From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 13 11:17:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F1237B401 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wall.polstra.com (wall-gw.polstra.com [206.213.73.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8B243F3F for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:17:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from strings.polstra.com (strings.polstra.com [206.213.73.20]) by wall.polstra.com (8.12.3p2/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6DIHdO9036097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:17:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@strings.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by strings.polstra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h6DIHcYn060803; Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200307131817.h6DIHcYn060803@strings.polstra.com> To: hubs@freebsd.org From: John Polstra In-Reply-To: <3F0EABA5.18694.1A30CE3E@localhost> References: <3F0EABA5.18694.1A30CE3E@localhost> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.500000, version=0.11.2 Subject: Re: cvsupd : TreeComp failed: Network write failure: Connection closed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:17:54 -0000 In article <3F0EABA5.18694.1A30CE3E@localhost>, Dan Langille wrote: > I am seeing this message frequently in /var/log/cvsupd.log on > cvsup.nz.freebsd.org but I don't know what it causing it: > > Jun 14 00:10:10 cvsup cvsupd[60286]: +801 user@example.org > [SNAP_16_1e/17.0] > Jun 14 00:24:44 cvsup cvsupd[60286]: =801 [2968Kin+1243Kout] src- > all/cvs > cvsup cvsupd[60286]: -801 [2968Kin+1243Kout] TreeComp failed: Network > write failure: Connection closed > > It does not occur on all client connections, but regularly enough for > me to be concerned. Any ideas? If the user kills his cvsup run, either with the GUI's "stop" button or with ^C, this is often what you'll see in the server logs. I have also seen this when there are network problems. It can sometimes be fixed on the client side by lowering the MTU. I have seen it especially often in Australia, New Zealand, and parts of Asia. I think it has something to do with lame DSL ISPs who think it's OK to break path MTU discovery by filtering ICMP messages. John -- John Polstra John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Two buttocks cannot avoid friction." -- Malawi saying From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 14 00:30:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4B137B405 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsd.provector.pl (bsd.provector.gorzow.pl [217.96.84.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7726D43F93 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:30:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mariusz@provector.pl) Received: from bsd.provector.pl (mariusz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bsd.provector.pl (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6E7SWHF062506; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:28:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mariusz@provector.pl) Received: from localhost (mariusz@localhost)h6E7SUik062503; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:28:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mariusz@provector.pl) X-Authentication-Warning: bsd.provector.pl: mariusz owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:28:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Mariusz To: John Polstra In-Reply-To: <200307131817.h6DIHcYn060803@strings.polstra.com> Message-ID: <20030714092042.O62327@bsd.provector.pl> References: <3F0EABA5.18694.1A30CE3E@localhost> <200307131817.h6DIHcYn060803@strings.polstra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd 5.1 & cvsup-mirror X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:30:23 -0000 Hi I install new freebsd5.1 and make from ports cvsup-mirror in default config. And ... from cvsup.log CVSup update begins at 2003-07-14 09:10:00 Updating from cvsup.freebsd.org Connected to cvsup.freebsd.org Updating collection cvs-all/cvs Updating collection gnats/current Updating collection www/current Updating collection mail-archive/current Updating collection distrib/self Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/README": No such file or directory Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/cvs-all/list.cvs": No such file or directory Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/cvs-all/releases": No such file or directory Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/cvsroot-all/list.cvs": No such file or directory Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/cvsroot-all/releases": No such file or directory Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/cvsroot-common/list.cvs": No such file or directory [..cut..] Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/www/list.cvs": No such file or directory Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/www/releases": No such file or directory Finished successfully CVSup update ends at 2003-07-14 09:11:13 And # cvsup test Connected to 127.0.0.1 Server message: Unknown collection "src-all" Server message: Unknown collection "src-crypto" Server message: Unknown collection "src-secure" Server message: Unknown collection "ports-all" Skipping collection src-all/cvs Skipping collection src-crypto/cvs Skipping collection src-secure/cvs Skipping collection ports-all/cvs Finished successfully Whats is wrong ? All is default make from ports and start. M. From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 14 09:32:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0246637B401 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wall.polstra.com (wall-gw.polstra.com [206.213.73.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B960543F85 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@polstra.com) Received: from strings.polstra.com (strings.polstra.com [206.213.73.20]) by wall.polstra.com (8.12.3p2/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6EGW7O9044038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:32:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@strings.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by strings.polstra.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h6EGW68L074796; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200307141632.h6EGW68L074796@strings.polstra.com> To: hubs@freebsd.org From: John Polstra In-Reply-To: <20030714092042.O62327@bsd.provector.pl> References: <3F0EABA5.18694.1A30CE3E@localhost> <200307131817.h6DIHcYn060803@strings.polstra.com> <20030714092042.O62327@bsd.provector.pl> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.004134, version=0.11.2 Subject: Re: freebsd 5.1 & cvsup-mirror X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:32:10 -0000 In article <20030714092042.O62327@bsd.provector.pl>, Mariusz wrote: > > I install new freebsd5.1 and make from ports cvsup-mirror in default > config. > > And ... > > from cvsup.log > > CVSup update begins at 2003-07-14 09:10:00 > Updating from cvsup.freebsd.org > Connected to cvsup.freebsd.org > Updating collection cvs-all/cvs > Updating collection gnats/current > Updating collection www/current > Updating collection mail-archive/current > Updating collection distrib/self > Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/README": No such file or > directory > Server warning: Cannot open "/home/ncvs/sup/cvs-all/list.cvs": No such > file or directory [...] This looks like it is caused by a problem on the server. Please try using a different server than cvsup.freebsd.org. You can do that by editing /usr/local/etc/cvsup/config.sh. Please let us know whether that fixes the problem or not. John -- John Polstra John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Two buttocks cannot avoid friction." -- Malawi saying From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 07:00:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5709C37B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961D243FB1 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:00:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6FE0Hbr012567 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FE0GBW012566 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:00:16 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:00:18 -0000 On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 01:33:32PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > There were no comments on the set of Mirror Site Requirements so I > will proceed with those unless someone(s) start to object. One person mentioned the discussion about mirror site requirements snuck by him because the subject line was a bit confusing. Sorry, that's another thing for me to note as part of organizing discussions. :-) The question he raised was whether requiring the packages as part of being a Tier-2 was necessary. Using the 5.1 release as an example what I proposed as the Tier-2 requirements was that they carry: releases/i386/5.1-RELEASE/ ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/ I don't think it's necessary for them to carry the -current packages. Is that a reasonable requirement? The reason I included the ports/ stuff was related to sysinstall - my understanding is that during an FTP based install sysinstall will go looking there when it wants to offer installing extra packages as part of the baseline install (well, a symlink in the -RELEASE dir takes it there :-). Is that correct? I consider an official mirror site being someplace we would like to have fully functional in this regard so that if a new user wants to add in extra packages sysinstall works as expected. To qualify as a Tier-2 they could also choose to not include the stuff needed to do the FTP-based installs, opting to only carry the ISO's instead. The goal was just to make sure a user led to this site would find "a complete set" for either an FTP based install or an ISO download. Thanks. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 07:25:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA6E237B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0196D43F3F for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:24:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6FEOubr013208 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FEOu9N013207 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:24:56 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030715142456.GB11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: New Site in the TLD (replacing ftp3.freebsd.org) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:25:02 -0000 I think I'm ready to deal with the disappearance of ftp3.freebsd.org now. It stopped carrying FreeBSD a while ago and at the time we just shifted it to point at the ISC site. We decided to start using us.freebsd.org for sites in the United States and the TLD will be the "best" of the sites regardless of where they are. We're not ready to create us.freebsd.org yet but we did get started on the infrastructure for that. My thought was that we would try to make sure that only Tier-1 sites land in the TLD. That way during releases re@ could tell the beta testers (people interested in the "pre-Release Builds") that they would be best off checking sites in the TLD first, but when it comes to the full-blown release the Release Announcement would not make that sort of distinction. So, if that's acceptable to everyone the criteria for sites in the TLD would be something along the lines of: - Tier-1 site, bits posted to ftp-master wind up copied to this site within a day, two days max - Allow reasonably large number of concurrent anonymous connects - Good network connectivity on a global scale (e.g. not at the end of a "small pipe" leading into their country and a "fat pipe" inside their country - both pipes should be fat :-). If you would like to nominate a site please send a message to me. I want to apologize in advance in case there are multiple nominations. By the nature of this the decision will wind up based somewhat on the various sites' "qualifications". But in the end there may be several sites all equally qualified and I'm gonna wind up flipping coins or something along those lines... Please don't be offended if you nominate your site and a different one gets chosen. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 07:41:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD03B37B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D3C843F93 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6FEfZbr013638 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FEfZP2013637 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:41:35 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030715144135.GE11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030715142456.GB11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030715142456.GB11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: New Site in the TLD (replacing ftp3.freebsd.org) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:41:37 -0000 Sorry, I should have been a tiny bit more specific. Jun had suggested we not *move* sites from the TLD to us.freebsd.org when it's ready, we will *copy* them. We'll be leaving the current set of TLD sites in place for now, maybe later we can come up with procedures for periodically re-evaluating which sites are there. The goal for now is to just replace ftp3.freebsd.org. At the moment freebsd.isc.org is doing triple-duty (half of ftp.freebsd.org, plus both ftp3.freebsd.org and ftp4.freebsd.org). -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 07:49:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DADFB37B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivoti.terra.com.br (ivoti.terra.com.br [200.176.3.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D8B43F75 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: from pontal.terra.com.br (pontal.terra.com.br [200.176.3.37]) by ivoti.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC7C479CC6F; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:49:24 -0300 (BRT) Received: from jonny.eng.br (RJ255182.user.veloxzone.com.br [200.165.255.182]) (authenticated user dioni21) by pontal.terra.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92EDE2E00AE; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:49:23 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:49:35 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_Carlos_Mendes_Lu=EDs?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: pt-br, en-us, en, pt MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ken Smith References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> In-Reply-To: <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:49:28 -0000 Hi, Ken Smith wrote: > On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 01:33:32PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > > >>There were no comments on the set of Mirror Site Requirements so I >>will proceed with those unless someone(s) start to object. > > One person mentioned the discussion about mirror site requirements > snuck by him because the subject line was a bit confusing. Sorry, > that's another thing for me to note as part of organizing discussions. :-) > > The question he raised was whether requiring the packages as part > of being a Tier-2 was necessary. Using the 5.1 release as an example > what I proposed as the Tier-2 requirements was that they carry: > > releases/i386/5.1-RELEASE/ > ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/ > > I don't think it's necessary for them to carry the -current packages. You mean that only the packages from the lastest stable release is needed at tier-2, right? Considering the -packages growth, I don't think we can force a tier-2 to carry more than one set... > Is that a reasonable requirement? The reason I included the ports/ > stuff was related to sysinstall - my understanding is that during an > FTP based install sysinstall will go looking there when it wants to > offer installing extra packages as part of the baseline install (well, > a symlink in the -RELEASE dir takes it there :-). Is that correct? I > consider an official mirror site being someplace we would like to have > fully functional in this regard so that if a new user wants to add in > extra packages sysinstall works as expected. Ok. > To qualify as a Tier-2 they could also choose to not include the stuff > needed to do the FTP-based installs, opting to only carry the ISO's > instead. The goal was just to make sure a user led to this site would > find "a complete set" for either an FTP based install or an ISO download. Wouldn't this break the previous requirement? At least some kind of distinction should be made to avoid these sites in the sysinstall program. Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís - Networking Engineer - jonny@jonny.eng.br -- "the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do." -- Samuel P. Huntington From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 08:15:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F51037B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from burka.carrier.kiev.ua (burka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.193.193.107]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4270743F93 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netch@lucky.net) Received: from netch@localhost [127.0.0.1] (netch@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by burka.carrier.kiev.ua with ESMTP id h6FFF96K062055; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:15:10 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch@burka.carrier.kiev.ua) Received: (from netch@localhost) by burka.carrier.kiev.ua (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h6FFF7mC062051; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:15:07 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:15:07 +0300 From: Valentin Nechayev To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030715151507.GF43099@lucky.net> References: <20030703230739.GA1467@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030710010301.GA8072@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030710010301.GA8072@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-42: On X-Verify-Sender: verified cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: article.sgml - Formalize Requirements? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: netch@lucky.net List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:15:26 -0000 Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 21:03:01, kensmith wrote about "Re: article.sgml - Formalize Requirements?": > Requirements of Tier-1 Mirror Sites > ----------------------------------- > 4) IF this site allows sync's from Tier-2 sites then: If this site doesn't allow sync from tier-2 sites, what is its purpose? (Below it is said that tier-2 site may sync from ftp-master, may from other.) Well, what "tier-1" and "tier-2" means here? For now I see that if you have formalizations for these terms, they are non-obvious. > 2) Site admin on hubs@ as well as mirror-announce@. > 3) Carry everything. What is reason for carrying everything? E.g. I don't know any real need for architectures other than i386 in our region (Ukraine). > Requirements of Tier-2 Mirror Sites > ----------------------------------- > 1) Sync from an ftp-master* site or a Tier-1 site, preferrably a > Tier-1. Well, ftp-master* are other than Tier-1? What's the difference between Tier-1 mirror and regional ftp-master? -netch- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 08:42:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A09BE37B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA26D43F93 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:42:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6FFgbbr015215; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FFgbuA015214; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:42:37 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Valentin Nechayev Message-ID: <20030715154237.GL11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030703230739.GA1467@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030710010301.GA8072@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715151507.GF43099@lucky.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030715151507.GF43099@lucky.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: article.sgml - Formalize Requirements? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:42:40 -0000 On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 06:15:07PM +0300, Valentin Nechayev wrote: > Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 21:03:01, kensmith wrote about "Re: article.sgml - Formalize Requirements?": > > > Requirements of Tier-1 Mirror Sites > > ----------------------------------- > > > 4) IF this site allows sync's from Tier-2 sites then: > > If this site doesn't allow sync from tier-2 sites, what is its purpose? > (Below it is said that tier-2 site may sync from ftp-master, may from other.) > Well, what "tier-1" and "tier-2" means here? > For now I see that if you have formalizations for these terms, they are > non-obvious. The distinction would be how long after bits get posted to ftp-master they can be expected to be on this machine. A Tier-1 site would wind up having them before a Tier-2 site for the most part. Exactly how long it takes the bits to appear on a site after they get posted to ftp-master is of interest to re@ during the beta cycles because they'd like their beta testers to have as much time as possible to test/debug. My thought was that they could list the Tier-1 sites in their announcements to the beta testers, saying that this set of machines is where the bits are most likely to appear first. I didn't want to *require* that a Tier-1 site be willing to have Tier-2 sites feeding from it because this would require some extra administrative overhead. This also is why it would be good if Tier-1 sites carry "everything", so that the beta testers are reasonably sure the site would have whatever they're testing. > > 2) Site admin on hubs@ as well as mirror-announce@. > > 3) Carry everything. > > What is reason for carrying everything? > E.g. I don't know any real need for architectures other than i386 > in our region (Ukraine). Answered above I think, let us know if it's not clear. I do think we need to come up with a reasonable definition of "everything", that is kind of an open issue. IMO we should only have re@ make a distinction between Tier-1's and Tier-2's as part of the *beta* announcements and they should not make any such distinction for the release announcements. > > Requirements of Tier-2 Mirror Sites > > ----------------------------------- > > > 1) Sync from an ftp-master* site or a Tier-1 site, preferrably a > > Tier-1. > > Well, ftp-master* are other than Tier-1? What's the difference > between Tier-1 mirror and regional ftp-master? Yes, ftp-master* would probably be considered Tier-0, and I think we should consider the regional ftp-masters as Tier-0 (where ftp-masters only allow connects from Official Mirror Sites and nothing else, if they allow connects from other sites then they're a Tier-1). -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 08:53:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1572E37B408 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5130B43FA3 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:53:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6FFr2br015464; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FFr2YW015463; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:02 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: =?unknown-8bit?Q?Jo=E3o_Carlos_Mendes_Lu=EDs?