From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Jan 24 02:22:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA10596 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 02:22:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA10590 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 02:22:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA17890; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:25:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990124212533.B17658@caamora.com.au> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:25:33 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD - A User's Point of View Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990124201556.E36690@freebie.lemis.com> <199901240949.BAA17434@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199901240949.BAA17434@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 01:49:14AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 01:49:14AM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > >>> I'd be a whole lot happier if people wouldn't make statements like > >>> this. If it's evil, explain. If you don't know any good reasons, > >>> don't spread misinformation. > >> > >> The Linux filesystem, or ext2fs, if I'm not mistaken by default caches > >> writes to the disk. If the machine should suddenly go down, power > >> failure, unexpected crash, etc..., this information doesn't make it back > >> to the disk. I've known many a Linux user who has lost _entire_ file > >> systems due to this. > > > >UFS does this too. > > Uh, he's talking about metadata, and no FFS does not cache metadata > writes by default. we, those on comp..freebsd.misc have had this discussion before, please don;t tell terry were on again for 12 rounds. its not terry i an worried about its teh rest of the people who had such convincing opinion about why he was so wrong. otherwise it was a very interesting discussion, i learnt a lot, just to keep up. > >> It surprises me that the Linux vendors don't turn this 'feature' off by > >> default. They could include in the doc's an explanation of why it's > >> turned off and give the users instructions on how to turn it back on, if > >> they like. > > > >I don't know if it's possible to turn it off in Linux. You can't turn > >it off in UFS either. In fact, the manner in which disk writes are > >cached is pretty central to FreeBSD's performance. > > Actually, prior to softupdates, FreeBSD's filesystem performance wasn't > very good compared to ext2fs for the very reason that ext2fs is "fast and > loose" by defering metadata writes. This has the downside of making ext2fs > filesystem integrity unreliable in the face of a system crash or power > failure. FFS does not have this problem, but is much slower as a result. ok to laod gun, just please don't shoot just yet. is this softupdates teh same as a journaling filesystem, if not is freebsd going to evolve such a creature ? what would teh arguments be one way ot the other, please. regards jonathan -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message