From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 11:40:36 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4715B16A417 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:40:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lawrance@FreeBSD.org) Received: from pecan.exetel.com.au (pecan.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD8913C468 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:40:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lawrance@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 28.201.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.201.28] helo=[192.168.100.148]) by pecan.exetel.com.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Itglx-00049X-Mi for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:49:01 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <63E2DD8B-8E53-480A-ABC4-A59C2A49FD10@FreeBSD.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sam Lawrance Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:49:00 +1100 To: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Cc: Subject: Re: Vote 1 FreeBSD. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:40:36 -0000 On 18/11/2007, at 8:46 PM, Sam Lawrance wrote: > Australia is in the lead up to a federal election. > > I don't think this is a deciding factor between the two major > parties, but hey, who knows? :-) > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.labor.com.au > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.liberal.com.au > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.liberal.org.au Bitrot in the brain. That'll teach me to hand-transcribe! From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 11:40:37 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E4F16A468 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:40:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from boris@brooknet.com.au) Received: from pecan.exetel.com.au (pecan.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.17]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2E013C45B for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:40:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from boris@brooknet.com.au) Received: from 28.201.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.201.28] helo=[192.168.100.148]) by pecan.exetel.com.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Itgjk-00042S-Sp for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:46:45 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) To: chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: From: Sam Lawrance Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:46:43 +1100 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Vote 1 FreeBSD. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:40:37 -0000 Australia is in the lead up to a federal election. I don't think this is a deciding factor between the two major parties, but hey, who knows? :-) http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.labor.com.au http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.liberal.com.au From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 14:02:59 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E7516A417 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:02:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5151013C43E for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:02:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1ItkjX-0006tz-7A for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:02:47 +0000 Received: from esperance.zetnet.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with SMTP id lAIE2kfG002703 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:02:46 GMT Received: (qmail 66361 invoked by uid 1001); 18 Nov 2007 14:02:41 -0000 From: "Frank Shute" Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:02:41 +0000 To: Sam Lawrance Message-ID: <20071118140241.GA66301@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> References: <63E2DD8B-8E53-480A-ABC4-A59C2A49FD10@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <63E2DD8B-8E53-480A-ABC4-A59C2A49FD10@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:02:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vote 1 FreeBSD. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:02:59 -0000 On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 08:49:00PM +1100, Sam Lawrance wrote: > > > > >Australia is in the lead up to a federal election. > > > >I don't think this is a deciding factor between the two major > >parties, but hey, who knows? :-) > > > >http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.labor.com.au > >http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.liberal.com.au > > > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.liberal.org.au > > Bitrot in the brain. That'll teach me to hand-transcribe! > Good spot! I now officially recommend voting for the Labor party :) Liberal party candidates should be spat upon and abused for using Redmond's worst. The sad thing is we no longer get the uptime graphs from Netcraft. It used to be good advertising (IMHO) when FreeBSD monopolised the longest uptimes. Apparently, some timer changed in 5/6. Is it possible to fix the network stack so we have the uptimes recorded again? Or work with Netcraft to fashion some kludge? -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 18 17:07:39 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E6C16A419 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:07:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsdworld@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548D913C461 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:07:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsdworld@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so5551259pyb for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:07:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TWJj069GSjzLMk081YSYCc5xbWvhdAC0F4gpLJg9hLg=; b=mApFM/2xv0zt5mNlrlUW/R7Cjt/JM6v78wcFl5eFtN49JQPrIyXPrVPwD3yny+RNvYsFWd/pJmufaC3tU9aT+tKdGExh1R+uDzPgN6sxcbgowOUSjoUy+hUUJFuQ2a5LyrWbj0+Kjyr6hspQin7W+RdmYGHoll7OaoB9TccnHbU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=g/xK+mw0qBCgcLgzw5+WXcj+9tX7SmBXPIIyHymJFdnfHi6ttZa1ypV1OQ2xcz16qJJasVrtC8hOGOJ/TjzzfqEc3mNIqjYxwJHpBX9XZfWskbBkjpgr01YjQKx4ttIuP+1gNnaVlyd74gL3J7jOnqdz50z7gAPE00iIMwfifcw= Received: by 10.35.109.2 with SMTP id l2mr5024918pym.1195403899133; Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:38:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from Desktop.rochester.rr.com ( [74.74.228.251]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f55sm12312839pyh.2007.11.18.08.38.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:38:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4740B0CA.50204@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 16:38:18 -0500 From: Benjamin Adams User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071020) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Web site down X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:07:39 -0000 freebsd.org is down From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 20 09:15:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA7A16A421; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:15:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tataz@tataz.chchile.org) Received: from postfix1-g20.free.fr (postfix1-g20.free.fr [212.27.60.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40AD713C461; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:15:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tataz@tataz.chchile.org) Received: from smtp5-g19.free.fr (smtp5-g19.free.fr [212.27.42.35]) by postfix1-g20.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93C991E67BCB; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:53:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp5-g19.free.fr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4364D3F61B0; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:53:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from tatooine.tataz.chchile.org (tataz.chchile.org [82.233.239.98]) by smtp5-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF4433F61A5; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:53:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from obiwan.tataz.chchile.org (unknown [192.168.1.25]) by tatooine.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB9F9B497; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:52:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obiwan.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 850C8405B; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:52:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:52:03 +0100 From: Jeremie Le Hen To: Alexey Dokuchaev Message-ID: <20071120085203.GA61175@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> References: <516244.87930.qm@web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20071018194024.GB17865@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071018194024.GB17865@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RELENG_4 in production (was: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/nfsstat nfsstat.c) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:15:13 -0000 Hi Alexey, (Switched to -chat@, please Cc: me as I'm not subscribed :). On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 07:40:25PM +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 12:29:08PM -0700, Abdullah Ibn Hamad Al-Marri wrote: > > > From: Alexey Dokuchaev > > > > > > Thanks for supporting 4.X, that best FreeBSD around! > > > > > > ./danfe > > > > heh! not better than 7.x when it comes to SMP ;) > > 6.2 did not like my PIII desktop, whilst 5.5 did. 6.2-R does not like my > laptop because of HDA... With 6.2-S, suspend/resume kills my box. 4.11-S > works on one of my servers like a charm. And it would be forever. BTW, have you switched to pkgsrc for your RELENG_4? > Yes, I will debug and send patches, but still. freebsd-eol@FreeBSD.org might be a good place to do so. Regards, -- Jeremie Le Hen < jeremie at le-hen dot org >< ttz at chchile dot org > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 20 19:52:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A1E16A46B for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:52:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ehaupt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mx.critical.ch (mx.critical.ch [62.2.45.171]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F9213C509 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:52:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ehaupt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from beaver.home.critical.ch (77-57-39-107.dclient.hispeed.ch [77.57.39.107]) by mx.critical.ch (8.13.8/8.13.8/critical-1.0) with SMTP id lAKJUVGg097992 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:30:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from ehaupt@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:30:31 +0100 From: Emanuel Haupt To: chat@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: <20071120203031.078427aa.ehaupt@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.7 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mx.critical.ch [62.2.45.171]); Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:30:31 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.2/4855/Tue Nov 20 10:49:20 2007 on milkyway.critical.ch X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: bruteforce X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:52:14 -0000 Take a close look at the OS http://bruteforce.istheshit.net/ Emanuel From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 20 20:40:40 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACB816A417 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:40:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sequethin@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7960A13C461 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:40:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sequethin@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i29so499865wxd for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:40:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=YVfPEctkKdtoMrDEsFz8MK/2EHFNH8GozfsdeH+fvfk=; b=BLOwLmUp8zStrCO8qU0sShe73VVAm+GokyQEnZNhPA7bRVvjzQ9rRp0mW6DvnWr4hX57DZrvl+9xn427Mt1T48ksI0oqvrphrjce9P9rkXM+Xah9/G3YFhcyTcC0JxDGbMzIic8ONuZGClDcEYjWd/PWSbcg5SN4KEkHtkbgoVE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=ld0pvOkmsUdN1JK68IlRKqAkqsgy9+N4Wc4dHDz7tho0yffPnssOpdaDV1WxrA2zMyQAjwk1qRYxkpc7BaZjrhvYz7y1noug9dVXDdNVH1WmtNvCaXNxzSRHrI46jc1gtAVWTqRgFu+TUHahTzkY3GE3nzu8m13Gc6KP1jwGE0U= Received: by 10.90.75.10 with SMTP id x10mr4407545aga.1195589576915; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:12:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pos4.ocsny.com ( [204.107.76.229]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm3762438agd.2007.11.20.12.12.51 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:12:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <456FAD05-54A8-484F-85B1-A347571635B8@gmail.com> From: Michael Hernandez To: Emanuel Haupt In-Reply-To: <20071120203031.078427aa.ehaupt@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:12:49 -0500 References: <20071120203031.078427aa.ehaupt@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: bruteforce X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:40:40 -0000 On Nov 20, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Emanuel Haupt wrote: > Take a close look at the OS > > http://bruteforce.istheshit.net/ > > Emanuel > Obviously the kitten can sense moused running. --Mike H From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 21 03:15:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DBC16A417 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 03:15:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mx1.highperformance.net (dsl081-163-122.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.163.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5286813C457 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 03:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from w16.stradamotorsports.com (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) by mx1.highperformance.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAL31Rj7052113 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Message-ID: <47439F88.1050606@highperformance.net> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:01:28 -0800 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070922) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20071120203031.078427aa.ehaupt@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20071120203031.078427aa.ehaupt@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=2.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_05 autolearn=failed version=3.1.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on s4.stradamotorsports.com Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bruteforce X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 03:15:05 -0000 Emanuel Haupt wrote: > Take a close look at the OS > > http://bruteforce.istheshit.net/ > > Take a look at the hardware. I wonder how many other FreeBSD user run Shuttles/SFF for their boxen. There appear to be at two of them in the picture. For that matter I wonder if unix-ites are more likely to run SFF computers. My Shuttle ST61G4 has been my favoritest computer I have ever owned. It's pretty quiet. It's pretty small. It runs my games fairly well for a 4 year old. Later, Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 21 08:56:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC9E616A417 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zafer@aydogan.de) Received: from rn-out-0102.google.com (rn-out-0910.google.com [64.233.170.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE6B13C45D for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zafer@aydogan.de) Received: by rn-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s42so1426202rnb for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:56:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.57.5 with SMTP id f5mr1153473yba.1195633847601; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.202.1 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:30:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <274190120711210030l24bf5904ked1bac47596703f7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:30:47 +0100 From: "Zafer Aydogan" To: "Jason C. Wells" In-Reply-To: <47439F88.1050606@highperformance.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20071120203031.078427aa.ehaupt@FreeBSD.org> <47439F88.1050606@highperformance.net> Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bruteforce X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:24 -0000 Look at the keyboard. Looks like a Silicon Graphics keyboard, which is usually shipped with SGI (Indy) Workstations. Zafer. 2007/11/21, Jason C. Wells : > Emanuel Haupt wrote: > > Take a close look at the OS > > > > http://bruteforce.istheshit.net/ > > > > > Take a look at the hardware. I wonder how many other FreeBSD user run > Shuttles/SFF for their boxen. There appear to be at two of them in the > picture. For that matter I wonder if unix-ites are more likely to run > SFF computers. > > My Shuttle ST61G4 has been my favoritest computer I have ever owned. > It's pretty quiet. It's pretty small. It runs my games fairly well for > a 4 year old. > > Later, > Jason > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 21 14:20:09 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C7016A477 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:20:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fgaughan@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.244]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA8A13C45D for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:20:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fgaughan@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so509338anc for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 06:20:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=rEV9UCV6phm7lLgHhTdUnwxttabCcz4FTY1ZnBx75CY=; b=auwZvj1v1aaJTkDlnDwpkJI+FJI+t7RcKGXtmCa6M+wDup1Qd3cynEZ47TEyvPrYQEtG6M9GDykoEXilbqiRa7NuOBc4l8dg+VY9XFdMN6gf73qm/MJtIUfqewquH6T+hpPfCpC1KyHTtTDp07cLLAKeeBCCElPV/+Eep2LQkAE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=f/dX4Y6UN8MMCJOe/uFH6meTP+IyFzkpCEMCyg4tDsjZTMjYA9cI4PbhCCnjtzYiHj2e3If/Fk1Uax3eLGI735+aFz7hT46haJTXyInmMyax6gU+W5Dy+86XGSCU0nbG2xXG4Y4jzFOuIH9qZfAc6UxlPB1V0k7GmQTaUuFILyc= Received: by 10.100.247.14 with SMTP id u14mr9815344anh.1195654037834; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 06:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.113.20 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 06:07:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:07:17 +0000 From: "Fintan Gaughan" To: chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: new member X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:20:09 -0000 New here and writing quick as I am at work...:-( I have an 80gb hard drive pc and I want it to dual boot between Ubuntu and PCBSD. Its a long time since I have done this but I am at lost to why I can't get to the 2 to work. I may overlooked something obvious Its not often I do partition a hard drive as my other pc is xp and Debian which is working to my satisfaction and the spare pc will be ubuntu and PCBSD. You may wonder why ubuntu as my family now uses ubuntu and somtimes when they ask question over the phone I can see what they are talking about or if they are having problems I can recreate it on my pc. and now to the bit why PCBSD... I am impressed! been a DestopBSD for a while and now installed PCBSD and packages are more upto date than Linux. yes I can configure make and install .. but do I want to be doing this all the time when you have the excelant upto date PCBSD :-) I must admit when it comes to partition hard drive I have done it prevously but still don't get it right (but then again its not everyday I do this) first of all I split the partition using GPARTED and did a swap partition for linux I first installed PCBSD and then Ubuntu. For some reason Ubunto only boot up so that suggest to me it over wrote PCBSD boot manager... then I installed GAG, THE Graphical Boot Manager that abled me to boot into PCBSD but not UBUNTU it cant cant the boot partition. I did all the above in reverse order installed ubuntu and then PCBSD and only can boot into PCBSD.. Should I be posting in UBUNTU forum or am I better off posting in here, hope someone post a step by step or a link for further reading. Regards, Fintan -- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 21 17:57:58 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943E616A419 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from cenn-smtp.mc.mpls.visi.com (cenn.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F23513C458 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from mail.tcbug.org (mail.tcbug.org [208.42.70.163]) by cenn-smtp.mc.mpls.visi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F77281C1; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:57:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from build64.tcbug.org (unknown [208.42.70.167]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.tcbug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEFB410AA86A; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:57:55 -0600 (CST) From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:57:50 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <20071120203031.078427aa.ehaupt@FreeBSD.org> <47439F88.1050606@highperformance.net> <274190120711210030l24bf5904ked1bac47596703f7@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <274190120711210030l24bf5904ked1bac47596703f7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1621922.xlnjRSmaXK"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200711211157.55524.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , Zafer Aydogan Subject: Re: bruteforce X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:57:58 -0000 --nextPart1621922.xlnjRSmaXK Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 21 November 2007 02:30:47 am Zafer Aydogan wrote: > Look at the keyboard. Looks like a Silicon Graphics keyboard, which is > usually shipped with SGI (Indy) Workstations. > > Zafer. > Indy's were more likely to ship with the slab granite keyboard, I can't=20 remember when exactly they changed over. It was in the Indigo2 era that yo= u=20 could get either the slab or the new curved style. While that is an SGI keyboard, they are strictly PS/2 compatable, and the O= S=20 is clearly FreeBSD/i386, so it's just a case of using an old PS/2 SGI=20 keyboard on a regular PC. =2D-=20 Thanks, Josh Paetzel PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5A8C 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB --nextPart1621922.xlnjRSmaXK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBHRHGjJvkB8SevrssRAlWDAJ42F03Jr72NWLRyDG1LqK+FLa7l1wCfdlvq NJfk2FAs+A03xK/OjPn1ZXE= =0drs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1621922.xlnjRSmaXK-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 21 18:12:36 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8DAD16A417 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:12:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ulf@alameda.net) Received: from mail.alameda.net (mail.alameda.net [194.55.105.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D61813C478 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:12:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ulf@alameda.net) Received: by mail.alameda.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 404DF33D38; Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:47:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:47:02 -0800 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: Zafer Aydogan Message-ID: <20071121174701.GY1153@evil.alameda.net> References: <20071120203031.078427aa.ehaupt@FreeBSD.org> <47439F88.1050606@highperformance.net> <274190120711210030l24bf5904ked1bac47596703f7@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <274190120711210030l24bf5904ked1bac47596703f7@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.3-STABLE X-ANI-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ANI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ANI-MailScanner-From: ulf@alameda.net Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bruteforce X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:12:36 -0000 On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 09:30:47AM +0100, Zafer Aydogan wrote: > Look at the keyboard. Looks like a Silicon Graphics keyboard, which is > usually shipped with SGI (Indy) Workstations. Those SGI keyboards were made by NMB, who also made them for SUN and Compaq. I love them, I use one right now to type this. Jameco in the SF Bay Area used to sell overstock of them like 8 years back and I bought like 20 back then. > > Zafer. > > 2007/11/21, Jason C. Wells : > > Emanuel Haupt wrote: > > > Take a close look at the OS > > > > > > http://bruteforce.istheshit.net/ > > > > > > > > Take a look at the hardware. I wonder how many other FreeBSD user run > > Shuttles/SFF for their boxen. There appear to be at two of them in the > > picture. For that matter I wonder if unix-ites are more likely to run > > SFF computers. > > > > My Shuttle ST61G4 has been my favoritest computer I have ever owned. > > It's pretty quiet. It's pretty small. It runs my games fairly well for > > a 4 year old. > > > > Later, > > Jason > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://www.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 04:11:21 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A5216A418 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:11:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dkelly@HiWAAY.net) Received: from smtp.knology.net (smtp.knology.net [24.214.63.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E25D913C447 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:11:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dkelly@HiWAAY.net) Received: (qmail 24681 invoked by uid 0); 23 Nov 2007 03:43:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.187?) (216.186.148.249) by smtp7.knology.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2007 03:43:18 -0000 In-Reply-To: <31AE442CCBC1094ABC40CE85B0149F06468CE8@MAIL1.registry.otago.ac.nz> References: <31AE442CCBC1094ABC40CE85B0149F06468CE8@MAIL1.registry.otago.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Kelly Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:43:20 -0600 To: "Brent Jones" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Cc: freebsd-questions , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:11:21 -0000 (Moved to freebsd-chat where it belongs.) On Nov 22, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Brent Jones wrote: > I for one prefer top posting, as usually I have read a particular > thread > enough times that I like to cut to the chase and read the new input > without having to scroll down, sometimes navigating an endless nesting > of >>> Top posting is the worst format to use for reply. Close 2nd worst is the no-trim bottom post. If new content doesn't start somewhere very close to the top then the sender failed to create a message worth reading. By trimming and inserting comments in the proper place one creates a semblance to the alternating back and forth of live conversation. > For me, reading through top posted replies saves time and > effort. If I happened to miss something in the conversation I can > scroll down to find it. Reading from bottom up is painful. Even more painful after a couple of generations the added quoting and occasional wrapping get thrown in. There is no excuse to resend the entire thread with every new contribution, especially when dealing with a mailing list. If you thought the prior messages were worth keeping then you kept them. Else you can go online and find them. The sender bears some responsibility for every word sent, or re-sent. One should never send a message one has not fully read and proofread. Top-posters almost never review the bulk they send else they wouldn't send the unreadable junk. Or at least I'm giving benefit of doubt that they would not. > Anyone else feel the same? No. Heck no. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net ======================================================================== Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 09:32:06 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE58916A417 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:32:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fgaughan@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.249]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9EB13C44B for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:32:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fgaughan@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so640688anc for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 01:32:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=KkZ8Q/Rukh2ttxqawY4HtmIUVWo7U4bd9yNTT3quod8=; b=meeMdZbzHuHI5fk9Ix1UrIapyU8Mkozh4eaysW0WUErvCx1WIw1PP+tgpprADjkmcC2yXsdxRJcJXXPnMUQQmeHeThUQJu8HQlF5u78GTBisJlFRP2gU/sUpUb9h93EJ3gc2ub+8oAXkz4sKLYC7FtTxvN94ctZT/IL1YPxXX1c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=CpdogxRJhP33Q0PkQd4hk4XyL75ziymQoA5dNgPUd8V4oACW93UxxCkT7gOwC4vZsBVNGwJnoRH/9fjk/+Ec/Oe3UygjRIrbsNpir0jQ8Jf42EJ//q691CURUatVyvjzcsEYks3g+md6JYp9Js1QHxb9G9eLj4J+3bO3k4K2rYg= Received: by 10.100.242.20 with SMTP id p20mr13552306anh.1195808631278; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 01:03:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.113.20 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 01:03:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:03:51 +0000 From: "Fintan Gaughan" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <31AE442CCBC1094ABC40CE85B0149F06468CE8@MAIL1.registry.otago.ac.nz> Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:32:06 -0000 Well i am top posting cos gmail says so :-) >From what i have been told that news group you don't top post but in mail list such as this one its ok to top post. Correct me if i am wrong but you can configure newsgroup reader to scroll to bottom or post where with email clients you have to scroll down to each one. Fintan -- My Blog http://www.finllfixit.co.uk/ On 23/11/2007, David Kelly wrote: > (Moved to freebsd-chat where it belongs.) > > On Nov 22, 2007, at 3:22 PM, Brent Jones wrote: > > > I for one prefer top posting, as usually I have read a particular > > thread > > enough times that I like to cut to the chase and read the new input > > without having to scroll down, sometimes navigating an endless nesting > > of >>> > > Top posting is the worst format to use for reply. Close 2nd worst is > the no-trim bottom post. > > If new content doesn't start somewhere very close to the top then the > sender failed to create a message worth reading. By trimming and > inserting comments in the proper place one creates a semblance to the > alternating back and forth of live conversation. > > > For me, reading through top posted replies saves time and > > effort. If I happened to miss something in the conversation I can > > scroll down to find it. > > Reading from bottom up is painful. Even more painful after a couple > of generations the added quoting and occasional wrapping get thrown in. > > There is no excuse to resend the entire thread with every new > contribution, especially when dealing with a mailing list. If you > thought the prior messages were worth keeping then you kept them. > Else you can go online and find them. > > The sender bears some responsibility for every word sent, or re-sent. > One should never send a message one has not fully read and proofread. > Top-posters almost never review the bulk they send else they wouldn't > send the unreadable junk. Or at least I'm giving benefit of doubt > that they would not. > > > Anyone else feel the same? > > No. Heck no. > > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net > ======================================================================== > Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 11:12:40 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C7E16A417 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:12:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2001:1b20:1:3::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6107513C457 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:12:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lANBCWrp004570; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:12:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lANBCW1P004569; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:12:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:12:32 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200711231112.lANBCW1P004569@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fgaughan@gmail.com In-Reply-To: X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:12:38 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fgaughan@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:12:40 -0000 Fintan Gaughan wrote: > Well i am top posting cos gmail says so :-) gmail does not force you to top-post. (If it did, I would propose to ban gmail addresses from the mailing lists.) > From what i have been told that news group you don't top post but in > mail list such as this one its ok to top post. There's no such difference between news groups and mailing lists, at least from a user perspective. In fact, I do read the FreeBSD mailing lists via an NNTP gateway which stores them as news groups. I'm using a newsreader client to read them (ports/news/tin) instead of an email client. > Correct me if i am wrong but you can configure newsgroup reader to > scroll to bottom or post where with email clients you have to scroll > down to each one. I'm sorry but that's nonsense. It depends entirely on the kind of client software you're using, and how it is configured. It's _not_ a newsgroup vs. email thing. Apart from that, you're supposed to delete those parts of the quote that are irrelevant to your reply. You should keep only those parts that are required to understand the context. If you adhere to that rule, then the quoted text is small enough that having to scroll down is not a real issue. Those people who do not top-post, but don't delete any quoted text in a reasonable way either, aren't doing it right either. Normally you should _not_ see multiple pages of quoted text with tons of indentation. That's almost as bad as top-posting. In ancient times, everybody was posting correctly (i.e. with minimal but sufficient quoting, and writing the reply below). I guess because it was the most natural thing to do it that way, both for the person writing it and for the people reading it. The problem with top- posting started to appear when certain graphical clients started to become widely used which put the cursor at the top above the fully quote text, and users were too lazy to move down, delete irrelevant parts of the quote and write the answers below. Instead they just typed their text right away and klicked the "send" button. For example, almost the entire full quote that you you had below your reply was completely useless, confusing and a waste of space and bandwidth. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "In My Egoistical Opinion, most people's C programs should be indented six feet downward and covered with dirt." -- Blair P. Houghton From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 12:46:42 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4536716A469 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:46:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ama@ugr.es) Received: from mail3.ugr.es (mail3.ugr.es [150.214.35.31]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCD613C4DB for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:46:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ama@ugr.es) Received: from mail3.ugr.es (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.ugr.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC76F5B96B; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:23:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp2.ugr.es (smtp2.ugr.es [150.214.20.70]) by mail3.ugr.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76525B85D; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:23:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from darwin.ugr.es (darwin.ugr.es [150.214.61.183]) by smtp2.ugr.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E093C801; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:23:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from ama by darwin.ugr.es with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1IvXZC-0008KH-00; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:23:30 +0100 Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:23:30 +0100 From: Angel Martin Alganza To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fgaughan@gmail.com Message-ID: <20071123122330.GA31793@darwin.ugr.es> References: <200711231112.lANBCW1P004569@lurza.secnetix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200711231112.lANBCW1P004569@lurza.secnetix.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Sender: Angel Martin Alganza Cc: Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:46:42 -0000 --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 12:12:32PM +0100, Oliver Fromme wrote: =20 > In fact, I do read the FreeBSD mailing lists via an NNTP > gateway which stores them as news groups. I'm using a That really great! Is it a public gateway? Could you please let me know how to access it (which newsgroup and news server is it? Thank you, =C1ngel --=20 Angel Martin Alganza Tel +34 958 248 926 Departamento de Genetica Fax +34 958 244 073 Universidad de Granada mailto:ama@ugr.es C/ Fuentenueva s/n http://www.ugr.es/~ama/ E-18071 Granada, Spain JabberID alganza@jabber.org PGP Public key: http://www.ugr.es/~ama/ama-pgp-key 3EB2 967A 9404 6585 7086 8811 2CEC 2F81 9341 E591 ------------------------------------------------------ () ASCII Ribbon Campaign - http://www.asciiribbon.org/ /\ Against all HTML e-mail and proprietary attachments Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments http://linux.sgms-centre.com/advocacy/no-ms-office.php --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHRsZBLOwvgZNB5ZERAgyGAJ9ED9wAtlnUSfO6E+NLAJfEFYyahACgwyzL WWyo/xtxaRImkJ6xA7JKb6A= =Lzkh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 17:04:40 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CB816A46D for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:04:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2001:1b20:1:3::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A251C13C442 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:04:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lANH4XuF018828; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:04:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lANH4Utm018827; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:04:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:04:30 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200711231704.lANH4Utm018827@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, ama@ugr.es In-Reply-To: <20071123122330.GA31793@darwin.ugr.es> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:04:38 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Mailing lists via NNTP gateway (was Re: top posting (off-topic)) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, ama@ugr.es List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:04:40 -0000 Angel Martin Alganza wrote: > On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 12:12:32PM +0100, Oliver Fromme wrote: > > In fact, I do read the FreeBSD mailing lists via an NNTP > > gateway which stores them as news groups. I'm using a > > That really great! > > Is it a public gateway? Could you please let me know how to access > it (which newsgroup and news server is it? I'm sorry, it's a non-public gateway that I'm running on one of my company's server. But I've just had a look at the newsgroup list of the usenet server that I'm using. It contains a bunch of newsgroups named like the freebsd mailing lists, so I assume that these are coming from public gateways. They're probably one-way (i.e. read-only), i.e. you'd have to mail directly to the list if you want to reply. (It's also possible that they have a moderator script that feeds news postings back to the mailing lists, but I haven't tried that.) These are the names of the newsgroups: muc.lists.freebsd.* (e.g. muc.lists.freebsd.chat) sol.lists.freebsd.* (e.g. sol.lists.freebsd.chat) I assume those are two separate gateways. Maybe your usenet provider offers at least one of them. If they claim to have a "full feed", they should have both. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "A language that doesn't have everything is actually easier to program in than some that do." -- Dennis M. Ritchie From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 23 18:39:02 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B5116A417 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:39:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carlsonmark@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.234]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D1213C45D for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:39:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carlsonmark@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l8so2496247nzf for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:38:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Qb5hvBqdUBZgIar8VeVIuPgEBlrFKnjhhNljT5W8thY=; b=kHlLOEiZmHHV4kOi6hc6OR3oa2Wz7dlRHsuwad6gqulpDxhCsnHrylw4/ipjVWllbyQNAB1g5O4Qh6yvICUapmYHoqUSI8C7gZPvSkyNZCtAygmypzHFOxVMez0n5TVKw3GBePnTncqpcTPP05Pb3CfqC125Vt3tvlSyWVL4UbU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=sSeyIrQtoSthfKxdhJtRVOzl6jCcydbo0W0iqGjNd/3+O0X5Ery8l1c1eentCr+C7SqqJ/XlRAag7H8JhiBgVD7GSoJ+e7L66rOfBZ4oa1YSpYQ5KSd9Q6MK3KS9ZUIEkP+nDr3o9CwDUK3hYkUQXdQ0C96yBXMsXBr+3/0ZmqQ= Received: by 10.142.213.9 with SMTP id l9mr1549145wfg.1195841390474; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:09:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.112.12 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:09:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:09:50 -0700 From: "Mark Carlson" To: "Fintan Gaughan" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <31AE442CCBC1094ABC40CE85B0149F06468CE8@MAIL1.registry.otago.ac.nz> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:39:02 -0000 On 11/23/07, Fintan Gaughan wrote: > Well i am top posting cos gmail says so :-) > > >From what i have been told that news group you don't top post but in > mail list such as this one its ok to top post. > Correct me if i am wrong but you can configure newsgroup reader to > scroll to bottom or post where with email clients you have to scroll > down to each one. Rubbish. Gmail may passively encourage top-posting, because if you use Gmail, you don't notice one way or the other (auto-hiding "quoted" text) until a conversation starts to wrap. You should use proper email etiquette no matter what client you are using, whether it is on a newsgroup or a mailing list. By not doing so you have two consequences: 1. It takes too much work to read your email, so it may (and will) be ignored by many people who would otherwise have been interested. 2. You are wasting the time of anyone who chooses to read your email. This has a cumulative effect, so that in the future, your emails will be ignored. -Mark C.