From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 6 15:46: 7 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4902C37B401 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:46:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F64743FB1 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:46:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown[12.242.158.67]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01) with ESMTP id <2003020623460400100g3bqve>; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:46:04 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h16Niq5F036677 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:44:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id h16Nik5c036674; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:44:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object References: <20030205171407.A15358@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20030205190345.GD42936@roark.gnf.org> <20030205140726.407e150a.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> <3E41CFED.45413F33@kuzbass.ru> <20030206005639.V40993@12-234-22-23.pyvrag.nggov.pbz> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 06 Feb 2003 15:44:46 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20030206005639.V40993@12-234-22-23.pyvrag.nggov.pbz> Message-ID: Lines: 37 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug Barton writes: > [Please respect reply-to chat@freebsd.org, thanks] ... > Unfortunately, for a number of complex reasons, some of which have been > described publicly, and some of which are not appropriate to describe > publicly, the core team decided that it's no longer appropriate for Matt > to have this access to the cvs tree. Doug, your "reply-to" request makes you sound like a write-only chatter. Assuming that you're not, I'll respect your request, though I started to send it only to you to save the thread another message. You made good points and I don't disagree with the quote, but the tone of your message leads me to make these related comments: You surely understand how the silence about some of the reasons causes problems; maybe it's unavoidable, but it probably had worse consequences than more openness would have. But ends don't always justify means, and I won't mention it further. But the "end" of having non-hostile mailing lists and CVS logs might not justify the "means" of having people work under the threat of loss of privileges, based on judgements about whether they are polite enough, especially with suspicions of imperfect objectiveness in the absence of clear standards. Several core members have made it quite clear on -chat that the threshold reason that Matt lost his priviledge was that he was too impolite. Granted, this judgement has been put in core's hands, and their action was "legal" in the "FreeBSD legal system". But many people are complaining that the politeness threshold of individual core members and of the group are wrong, with some complainers finding it very wrong. (I've had my own encounter with this threshold and found it very wrong.) It need not be something to take personally; it's just a belief that FreeBSD would be better off with a (much?) looser attitude on the part of the Politeness Police. People are just trying to influence core's, and others', attitudes; elections aren't the only way to do that. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message