From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 01:14:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC2A106564A for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:14:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mateev@cns-consulting.org) Received: from smtp-auth.serv.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE (sanode12eth0.rz.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE [131.173.17.152]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153068FC12 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:14:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mateev@cns-consulting.org) Received: from g227191184.adsl.alicedsl.de (g227191184.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.227.191.184]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-auth.serv.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m5T1EWUe031781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:14:33 +0200 From: Ivaylo Mateev Organization: CNS Consulting To: hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:13:21 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200806290313.21720.mateev@cns-consulting.org> X-PMX-Version: 5.4.0.320885, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.2.313940, Antispam-Data: 2008.6.28.234911 (Univ. Osnabrueck) X-PMX-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report=SUBJ_1WORD 0.1, BODY_SIZE_1200_1299 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, __CD 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __USER_AGENT 0 X-PMX-Spam-Level: IIIIIII Cc: Subject: Securelevels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:14:35 -0000 Hi, I think I found a bug. [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ sudo sysctl kern.securelevel kern.securelevel: 2 [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ kgdb kgdb: /dev/mem: Permission denied [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ sudo kgdb [GDB will not be able to debug user-mode threads: /usr/lib/libthread_db.so: Undefined symbol "ps_pglobal_lookup"] GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] I am running in securelevel 2. That means nithing can have direct access to /dev/mem, acording to man security: 1 Secure mode - the system immutable and system append-only flags may not be turned off; disks for mounted file systems, /dev/mem and /dev/kmem may not be opened for writing; /dev/io (if your platform has it) may not be opened at all; kernel modules (see kld(4)) may not be loaded or unloaded. 2 Highly secure mode - same as secure mode, plus disks may not be opened for writing (except by mount(2)) whether mounted or not. This level precludes tampering with file systems by unmounting them, but also inhibits running newfs(8) while the system is multi- user. So is this a bug or I am just to stupid? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 03:06:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3B41065676 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:06:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.154]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5688FC13 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:06:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so633847fgb.35 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:06:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=AZbNdhuyGJ5BSshGRuFYW7Pz4XDs3gPho4FCDRda/g8=; b=Tt6Tp3Ed+xK0HlFfPr5jwJXZErebo1TSS+wRIOhuicYCZOcUHpJVVd7GXFqA21Q3EV 2r6mpYP3Tzm1d7i9KB3M6igH4CGsybqpxWQk8behFMS/+rAdcuw9VvEsYXWgIETUiA1W vgVDV2tdGvk2Q7DEcg7uARHKtJAzcZ54JNdJA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=fSyXVElT8RpIjw7UIX9fSIbypcSPtGQZtBRX3qM9rv/O8+x60Ic/kv7YwXZsRhopZP S6rX+xX0cArD0NCb6+d1cpquyLZYn9fe2IkzMwgNebecR/B3SJfIJ5lplLztj7LMsBAj 70M6SRqSDojilw+N6o6+BJjwERwuCwrUNGFl8= Received: by 10.86.80.17 with SMTP id d17mr4230628fgb.47.1214708777931; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.51.1 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0806282006i215be603m5ec90709c2921037@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:06:17 -0700 From: "Garrett Cooper" To: "Ivaylo Mateev" In-Reply-To: <200806290313.21720.mateev@cns-consulting.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200806290313.21720.mateev@cns-consulting.org> Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Securelevels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:06:19 -0000 On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Ivaylo Mateev wrote: > Hi, > > I think I found a bug. > > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ sudo sysctl kern.securelevel > kern.securelevel: 2 > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ kgdb > kgdb: /dev/mem: Permission denied > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ sudo kgdb > [GDB will not be able to debug user-mode threads: /usr/lib/libthread_db.so: > Undefined symbol "ps_pglobal_lookup"] > GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] > > I am running in securelevel 2. That means nithing can have direct access > to /dev/mem, acording to man security: > > 1 Secure mode - the system immutable and system append-only flags may > not be turned off; disks for mounted file systems, /dev/mem and > /dev/kmem may not be opened for writing; /dev/io (if your platform > has it) may not be opened at all; kernel modules (see kld(4)) may > not be loaded or unloaded. > > 2 Highly secure mode - same as secure mode, plus disks may not be > opened for writing (except by mount(2)) whether mounted or not. > This level precludes tampering with file systems by unmounting > them, but also inhibits running newfs(8) while the system is multi- > user. > > So is this a bug or I am just to stupid? Same thing with su? In some situations sudo doesn't operate under 100% root-credentials. -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 04:47:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A7D106564A for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8588FC0C for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dan.emsphone.com (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5T4l9f4076241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:47:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.14.3/8.14.2/Submit) id m5T4l9rg076240; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:47:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:47:09 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Ivaylo Mateev Message-ID: <20080629044709.GA76555@dan.emsphone.com> References: <200806290313.21720.mateev@cns-consulting.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200806290313.21720.mateev@cns-consulting.org> X-OS: FreeBSD 7.0-STABLE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Securelevels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 04:47:10 -0000 In the last episode (Jun 29), Ivaylo Mateev said: > I think I found a bug. > > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ sudo sysctl kern.securelevel > kern.securelevel: 2 > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ kgdb > kgdb: /dev/mem: Permission denied > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ sudo kgdb > [GDB will not be able to debug user-mode threads: /usr/lib/libthread_db.so: > Undefined symbol "ps_pglobal_lookup"] > GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] > > I am running in securelevel 2. That means nithing can have direct access > to /dev/mem, acording to man security: > > 1 Secure mode - the system immutable and system append-only flags may > not be turned off; disks for mounted file systems, /dev/mem and > /dev/kmem may not be opened for writing; /dev/io (if your platform > has it) may not be opened at all; kernel modules (see kld(4)) may > not be loaded or unloaded. > > 2 Highly secure mode - same as secure mode, plus disks may not be > opened for writing (except by mount(2)) whether mounted or not. > This level precludes tampering with file systems by unmounting > them, but also inhibits running newfs(8) while the system is multi- > user. # truss kgdb < /dev/null |& grep /dev/mem open("/dev/mem",O_RDONLY,00) = 4 (0x4) # Read-only opens of /dev/mem are allowed. "kgdb -w" should fail, however. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 05:29:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DC4106567E for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:29:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (oldagora.rdrop.com [199.26.172.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA858FC0A for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:29:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id m5T50hWQ000633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.9/Submit) with UUCP id m5T50hrt000632; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fbsd61 by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA22211; Sat, 28 Jun 08 21:55:35 PDT Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:56:32 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: mateev@cns-consulting.org Message-Id: <48671600./haUiSgeAdIdCnzZ%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <200806290313.21720.mateev@cns-consulting.org> In-Reply-To: <200806290313.21720.mateev@cns-consulting.org> User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Securelevels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:29:35 -0000 > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ sudo sysctl kern.securelevel > kern.securelevel: 2 > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ kgdb > kgdb: /dev/mem: Permission denied > [strato@darkstar /usr/home/strato]$ sudo kgdb > [GDB will not be able to debug user-mode threads: /usr/lib/libthread_db.so: > Undefined symbol "ps_pglobal_lookup"] > GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] > > I am running in securelevel 2. That means nithing can have direct > access to /dev/mem, acording to man security: > > 1 Secure mode - ... /dev/mem and /dev/kmem may not be opened > for writing; ... ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > 2 Highly secure mode - same as secure mode, plus disks may not > be opened for writing (except by mount(2)) whether mounted > or not ... > > So is this a bug I don't think so, because kgdb does not ordinarily need to open /dev/kmem for writing. Presumably you'd get an error if you tried to patch the running kernel. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 07:18:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEEAA106567D; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:18:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from cs1.cs.huji.ac.il (cs1.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5048FC0C; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:18:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32]) by cs1.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1KCqUf-000GAV-SN; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:34:37 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.2 To: Ruslan Ermilov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:34:37 +0300 From: Danny Braniss Message-ID: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB blues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:18:41 -0000 hi, when setting WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB, make buildworld breaks with make: don't know how to make /r+d/obj/sunfire/alix/i386/r+d/7.0/src/tmp/legacy/ usr/lib/libegacy.a. Stop danny From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 07:44:57 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF64106564A; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:44:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB8B8FC12; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:44:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5T7gBsk080655; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20080629.014211.74670684.imp@bsdimp.com> To: danny@cs.huji.ac.il From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB blues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:44:57 -0000 > when setting WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB, make buildworld breaks with > make: don't know how to make /r+d/obj/sunfire/alix/i386/r+d/7.0/src/tmp/legacy/ > usr/lib/libegacy.a. Stop Only set it for installworld. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 08:45:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D557A1065679; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:45:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from cs1.cs.huji.ac.il (cs1.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F89B8FC0C; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:45:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32]) by cs1.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1KCsXM-000HzM-0x; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:45:32 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.2 To: Warner Losh In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:42:11 -0600 (MDT) . Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:45:32 +0300 From: Danny Braniss Message-ID: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB blues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:45:33 -0000 > > when setting WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB, make buildworld breaks with > > make: don't know how to make /r+d/obj/sunfire/alix/i386/r+d/7.0/src/tmp/legacy/ > > usr/lib/libegacy.a. Stop > > Only set it for installworld. > thanks, I noticed that, but was wondering if I could save some compile time, but at 13min. I shouldn't be so pedantic :-) cheers, danny From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 10:25:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDDA106567A for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:25:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ru@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.vega.ru (infra.dev.vega.ru [90.156.167.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F448FC13 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:25:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ru@freebsd.org) Received: from [87.242.97.68] (port=55535 helo=edoofus.dev.vega.ru) by mail.vega.ru with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KCtlp-0009p9-M9; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:04:33 +0000 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:04:14 +0400 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Warner Losh Message-ID: <20080629100414.GB57827@edoofus.dev.vega.ru> References: <20080629.014211.74670684.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080629.014211.74670684.imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB blues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:25:10 -0000 On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 01:42:11AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > when setting WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB, make buildworld breaks with > > make: don't know how to make /r+d/obj/sunfire/alix/i386/r+d/7.0/src/tmp/legacy/ > > usr/lib/libegacy.a. Stop > > Only set it for installworld. > *nods* -- Ruslan Ermilov ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 16:09:08 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8801065682 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:09:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) Received: from hunter.Sisis.de (hunter.sisis.de [193.31.11.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 704B78FC20 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:09:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) Received: (from mail@localhost) by hunter.Sisis.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01966; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:57:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) Received: from ppp-88-217-76-84.dynamic.mnet-online.de(88.217.76.84) by hunter.Sisis.de via smap (V2.1) id xma001888; Sun, 29 Jun 08 17:57:42 +0200 Received: (from guru@localhost) by rebelion.Sisis.de (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m5TG5S5L017319; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:05:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: rebelion.Sisis.de: guru set sender to matthias.apitz@oclc.org using -f Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:05:27 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Rui Paulo Message-ID: <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE (i386) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, james@nighthack.org, Manolis Kiagias Subject: Re: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:09:08 -0000 El día Friday, June 27, 2008 a las 08:44:47PM +0100, Rui Paulo escribió: > On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:02:03AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Hello Rui, > > > > I recompiled the kernel to have if_ath out of the kernel, but as a > > loaded module at boot: > > > > $ kldstat > > Id Refs Address Size Name > > 1 14 0xc0400000 8c7098 kernel > > 2 1 0xc0cc8000 1242c if_ath.ko > > 3 3 0xc0cdb000 46324 ath_hal.ko > > 4 2 0xc0d22000 4218 ath_rate.ko > > 5 1 0xc0d27000 14324 snd_hda.ko > > 6 2 0xc0d3c000 4a5ac sound.ko > > 7 1 0xc0d87000 6a32c acpi.ko > > 8 1 0xc4394000 22000 linux.ko > > > > I can unload if_ath, ath_hal and ath_rate which drops the interface > > ath0, but even in this case Fn+F2 has no affect at all; any idea? > > Oh, then I guess the 900 is different. > > > I've had a look into the Xandros Linux and they do it with ACPI events, > > dropping the modules and others; I could provide their script > > /etc/acpi/wlan.sh if someone wants to have a look into; > > If turning off WLAN is now done via ACPI events, then the patch I > committed to HEAD will probably help. I'll MFC it in a week, but if you > can give it a try, that would be great. Please contact me off-list if > you need assistance. Hola Rui, I've found your very usefull pages in http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee I CVS'uped the kernel to RELENG_7, built it and moved it to the eeePC; now Fn+F2 works as it should and I can even kldunload if_ath, power-off and power-on the wireless card, and after kldload if_ath the interface comes up fine again and my devd(8) hook assigns IP again; now it works as it should; will have a look into the events seen by devd(8) to make the kldunload and kldload perhaps there; thanks for your work and help; matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ «...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.» «...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.» José Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 16:24:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C3C106567F for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:24:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49428FC18 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:24:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so363296nfh.33 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:24:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:cc:subject :message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent:sender; bh=LGXkvNX3/CNY7eGYBbNhafEP4VvQtw0ag1E8D75UY2c=; b=Bf0xv9hGjHDOAZOhx3qbW7uWoDt9dfVNsRzGSjSc8vX5JPSEWpdS1RlMw+gzz5jZjl /312ExYAcpcLuJZhNV35N6Owp7QpZ2GNzGIur2eUsefeb24/tXsQ7PGs64H55nefZued 9+eMTe39CYXAVeFEEbQ4Mv5yScu8/owcQry/4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent:sender; b=m4vkzip0R1n8TB8n2zJfO8BzKveveZceG6SevlXdrx/wl3WEe7+xJEYElk1a8GG7vt j9z9+49ST9OphmmZuGGEFpuLd59WwfiMVrou/Ro8FneG3SapdOUrjbt1X/uGGLKFrl9p ngdyJj56cxylrkUpW6QuyoQiVcOKVft8HGnSk= Received: by 10.210.25.20 with SMTP id 20mr3246942eby.46.1214756653544; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phi.local ( [92.250.118.148]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f13sm1016926gvd.2.2008.06.29.09.24.08 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:22:34 +0100 From: Rui Paulo To: Matthias Apitz Message-ID: <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: Rui Paulo Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, james@nighthack.org, Manolis Kiagias Subject: Re: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:24:15 -0000 On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 06:05:27PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > Hola Rui, > > I've found your very usefull pages in http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee > > I CVS'uped the kernel to RELENG_7, built it and moved it to the eeePC; > now Fn+F2 works as it should and I can even kldunload if_ath, power-off > and power-on the wireless card, and after kldload if_ath the interface > comes up fine again and my devd(8) hook assigns IP again; now it works as > it should; will have a look into the events seen by devd(8) to make the > kldunload and kldload perhaps there; > > thanks for your work and help; Cool, no problem. -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 19:22:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2501A106564A for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:22:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.188]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BEF8FC15 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:22:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k31so1177839fkk.11 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:22:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=BxX48T10TXA7aU0b/5AlwoCBBatImIrreEHFkGmmYpw=; b=W7/PSU3KbuMJpx5GptbdzAxYny+XwkpkAbthjr60Ia7AHebqAZDOWqzOxdCT4O83po PpVqaQqLUrL/S5AuSBciKFNrr+kDTLE2UJPr6LZgeAtiJ2WacqW9IwcvJzBfwPj3xXmY q4lWCDllOv+cHFV2qotPzJPX3R/GxuR+maMeo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=x8Ts3slTXYBpOWzTvTTanqUW2adlJwLC6u2xn88l5pxyKagvt/Mh23GhZawuZZE2e7 oSHacq0Ik2kmR5b+w5F0jvTwd5ieUdNs8npuvemEAwcpFhiUTECTrYlm987a6fApQ1n9 XwxaJxKrlGuMgsrBmeHVajDtWKcE7MyDxJVtg= Received: by 10.78.149.8 with SMTP id w8mr1089403hud.22.1214765644019; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.161.6 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:54:03 -0400 From: "Scott Ullrich" To: "Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20080629.014211.74670684.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080629.014211.74670684.imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB blues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:22:39 -0000 On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:42 AM, Warner Losh wrote: >> when setting WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB, make buildworld breaks with >> make: don't know how to make /r+d/obj/sunfire/alix/i386/r+d/7.0/src/tmp/legacy/ >> usr/lib/libegacy.a. Stop > > Only set it for installworld. Was this documented somewhere after the change? This bit me some time ago and I could not find it documented anywhere. If not can someone add it to /usr/src/UPDATING? Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 29 21:55:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0FA1065674 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:55:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ru@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.vega.ru (infra.dev.vega.ru [90.156.167.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75C278FC19 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:55:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ru@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [87.242.97.68] (port=64544 helo=edoofus.dev.vega.ru) by mail.vega.ru with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KD4sA-000Kqs-9N; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:55:50 +0000 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 01:55:31 +0400 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Scott Ullrich Message-ID: <20080629215531.GC21018@edoofus.dev.vega.ru> References: <20080629.014211.74670684.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB blues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:55:52 -0000 On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 02:54:03PM -0400, Scott Ullrich wrote: > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:42 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > >> when setting WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB, make buildworld breaks with > >> make: don't know how to make /r+d/obj/sunfire/alix/i386/r+d/7.0/src/tmp/legacy/ > >> usr/lib/libegacy.a. Stop > > > > Only set it for installworld. > > Was this documented somewhere after the change? This bit me some time > ago and I could not find it documented anywhere. If not can someone > add it to /usr/src/UPDATING? > It follows from the description of WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB in src.conf(5), but perhaps it's not very obvious. Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 06:04:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF28106567F for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:04:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thespin@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.228]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7198F8FC1A for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:04:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thespin@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so1393529rvf.43 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:04:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=BkKrk+JaQzv1jYrQxw9d/hidxKThPtlIhcb+e1hpCq8=; b=uY+wbPpcTlI9qjMV78OmcdnGWGudJ6q/yDX/qO4jZxu3jhXbEG4asCizs08qgA+44g Vg0uak2Ev9AQSGjq1Ovy8RGPh8sj4wCnE0JOhjBc6AcC/kZUXSveceyADOPEeIEo1nlE wXnuJ3KfNnpeqOLhAkUK66l45+IQkABZiLMQ0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=i2llLCf/l+5uKvIRHvQhrBykK1kChiF8AWiesyvdPDPNw6dPQkUFNMMtq6xHN7xX5D wiUkt3r+6xCdvW7oEbogm1xYY+euHzMt3KNrP24kX0YLmF/oWlOj760GLmaDP0C2lj/D IskcsWM+UkI76+bEP5Fjt7V814ZQ53jPe1QaI= Received: by 10.141.163.12 with SMTP id q12mr2365875rvo.265.1214804265800; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.126.10 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4f1862640806292237g4797a9b4y33a2d70a009639b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:37:45 -0700 From: "Evan Geller" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Recursive case in uma? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:04:40 -0000 Hey, I'm writing a small hobby operating system and I'm looking to the UMA for inspiration. The part I don't understand is the recursive case in uma_zone_slab(). I'm curious where the memory for vm_map_entries actually come from if the slabs are all full. It would appear that the null returned by uma_zone_slab() just carries all the way up and there's a fixed upper limit of vm_map_entries... or that I don't understand the way the uma works. Would someone mind clearing this up for me? Thanks a ton for the help! Evan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 09:07:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F11F1065677; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:07:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from cs1.cs.huji.ac.il (cs1.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D1D8FC1C; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:07:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32]) by cs1.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1KDFMb-0008Y6-J1; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:07:57 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.2 To: Ruslan Ermilov In-reply-to: <20080629215531.GC21018@edoofus.dev.vega.ru> References: <20080629.014211.74670684.imp@bsdimp.com> <20080629215531.GC21018@edoofus.dev.vega.ru> Comments: In-reply-to Ruslan Ermilov message dated "Mon, 30 Jun 2008 01:55:31 +0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:07:57 +0300 From: Danny Braniss Message-ID: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Scott Ullrich Subject: Re: WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB blues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:07:59 -0000 > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 02:54:03PM -0400, Scott Ullrich wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:42 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > >> when setting WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB, make buildworld breaks with > > >> make: don't know how to make /r+d/obj/sunfire/alix/i386/r+d/7.0/src/tmp/legacy/ > > >> usr/lib/libegacy.a. Stop > > > > > > Only set it for installworld. > > > > Was this documented somewhere after the change? This bit me some time > > ago and I could not find it documented anywhere. If not can someone > > add it to /usr/src/UPDATING? > > > It follows from the description of WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB in src.conf(5), > but perhaps it's not very obvious. understatement :-) but if it only applies to 'install' why does it break 'build'? I have one file src.conf, now i need 2? cheers, danny From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 10:06:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A574106567D for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:06:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sepherosa@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98758FC17 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:06:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sepherosa@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so297572ana.13 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:06:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=wk2fcvUFwIUzVIxCfyRVpIAJzTl8Po91t9rNLRyt+BU=; b=aVwVDoBPHM9uJXt2U99eFXa9qGUs19udWm8N3McwjcCEb66ib1SPvw0jayjDQNHg9w buA/Kw/yvsksM39Ed+4eyXFUkVtOuauGHRhiKv5O8jsIGv4mtAxTCtLBaoWptNxd27fY yxPcye0IdVdcoEaz7aVj8pS42HbzYloq/KoAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=TRO4w3lyyTfGHlZv2U8YmOZZi5EJ+zewmR4cXSohz3+ZwvtVilwJrspdYTutngrf2/ xkGF89YrlEixuT+eB6Ma10nn5sAwqLc90fCY04QwRoyJLnNjET0DMJFmJQ+PaaHptcLX ZsDHqp8WX/s8YoMVJbTCSQaQ6+rjIaCFMRkMU= Received: by 10.100.215.5 with SMTP id n5mr3666266ang.6.1214818772029; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:39:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.107.6 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:39:31 +0800 From: "Sepherosa Ziehau" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1214648519.15425.40.camel@devstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1214648519.15425.40.camel@devstation> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Problems with ieee80211 dependencies...] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:06:37 -0000 On 6/28/08, Martes Wigglesworth wrote: > > I had to wait for the rebuild process to error out again, however, here > is the resulting segment of output. > > I included the parts that begin to indicates an error. > > > kdep -f .depend -a -nostdinc -D_KERNEL -DKLD_MODULE > -DHAVE_KERNEL_OPTION_HEADERS -I. -I@ -I@/contrib/altq > -I/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/DATASERVER /usr/src/sys/modules/zyd/../../dev/usb/if_zyd.c > linking kernel.debug Add device ether to you kernel config. Your linking error has _nothing_ to do with 802.11 stuffs. Best Regards, sephe -- Live Free or Die From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 10:08:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15D5106564A for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:08:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ru@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.vega.ru (infra.dev.vega.ru [90.156.167.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D188FC23 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:08:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ru@freebsd.org) Received: from [87.242.97.68] (port=55373 helo=edoofus.dev.vega.ru) by mail.vega.ru with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KDGJH-000H6n-GS; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:08:35 +0000 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:08:16 +0400 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Danny Braniss Message-ID: <20080630100816.GB99247@edoofus.dev.vega.ru> References: <20080629.014211.74670684.imp@bsdimp.com> <20080629215531.GC21018@edoofus.dev.vega.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Scott Ullrich Subject: Re: WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB blues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:08:39 -0000 On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 12:07:57PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 02:54:03PM -0400, Scott Ullrich wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:42 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > >> when setting WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB, make buildworld breaks with > > > >> make: don't know how to make /r+d/obj/sunfire/alix/i386/r+d/7.0/src/tmp/legacy/ > > > >> usr/lib/libegacy.a. Stop > > > > > > > > Only set it for installworld. > > > > > > Was this documented somewhere after the change? This bit me some time > > > ago and I could not find it documented anywhere. If not can someone > > > add it to /usr/src/UPDATING? > > > > > It follows from the description of WITHOUT_INSTALLLIB in src.conf(5), > > but perhaps it's not very obvious. > > understatement :-) > but if it only applies to 'install' why does it break 'build'? I have one file src.conf, now i need 2? > It can be applied only to the "install" stage. If applied to the "build" stage, it will break it because "build" internally uses "install" to install libraries to a temporary place (${WORLDTMP}) so the other programs/libraries can link against them. See your /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp{,/usr}/lib for details (for a canonical mix of /usr/src and /usr/obj). Cheers, -- Ruslan Ermilov ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 12:38:23 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C205106566C; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:38:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sclark46@earthlink.net) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663648FC1B; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:38:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sclark46@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=kRPtMpL8tb3O7muqyzwK2y8RHd2tVDwtOQSWHsSAwhPmi7nnspqLu2fLLR4CsMYK; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.144.77.185] (helo=joker.seclark.com) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KDIeE-0000Qb-Dm; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:38:22 -0400 Message-ID: <4868D3BD.8000200@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:38:21 -0400 From: Stephen Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080501) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Niki Denev References: <20080606234135.46144207@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080622170507.5ac469d2@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <2e77fc10806221101q684baf47r9ee7208a676f59e@mail.gmail.com> <48654F81.6010500@earthlink.net> <2e77fc10806271410q3205fb21r9aed15ec8b035401@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2e77fc10806271410q3205fb21r9aed15ec8b035401@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: a437fbc6971e80f61aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b58efb526102424754c9c7fd1a78333d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.144.77.185 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:22:00 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Geode LX crypto accelerator (glxsb) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: sclark46@earthlink.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:38:23 -0000 Niki Denev wrote: > On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Stephen Clark wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I am trying to compile it on 6.2 and get >> make: don't know how to make cryptodev_if.h. Stop >> >> ??? >> where is this file? >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> > > Have you applied the 6.2 patch included in the latest tgz that Patrick posted? > > Regards, > Niki > Uh.. no -wasn't sure what to apply it to - now that I look at it a bit closer I SEE! Thanks, and sorry for the noise. Steve -- "They that give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Ben Franklin) "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." (Thomas Jefferson) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 17:54:50 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30611065676 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:54:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kamikaze@bsdforen.de) Received: from mail.bsdforen.de (bsdforen.de [212.204.60.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E4B8FC23 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:54:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kamikaze@bsdforen.de) Received: from mobileKamikaze.norad (unknown [92.117.169.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.bsdforen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 247938A0F36 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:54:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <48691DD6.9000306@bsdforen.de> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:54:30 +0200 From: Dominic Fandrey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080607) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050207020908070903030703" Subject: deflate and gzip support for libfetch over http X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:54:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050207020908070903030703 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wanted to benchmark a http-connection using fetch in a shell-script. I came to realize that fetch doesn't support compressed streams when I force-fed it the compressed stream by ignoring the absence of Accept-Encoding. This doesn't influence my benchmarking, but I think fetch should have this feature. I hacked together deflate support for the http part of libfetch. Next on my todo list is proper error handling, gzip support, code clean up and general code clean up in http.c (in order of priority). I'd love to get some feedback, do you consider this useful? Does it work on your system? Would there be a chance of getting the finalized version into SVN? The attached patch applies to RELENG_7. Probably everywhere else, too. Because I think libfetch development has been at a halt for some time. 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KmZ1bm9wZW5mbikoY29ubiwgY2h1bmtlZCkpID09IE5VTEwpIHsKIAkJZmV0Y2hfc3lzZXJy KCk7CiAJCWdvdG8gb3VjaDsKIAl9Ci0tLSBzcmMvbGliL2xpYmZldGNoL01ha2VmaWxlLm9y aWcJMjAwOC0wNi0yOSAyMzo0NTozMi4wMDAwMDAwMDAgKzAyMDAKKysrIHNyYy9saWIvbGli ZmV0Y2gvTWFrZWZpbGUJMjAwOC0wNi0yOSAyMzo0MzoxMS4wMDAwMDAwMDAgKzAyMDAKQEAg LTIwLDYgKzIwLDggQEAKIExEQUREPQkJLWxzc2wgLWxjcnlwdG8KIC5lbmRpZgogCitMREFE RCs9CQktbHoKKwogQ0ZMQUdTKz0JLURGVFBfQ09NQklORV9DV0RTIC1sCiAKIENTVEQ/PQkJ Yzk5Cg== --------------050207020908070903030703-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 30 23:16:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74F31065673; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:16:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stef@memberwebs.com) Received: from mx.npubs.com (mail.zoneseven.net [209.66.100.224]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA338FC1B; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:16:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stef@memberwebs.com) Received: from mx.npubs.com (avhost [209.66.100.194]) by mx.npubs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64D7F181CD; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from northstar-srv2 (unknown [172.27.2.11]) by mx.npubs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0245F1817C; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:16:11 +0000 (UTC) From: Stef User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: <20080615112318.146C1F18512@mx.npubs.com> <200806180917.05689.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040406060900030904060601" Message-Id: <20080630231611.F0245F1817C@mx.npubs.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:16:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:15:22 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 6.3 deadlock (vm_map?) with DDB output X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:16:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040406060900030904060601 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Baldwin wrote: > On Sunday 15 June 2008 07:23:19 am Stef Walter wrote: >> I've been trying to track down a deadlock on some newish production >> servers running FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE-p2. The deadlock occurs on a >> specific (although mundane) hardware configuration, and each of several >> servers running this hardware deadlock about once per week. > > Try this change: > > We use it at work on 6.x. W/o this fix, round-robin stops working on 4BSD > when softclock() (swi4: clock) blocks on a lock like Giant. Just wanted to confirm: That patch did the trick. All the SMP machines that had this problem have been stable for 11 days now, longer than any of them were up previously. I changed the patch slightly to work with FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE. That's attached, in case anyone needs this later. Cheers, Stef --------------040406060900030904060601 Content-Type: text/x-patch; name="kern_sched4bsd_deadlock.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="kern_sched4bsd_deadlock.patch" --- sys/kern/sched_4bsd.c.orig 2006-06-16 22:11:55.000000000 +0000 +++ sys/kern/sched_4bsd.c 2008-06-18 17:04:34.000000000 +0000 @@ -157,13 +157,10 @@ static int sched_quantum; /* Roundrobin scheduling quantum in ticks. */ #define SCHED_QUANTUM (hz / 10) /* Default sched quantum */ -static struct callout roundrobin_callout; - static void slot_fill(struct ksegrp *kg); static struct kse *sched_choose(void); /* XXX Should be thread * */ static void setup_runqs(void); -static void roundrobin(void *arg); static void schedcpu(void); static void schedcpu_thread(void); static void sched_priority(struct thread *td, u_char prio); @@ -316,27 +313,6 @@ } /* - * Force switch among equal priority processes every 100ms. - * We don't actually need to force a context switch of the current process. - * The act of firing the event triggers a context switch to softclock() and - * then switching back out again which is equivalent to a preemption, thus - * no further work is needed on the local CPU. - */ -/* ARGSUSED */ -static void -roundrobin(void *arg) -{ - -#ifdef SMP - mtx_lock_spin(&sched_lock); - forward_roundrobin(); - mtx_unlock_spin(&sched_lock); -#endif - - callout_reset(&roundrobin_callout, sched_quantum, roundrobin, NULL); -} - -/* * Constants for digital decay and forget: * 90% of (kg_estcpu) usage in 5 * loadav time * 95% of (ke_pctcpu) usage in 60 seconds (load insensitive) @@ -618,11 +594,6 @@ sched_quantum = SCHED_QUANTUM; hogticks = 2 * sched_quantum; - callout_init(&roundrobin_callout, CALLOUT_MPSAFE); - - /* Kick off timeout driven events by calling first time. */ - roundrobin(NULL); - /* Account for thread0. */ sched_load_add(); } @@ -697,6 +668,14 @@ resetpriority(kg); resetpriority_thread(td, kg); } + + /* + * Force a context switch if the current thread has used up a full + * quantum (default quantum is 100ms). + */ + if (!((td)->td_flags & TDF_IDLETD) && + ticks - PCPU_GET(switchticks) >= sched_quantum) + td->td_flags |= TDF_NEEDRESCHED; } /* --------------040406060900030904060601-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 09:02:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E251065677; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:02:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@oclc.org) Received: from mail.pica.nl (mail.pica.nl [192.87.44.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8AE48FC1C; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:02:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@oclc.org) Received: from rebelion.Sisis.de ([193.31.10.34]) by mail.pica.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:02:22 +0200 Received: (from guru@localhost) by rebelion.Sisis.de (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m6192Kbs004645; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:02:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: rebelion.Sisis.de: guru set sender to matthias.apitz@oclc.org using -f Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:02:20 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Rui Paulo Message-ID: <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE (i386) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jul 2008 09:02:22.0708 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C9C6B40:01C8DB59] Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, james@nighthack.org, Matthias Apitz , Manolis Kiagias Subject: Re: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:02:25 -0000 El día Sunday, June 29, 2008 a las 05:22:34PM +0100, Rui Paulo escribió: > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 06:05:27PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Hola Rui, > > > > I've found your very usefull pages in http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee > > > > I CVS'uped the kernel to RELENG_7, built it and moved it to the eeePC; > > now Fn+F2 works as it should and I can even kldunload if_ath, power-off > > and power-on the wireless card, and after kldload if_ath the interface > > comes up fine again and my devd(8) hook assigns IP again; now it works as > > it should; will have a look into the events seen by devd(8) to make the > > kldunload and kldload perhaps there; > > > > thanks for your work and help; > > Cool, no problem. Rui, Have you commited your changes to RELENG_7 too or only to HEAD? I'm asking because Fn+F2 does toggle the power of the wireless NIC but devd(8) does not see any ACPI event in this case; it sees it for example if the battery comes full; thx for clarifying this could you please send me the /etc/devd.conf file you mention in the page http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee ? in the one which came out of CVS with RELENG_7 I could not see anything about hotkeys; thx in advance matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ «...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.» «...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.» José Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 11:15:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC19F106567D for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:15:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4685A8FC20 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:15:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k31so1854692fkk.11 for ; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:15:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:cc:subject :message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent:sender; bh=Op3seuNAgg1E5bdkStzndP7DkTjnF5hu985m9qj7gpc=; b=aCHOnNvLvrABMTzBQC950g1UvFET3fJ0duEGiYQ6+Jb3Bhyg+RCjElyCCSSTRA+IFy 25TIZpIbH+WycTVS+TfSzNa+DFZyeE76Zdku2QsrVi5uS/48LfherI8zmjewWbbmg4mn tFTHsdnluCL+bsb8Dpnytt/BWdl2dDCt67bDA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent:sender; b=EwtW2aEknmgriqSBhIhOH9x/aiD63XTb08S9vxaGvUmHFyz2cidU6NfJe6isnLfjQU UfkTTz61vPXXoMuZ1kL0X9KT73rGBltKc+eHZYkXTPWdFSX066DqQuthEzVbNQsdkcwB /7OZcan5W71MoAWHyI2EoR5QLpKL2skBBAL7M= Received: by 10.78.181.13 with SMTP id d13mr1613450huf.34.1214910956948; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phi.local ( [92.250.124.100]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 40sm5742015hue.40.2008.07.01.04.15.53 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:14:26 +0100 From: Rui Paulo To: Matthias Apitz Message-ID: <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: Rui Paulo Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, james@nighthack.org, Rui Paulo , Manolis Kiagias Subject: Re: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:15:58 -0000 On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 11:02:20AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > Rui, > Have you commited your changes to RELENG_7 too or only to HEAD? I'm > asking because Fn+F2 does toggle the power of the wireless NIC but > devd(8) does not see any ACPI event in this case; it sees it for example > if the battery comes full; > > thx for clarifying this > > could you please send me the /etc/devd.conf file you mention in the page > http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee ? in the one which came out of CVS with > RELENG_7 I could not see anything about hotkeys; thx in advance Only to HEAD. I'm going to MFC it today. Regards, -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 1 11:38:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C4A1065675 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:38:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBF788FC21 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:38:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2472085; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:38:55 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Dominic Fandrey References: <48691DD6.9000306@bsdforen.de> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:38:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <48691DD6.9000306@bsdforen.de> (Dominic Fandrey's message of "Mon\, 30 Jun 2008 19\:54\:30 +0200") Message-ID: <86iqvp25rl.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/23.0.60 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deflate and gzip support for libfetch over http X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:38:58 -0000 Dominic Fandrey writes: > I hacked together deflate support for the http part of libfetch. Next > on my todo list is proper error handling, gzip support, code clean up > and general code clean up in http.c (in order of priority). I think the libfetch API has been stretched to its limit, or close to it, and that it should be redesigned from scratch. That said, I don't see any harm in adding deflate / gzip support, but it has to be done in a way that supports transfers that are chunked *and* compressed. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 12:42:04 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6084106567E for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:42:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A1D8FC0C for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:42:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so124453nfh.33 for ; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 05:42:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:cc:subject :message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent:sender; bh=K0u7Eyh9E2vQLi3vWedwXQ2wJfDJL704n8rv4WbZM8s=; b=hsWX8tK9h3P2rs/dTYgGIfHges3+3oVy6DNQ3vgGUUsAViO26A5lo6LW1L+0UR2IEZ q0FkCoH4JXd8dcLBEpxxfT2nG57KrI3djI+xpBxhyLvDOWMMxEFxj9huEwJYKsAYVzRb JAtHu8nB/warLPWGWAvcv8grfOzVp93Afh+c4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent:sender; b=lAMyD2X8w93rSoHyJsYqpCbJUuPmvHWsqS1HoiOTOvCZH0kBdhZvFCJTRUXu/bqXJy qnuaQyDzyMpMsusivYU8/ChG7rig+kgnV9mPh0Txh1s/CJJpH5/R6W8P6EW83YOUxoTA 5Kkn8Qj1RG/JjZeM2kUD0Uwr0fRuAAMt6z0lY= Received: by 10.210.139.15 with SMTP id m15mr6519363ebd.51.1215001034852; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 05:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phi.local ( [92.250.107.107]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j8sm7972724gvb.1.2008.07.02.05.17.12 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 02 Jul 2008 05:17:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:15:45 +0100 From: Rui Paulo To: Mike Meyer Message-ID: <20080702121545.GA7515@phi.local> References: <20080628191533.367ad223@bhuda.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080628191533.367ad223@bhuda.mired.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: Rui Paulo Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Custom VESA modes on FreeBSD 7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:42:04 -0000 On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 07:15:33PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote: > I'm trying to get FreeBSD 7-RELEASE running in a VirtualBox VM to use > all of my LCD panel in X. The running X is using the vesa driver, > which should be cool for this, as VirtualBox has provisions for > creating custom vesa modes. And in fact, the Xorg.0.log file shows > that it sees the new mode - but it doesn't use it. > > The VirtualBox docs note that for Linux to use such a mode, you have > to provide a "vga" command line option with the new mode # in it to > the linux kernel. None of the FreeBSD boot parameters seem applicable > here. > > Basically, the question is - what do I have to do to get the X.org > vesa driver to use a non-standard vesa mode on FreeBSD? Is there any > other information I can attach that might help with this? Maybe you need to add a correct ModeLine to your xorg config file ? A quick Google search returned: http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=59 HTH, -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 16:50:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5909C1065687 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:50:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from yx-out-2324.google.com (yx-out-2324.google.com [74.125.44.29]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103AB8FC1E for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:50:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so117208yxb.13 for ; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:50:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=htXpg/YO+jjrJoqg6qqAYpTT3qrSEGvPKEfSkKvadLs=; b=RPJL7imvloteh9CtajKgJe2JEAa5UQOcR0EySYGY7qPLxvJQNs7GBP2z0Weu9c+g3m qGasfaZwhPeSGNWqB68Mpfm+geABQk5KZaKGN11uFN0YrvOJGWSOyu0qz2466oBRfK2X PAxHwwSlFIW2BBXNft89hjAaniO0x+6YkkQYg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=eHDCaFY3pbKGergCdU5ykjttkNKOJ5zxc7Fo9EqUz1r8HbgCErgzkzWKZWLwZ0yoKd MTTHHZ4t6T9DNdRqoVo5z5mANili9zIL7Dx3vRY9S/OFllIx7ua3/twkIfkOVAjlcczb KEFddDH1gR4R+JddfAx40JmOMDesB4t9AQ2hA= Received: by 10.151.145.17 with SMTP id x17mr13442391ybn.20.1215017442092; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.41.11 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1bd550a00807020950x24af0f8n6d2a9c66f14f1cfd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:50:42 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?=" To: "FreeBSD Hackers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: FreeBSD 7 64 bits kernel crash debugging X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:50:43 -0000 Hi all, I'm experiencing several kernel crashes with the GENERIC kernel and with custom kernels as well. One of my MP3 players seems to be recognized, but if I disconnect it from the USB port (even without mounting the device), I got a kernel crash. I've tried to follow the instructions at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug.html I have dumpdev and dumpdir properly set to my swap partition (ad0s2b) and to /var/crash. However, during the next boot, I got a message that indicates it is looking for a dump on such device but it couldn't find any. How can I track this error? Thanks in advance. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 18:51:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0CC81065674 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:51:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: from yx-out-2324.google.com (yx-out-2324.google.com [74.125.44.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADC68FC1B for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:51:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so140064yxb.13 for ; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:51:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=neSnrLcMoy+UCGVS9M2Lb0uv3cGjDzlELQS5qgIjp9I=; b=VvKcroxmp032D0vL3DIkFNYQJigCF7aMXGxdgHOhF7Crl40Fo3PKexq+7bi22YYpfv irUS35a+4nq+nbWDk+QEuUb828Z4mJM4AItSHE2xzgm5T155Js7K6BpEEMIQ87WnNNdo zJnAOlvKhfLLPJ6hmymRK+xiC5vRW2RExC0MQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=L6OyeG+m7X6K4zAYOsxVH6PwbuyEoy1gJ09cBgUNazbTY/9Rr5nU4ujMFJS9lpWBuy ruqpB3h+Yqk+7KgcDCKOA31YG3UvBg9eqL1P9CKyRPEzNsXieOFG6Dsmp6tjqKy9+gqq tKgP7NARaFHm+3Aax5Hcsw0UYlzs0zCIGceSc= Received: by 10.142.177.7 with SMTP id z7mr3183663wfe.88.1215023028088; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.20 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:30:13 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:51:50 -0000 Hi All, My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than reboots. 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already installed dependencies. I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone who knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug report would be futile. Food for thought. Thanks, Rob -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 20:18:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3121065685 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:18:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (five.mired.org [66.92.153.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A128FC16 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:18:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: (qmail 93349 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2008 15:51:17 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO mbook.local) (192.168.195.193) by 0 with SMTP; 2 Jul 2008 15:51:17 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:51:28 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: Rui Paulo Message-ID: <20080702155128.2a4c5a23@mbook.local> In-Reply-To: <20080702121545.GA7515@phi.local> References: <20080628191533.367ad223@bhuda.mired.org> <20080702121545.GA7515@phi.local> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.1 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i386-apple-darwin9.2.2) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:22:31 +0000 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Custom VESA modes on FreeBSD 7? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:18:12 -0000 On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:15:45 +0100 Rui Paulo wrote: > On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 07:15:33PM -0400, Mike Meyer wrote: > > I'm trying to get FreeBSD 7-RELEASE running in a VirtualBox VM to use > > all of my LCD panel in X. The running X is using the vesa driver, > > which should be cool for this, as VirtualBox has provisions for > > creating custom vesa modes. And in fact, the Xorg.0.log file shows > > that it sees the new mode - but it doesn't use it. > > > > The VirtualBox docs note that for Linux to use such a mode, you have > > to provide a "vga" command line option with the new mode # in it to > > the linux kernel. None of the FreeBSD boot parameters seem applicable > > here. > > > > Basically, the question is - what do I have to do to get the X.org > > vesa driver to use a non-standard vesa mode on FreeBSD? Is there any > > other information I can attach that might help with this? > > Maybe you need to add a correct ModeLine to your xorg config file ? > > A quick Google search returned: > http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=59 Yeah, I had seen that. He's not using the vesa driver; he's using the VirtualBox driver (not available for FreeBSD as far as I know). However, I had tried setting the modelines and modes as suggested, and this still doesn't work - the vesa driver reports the new mode, but X never even considers using it. Thanks, http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 20:29:09 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 280D21065673 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:29:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from millenia2000@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s35.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s35.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.235]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C54B8FC18 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:29:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from millenia2000@hotmail.com) Received: from BAY126-W12 ([65.55.131.47]) by bay0-omc3-s35.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:29:08 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [204.249.77.1] From: Sean Cavanaugh To: Rob Lytle , , Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:29:08 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2008 20:29:08.0792 (UTC) FILETIME=[47C39B80:01C8DC82] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: RE: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:29:09 -0000 > Date: Wed=2C 2 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700 > From: jan6146@gmail.com > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org=3B freebsd-current@freebsd.org > CC:=20 > Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years >=20 > Hi All=2C >=20 > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. >=20 > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredib= ly > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > If you don't believe me=2C just mark a whole bunch of random packages aft= er > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's=2C ad then install. Its frustrating and a= lmost > like Windows=2C except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > reboots. >=20 > 2. When installing any given package=2C if a dependency is already there= =2C > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to pres= s > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. >=20 > I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > once from CD1=2C then CD2=2C then CD3. As for the second case=2C I don't= know > enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > installed dependencies. >=20 > I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > programmed in 5 languages=2C but that was long ago. I'm old. But someon= e who > knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug repor= t > would be futile. >=20 > Food for thought. Thanks=2C This is the reason I install everything from ports. The packages were divided into understandable clusters to make them fit on = CDs. Perhaps you would benefit from getting the DVD ISO instead which has e= verything together. Im sure someone on the list could provide you the link = for it or google for it. -Sean From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 22:43:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB94106566C for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:43:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from curtis.penner2@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.171]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406388FC13 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:43:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from curtis.penner2@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so493909wfg.7 for ; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:43:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Sa+r45eKEyrdWwy/piwoO2ExL44jGcpSQslEfp9uVCs=; b=QWQLxmPhUqXzeP04v695Bkk8gZwSmh+Z7A0k6wXdYZvyavJwu5xVNHlE+hUorYPXJD OJxiMe99bJWLR4C9ACwXkWG+t6smR6NIEOyiGEO+K2UPSdOWbvV0KLVigy6m7afhkFaD DaQeQuMiKOCjNBoMmncg9F9wqLYv8oDjKd2rY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=cDkqtgw+g4CL4JnlapXpzG6ySRXSgjKFmAlJ00PuM7aVnw0lf23+4WRokUYNy9PgUs lTxFYh7WVr2dpHmt1g+kak15WU3Hx8H01li8zax4HkxFegiu96/RF5S/LTrTVzCveEBL aHYcO/1GF2MXmDFY4zkVYYrwJkQJe/QuJEcQU= Received: by 10.142.173.8 with SMTP id v8mr1224516wfe.221.1215037026730; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.105? ( [71.131.191.52]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 29sm18706046wfg.0.2008.07.02.15.16.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:16:27 -0700 From: Curtis Penner User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jan6146@gmail.com References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:43:18 -0000 Let us take this further. Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The size to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system it is rock steady and only getting better. The documentation is outstanding. It is what others should look to. So what is wrong? It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech savvy. When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the initial install. Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is such a turn off. As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is little in common with the rest. Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD. I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go advance and do special custom work). -Curtis Rob Lytle wrote: > Hi All, > > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > reboots. > > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > > I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > installed dependencies. > > I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone who > knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug report > would be futile. > > Food for thought. Thanks, > > Rob > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 22:45:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15399106567A for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:45:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8438C8FC16 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:45:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from vampire.homelinux.org (dslb-088-066-002-228.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.66.2.228]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML21M-1KEB4q1mNd-0002ub; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:45:28 +0200 Received: (qmail 7636 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2008 22:45:28 -0000 Received: from myhost.laiers.local (192.168.4.151) by ns1.laiers.local with SMTP; 2 Jul 2008 22:45:28 -0000 From: Max Laier Organization: FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:43:18 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807030043.18865.max@love2party.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1++89EZU6ETqrZXT+xb8fLphUV++zkNn7zCnXY RpAvy99oWyVe0J0dk2m9qC88ivLzprNCwC5x+SqVuFCMBd9VwR gaSKHk7pirNDO/e4J4g1w== Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jan6146@gmail.com, Curtis Penner Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:45:30 -0000 http://www.pcbsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 22:59:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9927E1065679 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:59:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3588FC18 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:59:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A5F146B9D; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:59:56 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Rob Lytle In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:59:56 -0000 On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Rob Lytle wrote: > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. The good news is that there are no less than three in-progress sysinstall replacements. At least two have been posted about recently with test ISOs for 7.0. And there are at least a couple of other variations floating around, such as the PC-BSD installer. So I think we can expect to see non-trivial progress here in the next year. My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually hurt my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what I do want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I feel sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > reboots. > > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > > I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > installed dependencies. > > I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone who > knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug report > would be futile. > > Food for thought. Thanks, > > Rob > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds > (Ham radio videos) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 23:23:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8FC1065672 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:23:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd-hackers@mawer.org) Received: from outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au (outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.108]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BDD8FC18 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:23:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd-hackers@mawer.org) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApQAAHSja0jLzq3r/2dsb2JhbAAIsjc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,739,1204470000"; d="scan'208";a="351572940" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.24.1.1]) ([203.206.173.235]) by outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2008 06:54:11 +0800 Message-ID: <486C0699.6070006@mawer.org> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:52:09 +1000 From: Antony Mawer User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Curtis Penner References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jan6146@gmail.com Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:23:53 -0000 Curtis Penner wrote: > Let us take this further. ... > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. ... > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). Ivan Voras has done some great work on addressing this with his finstall project: http://wiki.freebsd.org/finstall http://sourceforge.net/projects/finstall --Antony From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 23:16:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984881065671; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:16:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antoinebrunel@yahoo.fr) Received: from fb1.tech.numericable.fr (fb1.tech.numericable.fr [82.216.111.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277B58FC0C; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:16:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antoinebrunel@yahoo.fr) Received: from smtp5.tech.numericable.fr (smtp5.nc.sdv.fr [10.0.0.72]) by fb1.tech.numericable.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id F087C11DCDF; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 01:03:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from brunel.pagan.fr (cable-83.217.146.118.coditel.net [83.217.146.118]) by smtp5.tech.numericable.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311FD124009; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 01:03:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:03:04 +0200 From: Antoine BRUNEL User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080609) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Curtis Penner References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:30:47 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jan6146@gmail.com Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:16:38 -0000 I complete what Curtis wrote... How many times do you have to install a BSD system ??? even in case of hell, you can still remove every ports/ package, juste leaving the CSH and kernel layer, then install what you need again... try to remove the "glibc" package from Linux (an Howto exists), and enjoy.... Compared to Windows / Linux (RedHat or Suse distributions), BSD still offers a way to finely tune your system depending on your needs, instead of putting gigabyte software in place, "just in case of", with tons of windows managers, productivity tools, etc... BSD are still "harder" systems compared to other, but with more control on what happens.... In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. So, just another useless contribution..... Curtis Penner a écrit : > Let us take this further. > > Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, > Linux is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. > > BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The > size to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the > system it is rock steady and only getting better. The documentation > is outstanding. It is what others should look to. > > So what is wrong? > > It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are > tech savvy. > > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > initial install. > > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would > develop on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All > the development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, > NetBean, Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You > feel like a rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't > work. That is such a turn off. > > As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You > don't have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) > > I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there > is little in common with the rest. > > Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and > distribute BSD. > > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). > > > -Curtis > > > Rob Lytle wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. >> >> 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an >> incredibly >> tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 >> times. >> If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages >> after >> obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and >> almost >> like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than >> reboots. >> >> 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already >> there , >> the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to >> press >> OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. >> >> I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at >> once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know >> enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps >> comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already >> installed dependencies. >> >> I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it >> written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've >> programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But >> someone who >> knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an >> inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug >> report >> would be futile. >> >> Food for thought. Thanks, >> >> Rob >> >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 23:26:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F591065673; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:26:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Received: from rip.psg.com (rip.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::39]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B66E8FC2A; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:26:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Received: from 50.216.138.210.bn.2iij.net ([210.138.216.50] helo=rmac.psg.com) by rip.psg.com with esmtpsa (SSLv3:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KEBiO-000Oi1-T8; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:26:21 +0000 Message-ID: <486C0E9B.5070608@psg.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:26:19 +0900 From: Randy Bush User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Curtis Penner References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:52:12 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jan6146@gmail.com Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:26:22 -0000 > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click if i want point and click, i use a mac (and spend a lot of time using find to see where the hell they moved things). if i want solid & performance, i run freebsd and learn to live with portupgrade. because expert people resources are very limited, i would rather that freebsd folk work on solid & performance. randy, who is embarrassed by his lack of contribution From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 23:57:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2709106564A; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:57:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from cauchy.math.missouri.edu (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E828FC19; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:57:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from laptop3.gateway.2wire.net (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by cauchy.math.missouri.edu (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m62NuRSE007696; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:56:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Message-ID: <486C15DE.3000504@math.missouri.edu> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:57:18 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080701 SeaMonkey/1.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <20080702233411.GA26065@phat.za.net> In-Reply-To: <20080702233411.GA26065@phat.za.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:57:20 -0000 On the whole, I rather like the installation process for FreeBSD. Generally what I really like about FreeBSD is the ease of system administration, and whenever I use Linux distributions I get rather frustrated. If, as the OP suggests, installation of packages from the FreeBSD CD's requires switching around 40 times, then that is bad. But it should be something easily fixable, without greatly modifying the rest of the process. Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 00:08:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2A7106564A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:08:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: from mail.frase.id.au (203-219-142-174.static.tpgi.com.au [203.219.142.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D8C8FC19 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:08:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: from mail.frase.id.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frase.id.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6308LKj070699; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:08:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: (from Fraser@localhost) by mail.frase.id.au (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6308LQq070698; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:08:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Fraser) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:08:21 +1000 From: Fraser Tweedale To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080703000820.GA68573@bacardi> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AqsLC8rIMeq19msA" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: curtis.penner2@gmail.com Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:08:24 -0000 --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 03:16:27PM -0700, Curtis Penner wrote: > Let us take this further. >=20 > Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux= =20 > is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. >=20 Some distros, perhaps, though I'd say that the fact that there is an overwhelming number of distros, with most of them doing things in complete different and incompatible ways,is an indication that the Linux community, in general, does not "understand the user" any more than the BSD community. That's not to say that I don't think there's a place for a few distros, just as there are a few different flavours of BSD. > BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The size= =20 > to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system it= =20 > is rock steady and only getting better. The documentation is=20 > outstanding. It is what others should look to. >=20 > So what is wrong? >=20 > It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough=20 > users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech= =20 > savvy. Could you explain what you means by "It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications." And it's certainly not hard to get what you want. The ports system has >18k ports and is extremely easy to use. Especially when you consider the quality of our documentation, which as you have rightly pointed out, is excellent. >=20 > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The=20 > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech=20 > savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the=20 > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full=20 > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common=20 > these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the=20 > initial install. >=20 Noone is going to argue on the point of sysinstall. But as already mentioned, there are possible replacements in progress. Wireless can also be a little tricky, but I don't believe the situation is any different with Linux. As for the ports, I don't see what your point is. People who know what they require will have no trouble finding it, and if there's anyone out there who panics when confronted with the various versions of postgresql in ports, and doesn't know which to use... why would they be=20 installing it in the first place? > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop= =20 > on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the=20 > development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean,= =20 > Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a= =20 > rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is=20 > such a turn off. >=20 I can't comment much on these (don't do Java development) except to say that FreeBSD has good Java support, and that I've installed and used=20 Eclipse on FreeBSD before without hassles. > As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look=20 > at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't= =20 > have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) >=20 FreeBSD has packages. They're not the best. They're definitely not the worst. > I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista),=20 > and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is= =20 > little in common with the rest. >=20 FUD. FreeBSD is a stable, high performance, modern operating system suitable for server, desktop and laptop use (I do all three). A few=20 parts of the system are due for an overhaul. > Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more=20 > installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to=20 > laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean=20 > getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute B= SD. >=20 Yes, that would be great. So if you want to see that, why are you spreading all this FUD? > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click=20 > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go=20 > advance and do special custom work). >=20 >=20 > -Curtis frase --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkhsGHQACgkQPw/2FZbemTVRJwCeJCqd9h5jftVOhLcgQQ7JSLwd JSEAn3zkGHrfPXJdjpDW1F66YytbkIEW =0JYQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 00:54:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E2A1065678 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:54:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (five.mired.org [66.92.153.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AE28FC23 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:54:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: (qmail 2535 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Jul 2008 20:54:17 -0400 Received: from bhuda.mired.org (bhuda [192.168.195.1]) by bhuda (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:54:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:54:15 -0400 To: Curtis Penner Message-ID: <20080702205415.0165f389@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.4.0 (GTK+ 2.12.9; amd64-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Mike Meyer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jan6146@gmail.com Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:54:31 -0000 On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:16:27 -0700 Curtis Penner wrote: > BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. I disagree, but that's another debate. BSD is still my desktop OS of choice. > So what is wrong? > > It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech > savvy. Huh? The ports collection has nearly 19 thousand entries in it. Is there another OS with *anything* like that? The blastwave folks were recently bragging that they were going to hit 1800! Yeah, if you want *proprietary* tools, you lose. As far as I can tell, that kills you on three issues: Flash, high-end graphics performance, and virtualization tools. For pretty much everything else I've run into, we seem to do ok. > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > initial install. I find this to be the case on *every* system. I've never managed to find a system that provided *everything* I needed in an install. So I inevitably wind up wading through a see of repositories and dependencies to get what I need. For GNU/Linux, that usually means installing the tools I need to *build* what I actually need. Tedious and unnecessary would be a step *up*. > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop > on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the > development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, > Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a > rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is > such a turn off. Ok, I don't do Java (because I like OO programming and want to keep it that way!), but I found three of the four things in the ports tree (assuming that Sturts is actually Struts, anyway). Which means the packages should be there as well. > As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't > have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) I'm not sure the best out of the box is Apple, but I haven't installed new Sun hardware in a *long* time. But Apple boxes come out of the box installed - that's hard to beat. As for GNU/Linux, the only install that comes close to installing a usable system is Gentoo. The other all seem to want to compete with windows, and treat their users like idiots who need every choice made for them. > I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is > little in common with the rest. Hmm. Which Solaris did you use? SXCE b89 looks an awful lot like a FreeBSD install, except they do it under X with a GUI (so you need 3/4ths of a gig just to run the installer) - including progress messages to an xterm - instead of the console. 2008.05 looks amazingly like a GNU/Linux install - all pointy/clicky, no choices about what you want, you get 3 gig of lawn ornaments which I personally had no use for on the server in question (which is how I came to learn what an SXCE install looks like). Not to mention that after being installed, it's slower than Vista even when it's got more than twice the horsepower underneath it. > Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD. I believe we already have a bigger, better application repository than any other current Unix or Unix-like system. However, I can't find hard numbers for rpm or deb-based distributions repositories. But "rpms" or "debs" found scattered around the net aren't a "repository"; they won't work except against what they were build against, and trying to get them to is a *real* recipe for frustration. > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). Is it really that simple? If we had an installer that looked as pretty as a van gogh, and all you had to do was enter your country and postal code and it then installed the base system, you wouldn't be happy (I certainly wouldn't mind such a thing)? I suspect that what you *really* want - and what the GNU/Linux distros, and Solaris 2008.05, and OSX try to provide - is a system with everything you want pre-installed, without you having to figure it out how to use a package system or anything else that looks the least bit like work. Personally, no single system can do that for me. What I want on my desktop is different from what pretty much anyone else wants on their desktop is different from what I want on a router is different from what I want on a mail server is different from what I want on a web server is different from what I want on try-python.mired.org. Things that I can't do without on some are things that ask to be pwn'ed on others, and in some cases I want the same functionality from different tools on different systems. I don't care how familiar you are with a system, it's *far* easier to add the things you know you want to a solid base than it is to remove crap that will cause you headaches later from a distro whose design criteria was maximizing installations, hence checking off as many features on a checklist as possible. On a desktop box, unneeded tools are just a waste of space; on a server, they can be an open invitation to pwn your server. That said - yeah, our installer is old and primitive. But it'll run on almost nothing (3/4ths of a GIG just to run the INSTALLER!?!?!?). There are people working on improving it, but frankly, the needed improvements are largely cosmetic, not conceptual. Any replacement for the installer should require less work but not less smarts. It needs to ask questions, because the correct answer to every general question about what to install is "it depends on what you want it for." For people who just want to muck about with a desktop, there are a couple of FreeBSD distributions with live CD's and a plethora of applications installed, etc. That's the right way to go about attracting an audience from the desktop. FreeBSD is the easiest system I know of to tailor to my needs. So long as that remains true, it will remain my OS of choice. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 23:59:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 049ED106567F for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:59:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: from mail.geek.sh (decoder.geek.sh [196.36.198.81]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D1BF8FC2B for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:59:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aragon@phat.za.net) Received: by mail.geek.sh (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B8A9224D22; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 01:34:11 +0200 (SAST) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 01:34:11 +0200 From: Aragon Gouveia To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080702233411.GA26065@phat.za.net> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p2 i386 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:03:40 +0000 Cc: Curtis Penner Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:59:18 -0000 Hi, As just another FreeBSD user.... | By Curtis Penner | [ 2008-07-03 00:51 +0200 ] > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > savvy to know what you want to do. I respectfully disagree with your opinion of the installer. Contrary to your opinion, I cringe on the odd occasions that I have to install linux or windows. Sysinstall might have some quirks and look dated, but FreeBSD is the only OS I can install in less than 5-10 minutes AND still install only what I want the way I want it. I really hope the new installers that are in the pipeline don't change that. > You have to search out all the > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. Again, disagree. Sounds like you don't like freedom of choice much. For me it's one of the best parts of FreeBSD's package management. > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). I'm not! If you don't care what is going on, why does it matter that you have FreeBSD installed? Pick something like PCBSD or even Ubuntu - as easy and thought free as it comes. Regards, Aragon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 2 23:59:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6591065671 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:59:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60AD8FC12 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:59:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so324803pyb.10 for ; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:59:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=A2SSamJ4nEL9arPHr6B9TTC0NgXjLw5+yaycFLriBaY=; b=jg89FmheFBMdUpfy9P0De99tr89EIKEvgJV0uWXALBm/lnJrMEyZrHDjxMoLB2bYl/ odDhOwuwz3BRmUzOxOLbWDhl+JIDqWq9l7GIVg14Prqrwx1wNLq89e6U51HD9Aq3wkRm FAwsXNooAp/XrH1oZF8XpMxCW8azDuveTgBYA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=r3Qu4ntfEL2Y7Nf2bRPoceuI/E76dyeMDrqcJH3XBYJI0GAUujxg5r01S1Wp8CS/DI t+yfiXJYa3sEnchZBPnX4uASrevB0V9MIBseN3x4aXtv7CUMpxCkqhiiwd9O1J6ieIXF SVUMI5zwi7gV4kX1WZoepAtDRRtnjLUDncYE4= Received: by 10.142.154.20 with SMTP id b20mr2039036wfe.59.1215043197617; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.20 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <784966050807021659h5ba54a2dy9093f6e1ab76f297@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:59:57 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" To: "Sean Cavanaugh" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:03:41 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / thanks for responding X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:59:59 -0000 Thanks Sean, This is the first time I ever actually downloaded all 3 CD's so i didn't know what I was getting into. I had always just used the first CD for the initial install, then ports for everything else. Next time I will use the dvd. Actually that would have been perfect as I got one of those unusual 550kB/s connections from ftp, lol. But I decided this time to get as many packages as quickly as possible, then run portupgrade on them to get the latest versions. I just did a make buildworld and made the kernel. Now I'm waiting here to do the make installworld after I go shopping. Plus its so hot here in Oregon I have to put the fan on my Sony VAIO SZ460N/C laptop. Its small but overheats, esp when using the NVidea graphics, so I use the i810 instead. I'm having problems with portupgrade though. Something got screwed up so a bunch of package compiles are failing. Most all of KDE is in there but it wont start and doesn't even give error messages, even when started with the console. In contrast Windowmaker works fine, so that is what I'm using now. I got another copy of ports.tar.gz as perhaps the old copy was corrupted, so after world gets installed, I will try portupgrade again. Sincerely, Rob On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Sean Cavanaugh wrote: > > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700 > > From: jan6146@gmail.com > > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org > > CC: > > Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years > > > > > Hi All, > > > > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > > > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an > incredibly > > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and > almost > > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > > reboots. > > > > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > > > > I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > > once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > > enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > > comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > > installed dependencies. > > > > I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > > written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > > programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someone > who > > knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > > inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug > report > > would be futile. > > > > Food for thought. Thanks, > > > This is the reason I install everything from ports. > > The packages were divided into understandable clusters to make them fit on > CDs. Perhaps you would benefit from getting the DVD ISO instead which has > everything together. Im sure someone on the list could provide you the link > for it or google for it. > > -Sean > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 00:11:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98EF1065680 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:11:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A29C8FC3B for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:11:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so517900wfg.7 for ; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 17:11:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=mEhYzfAh61t3GsRxOHGOjS6iXjJiOtpU+IyX1u70PkQ=; b=UTD9T5e7xUPT58f8HpSyticY2MfYgcRKQig4DKAo68u5cMnv4Gjg8DMXX8fj7npbg6 o+HxqNQ5K3CqYAhvb9UnGD2FH1HswFcse6KVrGYzncRtmckv2jt64k3uyyhuLSP2tAMU rYrsdoNoz9xSQRSkRMtTuJ8B35KTLzLk6dsZo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=yBt3QRm3fjlfll9NHpGngaLw0QKrGXDGSVud+QBHAAL0Ho55rHATB3IhVzs/LfQWyM huI4OL5jKy2UJDZJr2eeoPtkMqua5UOgL9/OtAdWzLZ6fKKl0sRM7RAslLCqXn0ee2m0 Id45WI5k1ugKlijw7kVax+uMx7esCl56lKtc0= Received: by 10.142.51.4 with SMTP id y4mr3303095wfy.220.1215043908089; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 17:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.20 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <784966050807021711l3c738640gcc2579018b66d314@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:11:47 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" To: "Antoine BRUNEL" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:09:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:11:48 -0000 Thanks for responding Curtis, I've used FreeBSD for a long time. In fact, when the Athlon first came out= , FreeBSD would run with it, and SUSE would not. I thought that was a good sign that FreeBSD was top notch. Plus it booted faster than any computer and/or OS I had ever used. And the memory management was incredible. I hardly ever page out to swap, even running a number of apps at once. Nothing even slows down. But after I got this new laptop I never reinstalled it. Laptops are all made so crappy in China that every year or two something breaks, I get pissed, and I buy a new one. My old Dell had to have the motherboard replaced 5 times, 4 of those because the ethernet connector came loose and they had no choice but to put a new board in. All that for a $0.10 part. But I have problems just transferring hard drives because of SATA vs. IDE. I'm not sure how to get the data from one to another without a tape drive, which it seems is expensive. I dirched Ununtu as I found out my priority bug report was never acted on and is still there from a year a go, numbered up in the 20,000's. When you manually configure your Wifi, upon the next reboot it just goes out and randomly connects to any open access point- not my WAP encrypted one here. Even Vista can be set not to do that! Sincerely, Rob On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Antoine BRUNEL wrote: > I complete what Curtis wrote... > > How many times do you have to install a BSD system ??? even in case of > hell, you can still remove every ports/ package, juste leaving the CSH an= d > kernel layer, then install what you need again... try to remove the "glib= c" > package from Linux (an Howto exists), and enjoy.... > > Compared to Windows / Linux (RedHat or Suse distributions), BSD still > offers a way to finely tune your system depending on your needs, instead = of > putting gigabyte software in place, "just in case of", with tons of windo= ws > managers, productivity tools, etc... > > BSD are still "harder" systems compared to other, but with more control o= n > what happens.... > > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing = a > working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by "hands". > But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / Debian to > FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > So, just another useless contribution..... > > > Curtis Penner a =E9crit : > >> Let us take this further. >> >> Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux >> is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. >> >> BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The size = to >> capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system it is >> rock steady and only getting better. The documentation is outstanding. = It >> is what others should look to. >> >> So what is wrong? >> >> It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough users= . >> Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech savvy. >> >> When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The >> front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech savv= y to >> know what you want to do. You have to search out all the variations of = the >> applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full package -- Examples= : >> Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common these day), you better= set >> aside as much time or more as doing the initial install. >> >> Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop >> on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the developm= ent >> environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, Hibernation= , >> Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a rabbit jumpin= g >> around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is such a turn off. >> >> As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look a= t >> the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't hav= e to >> copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) >> >> I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), an= d >> the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is lit= tle >> in common with the rest. >> >> Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more instal= ls >> and more people on the systems. That means more installs to laptops. Th= e >> installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean getting more Open >> Source people and companies to compile and distribute BSD. >> >> I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click wi= th >> not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go advance = and >> do special custom work). >> >> >> -Curtis >> >> >> Rob Lytle wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. >>> >>> 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an >>> incredibly >>> tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 time= s. >>> If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages aft= er >>> obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and >>> almost >>> like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than >>> reboots. >>> >>> 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there= , >>> the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to >>> press >>> OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. >>> >>> I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages a= t >>> once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't kno= w >>> enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps >>> comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already >>> installed dependencies. >>> >>> I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is i= t >>> written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've >>> programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But someon= e >>> who >>> knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an >>> inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug >>> report >>> would be futile. >>> >>> Food for thought. Thanks, >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g >> " >> >> --=20 ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 02:43:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1345106567D for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 02:43:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6758FC24 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 02:43:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from flosoft.no-ip.biz (ool-435559b8.dyn.optonline.net [67.85.89.184]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0K3E00DAXRIFYYY0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from flosoft.no-ip.biz (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by flosoft.no-ip.biz (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m632DNmo016583; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:13:24 -0400 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:13:23 -0400 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <486C35C3.9070205@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080607) Subject: setting up a local cvsup server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 02:43:29 -0000 Currently I keep a local cvs/svn mirror of the public repo.... I update my sources via cvs not c(v)sup... I just got a laptop and I want it to use my desktop (where the local repo is) as a cvsup server.... what do I need to do (I manually update my local repo and want to continue with that practice so no need for cvsup-mirror or the method suggested in development(8)).... advice? -- Aryeh M. Friedman, FloSoft Systems http://www.flosoft-systems.com Java developer, unit testing, and operatring system development "Free Software != Free Beer" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 03:36:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588FC106566C; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 03:36:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from millenia2000@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.205]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E6F8FC18; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 03:36:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from millenia2000@hotmail.com) Received: from BAY126-DS5 ([65.55.131.32]) by bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:36:15 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [69.243.62.194] X-Originating-Email: [millenia2000@hotmail.com] Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <784966050807021659h5ba54a2dy9093f6e1ab76f297@mail.gmail.com> From: "Sean Cavanaugh" To: "Rob Lytle" , , X-Unsent: 1 References: <784966050807021659h5ba54a2dy9093f6e1ab76f297@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:36:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2008 03:36:15.0920 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2B90300:01C8DCBD] Cc: Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / thanks for responding X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:36:16 -0000 From: Rob Lytle Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:59 PM To: Sean Cavanaugh ; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org ; freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / thanks for responding Thanks Sean, This is the first time I ever actually downloaded all 3 CD's so i didn't know what I was getting into. I had always just used the first CD for the initial install, then ports for everything else. Next time I will use the dvd. Actually that would have been perfect as I got one of those unusual 550kB/s connections from ftp, lol. But I decided this time to get as many packages as quickly as possible, then run portupgrade on them to get the latest versions. I just did a make buildworld and made the kernel. Now I'm waiting here to do the make installworld after I go shopping. Plus its so hot here in Oregon I have to put the fan on my Sony VAIO SZ460N/C laptop. Its small but overheats, esp when using the NVidea graphics, so I use the i810 instead. I'm having problems with portupgrade though. Something got screwed up so a bunch of package compiles are failing. Most all of KDE is in there but it wont start and doesn't even give error messages, even when started with the console. In contrast Windowmaker works fine, so that is what I'm using now. I got another copy of ports.tar.gz as perhaps the old copy was corrupted, so after world gets installed, I will try portupgrade again. Sincerely, Rob try 'portsnap'. it will maintain your /usr/ports folder for you. or use 'cvsup' on it. there are much better ways to maintain your ports folder without resorting to downloading the hideous ports.tar.gz file and extracting it. You also might want to remove and reinstall kde if its screwing up for you -Sean From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 04:28:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02B41065680 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:28:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2F98FC1D for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:28:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so584235wfg.7 for ; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:28:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=5FYmb6FpJrW33RLdNycoPMnYk3NbISYiEnsVM61slXU=; b=XCZowAUwwG+FyMsGQasoNV1e3g78b3wwhjA47adXL7XdgHjaDRut0qszxssTzKxo08 hoFI6jp3HQ2rajv+cRH2GcB5h+1xTKoA4njHIejj4tHG8J9+O4ulxiUkuptRtUWB7U5S NT+zGSOh8LGwccmyBaRgbaMdfk/1nxBEwNSuI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=YcTehupnCtLcK4ZZNXcYvax62wandn/OwVjo5vfFf2KZPbLYKYNF7GbZ1//3ZtLg2D EDy7GPMOwiEv6eoOI4CwHp7aGA9/XC5y5CPi/WYeP1QmgcqiCS+3O0JB2lHor/yjfsOh /w0+vEWRNnHL2lV4ZWpGal8PK0pItbx7pEVFc= Received: by 10.142.221.19 with SMTP id t19mr3382409wfg.235.1215059330638; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.20 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" To: "Mike Meyer" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:04:45 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 04:28:51 -0000 Hi All, I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD install existed, but will do that next time. 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a dependency is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install gigantic packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one hell of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for FreeBSD 10.0. Sincerely, Rob On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:16:27 -0700 > Curtis Penner wrote: > > > BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. > > I disagree, but that's another debate. BSD is still my desktop OS of > choice. > > > So what is wrong? > > > > It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > > users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are tech > > savvy. > > Huh? The ports collection has nearly 19 thousand entries in it. Is > there another OS with *anything* like that? The blastwave folks were > recently bragging that they were going to hit 1800! > > Yeah, if you want *proprietary* tools, you lose. As far as I can tell, > that kills you on three issues: Flash, high-end graphics performance, > and virtualization tools. For pretty much everything else I've run > into, we seem to do ok. > > > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > > front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > > savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > > variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > > package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > > these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > > initial install. > > I find this to be the case on *every* system. I've never managed to > find a system that provided *everything* I needed in an install. So I > inevitably wind up wading through a see of repositories and > dependencies to get what I need. For GNU/Linux, that usually means > installing the tools I need to *build* what I actually > need. Tedious and unnecessary would be a step *up*. > > > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop > > on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All the > > development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, NetBean, > > Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You feel like a > > rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't work. That is > > such a turn off. > > Ok, I don't do Java (because I like OO programming and want to keep it > that way!), but I found three of the four things in the ports tree > (assuming that Sturts is actually Struts, anyway). Which means the > packages should be there as well. > > > As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > > at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You don't > > have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) > > I'm not sure the best out of the box is Apple, but I haven't installed > new Sun hardware in a *long* time. But Apple boxes come out of the box > installed - that's hard to beat. > > As for GNU/Linux, the only install that comes close to installing a > usable system is Gentoo. The other all seem to want to compete with > windows, and treat their users like idiots who need every choice made > for them. > > > I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > > and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there is > > little in common with the rest. > > Hmm. Which Solaris did you use? SXCE b89 looks an awful lot like a > FreeBSD install, except they do it under X with a GUI (so you need > 3/4ths of a gig just to run the installer) - including progress > messages to an xterm - instead of the console. 2008.05 looks amazingly > like a GNU/Linux install - all pointy/clicky, no choices about what > you want, you get 3 gig of lawn ornaments which I personally had no > use for on the server in question (which is how I came to learn what > an SXCE install looks like). Not to mention that after being > installed, it's slower than Vista even when it's got more than twice > the horsepower underneath it. > > > Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > > installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > > laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > > getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and distribute > BSD. > > I believe we already have a bigger, better application repository than > any other current Unix or Unix-like system. However, I can't find hard > numbers for rpm or deb-based distributions repositories. But "rpms" or > "debs" found scattered around the net aren't a "repository"; they > won't work except against what they were build against, and trying to > get them to is a *real* recipe for frustration. > > > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > > advance and do special custom work). > > Is it really that simple? If we had an installer that looked as pretty > as a van gogh, and all you had to do was enter your country and postal > code and it then installed the base system, you wouldn't be happy (I > certainly wouldn't mind such a thing)? > > I suspect that what you *really* want - and what the GNU/Linux > distros, and Solaris 2008.05, and OSX try to provide - is a system > with everything you want pre-installed, without you having to figure > it out how to use a package system or anything else that looks the > least bit like work. > > Personally, no single system can do that for me. What I want on my > desktop is different from what pretty much anyone else wants on their > desktop is different from what I want on a router is different from > what I want on a mail server is different from what I want on a web > server is different from what I want on try-python.mired.org. Things > that I can't do without on some are things that ask to be pwn'ed on > others, and in some cases I want the same functionality from different > tools on different systems. > > I don't care how familiar you are with a system, it's *far* easier to > add the things you know you want to a solid base than it is to remove > crap that will cause you headaches later from a distro whose design > criteria was maximizing installations, hence checking off as many > features on a checklist as possible. On a desktop box, unneeded tools > are just a waste of space; on a server, they can be an open invitation > to pwn your server. > > That said - yeah, our installer is old and primitive. But it'll run on > almost nothing (3/4ths of a GIG just to run the > INSTALLER!?!?!?). There are people working on improving it, but > frankly, the needed improvements are largely cosmetic, not > conceptual. Any replacement for the installer should require less work > but not less smarts. It needs to ask questions, because the correct > answer to every general question about what to install is "it depends > on what you want it for." > > For people who just want to muck about with a desktop, there are a > couple of FreeBSD distributions with live CD's and a plethora of > applications installed, etc. That's the right way to go about > attracting an audience from the desktop. > > FreeBSD is the easiest system I know of to tailor to my needs. So long > as that remains true, it will remain my OS of choice. > > -- > Mike Meyer > http://www.mired.org/consulting.html > Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org > -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 06:44:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0451106564A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:44:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 514FA8FC0C for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:44:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from kobe.laptop (adsl97-104.kln.forthnet.gr [77.49.104.104]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-4) with ESMTP id m636iLe0009819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:44:27 +0300 Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m636iLxb017982; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:44:21 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m636iKhs017981; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:44:20 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) From: Giorgos Keramidas To: "Rob Lytle" References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:44:20 +0300 In-Reply-To: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> (Rob Lytle's message of "Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700") Message-ID: <87bq1fbh6j.fsf@kobe.laptop> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-MailScanner-ID: m636iLe0009819 X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-3.754, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.65, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr X-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:44:33 -0000 On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700, "Rob Lytle" wrote: > 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a > dependency is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to > install gigantic packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE > metapackage, and my notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or > thereabout. That is one hell of a long compile time. For this > request I will just have to wait for FreeBSD 10.0. Crashing is a bug. We should fix that. Having said this, I often use portupgrade for this sort of thing. After mounting the DVD, you can see what would be installed with # mount /cdrom # env PKG_PATH=/cdrom/packages/All portupgrade -n -N -PP postfix and then you can actually *run* the installation by removing the `-n' option from the portupgrade run. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 08:28:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4300B1065674; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:28:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F68A8FC13; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:28:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0662146B03; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:28:30 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Lothar Braun In-Reply-To: <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> Message-ID: <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:28:33 -0000 On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote: > Robert Watson wrote: > >> My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects is >> that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I actually >> couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually hurt my >> configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what I do want is a >> very tight and efficient install process, which I feel sysinstall does >> badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). > > Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look like in your > opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in systinstall? For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of customization during the install -- I configure machines using DHCP, I add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts since my servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem "reasonable". I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not to enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means that I find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't want sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in the handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different libdialog interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and express installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a box installed in <5m including actual time to write out the file systems, which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new installer :-). Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 08:35:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5EE1065677 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:35:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan+freebsd-hackers@hst.org.za) Received: from hermes.hst.org.za (onix.hst.org.za [209.203.2.133]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737548FC19 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:35:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan+freebsd-hackers@hst.org.za) Received: from sysadmin.hst.org.za (sysadmin.int.dbn.hst.org.za [10.1.1.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by hermes.hst.org.za (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m637vm26084953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:57:48 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from jonathan+freebsd-hackers@hst.org.za) From: Jonathan McKeown Organization: Health Systems Trust To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-UID: 2376 X-Length: 4695 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:00:11 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200807031000.11707.jonathan+freebsd-hackers@hst.org.za> X-Spam-Score: -4.399 () ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.61 on 209.203.2.133 Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:35:14 -0000 I've picked out one or two of your complaints only. On Thursday 03 July 2008 00:16, Curtis Penner wrote: > Let us take this further. > > Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux > is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. Really? I tried installing Kubuntu for my wife the other day. The installer didn't invite me to configure networking (Ethernet, not wireless), and once the base system was installed, I couldn't find either the appropriate option to configure it, nor any help at all, never mind anything as useful as the FreeBSD Handbook. Granted, that's partly through unfamiliarity with Linux, but user-friendly? Hollow laugh. > So what is wrong? > When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > front-end is like something from the DOS days. Some of us do most of our installs on a serial console - even in the office, it's much easier than digging out spare monitors and keyboards just to build servers which are going to run headless anyway. It's pretty much essential on a machine in a remote datacentre. PLEASE, developers of shiny happy point-and-drool installers, give us new options by all means, but don't take away my headless install! (There's at least one blind sysadmin, on this list or possibly on -questions, who I suspect would strongly agree with me). > To add wireless (very common these day), you better set aside as much time > or more as doing the initial install. That was certainly true on the Kubuntu installation I did for my wife - I never did work out which packages I needed to download from where. On my FreeBSD 6.3 laptop, I put the network details in /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf. That's it. The drivers are part of the GENERIC kernel, and it all Just Works. I can start it manually by running wpa_supplicant followed by dhclient - I could just add a single line to /etc/rc.conf which would do that for me automatically. On a FreeBSD6 desktop/server, I put the network details in /etc/hostapd.conf, a couple of lines in /etc/rc.conf (enabling hostapd, and bridging the wireless card and the NIC), and loaded wlan_xauth in /boot/loader.conf (to get WPA), and had an access point. If that took anywhere near as long as the initial install that just shows how fast the initial install must have been! > Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would develop > on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. The problem with Java is that until recently, Sun wouldn't give the FreeBSD developers a licence to distribute it, so the ports system had to send each user to Sun's website to download it, which was tedious to say the least. By doing that, Sun put enough of a speed-bump in my way that I haven't bothered with Java. Blame Sun for that, though, not FreeBSD. > I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > advance and do special custom work). It will be a nice-to-have option (and sooner rather than later: there are people actively working on it). Just bear in mind it doesn't suit everyone. Many of us run FreeBSD because its competitors don't give us the same level of control over our systems. The downside of that is that we need to understand a bit more about how it works than we need for Windows or MacOS X. By all means try and make it easier to get started with FreeBSD - but not at the expense of the level of control a skilled admin has. I didn't mention Linux as a competitor because in my view, they are battling with the same issue - at least that's what I conclude from the huge number of distros across the spectrum from point-and-click installation for recovering Windows users, to building your entire system from source. Jonathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 10:21:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E61821065670 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:21:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gary.jennejohn@freenet.de) Received: from mout4.freenet.de (mout4.freenet.de [IPv6:2001:748:100:40::2:6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7942B8FC1C for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:21:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gary.jennejohn@freenet.de) Received: from [195.4.92.16] (helo=6.mx.freenet.de) by mout4.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID gary.jennejohn@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.69 #19) id 1KELwk-0003Ft-4K; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:21:50 +0200 Received: from ma633.m.pppool.de ([89.49.166.51]:20277 helo=peedub.jennejohn.org) by 6.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID gary.jennejohn@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.69 #12) id 1KELwj-00084P-ST; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:21:50 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:21:49 +0200 From: Gary Jennejohn To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" Message-ID: <20080703122149.0b245865@peedub.jennejohn.org> In-Reply-To: <486C35C3.9070205@gmail.com> References: <486C35C3.9070205@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.10.14; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: setting up a local cvsup server X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: gary.jennejohn@freenet.de List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:21:52 -0000 On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:13:23 -0400 "Aryeh M. Friedman" wrote: > Currently I keep a local cvs/svn mirror of the public repo.... I update > my sources via cvs not c(v)sup... I just got a laptop and I want it to > use my desktop (where the local repo is) as a cvsup server.... what do I > need to do (I manually update my local repo and want to continue with > that practice so no need for cvsup-mirror or the method suggested in > development(8)).... advice? > Actually it's no big deal to keep your CVS repository up-to-date with cvsup and in my experience it's the simplest way to do it. Anyway, in my experience here are the two most important things needed on the server: 1) you _absolutely must_ have these symbolic links set correctly! garyj:peedub:~:-bash:10> ll /usr/local/etc/cvsup/prefixes/ total 0 lrwx------ 1 root wheel 8 May 16 2007 FreeBSD-crypto.cvs -> /u2/ncvs lrwx------ 1 root wheel 8 May 16 2007 FreeBSD.cvs -> /u2/ncvs 2) then just start cvsupd with reasonable command line options. I use -C 2. Then just create supfiles on the client and point them at your server. It's really rather trivial. --- Gary Jennejohn From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 08:23:09 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B998A106568E; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:23:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lothar@lobraun.de) Received: from smtp.cs.uni-tuebingen.de (u-173-c156.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.173.156]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EC08FC19; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:23:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lothar@lobraun.de) Received: from u-172-c158.cs.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.172.158]) by smtp.cs.uni-tuebingen.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KEJjS-0000Bm-Js; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:59:58 +0200 Message-ID: <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:00:00 +0200 From: Lothar Braun User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rwatson@FreeBSD.org References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:28:41 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:23:09 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: > My > primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects is > that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I > actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually hurt > my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what I do > want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I feel > sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look like in your opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in systinstall? Regards, Lothar From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 09:07:09 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703811065678; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:07:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hk@alogis.com) Received: from alogis.com (firewall.solit-ag.de [212.184.102.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A424F8FC1F; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:07:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hk@alogis.com) Received: from alogis.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alogis.com (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m638uToj002250; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:56:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hk@alogis.com) Received: (from hk@localhost) by alogis.com (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id m638uTpp002249; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:56:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hk) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:56:29 +0200 From: Holger Kipp To: Antoine BRUNEL Message-ID: <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:28:57 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jan6146@gmail.com, Curtis Penner Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:07:09 -0000 Dear Antoine Brunel, I completely 100% agree. Actually I don't see the need for a new sysinstall. It does what it needs to do. I have seen the later RH- and SUSE-Installer, but I don't want them. What's the use of a graphical installer? The only thing endusers might need is the choice of installing all required packages for a Workstation (like X, OpenOffice, KDE with all the whistles (or GNOME if you like), Firefox, etc.). There is a metaport for this already available (or was some time ago), but I have never used it. Usually installation of FreeBSD (for me) is a server installation, so I don't need X or any of the other packages. So from my point of view: - if you think the default sysinstall software needs some improvements, go for it. Apart from fixing real bugs I don't see much need to change this. - don't make a graphical sysinstall thing - at least not as default. it would hurt all sysadmins that install anything remotely. It reminds me of the oracle installer translation from text-based to gui-based (a nightmare if you're not in the same lan). - if you have only one system to install, changing CDs is not a big deal. for current hardware, use a DVD. for mass installations, use fileserver installation (that's what I did, anyway). I am more than happy with sysinstall, have used it for years (starting with 2.2.8 actually) and don't want to see a colorful chingeling whistleblowing hard-to-maintain suitable for all graphics card gui installer. If you need something like this, use PC-BSD, MacOS X or even MS Windows or Linux, I say. That about my useless/worthless (or maybe 2cents) contribution Best regards, Holger Kipp On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 01:03:04AM +0200, Antoine BRUNEL wrote: > I complete what Curtis wrote... > > How many times do you have to install a BSD system ??? even in case of > hell, you can still remove every ports/ package, juste leaving the CSH > and kernel layer, then install what you need again... try to remove the > "glibc" package from Linux (an Howto exists), and enjoy.... > > Compared to Windows / Linux (RedHat or Suse distributions), BSD still > offers a way to finely tune your system depending on your needs, instead > of putting gigabyte software in place, "just in case of", with tons of > windows managers, productivity tools, etc... > > BSD are still "harder" systems compared to other, but with more control > on what happens.... > > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing > a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by > "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / > Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > So, just another useless contribution..... > > > Curtis Penner a écrit : > >Let us take this further. > > > >Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, > >Linux is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user. > > > >BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The > >size to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the > >system it is rock steady and only getting better. The documentation > >is outstanding. It is what others should look to. > > > >So what is wrong? > > > >It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why? Not enough > >users. Why? Because it is hard to get what you want unless you are > >tech savvy. > > > >When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The > >front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech > >savvy to know what you want to do. You have to search out all the > >variations of the applications (tedious and unnecessary) to get a full > >package -- Examples: Postgres, PHP, etc. To add wireless (very common > >these day), you better set aside as much time or more as doing the > >initial install. > > > >Given that the system is rock solid, you think more people would > >develop on it, at least secondarily. But no. Java - go fish. All > >the development environments and features that go with it (Eclipse, > >NetBean, Hibernation, Sturts, and so forth) are painful to get. You > >feel like a rabbit jumping around, and then it most likely doesn't > >work. That is such a turn off. > > > >As for the installs, to get an idea of how to package an install, look > >at the current install packages that are from the Linux side. You > >don't have to copy, but emulate. (Oh, the best out-of-the-box is Apple.) > > > >I have installed Linux, MacOS, HPUX, Solaris, Window (NT, XP, Vista), > >and the BSDs, and I have found the BSDs to be so yesterday that there > >is little in common with the rest. > > > >Porting, so that applications that matter go native, we need more > >installs and more people on the systems. That means more installs to > >laptops. The installs have to be seamless and complete. That mean > >getting more Open Source people and companies to compile and > >distribute BSD. > > > >I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click > >with not much understanding of what is going on (unless I want to go > >advance and do special custom work). > > > > > >-Curtis > > > > > >Rob Lytle wrote: > >>Hi All, > >> > >>My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > >> > >>1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an > >>incredibly > >>tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 > >>times. > >>If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages > >>after > >>obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and > >>almost > >>like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > >>reboots. > >> > >>2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already > >>there , > >>the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to > >>press > >>OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. > >> > >>I think the CD switching problem would be to install all the packages at > >>once from CD1, then CD2, then CD3. As for the second case, I don't know > >>enough about the infrastructure to suggest any thing except to perhaps > >>comment that code in its entirety or put in switch to bypass already > >>installed dependencies. > >> > >>I wish I knew more about your infrastructure to fix this myself. Is it > >>written in Python? Thats the only language I'm not so rusty at. I've > >>programmed in 5 languages, but that was long ago. I'm old. But > >>someone who > >>knows the system could probably fix it fast. I think this is such an > >>inherent infrastructure problem that has existed so long that a bug > >>report > >>would be futile. > >> > >>Food for thought. Thanks, > >> > >>Rob > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to > >"freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 09:53:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0D6D1065677 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:53:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2455E8FC12 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:53:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id m639X7xj009769 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:33:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 164 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B19237190 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:33:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 987A130; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:33:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:33:06 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080703093306.GA14469@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.164]); Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:33:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93/7417/Tue Jun 10 03:14:29 2008 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at jchkmail2.jussieu.fr with ID 486C80B5.00B by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 486C80B5.00B/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 486C80B5.00B on jchkmail2.jussieu.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.040 -> S=0.040 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:29:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:53:47 -0000 Antoine BRUNEL wrote: > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing > a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by > "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows / > Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > > So, just another useless contribution..... Useless ... for you. Conversely, for me it is your drivel which is useless, and much worse harmful. The "full control" you are advocating is totally useless for almost everybody. On the other hand, while even well known FreeBSD developers concede that there are problems in the present installation (*) and packaging tools, and it is clear that these problems are harming FreeBSD adoption, there is a group of users, whose relative importance i don't know, but who are very vocal, and whose aim is to preserve the statu quo. What is lacking for FreeBSD is some sort of Ubuntu, which has built a great success on the solid basis of Debian, but working around the conservatism of the Debian nomenklatura. Maybe pcbsd will do the same, but is is not obvious at present. (*) even the author of said tools wrote from the beginning that these tools were quick hacks, not really adequate. The situation is much worse now, since the installation tool knows nothing about modern FreeBSD features, such as geom mirror, etc. , while the packaging tools, which worked OK with 5000 ports, show their limits with 18000 ports. -- Michel TALON From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 11:34:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E8BD1065671 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:34:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail-gw2.york.ac.uk (mail-gw2.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA33B8FC0C for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:34:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail-gw7.york.ac.uk (mail-gw7.york.ac.uk [144.32.129.30]) by mail-gw2.york.ac.uk (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m63B13xJ012047; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:01:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from buffy-128.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.160] helo=buffy.york.ac.uk) by mail-gw7.york.ac.uk with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KEMYh-0006mA-1Y; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:01:03 +0100 Received: from buffy.york.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by buffy.york.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m63B12SE032678; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:01:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from ga9@localhost) by buffy.york.ac.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m63B12Mm032677; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:01:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from gavin@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: buffy.york.ac.uk: ga9 set sender to gavin@FreeBSD.org using -f From: Gavin Atkinson To: Rob Lytle In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:01:02 +0100 Message-Id: <1215082862.32135.4.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.2 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-York-MailScanner-From: gavin@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:34:36 -0000 On Wed, 2008-07-02 at 11:23 -0700, Rob Lytle wrote: > Hi All, > > My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998. > > 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly > tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times. > If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after > obtaining the 7.0 release CD's, ad then install. Its frustrating and almost > like Windows, except its a bit faster as replacing CD's is faster than > reboots. There's been a few reports of this (see e.g. PR misc/123632), but I've tried recreating it myself without much success. Do you happen to know roughly which packages you installed? I'd really like to fix it, but I need to be able to recreate it first... > 2. When installing any given package, if a dependency is already there , > the package aborts and then goes though some loop where you have to press > OK half a dozen times. Thats insane. I've not seen this either, but I'll see if I can recreate it in a couple of days. Do you happen to know if there is a PR about this issue? If not, is there any chance you could submit one with more details of the error messages? Thanks, Gaivn From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 11:39:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249DD106567A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:39:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from V.Rezkii@sam-solutions.net) Received: from c71.sam-solutions.net (c71.sam-solutions.net [217.21.35.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4E48FC26 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:39:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from V.Rezkii@sam-solutions.net) Received: from pc636.sam-solutions.net ([192.168.117.46]) by c71.sam-solutions.net over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:27:26 +0300 From: Uladzislau Rezki Organization: SS To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:28:02 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2008 11:27:26.0768 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5761300:01C8DCFF] Subject: how can i get a file name knowing its descriptor? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:39:41 -0000 Hi all, I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the character device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its descriptor? static int xxx_write (struct proc *p, struct write_args *uap) { struct vnode *vn; struct file *file; int sys_error; /* do system call */ sys_error = write(p, uap); if (sys_error != 0) goto leave_call; /* get the file */ file = curproc->p_fd->fd_ofiles[uap->fd]; /* get the vnode */ vn = (struct vnode *) file->f_data; /* do we have a regular */ if (vn->v_type == VREG) { ... ... ... } As you can see we just know uap->fd. Thanks. -- Uladzislau Rezki From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 11:35:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7D31065678 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:35:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from urezki@gmail.com) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B4A8FC29 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from urezki@gmail.com) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k31so583246fkk.11 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 04:34:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=BSCfcAt1P7bCoyWkqmXj4epy64YPR2d5OwApfm5HzTE=; b=Ifz9bFyMH6pb83azo0Wdjw0pJ2I2PM3r8/8GMBt/TQtPE7qy+bAqoPLL1bDg8x09xB YQ3Pa/LkEpZnp+UsMPAQpPJWu8bobe+drfUW0B2PbvEttYLOgVbtWusHIf5rnfdMqRGA +WMIPxfx+16z//1N48NT71qAPk57w9UY83xQ0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=SRRS/1IMoyiG45QdbfEgDPrXVOgJHPv0isi10vM6rkR65NiZ0hzgeOBGaU4SLGl0fL Vmx+gtGRkvIDHvrvGmY3py6KiEXzzPmqdXxrzwKPFFyuUQcwHOdD5pRvBx3booe5mOD6 rMhQMjUy62rKZDVlXfJGK4LRt1pSxxb3SsFm0= Received: by 10.86.94.11 with SMTP id r11mr113436fgb.0.1215083292572; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 04:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.49.9 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:08:12 +0300 From: "Uladzislau Rezki" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:40:05 +0000 Subject: how can i get file name knowing its descriptor? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:35:01 -0000 Hi all, I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the character device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its descriptor? static int xxx_write (struct proc *p, struct write_args *uap) { struct vnode *vn; struct file *file; int sys_error; /* do system call */ sys_error = write(p, uap); if (sys_error != 0) goto leave_call; /* get the file */ file = curproc->p_fd->fd_ofiles[uap->fd]; /* get the vnode */ vn = (struct vnode *) file->f_data; /* do we have a regular */ if (vn->v_type == VREG) { ... ... ... } As you can see we just know uap->fd. BTW, it would be fine to get a few web resources concerning FreeBSD kernel programming. Thanks. -- Uladzislau Rezki From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 11:47:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847D81065677 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:47:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karimulla@krify.com) Received: from omta0103.mta.everyone.net (imta-38.everyone.net [216.200.145.38]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688788FC14 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:47:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karimulla@krify.com) Received: from dm23.mta.everyone.net (sj1-slb03-gw2 [172.16.1.96]) by omta0103.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42DE93C7DC0 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:47:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm23 Received: by resin11.mta.everyone.net (EON-PICKUP) id resin11.4861a1b2.5a071; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:47:23 -0700 Message-Id: <20080703044723.BD564B69@resin11.mta.everyone.net> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 04:47:23 -0700 From: "karim sk" To: X-Eon-Sig: AQKKlONIbLxLyDK3mgEAAAAB,9af41949a65b7cf83e9f0d3eeb92e1b2 X-Originating-Ip: [203.145.174.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: kgdb error: Ignoring packet error, continuing.... X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: karimulla@krify.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:47:24 -0000 Hi, I am trying to setup kgdb on serial console in freebsd. I have done the following steps. 1. Compile the kernel with the following options options DDB options KDB makeoptions DEBUG-g 2.Installed the kernel on the target machine. 3. Transferred the kernel.debug to host machine. 4. Modified the file /boot/device.hints in the target machine to have sio flags as hint.sio.0.at="isa" hint.sio.0.port="0X3F8" hint.sio.0.flags="0x80" hint.sio.0.irq="4" 5. Reboot the target machine. At the loader prompt type the following set comconsole_speed=9600 boot -d Then the target machine stops at ddb> prompt. 6.In the host machine type the following at kgdb prompt kgdb> set remotebaud 9600 kgdb> file kernel.debug kgdb> target remote /dev/cuad0 This is not able to establish the connection. It is giving following errors. Ignoring packet error, continuing... Ignoring packet error, continuing... Couldn't establish connection to remote target. Malformed response to offset query, timeout. Can any body tell why packet error is coming when kgdb is trying to establish the connection. Thanks in advance. Karim _________________________________________________________________ I use Krify Mail - http://mail.krify.com Get yourmail at Krify today! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 12:21:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948451065670 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:21:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from cs1.cs.huji.ac.il (cs1.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 469E48FC28 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:21:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32]) by cs1.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1KENoI-000Afj-Rq for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:21:14 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.2 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:21:14 +0300 From: Danny Braniss Message-ID: Subject: serial console speed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:21:16 -0000 it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always stays at the kernel configured speed. is this by design? danny From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 13:11:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE471065680 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:11:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: from yx-out-2324.google.com (yx-out-2324.google.com [74.125.44.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 452AB8FC22 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:11:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tevans.uk@googlemail.com) Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so210736yxb.13 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:10:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer; bh=oLoO5ewbV6wgD8NHMkUKFKbIQcDRnEd7yqoMugFXfyY=; b=Lo9FqN4Bkb+b3UMdHLEgZbdydpPYNJot3Ld3nVan0zDPo/DbdMO4U/GwD/kf4WLnLV /XB1v5YslDlom5HcYh3uhxewcXl5SfoVYO4SoL0A7lJIq+wdkbGBv0NjVGHtlajlkiJr mqmrnnZ6mSRbRKNckwm9V5ZhCaFwhBZPUNFAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; b=D/AU+XGyvBOJDy2R9lnWg4EBMCchhOFsQCqEo18dsWLuRzEOKuO+8QY0y60HsbXWTG cvRiJmW61LlbZTCr8O0NEv6pcBup3SKLenBwBslaMHft9NzdUcoGxCM0e46KdCaZr1er pwA0TJktG5smO3XmeJdmbx9XRVs1GqePBFHp8= Received: by 10.114.135.1 with SMTP id i1mr185456wad.5.1215088991031; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?127.0.0.1? ( [217.206.187.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j8sm156131gvb.1.2008.07.03.05.42.37 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:43:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Evans To: Michel Talon In-Reply-To: <20080703093306.GA14469@lpthe.jussieu.fr> References: <20080703093306.GA14469@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-O4kKBIkGCy0fxG8N2ICb" Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:42:34 +0100 Message-Id: <1215088954.35536.38.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:11:00 -0000 --=-O4kKBIkGCy0fxG8N2ICb Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 11:33 +0200, Michel Talon wrote: > Antoine BRUNEL wrote: >=20 > > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit=20 > > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installin= g=20 > > a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by=20 > > "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replaced Windows /=20 > > Debian to FreeBSD: having a full control on my system. > >=20 > > So, just another useless contribution..... >=20 >=20 > Useless ... for you. Conversely, for me it is your drivel which is > useless, and much worse harmful. The "full control" you are advocating=20 > is totally useless for almost everybody.=20 I disagree. Having never used FreeBSD, or any other BSD, I could install simply and quickly using sysinstall and the FreeBSD users handbook. Think it took about 1 hr total from install to gnome. Everything else I've wanted to do so far, and everything I'm planning to do (gmirror'd base, zfs for storage) has good documentation.=20 > On the other hand, while > even well known FreeBSD developers concede that there are problems in > the present installation (*) and packaging tools, and it is clear that > these problems are harming FreeBSD adoption, there is a group of users, > whose relative importance i don't know, but who are very vocal, and > whose aim is to preserve the statu quo. What is lacking for FreeBSD is > some sort of Ubuntu, which has built a great success on the solid basis > of Debian, but working around the conservatism of the Debian > nomenklatura. Maybe pcbsd will do the same, but is is not obvious at > present. That might be great, but I'd really prefer that the current system of introducing well documented new features continues, rather than expend a lot of effort producing tools that people who won't/don't read documentation can use to administer their system without having a clue what they are doing.=20 =46rom the base of FreeBSD, I want commands like atacontrol, with excellent documentation. I don't want FreeNAS, or something like Windows Disk Management.=20 > (*) even the author of said tools wrote from the beginning that these > tools were quick hacks, not really adequate. The situation is much worse > now, since the installation tool knows nothing about modern FreeBSD > features, such as geom mirror, etc. , while the packaging tools, which > worked OK with 5000 ports, show their limits with 18000 ports. Ports WFM. When I need a new port, I go install it. When I want to upgrade ports, I cvs up, and portupgrade. Every now and then I do a pkg_cutleaves to make sure only ports I still need are installed. I will probably get accused of an elitist attitude, but if one doesn't want to read and learn from lots of documentation, FreeBSD probably isn't the right choice. Personally, there's nothing that would make me want to use Linux/Windows (and unless a great deal has changed over the past 3 years, I doubt Linux is actually that user friendly. It probably doesn't confuse as much, due to the fancy idiot tools.) Tom --=-O4kKBIkGCy0fxG8N2ICb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEABECAAYFAkhsyTcACgkQlcRvFfyds/eInwCcD9vJGKvSNpZF38BgKBi0KCSG tW8AnR9h6Mtfyh5dlaWD8fTkAmoShYYD =oQIf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-O4kKBIkGCy0fxG8N2ICb-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 13:15:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F36C1065670 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:15:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap00@mail.ru) Received: from mx0.awanti.com (mx0.awanti.com [91.190.112.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544AA8FC16 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:15:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap00@mail.ru) Received: from pstation (unknown [10.28.4.14]) by mx0.awanti.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E6A4C09D; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:54:34 +0400 (MSD) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:57:53 +0400 From: Anthony Pankov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.51) Personal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1761178093.20080703165753@mail.ru> To: Stef In-Reply-To: <20080630231611.F0245F1817C@mx.npubs.com> References: <20080615112318.146C1F18512@mx.npubs.com> <200806180917.05689.jhb@freebsd.org> <20080630231611.F0245F1817C@mx.npubs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re[2]: FreeBSD 6.3 deadlock (vm_map?) with DDB output X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Anthony Pankov List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:15:30 -0000 S> I changed the patch slightly to work with FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE. That's S> attached, in case anyone needs this later. Can i apply this patch to 6.2-RELEASE? -- Best regards, Anthony mailto:ap00@mail.ru From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 13:16:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D8B1065673 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:16:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vladimirt@PartyGaming.com) Received: from mx1.corp.idatanet.com (mx1.corp.idatanet.com [85.115.136.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F6E8FC25 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:16:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vladimirt@PartyGaming.com) Received: from gibsvwin008.partygaming.local ([10.3.10.32]) by mx1.corp.idatanet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:58:45 +0200 Received: from GIBSVWIN004X.partygaming.local ([10.3.10.228]) by gibsvwin008.partygaming.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:58:47 +0200 Received: from SOFSVWIN004X.partygaming.local ([10.4.10.229]) by GIBSVWIN004X.partygaming.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:58:47 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:58:45 +0300 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: List test. Please IGNORE! Thread-Index: AcjdDIbU8AU9hJUBRzOnNBY/aQmuBw== From: "Vladimir Terziev" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2008 12:58:47.0166 (UTC) FILETIME=[880871E0:01C8DD0C] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: List test. Please IGNORE! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:16:03 -0000 List test. Please IGNORE! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 13:28:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0AD8106564A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:28:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BB58FC0A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:28:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B33851CC074; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:28:56 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Danny Braniss Message-ID: <20080703132856.GA53637@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: serial console speed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:28:57 -0000 On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 03:21:14PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial > console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running > tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always > stays at the kernel configured speed. > > is this by design? Yes. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 14:34:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCA3106567D for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:34:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from cs1.cs.huji.ac.il (cs1.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F178FC0A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:34:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32]) by cs1.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1KEPtD-000CBH-SI; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:34:27 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.2 To: Jeremy Chadwick In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:28:56 -0700 . Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:34:27 +0300 From: Danny Braniss Message-ID: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: serial console speed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:34:29 -0000 > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 03:21:14PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial > > console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running > > tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always > > stays at the kernel configured speed. > > > > is this by design? > > Yes. why? to add some more 'issues', setting hint.sio.1.flags="0x10" does the redirection correctly but does not fix the speed to CONSPEED, and stays at 9600. (BTW, this used to work). is this by design too? :-) I am NOT trying to start any flame here, just that setting the serial console correctly is getting more difficult with each upgrade. setting the serial speed means, compiling correctly btx, pxeboot, kernel, ilo. now it seems that any info in /boot.config or /boot/loader.conf is also ignored. danny danny From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 14:52:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9D6106564A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:52:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8C98FC0C for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:52:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so315260nfh.33 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:52:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=lDdPmv71kTLIJsVtQjvlyjxmUNBu68WUX/UjA5lYzIg=; b=OsoovSaLxmGpcS3BJ1EkwzIfbtKRGMdY1MDuTRH6Y6k3S/+RRdH/BX3UPfigXcJTeb wk+guXitouY6Ep+0jtfKwZEppJdX15ZOb8eus1Qrzq6+R3KKMFTmZ1Xf7hLrQikYKUrT 2ef0opLjppdeZbcpb2DHKPcWqtf7qh2U2f57Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=lW7Foid3xI+pmEiLQFy5kV7/AVpI2Wb6WthNd8Zd/WJW2ETXM74xeMip6cfDbHm50u QqLLs3fontC+3z1ehM/mIRFeScJHd6PaT3ztd1l3+5M/+i6RNMHE2C9PVmx+JA40e0TN rtDapBMIPnnfqIs9uZEX0K5d+8huAchr9uYEM= Received: by 10.210.137.14 with SMTP id k14mr15538ebd.162.1215096732743; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.34.1 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 07:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c0b01820807030752p212c3f17i236004c37bc39016@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:52:12 -0400 From: "Alexander Sack" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=EDa?=" In-Reply-To: <1bd550a00807020950x24af0f8n6d2a9c66f14f1cfd@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <1bd550a00807020950x24af0f8n6d2a9c66f14f1cfd@mail.gmail.com> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD 7 64 bits kernel crash debugging X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:52:14 -0000 On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Fernando Apestegu=EDa wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm experiencing several kernel crashes with the GENERIC kernel and > with custom kernels as well. One of my MP3 players seems to be > recognized, but if I disconnect it from the USB port (even without > mounting the device), I got a kernel crash. > > I've tried to follow the instructions at > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug.html > I have dumpdev and dumpdir properly set to my swap partition (ad0s2b) > and to /var/crash. > > However, during the next boot, I got a message that indicates it is > looking for a dump on such device but it couldn't find any. > > How can I track this error? Have you enabled at least KDB/DDB debugger support so you can look at a stack trace ("t") and post this? This will at least give us/you some idea on what is crashing... Add minimally to your kernel build conf file: options DDB options KDB Rebuild, reboot, and test. I'm not sure why a crash dump is not working. Have you tried specifying your dump device in your kernel config file? Let us know, -aps From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 15:26:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF38A1065679 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:26:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940838FC18 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:26:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED22746BA1; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:26:19 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Uladzislau Rezki In-Reply-To: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> Message-ID: <20080703162217.N43170@fledge.watson.org> References: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how can i get a file name knowing its descriptor? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:26:20 -0000 On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Uladzislau Rezki wrote: > I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about > modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the character > device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 > > So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its > descriptor? Later versions of FreeBSD include a generic routine, vn_fullpath(9), to convert a vnode reference into a pathname. It's not a particularly reliable routine, in that it depends on the name cache, but it does work in most cases. FreeBSD 4.x includes textvp_fullpath(9), which became the foundation for that routine in later versions; it generates the path to the vnode used for the text of a process, but could easily be generalized in much the same way vn_fullpath(9) has been to return the pathname for arbitrary vnodes. Be aware that pathnames are very much ephemeral in the UNIX design -- vnodes can and do have one name, no names, or many names, and generating a name for an arbitrary node wasn't part of the design requirements, so is quite difficult to do; likewise, not all file systems use the name cache well or at all. If this is just for debugging purposes, vn_fullpath(9) will do the trick, though, much of the time. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge > > static int > xxx_write (struct proc *p, struct write_args *uap) > { > struct vnode *vn; > struct file *file; > int sys_error; > > /* do system call */ > sys_error = write(p, uap); > if (sys_error != 0) > goto leave_call; > > /* get the file */ > file = curproc->p_fd->fd_ofiles[uap->fd]; > /* get the vnode */ > vn = (struct vnode *) file->f_data; > > /* do we have a regular */ > if (vn->v_type == VREG) { > ... > ... > ... > } > > As you can see we just know uap->fd. > > Thanks. > > -- > Uladzislau Rezki > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 15:33:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB9CE1065677 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:33:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1B88FC17 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:33:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8FA371CC071; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:33:29 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Danny Braniss Message-ID: <20080703153329.GA58662@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: serial console speed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:33:29 -0000 On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 05:34:27PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 03:21:14PM +0300, Danny Braniss wrote: > > > it seems that there is no way to change the speed/baudrate of the serial > > > console, for example, by turning it off in /etc/ttys, and running > > > tip(1) with different speeds has no effect, it always > > > stays at the kernel configured speed. > > > > > > is this by design? > > > > Yes. > > why? > > to add some more 'issues', setting > hint.sio.1.flags="0x10" > does the redirection correctly but does not fix the speed to CONSPEED, and > stays at 9600. (BTW, this used to work). The 9600 limitation is out-of-the-box. Despite what may seem logical, in my experiences the console serial port speed on FreeBSD is "limited" to a maximum of 9600bps unless you either use the -S flag in /boot.config (e.g. -S115200), or loader.conf variables to adjust the speed. Others will have to answer your remaining questions. > setting the serial speed means, > compiling correctly btx, pxeboot, kernel, ilo. > now it seems that any info in /boot.config or /boot/loader.conf is also > ignored. This part is flat out incorrect. You no longer have to rebuild anything, you can simply place -S115200 in /boot.config and it will work. I know, because every single one of our production servers (RELENG_6 through RELENG_7) use this. We **do not** rebuild boot blocks. Please read this document for my findings. http://jdc.parodius.com/freebsd/pxeboot_serial_install.html -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 16:00:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A656D1065676 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:00:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kientzle@freebsd.org) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.snvacaid.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6878FC1B for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:00:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kientzle@freebsd.org) Received: from [10.0.0.128] (p54.kientzle.com [66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m63FNRtv050383; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:23:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <486CEEEF.8030808@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:23:27 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060422 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Holger Kipp References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> In-Reply-To: <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jan6146@gmail.com, Curtis Penner , Antoine BRUNEL Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:00:45 -0000 Holger Kipp wrote: > > I completely 100% agree. Actually I don't see the need for a new > sysinstall. It does what it needs to do. I have seen the later > RH- and SUSE-Installer, but I don't want them. What's the use of > a graphical installer? One big problem with the current installer: The current keyboard interaction is quite mystifying to new users. I taught a FreeBSD class for a while where I watched every single person stumble just trying to figure out how to select choices in the installer menus. I don't think a graphical installer is necessarily the answer to this. Simply obeying long-established conventions for keyboard usage (ENTER selects the thing under the cursor, for instance, instead of having to TAB to the "OK" button first) would go a long ways. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 16:26:04 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2488106564A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:26:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ravi.murty@intel.com) Received: from mga09.intel.com (mga09.intel.com [134.134.136.24]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E3E8FC14 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:26:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ravi.murty@intel.com) Received: from orsmga001.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.18]) by orsmga102.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2008 01:22:57 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,742,1204531200"; d="scan'208,217";a="404935543" Received: from orsmsx334.amr.corp.intel.com (HELO orsmsx334.jf.intel.com) ([10.22.226.45]) by orsmga001.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2008 09:25:44 -0700 Received: from orsmsx416.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.226.46]) by orsmsx334.jf.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:26:03 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:26:02 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: calcru question Thread-Index: AcjdKXwgf+vwDxACRae/0MQwJmIJGQ== From: "Murty, Ravi" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2008 16:26:03.0306 (UTC) FILETIME=[7C8CD0A0:01C8DD29] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: calcru question X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:26:05 -0000 Hello All, =20 I have a rather simple question. I am running the 6.2 kernel and calru is called when top is run in a loop. One of the things calcru does is walk to threads of a process and checks if the thread is running and if it asserts that its tdoncpu field be anything but NOCPU. In our case, one in a great while, this assertion fails and the kernel panics. The assertion makes perfect sense, but I can't seem to figure out how this can be happening. The td->td_oncpu field is set to NOCPU when the thread is being kicked off a CPU (sched_switc()) which means it is not running and all of this happens with sched_lock held which calcru also grabs. =20 Thanks, Ravi =20 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 15:50:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F23C11065687 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:50:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from bsd.ultra-secure.de (bsd.ultra-secure.de [62.146.20.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39CE48FC2B for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:50:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: (qmail 76353 invoked by uid 89); 3 Jul 2008 15:23:36 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 76332, pid: 76344, t: 2.8511s scanners: attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.88.7/m:44/d:4673 spam: 3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on bsd.ultra-secure.de X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from unknown (HELO ?212.71.117.70?) (rainer@ultra-secure.de@212.71.117.70) by bsd.ultra-secure.de with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 3 Jul 2008 15:23:33 -0000 Message-ID: <486CEEF1.9040702@ultra-secure.de> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:23:29 +0200 From: Rainer Duffner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; de; rv:1.8.1.14) Gecko/20080421 SUSE/2.0.0.14-0.1 Thunderbird/2.0.0.14 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lothar Braun References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> In-Reply-To: <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:27:42 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, rwatson@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:50:19 -0000 Lothar Braun schrieb: > Robert Watson wrote: >> My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects >> is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I >> actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually >> hurt my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what >> I do want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I feel >> sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). > > Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look like > in your opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in > systinstall? > Mass-installation via PXE-booting is a mess (how can you have to pack the install.cfg file into the mfsroot diskimage???). Take a look at kickstart+cobbler from RedHat for a system with some thought behind this process. I don't care the least about GUI or not GUI. I'd like to to able to deploy them as seamlessly as the CentOS/RHEL boxes. Rainer From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 16:29:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0671065679 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:29:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from falcon.cybervisiontech.com (falcon.cybervisiontech.com [217.20.163.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47D58FC25 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:29:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.cybervisiontech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C8774400A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:09:43 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at falcon.cybervisiontech.com Received: from falcon.cybervisiontech.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (falcon.cybervisiontech.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qPe+vfDGM7eu for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:09:43 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [10.2.1.87] (voip.cybervisiontech.com.ua [91.198.50.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by falcon.cybervisiontech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D656744005 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:09:43 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:09:41 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080611) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: public svn (ro) access? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:29:34 -0000 Is there already a way for public read-only svn access to FreeBSD src repository? -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 16:35:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF28810656AE for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:35:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from lor.one-eyed-alien.net (cl-162.ewr-01.us.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:4830:1200:a1::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C658FC20 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:35:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from lor.one-eyed-alien.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lor.one-eyed-alien.net (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m63GaFHs020702; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:36:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: (from brooks@localhost) by lor.one-eyed-alien.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m63GaF3V020701; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:36:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from brooks) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:36:15 -0500 From: Brooks Davis To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20080703163615.GA20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (lor.one-eyed-alien.net [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:36:16 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: public svn (ro) access? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:35:48 -0000 --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 07:09:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: >=20 > Is there already a way for public read-only svn access to FreeBSD src > repository? svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/ -- Brooks --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFIbP/+XY6L6fI4GtQRAk+OAJwLRJoTkwipEOKsBFmXy24LdW1QlwCcCw/6 15dulVdvYrK+jWVLMc3LRX4= =OURT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 16:40:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C541065677 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from falcon.cybervisiontech.com (falcon.cybervisiontech.com [217.20.163.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8388FC1A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.cybervisiontech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840C774400A; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:40:49 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at falcon.cybervisiontech.com Received: from falcon.cybervisiontech.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (falcon.cybervisiontech.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Qj0qYQFC3eU; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:40:49 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [10.2.1.87] (voip.cybervisiontech.com.ua [91.198.50.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by falcon.cybervisiontech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BFF9744005; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:40:49 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <486D0110.8030500@icyb.net.ua> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:40:48 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080611) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brooks Davis References: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> <20080703163615.GA20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: <20080703163615.GA20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-U Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: public svn (ro) access? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:40:51 -0000 on 03/07/2008 19:36 Brooks Davis said the following: > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 07:09:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> Is there already a way for public read-only svn access to FreeBSD src >> repository? > > svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/ > Thank you! The branch/tag hierarchy organization is quite nice. What are the plans for (regional) mirrors? -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 16:56:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB598106567D; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:56:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lothar@lobraun.de) Received: from smtp.cs.uni-tuebingen.de (u-173-c156.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.173.156]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E788FC1C; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:56:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lothar@lobraun.de) Received: from u-172-c158.cs.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.172.158]) by smtp.cs.uni-tuebingen.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KES6u-0000QQ-Lj; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:56:44 +0200 Message-ID: <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:56:46 +0200 From: Lothar Braun User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:56:46 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote: > >> Robert Watson wrote: >> >>> My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects >>> is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I >>> actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually >>> hurt my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what >>> I do want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I feel >>> sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). >> >> Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look like >> in your opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in >> systinstall? > > For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic > install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of > customization during the install -- I configure machines using DHCP, I > add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts since my > servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem "reasonable". > > I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not to > enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means that I > find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't want > sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in the > handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different libdialog > interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and express > installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a box > installed in <5m including actual time to write out the file systems, > which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new installer :-). What about having two utilities for the installation process? Something like a very small (non-gui/non-X) version of "sysinstall" that just installs a base system and only has the functionality to - partition/label a disk - configure the network (if needed for installation) - install the base system (or parts of it) - install a boot manager and a second utility "sysconf" that provides the other stuff like post installation system configuration (sshd, mouse), installing packages, etc. The second utility could have an X-based GUI without disturbing the installation process of serial console users or people that don't like X on their machines. Would that be a good idea? Best regards, Lothar From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 17:10:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B261065680 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:10:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from lor.one-eyed-alien.net (cl-162.ewr-01.us.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:4830:1200:a1::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209058FC12 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:10:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from lor.one-eyed-alien.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lor.one-eyed-alien.net (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m63HAwkd021054; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:10:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from brooks@lor.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: (from brooks@localhost) by lor.one-eyed-alien.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m63HAwQK021053; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:10:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from brooks) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:10:58 -0500 From: Brooks Davis To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20080703171058.GB20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <486CF9C5.6000604@icyb.net.ua> <20080703163615.GA20685@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> <486D0110.8030500@icyb.net.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="St7VIuEGZ6dlpu13" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <486D0110.8030500@icyb.net.ua> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (lor.one-eyed-alien.net [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:10:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: public svn (ro) access? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:10:30 -0000 --St7VIuEGZ6dlpu13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 07:40:48PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 03/07/2008 19:36 Brooks Davis said the following: > > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 07:09:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> Is there already a way for public read-only svn access to FreeBSD src > >> repository? > >=20 > > svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/ > >=20 >=20 > Thank you! > The branch/tag hierarchy organization is quite nice. >=20 > What are the plans for (regional) mirrors? Nothing yet beyond "they will exist". -- Brooks --St7VIuEGZ6dlpu13 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFIbQgiXY6L6fI4GtQRAoorAJ9aCByRmk3B6OUGxJVA9XvxHybbwwCfZU3A LV7XS7Hk8dl79EvKDq9KtaM= =hugh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --St7VIuEGZ6dlpu13-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 18:02:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347FB1065671; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:02:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from math.missouri.edu (math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042978FC1B; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:02:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from [128.206.184.213] (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by math.missouri.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m63HNfuD057174; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:23:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Message-ID: <486D0AE9.5010906@math.missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:22:49 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080701 SeaMonkey/1.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lothar Braun References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> In-Reply-To: <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/7630/Thu Jul 3 11:29:37 2008 on math.missouri.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Robert Watson Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:02:01 -0000 Lothar Braun wrote: > What about having two utilities for the installation process? Something > like a very small (non-gui/non-X) version of "sysinstall" that just > installs a base system and only has the functionality to > > - partition/label a disk > - configure the network (if needed for installation) > - install the base system (or parts of it) > - install a boot manager > > and a second utility "sysconf" that provides the other stuff like post > installation system configuration (sshd, mouse), installing packages, > etc. The second utility could have an X-based GUI without disturbing the > installation process of serial console users or people that don't like X > on their machines. > > Would that be a good idea? Why not leave "sysconf" as a curses based interface? To my mind, the difference between X-based and curses is cosmetic. (Plus one of "sysconf"s duties will be to install X, so it would be a bit self-referential.) Next, it seemed to me that the OP's main complaint was that he had to change the CD's about 40 times when installing packages. Why not just fix that? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 18:03:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D785106568B for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:03:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from outZ.internet-mail-service.net (outz.internet-mail-service.net [216.240.47.249]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFEF8FC16 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:03:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from idiom.com (mx0.idiom.com [216.240.32.160]) by out.internet-mail-service.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC13290E; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idiom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2AF92D6022; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <486D1497.3020206@elischer.org> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:04:07 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Uladzislau Rezki References: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> In-Reply-To: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how can i get a file name knowing its descriptor? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:03:46 -0000 Uladzislau Rezki wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about > modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the > character device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 > > So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its descriptor? well, not really, at least not the name by which it was looked up. you MIGHT (sometimes) be able to use the directory name cache to work it out.. At one stage it was possible to do this for some percentage of the files but I dont remember if it was possible in 4.x. the idea is that you can find the name and do '..' lookups in the name cache.. i.e. fid if there is a name with your inode number, then get the directory inode number from that and then look up .. with that inode number etc.etc. but: I dont remember if we store ".." in the name cache these days (I remember some movement on this over the years) and Not all of the path to root might be there.. let me know if you work it out :-) > > static int > xxx_write (struct proc *p, struct write_args *uap) > { > struct vnode *vn; > struct file *file; > int sys_error; > > /* do system call */ > sys_error = write(p, uap); > if (sys_error != 0) > goto leave_call; > > /* get the file */ > file = curproc->p_fd->fd_ofiles[uap->fd]; > /* get the vnode */ > vn = (struct vnode *) file->f_data; > > /* do we have a regular */ > if (vn->v_type == VREG) { > ... > ... > ... > } > > As you can see we just know uap->fd. > > Thanks. > > -- > Uladzislau Rezki > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 18:37:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E53201065671 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:37:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@clewlow.org) Received: from clewlow.org (clewlow.org [210.215.149.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 488E78FC16 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:37:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@clewlow.org) Received: from 192.168.1.100 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clewlow.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3081C0845; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:37:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from 192.168.1.10 (SquirrelMail authenticated user tim) by 192.168.1.100 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:37:28 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <52853.192.168.1.10.1215110248.squirrel@192.168.1.100> In-Reply-To: <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486D04CE.6080101@lobraun.de> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:37:28 +1000 (EST) From: "Tim Clewlow" To: "Lothar Braun" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Robert Watson Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:37:31 -0000 > Robert Watson wrote: >> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote: >> >>> Robert Watson wrote: >>> >>>> My primary concern about some of these replacement installer >>>> projects >>>> is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical >>>> -- I >>>> actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they >>>> actually >>>> hurt my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but >>>> what >>>> I do want is a very tight and efficient install process, which I >>>> feel >>>> sysinstall does badly on (not just for the reasons you specify). >>> >>> Hmm, how should a tight and efficient installation process look >>> like >>> in your opinion? And what are the other points that are bad in >>> systinstall? >> >> For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic >> install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of >> customization during the install -- I configure machines using >> DHCP, I >> add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts >> since my >> servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem >> "reasonable". >> >> I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not >> to >> enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means >> that I >> find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't >> want >> sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in >> the >> handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different >> libdialog >> interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and >> express >> installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a >> box >> installed in <5m including actual time to write out the file >> systems, >> which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new >> installer :-). > > What about having two utilities for the installation process? > Something > like a very small (non-gui/non-X) version of "sysinstall" that just > installs a base system and only has the functionality to > > - partition/label a disk > - configure the network (if needed for installation) > - install the base system (or parts of it) > - install a boot manager > > and a second utility "sysconf" that provides the other stuff like > post > installation system configuration (sshd, mouse), installing > packages, > etc. The second utility could have an X-based GUI without disturbing > the > installation process of serial console users or people that don't > like X > on their machines. > > Would that be a good idea? > > Best regards, > Lothar I understand the desire to have an automated installer to make things real easy for first time installation for new users. But many people, including myself, will want to retain the current ability to specify exactly what we want as well. So, why not have a single menu at the start with 2 options: 1 - automatic desktop install (new user) 2 - traditional installer (veteran user) Perhaps the automatic installer can just use whatever disk space it finds (with suitable warnings) and attempt to install everything, ie equivalent of choosing All at the 'select distributions' stage. Maybe even do DHCP for net config. This would give a first time user a working system with a nice shiny X to make them feel good about choosing FreeBSD. Yes, I know they could just go to pcbsd, but I would prefer to have a new user at least attempt to learn proper sysadmin skills on vanilla FreeBSD. And if a new user gives up just because the installer is too confusing (especially the partitioner - it is wonderfully powerful, but it does take a bit of getting used to) then I think that is a shame. My cents. Tim. This email has been checked for viruses. It has sufficient. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 19:16:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FD2106567A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:16:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail2.fluidhosting.com (mx23.fluidhosting.com [204.14.89.6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B00778FC23 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:16:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 19283 invoked by uid 399); 3 Jul 2008 19:16:11 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO lap.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTPAM; 3 Jul 2008 19:16:11 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Sender: dougb@dougbarton.us Message-ID: <486D2579.1080400@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:16:09 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080606) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486BFE3B.3040509@gmail.com> <486C0928.8050607@yahoo.fr> <20080703085629.GA1590@intserv.int1.b.intern> <486CEEEF.8030808@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <486CEEEF.8030808@freebsd.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 OpenPGP: id=D5B2F0FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:16:15 -0000 Tim Kientzle wrote: > I don't think a graphical installer is necessarily > the answer to this. Simply obeying long-established > conventions for keyboard usage (ENTER selects the > thing under the cursor, for instance, instead of > having to TAB to the "OK" button first) would go > a long ways. The version of dialog we have in the system is prehistoric. The newer version is a lot better in the POLA department, and $SOMEONE was working on an update, but I don't know what happened to that effort. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 19:23:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3718D106564A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:23:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail2.fluidhosting.com (mx23.fluidhosting.com [204.14.89.6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA468FC0C for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:23:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 29835 invoked by uid 399); 3 Jul 2008 19:23:38 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO lap.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTPAM; 3 Jul 2008 19:23:38 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Sender: dougb@dougbarton.us Message-ID: <486D2738.7020709@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:23:36 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080606) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 OpenPGP: id=D5B2F0FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:23:39 -0000 Mike Makonnen has some very interesting ideas on this topic: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-December/081400.html FWIW, I think that there are 3 basic requirements for a new installer: 1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable of supporting at least a few different UIs (see above). 2. At least one of those UIs should be functional over a standard serial console. 3. It should be scriptable. hth, Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 20:13:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAD11065673 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:13:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from math.missouri.edu (math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FFB58FC12 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:13:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from [128.206.184.213] (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by math.missouri.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m63KD9QL064629 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:13:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Message-ID: <486D32A2.6030608@math.missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:12:18 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080701 SeaMonkey/1.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/7631/Thu Jul 3 13:13:01 2008 on math.missouri.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: time used by a thread X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:13:11 -0000 I want to use getrusage to see how much time a program is using. But this is a multithreaded program, and I just want the time taken by that particular thread! I know this info must be available somewhere, because top -H seems to provide it. But getrusage seems to give the total rusage for the whole program, not just the thread. Any ideas? I would especially appreciate a portable solution that works for OS other than FreeBSD (e.g. linux, etc as well). I tried "apropos thread | grep usage". From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 21:48:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38170106567D for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:48:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd06+XP=609639b6@mlists.homeunix.com) Received: from fallback-in1.mxes.net (fallback-out1.mxes.net [216.86.168.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148058FC15 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:48:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd06+XP=609639b6@mlists.homeunix.com) Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net (mxout-03.mxes.net [216.86.168.178]) by fallback-in1.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC5251646F0 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com. (unknown [87.81.140.128]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CB7723E3EF for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:32:08 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080703223208.700c8689@gumby.homeunix.com.> In-Reply-To: References: <784966050807021659h5ba54a2dy9093f6e1ab76f297@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.12.11; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / thanks for responding X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:48:35 -0000 On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:36:09 -0400 "Sean Cavanaugh" wrote: > This is the first time I ever actually downloaded all 3 CD's so i > didn't know what I was getting into. I had always just used the > first CD for the initial install, then ports for everything else. > Next time I will use the dvd. Actually that would have been perfect > as I got one of those unusual 550kB/s connections from ftp, lol. > > But I decided this time to get as many packages as quickly as > possible, then run portupgrade on them to get the latest versions. I think it might be easier to use pkg_add -r to get up-to-date 7-stable packages From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 21:55:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77FE11065682 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:55:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A98A8FC17 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:55:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: from apollo.backplane.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.backplane.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m63LtbV5092987; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.14.1/8.13.4/Submit) id m63LtQwY092981; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:55:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200807032155.m63LtQwY092981@apollo.backplane.com> To: Julian Elischer References: <200807031428.02286.v.rezkii@sam-solutions.net> <486D1497.3020206@elischer.org> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Uladzislau Rezki Subject: Re: how can i get a file name knowing its descriptor? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:55:38 -0000 :well, not really, at least not the name by which it was looked up. :you MIGHT (sometimes) be able to use the directory name cache to work :it out.. At one stage it was possible to do this for some percentage :of the files but I dont remember if it was possible in 4.x. : :the idea is that you can find the name and do '..' lookups in the name :cache.. i.e. fid if there is a name with your inode number, :then get the directory inode number from that and then look up .. :with that inode number etc.etc. but: : :I dont remember if we store ".." in the name cache these days :(I remember some movement on this over the years) :and :Not all of the path to root might be there.. : :let me know if you work it out :-) It's rather a mess. There are several parent directory linkages but FreeBSD uses a non-deterministic namecache architecture so sometimes it simply is not possible to backtrack the directory. There are three major elements: vp->v_dd is usually only populated for directory vnodes and not for non-directory files so using it to traverse ".." from a non-directory (aka from a file) generally will not work. It can be NULL (and quite often is), even for a directory vnode if I remember right, typically causing the caller to issue a VOP_LOOKUP() of "..". The namecache structure has a nc_dvp field which can typically be used at an end point (non-directory) to access the directory, assuming you can locate the namecache structure associated with the vnode you wish to construct the path for. And there is vp->v_cache_dst which is a list of namecache structures associated with the vnode, and vp->v_cache_src which associates a directory vnode with a list of children (namecache structures). All three can be empty. It is usually possible to reconstruct the path backwards if you can locate a directory vnode. Doing it from a non-directory vnode is more problematic as you have to rely on the existance of a cache linkage that gives you the directory, and you can then work up the chain based on that. VOP_LOOKUP() of ".." only works from a directory vnode. -- It is possible to store more deterministic information, there is really no underlying limitation to doing so other then NFS. It requires passing all changes, such as renames and unlinks, through the namecache instead of simply invalidating the namecache. Once that is done each file pointer (struct file), and cdir, rdir, and jdir in (struct filedesc), need an additional field which points to a persistent namecache entry representing the file. When you are vnode-relative you have no idea which namecache entry the potentially hardlinked file was accessed through. If you store the ncp reference separately, however, you know exactly which namecache entry, and hence which path, the hardlinked file was accessed through. Such a feature also makes implementation of NULLFS style overlays ridiculously easy because you no longer need to alias the vnode structure. When the vnode structure no longer needs to be aliased all the related hacks to deal with aliased vnode structures (such as accessing the related VM object, and special- casing the locking) can also be ripped out. -Matt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 23:07:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A19D1065736 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:07:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mozolevsky@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E704C8FC18 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:07:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mozolevsky@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id q2so798724uge.37 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:07:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=ABM+R/HYabgPI02hrHb52sf5LY0TVpvBUL9EJwFYdgg=; b=u0BltNTb2xy6x+b2OML5768gsJxekHb6e8FtoCwh8Puo2UOUA1VT/KbIqbuC6pLc+j 0YlbJvZTN2JSwhkXxuAjx78XWpihr4RcxuY0Ddz6dX8W9teeKpGVVqhn8KMtIlZ8DNaU EJHJ+nXMWK3uBjzvXbuOKFODjP+8Dm3m1/abg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=FW6wK7u007euI+6JRO/k+XcY5z8Cdvr6f5QQNGSqLfMivvJvzpG/s01Pr1Gv7+a0E6 6+xVviVBgTfqLsshBigqWaBvuTuRqYU5EnIVnoqeJwVzbubX+MyG9PxwNP0FFDP0APy6 VLM06Jq+EO3MsrftoEJK/0Ra5XcwDMSpNPe+A= Received: by 10.66.221.19 with SMTP id t19mr2056466ugg.69.1215124748531; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.248.12 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:39:08 +0100 From: "Igor Mozolevsky" Sender: mozolevsky@gmail.com To: "Doug Barton" In-Reply-To: <486D2738.7020709@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <486D2738.7020709@FreeBSD.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 218bec4666938724 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:07:06 -0000 2008/7/3 Doug Barton : > 1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable of supporting at > least a few different UIs (see above). > 2. At least one of those UIs should be functional over a standard serial > console. > 3. It should be scriptable. I was thinking of doing it, but nobody provided any constructive ideas and a lot of other installers started popping up, like the bsdinstaller et al, so I wasn't gonna waste any time on that front, and instead just ended up with a massive script that 'works for me'(TM) which does funky things like geom and ccache/distcc world build of the system it's installing onto. I had the first req. up and kind of expanded it into pretty cool stuff that essentially allowed the whole of system to be managed by providing custom plugins, but the monolithic world makes things a lot difficult to make the installer fancy. I'll happily revive the project if it's not going to be a total waste of time (read: others will be interested in contributing ideas and testing it). Cheers, Igor From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 21:21:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1453F106568A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:21:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from shiva.jussieu.fr (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.129]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE378FC1A for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:21:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michel@lpthe.jussieu.fr) Received: from parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.1]) by shiva.jussieu.fr (8.14.3/jtpda-5.4) with ESMTP id m63LL1hN067518 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:21:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Ids: 168 Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr [134.157.10.41]) by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC30237206 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:21:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: by niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix, from userid 2005) id 55D7D30; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:21:00 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:21:00 +0200 From: Michel Talon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080703212100.GA16598@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (shiva.jussieu.fr [134.157.0.168]); Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:21:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93/7418/Tue Jun 10 15:08:07 2008 on shiva.jussieu.fr X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Miltered: at jchkmail.jussieu.fr with ID 486D42BD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 486D42BD.001/134.157.10.1/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 486D42BD.001 on jchkmail.jussieu.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.025 -> S=0.025 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:24:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:21:05 -0000 Doug Barton wrote: > Mike Makonnen has some very interesting ideas on this topic: > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-December/081400.html > > FWIW, I think that there are 3 basic requirements for a new installer: > > 1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable of supporting > at least a few different UIs (see above). > 2. At least one of those UIs should be functional over a standard > serial console. > 3. It should be scriptable I agree completely with these comments. Much less with the argument of Mike Makonnen, to the point that using a scripting language in the front end (lua for the bsdinstaller) is bad. Using a sensible scripting language (python, lua, something simple and readable) would ensure that a lot of people can contribute effectively and that the program can evolve easily. The argument that there sould be no external dependency seems to me inspired by the NIH syndrom. Important points would be to solve the long standing problems with sysinstall internal fdisk and disklabel program: namely the bogus geometry problems with fdisk and the 16 sectors offset for partition a. A bonus would be support for "alien" partitioning such as extended partitions. An other very important problem would be to support modern FreeBSD, such as "virtual" devices created by GEOM, etc. As other people mentioned there are inconsistencies in the use of keyboard keys, and scripted installs are very poor, compared for example to RedHat anaconda. Personnally i like a curses interface, like the one of sysinstall, but a simple shell script like in OpenBSD could also do the job for the minimalist people, while a graphical installer running on top of a live CD, like in many Linux distributions, Ubuntu, etc. could be envisioned. The DragonFlyBSD installer runs on top of a live CD, this is the easiest way to have a full featured installer, but this requires a machine with sufficient RAM. Anyways all those possibilities point to the soundness of your propositions 1) and 2). -- Michel TALON From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 21:37:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FADC1065686 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:37:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from babkin@verizon.net) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C99D8FC17 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:37:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from babkin@verizon.net) Received: from vms126.mailsrvcs.net ([172.18.12.131]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0K3G0019K9DF9YQ3@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:36:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 65.242.108.162 ([65.242.108.162]) by vms126.mailsrvcs.net (Verizon Webmail) with HTTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:36:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:36:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Sergey Babkin X-Originating-IP: [65.242.108.162] To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Stephen Montgomery-Smith Message-id: <26495768.1230901215121011453.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:29:17 +0000 Cc: Subject: Re: time used by a thread X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:37:02 -0000 >I want to use getrusage to see how much time a program is using. But >this is a multithreaded program, and I just want the time taken by that >particular thread! > >I know this info must be available somewhere, because top -H seems to >provide it. But getrusage seems to give the total rusage for the whole >program, not just the thread. > >Any ideas? I would especially appreciate a portable solution that works >for OS other than FreeBSD (e.g. linux, etc as well). On Linux and Solaris it can be done by reading the /proc filesystem. Probably on FreeBSD too, haven't tried. But it's different on each OS. -SB From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 22:07:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB901065685; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from postal1.es.net (postal4.es.net [198.124.252.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8359A8FC0C; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [198.128.4.29]) by postal4.es.net (Postal Node 4) with ESMTP (SSL) id JCG75638; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:55:38 -0700 Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [127.0.0.1]) by ptavv.es.net (Tachyon Server) with ESMTP id 6F3114504E; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:55:37 -0700 (PDT) To: "Rob Lytle" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:28:50 PDT." <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1215122137_50574P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:55:37 -0700 From: "Kevin Oberman" Message-Id: <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:29:35 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:07:15 -0000 --==_Exmh_1215122137_50574P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 > From: "Rob Lytle" > Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org > > Hi All, > > I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. > CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That > was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD > install existed, but will do that next time. You call this a flame war? It's been pretty civil and there are no scorch marks on my display. I agree that the disk swapping is not a good thing, but I simply avoid it by never installing packages from sysinstall. I only use sysinstall for FreeBSD. Once I have FreeBSD installed, I update my ports tree with csup (but portsnap is probably a better way) and install ruby and portupgrade. Then I simply install the ports/packages I want using 'portinstall -P'. This assures that I have the latest ports and not something stale. I can speed the process by copying all of the packages from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only have to change CDs a couple of times. > 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a dependency > is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install gigantic > packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my > notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one hell > of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for > FreeBSD 10.0. I have not seen this, but I don't sue sysinstall to install packages/ports. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 --==_Exmh_1215122137_50574P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 06/03/2002 iD8DBQFIbUrZkn3rs5h7N1ERAueoAJ97OM7ukkvgyB8g6GKyXQqb3llYOwCdFOWb VeJSQh+TendhnsxT3t/1rd4= =uYML -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1215122137_50574P-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 3 22:19:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1517C10656D6; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:19:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antoinebrunel@yahoo.fr) Received: from smtp4.tech.numericable.fr (smtp4.tech.numericable.fr [82.216.111.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2AC98FC16; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:19:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antoinebrunel@yahoo.fr) Received: from brunel.pagan.fr (cable-83.217.146.118.coditel.net [83.217.146.118]) by smtp4.tech.numericable.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DF2212A813; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 00:19:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <486D5089.6000900@yahoo.fr> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:19:53 +0200 From: Antoine BRUNEL User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080609) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Oberman References: <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> In-Reply-To: <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:29:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer , Rob Lytle , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:56 -0000 Hi all I suggest this "flame" to stop right now... because everybody is ok finally.... I agree with Rob in the fact that 'sysinstall' is a bit disturbing tool with its way of working: the "enter" key, the error messages if HTTP source is unavailable, etc.... and I confess I had to re-install my laptop 3 or 4 times before getting what I wanted from sysinstall. Maybe this tool should be upgraded, but I think it should not follow the way other installerd did.... somebody spokes about the Oracle installer... It was a real hell for you: how to install an Oracle database onto an HP 7 inch terminal, without X and/or Java installed ?? I hope FreeBSD will never get way, like Windows or Linux.... How about to give a try at the actual Debian ncurse installer ??? still in text based environment, but very powerful .... Kevin Oberman a écrit : >> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 >> From: "Rob Lytle" >> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org >> >> Hi All, >> >> I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. >> CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That >> was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD >> install existed, but will do that next time. >> > > You call this a flame war? It's been pretty civil and there are no scorch > marks on my display. > > I agree that the disk swapping is not a good thing, but I simply avoid > it by never installing packages from sysinstall. I only use sysinstall > for FreeBSD. > > Once I have FreeBSD installed, I update my ports tree with csup (but > portsnap is probably a better way) and install ruby and > portupgrade. Then I simply install the ports/packages I want using > 'portinstall -P'. This assures that I have the latest ports and not > something stale. I can speed the process by copying all of the packages > from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports > that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only > have to change CDs a couple of times. > > > >> 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a dependency >> is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install gigantic >> packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my >> notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one hell >> of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for >> FreeBSD 10.0. >> > > I have not seen this, but I don't sue sysinstall to install > packages/ports. > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 00:18:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C8F1065689 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 00:18:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (five.mired.org [66.92.153.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DA18FC16 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 00:18:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: (qmail 73222 invoked by uid 1001); 3 Jul 2008 20:18:44 -0400 Received: from bhuda.mired.org (bhuda [192.168.195.1]) by bhuda (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:18:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:18:41 -0400 To: Michel Talon Message-ID: <20080703201841.2b0b955b@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20080703212100.GA16598@lpthe.jussieu.fr> References: <20080703212100.GA16598@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.4.0 (GTK+ 2.12.9; amd64-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Mike Meyer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:18:58 -0000 On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:21:00 +0200 Michel Talon wrote: > evolve easily. The argument that there sould be no external dependency > seems to me inspired by the NIH syndrom. I think your seeming is wrong. I believe it's inspired by the belief that the base system should be self-replicating: you should be able to build the distribution with the base install and sources. While I think that kind of self-replicating ability is a good goal, having an X interface pretty much kills it - you have to have have the X headers to compile against, if nothing else. I think this makes the wanting to use a modern HLL more palatable. However, once you tie part of the release process to some external tool, you create extra headaches for the ports folks. You can no longer update the port without verifying that you didn't just break the release process. This means updating the port will take longer - which will make users who like FreeBSD because critical software in the ports tree tends to stay up to date unhappy. Maybe you need to maintain two versions of the port? Not pretty if they're actually based on the same release of the language. Or course, you could move the interpreter into the base system, but we've been there before, and it was really ugly (and I'm there now on clients GNU/Linux systems, and it's *still* really ugly). Come to think of it, someone claimed that (some of) the problems with the installer come from using an ancient version of dialog, so it seems that part of the system is *still* there. On the other hand, if you're going to do this, replacing the forth in the boot process would seem to be a suitable second objective. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 03:28:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8DD1065675 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:28:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from cauchy.math.missouri.edu (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5828FC1C for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:28:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from laptop3.gateway.2wire.net (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by cauchy.math.missouri.edu (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m643R9xq070605; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:27:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Message-ID: <486D98C1.9060401@math.missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:28:01 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080702 SeaMonkey/1.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sergey Babkin References: <26495768.1230901215121011453.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> In-Reply-To: <26495768.1230901215121011453.JavaMail.root@vms126.mailsrvcs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: time used by a thread X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:28:03 -0000 Sergey Babkin wrote: >> I want to use getrusage to see how much time a program is using. But >> this is a multithreaded program, and I just want the time taken by that >> particular thread! >> >> I know this info must be available somewhere, because top -H seems to >> provide it. But getrusage seems to give the total rusage for the whole >> program, not just the thread. >> >> Any ideas? I would especially appreciate a portable solution that works >> for OS other than FreeBSD (e.g. linux, etc as well). > > On Linux and Solaris it can be done by reading the /proc filesystem. > Probably on FreeBSD too, haven't tried. But it's different on each OS. Thanks. I developed a non-portable solution using kvm_getprocs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 04:26:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8071065678 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:26:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784C68FC15 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:26:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so962384wfg.7 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:26:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=AgLZQOkDjhJZFmRAKI6UEyJ6YPU7QfdVsimTsD5B92o=; b=f6HOxGExcl7wH3bNEU/GkQ4STRLWS2mr/YkIoQ5X84Db5sg2im4HsKsYYr+gHmNiOM hSblC5zu5OWIopZDEoW5vfDkt4NaSB/y/8NYcGtocqnz0hIYoF2xB22gDloj/BoDef2F D0Gvf1B9YqVNsrEGKL/FLLxpGm87MJp4L1NT4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=KPtKAFkctuwo0TRJirXJvLHm67+EtvD1TjBjmZNxEPathAXgHVt95PDWek8zhPU420 ujBuXEqhYjeWbS7TJ7oo1CM4wQx6345k6qZvJMqCKXSriUgmOq58Eb/4HHZkmultJRDX DK8HlwDw2G7RSfpw1V4mGJZwcmzdwBpvp4E1k= Received: by 10.142.162.9 with SMTP id k9mr107033wfe.93.1215145577049; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.20 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:26:16 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" To: "Kevin Oberman" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:28:19 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:26:17 -0000 Hi Kevin, The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. I use portupgrade for all ports. i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens so you have to babysit the whole process. Rob. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: > > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700 > > From: "Rob Lytle" > > Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org > > > > Hi All, > > > > I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: > 1. > > CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. > That > > was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD > > install existed, but will do that next time. > > You call this a flame war? It's been pretty civil and there are no scorch > marks on my display. > > I agree that the disk swapping is not a good thing, but I simply avoid > it by never installing packages from sysinstall. I only use sysinstall > for FreeBSD. > > Once I have FreeBSD installed, I update my ports tree with csup (but > portsnap is probably a better way) and install ruby and > portupgrade. Then I simply install the ports/packages I want using > 'portinstall -P'. This assures that I have the latest ports and not > something stale. I can speed the process by copying all of the packages > from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports > that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only > have to change CDs a couple of times. > > > > 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a > dependency > > is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to install > gigantic > > packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE metapackage, and my > > notebook uses an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2Ghz or thereabout. That is one > hell > > of a long compile time. For this request I will just have to wait for > > FreeBSD 10.0. > > I have not seen this, but I don't sue sysinstall to install > packages/ports. > -- > R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer > Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) > Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) > E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 > Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 > -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 04:33:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE2C1065685; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:33:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from cauchy.math.missouri.edu (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3845A8FC0A; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:33:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from laptop3.gateway.2wire.net (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by cauchy.math.missouri.edu (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m644W8jk072941; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:32:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Message-ID: <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:33:00 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080702 SeaMonkey/1.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rob Lytle References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Kevin Oberman Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:33:07 -0000 Rob Lytle wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that > its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. > > I use portupgrade for all ports. > > i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the > time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens > so you have to babysit the whole process. You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 04:51:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A2D106564A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:51:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from MTaylor@bytecraft.com.au) Received: from bcmelmx.bytecraft.au.com (bcmelmx.bytecraft.au.com [203.39.118.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDFEF8FC12 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:51:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from MTaylor@bytecraft.com.au) Received: from svmailmarshal.bytecraft.internal ([10.0.0.3]) by bcmelmx.bytecraft.au.com (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m644HIIt023249 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:17:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from MTaylor@bytecraft.com.au) Received: from svmailmel.bytecraft.internal (Not Verified[10.0.0.24]) by svmailmarshal.bytecraft.internal with MailMarshal (v6, 4, 1, 5038) id ; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:17:18 +1000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:17:03 +1000 Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81D2@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: massive interrupt storm Thread-Index: AcjdjM/Jig3DoDfKTt2J8Qubi3fNdw== From: "Murray Taylor" To: Subject: massive interrupt storm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:51:02 -0000 Hi all, We have just purchased some servers with a view to using them as firewalls within our WAN, and have discovered that they are suject to a massive interrupt storm on IRQ17. systat -v is showing 59000 -> 63000 interrupts continuously on this IRQ, and 90%->98% Interrupt CPU usage =20 The server specs are=20 Model: IBM x3250 M2 IBM MT code: 4190 CPU : Core 2 Duo,=20 Has SAS RAID module fitted to mobo 2 SATA drives in RAID 1 No mobo PS2 ports at all 4 USB port on mobo 2 Broadcom NIC on mobo 1 Gb RAM fitted as 2 512M sticks PCI Express Bus - No cards installed It seem to be related to one of the PCI busses as bge1 doesnt come up in the dmesg lists and that is on (i think) pcib1. Big Note: this storm activity is apparent on 4.11, 6.2 and 7.0 ... kernel is GENERIC in all test cases. The boxen work, just v e r y s l o w l y ... ideas ? Murray Taylor Special Projects Engineer Bytecraft Systems -- "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein=20 --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material.=20 E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- ### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses by Bytecraft ### From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 04:38:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437DA1065676 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:38:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6128FC19 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:38:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so965403wfg.7 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:38:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=U3uuSj89k648vIGYMtB86zy8DW93EnWR1AzdGWZyKU4=; b=XFYtkXS8BoB5PLOqBiy2epZ1QBJ2wEEGXir7efCj/XxU3HW5pQQ/kOQAWfqhrZ43C9 GWfGh/2hMha6R1TKY9ZtOeYT//ev1lv8qEz0Bsg/MdJDzFBIKVtW2NVp36avsK4CSdv1 FOk7wAvYEFDhyW4MrZARmPyB2Gkj10Qb97zvs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=e85qGRk/euMlegi86GURceDNjAG19XPqMzk//KHc2HbLa4H8KUdTuyUkE95Hlqb59Q 2CuL8JymahANYyXG5jMqkVEpVxJ9nIPYmfl4F5aOcR0bjCKSk43LoNi7Fx7rUWWAVlhv w+0VzzvPwO4w3QljIyYmpbiswb56Ev0kns6XM= Received: by 10.143.18.21 with SMTP id v21mr107370wfi.185.1215146333511; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.20 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:38:53 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" To: "Stephen Montgomery-Smith" In-Reply-To: <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:57:50 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Kevin Oberman Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 04:38:54 -0000 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Stephen Montgomery-Smith < stephen@math.missouri.edu> wrote: > Rob Lytle wrote: > >> Hi Kevin, >> >> The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt >> that >> its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. >> >> I use portupgrade for all ports. >> >> i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the >> time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag >> screens >> so you have to babysit the whole process. >> > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. Rob -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 05:01:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395C2106566C for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:01:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from smtp2.yandex.ru (smtp2.yandex.ru [213.180.200.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B458FC1A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:01:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from ns.kirov.so-cdu.ru ([77.72.136.145]:22732 "EHLO [127.0.0.1]" smtp-auth: "bu7cher" TLS-CIPHER: "DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA keybits 256/256 version TLSv1/SSLv3" TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by mail.yandex.ru with ESMTP id S4395282AbYGDFBm (ORCPT ); Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:01:42 +0400 X-Yandex-Spam: 1 X-Yandex-Front: smtp2 X-Yandex-TimeMark: 1215147702 X-MsgDayCount: 2 X-Comment: RFC 2476 MSA function at smtp2.yandex.ru logged sender identity as: bu7cher Message-ID: <486DAEB0.2040904@yandex.ru> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:01:36 +0400 From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (FreeBSD/20051231) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Murray Taylor References: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81D2@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> In-Reply-To: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81D2@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: massive interrupt storm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:01:46 -0000 Murray Taylor wrote: > ideas ? What shows `vmstat -i`? -- WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 05:09:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C99C41065683; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:09:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from cauchy.math.missouri.edu (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C4E8FC0A; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:09:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from laptop3.gateway.2wire.net (cauchy.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by cauchy.math.missouri.edu (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6458xSg074281; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 00:09:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Message-ID: <486DB09F.4080803@math.missouri.edu> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:09:51 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080702 SeaMonkey/1.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rob Lytle References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:09:53 -0000 Rob Lytle wrote: > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Stephen Montgomery-Smith < > stephen@math.missouri.edu> wrote: > >> Rob Lytle wrote: >> >>> Hi Kevin, >>> >>> The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt >>> that >>> its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. >>> >>> I use portupgrade for all ports. >>> >>> i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the >>> time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag >>> screens >>> so you have to babysit the whole process. >>> >> You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into >> /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) > > > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. It means it acts as though you didn't change any of the check boxes at all. (So either the default, or if it was previously set in /var/db/ports, then what that is.) It is explained in "man ports" but not in great detail. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 05:28:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB69106566C for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:28:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from MTaylor@bytecraft.com.au) Received: from bcmelmx.bytecraft.au.com (bcmelmx.bytecraft.au.com [203.39.118.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD058FC0A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:28:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from MTaylor@bytecraft.com.au) Received: from svmailmarshal.bytecraft.internal ([10.0.0.3]) by bcmelmx.bytecraft.au.com (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m645SFCe027572 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:28:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from MTaylor@bytecraft.com.au) Received: from svmailmel.bytecraft.internal (Not Verified[10.0.0.24]) by svmailmarshal.bytecraft.internal with MailMarshal (v6, 4, 1, 5038) id ; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:28:15 +1000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:28:00 +1000 Message-ID: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81E1@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: massive interrupt storm Thread-Index: Acjdkxz+NE1lEXcfQrWGL5HykMKEVwAA1PhA From: "Murray Taylor" To: "Andrey V. Elsukov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: massive interrupt storm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:28:18 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org=20 > [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Andrey V. Elsukov > Sent: Friday, 4 July 2008 3:02 PM > To: Murray Taylor > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: massive interrupt storm >=20 > Murray Taylor wrote: > > ideas ? >=20 > What shows `vmstat -i`? >=20 > --=20 > WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov vmstat -i output interrupt total rate irq1: atkbd0 78 0 irq6: fdc0 3 0 irq16: uhci0 ehci0 3 0 irq17: mpt0 uhci1* 680341376 57301 irq21: bge0 11806 0 cpu0: timer 23737523 1999 Total 704090789 59301 --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material.=20 E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- ### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses by Bytecraft ### From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 05:33:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A4F4106567E for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:33:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-nospam@yaxom.com) Received: from gw.yaxom.com (gw.yaxom.com [59.167.217.197]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 43BA68FC18 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:33:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-nospam@yaxom.com) Received: (qmail 86534 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2008 15:06:21 +1000 Received: from joker.yaxom.com (172.16.1.10) by iliad.yaxom.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2008 15:06:21 +1000 Received: (qmail 49491 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jul 2008 15:06:21 +1000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:06:21 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Rob Lytle References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i; gjb-muttsend.sh 1.7 2004-10-05 X-Uptime: 98 days X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE-p5 i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.yaxom.com/gjb.html X-Blog: http://www.yaxom.com/gjb/blog/ X-Image-URL: http://www.yaxom.com/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Key-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-Request-PGP: http://www.yaxom.com/keys/4B04B7D6.asc Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:33:05 -0000 On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote: > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into > > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) > > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. Instead of all this vociferous whining, how about just doing a bit of reading of the documentation? The ports(7) page might be a place to start. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 05:33:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036B7106566C; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:33:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simoncpu@infoweapons.com) Received: from infoweapons.com (mail0.infoweapons.net [204.2.248.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2098FC0A; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:33:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simoncpu@infoweapons.com) Received: from ([58.71.34.138]) by mail0.infoweapons.com with ESMTP with TLS id 4321444.460049; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:17:50 -0400 Message-ID: <486DB3CB.9000906@infoweapons.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:23:23 +0800 From: "Simon Cornelius P. Umacob" Organization: Infoweapons Corporation User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061125) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rob Lytle References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:33:17 -0000 Rob Lytle wrote: >>> >> You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into >> /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) > > > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. > It means, "yeah, whatever, as long as it will work." :) [ simon.cpu ] -- And /usr/games/fortune futurama says: "Planet Express: our crew is replaceable, your package isn't." -Advertisement From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 06:33:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3241065676 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:33:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from smtp1.yandex.ru (smtp1.yandex.ru [213.180.200.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F25538FC21 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:33:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from ns.kirov.so-cdu.ru ([77.72.136.145]:8910 "EHLO [127.0.0.1]" smtp-auth: "bu7cher" TLS-CIPHER: "DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA keybits 256/256 version TLSv1/SSLv3" TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by mail.yandex.ru with ESMTP id S8372487AbYGDGdd (ORCPT ); Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:33:33 +0400 X-Yandex-Spam: 1 X-Yandex-Front: smtp1 X-Yandex-TimeMark: 1215153213 X-MsgDayCount: 4 X-Comment: RFC 2476 MSA function at smtp1.yandex.ru logged sender identity as: bu7cher Message-ID: <486DC432.7040009@yandex.ru> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:33:22 +0400 From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.5 (FreeBSD/20051231) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Murray Taylor References: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81E1@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> In-Reply-To: <04E232FDCD9FBE43857F7066CAD3C0F15B81E1@svmailmel.bytecraft.internal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: massive interrupt storm X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:33:44 -0000 Murray Taylor wrote: > irq17: mpt0 uhci1* 680341376 57301 Did you try to disable USB in BIOS? (yes, you don't have PS/2, but you can use SSH for testing) Also did you try to disable ACPI? -- WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 07:07:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F711065675 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 07:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aggelidis.news@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.171]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839998FC1C for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 07:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aggelidis.news@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so1001313wfg.7 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:07:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=pem+L5XDpIBk9KvF08KA1eUlZqC5m4bl4eCa8fvHZG0=; b=Rxk5K/IZtza60TFqx6nL88Lh5aABapUcKHMKAipVq6wjTXomZuGzzVXBXNXuH8nEVr 9gx86hebBFUPK+KR+0ZOgdw7SDt1izLtgHHKx8g7Nn1UasvnIa609luU5ZSlrDUD2yuY 8McFjiIUcVDx6sDsKjiDqYozvvRNx8uNNOw7o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=Zi5ylgnmFqLPpspnB67WLYfHkCnz44bZ8GA825YYWQ+14ily9qdqB38BeVuCG5z2aR 1tU46an0bQdbIU/kv5a8P/04iVCab6L86uNur89ZSDVoWxGTWVW6QXN9Yy8SnD925exh VFNoD0a0eOWLzLXr9bo3jHGKxItTWmqq3GgFU= Received: by 10.142.53.19 with SMTP id b19mr117601wfa.167.1215153517294; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.143.10.10 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <30fc78250807032338p2388be7ax56e1ae38aaafadd8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:38:37 +0300 From: "Aggelidis Nikos" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <486DB3CB.9000906@infoweapons.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> <486DB3CB.9000906@infoweapons.com> Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 07:07:14 -0000 > I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1. > CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That > was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD > install existed, but will do that next time. > I also had the same problem {cd switching} to get around it, i created an installation DVD with all the contents of cd1-2-3. You can find such guide > I can speed the process by copying all of the packages > from CD to my system (/usr/ports/packages/All). That way, only ports > that have been updated since the release will be downloaded and I only > have to change CDs a couple of times. > i hadn't thought of this, seems like a nice trick... Isn't it possible that the advice given in these threads find its way into the handbook? {i use freebsd for less than a month, so if this is a stupid suggestion, please ignore it :) } -nicolas From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 09:21:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025DA1065678 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:21:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668038FC1E for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:21:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6491B5O081544; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:01:11 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:01:11 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:01:11 +0400 (MSD) Cc: oleg@rinet.ru Subject: profiling broken on RELENG_7/i386 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:21:02 -0000 Dear colleagues, It seems we step on a bug in gcc in RELENG_7/i386 It is triggered at least by profiling program which uses getopt(3): marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> cat test.c #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int ch; while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "")) != -1) { } return (0); } marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> make Warning: Object directory not changed from original /dumpster/home/marck/tmp/gprof cc -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -march=prescott -g -pg -c test.c cc -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -march=prescott -g -pg -o test test.o marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> ./test Segmentation fault (core dumped) marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> gdb test test.core GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-marcel-freebsd"... Core was generated by `test'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. #0 0x080481e0 in main (argc=Cannot access memory at address 0x1b ) at test.c:6 6 { (gdb) l 1 2 #include 3 4 int 5 main(int argc, char *argv[]) 6 { 7 int ch; 8 9 while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "")) != -1) { 10 } (gdb) marck@ref7-i386:~/tmp/gprof> truss ./test __sysctl(0xbf7feb0c,0x2,0x806bf70,0xbf7feb18,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7fe64c,0x2,0x806d558,0xbf7fe654,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7fe69c,0x2,0xbf7fe6a8,0xbf7fe6ac,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) readlink("/etc/malloc.conf","aj",1024) = 2 (0x2) issetugid(0x8066d0d,0xbf7fe70b,0x400,0xbf7feb18,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8100000) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8200000) = 0 (0x0) sysarch(0xa,0xbf7feba0,0xbf7febc8,0x8048555,0x8102040,0xc) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8226004) = 0 (0x0) profil(0x82075a8,0xf52e,0x8048148,0x8000,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) SIGNAL 11 (SIGSEGV) other ref platforms seem to be ok. Any hints? Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 09:26:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8591065671 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:26:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.133.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D31948FC14 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:26:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m649Q9fp004840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:26:10 +1000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m649Q9QQ034021; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:26:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m649Q95v034020; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:26:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:26:09 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Uladzislau Rezki Message-ID: <20080704092609.GW29380@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mhOzvPhkurUs4vA9" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how can i get file name knowing its descriptor? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:26:13 -0000 --mhOzvPhkurUs4vA9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Jul-03 14:08:12 +0300, Uladzislau Rezki wrote: >I've been writing a small kernel module, that provides information about >modification of the filesystem to user_land/userspace through the >character device. I'm using FreeBSD 4.10 4.10 has not been supported for several years now. I strongly recommend you look at upgrading to at least 6.3. >So, my question is: Is there any way to get file name knowing its descript= or? The simple answer is no. That said, you could try having a look at how lsof works (whilst it runs in userland, it needs to grovel around in the kernel datastructures much the same as your module would need to. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --mhOzvPhkurUs4vA9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkht7LEACgkQ/opHv/APuIei/wCgwmLXG49ddTsdzl4ULNRFNVo8 HckAnA0aJrch8lQqj0iVWefuE3NmBBp6 =G6Lf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mhOzvPhkurUs4vA9-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 09:26:59 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4211065685 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:26:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEE68FC2A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:26:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m649QvwF082047; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:26:57 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:26:57 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> Message-ID: <20080704132159.C35668@woozle.rinet.ru> References: <20080704121833.J35668@woozle.rinet.ru> X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:26:58 +0400 (MSD) Cc: oleg@rinet.ru Subject: Re: profiling broken on RELENG_7/i386 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:26:59 -0000 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, Dmitry Morozovsky wrote: DM> It seems we step on a bug in gcc in RELENG_7/i386 DM> DM> It is triggered at least by profiling program which uses getopt(3): [snip] DM> other ref platforms seem to be ok. Nah, HEAD/i386 also has this bug, though backtrace is a bit different: marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> make clean all rm -f test test.o Warning: Object directory not changed from original /dumpster/home/marck/tmp/gprof cc -O2 -pipe -march=prescott -g -pg -fstack-protector -c test.c cc -O2 -pipe -march=prescott -g -pg -fstack-protector -o test test.o marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> ./test Segmentation fault (core dumped) marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> gdb test test.core GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-marcel-freebsd"... Core was generated by `test'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. #0 0x08048242 in getopt () (gdb) bt #0 0x08048242 in getopt () #1 0x080481f9 in main (argc=0, argv=0x0) at test.c:9 (gdb) l 9 while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "")) != -1) { 10 } 11 12 return (0); 13 } (gdb) marck@ref8-i386:~/tmp/gprof> truss ./test __sysctl(0xbf7fe728,0x2,0x8071ff0,0xbf7fe730,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7fe67c,0x2,0x80776a8,0xbf7fe684,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7fe6cc,0x2,0xbf7fe6d8,0xbf7fe6dc,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) readlink("/etc/malloc.conf","DMaj",1024) = 4 (0x4) issetugid(0x806c233,0xbf7fe737,0x400,0xbf7fe730,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8100000) = 0 (0x0) break(0x8200000) = 0 (0x0) sysarch(0xa,0xbf7feba0,0xbf7febc8,0x8048555,0x8102040,0xc) = 0 (0x0) break(0x822c69c) = 0 (0x0) profil(0x8208988,0x11e8a,0x8048148,0x8000,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) __sysctl(0xbf7feb9c,0x2,0x8072140,0xbf7feba4,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) SIGNAL 11 (SIGSEGV) amd64 and RELENG_6 seem to perform well Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 05:58:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3D71065687 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:58:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A158FC1A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:58:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so983686wfg.7 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:58:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=YhCQPadCXOvRmIvYawgdW3v2OJSl9Bk9lj+imuqIkKw=; b=pKivR2/oHMP6ByAxiMwlpMDmLH3Cyt4MKIEQHwx/IjqmYzzriYl8zzsY1uBWIj6eWD C6dm47yoREhs7KJSsjeHIUUQ93HYZtyKRXKWiVNchzXTivb39E/ZYClJgHsCJLLYFVLA L+gTRK5E1/fqtujbtmmqvDKdDmg60gA4dedmg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=czngo1qrlp4LDyYvHkVAXxfuya9k77jZV7vzjcEiMdyYumx1ttjNWkSp+IXqsvNyTW yERJCb+jklHuCi+fZXDe/CVjhZ2o31UmJCy+qN2FdGyhfvE68L+7elQ7JCRT323SE5CI ERUfMOoUp20OuJOgU80ZGi/xcvp1vIXqD5gFc= Received: by 10.142.142.14 with SMTP id p14mr114615wfd.104.1215151102196; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.20 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <784966050807032258n230bc0bx461b652c8ae6da71@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:58:22 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" To: "Greg Black" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:59:47 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:58:23 -0000 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Greg Black wrote: > On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote: > > > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into > > > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) > > > > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or > none > > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. > > Instead of all this vociferous whining, how about just doing a bit of > reading of the documentation? The ports(7) page might be a place to > start. > That would have been wonderful, groovy, etc if I had known there was a ports page. Rob. -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 06:04:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A673106566C for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:04:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031368FC14 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:04:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan6146@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so985250wfg.7 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:04:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=lJDA/UjCJQbH1+DpcvwNWBQpYXxqJ4qEBVgf9hpt2WQ=; b=rmAV7BDwUp50ReK+EVRayG10w1kky4E8Uir0/lTXxmbTGBRGF/sWzWDIbir59sOrCk WAXiO1DPF6quFVRscVeaiJ6hgU1xmiUWvDLs54wAO2EmqwKGx9dnDH91KAAuDGVhMn7w FBRs9FDQ5FJsi/IAy5t42Rc49BA/2ZCfSJ59c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=poX9JP+47Vce0vvJZ2IrwurFHM3U9SjOyC/+3sxH3HQeoFDt+3oDrAMTSxS8J6aRHU QNNcBmM3DzUCBLtHCOxhf0GejjfQEuL1Aa9RYkM+o8jnWY1IwKOZWL17zPfDMpciaarg fxLEMK9TACMzkdK2FMmJAjIQsVQLpnB3tKXMc= Received: by 10.142.240.9 with SMTP id n9mr115722wfh.79.1215151450208; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.20 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <784966050807032304x48b575d3jddfe3844d7196b38@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:04:10 -0700 From: "Rob Lytle" To: "Greg Black" In-Reply-To: <784966050807032258n230bc0bx461b652c8ae6da71@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> <784966050807032258n230bc0bx461b652c8ae6da71@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:00:00 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:04:11 -0000 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Rob Lytle wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Greg Black > wrote: > >> On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote: >> >> > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into >> > > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.) >> > >> > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or >> none >> > at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere. >> >> Instead of all this vociferous whining, how about just doing a bit of >> reading of the documentation? The ports(7) page might be a place to >> start. >> > > That would have been wonderful, groovy, etc if I had known there was a > ports page. Rob. > And another thing, just because FreeBSD is not perfect, don't blame it on me or use derogatory language. I'm not perfect either and I deserve to be treated with respect. Some day someone will search the archives and find this thread, answering their problem so they don't have to go through this miserable process like I have. It makes me less likely to use the mailing lists, more likely to delete the FreeBSD partition, and install OpenBSD which has impeccable documentation. Rob. > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds > (Ham radio videos) > -- ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/user/whiteflluffyclouds (Ham radio videos) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 12:14:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F9F1065676; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:14:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74AC58FC18; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:14:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F08E2085; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:14:36 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: "Rob Lytle" References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:14:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> (Rob Lytle's message of "Thu\, 3 Jul 2008 21\:26\:16 -0700") Message-ID: <868wwhhmms.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/23.0.60 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Kevin Oberman Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:14:38 -0000 "Rob Lytle" writes: > i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the > time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag scree= ns > so you have to babysit the whole process. This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you can install with 'pkg_add -r'. You can install them from any FTP mirror, actually; just point PACKAGEROOT at the mirror: export PACKAGEROOT=3Dftp://ftp.no.freebsd.org DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 12:31:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1656106564A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:31:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onemda@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B6E8FC1F for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:31:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onemda@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so745643pyb.10 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:31:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=9aH/q0QJNNYiupRJeKoLC4BQ+r4Gs9k0xzRYss6PTGc=; b=ZDO/nwfnwsxyIjwPcQrRBNu/w7Uk7VFmSAtfFa0UmfeX9qOqsIrUxr6lsdNjGo3UiE wuDudwZf3+1VyL7MvvslhAPbDfEXdSUJB2O9o5DgU93o3iieTA+CUxtt+L4JfXq2GDxe 3Uag7EppLhoEIbs5b+Gv2dZz2UguczbrUflmU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=MOzGnxA8vdYG+UXAhwWjN7TskGA8cOXXnRSNmyXI+BGVaRHXCa4LchmLrEcC/WbgDR u/EGDJ6WRVGcNxmT7CgI95oaVAJ/yyUy0FMxUZ1mkHlOg5TDSr5c1LV7m27BtRL8QGaE TRuQ0DeVYBEsNLFH3xVlHUHGOHkDudK6/8AOM= Received: by 10.142.173.8 with SMTP id v8mr224458wfe.63.1215174711636; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.231.8 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 05:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3a142e750807040531k27938f0ay9bd9923ec57f3f1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:31:51 +0200 From: "Paul B. Mahol" To: "Randy Bush" In-Reply-To: <486E14F2.3060906@psg.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <868wwhhmms.fsf@ds4.des.no> <486E14F2.3060906@psg.com> Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Rob Lytle , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:31:53 -0000 On 7/4/08, Randy Bush wrote: >> This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you >> can install with 'pkg_add -r'. You can install them from any FTP >> mirror, actually; just point PACKAGEROOT at the mirror: > > why isn't this stuff in the docs? oh, it is! silly me. is the problem > that there are just too much doc or two little reading? > > It is in pkg_add(1), If you are talking about handbook only PACKAGESITE is documented: should get fixed. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 12:42:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1910B1065678 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:42:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@oclc.org) Received: from mail.pica.nl (mail.pica.nl [192.87.44.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A57238FC17 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:42:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@oclc.org) Received: from rebelion.Sisis.de ([193.31.10.34]) by mail.pica.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 Received: (from guru@localhost) by rebelion.Sisis.de (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m64CgRij010315 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: rebelion.Sisis.de: guru set sender to matthias.apitz@oclc.org using -f Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE (i386) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jul 2008 12:42:27.0937 (UTC) FILETIME=[6AC7B510:01C8DDD3] Subject: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:42:32 -0000 Hello, I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as well ~200 ports.... thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ «...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.» «...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.» José Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 14:22:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C077106564A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:22:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gary.jennejohn@freenet.de) Received: from mout5.freenet.de (mout5.freenet.de [IPv6:2001:748:100:40::2:7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253CE8FC28 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:22:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gary.jennejohn@freenet.de) Received: from [195.4.92.16] (helo=6.mx.freenet.de) by mout5.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID gary.jennejohn@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.69 #19) id 1KEmBN-0007bF-JN; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:22:41 +0200 Received: from r90fd.r.pppool.de ([89.54.144.253]:56485 helo=peedub.jennejohn.org) by 6.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID gary.jennejohn@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.69 #12) id 1KEmBN-0002k5-BT; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:22:41 +0200 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:22:39 +0200 From: Gary Jennejohn To: Matthias Apitz Message-ID: <20080704162239.696ab740@peedub.jennejohn.org> In-Reply-To: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.5.0 (GTK+ 2.10.14; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, guru@unixarea.de Subject: Re: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: gary.jennejohn@freenet.de List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:22:44 -0000 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 Matthias Apitz wrote: > I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > well ~200 ports.... > Theoretically it should work. It's not necessary to overwrite your current kernel. You can do something like this, which is what I do to test kernels. cd /usr/src;make -s installkernel KODIR=/boot/test;cd nextboot -k test reboot This does a one-time start using the test kernel under /boot/test. Your other option is to describe the problem and ask if anyone using 8-current has encountered it. --- Gary Jennejohn From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 14:40:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AF1106566C; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:40:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@oclc.org) Received: from mail.pica.nl (mail.pica.nl [192.87.44.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56AFB8FC23; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:40:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Matthias.Apitz@oclc.org) Received: from rebelion.Sisis.de ([193.31.10.34]) by mail.pica.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:40:03 +0200 Received: (from guru@localhost) by rebelion.Sisis.de (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m64Ee3RP032047; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:40:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: rebelion.Sisis.de: guru set sender to matthias.apitz@oclc.org using -f Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:40:02 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Rui Paulo Message-ID: <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE (i386) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jul 2008 14:40:03.0821 (UTC) FILETIME=[D86A29D0:01C8DDE3] Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, james@nighthack.org, Matthias Apitz , Manolis Kiagias Subject: Re: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:40:05 -0000 El día Tuesday, July 01, 2008 a las 12:14:26PM +0100, Rui Paulo escribió: > On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 11:02:20AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Rui, > > Have you commited your changes to RELENG_7 too or only to HEAD? I'm > > asking because Fn+F2 does toggle the power of the wireless NIC but > > devd(8) does not see any ACPI event in this case; it sees it for example > > if the battery comes full; > > > > thx for clarifying this > > > > could you please send me the /etc/devd.conf file you mention in the page > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee ? in the one which came out of CVS with > > RELENG_7 I could not see anything about hotkeys; thx in advance > > Only to HEAD. I'm going to MFC it today. Hello Rui, With your changes of acpi_asus.c in RELENG_7 the devd(8) and my hook-script in /usr/local/etc/devd/ath.conf sees the Fn+F2 now as the event "ACPI ASUS-Eee _SB_.ATKD", but it is anyway if Fn+F2 switches off or on the wireless NIC, the event for devd(8) is always the same; from the above event it is clear where the strings for system ACPI and subsystem ASUS-Eee come from, but I don't see where the string "_SB_.ATKD" is made; it must be derived from the 'notify' argument of the call /* Notify devd(8) */ acpi_UserNotify("ASUS-Eee", h, notify); and I was hoping to distinguish it into two different events, one when Fn+F2 is switching off the NIC, and one of the case of switch on; any idea? thx matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ «...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.» «...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.» José Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 15:10:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A8651065676 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:10:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shadel540@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s36.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s36.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.108]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669398FC16 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:10:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shadel540@hotmail.com) Received: from BAY113-W6 ([65.54.168.106]) by bay0-omc1-s36.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 4 Jul 2008 07:58:50 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [84.39.80.245] From: bruno faria To: Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:58:50 +0000 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jul 2008 14:58:50.0274 (UTC) FILETIME=[77D54020:01C8DDE6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: kernel module programming X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:10:49 -0000 well i'm making an interactive bootsplash for PCBSD and i wan't to know whe= re i can get info in retrieving the current log from the kernel (dmesg outp= ut)=2C sorry for any mistake as this is not my native lang...=20 regards Bruno Faria... _________________________________________________________________ Conhe=E7a o Windows Live Spaces=2C a rede de relacionamentos do Messenger! http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br/= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 15:40:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7792B1065678; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:40:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from postal1.es.net (postal1.es.net [198.128.3.205]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AFD38FC12; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:40:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [198.128.4.29]) by postal1.es.net (Postal Node 1) with ESMTP (SSL) id KWS74415; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:40:15 -0700 Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [127.0.0.1]) by ptavv.es.net (Tachyon Server) with ESMTP id D60EE4500E; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:40:13 -0700 (PDT) To: "Rob Lytle" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:26:16 PDT." <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1215186013_19456P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:40:13 -0700 From: "Kevin Oberman" Message-Id: <20080704154013.D60EE4500E@ptavv.es.net> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:11:01 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:40:16 -0000 --==_Exmh_1215186013_19456P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline > Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:26:16 -0700 > From: "Rob Lytle" > > Hi Kevin, > > The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that > its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done. > > I use portupgrade for all ports. > > i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the > time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens > so you have to babysit the whole process. Please don't top post! I never said that you should build from ports. I said that you should not use sysinstall to install packages. I said that you can copy the packages from the CDs to /usr/ports/packages/All/ and use 'portinstall -P' to install all of them that are still current and to download those that are not. This simply eliminates all of the disc shuffling. If the nag screens annoy you, use BATCH=yes to build ports with default values. That gives you the same build as the package system uses. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 --==_Exmh_1215186013_19456P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 06/03/2002 iD8DBQFIbkRdkn3rs5h7N1ERAkVIAKC5/YaClS78ClLsjS/1tI7vSQohPwCfQXJX j/nwfprLN28jz6V9qSeXx9M= =jKtZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1215186013_19456P-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 17:46:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34925106568D for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 17:46:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A492B8FC0C for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 17:46:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so467374nfh.33 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:46:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:cc:subject :message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent:sender; bh=riZpLqEYbRvcyig8clAj9pg39PPGmjWnsddMJFp7O6w=; b=YA3jqqXaujKQ+FBfIsOKi01oZ14cVhn6c7Mz3aMBinVNu00xzb/zbIgOSG7Rh/Y5R2 6bidFf8W6uCSQuUsRFQNNGwItsILBvhLgyQ3gvrH6t9PfSuAuZae6Sd0NKCZ3cnE2mez 2Qrq5XQkim2Dj7sSEeYnTjM+JIePGy/ZAv3sA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to:user-agent:sender; b=h3TmTwBgCqQedXyLGLj069Yf03t1hNLrRpO3HZAT3w+DhCJ9clxqDZvPCTXcWnMcFE vcrSQxjGJNwu+yhxndBtZppZz4AjTw2Y53HUQzJywFUDkB85bCkOEbFJm+A069hIdbEE UTeHAEQ5wiWiTUdnPod/qYDkULYAHxdxhPC5s= Received: by 10.210.22.16 with SMTP id 16mr540181ebv.86.1215193576476; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phi.local ( [89.214.206.15]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f13sm757444gvd.2.2008.07.04.10.46.13 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 18:44:44 +0100 From: Rui Paulo To: Matthias Apitz Message-ID: <20080704174444.GC3560@phi.local> References: <20080626075545.GA2964@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080626231603.GC6875@phi.local> <20080627080203.GA19602@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080627194447.GA34524@phi.local> <20080629160527.GA17075@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080629162234.GB1261@phi.local> <20080701090220.GA4431@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080701111426.GA1152@phi.local> <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20080704144002.GA3661@rebelion.Sisis.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: Rui Paulo Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, james@nighthack.org, Rui Paulo , Manolis Kiagias Subject: Re: eeePC 900 && turning off wireless (ath0) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:46:18 -0000 On Fri, Jul 04, 2008 at 04:40:02PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El día Tuesday, July 01, 2008 a las 12:14:26PM +0100, Rui Paulo escribió: > > > On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 11:02:20AM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > > Rui, > > > Have you commited your changes to RELENG_7 too or only to HEAD? I'm > > > asking because Fn+F2 does toggle the power of the wireless NIC but > > > devd(8) does not see any ACPI event in this case; it sees it for example > > > if the battery comes full; > > > > > > thx for clarifying this > > > > > > could you please send me the /etc/devd.conf file you mention in the page > > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/AsusEee ? in the one which came out of CVS with > > > RELENG_7 I could not see anything about hotkeys; thx in advance > > > > Only to HEAD. I'm going to MFC it today. > > Hello Rui, > > With your changes of acpi_asus.c in RELENG_7 the devd(8) and my > hook-script in /usr/local/etc/devd/ath.conf sees the Fn+F2 now as the > event "ACPI ASUS-Eee _SB_.ATKD", but it is anyway if Fn+F2 switches off > or on the wireless NIC, the event for devd(8) is always the same; > from the above event it is clear where > the strings for system ACPI and subsystem ASUS-Eee come from, but I > don't see where the string "_SB_.ATKD" is made; it must be derived > from the 'notify' argument of the call > > /* Notify devd(8) */ > acpi_UserNotify("ASUS-Eee", h, notify); > > and I was hoping to distinguish it into two different events, one when > Fn+F2 is switching off the NIC, and one of the case of switch on; any > idea? thx If you get the same string from the event, there's not much we can do. _SB_.ATKD is the ACPI namespace for the keyboard. Regards, -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 4 20:40:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27ADB106566C for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:40:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (five.mired.org [66.92.153.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67328FC0A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:40:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: (qmail 33633 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jul 2008 16:40:17 -0400 Received: from bhuda.mired.org (bhuda [192.168.195.1]) by bhuda (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:40:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:40:15 -0400 To: Matthias Apitz Message-ID: <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.4.0 (GTK+ 2.12.9; amd64-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Mike Meyer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, guru@unixarea.de Subject: Re: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:40:31 -0000 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 Matthias Apitz wrote: > I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > well ~200 ports.... When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work properly whether userland does or not. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 00:09:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB701065675; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 00:09:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B7A8FC1E; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 00:09:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m65098Sd024080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:09:08 +1000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m65097FL052692; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:09:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m65097cw052691; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:09:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:09:07 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Rob Lytle Message-ID: <20080705000907.GG29380@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <784966050807022128g6a6ebfebtc1f57c0da66779bc@mail.gmail.com> <20080703215537.6F3114504E@ptavv.es.net> <784966050807032126m69eedb98nf0ccaed548fc96ef@mail.gmail.com> <486DA7FC.8050304@math.missouri.edu> <784966050807032138g7ed2da8chf15f185a6a6bf302@mail.gmail.com> <784966050807032258n230bc0bx461b652c8ae6da71@mail.gmail.com> <784966050807032304x48b575d3jddfe3844d7196b38@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="L/bWm/e7/ricERqM" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <784966050807032304x48b575d3jddfe3844d7196b38@mail.gmail.com> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years / sorry I started flame war X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:09:10 -0000 --L/bWm/e7/ricERqM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Jul-03 23:04:10 -0700, Rob Lytle wrote: >FreeBSD partition, and install OpenBSD which has impeccable documentation. Having tried to make sense of the OpenBSD carp documentation, I can only assume that is meant as a joke. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --L/bWm/e7/ricERqM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkhuu6MACgkQ/opHv/APuIellQCglC0MeOGfpzegnIwXJD8yuqJI aF0Anigv7XNQ0hfbgSmTXTHa0USvfWW2 =QQmr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --L/bWm/e7/ricERqM-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 00:13:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 550FE106568A for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 00:13:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB80F8FC12 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 00:12:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so494308nfh.33 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:12:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=cBOiG/sWu6orYRNsIyKmpUwmv5ktcMomJCxkAnPPLzk=; b=DBpkWKRawT4+Q2OlQ+pgSahfkizexrK8U6UpYGB+3a6DUTZjKh7HQmxHHx8Y7g99IA rgai38FBW5G6OWFia8SrwW4QLW2/lFnua+4dqWQXADE8v6wtSioN955upwQxpNjGTmZd 2puxqUEw4IQlXwGUNUEdDVKVV+uZ1/3vcosPw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=jMYfZlac9KQaUBhiN8DbqEpnQidz2nDRkNLA80BcS8+zyWdFuCanxPKko5n9wjtVpJ yc6Th821dR2VFpU9AyEK+Fe7CBH01fIMx13O7C+A678gPrWwa5eC8TRX+Ge1eZkSnCfq oBVHj1xf9+noxlMyhENFJf0jNTKpVMWqbF124= Received: by 10.210.102.16 with SMTP id z16mr767179ebb.22.1215216778365; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.34.1 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 17:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:12:58 -0400 From: "Alexander Sack" To: "Mike Meyer" In-Reply-To: <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, guru@unixarea.de, Matthias Apitz Subject: Re: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:13:00 -0000 On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 > Matthias Apitz wrote: >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as >> well ~200 ports.... > > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. > > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work > properly whether userland does or not. As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX variants). -aps From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 00:28:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61DD31065679 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 00:28:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (five.mired.org [66.92.153.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006A08FC14 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 00:27:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: (qmail 37264 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jul 2008 20:27:46 -0400 Received: from bhuda.mired.org (bhuda [192.168.195.1]) by bhuda (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:27:45 -0400 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:27:44 -0400 To: "Alexander Sack" Message-ID: <20080704202744.083436a4@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.4.0 (GTK+ 2.12.9; amd64-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Mike Meyer Cc: Matthias Apitz , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, guru@unixarea.de, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:28:00 -0000 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:12:58 -0400 "Alexander Sack" wrote: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer > wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > >> well ~200 ports.... > > > > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In > > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has > > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. > > > > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work > > properly whether userland does or not. > > As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes > recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. > It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my > 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about > cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a > very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different > versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX > variants). So stable that the things that break when you try and do this have made it into the FAQ: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/troubleshoot.html#NLIST-FAILED Personally, I managed to try this once when the console driver needed a termcap entry change as well :-(. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 02:38:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9C21065675 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 02:38:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AAF8FC17 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 02:38:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so501331nfh.33 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:38:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=vicWfVkQpO3MCTxgFZUclhFGw4X5BCC6JWXWMybdecw=; b=Ckp6BAGdFSs5aDrWguLLDwcvtonfhbZpdOufmWiLwAVyGTHvkyQXm3FGLN8dmR9DC2 wDVj2LcNGODyBM6QhlhAPembpgw2phEoYjiawuTef3CNLIXPFkxRm2P/8iBJoGfHaVz8 PDcTYQvEL5O0jsaD0rsieWX15gXeMeIFgKTw8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=pEu7bv4d0IdKOZydCSGfED4yJ5zXGgmo4Rvj/kUCTVHmuE3jsHQquUf+tVJXV4ynIt 42TslWqQG5hSYA9i0xmPso4g68iQpyEGJDPj3UgxVR6GiYNIyzvJTzH721gBAdRyJx5P 8argGGFmPlyKzJjOGqRgvw9yaf04ESs8ooQQU= Received: by 10.210.141.4 with SMTP id o4mr852307ebd.59.1215225484134; Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.34.1 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c0b01820807041938w619caa44of154de91dac1beb4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 22:38:04 -0400 From: "Alexander Sack" To: "Mike Meyer" In-Reply-To: <20080704202744.083436a4@bhuda.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> <20080704202744.083436a4@bhuda.mired.org> Cc: Matthias Apitz , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, guru@unixarea.de, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:38:07 -0000 On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:12:58 -0400 > "Alexander Sack" wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer >> wrote: >> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 >> > Matthias Apitz wrote: >> >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my >> >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as >> >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland >> >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the >> >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as >> >> well ~200 ports.... >> > >> > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In >> > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has >> > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. >> > >> > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work >> > properly whether userland does or not. >> >> As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes >> recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. >> It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my >> 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about >> cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a >> very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different >> versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX >> variants). > > So stable that the things that break when you try and do this have > made it into the FAQ: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/troubleshoot.html#NLIST-FAILED > > Personally, I managed to try this once when the console driver needed > a termcap entry change as well :-(. Oh c'mon now....if this is the worst of your problems, then you're doing pretty darn good. I believe Linux binaries rely on the version of glibc, an aux vec entry, and the way the kernel was actually built to figure out whether to use syscall or int to hop into the kernel. I mean things could be a lot worse!! :D! -aps From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 05:26:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEFE1065677 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 05:26:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) Received: from hunter.Sisis.de (mail.oclc.de [193.31.11.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45BE8FC0C for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 05:26:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) Received: (from mail@localhost) by hunter.Sisis.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25371; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 07:08:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) Received: from ppp-88-217-63-22.dynamic.mnet-online.de(88.217.63.22) by hunter.Sisis.de via smap (V2.1) id xma025327; Sat, 5 Jul 08 07:08:16 +0200 Received: (from guru@localhost) by rebelion.Sisis.de (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m655G5nx002065; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 07:16:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from matthias.apitz@oclc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: rebelion.Sisis.de: guru set sender to matthias.apitz@oclc.org using -f Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 07:16:05 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Alexander Sack Message-ID: <20080705051605.GA1840@rebelion.Sisis.de> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE (i386) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:26:01 -0000 El día Friday, July 04, 2008 a las 08:12:58PM -0400, Alexander Sack escribió: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer > wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 > > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > >> well ~200 ports.... > > > > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In > > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has > > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. > > > > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work > > properly whether userland does or not. > > As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes > recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. > It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my > 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about > cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a > very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different > versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX > variants). When I said HEAD, I mean HEAD in terms of CVS; and my situation is the same: I want to check some problem with ath / hal on my eeePC 900, if it is also in HEAD or only in RELENG_7 branch; matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ «...una sola vez, que es cuanto basta si se trata de verdades definitivas.» «...only once, which is enough if it has todo with definite truth.» José Saramago, Historia del Cerca de Lisboa From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 12:00:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D511065676 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 12:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com (ik-out-1112.google.com [66.249.90.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787878FC30 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 12:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pisymbol@gmail.com) Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c30so769378ika.3 for ; Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:00:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=o8uFPSaUR1Y4227Lkh4ybkNaCSf8zk3tLbzaKg6zCCo=; b=DXctRp8INkvM6Wxjqmcz/Ub00ymv3g5BcaERw8xKOzcDZw8CHKMDRYctpqFQa3+GNE bzzxfcdUYPS7wK1rQRmQPHNWVgsMvy8xn5BRHQAs2OqXZ+99lJPGm5NWNfo0SFhLWNyP pqW4JAobUDCA61jzX6I2EsRcd8DwNE5PR+ecA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=dbzlJIhaGSOl5QLR660rpmu+UmB9xFwfiQrnJAatUvkkUVXdZA1mZsBsfLYL7eomIL lAMhQBNpACGZgbXqA2Q+IMBAL1Xg4t9ZBgLQkxSbe2SznbHwhNYlQnUvGx0SqtGnZok2 ZYK3dup70kmN8vmTBGXwfRpHyLmlsf2F+9wdU= Received: by 10.210.11.1 with SMTP id 1mr1196996ebk.96.1215259257086; Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.34.1 with HTTP; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 05:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3c0b01820807050500k6604b4fsa4a5bbe09d05ca1e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:00:57 -0400 From: "Alexander Sack" To: "Matthias Apitz" In-Reply-To: <20080705051605.GA1840@rebelion.Sisis.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> <20080705051605.GA1840@rebelion.Sisis.de> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:00:59 -0000 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El d=EDa Friday, July 04, 2008 a las 08:12:58PM -0400, Alexander Sack esc= ribi=F3: > >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer >> wrote: >> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 >> > Matthias Apitz wrote: >> >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my >> >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG= _7 is as >> >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userlan= d >> >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the >> >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as >> >> well ~200 ports.... >> > >> > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In >> > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has >> > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. >> > >> > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work >> > properly whether userland does or not. >> >> As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes >> recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. >> It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my >> 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about >> cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a >> very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different >> versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX >> variants). > > When I said HEAD, I mean HEAD in terms of CVS; and my situation is the > same: I want to check some problem with ath / hal on my eeePC 900, if it > is also in HEAD or only in RELENG_7 branch; Like I said, it should work. I did the EXACT same thing on Thursday to check the re driver on my Eee Box at work. -aps From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 14:06:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631D51065675 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 14:06:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.tymkow@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1AF8FC13 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 14:06:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.tymkow@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so539954nfh.33 for ; Sat, 05 Jul 2008 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=iXYMvbm3nmXiXKrSRiKokbmkjhVUpZly6A/0zLTRixg=; b=pVOZ9TnmXFHjvaZ9ytY0oiqa2f2OrLVtQ4Af4dIBWqRJBgs9uzk2Yv1+kAmoS3vNv2 PuYpD11nnGiTfXYWGrzOSivKTXfD1J0eUb+oGdIfR7irYWYiWE2IRCgrG1C93wp/3r9/ kWymLEDNsiXnwB9a3LIrWz8Gg1LX0uYE8PWJI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=QQYcAskbwiLKzqdcimDxkzp2mG6uViXo68E+HnQHjSETfnGbn+O9jn79iQi/hEFmFF b+99WGMeD2DnKNsiO3lZDEZrtlnfECRjbQhOxJmBbZiFrQ+Y/VpkDMywHVZZhH0wY9nY NUOreZJSzGY6pmE5rEQdRNhtb7Xz8Z75smSPE= Received: by 10.210.46.14 with SMTP id t14mr1269660ebt.124.1215266799546; Sat, 05 Jul 2008 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.57.20 with HTTP; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <692660060807050706i6e02fe04t840bc0a2aff1e8ae@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 16:06:39 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Tymk=F3w?=" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Sed in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:06:41 -0000 Hi, I'm trying to use sed in script to append file after pattern but I couldn't find any good example how can I do it. I've tried with sed -e '/PATTERN/ a\ line' file but this did'n work. There are many axamples in internet but none of them work on FreeBSD. Best regards, Sebastian Tymkow From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 15:10:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6F6106564A; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:10:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mtm@wubethiopia.com) Received: from dire.wubethiopia.com (j071.v.rootbsd.net [208.79.82.223]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A1A88FC22; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:10:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mtm@wubethiopia.com) Received: from rogue.mike.lan (unknown [213.55.67.249]) by dire.wubethiopia.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 787B64FD97AF; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 14:53:55 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:59:35 +0300 From: Mike Makonnen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080323) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Lothar Braun , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:10:06 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: > > For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic > install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of > customization during the install -- I configure machines using DHCP, I > add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts since my > servers don't multi-boot and the defaults currently seem "reasonable". > > I don't like being asked many more questions than whether or not to > enable sshd, and what to set the root password to. This means that I > find our current distributions menu a bit inefficient (I don't want > sub-menus, I just want checkboxes), and that the inconsistency in the > handling of the space/enter/tab/cursor keys across different libdialog > interfaces in the install is awkward. The current generic and express > installs seem to capture a lot of my desire, in that I can get a box > installed in <5m including actual time to write out the file systems, > which is great. I really don't want to lose this with a new installer :-). That's the route I'm trying to go with the Sysinstall-BSD Installer "mashup." No "submenu hell", no "XYZ distribution" choices, and no extraneous configuration choices. My basic philosophy is that there should be no "Basic", "Expert", or "Custom" modes. There should only be one mode with sensible default choices so that the novice user can simply just click "Next" and the more expert user can modify the default choices and get exactly what he/she wants. Also, the installer's job should only be to install a useable system. Post-installation chores like configuration, adding/removing users, etc should be done by another application. You shouldn't need the installer once you've installed the OS. And oh yeah-- if you can't reliably upgrade from a previous version of the OS, you shouldn't offer the user the option of doing so. Essentially the user only needs to supply 6 things: 1) Where to install to. 2) Where to get installation files from. 3) Network card configuration. 4) Date and Time zone. 5) Hostname. 6)root's password. I'm leaning towards adding a 7th question on whether to enable sshd(8) simply because it's so useful and one of the first things I do after installing a server. Although I didn't want to have the installer setup additional users at first I'm also leaning towards implementing it since enabling sshd(8) without having a non-root user to login as is kinda pointless. Other than that: 1. The stock installation disk should allow the user to easily automate installation (through a configuration file on a flash disk or something). 2. You shouldn't have to edit the source code to make changes to release name, ftp installation sites, etc... 3. Completely divorce the UI from the backend installation logic. So, that all that you need to implement a new UI is boiler plate code to display items sent by the backend and return responses/choices made by the user. Although it needs a few improvements, the BSD Installer pretty much already does this. Status update on the installer I'm woring on: The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list after that is setting Date and Time Zone. At that stage the installer will be more or less feature-complete, and I can start code cleanup, getting it to work on additional architectures, etc. I had initially intended to include package installation as one of the criteria for feature-completeness, but after reading through this thread I've decided not to use sysinstall's package installation code and instead write one from scratch once I'm happy with the rest of the installer. Cheers. -- Mike Makonnen | GPG-KEY: http://people.freebsd.org/~mtm/mtm.asc mtm @ FreeBSD.Org | AC7B 5672 2D11 F4D0 EBF8 5279 5359 2B82 7CD4 1F55 FreeBSD | http://www.freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 15:22:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 150671065676; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09FD8FC20; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:22:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3587746C50; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 11:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 16:22:09 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Mike Makonnen In-Reply-To: <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> Message-ID: <20080705161614.O19209@fledge.watson.org> References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Lothar Braun , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:22:10 -0000 On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Mike Makonnen wrote: > The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the > ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on > getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list after that is > setting Date and Time Zone. At that stage the installer will be more or less > feature-complete, and I can start code cleanup, getting it to work on > additional architectures, etc. I had initially intended to include package > installation as one of the criteria for feature-completeness, but after > reading through this thread I've decided not to use sysinstall's package > installation code and instead write one from scratch once I'm happy with the > rest of the installer. Sounds pretty much in line with what I was looking for. However, I think I would like to see it be a bit more complete than sysinstall in the area of geom partition labeling (concat/strip/raid/encryption), and perhaps also ZFS support. I realize that adds complexity a fair amount, but one of the biggest areas of feature lack in sysinstall today is that you are basically stuck with the original BSD partition structure and UFS, whereas we expect increasing numbers of users to deploy ZFS. We don't have boot support currently, but being able to set up /data as a ZFS file system would be great. Today, people have to do an initial install on, say, a small boot partition and then relabel/deal with the rest of the disk, boot a live CD, or worse, discover they have to repartition, which really fails to expose some of the excellent ease-of-use, auto-configuration, etc, features that we otherwise have in this area. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 15:23:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FFA71065676 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:23:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jimmy@mammothcheese.ca) Received: from smtp131.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp131.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.53.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29F8E8FC1B for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:23:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jimmy@mammothcheese.ca) Received: (qmail 90602 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2008 14:56:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?72.138.160.206?) (jazzturk@rogers.com@72.138.160.206 with plain) by smtp131.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2008 14:56:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YAtVyw4VM1lnIghygpo4iSZApgYzTwEPUkc5zYEbcftroC1Y_roE1RKmZRqAR9bxMQ-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <486F8BB8.6040704@mammothcheese.ca> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:56:56 -0400 From: James Bailie User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080629) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Tymk=F3w?= References: <692660060807050706i6e02fe04t840bc0a2aff1e8ae@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <692660060807050706i6e02fe04t840bc0a2aff1e8ae@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sed in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jimmy@mammothcheese.ca List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:23:39 -0000 Sebastian Tymków wrote: > I've tried with sed -e '/PATTERN/ a\ line' file but this did'n work. There > are many axamples in internet but none > of them work on FreeBSD. The inserted line needs to be on a separate physical line. sed -e '/PATTERN/a\ line' For /bin/csh, you need two backslashes because the shell recognizes backslashes inside single-quotes, which it shouldn't. -- James Bailie http://www.mammothcheese.ca From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 5 21:16:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6EB81065674 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:16:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (five.mired.org [66.92.153.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C2C78FC0C for ; Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:16:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: (qmail 53599 invoked by uid 1001); 5 Jul 2008 17:15:59 -0400 Received: from bhuda.mired.org (bhuda [192.168.195.1]) by bhuda (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:15:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 17:15:57 -0400 To: "Alexander Sack" Message-ID: <20080705171557.18f6348c@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <3c0b01820807041938w619caa44of154de91dac1beb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080704124227.GA10264@rebelion.Sisis.de> <20080704164015.514425fd@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041712l39bdafd8sf3914c2b462023c6@mail.gmail.com> <20080704202744.083436a4@bhuda.mired.org> <3c0b01820807041938w619caa44of154de91dac1beb4@mail.gmail.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.4.0 (GTK+ 2.12.9; amd64-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Mike Meyer Cc: Matthias Apitz , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, guru@unixarea.de, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: kernel HEAD && userland 7.0-REL? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:16:12 -0000 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 22:38:04 -0400 "Alexander Sack" wrote: > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 20:12:58 -0400 > > "Alexander Sack" wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Mike Meyer > >> wrote: > >> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:42:27 +0200 > >> > Matthias Apitz wrote: > >> >> I'm running a RELENG_7 kernel and a userland as 7.0-REL on one of my > >> >> laptops; I've been asked to check if a given driver problem in RELENG_7 is as > >> >> well with HEAD... can I update the kernel to HEAD and let the userland > >> >> (and all my compiled ports) as 7.0-REL; I know that this is not the > >> >> intention, but it would cost me a lot of work if I should compile as > >> >> well ~200 ports.... > >> > > >> > When you say HEAD, do you mean the HEAD of 8-CURRENT or 7-STABLE? In > >> > either case whether or not it works depends on whether something has > >> > changed in the kernel that has a required userland change. > >> > > >> > On the other hand, if you mean 7-STABLE, then the ports should work > >> > properly whether userland does or not. > >> > >> As a note, I just recently used HEAD on a 7_STABLE box to test changes > >> recently to re for an updated PCIe revision NIC card on my Eee Box. > >> It worked fine (both runtime and my NIC which I then patched my > >> 7_STABLE tree which also worked, yea!). In a thread I started about > >> cross platform building, it seems that historically FreeBSD has had a > >> very stable ABI allowing multiple kernels to run underneath different > >> versions of user land (this is certainly not the case for all *NIX > >> variants). > > > > So stable that the things that break when you try and do this have > > made it into the FAQ: > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/troubleshoot.html#NLIST-FAILED > > > > Personally, I managed to try this once when the console driver needed > > a termcap entry change as well :-(. > > Oh c'mon now....if this is the worst of your problems, then you're > doing pretty darn good. I believe Linux binaries rely on the version > of glibc, an aux vec entry, and the way the kernel was actually built > to figure out whether to use syscall or int to hop into the kernel. I > mean things could be a lot worse!! :D! Sorry; I was actually agreeing with you. That it works well enough that there's a FAQ entry on the problems is a good indication that things won't be seriously broken. Nuts - they expect it to work well enough that running that way is part of the from-source upgrade process! What breaks are things in the base system that don't use the ABI, but poke around in the kernel directly, or otherwise expect to be in sync with some kernel behavior other than the ABI. However, just so the GNU/Linux people don't feel to bad, I'll note that the ABI stability really only applies to -STABLE. On -CURRENT, it changes (though I don't track -CURRENT these days, so don't know how bad things have been recently); there have been cases where the FILE * changed, meaning nothing from the old system that used stdio worked. This is why there's /usr/ports/misc/compat* - to make the old ABI available on new releases. We're still fairly close to the last split between -STABLE and -CURRENT; so it's not surprising that (as reported) it works. On the other hand, it's *not* a supported configuration, so that it works last week is at best indicative that it might work this week. There's no guarantee, and if you're left with a dead system - well, that's what you risked. The best way to try something like this is to use the nextboot utility to arrange to boot your "questionable" kernel once, as has already been suggested. That way, if it winds up totally busted, a reboot will automatically bring you back to your working kernel. http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org