From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 15 10: 5:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A929937B400 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from studnet.sk (kripel.unitra.sk [193.87.12.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 758A743E3B for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rado@kripel.studnet.sk) Received: from kripel.studnet.sk (rado@localhost [IPv6:::1]) by studnet.sk (8.12.5/angel's version) with ESMTP id g8FH57MJ062013 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:05:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from rado@localhost) by kripel.studnet.sk (8.12.5/8.12.3/Submit) id g8FH57n6061960 for chat@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:05:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:05:07 +0200 From: Radko Keves To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: which is the best mail client ? Message-ID: <20020915170507.GA58329@studnet.sk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi all Sat, Sep 14, 2002 i receive this mail: ___________________________________________________________________ I got a really stupid question. Howd you get that into your email? 19:04 up 4 days, 4:54, 21 users, load averages: 0,00 0,00 0,00 ___________________________________________________________________ (signature i think) it was sent from: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 so i suppose that's not right way few years i use pine with pico (sometimes neomail) but now i use mutt with vim oit's simply and stability but if someone thing that there is something better please replay it to me of course for me is not good use web mail clients thank and bye -- 18:51 up 6 days, 4:41, 12 users, load averages: 0,00 0,01 0,00 -- FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #14: root@kripel:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/angel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Sep 15 16:18:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E574D37B400 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carl.svc.tds.net (carl.svc.tds.net [204.246.1.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BA0543E42 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kenwills@tds.net) Received: from zap.zaptillion.net ([66.188.113.165]) by carl.svc.tds.net with ESMTP id <20020915231927.GIO3710.carl@zap.zaptillion.net>; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:19:27 -0500 Received: by zap.zaptillion.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 15F9B226991; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:20:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:20:14 -0500 From: Ken Wills To: "Neal E. Westfall" Cc: Terry Lambert , Joshua Lee , dave@jetcafe.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why did evolution fail? Message-ID: <20020915232013.GA1669@zaptillion.net> References: <3D7A3376.A858DD79@mindspring.com> <20020907110109.T44831-100000@Tolstoy.home.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020907110109.T44831-100000@Tolstoy.home.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org +++ Neal E. Westfall [07/09/02 13:10 -0700]: > > > On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > "Neal E. Westfall" wrote: > > > > The scientific method never verifies, it only falsifies, so asking > > > > that something be empirically verified, whether it be the old theory > > > > of evolution, the current theory of puctuated equilibria, or that > > > > gravity is related to the curvature of space, is asking for the > > > > impossible. Science can only demonstrate the invalidity of ideas, > > > > not their validity. > > > > > > Okay, then lets stop pretending that creation is "unscientific" while > > > evolution is "scientific". Neither one of them can be falsified, so > > > either *both* of them are scientific, or neither of them are. You > > > can't have your cake and eat it too. If you claim an explanation > > > must also be "naturalistic", I charge you with providing a > > > justification for such arbitrariness. > > > > I guess we can keep on calling the currently accepted scientific > > theory "evolution", even though that's not the correct name for it. > > > > With that in mind, the methods you use judge one theory vs. another > > are: > > > > 1) Are the theories predictive? > > Evolution is not, as it relies on chance. Chance, by definition, > is unpredictable. Flip a coin. I predict it will be heads or tails. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 16 5: 4:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122EB37B4F5 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [63.86.88.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA56543E6A for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9FB477658; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840BB1DA1; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:06:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Rob Cc: "chat@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Windows as opposed to Other OS's In-Reply-To: <3D8279CD.56F0EE58@pythonemproject.com> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Rob wrote: :ps. Does anyone know how to make Linux-Netscape retain the scaled TTF :font that you specify. On my Dell 8200 with 1600x1200 I always have to :set the font scale to 18 before I use it. It will not retain my :settings. Thanx. That is something that you should be able to set in your .Xresources file. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 16 12:53: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A9B37B494 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp07.wxs.nl (smtp07.wxs.nl [195.121.6.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D2343E6E for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:53:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl) Received: from cybertron.kruijff ([213.10.151.186]) by smtp07.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H2JR8901.FDW; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:52:57 +0200 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:52:55 +0200 From: Alex X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: Alex X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <4417215744.20020916215255@dds.nl> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello/Beste , I was browsing trough a news directory and found this article. Does anybody has the story how it ended? Does anyone know if it happened again? http://slashdot.org/bsd/01/09/24/1432223.shtml > Søren Schmidt was browsing through the 2.4.10 linux kernel source > when he saw something that looked a bit familiar. Too familiar in > fact. Søren is the principle developer of FreeBSD's ATA drivers, > including FreeBSD's support for ATA RAID cards, and as he looked > through the linux/drivers/ide/ files the sense of deja vu was > overwhelming. Read on for more. > > "They just took my code and filed off the copyright" said Søren. > "This is clearest with the two header files hptraid.h and pdcraid.h. > Compare these with FreeBSD's ata-raid.h, and just look at the > similarities." And it's true that these two header files certainly > look like a chopped up copy of the FreeBSD header, after a quick > search-and-replace. "The reading of the RAID config from the disks > is their own code, but is clearly "inspired" from our code," said > Søren, "but that's encouraged by the license. It's the verbatim use > of the other code without retaining the copyright that's the > problem." A bit more than a -- Best regards/Met vriendelijke groet, Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Sep 16 22:51:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1084F37B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B33743E4A for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21234; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:51:25 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook is dangerous and makes your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:51:22 -0600 To: Alex , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <4417215744.20020916215255@dds.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:52 PM 9/16/2002, Alex wrote: >Hello/Beste , > >I was browsing trough a news directory and found this article. Does >anybody has the story how it ended? Does anyone know if it happened >again? > >http://slashdot.org/bsd/01/09/24/1432223.shtml It doubtless happens all the time. The GPL zealots are unwilling to admit that BSD code has any merit whatsoever, and so refuse to give credit or preserve the copyright notice or license in many cases. Yes, they're engaging in theft, but being unethical already (the GPL being an unethical attempt to destroy developers' livelihoods) they don't care. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 3:40:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D8637B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.seattleFenix.net (seattleFenix.net [216.39.145.247]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14FD343E4A for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roo@mail.seattleFenix.net) Received: (from roo@localhost) by mail.seattleFenix.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g8HAbLJ33617; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:37:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roo) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:37:21 -0700 From: Benjamin Krueger To: Brett Glass Cc: Alex , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Message-ID: <20020917033721.B27210@mail.seattleFenix.net> Reply-To: benjamin@seattleFenix.net References: <4417215744.20020916215255@dds.