From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 22 10:00:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5496D37B401 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A44043FBD for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5MGxwbr029493; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5MGxu14029492; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:59:56 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: "Michael W . Lucas" Message-ID: <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:00:06 -0000 On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 07:08:30PM -0400, Michael W . Lucas wrote: > Has ftp3 gone to join the penguins? Apparently... :-/ > If so, we should update the DNS... This got done a day or so ago. I'm not sure exactly how/why. I reported it through dnsadm@ but never got a reply so I don't know if that was what prompted the change or if it was caused by someone else. Does anyone know how to get documentation changed? If that's something someone here does can you let us know? If nobody here does it I can try to hunt down who does do it. Some of the stuff we've been talking about lately would ultimately need changes in the info on www.freebsd.org. I thought maybe I'd start trying to figure out how that gets done now in case it turns out to be something that's hard. The stuff on the www site that tells you where to report problems with the top-level FTP sites is wrong right now (says "hostmaster@freebsd.org", it's supposed to be "dnsadm@freebsd.org") so I thought maybe I'd use fixing that as an exercise in learning how documentation gets changed. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 22 10:22:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC0A37B404 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrick.bishnet.net (carrick.bishnet.net [217.204.9.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE9243FAF for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:22:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tdb@carrick.bishnet.net) Received: from tdb by carrick.bishnet.net with local (Exim 4.20) id 19U8XQ-0006X6-2I; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:22:00 +0100 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:21:59 +0100 From: Tim Bishop To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030622172159.GA92594@carrick.bishnet.net> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-PGP-Key: 0x5AE7D984 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1453 086E 9376 1A50 ECF6 AE05 7DCE D659 5AE7 D984 Sender: "T.D.Bishop" X-Bishnet-MailScanner-Information: Contact postmaster@bishnet.net X-Bishnet-MailScanner-VirusCheck: Found to be clean cc: "Michael W . Lucas" cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:22:08 -0000 On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 12:59:56PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > Does anyone know how to get documentation changed? I guess you could look at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/. I suspect the usual procedure would be to checkout the documentation, modify it (and check it :-), then submit a PR for one of the documentation team to commit. Tim. -- Tim Bishop http://www.bishnet.net/tim PGP Key: 0x5AE7D984 From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 22 11:44:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4354637B405 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40DF943FBF for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:44:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB173D28; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:44:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Tim Bishop , hubs@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:44:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3EF5C0E5.6400.30579DF4@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030622172159.GA92594@carrick.bishnet.net> References: <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:44:55 -0000 On 22 Jun 2003 at 18:21, Tim Bishop wrote: > On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 12:59:56PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > > Does anyone know how to get documentation changed? > > I guess you could look at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/. > > I suspect the usual procedure would be to checkout the documentation, > modify it (and check it :-), then submit a PR for one of the > documentation team to commit. In the PR, include the output of : diff -ruN old new -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 22 23:38:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C158237B401; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F3443FBD; Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@cicely12.cicely.de) Received: from cicely5.cicely.de (cicely5.cicely.de [IPv6:3ffe:400:8d0:301:200:92ff:fe9b:20e7]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5N6bjhR030360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:37:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely12.cicely.de) Received: from cicely12.cicely.de (cicely12.cicely.de [IPv6:3ffe:400:8d0:301::12]) by cicely5.cicely.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5N6biRp019467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:37:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely12.cicely.de) Received: from cicely12.cicely.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cicely12.cicely.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h5N6bhgt016106; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:37:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely12.cicely.de) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely12.cicely.de (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5N6bd3R016105; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:37:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:37:39 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cicely12.cicely.de 5.1-CURRENT alpha User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: "Michael W . Lucas" cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: ticso@cicely.de List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:38:08 -0000 On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 12:59:56PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > Does anyone know how to get documentation changed? If that's something > someone here does can you let us know? If nobody here does it I can > try to hunt down who does do it. Some of the stuff we've been talking > about lately would ultimately need changes in the info on www.freebsd.org. > I thought maybe I'd start trying to figure out how that gets done now > in case it turns out to be something that's hard. The stuff on the www > site that tells you where to report problems with the top-level FTP > sites is wrong right now (says "hostmaster@freebsd.org", it's supposed > to be "dnsadm@freebsd.org") so I thought maybe I'd use fixing that as > an exercise in learning how documentation gets changed. If dnsadm@freebsd.org is the official adress then the SOA record shouldn't say hostmaster@freebsd.org. -- B.Walter BWCT http://www.bwct.de ticso@bwct.de info@bwct.de From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 05:35:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4903437B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8093A43F3F for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:35:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5NCZ0br013087; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5NCYxsi013086; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:34:59 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: ticso@cicely.de Message-ID: <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: Ken Smith cc: "Michael W . Lucas" cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:35:10 -0000 On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 08:37:39AM +0200, Bernd Walter wrote: > If dnsadm@freebsd.org is the official adress then the SOA record > shouldn't say hostmaster@freebsd.org. Hmm, that sounds like more "fun" than I'm up for right now but maybe later. So far a few messages to dnsadm@ with a variety of topics have not been answered at all so it seems they're pretty busy (or I'm just not someone they're willing to talk to :-). Right now email to "hostmaster@freebsd.org" does work. You get an automated response telling you to use "dnsadm@freebsd.org" instead but at least it doesn't bounce. Since you get that automated response I figured I'd see if it's possible to change the Web links but ... -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 05:49:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915A337B404; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amun.isnic.is (amun.isnic.is [193.4.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DEB043FBD; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:49:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: from amun.isnic.is (oli@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/isnic) with ESMTP id h5NCnsiu024374; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:55 GMT (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: (from oli@localhost) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5NCnsgw024373; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:54 GMT (envelope-from oli) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:54 +0000 From: Olafur Osvaldsson To: hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=6.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55-isnic X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55-isnic (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: dnsadm@freebsd.org Subject: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:59 -0000 On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Ken Smith wrote: > Hmm, that sounds like more "fun" than I'm up for right now but > maybe later. So far a few messages to dnsadm@ with a variety > of topics have not been answered at all so it seems they're pretty > busy (or I'm just not someone they're willing to talk to :-). > > Right now email to "hostmaster@freebsd.org" does work. You get an > automated response telling you to use "dnsadm@freebsd.org" instead > but at least it doesn't bounce. Since you get that automated response > I figured I'd see if it's possible to change the Web links but ... Seeing all this I would like to offer my assistance in running the dnsadm things. I have been working at ISNIC wich is the registry for the ccTLD .IS since 1998, before that I was managing dns for companies since 1996 and I also administer the systems at RHnet wich hosts the Icelandic FreeBSD mirror. I am experienced with Bind and have time to spare for this. /Oli -- Olafur Osvaldsson Systems Administrator Internet a Islandi hf. Tel: +354 525-5291 Email: oli@isnic.is From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 06:21:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D67937B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from white.imgsrc.co.jp (ns.imgsrc.co.jp [210.226.20.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5982743FE1 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:21:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuriyama@imgsrc.co.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33236429C for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:21:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFC504295 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:21:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by black.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472CC1E4645 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:21:26 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:21:26 +0900 Message-ID: <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 Subject: Re: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:21:31 -0000 # Drop dnsadm@. At Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:54 +0000, Olafur Osvaldsson wrote: > Seeing all this I would like to offer my assistance in running the > dnsadm things. > I have been working at ISNIC wich is the registry for the ccTLD .IS since > 1998, before that I was managing dns for companies since 1996 and I also > administer the systems at RHnet wich hosts the Icelandic FreeBSD mirror. The problem is not administrative resource, but we does not have how to check the request is authoritative or not. We should construct secure updating procedure for FreeBSD.org domain administration. -- Jun Kuriyama // IMG SRC, Inc. // FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 06:29:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8CF837B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E024643FDD for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5NDTEbr014214; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5NDTEq0014213; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:29:14 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Jun Kuriyama Message-ID: <20030623132914.GD12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:29:15 -0000 On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 10:21:26PM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > The problem is not administrative resource, but we does not have how > to check the request is authoritative or not. > > We should construct secure updating procedure for FreeBSD.org domain > administration. This is kind of what I was guessing when I suggested I'm not someone they should be talking to. :-) Were you thinking that it's a matter of identifying people who should be sending in the update requests? Or something more complex? -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 07:07:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD4837B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amun.isnic.is (amun.isnic.is [193.4.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131BB43FE5 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:07:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: from amun.isnic.is (oli@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/isnic) with ESMTP id h5NE78iu025475; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:07:09 GMT (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: (from oli@localhost) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5NE78tN025474; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:07:08 GMT (envelope-from oli) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:07:08 +0000 From: Olafur Osvaldsson To: Jun Kuriyama Message-ID: <20030623140708.GM66199@isnic.is> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=6.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55-isnic X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55-isnic (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:07:15 -0000 Jun, On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > The problem is not administrative resource, but we does not have how > to check the request is authoritative or not. > > We should construct secure updating procedure for FreeBSD.org domain > administration. If that is the problem then those sending email to dnsadm@ should atleast get a responce stating that. When there is no reply the sender tends to think he/she is being ignored or the email never got to the other end. /Oli -- Olafur Osvaldsson Systems Administrator Internet a Islandi hf. Tel: +354 525-5291 Email: oli@isnic.is From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 07:42:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6568737B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from white.imgsrc.co.jp (ns.imgsrc.co.jp [210.226.20.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3814843FAF for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:42:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuriyama@imgsrc.co.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC66425E for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:42:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6E24252 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:42:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by black.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9761E4642 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:42:40 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:42:40 +0900 Message-ID: <7mwufc6ejj.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030623140708.GM66199@isnic.is> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030623140708.GM66199@isnic.is> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 Subject: Re: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:42:44 -0000 At Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:07:08 +0000, Olafur Osvaldsson wrote: > If that is the problem then those sending email to dnsadm@ should > atleast get a responce stating that. When there is no reply the > sender tends to think he/she is being ignored or the email never > got to the other end. Unfortunatelly, some part of above is true. dnsadm@ may respond quickly if he/she is well known or contacted before. So again, we should construct concrete procedure to approve authorized contactee for FreeBSD.org namespace. -- Jun Kuriyama // IMG SRC, Inc. // FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 07:52:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50E637B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amun.isnic.is (amun.isnic.is [193.4.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD7843FE0 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:52:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: from amun.isnic.is (oli@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/isnic) with ESMTP id h5NEqNiu025976; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:52:24 GMT (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: (from oli@localhost) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5NEqN4X025975; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:52:23 GMT (envelope-from oli) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:52:23 +0000 From: Olafur Osvaldsson To: Jun Kuriyama Message-ID: <20030623145223.GA25569@isnic.is> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030623140708.GM66199@isnic.is> <7mwufc6ejj.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7mwufc6ejj.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=6.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55-isnic X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55-isnic (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:52:28 -0000 Jun, On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > So again, we should construct concrete procedure to approve authorized > contactee for FreeBSD.org namespace. OK, so what would be the preferred method of authenticating these requests, something like registration with a password for updating, maybe with some country-code admin access to manage mirrors within that cc? And would it be OK if this registration was through http? This could all be done through a webform and dnsadm@ staff would only get authenticated requests from the system. /Oli -- Olafur Osvaldsson Systems Administrator Internet a Islandi hf. Tel: +354 525-5291 Email: oli@isnic.is From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 07:55:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5062037B404 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7531643FF5 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:55:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5NEtNbr016214; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5NEtN1N016213; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:55:23 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Jun Kuriyama Message-ID: <20030623145523.GB15271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030623140708.GM66199@isnic.is> <7mwufc6ejj.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7mwufc6ejj.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:55:26 -0000 On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 11:42:40PM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > So again, we should construct concrete procedure to approve authorized > contactee for FreeBSD.org namespace. I seem to be in document generation mode. I don't mind trying to come up with the initial pass at this and then circulating it for comment. If anyone has thoughts they are relatively sure I would not come up with on my own feel free to send them straight to me. Otherwise I'll just do my best at guessing what would be best and post it in a couple of days. I do already realize there are more ... groups? ... involved than just the mirror sites (cvsup mirror sites, www sites, etc). I'll try to make sure it's much shorter than the Release Guide... :-) -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 13:38:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84EF37B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-169-104-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.169.104.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCFD043F75 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:38:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF91E66BE5; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CFF05B89; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:38:41 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Jun Kuriyama Message-ID: <20030623203841.GB12966@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:38:45 -0000 --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 10:21:26PM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: >=20 > # Drop dnsadm@. >=20 > At Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:54 +0000, > Olafur Osvaldsson wrote: > > Seeing all this I would like to offer my assistance in running the > > dnsadm things. > > I have been working at ISNIC wich is the registry for the ccTLD .IS sin= ce > > 1998, before that I was managing dns for companies since 1996 and I also > > administer the systems at RHnet wich hosts the Icelandic FreeBSD mirror. >=20 > The problem is not administrative resource, but we does not have how > to check the request is authoritative or not. >=20 > We should construct secure updating procedure for FreeBSD.org domain > administration. Mirror operators should have a publicized PGP key, preferably signed by lots of other freebsd.org community members. Kris --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+92VRWry0BWjoQKURAk2HAKCYD1UJJA1iIBwWGCawfJyXIH0laQCg5/ck F+5jg5zEbCSSdJfR0gOg5JU= =dDgi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 15:43:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92DA837B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C192843F3F for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:43:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5NMhlbr027323 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5NMhkXw027322 for hubs@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:43:46 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030623224346.GA26558@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: DNS stuff... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:43:48 -0000 I started to work on the DNS thing. If nobody provides input (I asked dnsadm@ to see if they want to provide any insight) this is a quick preview of what I thought of. If this seems like a horrible mistake let me know... There is a lot more to it (PGP signatures, @freebsd.org email addresses, etc.) that can be worked out over time but this is the "core"... If nobody thinks this is a horrible direction to take I'll post the whole thing late this week after enough people have had a chance to provide some initial thoughts. FreeBSD.org DNS Admin Guide V0.0 ================================ DNS by its nature is designed to allow delegation of authority. For organizations that are very large this is a good thing but at this time the FreeBSD Organization is not large enough to require much delegation. Having things delegated too much also leads to confusion about who is responsible for what, end-users do not know whom to contact for relatively simple things, etc. There are several more or less distinct groups whose function at least partially involves DNS. The groups are: 1) WWW site administrators 2) cvsup site administrators 3) FTP mirror site administrators 4) email system administrators (support for @freebsd.org email) 5) operations support administrators (provide machine(s) for release builds, ports builds, etc). The group who administer the DNS system itself are assumed to be in (5). Proposed Layout --------------- We propose identifying one person who is the "Coordinator" of each group listed above. By default this will be the only person who can request DNS updates. To make things simpler for the dnsadm@ staff there will be no explicit rules on what sorts of updates any individual Coordinator is allowed to request - it will be assumed each Coordinator knows enough about DNS to make only the requests appropriate to their group's needs and can be trusted to not act maliciously. These Coordinators may appoint other people who are allowed to request DNS changes. FreeBSD Namespace ----------------- Some requests may result in the creation of a new Zone in the FreeBSD Namespace. For example if a brand new Mirror site comes online in a new country its name should be "ftp..freebsd.org". The dnsadm@ staff will take care of adding in the new country code and handle the new zone on the existing DNS server infrastructure. At their discretion dnsadm@ may delegate the namespace and will route update requests to the people responsible for any given namespace. The above mentioned Coordinators need not worry about how this delegation is laid out. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 18:27:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFF637B401 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terry.dorm11.nctu.edu.tw (Terry.Dorm11.NCTU.edu.tw [140.113.192.99]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9972843F75 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:27:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ijliao@terry.dorm11.nctu.edu.tw) Received: by terry.dorm11.nctu.edu.tw (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D15B33D15; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:27:57 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:27:57 +0800 From: Ying-Chieh Liao To: Kris Kennaway Message-ID: <20030624012757.GA66608@terry.dragon2.net> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623063737.GF501@cicely12.cicely.de> <20030623123459.GA12954@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030623124954.GK66199@isnic.is> <7m3ci16iax.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030623203841.GB12966@rot13.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030623203841.GB12966@rot13.obsecurity.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-BETA i386 X-PGP-Key-Location: http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x11C02382 X-PGP-Key-Fingerprint: 4E98 55CC 2866 7A90 EFD7 9DA5 ACC6 0165 11C0 2382 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Helping with dnsadm (Was: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:27:58 -0000 --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 13:38:41 -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Mirror operators should have a publicized PGP key, preferably signed > by lots of other freebsd.org community members. someone wants to host a PGP sign party ? :p -- KISS : Keep It Simple, Stupid. --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+96kdrMYBZRHAI4IRAiHbAKCEjt2+0sxzeyKoMc5Co32h3uUq6ACgzFrV +TT1Zuz/bWdRL2dVmIQ6sm8= =vjrR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HcAYCG3uE/tztfnV-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 09:15:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5D937B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50AD43FAF for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:15:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h5OGFEk6040305; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:15:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h5OGFEKI040304; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:15:14 -0400 From: "Michael W . Lucas" To: Tim Bishop Message-ID: <20030624121514.C40138@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20030617190830.A64564@blackhelicopters.org> <20030622165956.GB29271@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030622172159.GA92594@carrick.bishnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20030622172159.GA92594@carrick.bishnet.net>; from tim-lists@bishnet.net on Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 06:21:59PM +0100 cc: Ken Smith cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp3 no longer a FTP mirror? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:15:25 -0000 On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 06:21:59PM +0100, Tim Bishop wrote: > On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 12:59:56PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > > Does anyone know how to get documentation changed? > > I guess you could look at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/. > > I suspect the usual procedure would be to checkout the documentation, > modify it (and check it :-), then submit a PR for one of the > documentation team to commit. Yep, that would be it. :-) If you want a hand-holding tutorial, feel free to check a set of articles I wrote on the topic: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2001/02/22/Big_Scary_Daemons.html ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.BlackHelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Absolute OpenBSD: http://www.AbsoluteOpenBSD.com/ From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 10:30:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 411BB37B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72FE143F3F for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5OHU2br016150 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5OHU2KX016149 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:30:02 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030624173002.GC11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Good news and bad news X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:30:04 -0000 There probably isn't any point to me waiting so I might as well post this now. If someone does chime in through the next few days and I need to rewrite the whole thing it's no big deal. The bad news is that the DNS Admin Guide is only 20 lines shorter than the Release Guide so I wasn't successful at making it much shorter. The good news is that there is a very short "Executive Summary" section at the very top and that is the only part about 99% of the people will actually care about. It's less than half a screenful. If it would be useful I could retrofit the Release Guide with a similar Executive Summary... :-) The draft will follow in a separate message, I didn't want to scare everyone out of reading any of it based on the number of lines your email client says the message has. Taking a quick peek at the Executive Summary to see if it looks like you want to scream about the proposal is probably worth it. Comments that wouldn't spark discussion (typos, grammar, etc) straight to me, discussion type stuff to the list please. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 10:33:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD66737B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98EA443FA3 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:33:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5OHXbbr016265 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5OHXbQ8016264 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:33:37 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:33:40 -0000 FreeBSD.org DNS Admin Guide V0.0 ================================ [ed: Stuff that is in square brackets with "ed:" is me asking questions or providing info, it will be ripped out of the end result.] [ed: Question: Someone suggested the current "hostmaster@freebsd.org" setup is meant to help as a SPAM deterrent. If yes how can/should that be factored into what gets proposed? Even if it wasn't, should that issue be considered? ] Executive Summary ----------------- The dnsadm@ staff, who handle the updates to the FreeBSD.org DNS information, need a mechanism to determine when update requests should be done or not. A short list of people who are authorized to make update requests will be created. The people will be selected from the five groups (see list in "Background" section) whose operation relies on DNS. The focus of administration will be based on "function", not based on geographic regions though the layout of the FreeBSD.org namespace will continue to reflect geographic regions (e.g. FTP Mirror Sites will be administered together regardless of what country they are in, though their names will continue to include country codes as part of the name so users can easily find "close" mirrors). Introduction ------------ Guidelines need to be established for determining who can request updates to the DNS Information for FreeBSD.org. The updates themselves can be handled by the staff who currently take care of email sent to "dnsadm@freebsd.org" but they need to have a list of who is allowed to make these update requests. The same list will provide the dnsadm@ staff contacts to forward update requests to when unauthorized requests are sent to the dnsadm@ alias. Background ---------- DNS by its nature is designed to allow delegation of authority. For organizations that are very large this is a good thing but at this time the FreeBSD Organization is not large enough to require much delegation. Having things delegated too much also leads to confusion about who is responsible for what among the people responsible for doing the work, end-users do not know whom to contact for relatively simple things, etc. There are several more or less distinct groups whose function at least partially involves DNS. The groups are: 1) WWW site administrators 2) cvsup site administrators 3) FTP mirror site administrators 4) email system administrators (support for @freebsd.org email) 5) operations support administrators (provide machine(s) for release builds, ports builds, etc). The group who administer the DNS system itself are assumed to be in either (4) or (5) [ed: I'm not sure which, anyone know?]. Each of the groups have varying needs, size, levels of organization, etc. Not all groups will have a "presence" in each piece of the FreeBSD.org namespace so dividing things up based on country codes or that sort of thing is probably not the best approach. Proposed Layout --------------- We propose identifying one [ed: two?] person who is the "Coordinator" of each group listed above. By default this will be the only person who can request DNS updates. To make things simpler for the dnsadm@ staff there will be no explicit rules on what sorts of updates any individual Coordinator is allowed to request - it will be assumed each Coordinator knows enough about DNS to make only the requests appropriate to their group's needs and can be trusted to not act maliciously. These Coordinators may appoint other people who are allowed to request DNS changes but should do so conservatively. Keeping things simple is important. For example if the Mirror System is so large that the Mirror Site Coordinator feels the need to delegate administration of European sites s/he can request a second person be allowed to request DNS changes. Again, unless it becomes necessary, no explicit rules will be set for who is allowed to request specific types of changes under the assumption the people granted permission to make update requests know what they are doing. [ed: I can't decide if requiring PGP signatures is overkill...] People identified as Coordinators need to have usernames in freebsd.org. Messages requesting changes should be PGP signed and, if possible, from their @freebsd.org email address. Messages requesting updates should be sent to "dnsadm@freebsd.org", no matter what piece of the FreeBSD namespace the update is being requested for (see below). FreeBSD Namespace ----------------- The FreeBSD.org namespace is currently divided up by country codes. As with much of the Internet it started off as a United States centric thing so for the most part "*.freebsd.org" is in the United States (there are exceptions...) and "*..freebsd.org" is in the country identified by . For some things this is important because it is meant to help end-users find a resource (e.g. mirror site) that is "close". The namespace will continue to reflect geographic region. Some requests may result in the creation of a new Zone in the FreeBSD Namespace. For example if a brand new FTP Mirror site comes online in a country that, so far, has none its name should be "ftp..freebsd.org". Creation of the new ".freebsd.org" Zone would be viewed as a side-effect of the FTP Mirror Site Coordinator requesting the name be created. The dnsadm@ staff will take care of adding in the new country code and handle the new zone on the existing DNS server infrastructure. At their discretion dnsadm@ may delegate pieces of the namespace and will route update requests to the people responsible for any given namespace. The above mentioned Coordinators need not worry about how this delegation is laid out. There are pieces of the DNS information that can wind up out of sync with reality but will not have a Coordinator. One example is the "responsible party" in the SOA records. The dnsadm@ staff are ultimately responsible for those - if requests for changes in those come in any adjustments will be at the discretion of dnsadm@ staff. Handling of Requests -------------------- Requests sent to dnsadm@ will be checked against a list of people authorized to make requests (the list generated as described above) and the PGP signature will be checked. If the message is valid the requested update will be made. If the request comes from someone not approved to make requests (e.g. a random net user tries to point out an FTP server has gone away) on a best-effort basis the dnsadm@ staff will route the request to the primary Coordinator for the group associated with the information (in this case the Mirror Site Coordinator). All current documentation should be adjusted so that errors get routed to the appropriate Coordinator instead of "hostmaster" or "dnsadm". If SPAM is an issue to be addressed perhaps leave the current documentation in place (saying send updates to "hostmaster@freebsd.org") but adjust the autoresponder email to direct people to the Coordinators instead of dnsadm@. Coordinator Duties ------------------ In addition to just sending in DNS update requests it is suggested that the Coordinators record information about the sites they work with. The information about the individual sites should remain with the Coordinators and not with dnsadm@. The Coordinators are in the best position to decide how many Official sites should be present in the individual Zones, when an individual site is no longer performing satisfactorily, etc. If a Coordinator needs to leave her/his position they should recommend a replacement. At times the same person may be Coordinator of more than one group as listed above (e.g. at times the Cvsup Coordinator may be the same person as the FTP Mirror Site Coordinator) but that will probably fluctuate through time. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 17:54:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE23F37B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from white.imgsrc.co.jp (ns.imgsrc.co.jp [210.226.20.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792D343FF5 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:54:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuriyama@imgsrc.co.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3579429F for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:54:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2E8429E for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:54:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by black.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A421E460E for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:54:07 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:54:07 +0900 Message-ID: <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:54:11 -0000 # Though writing guideline is good thing, but we are not reached to # write such a long article. We are at discussion stage which needs # more simple text... At Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:33:37 -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > There are several more or less distinct groups whose function at least > partially involves DNS. The groups are: > > 1) WWW site administrators > 2) cvsup site administrators > 3) FTP mirror site administrators > 4) email system administrators (support for @freebsd.org email) > 5) operations support administrators (provide machine(s) for > release builds, ports builds, etc). In discussion at hubs@, we should concentrate (1), (2) and (3). (4) and (5) are operated in other area. > Proposed Layout > --------------- > > We propose identifying one [ed: two?] person who is the "Coordinator" > of each group listed above. By default this will be the only person > who can request DNS updates. To make things simpler for the dnsadm@ > staff there will be no explicit rules on what sorts of updates any > individual Coordinator is allowed to request - it will be assumed each > Coordinator knows enough about DNS to make only the requests > appropriate to their group's needs and can be trusted to not act > maliciously. These Coordinators may appoint other people who are > allowed to request DNS changes but should do so conservatively. > Keeping things simple is important. For example if the Mirror System > is so large that the Mirror Site Coordinator feels the need to > delegate administration of European sites s/he can request a second > person be allowed to request DNS changes. Again, unless it becomes > necessary, no explicit rules will be set for who is allowed to request > specific types of changes under the assumption the people granted > permission to make update requests know what they are doing. > > [ed: I can't decide if requiring PGP signatures is overkill...] > People identified as Coordinators need to have usernames in > freebsd.org. Messages requesting changes should be PGP signed and, if > possible, from their @freebsd.org email address. Messages requesting > updates should be sent to "dnsadm@freebsd.org", no matter what piece > of the FreeBSD namespace the update is being requested for (see below). I like Kris's suggestion, but I don't think we need a bottle neck such as coordinator as above. The idea in my mind is to create "name vs email" table to identify who is authoritative of this DNS name. Like: ftp-master.FreeBSD.org peter@FreeBSD.org kuriyama@FreeBSD.org cvsup-master.FreeBSD.org kuriyama@FreeBSD.org ftp.FreeBSD.org foo@example.net bar@example.com ftp2.FreeBSD.org blah@example.org and, create a collection of PGP public keys of above contactee. If we can prepare this table, dnsadm@ can easily identify the signed request is authorized or not. Ah yes, we need a coordinator to collect these information with secure and authorized way... -- Jun Kuriyama // IMG SRC, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 18:19:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2F437B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E5043FA3 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:19:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5P1Jfbr026783; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5P1JfjN026782; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:19:41 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Jun Kuriyama Message-ID: <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:19:43 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:54:07AM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > The idea in my mind is to create "name vs email" table to identify > who is authoritative of this DNS name. Like: > > ftp-master.FreeBSD.org peter@FreeBSD.org > kuriyama@FreeBSD.org > cvsup-master.FreeBSD.org kuriyama@FreeBSD.org > ftp.FreeBSD.org foo@example.net > bar@example.com > ftp2.FreeBSD.org blah@example.org > > and, create a collection of PGP public keys of above contactee. > > If we can prepare this table, dnsadm@ can easily identify the signed > request is authorized or not. I'm not understanding the kinds of questions dnsadm@ needs to handle then. I thought the things they would need to handle are things like: - Please add "ftp13.freebsd.org" [where that doesn't exist yet] - ftp3.freebsd.org stopped carrying FreeBSD (and now the Admin there is no longer answering anyone's email) For those cases having a registered contact for that site is either premature (first case) or useless (second case). In the first case who decides whether a new mirror site is warranted? It seems like that leaves those kinds of decisions in the hands of dnsadm@. In the second case who has the authority to "revoke" ftp3.freebsd.org from the site that stopped carrying FreeBSD and shift it to something else? Could you give some examples of the sorts of questions/email/whatever that you want the system we design to take care of? -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 23:11:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1966E37B401 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B4A43FE0 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:11:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:10:59 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:11:04 -0000 --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Ken Smith wrote on Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 09:19:41PM -0400: [..] > I thought the things they would need to handle are things like: >=20 > - Please add "ftp13.freebsd.org" [where that doesn't exist > yet] > - ftp3.freebsd.org stopped carrying FreeBSD (and now the Admin > there is no longer answering anyone's email) Hmmm, the not TLD-divided namespace is/should be part of discussion anyway. I think there have already been some suggestions to regorganise it (put the US mirrors under us.freebsd.org, select most responsive set of worldwide mirrors to populate ftpX.freebsd.org, etc). > For those cases having a registered contact for that site is either > premature (first case) or useless (second case). In the first case > who decides whether a new mirror site is warranted? It seems like > that leaves those kinds of decisions in the hands of dnsadm@. In > the second case who has the authority to "revoke" ftp3.freebsd.org > from the site that stopped carrying FreeBSD and shift it to something > else? [..] > Could you give some examples of the sorts of questions/email/whatever > that you want the system we design to take care of? [..] Handling delegation for country code subdomains. This is requested every once in a while, and it's more crucial, because it can affect many sites and many services. Not only an authorization mechanism (like PGP) needs to be established, but also guidelines for mirror/service operators of that zone how to select and authorize their responsible zone admin, who can issue requests for changes in the delegation (or ask for delegation in the first place, if the subdomain does not exist, yet). Best regards, Daniel --=20 IRCnet: Mr-Spock - All your .sigs are belong to us - Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIXgAYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIXcTCCF20CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC FUAwggbMMIIFtKADAgECAgIVezANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAP BgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVu Y2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJH LUJlbnV0emVyLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDMwNTIwMTIz MTQyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBqzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVu MSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZ RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEUMBIGA1UEAxMLRGFuaWVsIExhbmcxJDAiBgkq hkiG9w0BCQEWFWRhbmllbC5sYW5nQGluLnR1bS5kZTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAw gYkCgYEAk55VXazdhYUuEJAHmO439gJwKVfvcdF64VyP8tzhYwiIx/9FOsQj8r8Gw2g0MDCa X2mCNiSKz32sUI33SQFhBhwxoF6bpq7d6pfeJ7UL+2T/bkRVF/Y7zPuMMK/wMbiEwyfvdjxk 8XsVtpj500LjW7QYdAHlijHRAY2nFk4f8bcCAwEAAaOCA38wggN7MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAw HQYDVR0OBBYEFPMLcu3eegcL6m8ObwlveYDdoYOpMIHKBgNVHSMEgcIwgb+AFK81Ou8wbY/H n0tx1dgCig9IKGPUoYGjpIGgMIGdMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTERMA8GA1UEBxMITXVlbmNoZW4x KTAnBgNVBAoTIFRlY2huaXNjaGUgVW5pdmVyc2l0YWV0IE11ZW5jaGVuMSIwIAYDVQQLExlG YWt1bHRhZXQgZnVlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlrMQ8wDQYDVQQDEwZSQkctQ0ExGzAZBgkqhkiG9w0B CQEWDGNhQGluLnR1bS5kZYIBAjAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUH AwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMIGxBgNVHREEgakwgaaBD2xhbmdkQGluLnR1bS5kZYEVZGFuaWVsLmxh bmdAaW4udHVtLmRlgR9sYW5nZEBpbmZvcm1hdGlrLnR1LW11ZW5jaGVuLmRlgSVkYW5pZWwu bGFuZ0BpbmZvcm1hdGlrLnR1LW11ZW5jaGVuLmRlgRBsYW5nZEBjcy50dW0uZWR1gRZkYW5p ZWwubGFuZ0Bjcy50dW0uZWR1gQpkbEBsZW8ub3JnMAkGA1UdEgQCMAAwOAYDVR0fBDEwLzAt oCugKYYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jcmxzL3VzZXJjYV9jcmwuY3JsMBEGCWCGSAGG +EIBAQQEAwIFoDCBnwYJYIZIAYb4QgENBIGRFoGORGllc2VzIFplcnRpZmlrYXQgd3VyZGUg YXVzZ2VzdGVsbHQgZnVlciBEYW5pZWwgTGFuZyB2b24gZGVyIFJCRy1CZW51dHplci1DQSwg RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpayBkZXIgVGVjaG5pc2NoZW4gVW5pdmVyc2l0YWV0 IE11ZW5jaGVuLjA2BglghkgBhvhCAQMEKRYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jZ2ktYmlu L3VzZXJjYS1yZXY/MDIGCWCGSAGG+EIBBAQlFiNodHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NnaS1i aW4vY2EtcmV2PzA2BglghkgBhvhCAQgEKRYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9wb2xpY2ll cy9yYmdjYS5odG1sMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQAGrfB5rH9D6jl6Tx+hwXpv0a/TuV39 vIQWMCA1hi0V4pI+bMyGTW1k/Ve5C58wRZv7CSTnxTGoqZmqnV37GGQlZBmvsDE+u3FKL/T7 Tk/rlVajExCXGHwjgHp2FfCaVMawKSUrI60aDcUgLUtT2DKpEfKfr/MC7CDtCaYy6TW93cHc uv2oM+1PN+CIcR5PaqEySmeYoXBMXd6sktjyNUWLxsNhtFMVnOiwF3SZYbRbRobuEWM3o+W7 nijECUIKz8rvK3f/c8v9HlVitMbeaTs4J1nZUR9lsvGLik6vsfIgbmuP6MMkrKFYwq5XTR1x JtMcmvnqcWytpYFDVPGuGaj1MIIHKDCCBRCgAwIBAgIBATANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBnTEL MAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVu aXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRp azEPMA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDIx MDA5MTY0MTAzWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBpDELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11 ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAG A1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUkJHLVNlcnZlci1D QTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FAaW4udHVtLmRlMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8A MIIBCgKCAQEAzAHBIFy4tKTvbMMg037hc9t2jR5MVpEUIPvrSWC4xpbr6Hw7abQW/lRfFpV8 enf9tSgfcl8kvGjAAD8AYeuDash6TQSUjBdZCe7V297oZ0dsuurZBkM5BwvLWF8vMiY+SD/+ XTqhnU6B/E9C+R5VXjXsXV2u9hDtKVC5hqVgnxRM5rT/LsUhcchgAXk2WuI8r9Llb+voPWwM FmHk2jxUwhvxZfGo15HDrvJUgzYsL36SmeYMI9Eo70uGmAQRPVVq2zn/3AC4z8X1cBd3ItnH YPbx0iUH5kEGq2KH5iCndwNq9oaFhKj+Y34wEv5BYl6sb5C9EBvtGyebNwuvmtC3tQIDAQAB o4ICaDCCAmQwDwYDVR0TAQH/BAUwAwEB/zAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUH9QPe0VQVF1D2v8Su/itK/4O QMwwgcoGA1UdIwSBwjCBv4AU2WV+TUF/hD+1KtZ7E519yuW0XRqhgaOkgaAwgZ0xCzAJBgNV BAYTAkRFMREwDwYDVQQHEwhNdWVuY2hlbjEpMCcGA1UEChMgVGVjaG5pc2NoZSBVbml2ZXJz aXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4xIjAgBgNVBAsTGUZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIEluZm9ybWF0aWsxDzAN