From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 02:14:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924BB16A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 02:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E93A143FB1 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 1-0646819856 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:10:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:17:06 +0200 Message-ID: <3F891ACE.30402@softmaker.de> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:11:42 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Subject: TextMaker featured on Slashdot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 09:14:39 -0000 TextMaker for FreeBSD is in Slashdot's BSD section today. If you'd like to participate in the discussion (and drown the "*BSD is dying" trolls), hop on over to http://bsd.slashdot.org Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 02:47:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617D816A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 02:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F4A743FD7 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 02:47:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 10423 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Oct 2003 11:43:12 -0000 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:43:11 +0000 From: Michal Pasternak To: Martin Kotulla Message-ID: <20031012114311.GA10404@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Mail-Followup-To: Martin Kotulla , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <3F891ACE.30402@softmaker.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F891ACE.30402@softmaker.de> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker featured on Slashdot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 09:47:13 -0000 Martin Kotulla [Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 11:11:42AM +0200]: > TextMaker for FreeBSD is in Slashdot's BSD section today. If you'd like > to participate in the discussion (and drown the "*BSD is dying" trolls), Well, as far as I know, the best way to drown a troll is not to feed it, but YMMV :) -- Michal Pasternak :: http://pasternak.w.lub.pl From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 03:09:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297CE16A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C215E43FBD for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:09:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 1-0290162306; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:51:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:57:56 +0200 Message-ID: <3F892460.2030101@softmaker.de> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:52:32 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michal Pasternak References: <3F891ACE.30402@softmaker.de> <20031012114311.GA10404@pasternak.w.lub.pl> In-Reply-To: <20031012114311.GA10404@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker featured on Slashdot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:09:57 -0000 Michal Pasternak wrote: >Martin Kotulla [Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 11:11:42AM +0200]: > > >>TextMaker for FreeBSD is in Slashdot's BSD section today. If you'd like >>to participate in the discussion (and drown the "*BSD is dying" trolls), >> >> > >Well, as far as I know, the best way to drown a troll is not to feed it, >but YMMV :) > > "Drowning" meant posting sensible content, not replying to trolls... :-) Best, -mk From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 05:55:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50AA916A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0373443F85 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eugos@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 9495 invoked by uid 65534); 12 Oct 2003 12:55:09 -0000 Received: from pD951D4D5.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO gmx.net) (217.81.212.213) by mail.gmx.net (mp014) with SMTP; 12 Oct 2003 14:55:09 +0200 X-Authenticated: #19965254 Message-ID: <3F894F44.9020704@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:55:32 +0200 From: Eugene Ossintsev User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031005 X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Kotulla References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> In-Reply-To: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:55:12 -0000 Martin Kotulla wrote: > we have just updated our web pages to reflect the fact that we now > have TextMaker for FreeBSD as well. I guess you could consider that > as a commitment to the FreeBSD operating system and its users. It doesn't support Cyrillic, does it? -- Eugene Ossintsev From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 06:48:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDDB16A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 87A7943F85 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:48:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 3-0109633593; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:59:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:06:04 +0200 Message-ID: <3F895077.1010707@softmaker.de> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:00:39 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eugene Ossintsev References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> <3F894F44.9020704@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <3F894F44.9020704@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:48:50 -0000 Eugene Ossintsev wrote: > Martin Kotulla wrote: > >> we have just updated our web pages to reflect the fact that we now >> have TextMaker for FreeBSD as well. I guess you could consider that >> as a commitment to the FreeBSD operating system and its users. > > > It doesn't support Cyrillic, does it? > In fact, it does -- through code pages. There is a document included called "World Languages.tmd" that describes the ins and outs. Also, see Extras>Preferences to set the default code page to Cyrillic. Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 06:50:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1987B16A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C2243FBD for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMN005V8D3NDI@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:50:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:50:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (daemon@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) h9CDoAsU002316; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:50:10 +0200 (MEST) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B892C; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:50:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D060A469F; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:50:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:50:09 +0200 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> To: Martin Kotulla Message-id: <20031012135008.GD1372@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=oj4kGyHlBMXGt3Le; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:50:14 -0000 --oj4kGyHlBMXGt3Le Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 09:56:22PM +0200, Martin Kotulla wrote: > Hmm, that was a bit unexpected. FreeBSD 5.x is not binary-compatible=20 > with 4.x; AFAICS all X apps have to be relinked with a different set of= =20 > libraries. >=20 > We just did that and now have separate binaries for FreeBSD 4.x and=20 > FreeBSD 5.x. If you are interested in the latest trial version of=20 > TextMaker for FreeBSD, go to http://www.softmaker.de/tml_en.htm and get= =20 > the updated binaries. >=20 > As previously said, I am very interested in all kinds of feedback on=20 > TextMaker for FreeBSD. >=20 I have downloaded the trial for FreeBSD 5.x and I like it so far. Runs without problems. Are you planning to release a Mac OS X version? - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --oj4kGyHlBMXGt3Le Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/iVwQbHYXjKDtmC0RAuHnAKDU4RTdkdk24s6CdbXwDOoczbs7igCgyo6z 9pZBTN6PJAAwo4KeAuTdhL0= =wLWU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oj4kGyHlBMXGt3Le-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 07:38:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC57216A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7AD8D43FBF for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 0-0207577640; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:07:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:13:32 +0200 Message-ID: <3F896047.9060600@softmaker.de> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:08:07 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Brueffer References: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> <20031012135008.GD1372@unixpages.org> In-Reply-To: <20031012135008.GD1372@unixpages.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:38:05 -0000 Christian Brueffer wrote: >I have downloaded the trial for FreeBSD 5.x and I like it so far. Runs >without problems. >Are you planning to release a Mac OS X version? > >- Christian > > > If you mean an X app running under Mac OS X, that's quite possible. If you mean a true Aqua app, that is a LOT of work. Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 12:45:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143D116A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18CD43F75 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:45:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@fishballoon.org) Received: from llama.fishballoon.org ([81.104.195.124]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031012194521.HQSB6394.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@llama.fishballoon.org>; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:45:21 +0100 Received: from scott by llama.fishballoon.org with local (Exim 4.20) id 1A8m8m-000K3M-Jx; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:44:32 +0100 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:44:32 +0100 From: Scott Mitchell To: Martin Kotulla Message-ID: <20031012194432.GD72176@llama.fishballoon.org> References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> <20031011112012.GA55541@llama.fishballoon.org> <3F87EAD8.7040401@softmaker.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F87EAD8.7040401@softmaker.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE-p13 i386 Sender: Scott Mitchell cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:45:24 -0000 On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 01:34:48PM +0200, Martin Kotulla wrote: > Scott: > > Scott Mitchell wrote: > > >Hi Martin, > > > >One thing I've noticed after a few minutes playing with the TextMaker > >trial - whenever I pop up a dialog (File->Open or whatever), system load > >shoot up to 97% and stays there until the dialog is closed. It seems to > >be spinning in the X server, keeping itself as the active window and on > >top of all other windows. Interestingly, this doesn't happen if I turn > >off 'Window Manager Dialogs' in the Look&Feel preferences. > > > Doesn't happen here with FreeBSD 4.8, freshly installed with WindowMaker > running. Anybody else experience this? Well, as I say it's probably something in my setup. I know when my customers come up with weird complaints like this it almost always turns out to be something misconfigured at their end :-) X & KDE are overdue for an upgrade, which may well make this go away, and in any case there's a workaround, so it's no big deal. One other thing - am I right in thinking that TextMaker's Word import doesn't handle Word 'drawings' (the vector-graphics diagrams you can draw within Word, or paste in from PowerPoint)? They just come up as grey placeholder boxes in the documents I opened, although all the bitmap images were just fine. A bit of a bummer if these don't work, as just about every document I deal with at work seems to include one or more of them :-( Cheers, Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID | "Eagles may soar, but weasels Cambridge, England | 0x54B171B9 | don't get sucked into jet engines" scott at fishballoon.org | 0xAA775B8B | -- Anon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 12 17:05:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14D616A4B3 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.lab.cyberlifelabs.com (adsl-64-142-24-131.sonic.net [64.142.24.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C9643F75 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:05:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from milo@cyberlifelabs.com) Received: from cyberlifelabs.com (beastie.lab.cyberlifelabs.com [192.168.1.3]) h9D05C8m017450 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from milo@cyberlifelabs.com) Message-ID: <3F89EC3C.6050207@cyberlifelabs.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:05:16 -0700 From: Milo Hyson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030924 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Advocacy List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: English-speaking user groups in Japan X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:05:19 -0000 My company is sending me to Japan sometime in the next couple of years to establish a branch office. Since we're big advocates of FreeBSD I'd like to know if anyone has any knowledge of user groups there that conduct business in English. I've found many groups, and while they do allow and encourage the participation of foreigners, they, rightfully so, do everything in Japanese. I don't really mind joining these groups as it would be good for our language skills (and our ability to make asses out of ourselves), but it seems that there are enough native English-speaking geeks there that a user group for foreigners should exist. If it doesn't, we'd be willing to host one. Anybody have any insight into this? Thanks in advance. -- Milo Hyson CyberLife Labs From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 00:23:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A97516A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A23F243FB1 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:23:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcrudy@pacbell.net) Received: from adsl-67-121-152-98.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net (HELO pacbell.net) (dcrudy@pacbell.net@67.121.152.98 with plain) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2003 07:23:11 -0000 Message-ID: <3F8A52E8.6010708@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:23:20 -0700 From: Daniel Rudy Organization: SBC Internet Services User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11R6; U; FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE-p13; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> In-Reply-To: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrudy@pacbell.net List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:23:13 -0000 Somewhere around the time of 10/10/2003 21:38, the world stopped and listened as R.Bagby contributed this to humanity: > Found this on a google search. > > The comments were incredible. > > Very unfortunate if this is the only view people have of FreeBSD users. > > > > BABE in the Woods: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD > Open for Business > ... used one of the major BSD variants (other than the highly customized > Mac OS X). Ed Hurst, a writer and a long time GNU/Linux user, decided > to give FreeBSD a try ... > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > The source of much of his problem is that fact that he was using the 5.x code tree. Someone, anyone, should have told him not to use that one but to use the more mature 4.x code tree. That would have provided a much better experience for him. He did say that he will be trying 4.8-STABLE, so let's see what he write about in part 2. -- Daniel Rudy From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 07:49:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAEC816A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (msx.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84FD743F93 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:49:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id <4W53RP1S>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:49:28 -0400 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B4A8059@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: Mike Hoskins Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:49:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Building OO from ports. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:49:31 -0000 > Mike Hoskins wrote: > > >On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Daniela wrote: > > > > > >>On Friday 10 October 2003 20:03, RexFelis wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Someone once told me that 'mere mortals' should > >>>never attempt to build KDE or OO from ports. I built kde3 from ports on saturday. On a P4 1.8Ghz laptop with 512MB. I started at Noon. I went to sleep at 1am and it was still building. I woke in the morning at it was done. Roderick Person Programmer personrp@ccbh.com http://www.ccbh.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 10:27:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C5F16A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C68F43FBD for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:27:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:1119 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A96Tc-0001uC-5Y for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:27:24 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4XTY5SYV>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:24:05 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 4XTTMT3K; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:23:13 -0700 From: Johnson David To: Advocacy Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:26:19 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <200310111021.20897.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> In-Reply-To: <200310111021.20897.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310131026.20013.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1A96Tc-0001uC-5Y*9eQ/8xMMh66* X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:27:33 -0000 On Saturday 11 October 2003 08:21 am, Jonathan wrote: > When those people unleash those flames never consider the > consequences. I have to wonder how many businesses have rejected > FreeBSD because some prospect "asked a stupid question". The whole > flamming and "RTFM" phenomena is really an ego trip for people who > are just so in love with themselves. I have a difficult time envisioning a business getting its information off of IRC. Mailing lists I can userstand. Forums I can understand. But IRC? No offense to those of you using it, but IRC in general has a reputation of peurility. "We sent an executive committee over to the school playground, whereupon several unidentified toddlers proceeded to throw mud at them. The conclusion is to hold off on the OS decision until we find a playground where the toddlers are more friendly." David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 10:41:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80FC16A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C648344005 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:1990 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A96hO-0002rS-5C for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:41:38 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4XTY5S5Z>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:38:20 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 4XTTMTV0; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:37:27 -0700 From: Johnson David To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:40:34 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20031011173842.97043.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031011173842.97043.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310131040.34605.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1A96hO-0002rS-5C*0jALgupLeiI* X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:41:47 -0000 On Saturday 11 October 2003 10:38 am, twig les wrote: > Anyway, it seems like this guy is actually more competent than > most people when it comes to *nix and computers in general, and > he still had problems. The author had a decent *NIX pedigree, but parts of his tale where just bizarre. He never installed the Linux compatibility package, then proceeded to complain that Linux compatibility didn't work. This trickled over into complaints that OpenOffice for Linux didn't work, and that printing in general was a nightmare because he installed the Linux CUPS package instead of the native version. And his account of sysinstall wiping out his logs is downright puzzling. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 11:22:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD71E16A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10105.mail.yahoo.com (web10105.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5718243F75 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:22:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031013182228.54030.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:22:28 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:22:28 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200310131040.34605.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:22:29 -0000 > The author had a decent *NIX pedigree, but parts of his tale > where just > bizarre. He never installed the Linux compatibility package, > then > proceeded to complain that Linux compatibility didn't work. > This > trickled over into complaints that OpenOffice for Linux didn't > work, > and that printing in general was a nightmare because he > installed the > Linux CUPS package instead of the native version. And his > account of > sysinstall wiping out his logs is downright puzzling. Yeah the sysinstall problem was weird. I'm guessing he did a re-install instead of a configure and just didn't want to admit it. And my take on the Linux-compat problem was that he got a broken version bc he was on 5.0, but that definitely set off an alarm in my head since I've never once had linux-compat not work fine so mebbe he didnt install it... Overall he just needs to google, tinker and maybe buy a book, which was my experience with Linux as well. I hope he does that for the 4.x review. ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 15:11:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627F516A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smistad.uninett.no (smistad.uninett.no [158.38.62.77]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2F643F75 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:11:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from he@netbsd.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smistad.uninett.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD9D8292C2; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:11:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:11:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20031014.001141.97355572.he@uninett.no> To: reed@reedmedia.net From: Havard Eidnes In-Reply-To: References: <16262.43787.941530.439241@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.3 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.1 (AOI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: daniel+bsd@pelleg.org cc: netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: CNET: amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:11:44 -0000 > If anyone follows up to CNET, be sure to mention NetBSD too. I did, and "also mentioned FreeBSD". ;-) The author just replied and said that an update to the story would be posted shortly. I sent him the web pointers -- thanks for those. Regards, - H=E5vard From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 15:51:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C4116A4BF for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CB5B43FD7 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (rocky [192.168.0.2]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9DMoCTn031709; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:50:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3F8B2C1C.5070709@401.cx> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:50:04 +0200 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johnson David References: <200310111021.20897.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> <200310131026.20013.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> In-Reply-To: <200310131026.20013.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Advocacy Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:51:10 -0000 Johnson David wrote: > On Saturday 11 October 2003 08:21 am, Jonathan wrote: > > >> When those people unleash those flames never consider the >>consequences. I have to wonder how many businesses have rejected >>FreeBSD because some prospect "asked a stupid question". The whole >>flamming and "RTFM" phenomena is really an ego trip for people who >>are just so in love with themselves. > > > I have a difficult time envisioning a business getting its information > off of IRC. Mailing lists I can userstand. Forums I can understand. But > IRC? No offense to those of you using it, but IRC in general has a > reputation of peurility. > > "We sent an executive committee over to the school playground, whereupon > several unidentified toddlers proceeded to throw mud at them. The > conclusion is to hold off on the OS decision until we find a playground > where the toddlers are more friendly." > > David A bussiness itself will most likely not search on IRC after information, but the people in charge of the bussiness might very well base their decisions on their own experiences. I have a friend that runs Linux, Solaris, NetBSD, even QNX, but he wont touch Free- or OpenBSD. I have tried to convince him to atleast try them, but he refuses and says that he has already tried them once. While I asked why he didnt like them, I was told that he didnt mind the os's themself, it was the communities he didnt like. Appareantly, when he tried FreeBSD he turned to IRC for help, and some morons in a #freebsd channel didnt have enough sense to behave like grown ups. He turned to OpenBSD instead, and got some of the infamous OpenBSD attitude on the mailinglists. Now, he runs just about every os except free and open. Lets say that my friend would start a bussiness, which is not totally hard to believe since he is a really smart guy with sometimes brilliant ideas. What do you think the odds are that he would base his bussines on Open- or FreeBSD? My guess is that it would be yet another bussiness turning to Linux instead of BSD, due to reasons that have nothing to do with the capability of the os. -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 16:48:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCF3D16A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB5943F75 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5A14615227; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 552CB15226 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:47:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200310131040.34605.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Message-ID: <20031013164336.F82067@fubar.adept.org> References: <20031011173842.97043.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> <200310131040.34605.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:48:00 -0000 On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Johnson David wrote: > The author had a decent *NIX pedigree, but parts of his tale where just > bizarre. He never installed the Linux compatibility package, then > proceeded to complain that Linux compatibility didn't work. This > trickled over into complaints that OpenOffice for Linux didn't work, > and that printing in general was a nightmare because he installed the > Linux CUPS package instead of the native version. And his account of > sysinstall wiping out his logs is downright puzzling. these kinds of reports crop up all the time. linux users reporting on first-time BSD expereiences, and vice versa. a lot of these reports came out back in the "BSD vs. Linux" days when linux gurus would misconfigure BSD servers in "performance tests". the point is, don't whine if you don't know what you're doing... if you know what you're doing, and you've verified you're jumping through the correct hoops... sure, provide feedback to help everyone. complaining without actually configuring the system properly really only makes you look like a fool. but, along the user friendliness line, i guess some would argue even a fool should be able to install/use/administer our OS. as such, i guess the report can at least be used to figure out ways we can point lazy (i know the guy isn't clueless based upon reputation, but he has to be lazy if he couldn't even figure out linux emulation) users in the right direction for common "newbie" tasks. then again, reading the docs would have answered most/all of his questions. what else is new. -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 16:51:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD5E16A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6303543FD7 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:51:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 58E7615227; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5808615226 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:51:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3F8B2C1C.5070709@401.cx> Message-ID: <20031013164834.V82067@fubar.adept.org> References: <200310131026.20013.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <3F8B2C1C.5070709@401.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:51:27 -0000 On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > os's themself, it was the communities he didnt like. Appareantly, when > he tried FreeBSD he turned to IRC for help, and some morons in a > #freebsd channel didnt have enough sense to behave like grown ups. He > turned to OpenBSD instead, and got some of the infamous OpenBSD attitude > on the mailinglists. Now, he runs just about every os except free and open. as others have already pointed out, this happens in just about every IRC "community". a project's "community" extends beyond IRC. i've known a lot of very helpful BSD gurus. sure, they may shout "RTFM" if you ask a question on the first page of the handbook, but who wouldn't? the point is, IRC is IRC and has very little to do with the integrity of... anything. especially FreeBSD. if you really base your critical operations decisions on "touchy feely" IRC encounters... well, i'll just continue laughing to myself. -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 13 19:35:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F3C16A4B3 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96A943F93 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031014023500.EZBB16588.lakemtao05.cox.net@fortytwo>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:35:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:33:43 -0500 From: Vulpes Velox To: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" Message-Id: <20031013213343.72d6ec87.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <3F8B2C1C.5070709@401.cx> References: <200310111021.20897.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> <200310131026.20013.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <3F8B2C1C.5070709@401.cx> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Johnson David cc: Advocacy Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:35:01 -0000 On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:50:04 +0200 "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" wrote: > A bussiness itself will most likely not search on IRC after information, > but the people in charge of the bussiness might very well base their > decisions on their own experiences. > I have a friend that runs Linux, Solaris, NetBSD, even QNX, but he wont > touch Free- or OpenBSD. I have tried to convince him to atleast try > them, but he refuses and says that he has already tried them once. > While I asked why he didnt like them, I was told that he didnt mind the > os's themself, it was the communities he didnt like. Appareantly, when > he tried FreeBSD he turned to IRC for help, and some morons in a > #freebsd channel didnt have enough sense to behave like grown ups. He > turned to OpenBSD instead, and got some of the infamous OpenBSD attitude > on the mailinglists. Now, he runs just about every os except free and open. > > Lets say that my friend would start a bussiness, which is not totally > hard to believe since he is a really smart guy with sometimes brilliant > ideas. What do you think the odds are that he would base his bussines on > Open- or FreeBSD? > My guess is that it would be yet another bussiness turning to Linux > instead of BSD, due to reasons that have nothing to do with the > capability of the os. Not expecting stuff like that to happen on IRC is childish. Any one that has been on the net awhile should know IRC tends to be that way most of the time. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 01:38:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A07E616A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6563943FAF for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:38:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (malin.twenty4help.se [195.67.108.195]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9E8cLTm035490; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:38:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3F8BB5F8.5090308@401.cx> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:38:16 +0200 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Hoskins References: <200310131026.20013.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <3F8B2C1C.5070709@401.cx> <20031013164834.V82067@fubar.adept.org> In-Reply-To: <20031013164834.V82067@fubar.adept.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:38:38 -0000 Mike Hoskins wrote: > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > >> os's themself, it was the communities he didnt like. >> Appareantly, when he tried FreeBSD he turned to IRC for help, >> and some morons in a #freebsd channel didnt have enough sense >> to behave like grown ups. He turned to OpenBSD instead, and got >> some of the infamous OpenBSD attitude on the mailinglists. Now, >> he runs just about every os except free and open. > > as others have already pointed out, this happens in just about > every IRC "community". a project's "community" extends beyond > IRC. i've known a lot of very helpful BSD gurus. sure, they may > shout "RTFM" if you ask a question on the first page of the > handbook, but who wouldn't? I have never complained about the friendly RTFM pointers that solves most of the questions newbies might have, but if you spend some time on IRC you would see that helpfull pointers to documentation is actually very rare in a lot of IRC channels. Maybe not all of them, but a lot. > the point is, IRC is IRC and has very little to do with the > integrity of... anything. especially FreeBSD. Exactly, and thats why I say its a shame that IRC scares so many potential BSD users away. > if you really base your critical > operations decisions on "touchy feely" IRC encounters... well, > i'll just continue laughing to myself. I never said I make any decisions based on IRC experiences. Im already a die hard BSD believer, and have already made my decision. Ive used BSD since 2.2 and have no intention to stop now. The question as I understood it was if IRC might influence people to actually choose other os's or not. I say it does. If it is wise to use IRC as a reference when you choose is a completely different matter which I wont even go into here, since I think the answer is pretty obvious. -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 02:43:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 072CB16A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF5C43FD7 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:43:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfjak.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.205.84] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A9Lh4-0003WJ-00; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:42:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3F8BC3E9.2B471AFD@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:37:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg References: <200310111021.20897.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> <3F8B2C1C.5070709@401.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a479807bdc28548752b98c2ced6d3c2966a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: Johnson David cc: Advocacy Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:43:45 -0000 Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > Lets say that my friend would start a bussiness, which is not totally > hard to believe since he is a really smart guy with sometimes brilliant > ideas. What do you think the odds are that he would base his bussines on > Open- or FreeBSD? > My guess is that it would be yet another bussiness turning to Linux > instead of BSD, due to reasons that have nothing to do with the > capability of the os. That really depends on whether he puts his personal or business interests first, doesn't it? If your friend really is smart, he'll pick the OS that best deals with the intellectual property issues surrounding his core value invested in his "brilliant idea". For example, the current legal harrassment of Linksys over the Linux core for their router software in an attempt to get code unrelated to the core OS released under the GPL would be enough to put me right off the idea of Linux. That, and the SCO attempt to revoke the UNIX licenses from IBM and SGI, and the implied threat against anyone else that uses Linux in their business. You can ignore this type of crap when you are an SGI or an IBM, but if your pockets aren't so deep, because maybe you are in the first round of funding from a V.C., and your entire budget is $3M, or worse, you've done an angel round for $250,000 and have yet to get a first round, or even worse than worse, you are self funding because you and one or two other people have quit your jobs and are living off of savings while you try to build your company, then the FUD alone is enough to eat your entire wallet in legal fees. Personally, I'd only use Linux if nothing I was doing was going into the kernel, and the system was only being used as a platform -- in other words, when no part of the system which I considered a strategic asset could be used to throw code that I intended to maintain in house and proprietary, and the only code involved with the GPL was tactical. For example, like TiVO (and definitely *not* like the Linksys product)... or SAMBA, which is *all* tactical code, with nothing strategic there at all. Other than that, I think there's just too incredibly much in terms of value add that could be done at the kernel level for pretty much any serious product. For example, if I spent time optimizing the networking stack to get the performance up, then I could use much less CPU, which might in turn allow me to get rid of the need for a fan in the box, which in turn drastically lowers my overall COGS, my MTBF, and my overall risk. At the same time, it raises my profit margins. Frankly, IRC is a sewer. Your friend would be very foolish, indeed, if he weighed all of that as being equal to something some 14 year old typed on IRC, and ignored all of the business considerations for what, after all, is supposed to be a business venture. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 04:06:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071E716A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web40406.mail.yahoo.com (web40406.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8ACE943F3F for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from catlord17@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031014110653.81013.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.75.75.85] by web40406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:06:53 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: RexFelis To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20031010201819.GD49778@q.closedsrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Building OO from ports. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:06:54 -0000 --- Linh Pham wrote: > On 2003-10-10 13:03 -0700, RexFelis > wrote: > > # I built OO from ports on a dial up > connection. > # Twice. What takes a long time is downloading > # everything. The compiling takes only a few > hours > # on my computer (1.533 GHz, 512 megs ram). > > Downloading the main source tarball and the > Mozilla tarball that it uses > does take quite a while. > > Compile times depend mostly on the speed of the > processor, amount of > memory and the speed of the hard drive. It took > my P3-800 laptop with a > 4200RPM hard drive over 12 hours to compile. My > P3-500 with 256MB of RAM > and a 7200RPM hard drive took over 20 hours to > compile. > > Then on my dual Xeon 2.4 under 5.1-RELEASE (SMP > enabled) took under 4 > hours to complete the build and install. > > For me, I definitely notice a nice boost in the > program's response when > building it from ports compared to using the > latest binary package. I have been doing a lot of writing lately, and I have the equivalent of a novelette built so far (16,700 words). It's given me the opportunity to test out OO in a variety of ways. It loads faster from ports than it does under Linux Mandrake from pre-packaged install, that's for sure. And from the experience I had last time I tried to build OO, it works a whole hell of a lot better now. I dare say it works the way it was intended to, meaning everything compiled correctly. Last time I was missing things (like the spellchecking dictionary... thesaurus... and a few other things). I must say, the port maintainers do a fantastic job, and I send them my thanks and kudos. It has definitely been worth the effort to build OO. And it gives me such a sense of delight that we have such a wonderful thing as this in ports! I have to say, TextMaker's got me seriously intrigued, though. Shannon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 13:46:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6EAE16A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A6C043F93 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 22247 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Oct 2003 22:42:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:42:19 +0000 From: Michal Pasternak To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031014224219.GD10429@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline Subject: mplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:46:45 -0000 Hi, I suppose, that we all like to watch movies in divx format - or share short .avis or .mpegs among our friends. As I recall, I've seen many cases, that Windows user was either unable to watch the movie I've sent/borrowed to him/her or had many problems with installing correct codecs (or even finding them). Did you have similar experiences? If the answer is "yes" - well, here's one more point for "FreeBSD on desktop" advocates: users encounter less problems with movies while running FreeBSD. I know, that mplayer runs on variety of *nix operating systems, but - who cares... we don't have to say that :) What do you think? Regards, -- Michal Pasternak :: http://pasternak.w.lub.pl From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 14:07:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F1E16A4DE for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E625C43FCB for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [204.177.173.28]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9EL7g6T050045; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:07:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3F8C658F.7020604@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:07:27 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michal Pasternak References: <20031014224219.GD10429@pasternak.w.lub.pl> In-Reply-To: <20031014224219.GD10429@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:07:45 -0000 Michal Pasternak wrote: >Hi, > >I suppose, that we all like to watch movies in divx format - or share short >.avis or .mpegs among our friends. As I recall, I've seen many cases, that >Windows user was either unable to watch the movie I've sent/borrowed to >him/her or had many problems with installing correct codecs (or even finding >them). > >Did you have similar experiences? If the answer is "yes" - well, here's one >more point for "FreeBSD on desktop" advocates: users encounter less problems >with movies while running FreeBSD. > Agreed - mplayer on FreeBSD runs flawlessly (for me anyway), and I've played several types of movies and media with it. However, I'd love for someone to write up a "converting your mpeg stream to divx on FreeBSD" article. I don't know how to do this really, but I'd love to help figure it out. I'd love to be able to take my favorite movie with me on my laptop when I'm traveling, without having to carry the DVD disc around.. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 14:31:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD6C16A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.e-easy.com.au (eth0.lnk.e-easy.com.au [203.31.73.253]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F43B43F3F for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nigel@e-easy.com.au) Received: from postoffice.aims.com.au (nts-ts1.aims.private [192.168.10.2]) by postoffice.e-easy.com.au with ESMTP id h9ELVCHd043856 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:31:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from nigel@e-easy.com.au) Received: from ntsts1 by aims.com.au (aims.com.au) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.9.0a.R) with ESMTP id 26-md50000000052.tmp for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:31:08 +1100 From: "Nigel Weeks" To: "'Eric Anderson'" , "'Michal Pasternak'" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:31:06 +1100 Organization: E-Easy Message-ID: <00a701c3929a$79d7f1c0$020aa8c0@aims.private> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C392F6.AD4869C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800 In-Reply-To: <3F8C658F.7020604@centtech.com> Importance: Normal X-Spam-Processed: aims.com.au, Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:31:08 +1100 (not processed: spam filter disabled) X-Return-Path: nigel@e-easy.com.au X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.8 required=4.5 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.60 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on firewall.aims.private cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: mplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:31:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C392F6.AD4869C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's the process I use. Attached is the sequence I go through to recode DVD's to 700MB CD's Each step has comments and reasoning, as this cannot be done automatically, especially determining cropmarks and bitrates. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Eric Anderson > Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2003 8:07 > To: Michal Pasternak > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: mplayer > > > Michal Pasternak wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >I suppose, that we all like to watch movies in divx format - > or share short > >.avis or .mpegs among our friends. As I recall, I've seen > many cases, that > >Windows user was either unable to watch the movie I've > sent/borrowed to > >him/her or had many problems with installing correct codecs > (or even finding > >them). > > > >Did you have similar experiences? If the answer is "yes" - > well, here's one > >more point for "FreeBSD on desktop" advocates: users > encounter less problems > >with movies while running FreeBSD. > > > Agreed - mplayer on FreeBSD runs flawlessly (for me anyway), and I've > played several types of movies and media with it. > > However, I'd love for someone to write up a "converting your > mpeg stream > to divx on FreeBSD" article. I don't know how to do this really, but > I'd love to help figure it out. I'd love to be able to take > my favorite > movie with me on my laptop when I'm traveling, without having > to carry > the DVD disc around.. > > Eric > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology > All generalizations are false, including this one. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C392F6.AD4869C0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="3pass_DVD_copy.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="3pass_DVD_copy.txt" # Examples=0A= rm frameno.avi - remove this file, which can come from a previous 3-pass = encoding (it interferes with current one)=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -ovc frameno -o frameno.avi -oac mp3lame -lameopts = vbr=3D3:vol=3D6=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=3Dmpeg4:vpass=3D1 -oac copy = -o movie.avi=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=3Dmpeg4:vpass=3D2 -oac copy = -o movie.avi=0A= =0A= # Usually set the language - saves spending hours recoding spanish=0A= ... -alang en=0A= =0A= #Optionally, use cropdetect to get the optimal crop detection settings=0A= #Usually, run it for a while, and the intro's are typically a different = aspect to the movie(You need the scaling info, as the crop info returned = is dependent on them=0A= =0A= ... -vop cropdetect,scale -zoom -xy 450=0A= =0A= # Optionally crop the black bands from the top and bottom(if you want to)=0A= ... -vop crop=3D714:548:0:14,scale ...=0A= =0A= # Usually rescale video for slower machine(less data)=0A= ... ,scale -zoom -xy 450=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= # The usual commands for running on a P2 300MHz Thinkpad=0A= =0A= # Audio only encode+framing info=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -alang en -ovc frameno -o frameno.avi -oac mp3lame = -lameopts vbr=3D3:vol=3D6=0A= =0A= =0A= # Get the crop marks set up(Run for a few minutes(after intro))=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -alang en -oac copy -ovc lavc -lavcopts = vcodec=3Dmpeg4:vpass=3D1:vbitrate=3D -vop = cropdetect,scale -zoom -xy 450 -o movie.avi=0A= =0A= # First pass video recode=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -alang en -sws 2 -oac copy -ovc lavc -lavcopts = vcodec=3Dmpeg4:vhq:vpass=3D1:vbitrate=3D -vop = crop=3D720:424:0:76,scale -zoom -xy 450 -o movie.avi=0A= =0A= =0A= # Second pass video recode=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -alang en -sws 2 -oac copy -ovc lavc -lavcopts = vcodec=3Dmpeg4:vhq:vpass=3D2:vbitrate=3D -vop = crop=3D720:424:0:76,scale -zoom -xy 450 -o movie.avi=0A= =0A= # =0A= # EXAMPLES=0A= #=0A= =0A= # Good one for Lord of the Rings(Fellowship), on one 700MB CDR:=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -alang en -oac copy -ovc lavc -lavcopts = vcodec=3Dmpeg4:vpass=3D1:vbitrate=3D441 -vop crop=3D450:190:0:30,scale = -zoom -xy 450 -o movie.avi=0A= =0A= # Waking Ned Divine=0A= 700MB CD: 991 bitrate=0A= Cropping(450px movie): -vop crop=3D450:192:0:72A=0A= mencoder -dvd 1 -alang en -oac copy -ovc lavc -lavcopts = vcodec=3Dmpeg4:vhq:vpass=3D1:vbitrate=3D991 -vop = crop=3D450:190:0:72,scale -zoom -xy 450 -o movie.avi=0A= ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C392F6.AD4869C0-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 15:06:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7116F16A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC57243FE3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:05:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1A9XIi-0002LC-00; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:05:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:05:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3F8C658F.7020604@centtech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: mplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:06:00 -0000 On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Eric Anderson wrote: > However, I'd love for someone to write up a "converting your mpeg stream > to divx on FreeBSD" article. I don't know how to do this really, but > I'd love to help figure it out. I'd love to be able to take my favorite > movie with me on my laptop when I'm traveling, without having to carry > the DVD disc around.. Not a howto, but I just published an article by Steven M. Schultz regarding some performance of encoding MPEG-4/DivX (using non-threaded) and MPEG-2 (using threaded encoder) on BSD/OS 4.3.1, BSD/OS 5.0, FreeBSD 5.1 and SuSE Linux 8.2. It is at http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/2003/10/Features110.html Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ p.s. I hope to write an article about Ogg Theora which I pkgsrc-ized (pkgsrc is NetBSD's cross-platform ports framework) and have been using it for a few months. Anyone else using Ogg Theora for video? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 14 15:22:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564A516A4B3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE06B43FCB for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:22:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031014222257.MFJP16588.lakemtao05.cox.net@fortytwo>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:22:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:21:46 -0500 From: Vulpes Velox To: Eric Anderson Message-Id: <20031014172146.6ecf13f6.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <3F8C658F.7020604@centtech.com> References: <20031014224219.GD10429@pasternak.w.lub.pl> <3F8C658F.7020604@centtech.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Michal Pasternak Subject: Re: mplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:22:59 -0000 On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:07:27 -0500 Eric Anderson wrote: > Agreed - mplayer on FreeBSD runs flawlessly (for me anyway), and I've > played several types of movies and media with it. > > However, I'd love for someone to write up a "converting your mpeg stream > to divx on FreeBSD" article. I don't know how to do this really, but > I'd love to help figure it out. I'd love to be able to take my favorite > movie with me on my laptop when I'm traveling, without having to carry > the DVD disc around.. Ohh, that is simple. Just use mencoder to take care of that :) Mencoder is a program what comes with mplayer. It is a uber nice encoder program. I've used it many times for converting mpeg files to avi. mencoder -o -oac copy -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4 that will convert a file to a avi with mpeg4 video and it will just copy the audio... From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 06:26:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC91116A4B3 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C056043F93 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 06:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id <47SJK7JS>; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:26:32 -0400 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B4A806F@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: 'Eric Anderson' Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:26:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: mplayer X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:26:48 -0000 At the bottom of this page I have a link to my script I use. It doesn't do any cropping or anything like that. I went for the higher quality. http://opensourcebeef.bsd.st/osb/code.html Roderick Person Programmer personrp@ccbh.com http://www.ccbh.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Anderson [mailto:anderson@centtech.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:07 PM > To: Michal Pasternak > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: mplayer > > > Michal Pasternak wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >I suppose, that we all like to watch movies in divx format - > or share short > >.avis or .mpegs among our friends. As I recall, I've seen > many cases, that > >Windows user was either unable to watch the movie I've > sent/borrowed to > >him/her or had many problems with installing correct codecs > (or even finding > >them). > > > >Did you have similar experiences? If the answer is "yes" - > well, here's one > >more point for "FreeBSD on desktop" advocates: users > encounter less problems > >with movies while running FreeBSD. > > > Agreed - mplayer on FreeBSD runs flawlessly (for me anyway), and I've > played several types of movies and media with it. > > However, I'd love for someone to write up a "converting your > mpeg stream > to divx on FreeBSD" article. I don't know how to do this really, but > I'd love to help figure it out. I'd love to be able to take > my favorite > movie with me on my laptop when I'm traveling, without having > to carry > the DVD disc around.. > > Eric > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology > All generalizations are false, including this one. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 18 09:00:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78AC16A4B3 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08a.verio.de (mail08a.verio.de [213.198.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B60243FA3 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:00:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08a.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 4-0346812819; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:00:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:06:38 +0200 Message-ID: <3F9163C5.9050306@softmaker.de> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:01:09 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Mitchell References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> <20031011112012.GA55541@llama.fishballoon.org> <3F87EAD8.7040401@softmaker.de> <20031012194432.GD72176@llama.fishballoon.org> In-Reply-To: <20031012194432.GD72176@llama.fishballoon.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:00:33 -0000 Scott: Scott Mitchell wrote: >One other thing - am I right in thinking that TextMaker's Word import >doesn't handle Word 'drawings' (the vector-graphics diagrams you can draw >within Word, or paste in from PowerPoint)? They just come up as grey >placeholder boxes in the documents I opened, although all the bitmap images >were just fine. A bit of a bummer if these don't work, as just about every >document I deal with at work seems to include one or more of them :-( > >Cheers, > > Scott > > > This depends on which version of Word you are using, which version you are saving to, the phases of the moon etc... Word saves its drawings in several formats: simple vectors, OLE objects, Escher drawings (aka AutoShapes), and metafiles. We are importing as much as possible but currently TextMaker does not have a complete AutoShapes import. This (along with the user interface for creating and manipulating AutoShapes) will be in the next release. Actually, the code for our AutoShapes drawing layer is already nearly finished. Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 18 11:41:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28FD16A4B3 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A251843FBF for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 4-061592459 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:40:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:47:20 +0200 Message-ID: <3F91896F.9040102@softmaker.de> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:41:51 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Subject: TextMaker for FreeBSD shipping -- thank you to everybody X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:41:39 -0000 TextMaker for FreeBSD has started shipping today. Thanks to your bug reports, we have been able to squash a last-minute bug (dragging the mouse over the menu bar causing TextMaker to segfault) -- your feedback has been most helpful! I have updated the release binaries and the trial version, so if you want to give TextMaker a whirl, go ahead. URL: http://www.softmaker.de/tml_en.htm Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH