From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 3 13:30:17 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6441F106566B for ; Sat, 3 Dec 2011 13:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (bizet.nethelp.no [195.1.209.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BE71C8FC12 for ; Sat, 3 Dec 2011 13:30:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 49223 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2011 13:03:34 -0000 Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (HELO localhost) (195.1.209.33) by bizet.nethelp.no with SMTP; 3 Dec 2011 13:03:34 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 14:03:34 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20111203.140334.74707074.sthaug@nethelp.no> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: <4ED9EA27.8090206@inse.ru> References: <4ED974A2.7080606@FreeBSD.org> <4ED9EA27.8090206@inse.ru> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: CVS removal from the base X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2011 13:30:17 -0000 > > The fact that we have so many people who are radically change-averse, no > > matter how rational the change; is a bug, not a feature. > > > > This particular bug is complicated dramatically by the fact that the > > majority view seems to lean heavily towards "If I use it, it must be the > > default and/or in the base" rather than seeing ports as part of the > > overall operating SYSTEM. I don't think of myself as change-averse. I've been using FreeBSD since 1996, and there have been lots of changes since that time. But two of the most important reasons I still use FreeBSD are: - Stability: Both in the sense of "stays up basically forever", and in the sense of "changes to interfaces and commands are carefully thought through and not applied indiscriminately". For instance, I like very much the fact that the ifconfig command can configure VLANs etc - while Linux has introduced new commands to do this. - The base system is a *system* and comes with most of what I need, for instance tcpdump and BIND. For me the fact that I don't need to install lots of packages to have a usable system is a *good* thing. > You are right in general, except one small factor. We are talking about > bootstrap. > CVS is used by many as the one of the ways to get the sources to the freshly > installed system to recompile to the last available source. It will > become inconvenient > to do it through the process of installing some ports for that. > Especially if corresponding > ports would require some other ports as dependences. I use CVS (or rather csup) to keep the base system up to date. I would be perfectly okay with using a different utility - however, I would strongly prefer that this utility was included in the base system. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no