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 11:51:22PM -0600 X-PGP-Key: http://www.macguire.net/benjamin/public_key.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Brett Glass (brett@lariat.org) [020916 22:49]: > At 01:52 PM 9/16/2002, Alex wrote: > > >Hello/Beste , > > > >I was browsing trough a news directory and found this article. Does > >anybody has the story how it ended? Does anyone know if it happened > >again? > > > >http://slashdot.org/bsd/01/09/24/1432223.shtml > > It doubtless happens all the time. The GPL zealots are unwilling to > admit that BSD code has any merit whatsoever, and so refuse to give > credit or preserve the copyright notice or license in many cases. > Yes, they're engaging in theft, but being unethical already (the > GPL being an unethical attempt to destroy developers' livelihoods) > they don't care. > > --Brett Not that we're overgeneralizing, extremely biased, incredibly inaccurate, and just plain trolling or anything... Hey Brett, I think they have more info about the GPL Conspiracy on the CNET web boards. Why don't you go check it out? -- Benjamin Krueger "Everyone has wings, some folks just don't know what they're for" - B. Banzai ---------------------------------------------------------------- Send mail w/ subject 'send public key' or query for (0x251A4B18) Fingerprint = A642 F299 C1C1 C828 F186 A851 CFF0 7711 251A 4B18 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 3:41:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80A1837B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pobox.inspire.net.nz (pobox.inspire.net.nz [203.79.89.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6C843E4A for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bdh@inspire.net.nz) Received: from inspire.net.nz (ipnet-240.inspire.net.nz [203.79.88.240]) by pobox.inspire.net.nz (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g8HAkmZ17377; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:46:49 +1200 (NZST) Message-ID: <3D870678.1080004@inspire.net.nz> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:39:52 +1200 From: Bruce Harding User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0rc3) Gecko/20020523 X-Accept-Language: en-nz, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Alex , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > It doubtless happens all the time. The GPL zealots are unwilling to > admit that BSD code has any merit whatsoever, and so refuse to give > credit or preserve the copyright notice or license in many cases. > Yes, they're engaging in theft, but being unethical already (the > GPL being an unethical attempt to destroy developers' livelihoods) > they don't care. Isn't this like a year old, and it turned out to be just one guy who does this sort of thing frequently? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 4:38: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372D237B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 04:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.uninterruptible.net (ns1.uninterruptible.net [216.7.46.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7BD43E97 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 04:38:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Received: from Spaz.Catonic.NET (tnt6-216-180-4-121.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.4.121]) by mail.uninterruptible.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A1C5002E; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:37:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: by Spaz.Catonic.NET (Postfix, from userid 1002) id EBFE93355; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:37:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Spaz.Catonic.NET (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77A64C58; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:37:48 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:37:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby To: Bruce Harding Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <3D870678.1080004@inspire.net.nz> Message-ID: X-Mailer: !/bin/sh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Bruce Harding wrote: > Isn't this like a year old, and it turned out to be just one guy who > does this sort of thing frequently? Yes, and IIRC the BSD code was demonstration/reference code from a manufacturer. If they knew anything about law, would they be software developers? ;-) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 5:41:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E088237B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp06.wxs.nl (smtp06.wxs.nl [195.121.6.58]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B956243E65 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 05:41:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl) Received: from cybertron.kruijff ([213.10.151.186]) by smtp06.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H2L1XK02.684; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:41:44 +0200 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:41:35 +0200 From: Alex X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: Alex X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <178450748.20020917144135@dds.nl> To: Bruce Harding Cc: Brett Glass , Alex , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <3D870678.1080004@inspire.net.nz> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> <3D870678.1080004@inspire.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello/Beste Bruce, Tuesday, September 17, 2002, 12:39:52 PM, you wrote: BH> Brett Glass wrote: >> >> It doubtless happens all the time. The GPL zealots are unwilling to >> admit that BSD code has any merit whatsoever, and so refuse to give >> credit or preserve the copyright notice or license in many cases. >> Yes, they're engaging in theft, but being unethical already (the >> GPL being an unethical attempt to destroy developers' livelihoods) >> they don't care. BH> Isn't this like a year old, and it turned out to be just one guy who BH> does this sort of thing frequently? Yes it is a year old, but don't know the rest. -- Best regards/Met vriendelijke groet, Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 7:31:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9669937B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500E343E75 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:31:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0243.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.243] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17rJNg-0007lk-00; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:31:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3D873C71.3C83ADDD@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:30:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: benjamin@seattleFenix.net Cc: Brett Glass , Alex , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel References: <4417215744.20020916215255@dds.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> <20020917033721.B27210@mail.seattleFenix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Benjamin Krueger wrote: > * Brett Glass (brett@lariat.org) [020916 22:49]: > > >Hello/Beste , > > >http://slashdot.org/bsd/01/09/24/1432223.shtml September 24th of last year. The question about an update on the outcome of the story is probably a legitimate thing to ask. The person to ask, though would be Soeren, since it was his code. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 7:49:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB3AE37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m-net.arbornet.org (m-net.arbornet.org [209.142.209.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B4A743E6E for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 07:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from polytarp@m-net.arbornet.org) Received: from m-net.arbornet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m-net.arbornet.org (8.12.3/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8HEno9T081766 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:50:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from polytarp@m-net.arbornet.org) Received: from localhost (polytarp@localhost) by m-net.arbornet.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id g8H34hT1019766 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:04:43 -0400 (EDT) From: pgreen To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Plato's theses Message-ID: <20020916230117.K19515-100000@m-net.arbornet.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org jphilman@well.com wrote: > > > What do you think of this? > > > 3365 Then we shall want merchants? > > > 3366 > > > 3367 We shall. > > > 3368 > > > 3369 And if merchandise is to be carried over the sea, skilful sailors > > > 3370 will also be needed, and in considerable numbers? > > > 3371 > > > 3372 Yes, in considerable numbers. John McMillan wrote: > > I don't know... somehow that doesn't seem right. [-- lines excised --] I have to wonder what YOU think about it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 10: 7:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60AD137B404 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from directvinternet.com (dsl-65-185-140-165.telocity.com [65.185.140.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910D143EA3 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:47:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nwestfal@directvinternet.com) Received: from Tolstoy.home.