BgNVBAMTBlJCRy1DQTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FAaW4udHVtLmRlggEAMA4GA1UdDwEB /wQEAwIBBjATBgNVHSUEDDAKBggrBgEFBQcDATA0BgNVHR8ELTArMCmgJ6AlhiNodHRwOi8v Y2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NybHMvY2FfY3JsLmNybDARBglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCAgQwgYQGCWCG SAGG+EIBDQR3FnVaZXJ0aWZpa2F0IGZ1ZXIgUkJHLVNlcnZlci1DQSBhdXNnZXN0ZWxsdCB2 b24gUkJHLUNBLCBGYWt1bHRhZXQgZnVlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlrIGRlciBUZWNobmlzY2hlbiBV bml2ZXJzaXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4wMgYJYIZIAYb4QgEEBCUWI2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5pbi50dW0u ZGUvY2dpLWJpbi9jYS1yZXY/MDwGCWCGSAGG+EIBCAQvFi1odHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRl L3BvbGljaWVzL3NlcnZlcmNhcG9sLmh0bWwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAMzKnULQb6Kd hPNmKKmPSJJUOtbHxGH7Qi8paskt7dzDja/X7wz3524LGN2f05c1uAfyAP9Ar0nFthWy0qeM ueOtrOcSCj8AYwYN5H4drMC8GglQwlkD0M/nhPJ5xtAj8JzNYHzG1DK5tVgoJnF+t4KmTpI6 QJ6Dh3XDoZXubWd0jkHxQIzOKhs9PPjEzydmerC7B3Zt8vh7457Sk6wwZFhXc+nkeIIplnlD sBioOSyF7hZOwx4I2Auxss1zsyUQHCX88sOuZC0kYB7yRd1TMRti8josznux8k13sZBezFMP S2yCuKRBEk5Nt57OyGbIF4O7Mhn01mTnol2BDpTKJek45bIpRvSLl/xRPpjnzxLO1rXtXgCs GtkmXj+Zwo5fnL6OvZIiFgMV4ASsFclZexceHxDjpia1IHSFB/4I5fAys8Bw03idI+rfsla1 mW0AJuw260QgoBz+b+LKGosJdNosMfOJmNl0vW3Kq6NfYpZLkG0YJF9Xo6vsATFk9kNq56ye ila80uE2wDO/BGAcBMWQ4uwfrWqVPoW5X/oHcPISApnCBeZ+LyWvnTkgxCUeyqyxNOvaA/j7 jUoBb9l+GWup8EGND16mR/wYWAxYLgis1pn5QmSTbbKSWKcqDo6HBo1Zx9XRf76CZc7RJRp9 EXqYrkmlL9eg7qcnnS1rJbqxMIIHQDCCBSigAwIBAgIBAjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBnTEL MAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVu aXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRp azEPMA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDIx MDA5MTcwMzUyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11 ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAG A1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJHLUJlbnV0emVy LUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IB DwAwggEKAoIBAQCtYQ5ycRY6fyrlvJgpeQCNhPxQduU59Kpv6xWId9sHL8NyI7nlmlWzMroD ddIqeg7QvvtPS+xorbQJ9rxh94lXZtwlGPYg4LC/1PHGnDt+8RGiq8GLbHyeJZoQnEGSovyn uR4wZ9qnApFRsXcUZ5W/CSSwjKnQeN39oFj8EC4xtmUuudV65sxGuGToRVoSnjeULJKYBNnC RxVx2MU5exKGQAuvgaVd7Ozb7ziZyWxhVCNrUQOGrSKDgyKLguWTNnD7sSOiOpie3IX8H2DV DvbcKcmMQr8ojwWutNDPadOth+J6qd/modqxB1VbH8wu0lezbhPM5dh7yUFCEqZoXXh9AgMB AAGjggJ+MIICejAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MB0GA1UdDgQWBBSvNTrvMG2Px59LcdXYAooP SChj1DCBygYDVR0jBIHCMIG/gBTZZX5NQX+EP7Uq1nsTnX3K5bRdGqGBo6SBoDCBnTELMAkG A1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZl cnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEP MA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGWCAQAwDgYDVR0P AQH/BAQDAgEGMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggrBgEFBQcDBDA0BgNVHR8ELTArMCmg J6AlhiNodHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NybHMvY2FfY3JsLmNybDAJBgNVHRIEAjAAMBEG CWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIBBjCBhwYJYIZIAYb4QgENBHoWeFplcnRpZmlrYXQgZnVlciBSQkct QmVudXR6ZXItQ0EsIGF1c2dlc3RlbGx0IHZvbiBSQkctQ0EsIEZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIElu Zm9ybWF0aWsgZGVyIFRlY2huaXNjaGVuIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjAyBglghkgB hvhCAQQEJRYjaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jZ2ktYmluL2NhLXJldj8wOgYJYIZIAYb4 QgEIBC0WK2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5pbi50dW0uZGUvcG9saWNpZXMvdXNlcmNhcG9sLmh0bWwwDQYJ KoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAJapnE3b+p2nrryUkfTEl5iKTl7o8hLrB4FbLZsdBs16pIb0fIIq yGR0wlv0Qq5OLHm1hQzGkfhqEb2O+oBQJgaykxAB+6rKKOJdL12LSQrYXbDV8t/isyurwkFi fmcWDxVF4reDcz8F61KrVz46k2KtdY39CcuW+x1xQZRgier+jdBLLsbkM21XkufUrwnnO5Vr j0cD48XmcsVuWF0EkGo49jPHk8LG2cMyhQR/ZT4f1kegi9WmoV4NjKJnEU2QaTfbLUb2i509 RYf31oDnhq6oO1wCcRvVeDfyx5aj0y68sL1ySNmTQEELOmOFPqmVqa9BAR4wzuTXJi9UvOwF tQMsKq9AX4cFegDl4D4E5QQ7JladBMvJ0VALdGSGlGHARQGvO8SvapsOTVPC5n+UD6jwhTw0 pCPSypzIIrpT9vjxD7bDvudOfKguVRuX8poWID7yXcB0ApHdoNIMrGJx1Tc6SN6rGKWYre+W y/AsqMNNmR+YrJn/UOs6lKX9TtaHOFbxNPwo7RgdRg/srESEtIQ5IKkPA0Vt9Eh5H3VWBhrU b1gmvyNTwJFRqYmFhr7jFFdgnX3Jsbw81jl1z4jLdeeslLxs8vmnwQvWRz3BEPo+g0mrIuYt QjSdgGF8xHgyeRxfa8o3P/rncBysyNYe/AdWd6UGPmompEBZuFzSN+G8MYICCDCCAgQCAQEw ga0wgaYxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMREwDwYDVQQHEwhNdWVuY2hlbjEpMCcGA1UEChMgVGVjaG5p c2NoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4xIjAgBgNVBAsTGUZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIElu Zm9ybWF0aWsxGDAWBgNVBAMTD1JCRy1CZW51dHplci1DQTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FA aW4udHVtLmRlAgIVezAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIGxMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEw HAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTAzMDYyNTA2MTA1OVowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFFwawqfrHUM7 MmrtygJ3maMoqkQnMFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUABIGAAGoclYCJc5nb7NEPyAzq2xZCQXAWJy3KpQgEgP1Wvw9x6sury+OEJuc0PdrtIixx HRpTEupPSec5Kobn+NG7FCYT6cXwYDzS5smTDwJ5MI36y8nZ/TTPTbab6bn8UUvoUPBRitqp o3asfsH4V4bsj43aVuIgEDBusbKuILr0GaM= --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 00:17:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6E437B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC01443F3F for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:17:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5P7H6br002459; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5P7H543002458; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:17:05 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Daniel Lang Message-ID: <20030625071704.GB1478@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:17:09 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 08:10:59AM +0200, Daniel Lang wrote: > Hmmm, the not TLD-divided namespace is/should be part of > discussion anyway. I think there have already been some > suggestions to regorganise it (put the US mirrors under > us.freebsd.org, select most responsive set of worldwide > mirrors to populate ftpX.freebsd.org, etc). Cool. I've sorta felt the US-centric nature of the net should be adjusted whenever possible so us.freebsd.org is good IMO... But this does kind of circle back to dnsadm@ not necessarily being the best people to decide these issues, and that these sorts of decisions should be done by one person or a group of people who are more intimately involved in the mirror system (the Coordinators). > > Could you give some examples of the sorts of questions/email/whatever > > that you want the system we design to take care of? > [..] > > Handling delegation for country code subdomains. This is requested > every once in a while, and it's more crucial, because it can affect > many sites and many services. Not only an authorization mechanism > (like PGP) needs to be established, but also guidelines for > mirror/service operators of that zone how to select and authorize > their responsible zone admin, who can issue requests for changes > in the delegation (or ask for delegation in the first place, if > the subdomain does not exist, yet). The proposal's suggestion for that was to "internalize" it inside of dnsadm@ and they decide strictly based on the *DNS* mechanics of things. Are the DNS servers overloaded? Are there so many requests for that it would be convenient to have another set of hands doing the edits for that? Would we like to have another DNS server in but perhaps it is sufficient to make it a pure slave server and still keep master info on the main master site (thus nameservice queries in may flow better but updates still happen centrally). Creation of the country code based subdomains happen automatically and with no "special" authorization as a side-effect of the Mirror Coordinator (or whatever, that's the question Jun raised) saying there is a new mirror site in that country. I think this is one of those things that need to be evaluated on a cost/benefit basis. What is the benefit to allowing this sort of delegation to begin with? I'm not completely sure what the answer is to that - I'm sure I only have a partial picture of it. I have seen the cost though - it seems to confuse a lot of people and they're not sure where to ask for stuff. The current layout seems to be that a "Region" as much as possible is left to decide issues like how many FTP mirror sites to have, etc. on their own. That's a really good thing as long as the Regions are well defined, those Regions have a strong leadership within themselves, etc. But I'm not sure it's working. Working with an example at hand, we have a site in Croatia that has been given access to ftp-master and is ready to join in as ftp.il.freebsd.org. But il.freebsd.org doesn't exist. It needs to be handled centrally but who is that? The folks doing us.freebsd.org by default? Someone needs to realize that they are the coordinator for anything that doesn't have its own strong Regional leadership. Things fall through cracks. And, as the delegation changes, all of that becomes a moving target for the people who are trying to administer the WWW sites for example (now suddenly a new Region popped up so person X doesn't need to worry about requests from that region any more, it's person Y). And as you say, what happens if there is a LOT of interest in Croatia for FTP mirror service and they want to administer that locally but they have zero interest in CVSup? All of this is something you need to live with in a truly large organization. But is the DNS administration such a heavy load that it can't be handled by a relatively small number of people? I can't answer that, it's an open question. If it isn't a very heavy load "end-user frustration" can be avoided by a one-stop-shopping low overhead setup as I proposed. If it is a heavy load then what I proposed is inadequate. :-) -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 01:10:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E5037B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B64A43FE0 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:10:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:10:18 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625071704.GB1478@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="3siQDZowHQqNOShm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625071704.GB1478@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:10:23 -0000 --3siQDZowHQqNOShm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Ken Smith wrote on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 03:17:05AM -0400: [..] > The proposal's suggestion for that was to "internalize" it inside of > dnsadm@ and they decide strictly based on the *DNS* mechanics of > things. Are the DNS servers overloaded? Are there so many requests > for that it would be convenient to have another set of hands > doing the edits for that? Would we like to have another DNS server > in but perhaps it is sufficient to make it a pure slave > server and still keep master info on the main master site > (thus nameservice queries in may flow better but updates > still happen centrally). Creation of the country code based subdomains > happen automatically and with no "special" authorization as a side-effect > of the Mirror Coordinator (or whatever, that's the question Jun raised) > saying there is a new mirror site in that country. Hmmm... good question. It would certainly simplify some things in some areas and I guess the load to administer the primary may be not that high (though probably it's hard to guess). The bigger problem could be, that it is done by delegation right now. > I think this is one of those things that need to be evaluated on > a cost/benefit basis. What is the benefit to allowing this sort > of delegation to begin with? I'm not completely sure what the answer > is to that - I'm sure I only have a partial picture of it. I have > seen the cost though - it seems to confuse a lot of people and they're > not sure where to ask for stuff. > The current layout seems to be that a "Region" as much as possible is > left to decide issues like how many FTP mirror sites to have, etc. on > their own. That's a really good thing as long as the Regions are well > defined, those Regions have a strong leadership within themselves, etc. I think the "region" _is_ well defined. The region a server is in, is the ccTLD assigned to the country, the server is located in. Fullstop. (This definition is probably what we want, it makes no assumption about the TLD (cc or not) the official hostname of the server contains. Thus for example, making ftp.leo.org a server in the "de" region, regardless of the .org TLD). The well definition of a region is important, since the region is used by users to select a mirror, that is "close" to the client system. IIRC this works reasonably well. Strong leadership is a different issue... > But I'm not sure it's working. Working with an example at hand, we > have a site in Croatia that has been given access to ftp-master and > is ready to join in as ftp.il.freebsd.org. But il.freebsd.org doesn't > exist. It needs to be handled centrally but who is that? The folks Hmm strange, I thought Croatia has '.hr' and '.il' is Israel? Is it really the case, that the croatian server wants to join=20 the "il" region? This seems to be a very strange edge case... Assuming .hr is the croatian ccTLD and the croatian server wants to be in the hr.freebsd.org domain, but it does not exist, yet, I would assume the mirror admin, who actually happens to be the first to establish an official mirror in croatia could get approval from the Mirror-Coordinator, which can act as enough authorization for dnsadm@ to delegate the domain to him/her. Provided he/she can administer the zone. If the subdomain does not exist, but the mirror admin in Croatia can not administer the zone, I would say, it's bad luck. > doing us.freebsd.org by default? Someone needs to realize that they > are the coordinator for anything that doesn't have its own strong > Regional leadership. Things fall through cracks. And, as the delegation IMHO a good solution, to have such a fallback. > changes, all of that becomes a moving target for the people who are > trying to administer the WWW sites for example (now suddenly a new > Region popped up so person X doesn't need to worry about requests > from that region any more, it's person Y). And as you say, what happens Such changes will not happen very frequent, I guess. > if there is a LOT of interest in Croatia for FTP mirror service and > they want to administer that locally but they have zero interest in > CVSup? Then, there will be no cvsup.hr.freebsd.org. If there is actually a cvsup mirror in Croatia but maintained by other people, those who have taken responsibilty for their zone, will have to add an entry for this server, if it is requested. If no one has it, it goes to the fallback maintainers, as before. I don't see the issue here. hostmaster@hr.freebsd.org is a different role than admin at ftp.hr.freebsd.org. It can be assumed by the same people, but the matters need to be handled differently. For certain it would not be acceptable to delegate the hr.freebsd.org subdomain to people, who are not willing to make "cvsup" entries into the zone, just because they run an ftp server and are not interested in cvsup. > All of this is something you need to live with in a truly large > organization. But is the DNS administration such a heavy load that > it can't be handled by a relatively small number of people? I can't > answer that, it's an open question. If it isn't a very heavy load > "end-user frustration" can be avoided by a one-stop-shopping low overhead > setup as I proposed. If it is a heavy load then what I proposed is > inadequate. :-) Don't forget the obstacles you have to cope with, if you want to change the running system. I can imagine people feel stepped on their toes, if you want to take away the responsibility they currenty have. Of course this should not be an issue, if there are good reasons to change, but it should be considered. Best regards, Daniel --=20 IRCnet: Mr-Spock - "Do you love yourself ?" - "Yes!" (Isar 12) - =20 Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ --3siQDZowHQqNOShm Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIXgAYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIXcTCCF20CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC FUAwggbMMIIFtKADAgECAgIVezANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAP BgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVu Y2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJH LUJlbnV0emVyLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDMwNTIwMTIz MTQyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBqzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVu MSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZ RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEUMBIGA1UEAxMLRGFuaWVsIExhbmcxJDAiBgkq hkiG9w0BCQEWFWRhbmllbC5sYW5nQGluLnR1bS5kZTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAw gYkCgYEAk55VXazdhYUuEJAHmO439gJwKVfvcdF64VyP8tzhYwiIx/9FOsQj8r8Gw2g0MDCa X2mCNiSKz32sUI33SQFhBhwxoF6bpq7d6pfeJ7UL+2T/bkRVF/Y7zPuMMK/wMbiEwyfvdjxk 8XsVtpj500LjW7QYdAHlijHRAY2nFk4f8bcCAwEAAaOCA38wggN7MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAw HQYDVR0OBBYEFPMLcu3eegcL6m8ObwlveYDdoYOpMIHKBgNVHSMEgcIwgb+AFK81Ou8wbY/H n0tx1dgCig9IKGPUoYGjpIGgMIGdMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTERMA8GA1UEBxMITXVlbmNoZW4x KTAnBgNVBAoTIFRlY2huaXNjaGUgVW5pdmVyc2l0YWV0IE11ZW5jaGVuMSIwIAYDVQQLExlG YWt1bHRhZXQgZnVlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlrMQ8wDQYDVQQDEwZSQkctQ0ExGzAZBgkqhkiG9w0B CQEWDGNhQGluLnR1bS5kZYIBAjAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUH AwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMIGxBgNVHREEgakwgaaBD2xhbmdkQGluLnR1bS5kZYEVZGFuaWVsLmxh bmdAaW4udHVtLmRlgR9sYW5nZEBpbmZvcm1hdGlrLnR1LW11ZW5jaGVuLmRlgSVkYW5pZWwu bGFuZ0BpbmZvcm1hdGlrLnR1LW11ZW5jaGVuLmRlgRBsYW5nZEBjcy50dW0uZWR1gRZkYW5p ZWwubGFuZ0Bjcy50dW0uZWR1gQpkbEBsZW8ub3JnMAkGA1UdEgQCMAAwOAYDVR0fBDEwLzAt oCugKYYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jcmxzL3VzZXJjYV9jcmwuY3JsMBEGCWCGSAGG +EIBAQQEAwIFoDCBnwYJYIZIAYb4QgENBIGRFoGORGllc2VzIFplcnRpZmlrYXQgd3VyZGUg YXVzZ2VzdGVsbHQgZnVlciBEYW5pZWwgTGFuZyB2b24gZGVyIFJCRy1CZW51dHplci1DQSwg RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpayBkZXIgVGVjaG5pc2NoZW4gVW5pdmVyc2l0YWV0 IE11ZW5jaGVuLjA2BglghkgBhvhCAQMEKRYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jZ2ktYmlu L3VzZXJjYS1yZXY/MDIGCWCGSAGG+EIBBAQlFiNodHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NnaS1i aW4vY2EtcmV2PzA2BglghkgBhvhCAQgEKRYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9wb2xpY2ll cy9yYmdjYS5odG1sMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQAGrfB5rH9D6jl6Tx+hwXpv0a/TuV39 vIQWMCA1hi0V4pI+bMyGTW1k/Ve5C58wRZv7CSTnxTGoqZmqnV37GGQlZBmvsDE+u3FKL/T7 Tk/rlVajExCXGHwjgHp2FfCaVMawKSUrI60aDcUgLUtT2DKpEfKfr/MC7CDtCaYy6TW93cHc uv2oM+1PN+CIcR5PaqEySmeYoXBMXd6sktjyNUWLxsNhtFMVnOiwF3SZYbRbRobuEWM3o+W7 nijECUIKz8rvK3f/c8v9HlVitMbeaTs4J1nZUR9lsvGLik6vsfIgbmuP6MMkrKFYwq5XTR1x JtMcmvnqcWytpYFDVPGuGaj1MIIHKDCCBRCgAwIBAgIBATANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBnTEL MAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVu aXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRp azEPMA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDIx MDA5MTY0MTAzWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBpDELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11 ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAG A1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUkJHLVNlcnZlci1D QTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FAaW4udHVtLmRlMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8A MIIBCgKCAQEAzAHBIFy4tKTvbMMg037hc9t2jR5MVpEUIPvrSWC4xpbr6Hw7abQW/lRfFpV8 enf9tSgfcl8kvGjAAD8AYeuDash6TQSUjBdZCe7V297oZ0dsuurZBkM5BwvLWF8vMiY+SD/+ XTqhnU6B/E9C+R5VXjXsXV2u9hDtKVC5hqVgnxRM5rT/LsUhcchgAXk2WuI8r9Llb+voPWwM FmHk2jxUwhvxZfGo15HDrvJUgzYsL36SmeYMI9Eo70uGmAQRPVVq2zn/3AC4z8X1cBd3ItnH YPbx0iUH5kEGq2KH5iCndwNq9oaFhKj+Y34wEv5BYl6sb5C9EBvtGyebNwuvmtC3tQIDAQAB o4ICaDCCAmQwDwYDVR0TAQH/BAUwAwEB/zAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUH9QPe0VQVF1D2v8Su/itK/4O QMwwgcoGA1UdIwSBwjCBv4AU2WV+TUF/hD+1KtZ7E519yuW0XRqhgaOkgaAwgZ0xCzAJBgNV BAYTAkRFMREwDwYDVQQHEwhNdWVuY2hlbjEpMCcGA1UEChMgVGVjaG5pc2NoZSBVbml2ZXJz aXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4xIjAgBgNVBAsTGUZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIEluZm9ybWF0aWsxDzAN BgNVBAMTBlJCRy1DQTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FAaW4udHVtLmRlggEAMA4GA1UdDwEB /wQEAwIBBjATBgNVHSUEDDAKBggrBgEFBQcDATA0BgNVHR8ELTArMCmgJ6AlhiNodHRwOi8v Y2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NybHMvY2FfY3JsLmNybDARBglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCAgQwgYQGCWCG SAGG+EIBDQR3FnVaZXJ0aWZpa2F0IGZ1ZXIgUkJHLVNlcnZlci1DQSBhdXNnZXN0ZWxsdCB2 b24gUkJHLUNBLCBGYWt1bHRhZXQgZnVlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlrIGRlciBUZWNobmlzY2hlbiBV bml2ZXJzaXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4wMgYJYIZIAYb4QgEEBCUWI2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5pbi50dW0u ZGUvY2dpLWJpbi9jYS1yZXY/MDwGCWCGSAGG+EIBCAQvFi1odHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRl L3BvbGljaWVzL3NlcnZlcmNhcG9sLmh0bWwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAMzKnULQb6Kd hPNmKKmPSJJUOtbHxGH7Qi8paskt7dzDja/X7wz3524LGN2f05c1uAfyAP9Ar0nFthWy0qeM ueOtrOcSCj8AYwYN5H4drMC8GglQwlkD0M/nhPJ5xtAj8JzNYHzG1DK5tVgoJnF+t4KmTpI6 QJ6Dh3XDoZXubWd0jkHxQIzOKhs9PPjEzydmerC7B3Zt8vh7457Sk6wwZFhXc+nkeIIplnlD sBioOSyF7hZOwx4I2Auxss1zsyUQHCX88sOuZC0kYB7yRd1TMRti8josznux8k13sZBezFMP S2yCuKRBEk5Nt57OyGbIF4O7Mhn01mTnol2BDpTKJek45bIpRvSLl/xRPpjnzxLO1rXtXgCs GtkmXj+Zwo5fnL6OvZIiFgMV4ASsFclZexceHxDjpia1IHSFB/4I5fAys8Bw03idI+rfsla1 mW0AJuw260QgoBz+b+LKGosJdNosMfOJmNl0vW3Kq6NfYpZLkG0YJF9Xo6vsATFk9kNq56ye ila80uE2wDO/BGAcBMWQ4uwfrWqVPoW5X/oHcPISApnCBeZ+LyWvnTkgxCUeyqyxNOvaA/j7 jUoBb9l+GWup8EGND16mR/wYWAxYLgis1pn5QmSTbbKSWKcqDo6HBo1Zx9XRf76CZc7RJRp9 EXqYrkmlL9eg7qcnnS1rJbqxMIIHQDCCBSigAwIBAgIBAjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBnTEL MAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVu aXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRp azEPMA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDIx MDA5MTcwMzUyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11 ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAG A1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJHLUJlbnV0emVy LUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IB DwAwggEKAoIBAQCtYQ5ycRY6fyrlvJgpeQCNhPxQduU59Kpv6xWId9sHL8NyI7nlmlWzMroD ddIqeg7QvvtPS+xorbQJ9rxh94lXZtwlGPYg4LC/1PHGnDt+8RGiq8GLbHyeJZoQnEGSovyn uR4wZ9qnApFRsXcUZ5W/CSSwjKnQeN39oFj8EC4xtmUuudV65sxGuGToRVoSnjeULJKYBNnC RxVx2MU5exKGQAuvgaVd7Ozb7ziZyWxhVCNrUQOGrSKDgyKLguWTNnD7sSOiOpie3IX8H2DV DvbcKcmMQr8ojwWutNDPadOth+J6qd/modqxB1VbH8wu0lezbhPM5dh7yUFCEqZoXXh9AgMB AAGjggJ+MIICejAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MB0GA1UdDgQWBBSvNTrvMG2Px59LcdXYAooP SChj1DCBygYDVR0jBIHCMIG/gBTZZX5NQX+EP7Uq1nsTnX3K5bRdGqGBo6SBoDCBnTELMAkG A1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZl cnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEP MA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGWCAQAwDgYDVR0P AQH/BAQDAgEGMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggrBgEFBQcDBDA0BgNVHR8ELTArMCmg J6AlhiNodHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NybHMvY2FfY3JsLmNybDAJBgNVHRIEAjAAMBEG CWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIBBjCBhwYJYIZIAYb4QgENBHoWeFplcnRpZmlrYXQgZnVlciBSQkct QmVudXR6ZXItQ0EsIGF1c2dlc3RlbGx0IHZvbiBSQkctQ0EsIEZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIElu Zm9ybWF0aWsgZGVyIFRlY2huaXNjaGVuIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjAyBglghkgB hvhCAQQEJRYjaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jZ2ktYmluL2NhLXJldj8wOgYJYIZIAYb4 QgEIBC0WK2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5pbi50dW0uZGUvcG9saWNpZXMvdXNlcmNhcG9sLmh0bWwwDQYJ KoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAJapnE3b+p2nrryUkfTEl5iKTl7o8hLrB4FbLZsdBs16pIb0fIIq yGR0wlv0Qq5OLHm1hQzGkfhqEb2O+oBQJgaykxAB+6rKKOJdL12LSQrYXbDV8t/isyurwkFi fmcWDxVF4reDcz8F61KrVz46k2KtdY39CcuW+x1xQZRgier+jdBLLsbkM21XkufUrwnnO5Vr j0cD48XmcsVuWF0EkGo49jPHk8LG2cMyhQR/ZT4f1kegi9WmoV4NjKJnEU2QaTfbLUb2i509 RYf31oDnhq6oO1wCcRvVeDfyx5aj0y68sL1ySNmTQEELOmOFPqmVqa9BAR4wzuTXJi9UvOwF tQMsKq9AX4cFegDl4D4E5QQ7JladBMvJ0VALdGSGlGHARQGvO8SvapsOTVPC5n+UD6jwhTw0 pCPSypzIIrpT9vjxD7bDvudOfKguVRuX8poWID7yXcB0ApHdoNIMrGJx1Tc6SN6rGKWYre+W y/AsqMNNmR+YrJn/UOs6lKX9TtaHOFbxNPwo7RgdRg/srESEtIQ5IKkPA0Vt9Eh5H3VWBhrU b1gmvyNTwJFRqYmFhr7jFFdgnX3Jsbw81jl1z4jLdeeslLxs8vmnwQvWRz3BEPo+g0mrIuYt QjSdgGF8xHgyeRxfa8o3P/rncBysyNYe/AdWd6UGPmompEBZuFzSN+G8MYICCDCCAgQCAQEw ga0wgaYxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMREwDwYDVQQHEwhNdWVuY2hlbjEpMCcGA1UEChMgVGVjaG5p c2NoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4xIjAgBgNVBAsTGUZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIElu Zm9ybWF0aWsxGDAWBgNVBAMTD1JCRy1CZW51dHplci1DQTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FA aW4udHVtLmRlAgIVezAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIGxMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEw HAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTAzMDYyNTA4MTAxOFowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFGw3Wudpl1cn Ms6zkorPgKml0WHoMFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUABIGAMyT7z436iEsaOoVNETquCq8Y13vXPouccvfPAvx86otcBMS978GwpStet+6y1HXy qfk6iK6Em6hzt/as3HnPqRVTzMOTUnjM/+FSzwzsa4+K/1zLhiQ1A2AzWaiVwU3j1zmugUXB kEXuQQq2zIpaI+cd1eQnYQSen4L4N6yz22E= --3siQDZowHQqNOShm-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 07:09:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4CAD37B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C802443FB1 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:09:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5PE9Xbr008826; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5PE9Voe008825; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:09:31 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Daniel Lang Message-ID: <20030625140931.GA8427@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625071704.GB1478@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:09:36 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:10:18AM +0200, Daniel Lang wrote: > Strong leadership is a different issue... And potentially changing over time. Strong leadership may come and go. > Hmm strange, I thought Croatia has '.hr' and '.il' is Israel? > Is it really the case, that the croatian server wants to join > the "il" region? This seems to be a very strange edge case... Lets just say it shouldn't be me assigning country codes - I don't know them very well. Yes, it is most likely .hr. > If the subdomain does > not exist, but the mirror admin in Croatia can not administer > the zone, I would say, it's bad luck. This is one of the questions that needs to be answered. How many would this hurt versus how many would it help? My guess was it hurts more than it helps. > Don't forget the obstacles you have to cope with, if you want to > change the running system. I can imagine people feel stepped on > their toes, if you want to take away the responsibility they > currenty have. Of course this should not be an issue, if there > are good reasons to change, but it should be considered. If the delegations currently in place are not hurting they would not need to be broken down. But moving forward from here the "new" focus on function (WWW/cvsup/ftp) being the primary organization and the DNS layout not as focused on country codes is what decisions get made by. Under this scheme all requests for updates go to dmsadm@ no matter what thing(s) it is they are requesting. If delegation is in place for it then the dnsadm@ folks handle bumping it to the right person(s) (or if the mail volume on dnsadm@ isn't really all that high everyone involved in any DNS changes can get the messages and would know which piece they are handling). -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 07:28:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 407D737B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amun.isnic.is (amun.isnic.is [193.4.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FE343FBD for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:28:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: from amun.isnic.is (oli@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/isnic) with ESMTP id h5PESmWx067234; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:28:48 GMT (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: (from oli@localhost) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5PESmGw067233; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:28:48 GMT (envelope-from oli) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:28:48 +0000 From: Olafur Osvaldsson To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030625142848.GM39194@isnic.is> Mail-Followup-To: Ken Smith , Daniel Lang , freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625071704.GB1478@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625140931.GA8427@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625140931.GA8427@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=6.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55-isnic X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55-isnic (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:28:59 -0000 Ken, On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Ken Smith wrote: > > If the subdomain does > > not exist, but the mirror admin in Croatia can not administer > > the zone, I would say, it's bad luck. > > This is one of the questions that needs to be answered. How many would > this hurt versus how many would it help? My guess was it hurts more > than it helps. Here other CC mirror admins can step in, I wouldn't mind hosting the DNS for other countries alongside is.freebsd.org if there is noone capable of it in that country. > > Don't forget the obstacles you have to cope with, if you want to > > change the running system. I can imagine people feel stepped on > > their toes, if you want to take away the responsibility they > > currenty have. Of course this should not be an issue, if there > > are good reasons to change, but it should be considered. > > If the delegations currently in place are not hurting they would > not need to be broken down. But moving forward from here the "new" > focus on function (WWW/cvsup/ftp) being the primary organization > and the DNS layout not as focused on country codes is what decisions > get made by. > > Under this scheme all requests for updates go to dmsadm@ no matter > what thing(s) it is they are requesting. If delegation is in place > for it then the dnsadm@ folks handle bumping it to the right person(s) > (or if the mail volume on dnsadm@ isn't really all that high everyone > involved in any DNS changes can get the messages and would know which > piece they are handling). Are you suggesting moving all the CC zones into the FreeBSD.org zone? I hope not as I beleive the load on dnsadm@ would be much higher if that path is chosen. I think it would be much better if all countries would be delegated (us.* to) and the ftp[1-9]?.* and cvsup[1-9]?.* servers would be chosen from what are the best of the country servers. Then dnsadm would only have to deal with country delegations and changes to the status of the primary server names (ftp[1-9].* and similar). Then it can authenticated by the means of PGP to dnsadm and each country could do the same or impliment their own security model. /Oli -- Olafur Osvaldsson Systems Administrator Internet a Islandi hf. Tel: +354 525-5291 Email: oli@isnic.is From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 08:13:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D9737B404 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5896D43FD7 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:13:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B207E3D29; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:13:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Ken Smith Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:13:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3EF983CC.11367.3F0939E6@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030625140931.GA8427@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:13:18 -0000 On 25 Jun 2003 at 10:09, Ken Smith wrote: > If the delegations currently in place are not hurting they would > not need to be broken down. But moving forward from here the "new" > focus on function (WWW/cvsup/ftp) being the primary organization > and the DNS layout not as focused on country codes is what decisions > get made by. > > Under this scheme all requests for updates go to dmsadm@ no matter > what thing(s) it is they are requesting. If delegation is in place > for it then the dnsadm@ folks handle bumping it to the right person(s) > (or if the mail volume on dnsadm@ isn't really all that high everyone > involved in any DNS changes can get the messages and would know which > piece they are handling). I may have a working example which will help. nz.freebsd.org is delgated to me. I look after DNS for everything under that subdomain. I've been doing this for the about 4 or 5 years I think. The only time I have to contact dsnadm@ is if I need to change the IP address on my DNS server. Apart from that, I do everything else. Granted, we have only one of www, cvsup, and [sometimes] ftp, but it is an example. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 08:24:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00F137B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C9543FCB for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5PFOibr010927; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5PFOiD3010926; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:24:43 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Ken Smith , Daniel Lang , freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030625152443.GA9860@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625071704.GB1478@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625140931.GA8427@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625142848.GM39194@isnic.is> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625142848.GM39194@isnic.is> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:24:46 -0000 [ Global comment that applies to all my email about this stuff... I'm not necessarily *arguing* or saying I'm right and you're wrong or that I am even necessarily an authoritative source. I'm just offering what I think the counter-point (alternative?) point of view is so decisions can be made based on what all the alternatives are. ] On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 02:28:48PM +0000, Olafur Osvaldsson wrote: > Here other CC mirror admins can step in, I wouldn't mind hosting the DNS > for other countries alongside is.freebsd.org if there is noone capable > of it in that country. This is what winds up leading to the confusion on the part of the end-users. For example a new mirror site wants to come online. They say so here on hubs@. 1) Who decides if we need another mirror in their region? 2) Who decides which ftp-master.*.freebsd.org site they feed from? 3) Who grants them that access? 4) Once all of those are done how do they now become ftpXX..freebsd.org? It would be nice if one person could guide them the entire way through that. But in a scheme where everything is distributed at the country code level now you are either requiring the DNS admins to be doing those functions listed above for all three services (www,cvsup,ftp) or there is someone else(s) handling (1) through (3). Your suggesion makes the interactions amongst all those different parties a non-deterministic and potentially moving target. Worse, someone notices ftp345.foo.freebsd.org stopped carrying FreeBSD. Who do they complain to? The DNS folks? The DNS folks could then complain to the *site* which might or might not result in a reply. Assuming they really aren't interested in carrying FreeBSD any more how do the DNS folks respond to that? Remove ftp345 without telling anyone else? Probably not good - maybe the regional coordinator could have had a replacement. Is there a regional coordinator for ftp? If you are hosting multiple country codes do you know all of the regional coordinators? Sorry, I know this is an unpopular suggestion but again if we're back to there being one person or a small group of people who are coordinating (not *managing*, *coordinating*) the mirror system this scenario is simple, if ftp345.foo.freebsd.org disappears report it to the coordinator and it's up to them to advise what to do. This person would know if it's best to remove the name, shift it to a different existing site temporarily, replace it with someone else who recently offered to become a site, or bump the problem to the person they know (because they're intimately working with the mirror system...) is the person who is overseeing that region (and here region could mean anything - "all of Europe" for example). > Are you suggesting moving all the CC zones into the FreeBSD.org zone? > I hope not as I beleive the load on dnsadm@ would be much higher if that > path is chosen. That's the suggestion but I can't seem to get an answer from anyone about how high a load that really is. I have spent some time *guessing* what sorts of valid transactions need to happen to DNS and my probably way off target estimate is that this really isn't a large amount of work. Much of it comes from the message that started this whole thing. Jun said dnsadm@ doesn't need help with the work load - just forming rules. I can post the list of transactions I thought of on my own for discussion if that will help. I was sort of hoping Jun would provide it instead because his list would be much less guesswork than mine. He hadn't provided any guideance in his initial messages saying this needed to be worked out so I took that to mean he didn't have the time to participate much and I went ahead with doing the entire guess-at-problem-analyze-results-propose- solution thing all at once. Definitely way too arrogant on my part but I still have no clue how things are supposed to work around here and I'm learning by making this sort of mistake and being corrected... :-) -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 08:44:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B29537B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AAC43FEC for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:44:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5PFiCbr011432; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5PFiCnG011431; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:44:12 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Dan Langille Message-ID: <20030625154412.GB9860@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <3EF983CC.11367.3F0939E6@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF983CC.11367.3F0939E6@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:44:15 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:13:16AM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > I may have a working example which will help. > > nz.freebsd.org is delgated to me. I look after DNS for everything > under that subdomain. I've been doing this for the about 4 or 5 > years I think. The only time I have to contact dsnadm@ is if I need > to change the IP address on my DNS server. Apart from that, I do > everything else. Granted, we have only one of www, cvsup, and > [sometimes] ftp, but it is an example. Perfect. Now, suppose a small University in your country comes online with an FTP server, they become ftp2.nz.freebsd.org. Their University Administration is content with them providing this sort of service but the University would not be willing to provide full-blown DNS service even if you asked them to. And now, heaven forbid (sorry but you volunteered to be an example), your company goes out of business. If we're strict about the country code thing this becomes a big ugly mess. Some other country's DNS folks might be able to step in and take over but how does the "organization" even begin to ask around for a replacement? How are the folks at the University informed? How does the next site at a different University, again willing to provide FTP mirror service but not DNS, figure out who to talk to? Under the proposal nz.freebsd.org simply gets sucked back in to the central administration and life goes on with zero other stuff needing to happen. The University had already been told that their primary contact was the Mirror Site Coordinator. So, is the benefit of having things being managed on a country code level worth all of the (I admit completely - *potential*) messes these sorts of scenarios can cause? Jun had asked for a concrete DNS Admin Guide, factoring in all of the uncertainties these sorts of situations could cause (there are lots more similarish scenarios I was able to dream up :-) along with other factors (e.g. above situation of a University being willing to provide ftp but not DNS, and them being inside of a country currently not delegated) my guess was the administrative overhead of that much delegation cost way too much as compared to the benefits it could provide. But it was a huge guess. I could post the whole train of thought that lead to the Draft but you guys complain about how long the Draft was... :-) Alternatively I could post things in smaller chunks, leading slowly from one thing to another and opening it up to discussion that way. Or I can just shut up and let someone else do this stuff... What would be best? -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 10:12:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC5537B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genius.tao.org.uk (genius.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C363A43FF3 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:12:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@genius.tao.org.uk) Received: by genius.tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id A277142C3; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:11:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:11:59 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030625171159.GC59760@genius.tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Ken Smith , Daniel Lang , freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625071704.GB1478@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625140931.GA8427@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625142848.GM39194@isnic.is> <20030625152443.GA9860@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="R+My9LyyhiUvIEro" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625152443.GA9860@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:12:08 -0000 --R+My9LyyhiUvIEro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:24:43AM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: >=20 > Worse, someone notices ftp345.foo.freebsd.org stopped carrying FreeBSD. > Who do they complain to? The DNS folks? The DNS folks could then compla= in > to the *site* which might or might not result in a reply. Assuming they > really aren't interested in carrying FreeBSD any more how do the DNS > folks respond to that? Remove ftp345 without telling anyone else? > Probably not good - maybe the regional coordinator could have had a > replacement. Is there a regional coordinator for ftp? If you are hosting > multiple country codes do you know all of the regional coordinators? >=20 Ok, here's another thought then. I've been running the uk.FreeBSD.org name space for many years. We've currently got a handful of web, cvsup and ftp mirrors. We also have a number of other entries in the DNS to handle local servers (storm.uk.freebsd.org) and local email user@uk.freebsd.org as well as a subdomain that the UK FreeBSD user group use. If uk.FreeBSD.org gets sucked back into a central administration am I going to get the same level of support for changes to the name space as we do at the moment, or will we be forced to drop our "extra" stuff because we're the only ones that do it? Joe --=20 Josef Karthauser (joe@tao.org.uk) http://www.josef-k.net/ FreeBSD (cvs meister, admin and hacker) http://www.uk.FreeBSD.org/ Physics Particle Theory (student) http://www.pact.cpes.sussex.ac.uk/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D An eclectic mix of fact an= d theory. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --R+My9LyyhiUvIEro Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAj75198ACgkQXVIcjOaxUBbDyACbBpCeg+v3vsEySiVyqfydmkZe zpgAoKJGzSzKexDfBTa2Hx0nTmdEmCHE =KC4v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --R+My9LyyhiUvIEro-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 10:39:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904C137B401; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDAF743F3F; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254913D29; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:39:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Josef Karthauser Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:39:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030625171159.GC59760@genius.tao.org.uk> References: <20030625152443.GA9860@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:39:12 -0000 On 25 Jun 2003 at 18:11, Josef Karthauser wrote: > If uk.FreeBSD.org gets sucked back into a central administration > am I going to get the same level of support for changes to the name > space as we do at the moment, or will we be forced to drop our "extra" > stuff because we're the only ones that do it? You are not the only ones. We have http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ and the nzfug mailing list which goes with it. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 13:10:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F56837B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3873743F85 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:10:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5PKAbbr018361 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5PKAbGJ018360 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:10:37 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030625201037.GA18147@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030625011941.GB26111@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625061059.GB3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625071704.GB1478@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625081018.GC3446@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030625140931.GA8427@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625142848.GM39194@isnic.is> <20030625152443.GA9860@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625171159.GC59760@genius.tao.org.uk> <20030625173507.GB12736@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625173507.GB12736@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:10:39 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 06:11:59PM +0100, Josef Karthauser wrote: > Ok, here's another thought then. I've been running the uk.FreeBSD.org > name space for many years. We've currently got a handful of web, cvsup > and ftp mirrors. We also have a number of other entries in the DNS to > handle local servers (storm.uk.freebsd.org) and local email > user@uk.freebsd.org as well as a subdomain that the UK FreeBSD user > group use. If uk.FreeBSD.org gets sucked back into a central administration > am I going to get the same level of support for changes to the name > space as we do at the moment, or will we be forced to drop our "extra" > stuff because we're the only ones that do it? IMO this would be one of the things that would prompt dnsadm@ to do a delegation, and it's what I meant by making these decisions on the merits of DNS issues instead of other issues. In this scenario either: - you be one of the recipients of all mail sent to dnsadm@ and you act on anything coming in for uk.freebsd.org. The list of people allowed to make valid requests is very short (the www, cvsup, and ftp coordinators) so you have relatively little checking to do. - the folks who do receive dnsadm@ email know you're handling uk.freebsd.org and bump any requests for that to you Which of those is best depends on things like volume of email to dnsadm@ and that sort of thing, sorry I don't know if that's an issue or not. Your request to take over the delegation would be exactly analogous to a site making the request to become a mirror site to the mirror site coordinator, though in this case it is dnsadm@ who are viewed as the coordinator. They decide if you seem to know what you are doing, if you seem to have the necessary infrastructure, and they set up what they view to be the proper set of procedures for the communication amongst you all. If you do not live up to your responsibilities they revoke the delegation (sorry, I'm not suggesting you would). The "extras" you provide are not FreeBSD.org-wide by definition so the fact there is no central flow for those things is a non-issue and the folks who expect the extras are by definition beholden to you for them. You are a case where there is a strong regional organization and I don't think there is a need for you to suffer but at the same time I don't think places that do not have a strong regional organization should be ignored. And, again sorry but you offered to be an example, if you were to disappear uk.freebsd.org simply gets sucked back into the central nameservers with zero other issues needing to be addressed. They'd even presumably have a file resulting from a zone transfer that could become the master file if for some reason your disappearance was so sudden there was no warning at all. Since you don't exist any more the extras you were providing also disappear but that's to be expected. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 16:08:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2487637B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D9D43F75 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5PN8qbr022333 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5PN8qaN022332 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:08:52 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030625230852.GA21537@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030625152443.GA9860@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:08:54 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 01:39:09PM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > You are not the only ones. We have http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ > and the nzfug mailing list which goes with it. Ok, I understand the previous question a bit better as far as deciding on terms for delegation, sub-delegation, etc. This helped me see a bit more than I had been. Assuming the load on dnsadm@ isn't too great I think this sort of thing can fall under what I described in the last one. The folks that want nzfug.nz.freebsd.org send the request to dnsadm@, who function as the coordinator for DNS analogous to there being a coordinator for FTP mirrors. They delegated nz.freebsd.org to you a while ago so they talk to you. In the end if nzfug does come into being the dnsadm@ coordinator records all the info about them (site contact, etc) at that level. Now if you were to disappear dnsadm@ can still contact nzfug to see if they can pick up the pieces. I mentioned these coordinators I keep talking about are not *managers*. Minimally I thought they would be glorified Administrative Assistants. Using hubs@ as the example this would be the person who typically answers about requests for becoming new mirrors, would probably be the one who decides enough mirrors are there, etc. This would also be the person who knows how to get the procedure done, and guides the new site through the procedure. Suppose the person functioning in this role was named Chris. Chris negotiates with the person who offered, generally feeling them out and making sure they're suitable (not some teenager who thinks his new broadband connection is cool for example) and collects the information about the site (contact, location, and other stuff we feel we should keep track of). Chris decides we can use them, and then contacts Jun to ask they be granted access to the appropriate ftp-master machine(s) and makes. After that Chris contacts dnsadm@ to say "Please add ftp14.us.freebsd.org" and Chris is the one responsible for keeping the site info. Now later if ftp14 stops functioning that fact is relayed to Chris (maybe the site operator is nice and tells Chris beforehand, maybe some irate end-user sends email to dnsadm@ and they route it to Chris because they know he's the Mirror Site Coordinator). Chris handles the fallout because he knows what to do (e.g. make ftp14 point to ftp5 temporarily, but contact some site he told "No" to last week to say a spot opened up and are they still interested, etc). Chris also knows to tell Jun about it so the ACL on ftp-master should be adjusted. There doesn't need to be a Chris, Jun could do it all. But I think someone(s) needs to function in that role. It could be one person, could be several people, whatever. But IMO it's time for that level of coordination. If the RE team has questions about the mirror system they ask Chris. If Jesper can't understand why we're still carrying all the broken-out source trees on the mirror sites Chris will try to find out who to ask about making it stop. If coordinating all of the mirror sites is too much work for Chris he can ask Cejka to pick up Europe and tell dnsadm@ that they should listen to Cejka in addition to Chris. If Murray wants stats collection done he asks Chris because re@ knows Chris is the Mirror Coordinator and they'd trust Chris will do the right thing by bumping the request to hubs@ (and now Murray doesn't need to "lurk" on hubs@ if he doesn't want to :-). Murray can't *expect* Chris to be able to do it because exactly how much Chris is capable of will depend on the dynamics of the group. *Minimally* Chris is, again, basically a glorified Administrative Assistant and is not a *manager* with "resources available to him" and all that other [insert your personal preference on whether the Corporate stuff is good or not - I'd call it Corporate Nonsense but opinions vary]. If the dynamics of the group are such that there are various people around willing to help, etc. maybe Chris can guide the task through to it happening. Maybe all Chris can do is float it on hubs@ and see what happens. Maybe Chris can take care of it himself, etc. But Chris would at least note Murray would like this done and look for opportunities to make it happen. Chris typically can't simply dictate that it will happen. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 16:21:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89F237B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E0543FBF for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:21:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7DF3D29; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:21:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Ken Smith Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:21:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030625230852.GA21537@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:21:55 -0000 On 25 Jun 2003 at 19:08, Ken Smith wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 01:39:09PM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > > > You are not the only ones. We have http://www.nzfug.nz.freebsd.org/ > > and the nzfug mailing list which goes with it. > > Ok, I understand the previous question a bit better as far as deciding > on terms for delegation, sub-delegation, etc. This helped me see a > bit more than I had been. > > Assuming the load on dnsadm@ isn't too great I think this sort of > thing can fall under what I described in the last one. The folks > that want nzfug.nz.freebsd.org send the request to dnsadm@, who > function as the coordinator for DNS analogous to there being a coordinator > for FTP mirrors. > They delegated nz.freebsd.org to you a while ago > so they talk to you. In the end if nzfug does come into being the > dnsadm@ coordinator records all the info about them (site contact, > etc) at that level. Now if you were to disappear dnsadm@ can still > contact nzfug to see if they can pick up the pieces. DNS is distributed. The actions should be distributed as well. Why should people contact dnsadm@ if they want to add hosts to nz.freebsd.org? Why minimize email traffic and have the the person in charge of nz.freebsd.org send site contact details to dnsadm@ for record keeping purposes. It put the work where it should be. In the region. That frees up the dnsadm@. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 16:34:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F5837B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E240043F75 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:34:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5PNYubr022793; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5PNYtmo022792; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:34:55 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Dan Langille Message-ID: <20030625233455.GA22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:34:58 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 07:21:52PM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > DNS is distributed. The actions should be distributed as well. Why > should people contact dnsadm@ if they want to add hosts to > nz.freebsd.org? If it's possible to communicate that in a way that it doesn't add to confusion I'm all for it but I can't figure out a way that is deterministic without *requiring* every country take on the responsibility for their zone. If that's what everyone else thinks is good I'll shut up about it. :-) I'm just trying to take the end-users' guesswork out of figuring out where to send the request. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 16:44:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0323737B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316B143FD7 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5PNiXbr022925 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5PNiX3w022924 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:44:33 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030625234433.GB22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> <20030625233455.GA22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625233455.GA22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:44:35 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 07:34:55PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 07:21:52PM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > > > DNS is distributed. The actions should be distributed as well. Why > > should people contact dnsadm@ if they want to add hosts to > > nz.freebsd.org? > > If it's possible to communicate that in a way that it doesn't add > to confusion I'm all for it but I can't figure out a way that is > deterministic without *requiring* every country take on the responsibility > for their zone. If that's what everyone else thinks is good I'll shut > up about it. :-) I'm just trying to take the end-users' guesswork out > of figuring out where to send the request. ... And apparently I didn't understand your previous example as well as I thought. I'm suggesting dnsadm@ do record keeping at the *zone* level. *Not* host level. As you say it's distributed, if you wanted to add in a new host for some special purpose dnsadm@ doesn't need to know a thing about it. If the Mirror Site Coordinator happens to remember nz.freebsd.org is delegated s/he doesn't *need* to contact dnsadm@ and they can go straight to you. But if they forget that nz.freebsd.org is delegated they can just send to dnsadm@ and it will find its way to you. But if you're adding in an entire new zone inside of nz.freebsd.org IMO it would be best if dnsadm@ be aware of it. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 17:29:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E4437B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E41E43FB1 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:29:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5Q0TNbr023696 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5Q0TNes023695 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:29:23 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030626002923.GA23194@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030624173337.GD11784@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7m7k7b564w.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:29:25 -0000 Since I seem to be in "Fully explain" mode... On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:54:07AM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > I like Kris's suggestion, but I don't think we need a bottle neck such > as coordinator as above. I'm not against that in principal, just the cost/benefit ratio. > The idea in my mind is to create "name vs email" table to identify > who is authoritative of this DNS name. Like: > > ftp-master.FreeBSD.org peter@FreeBSD.org > kuriyama@FreeBSD.org > cvsup-master.FreeBSD.org kuriyama@FreeBSD.org > ftp.FreeBSD.org foo@example.net > bar@example.com > ftp2.FreeBSD.org blah@example.org > > and, create a collection of PGP public keys of above contactee. > > If we can prepare this table, dnsadm@ can easily identify the signed > request is authorized or not. I had thought about Kris's message too. The problem I saw with it came up when I tried to think about what valid DNS related requests would originate at a site *after* it has been recognized and added to the above table. You probably know of others that I'm not aware of but the only three I could think of were: 1) "I needed to change my site's hostname/IP address, please update your info for that." 2) "I don't want to be a FreeBSD site any more." 3) Please change our site contact info from "fred@foo.bar" to "barney@foo.bar" because Fred quit and we hired Barney to replace him. That was all I could think of. Anything else would be originating from someone else. Again - I'm probably wrong about this out of ignorance but I need help with learning what other sorts of requests come from the sites themselves. My guess was that there are very few of (1). If (2) came along the help of the Mirror Site Coordinator would be desirable in deciding what to do about the problem. (3), at the dnsadm@ level, is only needed because we need to build and maintain this big table. My guess was the number of (3)'s would exceed the number of (1)'s, *and* the Mirror Site Coordinator should be aware of (3)'s as well. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 18:02:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5526D37B404 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amun.isnic.is (amun.isnic.is [193.4.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CABCB44030 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:02:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: from amun.isnic.is (oli@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/isnic) with ESMTP id h5Q12KWx072430; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:02:20 GMT (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: (from oli@localhost) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5Q12Jed072429; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:02:19 GMT (envelope-from oli) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:02:19 +0000 From: Olafur Osvaldsson To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030626010219.GE68238@isnic.is> Mail-Followup-To: Ken Smith , freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org References: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> <20030625233455.GA22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625234433.GB22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030625234433.GB22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=6.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55-isnic X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55-isnic (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:02:26 -0000 Ken, On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Ken Smith wrote: > ... And apparently I didn't understand your previous example as well > as I thought. I'm suggesting dnsadm@ do record keeping at the *zone* > level. *Not* host level. As you say it's distributed, if you wanted > to add in a new host for some special purpose dnsadm@ doesn't need to > know a thing about it. If the Mirror Site Coordinator happens to > remember nz.freebsd.org is delegated s/he doesn't *need* to contact > dnsadm@ and they can go straight to you. But if they forget that > nz.freebsd.org is delegated they can just send to dnsadm@ and it > will find its way to you. But if you're adding in an entire new > zone inside of nz.freebsd.org IMO it would be best if dnsadm@ be aware of it. I can't help thinking you are making a simple thing much to complex... The current status IMO works fine, those running the delegated CC zones are usually so dedicated that they would find a replacement if they would decide to stop hosting the zone, but there are allways bad apples, those you won't ever get rid of. As reads in: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/hubs/article.html ====================================================================== Ok, here is how to do it: Get the mirror running in first place (maybe not using a master site, yet). Subscribe to the FreeBSD mirror sites mailing lists. If everything works so far, contact the DNS admin, responsible for your region/country, and ask for a DNS entry for your site. The admin should able to be contacted via , which cc being your country code/TLD again. Your DNS entry will look like described in Section 3.1. If there is no subdomain delegated, yet, for your country, you probably need to contact , however, you can try the FreeBSD mirror sites mailing lists first. ====================================================================== There it tells ppl who to contact to add their mirror, be it ftp, cvups or www My understaning is that most of the problems have been while someone is trying to contact dnsadm@, wich should be much better if all CC zone admins would sign their requests. /Oli -- Olafur Osvaldsson Systems Administrator Internet a Islandi hf. Tel: +354 525-5291 Email: oli@isnic.is From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 18:38:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D19737B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE04E44013 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5Q1cObr025014 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5Q1cNsN025013 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:38:23 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030626013823.GA24444@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> <20030625233455.GA22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625234433.GB22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030626010219.GE68238@isnic.is> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030626010219.GE68238@isnic.is> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: DRAFT - DNS Admin Guide X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:38:26 -0000 On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 01:02:19AM +0000, Olafur Osvaldsson wrote: > I can't help thinking you are making a simple thing much to complex... It wouldn't be the first time. :-/ > ====================================================================== > > Get the mirror running in first place (maybe not using a master site, yet). > > Subscribe to the FreeBSD mirror sites mailing lists. > > If everything works so far, contact the DNS admin, responsible for your > region/country, and ask for a DNS entry for your site. The admin should > able to be contacted via , which cc being your > country code/TLD again. Your DNS entry will look like described in Section > 3.1. > > If there is no subdomain delegated, yet, for your country, you probably need > to contact , however, you can try the FreeBSD mirror > sites mailing lists first. > ====================================================================== > > There it tells ppl who to contact to add their mirror, be it ftp, cvups or www > > My understaning is that most of the problems have been while someone is trying > to contact dnsadm@, wich should be much better if all CC zone admins would sign > their requests. I don't quite follow how having cc zone admins sign requests helps at all but that is, again, probably out of ignorance on my part. I'm a new site, lets say in Canada. Following the above I send mail to hostmaster@ca.freebsd.org. They add me as ftp15.ca.freebsd.org, no email needed to be sent from the hostmaster@ca folks at all. The question I have is whether the hostmaster@ca folks should be the ones who make the decision to do the addition or if there is someone else they should contact (or if someone else - e.g. a "Mirror Coordinator" should be making the request that the site be added in the first place). At what stage do they request access to ftp-master? Do they automatically get it? Is having some form of a blessed connection (so they can have the releases at the point they're staged instead of needing to wait until the permissions get opened) a pre-condition to having an official DNS connection. If later when ftp15.ca is found to not be carrying FreeBSD any more and the hostmaster@ca folks remove it is Jun ever notified so he removes them from the ftp-master.ca ACL? If the answer to all that is "We don't care" I (or if you are totally sick of me by now someone else) can begin to piece that scenario together. To follow Jun's remark if it is me assembling it I can do it in smaller pieces if someone suggests which part to start with (just starting with the above quoted remark might work). -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 20:54:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E30737B401 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69544400D for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:54:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5Q3snbr027127 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5Q3smN0027126 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:54:48 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030626035448.GA26662@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: How this works... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:54:50 -0000 I'm not really comfortable about how this whole DNS discussion is going, but I don't know exactly what to do that would fix it and at the same time yield results. Comments (flames) are welcome about: - If the end result (guidelines for dnsadm@) is to be achieved someone needs to write it. I don't mind if that's me but at this point would you prefer it be someone else? - If it is me I could keep my mouth shut and just collect information to assemble but what "drives" the discussion that information gets collected from? - The draft proposal thing was too much to start off the discussion but what should start it off? Jun started it with "We need to come up with a concrete DNS procedure." but the result of that was silence. - Is some (or all) of what got said on the list more appropriately done privately (or not at all?)? - The people most clueful about the way things are currently and what needs to be fixed (if nothing needed to be fixed we'd have nothing that needed to be discussed) are the busiest and hardest to get information from. How does a clueless person go about getting the background info needed to even start (as I said I guessed, probably not the best approach...). Thanx... -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 04:11:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE6337B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259B143FFD for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:11:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:11:27 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030626111127.GB10018@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> <20030625233455.GA22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625234433.GB22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030626010219.GE68238@isnic.is> <20030626013823.GA24444@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="0ntfKIWw70PvrIHh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030626013823.GA24444@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: DNS Stuff Proposal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:11:30 -0000 --0ntfKIWw70PvrIHh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, lots of stuff to read, I may have overlooked the details, but anyway I want to suggest something. My suggestion will also be a lot to read (much more than I intended, but still I ask you, to take a look at it). Foreword: I agree with Oli, that the present system does not work so bad. I also agree with Ken, that there are things, that could be improved, notably in the cases, where no delegation exists, yet. Further, I guess everyone agrees, that the system should not be too complex. So here's my proposal: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In general things remain mostly, as they are and work well. Responsibilities and Delegation ------------------------------- 1. Case: Where delegation exists, the admins maintaining the the delegation are responsible for anything under their domain. All complaints and problems concerning services within this domain, should be handled withing this domain. By means that the maintainers of this domain decide. Example: uk.freebsd.org is delegated to some people, including Joe. They are responsible for any request that concerns UK. The contact address is . =20 This is conform with the present system as documented in the hubs article. 2. Case: No delegation exists, but is requested: a) The requesting admin of the new site is willing to take responsibility and have the zone delegated, assuming all required responsibilties. In this case, the request is passed to some Mirror/DNS coordinator, i.e. the person Ken called "Chris". "Chris" evaluates the request and the requesting party, granting or denying the request. The contact address for this request should be something obvious and easy. It could be ,=20 or if you want to avoid to hassle this team, put something up front: (beeing "Chris"). If granted, the new site gets the delegation, and becomes case 1. Example: Admins in Croatia offer a new site and are willing and able to take zone responsiblity. "Chris" approves and delegates the zone hr.freebsd.org once to the Croatian folks. The future contact for Croatia is . b) The requesting admin is NOT willing to take responsiblity OR, the delegation request was denied by "Chris". "Chris" then decides the following: i) the site is still worth adding, but delegation cannot be put into the hands of the requesting party. =3D> The delegation still takes place and the zone is created, BUT it is maintained by .=20 So, the zone is created and delegated, but to the people themselves. The contact address for this new zone will be=20 . This makes it transparent, if the zone can be transferred to some admins in that country, if they are available. Of course, the folks, would have to be willing to carry and maintain the zone. It avoids confusion, because the general rule, that as documented in the hubs article, does still apply. This is a fallback solution, and I don't expect too many cases like that. Example: Crotian admins want to have an official ftp mirror,=20 but are not willing or not able to assume responsibilty for the zone, but "Chris" thinks it's still worth. The zone hr.freebsd.org is created but maintained by the dnsadm-team, still the contact address will be , which will reach some member(s) from the team. They will add an entry for the requested server. =20 ii) "Chris" decides, it's not worth the trouble, and the request is finally rejected. (No example). 3. Delegation exists, but the current maintainers of the zone are unable to continue their contribution. a) Within the existing zone, there are other maintainers, that can take over. They can apply to "Chris" for the job, or the current maintainers can suggest them to "Chris". If "Chris" approves, the delegation is transferred to the new admins. Example: Joe can no longer maintain uk.freebsd.org, but Brian is willing and able. Joe suggest Brian (or Brian suggest himself). "Chris" talks to Brian, and thinks thats a good solution. transfer the delegation from Joe's nameserver to Brian's. remains valid, but reaches now Brian instead of Joe. =20 b) No one can take over the zone maintenance. GOTO 2.b) :-)) It's really the same here as in 2.b) now. Either the site is dropped, or the delegation goes back to but with the (uk as an example here) contact address remaining valid. Extra Goodies that have been provided by Joe, may be dropped most likely, but that's inevitable. 4. Delegation exists, but the admins are unresponsive, there are problems, and site admins within the zone are unhappy with how current handles their requests. In this case, "Chris" needs to decide, if this becomes case 3. or remains case 1. So far how to handle and delegate requests. This proposal should solve most issues brought up by Ken, while still maintaining best current practice (where it works) and beeing transparent enough to avoid confusion. Drawbacks: * Some person or team must be willing to assume the role of "Chris", which is a very responsible role. * The team may need to take care of additional zones (but only in some cases), still this will result in more work, than just right now. Authorisation and Authentication -------------------------------- This issue has been addressed above only indirectly. Of course "Chris" evaluates and approves or denies=20 requests, so he/she has to power of authorization. But to simplify things, the following could be established.=20 For each delegation an OpenPGP conform key-pair should be created, that is used to sign any further requests to "Chris" or . A signed request can much quicker be decided. "Chris" will have to build a directory with at least the following content: , , Example(!): uk.freebsd.org: FreeBSD UK Admins Joseph Karthauser Brian Somers Approved public key: ....... Fingerprint : ....... [..] ---------- Additionally "Chris" can also maintain a list of responsible people for individual sites, but it may not necessarily be maintained that accurate. Like , , Example(!): ftp7.de.freebsd.org, Oliver Fromme , PGP key .... [..] -------- Of course the sites in a zone, that is not really delegated, but maintained by the team, should at least be accurate in the site-maintainer's list. So much for authorization and keeping track of current admins. Discussion media ---------------- The default channel to handle any requests, questions or problems with FreeBSD sites, should be the list, "Chris" should be subscribed to this list. Additionally, local zone administrators can set up local lists to handle and discuss requests, problems, etc within a zone. Example: ------------------ Ok, thanks for reading this so far. A soon as some proposal (like this) has been approved by you hub admins and the FreeBSD folks, we can put it (or the parts, that have passed) in another article to be published. That makes it easier for us all to implement anything, that we agree upon. Best regards, Daniel --=20 IRCnet: Mr-Spock - Cool people don't move, they just hang around. - =20 Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * ++49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ --0ntfKIWw70PvrIHh Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIXgAYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIXcTCCF20CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC FUAwggbMMIIFtKADAgECAgIVezANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAP BgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVu Y2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJH LUJlbnV0emVyLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDMwNTIwMTIz MTQyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBqzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVu MSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZ RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEUMBIGA1UEAxMLRGFuaWVsIExhbmcxJDAiBgkq hkiG9w0BCQEWFWRhbmllbC5sYW5nQGluLnR1bS5kZTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAw gYkCgYEAk55VXazdhYUuEJAHmO439gJwKVfvcdF64VyP8tzhYwiIx/9FOsQj8r8Gw2g0MDCa X2mCNiSKz32sUI33SQFhBhwxoF6bpq7d6pfeJ7UL+2T/bkRVF/Y7zPuMMK/wMbiEwyfvdjxk 8XsVtpj500LjW7QYdAHlijHRAY2nFk4f8bcCAwEAAaOCA38wggN7MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAw HQYDVR0OBBYEFPMLcu3eegcL6m8ObwlveYDdoYOpMIHKBgNVHSMEgcIwgb+AFK81Ou8wbY/H n0tx1dgCig9IKGPUoYGjpIGgMIGdMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTERMA8GA1UEBxMITXVlbmNoZW4x KTAnBgNVBAoTIFRlY2huaXNjaGUgVW5pdmVyc2l0YWV0IE11ZW5jaGVuMSIwIAYDVQQLExlG YWt1bHRhZXQgZnVlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlrMQ8wDQYDVQQDEwZSQkctQ0ExGzAZBgkqhkiG9w0B CQEWDGNhQGluLnR1bS5kZYIBAjAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUH AwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMIGxBgNVHREEgakwgaaBD2xhbmdkQGluLnR1bS5kZYEVZGFuaWVsLmxh bmdAaW4udHVtLmRlgR9sYW5nZEBpbmZvcm1hdGlrLnR1LW11ZW5jaGVuLmRlgSVkYW5pZWwu bGFuZ0BpbmZvcm1hdGlrLnR1LW11ZW5jaGVuLmRlgRBsYW5nZEBjcy50dW0uZWR1gRZkYW5p ZWwubGFuZ0Bjcy50dW0uZWR1gQpkbEBsZW8ub3JnMAkGA1UdEgQCMAAwOAYDVR0fBDEwLzAt oCugKYYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jcmxzL3VzZXJjYV9jcmwuY3JsMBEGCWCGSAGG +EIBAQQEAwIFoDCBnwYJYIZIAYb4QgENBIGRFoGORGllc2VzIFplcnRpZmlrYXQgd3VyZGUg YXVzZ2VzdGVsbHQgZnVlciBEYW5pZWwgTGFuZyB2b24gZGVyIFJCRy1CZW51dHplci1DQSwg RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpayBkZXIgVGVjaG5pc2NoZW4gVW5pdmVyc2l0YWV0 IE11ZW5jaGVuLjA2BglghkgBhvhCAQMEKRYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jZ2ktYmlu L3VzZXJjYS1yZXY/MDIGCWCGSAGG+EIBBAQlFiNodHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NnaS1i aW4vY2EtcmV2PzA2BglghkgBhvhCAQgEKRYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9wb2xpY2ll cy9yYmdjYS5odG1sMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQAGrfB5rH9D6jl6Tx+hwXpv0a/TuV39 vIQWMCA1hi0V4pI+bMyGTW1k/Ve5C58wRZv7CSTnxTGoqZmqnV37GGQlZBmvsDE+u3FKL/T7 Tk/rlVajExCXGHwjgHp2FfCaVMawKSUrI60aDcUgLUtT2DKpEfKfr/MC7CDtCaYy6TW93cHc uv2oM+1PN+CIcR5PaqEySmeYoXBMXd6sktjyNUWLxsNhtFMVnOiwF3SZYbRbRobuEWM3o+W7 nijECUIKz8rvK3f/c8v9HlVitMbeaTs4J1nZUR9lsvGLik6vsfIgbmuP6MMkrKFYwq5XTR1x JtMcmvnqcWytpYFDVPGuGaj1MIIHKDCCBRCgAwIBAgIBATANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBnTEL MAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVu aXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRp azEPMA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDIx MDA5MTY0MTAzWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBpDELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11 ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAG A1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUkJHLVNlcnZlci1D QTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FAaW4udHVtLmRlMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8A MIIBCgKCAQEAzAHBIFy4tKTvbMMg037hc9t2jR5MVpEUIPvrSWC4xpbr6Hw7abQW/lRfFpV8 enf9tSgfcl8kvGjAAD8AYeuDash6TQSUjBdZCe7V297oZ0dsuurZBkM5BwvLWF8vMiY+SD/+ XTqhnU6B/E9C+R5VXjXsXV2u9hDtKVC5hqVgnxRM5rT/LsUhcchgAXk2WuI8r9Llb+voPWwM FmHk2jxUwhvxZfGo15HDrvJUgzYsL36SmeYMI9Eo70uGmAQRPVVq2zn/3AC4z8X1cBd3ItnH YPbx0iUH5kEGq2KH5iCndwNq9oaFhKj+Y34wEv5BYl6sb5C9EBvtGyebNwuvmtC3tQIDAQAB o4ICaDCCAmQwDwYDVR0TAQH/BAUwAwEB/zAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUH9QPe0VQVF1D2v8Su/itK/4O QMwwgcoGA1UdIwSBwjCBv4AU2WV+TUF/hD+1KtZ7E519yuW0XRqhgaOkgaAwgZ0xCzAJBgNV BAYTAkRFMREwDwYDVQQHEwhNdWVuY2hlbjEpMCcGA1UEChMgVGVjaG5pc2NoZSBVbml2ZXJz aXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4xIjAgBgNVBAsTGUZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIEluZm9ybWF0aWsxDzAN BgNVBAMTBlJCRy1DQTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FAaW4udHVtLmRlggEAMA4GA1UdDwEB /wQEAwIBBjATBgNVHSUEDDAKBggrBgEFBQcDATA0BgNVHR8ELTArMCmgJ6AlhiNodHRwOi8v Y2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NybHMvY2FfY3JsLmNybDARBglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCAgQwgYQGCWCG SAGG+EIBDQR3FnVaZXJ0aWZpa2F0IGZ1ZXIgUkJHLVNlcnZlci1DQSBhdXNnZXN0ZWxsdCB2 b24gUkJHLUNBLCBGYWt1bHRhZXQgZnVlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlrIGRlciBUZWNobmlzY2hlbiBV bml2ZXJzaXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4wMgYJYIZIAYb4QgEEBCUWI2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5pbi50dW0u ZGUvY2dpLWJpbi9jYS1yZXY/MDwGCWCGSAGG+EIBCAQvFi1odHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRl L3BvbGljaWVzL3NlcnZlcmNhcG9sLmh0bWwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAMzKnULQb6Kd hPNmKKmPSJJUOtbHxGH7Qi8paskt7dzDja/X7wz3524LGN2f05c1uAfyAP9Ar0nFthWy0qeM ueOtrOcSCj8AYwYN5H4drMC8GglQwlkD0M/nhPJ5xtAj8JzNYHzG1DK5tVgoJnF+t4KmTpI6 QJ6Dh3XDoZXubWd0jkHxQIzOKhs9PPjEzydmerC7B3Zt8vh7457Sk6wwZFhXc+nkeIIplnlD sBioOSyF7hZOwx4I2Auxss1zsyUQHCX88sOuZC0kYB7yRd1TMRti8josznux8k13sZBezFMP S2yCuKRBEk5Nt57OyGbIF4O7Mhn01mTnol2BDpTKJek45bIpRvSLl/xRPpjnzxLO1rXtXgCs GtkmXj+Zwo5fnL6OvZIiFgMV4ASsFclZexceHxDjpia1IHSFB/4I5fAys8Bw03idI+rfsla1 mW0AJuw260QgoBz+b+LKGosJdNosMfOJmNl0vW3Kq6NfYpZLkG0YJF9Xo6vsATFk9kNq56ye ila80uE2wDO/BGAcBMWQ4uwfrWqVPoW5X/oHcPISApnCBeZ+LyWvnTkgxCUeyqyxNOvaA/j7 jUoBb9l+GWup8EGND16mR/wYWAxYLgis1pn5QmSTbbKSWKcqDo6HBo1Zx9XRf76CZc7RJRp9 EXqYrkmlL9eg7qcnnS1rJbqxMIIHQDCCBSigAwIBAgIBAjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBnTEL MAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVu aXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRp azEPMA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDIx MDA5MTcwMzUyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11 ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAG A1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJHLUJlbnV0emVy LUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IB DwAwggEKAoIBAQCtYQ5ycRY6fyrlvJgpeQCNhPxQduU59Kpv6xWId9sHL8NyI7nlmlWzMroD ddIqeg7QvvtPS+xorbQJ9rxh94lXZtwlGPYg4LC/1PHGnDt+8RGiq8GLbHyeJZoQnEGSovyn uR4wZ9qnApFRsXcUZ5W/CSSwjKnQeN39oFj8EC4xtmUuudV65sxGuGToRVoSnjeULJKYBNnC RxVx2MU5exKGQAuvgaVd7Ozb7ziZyWxhVCNrUQOGrSKDgyKLguWTNnD7sSOiOpie3IX8H2DV DvbcKcmMQr8ojwWutNDPadOth+J6qd/modqxB1VbH8wu0lezbhPM5dh7yUFCEqZoXXh9AgMB AAGjggJ+MIICejAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MB0GA1UdDgQWBBSvNTrvMG2Px59LcdXYAooP SChj1DCBygYDVR0jBIHCMIG/gBTZZX5NQX+EP7Uq1nsTnX3K5bRdGqGBo6SBoDCBnTELMAkG A1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZl cnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEP MA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGWCAQAwDgYDVR0P AQH/BAQDAgEGMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggrBgEFBQcDBDA0BgNVHR8ELTArMCmg J6AlhiNodHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NybHMvY2FfY3JsLmNybDAJBgNVHRIEAjAAMBEG CWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIBBjCBhwYJYIZIAYb4QgENBHoWeFplcnRpZmlrYXQgZnVlciBSQkct QmVudXR6ZXItQ0EsIGF1c2dlc3RlbGx0IHZvbiBSQkctQ0EsIEZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIElu Zm9ybWF0aWsgZGVyIFRlY2huaXNjaGVuIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjAyBglghkgB hvhCAQQEJRYjaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jZ2ktYmluL2NhLXJldj8wOgYJYIZIAYb4 QgEIBC0WK2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5pbi50dW0uZGUvcG9saWNpZXMvdXNlcmNhcG9sLmh0bWwwDQYJ KoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAJapnE3b+p2nrryUkfTEl5iKTl7o8hLrB4FbLZsdBs16pIb0fIIq yGR0wlv0Qq5OLHm1hQzGkfhqEb2O+oBQJgaykxAB+6rKKOJdL12LSQrYXbDV8t/isyurwkFi fmcWDxVF4reDcz8F61KrVz46k2KtdY39CcuW+x1xQZRgier+jdBLLsbkM21XkufUrwnnO5Vr j0cD48XmcsVuWF0EkGo49jPHk8LG2cMyhQR/ZT4f1kegi9WmoV4NjKJnEU2QaTfbLUb2i509 RYf31oDnhq6oO1wCcRvVeDfyx5aj0y68sL1ySNmTQEELOmOFPqmVqa9BAR4wzuTXJi9UvOwF tQMsKq9AX4cFegDl4D4E5QQ7JladBMvJ0VALdGSGlGHARQGvO8SvapsOTVPC5n+UD6jwhTw0 pCPSypzIIrpT9vjxD7bDvudOfKguVRuX8poWID7yXcB0ApHdoNIMrGJx1Tc6SN6rGKWYre+W y/AsqMNNmR+YrJn/UOs6lKX9TtaHOFbxNPwo7RgdRg/srESEtIQ5IKkPA0Vt9Eh5H3VWBhrU b1gmvyNTwJFRqYmFhr7jFFdgnX3Jsbw81jl1z4jLdeeslLxs8vmnwQvWRz3BEPo+g0mrIuYt QjSdgGF8xHgyeRxfa8o3P/rncBysyNYe/AdWd6UGPmompEBZuFzSN+G8MYICCDCCAgQCAQEw ga0wgaYxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMREwDwYDVQQHEwhNdWVuY2hlbjEpMCcGA1UEChMgVGVjaG5p c2NoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4xIjAgBgNVBAsTGUZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIElu Zm9ybWF0aWsxGDAWBgNVBAMTD1JCRy1CZW51dHplci1DQTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FA aW4udHVtLmRlAgIVezAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIGxMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEw HAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTAzMDYyNjExMTEyN1owIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFNXjJL6OU1gw Ffudk+shbS8KBmW2MFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUABIGASgXEQCzL/c6XuQ2gPu2g9gaYkt7DP+Fv10NLQG1H/18w9A7lh+6KTVzul4XJqIQ6 dR9ugQdm4wq1edPYtMpjw8IQBjopYgdn1ubmEKuiiXBVAfEs0wrKtsWhoxYvW3AwnMjhUTXO Z8Ax5Vqby302u6mcf/DqFL6USiS5kYMAyi4= --0ntfKIWw70PvrIHh-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 05:47:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3AA37B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3B743FE1 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5QCl6br004637 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5QCl50N004636 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:47:05 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030626124705.GA4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> <20030625233455.GA22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625234433.GB22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030626010219.GE68238@isnic.is> <20030626013823.GA24444@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030626111127.GB10018@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030626111127.GB10018@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: DNS Stuff Proposal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:47:09 -0000 That was great! :-) I especially like the solution of creating hostmaster..freebsd.org and pointing it to the central admins if the .freebsd.org isn't strong enough to handle DNS on their own. It's not quite as simple as "send to hostmaster@freebsd.org no matter what you want" but it's definitely the next best thing and it eliminates the variability. Just one question so far. In your examples is Chris viewed as the coordinator of the FTP mirror sites, or is he the coordinator of DNS, or is he coordinator of everything (dns, ftp, cvsup, and www)? I sort of figured there would be four different people coordinating those four different things but I was guessing that was needed, I wasn't sure if one person could do all of them. And I figured they needed to be coordinated on a global basis (even if they're managed at a regional level, if that makes any sense...) if things like a sane tiering system for FTP sites is to be done, or Murray's stats collection, etc. I figured the cvsup and www services would have similar-but-different issues they face, they'd have their own equivalent of hubs@, and they'd coordinate themselves separate from the ftp sites. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 07:36:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15CA37B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF8343FAF for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:36:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5QEa2br007108 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5QEa1VM007107 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:36:01 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030626143601.GC4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Mirror Site Form Letter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:36:04 -0000 One thing Jun asked me to do is be the first to respond to a new mirror site request, passing on the results to him. I'd like to have a form letter that takes care of collecting all the info that should be recorded about a site, as well as making sure that they seem to know what they're doing (using my previous example, making sure it's not a teenager who thinks his new broadband connection is cool...). Can you please comment (to me) on the following? Is it appropriate? Did I miss anything? I am also interested in how well it can be read and understood by people whose first language is not English. Is this too "American" in how things are said? Should things be phrased a bit differently so they are better understood by a wider variety of people? Thanks... ------------------ Please do not feel insulted by the following questions. We receive offers to become an Official FreeBSD Mirror from a wide range of people. Some of those people fully realize the responsibilities they are taking on. Others do not know what they are getting themselves into. The information requested below is meant to help us make sure you do realize what it is you are getting into as well as provide us with some information that will help us integrate your site into the Mirror System. 1) What is your Organization's name and location (Country, City, and State/Province/etc)? 2) Please provide a contact name, email address, and phone number. 3) What is the speed of your Network connection(s) and what Regional Network(s) are you connected to? 4) What is the current machine architecture (processor, physical memory, and disk space provided for mirroring) and Operating System (we will NOT hold it against you if this is not FreeBSD). Please also include the hostname and IP address. 5) What FTP Daemon do you use (ProFTP, wu-FTP, etc)? If users will have access via the Web which Web Server to you use (Apache?)? 6) Do you run the mirroring data pulls as a different user than your anonymous FTP user? This is not a requirement at this time but but it is highly advisable. The FreeBSD Releases are now being staged to the mirror sites several days before Release Day with the file permissions closed down and this split user setup is the only way that can work. 7) What would you prefer to use for your data pulls? Tier-1 Mirror Sites can use cvsup, the various FTP based tools (omi, mirror, etc), or rsync. 8) What do you use to limit the impact of your FTP server on your network? Typically this is a bandwidth limit or a limit on the number of anonymous FTP users. 9) If you are not completely in charge of your site (for example, if you are the Administrator of one Department inside of a University) have you obtained the permission of the Organization to become a Mirror Site? At times being a Mirror Site may have a noticable impact on your Organization's network infrastructure. Thanks for your interest in providing a FreeBSD Mirror Site. ------------------ -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 07:43:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B8E837B404 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mailout.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18CA443F75 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:43:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:43:46 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030626144346.GA10304@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <3EF9A5FD.22140.3F8EC95E@localhost> <3EF9F650.2909.40C896BC@localhost> <20030625233455.GA22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030625234433.GB22339@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030626010219.GE68238@isnic.is> <20030626013823.GA24444@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030626111127.GB10018@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> <20030626124705.GA4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030626124705.GA4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-Geek: GCS/CC d-- s: a- C++$ UBS++++$ P+++$ L- E-(---) W+++(--) N++ o K w--- O? M? V? PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5+++ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y+ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at informatik.tu-muenchen.de cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DNS Stuff Proposal X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:43:53 -0000 --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ken, Ken Smith wrote on Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 08:47:05AM -0400: >=20 > That was great! :-) Thanks. > I especially like the solution of creating hostmaster..freebsd.org > and pointing it to the central admins if the .freebsd.org isn't > strong enough to handle DNS on their own. It's not quite as simple > as "send to hostmaster@freebsd.org no matter what you want" but it's > definitely the next best thing and it eliminates the variability. >=20 > Just one question so far. In your examples is Chris viewed as the > coordinator of the FTP mirror sites, or is he the coordinator of > DNS, or is he coordinator of everything (dns, ftp, cvsup, and www)? Hmm, I agree, that this was not clear. I try to be more specific "Chris" is a person (or even a team), that is responsible for handling DNS entry requests. These could be delegation requests, or simple entries. "Chris" may not necessarily have to decide, if a new FTP mirror is useful in a particular region. This should be decided either internally of that zone (if possible), or maybe decided by "Chris" in conjunction with some other people, like Jun. Possibly the opinion of other subscribers could also be taken into account. So I would say, Chris is the coordinator for DNS requests. Other Coordinators not related to Chris are for the FreeBSD archive (FTP contents), who will have to interact with (which already works very well). {ftp,cvsup}-master.freebsd.org access is already handled by Jun. IMHO CVSup/CVS Repository and WWW Services do not require a special coordinator. There is not much coordination required, apart from deciding necessity and granting=20 DNS entries, which again will be a job of Chris and his fellow admins, responsible for a local zone. I hope this is clear enough. > I sort of figured there would be four different people coordinating > those four different things but I was guessing that was needed, I > wasn't sure if one person could do all of them. And I figured they > needed to be coordinated on a global basis (even if they're managed > at a regional level, if that makes any sense...) if things like a > sane tiering system for FTP sites is to be done, or Murray's stats A sort of sane tiering system is in place. What is missing is the documentation of the current situation, so you might get the impression. On the other hand, I would not over-regulate the tier-system. The whole thing is too dynamic for strict structures, IMHO. The only thing, that needs to be more controlled is the access to the master servers, and this is handled by their admins (Ceijka and Jun). > collection, etc. I figured the cvsup and www services would have > similar-but-different issues they face, they'd have their own equivalent > of hubs@, and they'd coordinate themselves separate from the ftp sites. There are far less complex issues to run these services, so there is really not much to coordinate with these services. Everything can be handled very well within the context, IMHO. Best regards, Daniel --=20 IRCnet: Mr-Spock - Agartim billiard bumba m'abdul in papejim twista=20 - rumba rock n rolla. Leik'ab mai. Spirzon Heroin se'osit gaula. - - Marijuana esit gaula. Haschisch. Opis. -=20 Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 18532 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIXgAYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIXcTCCF20CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC FUAwggbMMIIFtKADAgECAgIVezANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAP BgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVu Y2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJH LUJlbnV0emVyLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDMwNTIwMTIz MTQyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBqzELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVu MSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZ RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEUMBIGA1UEAxMLRGFuaWVsIExhbmcxJDAiBgkq hkiG9w0BCQEWFWRhbmllbC5sYW5nQGluLnR1bS5kZTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAw gYkCgYEAk55VXazdhYUuEJAHmO439gJwKVfvcdF64VyP8tzhYwiIx/9FOsQj8r8Gw2g0MDCa X2mCNiSKz32sUI33SQFhBhwxoF6bpq7d6pfeJ7UL+2T/bkRVF/Y7zPuMMK/wMbiEwyfvdjxk 8XsVtpj500LjW7QYdAHlijHRAY2nFk4f8bcCAwEAAaOCA38wggN7MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAw HQYDVR0OBBYEFPMLcu3eegcL6m8ObwlveYDdoYOpMIHKBgNVHSMEgcIwgb+AFK81Ou8wbY/H n0tx1dgCig9IKGPUoYGjpIGgMIGdMQswCQYDVQQGEwJERTERMA8GA1UEBxMITXVlbmNoZW4x KTAnBgNVBAoTIFRlY2huaXNjaGUgVW5pdmVyc2l0YWV0IE11ZW5jaGVuMSIwIAYDVQQLExlG YWt1bHRhZXQgZnVlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlrMQ8wDQYDVQQDEwZSQkctQ0ExGzAZBgkqhkiG9w0B CQEWDGNhQGluLnR1bS5kZYIBAjAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUH AwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMIGxBgNVHREEgakwgaaBD2xhbmdkQGluLnR1bS5kZYEVZGFuaWVsLmxh bmdAaW4udHVtLmRlgR9sYW5nZEBpbmZvcm1hdGlrLnR1LW11ZW5jaGVuLmRlgSVkYW5pZWwu bGFuZ0BpbmZvcm1hdGlrLnR1LW11ZW5jaGVuLmRlgRBsYW5nZEBjcy50dW0uZWR1gRZkYW5p ZWwubGFuZ0Bjcy50dW0uZWR1gQpkbEBsZW8ub3JnMAkGA1UdEgQCMAAwOAYDVR0fBDEwLzAt oCugKYYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jcmxzL3VzZXJjYV9jcmwuY3JsMBEGCWCGSAGG +EIBAQQEAwIFoDCBnwYJYIZIAYb4QgENBIGRFoGORGllc2VzIFplcnRpZmlrYXQgd3VyZGUg YXVzZ2VzdGVsbHQgZnVlciBEYW5pZWwgTGFuZyB2b24gZGVyIFJCRy1CZW51dHplci1DQSwg RmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpayBkZXIgVGVjaG5pc2NoZW4gVW5pdmVyc2l0YWV0 IE11ZW5jaGVuLjA2BglghkgBhvhCAQMEKRYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jZ2ktYmlu L3VzZXJjYS1yZXY/MDIGCWCGSAGG+EIBBAQlFiNodHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NnaS1i aW4vY2EtcmV2PzA2BglghkgBhvhCAQgEKRYnaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9wb2xpY2ll cy9yYmdjYS5odG1sMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQAGrfB5rH9D6jl6Tx+hwXpv0a/TuV39 vIQWMCA1hi0V4pI+bMyGTW1k/Ve5C58wRZv7CSTnxTGoqZmqnV37GGQlZBmvsDE+u3FKL/T7 Tk/rlVajExCXGHwjgHp2FfCaVMawKSUrI60aDcUgLUtT2DKpEfKfr/MC7CDtCaYy6TW93cHc uv2oM+1PN+CIcR5PaqEySmeYoXBMXd6sktjyNUWLxsNhtFMVnOiwF3SZYbRbRobuEWM3o+W7 nijECUIKz8rvK3f/c8v9HlVitMbeaTs4J1nZUR9lsvGLik6vsfIgbmuP6MMkrKFYwq5XTR1x JtMcmvnqcWytpYFDVPGuGaj1MIIHKDCCBRCgAwIBAgIBATANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBnTEL MAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVu aXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRp azEPMA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDIx MDA5MTY0MTAzWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBpDELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11 ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAG A1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEWMBQGA1UEAxMNUkJHLVNlcnZlci1D QTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FAaW4udHVtLmRlMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8A MIIBCgKCAQEAzAHBIFy4tKTvbMMg037hc9t2jR5MVpEUIPvrSWC4xpbr6Hw7abQW/lRfFpV8 enf9tSgfcl8kvGjAAD8AYeuDash6TQSUjBdZCe7V297oZ0dsuurZBkM5BwvLWF8vMiY+SD/+ XTqhnU6B/E9C+R5VXjXsXV2u9hDtKVC5hqVgnxRM5rT/LsUhcchgAXk2WuI8r9Llb+voPWwM FmHk2jxUwhvxZfGo15HDrvJUgzYsL36SmeYMI9Eo70uGmAQRPVVq2zn/3AC4z8X1cBd3ItnH YPbx0iUH5kEGq2KH5iCndwNq9oaFhKj+Y34wEv5BYl6sb5C9EBvtGyebNwuvmtC3tQIDAQAB o4ICaDCCAmQwDwYDVR0TAQH/BAUwAwEB/zAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUH9QPe0VQVF1D2v8Su/itK/4O QMwwgcoGA1UdIwSBwjCBv4AU2WV+TUF/hD+1KtZ7E519yuW0XRqhgaOkgaAwgZ0xCzAJBgNV BAYTAkRFMREwDwYDVQQHEwhNdWVuY2hlbjEpMCcGA1UEChMgVGVjaG5pc2NoZSBVbml2ZXJz aXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4xIjAgBgNVBAsTGUZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIEluZm9ybWF0aWsxDzAN BgNVBAMTBlJCRy1DQTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FAaW4udHVtLmRlggEAMA4GA1UdDwEB /wQEAwIBBjATBgNVHSUEDDAKBggrBgEFBQcDATA0BgNVHR8ELTArMCmgJ6AlhiNodHRwOi8v Y2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NybHMvY2FfY3JsLmNybDARBglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCAgQwgYQGCWCG SAGG+EIBDQR3FnVaZXJ0aWZpa2F0IGZ1ZXIgUkJHLVNlcnZlci1DQSBhdXNnZXN0ZWxsdCB2 b24gUkJHLUNBLCBGYWt1bHRhZXQgZnVlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlrIGRlciBUZWNobmlzY2hlbiBV bml2ZXJzaXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4wMgYJYIZIAYb4QgEEBCUWI2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5pbi50dW0u ZGUvY2dpLWJpbi9jYS1yZXY/MDwGCWCGSAGG+EIBCAQvFi1odHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRl L3BvbGljaWVzL3NlcnZlcmNhcG9sLmh0bWwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAMzKnULQb6Kd hPNmKKmPSJJUOtbHxGH7Qi8paskt7dzDja/X7wz3524LGN2f05c1uAfyAP9Ar0nFthWy0qeM ueOtrOcSCj8AYwYN5H4drMC8GglQwlkD0M/nhPJ5xtAj8JzNYHzG1DK5tVgoJnF+t4KmTpI6 QJ6Dh3XDoZXubWd0jkHxQIzOKhs9PPjEzydmerC7B3Zt8vh7457Sk6wwZFhXc+nkeIIplnlD sBioOSyF7hZOwx4I2Auxss1zsyUQHCX88sOuZC0kYB7yRd1TMRti8josznux8k13sZBezFMP S2yCuKRBEk5Nt57OyGbIF4O7Mhn01mTnol2BDpTKJek45bIpRvSLl/xRPpjnzxLO1rXtXgCs GtkmXj+Zwo5fnL6OvZIiFgMV4ASsFclZexceHxDjpia1IHSFB/4I5fAys8Bw03idI+rfsla1 mW0AJuw260QgoBz+b+LKGosJdNosMfOJmNl0vW3Kq6NfYpZLkG0YJF9Xo6vsATFk9kNq56ye ila80uE2wDO/BGAcBMWQ4uwfrWqVPoW5X/oHcPISApnCBeZ+LyWvnTkgxCUeyqyxNOvaA/j7 jUoBb9l+GWup8EGND16mR/wYWAxYLgis1pn5QmSTbbKSWKcqDo6HBo1Zx9XRf76CZc7RJRp9 EXqYrkmlL9eg7qcnnS1rJbqxMIIHQDCCBSigAwIBAgIBAjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCBnTEL MAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVu aXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRp azEPMA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwHhcNMDIx MDA5MTcwMzUyWhcNMDQwNTIxMDAwMDAwWjCBpjELMAkGA1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11 ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAG A1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEYMBYGA1UEAxMPUkJHLUJlbnV0emVy LUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGUwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IB DwAwggEKAoIBAQCtYQ5ycRY6fyrlvJgpeQCNhPxQduU59Kpv6xWId9sHL8NyI7nlmlWzMroD ddIqeg7QvvtPS+xorbQJ9rxh94lXZtwlGPYg4LC/1PHGnDt+8RGiq8GLbHyeJZoQnEGSovyn uR4wZ9qnApFRsXcUZ5W/CSSwjKnQeN39oFj8EC4xtmUuudV65sxGuGToRVoSnjeULJKYBNnC RxVx2MU5exKGQAuvgaVd7Ozb7ziZyWxhVCNrUQOGrSKDgyKLguWTNnD7sSOiOpie3IX8H2DV DvbcKcmMQr8ojwWutNDPadOth+J6qd/modqxB1VbH8wu0lezbhPM5dh7yUFCEqZoXXh9AgMB AAGjggJ+MIICejAPBgNVHRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MB0GA1UdDgQWBBSvNTrvMG2Px59LcdXYAooP SChj1DCBygYDVR0jBIHCMIG/gBTZZX5NQX+EP7Uq1nsTnX3K5bRdGqGBo6SBoDCBnTELMAkG A1UEBhMCREUxETAPBgNVBAcTCE11ZW5jaGVuMSkwJwYDVQQKEyBUZWNobmlzY2hlIFVuaXZl cnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjEiMCAGA1UECxMZRmFrdWx0YWV0IGZ1ZXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpazEP MA0GA1UEAxMGUkJHLUNBMRswGQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFgxjYUBpbi50dW0uZGWCAQAwDgYDVR0P AQH/BAQDAgEGMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggrBgEFBQcDBDA0BgNVHR8ELTArMCmg J6AlhiNodHRwOi8vY2EuaW4udHVtLmRlL2NybHMvY2FfY3JsLmNybDAJBgNVHRIEAjAAMBEG CWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIBBjCBhwYJYIZIAYb4QgENBHoWeFplcnRpZmlrYXQgZnVlciBSQkct QmVudXR6ZXItQ0EsIGF1c2dlc3RlbGx0IHZvbiBSQkctQ0EsIEZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIElu Zm9ybWF0aWsgZGVyIFRlY2huaXNjaGVuIFVuaXZlcnNpdGFldCBNdWVuY2hlbjAyBglghkgB hvhCAQQEJRYjaHR0cDovL2NhLmluLnR1bS5kZS9jZ2ktYmluL2NhLXJldj8wOgYJYIZIAYb4 QgEIBC0WK2h0dHA6Ly9jYS5pbi50dW0uZGUvcG9saWNpZXMvdXNlcmNhcG9sLmh0bWwwDQYJ KoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAJapnE3b+p2nrryUkfTEl5iKTl7o8hLrB4FbLZsdBs16pIb0fIIq yGR0wlv0Qq5OLHm1hQzGkfhqEb2O+oBQJgaykxAB+6rKKOJdL12LSQrYXbDV8t/isyurwkFi fmcWDxVF4reDcz8F61KrVz46k2KtdY39CcuW+x1xQZRgier+jdBLLsbkM21XkufUrwnnO5Vr j0cD48XmcsVuWF0EkGo49jPHk8LG2cMyhQR/ZT4f1kegi9WmoV4NjKJnEU2QaTfbLUb2i509 RYf31oDnhq6oO1wCcRvVeDfyx5aj0y68sL1ySNmTQEELOmOFPqmVqa9BAR4wzuTXJi9UvOwF tQMsKq9AX4cFegDl4D4E5QQ7JladBMvJ0VALdGSGlGHARQGvO8SvapsOTVPC5n+UD6jwhTw0 pCPSypzIIrpT9vjxD7bDvudOfKguVRuX8poWID7yXcB0ApHdoNIMrGJx1Tc6SN6rGKWYre+W y/AsqMNNmR+YrJn/UOs6lKX9TtaHOFbxNPwo7RgdRg/srESEtIQ5IKkPA0Vt9Eh5H3VWBhrU b1gmvyNTwJFRqYmFhr7jFFdgnX3Jsbw81jl1z4jLdeeslLxs8vmnwQvWRz3BEPo+g0mrIuYt QjSdgGF8xHgyeRxfa8o3P/rncBysyNYe/AdWd6UGPmompEBZuFzSN+G8MYICCDCCAgQCAQEw ga0wgaYxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMREwDwYDVQQHEwhNdWVuY2hlbjEpMCcGA1UEChMgVGVjaG5p c2NoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXRhZXQgTXVlbmNoZW4xIjAgBgNVBAsTGUZha3VsdGFldCBmdWVyIElu Zm9ybWF0aWsxGDAWBgNVBAMTD1JCRy1CZW51dHplci1DQTEbMBkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYMY2FA aW4udHVtLmRlAgIVezAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIGxMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEw HAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTAzMDYyNjE0NDM0NlowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFBes4TKHfBHV a4Bzg0aZVWVhGXo1MFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUABIGAEBMJMYSA9TmL4NceGB7fRj5OJwIfrwhZ5Rdy7DZBCAwIqJacgkAfLMHpylqf7Npk 1mFhPPYDVwrLJpQB89SHDb+Ij+3ZTQ3SNL4L3NkwuChCRY5DmexlUM6xXXZXXTq5rwyxHlny mOaCLv+SLDxR0pPdwO6ego1EjfkhueDpXl0= --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 07:48:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15D237B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F420C43F75 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F6B3F4E; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:48:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Ken Smith Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:48:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3EFACF7C.32656.4418F92C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030626143601.GC4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Form Letter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:48:31 -0000 On 26 Jun 2003 at 10:36, Ken Smith wrote: > Can you please comment (to me) on the following? Is it appropriate? > Did I miss anything? I am also interested in how well it can be read > and understood by people whose first language is not English. Is > this too "American" in how things are said? Should things be phrased > a bit differently so they are better understood by a wider variety > of people? One thing to keep in mind is that a mirror can be fine for the purpose intended yet not meet the published recommend requirements. nz.freebsd.org has never met the minimum requirements. But it meets the need of that much smaller market. .nz has fewer people than many cities. I think the requirements may need revision as well. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 07:57:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D0B237B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paiol.terra.com.br (paiol.terra.com.br [200.176.3.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970DC43F75 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: from bertioga.terra.com.br (bertioga.terra.com.br [200.176.3.77]) by paiol.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1772184A99F; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:56:39 -0300 (BRT) Received: from jonny.eng.br (unknown [200.165.170.201]) (authenticated user dioni21) by bertioga.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id A668E3F8085; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:56:37 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <3EFB09D1.5030406@jonny.eng.br> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:57:21 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_Carlos_Mendes_Lu=EDs?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: pt-br, en-us, en, pt MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Langille References: <3EFACF7C.32656.4418F92C@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Form Letter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:57:17 -0000 Dan Langille wrote: > On 26 Jun 2003 at 10:36, Ken Smith wrote: > > >>Can you please comment (to me) on the following? Is it appropriate? >>Did I miss anything? I am also interested in how well it can be read >>and understood by people whose first language is not English. Is >>this too "American" in how things are said? Should things be phrased >>a bit differently so they are better understood by a wider variety >>of people? > > > One thing to keep in mind is that a mirror can be fine for the > purpose intended yet not meet the published recommend requirements. > > nz.freebsd.org has never met the minimum requirements. But it meets > the need of that much smaller market. .nz has fewer people than many > cities. Likewise, ftp.br.freebsd.org carries only i386 binaries, and full packages only the latest stable release. The first "problem" is not intended to be addressed soon, unless there is enough requirements from brasilian users for other arquitectures (amd64 and ia64, maybe). The second problem is being addressed right now, collecting funds to buy a new disk. Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís - Networking Engineer - jonny@jonny.eng.br -- "the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do." -- Samuel P. Huntington From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 08:07:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C1137B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAC743F85 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:07:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5QF7Abr007980 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5QF7Acx007979 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:07:10 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030626150710.GD4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030626143601.GC4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3EFACF7C.32656.4418F92C@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EFACF7C.32656.4418F92C@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: Mirror Site Form Letter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:07:12 -0000 On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 10:48:28AM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > One thing to keep in mind is that a mirror can be fine for the > purpose intended yet not meet the published recommend requirements. Yes, sorry - I didn't make that clear. All this was supposed to be was me making initial contact and then passing it on to Jun. It's up to him to decide what happens from there, I'm not doing anything other than trying to take care of something simple on his behalf and give him what he needs. He of course would be best to determine if I asked everything he needs but I thought extra input, especially on the "English-ness" of it would help. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 08:16:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AEF437B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gaultopia.org (yttrium.4ph.com [66.197.0.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64C943FCB for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:16:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from e@gaultopia.org) Received: (qmail 72255 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2003 15:16:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO www.gaultopia.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 26 Jun 2003 15:16:19 -0000 Received: from 152.163.190.1 (SquirrelMail authenticated user eng) by www.gaultopia.org with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30494.152.163.190.1.1056640579.squirrel@www.gaultopia.org> In-Reply-To: <20030626143601.GC4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030626143601.GC4506@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:16:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Erik Gault" To: "Ken Smith" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.0 [CVS] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Form Letter X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:16:21 -0000 I think it is important to at least provide a reference to a pretty good explanation of what is expected of each tier of mirror and to describe the range of traffic possible. The nz and br folks mentioned their relatively small size and traffic but they still obviously serve their purpose in their regions well. In contrast, ftp2.freebsd.org hovers around 10-20Mbits/sec at all times, and during releases it has spiked up over 300Mbits/sec for substantial periods of time. Probably the most useful thing someone considering starting a new mirror could see would be statistics from a number of the existing mirrors to use as a reference. I know Murray has been interested in getting better statistics from the mirrors, perhaps as part of all this "organizing" we can also put together a semi-standardized statistics collection methodology. Or at least a list of statistics a mirror should provide "if possible" with some example scripts they can adapt. Ken Smith said: > > One thing Jun asked me to do is be the first to respond to a new > mirror site request, passing on the results to him. I'd like to > have a form letter that takes care of collecting all the info > that should be recorded about a site, as well as making sure that > they seem to know what they're doing (using my previous example, > making sure it's not a teenager who thinks his new broadband connection > is cool...). > > Can you please comment (to me) on the following? Is it appropriate? > Did I miss anything? I am also interested in how well it can be read > and understood by people whose first language is not English. Is > this too "American" in how things are said? Should things be phrased > a bit differently so they are better understood by a wider variety > of people? > > Thanks... > > ------------------ > > Please do not feel insulted by the following questions. We receive offers > to become an Official FreeBSD Mirror from a wide range of people. Some of > those people fully realize the responsibilities they are taking on. > Others > do not know what they are getting themselves into. The information > requested > below is meant to help us make sure you do realize what it is you are > getting > into as well as provide us with some information that will help us > integrate > your site into the Mirror System. > > 1) What is your Organization's name and location (Country, City, and > State/Province/etc)? > > 2) Please provide a contact name, email address, and phone number. > > 3) What is the speed of your Network connection(s) and what Regional > Network(s) are you connected to? > > 4) What is the current machine architecture (processor, physical memory, > and disk space provided for mirroring) and Operating System (we will > NOT hold it against you if this is not FreeBSD). Please also include > the hostname and IP address. > > 5) What FTP Daemon do you use (ProFTP, wu-FTP, etc)? If users will have > access via the Web which Web Server to you use (Apache?)? > > 6) Do you run the mirroring data pulls as a different user than your > anonymous FTP user? This is not a requirement at this time but > but it is highly advisable. The FreeBSD Releases are now being > staged to the mirror sites several days before Release Day with > the file permissions closed down and this split user setup is the > only way that can work. > > 7) What would you prefer to use for your data pulls? Tier-1 Mirror > Sites can use cvsup, the various FTP based tools (omi, mirror, etc), > or rsync. > > 8) What do you use to limit the impact of your FTP server on your > network? Typically this is a bandwidth limit or a limit on the > number of anonymous FTP users. > > 9) If you are not completely in charge of your site (for example, if > you are the Administrator of one Department inside of a University) > have you obtained the permission of the Organization to become a > Mirror Site? At times being a Mirror Site may have a noticable > impact on your Organization's network infrastructure. > > Thanks for your interest in providing a FreeBSD Mirror Site. > > > ------------------ > > -- > Ken Smith > - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu > there, funny things are everywhere. | > - Theodore Geisel | > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hubs > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hubs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 09:57:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D26537B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3803943FE3 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5QGv8br010719 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5QGv8pW010718 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:57:08 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030626165708.GC9692@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: What does delegation mean? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:57:10 -0000 [ I'd like to try something to reduce the email volume. Please reply to this straight to me. I will summarize the results later. If it seems to you like I mis-represent things in the summary feel free to flame me all you want then. I accidentally started conversation about something I didn't think would generate conversation once already today (I should have waited for the dust to settle on DNS before posting the letter thing...) so I don't want to add even more. :-] I started a private conversation with one of you so I could learn more about the current structure of things and learned quite a bit that way. For those of you who are running delegated zones: - Do you provide www, cvsup, and ftp servers that all of the folks down inside of your zone use? For example if your zone was foo.freebsd.org does any system inside of your zone connect to a ftp-master* site that is outside of your zone? - If you are providing these Tier-1 servers which then feed Tier-2 servers, do the Tier-2 servers wind up having the releases in the "staged" form (permissions set properly so it's not available to anonymous FTP users) before Release Day? If the answer to the first question is that virtually all delegated zones work that way then as you have been trying to point out to me life is much simpler than I had thought it was before, I didn't realize the delegated zones where *that* self-sufficient. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 15:27:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9462C37B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B547F43FBD for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5QMRabr019297 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5QMRaNL019296 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:27:36 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030626222736.GB18007@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: DNS - Summary? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:27:39 -0000 Jun, I hate to "put you on the spot" but you started it... :-) Would you say the following is a fair summary of the discussion so far and reflects the direction we should take? I realize you are extremely busy so simple "Yes/No" would be OK but more info is always better. If you can spare the time to provide that I think the rest of us could become more focused. 1)The current country-code based delegation for all zones will stay in place, being able to handle DNS locally is required for any region's country code to exist in the FreeBSD namespace. 2)It will be the responsibility of that country code's DNS admins (or local people they decide on) to handle all DNS requests for that region on their own. 3)The US sites will be moved to us.freebsd.org and someone will be set up in a role to handle (2) for that zone. 4)The TLD sites "www.freebsd.org", "ftp*.freebsd.org", etc. will, as someone else suggested, become the best of the currently available mirror sites regardless of country they're in. If you can either say that's correct or let us know what needs to be researched/discussed more I think that would help. If the above is correct I could take this and work out the next step towards what you asked for. I think you are the only one at this point who could say one way or another whether (2) is correct or if the people who make up dnsadm@ would be willing to take on administering a country code's zone if the people in that country code could not for some reason. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 15:38:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D32537B407 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amun.isnic.is (amun.isnic.is [193.4.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35B643FFD for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: from amun.isnic.is (oli@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/isnic) with ESMTP id h5QMcAWx086734; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:38:10 GMT (envelope-from oli@amun.isnic.is) Received: (from oli@localhost) by amun.isnic.is (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5QMcAn5086733; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:38:10 GMT (envelope-from oli) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:38:09 +0000 From: Olafur Osvaldsson To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030626223809.GB85121@isnic.is> Mail-Followup-To: Ken Smith , freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org References: <20030626222736.GB18007@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030626222736.GB18007@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=6.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55-isnic X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55-isnic (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DNS - Summary? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:38:16 -0000 Ken, On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Ken Smith wrote: > asked for. I think you are the only one at this point who could say > one way or another whether (2) is correct or if the people who make > up dnsadm@ would be willing to take on administering a country code's > zone if the people in that country code could not for some reason. There could even be a seperate team from dnsadm@ willing to take on that role, that is handle CC zones wich don't have a local person/corp willing or able to handle it. /Oli -- Olafur Osvaldsson Systems Administrator Internet a Islandi hf. Tel: +354 525-5291 Email: oli@isnic.is From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 18:21:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9F137B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from white.imgsrc.co.jp (ns.imgsrc.co.jp [210.226.20.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C35043FBF for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:21:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuriyama@imgsrc.co.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D690D425E for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3278F4247 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:21:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by black.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCB61E460E for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:21:49 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:21:49 +0900 Message-ID: <7mbrwk48nm.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030626222736.GB18007@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030626222736.GB18007@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 Subject: Re: DNS - Summary? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:21:52 -0000 At Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:27:36 -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > 1)The current country-code based delegation for all zones will > stay in place, being able to handle DNS locally is required > for any region's country code to exist in the FreeBSD namespace. > 2)It will be the responsibility of that country code's DNS admins > (or local people they decide on) to handle all DNS requests > for that region on their own. Agreed. I'll request dnsadm@ to give us current CC zone (and its administrator contact) list to clarify current status. > 3)The US sites will be moved to us.freebsd.org and someone will > be set up in a role to handle (2) for that zone. > > 4)The TLD sites "www.freebsd.org", "ftp*.freebsd.org", etc. will, > as someone else suggested, become the best of the currently > available mirror sites regardless of country they're in. > > If you can either say that's correct or let us know what needs to be > researched/discussed more I think that would help. If the above is > correct I could take this and work out the next step towards what you > asked for. I think you are the only one at this point who could say > one way or another whether (2) is correct or if the people who make > up dnsadm@ would be willing to take on administering a country code's > zone if the people in that country code could not for some reason. As one of hostmaster@jp.FreeBSD.org, I'd say (2) is correct. We are responsible to maintain jp.FreeBSD.org domain for years and (hopefully) administered as quickly as we can. The direction of (3) and (4) seems good. I think we should "add" ftp*.us.FreeBSD.org from ftp*.FreeBSD.org (not "move") to keep currently available famous mirrors. -- Jun Kuriyama // IMG SRC, Inc. // FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 18:27:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2A137B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFAA43FDD for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:27:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5R1R4br022612; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5R1R42w022611; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:27:04 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Jun Kuriyama Message-ID: <20030627012704.GA22213@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030626222736.GB18007@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7mbrwk48nm.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7mbrwk48nm.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DNS - Summary? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:27:05 -0000 Thank you very much. That also explains why you thought the site admin contacts and PGP list thing was a good idea. I was afraid of it because I thought it meant dnsadm@ had to keep the table for every site. If we break it up this way they probably don't - they only need to communicate with any site in the TLD and the people who have taken responsibility for a delegated zone. Much smaller list to deal with. The zone admins will need to keep their own lists but those also should be managable. I'm batting 400. Everything wrong. :-( -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 19:11:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF4037B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from white.imgsrc.co.jp (ns.imgsrc.co.jp [210.226.20.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A16B143F93 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuriyama@imgsrc.co.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12487425F for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:11:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3F1425C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:11:55 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by black.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A761E4622 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:11:55 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:11:55 +0900 Message-ID: <7m7k7846c4.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030627012704.GA22213@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030626222736.GB18007@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7mbrwk48nm.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030627012704.GA22213@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 Subject: Re: DNS - Summary? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:11:57 -0000 At Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:27:04 -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > That also explains why you thought the site admin contacts and PGP > list thing was a good idea. I was afraid of it because I thought > it meant dnsadm@ had to keep the table for every site. If we break > it up this way they probably don't - they only need to communicate > with any site in the TLD and the people who have taken responsibility > for a delegated zone. Much smaller list to deal with. The zone > admins will need to keep their own lists but those also should be > managable. I don't think every country should should maintain their CC domain space. If that country requires to maintain too much sites, delegation seems good way. But if they has only one ftp and one cvsup mirrors, passing this to dnsadm@FreeBSD.org would reduce unstability of our DNS (just IMHO). We need to update mirror site listing of the Handbook and need to know that change request is authorized or not. To achieve this, at least CC DNS operator's PGP key list is required. And, as described (4) in your mail, we need to maintain {ftp,cvsup,www}*.FreeBSD.org name list to point somewhere. Change request of that information should be signed, shouldn't be? -- Jun Kuriyama // IMG SRC, Inc. // FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 19:16:09 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9F437B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F5743FCB for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5R2G7br023535 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5R2G7I5023534 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:16:07 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030627021607.GB22213@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Next step... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:16:09 -0000 I think the next step is to document who dnsadm@ should talk to and how, if you still want a concrete documented thing. I can write it up if it's still needed. If I do it, I think: - From the discussion the site-contact and PGP key approach is now managable (sorry everyone) for things in the TLD. - Same thing for communicating with the people managing the delegated zones. If I'm wrong about those let me know but it seemed that's what we thought was best. There is only one other thing dnsadm@ would need to handle that I can think of and that's the request for a delegation. Is there anyone I could talk to about that to get a feel for what has happened in the past? Or does dnsadm@ already have their procedures for that well established and we don't need to discuss that? Did I miss any forms of communicating they need to do or questions they would need to answer? Since it's new - do we need to discuss how the www/cvsup/ftp sites in the TLD are decided on? Jun said the current set stays which makes perfect sense but do we need to discuss what happens as time goes on? -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 19:35:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE6737B401 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C6443FBF for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5R2Zebr023860; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5R2ZZL5023859; Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:35:35 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Jun Kuriyama Message-ID: <20030627023535.GC22213@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030626222736.GB18007@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7mbrwk48nm.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> <20030627012704.GA22213@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <7m7k7846c4.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7m7k7846c4.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DNS - Summary? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:35:42 -0000 On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 11:11:55AM +0900, Jun Kuriyama wrote: > I don't think every country should should maintain their CC domain > space. If that country requires to maintain too much sites, > delegation seems good way. But if they has only one ftp and one cvsup > mirrors, passing this to dnsadm@FreeBSD.org would reduce unstability > of our DNS (just IMHO). The only wrinkle I can think of here is who would then decide if a new site should come or go, or check up on a site in that zone if a random net user complains the site vanished. The options I can think of: 1) dnsadm@ (my guess is they don't want it but I can't ask). 2) the first entity that appears inside a new CC becomes the zone's administrative contact but dnsadm@ handles the nameservice on their behalf. 3) Someone volunteers to perform this role for any CC that can't handle their own DNS. They become the zone contact but (unless this volunteer can also supply their own DNS server too) they handle the actual updates by asking dnsadm@ to do it. 4) As someone else suggested - we recruit existing admins of delegated zones to handle the new CC in addition to their own. I'm sure there are more options... The easiest is probably (4). They also would be "entering" by having noticed there is no existing admin structure for their country code, and taking the next step described in the manual which is send mail to hubs@. Whoever is responsible for taking care of their email will need to fit into this somewhere. You make the most sense because they probably needed access to ftp-master. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 05:16:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 440BC37B404 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FB743FD7 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:16:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5RCGZbr001770 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5RCGZDT001769 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:16:35 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030627121635.GA1606@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Mirror Site Coordinator? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:16:37 -0000 I have suggested this in the past and it met with a variety of opinions. I'm going to try it one more time to see if the recent developments in the DNS chat have shifted opinions around. Having thought about it briefly all of the little "wrinkles" I can dream up myself that would be caused by CC based hosts existing in the FreeBSD.org namespace BUT do not run their own delegated DNS infrastructure get handled very neatly and cleanly if there is what I'll call a Mirror Site Coordinator. It also would solve other new issues (e.g. who amongst all the mirror sites should be in the TLD). I don't want to do an entire draft based on this idea before I ask if anyone would strongly object to there being a Mirror Site Coordinator. Exactly what that is (it could range anywhere from one person to all of hubs@) we can discuss later after we decide on the job description. If you are strongly against there being such a position speak now please. If there nobody says anything or if there seems to be a mix of opinions from the discussion that results I'll go ahead with a small proposal based on this and post it Monday. It basically addresses the issues that came up in the last two or three messages sent to the list. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 08:57:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F1537B401 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gaultopia.org (yttrium.4ph.com [66.197.0.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B0D43FB1 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:57:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from e@gaultopia.org) Received: (qmail 21522 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2003 15:57:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO www.gaultopia.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 27 Jun 2003 15:57:56 -0000 Received: from 152.163.190.1 (SquirrelMail authenticated user eng) by www.gaultopia.org with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32351.152.163.190.1.1056729476.squirrel@www.gaultopia.org> In-Reply-To: <20030627121635.GA1606@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030627121635.GA1606@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:57:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Erik Gault" To: "Ken Smith" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.0 [CVS] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Coordinator? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:57:59 -0000 I think having a Mirror Coordinator could be a great idea depending on what it is they do. My suggestion would be their duties go something like: 1) Keep familiar with the overall state of the mirrors, the list of official mirrors and basic data about them (location, connectivity, do they carry things besides freebsd), and maintain a list of contact information for all the mirror operators. Act as the contact point for any mirror related questions or problems. 2) Create and maintain web pages with mirror statistics. Providing some example scripts for collecting basic statistics (traffic levels, number of ftpd/cvsupd processes running, number of ISO downloads) and encouraging the mirror operators to use them and provide them at a standard url for collection could go a long way. I think this is very important. The releng people will be interested to get a better idea of distribution and numbers they can use in little marketing snippets, mirror operators will be able to see how they compare to other mirrors, and people considering starting a new mirror will be able to get a real feel for what they can expect in their region. See http://ftp2.freebsd.org/etc/ and http://cvsup2.freebsd.org/stats/ for simple examples of what I'm talking about. Doesn't need to be anything involving imaginary 17th-degree calculus, just some basic trend data that gives a clear picture of how busy the mirror is (I realize many mirrors offer lots of collections in addition to freebsd, but I don't think that's a difficult problem to get around as far as providing meaningful stats). 3) Approve/deny requests for new "official" mirrors. Most of the time people offering to become a new mirror send an email to hubs@ explaining their connectivity and server and ending with something along the lines of, "would this be useful?" The Mirror Coordinator would actually be able to give them an educated answer to that question: "yes, a new US mirror on that AS would be useful", or "no thank you, there are already several very lightly loaded mirrors in that same country and another one will probably serve little purpose". The dnsadm's for the various cc's will know that requests for names for new official mirrors will only come from the Mirror Coordinator already approved. 4) Maintain the handbook sections and any other official documentation pertaining to mirrors: list of official mirrors, how to become one, etc. I think this would be useful, easy to understand, doesn't complicate any existing processes, and doesn't step on anyone's toes. Erik Ken Smith said: > > I have suggested this in the past and it met with a variety of > opinions. I'm going to try it one more time to see if the recent > developments in the DNS chat have shifted opinions around. > > Having thought about it briefly all of the little "wrinkles" I > can dream up myself that would be caused by CC based hosts > existing in the FreeBSD.org namespace BUT do not run their own > delegated DNS infrastructure get handled very neatly and cleanly > if there is what I'll call a Mirror Site Coordinator. It also > would solve other new issues (e.g. who amongst all the mirror > sites should be in the TLD). > > I don't want to do an entire draft based on this idea before I > ask if anyone would strongly object to there being a Mirror Site > Coordinator. Exactly what that is (it could range anywhere from > one person to all of hubs@) we can discuss later after we decide > on the job description. > > If you are strongly against there being such a position speak now > please. If there nobody says anything or if there seems to be a > mix of opinions from the discussion that results I'll go ahead with > a small proposal based on this and post it Monday. It basically > addresses the issues that came up in the last two or three messages > sent to the list. > > -- > Ken Smith > - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu > there, funny things are everywhere. | > - Theodore Geisel | > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hubs > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hubs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 09:57:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7185637B401 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E9243F93 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:56:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5RGuvbr008480; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5RGuv3p008479; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:56:57 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Erik Gault Message-ID: <20030627165657.GL4637@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030627121635.GA1606@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <32351.152.163.190.1.1056729476.squirrel@www.gaultopia.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <32351.152.163.190.1.1056729476.squirrel@www.gaultopia.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Coordinator? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:57:00 -0000 On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 11:57:56AM -0400, Erik Gault wrote: > 3) Approve/deny requests for new "official" mirrors. Most of the time > people offering to become a new mirror send an email to hubs@ explaining > their connectivity and server and ending with something along the lines > of, "would this be useful?" The Mirror Coordinator would actually be able > to give them an educated answer to that question: "yes, a new US mirror on > that AS would be useful", or "no thank you, there are already several very > lightly loaded mirrors in that same country and another one will probably > serve little purpose". The dnsadm's for the various cc's will know that > requests for names for new official mirrors will only come from the Mirror > Coordinator already approved. Just a quick "For what it's worth". Based on the discussion that got us this far I thought we decided that was something the local admins would decide on themselves. I thought it was one of the perks of taking on being a local admin. :-) The rest of Erik's thoughts were great. I'm not saying this thought is bad but I did think it was one of the things that was brought up as being why delegation was a good thing. IMO we shouldn't discuss this point too much now - I think it could be one of the "hot topics". If I do the draft the first pass will say that if you're going to take on the DNS for your country code then you also take on the responsibility of the ftp*.CC.freebsd.org site coordination including deciding on how many, etc. You'd need to report it to the Mirror Coordinator but only because one of the things that job would involve is, as Erik said, maintaining the mirror site list on the Web site, hopefully making sure that what's in /stand/sysinstall isn't too far out of line with reality, etc. We can discuss the details next week but I thought this model was what the previous discussion led to. The Mirror Site Coordinator would be who does the above tasks for zones that do not want to (or can't) handle DNS for themselves, which is one of the reasons I wanted to re-try this idea of having a Mirror Site Coordinator. It's also why I keep trying to stress Coordinator and not Manager. I'm trying to keep flexibility for the zones that do wind up delegated. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 18:53:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EED737B401 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B46643FD7 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:53:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h5S1rMbr019798 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h5S1rMwv019797 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:53:22 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030628015322.GA19335@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: DNS Admin Attempt #2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:53:24 -0000 Didn't take me as long to write up as I thought it would... A lot of this is general how-coordination-works and does not need to be sent to dnsadm@ as guidelines on how they operate (that was what Jun said he wanted). But it describes the whole picture and making sure the whole picture makes sense to hubs@ is important... I took my best shot at it based on this week's discussions. Looking on the bright side it can't possibly be worse than my first attempt. :-) As before - minor editing issues straight to me, discussion to the list please. Thanks everyone. DNS Administration Guide V0.1 ============================= Zone Administrators ------------------- The FreeBSD.org DNS namespace will be divided up by Country Code, for example "us.freebsd.org" for the United States. All DNS issues for any zone will be handled by the Administrators for that zone. Addition of new mirror sites, removal of mirror sites, and modification of existing mirror sites are done by these zone administrators. It is the decision of these administrators how many mirror sites are appropriate, etc. Other non-mirror-site information added to the DNS are at the discretion of these administrators. To keep things simple for end-users these administrators must be reachable as "hostmaster@CC.freebsd.org". Delegation ---------- If any given country has a local infrastructure with the interest and ability to handle it the DNS zone for that country can be delegated to them. With the delegation comes responsibility for: - Zone Administrator duties as described above. - DNS server infrastructure. - email support minimally capable of handling the "hostmaster@CC.freebsd.org" requirement. Zones with a small number of Official Mirror Sites and no special local DNS needs are encouraged to not request delegation. Too much delegation may have an impact on overall freebsd.org DNS stability. If the situation warrants it countries can group together in regions and have their DNS/email infrastructure use the same set of servers. At the discretion of the Mirror Site Coordinator (next section) several countries may be administered by one Zone Administrator. The CC.freebsd.org DNS zones for all countries participating in that larger "regional unit" will be delegated to the one Zone Administrator, and the "hostmaster@CC.freebsd.org" email for all those countries should flow to that Zone Administrator. As an example if all of Europe wanted to function as one large region all CC.freebsd.org zones for all the countries involved could be delegated to one Zone Administrator. This sort of situation is not expected, the preferred setup would be for the zones to not be delegated. But if the participants felt a strong enough need to form a larger region like this it would at least be considered. n Mirror Site Coordinator ----------------------- The Mirror Site Coordinator will be: 1)it is best if s/he is a Zone Administrator of a delegated zone (e.g. us.freebsd.org) 2)handle Zone Administrator duties as described above for their zone plus all zones that are not delegated 3)handle general coordination of the entire Mirror system, including the mirror systems in the TLD The reason for (1) is that they should have all the support to be Mirror Coordinator if they are functioning in this role. DNS updates for non-delegated zones will be handled by sending the request to dnsadm@ and that communication channel should be well established for someone handling a delegated zone already. The request email flow (hostmaster@CC.freebsd.org) for the non-delegated zones can follow the exact same pathway as the email for their delegated zone (e.g. it is a simple email configuration to have email sent to "hostmaster@us.freebsd.org" follow the exact same path as "hostmaster@hr.freebsd.org" and reach the correct person(s)). And, as importantly, incoming requests for delegation will be handled by this person. Functioning in this role already themselves they can better evaluate the need for delegation, the ability of the requestors to handle it, and help make the transition as smooth as possible. Note that the us.freebsd.org system above is an example. It could just as easily be jp.freebsd.org. If the Mirror Site Coordinator duties need to move from the person who takes care of us.freebsd.org to the person who takes care of jp.freebsd.org the transition should be relatively easy to accomplish - it is just DNS reconfigurations. The change should be transparent to end users, no documentation changes required, etc. In addition to handling requests as above the Mirror Site Coordinator will be responsible for handling: - requests that arrive on hubs@ (described in next section) - keeping current list of all mirror sites so they can be provided to re@ at Release Time, Web documentation can be kept up to date, and /stand/sysinstall can be adjusted - maintain lists of mirror sites in the TLD, presumably consulting with others who can advise - handle fallout if a delegated zone falls apart Flow of Request Email --------------------- The documentation tells users to send email to "hostmaster@CC.freebsd.org" when making mirror site offers. The cases are: - CC.freebsd.org is delegated, those Zone Administrators handle the request themselves sending a note to the Mirror Site Coordinator if it results in a change so documentation can be kept up to date. - CC.freebsd.org is not delegated, email will wind up going to Mirror Site Coordinator. S/he decides if another mirror site is warranted, guides them through becoming a mirror (requests they be added to a master site's ACL's, etc) and then sends request to dnsadm@ if this is a site addition. If it's a complaint investigate and deal with it. Documentation says if sending email to "hostmaster@CC.freebsd.org" yields no results or if CC.freebsd.org does not exist yet send email to hubs@. Mirror System Coordinator handles all DNS related email on hubs@. - If CC.freebsd.org is delegated forward the request to "hostmaster@CC.freebsd.org" and Zone Administrators should keep Mirror Site Coordinator in cc of messages. User was probably mistaken sending to hubs@ but this could be a case of a delegated zone falling apart, deal with it if yes. - If CC.freebsd.org is not delegated or does not exist handle just like any other request Mirror Site Coordinator would handle. If new CC-based zone is a result adjust DNS/email so "hostmaster@CC.freebsd.org" will work for new zone (typically don't offer delegation at this point). If dnsadm@ ever receives email related to mirror sites they can bounce it to Mirror Site Coordinator who will handle as above. Email Security -------------- All DNS requests should be made with PGP signed email. Zone Administrators should obtain PGP keys from the site contacts (note Mirror Site Coordinator functions as a Zone Administrator). Site contacts may only request changes for their site. Zone Administrators have direct control over the DNS for their zone and no email communication is required. Mirror Site Coordinator maintains PGP signatures for all Zone Administrators and shares that with dnsadm@. The vast majority of communication with dnsadm@ will be from Mirror Site Coordinator. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel |