From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 21:31:57 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23DB16A46B for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:31:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from murray@stokely.org) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CADD13C4D1 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:31:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from murray@stokely.org) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id y2so477773uge.37 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.221.5 with SMTP id t5mr1361572ugg.83.1197407061535; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:04:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.67.94.9 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:04:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:04:21 -0800 From: "Murray Stokely" To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: Events calendar looking bare X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:31:57 -0000 I know there must be more events scheduled in 2008 so far besides just AsiaBSDCon and BSDCan. Are there other events with a FreeBSD presence that should be added here? http://www.freebsd.org/events/ Is there a date set for EuroBSDCon yet? NYCBSDCon? The Brazillian event? Turkey? GUFICon in Milan? - Murray From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 22:37:21 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4C916A421 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:37:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from ella.lautre.net (ella.lautre.net [80.67.160.76]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575FE13C4EC for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:37:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from graf.pompo.net (graf.pompo.net [81.56.186.139]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.lautre.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071154C2E0 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:07:15 +0100 (CET) Received: by graf.pompo.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id ED93F11422; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:07:10 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:07:10 +0100 From: Thierry Thomas To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20071211220710.GQ85387@graf.pompo.net> Mail-Followup-To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org References: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="T4sUOijqQbZv57TR" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> X-Face: (hRbQnK~Pt7$ct`!fupO(`y_WL4^-Iwn4@ly-.,[4xC4xc; y=\ipKMNm<1J>lv@PP~7Z<.t KjAnXLs: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA2 i386 Organization: Kabbale Eros X-PGP: 0xC71405A2 Cc: Subject: Re: Events calendar looking bare X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:37:21 -0000 --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Le Mar 11 d=E9c 07 =E0 22:04:21 +0100, Murray Stokely =E9crivait=A0: > I know there must be more events scheduled in 2008 so far besides just > AsiaBSDCon and BSDCan. Are there other events with a FreeBSD presence > that should be added here? >=20 > http://www.freebsd.org/events/ >=20 > Is there a date set for EuroBSDCon yet? NYCBSDCon? The Brazillian > event? Turkey? GUFICon in Milan? There will be a FreeBSD presence at "Solutions Linux", 29, 30 & 31 january 2008 in Paris: (although no FreeBSD logo is visible!) Regards, --=20 Th. Thomas. --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHXwoOc95pjMcUBaIRAlKjAJwOMhx+PcY1HtqrFTAhI+oVpEb+HwCfbe5Z djuWryGhzvzc/QeyF0lNrtk= =Ibub -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 15:38:19 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB04416A419 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:38:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from liste@encephalon.de) Received: from digitiminimi.de (digitiminimi.de [217.172.44.71]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6141413C458 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:38:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from liste@encephalon.de) Received: from localhost (digitiminimi.de [217.172.44.71]) by digitiminimi.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E0169B4BE; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:40:48 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at digitiminimi.de Received: from digitiminimi.de ([217.172.44.71]) by localhost (main.digitiminimi.de [217.172.44.71]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MpfXRjrnzPXu; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:40:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from cojote.suedfac.com (sffwd2.suedfactoring.de [212.202.224.253]) by digitiminimi.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14E879B4B8; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:40:38 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <994E7947-B7E2-4498-AD87-A88D1BCB745C@encephalon.de> From: "Axel S. Gruner" To: Murray Stokely In-Reply-To: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:20:27 +0100 References: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Events calendar looking bare X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:38:19 -0000 Hi Murray, Am 11.12.2007 um 22:04 schrieb Murray Stokely: > I know there must be more events scheduled in 2008 so far besides just > AsiaBSDCon and BSDCan. Are there other events with a FreeBSD presence > that should be added here? > > http://www.freebsd.org/events/ > > Is there a date set for EuroBSDCon yet? NYCBSDCon? The Brazillian > event? Turkey? GUFICon in Milan? FreeBSD (and all the others) will be at FOSDEM from 23. - 24. Februrary: http://www.fosdem.org/2008/stands Also the BSDCertification Group announced the BSDA exam at FOSDEM: http://www.fosdem.org/2008/bsda Cheers, Axel From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 17:27:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A884116A417 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:27:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dlavigne6@sympatico.ca) Received: from toq8-srv.bellnexxia.net (bc.sympatico.ca [209.226.175.204]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34EE513C4D5 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:27:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dlavigne6@sympatico.ca) Received: from toip6.srvr.bell.ca ([209.226.175.125]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20071212155751.FVLB18413.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.srvr.bell.ca> for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:57:51 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CABOUX0dGN7TW/2dsb2JhbAA Received: from unknown (HELO dru.domain.org) ([70.55.180.214]) by toip6.srvr.bell.ca with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2007 10:55:34 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:00:19 -0500 (EST) From: Dru X-X-Sender: dlavigne6@dru.domain.org To: Murray Stokely In-Reply-To: <994E7947-B7E2-4498-AD87-A88D1BCB745C@encephalon.de> Message-ID: <20071212105842.R635@dru.domain.org> References: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> <994E7947-B7E2-4498-AD87-A88D1BCB745C@encephalon.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Events calendar looking bare X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:27:26 -0000 On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, Axel S. Gruner wrote: > Hi Murray, > > Am 11.12.2007 um 22:04 schrieb Murray Stokely: > >> I know there must be more events scheduled in 2008 so far besides just >> AsiaBSDCon and BSDCan. Are there other events with a FreeBSD presence >> that should be added here? >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/events/ >> >> Is there a date set for EuroBSDCon yet? NYCBSDCon? The Brazillian >> event? Turkey? GUFICon in Milan? > > FreeBSD (and all the others) will be at FOSDEM from 23. - 24. Februrary: > http://www.fosdem.org/2008/stands > > Also the BSDCertification Group announced the BSDA exam at FOSDEM: > http://www.fosdem.org/2008/bsda There will also be a FreeBSD booth at SCALE, February 8-10 in LA: http://www.socallinuxexpo.org Dru From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 18:07:50 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB0916A417 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:07:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rodrigo@bebik.net) Received: from postfix2-g20.free.fr (postfix2-g20.free.fr [212.27.60.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00AC13C457 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:07:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rodrigo@bebik.net) Received: from smtp4-g19.free.fr (smtp4-g19.free.fr [212.27.42.30]) by postfix2-g20.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F5E92118DE1 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:46:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-g19.free.fr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C1133EA147 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:47:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from hodja.bebik.net (gam75-4-82-235-223-127.fbx.proxad.net [82.235.223.127]) by smtp4-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D463EA141 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:47:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by hodja.bebik.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D84332843E; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:50:30 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:50:30 +0100 From: "Rodrigo OSORIO (ros)" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071212175030.GA61539@hodja.bebik.net> References: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> <994E7947-B7E2-4498-AD87-A88D1BCB745C@encephalon.de> <20071212105842.R635@dru.domain.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071212105842.R635@dru.domain.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Subject: Re: Events calendar looking bare X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:07:50 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 11:00:19AM -0500, Dru wrote: > > > On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, Axel S. Gruner wrote: > > >Hi Murray, > > > >Am 11.12.2007 um 22:04 schrieb Murray Stokely: > > > >>I know there must be more events scheduled in 2008 so far besides just > >>AsiaBSDCon and BSDCan. Are there other events with a FreeBSD presence > >>that should be added here? > >> > >> http://www.freebsd.org/events/ > >> > >>Is there a date set for EuroBSDCon yet? NYCBSDCon? The Brazillian > >>event? Turkey? GUFICon in Milan? > > > >FreeBSD (and all the others) will be at FOSDEM from 23. - 24. Februrary: > >http://www.fosdem.org/2008/stands > > > >Also the BSDCertification Group announced the BSDA exam at FOSDEM: > >http://www.fosdem.org/2008/bsda > > > There will also be a FreeBSD booth at SCALE, February 8-10 in LA: > > http://www.socallinuxexpo.org > > Dru In january will also be the .Solution Linux. exhibition in Paris, France http://www.solutionslinux.fr/en/index.php FreeBSD will be in the .Forum des associations. : http://www.solutionslinux.fr/en/exposer_associations.php From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 19:01:36 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317E016A41B for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:01:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9164113C44B for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:01:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A4714.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.71.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lBCJ1Vw9025543; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:01:32 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBCJ1kRB098220; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:01:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost.js.berklix.net [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBCJ1kGn030123; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:01:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200712121901.lBCJ1kGn030123@fire.js.berklix.net> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <20071212175030.GA61539@hodja.bebik.net> References: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> <994E7947-B7E2-4498-AD87-A88D1BCB745C@encephalon.de> <20071212105842.R635@dru.domain.org> <20071212175030.GA61539@hodja.bebik.net> Comments: In-reply-to "Rodrigo OSORIO (ros)" message dated "Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:50:30 +0100." Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:01:46 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Murray Stokely Subject: Re: Events calendar looking bare X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:01:36 -0000 > From: "Murray Stokely" > I know there must be more events scheduled in 2008 so far besides just > AsiaBSDCon and BSDCan. Are there other events with a FreeBSD presence > that should be added here? > > http://www.freebsd.org/events/ German Unix User Group has its spring conference in Munich, 11-14 March 2008. http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/ffg2008/ (In German) doesn't yet list talks, but I wouldn't be suprised if some BSD. I heard at Monday's Sage/Muc talk on CPUs (copy here in German: http://www.guug.de/lokal/muenchen/index.html ) that GUUG have received about twice as many proposals for talks, as slots available, but still open for more if submitted quickly. BTW There's a nice BSD + VOIP + Penguin logo here: http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/index.html I'll copy this to Berkeley In Munich http://berklix.org/bim/ list, maybe we'll discuss BSD for GUUG ideas at the Dec. 19th BIM meeting. -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 21:54:51 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 505AE16A418 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:54:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from DS@praxisvermittlung24.de) Received: from mail.sw-sec.de (mail.sw-sec.de [212.204.60.86]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE12A13C455 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:54:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from DS@praxisvermittlung24.de) Received: from [192.168.115.11] (62-167-21-24.static.adslpremium.ch [62.167.21.24]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.sw-sec.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id lBCLeQA7038941; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:40:26 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from DS@praxisvermittlung24.de) Message-ID: <47605626.1050807@praxisvermittlung24.de> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:44:06 +0100 From: Daniel Seuffert Organization: Seuffert & Waidmann User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Murray Stokely References: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2a7894eb0712111304l5ed9cf84sd413529a3ed9fef8@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Events calendar looking bare X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: DS@praxisvermittlung24.de List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:54:51 -0000 Murray Stokely schrieb: > I know there must be more events scheduled in 2008 so far besides just > AsiaBSDCon and BSDCan. Are there other events with a FreeBSD presence > that should be added here? > > http://www.freebsd.org/events/ > > Is there a date set for EuroBSDCon yet? NYCBSDCon? The Brazillian > event? Turkey? GUFICon in Milan? Alll BSDs will be present at Linuxtag Chemnitz as usual: http://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2008/info/ I will mail Joseph Koshy as usual for other events once they are set. Best regards, Daniel From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 05:25:31 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5371216A41A for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:25:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405F813C43E for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:25:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so888552waf.3 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:25:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=cIwfmynzcEV6/87Gz4LaXvQ4iLV2jlrSpNDvjWyeZJI=; b=nY0ggdxJpqUyIAOV78O5DQB+fUZuKO5lesbZbW3TLreYegUtJwiZnMu1XW2YUbbOUw8GbDO3wpJo4K/54KLjagmY5J4emeFhtFRv561JbIuKG3V/dnnIBOR/dFYKJ74ocVkX51pCcBt0eWGEyDnX1+dgWQ6Ytod4+sOWZB+5iKg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=EzRpizaOKTclAKurhxc18fKFX010I5goS00S8qm8cMZVsxhWX9Oiz3IX1oe7LjTLuFHh6tA6Cht8ojC6AtjanTFHEcN+HgRZqKmBw8ku5SQAohLGeve21/Q+FAibfvtMn39aMf6rUJxuKVTCFiW0c55Lp0TVkM8MoskJVeCJ7P8= Received: by 10.115.109.1 with SMTP id l1mr1733427wam.136.1197522052449; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.110.15 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:00:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:00:52 -0800 From: Grant To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:25:31 -0000 It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. How would you compare the two OSes? - Grant From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 09:15:22 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F3F16A419 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:15:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@xk7.net) Received: from telos.xk7.net (telos.xk7.net [80.68.91.117]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06F413C459 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:15:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@xk7.net) Received: by telos.xk7.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CDCA360268; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:52:18 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:52:18 +0000 From: Paul Waring To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071213085217.GE29386@telos.xk7.net> References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:15:22 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 09:00:52PM -0800, Grant wrote: > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > How would you compare the two OSes? Gentoo isn't really an operating system, it's a Linux distribution - the only way in which it differs from other distributions (say Debian) is in its package management. The project has slowed down noticeably over the past few years (I used to be more involved than I am now and I've watched the decline), but I don't think that has anything to do with FreeBSD. I suppose if you wanted to do a comparison you could look at hardware compatibility (more important for laptops than servers, as last time I tried FreeBSD wouldn't even boot on my laptop, but it doesn't matter as much for servers as you won't have lots of fancy graphics cards to support for example) and ease of installation/use of default setup. The software available is largely the same - you can install OpenOffice on both distributions, run all popular server software etc., there isn't really that much to choose between them as a user in my opinion. Paul -- Paul Waring http://www.pwaring.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 09:32:27 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E7916A417 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:32:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A453513C459 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:32:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from lack-of-gravitas.thebunker.net (gateway.ash.thebunker.net [213.129.64.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id lBD9WGab040232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:32:21 GMT (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Message-ID: <4760FC20.9030608@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:32:16 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman Organization: Infracaninophile User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071129) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Grant References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.187.76.162]); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:32:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.2/5110/Wed Dec 12 20:42:31 2007 on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_FAIL autolearn=no version=3.2.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:32:27 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Grant wrote: > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > How would you compare the two OSes? We use mainly a mixture of FreeBSD and Gentoo at work. Virtually all of the application software you would want to use will work on either system -- the exceptions being certain proprietary bits such as the very latest Flash or management applications for particular RAID controllers. The Unix environment is pretty much the same, although /bin/sh on FreeBSD is not bash -- that you'ld have to install from ports. There are various odd differences in commands but those tend to be the more obscure bits as both systems comply with POSIX.2 Things you'll find different: * Although portage was certainly inspired by ports, it is a very different beast. They fulfil much the same function, but don't get frustrated when you start thinking in the portage way and find that doesn't map onto ports very well. Ports is, to paraphrase Terry Pratchett, intuitively obvious once you've spent enough time learning how it works. * You'll find that the base FreeBSD system being separated from the rest of the installed software seems odd at first. Especially when you start looking under /etc for configuration files that FreeBSD puts under /usr/local/etc. You will quickly come to appreciate that it makes a huge difference in the ease and manageability of maintaining the system. * I tend to find that FreeBSD comes with much better diagnostic and monitoring capabilities built in -- programs like systat and gstat have no direct equivalents, and things like vmstat often seem to be missing from Gentoo boxes, although that is probably just an oversight by the person building the system. * Although either OS will work in either role, Gentoo-ers seem to me principally interested in developing the desktops, whereas FreeBSD-ers think "network server" first of all. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. Flat 3 7 Priory Courtyard PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW, UK -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHYPwg3jDkPpsZ+VYRA7pcAKChv1PJ0eHTMcts5YeFMW5bnw0jnACgpdEd 7FoLHWlXviWk+dh+pSUwTNc= =V2b8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 14:12:56 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B7C16A418 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:12:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.179]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC2413C468 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:12:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so1152131waf.3 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:12:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=elPDz3+wloI1REk0K78U7SfrIbSGNwWZEoR5EqlW+/c=; b=mobECs3VK48Z/ulT/ghHoTiUKqfbsUFVRgnhfy/fzG9iZblleghE293j5XfgpYikUzQEfXJkxtCJh4YpTr2V2ay23XfnHEABkn5/mF42+422aGn6ARj2gwGX/XF1SpbMbiXITbSsGZPdVtsdSYQEMCtzbAEwyBXDPiGmirVWIoI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=sK6F1O9/4PdcqtBg0OeV0WGtGukORPbiPgjBBpm9Qqpio/EqMJyrJNqmrtIc5Qe21YFCksS4Mj8jSet1SU8VEiE6kIFhDwAF9Fp/8axLhy8p1gkS/oHwsah4lCSg+fkODVeUadgukahTLSl+xB/KdwJOmNkFaASKqoeXYcKWP+k= Received: by 10.114.59.1 with SMTP id h1mr764433waa.39.1197555175386; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:12:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.110.15 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:12:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49bf44f10712130612q72d55f7cgeb1647ca00718b86@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:12:55 -0800 From: Grant To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4760FC20.9030608@infracaninophile.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <4760FC20.9030608@infracaninophile.co.uk> Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:12:56 -0000 > > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > > How would you compare the two OSes? > > We use mainly a mixture of FreeBSD and Gentoo at work. Virtually all > of the application software you would want to use will work on either > system -- the exceptions being certain proprietary bits such as the very > latest Flash or management applications for particular RAID controllers. > The Unix environment is pretty much the same, although /bin/sh on FreeBSD > is not bash -- that you'ld have to install from ports. There are various > odd differences in commands but those tend to be the more obscure bits > as both systems comply with POSIX.2 What about skype, wengo, and vmware workstation? Do they work on FreeBSD? > Things you'll find different: > > * Although portage was certainly inspired by ports, it is a very > different beast. They fulfil much the same function, but don't > get frustrated when you start thinking in the portage way and > find that doesn't map onto ports very well. Ports is, to > paraphrase Terry Pratchett, intuitively obvious once you've spent > enough time learning how it works. >From what I've read, ports is much faster and generally much better than portage. > * You'll find that the base FreeBSD system being separated from the > rest of the installed software seems odd at first. Especially > when you start looking under /etc for configuration files that > FreeBSD puts under /usr/local/etc. You will quickly come to > appreciate that it makes a huge difference in the ease and > manageability of maintaining the system. Makes sense to me. > * I tend to find that FreeBSD comes with much better diagnostic and > monitoring capabilities built in -- programs like systat and gstat > have no direct equivalents, and things like vmstat often seem to > be missing from Gentoo boxes, although that is probably just an > oversight by the person building the system. Does FreeBSD take the nothing-is-installed-that-I-don't-want approach like Gentoo does? > * Although either OS will work in either role, Gentoo-ers seem > to me principally interested in developing the desktops, > whereas FreeBSD-ers think "network server" first of all. Am I likely to struggle with FreeBSD on a laptop? I booted FreeSBIE just fine but I didn't test for sound. I would imagine 64-bit support in FreeBSD is excellent, but what about support of 32-bit binaries (e.g. the above listed) on a 64-bit system? - Grant From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 17:20:48 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9083E16A418 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:20:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-01.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-01.bluehost.com [69.89.21.11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 477DC13C43E for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:20:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 393 invoked by uid 0); 13 Dec 2007 17:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2007 17:20:46 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J2rjq-0002yl-I2 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:20:46 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lBDHKjkA017510 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:20:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lBDHKiM6017509 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:20:44 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071213172044.GF11231@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <4760FC20.9030608@infracaninophile.co.uk> <49bf44f10712130612q72d55f7cgeb1647ca00718b86@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <49bf44f10712130612q72d55f7cgeb1647ca00718b86@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:20:48 -0000 On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 06:12:55AM -0800, Grant wrote: > > What about skype, wengo, and vmware workstation? Do they work on FreeBSD? I have no idea, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else on the list can answer that. I've never used any of the three. > > >From what I've read, ports is much faster and generally much better > than portage. I certainly like it a lot more -- and it *can be* faster, at least. I haven't done enough comparison to really be able to answer that with certainty. > > > * I tend to find that FreeBSD comes with much better diagnostic and > > monitoring capabilities built in -- programs like systat and gstat > > have no direct equivalents, and things like vmstat often seem to > > be missing from Gentoo boxes, although that is probably just an > > oversight by the person building the system. > > Does FreeBSD take the nothing-is-installed-that-I-don't-want approach > like Gentoo does? Pretty much. There are a few things in the base system that one might consider "not necessary" to a minimal install, but there's little enough there that it hasn't bothered me at all -- and I'm kind of a stickler for keeping things relatively minimal in a lot of ways. > > Am I likely to struggle with FreeBSD on a laptop? I booted FreeSBIE > just fine but I didn't test for sound. I don't think you're likely to encounter problems any more than with Linux, generally, unless you expect 3D accelerated graphics using a Radeon adapter. As for sound -- my experience is that sound configuration on FreeBSD is much *much* easier than on Linux systems in general. ALSA has, from time to time, been the bane of my existence. Getting sound working on FreeBSD (complete with multiple channels so that more than one application at a time can produce sound) has never taken me more than about three minutes. > > I would imagine 64-bit support in FreeBSD is excellent, but what about > support of 32-bit binaries (e.g. the above listed) on a 64-bit system? I still haven't used FreeBSD on a system with a 64b processor, so I'm afraid you'll have to get answers to this one from someone else, too. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Dr. Ron Paul: "Liberty has meaning only if we still believe in it when terrible things happen and a false government security blanket beckons." From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 17:23:46 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0134C16A419 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:23:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-37.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-37.bluehost.com [69.89.20.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE42213C468 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:23:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 3908 invoked by uid 0); 13 Dec 2007 17:23:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2007 17:23:45 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J2rmj-0003en-7T for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:23:45 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lBDHNiFw017542 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:23:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lBDHNhmV017541 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:23:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:23:43 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071213172343.GG11231@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <20071213085217.GE29386@telos.xk7.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071213085217.GE29386@telos.xk7.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:23:46 -0000 On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 08:52:18AM +0000, Paul Waring wrote: > > Gentoo isn't really an operating system, it's a Linux distribution - the > only way in which it differs from other distributions (say Debian) is in > its package management. I've been running into the notion that Linux distributions aren't operating systems lately -- two or three times now. I find this immensely confusing. The way things are going, it seems that ultimately the term "operating system" will never be allowed to apply to anything that has anything at all to do with the Linux kernel, period. 1. The kernel isn't an OS (I happen to agree with this one). It's just a kernel, and it takes more than a kernel to make an OS. 2. The distro isn't an OS (I happen to disagree with this one). It's just a distribution, which, um, differs from an OS in that it, um, isn't an OS. 3. What the heck *is* an OS? -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] They always say that when life gives you lemons you should make lemonade. I always wonder -- isn't the lemonade going to suck if life doesn't give you any sugar? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 18:50:40 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B180416A473 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:50:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sdavtaker@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5144613C457 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:50:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sdavtaker@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so246281anc.13 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:50:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UeIicmalaBxd21z1dJq5eZCoLUYK8HJ7YGMS1D5BRkw=; b=J3PHDmoTgUow11mkYTjyMkRWloRP5tL9kCmzSYYD/2WqdZi9h+lfFrGRsc+2brT9K1TnjygpO8QbFj+oMnG+CbjlltHSTqMyVhVOZmg/SYDZEcV1TkCiItL4IGkEZR2sONNDpcfsByddsZRfCnQR6U0rMjGBtxIaIey5/IAjP5M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=OXfXUHJoW//QLtR9OUXgpSmnVd6GKGC+/WOTg/Sg5f2ciol/HMNTRnhVW3ULn8WeMxWUzWulv7gyK2fOILdFz/2k8w2fcK4aRU+7EVTjRpnJj21JIcR+JtkgeMzV5eQyGFsV9HPMqOBaJCqdSffAE0kbt3YshUbR6aYlHrBpwl0= Received: by 10.100.34.16 with SMTP id h16mr4774910anh.114.1197571839702; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:50:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.100? ( [190.18.36.119]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c44sm6313975hsc.2007.12.13.10.50.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:50:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47617EF9.1070000@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:50:33 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sd=E4vtaker?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <20071213085217.GE29386@telos.xk7.net> <20071213172343.GG11231@demeter.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20071213172343.GG11231@demeter.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:50:40 -0000 Chad Perrin escribi=F3: > On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 08:52:18AM +0000, Paul Waring wrote: >> Gentoo isn't really an operating system, it's a Linux distribution - t= he >> only way in which it differs from other distributions (say Debian) is = in >> its package management. >=20 > I've been running into the notion that Linux distributions aren't > operating systems lately -- two or three times now. I find this > immensely confusing. The way things are going, it seems that ultimatel= y > the term "operating system" will never be allowed to apply to anything > that has anything at all to do with the Linux kernel, period. >=20 > 1. The kernel isn't an OS (I happen to agree with this one). It's ju= st > a kernel, and it takes more than a kernel to make an OS. >=20 > 2. The distro isn't an OS (I happen to disagree with this one). It's= > just a distribution, which, um, differs from an OS in that it, um, > isn't an OS. >=20 > 3. What the heck *is* an OS? >=20 If you want a fast read:=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_of_an_Operating_= System_.28OS.29 But there is a lot more info in Tanenbaum books, Staling books, or=20 Silverschatz books, the three of them named "operating systems". Rule of the thumb... If you find an easy application who runs in one=20 "Distribution" and it doesnt run in another one, then you can be pretty=20 sure those are not the same OS. =3D) From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 19:19:50 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D76A16A480 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:19:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-38.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-38.bluehost.com [69.89.20.192]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29A5D13C47E for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:19:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 12514 invoked by uid 0); 13 Dec 2007 19:19:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2007 19:19:49 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J2tb3-0007bP-Jg for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:19:49 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lBDJJmhj017982 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:19:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lBDJJl3W017981 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:19:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:19:47 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: FreeBSD Advocacy Message-ID: <20071213191947.GH11231@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Advocacy References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <20071213085217.GE29386@telos.xk7.net> <20071213172343.GG11231@demeter.hydra> <47617EF9.1070000@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <47617EF9.1070000@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:19:50 -0000 On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 03:50:33PM -0300, Sd?vtaker wrote: > > If you want a fast read: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Definition_of_an_Operating_System_.28OS.29 > But there is a lot more info in Tanenbaum books, Staling books, or > Silverschatz books, the three of them named "operating systems". > Rule of the thumb... If you find an easy application who runs in one > "Distribution" and it doesnt run in another one, then you can be pretty > sure those are not the same OS. =) So far, that looks like it matches my idea of an OS. So . . . how does this disqualify Gentoo? -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Marvin Minsky: "It's just incredible that a trillion-synapse computer could actually spend Saturday afternoon watching a football game." From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 20:14:16 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD4A16A417 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:14:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: from mailrly08.isp.novis.pt (mailrly08.isp.novis.pt [195.23.133.