From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 28 15:45:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB0C16A423 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:45:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from mv.twc.weather.com (mv.twc.weather.com [65.212.71.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B9F343D5F for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:45:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from [10.50.41.234] (Not Verified[10.50.41.234]) by mv.twc.weather.com with NetIQ MailMarshal (v6, 0, 3, 8) id ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:02:13 -0400 From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:25:15 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.2 References: <20051027133336.GA740@node26.0xfce3.net> <20051027170709.GB1901@node26.0xfce3.net> <200510271147.13917.peter@wemm.org> In-Reply-To: <200510271147.13917.peter@wemm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510281025.16527.jhb@freebsd.org> Cc: Gordon Bergling , phk@phk.freebsd.dk Subject: Re: wscons for FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:45:39 -0000 On Thursday 27 October 2005 02:47 pm, Peter Wemm wrote: > On Thursday 27 October 2005 10:07 am, Gordon Bergling wrote: > > * Thus spake M. Warner Losh (imp@bsdimp.com): > > > In message: <20051027134919.GA858@node26.0xfce3.net> > > > > > > Gordon Bergling writes: > > > : * Thus spake Poul-Henning Kamp (phk@phk.freebsd.dk): > > > : > In message <20051027133336.GA740@node26.0xfce3.net>, Gordon > > Bergling writes: > > > : > >I am currently working on project, which refactors a lot of > > > : > > FreeBSDs console code. > > > : > > > > : > Sorry for nitpicking, but just to make sure we're clear about > > > : > what we talk about here: > > > : > > > > : > When you say "console", do you mean > > > : > "vga+keyboard" ? > > > : > or > > > : > "printf(9) destination" ? > > > : > or > > > : > "/dev/console" ? > > > : > or all of the above ? > > > : > > > : What I mean was 'all of the above'. My projects aims to modernize > > > : FreeBSDs console in a big picture. That whould range from > > > : "simple" vga + keyboard to a possible machine indepent > > > : framebuffer API. > > > > > > wscons in NetBSD can be a console (as in /dev/console) destination. > > > Much like sio(4) can be a console in FreeBSD. However, it is > > > really a framework for integrating one or more frame buffers (vga), > > > with zero or more keyboards and mice into a coherent input system. > > > > > > It is more of a syscons replacement than a solution to the > > > 'console' issues that you've been keen on working out. > > > > With other words, its something desireable to have at FreeBSD? > > A syscons replacement isn't such an enticing deal if it still leaves all > the 'console' issues. Changing something for the sake of change > without fixing the problems just causes transition pain for no benefit. > > Don't forget, we have to deal with the Xservers as well. Also things > like libvgl. syscons, with all its warts, runs on i386, amd64, alpha, > sparc64 and there are patches to make it work on ia64 around somewhere. > It works with multiple mice and (supposedly) multiple keyboards, but > that is more a function of external drivers (sysmouse and kbdmux etc). > I think a wscons port was attempted before, early in the sparc64 days, > but I don't remember that clearly. It is _really_ grotty on all but i386 and amd64 though. It would be nice to have a syscons replacement that truly does work well with framebuffers and isn't VGA centric. I think phk's console concerns are rather orthogonal to syscons vs. wscons. > Things that are personally crucial to me: > * Speed. (syscons is lightning fast) > * text mode mouse cursor with cut/paste that Just Works. > * cursor movement control code compatibility. No less than perfect > compatibility is good enough! The cons25 termcap entry has to work. * truly supports framebuffers as well as displays that can render text directly (i.e. VGA, EGA, etc.) * allows displays, keyboards, and mice to be tied together in arbitrary combinations such that each "console" can consist of zero-or-more displays, keyboards, and mice with well-defined behavior for what state is shared vs. private when multiple objects of the same class are connected to a single console. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org