From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 22:53:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60AB11065672; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:53:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stas@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mr0.ht-systems.ru (mr0.ht-systems.ru [78.110.50.55]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C208FC18; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:53:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stas@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [85.21.245.235] (helo=orion.SpringDaemons.com) by smtp.ht-systems.ru with esmtpa (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1L7H9n-00067Y-NX; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:22:19 +0300 Received: from orion (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.SpringDaemons.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DB17C398F3; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:23:55 +0300 (MSK) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:23:50 +0300 From: Stanislav Sedov To: david_5073@yahoo.com Message-Id: <20081202012350.5f2415f3.stas@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <425805.11833.qm@web38505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <692660060811290748i33059137g3977e51f692d8340@mail.gmail.com> <425805.11833.qm@web38505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Organization: The FreeBSD Project X-XMPP: ssedov@jabber.ru X-Voice: +7 916 849 20 23 X-PGP-Fingerprint: F21E D6CC 5626 9609 6CE2 A385 2BF5 5993 EB26 9581 X-Mailer: carrier-pigeon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Sebastian =?UTF-8?Q?Tymk=C3=B3w?= , Marcello Barreto , freebsd-pf@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:53:12 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 08:26:57 -0800 (PST) David Roseman mentioned: > It also has a traffic monitor that is indispensable in tracking down > DOS attacks, worms and out of control servers. I'd pay $500. just for the monitor. I have a problem, I fire up the monitor and bingo, I find the > problem. I think you can buy the lowest priced license and still use the > monitor and gather statistics no matter how large your network is. > How does this traffic monitor differ from tcpdump? From pictures it looks like just a web-interface for tcpdump and nothing more... - -- Stanislav Sedov ST4096-RIPE -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEARECAAYFAkk0Y/sACgkQK/VZk+smlYFIMgCePZdDAbMJRrH/L7uvrTDoPGk6 LfYAn1BWfBBDyTTmALteVUEFcxfMvOib =jnfa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 23:36:26 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8071C106564A for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:36:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f19.google.com (mail-gx0-f19.google.com [209.85.217.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C128C8FC17 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:36:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: by gxk12 with SMTP id 12so1473259gxk.19 for ; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:36:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=wjzUSxyWZUyB+2BTPvrqbqVjxVQaRe9Fsubdw3fo4SE=; b=QN1O57TotR2ghv8oPolInMZHaQaxt+vl9ETXWB6zDJ7pLS1YicMrfiUQ6uofApUlE9 0e/qNoITeVLGhaPS3RsPAoB8a8SKpqmLN3e4TZLmdmVOILvrz0UITAYFldyr61JSrNx/ Tn9yV44R+Unxf+8byeoEO3AVlc6+6zgGESIWk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=VH0/QDbkW+ClZMjsOTMkGiHQnq/38p3mmvZHI4oOZb5yQUWnGQnRweYgeu+eCsfExq QtNEdManWLZTLshYMzrR0HGhHYYI3Pty0Z4ahwxLytQIrPb1r1hkeTZXKkdmNoecJiHW +HCrpyIJvpnzPKd6VpcoRYvvFVO3RGoitgrqQ= Received: by 10.65.133.12 with SMTP id k12mr12163339qbn.65.1228172920116; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.184.9 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:08:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:08:40 -0600 From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: david_5073@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20081124180411.0b065be5@wolwerine> <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, Marcello Barreto , freebsd-pf@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:36:26 -0000 > You should consider a commercial product rather than relying on > old and somewhat unreliable technology. We've been able to squeeze a > lot more customers onto our network for a $3500. investment. It paid for > itself in 2 months. We have a dual-core 2.33Ghz system passing 95Mb/s > with 12000 rules in place and it runs at about 10%. The latest version is > truly amazing. So I would like to hear some ideas on how we could use FreeBSD or any other BSD to limit bandwidth per customer( say one customer (with root access) per server ) I attended BSDCan 2008 in Canada this may, and I asked a few of the pfsense devlopers this exact question it was meet with limited feedback. I guess what I would like to know is What is the limitation of what we can achieve with FreeBSD would it be appropriate given the topic to cross post this to misc@openbsd.org? Sam Fourman Jr. Fourman Networks From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 00:19:57 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EE6E106564A for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:19:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.168]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317348FC1A for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:19:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 30so2747541ugs.39 for ; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:19:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=OnM0ZufUwKju/RZUTHElzN0x2Z142XDyPw+uwzGWlEo=; b=S6/kmLg1xXGfSajIdtB4X+fi+jO+LkV14VKuVpqE/529ZjB6sZ2/ppd7THvqEM37Ox VsyvxQ+Tbt3btCz1ZiHLWqK231UA5EfTFgVt7BMVmPqhgLGU1W4UXYkvqDonDv/5hfzm CD/b/NZUH3qX9sQb9iBFHzhMiMtz+VgNjtApQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=UuAYh/CySFHDv0LB9E6wFbQ21cdqR8DxH99SnE1G8AivxXgQZeDRYRJLQJwAsJ4oZd 4Oh7HRUhWZAwqVZblgO+wFIZ7ekc2h9AnYSIgccLGuKB0PbphTepgdn76OHAzrxSCWdH mWLgROo2qqn4v888YrVwP8V8jKz13WvUjW+2U= Received: by 10.103.172.7 with SMTP id z7mr4871752muo.15.1228175677312; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.103.1.7 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:54:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:54:37 -0500 From: "Scott Ullrich" To: "Sam Fourman Jr." In-Reply-To: <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20081124180411.0b065be5@wolwerine> <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, david_5073@yahoo.com, Marcello Barreto , freebsd-pf@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:19:57 -0000 On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Sam Fourman Jr. wrote: >> You should consider a commercial product rather than relying on >> old and somewhat unreliable technology. We've been able to squeeze a >> lot more customers onto our network for a $3500. investment. It paid for >> itself in 2 months. We have a dual-core 2.33Ghz system passing 95Mb/s >> with 12000 rules in place and it runs at about 10%. The latest version is >> truly amazing. > > So I would like to hear some ideas on how we could use FreeBSD or any other BSD > to limit bandwidth per customer( say one customer (with root access) > per server ) > > I attended BSDCan 2008 in Canada this may, and I asked a few of the > pfsense devlopers this exact question > it was meet with limited feedback. There was not much to report at that point. However, pfSense 2.0 has per user bandwidth ported from DragonFlyBSD. If you would like to test the patch, it is located here: http://cvs.pfsense.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/tools/patches/RELENG_7_1/fairq.RELENG_7.diff?rev=1.3;content-type=text%2Fplain Scott From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 09:12:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3581106564A; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:12:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antik@bsd.ee) Received: from sorbesgroup.com (mail.sorbesgroup.com [217.159.241.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B028FC0C; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:12:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antik@bsd.ee) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by sorbesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A1F3C506CC; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:42:06 +0200 (EET) Received: from sorbesgroup.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sorbesgroup.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01540-02; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:42:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from [192.168.0.80] (andrei [192.168.0.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sorbesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE7783C5038C; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:42:03 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4934F4F3.1030808@bsd.ee> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:42:27 +0200 From: Andrei Kolu User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (Windows/20081105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy , freebsd-pf@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <20081124180411.0b065be5@wolwerine> <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> <20081202075634.GT51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <20081202075634.GT51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Cc: Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:12:33 -0000 Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2008-Dec-01 17:08:40 -0600, "Sam Fourman Jr." wrote: > >> So I would like to hear some ideas on how we could use FreeBSD or any other BSD >> to limit bandwidth per customer( say one customer (with root access) >> per server ) >> > > That description sounds like it simplifies to "limit bandwidth based on > IP address" - which is fairly trivial for ipfw+dummynet or pf+altq. > > ipfw+dummynet is really ugly traffic "shaper" (let's face it there is no shaping going on), because instead of limiting bandwidth it will drop packets to simulate bad connection. I hear many years about "trivial" configuration per user bandwidth limit with pf+altq but never saw ANY code... You can't set bandwidth limit with PF like 3Mbit per 100 clients if your lan card is 100Mbit. This is just lame- in reality clients never use all bandwidth and never all clients are connected all the time. Even Linux ipfilter does it for years with insane cryptic commandline but it just works. > ipfw+dummynet can also filter on uid/gid but I believe there are some > race conditions in that code > > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 09:22:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DBC1065672; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail15.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail15.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84A4B8FC19; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail15.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id mB29M4Sx026680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:22:06 +1100 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id mB29M4fr058669; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:22:04 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id mB29M4Fg058668; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:22:04 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:22:04 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Andrei Kolu Message-ID: <20081202092204.GU51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <20081124180411.0b065be5@wolwerine> <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> <20081202075634.GT51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <4934F4F3.1030808@bsd.ee> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lYjFa3qL1bvncypl" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4934F4F3.1030808@bsd.ee> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-pf@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:22:14 -0000 --lYjFa3qL1bvncypl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Dec-02 10:42:27 +0200, Andrei Kolu wrote: >> That description sounds like it simplifies to "limit bandwidth based on >> IP address" - which is fairly trivial for ipfw+dummynet or pf+altq. >> =20 >ipfw+dummynet is really ugly traffic "shaper" (let's face it there is no= =20 >shaping going on), because instead of limiting bandwidth it will drop=20 >packets to simulate bad connection. I've been using ipfw+dummynet for traffic shaping for 7 or 8 years without problems (and have recently moved to pf+dummynet). I don't understand your comment about limiting bandwidth: An incoming packet is put on a queue that is emptied at no more than the (simulated) available outbound bandwidth. If the queue is full then incoming packets will be dropped. This is the same behaviour as any other router (or switch). What do you want/expect? > I hear many years about "trivial"=20 >configuration per user bandwidth limit with pf+altq but never saw ANY=20 >code... Note that I never mentioned per-user bandwidth with pf+altq - though it looks possible. There are some trivial traffic-shaping examples in pf.conf(5) but I will admit that I've never tried to actually use altq - I use dummynet because I need functionality that isn't present in altq. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --lYjFa3qL1bvncypl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkk0/jwACgkQ/opHv/APuIcOugCgo8LM3HE/0oSzFy0HbcffjFm+ jaYAoJ3GQW98vGR9Szi2XyiM0dJoG1ek =xp16 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lYjFa3qL1bvncypl-- From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 13:03:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B341065675 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:03:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eculp@encontacto.net) Received: from ns2.bafirst.com (72-12-2-19.static.networktel.net [72.12.2.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9938FC1B for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:03:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eculp@encontacto.net) Received: from HOME.encontacto.net ([189.129.8.53]) by ns2.bafirst.com with esmtp; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:03:44 -0600 id 000D52E4.49353230.00005F27 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 80) by HOME.encontacto.net with local; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:03:43 -0600 id 0004AC1A.4935322F.0000B2FC Received: from ed.local.net.mx (ed.local.net.mx [192.168.1.65]) by econet.encontacto.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:03:43 -0600 Message-ID: <20081202070343.34221p9405nzs76s@econet.encontacto.net> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:03:43 -0600 From: eculp To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <20081124180411.0b065be5@wolwerine> <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> <20081202075634.GT51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <4934F4F3.1030808@bsd.ee> <20081202092204.GU51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <20081202092204.GU51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (5.0-cvs) X-Remote-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.18) Gecko/20081114 Firefox/2.0.0.18 X-IMP-Server: 189.129.8.53 X-Originating-IP: 192.168.1.65 X-Originating-User: eculp@encontacto.net Cc: freebsd-pf Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:03:46 -0000 Quoting Peter Jeremy : > On 2008-Dec-02 10:42:27 +0200, Andrei Kolu wrote: >>> That description sounds like it simplifies to "limit bandwidth based on >>> IP address" - which is fairly trivial for ipfw+dummynet or pf+altq. >>> >> ipfw+dummynet is really ugly traffic "shaper" (let's face it there is no >> shaping going on), because instead of limiting bandwidth it will drop >> packets to simulate bad connection. > > I've been using ipfw+dummynet for traffic shaping for 7 or 8 years > without problems (and have recently moved to pf+dummynet). I don't > understand your comment about limiting bandwidth: An incoming packet > is put on a queue that is emptied at no more than the (simulated) > available outbound bandwidth. If the queue is full then incoming > packets will be dropped. This is the same behaviour as any other > router (or switch). > > What do you want/expect? > >> I hear many years about "trivial" >> configuration per user bandwidth limit with pf+altq but never saw ANY >> code... > > Note that I never mentioned per-user bandwidth with pf+altq - though > it looks possible. There are some trivial traffic-shaping examples in > pf.conf(5) but I will admit that I've never tried to actually use altq > - I use dummynet because I need functionality that isn't present in > altq. I had forgotten that dummynet can be used with pf. Maybe i should =20 start this with a new subject but it is directly related in that I =20 need bandwidth control again that I don=B4t have since changing to pf. o- What needs to be patched/done to make them work together on Current and Releng? o- Are you happier with the combination of dummynet with pf than with IPFW? DummyNet was one of the reasons that I was slow to leave IPFW. Thanks and I am really not trying to hijack this thread, be glad to =20 start a new one. ed From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 17:40:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0EED106564A for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:40:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f18.google.com (mail-qy0-f18.google.com [209.85.221.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D588FC17 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:40:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: by qyk11 with SMTP id 11so3629436qyk.19 for ; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:40:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=U0s/N9XB1fzn5St/DGmqJfNT8Ith1wmTO1ZoIsjjnqE=; b=v3GFqi5vgiwF61M/eOTJjgePJyYeQ2QZdkVkv7o0cevT+vJyvge8TZJQUKi586NvdQ hyNLVdbXkuFTtsXzPFMIE3sedt4+1uANnS5fg5eOe90OBKaxcKZNcP0xAe5KcwiS5wz/ tA6+2sgmk5NFieGJsZKfyQZ1RUHNWCjVVQKMY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=KKp7qxb6wjN0hIdBpUOP3iueeuajwayz8pugpEye9VKuw+FRd21Vh4lZLfF5iEaEUk rf6S4vTeXNRrNdEKr8ffaE33jyA0g+5KTlHkFPcf93XVsok6lJ3fC5XGC7Qf16PEi8QY DXDMfYPyUQyzxn/Bq5yz5VsCY4tWPqk0UoXG8= Received: by 10.65.204.2 with SMTP id g2mr13003778qbq.45.1228239628670; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.184.9 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:40:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11167f520812020940w423bf0cco466a3423f762b291@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:40:28 -0600 From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: eculp In-Reply-To: <20081202070343.34221p9405nzs76s@econet.encontacto.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20081124180411.0b065be5@wolwerine> <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> <20081202075634.GT51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <4934F4F3.1030808@bsd.ee> <20081202092204.GU51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <20081202070343.34221p9405nzs76s@econet.encontacto.net> Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-pf Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:40:30 -0000 > I had forgotten that dummynet can be used with pf. Maybe i should start t= his > with a new subject but it is directly related in that I need bandwidth > control again that I don=B4t have since changing to pf. > > o- What needs to be patched/done to make them work together > on Current and Releng? > o- Are you happier with the combination of dummynet with pf > than with IPFW? > > DummyNet was one of the reasons that I was slow to leave IPFW. > > Thanks and I am really not trying to hijack this thread, be glad to start= a > new one. so you actually can use DummyNet w/ pf to limit bandwidth per ip? is there anyway to say.. ip address x must be used with MAC Address y then follow the per ip bandwidth limit if not then drop all traffic in and out? Sam Fourman Jr. Fourman Networks From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 18:08:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC751065673 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:08:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f18.google.com (mail-qy0-f18.google.com [209.85.221.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869E88FC18 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:08:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: by qyk11 with SMTP id 11so3650671qyk.19 for ; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:08:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Mqj/z4FqI1UnQ5DhZlzrlHNYwI8MowSL+LJmhR7vTdE=; b=GpL79wiXWFKxjU0X793vP/U1kwEItl4dFmoHkEDmFO/Sj1D4dEJmeUSYgGsdb3ZYhu p0CVwpG8jZ3Azts17mKAQatmS1jZklCgt5Al82IfdyH6vdxihmoVJa+Ti1tj7jT6Z05W cbpJznJnsINQDxZOw52pJ42VvEoyuP7jIAe50= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=JVR0T0QoQt2KlxGa080Vw4rMkrFJvGnbZH+imoGrxVHfgVUHljnrirxfxY45FsPfnS Lf4Y0pRSCkdQbo53rYgVmBWyXQp8z800wwG4rXzBs+PmkN2oM77OQvpehqsxuBsDpGbI BnpLjgJUcEbO2if/pfNnyRcBFcE7bWGRIsfL4= Received: by 10.64.232.9 with SMTP id e9mr13020698qbh.13.1228241328017; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.184.9 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:08:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11167f520812021008r13cb927cy409af862f0bbaa9e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:08:47 -0600 From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: kstalledo@binarysalad.com In-Reply-To: <493575F7.7020904@binarysalad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20081124180411.0b065be5@wolwerine> <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> <20081202075634.GT51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <4934F4F3.1030808@bsd.ee> <20081202092204.GU51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <20081202070343.34221p9405nzs76s@econet.encontacto.net> <11167f520812020940w423bf0cco466a3423f762b291@mail.gmail.com> <493575F7.7020904@binarysalad.com> Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-pf Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:08:50 -0000 On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Kahlil Erwin Talledo wrote: > Sam Fourman Jr. wrote: >>> I had forgotten that dummynet can be used with pf. Maybe i should start= this >>> with a new subject but it is directly related in that I need bandwidth >>> control again that I don=B4t have since changing to pf. >>> >>> o- What needs to be patched/done to make them work together >>> on Current and Releng? >>> o- Are you happier with the combination of dummynet with pf >>> than with IPFW? >>> >>> DummyNet was one of the reasons that I was slow to leave IPFW. >>> >>> Thanks and I am really not trying to hijack this thread, be glad to sta= rt a >>> new one. >> >> so you actually can use DummyNet w/ pf to limit bandwidth per ip? >> >> is there anyway to say.. ip address x must be used with MAC Address y >> then follow the per ip bandwidth limit >> if not then drop all traffic in and out? > > you have to remember that mac is layer two and it can be easily spoofed. > so doing it that way might not be the best thing to do it. that's just > my two cents though. you are absolutely right, after thinking about it a bit more, the right idea would be to somehow limit bandwidth per ip or group of ip's(several bound to the same interface) any ideas? Sam Fourman Jr. Fourman Networks From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 19:03:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF2F1065686; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:03:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kstalledo@binarysalad.com) Received: from li41-209.members.linode.com (li41-209.members.linode.com [72.14.179.209]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C028FC27; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:03:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kstalledo@binarysalad.com) Received: from [76.76.164.30] (helo=Kais-Macbook-Pro.local) by li41-209.members.linode.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L7ZRS-0004b0-9J; Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:53:46 -0500 Message-ID: <493575F7.7020904@binarysalad.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:52:55 -0400 From: Kahlil Erwin Talledo Organization: Binary Salad Solutions User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Macintosh/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sam Fourman Jr." References: <20081124180411.0b065be5@wolwerine> <705757.42117.qm@web38504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <11167f520812011508u46b04e7dmb1d5d22675dc778d@mail.gmail.com> <20081202075634.GT51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <4934F4F3.1030808@bsd.ee> <20081202092204.GU51761@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <20081202070343.34221p9405nzs76s@econet.encontacto.net> <11167f520812020940w423bf0cco466a3423f762b291@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <11167f520812020940w423bf0cco466a3423f762b291@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - li41-209.members.linode.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - binarysalad.com Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-pf Subject: Re: PF + ALTQ - Bandwidth per customer X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: kstalledo@binarysalad.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:03:13 -0000 Sam Fourman Jr. wrote: >> I had forgotten that dummynet can be used with pf. Maybe i should start this >> with a new subject but it is directly related in that I need bandwidth >> control again that I donīt have since changing to pf. >> >> o- What needs to be patched/done to make them work together >> on Current and Releng? >> o- Are you happier with the combination of dummynet with pf >> than with IPFW? >> >> DummyNet was one of the reasons that I was slow to leave IPFW. >> >> Thanks and I am really not trying to hijack this thread, be glad to start a >> new one. > > so you actually can use DummyNet w/ pf to limit bandwidth per ip? > > is there anyway to say.. ip address x must be used with MAC Address y > then follow the per ip bandwidth limit > if not then drop all traffic in and out? you have to remember that mac is layer two and it can be easily spoofed. so doing it that way might not be the best thing to do it. that's just my two cents though. > > Sam Fourman Jr. > Fourman Networks > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 19:36:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E7C106564A for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:36:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulo@nlink.com.br) Received: from smtp.nlink.com.br (smtp.nlink.com.br [201.12.59.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D43BB8FC0A for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:36:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulo@nlink.com.br) Received: (qmail 29182 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2008 19:10:01 -0000 Received: from j1.nlink.com.br (paulo@intra.nlink.com.br@201.12.59.126) by smtp.nlink.com.br with SMTP; 2 Dec 2008 19:10:01 -0000 Message-ID: <49358809.9040408@nlink.com.br> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:10:01 -0300 From: Paulo Fragoso User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20081030) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Stream servers recomendations X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:36:47 -0000 Hi, I've already used RealServer on FreeBSD at 1999, but now there isn't RealServer for FreeBSD and its licenses are more expensive than 1999. Can I get similar results using Darwin Streaming Server for FreeBSD? What is the best solution using server running FreeBSD? Paulo. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 20:10:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041DC106564A for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:10:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@neuropunks.org) Received: from finn.neuropunks.org (finn.neuropunks.org [69.31.43.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C958D8FC12 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:10:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@neuropunks.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by finn.neuropunks.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D808E28550 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:55:26 -0500 (EST) Authentication-Results: finn.neuropunks.org; domainkeys=pass header.from=max@neuropunks.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at neuropunks.org Received: from finn.neuropunks.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (finn.neuropunks.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oAv727U0Y8Hr for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:55:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.10.81] (unknown [63.118.5.249]) by finn.neuropunks.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F2EA0284FF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:55:25 -0500 (EST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=finn; d=neuropunks.org; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XX6f/6E8BjpSLvlk31+1sH7xtiF+qPZTVzb8gNHgiH+8DA4LqrECAU2g+AkUAfBLv 5Y7+lNSxYpBD1aDtGfcjBshWKQWCsOxa6NhmXZVMrG7uTcTmKwjx31Cecbr9v7H/aj5 +eR1RVg+UWrzh7Z6AglDPoiAZ0FI0Prho+a+wt0= Message-ID: <493592AD.1020604@neuropunks.org> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:55:25 -0500 From: Max Gribov User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (X11/20080925) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <49358809.9040408@nlink.com.br> In-Reply-To: <49358809.9040408@nlink.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Stream servers recomendations X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:10:45 -0000 Paulo Fragoso wrote: > Hi, > > I've already used RealServer on FreeBSD at 1999, but now there isn't > RealServer for FreeBSD and its licenses are more expensive than 1999. > For audio i've used icecast and shoutcast successfully, worked very well. could never get darwin to work, but that was fbsd 5.2.1 on sparc64 so you may have better luck.. > Can I get similar results using Darwin Streaming Server for FreeBSD? > > What is the best solution using server running FreeBSD? > > Paulo. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 20:41:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD4C1065672 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:41:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@optinet.com) Received: from cobra.acceleratedweb.net (cobra-gw.acceleratedweb.net [207.99.79.37]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0AD968FC12 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:41:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from simon@optinet.com) Received: (qmail 42202 invoked by uid 110); 2 Dec 2008 20:15:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO desktop1) (simon%optinet.com@69.113.73.210) by cobra.acceleratedweb.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 2008 20:15:12 -0000 From: "Simon" To: "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:15:16 -0500 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.20.2717) For Windows 2000 (5.1.2600;3) In-Reply-To: <49358809.9040408@nlink.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20081202204154.0AD968FC12@mx1.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Stream servers recomendations X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:41:54 -0000 Flash streaming is the new way to stream, not sure if they have it for FBSD, though. Would be interested to hear some responses, as well. -Simon On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:10:01 -0300, Paulo Fragoso wrote: >Hi, >I've already used RealServer on FreeBSD at 1999, but now there isn't >RealServer for FreeBSD and its licenses are more expensive than 1999. >Can I get similar results using Darwin Streaming Server for FreeBSD? >What is the best solution using server running FreeBSD? >Paulo. >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 11:01:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2711065675 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:01:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from monitor@1stnewsletters.com) Received: from smtp.1stinfosystems.com (ns1.1stinfosystems.com [207.178.197.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10C48FC0A for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:01:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from monitor@1stnewsletters.com) Received: from mail pickup service by smtp.1stinfosystems.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 03:01:06 -0800 From: "Jeff Kelley, DDS" X-NEWSLETTER1R: pTmmgXO3F4C78zgpFlpFOOcGt+c= X-NEWSLETTER2A: 000036084 To: "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <60bebce607ca4e609c63229f05804bbd@1stnewsletters.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 03:01:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2008 11:01:06.0147 (UTC) FILETIME=[C55DB330:01C956C8] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: A Holiday Survival Guide for Your Smile! X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jakelleydds@sbcglobal.net List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:01:16 -0000 Greetings from Jeff Kelley, DDS! A Holiday Survival Guide for Your Smile The holidays are upon us, and =91tis the season for a bit of togetherne= ss (and a lot of indulgence)=2E We don=92t all celebrate the same holid= ays or adhere to the same belief systems, but there is one thing that s= eems to unite us all: comfort food=2E Cold weather and sweets go hand-in-hand=2E What=92s a good snowball fig= ht without a warm cup of cocoa to come home to? Even in warmer climates= , it=92s difficult to dissuade dreams of sugar plums after a good night= of classic movies with your family=2E So, while this "soul food" may b= e good for your spirits, take a moment to think about what it=92s doing= to your teeth=2E How Could Something So Good Be So Bad? Sugar can wreck havoc on your pearly whites=2E It=92s a complicated pro= cess, but here=92s the scoop=2E Bacteria in your mouth use your sweets = as energy, growing and multiplying faster than they would otherwise=2E = Some bond with the sugar to form a sticky glue called plaque=2E Plaque,= in turn, produces acid=2E The acid dissolves the minerals that make yo= ur tooth enamel hard, and the surface becomes porous=2E The acid causes= these tiny holes in the enamel to become bigger until one large hole a= ppears=2E This is a cavity=2E Does This Mean No More? While ideally we would never expose our teeth to sugar or anything else= that promotes tooth decay, that=92s just not realistic=2E All we can d= o is try to minimize the damage=2E Don=92t let your holiday routine int= errupt your dental care regimen=2E Brush your teeth at least twice a da= y with a fluoride toothpaste (unless you=92re a young tyke), and floss = at least once=2E If you decide to indulge in more sweets than usual, it=92s a good idea = to brush more often=2E If you don=92t have your toothbrush on hand, rin= se your mouth out with warm water=2E Certain sugar-free gums can help a= s well=2E Choose those with Xylitol, an artificial sweetener that can h= elp prevent tooth decay=2E And finally, try to mix up your snacks=2E If= you=92re eating a sugary treat, try to also eat a bit of cheese (or a = similar protein) as well=2E Nothing warms a chilly night like a big smile, so be sure to protect yo= urs=2E Please do not hesitate to call us at (817)877-1651 if you have q= uestions regarding proper dental care, or would like to schedule a chec= k-up or cleaning=2E As always, your continued good health is our top pr= iority=2E If you have questions regarding dental health, please call our office a= t (817)877-1651 or email us at jakelleydds@sbcglobal=2Enet today=2E Best Regards, Jeff Kelley, DDS P=2ES=2E If you have any friends or family members who you feel could u= se our services, please don't hesitate to have them call us=2E We'll be= sure to take good care of them=2E From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 11:43:23 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE46B106567A for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:43:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from monitor@1stnewsletters.com) Received: from smtp.1stinfosystems.com (ns1.1stinfosystems.com [207.178.197.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33B98FC21 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:43:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from monitor@1stnewsletters.com) Received: from mail pickup service by smtp.1stinfosystems.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 03:43:20 -0800 From: "Dr. Josh Leute" X-NEWSLETTER1R: pTmmgXO3F4C78zgpFlpFOOcGt+c= X-NEWSLETTER2A: 000036191 To: "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 03:43:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2008 11:43:20.0694 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC12E160:01C956CE] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: A Holiday Survival Guide for Your Smile! X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: drleute@familydentistportwashington.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:43:23 -0000 Greetings from Dr=2E Josh Leute! A Holiday Survival Guide for Your Smile The holidays are upon us, and =91tis the season for a bit of togetherne= ss (and a lot of indulgence)=2E We don=92t all celebrate the same holid= ays or adhere to the same belief systems, but there is one thing that s= eems to unite us all: comfort food=2E Cold weather and sweets go hand-in-hand=2E What=92s a good snowball fig= ht without a warm cup of cocoa to come home to? Even in warmer climates= , it=92s difficult to dissuade dreams of sugar plums after a good night= of classic movies with your family=2E So, while this "soul food" may b= e good for your spirits, take a moment to think about what it=92s doing= to your teeth=2E How Could Something So Good Be So Bad? Sugar can wreck havoc on your pearly whites=2E It=92s a complicated pro= cess, but here=92s the scoop=2E Bacteria in your mouth use your sweets = as energy, growing and multiplying faster than they would otherwise=2E = Some bond with the sugar to form a sticky glue called plaque=2E Plaque,= in turn, produces acid=2E The acid dissolves the minerals that make yo= ur tooth enamel hard, and the surface becomes porous=2E The acid causes= these tiny holes in the enamel to become bigger until one large hole a= ppears=2E This is a cavity=2E Does This Mean No More? While ideally we would never expose our teeth to sugar or anything else= that promotes tooth decay, that=92s just not realistic=2E All we can d= o is try to minimize the damage=2E Don=92t let your holiday routine int= errupt your dental care regimen=2E Brush your teeth at least twice a da= y with a fluoride toothpaste (unless you=92re a young tyke), and floss = at least once=2E If you decide to indulge in more sweets than usual, it=92s a good idea = to brush more often=2E If you don=92t have your toothbrush on hand, rin= se your mouth out with warm water=2E Certain sugar-free gums can help a= s well=2E Choose those with Xylitol, an artificial sweetener that can h= elp prevent tooth decay=2E And finally, try to mix up your snacks=2E If= you=92re eating a sugary treat, try to also eat a bit of cheese (or a = similar protein) as well=2E Nothing warms a chilly night like a big smile, so be sure to protect yo= urs=2E Please do not hesitate to call us at (262)284-5884 if you have q= uestions regarding proper dental care, or would like to schedule a chec= k-up or cleaning=2E As always, your continued good health is our top pr= iority=2E If you have questions regarding dental health, please call our office a= t (262)284-5884 or email us at drleute@familydentistportwashington=2Eco= m today=2E Best Regards, Dr=2E Josh Leute P=2ES=2E If you have any friends or family members who you feel could u= se our services, please don't hesitate to have them call us=2E We'll be= sure to take good care of them=2E From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 12:38:57 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9CE106567F for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 12:38:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from monitor@1stnewsletters.com) Received: from smtp.1stinfosystems.com (ns1.1stinfosystems.com [207.178.197.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15ECE8FC18 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 12:38:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from monitor@1stnewsletters.com) Received: from mail pickup service by smtp.1stinfosystems.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Dec 2008 04:38:54 -0800 From: "Dr. Julian H. Zhitnitsky" X-NEWSLETTER1R: pTmmgXO3F4C78zgpFlpFOOcGt+c= X-NEWSLETTER2A: 000036314 To: "freebsd-isp@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <558aeab0be254d7c898cc0d4a005b069@1stnewsletters.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:38:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2008 12:38:54.0147 (UTC) FILETIME=[6EF77130:01C956D6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: A Holiday Survival Guide for Your Smile! X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: drz@dentistsherwood.com List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:38:57 -0000 Greetings from Dr=2E Julian H=2E Zhitnitsky! A Holiday Survival Guide for Your Smile The holidays are upon us, and =91tis the season for a bit of togetherne= ss (and a lot of indulgence)=2E We don=92t all celebrate the same holid= ays or adhere to the same belief systems, but there is one thing that s= eems to unite us all: comfort food=2E Cold weather and sweets go hand-in-hand=2E What=92s a good snowball fig= ht without a warm cup of cocoa to come home to? Even in warmer climates= , it=92s difficult to dissuade dreams of sugar plums after a good night= of classic movies with your family=2E So, while this "soul food" may b= e good for your spirits, take a moment to think about what it=92s doing= to your teeth=2E How Could Something So Good Be So Bad? Sugar can wreck havoc on your pearly whites=2E It=92s a complicated pro= cess, but here=92s the scoop=2E Bacteria in your mouth use your sweets = as energy, growing and multiplying faster than they would otherwise=2E = Some bond with the sugar to form a sticky glue called plaque=2E Plaque,= in turn, produces acid=2E The acid dissolves the minerals that make yo= ur tooth enamel hard, and the surface becomes porous=2E The acid causes= these tiny holes in the enamel to become bigger until one large hole a= ppears=2E This is a cavity=2E Does This Mean No More? While ideally we would never expose our teeth to sugar or anything else= that promotes tooth decay, that=92s just not realistic=2E All we can d= o is try to minimize the damage=2E Don=92t let your holiday routine int= errupt your dental care regimen=2E Brush your teeth at least twice a da= y with a fluoride toothpaste (unless you=92re a young tyke), and floss = at least once=2E If you decide to indulge in more sweets than usual, it=92s a good idea = to brush more often=2E If you don=92t have your toothbrush on hand, rin= se your mouth out with warm water=2E Certain sugar-free gums can help a= s well=2E Choose those with Xylitol, an artificial sweetener that can h= elp prevent tooth decay=2E And finally, try to mix up your snacks=2E If= you=92re eating a sugary treat, try to also eat a bit of cheese (or a = similar protein) as well=2E Nothing warms a chilly night like a big smile, so be sure to protect yo= urs=2E Please do not hesitate to call us at (818)785-8388 if you have q= uestions regarding proper dental care, or would like to schedule a chec= k-up or cleaning=2E As always, your continued good health is our top pr= iority=2E If you have questions regarding dental health, please call our office a= t (818)785-8388 or email us at drz@dentistsherwood=2Ecom today=2E Best Regards, Dr=2E Julian H=2E Zhitnitsky P=2ES=2E If you have any friends or family members who you feel could u= se our services, please don't hesitate to have them call us=2E We'll be= sure to take good care of them=2E