From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 30 07:55:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E673616A4CE for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.169.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C03B843D45 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:55:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dereckhaskins@yahoo.com) Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.112.109?) (dereckhaskins@66.150.206.237 with plain) by smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2004 15:55:43 -0000 From: dereck To: John Von Essen In-Reply-To: <20040330101519.R2711@beck.quonix.net> References: <002f01c4165c$a0c0d1d0$6f01a8c0@miter.local> <20040330101519.R2711@beck.quonix.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.3 (1.0.3-4) Date: 30 Mar 2004 10:44:35 -0500 Message-Id: <1080661480.4341.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Website X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:55:44 -0000 John, 1. I agree with you that it is hard to get management to accept FreeBSD - perception is poor, though I'm not quite sure why. 2. I disagree that the website is to blame. I think it could use work, but as far as OSS software goes, it is pretty solid. (The search sucks, though :-) .) However, if you can do an alternative one there will be ways to get the people to use it. I for one encourage you to work on an alternative if you have time. 3. You management uses Solaris (!) - count your blessings. It could be FAR FAR worse!!! From my experience with [shall remain unnamed] *NIXES I'd rather deal with Solaris than any others apart from *BSD. But if your management moves to Linux, get another job :-). best, dereck On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 10:26, John Von Essen wrote: > This is an interesting point. Alot of big companies use FreeBSD, but under > the following conditions: > > 1. The lead/senior sysadmins are old FreeBSD guru's > 2. The systems that have FreeBSD installed are low-profile and can't be > easily spotted (audited). > 3. Management has loose control over their employees > > I am working for a large insurance company right now. Because, I love > FreeBSD, I have made an attempt to "slip" FreeBSD into the network - on > some backend mail servers, intranet web servers, etc.,. However, I still > have no chance of getting FreeBSD into, say, our production web server > pool. Management is brain-washed and all they know is Solaris, Solaris, > Solaris, IBM, IBM, IBM. > > And... It doesn't help when they go to freebsd.org. It makes FreeBSD seem > NON-enterprise. Personally, i think the site is fine, but Im a tech, not > a CTO. Maybe, freebsd.com can be redesigned have a suse.com or redhat.com > look-n-feel, and freebsd.org can retain - the developer community > look-n-feel. > > -john > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > > > Paul Robinson wrote: > > > > > [snip; poor formatting] > > > > > > > > > Well, this is the problem FreeBSD generally has. A lot of people would > > > actually like to see more developers move to FreeBSD and contribute to > > > the project. It then follows that as the "product" improves, we are able > > > to see a rise in the number of users. Pedantic, yes, but I'm becoming > > > less convinced of the need for us to get FreeBSD onto the family PC. I > > > would like to see it on a lot more developer's desks though. > > > > And in more companies. FreeBSD is already used by many (large) companies > > (including those in the Fortune 500). I know that even MS uses FreeBSD > > for the SFU software. > > > > > [snip; poor formatting] > > > > > > > > > Won't you expect the competition's product to be a better alternative to > > > the one you currently use? Do you honestly believe that OS choice is > > > dependent on what the website looks like? If so, how did Mandrake ever > > > take off? > > > > I have to agree here. > > > > > > > [snip; poor formatting] > > >> the moment it looks like a three column url listing with no > > >> really strong visual cues to things important to capturing, > > >> converting, and supporting new users. > > > > > > > > > Well, you know what the answer is then, don't you? You can grab the > > > source, talk to the web team, produce a better version. Remember it has > > > to be readable in text browsers, conform to WAI and Internationalisation > > > standards and everyone has to agree by mutual consent it's a better > > > design than the existing one. > > > > AMEN. This is a bikeshed that gets discussed every 6 or so months. > > Search advocacy@, doc@ and any number of other mailing lists for the > > amount of complaints about the webpage. As per the suggestion always > > posted that the FreeBSD page is too ``simple,'' my answer remains: > > > > http://www.google.com > > http://www.sun.com > > > > Simple, huh? > > > > As I stated on your other thread regarding the post on the ZDNet.au > > site; if you can't put up, shut up. I say that in a coarse manner not to > > be obtuse, but to discourage you and others from continuing with a > > bikeshed that nobody seems to care to fix. If you want to make a new > > site for FreeBSD, make a template, see what you can do, but don't expect > > it to be used. > > > > > [snip] > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Devon H. O'Dell > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"