From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 10 6:41:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6EB37B401; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35ECC43E3B; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 06:41:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 2066B534E; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:41:39 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Jonathon McKitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? References: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:41:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> (Jonathon McKitrick's message of "Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:32:35 +0000") Message-ID: Lines: 23 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathon McKitrick writes: > dogma:...files/programs/objc> gcc -lobjc main.m printer.m -o testme ------ In source code, you have to define (or at least declare) symbols before you reference them. When linking, it's the other way around - the linker only includes objects it knows are needed because they define symbols which were referenced by previously included objects. I don't know about Objective C, but what happens for plain C is this: the linker starts out knowing it needs the entry point (called _start). It reads the run-time library (crt.o), which contains _start and references but does not define main, which is added to the list of unresolved symbols. Then it reads the first object file specified, which hopefully defines main and references a bunch of other symbols which are defined in object files and libraries specified later on the command line, and so forth until there are no more unresolved symbols. In other words: always specify libraries at the end of the compiler or linker command line. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 10 15:38:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C67EE37B406 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:38:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A50E43E3B for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:38:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gp@oitunix.oit.umass.edu) Received: from oitunix.oit.umass.edu ([24.62.112.163]) by sccrmhc03.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021110233819.XFWX3205.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@oitunix.oit.umass.edu> for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:38:19 +0000 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:38:18 -0500 (EST) From: gpav@attbi.com Subject: AT&T UNIX System V Manuals To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Message-Id: <20021110233819.XFWX3205.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@oitunix.oit.umass.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Any interest in these manuals, or are they trash? I don't use them for anything, so if you want them, we can work something out. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 10 17:41:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B25B37B401 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:41:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from out017.verizon.net (out017pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672F243E4A for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:41:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lsp3@gte.net) Received: from Pentium166 ([4.46.92.92]) by out017.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with SMTP id <20021111014131.JNID3572.out017.verizon.net@Pentium166>; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:41:31 -0600 Message-ID: <005801c28923$6cb5a720$0201a8c6@Pentium166> From: "Leland" To: , References: <20021110233819.XFWX3205.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@oitunix.oit.umass.edu> Subject: Re: AT&T UNIX System V Manuals Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:41:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Subject: AT&T UNIX System V Manuals > Any interest in these manuals, or are they trash? I don't use them for > anything, so if you want them, we can work something out. I use the SAM's book UNIX System V Bible, quick but for some the details use man pages. Leland Prince To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 10 23:54: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E749537B404 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from starinsu.com (ftp.starinsu.co.kr [203.252.5.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E29DA43E3B for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:53:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from xzhtgs@163.com) Received: from plain ([211.90.137.93]) by starinsu.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA18829 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:53:13 +0900 (KST) From: xzhtgs@163.com Message-Id: <200211110753.QAA18829@starinsu.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Ô¶³ÌË«½ÊÏßÊÓƵÊÕ·¢Æ÷ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:53:31 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="DEFAULT_CHARSET" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org HT-SJ1500ʹÓõçÄÔÎåÀàË«½ÊÏß´«ËÍÊÓƵÐźţ¬ÌرðÊÊÓÃÓÚÖÇÄÜ´óÂ¥×ÛºÏ ²¼Ïß¼à¿Øϵͳ»òÆäËûÔ¶³Ì¼à¿Ø¼°ÓÐÑÏÖع¤Òµ¸ÉÈÅÔ´µÄ³¡ºÏʹÓã¬Æä¼Û¸ñµÍ¡¢ ¿¹¸ÉÈÅÐÔÇ¿£¬Í¼ÏóÖÊÁ¿ºÃ¡¢¾àÀë¿É´ï2000Ã×,¼ÓÖм̿ɴïÊýǧÃ×£¬Ê¹ÓÃÒ»¸ù ËĶÔË«½ÊÏß¼´¿Éͬʱ´«ËÍÊÓƵ¡¢ÒôƵ¡¢½âÂëºÍµçÔ´»òËÄ·ͼÏó. ×îвúÆ·:ÐÔÄÜÒ»Á÷µÄÍøÂçÊÓƵ²úÆ·ÍøÉÏÑÝʾ£¬¿Éͨ¹ý»¥Á¬ÍøÌæ´úÆóÒµ 800µç»°£¬¸ü¿ÉÓë¿Í»§×ö¿ÉÊÓ½»Á÷£¬»¶Ó­ÏÂÔØ×îпͻ§¶ËÈí¼þÓëÎÒ¹«Ë¾¿Í»§ ·þÎñÈËÔ±Ö±½ÓÍøÉϽ»Ì¸¡£www.webht.com xzhtgs@163.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 11 3:31:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352B037B401 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 03:31:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C97B43E42 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 03:31:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 327B9534E; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:31:20 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: gpav@attbi.com Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AT&T UNIX System V Manuals References: <20021110233819.XFWX3205.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@oitunix.oit.umass.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:31:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20021110233819.XFWX3205.sccrmhc03.attbi.com@oitunix.oit.umass.edu> (gpav@attbi.com's message of "Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:38:18 -0500 (EST)") Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org gpav@attbi.com writes: > Any interest in these manuals, or are they trash? I don't use them for > anything, so if you want them, we can work something out. They do have a certain historical appeal. How many manuals are there, and what size are they? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 11 15:40:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84FC37B401 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D1B43E4A for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:40:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Mike.Jeays@rogers.com) Received: from rogers.com ([24.101.253.54]) by fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.06 201-253-122-126-106-20020509) with ESMTP id <20021111234015.EJMB4292.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@rogers.com> for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:40:15 -0500 Message-ID: <3DD03FDF.5020302@rogers.com> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:40:15 -0500 From: Mike Jeays User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: PKG-ADD suggestion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH PLAIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.101.253.54] using ID at Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:40:15 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It would be useful if pkg_add had an option that made it store a copy of the tarball on the local machine whenever it had to fetch it with FTP. Perhaps it could be triggered by defining an environment variable that would specify the directory where the tarball was to be placed; if the environment variable were not defined, the tarball would not be saved. One could then periodically burn a CD containing tarballs for packages that had been installed via FTP, and save future downloading resources. As a second comment, I find that many useful (to me) packages no longer appear on the 4-CD set. "Expect" and ImageMagick" are two that come to mind. I understand that there are now far more packages than can fit on 4 CDs, and wonder what is the rationale and process for deciding which packages are placed on the CD set, and which are omitted. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 11 15:40:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B19237B401; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:40:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB01343E4A; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:40:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #7) id 18BOAX-0007VT-00; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:40:37 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gABNeaPe017852; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:40:36 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gABNeamE017851; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:40:36 GMT Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:40:35 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? Message-ID: <20021111234035.GA17831@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Scanner: exiscan *18BOAX-0007VT-00*inB7hrqREo6* (Manchester Computing, University of Manchester) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 03:41:38PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: | In other words: always specify libraries at the end of the compiler or | linker command line. So why allow putting them at the beginning, where mistakes like this can happen? Is that ever useful? Would it be wrong to 'assume' all libraries be linked after all object files? jm -- My other computer is your Windows box. 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 11 21:34:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A42237B401 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:34:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69F443E3B for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:34:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18BTh0-0005Kn-00; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:34:30 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:34:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: Mike Jeays Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKG-ADD suggestion In-Reply-To: <3DD03FDF.5020302@rogers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Mike Jeays wrote: > It would be useful if pkg_add had an option that made it store a > copy of the tarball on the local machine whenever it had to > fetch it with FTP. Perhaps it could be triggered by defining an I agree (because I didn't want package re-ftp'd when there were problems). I worked on a patch for NetBSD's pkg_add to do that. You may want to use a mailing list that discusses the package tools (maybe freebsd-ports). You may want to check the open reports to see if someone has suggested it before. Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 11 22:11:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5227337B401 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:11:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpa.ha-net.ptd.net (smtpa.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.81]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4432643E75 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tms2@mail.ptd.net) Received: (qmail 24140 invoked by uid 50005); 12 Nov 2002 06:11:21 -0000 Received: from tms2@mail.ptd.net by smtpa.ha-net.ptd.net by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4232. spamassassin: 2.31. Clear:. Processed in 0.768015 secs); 12 Nov 2002 06:11:21 -0000 Received: from du104.cli.ptd.net (HELO mail.ptd.net) ([204.186.33.104]) (envelope-sender ) by smtpa.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 12 Nov 2002 06:11:20 -0000 Message-ID: <3DD09B89.F1247399@mail.ptd.net> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:11:21 -0500 From: "T.M. Sommers" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? References: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20021111234035.GA17831@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 03:41:38PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > | In other words: always specify libraries at the end of the compiler or > | linker command line. > > So why allow putting them at the beginning, where mistakes like this can > happen? Is that ever useful? Would it be wrong to 'assume' all libraries > be linked after all object files? Yes. At least in C and C++, the startup library (which calls main()), at least, must go first. Normally the compiler does this automatically, but you might want to do it yourself. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 11 22:38:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1618037B401 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from chen.org.nz (chen.org.nz [210.54.19.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D3243E77 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:38:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonc@chen.org.nz) Received: from grimoire.chen.org.nz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chen.org.nz (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAC6cR3f089874; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:38:27 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from jonc@grimoire.chen.org.nz) Received: (from jonc@localhost) by grimoire.chen.org.nz (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gAC6cQ06089873; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:38:26 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from jonc) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:38:26 +1300 From: Jonathan Chen To: Mike Jeays Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PKG-ADD suggestion Message-ID: <20021112063826.GB89822@grimoire.chen.org.nz> References: <3DD03FDF.5020302@rogers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DD03FDF.5020302@rogers.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 06:40:15PM -0500, Mike Jeays wrote: > It would be useful if pkg_add had an option that made it store a > copy of the tarball on the local machine whenever it had to > fetch it with FTP. Perhaps it could be triggered by defining an > environment variable that would specify the directory where > the tarball was to be placed; if the environment variable were > not defined, the tarball would not be saved. One could then > periodically burn a CD containing tarballs for packages that had > been installed via FTP, and save future downloading resources. Why? You can always recreate an installed package with: pkg_create -b name-of-installed-package -- Jonathan Chen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vini, vidi, velcro... I came, I saw, I stuck around To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 11 23:56: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E7A37B401 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from electre.pasteur.fr (electre.pasteur.fr [157.99.64.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAC943E6E for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:56:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olive@pasteur.fr) Received: from mafate.sis.pasteur.fr (mafate.sis.pasteur.fr [157.99.64.42]) by electre.pasteur.fr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAC7u1Rf501550 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:56:02 +0100 (CET) Received: by mafate.sis.pasteur.fr (Postfix, from userid 3494) id 3F0BE3F65F; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:56:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:56:07 +0100 From: Olivier Tharan To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PKG-ADD suggestion Message-ID: <20021112075607.GB70683@mafate.sis.pasteur.fr> References: <3DD03FDF.5020302@rogers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DD03FDF.5020302@rogers.com> X-Attribution: Olive X-message-flag: Outlook: spreading viruses since 1997! http://www.rodos.net/outlook/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Mike Jeays (20021111 18:40): > It would be useful if pkg_add had an option that made it store a > copy of the tarball on the local machine whenever it had to > fetch it with FTP. Perhaps it could be triggered by defining an On a side note, you can use 'portinstall -FPP '. (-F = fetch only, -PP = use packages) pkg_fetch can also be useful. olive -- panic("esp: Aiee penguin on the SCSI-bus."); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 2:45:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097F937B401; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38D643E42; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:45:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 4A70A534E; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:45:27 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Jonathon McKitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unresolved reference compiling Objective-C ?? References: <20021108173235.GA82490@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20021111234035.GA17831@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:45:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20021111234035.GA17831@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> (Jonathon McKitrick's message of "Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:40:35 +0000") Message-ID: Lines: 31 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathon McKitrick writes: > On Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 03:41:38PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > | In other words: always specify libraries at the end of the compiler or > | linker command line. > So why allow putting them at the beginning, where mistakes like this can > happen? Is that ever useful? Would it be wrong to 'assume' all libraries > be linked after all object files? It is conceivable that a high-level application framework would define main and require the developer to define some other entry point which main would then call. In that case you'd have to put the library that contains main first. The point is that there is no real difference between foo.c, foo.s, foo.o, foo.a, -lfoo etc., they're just different ways of telling the compiler where to find the objects your program consists of (in the first two cases it has to create the object itself from source code). The only thing special about -lfoo is that it tells the compiler to look for libfoo.a or libfoo.so in the linker path and use the first one it finds. You could use /usr/local/lib/libfoo.so instead of -lfoo and it would work just as well. Also, if some symbols your program needs are defined in more than one of the objects listed on the linker command line, the ordering becomes very important because it determines which version of the symbol is used (unless one is strong and all the others are weak, in which case the strong version is used) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 4:49:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C1537B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 04:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (external.osdn.org.ua [212.40.34.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757AD43E3B for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 04:49:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (never@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gACCnNTP094174; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:49:33 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: (from never@localhost) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gACCnC3i094173; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:49:12 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:49:11 +0200 From: Alexandr Kovalenko To: Terry Lambert Cc: Larry Sica , Rob , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021112124911.GB93224@nevermind.kiev.ua> References: <5400863E-EEA5-11D6-B14E-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> <3DC45241.6EAED03@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DC45241.6EAED03@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Terry Lambert! On Sat, Nov 02, 2002 at 02:31:29PM -0800, you wrote: > > > OK, one more try, like Lindows: Bindows > > Dindows? > Windex? Windaq or ... FreeBSD 5.0 "Yummy" :) -- NEVE-RIPE Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group http://uafug.org.ua/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 4:54:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4EA37B401; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 04:54:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (external.osdn.org.ua [212.40.34.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1094443E4A; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 04:54:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (never@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gACCqwTP094307; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:52:58 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: (from never@localhost) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gACCqppq094306; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:52:51 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:52:51 +0200 From: Alexandr Kovalenko To: John Baldwin Cc: Julian Elischer , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -current marcketting name? Message-ID: <20021112125251.GC93224@nevermind.kiev.ua> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, John Baldwin! On Sun, Nov 03, 2002 at 05:15:55PM -0500, you wrote: > > SO ok, we need a good marketting name for 5.0.. [dd] > 5.0-XP (apologies to peter@) FreeBSD 5.0-XP Home Edition :) -- NEVE-RIPE Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group http://uafug.org.ua/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 9:35:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9AC737B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:35:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2353E43E4A for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gACHZWc15921 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:35:32 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gACHZWO18400 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:35:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gACHZSX18393 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:35:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DD13BE2.8000902@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:35:30 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: LDAP Admin? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What are you FreeBSD admins using to administer OpenLDAP directories? Command line tools? Scripts? GUI's? Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 11: 2:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18FD37B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC7E43E3B for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:02:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0174.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.174] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18BgIk-0001oS-00; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:02:19 -0800 Message-ID: <3DD14FE5.7DAC9339@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:00:53 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LDAP Admin? References: <3DD13BE2.8000902@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > What are you FreeBSD admins using to administer OpenLDAP directories? > Command line tools? Scripts? GUI's? PHP. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 11:47:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582C937B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E2043E3B for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:47:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gACJlic19264; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:47:44 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gACJliR27291; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:47:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gACJleX27276; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:47:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DD15ADF.7070600@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:47:43 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LDAP Admin? References: <3DD13BE2.8000902@centtech.com> <3DD14FE5.7DAC9339@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > Eric Anderson wrote: > >>What are you FreeBSD admins using to administer OpenLDAP directories? >>Command line tools? Scripts? GUI's? > > > PHP. A prebuilt app written in PHP, or a custom app that you wrote? If prebuilt, what is it? Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 14:28:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF4A37B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3652043E3B for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:28:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0050.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.50] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18BjWL-0005mk-00; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:28:33 -0800 Message-ID: <3DD18044.A928D4AD@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:27:16 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LDAP Admin? References: <3DD13BE2.8000902@centtech.com> <3DD14FE5.7DAC9339@mindspring.com> <3DD15ADF.7070600@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > Eric Anderson wrote: > > > >>What are you FreeBSD admins using to administer OpenLDAP directories? > >>Command line tools? Scripts? GUI's? > > > > > > PHP. > > A prebuilt app written in PHP, or a custom app that you wrote? > > If prebuilt, what is it? There's a prebuilt application, available under GPL; it is in the OpenLDAP list archives, and is posted every once in a while. I believe it's also in the "FAQ-o-matic" (I *hate* those things). I personally use an account sign-up and administration tool which I wrote, and which is application specific. In general, LDAP does not expect people to treat it like a relational database. If you wanted a database, you would be using a relational database. LDAP expects to be used like a WORM drive: changed exceedingly rarely, but read frequently (like a telephone book or any other directory service). Many LDAP-based services perform manual imports of data once or twice a month, for their entire operational lifetime. What are you trying to do? Maybe you would be better off with a relational database, instead of a hierarchical database? If you plan on writing it often enough to need an administration tool (you can read an LDAP database using "ldap://" URI's and a Netscape browser), then you are probably using the wrong tool for the job. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 15: 1:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB8837B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56BA43E7B for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:01:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gACN1bc24654; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:01:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gACN1bL11700; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:01:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gACN1XX11693; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:01:33 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DD18850.2050700@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:01:36 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LDAP Admin? References: <3DD13BE2.8000902@centtech.com> <3DD14FE5.7DAC9339@mindspring.com> <3DD15ADF.7070600@centtech.com> <3DD18044.A928D4AD@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: >>>>What are you FreeBSD admins using to administer OpenLDAP directories? >>>>Command line tools? Scripts? GUI's? > In general, LDAP does not expect people to treat it like a > relational database. If you wanted a database, you would be using > a relational database. LDAP expects to be used like a WORM drive: > changed exceedingly rarely, but read frequently (like a telephone > book or any other directory service). Many LDAP-based services > perform manual imports of data once or twice a month, for their > entire operational lifetime. > What are you trying to do? Maybe you would be better off with > a relational database, instead of a hierarchical database? If > you plan on writing it often enough to need an administration > tool (you can read an LDAP database using "ldap://" URI's and > a Netscape browser), then you are probably using the wrong tool > for the job. I'm using it to replace NIS, and pull my MS network in with my UNIX network for authentication. I just need some simple stuff like pw changing tools, user adding/deleting tools, but was looking for what people use before I start to get it deployed. Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 15:30: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E53737B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:29:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD8643E3B for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0050.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.50] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18BkTj-0007JZ-00; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:29:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3DD18E9D.4ACC4A13@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:28:29 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LDAP Admin? References: <3DD13BE2.8000902@centtech.com> <3DD14FE5.7DAC9339@mindspring.com> <3DD15ADF.7070600@centtech.com> <3DD18044.A928D4AD@mindspring.com> <3DD18850.2050700@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > I'm using it to replace NIS, and pull my MS network in with my UNIX > network for authentication. If you are doing this, then you should know that you can not replace an "Active Directory" server with an OpenLDAP server, and successfully use it to authenticate MS clients. The only think that works now is to deploy an MS Active Directory Server. The reason for this is that the expansion Kerberos ticket ID field that everyone bitched about Microsoft using and then not documenting so that no one else could build a server, only clients, contains a 32 bit integer which is a key Id field for doing a lookup of a specific Active Directory record. Basically: Microsoft has successfully locked other people out of the server market by refusing to document this. Last I heard, Luke Howard had done some work on this for Samba, but I have not heard anything lately about it. But the Samba community is where you will see anything, first. As far as integrating MS clients to UNIX servers, that's a different matter. Do a web search for "NIS GINA"; it's a client authentication package, which allows an NIS server to be used to authenticate MS clients. > I just need some simple stuff like pw changing tools, user > adding/deleting tools, but was looking for what people use before I > start to get it deployed. Generally, you edit a template and import it via "ldapadd", or you use PHPLDAP to add a record, after filling out the fields. For passwords, they are generally stored as ciphertext, with the cipher type embedded at the front of the ciphertext, in braces, e.g. "{md5}xxyyzz", etc.. In other words, the data contents are as generally exposed as NIS data contents, so a dictionary attack is a possibility. The normal way of dealing with this is to use an SSL connection to connect to the LDAP server, and to give each user ownership or at least write access, to their own directory entry, and then *only* over the SSL, replace the contents of the password field. For this to work, you have to embed the ciphertext type, per the above, as part of the plaintex data that you send over the wire in the update. If you look at the LDAP "FAQ-o-matic", there are pointers to tools that will enable you to do this... against an OpenLDAP server. If you need to do this against a Windows Active Directory Server... you are screwed: you have to use the Windows tools to do the job. Normally, Microsoft recommends that you install all Microsoft software, pay them huge fees, and forget UNIX. If you install Microsoft servers, then they will grudgingly support UNIX clients, and provide the ability to provide, with some effort, and the "UNIX Integration" stuff installed on an NT server, the ability for UNIX users to surf to a web page, and change their UNIX password that way. Forget using the UNIX "passwd" command to change a password on a Microsoft Active Directory Server, unless Luke has done a lot more reverse engineering than I'm aware of him having done. In any case, I'm pretty sure that you will have to manage your user accounts using Microsoft tools, even if you use the "SMB AUTH" PAM module for UNIX authentication: you will still need to use a Windows machine -- or a web server running on a Windows machine -- to change your UNIX passwords, if you do domain authentication. Probably your best bet is to query the Samba community, and potentially, the OpenLDAP community. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 17:36:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728C737B401; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:36:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F024743E42; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #7) id 18BmS8-000Dkb-00; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:36:24 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gAD1aOPe025934; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:36:24 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gAD1aOZI025933; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:36:24 GMT Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:36:24 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with GNUstep apps on FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20021113013624.GA25882@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Scanner: exiscan *18BmS8-000Dkb-00*/VHxsZtBjUQ* (Manchester Computing, University of Manchester) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I am really stumped by this problem. I'm trying out GNUstep apps under FreeBSD 4.7 with XFree86 3.x and the XFree86 4.2 libraries. I've tried Fluxbox and Windowmaker (latest ports). Most, if not all of the GNUstep app windows and menus are unruly. In GNUmail, the app menu won't go away. It stays on top of everything, and will not close, shade, or go below another window. This is the case with every app menu of GNUstep applications. The other apps are even worse. Gomoku only shows a tiny, distorted window in the middle of my screen, which looks like a window and titlebar shrunk down to about one character wide. It will not resize. Does anyone have any ideas? I don't have the first clue what could be wrong, since I've seen the same problem under 2 windowmanagers that are so different, and WindowMaker is supposed to be GNUstep compliant. NOTE: Please CC me, as I am not currently subscribed. Thanks. jm -- My other computer is your windows box. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 20:18:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 046CD37B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E761843E42 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:18:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAD4I0c01924; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:18:00 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gAD4Hx527739; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:17:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (andersonpc [192.168.42.18]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAD4HuX27732; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:17:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DD1D39C.A6E248A6@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:22:52 -0600 From: Eric Anderson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.6.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LDAP Admin? References: <3DD13BE2.8000902@centtech.com> <3DD14FE5.7DAC9339@mindspring.com> <3DD15ADF.7070600@centtech.com> <3DD18044.A928D4AD@mindspring.com> <3DD18850.2050700@centtech.com> <3DD18E9D.4ACC4A13@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > Eric Anderson wrote: > > I'm using it to replace NIS, and pull my MS network in with my UNIX > > network for authentication. > > If you are doing this, then you should know that you can not > replace an "Active Directory" server with an OpenLDAP server, > and successfully use it to authenticate MS clients. The only > think that works now is to deploy an MS Active Directory Server. I don't have an Active Directory server. I have an old NT4 PDC, and I'd like to get rid of that and have a samba PDC with LDAP ties. > As far as integrating MS clients to UNIX servers, that's a > different matter. Do a web search for "NIS GINA"; it's a > client authentication package, which allows an NIS server to > be used to authenticate MS clients. > It's more the other way around for me - I have several hundred Linux machines, a hundred or so Solaris boxes, FreeBSD for all the good stuff, etc. I'd like to make all the boxes use LDAP, and rid myself of NIS. > > > I just need some simple stuff like pw changing tools, user > > adding/deleting tools, but was looking for what people use before I > > start to get it deployed. > > Generally, you edit a template and import it via "ldapadd", > or you use PHPLDAP to add a record, after filling out the fields. > > For passwords, they are generally stored as ciphertext, with > the cipher type embedded at the front of the ciphertext, in > braces, e.g. "{md5}xxyyzz", etc.. In other words, the data > contents are as generally exposed as NIS data contents, so a > dictionary attack is a possibility. I know about this.. this is a pain I'll have to deal with going from NIS to LDAP, but it's worth the effort I think. > Probably your best bet is to query the Samba community, and > potentially, the OpenLDAP community. Hmm.. ok.. you're right.. I find the FreeBSD community to be much more "up on the times" compared to some other groups. Thanks Terry.. Eric To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 12 23: 1:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9F3E37B401 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A42A43E4A for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:01:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0207.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.207] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18BrX7-00065x-00; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:01:53 -0800 Message-ID: <3DD1F864.FFE1BAD5@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:59:48 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LDAP Admin? References: <3DD13BE2.8000902@centtech.com> <3DD14FE5.7DAC9339@mindspring.com> <3DD15ADF.7070600@centtech.com> <3DD18044.A928D4AD@mindspring.com> <3DD18850.2050700@centtech.com> <3DD18E9D.4ACC4A13@mindspring.com> <3DD1D39C.A6E248A6@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson wrote: > > Probably your best bet is to query the Samba community, and > > potentially, the OpenLDAP community. > > Hmm.. ok.. you're right.. I find the FreeBSD community to be much more > "up on the times" compared to some other groups. > > Thanks Terry.. No problem. Kurt Zelinga knows what he's doing; I've found the OpenLDAP community to be very helpful; I used to be much more active in it (if you look at their CVS tree, the "FreeBSD patches" they imported immediately after the UMich code ar actually the 120K of patches that I put together). Some people have dropped out, or only look in occasionally these days (like myself), but that's mostly because you don't have to screw around if the code already works. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 13 14:36:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF59037B401 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from in.flite.net (in.flite.net [207.203.36.254]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D5A43E6E for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:36:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwinter@flite.net) Received: from mwinter (fla126.us-it.net [208.60.183.126]) by in.flite.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id gADMjTo84549 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:45:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwinter@flite.net) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:45:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200211132245.gADMjTo84549@in.flite.net> From: Target Funding Group To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Charity Auction Fundraising Ideas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org We have been providing non-profits with auction ideas for 15 years Now you are cordially invited to share in those concepts with our FREE monthly email newsletter, "Charity Auctions." Join 4,200 fellow fundraisers who profit from our ideas. The newsletter was featured in "Nonprofit World", "Volunteer Insider", "Matrix News" "Museum Marketing Tips" and "Inside Private School Management". Sample issues include: o Closing Your Auction Quickly o The Need for Values & the IRS o What Sells at an Auction o Obtaining Donations o Software options o Bid Sheets: Two part or One? o Baskets! Baskets! To subscribe to our FREE newsletter, please send your email-address, name, organization and full mailing address to mailto:mwinter@flite.net The newsletter is FREE to all non-profit organizations and your email address or mailing address will never be given to any other party. If you find this mail offensive in any way, please delete it, and we apologize for any inconvenience that we might have caused. To be removed send a blank email mailto:mwinter@flite.net with Remove in the subject line. John & Maureen Winter, Editors Target Funding Group, Inc. Successful Auctions for Non-profits Visit our Website:HTTP://www.benefitauction.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 15 2:49:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B973937B401 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:49:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rockwelldatacorp.com (108.Red-80-33-216.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.33.216.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D33043E42 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:49:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@rockwelldatacorp.com) From: "Jon F Federhenn" To: Subject: SAP specialists required for Europe. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:49:15 +0100 Reply-To: "Jon F Federhenn" Message-Id: <20021115104951.3D33043E42@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello I have a couple of contacts who are in Germany and Switzerland who are both looking for SAP people for some new projects. They need people in various areas and they do not need to be German speakers or have permits for CH. The companies will look at people as long as they have good experience in an area of SAP. I also know a few German speakers looking for permanent work in Europe and hence if anyone knows of any positions I will forward them on the details. Please drop me a mail if of interest. Kind regards Jon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 15 3:31:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FE237B401 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1598143E6E for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:31:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from probe-1037354278-1037359912-freebsd-chat=freebsd.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com) X-eGroups-Return: probe-1037354278-1037359912-freebsd-chat=freebsd.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.176] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2002 11:31:52 -0000 Message-ID: Date: 15 Nov 2002 11:31:52 -0000 From: Yahoo!Groups Reply-To: confirm-unbounce-1037354278-77923465-5536@yahoogroups.co.uk To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Please reactivate your Yahoo! Groups account MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, You belong to one or more email groups provided by Yahoo! Groups (uk.groups.yahoo.com). Email from these groups can be recognized by looking for a group name in the message Subject line, like [pet-owners] or [music-fans]. Recently, messages sent to you from Yahoo! Groups have been returned to us as undeliverable. To prevent any problems with your email service, we have temporarily turned your Yahoo! Groups account OFF. If you are reading this message now, the delivery problem appears to be fixed. However, we won't know that the problem is fixed until you tell us. To turn your Yahoo! Groups account ON: - Please REPLY to this message. Send that reply back to us without changing anything. OR - While connected to the Internet, click on the following Web link (or copy and paste it into your Web browser and hit the RETURN key): http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/unbounce?adj=77923465,5536&p=1037354278 Once we get a response from you, we will turn your Yahoo! Groups account back ON, and you will begin to receive messages from your groups again. After you respond, you can read any messages you might have missed while your account was off by visiting: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/mygroups Thank you for using Yahoo! Groups! Yahoo! Groups Customer Care Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 15 11: 3:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8265E37B401; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:03:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt (smtp.netcabo.pt [212.113.174.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6A943E4A; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:03:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lneves@netcabo.pt) Received: from wasp.netcabo.pt ([213.22.96.201]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:01:15 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Luis Neves To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD 5.0 CD cover Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:03:08 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200211151903.08336.lneves@netcabo.pt> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2002 19:01:15.0917 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F94BBD0:01C28CD9] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all, Last month I came across some cool Chuck images in a FreeBSD korean site: So I borrowed on of the images and asked a designer friend of mine to mak= e a=20 CD Cover for the upcoming 5.0 release. You all can see what I am talking about here: PDF: http://pwp.netcabo.pt/lneves/FreeBSD_CD_Cover/FreeBSD50_CD_Cover.pdf PNG: http://pwp.netcabo.pt/lneves/FreeBSD_CD_Cover/FreeBSD50_front.png http://pwp.netcabo.pt/lneves/FreeBSD_CD_Cover/FreeBSD50_back.png (I have other formats available, Encapsulated PostScript and TIFF, if the= re is=20 interest in those formats i will put them online also.) All credit goes to for making the original image, and= to=20 my friend Luis Alves for making the cover. I hope you like it. Best regards, Luis Neves To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 15 11:33:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D4937B401; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:33:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from m20.unixathome.org (m20.unixathome.org [66.11.168.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F028B43E4A; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:33:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: by m20.unixathome.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E24C07A1C; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:33:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m20.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2592C1E8E; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:33:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:33:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@m20.unixathome.org To: Luis Neves Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org, Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.0 CD cover In-Reply-To: <200211151903.08336.lneves@netcabo.pt> Message-ID: <20021115143028.K19443-100000@m20.unixathome.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Luis Neves wrote: > > Hello all, > > Last month I came across some cool Chuck images in a FreeBSD korean site: > That's Beastie... http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/index.html > So I borrowed on of the images and asked a designer friend of mine to make a > CD Cover for the upcoming 5.0 release. > You all can see what I am talking about here: > > PDF: > http://pwp.netcabo.pt/lneves/FreeBSD_CD_Cover/FreeBSD50_CD_Cover.pdf I like that. but but but where are the tennis shoes? Nice work. Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 15 11:47: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46FC37B401 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:47:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FB143E88 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.226.43] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id AEAE6BB1027C; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:44:46 -0600 Message-ID: <00ec01c28cde$f9256100$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: Cc: Subject: Fw: FreeBSD 5.0 CD cover Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:41:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From: "Dan Langille" > To: "Luis Neves" > Cc: ; > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 1:33 PM > Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.0 CD cover > I like that. but but but where are the tennis shoes? > > Nice work. Thanks. > Yeah, he's got to be a "speed-daemon......" Kevin Kinsey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 15 12:56:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F54B37B406; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:56:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.netcabo.pt (smtp.netcabo.pt [212.113.174.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE3143E4A; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:56:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lneves@netcabo.pt) Received: from wasp.netcabo.pt ([213.22.96.201]) by smtp.netcabo.pt with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:53:58 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Luis Neves To: Dan Langille Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.0 CD cover Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:55:51 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org, References: <20021115143028.K19443-100000@m20.unixathome.org> In-Reply-To: <20021115143028.K19443-100000@m20.unixathome.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200211152055.51771.lneves@netcabo.pt> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2002 20:53:58.0525 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E68D2D0:01C28CE9] Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday 15 November 2002 19:33, Dan Langille wrote: > That's Beastie... > > http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/index.html Oopss, sorry... my bad > I like that. but but but where are the tennis shoes? =46rom looking at the star on his chest I would think that Beastie is dis= guised=20 as a "Sheriff" ence the cowboy boots :-) > > Nice work. Thanks. Glad you like it. Best regards, Luis Neves To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 15 14:35:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA4E37B401 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:35:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail0.epfl.ch (mail0.epfl.ch [128.178.50.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BECD743E42 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:35:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from takeofflist99@excite.com) Received: (qmail 2263 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 21:05:21 -0000 Received: from silentsoftpc1.epfl.ch (128.179.59.2) by mail0.epfl.ch with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 21:05:21 -0000 Received: from smtp0422.mail.yahoo.com (www.gamcousa.com [38.220.208.9] (may be forged)) by silentsoftpc1.epfl.ch (8.11.6/8.8.7) with SMTP id gAFLJiC16899; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:19:44 +0100 Message-Id: <200211152119.gAFLJiC16899@silentsoftpc1.epfl.ch> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:05:05 -0600 From: takeofflist99@excite.com X-Priority: 3 To: chasman@theriver.com Subject: Central Illinois Chevy Dealer Town of 4000 28 deals - 2 days Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hot new direct mail piece brings in 28 deals on a Friday and Saturday. 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 15 21: 8:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3568A37B401; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (12-232-220-15.client.attbi.com [12.232.220.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F3343E77; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAG58P2q016734; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:08:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id gAG58LXP016731; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:08:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:08:21 -0800 From: David Schultz To: Luis Neves Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.0 CD cover Message-ID: <20021116050821.GA16666@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: Luis Neves , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200211151903.08336.lneves@netcabo.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200211151903.08336.lneves@netcabo.pt> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Luis Neves : > Last month I came across some cool Chuck images in a FreeBSD korean site: > > > So I borrowed on of the images and asked a designer friend of mine to make a > CD Cover for the upcoming 5.0 release. Nice! It's ``buddy Beastie''. George Carlin would be proud. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 16 1:15: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D21637B401 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:14:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from priv-edtnes14-hme0.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C55243E4A for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:14:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mandison@telusplanet.net) Received: from tower ([142.173.174.132]) by priv-edtnes14-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20021116091452.DYLG1821.priv-edtnes14-hme0.telusplanet.net@tower> for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 02:14:52 -0700 Message-ID: <005501c28d50$a9160d50$84aead8e@tower> From: "mandison" To: References: <200211151903.08336.lneves@netcabo.pt> <20021116050821.GA16666@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.0 CD cover Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 02:15:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org There's sort of a Buddy Christ look to him. Red is great, isn't it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Schultz" To: "Luis Neves" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 10:08 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.0 CD cover : Thus spake Luis Neves : : > Last month I came across some cool Chuck images in a FreeBSD korean site: : > : > : > So I borrowed on of the images and asked a designer friend of mine to make a : > CD Cover for the upcoming 5.0 release. : : Nice! It's ``buddy Beastie''. George Carlin would be proud. : : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org : with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 16 17:59:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0C937B401; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from spork.pantherdragon.org (spork.pantherdragon.org [206.29.168.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0D843EA3; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:59:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmp@pantherdragon.org) Received: from sparx.techno.pagans (12-224-208-117.client.attbi.com [12.224.208.117]) by spork.pantherdragon.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189181005F; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pantherdragon.org (speck.techno.pagans [172.21.42.2]) by sparx.techno.pagans (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F0EAB75; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:59:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3DD6F7E9.7090506@pantherdragon.org> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:59:05 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Hoskin Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" , Hununu , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? References: <20021117115616.T301-100000@extortion.peterh.dropbear.id.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [redirecting to -chat due to charter alignment issues] Peter Hoskin wrote: > STABLE is still a development branch. The name is misleading. If I were > you, I'd install & run release. I've taken to using beta/alpha to describe -stable and -current. It seems to get the point across why -stable and -current aren't intended for mainstream use and what it can and usually does take to play in those parts of the tree. Personally, I think the BSDs many other projects need to make use of the more common alpha/beta terminology. I'm not asking to rename whole sections of CVS, the effort to useful work ratio is too low, but making this distinction to people in conversation would help significantly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 16 18:23:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8F037B401 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:23:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gbronline.com (mail.gbronline.com [12.145.226.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0E543E4A for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:23:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from DaleCoportable [12.145.236.122] by mail.gbronline.com (SMTPD32-7.13) id AD0F6E9F01E4; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:21:03 -0600 Message-ID: <006601c28ddf$604010f0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." To: "Lefteris Tsintjelis" , "Peter Hoskin" Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" , "Hununu" , References: <20021117115616.T301-100000@extortion.peterh.dropbear.id.au> <3DD6EEA0.AD524CA2@ene.asda.gr> Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:16:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: "Lefteris Tsintjelis" To: "Peter Hoskin" Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" ; "Hununu" ; Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:19 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? > It sure is misleading. Why is it called -stable then? You would expect > to stand up to its name. > > Regards, > Lefteris Tsintjelis > It depends on your point of view. -CURRENT is noted as occasionally being broken to the point that it won't even build. The RELENG_4 branch (almost) always will. From a -CURRENT point of view, RELENG_4 is "stable." However, to someone looking from the other direction, I can see where it might be 'misleading.' Perhaps it should have been called "FUTURE" and "CURRENT", instead. But I'm not sure that any of the core team or committers would consider themselves 'prophets.' ;-) I'm just a guy who 'uses' -STABLE. None of the opinions herein are the opinions of anyone but me. Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 16 19:28:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E8837B401 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59CB043E77 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:28:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D078A1B76; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:28:30 -0400 (AST) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:28:30 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: Lefteris Tsintjelis , Peter Hoskin , Hununu , Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? In-Reply-To: <006601c28ddf$604010f0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> Message-ID: <20021116232242.S23359-100000@hub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > From: "Lefteris Tsintjelis" > To: "Peter Hoskin" > Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" ; "Hununu" > ; > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? > > > > It sure is misleading. Why is it called -stable then? You would > expect > > to stand up to its name. > > > > Regards, > > Lefteris Tsintjelis > > > > It depends on your point of view. -CURRENT is noted as occasionally > being broken to the point that it won't even build. The RELENG_4 > branch (almost) always will. From a -CURRENT point of view, > RELENG_4 is "stable." > > However, to someone looking from the other direction, I can see > where it might be 'misleading.' Perhaps it should have been called > "FUTURE" and "CURRENT", instead. But I'm not sure that any > of the core team or committers would consider themselves 'prophets.' > ;-) Occasional problems with -STABLE I've always expected ... I don't run a typical server ... hell, I had a problem for awhile there where I was hitting the edge of the KVM, causing it to crash ... but, I swear, STABLE's stability has been going down, not improving ... to the point where I had one machine running a Sept10th kernel that would run for a few weeks in a stretch, but a newer kernel I'd be lucky to keep alive for 24-48hrs ... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 16 20: 5:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3873937B401 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (external.osdn.org.ua [212.40.34.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE90743E42 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:05:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: from kurush.osdn.org.ua (never@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAH44mTP016487; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 06:04:48 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from never@kurush.osdn.org.ua) Received: (from never@localhost) by kurush.osdn.org.ua (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gAH44ld7016486; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 06:04:47 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 06:04:46 +0200 From: Alexandr Kovalenko To: "Marc G. Fournier" Cc: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , Lefteris Tsintjelis , Peter Hoskin , Hununu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? Message-ID: <20021117040446.GA15886@nevermind.kiev.ua> References: <006601c28ddf$604010f0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <20021116232242.S23359-100000@hub.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021116232242.S23359-100000@hub.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Marc G. Fournier! On Sat, Nov 16, 2002 at 11:28:30PM -0400, you wrote: > > > It sure is misleading. Why is it called -stable then? You would > > expect > > > to stand up to its name. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lefteris Tsintjelis > > > > > > > It depends on your point of view. -CURRENT is noted as occasionally > > being broken to the point that it won't even build. The RELENG_4 > > branch (almost) always will. From a -CURRENT point of view, > > RELENG_4 is "stable." > > > > However, to someone looking from the other direction, I can see > > where it might be 'misleading.' Perhaps it should have been called > > "FUTURE" and "CURRENT", instead. But I'm not sure that any > > of the core team or committers would consider themselves 'prophets.' > > ;-) > > Occasional problems with -STABLE I've always expected ... I don't run a > typical server ... hell, I had a problem for awhile there where I was > hitting the edge of the KVM, causing it to crash ... but, I swear, > STABLE's stability has been going down, not improving ... to the point > where I had one machine running a Sept10th kernel that would run for a few > weeks in a stretch, but a newer kernel I'd be lucky to keep alive for > 24-48hrs ... http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ -> "The Cutting Edge" -- NEVE-RIPE Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group http://uafug.org.ua/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 16 22:11: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28FC237B401 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (12-232-220-15.client.attbi.com [12.232.220.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542F043E4A for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:11:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from HAL9000.homeunix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAH6Aa2q023348; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:10:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Received: (from das@localhost) by HAL9000.homeunix.com (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id gAH6AZMb023347; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:10:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:10:35 -0800 From: David Schultz To: "Marc G. Fournier" Cc: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , Lefteris Tsintjelis , Peter Hoskin , Hununu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? Message-ID: <20021117061035.GA23317@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Marc G. Fournier" , "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , Lefteris Tsintjelis , Peter Hoskin , Hununu , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <006601c28ddf$604010f0$fa00a8c0@DaleCoportable> <20021116232242.S23359-100000@hub.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021116232242.S23359-100000@hub.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Marc G. Fournier : > Occasional problems with -STABLE I've always expected ... I don't run a > typical server ... hell, I had a problem for awhile there where I was > hitting the edge of the KVM, causing it to crash ... but, I swear, > STABLE's stability has been going down, not improving ... to the point > where I had one machine running a Sept10th kernel that would run for a few > weeks in a stretch, but a newer kernel I'd be lucky to keep alive for > 24-48hrs ... Okay, so you're getting bitten by a bug. Have you tried compiling the kernel with debugging symbols and posting a backtrace when it crashes? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 16 23:37:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F9137B401 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C002B43E75 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.49.215.141]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 170838A1A6B; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:37:22 -0400 (AST) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:37:22 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: David Schultz Cc: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , Lefteris Tsintjelis , Peter Hoskin , Hununu , Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? In-Reply-To: <20021117061035.GA23317@HAL9000.homeunix.com> Message-ID: <20021117033109.G23359-100000@hub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 16 Nov 2002, David Schultz wrote: > Thus spake Marc G. Fournier : > > Occasional problems with -STABLE I've always expected ... I don't run a > > typical server ... hell, I had a problem for awhile there where I was > > hitting the edge of the KVM, causing it to crash ... but, I swear, > > STABLE's stability has been going down, not improving ... to the point > > where I had one machine running a Sept10th kernel that would run for a few > > weeks in a stretch, but a newer kernel I'd be lucky to keep alive for > > 24-48hrs ... > > Okay, so you're getting bitten by a bug. Have you tried compiling > the kernel with debugging symbols and posting a backtrace when it > crashes? Yes, I post them to -stable whenever I can get one ... the core files themselves are 4gig in size (compresses to 1gig), but if anyone wants to look at one, they are most welcome ... And, as mentioned previously, I just downgraded everything to RELENG_4_7, and that lasted ~10hrs or so before the first crash ... is there some other information that I can provide? (kgdb) where #0 0xc959b256 in ?? () #1 0xc013ec50 in boot (howto=256) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:223 #2 0xc013f375 in panic (fmt=0xc02111f9 "%s") at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:595 #3 0xc01e4f15 in trap_fatal (frame=0xf46e4e18, eva=4048397648) at /usr/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c:974 #4 0xc01e4b81 in trap_pfault (frame=0xf46e4e18, usermode=0, eva=4048397648) at /usr/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c:867 #5 0xc01e46db in trap (frame={tf_fs = 24, tf_es = -194117616, tf_ds = -1071972336, tf_edi = 0, tf_esi = -158666368, tf_ebp = -194097564, tf_isp = -194097596, tf_ebx = -247896864, tf_edx = -246569648, tf_ecx = 16777217, tf_eax = 0, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = -1071953732, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66118, tf_esp = -193136816, tf_ss = -160643136}) at /usr/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c:466 #6 0xc01b48bc in vm_object_deallocate (object=0xf13964e0) at /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_object.c:386 #7 0xc01b1c03 in vm_map_entry_delete (map=0xf66cc7c0, entry=0xf47cf750) at /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_map.c:1829 #8 0xc01b1d85 in vm_map_delete (map=0xf66cc7c0, start=0, end=3217031168) at /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_map.c:1932 #9 0xc01b1e12 in vm_map_remove (map=0xf66cc7c0, start=0, end=3217031168) at /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_map.c:1957 #10 0xc0137248 in exit1 (p=0xf47be6c0, rv=0) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_exit.c:217 #11 0xc0137018 in exit1 (p=0xf47be6c0, rv=-878618816) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_exit.c:103 #12 0xc01e5251 in syscall2 (frame={tf_fs = 47, tf_es = 47, tf_ds = 47, tf_edi = 0, tf_esi = -1, tf_ebp = -1077937844, tf_isp = -194097196, tf_ebx = 672716588, tf_edx = 672716000, tf_ecx = -1077937460, tf_eax = 1, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = 672397204, tf_cs = 31, tf_eflags = 647, tf_esp = -1077937888, tf_ss = 47}) at /usr/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c:1175 #13 0xc01d297b in Xint0x80_syscall () cannot read proc at 0 (kgdb) up 5 #5 0xc01e46db in trap (frame={tf_fs = 24, tf_es = -194117616, tf_ds = -1071972336, tf_edi = 0, tf_esi = -158666368, tf_ebp = -194097564, tf_isp = -194097596, tf_ebx = -247896864, tf_edx = -246569648, tf_ecx = 16777217, tf_eax = 0, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 2, tf_eip = -1071953732, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66118, tf_esp = -193136816, tf_ss = -160643136}) at /usr/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c:466 466 (void) trap_pfault(&frame, FALSE, eva); (kgdb) frame frame->tf_ebp frame->tf_eip cannot read proc at 0 (kgdb) venus# ps -M vmcore.jupiter -N kernel.debug -aux | wc -l 1585 venus# pstat -s -M vmcore.jupiter -N kernel.debug Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/amrd0s1b 524160 3100 521060 1% Interleaved /dev/#C133:0x20009 2621312 2924 2618388 0% Interleaved Total 3145472 6024 3139448 0% venus# To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 16 23:39:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 837AE37B401 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:39:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from phalanx.trit.org (phalanx.trit.org [63.198.170.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122C843E3B for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dima@trit.org) Received: from sparkie.trit.org (sparkie.trit.org [192.168.4.16]) by phalanx.trit.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3614C1A462; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:39:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from dima@localhost) by sparkie.trit.org (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id gAH7dUm11478; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:39:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: sparkie.trit.org: dima set sender to dima@trit.org using -f Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:39:29 +0000 From: Dima Dorfman To: Lefteris Tsintjelis Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? Message-ID: <20021117073929.GC5793@trit.org> References: <20021117115616.T301-100000@extortion.peterh.dropbear.id.au> <3DD6EEA0.AD524CA2@ene.asda.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DD6EEA0.AD524CA2@ene.asda.gr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote: > It sure is misleading. Why is it called -stable then? You would expect > to stand up to its name. I think the name "STABLE" comes from stability in terms of the API and ABI, not stability as reliability. That seems to be a much more reasonable goal--not to say that reliability shouldn't be goal, but that a development branch as -STABLE is should be expected to be unreliable at times (this has been mentioned before). The API and ABI in -STABLE are actually stable, unlike in -CURRENT . . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message