From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 04:44:57 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E7216A468 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:44:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from twickline@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A3A13C468 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:44:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from twickline@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so852327pyb for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:44:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=tArXcjpi/oWdmpyoa53rl16eO6d+U5Ai7tNuwsAFQxk=; b=eH1OltO7ME+x4oepAgZbuQ7NAgeuR3Pkdk5/oxq1hApfALNmw42AGeQ+6NNq+ilQ/jOAaQkaoYcM8/RK9SFvkImostPCcBSRvzRaYFAaKuLyNvabTQqYaqlHdtNPfxqUzKZK4jrFLhGy4hBsLU8cl4LS9ijw765HyDrnN+V+wg4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ulIMgxV2v/npxCWE3dc9PIkS/eLvSwjTC7fEUl0tcJlKQD8C7JnToCyK/2A/2XDKKggpQXJxBCiBD4jioMx+ugHeZbSUXwUMmInjM3FsGZxFggYcPrCcJnuRq9bKBBVTOwIfvCjXuJhe5IBAUfc5Suw03ka386wNyYv3tE497gM= Received: by 10.142.241.10 with SMTP id o10mr3426870wfh.1197348295755; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.98.3 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:44:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <53e3a9930712102044v768e794fq118e2fe3d6d2fa0d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:44:55 -0500 From: "Tom Wickline" To: "Brett Glass" In-Reply-To: <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:44:58 -0000 On Dec 10, 2007 11:41 PM, Brett Glass wrote: > It's worth noting that the WINE project, not long ago, abandoned > the BSD license for the GPL despite urging from many sources to keep > the code open and free for use by developers. We've stopped using it > as a result. > > --Brett Glass > Wins is under a free licence, its LGPL and I'm almost 100% sure you have no idea why the licence was changed! Tom From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 05:00:32 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416B116A41B; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:00:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248D913C458; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:00:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from anne-o1dpaayth1.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05322; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:41:56 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:41:24 -0700 To: "Tom Wickline" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.co m> References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:00:32 -0000 It's worth noting that the WINE project, not long ago, abandoned the BSD license for the GPL despite urging from many sources to keep the code open and free for use by developers. We've stopped using it as a result. --Brett Glass At 10:59 AM 12/6/2007, Tom Wickline wrote: >Oh yea, were seeking contributors... if your interested in Wine on >FreeBSD and believe you can >help us out see : >http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/wine-review-is-currently-seeking.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 10:10:35 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9DA16A417 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:10:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com (mu-out-0910.google.com [209.85.134.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB6913C469 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:10:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i10so3490731mue for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:10:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=rzeAcE01rK0iwivCKKKInbmuLvOuQaeZUpbJGMVWztw=; b=vOxtOiVTde/7CxosZqI3jdOtVTpLABqCIytBfLolg6WXTJf+UXuuT6OWattcZ9m1Kyq/TmbWkByRGX3mtv6di+O+bA3ax3zlxfqkygXFIVka2PnskeNL+OZ4GC4v+XBy6Xsg18TpJuKWWaQF9aLVtbIMZ/EEAieS3ZDCK+yzHfk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; b=At89YjEU6lgCK9nAraJHRyroO6R0QWd7g58DpSnnA5PNGYl0EXj7iRuRvzyIMwW9S0zCOtckVFdS8wVQeke9PVl04fU9xbI9MOb/Wv+8ARO5MaAQRURVH9mLjmfvi4TEuFW+Cqm3LJ+qpf8d5aIwEb3Lj9IH1iEudYwjmWtF7pM= Received: by 10.82.186.5 with SMTP id j5mr1093633buf.1197366376376; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 01:46:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?127.0.0.1? ( [217.206.187.79]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j8sm1765199gvb.2007.12.11.01.46.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 01:46:15 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Evans To: Tom Wickline In-Reply-To: <53e3a9930712102044v768e794fq118e2fe3d6d2fa0d@mail.gmail.com> References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <53e3a9930712102044v768e794fq118e2fe3d6d2fa0d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-elrZs9YLg0WhjE4onyxl" Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:46:13 +0000 Message-Id: <1197366373.1472.0.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.2 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Cc: freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Brett Glass , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:10:35 -0000 --=-elrZs9YLg0WhjE4onyxl Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 23:44 -0500, Tom Wickline wrote: > On Dec 10, 2007 11:41 PM, Brett Glass wrote: > > It's worth noting that the WINE project, not long ago, abandoned > > the BSD license for the GPL despite urging from many sources to keep > > the code open and free for use by developers. We've stopped using it > > as a result. > > > > --Brett Glass > > >=20 > Wins is under a free licence, its LGPL and I'm almost 100% sure you > have no idea why > the licence was changed! >=20 > Tom Depends upon your definition of free. --=-elrZs9YLg0WhjE4onyxl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBHXlxglcRvFfyds/cRAkIuAKCu/1U/DxsXZ2exMsE03AFrotC1NgCgppLk MgVuBun6geoGUs6VA520tLQ= =oIo8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-elrZs9YLg0WhjE4onyxl-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 15:29:54 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE4A16A417 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:29:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unga888@yahoo.com) Received: from web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com (web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.97.109]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EA18F13C46B for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:29:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unga888@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48240 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Dec 2007 15:03:12 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=qjMdgHHV4K2qMZOJfrwadRJkC4gZT8DlpU10ScuxyWn8fQxmVKXQ0bkaiRxplMwAWtVA+LMy8s8w77M+ho31UDq3IcsJhdLFt6IX6zIXALF++SB0yVjR8L99qIGxKA2pbQrZgPjsR46PdqYYM20zcUAoi3BqQFpvgQsGaf10YBI=; X-YMail-OSG: 1zQA.aAVM1lR0uvRm7wCa2A1eNt1D4WrQuW_ZRh113x6Ue1_SPJ0NIXvg0scLvJay8fZTOT7rTxr2LMxQ4kmhjlwlVfSxepXLDAL Received: from [165.21.154.10] by web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:03:12 PST Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:03:12 -0800 (PST) From: Unga To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1197366373.1472.0.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <236502.48036.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:29:54 -0000 --- Tom Evans wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 23:44 -0500, Tom Wickline > wrote: > > On Dec 10, 2007 11:41 PM, Brett Glass > wrote: > > > It's worth noting that the WINE project, not > long ago, abandoned > > > the BSD license for the GPL despite urging from > many sources to keep > > > the code open and free for use by developers. > We've stopped using it > > > as a result. > > > > > > --Brett Glass > > > > > > > Wins is under a free licence, its LGPL and I'm > almost 100% sure you > > have no idea why > > the licence was changed! > > > > Tom > > Depends upon your definition of free. > Definition: GPL: Restrictions sugar coated as "Free as Freedom" BSD: Free as Freedom Tom Wickline, care to explain why the license was changed? :) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 15:39:27 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E0B16A418; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from braulio@solsoft.co.cr) Received: from wbm9.pair.net (wbm9.pair.net [66.39.3.87]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA5413C442; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from braulio@solsoft.co.cr) Received: by wbm9.pair.net (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 8A8C73BD7B; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:08:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from 163.178.104.130 ([163.178.104.130]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user braulio@solsoft.co.cr) by webmail9.pair.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:08:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> In-Reply-To: <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:08:53 -0600 (CST) From: Braulio =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Solano_Rojas?= To: "Brett Glass" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, Tom Wickline , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:39:28 -0000 On Mon, 10 de Diciembre de 2007, 10:41 pm, Brett Glass wrote: > It's worth noting that the WINE project, not long ago, abandoned > the BSD license for the GPL despite urging from many sources to keep > the code open and free for use by developers. We've stopped using it > as a result. You can find the story of what happened in the Wikipedia. There is still this: http://www.cedega.com/rewind/, if you like better the X11 license. You still have *freedom* of choice. Regardless of the current license of Wine they have merit for what they have done. Any open source developer regardless of his "Creed" has merit in fact. ;-) > At 10:59 AM 12/6/2007, Tom Wickline wrote: > >>Oh yea, were seeking contributors... if your interested in Wine on >>FreeBSD and believe you can >>help us out see : >>http://wine-review.blogspot.com/2007/12/wine-review-is-currently-seeking.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 11 20:32:35 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C503716A47D for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:32:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79DB213C459 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:32:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from anne-o1dpaayth1.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21000 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:51:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200712111951.MAA21000@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:51:45 -0700 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:32:35 -0000 At 10:01 AM 12/11/2007, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_%28software%29 > "... originally released Wine under the same MIT License as the X > Window System, but owing to concern about proprietary versions > of Wine not contributing their changes back to the core project, > work as of March 2002 has used the LGPL" What apparently happened is that one or two of the developers of Wine got their knickers in a twist about the idea that -- heaven forbid! -- someone might possibly make some money for the enhancements they made to Wine. (Never mind that the marketing and development costs for their commercial versions of Wine were eating all of their profits, and it was unclear whether they actually WOULD make any money.) Also, it is rumored (though I have not seen proof of it) that John Gilmore, an underwriter of the Wine project, threatened to withdraw support from some of these developers unless the license was switched to the GPL, thus forcing their hands. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 05:36:06 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2E716A418 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:36:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D9B13C448 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:36:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so279197pyb.3 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:36:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PtE84uAPqTkk26trN4rVkrTLn6mOd0To9PX3DaNkol8=; b=a7/STpu1w8KHMHbtaYj7pZr9K2nmnFGDShp/YPtevZ5sdlu55f0aaXo4ByGBdYAegCSCbsTqVMlPQu4udgravu18WXLyyrPfZ32hB9kUAHjln7LbZY2eiN5h2nzRjxy9v9am0p+dPdEpmwKhpweqGrFvCuktJ42H1x1J0eD/mjY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=R8pmbhi3i0bCyAEYx7Jxx//A2lginbSNPmX3lsOKt4RPcKwHof3KhdgRtMr2RdB++mtJhxAyIjyFnL4T9IP5aL6XM4x07sj+5xXVjefMD6acEIe1ifEPiS41hyb9jPfdjJ/jtQa4Z8NA3YBvBhHoUI12i+4STdU6uXZEYr5Uzbg= Received: by 10.65.212.3 with SMTP id o3mr611285qbq.57.1197437762008; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e16sm2188841qbe.2007.12.11.21.35.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:36:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475F7332.2020501@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:35:46 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: results of ports re-engineering survey X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:36:06 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 *PLEASE ONLY REPLY TO ME OR -PORTS@* A few disclaimers: Neither I or anyone else is asking for FreeBSD to incorparate any modifications to the current base system and/or ports collection. If and when any code is developed from this process it will be committed using normal commit and review processes. The following summary of results is based on my eyeballing of answers and should not be interpreted as being any sort of mathematically and/or scientifically valid in any manner. Number of responses: roughly 30 Summary of results: 1. Most respondents stated that both the underlaying OS and the ports collection are equally important. When a preference was shown it was for the underlaying OS in most cases. 2. On average people tend to interact with the port system once or twice a week 3. The single best aspect of the ports system according to respondents is dependency tracking when installing new ports 4. The single worst aspect of the ports system according to respondents is dependency tracking when updating or deleting existing ports 5. Most respondents would not change there answers tothe survey if they where new to FreeBSD 6. Almost all respondents would use a new system if it fixed their personal worst aspect of the current system 7. About 50% of respondents would use a new system if it broke the best aspect of the ports system but fixed the worst aspect 8. Length of FreeBSD usage: rough avr. of 8 years with roughly 3 year std. dev. 9. Prefered install method: ports 10. Usage roughly evenly spread among desktop, development and servers 11. Subsystem ratings (rough avr's): UI: 6 Constancy: 9 Dependancy tracking: 7 Record keeping: 9 Granularity: 9 12. Most users are either sysadmins and/or developers Orginial Survey: As has been hashed out in -ports@ over the last few days there is at least a need to examine weither or not the current ports system should remain as is or potentially be re-engineered in the future (estimates if and when needed vary from ASAP to 10-15 years). I have volunteered to undertake a feasibility/pilot project to examine what changes (if any) are needed in the system (for the purposes of this thread I will not venture any of my own suggestions). I have the following broad questions for people: 1. What is more important to your personal use of FreeBSD (the ports system, the underlaying OS, some other aspect)? 2. How frequently do you interact with the ports systems and what is the most common interaction you have with it? 3. What is the single best aspect of the current system? 4. What is the single worst aspect of the current system? 5. If you where a new FreeBSD user how would your answers above change? If you where brand new to UNIX how whould they change? 6. Assuming that there was no additional work on your behalf would you use a new system if it corrected your answer to number 4? 7. Same as question 6 but for your answer on question 3? 8. How long have you used FreeBSD and/or UNIX in general? 9. That is your primary use(s) for your FreeBSD machine(s) (name upto 3)? 10. Assuming there is no functional difference what is your preferred installation method for 3rd party software? 11. On a scale from 1 to 10 (10 being the best) please rate the importance of the following aspects of the ports system? a. User Interface b. Consistency of behaviors and interactions c. Accuracy in dependant port installations d. Internal record keeping e. Granularity's of the port management system 12. Please rate your personal technical skill level? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHX3MyzIOMjAek4JIRAqqjAJ9YlNJW9Uqa21yK+sm1IST+KmO7QACfeum+ 9rhuEkdKX6BKkFZr6WGmbDU= =jhg0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 05:37:23 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96E816A421 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:37:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C94213C465 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:37:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so280074pyb.3 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:37:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PtE84uAPqTkk26trN4rVkrTLn6mOd0To9PX3DaNkol8=; b=g9HgrLRc5PQIlZR/DNfmM460/gFBOcQ+Fyj6UmCTEyvapk+10UMeyKrXrtbycxSh2GaxGpp9jKvL/P4TuQKtOiWISNdjwxpHIMPrw2RyLP9QUWFpP05rvLf4H+jJOKZQFH6G1lMImaG9U+52vnmo1/kQ8gmV/WNLcCbVtjHePvA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=aog43f6vR2u6pvpoA/nrRqDKSDnU5p9mCEO7g0FRdh014MbCkboXxYJMYhK8LW55F7tyns4X+KwihxQTYYnN44Vv+qCxl/hdQzzL+PzVIi0In/KOkSxrgLssQT8PYu+4nSRPkAFWQyUiRmpqoHR3z+nZ5qfu8+C0rlBNpghE1UE= Received: by 10.64.193.2 with SMTP id q2mr628722qbf.51.1197437842019; Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:37:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e15sm6096863qba.2007.12.11.21.37.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:37:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <475F7390.9090509@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:37:20 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: results of ports re-engineering survey X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:37:23 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 *PLEASE ONLY REPLY TO ME OR -PORTS@* A few disclaimers: Neither I or anyone else is asking for FreeBSD to incorparate any modifications to the current base system and/or ports collection. If and when any code is developed from this process it will be committed using normal commit and review processes. The following summary of results is based on my eyeballing of answers and should not be interpreted as being any sort of mathematically and/or scientifically valid in any manner. Number of responses: roughly 30 Summary of results: 1. Most respondents stated that both the underlaying OS and the ports collection are equally important. When a preference was shown it was for the underlaying OS in most cases. 2. On average people tend to interact with the port system once or twice a week 3. The single best aspect of the ports system according to respondents is dependency tracking when installing new ports 4. The single worst aspect of the ports system according to respondents is dependency tracking when updating or deleting existing ports 5. Most respondents would not change there answers tothe survey if they where new to FreeBSD 6. Almost all respondents would use a new system if it fixed their personal worst aspect of the current system 7. About 50% of respondents would use a new system if it broke the best aspect of the ports system but fixed the worst aspect 8. Length of FreeBSD usage: rough avr. of 8 years with roughly 3 year std. dev. 9. Prefered install method: ports 10. Usage roughly evenly spread among desktop, development and servers 11. Subsystem ratings (rough avr's): UI: 6 Constancy: 9 Dependancy tracking: 7 Record keeping: 9 Granularity: 9 12. Most users are either sysadmins and/or developers Orginial Survey: As has been hashed out in -ports@ over the last few days there is at least a need to examine weither or not the current ports system should remain as is or potentially be re-engineered in the future (estimates if and when needed vary from ASAP to 10-15 years). I have volunteered to undertake a feasibility/pilot project to examine what changes (if any) are needed in the system (for the purposes of this thread I will not venture any of my own suggestions). I have the following broad questions for people: 1. What is more important to your personal use of FreeBSD (the ports system, the underlaying OS, some other aspect)? 2. How frequently do you interact with the ports systems and what is the most common interaction you have with it? 3. What is the single best aspect of the current system? 4. What is the single worst aspect of the current system? 5. If you where a new FreeBSD user how would your answers above change? If you where brand new to UNIX how whould they change? 6. Assuming that there was no additional work on your behalf would you use a new system if it corrected your answer to number 4? 7. Same as question 6 but for your answer on question 3? 8. How long have you used FreeBSD and/or UNIX in general? 9. That is your primary use(s) for your FreeBSD machine(s) (name upto 3)? 10. Assuming there is no functional difference what is your preferred installation method for 3rd party software? 11. On a scale from 1 to 10 (10 being the best) please rate the importance of the following aspects of the ports system? a. User Interface b. Consistency of behaviors and interactions c. Accuracy in dependant port installations d. Internal record keeping e. Granularity's of the port management system 12. Please rate your personal technical skill level? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHX3MyzIOMjAek4JIRAqqjAJ9YlNJW9Uqa21yK+sm1IST+KmO7QACfeum+ 9rhuEkdKX6BKkFZr6WGmbDU= =jhg0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 09:39:49 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7015D16A418 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:39:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from pqueuea.post.tele.dk (pqueuea.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285B613C478 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:39:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by pqueuea.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02D09DC219 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from m00h.dienub.org (dienub.org [87.48.115.212]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4225A50060 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by m00h.dienub.org (Postfix, from userid 80) id B30F311459; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:00 +0100 (CET) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:12:00 +0100 From: alive Organization: Dienub Message-ID: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> X-Sender: alive@dienub.org User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:39:49 -0000 So, at work I have a nice wireless Logitech keyboard with all the extra multimedia hotkeys and shortcuts one could ever come to think of, and a great laser mouse that even works when I use it on my pants. The problem is, though, that being a wireless keyboard, it sometimes gets interference from either bluetooth devices or some other wireless HID peripherals, and this leads to a lot of stress and keyboard abuse on my part. I was wondering if anybody knew of a good wired keyboard (+ maybe mouse) that my hands won't get tired of using about 8-12 hours a day. Thanks :) Sincerely, Rada From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 09:58:50 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A9916A41A for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:58:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1871E13C4D3 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:58:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B632720BB; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:58:41 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.1/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A904A20B9; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:58:41 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8CC0C8448A; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:58:41 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: alive References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:58:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> (alive@dienub.org's message of "Wed\, 12 Dec 2007 10\:12\:00 +0100") Message-ID: <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:58:50 -0000 alive writes: > So, at work I have a nice wireless Logitech keyboard with all the extra > multimedia hotkeys and shortcuts one could ever come to think of, and a > great laser mouse that even works when I use it on my pants. > > The problem is, though, that being a wireless keyboard, it sometimes gets > interference from either bluetooth devices or some other wireless HID > peripherals, and this leads to a lot of stress and keyboard abuse on my > part. > > I was wondering if anybody knew of a good wired keyboard (+ maybe mouse) > that my hands won't get tired of using about 8-12 hours a day. > Thanks :) If you're happy with your current set (apart from the RF issues), Logitech almost certainly have a wired version. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 16:36:29 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B842616A41A for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:36:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mx1.highperformance.net (dsl081-163-122.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.163.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 836EE13C43E for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:36:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from w16.stradamotorsports.com (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) by mx1.highperformance.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBCFxqQM059604 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:59:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Message-ID: <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:59:58 -0800 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070922) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=2.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_05 autolearn=failed version=3.1.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on s4.stradamotorsports.com Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:36:29 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > alive writes: >> I was wondering if anybody knew of a good wired keyboard (+ maybe mouse) >> that my hands won't get tired of using about 8-12 hours a day. >> Thanks :) > > If you're happy with your current set (apart from the RF issues), > Logitech almost certainly have a wired version. I really like my Logitech Ultra X. It's an OEM keyboard and not available in stores. I got mine at Newegg for about $20. For me the tactile scissor switch i.e laptop style keys are preferred. It is one of few modern keyboards that don't try to _improve_the layout. It's a straight PC104 layout. Now if I could just get X Windows to use the media keys. I mean to hook up one of those new Apple keyboards real soon now. They are so so sweet! http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ They are available in wired and wireless. And if you really like tactile response, the one true keyboard is the IBM Model M. It also doubles as a weapon for beating burglars who invade your home. Later, Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 19:39:48 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284B016A420 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:39:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ulf@alameda.net) Received: from mail.alameda.net (mail.alameda.net [194.55.105.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA8D13C458 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:39:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ulf@alameda.net) Received: by mail.alameda.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 29E2233D3C; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:19:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:19:29 -0800 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: "Jason C. Wells" Message-ID: <20071212191928.GQ1153@evil.alameda.net> References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.3-STABLE X-ANI-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ANI-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ANI-MailScanner-From: ulf@alameda.net Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:39:48 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 07:59:58AM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav wrote: > > >alive writes: > > >>I was wondering if anybody knew of a good wired keyboard (+ maybe mouse) > >>that my hands won't get tired of using about 8-12 hours a day. > >>Thanks :) > > > >If you're happy with your current set (apart from the RF issues), > >Logitech almost certainly have a wired version. > > I really like my Logitech Ultra X. It's an OEM keyboard and not > available in stores. I got mine at Newegg for about $20. For me the > tactile scissor switch i.e laptop style keys are preferred. It is one > of few modern keyboards that don't try to _improve_the layout. It's a > straight PC104 layout. Now if I could just get X Windows to use the > media keys. > > I mean to hook up one of those new Apple keyboards real soon now. They > are so so sweet! http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ They are available in > wired and wireless. > > And if you really like tactile response, the one true keyboard is the > IBM Model M. It also doubles as a weapon for beating burglars who invade > your home. > > Later, > Jason > I still like the keyboards from NMB which they oemed to SUN, SGI and Compaq. Unfortunatly NMB doesn't make them anymore, only membrane ones now. But you might still find places which sell them. Otherwise I like Cherry keyboards as they are still using real switches on several of their models. Another good keyboard, old style IBM with loud click, is from http://www.pckeyboard.com/ but it looks like their website is having a problem right now. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://www.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 21:59:53 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6548716A41A for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:59:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from estover@nativenerds.com) Received: from www.nativenerds.com (host-70-0-111-24-static.midco.net [24.111.0.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 451D413C43E for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:59:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from estover@nativenerds.com) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=24.111.0.70) by www.nativenerds.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J2YkQ-000CqM-4x; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:04:06 -0700 Received: from 198.45.3.253 (SquirrelMail authenticated user estover@nativenerds.com) by 24.111.0.70 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:04:06 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <16182.198.45.3.253.1197493446.squirrel@24.111.0.70> In-Reply-To: <20071212191928.GQ1153@evil.alameda.net> References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> <20071212191928.GQ1153@evil.alameda.net> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:04:06 -0700 (MST) From: "Ed Stover" To: ulf@Alameda.net User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.9a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Antivirus-Scanner: Scanned with ClamAV. Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: estover@nativenerds.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:59:53 -0000 On Wed, December 12, 2007 12:19 pm, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 07:59:58AM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >> Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav wrote: >> >> >alive writes: >> >> >>I was wondering if anybody knew of a good wired keyboard (+ maybe >> mouse) >> >>that my hands won't get tired of using about 8-12 hours a day. >> >>Thanks :) >> > >> >If you're happy with your current set (apart from the RF issues), >> >Logitech almost certainly have a wired version. >> >> I really like my Logitech Ultra X. It's an OEM keyboard and not >> available in stores. I got mine at Newegg for about $20. For me the >> tactile scissor switch i.e laptop style keys are preferred. It is one >> of few modern keyboards that don't try to _improve_the layout. It's a >> straight PC104 layout. Now if I could just get X Windows to use the >> media keys. >> >> I mean to hook up one of those new Apple keyboards real soon now. They >> are so so sweet! http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ They are available in >> wired and wireless. >> >> And if you really like tactile response, the one true keyboard is the >> IBM Model M. It also doubles as a weapon for beating burglars who invade >> your home. >> >> Later, >> Jason >> > > I still like the keyboards from NMB which they oemed to SUN, SGI and > Compaq. > Unfortunatly NMB doesn't make them anymore, only membrane ones now. But > you > might still find places which sell them. Otherwise I like Cherry keyboards > as they are still using real switches on several of their models. Another > good keyboard, old style IBM with loud click, is from > http://www.pckeyboard.com/ > but it looks like their website is having a problem right now. > > -- > Regards, Ulf. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 > You can find my resume at: http://www.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html Im a fan of the Das Keyboard II, http://www.daskeyboard.com/ it feels pretty comfortable and has a nice key weight. A little spendy though... but hey its your wrists. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 23:31:16 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF4D16A421 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:31:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886E413C459 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:31:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from m00h.dienub.org (dienub.org [87.48.115.212]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D758A0002; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:31:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (Radab0x.dienub.org [192.168.0.2]) by m00h.dienub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55BC011431; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:31:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <47606F41.5060608@dienub.org> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:31:13 +0100 From: "Daniel A. Akulenok" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: estover@nativenerds.com References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> <20071212191928.GQ1153@evil.alameda.net> <16182.198.45.3.253.1197493446.squirrel@24.111.0.70> In-Reply-To: <16182.198.45.3.253.1197493446.squirrel@24.111.0.70> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , ulf@Alameda.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:31:17 -0000 Ed Stover wrote: > On Wed, December 12, 2007 12:19 pm, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 07:59:58AM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >> >>> Dag-Erling Sm??rgrav wrote: >>> >>> >>>> alive writes: >>>> >>>>> I was wondering if anybody knew of a good wired keyboard (+ maybe >>>>> >>> mouse) >>> >>>>> that my hands won't get tired of using about 8-12 hours a day. >>>>> Thanks :) >>>>> >>>> If you're happy with your current set (apart from the RF issues), >>>> Logitech almost certainly have a wired version. >>>> >>> I really like my Logitech Ultra X. It's an OEM keyboard and not >>> available in stores. I got mine at Newegg for about $20. For me the >>> tactile scissor switch i.e laptop style keys are preferred. It is one >>> of few modern keyboards that don't try to _improve_the layout. It's a >>> straight PC104 layout. Now if I could just get X Windows to use the >>> media keys. >>> >>> I mean to hook up one of those new Apple keyboards real soon now. They >>> are so so sweet! http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ They are available in >>> wired and wireless. >>> >>> And if you really like tactile response, the one true keyboard is the >>> IBM Model M. It also doubles as a weapon for beating burglars who invade >>> your home. >>> >>> Later, >>> Jason >>> >>> >> I still like the keyboards from NMB which they oemed to SUN, SGI and >> Compaq. >> Unfortunatly NMB doesn't make them anymore, only membrane ones now. But >> you >> might still find places which sell them. Otherwise I like Cherry keyboards >> as they are still using real switches on several of their models. Another >> good keyboard, old style IBM with loud click, is from >> http://www.pckeyboard.com/ >> but it looks like their website is having a problem right now. >> >> -- >> Regards, Ulf. >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 >> You can find my resume at: http://www.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html >> > > > > Im a fan of the Das Keyboard II, http://www.daskeyboard.com/ it feels > pretty comfortable and has a nice key weight. A little spendy though... > but hey its your wrists. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > Yeah, I was thinking about buying a Das Keyboard, but I'm not entirely sure if that is really what my wrists would be glad for. I'm also considering the Logitech Wave keyboard. Any thoughts on that one? http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/3071&cl=us,en From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 02:36:51 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3589916A41B for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:36:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: from mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E950013C469 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:36:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: (qmail 19694 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2007 02:36:50 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 13 Dec 2007 02:36:50 -0000 Message-ID: <47609A1E.90107@chuckr.org> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:34:06 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071107 SeaMonkey/1.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" References: <475F7332.2020501@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <475F7332.2020501@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: results of ports re-engineering survey X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:36:51 -0000 Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > *PLEASE ONLY REPLY TO ME OR -PORTS@* Omigod!! For Gods sake, could you PLEASE not have folks reply to the list! We have been sufficiently bombarded with this already. If you must have the replies public, then send them to freebsd-chat, but plesae stop polluting the list (as you are clearly asking people to do above). > > A few disclaimers: > > Neither I or anyone else is asking for FreeBSD to incorparate any > modifications to the current base system and/or ports collection. If > and when any code is developed from this process it will be committed > using normal commit and review processes. > > The following summary of results is based on my eyeballing of > answers and should not be interpreted as being any sort of > mathematically and/or scientifically valid in any manner. > > Number of responses: roughly 30 > > Summary of results: > > 1. Most respondents stated that both the underlaying OS and the ports > collection are equally important. When a preference was shown it was > for the underlaying OS in most cases. > > 2. On average people tend to interact with the port system once or > twice a week > > 3. The single best aspect of the ports system according to respondents > is dependency tracking when installing new ports > > 4. The single worst aspect of the ports system according to > respondents is dependency tracking when updating or deleting existing > ports > > 5. Most respondents would not change there answers tothe survey if > they where new to FreeBSD > > 6. Almost all respondents would use a new system if it fixed their > personal worst aspect of the current system > > 7. About 50% of respondents would use a new system if it broke the > best aspect of the ports system but fixed the worst aspect > > 8. Length of FreeBSD usage: rough avr. of 8 years with roughly 3 year > std. dev. > > 9. Prefered install method: ports > > 10. Usage roughly evenly spread among desktop, development and servers > > 11. Subsystem ratings (rough avr's): > > UI: 6 > Constancy: 9 > Dependancy tracking: 7 > Record keeping: 9 > Granularity: 9 > > 12. Most users are either sysadmins and/or developers > > Orginial Survey: > > As has been hashed out in -ports@ over the last few days there is at > least a need to examine weither or not the current ports system should > remain as is or potentially be re-engineered in the future (estimates > if and when needed vary from ASAP to 10-15 years). I have > volunteered to undertake a feasibility/pilot project to examine what > changes (if any) are needed in the system (for the purposes of this > thread I will not venture any of my own suggestions). I have the > following broad questions for people: > > 1. What is more important to your personal use of FreeBSD (the ports > system, the underlaying OS, some other aspect)? > > 2. How frequently do you interact with the ports systems and what is > the most common interaction you have with it? > > 3. What is the single best aspect of the current system? > > 4. What is the single worst aspect of the current system? > > 5. If you where a new FreeBSD user how would your answers above > change? If you where brand new to UNIX how whould they change? > > 6. Assuming that there was no additional work on your behalf would you > use a new system if it corrected your answer to number 4? > > 7. Same as question 6 but for your answer on question 3? > > 8. How long have you used FreeBSD and/or UNIX in general? > > 9. That is your primary use(s) for your FreeBSD machine(s) (name upto 3)? > > 10. Assuming there is no functional difference what is your preferred > installation method for 3rd party software? > > 11. On a scale from 1 to 10 (10 being the best) please rate the > importance of the following aspects of the ports system? > > a. User Interface > b. Consistency of behaviors and interactions > c. Accuracy in dependant port installations > d. Internal record keeping > e. Granularity's of the port management system > > 12. Please rate your personal technical skill level? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFHX3MyzIOMjAek4JIRAqqjAJ9YlNJW9Uqa21yK+sm1IST+KmO7QACfeum+ > 9rhuEkdKX6BKkFZr6WGmbDU= > =jhg0 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 02:45:59 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB00E16A468 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:45:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: from mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89A6D13C4E3 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:45:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: (qmail 21751 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2007 02:45:58 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 13 Dec 2007 02:45:58 -0000 Message-ID: <47609C43.6010304@chuckr.org> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:43:15 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071107 SeaMonkey/1.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Wickline References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <53e3a9930712102044v768e794fq118e2fe3d6d2fa0d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53e3a9930712102044v768e794fq118e2fe3d6d2fa0d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Brett Glass , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:45:59 -0000 Tom Wickline wrote: > On Dec 10, 2007 11:41 PM, Brett Glass wrote: >> It's worth noting that the WINE project, not long ago, abandoned >> the BSD license for the GPL despite urging from many sources to keep >> the code open and free for use by developers. We've stopped using it >> as a result. >> >> --Brett Glass >> > > Wins is under a free licence, its LGPL and I'm almost 100% sure you > have no idea why > the licence was changed! > Anyone who has sat in on company conferences discussing what changes would be forced because of GPL or LPGL knows that only the BSD is free, not thje GPL. LRPL is closer, but the folks who call GPL free are either lying or ignorant. They want to force you to do things their way, but they don't want you to be able to call that coercion. > Tom > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 02:52:48 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD4B16A481 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:52:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: from mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A70F213C447 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:52:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: (qmail 18766 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2007 02:52:48 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 13 Dec 2007 02:52:48 -0000 Message-ID: <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:50:04 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071107 SeaMonkey/1.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Russell Jackson References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> <200712111701.lBBH1LKH004886@fire.js.berklix.net> <200712111818.LAA17407@lariat.net> <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> In-Reply-To: <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Tom Wickline , Brett Glass , "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:52:48 -0000 Russell Jackson wrote: > Brett Glass wrote: >> At 10:01 AM 12/11/2007, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_%28software%29 >>> "... originally released Wine under the same MIT License as the X >>> Window System, but owing to concern about proprietary versions >>> of Wine not contributing their changes back to the core project, >>> work as of March 2002 has used the LGPL" >> What apparently happened is that one or two of the developers of Wine >> got their knickers in a twist about the idea that -- heaven forbid! -- >> someone might possibly make some money for the enhancements they made >> to Wine. > > Don't FUD. Nothing stops anyone from making money off GPL'ed software. The real reason is > that TransGaming et al weren't contributing anything back and wouldn't provide the source > to users who bought binaries in a usable fashion. What a huge distortion. How many company conferences have you sat in on, as company lawyers tried to figure out what would have to change if they used GPL software? If you say "none" then you are either lying or you haven't been called into those meetings (lucky you). No such problems with BSD. The GPL folks want to be able to coerce folks into doing things their way, but don't want to be seen as coercing folks, so they do a Wink'N'A'Nod towards the truth. It's still coercion. > >> (Never mind that the marketing and development costs for their >> commercial versions of Wine were eating all of their profits, and it was >> unclear whether they actually WOULD make any money.) Also, it is rumored >> (though I have not seen proof of it) that John Gilmore, an underwriter of >> the Wine project, threatened to withdraw support from some of these >> developers unless the license was switched to the GPL, thus forcing their >> hands. >> > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 03:46:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984EE16A419 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mspitzer@gmail.com) Received: from ro-out-1112.google.com (ro-out-1112.google.com [72.14.202.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E28B13C461 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mspitzer@gmail.com) Received: by ro-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k5so65811rog.13 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:46:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=FfhK81nnZ+cl+IOGmk2DEnVx0tl6gJtlsEetKDF8Euo=; b=GlJGiu+oX2CS/u8TQ87QeJb6KpfZ4mi/pZLXTiuuUtw74M4lENZFxblPoHB+plm6lSD/f0ZeMO41RBcBWI+KdgheWn1ToStVhd6c90g+rhbR1mk+3aaQKhdGl6VAUMI/rusWMMr4yq8To6RKL61nQ2GRU1Te2sYcB4MqxhSYjoo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=MSisC27NJv4CTh0//RMJ0ICLYsd995B8eZFsJl/GsV+ZZfwgQhgZXeb/SeBo/Qxs5Ndu+Z4+QQokNcASvy6jvoPKdsLzZ3IvhBbUTQg9F5YWEjbOr4jbncr2B+v7usFbXjhUDRLr8bCPLz0jHqo9rQFmhQAo7o9AMKDc3k6z5TY= Received: by 10.114.120.1 with SMTP id s1mr1661620wac.107.1197516638889; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:30:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.205.5 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:30:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8c50a3c30712121930h253f7d76tb96f7b7e979697c0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:30:38 -0500 From: "Marc Spitzer" To: "Chuck Robey" In-Reply-To: <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> <200712111701.lBBH1LKH004886@fire.js.berklix.net> <200712111818.LAA17407@lariat.net> <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> Cc: Russell Jackson , Tom Wickline , "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:46:24 -0000 On Dec 12, 2007 9:50 PM, Chuck Robey wrote: > Russell Jackson wrote: > > Brett Glass wrote: > >> At 10:01 AM 12/11/2007, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >> > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_%28software%29 > >>> "... originally released Wine under the same MIT License as the X > >>> Window System, but owing to concern about proprietary versions > >>> of Wine not contributing their changes back to the core project, > >>> work as of March 2002 has used the LGPL" > >> What apparently happened is that one or two of the developers of Wine > >> got their knickers in a twist about the idea that -- heaven forbid! -- > >> someone might possibly make some money for the enhancements they made > >> to Wine. > > > > Don't FUD. Nothing stops anyone from making money off GPL'ed software. The real reason is > > that TransGaming et al weren't contributing anything back and wouldn't provide the source > > to users who bought binaries in a usable fashion. > > What a huge distortion. How many company conferences have you sat in > on, as company lawyers tried to figure out what would have to change if > they used GPL software? If you say "none" then you are either lying or > you haven't been called into those meetings (lucky you). No such > problems with BSD. The GPL folks want to be able to coerce folks into > doing things their way, but don't want to be seen as coercing folks, so > they do a Wink'N'A'Nod towards the truth. It's still coercion. > One of the interesting things about socialism, in all in many evil forms(including gnu/fsf), is that they simply must lie about their program or no one of average intelligence would be stupid enough to sign up for it. It just goes to show you that without G_d religion gets much much worse. marc > > > >> (Never mind that the marketing and development costs for their > >> commercial versions of Wine were eating all of their profits, and it was > >> unclear whether they actually WOULD make any money.) Also, it is rumored > >> (though I have not seen proof of it) that John Gilmore, an underwriter of > >> the Wine project, threatened to withdraw support from some of these > >> developers unless the license was switched to the GPL, thus forcing their > >> hands. > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better. Albert Camus From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 04:35:37 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895E416A417 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:35:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from twickline@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A04C13C447 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:35:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from twickline@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so456069rvb.43 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:35:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=ejnK1sVEslWFnkEECaJi/4nqOSgMGG5IYOgQYV5JFKg=; b=shAY5Nq6mm8AvDhgStA14249cllPH8ObYt3l3h5JSjEdAAlUG5FB/PLjdEJ6IwTmCZOaGzqmHwssXMBAn3Hao5EESBXUysUVYq6wgBl/AQzHU5/S09tqn5L5oDldperLFq0QWslm10sW5Pl8KrocqWc/M5HwxPay0BzT/SqWi90= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=bqf4Fv+jijTLhK1Cx1zUFnacgg4LFt6Vk+zMpSezd9D4MObhKi6f4uWO1TMH2uiea7/Mg8GiANp5Jzzt3/jK4KMell8FXlbHGsPQ+KEkJZr7Pbp2eLUuX/wwktW9c2gG87JfBOxS6D7u2JVTGIi1wjHFDbw6HuUSssp25vm/pPI= Received: by 10.143.162.8 with SMTP id p8mr648011wfo.63.1197520536996; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.98.3 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:35:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <53e3a9930712122035i74062c56k92d3e4f3883644cc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:35:36 -0500 From: "Tom Wickline" To: "Marc Spitzer" In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30712121930h253f7d76tb96f7b7e979697c0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> <200712111701.lBBH1LKH004886@fire.js.berklix.net> <200712111818.LAA17407@lariat.net> <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> <8c50a3c30712121930h253f7d76tb96f7b7e979697c0@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Russell Jackson , Chuck Robey , "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:35:37 -0000 On Dec 12, 2007 10:30 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > One of the interesting things about socialism, in all in many evil > forms(including gnu/fsf), is that they simply must lie about their > program or no one of average intelligence would be stupid enough to > sign up for it. It just goes to show you that without G_d religion > gets much much worse. > > marc > That one gave me a chuckle :D Your just pissed because GPL makes people give back there changes! And from the way it looks you and a couple others here are mad because you cant go use others work and not have to contribute. You want the freedom to rob, steal pillage others hard work for your own good... And now you call this socialism because you cant do it? hahahaha.... What a crock of shit! Tom From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 05:12:53 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFCD16A419 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:12:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from optimus.centralmiss.com (ns.centralmiss.com [206.156.254.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0812013C448 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:12:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-072-148-013-213.sip.jan.bellsouth.net [72.148.13.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by optimus.centralmiss.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A2128454; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:55:35 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 574D361C44; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:55:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:55:35 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jason C. Wells" Message-ID: <20071213045535.GA22305@over-yonder.net> References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16-fullermd.4 (2007-06-09) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:12:53 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 07:59:58AM -0800 I heard the voice of Jason C. Wells, and lo! it spake thus: > > And if you really like tactile response, the one true keyboard is > the IBM Model M. I picked up the Model M I'm typing this on on eBay many years ago. It certainly was well used when I got it, and it's hardly had an idle day since. On the back, it lists the manufacturing date as 03-15-91. It still feels and works as solid as the day it was born. There are two kinds of keyboards; buckling spring, and crap 8-} -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 05:20:56 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D933916A418 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:20:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mspitzer@gmail.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D7B13C458 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:20:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mspitzer@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k17so886140waf.3 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:20:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=WpXU8N5TUR7hQE3ftIvZO+5mCQ+i+GXoht85SldipU0=; b=j1Ye77Ft6wR8hdjWI1B3Og9IUqO+DSB3zcUVYK7+vbRY/wTLvYZ61WxUbYnRWYy0D4AmPZk3GCf3Z1MHKCwaFFaS9rNhe/Z3lRaYYfBBAnOGI2Skik5S57nYmH2BX4ztaAwPrulIv98kg1AWDTpc7wA+Z7+TNe8V+2g3H7QHMZ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ernHhcfLUJOHZsUeCkW9qKarXaLW1W+q1UOx734Z7v7Gy+KIJKY8CfG1nRpKgpQGpzeFu7fk6WaBQHL2qg000blB+Ryi18zLkSBonKbCdu9MOHqbCRNlCayEI8Se2MhZDojgwzYHXBKBafDeAcXdKL0MPa0cL3UTb00HhHHHvaI= Received: by 10.115.108.1 with SMTP id k1mr1790596wam.42.1197523256158; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.205.5 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:20:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8c50a3c30712122120i56321cc6qb7d6f45ad4c8c952@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:20:55 -0500 From: "Marc Spitzer" To: "Tom Wickline" In-Reply-To: <53e3a9930712122035i74062c56k92d3e4f3883644cc@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> <200712111701.lBBH1LKH004886@fire.js.berklix.net> <200712111818.LAA17407@lariat.net> <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> <8c50a3c30712121930h253f7d76tb96f7b7e979697c0@mail.gmail.com> <53e3a9930712122035i74062c56k92d3e4f3883644cc@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Russell Jackson , Chuck Robey , "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:20:57 -0000 On Dec 12, 2007 11:35 PM, Tom Wickline wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 10:30 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > > One of the interesting things about socialism, in all in many evil > > forms(including gnu/fsf), is that they simply must lie about their > > program or no one of average intelligence would be stupid enough to > > sign up for it. It just goes to show you that without G_d religion > > gets much much worse. > > > > marc > > > > That one gave me a chuckle :D > > Your just pissed because GPL makes people give back there changes! And > from the way it looks you and a couple others > here are mad because you cant go use others work and not have to > contribute. You want the freedom to rob, steal pillage others > hard work for your own good... And now you call this socialism because > you cant do it? > No I am not, the gpl is a thing and I save my spleen for people. The thing that pisses me off is that the FSF and their minions deliberately and knowingly lie about what the terms and conditions are on the license they falsely call free. Face it when you redefine common words in the English language to mean something that is found in no dictionary or daily use and in point of fact contradicts at least one of the main uses of the word, ie meaning with out cost or encumbrance, you are willingly lieing through your fucking teeth and you know it. I am not compelled to do do anything as I avoid the entire family of gnu licenses except as an end user, so they get nothing and I can still use their software umm this is s freebsd list and freebsd has done quite well by having faith in the inherent decency of people in general, netgraph and BASM come to mind. Further more oh yea of little history unix, and linux, would not have grown to the degree it did if the berkley code was gpled, OS/Kernel features were competitive advantage back then, because I could not keep the code closed and it would have conflicted with ATT's license as well. > hahahaha.... What a crock of shit! stop projecting. marc > > Tom > -- Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better. Albert Camus From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 05:52:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBCF816A418 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:52:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899C913C442 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:52:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBD5UhBn024380; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:30:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) with ESMTP id lBD5UhDB024377; Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:30:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:30:43 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: "Matthew D. Fuller" In-Reply-To: <20071213045535.GA22305@over-yonder.net> Message-ID: <20071212221510.H24334@wonkity.com> References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> <20071213045535.GA22305@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:30:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:52:00 -0000 On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > I picked up the Model M I'm typing this on on eBay many years ago. It > certainly was well used when I got it, and it's hardly had an idle day > since. On the back, it lists the manufacturing date as 03-15-91. It > still feels and works as solid as the day it was born. > > There are two kinds of keyboards; buckling spring, and crap 8-} As I said when we first unpacked the brand new IBM PCs (around 1984-ish), I'd rather have the light switches on the wall. Push-push-push-CLICK!. Those were the original controversial keyboards with the reduced-size shift keys, because dammit, IBM knew what was best for you. Several years ago I found a bunch of Compaq keyboards, the big rectangular kind with a heavy metal plate in them. They don't have a lot of wasted space around the edge, all the keys are in the right place, they aren't tiring to use, they don't wander around, and they were like $5 each. I think I still have one new in a box. Of course, they were from before cHomPaq. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 10:26:14 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1567316A468 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:26:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from twickline@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED9A13C465 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:26:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from twickline@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so551178rvb.43 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:26:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=TKHvZZ87dnSz7rgQyRbAcP3FgZRFt3AwYHAbtuW2wqg=; b=Xrv+3MCG8+SOWUPwEPScO+my0k2GFIg+BrWwUEH03xtPa6B5iVnxIF61Rk6d54YxNNOCbcY5QzkURMXQXc7NKxnxeeChbDrJw0fH2gtr6joIBVHBt5TgKgFR6la3a6sAJLdgd8LuIyJP4PpftQfEqFjU2bDW3BiQJGsO59/u0Ks= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YfbsN/tYwDh0zyKJDh7py37FWf1h0/FuuWDXFMU6VatCdCnd/3KH7k9DE6lZvwbsbXbYs4URYLL2lIr3S/ifquAcA7XUYICTA/r0phyRYndY0oSEjDAQmVFiJWuas9rYjSA4kkfmqhuU3Wvbrj+9JoRutdel7yD+lB+L+Ohc29s= Received: by 10.142.83.4 with SMTP id g4mr672574wfb.103.1197541573240; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.98.3 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:26:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <53e3a9930712130226r59664a4dwef7e12626e23334e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:26:13 -0500 From: "Tom Wickline" To: "Marc Spitzer" In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30712122120i56321cc6qb7d6f45ad4c8c952@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> <200712111701.lBBH1LKH004886@fire.js.berklix.net> <200712111818.LAA17407@lariat.net> <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> <8c50a3c30712121930h253f7d76tb96f7b7e979697c0@mail.gmail.com> <53e3a9930712122035i74062c56k92d3e4f3883644cc@mail.gmail.com> <8c50a3c30712122120i56321cc6qb7d6f45ad4c8c952@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Russell Jackson , Chuck Robey , "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:26:14 -0000 On Dec 13, 2007 12:20 AM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > No I am not, the gpl is a thing and I save my spleen for people. The > thing that pisses me off is that the FSF and their minions > deliberately and knowingly lie about what the terms and conditions are > on the license they falsely call free. Face it when you redefine > common words in the English language to mean something that is found > in no dictionary or daily use and in point of fact contradicts at > least one of the main uses of the word, ie meaning with out cost or > encumbrance, you are willingly lieing through your fucking teeth and > you know it. An 'encumbrance is a legal term of art for anything that affects or limits the title of a property, such as mortgages, leases, easements, liens, or restrictions. Also, those considered as potentially making the title defeasible are also encumbrances. For example, charging orders, building orders and structure alteration. encumbrance \en-KUHM-brun(t)s\, noun: 1. A burden, impediment, or hindrance. 2. A lien, mortgage, or other financial claim against a property. So, what Marc is saying is he would LIKE to encumbrance GPL software, and affect or limit the title of a property.. and inforce a burden, impediment, or hindrance on all software. WoW....... Isn't this what Gates wanted done to the user groups of the early 80's ? > > I am not compelled to do do anything as I avoid the entire family of > gnu licenses except as an end user, so they get nothing and I can > still use their software > If there were more people like you it would be a 100% MS world.. then im sure you could inflict encumbrance on all of us right? > > stop projecting. You are free to have the last word... I'm done playing now :D > > marc > > > > > Tom > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 11:57:58 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E29A816A417 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@seaholm.caamora.com.au) Received: from seaholm.caamora.com.au (seaholm.caamora.com.au [203.7.226.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D88913C458 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:57:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@seaholm.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by seaholm.caamora.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) id lBDBvlP18543; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:57:47 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <20071213225746.17291@caamora.com.au> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:57:46 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: "Matthew D. Fuller" References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> <20071213045535.GA22305@over-yonder.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <20071213045535.GA22305@over-yonder.net>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 10:55:35PM -0600 Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:57:59 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 10:55:35PM -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 07:59:58AM -0800 I heard the voice of > Jason C. Wells, and lo! it spake thus: > > > > And if you really like tactile response, the one true keyboard is > > the IBM Model M. > > I picked up the Model M I'm typing this on on eBay many years ago. It > certainly was well used when I got it, and it's hardly had an idle day > since. On the back, it lists the manufacturing date as 03-15-91. It > still feels and works as solid as the day it was born. > > There are two kinds of keyboards; buckling spring, and crap 8-} my J1 Model M was manufactured 17 April 1989, and i've had it for 15 years, I found another one in an office languishing, it was bound for garbage. so when my 'M dies i've got a spare ... they are beautiful keyboards, make good benchpress bars as well, smile. if you can find one get, it make teh investment your arms/wrists/shoulders will thank you. I am a disabled man I use my keyboard some 8-10 hours daily, some day more, to communicate as well as to do some commercial computing work. every time i get out to a customers office and have to use thier modern/new ergonomic keyboards, well teh short story is that by teh end of the day i'm begging for my 'M .. they are great, solid keyboards, sturdy and highly recommended, even secondhand at whatever price a "new" keyboard will cost you, i've seen them on ebay so tehy are still available, get one before it get to status symbol mode and teh ebay ethos collectible mode kicks in (GRIN). hope this helps much kind regards jonathan -- ================================================================ powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system ==== === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ==== From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 20:45:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BA716A46C for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:45:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0199713C461 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:44:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5AC2089; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:44:50 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.1/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id E114B2049; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:44:49 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C58C5844AF; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:44:49 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: "Jason C. Wells" References: <7b233cbfabc5d3002f54794112b77d75@localhost> <868x40cjzi.fsf@ds4.des.no> <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:44:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4760057E.5040406@highperformance.net> (Jason C. Wells's message of "Wed\, 12 Dec 2007 07\:59\:58 -0800") Message-ID: <863au6gw8u.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keyboard X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:45:00 -0000 "Jason C. Wells" writes: > I really like my Logitech Ultra X. It's an OEM keyboard and not > available in stores. I got mine at Newegg for about $20. For me the > tactile scissor switch i.e laptop style keys are preferred. It is one > of few modern keyboards that don't try to _improve_the layout. It's a > straight PC104 layout. Now if I could just get X Windows to use the > media keys. I use those exclusively; it feels just like a laptop keyboard, so I don't have to adapt every time I dock my laptop or sit down at a workstation. The media keys work just fine in Gnome and Xfce. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 22:55:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9650B16A418 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:55:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: from mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67AD313C45A for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:55:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@chuckr.org) Received: (qmail 22034 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2007 22:55:20 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 13 Dec 2007 22:55:20 -0000 Message-ID: <4761B7B8.7000809@chuckr.org> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:52:40 -0500 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071107 SeaMonkey/1.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Spitzer References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> <200712111701.lBBH1LKH004886@fire.js.berklix.net> <200712111818.LAA17407@lariat.net> <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> <8c50a3c30712121930h253f7d76tb96f7b7e979697c0@mail.gmail.com> <53e3a9930712122035i74062c56k92d3e4f3883644cc@mail.gmail.com> <8c50a3c30712122120i56321cc6qb7d6f45ad4c8c952@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30712122120i56321cc6qb7d6f45ad4c8c952@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Tom Wickline , Russell Jackson , "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Brett Glass Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:55:26 -0000 Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 11:35 PM, Tom Wickline wrote: >> On Dec 12, 2007 10:30 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: >>> One of the interesting things about socialism, in all in many evil >>> forms(including gnu/fsf), is that they simply must lie about their >>> program or no one of average intelligence would be stupid enough to >>> sign up for it. It just goes to show you that without G_d religion >>> gets much much worse. >>> >>> marc >>> >> That one gave me a chuckle :D >> >> Your just pissed because GPL makes people give back there changes! And >> from the way it looks you and a couple others >> here are mad because you cant go use others work and not have to >> contribute. You want the freedom to rob, steal pillage others >> hard work for your own good... And now you call this socialism because >> you cant do it? >> This sort of idea is entirely common among the folks who push GPL. They assign their encumbrances to their licenses, THEN they claim (just to take the attention off the fact that their license, alone, has those encumbrances) that are "mad because you cant go use others work" (that's your quote, sir, look above if you disagree). The BSD license, in fact, DOES allow any user to use the code in any damn way they please, all it means is that folks lose the ability to force anyone else to also public their work. That's the reason that a huge portion of the commercial world is actually direclty violating the GPL, and just relying on the fact that no one has the dollars to go after them (thank god). BSD licensed code allows anyone, anywhere, to do whatever they like with their work, unlike GPL, which is as directly communist/socialist as the definition allows. The GPLeres always shift attention away from that fact. Just like you did above. What about the fact that the BSD license is about 15 lines long, while the GPL license is one of the most evilly legalistically worded documents I;'ve ever seen ... worst that the worst emplyment document I have ever been asked to sign. Of course, you're just going to ignore that. > > No I am not, the gpl is a thing and I save my spleen for people. The > thing that pisses me off is that the FSF and their minions > deliberately and knowingly lie about what the terms and conditions are > on the license they falsely call free. Face it when you redefine > common words in the English language to mean something that is found > in no dictionary or daily use and in point of fact contradicts at > least one of the main uses of the word, ie meaning with out cost or > encumbrance, you are willingly lieing through your fucking teeth and > you know it. > > I am not compelled to do do anything as I avoid the entire family of > gnu licenses except as an end user, so they get nothing and I can > still use their software > > umm this is s freebsd list and freebsd has done quite well by having > faith in the inherent decency of people in general, netgraph and BASM > come to mind. Further more oh yea of little history unix, and linux, > would not have grown to the degree it did if the berkley code was > gpled, OS/Kernel features were competitive advantage back then, > because I could not keep the code closed and it would have conflicted > with ATT's license as well. > >> hahahaha.... What a crock of shit! > > stop projecting. > > marc > >> Tom >> > > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 13 23:55:19 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE03816A418; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:55:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.MIT.EDU (VARK.MIT.EDU [18.95.3.179]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E88413C447; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:55:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.MIT.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.MIT.EDU (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBDNiDAk028272; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:44:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.MIT.EDU (8.14.2/8.14.1/Submit) id lBDNiDGe028271; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:44:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:44:13 -0500 From: David Schultz To: Julian Elischer Message-ID: <20071213234413.GA28240@VARK.MIT.EDU> References: <200712122021.lBCKLdvt045540@repoman.freebsd.org> <20071213223319.E81630@maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net> <4761BB7C.3010907@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4761BB7C.3010907@elischer.org> Cc: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Kip Macy Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf files src/sys/netinet tcp_ofld.c tcp_ofld.h tcp_var.h toedev.h src/sys/sys socket.h X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:55:19 -0000 On Thu, Dec 13, 2007, Julian Elischer wrote: > >> sys/netinet tcp_ofld.c tcp_ofld.h toedev.h > >> Log: > >> Add driver independent interface to offload active established TCP > >>connections > >> > >> Reviewed by: silby > >> > >> Revision Changes Path > >> 1.1256 +1 -0 src/sys/conf/files > >> 1.1 +126 -0 src/sys/netinet/tcp_ofld.c (new) > >> 1.1 +198 -0 src/sys/netinet/tcp_ofld.h (new) > > I think I'd have just gone for > tcp_offload.c > it's not the longest filename in the system. I don't think src/contrib/bind9/doc/draft/draft-ietf-dnsext-signed-nonexistence-requirements-01.txt should really count because it's a vendor source, though. We do, however, have src/lib/libarchive/archive_read_support_compression_compress.c From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 06:48:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D9E16A418 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:48:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bri@brianwhalen.net) Received: from entwistle.sonicboom.org (entwistle.sonicboom.org [66.93.34.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD50213C459 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:48:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bri@brianwhalen.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dsl093-034-235.snd1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.34.235]) by entwistle.sonicboom.org (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBE6KOpU092072; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:20:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bri@brianwhalen.net) Message-ID: <476220AA.5010603@brianwhalen.net> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:20:26 -0800 From: Brian User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" References: <4761E8AD.4080000@brianwhalen.net> <20071213194324.E7985@wonkity.com> <4761F7C5.1060605@brianwhalen.net> <20071213214449.P8646@wonkity.com> <20071213220036.K8646@wonkity.com> <47621CE8.2000807@highperformance.net> In-Reply-To: <47621CE8.2000807@highperformance.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mailing lists X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 06:48:44 -0000 Jason C. Wells wrote: > On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Brian wrote: > >> The fact that each mailing list exists as list@freebsd.org and >> freebsd-list@freebsd.org makes me need to make 2 filters for each >> list I subscribe to. Can I suggest that if this is going to >> continue, that the server shows one format for all the messages that >> go out? > > Filter on the Sender header. That is controlled by the list manager > and doesn't have duplicate names. For -questions, the Sender is > owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. > > Later, > Jason > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" This is just the kind of thing we should avoid, we're choosing to make the more difficult on user route because??? Brian From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 08:24:35 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07A716A41A for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:24:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7501213C4EC for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:24:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (ppp121-45-90-21.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net [121.45.90.21]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBE84S5S071457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:34:28 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:34:06 +1030 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <4761E8AD.4080000@brianwhalen.net> <47621CE8.2000807@highperformance.net> <476220AA.5010603@brianwhalen.net> In-Reply-To: <476220AA.5010603@brianwhalen.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart15555131.zsZN0dZVGx"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200712141834.17808.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -2.312 () BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 203.31.81.10 Cc: Brian , "Jason C. Wells" Subject: Re: mailing lists X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:24:36 -0000 --nextPart15555131.zsZN0dZVGx Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, Brian wrote: > > Filter on the Sender header. That is controlled by the list > > manager and doesn't have duplicate names. For -questions, the > > Sender is owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. > > This is just the kind of thing we should avoid, we're choosing to > make the more difficult on user route because??? =46ilter on List-Id. =2D-=20 Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C --nextPart15555131.zsZN0dZVGx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD4DBQBHYjkB5ZPcIHs/zowRArMkAJisS1ORwqT5HmTqxONJWktSIUUfAJ4q9zC7 zJrVkHkz4bDbkhBdye5CVQ== =ioV8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart15555131.zsZN0dZVGx-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 10:18:02 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F4016A41A; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:18:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2001:1b20:1:3::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1466613C44B; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:18:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBEAHjdZ051972; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:17:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lBEAHi77051971; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:17:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:17:44 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200712141017.lBEAHi77051971@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, das@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@elischer.org In-Reply-To: <20071213234413.GA28240@VARK.MIT.EDU> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:17:50 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf files src/sys/netinet tcp_ofld.c ?tcp_ofld.h tcp_var.h toedev.h src/sys/sys socket.h X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, das@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@elischer.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:18:02 -0000 David Schultz wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > sys/netinet tcp_ofld.c tcp_ofld.h toedev.h > > > > Log: > > > > Add driver independent interface to offload active established TCP > > > > connections > > > > > > > > Reviewed by: silby > > > > > > > > Revision Changes Path > > > > 1.1256 +1 -0 src/sys/conf/files > > > > 1.1 +126 -0 src/sys/netinet/tcp_ofld.c (new) > > > > 1.1 +198 -0 src/sys/netinet/tcp_ofld.h (new) > > > > I think I'd have just gone for > > tcp_offload.c > > it's not the longest filename in the system. I agree with Julian here. This isn't DOS where we need to fit filenames in 8.3 characters. There's no reason to abbreviate that way. > I don't think > src/contrib/bind9/doc/draft/draft-ietf-dnsext-signed-nonexistence-requirements-01.txt > should really count because it's a vendor source, though. > We do, however, have > src/lib/libarchive/archive_read_support_compression_compress.c Just out of curiosity I made a small survery on the src tree. First in src/sys only (this is a RELENG_6 machine): $ cd /sys $ find * | awk -F/ '{print length($NF)}' | sucs -k2 92 2 316 3 251 4 508 5 503 6 587 7 1506 8 816 9 919 10 678 11 629 12 499 13 348 14 224 15 153 16 85 17 58 18 48 19 25 20 24 21 6 22 11 23 5 24 5 25 3 26 1 29 1 33 As you can see, the maximum of the count graph of filenames' lengths is at 8 characters. The median is 9, the average is 9.4 chars. 18% of the filenames are 13 characters or longer, therefore "tcp_offload.[ch]" wouldn't be that unusual at all. When you look at C source files only ("find * -name \*.c"), then the average even reaches 10.6. By the way, "sucs" is an alias: sort | uniq -c | sort -n (I use that often.) It's not much different when you look at /usr/src which includes the 3d party contrib stuff (I grouped some of the lines for brevity): $ cd /usr/src $ find * | awk -F/ '{print length($NF)}' | sucs -k2 14 1 437 2 1173 3 1603 4 2489 5 3228 6 3442 7 6647 8 4173 9 3951 10 3370 11 2855 12 1921 13 1565 14 1062 15 841 16 752 17 430 18 446 19 707 20 - 24 250 25 - 29 95 30 - 34 51 35 - 39 12 40 - 44 11 45 - 49 1 50 1 51 1 52 1 57 The maximum is at 8 again, the median is 9 again, and the average is 9.7 (just slightly longer than in /sys). When only looking at C source files, the average is 10.2. Best regards Oliver "Mr. Statistics" -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "Unix gives you just enough rope to hang yourself -- and then a couple of more feet, just to be sure." -- Eric Allman From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 14:47:37 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A0016A417 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:47:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from raj@csub.edu) Received: from mh1.csub.edu (mh1.csub.edu [136.168.1.95]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D05B513C46B for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:47:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from raj@csub.edu) Received: from cserv65.csub.edu (cserv65.csub.edu [136.168.10.65]) by mh1.csub.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBDNs9GD005637; Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:54:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from raj@csub.edu) Message-ID: <4761C621.60909@csub.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:54:09 -0800 From: Russell Jackson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071119) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> <200712111701.lBBH1LKH004886@fire.js.berklix.net> <200712111818.LAA17407@lariat.net> <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> <8c50a3c30712121930h253f7d76tb96f7b7e979697c0@mail.gmail.com> <53e3a9930712122035i74062c56k92d3e4f3883644cc@mail.gmail.com> <8c50a3c30712122120i56321cc6qb7d6f45ad4c8c952@mail.gmail.com> <4761B7B8.7000809@chuckr.org> In-Reply-To: <4761B7B8.7000809@chuckr.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090909040203090009040004" Cc: Tom Wickline , Brett Glass , "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Marc Spitzer Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:47:37 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090909040203090009040004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck Robey wrote: > Marc Spitzer wrote: >> On Dec 12, 2007 11:35 PM, Tom Wickline wrote: >>> On Dec 12, 2007 10:30 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: >>>> One of the interesting things about socialism, in all in many evil >>>> forms(including gnu/fsf), is that they simply must lie about their >>>> program or no one of average intelligence would be stupid enough to >>>> sign up for it. It just goes to show you that without G_d religion >>>> gets much much worse. >>>> >>>> marc >>>> >>> That one gave me a chuckle :D >>> >>> Your just pissed because GPL makes people give back there changes! And >>> from the way it looks you and a couple others >>> here are mad because you cant go use others work and not have to >>> contribute. You want the freedom to rob, steal pillage others >>> hard work for your own good... And now you call this socialism because >>> you cant do it? >>> > > This sort of idea is entirely common among the folks who push GPL. They > assign their encumbrances to their licenses, THEN they claim (just to > take the attention off the fact that their license, alone, has those > encumbrances) that are "mad because you cant go use others work" (that's > your quote, sir, look above if you disagree). The BSD license, in fact, Seems like you left off the more important part of the quote, "... and not have to contribute." That is to say that you're free to do what you will with the code as long as you redistribute your changes. It's a simple requirement. Tat for tat. Stallman believes, rightly, that the freedom of the user is ultimately preserved through the freedom of the code; hence, there are restrictions on redistribution in order to guarantee the former. His writings are quite clear on this point. Nobody is lying; you are just willfully refusing to understand. > DOES allow any user to use the code in any damn way they please, all it > means is that folks lose the ability to force anyone else to also public > their work. That's the reason that a huge portion of the commercial > world is actually direclty violating the GPL, and just relying on the > fact that no one has the dollars to go after them (thank god). BSD > licensed code allows anyone, anywhere, to do whatever they like with > their work, unlike GPL, which is as directly communist/socialist as the > definition allows. > > The GPLeres always shift attention away from that fact. Just like you > did above. What about the fact that the BSD license is about 15 lines > long, while the GPL license is one of the most evilly legalistically > worded documents I;'ve ever seen ... worst that the worst emplyment > document I have ever been asked to sign. Of course, you're just going > to ignore that. > >> No I am not, the gpl is a thing and I save my spleen for people. The >> thing that pisses me off is that the FSF and their minions >> deliberately and knowingly lie about what the terms and conditions are >> on the license they falsely call free. Face it when you redefine >> common words in the English language to mean something that is found >> in no dictionary or daily use and in point of fact contradicts at >> least one of the main uses of the word, ie meaning with out cost or >> encumbrance, you are willingly lieing through your fucking teeth and >> you know it. >> >> I am not compelled to do do anything as I avoid the entire family of >> gnu licenses except as an end user, so they get nothing and I can >> still use their software >> >> umm this is s freebsd list and freebsd has done quite well by having >> faith in the inherent decency of people in general, netgraph and BASM >> come to mind. Further more oh yea of little history unix, and linux, >> would not have grown to the degree it did if the berkley code was >> gpled, OS/Kernel features were competitive advantage back then, >> because I could not keep the code closed and it would have conflicted >> with ATT's license as well. >> >>> hahahaha.... What a crock of shit! >> stop projecting. >> >> marc >> >>> Tom >>> >> >> > -- Russell A. 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14:48:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by supernews.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F4617034; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32:51 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unixathome.org Received: from supernews.unixathome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (supernews.unixathome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HJVAHKbZx2Uc; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from laptop.unixathome.org (p1070.clients.superclick.com [71.242.99.130]) by supernews.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A74917032; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32:48 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <476293D0.3090407@langille.org> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:31:44 -0500 From: Dan Langille Organization: The FreeBSD Diary User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian References: <4761E8AD.4080000@brianwhalen.net> <20071213194324.E7985@wonkity.com> <4761F7C5.1060605@brianwhalen.net> <20071213214449.P8646@wonkity.com> <20071213220036.K8646@wonkity.com> <47621CE8.2000807@highperformance.net> <476220AA.5010603@brianwhalen.net> In-Reply-To: <476220AA.5010603@brianwhalen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mailing lists X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:48:23 -0000 Brian wrote: > Jason C. Wells wrote: >> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, Brian wrote: >> >>> The fact that each mailing list exists as list@freebsd.org and >>> freebsd-list@freebsd.org makes me need to make 2 filters for each >>> list I subscribe to. Can I suggest that if this is going to >>> continue, that the server shows one format for all the messages that >>> go out? >> >> Filter on the Sender header. That is controlled by the list manager >> and doesn't have duplicate names. For -questions, the Sender is >> owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org. >> > This is just the kind of thing we should avoid, we're choosing to make > the more difficult on user route because??? I filter on sender. Have done so for years. No problem at all. As for difficult, I understand the list alias exists to make things EASIER for users. They can use either list name. If this is the biggest problem in your life, consider yourself fortunate. :) -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 15:25:20 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ABFB16A421 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:25:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.MIT.EDU (VARK.MIT.EDU [18.95.3.179]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC3C13C4EB for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:25:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from VARK.MIT.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by VARK.MIT.EDU (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBEFENFa035331; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:14:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from das@localhost) by VARK.MIT.EDU (8.14.2/8.14.1/Submit) id lBEFEMid035330; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:14:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from das@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:14:22 -0500 From: David Schultz To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@elischer.org Message-ID: <20071214151422.GA35275@VARK.MIT.EDU> References: <20071213234413.GA28240@VARK.MIT.EDU> <200712141017.lBEAHi77051971@lurza.secnetix.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200712141017.lBEAHi77051971@lurza.secnetix.de> Cc: Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf files src/sys/netinet tcp_ofld.c ?tcp_ofld.h tcp_var.h toedev.h src/sys/sys socket.h X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:25:20 -0000 On Fri, Dec 14, 2007, Oliver Fromme wrote: > > > I think I'd have just gone for > > > tcp_offload.c > > > it's not the longest filename in the system. > > I agree with Julian here. This isn't DOS where we need > to fit filenames in 8.3 characters. There's no reason > to abbreviate that way. > > > I don't think > > src/contrib/bind9/doc/draft/draft-ietf-dnsext-signed-nonexistence-requirements-01.txt > > should really count because it's a vendor source, though. > > We do, however, have > > src/lib/libarchive/archive_read_support_compression_compress.c > > Just out of curiosity I made a small survery on the src tree. > First in src/sys only (this is a RELENG_6 machine): [...] Just in case it wasn't clear, my comments about the longest filenames in the system were intended to be more amusing than serious. I have no quibble here, and I hope others can find better things to do than continue to argue about a filename. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 16:56:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538A716A417 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:56:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Stepstone@news.stepstone.fr) Received: from mta1.primary.edc.dartmail.net (mta1.primary.edc.dartmail.net [216.73.95.138]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A8413C467 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:56:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Stepstone@news.stepstone.fr) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:30:59 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: From: "Stepstone France" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Pour recruter en 2008... 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Pour vous desinscrire de notre liste de diffusion, ecrivez "desinscription" à [26]jula@stepstone.fr _________________________________________________________________ References Visible links 1. http://www.stepstone.fr/ 2. http://www.stepstone.fr/home.cfm?allowJAPU=1 3. https://www.stepstone.fr/mystepstone/mystep_overview.cfm? 4. http://www.stepstone.fr/eja/jobagent.cfm 5. http://www.stepstone.fr/content/FR/FR/home/contactus.htm 6. file://localhost/tmp/tmpL5a8HP.html#article1 7. file://localhost/tmp/tmpL5a8HP.html#article9 8. file://localhost/tmp/tmpL5a8HP.html#article8 9. file://localhost/tmp/tmpL5a8HP.html#article4 10. file://localhost/tmp/tmpL5a8HP.html#article5 11. file://localhost/tmp/tmpL5a8HP.html#article6 12. https://www.stepstone.fr/login/mystep_newuser.cfm? 13. LYNXIMGMAP:file://localhost/tmp/tmpL5a8HP.html#Map 14. http://www.stepstone.fr/ 15. http://www.stepstonesolutions.fr/Actualites_evenements/Actualites/Les_employes_europeens_recoivent-ils_des_primes_en_cas_de_bons_resultats.php 16. http://www.stepstone.fr/ads/offers.cfm?company=16959 17. http://www.stepstone.fr/ads/offers.cfm?company=16959 18. http://www.stepstone.fr/home_fs.cfm?contentpage=%2Folo%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Fbackurl%3Drecruiter%26new%3D1 19. http://marketing.stepstone.com/UM/T.asp?A144.763.16.5.309560 20. file://localhost/tmp/poll.html 21. http://www.stepstone.fr/quick_poll/resultpage/resultpage.cfm?poll_id=35&id=35 22. http://marketing.stepstone.com/UM/T.asp?A144.763.16.5.309560 23. mailto:info@stepstone.fr 24. file://localhost/tmp/info@stepstone.fr 25. http://www.stepstone.fr/ 26. mailto:jula@stepstone.fr?subject=desinscription Hidden links: 27. http://marketing.stepstone.com/UM/T.asp?A157.999.2.7.1238384 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 18:30:29 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8911016A417; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2001:1b20:1:3::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD73713C459; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lBEIUDhi069877; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:30:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id lBEIUAB0069876; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:30:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:30:10 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200712141830.lBEIUAB0069876@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, das@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@elischer.org In-Reply-To: <20071214151422.GA35275@VARK.MIT.EDU> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.2-STABLE-20070808 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:30:19 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf files src/sys/netinet tcp_ofld.c ??tcp_ofld.h tcp_var.h toedev.h src/sys/sys socket.h X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, das@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@elischer.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:30:29 -0000 David Schultz wrote: > Oliver Fromme wrote: > > Just out of curiosity I made a small survery on the src tree. > > First in src/sys only (this is a RELENG_6 machine): > [...] > > Just in case it wasn't clear, my comments about the longest > filenames in the system were intended to be more amusing than > serious. I have no quibble here, and I hope others can find better > things to do than continue to argue about a filename. My "statistics" certainly wasn't meant to be 100% serious either. (On the other hand, I relly do prefer readable filenames.) Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "IRIX is about as stable as a one-legged drunk with hypothermia in a four-hundred mile per hour wind, balancing on a banana peel on a greased cookie sheet -- when someone throws him an elephant with bad breath and a worse temper." -- Ralf Hildebrandt From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 19:17:39 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E20B16A417 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:17:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dking@ketralnis.com) Received: from ketralnis.com (cl-207.qas-01.us.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:4830:1600:ce::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D28313C46A for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:17:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dking@ketralnis.com) Received: from [192.168.1.64] (pix.xythos.com [69.4.176.194]) (authenticated bits=0) by ketralnis.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lBEJHZvK072957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:17:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dking@ketralnis.com) Message-Id: <552A7F27-4B6A-4AEC-BDE4-4E98EA65D89D@ketralnis.com> From: David King To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4761C621.60909@csub.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:17:28 -0800 References: <53e3a9930712060959t6f446534xee6ba49d043dd70a@mail.gmail.com> <200712110441.VAA05322@lariat.net> <1481.163.178.104.130.1197385733.squirrel@webmail9.pair.com> <200712111701.lBBH1LKH004886@fire.js.berklix.net> <200712111818.LAA17407@lariat.net> <475F1214.5020601@csub.edu> <47609DDC.1080809@chuckr.org> <8c50a3c30712121930h253f7d76tb96f7b7e979697c0@mail.gmail.com> <53e3a9930712122035i74062c56k92d3e4f3883644cc@mail.gmail.com> <8c50a3c30712122120i56321cc6qb7d6f45ad4c8c952@mail.gmail.com> <4761B7B8.7000809@chuckr.org> <4761C621.60909@csub.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.915) Subject: Re: Wine compatibility and performance on FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:17:39 -0000 Do you honestly think that you're going to convince each other of anything? Can you at least move it off-list please? On 13 Dec 2007, at 15:54, Russell Jackson wrote: > Chuck Robey wrote: >> Marc Spitzer wrote: >>> On Dec 12, 2007 11:35 PM, Tom Wickline wrote: >>>> On Dec 12, 2007 10:30 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: >>>>> One of the interesting things about socialism, in all in many evil >>>>> forms(including gnu/fsf), is that they simply must lie about their >>>>> program or no one of average intelligence would be stupid enough >>>>> to >>>>> sign up for it. It just goes to show you that without G_d >>>>> religion >>>>> gets much much worse. >>>>> >>>>> marc >>>>> >>>> That one gave me a chuckle :D >>>> >>>> Your just pissed because GPL makes people give back there >>>> changes! And >>>> from the way it looks you and a couple others >>>> here are mad because you cant go use others work and not have to >>>> contribute. You want the freedom to rob, steal pillage others >>>> hard work for your own good... And now you call this socialism >>>> because >>>> you cant do it? >>>> >> >> This sort of idea is entirely common among the folks who push GPL. >> They >> assign their encumbrances to their licenses, THEN they claim (just to >> take the attention off the fact that their license, alone, has those >> encumbrances) that are "mad because you cant go use others >> work" (that's >> your quote, sir, look above if you disagree). The BSD license, in >> fact, > > Seems like you left off the more important part of the quote, "... > and not have to > contribute." That is to say that you're free to do what you will > with the code as long as > you redistribute your changes. It's a simple requirement. Tat for tat. > > Stallman believes, rightly, that the freedom of the user is > ultimately preserved through > the freedom of the code; hence, there are restrictions on > redistribution in order to > guarantee the former. His writings are quite clear on this point. > Nobody is lying; you are > just willfully refusing to understand. > >> DOES allow any user to use the code in any damn way they please, >> all it >> means is that folks lose the ability to force anyone else to also >> public >> their work. That's the reason that a huge portion of the commercial >> world is actually direclty violating the GPL, and just relying on the >> fact that no one has the dollars to go after them (thank god). BSD >> licensed code allows anyone, anywhere, to do whatever they like with >> their work, unlike GPL, which is as directly communist/socialist as >> the >> definition allows. >> >> The GPLeres always shift attention away from that fact. Just like >> you >> did above. What about the fact that the BSD license is about 15 >> lines >> long, while the GPL license is one of the most evilly legalistically >> worded documents I;'ve ever seen ... worst that the worst emplyment >> document I have ever been asked to sign. Of course, you're just >> going >> to ignore that. >> >>> No I am not, the gpl is a thing and I save my spleen for people. >>> The >>> thing that pisses me off is that the FSF and their minions >>> deliberately and knowingly lie about what the terms and conditions >>> are >>> on the license they falsely call free. Face it when you redefine >>> common words in the English language to mean something that is found >>> in no dictionary or daily use and in point of fact contradicts at >>> least one of the main uses of the word, ie meaning with out cost or >>> encumbrance, you are willingly lieing through your fucking teeth and >>> you know it. >>> >>> I am not compelled to do do anything as I avoid the entire family of >>> gnu licenses except as an end user, so they get nothing and I can >>> still use their software >>> >>> umm this is s freebsd list and freebsd has done quite well by having >>> faith in the inherent decency of people in general, netgraph and >>> BASM >>> come to mind. Further more oh yea of little history unix, and >>> linux, >>> would not have grown to the degree it did if the berkley code was >>> gpled, OS/Kernel features were competitive advantage back then, >>> because I could not keep the code closed and it would have >>> conflicted >>> with ATT's license as well. >>> >>>> hahahaha.... What a crock of shit! >>> stop projecting. >>> >>> marc >>> >>>> Tom >>>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > Russell A. Jackson > Network Analyst > California State University, Bakersfield > > OPTIMIST: > Someone who goes down to the marriage > bureau to see if his license has expired. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 14 19:51:21 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B994E16A469 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:51:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phreaki@gmail.com) Received: from hs-out-2122.google.com (hs-out-0708.google.com [64.233.178.240]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0F213C4F0 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:51:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phreaki@gmail.com) Received: by hs-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id j58so1469829hsj.11 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:51:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:x-google-sender-auth; bh=1uvVAEPcIaJ/oVnCYZ9CoKcmGXth4MEnYSbBnVF8MOs=; b=dx/zhEM0BkQCL6AXqfkMklTInNJvEwZeARh4Um1EjucbRobH+PkrODZTkoiwPMB2yxU1KT5GOQxST+hV74lKMZXsfsiQbxpri6MBvlyEai63y9oFCA6RlUOjMkeY2RhpIBNcmQcqfEUvZZUrHgBmFIvUbJnDcLgzXtKodiopWwE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:x-google-sender-auth; b=ho6sSoFFqs4b4VDqn7YOhjFd1+wquxchwa1OVJxuPAcl5XHMIxoqoL1Osi396b2lgM1xcxusBI0QeD2f0Y+rQ9nKVQrAAi9qMk+DiDBUTd/CHXiOQpzyC43eufJpcyAu+Cqkkovz9nvFkBilQJ0gxkOs1CxEJmFRuEXq2JoXpDc= Received: by 10.142.114.15 with SMTP id m15mr1748433wfc.235.1197660228506; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:23:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.97.1 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:23:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6fb2b4650712141123n1d725bf6m296da1101e2de72e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:23:48 -0500 From: "Robert Atkinson" Sender: phreaki@gmail.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2d074a54d3e6d6ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: 7.0 BETA4, RC1 and everything after X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:51:21 -0000 I've noticed that the 7.0 BETA4 schedule has not been updated but that builds are available? RC1 was anticipated to begin Dec. 12th. Anyone with a better bird's eye than I able to give some thought on the overall progress toward RC1? I've looked at commits, problem reports and the like but thought I'd throw the question out there. I know the simple answer is: When it's ready. I'm just curious about the progress Oh, and kudos all that have worked hard on 7.0. I'm impressed more now than I was when I first tried 4.X. Thanks, Robert From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 15 10:45:14 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A73AC16A41A for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sat@cenkes.org) Received: from heka.cenkes.org (heka.cenkes.org [208.79.80.110]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83EC013C4D1 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sat@cenkes.org) Received: from amilo.cenkes.org (ppp85-141-135-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru [85.141.135.217]) (Authenticated sender: sat) by heka.cenkes.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2144A242F82D; Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:25:22 +0300 (MSK) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:25:17 +0300 From: Andrew Pantyukhin To: Long Chen Message-ID: <20071215102515.GF51627@amilo.cenkes.org> References: <9a05d2250712150110t1cddafdew1b0387fd8978ab22@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9a05d2250712150110t1cddafdew1b0387fd8978ab22@mail.gmail.com> X-OS: FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT amd64 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hi~ X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: infofarmer@FreeBSD.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:45:14 -0000 On Sat, Dec 15, 2007 at 01:10:41AM -0800, Long Chen wrote: > I am a newcomer. : ) Hey there! Please use for posts like this from now on :)