From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 01:05:42 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C452116A400 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 01:05:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-arch@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A0E13C45A for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 01:05:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-arch@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Hn1zP-0002wv-Eo for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 02:31:08 +0200 Received: from 89-172-56-80.adsl.net.t-com.hr ([89.172.56.80]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 02:31:07 +0200 Received: from ivoras by 89-172-56-80.adsl.net.t-com.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 02:31:07 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 02:30:29 +0200 Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig8CAA100B4410716DCDA565C0" X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 89-172-56-80.adsl.net.t-com.hr User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) In-Reply-To: <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.3.0 Sender: news Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 01:05:42 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig8CAA100B4410716DCDA565C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org>, Alfred Perlstein writ= es: >> I like how phk malloc has it as an option. >=20 > But notice that it is not an option for programs that runs as root > or setuid/setgid etc. >=20 > Given the hostility of networks, I would support a more hardcore > attitude to memory mismanagement these days. Just a data point: many people were turned away from FreeBSD because a few PHP releases did a double-free or malloc-inside-signal-handler calls. Yes, GNU's malloc should have been stricter, but it's not funny when your apache crashes with SIGABORT. --------------enig8CAA100B4410716DCDA565C0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGRlwlldnAQVacBcgRAvNFAJ0dSuDCSHm61kBvQypB0//vOhcfmACeMfcl sRoOAU8+BhMlzlWvCkV3obs= =G/ee -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig8CAA100B4410716DCDA565C0-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 09:29:42 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5171616A403 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 09:29:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjoe@neo.samodelkin.net) Received: from neo.samodelkin.net (samodelkin.net [195.62.0.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03ED813C44C for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 09:29:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjoe@neo.samodelkin.net) Received: by neo.samodelkin.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A145D171F7; Sun, 13 May 2007 16:09:13 +0700 (NOVST) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 16:09:13 +0700 From: Max Khon To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20070513090913.GA70647@samodelkin.net> References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:29:42 -0000 Hi! On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 02:30:29AM +0200, Ivan Voras wrote: > >> I like how phk malloc has it as an option. > > > > But notice that it is not an option for programs that runs as root > > or setuid/setgid etc. > > > > Given the hostility of networks, I would support a more hardcore > > attitude to memory mismanagement these days. > > Just a data point: many people were turned away from FreeBSD because a > few PHP releases did a double-free or malloc-inside-signal-handler > calls. Yes, GNU's malloc should have been stricter, but it's not funny > when your apache crashes with SIGABORT. That's not a valid argument. PHP developers hate apache2 and threads. So what? /fjoe From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 10:13:43 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5CA516A400 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 10:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-arch@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DF6713C45D for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 10:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-arch@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HnB57-0005LR-4v for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:13:37 +0200 Received: from 78-1-75-203.adsl.net.t-com.hr ([78.1.75.203]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:13:37 +0200 Received: from ivoras by 78-1-75-203.adsl.net.t-com.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:13:37 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:13:18 +0200 Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513090913.GA70647@samodelkin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig4620C3B6F6DE5BB5E8787EBB" X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 78-1-75-203.adsl.net.t-com.hr User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) In-Reply-To: <20070513090913.GA70647@samodelkin.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.3.0 Sender: news Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 10:13:44 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig4620C3B6F6DE5BB5E8787EBB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Max Khon wrote: > Hi! >=20 > On Sun, May 13, 2007 at 02:30:29AM +0200, Ivan Voras wrote: >> Just a data point: many people were turned away from FreeBSD because a= >> few PHP releases did a double-free or malloc-inside-signal-handler >> calls. Yes, GNU's malloc should have been stricter, but it's not funny= >> when your apache crashes with SIGABORT. >=20 > That's not a valid argument. PHP developers hate apache2 and threads. S= o what? It's not a technically important argument, but nowadays if PHP doesn't work on FreeBSD, it's considered to be FreeBSD's fault... (the "millions of flies can't be wrong" argument). (Just saying that it's not very useful to be overly strict). --------------enig4620C3B6F6DE5BB5E8787EBB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGRuTEldnAQVacBcgRAv76AJsEZAqmFg+FddoJFy7h4s5EVyjQWQCg8Gpx BEXsbA3d79OkRMLVRH+5Kn0= =/N9R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig4620C3B6F6DE5BB5E8787EBB-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 11:42:21 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17A4416A407 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 11:42:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailout2.pacific.net.au (mailout2-3.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF83D13C448 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 11:42:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailproxy1.pacific.net.au (mailproxy1.pacific.net.au [61.8.2.162]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id F013B119001; Sun, 13 May 2007 21:42:11 +1000 (EST) Received: from besplex.bde.org (katana.zip.com.au [61.8.7.246]) by mailproxy1.pacific.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A648C04; Sun, 13 May 2007 21:42:18 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:42:18 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@besplex.bde.org To: "Sean C. Farley" In-Reply-To: <20070512170535.A7595@thor.farley.org> Message-ID: <20070513212509.Y70611@besplex.bde.org> References: <20070504213312.GA33163@nagual.pp.ru> <20070504174657.D1343@thor.farley.org> <20070505213202.GA49925@nagual.pp.ru> <20070505163707.J6670@thor.farley.org> <20070505221125.GA50439@nagual.pp.ru> <20070506091835.A43775@besplex.bde.org> <20070508162458.G6015@baba.farley.org> <20070508222521.GA59534@nagual.pp.ru> <20070509200000.B56490@besplex.bde.org> <20070510184447.H4969@baba.farley.org> <20070511083502.GJ54713@elvis.mu.org> <20070511181141.P9004@baba.farley.org> <20070512170748.msq4hriby804skcg@webmail.leidinger.net> <20070512170535.A7595@thor.farley.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Alexander Leidinger , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:42:21 -0000 On Sat, 12 May 2007, Sean C. Farley wrote: > On Sat, 12 May 2007, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > >> Quoting "Sean C. Farley" (from Fri, 11 May 2007 >> 18:21:09 -0500 (CDT)): >> >>> It seems that __attribute__((pure)) is not supported by the Intel >>> compiler. Would my strlen() be of any use when libc is compiled with >>> it? >> >> That's one reason we have cdefs.h, so you can use appropriate macros >> instead of using __attribute__((foo)) directly. > > Actually, what I meant was that strlen() has the pure attribute via > __pure, and cdefs.h shows that the Intel compiler is not able to make > use of it. cdefs.h really shouldn't have __pure. __pure was __pure2 in FreeBSD-1/gcc-1. __pure2 exists because the the syntax for it is incompatible with the syntax for the FreeBSD-1 __pure, not because it is purer than gcc's pure = the FreeBSD_current __pure. The syntax is incompatible because gcc-1 didn't have __attribute__(()). gcc-1 and most of gcc-2 also didn't have `pure' to cause confusion with FreeBSD's __pure*. Bruce From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 12:38:35 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B71216A403 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:38:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D39C13C44C for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:38:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2FE20A6; Sun, 13 May 2007 14:38:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371012088; Sun, 13 May 2007 14:38:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0750F556C; Sun, 13 May 2007 14:38:30 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) To: Ivan Voras References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 14:38:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Ivan Voras's message of "Sun\, 13 May 2007 02\:30\:29 +0200") Message-ID: <86hcqg2915.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:38:35 -0000 Ivan Voras writes: > Just a data point: many people were turned away from FreeBSD because a > few PHP releases did a double-free or malloc-inside-signal-handler > calls. Yes, GNU's malloc should have been stricter, but it's not funny > when your apache crashes with SIGABORT. free() / malloc() should never, ever be called inside signal handlers. One more reason to avoid PHP like the plague. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 21:49:22 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7150016A405 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 21:49:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (gate.funkthat.com [69.17.45.168]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE14313C448 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 21:49:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (alk0r90ml1b1okxm@localhost.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4DLIEjm065078; Sun, 13 May 2007 14:18:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.13.6/8.13.3/Submit) id l4DLIDhm065077; Sun, 13 May 2007 14:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 14:18:13 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20070513211813.GW17958@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Ivan Voras , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513090913.GA70647@samodelkin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p6 i386 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:49:22 -0000 Ivan Voras wrote this message on Sun, May 13, 2007 at 12:13 +0200: > (Just saying that it's not very useful to be overly strict). Better than crashing w/o diagnostics and people blaming FreeBSD for being unstable... (since the exact same code works w/o troubles on...) -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 22:19:01 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1187A16A40F for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 22:19:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0394D13C487 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 22:19:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 898981A3C1A; Sun, 13 May 2007 14:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 14:54:42 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:19:01 -0000 * Ivan Voras [070512 18:06] wrote: > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org>, Alfred Perlstein writes: > > >> I like how phk malloc has it as an option. > > > > But notice that it is not an option for programs that runs as root > > or setuid/setgid etc. > > > > Given the hostility of networks, I would support a more hardcore > > attitude to memory mismanagement these days. > > Just a data point: many people were turned away from FreeBSD because a > few PHP releases did a double-free or malloc-inside-signal-handler > calls. Yes, GNU's malloc should have been stricter, but it's not funny > when your apache crashes with SIGABORT. Let's clear the issue here... FreeBSD did not have a choice in the matter. FreeBSD normally just emits a warning to stderr and does not crash your program UNLESS your errant freeing screws things up so badly that it can't help but crash... to strike a balance between diagnostics and speed certain things have to be trusted to the consumer application to avoid crashes. Normally you'd see a diagnostic along the lines of "freeing junk pointer" or something. However it can't fix all really stupid bugs and sometimes will crash. We can't be "bug for bug tolerant" with Linnex without copying their allocator. And since our allocator is vastly superior we'd be hurting all the applications that are coded correctly by doing so, along with polluting our code base with badly licensed software. -- - Alfred Perlstein From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 22:32:40 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77D5016A4E8 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 22:32:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from ls405.t-com.hr (ls405.t-com.hr [195.29.150.135]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0303513C469 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 22:32:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from ls248.t-com.hr (ls248.t-com.hr [195.29.150.237]) by ls405.t-com.hr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C896B143FA9; Mon, 14 May 2007 00:09:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ls248.t-com.hr (ls248.t-com.hr [127.0.0.1]) by ls248.t-com.hr (Qmlai) with ESMTP id C5E72D50058; Mon, 14 May 2007 00:09:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ls248.t-com.hr (ls248.t-com.hr [127.0.0.1]) by ls248.t-com.hr (Qmlai) with ESMTP id AB5B0D5004A; Mon, 14 May 2007 00:09:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Envelope-Sender-Info: g5URFa92gX9K/Rg9VFA/rAl+cNvCKJBJAbKY1Urjd886StkSH1j7CT0zJW9WjWDV X-Envelope-Sender: ivoras@fer.hr Received: from [10.0.0.100] (78-1-78-250.adsl.net.t-com.hr [78.1.78.250]) by ls248.t-com.hr (Qmali) with ESMTP id 5B15B5E00EC; Mon, 14 May 2007 00:09:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 00:09:30 +0200 From: Ivan Voras User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> In-Reply-To: <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.3.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigC64C28F94A354F261EECD2E5" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:32:40 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigC64C28F94A354F261EECD2E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Let's clear the issue here... FreeBSD did not have a choice in the > matter. Actually it did. The SIGABORT codepath was only executed in case the process is running under uid=3D0, in other cases it would just print out the warning. I think behaviour such as this is a violation of POLA as the behaviour is different depending on which users runs it (and if the allocator can clearly handle the situation for nonprivileged users, it can also handle it for root, but instead chose to be annoying). > We can't be "bug for bug tolerant" with Linnex without copying > their allocator. =20 No, but we can with the documented parts, and malloc-inside-signal-handler support is documented (http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/old/texinfo/glibc-manual-0.02/library_toc.ht= ml#SEC357). Even if it's forbidden by POSIX or other standards, FreeBSD isn't popular enough to be one of the systems that don't support it. (This being said, since I'm not going to create a malloc implementation any time soon, it of course depends on the particular author what will or will not be supported :) ). > And since our allocator is vastly superior phkmalloc isn't any more and it remains to be seen for jemalloc :) --------------enigC64C28F94A354F261EECD2E5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGR4ygldnAQVacBcgRAnPCAKCSVQ05vdceGu6NzeIgt5p34sAqKgCeLQvb +QQvUEuYizSSTvSr849/NaU= =zUMD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigC64C28F94A354F261EECD2E5-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 22:49:43 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A4616A403 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 22:49:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69CE713C448 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 22:49:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id B12B81A4D81; Sun, 13 May 2007 15:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 15:50:31 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20070513225031.GC21795@elvis.mu.org> References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:49:43 -0000 * Ivan Voras [070513 15:12] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Let's clear the issue here... FreeBSD did not have a choice in the > > matter. > > Actually it did. The SIGABORT codepath was only executed in case the > process is running under uid=0, in other cases it would just print out > the warning. I think behaviour such as this is a violation of POLA as > the behaviour is different depending on which users runs it (and if the > allocator can clearly handle the situation for nonprivileged users, it > can also handle it for root, but instead chose to be annoying). Ah I see. It's pretty worrysome that this passes for OK in the community. Considering the number of heap overflows I can't see this as being too much of a bad thing. > > We can't be "bug for bug tolerant" with Linnex without copying > > their allocator. > > No, but we can with the documented parts, and > malloc-inside-signal-handler support is documented > (http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/old/texinfo/glibc-manual-0.02/library_toc.html#SEC357). > > > Even if it's forbidden by POSIX or other standards, FreeBSD isn't > popular enough to be one of the systems that don't support it. I don't know about that, for the longest time Linux's "fsync" call was async because it was "faster", I'd not like to compete on those terms. Worse is not better. -- - Alfred Perlstein From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 23:01:26 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9526D16A404; Sun, 13 May 2007 23:01:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from ls405.t-com.hr (ls405.t-com.hr [195.29.150.135]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FF613C455; Sun, 13 May 2007 23:01:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from ls248.t-com.hr (ls248.t-com.hr [195.29.150.237]) by ls405.t-com.hr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B241450C4; Mon, 14 May 2007 01:01:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ls248.t-com.hr (ls248.t-com.hr [127.0.0.1]) by ls248.t-com.hr (Qmlai) with ESMTP id 2ACC8D5004A; Mon, 14 May 2007 01:01:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ls248.t-com.hr (ls248.t-com.hr [127.0.0.1]) by ls248.t-com.hr (Qmlai) with ESMTP id 15B77D50047; Mon, 14 May 2007 01:01:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Envelope-Sender-Info: g5URFa92gX9K/Rg9VFA/rAl+cNvCKJBJAbKY1Urjd886StkSH1j7CT0zJW9WjWDV X-Envelope-Sender: ivoras@fer.hr Received: from [10.0.0.100] (78-1-78-250.adsl.net.t-com.hr [78.1.78.250]) by ls248.t-com.hr (Qmali) with ESMTP id D804D5E0035; Mon, 14 May 2007 01:01:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <464798C2.8030307@fer.hr> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 01:01:22 +0200 From: Ivan Voras User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <20070513225031.GC21795@elvis.mu.org> In-Reply-To: <20070513225031.GC21795@elvis.mu.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.3.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig77AFB0240F6938A482732EC6" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 23:01:26 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig77AFB0240F6938A482732EC6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Ivan Voras [070513 15:12] wrote: >> Even if it's forbidden by POSIX or other standards, FreeBSD isn't >> popular enough to be one of the systems that don't support it. >=20 > I don't know about that, for the longest time Linux's "fsync" > call was async because it was "faster", I'd not like to compete > on those terms. Worse is not better. Of course not, but I dragged out an example where the implementation could handle a situation, but chose not to (any that only in certain cases) in the name of standards compliance. I consider this wrong because the "lenient" behaviour is a superset of required one, and in any case the choice shouldn't be made based on uid. In short, "beware of arbitrary standards' compliance" :) --------------enig77AFB0240F6938A482732EC6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGR5jCldnAQVacBcgRAiaLAKDHRMsHhWkxCCpON53jGOQZtNenygCgvxx/ GARRNz2TVAK/X7vAD+0fpi4= =Dhyh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig77AFB0240F6938A482732EC6-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 13 23:02:58 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C50616A402 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 23:02:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CDB213C46E for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 23:02:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 7D3211A3C1A; Sun, 13 May 2007 16:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 16:03:46 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20070513230346.GD21795@elvis.mu.org> References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <20070513225031.GC21795@elvis.mu.org> <464798C2.8030307@fer.hr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <464798C2.8030307@fer.hr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 23:02:58 -0000 * Ivan Voras [070513 16:02] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Ivan Voras [070513 15:12] wrote: > > >> Even if it's forbidden by POSIX or other standards, FreeBSD isn't > >> popular enough to be one of the systems that don't support it. > > > > I don't know about that, for the longest time Linux's "fsync" > > call was async because it was "faster", I'd not like to compete > > on those terms. Worse is not better. > > Of course not, but I dragged out an example where the implementation > could handle a situation, but chose not to (any that only in certain > cases) in the name of standards compliance. I consider this wrong > because the "lenient" behaviour is a superset of required one, and in > any case the choice shouldn't be made based on uid. > > In short, "beware of arbitrary standards' compliance" :) I agree, but I don't see a way to do this without pessimizing malloc/free performance. I should have a look at what glibc does to see how it impacts them. -- - Alfred Perlstein From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 06:58:15 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2BEC16A404; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:58:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5603713C44B; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:58:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76D320A7; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:58:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A19C20A6; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:58:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0C998563C; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:58:11 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) To: Ivan Voras References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 08:58:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> (Ivan Voras's message of "Mon\, 14 May 2007 00\:09\:30 +0200") Message-ID: <86sl9zyjr1.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 06:58:15 -0000 Ivan Voras writes: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Let's clear the issue here... FreeBSD did not have a choice in the > > matter. > Actually it did. The SIGABORT codepath was only executed in case the > process is running under uid=3D0, in other cases it would just print out > the warning. I think behaviour such as this is a violation of POLA as > the behaviour is different depending on which users runs it (and if the > allocator can clearly handle the situation for nonprivileged users, it > can also handle it for root, but instead chose to be annoying). So you think remote exploitable root vulnerabilities are OK? DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 07:06:15 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222DC16A40D; Mon, 14 May 2007 07:06:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D22A13C4BD; Mon, 14 May 2007 07:06:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF6C20A7; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:06:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DDE20A6; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:06:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1A6E15644; Mon, 14 May 2007 09:06:08 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) To: Ivan Voras References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:06:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> (Ivan Voras's message of "Mon\, 14 May 2007 00\:09\:30 +0200") Message-ID: <86lkfryjds.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 07:06:15 -0000 Ivan Voras writes: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > We can't be "bug for bug tolerant" with Linnex without copying their > > allocator. > No, but we can with the documented parts, and > malloc-inside-signal-handler support is documented > (http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/old/texinfo/glibc-manual-0.02/library_toc.ht= ml#SEC357). That would require adding at least two system calls to the malloc() / free() overhead to support an extremely rare case which is already documented not to work, and known not to work on numerous other platforms. It is wrong of the PHP authors to assume that all the world is GNU / Linux. I see no reason not vindicate their mistakes. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 12:30:28 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA8C16A405; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECF013C44C; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:30:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384A1471CF; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:30:26 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Ivan Voras In-Reply-To: <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> Message-ID: <20070514132901.X24765@fledge.watson.org> References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Alfred Perlstein , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:30:28 -0000 On Mon, 14 May 2007, Ivan Voras wrote: > (This being said, since I'm not going to create a malloc implementation any > time soon, it of course depends on the particular author what will or will > not be supported :) ). > >> And since our allocator is vastly superior > > phkmalloc isn't any more and it remains to be seen for jemalloc :) Actually, competitive MySQL benchmarking against Linux seems to illustrate that jemalloc is dramatically more scalable than the native glibc malloc, and comparable with the google malloc. I have to admit, however, that I do wish we'd retained an easy switch to let us go back and forth between phkmalloc and jemalloc for comparison purposes. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 12:38:10 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B74D16A402 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:38:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from pinus.cc.fer.hr (pinus.cc.fer.hr [161.53.73.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6CD13C44B for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from [161.53.72.113] (lara.cc.fer.hr [161.53.72.113]) by pinus.cc.fer.hr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id l4ECls3f000585; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:47:54 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <46485822.7080000@fer.hr> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:37:54 +0200 From: Ivan Voras User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20060911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <20070514132901.X24765@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20070514132901.X24765@fledge.watson.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigAA40514D9AE0E1F1B5200EA2" Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:38:10 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigAA40514D9AE0E1F1B5200EA2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert Watson wrote: > Actually, competitive MySQL benchmarking against Linux seems to=20 > illustrate that jemalloc is dramatically more scalable than the native = > glibc malloc, and comparable with the google malloc. =20 Did NetCraft confirm it? :) (i.e. it's still a long time until someone from "the other camp" can=20 install a shiny new 7.0-RELEASE and test it :) ) --------------enigAA40514D9AE0E1F1B5200EA2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGSFgvldnAQVacBcgRAl7yAKDm5xpoayv2DwDMecaZiLhN5CI1cACgolNz KT7BwaG/a9Xovw1RDscbo+k= =Nv4k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigAA40514D9AE0E1F1B5200EA2-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 14:56:14 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C0C16A410 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:56:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.237]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AF213C468 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:56:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s1so1909191nze for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 07:56:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=ityqgo57NqHgq3AGzsJz/5MJEjNMgm3yB9xbQPoj/nMnF24BK2JbuLUMqo2Kxt5WSey5sFrwrbX8VDJXQXtymP+yViH+lisyhgcUFXD/Z75cO/ZNhSfWwBHDmZCLkqZZOqctZ7u3QLaQyvjkm3vsEiMgsRJ3R27EuS/RXOQ+zJ0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=jPXvLdimalw0/IAfBz6vXsht3q8avkzjCkn/ZlwQ02MyAHyjqwnH27ppP99YlwpIbQcok+8ZSorcH9X/LaGpUYxzdIeoAuwXMiHsIopqpRzbKzu/df2g02G7T4sPVF/jr4+cR33CK2YQnX3CmHKMMBy7vPUEK55GYs8cefII5Iw= Received: by 10.114.13.1 with SMTP id 1mr1007307wam.1179152955339; Mon, 14 May 2007 07:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.54.2 with HTTP; Mon, 14 May 2007 07:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 22:29:15 +0800 From: MQ To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:56:14 -0000 Hi, I'm writing a network application these days, for compatibility, I choose the select(2) interface to do event polling. When using it, I'm curious about the fact that the type of the final parameter is `struct timeval *'. I skimmed through the codes in /sys/kern/sys_generic.c, there is nothing written to this address. So, I think if we can use `const struct timeval *' instead? This type can inform the users explicitly that we do NOT modify the timeval struct. But I'm not sure if this modification will conflict with the POSIX standard. Will you please tell me your considerations? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks. MQ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 15:21:10 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84EAC16A405 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:21:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erikt@midgard.homeip.net) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B0413C458 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:21:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erikt@midgard.homeip.net) Received: from c83-253-10-135.bredband.comhem.se ([83.253.10.135]:49402 helo=falcon.midgard.homeip.net) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with smtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1Hnc7V-0002yH-7K for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:05:53 +0200 Received: (qmail 6746 invoked from network); 14 May 2007 17:05:51 +0200 Received: from owl.midgard.homeip.net (10.1.5.7) by falcon.midgard.homeip.net with SMTP; 14 May 2007 17:05:51 +0200 Received: (qmail 73311 invoked by uid 1001); 14 May 2007 17:05:51 +0200 Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:05:51 +0200 From: Erik Trulsson To: MQ Message-ID: <20070514150550.GA73252@owl.midgard.homeip.net> Mail-Followup-To: MQ , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.14 (2007-02-12) X-ACL-Warn: Too high rate of unknown addresses received from you X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1Hnc7V-0002yH-7K. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1Hnc7V-0002yH-7K 9ef597d30aacaf2c5a3e4b4b8c197282 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:21:10 -0000 On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 10:29:15PM +0800, MQ wrote: > Hi, > I'm writing a network application these days, for compatibility, I choose > the select(2) interface to do event polling. When using it, I'm curious > about the fact that the type of the final parameter is `struct timeval *'. I > skimmed through the codes in /sys/kern/sys_generic.c, there is nothing > written to this address. So, I think if we can use `const struct timeval *' > instead? This type can inform the users explicitly that we do NOT modify the > timeval struct. But I'm not sure if this modification will conflict with the > POSIX standard. Will you please tell me your considerations? Any suggestions > will be appreciated. > Thanks. Some other implementations *do* write to that adress. >From the select(2) manpage on a Linux system: On Linux, select() modifies timeout to reflect the amount of time not slept; most other imple- mentations do not do this. (POSIX.1-2001 permits either behaviour.) This causes problems both when Linux code which reads timeout is ported to other operating systems, and when code is ported to Linux that reuses a struct timeval for multiple select()s in a loop without reini- tializing it. Consider timeout to be undefined after select() returns. The FreeBSD select(2) manpage says: BUGS Version 2 of the Single UNIX Specification (`SUSv2'') allows systems to modify the original timeout in place. Thus, it is unwise to assume that the timeout value will be unmodified by the select() system call. -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 15:25:41 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84F716A404 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:25:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F1613C480 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:25:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9673020A8; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:25:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CEC120A6; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:25:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F2F6950D8; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:25:36 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) To: MQ References: Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:25:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: (antinvidia@gmail.com's message of "Mon\, 14 May 2007 22\:29\:15 +0800") Message-ID: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:25:41 -0000 MQ writes: > I'm writing a network application these days, for compatibility, I choose > the select(2) interface to do event polling. When using it, I'm curious > about the fact that the type of the final parameter is `struct timeval *'= . I > skimmed through the codes in /sys/kern/sys_generic.c, there is nothing > written to this address. So, I think if we can use `const struct timeval = *' > instead? This type can inform the users explicitly that we do NOT modify = the > timeval struct. But I'm not sure if this modification will conflict with = the > POSIX standard. Will you please tell me your considerations? Any suggesti= ons > will be appreciated. According to POSIX, the struct timeval may be updated to reflect the amount of time left if select() returns early (so you can call select() again with the same struct timeval and hit your original deadline). In reality, there is so much old code around that depends on it *not* being updated that this has never been implemented. This is often mentioned as an example of why blindly implementing a standard is not a good idea. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 16:29:28 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD07216A405 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost2.sentex.ca (smarthost2.sentex.ca [205.211.164.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99BEA13C4AE for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost2.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4EFpaCK067174; Mon, 14 May 2007 11:51:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4EFpZBb099847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 14 May 2007 11:51:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <200705141551.l4EFpZBb099847@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:51:25 -0400 To: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ), Takeharu KATO From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <86tzuxni1b.fsf@dwp.des.no> References: <46337B06.9080102@ybb.ne.jp> <46338C0F.9000608@ybb.ne.jp> <4633932A.8080602@ybb.ne.jp> <86tzuxni1b.fsf@dwp.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ichwd for ICH8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:29:28 -0000 At 03:02 AM 5/1/2007, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: >Takeharu KATO writes: > > I wrote ICH7 or later support patch for sys/dev/ichwd watch dog driver. > > I tested this patch on ICH8 compliant mother board(GIGA BYTE= GA-965P-DS3). > > > > Please apply the patch. > >I will try to take care of this some time within the next two weeks. >Feel free to contact me off-list if you have any updates. Hi, This applies cleanly to RELENG_6 and=20 actually works on my super micro board. The base ichwd does not ichwd0: on isa0 # FreeBSD 6.2 ppc0: parallel port not found. ichwd0: detaching ichwd0: detached ichwd module unloaded ichwd module loaded ichwd0: at port=20 0x1030-0x1037,0x1060-0x1069 on isa0 # RELENG_6 ppc0: parallel port not found. ichwd0: detached ichwd module unloaded ichwd module loaded ichwd0: at port=20 0x1030-0x1037,0x1060-0x1069 on isa0 # RELENG_6 plus current patch ichwd0: Intel ICH7 watchdog timer (TCO version 2) ppc0: parallel port not found. isab0@pci0:31:0: class=3D0x060100=20 card=3D0x798015d9 chip=3D0x27b88086 rev=3D0x01 hdr=3D0x00 vendor =3D 'Intel Corporation' device =3D '82801GB/GR (ICH7 Family) LPC Interface Controller' class =3D bridge subclass =3D PCI-ISA cap 09[e0] =3D vendor (length 12) Intel cap 1 version 0 features: Quick Resume, 4 PCI-e x1 slots ---Mike=20 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 17:23:34 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F54816A469 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:23:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from takeharu1219@ybb.ne.jp) Received: from ybbsmtp02.mail.ogk.yahoo.co.jp (ybbsmtp02.mail.ogk.yahoo.co.jp [124.83.153.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D9E8E13C45A for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from takeharu1219@ybb.ne.jp) Received: (qmail 7266 invoked by alias); 14 May 2007 17:23:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=ybb20050223; d=ybb.ne.jp; b=oiqB8HWASSAqgGfLypZVYGGDLDxkKdmEr5vc/XH8AHToa22icq+x7Ukzmzbckp8fAVLFTt/1tOzNJYv/7kbPIT1JIybN+AgvSH6JlNpjZRbN1vPkuQfBu3zN5ca0vD3B ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (takeharu1219@219.35.170.86 with plain) by ybbsmtp02.mail.ogk.yahoo.co.jp with SMTP; 14 May 2007 17:23:31 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <46489B0C.7060104@ybb.ne.jp> Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 02:23:24 +0900 From: Takeharu KATO User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Tancsa References: <46337B06.9080102@ybb.ne.jp> <46338C0F.9000608@ybb.ne.jp> <4633932A.8080602@ybb.ne.jp> <86tzuxni1b.fsf@dwp.des.no> <200705141551.l4EFpZBb099847@lava.sentex.ca> In-Reply-To: <200705141551.l4EFpZBb099847@lava.sentex.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ichwd for ICH8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:23:34 -0000 Hi, Thank you for your testing. > on isa0 # RELENG_6 > ppc0: parallel port not found. > ichwd0: detached > ichwd module unloaded > ichwd module loaded > ichwd0: at port 0x1030-0x1037,0x1060-0x1069 > on isa0 # RELENG_6 plus current patch > ichwd0: Intel ICH7 watchdog timer (TCO version 2) > ppc0: parallel port not found. > > isab0@pci0:31:0: class=0x060100 card=0x798015d9 chip=0x27b88086 > rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'Intel Corporation' > device = '82801GB/GR (ICH7 Family) LPC Interface Controller' > class = bridge > subclass = PCI-ISA > cap 09[e0] = vendor (length 12) Intel cap 1 version 0 > features: Quick Resume, 4 PCI-e x1 slots > > It looks worked correctly. Does the driver make the box reset when the box falls in hang-up? I do not have ICH-7 machine, so I am glad that you tested it. Thanks, From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 17:32:17 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F6716A403; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:32:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost2.sentex.ca (smarthost2.sentex.ca [205.211.164.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CF3D13C468; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:32:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost2.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4EHWEoL071409; Mon, 14 May 2007 13:32:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4EHWEGi000402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 14 May 2007 13:32:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <200705141732.l4EHWEGi000402@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:32:21 -0400 To: Takeharu KATO From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <46489B0C.7060104@ybb.ne.jp> References: <46337B06.9080102@ybb.ne.jp> <46338C0F.9000608@ybb.ne.jp> <4633932A.8080602@ybb.ne.jp> <86tzuxni1b.fsf@dwp.des.no> <200705141551.l4EFpZBb099847@lava.sentex.ca> <46489B0C.7060104@ybb.ne.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ichwd for ICH8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:32:17 -0000 At 01:23 PM 5/14/2007, Takeharu KATO wrote: >It looks worked correctly. >Does the driver make the box reset when the box falls in hang-up? >I do not have ICH-7 machine, so I am glad that you tested it. Hi, thank you for writing the fix! Yes, all works as expected. I tested it by doing a kill -9 watchdogd # kldload ./ichwd.ko # dmesg | tail -3 ichwd module loaded ichwd0: on isa0 ichwd0: Intel ICH7 watchdog timer (TCO version 2) # watchdogd -t 20 # ps -auxw | grep dog root 86686 0.0 0.0 1408 860 ?? Ss 1:28PM 0:00.00 watchdogd -t 20 root 86688 0.0 0.1 1596 1044 p0 S+ 1:28PM 0:00.00 grep dog # kill -9 86686 and about 20 seconds later, the box reboots. ---Mike From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 18:35:31 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C1816A403; Mon, 14 May 2007 18:35:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost2.sentex.ca (smarthost2.sentex.ca [205.211.164.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C42F13C487; Mon, 14 May 2007 18:35:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from lava.sentex.ca (pyroxene.sentex.ca [199.212.134.18]) by smarthost2.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4EIZSk4074355; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:35:28 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from mdt-xp.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [192.168.43.27]) by lava.sentex.ca (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l4EIZQA5000700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 14 May 2007 14:35:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <200705141835.l4EIZQA5000700@lava.sentex.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:35:34 -0400 To: Takeharu KATO From: Mike Tancsa In-Reply-To: <7.1.0.9.0.20070514132916.2666fcf8@sentex.net> References: <46337B06.9080102@ybb.ne.jp> <46338C0F.9000608@ybb.ne.jp> <4633932A.8080602@ybb.ne.jp> <86tzuxni1b.fsf@dwp.des.no> <200705141551.l4EFpZBb099847@lava.sentex.ca> <46489B0C.7060104@ybb.ne.jp> <7.1.0.9.0.20070514132916.2666fcf8@sentex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ichwd for ICH8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:35:31 -0000 At 01:32 PM 5/14/2007, Mike Tancsa wrote: >At 01:23 PM 5/14/2007, Takeharu KATO wrote: > >>It looks worked correctly. >>Does the driver make the box reset when the box falls in hang-up? >>I do not have ICH-7 machine, so I am glad that you tested it. Hi, I also tried it on an older box (ICH5) and all worked as expected with the older version. ichwd module loaded ichwd0: on isa0 ichwd0: Intel 82801EB/ER watchdog timer (TCO version 1) isab0@pci0:31:0: class=0x060100 card=0x00000000 chip=0x24d08086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) LPC Interface Bridge' class = bridge subclass = PCI-ISA I have an ICH4 and ICH7 box that I will try later tonight ---Mike From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 19:53:01 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C1416A404; Mon, 14 May 2007 19:53:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jasone@freebsd.org) Received: from canonware.com (canonware.com [64.183.146.166]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3669F13C458; Mon, 14 May 2007 19:53:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jasone@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.168.201] (canonware.com [64.183.146.166]) by canonware.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1A81298B4; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4648B65A.2040803@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:19:54 -0700 From: Jason Evans User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <20070514132901.X24765@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20070514132901.X24765@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Multiple malloc(3)s (was Re: HEADS DOWN) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:53:01 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: > I have to admit, > however, that I do wish we'd retained an easy switch to let us go back > and forth between phkmalloc and jemalloc for comparison purposes. It is pretty easy to go back and forth for comparison purposes, because revision 1.92 of src/lib/libc/stdlib/malloc.c is a source-compatible version of phkmalloc. You can update just that one file and get a libc with phkmalloc instead of jemalloc. I continue to make use of this for performance testing purposes, and it remains a sound strategy for diagnosing possible regressions. In my opinion, keeping only one malloc implementation in the base system was the right approach. Doing so put a lot of extra pressure on jemalloc to handle all conceivable edge cases, rather than punting here and there. (jemalloc underwent a massive redesign after it was initially committed, so there is physical evidence of how things could have gone without this pressure.) Giving users a choice between "predictable low memory usage and horribly slow multi-threaded performance", versus, "unpredictable memory usage and fast multi-threaded performance" puts users in a bad spot, because they have to choose the lesser of two evils. Jason From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 20:12:27 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C00B16A515; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:12:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BB813C43E; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:12:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699AD1A4D88; Mon, 14 May 2007 13:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 26A37515C1; Mon, 14 May 2007 16:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:12:24 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: Jason Evans Message-ID: <20070514201224.GA5386@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <20070514132901.X24765@fledge.watson.org> <4648B65A.2040803@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4648B65A.2040803@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: Robert Watson , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multiple malloc(3)s (was Re: HEADS DOWN) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:12:27 -0000 On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 12:19:54PM -0700, Jason Evans wrote: > Robert Watson wrote: > >I have to admit, > >however, that I do wish we'd retained an easy switch to let us go back > >and forth between phkmalloc and jemalloc for comparison purposes. > > It is pretty easy to go back and forth for comparison purposes, because > revision 1.92 of src/lib/libc/stdlib/malloc.c is a source-compatible > version of phkmalloc. You can update just that one file and get a libc > with phkmalloc instead of jemalloc. I continue to make use of this for > performance testing purposes, and it remains a sound strategy for > diagnosing possible regressions. I can confirm how trivial this is to do - it is indeed only one file that needs to be reverted, and you can even install it as a separate libc (e.g. in /tmp) and use LD_LIBRARY_PATH, libmap.conf, etc to direct access to it on a per-application basis. Kris From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 14 21:00:16 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E652516A403; Mon, 14 May 2007 21:00:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A707C13C468; Mon, 14 May 2007 21:00:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.61.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8906E17382; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:32:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4EKWVpd068826; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:32:32 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Jason Evans From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 14 May 2007 12:19:54 MST." <4648B65A.2040803@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:32:31 +0000 Message-ID: <68825.1179174751@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Cc: Robert Watson , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multiple malloc(3)s (was Re: HEADS DOWN) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:00:17 -0000 In message <4648B65A.2040803@freebsd.org>, Jason Evans writes: >Robert Watson wrote: >In my opinion, keeping only one malloc implementation in the base system >was the right approach. Doing so put a lot of extra pressure on >jemalloc to handle all conceivable edge cases, rather than punting here >and there. 100% agreement from here. Poul-Henning PS: Threading libraries (he said knowingly) "nudge nudge, wink wink!" -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 15 06:29:03 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC6216A402 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 06:29:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from pinus.cc.fer.hr (pinus.cc.fer.hr [161.53.73.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB2B13C43E for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 06:29:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from [161.53.72.113] (lara.cc.fer.hr [161.53.72.113]) by pinus.cc.fer.hr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id l4E9SN3f021934; Mon, 14 May 2007 11:28:24 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4648296D.5070708@fer.hr> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:18:37 +0200 From: Ivan Voras User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20060911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?RGFnLUVybGluZyBTbcO4cmdyYXY=?= References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <86sl9zyjr1.fsf@dwp.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86sl9zyjr1.fsf@dwp.des.no> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig87CDA9A8B27443F90878CBBE" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 06:29:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig87CDA9A8B27443F90878CBBE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > So you think remote exploitable root vulnerabilities are OK? You think varying malloc() behaviour based on uid is ok? --------------enig87CDA9A8B27443F90878CBBE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGSCltldnAQVacBcgRAm3xAJ9T7aTqswqwjTN25XJXP24oNQ0GDwCgx9Zh gISl3f9558n2aa+oQ0F3tb0= =7Cud -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig87CDA9A8B27443F90878CBBE-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 15 06:29:04 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200A216A403 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 06:29:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from pinus.cc.fer.hr (pinus.cc.fer.hr [161.53.73.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B5F13C44B for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 06:29:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivoras@fer.hr) Received: from [161.53.72.113] (lara.cc.fer.hr [161.53.72.113]) by pinus.cc.fer.hr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id l4E9YK3f022658; Mon, 14 May 2007 11:34:20 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <46482AD2.7010700@fer.hr> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:24:34 +0200 From: Ivan Voras User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20060911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?RGFnLUVybGluZyBTbcO4cmdyYXY=?= References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <86lkfryjds.fsf@dwp.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86lkfryjds.fsf@dwp.des.no> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig7B72B8FCB96D0303B8169E38" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 06:29:04 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig7B72B8FCB96D0303B8169E38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > It is wrong of the PHP authors to assume that all the world is GNU / > Linux. Yes. > I see no reason not vindicate their mistakes. I do: these days I need to heavily justify using FreeBSD instead of=20 Linux, and "the applications you want to run don't actually work on=20 FreeBSD" is not a nice thing to say. I feel that nowadays it's not a contest in popularity, it's damage=20 control phase. OTOH, everyone's entitled to his own opinion and won't argue this point=20 any more. --------------enig7B72B8FCB96D0303B8169E38 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGSCrSldnAQVacBcgRAoLPAJ98A5atREoFYVZtKPUbNNkQQFqLSACg67kh vlj1MNR/yzN7LK8phB0XsYY= =Sy+o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig7B72B8FCB96D0303B8169E38-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 15 06:53:34 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3BD16A402 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 06:53:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.239]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB38213C457 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 06:53:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s1so39684nze for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 23:53:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=QgCVjqAD4f4qwSaBefXQDvSJFrdjqssPoJb/2IrjUDpDa8zJNHRwLI1gp82SeQitptQU4fhs0qBT7y0kBMIWmwnlTVFOxKsRdEBdp8Kk2FpH3W+hXpMGtM1Mose+ZBXtM5kLAzbz+hVJuI990/KSmeT3WuNzarQtJNE50O/xswA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=mhm0PN6rSnC0pV/17xSyPe7PDL0LCutcpMsjFb7y8SQbtxrZPfb/DUTMM8HN6P4fw68XM19JVBMelUcpU4+TeYJ0wsl4mbmkH5zYKufXGL9nddkLjWIB4xpHd6pnsv9LGJucBJL5XVNLByr6FQu8mQExUs7B6QEFI/atc4aDTV8= Received: by 10.114.174.2 with SMTP id w2mr840982wae.1179212012749; Mon, 14 May 2007 23:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.54.2 with HTTP; Mon, 14 May 2007 23:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 06:53:32 +0000 From: MQ To: MQ , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20070514150550.GA73252@owl.midgard.homeip.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20070514150550.GA73252@owl.midgard.homeip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 06:53:34 -0000 2007/5/14, Erik Trulsson : > > On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 10:29:15PM +0800, MQ wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm writing a network application these days, for compatibility, I > choose > > the select(2) interface to do event polling. When using it, I'm curious > > about the fact that the type of the final parameter is `struct timeval > *'. I > > skimmed through the codes in /sys/kern/sys_generic.c, there is nothing > > written to this address. So, I think if we can use `const struct timeval > *' > > instead? This type can inform the users explicitly that we do NOT modify > the > > timeval struct. But I'm not sure if this modification will conflict with > the > > POSIX standard. Will you please tell me your considerations? Any > suggestions > > will be appreciated. > > Thanks. > > Some other implementations *do* write to that adress. > From the select(2) manpage on a Linux system: > > On Linux, select() modifies timeout to reflect the amount of time not > slept; most other imple- > mentations do not do this. (POSIX.1-2001 permits either behaviour.) > This causes problems both > when Linux code which reads timeout is ported to other operating > systems, and when code is > ported to Linux that reuses a struct timeval for multiple select()s > in a loop without reini- > tializing it. Consider timeout to be undefined after select() returns. > > The FreeBSD select(2) manpage says: > > BUGS > Version 2 of the Single UNIX Specification (`SUSv2'') allows systems > to > modify the original timeout in place. Thus, it is unwise to assume > that > the timeout value will be unmodified by the select() system call. > > > > > > -- > > Erik Trulsson > ertr1013@student.uu.se > I've considered that some OSes may write to that address before I initially posted to this mailing list. The key point here is that FreeBSD does NOT do this, and I want to know the committers' opinions about adding a `const' qualifier to the type. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 15 10:27:12 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE2F16A402 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 10:27:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4AC13C43E for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 10:27:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA8120A8; Tue, 15 May 2007 12:27:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A5D2088; Tue, 15 May 2007 12:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5B7AA517E; Tue, 15 May 2007 12:27:05 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) To: MQ References: <20070514150550.GA73252@owl.midgard.homeip.net> Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 12:27:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: (antinvidia@gmail.com's message of "Tue\, 15 May 2007 06\:53\:32 +0000") Message-ID: <86abw6gz5y.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:27:12 -0000 MQ writes: > I've considered that some OSes may write to that address before I initial= ly > posted to this mailing list. The key point here is that FreeBSD does NOT = do > this, and I want to know the committers' opinions about adding a `const' > qualifier to the type. Please don't. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 15 11:10:52 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E7316A402 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 11:10:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F69D13C459 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 11:10:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from kobe.laptop (host5.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.229]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id l4FB9k8r029523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 15 May 2007 14:09:52 +0300 Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FB9Qks004682; Tue, 15 May 2007 14:09:38 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l4FB9Ouv004680; Tue, 15 May 2007 14:09:24 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:09:23 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20070515110923.GA4471@kobe.laptop> References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-4.261, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.14, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@freebsd.org X-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 11:10:52 -0000 On 2007-05-13 02:30, Ivan Voras wrote: >Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> In message <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org>, Alfred Perlstein writes: >>> I like how phk malloc has it as an option. >> >> But notice that it is not an option for programs that runs as root >> or setuid/setgid etc. >> >> Given the hostility of networks, I would support a more hardcore >> attitude to memory mismanagement these days. > > Just a data point: many people were turned away from FreeBSD because a > few PHP releases did a double-free or malloc-inside-signal-handler > calls. Yes, GNU's malloc should have been stricter, but it's not funny > when your apache crashes with SIGABORT. This seems to imply that not crashing would somehow be better. But I doubt anybody would be happy if they realized that their PHP randomly corrupted user data because the system malloc() implementation was not strict enough. While I agree that an Apache server crashing is a bar thing, I don't buy into the mindset that would accept random heap corruption because "not crashing would be good". - Giorgos From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 15 18:24:18 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A67116A400 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 18:24:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7D713C45E for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 18:24:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l4FINTX0052423; Tue, 15 May 2007 12:23:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 12:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20070515.122336.-1253044239.imp@bsdimp.com> To: ivoras@fer.hr From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <46482AD2.7010700@fer.hr> References: <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <86lkfryjds.fsf@dwp.des.no> <46482AD2.7010700@fer.hr> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 15 May 2007 12:23:31 -0600 (MDT) Cc: des@des.no, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 18:24:18 -0000 In message: <46482AD2.7010700@fer.hr> Ivan Voras writes: : > I see no reason not vindicate their mistakes. : : I do: these days I need to heavily justify using FreeBSD instead of : Linux, and "the applications you want to run don't actually work on : FreeBSD" is not a nice thing to say. We can't possibly be bug-for-bug compatible with Linux. That's just an impossible standard to hit. Given the level of bugs in Linux, it isn't desirable. :-) : I feel that nowadays it's not a contest in popularity, it's damage : control phase. We just need more people to run PHP more often to catch these things and submit patches to the authors. That's the real problem here. While the primary authors assume all the world is Linux, having a vocal base of testers for FreeBSD pounding them into submission will fix the problem quickly. : OTOH, everyone's entitled to his own opinion and won't argue this point : any more. Agreed. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 16 12:59:21 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBA916A404 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 12:59:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.230]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F0E13C4B8 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 12:59:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s1so583809nze for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 05:59:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=EnhIMX59Vcl9SrvSMDFjMWUomFAS36l1mC2cP2AlvPUDLtXBCb1RtSjLbDlKJ6/aSPqJoSvoM7MQLgzaE6P38shPcTi5jp03JkcQ1cOqsm2cUP0YjXA/wdhqMsOwskNO999svzONXXZgwwbImkGaN5QHU8vqL7svRWkpoe8hMXo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ALMAUv4jQQej9k8SafTSU6vNu1I2fh+DcTuwldoZ5+R+2ZWZLB3R07e/rtRh3SjnIVTyBu8kviicfOLURqZsxpK3Q/EjeYbv2SRd0m0kx0MF8D0mfcLfidhB9bCJ5lId7w3DSNejHyaIaLnPgbZ5nbM4FMOzXAKBguzSEX5K3ho= Received: by 10.114.166.1 with SMTP id o1mr2141057wae.1179320359195; Wed, 16 May 2007 05:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.54.2 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 05:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:59:19 +0800 From: MQ To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:59:21 -0000 2007/5/15, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav : > > MQ writes: > > After all, I don't think this is a real problem with the first > condition. So is > > there any other reasons that we should not add the qualifier? Actually, > what I > > was anxious about is that there is some rules that ask the committers t= o > follow > > the standards stringently. If adjusting the type is impossible, shall w= e > add > > some comments in the man page to reflect that we do not write to the > address? > > It already has this: > > BUGS > Version 2 of the Single UNIX Specification (``SUSv2'') allows system= s > to > modify the original timeout in place. Thus, it is unwise to assume > that > the timeout value will be unmodified by the select() system call. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no > No, that is not what I want. I think we'd better add a comments that we *DO NOT WRITE TO THAT ADDRESS*, what the manual describes is that there may be some platforms which write to that address. It's not the same thing. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 16 13:05:45 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51BFE16A404 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 13:05:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C86213C4BB for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 13:05:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 70so174934wra for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ZHTehV4YP9p+Outxk96J4b2/GCsMsQa/NsvsjFaDIHxSWJ5h6koF6cl3KJ68jFdatGWe80Fv5s5+i5ZWzYKTV0FAtpTPRjsSlfZQky1RuycpygnQAtWAIYKKUBbUSn85vptTJ6fOY0O3BBmS2lpqegPWNAMtAm7s3UC1a3J9Xgg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=o481LfqMnaMLGitmPX06+KgkJ9meKzYl32z+uYGqSR7wamwBeygj6UVC2poSQR3TJK/hyVQrkPVOdoEtSiLpr7XudjuetuFReOYEHg9CfRQTa1CwacQCK4wxwn3hU4FOcu/v2jib2Zc7vBqLMZ9tw+44ZCfwvPtjdGLGPd7jbec= Received: by 10.115.77.1 with SMTP id e1mr2155860wal.1179320742695; Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.54.2 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 06:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:05:42 +0800 From: MQ To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 13:05:45 -0000 2007/5/14, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav : > > MQ writes: > > I'm writing a network application these days, for compatibility, I > choose > > the select(2) interface to do event polling. When using it, I'm curious > > about the fact that the type of the final parameter is `struct timeval > *'. I > > skimmed through the codes in /sys/kern/sys_generic.c, there is nothing > > written to this address. So, I think if we can use `const struct timeva= l > *' > > instead? This type can inform the users explicitly that we do NOT modif= y > the > > timeval struct. But I'm not sure if this modification will conflict wit= h > the > > POSIX standard. Will you please tell me your considerations? Any > suggestions > > will be appreciated. > > According to POSIX, the struct timeval may be updated to reflect the > amount of time left if select() returns early (so you can call select() > again with the same struct timeval and hit your original deadline). In > reality, there is so much old code around that depends on it *not* being > updated that this has never been implemented. > > This is often mentioned as an example of why blindly implementing a > standard is not a good idea. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no > I'm very sorry that yesterday I replied to des only by mistake. For completeness, the mail is here. I don't think it makes to much difference if we add a `const' qualifier to the type. There are 4 types of conditions when porting the applications which use select(2): 1. from FreeBSD to an OS that doesn't modify this timeval struct 2. from FreeBSD to an OS that DO modify this timeval struct 3. from an OS that doesn't update this struct to FreeBSD 4. from an OS that update this struct to FreeBSD In circumstance 2 and circumstance 4, the programmer should always concern that the difference between the source platform and destination platform. S= o add a `const' qualifier does not affect the original codes too much. In circumstance 3, we can directly accept the codes. The addtional `const' qualifier can be simply ignored. Because the cast from a `type *' to `const type *' is acceptable. In circumstance 1, adding a `const' qualifier in our implementation may mak= e things a bit different. The addtional `const' allows a pointer variable of type `const struct timeval *' to be passed to select(2). If someone have done something like that, his code would be warned by the compiler under other platforms in which select(2) accepts only `struct timeval *'. After all, I don't think this is a real problem with the first condition. S= o is there any other reasons that we should not add the qualifier? Actually, what I was anxious about is that there is some rules that ask the committer= s to follow the standards stringently. If adjusting the type is impossible, shall we add some comments in the man page to reflect that we do not write to the address? From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 16 13:23:22 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA3D16A400 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 13:23:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F69113C45B for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 13:23:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3802920AA; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:23:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AFC720A8; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:23:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1269852D9; Wed, 16 May 2007 15:23:15 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=) To: MQ References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:23:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: (antinvidia@gmail.com's message of "Wed\, 16 May 2007 20\:59\:19 +0800") Message-ID: <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 13:23:22 -0000 MQ writes: > No, that is not what I want. I think we'd better add a comments that > we *DO NOT WRITE TO THAT ADDRESS*, what the manual describes is that > there may be some platforms which write to that address. It's not the > same thing. Some platforms update the timeval and some don't, so portable applications must simply assume that its contents are undefined after the select(2) call. It can not be relied on to contain either the initial value nor the amount of time remaining. Thus your proposed change is pointless. And stop yelling, please. It won't get you anywhere (except possibly my kill file). DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 16 14:42:09 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB5016A406 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 14:42:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from larry@fantasyclub.ru) Received: from smtp-19.masterhost.ru (smtp-19.masterhost.ru [83.222.24.119]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8127D13C480 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 14:42:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from larry@fantasyclub.ru) Received: (qmail 73239 invoked from network); 16 May 2007 14:15:07 -0000 Received: from fox9.f-h.in (HELO ?10.8.0.42?) (larry@fantasyclub.ru@69.31.83.58) by smtp1.masterhost.ru with SMTP; 16 May 2007 14:15:07 -0000 From: =?windows-1251?b?wuDx6Ovo6SDP5fLw7uI=?= To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 22:15:02 +0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200705162215.02507.larry@fantasyclub.ru> Cc: Subject: kernel_map X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 14:42:09 -0000 Is any way to find out how much kernel virtual address space is used and how much is free? I'm getting troubles overflowing this so I want to know how much of KVA space is free on box. As I understood, complete data on KVA space usage kept in kernel_map object. As it resides in KVA space itself I can access it with kvm_read. But I have no idea of how to determine its address in KVA space. Is any way to do that from userland program? Generally, maybe there is other way to get KVA space usage info? PS: I mean exactly preallocated for buffers KVA space, not memory allocated for buffers. As I see this is different things, as system reserves space in KVA space for maximal size of kernel buffers. And system will crash on boot if buffers limit is too high, and not upon allocating that much space. So I want to know info about that reservation to know how much can I grow buffer limits (especially kern.nbuf). From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 16 14:54:27 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A392D16A401; Wed, 16 May 2007 14:54:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6386513C45E; Wed, 16 May 2007 14:54:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADDF20A7; Wed, 16 May 2007 16:54:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28A722088; Wed, 16 May 2007 16:54:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0C88152E9; Wed, 16 May 2007 16:54:22 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: =?utf-8?B?0JLQsNGB0LjQu9C40Lkg0J/QtdGC0YDQvtCy?= References: <200705162215.02507.larry@fantasyclub.ru> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:54:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <200705162215.02507.larry@fantasyclub.ru> (=?utf-8?B?ItCS0LA=?= =?utf-8?B?0YHQuNC70LjQuSDQn9C10YLRgNC+0LIiJ3M=?= message of "Wed\, 16 May 2007 22\:15\:02 +0800") Message-ID: <86k5v8iztt.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kernel_map X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 14:54:27 -0000 =D0=92=D0=B0=D1=81=D0=B8=D0=BB=D0=B8=D0=B9 =D0=9F=D0=B5=D1=82=D1=80=D0=BE= =D0=B2 writes: > Is any way to find out how much kernel virtual address space is used > and how much is free? I'm getting troubles overflowing this so I want > to know how much of KVA space is free on box. Don't 'vmstat -m' and 'vmstat -z' tell you pretty much everything you need to know? DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 10:12:47 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C6216A400 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:12:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-3-125.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.3.125]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C243713C458 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:12:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H9ijOw001718; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:44:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l4H9ij8b001717; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:44:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:44:45 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-ID: <20070517094445.GD1149@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Cc: MQ , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:12:47 -0000 --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2007-May-16 15:23:14 +0200, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: >MQ writes: >> No, that is not what I want. I think we'd better add a comments that >> we *DO NOT WRITE TO THAT ADDRESS*, what the manual describes is that >> there may be some platforms which write to that address. It's not the >> same thing. > >Some platforms update the timeval and some don't, so portable >applications must simply assume that its contents are undefined after >the select(2) call. It can not be relied on to contain either the >initial value nor the amount of time remaining. Thus your proposed >change is pointless. I disagree. The FreeBSD man pages should document the behaviour of FreeBSD. It's all very nice stating that SUSv2 allows a system to modify the value passed as timeout but (IMNSHO), it is more important to document what FreeBSD actually does. I agree that a _portable_ application must assume that timeout will be undefined but that's no reason for refusing to document what FreeBSD's behaviour actually is. There are two situations where the actual behaviour matters: 1) Porting a random application that assumes specific behaviour for select(). I need to know how FreeBSD behaves to know whether I need to patch the code or not. 2) I'm writing code that is specifically for FreeBSD. If I know timeout will not change, I can optimise the code to avoid having to re-initialise timeout before each select call. --=20 Peter Jeremy --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFGTCQN/opHv/APuIcRAsCUAJ9n8LtooI01J4ma2ZlhAFeBJj1CkACgnFjB tF7eMcezXzrQtODHHZrW9ko= =1sRp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 10:44:19 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A621416A400 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:44:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63DE513C48A for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:44:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47F4208A; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:44:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA5B2087; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:44:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0A102507E; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:44:15 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Peter Jeremy References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> <20070517094445.GD1149@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:44:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20070517094445.GD1149@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> (Peter Jeremy's message of "Thu\, 17 May 2007 19\:44\:45 +1000") Message-ID: <86ps4zu3up.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: MQ , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:44:19 -0000 Peter Jeremy writes: > There are two situations where the actual behaviour matters: > 1) Porting a random application that assumes specific behaviour for > select(). I need to know how FreeBSD behaves to know whether I > need to patch the code or not. Easy: patch the code to not assume anything about the contents of the struct timeval after select(2) returns. > 2) I'm writing code that is specifically for FreeBSD. If I know > timeout will not change, I can optimise the code to avoid having to > re-initialise timeout before each select call. OK, I'll bite. If you can show me that you were actually able to measure the difference in performance between code that reinitializes the timeout every time and code that doesn't, I'll commit your patch. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 11:00:58 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5506A16A401 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.233]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3EBB13C468 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:00:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s1so961472nze for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:00:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ErT3D91z2IOCzSRhFPgnzPVHlM+cV7wdPN+MUAmMXkwt8FP7N+xBR9RfdctdBpilJ8BjotKT0EZSGMWR8zbdT6SD+2QNQWWkd5fQt/F5qj5KTj1qal8A6xjKBmcdEnvRVQt0IWAVVh1wHnIhN13R5gl7dj5ula08Xm3gw5VbL1Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=N52tBB7H5IxutuTvzI/8afhyOLEstd2ahVQbMyumZDRxNVXw7odKZr6lOHmHGcFKBUvb5t3ix8hDPszHzDoAI00is2DYbtuTy9zE/27Y7+2mdrZI9WOSqqSt7bXnvynhi5RN9ziYEIB8D4N9Wmf/1O5AXlJ7Vm+DXwf/WPlhxHo= Received: by 10.114.193.1 with SMTP id q1mr136757waf.1179399656973; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.54.2 with HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:00:56 +0800 From: MQ To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:00:58 -0000 2007/5/16, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav : > > MQ writes: > > No, that is not what I want. I think we'd better add a comments that > > we *DO NOT WRITE TO THAT ADDRESS*, what the manual describes is that > > there may be some platforms which write to that address. It's not the > > same thing. > > Some platforms update the timeval and some don't, so portable > applications must simply assume that its contents are undefined after > the select(2) call. It can not be relied on to contain either the > initial value nor the amount of time remaining. Thus your proposed > change is pointless. > > And stop yelling, please. It won't get you anywhere (except possibly my > kill file). > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no > What is yelling? Did I yelling? I don't know how do you get this conclusion= . I just stated my opinion to let everyone understand what I was think about. If you were threatening to remove my mail from you mail box, do as you wish= . From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 11:09:27 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20DC16A402 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:09:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.225]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE9E13C45B for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:09:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antinvidia@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s1so963568nze for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:09:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=H3oKpEx2bhbwC9B/6n2uxvawWfkkq4yQ1p0eVnqDdIH0m4i6lCBrlZ3Tq4py2CyXyMUII6/zULpLgJavLoeu3ZN8Waxz+fhW4yf7j60yj7MTWKFUdQmvHTeJN3hnitmB6gjedmx+MheyWJFHxKLSIyQXZS0SBvtdtvNr/4Qe7Rk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=QaFPQd2C8BVWxigM4lcosxTwi8YjHkQvzgLBe4IGZdTCYIStTibs2EZgwsPLr0oLpKypDSjzAhqaulATARgNr6BhnLJ7cK9Fc7lsd/SLDDl7NW2hmX/zeFqTZLGmYAJq80jhTd/m2rwBUyQ/5UnbxthDyeeGJh9BHPzdxl3NUkY= Received: by 10.114.167.2 with SMTP id p2mr144411wae.1179400159152; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.54.2 with HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:09:19 +0800 From: MQ To: "Peter Jeremy" In-Reply-To: <20070517094445.GD1149@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> <20070517094445.GD1149@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:09:27 -0000 2007/5/17, Peter Jeremy : > > On 2007-May-16 15:23:14 +0200, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: > >MQ writes: > >> No, that is not what I want. I think we'd better add a comments that > >> we *DO NOT WRITE TO THAT ADDRESS*, what the manual describes is that > >> there may be some platforms which write to that address. It's not the > >> same thing. > > > >Some platforms update the timeval and some don't, so portable > >applications must simply assume that its contents are undefined after > >the select(2) call. It can not be relied on to contain either the > >initial value nor the amount of time remaining. Thus your proposed > >change is pointless. > > I disagree. The FreeBSD man pages should document the behaviour of > FreeBSD. It's all very nice stating that SUSv2 allows a system to > modify the value passed as timeout but (IMNSHO), it is more important > to document what FreeBSD actually does. > > I agree that a _portable_ application must assume that timeout will > be undefined but that's no reason for refusing to document what > FreeBSD's behaviour actually is. > > There are two situations where the actual behaviour matters: > 1) Porting a random application that assumes specific behaviour for > select(). I need to know how FreeBSD behaves to know whether I > need to patch the code or not. > 2) I'm writing code that is specifically for FreeBSD. If I know > timeout will not change, I can optimise the code to avoid having to > re-initialise timeout before each select call. > > -- > Peter Jeremy > > Yes, that is actually what I want. Without knowing about what the OS would deal with the address, maybe developers need to define two timeval struct, one for keeping the data, the other for the select() syscall. It seems ugly. Once the behavior of FreeBSD is described clearly, it's more convenient for developers to write codes cleanly and efficiently. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 12:03:21 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5E116A401 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:03:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from noop.in-addr.com (noop.in-addr.com [208.58.23.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609CA13C45D for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:03:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from gjp by noop.in-addr.com with local (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1HoeRV-0005T8-N4; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:46:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:46:49 -0400 From: Gary Palmer To: MQ Message-ID: <20070517114649.GE28958@in-addr.com> Mail-Followup-To: MQ , Peter Jeremy , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> <20070517094445.GD1149@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:03:21 -0000 On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 07:09:19PM +0800, MQ wrote: > 2007/5/17, Peter Jeremy : > > > >On 2007-May-16 15:23:14 +0200, Dag-Erling Smrgrav wrote: > >>MQ writes: > >>> No, that is not what I want. I think we'd better add a comments that > >>> we *DO NOT WRITE TO THAT ADDRESS*, what the manual describes is that > >>> there may be some platforms which write to that address. It's not the > >>> same thing. > >> > >>Some platforms update the timeval and some don't, so portable > >>applications must simply assume that its contents are undefined after > >>the select(2) call. It can not be relied on to contain either the > >>initial value nor the amount of time remaining. Thus your proposed > >>change is pointless. > > > >I disagree. The FreeBSD man pages should document the behaviour of > >FreeBSD. It's all very nice stating that SUSv2 allows a system to > >modify the value passed as timeout but (IMNSHO), it is more important > >to document what FreeBSD actually does. > > > >I agree that a _portable_ application must assume that timeout will > >be undefined but that's no reason for refusing to document what > >FreeBSD's behaviour actually is. > > > >There are two situations where the actual behaviour matters: > >1) Porting a random application that assumes specific behaviour for > > select(). I need to know how FreeBSD behaves to know whether I > > need to patch the code or not. > >2) I'm writing code that is specifically for FreeBSD. If I know > > timeout will not change, I can optimise the code to avoid having to > > re-initialise timeout before each select call. > > > >-- > >Peter Jeremy > > > > > > Yes, that is actually what I want. > Without knowing about what the OS would deal with the address, maybe > developers need to define two timeval struct, one for keeping the data, the > other for the select() syscall. It seems ugly. > Once the behavior of FreeBSD is described clearly, it's more convenient for > developers to write codes cleanly and efficiently. And if we change the behaviour tomorrow your code breaks in really interesting and probably difficult to debug ways. Code with the assumption that the timeval struct will change and you'll be much safer. If we do document the behaviour, while it will help address point (1) above it will also encourage bad coding practices. As such, I'm on the fence in this discussion - both sides have merit. In either case, this is a bikeshed discussion at this point. Can we please bring this discussion to a conclusion so we can go fix the nuclear reactor instead. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 13:45:42 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1522716A404 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:45:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1DA13C45B for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:45:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 7361EAE7; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:15:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:15:02 -0500 To: MQ Message-ID: <20070517131502.GA7450@soaustin.net> References: <86odknqvf3.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86wszah2ua.fsf@dwp.des.no> <86fy5wkim5.fsf@dwp.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A problem with the select(2) interface X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:45:42 -0000 On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 07:00:56PM +0800, MQ wrote: > What is yelling? Did I yelling? The convention is that uppcase => yelling. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 15:04:25 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B86216A402 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:04:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chadr@tes.net) Received: from houns2.airband.net (houns2.airband.net [63.133.132.11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D74813C480 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:04:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chadr@tes.net) Received: from chadr (r910-tes.westchase.nc.windchannel.com [208.44.167.243]) by houns2.airband.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id l4HEJtD29879 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:19:55 -0500 From: "Chad Riggsbee" To: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:21:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c7988e$ad453380$3505a8c0@chadr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal Subject: seeking Unix architect/Perm position X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:04:25 -0000 Hello, I am currently seeking a Senior Unix System Administrator / Architect .... 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Hiring Criteria - 8+ years of experience in UNIX systems administration, preferably with both Solaris and HP-UX. - Experience performing 1st, 2nd & 3rd level 24x7 production support. - Experience developing and implementing small to medium sized technology projects, including new technology evaluations. - Strong verbal and written communication skills. - Ability to create and maintain positive and professional business relationships with both internal associates and external customers. - Must be able to work effectively in a team environment. - Knowledge of the financial industry preferred. - Computer Science degree highly preferred Please email me if interested TES, The Employment Solution Senior Account Executive (919) 832-8900 x14 email- chadr@tes.net From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 20:45:35 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C382416A406 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 20:45:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail2.fluidhosting.com (mx24.fluidhosting.com [204.14.89.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5DA4B13C465 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 20:45:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 31004 invoked by uid 399); 17 May 2007 20:18:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ?192.168.0.4?) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 17 May 2007 20:18:53 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 Message-ID: <464CB8AB.6050404@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:18:51 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ivan Voras References: <20070512153532.GQ21795@elvis.mu.org> <63984.1178992555@critter.freebsd.dk> <20070513215442.GZ21795@elvis.mu.org> <46478C9A.9050807@fer.hr> <86lkfryjds.fsf@dwp.des.no> <46482AD2.7010700@fer.hr> In-Reply-To: <46482AD2.7010700@fer.hr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS DOWN X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 20:45:35 -0000 Ivan Voras wrote: > Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > >> It is wrong of the PHP authors to assume that all the world is GNU / >> Linux. > > Yes. > >> I see no reason not vindicate their mistakes. > > I do: these days I need to heavily justify using FreeBSD instead of > Linux, and "the applications you want to run don't actually work on > FreeBSD" is not a nice thing to say. It depends on your audience. > I feel that nowadays it's not a contest in popularity, it's damage > control phase. Another way to look at this is that a good portion of the existing FreeBSD userbase relies on our higher standards for things like this, and to break faith with them would be a bad thing. We are not interested in making FreeBSD more popular as a primary goal, we're interested in making it better as a primary goal, which will end up making it more popular. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection