From owner-freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Wed Feb 26 21:18:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C196245BB8 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 21:18:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from colo1.denninger.net (colo1.denninger.net [104.236.120.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48STDF2xtSz4VQh for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 21:18:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from denninger.net (ip68-1-57-197.pn.at.cox.net [68.1.57.197]) by colo1.denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50932110DD for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 16:17:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (unknown [96.33.194.164]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1AC4B236A0B for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 15:17:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Showstoppers for RPI3 To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org References: <20200225175446.GA77976@www.zefox.net> <11951E01-EC13-4FBB-938A-AEB5700C4281@yahoo.com> <20200226052045.GA79939@www.zefox.net> <04e8e290e5d7bb810f76ece4ff33d6e1006e63cd.camel@freebsd.org> <9AF20341-AFCC-46BE-A2F2-96CF01655983@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> From: Karl Denninger Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 16:17:57 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9AF20341-AFCC-46BE-A2F2-96CF01655983@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms010203090008040104050104" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48STDF2xtSz4VQh X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=denninger.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of karl@denninger.net designates 104.236.120.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=karl@denninger.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.48 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arm@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[denninger.net,none]; IP_SCORE(-2.58)[ip: (-9.84), ipnet: 104.236.64.0/18(-4.44), asn: 14061(1.45), country: US(-0.05)]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[197.57.1.68.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~,4:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:104.236.64.0/18, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Porting FreeBSD to ARM processors." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 21:18:08 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010203090008040104050104 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/26/2020 3:41 PM, Paul Mather wrote: > All fair enough. I'm probably in the same boat as Bob Prohaska inasmuc= h as I have a couple of Raspberry Pi devices of varying vintages hanging = around. I'm a longtime FreeBSD user, so, naturally, I prefer to run Free= BSD on these devices, and have done so for a while (with varying degrees = of success/stability). > > It sounds from the above I shouldn't bother, for pain and misery will a= ttend me all my days as a result. :-) > > If Raspberry Pi is a crappy platform and a bad choice to use, FreeBSD-w= ise, what is the suggested alternative in the same low-power/low-price (a= nd Raspberry Pi-like spec) arena? Is it the Pine64 stuff like the PINE A= 64, ROCK64, and ROCKPro64?? > > I'm willing to buy something other than Raspberry Pi (I have a BeagleBo= ne Black, for example), but I don't want to buy something that is derided= and despised by FreeBSD developers and avoided by them like the plague. = I am not an ARM/SoC or electronics expert, so I feel unqualified to know= what is a "crappy ARM platform." > > Also, if the true situation with Raspberry Pi is that it is unlikely to= see development within FreeBSD, it would be more honest to deprecate the= platform officially on the FreeBSD site. I'd even go so far as to sugge= st not to distribute official images for it, as that carries with it a hi= nt of blessing and support. > > Cheers, > > Paul. I'm not at all sure that's reasonably fair, to be frank. I have Pis in both the "2" and "3" vintage running what I consider to be = production (and important) code.=C2=A0 Other than the issues that ALL Arm= =20 platforms have (e.g. lldb doesn't work right, so have fun debugging=20 things) I've had zero trouble with it.=C2=A0 In fact, I've got uptimes=20 recorded in the many-months timeframe, only limited by when the power=20 goes off and since I use them in a "NanoBSD" environment I don't much=20 care if/when that happens, since the things they talk to go off when the = power does too, and they've always come back up on their own. Are they perfect or even "excellent" platforms?=C2=A0 Not really.=C2=A0 T= he I/O is=20 a mess, but if you don't need more "oomph" in I/O capacity than they=20 have it doesn't matter (e.g. they make poor routers or firewalls, simply = because they don't have the necessary "oomph" through the network side=20 of things.) I'd be happy to move to something else too, provided it was something I=20 can get at a reasonable cost and does the things I need (specifically, I = need I2c and GPIO for the purposes I put these to.)=C2=A0 But... what is = the=20 "something" I should move to? --=20 -- Karl Denninger /The Market-Ticker/ S/MIME Email accepted and preferred --------------ms010203090008040104050104 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC DdgwggagMIIEiKADAgECAhMA5EiKghDOXrvfxYxjITXYDdhIMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGL MQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEQMA4GA1UECAwHRmxvcmlkYTESMBAGA1UEBwwJTmljZXZpbGxlMRkw FwYDVQQKDBBDdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgTExDMRgwFgYDVQQLDA9DdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgQ0ExITAf BgNVBAMMGEN1ZGEgU3lzdGVtcyBMTEMgMjAxNyBDQTAeFw0xNzA4MTcxNjQyMTdaFw0yNzA4 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