= Message-ID: <20030715155302.GM11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:53:06 -0000 On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 11:49:35AM -0300, Joo Carlos Mendes Lus wrote: > Wouldn't this break the previous requirement? At least some kind > of distinction should be made to avoid these sites in the sysinstall > program. Very good point, that one slipped my notice. Allowing for "ISO's only" came to mind when I was thinking about listing the site on the Web pages so people would check there by clicking on the link but I wasn't thinking sysinstall at that point... Hmm, Tier-3? -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 10:09:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6244037B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4DE43F75 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6FH90br017219; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FH90nc017218; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:09:00 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: =?unknown-8bit?Q?Jo=E3o_Carlos_Mendes_Lu=EDs?= Message-ID: <20030715170900.GR11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:09:03 -0000 On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 11:49:35AM -0300, Joo Carlos Mendes Lus wrote: > >On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 01:33:32PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > >The question he raised was whether requiring the packages as part > >of being a Tier-2 was necessary. Using the 5.1 release as an example > >what I proposed as the Tier-2 requirements was that they carry: > > > > releases/i386/5.1-RELEASE/ > > ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/ > > > >I don't think it's necessary for them to carry the -current packages. > > You mean that only the packages from the lastest stable release is > needed at tier-2, right? Considering the -packages growth, I don't > think we can force a tier-2 to carry more than one set... Sorry - yes. I'm having problems mapping directory names into something useful for this conversation. They should carry: ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/ and should not be *required* to carry: ports/i386/packages-5-current/ -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 13:33:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5A137B405 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1BF443FBF for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: by coe.ufrj.br (Postfix, from userid 2000) id 7B16ED902C; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:33:33 -0300 (BRT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:33:33 -0300 To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030715203333.GA25714@roma.coe.ufrj.br> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715170900.GR11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20030715170900.GR11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Quote: What are you looking for in my mail headers ? X-Operating-System: FreeBSD X-URL: http://www.jonny.eng.br From: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:33:42 -0000 Somebody told me that Ken Smith said: > On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 11:49:35AM -0300, Joo Carlos Mendes Lus wrote: > > >On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 01:33:32PM -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > > >The question he raised was whether requiring the packages as part > > >of being a Tier-2 was necessary. Using the 5.1 release as an example > > >what I proposed as the Tier-2 requirements was that they carry: > > > > > > releases/i386/5.1-RELEASE/ > > > ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/ > > > > > >I don't think it's necessary for them to carry the -current packages. > > > > You mean that only the packages from the lastest stable release is > > needed at tier-2, right? Considering the -packages growth, I don't > > think we can force a tier-2 to carry more than one set... > > Sorry - yes. I'm having problems mapping directory names into something > useful for this conversation. They should carry: > > ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/ > > and should not be *required* to carry: > > ports/i386/packages-5-current/ Just to be clear: We have now 3 "main" distributions: 4.8-RELEASE, 5.1-RELEASE and 5-current. Do you mean Tier-2 should carry both 4.8 and 5.1, only 5.1 (the lastest release), or only 4.8 (the recommended release)? As I have stated before in private, I currently have only packages for 4.8-RELEASE, but have both ISOs and dists for 4.8 and 5.1-RELEASE. Is this ok? Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br Networking Engineer jonny@coe.ufrj.br From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 14:53:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2832E37B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 582AC43FB1 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:53:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6FLrRbr024244; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6FLrR4L024243; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:53:27 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-ID: <20030715215327.GB23859@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715170900.GR11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715203333.GA25714@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030715203333.GA25714@roma.coe.ufrj.br> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:53:30 -0000 On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 05:33:33PM -0300, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > Just to be clear: We have now 3 "main" distributions: 4.8-RELEASE, > 5.1-RELEASE and 5-current. Do you mean Tier-2 should carry both 4.8 > and 5.1, only 5.1 (the lastest release), or only 4.8 (the recommended > release)? My preference would be 4.8-RELEASE and 5.1-RELEASE required, 5-current not required. Please keep in mind these are just suggestions, as before if I'm wrong and these requirements are too strict I'm open to alternative suggestions. > As I have stated before in private, I currently have only packages > for 4.8-RELEASE, but have both ISOs and dists for 4.8 and 5.1-RELEASE. > Is this ok? I'm also very uncomfortable with "retroactively" establishing new rules. I don't mind applying the new rules "strictly" to new Mirror Site offers and "less-strictly" to existing Mirror Sites if that seems fair. You have all been contributing to the FreeBSD Project and I don't want it to ever seem like anyone is being ungrateful for that. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 16:23:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE9D37B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luna.rtfmconsult.com (luna.rtfmconsult.com [202.83.72.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B4343F3F for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:23:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@rtfmconsult.com) Received: by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix, from userid 42) id CAA9548E6F; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:23:49 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C230952D96; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:23:49 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:23:49 +1000 (EST) From: jason andrade To: Ken Smith In-Reply-To: <20030715215327.GB23859@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Message-ID: References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715203333.GA25714@roma.coe.ufrj.br> <20030715215327.GB23859@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:23:53 -0000 On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Ken Smith wrote: > I'm also very uncomfortable with "retroactively" establishing new rules. > I don't mind applying the new rules "strictly" to new Mirror Site offers > and "less-strictly" to existing Mirror Sites if that seems fair. You have > all been contributing to the FreeBSD Project and I don't want it to ever > seem like anyone is being ungrateful for that. i can see that it might be uncomfortable and much as i hate the thought of not being compliant and having to bring our mirror up to compliance to meet retrospective requirements - i think it is a worthwhile thing for the freebsd group/mirror project as a whole. it is *much* better for mirrors to maintain a base level of consistency as our research into mirror use here has shown that users are more likely to use mirrors when they have stability in the process. any loss of stability almost certainly leads to the majority defaulting back to their perceived master site: ftp.freebsd.org and it takes a while for them to switch back again (e.g build trust in the process again). so to address the point - if rules come about they are being developed in consultation with the community and should be consistently applied to all mirrors. regards, -jason From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 23:51:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A648537B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luna.rtfmconsult.com (luna.rtfmconsult.com [202.83.72.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0357143FAF for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:51:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@rtfmconsult.com) Received: by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix, from userid 42) id 64BFA48E6F; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:51:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2FB52D96 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:51:45 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:51:45 +1000 (EST) From: jason andrade To: hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: secondary master server down ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:51:47 -0000 is there a problem with ftp-master.freebsd.cz ? rsync: failed to connect to ftp-master.freebsd.cz: Connection refused rsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at clientserver.c(83) regards, -jason From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 15 23:56:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 132F337B401 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from white.imgsrc.co.jp (ns.imgsrc.co.jp [210.226.20.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E646043F3F for ; Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuriyama@imgsrc.co.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF31743BA for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:56:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCE54381 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:56:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by black.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732BE1E460E for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:56:08 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:56:08 +0900 Message-ID: <7mznjf2c53.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 Subject: Re: secondary master server down ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:56:12 -0000 At Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:51:45 +1000 (EST), jason andrade wrote: > is there a problem with ftp-master.freebsd.cz ? > > rsync: failed to connect to ftp-master.freebsd.cz: Connection refused > rsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at clientserver.c(83) It seems ftp-master.cz was rebooted 5 minutes before. # And etc/rc.d/rsyncd.sh is not existed. :-( -- Jun Kuriyama // IMG SRC, Inc. // FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 05:58:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42BB37B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (kazi.fit.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53AC743F93 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:58:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@fit.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GCwp5C030031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:58:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id h6GCwpkX030030; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:58:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: kazi.fit.vutbr.cz: cejkar set sender to cejkar@fit.vutbr.cz using -f Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:58:51 +0200 From: Rudolf Cejka To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030716125851.GA28982@fit.vutbr.cz> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715155302.GM11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030715155302.GM11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:58:58 -0000 Ken Smith wrote (2003/07/15): > Hmm, Tier-3? It seems to me that it would lead to needless complitations. I think that it would be better to state, that Tier-1 sites have all and Tier-2 sites have anything, what site operators say themselves, for example releases, ISO images and packages just for latest i386 releases, or just all i386 ISO images - however it should be clearly stated somewwhat and somewhere (Handbook, finger message, FTP/Rsync welcome message, or so). -- Rudolf Cejka http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/~cejkar Brno University of Technology, Faculty of Information Technology Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 06:00:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB3937B404 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tcoip.com.br (erato.tco.net.br [200.220.254.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E8843F93 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:00:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@tcoip.com.br) Received: from tcoip.com.br ([10.0.2.6]) by mail.tcoip.com.br (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6GCxtj03050; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:59:56 -0300 Message-ID: <3F154C4A.5080807@tcoip.com.br> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:59:54 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030702 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, pt-br, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jason andrade References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715203333.GA25714@roma.coe.ufrj.br> <20030715215327.GB23859@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:00:23 -0000 jason andrade wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Ken Smith wrote: > > >>I'm also very uncomfortable with "retroactively" establishing new rules. >>I don't mind applying the new rules "strictly" to new Mirror Site offers >>and "less-strictly" to existing Mirror Sites if that seems fair. You have >>all been contributing to the FreeBSD Project and I don't want it to ever >>seem like anyone is being ungrateful for that. > > > i can see that it might be uncomfortable and much as i hate the thought of > not being compliant and having to bring our mirror up to compliance to > meet retrospective requirements - i think it is a worthwhile thing for the > freebsd group/mirror project as a whole. I was pipe in on this before, but decided to leave it alone. But since someone else *has* piped in, let me be on record agreeing with the sentiments above expressed. I'd regret not being able to keep with mirror compliance requirements, but I think it is worthwhile for the project as a whole, for pretty much the same reasons. > it is *much* better for mirrors to maintain a base level of consistency as > our research into mirror use here has shown that users are more likely to > use mirrors when they have stability in the process. any loss of stability > almost certainly leads to the majority defaulting back to their perceived > master site: ftp.freebsd.org and it takes a while for them to switch back > again (e.g build trust in the process again). > > so to address the point - if rules come about they are being developed in > consultation with the community and should be consistently applied to all > mirrors. OTOH, we'd better do a consultation to find out how many mirrors won't be able to keep up with the standards we set upon, because if lose too many mirrors, maybe it's better to rethink the standards. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Gerencia de Operacoes Divisao de Comunicacao de Dados Coordenacao de Seguranca VIVO Centro Oeste Norte Fones: 55-61-313-7654/Cel: 55-61-9618-0904 E-mail: Daniel.Capo@tco.net.br Daniel.Sobral@tcoip.com.br dcs@tcoip.com.br Outros: dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@notorious.bsdconspiracy.net There once was a lady named Myrtle Who had an affair with a turtle. She had crabs, so they say, In a year and a day Which proved that that turtle was fertile. From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 06:12:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373D237B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (kazi.fit.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C92D643FBD for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:12:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@fit.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDCE5C031410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:12:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id h6GDCE1j031409; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:12:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: kazi.fit.vutbr.cz: cejkar set sender to cejkar@fit.vutbr.cz using -f Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:12:13 +0200 From: Rudolf Cejka To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Message-ID: <20030716131213.GA30208@fit.vutbr.cz> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715203333.GA25714@roma.coe.ufrj.br> <20030715215327.GB23859@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F154C4A.5080807@tcoip.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F154C4A.5080807@tcoip.com.br> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:12:18 -0000 Daniel C. Sobral wrote (2003/07/16): > OTOH, we'd better do a consultation to find out how many mirrors won't > be able to keep up with the standards we set upon, because if lose too > many mirrors, maybe it's better to rethink the standards. I hope the goal is not to reduce the number of mirrors. The goal would be just to have clearer core of mirrors, which are sufficiently reliable and which have everything. The others would stay, as they are, however it should be documented, what they have and what they have not. ??? -- Rudolf Cejka http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/~cejkar Brno University of Technology, Faculty of Information Technology Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 06:26:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5535E37B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (kazi.fit.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A08D43F75 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@fit.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6GDQP5C032363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:26:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.fit.vutbr.cz (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id h6GDQNrE032354; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:26:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Authentication-Warning: kazi.fit.vutbr.cz: cejkar set sender to cejkar@fit.vutbr.cz using -f Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:26:23 +0200 From: Rudolf Cejka To: jason andrade Message-ID: <20030716132623.GB30208@fit.vutbr.cz> References: <7mznjf2c53.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <7mznjf2c53.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: secondary master server down ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:26:28 -0000 > > is there a problem with ftp-master.freebsd.cz ? Hello, I'm sorry, yes, there were problem with UPS :o( At the night... Sounds like from electric welding machine... Now there is a new UPS and the old went to the basket=08=08=08=08=08=08reclamation... Jun Kuriyama wrote (2003/07/16): > # And etc/rc.d/rsyncd.sh is not existed. :-( I run it from inetd: -- /etc/inetd.conf rsync stream tcp nowait root /usr/local/bin/rsyncd.sh rsyncd.sh -- /usr/local/bin/rsyncd.sh #!/bin/sh ulimit -c 0 exec /usr/local/bin/rsyncd --daemon "$@" -- --=20 Rudolf Cejka http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/~cejkar Brno University of Technology, Faculty of Information Technology Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 06:58:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F0437B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1026A43F3F for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:58:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: by coe.ufrj.br (Postfix, from userid 2000) id 06434D9034; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:58:42 -0300 (BRT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:58:41 -0300 To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030716135841.GA35857@roma.coe.ufrj.br> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030715140016.GA11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715155302.GM11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20030715155302.GM11840@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Quote: What are you looking for in my mail headers ? X-Operating-System: FreeBSD X-URL: http://www.jonny.eng.br From: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:58:46 -0000 Somebody told me that Ken Smith said: > On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 11:49:35AM -0300, Joo Carlos Mendes Lus wrote: > > > Wouldn't this break the previous requirement? At least some kind > > of distinction should be made to avoid these sites in the sysinstall > > program. > > Very good point, that one slipped my notice. Allowing for "ISO's only" > came to mind when I was thinking about listing the site on the Web pages > so people would check there by clicking on the link but I wasn't thinking > sysinstall at that point... > > Hmm, Tier-3? It's getting too complicated. I'd really prefer to find a solution with bittorrent or emule. Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br Networking Engineer jonny@coe.ufrj.br From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 07:00:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCA337B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tcoip.com.br (erato.tco.net.br [200.220.254.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F0A43F85 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@tcoip.com.br) Received: from tcoip.com.br ([10.0.2.6]) by mail.tcoip.com.br (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6GE0gj04652; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:00:42 -0300 Message-ID: <3F155A8A.1060504@tcoip.com.br> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:00:42 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030702 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, pt-br, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rudolf Cejka References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715203333.GA25714@roma.coe.ufrj.br> <20030715215327.GB23859@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F154C4A.5080807@tcoip.com.br> <20030716131213.GA30208@fit.vutbr.cz> In-Reply-To: <20030716131213.GA30208@fit.vutbr.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:00:52 -0000 Rudolf Cejka wrote: > Daniel C. Sobral wrote (2003/07/16): > >>OTOH, we'd better do a consultation to find out how many mirrors won't >>be able to keep up with the standards we set upon, because if lose too >>many mirrors, maybe it's better to rethink the standards. > > > I hope the goal is not to reduce the number of mirrors. The goal would > be just to have clearer core of mirrors, which are sufficiently reliable > and which have everything. The others would stay, as they are, however > it should be documented, what they have and what they have not. ??? I don't think the goal _should_ be either of these options. I'd like for the goal to be define operating standards maximizing the ease with which users can download FreeBSD, be it ISOs, net installs, or whatever. As I see, there are two main requirements to reach that goal. 1) That users can find mirrors with good bandwidth and low latency. So we need many mirrors, and they must presented to the user in a way that makes it easy for him to try the ones most likely to serve him well. The per-country naming system is certainly part of that. Good support and low requirements for mirrors would improve the number of mirrors. 2) That, once selecting a mirror, the user find what he expects there. This second requirement is the one thing we really miss. We have no standards, and no way to inform the user what he is likely to find in a mirror without him going there and checking it out. Another part of this requirement is a distribution system that gets the release out in a timely manner. And, by timely, that means quick enough not to upset RE schedule, and in such a way that decreases the chance of the first mirrors replicating it getting overloaded by untimely leaks. So, for instance, we may decide that ftp*.tier2.*.freebsd.org must have the package set for the latest release, and users *know* they'll find that there. And that might get some mirrors out of "tier 2". There may be something to allowing mirrors even if they do not meet those standards. Say, for instance, that we change our names to ftp*.tier1.cc.freebsd.org, ftp*.tier2.cc.freebsd.org and ftp*.other.cc.freebsd.org, list everything on sysinstall but advise the user of what standards are set for each. Well, anyway... that's my 2 cents on the subject. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Gerencia de Operacoes Divisao de Comunicacao de Dados Coordenacao de Seguranca VIVO Centro Oeste Norte Fones: 55-61-313-7654/Cel: 55-61-9618-0904 E-mail: Daniel.Capo@tco.net.br Daniel.Sobral@tcoip.com.br dcs@tcoip.com.br Outros: dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@notorious.bsdconspiracy.net When we jumped into Sicily, the units became separated, and I couldn't find anyone. Eventually I stumbled across two colonels, a major, three captains, two lieutenants, and one rifleman, and we secured the bridge. Never in the history of war have so few been led by so many. -- General James Gavin From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 07:18:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1FC37B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8861643F3F for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: by coe.ufrj.br (Postfix, from userid 2000) id CF6C4D9034; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:18:55 -0300 (BRT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:18:55 -0300 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Message-ID: <20030716141855.GB35857@roma.coe.ufrj.br> References: <20030712173332.GB14686@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F14147F.2010706@jonny.eng.br> <20030715203333.GA25714@roma.coe.ufrj.br> <20030715215327.GB23859@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F154C4A.5080807@tcoip.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3F154C4A.5080807@tcoip.com.br> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Quote: What are you looking for in my mail headers ? X-Operating-System: FreeBSD X-URL: http://www.jonny.eng.br From: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) cc: jason andrade cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:18:59 -0000 Somebody told me that Daniel C. Sobral said: > jason andrade wrote: > >it is *much* better for mirrors to maintain a base level of consistency as > >our research into mirror use here has shown that users are more likely to > >use mirrors when they have stability in the process. any loss of stability > >almost certainly leads to the majority defaulting back to their perceived > >master site: ftp.freebsd.org and it takes a while for them to switch back > >again (e.g build trust in the process again). Very good point! And considering the stupid^H^H^H^H^H^Haverage user, the "nearest server" routine would be handy, altough I confess I do not have a perfect idea of how to implement this. It must not be only a matter of RTT, but also of bandwidth and maybe link costs. > >so to address the point - if rules come about they are being developed in > >consultation with the community and should be consistently applied to all > >mirrors. > > OTOH, we'd better do a consultation to find out how many mirrors won't > be able to keep up with the standards we set upon, because if lose too > many mirrors, maybe it's better to rethink the standards. Risking to loose my mirror status, I have to agree here... BTW: Could we devise some means to REQUIRE subscription of mirror managers to some list, and remove mirrors who do not answer after some time? Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br Networking Engineer jonny@coe.ufrj.br From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 08:54:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3F537B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9A143FAF for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6GFsnbr012749 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6GFsmDR012748 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:54:48 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030716155448.GA11005@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:54:51 -0000 Is this a fair summary? 1) As painful as it might be, when a standard is settled on it will apply to both existing and new sites. The standard will hopefully be low enough to not cause too much fallout of existing sites but it's the service level to end-users we're trying to make sure we keep reasonable. 2) To keep things simple there will three tiers of Official Mirror Sites. The tiering labels are not necessarily a mapping of where sites get the bits from, though it does have a small impact. The tiering labels are more concerned with "how much stuff" and "how fast it arrives" for the various sites. 3) Tier-0 are the ftp-master* sites, they only allow connections from Official Mirror Sites. 4) Tier-1 sites carry "everything" (see below) and are candidates for being in the TLD but we don't want *too* many sites in the TLD so not all of the Tier-1's will be in the TLD. All sites that are in the TLD will be Tier-1's, well connected, etc. 5) Tier-2 sites carry the materials needed to do a successful FTP-based install (stuff in releases/ and ports/ directories) for the most current versions of the -stable and -current branches (that would currently mean FreeBSD 4.8 and FreeBSD 5.1) of at least one architecture. Note I'm thinking sysinstall here - it's useless for sysinstall to list a site with ISO's only... Carrying the roughly-weekly updated sets of packages is not *required*, just the -release directory of packages for, in this case, 4.8 and 5.1. 6) I adapt the Web pages (and sysinstall?) to have some indication of whether a site is Tier-1 or Tier-2 with the notice saying something along the lines of "Tier-2 sites carry enough stuff to do a successful install for the architectures they do carry, but they may not carry all of the architectures". With this layout re@ will know that the machines in the TLD are likely to have the bits fastest so the beta testers can check there first, and they're not likely to cause a *huge* load issue on the servers. Beta testers being (hopefully :-) above average users they can probably poke around on their own and find something suitable if they for some reason have problems with the "get it from a TLD machine" algorithm. As for "everything"... :-/ The most convenient definition I can think of is "whatever is on ftp-master" but I don't know if that's overkill. Given the above layout we don't *need* a huge number of machines that qualify as Tier-1 (14 at the moment :-) and I'm guessing we've got more than that. It's not a tragedy for a host to "slip" to Tier-2, note that none of this addresses what a machine's upstream host is or anything like that. We can deal with that later. A Tier-1 would need to have a Tier-0 as its upstream host but Tier-2's could also have a Tier-0 as the upstream host. At that level the Tier designation is based more on amount of content. I can try to come up with a better definition of "everything" if this one isn't good enough. If this sounds reasonable I'd suggest we stop calling them Tier-* and come up with different designations. Maybe something like: Tier-0 -> "Distribution Site" Tier-1 -> "Primary Mirror Site" Tier-2 -> "Secondary Mirror Site" Meta comments... I've noticed the bittorrent stuff come up in several threads, when I get some time I'll begin looking into that. My first impressions of it are that it's probably of use for ISO distribution but probably not for FTP-based installation mechanisms, but I don't know its basic workings yet. I am also working on generating a list of the current sites registered as Official Mirrors and will use that to generate the announce-only mandatory private email list. So far nobody has said that's a bad idea. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 09:39:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE5537B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B61B243F75 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:39:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h6GGdS8p001379 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:39:28 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id h6GGdS8a001377 for hubs@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:39:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:39:28 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030716163927.GA12679@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) on odin.ac.hmc.edu Subject: public_distfiles update cycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:39:31 -0000 --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could someone give me a general idea what the public_distfiles update cycle looks like? I dropped something in ~brooks/public_distfiles yesterday and I'm wondering when to expect to start showing up. Thanks, Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/FX+/XY6L6fI4GtQRAia6AJ9s2BFurW0nZnoEfCH8bt9LVxbWywCeN8sM VwY7lP8HsYeR3vAQkz97rO0= =YXzV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 10:52:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD2837B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D87243FCB for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:52:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: by coe.ufrj.br (Postfix, from userid 2000) id 2F999D9037; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:51:55 -0300 (BRT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:51:55 -0300 To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030716175155.GA88480@roma.coe.ufrj.br> References: <20030716155448.GA11005@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20030716155448.GA11005@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Quote: What are you looking for in my mail headers ? X-Operating-System: FreeBSD X-URL: http://www.jonny.eng.br From: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:52:02 -0000 Somebody told me that Ken Smith said: > Meta comments... I've noticed the bittorrent stuff come up in several > threads, when I get some time I'll begin looking into that. My first > impressions of it are that it's probably of use for ISO distribution > but probably not for FTP-based installation mechanisms, but I don't Right... Only for ISOs. Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br Networking Engineer jonny@coe.ufrj.br From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 16 20:51:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28CD537B401 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F7B643F75 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6H3pdbr028735; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6H3pdho028734; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:51:39 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Brooks Davis Message-ID: <20030717035139.GH24728@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030716163927.GA12679@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030716163927.GA12679@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: public_distfiles update cycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:51:41 -0000 On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 09:39:28AM -0700, Brooks Davis wrote: > Could someone give me a general idea what the public_distfiles update > cycle looks like? I dropped something in ~brooks/public_distfiles > yesterday and I'm wondering when to expect to start showing up. [ This is my first try at answering this sort of question, if I'm too far off the mark someone else will correct me. :-] By observation it seems like things get copied into place on ftp-master at 20:05 by a cron job, I can't tell if that happens more often than once a day. But "into place" means that it is in the ports/local-distfiles and the ports/ directory is notorious among the mirror sites for being a hard thing to deal with. The well-connected large mirror sites will have it within a day of it showing up on ftp-master but many of the mirror sites sync the ports/ directories less frequently than once a day. So, it should have already started to show up on some sites, it will take a day or two more before it will be on the majority of the mirror sites. We're actively working on trying to make it at least a little more predictable what sites will have it sooner versus later. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 01:53:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6226E37B401 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from white.imgsrc.co.jp (ns.imgsrc.co.jp [210.226.20.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17B843F85 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:53:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuriyama@imgsrc.co.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66C84704 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:53:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by white.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B474554 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:53:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from black.imgsrc.co.jp (black.imgsrc.co.jp [2001:218:422:2::130]) by black.imgsrc.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE1711E460E for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:53:32 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:53:32 +0900 Message-ID: <7mel0p356b.wl@black.imgsrc.co.jp> From: Jun Kuriyama To: hubs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030716163927.GA12679@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <20030716163927.GA12679@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.0 (Venus) SEMI/1.14.5 (Awara-Onsen) FLIM/1.14.5 (Demachiyanagi) APEL/10.4 Emacs/21.2 (i386--freebsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 Subject: Re: public_distfiles update cycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:53:35 -0000 At Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:39:28 -0700, Brooks Davis wrote: > Could someone give me a general idea what the public_distfiles update > cycle looks like? I dropped something in ~brooks/public_distfiles > yesterday and I'm wondering when to expect to start showing up. It seems files are copied from users public_distfiles to /d/distfiles/ at 5 past every hour on freefall. On ftp-master, files are fetched from freefall into public place at 15 past every hour. -- Jun Kuriyama // IMG SRC, Inc. // FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 05:12:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7473637B401 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arthur.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED6243F93 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:12:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon@arthur.nitro.dk) Received: by arthur.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9AA2310DB6F; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:12:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:12:26 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030717121225.GB410@nitro.dk> References: <20030716155448.GA11005@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="aVD9QWMuhilNxW9f" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030716155448.GA11005@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:12:28 -0000 --aVD9QWMuhilNxW9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003.07.16 11:54:48 -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > 4) Tier-1 sites carry "everything" (see below) and are candidates for > being in the TLD but we don't want *too* many sites in the TLD so > not all of the Tier-1's will be in the TLD. All sites that are in > the TLD will be Tier-1's, well connected, etc. With regards to carrying everything, I think it should be noted that ftp.beastie.tdk.net (half of ftp.freebsd.org), does not carry most of the files below pub/FreeBSD/branches/-current/. I don't know if it's important, but it would be a bit silly to create requirements that ftp.freebsd.org can't even fulfill :-). --=20 Simon L. Nielsen --aVD9QWMuhilNxW9f Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/FpKp8kocFXgPTRwRAo7LAKCYUPtYyl882LQ6miBTv2HcYjIBjgCbB0kU A7ZCbSPCCPuMg4Z+2ca83b0= =RpEt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --aVD9QWMuhilNxW9f-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 05:43:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E0137B401 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luna.rtfmconsult.com (luna.rtfmconsult.com [202.83.72.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C4CF43FA3 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:42:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@rtfmconsult.com) Received: by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix, from userid 42) id 523FA48E6F; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:42:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A37252D96; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:42:57 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:42:57 +1000 (EST) From: jason andrade To: "Simon L. Nielsen" In-Reply-To: <20030717121225.GB410@nitro.dk> Message-ID: References: <20030716155448.GA11005@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030717121225.GB410@nitro.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:43:02 -0000 On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Simon L. Nielsen wrote: > On 2003.07.16 11:54:48 -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > > > 4) Tier-1 sites carry "everything" (see below) and are candidates for > > being in the TLD but we don't want *too* many sites in the TLD so > > not all of the Tier-1's will be in the TLD. All sites that are in > > the TLD will be Tier-1's, well connected, etc. > > With regards to carrying everything, I think it should be noted that > ftp.beastie.tdk.net (half of ftp.freebsd.org), does not carry most of > the files below pub/FreeBSD/branches/-current/. > > I don't know if it's important, but it would be a bit silly to create > requirements that ftp.freebsd.org can't even fulfill :-). i guess hence the consultation.. but i agree as i also don't carry branches at all anymore. this has been discussed in the past as the usage of the branches tree seems to be a lot of pain for very little gain from my experience and other comments made here. it is a lot of very small files which are very rarely looked at by http/ftp users - so why are we carrying them any more since this stuff is made available via cvs/cvsup ? regards, -jason From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 06:05:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1953337B401 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E81D43F3F for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029D63D28; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:05:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: jason andrade Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:05:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F1666F0.12316.3864F42F@localhost> Priority: normal References: <20030717121225.GB410@nitro.dk> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:05:54 -0000 On 17 Jul 2003 at 22:42, jason andrade wrote: > it is a lot of very small files which are very rarely looked at > by http/ftp users - so why are we carrying them any more since > this stuff is made available via cvs/cvsup ? A good point. I think we have to remember who our clients our. In this case, it is the general public. That's who we should be catering to. Carry what they want. We want to make things as easy as possible for them. They are the ones we need/want/must impress. The ease of install is a very important factor and forms a significant part of the first impression. If we agree the above is true, then it's not so important for a mirror to carry the files which the general public will not want. At present, I'd say the general public wants 4.8-RELEASE. Yes, some of them will even want 5.*. But apart from that, what else do they want? Perhaps before we need to decide that first. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 06:18:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4AF37B401 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luna.rtfmconsult.com (luna.rtfmconsult.com [202.83.72.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3575543F85 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:18:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@rtfmconsult.com) Received: by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix, from userid 42) id 3069048E6F; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:18:45 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2989552D96; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:18:45 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:18:44 +1000 (EST) From: jason andrade To: Dan Langille In-Reply-To: <3F1666F0.12316.3864F42F@localhost> Message-ID: References: <20030717121225.GB410@nitro.dk> <3F1666F0.12316.3864F42F@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:18:47 -0000 On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Dan Langille wrote: > If we agree the above is true, then it's not so important for a > mirror to carry the files which the general public will not want. At > present, I'd say the general public wants 4.8-RELEASE. Yes, some of > them will even want 5.*. But apart from that, what else do they > want? 95% of them want ISO images for releases. freebsd users may be more sophisticated than linux ones.. so maybe 85% say.. out of that, the iso requirement is well served at the moment. a mini install iso one (great stuff!) and a 'full' iso release of 2 cds which has the full install tree plus a bunch of packages. the remainder of people do net installs and so it is a good idea to have a complete release tree and associated package tree of the following: i386 (majority) alpha (i am guessing 2nd most used but can someone from the freebsd group please correct me) sparc64 pc98 if as a minimum subset all tier1s and tier2s could carry a complete 4.8-R and 5.1-R plus their i386 packages and ISOs, that'd work for me.. regards, -jason From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 06:45:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6681F37B401 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9563643FAF for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6HDjRbr007181; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6HDjRNi007180; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:45:27 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: jason andrade Message-ID: <20030717134527.GB6142@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030716155448.GA11005@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030717121225.GB410@nitro.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: "Simon L. Nielsen" cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:45:29 -0000 On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 10:42:57PM +1000, jason andrade wrote: > it is a lot of very small files which are very rarely looked at > by http/ftp users - so why are we carrying them any more since > this stuff is made available via cvs/cvsup ? If anyone else has more information about this stuff than I do feel totally free to do whatever. This message isn't meant to discourage anyone from poking around if you're so inclined. But just so you know, I had noted this as one of Jesper's two pet peeves (the other one being all the *&^()-ing mirror sites that use ftp.freebsd.org as their upstream site :-). I did what I can to address that second pet peeve a week or two ago when I learned how to deal with documentation updates and did a first pass at updating the Mirroring article (it now explicitly says all over the place not to mirror from ftp.freebsd.org :-). The question about the branches/ tree I was waiting for access to ftp-master so I could start to track down who it is that generates it and start asking questions in that direction (hopefully whoever it is that generates it would have some idea of who it is they are generating it for :-). It turns out the files are owned by "archive" so it's going to be harder to track this down than I was hoping but it's at least on my radar if nobody else has any ideas on what to do about this. If someone else is in a better position to poke around feel free. I was sort of wondering if the naming in the branches/ directory was done as some sort of cruel joke/test to see if you were "qualified" to see the most recent stuff. Try doing "cd -current" from inside of the branches/ directory. [ And yes, I know what to do about it, though it's more challenging than my default first solution which would be "cd - -current"... :-]. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 13:49:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D999437B401 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7DE43FA3 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:49:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6HKnobr018992 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6HKnoKD018991 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:49:50 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030717204950.GC17472@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030717121225.GB410@nitro.dk> <3F1666F0.12316.3864F42F@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F1666F0.12316.3864F42F@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:49:52 -0000 On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 09:05:52AM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > If we agree the above is true, then it's not so important for a > mirror to carry the files which the general public will not want. At > present, I'd say the general public wants 4.8-RELEASE. Yes, some of > them will even want 5.*. But apart from that, what else do they > want? I'm not exactly a typical user but I do use what I carry in our mirror site for both my day job and my night job... :-) Day job is normal sys-admin, I use 4.8 on our DNS servers, firewalls, couple fileservers, cvsup server, couple mail hubs, etc. along with a healthy mix of other OS's, various architectures of machines, ... Night job is teaching sys-admin and kernel hacking. I use 5.1 for both of those (was happy that the central fileserver for last semester's class survived well despite me having "risked" running 5.0 on it :-). Other than the release bits I am occasionally interested in going through the work of updating packages to the -current level but I'll admit I do that a lot less frequently on the FreeBSD machines than I do on the other OS variants. I typically do use the packages instead of ports because they're already here on disk (mirror machine allows NFS mounting of /ftp). If the packages were not on the local disk I'd probably use the ports much more often. Once a machine is running FreeBSD I typically don't care about the release bits for that machine any more, upgrades happen via cvsup using the RELENG tag. If I'm ever looking for the equivalent of what's in branches/ I don't get it from there... The Web interface to the cvs repository is much more convenient. -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 14:14:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F120337B401 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from luna.rtfmconsult.com (luna.rtfmconsult.com [202.83.72.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C4043F3F for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@rtfmconsult.com) Received: by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix, from userid 42) id 6E60748E6F; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:14:13 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luna.rtfmconsult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67CFC52D96; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:14:13 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:14:13 +1000 (EST) From: jason andrade To: Ken Smith In-Reply-To: <20030717134527.GB6142@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Message-ID: References: <20030716155448.GA11005@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030717134527.GB6142@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Site Requirements - Summary thus far... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:14:16 -0000 On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Ken Smith wrote: > I was sort of wondering if the naming in the branches/ directory > was done as some sort of cruel joke/test to see if you were > "qualified" to see the most recent stuff. Try doing "cd -current" > from inside of the branches/ directory. [ And yes, I know what > to do about it, though it's more challenging than my default first > solution which would be "cd - -current"... :-]. oh you would not believe the amount of whinging i've done about that name in the past publicly and privately.. to no avail.. it's another reason we just don't carry the branches tree. about the only thing that'd annoy me worse is going through all the release trees and making up things like FreeBSD 5.0 RELEASE (with spaces :-) regards, -jason From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 17 20:15:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B86B37B404 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-67-119-53-152.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [67.119.53.152]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6200F43F75 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:15:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F51E66CFA; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6D08FBA7; Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:02:08 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Brooks Davis Message-ID: <20030716210208.GA28912@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <20030716163927.GA12679@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="T4sUOijqQbZv57TR" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030716163927.GA12679@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: public_distfiles update cycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 03:15:29 -0000 --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 09:39:28AM -0700, Brooks Davis wrote: > Could someone give me a general idea what the public_distfiles update > cycle looks like? I dropped something in ~brooks/public_distfiles > yesterday and I'm wondering when to expect to start showing up. It's supposed to be picked up by a cron job once an hour. Check the permissions on your file and directory. Kris --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/Fb1QWry0BWjoQKURAsG3AKDIqlP5zmCUCG6koBx0cec2VUjSVACgge3p ud+KspppIjgtD45HJ0fpWYc= =tpOW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 18 10:47:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9498F37B401 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74F043F75 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:47:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6IHl4br011291 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6IHl3DL011290 for freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:47:03 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20030718174703.GC9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Subject: Mirror Requirements - Last question? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:47:05 -0000 There are one or two dangling loose ends but I think the only remaining big question I have is whether or not to require Official Mirrors to carry both the "Production Release" and the "New Technology Release" (the terms come from the top-level Web page, 4.8 and 5.1 respectively at the moment). How about "Primary Mirrors" must carry both, "Secondary Mirrors" are only required to carry the latest Production Release? If that doesn't seem reasonable let us know. Thoughts from everyone welcome but it would be nice if re@ voiced an opinion. :-) -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 18 10:53:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 902F737B401 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB2C43FB1 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:53:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226083D28; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:53:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: Ken Smith Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:53:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F17FBEB.19412.3E93010D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030718174703.GC9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Requirements - Last question? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:53:54 -0000 On 18 Jul 2003 at 13:47, Ken Smith wrote: > > There are one or two dangling loose ends but I think the only remaining > big question I have is whether or not to require Official Mirrors to > carry both the "Production Release" and the "New Technology Release" > (the terms come from the top-level Web page, 4.8 and 5.1 respectively > at the moment). > > How about "Primary Mirrors" must carry both, "Secondary Mirrors" are > only required to carry the latest Production Release? If that doesn't > seem reasonable let us know. > > Thoughts from everyone welcome but it would be nice if re@ voiced an > opinion. :-) Where do the "other" mirrors fit in? Some mirrors don't even cover the full production release. Just bin/floppies/tools etc. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 18 10:55:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F2D137B401 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tcoip.com.br (erato.tco.net.br [200.220.254.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D28D43FB1 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:55:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@tcoip.com.br) Received: from tcoip.com.br ([10.0.2.6]) by mail.tcoip.com.br (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h6IHtDj25854; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:55:13 -0300 Message-ID: <3F183480.5040501@tcoip.com.br> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:55:12 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030702 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, pt-br, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ken Smith References: <20030718174703.GC9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> In-Reply-To: <20030718174703.GC9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Requirements - Last question? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:55:25 -0000 Ken Smith wrote: > There are one or two dangling loose ends but I think the only remaining > big question I have is whether or not to require Official Mirrors to > carry both the "Production Release" and the "New Technology Release" > (the terms come from the top-level Web page, 4.8 and 5.1 respectively > at the moment). > > How about "Primary Mirrors" must carry both, "Secondary Mirrors" are > only required to carry the latest Production Release? If that doesn't > seem reasonable let us know. > > Thoughts from everyone welcome but it would be nice if re@ voiced an > opinion. :-) Seems reasonable to me. Including the part about re@ voicing an opinion. :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Gerencia de Operacoes Divisao de Comunicacao de Dados Coordenacao de Seguranca VIVO Centro Oeste Norte Fones: 55-61-313-7654/Cel: 55-61-9618-0904 E-mail: Daniel.Capo@tco.net.br Daniel.Sobral@tcoip.com.br dcs@tcoip.com.br Outros: dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@notorious.bsdconspiracy.net A newly-wed man of Peru Found himself in a terrible stew: His wife was in bed Much deader than dead, And so he had no one to screw. From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 18 11:18:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437CF37B401 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8344A43F85 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:18:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (kensmith@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h6IIIPbr012126; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h6IIIPwq012125; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:18:25 -0400 From: Ken Smith To: Dan Langille Message-ID: <20030718181825.GD9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> References: <20030718174703.GC9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F17FBEB.19412.3E93010D@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F17FBEB.19412.3E93010D@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Requirements - Last question? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:18:27 -0000 On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 01:53:47PM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > Where do the "other" mirrors fit in? Some mirrors don't even cover > the full production release. Just bin/floppies/tools etc. Just my opinion, open to suggestions... They fall under "Unofficial Mirrors". No mention in sysinstall or on the Web pages. If they're not carrying enough to cover the full production release then they're mirroring stuff that handles their own purposes. But are they carrying enough for us to suggest that users go there looking for stuff? That's what I'm trying to settle. What is the minimum amount of stuff a site should have for us to feel good about suggesting users go there looking for stuff? Short of doing some sort of poll, all I can come up with is that users will want to "Get FreeBSD" from the site. That means either an ISO download or an FTP-based install as far as the FTP systems go (they can get lots more related to FreeBSD but that's the Web sites and/or the cvsup sites). That's the category I fall under. I carry everything but I'm not an Official Mirror, I rsync from ftp12. Our FTP server is already high enough on the campus network folks' radar because of a few other things we carry that we are official mirrors for. I still want to contribute *something* to the FreeBSD project so I ... well, you know... ;-) -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 18 12:43:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F86237B401 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arthur.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B049443F93 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:43:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon@arthur.nitro.dk) Received: by arthur.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CEE0F10DB6C; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:43:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:43:11 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030718194311.GF415@nitro.dk> References: <20030718174703.GC9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F17FBEB.19412.3E93010D@localhost> <20030718181825.GD9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="N1GIdlSm9i+YlY4t" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030718181825.GD9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Requirements - Last question? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:43:13 -0000 --N1GIdlSm9i+YlY4t Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003.07.18 14:18:25 -0400, Ken Smith wrote: > On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 01:53:47PM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: >=20 > > Where do the "other" mirrors fit in? Some mirrors don't even cover=20 > > the full production release. Just bin/floppies/tools etc. >=20 > Just my opinion, open to suggestions... How about making some kind of list of what each mirror carry? Not on file level, but the major parts. E.g. a mirror can carry : stable i386 ISO images, stable release i386 packages, current/new tech amd64 packages and so on. It could be partially automated by a scripts that checks the content on the mirrors. E.g. redhat uses something like this: http://www.redhat.com/download/mirror.html . The sysinstall mirrors list could the generated from this mirror list. Just an idea, which might be overkill, but since it seems very hard to define what non-full mirrors should carry this might be a way to solve handle it. --=20 Simon L. Nielsen --N1GIdlSm9i+YlY4t Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/GE3P8kocFXgPTRwRAmOrAJ9W6r8jYSO4HGVLAjXTnxmTRR2lowCgrmxF rpbVbXnjcwUHFd3kuLvukME= =VX68 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --N1GIdlSm9i+YlY4t-- From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 18 17:02:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9763237B40A for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mf1.bredband.net (mf1.bredband.net [195.54.106.36]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2769243FB1 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:01:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from ludd.luth.se ([213.115.127.223]) by mf1.bredband.net with ESMTP id <20030719000150.DNAW13096.mf1@ludd.luth.se>; Sat, 19 Jul 2003 02:01:50 +0200 Message-ID: <3F188A6E.7020406@ludd.luth.se> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 02:01:50 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030602 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Simon L. Nielsen" References: <20030718174703.GC9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F17FBEB.19412.3E93010D@localhost> <20030718181825.GD9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <20030718194311.GF415@nitro.dk> In-Reply-To: <20030718194311.GF415@nitro.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org cc: Ken Smith Subject: Re: Mirror Requirements - Last question? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:02:17 -0000 Simon L. Nielsen wrote: > How about making some kind of list of what each mirror carry? Not on > file level, but the major parts. E.g. a mirror can carry : stable i386 > ISO images, stable release i386 packages, current/new tech amd64 > packages and so on. > > It could be partially automated by a scripts that checks the content on > the mirrors. E.g. redhat uses something like this: > http://www.redhat.com/download/mirror.html . Maybe something like this: http://www.freebsdmirrors.org From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 18 18:13:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9FC37B401 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CBDA43F75 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: by coe.ufrj.br (Postfix, from userid 2000) id 7D3C5D902F; Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:13:48 -0300 (BRT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:13:48 -0300 To: Ken Smith Message-ID: <20030719011348.GA48853@roma.coe.ufrj.br> References: <20030718174703.GC9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> <3F17FBEB.19412.3E93010D@localhost> <20030718181825.GD9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20030718181825.GD9029@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Quote: What are you looking for in my mail headers ? X-Operating-System: FreeBSD X-URL: http://www.jonny.eng.br From: jonny@jonny.eng.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) cc: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mirror Requirements - Last question? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Distributions Hubs: mail sup ftp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:13:54 -0000 Somebody told me that Ken Smith said: > On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 01:53:47PM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > > > Where do the "other" mirrors fit in? Some mirrors don't even cover > > the full production release. Just bin/floppies/tools etc. > > Just my opinion, open to suggestions... > > They fall under "Unofficial Mirrors". No mention in sysinstall or on > the Web pages. If they're not carrying enough to cover the full > production release then they're mirroring stuff that handles their own > purposes. But are they carrying enough for us to suggest that users > go there looking for stuff? That's what I'm trying to settle. What > is the minimum amount of stuff a site should have for us to feel > good about suggesting users go there looking for stuff? Just for consideration: As I already said, I carry full 4.8-RELEASE, and ISOs and dists for 5.1-RELEASE (no packages). Reason: full packages are the biggest part of a release, and not ever fully needed (too much bloat). As long as we keep with 2.5 ISOs (disk1, disk2 and mini), I think this will be just ok. For you instant reference: roma::root i386 [1453] du -sh 4.8-RELEASE 5.1-RELEASE ISO-IMAGES/* 4.8-RELEASE/packages/. 202M 4.8-RELEASE 212M 5.1-RELEASE 1.0G ISO-IMAGES/4.8 1.1G ISO-IMAGES/5.1 5.2G 4.8-RELEASE/packages/. roma::root i386 [1454] As you see, a single -packages is 4 times bigger than just ISOs and dists. Also, I think that even primary mirrors should not be asked to carry daily snapshots. There's not enough usage for that bandwidth waste. People who run snapshots could go to current.freebsd.org or stable.freebsd.org, as it used to work some time ago, and I personally think we need no more than one of each. I think main mirrors would carry, for all archs: - Latest Production Release (4.8) - Full - Latest Development Release (5.1) - Full - Possibly, the Previous Production Release (4.7) - Dists and ISOs only? - This would be deleted everytime a RC is released - Distfiles - Updated once a month - Latest Production SNAP - Dists (and packages?), updated once a month - Latest Development SNAP - Dists (and packages?), updated once a month - Possibly, a full open src tree for both above SNAPs, not really needed if we have enough cvsup and cvsweb mirrors. In the long time, we could end with a WWW page that could be queried to find where one could find part (ISOs, Dists or Packages) and Arch matches, for each release, and some kind of search engine would keep even the unnofficial mirrors listed here. Jonny -- João Carlos Mendes Luís jonny@jonny.eng.br Networking Engineer jonny@coe.ufrj.br