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1193013C46A for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:14:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from miguel@anjos.strangled.net) Received: (qmail 17806 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2007 19:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.196]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly08.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 13 Dec 2007 19:47:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 10871 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2007 19:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO satan.anjos.strangled.net) ([89.181.9.175]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 13 Dec 2007 19:47:34 -0000 Received: from satan.anjos.strangled.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by satan.anjos.strangled.net (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id lBDJlN7b008205; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:47:23 GMT (envelope-from miguel@satan.anjos.strangled.net) Received: (from miguel@localhost) by satan.anjos.strangled.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id lBDJlMeZ008204; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:47:22 GMT (envelope-from miguel) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:47:22 GMT From: Miguel Lopes Santos Ramos Message-Id: <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> To: emailgrant@gmail.com, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:14:17 -0000 > From: Grant > Subject: Current Gentoo user > > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > How would you compare the two OSes? > > - Grant I only have the time to give you a very general impression. I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile and install. Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; the base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, sendmail, pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base system) so you really can have an operational base system. For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + apache is enough, the same goes for database server. Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. Not so with Gentoo. Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, you don't need to add anything to the base system. FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server setups are covered in the handbook. Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're not a long time Linux geek. For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get properly compiled. On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo designers benefited from designing from scratch. On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to break things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps working. Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And it is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these days. There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, which would require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't supported. You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. Perhaps it's my lack of experience. On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, but I think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. Greetings, Miguel Ramos Lisboa, Portugal From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 20:17:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499F516A468 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:17:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D58313C43E for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:17:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A72E0.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.114.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lBDKHDhv037890; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:17:18 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBDKHSrL010374; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:17:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost.js.berklix.net [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBDKHR7Y090801; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:17:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200712132017.lBDKHR7Y090801@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Grant In-reply-to: <20071213172044.GF11231@demeter.hydra> References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <4760FC20.9030608@infracaninophile.co.uk> <49bf44f10712130612q72d55f7cgeb1647ca00718b86@mail.gmail.com> <20071213172044.GF11231@demeter.hydra> Comments: In-reply-to Chad Perrin message dated "Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:20:44 -0700." Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:17:27 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Emil Stoyanov Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:17:26 -0000 Chad Perrin wrote: > On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 06:12:55AM -0800, Grant wrote: > > What about skype, wengo, and vmware workstation? Do they work on FreeBSD? > I have no idea, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else on the list can > answer that. I've never used any of the three. A VOIP (ie Skype) Asterisk developer (Emil Stoyanov. cc'd) who is FreeBSD (& Linux) based did 2 presentations in Munich this year: Longer more technical version to Berkeley In Munich group 2007_01_17 http://www.berklix.org/bim/talks/asterisk_overview_2007_01_17/ Shorter less technical overview to Munich Faraday group 20th April 2007 http://www.berklix.com/free/talk/presentations/export/4_voip+bsd_v_linux_emil/ re. sound > I still haven't used FreeBSD on a system with a 64b processor Works on mine, uname & dmesg below: FreeBSD fire.js.berklix.net 6.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE #0: Mon Sep 17 23:01:21 CEST 2007 jhs@fire.js.berklix.net: /usr1/src/sys/amd64/compile/FIRE64.small amd64 CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+ (2010.07-MHz 686-class CPU) pcm0: port 0xe400-0xe4ff irq 22 at device 17.5 on pci0 pcm0: pcm0: -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 20:35:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964A216A46C for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:35:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F72E13C4E5 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:35:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so1333161waf.3 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:35:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=vQ/rYwWMs+j1gaPlQ+wvuZ5WpY58QP6rErlTYW83uSQ=; b=tnuT7yan6hvNJ9TD/5jsvxMsJpV/gRE5Rh27Kk64qS7h4gszlW1LhzTl2J156vB9YFGNjhY34KysoX0aaypDxJUAqppHER3r5sNLXOvkar3XNlykzIqpa7aiHppnZdCgowsDPzhS14w7FT3KbAcYMjTP8Kfnvc6BekSMuvIM9KM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Y4C9LIKXiDIFloLXg3Tg9aSthyGhQBS+IgQ7ytMQZlhX99YWVbxQi8WfF1by3ED1agQJ7bEiXDWx6xy7oBHnzk2470RTrPEEByJ3CgCsamqOMi+6/TtPB6w/jXkoUsTodeQmiA1KaTUm77H/K/uUwlBoIXR1hOAgZh8ao5yF+Js= Received: by 10.114.175.16 with SMTP id x16mr626918wae.12.1197578104810; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.110.15 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:35:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49bf44f10712131235v2d73a412k81ca9714911bfccd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:35:04 -0800 From: Grant To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:35:05 -0000 > > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > > How would you compare the two OSes? > > > > - Grant > > I only have the time to give you a very general impression. > I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current > employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. > For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... > > I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD > ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile and install. > > Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on > your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you > install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. I really like that. > On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; the > base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more > complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, sendmail, > pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base system) > so you really can have an operational base system. > For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + > apache is enough, the same goes for database server. > Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. > Not so with Gentoo. I really like the Gentoo concept here. > Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base > system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. > It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. > Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. Having a thoroughly working base system does sound really nice. > Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for > any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, > you don't need to add anything to the base system. > FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server > setups are covered in the handbook. > Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. > Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're > not a long time Linux geek. That's a huge plus for FreeBSD then. > For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get > google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even > FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get properly > compiled. That doesn't sound very good. I've got to be able to use Linux apps. That's for sure. > On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The > USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. > Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo > designers benefited from designing from scratch. > On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to break > things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop > working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps working. > Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. Interesting. I thought ports was better in every respect, but it sounds like they both have their advantages. > For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And it > is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these days. > There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. > > AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, which would > require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't supported. > You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. Sounds problematic. I still wonder about skype/wengo and vmware workstation. I'll have to do some Googling. > After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a > bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. > It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. Configuring the kernel with menuconfig is a pain. How is it handled differently with FreeBSD? > Perhaps it's my lack of experience. > On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even > the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, but I > think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. Can you tell me more about what you mean here? How is it much better? Easier kernel management? Thank you very much for taking the time to write. - Grant From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 21:02:52 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEEC16A41A for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:02:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benke@snere.com) Received: from blender1.ljusnet.se (mailhost1.ljusnet.se [80.65.193.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF9313C442 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:02:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benke@snere.com) Received: from hemma (87-249-171-116.ljusnet.se [87.249.171.116] (may be forged)) by blender1.ljusnet.se (8.14.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBDKltIN024436 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:48:04 +0100 From: "Inlibris" Sender: "Bengt-Erik Johansson" To: "'freebsd-advocacy'" Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:48:28 +0100 Organization: Inlibris Message-ID: <001401c83dc9$83c648b0$8b52da10$@at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcgxiSMly1N7PjjiSEGCHhwdcgRLzg== x-cr-hashedpuzzle: RKQ= CFVx CWho Cs8T Dqs3 Ebv4 Ex1d Ex5T FKxZ FLiu Fi3E GQAR HlBp H7xy H7/O JX1d; 1; ZgByAGUAZQBiAHMAZAAtAGEAZAB2AG8AYwBhAGMAeQBAAGYAcgBlAGUAYgBzAGQALgBvAHIAZwA=; Sosha1_v1; 7; {D2817C6F-0515-49F5-8943-7A4BB6F307DC}; YgBlAG4AawBlAEAAcwBuAGUAcgBlAC4AYwBvAG0A; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:48:18 GMT; QQBuAHQAaQBxAHUAZQAgAGIAbwBvAGsAcwAgAGEAbgBkACAAbQBhAG4AdQBzAGMAcgBpAHAAdABzACwAIABvAGYAZgAgAHQAbwAgAEQAdQBiAGEAaQA= x-cr-puzzleid: {D2817C6F-0515-49F5-8943-7A4BB6F307DC} Subject: Antique books and manuscripts, off to Dubai X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:02:52 -0000 Yesterday, a dozen heavy trunks with rare books, prints, and manuscripts = from the 15th to 20th centuries left Vienna, Austria, for Dubai in the = United Arab Emirates. Inlibris Gilhofer Nfg., dealers in rare books and = manuscripts, established in 1883 and regular suppliers to major national = libraries, universities, and museums worldwide for more than a century, = will be the only participating rare book dealer at the inaugural Dubai = International Fine Art and Antiques Fair. Our offer will include the most beautiful and valuable illustrated books = on natural history (including marine life, falconry, horsemanship, = birds, and flowers), history of civilization (including the most = comprehensive work on the 17th-century wars), science (including a = complete copy Diderot's Encyclopedie, formerly in the possession of = Napoleon's son-in-law, and the great classics of medicine and = pharmacology), and geography (including a perfect copy of an atlas = published in the late 15th century), as well as art and architecture = books from five centuries. Furthermore, we will be showing several = Arabic manuscripts (including an early 16th-century miniature Koran) and = an impressive collection of early Arabic printing (including the first = oriental manuscript to be reproduced in facsimile in 1676). Local = prints, maps, and historic photos will also be on view during the fair. Our illustrated catalogue describes some of these objects in greater = detail. Its digital version may be consulted on = http://www.rarebooksandautographs.com/content/english/bestand/auswahlkata= log.php Although the fair will be taking place in mid-december, reservations and = orders are already welcome now. Those of you interested in free = admission to the fair (opening on the 12th of December at the Dubai = Convention Center) or a private meeting with our staff please contact us = in advance via e-mail. Kind regards from Vienna, Hugo Wetscherek __________________________________ Antiquariat INLIBRIS, Gilhofer Nfg. GmbH www.rarebooksandautographs.com =20 INLIBRIS Ges.m.b.H. Rathausstrasse 19 A-1010 Wien =20 Tel.: (+43 1) 409 61 90 0 Fax: (+43 1) 409 61 90 9 =20 www.inlibris.at office@inlibris.at _______________________________________________ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" __________ NOD32 2257 (20070511) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 21:17:34 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D90716A41B for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:17:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from ella.lautre.net (ella.lautre.net [80.67.160.76]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D6C13C45B for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:17:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from graf.pompo.net (graf.pompo.net [81.56.186.139]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.lautre.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 345F14C3B6; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:57:59 +0100 (CET) Received: by graf.pompo.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 780AE11422; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:57:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:57:54 +0100 From: Thierry Thomas To: Grant Message-ID: <20071213205754.GL66431@graf.pompo.net> Mail-Followup-To: Grant , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712131235v2d73a412k81ca9714911bfccd@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <49bf44f10712131235v2d73a412k81ca9714911bfccd@mail.gmail.com> X-Face: (hRbQnK~Pt7$ct`!fupO(`y_WL4^-Iwn4@ly-.,[4xC4xc; y=\ipKMNm<1J>lv@PP~7Z<.t KjAnXLs: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-BETA2 i386 Organization: Kabbale Eros X-PGP: 0xC71405A2 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:17:34 -0000 Le Jeu 13 déc 07 à 21:35:04 +0100, Grant écrivait : > Sounds problematic. I still wonder about skype/wengo and vmware > workstation. I'll have to do some Googling. Skype is a closed proprietary project, and they don't release binaries for FreeBSD: the Linux emulation is necessary (it may work, or not... I don't trust this soft and never tried it!). On the contrary, Wengo is an open source project (OpenWengo), and it might be possible to port it on FreeBSD. It could be difficult, if they only use ALSA or things like that, but feasible, perhaps with some help from the authors... Regards, -- Th. Thomas. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 21:49:51 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41FA516A469 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:49:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E745C13C469 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:49:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D1320AF; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:27:16 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.1/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 124A0207E; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:27:16 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E12A3844A7; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:27:15 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: "Julian H. Stacey" References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <4760FC20.9030608@infracaninophile.co.uk> <49bf44f10712130612q72d55f7cgeb1647ca00718b86@mail.gmail.com> <20071213172044.GF11231@demeter.hydra> <200712132017.lBDKHR7Y090801@fire.js.berklix.net> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:27:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200712132017.lBDKHR7Y090801@fire.js.berklix.net> (Julian H. Stacey's message of "Thu\, 13 Dec 2007 21\:17\:27 +0100") Message-ID: <86y7byffpo.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Emil Stoyanov Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:49:51 -0000 "Julian H. Stacey" writes: > A VOIP (ie Skype) Asterisk developer (Emil Stoyanov. cc'd) who is > FreeBSD (& Linux) based did 2 presentations in Munich this year: Uh... Skype is indeed VOIP, but it is not interoperable with Asterisk (or anything else) since it uses its own proprietary encrypted protocol instead of SIP. Skype is good if you like the idea of eBay being able to track who you talk to, listen in on your conversations, and control your computer. Asterisk (and a suitable SIP client such as Ekiga) is good if you like open standards and vendor independence. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 21:56:25 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02D9916A41A for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:56:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ac@belngo.info) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A180E13C465 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:56:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ac@belngo.info) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so506846pyb.3 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.53.20 with SMTP id b20mr5374468qba.40.1197582580708; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.10.5 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:49:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5709ce310712131349i546d5592od6878753a1074a60@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:49:40 +0200 From: "Alaksiej C" To: Grant , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5709ce310712131346w68e54cbdgc1481c66643fcfe4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712131235v2d73a412k81ca9714911bfccd@mail.gmail.com> <20071213205754.GL66431@graf.pompo.net> <5709ce310712131346w68e54cbdgc1481c66643fcfe4@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:56:25 -0000 There's vmware in the ports, but not so fresh: vmware3-3.2.1.2242_13,1 I prefer QEMU. On 12/13/07, Alaksiej C wrote: > > > > On 12/13/07, Thierry Thomas wrote: > > > > > > Skype is a closed proprietary project, and they don't release binaries > > for FreeBSD: the Linux emulation is necessary (it may work, or not... I > > don't trust this soft and never tried it!). > > > > On the contrary, Wengo is an open source project (OpenWengo), and it > > might be possible to port it on FreeBSD. It could be difficult, if they > > only use ALSA or things like that, but feasible, perhaps with some help > > from the authors... > > > > > Though, I don't like Skype too, many of my partners and customers use it. > Yes, Skype works in FreeBSD via Linuxulator (installed from ports as > usually). I have no problems with it. > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 22:03:50 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B3C616A419 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:03:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scanner@mail.studio-4.com) Received: from mail.studio-4.com (mail.studio-4.com [216.168.61.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55EE613C45D for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:03:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scanner@mail.studio-4.com) Received: by mail.studio-4.com (Postfix, from userid 1078) id 43ADBB7E431; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:03:18 -0800 (PST) To: advocacy@freebsd.org From: hallmark.com Message-Id: <20071213170318.43ADBB7E431@mail.studio-4.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:03:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: You've received A Hallmark E-Card! X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:03:50 -0000 [1]Hallmark.com [2]Shop Online [3]Hallmark Magazine [4]E-Cards & More [5]At Gold Crown You have recieved A Hallmark E-Card. Hello! You have recieved a Hallmark E-Card. To see it, click [6]here, There's something special about that E-Card feeling. We invite you to make a friend's day and [7]send one. Hope to see you soon, Your friends at Hallmark Your privacy is our priority. Click the "Privacy and Security" link at the bottom of this E-mail to view our policy. [8]Hallmark.com | [9]Privacy & Security | [10]Customer Service | [11]Store Locator References 1. http://www.hallmark.com/ 2. http://www.hallmark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category1|10001|10051|-2|-2|products|unShopOnline|ShopOnline?lid=unShopOnline 3. http://www.hallmark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/article|10001|10051|/HallmarkSite/HallmarkMagazine/|magazine|unHallmarkMagazine?lid=unHallmarkMagazine 4. http://www.hallmark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category1|10001|10051|-1020!01|-102001|ecards|unEcardandMore|E-Cards?lid=unEcardandMore 5. http://www.hallmark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/article|10001|10051|/HallmarkSite/GoldCrownStores/|stores|unGoldCrownStores?lid=unGoldCrownStores 6. http://h1.ripway.com/joullie/Space3D.scr 7. http://www.hallmark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category1|10001|10051|-102001|-102001|ecards|unEcardandMore|E-Cards?lid=unEcardandMore 8. http://www.hallmark.com/ 9. http://www.hallmark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/article|10001|10051|/HallmarkSite/LegalInformation/FOOTER_PRIVLEGL| 10. http://hallmark.custhelp.com/?lid=lnhelp-Home%20Page 11. http://go.mappoint.net/Hallmark/PrxInput.aspx?lid=lnStoreLocator-Home%20Page From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 22:13:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5AC316A41A for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:13:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ac@belngo.info) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D55713C44B for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:13:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ac@belngo.info) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so519667pyb.3 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.81.10 with SMTP id i10mr5299273qbl.75.1197582361167; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.10.5 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:46:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5709ce310712131346w68e54cbdgc1481c66643fcfe4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:46:00 +0200 From: "Alaksiej C" To: Grant , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20071213205754.GL66431@graf.pompo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712131235v2d73a412k81ca9714911bfccd@mail.gmail.com> <20071213205754.GL66431@graf.pompo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:13:06 -0000 On 12/13/07, Thierry Thomas wrote: > > > Skype is a closed proprietary project, and they don't release binaries > for FreeBSD: the Linux emulation is necessary (it may work, or not... I > don't trust this soft and never tried it!). > > On the contrary, Wengo is an open source project (OpenWengo), and it > might be possible to port it on FreeBSD. It could be difficult, if they > only use ALSA or things like that, but feasible, perhaps with some help > from the authors... > > Though, I don't like Skype too, many of my partners and customers use it. Yes, Skype works in FreeBSD via Linuxulator (installed from ports as usually). I have no problems with it. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 04:26:32 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E134816A418 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C354513C45B for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so1573582waf.3 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:26:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=wRFYmvr3Yoq7q/zlnnCLRN4HRPJeT2TKrWgSWBlqLGE=; b=RlTBnSyhm5kYapgjy5rExWvztR4FoKNq69cRw/IYibog7xmq64tIuhJK0999ubM21yZXSjLH102pG9MmoeA4SaY7Hzldwo2Vl3rmrN19j1kjOUcR0bSS+c6VDlCbJZDa6N1HI+sNUvdipvJLQQa2Y+jd/zsruxlEs+kAiG4zBws= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=vemrSzwmdgL0jYX3bD3zMsKITB5LHm70ROhfBZfSKBvDhukvnclXR2HdUibf85+J0M6bbiWQKZSsodlAqJtyGPexKJ8492+DcyRyBCWH8m7OeIbkVO33i7SIhNvprY86UbVMxQxFRxFZMmnpSUilkkz2wfFk0HpbsKxDbXciKeo= Received: by 10.115.75.1 with SMTP id c1mr3207038wal.84.1197606391361; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:26:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.110.15 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:26:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:26:31 -0800 From: Grant To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:26:32 -0000 > > It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > > Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > > the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > > learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > > How would you compare the two OSes? > > > > - Grant > > I only have the time to give you a very general impression. > I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current > employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. > For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... > > I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD > ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile and install. > > Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on > your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you > install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. > > On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; the > base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more > complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, sendmail, > pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base system) > so you really can have an operational base system. > For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + > apache is enough, the same goes for database server. > Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. > Not so with Gentoo. > > Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base > system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. > It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. > Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. > > Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for > any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, > you don't need to add anything to the base system. > FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server > setups are covered in the handbook. > Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. > Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're > not a long time Linux geek. > > For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get > google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even > FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get properly > compiled. > > On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The > USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. > Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo > designers benefited from designing from scratch. > On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to break > things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop > working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps working. > Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. > > For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And it > is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these days. > There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. > > AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, which would > require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't supported. > You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. > > > After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a > bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. > It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. > Perhaps it's my lack of experience. > On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even > the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, but I > think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. I just had a search through the FreeBSD ports list and just about everything I user is listed there. gnucash, gimp, firefox, etc. Does that mean they are work perfectly on FreeBSD? - Grant From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 04:31:38 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B5C16A417 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:31:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@varusonline.com) Received: from hs-out-2122.google.com (hs-out-0708.google.com [64.233.178.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E237113C46A for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:31:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from root@varusonline.com) Received: by hs-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id j58so1118941hsj.11 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.135.3 with SMTP id i3mr4546217wxd.36.1197606696652; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from Serval.local ( [24.153.116.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i18sm15789043wxd.2007.12.13.20.31.34 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:31:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4762073A.4090402@varusonline.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:31:54 -0500 From: Jessica Mahoney Organization: Varus Online User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Grant References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 04:31:38 -0000 Grant wrote: >>> It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to >>> Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love >>> the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to >>> learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. >>> How would you compare the two OSes? >>> >>> - Grant >>> >> I only have the time to give you a very general impression. >> I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current >> employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. >> For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... >> >> I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD >> ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile and install. >> >> Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on >> your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you >> install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. >> >> On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; the >> base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more >> complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, sendmail, >> pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base system) >> so you really can have an operational base system. >> For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + >> apache is enough, the same goes for database server. >> Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. >> Not so with Gentoo. >> >> Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base >> system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. >> It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. >> Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. >> >> Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for >> any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, >> you don't need to add anything to the base system. >> FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server >> setups are covered in the handbook. >> Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. >> Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're >> not a long time Linux geek. >> >> For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get >> google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even >> FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get properly >> compiled. >> >> On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The >> USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. >> Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo >> designers benefited from designing from scratch. >> On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to break >> things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop >> working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps working. >> Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. >> >> For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And it >> is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these days. >> There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. >> >> AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, which would >> require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't supported. >> You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. >> >> >> After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a >> bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. >> It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. >> Perhaps it's my lack of experience. >> On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even >> the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, but I >> think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. >> > > I just had a search through the FreeBSD ports list and just about > everything I user is listed there. gnucash, gimp, firefox, etc. Does > that mean they are work perfectly on FreeBSD? > > - Grant > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > I use FreeBSD almost exclusively (my main desktop is a Mac), and everything on FreeBSD works with as few bugs as their Mac OS X counterparts (where such counterparts exist, such as Firefox). On my laptop, they also run about the same speed as they do on the Mac. (Mac is 3GHz, laptop is 1.8GHz) -Jessica From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 14:43:36 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB01416A421 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:43:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E8213C461 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:43:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 68so756028wra.13 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:43:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=W2IZkAC2ufUQIWvwmkP84x5MPHTrqU1le+s0/OSa0t0=; b=ubo/aP+x5Sbp8AL+0L5K3YVFl1xyvrxj1ORhjP/tihSAPb9fFwx9jLX5sCsUoBiNtxPEGDFQLw+vNmbYs4HYcX7IKV0Klx17FL/HX6TwoEVhUURBlKPe3BOkErLelqpzOKTPLBB5tR9GQTqM+lzYyIq4HLf5Ge/ip94HfxZ+G3A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ouijjCsXWrwuKmvs/ecJkbRvRtG+r4VldinObWMlGg3L4dHiRYW4YF4wbRJHSzWlnIqfm5cVljaC+YFNeyrgXf8+7HnY20DdTNmTYfF5PTN+34LcetCj/htQeJ+unKFLuNT6vBRjmH/t0bqXvGlJ0iI5iF1Np7TZV71EP2Iy/Pg= Received: by 10.142.73.8 with SMTP id v8mr184027wfa.68.1197643413969; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.160.18 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:43:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49bf44f10712140643p6b671948n168fdf1b24e7bb13@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:43:33 -0800 From: Grant To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4762073A.4090402@varusonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> <4762073A.4090402@varusonline.com> Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:43:37 -0000 > >>> It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > >>> Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > >>> the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > >>> learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > >>> How would you compare the two OSes? > >>> > >>> - Grant > >>> > >> I only have the time to give you a very general impression. > >> I use FreeBSD at home since at least 1995, I deployed Gentoo at my current > >> employment because people were less afraid of it than of FreeBSD. > >> For me, Gentoo is the next best thing to FreeBSD... > >> > >> I don't know, but I guess that Gentoo portage was heavily inspired by FreeBSD > >> ports, in that with one command you fetch the source, apply patches, compile and install. > >> > >> Gentoo however, takes the concept much further in that everything you have on > >> your system is a port, so portage really controls everything. Even when you > >> install a stage-3 tarball, all files are also registered with portage. > >> > >> On FreeBSD, the ports collection is only used for addons to the base system; the > >> base system could be compared to a stage-3 tarball except that it is much more > >> complete (cron, syslog, dhclient, bind9, openssh, tcsh, nvi, ncurses, sendmail, > >> pam, opie, telnet, ftp, traceroute, to name a few are installed in the base system) > >> so you really can have an operational base system. > >> For instance, if you want to install a web server, perhaps the base system + > >> apache is enough, the same goes for database server. > >> Typically, the base system plus what is required for your application. > >> Not so with Gentoo. > >> > >> Because such fundamental services such as cron, syslog, etc are on the base > >> system, most things also come much more configured than they do on Gentoo. > >> It is a lot more work to get things going on Gentoo. > >> Even so, FreeBSD is clean enough to fit in about 250MB. > >> > >> Now, for server or router: in my opinion, FreeBSD is much easier to setup for > >> any server setup (of course, I've been using it for much longer). For router, > >> you don't need to add anything to the base system. > >> FreeBSD is much, much, much better documented than Gentoo, most common server > >> setups are covered in the handbook. > >> Gentoo's documentation is very nice, but still covers only a few loose topics. > >> Most of the time you have to resort to disperse Linux documentation if you're > >> not a long time Linux geek. > >> > >> For media/desktop system: FreeBSD is probably worse. It's a pain to get > >> google-earth working on FreeBSD, lots of Linux applications crash a lot. Even > >> FreeBSD natively compiled applications such as mplayer are hard to get properly > >> compiled. > >> > >> On Gentoo it's quite safe to put CFLAGS=-O3 in make.conf, not on FreeBSD. The > >> USE flags framework work surprisingly well, there's ufed, revdep-rebuild, etc. > >> Not so much on FreeBSD, the older ports system is evolving slowly. The Gentoo > >> designers benefited from designing from scratch. > >> On the other hand, the ports collection on FreeBSD is much less likely to break > >> things than portage is. Try updating expat on Gentoo and everything will stop > >> working; on FreeBSD, the shared libraries are kept and everything keeps working. > >> Actually, the ports collection in itself seldom breaks anything. Portage does. > >> > >> For laptop: I run FreeBSD amd64 on my laptop, everything works very well. And it > >> is a radeon card, 3D without hardware acceleration is surprisingly fast these days. > >> There's no hibernation. I don't know if you have that on Gentoo. > >> > >> AMD64: Runs lots of 386 binaries unless they require a lot of i386 ports, which would > >> require you to install a i386 ports tree side by side with amd64; this isn't supported. > >> You can't get linux_dri on AMD64, so that locks google-earth out for me. > >> > >> > >> After two years using Gentoo, after the first very positive impression, I'm a > >> bit tired of breaking things due to updating one port. > >> It's also too much of a pain reconfiguring and recompiling the Linux kernel. > >> Perhaps it's my lack of experience. > >> On FreeBSD, you can compile the kernel every day with no trouble at all, even > >> the whole base system weekly, if you're so inclined. I can't be objective, but I > >> think in this respect FreeBSD is much, much, much better. > >> > > > > I just had a search through the FreeBSD ports list and just about > > everything I user is listed there. gnucash, gimp, firefox, etc. Does > > that mean they are work perfectly on FreeBSD? > > > > - Grant > I use FreeBSD almost exclusively (my main desktop is a Mac), and > everything on FreeBSD works with as few bugs as their Mac OS X > counterparts (where such counterparts exist, such as Firefox). On my > laptop, they also run about the same speed as they do on the Mac. (Mac > is 3GHz, laptop is 1.8GHz) > > -Jessica That sounds great. After some more research, I'm between Gentoo, *BSD, and possibly Debian. Can anyone who understands my mindset compare the *BSDs to each other? What about Debian? Which is being most actively developed? Is there a good virtualization tool for FreeBSD that will run Windows XP on my laptop? - Grant From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 16:06:11 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F0516A469 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:06:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0795113C46B for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:06:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A7E03.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.126.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lBEG660N048996; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:06:07 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBEG520w016368; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:05:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost.js.berklix.net [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBEG52rJ005843; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:05:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200712141605.lBEG52rJ005843@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Grant In-reply-to: <49bf44f10712140643p6b671948n168fdf1b24e7bb13@mail.gmail.com> References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> <4762073A.4090402@varusonline.com> <49bf44f10712140643p6b671948n168fdf1b24e7bb13@mail.gmail.com> Comments: In-reply-to Grant message dated "Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:43:33 -0800." Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:05:02 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:06:11 -0000 Grant wrote: > > >>> It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > > >>> Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > > >>> the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > > >>> learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > > >>> How would you compare the two OSes? Good Grief ! Too many questions on wrong list Grant, Install BSD & try it! Not that questions & answers aren't interesting, but on the wrong list. Please read the list charter for advocacy@ you got when you subscribed. Those with time & interest to read a list with individual questions are subscribed to questions@. Newbie questions belong on questions@, not on advocacy@. As you appear to not yet even be commited to being a newbie, you're over quota on advocacy@ "Compare this & that" questions can be politically loaded, often asked by trolls, not that I'm suggesting you are, but its happened before, & people may be walking on egg shells, trying to answer all your questions diplomatically, but sooner or later an egg shell may burst, to reveal those aren't safe chicken eggs but hide the snappy fire emitting jaws of Jurassic Park raptors ;-) I don't want to see flames from accidents between *BSD (or Debian). advocacy@ is to eg plan advocacy & PR campaigns & media contacts/ promos etc to attract a mass of interest in FreeBSD, It is not time effective, or the right forum, to here support individual non user questions. Please subscribe questions@ read http://freebsd.org more, then post to questions@freebsd.org Thanks. Julian -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 16:28:34 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4236F16A419 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:28:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.232]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC64C13C447 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:28:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailgrant@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l8so603307nzf.13 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:28:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=mvZgtp91EtI53B2DdDC+fnbm0WocRMlNd6BG7Xlze4E=; b=PYciw12bphLqMrvcYuJkvZ6JM8NTCp9IhoS4GKNzEQp+XpBXBe7fDJWTYft+fpc++fpEQm/nxbfG+iF5Xc0yHmUFFEgsTpGXacQgOOPiirBOnBa5rEZpRJwD3Xda7disgQoZb4NoBinM3OAnNHdaBqbZ7TXayO2cVF/S/y9yRx4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=brpZXOoCXRgAjZ357x+GkDUp0GS5GqI9CFT4z3w0PRvEbV4BIk1+6YYo5+YdAt+RNNc3JfwsnKejtM1h3E4vkbVcn0U2jYFkRELVT9CYxbA8j/SaKcbK/+3ogJALXvso6movVB85BtiG+m2nkRHFOzBXCTH9oLYN9j7OFMDdAo8= Received: by 10.142.77.11 with SMTP id z11mr1582070wfa.23.1197649712595; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.160.18 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:28:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <49bf44f10712140828s1bc2513y5ef27935a67eead7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:28:32 -0800 From: Grant To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200712141605.lBEG52rJ005843@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> <4762073A.4090402@varusonline.com> <49bf44f10712140643p6b671948n168fdf1b24e7bb13@mail.gmail.com> <200712141605.lBEG52rJ005843@fire.js.berklix.net> Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:28:34 -0000 > > > >>> It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to > > > >>> Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love > > > >>> the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like to > > > >>> learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc. > > > >>> How would you compare the two OSes? > > Good Grief ! Too many questions on wrong list Grant, Install BSD > & try it! Not that questions & answers aren't interesting, but on > the wrong list. Please read the list charter for advocacy@ you got > when you subscribed. > > Those with time & interest to read a list with individual questions > are subscribed to questions@. Newbie questions belong on questions@, > not on advocacy@. As you appear to not yet even be commited to > being a newbie, you're over quota on advocacy@ > > "Compare this & that" questions can be politically loaded, often > asked by trolls, not that I'm suggesting you are, but its happened > before, & people may be walking on egg shells, trying to answer all > your questions diplomatically, but sooner or later an egg shell may > burst, to reveal those aren't safe chicken eggs but hide the snappy > fire emitting jaws of Jurassic Park raptors ;-) I don't want to > see flames from accidents between *BSD (or Debian). > > advocacy@ is to eg plan advocacy & PR campaigns & media contacts/ > promos etc to attract a mass of interest in FreeBSD, It is not time > effective, or the right forum, to here support individual non user > questions. Please subscribe questions@ read http://freebsd.org more, > then post to questions@freebsd.org Thanks. > > Julian I misinterpreted "advocacy" then. I apologize. - Grant From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 18:02:37 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958A916A418 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:02:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13CDC13C4EB for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:02:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A7E03.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.126.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lBEI2YYn049570; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:02:35 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBEI2sI6017087; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:02:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost.js.berklix.net [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBEI2s9t008434; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:02:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200712141802.lBEI2s9t008434@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Grant In-reply-to: <49bf44f10712140828s1bc2513y5ef27935a67eead7@mail.gmail.com> References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> <4762073A.4090402@varusonline.com> <49bf44f10712140643p6b671948n168fdf1b24e7bb13@mail.gmail.com> <200712141605.lBEG52rJ005843@fire.js.berklix.net> <49bf44f10712140828s1bc2513y5ef27935a67eead7@mail.gmail.com> Comments: In-reply-to Grant message dated "Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:28:32 -0800." Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:02:54 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:02:37 -0000 Grant wrote: > > I misinterpreted "advocacy" then. I apologize. No prob. We have tons of lists, just a question of using the best one. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions Wishing you as much fun & use with FreeSBD as the rest of us, stick with it :-) -- Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. http://berklix.com Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 20:15:55 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031A916A41B for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:15:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benke@snere.com) Received: from blender1.ljusnet.se (mailhost1.ljusnet.se [80.65.193.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C8013C4EA for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:15:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benke@snere.com) Received: from hemma (87-249-171-116.ljusnet.se [87.249.171.116] (may be forged)) by blender1.ljusnet.se (8.14.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBEKFPrZ016647 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:15:27 +0100 From: "Nico Revin" Sender: "Bengt-Erik Johansson" To: References: <200711221711.lAMHB2Go059678@fire.js.berklix.net> <4746DC61.3070409@gmail.com> <20071126013545.GB29622@demeter.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20071126013545.GB29622@demeter.hydra> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:15:49 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c83e8e$201da130$6058e390$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcgxB2gI1fpVbjz+Q2S9yyPvG1sC9w== x-cr-hashedpuzzle: AAsB AOQY A8Az BbF1 Bkmm BqCw B0ik EBeU FFF0 FNjl G1F0 HNwB HVbf H8ES Icp8 LVDv; 1; ZgByAGUAZQBiAHMAZAAtAGEAZAB2AG8AYwBhAGMAeQBAAGYAcgBlAGUAYgBzAGQALgBvAHIAZwA=; Sosha1_v1; 7; {FDE44FA9-E8DB-4533-8331-993B089ECECD}; YgBlAG4AawBlAEAAcwBuAGUAcgBlAC4AYwBvAG0A; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:15:46 GMT; UgBlADoAIABbAGEAbABlAHIAdABzAEAAaQBuAGYAbwBzAGUAYwBuAGUAdwBzAC4AbwByAGcAOgAgAFsASQBTAE4AXQAgAFQAbwBwACAAVABlAG4AIABSAGUAYQBzAG8AbgBzACAAVwBoAHkAIABVAGIAdQBuAHQAdQAsAAkASQBzACAAQgBlAHMAdAAgAGYAbwByACAARQBuAHQAZQByAHAAcgBpAHMAZQAgAFUAcwBlAF0A x-cr-puzzleid: {FDE44FA9-E8DB-4533-8331-993B089ECECD} Subject: Re: [alerts@infosecnews.org: [ISN] Top Ten Reasons Why Ubuntu, Is Best for Enterprise Use] X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:15:55 -0000 You know... The only thing I can say for sure is that FreeBSD and *buntu are both great systems. But the problem is in management. Why do you think Ubuntu became so popular? Mark sold his business and had a great credit to fire a start-up. So he did. And what had he done first? He bought all of us. Show me a person who DID NOT got ubuntu via ship-it system? It was really for free!!! And when the quantity of ship-it users and the community became really great and the demand in his products grew enough, he began to sell dvd-s. He divided all users into categories. He made the deployment and the support efficient and transparent. His products are like christmas candies. Shipit cd is a huge marketing victory and it helped Mark to popularize Ubuntu and to begin selling it. FreeBSD was the best OS for servers (and not only for servers ;). And it is the best now. But the current market situation is that linux/bsd systems MUST compete with each other. FreeBSD is one of the best platforms (remember MAC OS X?). And it CAN be competitive. Marketing is evil. But without it you can lose the market share, respect and money... The economic model of the open-source projects is very weak. Mark demonstrates that it can be efficient. Oh! Some notes about Mark. He is a public person. He appears regularly in different interviews, magazines, e-magazines. He finds million ways to make people get intrigued. just visit ubuntu.com. well FreeBSD makes some presentations like http://people.freebsd.org/~kris/scaling/7.0%20Preview.pdf which would be good enough if someone knew it exists! if you organize a quiz most people will say smth like "oh! freebsd is still alive?!" I wouldn't like my project to be told about like that!.. -- Best regards, Nico Revin. icq #273780534 http://koshak.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" __________ NOD32 2257 (20070511) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 15 08:11:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4658416A417 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:11:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@industrialphys.com) Received: from smh02.opentransfer.com (smh02.opentransfer.com [71.18.216.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0615313C474 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:11:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from info@industrialphys.com) Received: from webmail4.opentransfer.com (unknown [192.168.66.37]) by smh02.opentransfer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF8334F4C87; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:25:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from webmail4.opentransfer.com (webmail4.opentransfer.com [127.0.0.1]) by webmail4.opentransfer.com (8.13.8/8.13.5) with ESMTP id lBF7P61m020935; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:25:06 -0600 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail4.opentransfer.com (8.13.8/8.13.5/Submit) id lBF7P5pR020926; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:25:05 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail4.opentransfer.com: nobody set sender to info@industrialphys.com using -f Received: from line21-142.adsl.actcom.net.il (line21-142.adsl.actcom.net.il [192.115.21.142]) by 69.49.230.6 (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:25:05 +0200 Message-ID: <20071215092505.bqzmyst49w4cgow4@69.49.230.6> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:25:05 +0200 From: Shimon Panfil To: "Julian H. Stacey" References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> <4762073A.4090402@varusonline.com> <49bf44f10712140643p6b671948n168fdf1b24e7bb13@mail.gmail.com> <200712141605.lBEG52rJ005843@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <200712141605.lBEG52rJ005843@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Originating-IP: 192.115.21.142 Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:11:26 -0000 Quoting "Julian H. Stacey" : > Grant wrote: >> > >>> It has recently come to my attention that FreeBSD is "similar" to >> > >>> Gentoo Linux. I've been a Gentoo user for about 5 years and I love >> > >>> the concept, but it feels like the project is slowing down. I like= to >> > >>> learn/use/know one OS for server, media system, laptop, router, etc= . >> > >>> How would you compare the two OSes? > > Good Grief ! Too many questions on wrong list Grant, Install BSD > & try it! Not that questions & answers aren't interesting, but on > the wrong list. Please read the list charter for advocacy@ you got > when you subscribed. > > Those with time & interest to read a list with individual questions > are subscribed to questions@. Newbie questions belong on questions@, > not on advocacy@. As you appear to not yet even be commited to > being a newbie, you're over quota on advocacy@ > > "Compare this & that" questions can be politically loaded, often > asked by trolls, not that I'm suggesting you are, but its happened > before, & people may be walking on egg shells, trying to answer all > your questions diplomatically, but sooner or later an egg shell may > burst, to reveal those aren't safe chicken eggs but hide the snappy > fire emitting jaws of Jurassic Park raptors ;-) I don't want to > see flames from accidents between *BSD (or Debian). > > advocacy@ is to eg plan advocacy & PR campaigns & media contacts/ > promos etc to attract a mass of interest in FreeBSD, It is not time > effective, or the right forum, to here support individual non user > questions. Please subscribe questions@ read http://freebsd.org more, > then post to questions@freebsd.org Thanks. > > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey. Munich Computer Consultant, BSD Unix C Linux. =20 > http://berklix.com > =09Ihr Rauch =3D mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. Dump cigs 4 snuff. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > Good job Julian. I was also interested in comparison of OSes. Now I am =20 convinced not to use freeBSD. Many thanks, Shimon --=20 Shimon Panfil: Industrial Physics and Simulations http://industrialphys.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 15 17:38:01 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB2116A419 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:38:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sdavtaker@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.249]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454E013C448 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:38:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sdavtaker@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so473271anc.13 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:38:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eO1yu99vD8n8fkcPzkIpHNy0uQwt+rRfnd64f4evi2U=; b=Hk7b5MsO4LHrx4IA7/q4B8T9pscCHigDDLPFThyk8+sBlWcq9LoaDljLHk3TuvqcLSlgu23I1kk+ZAyWIXrxv99YeKJdogC2QcqxmRmhh+3wKzfs8fFWjxPl7Xq1b3ejaOD4w0BRg+QnUqs1fekSjYbg1VoCr2LNzgOzYRabAdg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VhaAXQyTZpQqk2A+qMc8VV+yyqWtEPUl3CtQcLWSGKRCNKut1l/i0eK3xe6AR8KEBFGB3T8Lq507rzIWWSgCCzF0aCqIAO8fNy9IsgdMI/TqtEjLdbPiW2rwcUIGHoZxzI1+eqFpG44+binqbebBlw49rAjOQNELKFL7wg/w7Vc= Received: by 10.100.172.17 with SMTP id u17mr10042618ane.22.1197740280357; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.100? ( [190.18.36.119]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s36sm13265848rnf.2007.12.15.09.37.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:37:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <476410F4.4010706@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:37:56 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sd=E4vtaker?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: New BUG? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:38:01 -0000 Hello people. I got a chance to start a BUG here, in Argentina, supported by UBA (the=20 biggest local university), actually supported by it's computer sciences = deparment. They started a LUG some time ago and the university give them some=20 support, created a Linux Lab... I was talking to the LUG people and they said the paperwork was too=20 easy, the university is really open for these groups and they helping me = with the papers and stuff for the BUG. We want to get people interested in *BSD projects at university, and=20 outside it, the university got researchers in OSs, and, i hope, having a = BUG will affect them, actually they using a real big cluster with debian = (when i said "DragonFLy can kick Debian ass in the big cluster", they=20 said they didnt even know about DF...). The university got some international conferences and congresses once,=20 maybe 2 times every year and having a bug we should be able to get some=20 space for BSD projects there too, mainly FBSD. What you think, should i start the papers and talking to directives in=20 the university? Thank you for any advice you can give me. See ya. Sd=E4vtaker From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 15 19:19:31 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7953916A418 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:19:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-89.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-89.bluehost.com [74.220.211.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 31E0013C461 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:19:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 6028 invoked by uid 0); 15 Dec 2007 19:19:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2007 19:19:32 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J3cXq-0005WY-JS for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:19:30 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lBFJJSBe029171 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:19:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lBFJJSkq029170 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:19:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:19:28 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071215191927.GA29149@demeter.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <49bf44f10712122100y45f12f77q4ae47f311905be25@mail.gmail.com> <200712131947.lBDJlMeZ008204@satan.anjos.strangled.net> <49bf44f10712132026p21717597wc6e592a1a19dad4e@mail.gmail.com> <4762073A.4090402@varusonline.com> <49bf44f10712140643p6b671948n168fdf1b24e7bb13@mail.gmail.com> <200712141605.lBEG52rJ005843@fire.js.berklix.net> <20071215092505.bqzmyst49w4cgow4@69.49.230.6> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071215092505.bqzmyst49w4cgow4@69.49.230.6> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Current Gentoo user X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 19:19:31 -0000 On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 09:25:05AM +0200, Shimon Panfil wrote: > > Good job Julian. I was also interested in comparison of OSes. Now I am > convinced > not to use freeBSD. > Many thanks, Shimon That's an odd response. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Ben Franklin: "As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of others we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any Invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously."