From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 04:53:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8457516A46E for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:53:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5697E13C45A for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:53:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@hub.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2736B11FDCFA; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:35:02 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 69699-10; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:35:01 -0400 (AST) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-7-245-234.eastlink.ca [71.7.245.234]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757F811FDCE4; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:35:01 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0B78CD17; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:34:59 -0400 (AST) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:34:24 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:53:56 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi ... I recently started working for a company that is using AFS to mirror their data between various data centers, in the US, Asia and the EU ... the idea is that the several thousand servers that are being run have access to identical information .. Now, depressingly enough, it looks like OpenAFS works on everything *but* BSD ... :( IBM AFS for AIX, Version 3.6 IBM AFS for Digital Unix, Version 3.6 IBM AFS for HP-UX, Version 3.6 IBM AFS for Linux, Version 3.6 IBM AFS for SGI IRIX, Version 3.6 IBM AFS for Solaris, Version 3.6 Does anyone know if there is any serious work being done to get AFS working under FreeBSD? I have a large project that I'm working on that AFS (or something equivalent) would be *very* useful for, but we're trying to keep it as FreeBSD-pure as possible ... Thoughts? Pointers? - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHiuZQ4QvfyHIvDvMRAlRMAJ9mcK6kOCdkudVlTFzzoPuAqgMOWQCfTY9k QRN/4A2GvUni6jNsDX8Du/U= =Mtrv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 05:56:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742B416A4F0 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:56:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mx1.highperformance.net (dsl081-163-122.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.163.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B17813C4E3 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:56:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from w16.stradamotorsports.com (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) by mx1.highperformance.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m0E5iSSX021665; Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:44:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Message-ID: <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:44:28 -0800 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Marc G. Fournier" , rees@umich.edu, openafs-devel@openafs.org, freebsd-afs@freebsd.org, port-freebsd@openafs.org References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> In-Reply-To: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=2.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=failed version=3.1.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on s4.stradamotorsports.com Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, rra@stanford.edu, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, matt@linuxbox.com Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:56:12 -0000 Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is any serious work being done to get AFS working > under FreeBSD? I have a large project that I'm working on that AFS (or > something equivalent) would be *very* useful for, but we're trying to keep it > as FreeBSD-pure as possible ... Yes. Please get in touch with any of the people CC'ed in this list. I believe Matt Benjamin is the one who is actually getting serious on this project. Patches were even mentioned in a recent email. I recall Jim Rees is knowledgeable on AFS. I also think one Derrick J. Brashear was interested/knowledgeable too, but I don't have his address handy. If I misrepesented anyone please feel free to correct me. Matt, if you do not know Marc, look up Postgresql. Marc is the port maintainer for postgresql as well as a postgres developer. (iirc) Me, I am just a user who put together an ugly, ugly little FreeBSD port a long time ago in the hope that it would inspire some people who were qualified to do real work to pick it up and run with it. There are a couple mailing lists suitable for FreeBSD porting discussions. One is run by the OpenAFS people and the other is run by FreeBSD people. Sorry for the spam and cross posts. It seems like the interest in OpenAFS on FreeBSD is building. I hope that this message will put the right people in touch with each other and that maybe a concerted effort to port OpenAFS to FreeBSD will arise. Later, Jason From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 07:03:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA2016A41A for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:03:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gergely.czuczy@harmless.hu) Received: from marvin.harmless.hu (marvin.harmless.hu [195.56.55.204]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AEFA13C448 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:03:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gergely.czuczy@harmless.hu) Received: from localhost (marvin-mail [192.168.0.2]) by marvin.harmless.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE717C0C25; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:03:48 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.4.2 (20060627) (Debian) at harmless.hu Received: from marvin.harmless.hu ([192.168.0.2]) by localhost (marvin.harmless.hu [192.168.0.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 580Fqtm2iOUC; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:03:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from marvin.harmless.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marvin.harmless.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520E17C0AF6; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:03:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:03:46 +0100 From: Gergely CZUCZY To: "Marc G. Fournier" Message-ID: <20080114070346.GA97105@harmless.hu> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=x-unknown; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> User-Agent: mutt-ng/devel-r804 (FreeBSD) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:03:52 -0000 --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Check out coda, it's also a distributed filesystem, and has an updated kernel module in 7-STABLE. The bits in 6.x are out-of-date, but it will be back in business from 7. On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 12:34:24AM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 >=20 > Hi ... >=20 > I recently started working for a company that is using AFS to mirror th= eir=20 > data between various data centers, in the US, Asia and the EU ... the ide= a is=20 > that the several thousand servers that are being run have access to ident= ical=20 > information .. >=20 > Now, depressingly enough, it looks like OpenAFS works on everything *bu= t* BSD=20 > ... :( >=20 > IBM AFS for AIX, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for Digital Unix, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for HP-UX, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for Linux, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for SGI IRIX, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for Solaris, Version 3.6 >=20 > Does anyone know if there is any serious work being done to get AFS wor= king=20 > under FreeBSD? I have a large project that I'm working on that AFS (or= =20 > something equivalent) would be *very* useful for, but we're trying to kee= p it=20 > as FreeBSD-pure as possible ... >=20 > Thoughts? Pointers? >=20 > - ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.or= g) > Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org > Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) >=20 > iD8DBQFHiuZQ4QvfyHIvDvMRAlRMAJ9mcK6kOCdkudVlTFzzoPuAqgMOWQCfTY9k > QRN/4A2GvUni6jNsDX8Du/U=3D > =3DMtrv > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 Sincerely, Gergely Czuczy mailto: gergely.czuczy@harmless.hu --=20 Weenies test. Geniuses solve problems that arise. --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) owGVVk9vG0UUD62QYCWQekagp16apt71nzh2YuSmTuzYLrUTxzZtQQLN7o7tqXdn NjOzdh3uCLUcEEc40A9QJJD4CJyRuPEl4NoDF97s2kloKyL2sNqZee/33vu9P7Pf vHN17cq133765dNbX3/7/Rs/vvWdmwljrfnYDomcMW7nc7m8vVPO57bs/JZdzhUL ReqWN0clsuOVys2nb/f2BdeUa3uwiGgFNH2ss1FAGP8QvAmRiupqrEf2trWSqzMV CcU0E7wCjAeM07OzgSRcjai0G9wTPuPjCpzEQlPfjiTjmrgBtawWDQKRsaz9CfWm IGINKEsywPQNBSRQAgj4TGnJ3BhVYcQCqhZK0zADhPswISjGIY58gsfWlEpOAwiF HwcUHYKy3R/U9u41HBhMKLhMK7Nbch4DkdTYs8XINroZQANoFuYsCCwXZQk6hLJu rDAqpWAkRQhlx7IOOXQEz8BdNJwvZqCQy20D0ZAvVDaLlUKx1gE7V8zlMtAh0oOm AwcilpxRCXOJBFSs22CbZ6/RbHfhqHkE/Xaz26hDp9Hv15qN5BCFWkRNKtBv1fLW 7Woht3xBi4HjOKsVQBsk9ZDxYAFKE2lomgs5RcZhJCQS6IkwInwBeoJeMgUmojHU DvqgBYRMSpTSk6pFmUwxkRACLtVzSjnMiGQiVummsUOlyhhmNDI67GegphhJkmE2 GkPjXPLJfFq1CBpMQRPrZl/RGZUkwG+ENXqKStxRqYTJi0uNgzLmmN8ZBeJ5JgHo LEJyXbWYR4IUlHEMMSSmAOEiJ10xz4BPI4mKiIXUUC7i8cRUFgRCTBUEbErhMKLc EGEIU4AgxreFnhj7G25ctfQG7PXrKawJrLJ+bgSp3+skPBqea+0HGfgY4zC+bDql 14jU2ZhpjHzI2ePLZFtH9vBSwHuMx5ci9ZttaB9f7l1fBJhq9ZLYKti6oKbVFoJT mHIxBzYy2cRssWTfZDGpE0PlMoO+Eca0jamGJctVyxRmChpzH3viQFKKFO+aQk7T DejHmEIkxSPq6bQs2jfCs6oWPN0zkOsGMoVTIqRp5uhJzGYkwFq5iUpx4KM/sGEy u4HFT0dxYAJOW35Ob2AMWi6MIvo6pVi1EZZJCorzZemgHcUoiGuceIrh9Pp3Fw4m pr60wjiOBEu6ZHd1asOyo18ZCOdPK3adQzmGLrbdMs4+9gXD0of1idZRJZudz+fO BOVMzOObiNcICQvAAeVJEkWLO+nhGP7z6fS7r6og2EMyEQJPFsujl9T60+RSeMlE e7+HKuVSfqtUKr5+sNUGw+OzmbasrQo0eXzUhFnByTlFWF9yfHPFGKtv1/d6By0W f9Ir9majRas9q886x7XguFO7uxN6H5Wmh/v+NPY/DgYHp6fiKK6djDuH93v7o8HD nSlC9I672WKt0Jxht5UedVX9wXY9zg6rm3U8xHdHy9nK4Ua3/lp3U2c+/38Paoww HFf59kjdWX4mnJlsmcQGeKOh1DKrZqWcC3JZIxcSnpyYCZc9x0O1gcDOUbGLaWIu XlyK4gw1HZgUA5bw9XNx+4LkRVeup7FZfcY97OFggXdwk2LX4aTcP42904Vl0LSo YPMm246XbN/B/4AQ72CFhWhZtm1Q7uM1wbBMNVXagSYusMkU9mMwS7oYeyU8m+5M Ucf6avfqm2vmh2P1u3LtyuzJ2rNnlZ13P3v/51t/btZePCcbvwe/7j5a++Hkr+fv /T18sfXHWqb49IPn7Sf0iy//AQ== =zhAa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 11:06:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03F116A479 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:06:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7E213C465 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:06:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m0EB6w7D052537 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:06:58 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.2/8.14.1/Submit) id m0EB6vGi052533 for freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:06:57 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:06:57 GMT Message-Id: <200801141106.m0EB6vGi052533@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:06:58 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o kern/112658 fs [smbfs] [patch] smbfs and caching problems (resolves b o kern/114676 fs [ufs] snapshot creation panics: snapacct_ufs2: bad blo o kern/114856 fs [ntfs] [patch] Bug in NTFS allows bogus file modes. o kern/116170 fs Kernel panic when mounting /tmp 4 problems total. Non-critical problems S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o kern/114847 fs [ntfs] [patch] dirmask support for NTFS ala MSDOSFS o bin/118249 fs mv(1): moving a directory changes its mtime 2 problems total. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 13:05:04 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB64816A468; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:05:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rees@citi.umich.edu) Received: from citi.umich.edu (unknown [IPv6:2001:468:e9c:3060::4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E0113C45D; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:05:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rees@citi.umich.edu) Received: from citi.umich.edu (dsl093-001-248.det1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.1.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Jim Rees", Issuer "CITI Production KCA" (verified OK)) by citi.umich.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB914774; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:05:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:05:10 -0500 From: Jim Rees To: "Marc G. Fournier" Message-ID: <20080114130509.GA8223@citi.umich.edu> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:05:05 -0000 The server runs on FreeBSD as far as I know. There is a client, and I think it still builds if you apply Matt's patches, which are in the OpenAFS bug tracking system. But it doesn't run. No one is actively maintaining the FreeBSD port. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 14:23:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26AA916A41B; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:23:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE2AE13C4DD; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:23:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784FD46B51; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:23:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:23:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "Jason C. Wells" In-Reply-To: <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> Message-ID: <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:21:50 +0000 Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@freebsd.org, openafs-devel@openafs.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:23:48 -0000 On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, Jason C. Wells wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >> Does anyone know if there is any serious work being done to get AFS working >> under FreeBSD? I have a large project that I'm working on that AFS (or >> something equivalent) would be *very* useful for, but we're trying to keep >> it as FreeBSD-pure as possible ... > > Yes. Please get in touch with any of the people CC'ed in this list. I > believe Matt Benjamin is the one who is actually getting serious on this > project. Patches were even mentioned in a recent email. I recall Jim Rees > is knowledgeable on AFS. I also think one Derrick J. Brashear was > interested/knowledgeable too, but I don't have his address handy. If I > misrepesented anyone please feel free to correct me. > > Matt, if you do not know Marc, look up Postgresql. Marc is the port > maintainer for postgresql as well as a postgres developer. (iirc) > > Me, I am just a user who put together an ugly, ugly little FreeBSD port a > long time ago in the hope that it would inspire some people who were > qualified to do real work to pick it up and run with it. > > There are a couple mailing lists suitable for FreeBSD porting discussions. > One is run by the OpenAFS people and the other is run by FreeBSD people. > > Sorry for the spam and cross posts. It seems like the interest in OpenAFS on > FreeBSD is building. I hope that this message will put the right people in > touch with each other and that maybe a concerted effort to port OpenAFS to > FreeBSD will arise. Arla, which is just an AFS client, runs on some versions of FreeBSD, although typically not really recent ones. I spent a little time this summer looking at getting it updated to 7, but ran out of time. I'd like very much to get at least the kernel parts of an AFS client into the base system, as otherwise any AFS port (be it Arla, OpenAFS, etc) will constantly be falling behind and breaking as the base tree moves forward. Our VFS tends to change with moderate speed, and having it in the base tree will allow it to be updated as part of regular changes to our KPI by the author of the changes, rather than watching more and more ifdefs appear in a third-party tree. I'm happy to lend a hand with this, but I don't have the time (apparently) to drive a port forward myself right now. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 15:54:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D239B16A418; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:54:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mx1.highperformance.net (dsl081-163-122.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.163.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893B113C457; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:54:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from w16.stradamotorsports.com (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) by mx1.highperformance.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m0EFsY2e024760; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:54:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Message-ID: <478B85BB.8000707@highperformance.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:54:35 -0800 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=2.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=failed version=3.1.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on s4.stradamotorsports.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:23:22 +0000 Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, openafs-devel@openafs.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:54:47 -0000 For those of you who haven't seen this. Here is my rudimentary port. It is nothing more than the FreeBSD parts wrapped around the OpenAFS source. I think I was working on version 5 of FreeBSD but I don't recall for sure. This was version OpenAFS 1.4.2. It compiled. The kernel module loaded. I was able to get tokens using the system heimdal. I even got a directory listing via the client. Attempting to manipulate files resulted in an immediate panic. http://www.stradamotorsports.com/~jcw/openafs/ I would advise those who are interested to discuss and choose a mailing list for continuing the effort. We are currently writing four different lists in this thread. I'll test whatever you guys come up with. I'll be running FreeBSD-6.3 real soon now. Later, Jason From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 16:40:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E26316A417 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:40:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (gizmo.acns.msu.edu [35.8.1.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04D213C469 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:40:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: from gizmo.acns.msu.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m0EGDokt077437; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:13:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jerrymc@gizmo.acns.msu.edu) Received: (from jerrymc@localhost) by gizmo.acns.msu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id m0EGDooZ077436; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:13:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jerrymc) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:13:50 -0500 From: Jerry McAllister To: "Marc G. Fournier" Message-ID: <20080114161350.GA77355@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:40:42 -0000 On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 12:34:24AM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > Hi ... > I recently started working for a company that is using AFS to mirror their > data between various data centers, in the US, Asia and the EU ... the idea is > that the several thousand servers that are being run have access to identical > information .. > > Now, depressingly enough, it looks like OpenAFS works on everything *but* > BSD ... :( > > IBM AFS for AIX, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for Digital Unix, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for HP-UX, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for Linux, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for SGI IRIX, Version 3.6 > IBM AFS for Solaris, Version 3.6 > > Does anyone know if there is any serious work being done to get AFS working > under FreeBSD? I have a large project that I'm working on that AFS (or > something equivalent) would be *very* useful for, but we're trying to keep it > as FreeBSD-pure as possible ... Well, there is a client-only AFS project called Arla. I have been using it for about 1 1/2 years with no problem. But, it tends to be some versions behind in the FreeBSD it supports. Whoever supports it apparently doesn't have the time or other resources to keep up to the most recent FreeBSD versions. I have been told by persons who have done an AFS port here to a proprietary BSD based UNIX (but not any of the current free ones), that the difficuly part is the client and that the server is relatively easy to port. The reason being that the client has to reach deep in to the kernel, but the server does not - is pretty much sufficient unto itself. I know that one of the impediments in the past was the politics with the AFS group that was spun out of CMU, vs IBM vs some other interests and whose pocketbook was going to get gored all confounded with some claims for a newer, more wonderful thing called DFS which was supposed to obsolete AFS and also be integrated with a distrubuted queueing system, but which now seems like will never become real. But those issues are fairly ancient and mostly settled. OpenAFS seems to be the result and it runs well on the systems listed in the OP. So it would seem like folks could just ignore all that and move on to getting a good working OpenAFS port -- if only enough people could spare the resources for doing the necessary work. I would sure like to see both a good AFS client and an AFS server become well supported. OpenAFS has some new big technical issues to solve. Maybe having the smarts of FreeBSD contributing to the thinking, it would help those issues come to reasonable solutions too. ////jerry > > Thoughts? Pointers? > > - ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org > Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQFHiuZQ4QvfyHIvDvMRAlRMAJ9mcK6kOCdkudVlTFzzoPuAqgMOWQCfTY9k > QRN/4A2GvUni6jNsDX8Du/U= > =Mtrv > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 14 16:47:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9E216A418 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:47:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick@kiwi-computer.com) Received: from kiwi-computer.com (keira.kiwi-computer.com [63.224.10.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5195A13C4F2 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:47:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick@kiwi-computer.com) Received: (qmail 23431 invoked by uid 2001); 14 Jan 2008 16:20:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:20:51 -0600 From: "Rick C. Petty" To: "Marc G. Fournier" Message-ID: <20080114162051.GA23327@keira.kiwi-computer.com> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-afs@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: rick-freebsd@kiwi-computer.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:47:33 -0000 > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if there is any serious work being done to get AFS > > working under FreeBSD? I have a large project that I'm working on that > >AFS (or something equivalent) would be *very* useful for, but we're trying > >to keep it as FreeBSD-pure as possible ... Recent work has been done with arla to work with FreeBSD 6.x. See this thread: https://lists.stacken.kth.se/pipermail/arla-drinkers/2008-January/004158.html -- Rick C. Petty From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 15 00:33:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954BD16A4E7 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:33:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from morganw@chemikals.org) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A80E13C455 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:33:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from morganw@chemikals.org) Received: from shop.chemikals.org ([75.182.2.94]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20080115003355.NFLN29372.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@shop.chemikals.org> for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:33:55 +0000 Received: from volatile.chemikals.org (root@r74-193-170-223.bssrcmta01.bscyla.by.dh.suddenlink.net [74.193.170.223] (may be forged)) by shop.chemikals.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m0F0Xsrk021942 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:33:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from morganw@chemikals.org) Received: from localhost (morganw@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by volatile.chemikals.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m0F0XqYn017699 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:33:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from morganw@chemikals.org) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:33:52 -0600 (CST) From: Wes Morgan To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (BSF 882 2007-12-20) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Can FreeBSD benefit from MacOS X ZFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:33:56 -0000 As the subject says... Can FreeBSD benefit from the macos port of zfs? I know this is a VERY new announcement, but not knowing much about macos x in general I'm wondering how much it might help our tree, with respect to both the memory and 32-bit issues. Just throwing it out there for discussion, if anyone has any knowledge of both. Regards, Wes From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 15 04:37:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB85B16A417; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:37:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@linuxbox.com) Received: from aa.linuxbox.com (aa.linuxbox.com [134.215.213.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2D813C44B; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:37:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@linuxbox.com) Received: from trosper.private.linuxbox.com (trosper.private.linuxbox.com [10.1.1.45]) by aa.linuxbox.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id m0F4QfOm005515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:26:51 -0500 Received: by trosper.private.linuxbox.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 7AB17D9A1DCA; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:26:41 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on trosper.private.linuxbox.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.1.7 Received: from secant.private.linuxbox.com (unknown [10.1.1.217]) by trosper.private.linuxbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3631D9A1DC8; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:26:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <478C35F3.7010606@linuxbox.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:26:27 -0500 From: Matt Benjamin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aa.linuxbox.com [10.1.1.1]); Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:27:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, "Jason C. Wells" , Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:37:54 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hi guys (took a few locations off the cc, hope that's ok...), I think there's good support from the openafs side for this. Derrick is supportive. Jim is interested in seeing patches. (Openafs gatekeeper/elder folks.) I can commit some development time to it. I did some easy build cleanups for FreeBSD 7, and submitted them. If there's something formal we should be doing, let Derrick know. Matt - -- Matt Benjamin The Linux Box 206 South Fifth Ave. Suite 150 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 http://linuxbox.com tel. 734-761-4689 fax. 734-769-8938 cel. 734-216-5309 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHjDXyJiSUUSaRdSURCBA3AKCKe0dg83WVdGBTDfaHDYppnAVkKwCfesCB 31XJ2n+Xukn7dwt8e6R6GbY= =x5qW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 15 05:00:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A041316A41A; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:00:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mx1.highperformance.net (dsl081-163-122.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.163.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2249413C478; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from w16.stradamotorsports.com (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) by mx1.highperformance.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m0F50pWU028750; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:00:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Message-ID: <478C3E05.7060307@highperformance.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:00:53 -0800 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Benjamin References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <478C35F3.7010606@linuxbox.com> In-Reply-To: <478C35F3.7010606@linuxbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=2.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=failed version=3.1.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on s4.stradamotorsports.com Cc: port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, Robert Watson , freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:00:59 -0000 Matt Benjamin wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > Hi guys (took a few locations off the cc, hope that's ok...), I am pretty sure that the larger number of the people in this discussion are already subscribed to port-freebsd@openafs.org. No one piped up so I'll make a proposal. I invite the others to subscribe to port-freebsd@openafs.org and use it for porting efforts. Matt, it looks like your the one with the desire to work this in earnest. It also looks like some pretty capable people are speaking up about OpenAFS. I'm thrilled. If you can post a port or patches to a website on a regular basis I will gladly try to build them on regular basis. I'll help in my userly way. Later, Jason C. Wells From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 15 05:51:08 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33BC116A41B; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:51:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@linuxbox.com) Received: from aa.linuxbox.com (aa.linuxbox.com [134.215.213.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C0A13C4D1; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:51:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@linuxbox.com) Received: from trosper.private.linuxbox.com (trosper.private.linuxbox.com [10.1.1.45]) by aa.linuxbox.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id m0F5oKwE010709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:50:30 -0500 Received: by trosper.private.linuxbox.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 5CB42D9A1DD5; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:50:19 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on trosper.private.linuxbox.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.1.7 Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [10.8.0.6]) by trosper.private.linuxbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9462AD9A1DD3; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:50:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <478C4994.50009@linuxbox.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:50:12 -0500 From: Matt Benjamin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <478C35F3.7010606@linuxbox.com> <478C3E05.7060307@highperformance.net> In-Reply-To: <478C3E05.7060307@highperformance.