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by directvinternet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8HGkpGd025558; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:46:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nwestfal@directvinternet.com) Received: from localhost (nwestfal@localhost) by Tolstoy.home.lan (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) with ESMTP id g8HGkoDS025555; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:46:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: Tolstoy.home.lan: nwestfal owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:46:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Neal E. Westfall" X-X-Sender: nwestfal@Tolstoy.home.lan To: Lawrence Sica Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why did evolution fail? In-Reply-To: <13D4513B-C688-11D6-A85D-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20020916091115.J71904-100000@Tolstoy.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > The Christian canon is not based on the dead sea scrolls. The canon is > > based on what the church has always recognized as the scriptures. The > > concept of canonicity was inherited from the Jewish church from whom it > > received the Old Testament scriptures. The New Testament scriptures > > were received gradually by the church from the apostles and their close > > associates, and as such were approved by the apostles, who were in turn > > commissioned by Christ Himself. > > Not exactly, the Bible in its current state was decided over 300 years > after Jesus walked on earth. What you mean is that it was formally canonized 300 years after Jesus walked the earth. That does not change the legitimacy of the canon, since the criteria for determining the canon was apostolic authenticity. > And like I have said before there were > hundreds of books and gospels. There were hundreds of books and gospels written by all kinds of people who did not have apostolic authority. Why does it seem so surprising that the church would want to weed all of these dubious sources out? > Constantine began the process of > canonization of the Bible. The reason for it was to make sure everyone > was on the same page so to speak. No, the reason was because the heretic Marcion attempted to repudiate all of the old testament and most of the new testament scriptures as well. > The word itself is greek btw. They > wanted to stop heretics, and thus the orthodoxy was established in the > canon of the Bible. And while one takes it on faith that the books > included were inspired by God's Will. One has to ask, if all the books > were inspired by God why were they not all included? Why were some > deemed right and wrong, and what was the criteria? The criteria was apostolic authenticity. If a book was to be considered part of the canon, it had to be penned either by an apostle or one of their close associates. Books like "The Gospel of Thomas" were recognized to be of dubious authority and as such were rejected. By the way, just by reading most of these books one can see why they would be considered of dubious authority. The stories are silly and pointless. > Books that would > have preached that the church was not always needed would have been > removed for example. Thus politics, in this case, the survival of the > Church, came into play. What this line of thinking fails to take into account is that the kind of God that we find in the scriptures would be willing and able to preserve those books which He intended to be preserved for all ages. God providentially preserved those books which needed to be preserved for the church in all ages. Speculation about political motivations and such are somewhat irrelevant, unless you reject the existence of God from the outset. Presuppositions have determinitive function in how you view the canon. > Plus remember the man who started this was a > political figure, and wanted to further his chosen religion above all > others in his empire, hence that would also have a bearing on the > outcome. Yes, but it was not Constantine who decided on the canon, it was the church which received the scriptures from the apostolic tradition and later formally canonized them. All political considerations are incidental. > >> Is the true canon the dead sea scrolls? Or is it the King James > >> translation into English of the Bible? > > > > What has *any* English translation have to do with it? The canon > > was received from the apostles, who were commissioned by Christ. > > The principle by which the church eventually agreed on what was to > > be included in the canon was the historical tradition of apostolicity. > > > > English translation has a lot to do with it. Look at the the name > Jehova. If you take two versions of the Bible translated by different > people, you will have two slightly different books. Yes, but the overall message will be much the same. This is why we don't just do one-man translations. Every English translation we have is the result of the work of many scholars. This by no means is an indication that we have a "perfect" translation anywhere, but it does mean that overall, we can trust it. There is always more work to be done of course, and as scholarship improves our translations will also improve. > That is why a > translation has a lot to do with it. History itself is full of > mistranslations of words not only in the Bible. Which is why scholarship is important. It doesn't mean we just throw up our hands and give up altogether. As Christians, we believe in objective truth and that there are ways to resolve these kinds of disputes. Maybe not to everyone's satisfaction, but they can be resolved. Neal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 10:51:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E76537B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from primus.vsservices.com (primus.vsservices.com [63.66.136.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C255443E75 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gclarkii@vsservices.com) Received: from prime.vsservices.com (conr-adsl-dhcp-26-247.txucom.net [209.34.26.247]) by primus.vsservices.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g8HHpjmt006415; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:51:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from gclarkii@vsservices.com) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:51:45 -0500 From: GB Clark To: Kris Kirby Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Message-Id: <20020917125145.6503e3ed.gclarkii@vsservices.com> In-Reply-To: References: <3D870678.1080004@inspire.net.nz> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.6) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:37:48 +0000 (GMT) Kris Kirby wrote: > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Bruce Harding wrote: > > Isn't this like a year old, and it turned out to be just one guy who > > does this sort of thing frequently? > > Yes, and IIRC the BSD code was demonstration/reference code from a > manufacturer. > > If they knew anything about law, would they be software developers? ;-) > > -- > Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' > "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" > This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security I think the big thing was the not the code usage, but the fact that wholesale lots where used without attribution. If it would have been just structures, Ok, but variable names AND the comments to the code??? The comments were what got me... Plus the guys reaction to the slashdot article; It reminded me of a sixth grader! The same thing happened again with some other code, either IPC or SCSI, but I don't have the reference at my finger tips. GB -- GB Clark II | Roaming FreeBSD Admin gclarkii@VSServices.COM | General Geek CTHULU for President - Why choose the lesser of two evils? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 12:41:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA3537B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C07F43E65 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00625; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:41:05 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook is dangerous and makes your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020917133934.0275f690@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:41:03 -0600 To: benjamin@seattleFenix.net From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Cc: Alex , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20020917033721.B27210@mail.seattleFenix.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> <4417215744.20020916215255@dds.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:37 AM 9/17/2002, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > Not that we're overgeneralizing, extremely biased, incredibly inaccurate, >and just plain trolling or anything... Actually, no. They really are that rabid. Say something pro-BSD on Slashdot and just watched as the GPL zealots flame you to a nice, toasty crisp. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 13:30:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ACBA37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jive.SoftHome.net (jive.SoftHome.net [66.54.152.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 55AB543E8A for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:30:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yid@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 3674 invoked by uid 417); 17 Sep 2002 20:30:21 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-out-0 (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.3.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 17 Sep 2002 20:30:21 -0000 Received: from planb ([216.194.22.55]) (AUTH: LOGIN yid@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:30:15 -0600 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:28:51 -0400 From: Joshua Lee To: Brett Glass Cc: benjamin@seattleFenix.net, freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Message-Id: <20020917162851.2b8c4c97.yid@softhome.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020917133934.0275f690@localhost> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> <4417215744.20020916215255@dds.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20020917133934.0275f690@localhost> Organization: Plan B Software Labs X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.2claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:41:03 -0600 Brett Glass wrote: > At 04:37 AM 9/17/2002, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > > Not that we're overgeneralizing, extremely biased, incredibly > > inaccurate, > >and just plain trolling or anything... > > Actually, no. They really are that rabid. Say something pro-BSD on > Slashdot and just watched as the GPL zealots flame you to a nice, > toasty crisp. It depends upon when and where you say it. /. has a "BSD" section where the only trolling is of a couple of anonymous posters who's repetitive cut-and-paste trolls are more worth a chuckle than anything else. Also I've noticed a greater respect for *BSD has been occuring since OS X, which most are aware is BSD-based, has appeared on the scene and gotten a lot of geek points. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 13:38:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008A037B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org [64.239.180.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C73643E4A for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:38:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8HKbt106631; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org) Message-Id: <200209172037.g8HKbt106631@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Joshua Lee Cc: Brett Glass , benjamin@seattleFenix.net, freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:37:50 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html That says it all, to me. (ObTerry: NO I haven't confirmed this myself by testing the ellipticity of the obligatory curve, nor do I know the statistical methods netcraft uses. ;) ) ------ Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< Of all the strange "crimes" that human beings have legislated out of nothing, "blasphemy" is the most amazing--with "obscenity" and "indecent exposure" fighting it out for second and third place. - Robert Anson Heinlein To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 14:14:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE95E37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88A0E43E91 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:14:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0465.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.210] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17rPfw-0007OW-00; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:14:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3D879ABA.91F7D49@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:12:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Hayes Cc: Joshua Lee , Brett Glass , benjamin@seattleFenix.net, freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel References: <200209172037.g8HKbt106631@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dave Hayes wrote: > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html > > That says it all, to me. What would say even more is if you knew that there was a clock rollover on the Linux uptime, and that a reboot was required to work around it. Also, it's very easy to forge numbers to the monitoring server (not that *anyone* would *ever* do that...). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 15:32:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA3E37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (papagena.rockefeller.edu [129.85.41.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD38F43E4A for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@papagena.rockefeller.edu) Received: (from rsidd@localhost) by papagena.rockefeller.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g8HMWYg03545; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:32:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:32:34 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Message-ID: <20020917183234.L2398@papagena.rockefeller.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.9-12smp i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > Dave Hayes wrote: > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html > > That says it all, to me. > > What would say even more is if you knew that there was a clock > rollover on the Linux uptime, and that a reboot was required to > work around it. Lots of other systems aren't reliably reported. As anyone would know if they read http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html#whichos And how exactly does a reboot "work around" a clock rollover? As for the subject line: the thing blew over in a day or two, as you'd know if you did minimal digging around via google -- eg, http://www.bsdtoday.com/2001/September/News565.html And the linux header file hptraid.h, from any recent kernel which you can easily download from http://www.kernel.org, begins with the following: /*- * Copyright (c) 2000,2001 Søren Schmidt * All rights reserved. * + the BSD license below it. And I dug out all that in roughly 2 minutes. Sheesh. - Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 16: 1:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C31737B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1119843E3B for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:01:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0306.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.51] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17rRL7-0007m6-00; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:01:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3D87B37D.A0E8BC16@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:58:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel References: <20020917183234.L2398@papagena.rockefeller.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > What would say even more is if you knew that there was a clock > > rollover on the Linux uptime, and that a reboot was required to > > work around it. > = > Lots of other systems aren't reliably reported. As anyone would know > if they read > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html#whichos > = > And how exactly does a reboot "work around" a clock rollover? Uh, "was required" is past tense. The way it works around it is by setting the 32 bit uptime back to zero, so that it doesn't overflow and cause the box to puke. Now it's 64 bits. Rebooting was also required for the switch from 32 to 64 bits. 8-). > As for the subject line: the thing blew over in a day or two, as you'd > know if you did minimal digging around via google -- eg, > http://www.bsdtoday.com/2001/September/News565.html Uh, I was the first one who pointed out that the original posting was a year past it's "sell by" date. > And the linux header file hptraid.h, from any recent kernel which you > can easily download from http://www.kernel.org, begins with the > following: > = > /*- > * Copyright (c) 2000,2001 S=F8ren Schmidt > * All rights reserved. > * > + the BSD license below it. > = > And I dug out all that in roughly 2 minutes. Sheesh. Which begs the Brett-like question of how the code can be BSDL'ed and GPL'ed at the same time. I think you are overreacting to Brett. The reason I said it was probably a legitimate question is that it may have been resolved in another forum, but it was posted about in this one, and the results weren't posted *in this one*. In any case, if Soeren doesn't pursue the matter, then no one really cares. Which is also why I said: "The person to ask, though would be Soeren, since it was his code." -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 16:40:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A05F37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail2.rockefeller.edu (webmail2.rockefeller.edu [129.85.249.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9154B43E42 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@papagena.rockefeller.edu) Received: from bluerondo.a.la.turk (gendialup7.rockefeller.edu [129.85.131.106]) by webmail2.rockefeller.edu (Switch-2.2.4/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g8HNeoX03439 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 382 invoked by uid 1001); 17 Sep 2002 23:40:49 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:40:49 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Message-ID: <20020917234049.GA358@papagena.rockefeller.edu> References: <20020917183234.L2398@papagena.rockefeller.edu> <3D87B37D.A0E8BC16@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D87B37D.A0E8BC16@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.7-PRERELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert said on Sep 17, 2002 at 15:58:05: > > > As for the subject line: the thing blew over in a day or two, as you'd > > know if you did minimal digging around via google -- eg, > > http://www.bsdtoday.com/2001/September/News565.html > > Uh, I was the first one who pointed out that the original posting > was a year past it's "sell by" date. Sorry - the "you" wasn't meant to be you, personally > I think you are overreacting to Brett. I wasn't reacting to Brett. I know his motives are not clean. -- Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 16:49:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F47237B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp09.wxs.nl (smtp09.wxs.nl [195.121.6.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8913343E72 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl) Received: from cybertron.kruijff ([213.10.151.186]) by smtp09.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id H2LWV401.8KD; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:49:52 +0200 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:49:47 +0200 From: Alex X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: Alex X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <11940544419.20020918014947@dds.nl> To: Terry Lambert Cc: Dave Hayes , Joshua Lee , Brett Glass , , , Subject: Re[2]: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <3D879ABA.91F7D49@mindspring.com> References: <200209172037.g8HKbt106631@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> <3D879ABA.91F7D49@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello/Beste Terry, Tuesday, September 17, 2002, 11:12:26 PM, you wrote: TL> Dave Hayes wrote: >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html >> >> That says it all, to me. TL> What would say even more is if you knew that there was a clock TL> rollover on the Linux uptime, and that a reboot was required to TL> work around it. TL> Also, it's very easy to forge numbers to the monitoring server TL> (not that *anyone* would *ever* do that...). TL> -- Terry TL> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org TL> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message It would be healty for a server if it rebooted once a month of every other month, due to security reasons. (install of new OS version cq security updates) -- Best regards/Met vriendelijke groet, Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 17: 9: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269DF37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail19a.dulles19-verio.com (mail19a.dulles19-verio.com [161.58.134.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E0C043E97 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rob@pythonemproject.com) Received: from www.pythonemproject.com (198.104.176.109) by mail19a.dulles19-verio.com (RS ver 1.0.63s) with SMTP id 036324 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D87C3E5.EB2BB9A@pythonemproject.com> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:08:05 -0700 From: Rob X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "chat@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel/ and evolution failed References: <200209172037.g8HKbt106631@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> <3D879ABA.91F7D49@mindspring.com> <11940544419.20020918014947@dds.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm so thrilled there is a new thread in town! I guess the evolution thread evolved info an extinct species. -- ----------------------------- The Numeric Python EM Project www.pythonemproject.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 17:10:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9214A37B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1362D43E75 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:10:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17rSQH-0006G5-00; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:10:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:10:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <11940544419.20020918014947@dds.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Alex wrote: > It would be healty for a server if it rebooted once a month of every > other month, due to security reasons. (install of new OS version cq > security updates) Usually new OS versions aren't available every month. And just because a new version is officially released doesn't mean that you need to update to it then. Also security updates don't all deal with kernel. And some kernel security issues may be for some kernel code/features that aren't even used. Maybe every five or six months to one year is closer (and broad) estimate for needed reboots. Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 18:12: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5124637B401 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D102543E3B for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0221.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.221] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17rTNk-0002r6-00; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:11:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3D87D201.1DC475B9@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:08:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex Cc: Dave Hayes , Joshua Lee , Brett Glass , benjamin@seattleFenix.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel References: <200209172037.g8HKbt106631@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> <3D879ABA.91F7D49@mindspring.com> <11940544419.20020918014947@dds.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex wrote: > It would be healty for a server if it rebooted once a month of every > other month, due to security reasons. (install of new OS version cq > security updates) ??? !!! Just load replacement kernel modules. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 17 20: 8: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8739937B4D2 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C830243EE5 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 03D428146E; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:37:55 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:37:54 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Brett Glass Cc: Alex , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Message-ID: <20020918030754.GB33163@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <4417215744.20020916215255@dds.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020916234903.00bf67a0@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 16 September 2002 at 23:51:22 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:52 PM 9/16/2002, Alex wrote: > >> Hello/Beste , >> >> I was browsing trough a news directory and found this article. Does >> anybody has the story how it ended? Does anyone know if it happened >> again? >> >> http://slashdot.org/bsd/01/09/24/1432223.shtml > > It doubtless happens all the time. The GPL zealots are unwilling to > admit that BSD code has any merit whatsoever, and so refuse to give > credit or preserve the copyright notice or license in many cases. > Yes, they're engaging in theft, but being unethical already (the > GPL being an unethical attempt to destroy developers' livelihoods) > they don't care. Well, far be it for me to try to teach you a balanced view of the community, but maybe I can point you to some facts. As others have pointed out, this issue is a year old. In addition, it was resolved almost before it started. Take a look at http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21918&cid=2348894. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 0:51: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0423437B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org [64.239.180.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BFE143E4A for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:51:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8I7oW112722; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:50:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org) Message-Id: <200209180750.g8I7oW112722@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Rob Cc: "chat@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel/ and evolution failed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:50:27 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org rob writes: > I'm so thrilled there is a new thread in town! I guess the evolution > thread evolved info an extinct species. We could reincarnate it if you'd like... ;) ------ Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< F x S = k. The product of Freedom and Security is a constant. -- Larry Niven To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 0:54:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A4937B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org [64.239.180.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBED43E42 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:54:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8I7s6112760; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:54:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org) Message-Id: <200209180754.g8I7s6112760@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Joshua Lee , Brett Glass , benjamin@seattleFenix.net, freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:54:01 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > Dave Hayes wrote: >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html >> >> That says it all, to me. > > What would say even more is if you knew that there was a clock > rollover on the Linux uptime, and that a reboot was required to > work around it. This is the Linux problem, not mine. Besides, I never claimed the above to be "Terry Lambert" accurate, remember? > Also, it's very easy to forge numbers to the monitoring server > (not that *anyone* would *ever* do that...). Once again. See "ObTerry" in my last post. Sheesh. ;) ------ Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< "We think we are safe at home with our bumper stickers, in the name of a squeaky clean America...screaming for blood and justice....slogans mean nothing to a young man facing 352 years hard labor [in prison] for a crime he did not commit." -Aaron Neville To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 5:49:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D305837B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 05:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail19a.dulles19-verio.com (mail19a.dulles19-verio.com [161.58.134.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 22BE143E9C for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 05:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rob@pythonemproject.com) Received: from www.pythonemproject.com (198.104.176.109) by mail19a.dulles19-verio.com (RS ver 1.0.63s) with SMTP id 097713; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 08:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D88760F.B4E85E22@pythonemproject.com> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 05:48:15 -0700 From: Rob X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Hayes , "chat@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel/ and evolution failed References: <200209180750.g8I7oW112722@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dave Hayes wrote: > > rob writes: > > I'm so thrilled there is a new thread in town! I guess the evolution > > thread evolved info an extinct species. > > We could reincarnate it if you'd like... ;) > ------ > Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org > >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< > > F x S = k. The product of Freedom and Security is a constant. > -- Larry Niven Please no, although it would forward the interests of the Email Genome project. Rob. -- ----------------------------- The Numeric Python EM Project www.pythonemproject.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 7:15:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75C8F37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 07:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193E343E7B for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 07:15:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0170.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.170] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17rfby-00066T-00; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 07:15:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3D888A3E.27054529@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 07:14:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Hayes Cc: Joshua Lee , Brett Glass , benjamin@seattleFenix.net, freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel References: <200209180754.g8I7s6112760@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dave Hayes wrote: > >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html > >> > >> That says it all, to me. > > > > What would say even more is if you knew that there was a clock > > rollover on the Linux uptime, and that a reboot was required to > > work around it. > > This is the Linux problem, not mine. Besides, I never claimed the > above to be "Terry Lambert" accurate, remember? It would be nice if the statistics which "say it all" for you bore any relationship whatsoever to the all you implied they were saying... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 10:56:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B966E37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org [64.239.180.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE0B43E42 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:56:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8IHtW116519; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:55:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org) Message-Id: <200209181755.g8IHtW116519@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Joshua Lee , Brett Glass , benjamin@seattleFenix.net, freebsd-reply@akruijff.dds.nl, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:55:27 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > Dave Hayes wrote: >> >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html >> >> >> >> That says it all, to me. >> > >> > What would say even more is if you knew that there was a clock >> > rollover on the Linux uptime, and that a reboot was required to >> > work around it. >> >> This is the Linux problem, not mine. Besides, I never claimed the >> above to be "Terry Lambert" accurate, remember? > > It would be nice if the statistics which "say it all" for you > bore any relationship whatsoever to the all you implied they > were saying... It wouldn't be "nice", it would be "Terry Lambert accurate". "Nice" would be you not being righteous just for -one- message. ;) These statistics aren't wildly inaccurate, just inaccurate. There's some information there. There's a relationship there. ------ Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< A philosopher called on Nasrudin and found him away from home. Infuriated, he wrote 'Stupid Oaf' on his door. As soon as Nasrudin got home and saw this, he rushed to the philosopher's house. "I'd forgotten", he said, "that you were to call. And I apologize for not having been at home. I remembered our appointment as soon as I saw that you'd left your name on my door..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 11:47:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECBC37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (papagena.rockefeller.edu [129.85.41.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D37843E65 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@papagena.rockefeller.edu) Received: (from rsidd@localhost) by papagena.rockefeller.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g8IIlmF05330; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 14:47:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 14:47:47 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Dave Hayes Cc: Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Message-ID: <20020918144747.J4623@papagena.rockefeller.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200209181755.g8IHtW116519@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.9-12smp i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dave Hayes wrote: > >> >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html > >> >> > >> >> That says it all, to me. [...] > These statistics aren't wildly inaccurate, just inaccurate. There's > some information there. There's a relationship there. That does not "say it all." I'm willing to believe the statistics are totally accurate, in the sense that those particular machines do indeed have those particular uptimes. The point is, it would be moronic to base any sort of decision on those statistics, given (a) the information they leave out (as their own disclaimer points out), (b) the systems they can't handle at all (again, as their own disclaimer points out) (c) the fact that the sysadmins involved apparently never upgrade their software -- many of those machines seem to be running antique versions of Apache with known security holes. (Possibly they've patched the holes without upgrading. Then again, possibly not.) There are lots of very good reasons to advocate BSD. This uptime list isn't one. - Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 16:17:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C9E37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org [64.239.180.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F2243E65 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:17:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8INGX118375; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:16:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org) Message-Id: <200209182316.g8INGX118375@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:16:28 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rahul Siddharthan writes: > Dave Hayes wrote: >> >> >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html >> >> >> >> >> >> That says it all, to me. > [...] >> These statistics aren't wildly inaccurate, just inaccurate. There's >> some information there. There's a relationship there. > > That does not "say it all." Um, this was Terry-bait, not Rahul-bait. > I'm willing to believe the statistics are totally accurate, in the > sense that those particular machines do indeed have those particular > uptimes. The point is, it would be moronic to base any sort of > decision on those statistics, given Whether you consider it moronic or not does not make it moronic. =) In other words, even though I might agree that it would not be a good idea to base any decision on those statistics, I wouldn't call it "moronic" in public unless I was trying for an effect. The "says it all" is a similar sort of effect. It brings out a certain type of response, it is a litmus test for a certain manner of interacting with the world. Here's another: There is a significant amount of BSD on that list. The list measures some uptimes of a set of operating systems. Of that set, BSD clearly beats the rest of them, whatever they are. > (c) the fact that the sysadmins involved apparently never upgrade their > software -- many of those machines seem to be running > antique versions of Apache with known security holes. (Possibly > they've patched the holes without upgrading. Then again, possibly > not.) This is something I also noticed. I agree with you, and it could be a potential hit list for script kiddies. > There are lots of very good reasons to advocate BSD. This uptime list > isn't one. Well, isn't that special. =) So. Mind relating what -you- think are some good reasons then? Negation with no replacement is...being like Terry. ;) ------ Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< A king who feared wasps once decreed that they would be abolished. As it happened, they did him no harm. But he was eventually stung to death by scorpions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 17:37:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F8D37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.seattleFenix.net (seattleFenix.net [216.39.145.247]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56AE43E75 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:37:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roo@mail.seattleFenix.net) Received: (from roo@localhost) by mail.seattleFenix.