From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 3 18:36:54 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB8516A4CE for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 18:36:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA1E43D3F for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 18:36:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fteg@london.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180])8917918002B5 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 18:36:47 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 3 May 2005 18:36:47 -0000 Received: by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 49FEA4BEAD; Tue, 3 May 2005 18:36:47 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [213.187.181.70] by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for fteg@london.com; Tue, 03 May 2005 13:36:47 -0500 From: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 13:36:47 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 213.187.181.70 X-Originating-Server: ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050503183647.49FEA4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: OPEN SOURCE MASTERPLANS X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 18:36:54 -0000 Hello! In an effort to balance the awareness and usage of free and open source among the world's population, I am trying to obtain as many open source masterplans (in PDF) as possible. I plan to have them translated, revised and compiled into one masterplan above all masterplans which I can then distribute to people who would need it more than others, such as poor countries, etc. These can either originate from: 1. Democratic governments 2. Universities and R&D agencies 3. Private companies and institutions Can you obtain one from your country? Or your vision? Please send them to me, and thank you for listening! I will eventually publish whatever I find to: http://www.home.no/barbershop/osm All the best, -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Senior Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Furious @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 5 12:36:13 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCD616A4CE for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 12:36:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CACF43DBA for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 12:36:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fteg@london.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180])5BB29180020C for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 12:36:11 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 5 May 2005 12:36:11 -0000 Received: by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3FED84BEAE; Thu, 5 May 2005 12:36:11 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [213.187.181.70] by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for fteg@london.com; Thu, 05 May 2005 07:36:11 -0500 From: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, openbsd-advocacy@openbsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@openbsd.org Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 07:36:11 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 213.187.181.70 X-Originating-Server: ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050505123611.3FED84BEAE@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: Plans for promoting and implementing F/OSS and BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 12:36:13 -0000 Hello. I am trying to find text or PDF formatted material that can contribute to my effort to promote free and open source software specifically under the various BSD platforms to world leaders. This is a project to gather all the best rhetorics, facts and figures, which will be compiled into somewhat of a masterplan released under the creative commons license for governments, universities and research agencies to later further once feasibility studies reveal their local conditions. It is my belief that open source technology, better known as free computing, can contribute to the growth of a nation by not only cutting costs, but also by involving its people in F/OSS development so that the nation can become more technology aware. Looking at it from this angle, all BSD systems would benefit dramatically. This is not an attempt to privatize open source advocacy. Although that might have been a good idea. I've tried to request this on regular user mailinglists, but I've been flamed rather extensively. No wonder really, I was looking at the wrong place. I've been told the advocacy lists would be more suitable. Common sense tell me I may be right. Time will tell if that is true. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.bleed.no --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 5 13:02:52 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D079016A4CE for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 13:02:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from makeworld.com (makeworld.com [216.201.118.142]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 713E243D5A for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 13:02:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from racerx@makeworld.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.com [127.0.0.1]) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A503F60E7; Thu, 5 May 2005 08:02:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from makeworld.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (makeworld.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 38133-02; Thu, 5 May 2005 08:02:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: by makeworld.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4690760E2; Thu, 5 May 2005 08:02:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by makeworld.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F78160D7; Thu, 5 May 2005 08:02:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 08:02:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris To: Fafa Hafiz Krantz In-Reply-To: <20050505123611.3FED84BEAE@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20050505080033.R38159@makeworld.com> References: <20050505123611.3FED84BEAE@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by ClamAV 0.75.1/amavisd-new-2.2.1 (20041222) at makeworld.com - Isn't it ironic cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: netbsd-advocacy@openbsd.org cc: openbsd-advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Plans for promoting and implementing F/OSS and BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 13:02:52 -0000 On Thu, 5 May 2005, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > Hello. > > I am trying to find text or PDF formatted material that can contribute > to my effort to promote free and open source software specifically under > the various BSD platforms to world leaders. > > This is a project to gather all the best rhetorics, facts and figures, > which will be compiled into somewhat of a masterplan released under the > creative commons license for governments, universities and research > agencies to later further once feasibility studies reveal their local > conditions. It is my belief that open source technology, better known as > free computing, can contribute to the growth of a nation by not only > cutting costs, but also by involving its people in F/OSS development so > that the nation can become more technology aware. Looking at it from > this angle, all BSD systems would benefit dramatically. > > This is not an attempt to privatize open source advocacy. > Although that might have been a good idea. > > I've tried to request this on regular user mailinglists, but I've been > flamed rather extensively. No wonder really, I was looking at the wrong > place. I've been told the advocacy lists would be more suitable. > > Common sense tell me I may be right. > Time will tell if that is true. > > -- > > Fafa Hafiz Krantz > Research Designer @ http://www.bleed.no > Fafa, The best place to start is at each of the listed OS's you sent to. Each website has tons of docs/link that can give you info from how to distribute down to each of the OS's copyright statements. That is by far the best and easiest place to start. The hard pard will be to format it to suit your purposes. Good luck. Best regards, Chris In order for something to become clean, something else must become dirty. ... but you can get everything dirty without getting anything clean. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 10:24:23 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1BA16A4D0 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:24:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C066543DAB for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:24:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fteg@london.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180])B1BB818001BE for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:24:22 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 6 May 2005 10:24:22 -0000 Received: by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A309C4BEAD; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:24:22 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [213.187.181.70] by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for fteg@london.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 05:24:22 -0500 From: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" To: questions@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 05:24:22 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 213.187.181.70 X-Originating-Server: ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050506102422.A309C4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 10:24:23 -0000 Hey! I believe that the FreeBSD Project -- representing an open and democratic rule and not a totalitarian power -- should allow its users to decide what logo would be best suited. Hence, it would be in the best interest for the future of this project to put all logo submissions up for public display. This display should be complimented by a voting system. It is very important to get things right from the start. Look at the NetBSD Project and their new logo for instance. The public expressed great discontent about it, but only after the logo had sunken deep into the cycles of production and the mentalities of its contributors. Even though designers do this for free (and I am sure most act out of their love for the system and not because of the reward), the framework of their profession should still apply. That is, a contract protecting their rights from malicious intentions. The FreeBSD Project should acknowledge that the elected designer is entitled some say in the redesign of FreeBSD's website. Its coders would most likely not know the first thing about design, and hence compromise FreeBSD's image and its potential as conceived by the designer. If the website design also should be staged as a competition, it would be in the best interest of the project to let the identity designer cooperate with the website designer on the final outcome. We all want what is best for FreeBSD. Having said that, there should be no reason to fight over this. A working design contract in need of modification: http://www.aiga.org/resources/Content/1/4/6/documents/AIGA_contract.pdf -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.bleed.no Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 11:34:15 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3211F16A4D0 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:34:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tower.berklix.org (bsd.bsn.com [194.221.32.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A4F43D60 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:34:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A4F7E.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.79.126]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j46BYB8o020715; Fri, 6 May 2005 13:34:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from fire.jhs.private (fire.jhs.private [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j46BY4qg002431; Fri, 6 May 2005 13:34:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from fire.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.jhs.private (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46BY4B9006622; Fri, 6 May 2005 13:34:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200505061134.j46BY4B9006622@fire.jhs.private> To: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" In-Reply-To: Message from "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" <20050506102422.A309C4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 13:34:04 +0200 From: "Julian H. Stacey" cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 11:34:15 -0000 "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" wrote: > Message-id: <20050506102422.A309C4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> > cc: questions@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Desist breaching FreeBSD list charter else you will be reported for blocking. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL "No posting should be made to more than 2 mailing lists, and only to 2 when..." - Julian Stacey Net & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 13:29:51 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A77C16A4D3 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 13:29:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from green.dls.net (green.dls.net [209.242.20.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C50F43DA9 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 13:29:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from emailrob.com (240-dls801.dls.net [216.145.235.240]) by green.dls.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B0B411825 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:31:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <427B6361.6090902@emailrob.com> Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 07:30:25 -0500 From: rob_spellberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <200505061134.j46BY4B9006622@fire.jhs.private> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 13:29:51 -0000 julian --- i'll just assume you've had a tough week at the office and you're tired. it seems to me that if an infrequent poster, with good intentions, trying to be helpful, commits a minor breach of regulations [ if it's a first offense, this kind --is-- minor ], the appropriate response is a gentle chiding. this usually elicits a sheepish, but sincere, apology and the infraction is never repeated. [ on the other hand, frequent violation by one who is clearly aware calls for a response that i can only describe, wishing to remain in good taste, as medieval. ] are you a drinkin' fella? if you are in your usual time zone, it's gettin' close to quittin' time. i recommend that you repair to a local brauhaus and savor one of those fine local beverages that are, oh, so expensive on this side of the pond. maybe several. as for me, about ten hours from now, i anticipate a fine dominican cigar. maybe two. if the band is in good form, three. ciao, rob Julian H. Stacey wrote: > "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" wrote: > >>Message-id: <20050506102422.A309C4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> >>cc: questions@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org > > > Desist breaching FreeBSD list charter else you will be reported for blocking. > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL > "No posting should be made to more than 2 mailing lists, > and only to 2 when..." > - > Julian Stacey Net & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com > Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 18:41:10 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96AC816A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 18:41:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2836E43D39 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 18:41:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from davidjohnson@siemens.com) Received: from mvwcim1a.acuson.com ([157.226.95.42]:2798 helo=mvwcim1a.ww005.siemens.net) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DU7l6-0005Ib-4r for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 06 May 2005 11:41:08 -0700 Received: by mvwcim1a.ww005.siemens.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:41:08 -0700 Message-ID: <6F2F8FD3FBCF7A489CB18912A4807EBA0E077D@mvwcim1a.ww005.siemens.net> From: Johnson David To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 11:41:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 18:41:10 -0000 From: Fafa Hafiz Krantz [mailto:fteg@london.com] > > I believe that the FreeBSD Project -- representing an open and > democratic rule and not a totalitarian power The FreeBSD Project is not a totalitarian power. Trust me on this. Never once in its long history has the FreeBSD Project ever oppressed or subjugated a user. There have been rumours of domination, but I understand it is between consenting partners... The FreeBSD project, as will all other Free Software projects, are governed not by "rule", but by 100% pure voluntary cooperation. If it ends up that people don't like the new logo, they simply will refuse to use it. End of story. > Having said that, there should be no reason to fight over this. No one who has read and understood the contest announcement is fighting over this. David Johnson From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 19:11:24 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBF7616A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 19:11:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD16943D69 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 19:11:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fteg@london.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180])B984E18001A0 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 19:11:24 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 6 May 2005 19:11:24 -0000 Received: by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A82384BEAD; Fri, 6 May 2005 19:11:24 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [213.187.181.70] by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for fteg@london.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 14:11:24 -0500 From: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" To: "Johnson David" , advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 14:11:24 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 213.187.181.70 X-Originating-Server: ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050506191124.A82384BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> cc: logo-contest@FreeBSD.org Subject: RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 19:11:25 -0000 Thank you for your reply, David! > The FreeBSD Project is not a totalitarian power. Trust me on this. Never > once in its long history has the FreeBSD Project ever oppressed or > subjugated a user. There have been rumours of domination, but I understand > it is between consenting partners... I don't feel subjugated. But I do feel ignored. Since I brought these issues up, the contest crew have been silent. > The FreeBSD project, as will all other Free Software projects, are govern= ed > not by "rule", but by 100% pure voluntary cooperation. I am glad to hear that. > If it ends up that people don't like the new logo, they simply will refuse > to use it. End of story. How are they suppose to do that? :) If the logo goes into print and production, it would be too late. > No one who has read and understood the contest announcement is fighting o= ver > this. Then it is me versus the logo crew. 1) I want them to open this contest for public view and voting. 2) I want them to acknowledge the rights of the elected designer. What is wrong with public view and voting? It would allow the combined aesthetic force of our entire community to make this tough decision, as opposed to some people who imagine they're in charge. The community would also be able to notify the coordinators whether some of the logos are ripoffs or close to be qualified as such. Thanks. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 19:50:10 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E04616A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 19:50:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525D843D60 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 19:50:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from davidjohnson@siemens.com) Received: from mvwcim1a.acuson.com ([157.226.95.42]:1269 helo=mvwcim1a.ww005.siemens.net) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DU8pr-00019f-4n for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 06 May 2005 12:50:07 -0700 Received: by mvwcim1a.ww005.siemens.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 6 May 2005 12:50:09 -0700 Message-ID: <6F2F8FD3FBCF7A489CB18912A4807EBA0E0780@mvwcim1a.ww005.siemens.net> From: Johnson David To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:50:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: RE: SPAM: Score 2.5: RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 19:50:10 -0000 From: Fafa Hafiz Krantz [mailto:fteg@london.com] > > I don't feel subjugated. But I do feel ignored. > Since I brought these issues up, the contest crew have been silent. Being ignored does not make FreeBSD "totalitarian", which was your concern. Totalitarians are people with guns and police and jails and executions. This isn't an authoritarian state, because there is no threat of deadly force to coerce you into compliance with a politician's wishes. Neither is it a democracy, because the same lack of political authority prevents compelling you to the wishes of the majority. > > If it ends up that people don't like the new logo, they simply will refuse > > to use it. End of story. > > How are they suppose to do that? :) Simply by refusing to use it! There is nothing compelling me to use the new logo if I don't want to. If this is too hard to understand, it may be because it's so absurdly simple that you're overlooking the obvious. If FreeBSD Mall or DaemonNews doesn't want to use the new logo on their CD distributions, they don't have to. If FreshPorts doesn't want to use the new logo on its website, it doesn't have to. > If the logo goes into print and production, it would be too late. It might be "too late" in terms of an official logo. But there's nothing that would stop the community from adopting an unofficial logo instead, should they decide to do so. In fact, if the official logo happens to be distasteful enough to the community, there's nothing stopping a fork from occuring. In reality, however, the logo will probably end up being quite satisfactory. > Then it is me versus the logo crew. > > 1) I want them to open this contest for public view and voting. > 2) I want them to acknowledge the rights of the elected designer. To be blunt, your wants are irrelevant. Volunteerism is a two way street. Not only is FreeBSD unable to force its logo upon you, you are also unable to force your wishes upon the logo crew. David Johnson From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 20:01:40 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF5616A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 20:01:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92C843D41 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 20:01:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fteg@london.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180])C1EB81800320 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 20:01:39 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 6 May 2005 20:01:39 -0000 Received: by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AD5444BEAD; Fri, 6 May 2005 20:01:39 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [213.187.181.70] by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for fteg@london.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 15:01:39 -0500 From: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" To: "Johnson David" , advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 15:01:39 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 213.187.181.70 X-Originating-Server: ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050506200139.AD5444BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 20:01:40 -0000 Trying to subjugate my voice into spam now? > Being ignored does not make FreeBSD "totalitarian", which was your concer= n. > Totalitarians are people with guns and police and jails and executions. T= his > isn't an authoritarian state, because there is no threat of deadly force = to > coerce you into compliance with a politician's wishes. Neither is it a > democracy, because the same lack of political authority prevents compelli= ng > you to the wishes of the majority. I know that. This is the Internet. > If it ends up that people don't like the new logo, they simply will > refuse to use it. End of story. > > > > How are they suppose to do that? :) >=20 > Simply by refusing to use it! There is nothing compelling me to use the n= ew > logo if I don't want to. If this is too hard to understand, it may be > because it's so absurdly simple that you're overlooking the obvious. If > FreeBSD Mall or DaemonNews doesn't want to use the new logo on their CD > distributions, they don't have to. If FreshPorts doesn't want to use the = new > logo on its website, it doesn't have to. You said people. I assumed regular people. People who don't own the biggest FreeBSD related websites. I can't avoid seeing the parts of my body when I use it, know what I mean? > > If the logo goes into print and production, it would be too late. >=20 > It might be "too late" in terms of an official logo. But there's nothing > that would stop the community from adopting an unofficial logo instead, > should they decide to do so. In fact, if the official logo happens to be > distasteful enough to the community, there's nothing stopping a fork from > occuring. In reality, however, the logo will probably end up being quite > satisfactory. This struck me as an official competition. And you are most right, the result should be quite satisfactory. > > Then it is me versus the logo crew. > > > > 1) I want them to open this contest for public view and voting. > > 2) I want them to acknowledge the rights of the elected designer. >=20 > To be blunt, your wants are irrelevant. Volunteerism is a two way street. > Not only is FreeBSD unable to force its logo upon you, you are also unable > to force your wishes upon the logo crew. Isn't that sort of contradictory: > Never once in its long history has the FreeBSD Project ever oppressed or > subjugated a user. I'm not forcing. I'm suggesting. Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could participate? -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 21:07:15 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D00916A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 21:07:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E45F43D45 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 21:07:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tomasq@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 34so1030138nzf for ; Fri, 06 May 2005 14:07:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=q0v5GRaEZMF8HFlXkdKR2JEywRvONd5A0mCNZmN6e9Eqccna1zaEntXqFsE+UzTfCp2jpNinSwT/08iHvyc7KEIhL/AgzpqTIjSAvzE6Qys0Nd11kHTniObab8tlDXnp1mWkhiusu51gAsO3tjASLERE22si8GEPmlCKiD6MlXs= Received: by 10.36.12.2 with SMTP id 2mr846198nzl; Fri, 06 May 2005 14:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.2.19 with HTTP; Fri, 6 May 2005 14:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9e46c99e050506140757082176@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 17:07:11 -0400 From: Tomas Quintero To: Fafa Hafiz Krantz In-Reply-To: <20050506102422.A309C4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050506102422.A309C4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> cc: questions@freebsd.org cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Tomas Quintero List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 21:07:15 -0000 On 5/6/05, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: >=20 > Hey! >=20 > I believe that the FreeBSD Project -- representing an open and > democratic rule and not a totalitarian power -- should allow its > users to decide what logo would be best suited. Hence, it would > be in the best interest for the future of this project to put > all logo submissions up for public display. This display should > be complimented by a voting system. >=20 > It is very important to get things right from the start. Look at > the NetBSD Project and their new logo for instance. The public > expressed great discontent about it, but only after the logo had > sunken deep into the cycles of production and the mentalities > of its contributors. >=20 > Even though designers do this for free (and I am sure most act > out of their love for the system and not because of the reward), > the framework of their profession should still apply. That is, a > contract protecting their rights from malicious intentions. >=20 > The FreeBSD Project should acknowledge that the elected designer > is entitled some say in the redesign of FreeBSD's website. Its > coders would most likely not know the first thing about design, > and hence compromise FreeBSD's image and its potential as > conceived by the designer. If the website design also should be > staged as a competition, it would be in the best interest of the > project to let the identity designer cooperate with the website > designer on the final outcome. >=20 > We all want what is best for FreeBSD. > Having said that, there should be no reason to fight over this. >=20 > A working design contract in need of modification: > http://www.aiga.org/resources/Content/1/4/6/documents/AIGA_contract.pdf >=20 > -- >=20 > Fafa Hafiz Krantz > Research Designer @ http://www.bleed.no > Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=3Dfreebsd-questions&m=3D111537599232346&w= =3D2 I would refer you to this address Fafa, prior to posting on the lists continually. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=3D111537605900001&r=3D1&w=3D2 Perhaps that one, for the entire story. --=20 -Tomas Quintero From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 21:10:54 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E4416A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 21:10:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A68643D54 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 21:10:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B195B3D42; Fri, 6 May 2005 17:10:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 17:10:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <427BA51D.3312.ED32D8D@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20050506200139.AD5444BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.21c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 21:10:54 -0000 On 6 May 2005 at 15:01, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could participate? No. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ NEW brochure available at http://www.bsdcan.org/2005/advocacy/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 21:35:46 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BB8316A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 21:35:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3742143DA0 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 21:35:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from [206.255.31.21] (helo=yoda.datawok.com) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.34) id 1DUAU5-0002Mu-4v; Fri, 06 May 2005 17:35:45 -0400 From: "Andrew L. Gould" To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 16:35:56 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <427BA51D.3312.ED32D8D@localhost> In-Reply-To: <427BA51D.3312.ED32D8D@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200505061635.56675.algould@datawok.com> X-ELNK-Trace: ee791d459e3d6817d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc5e21356e2870cb3042637dc111138e1f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 206.255.31.21 Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 21:35:46 -0000 On Friday 06 May 2005 04:10 pm, Dan Langille wrote: > On 6 May 2005 at 15:01, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could participate? > > No. As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and thus from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree with Dan's rather concise answer. I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any talent, I would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to the Core Team. They've certainly earned it. FreeBSD isn't a country of oppressed people. Using FreeBSD isn't some sort of god-given right. Often, we users could have a little more humility, show a little more appreciation and be a little less upity. (Did I spell that right?) Respectfully, Andrew Gould From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 22:34:09 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2AD16A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 22:34:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tower.berklix.org (bsd.bsn.com [194.221.32.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF91C43D70 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 22:34:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A40AD.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.64.173]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j46MY68o022310 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 00:34:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from fire.jhs.private (fire.jhs.private [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j46MY2RV003851 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 00:34:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from fire.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.jhs.private (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46MY2Jk020212 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 00:34:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200505062234.j46MY2Jk020212@fire.jhs.private> To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message from "Andrew L. Gould" <200505061635.56675.algould@datawok.com> Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 00:34:02 +0200 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 22:34:10 -0000 "Andrew L. Gould" wrote: > On Friday 06 May 2005 04:10 pm, Dan Langille wrote: > > On 6 May 2005 at 15:01, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > > Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could participate? > > No. > As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and thus > from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree with Dan's > rather concise answer. > > I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any talent, I > would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to the Core Team. I recall hearing of an announcement to comitters list that they'd get a vote. - though that's not on http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/announce.txt > They've certainly earned it. Yes. - Julian Stacey Net & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 6 23:11:17 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C7F16A4D4 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 23:11:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22F543DAC for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 23:11:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from [206.255.31.21] (helo=yoda.datawok.com) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.34) id 1DUByW-0004UI-WD; Fri, 06 May 2005 19:11:17 -0400 From: "Andrew L. Gould" To: advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 18:11:26 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200505062234.j46MY2Jk020212@fire.jhs.private> In-Reply-To: <200505062234.j46MY2Jk020212@fire.jhs.private> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200505061811.26360.algould@datawok.com> X-ELNK-Trace: ee791d459e3d6817d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bca16035879e72a28508a003126c9ee933350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 206.255.31.21 cc: "Julian H. Stacey" Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 23:11:18 -0000 On Friday 06 May 2005 05:34 pm, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > "Andrew L. Gould" wrote: > > On Friday 06 May 2005 04:10 pm, Dan Langille wrote: > > > On 6 May 2005 at 15:01, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > > > Wouldn't it be more fair to everyone if everyone could > > > > participate? > > > > > > No. > > > > As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and > > thus from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree > > with Dan's rather concise answer. > > > > I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any > > talent, I would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to > > the Core Team. > > I recall hearing of an announcement to comitters list that they'd get > a vote. - though that's not on > http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/announce.txt I don't know either way. Perhaps I used the term "Core Team" incorrectly. However the developers choose to handle it is fine with me. > > > They've certainly earned it. > > Yes. > - > Julian Stacey Net & Sys Eng Consultant, Munich > http://berklix.com Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam). Ihr Rauch = mein > allergischer Kopfschmerz. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 7 11:11:28 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0716316A4D9 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:11:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E344D43D73 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:11:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fteg@london.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180])D757418001AE for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:11:27 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 May 2005 11:11:27 -0000 Received: by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CB1E14BEAD; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:11:27 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [213.187.181.70] by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for fteg@london.com; Sat, 07 May 2005 06:11:27 -0500 From: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" To: "Dan Langille" Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 06:11:27 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 213.187.181.70 X-Originating-Server: ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050507111127.CB1E14BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 11:11:28 -0000 > No. What a pathetic answer. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 7 11:22:59 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FF716A4D9 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:22:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2455A43D9F for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:22:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fteg@london.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180])15A2E18001BA for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:22:59 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 May 2005 11:22:59 -0000 Received: by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 041AA4BEAD; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:22:58 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [213.187.181.70] by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for fteg@london.com; Sat, 07 May 2005 06:22:58 -0500 From: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" To: "Andrew L. Gould" , advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 06:22:58 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 213.187.181.70 X-Originating-Server: ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050507112258.041AA4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 11:22:59 -0000 > > No. >=20 > As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and thus > from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree with Dan's > rather concise answer. That is your manifesto. FreeBSD is more dependant of its users than its users are of FreeBSD. FreeBSD needs to live. Users could always switch to Linux. > I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any talent, I > would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to the Core Team. > They've certainly earned it. I agree with you on that. They have earned it. But since it was the community of regular users that spawned the discussions which eventually lead to this logo change, I believe that the community should also get to participate in it. > FreeBSD isn't a country of oppressed people. Using FreeBSD isn't some > sort of god-given right. Often, we users could have a little more > humility, show a little more appreciation and be a little less upity. > (Did I spell that right?) FreeBSD is for man kind by man kind. FreeBSD is for rich, spoiled people by rich, spoiled people. The same way FreeBSD is for oppressed people, by oppressed people. All people. We users (those of us who represent the next generation) are the ones that'll eventually be put in charge of the project after our current leaders retire or die. I also agree with you that most BSD people need a change of attitude. 30% of all e-mails are more rude than even people with intentions to kill would utter before killing. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 7 11:24:22 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B4416A4DA for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:24:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18B343DB4 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:24:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fteg@london.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180])C855618001A7 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:24:21 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 May 2005 11:24:21 -0000 Received: by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id BAA854BEAD; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:24:21 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [213.187.181.70] by ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for fteg@london.com; Sat, 07 May 2005 06:24:21 -0500 From: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" To: "Julian H. Stacey" , advocacy@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 06:24:21 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 213.187.181.70 X-Originating-Server: ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050507112421.BAA854BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 11:24:22 -0000 > I recall hearing of an announcement to comitters list that they'd get a v= ote. > - though that's not on http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/announce.txt Now we are talking :) > > They've certainly earned it. >=20 > Yes. Uhuh! Ain't nothing wrong with that. -- Fafa Hafiz Krantz Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 7 11:51:14 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576FF16A4D9 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:51:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E91B43D31 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:51:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA833D42; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:50:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 07:51:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <427C7371.31315.11F92426@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20050507111127.CB1E14BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.21c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 11:51:14 -0000 On 7 May 2005 at 6:11, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > > No. > > What a pathetic answer. And arguing about a logo isn't? Get a life. There are much more important things to be obsessive compulsive about. If you are as concerned about FreeBSD as you say you are, do something constructive. All I've see so far is useless banter. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ NEW brochure available at http://www.bsdcan.org/2005/advocacy/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 7 13:39:43 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19ED16A4DB for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:39:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF26443DA6 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:39:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from algould@datawok.com) Received: from [206.255.31.21] (helo=[192.168.63.10]) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.34) id 1DUPWw-0006JT-UA; Sat, 07 May 2005 09:39:43 -0400 From: "Andrew L. Gould" To: "Fafa Hafiz Krantz" Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:39:53 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20050507112258.041AA4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> In-Reply-To: <20050507112258.041AA4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200505070839.53351.algould@datawok.com> X-ELNK-Trace: ee791d459e3d6817d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc01806c40af0670e9ad0e0a5447fe7db3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 206.255.31.21 cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 13:39:44 -0000 On Saturday 07 May 2005 06:22 am, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > > > No. > > > > As a user that has reaped far more benefit from the FreeBSD, and > > thus from its developers, than I could ever contribute, I agree > > with Dan's rather concise answer. > > That is your manifesto. > > FreeBSD is more dependant of its users than its users are of FreeBSD. Only in the case where the users are also developers. A bunch of developers who choose to develop software for their own use have no inherent need for us. If you want a rational discussion, you'll need to come down to Earth. > FreeBSD needs to live. Users could always switch to Linux. FreeBSD does not "need to live". If all of its developers and users decided to move on to something else, that would be okay. FreeBSD survives because it provides great benefit and many enjoy developing it. There is no moral obligation, however, for the project to continue. > > > I have expressed my views in the email lists; and if I had any > > talent, I would submit a logo. The decision, however, belongs to > > the Core Team. They've certainly earned it. > > I agree with you on that. They have earned it. > > But since it was the community of regular users that spawned the > discussions which eventually lead to this logo change, I believe that > the community should also get to participate in it. > > > FreeBSD isn't a country of oppressed people. Using FreeBSD isn't > > some sort of god-given right. Often, we users could have a little > > more humility, show a little more appreciation and be a little less > > upity. (Did I spell that right?) > > FreeBSD is for man kind by man kind. > FreeBSD is for rich, spoiled people by rich, spoiled people. > The same way FreeBSD is for oppressed people, by oppressed people. > > All people. FreeBSD is for those who want to use it; but that usage does not provide any rights to its users. There is no obligation for the Project to provide support to its users. You can get FreeBSD for free; and you already get more than you paid for. > > We users (those of us who represent the next generation) are the ones > that'll eventually be put in charge of the project after our current > leaders retire or die. It's my understanding that contributors, **not users** run the project. > > I also agree with you that most BSD people need a change of attitude. Always start with improving yourself. > 30% of all e-mails are more rude than even people with intentions to > kill would utter before killing. You're being overly dramatic. > > -- > > Fafa Hafiz Krantz > Research Designer @ http://www.home.no/barbershop > Enlightened @ http://www.home.no/barbershop/smart/sharon.pdf