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aa.linuxbox.com [10.1.1.1]); Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:51:05 -0500 (EST) Cc: port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, Robert Watson , freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:51:08 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Thanks, Jason. A lot of work has been done over the last several years, by Derrick, Jim, and others. I haven't worked with the freebsd port until recently, although I work on the cache mgr in general these last couple years. (Also, Derrick says, fixing kern/75710 will help him be more productive on freebsd. He sent a patch, and is grumpy it stalled out somewhere.) Thanks, Matt Jason C. Wells wrote: | Matt Benjamin wrote: |> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |> Hash: SHA256 |> |> Hi guys (took a few locations off the cc, hope that's ok...), | | I am pretty sure that the larger number of the people in this discussion | are already subscribed to port-freebsd@openafs.org. No one piped up so | I'll make a proposal. I invite the others to subscribe to | port-freebsd@openafs.org and use it for porting efforts. | | Matt, it looks like your the one with the desire to work this in | earnest. It also looks like some pretty capable people are speaking up | about OpenAFS. I'm thrilled. | | If you can post a port or patches to a website on a regular basis I will | gladly try to build them on regular basis. I'll help in my userly way. | | Later, | Jason C. Wells - -- Matt Benjamin The Linux Box 206 South Fifth Ave. Suite 150 Ann Arbor, MI 48104 http://linuxbox.com tel. 734-761-4689 fax. 734-769-8938 cel. 734-216-5309 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHjEmUJiSUUSaRdSURCLEKAJ42fDHMKdgB/ei761Sb4dcovDSQWgCfdKC4 ohpzPgoCV5fkp86YJ88JhpA= =XC8o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 15 20:16:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B2F16A421 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:16:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from u25192@vm39.bln2.vrmd.de) Received: from vm39.bln2.vrmd.de (vm39.bln2.vrmd.de [81.28.232.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ABCC13C442 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:16:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from u25192@vm39.bln2.vrmd.de) Received: from u25192 by vm39.bln2.vrmd.de with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JErrO-0000vJ-Tq for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:54:10 +0100 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org From: Citibank Australia Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:54:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: your profile has been locked X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: profiles@citibank.com.au List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:16:29 -0000 Your Online Banking Profile Has Been Blocked For your security, your online banking profile has been locked due to inactivity or because of many failed login attempts. 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References 1. http://www.fqmurcia.org//portal/themes/aston_flower_red/images/citibank.com.au/www.citibank.com.au/ From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 06:16:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25F4216A417 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:16:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onkar.n.m@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A0613C458 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:16:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onkar.n.m@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so123548rvb.43 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:16:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=0WG5Gb611avZPVribL+Hvgdsl6ppUi9N2s28lm5ydk0=; b=LM2W0ntOwwdC6oVn7uvLr82bzKcyt2V3tM1U4IVkTFEZSrrhC5Q4DvBrdvL1WQVGZ2SfQlrFd1x3yYuuTz3C1wK/xdgF87UYgNWUBDl+eggRoZB1dx/rLvXghThYPJBa75OPv9358Ltql5yP3NoQszOlyR7stbIik/ctn06xxjo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=EPVyqC2U7W6Wk3Y+0nkXtAngi+a20W9P2xTbejjSMIAC3O5uaSsxvLWqSkNq5Houyvg383pW9wb8toftlbhxqCflDj05vnOCdPZ32+dmP8DQkZcMFrVxvAmn426XKymsw2r3m3QSEAZ8R6gU9SyB0SQcMPEtnghgMNKd49AV8Ow= Received: by 10.141.206.13 with SMTP id i13mr274844rvq.211.1200462725131; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.194.1 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:52:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <6933400d0801152152o2b692cabl2dc816ac57ae9396@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:22:05 +0530 From: Onkar To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Intermezzo FS on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:16:38 -0000 Hi all, This is my first post on FreeBSD mailing list ; so sorry if I am not adhering to any rules. My Question was : (1) Is Intermezzo File system ported onto FreeBSD. [Y/N] (2) If (1) is N, Why it is not ported for so long ? Is there any specific reason (licensing etc (but Intermezzo FS is under GPL) )? [Y/N] (3) If (2) is Y, Please let me know the reason. (4) If (2) is N , Can I start porting it to FreeBSD now ? [Y/N] (5) if (4) is Y, then how to register the project (i.e., "Intermezzo on FreeBSD") ? Seniors in FreeBSD FS mailing list , please guide me in this regard. Thanks & regards, Onkar From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 09:28:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF60D16A417 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:28:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from u+openafsdev-sr55@chalmers.se) Received: from anubis.medic.chalmers.se (anubis.medic.chalmers.se [129.16.30.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985FB13C442 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:28:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from u+openafsdev-sr55@chalmers.se) Received: from chalmers.se (pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se [129.16.31.249]) by anubis.medic.chalmers.se (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D51E3C1B; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:56:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:56:30 +0100 From: Rune To: "Marc G. Fournier" Message-ID: <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, jcw@highperformance.net Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:28:48 -0000 Hi Marc, > >Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know if there is any serious work being done to get AFS > >>working under FreeBSD? I have a large project that I'm working on that > >>AFS (or something equivalent) would be *very* useful for, but we're > >>trying to keep it as FreeBSD-pure as possible ... What are the crucial properties of the file system needed by your project? Wonder if Coda would fit the bill. (I have got also a large project, explicitely relying on Coda.) Even though Coda is not an "equivalent" to AFS, it shares many of its very useful properties, having the same design roots as AFS, while better suited for mobile computing. Coda has its own strength and limitations, for example, it doesn't do file locking. It suffers also from kernel changes (see below) but my guess is that it is a lot less of a challenge to maintain the kernel part of Coda in good shape compared to AFS. The amount of work should be comparable to older Arla. The newest version of Arla seems to have dropped support for FreeBSD, presumably because of moving more functionality into the kernel, like OpenAFS does. Unfortunately, according to http://coda.wikidev.net/SupportedPlatforms: (presumably related to 6.x, wonder if it is solved in 7.0?) ------------------------------------------------------------ There were several sweeping changes in freebsd, and in the case where the developers didn't exactly know how to solve it for Coda, they just removed the related code. For instance, they don't support vget with a device/inode number pair anymore, so they simply removed the complete coda_open codepath. As a result it is impossible to open any files or directories in /coda with the current fbsd kernel module. Patches for -CURRENT that should help can be found at http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=fbsd-coda.git;a=summary . There is also http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=fbsd-coda.git;a=shortlog;h=jaharkes/pending , a set of patches that was sent to the fbsd developers who supposedly ignored them. You can grab the snapshot of the most recent version which should untar to fbsd-coda.git, then move /usr/sys/coda aside and replace with a symlink to where you untarred fbsd-coda. ------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, Jason C. Wells wrote: > >Sorry for the spam and cross posts. It seems like the interest in OpenAFS > >on FreeBSD is building. I hope that this message will put the right > >people in touch with each other and that maybe a concerted effort to port > >OpenAFS to FreeBSD will arise. I want to hopefully make right people aware that there is an interest in Coda on FreeBSD. Wonder who has the influence to make Coda a "first-class citizen" of FreeBSD? Best regards, Rune From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 10:23:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2D016A417 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-fs@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E31413C474 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-fs@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JF5Qg-0004iA-Ce for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:23:30 +0000 Received: from lara.cc.fer.hr ([161.53.72.113]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:23:30 +0000 Received: from ivoras by lara.cc.fer.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:23:30 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:23:22 +0100 Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: <6933400d0801152152o2b692cabl2dc816ac57ae9396@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCB632B5EADE2D89711AB450D" X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: lara.cc.fer.hr User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20070801) In-Reply-To: <6933400d0801152152o2b692cabl2dc816ac57ae9396@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Sender: news Subject: Re: Intermezzo FS on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:23:34 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCB632B5EADE2D89711AB450D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Onkar wrote: > Hi all, > This is my first post on FreeBSD mailing list ; so sorry if I = am > not adhering to any rules. >=20 > My Question was : > (1) Is Intermezzo File system ported onto Fre= eBSD. > [Y/N] Almost certainly not. > (2) If (1) is N, Why it is not ported for so = long > ? Is there any specific reason (licensing etc (but Intermezzo FS is und= er > GPL) )? [Y/N] Nobody payed anybody to do it, and nobody needed it badly enough to do it themselves. > (4) If (2) is N , Can I start porting it to > FreeBSD now ? [Y/N] Yes! As long as you keep everything needed for the module (more specifically, everything under non-BSD friendly license) in a separate module, there wouldn't be licensing problems. I've did some reading about Intermezzo and one of the things about it is that it's described as "working on top of a journaled file system". By its specification it seems it doesn't actually need a journal but a "file system operations stream". There's no general way of generating these records (AFAIK there is in DragonflyBSD) but maybe it would be enough to hook up like a nullfs mount. > (5) if (4) is Y, then how to register the pro= ject > (i.e., "Intermezzo on FreeBSD") ? That sounds like a good name. If you are serious about it, maybe you could ask for a Perforce account (if you can deal with the way it works :) ), a wiki account, etc. --------------enigCB632B5EADE2D89711AB450D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHjdsaldnAQVacBcgRAuM+AKCmxeJb+VgMXn77bmt7jAVJDeq90QCffVwt RmeVcKnitcLiikm6s694KTc= =S6YS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCB632B5EADE2D89711AB450D-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 15:17:50 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3E816A46C for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:17:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from anderson@freebsd.org) Received: from ns.trinitel.com (186.161.36.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com [72.36.161.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B436413C459 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:17:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from anderson@freebsd.org) Received: from proton.storspeed.com (209-163-168-124.static.tenantsolutions.com [209.163.168.124] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by ns.trinitel.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m0GFHkYE045251; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:17:48 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <478E2019.2000300@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:17:45 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ivan Voras References: <6933400d0801152152o2b692cabl2dc816ac57ae9396@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on ns.trinitel.com Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intermezzo FS on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:17:50 -0000 Ivan Voras wrote: > Onkar wrote: >> Hi all, >> This is my first post on FreeBSD mailing list ; so sorry if I am >> not adhering to any rules. >> >> My Question was : >> (1) Is Intermezzo File system ported onto FreeBSD. >> [Y/N] > > Almost certainly not. > >> (2) If (1) is N, Why it is not ported for so long >> ? Is there any specific reason (licensing etc (but Intermezzo FS is under >> GPL) )? [Y/N] > > Nobody payed anybody to do it, and nobody needed it badly enough to do > it themselves. > >> (4) If (2) is N , Can I start porting it to >> FreeBSD now ? [Y/N] > > Yes! As long as you keep everything needed for the module (more > specifically, everything under non-BSD friendly license) in a separate > module, there wouldn't be licensing problems. > > I've did some reading about Intermezzo and one of the things about it is > that it's described as "working on top of a journaled file system". By > its specification it seems it doesn't actually need a journal but a > "file system operations stream". There's no general way of generating > these records (AFAIK there is in DragonflyBSD) but maybe it would be > enough to hook up like a nullfs mount. > >> (5) if (4) is Y, then how to register the project >> (i.e., "Intermezzo on FreeBSD") ? > > That sounds like a good name. If you are serious about it, maybe you > could ask for a Perforce account (if you can deal with the way it works > :) ), a wiki account, etc. Intermezzo would be great to have available for FreeBSD. I can say that I have used nullfs in the past to snoop file system operations when used as a transparent layer, and it works well. A bit more work could be done to extend that into a decent format usable by intermezzo, or even further used by something like the Apple fsevents. Eric From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 20:33:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D2B16A494; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:33:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhutz@cmu.edu) Received: from jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (JACKFRUIT.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.201.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7F413C455; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:33:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhutz@cmu.edu) Received: from atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu (ATLANTIS.PC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.216.110]) (authenticated bits=0) by jackfruit.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m0GImqOi012702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:48:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:48:52 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Robert Watson , "Jason C. Wells" Message-ID: <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:09:26 +0000 Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, openafs-devel@openafs.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, jhutz@cmu.edu Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:33:11 -0000 --On Monday, January 14, 2008 02:23:47 PM +0000 Robert Watson wrote: > I'd like very much to get at least the kernel parts of an AFS client into > the base system. That may well be realistic for arla, though I believe there was a period for a while where the kernel/arlad interface was evolving to support features like chunking. I pay only superficial attention to arla-drinkers, so I don't know what the status of any of that is; for that, you'd have to ask someone who is actively involved in arla development (I believe there are some such people on this list). It is unlikely ever to happen for OpenAFS, in which virtually all of the cache manager code is in-kernel and most of it is cross-platform. Trying to pull the OpenAFS cache manager into the FreeBSD kernel would be equivalent to forking OpenAFS; what you'd get would work and would keep up with FreeBSD, but it would be unlikely to keep up with OpenAFS. The "let's just slurp everything into the main distribution so we don't have to worry about stable interfaces" approach is really poor. It encourages bad engineering practice among people maintaining the main distribution, discourages innovation and extension by others, and generally doesn't scale. It's far better to either attempt to maintain stable external interfaces to the VFS and VM subsystems, or else admit that you don't have the resources to do so given the relatively small number of external users, in which case you almost certainly also don't have the resources to keep on top of updates to something like OpenAFS. In the long run, I'm guessing that the OpenAFS cache manager evolves more quickly than FreeBSD's VFS interface, which makes pulling the CM into the kernel tree a losing battle. If you disagree, by all means fork that part of AFS (or get someone else to do so) and see what happens (AFS's user/kernel and RPC interfaces are both fairly stable, so forking just the kernel parts should be mostly feasible). -- Jeff From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 20:52:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D718716A419; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:52:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70ED613C478; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:52:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1EB646C05; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:52:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:52:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jeffrey Hutzelman In-Reply-To: <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> Message-ID: <20080116203521.K15541@fledge.watson.org> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:27:56 +0000 Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, "Jason C. Wells" , openafs-devel@openafs.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:52:57 -0000 On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > --On Monday, January 14, 2008 02:23:47 PM +0000 Robert Watson > wrote: > >> I'd like very much to get at least the kernel parts of an AFS client into >> the base system. > > That may well be realistic for arla, though I believe there was a period for > a while where the kernel/arlad interface was evolving to support features > like chunking. I pay only superficial attention to arla-drinkers, so I > don't know what the status of any of that is; for that, you'd have to ask > someone who is actively involved in arla development (I believe there are > some such people on this list). > > It is unlikely ever to happen for OpenAFS, in which virtually all of the > cache manager code is in-kernel and most of it is cross-platform. Trying to > pull the OpenAFS cache manager into the FreeBSD kernel would be equivalent > to forking OpenAFS; what you'd get would work and would keep up with > FreeBSD, but it would be unlikely to keep up with OpenAFS. I chatted with Darrick for a while on IM yesterday (or was it the day before) to try and get a better understanding of the OpenAFS parts, and now that I know a little more, agree. My primary experience until now has been with Arla, which has a very stable interface between its relatively static kernel module and the userspace cache manager, so the main on-going engineering for the kernel module is tracking changes in the FreeBSD VFS rather than tracking Arla changes. > The "let's just slurp everything into the main distribution so we don't have > to worry about stable interfaces" approach is really poor. It encourages > bad engineering practice among people maintaining the main distribution, > discourages innovation and extension by others, and generally doesn't scale. > It's far better to either attempt to maintain stable external interfaces to > the VFS and VM subsystems, or else admit that you don't have the resources > to do so given the relatively small number of external users, in which case > you almost certainly also don't have the resources to keep on top of updates > to something like OpenAFS. Right now we maintain a relatively stable VM/VFS KPI withing a major release (i.e, FreeBSD 6.0 -> 6.1 -> 6.2 -> 6.3), but see fairly significant changes between major releases (5.x -> 6.x -> 7.x, etc). I expect to see further changes in VFS for 8.x (and some of the locking-related ones have already started going in). The historic problem for Arla has been that instead of tracking these VFS changes as they are made, they had to catch up every once in a while. Normally that "every once in a while" has been at the point where a FreeBSD branch is coming to the end of support rather than when it is new and shiny. The result has been that Arla is pretty hard to use with FreeBSD as you either have to run a relatively old version of FreeBSD, or update the Arla kernel parts yourself (neither exciting prospects). In particular, if you are a FreeBSD kernel developer, you will never be running Arla as you are almost certainly running something on the development HEAD and not an aging branch. This leads to a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem, in which FreeBSD developers never use AFS, and this almost certainly an obstacle to it getting much use in the wider FreeBSD community. If there's sufficient interest in the AFS community to create and maintain a port of OpenAFS to FreeBSD, I think that would be wonderful. However, in light of the fact that it hasn't really happened to date, I've been trying to think of ways to help support that community a bit better. In the case of Arla, there's a quite logical path: if we import the nnpfs kernel module (but not cache manager), then it will track FreeBSD development and almost certainly work with little or no trouble on new major releases, as sweeps to various KPIs will happen "for free". If that doesn't work with OpenAFS due to structural differences from Arla, that's a shame (because it is easy in the case of Arla), but life. So let's turn the question around: to get the OpenAFS client up and running on FreeBSD, do you have any technical requirements not yet met by FreeBSD, or is it really about finding someone willing to spend some time doing the bulk of the technical work and track bugs for a while? Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 23:37:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEDB16A419 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:37:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EBA213C45B for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:37:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2862087; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:37:13 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.2/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7CEF2082; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:37:12 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C553484492; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:37:12 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Wes Morgan References: Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:37:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Wes Morgan's message of "Mon\, 14 Jan 2008 18\:33\:52 -0600 \(CST\)") Message-ID: <86sl0xibpz.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can FreeBSD benefit from MacOS X ZFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:37:22 -0000 Wes Morgan writes: > As the subject says... Can FreeBSD benefit from the macos port of zfs? > I know this is a VERY new announcement, but not knowing much about > macos x in general I'm wondering how much it might help our tree, with > respect to both the memory and 32-bit issues. Just throwing it out > there for discussion, if anyone has any knowledge of both. Did you miss the part where Apple no longer sell 32-bit computers? DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 23:45:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424C716A418 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:45:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from morganw@chemikals.org) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3EA613C45D for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:45:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from morganw@chemikals.org) Received: from shop.chemikals.org ([75.182.2.94]) by cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20080116234506.EQET9785.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@shop.chemikals.org>; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:45:06 +0000 Received: from volatile.chemikals.org (root@r74-193-170-223.bssrcmta01.bscyla.by.dh.suddenlink.net [74.193.170.223] (may be forged)) by shop.chemikals.org (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m0GNiP1g048774; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:44:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from morganw@chemikals.org) Received: from localhost (morganw@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by volatile.chemikals.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m0GNiO9E041827; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:44:24 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from morganw@chemikals.org) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:44:24 -0600 (CST) From: Wes Morgan To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <86sl0xibpz.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <86sl0xibpz.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Alpine 1.00 (BSF 882 2007-12-20) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="2180312168-1360128517-1200527065=:17832" Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can FreeBSD benefit from MacOS X ZFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:45:12 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --2180312168-1360128517-1200527065=:17832 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Wes Morgan writes: >> As the subject says... Can FreeBSD benefit from the macos port of zfs? >> I know this is a VERY new announcement, but not knowing much about >> macos x in general I'm wondering how much it might help our tree, with >> respect to both the memory and 32-bit issues. Just throwing it out >> there for discussion, if anyone has any knowledge of both. > > Did you miss the part where Apple no longer sell 32-bit computers? Possibly! I looked briefly but didn't see anything explicitly saying that later versions of OS X were 64-bit only. But, that's only half of the question. There are still memory issues on amd64. --2180312168-1360128517-1200527065=:17832-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 23:55:04 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F42B16A417 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:55:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpa.nu) Received: from omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com (omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com [144.140.93.195]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B7513C44B for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:55:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpa.nu) Received: from oaamta02sl.mx.bigpond.com ([124.188.162.219]) by omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20080116235502.CKKJ19939.omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com@oaamta02sl.mx.bigpond.com> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:55:02 +0000 Received: from areilly.bpa.nu ([124.188.162.219]) by oaamta02sl.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20080116235458.CZHB27385.oaamta02sl.mx.bigpond.com@areilly.bpa.nu> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:54:58 +0000 Received: (qmail 64325 invoked by uid 501); 16 Jan 2008 23:54:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:54:43 +1100 From: Andrew Reilly To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-ID: <20080116235443.GB32396@duncan.reilly.home> References: <86sl0xibpz.fsf@ds4.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <86sl0xibpz.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can FreeBSD benefit from MacOS X ZFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:55:04 -0000 On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 12:37:12AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Did you miss the part where Apple no longer sell 32-bit computers? Well, there's the iPod-Touch and iPhone, which is an ARM running OS-X (supposedly). Of course, ZFS isn't an issue there... I think that one can still buy OS upgrades for 32-bit PowerPC Macs, too, but perhaps they don't have working ZFS either. Cheeers, -- Andrew From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 00:09:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7557B16A417 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:09:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick@kiwi-computer.com) Received: from kiwi-computer.com (keira.kiwi-computer.com [63.224.10.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1465F13C4F4 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:09:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick@kiwi-computer.com) Received: (qmail 54953 invoked by uid 2001); 17 Jan 2008 00:09:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:09:42 -0600 From: "Rick C. Petty" To: Jeffrey Hutzelman Message-ID: <20080117000942.GA54906@keira.kiwi-computer.com> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, Robert Watson , matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, "Jason C. Wells" , openafs-devel@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: rick-freebsd@kiwi-computer.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:09:44 -0000 On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 01:48:52PM -0500, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > --On Monday, January 14, 2008 02:23:47 PM +0000 Robert Watson > wrote: > > >I'd like very much to get at least the kernel parts of an AFS client into > >the base system. > That may well be realistic for arla, though I believe there was a period > for a while where the kernel/arlad interface was evolving to support > features like chunking. I pay only superficial attention to arla-drinkers, > so I don't know what the status of any of that is; for that, you'd have to > ask someone who is actively involved in arla development (I believe there > are some such people on this list). > > It is unlikely ever to happen for OpenAFS, in which virtually all of the > cache manager code is in-kernel and most of it is cross-platform. Trying > to pull the OpenAFS cache manager into the FreeBSD kernel would be > equivalent to forking OpenAFS; what you'd get would work and would keep up > with FreeBSD, but it would be unlikely to keep up with OpenAFS. > > The "let's just slurp everything into the main distribution so we don't > have to worry about stable interfaces" approach is really poor. It > encourages bad engineering practice among people maintaining the main > distribution, discourages innovation and extension by others, and generally > doesn't scale. It's far better to either attempt to maintain stable > external interfaces to the VFS and VM subsystems, or else admit that you > don't have the resources to do so given the relatively small number of > external users, in which case you almost certainly also don't have the > resources to keep on top of updates to something like OpenAFS. > > In the long run, I'm guessing that the OpenAFS cache manager evolves more > quickly than FreeBSD's VFS interface, which makes pulling the CM into the > kernel tree a losing battle. If you disagree, by all means fork that part > of AFS (or get someone else to do so) and see what happens (AFS's > user/kernel and RPC interfaces are both fairly stable, so forking just the > kernel parts should be mostly feasible). > > -- Jeff > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- -- Rick C. Petty From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 00:18:08 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FEBB16A41B for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:18:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick@kiwi-computer.com) Received: from kiwi-computer.com (keira.kiwi-computer.com [63.224.10.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2084213C459 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:18:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick@kiwi-computer.com) Received: (qmail 55027 invoked by uid 2001); 17 Jan 2008 00:18:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:18:07 -0600 From: "Rick C. Petty" To: Jeffrey Hutzelman Message-ID: <20080117001807.GB54906@keira.kiwi-computer.com> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, Robert Watson , matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, "Jason C. Wells" , openafs-devel@openafs.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: rick-freebsd@kiwi-computer.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:18:08 -0000 *** Please ignore my previous unedited response *** > --On Monday, January 14, 2008 02:23:47 PM +0000 Robert Watson > wrote: > > >I'd like very much to get at least the kernel parts of an AFS client into > >the base system. I'm not sure how compatible the AFS client is with FreeBSD VFS. I looked into doing this at one time, but getting Arla to work was a much shorter path. I certainly would welcome any effort; it would give admins a choice between AFS clients. I believe the problem in the past with AFS clients has been the lack of developer time committed to maintaining the clients in the long term. Certainly it doesn't help to have major VFS rework so often as FreeBSD has had... I submitted numerous patches to Arla just to get it to compile on FreeBSD 6.x, and now we're about to release 7.0 and Arla just recently works on 6. It would also help if there was documentation on how to migrate code away from deprecated VFS calls. IIRC, the 5.x/6.0 VFS changes broke a lot of things and yet I still can't find any documentation aside from reading the diffs and guesswork. -- Rick C. Petty From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 16 23:48:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D36B16A417; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:48:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhutz@cmu.edu) Received: from minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu (MINBAR.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.185.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C833E13C467; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhutz@cmu.edu) Received: from minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu id aa12622; 16 Jan 2008 16:47 EST Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:47:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jeffrey Hutzelman X-X-Sender: To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: <20080116203521.K15541@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:37:36 +0000 Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.org, "Jason C. Wells" , openafs-devel@openafs.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:48:54 -0000 On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Robert Watson wrote: > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > > > The "let's just slurp everything into the main distribution so we don't have > > to worry about stable interfaces" approach is really poor. It encourages > > bad engineering practice among people maintaining the main distribution, > > discourages innovation and extension by others, and generally doesn't scale. > > It's far better to either attempt to maintain stable external interfaces to > > the VFS and VM subsystems, or else admit that you don't have the resources > > to do so given the relatively small number of external users, in which case > > you almost certainly also don't have the resources to keep on top of updates > > to something like OpenAFS. > > Right now we maintain a relatively stable VM/VFS KPI withing a major release > (i.e, FreeBSD 6.0 -> 6.1 -> 6.2 -> 6.3), but see fairly significant changes > between major releases (5.x -> 6.x -> 7.x, etc). I expect to see further > changes in VFS for 8.x (and some of the locking-related ones have already > started going in). Yup; that's a reasonable process. > The historic problem for Arla has been that instead of tracking these VFS > changes as they are made, they had to catch up every once in a while. Normally > that "every once in a while" has been at the point where a FreeBSD branch is > coming to the end of support rather than when it is new and shiny. Yes, that's a problem you're likely to run into unless you have a community of developers who are interested in keeping current versions working for their own use. For example, we tend to have relatively little trouble getting people to spend time making OpenAFS work on Linux or Solaris (sometimes we have trouble _getting_ it to work, but that's a different story). > In the case of > Arla, there's a quite logical path: if we import the nnpfs kernel module (but > not cache manager), then it will track FreeBSD development and almost > certainly work with little or no trouble on new major releases, as sweeps to > various KPIs will happen "for free". Yes. In fact, I think NetBSD has already done that. > So let's turn the question around: to get the OpenAFS client up and running on > FreeBSD, do you have any technical requirements not yet met by FreeBSD I don't think we know the answer to that... > , or is > it really about finding someone willing to spend some time doing the bulk of > the technical work and track bugs for a while? because this _is_ a significant part of the problem. So for starters, I think we're looking for someone who has some familiarity with OpenAFS and/or with FreeBSD's VFS layer, or thinks they can fake it, and who has cycles they're interested in spending on this. I'm sure such a person would be welcome on the openafs-devel list. -- Jeff From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 02:21:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 653DE16A417 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:21:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpa.nu) Received: from qsrv01sl.mx.bigpond.com (qsrv01sl.mx.bigpond.com [144.140.92.181]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05EF213C45A for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:21:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpa.nu) Received: from oaamta08sl.mx.bigpond.com ([124.188.162.219]) by omta03sl.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20080116234422.CKDI18906.omta03sl.mx.bigpond.com@oaamta08sl.mx.bigpond.com> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:44:22 +0000 Received: from areilly.bpa.nu ([124.188.162.219]) by oaamta08sl.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20080116234422.DGEC11115.oaamta08sl.mx.bigpond.com@areilly.bpa.nu> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:44:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 85471 invoked by uid 501); 16 Jan 2008 23:44:18 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:44:18 +1100 From: Andrew Reilly To: Ivan Voras Message-ID: <20080116234418.GA32396@duncan.reilly.home> References: <6933400d0801152152o2b692cabl2dc816ac57ae9396@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intermezzo FS on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:21:27 -0000 On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 11:23:22AM +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: > I've did some reading about Intermezzo and one of the things about it is > that it's described as "working on top of a journaled file system". By > its specification it seems it doesn't actually need a journal but a > "file system operations stream". There's no general way of generating > these records (AFAIK there is in DragonflyBSD) but maybe it would be > enough to hook up like a nullfs mount. I've just googled it, and it sounds a lot like a really good idea. The "but" is that it doesn't seem to have been touched since 2002. Is it still alive and in use? Surely it has needed changes since then, even if only to keep up with Linux kernel development. Cheers, -- Andrew From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 08:11:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D294116A41A for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:11:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86E913C469 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:11:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445A9470E9; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:11:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:11:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Rune In-Reply-To: <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jan Harkes , jcw@highperformance.net Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:11:35 -0000 On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Rune wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, Jason C. Wells wrote: >>> Sorry for the spam and cross posts. It seems like the interest in OpenAFS >>> on FreeBSD is building. I hope that this message will put the right >>> people in touch with each other and that maybe a concerted effort to port >>> OpenAFS to FreeBSD will arise. > > I want to hopefully make right people aware that there is an interest in > Coda on FreeBSD. > > Wonder who has the influence to make Coda a "first-class citizen" of > FreeBSD? Jan Harkes submitted a number of bug fixes for the FreeBSD Coda component to us in the past six months, which I've committed to CVS. It may be that more fixes are required to make Coda stable and supportable. I've added Jan to the CC, perhaps he can opine on what further work is required, and if I missed any further patches he sent. As with Arla, most of the logic for Coda is in userspace, so keeping Coda generaly working is generally low-overhead--as long as there are people running it against the CVS HEAD, where most of the VFS work takes place. Certainly as long as someone is doing the work to keep it running over time, we're happy to get the patches in the tree, and the changes he sent were relatively small to address, as you say, gradual evoution in VFS. Part of the problem was that once Coda stops working, getting it working again requires more knowledge of Coda than most FreeBSD developers have, and for some period (perhaps still), Coda worked poorly from behind a NAT, a common property of many development environments. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 08:15:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0210616A468 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:15:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC3B513C46E for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:15:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCB0472DF; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:15:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:15:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <86sl0xibpz.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: <20080117081214.B51764@fledge.watson.org> References: <86sl0xibpz.fsf@ds4.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="621616949-630750762-1200557715=:51764" Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can FreeBSD benefit from MacOS X ZFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:15:16 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --621616949-630750762-1200557715=:51764 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > Wes Morgan writes: > >> As the subject says... Can FreeBSD benefit from the macos port of zfs? I= =20 >> know this is a VERY new announcement, but not knowing much about macos x= in=20 >> general I'm wondering how much it might help our tree, with respect to b= oth=20 >> the memory and 32-bit issues. Just throwing it out there for discussion,= if=20 >> anyone has any knowledge of both. > > Did you miss the part where Apple no longer sell 32-bit computers? Actually, the first generation MacBook/MacBook Pro's donly have 64-bit=20 support, and both the kernel and user address spaces are 32-bit on those=20 systems. They did, however, have PAE to support larger physical memories.= =20 More recent Intel Macs have 64-bit address support for userspace but 32-bit= =20 kernels. Unlike with FreeBSD, the Mac OS X kernel runs in its own dedicate= d=20 32-bit address space rather than splitting a single 32-bit address space wi= th=20 userspace. This leads to greater system call overhead (system calls requir= e a=20 full context switch) but much more kernel address space. My impression has= =20 been that Apple has also had challenges dealing with ZFS's run-away resourc= e=20 use, however... Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge --621616949-630750762-1200557715=:51764-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 10:25:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E711316A41B for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3CA713C44B for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8A12088; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:25:32 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.2/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1B1207E; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:25:32 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4C2628449D; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:25:32 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Wes Morgan References: <86sl0xibpz.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:25:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Wes Morgan's message of "Wed\, 16 Jan 2008 17\:44\:24 -0600 \(CST\)") Message-ID: <86fxwwn3z7.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can FreeBSD benefit from MacOS X ZFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:25:41 -0000 Wes Morgan writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: > > Did you miss the part where Apple no longer sell 32-bit computers? > Possibly! I looked briefly but didn't see anything explicitly saying > that later versions of OS X were 64-bit only. But, that's only half of > the question. There are still memory issues on amd64. Later versions of OS X support both 32-bit and 64-bit Intel and PowerPC machines, but they're starting to set lower bounds on what it will run on - it won't install on my 2003 model G4 eMac, for instance. I expect that by the time OS X gets write support for ZFS, PowerPC will be history. I also suspect that Apple see ZFS as a mostly server-side feature, which reduces the importance of 32-bit machines even further. (Going off on a tangent, I was very amused by the self-styled pundits' amazement at the Intel Mac announcement. "Gee, we never saw that one coming!" I mean, Darwin had only had i386 and "fat binary" support for five years at that point.) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 16:35:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2B316A418 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:35:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.94.206]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D87613C468 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:35:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca (muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.91.102]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m0HGZofS012317; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:35:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (rmacklem@localhost) by muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id m0HGcwT22995; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:38:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca: rmacklem owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:38:58 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Macklem X-X-Sender: rmacklem@muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: <20080116203521.K15541@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <20080116203521.K15541@fledge.watson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 131.104.94.206 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:53:47 +0000 Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@freebsd.org, "Jason C. Wells" , openafs-devel@openafs.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: VFS KPI was Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:35:59 -0000 On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Robert Watson wrote: [good stuff snipped] > > Right now we maintain a relatively stable VM/VFS KPI withing a major release > (i.e, FreeBSD 6.0 -> 6.1 -> 6.2 -> 6.3), but see fairly significant changes > between major releases (5.x -> 6.x -> 7.x, etc). I expect to see further > changes in VFS for 8.x (and some of the locking-related ones have already > started going in). > This is loosely related to both the OpenAFS thread and the Mac OS X ZFS port thread, so I thought I'd ask... Has anyone considered trying to bring the FreeBSD VFS KPI (and others, for that matter) closed to the Darwin/Mac OS X ones? The Apple folks made quite dramatic changes to their VFS when going from Panther (very FreeBSD like) to Tiger, but seemed to have stabilized, at least for Leopard. It just seems that using the Mac OS X KPIs might leverage some work being done on both sides? (I don't know if there is an OpenAFS port to Mac OS X or interest in one, but I would think there would be a use for one, if it existed?) Although I'm far from an expert on the Mac OS X VFS (when I ported to it, I just cribbed the code and it worked:-), it seems that they pretty well got rid of the concept of a vnode-lock. If the underlying file system isn't SMP safe, it can put a lock on the subsystem at the VFS call. (I think it optionally does a global lock or a uses an smp lock in the vnode, but don't quote me on this. My code currently runs with the thread-safe flag false in the vfs_conf structure entry, which enables the automagic locking.) Just a thought, rick From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 17:14:08 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164F916A41A for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:14:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C13B413C455 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:14:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from phobos.samsco.home (phobos.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m0HHE4WT001465; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:14:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <478F8CDC.8080503@samsco.org> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:14:04 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071128 SeaMonkey/1.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Macklem References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <20080116203521.K15541@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]); Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:14:04 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.4 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-afs@freebsd.org, rra@stanford.edu Subject: Re: VFS KPI was Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:14:08 -0000 Rick Macklem wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Robert Watson wrote: > > [good stuff snipped] >> >> Right now we maintain a relatively stable VM/VFS KPI withing a major >> release (i.e, FreeBSD 6.0 -> 6.1 -> 6.2 -> 6.3), but see fairly >> significant changes between major releases (5.x -> 6.x -> 7.x, etc). >> I expect to see further changes in VFS for 8.x (and some of the >> locking-related ones have already started going in). >> > This is loosely related to both the OpenAFS thread and the Mac OS X ZFS > port thread, so I thought I'd ask... > > Has anyone considered trying to bring the FreeBSD VFS KPI (and others, for > that matter) closed to the Darwin/Mac OS X ones? The Apple folks made > quite dramatic changes to their VFS when going from Panther (very FreeBSD > like) to Tiger, but seemed to have stabilized, at least for Leopard. It > just seems that using the Mac OS X KPIs might leverage some work being > done on both sides? (I don't know if there is an OpenAFS port to Mac OS X > or interest in one, but I would think there would be a use for one, if it > existed?) > > Although I'm far from an expert on the Mac OS X VFS (when I ported to it, > I just cribbed the code and it worked:-), it seems that they pretty well > got rid of the concept of a vnode-lock. If the underlying file system > isn't SMP safe, it can put a lock on the subsystem at the VFS call. > (I think it optionally does a global lock or a uses an smp lock in the > vnode, but don't quote me on this. My code currently runs with the > thread-safe flag false in the vfs_conf structure entry, which enables > the automagic locking.) > Both Solaris and OSX seem to have found the path out of the VFS locking woods, and it would indeed be really nice if FreeBSD could follow suit. You're not the first to suggest the vnode locking move out of VFS and into the filesystems. I think that the work it would take to adapt the existing filesystems to this design would be far less than the ongoing work by everyone to fight the old design (both in FreeBSD proper and in companies that do their own custom filesystems in FreeBSD), but it does come at a cost of making things like nullfs much harder, if not nearly impossible. I wish I had time to work on something like this, but I encourage others to look into it and experiment. Scott From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 17:22:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4F816A417; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:22:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from moe.cs.uoguelph.ca (moe.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.94.198]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4839E13C46B; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:22:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca (muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.91.102]) by moe.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m0HHMGu9012974; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:22:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (rmacklem@localhost) by muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id m0HHPPf00119; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:25:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca: rmacklem owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:25:25 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Macklem X-X-Sender: rmacklem@muncher.cs.uoguelph.ca To: Scott Long In-Reply-To: <478F8BF2.4070700@samsco.org> Message-ID: References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <20080116203521.K15541@fledge.watson.org> <478F8BF2.4070700@samsco.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.63 on 131.104.94.198 Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-afs@freebsd.org, openafs-devel@openafs.org, port-freebsd@openafs.org Subject: Re: VFS KPI was Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:22:21 -0000 On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Scott Long wrote: > > Both Solaris and OSX seem to have found the path out of the VFS locking > woods, and it would indeed be really nice if FreeBSD could follow suit. Yes, I didn't mention Solaris (because I've never looked at it), but being able to easily port file system code from OpenSolaris sounds like it might be a big win. ZFS is an obvious example, but there is also stuff like pNFS in the pipe that would be nice. (I'm going to try and get my nfsv4 code into FreeBSD, but it will only be nfsv4.0 and I have no urge to do 4.1/pNFS.) And others mentioned that there is quite a bit of momentum w.r.t. OpenAFS in Solaris. rick From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 17:10:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E22B16A419; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:10:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA64913C4DD; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:10:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from phobos.samsco.home (phobos.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m0HHAAAv001430; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:10:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <478F8BF2.4070700@samsco.org> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:10:10 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071128 SeaMonkey/1.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Macklem References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <20080116203521.K15541@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]); Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:10:10 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.4 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on pooker.samsco.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:39:26 +0000 Cc: rra@stanford.edu, port-freebsd@openafs.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Robert Watson , matt@linuxbox.com, freebsd-afs@freebsd.org, "Jason C. Wells" , openafs-devel@openafs.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: VFS KPI was Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:10:19 -0000 Rick Macklem wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Robert Watson wrote: > > [good stuff snipped] >> >> Right now we maintain a relatively stable VM/VFS KPI withing a major >> release (i.e, FreeBSD 6.0 -> 6.1 -> 6.2 -> 6.3), but see fairly >> significant changes between major releases (5.x -> 6.x -> 7.x, etc). >> I expect to see further changes in VFS for 8.x (and some of the >> locking-related ones have already started going in). >> > This is loosely related to both the OpenAFS thread and the Mac OS X ZFS > port thread, so I thought I'd ask... > > Has anyone considered trying to bring the FreeBSD VFS KPI (and others, for > that matter) closed to the Darwin/Mac OS X ones? The Apple folks made > quite dramatic changes to their VFS when going from Panther (very FreeBSD > like) to Tiger, but seemed to have stabilized, at least for Leopard. It > just seems that using the Mac OS X KPIs might leverage some work being > done on both sides? (I don't know if there is an OpenAFS port to Mac OS X > or interest in one, but I would think there would be a use for one, if it > existed?) > > Although I'm far from an expert on the Mac OS X VFS (when I ported to it, > I just cribbed the code and it worked:-), it seems that they pretty well > got rid of the concept of a vnode-lock. If the underlying file system > isn't SMP safe, it can put a lock on the subsystem at the VFS call. > (I think it optionally does a global lock or a uses an smp lock in the > vnode, but don't quote me on this. My code currently runs with the > thread-safe flag false in the vfs_conf structure entry, which enables > the automagic locking.) > Both Solaris and OSX seem to have found the path out of the VFS locking woods, and it would indeed be really nice if FreeBSD could follow suit. You're not the first to suggest the vnode locking move out of VFS and into the filesystems. I think that the work it would take to adapt the existing filesystems to this design would be far less than the ongoing work by everyone to fight the old design (both in FreeBSD proper and in companies that do their own custom filesystems in FreeBSD), but it does come at a cost of making things like nullfs much harder, if not nearly impossible. I wish I had time to work on something like this, but I encourage others to look into it and experiment. Scott From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 17 17:58:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD90516A419; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:58:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943C113C46B; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:58:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from phobos.samsco.home (phobos.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m0HHw8jB001680; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:58:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <478F9730.7040204@samsco.org> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:58:08 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071128 SeaMonkey/1.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Macklem References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <876FB8E38251C27B14CCCA29@atlantis.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <20080116203521.K15541@fledge.watson.org> <478F8BF2.4070700@samsco.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]); Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:58:09 -0700 (MST) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.4 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-afs@freebsd.org, openafs-devel@openafs.org, port-freebsd@openafs.org Subject: Re: VFS KPI was Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:58:13 -0000 Rick Macklem wrote: > > > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Scott Long wrote: > >> >> Both Solaris and OSX seem to have found the path out of the VFS locking >> woods, and it would indeed be really nice if FreeBSD could follow suit. > Yes, I didn't mention Solaris (because I've never looked at it), but > being able to easily port file system code from OpenSolaris sounds like > it might be a big win. ZFS is an obvious example, but there is also > stuff like pNFS in the pipe that would be nice. (I'm going to try and > get my nfsv4 code into FreeBSD, but it will only be nfsv4.0 and I have > no urge to do 4.1/pNFS.) And others mentioned that there is quite a bit > of momentum w.r.t. OpenAFS in Solaris. > > rick > It's not just about portability, though. I know that some will argue with me on this, but the current VFS API is prohibitively difficult to use properly if you're trying to write, port, or debug a filesystem. You have to worry about interactions between vnode locks, vnode interlocks, and mount locks even before you start locking your own filesystem-private structures. Vectors like VOP_RECLAIM are a delicate and unforgiving minefield. Gaining better portability would of course be a big win, but an even bigger win would be gaining the ability of mere mortal programmers to understand and get involved in filesystems in FreeBSD. Scott From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 18 07:34:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD81116A417 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 07:34:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from u+openafsdev-sr55@chalmers.se) Received: from anubis.medic.chalmers.se (anubis.medic.chalmers.se [129.16.30.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6E113C447 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 07:34:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from u+openafsdev-sr55@chalmers.se) Received: from chalmers.se (pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se [129.16.31.249]) by anubis.medic.chalmers.se (Postfix) with SMTP id AAF53E4C6; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:34:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:34:45 +0100 From: Rune To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20080118073445.GA30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jan Harkes , jcw@highperformance.net Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 07:34:17 -0000 Hi Robert, thanks for your reply. Since my posting I have been in contact with Jan and according to him all the needed patches were indeed accepted for -current. The data on the Coda wiki is apparently unfair/obsoleted. My apologies. On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 08:11:35AM +0000, Robert Watson wrote: > > Jan Harkes submitted a number of bug fixes for the FreeBSD Coda component > to us in the past six months, which I've committed to CVS. It may be that > more fixes are required to make Coda stable and supportable. I've added As said, it should be all right. I am going to test, have set up a machine with 7.0rc1. > you say, gradual evoution in VFS. Part of the problem was that once Coda > stops working, getting it working again requires more knowledge of Coda > than most FreeBSD developers have, and for some period (perhaps still), I see. > Coda worked poorly from behind a NAT, a common property of many development > environments. Unfortunately this is still the case, especially for writing. One reading and writing client behind a reasonable NAT implementation is fine. Several "readonly" ones behind the same NAT are usable. More than the above is unfortunately not yet ready for production use. There is work under way to eliminate the underlying problem, but not near enough to hold one's breath. Best regards, Rune From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 18 10:39:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BDF516A417 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:39:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E84D13C461 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:39:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68C449711; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:39:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:39:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Rune In-Reply-To: <20080118073445.GA30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <20080118103757.F18977@fledge.watson.org> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> <20080118073445.GA30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jan Harkes , jcw@highperformance.net Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:39:29 -0000 On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Rune wrote: >> Coda worked poorly from behind a NAT, a common property of many development >> environments. > > Unfortunately this is still the case, especially for writing. > > One reading and writing client behind a reasonable NAT implementation is > fine. Several "readonly" ones behind the same NAT are usable. More than the > above is unfortunately not yet ready for production use. > > There is work under way to eliminate the underlying problem, but not near > enough to hold one's breath. Is this because the callback connection sends UDP from the server to the client before the client sends to the server on the same port, meaning it can't get through? If so, presumably we could just teach the client to send a bit of no-op UDP to the server first -- this would limit you to one client per NAT, but that's better than no clients per NAT. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 18 19:59:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E8716A418; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:59:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jaharkes@cs.cmu.edu) Received: from delft.aura.cs.cmu.edu (unknown [IPv6:2002:8002:ce58::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9697413C455; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:59:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jaharkes@cs.cmu.edu) Received: from jaharkes by delft.aura.cs.cmu.edu with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JFxMr-0002tf-Nl; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:59:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:59:09 -0500 From: Jan Harkes To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20080118195909.GE7898@cs.cmu.edu> Mail-Followup-To: Robert Watson , Rune , "Marc G. Fournier" , freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, jcw@highperformance.net References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-12-11) Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, jcw@highperformance.net, Rune Subject: Re: [OpenAFS-devel] Re: AFS ... or equivalent ... X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:59:13 -0000 On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 08:11:35AM +0000, Robert Watson wrote: > that more fixes are required to make Coda stable and supportable. I've > added Jan to the CC, perhaps he can opine on what further work is > required, and if I missed any further patches he sent. As with Arla, You got everything that was in my queue. That doesn't mean that all problems have been resolved, but I could walk through the file system and read and write files without problems. I notice all the other mails, I'll have to look at those. > for some period (perhaps still), Coda worked poorly from behind a NAT, a > common property of many development environments. It isn't so much that Coda works poorly behind a NAT, but that a lot of masquerading firewalls assume that the only UDP traffic is DNS lookups and maybe NFS. Which means that they do unexpected things when one side starts to send several packets in rapid succession to the same destination. I've seen firewalls that drop everything but the first packet until a reply comes back. Or they only allow a single "reply" packet direction after a request. Both of these flaws break our windowed data tranfers because a single ack will move the window which can result in several outgoing UDP packets. Another interesting case is firewalls that don't seem to hash on the source addr,port,destination address, port tuple, but only remember the last destination we sent to. So if we send a message to several (replicated) servers, we only receive a response from a single one (the last one we talked to). Of course we retry the request to the others, so eventually we get all answers. But it isn't really very efficient we end up waiting for the estimated RTT and send 50% more data if we have 2 replicas. Which affects the estimated RTT, making the next round even slower. A more common scenario is a too short period during which the connection/redirection is considered active. Some masquerading firewalls have a default value that may be as low as 60 seconds. This means we have to send at least one packet every 60 seconds, there could be packet loss, so possibly even more often than that, just to keep the connection alive. If our packet reaches the firewall outside of this window, it will either drop the packet, or allocate a new port so that the receiver thinks this is a connection from a different client. The client ends up having to revalidate everything in it's cache to make sure it didn't miss a callback message. Originally a connection keepalive probe only happened once every 15 minutes if we hadn't heard anything else, the default is now 150 seconds because a lot of off-the-shelf wireless routers/nat firewalls seem to have a roughly 3 minute timeout. And these issues will affect any protocol over UDP that isn't a plain stateless request-response variant, and in some cases (f.i. dropping everything but the first packet in a sequence) are broken in all cases because a packet can be dropped/lost or corrupted after passing the firewall and the firewall isn't letting the retransmissions through. But that only happens once in a blue moon, and will in most cases just show as a stalled/failed DNS lookup and people just hit 'try again'. Jan From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 18 21:06:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1B716A420; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:06:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jaharkes@cs.cmu.edu) Received: from delft.aura.cs.cmu.edu (unknown [IPv6:2002:8002:ce58::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA21613C46E; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:06:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jaharkes@cs.cmu.edu) Received: from jaharkes by delft.aura.cs.cmu.edu with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JFyPt-0005IC-GY; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:06:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:06:21 -0500 From: Jan Harkes To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20080118210621.GF7898@cs.cmu.edu> Mail-Followup-To: Robert Watson , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> <20080118073445.GA30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080118095652.GC30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080118103952.D18977@fledge.watson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080118103952.D18977@fledge.watson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-12-11) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coda on FreeBSD problem reports? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:06:22 -0000 On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 11:10:26AM +0000, Robert Watson wrote: > This is likely a VM interaction involving either an improperly managed or > unmanaged VM object for Coda vnodes. That sounds right. I haven't looked at vobjects and how they are manager, didn't even know FreeBSD had these. It sounds a lot like the i_mapping/address_space in the Linux kernel and if these are even slightly similar, we would want to share the vobject between the Coda vnode and the cache/container vnode. > loosely guess the former if cache vnodes are reused between Coda vnodes. Cache vnodes are reused, but under very specific conditions, and for other reasons we are going to switch to unlinking / recreating them. > However, sharing makes more sense in other ways, as it means there won't > be data cache coherency problems between the Coda and cache VM objects if > both are written too simultaneously (or even not simultaneously, given > that when there's little memory pressure, pages hang around for a long > time). We never write simultaneously because of the session semantics + whole file caching. When we get an open the Coda using application is blocked until we know that all data has been copied to the cache file before we hand the reference to the cache file back to the kernel. But we don't actually sync the dirty pages to disk so if the Coda vnode uses it's own vobject it would miss the few dirty pages that are still associated with the cache vnode's vobject. It is also a huge performance benefit for a lot of short lived files which are unlinked before their dirty pages have even hit the disk. So sharing these definitely seems like the cleaner solution. >> 2. Killing venus for the first time and restarting is fine, for the >> second time kill causes "panic: lockmgr: locking against >> myself". That can possibly depend on some locks not being properly >> released when Venus dies? > > Sounds likely -- presumably a lock on a vnode is not being properly > released on some path. Jan may be able to offer some more insight. I don't know, don't trust that control vnode (coda_ctlvp) but I don't know enough about it to be sure. Jan From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 18 21:23:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4FF16A417 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:23:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E6613C45D for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:23:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AAB0487D6; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:23:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:23:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jan Harkes In-Reply-To: <20080118210621.GF7898@cs.cmu.edu> Message-ID: <20080118211556.T46437@fledge.watson.org> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> <20080118073445.GA30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080118095652.GC30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080118103952.D18977@fledge.watson.org> <20080118210621.GF7898@cs.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coda on FreeBSD problem reports? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:23:41 -0000 On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Jan Harkes wrote: > On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 11:10:26AM +0000, Robert Watson wrote: >> This is likely a VM interaction involving either an improperly managed or >> unmanaged VM object for Coda vnodes. > > That sounds right. I haven't looked at vobjects and how they are manager, > didn't even know FreeBSD had these. > > It sounds a lot like the i_mapping/address_space in the Linux kernel and if > these are even slightly similar, we would want to share the vobject between > the Coda vnode and the cache/container vnode. In FreeBSD, as in Mach from which the FreeBSD VM was derived, a VM object is what holds cached pages for a file. VM objects are managed by a pager, and in the case of vnode-backed VM objects, this is the vnode pager (src/sys/vm/vnode_pager.c). When a memory mapping is created, the VM object is referenced, and whenever it needs to fill a page, the vnode pager loads the page using VOP_READ(), and when it gets bored (i.e., msync, memory pressure), it will write them back out using VOP_WRITE(). Due to the magic of a merged VM/buffer cache, it's actually the same memory as used in the buffer cache, so if you do write() on the file, it is visible to mmap() and vice versa for a write via the memory mapping. Vnodes can float around without VM objects, but they can't be mapped without one, so normally we set up a VM object on open(), and then don't GC the VM object until the vnode references hit zero and the vnode falls out of memory. >> loosely guess the former if cache vnodes are reused between Coda vnodes. > > Cache vnodes are reused, but under very specific conditions, and for other > reasons we are going to switch to unlinking / recreating them. This sounds like a generally good and safe idea. >> However, sharing makes more sense in other ways, as it means there won't be >> data cache coherency problems between the Coda and cache VM objects if both >> are written too simultaneously (or even not simultaneously, given that when >> there's little memory pressure, pages hang around for a long time). > > We never write simultaneously because of the session semantics + whole file > caching. When we get an open the Coda using application is blocked until we > know that all data has been copied to the cache file before we hand the > reference to the cache file back to the kernel. But we don't actually sync > the dirty pages to disk so if the Coda vnode uses it's own vobject it would > miss the few dirty pages that are still associated with the cache vnode's > vobject. It is also a huge performance benefit for a lot of short lived > files which are unlinked before their dirty pages have even hit the disk. > > So sharing these definitely seems like the cleaner solution. Two things to be aware of: (1) If the VM object is the one of the cache vnode, then when the page is read or written to disk, it will bypass the Coda VOP's and go directly to the cache VOP's, since the cache vnode VM object uses the cache vnode's vnode operation vector. (2) Be aware that memory mappings can persist beyond close() -- i.e., you can open() a file, mmap() it, and then close() it. This means that writes can happen "later", and since it's hitting the cache vnode operations rather than the Coda ones, you won't get an explicit notification. I've not tested it, but the attached patch may do something like what you want. I have some reservations about this approach, though, due to the above concerns. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge Index: coda_vnops.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vnops.c,v retrieving revision 1.78 diff -u -r1.78 coda_vnops.c --- coda_vnops.c 13 Jan 2008 14:44:02 -0000 1.78 +++ coda_vnops.c 17 Jan 2008 15:22:12 -0000 @@ -244,6 +244,8 @@ if (error) { printf("coda_open: VOP_OPEN on container failed %d\n", error); return (error); + } else { + (*vpp)->v_object = vp->v_object; } /* grab (above) does this when it calls newvnode unless it's in the cache*/ @@ -747,6 +749,8 @@ CODADEBUG(CODA_INACTIVE, myprintf(("in inactive, %s, vfsp %p\n", coda_f2s(&cp->c_fid), vp->v_mount));) + + vp->v_object = NULL; /* If an array has been allocated to hold the symlink, deallocate it */ if ((coda_symlink_cache) && (VALID_SYMLINK(cp))) { @@ -1552,7 +1556,7 @@ cache_purge(vp); coda_free(VTOC(vp)); vp->v_data = NULL; - vnode_destroy_vobject(vp); + vp->v_object = NULL; return (0); } From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 19 01:01:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22C616A417 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:01:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999D613C45B for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:01:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16D794970D; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:01:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:01:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jan Harkes In-Reply-To: <20080118211556.T46437@fledge.watson.org> Message-ID: <20080119005938.Q53920@fledge.watson.org> References: <18CC5A4A2AC36D7FF57615EE@ganymede.hub.org> <478AF6BC.8050604@highperformance.net> <20080114142124.Y55696@fledge.watson.org> <20080116085630.GA32361@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080117080359.U51764@fledge.watson.org> <20080118073445.GA30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080118095652.GC30721@pappardelle.tekno.chalmers.se> <20080118103952.D18977@fledge.watson.org> <20080118210621.GF7898@cs.cmu.edu> <20080118211556.T46437@fledge.watson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Coda on FreeBSD problem reports? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:01:05 -0000 On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Robert Watson wrote: > I've not tested it, but the attached patch may do something like what you > want. I have some reservations about this approach, though, due to the > above concerns. Well, my testbox finally rebuilt, and a casual test with an ls binary in /coda leads me to believe that exceve() now works. I've not tried any comprehensive testing of mmap(). I also saw the lockmgr panic after a second unmount, as well as an INVARIANTS report of leaked memory when I unloaded the Coda module between runs. I'll take a closer look tomorrow. Assuming you're OK with this patch as a first cut, I can commit it to FreeBSD CVS. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge > > Robert N M Watson > Computer Laboratory > University of Cambridge > > Index: coda_vnops.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vnops.c,v > retrieving revision 1.78 > diff -u -r1.78 coda_vnops.c > --- coda_vnops.c 13 Jan 2008 14:44:02 -0000 1.78 > +++ coda_vnops.c 17 Jan 2008 15:22:12 -0000 > @@ -244,6 +244,8 @@ > if (error) { > printf("coda_open: VOP_OPEN on container failed %d\n", error); > return (error); > + } else { > + (*vpp)->v_object = vp->v_object; > } > /* grab (above) does this when it calls newvnode unless it's in the cache*/ > > @@ -747,6 +749,8 @@ > > CODADEBUG(CODA_INACTIVE, myprintf(("in inactive, %s, vfsp %p\n", > coda_f2s(&cp->c_fid), vp->v_mount));) > + > + vp->v_object = NULL; > > /* If an array has been allocated to hold the symlink, deallocate it */ > if ((coda_symlink_cache) && (VALID_SYMLINK(cp))) { > @@ -1552,7 +1556,7 @@ > cache_purge(vp); > coda_free(VTOC(vp)); > vp->v_data = NULL; > - vnode_destroy_vobject(vp); > + vp->v_object = NULL; > return (0); > } > > From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 19 15:44:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3225516A419; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:44:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from weak.local (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B43B13C46B; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:44:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <47921AE2.1060004@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:44:34 +0100 From: Kris Kennaway User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway References: <20080118120140.2a8170a0@dev> <47921931.9050606@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <47921931.9050606@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Jakub Siroky Subject: infinite loop when copying to ext2fs X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:44:43 -0000 Kris Kennaway wrote: > Jakub Siroky wrote: >> I have two large ext2fs partitions (368 and 313GB) to hold data shared >> between several OSes. While there were no problems on 6-STABLE branch >> I was quite disappointed after upgrade to 7-STABLE. Whenever I >> copy/write to ext2fs partition the system freezes totally without >> crashdump. So I set debugging settings to kernel config >> (DEBUG,WITNESS,..) and in console I reproduced error situation ending >> with full screen of unstoppable running text with lot of memory >> addresses and a few recognisable words: 'new block bit set for ext >> already' - again with no crashdump. Then I have formatted 1GB >> partition with ext2fs and the problem on this small partition appears >> only sometimes. > > OK, I am able to reproduce this. > > Kris > Is anyone able to look at this? I could not spot a candidate change that has not been merged to 6.x. Kris From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 19 17:14:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F2516A417 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:14:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA39413C448 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:14:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3CF47588; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:56:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:56:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Rune , Jan Harkes Message-ID: <20080119165056.E3375@fledge.watson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Various FreeBSD Coda fixes X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:14:17 -0000 Rune, Jan, Well, I got very slightly carried away, and I believe I've fixed a number of the problems being reported: - I applied the nullfs-style VM object sharing to Coda, which seems to get binaries working, although as I mentioned I do have some reservations. - I hooked up a null printer for vop_print rather than panic so locking problems can be debugged more easily. - I fixed several vnode locking related problems, including failing to acquire the vnode lock before returning from mkdir, lock recursion leading to a panic on unmount, etc. - I fixed statfs so it displays something a bit more sensible. I'm not sure if these can be MFC'd before 7.0, but will ask re@ if we can fit them in. Certainly, it's better than panicking, which is a relatively likely scenario with what's currently in RELENG_7. The only remaining problem I'm aware of is that the Coda module leaks memory when unloaded, presumably because the unload routine doesn't actually do any cleanup. I've not investigated further as yet, but this is somewhat more edge case than the other problems. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:27:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Robert Watson To: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c rwatson 2008-01-19 13:27:14 UTC FreeBSD src repository Modified files: sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c Log: Borrow the VM object associated with an underlying cache vnode with the Coda vnode derived from it, in the style of nullfs. This allows files in the Coda file system to be memory-mapped, such as with execve(2) or mmap(2). MFC after: 3 days Reported by: Rune Revision Changes Path 1.79 +5 -1 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vnops.c ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:29:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Robert Watson To: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c rwatson 2008-01-19 13:29:14 UTC FreeBSD src repository Modified files: sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c Log: Lock the new directory vnode returned by coda_mkdir(), as this is required by FreeBSD's vnode locking protocol. MFC after: 3 days Revision Changes Path 1.80 +5 -1 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vnops.c ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:41:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Robert Watson To: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c rwatson 2008-01-19 13:41:56 UTC FreeBSD src repository Modified files: sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c Log: Use VOP_NULL rather than VOP_PANIC for Coda's vop_print routine, so as to avoid panicking in DDB show lockedvnods. MFC after: 3 days Revision Changes Path 1.81 +1 -1 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vnops.c ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:32:44 +0000 (UTC) From: Robert Watson To: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda cnode.h coda_namecache.h coda_psdev.c coda_vfsops.c rwatson 2008-01-19 14:32:44 UTC FreeBSD src repository Modified files: sys/fs/coda cnode.h coda_namecache.h coda_psdev.c coda_vfsops.c Log: Don't declare functions as extern. Move all extern variable definitions to associated .h files, move some extern variable definitions between include files to place them more appropriately. MFC after: 3 days Revision Changes Path 1.22 +0 -6 src/sys/fs/coda/cnode.h 1.12 +22 -15 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_namecache.h 1.40 +0 -3 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_psdev.c 1.70 +0 -3 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vfsops.c ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:39:10 +0000 (UTC) From: Robert Watson To: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c rwatson 2008-01-19 15:39:10 UTC FreeBSD src repository Modified files: sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c Log: Don't acquire an additional vnode reference to a vnode when it is opened and then release it when it is closed: we rely on the caller to keep the vnode around with a valid reference. This avoids vrele() destroying the vnode vop_close() is being called from during a call to vop_close(), and a crash due to lockmgr recursing the vnode lock when a Coda unmount occurs. MFC after: 3 days Revision Changes Path 1.82 +0 -5 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vnops.c ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:40:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Robert Watson To: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda coda_vfsops.c rwatson 2008-01-19 15:40:46 UTC FreeBSD src repository Modified files: sys/fs/coda coda_vfsops.c Log: Zero mi_rotovp and coda_ctlvp immediately after calling vrele() on the vnodes during coda_unmount() in order to detect errant use of them after the vnode references may no longer be valid. No need to clear the VV_ROOT flag on mi_rootvp flag (especially after the vnode reference is no longer valid) as this isn't done on other file systems. MFC after: 3 days Revision Changes Path 1.71 +2 -3 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vfsops.c ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:39:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Robert Watson To: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda coda_vfsops.c rwatson 2008-01-19 16:39:14 UTC FreeBSD src repository Modified files: sys/fs/coda coda_vfsops.c Log: Rework coda_statfs(): no longer need to zero the statfs structure or fill out all fields, just fill out the ones the file system knows about. Among other things, this causes the outpuf of "mount" and "df" to make quite a bit more sense as /dev/cfs0 is specified as the mountfrom name. MFC after: 3 days Revision Changes Path 1.72 +1 -6 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vfsops.c From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 19 17:14:50 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: fs@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35C816A41A for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:14:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49B113C45A for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:14:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4156C46C6F; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:14:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:14:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Rune , Jan Harkes Message-ID: <20080119171429.T3375@fledge.watson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:14:50 -0000 And just when you think you're done, one more... Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:12:45 +0000 (UTC) From: Robert Watson To: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c rwatson 2008-01-19 17:12:45 UTC FreeBSD src repository Modified files: sys/fs/coda coda_vnops.c Log: Improve default vnode operation handling for Coda: - Don't specify vnode operations for mknod, lease, and advlock--let them fall through to vop_default. - Implement vop_default with &default_vnodeops, rather than with VOP_PANIC, so that unimplemented vnode operations are handled in more sensible ways than panicking, such as EOPNOTSUPP on ACL queries generated by bsdtar, or mknod. MFC after: 3 days Revision Changes Path 1.83 +1 -4 src/sys/fs/coda/coda_vnops.c From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 19 17:54:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0088516A41A; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:54:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from maxim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1CA913C4EC; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:54:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from maxim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (maxim@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m0JHscs6038799; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:54:38 GMT (envelope-from maxim@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from maxim@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.2/8.14.1/Submit) id m0JHscZr038795; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:54:38 GMT (envelope-from maxim) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:54:38 GMT Message-Id: <200801191754.m0JHscZr038795@freefall.freebsd.org> To: ighighi@gmail.com, maxim@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org From: maxim@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: kern/114856: [ntfs] [patch] Bug in NTFS allows bogus file modes. X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:54:39 -0000 Synopsis: [ntfs] [patch] Bug in NTFS allows bogus file modes. State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: maxim State-Changed-When: Sat Jan 19 17:54:16 UTC 2008 State-Changed-Why: Merged to RELENG_6 and RELENG_7. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=114856 From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 19 21:44:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67AA16A417 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:44:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bkoenig@alpha-tierchen.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0F713C474 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:44:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bkoenig@alpha-tierchen.de) Received: from webmail.alpha-tierchen.de (port-212-202-40-215.dynamic.qsc.de [212.202.40.215]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6F7C7E52; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:17:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from 192.168.1.2 (SquirrelMail authenticated user bkoenig) by webmail.alpha-tierchen.de with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:16:58 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <58668.192.168.1.2.1200777418.squirrel@webmail.alpha-tierchen.de> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:16:58 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn_K=F6nig?= To: "Onkar" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intermezzo FS on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:44:14 -0000 Hello, InterMezzo FS appears to be dead. Websites are not available and the last update happened six or seven years ago. It seems like that Peter Braam - the author of InterMezzo FS - spends all his time on developing CFS, http://www.clusterfs.com/ Regards Björn