From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 2 10:01:41 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4DF16A417 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:01:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com (mu-out-0910.google.com [209.85.134.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B640713C469 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:01:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i10so1227935mue for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:01:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=I96toXpKtjN4ji76zzCY5eV67cM5pNnH8fkVrDVpzEs=; b=P3+y9XW5wa0erzkzaswLfFKzZqLhnwK/D+qGV3j+7Pxc2JvWSouGEOO9lynPbNbozHEaMk5XHL7cVSsVIZxy6xpaiwmeNvuHccFLh0NRjy4onZj4vxXku4ys0RANe79Yp3Z8coip/QM6nOCVHdSoS2yreO9/zNuAhyxB52Zllkk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=sN+c5hPaNBRaaB4le27zeu/H0t9M5RqajRNPERz9vK550h9ELoOWohCDJvpbSQ4heLEBmGcJcZjiabyDfva+haoIRJKHAZ825PV4qflqYPtWSeJyMMesTC4bK0W6tcHbqgPlBjArLJd8us4s4+nZym1Xn1Vn8PsKl+up3UZDGII= Received: by 10.64.3.9 with SMTP id 9mr3744592qbc.1196589696468; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:01:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f12sm6053571qba.2007.12.02.02.01.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:01:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 05:01:35 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071129) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:01:41 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As has been hashed out in -ports@ over the last few days there is at least a need to examine weither or not the current ports system should remain as is or potentially be re-engineered in the future (estimates if and when needed vary from ASAP to 10-15 years). I have volunteered to undertake a feasibility/pilot project to examine what changes (if any) are needed in the system (for the purposes of this thread I will not venture any of my own suggestions). I have the following broad questions for people: 1. What is more important to your personal use of FreeBSD (the ports system, the underlaying OS, some other aspect)? 2. How frequently do you interact with the ports systems and what is the most common interaction you have with it? 3. What is the single best aspect of the current system? 4. What is the single worst aspect of the current system? 5. If you where a new FreeBSD user how would your answers above change? If you where brand new to UNIX how whould they change? 6. Assuming that there was no additional work on your behalf would you use a new system if it corrected your answer to number 4? 7. Same as question 6 but for your answer on question 3? 8. How long have you used FreeBSD and/or UNIX in general? 9. That is your primary use(s) for your FreeBSD machine(s) (name upto 3)? 10. Assuming there is no functional difference what is your preferred installation method for 3rd party software? 11. On a scale from 1 to 10 (10 being the best) please rate the importance of the following aspects of the ports system? a. User Interface b. Consistency of behaviors and interactions c. Accuracy in dependant port installations d. Internal record keeping e. Granularity's of the port management system 12. Please rate your personal technical skill level? - -- Aryeh M. Friedman FloSoft Systems Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHUoJ/358R5LPuPvsRAsXMAJ9w4tU/uFbm30lAmVI2foESX4wRwQCg7SPD j3s4YmZv+qHIt2iQjN1NPxg= =0ScV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 2 10:55:39 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FB4916A41A for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:55:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C98213C45A for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:55:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so6166562pyb for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:55:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ACsRv6CJZydEQhlzvhMSfNWgb4s4KtqSPpeWecHdWBo=; b=auN4FP8knDvpxCt7kn8UQytUX83BroOfBc5y6j3vHMDHnaLuv6elhw1uOZ9fHOqHDYmXw0SgBw86VGll1DnP2r+NcdCPXknNHSD0HnbJJoxQFc5Uko2EV2eB56RAX8+NuxhtnJP+kQCFew+kVjpLaSfuJcs43DkvjLr5KKhPqBU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nXegU1WPYRkXwLv40KFFrBbSbeEOGeSEocDmrxvfYNTn/c6gnHlmFsAeoOmoaD4qF2qsrzKDS3sK40xT+cdrj5ljab4kbUdRI6gXfjtEU88raoZxpbYrKu//SE3cuhC9kq9VxDXfXO16ZRzazdwMFdHJf0FkliVcf3HxvOR6a0Y= Received: by 10.65.180.9 with SMTP id h9mr22871144qbp.1196592938335; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:55:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e15sm6203285qba.2007.12.02.02.55.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:55:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47528F23.4040409@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 05:55:31 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071129) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:55:39 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > > 7. Same as question 6 but for your answer on question 3? > Several people said the wording was bad so here is the reworded question: 7. If a new system broke the best aspects of the current ports system would you use the new or old system? - -- Aryeh M. Friedman FloSoft Systems Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHUo8i358R5LPuPvsRAihEAKCODsX8kX+lgQ5QfDbaM6VsyoIOqQCeOl8Z E/kabmFPhpeQpoZT6KD1hao= =n65u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 2 13:17:49 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B1516A417 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:17:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D5C13C467 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:17:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from kobe.laptop (vader.bytemobile-rio.ondsl.gr [83.235.57.37]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.14.1/8.14.1/Debian-9) with ESMTP id lB2CvbA9015925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:58:42 +0200 Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id lB2CvSId001693; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:58:41 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id lB23nK9U016238; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 05:49:20 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 05:49:19 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: sunnzy+gnu@gmail.com Message-ID: <20071202034919.GA1217@kobe.laptop> References: <200711231112.lANBCW1P004569@lurza.secnetix.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-3.999, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.40, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Fintan Gaughan , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: top posting (off-topic) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:17:49 -0000 On 2007-11-28 18:07, Sunnz wrote: > I LOVE TOP POSTING!!! > > 2007/11/26, Fintan Gaughan : > > [snip long quote] Thanks for sharing that. You didn't really need to include a long quote beneath your text to let us know, however ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 2 14:48:33 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E53DF16A418 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:48:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBD313C448 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:48:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so6256326pyb for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 06:48:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xaIEGngcb8eanyQ4Ptvxk1a2Zf0ZtPvCmEqKqJVBMEY=; b=YR+N9I1zxECqUyQH7LprlcRkwSxVO2T45xkZlbFpB28V5B/2xvs+dPwlAfIQD1Do8AFDVI8v+YvaViSIDrtWdslxASLYnet1LmxSXD+bxwjFNY26iTSC1aW/BE8PzpXPVSqT71czD0BOr1bjQYC08BgL9aZyE5+YBsGGJuoIpu0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=M39RUdK6Y24FZjWsPYxU33pKtVZHNppTzrvkHrTsbWKZS8VMaj2usnf2OV+/rB7lslxOeL6c89/b4NF2d5s88kDs+1qyEMBEEw6Bi0F9lxZzANzAWkgtKkd0fgwZ1NrvVYGJHiLNNPNlSDbJsxAKckcEypjypaLxzoAlhaC73qE= Received: by 10.65.81.10 with SMTP id i10mr1198703qbl.1196606911197; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 06:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e16sm6250198qbe.2007.12.02.06.48.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 06:48:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4752C5BD.7020304@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 09:48:29 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071129) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Langille References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> <20071202093625.D63241@laptop.unixathome.org> In-Reply-To: <20071202093625.D63241@laptop.unixathome.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:48:34 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I promised not to venture my opinion on things but this one needs it > > Too much talk from people not willing to do the heavy lifting. > There have been a number of serious attempts and in depth research into various ports system issues (I still need to wade through a rather long one sent to me privately)... an other question did you read the preamble to this thread at all? (where it says I have volunteered to do the "heavy lifting" for anything that comes out this discussion [two others privately asked to also be involved]) - -- Aryeh M. Friedman FloSoft Systems Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHUsW9358R5LPuPvsRAmAHAJ9rjRvYBVFObiJ3ln3l1Rt4rjJQgwCgtvp8 YkY7kik0AqbLlvmfz5mHNXc= =7LUk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 2 15:08:58 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10AEE16A41B for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:08:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from hiltonsmtp.worldspice.net (net-216-37-94-60.in-addr.worldspice.net [216.37.94.60]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4FCE13C4D9 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:08:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: (qmail 2557 invoked by uid 0); 2 Dec 2007 14:35:29 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.2.0 ppid: 2552, pid: 2553, t: 0.5075s scanners: clamav: 0.91.2/m: spam: 3.2.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on hiltonsmtp.worldspice.net X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.7 Bayes=0.5000 required=6.5 autolearn=no version=3.2.3 report= * 0.6 HTTP_1 BODY: HTTP_1 * 1.1 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 40 to 60% * [score: 0.5000] Received: from unknown (HELO ?172.28.172.66?) (12.198.117.130) by hiltonsmtp.worldspice.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 2007 14:35:28 -0000 Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 09:41:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@laptop.unixathome.org To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" In-Reply-To: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071202093625.D63241@laptop.unixathome.org> References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:08:58 -0000 On Sun, 2 Dec 2007, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > 3. What is the single best aspect of the current system? Good people doing the heavy lifting > 4. What is the single worst aspect of the current system? Too much talk from people not willing to do the heavy lifting. > 8. How long have you used FreeBSD and/or UNIX in general? Since 1998. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 2 21:12:16 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A159016A421; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:12:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phi@evilphi.com) Received: from mail.twinthornes.com (mail.twinthornes.com [65.75.198.147]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC4D13C47E; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:12:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phi@evilphi.com) Received: from [10.9.70.109] (pool-71-117-232-141.ptldor.fios.verizon.net [71.117.232.141]) by mail.twinthornes.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A14964B; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 12:45:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47531971.5050402@evilphi.com> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:45:37 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> <20071202093625.D63241@laptop.unixathome.org> <4752C5BD.7020304@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4752C5BD.7020304@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:12:16 -0000 Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: >> Too much talk from people not willing to do the heavy lifting. > > There have been a number of serious attempts and in depth research > into various ports system issues (I still need to wade through a > rather long one sent to me privately)... an other question did you > read the preamble to this thread at all? (where it says I have > volunteered to do the "heavy lifting" for anything that comes out this > discussion [two others privately asked to also be involved]) What he's saying is that there have been many before you who have said and promised the same. Ideas get hashed out and we build amazing bike-sheds, but there has seldom been real product. What you have yet to do is distinguish yourself from history. In short, patches please. Until then, don't expect enthusiastic encouragement. -- Darren Pilgrim From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 2 21:20:08 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E1E16A46B for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:20:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmendez@energyhq.be) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4EC13C47E for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:20:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmendez@energyhq.be) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b2so2581684nfb for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.151.3 with SMTP id y3mr5413715hud.1196628905003; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:55:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mindfields.energyhq.be ( [88.6.12.61]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 35sm4282077nfu.2007.12.02.12.55.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:55:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: From: Miguel Mendez To: Aryeh M. Friedman In-Reply-To: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:54:59 +0100 References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:20:08 -0000 On Dec 2, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: Hi, > As has been hashed out in -ports@ over the last few days there is at > least a need to examine weither or not the current ports system should > remain as is or potentially be re-engineered in the future (estimates > if and when needed vary from ASAP to 10-15 years). I have > volunteered to undertake a feasibility/pilot project to examine what > changes (if any) are needed in the system (for the purposes of this > thread I will not venture any of my own suggestions). I have the > following broad questions for people: I already replied to your questions in private but I wonder if you took a look at pkgsrc and the enhancements the OpenBSD people have done the pkg* commands and whether you think borrowing from them would be useful. Cheers, Miguel Mendez mmendez@energyhq.be http://www.energyhq.be PGP Key: 0xDC8514F1 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 06:36:56 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB84D16A417 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B0E13C44B for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so6801086pyb for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:36:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=acWk+iRfQFLFLhEY/qDrmP2to+dUFCqIR0KBCctvWr0=; b=lvIOfzqiGNTt1iU61GZGgAA3YIb3RjZyA8oOoXGeJ5EnG8Attok6HQbrA8C6DMu9rpuil958MjN6zETEtf2ArHoKGIaRf65BLnWmTontFMHFyJuZ1Xp4ICXB9BIQKiShqj2tcEaMXLW9PkpiJZdxKdRrVTylx9FvSXNIF5L2IY0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=bspKeM4YB8+71xyIUbTQkNoVCcg1WgKM+zWKjjfEJ0zrk+l+YjsN5J9RNOC9w9jYdNAlZfjrQt64/GyXaAlt6YJEUxaSNA0yC1bw9GT/DWq2DBtBoMqyO2JIT5qvwk/EVoJpaVU9+y22n1ke7dIOzzxLNaKSB15u+bd6TelXbIk= Received: by 10.65.213.4 with SMTP id p4mr24998210qbq.1196663814960; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a5sm6716722qbd.2007.12.02.22.36.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:36:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4753A403.5040704@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:36:51 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071129) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> <20071202093625.D63241@laptop.unixathome.org> <4752C5BD.7020304@gmail.com> <47531971.5050402@evilphi.com> In-Reply-To: <47531971.5050402@evilphi.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:36:57 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: >>> Too much talk from people not willing to do the heavy lifting. >> >> There have been a number of serious attempts and in depth >> research into various ports system issues (I still need to wade >> through a rather long one sent to me privately)... an other >> question did you read the preamble to this thread at all? (where >> it says I have volunteered to do the "heavy lifting" for anything >> that comes out this discussion [two others privately asked to >> also be involved]) > > What he's saying is that there have been many before you who have > said and promised the same. Ideas get hashed out and we build > amazing bike-sheds, but there has seldom been real product. What > you have yet to do is distinguish yourself from history. Sounds like a fancy way of excusing yourself from not wanting to be a part of the process... If you really cared so much why not file (at least privately) a set of serious answers to the survey. As was said in the preamble it is not totally clear if the current system is broken enough (or at all) to warrant any serious changes. Until that is established it totally irresponsible in my mind to purpose any changes (i.e. it is a complex enough system that making adhoc changes carries more risk then reward) > > In short, patches please. Until then, don't expect enthusiastic > encouragement. > Depending on the outcome of the survey and followup's to it patches may prove to be insufficient (only a wholesale rewrite will suffice) - -- Aryeh M. Friedman FloSoft Systems Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHU6QD358R5LPuPvsRAqMJAKDkpy4gbaa95zwPULpRpYsE+xS+agCgo3FR bDY5GyyAijujcN+JPmJ+nK4= =3XAz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 06:39:14 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C3816A41A for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:39:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55E8813C457 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:39:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so6801950pyb for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:39:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=56V2RcD/rIje9/Dvc9z8oBjNyJzEYHkultq3JMhRa0o=; b=hRbBvtcgXZMAQt2ighlETUBUTUFaq/QdqPrNio7mKKPOmtYICVL9zsCkd9N/CbEQTd+FRPY4AW57CfYHhpvnlR7MRZ5dUBZzuWl1u9xZAO7wgmm7iQ8nuGkW5PgDTgUdAuetexeyDGw7Ei0qzEPquhtZbTy2MYwBeX7i2uw5dR0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SPn79GPmHb5mmX8XYGFIFrsBHRsWxhcnurJdkb83G8n8tMGeP0kaTCVbCzN2CzofVPgPBgHl4lpv4xlbyHGtJuohfbLSuFW/WZdyAiwm9jLJhnlL8aSZU1E0Zt3u6CLdCQS1nAjCckU1ukU4e2MCRo7RrPWavFsj5GbtLI1KFv4= Received: by 10.64.179.12 with SMTP id b12mr25122963qbf.1196663952396; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:39:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e16sm6765011qba.2007.12.02.22.39.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:39:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4753A48E.6000000@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:39:10 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071129) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Miguel Mendez References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:39:14 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Miguel Mendez wrote: > > On Dec 2, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > > Hi, > >> As has been hashed out in -ports@ over the last few days there is >> at least a need to examine weither or not the current ports >> system should remain as is or potentially be re-engineered in the >> future (estimates if and when needed vary from ASAP to 10-15 >> years). I have volunteered to undertake a feasibility/pilot >> project to examine what changes (if any) are needed in the system >> (for the purposes of this thread I will not venture any of my own >> suggestions). I have the following broad questions for people: > > I already replied to your questions in private but I wonder if you > took a look at pkgsrc and the enhancements the OpenBSD people have > done the pkg* commands and whether you think borrowing from them > would be useful. > I am purposelly not looking at any previous solutions right now... If and when it is determined that changes to the current system are needed I will look at them then for ideas of what has not worked. (like the Internet or other large complex systems we don't know "how" to make it we only know what doesn't work) - -- Aryeh M. Friedman FloSoft Systems Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHU6SO358R5LPuPvsRAj2OAKDSH+7nff+SkHAyypYc3OjbyyYuXwCfehta 6PyrvPsFAduJXSBIkS1V8Nc= =1KAL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 07:21:37 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A13E16A417 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:21:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from cauchy.math.missouri.edu (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C413413C458 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:21:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from laptop2.gateway.2wire.net (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by cauchy.math.missouri.edu (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lB36vKY6027828; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:57:21 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Message-ID: <4753A8D2.80008@math.missouri.edu> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:57:22 -0600 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071118 SeaMonkey/1.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:21:37 -0000 > 3. What is the single best aspect of the current system? Easy to write ports, or modify those created by others. > 4. What is the single worst aspect of the current system? Slowness of pkg_version and "make index." From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 09:59:46 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DBD516A420 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:59:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sat@cenkes.org) Received: from heka.cenkes.org (heka.cenkes.org [208.79.80.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7AE13C45D for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:59:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sat@cenkes.org) Received: from amilo.cenkes.org (ppp85-141-134-135.pppoe.mtu-net.ru [85.141.134.135]) (Authenticated sender: sat) by heka.cenkes.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65911242F82F; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:41:20 +0300 (MSK) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:41:14 +0300 From: Andrew Pantyukhin To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" Message-ID: <20071203094112.GA36135@amilo.cenkes.org> References: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4752827F.20902@gmail.com> X-OS: FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT amd64 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: infofarmer@FreeBSD.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:59:46 -0000 On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 05:01:35AM -0500, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > As has been hashed out in -ports@ over the last few days there is at > least a need to examine weither or not the current ports system should > remain as is or potentially be re-engineered in the future (estimates > if and when needed vary from ASAP to 10-15 years). I have > volunteered to undertake a feasibility/pilot project to examine what > changes (if any) are needed in the system (for the purposes of this > thread I will not venture any of my own suggestions). I have the > following broad questions for people: You would have saved the community a couple of expensive bikesheds (and more to come, as usual) if you had cared to do some research. All of the questions you ask have already been answered hundreds of times on mailing lists over the years. By starting the cycle anew, I'm afraid, you're only contributing to the problem. There are heaps of papers on package management out there. Look for answers there and you will find them. Most of us have our own engineering demons, who breed Napoleonic plans in our heads - to solve every problem in a perfect way. The sooner we learn to control them, the better. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 12:05:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DAA516A417 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:05:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@vizion2000.net) Received: from dns1.vizion2000.net (77-99-36-42.cable.ubr04.chap.blueyonder.co.uk [77.99.36.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB7C13C455 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:05:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@vizion2000.net) Received: by dns1.vizion2000.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id 827991CC46; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 04:03:56 -0800 (PST) Content-Disposition: inline From: David Southwell Organization: Voice and Vision To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 04:03:56 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200712030403.56273.david@vizion2000.net> Subject: Re: [RFC/P] Port System Re-Engineering X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:05:26 -0000 On Monday 03 December 2007 01:41:14 Andrew Pantyukhin wrote: > On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 05:01:35AM -0500, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > > As has been hashed out in -ports@ over the last few days there is at > > least a need to examine weither or not the current ports system should > > remain as is or potentially be re-engineered in the future (estimates > > if and when needed vary from ASAP to 10-15 years). I have > > volunteered to undertake a feasibility/pilot project to examine what > > changes (if any) are needed in the system (for the purposes of this > > thread I will not venture any of my own suggestions). I have the > > following broad questions for people: > > You would have saved the community a couple of expensive > bikesheds (and more to come, as usual) if you had cared to do > some research. All of the questions you ask have already been > answered hundreds of times on mailing lists over the years. By > starting the cycle anew, I'm afraid, you're only contributing to > the problem. > > There are heaps of papers on package management out there. Look > for answers there and you will find them. > > Most of us have our own engineering demons, who breed Napoleonic > plans in our heads - to solve every problem in a perfect way. The > sooner we learn to control them, the better. > _______________________________________________ Enough!! There are few demons in the heads of the freebsd community that require controlling. Apart from the owning ones own prejudices here are my own candidates: IMHO the demons in the head that encourage and justify the abuse of other members of the communiity are the worst demons of all. My own choice for the second group of demons in the head who require elimination are those that encourage and justify members of the community who want all community energy spend solely on their own ideas or upon problems that personally affect them. The third groupof demons I would select for immeditae eradication are those that encourage and justify attacks on those who have the courage and energy to either identify or attempt to address problems that are either symptomatic or touch upon the status quo. It is the operations of these three demons that the freebsd community has the greatest need to fear and control. There are three angels I would like to see us harness in greater number: The first, depending upon which side of the atlantic we live, is the one that encourages humor or humour in our dealings. The second are those angels that encourage us to encourage others and thereby build a flexible community mutually respectful of alternative points of view, endeavours and values. The third group of angels, and the one that I and many other members of the freebsd community of trouble heeding, are the group of angels that speak to us about pusuing goals with an appropriate combination of tenaciousness and humility. David ------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 17:13:18 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 543FF16A420 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:13:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from c-0500.emailmediator.com (c-0500.emailmediator.com [64.85.162.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367DB13C459 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:13:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-71-170-114-32.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.170.114.32] helo=reedmedia.net) by c-0500.emailmediator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IzEVs-000159-Kg for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:51:20 -0500 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 561-1196700693; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:51:34 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:51:33 -0600 (CST) From: reed@reedmedia.net To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: export /cdrom without mounting? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:13:18 -0000 The handbook at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-nfs.html shows exporting /cdrom. The exports(5) man page seems to indicate a similar exports(5) entry will fail since /cdom is not mounted. And if the -alldirs option is not used it would just export the empty /cdrom directory (empty because not mounted). So should the handbook say that /cdrom should be mounted first? (Usually /cdrom mounted point is listed in /etc/fstab with "noauto".) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 20:21:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16A316A418 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:21:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from conn-smtp.mc.mpls.visi.com (conn.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA80F13C448 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:21:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from mail.tcbug.org (mail.tcbug.org [208.42.70.163]) by conn-smtp.mc.mpls.visi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9B5793D; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:21:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from build64.tcbug.org (unknown [208.42.70.167]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.tcbug.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C3DE10AA85B; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:21:11 -0600 (CST) From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:21:03 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1855602.QXqrYfTFT1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200712031421.10635.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: Subject: Re: export /cdrom without mounting? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:21:12 -0000 --nextPart1855602.QXqrYfTFT1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 03 December 2007 10:51:33 am reed@reedmedia.net wrote: > The handbook at > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-nfs.html > shows exporting /cdrom. > > The exports(5) man page seems to indicate a similar exports(5) entry will > fail since /cdom is not mounted. And if the -alldirs option is not used it > would just export the empty /cdrom directory (empty because not mounted). > > So should the handbook say that /cdrom should be mounted first? > > (Usually /cdrom mounted point is listed in /etc/fstab with "noauto".) Needing the filesystem mounted that you are trying to share seems sort of=20 intuitive to me. The handbook doesn't say that /home has to be mounted=20 either.... =2D-=20 Thanks, Josh Paetzel PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5A8C 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB --nextPart1855602.QXqrYfTFT1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBHVGU2JvkB8SevrssRAvrpAKCNIvGFh78QS4Tqpa3b0xLljB71sQCgkcv0 03kUqW9MOqogeivX7MYwSTQ= =kI9D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1855602.QXqrYfTFT1-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 21:50:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE6616A417 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 21:50:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from c-0500.emailmediator.com (c-0500.emailmediator.com [64.85.162.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC4DB13C442 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 21:50:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-71-170-114-32.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([71.170.114.32] helo=reedmedia.net) by c-0500.emailmediator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IzJBG-0005pf-6F; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:50:22 -0500 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 5109-1196718635; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:50:36 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:50:35 -0600 (CST) From: reed@reedmedia.net To: Josh Paetzel In-Reply-To: <200712031421.10635.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: References: <200712031421.10635.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: export /cdrom without mounting? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:50:24 -0000 On Mon, 3 Dec 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Monday 03 December 2007 10:51:33 am reed@reedmedia.net wrote: > > The handbook at > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-nfs.html > > shows exporting /cdrom. > > > > The exports(5) man page seems to indicate a similar exports(5) entry will > > fail since /cdom is not mounted. And if the -alldirs option is not used it > > would just export the empty /cdrom directory (empty because not mounted). > > > > So should the handbook say that /cdrom should be mounted first? > > > > (Usually /cdrom mounted point is listed in /etc/fstab with "noauto".) > > Needing the filesystem mounted that you are trying to share seems sort of > intuitive to me. The handbook doesn't say that /home has to be mounted > either.... While I agree for you and me it is intuitive, but the handbook reaches a larger audience. As for /home not a good example. As /home is often a symlink by default to /usr/home and is nearly always mounted while /cdrom is not (noauto). From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 3 22:43:19 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C4816A469 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 22:43:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C23F13C467 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 22:43:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB3ML3uU044694; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:21:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id lJGAV3bY16L0; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:20:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (dsl.daleco.biz [209.125.108.70]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB3MKqPZ044689; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:20:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <4754813F.3090206@daleco.biz> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:20:47 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070418 SeaMonkey/1.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yuri References: <1196712532.4754625481123@webmail.rawbw.com> <200712031432.23825.josh@tcbug.org> <1196715583.47546e3f1002b@webmail.rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: <1196715583.47546e3f1002b@webmail.rawbw.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Josh Paetzel , FreeBSD Chat , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any experience using cellphone as a modem on FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:43:19 -0000 Yuri wrote: > It's unfortunate that even though cell phone already has IP connectivity that > built-in browser works through it's still necessary to go through dialup/PPP to > get this to laptop. > > I guess I will give it a try too. Hmm, some cellphones basically run Linux "underneath", don't they? Too bad it's not *BSD; we could just ssh into that puppy and turn on NATD ... :-D Kevin Kinsey (if thread continues [and we should hope not, I think, at least in this direction] plx remove questions@ from CC list. I only left it in for "origin"'s sake.) -- The final screw holding up a rackmount server is always possessed by demons. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 4 23:21:28 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB6316A4DD for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:21:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DD3513C457 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:21:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB4NKtwD066224; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:20:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id nKvmaDuG5ldm; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:20:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (dsl.daleco.biz [209.125.108.70]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lB4NKa6E066216; Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:20:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <4755E0BF.3030208@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:20:31 -0600 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.2) Gecko/20070418 SeaMonkey/1.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Banning References: <20071204191130.GA86443@skytracker.ca> In-Reply-To: <20071204191130.GA86443@skytracker.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:00:29 +0000 Cc: Chess Griffin , FreeBSD Chat , "Aryeh M. Friedman" , Bill Moran , Jerry McAllister , Derek Ragona , Kurt Buff , Oliver Mueller , schiz0phrenic21@gmail.com Subject: Re: looking for online text editor X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:21:29 -0000 David Banning wrote: > Often I have to maintain my fbsd box from outside locations. I have > tried using webmin but sometimes outside computers stop me from > running the java filemanager - same goes for attempting to run > mindterm-ssh. Is there some plain text editor program > out there that will allow me to simply login and edit my files in > plain text - (not a gui html editor) ? Hey, I'm a plain text editor, but maybe not a "program". Send your IP addy, your credentials, and a few Uncle Benjamins this way; I'd be happy to do it for ya. Barring that, I'd get "putty on a stick", as suggested, and use your ed(1)itor of choice. Kevin Kinsey -- Smear the road with a runner!! * PS > dunno why I'm such a troll of late. Maybe 'cause I finally got all my domains covered by Spamassassin, and needed something to do with the extra e-mail time. Hopefully I'll calm down by Christmas.... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 6 18:13:18 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4826716A41A for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:13:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from twickline@gmail.com) Received: from qb-out-0506.google.com (qb-out-0506.google.com [72.14.204.228]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C7E13C4DD for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:13:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from twickline@gmail.com) Received: by qb-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id a10so4342557qbd for ; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:13:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=hHfQHRl+arfN+KZfVBXmppUi6za6WkYG9w93WfnBI5o=; b=EG7pBFL7g08Xxnxpwrz2erx/1JPjWspA5kC6y1IGxY8cfFc3LXjbCSjifHBAbCT43aZ6iHrYc2AVog6HTwZk5CB784VttLEaE8PMeM8fKsrwFtg1FSSkL7ylxG2RRHtgnn/6+eLZlkfrsU3MyQabmKF6nRJXA6WsUmXIIEm1ezQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=w1jI9demtbttudVf+xOAyepAw+b1P4xQDnR3FGqoPhDbz+tWw+kTDab+RA6y7ldcEzvAZlUb7iutVR/oan0sYky12Is5Fp1FaxFUpKaZI4GTykJByEH34hRhzdKYGMy02Z0Q99BeH4AWv/LvdAiVXoqdDGdKildODky5C/uz7Tc= Received: by 10.142.148.7 with SMTP id v7mr1784689wfd.1196963948560; Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.191.6 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Dec 2007 09:59:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:59:08 -0500 From: "Tom Wickline" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:13:18 -0000 Hello Everyone, I have a small blog about running Wine on Unix operating systems and over the last couple days I've been experimenting with Wine on FreeBSD 7 beta 2 (I see beta 4 is out, many thanks!) If anyone here is interested I ran Office 97 and 2000 out of the box on FreeBSD 7beta no registry files or special hacks needed. Ive also run a couple small applications (Qicktime 7.1.6) (IE 5 5.5 6) and then some benchmarks 3DMark 2000v1.1, 3DMark2001SE, GL Excess and PC Mark04. In the future ill see if I can get 3DMark 2003 and 3DMark 2005 to run and produce results as well. I don't know if any of you guys or gals are Gamers.... But just in case I also installed Halo in Wine and it runs about the same on FreeBSD as it does on Linux. With D3D, DDraw and OpenGL working most every game that is running in Wine should run on FreeBSD.. I don't know this as fact as I've only tried one Game and four Benchmarks, but it does look promising. More info can be found here: Wine-Review front Page: http://wine-review.blogspot.com/ Office 97/2000: http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/microsoft-office-2000-on-freebsd-7-with.html http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/office-97-on-freebsd-with-wine.html IE, QT etc.. http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/quicktime-716-on-freebsd-7-with-wine.html http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/ies-4-freebsd-internet-explorer-50-55.html Benchmark results & Halo: http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/benchmarking-wine-on-freebsd-7.html http:/http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/halo-combat-evolved-on-freebsd-with.html Oh yea, were seeking contributors... if your interested in Wine on FreeBSD and believe you can help us out see : http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/wine-review-is-currently-seeking.html Thanks for your time......... Cheers, Tom Wickline