From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 25 19:21:52 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC7A16A421 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:21:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7742313C47E for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:21:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from [84.92.156.191] (helo=jayton.plus.com) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1IwMk7-0007wY-U5 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:02:12 +0000 Message-ID: <4749C6B2.9030707@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:02:10 +0000 From: Jayton Garnett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071120) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Beryl & Gnome 2.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:21:52 -0000 Hi all, Just wondering if anyone has had luck with Beryl and Gnome 2.20 (both from latest ports) ? I've been at it for over a week now and for the life of me, can not get the application window borders showing - i've trawled google for help tried many many things... So my question is... is it just broke under FreeBSD? Cheers Jayton From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 02:09:16 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BAD516A41A for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:09:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from outbound-mail-69.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-69.bluehost.com [69.89.21.29]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9338A13C47E for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:09:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (qmail 28633 invoked by uid 0); 26 Nov 2007 01:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box183.bluehost.com) (69.89.25.183) by mailproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2007 01:42:27 -0000 Received: from c-24-9-123-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.123.251] helo=demeter.hydra) by box183.bluehost.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IwSzT-0000b1-8c for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:42:27 -0700 Received: from demeter.hydra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lAQ1h2Vl029805 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:43:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: (from ren@localhost) by demeter.hydra (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lAQ1h2o2029804 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:43:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) X-Authentication-Warning: demeter.hydra: ren set sender to perrin@apotheon.com using -f Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:43:02 -0700 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071126014302.GC29622@demeter.hydra> References: <31AE442CCBC1094ABC40CE85B0149F06468CE8@MAIL1.registry.otago.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {737:box183.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.net} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 24.9.123.251 authed with apotheon.com} X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box183.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [737 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - apotheon.com Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:09:16 -0000 On Thu, Nov 22, 2007 at 09:43:20PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > > Reading from bottom up is painful. Even more painful after a couple > of generations the added quoting and occasional wrapping get thrown in. . . . and even *more* painful to people using software like screen readers. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Sen. Dick Durbin, D-IL, to an RIAA executive: "Are you headed to junior high schools to round up the usual suspects?" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 09:05:03 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE0B16A417 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-chat@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F3313C447 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-chat@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IwYlK-0005ZO-NK for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:52:14 +0000 Received: from mkb-128-158-209-82.3.cust.bredband2.com ([82.209.128.158]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:52:14 +0000 Received: from mc by mkb-128-158-209-82.3.cust.bredband2.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:52:14 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Michael Widerkrantz Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 08:46:26 +0100 Organization: Temple of the Moby Hack Lines: 21 Message-ID: <868x4ltpnx.fsf@tim.hack.org> References: <200711231112.lANBCW1P004569@lurza.secnetix.de> <20071123122330.GA31793@darwin.ugr.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: mkb-128-158-209-82.3.cust.bredband2.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZM5PQLjAtJ4Cy8CDLJ25BUmuBKs= Sender: news Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:05:03 -0000 Angel Martin Alganza writes: > On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 12:12:32PM +0100, Oliver Fromme wrote: > >> In fact, I do read the FreeBSD mailing lists via an NNTP >> gateway which stores them as news groups. I'm using a > > That really great! > > Is it a public gateway? Could you please let me know how to access > it (which newsgroup and news server is it? I'm also reading the FreeBSD lists by connecting to a News server over NNTP. I use Gmane, a public NNTP gateway for mailing lists. See: http://gmane.org/ This list is gmane.os.freebsd.chat. -- Michael "MC" Widerkrantz, http://hack.org/mc/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 09:25:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA64716A41A for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:25:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (unsane-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:1f1::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DAD13C45A for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:25:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Received: from prawn.unsane.co.uk (150.117-84-212.staticip.namesco.net [212.84.117.150]) (authenticated bits=0) by unsane.co.uk (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lAQ9PXoP011967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:25:34 GMT (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <474A90F3.7030205@unsane.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:25:07 +0000 From: Vince User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jayton Garnett References: <4749C6B2.9030707@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4749C6B2.9030707@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Beryl & Gnome 2.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:25:12 -0000 Jayton Garnett wrote: > Hi all, > > Just wondering if anyone has had luck with Beryl and Gnome 2.20 (both > from latest ports) ? > I've been at it for over a week now and for the life of me, can not get > the application window borders showing - i've trawled google for help > tried many many things.. Sounds like you mean the windows decorations. once you have beryl running, in a terminal window run gtk-window-decorator or if you have installed emerald run emerald. I'd advise moving to compiz-fusion as beryl isnt supported or developed anymore. . > So my question is... is it just broke under FreeBSD? Didnt use to be when i used beryl but it could be now i guess. Vince > > Cheers > Jayton > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 09:37:14 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9143B16A468 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:37:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fgaughan@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.251]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EFD613C478 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:37:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fgaughan@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so117994anc for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:37:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=mdRi0O3+qV7Ztaz2HhZH1bO8Fpw6GzvJGf1qb+iNVwM=; b=wE19bPfLacU5MifLev3FntqhFnZ9hkbgrJ39XXvSQNT4p1KHcBeuEZYHgK1RaG2G6DDPgzc8TJeiZFLCZ/6p2cTJt+HSppCfT4qLuVIG1OauZw+uqCm6kcNHz9LToy6azM1RD8snStx7YqGfa5rlRohQU0R92g/mXvXj3Tt8VQM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FzZXCYmC8Uc4SY0JotbmX/jCiKXO+cFl0ZxTeNMOFAfGQ7tQXkl6DuC1vlLfOQ/0XBuIkJ8tkO0eWpaRJBMOrzrtkXP6NbhhCj6SIitlBac7UcbjLj7v+jYH6JQNjwHq9eaHab5Ve9vzvHVrkFch0n+p2RRI9HnQlOZLQQBQG58= Received: by 10.100.7.11 with SMTP id 11mr3448209ang.1196069827038; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:37:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.113.20 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 01:37:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:37:06 +0000 From: "Fintan Gaughan" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200711231112.lANBCW1P004569@lurza.secnetix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200711231112.lANBCW1P004569@lurza.secnetix.de> Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:37:14 -0000 Oliver , my post in between :-) On 23/11/2007, Oliver Fromme wrote: > Fintan Gaughan wrote: > > Well i am top posting cos gmail says so :-) > > gmail does not force you to top-post. (If it did, I would > propose to ban gmail addresses from the mailing lists.) Go ahead , when replying it goes straight to the top.. how ever using greasemonkey enabled you are not forced to top post. > > > From what i have been told that news group you don't top post but in > > mail list such as this one its ok to top post. > > There's no such difference between news groups and mailing > lists, at least from a user perspective. To be honest using Mutt now that gmail enabled imap its much easier to post in between or bottom post. But when using gmail from web its easier to read top post. > In fact, I do read the FreeBSD mailing lists via an NNTP > gateway which stores them as news groups. I'm using a > newsreader client to read them (ports/news/tin) instead > of an email client. > > > Correct me if i am wrong but you can configure newsgroup reader to > > scroll to bottom or post where with email clients you have to scroll > > down to each one. > > I'm sorry but that's nonsense. It depends entirely on > the kind of client software you're using, and how it is > configured. It's _not_ a newsgroup vs. email thing. yes i agree with software using although i have never posted to a newsgroup using the website but i would be suprised the default is top post. > Apart from that, you're supposed to delete those parts > of the quote that are irrelevant to your reply. You > should keep only those parts that are required to > understand the context. If you adhere to that rule, > then the quoted text is small enough that having to > scroll down is not a real issue. > > Those people who do not top-post, but don't delete any > quoted text in a reasonable way either, aren't doing it > right either. Normally you should _not_ see multiple > pages of quoted text with tons of indentation. That's > almost as bad as top-posting. > > In ancient times, everybody was posting correctly (i.e. > with minimal but sufficient quoting, and writing the > reply below). I guess because it was the most natural > thing to do it that way, both for the person writing it > and for the people reading it. The problem with top- > posting started to appear when certain graphical clients > started to become widely used which put the cursor at > the top above the fully quote text, and users were too > lazy to move down, delete irrelevant parts of the quote > and write the answers below. Instead they just typed > their text right away and klicked the "send" button. > > For example, almost the entire full quote that you you > had below your reply was completely useless, confusing > and a waste of space and bandwidth. > > Best regards > Oliver > Fair enough Oliver, but to be honest it does not bother me anyway way, but how ever if there is a rule about top posting then i won't do it. But i am not going to lose sleep over this ... Fintan From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 13:52:47 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA8116A469 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:52:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04F913C46B for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:52:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Iwdat-0000iW-V8 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:01:47 +0000 Received: from esperance.zetnet.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with SMTP id lAQD1lWk012447 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:01:47 GMT Received: (qmail 85252 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Nov 2007 13:01:42 -0000 From: "Frank Shute" Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:01:42 +0000 To: "eBoundHost: Artur" Message-ID: <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: "eBoundHost: Artur" , Frank Shute , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:01:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Frank Shute , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:52:47 -0000 On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > >PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting > >& rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the > >wrong mailing list. > > My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted > to a list before. That's OK but what isn't OK is to take somebody elses post & selectively edit it when quoting from it, like you have done to my post. You also failed to address most of my points. > > >>Learn to > >>moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good > >>to > >>others. > > > >Nonsense. Freedom is about the right to voice disagreement with > >others amongst other things. > > Do you even notice the irony in what you said? Artur, it was meant to be ironic :) I haven't got the right to stop top posting no more than you have. And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" by A.Huxley. Follow-ups to chat&freebsd.org please. Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 16:30:06 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A12816A46C for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:30:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from artur@eboundhost.com) Received: from em.eboundhost.com (em.eboundhost.com [65.91.249.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E7513C4FD for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from artur@eboundhost.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by em.eboundhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951494C888E; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:04:55 -0600 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.921 tagged_above=-10 required=6.6 tests=[AWL=0.819, BAYES_50=0.001, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from em.eboundhost.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (em.eboundhost.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X5Y07JVrdaN8; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:04:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from mobility (adsl-75-11-83-244.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net [75.11.83.244]) by em.eboundhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1824C8588; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:04:46 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> From: "eBoundHost: Artur" To: "Frank Shute" References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:05:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:30:06 -0000 > On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >> >> >PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting >> >& rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the >> >wrong mailing list. >> >> My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted >> to a list before. > > That's OK but what isn't OK is to take somebody elses post & > selectively edit it when quoting from it, like you have done to my > post. > > You also failed to address most of my points. Frank, No offense, but who has time to go through all points of every post and respond. There was much said here but i want to keep this post on topic. > >> >> >>Learn to >> >>moderate yourselves, this is what "freedom" is all based on, being good >> >>to >> >>others. >> > >> >Nonsense. Freedom is about the right to voice disagreement with >> >others amongst other things. >> >> Do you even notice the irony in what you said? > > Artur, it was meant to be ironic :) I haven't got the right to stop > top posting no more than you have. > My apologies, I'm reading everything as an attack now a days. :-) > And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD > material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain > artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. > Two points 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad in front of non-users. 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we remove his name from the website: (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. People who come accross this wording will not stop to think about all the deep philosophical reasons why the text needs to be there to protect freedoms. All they will see is that we seemingly support Hitler. Why don't we have other names controversial during our times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? > Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his > henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human > condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" > by A.Huxley. This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. > Follow-ups to chat&freebsd.org please. > Done and done. Best regards, Artur From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 17:18:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C582916A418 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:18:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from LoN_Kamikaze@gmx.de) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B09013C468 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:17:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from LoN_Kamikaze@gmx.de) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 26 Nov 2007 16:51:19 -0000 Received: from nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (EHLO mobileKamikaze.norad) [129.13.72.169] by mail.gmx.net (mp018) with SMTP; 26 Nov 2007 17:51:19 +0100 X-Authenticated: #5465401 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18wldQFUrgwdRWx8MxGAbogDXSw+aufTDzbJ9W8QA 9ljHqmNl+LVvb1 Message-ID: <474AF981.3080709@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:51:13 +0100 From: Dominic Fandrey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071117) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eBoundHost: Artur References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> In-Reply-To: <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: Frank Shute , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:18:00 -0000 eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying > to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if > that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is > that we remove his name from the website: > (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to > innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and > unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of > insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. > ... Quote from the linked website: > If an entry offends more than a couple of FreeBSD committers and does not > contain any objective poignant historical reference, the entry should be in > the offensive file. I'm not a freebsd committer, but I do feel offended by Hitler quotes (being German that is understandable, I think). And it's unthinkable for me to put anything he said anywhere else but into offensive. Just by being his words a quote is put into an offensive (and not amusing) context. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 17:23:18 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2452216A41A for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:23:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from artur@eboundhost.com) Received: from em.eboundhost.com (em.eboundhost.com [65.91.249.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB4D013C4E3 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:23:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from artur@eboundhost.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by em.eboundhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8FA4C8890; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:23:20 -0600 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.827 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.827 tagged_above=-10 required=6.6 tests=[AWL=0.725, BAYES_50=0.001, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from em.eboundhost.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (em.eboundhost.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kKK7wifp45wt; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:23:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from mobility (adsl-75-11-83-244.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net [75.11.83.244]) by em.eboundhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC464C8888; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:23:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <005e01c83051$10e61ee0$6d00a8c0@mobility> From: "eBoundHost: Artur" To: "Reid Linnemann" References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> <474AFC8B.3080608@cs.okstate.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:23:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Cc: FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:23:18 -0000 > I can understand your point that you'd like the reference to be less > specific ("don't put something in the offensive list because you find > the source offensive"), but at this point the motivation still seems to > be "I'm scared of reading 'Hitler'", and because of that I am opposed to > changing the page. Quite frankly, the man's been dead for over fifty > years. I think we can safely mention his name with reasonable assurance > that he won't jump out of a dark alley and boogeyman us to death. You're missing the point. This is about the fact that this content is not appropriate for the page its listed on, not about any kind of hitlerphobia. If there was an explanation that we're all for freedom of voice and that even hitlers quotes will be acceptable, that would be fine. but instead all we have is that "exceptable content: - hitlers quotes" no explanation, no commentary. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 17:33:08 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2AD716A418 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:33:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lreid@cs.okstate.edu) Received: from a.cs.okstate.edu (a.cs.okstate.edu [139.78.113.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D0113C457 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:33:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lreid@cs.okstate.edu) Received: from [172.18.0.232] (showcase.tulsatech.org [70.168.226.150]) by a.cs.okstate.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A91154EB3; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:05:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <474AFC8B.3080608@cs.okstate.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:04:11 -0600 From: Reid Linnemann User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070926) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eBoundHost@cs.okstate.edu:Artur References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> In-Reply-To: <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:33:08 -0000 Written by eBoundHost: Artur on 11/26/07 10:05>> > This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my > grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put > her name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not > appropriate. Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. I'll bite once. The reason your grandmother's name is not there is not because of appropriateness, it is because of _pertinence_. She's apparently not historically important, nor is she historically controversial. Hitler as an example is quite obviously very pertinent, given the widespread post WWII paranoid censorship fever that deems anything related to Hitler, Nazism, and even to some extent Germany itself to be controversial and thus taboo and off-limits, regardless of content, and that this fever has already specifically reared its head in the fortune file's history causing a similar bikeshed argument that wound up in the core team's intervention. I can understand your point that you'd like the reference to be less specific ("don't put something in the offensive list because you find the source offensive"), but at this point the motivation still seems to be "I'm scared of reading 'Hitler'", and because of that I am opposed to changing the page. Quite frankly, the man's been dead for over fifty years. I think we can safely mention his name with reasonable assurance that he won't jump out of a dark alley and boogeyman us to death. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 17:37:04 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D40A16A421 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:37:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (gizmo.acns.msu.edu [35.8.1.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7C013C447 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:37:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lAQH6Ivw071520; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:06:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lAQH6INC071519; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:06:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:06:18 -0500 From: Jerry McAllister To: "eBoundHost: Artur" , Frank Shute , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Message-ID: <20071126170617.GD71160@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: Jerry McAllister Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:37:04 -0000 On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 01:01:42PM +0000, Frank Shute wrote: > On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > > > >PS. What should be abolished on the grounds of decency is top posting > > >& rehashing topics that have been gone on about ad nauseum, & on the > > >wrong mailing list. > > > > My apologies for top posting, will never happen again. I've never posted > > to a list before. > > That's OK but what isn't OK is to take somebody elses post & > selectively edit it when quoting from it, like you have done to my > post. > > You also failed to address most of my points. So! He doesn't have any responsibility to respond to all of your posts. He can respond to whichever ones he wants and ignore all the rest. That goes for selectively editing. That is part of the recommended behavior on the list - to edit out the parts not specifically relevant to the response so people don't have to wade through a lot of irrelevant crap to find the actual response. It is as important as that other anti-social behavior called top-posting. ////jerry ... lots excised ... > > Follow-ups to chat&freebsd.org please. > > Regards, > > -- > Frank > > Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 17:41:04 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D683216A41A for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:41:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from crivens.kernel32.de (crivens.terrorteam.de [81.169.171.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5F713C468 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:41:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crivens.kernel32.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F0BB0281; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:41:03 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:41:03 +0100 From: Marian Hettwer To: Reid Linnemann In-Reply-To: <474AFC8B.3080608@cs.okstate.edu> References: <474AFC8B.3080608@cs.okstate.edu> Message-ID: X-Sender: mh@kernel32.de User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: artur@eboundhost.com, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:41:04 -0000 On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:04:11 -0600, Reid Linnemann wrote: > Written by eBoundHost: Artur on 11/26/07 10:05>> >> This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my >> grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put >> her name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not >> appropriate. Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. > > I can understand your point that you'd like the reference to be less > specific ("don't put something in the offensive list because you find > the source offensive"), but at this point the motivation still seems to > be "I'm scared of reading 'Hitler'", and because of that I am opposed to > changing the page. Quite frankly, the man's been dead for over fifty > years. I think we can safely mention his name with reasonable assurance > that he won't jump out of a dark alley and boogeyman us to death. This thread really has nothing to do with being scared of reading 'Hitler'. The point is that folks could visit FreeBSD's website, reading "ah, so Hitler is not offensive". Some folks would agree, some would disagree. Why would you like to polarize in the first place? Second point is, that Hitler is a politicial historical person. FreeBSD has nothing to do with politics or history, so come on and delete that bloody name of the website. It can't be that hard, eh? Regards, Marian From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 17:43:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB8F316A469 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lreid@cs.okstate.edu) Received: from a.cs.okstate.edu (a.cs.okstate.edu [139.78.113.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA03713C47E for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lreid@cs.okstate.edu) Received: from [172.18.0.232] (showcase.tulsatech.com [70.168.226.150]) by a.cs.okstate.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D55154C4C; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:44:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <474B059D.8060504@cs.okstate.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:42:53 -0600 From: Reid Linnemann User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070926) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eBoundHost@cs.okstate.edu:Artur References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> <474AFC8B.3080608@cs.okstate.edu> <005e01c83051$10e61ee0$6d00a8c0@mobility> In-Reply-To: <005e01c83051$10e61ee0$6d00a8c0@mobility> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:43:05 -0000 Written by eBoundHost: Artur on 11/26/07 11:23>> >> I can understand your point that you'd like the reference to be less >> specific ("don't put something in the offensive list because you find >> the source offensive"), but at this point the motivation still seems to >> be "I'm scared of reading 'Hitler'", and because of that I am opposed to >> changing the page. Quite frankly, the man's been dead for over fifty >> years. I think we can safely mention his name with reasonable assurance >> that he won't jump out of a dark alley and boogeyman us to death. > > You're missing the point. This is about the fact that this content is > not appropriate for the page its listed on, not about any kind of > hitlerphobia. If there was an explanation that we're all for freedom of > voice and that even hitlers quotes will be acceptable, that would be > fine. but instead all we have is that "exceptable content: - hitlers > quotes" no explanation, no commentary. I'm not missing the point, and you're reversing the condition on the page to support your own viewpoint. The page does not say "Hitler quotes are acceptable". It says that "Hitler quotes" do not inherently belong in the offensive list. Hitler quotes are an example of an abuse of the offensive list that, like the emacs/vi jokes reference on the page, has been actually brought up in the past. If you read the final sentence on the page, "Additional examples will be added to the offensive and unoffensive lists above, as guidelines, whenever core@ is required to settle a dispute on this issue.", you would be able to deduce this for yourself. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 17:52:37 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E9F16A469; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:52:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from crivens.kernel32.de (crivens.terrorteam.de [81.169.171.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697D013C442; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:52:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crivens.kernel32.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2B9B023F; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:28:25 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:28:25 +0100 From: Marian Hettwer To: Dominic Fandrey In-Reply-To: <474AF981.3080709@gmx.de> References: <474AF981.3080709@gmx.de> Message-ID: X-Sender: mh@kernel32.de User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: artur@eboundhost.com, Frank Shute , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:52:37 -0000 On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:51:13 +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: > eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >> 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying >> to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if >> that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is >> that we remove his name from the website: >> (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to >> innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and >> unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of >> insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. >> ... > > Quote from the linked website: >> If an entry offends more than a couple of FreeBSD committers and does > not >> contain any objective poignant historical reference, the entry should be > in >> the offensive file. > > I'm not a freebsd committer, but I do feel offended by Hitler quotes > (being > German that is understandable, I think). And it's unthinkable for me to > put > anything he said anywhere else but into offensive. > Just by being his words a quote is put into an offensive (and not amusing) > context. I do agree with this statement above! Besides I wouldn't like to see the name Hitler on freebsd's website. It just doesn't belong there. Especially when the website is saying, that the quotes are not offensive. Please remove that entry, at least. Thanks, Marian From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 18:49:21 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2CB16A417 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:49:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jjfitzgerald@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DF113C4DD for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:49:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jjfitzgerald@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so1835511pyb for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:49:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:in-reply-to:x-mimeole:thread-index:message-id; bh=RJm1T6+7Tt+0tRRcPn4dMOetqpFJ3ijCAkDTWe+1PE8=; b=TDdC57wPfcfxGA35vWHP7b7pQsfSu1WOo+/dFlsaDpE7fbcQSVOKaxTwUJnuRdeDpt5BNWFIquGgrDBkt5dVhHRATWoGEDGUetferb6/emzkEAhzw1tOjmT0JOI3ZCw2olUQtB0s2RMeqWlRnX1GVJ0pu7NR1tHSUKT1y0RnPOE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:from:to:cc:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:in-reply-to:x-mimeole:thread-index:message-id; b=ru9FsHQ0k/lY5L/BpJd75SeoeW31ecgkwudOqalYPZPxe1TVOFDz5ABobrZuBU/6oF+Wmb80n+oMDCsQF/q64CSd6XFS4EvkGJm8oYv7u6ShUeKHdDDnqwL7mYsMLau+bJno/kzHmddDMEQgi0N6JG+4esmMJEIyzriwWtjGYcc= Received: by 10.65.252.13 with SMTP id e13mr6264525qbs.1196101401688; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from NRWebDEV ( [63.117.33.114]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e18sm1176134qba.2007.11.26.10.23.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:23:19 -0800 (PST) From: "John J Fitzgerald" To: "'Marian Hettwer'" , "'Dominic Fandrey'" Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:24:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AcgwVS+o7voA0HvqTyezKiCPRnvrCQAAwQ4g Message-ID: <474b0f17.1238400a.6406.798f@mx.google.com> Cc: artur@eboundhost.com, 'Frank Shute' , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, 'FreeBSD chat' Subject: RE: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:49:21 -0000 Can people stop responding to this thread, especially the personal OT back and forth exchanges? I'm on the freebsd-questions list and it's clogging up my inbox and has nothing to do with the FreeBSD operating system. I think most agree the website should be change to exclude the specific reference to Hitler and I'm going to email the freebsd-www list to see if I can get this change made, unless someone has a better suggestion on how to get it changed. Everything else is very OT. Here's one man's plea to stop this thread now. -JJF -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Marian Hettwer Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:28 PM To: Dominic Fandrey Cc: artur@eboundhost.com; Frank Shute; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:51:13 +0100, Dominic Fandrey wrote: > eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >> 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying >> to do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if >> that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is >> that we remove his name from the website: >> (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to >> innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and >> unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of >> insensitive jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. >> ... > > Quote from the linked website: >> If an entry offends more than a couple of FreeBSD committers and does > not >> contain any objective poignant historical reference, the entry should be > in >> the offensive file. > > I'm not a freebsd committer, but I do feel offended by Hitler quotes > (being > German that is understandable, I think). And it's unthinkable for me to > put > anything he said anywhere else but into offensive. > Just by being his words a quote is put into an offensive (and not amusing) > context. I do agree with this statement above! Besides I wouldn't like to see the name Hitler on freebsd's website. It just doesn't belong there. Especially when the website is saying, that the quotes are not offensive. Please remove that entry, at least. Thanks, Marian _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 20:04:33 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE1816A417 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:04:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0611313C4F7 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:04:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IwkBw-0003sY-WD for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:04:29 +0000 Received: from esperance.zetnet.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with SMTP id lAQK4SEe003934 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:04:28 GMT Received: (qmail 86219 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Nov 2007 20:04:23 -0000 From: "Frank Shute" Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:04:23 +0000 To: "eBoundHost: Artur" Message-ID: <20071126200423.GA86038@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: "eBoundHost: Artur" , Frank Shute , FreeBSD chat References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:04:28 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Frank Shute , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:04:33 -0000 On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:05:05AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > > > > > >You also failed to address most of my points. > > Frank, No offense, but who has time to go through all points of every post > and respond. There was much said here but i want to keep this post on > topic. Artur, you shouldn't have kicked a hornet's nest if you aren't prepared to respond ;) > > >And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD > >material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain > >artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. > > > > Two points > > 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an > appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or > against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not > matter. chat@ is an appropriate forum to discuss politics as it relates to FreeBSD and you bought it up in the first place! It's you who wants to indulge in censorship. As for your assertion it doesn't matter, it *does* matter. Most people within this community are against censorship of any form, it goes with the territory of open source software. > what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the > wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a > decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad > in front of non-users. We went through this when the new logo was created. One of the reasons it was created was a result of some stupid people thinking the OS was to do with satanism (because of the daemon logo). My opinion, is that if people are that stupid then they don't deserve to use FreeBSD. > > 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to > do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's > what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we > remove his name from the website: > (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to > innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and > unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive > jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. Where does it say we condone Hitler's sayings? It doesn't and maybe some of his sayings are worth condoning. All it says is they don't belong in the offensive fortunes just because they happen to be said by Hitler. It's a good example made in context. > People who come accross this wording will not stop to think about > all the deep philosophical reasons why the text needs to be there to > protect freedoms. All they will see is that we seemingly support > Hitler. Why don't we have other names controversial during our > times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? If people are so shallow that they think FreeBSD supports Hitler and all his works from that page, then they don't deserve to use FreeBSD & good riddance to them. As to why we shouldn't have another name? Well, people would obviously think we support all the satanic works of Mussolini, George Bush etc. We'd be back to square one again. > > >Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his > >henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human > >condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" > >by A.Huxley. > > This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my > grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her > name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. > Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. I just don't agree with you. His name is used entirely appropriately on that page. PS. Please note that I use to indicate excised content & I didn't quote you out of order or context. Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 22:25:40 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4AE916A41A for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from pih-relay08.plus.net (pih-relay08.plus.net [212.159.14.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD1A13C455 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from [84.92.156.191] (helo=jayton.plus.com) by pih-relay08.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1IwmOZ-0000J5-IA for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:25:39 +0000 Message-ID: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:25:37 +0000 From: Jayton Garnett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071120) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:25:40 -0000 Hi All, Last night I unwittingly upgraded to 6.3 pre-release, by using the stable-supfile, didn't realize it would go to a pre-release. I have already noticed some instability, so far with xmms it keeps crashing out on me while playing MP3s, which it did not do on 6.2. I still have more to test, which I'll do tomorrow, I just checked my mail and put some MP3s on tonight while doing non-puter things. Is anyone else running 6.3PR with ports as of 1 week ago? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 26 23:18:08 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E48A16A417 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:18:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D737F13C47E for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:18:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IwnDK-00067X-CT for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:18:06 +0000 Received: from esperance.zetnet.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with SMTP id lAQNI5DX007214 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:18:06 GMT Received: (qmail 17093 invoked by uid 1001); 26 Nov 2007 23:18:00 -0000 From: "Frank Shute" Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:18:00 +0000 To: Jayton Garnett Message-ID: <20071126231800.GB86592@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Jayton Garnett , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:18:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:18:08 -0000 On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:25:37PM +0000, Jayton Garnett wrote: > > Hi All, > > Last night I unwittingly upgraded to 6.3 pre-release, by using the > stable-supfile, didn't realize it would go to a pre-release. The release process is stable goes to pre-release, then rc (maybe more than one). The release is made and we go back to stable again. > I have already noticed some instability, so far with xmms it keeps > crashing out on me while playing MP3s, which it did not do on 6.2. > I still have more to test, which I'll do tomorrow, I just checked my > mail and put some MP3s on tonight while doing non-puter things. > > Is anyone else running 6.3PR with ports as of 1 week ago? > I am: FreeBSD melon.esperance-linux.co.uk 6.3-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE #0: Thu Nov 15 16:09:06 GMT 2007 root@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MELON_UP i386 Although, I've supped my ports since then. I've found it pretty solid although vim crashed on me for the 1st time in 10 years. I've no idea whether it was because of the OS or application but it recovered fine and hasn't crashed again. As for xmms: [frank@melon:frank/latex/misc] $ xmms Gdk-ERROR **: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) serial 2423 error_code 8 request_code 72 minor_code 0 Gdk-ERROR **: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) serial 2424 error_code 8 request_code 72 minor_code 0 [frank@melon:frank/latex/misc] $ I haven't really looked into it (it's got umpteen dependencies), just rebuilt it to see if that did any good (it didn't). Should file a pr if others are getting problems with this port too. I just use mplayer for now. BTW: xmms-1.2.10_10 -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 02:48:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C458916A418 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 02:48:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd4mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A44813C46E for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 02:48:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.177]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JS50012M943C920@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:48:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.152]) by pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JS5007D4943SY10@pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:48:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from cydem.org ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JS500KUC942PH50@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD, from userid 58) id 9BC107F218; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from freen0de (s64-180-126-80.bc.hsia.telus.net [64.180.126.80]) by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD) with ESMTP id 2FFD57E804 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:49:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:47:52 -0800 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20071126184752.0a10ef15@freen0de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.9.1 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on cydem.org References: <474AFC8B.3080608@cs.okstate.edu> X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 02:48:43 -0000 > > I can understand your point that you'd like the reference to be less > > specific ("don't put something in the offensive list because you > > find the source offensive"), but at this point the motivation still > > seems to be "I'm scared of reading 'Hitler'", and because of that I > > am opposed to changing the page. Quite frankly, the man's been dead > > for over fifty years. I think we can safely mention his name with > > reasonable assurance that he won't jump out of a dark alley and > > boogeyman us to death. > > This thread really has nothing to do with being scared of reading > 'Hitler'. The point is that folks could visit FreeBSD's website, > reading "ah, so Hitler is not offensive". Some folks would agree, > some would disagree. Why would you like to polarize in the first > place? Second point is, that Hitler is a politicial historical > person. FreeBSD has nothing to do with politics or history, so come > on and delete that bloody name of the website. It can't be that hard, > eh? All right. "This thread really has nothing to do with being scared of reading 'emacs'. The point is that folks could visit FreeBSD's website, reading "ah, so emacs is not offensive". Some folks would agree, some would disagree. Why would you like to polarize in the first place?" The point missed was that the example warns those with an itch to stick Hitler's quotes or emacs jokes into an offensive list to reconsider contributing to the fortunes. This kind of thinking in rather absolute terms is not so compatible with FreeBSD's philosophy of 'free', meaning in this context 'unbiased'. The concrete example used is there for a reason. Read the whole page, especially near the end. Not all the fortunes have nothing to do with history, don't they? > Regards, > Marian [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 03:04:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1551716A46C for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:04:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@seaholm.caamora.com.au) Received: from seaholm.caamora.com.au (seaholm.caamora.com.au [203.7.226.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1996813C4D3 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:04:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@seaholm.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by seaholm.caamora.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) id lAR2crp20338; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:38:53 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <20071127133853.50335@caamora.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:38:53 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: "eBoundHost: Artur" References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility>; from eBoundHost: Artur on Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:05:05AM -0600 Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Cc: Frank Shute , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:04:12 -0000 On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:05:05AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: removed for brevity > > And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD > > material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain > > artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. > Two points > 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an > appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or > against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not > matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the > wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a decent > website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad in > front of non-users. so just using a name is a political statement ?? a political comment ?? explain to me please when this happened, i'm not truely current as regards my political education. > 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to > do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's > what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we > remove his name from the website: > (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to > innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and > unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive > jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. People who come > accross this wording will not stop to think about all the deep philosophical > reasons why the text needs to be there to protect freedoms. All they will > see is that we seemingly support Hitler. Why don't we have other names > controversial during our times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? ummmm i would like to add a third point .. question, view. you seem to talk like a person who hasn't a clue .. like teh majority off the politically correct opinion 'pushers' in this world. most of my family didn;t make it out of europe during wwII but my grandmother did and her daughter my mother did did as well. they didn't talk much about what really happened but i remember teh scream nightmares like they are happening right now. note, i am not advocating any political position. maybe i didn't need to say this .. but just in case.. one thing that my grandmother taught me was that the day we start to sucomb tot eh opinions of those that would hide the not so nice things in this world that is teh day we start the clock to teh next episode. you want to take out those things because tehy are truely ofensive or because you personally find them offensive for what ever justification you care to choose ? if they are truely offensive then sure BUT if it is a case of personal offence because of what others might think of you and you are frightened of what they might say about you ?? this is what it sounds like to my simple mind. we as a group wil eventually need to make our minds up as regards to how far we go to appease the nefarious 'others' that rule us all be fear, fear of being left out, fear of being cast as teh outsider. my grandmother asked me to remember what happened because she was frightened that me and people like me (i am intellectuall and physically disabled) will, at best be discriminated against or at worst be 'scrubed out' because we are a burden, don;t fit. the only way we can remember is to have those items before our eyes, yes they might be hard to swallow they might even be politically incorrect at this point in time but we as a society need to remember what teh real costs of appeasment really is .. it has already started with freebsd change from teh logo come mascot beastie being change to a LESS offensive image were is it going to stop ?? > > > Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his > > henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human > > condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" > > by A.Huxley. > > This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my > grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her > name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. > Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. then where are the apprepriate fora ? in conclusion, i hope your grandmother didn't have to see and do teh things that my grandmother needed to too survive wwII. please excuse my writing style, its teh best that i can do and i am not pointing fingures, i hope i am saying what i think that i am saying. we as a group as a society need to remember so that we won;t repeat our past mistakes, current wisdom comes to us from/by learning the lessons that our history/events have teh capacity to teach, us, .. at least those that (are willing to) learn. most kind regards jonathan -- ================================================================ powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system ==== === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ==== From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 03:18:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8686716A419 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:18:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B1ED13C44B for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:18:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr6so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.9]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JS500EZK7P89F30@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:17:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.152]) by pd2mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JS50019A7P8GF80@pd2mr6so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:17:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cydem.org ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JS500L3O7P7WZL0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD, from userid 58) id B23367F218; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:19:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from freen0de (s64-180-126-80.bc.hsia.telus.net [64.180.126.80]) by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD) with ESMTP id 335B97E804 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:19:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:17:21 -0800 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <20071126231800.GB86592@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20071126181721.5573ed2c@freen0de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.9.1 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on cydem.org References: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> <20071126231800.GB86592@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:18:26 -0000 > > Last night I unwittingly upgraded to 6.3 pre-release, by using the > > stable-supfile, didn't realize it would go to a pre-release. > > The release process is stable goes to pre-release, then rc (maybe more > than one). The release is made and we go back to stable again. What is the CVS tag for 6[.2]-STABLE then? > Frank [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 03:46:38 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1DE16A417 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:46:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 42AD813C46A for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:46:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 27417 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 03:19:55 -0000 Received: from adsl2.dyn234.pacific.net.sg (HELO P2120.somewherefaraway.com) (oceanare@210.24.234.2) by smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTPA; 27 Nov 2007 03:19:54 -0000 Message-ID: <474B8CD3.2030906@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:19:47 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070826) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eBoundHost: Artur References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> In-Reply-To: <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Frank Shute , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:46:38 -0000 Hi, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >>> > > 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an > appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or > against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does > not matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate > the wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present > a decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us > look bad in front of non-users. this reasoning was one of the main excuses of Germans after the war was lost. 'I only did my job'. > > that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is > that we remove his name from the website: Is there a shorter way to express the same thing? > freedoms. All they will see is that we seemingly support Hitler. Why > don't we have other names controversial during our times like Mussolini, > Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? Because they are just lousy copy cats. But one has at least a serious chance to make it up to become the new leader of the pack. > One thing is for sure, Adolf Schicklgruber still keep people busy. Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 05:09:54 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21E416A419 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:09:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6BF313C455 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:09:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.12]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JS5008S6FO10O30@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:09:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pn2ml8so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.152]) by pd3mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JS50001UFO08H50@pd3mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from cydem.org ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JS5003YWFNZIF40@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD, from userid 58) id B6F467F218; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from freen0de (s64-180-126-80.bc.hsia.telus.net [64.180.126.80]) by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD) with ESMTP id 5158F7E804 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:11:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:09:24 -0800 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20071126210924.389ae9ea@freen0de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.9.1 (GTK+ 2.10.6; i386-portbld-freebsd6.2) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on cydem.org References: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> <20071126231800.GB86592@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20071126181721.5573ed2c@freen0de> X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:09:54 -0000 >> What is the CVS tag for 6[.2]-STABLE then? > Hi, I think that the tag for 6.2 is RELENG_6, revise handbook. nope, 'src-all tag=RELENG_6' with cvsup updated everything to 6.3-PRERELEASE... >Hideo [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 05:23:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85AED16A418 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:23:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hideo03@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.249]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C74513C44B for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:23:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hideo03@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so214338anc for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:23:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=72JFs9jX7M3hWxWVHqGygYwb2w7uByRZvneaARs2aRg=; b=H0eHqKTpyxtYyfrzCsOhaPLuadmkd2WXg8LIC7Sv06xYshjsd0uKXpY3dKBv91T5j2SFU3mNCrY2js68UmJA52u9fn3hWXLitH3kI4qtLEeJHZsNCs843nAYRi4e9HY21o+cHCVsCqBJC+KlaBAlpS0PLUAVG8LZtruH3TVBQnk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=mTNh3aCTp7v+JNQmMLNYaHdtmrrRLXFGZ8YeDTggulfRniFaBLzDsPvYEtSq7JJDUa+W0k7JtXMij2NWNWuXtRshCiYG7RxOENZ3/pCHt7/iEdZP/9MoVtRJOCS97zJw82Pzy2WNBGE3LJKllDreYQ8dC8w6d5MUfB0PZWlTCQ8= Received: by 10.101.68.19 with SMTP id v19mr1871432ank.1196139280288; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:54:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.115.19 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:54:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:54:40 +0100 From: "Hideo Hideo" To: soralx@cydem.org In-Reply-To: <20071126181721.5573ed2c@freen0de> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> <20071126231800.GB86592@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20071126181721.5573ed2c@freen0de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:23:05 -0000 On Nov 27, 2007 3:17 AM, wrote: > > > > Last night I unwittingly upgraded to 6.3 pre-release, by using the > > > stable-supfile, didn't realize it would go to a pre-release. > > > > The release process is stable goes to pre-release, then rc (maybe more > > than one). The release is made and we go back to stable again. > > What is the CVS tag for 6[.2]-STABLE then? > > > Frank > > [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Hi, I think that the tag for 6.2 is RELENG_6, revise handbook. Hideo http://celtarras.dyndns.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 06:36:56 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A91316A41B for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFDBF13C46B for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:36:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from TEDSDESK (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id lAR6Eeim094005; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:14:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: , "FreeBSD chat" Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:16:12 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:36:56 -0000 Beastie's Law: Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically wrong. Anyone making such a demand automatically loses. Ted From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 06:39:27 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3A616A417 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.31]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 77DB313C455 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:39:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 647 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 06:39:24 -0000 Received: from adsl2.dyn234.pacific.net.sg (HELO P2120.somewherefaraway.com) (oceanare@210.24.234.2) by smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg with ESMTPA; 27 Nov 2007 06:39:24 -0000 Message-ID: <474BBB96.6050306@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:39:18 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070826) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" References: <474BB706.4090505@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <474BB706.4090505@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Ted Mittelstaedt , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:39:27 -0000 Hi, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >> Beastie's Law: >> >> Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website >> using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically >> wrong. > > Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. In some circles > for example immigrants are "foreign born" and using the correct term > is "wrong". both terms are offensive here. I am a foreign talent. This brings up a new question: what is with the local talent. Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 06:48:56 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9A216A41A for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:48:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA8713C468 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:48:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so2332148pyb for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:48:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iaS1rIz9N8U9TmaWqVjotCjLkgEzULuzmsJW4FCUffQ=; b=HeCQIs+II/9Qgv410OUPnP04RNnjqTL36pX3TE/MGKRTqL0leIsPLv1M5f7kEHtBy3k5cXPB6E/XeL6iCQJ5/96yGoTmk+WD3pE9brkC3vcTQohmAv7pcrmmzsDrQJNa5Ob9mQeY8RqGQTQbphpL2aswIR2tnzjNuXVc/DseWAc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=QFvFxkxrzw/RzXmgGzbyV6g+JNywuEnVKIb7c+v8lC8mfAQFzhTrLqyW0z9NC7j7Auj5Zi+srABXDuD3fA52KhxkwingvpcXIBtfiXFErLElE4Hamk7ZM9f3EqVP+fy9jjBikjLW/4WpOFQXVEVbCWJ2QytRarp4aFLwQzJ1P6s= Received: by 10.65.73.16 with SMTP id a16mr7890148qbl.1196144398157; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:19:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q19sm1729130qbq.2007.11.26.22.19.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:19:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <474BB706.4090505@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:19:50 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071125) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:48:56 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Beastie's Law: > > Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website > using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically > wrong. Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. In some circles for example immigrants are "foreign born" and using the correct term is "wrong". - -- Aryeh M. Friedman Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHS7cGJ9+1V27SttsRAjF3AJ4qaNUny4XOZRF619DvXqjKhJVivACeIjh+ WZHSiKlrMYZ3EdGiLf65240= =+et8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 06:58:06 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B6E16A46C; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:58:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98D713C46B; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:58:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from TEDSDESK (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id lAR6w4tS094363; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:58:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:59:37 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 In-Reply-To: <474BB706.4090505@gmail.com> Importance: Normal Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: RE: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:58:06 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Aryeh M. Friedman [mailto:aryeh.friedman@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:20 PM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; FreeBSD chat > Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > Beastie's Law: > > > > Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website > > using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically > > wrong. > > Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. It doesen't matter. What constitutes a Nazi comparison is also very subjective. However, Godwin's law works anyway. Ted From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 07:03:08 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115DD16A41B; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:03:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C67F713C467; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:03:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from TEDSDESK (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id lAR735UV094409; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:03:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Erich Dollansky" , "Aryeh M. Friedman" Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:04:38 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 In-Reply-To: <474BBB96.6050306@pacific.net.sg> Importance: Normal Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: RE: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:03:08 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Erich Dollansky [mailto:oceanare@pacific.net.sg] > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:39 PM > To: Aryeh M. Friedman > Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; FreeBSD chat > Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law > > > Hi, > > Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > >> Beastie's Law: > >> > >> Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website > >> using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically > >> wrong. > > > > Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. In some circles > > for example immigrants are "foreign born" and using the correct term > > is "wrong". > > both terms are offensive here. > > I am a foreign talent. > Really? Cool! Which planet are you from? > This brings up a new question: what is with the local talent. > The Earthlings started going downhill about 60 years ago when they dreamed up this device called a TV Set. But there are signs that they figured out what they did and are abandoning them - we are seeing the IQ of the herd rising again and there is a direct correspondence to average TV watching hours. Ted From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 07:07:31 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6C116A46B for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:07:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F180C13C4F2 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:07:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so2341458pyb for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:07:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y/Og0+JZz1sckwmPkfdK+GMV3rF6gUkIjTPMD2gVKdI=; b=HK1I6TFEAmVW/ULsJmt9G12RTZoUUudhJzly1r34S7j/u8SuLByB7IGCNJ8ncM6500zdkshoeY/wLwThylc48NFJyO7kKd780k+VGDbOmwU9caeUt2G2TtN45emNYkMZ0MN9oUu6ScNNUcOj6+IeEw6P5EbSGNnOxo80d4Yzbi0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=v0cZxnFeAxGIpvA7//aHEJevLmzGZUdlea43GJMzi3+ndgfZjc/8jHPZX++9t/o9VvPR6SWFOFYSlZnYfovUenb/kQQaYCivPuHiSYmgLXjla1fDzVO2kpmbvpmZgFPVTOSfUh3hE/HYbUW0N4YHVICzIpjkgMBfjMOwauO5VO0= Received: by 10.65.249.11 with SMTP id b11mr8017982qbs.1196147249874; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:07:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a29sm1756186qbd.2007.11.26.23.07.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:07:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 02:07:27 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071125) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD chat , Erich Dollansky , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:07:31 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > The Earthlings started going downhill about 60 years ago when they > dreamed up this device called a TV Set. But there are signs that > they figured out what they did and are abandoning them - we are > seeing the IQ of the herd rising again and > there is a direct correspondence to average TV watching hours. > Does this include YouTube? - -- Aryeh M. Friedman Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHS8IvJ9+1V27SttsRAqaoAJ9GFlN4UQPW5Ala9WgwW2cr+46PLgCdE78t pxk2LMNMKjhqZ7fyN2uBzjQ= =SM+C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 07:13:47 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3396E16A41B for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:13:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1BA713C47E for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:13:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Iwuda-0002AR-A8 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:13:42 +0000 Received: from esperance.zetnet.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with SMTP id lAR7DfQh009814 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:13:42 GMT Received: (qmail 19298 invoked by uid 1001); 27 Nov 2007 07:13:36 -0000 From: "Frank Shute" Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:13:36 +0000 To: soralx@cydem.org Message-ID: <20071127071336.GA19275@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: soralx@cydem.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> <20071126231800.GB86592@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20071126181721.5573ed2c@freen0de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071126181721.5573ed2c@freen0de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:13:42 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:13:47 -0000 On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 06:17:21PM -0800, soralx@cydem.org wrote: > > > > > Last night I unwittingly upgraded to 6.3 pre-release, by using the > > > stable-supfile, didn't realize it would go to a pre-release. > > > > The release process is stable goes to pre-release, then rc (maybe more > > than one). The release is made and we go back to stable again. > > What is the CVS tag for 6[.2]-STABLE then? > There's no 6.2 STABLE any longer. The tag for 6.2 RELEASE is RELENG_6_2 and 6.3 STABLE is RELENG_6 aka PRERELEASE. When 6.3 is released there'll also be a RELENG_6_3 (6.3 RELEASE). That's my understanding of it anyway. -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 07:31:17 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E5016A41A for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2501813C467 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:31:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 14695 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 07:31:13 -0000 Received: from adsl2.dyn234.pacific.net.sg (HELO P2120.somewherefaraway.com) (oceanare@210.24.234.2) by smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTPA; 27 Nov 2007 07:31:13 -0000 Message-ID: <474BC7B9.1050505@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:31:05 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070826) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Aryeh M. Friedman" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:31:17 -0000 Hi, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >> both terms are offensive here. >> >> I am a foreign talent. >> > > Really? Cool! Which planet are you from? third rock from the sun. > >> This brings up a new question: what is with the local talent. >> > > The Earthlings started going downhill about 60 years ago when they and the remaining IQ was killed by hand phones. Man, market penetration is here above 110% Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 07:32:41 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DEF216A420 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:32:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 445EA13C4E3 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:32:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 20151 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 07:32:39 -0000 Received: from adsl2.dyn234.pacific.net.sg (HELO P2120.somewherefaraway.com) (oceanare@210.24.234.2) by smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTPA; 27 Nov 2007 07:32:38 -0000 Message-ID: <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:32:24 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070826) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Ted Mittelstaedt , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:32:41 -0000 Hi, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > > Does this include YouTube? > this is an incorrect question as Flash is not really supported by FreeBSD. Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 07:37:44 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B1C16A420 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:37:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B8A13C447 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:37:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Iwv0p-0003EP-Fv for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:37:43 +0000 Received: from esperance.zetnet.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with SMTP id lAR7bgNr029610 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:37:43 GMT Received: (qmail 19346 invoked by uid 1001); 27 Nov 2007 07:37:37 -0000 From: "Frank Shute" Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:37:37 +0000 To: soralx@cydem.org Message-ID: <20071127073737.GB19275@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: soralx@cydem.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> <20071126231800.GB86592@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20071126181721.5573ed2c@freen0de> <20071127071336.GA19275@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127071336.GA19275@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:37:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:37:44 -0000 On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 07:13:36AM +0000, Frank Shute wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 06:17:21PM -0800, soralx@cydem.org wrote: > > > > > > > > Last night I unwittingly upgraded to 6.3 pre-release, by using the > > > > stable-supfile, didn't realize it would go to a pre-release. > > > > > > The release process is stable goes to pre-release, then rc (maybe more > > > than one). The release is made and we go back to stable again. > > > > What is the CVS tag for 6[.2]-STABLE then? > > > > There's no 6.2 STABLE any longer. The tag for 6.2 RELEASE is > RELENG_6_2 and 6.3 STABLE is RELENG_6 aka PRERELEASE. When 6.3 is > released there'll also be a RELENG_6_3 (6.3 RELEASE). What I should have added. After 6.3 RELEASE, RELENG_6 becomes 6.4 STABLE. (If there's going to be a 6.4; I think I read somewhere that there'll be a 6.4). 7.0 STABLE is RELENG_7 but that will go through the same process as 6.3 but with betas before pre-release and the rc's (I think) before RELENG_7_0 (7.0 RELEASE) is created and RELENG_7 becomes 7.1 STABLE. HTH :) > > That's my understanding of it anyway. > -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 07:58:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607FD16A41B for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:58:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1279E13C459 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:58:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so2367975pyb for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:58:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=B2qHeNK1kK3+xWmaV3PYuleaVZnsEt17B5+IYjZb3ik=; b=vhsUEe+qY+YieDtlUoX+ezqpp9R/WopqNLjdy+80ezY08HPpPHZKHJa4vetpoVBrwZI9FfFoSRE8eXgLRSYO13BQYNVAF8tAjE3ExBauKeks4P4b5w2o07yslUZLE0pp/ZHzQ4xapJGG4DDgqTAnkLnCScby5cyAPDTEkHinfiM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FPVE8hY3ZRd6Q0n6EuIF22ytOGMddmCWD0w/mHiG2L3Bx92qj1JlqUsce1JylfLlFrQjkQsEvZUZEqy9c9r8ChEkFMwvDjt7uQk2omQFhOApprR8C+6OIzs5YC7Unv+E0XKx5qUB76a0FwX9j04Jb85EmvQtVHBS6iqCq+TI/uA= Received: by 10.65.81.10 with SMTP id i10mr8024688qbl.1196150291235; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:58:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e10sm1777281qbe.2007.11.26.23.58.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:58:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <474BCE11.9090102@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 02:58:09 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071125) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joshua Isom References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD chat , Erich Dollansky , freebsd-questions Questions Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:58:12 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > Nonsense, it's "FreeBSD is not really supported by Flash." Those > damned Gnu people don't wish to advocate true open source support > but only to get their favorite hodgepodge supported by those who > have access to the code. Reminds me of fascists a bit. Comrad Stallman == Comrad Stalin ? - -- Aryeh M. Friedman Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHS84RJ9+1V27SttsRAvaAAKCkfmwkBrVF8LiAYaKeHxAK4YipdgCeOyjK OmyDvgIy1in5AuO4rizOw2s= =4n0w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 08:06:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DED16A418 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:06:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBFBE13C43E for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:06:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IwvSG-0004Vc-3D for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:06:04 +0000 Received: from esperance.zetnet.co.uk (54-144.adsl.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.54.144]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with SMTP id lAR863AN021654 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:06:03 GMT Received: (qmail 19443 invoked by uid 1001); 27 Nov 2007 08:05:58 -0000 From: "Frank Shute" Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:05:58 +0000 To: soralx@cydem.org Message-ID: <20071127080558.GA19398@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: soralx@cydem.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <474B47E1.8030203@gmail.com> <20071126231800.GB86592@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20071126181721.5573ed2c@freen0de> <20071127071336.GA19275@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20071127073737.GB19275@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071127073737.GB19275@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-PRERELEASE i386 X-Organisation: 'Esperance Linux' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (zetnet.co.uk [194.247.46.1]); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:06:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:06:05 -0000 On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 07:37:37AM +0000, Frank Shute wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 07:13:36AM +0000, Frank Shute wrote: > > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 06:17:21PM -0800, soralx@cydem.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the CVS tag for 6[.2]-STABLE then? > > > > > > > There's no 6.2 STABLE any longer. The tag for 6.2 RELEASE is > > RELENG_6_2 and 6.3 STABLE is RELENG_6 aka PRERELEASE. When 6.3 is > > released there'll also be a RELENG_6_3 (6.3 RELEASE). > > What I should have added. After 6.3 RELEASE, RELENG_6 becomes 6.4 > STABLE. (If there's going to be a 6.4; I think I read somewhere that > there'll be a 6.4). > > 7.0 STABLE is RELENG_7 but that will go through the same process as > 6.3 but with betas before pre-release and the rc's (I think) before > RELENG_7_0 (7.0 RELEASE) is created and RELENG_7 becomes 7.1 STABLE. > > HTH :) Sorry but I have to correct myself (half asleep): Amended last 2 paras above. What I should have added. After 6.3 RELEASE, RELENG_6 becomes 6.3 STABLE. Then it will go through the release process again and become 6.4 PRERELEASE, RC & then RELEASE. 7.0 STABLE is RELENG_7 but that will go through the same process as 6.3 but with betas before pre-release and the rc's (I think) before RELENG_7_0 (7.0 RELEASE) is created and RELENG_7 goes back to being 7.0 STABLE until the release process for 7.1 kicks in. I think I've got it right now! But the definitive word is on the homesite. To answer your question though, 6.2 STABLE doesn't exist any longer. -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 08:22:10 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9F416A421 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrisom@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A5213C457 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:22:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrisom@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so2381102pyb for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:22:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=fn5eAxvCHqBhLwbHXD9+N6aDX6rqTe2NsVofLeVvmsw=; b=Z9MlTJu97VmCSullDtwa1rF3EFV8Sm/+YI4HrlCgZ9q0cPY7O1nyQYXG9+8wh7NTii6Xlm76nl68O8wuAVvxjDUPHy/ijPJLvymbYsYoBhG98H9HJyzi3FRpEuPPFNV9mt9j5BzMvai0nSjCywk7jrMT7w1fup4QO9vLDRJXjto= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=QcBDeU2QiiutIBHPwi1TfIXnzGClfxuYHUxa8WDs9FxulVQGIi68SDSV1y+cSYBQsfhQ3A8XlfgMxVdHPNGQ2lxr7foi/j73lwzWkvB1+uTiLUtDR+dozOWVXsO6onSx7UuUeLl6MvNXEakr3T7+ycquMG3TKv6pAdEvZT/QKI8= Received: by 10.35.69.11 with SMTP id w11mr4375359pyk.1196150084094; Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:54:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.4? ( [74.134.230.123]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z52sm1827712pyg.2007.11.26.23.54.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:54:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joshua Isom Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:54:56 -0600 To: Erich Dollansky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) Cc: freebsd-questions Questions , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:22:10 -0000 On Nov 27, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > Hi, > > Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: >> Does this include YouTube? > this is an incorrect question as Flash is not really supported by > FreeBSD. > > Erich Nonsense, it's "FreeBSD is not really supported by Flash." Those damned Gnu people don't wish to advocate true open source support but only to get their favorite hodgepodge supported by those who have access to the code. Reminds me of fascists a bit. "Hitler was a good facist, he did his job well." Flame war anyone? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 08:43:28 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA1616A468 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:43:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865CE13C4F7 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:43:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so2393560pyb for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:43:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=dlim4zA1of4e9KD48lg37h30ZBfBFKWudwKMlvW7zk4=; b=i/dHTCjzCkSsEMpJpTtIwq5I2YFgn5n/Eq768flgsV5wKuj/xdqj0JFruOKNG4xDMfE0ezxPwXBvd5lFaNuU1Aj8D2mnPsxLmtOE6DqXi0Uonmy+gBmTDNASy63ntdwydQef17AkT3aFn0EWiOwJBQSaUyKUke0lgY3wVPFvvmI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=rUoXAGEn0g5Wgu00558xpgZocUx9NHFnoOG5xPWwqy5m/s7qGkLNK92idDi6wOFX6XCSenscxyRUigQ4Adv5Z/WTJCo/B3uQoKlXYrlKwO3MJPB4vbW9fW7VWLv6t2l2KfoMqZja/P3wHng6SUpY0o5yGEE56l7OhHM4q/2gFGk= Received: by 10.64.201.7 with SMTP id y7mr8124093qbf.1196153000545; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.105.5 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:43:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:43:20 -0500 From: "Aryeh Friedman" To: sunnzy+gnu@gmail.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> Cc: FreeBSD chat , Erich Dollansky , Ted Mittelstaedt , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:43:28 -0000 > > A typical "TV set service" is not really supported by FreeBSD > neither... or FreeBSD is not supported by "TV set service", or > something!! Talk about being a little literal I don't own a TV and watch everything I care about thanks to the networks sites, bit torrent and miro (hopefully will be officially added after the ports freeze is over) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 08:44:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513D216A4C8 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:44:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7AE4713C4F6 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:44:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 8737 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 08:44:22 -0000 Received: from adsl2.dyn234.pacific.net.sg (HELO P2120.somewherefaraway.com) (oceanare@210.24.234.2) by smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTPA; 27 Nov 2007 08:44:22 -0000 Message-ID: <474BD8DE.90600@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:44:14 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070826) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joshua Isom References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions Questions , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:44:26 -0000 Hi, Joshua Isom wrote: > > On Nov 27, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > >> Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > "Hitler was a good facist, he did his job well." no, he was a bad one. He finally lost > > Flame war anyone? Verbrannte Erde was the motto of his final campaign. The mother of all flame wars. Erich From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 09:02:03 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9BF16A421 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:02:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrisom@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C420E13C448 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:02:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jrisom@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so2405094pyb for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:02:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=6nthNk+dyC4JJP9COS2g65V+YTyyEMOKzdqqDjUrfxQ=; b=FlCVlU54W5Mm9xEGJRT8x7aF0OIABhKesJh1fRGk3e1YebqP+qKNXO1j76SZBXnJOuMb5qipIX/9r1rxrgBt++6SiVknKk/kniHqP5rXRpFdNyHgBGVId8HyglHz801UO1seZkjTjmIVY7WV/Px87p2YRBX1j7hnk1wApAm5MZs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=rq6QjpBJWsn4/qoerdzETasmlN0zD2yJP1LxdCOYM7R4ejmNFN5ppMkF/1WvgHIF60k+NOwObov045ywZBaqPi39wAE0Mj0wE7gAHg+/BKyK3FQhH5HZoeEjDk9YxxODuHe4BbvD9EbgUDDMV3h8V4pN91ZUrtUIVCBs9HvgPZw= Received: by 10.35.106.15 with SMTP id i15mr4473307pym.1196154121820; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.4? ( [74.134.230.123]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x48sm1108358pyg.2007.11.27.01.01.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:01:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <474BD8DE.90600@pacific.net.sg> References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> <474BD8DE.90600@pacific.net.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joshua Isom Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:02:12 -0600 To: Erich Dollansky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) Cc: freebsd-questions Questions , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:02:03 -0000 On Nov 27, 2007, at 2:44 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > Hi, > > Joshua Isom wrote: >> On Nov 27, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: >>> Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > >> "Hitler was a good facist, he did his job well." > > no, he was a bad one. He finally lost But he lost in due part to his fascism, and his devotion to the eradication of the Jews. There were numerous things he could have done to have Germany win the war(namely stepping down after it's start), but it was the fascism that lost the war. He discarded his country for his fascism. >> Flame war anyone? > > Verbrannte Erde was the motto of his final campaign. > > The mother of all flame wars. Classic retreat strategy. Make the earth worthless. Kind of doesn't work when food keeps coming in, and not just grown. > Erich > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 09:07:15 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 286BE16A469 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:07:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sunnzy@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB59313C4D9 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sunnzy@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so1281381waf for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:07:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=hDN8qW3fiW7t1jIrcrWauTR3xYX92U4lkZoaQ0QHr4o=; b=Df1EbyCfoO8XqkB2NNpvKj6rmcIvTVYnKK6l6hP/qg3kXz0Ive0L7Y8kBYOJT9cQZgHnparWldQzWRDJzJF7NfGspwa9VdpD0XbQfCaMPVcQyZNxeyOK1IclUQxFGcXdDkKJj1OYq784j2dvY6ph2+tfAzbF88Nesz3kweaqZcM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SJw3BTSvqu/ZeXqi5oNRzbHTqy6NNZl6lyMTPdEMRCGJ1U8ZtnDynbuivREqxumbMYjB6Cs9+9ETdYABHZE4zOkNfH/eRgAoZTnqI7IE4nGnxN4ZkoVJPSyOEZJiXcVMLAjwrhPsptGz83DvW3GzMmixjFO9YzlrkGpbFPXdGrk= Received: by 10.115.76.1 with SMTP id d1mr1387065wal.1196152730690; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.79.20 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:38:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:38:50 +1100 From: Sunnz To: "Erich Dollansky" In-Reply-To: <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> Cc: "Aryeh M. Friedman" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Ted Mittelstaedt , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sunnzy+gnu@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:07:15 -0000 2007/11/27, Erich Dollansky : > Hi, > > Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > > > > Does this include YouTube? > > > this is an incorrect question as Flash is not really supported by FreeBSD. > A typical "TV set service" is not really supported by FreeBSD neither... or FreeBSD is not supported by "TV set service", or something!! -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 10:13:34 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B95C16A468 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:13:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5546A13C4FB for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:13:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 25127 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 10:13:30 -0000 Received: from adsl2.dyn234.pacific.net.sg (HELO P2120.somewherefaraway.com) (oceanare@210.24.234.2) by smtpgate2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTPA; 27 Nov 2007 10:13:30 -0000 Message-ID: <474BEDC1.5060204@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:13:21 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070826) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joshua Isom References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> <474BD8DE.90600@pacific.net.sg> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions Questions , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:13:34 -0000 Hi, Joshua Isom wrote: > > On Nov 27, 2007, at 2:44 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > >> Joshua Isom wrote: >>> On Nov 27, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: >>>> Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: >> >>> "Hitler was a good facist, he did his job well." >> >> no, he was a bad one. He finally lost > > But he lost in due part to his fascism, and his devotion to the he only lost because of the Germans sabotaging him. He was the last man standing saving the last bullet for himself. > it was the fascism that lost the war. He discarded his country for his > fascism. He gave his life for the country. > >>> Flame war anyone? >> >> Verbrannte Erde was the motto of his final campaign. >> >> The mother of all flame wars. > > Classic retreat strategy. Make the earth worthless. Kind of doesn't > work when food keeps coming in, and not just grown. Classic? How wasted his own resources like this before? Erich PS: I hope real nazis never read this as they will not be able to understand the irony in here > >> Erich >> > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 14:05:04 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B385316A418; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:05:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsilver@chrononomicon.com) Received: from trans-warp.net (hyperion.trans-warp.net [216.37.208.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FB1513C4D3; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsilver@chrononomicon.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unverified [65.193.73.208]) by trans-warp.net (SurgeMail 3.8f2) with ESMTP id 144875277-1860479 for multiple; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:05:23 -0500 Message-ID: <474C2400.1090403@chrononomicon.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:04:48 -0500 From: Bart Silverstrim User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erich Dollansky References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> <474B8CD3.2030906@pacific.net.sg> In-Reply-To: <474B8CD3.2030906@pacific.net.sg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: bsilver@chrononomicon.com Cc: "eBoundHost@FreeBSD.ORG:Artur" , Frank Shute , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:05:04 -0000 Erich Dollansky wrote: > Hi, > > eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:12:36PM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: >>>> >> >> 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an >> appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for >> or against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really >> does not matter. what matters is how good our coding is, and how >> appropriate the wording on our website. because like it or not, we >> have to present a decent website that does not offend our users and >> does not make us look bad in front of non-users. > > this reasoning was one of the main excuses of Germans after the war was > lost. 'I only did my job'. This thread has been a wonderful demonstration of how people rationalize and interpret information. The poster before you was saying that they don't care what your non-BSD related views are, keep them to yourself. They're saying the priority is to promote and evangelize BSD. The political commentary has nothing to do with the OS, so it reflects on the community when threads like this are pursued. Somehow, you're saying the "Germans rationalized their atrocities with the excuse they were only doing their jobs." A) I don't see how the two are related at all. You're not making any clear justification for that reply. B) What happened was more a demonstration of society and psychology than having an entire nation suddenly "go insane." Every society has elements that to an outsider with their own culture and standards seems insane, and events of the period will also influence perceptions. It's also very clear that Germany wasn't one cohesive anti-Jewish loony bin. They were people, plain Jane citizens with their own beliefs and lives. >> that's what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting >> is that we remove his name from the website: > > Is there a shorter way to express the same thing? Replace everything mildly offensive with the string Anonymous or Chuck or Beastie. Whitewashing everything is the clearest way to having an enlightened community. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 14:54:44 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB8E16A420 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:54:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from william@palfreman.com) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D0813C457 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:54:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from william@palfreman.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so924233rvb for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:54:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.82.38 with SMTP id f38mr1921940rvb.1196173787159; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.18.8 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:29:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <731a66520711270629n605a8ba3pa4964e5dd6646aaa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:29:47 +0100 From: "William Palfreman" To: "eBoundHost: Artur" , "Frank Shute" , "FreeBSD chat" In-Reply-To: <20071126200423.GA86038@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <000401c82fb0$191b53b0$f300a8c0@outkast> <000301c82fbe$6ff618b0$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126013321.GA82569@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001d01c82fd1$d0722130$6701a8c0@mobility> <20071126130142.GA85191@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <001701c83046$1c3af910$6d00a8c0@mobility> <20071126200423.GA86038@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> Cc: Subject: Re: who wrote this X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:54:44 -0000 BTW, I think the new FreeBSD logo is horrible. Stick to the beastie. Ahh top post! Now I will rot on hell with Hitler, anyone who is offended by seeing a Hitler quote in the Fortune program (an electronic fortune cookie for crying out loud) and whichever numpty thought that stupid new logo was ok and that it mattered if a few very clearly non-FreeBSD uses thought it was satinic. Bill. (BTW, top posting can be useful if you want to refer to a text as a general overview, not a line by line flame war) On 26/11/2007, Frank Shute wrote: > On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 10:05:05AM -0600, eBoundHost: Artur wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >You also failed to address most of my points. > > > > Frank, No offense, but who has time to go through all points of every post > > and respond. There was much said here but i want to keep this post on > > topic. > > Artur, you shouldn't have kicked a hornet's nest if you aren't > prepared to respond ;) > > > > > > >And you haven't got the right to excise Hitler's name from FreeBSD > > >material. Don't you see the irony in that? When he banned certain > > >artists on the grounds of "decency" just like you're proposing to do. > > > > > > > Two points > > > > 1) first of all, i don't think that freebsd operating system is an > > appropriate forum to express political views. so whether we are for or > > against censorship or democracy or fascism or communism, it really does not > > matter. > > chat@ is an appropriate forum to discuss politics as it relates to > FreeBSD and you bought it up in the first place! It's you who wants to > indulge in censorship. > > As for your assertion it doesn't matter, it *does* matter. Most people > within this community are against censorship of any form, it goes with > the territory of open source software. > > > what matters is how good our coding is, and how appropriate the > > wording on our website. because like it or not, we have to present a > > decent website that does not offend our users and does not make us look bad > > in front of non-users. > > We went through this when the new logo was created. One of the reasons > it was created was a result of some stupid people thinking the OS was > to do with satanism (because of the daemon logo). My opinion, is that > if people are that stupid then they don't deserve to use FreeBSD. > > > > > 2) That's the thing, banning hitlers name is not at all what i'm trying to > > do. I think we should keep his quotes in the database of quotes, if that's > > what the community thinks is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is that we > > remove his name from the website: > > (http://www.freebsd.org/internal/fortunes.html) because it seems to > > innapropriately focus the attention away from the program (Fortune) and > > unecessarily makes the FreeBSD community seem like a bunch of insensitive > > jerks because we seemingly condone hitlers sayings. > > Where does it say we condone Hitler's sayings? It doesn't and maybe > some of his sayings are worth condoning. > > All it says is they don't belong in the offensive fortunes just > because they happen to be said by Hitler. It's a good example made in > context. > > > People who come accross this wording will not stop to think about > > all the deep philosophical reasons why the text needs to be there to > > protect freedoms. All they will see is that we seemingly support > > Hitler. Why don't we have other names controversial during our > > times like Mussolini, Stalin, or even Gorge Bush? > > If people are so shallow that they think FreeBSD supports Hitler and > all his works from that page, then they don't deserve to use FreeBSD & > good riddance to them. > > As to why we shouldn't have another name? Well, people would obviously > think we support all the satanic works of Mussolini, George Bush etc. > We'd be back to square one again. > > > > > >Just because he was "evil" doesn't mean he and the rest of his > > >henchmen didn't have something interesting to say about the human > > >condition. If you don't believe me, read "Brave New World: Revisited" > > >by A.Huxley. > > > > This has nothing to do with anything that I'm saying. Listen, my > > grandmother also has some interesting things to say but you don't put her > > name on the front page of the Fortune program because it's not appropriate. > > Same thing here. Just not an appropriate forum. > > I just don't agree with you. His name is used entirely appropriately > on that page. > > > > PS. Please note that I use to indicate excised content & I > didn't quote you out of order or context. > > Regards, > > -- > > Frank > > > Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 15:35:30 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DDDA16A418 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:35:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BA613C455 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:35:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lARFZSb6027722; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:35:28 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 2ZE2gX--Y6v2; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:35:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (dsl.daleco.biz [209.125.108.70]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lARFZGgJ027718; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:35:16 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <474C392E.3000607@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:35:10 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070418 SeaMonkey/1.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joshua Isom References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Erich Dollansky , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - who wrote it? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:35:30 -0000 Joshua Isom wrote: > On Nov 27, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: >>> Does this include YouTube? >> this is an incorrect question as Flash is not really supported by >> FreeBSD. >> >> Erich > > Nonsense, it's "FreeBSD is not really supported by Flash." Those damned > Gnu people don't wish to advocate true open source support but only to > get their favorite hodgepodge supported by those who have access to the > code. Reminds me of fascists a bit. > > "Hitler was a good facist, he did his job well." > > Flame war anyone? Kudos! You managed to integrate the two hottest topics in the freebsd-lets-chat-about-irrelevant-questions mailing list! So, just to make sure I understand: Hitler created television to rot our brains, Stalin ported Opera and Flash to Palm OS, and RMS is a closet fascist who's pushing Youtube onto the Verizon network? Does it follow that Rush Limbaugh is the Promised One, then? Seeking understanding ;-), Kevin Kinsey -- FORTUNE'S FUN FACTS TO KNOW AND TELL: #44 Zebra's are colored with dark stripes on a light background. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 16:27:54 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC2516A41A for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:27:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from greenwood.andy@gmail.com) Received: from que02.charter.net (que02.charter.net [209.225.8.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1526013C442 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:27:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from greenwood.andy@gmail.com) Received: from aarprv04.charter.net ([10.20.200.74]) by mtai04.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20071127155240.PDYE10863.mtai04.charter.net@aarprv04.charter.net>; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:52:40 -0500 Received: from agreenftp.no-ip.com ([97.89.174.47]) by aarprv04.charter.net with ESMTP id <20071127155240.GFCT17353.aarprv04.charter.net@agreenftp.no-ip.com>; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:52:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agreenftp.no-ip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F903980F; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:52:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from agreenftp.no-ip.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zeus.agreenftp.no-ip.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id No2UO7h1Lggi; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:52:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from hercules.nuvox.net (216.215.202.5.nw.nuvox.net [216.215.202.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: andy) by agreenftp.no-ip.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 634A13980B; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:52:37 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at agreenftp.no-ip.com Message-ID: <474C3D47.3010600@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:52:39 -0500 From: Andy Greenwood User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071101) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Chzlrs: 0 Cc: "Aryeh M. Friedman" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:27:54 -0000 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Aryeh M. Friedman [mailto:aryeh.friedman@gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:20 PM >> To: Ted Mittelstaedt >> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; FreeBSD chat >> Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law >> >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >> >>> Beastie's Law: >>> >>> Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website >>> using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically >>> wrong. >>> >> Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. >> > > It doesen't matter. What constitutes a Nazi comparison is also > very subjective. However, Godwin's law works anyway. > According to wikipedia (I am aware this isn't a real source) Godwin's law is defined thusly. As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. The law isn't subjective at all. It specifically requires the comparison of one of the points or platforms to those of Nazis or Hitler himself. The comparison itself could be as oblique or subjective as you want, but the fact is that it must DIRECTLY involve Nazis or Hitler. However, I don't agree that the proposed Beastie's Law is subjective either. It states that the person making the demands is using political incorrectness as one of their points as to why the change should be made. Whether or not everyone will agree on the political (in)correctness of the proposed change is irrelevant. > Ted > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 17:23:30 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B76316A41B; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:23:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (gizmo.acns.msu.edu [35.8.1.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A7F13C474; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:23:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lARHJ6Mc076890; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:19:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lARHJ5B8076889; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:19:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:19:05 -0500 From: Jerry McAllister To: Erich Dollansky Message-ID: <20071127171905.GA76551@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> <474BD8DE.90600@pacific.net.sg> <474BEDC1.5060204@pacific.net.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <474BEDC1.5060204@pacific.net.sg> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: Joshua Isom , freebsd-questions Questions , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:23:30 -0000 On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 06:13:21PM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > Hi, > > Joshua Isom wrote: > > > >On Nov 27, 2007, at 2:44 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > > > >>Joshua Isom wrote: > >>>On Nov 27, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: > >>>>Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > >> > >>>"Hitler was a good facist, he did his job well." > >> > >>no, he was a bad one. He finally lost > > > >But he lost in due part to his fascism, and his devotion to the > > he only lost because of the Germans sabotaging him. Not hardly. He lost because he was unable to see reality when it conflicted with his pre-made conclusions and 'plan' - something familiar in the USA at the moment. > > He was the last man standing saving the last bullet for himself. No, he committed suicide because he couldn't face up to the loss. > > >it was the fascism that lost the war. He discarded his country for his > >fascism. > > He gave his life for the country. Not really. In this he was a good facist -- he gave his country for his on well being and when his country was insufficient, he failed and bailed out. His was a classic case of what is often called the 'radical right syndrom' in psychology studies. It is a slight misnomer because there can be a similar pathology that features the political left, but it is not nearly as common. Deviants leaning in that direction tend to manifest it differently. Anyway, the basic synopsis is that he was encourated to perceive himself as a total loser during his formative years, primarily by an abusive father figure who also demanded that he be strong. He became, for a while, a mama's boy. But he was unable to contain the two conflicting perceptions - that of being an unsucessful loser and that he must be strong and successful - acquiring a severe case of something called cognative dissonance. Most people learn to blunt the extreme edges of these conflicts as they mature, but some cannot and must act out in some way. Adolf's way was anti-social in extreme. He did the classic thing for someone experiencing severe cognative disonance and found convenient places to offload his conflict - Jews and others who were popularly seen as misfits and often blamed for social problems - and, since this does not really relieve the problem, continued to escalate this attempt to offload his internal conflict. He was able to invent an image for himself which he used to recruit and hold followers who were also looking for ways to explain their failures and/or for relief from their bad condidtions, but he never really believed that image of himself and also had to escalate it continuously to support it so as not to fall back in to that unacceptable loser state. When it was finally no longer possible to support that image, he chose death, pretending it was the bold way, when actually it was just yet another way of avoiding the perceived reality that he had carried with him all his life. This syndrom, based on cognative disonance, is fairly common and is present in many of the terrorist types - especially the leaders, but not necessarily the followers whom they dupe in to believing their acts are ways of salvation from abuse rather than escapes from unacceptable internal conclicts. It is also apparent in some political leaders, including some currently prominent on the world stage, in varying intensities. Now, how does this fit in OS type questions. I'd really have to think hard to rationalize that. Sorry. ////jerry > > > > >>>Flame war anyone? > >> > >>Verbrannte Erde was the motto of his final campaign. > >> > >>The mother of all flame wars. > > > >Classic retreat strategy. Make the earth worthless. Kind of doesn't > >work when food keeps coming in, and not just grown. > > Classic? How wasted his own resources like this before? > > Erich > > PS: > > I hope real nazis never read this as they will not be able to understand > the irony in here > > > > >>Erich > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 17:23:52 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E823D16A468; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:23:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsilver@chrononomicon.com) Received: from trans-warp.net (hyperion.trans-warp.net [216.37.208.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2999E13C45B; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:23:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsilver@chrononomicon.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unverified [65.193.73.208]) by trans-warp.net (SurgeMail 3.8f2) with ESMTP id 144900668-1860479 for multiple; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:24:10 -0500 Message-ID: <474C52A3.9040406@chrononomicon.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:23:47 -0500 From: Bart Silverstrim User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <474BB706.4090505@gmail.com> <3E233CE162645D57F3F61284@utd59514.utdallas.edu> In-Reply-To: <3E233CE162645D57F3F61284@utd59514.utdallas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: bsilver@chrononomicon.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:23:52 -0000 Paul Schmehl wrote: > --On Tuesday, November 27, 2007 01:19:50 -0500 "Aryeh M. Friedman" > wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >>> Beastie's Law: >>> >>> Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website >>> using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically >>> wrong. >> >> Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. In some circles >> for example immigrants are "foreign born" and using the correct term >> is "wrong". >> >> > Could we please dump this crap from the questions list and carry it > forward on the chat list, where it belongs? It's getting very old. How about a law describing the time it takes for someone to start complaining that thread XYZ needs to be moved elsewhere where it truly belongs, thus both voicing their dislike of the thread and still prolonging and contributing to the noise at the same time? :-) -Bart From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 17:24:30 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2270816A417 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:24:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pauls@utdallas.edu) Received: from smtp3.utdallas.edu (smtp3.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EDE13C4D3 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:24:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pauls@utdallas.edu) Received: from utd59514.utdallas.edu (utd59514.utdallas.edu [129.110.3.28]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp3.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65FE865504; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:52:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:52:07 -0600 From: Paul Schmehl To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <3E233CE162645D57F3F61284@utd59514.utdallas.edu> In-Reply-To: <474BB706.4090505@gmail.com> References: <474BB706.4090505@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:24:30 -0000 --On Tuesday, November 27, 2007 01:19:50 -0500 "Aryeh M. Friedman" wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >> Beastie's Law: >> >> Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website >> using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically >> wrong. > > Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. In some circles > for example immigrants are "foreign born" and using the correct term > is "wrong". > > Could we please dump this crap from the questions list and carry it forward on the chat list, where it belongs? It's getting very old. -- Paul Schmehl (pauls@utdallas.edu) Senior Information Security Analyst The University of Texas at Dallas http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 17:44:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1DC16A41A; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:44:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D229713C461; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:43:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lARHhgl3029802; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:43:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id zm9+Hx+i+QG3; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:43:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (dsl.daleco.biz [209.125.108.70]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lARHhWGl029796; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:43:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <474C573F.4000403@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:43:27 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070418 SeaMonkey/1.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bart Silverstrim References: <474BB706.4090505@gmail.com> <3E233CE162645D57F3F61284@utd59514.utdallas.edu> <474C52A3.9040406@chrononomicon.com> In-Reply-To: <474C52A3.9040406@chrononomicon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:44:00 -0000 Bart Silverstrim wrote: > > > Paul Schmehl wrote: >> --On Tuesday, November 27, 2007 01:19:50 -0500 "Aryeh M. Friedman" >> wrote: >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >>>> Beastie's Law: >>>> >>>> Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website >>>> using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically >>>> wrong. >>> >>> Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. In some circles >>> for example immigrants are "foreign born" and using the correct term >>> is "wrong". >>> >>> >> Could we please dump this crap from the questions list and carry it >> forward on the chat list, where it belongs? It's getting very old. > > How about a law describing the time it takes for someone to start > complaining that thread XYZ needs to be moved elsewhere where it truly > belongs, thus both voicing their dislike of the thread and still > prolonging and contributing to the noise at the same time? > 10h42m in the present thread's case; if ($threadXYZ['title']=="who wrote this"), then it's 47h29m, or "approximately two days", which seems to be a more reasonable estimate based on my experience with the lists, and not taking into account whether or not the OP is a known troll, in which case it's 2 to 3 times faster, at least. :-D Kevin Kinsey -- An American's a person who isn't afraid to criticize the president but is always polite to traffic cops. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 27 22:15:23 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C3416A420 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:15:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: from mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E2A13C469 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:15:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: (qmail 7624 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2007 22:15:22 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 27 Nov 2007 22:15:22 -0000 Message-ID: <474C969A.5000605@chuckr.org> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:13:46 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071107 SeaMonkey/1.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Aryeh M. Friedman" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:15:23 -0000 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >>> Beastie's Law: >>> >>> Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website >>> using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically >>> wrong. >> Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. > > It doesen't matter. What constitutes a Nazi comparison is also > very subjective. However, Godwin's law works anyway. > Man, this leaves me confused as to how to respond. The notion of changing anything for the mere mention of political correctness is abhorrent, but OTOH, I do hate anything smelling of Naziism. And, finally, although I don't want to see changes in our web page done for PC, I really, really dislike the way our web pages are set up now, it's just so much harder to get thengs, so much more unpleasant, but I don't think I know enough about human-design to be able to give you a reasonable explanation of why I dislike our web page setup. I just do. Might that be a data point for you? I betcha a lot of others feel just exactly as I do. > Ted > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 01:11:15 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A9B16A417 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:11:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from icantthinkofone@charter.net) Received: from que02.charter.net (que02.charter.net [209.225.8.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C378D13C448 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:11:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from icantthinkofone@charter.net) Received: from aarprv02.charter.net ([10.20.200.72]) by mtao03.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20071128003007.TMAA19023.mtao03.charter.net@aarprv02.charter.net>; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:30:07 -0500 Received: from robs-laptop.com ([71.85.241.27]) by aarprv02.charter.net with ESMTP id <20071128003007.YJZH495.aarprv02.charter.net@robs-laptop.com>; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:30:07 -0500 Message-ID: <474CB68F.7090709@charter.net> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:30:07 -0600 From: icantthinkofone User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070914) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <474C3D47.3010600@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <474C3D47.3010600@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Chzlrs: 0 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:11:15 -0000 Andy Greenwood wrote: > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Aryeh M. Friedman [mailto:aryeh.friedman@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:20 PM >>> To: Ted Mittelstaedt >>> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; FreeBSD chat >>> Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law >>> >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >>> >>>> Beastie's Law: >>>> >>>> Any demand of a modification of FreeBSD or it's website >>>> using political incorrectness as the justification is automatically >>>> wrong. >>>> >>> Political Incorrectness is very subjective though. >>> >> >> It doesen't matter. What constitutes a Nazi comparison is also >> very subjective. However, Godwin's law works anyway. >> > > According to wikipedia (I am aware this isn't a real source) Godwin's > law is defined thusly. > > As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison > involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. > > The law isn't subjective at all. It specifically requires the > comparison of one of the points or platforms to those of Nazis or > Hitler himself. The comparison itself could be as oblique or > subjective as you want, but the fact is that it must DIRECTLY involve > Nazis or Hitler. > > However, I don't agree that the proposed Beastie's Law is subjective > either. It states that the person making the demands is using > political incorrectness as one of their points as to why the change > should be made. Whether or not everyone will agree on the political > (in)correctness of the proposed change is irrelevant. >> Ted >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Lose is spelled L-O-S-E. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 06:15:32 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1BA16A41B for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:15:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219CD13C43E for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:15:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from TEDSDESK (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id lAS6FHK5009000; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:15:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Jerry McAllister" , "Peo Nilsson" Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:17:00 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 In-Reply-To: <20071127172300.GB76551@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Importance: Normal Cc: FreeBSD chat Subject: RE: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 06:15:32 -0000 CC set to FreeBSD Chat (Jerry you deleted the wrong mailing list) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Jerry > McAllister > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:23 AM > To: Peo Nilsson > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law > > > > > Well, by "erasing" the history, no matter who "tried" > > to write it, the chance decrease... > > Hmmm. I have come to think that our writing our history condemns > us to repeat it rather than the other way around. With oral history > it is possible to creatively adjust it in each generation. With written > history, it is only creatively adjusted (no history is written truthfully) > when it is first written down which is the time it is least understood > or at least, least seen in perspective. > > Then, since it is written, we seem condemned to believing it rather > than making it useful to our needs. > Oral history has given us such nonsense as the "virgin" birth of Jesus, so that instead of history focusing on the truth inherent in what the guy was actually preaching, it instead focuses on an impossible asexual human reproduction event that in reality never happened. Yes, Virginia, Mary did feel Joseph's schlong. The next time you see a group of Christmas carolers, stop them and ask how many of them know what the Golden Rule is. 10-to-1 odds you will find at least 1 of them that can't tell you what it is. Written history is much, much better. Ted From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 07:07:51 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D12216A417 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:07:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sunnzy@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.233]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186C113C45D for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:07:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sunnzy@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l8so918905nzf for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:07:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=SwxzvPGtl4mvY0FftpZd+4VGm5m2Db/ZdkEQS7JRUSQ=; b=vpH4QWrEWkwCmGcgxmCon2qtJIZ5Uc9ZMOPc6cDp9qOYIOq+2zNVqBdeVj0jRFeUXYjzH4SThyChdLjz4K23hPcCP7nfNK+sg0W/DRoIXmbXF612yCtUUJeX1DA2ORrqcLHLcrMbRuQ5K9tevvKjlz3kMBNaFluu3H1YyW2N3lU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LZw8tnSlpd1IgLqvvWeH+/BDaK6z59PQSEZUBCvbknqfmKibHE5ZMSWpzJOVSvDaB6m5visZ1zH+BST4MjTWiI19k1k9dYbkugySmQGLlVwsa33JY2aiR9nvSfDOBDaZcwq22BWCyoOvF3rKbR3XQDAiZGVmXA7w9aKFWho6H6E= Received: by 10.115.49.16 with SMTP id b16mr91385wak.1196233669745; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.79.20 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:07:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:07:49 +1100 From: Sunnz To: "Fintan Gaughan" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200711231112.lANBCW1P004569@lurza.secnetix.de> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sunnzy+gnu@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:07:51 -0000 I LOVE TOP POSTING!!! 2007/11/26, Fintan Gaughan : > Oliver , > my post in between :-) > > > > On 23/11/2007, Oliver Fromme wrote: > > Fintan Gaughan wrote: > > > Well i am top posting cos gmail says so :-) > > > > gmail does not force you to top-post. (If it did, I would > > propose to ban gmail addresses from the mailing lists.) > > Go ahead , when replying it goes straight to the top.. how ever using > greasemonkey enabled you are not forced to top post. > > > > > > > From what i have been told that news group you don't top post but in > > > mail list such as this one its ok to top post. > > > > There's no such difference between news groups and mailing > > lists, at least from a user perspective. > > > To be honest using Mutt now that gmail enabled imap its much easier to > post in between or bottom post. > But when using gmail from web its easier to read top post. > > > > In fact, I do read the FreeBSD mailing lists via an NNTP > > gateway which stores them as news groups. I'm using a > > newsreader client to read them (ports/news/tin) instead > > of an email client. > > > > > Correct me if i am wrong but you can configure newsgroup reader to > > > scroll to bottom or post where with email clients you have to scroll > > > down to each one. > > > > I'm sorry but that's nonsense. It depends entirely on > > the kind of client software you're using, and how it is > > configured. It's _not_ a newsgroup vs. email thing. > > yes i agree with software using although i have never posted to a > newsgroup using the website but i would be suprised the default is top > post. > > > > > Apart from that, you're supposed to delete those parts > > of the quote that are irrelevant to your reply. You > > should keep only those parts that are required to > > understand the context. If you adhere to that rule, > > then the quoted text is small enough that having to > > scroll down is not a real issue. > > > > Those people who do not top-post, but don't delete any > > quoted text in a reasonable way either, aren't doing it > > right either. Normally you should _not_ see multiple > > pages of quoted text with tons of indentation. That's > > almost as bad as top-posting. > > > > In ancient times, everybody was posting correctly (i.e. > > with minimal but sufficient quoting, and writing the > > reply below). I guess because it was the most natural > > thing to do it that way, both for the person writing it > > and for the people reading it. The problem with top- > > posting started to appear when certain graphical clients > > started to become widely used which put the cursor at > > the top above the fully quote text, and users were too > > lazy to move down, delete irrelevant parts of the quote > > and write the answers below. Instead they just typed > > their text right away and klicked the "send" button. > > > > For example, almost the entire full quote that you you > > had below your reply was completely useless, confusing > > and a waste of space and bandwidth. > > > > Best regards > > Oliver > > > > Fair enough Oliver, but to be honest it does not bother me anyway > way, but how ever if there is a rule about top posting then i won't do > it. > But i am not going to lose sleep over this ... > > > Fintan > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 12:32:51 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D957D16A417 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:32:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2001:1b20:1:3::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4271913C461 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:32:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lASCWUjB037115; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:32:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lASCWSek037114; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:32:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:32:28 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200711281232.lASCWSek037114@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, soralx@cydem.org In-Reply-To: <20071126210924.389ae9ea@freen0de> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:32:38 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: 6.3 Pre-Release X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, soralx@cydem.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:32:51 -0000 soralx@cydem.org wrote: > > > What is the CVS tag for 6[.2]-STABLE then? > > Hi, I think that the tag for 6.2 is RELENG_6, revise handbook. > > nope, 'src-all tag=RELENG_6' with cvsup updated everything to > 6.3-PRERELEASE... All of that is explained in the handbook. The cvs tag of 6.2-RELEASE is RELENG_6_2_0_RELEASE. It never changes, so it doesn't make sense to update to it once you have it. The cvs tag of the 6.2 security branch (sometimes referred to as "6.2-stable", although this is a rather confusing name) is RELENG_6_2. It does mainly include security fixes only, but no bug fixes (except maybe very critical ones), and no new features. The cvs tag of the stable branch ("6-stable") is RELENG_6. It includes all bug fixes and new stuff merged from -current. When ever a new release is made, a new security "sub-branch" is created off the stable branch. If you followed -stable so far (i.e. RELENG_6), I suggest you continue to do so, especially if you don't have any problems so far. Just wait for 6.3-Release to become available, and then you can decide whether you stay with the 6.3 security branch (which will be RELENG_6_3) or continue to track 6-stable, or even jump on the FreeBSD 7 train. Going back to the 6.2 security branch would be a step backwards. Don't do that unless you have problems that would be fixed by that step. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb." -- Steve Haflich, in comp.lang.c++ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 12:33:48 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3ADC16A478 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:33:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (gizmo.acns.msu.edu [35.8.1.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA6613C45D for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:33:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id lASCTD8k081066; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:29:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id lASCTDkY081065; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:29:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:29:13 -0500 From: Jerry McAllister To: Ted Mittelstaedt Message-ID: <20071128122913.GA81027@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: <20071127172300.GB76551@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: Jerry McAllister , FreeBSD chat , Peo Nilsson Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:33:48 -0000 On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 10:17:00PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > CC set to FreeBSD Chat (Jerry you deleted the wrong mailing list) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Jerry > > McAllister > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:23 AM > > To: Peo Nilsson > > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law > > > > > > > > Well, by "erasing" the history, no matter who "tried" > > > to write it, the chance decrease... > > > > Hmmm. I have come to think that our writing our history condemns > > us to repeat it rather than the other way around. With oral history > > it is possible to creatively adjust it in each generation. With written > > history, it is only creatively adjusted (no history is written truthfully) > > when it is first written down which is the time it is least understood > > or at least, least seen in perspective. > > > > Then, since it is written, we seem condemned to believing it rather > > than making it useful to our needs. > > > > Oral history has given us such nonsense as the "virgin" birth of > Jesus, so that instead of history focusing on the truth inherent > in what the guy was actually preaching, it instead focuses on > an impossible asexual human reproduction event that in reality > never happened. Yes, Virginia, Mary did feel Joseph's schlong. > > The next time you see a group of Christmas carolers, stop them > and ask how many of them know what the Golden Rule is. 10-to-1 > odds you will find at least 1 of them that can't tell you what it > is. > > Written history is much, much better. Well, I am not convinced. That virgin birth stuff was needed by a people in that time (to comfort some followers and prove to others that they were just as good as the other popular religions of the day who all had miracle births), but if it had not been written, it may well have been dropped in later times - or it might have grown in to something more interesting for todays kiddies.. Of course, since writing/reading is a core skill in getting our society where it is today, it is impossible to know what the total picture would be without it at all and it is unlikely that writing/reading could have existed for "science" and not for writing history. But, the fact remains that history is not accurately recorded and we are condemned to try and relive (in some way) the untrue history. We are constantly looking back to the good old days -- that never were like that. ////jerry > Ted > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 13:46:49 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C2016A417 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E410013C44B for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F16F208A; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:46:39 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.1/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 656E62089; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:46:39 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1EC9284485; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:46:39 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Kevin Kinsey References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> <474C392E.3000607@daleco.biz> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:46:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <474C392E.3000607@daleco.biz> (Kevin Kinsey's message of "Tue\, 27 Nov 2007 09\:35\:10 -0600") Message-ID: <86r6iapjnk.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Joshua Isom , Erich Dollansky , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - who wrote it? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:46:49 -0000 Kevin Kinsey writes: > So, just to make sure I understand: Hitler created television > to rot our brains, Stalin ported Opera and Flash to Palm OS, and RMS > is a closet fascist who's pushing Youtube onto the Verizon network? > > Does it follow that Rush Limbaugh is the Promised One, then? We've come full circle! The last flame war we had about the fortunes file was triggered by a batch of Rush Limbaugh quotes... DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 17:40:31 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E8716A468 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:40:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 268EC13C455 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:40:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lASHeQow049500; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:40:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id VmMZe2wx3tfI; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:40:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (dsl.daleco.biz [209.125.108.70]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lASHeHWo049492; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:40:19 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <474DA7F9.1080703@daleco.biz> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:40:09 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070418 SeaMonkey/1.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> <474C392E.3000607@daleco.biz> <86r6iapjnk.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86r6iapjnk.fsf@ds4.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Joshua Isom , Erich Dollansky , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - who wrote it? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:40:31 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Kevin Kinsey writes: >> So, just to make sure I understand: Hitler created television >> to rot our brains, Stalin ported Opera and Flash to Palm OS, and RMS >> is a closet fascist who's pushing Youtube onto the Verizon network? >> >> Does it follow that Rush Limbaugh is the Promised One, then? > > We've come full circle! The last flame war we had about the fortunes > file was triggered by a batch of Rush Limbaugh quotes... Of course, now the question is, was this by chance, on purpose, inevitable Evolution, or proof of Intelligent Design? :-D Or maybe we should formulate a new law? $ChanceOfRegression= ($ThreadlifeMinutes/($n[posts] + $n[participants]) "For any flame war on the FBSD lists, the chance that the thread will return to the subject of the previous flame war is equal to the thread's lifetime in minutes divided by the some of the number of posts and number of participants?"* Kevin Kinsey -- * a casual glance shows that if this is true, our chance of reverting to Rush Limbaugh was about 43 percent, and increasing by the hour. Life is a concentration camp. You're stuck here and there's no way out and you can only rage impotently against your persecutors. -- Woody Allen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 18:40:45 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B86416A46D for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:40:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bri@brianwhalen.net) Received: from numail.brianwhalen.net (dsl093-034-172.snd1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.34.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C2013C4EC for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bri@brianwhalen.net) Received: from numail.brianwhalen.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by numail.brianwhalen.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lASI1ubs017957 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:01:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bri@brianwhalen.net) Received: from localhost (bri@localhost) by numail.brianwhalen.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) with ESMTP id lASI1uc7017953 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:01:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bri@brianwhalen.net) X-Authentication-Warning: numail.brianwhalen.net: bri owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:01:55 -0800 (PST) From: Brian To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20071128095933.I57641@numail.brianwhalen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: freebsd-update X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:40:45 -0000 It is interesting that if you run freebsd-update on a 6.2 system, you get an end of life approaching please upgrade message. This is surprising since either of the upgrade targets are not yet released. Additionally, the phrase End of Life has pretty strong conntations. Brian From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 20:43:46 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01A0216A417 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:43:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from pih-relay05.plus.net (pih-relay05.plus.net [212.159.14.132]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B0D713C4D9 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:43:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from [84.92.156.191] (helo=jayton.plus.com) by pih-relay05.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1IxTkt-0002x3-Dr; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:43:35 +0000 Message-ID: <474DD2FD.8030707@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:43:41 +0000 From: Jayton Garnett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071120) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Jerry McAllister , FreeBSD chat , Peo Nilsson Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:43:46 -0000 Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > CC set to FreeBSD Chat (Jerry you deleted the wrong mailing list) > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >> [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Jerry >> McAllister >> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:23 AM >> To: Peo Nilsson >> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >> Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law >> >> >>> Well, by "erasing" the history, no matter who "tried" >>> to write it, the chance decrease... >>> >> Hmmm. I have come to think that our writing our history condemns >> us to repeat it rather than the other way around. With oral history >> it is possible to creatively adjust it in each generation. With written >> history, it is only creatively adjusted (no history is written truthfully) >> when it is first written down which is the time it is least understood >> or at least, least seen in perspective. >> >> Then, since it is written, we seem condemned to believing it rather >> than making it useful to our needs. >> >> > > Oral history has given us such nonsense as the "virgin" birth of > Jesus, so that instead of history focusing on the truth inherent > in what the guy was actually preaching, it instead focuses on > an impossible asexual human reproduction event that in reality > never happened. Yes, Virginia, Mary did feel Joseph's schlong. > > Without getting into a massive religious debate... Too you it may not seem possible and you can't get your head around it, but this does not mean it is impossible. Say God was an alien as some groups exclaim? Then would you say it was possible for her to have been pregnant without the old ding dong? So if aliens could do it, Why couldn't God? (If God were not an alien) Jay > The next time you see a group of Christmas carolers, stop them > and ask how many of them know what the Golden Rule is. 10-to-1 > odds you will find at least 1 of them that can't tell you what it > is. > > Written history is much, much better. > > Ted > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 21:04:16 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F196B16A418 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:04:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from ptb-relay03.plus.net (ptb-relay03.plus.net [212.159.14.214]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E6F13C45A for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:04:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from [84.92.156.191] (helo=jayton.plus.com) by ptb-relay03.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1IxU4t-0007PE-Tj for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:04:16 +0000 Message-ID: <474DD7D6.7000706@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:04:22 +0000 From: Jayton Garnett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071120) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20071128095933.I57641@numail.brianwhalen.net> In-Reply-To: <20071128095933.I57641@numail.brianwhalen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: freebsd-update X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:04:17 -0000 Brian wrote: > It is interesting that if you run freebsd-update on a 6.2 system, you > get an end of life approaching please upgrade message. This is > surprising since either of the upgrade targets are not yet released. > Additionally, the phrase End of Life has pretty strong conntations. Thats odd, never knew FreeBSD had an EoL, other than support ceasing for older releases, which is most likely refers to. But surely 6.2 is still to be supported for a few more years?! anywho... change that message, It might be a PC issue - "In the spirit of Godwin's law...." If you've been following ^_^ > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 22:02:38 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72DC16A420 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:02:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bmah@freebsd.org) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB7B13C474 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:02:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bmah@freebsd.org) Received: from dhcp-1-248.packetdesign.com (firewall-gw-dirty-n.packetdesign.com [65.87.20.98]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id lASM2YXc032636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:38 -0800 Message-ID: <474DE57A.60601@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:02:34 -0800 From: "Bruce A. Mah" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jayton Garnett References: <20071128095933.I57641@numail.brianwhalen.net> <474DD7D6.7000706@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <474DD7D6.7000706@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: id=5ba052c3 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig7DBAA1F9EC704F10AC198291" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd-update X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:02:38 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig7DBAA1F9EC704F10AC198291 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If memory serves me right, Jayton Garnett wrote: > Brian wrote: >> It is interesting that if you run freebsd-update on a 6.2 system, you = >> get an end of life approaching please upgrade message. This is=20 >> surprising since either of the upgrade targets are not yet released.=20 >> Additionally, the phrase End of Life has pretty strong conntations. EOL is a commonly-used term in the software industry. For FreeBSD, it is the point past which a given release will no longer be supported by security advisories/patches, as well as freebsd-update. > Thats odd, never knew FreeBSD had an EoL, other than support ceasing fo= r=20 > older releases, which is most likely refers to. But surely 6.2 is still= =20 > to be supported for a few more years?! This page gives the official EOL dates for the various FreeBSD releases, as well as more information surrounding this term. As I write this, the estimated EOL for 6.2-RELEASE is 31 May 2008. http://security.freebsd.org/ There were postings to stable@ and security@ about this message...if I remember right the basic gist was that freebsd-update(8) makes some assumptions about when the EOL date that turned out not to be true due to delays in 6.3-RELEASE, and that this message can be safely ignored. Bruce. --------------enig7DBAA1F9EC704F10AC198291 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHTeV62MoxcVugUsMRAk74AJsEEMTIufevYmdoakLurJiy8ZzLRgCguMPG Gh/C+89Vcc/QhvnTQC46NYw= =eYRs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig7DBAA1F9EC704F10AC198291-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 29 09:25:56 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7FF16A419 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:25:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.31]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 971B913C467 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:25:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 14797 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2007 09:25:53 -0000 Received: from adsl2.dyn234.pacific.net.sg (HELO P2120.somewherefaraway.com) (oceanare@210.24.234.2) by smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg with ESMTPA; 29 Nov 2007 09:25:52 -0000 Message-ID: <474E8592.4020209@pacific.net.sg> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:25:38 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070826) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jerry McAllister References: <474BC22F.5070109@gmail.com> <474BC808.6040507@pacific.net.sg> <474BD8DE.90600@pacific.net.sg> <474BEDC1.5060204@pacific.net.sg> <20071127171905.GA76551@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20071127171905.GA76551@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Joshua Isom , freebsd-questions Questions , FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: In the spirit of Godwin's law - I propose Beastie's law X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:25:56 -0000 Hi, Jerry McAllister wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 06:13:21PM +0800, Erich Dollansky wrote: > >> Joshua Isom wrote: >>> On Nov 27, 2007, at 2:44 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: >>> >>>> Joshua Isom wrote: >>>>> On Nov 27, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Erich Dollansky wrote: >>>>>> Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > > His was a classic case of what is often called the 'radical right syndrom' I never have heard of this bevore. > Now, how does this fit in OS type questions. I'd really have to think > hard to rationalize that. Sorry. > Nobody seems to know this at all anymore. >> >> PS: >> >> I hope real nazis never read this as they will not be able to understand >> the irony in here >> From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 29 23:33:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26AC016A41B for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:33:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from green.dls.net (green.dls.net [209.242.20.84]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DF113C4CC for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:33:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from emailrob.com (216-145-235-20.rev.dls.net [216.145.235.20]) by green.dls.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCEE0412548; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:05:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <474F45E5.6070907@emailrob.com> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:06:13 +0000 From: spellberg_robert User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fbsd_chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: request for -politics-chat mailing list X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:33:13 -0000 greetings, all --- this was, originally, a parenthetical aside in my other post, but, on reflection, because it is a different concept, i have placed it into its own post for the benefit of those, if any, who want to weigh in. my aside commenceth: [ before i get to my point, permit me to make a recommendation to the powers that be. i believe that more political speech is better than less. clearly, some people on -chat enjoy discussing such topics. just as clearly, others don't want to get involved. i recommend the creation of a new list, "-politics-chat", or some_such similar moniker, for such people. those who want, subscribe; those who don't, don't. those who can handle it, stay; those who can't, leave. i call this "live and let live". i, for one, am not looking for a flame_fest. i seek a reasoned, at times spirited, debate with people more likely than the general population to be book_readers [ so few, these days ]. ] thank you for your consideration. rob From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 29 23:33:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E80A16A420 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:33:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from green.dls.net (green.dls.net [209.242.20.84]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01CFF13C469 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:33:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from emailrob.com (216-145-235-20.rev.dls.net [216.145.235.20]) by green.dls.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A18A412728; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:04:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <474F45B3.1010007@emailrob.com> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:05:23 +0000 From: spellberg_robert User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fbsd_chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: book recommendation [ was: multiple threads ] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:33:13 -0000 greetings, all --- wowie zowie ! i thought -chat was dead. i wake up from a week_long tryptophan_induced slumber to find four positively ripping rants. collectively [ pun intended ], you have restored my faith [ pun intended ] in -chat. one of the nice things about the -chat crowd is that there is a high proportion of book_readers in it. so, for those of you who have some free time available [ what else are you going to do this time of year ? customize malloc(3) ? ], permit me to suggest some seriously informative reading. after the war, hannah arendt [ b 1906 ] sought to explain hitler_ism and stalin_ism to a stunned and weary world. in 1950, she published her research in book form, under the title of "the origins of totalitarianism". she revised this, circa 1958, to take into account post_stalin [ d 1953 ] developments and revised it again, circa 1968. she passed on in 1975. i had known of the work during my undergraduate days [ class of 1979 ], but, as an engineering major, who has the time for a 600_plus page hard_cover when it isn't in the curriculum ? none_the_less, as i matured and found time for non_geek reading [ history, politics, policy; analytical, but, not mathematical ], the frequency of its citation prompted me to, finally, acquire a copy upon the occasion [ 2004 ] of its re_publication by schocken books. this is the 1968 edition. [ not much here ] http://www.randomhouse.com/schocken/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780805242256 [ somewhat more here ] http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Totalitarianism-Introduction-Samantha-Power/dp/0805242252/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196375607&sr=1-3 not counting all of the extras, the work breaks down like this: a] [ ~ 160 pp, 4 chap ] anti_semitism; b] [ ~ 230 pp, 5 chap ] imperialism; c] [ ~ 230 pp, 4 chap ] totalitarianism. i --finally-- got around to it this past winter and spring. what a page_turner [ relatively speaking ] ! it took me two solid months of weekends to read it, because i could only go a few pages before some historical circumstance reminded me of something contemporaneous. the shallow will consider this work to be dated, but of historical interest. the perspicacious will recognize this as current. the first part presents the history of the jews in europe since the rise of the nation_state, out of feudalism. the author explains how many jews came to be considered "citizens of the world", why this was good and why this was bad for both the jews --and-- the gentiles. this will explain why, today, some jews are fervent capitalists and why some jews are fervent communists. the second part presents a history of the european economic experience from circa_1790 through circa_1920. with this material, even the casual reader will recognize that the angst_ridden, plaid_shirt_clad, curt_cobain_strumming, designer_coffee_clutching, anti_"globalization"_kvetching, bath_needing, street_marching teeny_bopper is "clueless in seattle" when she shouts "down with amerikan imperialism". the third part is the meat of the book. the impatient reader --could-- start here, directly, but, that reader will miss out on references to the earlier parts. if you have the time, start at the beginning. the open_minded will find this part most enlightening. those with unshakable prejudice will fear to tread. in this part, the author explains how hitler_ism is, contrary to popular misunderstanding, like stalin_ism, left_wing; just, not quite so --far-- to the left. didn't you wonder, when you first learned of the english translation of "nsdap" [ national socialist german workers party ], how a "socialist workers" party could be right_wing [ come on, now; how many right_wing socialists do you know ] ? the communists proclaimed them so. the communists don't want political competition [ they don't want economic competition, either; but, i digress ], so, everyone who wasn't one of them became a "right_winger". from their perspective, they were. we see this today in american mass_media. the "cnn_types" proclaim "fox news" to be "right_wing". actually, fox news is "left_wing", just not as far to the left as the "clinton_news_network". this is the type of book that will be enjoyed, so_to_speak, by true intellectuals. almost every page has a footnote. it is not unusual to find pages where the citations and supplemental material take up more real_estate on the page than the exposition [ i like citations; they make me think the author may have done some research ]. it will appeal to the analytical brain. further, even in hard_cover [ recommended ], it is remarkably inexpensive at your favorite online retailer. it is an excellent choice for your solstice_gift list. in conclusion, this book should be required_reading for every secondary_school student; their sixteenth birthday is about the right time. for those who want video to go with it, on dvd, "the world at war", laurence olivier, narrator, 1974, is still the best; http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071075/ as supplementary dvd, you want the documentaries of leni riefenstahl http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0726166/ "triumph of the will", 1935, and "olympia", parts one and two, 1938. rob From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 30 19:42:32 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D497E16A417 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:42:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from ptb-relay03.plus.net (ptb-relay03.plus.net [212.159.14.214]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67AD13C447 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:42:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jayton.garnett@gmail.com) Received: from [84.92.156.191] (helo=jayton.plus.com) by ptb-relay03.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1IyBkt-0002Oj-6u for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:42:31 +0000 Message-ID: <475067AB.6080704@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:42:35 +0000 From: Jayton Garnett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071120) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Samsung G600 won't connect! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:42:32 -0000 Hi all, Anyone had any luck mounting the memory card inside a Samsung G600 on FreeBSD 6.2/6.3PR? My Samsung G600 when plugged in does not create any da* devices in /dev as other USB memory sticks/cards do. My old Motorola L7 SLVR was mounted as a da device, but this Samsung G600 won't and it's really annoying. Here is the output of usbdevs -v jayton# usbdevs -v Controller /dev/usb0: addr 1: full speed, self powered, config 1, OHCI root hub(0x0000), nVidia(0x0000), rev 1.00 port 1 powered port 2 powered port 3 powered port 4 powered port 5 powered port 6 powered port 7 powered port 8 powered port 9 powered port 10 addr 2: low speed, power 100 mA, config 1, Optical USB Mouse(0xc016), Logitech(0x046d), rev 3.40 Controller /dev/usb1: addr 1: high speed, self powered, config 1, EHCI root hub(0x0000), nVidia(0x0000), rev 1.00 port 1 powered port 2 powered port 3 powered port 4 powered port 5 powered port 6 powered port 7 powered port 8 powered port 9 addr 2: high speed, self powered, config 1, USB2.0 Hub(0x0606), vendor 0x05e3(0x05e3), rev 7.02 port 1 addr 3: high speed, power 500 mA, config 1, SAMSUNG SGHG600 USB Device(0x0904), SAMSUNG(0x09fc), rev 0.00 port 2 powered port 3 powered port 4 powered port 10 powered So it is detected, great! I tried my USB stick, works fine, my Motorola, works fine... change back to this phone and nothing! Argh! Would this be a FreeBSD or Samsung issue? I'm thinking maybe Samsung I've contacted Samsung but I doubt they will know. It connects straight away under XP. -- Kind Regards, Jayton Garnett Http://www.uberhacker.co.uk From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 30 22:38:46 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D8616A420 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:38:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7F313C469 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:38:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAUMciki091175; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:38:45 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id kC26JOTuXjEf; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:38:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (dsl.daleco.biz [209.125.108.70]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAUMcbWu091171; Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:38:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <475090E8.5090806@daleco.biz> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:38:32 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070418 SeaMonkey/1.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jayton Garnett References: <475067AB.6080704@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <475067AB.6080704@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD chat Subject: Re: Samsung G600 won't connect! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:38:46 -0000 Jayton Garnett wrote: > Hi all, > > Anyone had any luck mounting the memory card inside a Samsung G600 on > FreeBSD 6.2/6.3PR? > My Samsung G600 when plugged in does not create any da* devices in /dev > as other USB memory sticks/cards do. > My old Motorola L7 SLVR was mounted as a da device, but this Samsung > G600 won't and it's really annoying. > > Here is the output of usbdevs -v > > jayton# usbdevs -v > Controller /dev/usb0: > addr 1: full speed, self powered, config 1, OHCI root hub(0x0000), > nVidia(0x0000), rev 1.00 > port 1 powered > port 2 powered > port 3 powered > port 4 powered > port 5 powered > port 6 powered > port 7 powered > port 8 powered > port 9 powered > port 10 addr 2: low speed, power 100 mA, config 1, Optical USB > Mouse(0xc016), Logitech(0x046d), rev 3.40 > Controller /dev/usb1: > addr 1: high speed, self powered, config 1, EHCI root hub(0x0000), > nVidia(0x0000), rev 1.00 > port 1 powered > port 2 powered > port 3 powered > port 4 powered > port 5 powered > port 6 powered > port 7 powered > port 8 powered > port 9 addr 2: high speed, self powered, config 1, USB2.0 Hub(0x0606), > vendor 0x05e3(0x05e3), rev 7.02 > port 1 addr 3: high speed, power 500 mA, config 1, SAMSUNG SGHG600 USB > Device(0x0904), SAMSUNG(0x09fc), rev 0.00 > port 2 powered > port 3 powered > port 4 powered > port 10 powered > > > So it is detected, great! I tried my USB stick, works fine, my Motorola, > works fine... change back to this phone and nothing! > Argh! Would this be a FreeBSD or Samsung issue? I'm thinking maybe Samsung > I've contacted Samsung but I doubt they will know. It connects straight > away under XP. > Just a thought, and maybe you've already thought. When I have USB "attach" issues, I generally kill usbd and start it again with the -d flag, then plug in the device in question. HTH, KDK -- Marxist Law of Distribution of Wealth: Shortages will be divided equally among the peasants.