From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 11 18:32:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C5A16A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grover.logicsquad.net (ppp34-103.lns1.adl1.internode.on.net [150.101.34.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 540CA43D48 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paulh@logicsquad.net) Received: (qmail 72883 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Apr 2004 01:32:38 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:02:38 +0930 From: "Paul A. Hoadley" To: John Von Essen Message-ID: <20040412013238.GH92584@grover.logicsquad.net> References: <91A01A3C-89D8-11D8-91B3-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> <20040410022715.GL85168@grover.logicsquad.net> <20040410231232.S97005@beck.quonix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Op27XXJsWz80g3oF" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040410231232.S97005@beck.quonix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Max OS X and BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 01:32:40 -0000 --Op27XXJsWz80g3oF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Apr 10, 2004 at 11:19:19PM -0400, John Von Essen wrote: [Quotes re-arranged] > > On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 11:47:05PM -0400, John Von Essen wrote: > > > > > (along with the ill-fated WebObjects) > > > > As an aside, are you referring to this product, or something else? > > > > http://www.apple.com/webobjects/ > > > > I've never really looked at it, but a few friends at small- and > > medium-sized shops in Australia use it extensively. Do you think it's > > ill-fated? > > I called it ill-fated because Apple was pushing it hard a few years > back, now they have eased off. I dont see it lasting. I gather from the people I know who use it that Apple is pretty uninterested in promoting it. > For starters, your confined to the Mac hardware platform. Not at all---it also runs on Windows and Solaris. I'm pretty sure people have also got it up on FreeBSD. --=20 Paul. mailto:paulh@logicsquad.net --Op27XXJsWz80g3oF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAefG2730Z/jysbzIRAkbhAJ92OEi88IjSad+FUN5+8BA0uufFwQCfdKmg ppEis0v4u0EyKUwA+P4hd2A= =lBOx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Op27XXJsWz80g3oF-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 11 18:44:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA00916A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7537143D49 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 18:44:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3C1iNYZ006042 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:44:23 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:44:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: FreeBSD Chat List Message-ID: <20040411213942.J49185@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Multiuser game for FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 01:44:25 -0000 Anyone knows of a, preferably simple, multiuser game for FreeBSD. My wife and I used to play some games when I had two windows machines. Now that I have 2 FreeBSD and 1 windows I am wondering if anyone can recommend something we can play. She does not like complex games so any simple multi-user game should do. Board games a big plus. Currently looking at the games category in the ports tree and planning to start trying some of the games. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 11 20:04:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12DA116A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.speakeasy.net (webmail3.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D062843D2D for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:04:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from otterr@speakeasy.net) Received: (qmail 19876 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2004 03:04:09 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO webmail3) ([127.0.0.1]) (envelope-sender ) by localhost (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 12 Apr 2004 03:04:09 -0000 Received: from 66.93.49.241 (unverified [66.93.49.241]) by webmail3 (VisualMail 4.0) with WEBMAIL id 21262; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 03:04:09 +0000 From: otterr@speakeasy.net To: "Francisco Reyes" , "FreeBSD Chat List" Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Normal Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mintersoft VisualMail, Build 4.0.111601 X-Originating-IP: [66.93.49.241] Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 03:04:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Multiuser game for FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 03:04:11 -0000 xfrisk is one of my favorites. it's risk, but on xf86. -ott > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Reyes [mailto:lists@natserv.com] > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 01:44 AM > To: 'FreeBSD Chat List' > Subject: Multiuser game for FreeBSD? > > Anyone knows of a, preferably simple, multiuser game for FreeBSD. > > My wife and I used to play some games when I had two windows machines. Now > that I have 2 FreeBSD and 1 windows I am wondering if anyone can recommend > something we can play. > > She does not like complex games so any simple multi-user game should do. > Board games a big plus. > > Currently looking at the games category in the ports tree and planning to > start trying some of the games. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 11 20:12:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C157816A4CE for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD5443D48 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:12:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3C3C6Q9035839; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:42:07 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:41:59 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <20040411213942.J49185@zoraida.natserv.net> In-Reply-To: <20040411213942.J49185@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404121241.59911.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -4.4 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_KMAIL X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: Re: Multiuser game for FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 03:12:11 -0000 On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Anyone knows of a, preferably simple, multiuser game for FreeBSD. > > My wife and I used to play some games when I had two windows machines. Now > that I have 2 FreeBSD and 1 windows I am wondering if anyone can recommend > something we can play. > > She does not like complex games so any simple multi-user game should do. > Board games a big plus. > > Currently looking at the games category in the ports tree and planning to > start trying some of the games. games/gnocatan is pretty good fun (it's a copy of the Settlers of Catan series of games) games/wolfpack is pretty fun too, but pretty in-depth and long term (you can finish a game over a weekend if you only sleep for 2-4 hours a night, or a game can last a year..) There are plenty of blackjack/poker/etc copies in the ports tree too. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 12 09:24:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B6CD16A4CE for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from annibale.willystudios.com (annibale.willystudios.com [216.120.241.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559A743D53 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:24:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from max@stucchi.ath.cx) Received: by annibale.willystudios.com (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 8BD484F404; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:20:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from max.willystudios.com (host104-22.pool80182.interbusiness.it [80.182.22.104]) by annibale.willystudios.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A554F3D6 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:20:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from max.willystudios.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by max.willystudios.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3CGOS7P002296 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:24:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from max@stucchi.ath.cx) Received: (from max@localhost) by max.willystudios.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i3CGOSWV002295 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:24:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from max) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:24:27 +0200 From: Massimiliano Stucchi To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040412162427.GA2189@willystudios.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE X-Organization: WillyStudios.com X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=0.16.4 Subject: MySQL users conference X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: stucchi@willystudios.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:24:42 -0000 --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there ! Is there any chance to meet some FreeBSD people over at the MySQL Users conference starting this Wednesday in Orlando ? If you're coming, send me an email, so that we can meet up there ! cheers --=20 Massimiliano Stucchi WillyStudios.com stucchi@willystudios.com Http://www.willystudios.com/max/ --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAesK7FwcpJfdZDoERAiZIAJ9mfwbIOr0lPe8tFjr+6RvnzVnVzQCdHczj Yg2JP7CJSBsy0DDO9PS1vlE= =XEOh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 13 08:37:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5055316A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from voyager.twobirds.us (c-24-18-214-102.client.comcast.net [24.18.214.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390C243D62 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:37:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joshua@twobirds.us) Received: from [63.226.239.158] (helo=twobirds.us) by voyager.twobirds.us with smtp (Exim 4.31; FreeBSD) id 1BDPyU-000486-T7 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:37:23 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:37:04 -0700 From: Joshua Lokken To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Organization: Little to none... Subject: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:37:30 -0000 I just had a co-worker tell me that his opinion of *NIX is that it's "just advanced DOS." I had to roll on the floor for a few minutes, laughing... ;) -- Joshua Women are more easily and more deeply terrified ... generating more sheer horror than the male of the species. -- Spock, "Wolf in the Fold", stardate 3615.4 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 13 08:51:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D134916A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (u46n208.hfx.eastlink.ca [24.222.46.208]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5785E43D53 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:51:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7E40635959; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:51:35 -0300 (ADT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B23D3594F; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:51:35 -0300 (ADT) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:51:35 -0300 (ADT) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Joshua Lokken In-Reply-To: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> Message-ID: <20040413125012.S19123@ganymede.hub.org> References: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:51:36 -0000 On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Joshua Lokken wrote: > > > I just had a co-worker tell me that his opinion of *NIX is that it's > "just advanced DOS." I had to roll on the floor for a few minutes, > laughing... ;) Actually, this does give a *very* simplified view of it from an end-users perspective ... think of X as Windows 3.1 over DOS ... note that that is the easiest thing for an *end-user* to grasp, since it gives them a reference point that 99.9% of end-users can understand ... Now, from an admin standpoint, that isn't even close ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 13 09:08:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB8716A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:08:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (ns0.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.69.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8ACE43D45 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:::1])i3DG8I6A095315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:08:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: (from matthew@localhost)id i3DG8Iu7095314; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:08:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:08:18 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman To: Joshua Lokken Message-ID: <20040413160818.GA94448@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Joshua Lokken , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040407, clamav-milter version 0.70g cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:08:26 -0000 --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 08:37:04AM -0700, Joshua Lokken wrote: > I just had a co-worker tell me that his opinion of *NIX is that it's > "just advanced DOS." I had to roll on the floor for a few minutes, > laughing... ;) In the same sense that an 18-wheel truck is the same thing as a donkey cart, yes. I trust your colleague will be a long time living that one down... Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAfBBydtESqEQa7a0RAntMAKCFNkaKP9m0TMgYOLpwu32zCs4OqgCfevJd DVJzYZ611zGQmw50YspdDr4= =A7VQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 13 09:21:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C381F16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from voyager.twobirds.us (c-24-18-214-102.client.comcast.net [24.18.214.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746E643D1F for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:21:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joshua@twobirds.us) Received: from [63.226.239.158] (helo=twobirds.us) by voyager.twobirds.us with smtp (Exim 4.31; FreeBSD) id 1BDQek-0004AL-47 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:21:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:20:42 -0700 From: Joshua Lokken To: Matthew Seaman Message-ID: <20040413162042.GB2204@joloxbox> References: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> <20040413160818.GA94448@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040413160818.GA94448@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Organization: Little to none... cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:21:09 -0000 * Matthew Seaman [2004-04-13 09:08]: > On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 08:37:04AM -0700, Joshua Lokken wrote: > > > I just had a co-worker tell me that his opinion of *NIX is that it's > > "just advanced DOS." I had to roll on the floor for a few minutes, > > laughing... ;) > > In the same sense that an 18-wheel truck is the same thing as a donkey > cart, yes. > > I trust your colleague will be a long time living that one down... Unfortunately, I have a feeling that most all of my co-workers feel about the same way. I am, however, quite nostalgic about my love for things *NIX, so to me, Mutt and Links are perfect, while others walk by my desk and chuckle about my crude choice of apps... -- Joshua Worlds may change, galaxies disintegrate, but a woman always remains a woman. -- Kirk, "The Conscience of the King", stardate 2818.9 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 13 10:23:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C81916A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417D443D41 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:23:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:24:41 -0500 Message-ID: <407C2229.7000901@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:23:53 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040406 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joshua Lokken References: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> <20040413160818.GA94448@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> <20040413162042.GB2204@joloxbox> In-Reply-To: <20040413162042.GB2204@joloxbox> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2004 17:24:42.0250 (UTC) FILETIME=[35068EA0:01C4217C] cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:23:58 -0000 Joshua Lokken wrote: >* Matthew Seaman [2004-04-13 09:08]: > > >>On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 08:37:04AM -0700, Joshua Lokken wrote: >> >>In the same sense that an 18-wheel truck is the same thing as a donkey >>cart, yes. >> >>I trust your colleague will be a long time living that one down... >> >> > >Unfortunately, I have a feeling that most all of my co-workers feel >about the same way. I am, however, quite nostalgic about my love for >things *NIX, so to me, Mutt and Links are perfect, while others walk >by my desk and chuckle about my crude choice of apps... > > So, you don't run any X? Why be that nostalgic? You *could* show them the "softer side of *Nix, although, of course, that's entirely up to you, I guess; maybe you have good reasons. I really think that most anyone who can use the Windows GUI can use GNOME, for example, and usually with better results. The newer Windows stuff is more stable, perhaps than the DOS-based versions, but AFAICT it's just a slightly less debilitating case of the same old sickness ... My FreeBSD box as nearly as pretty as any Winbox around here, and does almost everything they do, with the notable exception of a few games, dumping core on a wide variety of programs at least once/day, requiring the same frequency of reboots, etc. Plus, it's the gateway, intranet, file storage, and DNS server for all of 'em, too... Try putting one of your colleagues on the PDC && Exchange Server and see what kind of performance he gets then... Heh, better yet, send 'em all a virus. Need any? :-D Viva la BSD! Kevin Kinsey P.S. No, I don't write 'em, but I've a nice collection thanks to amavisd and clamav ... and our mutual colleagues' Winboxen! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 13 14:50:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E086A16A4CF for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ren.sasknow.com (ren.sasknow.com [207.195.92.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE5A43D1D for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from earl.sasknow.net (earl.sasknow.net [207.195.92.130]) by ren.sasknow.com (8.12.9p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3DLo3ag069043; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:50:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from earl.sasknow.net (earl.sasknow.net [207.195.92.130]) by earl.sasknow.net (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3DLo2OM006495; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:50:02 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:50:02 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: Joshua Lokken In-Reply-To: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> Message-ID: <20040413153552.G83142@earl.sasknow.net> References: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on earl.sasknow.net X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040401, clamav-milter version 0.70d cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:50:05 -0000 Joshua Lokken wrote to freebsd-chat@freebsd.org: > I just had a co-worker tell me that his opinion of *NIX is that it's > "just advanced DOS." I had to roll on the floor for a few minutes, > laughing... ;) Heh. Yeah, unfortunately, neither your co-worker's attitude, nor your rolling on the floor, are uncommon, here. After all, a grey C:\> on a black background doesn't look that much different from a grey bash$ on a black background. :-) Actually, you should be impressed that your co-worker made such a connection; at least he has some (however small) level of experience with command line environments. Worse yet is when people see a prompt and go "What the hell is *that*?" One employee of mine (who has an accounting/managerial background) was a little flustered, at first, by some of our FreeBSD systems. For instance, to look up a domain name, I instructed him in the use of the "whois" command. After several failed attempts, the call came: "This DOS sh*t f***s me up, but know I need to learn it" was his candid, yet appropriately subordinate response. He has learned much since those wobbly first steps. - Ryan -- Ryan Thompson SaskNow Technologies - http://www.sasknow.com 901-1st Avenue North - Saskatoon, SK - S7K 1Y4 Tel: 306-664-3600 Fax: 306-244-7037 Saskatoon Toll-Free: 877-727-5669 (877-SASKNOW) North America From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 13 16:19:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 192D516A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C548443D49 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:20:16 -0500 Message-ID: <407C7581.7010807@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:19:29 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040406 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Thompson References: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> <20040413153552.G83142@earl.sasknow.net> In-Reply-To: <20040413153552.G83142@earl.sasknow.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2004 23:20:19.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2BCF670:01C421AD] cc: Joshua Lokken cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:19:34 -0000 Ryan Thompson wrote: >Joshua Lokken wrote to freebsd-chat@freebsd.org: > > >>I just had a co-worker tell me that his opinion of *NIX is that it's >>"just advanced DOS." I had to roll on the floor for a few minutes, >>laughing... ;) >> >> > > > >After all, a grey C:\> on a black background doesn't look that much >different from a grey bash$ on a black background. :-) Actually, you >should be impressed that your co-worker made such a connection; at least >he has some (however small) level of experience with command line >environments. > > > Maybe. However, to safeguard against such things, can't we run some little GUI on desktop machines? Unless you're in the server room, why convince the world we're still living in 1985? OK, since it's FreeBSD, maybe you *are* in the server room. A little wm, a little root window decorated with your SO, your company logo, your kids, your dog, some chick wrapped in plastic*, whatever, is more "modern". I didn't say better; you and I know it makes little difference to us. But you have a difficult uphill battle to convince Johnny Q. Public of that. Color it up a bit. You might even make some of them curious enough to learn more about it.... >Worse yet is when people see a prompt and go "What the hell is *that*?" > > > I know some of those people, I think. What's bad about that? They operate computers in their workplaces... >He has learned much since those wobbly first steps. > > And _that_ is a great thing about the BSD's.... Kevin Kinsey *Hey, it's -chat ... I'm not advocating anything about _that_ here, make up your own mind.... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 00:12:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C2F16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vmail.unina.it (vmail.unina.it [192.132.34.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 403B043D53 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dbmail@vmail.unina.it) Received: by vmail.unina.it (Postfix, from userid 202) id 591C7FFD3; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:11:50 +0200 (CEST) From: dbmail-bounce@dbmail.org To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040414071150.591C7FFD3@vmail.unina.it> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:11:50 +0200 (CEST) Subject: DBMAIL: delivery failure X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:12:22 -0000 This is the DBMAIL-SMTP program. I'm sorry to inform you that your message, addressed to hostmaster@it.freebsd.org, could not be delivered due to the following error. *** E-mail address hostmaster@it.freebsd.org is not known here. *** If you think this message is incorrect please contact dbmail@dbmail.org. Header of your message follows... --- header of your message --- Received: from it.freebsd.org (s178193.bb178.so-net.com.hk [203.99.178.193]) by vmail.unina.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A66F10297 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2004 19:35:18 +0200 (CEST) From: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org To: hostmaster@it.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Question Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 01:35:51 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016----=_NextPart_000_0016" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-Id: <20040411173518.3A66F10297@vmail.unina.it> --- end of header --- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 03:48:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7AB16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from praetor.linc-it.com (adsl-068-157-070-217.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [68.157.70.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A1043D41 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:48:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-222-79-36.jan.bellsouth.net [68.222.79.36]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by praetor.linc-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278FB157E1; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:48:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 025AF20F2A; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:48:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:48:41 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Message-ID: <20040414104841.GC1274@over-yonder.net> References: <20040413153704.GB3304@joloxbox> <20040413153552.G83142@earl.sasknow.net> <407C7581.7010807@daleco.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <407C7581.7010807@daleco.biz> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i-fullermd.2 cc: Joshua Lokken cc: Ryan Thompson cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:48:48 -0000 On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 06:19:29PM -0500 I heard the voice of Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P., and lo! it spake thus: > > A little wm, a little root window decorated with your SO, your > company logo, your kids, your dog, some chick wrapped in plastic*, Cotton, not plastic. Show the softer side, y'know. > But you have a difficult uphill battle to convince Johnny Q. Public > of that. Color it up a bit. You might even make some of them > curious enough to learn more about it.... Or, you could just use the apps that work well for you, and pretend it's a workstation rather than a billboard... All my Linux-using friends chuckle at the sight of me sitting there running ctwm. I chuckle back every other week as they describe blowing a day upgrading to the latest {KDE,Gnome} and how pretty the 2/3 of apps that still work are. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 04:11:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983D216A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [66.111.41.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792AD43D41 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id CB9F27B4; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9EA96B9; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:11:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20040414104841.GC1274@over-yonder.net> Message-ID: <20040414041022.T6723-100000@moo.sysabend.org> X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Joshua Lokken cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Ryan Thompson Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:11:08 -0000 On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > All my Linux-using friends chuckle at the sight of me sitting there > running ctwm. I chuckle back every other week as they describe blowing > a day upgrading to the latest {KDE,Gnome} and how pretty the 2/3 of apps > that still work are. I thought I was the last person on the planet still running ctwm. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 04:48:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCC9B16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8AB43D2F for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3EBm5qC012124; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:48:05 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:48:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: otterr@speakeasy.net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040414074807.M74058@zoraida.natserv.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: Multiuser game for FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:48:07 -0000 On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 otterr@speakeasy.net wrote: > xfrisk is one of my favorites. it's risk, but on xf86. > -ott Wife hates risk game. :-( Every time I play the board game with family/friends she gets angry at me because of how long the game runs and because she just doesn't like it. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 05:48:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB7F16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4B043D5A for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:48:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from maul.immure.com (adsl-66-136-206-1.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [66.136.206.1])i3ECms2G103310 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:48:55 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by maul.immure.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) id i3ECmssj064044 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:48:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [10.1.132.3]) by maul.immure.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3ECmred064019 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:48:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@immure.com) Received: from luke.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by luke.immure.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3ECmr00051173 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:48:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i3ECmrst051172 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:48:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:48:53 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040414124853.GC44079@luke.immure.com> References: <20040414104841.GC1274@over-yonder.net> <20040414041022.T6723-100000@moo.sysabend.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040414041022.T6723-100000@moo.sysabend.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-scanner: scanned by Inflex 1.0.12.3 on maul.immure.com Subject: Re: advanced DOS X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bob Willcox List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:48:56 -0000 On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 04:11:07AM -0700, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > > All my Linux-using friends chuckle at the sight of me sitting there > > running ctwm. I chuckle back every other week as they describe blowing > > a day upgrading to the latest {KDE,Gnome} and how pretty the 2/3 of apps > > that still work are. > > I thought I was the last person on the planet still running ctwm. Nope, you're not. I've been using it for almost 10 years now and don't intend to change! Bob > > Jamie Bowden > -- Bob Willcox What's done to children, they will do to society. bob@immure.com Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 16:59:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4C916A520 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grover.logicsquad.net (ppp38-178.lns1.adl1.internode.on.net [150.101.38.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 75FA843D31 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:59:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paulh@logicsquad.net) Received: (qmail 30365 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Apr 2004 23:59:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:29:20 +0930 From: "Paul A. Hoadley" To: Peter Leftwich Message-ID: <20040414235920.GC29612@grover.logicsquad.net> References: <12586.63.109.229.22.1081967765.squirrel@webmail.alienwebshop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/e2eDi0V/xtL+Mc8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <12586.63.109.229.22.1081967765.squirrel@webmail.alienwebshop.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lament about freebsd sacrifices X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:59:26 -0000 --/e2eDi0V/xtL+Mc8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Moved to -chat] On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 11:36:05AM -0700, Peter Leftwich wrote: > I thought I would post this as something of a warning. Using > FreeBSD as a primary, non-dual-boot OS means sacrificing. Here is a > partial list of sacrifices, as compared to Microsoft Windows XP: > > * webcam ball > * flatbed scanner > * color printer > * digital cameras > * firewire devices > * several USB 1 and 2 devices > * IM software features such as voice and video chat > * websites that use ActiveX (Windows) controls > * MP3 devices > > Any major sacrifices I've forgotten? ":-\ Yes, several. When I use FreeBSD, I really miss things like: * Paying for the operating system * Having to re-boot the machine every time I install a driver or apply an update patch * Being susceptible to all the latest malware * Having that great Registry for all my system configuration information --=20 Paul. mailto:paulh@logicsquad.net --/e2eDi0V/xtL+Mc8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAfdBY730Z/jysbzIRAt3tAJ42FfNWCUoHPHuh7ZSWW+h3wXHcigCfSoMT 6pt5nEjIi28DQbayxZ9k+Ro= =2b3X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/e2eDi0V/xtL+Mc8-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 17:12:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 383A716A4CF for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (adsl-63-193-123-122.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.123.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0258D43D55 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i3F0Cbs7060315 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:12:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@bunrab.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i3F0CbqN060314 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:12:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:12:37 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <200404150012.i3F0CbqN060314@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20040414235920.GC29612@grover.logicsquad.net> Subject: Re: lament about freebsd sacrifices X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:12:38 -0000 >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:29:20 +0930 >From: "Paul A. Hoadley" >To: Peter Leftwich >Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org >Subject: Re: lament about freebsd sacrifices >Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org >> I thought I would post this as something of a warning. Using >> FreeBSD as a primary, non-dual-boot OS means sacrificing. Here is a >> partial list of sacrifices, as compared to Microsoft Windows XP: >> * digital cameras Counterpoint: Actually, my wife couldn't get the manufacturer's software for her digital camera (re-)installed on her laptop successfully. (No, I don't recall if it's XP or what. It's Microsoft. I only provide basic network connectivity for it.) I plugged the USB connector in to my laptop, whereupon FreeBSD saw a rather slow SCSI disk. So I mounted it as an msdos-fs (read-only), and used tar to pick up everything on the 600+ MB disk, and copy it to a machine where we could do something useful with the pictures. :-} OK; it was a kludge. However, it had the singular virtue of working. Peace, david (who doesn't use Microsoft stuff) -- David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org I do not "unsubscribe" from email "services" to which I have not explicitly subscribed. Rather, I block spammers' access to SMTP servers I control, and encourage others who are in a position to do so to do likewise. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 17:40:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332A716A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0460B43D5A for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:40:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3F0eVQ9037301; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:10:32 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:10:30 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <12586.63.109.229.22.1081967765.squirrel@webmail.alienwebshop.com> <20040414235920.GC29612@grover.logicsquad.net> In-Reply-To: <20040414235920.GC29612@grover.logicsquad.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404151010.30144.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -4.4 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_KMAIL X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: Peter Leftwich Subject: Re: lament about freebsd sacrifices X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:40:38 -0000 On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:29, Paul A. Hoadley wrote: > On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 11:36:05AM -0700, Peter Leftwich wrote: > > I thought I would post this as something of a warning. Using > > FreeBSD as a primary, non-dual-boot OS means sacrificing. Here is a > > partial list of sacrifices, as compared to Microsoft Windows XP: Perhaps you should list model numbers, because (as I listed below) there are plenty of counter examples > > * webcam ball Never had one, though support is around for a few chipsets. > > * flatbed scanner HP ScanJet 5200C (USB). > > * color printer Epson 880, HP Deskjet 540, Canon BJ230.. > > * digital cameras Kodak DC240, several of umass compliant cameras, or try gphoto2. > > * firewire devices I have tried an IPod and several types of HD enclosure which work fine. Havne't tried a video camera but I would expect it to work. > > * several USB 1 and 2 devices Flash card reader, mouse, keyboard, scanner, printer. (Although USB2 hub support doesn't exist yet) > > * IM software features such as voice and video chat Hmm, well I haven't had any experience with that, but TeamSpeak works pretty well for voice chat in games. > > * websites that use ActiveX (Windows) controls Hehe.. ahem.. Crossover Office perhaps? > > * MP3 devices Like what? > * Having to re-boot the machine every time I install a driver or apply > an update patch This (in my experience) is not an issue with XP/2000. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 17:40:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 637EA16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C0143D58 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:40:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3F0eupX027010 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:40:56 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:41:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: FreeBSD Chat List Message-ID: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:40:57 -0000 As some of you may have seen on Daemonnews Poul-Henning Kamp recently setup a donation drive http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/funding.html I had been keeping an eye on the process and today I saw that pair networks donated 20,000. I hope it was not a typo or error on their part and that it's true. :-) http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/donations.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 17:45:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6C116A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [207.154.84.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D8AE343D54 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:45:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@magnesium.net) Received: (qmail 35769 invoked by uid 1206); 15 Apr 2004 00:45:46 -0000 Date: 14 Apr 2004 17:45:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:45:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@toxic.magnesium.net To: Francisco Reyes In-Reply-To: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20040414174529.E3256@toxic.magnesium.net> References: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:45:47 -0000 On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote: > As some of you may have seen on Daemonnews Poul-Henning Kamp recently > setup a donation drive http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/funding.html > > I had been keeping an eye on the process and today I saw that pair > networks donated 20,000. I hope it was not a typo or error on their part > and that it's true. :-) WOW! very good. That's US$20,000 Good on them! -- Dan Langille - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 17:53:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A508E16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grover.logicsquad.net (ppp38-178.lns1.adl1.internode.on.net [150.101.38.178]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 280E543D53 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:53:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paulh@logicsquad.net) Received: (qmail 31251 invoked by uid 1000); 15 Apr 2004 00:53:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:23:38 +0930 From: "Paul A. Hoadley" To: Daniel O'Connor Message-ID: <20040415005338.GF29612@grover.logicsquad.net> References: <12586.63.109.229.22.1081967765.squirrel@webmail.alienwebshop.com> <20040414235920.GC29612@grover.logicsquad.net> <200404151010.30144.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xkXJwpr35CY/Lc3I" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200404151010.30144.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Peter Leftwich Subject: Re: lament about freebsd sacrifices X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:53:43 -0000 --xkXJwpr35CY/Lc3I Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 10:10:30AM +0930, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:29, Paul A. Hoadley wrote: > > > * Having to re-boot the machine every time I install a driver or > > apply an update patch >=20 > This (in my experience) is not an issue with XP/2000. IIRC, the last time it happened to me was two weeks ago on installing a driver for a USB->Bluetooth adapter on Windows XP. Looks like everyone's mileage varies as usual. :-) --=20 Paul. mailto:paulh@logicsquad.net --xkXJwpr35CY/Lc3I Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAfd0S730Z/jysbzIRAs+IAJ4n7J+pOSzJe8kJkLlZBg8J3ARXAwCeOlw/ l5nMTKUmKdkspJD6K5AwYp0= =BXtg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xkXJwpr35CY/Lc3I-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 18:19:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A00116A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tisys.org (roesisworld.de [69.28.244.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A97943D5A for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:19:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nils@tisys.org) Received: from rosi.tisys.org (dialin-pool1-10.wobline.de [62.176.226.10]) by tisys.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3F1JLT04932 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:19:21 -0700 From: Nils Holland Organization: Ti Systems To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:18:57 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> In-Reply-To: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404150318.57862.nils@tisys.org> Subject: Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:19:20 -0000 On Thursday 15 April 2004 02:41, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > As some of you may have seen on Daemonnews Poul-Henning Kamp recently > setup a donation drive http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/funding.html > > I had been keeping an eye on the process and today I saw that pair > networks donated 20,000. I hope it was not a typo or error on their part > and that it's true. :-) Well, this sounds really great! And it definately makes me think about moving over to Pair for my webhosting needs in order to show them my support. My current webhost was using FreeBSD until the end of last year, and then moved everything to Linux for reasons that have remained unknown to me. I've never really been happy with that, however, and now that I've seen that Pair actually and *really* supports FreeBSD, this would be an excellent chance for me to support *them*. ;-) Greetings, Nils From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 18:46:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C7516A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCD943D58 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:46:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3F1jxgp035478; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:46:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200404150318.57862.nils@tisys.org> References: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> <200404150318.57862.nils@tisys.org> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:45:29 +0200 To: Nils Holland From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:46:24 -0000 At 3:18 AM +0200 2004/04/15, Nils Holland wrote: > I've > never really been happy with that, however, and now that I've seen that > Pair actually and *really* supports FreeBSD, this would be an excellent > chance for me to support *them*. ;-) Indeed. Does anyone know if Pair does co-location, as well as web hosting? -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 19:43:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F5B16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from olmec.nighttide.net (jasper.nighttide.net [207.5.141.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E24243D2D for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:43:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Received: from localhost (darren@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olmec.nighttide.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3F2hlLA071781 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:43:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from darren@nighttide.net) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:43:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Darren Henderson To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200404150318.57862.nils@tisys.org> Message-ID: References: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> <200404150318.57862.nils@tisys.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:43:49 -0000 On Thu, 15 Apr 2004, Nils Holland wrote: > Well, this sounds really great! And it definately makes me think about moving > over to Pair for my webhosting needs in order to show them my support. My pair is a great company to work with - they know their stuff. Kevin Martin, the owner of the company, is responsive and pops up now and then in their support news groups. Can't say enough good things about them. They give back quite a bit (see http://www.pair.com/about/community/giving_back.html). They have some "shadow drive" functionality that I would love to see folded back into FreeBSD. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@nighttide.net Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 14 20:31:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EE816A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CDAF43D2F for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kitbsdlist2@HotPOP.com) Received: from vixen42. (unverified [24.119.123.61]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 2618253 for multiple; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:20:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:28:46 -0500 From: Vulpes Velox To: "Paul A. Hoadley" Message-Id: <20040414202846.6d6ae75f@vixen42.> In-Reply-To: <20040414235920.GC29612@grover.logicsquad.net> References: <12586.63.109.229.22.1081967765.squirrel@webmail.alienwebshop.com> <20040414235920.GC29612@grover.logicsquad.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com cc: Peter Leftwich cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lament about freebsd sacrifices X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 03:31:21 -0000 On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:29:20 +0930 "Paul A. Hoadley" wrote: > [Moved to -chat] > > On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 11:36:05AM -0700, Peter Leftwich wrote: > > > I thought I would post this as something of a warning. Using > > FreeBSD as a primary, non-dual-boot OS means sacrificing. Here is > > a partial list of sacrifices, as compared to Microsoft Windows XP: > > > > * webcam ball > > * flatbed scanner > > * color printer > > * digital cameras > > * firewire devices > > * several USB 1 and 2 devices > > * IM software features such as voice and video chat > > * websites that use ActiveX (Windows) controls > > * MP3 devices > > > > Any major sacrifices I've forgotten? ":-\ Think of as a chance to encourange hardware makers to make hardware that does not suck and actually confirms to actual standards. BTW firewire support exists under FBSD. Don't see why not being able to use websites that think ActiveX is for web is a bad thing. I personally would put this on there as a definite positive. Check the ports, you will find software capable of voice and video chat. Digital cameras do not work well under FBSD? I personally like FBSDs ability to access flash cards and it is possible with nearly any cheap flash card reader readily aviable at nearly any halfway decent store. The same is true MP3 devices. In many of these areas it basically boils down to don't support companies that make bad hardware as you will get screwed regardless of what OS you are running, including windows. Why even windows? What if this fly by night company disappears or a new version of windows is released then what are you going to do for hardware support? Simple, you are generally screwed. If you support good hardware, your time will be nicely rewarded. I have been finding outside of playing the occasional game, I have no reason to use windows what so ever since what I need and want is generally as well as supported under FBSD as on Windows and in some areas even better supported. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 15 00:01:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909D716A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.69.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495CF43D1D for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) i3F715bA040449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:01:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: (from matthew@localhost)id i3F714e4040448; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:01:04 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:01:04 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman To: Darren Henderson Message-ID: <20040415070104.GB40193@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Darren Henderson , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> <200404150318.57862.nils@tisys.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="eJnRUKwClWJh1Khz" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Scanned: clamd / ClamAV version devel-20040407, clamav-milter version 0.70g cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Shadow filesystems [was Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp??] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:01:11 -0000 --eJnRUKwClWJh1Khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 10:43:47PM -0400, Darren Henderson wrote: > They have some "shadow drive" functionality that I would love to see > folded back into FreeBSD. Hmmm... that's a coincidence. Is this the same sort of thing as the 'Shadow Drive' function under Windows 2003? That is, a system that keeps backup copies of files etc. over time, so if you happen to accidentally delete something you shouldn't have, you can resurrect it without having to go running to your Sys-admin to beg them to get it back from the backup tapes. Sounds conceptually like a slightly more elaborate version the old VMS file versioning thing, or the GNU numbered backup trick you can do with emacs etc. I was talking with one of the IT people at a company I'm doing some work for and he was waxing lyrical about having this in a new SBS 2003 system he'll be bringing on-line soon. First I'd ever heard of such a thing. --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK --eJnRUKwClWJh1Khz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAfjMwdtESqEQa7a0RAreYAJ950JEgI2D05PYn8gwx54c7wv/2tQCfU3WR MB+A+/vmSLtiEWsXJK+8JdQ= =9zEM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --eJnRUKwClWJh1Khz-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 15 05:23:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB0B16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7189E43D1F for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i3FCNAQ9062055; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:53:11 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:53:09 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> <20040415070104.GB40193@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20040415070104.GB40193@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404152153.09146.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -4.4 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_KMAIL X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) Subject: Re: Shadow filesystems [was Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp??] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:23:16 -0000 On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:31, Matthew Seaman wrote: > On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 10:43:47PM -0400, Darren Henderson wrote: > > They have some "shadow drive" functionality that I would love to see > > folded back into FreeBSD. > > Hmmm... that's a coincidence. Is this the same sort of thing as the > 'Shadow Drive' function under Windows 2003? That is, a system that > keeps backup copies of files etc. over time, so if you happen to > accidentally delete something you shouldn't have, you can resurrect it > without having to go running to your Sys-admin to beg them to get it > back from the backup tapes. Sounds conceptually like a slightly more > elaborate version the old VMS file versioning thing, or the GNU > numbered backup trick you can do with emacs etc. mksnap_ffs? :) (Plus some helper stuff..) -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 15 05:43:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0370C16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51DD943D4C for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:43:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3FChCT8014930; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:43:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:44:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: Dan Langille In-Reply-To: <20040414174529.E3256@toxic.magnesium.net> Message-ID: <20040415083701.I83605@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> <20040414174529.E3256@toxic.magnesium.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:43:14 -0000 On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Dan Langille wrote: > On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote: ... > > I had been keeping an eye on the process and today I saw that pair > > networks donated 20,000. ... >WOW! very good. That's US$20,000 > Good on them! I hope they get a good return of investment. I figure if PHK can make FreeBSD more efficient Pair Networks will be able to host more domains with the same number of machines. I only wish other companies viewed opensource programs they use the same way as Pair Networks and invested in them. Investments in opensource is a Win - Win situation for all involved. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 15 13:23:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F39E16A4CE for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaw6.prodigy.net (mtaw6.prodigy.net [64.164.98.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF02C43D4C for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:23:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (0c21b4467259724b3341f7addde0c282@adsl-67-115-73-128.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [67.115.73.128]) by mtaw6.prodigy.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3FKLspT005981; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CB0C852345; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:23:03 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: "Daniel O'Connor" Message-ID: <20040415202303.GA72458@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20040414203743.E77439@zoraida.natserv.net> <20040415070104.GB40193@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> <200404152153.09146.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0F1p//8PRICkK4MW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200404152153.09146.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Shadow filesystems [was Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp??] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:23:09 -0000 --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 09:53:09PM +0930, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:31, Matthew Seaman wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 10:43:47PM -0400, Darren Henderson wrote: > > > They have some "shadow drive" functionality that I would love to see > > > folded back into FreeBSD. > > > > Hmmm... that's a coincidence. Is this the same sort of thing as the > > 'Shadow Drive' function under Windows 2003? That is, a system that > > keeps backup copies of files etc. over time, so if you happen to > > accidentally delete something you shouldn't have, you can resurrect it > > without having to go running to your Sys-admin to beg them to get it > > back from the backup tapes. Sounds conceptually like a slightly more > > elaborate version the old VMS file versioning thing, or the GNU > > numbered backup trick you can do with emacs etc. >=20 > mksnap_ffs? :) > (Plus some helper stuff..) I once played around with a cron job that rotated a set of snapshots, but there were problems with deadlocking and I didnt have time to report the bugs properly to Kirk. This would be a great project for someone to work on (reporting the bugs in snapshots, that is ;). Kris --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAfu8nWry0BWjoQKURAkXmAKCL+eJwOf38EeDXl0555OGi3fNmYQCffpQj YE2zU69O7AZITDT7rnlfpBg= =eb++ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 07:37:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E740816A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948E343D1D for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:37:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1BEUTa-0007aa-00; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:37:54 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:37:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: pick a mail client for my wife X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:37:59 -0000 My wife has been using sylpheed for over a year. She has used various versions of sylpheed and sylpheed claws. She does not like it. It continually reflags her read emails as unread (bold again). It does not display attached images. Setting up a mailcap is not known to her. It is now slow to retrieve emails. (It retrieves fine but then redraws the top list numerous times as it indexes(?) the new emails.) What should she try? It needs to be a friendly, point-and-click GUI interface. Hopefully lightweight without needs for KDE, QT3, nor GNOME libraries (but maybe that is not possible). Evolution? Thunderbird? Kmail? (Maybe not enough features?) Balsa/Balsa2? She has many emails in MH format (to convert if needed). Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 07:43:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB8116A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A011D43D41 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kirma@cs.hut.fi) Received: from kirma (helo=localhost) by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with local-esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BEUZ0-0004Dt-C0 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:43:30 +0300 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:43:30 +0300 (EEST) From: Jari Kirma To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Shadow filesystems [was Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp??] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:43:32 -0000 > Hmmm... that's a coincidence. Is this the same sort of thing as the > 'Shadow Drive' function under Windows 2003? That is, a system that > keeps backup copies of files etc. over time, so if you happen to > accidentally delete something you shouldn't have, you can resurrect it > without having to go running to your Sys-admin to beg them to get it > back from the backup tapes. Sounds conceptually like a slightly more > elaborate version the old VMS file versioning thing, or the GNU > numbered backup trick you can do with emacs etc. I played with the idea of "reliable undelete" functionality some time ago. The essential idea was to reduce those unfortunate cases where a user has created large amounts of creative stuff (in university, that'd be code, essay or something like that at the last minute before the deadline:), and being tired after all work, fumbled and deleted the work in some unbelievably idiotic way. There wouldn't be a trace of it in backups, because the file was created after last backup snapshot and deleted before the next, so, only something like "reliable undelete" would do the work, and probably do it in 95% of those different stupid errors. The main idea was to hook unlink/rename routines so that in some way controlled cases they would actually either move the file to be removed to certain location and a userland daemon would be notified to handle it further, or the file handle would be given to the daemon in some magical way and kernel would wait it to move it. One more addition, hooking of truncate/ftruncate to zero would provide some protection against cp, but that would be more complicated to implement. In essence, this would provide versioned files, although strangely the versions would be snapshots of files at their destruction time... and it wouldn't matter if file existed for a month or a second, version would be generated if wanted. Of course, context switching and disk updates would probably increase, as well as file systems getting filled, and potentially more fragmented due "delayed unlinks." -kirma From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 08:44:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5390D16A4CF for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tisys.org (roesisworld.de [69.28.244.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5B643D48 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:44:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nils@tisys.org) Received: from rosi.tisys.org (dialin-pool2-180.wobline.de [62.176.227.180]) by tisys.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3GFhxT08176; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:43:59 -0700 From: Nils Holland Organization: Ti Systems To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:43:30 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404161743.30418.nils@tisys.org> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pick a mail client for my wife X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:44:10 -0000 On Friday 16 April 2004 16:37, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > > What should she try? Well, just for the fun of it, let me give my opinion on the mail clients already mentioned by you: > Evolution? I tried this a while ago, and I didn't really like it. That might actually have been due to the fact that I wanted a mail client and *only* a mail client. If you want something that goes beyond that and kind of offers the functionality MS Outlook does, this might indeed be a good choice. > Thunderbird? Never tried this under BSD, but I saw this running on a friend's machine under Windows. Of course, it's basically the Mozilla mail client without Mozilla, but I kind of liked it. This "intelligent" spam detection thing built into it looks really good, though I had no chance to play around with my friend's machine long enough to find out everything there is about it, and I guess I would filter SPAM on the mailserver whenever possible. ;-) > Kmail? (Maybe not enough features?) Actually, that's what I use. Of course, it would depend on quite some things - you don't need the whole KDE to run it, but QT and kdelibs are the least you'll have to install before you can install KMail from kdenetwork. Feature-wise, I guess I'm really happy with it! At least it does what I want it to and I've not yet found anything I miss. If you want to go with something more like Outlook or Evolution, I guess KDE's "Kontact" would be something for you. I only had a short look at it, but I guess a suitable simplified description would be that it "bundles" KMail and KOrganizer into something Outlook-like. ;-) > Balsa/Balsa2? Hmm, I was using Balsa some three years ago or so. I guess a lot has changed since than, and I must admit that I don't really remember if I was happy with it or not. So yeah, I think I won't be able to give my comment on this one. *g* Hope that helps ... if not, I hope it was at least entertaining or something. ;-) Greetings, Nils From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 10:13:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3899716A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37B243D31 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:13:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:13:46 -0500 Message-ID: <40801419.5060707@daleco.biz> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:12:57 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040406 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jeremy C. Reed" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Apr 2004 17:13:47.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[2DEDCFF0:01C423D6] cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pick a mail client for my wife X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:13:01 -0000 Jeremy C. Reed wrote: >My wife has been using sylpheed for over a year. > >What should she try? It needs to be a friendly, point-and-click GUI >interface. Hopefully lightweight without needs for KDE, QT3, nor GNOME >libraries (but maybe that is not possible). > >Evolution? > >Thunderbird? > > > I like Mozilla mail well enough. If this bird flies like Mozilla, it might work. [But doesn't it require glib, gtk, pango? ] Possible drawbacks: * I'm experience what might be a bug, or at least bad config: when certain users post to the lists (Oriental sounding names, generally) Mozilla mail hangs and then all of Mozilla exits. Does your wife correspond with anyone in China? ;-) * The spam filter is *excellent*. But, as with all such bells/whistles, every once in a while it gets too smart, and deletes a message from someone whom I like, but who isn't too smart about what might get caught in a Baynesian filter (re: Hi, Kevin!! How's the family!!!) etc. If there are any other aggravations from this client, they'll likely be no worse, on any count, than using Lookout Expense. I can't comment on it's compliance with Greg Lehey's etiquette list, but it doesn't seem to offend too badly.... My $.02, Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 10:56:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00A8516A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cableone.net (scanmail2.cableone.net [24.116.0.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90E4643D45 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:56:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kitbsdlist2@HotPOP.com) Received: from vixen42. (unverified [24.119.123.61]) by smail2.cableone.net (SurgeMail 1.5d2) with ESMTP id 2929770 for multiple; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:46:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:54:19 -0500 From: Vulpes Velox To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Message-Id: <20040416105419.7da04c14@vixen42.> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server: High Performance Mail Server - http://surgemail.com cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pick a mail client for my wife X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:56:49 -0000 On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:37:54 -0700 (PDT) "Jeremy C. Reed" wrote: > My wife has been using sylpheed for over a year. She has used > various versions of sylpheed and sylpheed claws. > > She does not like it. It continually reflags her read emails as > unread(bold again). > > It does not display attached images. Setting up a mailcap is not > known to her. > > It is now slow to retrieve emails. (It retrieves fine but then > redraws the top list numerous times as it indexes(?) the new > emails.) > > What should she try? It needs to be a friendly, point-and-click GUI > interface. Hopefully lightweight without needs for KDE, QT3, nor > GNOME libraries (but maybe that is not possible). > > Evolution? > > Thunderbird? > > Kmail? (Maybe not enough features?) > > Balsa/Balsa2? Sylpheed-claws is a possibility. BTW is the program exiting abnormally or something? I've only seen messages marked as new when it exits abnormally and has not had a chance to make some changes to a file. It can also display images and html email too, if you want. I think this is also possible in sylpheed to. It works by a plugin. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 11:08:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34AC516A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B5F43D39 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3GI7ugn086756; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:07:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:56:50 +0200 To: Jari Kirma From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Shadow filesystems [was Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp??] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:08:02 -0000 At 5:43 PM +0300 2004/04/16, Jari Kirma wrote: > I played with the idea of "reliable undelete" functionality some time ago. After a catastrophic wipeout when I was a student at the University of Oklahoma about 20 years ago (causing me to work 36 hours straight to re-create all my hard work), I created a set of shell script tools to replace the "rm", "mv", "cp", etc... programs with something that would use a "~/.Trash" directory and then compress the files, etc.... When I first created these scripts, they were very popular, and widely used by the student community. IIRC, I posted a fairly final version of those scripts to comp.sources.*. ECN staff had a disagreement with me over these tools, thinking it unwise for people to get used to the "new" behaviour, which might lead them to get seriously screwed when they used "rm" somewhere else and it didn't act in the way they expected. However, it wasn't until after I had another massive wipeout (this time using vi to write a file into the wrong filename), that I decided that I agreed with them. So, I removed the scripts from my bin, although others could always go to the newsgroup archives and pull down their own version if they wanted. I don't think anyone did. If you really want to make something like this work, you have to cover all possible avenues of destruction, not just creat(), unlink(), and rename routines. Introduce a real filesystem versioning scheme, and I would gladly welcome your work. But please don't violate POLA, and please don't help to create a different set of user expectations that would cause users to get seriously hurt if/when they're on another OS. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 11:30:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3696D16A4CF for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0404543D64 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:30:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 6447 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2004 18:30:41 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 16 Apr 2004 18:30:41 -0000 Received: from 10.50.40.205 (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3GIUcf0002151; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:30:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: chat@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:30:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404161430.46372.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pick a mail client for my wife X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:30:44 -0000 On Friday 16 April 2004 10:37 am, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > My wife has been using sylpheed for over a year. She has used various > versions of sylpheed and sylpheed claws. > > She does not like it. It continually reflags her read emails as unread > (bold again). > > It does not display attached images. Setting up a mailcap is not known to > her. > > It is now slow to retrieve emails. (It retrieves fine but then redraws the > top list numerous times as it indexes(?) the new emails.) > > What should she try? It needs to be a friendly, point-and-click GUI > interface. Hopefully lightweight without needs for KDE, QT3, nor GNOME > libraries (but maybe that is not possible). My wife uses kmail and is fairly happy with it, but then again, I also have all of kde3 installed on the box we use for a desktop at home. I actually run a Cyrus server though, so we use kmail over IMAP, but I imagine if it can handle IMAP sanely, it should do very well for local mailboxes + POP3, etc. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 11:30:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5375116A4D0 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004D943D62 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:30:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 6447 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2004 18:30:41 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 16 Apr 2004 18:30:41 -0000 Received: from 10.50.40.205 (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3GIUcf0002151; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:30:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: chat@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:30:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404161430.46372.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pick a mail client for my wife X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:30:44 -0000 On Friday 16 April 2004 10:37 am, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > My wife has been using sylpheed for over a year. She has used various > versions of sylpheed and sylpheed claws. > > She does not like it. It continually reflags her read emails as unread > (bold again). > > It does not display attached images. Setting up a mailcap is not known to > her. > > It is now slow to retrieve emails. (It retrieves fine but then redraws the > top list numerous times as it indexes(?) the new emails.) > > What should she try? It needs to be a friendly, point-and-click GUI > interface. Hopefully lightweight without needs for KDE, QT3, nor GNOME > libraries (but maybe that is not possible). My wife uses kmail and is fairly happy with it, but then again, I also have all of kde3 installed on the box we use for a desktop at home. I actually run a Cyrus server though, so we use kmail over IMAP, but I imagine if it can handle IMAP sanely, it should do very well for local mailboxes + POP3, etc. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 16 12:28:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA5316A4CE for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96AD843D46 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kirma@cs.hut.fi) Received: from kirma (helo=localhost) by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with local-esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BEZ0o-0001gA-Ld; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:28:30 +0300 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:28:30 +0300 (EEST) From: Jari Kirma To: Brad Knowles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Shadow filesystems [was Re: Pair donates 20,000 to Poul-Henning Kamp??] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:28:32 -0000 On Fri, 16 Apr 2004, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 5:43 PM +0300 2004/04/16, Jari Kirma wrote: > > > I played with the idea of "reliable undelete" functionality some time ago. > > After a catastrophic wipeout when I was a student at the > University of Oklahoma about 20 years ago (causing me to work 36 > hours straight to re-create all my hard work), I created a set of > shell script tools to replace the "rm", "mv", "cp", etc... programs > with something that would use a "~/.Trash" directory and then > compress the files, etc.... When I first created these scripts, they > were very popular, and widely used by the student community. IIRC, I > posted a fairly final version of those scripts to comp.sources.*. This is of course the first thing that tends to come to mind. Less so in modern times of people using graphical file managers and such, though. OTOH, those tools tend to have windows-ish trashcan logic built in. > ECN staff had a disagreement with me over these tools, thinking > it unwise for people to get used to the "new" behaviour, which might > lead them to get seriously screwed when they used "rm" somewhere else > and it didn't act in the way they expected. However, it wasn't until > after I had another massive wipeout (this time using vi to write a > file into the wrong filename), that I decided that I agreed with them. This is quite true. It would be sort of better, though, if users would need to ask for admins to "recover" those files, and admins not telling how easy it is. That'd keep users from relying on stupid extras and us sysadmins getting our salary for something. :] > If you really want to make something like this work, you have to > cover all possible avenues of destruction, not just creat(), > unlink(), and rename routines. Introduce a real filesystem > versioning scheme, and I would gladly welcome your work. Compability with existing UNIX/POSIX-style software might be quite a challenge. > But please don't violate POLA, and please don't help to create a > different set of user expectations that would cause users to get > seriously hurt if/when they're on another OS. It's such a pity that folks always find ways to shoot themselves with a utility if it has more than one moving part, and they probably manage to injure themselves even if it has only one. -kirma From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 17 21:51:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB3316A4CE for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.tele-kom.ru (mx.tele-kom.ru [213.80.148.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2269F43D1F for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doublef@tele-kom.ru) Received: (qmail 83852 invoked by uid 555); 18 Apr 2004 08:51:09 +0400 Received: from shark (213.80.149.130) by t-k.ru with TeleMail/2 id 1082263868-83842 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Apr 08:51:08 2004 +0400 (MSD) Received: by shark (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C0A5EBD; Sun, 18 Apr 2004 08:51:00 +0400 (MSD) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 08:50:59 +0400 From: DoubleF To: Dan MacMillan Message-ID: <20040418045059.GA1320@Shark.localdomain> Mail-Followup-To: DoubleF , Dan MacMillan , Daniela , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <200404171050.29467.dgw@liwest.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD Shark.localdomain 4.8-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE cc: Daniela cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Beginning C++ in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 04:51:12 -0000 --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Moved to chat@] On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 09:30:24AM -0600, Dan MacMillan probably wrote: > From: Daniela > Sent: April 17, 2004 04:50 > > > > OO languages can be optimized differently than non-OO languages, and > > when you translate one language into another, this advantage gets lost. >=20 > I challenge you to defend this claim with a specific example. >=20 Let me leave this one to Daniela and defeat a more general claim, that C++ is not just C: The `canonical' (portable; standard-compatible) way to get something done either before or after main() is called, when main() has no awareness of the need to do it, is: a) in C++: creation of a static object, whose ctr/dtr contain the code to be executed before/after main; b) in C: >=20 > How does one properly do an assembly language program for the x86 > instruction set (for example) so that it will run on a StrongARM? >=20 One writes it in C instead:)... --=20 DoubleF I'm written in C++. CC me! --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAggkywo7hT/9lVdwRArbSAJ9wSpqQqN50TETGH99OAYno0GgDJQCdEnSh t7QM/N9mIZqLrF1/gCHfpmg= =qH7F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT--