Name Resolution Configuration

FreeBSD offers advanced networking, performance, security and compatibility features today which are still missing in other operating systems, even some of the best commercial ones.

Powerful Internet solutions

Industrial strength Networking

FreeBSD makes an ideal Internet or Intranet server. It provides robust network services under the heaviest loads and uses memory efficiently to maintain good response - times for thousands of simultaneous user processes. Visit our + time for thousands of simultaneous user processes. Visit our gallery for examples of - FreeBSD powered applications and services.

Run a huge variety of - applications

FreeBSD has access to hundreds of applications +

The quality of FreeBSD combined with today's low-cost, high-speed PC hardware makes FreeBSD a very economical alternative to commercial UNIX workstations. It is well-suited - for a great number of both desktop and server - applications.

Easy to install

FreeBSD can be installed from a variety of media including To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 13:50: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5142C37B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JLo2P08015; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:50:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202192150.g1JLo2P08015@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: docs/35098: handbook NFS Reply-To: Tom Rhodes Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35098; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, Michael Lucas Cc: Subject: Re: docs/35098: handbook NFS Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:50:45 -0500 Noone has stood up yet... hehe, This ones mine (if noone minds of course) ;) -- Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes www.Pittgoth.com Gothic Liberation Front www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 13:50: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F6037B402 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:50:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JLo3808030; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:50:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:50:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202192150.g1JLo3808030@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Michael Lucas Subject: Re: docs/35098: handbook NFS Reply-To: Michael Lucas Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35098; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Michael Lucas To: Tom Rhodes Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/35098: handbook NFS Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:43:43 -0500 It's yours. Since I'm trying to create more "copy-aware" -doc contributors, I'm going to pay close attention to the patch. You have been warned. I suspect this would be easier to discuss in smaller patches, rather than one patch-o-doom. On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 04:50:45PM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > Noone has stood up yet... hehe, This ones mine (if noone minds of course) ;) > > > -- > Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes > www.Pittgoth.com Gothic Liberation Front > www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 13:52:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D96C37B402 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from bmah.dyndns.org ([12.233.149.189]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020219215248.KBXW2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@bmah.dyndns.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:52:48 +0000 Received: (from bmah@localhost) by bmah.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JLqmU06263; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:52:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200202192152.g1JLqmU06263@bmah.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Tom Rhodes Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/32578: [PATCH] for doc review In-reply-to: <200202192100.g1JL02q96051@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <200202192100.g1JL02q96051@freefall.freebsd.org> Comments: In-reply-to Tom Rhodes message dated "Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:00:02 -0800." From: "Bruce A. Mah" Reply-To: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:52:48 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If memory serves me right, Tom Rhodes wrote: > The following reply was made to PR docs/32578; it has been noted by GNATS. > > From: Tom Rhodes > To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org > Cc: > Subject: Re: docs/32578: [PATCH] for doc review > Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:54:42 -0500 (EST) Hi Tom-- My apologies in advance. I'm going to be brutally honest here, in hopes of making future doc PRs (from everybody, not just you) more effective. I'm going to say why I think a patch like this one is very difficult for a committer to work with. A subject line such as "[PATCH] for doc review" is all but useless because unless someone on the list knows exactly what docs/32578 refers to, they're probably just going to ignore it. If you can, keep the original subject line or some variation thereof (you must have had this information at one point). (To save a bunch of people having to look it up, the original PR had to do with changing the wording of the top-level page on the Web site.) > diff -ru en.old/index.xsl en/index.xsl > --- en.old/index.xsl Tue Feb 19 15:28:13 2002 > +++ en/index.xsl Tue Feb 19 15:52:40 2002 > @@ -224,7 +224,7 @@ > >

FreeBSD is an advanced operating system for > Intel ia32 compatible, DEC Alpha, and PC-98 architectures. > - It is derived from BSD UNIX, the version of UNIX developed at > + It is derived from BSD UNIX, the version of UNIX developed at This is a whitespace change. Please don't mix whitespace and content changes in the same diff. It makes it hard for translators, as well as people who are actually trying to review your change. > the University of California, Berkeley. > It is developed and maintained by > @@ -233,33 +233,36 @@ > platforms are in > various stages of development.

Cutting edge features

FreeBSD has cutting edge features >

FreeBSD offers advanced networking, performance, security > and compatibility > features > today which are still missing in other operating systems, > even some of the best commercial ones.

Powerful Internet solutions

Industrial strength Networking h2> > Please make capitalization consistent. Either write "Industrial Strength Networking" or "Industrial strength networking". Is there some reason you wanted to change the wording? >

FreeBSD makes an ideal > Internet or Intranet > server. It provides robust network services under the heaviest > loads and uses memory efficiently to maintain good response > - times for thousands of simultaneous user processes. Visit our > + time for thousands of simultaneous user processes. Visit our > gallery for examples of > - FreeBSD powered applications and services.

> - > -

Run a huge variety of > - applications

FreeBSD has access to hundreds of appli > cations > +

The quality of FreeBSD combined with today's low-cost, > high-speed PC hardware makes FreeBSD a very economical > alternative to commercial UNIX workstations. It is well-suited > - for a great number of both desktop and server > - applications.

Easy to install

FreeBSD can be installed from a variety of media including Yes, it looks like I'm nitpicking. But if we as a project want to be taken seriously, we at least have to keep grammatical errors and misspellings out of our top-level Web page. This means *use* ispell, and *proofread* changes, before sending them in. To be honest, if I have the choice of working on a patch that needs to be fixed before applying and one that doesn't, I'll pick the latter almost any day. Thanks, Bruce. PS. Yes, it took me longer to write this message than it would have to fix the patch. I think of this as an investment which hopefully will pay off in future, high-quality PRs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 14: 8:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6C037B400; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:08:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (lcl234.zbzoom.net [208.236.36.234]) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1JMAfv18407; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:10:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3C72CF72.7040300@pittgoth.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:19:30 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes Reply-To: darklogik@pittgoth.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20011221 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/32578: [PATCH] for doc review References: <200202192100.g1JL02q96051@freefall.freebsd.org> <200202192152.g1JLqmU06263@bmah.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bruce A. Mah wrote: > If memory serves me right, Tom Rhodes wrote: Ok, i'll take another look at this ;) A few of the 'mistakes' are because some text was removed, reworded, and/or changed. I've seen you point out various ``nitpicks'' before with others, no you arn't bothering me with it, in fact thanks for pointing out my mistakes and i'll keep my eyes open in the future. PS: You will see a revised patch later! :) -- Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes www.Pittgoth.com Gothic Liberation Front www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 18:21: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from lists.blarg.net (lists.blarg.net [206.124.128.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E35137B41D; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from thig.blarg.net (thig.blarg.net [206.124.128.18]) by lists.blarg.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC30EBCDF; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.124.139.115]) by thig.blarg.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15959; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:20:47 -0800 Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g1K2N1s00528; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:23:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@blarg.net) To: Michael Lucas Cc: Jay Edwards , Tom Rhodes , bmah@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDCon Doc BoF Notes References: <200202182315.g1INFpc93221@bmah.dyndns.org> <3C719161.5090803@pittgoth.com> <20020219050357.GN42451@jayed.com> <20020218191647.A11924@blackhelicopters.org> From: swear@blarg.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 19 Feb 2002 18:23:00 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20020218191647.A11924@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: Lines: 40 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Lucas writes: > Of course, other suggestions are welcome. This bikeshed is going to > be around a while, I'm afraid. Paper book readers don't care whether book is split into small HOWTO-sized pieces because they'll need to buy big books in any case. Their only concern is how expensive each book is and how many they will need to buy. Trying to divide the current handbook by subject seems to me a useless cause for paper books. Almost everyone would need all the books. The only reasonable division is by detail and that would take much rewriting and duplication of material. Ideally, each topic could have two or three levels of presentation, which could be separated for three (or more for the most detailed (man page?) level) paper books (and made accessible via link for paged digital versions). It sounds like too much work, but except for a simple splitting of the manual into all-needed-by-all parts (maybe with the minor help of segregating networking or other big categories), it seems like the only reasonable scheme. For instance in the "Security" section, the "Kerberos" topic could have a short intro just to let people know why they might want to investigate it further and then referrence the topic as in the "Details" book. Topics would have widely varying coverage in the "Basics" book, as commonly needed by users, but probably influenced by the need to keep the Basics book under some size limit. The organization of the paged digital version (eg, HTML) hardly matters as long as appropriate tables of content and indexes are provided. I'd prefer these not even exist for only the Handbook, but also cover the Articles, FAQ, and all other FDP docs. I hope there will always be a fully-combined ASCII version of the handbook since that's the only one that's easily navigated/searched. I found this to be one of the great advantages over Linux HOWTOs. (Don't ask why I didn't make myself one.) Finally, several people have mentioned that multiple small books would be easier for people (mostly doc people) to deal with. I have little experience here, but it seems to me that Chapters and Articles are the natural chunks that people deal with at any one time, and the number of those grouped into any one book should barely matter. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 19:50:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7029537B417 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K3o2D95303; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:50:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202200350.g1K3o2D95303@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Reply-To: Tom Rhodes Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35098; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@Freebsd.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:49:29 -0500 (EST) Please review this, it has alot of your ideas, but a few of my own tossed in here. I did cover more ground than listed, and have yet to touch the amd part, well, more than the first paragraph hehe -- Tom (darklogik) Rhodes diff -ru handbook.old/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml handbook/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml --- handbook.old/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml Tue Feb 19 16:19:33 2002 +++ handbook/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml Tue Feb 19 22:42:26 2002 @@ -648,6 +648,13 @@ + Tom + Rhodes + Reorganized and enhanced by + + + + Bill Swingle Written by @@ -658,44 +665,42 @@ NFS Among the many different file systems that FreeBSD supports is - the Network File System or NFS. NFS allows you - to share directories and files on one machine with others - via the network they are attached to. Using NFS, users and - programs can access files on remote systems as if they were local - files. + the Network File System also known as NFS. + NFS allows your system to share directories and files on + with others over the network. By using NFS, users and + programs can access files on remote systems almost as if they were local files. - NFS has several benefits: + Some of the benefits for using NFS are: - Local workstations do not need as much disk space because + Local workstations use less disk space because commonly used data can be stored on a single machine and still - remain accessible to everyone on the network. + remain accessible to others over the network. - There is no need for users to have unique home directories - on every machine on your network. Once they have an established - directory that is available via NFS it can be accessed from - anywhere. + There would be no need for users to have unique home directories + on every network machine. Once they have an established a home + directory that is available on an NFS filesystem, + it can be accessed from anywhere on the network. - Storage devices such as floppies and CDROM drives can be - used by other machines on the network eliminating the need for - extra hardware. + Storage devices such as floppy disks, CDROM drives, and ZIP drives + can be used by other machines on the network. This may elimininate the + need for every system to have a CDROM or ZIP drive, providing a more + cost effective solution. - How It Works + How <acronym>NFS</acronym> Works - NFS is composed of two sides – a client side and a - server side. Think of it as a want/have relationship. The client - wants the data that the server side - has. The server shares its data with the - client. In order for this system to function properly a few - processes have to be configured and running. + NFS consists of at least two parts; a client and + a server. The client remotely accesses the data that is stored locally + on the server machine. In order for this to function properly a few + processes have to be configured and running: The server has to be running the following daemons: @@ -723,85 +728,73 @@ nfsd - The NFS Daemon which services requests from NFS - clients. + The NFS daemon which serves requests from + the NFS clients. mountd - The NFS Mount Daemon which actually carries out + The NFS mount daemon which actually carries out requests that &man.nfsd.8; passes on to it. portmap - The portmapper daemon which - allows NFS clients to find out which port the NFS server - is using. + The portmapper daemon + allows NFS clients to find out which port the + NFS server is using. - The client side only needs to run a single daemon: - - NFS - client - - - nfsiod - - - - - - - nfsiod - The NFS async I/O Daemon which services requests - from its NFS server. - - - - + The client can also run a daemon, known as + nfsiod. The nfsiod + daemon services the requests from a NFS server. This, + is optional, and improves performance, but not really required for normal + and correct operation. See the &man.nfsiod.8; man page for more information. + - Configuring NFS + Configuring <acronym>NFS</acronym> NFS configuration - Luckily for us, on a FreeBSD system this setup is a snap. The - processes that need to be running can all be run at boot time with + On FreeBSD, the setup of NFS is a relatively straightforward + process. The processes that need to be running can all be run at boot time with a few modifications to your /etc/rc.conf file. - On the NFS server make sure you have: + On the NFS server, make sure that the following options + in the /etc/rc.conf file: portmap_enable="YES" nfs_server_enable="YES" nfs_server_flags="-u -t -n 4" mountd_flags="-r" - mountd is automatically run whenever the - NFS server is enabled. The and - flags to nfsd tell it to + mountd runs automatically whenever the + NFS server is enabled. The and + flags tell nfsd to serve UDP and TCP clients. The flag tells nfsd to start 4 copies of itself. - On the client, make sure you have: + On the client, make sure these options are present in the + /etc/rc.conf file: nfs_client_enable="YES" nfs_client_flags="-n 4" - Like nfsd, the tells + Like with nfsd, the tells nfsiod to start 4 copies of itself. - The last configuration step requires that you create a file - called /etc/exports. The exports file - specifies which file systems on your server will be shared - (a.k.a., exported) and with what clients they will - be shared. Each line in the file specifies a file system to be - shared. There are a handful of options that can be used in this + The NFS configuration requires that a file + called /etc/exports exsists. The exports file + specifies which file systems on your server will be exported + or shared and with what clients they will + exported too. Each line in the file specifies a file system to be + exported. There are many options that can be used in this file but only a few will be mentioned here. You can find out about the rest in the &man.exports.5; manual page. @@ -810,54 +803,57 @@ NFS - exporting filesystems + examples of exporting filesystems - The following line exports /cdrom to - three silly machines that have the same domain name as the server + In the following examples, an idea of how to export filesystems + is displayed, although the settings may be different depending on + environment and network setup. + The following line exports /cdrom to + three example machines that have the same domain name as the server (hence the lack of a domain name for each) or have entries in your /etc/hosts file. The - flag makes the shared file system read-only. With this flag, the - remote system will not be able to make any changes to the - shared file system. + flag makes the exported file system read-only. With this flag, the + remote system will not be able to write any changes to the + exported file system. - /cdrom -ro moe larry curly + /cdrom -ro example1 example2 example3 The following line exports /home to three hosts by IP address. This is a useful setup if you have a - private network but do not have DNS running. The - flag allows all the directories below + private network but do not have a DNS server configured. The + flag allows for all of the directories below the specified file system to be exported as well. /home -alldirs 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.3 10.0.0.4 - The following line exports /a to two - machines that have different domain names than the server. The - flag allows - the root user on the remote system to write to the shared - file system as root. Without the -maproot=0 flag even if - someone has root access on the remote system they will not - be able to modify files on the shared file system. + The following line exports /a so that two + machines with different domain names may access the server. The + flag allows the root + user on the remote system to write data on the exported file system as + root. Without the -maproot=0 flag, even if + someone has root access on the remote system they will not + be able to modify files on the exported file system. - /a -maproot=0 host.domain.com box.example.com + /a -maproot=0 host.example.com box.example2.com - In order for a client to access- an exported file system it must - have permission to do so. Make sure your client is listed in your + In order for a client to access an exported file system, the client must + have permission to do so. Make sure the client is listed in your /etc/exports file. - In /etc/exports, each line represents + In the /etc/exports file, each line represents the export information for one filesystem to one host. A - remote host can only be specified once for each local - filesystem, and you can only have one default entry per local + remote host can only be specified once per + filesystem, and may only have one default entry for each filesystem. For example, let's assume that /usr is a single filesystem. The - following /etc/exports is invalid: + following /etc/exports would be invalid: /usr/src client /usr/ports client One filesystem, /usr, has two lines - specifying its exports to the same host, - client. The correct format is: + specifying its exports to the same host, client. + The correct format for this situation is: /usr/src /usr/ports client @@ -874,39 +870,39 @@ # client01 has root privileges on it /usr/src /usr/ports -maproot=0 client01 /usr/src /usr/ports client02 -# The "client" machines have root and can mount anywhere -# up /exports. Anyone inhe world can mount /exports/obj read-only +# The client machines have root and can mount anywhere +# on /exports. Anyone in the world can mount /exports/obj read-only /exports -alldirs -maproot=0 client01 client02 /exports/obj -ro - You must restart - mountd whenever you modify - /etc/exports to make changes take - effect. This can be accomplished by sending the hangup signal + You must restart mountd whenever you modify + /etc/exports to make the changes current. + This can be accomplished by either sending the hangup signal to the mountd process: &prompt.root; kill -HUP `cat /var/run/mountd.pid` - Now that you have made all these changes you can just reboot - and let FreeBSD start everything for you at boot time, or you can - run the following commands as root: + Or, a simple reboot should make FreeBSD set everything up + for you. Although, a reboot is not nessissary + the following commands, run as root of course, + could start everything up also. - On the NFS server: + On the NFS server: &prompt.root; portmap &prompt.root; nfsd -u -t -n 4 &prompt.root; mountd -r - On the NFS client: + On the NFS client: &prompt.root; nfsiod -n 4 - Now you should be ready to actually mount a remote file + Now everything should be ready to actually mount a remote file system. This can be done one of two ways. In these examples the server's name will be server and the client's name will be client. If you just want to - temporarily mount a remote file system or just want to test out - your configuration you can run a command like this as root on the + temporarily mount a remote file system or just want to test the + configuration, just run a command like this as root on the client: NFS @@ -916,56 +912,56 @@ This will mount the /home directory on the server at /mnt on the client. If - everything is setup correctly you should be able to go into - /mnt on the client and see all the files that are on the + everything is setup correctly you should be able to enter + /mnt on the client and see all the files that are on the server. If you want to automatically mount a remote file system - each time the computer boots, add the filesystem to - /etc/fstab. Here is an example: + each time the computer boots, add the filesystem to the + /etc/fstab file. Here is an example: server:/home /mnt nfs rw 0 0 - Read the &man.fstab.5; manual page for more options. + The &man.fstab.5; manual page will show many more options that are available. Practical Uses - There are many very cool uses for NFS. Some of the more common - ones are listed below. + There are many practical uses for NFS. Some of the + more common ones are listed below: + + The following practicle NFS examples require + the proper NFS configuration before actual use. + + NFS uses - Have several machines on a network and share a CDROM or - floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more - convenient. + Setup several machines on a network to share a CDROM or + floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more convenient. - With so many machines on a network, it gets old having your - personal files strewn all over the place. You can have a - central NFS server that houses all user home directories and - shares them with the rest of the machines on the LAN, so no - matter where you log in you will have the same home - directory. + With so many machines on a network, you can have a + central NFS server store the user home directories and + export them with the rest of the machines on the network, this way + users can have the same home directory, regardless of which workstation + they log in to. - When you get to reinstalling FreeBSD on one of your - machines, NFS is the way to go! Just pop your distribution - CDROM into your file server and away you go! + You can use one CDROM on the NFS server to install + FreeBSD over the network on multiple machines. - Have a common /usr/ports/distfiles - directory that all your machines share. That way, when you go - to install a port that you have already installed on a different - machine, you do not have to download the source all over - again! + Several machines could have a common /usr/ports/distfiles + directory. That way, when you install a port on several machines, you can + quickly access the source without downloading it on each machine. @@ -992,14 +988,14 @@ amd automatic mounter daemon - &man.amd.8;, which is also known as the automatic mounter + &man.amd.8;, also known as the automatic mounter daemon, is a useful utility used for automatically mounting a remote filesystem whenever a file or directory within that filesystem is accessed. Filesystems that are inactive for a period of time will also be automatically unmounted by amd. Using amd provides a simplistic alternative - to static mounts. + to perminant mounts. amd operates by attaching itself as an NFS server to the /host and To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 21: 8:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE5137B400; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (zbay3-129.fyi.net [206.80.157.129]) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1K472v18912; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:07:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3C7321E6.4030001@pittgoth.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:11:18 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010628 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: Michael Lucas , Jay Edwards , bmah@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDCon Doc BoF Notes References: <200202182315.g1INFpc93221@bmah.dyndns.org> <3C719161.5090803@pittgoth.com> <20020219050357.GN42451@jayed.com> <20020218191647.A11924@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gary W. Swearingen wrote: >Michael Lucas writes: > >>Of course, other suggestions are welcome. This bikeshed is going to >>be around a while, I'm afraid. >> > >Paper book readers don't care whether book is split into small >HOWTO-sized pieces because they'll need to buy big books in any case. > I can agree with this. I know that a larger book catches my eye first due to size, one would expect a great deal of content. > >Their only concern is how expensive each book is and how many they will >need to buy. Trying to divide the current handbook by subject seems to >me a useless cause for paper books. Almost everyone would need all the > Real quick, I can again agree. Cost is a big issue with many people, I do look at price of hardware, books, ISP's. Many people I talk to and work with are the same way. > >books. The only reasonable division is by detail and that would take >much rewriting and duplication of material. Ideally, each topic could >have two or three levels of presentation, which could be separated for >three (or more for the most detailed (man page?) level) paper books (and >made accessible via link for paged digital versions). It sounds like >too much work, but except for a simple splitting of the manual into >all-needed-by-all parts (maybe with the minor help of segregating >networking or other big categories), it seems like the only reasonable >scheme. For instance in the "Security" section, the "Kerberos" topic >could have a short intro just to let people know why they might want to >investigate it further and then referrence the topic as in the "Details" >book. Topics would have widely varying coverage in the "Basics" book, >as commonly needed by users, but probably influenced by the need to keep >the Basics book under some size limit. > This may be more work than called for, but, if a patch is generated for the handbook on your system, and I have the same revision as you have, then the patch should work on my copy also. We could seperate the handbook, make one area for online browsing, and one for the full version. The only problem with this, is that when a patch is applied, someone may need to apply them to both versions. Or, depending on how the layout, the patch may need completely regenerated for one or the other. Maybe more work, but ask yourself, would it be worth it. This may raise barriors for people who WANT to be committers some day... But its something that experiance would teach. > > >The organization of the paged digital version (eg, HTML) hardly matters >as long as appropriate tables of content and indexes are provided. I'd >prefer these not even exist for only the Handbook, but also cover the >Articles, FAQ, and all other FDP docs. > >I hope there will always be a fully-combined ASCII version of the >handbook since that's the only one that's easily navigated/searched. >I found this to be one of the great advantages over Linux HOWTOs. >(Don't ask why I didn't make myself one.) > >Finally, several people have mentioned that multiple small books would >be easier for people (mostly doc people) to deal with. I have little >experience here, but it seems to me that Chapters and Articles are the >natural chunks that people deal with at any one time, and the number of >those grouped into any one book should barely matter. > > Large chapters, are hard to navigate through. If you notice a spelling, grammer, or other type of error, i'll be the first to admit, its difficult to find sometimes. Once in awhile i'll read the pr 2 or 3 times just to be sure i've found the right area, or even to help find the area. If some of the chapters were maybe broken down a bit, then yes, it may be easier for both indexing and editing purposes. Bringing up another point, you could always even argue that "The Complete FreeBSD" is more like an almost all-in-one guide to setting up this, setting up that, as many 'advanced' topics are covered, like DNS. Anyway, i'm done for now, and will wait for comments -- Tom Rhodes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 21:30:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9928237B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K5U3Q13772; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:30:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:30:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202200530.g1K5U3Q13772@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: docs/35098: [new patch] handbook NFS, sorry Reply-To: Tom Rhodes Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35098; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/35098: [new patch] handbook NFS, sorry Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:30:13 -0500 (EST) Major apologies, lol. I was reading over the diff on the pr site, and noticed some mistakes, and improvments that could and should be made. So, here again, another patch, fixing a few spelling errors, and even some grammer ;) -- Tom Rhodes *********************** diff -ru handbook.old/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml handbook/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml --- handbook.old/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml Tue Feb 19 16:19:33 2002 +++ handbook/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml Wed Feb 20 00:29:22 2002 @@ -648,6 +648,13 @@ + Tom + Rhodes + Reorganized and enhanced by + + + + Bill Swingle Written by @@ -658,44 +665,42 @@ NFS Among the many different file systems that FreeBSD supports is - the Network File System or NFS. NFS allows you - to share directories and files on one machine with others - via the network they are attached to. Using NFS, users and - programs can access files on remote systems as if they were local - files. + the Network File System also known as NFS. + NFS allows your system to share directories and files + with others over the network. By using NFS, users and + programs can access files on remote systems almost as if they were local files. - NFS has several benefits: + Some of the benefits for using NFS are: - Local workstations do not need as much disk space because + Local workstations use less disk space because commonly used data can be stored on a single machine and still - remain accessible to everyone on the network. + remain accessible to others over the network. - There is no need for users to have unique home directories - on every machine on your network. Once they have an established - directory that is available via NFS it can be accessed from - anywhere. + There would be no need for users to have unique home directories + on every network machine. Once they have an established a home + directory that is available on an NFS filesystem, + it can be accessed from other machines on the network. - Storage devices such as floppies and CDROM drives can be - used by other machines on the network eliminating the need for - extra hardware. + Storage devices such as floppy disks, CDROM drives, and ZIP drives + can be used by other machines on the network. This may eliminate the + need for every system to have a CDROM or ZIP drive, providing a more + cost effective solution. - How It Works + How <acronym>NFS</acronym> Works - NFS is composed of two sides – a client side and a - server side. Think of it as a want/have relationship. The client - wants the data that the server side - has. The server shares its data with the - client. In order for this system to function properly a few - processes have to be configured and running. + NFS consists of at least two main parts; a client + and a server. The client remotely accesses the data that is stored locally + on the server machine. In order for this to function properly a few + processes have to be configured and running: The server has to be running the following daemons: @@ -723,86 +728,73 @@ nfsd - The NFS Daemon which services requests from NFS - clients. + The NFS daemon which serves requests from + the NFS clients. mountd - The NFS Mount Daemon which actually carries out + The NFS mount daemon which actually carries out requests that &man.nfsd.8; passes on to it. portmap - The portmapper daemon which - allows NFS clients to find out which port the NFS server - is using. + The portmapper daemon + allows NFS clients to find out which port the + NFS server is using. - The client side only needs to run a single daemon: - - NFS - client - - - nfsiod - - - - - - - nfsiod - The NFS async I/O Daemon which services requests - from its NFS server. - - - - + The client can also run a daemon, known as + nfsiod. The nfsiod + daemon services the requests from the NFS server. This + is optional, and improves performance, but not required for normal + and correct operation. See the &man.nfsiod.8; man page for more information. + - Configuring NFS + Configuring <acronym>NFS</acronym> NFS configuration - Luckily for us, on a FreeBSD system this setup is a snap. The - processes that need to be running can all be run at boot time with - a few modifications to your /etc/rc.conf - file. + On FreeBSD, the setup of NFS is a relatively straightforward + process. The processes that need to be running can all start at boot time with + a few modifications to your /etc/rc.conf file. - On the NFS server make sure you have: + On the NFS server, make sure that the following options + in the /etc/rc.conf file: portmap_enable="YES" nfs_server_enable="YES" nfs_server_flags="-u -t -n 4" mountd_flags="-r" - mountd is automatically run whenever the - NFS server is enabled. The and - flags to nfsd tell it to + mountd runs automatically whenever the + NFS server is enabled. The and + flags tell nfsd to serve UDP and TCP clients. The flag tells nfsd to start 4 copies of itself. - On the client, make sure you have: + On the client, make sure these options are present in the + /etc/rc.conf file: nfs_client_enable="YES" nfs_client_flags="-n 4" - Like nfsd, the tells + Like with nfsd, the tells nfsiod to start 4 copies of itself. - The last configuration step requires that you create a file - called /etc/exports. The exports file - specifies which file systems on your server will be shared - (a.k.a., exported) and with what clients they will - be shared. Each line in the file specifies a file system to be - shared. There are a handful of options that can be used in this - file but only a few will be mentioned here. You can find out + The NFS configuration requires that a file + called /etc/exports exists. The + exports file specifies which filesystems + on your server will be exported or shared and with + what clients they will exported too. Each line in the file specifies + a filesystem to be exported. There are many options that can be used + in this file but only a few will be mentioned here. You can find out about the rest in the &man.exports.5; manual page. Here are a few example /etc/exports @@ -810,54 +802,56 @@ NFS - exporting filesystems + examples of exporting filesystems - The following line exports /cdrom to - three silly machines that have the same domain name as the server + In the following examples, an idea of how to export filesystems + is displayed, although the settings may be different depending on + environment and network setup. + The following line exports /cdrom to + three example machines that have the same domain name as the server (hence the lack of a domain name for each) or have entries in your /etc/hosts file. The - flag makes the shared file system read-only. With this flag, the - remote system will not be able to make any changes to the - shared file system. + flag makes the exported file system read-only. With this flag, the + remote system will not be able to write any changes to the + exported file system. - /cdrom -ro moe larry curly + /cdrom -ro example1 example2 example3 The following line exports /home to three hosts by IP address. This is a useful setup if you have a - private network but do not have DNS running. The - flag allows all the directories below + private network but do not have a DNS server configured. + The flag allows for all of the directories below the specified file system to be exported as well. /home -alldirs 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.3 10.0.0.4 - The following line exports /a to two - machines that have different domain names than the server. The - flag allows - the root user on the remote system to write to the shared - file system as root. Without the -maproot=0 flag even if - someone has root access on the remote system they will not - be able to modify files on the shared file system. + The following line exports /a so that two + machines with different domain names may access the filesystem. The + flag allows the root + user on the remote system to write data on the exported file system as + root. Without the -maproot=0 flag, even if + someone has root access on the remote system they will not + be able to modify files on the exported filesystem. - /a -maproot=0 host.domain.com box.example.com + /a -maproot=0 host.example.com box.example2.com - In order for a client to access- an exported file system it must - have permission to do so. Make sure your client is listed in your + In order for a client to access an exported filesystem, the client must + have permission to do so. Make sure the client is listed in your /etc/exports file. - In /etc/exports, each line represents + In the /etc/exports file, each line represents the export information for one filesystem to one host. A - remote host can only be specified once for each local - filesystem, and you can only have one default entry per local - filesystem. For example, let's assume that + remote host can only be specified once per filesystem, and may only + have one default entry for each. For example, assume that /usr is a single filesystem. The - following /etc/exports is invalid: + following /etc/exports would be invalid: /usr/src client /usr/ports client One filesystem, /usr, has two lines - specifying its exports to the same host, - client. The correct format is: + specifying exports to the same host, client. + The correct format for this situation is: /usr/src /usr/ports client @@ -874,40 +868,40 @@ # client01 has root privileges on it /usr/src /usr/ports -maproot=0 client01 /usr/src /usr/ports client02 -# The "client" machines have root and can mount anywhere -# up /exports. Anyone inhe world can mount /exports/obj read-only +# The client machines have root and can mount anywhere +# on /exports. Anyone in the world can mount /exports/obj read-only /exports -alldirs -maproot=0 client01 client02 /exports/obj -ro - You must restart - mountd whenever you modify - /etc/exports to make changes take - effect. This can be accomplished by sending the hangup signal + You must restart mountd whenever you modify + /etc/exports to make the changes current. + This can be accomplished by either sending the hangup signal to the mountd process: &prompt.root; kill -HUP `cat /var/run/mountd.pid` - Now that you have made all these changes you can just reboot - and let FreeBSD start everything for you at boot time, or you can - run the following commands as root: + Or by a simple reboot, which should make FreeBSD set everything + up. Although, a reboot is not necessary the following commands, + run as root of course, could start everything + up also. - On the NFS server: + On the NFS server: &prompt.root; portmap &prompt.root; nfsd -u -t -n 4 &prompt.root; mountd -r - On the NFS client: + On the NFS client: &prompt.root; nfsiod -n 4 - Now you should be ready to actually mount a remote file + Now everything should be ready to actually mount a remote file system. This can be done one of two ways. In these examples the server's name will be server and the client's name will be client. If you just want to - temporarily mount a remote file system or just want to test out - your configuration you can run a command like this as root on the - client: + temporarily mount a remote file system or just want to test the + configuration, just run a command like this as root + on the client: NFS mounting filesystems @@ -916,56 +910,59 @@ This will mount the /home directory on the server at /mnt on the client. If - everything is setup correctly you should be able to go into - /mnt on the client and see all the files that are on the - server. - - If you want to automatically mount a remote file system - each time the computer boots, add the filesystem to - /etc/fstab. Here is an example: + everything is setup correctly you should be able to enter + /mnt on the client and see all the files + that are on the server. + + If you want to automatically mount a remote filesystem + each time the computer boots, add the filesystem to the + /etc/fstab file. Here is an example: server:/home /mnt nfs rw 0 0 - Read the &man.fstab.5; manual page for more options. + The &man.fstab.5; manual page will show many more options + that are available here. Practical Uses - There are many very cool uses for NFS. Some of the more common - ones are listed below. + There are many practical uses for NFS. Some of the + more common ones are listed below: + + The following practical NFS examples require + the proper NFS configuration before actual use, see + above. + + NFS uses - Have several machines on a network and share a CDROM or - floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more - convenient. + Setup several machines on a network to share a CDROM or + floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more convenient. - With so many machines on a network, it gets old having your - personal files strewn all over the place. You can have a - central NFS server that houses all user home directories and - shares them with the rest of the machines on the LAN, so no - matter where you log in you will have the same home - directory. + With so many machines on a network, you can have a + central NFS server store the user home directories and + export them to the rest of the machines on the network, this way + users can have the same home directory, regardless of which workstation + they log in to. - When you get to reinstalling FreeBSD on one of your - machines, NFS is the way to go! Just pop your distribution - CDROM into your file server and away you go! + You can use one CDROM on the NFS server to install + FreeBSD over the network on multiple machines. - Have a common /usr/ports/distfiles - directory that all your machines share. That way, when you go - to install a port that you have already installed on a different - machine, you do not have to download the source all over - again! + Several machines could have a common /usr/ports/distfiles + directory, assuming of course all the machines are FreeBSD. + That way, when you need to install a port on several machines, you can + quickly access the source without downloading it on each machine. @@ -992,14 +989,14 @@ amd automatic mounter daemon - &man.amd.8;, which is also known as the automatic mounter + &man.amd.8;, also known as the automatic mounter daemon, is a useful utility used for automatically mounting a remote filesystem whenever a file or directory within that filesystem is accessed. Filesystems that are inactive for a period of time will also be automatically unmounted by amd. Using amd provides a simplistic alternative - to static mounts. + to permanent mounts. amd operates by attaching itself as an NFS server to the /host and To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 22:10: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7734E37B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K6A1q23176; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:10:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436EC37B443 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from darklogik@localhost) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K67Ga19123; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:07:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik) Message-Id: <200202200607.g1K67Ga19123@pittgoth.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:07:16 -0500 (EST) From: Tom Rhodes Reply-To: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Subject: docs/35133: [patch] work for -junior doc hacker thread Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 35133 >Category: docs >Synopsis: [patch] work for -junior doc hacker thread >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: medium >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Tue Feb 19 22:10:01 PST 2002 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: >Release: FreeBSD 4.5 i386 >Organization: >Environment: System: FreeBSD localhost 4.5 >Description: This just adds the information to the FDP primer, and lists it only under the information. I didn't think it deserved a huge section devoted to it. Of course, if someone thinks it should be done like that, no objections here ;) >How-To-Repeat: Ask yourself how to use quotes, and then wonder why there isn't any info on it in the primer >Fix: either commit or comment on this patch. Only in fdp-primer: imagelib diff -ru fdp-primer.old/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml fdp-primer/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml --- fdp-primer.old/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml Tue Feb 19 16:10:10 2002 +++ fdp-primer/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml Tue Feb 19 16:17:26 2002 @@ -1014,6 +1014,16 @@ element. + + + Use of <sgmltag>quote</sgmltag> + + <para>Within <sgmltag>para</sgmltag> you may want to quote something, since + this is a normal operation in most documents it is usually done by using the + <sgmltag>quote</sgmltag> tag. This will give you an output similar to: + <quote>I am a quote, and I can be used within <sgmltag>para</sgmltag></quote> + </para> + </sect3> <sect3> <title>Block quotations >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 22:44: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from smtp017.mail.yahoo.com (smtp017.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A298437B419 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:43:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from l228ppp190.ksc.net.th (HELO thailifetime) (203.155.228.190) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 06:43:17 -0000 Message-ID: <01d601c1b9d9$37eceb80$82e29bcb@thailifetime> From: "faststep_3" To: Subject: Work From Home Free Information Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:36:25 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01D3_01C1BA13.97B8CC20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01D3_01C1BA13.97B8CC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-874" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Work From Home Free Information WHo DO YOU KNOW IN .....INDIA - CHAINA? USA-Europe-Africa-Asia:-Taiwan-Hongkong Korea-Japan-Malasia-Pakistan-Bangdesh Multibillion Dollar International Company Expanding Rapidly, needs your help EARN US$ 500-$1500 A MONTH PART TIME $1,000-$5,000 A MONTH FULL - TIME TEL.6627520011 / 6691112270 E-mail;muimint@yahoo.com www.thailifetime.com/somporn www.herbalife.com Work from your home -country all around the world =E0=C7=C5=D2 10-15 =B9=D2=B7=D5 ... =C1=D5=A4=D8=B3=A4=E8=D2 =CB=D2=A1=B7=E8=D2=B9=A1=D3=C5=D1=A7=CB=D2=A7=D2=B9=B9=CD=A1=E0=C7=C5=D2 = =CB=C3=D7=CD=C3=D2=C2=E4=B4=E9=E0=CA=C3=D4=C1 =E4=C1=E8=B5=E9=CD=A7=CB=D2=CD=D5=A1=B5=E8=CD=E4=BB = =B7=E8=D2=B9=CA=D2=C1=D2=C3=B6=B7=D3=C3=D2=C2=E4=B4=E9=B6=D6=A7 =B9=CD=A1=E0=C7=C5=D2 5,000-30,000 =BA=D2=B7/=E0=B4=D7=CD=B9 =E0=B5=E7=C1=E0=C7=C5=D2 30,000-110,000 =BA=D2=B7/=E0=B4=D7=CD=B9 =CA=D2=C1=D2=C3=B6=E0=C5=D7=CD=A1=E0=C7=C5=D2=B7=D3=A7=D2=B9, = =B7=D3=A7=D2=B9=B7=D5=E8=BA=E9=D2=B9=CB=C3=D7=CD=CD=D4=B9=E0=B5=CD=C3=EC=E0= =B9=E7=B5 =B9=D1=A1=B8=D8=C3=A1=D4=A8 =E1=BE=B7=C2=EC =BE=C2=D2=BA=D2=C5 = =E0=C0=CA=D1=AA=A1=C3 =CA=B6=D2=BB=B9=D4=A1 =C7=D4=C8=C7=A1=C3 = =B7=B9=D2=C2=A4=C7=D2=C1 =B9=D1=A1=BA=D1=AD=AA=D5 =BE=B9=D1=A1=A7=D2=B9=BA=C3=D4=C9=D1=B7 =A2=E9=D2=C3=D2=AA=A1=D2=C3 = =B9=D1=A1=C8=D6=A1=C9=D2 =B9=D1=A1=A4=CD=C1=BE=D4=C7=E0=B5=CD=C3=EC = =B9=D1=A1=A2=D2=C2=BB=C3=D0=A1=D1=B9 =B5=D4=B4=B5=E8=CD =A4=D8=B3=CA=C1=BE=C3 66 91112 270 , 66 2752 00 = 11 www.thailifetime.com/somporn=20 *=CB=D2=A1=B7=E8=D2=B9=E3=AA=E9=CD=D4=B9=E0=B5=CD=C3=EC=E0=B9=E7=B5=E4=B4= =E9 =E0=C3=D2=A8=D0=BE=D4=A8=D2=C3=B3=D2=E0=BB=E7=B9=BE=D4=E0=C8=C9 ------=_NextPart_000_01D3_01C1BA13.97B8CC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-874" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Work From Home Free = Information

WHo DO YOU KNOW IN .....INDIA -=20 CHAINA?
USA-Europe-Africa-Asia:-Taiwan-Hongkong
Korea-Japan-Malasia= -Pakistan-Bangdesh
Multibillion=20 Dollar International Company
Expanding Rapidly, needs your = help

EARN US$ 500-$1500 A MONTH PART=20 TIME
$1,000-$5,000 A MONTH FULL - TIME

TEL.6627520011 =20 / 6691112270
E-mail;muimint@yahoo.com
www.thailifetime.com/somporn= =20 www.herbalife.com

Work from your home -country all around = the=20 world

=E0=C7=C5=D2 10-15 =B9=D2=B7=D5 ... = =C1=D5=A4=D8=B3=A4=E8=D2
=CB=D2=A1=B7=E8=D2=B9=A1=D3=C5=D1=A7=CB=D2=A7= =D2=B9=B9=CD=A1=E0=C7=C5=D2=20 =CB=C3=D7=CD=C3=D2=C2=E4=B4=E9=E0=CA=C3=D4=C1
=E4=C1=E8=B5=E9=CD=A7=CB= =D2=CD=D5=A1=B5=E8=CD=E4=BB = =B7=E8=D2=B9=CA=D2=C1=D2=C3=B6=B7=D3=C3=D2=C2=E4=B4=E9=B6=D6=A7
=B9=CD= =A1=E0=C7=C5=D2=20 5,000-30,000 =BA=D2=B7/=E0=B4=D7=CD=B9
=E0=B5=E7=C1=E0=C7=C5=D2 = 30,000-110,000=20 =BA=D2=B7/=E0=B4=D7=CD=B9
=CA=D2=C1=D2=C3=B6=E0=C5=D7=CD=A1=E0=C7=C5=D2= =B7=D3=A7=D2=B9, = =B7=D3=A7=D2=B9=B7=D5=E8=BA=E9=D2=B9=CB=C3=D7=CD=CD=D4=B9=E0=B5=CD=C3=EC=E0= =B9=E7=B5
=B9=D1=A1=B8=D8=C3=A1=D4=A8=20 =E1=BE=B7=C2=EC =BE=C2=D2=BA=D2=C5 =E0=C0=CA=D1=AA=A1=C3 = =CA=B6=D2=BB=B9=D4=A1 =C7=D4=C8=C7=A1=C3 =B7=B9=D2=C2=A4=C7=D2=C1 = =B9=D1=A1=BA=D1=AD=AA=D5
=BE=B9=D1=A1=A7=D2=B9=BA=C3=D4=C9=D1=B7 = =A2=E9=D2=C3=D2=AA=A1=D2=C3=20 =B9=D1=A1=C8=D6=A1=C9=D2 =B9=D1=A1=A4=CD=C1=BE=D4=C7=E0=B5=CD=C3=EC = =B9=D1=A1=A2=D2=C2=BB=C3=D0=A1=D1=B9

=B5=D4=B4=B5=E8=CD =A4=D8=B3=CA=C1=BE=C3 66 91112 = 270 , 66 2752 00 11
www.thailifetime.com/somporn= =20
*=CB=D2=A1=B7=E8=D2=B9=E3=AA=E9=CD=D4=B9=E0=B5=CD=C3=EC=E0=B9=E7=B5=E4= =B4=E9 = =E0=C3=D2=A8=D0=BE=D4=A8=D2=C3=B3=D2=E0=BB=E7=B9=BE=D4=E0=C8=C9 ------=_NextPart_000_01D3_01C1BA13.97B8CC20-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Feb 19 23:31:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from straylight.ringlet.net (discworld.nanolink.com [217.75.135.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B7D4237B405 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 3756 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Feb 2002 07:32:10 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:32:09 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Praveen Polishetty Cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20020220093209.C342@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Praveen Polishetty , doc@FreeBSD.org References: <000901c1b975$2b6d9a80$f92cb69d@cerc.wvu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H+4ONPRPur6+Ovig" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <000901c1b975$2b6d9a80$f92cb69d@cerc.wvu.edu>; from poli_praveen@yahoo.com on Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 02:27:57PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --H+4ONPRPur6+Ovig Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 02:27:57PM -0500, Praveen Polishetty wrote: > Hi, > I am trying to build My own kernel for Elephant File system.I included > two more options in my kernel file in addition to the options given in > GENERIC file. >=20 > options NULLFS #NULL filesystem > options WMFS #ELEPHANT filesystem. >=20 > when i try to build the kernel it is giving me an error saying unknown > option WMFS. > I would appreciate if you can tell me what the problem is. Well, a couple of points. First, you do not mention what version of FreeBSD you are running. Neither 4.5-RELEASE, 4.5-STABLE or 5.0-CURRENT as of today seem to support such a thing as WMFS or Elephant (it is not mentioned in the sys/i386/conf/LINT file, or sys/i386/conf/NOTES on -CURRENT, which lists all the available kernel options). I could not find it in the CVS archives for either of those files, either; are you sure that FreeBSD has actually had support for this, ever? Also, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org is not exactly the best list to ask this type of questions; it is more of a list for discussing the documentation that comes with FreeBSD. There is another list, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, which is dedicated to general questions and problems with FreeBSD. Ah.. I just did a Google search for 'Elephant FreeBSD'; it came up with a paper by Dr. Michael J. Feeley, mentioning an implementation of Elephant for FreeBSD 2.2.7. When I checked Dr. Feeley's home page at http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~feeley/ and followed the Research -> Elephant links, the following paragraph caught my eye: The current Elephant prototype is implemented as a Virtual File System in the FreeBSD kernel. It is available upon request. So, the Elephant filesystem is not yet a part of FreeBSD per se; you could try contacting Dr. Michael J. Feeley for the prototype. G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 The rest of this sentence is written in Thailand, on --H+4ONPRPur6+Ovig Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxzUPkACgkQ7Ri2jRYZRVNdlwCgvJhzTNddA5BzTl94ChpLbppi v10AnRkpSIVanW8ymOKOfzZD4VCD5BSG =OAyZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --H+4ONPRPur6+Ovig-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 0:40:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998E537B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:40:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1K8e2o55541; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:40:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202200840.g1K8e2o55541@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Peter Pentchev Subject: Re: docs/35133: [patch] work for -junior doc hacker thread Reply-To: Peter Pentchev Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35133; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Peter Pentchev To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/35133: [patch] work for -junior doc hacker thread Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:34:36 +0200 Oops. This should go to GNATS, too, should it not.. G'luck, Peter -- Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 Thit sentence is not self-referential because "thit" is not a word. ----- Forwarded message from Peter Pentchev ----- Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:13:54 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: docs/35133: [patch] work for -junior doc hacker thread User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200202200607.g1K67Ga19123@pittgoth.com>; from darklogik@pittgoth.com on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:07:16AM -0500 On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:07:16AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > >Number: 35133 > >Category: docs > >Synopsis: [patch] work for -junior doc hacker thread > >Description: > This just adds the information to the FDP primer, > and lists it only under the information. I didn't think it > deserved a huge section devoted to it. Of course, if someone > thinks it should be done like that, no objections here ;) > >How-To-Repeat: > Ask yourself how to use quotes, and then wonder > why there isn't any info on it in the primer > >Fix: > either commit or comment on this patch. You asked for it ;) Being as it is that I consider myself a junior -doc hacker too, please do not take my comments too seriously; it's just MHO.. > --- fdp-primer.old/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml Tue Feb 19 16:10:10 2002 > +++ fdp-primer/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml Tue Feb 19 16:17:26 2002 > @@ -1014,6 +1014,16 @@ > element. > > First point: is not a block element, it is rather an in-line element; its description does not quite belong here, I think.. > + > + > + Use of <sgmltag>quote</sgmltag> Unclosed <title> tag. > + > + <para>Within <sgmltag>para</sgmltag> you may want to quote something, since You might want to break this sentence into its two logical parts.. > + this is a normal operation in most documents it is usually done by using the > + <sgmltag>quote</sgmltag> tag. This will give you an output similar to: > + <quote>I am a quote, and I can be used within <sgmltag>para</sgmltag></quote> > + </para> > + </sect3> This does not quite follow the style of all the other examples in this section of the FDP primer :) What do you (and other -doc people) think about the attached patch instead? G'luck, Peter Index: doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.39 diff -u -r1.39 chapter.sgml --- doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml 11 Feb 2002 01:58:44 -0000 1.39 +++ doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/sgml-markup/chapter.sgml 20 Feb 2002 08:04:45 -0000 @@ -1604,6 +1604,31 @@ </sect3> <sect3> + <title>Quotations + + To quote text from another document or source, or to denote + a phrase that is used figuratively, use quote. + Within a quote tag, you may use most of the + markup tags available for normal text. + + + Quotations + + Use: + + However, make sure that the search does not go beyond the + boundary between local and public administration, + as RFC 1535 calls it.]]> + + Appearance: + + However, make sure that the search does not go beyond the + boundary between local and public administration, + as RFC 1535 calls it. + + + + Keys, mouse buttons, and combinations To refer to a specific key on the keyboard, use ----- End forwarded message ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 1: 6:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from relay3-gui.server.ntli.net (relay3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.4.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6532537B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:06:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc4-card4-0-cust162.cdf.cable.ntl.com ([80.4.14.162] helo=rhadamanth.private.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by relay3-gui.server.ntli.net with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 16dShJ-0005aS-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:05:57 +0000 Received: from setantae by rhadamanth.private.submonkey.net with local (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16dShI-0000j3-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:05:56 +0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:05:56 +0000 From: Ceri To: Tom Rhodes Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Message-ID: <20020220090556.GA2535@rhadamanth> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri , Tom Rhodes , freebsd-doc@freebsd.org References: <200202200350.g1K3o2D95303@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200202200350.g1K3o2D95303@freefall.freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 07:50:02PM -0800, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Please review this, it has alot of your ideas, but a few of my own > tossed in here. I did cover more ground than listed, and have yet > to touch the amd part, well, more than the first paragraph hehe This is a large patch, so I am going to be as terse as possible with my comments; sorry to stick my oar in, if Michael and yourself would rather sort this out between yourselves that's cool too. > + the Network File System also known as NFS. ...System, also... OR ...System (NFS for short). > + NFS allows your system to share directories and files on > + with others over the network. That doesn't make sense. > + Some of the benefits for using NFS are: ..benefits of using.. > - How It Works > + How <acronym>NFS</acronym> Works Don't think we need acronym there ?? > + NFS consists of at least two parts; a client and > + a server. The client remotely accesses the data that is stored locally > + on the server machine. In order for this to function properly a few > + processes have to be configured and running: i) indentation is cack here; ii) the words remotely and locally here are potentially confusing. > - The NFS Daemon which services requests from NFS > - clients. > + The NFS daemon which serves requests from > + the NFS clients. I prefer the original "services requests" to "serves requests", which doesn't seem to make sense. > - The NFS Mount Daemon which actually carries out > + The NFS mount daemon which actually carries out > requests that &man.nfsd.8; passes on to it. I know this isn't your copy, but : "actually carries out requests" seems redundant, viz. The NFS mount daemon which actually carries out requests that nfsd passes on to it (as opposed to silently discarding them like all the other processes do). > + The portmapper daemon > + allows NFS clients to find out which port the > + NFS server is using. i) indentation is all cack again ii) s/find out/discover/ iii) {setantae@rhadamanth}-{~} $ portmapper portmapper: Command not found. Not a at all, then. > + The client can also run a daemon, known as > + nfsiod. The nfsiod > + daemon services the requests from a NFS server. This, > + is optional, and improves performance, but not really required for normal > + and correct operation. See the &man.nfsiod.8; man page for more information. ..performance, but is not... > - On the NFS server make sure you have: > + On the NFS server, make sure that the following options > + in the /etc/rc.conf file: Doesn't make sense. make sure that the following options are configured in the + mountd runs automatically whenever the > + NFS server is enabled. The and > + flags tell nfsd to I'm going to complain about indentation again... > - Like nfsd, the tells > + Like with nfsd, the tells > nfsiod to start 4 copies of itself. s/Like/As/ > + The NFS configuration requires that a file > + called /etc/exports exsists. The exports file > + specifies which file systems on your server will be exported > + or shared and with what clients they will > + exported too. Each line in the file specifies a file system to be > + exported. There are many options that can be used in this i) indentation, indentation, indentation ii) |ispell ? s/exsists/exists/ ? ii) I prefer this : NFS configuration requires that a file named /etc/exports exist. The exports file specifies which filesystems on the server will be shared (or exported), and with which clients. Each line in /etc/exports specifies a filesystem to be exported and the options with which this will be done. There are many such option that can be used in this... Assuming of course, that is valid in the Handbook. Otherwise, maybe . > - exporting filesystems > + examples of exporting filesystems I don't feel that's necessary in an . > + In the following examples, an idea of how to export filesystems > + is displayed, although the settings may be different depending on > + environment and network setup. If we're using "you/your" (as we are above), I'd prefer "..depending on your environment and..." here. > - /cdrom -ro moe larry curly > + /cdrom -ro example1 example2 example3 s/example/host/g ? > + private network but do not have a DNS server configured. The > + flag allows for all of the directories below > the specified file system to be exported as well. Don't think that both of "all of" and "as well" are necessary. > + The following line exports /a so that two > + machines with different domain names may access the server. The > + flag allows the root indentation :) > + user on the remote system to write data on the exported file system as > + root. Without the -maproot=0 flag, even if -maproot=0 isn't an option anymore ? > + someone has root access on the remote system they will not > + be able to modify files on the exported file system. > > - /a -maproot=0 host.domain.com box.example.com > + /a -maproot=0 host.example.com box.example2.com example2.com isn't a documentation friendly domain. example.org instead ? > - In /etc/exports, each line represents > + In the /etc/exports file, each line represents > the export information for one filesystem to one host. A > - remote host can only be specified once for each local > - filesystem, and you can only have one default entry per local > + remote host can only be specified once per > + filesystem, and may only have one default entry for each > filesystem. For example, let's assume that > /usr is a single filesystem. The > - following /etc/exports is invalid: > + following /etc/exports would be invalid: I've been responsible for some rather spectacular NFS abortions in my time, and I still don't understand the above paragraph. What's a default entry ? I don't like from here until the end of the section at all : > - You must restart > - mountd whenever you modify > - /etc/exports to make changes take > - effect. This can be accomplished by sending the hangup signal > + You must restart mountd whenever you modify > + /etc/exports to make the changes current. > + This can be accomplished by either sending the hangup signal The "or" that goes with this "either" is too far away. > + Or, a simple reboot should make FreeBSD set everything up > + for you. Although, a reboot is not nessissary > + the following commands, run as root of course, > + could start everything up also. i) s/nessissary/necessary/ ii) It doesn't scan at all. iii) A reboot _will_ work, if everything is set up correctly. > name will be client. If you just want to > - temporarily mount a remote file system or just want to test out > - your configuration you can run a command like this as root on the > + temporarily mount a remote file system or just want to test the > + configuration, just run a command like this as root on the > client: That sentence contains the word "just" at least three times. Just use "just" just once ;) > This will mount the /home directory > on the server at /mnt on the client. If > - everything is setup correctly you should be able to go into > - /mnt on the client and see all the files that are on the > + everything is setup correctly you should be able to enter I'll get in here before Gary does ;) s/setup/set up/ > If you want to automatically mount a remote file system > + The &man.fstab.5; manual page will show many more options that are available. > The &man.fstab.5; manual page lists all available options. > + There are many practical uses for NFS. Some of the > + more common ones are listed below: > + > + The following practicle NFS examples require You already said they were practical. s/practicle// > + the proper NFS configuration before actual use. NFS to be correctly configured... > - Have several machines on a network and share a CDROM or > - floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more > - convenient. > + Setup several machines on a network to share a CDROM or > + floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more convenient. s/Setup/Set up/ > - With so many machines on a network, it gets old having your > - personal files strewn all over the place. You can have a > - central NFS server that houses all user home directories and > - shares them with the rest of the machines on the LAN, so no > - matter where you log in you will have the same home > - directory. > + With so many machines on a network, you can have a > + central NFS server store the user home directories and > + export them with the rest of the machines on the network, this way > + users can have the same home directory, regardless of which workstation > + they log in to. With how many machines ? And it won't work if I've got N-1 machines ? (picky in the extreme, I know) > - &man.amd.8;, which is also known as the automatic mounter > + &man.amd.8;, also known as the automatic mounter &man.amd.8; (the automatic mounter daemon) ... > - to static mounts. > + to perminant mounts. eh ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 1:49: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from bazooka.trit.org (bazooka.trit.org [63.198.170.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA7A37B416; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by bazooka.trit.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 42B513E2F; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:48:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bazooka (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bazooka.trit.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DEF93C12E; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:48:59 +0000 (UTC) To: Nik Clayton , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: replacement Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:48:54 +0000 From: Dima Dorfman Message-Id: <20020220094859.42B513E2F@bazooka.trit.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Given the lack of noise, shall I assume that everybody is content with the patches I posted and would like to see them committed? Unless I hear otherwise, I plan to do just that in a few days. Thanks. I wrote: > [ I'll try not to repeat what others have already said. ] > > Nik Clayton wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 10:05:49AM +0000, Dima Dorfman wrote: > > > I propose to replace the tag with and a "role" > > > attribute as follows: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Definitely 'package', not 'port'. Ports are just the infrastructure > > that produce packages. > > Indeed; my change from "port" to "package" was deliberate. People > have already given reasons for and against this, but my main > motivation (which has only been mentioned in an off-hand manner) was > that "port" is ambiguous; I can think of at least three different ways > it can be interpreted in this context (TCP/UDP type ports, i386/alpha > type ports, and cvsup/procmail type ports). Given that, as you [Nik] > point out, FreeBSD is the only place where the definition we want is > used, it probably isn't a good idea. If people are concerned with > length (I haven't seen this brought up), we can use "pkg", but SGML > isn't exactly known for being pithy. > > > 2. I have a nagging feeling that we should make sure the package's > > category is included somewhere that DSSSL/XSLT stylesheets can > > access it. > > > > net/cvsup > > > > is less easy to parse (in a stylesheet) than something like > > > > cvsup > > I don't really see how the category would be useful without the port > name. Actually, the "net/" part of "net/cvsup" isn't exactly the > category; it's the directory in which the port resides. net/cvsup is > in `net' and `devel', but only `net/cvsup' would work in this case. > Either way, I don't see how we could use the category. > > I guess I'm not really objecting to this, but rather I'm not sure it's > worth the trouble. I can't see how it would help, and it adds more > verbosity (as if there wasn't enough (I know SGML is verbose by > nature, but I don't have to like it)). If [most] people disagree with > me, I'll do the (trivial) work to make it happen. > > The second construct above is also ugly in that it adds a > `role'-sensitive `category' attribute. It isn't really invalid, but > it certainly isn't elegant. > > > We can always make these entities, something like > > > > &pkg.net.cvsup; > > I don't really have anything to add on this point except to point out > that if we eventually decide to do this people will want to replace > all occurances of '' with entities at once, > I'd rather only have to do one mass-commit (i.e., get it done right > the first time). If, on the other hand, people would be content with > having some documents (or parts of documents) use entities while > others use directly, I'd rather get everything > converted to the latter for now and leave this discussion (and > decision) for later. > > Thanks, everyone, for your comments. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 1:53:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from straylight.ringlet.net (discworld.nanolink.com [217.75.135.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 136B637B416 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:53:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16085 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Feb 2002 09:52:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:52:15 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Dima Dorfman Cc: Nik Clayton , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: replacement Message-ID: <20020220115215.A334@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Dima Dorfman , Nik Clayton , doc@freebsd.org References: <20020220094859.42B513E2F@bazooka.trit.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020220094859.42B513E2F@bazooka.trit.org>; from dima@trit.org on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:48:54AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:48:54AM +0000, Dima Dorfman wrote: > Given the lack of noise, shall I assume that everybody is content with > the patches I posted and would like to see them committed? Unless I > hear otherwise, I plan to do just that in a few days. Go for it! Erm, IMHO, of course :) G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 I am jealous of the first word in this sentence. --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxzcc8ACgkQ7Ri2jRYZRVNm9ACgsvPzsLnQ1sdF5Wxz/Rq9sm7U G4kAoJaTTqcUlaE/R6xXLr0VqM9vu1j1 =/hrR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 4:30:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 489FA37B41B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 04:30:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KCUQa21334; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:30:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:30:26 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Ceri Cc: Tom Rhodes , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Message-ID: <20020220073026.A21306@blackhelicopters.org> References: <200202200350.g1K3o2D95303@freefall.freebsd.org> <20020220090556.GA2535@rhadamanth> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020220090556.GA2535@rhadamanth>; from setantae@submonkey.net on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:05:56AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:05:56AM +0000, Ceri wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 07:50:02PM -0800, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > > Please review this, it has alot of your ideas, but a few of my own > > tossed in here. I did cover more ground than listed, and have yet > > to touch the amd part, well, more than the first paragraph hehe > > This is a large patch, so I am going to be as terse as possible with my > comments; sorry to stick my oar in, if Michael and yourself would rather > sort this out between yourselves that's cool too. Oh, I'm certainly not in charge of this. I entered the PR by popular request, so that other people would do the work... too busy fixing up my own book to do it myself. :) Tom, What Ceri said. Do try a spell checker, it's very obvious when you don't. I've written almost three million words, have published about a million, and I *still* use a spell checker. You never outgrow that. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 4:32:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643BD37B400; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 04:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KCWZB21354; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:32:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:32:34 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Dima Dorfman Cc: Nik Clayton , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: replacement Message-ID: <20020220073234.B21306@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020220094859.42B513E2F@bazooka.trit.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020220094859.42B513E2F@bazooka.trit.org>; from dima@trit.org on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:48:54AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Given how quick we are to abuse each others' work, that sounds like permission to me. Go for it, please! On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 09:48:54AM +0000, Dima Dorfman wrote: > Given the lack of noise, shall I assume that everybody is content with > the patches I posted and would like to see them committed? Unless I > hear otherwise, I plan to do just that in a few days. > > Thanks. > > I wrote: > > [ I'll try not to repeat what others have already said. ] > > > > Nik Clayton wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 10:05:49AM +0000, Dima Dorfman wrote: > > > > I propose to replace the tag with and a "role" > > > > attribute as follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Definitely 'package', not 'port'. Ports are just the infrastructure > > > that produce packages. > > > > Indeed; my change from "port" to "package" was deliberate. People > > have already given reasons for and against this, but my main > > motivation (which has only been mentioned in an off-hand manner) was > > that "port" is ambiguous; I can think of at least three different ways > > it can be interpreted in this context (TCP/UDP type ports, i386/alpha > > type ports, and cvsup/procmail type ports). Given that, as you [Nik] > > point out, FreeBSD is the only place where the definition we want is > > used, it probably isn't a good idea. If people are concerned with > > length (I haven't seen this brought up), we can use "pkg", but SGML > > isn't exactly known for being pithy. > > > > > 2. I have a nagging feeling that we should make sure the package's > > > category is included somewhere that DSSSL/XSLT stylesheets can > > > access it. > > > > > > net/cvsup > > > > > > is less easy to parse (in a stylesheet) than something like > > > > > > cvsup > > > > I don't really see how the category would be useful without the port > > name. Actually, the "net/" part of "net/cvsup" isn't exactly the > > category; it's the directory in which the port resides. net/cvsup is > > in `net' and `devel', but only `net/cvsup' would work in this case. > > Either way, I don't see how we could use the category. > > > > I guess I'm not really objecting to this, but rather I'm not sure it's > > worth the trouble. I can't see how it would help, and it adds more > > verbosity (as if there wasn't enough (I know SGML is verbose by > > nature, but I don't have to like it)). If [most] people disagree with > > me, I'll do the (trivial) work to make it happen. > > > > The second construct above is also ugly in that it adds a > > `role'-sensitive `category' attribute. It isn't really invalid, but > > it certainly isn't elegant. > > > > > We can always make these entities, something like > > > > > > &pkg.net.cvsup; > > > > I don't really have anything to add on this point except to point out > > that if we eventually decide to do this people will want to replace > > all occurances of '' with entities at once, > > I'd rather only have to do one mass-commit (i.e., get it done right > > the first time). If, on the other hand, people would be content with > > having some documents (or parts of documents) use entities while > > others use directly, I'd rather get everything > > converted to the latter for now and leave this discussion (and > > decision) for later. > > > > Thanks, everyone, for your comments. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 5:11:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f188.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.188]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9938D37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 05:11:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 05:11:41 -0800 Received: from 203.220.201.237 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:11:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.220.201.237] From: "Adam Jones" To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:11:41 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2002 13:11:41.0377 (UTC) FILETIME=[2312EB10:01C1BA10] Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I was wondering where on your site I could find a guide to the technical outline of freebsd, particularly the technical difference between this and other linux versions ie. linux, openBSD and netBSD. Anyhelp on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. Adam Jones _________________________________________________________________ Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 7:14:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29CC937B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:14:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (lcl234.zbzoom.net [208.236.36.234]) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1KFGVv19868; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:16:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3C73BFE4.7050509@pittgoth.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:25:24 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes Reply-To: darklogik@pittgoth.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20011221 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: Ceri , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff References: <200202200350.g1K3o2D95303@freefall.freebsd.org> <20020220090556.GA2535@rhadamanth> <20020220073026.A21306@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Lucas wrote: Hold on, Ceri, MW. I have submitted two patches, the first one, but then noticed a few mistakes and redid it. Could you 2 review THAT patch instead please? Thanks ;) -- Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes www.Pittgoth.com Gothic Liberation Front www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 7:20: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E30837B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KFK2g72101; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08BD137B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KFFp171506; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:15:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200202201515.g1KFFp171506@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:15:52 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Greenwald To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/35140: How to enable DPMS support in XFree86-4 isn't mentioned in the handbook Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 35140 >Category: docs >Synopsis: How to enable DPMS support in XFree86-4 isn't mentioned in the handbook >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Wed Feb 20 07:20:01 PST 2002 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Erik Greenwald >Release: >Organization: >Environment: >Description: There was a false bug reported for the XFree86-4 port due to misconfiguration (ports/32491 c). The close reason was also false, this patch is a paragraph for the handbook that describes the 'trick' to getting DPMS working with X4 >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: --- en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11/chapter.sgml.orig Wed Feb 20 09:02:11 2002 +++ en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11/chapter.sgml Wed Feb 20 09:07:39 2002@@ -407,6 +407,15 @@ keyword. In the example above the target monitor's rates where entered. + X allows DPMS (Energy Star) features to be used with capable + monitors. The 'xset' program controls the time-outs and can force + standby, suspend, or off modes. If you wish to enable DPMS features + for your monitor, you must add the following line to the monitor + section. + + + Option "DPMS" + XF86Config >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 8:52:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6FC37B404; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KGhAl91097; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:43:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:43:10 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200202201643.g1KGhAl91097@freefall.freebsd.org> To: cjc@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/26943: [patch] description of :C modifier is misplaced in make.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: [patch] description of :C modifier is misplaced in make.1 Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-bugs->freebsd-doc Responsible-Changed-By: cjc Responsible-Changed-When: Wed Feb 20 08:42:11 PST 2002 Responsible-Changed-Why: The docs guys can take care of this, please? http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=26943 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 9: 3:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost.kconline.com (mailhost.kconline.com [216.241.132.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20A737B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.kconline.com (localhost.kconline.com [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.kconline.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1KH34a5053641; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:03:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lamar@ns.kconline.com) Received: from localhost (lamar@localhost) by mailhost.kconline.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) with ESMTP id g1KH33kv053605; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:03:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lamar@ns.kconline.com) X-Authentication-Warning: mailhost.kconline.com: lamar owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:03:03 -0500 (EST) From: Lamar Peugh To: Adam Jones Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020220115741.V38632-100000@mailhost.kconline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Adam Jones wrote: > > > Hi, > I was wondering where on your site I could find a guide to the techni= cal > outline of freebsd, particularly the technical difference between this an= d > other linux versions ie. linux, openBSD and netBSD. Anyhelp on this matte= r > would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. > > Adam Jones Adam, This is actually the wrong list for this type of question -- freebsd-questions@freebsd.org would be more appropriate since freebsd-doc@ is for documentation discussion. However, to answer your question, try here: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/explaining-bsd/index.ht= ml This may not be as technical as you'd like, but it's a start.. :-) > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message Best Regards, -- Lamar Peugh KC Online System Administration - sysadmin@kconline.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 9:17: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail4.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD8B37B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:17:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from greid.oriel.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.146.151] helo=sobek.lan) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16daMW-0007Ns-04; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:17:00 +0000 Received: (from greid@localhost) by sobek.lan (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KHH0i53872; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:17:00 GMT (envelope-from greid@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: sobek.lan: greid set sender to greid@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:16:59 +0000 From: George Reid To: Tom Rhodes Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/35098: [new patch] handbook NFS, sorry Message-ID: <20020220171659.A53662@FreeBSD.org> References: <200202200530.g1K5U3Q13772@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200202200530.g1K5U3Q13772@freefall.freebsd.org>; from darklogik@pittgoth.com on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:30:03PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:30:03PM -0800, Tom Rhodes wrote: A couple of comments... > Major apologies, lol. I was reading over the diff on the pr > site, and noticed some mistakes, and improvments that could and should > be made. So, here again, another patch, fixing a few spelling > errors, and even some grammer ;) Grammar :P > - NFS has several benefits: > + Some of the benefits for using NFS are: Should be "benefits of". What was wrong with the old text, besides the omission of ? > + NFS consists of at least two main parts; a client Should be a colon, not a semicolon. > - Read the &man.fstab.5; manual page for more options. > + The &man.fstab.5; manual page will show many more options > + that are available here. This does not make sense. Did you mean "...than are available here" or "...that are not available here"? > + Setup several machines on a network to share a CDROM or > + floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more convenient. "to setup" is not a verb. -- George C A Reid Tel: (08701) 200870 Ext. 26654 FreeBSD Committer/Developer greid@FreeBSD.org Oriel College, Oxford University george.reid@oriel.ox.ac.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 9:44:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.teledis.be (mail.teledis.be [217.117.32.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E3F37B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from natalie.atlantys.net ([217.117.55.108]) by mail.teledis.be (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GRUEMB01.J9O for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:44:36 +0100 Subject: error in sysctl_{add|remove}_oid(9) ? From: Sansonetti Laurent To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.1 Date: 20 Feb 2002 18:42:29 +0000 Message-Id: <1014230550.55793.7.camel@natalie.atlantys.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I think there is an error in both man-pages for sysctl_add_oid(9) and sysctl_remove_oid(9), in the examples (s/CTFLAG/CTLFLAG/). Hope that helps, -- Sansonetti Laurent - http://lrz.linuxbe.org PS: i'm _not_ in -doc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 11:42:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E5B37B493 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KJe1x31882; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:40:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Received: from zen.estpak.ee (zen.estpak.ee [194.126.101.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F9A37B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp618.estpak.ee (ppp618.estpak.ee [213.168.0.112]) by zen.estpak.ee (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ADAC6E92D for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:36:37 +0200 (EET) Received: (from priitp@localhost) by minerva.meskaliin.ee (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KK0Kf62551; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:00:20 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from priitp) Message-Id: <200202202000.g1KK0Kf62551@minerva.meskaliin.ee> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:00:20 +0200 (EET) From: Priit Piipuu Reply-To: Priit Piipuu To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Subject: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 35155 >Category: docs >Synopsis: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Wed Feb 20 11:40:01 PST 2002 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Priit Piipuu >Release: FreeBSD 4.5-RC i386 >Organization: >Environment: System: FreeBSD minerva 4.5-RC FreeBSD 4.5-RC #2: Fri Jan 18 20:57:36 EET 2002 priitp@minerva:/usr/src/sys/compile/tuum i386 >Description: Add missing quote tags, port number change (in next paragraph, different number will be used) etc. >How-To-Repeat: Read the source ;-) >Fix: --- diff begins here --- --- chapter.sgml.old Wed Feb 20 20:59:44 2002 +++ chapter.sgml Wed Feb 20 20:40:32 2002 @@ -994,7 +994,7 @@ If there are no conflicts listed then you can skip this step. Otherwise, the remaining conflicts need to be examined. If they - do not have the indication of an "allowed conflict" in the message + do not have the indication of an allowed conflict in the message area, then either the IRQ/address for device probe will need to be changed, or the IRQ/address on the hardware will need to be changed. @@ -2705,7 +2705,7 @@ the real server. For example, assuming you want to install from ftp.FreeBSD.org, using the proxy FTP server foo.example.com, listening on port - 1024. + 1234. In this case, you go to the options menu, set the FTP username to ftp@ftp.FreeBSD.org, and the password to your @@ -2958,7 +2958,7 @@ Choosing [ Yes ] and pressing Enter will bring - the machine up on the network and be ready for use after leaving + the machine up on the network and be ready for use after leaving the installation. @@ -4217,7 +4217,7 @@ use a shell that does not exist or you will not be able to login. - The user was also added to the group "wheel" to be able to + The user was also added to the group wheel to be able to become a superuser with root privileges. When you are satisfied, press &gui.ok; and @@ -4514,7 +4514,7 @@ Please press any key to reboot. It is safe to turn off the power after the shutdown command - has been issued and the message "Please press any key to reboot" + has been issued and the message Please press any key to reboot appears. If any key is pressed instead of turning off the power switch, the system will reboot. @@ -4821,7 +4821,7 @@ headless (serial console) serial console - This type of installation is called a "headless install", + This type of installation is called a headless install, because the machine that you are trying to install FreeBSD on either does not have a monitor attached to it, or does not even have a VGA output. How is this possible you ask? Using a @@ -4928,9 +4928,9 @@ Here is where you must set the floppy to boot into a serial console. You have to make a file called - boot.config containing "/boot/loader - -h". All this does is pass a flag to the bootloader to - boot into a serial console. + boot.config containing + /boot/loader -h. All this does is pass a flag to + the bootloader to boot into a serial console. &prompt.root; echo "/boot/loader -h" > boot.config @@ -5002,7 +5002,7 @@ FreeBSD installation media and/or source. This might be physical media, such as a tape, or a source that Sysinstall can use to retrieve the files, such as a local FTP site, or an MS-DOS - partition. For example; + partition. For example: --- diff ends here --- >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 12: 0:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96CA137B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:00:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KK08V36428; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:00:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:00:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202202000.g1KK08V36428@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Michael Lucas Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 Reply-To: Michael Lucas Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35155; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Michael Lucas To: Priit Piipuu Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:50:11 -0500 Priit, Thanks for the patch. You're mixing some whitespace changes with content changes, however, to wit: > Here is where you must set the floppy to boot into a > serial console. You have to make a file called > - boot.config containing "/boot/loader > - -h". All this does is pass a flag to the bootloader to > - boot into a serial console. > + boot.config containing > + /boot/loader -h. All this does is pass a flag to > + the bootloader to boot into a serial console. > The last line here is a gratuitous whitespace diff. We'd appreciate a correction. Thanks for your efforts! ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 12: 7:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from web12504.mail.yahoo.com (web12504.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C416037B416 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:07:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020220200745.70803.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [157.182.44.249] by web12504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:07:45 PST Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:07:45 -0800 (PST) From: praveen polishetty Subject: Freebsd 3.3 To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Thanks for the reply.I would like to download the FreeBSD 3.3 on my system.I would appreciate if you csn sedn me the link to download the 3.3 version. Thanks, praveen polishetty ===== Praveen kumar Polishetty, 445,oakland street, Apt#401, Morgantown,wv-26505 Ph:304-598-7418(R) 304-293-7226 Ext:4203(O) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 12:14:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail5.speakeasy.net (mail5.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031FB37B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:14:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 26118 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 20:14:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jim) ([216.254.112.158]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Feb 2002 20:14:12 -0000 Message-ID: <02ea01c1ba4b$347b1680$9e70fed8@jim> From: "James N. Fields" To: Subject: We are a FreeBSD Company Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:14:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02E7_01C1BA21.3CE82B20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02E7_01C1BA21.3CE82B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear FreeBSD Associate, We are proud to be software company whose solutions run on FreeBSD. Please consider placing a link to our organisation in the Commercial vendors list @ http://www.freebsd.org/gallery/cgallery.html Best Regards, James Fields James N. Fields Axista, Inc. NY Axista.com New York 212-286-9657 800.926.5525 ------=_NextPart_000_02E7_01C1BA21.3CE82B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear FreeBSD Associate,

We are proud to be software company = whose solutions=20 run

on FreeBSD. Please consider = placing a link to=20 our

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http://www.freebsd.= org/gallery/cgallery.html

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------=_NextPart_000_02E7_01C1BA21.3CE82B20-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 12:32:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from straylight.ringlet.net (discworld.nanolink.com [217.75.135.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CC3E237B416 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 92328 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Feb 2002 18:53:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:53:31 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: praveen polishetty Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Freebsd 3.3 Message-ID: <20020220205331.M334@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: praveen polishetty , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org References: <20020220200745.70803.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mPOSj6iWmtyhwOMz" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020220200745.70803.qmail@web12504.mail.yahoo.com>; from poli_praveen@yahoo.com on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 12:07:45PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --mPOSj6iWmtyhwOMz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 12:07:45PM -0800, praveen polishetty wrote: > Hi, > Thanks for the reply.I would like to download the > FreeBSD 3.3 on my system.I would appreciate if you csn > sedn me the link to download the 3.3 version. > Thanks, > praveen polishetty (I already replied privately to a message praveen sent directly to me; resending my reply with a CC to the list..) Do you mean that you want to get the Elephant implementation for FreeBSD 3.3, or that you want to install the FreeBSD 3.3 operating system on your computer? If it is Elephant, then you should really contact Dr. Michael J. Feeley, as I explained in my last e-mail; he is the only person who has the Elephant implementation source code. If it is FreeBSD itself, then I would have to ask - why do you want to install FreeBSD 3.3, when there are lots of new and exciting things in the newest version, FreeBSD 4.5? :) If you still think that you want 3.3, you could try.. or no, you could not try ftp.FreeBSD.org or the closest mirror; no mirrors carry 3.3 now. The only 3.x version that is still out there is 3.5.1 at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/3.5.1/ I would still recommend giving 4.5 a try first, though. G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 because I didn't think of a good beginning of it. --mPOSj6iWmtyhwOMz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxz8KsACgkQ7Ri2jRYZRVNTHACfWySwfBSykRvaJvAEY/jq4ZqQ i3MAoIaJg2ujpnD/nZAcCo8R6Wmdpduf =dVZT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mPOSj6iWmtyhwOMz-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 14:30:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E44837B4BB; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a141.otenet.gr [212.205.215.141]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1KMTC6w027207; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:29:14 +0200 (EET) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KMKCg09329; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:20:13 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:20:12 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Dima Dorfman Cc: Nik Clayton , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: replacement Message-ID: <20020220222012.GG4307@hades.hell.gr> References: <20020220094859.42B513E2F@bazooka.trit.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020220094859.42B513E2F@bazooka.trit.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-02-20 09:48, Dima Dorfman wrote: > Given the lack of noise, shall I assume that everybody is content with > the patches I posted and would like to see them committed? Unless I > hear otherwise, I plan to do just that in a few days. Yes, please do. Keeping the patches updated as more texts are added is either going to make you drop the idea, or work twice as much to reroll the patches after a month's time, when someone suggests the same thing you have ready now... - giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 14:57:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mxout1.netvision.net.il (mxout1.netvision.net.il [194.90.9.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92D637B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:57:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from alex ([62.0.137.24]) by mxout1.netvision.net.il (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Sep 5 2001)) with SMTP id <0GRU00KNBT3WJQ@mxout1.netvision.net.il> for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:57:35 +0200 (IST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:57:33 +0200 From: Alex Subject: To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 15:10:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E049837B41A for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id C13C1AE25C; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:10:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:10:14 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: document hw.physmem please? Message-ID: <20020220231014.GL12136@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can someone please document the hw.physmem loader tunable, especially what type of units it's supposed to be expressed in? thanks, -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 15:16:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB18037B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:16:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a141.otenet.gr [212.205.215.141]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1KNG66w005919; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:16:07 +0200 (EET) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KNG5X11297; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:16:05 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:16:05 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: document hw.physmem please? Message-ID: <20020220231605.GB10197@hades.hell.gr> References: <20020220231014.GL12136@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020220231014.GL12136@elvis.mu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-02-20 15:10, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Can someone please document the hw.physmem loader tunable, especially > what type of units it's supposed to be expressed in? It's bytes, ain't it? Giorgos Keramidas FreeBSD Documentation Project keramida@{freebsd.org,ceid.upatras.gr} http://www.FreeBSD.org/docproj/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 15:50: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from larkin.dyndns.org (dhcp065-024-027-109.columbus.rr.com [65.24.27.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8B37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by larkin.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EF1902D19; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:50:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:50:02 -0500 From: "Jason R. McVetta" To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: error in listing of CD vendors Message-ID: <20020220185002.A3995@larkin.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sirs, There is an error in the handbook Appendix A.1.1 ("Retail Boxed Products"): Microcenter no longer carries FreeBSD CDs. I have confirmed this both by asking a salesman at the local store, and by performing a search on their website. Regards, J -- Jason R. McVetta Larkin.DynDNS.org/~jmcvetta "A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who has never learned to walk." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 15:50:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 174B837B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 18374 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 00:05:51 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 00:05:51 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA23459 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:52:38 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7578 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 23:44:07 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 23:44:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:53:43 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: inconsistent use of data units Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi. The FreeBSD handbook does not consistently use one notation for data sizes. For instance, in the Install FAQ http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/install.html sometimes "K" is used, sometimes "kB" is used. Likewise, sometimes "T" is used, sometimes "TB" is used. There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. Also note, that there should always be a space between the number and the unit (e.g. "640 kB, not "640kB"). Regards -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 16: 9:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5CC37B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:09:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a141.otenet.gr [212.205.215.141]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1L0966w026111; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:09:07 +0200 (EET) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1L095A11733; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:09:05 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:09:05 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Michael Wardle Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020221000904.GA11700@hades.hell.gr> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-02-21 10:53, Michael Wardle wrote: > ... > There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: > http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html > > I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. > > Also note, that there should always be a space between the number and > the unit (e.g. "640 kB, not "640kB"). /me votes for and fires up browser to that page. I would prefer for only one reason. It would seem rather awkward to read lines like: ... You have to create a swap partition at least 64 Mb for this to work... with the number at the end of a line, and the units at the beginning of the next line. Giorgos Keramidas FreeBSD Documentation Project keramida@{freebsd.org,ceid.upatras.gr} http://www.FreeBSD.org/docproj/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 16:31:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC0537B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a141.otenet.gr [212.205.215.141]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1L0VH6w016986; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:31:18 +0200 (EET) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1L0VGl11932; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:31:16 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:31:16 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Michael Wardle Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-02-21 10:53, Michael Wardle wrote: > Hi. > > There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: > http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html > > I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. Reading that page, all I have to say is "NO. Good grief, no." Mebibit ? Kibibit ? Ye gods. I would probably prefer it if we consistently used KB for Kilobyte(s), and MB for Megabytes, but having different symbols for units that are multiples of 1024 and other symbols/contractions for multiples of 1000! No, please no. Giorgos Keramidas FreeBSD Documentation Project keramida@{freebsd.org,ceid.upatras.gr} http://www.FreeBSD.org/docproj/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 17:26:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A310637B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:26:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 32560 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 01:40:36 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 01:40:36 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA29705 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:27:21 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7629 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 01:18:49 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 01:18:49 -0000 Message-ID: <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:28:25 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2002-02-21 10:53, Michael Wardle wrote: > >>Hi. >> >>There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: >>http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html >> >>I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. >> > > Reading that page, all I have to say is "NO. Good grief, no." > Mebibit ? Kibibit ? Ye gods. Yes, short for binary megabyte and binary kilobyte. Call them the full name if you can't get your tongue around the sort versions. > I would probably prefer it if we consistently used KB for Kilobyte(s), > and MB for Megabytes, but having different symbols for units that are > multiples of 1024 and other symbols/contractions for multiples of 1000! > No, please no. Like it or not, 1000 bytes != 1024 bytes. KB (or preferably kB) means 1000 bytes, and that's not the units we usually talk about. -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 17:39:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from descent.robbins.dropbear.id.au (053.a.010.mel.iprimus.net.au [210.50.200.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE4937B41D for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tim@localhost) by descent.robbins.dropbear.id.au (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1L1VJr33323 for doc@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:31:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from tim) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:31:19 +1100 From: Tim Robbins To: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020221123119.A33316@descent.robbins.dropbear.id.au> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com>; from michael.wardle@adacel.com on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:28:25PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:28:25PM +1100, Michael Wardle wrote: > Like it or not, 1000 bytes != 1024 bytes. KB (or preferably kB) means > 1000 bytes, and that's not the units we usually talk about. Like it or not, kilobytes are what people have been using for years. Sure, it's a little confusing having "kilo" mean different things depending on context, but not nearly as confusing as trying to get everyone to use these new cat-food units. Can you give an example of an operating system other than Linux (and then, last time I checked only the kernel used KiB etc.)? Tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 17:40:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from vms4.rit.edu (vms4.isc.rit.edu [129.21.3.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D659537B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sonic.rit.edu ([129.21.10.1]) by ritvax.isc.rit.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40294) with ESMTPA id <01KEIDT4F2QQF37EMK@ritvax.isc.rit.edu> for doc@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:40:48 EST Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:39:34 -0500 From: Matt Penna Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units In-reply-to: <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> X-Sender: mdp1261@vmspop.isc.rit.edu To: doc@freebsd.org Message-id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020220202721.01da82a0@vmspop.isc.rit.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:31 AM 2/21/02 +0200, you wrote: >On 2002-02-21 10:53, Michael Wardle wrote: > > Hi. > > > > There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: > > http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html > > > > I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. > >Reading that page, all I have to say is "NO. Good grief, no." >Mebibit ? Kibibit ? Ye gods. > >I would probably prefer it if we consistently used KB for Kilobyte(s), >and MB for Megabytes, but having different symbols for units that are >multiples of 1024 and other symbols/contractions for multiples of 1000! >No, please no. Seeing this thread jogged my memory about something else. Way, way back (10+ years), I was taught that a lower-case 'b,' e.g., 2400bps, meant "bits" and a capital 'b,' e.g., 640kB, meant "bytes." Is this correct? If it is, then the confusion of these is a mistake I see quite frequently, too. Incidentally, I agree with Giorgos - "mebibits?" I'm all for being technically correct, but correctness at the expense of clarity is probably not the best idea. Mebibits is not in any of my standard English dictionaries. If I saw the term outside the context of this discussion, I would have no idea what was being said. Matt -- Matt Penna mdp1261@rit.edu ICQ: 399825 S0ba on AOLIM "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they're very sophisticated idiots." -Dr. Who To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 17:50:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from amsfep14-int.chello.nl (amsfep14-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EAC337B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from hibernate.cryolabs.net ([213.132.151.88]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20020221015048.XWCK24661.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@hibernate.cryolabs.net> for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:50:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 17833 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 02:50:46 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO cocaine.cryolabs.net) (192.168.196.5) by hibernate.cryolabs.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 02:50:46 +0100 Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units From: Wouter Van Hemel To: Michael Wardle Cc: Giorgos Keramidas , doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 21 Feb 2002 02:50:50 +0100 Message-Id: <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 02:28, Michael Wardle wrote: > Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > On 2002-02-21 10:53, Michael Wardle wrote: > > > >>Hi. > >> > >>There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: > >>http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html > >> > >>I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. > >> > > > > Reading that page, all I have to say is "NO. Good grief, no." > > Mebibit ? Kibibit ? Ye gods. > > Yes, short for binary megabyte and binary kilobyte. Call them the full > name if you can't get your tongue around the sort versions. > > > I would probably prefer it if we consistently used KB for Kilobyte(s), > > and MB for Megabytes, but having different symbols for units that are > > multiples of 1024 and other symbols/contractions for multiples of 1000! > > No, please no. > > Like it or not, 1000 bytes != 1024 bytes. KB (or preferably kB) means > 1000 bytes, and that's not the units we usually talk about. > So you think this would make things _less_ confusing... Interesting. If we consistently use kb and mb (_with_ space...), and mention somewhere that all units are powers of 2, wouldn't that settle it... Kind regards, wouter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 18: 5:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B3FB37B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:05:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 3116 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 02:19:02 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 02:19:02 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA01796 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:05:45 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7649 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 01:57:14 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 01:57:14 -0000 Message-ID: <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:06:49 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wouter Van Hemel Cc: Giorgos Keramidas , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wouter Van Hemel wrote: >>>>There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: >>>>http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html >>>> >>>>I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. [...] >>>I would probably prefer it if we consistently used KB for Kilobyte(s), >>>and MB for Megabytes, but having different symbols for units that are >>>multiples of 1024 and other symbols/contractions for multiples of 1000! >>>No, please no. >>> >>Like it or not, 1000 bytes != 1024 bytes. KB (or preferably kB) means >>1000 bytes, and that's not the units we usually talk about. >> > > So you think this would make things _less_ confusing... Interesting. It would follow a standard, and would remove ambiguity. The current kludge of calling 1024 a kilobyte is incorrect, and is actually rather confusing to anybody who is familiar with metric/SI, which defined kilo as exactly 1000 quite some time ago. You'll also notice that those from an engineering, physics, networking, or hard disk manufacture prefer kilobyte = 1000 bytes (as it should do). > If we consistently use kb and mb (_with_ space...), You meant "KB" and "MB", right? (kb = kilobits, mb = millibits)... > and mention somewhere that all units are powers of 2, wouldn't that > settle it... It wouldn't be ideal in my mind, but at least it would be consistent. Thanks everybody for your interest and prompt responses. Regards -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 18:23:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792A637B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a141.otenet.gr [212.205.215.141]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1L2MQ6w019041; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 04:22:28 +0200 (EET) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1L2MQD13017; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 04:22:26 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 04:22:25 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Michael Wardle Cc: Wouter Van Hemel , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-02-21 13:06, Michael Wardle wrote: > Wouter Van Hemel wrote: > >>>>There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: > >>>>http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html > >>>> > >>>>I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this > >>>>standard. > > [...] > > >>>I would probably prefer it if we consistently used KB for Kilobyte(s), > >>>and MB for Megabytes, but having different symbols for units that are > >>>multiples of 1024 and other symbols/contractions for multiples of 1000! > >>>No, please no. > >>> > >>Like it or not, 1000 bytes != 1024 bytes. KB (or preferably kB) means > >>1000 bytes, and that's not the units we usually talk about. > >> > > > >So you think this would make things _less_ confusing... Interesting. > > It would follow a standard, and would remove ambiguity. The current > kludge of calling 1024 a kilobyte is incorrect, and is actually rather > confusing to anybody who is familiar with metric/SI, which defined kilo > as exactly 1000 quite some time ago. > > You'll also notice that those from an engineering, physics, networking, > or hard disk manufacture prefer kilobyte = 1000 bytes (as it should do). > > >If we consistently use kb and mb (_with_ space...), > > You meant "KB" and "MB", right? (kb = kilobits, mb = millibits)... Well, I want my bikeshed green. And I'd prefer it all (consistently) written as shown below: Short form Long form ================================== 1 MB 1 Megabyte 1 KB 1 Kilobyte 1 Mbit 1 Mebagit 1 Kbit 1 Kilobit This way, there is no confusion as to whether Mb refers to bytes or bits. Bytes are always capitalized, and denoted by appending 'B', and bits are explicitly mentioned as 'bits' without capitalization. This last Mbit/Kbit notation seems rather clear, and it seems to be some sort of a de facto standard among people working on routers and telecomm guys. Now, that 1024 vs. 1000 thread, I think I've seen it a few times. I'll probably avoid enforcing a rule, since for sectors, whose size is 512 bytes, it's customary to refer to 1 KB as 2 sectors, but when we're talking about bits, and using Kbit/s it's probably more appropriate to (implicitly) define 1 Kbit as 1000 bits. Giorgos Keramidas FreeBSD Documentation Project keramida@{freebsd.org,ceid.upatras.gr} http://www.FreeBSD.org/docproj/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 18:36:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6EA9A37B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 5542 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 02:50:18 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 02:50:18 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA03659 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:37:00 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7674 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 02:28:27 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 02:28:27 -0000 Message-ID: <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:38:03 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Wouter Van Hemel , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >>>>>>There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: >>>>>>http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html >>>>>> >>>>>>I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this >>>>>>standard. [...] > ...I'd prefer it all (consistently) written as shown below: > > Short form Long form > ================================== > 1 MB 1 Megabyte > 1 KB 1 Kilobyte > 1 Mbit 1 Mebagit > 1 Kbit 1 Kilobit I disagree with this notation, however: - it is not my decision - provided this is used consistently, it will be better than what is used in the documentation currently Despite there being some disagreement with what the prefixes (K, M, ...) are, (byte = "B") and (bit = "b") are the most used notations. In this light, I would suggest "Kb" and "Mb" for kilobyte and megabyte in your notation. I doubt whether I will convince you in the near future that KiB, MiB, and so on are correct, but I think it would be useful to agree on a common style (such as the one you suggested, Giorgos) for FreeBSD documentation and to use it consistently. Yours -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 18:54: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0BF37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from sdn-ar-007dcwashp195.dialsprint.net ([63.178.91.107] helo=moo.holy.cow) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16djKu-0002qm-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:51:56 -0800 Received: by moo.holy.cow (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9BBC150B87; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:53:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:53:58 -0500 From: parv To: Michael Wardle Cc: Giorgos Keramidas , Wouter Van Hemel , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org in message <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com>, wrote Michael Wardle thusly... > > Despite there being some disagreement with what the prefixes (K, M, ...) > are, (byte = "B") and (bit = "b") are the most used notations. In this > light, I would suggest "Kb" and "Mb" for kilobyte and megabyte in your > notation. "b" for "byte"? are you mad? even 'B' & 'bit' example given earlier is saner. i don't have problem using either 'k' or 'K' for representing 'kilo' (1024). i have seen/used 'k' for 'kilo' but haven't seen any usage 'm' for 'mega' only 'M'. (note to self: having said that, i feel very odd that i had used 'k' instead of 'K' while using 'M' for 'mega'. so, to be self consistent, i will use 'K' instead henceforth.) and ... unless noted otherwise, in computer context, i do not ever assume 'kilo' to represent 1000 number, only 1024. - parv -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 19: 5:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B3137B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (zbay5-20.fyi.net [206.80.158.20]) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L2xmv20909; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:59:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3C7463A5.5060204@pittgoth.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:04:05 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010628 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Wardle Cc: Wouter Van Hemel , Giorgos Keramidas , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Wardle wrote: This is confusing me... Let me throw my "vision" in here... 1000 is very easy for a human to work with, mainly newbies, but I like the 1024. The reason I think that is because 1024 is more "realistic" because there are 1024 numbers from 0 to 1023, and 1023 seems to be 10 bits in binary: 11 1111 1111, which is a very convient binary value. So, whilist 1000 may be a very easy decimal value for a human to work with (1111101000) I don't feel that it looks "nice" for a binary machine. Yes, a bit of thought went into this, and I understand that standards are standards, but I am trying to put understand this from, what I feel, is a "logical" view point... Although my view alone --Tom Rhodes A tad bit of topic, but whatever To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 19: 6:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C76937B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 8216 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 03:20:49 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 03:20:49 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05401 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:07:31 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7702 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 02:59:00 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 02:59:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:08:36 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: parv Cc: Giorgos Keramidas , Wouter Van Hemel , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org parv wrote: > in message <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com>, > wrote Michael Wardle thusly... > >>Despite there being some disagreement with what the prefixes (K, M, ...) >>are, (byte = "B") and (bit = "b") are the most used notations. In this >>light, I would suggest "Kb" and "Mb" for kilobyte and megabyte in your >>notation. > > "b" for "byte"? are you mad? even 'B' & 'bit' example given earlier > is saner. See? Even I'm getting confused! :-P As the first part of my comment suggested, lowercase for bit, uppercase for byte. Sorry for any confusion. > i don't have problem using either 'k' or 'K' for representing 'kilo' > (1024). i have seen/used 'k' for 'kilo' but haven't seen any usage > 'm' for 'mega' only 'M'. > > (note to self: having said that, i feel very odd that i had used 'k' > instead of 'K' while using 'M' for 'mega'. so, to be self > consistent, i will use 'K' instead henceforth.) The SI prefixes define {k,M,G,T,...}. I don't know why lowercase "k" was chosen, while the rest were uppercase. (I suspect it's to do with kelvin ("K") being the unit of absolute temperature, but this has made the standard inconsistent. Nonetheless, that's how it is.) > and ... unless noted otherwise, in computer context, i do not ever > assume 'kilo' to represent 1000 number, only 1024. This is part of the problem. kilo only ever means 1000, and to use it otherwise is incorrect. You can not steal SI prefixes and redefine them how you wish. -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 19: 8:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B1F37B431 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:08:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (zbay5-20.fyi.net [206.80.158.20]) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L2nov20894; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:49:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3C74614F.9000703@pittgoth.