From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 14 00:10:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF3C16A4CE; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:10:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nezlok.unixathome.org (nezlok.unixathome.org [66.154.97.250]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48A643D3F; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:10:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@nezlok.unixathome.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nezlok.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB42AE060; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from nezlok.unixathome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nezlok.unixathome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26132-07; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:10:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by nezlok.unixathome.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0121EAE05B; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:10:02 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Langille To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040314081002.0121EAE05B@nezlok.unixathome.org> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:10:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at unixathome.org Subject: The FreeBSD Diary: 2004-02-22 - 2004-03-13 X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:10:14 -0000 The FreeBSD Diary contains a large number of practical examples and how-to guides. This message is posted weekly to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org with the aim of letting people know what's available on the website. Before you post a question here it might be a good idea to first search the mailing list archives and/or The FreeBSD Diary . -- Dan Langille BSDCan - http://www.BSDCan.org/ - BSD Conference From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 14 01:40:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D2516A4CE for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pike.mail.pike.ru (pike.mail.pike.ru [194.135.18.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9833843D31 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:40:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DerAlSem@inbox.ru) Received: (qmail 46290 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2004 09:44:23 -0000 Received: from deralsem.pikenet.ru (HELO DERALDO) (194.135.17.85) by pike.mail.pike.ru with SMTP; 14 Mar 2004 09:44:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:40:03 +0300 From: DerAlSem X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <727792622.20040314124003@inbox.ru> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Linux mode X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: DerAlSem List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:40:12 -0000 Hello freebsd-newbies, su-2.05b# pkg_add -r linux_base Fetching ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/Latest/linux_base.tbz... Done. Linux mode is not enabled. Loading linux kernel module now... kldload: can't load linux: No such file or directory The linux kernel module could not be loaded. Please enable linux mode manually and retry. pkg_add: install script returned error status What's wrong with that? Just can't get linux mode working. ;-( -- Best regards, DerAlSem mailto:DerAlSem@inbox.ru From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 14 02:47:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0CD16A4CE for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 02:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from moonshine (213-84-173-33.adsl.xs4all.nl [213.84.173.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6860643D3F for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 02:47:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from albi@saynotomicrosoft.org) Received: from moonshine.eyfa.org (localhost.eyfa.org [127.0.0.1]) by moonshine (Postfix) with SMTP id D49382BD for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:47:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:47:55 +0100 From: albi To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20040314114755.38e9e35e@moonshine.eyfa.org> In-Reply-To: <727792622.20040314124003@inbox.ru> References: <727792622.20040314124003@inbox.ru> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.9claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Linux mode X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:47:49 -0000 On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:40:03 +0300 DerAlSem wrote: > su-2.05b# pkg_add -r linux_base > Fetching > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/Latest/linux_base.tbz... > Done. Linux mode is not enabled. > Loading linux kernel module now... > kldload: can't load linux: No such file or directory > The linux kernel module could not be loaded. > Please enable linux mode manually and retry. put this line in /etc/rc.conf : linux_enable="YES" (and reboot) From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 14 03:09:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E167E16A4CF for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:09:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from pike.mail.pike.ru (pike.mail.pike.ru [194.135.18.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F078C43D49 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:09:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DerAlSem@inbox.ru) Received: (qmail 60850 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2004 11:13:57 -0000 Received: from deralsem.pikenet.ru (HELO DERALDO) (194.135.17.85) by pike.mail.pike.ru with SMTP; 14 Mar 2004 11:13:57 -0000 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:09:38 +0300 From: DerAlSem X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <825172376.20040314140938@inbox.ru> To: albi In-Reply-To: <20040314114755.38e9e35e@moonshine.eyfa.org> References: <727792622.20040314124003@inbox.ru> <20040314114755.38e9e35e@moonshine.eyfa.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: Linux mode X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: DerAlSem List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:09:42 -0000 Hello albi, Sunday, March 14, 2004, 1:47:55 PM, you wrote: a> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:40:03 +0300 a> DerAlSem wrote: >> su-2.05b# pkg_add -r linux_base >> Fetching >> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-5.1-release/Latest/linux_base.tbz... >> Done. Linux mode is not enabled. >> Loading linux kernel module now... >> kldload: can't load linux: No such file or directory >> The linux kernel module could not be loaded. >> Please enable linux mode manually and retry. a> put this line in /etc/rc.conf : a> linux_enable="YES" a> (and reboot) it's there... i know about that... i can't even load it manualy, with kldload linux %( it seems, that there are no some needed files... -- Best regards, DerAlSem mailto:DerAlSem@inbox.ru From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 16 12:55:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8153916A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.prodigy.net.mx (nlpproxy01.prodigy.net.mx [148.235.52.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439EF43D46 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:55:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from teilhk@prodigy.net.mx) Received: from ARLETTE (dsl-201-128-115-34.prod-infinitum.com.mx [201.128.115.34]) by smtp.prodigy.net.mx (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with SMTP id <0HUO00BR9SS83H@smtp.prodigy.net.mx>; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:55:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:55:29 -0600 From: Teilhard Knight To: FreeBSD_Newbies Message-id: <058101c40b99$0411e540$230110ac@ARLETTE> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Subject: Mount cdrom X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:55:33 -0000 I hope this is the right place to ask. How do you mount a cdrom? I have read the handbook, and I have tried different combinations, but they don't work for me. Teilhard- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 16 12:58:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2BC016A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ptb-relay02.plus.net (ptb-relay02.plus.net [212.159.14.213]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612DF43D1D for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:58:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from teilhk@hotpost.co.uk) Received: from [80.229.6.33] (helo=ghostsearchers.com) by ptb-relay02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1B3LdU-000Nbr-ER for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:58:04 +0000 Received: from ARLETTE (authenticated user teilhk@hotpost.co.uk) by ghostsearchers.com (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.4.R) with ESMTP id 43-md50000000004.tmp for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:57:10 +0000 Message-ID: <059001c40b99$3d622300$230110ac@ARLETTE> From: "Teilhard Knight" To: "FreeBSD_Newbies" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:57:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authenticated-Sender: teilhk@hotpost.co.uk X-Spam-Processed: ghostsearchers.com, Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:57:10 +0000 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-Return-Path: teilhk@hotpost.co.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Mount cdrom X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:58:05 -0000 I hope this is the right place to ask. How do you mount a cdrom? I have read the handbook, and I have tried different combinations, but they don't work for me. Teilhard- ________________________________ 30MB & 250MB Web based, POP3 & IMAP4 e-mail. Sign up now: http://www.ghostmailbox.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 16 13:10:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E840B16A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:10:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A21A343D41 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:10:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:11:08 -0600 Message-ID: <40576D4D.2030404@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:10:37 -0600 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Teilhard Knight References: <059001c40b99$3d622300$230110ac@ARLETTE> In-Reply-To: <059001c40b99$3d622300$230110ac@ARLETTE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 21:11:09.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[33FF6AF0:01C40B9B] cc: FreeBSD_Newbies Subject: Re: Mount cdrom X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:10:41 -0000 Teilhard Knight wrote: >I hope this is the right place to ask. How do you mount a cdrom? I have read >the handbook, and I have tried different combinations, but they don't work >for me. > >Teilhard- > > > It probably isn't the right place to ask. Someone will mention the charter of this list if we wait around a while... :-) So, I mention this as entertainment, not an answer to a question.... That said, I mount a cdrom in 5.2 by typing: #d: Now, of course, "d:" won't work for you, unless you have something like this in your shell resource file: alias d: sudo mount_cd9660 /dev/acd0 /cdrom Note that this utilizes the "sudo" program (/usr/ports/security/sudo) and that it's for an IDE CDROM drive; also, there isn't a directory called "cdrom" on the root filesystem of a "stock" FBSD installation. Basically it's just my lazy shortcut (and a tongue-in-chic laugh at DOS!) Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. PS> as root, try "mount_cd9660 /dev/yourdevice /yourmountpoint" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 16 15:08:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 628C116A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C3D43D1D for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:08:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from teilhk@hotpost.co.uk) Received: from [80.229.6.33] (helo=ghostsearchers.com) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1B3NfO-000NPJ-1I for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:08:10 +0000 Received: from ARLETTE (authenticated user teilhk@hotpost.co.uk) by ghostsearchers.com (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.4.R) with ESMTP id 19-md50000000011.tmp for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:07:19 +0000 Message-ID: <066e01c40bab$6b316950$230110ac@ARLETTE> From: "Teilhard Knight" To: "FreeBSD_Newbies" , "Jacob Rieper" References: <059001c40b99$3d622300$230110ac@ARLETTE> <6.0.3.0.0.20040316160634.02510ea8@incoming.verizon.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:07:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authenticated-Sender: teilhk@hotpost.co.uk X-Spam-Processed: ghostsearchers.com, Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:07:19 +0000 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-Return-Path: teilhk@hotpost.co.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mount cdrom X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:08:11 -0000 At 03:57 PM 3/16/2004, you wrote: >I hope this is the right place to ask. How do you mount a cdrom? I have read >the handbook, and I have tried different combinations, but they don't work >for me. > >Teilhard- Create /cdrom then mount -t cd9660 -o ro /dev/cd0a /cdrom where cd0a is the device name of your cdrom. This may vary by system. Thank you, Jacob. If I am not mistaken, once you have the cdrom configured in fstab, you can mount it with fewer strokes. Am I right? Teilhard ________________________________ 30MB & 250MB Web based, POP3 & IMAP4 e-mail. Sign up now: http://www.ghostmailbox.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 16 15:10:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D451216A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:10:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta5.adelphia.net (mta5.adelphia.net [68.168.78.187]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B73243D45 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Barbish3@adelphia.net) Received: from barbish ([67.20.101.119]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with SMTP id <20040316224503.RIVQ2142.mta13.adelphia.net@barbish>; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:45:03 -0500 From: "JJB" To: "Teilhard Knight" , "FreeBSD_Newbies" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:45:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <059001c40b99$3d622300$230110ac@ARLETTE> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: RE: Mount cdrom X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Barbish3@adelphia.net List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:10:42 -0000 To burn an cd or play music you do not mount cd, program takes care of that. You only mount data cd's with mount /cdrom -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Teilhard Knight Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:57 PM To: FreeBSD_Newbies Subject: Mount cdrom I hope this is the right place to ask. How do you mount a cdrom? I have read the handbook, and I have tried different combinations, but they don't work for me. Teilhard- ________________________________ 30MB & 250MB Web based, POP3 & IMAP4 e-mail. Sign up now: http://www.ghostmailbox.com _______________________________________________ freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 16 16:53:46 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686FA16A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:53:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E02D43D2F for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from dsc01-chc-il-209-109-229-3.rasserver.net ([209.109.229.3] helo=nbritton.org) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3PJY-0005cg-00; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:53:45 -0800 Message-ID: <4057A196.4080702@nbritton.org> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:53:42 -0600 From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Teilhard Knight , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org References: <058101c40b99$0411e540$230110ac@ARLETTE> In-Reply-To: <058101c40b99$0411e540$230110ac@ARLETTE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Mount cdrom X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:53:46 -0000 Teilhard Knight wrote: >I hope this is the right place to ask. How do you mount a cdrom? I have read >the handbook, and I have tried different combinations, but they don't work >for me. > >Teilhard- > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > For data cd's just use "mount /cdrom" and it will do everything for you, if system is setup correctly (don't know if this works for 4.x). Use "cdcontrol" to do stuff with music cd's from console (have to setup sound support first, pcm and sound card driver). From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 16 22:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8DAA16A4CE for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ctb-mesg6.saix.net (ctb-mesg6.saix.net [196.25.240.78]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEFE43D2F for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:53:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brendon@memetics.co.za) Received: from Private (rkmp-ip-nas-1-p21.telkom-ipnet.co.za [155.239.68.21]) by ctb-mesg6.saix.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147CA11859 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:53:09 +0200 (SAST) From: "Brendon Reynolds" To: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:52:55 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c40bec$7e66a4e0$191e10ac@Private> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: In need of a little help please.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:53:25 -0000 Hi there, my name is Brendon and I am very new to the whole Linux, Unix and FreeBSD arena. I have managed to install FreeBSD on my machine a few times already and always seem to experience a few recurring problems. I downloaded the FreeBSD handbook but can't seem to open it FreeBSD using KDE 3.1 desktop environment with Ghostviewer. (I downloaded it using my Xp machine.) which is my first problem. Next in regards to the networking side of things- I can (using console assign an IP, Netmask, Broadcast and Media type to my respective NIC -OK , but when I startx and try view the nework or setup LISa daemon ( from the Control Centre)it always tells me that there is no NIC found on my system. What are the options that need to be configured and where are they??? My desired end result is to be able via the GUI browse the local network to other Unix/Linux machines and to see my XP machine. Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated Brendon brendon@memetics.co.za or brendonr@webmail.co.za +27 82 8844303 Gauteng South Africa From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 01:17:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7009416A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from snickers.hotpop.com (snickers.hotpop.com [38.113.3.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3702543D1F for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:17:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from teilhk@phreaker.net) Received: from phreaker.net (kubrick.hotpop.com [38.113.3.103]) by snickers.hotpop.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DB9B3726BE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:44:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ARLETTE (unknown [201.128.115.34]) by smtp-1.hotpop.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 00F381A0163; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:44:26 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <08df01c40cc9$dca558c0$230110ac@ARLETTE> From: "Teilhard Knight" To: "FreeBSD_Newbies" , "Nikolas Britton" References: <058101c40b99$0411e540$230110ac@ARLETTE> <4057A196.4080702@nbritton.org> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:17:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Mount cdrom X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:17:45 -0000 > Teilhard Knight wrote: > > >I hope this is the right place to ask. How do you mount a cdrom? I have read > >the handbook, and I have tried different combinations, but they don't work > >for me. > > > >Teilhard- > > > >_______________________________________________ > >freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > For data cd's just use "mount /cdrom" and it will do everything for you, > if system is setup correctly (don't know if this works for 4.x). > > Use "cdcontrol" to do stuff with music cd's from console (have to setup > sound support first, pcm and sound card driver). Thank you. I know now that I shouldn't try to mount music CDs, which is what I intended to do when I asked. My data CDs mount all right. Teilhard From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 03:32:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D437716A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx7.yandex.ru (mx7.yandex.ru [213.180.200.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F6943D2F for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:32:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sbakalyas@yandex.ru) Received: from ip-16-21.tagiltelecom.ru ([217.114.16.21]:58374 "EHLO techotdel1" smtp-auth: "sbakalyas") by mail.yandex.ru with ESMTP id ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:31:55 +0300 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:32:12 +0500 From: stepan X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.6) Business Organization: =?Windows-1251?B?0uDj6Osg0uXr5eru7A==?= X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <172770469937.20040318163212@yandex.ru> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: RM 1U server for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: stepan List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:32:12 -0000 hello all! Do you can advise Rack Mount 1U server that may be better for FreeBSD usage (zebra router+ firewall+mail server+DNS, about 50 klients). Regards, Stepan From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 05:36:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11E3C16A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.fpwk.com (smtp.fpwk.com [65.218.71.245]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0AC843D2D for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from btarver@fpwk.com) Received: by smtp.fpwk.com; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:37:13 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1079617033-6638-176" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:35:59 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RM 1U server for FreeBSD Thread-Index: AcQM3NYX0kHp88lVS0+JQ2RbY62XYQAEO2el From: "Brad Tarver" To: "stepan" , X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.41 Subject: RE: RM 1U server for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:36:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1079617033-6638-176 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; 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Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1937943D31 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:00:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from dsc06-chc-il-209-109-242-33.rasserver.net ([209.109.242.33] helo=nbritton.org) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B3z0T-0002S0-00 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:00:26 -0800 Message-ID: <4059B987.5020701@nbritton.org> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:00:23 -0600 From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org References: <172770469937.20040318163212@yandex.ru> In-Reply-To: <172770469937.20040318163212@yandex.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: RM 1U server for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:00:27 -0000 stepan wrote: >hello all! > >Do you can advise Rack Mount 1U server that may be better for FreeBSD >usage (zebra router+ firewall+mail server+DNS, about 50 klients). > >Regards, Stepan > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > All three vendors listed below openly support the open source way of life: IBM Intel based xSeries: http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/eserver/xseries/index.html Penguin Computing Intel based Relion Series (See also the Altus Series for AMD based): http://www.penguincomputing.com/store/relion.php Iron Systems iServer line: http://www.ironsystems.com/products/iservers/index.htm From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 07:59:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A4416A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:59:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from floyd.gnulife.org (floyd.gnulife.org [199.86.41.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C7A43D2D for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:59:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) Received: from floyd.gnulife.org (localhost.gnulife.org [127.0.0.1]) by floyd.gnulife.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2IGwN96025086 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:58:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost)i2IGwNw9025083 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:58:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) X-Authentication-Warning: floyd.gnulife.org: jamie owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:58:23 -0600 (CST) From: Jamie To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040318104500.H25030@floyd.gnulife.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 Subject: openssl upgrade confusion X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:59:53 -0000 I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am having a really rough time. I downloaded the 9.7d tarball and untarred it in /usr/src. I did a ./config, make, and make install. It seems to have placed the new openssl libraries in a different location than where the original ones were installed: # locate libcrypto.a /usr/lib/libcrypto.a /usr/local/ssl/lib/libcrypto.a # What is the best way to over-write the base install? I've considered adding /usr/local/ssl/lib to the /var/run/ld-elf.so.hints file but I can't find a way to modify the order so that /usr/local/ssl/lib/ is checked before /usr/lib. Is that the route I should be taking, or is there a better way? I have considered using the openssl port to do the upgrade, but I would rather use a tarball because I have built apache/mod_ssl/openssl together. - Jamie Greetings from Minneapolis, MN, United States From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 11:08:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B9816A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from thunder.nws.noaa.gov (fs1-nhdw.nws.noaa.gov [140.90.90.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D4F43D2F for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:08:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ash.gokhale@noaa.gov) Received: from [192.168.0.66] (hel [140.90.90.7])ESMTP id TAA05168; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:08:32 GMT In-Reply-To: <20040318104500.H25030@floyd.gnulife.org> References: <20040318104500.H25030@floyd.gnulife.