159.B87326@espresso.q9media.com> <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <3D02ACE0.9DAB0822@mindspring.com> <3D02B069.5863B2B9@FreeBSD.org> <3D02E881.2F3F57CB@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D02E881.2F3F57CB@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 10:32:49PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Hysterical raisins. BLAH=anythingatall has always meant, "BLAH is true," > > (or more properly, BLAH is defined) regardless of the value. Your way > > would make more sense, but that's a battle I'm not willing to fight. > > Since everyone appears to be in the mood to hack "Make" these days, it > might be worthwhile to add a "-U" option, jut like "cc" has? I interpreted -U as meaning the interface as preferred by user "name", before I reached "ju(s)t like "cc" has". Since the latter is only a comma away from the former, I think it's save to say that it's a genuine signal. I've yet to decode the signal, though :-) AFAICT, NOFOO has been the convention and it got polluted with NO_BAR. I'm of the impression that it came from the ports collection, was this the case? Also, I believe in earlier discussions NO_BLA was in favor by most of the people involved, but I can be wrong here (too). I can't even remember if I was part of that discussion and what my opinion was at that time, but this time it's that I prefer NOFOO. Maybe because I had to type NO_WERROR so often, but more likely because NOFOO fits the BSD paradigm so much better. In any way: the inconsistency is worse than either naming scheme. So I will see it as an improvement even if it's not my preferred naming... -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Jun 9 0:51:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za (zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076D337B400; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g597pWA90153; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:51:32 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from jhay) From: John Hay Message-Id: <200206090751.g597pWA90153@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) In-Reply-To: <20020608210159.B87326@espresso.q9media.com> from Mike Barcroft at "Jun 8, 2002 09:01:59 pm" To: mike@FreeBSD.ORG (Mike Barcroft) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:51:32 +0200 (SAT) Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Is anyone planning to do something about the hugely confusing state of > NO/NO_ options? I can never remember which options have an underscore > after the NO, so I end up writing commands like > `make kernel ... NO_KERNELCLEAN=true NOKERNELCLEAN=true'. It would > very nice if we could standardize this and add some compatibility > shims for historical spellings. There were standards a long time ago, but just like some people like to ignore style(9), this was also ignored and we end up confused. :-( My vote would be for NOFOO (because that was the standard), but that is just my vote. And yes I think it is a good idea that we should have it standarized, but then I also think our code should conform to style(9). :-) John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@icomtek.csir.co.za / jhay@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sun Jun 9 10:13:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.92.13.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03BFB37B404 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 10:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g59HDYJn071086; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 10:13:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g59HDXvd071085; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 10:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 10:13:33 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Marcel Moolenaar Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) Message-ID: <20020609101333.A26546@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mail-Followup-To: arch@freebsd.org References: <20020608210159.B87326@espresso.q9media.com> <3D02AB11.F373AB4@FreeBSD.org> <3D02ACE0.9DAB0822@mindspring.com> <3D02B069.5863B2B9@FreeBSD.org> <3D02E881.2F3F57CB@mindspring.com> <20020609072725.GA47864@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020609072725.GA47864@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net>; from marcel@xcllnt.net on Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 12:27:25AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [please take care to NOT CC me, I do read arch@] On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 12:27:25AM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > Also, I believe in earlier discussions NO_BLA was in favor by most of > the people involved, but I can be wrong here (too). You are correct. I estimate this discussion was 2 years ago now. Everyone except BDE (and maybe a few others) wanted NOFOO, all the rest wanted NO_FOO. In June 2000, Kris Kennaway made a set of patches to change most everything to NO_. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jun 10 4:57:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from scan.ji-net.com (scan.ji-net.com [203.130.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6AA37B423 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 04:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net1.ji-net.com ([203.156.15.52]) by scan.ji-net.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g5ABuhL28938 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:56:45 +0700 Message-Id: <200206101156.g5ABuhL28938@scan.ji-net.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:58:56 To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org From: goodhealthgoodjob@yahoo.com (foodforhealth) Subject: Çѹ¹Õé¤Ø³´ÙáÅÊØ¢ÀÒ¾áÅéÇËÃ×ÍÂѧ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG á¹Ð¹Óâ»Ãá¡ÃÁ¤Çº¤ØÁ¹éÓ˹ѡ à¾ÔèÁ¹éÓ˹ѡ ÃÑ¡ÉÒÊØ¢ÀÒ¾ ¤Ø³ËÃ×ͤ¹·Õè¤Ø³ÃÑ¡¡ÓÅѧÁͧËÒÇÔ¸Õ´ÙáÅÊØ¢ÀÒ¾·Õèà»ç¹¸ÃÃÁªÒµÔÍÂÙèãªèäËÁ? ËÒ¡¤Ø³àº×èÍ˹èÒ¡Ѻ¤ÇÒÁ¾ÂÒÂÒÁ·ÕèäÁè»ÃÐʺ¤ÇÒÁÊÓàÃ稤ÃÑé§áÅéǤÃÑé§àÅèÒ ã¹¡ÒôÙáÅÊØ¢ÀÒ¾à¾×èÍÃÙ»ÃèÒ§·Õè´Õ àÃÒÁÕâ»Ãá¡ÃÁâÀª¹Ò¡ÒÃà¾×èÍÊØ¢ÀÒ¾ ·ÕèªèǤسä´é ÊÓËÃѺ¼Ùé·ÕèÁջѭËÒ ¹éÓ˹ѡà¡Ô¹ËÃ×ÍÍéǹ, ¼ÍÁà¡Ô¹ä», ÁջѭËÒÊØ¢ÀÒ¾ (¼ÍÁáËé§áç¹éÍÂ, ¾Ø§ËéÍÂÍ×´ÍÒ´, ¢Ò´¤ÇÒÁÁÑè¹ã¨, âäÀѶÒÁËÒ,ãºË¹éÒà»ç¹ÊÔÇ, ¼ÔǾÃóàËÕèÂÇÂè¹, ¤¹àÅ蹡ÕÌÒ, ¤Ø³»éÒÇÑ·ͧ, ¤Ø³¹éÍ§æ ·ÕèÍÂÒ¡ÊÇÂ)à»ç¹¼ÅÔµÀѳ±ì¨Ò¡¸ÃÃÁªÒµÔ 100 % äÁèãªèÂÒ äÁèµéͧʹÍÒËÒà äÁèÁռŢéÒ§à¤Õ§ äÁèµéͧÍÍ¡¡ÓÅѧ¡Ò ¿Ñ§´ÙäÁè¹èÒàª×èÍáµè¡çµéͧàª×èÍà¾ÃÒмèÒ¹ ÍÂ.·Ø¡»ÃÐà·È·Õèà¢éÒ仢ÒÂâ´Â੾ÒлÃÐà·Èä·ÂáÅÐÍàÁÃÔ¡Ò ãËéÊÒÃÍÒËÒäú¶éǹ »ÃѺÊÁ´ØŢͧÃèÒ§¡ÒÂÅ´ä¢ÁѹÊèǹà¡Ô¹ ÃѺÃͧ¼ÅÀÒÂã¹30Çѹ´éÇÂÃкº¤×¹à§Ô¹100%(á¾·Âì¼Ùé¤Ô´¤é¹ÍÒËÒÃÊٵùÕé¤×ͤ¹·Õè¤Ô´¤é¹ÍÒËÒÃãËé¹Ñ¡ºÔ¹ÍÇ¡ÒÈͧ¤ì¡ÒùҫèÒ) ʹ㨠¢Í¤Óá¹Ð¹Óà¾ÔèÁàµÔÁä´é·Õè ¤Ø³ÊÔÃÔ 01-8901701¾º¤ÓµÍºÊØ´·éÒ¢ͧ¤Ø³ä´é·Õè¹Õè http://www.smartslender.com/foodforhealth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jun 10 11:29:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4555337B401 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5AISAV7098153 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 20:28:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 20:28:10 +0200 Message-ID: <98152.1023733690@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The issue of 32->64 bit migration of struct disklabel has come up now that daddr_t is 64 bit wide. I have pondered the issue and researched what material I could find and come to the conclusion that we should not make a 64bit version of struct disklabel, but instead use the industry standard GPT format. A 64bit BSD style disklabel would in best case be a {Free,Net,Open}BSD thing, worst case just a FreeBSD thing. Either way I will argue that it would be a private format. Unless it can provide functionality otherwise not possible there is no point in adding a new private format. The GPT handles 16k partitions, 64 bit addressing, has decently checksummed and redundant meta-data and space for per partition meta-data. I can't think of anything else we might need, so I have decided not to make a 64bit disklabel format and instead use the GPT format. This may result in us using the GPT format in ways not anticipated by the standard (ie: embedded in a native partition on some odd-ball platform) but that should not give any more or less trouble than embedding a disklabel64 there. We will need to support GPT for at least ia64 anyway, and I predict that it will sneak into ia32 RSN as well, so this is actually less work for us than doing a disklabel64. Any objections ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jun 10 12:11:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from root.com (unknown [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9BA037B405; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dg@localhost) by root.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g5AJ9uZ41521; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:09:56 -0700 From: David Greenman-Lawrence To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. Message-ID: <20020610120956.L53004@nexus.root.com> References: <98152.1023733690@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <98152.1023733690@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@freebsd.org on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 08:28:10PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >We will need to support GPT for at least ia64 anyway, and I predict >that it will sneak into ia32 RSN as well, so this is actually less >work for us than doing a disklabel64. > >Any objections ? No objections from me, but what does "GPT" stand for? -DG D.G.Lawrence Download Technologies, Inc. - http://www.downloadtech.com - (866) 399 8500 TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com - (503) 288 9544 The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jun 10 12:36:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A954337B403 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5AJYgV7010597; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:34:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: David Greenman-Lawrence Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:09:56 PDT." <20020610120956.L53004@nexus.root.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:34:42 +0200 Message-ID: <10596.1023737682@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020610120956.L53004@nexus.root.com>, David Greenman-Lawrence writ es: >>We will need to support GPT for at least ia64 anyway, and I predict >>that it will sneak into ia32 RSN as well, so this is actually less >>work for us than doing a disklabel64. >> >>Any objections ? > > No objections from me, but what does "GPT" stand for? GUID Partition Table. See around section 16.2 here: http://developer.intel.com/technology/efi/EFISpec_v102.pdf -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jun 10 16:36:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.gnf.org (ns1.gnf.org [63.196.132.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C9437B403; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gnf.org (smtp.gnf.org [172.25.11.11]) by ns1.gnf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5ANaBX52249; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordon@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mail.gnf.org (Postfix, from userid 888) id 2439411E516; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gnf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2318911A572; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:36:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow X-X-Sender: gordont@smtp.gnf.org To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. In-Reply-To: <98152.1023733690@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > The GPT handles 16k partitions, 64 bit addressing, has decently > checksummed and redundant meta-data and space for per partition > meta-data. So it has a place to stash data suitable for GEOM mirror partitions and other "special" things that need to keep some meta-data about their operations? -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jun 10 21:43:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from kayak.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D194637B40B for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by kayak.xcllnt.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g5B4hVJ09356 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@kayak.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5B4he13012019 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:43:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5B4hdQX012018 for arch@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:43:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:43:39 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. Message-ID: <20020611044339.GA11905@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <98152.1023733690@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <98152.1023733690@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 08:28:10PM +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: [snip] > I have pondered the issue and researched what material I could find > and come to the conclusion that we should not make a 64bit version > of struct disklabel, but instead use the industry standard GPT format. [snip] > Any objections ? None here. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jun 10 21:47:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from kayak.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9F437B406; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by kayak.xcllnt.net (8.11.6/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g5B4lVJ09367; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:47:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@kayak.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5B4le13012042; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:47:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5B4lelD012041; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:47:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:47:40 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. Message-ID: <20020611044740.GB11905@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <98152.1023733690@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 04:36:15PM -0700, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > The GPT handles 16k partitions, 64 bit addressing, has decently > > checksummed and redundant meta-data and space for per partition > > meta-data. > > So it has a place to stash data suitable for GEOM mirror partitions and > other "special" things that need to keep some meta-data about their > operations? You have a virtually unlimited supply of partition types. If there's a lot of meta-data to store, you can define a partition type and create a partition for it. The minimum partition size is a sector. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Mon Jun 10 22: 2:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C69537B400; Mon, 10 Jun 2002 22:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5B50eV7015244; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:00:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:36:15 PDT." Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:00:40 +0200 Message-ID: <15243.1023771640@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Gordon Tetl ow writes: >On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> The GPT handles 16k partitions, 64 bit addressing, has decently >> checksummed and redundant meta-data and space for per partition >> meta-data. > >So it has a place to stash data suitable for GEOM mirror partitions and >other "special" things that need to keep some meta-data about their >operations? I generally belive that such meta-data should be in the partition so people don't get surprised that dd if=/dev/da0p1 of=/dev/da1p7 bs=1m doesn't do what they want. So while the answer to your question technically is "yes", I belive we shouldn't use that space unless we have a very good reason. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jun 11 1:38:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail14.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA6937B411 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 01:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25711 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2002 08:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) by mail14.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 11 Jun 2002 08:37:16 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx ([206.187.69.211]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5B8bEQ81418; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 04:37:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.2 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20020610120956.L53004@nexus.root.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 04:37:08 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: David Greenman-Lawrence Subject: Re: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. Cc: arch@freebsd.org, Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-Jun-2002 David Greenman-Lawrence wrote: >>We will need to support GPT for at least ia64 anyway, and I predict >>that it will sneak into ia32 RSN as well, so this is actually less >>work for us than doing a disklabel64. >> >>Any objections ? > > No objections from me, but what does "GPT" stand for? It's a 3-bit error away from Global Positioning System. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jun 11 13:50:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from scan.ji-net.com (scan.ji-net.com [203.130.156.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 261E837B414 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:49:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net1.ji-net.com ([203.156.15.120]) by scan.ji-net.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g5BKnfQ26038 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 03:49:42 +0700 Message-Id: <200206112049.g5BKnfQ26038@scan.ji-net.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 03:51:46 To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org From: goodhealthgoodjob@yahoo.com (foodforhealth) Subject: Çѹ¹Õé¤Ø³´ÙáÅÊØ¢ÀÒ¾áÅéÇËÃ×ÍÂѧ X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG á¹Ð¹Óâ»Ãá¡ÃÁ¤Çº¤ØÁ¹éÓ˹ѡ à¾ÔèÁ¹éÓ˹ѡ ÃÑ¡ÉÒÊØ¢ÀÒ¾ ¤Ø³ËÃ×ͤ¹·Õè¤Ø³ÃÑ¡¡ÓÅѧÁͧËÒÇÔ¸Õ´ÙáÅÊØ¢ÀÒ¾·Õèà»ç¹¸ÃÃÁªÒµÔÍÂÙèãªèäËÁ? ËÒ¡¤Ø³àº×èÍ˹èÒ¡Ѻ¤ÇÒÁ¾ÂÒÂÒÁ·ÕèäÁè»ÃÐʺ¤ÇÒÁÊÓàÃ稤ÃÑé§áÅéǤÃÑé§àÅèÒ ã¹¡ÒôÙáÅÊØ¢ÀÒ¾à¾×èÍÃÙ»ÃèÒ§·Õè´Õ àÃÒÁÕâ»Ãá¡ÃÁâÀª¹Ò¡ÒÃà¾×èÍÊØ¢ÀÒ¾ ·ÕèªèǤسä´é ÊÓËÃѺ¼Ùé·ÕèÁջѭËÒ ¹éÓ˹ѡà¡Ô¹ËÃ×ÍÍéǹ, ¼ÍÁà¡Ô¹ä», ÁջѭËÒÊØ¢ÀÒ¾ (¼ÍÁáËé§áç¹éÍÂ, ¾Ø§ËéÍÂÍ×´ÍÒ´, ¢Ò´¤ÇÒÁÁÑè¹ã¨, âäÀѶÒÁËÒ,ãºË¹éÒà»ç¹ÊÔÇ, ¼ÔǾÃóàËÕèÂÇÂè¹, ¤¹àÅ蹡ÕÌÒ, ¤Ø³»éÒÇÑ·ͧ, ¤Ø³¹éÍ§æ ·ÕèÍÂÒ¡ÊÇÂ)à»ç¹¼ÅÔµÀѳ±ì¨Ò¡¸ÃÃÁªÒµÔ 100 % äÁèãªèÂÒ äÁèµéͧʹÍÒËÒà äÁèÁռŢéÒ§à¤Õ§ äÁèµéͧÍÍ¡¡ÓÅѧ¡Ò ¿Ñ§´ÙäÁè¹èÒàª×èÍáµè¡çµéͧàª×èÍà¾ÃÒмèÒ¹ ÍÂ.·Ø¡»ÃÐà·È·Õèà¢éÒ仢ÒÂâ´Â੾ÒлÃÐà·Èä·ÂáÅÐÍàÁÃÔ¡Ò ãËéÊÒÃÍÒËÒäú¶éǹ »ÃѺÊÁ´ØŢͧÃèÒ§¡ÒÂÅ´ä¢ÁѹÊèǹà¡Ô¹ ÃѺÃͧ¼ÅÀÒÂã¹30Çѹ´éÇÂÃкº¤×¹à§Ô¹100%(á¾·Âì¼Ùé¤Ô´¤é¹ÍÒËÒÃÊٵùÕé¤×ͤ¹·Õè¤Ô´¤é¹ÍÒËÒÃãËé¹Ñ¡ºÔ¹ÍÇ¡ÒÈͧ¤ì¡ÒùҫèÒ) ʹ㨠¢Í¤Óá¹Ð¹Óà¾ÔèÁàµÔÁä´é·Õè ¤Ø³ÊÔÃÔ 01-8901701¾º¤ÓµÍºÊØ´·éÒ¢ͧ¤Ø³ä´é·Õè¹Õè http://www.smartslender.com/foodforhealth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jun 11 15: 8:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FFC37B400; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g5BM88b5016253; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:08:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:08:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Statement of architectural direction: disklabel64 / GPT. In-Reply-To: <98152.1023733690@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sounds like a good idea to me. Imagine, everyone using the same partition scheme -- there must be some snag :-) Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > The issue of 32->64 bit migration of struct disklabel has come up > now that daddr_t is 64 bit wide. > > I have pondered the issue and researched what material I could find > and come to the conclusion that we should not make a 64bit version > of struct disklabel, but instead use the industry standard GPT format. > > A 64bit BSD style disklabel would in best case be a {Free,Net,Open}BSD > thing, worst case just a FreeBSD thing. Either way I will argue > that it would be a private format. > > Unless it can provide functionality otherwise not possible there > is no point in adding a new private format. > > The GPT handles 16k partitions, 64 bit addressing, has decently > checksummed and redundant meta-data and space for per partition > meta-data. > > I can't think of anything else we might need, so I have decided > not to make a 64bit disklabel format and instead use the GPT format. > > This may result in us using the GPT format in ways not anticipated > by the standard (ie: embedded in a native partition on some odd-ball > platform) but that should not give any more or less trouble than > embedding a disklabel64 there. > > We will need to support GPT for at least ia64 anyway, and I predict > that it will sneak into ia32 RSN as well, so this is actually less > work for us than doing a disklabel64. > > Any objections ? > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jun 11 23:36:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mta05ps.bigpond.com (mta05ps.bigpond.com [144.135.25.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF2037B407 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org ([144.135.25.78]) by mta05ps.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta05ps Apr 29 2002 13:22:02) with SMTP id GXKYDG00.9DR for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:36:52 +1000 Received: from CPE-144-132-188-183.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([144.132.188.183]) by PSMAM04.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 92/2118870); 12 Jun 2002 16:36:52 Received: (qmail 954 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2002 06:36:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (andrew@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Jun 2002 06:36:53 -0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD daemon configurations redesign From: Andrew Reilly To: Terry Lambert Cc: Daniel Blankensteiner , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3CF7FE67.868D4EF9@mindspring.com> References: <00c601c2082d$bc531ff0$6800a8c0@rafter> <3CF6B300.145E0CD9@mindspring.com> <011201c20832$34404750$6800a8c0@rafter> <3CF6CC39.BFC0A232@mindspring.com> <011001c20885$6dc3db60$6800a8c0@rafter> <3CF7E342.C351A12E@mindspring.com> <01bf01c208ec$b11a7380$6800a8c0@rafter> <3CF7FE67.868D4EF9@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 Date: 12 Jun 2002 16:36:53 +1000 Message-Id: <1023863813.97753.58.camel@gurney.reilly.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 2002-06-01 at 08:51, Terry Lambert wrote: > Most companies that try to base products on Open Source really fail > to learn this lesson: sometimes you have to bend to the software, > rather than attempt to bend the software to your will. It just occurred to me that Apple must be encountering this problem with OS-X. To whatever extent it is possible to configure the daemons that they inherited from BSD with their GUI and NetInfo services, anyway. I don't own a Mac, so I don't know how well they're doing with this. Anyone have more info/experience? How close is NetInfo to LDAP, conceptually, in the sense of distributed database thingies? Is there any released Darwin code that would be useful to consider rolling back into FreeBSD in this regard? -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Tue Jun 11 23:37:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECCC37B406 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0246.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.246] helo=mindspring.com) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17I1kp-0006IM-00 for arch@freebsd.org; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:37:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3D06EBDC.99C72671@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:36:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Where do you see FreeBSD in 10 years? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Progress is the measurement of distance the travelled along the vector between your starting point and your eventual goal. The 4th century B.C. Stoic philosopher Seneca the Elder once wrote "Never substitute activity for action". A lot of people have had to answer, at one time or another, the questions "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" and "Where do you see yourself in 10 years?". I'm sure the majority of the people who subscribe to this list have had to answer it, even if it was in the myopic form of a "Career Goals" section on their resume. I'd like to see these same questions answered for FreeBSD... so I'm going to ask them, 1) Where is your "stake in the ground", your "line in the sand"? What is your goal for the FreeBSD project? 2) Where do you see FreeBSD in 10 years? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 5:35:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.cc (gw.nectar.cc [208.42.49.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC49E37B40F for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 05:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from madman.nectar.cc (madman.nectar.cc [10.0.1.111]) by gw.nectar.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B17C46 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:35:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from madman.nectar.cc (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by madman.nectar.cc (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5CCZIJI034526 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:35:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from nectar@madman.nectar.cc) Received: (from nectar@localhost) by madman.nectar.cc (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5CCZIHJ034525 for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:35:18 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:35:18 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: RFC: remove xten from the base system? Message-ID: <20020612123518.GC34267@madman.nectar.cc> Mail-Followup-To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <20020612041902.9CF1137B408@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020612041902.9CF1137B408@hub.freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i X-Url: http://www.nectar.cc/ Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This commit reminds me ... why are we still carrying the xten stuff around? I thought there might have been a thread on this in the relatively recent past, but a quick search of -arch and -hackers didn't turn anything up. It appears to me that this code hasn't really been maintained since 1997 [1]. Moreoever, it isn't really the kind of software that one expects to be tied into the base system. Comments on its removal? Assuming anyone is actually interested in the code, it can be moved to the Ports Collection. Cheers, -- Jacques A. Vidrine http://www.nectar.cc/ NTT/Verio SME . FreeBSD UNIX . Heimdal Kerberos jvidrine@verio.net . nectar@FreeBSD.org . nectar@kth.se [1] Actually, there seems to have been some fixes to signal handling in the daemon in 2001, `Reviewed by: [...] maintainer's silence'. On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 09:19:02PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > imp 2002/06/11 21:18:35 PDT > > Modified files: > usr.sbin/xten xten.c > Log: > KNF. > Use ANSI functions rather than old K&R style. > > Revision Changes Path > 1.6 +89 -87 src/usr.sbin/xten/xten.c To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 9:56:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F4937B404; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0572.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.200.62] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IBQ4-0000Pj-00; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:56:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3D077D18.B044A1E9@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:55:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? References: <20020612041902.9CF1137B408@hub.freebsd.org> <20020612123518.GC34267@madman.nectar.cc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jacques A. Vidrine" wrote: > This commit reminds me ... why are we still carrying the xten stuff > around? I thought there might have been a thread on this in the > relatively recent past, but a quick search of -arch and -hackers didn't > turn anything up. > > It appears to me that this code hasn't really been maintained since > 1997 [1]. Moreoever, it isn't really the kind of software that one > expects to be tied into the base system. Perhaps it works? > Comments on its removal? Assuming anyone is actually interested in > the code, it can be moved to the Ports Collection. While we are at it, let's move all device drivers to "ports". NOT. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 13: 8:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB5737B400 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 11751437 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2002 20:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.230.194]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 12 Jun 2002 20:08:40 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (i4unu1y1kx1yvjwp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5CK8da6033201; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:08:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5CK8cMp033200; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:08:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:08:38 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? Message-ID: <20020612200838.GC33037@gits.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: Cyrille Lefevre , Terry Lambert , "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <20020612041902.9CF1137B408@hub.freebsd.org> <20020612123518.GC34267@madman.nectar.cc> <3D077D18.B044A1E9@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D077D18.B044A1E9@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 09:55:52AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > "Jacques A. Vidrine" wrote: > > This commit reminds me ... why are we still carrying the xten stuff > > around? I thought there might have been a thread on this in the > > relatively recent past, but a quick search of -arch and -hackers didn't > > turn anything up. > > > > It appears to me that this code hasn't really been maintained since > > 1997 [1]. Moreoever, it isn't really the kind of software that one > > expects to be tied into the base system. > > Perhaps it works? > > > Comments on its removal? Assuming anyone is actually interested in > > the code, it can be moved to the Ports Collection. > > While we are at it, let's move all device drivers to "ports". NOT. making a port which concern only a few files (I count 5). much better is to left them in place if xten is still working since it is far less space bloat than perl :) Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 15:54:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 5E1E237B405; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:54:52 -0700 From: Juli Mallett To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-Alternate-Addresses: , , , X-Affiliated-Projects: FreeBSD, xMach, ircd-hybrid-7 X-Towel: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there, In my work as part of Mike Barcroft's team of people doing standards work such as bringing utilities up to conformance, I decided to do necessary bits to try to get SCCS in a form that could be brought into our source tree. As it is right now, I have a version of CSRG SCCS that mostly works but lacks a few standards-related options, and I have framework to bring a Public Domain C++ SCCS implementation into the build. I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those however, I am writing because a number of people have said they simply do not want any SCCS stuff in the base system. If the majority thinks this way, I will go and remove src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring something into the source tree. Thanks. -- Juli Mallett FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Perception is prejudice / Don't classify me / Accept me as me / Not what you see To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 16:14:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E9837B406; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9A05C816BD; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:44:07 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:44:07 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Juli Mallett Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 12 June 2002 at 15:54:52 -0700, Juli Mallett wrote: > Hi there, > > In my work as part of Mike Barcroft's team of people doing standards work > such as bringing utilities up to conformance, I decided to do necessary > bits to try to get SCCS in a form that could be brought into our source > tree. As it is right now, I have a version of CSRG SCCS that mostly works > but lacks a few standards-related options, and I have framework to bring a > Public Domain C++ SCCS implementation into the build. > > I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those however, I am > writing because a number of people have said they simply do not want any > SCCS stuff in the base system. If the majority thinks this way, I will go > and remove src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring something > into the source tree. My feeling is that SCCS is only of historical interest. It would be nice to be able to access old SCCS files, but I can't imagine that many people would want to use it for new work. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 16:18: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F6437B401; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0536.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.26] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IHNM-0005xM-00; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:18:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3D07D683.E8432EFB@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 16:17:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 12 June 2002 at 15:54:52 -0700, Juli Mallett wrote: > > In my work as part of Mike Barcroft's team of people doing standards work > > such as bringing utilities up to conformance, I decided to do necessary > > bits to try to get SCCS in a form that could be brought into our source > > tree. As it is right now, I have a version of CSRG SCCS that mostly works > > but lacks a few standards-related options, and I have framework to bring a > > Public Domain C++ SCCS implementation into the build. > > My feeling is that SCCS is only of historical interest. It would be > nice to be able to access old SCCS files, but I can't imagine that > many people would want to use it for new work. I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened, rather than just *that* they happened. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 17:45:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF8237B405; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5D0jadk147494; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:45:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:45:35 -0400 To: Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Cc: Terry Lambert Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 3:54 PM -0700 6/12/02, Juli Mallett wrote: >I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those >however, I am writing because a number of people have said >they simply do not want any SCCS stuff in the base system. >If the majority thinks this way, I will go and remove >src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring >something into the source tree. Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't see why it would need to be in the base system. We just tossed perl *out* of the base system, and perl is a lot more useful [in day-to-day work] than sccs would be. In a different message, Terry Lambert wrote: >I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments >in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you >can buy from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular >things happened, rather than just *that* they happened. Perhaps the CD's should include the source for the port... :-) [one that would compile and install on the current FreeBSD's, and not just the source for the original sccs] -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 21:28: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.1.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0832537B421; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [166.84.1.2]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 357938E90; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rsi@localhost) by panix2.panix.com (8.11.3nb1/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id g5D4RxB02065; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: panix2.panix.com: rsi set sender to rsi@panix.com using -f To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3D07D683.E8432EFB@mindspring.com> From: Rajappa Iyer Date: 13 Jun 2002 00:27:59 -0400 Reply-To: rsi@panix.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments > in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy > from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened, > rather than just *that* they happened. Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility. Rajappa -- a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer. They also surf who stand in the waves. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 22:33:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C36237B412; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0150.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.150] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17INEr-0001nm-00; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:33:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3D082E8F.FB380B61@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:33:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Garance A Drosihn wrote: > In a different message, Terry Lambert wrote: > >I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments > >in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you > >can buy from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular > >things happened, rather than just *that* they happened. > > Perhaps the CD's should include the source for the port... :-) > > [one that would compile and install on the current > FreeBSD's, and not just the source for the original sccs] The FreeBSD CD's, or the ones Kirk sells? If the latter, feel free to suggest it to Kirk. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 22:44:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7099737B400; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0150.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.150] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17INPY-0002jB-00; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:44:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3D083120.F2E704C3@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:44:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsi@panix.com Cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3D07D683.E8432EFB@mindspring.com> <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rajappa Iyer wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments > > in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy > > from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened, > > rather than just *that* they happened. > > Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that > the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility. I couldn't tell you. I know that FreeBSD doesn't have it now, and FreeBSD has RCS as part of CVS. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 22:53:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail2.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6364737B413; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alcanet.com.au (8.12.1/8.12.1/Alcanet1.2) with ESMTP id g5D5rB6C002439; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:53:11 +1000 Received: from gsmx07.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.2-32 #37641) with ESMTP id <01KIVYOIYVEO8Y8GWM@cim.alcatel.com.au>; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:52:21 +1000 Received: from gsmx07.alcatel.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gsmx07.alcatel.com.au (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5D5r5Dp025017; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:53:05 +1000 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsmx07.alcatel.com.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5D5r44i025016; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:53:04 +1000 (EST) Content-return: prohibited Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:53:04 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System In-reply-to: <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com>; from rsi@panix.com on Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 12:27:59AM -0400 To: Rajappa Iyer Cc: Terry Lambert , "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mail-Followup-To: Rajappa Iyer , Terry Lambert , Greg 'groggy' Lehey , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <20020613155304.X680@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3D07D683.E8432EFB@mindspring.com> <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2002-Jun-13 00:27:59 -0400, Rajappa Iyer wrote: >Terry Lambert writes: >> I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments >> in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy >> from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened, >> rather than just *that* they happened. > >Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that >the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility. I once had a quick look at it. It works through each SCCS revision using sccs-get to extract the revision and then ci to add it to the RCS repository (with some extra SCCS commands to extract and re-use the log entries). It won't work unless you have working copies of both SCCS and RCS installed. (The other downside is that you appear to lose all the timestamps). Writing a utility that read an SCCS repository and turned it directly into an RCS repository (including all the original timestamps) would be much nicer - and a lot of work. Overall, I think SCCS should be a port. I agree with Terry that it's unlikely to be ever used for anything other than looking through the CSRG repository. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Wed Jun 12 23:45:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from 12-234-22-238.client.attbi.com (12-234-90-219.client.attbi.com [12.234.90.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 930EA37B401; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Master.gorean.org (master.gorean.org [10.0.0.2]) by 12-234-22-238.client.attbi.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5D6jRXN006136; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:45:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by Master.gorean.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g5D6jRJ0003598; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:45:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: Master.gorean.org: doug owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:45:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? In-Reply-To: <20020612123518.GC34267@madman.nectar.cc> Message-ID: <20020612234305.W2539-100000@master.gorean.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Jacques A. Vidrine wrote: > This commit reminds me ... why are we still carrying the xten stuff > around? Lots of hysterical raisins in the archives on this. The traditional reasons it's still around amount to: 1. Some people actually use it. 2. The code has kernel bits (thus it's hard to port, not sure how true this is). 3. It's easier to keep in synch if it's in the tree, since people will see it get broken. Personally I'd like to see the people who care about this code get together and solve the porting problems. I agree that it has no place in the tree. Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 0: 9:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2456F37B476; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with SMTP id g5D797b5043718; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 03:09:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 03:09:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Doug Barton Cc: "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? In-Reply-To: <20020612234305.W2539-100000@master.gorean.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doug Barton wrote: > 1. Some people actually use it. > 2. The code has kernel bits (thus it's hard to port, not sure how true > this is). > 3. It's easier to keep in synch if it's in the tree, since people will see > it get broken. The model used for Coda is to store the kernel module in the base tree, but keep the userland stuff in a port. This allows the kernel module to track changes in the base system kernel closely, removing that maintenance issue and keeping it in synch, but doesn't keep the stuff in the base system that doesn't really fit well. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 0:22: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (lafontaine.noos.net [212.198.2.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30CA937B435 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 45495978 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2002 07:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.230.194]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.72 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 13 Jun 2002 07:21:57 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (b4nxpr149m62t7gl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5D7Lva6039605; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5D7LtE7039604; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020613072155.GA39353@gits.dyndns.org> References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 08:45:35PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 3:54 PM -0700 6/12/02, Juli Mallett wrote: > >I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those > >however, I am writing because a number of people have said > >they simply do not want any SCCS stuff in the base system. > >If the majority thinks this way, I will go and remove > >src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring > >something into the source tree. > > Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't > see why it would need to be in the base system. We just maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ > tossed perl *out* of the base system, and perl is a lot > more useful [in day-to-day work] than sccs would be. Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 0:23: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from sheffield.cnchost.com (sheffield.concentric.net [207.155.252.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 197B637B428; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by sheffield.cnchost.com id DAA06408; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 03:23:05 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <200206130723.DAA06408@sheffield.cnchost.com> To: rsi@panix.com Cc: Terry Lambert , "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System In-reply-to: Your message of "13 Jun 2002 00:27:59 EDT." <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:23:04 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that > the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility. Perhaps you are thinking of Kenneth Cox's sccs2rcs csh script posted to comp.sources.misc in 1990 or so? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 0:33:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4616A37B43D; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0150.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.150] helo=mindspring.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IP6W-0002cY-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:33:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3D084A91.FFD1B47@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:32:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: Doug Barton , "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doug Barton wrote: > > 1. Some people actually use it. > > 2. The code has kernel bits (thus it's hard to port, not sure how true > > this is). > > 3. It's easier to keep in synch if it's in the tree, since people will see > > it get broken. > > The model used for Coda is to store the kernel module in the base tree, > but keep the userland stuff in a port. This allows the kernel module to > track changes in the base system kernel closely, removing that maintenance > issue and keeping it in synch, but doesn't keep the stuff in the base > system that doesn't really fit well. Coda has a project. Perl has a project. TCL has a project. Xten does not have a project. This is effectively saying "Get a project to support you, because we are about to throw you in the ocean". Xten is significantly different that Perl and TCL. It is sufficiently different from Coda -- the Coda code in FreeBSD is a port of the Coda project software to FreeBSD, whereas the Xten code in FreeBSD did not come from an external source. Xten is most analogous to the video and sound drivers in FreeBSD; the majority of people using FreeBSD on rack mounts would be just as happy is, for example, "vidcontrol" became a port. I think this is really about two things: 1) The Perl advocates trying to punish everyone for getting rid of Perl in the base system, even though FreeBSD's Perl support has actually improved, since the system Perl left out important (to the Perl people) features. 2) People wanting the FreeBSD base to be broken into optional subsets, and attacking a weak target, just like a company filing a lawsuit against the littlest offender in order to get case law on their side (e.g. they failed with Sendmail, which was too big, so they are trying to get the camel's nose into the tent in another way). 3) People who want to make changes radical enough to break things, but who are too lazy to clean up the mess once they are done. If it's mostly #1, then the Perl people should continue the fight that they started, rather than showing sour grapes simply because they didn't refuse to yield, in the end. If it's mostly #2, then the place to work towards that is not by pushing everything else out of FreeBSD, until it's nothing more than a kernel, just like Linux. If they want this, they can either go over to Linux, or they can contribute code to the work that Eric Melville was doing. If it's mostly #3, well, it's really insane to let one person end up in control of the entire project just because they have the biggest chainsaw. That's not what FreeBSD is supposed to be about. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 0:35: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBDDD37B414; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0150.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.150] helo=mindspring.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IP8I-0003ZY-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:35:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3D084AFF.857987A9@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:34:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Garance A Drosihn , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020613072155.GA39353@gits.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't > > see why it would need to be in the base system. We just > > maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ OK, you win. > > tossed perl *out* of the base system, and perl is a lot > > more useful [in day-to-day work] than sccs would be. Sounds like the Perl camp needs to learn how to participate in public standards processes, so that the next version of the standard includes perl... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 0:45:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from 12-234-22-238.client.attbi.com (12-234-90-219.client.attbi.com [12.234.90.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDF7837B41F; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Master.gorean.org (master.gorean.org [10.0.0.2]) by 12-234-22-238.client.attbi.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5D7jfXN033608; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:45:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by Master.gorean.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g5D7jfXs003702; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:45:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: Master.gorean.org: doug owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:45:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Terry Lambert Cc: Robert Watson , "Jacques A. Vidrine" , Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? In-Reply-To: <3D084A91.FFD1B47@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20020613004013.K2539-100000@master.gorean.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > Coda has a project. > Perl has a project. > TCL has a project. > > Xten does not have a project. > > This is effectively saying "Get a project to support you, because we > are about to throw you in the ocean". I can certainly understand you coming to that conclusion. I would characterize my position as, "Since this code is used by very few people, those people should do the work of supporting it." The other examples you gave A) have a lot more general appeal than xten, and B) already have people to support them. > I think this is really about two things: > > 1) The Perl advocates trying to punish everyone for getting rid > of Perl in the base system, even though FreeBSD's Perl support > has actually improved, since the system Perl left out important > (to the Perl people) features. I consider myself to be a "Perl developer," in the sense that I use it, like it, and get paid to do it. However, I am on record as being opposed to importing it in the first place, and a vocal advocate for removing it. I also posted my first "Why is xten in the base?" post years ago. Thus, I don't think 1. applies to me. > 2) People wanting the FreeBSD base to be broken into optional > subsets, and attacking a weak target, just like a company > filing a lawsuit against the littlest offender in order to > get case law on their side (e.g. they failed with Sendmail, > which was too big, so they are trying to get the camel's > nose into the tent in another way). This has been going on for years. It's not new, and xten is not the only target. I'm definitely guilty of 2. > If it's mostly #2, then the place to work towards that is not by > pushing everything else out of FreeBSD, until it's nothing more > than a kernel, just like Linux. If they want this, they can either > go over to Linux, or they can contribute code to the work that Eric > Melville was doing. I don't think this is the way... I think there should definitely be a default distribution that has most of the relevant bits included by default. However, it should be a lot easier to eliminate bits than it is now. Doug -- "We have known freedom's price. We have shown freedom's power. And in this great conflict, ... we will see freedom's victory." - George W. Bush, President of the United States State of the Union, January 28, 2002 Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 1:14:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4F337B43D; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0150.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.150] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IPka-0002Gy-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3D085441.E458688E@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:13:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton Cc: Robert Watson , "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? References: <20020613004013.K2539-100000@master.gorean.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Barton wrote: > > Coda has a project. > > Perl has a project. > > TCL has a project. > > > > Xten does not have a project. > > > > This is effectively saying "Get a project to support you, because we > > are about to throw you in the ocean". > > I can certainly understand you coming to that conclusion. I would > characterize my position as, "Since this code is used by very few people, > those people should do the work of supporting it." The other examples you > gave A) have a lot more general appeal than xten, and B) already have > people to support them. What work do you feel needs to be done? I actually haven't seen any complaints about the support he code has gotten, so far. I think that's probably because it works. > > 2) People wanting the FreeBSD base to be broken into optional > > subsets, and attacking a weak target, just like a company > > filing a lawsuit against the littlest offender in order to > > get case law on their side (e.g. they failed with Sendmail, > > which was too big, so they are trying to get the camel's > > nose into the tent in another way). > > This has been going on for years. It's not new, and xten is not > the only target. I'm definitely guilty of 2. Me too. However, there's a project in place to do this, and the proper place to advocate this is in the context of code cotributed to that project. > > If it's mostly #2, then the place to work towards that is not by > > pushing everything else out of FreeBSD, until it's nothing more > > than a kernel, just like Linux. If they want this, they can either > > go over to Linux, or they can contribute code to the work that Eric > > Melville was doing. > > I don't think this is the way... I think there should definitely > be a default distribution that has most of the relevant bits included by > default. However, it should be a lot easier to eliminate bits than it is > now. Personally: me too. I think that the approach being taken has some pitfalls. However, it's the approach advocated by the project, and it's by one of the release maintainers (Eric cut the ISO's for at least one CD distribution, runor has it), so until/if it fails, or someone starts a competing project, and it wins, strangling babies "because adults fight back" is not the way to advocate the change. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 3:19: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C9837B434; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 03:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 0A5905361; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:18:57 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Juli Mallett Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 13 Jun 2002 12:18:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Juli Mallett writes: > I'm looking for architectural feedback not on either of those however, I am > writing because a number of people have said they simply do not want any > SCCS stuff in the base system. If the majority thinks this way, I will go > and remove src/usr.bin/{help,sccs} and abandon my efforts to bring something > into the source tree. No, please go ahead. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 5: 3:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D635C37B407; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 05:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17ITK0-0000Ng-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:03:24 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Garance A Drosihn , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200." <20020613072155.GA39353@gits.dyndns.org> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:03:24 +0200 Message-ID: <1467.1023969804@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't > > see why it would need to be in the base system. We just > > maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI extension. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 5:38:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9ED237B419; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 05:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17ITsN-0000Y1-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:38:55 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Cyrille Lefevre , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:03:24 +0200." <1467.1023969804@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:38:55 +0200 Message-ID: <2108.1023971935@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:03:24 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't > > > see why it would need to be in the base system. We just > > > > maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : > > > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ > > That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI > extension. I should have mentioned that I have no objection to the inclusion of these utilities in the base system. I just wanted to clarify the status of sccs with respect to the standard. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 7:26:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D77337B443; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0031.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.31] helo=mindspring.com) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IVVd-0002hn-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:23:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3D08AA50.EBF82917@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:21:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , Garance A Drosihn , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <1467.1023969804@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > > Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't > > > see why it would need to be in the base system. We just > > > > maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : > > > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ > > That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI > extension. Just like mmap(). 8-) 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 9:57:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524A637B40C for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5DGv8DK006868; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:57:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5DGv7la006866; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:57:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:57:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <200206131657.g5DGv7la006866@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System In-Reply-To: <20020613072155.GA39353@gits.dyndns.org> References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science Cc: arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In article <20020613072155.GA39353@gits.dyndns.org> you write: >maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ Irrelevant. The Standard does not care how the utilities are packaged, only that someone installing the operating system gets them if she asks. - -GAWollman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9CM7fI+eG6b7tlG4RAuqqAJ9nFbFJfJsO+2p6tjuHfzPRqc6P5gCgqziM x8IrSK12G9XGiQMBjCPWNog= =b0mf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 10: 2:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9357137B41A; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5DH2htp027574; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:02:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020613072155.GA39353@gits.dyndns.org> References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020613072155.GA39353@gits.dyndns.org> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:02:42 -0400 To: Cyrille Lefevre From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Cc: Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:21 AM +0200 6/13/02, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: >On Wed, Jun 12, 2002, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't >> see why it would need to be in the base system. We just > >maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ Strictly speaking, it is not a requirement. That is not to say that I am against having it in the base system, it's just that I don't think there is any groundswell of demand for it, and there is nothing about it which implies it must be a part of the base system. (if sccs needed some kind of hooks into the kernel, for instance, then that would imply it should be in the base OS). The program itself should work just as fine as a port. I do think it would be interesting to have somewhere, and I myself see no stigma attached to having something as a port. /usr/ports/posix, perhaps? :-) So, think of my position as a weak vote for sccs as a port, and being pretty close to neutral on having it in the base. Opinions were asked for, and that is my opinion... -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 10:14: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B6F37B409; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17IYAt-0002Bp-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:14:19 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:02:42 -0400." Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:14:19 +0200 Message-ID: <8420.1023988459@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:02:42 -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > So, think of my position as a weak vote for sccs as a port, > and being pretty close to neutral on having it in the base. > Opinions were asked for, and that is my opinion... So far, all the views expressed suggest that Mr Mallett should proceed with his work on the utilities. I think it's reasonable that the work can be done in the FreeBSD repo. If it's later deemed necessary to move the software into the ports tree, the work done will not have been done in vain, nor will its having been done in the FreeBSD repo be of any concern. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 10:25:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from thuvia.demon.co.uk (thuvia.demon.co.uk [193.237.34.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25D3937B400 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dotar.thuvia.org (dotar.thuvia.org [10.0.0.4]) by phaidor.thuvia.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5DHP3N37499; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:25:04 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar.thuvia.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g5DHP3f13160; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:25:03 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:25:03 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <200206131725.g5DHP3f13160@dotar.thuvia.org> In-Reply-To: Garrett Wollman's message of Jun 13, 5:05pm X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman), cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Cc: arch@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) > Date: Thu 13 Jun, 2002 > Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System > >maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : > > > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ > > Irrelevant. > > The Standard does not care how the utilities are packaged, only that > someone installing the operating system gets them if she asks. I agree that this doesn't need to be a core part of FreeBSD. On the other hand I feel it warrants being better integrated than a port, for both historical and standards reasons. That's to say, if it's installed, I'd like it to use the BSD makefiles and live in /usr/bin. Also, I believe that certain standards-related components like this warrant being supported by the project (albeit as contrib material), and we do have a committer behind this one. Currently, doing this requires that it go in the base system, but once we've cracked the packaging of the base system I'd see it as a sub-package of an optional XSI Extensions package, which probably wouldn't even be in the default "BSD" package bundle. If we could live with it being in the base system for now, but not have people rely on it being there by default in future, importing it into contrib wouldn't be too painful, would it? Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 12:18:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (camus.noos.net [212.198.2.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD2F37B419 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26116157 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2002 19:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.230.194]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.70 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 13 Jun 2002 19:18:22 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (jzqze0xq2iehq4ut@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5DJIKa6045706; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:18:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5DJIGNL045705; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:18:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:18:16 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Terry Lambert Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Garance A Drosihn , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020613191816.GA44881@gits.dyndns.org> References: <1467.1023969804@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <3D08AA50.EBF82917@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D08AA50.EBF82917@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 07:21:04AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:21:55 +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > > > Hmm. It might be nice to have around as a port, but I don't > > > > see why it would need to be in the base system. We just > > > > > > maybe because they are required by SUSV3 : > > > > > > http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ > > > > That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI > > extension. > > Just like mmap(). 8-) 8-). ls and ps are better examples since mmap is a syscall while the others are command line utilities :P Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 12:35:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D44537B416 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 18315698 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2002 19:35:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.230.194]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.73 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 13 Jun 2002 19:35:04 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (07927fp4prycaaku@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5DJZ3a6046486; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:35:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5DJZ2S1046485; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:35:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:35:02 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Terry Lambert Cc: rsi@panix.com, "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020613193502.GA46292@gits.dyndns.org> References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3D07D683.E8432EFB@mindspring.com> <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com> <3D083120.F2E704C3@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D083120.F2E704C3@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:44:00PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Rajappa Iyer wrote: > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > I agree. I'd like to be able to look at the changes and comments > > > in the historical BSD 4.2/4.3/4.4 source trees that you can buy > > > from Kirk, so that you can see *why* particular things happened, > > > rather than just *that* they happened. > > > > Didn't RCS used to have an sccs2rcs command? I seem to recall that > > the original version by Walter Tichy did have that utility. > > I couldn't tell you. I know that FreeBSD doesn't have it now, > and FreeBSD has RCS as part of CVS. bip! /usr/src/contrib/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs.in Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 12:54: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2FC37B437 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 70472509 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2002 19:53:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gits.gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.230.194]) (envelope-sender ) by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 13 Jun 2002 19:53:52 -0000 Received: from gits.gits.dyndns.org (bcwgwstfuhl6frco@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5DJrpa6046633; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:53:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root@gits.dyndns.org) Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.gits.dyndns.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5DJrpkT046632; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:53:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from root) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:53:50 +0200 From: Cyrille Lefevre To: Robert Watson Cc: Doug Barton , "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? Message-ID: <20020613195350.GB46292@gits.dyndns.org> Mail-Followup-To: Cyrille Lefevre , Robert Watson , Doug Barton , "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <20020612234305.W2539-100000@master.gorean.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.99i Organization: ACME X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[< List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 03:09:05AM -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doug Barton wrote: > > > 1. Some people actually use it. > > 2. The code has kernel bits (thus it's hard to port, not sure how true > > this is). > > 3. It's easier to keep in synch if it's in the tree, since people will see > > it get broken. > > The model used for Coda is to store the kernel module in the base tree, > but keep the userland stuff in a port. This allows the kernel module to > track changes in the base system kernel closely, removing that maintenance > issue and keeping it in synch, but doesn't keep the stuff in the base > system that doesn't really fit well. xten kernel sources are only 40 KB and xten utility (w/o s) is only 32 KB while coda and such projects take far more space than this small one. does this really need a full thread about so few bytes ? Cyrille. -- Cyrille Lefevre mailto:cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 16:38:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 36DDD37B409; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:38:18 -0700 From: Juli Mallett To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: Garance A Drosihn , Cyrille Lefevre , arch@FreeBSD.ORG, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020613163818.A61161@FreeBSD.ORG> References: <8420.1023988459@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <8420.1023988459@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za>; from sheldonh@starjuice.net on Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 07:14:19PM +0200 Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-Alternate-Addresses: , , , X-Affiliated-Projects: FreeBSD, xMach, ircd-hybrid-7 X-Towel: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Sheldon Hearn escriurères > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:02:42 -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > So, think of my position as a weak vote for sccs as a port, > > and being pretty close to neutral on having it in the base. > > Opinions were asked for, and that is my opinion... > > I think it's reasonable that the work can be done in the FreeBSD repo. > If it's later deemed necessary to move the software into the ports tree, > the work done will not have been done in vain, nor will its having been > done in the FreeBSD repo be of any concern. I have CVS files for it on freefall, I'm thinking maybe I should ask for them to be surgically implanted into projects/sccs ? That way I can try to drag all of you other committers into working on it, and so on. Does this sound reasonable? -- Juli Mallett FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Perception is prejudice / Don't classify me / Accept me as me / Not what you see To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 16:41:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 7B91737B41D; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:40:56 -0700 From: Juli Mallett To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Terry Lambert , Sheldon Hearn , Garance A Drosihn , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020613164056.D61161@FreeBSD.ORG> References: <1467.1023969804@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <3D08AA50.EBF82917@mindspring.com> <20020613191816.GA44881@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020613191816.GA44881@gits.dyndns.org>; from cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net on Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 09:18:16PM +0200 Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-Alternate-Addresses: , , , X-Affiliated-Projects: FreeBSD, xMach, ircd-hybrid-7 X-Towel: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Cyrille Lefevre escriurères > > > > Just like mmap(). 8-) 8-). > > ls and ps are better examples since mmap is a syscall while the others > are command line utilities :P Plus mmap(2) was an interface developed alongside BSD, if I'm recalling my UNIX history right, though Sun shipped it before Berkeley did. -- Juli Mallett FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Perception is prejudice / Don't classify me / Accept me as me / Not what you see To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 17: 9:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8EA37B443; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0043.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.43] helo=mindspring.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17Ieey-0000JU-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:09:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3D093427.550ADE1@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:09:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Sheldon Hearn , Garance A Drosihn , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <1467.1023969804@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <3D08AA50.EBF82917@mindspring.com> <20020613191816.GA44881@gits.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > > That's a bit misleading. The sccs utility is clearly marked as an XSI > > > extension. > > > > Just like mmap(). 8-) 8-). > > ls and ps are better examples since mmap is a syscall while the others > are command line utilities :P http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/help/codes.html#XSI If an entire SYNOPSIS section is shaded and marked XSI, all the functionality described in that reference page is an extension. See XSI Conformance . http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/utilities/ls.html Not all "ls" functionaluty is an extension. All mmap functionality is: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007904975/functions/mmap.html -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 17:12:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D224B37B43F; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0043.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.43] helo=mindspring.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IehZ-0003dt-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:12:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3D0934C8.D896730D@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:11:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: rsi@panix.com, Greg 'groggy' Lehey , Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3D07D683.E8432EFB@mindspring.com> <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com> <3D083120.F2E704C3@mindspring.com> <20020613193502.GA46292@gits.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > I couldn't tell you. I know that FreeBSD doesn't have it now, > > and FreeBSD has RCS as part of CVS. > > bip! /usr/src/contrib/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs.in If that counts, then there are a heck of a lot of things that FreeBSD "has" that aren't installed, including the ability to build sendmail configuration files from m4 sources. I think "which sccs2rcs" is a more accurate measure of whether FreeBSD has it, or not. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 17:13:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.icir.org (iguana.icir.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE9D37B400; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.icir.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g5E0DKp94630; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:13:19 -0700 From: "'Luigi Rizzo'" To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available Message-ID: <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Bcc to -net] Hi, as I mentioned in a posting to -net a few days ago, over the past weeks I have done an extensive rewrite of the ipfw code (both userland and kernel) in an attempt to make it faster, more flexible and more manageable. The code is now almost ready for commit, so I would appreciate some feedback if any of you feels like trying it and, even better, run some performance test. You can fetch the code from http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ipfw5.20020613.tgz This is for a -current after May 15th, and replaces sys/netinet/ip_fw.c sys/netinet/ip_fw.h sys/netinet/ip_dummynet.c sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c The idea behind this work was to replace the old ipfw rules (macroinstructions) with a set of microinstructions, each of them performing a single operation such as matching an address, or a port range, or a protocol flag, etc. -- much in the spirit of BPF and derivatives -- and to let the userland front-end compile ipfw(8) commands into an appropriate set of microinstructions. There are several advantages in using this technique: first of all, instructions are typically shorter and faster, because the old code had to check for the presence of all the possible options (there are over 25 of them!) in a rule, whereas the new one can simply do just the things that are required. I have implemented all the actions (accept/deny/pipe/divert/forward ...) and almost all the 25+ (ouch!) different options that can be specified in a rule. The syntax for the userland program is 100% backward compatible. I have also implemented a few extensions to demonstrate the flexibility of the new approach: you can put "or" connectives between fields, so you can write things like ipfw add allow ip from host1 or host2 or host3 or not net1/24 to any and the like, and this greatly simplifies writing rulesets as you can imagine. Other extensions (in the form of address sets, multiple rule chains to be used on layer-2 and layer-3 firewalls, etc. will be trivial to implement. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) Mobile +39-347-0373137 -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 17:20:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B47137B440; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0043.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.43] helo=mindspring.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17Ienn-0003hP-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:18:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3D09364A.586D9E19@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:18:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: Robert Watson , Doug Barton , "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? References: <20020612234305.W2539-100000@master.gorean.org> <20020613195350.GB46292@gits.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > xten kernel sources are only 40 KB and xten utility (w/o s) is only 32 KB > while coda and such projects take far more space than this small one. > > does this really need a full thread about so few bytes ? I keep telling you, it's political. It's not about xten at all. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 17:31:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C440737B419 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 63749 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2002 00:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pipeline.ch) ([62.48.0.54]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 14 Jun 2002 00:28:23 -0000 Message-ID: <3D0938CE.34C7AA89@pipeline.ch> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:29:02 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'Luigi Rizzo' Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available References: <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 'Luigi Rizzo' wrote: > > [Bcc to -net] > > Hi, > as I mentioned in a posting to -net a few days ago, over the past > weeks I have done an extensive rewrite of the ipfw code (both userland > and kernel) in an attempt to make it faster, more flexible and more Cool stuff! I'm impressed! -- Andre > The code is now almost ready for commit, so I would appreciate > some feedback if any of you feels like trying it and, even > better, run some performance test. You can fetch the code from > > http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ipfw5.20020613.tgz > > This is for a -current after May 15th, and replaces > > sys/netinet/ip_fw.c > sys/netinet/ip_fw.h > sys/netinet/ip_dummynet.c > sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c > > The idea behind this work was to replace the old ipfw rules > (macroinstructions) with a set of microinstructions, each of them > performing a single operation such as matching an address, or a > port range, or a protocol flag, etc. -- much in the spirit of BPF > and derivatives -- and to let the userland front-end compile ipfw(8) > commands into an appropriate set of microinstructions. > > There are several advantages in using this technique: first of all, > instructions are typically shorter and faster, because the old > code had to check for the presence of all the possible options > (there are over 25 of them!) in a rule, whereas the new one can > simply do just the things that are required. > > I have implemented all the actions (accept/deny/pipe/divert/forward > ...) and almost all the 25+ (ouch!) different options that can be > specified in a rule. The syntax for the userland program is 100% > backward compatible. > > I have also implemented a few extensions to demonstrate the flexibility > of the new approach: you can put "or" connectives between fields, > so you can write things like > > ipfw add allow ip from host1 or host2 or host3 or not net1/24 to any > > and the like, and this greatly simplifies writing rulesets as > you can imagine. > > Other extensions (in the form of address sets, multiple rule > chains to be used on layer-2 and layer-3 firewalls, etc. will > be trivial to implement. > > cheers > luigi > > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > Mobile +39-347-0373137 > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 17:53:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F8337B41C for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5E0Y9tp109990; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:34:10 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D0934C8.D896730D@mindspring.com> References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3D07D683.E8432EFB@mindspring.com> <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com> <3D083120.F2E704C3@mindspring.com> <20020613193502.GA46292@gits.dyndns.org> <3D0934C8.D896730D@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:34:08 -0400 To: Terry Lambert , Cyrille Lefevre From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 5:11 PM -0700 6/13/02, Terry Lambert wrote: >Cyrille Lefevre wrote: >> > I couldn't tell you. I know that FreeBSD doesn't have it now, >> > and FreeBSD has RCS as part of CVS. >> >> bip! /usr/src/contrib/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs.in > >If that counts, then there are a heck of a lot of things that >FreeBSD "has" that aren't installed, including the ability to >build sendmail configuration files from m4 sources. > >I think "which sccs2rcs" is a more accurate measure of whether >FreeBSD has it, or not. 8-). You might want to try 'locate' instead: /usr/share/examples/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 18: 0: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3037637B42A for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0043.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.43] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IfN7-0004sz-00; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:55:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3D093ED5.F7E8FE9E@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:54:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3D07D683.E8432EFB@mindspring.com> <200206130427.g5D4RxB02065@panix2.panix.com> <3D083120.F2E704C3@mindspring.com> <20020613193502.GA46292@gits.dyndns.org> <3D0934C8.D896730D@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Garance A Drosihn wrote: > >I think "which sccs2rcs" is a more accurate measure of whether > >FreeBSD has it, or not. 8-). > > You might want to try 'locate' instead: > /usr/share/examples/cvs/contrib/sccs2rcs The only problem is, when I run it, it still complainst that it can't find the command "sccs". --- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 19:24:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from heaven.gigo.com (heaven.gigo.com [64.57.102.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A7E37B40D for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 200-193-224-003-bsace7003.dsl.telebrasilia.net.br (200-193-224-003-bsace7003.dsl.telebrasilia.net.br [200.193.224.3]) by heaven.gigo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649F2B8F2 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 94571 invoked by uid 1001); 14 Jun 2002 02:23:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20020614022304.94570.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:22:42 -0300 From: Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira To: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org Cc: msmith@FreeBSD.org Subject: Adding SO_NOSIGPIPE to -STABLE/-CURRENT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="sdtB3X0nJg68CQEu" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.6-PRERELEASE X-Disclaimer: I hope you find what you are looking for... in life :) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --sdtB3X0nJg68CQEu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I would like you to review this proposal to add the socket option SO_NOSIGPIPE: "Do not issue SIGPIPE on EPIPE." Therefore, we can disable SIGPIPE on a per socket basis instead of completing ignoring it with either sigpromask(2) or signal(3) handling. I can already hear the bikeshed legions crying that this is not necessary since we can just use one of the aformentioned options. Furthermore, who might want to handle SIGPIPE? Is it of use? For those that might find it useful, here go a simple scenario not easily reproduceable without SO_NOSIGPIPE: multi-threaded client, some threads want to handle SIGPIPE, others not. Similar options can be found in: - Darwin - SOF_NOSIGPIPE - Linux - MSG_NOSIGNAL - Solaris - Don't recall - Possibly others Do not dimiss this without consideration. This adds functionality without detracting from our system base. This patch was written against -STABLE since it's the system I use but should be easily re-written against -CURRENT. Credits to whom they are due, original sample code was kindly provided by Mike Smith from Darwin's codebase. Obtained from: Darwin (msmith sent me darwin's code) Regards, ps: Please CC: me since it seems I've not been able to subscribe to -arch -- Mario S F Ferreira - DF - Brazil - "I guess this is a signature." Computer Science Undergraduate | FreeBSD Committer | CS Developer flames to beloved devnull@someotherworldbeloworabove.org feature, n: a documented bug | bug, n: an undocumented feature --sdtB3X0nJg68CQEu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=patch-nosigpipe --- sys/sys/socket.h.orig Mon Feb 25 19:32:57 2002 +++ sys/sys/socket.h Tue Feb 26 00:12:02 2002 @@ -78,6 +78,7 @@ #define SO_OOBINLINE 0x0100 /* leave received OOB data in line */ #define SO_REUSEPORT 0x0200 /* allow local address & port reuse */ #define SO_TIMESTAMP 0x0400 /* timestamp received dgram traffic */ +#define SO_NOSIGPIPE 0x0800 /* no sigpipe on epipe */ #define SO_ACCEPTFILTER 0x1000 /* there is an accept filter */ /* --- sys/kern/sys_generic.c.orig Mon Feb 25 19:22:18 2002 +++ sys/kern/sys_generic.c Mon Feb 25 19:22:55 2002 @@ -409,7 +409,8 @@ if (auio.uio_resid != cnt && (error == ERESTART || error == EINTR || error == EWOULDBLOCK)) error = 0; - if (error == EPIPE) + /* The socket layer handles SIGPIPE */ + if (error == EPIPE && fp->f_type != DTYPE_SOCKET) psignal(p, SIGPIPE); } cnt -= auio.uio_resid; --- sys/kern/uipc_socket.c.orig Mon Feb 25 19:26:17 2002 +++ sys/kern/uipc_socket.c Tue Feb 26 10:30:59 2002 @@ -1157,6 +1157,7 @@ case SO_REUSEPORT: case SO_OOBINLINE: case SO_TIMESTAMP: + case SO_NOSIGPIPE: error = sooptcopyin(sopt, &optval, sizeof optval, sizeof optval); if (error) @@ -1339,6 +1340,7 @@ case SO_BROADCAST: case SO_OOBINLINE: case SO_TIMESTAMP: + case SO_NOSIGPIPE: optval = so->so_options & sopt->sopt_name; integer: error = sooptcopyout(sopt, &optval, sizeof optval); --- sys/kern/uipc_syscalls.c.orig Mon Feb 25 19:59:54 2002 +++ sys/kern/uipc_syscalls.c Mon Feb 25 20:01:48 2002 @@ -586,7 +586,8 @@ if (auio.uio_resid != len && (error == ERESTART || error == EINTR || error == EWOULDBLOCK)) error = 0; - if (error == EPIPE) + /* Generation of SIGPIPE can be controlled per socket */ + if (error == EPIPE && !(so->so_options & SO_NOSIGPIPE)) psignal(p, SIGPIPE); } if (error == 0) --sdtB3X0nJg68CQEu-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 19:48:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB56737B431; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5E2mRtp096308; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:48:27 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020614022304.94570.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> References: <20020614022304.94570.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:48:26 -0400 To: Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Adding SO_NOSIGPIPE to -STABLE/-CURRENT Cc: msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:22 PM -0300 6/13/02, Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira wrote: > Similar options can be found in: > > - Darwin - SOF_NOSIGPIPE > - Linux - MSG_NOSIGNAL > - Solaris - Don't recall > - Possibly others After a very quick check of include files on solaris, nothing obvious jumps out at me... How is the proposed SO_NOSIGPIPE different from SOF_NOSIGPIPE or MSG_NOSIGNAL? If the behavior is meant to be exact the same as one of those, then should we pick the same name? -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 22:50: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from heaven.gigo.com (heaven.gigo.com [64.57.102.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6401C37B407 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 200-193-224-003-bsace7003.dsl.telebrasilia.net.br (200-193-224-003-bsace7003.dsl.telebrasilia.net.br [200.193.224.3]) by heaven.gigo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74340B916 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1255 invoked by uid 1001); 14 Jun 2002 05:49:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20020614054920.1254.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:48:58 -0300 From: Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding SO_NOSIGPIPE to -STABLE/-CURRENT References: <20020614022304.94570.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from drosih@rpi.edu on Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 10:48:04PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.6-PRERELEASE X-Disclaimer: I hope you find what you are looking for... in life :) Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 10:48:04PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 11:22 PM -0300 6/13/02, Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira wrote: > > Similar options can be found in: > > > > - Darwin - SOF_NOSIGPIPE > > - Linux - MSG_NOSIGNAL > > - Solaris - Don't recall > > - Possibly others > > After a very quick check of include files on solaris, nothing obvious > jumps out at me... > > How is the proposed SO_NOSIGPIPE different from SOF_NOSIGPIPE or > MSG_NOSIGNAL? If the behavior is meant to be exact the same as > one of those, then should we pick the same name? They all behave the same. Since this is meant to be a socket option, I prefer SO* to non-standard naming MSG_NOSIGNAL. Darwin call it SOF_NOSIGPIPE because they use it as socket flag as opposed to a socket option such as either SO_DONTTRUNC or SO_WANTMORE. Well, Linux has it as a socket option, it looks okay as a socket option so the name begins with SO_. SO_NOSIGPIPE because it describes well its use as it does in Darwin. However, that's my opinion. I am all open to suggestions. -- Mario S F Ferreira - DF - Brazil - "I guess this is a signature." Computer Science Undergraduate | FreeBSD Committer | CS Developer flames to beloved devnull@someotherworldbeloworabove.org feature, n: a documented bug | bug, n: an undocumented feature To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 23: 0:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A87037B408 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020614060011.JLVE20219.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 06:00:11 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA97543; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:41:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "'Luigi Rizzo'" Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available In-Reply-To: <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Luigi. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.. Too busy at USENIX.. I'll try look at it after I et back after I do KSE-MIII after..... :-) On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, 'Luigi Rizzo' wrote: > [Bcc to -net] > > Hi, > as I mentioned in a posting to -net a few days ago, over the past > weeks I have done an extensive rewrite of the ipfw code (both userland > and kernel) in an attempt to make it faster, more flexible and more > manageable. > > The code is now almost ready for commit, so I would appreciate > some feedback if any of you feels like trying it and, even > better, run some performance test. You can fetch the code from > > http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ipfw5.20020613.tgz > > This is for a -current after May 15th, and replaces > > sys/netinet/ip_fw.c > sys/netinet/ip_fw.h > sys/netinet/ip_dummynet.c > sbin/ipfw/ipfw.c > > The idea behind this work was to replace the old ipfw rules > (macroinstructions) with a set of microinstructions, each of them > performing a single operation such as matching an address, or a > port range, or a protocol flag, etc. -- much in the spirit of BPF > and derivatives -- and to let the userland front-end compile ipfw(8) > commands into an appropriate set of microinstructions. > > There are several advantages in using this technique: first of all, > instructions are typically shorter and faster, because the old > code had to check for the presence of all the possible options > (there are over 25 of them!) in a rule, whereas the new one can > simply do just the things that are required. > > I have implemented all the actions (accept/deny/pipe/divert/forward > ...) and almost all the 25+ (ouch!) different options that can be > specified in a rule. The syntax for the userland program is 100% > backward compatible. > > I have also implemented a few extensions to demonstrate the flexibility > of the new approach: you can put "or" connectives between fields, > so you can write things like > > ipfw add allow ip from host1 or host2 or host3 or not net1/24 to any > > and the like, and this greatly simplifies writing rulesets as > you can imagine. > > Other extensions (in the form of address sets, multiple rule > chains to be used on layer-2 and layer-3 firewalls, etc. will > be trivial to implement. > > cheers > luigi > > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione > http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa > TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > Mobile +39-347-0373137 > -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 23:38:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE4CD37B41A; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E6cPY14928; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:38:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5E6cPG47036; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:38:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:38:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020614.003819.97397450.imp@village.org> To: DougB@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: nectar@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20020612234305.W2539-100000@master.gorean.org> References: <20020612123518.GC34267@madman.nectar.cc> <20020612234305.W2539-100000@master.gorean.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <20020612234305.W2539-100000@master.gorean.org> Doug Barton writes: : 3. It's easier to keep in synch if it's in the tree, since people will see : it get broken. That's why it is there. : Personally I'd like to see the people who care about this code get : together and solve the porting problems. I agree that it has no place in : the tree. Personally, I'd rather see that the ports people have a good way to deal with kernel stuff first :-) Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 23:42:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6512037B433 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E6g6Y14942 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:42:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5E6g5G47052 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:42:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020614.004200.88817430.imp@village.org> To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20020613004013.K2539-100000@master.gorean.org> References: <3D084A91.FFD1B47@mindspring.com> <20020613004013.K2539-100000@master.gorean.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been keeping an eye on the xtem stuff. In the past that's been sufficient to keep something in the tree. It has been a while since I've looked at the kernel parts of things, but I think they still compile. The tw driver still compiles and seems to work, although the hardware is getting hard to come by. There's really no harm in keeping it in the tree... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 23:43:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845CC37B419; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E6hoY14957; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:43:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5E6hnG47065; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:43:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020614.004343.81090155.imp@village.org> To: cyrille.lefevre@laposte.net Cc: rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG, DougB@FreeBSD.ORG, nectar@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20020613195350.GB46292@gits.dyndns.org> References: <20020612234305.W2539-100000@master.gorean.org> <20020613195350.GB46292@gits.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <20020613195350.GB46292@gits.dyndns.org> Cyrille Lefevre writes: : xten kernel sources are only 40 KB and xten utility (w/o s) is only 32 KB : while coda and such projects take far more space than this small one. : : does this really need a full thread about so few bytes ? Moreover, I've been keeping an eye on them to make sure they still compile.... Let sleeping dogs lie, eh? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 23:47:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C36637B400 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.3/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g5E6jYV7038615; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:45:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: "'Luigi Rizzo'" Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:13:19 PDT." <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:45:34 +0200 Message-ID: <38614.1024037134@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org>, "'Luigi Rizzo'" writes: >as I mentioned in a posting to -net a few days ago, over the past >weeks I have done an extensive rewrite of the ipfw code (both userland >and kernel) in an attempt to make it faster, more flexible and more >manageable. Does your testing reveal if it is faster ? Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 23:47:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5404C37B413 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5E6lpY14998; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5E6loG47100; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:47:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:47:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020614.004743.27325725.imp@village.org> To: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: marcel@xcllnt.net Subject: Re: Standardized make options (or no doesn't always mean no) From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20020609101333.A26546@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <3D02E881.2F3F57CB@mindspring.com> <20020609072725.GA47864@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> <20020609101333.A26546@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <20020609101333.A26546@dragon.nuxi.com> "David O'Brien" writes: : [please take care to NOT CC me, I do read arch@] : : On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 12:27:25AM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: : > Also, I believe in earlier discussions NO_BLA was in favor by most of : > the people involved, but I can be wrong here (too). : : You are correct. I estimate this discussion was 2 years ago now. : Everyone except BDE (and maybe a few others) wanted NOFOO, all the rest : wanted NO_FOO. In June 2000, Kris Kennaway made a set of patches to : change most everything to NO_. I think you ment that everybody wanted NO_FOO, except bde and a couple others. They wanted to retain the traditional NOFOO. NO_FOO is the new standard. We didn't do the cutover in 2000 because it was deemed too disruptive for folks that have 4.x and current builds on the same box. With the ability to set make.conf on a per-build basis now, that's a moot point. I can see no real reason for not completing the cutover, except manpower. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Thu Jun 13 23:51:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-relay1.yahoo.com (mail-relay1.yahoo.com [216.145.48.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F40B37B421 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FreeBSD.org (12-234-90-219.client.attbi.com [12.234.90.219]) by mail-relay1.yahoo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F038B5C5; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D09926D.55CD5C19@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:51:25 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? References: <3D084A91.FFD1B47@mindspring.com> <20020613004013.K2539-100000@master.gorean.org> <20020614.004200.88817430.imp@village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "M. Warner Losh" wrote: > > I've been keeping an eye on the xtem stuff. In the past that's been > sufficient to keep something in the tree. Agreed, my purpose in posting on this thread originally was just to summarize the historical reasons behind why it's still hanging around. I would suggest that you might want to add something to /usr/src/MAINTAINERS so that we can short-circuit this argument next time it comes up. Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 0: 2: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.icir.org (iguana.icir.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A90E37B42F for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.icir.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g5E71CB97256; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:01:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:01:12 -0700 From: "'Luigi Rizzo'" To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available Message-ID: <20020614000112.A96898@iguana.icir.org> References: <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org> <38614.1024037134@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <38614.1024037134@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@critter.freebsd.dk on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 08:45:34AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 08:45:34AM +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org>, "'Luigi Rizzo'" writes: > > >as I mentioned in a posting to -net a few days ago, over the past > >weeks I have done an extensive rewrite of the ipfw code (both userland > >and kernel) in an attempt to make it faster, more flexible and more > >manageable. > > Does your testing reveal if it is faster ? not tried yet, my day is only 24 hours and i am using lot of it already :( It does reveal that the new code is orders of magnitude easier to extend, debug and audit, which seems to me an equally important result. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 0:26:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3FA37B415; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17IlTr-0007KA-00; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:26:47 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Juli Mallett Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:38:18 MST." <20020613163818.A61161@FreeBSD.ORG> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:26:47 +0200 Message-ID: <28157.1024039607@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:38:18 MST, Juli Mallett wrote: > > I think it's reasonable that the work can be done in the FreeBSD repo. > > If it's later deemed necessary to move the software into the ports tree, > > the work done will not have been done in vain, nor will its having been > > done in the FreeBSD repo be of any concern. > > I have CVS files for it on freefall, I'm thinking maybe I should ask for them > to be surgically implanted into projects/sccs ? > > That way I can try to drag all of you other committers into working on it, and > so on. > > Does this sound reasonable? I guess. I actually thought you'd be doing this in src itself, since that's where sccs is already. But I think this is one of those things where you can't lose either way. If you go the projects/sccs route and you started with what's in src/usr.bin/sccs, just make sure what goes in projects/sccs preserves CVS history. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 0:30:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 931) id 9E45837B426; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:30:24 -0700 From: Juli Mallett To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020614003023.A15333@FreeBSD.ORG> References: <20020613163818.A61161@FreeBSD.ORG> <28157.1024039607@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <28157.1024039607@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za>; from sheldonh@starjuice.net on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 09:26:47AM +0200 Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-Alternate-Addresses: , , , X-Affiliated-Projects: FreeBSD, xMach, ircd-hybrid-7 X-Towel: Yes Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Sheldon Hearn escriurères > > I guess. I actually thought you'd be doing this in src itself, since > that's where sccs is already. But I think this is one of those things > where you can't lose either way. > > If you go the projects/sccs route and you started with what's in > src/usr.bin/sccs, just make sure what goes in projects/sccs preserves > CVS history. > Well, if things are still up in the air about this, I'd rather work in the projects area, and once people are happy with the code itself, revisit the issue. If it's solid, it'll be easier to use the "neutral" stances taken to justify a vendor import into src/contrib. Or so I think. projects/sccs/sccscmds would come from my repo, projects/sccs/sccs would come from ncvs. Thanks. -- Juli Mallett FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Perception is prejudice / Don't classify me / Accept me as me / Not what you see To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 0:41: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F1A37B40E; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17Ilha-0007Nz-00; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:40:58 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Juli Mallett Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:30:24 MST." <20020614003023.A15333@FreeBSD.ORG> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:40:58 +0200 Message-ID: <28394.1024040458@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 00:30:24 MST, Juli Mallett wrote: > Well, if things are still up in the air about this, I'd rather work in the > projects area, and once people are happy with the code itself, revisit the > issue. If it's solid, it'll be easier to use the "neutral" stances taken > to justify a vendor import into src/contrib. Or so I think. > > projects/sccs/sccscmds would come from my repo, projects/sccs/sccs would > come from ncvs. Cool. Meetind adjourned. ;-) Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 4:30: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB56337B440 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 04:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 08CA85361; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:29:55 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "'Luigi Rizzo'" Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available References: <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org> <38614.1024037134@critter.freebsd.dk> <20020614000112.A96898@iguana.icir.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 Jun 2002 13:29:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20020614000112.A96898@iguana.icir.org> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "'Luigi Rizzo'" writes: > It does reveal that the new code is orders of magnitude easier to extend, > debug and audit, which seems to me an equally important result. Absolutely. Excellent work, Luigi! DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 4:40:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.jet.msk.su (relay1.jet.msk.su [194.87.88.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE4D37B40D for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 04:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tiger ([193.124.4.1] helo=tiger.jet.msk.su) by relay1.jet.msk.su with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17IpRP-0003Nb-00 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:40:31 +0400 Received: from eel.service.jet.msk.su [192.168.10.183] (jema) by tiger.jet.msk.su with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #2) id 17IpRN-0000SQ-00; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:40:29 +0400 Message-ID: <3D09D5C7.A4E1591B@jet.msk.su> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:38:47 +0400 From: "Andrew V. Jemerya" Organization: Jet Infosystems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.8 i86pc) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available Content-Type: text/plain; charset= Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Can i use this new ipfw snapshot for 4.x? With best regards Andrew V. Jemerya To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 8:58:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femme.listmistress.org (bgp01560565bgs.gambrl01.md.comcast.net [68.50.32.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC78937B40C for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femme.listmistress.org (trish@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5EFwQYx000499; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g5EFwNjk000496; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:58:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: femme.listmistress.org: trish owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:58:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Trish Lynch X-X-Sender: To: "'Luigi Rizzo'" Cc: Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available In-Reply-To: <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org> Message-ID: <20020614115325.L461-100000@femme.listmistress.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, 'Luigi Rizzo' wrote: > > I have implemented all the actions (accept/deny/pipe/divert/forward > ...) and almost all the 25+ (ouch!) different options that can be > specified in a rule. The syntax for the userland program is 100% > backward compatible. > Did something change with the syntax of divert rules? ipfw add divert 8668 from any to any via fxp1 returns an error, "Illegal divert/tee port" of course this makes it difficult to use natd with it :) (how I built: I built world and a kernel with old ipfw, then rebooted, backed up /sbin/ipfw and the /boot/kernel directories, then backed up /include/netinet/ip_fw.h and /include/netinet/ip_dummynet.h and replaced them with your versions, and rebuilt ipfw and the kernel with the new code, did I miss something?) -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish@bsdunix.net FreeBSD The Power to Serve Ecartis Core Team trish@listmistress.org http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 10: 0:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904ED37B40D; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b178.otenet.gr [212.205.244.186]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5EGwoxa028569; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:58:52 +0300 (EEST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (hades [127.0.0.1]) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5EGwnFq010358; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:58:49 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5EDav5A009632; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:36:57 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:36:57 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira Cc: Garance A Drosihn , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org, msmith@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adding SO_NOSIGPIPE to -STABLE/-CURRENT Message-ID: <20020614133656.GB9021@hades.hell.gr> References: <20020614022304.94570.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> <20020614054920.1254.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020614054920.1254.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2002-06-14 02:48 -0300, Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira wrote: > Darwin call it SOF_NOSIGPIPE because they use it as socket > flag as opposed to a socket option such as either SO_DONTTRUNC or > SO_WANTMORE. > > Well, Linux has it as a socket option, it looks okay > as a socket option so the name begins with SO_. SO_NOSIGPIPE > because it describes well its use as it does in Darwin. > > However, that's my opinion. I am all open to suggestions. The example you mentioned above (threaded programs that want to disable the signal for some of the threads, but not all of them) can probably be implemented in userland with: void sigpipe_handler (int signo) { if (we are a thread that needs sigpipe) { do something; } } One might argue that an option like SO_NOSIGPIPE will be faster and save all the threads from checking the same thing though, and I will agree with that. If you give a name to this option though, please don't make its use depend on a 'double negative'. It would be a lot better to have this option enabled by default, and call it SO_SIGPIPE. Then you don't have to "disable a NO_FOO" option, to "enable FOO". The only option that uses a similar negative meaning right now is SO_DONTROUTE, while all the rest are of the style "set SO_FOO to enable behavior bar". - Giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 10: 1:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EC7B37B407 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5EGxtM3003932; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:59:55 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5EGxtIB003930; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:59:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:59:55 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? Message-ID: <20020614095954.B2143@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <3D084A91.FFD1B47@mindspring.com> <20020613004013.K2539-100000@master.gorean.org> <20020614.004200.88817430.imp@village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="O5XBE6gyVG5Rl6Rj" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020614.004200.88817430.imp@village.org>; from imp@village.org on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 12:42:00AM -0600 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) on odin.ac.hmc.edu Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --O5XBE6gyVG5Rl6Rj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 12:42:00AM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > I've been keeping an eye on the xtem stuff. In the past that's been > sufficient to keep something in the tree. It has been a while since > I've looked at the kernel parts of things, but I think they still > compile. The tw driver still compiles and seems to work, although the > hardware is getting hard to come by. Any plans to convert tw to not require COMPAT_ISA_DRIVER? -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --O5XBE6gyVG5Rl6Rj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9CiEKXY6L6fI4GtQRAkjrAJwJaquRZnzG9iw+S7GLPGuJn8rRCQCgjqep CiU4TId0LdiUpUb2XptyHvs= =PCKW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --O5XBE6gyVG5Rl6Rj-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 10:54:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E0D37B405 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 10:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5EHsdY17569; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:54:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5EHsbG50210; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:54:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020614.115430.84980079.imp@village.org> To: brooks@one-eyed-alien.net Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RFC: remove xten from the base system? From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20020614095954.B2143@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <20020613004013.K2539-100000@master.gorean.org> <20020614.004200.88817430.imp@village.org> <20020614095954.B2143@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <20020614095954.B2143@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Brooks Davis writes: : On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 12:42:00AM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > I've been keeping an eye on the xtem stuff. In the past that's been : > sufficient to keep something in the tree. It has been a while since : > I've looked at the kernel parts of things, but I think they still : > compile. The tw driver still compiles and seems to work, although the : > hardware is getting hard to come by. : : Any plans to convert tw to not require COMPAT_ISA_DRIVER? Eventually. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 13:24:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.icir.org (iguana.icir.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B4DE37B413 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.icir.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g5EKOI904159; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:24:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:24:18 -0700 From: "'Luigi Rizzo'" To: Trish Lynch Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available Message-ID: <20020614132418.A3981@iguana.icir.org> References: <20020613171319.D93980@iguana.icir.org> <20020614115325.L461-100000@femme.listmistress.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020614115325.L461-100000@femme.listmistress.org>; from trish@bsdunix.net on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 11:58:23AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 11:58:23AM -0400, Trish Lynch wrote: ... > Did something change with the syntax of divert rules? yeah, a misused a variable in ipfw.c ... have fixed it, thanks. In the meantime you can use ipfw add divert natd ip from any to any via fxp1 (i just tested it, it works) cheers luigi > ipfw add divert 8668 from any to any via fxp1 > > returns an error, "Illegal divert/tee port" > > of course this makes it difficult to use natd with it :) > > (how I built: I built world and a kernel with old ipfw, then rebooted, > backed up /sbin/ipfw and the /boot/kernel directories, then backed up > /include/netinet/ip_fw.h and /include/netinet/ip_dummynet.h and replaced > them with your versions, and rebuilt ipfw and the kernel with the new > code, did I miss something?) > > -Trish > > -- > Trish Lynch trish@bsdunix.net > FreeBSD The Power to Serve > Ecartis Core Team trish@listmistress.org > http://www.freebsd.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 15:10:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from femme.listmistress.org (bgp01560565bgs.gambrl01.md.comcast.net [68.50.32.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162A537B410 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femme.listmistress.org (trish@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g5EMACUS000627; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by femme.listmistress.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g5EMA4CU000621; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: femme.listmistress.org: trish owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Trish Lynch X-X-Sender: To: "'Luigi Rizzo'" Cc: Trish Lynch , Subject: Re: ipfw rewrite - new snapshot available In-Reply-To: <20020614132418.A3981@iguana.icir.org> Message-ID: <20020614180815.K455-100000@femme.listmistress.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, 'Luigi Rizzo' wrote: > On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 11:58:23AM -0400, Trish Lynch wrote: > ... > > Did something change with the syntax of divert rules? > > yeah, a misused a variable in ipfw.c ... have fixed it, thanks. > In the meantime you can use > > ipfw add divert natd ip from any to any via fxp1 > > (i just tested it, it works) > > cheers > luigi > So far so good, I'm going to work on testing this this week. dummynet works, divert works :) -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish@bsdunix.net FreeBSD The Power to Serve Ecartis Core Team trish@listmistress.org http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Fri Jun 14 15:11:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3E837B40E; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0043.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.43] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17IzHu-00066Z-00; Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:11:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3D0A69DE.F2214A69@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:10:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira , Garance A Drosihn , FreeBSD-arch@FreeBSD.org, msmith@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adding SO_NOSIGPIPE to -STABLE/-CURRENT References: <20020614022304.94570.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> <20020614054920.1254.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> <20020614133656.GB9021@hades.hell.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2002-06-14 02:48 -0300, Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira wrote: > > Darwin call it SOF_NOSIGPIPE because they use it as socket > > flag as opposed to a socket option such as either SO_DONTTRUNC or > > SO_WANTMORE. > > > > Well, Linux has it as a socket option, it looks okay > > as a socket option so the name begins with SO_. SO_NOSIGPIPE > > because it describes well its use as it does in Darwin. > > > > However, that's my opinion. I am all open to suggestions. > > The example you mentioned above (threaded programs that want to > disable the signal for some of the threads, but not all of them) can > probably be implemented in userland with: [ ... ] Signal handling in threaded programs is a pain. Ideally, you would want signals to be queued (i.e. events, rather than persistent conditions), and you would want them to be delivered contextually, only to threads that are interested in them. This SO_SIGPIPE discussion seems bent on trying to make the signal facility more able than it is, when in fact signals were (and are) a bad idea in the first place. How will this option work with regards to individual threads? If an individual thread sets this option on an fd, does it set it on the fd for all threads, or only for the calling thread? Why are you getting SIGPIPE in the first place, rather than some other indicator? Isn't it because you are using the wrong system call to send data down a socket? Frankly, the signal system is starting to feel like the threads used by the Lilliputions to tie down Gulliver so that he could not move. Adding more threads is probably not the right answer. If you are going to provide this facility, at *least* make it general, and not socket specific. Make it an fcntl, not a setsockopt. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 8:18:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from arcor.de (ACB1BCC7.ipt.aol.com [172.177.188.199]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C3FED37B416 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 08:17:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "todschick38259@arcor.de" To: Subject: Entschuldigen Sie bitte die Störung! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 17:18:10 +0200 Reply-To: "todschick38259@arcor.de" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020615151747.C3FED37B416@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Entschuldigen Sie bitte die Störung! Mir ist etwas zu Ohren gekommen. Eine relativ aussergewöhnliche Gerüchteküche, aus der man mir ein schwerverdauliches Süppchen vorgesetzt hat, ist der Grund meiner Mail. Unappetitlich ist gar kein Ausdruck! Ist es möglich auf funktechnischem Wege(in welchen Frequenzbereichen?) jemanden zu beeinflussen oder zu manipulieren? Oder sogar zu schikanieren und terrorisieren? Unter dem Motto:"Einen am Sender?Nich ganz alleine? Kleine Mannim Ohr?Falsche Wellenlänge?Bohnen in den Ohren? Auf den Zahn gefühlt(Amalgam)?Mal unverbindlich reinhören? Der Pullacher Wanzentanz? Ist das Spinnerei?Das geht doch gar nicht,oder? Und wenn wie sieht das ethisch moralisch aus? Zur technischen Seite der Sache gibt es zwar Berichte und Webseiten: Totalitaer,de - Die Waffe gegen die Kritik http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/Tempelhof/ http://jya.com/haarp.htm http://www.zeitenschrift.at/magazin/zs_24_15/1_mikrowaffen.htm http://www.bse-plus.de/d/doc/lbrief/lbmincontr.htm http://home.nexgo.de/kraven/bigb/big3.html http://w3.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/index.html http://cryptome.org/ http://www.parascope.com/ds/mkultra0.htm http://www.trufax.org/menu/mind.html http://www.trufax.org/menu/elect.html http://mindcontrolforum.com/ http://www.trufax.org/menu/elect.html usw. usw. usw. ,aber,das kann doch nicht sein,das soetwas gemacht wird,oder? Eine Menschenrechtsverletzung sonder gleichen!?! Ist es möglich,durch Präparation,der Ohren und im Zusammenspiel mit eventuell vorhandenem Zahnersatz? Mit relativ einfacher Funktechnik?? In diesem Land?Hier und heute??? Unter welchen Motiven? Wo ist eigentlich die Abteilung 5 des BND und des Verfassungsschutzes? Kann es sein,daß es Leute gibt,die dem BND/Verfassungsschutz,auf funktechnischem Wege permanent einen Situationsbericht abliefern,ohne es selbst zu merken,im Kindesalter machbar gemacht?? Werden durch solche inoffiziellen Mitarbeiter,beim BND und Verfassungsschutz,nach Stasimanier, Informationen von und über,rein theoretisch, jeden Bundesbürger,gesammelt? Gibt es dann noch ein Recht auf Privatsphere? Wer kontrolliert eigentlich den BND,MAD und Verfassungsschutz auf Unterwanderung??? In der Mail geht es mir eigentlich um die Frage,ob es kriminellen Elementen, aus dem Motiv der Bereicherung,oder Gruppierungen aus ideologischen Motiven, möglich ist ,sich Wissen und Technik anzueignen,die zu anderen Zeiten, aus anderen Motiven(Westfernsehen?),entwickelt wurde. Und stellt der technische Wissensstand, der der Allgemeinheit bekannt ist wirklich das Ende der Fahnenstange dar? Ist es denn nicht kriminellen Elementen genauso möglich, ich sage das jetzt mal verharmlost und verniedlichend, einzelne Personen oder Gruppen mit relativ einfachen Mitteln, aus welchen Motiven auch immer, auszuspionieren? Und stellt diese "Ausspioniererei" nicht einen erheblichen Eingriff in die Privatsphäre dar? Ist es möglich einzelne Personen oder Gruppen, eine Akzeptans einer gewissen Öffentlichkeit(suggeriert?), die z.B. mit Hilfe von Internetseiten,wie zum Beispiel dem "Pranger"geschaffen werden könnte, mal vorausgestzt,zu terroriesieren und oder zu schikanieren, und das in aller (suggerierten)Öffentlichkeit?Haben die Leute die da am Pranger, oder auf irgendeiner anderen Seite verunglimpft,oder gar Verleumdet werden, eigentlich eine Chance zur Gegenöffentlichkeit?Ist das nicht Rufmord? Vor einigen Jahren bin ich per Zufall auf die Seite "Der Pranger" gestoßen, damals lief das noch nicht unter dem Deckmantel der Partnervermittlung. Können sich einzelne Personen,oder Interessengemeinschaften, aus reinem Selbstzweck,solcher Seiten bedienen, um unter dem Deckmantel einer fragwürdigen Zivilkourage, durch anzetteln irgendwelcher Hetzkampagnen,eigene, ganz persöhnliche Interessen durchsetzen? Können solche Seiten zur Koordination von kriminellen machenschaften dienen? Die Frage,ist es Möglichkeit oder Unmöglichkeit,technisch und gesellschaftlich, einzelne Personen,oder auch Gruppierungen,aus einer kriminellen/ideologischen Energei heraus,zu manipulieren oder zu beeinflussen,terrorisieren oder zu schickanieren,und zwar gezielt. Zielgruppenmanipulation durch Massenmedien sind alltägliche Manipulation, der mansich,mehr oder weniger,entziehen kann. Wird das Recht auf Privatsphäre,schleichend,tiefenpsychologisch, durch Sendungen,wie,zum Beispiel "Big brother",untergraben? Sollte bei einem der Angemailten ein gewisser Wissensstand zum Thema vorhanden sein, wäre ich über Hinweise zum Thema froh. Auf der Suche nach Antworten auf meine Fragen maile ich verschiedene Adressen aus dem Internet an, und hoffe aufkonstruktive Antworten und Kritiken. Über einen Besuch auf der Seite würde ich mich freuen. Sollten Sie von mir mehrfach angeschrieben worden sein,so bitte ich Sie,mir dies zu entschuldigen, das war nicht beabsichtigt. Der Grund für meine Anonymität ist die Tatsache, daß bei derlei Fragenstellerei, verständlicherweise,schnell der Ruf nach der Psychatrie laut wird. Was auch Methode hat(ist). Sollten Sie die Mail als Belästigung empfinden, möchte ich mich hiermit dafür entschuldigen! Big brother is watching you? Excuse please the disturbance! Me something came to ears. A relatively unusual rumor kitchen, from which one put forward to me a heavydigestible soup, is the reason of my Mail. Unappetizing is no printout! Is it possible on radio Wege(in for which frequency ranges?) to influence or manipulate someone? Terrorize or to even chicane and? Under the Motto:"Einen at the Sender?Nich quite alone? Small Mannim Ohr?Fal Wellenlaenge?Bohnen in the ears? On the tooth clean-hear gefuehlt(Amalgam)?Mal witthout obligation? The Pullacher bug wanzentanz? Isn't the Spinnerei?Das goes nevertheless at all, or? And if as looks ethicalally morally? For the technical page of the thing there is to report and web page: Totalitaer,de - Die Waffe gegen die Kritik http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/Tempelhof/ http://jya.com/haarp.htm http://www.zeitenschrift.at/magazin/zs_24_15/1_mikrowaffen.htm http://www.bse-plus.de/d/doc/lbrief/lbmincontr.htm http://home.nexgo.de/kraven/bigb/big3.html http://w3.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/index.html http://cryptome.org/ http://www.parascope.com/ds/mkultra0.htm http://www.trufax.org/menu/mind.html http://www.trufax.org/menu/elect.html http://mindcontrolforum.com/ http://www.trufax.org/menu/elect.html usw. usw. usw. but, that cannot be nevertheless, which is made soetwas, or? A violation of human rights resemble special!?! Is it possible, by preparation, the ears and in interaction with possibly available artificial dentures? With relatively simple radio engineering?? In this Land?Hier and today??? Under which motives? Where is the department actually 5 of the BND and the protection of the constitution? Can it be that there are people, which deliver the Federal Intelligence Service/protection of the constitution, on radio way permanently a situation report, without noticing it, in the infancy feasiblly made? By such unofficial coworkers, with the BND and protection of the constitution, after Stasimanier, is information collected of and over,purely theoretically, each Federal citizen? Is there then still another right to Privatsphere? Who actually checks the BND, WAD and protection of the constitution for infiltration??? Into the Mail actually concerns it to me the question whether it criminal items, from which motive of enriching, or groupings from ideological motives is possible, to acquire itself knowledge and technique which were developed at other times, from other Motiven(Westfernsehen?).And does the technical knowledge status place, to that the public admits is really the end of the flag bar? Is it not to criminal items just as possible, I legend that now times played down and does nice-end, individual persons or groups with relatively simple means, to spy from whatever motives always? And doesn't this " Ausspioniererei " represent a substantial intervention into the privatsphaere? It is possible individual persons or groups, one acceptance to of a certain Oeffentlichkeit(suggeriert?), e.g. by Internet pages, how for example the " Pranger"geschaffen could become, times vorausgestzt, to terroriesieren and or chicane, and in everything (the people suggerierten)Oeffentlichkeit?Haben there at the Pranger, or on any other page to be reviled, or slandered, actually a chance to the Gegenoeffentlichkeit?Ist that not character assassination? Some years ago I am by coincidence the page " the Pranger " encountered, at that time ran not yet under the cover of the partner switching.Itself can individual persons, or communities of interests, from pure self purpose, such pages to serve, over under the cover of a doubtful Zivilkourage, through plot any rushing campaigns, own, quite persoehnliche interests to intersperse? Can such pages serve for the co-ordination of criminal machinations? The question, is it possibility or impossibility, technically and socially, individual persons, or also groupings of manipulating or of influencing from an criminal/ideological Energei, terrorizes or to schickanieren, directed.Target group manipulation by mass media are everyday manipulation, from which, more or less, can extract itself. Does the right to privatsphaere, creeping, by transmissions become deep psychological, how, for example " Big undermine brother"? If the Angemailten should be available a certain knowledge status to the topic with one, I would be glad over notes to the topic On the search for responses to my questions maile I different addresses from the Internet on, and hope up-constructional responses and criticisms.Over an attendance on the page wuerde I are pleased.If you should have been written down by me several times, then please I you to excuse me this that was not intended. The reason for my anonymity is the fact that with such Fragenstellerei, understandably, fast after the call the Psychatrie loud becomes. Which also method hat(ist). If you should feel the Mail as annoyance, I would like to apologize hereby for it! Big is watching you? Veuillez excuser le dérangement! Moi quelque chose concernant des oreilles est venu. Une cuisine de bruit relativement inhabituelle, dont on m'a placé un Sueppchen schwerverdauliches devant, est la raison de mes Mail.Aucune expression n'est peu appétissante! Il est possible sur un Wege(in funktechnischem pour quelles réponses fréquentielles?) quelqu'un influencer ou manipuler? Ou même schikanieren et terroriser? Sous le Motto:"Einen au Sender?Nich tout à fait seulement? Petits Mannim Ohr?Falsche Wellenlaenge?Bohnen dans les oreilles? Sur la dent gefuehlt(Amalgam)?Mal non contraignant reinhoeren? Le Pullacher Wanzentanz? Le Spinnerei?Das n'est-il quand même pas du tout va, ou? Et si comme cela paraît éthiquement moralement? Au côté technique de la chose, il y a certes des rapports et des Webseiten: Totalitaer,de - Die Waffe gegen die Kritik http://www.fosar-bludorf.com/Tempelhof/ http://jya.com/haarp.htm http://www.zeitenschrift.at/magazin/zs_24_15/1_mikrowaffen.htm http://www.bse-plus.de/d/doc/lbrief/lbmincontr.htm http://home.nexgo.de/kraven/bigb/big3.html http://w3.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/index.html http://cryptome.org/ http://www.parascope.com/ds/mkultra0.htm http://www.trufax.org/menu/mind.html http://www.trufax.org/menu/elect.html http://mindcontrolforum.com/ http://www.trufax.org/menu/elect.html usw. usw. usw. toutefois qui ne peut quand même pas être qui on fait soetwas, ou? Une violation des droits de l'homme séparer ressembler!?! Il est possible, par la préparation, des oreilles et dans l'effet avec la prothèse dentaire éventuellement existante? Avec la technique de radio relativement simple?? Dans ce Land?Hier et aujourd'hui Sous quels motifs? Où le département est-il en réalité 5 du BND et de la protection d'constitution? peut il être qu'il y a les personnes qui livrent en permanence le BND/Verfassungsschutz, de manière funktechnischem un rapport de situation, sans le remarquer le -même , dans l'enfance rendu possible?? Par de tels collaborateurs officieux, avec le BND et la protection d'constitution, après manière, des informations sont-elles rassemblées et plus de, purement théoriquement, chaque citoyen allemand? Il y a alors encore un droit à des Privatsphere? Qui contrôle en réalité le BND, mad et protection d'constitution sur une infiltration??? Il s'agit en réalité dans le Mail me la question de savoir si lui éléments criminels, dont le motif de l'enrichissement, ou de groupements des motifs idéologiques, possible de s'acquérir le savoir et la technique qui à d'autres temps, est autre MotivenEt place-t-il le savoir technique dont le public vraiment la fin la barre de drapeau a connaissance ? Il n'est pas donc exactement la même chose possible pour des éléments criminels, moi cela maintenant fois verharmlost et minimisant une légende, personnes ou groupes particuliers avec des moyens relativement simples, de quels motifs aussi toujours, auszuspionieren?(Westfernsehen?), a été développé. Et ce "Ausspioniererei" ne représente-t-il pas une intervention considérable dans la vie privée? Il est possible personnes ou groupes particuliers, pour certain Oeffentlichkeit(suggeriert?), celui p. ex. à l'aide des côtés Internet, comme par exemple "le Pranger"geschaffen pourrait, fois vorausgestzt schikanieren terroriesieren et ou , et qui toute (suggerierten)Oeffentlichkeit?Haben les personnes ceux là, ou d'un autre côté verunglimpft, ou on ne pas calomnie, en réalité une chance au Gegenoeffentlichkeit?Ist qui meurtre d'appel? Il y a quelques années, je ne suis pas encore par hasard sur le côté "celui" poussé, fonctionnais alors cela sous la couche de pont de l'entremise partenaire. Des personnes particulières, ou des communautés d'intérêts le peuventelles, d'un autobut pur, de tels côtés servent, sous la couche de pont d'un Zivilkourage douteux, tracent plus de des campagnes de précipitation, propres intérêts tout à fait persoehnliche entremêlent? De tels côtés peuvent-ils servir à la coordination des manoeuvres criminelles? Question, est lui possibilité ou impossibilité de manipuler ou d'influencer techniquement et socialement, particulière personnes, ou aussi groupements, criminelle/ponctuel idéologique Energei dehors, , terroriser ou schickanieren, et ce.Une manipulation de groupe cible par des masse-médias être la manipulation quotidienne qui peut extraire mansich, plus ou moins. Le droit à la vie privée est-il miné, ramment, tiefenpsychologisch, par des envois, comme, par exemple "des Big brother"? Avec un les Angemailten si un certain savoir devait exister sur le thème, je serais heureux sur des indications sur le thème.Sur la recherche des réponses à mes questions je différentes adresses maile d'Internet dessus, et espère réponses et critiques aufkonstruktive. Sur une visite du côté http://hometown.aol.de/reinerhohn38259/homepage/index.html> je me réjouirais. Si vous deviez avoir été écrit à différentes reprises par moi, je vous demande de m'excuser cela qui n'était pas envisagé. La raison de mon anonymat est le fait qu'avec telle des Fragenstellerei, l'appel devient ce qui est bien compréhensible, rapidement bruyant après le Psychatrie. Ce que la méthode a également (ist). Si vous deviez ressentir les Mail comme un ennui, je voudrais m'excuser par ceci pour cela! Big brother is watching you? Könnte mir jemand bei der korrekten Überstzung helfen? Could someone help me with the correct translation? Quelqu'un pourrait-il m'aider lors du Ueberstzung correct? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 12:11: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from hda.hda.com (host65.hda.com [63.104.68.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983C537B41C; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g5FJCc011789; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:12:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.com) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:12:37 -0400 From: Peter Dufault To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" Cc: Juli Mallett , arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Source Code Control System Message-ID: <20020615151237.A11711@hda.hda.com> References: <20020612155452.A57120@FreeBSD.ORG> <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020612231407.GH44106@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from grog@FreeBSD.ORG on Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 08:44:07AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 08:44:07AM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > My feeling is that SCCS is only of historical interest. It would be > nice to be able to access old SCCS files, but I can't imagine that > many people would want to use it for new work. Boy, do I wish this were the case. I'm behind on mail, I browsed the responses to this thread, and I'm of at least two minds on this one: First mind: Keep it a solid port to encourage SCCS fading away. Those forced to use it will find it. Second mind: If any reputable standard expects it, and if Solaris includes it, pull it in. I have one client purchasing a fair number of embedded Solaris systems per year who will not give up SCCS, and for that client the inclusion of SCCS in a standard distribution (as I guess it is in Solaris) is a big plus. They've been shipping systems for X+ years, and all customer modified files have been automatically under SCCS control. For them SCCS is an expected part of the system, and the fact that it is available as a port and not in the base system is unnerving. Don't ask why leaving out a compiler isn't a concern. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Fail-Safe systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 12:12:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0979A37B41C for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5FJBXY24328 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:11:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5FJBXG58254 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:11:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020615.131103.106033411.imp@village.org> To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Idea: New file called CONTRIB From: "M. Warner Losh" X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK. There are a number of programs in the tree that people outside of the project are trying to keep in sync. They typically are on src/contrib or src/sys/contrib. However, there are a few that are in the main tree, especially KAME related network config stuff (and others). I'm thinking that if there's someone that wants to be notified/consulted on the changes so as to better sync an external repository, then maybe having a file called CONTRIB in these directories might not be a bad idea. Note: This isn't a maintainer, per se, but rather an indication that the code (eg, .c and .h files) shouldn't be committed to w/o some thought. Comments, in three bikesheds or less :-) Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 12:15:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-relay1.yahoo.com (mail-relay1.yahoo.com [216.145.48.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA7E737B40B; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FreeBSD.org (12-234-90-219.client.attbi.com [12.234.90.219]) by mail-relay1.yahoo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974D78B600; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D0B9246.75D2AA45@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:15:18 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: Brian Somers , Gordon Tetlow , arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: MFC of rcNG? References: <200206132230.g5DMU3e03500@freefall.freebsd.org> <20020614004539.7916f477.brian@Awfulhak.org> <20020614082455.U39690@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Moved to -arch, since the cvs-* lists have suffered enough recently.] Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 12:45:39AM +0100, Brian Somers wrote: > > > Add the final bits that allow the use of rc.d. Note that you can toggle > > > between rc.d and the classic boot scripts based on the rcng variable in > > > your rc.conf. Defaults to classic boot scripts. > > > > How long do you plan on keeping this variable around ? > > And is this something that can be MFC'd? I realise it's quite a > fundamental change to the startup system, but if it made it in to 4.7 as > an alternative (so the default remains the same) it would give people > the chance to try it out without needing to run -current. It also makes > it more likely to be covered in the Handbook. . . I vigorously oppose making it the default in 4.x at any time... we already did one major overhaul of /etc/rc* in RELENG_4, and I don't think we should put them through that again. However, if we can get it polished sufficiently I wouldn't object necessarily to having it in there as an option; BUT, I seriously doubt it'd get to that point in time to be useful. Doug -- "We have known freedom's price. We have shown freedom's power. And in this great conflict, ... we will see freedom's victory." - George W. Bush, President of the United States State of the Union, January 28, 2002 Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 12:34:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mail-relay1.yahoo.com (mail-relay1.yahoo.com [216.145.48.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70CEC37B413 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FreeBSD.org (12-234-90-219.client.attbi.com [12.234.90.219]) by mail-relay1.yahoo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1128B5BF; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D0B96CD.CA45F33F@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:34:37 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: arch@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Idea: New file called CONTRIB References: <20020615.131103.106033411.imp@village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "M. Warner Losh" wrote: > > OK. There are a number of programs in the tree that people outside of > the project are trying to keep in sync. They typically are on > src/contrib or src/sys/contrib. However, there are a few that are in > the main tree, especially KAME related network config stuff (and > others). I'm thinking that if there's someone that wants to be > notified/consulted on the changes so as to better sync an external > repository, then maybe having a file called CONTRIB in these > directories might not be a bad idea. > > Note: This isn't a maintainer, per se, but rather an indication that > the code (eg, .c and .h files) shouldn't be committed to w/o some > thought. This sounds like a back door out of the MAINTAINER controversy. :) We already have the notion of, "I'd like to know if you plan to make changes to this file" in the current /usr/src/MAINTAINERS, so rather than further muddy the water I'd like to give that a few more months to see if it works. One of the problems of this medium is that people think because we have (relatively) instant communication, we should have instant solutions to problems as well. That's hardly ever true, especially where humans are concerned. Doug To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 13:24: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC7A37B414; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5FKNvY24652; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:23:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5FKNuG58679; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:23:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020615.142321.38689858.imp@village.org> To: DougB@FreeBSD.org Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Idea: New file called CONTRIB From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <3D0B96CD.CA45F33F@FreeBSD.org> References: <20020615.131103.106033411.imp@village.org> <3D0B96CD.CA45F33F@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <3D0B96CD.CA45F33F@FreeBSD.org> Doug Barton writes: : "M. Warner Losh" wrote: : > : > OK. There are a number of programs in the tree that people outside of : > the project are trying to keep in sync. They typically are on : > src/contrib or src/sys/contrib. However, there are a few that are in : > the main tree, especially KAME related network config stuff (and : > others). I'm thinking that if there's someone that wants to be : > notified/consulted on the changes so as to better sync an external : > repository, then maybe having a file called CONTRIB in these : > directories might not be a bad idea. : > : > Note: This isn't a maintainer, per se, but rather an indication that : > the code (eg, .c and .h files) shouldn't be committed to w/o some : > thought. : : This sounds like a back door out of the MAINTAINER controversy. :) We : already have the notion of, "I'd like to know if you plan to make : changes to this file" in the current /usr/src/MAINTAINERS, so rather : than further muddy the water I'd like to give that a few more months to : see if it works. This is different than a Maintainer. This is a bigger sign that says "well, in an ideal world, this would be in contrib, but for whatever reason it isn't. Treat it like contrib however. Thanks." : One of the problems of this medium is that people think because we have : (relatively) instant communication, we should have instant solutions to : problems as well. That's hardly ever true, especially where humans are : concerned. This does not follow. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 13:38: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371B737B403; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0289.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.34] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17JKIr-00031a-00; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:37:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3D0BA570.D7F58CAD@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:37:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: DougB@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Idea: New file called CONTRIB References: <20020615.131103.106033411.imp@village.org> <3D0B96CD.CA45F33F@FreeBSD.org> <20020615.142321.38689858.imp@village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "M. Warner Losh" wrote: > This is different than a Maintainer. This is a bigger sign that says > "well, in an ideal world, this would be in contrib, but for whatever > reason it isn't. "And I'm too lazy to move it there." > Treat it like contrib however. Thanks." This is a lot like saying "here is the right answer, just in case you are interested in right answers". To me, it looks like a method of condoning people arguing in the source repository about whether or not something belongs in contrib. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 14:21:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB7837B416; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g5FLLUY24922; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5FLLSG58980; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:20:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20020615.152046.76963466.imp@village.org> To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: DougB@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Idea: New file called CONTRIB From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <3D0BA570.D7F58CAD@mindspring.com> References: <3D0B96CD.CA45F33F@FreeBSD.org> <20020615.142321.38689858.imp@village.org> <3D0BA570.D7F58CAD@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <3D0BA570.D7F58CAD@mindspring.com> Terry Lambert writes: : "M. Warner Losh" wrote: : > This is different than a Maintainer. This is a bigger sign that says : > "well, in an ideal world, this would be in contrib, but for whatever : > reason it isn't. : : "And I'm too lazy to move it there." BS Terry. I resent that remark. : > Treat it like contrib however. Thanks." : : This is a lot like saying "here is the right answer, just in case : you are interested in right answers". : : To me, it looks like a method of condoning people arguing in the : source repository about whether or not something belongs in contrib. Do you have something useful to contribute, or just carping? The reason for it is to make sure that we properly document what is grandfathered so people know. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 15:11:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8A837B407; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool0040.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.40] helo=mindspring.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17JLlY-0005uc-00; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:11:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3D0BBB67.FAF083B6@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 15:10:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" Cc: DougB@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Idea: New file called CONTRIB References: <3D0B96CD.CA45F33F@FreeBSD.org> <20020615.142321.38689858.imp@village.org> <3D0BA570.D7F58CAD@mindspring.com> <20020615.152046.76963466.imp@village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "M. Warner Losh" wrote: > Do you have something useful to contribute, or just carping? The > reason for it is to make sure that we properly document what is > grandfathered so people know. To me, it looks like an attempt at a "back door", just like Doug Barton said in his posting. I don't see a reason for "CONTRIB". Either it's in /contrib, or it's not. If it's not, then adding a "CONTRIB" file is nothing more than an editorial comment. Under what circumstances would it be useful, when MAINTAINERS would not? Either it's a comment on the validity of "MAINTAINERS" ("we need CONTRIB because people ignore MAINTAINERS") or it's a opinion on people not letting code be moved over to /contrib ("this code should be in /contrib, but it's not because it's politically impossible for me to move it over there"). You said in response to Doug: | This is different than a Maintainer. This is a bigger sign that says | "well, in an ideal world, this would be in contrib, but for whatever | reason it isn't. Treat it like contrib however. Thanks." You don't explain why a bigger sign is necessary. If it's not movable, then "whatever reason" could be "because it's not contributed code". If it's just that the code should be moved, then it should be discussed, and either moved (a "CONTRIB" file is not necessary), or it should be decided that it *will not* be moved (a "CONTRIB" file is not necessary). The only thing I get out of "treat it like contrib" is that someone wants to assert strong ownership over the code. The strong ownership over /contrib code is an artifact of the synchronization issue. If there isn't a synchronization issue, then you're just asserting ownership; if there is an issue, then the code should be moved; lots of code has been moved in the past. It seems to me that what you *really* want is an "OWNER" file, from the semantics you are implying with your argument. If you are asking for a mechanism to assert ownership over code, then by all means, be up front: ask for that. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-arch Sat Jun 15 21:56:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from magic.adaptec.com (magic.adaptec.com [208.236.45.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF8D37B41D for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from redfish.adaptec.com (redfish.adaptec.com [162.62.50.11]) by magic.adaptec.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g5G4uov09241 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from btc.btc.adaptec.com (btc.btc.adaptec.com [10.100.0.52]) by redfish.adaptec.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18278 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hollin.btc.adaptec.com (hollin [10.100.253.56]) by btc.btc.adaptec.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10246 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hollin.btc.adaptec.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hollin.btc.adaptec.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5G4rbrP038332 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:53:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@hollin.btc.adaptec.com) Received: (from scottl@localhost) by hollin.btc.adaptec.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g5G4rbfZ038331 for arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:53:37 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:53:37 -0600 From: Scott Long To: arch@freebsd.org Subject: ACPI Daemon Message-ID: <20020616045337.GA38313@hollin.btc.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG All, I'm soliciting input on bike shed colors and building materials for an idea I had concerning ACPI. I'd like to build an ACPI Daemon that handles things like taking corrective actions for battery and temperature problems. The daemon would run from rc, and be controlled by a config file. Since ACPI is only in 5-CURRENT, the daemon would only apply to 5-CURRENT. APM would not be supported since it is deprecated in favor of ACPI, and it does not give the level of reporting and actions that ACPI provides. The daemon would provide the following services: Temperature monitoring: The daemon could be configured to either accept or override the default thermal settings provided in the AML. Corrective actions would include CPU throttling, system suspend/ hibernate/shutdown, and possible fan control. Battery monitoring: The daemon would monitor the battery and AC power line state. Corrective actions would include CPU throttling and system suspend/hibernate/shutdown. The AC power line monitor that currently exists in the ACPI driver would be removed (though the AC power line device would remain). Warnings could be reported to the syslog. Button management: The daemon config file could be used to specify the function of the various ACPI controlled switches (power/lid/ sleep/etc). The goal of this is to centralize the management of ACPI to the daemon and config file. The config file would be in standard key=value format. Comments? Scott To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-arch" in the body of the message