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:54:07 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010628 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Penna Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020220202721.01da82a0@vmspop.isc.rit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matt Penna wrote: > > Incidentally, I agree with Giorgos - "mebibits?" I'm all for being > technically correct, but correctness at the expense of clarity is > probably not the best idea. Mebibits is not in any of my standard > English dictionaries. If I saw the term outside the context of this > discussion, I would have no idea what was being said. > I highly agree here, this may even make it difficult for "translation" teams to work on. I feel standard english is fine... If anything, change the way that kb, kB, KB, Kb, is said throughout the documents, set one standard of use for these and add it to the primer. Regardless of special tags/entities/blah or however everyone feels is appropriate, lets just agree on something ;) Anyway, i'm quiet now hehe --Tom Rhodes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 19:17:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97E1E37B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 9087 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 03:31:42 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 03:31:42 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05994 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:18:22 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7715 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 03:09:50 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 03:09:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3C74673E.8010905@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:19:26 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes Cc: Wouter Van Hemel , Giorgos Keramidas , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <3C7463A5.5060204@pittgoth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tom Rhodes wrote: > This is confusing me... Let me throw my "vision" in here... > > 1000 is very easy for a human to work with, mainly newbies, but I like > the 1024. The reason I think that is because 1024 is more "realistic" > because there are 1024 numbers from 0 to 1023, and 1023 seems to be 10 > bits in binary: 11 1111 1111, which is a very convient binary value. So, > whilist 1000 may be a very easy decimal value for a human to work with > (1111101000) I don't feel that it looks "nice" for a binary machine. > > Yes, a bit of thought went into this, and I understand that standards > are standards, but I am trying to put understand this from, what I feel, > is a "logical" view point... Although my view alone Systeme International (SI) (a.k.a. "metric"), is not designed to necessarily correspond exactly to real-life phenomena. It is designed to be an aribitrary, accurate, unambiguous system. I feel that "inch" is a far nicer unit than "millimeter" for measuring small distances, and "mile" may well be nicer than "kilometer" for measuring long distances, but the reality is that more and more countries, and more and more disiplines are choosing to adopt SI for clarity. If computer scientists had wanted to define their own units for computing, then they so be it. In adopting the SI prefixes (K, M, ...), however, there was an implied decision to make computing units defacto SI units. At first, because sizes were so small, and the distinction between kilobyte (1000 bytes) and binary kilobyte (1024 bytes) was fairly unimportant, as they were so close many regarded them as being the same. Unfortunately, when you extend the units to larger sizes, the factor of error becomes larger, and a distinction between the two must be made. Modifying these prefixes for any one field substantially weakens the SI standard. I am not aware of *any* standard that prescribes 1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes, as it is clearly incorrect. The *only* official statement on this matter I am aware of is the one the IEEE, IEC, and CIPM were involved in which clearly states: 1000 bytes = 1 kilobyte (symbol "kB") 1024 bytes = 1 kibibyte (symbol "KiB") By continuing the current practise (which I must say is far from uniform), we are continuing inaccuracy and ambiguity. -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 19:44:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from bazooka.trit.org (bazooka.trit.org [63.198.170.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17A2437B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:44:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by bazooka.trit.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AE58A3E35; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:44:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bazooka (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bazooka.trit.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD08C3C12E; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:44:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Dima Dorfman To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Michael Wardle , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units In-Reply-To: <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr>; from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr on "Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:31:16 +0200" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:44:16 +0000 Message-Id: <20020221034421.AE58A3E35@bazooka.trit.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2002-02-21 10:53, Michael Wardle wrote: > > Hi. > > > > There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: > > http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html > > > > I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. > > Reading that page, all I have to say is "NO. Good grief, no." > Mebibit ? Kibibit ? Ye gods. I hate to add fuel to the fire, but I think Knuth's proposal on this topic at least deserves mention: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/news99.html (scroll down to "What is a kilobyte?"). I think the only down side to this is that it isn't a ratified standard--oh well. I'm not going to fight long and hard (read: at all) for this or any of the other proposals. I'll be content with anything as long as it's used consistently and our rationale for choosing it--regardless of what "it" is, since there's no de facto standard--is documented somewhere. P.S. There was a thread on linux-kernel late last year about this. If you're one who wishes to fight to the death over the issue, please read that thread; the time you save may be your own. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 20: 7: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 11ACA37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13951 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 04:21:10 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 04:21:10 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08936 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:07:53 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7747 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 03:59:22 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 03:59:22 -0000 Message-ID: <3C7472DA.8060106@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:08:58 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dima Dorfman Cc: Giorgos Keramidas , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <20020221034421.AE58A3E35@bazooka.trit.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dima Dorfman wrote: >>>There is a standard on how to represent data sizes here: >>>http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html >>> >>>I suggest that the document is updated to consistently use this standard. >>> >>Reading that page, all I have to say is "NO. Good grief, no." >>Mebibit ? Kibibit ? Ye gods. >> > > I hate to add fuel to the fire, but I think Knuth's proposal on this > topic at least deserves mention: > http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/news99.html (scroll down to > "What is a kilobyte?"). I think the only down side to this is that it > isn't a ratified standard--oh well. It does sort of seem a good idea, as it adapts US/Imperial terms such as "long megabyte" and so on, thus making it more acceptable to those in the US who only know US/Imperial measures and seem to dislike SI for whatever reason. The fact that it is Imperial-like, is also its downfall, however. KKB could also be interpreted as kilokilobyte (you're not supposed to do that, but it's still possible). I've also been wondering whether Kv2 (Ksub2) might be an appropriate symbol for binary-style "kilo", but as you said, the IEEE/IEC system is the closest we have to a standard, so I don't think there's much point going against all their work. > P.S. There was a thread on linux-kernel late last year about this. > If you're one who wishes to fight to the death over the issue, please > read that thread; the time you save may be your own. Thanks for that, I'll have a look there. I heard a rumor that they had actually adopted this usage in some places, tho. Regards -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 20:36:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from lists.blarg.net (lists.blarg.net [206.124.128.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F1337B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from thig.blarg.net (thig.blarg.net [206.124.128.18]) by lists.blarg.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F758BCA3; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.124.139.115]) by thig.blarg.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12678; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:36:10 -0800 Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g1L4c9I01837; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:38:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@blarg.net) To: Michael Wardle Cc: parv , Giorgos Keramidas , Wouter Van Hemel , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> From: swear@blarg.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 20 Feb 2002 20:38:08 -0800 In-Reply-To: <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> Message-ID: Lines: 25 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > and ... unless noted otherwise, in computer context, i do not ever > > assume 'kilo' to represent 1000 number, only 1024. > > This is part of the problem. kilo only ever means 1000, and to use it > otherwise is incorrect. You can not steal SI prefixes and redefine them > how you wish. SI prefixes are defined for use on SI units, aren't they? As far as I'm concerned, "byte" is a computer-industry unit with associated jargonized prefixes. When you're talking about bytes or words, k, K, M, G, T, etc, have non-SI meanings and everyone should know that. The disk drive people are just wrong; some would say liars. The case with "bits" is less well agreeded upon and if it isn't explained in the context, prefixes will confuse many and should be considered ambiguous. I'd prefer some FDP introduction explain this and that "B" means "byte" and "b" means "bit", though I wouldn't mind a requirement to use the full words except where the meaning is clear from the context or a note. P.S. It's unfortunate that our industry borrowed terms and used them in familiar contexts with strange meanings (as I hate to see happening with "proprietary", BTW), but it has happened and attempts to introduce "bi" prefixes will cause more trouble than it solves. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 21: 5:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E83D237B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:05:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 18736 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 05:18:27 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 05:18:27 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA11854 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:05:04 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7782 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 04:56:31 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 04:56:31 -0000 Message-ID: <3C74803F.4090004@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:06:07 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: parv , Giorgos Keramidas , Wouter Van Hemel , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gary W. Swearingen wrote: >>>and ... unless noted otherwise, in computer context, i do not ever >>>assume 'kilo' to represent 1000 number, only 1024. >>> >>This is part of the problem. kilo only ever means 1000, and to use it >>otherwise is incorrect. You can not steal SI prefixes and redefine them >>how you wish. >> > > SI prefixes are defined for use on SI units, aren't they? As far as I'm > concerned, "byte" is a computer-industry unit with associated jargonized > prefixes. When you're talking about bytes or words, k, K, M, G, T, etc, > have non-SI meanings... I agree that "bit" and "byte" are not formal SI units, and so do not formally fall under SI/CIPM "jurisdiction", however the choice to use SI prefixes has implicitly caused comparison between these units and SI -- not surprisingly -- and the exact meaning of kilo now needs to be clarified so as to avoid confusion, and it *can not* mean 1024, as this directly contradicts the international standard. Can you think of a sensible reason why kilobyte = 1000 bytes is not a good idea? Would I be correct in assuming that you do not use (and therefore are not familiar with) SI? > The disk drive people are just wrong; No, they are quite correct, however they are in the minority. I am not aware of any official body that has standardized kilobyte as meaning 1024 bytes. It may have been incorrectly assumed that kilobyte meant 1024 bytes, as the difference was deemed insignificant, however at no point could a kilobyte have been correctly referred to as 1024 bytes. (Same for megabyte, gigabyte, and so on.) Please point to some real evidence (preferably a standard) that proves the assertion (1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes) correct. > I'd prefer some FDP introduction explain this and that "B" means "byte" > and "b" means "bit", though I wouldn't mind a requirement to use the > full words except where the meaning is clear from the context or a note. > > > P.S. It's unfortunate that our industry borrowed terms and used them in > familiar contexts with strange meanings (as I hate to see happening with > "proprietary", BTW), but it has happened and attempts to introduce "bi" > prefixes will cause more trouble than it solves. What is the 100% formal, standardized method for referring to 1000 bytes? There is none. What is the 100% formal, standardized method for referring to 1024 bytes? There is none to my knowledge. The IEEE/IEC standard (or is it still a proposal?) is the closest thing existing that attempts to clarify and standardize on one terminology. I believe it should be given consideration (if not, it should simply be accepted), as the IEEE is definately a body relevant to electronics and computing (the first thing that springs to mind is networking standards such as IEEE 802.11). If it were the national council of skateboarding (a randomly generated organization!) with this system, then perhaps it would be sensible to ignore it, but this is the IEEE! If we continue to use "borrowed" SI prefixes in a sense other than they were intended, there will continue to be confusion. If we do what is IMHO the right thing, there may be confusion for a short period, however there will be no ambiguity (KiB can not be mistaken for something else), and people will soon become familiar with this standard. Regards -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 21:24:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from lists.blarg.net (lists.blarg.net [206.124.128.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642D237B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from thig.blarg.net (thig.blarg.net [206.124.128.18]) by lists.blarg.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF09BD52; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.124.139.115]) by thig.blarg.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24086; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:24:07 -0800 Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g1L5QHS01843; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:26:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@blarg.net) To: Michael Wardle Cc: Tom Rhodes , Wouter Van Hemel , Giorgos Keramidas , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <3C7463A5.5060204@pittgoth.com> <3C74673E.8010905@adacel.com> From: swear@blarg.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 20 Feb 2002 21:26:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: <3C74673E.8010905@adacel.com> Message-ID: <4r664rbe2u.64r@localhost.localdomain> Lines: 43 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Wardle writes: > If computer scientists had wanted to define their own units for > computing, then they so be it. In adopting the SI prefixes (K, M, ...), > however, there was an implied decision to make computing units defacto > SI units. Does that mean they decided that "bytes" were SI units and that kBytes should mean 1000 bytes? Obviously, the used a non-SI factor of 1024 and I thing the implication (the inference anyway) would be that "bytes" are NOT SI units as the prefixes are not. They just share the same names, unfortunately. SI TI (french for "IT", I'm guessing) k = 1000^1 K = 1024^1 M = 1000^2 M = 1024^2 G = 1000^3 G = 1024^3 etc... > I am not aware of *any* standard that prescribes > 1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes, as it is clearly incorrect. Other than the de facto standard, of course. Sorry; it's the standards that are incorrect if they presume to tell us that 1 kilobyte does not equal 1024 bytes. Now I've seen official standards (aerodynamic reference frame stuff) that required me to call "up" "down", and one must go along with such things sometimes. But this is not one of them. > The *only* official statement on this matter I am aware of is the one > the IEEE, IEC, and CIPM were involved in which clearly states: > > 1000 bytes = 1 kilobyte (symbol "kB") > 1024 bytes = 1 kibibyte (symbol "KiB") > > By continuing the current practise (which I must say is far from > uniform), we are continuing inaccuracy and ambiguity. But using "kB" to mean 1000 bytes would be worse than ambiguous; it would mislead most of the many FDP readers who don't take the time to memorize the FDP introductory material on documentation standards. I'd call such use inaccurate in an FDP context. (Maybe I wouldn't complain about an FDP standard that used two different sets of non-SI prefixes for these things, but I expect many others would complain.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 21:46:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC7137B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:46:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (zbay5-20.fyi.net [206.80.158.20]) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L4jvv21130; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:46:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3C747C85.6080107@pittgoth.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:50:13 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010628 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: Michael Wardle , parv , Giorgos Keramidas , Wouter Van Hemel , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I very much agree on this, it is just as easy to spell out the entire word megabyte, kilobyte, and soforth... Why not just add this to the primer (which probly needs a bit of updating anyway) and then put it to use in the current documentation? If everyone agrees on that, I will even whip up a patch tomarrow or the next so that it may be added to the FDP. Comments? -- Tom Rhodes Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > > >I'd prefer some FDP introduction explain this and that "B" means "byte" >and "b" means "bit", though I wouldn't mind a requirement to use the >full words except where the meaning is clear from the context or a note. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 21:47:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from amsfep13-int.chello.nl (amsfep13-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A0337B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from hibernate.cryolabs.net ([213.132.151.88]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20020221054742.ILEG13209.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@hibernate.cryolabs.net> for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:47:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 13285 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 06:47:24 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO cocaine.cryolabs.net) (192.168.196.5) by hibernate.cryolabs.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 06:47:24 +0100 Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units From: Wouter Van Hemel To: Michael Wardle Cc: "Gary W. Swearingen" , parv , Giorgos Keramidas , doc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3C74803F.4090004@adacel.com> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> <3C74803F.4090004@adacel.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 21 Feb 2002 06:47:29 +0100 Message-Id: <1014270449.303.117.camel@cocaine> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 06:06, Michael Wardle wrote: > Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > >>>and ... unless noted otherwise, in computer context, i do not ever > >>>assume 'kilo' to represent 1000 number, only 1024. > >>> > >>This is part of the problem. kilo only ever means 1000, and to use it > >>otherwise is incorrect. You can not steal SI prefixes and redefine them > >>how you wish. > >> > > > > SI prefixes are defined for use on SI units, aren't they? As far as I'm > > concerned, "byte" is a computer-industry unit with associated jargonized > > prefixes. When you're talking about bytes or words, k, K, M, G, T, etc, > > have non-SI meanings... > > I agree that "bit" and "byte" are not formal SI units, and so do not > formally fall under SI/CIPM "jurisdiction", however the choice to use SI > prefixes has implicitly caused comparison between these units and SI -- > not surprisingly -- and the exact meaning of kilo now needs to be > clarified so as to avoid confusion, and it *can not* mean 1024, as this > directly contradicts the international standard. > > Can you think of a sensible reason why kilobyte = 1000 bytes is not a > good idea? > Standards are a tool to facilitate communication, and shouldn't be considered a goal. If they do not improve understanding, or worse, make things less comprehensible, then I see no reason to adapt them. If everyone uses 'abc', why care about some far-away entity coming up with rules that nobody really cares about? (I'm not directly implying that's the case; I'm merely questioning the purpose of it all.) If we decide to comply, all occurrences in the code should be changed too, as not to create a bigger chaos. We simply can't use KiB in our documentation, and ignore the difference with the real-life topics we are documenting. This is a decision that can't be taken lightly... Surely not for something that might never find steady ground in the 'real world' (no matter how convenient or correct). If we decide not to comply, but to at least be consistent about this, well, it's just a matter of agreeing on _something_. Whatever we do, there should be consistency. (I have a feeling this discussion isn't even remotely over yet...) > Would I be correct in assuming that you do not use (and therefore are > not familiar with) SI? > That's not the most important thing here. How can we expect, getting confused ourselves, to write clear documentation to possibly less technical people? And on a side note, the documentation should follow the system; in case of KiB adaptation, this should start in de code, and only _then_ we can adapt the docs to reflect the system. > > The disk drive people are just wrong; > > No, they are quite correct, however they are in the minority. > > I am not aware of any official body that has standardized kilobyte as > meaning 1024 bytes. It may have been incorrectly assumed that kilobyte > meant 1024 bytes, as the difference was deemed insignificant, however at > no point could a kilobyte have been correctly referred to as 1024 bytes. > (Same for megabyte, gigabyte, and so on.) > > Please point to some real evidence (preferably a standard) that proves > the assertion (1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes) correct. > I'd like to say it again: that doesn't matter, in my eyes. We are _not_ the ones who come up (or should come up) with these regulations; our 'job' is writing documenation that's easy to understand. Whichever choice leads to that; regardless of SI. > > I'd prefer some FDP introduction explain this and that "B" means "byte" > > and "b" means "bit", though I wouldn't mind a requirement to use the > > full words except where the meaning is clear from the context or a note. > > > > > > P.S. It's unfortunate that our industry borrowed terms and used them in > > familiar contexts with strange meanings (as I hate to see happening with > > "proprietary", BTW), but it has happened and attempts to introduce "bi" > > prefixes will cause more trouble than it solves. > > What is the 100% formal, standardized method for referring to 1000 > bytes? There is none. What is the 100% formal, standardized method for > referring to 1024 bytes? There is none to my knowledge. > [...] Regards, Wouter Van Hemel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 21:55:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1948D37B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:55:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23436 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 06:11:20 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 06:11:20 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA15087 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:58:02 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7816 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 05:49:30 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 05:49:30 -0000 Message-ID: <3C748CAA.9060805@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:59:06 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <3C7463A5.5060204@pittgoth.com> <3C74673E.8010905@adacel.com> <4r664rbe2u.64r@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > Michael Wardle writes: > > >>If computer scientists had wanted to define their own units for >>computing, then they so be it. In adopting the SI prefixes (K, M, ...), >>however, there was an implied decision to make computing units defacto >>SI units. >> > > Does that mean they decided that "bytes" were SI units and that kBytes > should mean 1000 bytes? Obviously, the used a non-SI factor of 1024 > and I thing the implication (the inference anyway) would be that "bytes" > are NOT SI units as the prefixes are not. They just share the same > names, unfortunately. No, the decision was made when the K, M, G, etc. prefixes were used. In fact, I would suggest the only reason persons understood what GB or TB meant (approximately) was the prefixes' SI roots (however loose). In the same way, it is likely that larger sizes will be termed PB, EB, ZB, YB, and so on, despite no computing body having suggested these or approved them as meaning multiples of 1024. It is not safe to assume that the prefixes (that bear an uncanny resemblance to SI prefixes) mean multiples of 1024 (or more correctly, multiples of 2^(10*n)) in the absence of any standard. As I surely have said previously: I have seen lots of different notations used for 1024 bytes, including: - k - K - kBytes - KBytes - Ko - ko - KB - kB - kb - KiB - kiB - KKB To call any of the above uniform practise would be untrue. Indeed, "KB" is probably now the most widely used, but it is not by any means uniform, unambiguous, or standardized, not to mention that the 1000 v. 1024 issue is not addressed. It surprises me that when a well-respected engineering body *does* propose a standard, that most persons I have talked to are in fact against it! > > SI TI (french for "IT", I'm guessing) I guess it would be "technologie informatique" or something similar, but I see no need for this standard to have a French name! :-) > k = 1000^1 K = 1024^1 > M = 1000^2 M = 1024^2 > G = 1000^3 G = 1024^3 > etc... >>I am not aware of *any* standard that prescribes >>1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes, as it is clearly incorrect. >> > > Other than the de facto standard, of course. Sorry; it's the standards > that are incorrect if they presume to tell us that 1 kilobyte does not > equal 1024 bytes. Now I've seen official standards (aerodynamic > reference frame stuff) that required me to call "up" "down", and one > must go along with such things sometimes. Interesting. In common usage (as enforced by SI), kilo does indeed mean 1000. A related analogy is that the IEEE proposal is merely ensuring that "up" always means "up", instead of possibly meaning "sort of up but a little bit sideways" in computing. >>The *only* official statement on this matter I am aware of is the one >>the IEEE, IEC, and CIPM were involved in which clearly states: >> >>1000 bytes = 1 kilobyte (symbol "kB") >>1024 bytes = 1 kibibyte (symbol "KiB") >> >>By continuing the current practise (which I must say is far from >>uniform), we are continuing inaccuracy and ambiguity. >> > > But using "kB" to mean 1000 bytes would be worse than ambiguous; I expect that most of the current references to "KB" or "kB" actually (erroneously) refer to a kibibyte (1024 bytes), so there would be few instances where you would see "kB" for 1000 bytes until the standard became well-known. > it would mislead most of the many FDP readers who don't take the time to > memorize the FDP introductory material on documentation standards. I don't wish to blame, but perhaps it is the readers' mistake in assuming that kilobyte meant 1024 bytes in the first place (again, this is not a standard or even uniform in use). > I'd call such use inaccurate in an FDP context. Again, "kB" and "MB" would seldom be seen in this document, as I expect in most cases 1024 is intended. The existence of references to KiB and MiB would surely alert the reader that there was some terminology they were not yet familiar with. Indeed, if you wanted to try to ensure that no ambiguity existed, the references to "kB", "KB", "KiB", or whatever could be hyperlinks to the place in the introduction, appendix, definitions, or the standard itself where this terminology is defined. Do not presume that every reader currently reads KB as 1024 bytes. Thanks for the interesting debate! :-) -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 22: 0:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED35E37B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:00:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1L603b86291; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:00:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202210600.g1L603b86291@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Reply-To: Tom Rhodes Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35098; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:00:48 -0500 (EST) Here we go again! Another patch, I did various cleanups. Using many of the wonder ideas that Ceri gave me, and the few sent by others, a complete redo is here. One major note, I removed from portmapper, because I thought it looked ugly after the build, but did not do any changes in the lines. It should be easy to modify this before the patch is actually applied. Thanks to everyone who gave me their opinions! -- Tom (darklogik) Rhodes www.Pittgoth.com -The Gothic Liberation Front www.FreeBSD.org -The Power To Serve diff -ru handbook.old/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml handbook/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml --- handbook.old/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml Tue Feb 19 16:19:33 2002 +++ handbook/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml Thu Feb 21 00:55:41 2002 @@ -648,6 +648,13 @@ + Tom + Rhodes + Reorganized and enhanced by + + + + Bill Swingle Written by @@ -658,44 +665,42 @@ NFS Among the many different file systems that FreeBSD supports is - the Network File System or NFS. NFS allows you - to share directories and files on one machine with others - via the network they are attached to. Using NFS, users and - programs can access files on remote systems as if they were local - files. + the Network File System, also known as NFS. + NFS allows your system to share directories and files + with others over a network. By using NFS, users and + programs can access files on remote systems almost as if they were local files. - NFS has several benefits: + Some benefits for using NFS are: - Local workstations do not need as much disk space because + Local workstations use less disk space because commonly used data can be stored on a single machine and still - remain accessible to everyone on the network. + remain accessible to others over the network. - There is no need for users to have unique home directories - on every machine on your network. Once they have an established - directory that is available via NFS it can be accessed from - anywhere. + There would be no need for users to have unique home directories + on every network machine. Once they have an established a home + directory that is available on an NFS filesystem, + it can be accessed from other machines on the network. - Storage devices such as floppies and CDROM drives can be - used by other machines on the network eliminating the need for - extra hardware. + Storage devices such as floppy disks, CDROM drives, and ZIP drives + can be used by other machines on the network. This may eliminate the + need for every system to have a CDROM or ZIP drive, providing a more + cost effective solution. - How It Works + How <acronym>NFS</acronym> Works - NFS is composed of two sides – a client side and a - server side. Think of it as a want/have relationship. The client - wants the data that the server side - has. The server shares its data with the - client. In order for this system to function properly a few - processes have to be configured and running. + NFS consists of at least two main parts: a client + and a server. The client remotely accesses the data that is stored + on the server machine. In order for this to function properly a few + processes have to be configured and running: The server has to be running the following daemons: @@ -723,141 +728,134 @@ nfsd - The NFS Daemon which services requests from NFS - clients. + The NFS daemon which services requests from + the NFS clients. mountd - The NFS Mount Daemon which actually carries out - requests that &man.nfsd.8; passes on to it. + The NFS mount daemon which carries out + the requests that &man.nfsd.8; passes on to it. portmap - The portmapper daemon which - allows NFS clients to find out which port the NFS server - is using. + The portmapper daemon + allows NFS clients to discover which port the + NFS server is using. - The client side only needs to run a single daemon: - - NFS - client - - - nfsiod - - - - - - - nfsiod - The NFS async I/O Daemon which services requests - from its NFS server. - - - - + The client can also run a daemon, known as + nfsiod. The nfsiod + daemon services the requests from the NFS server. This + is optional, and improves performance, but is not required for normal + and correct operation. See the &man.nfsiod.8; man page for more information. + - Configuring NFS + Configuring <acronym>NFS</acronym> NFS configuration - Luckily for us, on a FreeBSD system this setup is a snap. The - processes that need to be running can all be run at boot time with - a few modifications to your /etc/rc.conf - file. + On FreeBSD, the setup of NFS is a relatively straightforward + process. The processes that need to be running can all start at boot time with + a few modifications to your /etc/rc.conf file. - On the NFS server make sure you have: + On the NFS server, make sure that the following options + are configured in the /etc/rc.conf file: portmap_enable="YES" nfs_server_enable="YES" nfs_server_flags="-u -t -n 4" mountd_flags="-r" - mountd is automatically run whenever the - NFS server is enabled. The and - flags to nfsd tell it to + mountd runs automatically whenever the + NFS server is enabled. The and + flags tell nfsd to serve UDP and TCP clients. The flag tells nfsd to start 4 copies of itself. - On the client, make sure you have: + On the client, make sure these options are present in the + /etc/rc.conf file: nfs_client_enable="YES" nfs_client_flags="-n 4" - Like nfsd, the tells + As with nfsd, the tells nfsiod to start 4 copies of itself. - The last configuration step requires that you create a file - called /etc/exports. The exports file - specifies which file systems on your server will be shared - (a.k.a., exported) and with what clients they will - be shared. Each line in the file specifies a file system to be - shared. There are a handful of options that can be used in this - file but only a few will be mentioned here. You can find out - about the rest in the &man.exports.5; manual page. + The NFS configuration requires that a file + known as exports exist in the + /etc directory. The /etc/exports + file specifies which filesystems on the server will be shared (or + exported), and with which clients. Each line in + /etc/exports specifies a filesystem to be exported and + with which this will be done. There are many such options that can be used + in this file but only a few will be mentioned here. You can easily discover + other options by reading over the &man.exports.5; manual page. + Here are a few example /etc/exports entries: - NFS - exporting filesystems + Examples of exporting filesystems - The following line exports /cdrom to - three silly machines that have the same domain name as the server + + In the following examples, an idea of how to export filesystems + is displayed, although the settings may be different depending on + your environment and network setup. + The following line exports /cdrom to + three example machines that have the same domain name as the server (hence the lack of a domain name for each) or have entries in your /etc/hosts file. The - flag makes the shared file system read-only. With this flag, the - remote system will not be able to make any changes to the - shared file system. + flag makes the exported file system read-only. With this flag, the + remote system will not be able to write any changes to the + exported file system. + - /cdrom -ro moe larry curly + /cdrom -ro host1 host2 host3 The following line exports /home to three hosts by IP address. This is a useful setup if you have a - private network but do not have DNS running. The - flag allows all the directories below - the specified file system to be exported as well. + private network but do not have a DNS server configured. + The flag allows for the directories below + the specified filesystem to also be exported. /home -alldirs 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.3 10.0.0.4 - The following line exports /a to two - machines that have different domain names than the server. The - flag allows - the root user on the remote system to write to the shared - file system as root. Without the -maproot=0 flag even if - someone has root access on the remote system they will not - be able to modify files on the shared file system. + The following line exports /a so that two + machines with different domain names may access the filesystem. The + flag allows the root + user on the remote system to write data on the exported filesystem as + root. If the -maproot=0 flag is not specified, then even if + a user has root access on the remote system, they will not + be able to modify files on the exported filesystem. + - /a -maproot=0 host.domain.com box.example.com + /a -maproot=0 host.example.com box.example.org - In order for a client to access- an exported file system it must - have permission to do so. Make sure your client is listed in your + In order for a client to access an exported filesystem, the client must + have permission to do so. Make sure the client is listed in your /etc/exports file. - In /etc/exports, each line represents + In the /etc/exports file, each line represents the export information for one filesystem to one host. A - remote host can only be specified once for each local - filesystem, and you can only have one default entry per local - filesystem. For example, let's assume that - /usr is a single filesystem. The - following /etc/exports is invalid: + remote host can only be specified once per filesystem, and may only + have one entry. For example, assume that /usr + is a single filesystem. The following /etc/exports + would be invalid: /usr/src client /usr/ports client One filesystem, /usr, has two lines - specifying its exports to the same host, - client. The correct format is: + specifying exports to the same host, client. + The correct format for this situation is: /usr/src /usr/ports client @@ -874,40 +872,41 @@ # client01 has root privileges on it /usr/src /usr/ports -maproot=0 client01 /usr/src /usr/ports client02 -# The "client" machines have root and can mount anywhere -# up /exports. Anyone inhe world can mount /exports/obj read-only +# The client machines have root and can mount anywhere +# on /exports. Anyone in the world can mount /exports/obj read-only /exports -alldirs -maproot=0 client01 client02 /exports/obj -ro - You must restart - mountd whenever you modify - /etc/exports to make changes take - effect. This can be accomplished by sending the hangup signal + You must restart mountd whenever you modify + /etc/exports to make the changes current. + This can be accomplished by either sending the hangup signal to the mountd process: &prompt.root; kill -HUP `cat /var/run/mountd.pid` - Now that you have made all these changes you can just reboot - and let FreeBSD start everything for you at boot time, or you can - run the following commands as root: + Alternatively, a reboot should make FreeBSD set everything + up properly if the previously described options were added to + /etc/rc.conf. Although, a reboot is not necessary. + Executing the following commands, as root of course, + should start everything up. - On the NFS server: + On the NFS server: &prompt.root; portmap &prompt.root; nfsd -u -t -n 4 &prompt.root; mountd -r - On the NFS client: + On the NFS client: &prompt.root; nfsiod -n 4 - Now you should be ready to actually mount a remote file + Now everything should be ready to actually mount a remote file system. This can be done one of two ways. In these examples the server's name will be server and the client's - name will be client. If you just want to - temporarily mount a remote file system or just want to test out - your configuration you can run a command like this as root on the - client: + name will be client. If you only want to + temporarily mount a remote file system or would rather test the + configuration, just execute a command like this as root + on the client: NFS mounting filesystems @@ -916,56 +915,58 @@ This will mount the /home directory on the server at /mnt on the client. If - everything is setup correctly you should be able to go into - /mnt on the client and see all the files that are on the - server. - - If you want to automatically mount a remote file system - each time the computer boots, add the filesystem to - /etc/fstab. Here is an example: + everything is set up correctly you should be able to enter + /mnt on the client and see all the files + that are on the server. + + If you want to automatically mount a remote filesystem + each time the computer boots, add the filesystem to the + /etc/fstab file. Here is an example: server:/home /mnt nfs rw 0 0 - Read the &man.fstab.5; manual page for more options. + The &man.fstab.5; manual page lists all the available options. Practical Uses - There are many very cool uses for NFS. Some of the more common - ones are listed below. + There are many practical uses for NFS. Some of the + more common ones are listed below: + + The following NFS examples require + NFS to be correctly configured before actual use, see + above. + + NFS uses - Have several machines on a network and share a CDROM or - floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more - convenient. + Set up several machines on a network to share a CDROM or + floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more convenient. - With so many machines on a network, it gets old having your - personal files strewn all over the place. You can have a - central NFS server that houses all user home directories and - shares them with the rest of the machines on the LAN, so no - matter where you log in you will have the same home - directory. + On large networks, it may be more convenient to configure a + central NFS server in which to store all the user + home directories on. These home directories can then be exported to + the network so that users would always have the same home directory, + regardless of which workstation they log in to. - When you get to reinstalling FreeBSD on one of your - machines, NFS is the way to go! Just pop your distribution - CDROM into your file server and away you go! + You can use one CDROM on the NFS server to install + FreeBSD over the network on multiple machines. - Have a common /usr/ports/distfiles - directory that all your machines share. That way, when you go - to install a port that you have already installed on a different - machine, you do not have to download the source all over - again! + Several machines could have a common /usr/ports/distfiles + directory, assuming of course all the machines are FreeBSD. + That way, when you need to install a port on several machines, you can + quickly access the source without downloading it on each machine. @@ -992,14 +993,15 @@ amd automatic mounter daemon - &man.amd.8;, which is also known as the automatic mounter - daemon, is a useful utility used for automatically mounting a + &man.amd.8; (the automatic mounter daemon) + is a useful utility used for automatically mounting a remote filesystem whenever a file or directory within that filesystem is accessed. Filesystems that are inactive for a period of time will also be automatically unmounted by amd. Using - amd provides a simplistic alternative - to static mounts. + amd provides a simple alternative + to permanent mounts, as permanent mounts should be listed in the + /etc/fstab. amd operates by attaching itself as an NFS server to the /host and Only in handbook: imagelib To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 22:16:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from arnie.adacel.com.au (arnie.adacel.com.au [203.36.26.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8630237B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25147 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 06:29:38 -0000 Received: from intmail.adacel.com (HELO proton.adacel.com.au) (root@203.8.85.90) by arnie.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 06:29:38 -0000 Received: from hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au ([192.168.75.251]) by proton.adacel.com.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16158 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:16:12 +1100 (EST) Received: (qmail 7831 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 06:07:39 -0000 Received: from selene.wodonga.adacel.com.au (HELO adacel.com) (192.168.75.20) by hera.wodonga.adacel.com.au with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 06:07:39 -0000 Message-ID: <3C7490E9.3050100@adacel.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:17:13 +1100 From: Michael Wardle Organization: Adacel Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-au, en-us, en-gb, en, eo, de- MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wouter Van Hemel Cc: "Gary W. Swearingen" , parv , Giorgos Keramidas , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> <3C74803F.4090004@adacel.com> <1014270449.303.117.camel@cocaine> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wouter Van Hemel wrote: > On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 06:06, Michael Wardle wrote: [...] >>Can you think of a sensible reason why kilobyte = 1000 bytes is not a >>good idea? >> > > Standards are a tool to facilitate communication, and shouldn't be > considered a goal. If they do not improve understanding, or worse, make > things less comprehensible, then I see no reason to adapt them. A lack of comprehensibility already exists: kilo always meant x1000 (except perhaps inside the USA and UK, where SI is not the usual system) even long before computing came along. If "KiB" and "MiB" started appearing on computer systems (they seldom do at present, as the proposal/standard is only a recent one), one would expect the user to wonder what it means and to find out. This is the sort of thing that would appear in a release notes or an introductory section. When/if the system started to appear in systems and documentation, there would certainly be articles and discussion in newspapers, technical magazines, and web sites. In GUI applications, the system could be explained in the online help system, and/or links added over the symbol text (i.e. make "KiB" a hyperlink or have a tooltip). > If everyone uses 'abc', why care about some far-away entity coming up with > rules that nobody really cares about? I agree that mass-acceptance is quite important, however there *is* no system at the moment. It is definately not true to say that "everyone" uses "K", "KB", or any one symbol. (As I suggest further down! :-)) > (I'm not directly implying that's the case; I'm merely questioning the > purpose of it all.) > > If we decide to comply, all occurrences in the code should be changed too, > as not to create a bigger chaos. We simply can't use KiB in our > documentation, and ignore the difference with the real-life topics we are > documenting. This is a decision that can't be taken lightly... Surely not > for something that might never find steady ground in the 'real world' (no > matter how convenient or correct). Quite true, but most occurences I've seen in the code actually use "K", not "KB", "KiB", or something else! I believe this helps to illustrate the lack of agreement and uniformity that currently exists! > If we decide not to comply, but to at least be consistent about this, > well, it's just a matter of agreeing on _something_. > > Whatever we do, there should be consistency. > > (I have a feeling this discussion isn't even remotely over yet...) > > >>Would I be correct in assuming that you do not use (and therefore are >>not familiar with) SI? >> >> > > That's not the most important thing here. How can we expect, getting > confused ourselves, to write clear documentation to possibly less > technical people? In most of the world, SI is the everyday system of measurement. There have even been gradual attempts to move towards SI in those English speaking countries that have not yet changed to SI (the USA and the UK), and many technical persons (such as engineers) within these countries are now beginning to use SI, as it is an international standard, and is more conducive to simple mathematical manipulation. Those who do use SI (or are trying to learn it) *will* be (and are!) confused when computing uses SI terminology to mean something different. > And on a side note, the documentation should follow the system; in case of > KiB adaptation, this should start in de code, and only _then_ we can adapt > the docs to reflect the system. Well, it has to start somewhere. What is important is that the changes are made over as short a possible period of time, and that the documentation accurately reflects the system, so changes would be best made as close to simultaneously as possible. Are you saying this because you think the core code team won't like the proposal? :-P > > >>>The disk drive people are just wrong; >>> >>No, they are quite correct, however they are in the minority. >> >>I am not aware of any official body that has standardized kilobyte as >>meaning 1024 bytes. It may have been incorrectly assumed that kilobyte >>meant 1024 bytes, as the difference was deemed insignificant, however at >>no point could a kilobyte have been correctly referred to as 1024 bytes. >>(Same for megabyte, gigabyte, and so on.) >> >>Please point to some real evidence (preferably a standard) that proves >>the assertion (1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes) correct. >> >> > > I'd like to say it again: that doesn't matter, in my eyes. We are _not_ > the ones who come up (or should come up) with these regulations; our 'job' > is writing documenation that's easy to understand. Very true. Point taken. At present, confusion exists. The only way to remove this confusion is to produce a standard (preferably one that complements existing standards, rather than redefines or contradicts them) and for that standard to be widely-used. > Whichever choice leads to that; regardless of SI. Sure. Bye for now. :-) -- MICHAEL WARDLE | WORK +61-2-6024-2699 SGI Desktop & Admin Software | MOBILE +61-415-439-838 Adacel Technologies Limited | WEB http://www.adacel.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Feb 20 23:44:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from web20513.mail.yahoo.com (web20513.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EDA8F37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:44:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020221074421.89908.qmail@web20513.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.88.149.58] by web20513.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:44:21 PST Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:44:21 -0800 (PST) From: Denis Dudhia Subject: download To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, My name is Denis Dudhia. I am working as a Network / System Administrator at STG International Ltd. I have heard much about the FreeBSD OS and I would thus also like to experience it. I would like to know that, from where I can download FreeBSD OS. Regards, Denis denisdudhia@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 0: 7:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F0137B416 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (zbay5-20.fyi.net [206.80.158.20]) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L4jvv21130; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:46:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3C747C85.6080107@pittgoth.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:50:13 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010628 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gary W. Swearingen" Cc: Michael Wardle , parv , Giorgos Keramidas , Wouter Van Hemel , doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I very much agree on this, it is just as easy to spell out the entire word megabyte, kilobyte, and soforth... Why not just add this to the primer (which probly needs a bit of updating anyway) and then put it to use in the current documentation? If everyone agrees on that, I will even whip up a patch tomarrow or the next so that it may be added to the FDP. Comments? -- Tom Rhodes Gary W. Swearingen wrote: > > >I'd prefer some FDP introduction explain this and that "B" means "byte" >and "b" means "bit", though I wouldn't mind a requirement to use the >full words except where the meaning is clear from the context or a note. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 2:26: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B4037B400; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from freno.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@freno.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.167]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17684; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:21:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by freno.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01720; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:21:09 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:21:09 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: bmah@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, wosch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/34763: Broken link from RELNOTSES Message-ID: <20020221112109.A1608@freno.cs.tu-berlin.de> References: <200202162125.g1GLPcJ47919@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200202162125.g1GLPcJ47919@freefall.freebsd.org>; from bmah@FreeBSD.org on Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 01:25:38PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-02-16 13:25:38 -0800, bmah@FreeBSD.org wrote: > Synopsis: Broken link from RELNOTSES > > Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->wosch > Responsible-Changed-By: bmah > Responsible-Changed-When: Sat Feb 16 13:25:12 PST 2002 > Responsible-Changed-Why: > Over to the man.cgi maintainer...Wolfram, could you take a look > at this? > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=34763 The hardlinks from the arch subdirectory man/man4/i386 to man/man4 are missing. This error occured first in FreeBSD 4.3. (the manpages in FreeBSD 4.2 works fine). -Wolfram -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 3:23:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blanc.contact.net (www.contact.net [199.84.54.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A55637B402 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from www@localhost) by blanc.contact.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07621; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:21:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:21:14 -0500 Message-Id: <200202211121.GAA07621@blanc.contact.net> To: doc@freebsd.org, stutz@dsl.org, kmia@smd.mega.net.id, loktony@hotmail.com, geser@tagem.gov.tr, curienlam@hkonly.com, teca@ilovechocolate.com, etabeta@esanet.it, mabramov@npp.cit.bg, krazy_b@iamwasted.com From: Carey19@aol.com () Subject: Free Trial Membership Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by (Carey19@aol.com) on Thursday, February 21, 2002 at 06:21:14 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- :: ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:57:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc4-card4-0-cust162.cdf.cable.ntl.com ([80.4.14.162] helo=rhadamanth.private.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by relay3-gui.server.ntli.net with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 16drqu-0005bO-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:57:33 +0000 Received: from setantae by rhadamanth.private.submonkey.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16drqu-0000BN-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:57:32 +0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:57:32 +0000 From: Ceri To: Michael Lucas Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 Message-ID: <20020221115732.GA575@rhadamanth> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri , Michael Lucas , freebsd-doc@freebsd.org References: <200202202000.g1KK08V36428@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200202202000.g1KK08V36428@freefall.freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 12:00:08PM -0800, Michael Lucas wrote: > The following reply was made to PR docs/35155; it has been noted by GNATS. > > From: Michael Lucas > To: Priit Piipuu > Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:50:11 -0500 > > Priit, > > Thanks for the patch. You're mixing some whitespace changes with > content changes, however, to wit: > > > Here is where you must set the floppy to boot into a > > serial console. You have to make a file called > > - boot.config containing "/boot/loader > > - -h". All this does is pass a flag to the bootloader to > > - boot into a serial console. > > + boot.config containing > > + /boot/loader -h. All this does is pass a flag to > > + the bootloader to boot into a serial console. > > > > The last line here is a gratuitous whitespace diff. Does that really qualify as a _gratuitous_ whitespace diff ? He's made changes to the two lines above, and then wrapped the line since it's now really long. I'd have thought that since the surrounding text has changed, it's not going to be too hard for anyone to notice. Can I get some second opinions on this, since I do similar things most of the time (if changes to a line make it really long, insert a newline while I'm at it) ?? Ceri -- keep a mild groove on To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 4:11:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.fibertel.com.ar (mta4.fibertel.com.ar [24.232.0.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6403437B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 04:11:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from P3 (24.232.105.208) by mail.fibertel.com.ar (5.5.034) id 3C7215CF0006A81C for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:11:24 -0300 Message-ID: <001901c1bad0$dab2a830$0300000a@P3> From: "Diego Frabotta" To: Subject: hi Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:11:12 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there any article explaining how to setup a VPN server with PoPToP ?? tnx, bye. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 5:24:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from amsfep14-int.chello.nl (amsfep14-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1540F37B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 05:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from hibernate.cryolabs.net ([213.132.151.88]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20020221132419.FPOY24661.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@hibernate.cryolabs.net> for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:24:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 9465 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2002 14:24:13 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO cocaine.cryolabs.net) (192.168.196.5) by hibernate.cryolabs.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2002 14:24:13 +0100 Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units From: Wouter Van Hemel To: Michael Wardle Cc: "Gary W. Swearingen" , parv , Giorgos Keramidas , doc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3C7490E9.3050100@adacel.com> References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D 39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@a dacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.c om> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> <3C74803F.4090004@adacel.com> <1014270449.303.117.camel@cocaine> <3C7490E9.3050100@adacel.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 21 Feb 2002 14:24:17 +0100 Message-Id: <1014297857.177.20.camel@cocaine> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 2002-02-21 at 07:17, Michael Wardle wrote: > Wouter Van Hemel wrote: > [...] > > If we decide to comply, all occurrences in the code should be changed too, > > as not to create a bigger chaos. We simply can't use KiB in our > > documentation, and ignore the difference with the real-life topics we are > > documenting. This is a decision that can't be taken lightly... Surely not > > for something that might never find steady ground in the 'real world' (no > > matter how convenient or correct). > > Quite true, but most occurences I've seen in the code actually use "K", > not "KB", "KiB", or something else! I believe this helps to illustrate > the lack of agreement and uniformity that currently exists! > Nobody disagrees with _that_... > > And on a side note, the documentation should follow the system; in case of > > KiB adaptation, this should start in de code, and only _then_ we can adapt > > the docs to reflect the system. > > Well, it has to start somewhere. What is important is that the changes > are made over as short a possible period of time, and that the > documentation accurately reflects the system, so changes would be best > made as close to simultaneously as possible. > > Are you saying this because you think the core code team won't like the > proposal? :-P > I'm not around long enough to know what will happen, but I can imagine it will be a bit like a bomb going off... And I think an at least as steady flow of mails bogging down the mailservers... :) > > [...] > > I'd like to say it again: that doesn't matter, in my eyes. We are _not_ > > the ones who come up (or should come up) with these regulations; our 'job' > > is writing documenation that's easy to understand. > > Very true. Point taken. > > At present, confusion exists. The only way to remove this confusion is > to produce a standard (preferably one that complements existing > standards, rather than redefines or contradicts them) and for that > standard to be widely-used. > Yes, and I don't think anybody here questions that. If we felt that your proposal was absurd and irrelevant, nobody would have reacted. ;) It'll just be damn hard to come up with a solution... 'Introducing KiB' -like many things- sounds so much more easy than actually doing it; it would involve _every_ aspect of the system - not just documentation... that's hundreds (thousands?) of occurrences... And a little but difficult twist in the minds of people, especially those that are around for a while. This is a decision that can't be made lightly, and it's unlikely that something will be agreed upon soon. > > Whichever choice leads to that; regardless of SI. > > Sure. > > Bye for now. :-) > Hah, you think we let you get away? :) Kind regards, wouter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 7:34:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C1537B402 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:34:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (lcl234.zbzoom.net [208.236.36.234]) by pittgoth.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1LFaOv22053; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:36:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3C751614.40901@pittgoth.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:45:24 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes Reply-To: darklogik@pittgoth.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20011221 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ceri , freeBSD-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 References: <200202202000.g1KK08V36428@freefall.freebsd.org> <20020221115732.GA575@rhadamanth> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ceri wrote: >> The last line here is a gratuitous whitespace diff. >> > > Does that really qualify as a _gratuitous_ whitespace diff ? > > He's made changes to the two lines above, and then wrapped > the line since it's now really long. > > I'd have thought that since the surrounding text has changed, it's not > going to be too hard for anyone to notice. > > Can I get some second opinions on this, since I do similar things most > of the time (if changes to a line make it really long, insert a newline > while I'm at it) ?? > > Ceri > > I do it here and there also, with no problems... Patches were even committed without a problem. I don't really see much of a problem with it -- Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes www.Pittgoth.com Gothic Liberation Front www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 11:17:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from spam.ru (p143.n87.dip.aha.ru [195.2.87.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D92E37B404 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by spam.ru (8.11.4/8.11.3) id g1LJCgG20421 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:12:42 +0300 Message-Id: <200202211912.g1LJCgG20421@spam.ru> From: "RESTKO" To: Subject: Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:09:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0979C.095F3260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0979C.095F3260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =D4. (095) 725-25-48, 725-25-47=20 =E2=C1=DA=D9 =C4=C1=CE=CE=D9=C8 =D0=CF =CB=D2=D5=D0=CE=D9=CD = =DA=C1=CB=C1=DA=C1=CD =D7 =CE=CF=D7=CF=CD = =D3=D4=D2=CF=C9=D4=C5=CC=D8=D3=D4=D7=C5.=20 =EF=D0=D4=CF=D7=D9=C5 =D0=CF=D4=D2=C5=C2=C9=D4=C5=CC=C9 =C9 = =CE=CF=D7=D9=C5 =D2=D9=CE=CB=C9 =D3=C2=D9=D4=C1 =F7=C1=DB=C5=CA = =D0=D2=CF=C4=D5=CB=C3=C9=C9 =C9 =D5=D3=CC=D5=C7.=20 =F7=D3=C5 =CE=CF=D7=CF=D3=D4=D2=CF=CA=CB=C9 =ED=CF=D3=CB=D7=D9. = =FE=D4=CF ? =E7=C4=C5 ? =EB=D4=CF ?=20 =EB=C1=D4=C1=CC=CF=C7 =D3=D4=D2=CF=D1=DD=C9=C8=D3=D1 =C9 = =D0=CC=C1=CE=C9=D2=D5=C5=CD=D9=C8 =CB = =D3=D4=D2=CF=C9=D4=C5=CC=D8=D3=D4=D7=D5 =CF=C2=DF=C5=CB=D4=CF=D7, = =DA=C1=CB=C1=DA=DE=C9=CB=CF=D7, =C7=C5=CE. = =D0=CF=C4=D2=D1=C4=DE=C9=CB=CF=D7, =C9=CE=D7=C5=D3=D4=CF=D2=CF=D7, = =D0=D2=CF=C5=CB=D4=C9=D2=CF=D7=DD=C9=CB=CF=D7. =EB=CF=CE=D3=D5=CC=D8=D4=C1=C3=C9=C9 =C9 =D0=CF=C4=C2=CF=D2 = =DA=C5=CD=C5=CC=D8=CE=D9=C8 =D5=DE=C1=D3=D4=CB=CF=D7 =D0=CF=C4 = =D3=D4=D2=CF=C9=D4=C5=CC=D8=D3=D4=D7=CF, =CF=C2=DF=C5=CB=D4=CF=D7 = =C4=CC=D1 =C9=CE=D7=C5=D3=D4=C9=D2=CF=D7=C1=CE=C9=D1, = =D4=CF=D2=C7=CF=D7=D9=C8 =C9 =CF=C6=C9=D3=CE=D9=C8 = =D0=CC=CF=DD=C1=C4=C5=CA. =E2=C5=D3=D0=CC=C1=D4=CE=C1=D1 =D2=C5=C7=C9=D3=D4=D2=C1=C3=C9=D1, = =D0=D2=C9=D7=C9=CC=C5=C7=C9=C9 =C9 =D5=D7=C5=CC=C9=DE=C5=CE=C9=C5 = =D0=CF=D3=C5=DD=C5=CE=C9=D1 =F7=C1=DB=C5=C7=CF =D3=C1=CA=D4=C1.=20 =E4=CC=D1 =D4=CF=C7=CF, =DE=D4=CF=C2=D9 =CF =F7=C1=D3 =D5=DA=CE=C1=CC=C9 = =D7=D3=C5 =CE=C1=DB=C9 =D0=CF=D3=C5=D4=C9=D4=C5=CC=C9, =F7=D9 = =CD=CF=D6=C5=D4=C5 =D4=C1=CB=D6=C5 =C2=C5=D3=D0=CC=C1=D4=CE=CF = =CF=D3=D4=C1=D7=C9=D4=D8 =D3=D3=D9=CC=CB=D5 =CE=C1 =D3=D7=CF=CA = =D3=C1=CA=D4. =E5=D3=CC=C9 =D5 =F7=C1=D3 =C5=DD=C5 =CE=C5=D4 =D3=D7=CF=C5=C7=CF = =D3=C1=CA=D4=C1 =C9=CC=C9 =F7=D9 =C8=CF=D4=C9=D4=C5 = =D2=C1=DA=CD=C5=D3=D4=C9=D4=D8 =C5=DD=C5 =CF=C4=C9=CE =CE=C1 = =D3=C5=D2=D7=C5=D2=C5, =CB=D5=C4=C1 =C8=CF=C4=D1=D4 =CE=C5 = =D3=CC=D5=DE=C1=CA=CE=D9=C5 =CC=C0=C4=C9, =DC=D4=CF =CD=CF=D6=CE=CF = =D3=C4=C5=CC=C1=D4=D8 =D5 =CE=C1=D3 - =C2=D9=D3=D4=D2=CF =C9 = =D3=CF=D7=C5=D2=DB=C5=CE=CE=CF =C2=C5=D3=D0=CC=C1=D4=CE=CF. =E2=CF=CC=C5=C5 =D0=CF=C4=D2=CF=C2=CE=D5=C0 = =C9=CE=C6=CF=D2=CD=C1=C3=C9=C0 =CD=CF=D6=CE=CF =D0=CF=CC=D5=DE=C9=D4=D8 = =CE=C1=C2=D2=C1=D7 =D3=CC=CF=D7=CF =F2=C5=D3=D4=CB=CF =D7 = http://www.yandex.ru , =CC=C9=C2=CF =CF=D4=D0=D2=C1=D7=C9=D7 = =DA=C1=D0=D2=CF=D3 =D0=CF =C1=C4=D2=C5=D3=D5 inib@ncal.verio.com =FA=D7=CF=CE=C9=D4=C5, =D0=C9=DB=C9=D4=C5. =ED=D9 =D3 = =D5=C4=CF=D7=CF=CC=D8=D3=D4=D7=C9=C5=CD =CF=D4=D7=C5=D4=C9=CD =CE=C1 = =D7=D3=C5 =F7=C1=DB=C9 =D7=CF=D0=D2=CF=D3=D9. =D4. 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=D4. (095) 725-25-48, 725-25-47

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=D4. (095) = 725-25-48, 725-25-47

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0979C.095F3260-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 11:30:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0BD37B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1LJU3511432; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:30:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:30:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202211930.g1LJU3511432@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: docs/35133: work for -junior doc hacker Reply-To: Tom Rhodes Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35133; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/35133: work for -junior doc hacker Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:33:50 -0500 Peter I like it, it is better than mine. Now, I guess we let Murray or Nik review it and commit it or? -- Tom (Darklogik) Rhodes www.Pittgoth.com Gothic Liberation Front www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 12: 0:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.datanet.hu (mx1.datanet.hu [194.149.13.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2751737B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from fonix.adamsfamily.xx (nilus-119.adsl.datanet.hu [195.56.92.118]) by mx1.datanet.hu (DataNet) with ESMTP id 46D7FF93D for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:00:52 +0100 (CET) Received: (from cc@localhost) by fonix.adamsfamily.xx (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1LK1DO11467 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:01:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:01:13 +0100 From: Szilveszter Adam To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Possible incorrect statement in www/en/docproj/sgml.sgml ? Message-ID: <20020221200113.GC1218@fonix.adamsfamily.xx> Mail-Followup-To: Szilveszter Adam , freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello everybody, Before filing a PR officially about this, I thought it would be nice to check on this list. In www/en/docproj/sgml.sgml, there is a statement to the effect that the LinuxDoc -> DocBook conversion was still in progress when that page was last updated. Which was on 17th September 2001 btw. Specifically, it states that the FAQ and the Handbook still used LinuxDoc. Although I think this statement is wrong and the conversion has finished, I thought it would be a good idea to ask first. If others agree this is wrong, I will file a PR with a patch. -- Regards: Szilveszter ADAM Szombathely Hungary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 12: 4:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from lists.blarg.net (lists.blarg.net [206.124.128.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED0F37B402 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:04:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from thig.blarg.net (thig.blarg.net [206.124.128.18]) by lists.blarg.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97925BD51; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:04:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([206.124.139.115]) by thig.blarg.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10345; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:04:03 -0800 Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g1LK68h02368; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:06:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@blarg.net) To: Michael Wardle Cc: doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units References: <3C743707.3080505@adacel.com> <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <3C744D39.1020308@adacel.com> <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <3C7463A5.5060204@pittgoth.com> <3C74673E.8010905@adacel.com> <4r664rbe2u.64r@localhost.localdomain> <3C748CAA.9060805@adacel.com> From: swear@blarg.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 21 Feb 2002 12:06:08 -0800 In-Reply-To: <3C748CAA.9060805@adacel.com> Message-ID: Lines: 103 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Wardle writes: > No, the decision was made when the K, M, G, etc. prefixes were used. In > fact, I would suggest the only reason persons understood what GB or TB > meant (approximately) was the prefixes' SI roots (however loose). In > the same way, it is likely that larger sizes will be termed PB, EB, ZB, > YB, and so on, despite no computing body having suggested these or > approved them as meaning multiples of 1024. First let me say that you shouldn't assume that anyone here is unfamiliar with SI. Anyone getting a technical degree in at least the last thirty years should know the concepts (though IIRC, there was no SI thirty years ago). > It is not safe to assume that the prefixes (that bear an uncanny > resemblance to SI prefixes) mean multiples of 1024 (or more correctly, > multiples of 2^(10*n)) in the absence of any standard. It's not at all uncanny. It's a simple carry over of base-10 concepts (a sine qua non of SI) to the binary system. Prefixes are used to allow the easy naming of small-integer multiples of big "round" numbers. It's been choosen that it's 1000^n for decimal work and 1024^n for binary work. The choice of names for binary work was unfortunate, but the understanding of the prefixes is standard enough when discussing computer bytes and words, that it is safe enough to make assumptions about what the prefixes mean. People that use KB to mean 1000 bytes are just being confusing. > As I surely have said previously: > I have seen lots of different notations used for 1024 bytes, including: > - k > - K > - kBytes > - KBytes > - Ko > - ko > - KB > - kB > - kb > - KiB > - kiB > - KKB Right. And these never mean 1000 bytes, except in advertisements. I don't see a problem. Forbid most of them, and we WILL have the problem of having to fix them as they continually creep into the docs. > To call any of the above uniform practise would be untrue. Indeed, "KB" > is probably now the most widely used, but it is not by any means > uniform, unambiguous, or standardized, not to mention that the 1000 > v. 1024 issue is not addressed. But I do claim that it is uniform practise that all these terms refer to 1024 bytes (or other clear-from-the-context units like words), except "ko" and "Ko" which I've never seen. > It surprises me that when a well-respected engineering body *does* > propose a standard, that most persons I have talked to are in fact > against it! Well, we're still using designed-to-slow-typing QWERTY keyboards too. > Interesting. In common usage (as enforced by SI), kilo does indeed mean > 1000. A related analogy is that the IEEE proposal is merely ensuring > that "up" always means "up", instead of possibly meaning "sort of up but > a little bit sideways" in computing. Or that they are telling astronauts that they must use "up" to refer to "away from the earth" (because that's how the Geophysique Informatik defined it years ago) instead of the more natural "away from the floor". > I don't wish to blame, but perhaps it is the readers' mistake in > assuming that kilobyte meant 1024 bytes in the first place (again, this > is not a standard or even uniform in use). ... > Again, "kB" and "MB" would seldom be seen in this document, as I expect > in most cases 1024 is intended. The existence of references to KiB and > MiB would surely alert the reader that there was some terminology they > were not yet familiar with. When you expect that 1024 is intended, you make no mistake, despite your own statement to the contrary. Do you seriously think ANYONE doesn't expect that when discussing bytes? > Do not presume that every reader currently reads KB as 1024 bytes. That confuses two issues, but I will presume that KBytes as 1024 bytes, just like I'll presume that no reader will read KBytes as 1000 bytes. Will you use KBytes to mean 1000 bytes, or will you banish all use of SI prefixes on bytes? If you don't banish it, confusion will persist for a very long time, with readers always wondering if "KByte" means 1000 bytes or if the writer fell back on old habits. > Thanks for the interesting debate! :-) Yes. And I could easily adopt your side of the issues as you make reasonable arguments (too?). Things would have been much easier for many (including a certain spaceship to Mars) if we had all adopted SI units for everything (with an adjuct for binary system) long ago. The issues at hand are mostly practical ones, like those for the many gas stations in the US that paid for metric (or dual system) conversion in the 1970s only to have the trend fizzle out. Many of us see your "mibi" thing fizzling in the same manner. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 12:39:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow058o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DEFD37B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from pcow058m.blueyonder.co.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:38:20 +0000 Received: from fluoxetine.lan (unverified [62.31.193.116]) by pcow058m.blueyonder.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.9) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:32:56 +0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:34:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew McKay X-X-Sender: andy@fluoxetine.lan To: doc@freebsd.org Cc: Michael Wardle Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units In-Reply-To: <1014297857.177.20.camel@cocaine> Message-ID: <20020221200735.S76448-100000@fluoxetine.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I agree that the original premise is correct and that using SI prefixes carries a certain suggestion that they operate in the same way that SI prefixes usually do. However. Computer science is a scientific field which is unique in that it operates in powers of two rather than powers of ten. This is due to the nature of binary mathematics, for which powers of ten are simply illogical. A byte does NOT consist of ten bits and never will. (none of this is intended to be news to anyone - it is a mere statement of fact) SI units define k, M, G &c to refer to increasing 10^3 multiples within decimal systems. Computer scientists define K, M, G &c to refer to increasing 2^10 multiples within binary systems. What works for apples does not apply equally to oranges and neither should it be made to try. Given the prevailing conditions within the field of computer science it would, I believe, be a fruitless endeavour to attempt to merge a long standing de facto standard with a long standing ratified standard. If push came to shove I suspect that the overwhelming majority of computer scientists would rather form their own standards body and 'ratify' the use of K, M, G &c to refer to increasing 2^10 multiples than convert to a system whereby they refer to increasing 10^3 multiples. The reasons for this are clear. Unless you are selling something and wish to make your product appear larger than it is then you have ABSOLUTELY no need to refer to 1000, 1000000 or 1000000000 bytes. They are utterly useless. 1024 and its multiples, however, are exceedingly useful. Furthermore, given the vast percentage of 'computer people' (scientists and users alike) who understand the system as is compared with the tiny percentage who know or even care that it is not 100% technically correct, any change that was decided to be made would meet such resistance and take so long to implement that the benefits would not be worthwhile. Basically, the system is not broken. The only breakage occurs because it deviates from a system which does not apply to it, from which it borrowed handy prefixes as an approximation for their ultimate use. The people who do not understand this difference, who would be likely to care, are in an infinitessimal minority. So, imho, the only question to answer is 'who is going to go through the doc tree and apply a standard, consistent with that which is understood by the majority of people, to the docs?' I would offer but I already have a large number of jobs on my list :) Andy -- Andrew McKay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 13:35:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A534B37B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from peter3.wemm.org ([12.232.27.13]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020221213517.SBK1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@peter3.wemm.org> for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:35:17 +0000 Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LLZGs46606 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE36439F1 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: docs@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD PR reference Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:35:16 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020221213516.BE36439F1@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In case it hasn't turned up yet, Verio announced their managed server offering with choice of either FreeBSD/Intel or Solaris/Sparc. http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020220/202197_1.html I dont know how long that link will remain vaild for, but there is a mention here as well: http://www.verio.com/products/hosting/managed/index.cfm Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 13:47:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACDA37B404 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:47:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0497.cvx32-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.158.242] helo=oemcomputer) by granger.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16e11p-00069R-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:45:26 -0500 To: james@ppmc.com From: james@ppmc.com Subject: URGENT PROPOSAL Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:42:39 -0600 Message-Id: <37308.654627893520200.5467@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From:Mr.James Ajah Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation P.M.B 543,Ikoyi Lagos-Nigeria. Attn:President/Ceo. STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS PROPOSAL RE: TRANSFER OF US$21.5 MILLION (TWENTY ONE MILLION, FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS ONLY). I know this email will reach you as a surprise,but need not to worry as we are using the only secured and confidential medium available to seek for foreign assistance/partnership in a business transaction which is of mutual benefit. I am a member of the Government of Nigeria Contract Award and Monitoring Committee in the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation(NNPC)Sometime ago,a contract was awarded to a foreign firm in NNPC by my Committee.This contract was over invoiced to the tune of US$21.5M.U.S.Dollars. This was done deliberately.The over-invoicing was a deal by my committee to benefit from the project.We now want to transfer this money which is in a suspense Account with NNPC into any Overseas Account which we expect you to provide for us. SHARE: - For providing the account where we shall remit the money into,you will be entitled to 20% of the money,70% will be for me and my partners while 10% has been mapped out from the total sum to cover any upfront or out of pocket expenses that may be incurred by all parties during the course of this transfer,both locally and international expenses.In order for us to commence the transaction i would require the following: - 1.Your company's name,address,telephone and fax numbers. 2.Your bank name,address,account and routing numbers The above information would be use to make formal applications as a matter of procedure for the release of the money and onward transfer to your account.It does not matter whether or not your company does contract projects of this nature described here. The assumption is that your company won the major contract and subcontracted it out to other companies.More often than not,big trading companies or firms of unrelated fields win major contracts and subcontracts to more specialized firms for execution of such contracts. We have strong reliable connections and contacts at the Central Bank Of Nigeria,as well as the Ministry of Finance and we have no doubt that all the money will be released and transferred if we get the necessary foreign partner to assist us in this deal.Therefore, when the business is successfully concluded we shall through our same connections withdraw all documents used from all the concerned Government Ministeries for 100% security. We are ordinary Government workers and we will not want to miss this once in a lifetime opportunity to get rich. We want this money to be transferred to the overseas Accounts for us,before the present Government start Auditing all Government owned Parastatals accounts. Please contact me immediately through my email addresses whether or not you are interested in this deal.If you are not,it will enable me scout for another foreignpartner to carry out this deal.But where you are interested, send the required documents aforementioned herein through my confidential email addresses(jamesajah@lycos.com) (jamesajah@jerusalem-mail.com)as time is of the essence in this business. I wait in anticipation of your fullest co-operation. Yours faithfully, Mr.James Ajah. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 14: 0:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BC437B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1LLxrc30249; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:59:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:59:53 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Denis Dudhia Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: download Message-ID: <20020221165953.A30225@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020221074421.89908.qmail@web20513.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020221074421.89908.qmail@web20513.mail.yahoo.com>; from denisdudhia@yahoo.com on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 11:44:21PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, All your questions can be answered at http://www.freebsd.org; just follow the links for installation. Thanks for checking us out! On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 11:44:21PM -0800, Denis Dudhia wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Denis Dudhia. I am working as a Network / > System Administrator at STG International Ltd. > > I have heard much about the FreeBSD OS and I would > thus also like to experience it. > > I would like to know that, from where I can download > FreeBSD OS. > > > Regards, > Denis > denisdudhia@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 14:10:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E52137B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1LM9pV30293; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:09:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:09:51 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Ceri Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 Message-ID: <20020221170951.B30225@blackhelicopters.org> References: <200202202000.g1KK08V36428@freefall.freebsd.org> <20020221115732.GA575@rhadamanth> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020221115732.GA575@rhadamanth>; from setantae@submonkey.net on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 11:57:32AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 11:57:32AM +0000, Ceri wrote: > On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 12:00:08PM -0800, Michael Lucas wrote: > > The following reply was made to PR docs/35155; it has been noted by GNATS. > > > > From: Michael Lucas > > To: Priit Piipuu > > Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 > > Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:50:11 -0500 > > > > Priit, > > > > Thanks for the patch. You're mixing some whitespace changes with > > content changes, however, to wit: > > > > > Here is where you must set the floppy to boot into a > > > serial console. You have to make a file called > > > - boot.config containing "/boot/loader > > > - -h". All this does is pass a flag to the bootloader to > > > - boot into a serial console. > > > + boot.config containing > > > + /boot/loader -h. All this does is pass a flag to > > > + the bootloader to boot into a serial console. > > > > > > > The last line here is a gratuitous whitespace diff. > > Does that really qualify as a _gratuitous_ whitespace diff ? > > He's made changes to the two lines above, and then wrapped > the line since it's now really long. I'm sure your second opinion will be forthcoming soon. :-) Still, here's my explanation and rationale. I got slapped for this very thing before becoming a committer, so I'm fairly certain it's the case. The whole reason for the "gratuitous whitespace diff" rule is to reduce the workload for our translators. Many of our translation teams speak/read very poor English, and reducing whitespace changes in commits is their single biggest request. If you don't wrap this line in the same commit, the translator just has to evaluate one line for changes. With the wrap, they must evaluate three. Eliminating these whitespace diffs reduces their workload for this operation by 66%. While this is easy for us, people who don't even use our alphabet, let alone speak English natively, will have a very hard time of it. There was a whole presentation about this at BSDCon, where one of the Japanese -doc translators said, in a very polite way, "Please, please, please don't do this!" (I don't think that that presentation is on-line yet, but it should be soon.) The presenter was Japanese, and spoke very poor English, yet thought it was important enough to get up in front of us and talk through it. BSD is *big* in Japan, and this is really a simple enough way to not shaft our foreign counterparts. They're doing a job that is even more thankless and less fulfilling than what we do. You'll frequently see commits where text is changed, creating a single long line, and then a following commit is made immediately thereafter to wrap the line. This is the preferred way to handle this sort of thing. I've gone through some sections of the FAQ with the whitespace hammer, respacing chapters appropriately where accumulated changes have done some horrible things but nobody has bothered to follow up. We really should document this in the FDP, with examples. It comes up too often. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 16: 1:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from eos.ocn.ne.jp (eos.ocn.ne.jp [210.190.142.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE0637B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:01:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hrslab.yi.org (p0775-ip01funabasi.chiba.ocn.ne.jp [61.119.148.13]) by eos.ocn.ne.jp (OCN) with ESMTP id JAA11902; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:01:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (alph.hrslab.yi.org [192.168.0.10]) by mail.hrslab.yi.org (8.9.3/3.7W/DomainMaster) with ESMTP id IAA67669; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:59:31 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:59:04 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20020222.085904.28781226.hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp> To: mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org Cc: setantae@submonkey.net, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 From: Hiroki Sato In-Reply-To: <20020221170951.B30225@blackhelicopters.org> References: <200202202000.g1KK08V36428@freefall.freebsd.org> <20020221115732.GA575@rhadamanth> <20020221170951.B30225@blackhelicopters.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Lucas wrote in <20020221170951.B30225@blackhelicopters.org>: mwlucas> Many of our translation teams speak/read very poor English, and mwlucas> reducing whitespace changes in commits is their single biggest mwlucas> request. If you don't wrap this line in the same commit, the mwlucas> translator just has to evaluate one line for changes. With the wrap, mwlucas> they must evaluate three. Eliminating these whitespace diffs reduces mwlucas> their workload for this operation by 66%. While this is easy for us, mwlucas> people who don't even use our alphabet, let alone speak English mwlucas> natively, will have a very hard time of it. Thank you for your explanation. I think recognizing that as a problem may be difficult for English writers. Some people I contacted before (those are responsible for a certain documentation project which is not related to FreeBSD) did not accept this rule, and seemed to think the separation as a bore. mwlucas> There was a whole presentation about this at BSDCon, where one of the mwlucas> Japanese -doc translators said, in a very polite way, "Please, please, mwlucas> please don't do this!" (I don't think that that presentation is mwlucas> on-line yet, but it should be soon.) The presenter was Japanese, and mwlucas> spoke very poor English, yet thought it was important enough to get up mwlucas> in front of us and talk through it. You can download the paper from the following location: http://www.usenix.org/events/bsdcon02/tech.htm (but to access papers from conferences of less than a year ago, you will need your USENIX membership.) I am learning English conversation, but it is hard for me (perhaps as you feel it hard to learn Japanese). I hope I'll be able to talk to you at the meeting like BSDCon in the future. Thank you. -- | Hiroki Sato | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 17:13: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3581A37B417 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:12:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1M1Csc31009 for doc@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:12:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:12:54 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020221201254.A30956@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <20020221034421.AE58A3E35@bazooka.trit.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020221034421.AE58A3E35@bazooka.trit.org>; from null@trit.org on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 03:44:16AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, $0.02 from Mr. Not Enough Sleep And Far Too Cranky for Words: Strong point: Internal docs consistency is important. We must pick a standard for these terms, and stick with it. We need standard symbols for this, preferably entities. Middling strong point: I would also suggest that the developer community we support would probably prefer we document in 2^X. They're here to be computer engineers, after all, and computer engineers work in 2^X. (I think this is fairly well established.) If the developers think that -doc has gone off its head, they won't be amused. We don't need any inter-developer flamewars over something this blatantly silly. Weak point: In all of the computer literature I read, such as books and magazines, they use simple KB and MB. (Capitalization of the B is optional.) This is the de facto standard. As a computing project, we need to follow the de facto standard. These docs are meant to be read by people who read these other docs. Perhaps computer scientists are starting to pick up on these other terms, but most of our users are not computer scientists. They are sysadmins, and developers, and users who read many of those same sysadmin books. The only people who use decimal terms in terms of computing are disk drive manufacturers, who do it for marketing reasons. (I believe this was mentioned earlier, but I'm too damn tired to go look for the exact reference.) Very strong point that I will be furious if it is ignored: Blue. With green poka-dots. Or I torch the whole shed to the ground and salt the earth it stood upon. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 17:17:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B077937B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a132.otenet.gr [212.205.215.132]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1M1Gnj8029880; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:16:50 +0200 (EET) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1M1GPw07199; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:16:25 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:16:25 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Michael Wardle Cc: Wouter Van Hemel , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020222011624.GB6716@hades.hell.gr> References: <1014256250.304.66.camel@cocaine> <3C745639.8080509@adacel.com> <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <3C745D8B.9090808@adacel.com> <20020221025358.GB2678@moo.holy.cow> <3C7464B4.70004@adacel.com> <3C74803F.4090004@adacel.com> <1014270449.303.117.camel@cocaine> <3C7490E9.3050100@adacel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C7490E9.3050100@adacel.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-02-21 17:17, Michael Wardle wrote: > Wouter Van Hemel wrote: > > >If we decide to comply, all occurrences in the code should be changed too, > >as not to create a bigger chaos. We simply can't use KiB in our > >documentation, and ignore the difference with the real-life topics we are > >documenting. This is a decision that can't be taken lightly... Surely not > >for something that might never find steady ground in the 'real world' (no > >matter how convenient or correct). > > ... > > Are you saying this because you think the core code team won't like the > proposal? :-P As the documentation is supposed to, err, `document' the code, using similar ways to refer to units in both the code and the documentation seems a bit rational. But that's IMHO, and bearing in mind the minor changes I've done to the source, should be taken with a few grains of salt. Giorgos Keramidas FreeBSD Documentation Project keramida@{freebsd.org,ceid.upatras.gr} http://www.FreeBSD.org/docproj/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 17:54:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from amsfep15-int.chello.nl (amsfep15-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66CA737B416 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from hibernate.cryolabs.net ([213.132.151.88]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20020222015433.OXGL25529.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@hibernate.cryolabs.net> for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 02:54:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 6022 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2002 02:54:31 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO cocaine.cryolabs.net) (192.168.196.5) by hibernate.cryolabs.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2002 02:54:31 +0100 Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units From: Wouter Van Hemel To: Michael Lucas Cc: doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20020221201254.A30956@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <20020221034421.AE58A3E35@bazooka.trit.org> <20020221201254.A30956@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 22 Feb 2002 02:54:36 +0100 Message-Id: <1014342876.177.305.camel@cocaine> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 02:12, Michael Lucas wrote: > Okay, $0.02 from Mr. Not Enough Sleep And Far Too Cranky for Words: > > Strong point: > > Internal docs consistency is important. We must pick a standard for > these terms, and stick with it. > Everybody agrees with that, I guess. The question is: which? Maybe we should send this bomb to -hackers too... > We need standard symbols for this, preferably entities. > Uhm... Do we plan on changing our _units_ weekly or so... > [...] > > Blue. With green poka-dots. Or I torch the whole shed to the ground > and salt the earth it stood upon. > But where will I live then... > ==ml > > -- > Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org > my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 18: 1:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD35E37B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:01:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1M21AJ31244; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:01:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:01:10 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Wouter Van Hemel Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020221210110.A31216@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <20020221034421.AE58A3E35@bazooka.trit.org> <20020221201254.A30956@blackhelicopters.org> <1014342876.177.305.camel@cocaine> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1014342876.177.305.camel@cocaine>; from wouter@pair.com on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 02:54:36AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 02:54:36AM +0100, Wouter Van Hemel wrote: > On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 02:12, Michael Lucas wrote: > Everybody agrees with that, I guess. The question is: which? Maybe we > should send this bomb to -hackers too... NO! IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT'S DECENT AND GOOD -- I suspect that would not be productive. They're using base 2 in the code. We know that. > > We need standard symbols for this, preferably entities. > > > > Uhm... Do we plan on changing our _units_ weekly or so... No, but using an entity helps enforce the standard. Basically, it says, "This bikeshed is now painted. Now shut up." > > Blue. With green poka-dots. Or I torch the whole shed to the ground > > and salt the earth it stood upon. > > But where will I live then... Then you better do what I say, or I shall throw my almighty committer weight around! Whuaaa ha ha ha ha! -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 19: 3:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from amsfep15-int.chello.nl (amsfep15-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C488C37B404 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from hibernate.cryolabs.net ([213.132.151.88]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20020222030353.PEDW25529.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@hibernate.cryolabs.net> for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 04:03:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 26405 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2002 04:03:51 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO cocaine.cryolabs.net) (192.168.196.5) by hibernate.cryolabs.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2002 04:03:51 +0100 Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units From: Wouter Van Hemel To: Michael Lucas Cc: doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20020221210110.A31216@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <20020221034421.AE58A3E35@bazooka.trit.org> <20020221201254.A30956@blackhelicopters.org> <1014342876.177.305.camel@cocaine> <20020221210110.A31216@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 22 Feb 2002 04:03:56 +0100 Message-Id: <1014347037.178.325.camel@cocaine> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 03:01, Michael Lucas wrote: > On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 02:54:36AM +0100, Wouter Van Hemel wrote: > > On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 02:12, Michael Lucas wrote: > > Everybody agrees with that, I guess. The question is: which? Maybe we > > should send this bomb to -hackers too... > > NO! IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT'S DECENT AND GOOD -- > (I believe there's something wrong with your capslock) > > > I suspect that would not be productive. They're using base 2 in the > code. We know that. > Yes, we do. Base 2 it is. But I'd just like to point out here -risking my life- that the code itself might not always be consistent. But I guess _we_ shouldn't care. Point taken. > > > We need standard symbols for this, preferably entities. > > > > > > > Uhm... Do we plan on changing our _units_ weekly or so... > > No, but using an entity helps enforce the standard. > You don't seem to need an entity for that... :) > > Then you better do what I say, or I shall throw my almighty committer > weight around! Whuaaa ha ha ha ha! > Finally we meet the real Michael Lucas. :) > > -- > Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org > my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Feb 21 21:30: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C7937B402 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1M5U2747083; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:30:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:30:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202220530.g1M5U2747083@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: docs/33354: no rsync section in mirror chapter of the handbook Reply-To: Tom Rhodes Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/33354; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Tom Rhodes To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/33354: no rsync section in mirror chapter of the handbook Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:35:43 -0500 I sort of started this, but Peter hasn't gotten back to me yet on the rsync... Otherwise i've been playing around with rsync, and should have something togeather soon, first I want to get the PPP chapter done, the NFS section done and the natd chapter updated. After that, I should be pretty good ;) -- Tom Rhodes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 2: 3:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow057o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC83737B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 02:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from pcow057o.blueyonder.co.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.757.75); Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:03:21 +0000 Received: from fluoxetine.lan (unverified [62.31.193.116]) by pcow057o.blueyonder.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.9) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:03:21 +0000 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:04:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew McKay X-X-Sender: andy@fluoxetine.lan To: doc@freebsd.org Cc: Giorgos Keramidas Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units In-Reply-To: <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> Message-ID: <20020222092132.K79251-100000@fluoxetine.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: GK> Well, I want my bikeshed green. And I'd prefer it all (consistently) GK> written as shown below: GK> GK> Short form Long form GK> ================================== GK> 1 MB 1 Megabyte GK> 1 KB 1 Kilobyte GK> 1 Mbit 1 Mebagit GK> 1 Kbit 1 Kilobit GK> GK> This way, there is no confusion as to whether Mb refers to bytes or bits. GK> Bytes are always capitalized, and denoted by appending 'B', and bits are GK> explicitly mentioned as 'bits' without capitalization. This last Mbit/Kbit GK> notation seems rather clear, and it seems to be some sort of a de facto GK> standard among people working on routers and telecomm guys. This works for me. 'B' for byte and 'b' for bit is a loose standard but the fact that it's implemented inconsistently can lead to confusion (although context is usually enough for most people to work out what it means). 'B' for byte and 'bit' for bit makes it 100% clear, 100% of the time. I also agree with Michael. If these are implemented as entities then a) it's easier to be consistent, and b) it's easier to change them if the IEEE ever insists we stop using SI prefixes to refer to similar sane quantities. To get back to the original thread we can ACTUALLY define the 'K' prefix to mean anything we like, seeing as SI does not use K as a prefix. No doubt the SI advocates would like to suggest that KB refers to a 'Kelvin Byte'. If we defined this as the temperature rise produced by one byte of storage per clock cycle then it would be of much interest to overclockers who would have a standard way of knowing how much heat various storage mechanisms generate in their system. This would lead to an ad war amongst manufacturers all claiming to have the 'lowest KB rating per Mebibyte of memory'. Once this system was established the potential for confusion would be eliminated. For the twenty years in between, where no one had a clue what anything meant ('Quantispeed technology', anyone?), we'd all just ignore everything that seemed inconsistent with what we knew. :) So...would anyone like me to contact the SI committee and offer this as a unit for them to ratify? I think a pay-per-use royalty for the newly coined 'Kelvin Byte' could generate a lot of money for FreeBSD :P Yours, with tongue firmly in cheek, Andy -- Andrew McKay To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 4:20:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76ED037B404 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 04:20:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1MCK3i57472; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 04:20:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Received: from net2.dinoex.sub.org (net2.dinoex.de [212.184.201.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37ABF37B405 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 04:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from home.dinoex.sub.org (home [217.6.200.196]) by net2.dinoex.sub.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1MCDk401483 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:13:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dm@home.dinoex.sub.org) Received: (from dm@localhost) by home.dinoex.sub.org (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g1MCDkXP079455; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:13:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dm) Message-Id: <200202221213.g1MCDkXP079455@home.dinoex.sub.org> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:13:46 +0100 (CET) From: dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org Reply-To: dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.113 Subject: docs/35206: Give information how to mount a photo-cd Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 35206 >Category: docs >Synopsis: Give information how to mount a photo-cd >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Fri Feb 22 04:20:03 PST 2002 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Dirk Meyer >Release: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE i386 >Organization: privat >Environment: System: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE i386 mounting a Kodak photo-cd fails by default. >Description: No hint in FAQ or Handbook. Seraching the mailinglist give not much data. I found an old news snipped that helped. >How-To-Repeat: mount_cd9660 -o rw -v /dev/cd0c /cd >Fix: mount_cd9660 -o rw -v -s 0 /dev/cd0c /cd Can this feature be doucumented? --- src/src/sbin/mount_cd9660/mount_cd9660.8.orig Fri Dec 14 16:17:50 2001 +++ src/src/sbin/mount_cd9660/mount_cd9660.8 Fri Feb 22 12:55:41 2002 @@ -119,6 +119,7 @@ command of .Xr cdcontrol 1 is printing. +To mount a photo-cd you have to specify 0 as the start sector. .It Fl v Be verbose about the starting sector decisions made. .El >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 6:11:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663C137B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:11:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1MEBgl33676; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:11:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:11:42 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Wouter Van Hemel Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020222091142.A33638@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020221003116.GA11893@hades.hell.gr> <20020221034421.AE58A3E35@bazooka.trit.org> <20020221201254.A30956@blackhelicopters.org> <1014342876.177.305.camel@cocaine> <20020221210110.A31216@blackhelicopters.org> <1014347037.178.325.camel@cocaine> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1014347037.178.325.camel@cocaine>; from wouter@pair.com on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 04:03:56AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 04:03:56AM +0100, Wouter Van Hemel wrote: > Yes, we do. Base 2 it is. But I'd just like to point out here -risking my > life- that the code itself might not always be consistent. > > But I guess _we_ shouldn't care. Point taken. Well, it's said that "if documentation does not match code, both are wrong." But until we have examples otherwise, I think we should go for base 2. > > No, but using an entity helps enforce the standard. > > You don't seem to need an entity for that... :) Well, look at it this way. Suppose we settle upon KB=kilobyte, Kb=kilobit. This would be a pain to remember, and once the standard is documented the reader will start to hold us to it. I would find it easier to remember, &kbyte; and &kbit; . The alternative is, "Is that capital B, or small b? I gotta look it up, dang it." > > Then you better do what I say, or I shall throw my almighty committer > > weight around! Whuaaa ha ha ha ha! > Finally we meet the real Michael Lucas. :) Dang, I wasn't supposed to reveal myself to the Jedi so soon! ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 6:14:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A9E37B404 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:13:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1MEDkU33692; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:13:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:13:46 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Andrew McKay Cc: doc@FreeBSD.ORG, Giorgos Keramidas Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020222091346.B33638@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <20020222092132.K79251-100000@fluoxetine.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020222092132.K79251-100000@fluoxetine.lan>; from andy@openirc.co.uk on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 10:04:47AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I like this color. I do have to wonder what a "mebagit" is, however. I know quite a few gits; is this the standard unit of git-ishness? On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 10:04:47AM +0000, Andrew McKay wrote: > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > GK> Well, I want my bikeshed green. And I'd prefer it all (consistently) > GK> written as shown below: > GK> > GK> Short form Long form > GK> ================================== > GK> 1 MB 1 Megabyte > GK> 1 KB 1 Kilobyte > GK> 1 Mbit 1 Mebagit > GK> 1 Kbit 1 Kilobit > GK> > GK> This way, there is no confusion as to whether Mb refers to bytes or bits. > GK> Bytes are always capitalized, and denoted by appending 'B', and bits are > GK> explicitly mentioned as 'bits' without capitalization. This last Mbit/Kbit > GK> notation seems rather clear, and it seems to be some sort of a de facto > GK> standard among people working on routers and telecomm guys. > > This works for me. 'B' for byte and 'b' for bit is a loose standard but > the fact that it's implemented inconsistently can lead to confusion > (although context is usually enough for most people to work out what it > means). 'B' for byte and 'bit' for bit makes it 100% clear, 100% of the > time. I also agree with Michael. If these are implemented as entities > then a) it's easier to be consistent, and b) it's easier to change them if > the IEEE ever insists we stop using SI prefixes to refer to similar sane > quantities. > > To get back to the original thread we can ACTUALLY define the 'K' prefix > to mean anything we like, seeing as SI does not use K as a prefix. No > doubt the SI advocates would like to suggest that KB refers to a 'Kelvin > Byte'. If we defined this as the temperature rise produced by one byte of > storage per clock cycle then it would be of much interest to overclockers > who would have a standard way of knowing how much heat various storage > mechanisms generate in their system. This would lead to an ad war amongst > manufacturers all claiming to have the 'lowest KB rating per Mebibyte of > memory'. Once this system was established the potential for confusion > would be eliminated. For the twenty years in between, where no one had a > clue what anything meant ('Quantispeed technology', anyone?), we'd all > just ignore everything that seemed inconsistent with what we knew. :) > > So...would anyone like me to contact the SI committee and offer this as a > unit for them to ratify? I think a pay-per-use royalty for the newly > coined 'Kelvin Byte' could generate a lot of money for FreeBSD :P > > Yours, with tongue firmly in cheek, > Andy > > -- > Andrew McKay > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 7:21: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from maruja.convex.es (maruja.satec.es [213.164.38.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCBB637B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:20:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from bilbo (brahuer.lis.interhost.com [213.134.48.129]) by maruja.convex.es (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-69917U400L100S0V35) with SMTP id es for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:20:47 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01c1bbb4$620f45c0$998aa8c0@sotao.pt> From: "Rui Fragoso" To: Subject: Documentation - Portuguese Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:19:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01C1BBB4.61A5D590" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C1BBB4.61A5D590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,=20 I would like to help translating the documentation (on my very rare free = time) to portuguese, or join a similar project going on, if i may. Thanks, Rui Fragoso ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C1BBB4.61A5D590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I would like to help translating the = documentation=20 (on my very rare free time) to portuguese, or join a similar project = going on,=20 if i may.

Thanks,

Rui Fragoso

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C1BBB4.61A5D590-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 7:36: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13EA237B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from bmah.dyndns.org ([12.233.149.189]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020222153604.WMGB1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@bmah.dyndns.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:36:04 +0000 Received: (from bmah@localhost) by bmah.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1MFZx236793; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:35:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200202221535.g1MFZx236793@bmah.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Hiroki Sato Cc: mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org, setantae@submonkey.net, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/35155: [PATCH] Misc corrections to the Handbook, chapter 2 In-reply-to: <20020222.085904.28781226.hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp> References: <200202202000.g1KK08V36428@freefall.freebsd.org> <20020221115732.GA575@rhadamanth> <20020221170951.B30225@blackhelicopters.org> <20020222.085904.28781226.hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp> Comments: In-reply-to Hiroki Sato message dated "Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:59:04 +0900." From: "Bruce A. Mah" Reply-To: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:35:59 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If memory serves me right, Hiroki Sato wrote: > Michael Lucas wrote > in <20020221170951.B30225@blackhelicopters.org>: [snip] > mwlucas> There was a whole presentation about this at BSDCon, where one of th > e > mwlucas> Japanese -doc translators said, in a very polite way, "Please, pleas > e, > mwlucas> please don't do this!" (I don't think that that presentation is > mwlucas> on-line yet, but it should be soon.) The presenter was Japanese, an > d > mwlucas> spoke very poor English, yet thought it was important enough to get > up > mwlucas> in front of us and talk through it. > > You can download the paper from the following location: > http://www.usenix.org/events/bsdcon02/tech.htm > (but to access papers from conferences of less than a year ago, > you will need your USENIX membership.) > > I am learning English conversation, but it is hard for me > (perhaps as you feel it hard to learn Japanese). I hope I'll be > able to talk to you at the meeting like BSDCon in the future. I actually enjoyed your presentation and paper quite a bit, and I'm sorry I did not get a chance to tell you this at the time. It gave a good description of the various issues faced by translation teams. All of us -doc folks should really go read this paper. I think your call for a "doc freeze" during the release cycle is a good idea, and I'd like to see us start doing this. Personally, I also need to keep you (and any other translators) better informed about the state of the release notes, as we go through each release. (Your English, by the way, is much better than the little Japanese that I know, most of which comes from eating sushi and watching old reruns of "Iron Chef".) Cheers, Bruce. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 7:37:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD50737B43F for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:37:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1MFbGA34046; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:37:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:37:16 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Tom Rhodes Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Message-ID: <20020222103716.A33912@blackhelicopters.org> References: <200202210600.g1L603b86291@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200202210600.g1L603b86291@freefall.freebsd.org>; from darklogik@pittgoth.com on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 10:00:03PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tom, Much, much better. The patch has gone from the point where I can reject it at first glance, to the point where I have to actually read it in great detail to reject it. :) This means that my comments have a different character. Sorry to be picky here; the idea is to dramatically improve the language in this section. It's not enough to make the handbook better, the handbook needs to suck less. :) On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 10:00:03PM -0800, Tom Rhodes wrote: > + NFS allows your system to share directories and files It's not just your system, it's any system. It's a system. It's the system. It's systems. But not just yours. Which sounds best? (That's rhetorical, don't answer me except in patch.) > - NFS has several benefits: > + Some benefits for using NFS are: "benefits for using" sounds clunky. "benefits of" would be better. There are probably phrases that would be better still. Go through the various options out loud. > > - There is no need for users to have unique home directories > - on every machine on your network. Once they have an established > - directory that is available via NFS it can be accessed from > - anywhere. > + There would be no need for users to have unique home directories > + on every network machine. Once they have an established a home > + directory that is available on an NFS filesystem, > + it can be accessed from other machines on the network. > You've changed the construction of the list in this one. "There would be..." is different from the "there is" used elsewhere. (There is a proper grammatical term for this shift, but I don't care enough to go look it up at the moment.) I think what you're getting at here is that "it can be set up so..." then say it. Cleanly. > > - Storage devices such as floppies and CDROM drives can be > - used by other machines on the network eliminating the need for > - extra hardware. > + Storage devices such as floppy disks, CDROM drives, and ZIP drives > + can be used by other machines on the network. This may eliminate the > + need for every system to have a CDROM or ZIP drive, providing a more > + cost effective solution. > > I would say "This may reduce the number of removable media drives you need," but that's just me, since I'm commenting elsewhere. do we want to list every type of removable media? No. Do we want people to extrapolate? No. While you don't want to treat the reader like an idiot, you want to give the most precise definitions possible. > + How <acronym>NFS</acronym> Works > > - NFS is composed of two sides – a client side and a > - server side. Think of it as a want/have relationship. The client > - wants the data that the server side > - has. The server shares its data with the > - client. In order for this system to function properly a few > - processes have to be configured and running. > + NFS consists of at least two main parts: a client > + and a server. The client remotely accesses the data that is stored Perhaps "a server, and at least one client." > + The client can also run a daemon, known as > + nfsiod. The nfsiod > + daemon services the requests from the NFS server. This > + is optional, and improves performance, but is not required for normal > + and correct operation. See the &man.nfsiod.8; man page for more information. > + nfsiod is optional? (run off to man page) Well, I'll be damned, it is optional. > nfs_server_flags="-u -t -n 4" These flags are still the same as in /etc/defaults/rc.conf. They don't need to be added to /etc/rc.conf, and might in fact make life difficult if the defaults change. They shouldn't be listed here. > - On the client, make sure you have: > + On the client, make sure these options are present in the > + /etc/rc.conf file: You can cut "the" and "file". Anyone who has gotten this far knows that /etc/rc.conf is a file. See earlier comments on default settings. > - The last configuration step requires that you create a file > - called /etc/exports. The exports file > - specifies which file systems on your server will be shared > - (a.k.a., exported) and with what clients they will > - be shared. Each line in the file specifies a file system to be > - shared. There are a handful of options that can be used in this > - file but only a few will be mentioned here. You can find out > - about the rest in the &man.exports.5; manual page. > + The NFS configuration requires that a file > + known as exports exist in the > + /etc directory. "The NFS configuration requires that a file known as exports exist in the /etc/ directory." Blech! Please read this sentence out loud, and then rearrange it to be easier to understand. The /etc/exports > + file specifies which filesystems on the server will be shared (or > + exported), and to which clients. Each line in NFS exports to, not "with" > + /etc/exports specifies a filesystem to be exported and > + with which this will be done. which what? ambiguous pronoun. > Here are a few example /etc/exports > entries: > > > - NFS > - exporting filesystems > + Examples of exporting filesystems > > - The following line exports /cdrom to > - three silly machines that have the same domain name as the server > + > + In the following examples, an idea of how to export filesystems > + is displayed, although the settings may be different depending on > + your environment and network setup. "The following examples give an idea of how to export filesystems,"... shorter, cleaner. > - shared file system. > + exported file system. > + Uh, gratuitous whitespace. Please make obeisances to our translators. > - private network but do not have DNS running. The > - flag allows all the directories below > - the specified file system to be exported as well. > + private network but do not have a DNS server configured. You can have DNS without having a DNS server configured. There is also /etc/hosts. Rewrite to generalize, tersely; don't need to explain the options, just need to mention name resolution. > - machines that have different domain names than the server. The > - flag allows > - the root user on the remote system to write to the shared > - file system as root. Without the -maproot=0 flag even if > - someone has root access on the remote system they will not > - be able to modify files on the shared file system. > + machines with different domain names may access the filesystem. The Different than what. Perhaps "in other domains", but could be better still. > + flag allows the root > + user on the remote system to write data on the exported filesystem as > + root. If the -maproot=0 flag is not specified, then even if > + a user has root access on the remote system, they will not > + be able to modify files on the exported filesystem. But they can modify files. Just not as root. Fine point, there. :) > - In /etc/exports, each line represents > + In the /etc/exports file, each line represents I'd just use "in /etc/exports"; reader knows by now it's a file, we're pretty late in the game. > - filesystem, and you can only have one default entry per local > - filesystem. For example, let's assume that > - /usr is a single filesystem. The > - following /etc/exports is invalid: > + have one entry. For example, assume that /usr > + is a single filesystem. The following /etc/exports > + would be invalid: Oh, it's definitely one default entry, not just one entry. This is valid /usr client1 /usr -maproot=0 client2 /usr/ports > - You must restart > - mountd whenever you modify > - /etc/exports to make changes take > - effect. This can be accomplished by sending the hangup signal > + You must restart mountd whenever you modify > + /etc/exports to make the changes current. current is the wrong word > + This can be accomplished by either sending the hangup signal > to the mountd process: "either" is the wrong word here. > + Alternatively, a reboot should make FreeBSD set everything You've set it up properly. Reboot makes FreeBSD start everything properly. > + up properly if the previously described options were added to > + /etc/rc.conf. Although, a reboot is not necessary. > + Executing the following commands, as root of course, > + should start everything up. Always assume that the reader followed your instructions. It's insulting otherwise. > > - There are many very cool uses for NFS. Some of the more common > - ones are listed below. > + There are many practical uses for NFS. Some of the > + more common ones are listed below: "there are" is a classic passive voice phrase, easy to eliminate when found. "NFS has many practical uses." Shorter, more direct. > + The following NFS examples require > + NFS to be correctly configured before actual use, see > + above. , see above makes the sentence clunky. "As discussed above", or "(see above)" is better. > - Have several machines on a network and share a CDROM or > - floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more > - convenient. > + Set up several machines on a network to share a CDROM or > + floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more convenient. > Of course they're on a network. Excess wordage. Also, gratuitous whitespace. Your initial patch will make the line shorter, but ...often more convenient. is easier for our translators. Your committer will fix whitespace in a separate commit. > > - With so many machines on a network, it gets old having your > - personal files strewn all over the place. You can have a > - central NFS server that houses all user home directories and > - shares them with the rest of the machines on the LAN, so no > - matter where you log in you will have the same home > - directory. > + On large networks, it may be more convenient to configure a Get a dictionary. :) may=permission might=possibility > + central NFS server in which to store all the user > + home directories on. "on" is unnecessary. > + You can use one CDROM on the NFS server to install > + FreeBSD over the network on multiple machines. > I don't like this sentence, but I'm not sure why. > > - Have a common /usr/ports/distfiles > - directory that all your machines share. That way, when you go > - to install a port that you have already installed on a different > - machine, you do not have to download the source all over > - again! > + Several machines could have a common /usr/ports/distfiles > + directory, assuming of course all the machines are FreeBSD. Last comment unnecessary. I share /usr/ports/distfiles to Solaris and AIX boxes; source code is source code is source code. At times I need a port on a Solaris box, and don't want to re-download the program when it's over on the FreeBSD box. Tools, not policy. > - &man.amd.8;, which is also known as the automatic mounter > - daemon, is a useful utility used for automatically mounting a > + &man.amd.8; (the automatic mounter daemon) > + is a useful utility used for automatically mounting a "that automatically mounts" faster, cleaner, terser. -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 8:56:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from heaven.gigo.com (gigo.com [207.173.11.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFE037B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp084-bsace7023.telebrasilia.net.br (ppp084-bsace7023.telebrasilia.net.br [200.163.6.84]) by heaven.gigo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E12B838 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 30337 invoked by uid 1001); 22 Feb 2002 16:52:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20020222165229.30336.qmail@exxodus.fedaykin.here> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:52:07 -0300 From: Mario Sergio Fujikawa Ferreira To: Rui Fragoso Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Documentation - Portuguese References: <002d01c1bbb4$620f45c0$998aa8c0@sotao.pt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <002d01c1bbb4$620f45c0$998aa8c0@sotao.pt>; from rfragoso@interhost.com on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 03:19:32PM -0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE X-Disclaimer: I hope you find what you are looking for... in life :) Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 03:19:32PM -0000, Rui Fragoso wrote: > I would like to help translating the documentation (on my very rare free time) to portuguese, or join a similar project going on, if i may. I am assembling a small group of people in my area to translate FreeBSD documentation to Brazilian Portuguese. http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/translations.html#brazilian_portuguese As all translators know, translation is a both slow and "painful" effort that ultimetily pays off in the long run. For instance, we do not expect to have a translated Handbook before an year has passed. :( But some day, there WILL be a translated Handbook. Isn't that neat? 8) However, there are many smaller articles that can and should be translated in parallel with the Handbook. From your email address, I take you want to translate to the Portuguese from Portugal variant. Therefore, you probably will not be joining us directly but you could try to benefit from what we have already translated and try to adapt to your variant. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. For starters, you should start by reading - FreeBSD Documentation Project: SGML http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/sgml.html which should give you an idea of where to start. Regards, -- Mario S F Ferreira - DF - Brazil - "I guess this is a signature." Computer Science Undergraduate | FreeBSD Committer | CS Developer flames to beloved devnull@someotherworldbeloworabove.org feature, n: a documented bug | bug, n: an undocumented feature To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 14:40: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF9337B405 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:40:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1MMe0v08969; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:40:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A2337B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1MMco008754; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200202222238.g1MMco008754@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) From: Tony Finch To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/35222: mailing list archive URL regexp suboptimal Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 35222 >Category: docs >Synopsis: mailing list archive URL regexp suboptimal >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: sw-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Fri Feb 22 14:40:00 PST 2002 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Tony Finch >Release: web pages >Organization: dotat labs >Environment: >Description: If you look at the following message you will see that the > bracket after the URL has been included in the href link, so clicking on it doesn't work. http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=488915+0+current/freebsd-arch >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 17:20:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF4737B402; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from bmah.dyndns.org ([12.233.149.189]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020223012009.LHJO1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@bmah.dyndns.org>; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 01:20:09 +0000 Received: (from bmah@localhost) by bmah.dyndns.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1N1K2p12853; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200202230120.g1N1K2p12853@bmah.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Wolfram Schneider Cc: bmah@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org, wosch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/34763: Broken link from RELNOTSES In-reply-to: <20020221112109.A1608@freno.cs.tu-berlin.de> References: <200202162125.g1GLPcJ47919@freefall.freebsd.org> <20020221112109.A1608@freno.cs.tu-berlin.de> Comments: In-reply-to Wolfram Schneider message dated "Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:21:09 +0100." From: bmah@FreeBSD.org (Bruce A. Mah) Reply-To: bmah@FreeBSD.org X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:20:02 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If memory serves me right, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > On 2002-02-16 13:25:38 -0800, bmah@FreeBSD.org wrote: > > Synopsis: Broken link from RELNOTSES > > > > Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-doc->wosch > > Responsible-Changed-By: bmah > > Responsible-Changed-When: Sat Feb 16 13:25:12 PST 2002 > > Responsible-Changed-Why: > > Over to the man.cgi maintainer...Wolfram, could you take a look > > at this? > > > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=34763 > > The hardlinks from the arch subdirectory man/man4/i386 > to man/man4 are missing. > > This error occured first in FreeBSD 4.3. > (the manpages in FreeBSD 4.2 works fine). I'm sure there are other people on -doc who are more qualified than me to address this point, but if such links existed, wouldn't that defeat the point of having architecture-dependent manpages in the first place? What if there was a man4/i386/foo.4 and a man4/alpha/foo.4, for example? Bruce. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 17:58:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0AE37B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a154.otenet.gr [212.205.215.154]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1N1wbqO021609; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 03:58:38 +0200 (EET) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1N1wax20152; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 03:58:36 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 03:58:36 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Michael Lucas Cc: Andrew McKay , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020223015836.GA19794@hades.hell.gr> References: <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <20020222092132.K79251-100000@fluoxetine.lan> <20020222091346.B33638@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020222091346.B33638@blackhelicopters.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2002-02-22 09:13, Michael Lucas wrote: > I like this color. > > I do have to wonder what a "mebagit" is, however. I know quite a few > gits; is this the standard unit of git-ishness? > > > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > > > GK> 1 Mbit 1 Mebagit That would be Megabit :) - Giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Fri Feb 22 18: 7:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC5D37B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1N265C36992; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:06:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:06:05 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Andrew McKay , doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: inconsistent use of data units Message-ID: <20020222210605.A36980@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020221022225.GA12900@hades.hell.gr> <20020222092132.K79251-100000@fluoxetine.lan> <20020222091346.B33638@blackhelicopters.org> <20020223015836.GA19794@hades.hell.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020223015836.GA19794@hades.hell.gr>; from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr on Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 03:58:36AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Giorgos, You certainly know how to take the fun out of being difficult. :) On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 03:58:36AM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2002-02-22 09:13, Michael Lucas wrote: > > I like this color. > > > > I do have to wonder what a "mebagit" is, however. I know quite a few > > gits; is this the standard unit of git-ishness? > > > > > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > > > > > GK> 1 Mbit 1 Mebagit > > That would be Megabit :) > > - Giorgos -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org my FreeBSD column: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 3:54: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.datanet.hu (mx1.datanet.hu [194.149.13.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1504537B402 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 03:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from fonix.adamsfamily.xx (nilus-289.adsl.datanet.hu [195.56.93.32]) by mx1.datanet.hu (DataNet) with ESMTP id 0A35BF9A1 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:53:54 +0100 (CET) Received: (from cc@localhost) by fonix.adamsfamily.xx (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1NBsHs39109 for freebsd-doc@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:54:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:54:16 +0100 From: Szilveszter Adam To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Entities in translations Message-ID: <20020223115416.GA1152@fonix.adamsfamily.xx> Mail-Followup-To: Szilveszter Adam , freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello everybody, I am about to ask a translations-related question here, I hope this is OK. If not please point me to the appropriate mailing list. Thank you. So. I am in the process of doing a Hungarian translation of one of the FreeBSD Documentation Project's articles. (I use the Project's infrastructure to build it etc). Now I have a problem with marking up the non-ASCII characters with entities. I read the FAQ for translators in the Primer and it clearly states this should be done, ie the non-ASCII chars should not be entered as is but rather converted into entities. So fine, I even have found some vim scripts under doc/share/examples to do this automatically. But, Hungarian does not use Latin-1, rather Latin-2 for character encoding. Now the problem. After I mark up the page using the Latin-2 entities, and include the ISOlat2 entities at the top of the page, I let openjade generate a HTML version from the DocBook and set the Content-Type as "text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2". But the browsers that I tested do not display the page correctly, except for lynx that somehow is intelligent enough to know what eg ő is. All the others seem to expand the entities that are the same as the ones for Latin-1 and leave the rest and display it to the user. This is, needless to say, suboptimal:-( At the same time, the footer text from the localized freebsd.dsl is displayed correctly, but I did not use entities there. Next, I looked at how other translation teams overcame this problem. What I found was disquieting at best. It seems that the Japanese and Russian teams went completely different way and do not use entities for marking up non-ASCII characters at all (which is understandable, since those are the vast majority) but rather just input text as is. All the Latin character-set using teams so far seem to use Latin-1, which, for some reason works out of the box. The sole exception is the Serbian translation (also Latin-2) but there, again, I saw that the non-ASCII chars were just entered as-is. So now, please advise. Which method should I follow? Should I stick to entities for non-ASCII characters? But then how do I make them display in the HTML rendering in their expanded form instead of the entity itself? Or should I just follow the lead of the non Latin-1 teams and start inputting these characters as-is? What is, for example the Greek Doc Project doing about this? Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of using entities for non-ASCII character markup? Off the top of my head, the only one that comes to mind is that by using entities, even someone who only has access to a non-localized version of FreeBSD can contribute whereas otherwise you definitely need proper fonts etc. But as I see from others, this did not become a major problem. So? I appreciate all help from fellow translators at the Doc Project. -- Regards: Szilveszter ADAM Szombathely Hungary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 7:30: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD2A37B416 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1NFU1528006; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:30:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79B737B416 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:28:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1NFSSE27826; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:28:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nobody) Message-Id: <200202231528.g1NFSSE27826@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:28:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Mercer To: freebsd-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: www-1.0 Subject: docs/35243: newfs(8) EXAMPLES for mount_mfs don't seem correct Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 35243 >Category: docs >Synopsis: newfs(8) EXAMPLES for mount_mfs don't seem correct >Confidential: no >Severity: non-critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-doc >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: sw-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sat Feb 23 07:30:01 PST 2002 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Jim Mercer >Release: 4.5-stable >Organization: Reptilian Research >Environment: FreeBSD gw.cottage.reptiles.org 4.5-STABLE FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #19: Sat Feb 23 05:26:04 EST 2002 root@gw.cottage.reptiles.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/REPCOTT i386 >Description: the man page for newfs/mount_mfs doesn't cite a proper example for mount_mfs. i don't know how to use mount_mfs, but found the man page misleading mount_mfs -s 131072 -o nosuid,nodev,nosymfollow /dev/da0s1b /tmp Mount a 64 MB large memory file system on /tmp, with mount(8) options nosuid, nodev, and nosymfollow. i assume da0s1b should be something like md0c >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 7:35:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.reptiles.org (mail.reptiles.org [198.96.117.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4FC37B400; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:35:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (931 bytes) by mail.reptiles.org via sendmail with P:stdio/R:bind_hosts/T:inet_zone_bind_smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:36:47 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.114 2001-Aug-6 #10 built 2002-Jan-14) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:36:47 -0500 From: Jim Mercer To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/35243: newfs(8) EXAMPLES for mount_mfs don't seem correct Message-ID: <20020223103647.X516@reptiles.org> References: <200202231528.g1NFSSE27826@freefall.freebsd.org> <200202231530.g1NFU1l28002@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200202231530.g1NFU1l28002@freefall.freebsd.org>; from gnats-admin@FreeBSD.org on Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 07:30:01AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org arg. i had a brain seizure. RTFM. please ignore/cancel this PR. sorry. -- [ Jim Mercer jim@reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 ] [ I want to live forever, or die trying. ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 7:40: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1429B37B402 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:40:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1NFe4L29506; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:40:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:40:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202231540.g1NFe4L29506@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Jim Mercer Subject: Re: docs/35243: newfs(8) EXAMPLES for mount_mfs don't seem correct Reply-To: Jim Mercer Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35243; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Jim Mercer To: freebsd-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/35243: newfs(8) EXAMPLES for mount_mfs don't seem correct Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:36:47 -0500 arg. i had a brain seizure. RTFM. please ignore/cancel this PR. sorry. -- [ Jim Mercer jim@reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 ] [ I want to live forever, or die trying. ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 7:50:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10A637B404 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:50:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1NFo1t30805; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:50:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:50:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202231550.g1NFo1t30805@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Cc: From: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Reply-To: Tom Rhodes Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The following reply was made to PR docs/35098; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Tom Rhodes To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: docs/35098: [PATCH] Handbook NFS stuff Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:46:46 -0500 (EST) diff -ru handbook.old/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml handbook/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml --- handbook.old/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml Fri Feb 22 16:16:17 2002 +++ handbook/advanced-networking/chapter.sgml Fri Feb 22 18:30:35 2002 @@ -648,6 +648,13 @@ + Tom + Rhodes + Reorganized and enhanced by + + + + Bill Swingle Written by @@ -658,44 +665,40 @@ NFS Among the many different file systems that FreeBSD supports is - the Network File System or NFS. NFS allows you - to share directories and files on one machine with others - via the network they are attached to. Using NFS, users and - programs can access files on remote systems as if they were local - files. + the Network File System, also known as NFS. + NFS allows a system to share directories and files + with others over a network. By using NFS, users and + programs can access files on remote systems almost as if they were local files. - NFS has several benefits: + Some of the most notable benefits that NFS can provide are: - Local workstations do not need as much disk space because + Local workstations use less disk space because commonly used data can be stored on a single machine and still - remain accessible to everyone on the network. + remain accessible to others over the network. There is no need for users to have unique home directories - on every machine on your network. Once they have an established - directory that is available via NFS it can be accessed from - anywhere. + on every network machine. Home directories could be setup on the + NFS server and made available throughout the network. - Storage devices such as floppies and CDROM drives can be - used by other machines on the network eliminating the need for - extra hardware. + Storage devices such as floppy disks, CDROM drives, and ZIP drives + can be used by other machines on the network. This may reduce the number + of removable media drives. - How It Works + How <acronym>NFS</acronym> Works - NFS is composed of two sides – a client side and a - server side. Think of it as a want/have relationship. The client - wants the data that the server side - has. The server shares its data with the - client. In order for this system to function properly a few - processes have to be configured and running. + NFS consists of at least two main parts: a server + and at least one client. The client remotely accesses the data that is stored + on the server machine. In order for this to function properly a few + processes have to be configured and running: The server has to be running the following daemons: @@ -723,141 +726,134 @@ nfsd - The NFS Daemon which services requests from NFS - clients. + The NFS daemon which services requests from + the NFS clients. mountd - The NFS Mount Daemon which actually carries out - requests that &man.nfsd.8; passes on to it. + The NFS mount daemon which carries out + the requests that &man.nfsd.8; passes on to it. portmap - The portmapper daemon which - allows NFS clients to find out which port the NFS server - is using. + The portmapper daemon + allows NFS clients to discover which port the + NFS server is using. - The client side only needs to run a single daemon: - - NFS - client - - - nfsiod - - - - - - - nfsiod - The NFS async I/O Daemon which services requests - from its NFS server. - - - - + The client can also run a daemon, known as + nfsiod. The nfsiod + daemon services the requests from the NFS server. This + is optional, and improves performance, but is not required for normal + and correct operation. See the &man.nfsiod.8; man page for more information. + - Configuring NFS + Configuring <acronym>NFS</acronym> NFS configuration - Luckily for us, on a FreeBSD system this setup is a snap. The - processes that need to be running can all be run at boot time with - a few modifications to your /etc/rc.conf - file. + On FreeBSD, the setup of NFS is a relatively straightforward + process. The processes that need to be running can all start at boot time with + a few modifications to your /etc/rc.conf file. - On the NFS server make sure you have: + On the NFS server, make sure that the following options + are configured in the /etc/rc.conf file: portmap_enable="YES" nfs_server_enable="YES" -nfs_server_flags="-u -t -n 4" mountd_flags="-r" - mountd is automatically run whenever the - NFS server is enabled. The and - flags to nfsd tell it to + mountd runs automatically whenever the + NFS server is enabled. The and + flags tell nfsd to serve UDP and TCP clients. The flag tells nfsd to start 4 copies of itself. - On the client, make sure you have: + On the client, make sure this option is present in + /etc/rc.conf: - nfs_client_enable="YES" -nfs_client_flags="-n 4" + nfs_client_enable="YES" - Like nfsd, the tells + As with nfsd, the tells nfsiod to start 4 copies of itself. - The last configuration step requires that you create a file - called /etc/exports. The exports file - specifies which file systems on your server will be shared - (a.k.a., exported) and with what clients they will - be shared. Each line in the file specifies a file system to be - shared. There are a handful of options that can be used in this - file but only a few will be mentioned here. You can find out - about the rest in the &man.exports.5; manual page. + The NFS configuration requires that an + exports file be created in the + /etc directory. The /etc/exports + file will specify which filesystems NFS should export (sometimes + referred to as share). + Each line in /etc/exports specifies a filesystem to be exported and + which machines have access to that filesystem. Along with what machines have access + to that filesystem, access options may also be specified. There are many such options + that can be used in this file but only a few will be mentioned here. You can easily discover + other options by reading over the &man.exports.5; manual page. + Here are a few example /etc/exports entries: - NFS - exporting filesystems + Examples of exporting filesystems - The following line exports /cdrom to - three silly machines that have the same domain name as the server + + The following examples give an idea of how to export filesystems, + although the settings may be different depending on + your environment and network configuration. + The following line exports /cdrom to + three example machines that have the same domain name as the server (hence the lack of a domain name for each) or have entries in your /etc/hosts file. The - flag makes the shared file system read-only. With this flag, the - remote system will not be able to make any changes to the - shared file system. + flag makes the exported file system read-only. With this flag, the + remote system will not be able to write any changes to the + exported file system. - /cdrom -ro moe larry curly + /cdrom -ro host1 host2 host3 The following line exports /home to three hosts by IP address. This is a useful setup if you have a - private network but do not have DNS running. The - flag allows all the directories below - the specified file system to be exported as well. + private network without a DNS server configured. + Optionally the /etc/hosts file could be configured + for internal hostnames, please view the &man.hosts.5; man page for more + information. The flag allows for the directories + below the specified filesystem to also be exported. /home -alldirs 10.0.0.2 10.0.0.3 10.0.0.4 - The following line exports /a to two - machines that have different domain names than the server. The - flag allows - the root user on the remote system to write to the shared - file system as root. Without the -maproot=0 flag even if - someone has root access on the remote system they will not - be able to modify files on the shared file system. + The following line exports /a so that two + clients from different domains may access the filesystem. The + flag allows the root + user on the remote system to write data on the exported filesystem as + root. If the -maproot=0 flag is not specified, then even if + a user has root access on the remote system, they will not + be able to modify files on the exported filesystem. + - /a -maproot=0 host.domain.com box.example.com + /a -maproot=0 host.example.com box.example.org - In order for a client to access- an exported file system it must - have permission to do so. Make sure your client is listed in your + In order for a client to access an exported filesystem, the client must + have permission to do so. Make sure the client is listed in your /etc/exports file. In /etc/exports, each line represents the export information for one filesystem to one host. A - remote host can only be specified once for each local - filesystem, and you can only have one default entry per local - filesystem. For example, let's assume that - /usr is a single filesystem. The - following /etc/exports is invalid: + remote host can only be specified once per filesystem, and may only + have one default entry. For example, assume that /usr + is a single filesystem. The following /etc/exports + would be valid: /usr/src client /usr/ports client One filesystem, /usr, has two lines - specifying its exports to the same host, - client. The correct format is: + specifying exports to the same host, client. + The correct format for this situation is: /usr/src /usr/ports client @@ -874,40 +870,40 @@ # client01 has root privileges on it /usr/src /usr/ports -maproot=0 client01 /usr/src /usr/ports client02 -# The "client" machines have root and can mount anywhere -# up /exports. Anyone inhe world can mount /exports/obj read-only +# The client machines have root and can mount anywhere +# on /exports. Anyone in the world can mount /exports/obj read-only /exports -alldirs -maproot=0 client01 client02 /exports/obj -ro - You must restart - mountd whenever you modify - /etc/exports to make changes take - effect. This can be accomplished by sending the hangup signal + You must restart mountd whenever you modify + /etc/exports so the changes can take effect. + This can be accomplished by sending the hangup signal to the mountd process: &prompt.root; kill -HUP `cat /var/run/mountd.pid` - Now that you have made all these changes you can just reboot - and let FreeBSD start everything for you at boot time, or you can - run the following commands as root: + Alternatively, a reboot will make FreeBSD set everything + up properly. Although, a reboot is not necessary. + Executing the following commands, as root of course, + should start everything up. - On the NFS server: + On the NFS server: &prompt.root; portmap &prompt.root; nfsd -u -t -n 4 &prompt.root; mountd -r - On the NFS client: + On the NFS client: &prompt.root; nfsiod -n 4 - Now you should be ready to actually mount a remote file + Now everything should be ready to actually mount a remote file system. This can be done one of two ways. In these examples the server's name will be server and the client's - name will be client. If you just want to - temporarily mount a remote file system or just want to test out - your configuration you can run a command like this as root on the - client: + name will be client. If you only want to + temporarily mount a remote file system or would rather test the + configuration, just execute a command like this as root + on the client: NFS mounting filesystems @@ -916,56 +912,59 @@ This will mount the /home directory on the server at /mnt on the client. If - everything is setup correctly you should be able to go into - /mnt on the client and see all the files that are on the - server. - - If you want to automatically mount a remote file system - each time the computer boots, add the filesystem to - /etc/fstab. Here is an example: + everything is set up correctly you should be able to enter + /mnt on the client and see all the files + that are on the server. + + If you want to automatically mount a remote filesystem + each time the computer boots, add the filesystem to the + /etc/fstab file. Here is an example: server:/home /mnt nfs rw 0 0 - Read the &man.fstab.5; manual page for more options. + The &man.fstab.5; manual page lists all the available options. Practical Uses - There are many very cool uses for NFS. Some of the more common - ones are listed below. + NFS has many practical. Some of the + more common ones are listed below: + + The following NFS examples require + NFS to be correctly configured before actual use, + as previously discussed. + + NFS uses - Have several machines on a network and share a CDROM or - floppy drive among them. This is cheaper and often more - convenient. + Set several machines to share a CDROM or + other media among them. This is cheaper and often + more convenient. - With so many machines on a network, it gets old having your - personal files strewn all over the place. You can have a - central NFS server that houses all user home directories and - shares them with the rest of the machines on the LAN, so no - matter where you log in you will have the same home - directory. + On large networks, it might be more convenient to configure a + central NFS server in which to store all the user + home directories. These home directories can then be exported to + the network so that users would always have the same home directory, + regardless of which workstation they log in to. - When you get to reinstalling FreeBSD on one of your - machines, NFS is the way to go! Just pop your distribution - CDROM into your file server and away you go! + You can use an exported CDROM to install + software on multiple machines. - Have a common /usr/ports/distfiles - directory that all your machines share. That way, when you go - to install a port that you have already installed on a different - machine, you do not have to download the source all over - again! + Several machines could have a common /usr/ports/distfiles + directory. + That way, when you need to install a port on several machines, you can + quickly access the source without downloading it on each machine. @@ -992,14 +991,15 @@ amd automatic mounter daemon - &man.amd.8;, which is also known as the automatic mounter - daemon, is a useful utility used for automatically mounting a + &man.amd.8; (the automatic mounter daemon) + is a useful utility that automatically mounts a remote filesystem whenever a file or directory within that filesystem is accessed. Filesystems that are inactive for a period of time will also be automatically unmounted by amd. Using - amd provides a simplistic alternative - to static mounts. + amd provides a simple alternative + to permanent mounts, as permanent mounts should be listed in the + /etc/fstab. amd operates by attaching itself as an NFS server to the /host and Only in handbook/advanced-networking: chapter.sgml.orig To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 8:42:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C367C37B417; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:42:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1NGapj39926; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:36:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bmah) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:36:51 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <200202231636.g1NGapj39926@freefall.freebsd.org> To: jim@reptiles.org, bmah@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: docs/35243: newfs(8) EXAMPLES for mount_mfs don't seem correct Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: newfs(8) EXAMPLES for mount_mfs don't seem correct State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: bmah State-Changed-When: Sat Feb 23 08:36:33 PST 2002 State-Changed-Why: Closed by request of submitter. http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=35243 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 16: 8:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from coc-ias.coc-snt.com.br (200-206-240-101.dsl.telesp.net.br [200.206.240.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5055F37B405; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from portugalmail.com (1Cust46.tnt59.dfw5.da.uu.net [67.203.43.46]) by coc-ias.coc-snt.com.br (8.11.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id g1O19DT15262; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:09:16 -0300 Message-Id: <200202240109.g1O19DT15262@coc-ias.coc-snt.com.br> To: From: d7354@portugalmail.com Subject: Burn fat with no effort Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:00:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tone your Abs, Thighs, Arms, and more with NO EFFORT ! Don't have time to workout? Tired of all those products that have you get down on the floor? Tired of backaches caused by sit-ups!? NO MORE... READ ON! *TRIM AND TONE YOUR TUMMY IN TIME FOR THE SUMMER! *WORKOUT WHILE WATCHING TV, AT THE COMPUTER, OR EVEN AT THE MALL! *TONE YOUR MUSCLES WHILE AT WORK, HOME, OR EVEN ON THE ROAD! *EAT WHAT YOU WANT THIS HOLIDAY SEASON THEN SHED THE EXTRA FAT! *LOOK AMAZING IN YOUR BEACH WEAR NEXT SUMMER! For complete information: http://www2.software4you2002.com/tv/ Bonus! Order by February 28, 2002 and receive your choice of one of the following "FREE Gifts". 1. Satellite System. $149.95 Value! 2. Digital Cellular Phone. $99.95 Value! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ To opt-Out: http://www2.software4you2002.com/options To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 16:29:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from eos.ocn.ne.jp (eos.ocn.ne.jp [210.190.142.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A469B37B41A for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hrslab.yi.org (p0775-ip01funabasi.chiba.ocn.ne.jp [61.119.148.13]) by eos.ocn.ne.jp (OCN) with ESMTP id JAA21365; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:29:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (alph.hrslab.yi.org [192.168.0.10]) by mail.hrslab.yi.org (8.9.3/3.7W/DomainMaster) with ESMTP id JAA13667; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:13:26 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:09:26 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20020224.090926.85420473.hrs@eos.ocn.ne.jp> To: sziszi@bsd.hu Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Entities in translations From: Hiroki Sato In-Reply-To: <20020223115416.GA1152@fonix.adamsfamily.xx> References: <20020223115416.GA1152@fonix.adamsfamily.xx> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Szilveszter Adam wrote in <20020223115416.GA1152@fonix.adamsfamily.xx>: sziszi> So now, please advise. Which method should I follow? Should I stick to sziszi> entities for non-ASCII characters? But then how do I make them display sziszi> in the HTML rendering in their expanded form instead of the entity sziszi> itself? Or should I just follow the lead of the non Latin-1 teams and sziszi> start inputting these characters as-is? What is, for example the Greek sziszi> Doc Project doing about this? For localized documents, I do not think sticking to using entities for non-ascii characters is always needed. Almost all Japanese characters are categorized into non-ascii characters, but we cannot use entities since they are too many. The advantage to use entities is for original (English) documents. Languages used by translation teams define character code of non-ascii characters on their own terms, so if non-ascii characters are included as is, we would misunderstand what the character means. In addition, the translators often use localized tools (e.g. editors, web browsers) for their work, but such tools cannot often handle non-ascii characters in other language properly. As you pointed out, this do not become a problem for translated documents. I think you can use non-ascii characters as is to write your language, but I also think if we can use entities we should use them because entities do not mislead us to understand the meaning in non-English documents. The Japanese team uses entities for Latin characters, although our Japanese character set has a own set of Latin characters. Any comments or suggestions else? -- | Hiroki Sato | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 17:53:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pinochet.cityline.ru (pinochet.cityline.ru [195.46.160.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFACF37B404; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from Server (ts22-1-a130.dial.sovam.com [212.46.232.130]) by pinochet.cityline.ru (8.11.6/t/08-Oct-1998) with SMTP id g1O1YGs33427; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 04:34:19 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <200202240134.g1O1YGs33427@pinochet.cityline.ru> From: Subject: �� (Direct Mail) Date: ��, 24 �� 2002 00:59:39 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ��, �� . �� (Direct Mail). (095) 741-22-91 �� , Direct Mail - �� . � �� -�� . � �� : 1. �� 2. �� 3. �� : - �� - �� - �� - �� . �� : � �� (�� ); � �� (��; �4, �5, �6, �3, �� ); � �� (�� , �� , �� ); � �� ; � �� (�� 600 000 ��) � �� (�� 70 000). �� . �� . �� . �� : (095) 741-22-91 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 17:54: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from pinochet.cityline.ru (pinochet.cityline.ru [195.46.160.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4300837B422; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:53:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from Server (ts22-1-a130.dial.sovam.com [212.46.232.130]) by pinochet.cityline.ru (8.11.6/t/08-Oct-1998) with SMTP id g1O1YDs33406; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 04:34:14 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <200202240134.g1O1YDs33406@pinochet.cityline.ru> From: Subject: �� (Direct Mail) Date: ��, 24 �� 2002 00:59:37 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ��, �� . �� (Direct Mail). (095) 741-22-91 �� , Direct Mail - �� . � �� -�� . � �� : 1. �� 2. �� 3. �� : - �� - �� - �� - �� . �� : � �� (�� ); � �� (��; �4, �5, �6, �3, �� ); � �� (�� , �� , �� ); � �� ; � �� (�� 600 000 ��) � �� (�� 70 000). �� . �� . �� . �� : (095) 741-22-91 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-doc Sat Feb 23 21: 0:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.tecdigital.net (tecdigital.tol.itesm.mx [132.254.97.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D24537B405 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from Deathstar (unknown [148.243.246.166]) by mail.tecdigital.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C451D20 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:00:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002101c1bcf0$4f073590$0a00a8c0@Deathstar> From: "Mario Doria" To: Subject: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:01:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I found this link http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=676 in Slashdot, I think its appropriate for the FreeBSD press section in the main webpage. Cheers, Mario Doria To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message

TEXTE 4 VERSIONS FRENCH-ENGLI= SH-DEUTSCH-SPAIN

TEXTE 4 VERSIONS FRENCH-ENGLI= SH-DEUTSCH-SPAIN

Cutting edge features

FreeBSD has cutting edge features

Powerful Internet solutions

Industrial strength Networking

Run a huge variety of - applications

FreeBSD has access to hundreds of applications +

Easy to install

Cutting edge features

FreeBSD has cutting edge features >

Powerful Internet solutions

Run a huge variety of > - applications

FreeBSD has access to hundreds of appli > cations > +

Easy to install