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ash Gokhale Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:08:30 -0500 To: Jamie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openssl upgrade confusion X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:08:36 -0000 Backup, and overwrite the base library! Build it with the same target options that the os uses. If you are after a new version of the library that is symbol compatible; it's probably not worth have the old lib to fall back to . OpenSSL bugs are the kind of thing that get your system OwnZ3d; you want the later version unless your are testing exploits. On the other hand this approach doesn't play nice with the freebsd configuration management structure; where all the customizations live in /usr/local and don't get overwritten with make world. If you are trying to get _all_ the angels on one pinhead you can try going after ld.so's runtime configuration, specifically: man ld.so (whack) /LD_LIB (whack) = LD_LIBRARY_PATH A colon separated list of directories, overriding the default search path for shared libraries. This is ignored for set-user-ID and set-group-ID programs. and LD_PRELOAD A list of shared libraries, separated by colons and/or white space, to be linked in before any other shared libraries. If the directory is not specified then the directories specified by LD_LIBRARY_PATH will be searched first followed by the set of built-in stan- dard directories. This is ignored for set-user-ID and set-group-ID programs. You can use this to conceal the system's libcrypto from your app. Parting shot: DO check the MD5sum for the SSL package. It hasn't been trojaned; yet. On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote: > > > I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am > having a > really rough time. I downloaded the 9.7d tarball and untarred it in > /usr/src. I did a ./config, make, and make install. It seems to have > placed the new openssl libraries in a different location than where the > original ones were installed: > # locate libcrypto.a > /usr/lib/libcrypto.a > /usr/local/ssl/lib/libcrypto.a > What is the best way to over-write the base install? I've considered > adding /usr/local/ssl/lib to the /var/run/ld-elf.so.hints file but I > can't > find a way to modify the order so that /usr/local/ssl/lib/ is checked > before /usr/lib. > > - Jamie > Ash.Gokhale@noaa.gov System Administration Lead, NOAA/MDL From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 13:52:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1177616A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from enterprise.sd73.bc.ca (romulus-net.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AA543D31 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:52:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca) Received: from mailtest.sd73.bc.ca (mailtest.sd73.bc.ca [10.10.10.14]) i2ILgf0c031785; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:42:41 -0800 Received: from 192.168.0.185 (SquirrelMail authenticated user fcash) by mailtest.sd73.bc.ca with HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:52:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <59123.192.168.0.185.1079646751.squirrel@mailtest.sd73.bc.ca> In-Reply-To: References: <20040318104500.H25030@floyd.gnulife.org> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:52:31 -0800 (PST) From: "Freddie Cash" To: "Ash Gokhale" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openssl upgrade confusion X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:52:34 -0000 And once again we're shown why technical questions are NOT to be asked on the newbies list. This list is NOT for technical support. This list is to discuss the newbie experience. What works for you, what wonderful things you've discovered, your experiences with FreeBSD at home or work. Things like that. Consider it a coffee shop where everyone comes after work to just shoot the breeze about life. Technical questions should be asked on the FreeBSD-Questions mailing list, where all the gurus and wizards lurk. They can provide answers that are correct on the first shot, and consistent from poster to poster. As for the OpenSSL issue, either wait for OpenSSL to be upgraded in the base, then do a buildworld. Or, install the port using OPENSSL_OVERWRITE_BASE (or whatever the option is called, it's listed in the Makefile). That's it, that's all. Nothing in FreeBSD is ever as complicated as the previous two posts. :) > On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote: >> I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am >> having a >> really rough time. I downloaded the 9.7d tarball and untarred it in >> /usr/src. I did a ./config, make, and make install. It seems to have >> placed the new openssl libraries in a different location than where >> the >> original ones were installed: >> # locate libcrypto.a >> /usr/lib/libcrypto.a >> /usr/local/ssl/lib/libcrypto.a >> What is the best way to over-write the base install? I've >> considered >> adding /usr/local/ssl/lib to the /var/run/ld-elf.so.hints file but I >> can't >> find a way to modify the order so that /usr/local/ssl/lib/ is >> checked >> before /usr/lib. >> >> - Jamie >> > Ash.Gokhale@noaa.gov > System Administration Lead, > NOAA/MDL > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Freddie Cash fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 14:18:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B98816A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from server49.totalchoicehosting.com (server49.totalchoicehosting.com [209.152.173.160]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EAB943D45 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Eric@savaka.com) Received: from cpanel by server49.totalchoicehosting.com with local (Exim 4.24) id 1B45py-0003af-Fv for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:18:02 -0500 Received: from 68.106.159.48 ([68.106.159.48]) by savaka.com (IMP) with HTTP for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:18:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:18:02 -0500 From: Eric To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org References: <20040318104500.H25030@floyd.gnulife.org> <59123.192.168.0.185.1079646751.squirrel@mailtest.sd73.bc.ca> In-Reply-To: <59123.192.168.0.185.1079646751.squirrel@mailtest.sd73.bc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Originating-IP: 68.106.159.48 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server49.totalchoicehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - savaka.com Subject: Re: openssl upgrade confusion X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:18:17 -0000 Frankly I can't decide which is more annoying - receiving user questions posted on the "wrong" discussion list, or receiving complaints that the user questions were posted on the "wrong" discussion list. I guess it all makes for an interesting inbox experience. Quoting Freddie Cash : > And once again we're shown why technical questions are NOT to be asked > on the newbies list. This list is NOT for technical support. This > list is to discuss the newbie experience. What works for you, what > wonderful things you've discovered, your experiences with FreeBSD at > home or work. Things like that. Consider it a coffee shop where > everyone comes after work to just shoot the breeze about life. > > Technical questions should be asked on the FreeBSD-Questions mailing > list, where all the gurus and wizards lurk. They can provide answers > that are correct on the first shot, and consistent from poster to > poster. > > As for the OpenSSL issue, either wait for OpenSSL to be upgraded in > the base, then do a buildworld. Or, install the port using > OPENSSL_OVERWRITE_BASE (or whatever the option is called, it's listed > in the Makefile). That's it, that's all. Nothing in FreeBSD is ever > as complicated as the previous two posts. :) > > > On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote: > >> I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am > >> having a > >> really rough time. I downloaded the 9.7d tarball and untarred it in > >> /usr/src. I did a ./config, make, and make install. It seems to have > >> placed the new openssl libraries in a different location than where > >> the > >> original ones were installed: > >> # locate libcrypto.a > >> /usr/lib/libcrypto.a > >> /usr/local/ssl/lib/libcrypto.a > >> What is the best way to over-write the base install? I've > >> considered > >> adding /usr/local/ssl/lib to the /var/run/ld-elf.so.hints file but I > >> can't > >> find a way to modify the order so that /usr/local/ssl/lib/ is > >> checked > >> before /usr/lib. > >> > >> - Jamie > >> > > Ash.Gokhale@noaa.gov > > System Administration Lead, > > NOAA/MDL > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > -- > Freddie Cash > fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 18:19:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C9916A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:19:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.padawan.shinawatra.ac.th (anti.shinawatra.ac.th [203.170.175.254]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7640443D2F for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:19:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anurak4@fastmail.fm) Received: (from mgrit [10.10.10.30])M2004031909235217110 ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:23:52 +0700 Message-ID: <004c01c40d59$38e8d550$1e0a0a0a@nt.shinawatra.ac.th> From: "Anurak C." To: "Eric" , References: <20040318104500.H25030@floyd.gnulife.org><59123.192.168.0.185.1079646751.squirrel@mailtest.sd73.bc.ca> <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:23:52 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-874" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:19:22 -0000 Hi all, This is my first time to post to this mailing list. I can call myself a newbie as well. I would like to share my point of view that there are many people out there who doesn't know where to ask easy questions. Most new arrival to FreeBSD or Unix world think that they are coming to another new world full of gurus and hackers. Unix seems to be the world for experts. Many new comers are always thinking that their questions might be too easy or very stupid for those experts. That is why we see many new comers keep posting to the newbies group. As far as I remember, I used to see a newbies group for Linux community which answer many technical questions to new comers. I may be wrong but I used to ask questions on how to install and config slackware linux many years ago. There were many people replied to me and one of them gave me his email so that he can help me directly. I finally installed successfully and posted all our conversation to the linux newbies mailing list. I realize that FreeBSD-newbies is not for technical questions but it is just the general agreement or a concept. All of us know this agreement but still answer again and again. I don't know why. I have seen many people here offer help to new comers without complaining them. Maybe there is something compromising in our community, Daemon? I am not convincing everyone to violate the agreement but please be patient to new comers. We may answer them and suggest them to ask in FreeBSD-questions for more detail. Regards, Anurak C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:18 AM Subject: Re: openssl upgrade confusion > Frankly I can't decide which is more annoying - receiving user questions posted > on the "wrong" discussion list, or receiving complaints that the user questions > were posted on the "wrong" discussion list. > > I guess it all makes for an interesting inbox experience. > > > Quoting Freddie Cash : > > > And once again we're shown why technical questions are NOT to be asked > > on the newbies list. This list is NOT for technical support. This > > list is to discuss the newbie experience. What works for you, what > > wonderful things you've discovered, your experiences with FreeBSD at > > home or work. Things like that. Consider it a coffee shop where > > everyone comes after work to just shoot the breeze about life. > > > > Technical questions should be asked on the FreeBSD-Questions mailing > > list, where all the gurus and wizards lurk. They can provide answers > > that are correct on the first shot, and consistent from poster to > > poster. > > > > As for the OpenSSL issue, either wait for OpenSSL to be upgraded in > > the base, then do a buildworld. Or, install the port using > > OPENSSL_OVERWRITE_BASE (or whatever the option is called, it's listed > > in the Makefile). That's it, that's all. Nothing in FreeBSD is ever > > as complicated as the previous two posts. :) > > > > > On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote: > > >> I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am > > >> having a > > >> really rough time. I downloaded the 9.7d tarball and untarred it in > > >> /usr/src. I did a ./config, make, and make install. It seems to have > > >> placed the new openssl libraries in a different location than where > > >> the > > >> original ones were installed: > > >> # locate libcrypto.a > > >> /usr/lib/libcrypto.a > > >> /usr/local/ssl/lib/libcrypto.a > > >> What is the best way to over-write the base install? I've > > >> considered > > >> adding /usr/local/ssl/lib to the /var/run/ld-elf.so.hints file but I > > >> can't > > >> find a way to modify the order so that /usr/local/ssl/lib/ is > > >> checked > > >> before /usr/lib. > > >> > > >> - Jamie > > >> > > > Ash.Gokhale@noaa.gov > > > System Administration Lead, > > > NOAA/MDL > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > > "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > -- > > Freddie Cash > > fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 19:03:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F87116A4DE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ozlabs.org (ozlabs.org [203.10.76.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0016E43D31 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:03:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from blackwater.lemis.com (blackwater.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5952BD7F for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:03:46 +1100 (EST) Received: by blackwater.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 174AE51205; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:33:43 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:33:43 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: "Anurak C." Message-ID: <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <004c01c40d59$38e8d550$1e0a0a0a@nt.shinawatra.ac.th> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <004c01c40d59$38e8d550$1e0a0a0a@nt.shinawatra.ac.th> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org cc: Eric Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:03:50 -0000 --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Friday, 19 March 2004 at 9:23:52 +0700, Anurak C. wrote: > On Friday, March 19, 2004 5:18 AM, Eric wrote: >> Quoting Freddie Cash : >> >>>> On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote: >>>>> I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am >>>>> having a really rough time. >>>>> ... >>> >>> And once again we're shown why technical questions are NOT to be >>> asked on the newbies list. This list is NOT for technical >>> support. This list is to discuss the newbie experience. What >>> works for you, what wonderful things you've discovered, your >>> experiences with FreeBSD at home or work. Things like that. >>> Consider it a coffee shop where everyone comes after work to just >>> shoot the breeze about life. >>> >>> Technical questions should be asked on the FreeBSD-Questions >>> mailing list, where all the gurus and wizards lurk. They can >>> provide answers that are correct on the first shot, and consistent >>> from poster to poster. >> >> Frankly I can't decide which is more annoying - receiving user >> questions posted on the "wrong" discussion list, or receiving >> complaints that the user questions were posted on the "wrong" >> discussion list. > > This is my first time to post to this mailing list. I can call > myself a newbie as well. I would like to share my point of view > that there are many people out there who doesn't know where to ask > easy questions. Most new arrival to FreeBSD or Unix world think > that they are coming to another new world full of gurus and hackers. > Unix seems to be the world for experts. This concern was the original reason for this mailing list. > I realize that FreeBSD-newbies is not for technical questions but it > is just the general agreement or a concept. It's the charter: Welcome to FreeBSD! This list is a gathering place for people new to FreeBSD. Please feel free to share your experiences with others on this list. Support questions should be sent to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. Technical questions should be sent to freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org. (NOT to the newbies list please) Full info and FAK http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ Please read the info and FAK. They contain important information regarding the purpose and use of this mailing list. To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the freebsd-newbies Archives The reasoning for this is twofold: 1. People on -newbies are, by definition, newbies. In general, they understand the system less well than people who have been around for a while. As a result, the answers you get from them may not be as accurate as the answers you would get on -questions. 2. Most members of mailing lists never post. They just lurk and learn by the questions and answers sent by other people. This is also the reason why we ask people to copy the list on answers. > All of us know this agreement but > still answer again and again. I don't know why. I have seen many peop= le > here offer help to new comers without complaining them. Maybe there is > something compromising in our community, Daemon? > > I am not convincing everyone to violate the agreement but please be patie= nt > to new comers. We may answer them and suggest them to ask in > FreeBSD-questions for more detail. This usually doesn't happen. It would be a lot better if people would respect the charter. It's there for a reason. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. =20 For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAWmMPIubykFB6QiMRAskLAJ4ldS5e7Y/yqYnq28am+zg05T6YYQCcC2GP bT3w63YgWamU/c6H38BFTew= =VtjJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn-- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 19:44:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA5516A4CE; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:44:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from floyd.gnulife.org (floyd.gnulife.org [199.86.41.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C894D43D41; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) Received: from floyd.gnulife.org (localhost.gnulife.org [127.0.0.1]) by floyd.gnulife.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2J4hPES054220; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:43:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost)i2J4hO2O054217; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:43:25 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) X-Authentication-Warning: floyd.gnulife.org: jamie owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:43:24 -0600 (CST) From: Jamie To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" In-Reply-To: <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <004c01c40d59$38e8d550$1e0a0a0a@nt.shinawatra.ac.th> <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org cc: Eric Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:44:56 -0000 On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 19 March 2004 at 9:23:52 +0700, Anurak C. wrote: > > On Friday, March 19, 2004 5:18 AM, Eric wrote: > >> Quoting Freddie Cash : > >> > >>>> On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote: > >>>>> I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am > >>>>> having a really rough time. > >>>>> ... > >>> > >>> And once again we're shown why technical questions are NOT to be > >>> asked on the newbies list. This list is NOT for technical > >>> support. This list is to discuss the newbie experience. What > >>> works for you, what wonderful things you've discovered, your > >>> experiences with FreeBSD at home or work. Things like that. > >>> Consider it a coffee shop where everyone comes after work to just > >>> shoot the breeze about life. > >>> > >>> Technical questions should be asked on the FreeBSD-Questions > >>> mailing list, where all the gurus and wizards lurk. They can > >>> provide answers that are correct on the first shot, and consistent > >>> from poster to poster. > >> > >> Frankly I can't decide which is more annoying - receiving user > >> questions posted on the "wrong" discussion list, or receiving > >> complaints that the user questions were posted on the "wrong" > >> discussion list. > > > > This is my first time to post to this mailing list. I can call > > myself a newbie as well. I would like to share my point of view > > that there are many people out there who doesn't know where to ask > > easy questions. Most new arrival to FreeBSD or Unix world think > > that they are coming to another new world full of gurus and hackers. > > Unix seems to be the world for experts. > > This concern was the original reason for this mailing list. > Sorry, I should have read the charter. I didn't want to bother the gurus and wizards with what I thought might be a question which would come from someone inexperienced, and title "newbies" *sounded* like a good place to ask it. I was just judging it by the name of the group, and not by the charter, so thats how I made my mistake. To me, newbies sounds like a haven for those whose asbestos underwear are away at the laundromat. Had I read the charter, I wouldn't have posted in newbies. I see plenty of folks in freebsd-questions getting flamed for not reading the manual, when I think in fact many of them are so inexperienced that they aren't aware of just where the manual they need is yet, or whether the additional manual they need even exists. A lot of questions are probably even ignored because people read the questions and think to themselves "I won't answer this - the guy hasn't read the manual, or he doesn't have a clue what is going on". Sometimes the person with the question may have read the manual but misunderstood it, or could not locate the relevant docs. Maybe it is a dumb idea, but perhaps there should be a freebsd-newbies list for *newcomers* with technical questions, and the current freebsd-newbies list for general experiences could be renamed to freebsd-newcomers-nontechnical list (or some variant). - Jamie > > I realize that FreeBSD-newbies is not for technical questions but it > > is just the general agreement or a concept. > > It's the charter: > > Welcome to FreeBSD! > > This list is a gathering place for people new to FreeBSD. Please > feel free to share your experiences with others on this list. > > Support questions should be sent to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. > Technical questions should be sent to freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org. > (NOT to the newbies list please) > > Full info and FAK http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ > > Please read the info and FAK. They contain important information > regarding the purpose and use of this mailing list. > > To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the > freebsd-newbies Archives > > The reasoning for this is twofold: > > 1. People on -newbies are, by definition, newbies. In general, they > understand the system less well than people who have been around > for a while. As a result, the answers you get from them may not > be as accurate as the answers you would get on -questions. > > 2. Most members of mailing lists never post. They just lurk and > learn by the questions and answers sent by other people. This is > also the reason why we ask people to copy the list on answers. > > > All of us know this agreement but > > still answer again and again. I don't know why. I have seen many people > > here offer help to new comers without complaining them. Maybe there is > > something compromising in our community, Daemon? > > > > I am not convincing everyone to violate the agreement but please be patient > > to new comers. We may answer them and suggest them to ask in > > FreeBSD-questions for more detail. > > This usually doesn't happen. It would be a lot better if people would > respect the charter. It's there for a reason. > > Greg > -- > When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the > original text. > For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html > Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. > Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > Greetings from Minneapolis, MN, United States "A friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself." From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 20:08:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2981D16A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:08:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from enterprise.sd73.bc.ca (romulus-net.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD25E43D2F for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:08:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca) Received: from mailtest.sd73.bc.ca (mailtest.sd73.bc.ca [10.10.10.14]) i2J3wm0c004575 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:58:48 -0800 Received: from 24.71.128.221 (SquirrelMail authenticated user fcash) by mailtest.sd73.bc.ca with HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:08:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1029.24.71.128.221.1079669319.squirrel@mailtest.sd73.bc.ca> In-Reply-To: <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com><004c01c40d59$38e8d550$1e0a0a0a@nt.shinawatra.ac.th><20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:08:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Freddie Cash" To: newbies@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:08:39 -0000 > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > I see plenty of folks in freebsd-questions getting flamed for not > reading > the manual, when I think in fact many of them are so inexperienced > that they aren't aware of just where the manual they need is yet, or > whether the additional manual they need even exists. A lot of > questions > are probably even ignored because people read the questions and think > to > themselves "I won't answer this - the guy hasn't read the manual, or > he > doesn't have a clue what is going on". Sometimes the person with the > question may have read the manual but misunderstood it, or could not > locate the relevant docs. :) Read the nice little message that appears on screen the very first (and every subsequent) time you login. :) Gives you several places to go for documentation. Here's the first little bit: Welcome to FreeBSD! Before seeking technical support, please use the following resources: o Security advisories and updated errata information for all releases are at http://www.FreeBSD.org/releases/ - always consult the ERRATA section for your release first as it's updated frequently. o The Handbook and FAQ documents are at http://www.FreeBSD.org/ and, along with the mailing lists, can be searched by going to http://www.FreeBSD.org/search/. If the doc distribution has been installed, they're also available formatted in /usr/share/doc. :D And the very last line even tells you how to find information on using the man page system for finding information on commands. There's not much more that can be done, other than forcing a user to go through a tutorial on the first login, which very few people would appreciate. :) -- Freddie Cash fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 20:44:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E82A316A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:44:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpo01.icare.priv (unknown [203.78.64.148]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A1643D1D for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:44:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from satimis@icare.com.hk) Received: from smtpi02.icare.priv ([10.11.12.45]) by smtpo01.icare.priv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:44:08 +0800 Received: from 203.88.164.118 ([203.88.164.118]) by smtpi02.icare.priv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:44:08 +0800 From: Stephen Liu To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:37:33 +0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403191237.34042.satimis@icare.com.hk> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2004 04:44:08.0136 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0A59C80:01C40D6C] Subject: The clock is running too fast X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:44:11 -0000 Hi folks, AMD CUP FreeBSD 5.2 The clock on KDE desktop is running on double speed compelling me to adjust it periodically. Kindly advise how to fix this problem. TIA B.R. Stephen Liu From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 21:40:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0A016A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from straycat.dhs.org (h0050da134090.ne.client2.attbi.com [24.91.148.154]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 922B943D3F for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:40:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tmclaugh@sdf.lonestar.org) Received: (qmail 19919 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2004 05:42:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.128?) (192.168.1.128) by 192.168.1.129 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2004 05:42:14 -0000 From: Tom McLaughlin To: Jamie In-Reply-To: <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <004c01c40d59$38e8d550$1e0a0a0a@nt.shinawatra.ac.th> <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1079675230.86745.91.camel@compass> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:47:11 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: grog@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org cc: Eric@savaka.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:40:39 -0000 Apologies, forgot to CC the mailing list the first time. On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 23:43, Jamie wrote: > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > > On Friday, 19 March 2004 at 9:23:52 +0700, Anurak C. wrote: > > > On Friday, March 19, 2004 5:18 AM, Eric wrote: > > >> Quoting Freddie Cash : > > > > Sorry, I should have read the charter. I didn't want to bother the > gurus and wizards with what I thought might be a question which would come > from someone inexperienced, and title "newbies" *sounded* like a good > place to ask it. I was just judging it by the name of the group, and not > by the charter, so thats how I made my mistake. To me, newbies sounds like > a haven for those whose asbestos underwear are away at the laundromat. Had > I read the charter, I wouldn't have posted in newbies. > > I see plenty of folks in freebsd-questions getting flamed for not reading > the manual, when I think in fact many of them are so inexperienced > that they aren't aware of just where the manual they need is yet, or > whether the additional manual they need even exists. A lot of questions > are probably even ignored because people read the questions and think to > themselves "I won't answer this - the guy hasn't read the manual, or he > doesn't have a clue what is going on". Sometimes the person with the > question may have read the manual but misunderstood it, or could not > locate the relevant docs. > > Maybe it is a dumb idea, but perhaps there should be a freebsd-newbies > list for *newcomers* with technical questions, and the current > freebsd-newbies list for general experiences could be renamed to > freebsd-newcomers-nontechnical list (or some variant). > > - Jamie > I'll throw my hat in the ring here since I am a FreeBSD newbie (4 months today exactly!) but have at least 5 years of *nix experience which has helped to ease the transition. I started experimenting with linux having a Windows only background and a copy of RedHat (and then a copy of Mandrake because it had an auto-partition option in the install) 5.2 from Cheap Bytes plus Running Linux 2nd Edition. I also subscribed to the RH and MDK newbie and expert mailing lists. I ended up unsubscribing from the expert lists because I understood almost nothing they were talking about on there. The questions on newbies were more on my level and were the types of things I was having questions about. I learned A LOT on those lists just by lurking for some time on them. The problem I see with all technical and support questions be directed to freebsd-questions and freebsd-hackers is that at least freebsd-questions (not subscribed to freebsd-hackers) is a high volume list. Greg, as you pointed out earlier, most people don't post, they lurk. I think people lurk because they are looking to pickup information and read what is relevant to their situation. I think for a newbie it is a bit of work to sift through the noise on -questions and find what is relevant to their situation and needs. I don't think there should be a list that is "Don't bother reading... Just come and ask". (Gawd I can't stand those lists.) But a list where newbies can post limited technical questions may be of some use. What is the average newbie's technical background today? Are more people coming to FreeBSD without a *nix background than in years past? A place for limited technical discussion made be an excellent place for today's newbie to lurk and pickup information in addition to other sources. One of the problems with newbie lists as pointed out several times before is if you ask a question in a room full of clueless people you will get a lot of clueless answers. When I started on the Mandrake newbies list I remember there were a few developers on it who took time to answer newbie questions and to make sure that people got the right answers. OpnBSD as well has an unofficial newbie technical list run by someone who is rather knowledgeable. I bet there are people involved with FreeBSD who would do the same. Lastly (Finally I'm done!), the documentation for FreeBSD is great but sometimes I have questions on what I just read. Google is a great tool but sometimes it yields conflicting "answers" because things change or I just ended up with following that bum post which was wrong. Then there are those days I get excited when I read the answer to a question I hadn't even asked yet. I'm done now and sleep is near. Comments, suggestions, insults about my cat welcome. Tom > Greetings from Minneapolis, MN, United States > > "A friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself." > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 23:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E48816A4CF for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from amber.aeternal.net (amber.in.markiza.sk [62.168.76.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371EF43D1D for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from corwin@aeternal.net) Received: from localhost.invalid (amber.aeternal.net [192.168.0.11]) by amber.aeternal.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B6C59CA4; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:11:32 +0100 (CET) From: Martin Hudec To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:11:18 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> In-Reply-To: <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> X-Copyright: (C) 2004 Martin Hudec X-Operating-System: FreeBSD amber.aeternal.net 4.9-RELEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200403190811.28651.corwin@aeternal.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:10:58 -0000 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Good morning, Jamie, that is absolutely wrong to say that you didn't want to bother the=20 gurus and wizs. Everyone of those people, which you prefer to call gurus an= d=20 wizs, one time in a galaxy far far away were newbies like you, they stumble= d=20 upon the same problems like you do nowadays as newbie. I would not prefer t= o=20 use such terms to highlight someone's knowledge. My experience from general= =20 linux mailing lists is that members usually do sort themselves in some kind= =20 of classes (user, power user, guru - use any terms you like). And this caus= e=20 that someone who is calling himself a newbie might get ignored by someone w= ho=20 is calling himself as guru, just for this simple reason that he is guru and= =20 that is too demeaning for him to answer this (from his point of view) simpl= e=20 and easy question. The -question mailing list is just for asking tech suppo= rt=20 questions no matter how simple or how complicated they seem to be. On=20 =2D -questions there are many people willing to help. And it looks like tha= t=20 =46reeBSD users are more grown up than linux users (my subjective opinion -= =20 many of the linux so called gurus are still living in the opinion that they= =20 are the best, they know everything because they don't use that redmond=20 operating system, so they see themselves as some kind of ueber-men..), so=20 they will answer, or at least try to shown the direction how to solve this = or=20 that. If you ask for tech support here on -newbies list of course you might= =20 get the right answer, but risk of getting less accurate answer here is more= =20 higher than in -questions list. You are saying that plenty of folks on -questions are getting flamed.. well= I=20 have not seen this for quite time now (maybe I am not paying lot of attenti= on=20 to list), but it is always nice to see that person asking for help did at=20 least some research on his own (reading log files, trying google.. "in goog= le=20 non est, ergo non est"). Sometimes I see questions like "my proftpd server= =20 stopped to work, please help" and those are the questions when I feel like = I=20 need a crystall ball to find out what happened to the proftpd. Please don't= =20 get me wrong. I always try to help, no matter how stupid or easy question=20 seems to be. I was new to world of FreeBSD once too (and I am still - maybe= I=20 am good in ipfw traffic shaping, maybe I lack any experience at all in bind= 9=20 matters etc.), and I needed (and sometimes I need) the same kind of help yo= u=20 asking for now. What I hate is the guru-like approach like "rtfm! man=20 make.conf". That is too childish. Remember that the most stupid questions a= re=20 those which we are never about to ask. Enjoy and explore that nice world of= =20 =46reeBSD and its possibilities. cheers, Martin On Fri March 19 2004 05:43, Jamie wrote: > Sorry, I should have read the charter. I didn't want to bother the > gurus and wizards with what I thought might be a question which would come > from someone inexperienced, and title "newbies" *sounded* like a good > place to ask it. I was just judging it by the name of the group, and not > by the charter, so thats how I made my mistake. To me, newbies sounds like > a haven for those whose asbestos underwear are away at the laundromat. Had > I read the charter, I wouldn't have posted in newbies. > > I see plenty of folks in freebsd-questions getting flamed for not reading > the manual, when I think in fact many of them are so inexperienced > that they aren't aware of just where the manual they need is yet, or > whether the additional manual they need even exists. A lot of questions > are probably even ignored because people read the questions and think to > themselves "I won't answer this - the guy hasn't read the manual, or he > doesn't have a clue what is going on". Sometimes the person with the > question may have read the manual but misunderstood it, or could not > locate the relevant docs. > =2D --=20 : :. kind regards :.. Martin Hudec :.: :.: =3Dw=3D http://www.aeternal.net :.: =3Dm=3D +421.907.303393 :.: =3D@=3D corwin@aeternal.net :.: :.: "When you want something, all the universe=20 :.: conspires in helping you to achieve it." :.: - The Alchemist (Paulo Coelho) =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAWp0gZYEZIv+rgggRAp6pAJ9ZhEyWSgFIVXkSztIF5+gW3AS2ywCggP2b 5+vF5SlCV0EUVOzbgu03U5k=3D =3D0gKn =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 19 06:16:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0655F16A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from web42002.mail.yahoo.com (web42002.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE21343D3F for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:16:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from d3javu1978@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040319141630.40574.qmail@web42002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.100.104.17] by web42002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:16:30 PST Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:16:30 -0800 (PST) From: Me To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Raid 1 , Vinum X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:16:31 -0000 I'm using vinum Raid-1. I have figured out how to recover from a failed disk. Does any one know what to do if the disk that has the vinum configuration/OS fails? lets say I have a disk with a vinum partition on it and I want to create a mirror out of it on an entire new system. how do i accomplish this. I've search quite a bit but most senarios only show how to recover a failed drive that doesnt contain the OS. Br, Jose Lima __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 19 08:00:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2383E16A4D6; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from thunder.nws.noaa.gov (fs1-nhdw.nws.noaa.gov [140.90.90.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E4143D64; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:00:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ash.gokhale@noaa.gov) Received: from [192.168.0.66] (hel [140.90.90.7])ESMTP id QAA14437; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:00:22 GMT In-Reply-To: <1079675230.86745.91.camel@compass> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <004c01c40d59$38e8d550$1e0a0a0a@nt.shinawatra.ac.th> <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> <1079675230.86745.91.camel@compass> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <853AE3A7-79BE-11D8-9740-00039383C51E@noaa.gov> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ash Gokhale Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:00:19 -0500 To: Tom McLaughlin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) cc: grog@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org cc: Eric@savaka.com Subject: FreeBSD-newbies is a community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:00:54 -0000 Asbestos underwear aside, FreeBSD is a community that is expanding at all the tiers, from n00b ,operator,admin, developer and finally to "I write interrupt level microcode for God's machine herself, how dare you ask that question on this list, this is clearly a ports problem, uggh!". The best part of the list it is that it belongs to the people who use it moderately and politely. Appropriating the newbie list for a wider range of questions gives people a chance to play with ideas they would not ordinarily be exposed to. People who come to FreeBSD from another unix should appreciate this variety. Real brand new unix/BSD mephits will appreciate good humor and courtesy. I would hate to bug -hackers, or -questions with an OpenSSL upgrade question. And if you have ever read lists from that other "Highly Secure" free BSD that starts with an "O" which originates the said library; You might envision a truly frightened new user. This a great question for this list, we are all newbies. ( excluding people who are busy writing the Kernel ) That said, our successful community will not scold people who don't know where to get the information they seek. We will instead try to help, and buy suggesting different approaches, give everyone learns something different. btw: I would not build _my_ crypto framework from ports. *wink from walden two, Ash.Gokhale@noaa.gov System Administration Lead, NOAA/MDL From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 19 13:47:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFA116A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ozlabs.org (ozlabs.org [203.10.76.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9010F43D3F for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:47:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from blackwater.lemis.com (blackwater.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857C52BD7F for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:47:17 +1100 (EST) Received: by blackwater.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A9D625130D; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:17:15 +1030 (CST) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:17:15 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Me Message-ID: <20040319214715.GJ21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20040319141630.40574.qmail@web42002.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9/GiYV45wF7IL3Iq" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040319141630.40574.qmail@web42002.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Raid 1 , Vinum X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:47:20 -0000 --9/GiYV45wF7IL3Iq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Friday, 19 March 2004 at 6:16:30 -0800, Me wrote: > I'm using vinum Raid-1. > I have figured out how to recover from a failed disk. > Does any one know what to do if the disk that has the > vinum configuration/OS fails? > lets say I have a disk with a vinum partition on it > and I want to create a mirror out of it on an entire > new system. how do i accomplish this. I've search > quite a bit but most senarios only show how to recover > a failed drive that doesnt contain the OS. Sorry, I'm not allowed to answer this question on this forum. Please ask on FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.org, which is the correct place for technical questions. Greg -- Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. --9/GiYV45wF7IL3Iq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAW2pjIubykFB6QiMRAvz0AJ4wcbVww5a12ycMm/HA4gIMymCRKACgmQDq xc4SXRHWdKp3kn+o+MjAODI= =pCam -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9/GiYV45wF7IL3Iq-- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 19 13:56:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA9C516A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:56:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ozlabs.org (ozlabs.org [203.10.76.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90D1F43D39 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from blackwater.lemis.com (blackwater.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C366B2BD7F for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:56:33 +1100 (EST) Received: by blackwater.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id B2B6F51211; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:26:28 +1030 (CST) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:26:28 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Ash Gokhale Message-ID: <20040319215628.GL21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <004c01c40d59$38e8d550$1e0a0a0a@nt.shinawatra.ac.th> <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040318222230.F54150@floyd.gnulife.org> <1079675230.86745.91.camel@compass> <853AE3A7-79BE-11D8-9740-00039383C51E@noaa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kK1uqZGE6pgsGNyR" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <853AE3A7-79BE-11D8-9740-00039383C51E@noaa.gov> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: Tom McLaughlin cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org cc: Eric@savaka.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies is a community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:56:36 -0000 --kK1uqZGE6pgsGNyR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Friday, 19 March 2004 at 11:00:19 -0500, Ash Gokhale wrote: > Asbestos underwear aside, FreeBSD is a community that is expanding > at all the tiers, from n00b ,operator,admin, developer and finally to "I > write interrupt level microcode for God's machine herself, how dare you > ask that question on this list, this is clearly a ports problem, > uggh!". The best part of the list it is that it belongs to the people > who use it moderately and politely. > > Appropriating the newbie list for a wider range of questions gives > people a chance to play with ideas they would not ordinarily be exposed > to. People who come to FreeBSD from another unix should appreciate this > variety. Real brand new unix/BSD mephits will appreciate good humor and > courtesy. Well, this may be your opinion, and you're welcome to it, but it goes against the charter. > I would hate to bug -hackers, or -questions with an OpenSSL > upgrade question. But that's exactly what -questions is for. -newbies is not. > That said, our successful community will not scold people who > don't know where to get the information they seek. We will instead > try to help, and buy suggesting different approaches, give everyone > learns something different. The best way to help is to stick to the charter. A number of people have explained why it's there. Greg -- Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. --kK1uqZGE6pgsGNyR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAW2yMIubykFB6QiMRAvayAJ49MbvRFXQIhrXG4kPIKe5BJJ/XwQCdGSR/ 1F+SxPwg0qLpXhzUTImXwvA= =zChm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kK1uqZGE6pgsGNyR-- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 19 15:19:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4AA016A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from floyd.gnulife.org (floyd.gnulife.org [199.86.41.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2637E43D31 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:19:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) Received: from floyd.gnulife.org (localhost.gnulife.org [127.0.0.1]) by floyd.gnulife.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2K0HXiU000394; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:17:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost)i2K0HWIM000391; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:17:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) X-Authentication-Warning: floyd.gnulife.org: jamie owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:17:32 -0600 (CST) From: Jamie To: Martin Hudec In-Reply-To: <200403190811.28651.corwin@aeternal.net> Message-ID: <20040319180535.P379@floyd.gnulife.org> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200403190811.28651.corwin@aeternal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:19:25 -0000 I agree with your observations. I have noticed that the users on freebsd-questions are much more mature than the folks I've seen posting on a linux mailing list I am subscribed to. That is one of the things I really enjoy about the FreeBSD community and one of the primary reasons why I decided to make FreeBSD my new focus. Besides that, I am using FreeBSD at work now, which is a good thing. I also noticed that most of the responses to my misdirected post were not malicious, and those that were malicious were probably the product of an accumulation of frustrations with people who have posted to the wrong list in the past rather than a representation of their normal character. - Jamie On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Martin Hudec wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Good morning, > > Jamie, that is absolutely wrong to say that you didn't want to bother the > gurus and wizs. Everyone of those people, which you prefer to call gurus and > wizs, one time in a galaxy far far away were newbies like you, they stumbled > upon the same problems like you do nowadays as newbie. I would not prefer to > use such terms to highlight someone's knowledge. My experience from general > linux mailing lists is that members usually do sort themselves in some kind > of classes (user, power user, guru - use any terms you like). And this cause > that someone who is calling himself a newbie might get ignored by someone who > is calling himself as guru, just for this simple reason that he is guru and > that is too demeaning for him to answer this (from his point of view) simple > and easy question. The -question mailing list is just for asking tech support > questions no matter how simple or how complicated they seem to be. On > - -questions there are many people willing to help. And it looks like that > FreeBSD users are more grown up than linux users (my subjective opinion - > many of the linux so called gurus are still living in the opinion that they > are the best, they know everything because they don't use that redmond > operating system, so they see themselves as some kind of ueber-men..), so > they will answer, or at least try to shown the direction how to solve this or > that. If you ask for tech support here on -newbies list of course you might > get the right answer, but risk of getting less accurate answer here is more > higher than in -questions list. > You are saying that plenty of folks on -questions are getting flamed.. well I > have not seen this for quite time now (maybe I am not paying lot of attention > to list), but it is always nice to see that person asking for help did at > least some research on his own (reading log files, trying google.. "in google > non est, ergo non est"). Sometimes I see questions like "my proftpd server > stopped to work, please help" and those are the questions when I feel like I > need a crystall ball to find out what happened to the proftpd. Please don't > get me wrong. I always try to help, no matter how stupid or easy question > seems to be. I was new to world of FreeBSD once too (and I am still - maybe I > am good in ipfw traffic shaping, maybe I lack any experience at all in bind9 > matters etc.), and I needed (and sometimes I need) the same kind of help you > asking for now. What I hate is the guru-like approach like "rtfm! man > make.conf". That is too childish. Remember that the most stupid questions are > those which we are never about to ask. Enjoy and explore that nice world of > FreeBSD and its possibilities. > > cheers, > Martin > > On Fri March 19 2004 05:43, Jamie wrote: > > Sorry, I should have read the charter. I didn't want to bother the > > gurus and wizards with what I thought might be a question which would come > > from someone inexperienced, and title "newbies" *sounded* like a good > > place to ask it. I was just judging it by the name of the group, and not > > by the charter, so thats how I made my mistake. To me, newbies sounds like > > a haven for those whose asbestos underwear are away at the laundromat. Had > > I read the charter, I wouldn't have posted in newbies. > > > > I see plenty of folks in freebsd-questions getting flamed for not reading > > the manual, when I think in fact many of them are so inexperienced > > that they aren't aware of just where the manual they need is yet, or > > whether the additional manual they need even exists. A lot of questions > > are probably even ignored because people read the questions and think to > > themselves "I won't answer this - the guy hasn't read the manual, or he > > doesn't have a clue what is going on". Sometimes the person with the > > question may have read the manual but misunderstood it, or could not > > locate the relevant docs. > > > > > - -- > : > :. kind regards > :.. Martin Hudec > :.: > :.: =w= http://www.aeternal.net > :.: =m= +421.907.303393 > :.: =@= corwin@aeternal.net > :.: > :.: "When you want something, all the universe > :.: conspires in helping you to achieve it." > :.: - The Alchemist (Paulo Coelho) > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQFAWp0gZYEZIv+rgggRAp6pAJ9ZhEyWSgFIVXkSztIF5+gW3AS2ywCggP2b > 5+vF5SlCV0EUVOzbgu03U5k= > =0gKn > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Greetings from Minneapolis, MN, United States "A friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself." From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 19 16:39:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7AD16A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:39:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from floyd.gnulife.org (floyd.gnulife.org [199.86.41.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E185E43D41 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) Received: from floyd.gnulife.org (localhost.gnulife.org [127.0.0.1]) by floyd.gnulife.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2K1bTkm000587; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:37:30 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost)i2K1bTkB000584; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:37:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jamie@gnulife.org) X-Authentication-Warning: floyd.gnulife.org: jamie owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:37:29 -0600 (CST) From: Jamie To: Martin Hudec In-Reply-To: <20040319180535.P379@floyd.gnulife.org> Message-ID: <20040319192953.Q535@floyd.gnulife.org> References: <1079648282.405a201a64217@savaka.com> <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040319180535.P379@floyd.gnulife.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:39:04 -0000 Just one more thing I'd like to add is that I acknowledge I deserve any grief I received for posting to the wrong list in the first place, and that my comment in my second paragraph: > I also noticed that most of the responses to my misdirected post were > not malicious, and those that were malicious were probably the product > an accumulation of frustrations with people who have posted to the wrong > list in the past rather than a representation of their normal character. shouldn't subtract from the idea that I deserved any snide remarks made by anyone, because I know I should have read the charter. I apologize for upsetting your place here at freebsd-newbies. - Jamie On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Jamie wrote: > > > I agree with your observations. I have noticed that the users on > freebsd-questions are much more mature than the folks I've seen posting on > a linux mailing list I am subscribed to. That is one of the things I > really enjoy about the FreeBSD community and one of the primary reasons > why I decided to make FreeBSD my new focus. Besides that, I am using > FreeBSD at work now, which is a good thing. > > I also noticed that most of the responses to my misdirected post were > not malicious, and those that were malicious were probably the product of > an accumulation of frustrations with people who have posted to the wrong > list in the past rather than a representation of their normal character. > > > - Jamie > > > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Martin Hudec wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Good morning, > > > > Jamie, that is absolutely wrong to say that you didn't want to bother the > > gurus and wizs. Everyone of those people, which you prefer to call gurus and > > wizs, one time in a galaxy far far away were newbies like you, they stumbled > > upon the same problems like you do nowadays as newbie. I would not prefer to > > use such terms to highlight someone's knowledge. My experience from general > > linux mailing lists is that members usually do sort themselves in some kind > > of classes (user, power user, guru - use any terms you like). And this cause > > that someone who is calling himself a newbie might get ignored by someone who > > is calling himself as guru, just for this simple reason that he is guru and > > that is too demeaning for him to answer this (from his point of view) simple > > and easy question. The -question mailing list is just for asking tech support > > questions no matter how simple or how complicated they seem to be. On > > - -questions there are many people willing to help. And it looks like that > > FreeBSD users are more grown up than linux users (my subjective opinion - > > many of the linux so called gurus are still living in the opinion that they > > are the best, they know everything because they don't use that redmond > > operating system, so they see themselves as some kind of ueber-men..), so > > they will answer, or at least try to shown the direction how to solve this or > > that. If you ask for tech support here on -newbies list of course you might > > get the right answer, but risk of getting less accurate answer here is more > > higher than in -questions list. > > You are saying that plenty of folks on -questions are getting flamed.. well I > > have not seen this for quite time now (maybe I am not paying lot of attention > > to list), but it is always nice to see that person asking for help did at > > least some research on his own (reading log files, trying google.. "in google > > non est, ergo non est"). Sometimes I see questions like "my proftpd server > > stopped to work, please help" and those are the questions when I feel like I > > need a crystall ball to find out what happened to the proftpd. Please don't > > get me wrong. I always try to help, no matter how stupid or easy question > > seems to be. I was new to world of FreeBSD once too (and I am still - maybe I > > am good in ipfw traffic shaping, maybe I lack any experience at all in bind9 > > matters etc.), and I needed (and sometimes I need) the same kind of help you > > asking for now. What I hate is the guru-like approach like "rtfm! man > > make.conf". That is too childish. Remember that the most stupid questions are > > those which we are never about to ask. Enjoy and explore that nice world of > > FreeBSD and its possibilities. > > > > cheers, > > Martin > > > > On Fri March 19 2004 05:43, Jamie wrote: > > > Sorry, I should have read the charter. I didn't want to bother the > > > gurus and wizards with what I thought might be a question which would come > > > from someone inexperienced, and title "newbies" *sounded* like a good > > > place to ask it. I was just judging it by the name of the group, and not > > > by the charter, so thats how I made my mistake. To me, newbies sounds like > > > a haven for those whose asbestos underwear are away at the laundromat. Had > > > I read the charter, I wouldn't have posted in newbies. > > > > > > I see plenty of folks in freebsd-questions getting flamed for not reading > > > the manual, when I think in fact many of them are so inexperienced > > > that they aren't aware of just where the manual they need is yet, or > > > whether the additional manual they need even exists. A lot of questions > > > are probably even ignored because people read the questions and think to > > > themselves "I won't answer this - the guy hasn't read the manual, or he > > > doesn't have a clue what is going on". Sometimes the person with the > > > question may have read the manual but misunderstood it, or could not > > > locate the relevant docs. > > > > > > > > > - -- > > : > > :. kind regards > > :.. Martin Hudec > > :.: > > :.: =w= http://www.aeternal.net > > :.: =m= +421.907.303393 > > :.: =@= corwin@aeternal.net > > :.: > > :.: "When you want something, all the universe > > :.: conspires in helping you to achieve it." > > :.: - The Alchemist (Paulo Coelho) > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) > > > > iD8DBQFAWp0gZYEZIv+rgggRAp6pAJ9ZhEyWSgFIVXkSztIF5+gW3AS2ywCggP2b > > 5+vF5SlCV0EUVOzbgu03U5k= > > =0gKn > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > Greetings from Minneapolis, MN, United States > > "A friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself." > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Greetings from Minneapolis, MN, United States "A friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself." From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 19 19:10:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC5016A4CE for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 868F243D45 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (sue@localhost [127.0.0.1]) i2K3AGbv085287 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from sue@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2K3AGtw085282 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:10:16 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <200403200310.i2K3AGtw085282@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies FAK X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:10:16 -0000 FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://people.freebsd.org/~sue/newbies/fak.html FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. It is particularly important to send all installation questions and answers to FreeBSD-Questions so that they only appear in one place. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for FreeBSD help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. We can help people to use the FreeBSD mailing lists and resources, or to interact more productively with the broader FreeBSD community. These are not support questions, and not technical, so we deal with them here. Everyone can help with these new user orientation requests. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ Mailing list membership To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Use the easy form at http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies to subscribe to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list, or to change your subscription details if you are already a member. To Unsubscribe from FreeBSD-Newbies: To stop receiving list emails, simply follow the unsubscribe link that appears at the bottom of each email you receive from the mailing list. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org is distributed to all members of the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 20 10:16:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F6B16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from more.smaller.net (more.smaller.net [216.110.205.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E96C443D1F for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shines@smaller.net) Received: (qmail 4376 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2004 18:16:34 -0000 Received: from c-24-21-225-44.client.comcast.net (HELO sal) (24.21.225.44) by more.smaller.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2004 18:16:34 -0000 From: "Sally Hines" To: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:30 -0800 Message-ID: <002001c40ea7$78391270$6c01a8c0@sal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-Spam-Rating: more.smaller.net 0/1/N Subject: RE: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:16:35 -0000 I am receiving the -questions list. I delete the messages as they are = too many, and too detailed for me. Not to mention that most are not relevant = to any experience I am having. How can I ask a question on the -questions list and get the response? I cannot read them all, they are too many for me. I would rather that = there was a "-newbies questions" list, where some more experienced folks are willing to take some time to explain simple questions and concepts to newbies. I know this will not happen, it is just my wish. I know that the first thing to do is "read the manual", and I try. I = need a list that will help me to understand what I read in the man pages. Right now I am getting an error message when I try to do portupgrade. I = am very reluctant to try to send that error message to the -questions list. Sally Hines Older user -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Greg 'groggy' = Lehey Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:04 PM To: Anurak C. Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Eric Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. On Friday, 19 March 2004 at 9:23:52 +0700, Anurak C. wrote: > On Friday, March 19, 2004 5:18 AM, Eric wrote: >> Quoting Freddie Cash : >> >>>> On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote: >>>>> I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am=20 >>>>> having a really rough time. ... >>> >>> And once again we're shown why technical questions are NOT to be=20 >>> asked on the newbies list. This list is NOT for technical support. = >>> This list is to discuss the newbie experience. What works for you,=20 >>> what wonderful things you've discovered, your experiences with=20 >>> FreeBSD at home or work. Things like that. Consider it a coffee=20 >>> shop where everyone comes after work to just shoot the breeze about=20 >>> life. >>> >>> Technical questions should be asked on the FreeBSD-Questions mailing = >>> list, where all the gurus and wizards lurk. They can provide=20 >>> answers that are correct on the first shot, and consistent from=20 >>> poster to poster. >> >> Frankly I can't decide which is more annoying - receiving user=20 >> questions posted on the "wrong" discussion list, or receiving=20 >> complaints that the user questions were posted on the "wrong"=20 >> discussion list. > > This is my first time to post to this mailing list. I can call myself = > a newbie as well. I would like to share my point of view that there=20 > are many people out there who doesn't know where to ask easy=20 > questions. Most new arrival to FreeBSD or Unix world think that they=20 > are coming to another new world full of gurus and hackers. Unix seems=20 > to be the world for experts. This concern was the original reason for this mailing list. > I realize that FreeBSD-newbies is not for technical questions but it=20 > is just the general agreement or a concept. It's the charter: Welcome to FreeBSD! This list is a gathering place for people new to FreeBSD. Please feel free to share your experiences with others on this list. Support questions should be sent to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. Technical questions should be sent to freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org. (NOT to the newbies list please) Full info and FAK http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ Please read the info and FAK. They contain important information regarding the purpose and use of this mailing list. To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the freebsd-newbies Archives The reasoning for this is twofold: 1. People on -newbies are, by definition, newbies. In general, they understand the system less well than people who have been around for a while. As a result, the answers you get from them may not be as accurate as the answers you would get on -questions. 2. Most members of mailing lists never post. They just lurk and learn by the questions and answers sent by other people. This is also the reason why we ask people to copy the list on answers. > All of us know this agreement but > still answer again and again. I don't know why. I have seen many people > here offer help to new comers without complaining them. Maybe there = is > something compromising in our community, Daemon? > > I am not convincing everyone to violate the agreement but please be patient > to new comers. We may answer them and suggest them to ask in > FreeBSD-questions for more detail. This usually doesn't happen. It would be a lot better if people would respect the charter. It's there for a reason. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the = original text. =20 For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 20 10:17:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09FA916A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from more.smaller.net (more.smaller.net [216.110.205.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B430C43D41 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:17:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shines@smaller.net) Received: (qmail 4423 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2004 18:17:10 -0000 Received: from c-24-21-225-44.client.comcast.net (HELO sal) (24.21.225.44) by more.smaller.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2004 18:17:10 -0000 From: "Sally Hines" To: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:17:06 -0800 Message-ID: <002101c40ea7$8d9ab470$6c01a8c0@sal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <853AE3A7-79BE-11D8-9740-00039383C51E@noaa.gov> X-Spam-Rating: more.smaller.net 0/1/N Subject: RE: FreeBSD-newbies is a community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:17:11 -0000 What does it mean? You would not build your crypto framework from ports? What is crypto framework? Why not ports? What options are there? Sally An older user (newbie, just old) -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Ash Gokhale Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:00 AM To: Tom McLaughlin Cc: grog@freebsd.org; freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Eric@savaka.com Subject: FreeBSD-newbies is a community. btw: I would not build _my_ crypto framework from ports. *wink from walden two, Ash.Gokhale@noaa.gov System Administration Lead, NOAA/MDL _______________________________________________ freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-newbies To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-newbies-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 20 13:17:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE9E16A50E for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3361D43E5A for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:55:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rpratt1950@earthlink.net) Received: from user103.net736.fl.sprint-hsd.net ([65.41.157.103] helo=kt.weeble.com) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1B4nUw-0000NZ-00; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:55:14 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:55:12 -0500 From: Randy Pratt To: Sally Hines Message-Id: <20040320155512.0205db3c.rpratt1950@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:17:12 -0000 On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:30 -0800 Sally wrote: (reformatted to less than 72 characters per line) > > I am receiving the -questions list. I delete the messages as they > are too many, and too detailed for me. Not to mention that most are > not relevant to any experience I am having. Its not necessary to subscribe to any mailing list that you wish to read. You can view the current week's lists at: http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/ Once you find the lists you want to read, then you can make a bookmark or document with a list of html links. I read almost all the lists online without piling up in my mailbox. Its much easier to be selective about what to read this way. > How can I ask a question on the -questions list and get the > response? I cannot read them all, they are too many for me. I would > rather that there was a "-newbies questions" list, where some more > experienced folks are willing to take some time to explain simple > questions and concepts to newbies. I know this will not happen, > it is just my wish. You do not have to subscribe to the freebsd-questions mailing list in order to post a question. Most people will CC: you on any response, but it wouldn't hurt to remind them that you are not subscribed and would appreciate a CC. I'm fairly sure that if you post your questions that you would get some reasonable pointers in the right directions. The days of "RTFM" and "man foo" are pretty much gone and answers are more complete. Just take care to be polite, provide as much relevant information as possible, and indicate what you've tried to solve the problem. People are much more willing to help someone who demonstrates a willingness to learn how to solve their own issues. > I know that the first thing to do is "read the manual", and I try. > I need a list that will help me to understand what I read in the > man pages. That is an excellent start. When you first start trying to learn new things, its often necessary to build a foundation to work from. Once you have that foundation, then things start to click and those manual pages start to make sense. They're not meant to be tutorials, but references. Also, don't forget the mailing list archives. They are a gold mine of information. Chances are, that if you have a question, it has been asked before! If you can't find your answer, I have been using this search link for awhile: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=mailing.freebsd You can select an option that causes it to only search the FreeBSD mailing lists. Also, be sure and try different keyword combinations. > Right now I am getting an error message when I try to do > portupgrade. I am very reluctant to try to send that error > message to the -questions list. That error message is important. That is what people on the -questions mailing list will need to see in order to offer any assistance. I will point out that there is a new document been added that may be of help: /usr/ports/UPDATING This document contains issues that may affect you during port updating. Give that a read and see if that may help with your problem. If not, then review http://www.lemis.com/questions.html and send your question to the list. If you don't understand the responses, just ask for more clarification. This also helps add more to the archives which help others in the future. I hope this helps a little and gives you needed encouragement. And, by the way, Welcome to FreeBSD ;-) Best regards, Randy -- From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 20 13:19:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A731116A4D4 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from more.smaller.net (more.smaller.net [216.110.205.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 42E4243D2D for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:19:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shines@smaller.net) Received: (qmail 29776 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2004 21:19:31 -0000 Received: from c-24-21-225-44.client.comcast.net (HELO sal) (24.21.225.44) by more.smaller.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2004 21:19:31 -0000 From: "Sally Hines" To: Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:19:26 -0800 Message-ID: <003201c40ec1$06775f60$6c01a8c0@sal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Rating: more.smaller.net 0/1/N Subject: Responses to my posts X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:19:32 -0000 I have received some replies to my post responding to the = FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community thread. I want to thank everyone that = has responded. The posts have been very helpful and informative.=20 Had these posts appeared on the list in the past I probably would not = have the issues I have now with FreeBSD and getting my own help. = Unfortunately, the discouragement from answering questions on the list have really compromised the stated purpose of the list, to encourage the newbie in = using the resources available to get useful results.=20 I would like to either request permission from the folks that have = posted to me, to send their replies back to the list, or to ask the posters to = send the replies directly to the list. Patient, helpful advice on how to use the resources available is = invaluable, and necessary for this list to function, I believe. I've been on this = list for a year now, and have never seen this type of post to the open list. = I wish I had, as I'd be very much farther in my exploration of and = learning the FreeBSD system. Pardon my long run-on sentences. But I do appreciate the help I've = gotten today, and I'd really like to see this list provide that help to all the newbies that subscribe. Sally Hines Little Old Granny newbie From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 20 13:33:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D77316A509 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:33:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from therub.org (pantheon-ws-13.direct.hickorytech.net [216.114.200.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06704404E for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:06:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drue@therub.org) Received: from drue by therub.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B4nfl-000456-00; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:06:25 -0600 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:06:25 -0600 To: Sally Hines Message-ID: <20040320210625.GF652@therub.org> References: <20040319030343.GA21807@wantadilla.lemis.com> <002001c40ea7$78391270$6c01a8c0@sal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002001c40ea7$78391270$6c01a8c0@sal> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i From: Dan Rue cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community. X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:33:49 -0000 On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 10:16:30AM -0800, Sally Hines wrote: > How can I ask a question on the -questions list and get the response? I > cannot read them all, they are too many for me. Get a mail reader that can sort by threads :) I see that you're using outlook - It may or may not. Any MUA worth it's salt will sort by thread, and that is the _only_ way to manage freebsd-questions.. Dan From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 20 18:30:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD2C16A4CE for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ozlabs.org (ozlabs.org [203.10.76.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95A443D31 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:30:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from blackwater.lemis.com (blackwater.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5A782BD53 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:30:08 +1100 (EST) Received: by blackwater.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id D9A1751211; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:00:06 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:00:06 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Sally Hines Message-ID: <20040321023006.GM52612@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <003201c40ec1$06775f60$6c01a8c0@sal> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/jkxxxtAhYIHVDuh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <003201c40ec1$06775f60$6c01a8c0@sal> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Responses to my posts X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:30:11 -0000 --/jkxxxtAhYIHVDuh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday, 20 March 2004 at 13:19:26 -0800, Sally Hines wrote: > I have received some replies to my post responding to the FreeBSD-newbies > group is a compromise community thread. I want to thank everyone that has > responded. The posts have been very helpful and informative. > > Had these posts appeared on the list in the past I probably would not have > the issues I have now with FreeBSD and getting my own help. Unfortunately, > the discouragement from answering questions on the list have really > compromised the stated purpose of the list, to encourage the newbie in using > the resources available to get useful results. Well, no, the stated purpose of the list is *not* to answer technical questions. > I would like to either request permission from the folks that have > posted to me, to send their replies back to the list, or to ask the > posters to send the replies directly to the list. No, please don't. newbies@ is *not* a technical questions list. > Sally Hines > Little Old Granny newbie Maybe you should talk to Auntie Sue, the moderator of this list. Greg -- Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. --/jkxxxtAhYIHVDuh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAXP4uIubykFB6QiMRAqmlAKCTNdwufF+CEJUaJpetY/a4QitLSgCfQxj1 uKNeg9+NUKYm6yo91wK/Jqw= =fVjx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/jkxxxtAhYIHVDuh--