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g8J0YQS40390; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roo) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:34:26 -0700 From: Benjamin Krueger To: Dave Hayes Cc: Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org, Rahul Siddharthan Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Message-ID: <20020918173426.A40318@mail.seattleFenix.net> Reply-To: benjamin@seattleFenix.net References: <200209182316.g8INGX118375@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200209182316.g8INGX118375@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org>; from dave@jetcafe.org on Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 04:16:28PM -0700 X-PGP-Key: http://www.macguire.net/benjamin/public_key.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dave Hayes (dave@jetcafe.org) [020918 16:15]: > Rahul Siddharthan writes: > > Dave Hayes wrote: > >> >> >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html > >> >> >> > >> >> >> That says it all, to me. > > [...] > >> These statistics aren't wildly inaccurate, just inaccurate. There's > >> some information there. There's a relationship there. > > > > That does not "say it all." Honestly, it doesn't really say anything. =) > Um, this was Terry-bait, not Rahul-bait. Terry-bait, Rahul-bait, Brett-bait, it all tastes the same. Like worms! > > I'm willing to believe the statistics are totally accurate, in the > > sense that those particular machines do indeed have those particular > > uptimes. The point is, it would be moronic to base any sort of > > decision on those statistics, given > > Whether you consider it moronic or not does not make it moronic. =) It wouldn't be moronic per se, just misleading, foolish, and unscientific. =) > In other words, even though I might agree that it would not be a good > idea to base any decision on those statistics, I wouldn't call it > "moronic" in public unless I was trying for an effect. > > The "says it all" is a similar sort of effect. It brings out a > certain type of response, it is a litmus test for a certain > manner of interacting with the world. > > Here's another: There is a significant amount of BSD on that list. The > list measures some uptimes of a set of operating systems. Of that set, > BSD clearly beats the rest of them, whatever they are. Beats them how? I bet I could run a tiny web server in DOS for 600 days. Does that mean it clearly beats the rest of them? However factual that may be, it is still unrelated to the original issue being discussed, which was the use of one piece of BSD code in the Linux kernel. In fact, your statement was pretty random. What exactly were you trying to prove by showing us the netcraft stats? > > (c) the fact that the sysadmins involved apparently never upgrade their > > software -- many of those machines seem to be running > > antique versions of Apache with known security holes. (Possibly > > they've patched the holes without upgrading. Then again, possibly > > not.) > > This is something I also noticed. I agree with you, and it could be a > potential hit list for script kiddies. > > > There are lots of very good reasons to advocate BSD. This uptime list > > isn't one. > > Well, isn't that special. =) So. Mind relating what -you- think are > some good reasons then? > > Negation with no replacement is...being like Terry. ;) You just negated. What is your replacement? ;) > ------ > Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org > >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< > > A king who feared wasps once decreed that they would be > abolished. > > As it happened, they did him no harm. But he was eventually > stung to death by scorpions. -- Benjamin Krueger "Everyone has wings, some folks just don't know what they're for" - B. Banzai ---------------------------------------------------------------- Send mail w/ subject 'send public key' or query for (0x251A4B18) Fingerprint = A642 F299 C1C1 C828 F186 A851 CFF0 7711 251A 4B18 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 18: 6:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E4537B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org [64.239.180.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5A443E42 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:06:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8J167119091; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:06:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org) Message-Id: <200209190106.g8J167119091@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: benjamin@seattleFenix.net Cc: Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org, Rahul Siddharthan Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:06:02 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Benjamin Krueger writes: > Terry-bait, Rahul-bait, Brett-bait, it all tastes the same. Like > worms! Then don't eat them. Instead, pick and choose what you eat. ;) > You just negated. What is your replacement? ;) Where did I negate? ------ Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< If at first you don't succeed ... redefine success. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 18 22:12:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B6537B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D5A43E42 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:12:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lomifeh@earthlink.net) Received: from bgp586692bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net (bgp586692bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.202.147]) by mtaout02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.4 (built Aug 5 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H2O00FJR6GULX@mtaout02.icomcast.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 01:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 01:12:29 -0400 From: Lawrence Sica Subject: Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel In-reply-to: <20020918173426.A40318@mail.seattleFenix.net> To: benjamin@seattleFenix.net Cc: Dave Hayes , Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org, Rahul Siddharthan Message-id: <652D7076-CB8E-11D6-BF28-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.543) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, Sep 18, 2002, at 20:34 US/Eastern, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > * Dave Hayes (dave@jetcafe.org) [020918 16:15]: >> Rahul Siddharthan writes: >>> Dave Hayes wrote: >>>>>>>> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That says it all, to me. >>> [...] >>>> These statistics aren't wildly inaccurate, just inaccurate. There's >>>> some information there. There's a relationship there. >>> >>> That does not "say it all." > > Honestly, it doesn't really say anything. =) > >> Um, this was Terry-bait, not Rahul-bait. > > Terry-bait, Rahul-bait, Brett-bait, it all tastes the same. Like worms! > No the best bait tastes like little balls of dough. Didn't you ever fish? >>> I'm willing to believe the statistics are totally accurate, in the >>> sense that those particular machines do indeed have those particular >>> uptimes. The point is, it would be moronic to base any sort of >>> decision on those statistics, given >> >> Whether you consider it moronic or not does not make it moronic. =) > > It wouldn't be moronic per se, just misleading, foolish, and > unscientific. =) > one mans moron is another mans guru..... (meaningless i know) >> In other words, even though I might agree that it would not be a good >> idea to base any decision on those statistics, I wouldn't call it >> "moronic" in public unless I was trying for an effect. >> >> The "says it all" is a similar sort of effect. It brings out a >> certain type of response, it is a litmus test for a certain >> manner of interacting with the world. >> >> Here's another: There is a significant amount of BSD on that list. The >> list measures some uptimes of a set of operating systems. Of that set, >> BSD clearly beats the rest of them, whatever they are. > > Beats them how? I bet I could run a tiny web server in DOS for 600 > days. Does > that mean it clearly beats the rest of them? > > However factual that may be, it is still unrelated to the original > issue being > discussed, which was the use of one piece of BSD code in the Linux > kernel. In > fact, your statement was pretty random. What exactly were you trying > to prove > by showing us the netcraft stats? > Well doesn't the highest uptime on a box belong to a netware server? Something you'd not use for say web serving, unless you are a masochist or something ;). I am more interested in availability than uptime, I want to know, in the case of a website, that my site is available for the world as much as is possible. I don't care about a 3 am reboot. What I do care about is a webcam for a really popular baby panda being down just after good Morning America flashes the url all over the screen and cnn.com carries a frontpage story on it. (Yes I dealt with that, even got to see the baby up close). >>> (c) the fact that the sysadmins involved apparently never upgrade >>> their >>> software -- many of those machines seem to be running >>> antique versions of Apache with known security holes. (Possibly >>> they've patched the holes without upgrading. Then again, >>> possibly >>> not.) >> >> This is something I also noticed. I agree with you, and it could be a >> potential hit list for script kiddies. >> Depends, did they patch it? Not every patch requires a reboot. This can be misleading without further information. --Larry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 19 14:15:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE8737B401 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382BF43E4A for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:15:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JLFSk08173 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:15:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g8JLFSs12191 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:15:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JLFOo12172 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:15:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D8A3E52.2090202@centtech.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:14:58 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD NFS server using two NICs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone running freebsd as an NFS server, sharing data on multiple NICs? I have an odd problem (in the PR database even) that I can't solve. Matt Dillon was helping me quite a bit, but I think he is bored of me. :D Just trying to figure out how to fix it so I can get rid of Solaris on my big fileservers and go to FreeBSD. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 19 14:34:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13ED737B401 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4C643E6A for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:34:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0128.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.128] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17s8wK-0006x9-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:34:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8A428B.B96FBE75@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:32:59 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD NFS server using two NICs References: <3D8A3E52.2090202@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > Anyone running freebsd as an NFS server, sharing data on multiple NICs? > > I have an odd problem (in the PR database even) that I can't solve. > Matt Dillon was helping me quite a bit, but I think he is bored of me. :D > > Just trying to figure out how to fix it so I can get rid of Solaris on > my big fileservers and go to FreeBSD. It would help if you gave a URL into the PR database for your problem report, if you are going to reference it this way. E.g. is this the multipath problem, where some NFS clients do not admit the possibility of equivalence between the source address they are expecting for a response, and the actual source address from which the response originates, etc.? Or is it some other problem? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 19 14:46:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130D637B401 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C7A43E3B for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:46:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JLkGk08927; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:46:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g8JLkGs14315; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:46:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JLkDo14308; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:46:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3D8A458B.2080608@centtech.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:45:47 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD NFS server using two NICs References: <3D8A3E52.2090202@centtech.com> <3D8A428B.B96FBE75@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > Eric Anderson wrote: > >>Anyone running freebsd as an NFS server, sharing data on multiple NICs? >> >>I have an odd problem (in the PR database even) that I can't solve. >>Matt Dillon was helping me quite a bit, but I think he is bored of me. :D >> >>Just trying to figure out how to fix it so I can get rid of Solaris on >>my big fileservers and go to FreeBSD. > > > It would help if you gave a URL into the PR database for your > problem report, if you are going to reference it this way. Right you are: It's PR# 35151: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=misc/35151 > E.g. is this the multipath problem, where some NFS clients do > not admit the possibility of equivalence between the source > address they are expecting for a response, and the actual > source address from which the response originates, etc.? Or > is it some other problem? It's a different problem than that - although that is an annoying problem - but easily worked around (and I understand why "it is so"). The PR describes the problem in a fair amount of detail, but basically my NFS server's nfsd processes shoot to 100% cpu usage as soon as a solaris nfs client connects to it on both NICs. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 19 15:11:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E0037B476 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2CDE43E4A for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0128.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.128] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17s9WL-0003eS-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:11:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8A4B40.67C8E2A2@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:10:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD NFS server using two NICs References: <3D8A3E52.2090202@centtech.com> <3D8A428B.B96FBE75@mindspring.com> <3D8A458B.2080608@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > > It would help if you gave a URL into the PR database for your > > problem report, if you are going to reference it this way. > > Right you are: > > It's PR# 35151: > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=misc/35151 Are the clients connectiong via TCP or UDP? There is a common problem with UDP, with clients connecting with a read/write size that is much larger than the MTU (mostly Linux clients), so you end up getting a crud-load of UDP packets sitting in the reassembly buffer for long periods of tiem, without a frag retansmit mechanism other than resending the whole of the data. The correct fixes for this are one of: o Use TCP instead o Drop the read/write size to less than or equal to the amount of data that can be sent in a single MTU. Basically, large UDP datagrams that get broken up are someone wanting the benefits of having a large window, without using a windowed protocol. The long term correction for this would probably be to do IP based RED queueing of requests (plain RED would result in the ability to DOS it with partial UDP requests, and saturation dropping of the reassembly queue would permit you to DOS real data out of the reassembly queue with "two packet, second half" attacks, at the expense of much > 2 packet reassemblies -- a statistical attack, in both cases). Another thing to look at is to do a dump of the raw packets on the wires; it may be that the Sun machine is sending the requests at random, with the multipath, and only accepting responses that come from the "right" place in response, retrying the failed ones forever, or until it gets a response it will accept. A dump of the packets on the wire should tell you if this is happening. This theory fits well with the delayed ramp-up, and the additional delay, if soft updates are disabled. Other than those theories, and what to look for, it's easier to point you back at Matt. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 19 20: 8:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827E637B401 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 20:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [216.187.105.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3DEF43E65 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 20:08:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6333F3F; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:08:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Eric Anderson Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:09:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FreeBSD NFS server using two NICs Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <3D8A5914.23291.49ACA8BF@localhost> In-reply-to: <3D8A3E52.2090202@centtech.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 19 Sep 2002 at 16:14, Eric Anderson wrote: > Anyone running freebsd as an NFS server, sharing data on multiple NICs? Yes. $ cat /etc/exports /usr/ports -maproot=0 -network 192.168.0 -mask 255.255.255.0 /usr/src /usr/obj 192.168.0.48 /usr/src /usr/obj 192.168.0.16 /usr/src /usr/obj 192.168.0.20 #/home/repositories/freshports-1 192.168.0.16 /usr/ports -maproot=0 10.0.0.10 $ showmount -e Exports list on localhost: /usr/src 192.168.0.48 192.168.0.16 192.168.0.20 /usr/ports 192.168.0.0 10.0.0.10 /usr/obj 192.168.0.48 192.168.0.16 192.168.0.20 -- Dan Langille I'm looking for a computer job: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message