Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2018 23:46:59 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@berklix.com> To: Bryan Drewery <bdrewery@FreeBSD.org> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, deb@freebsdfoundation.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem Message-ID: <201803052247.w25Mkx7l031572@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: Your message "Mon, 05 Mar 2018 11:28:04 -0800." <55739682-e3d2-52fd-15a5-f89d16e2dcde@FreeBSD.org>
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Hi, Reference: > From: Bryan Drewery <bdrewery@FreeBSD.org> > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 11:28:04 -0800 Bryan Drewery wrote: > This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) > --Dfb89j1723L9zFot341vqJ5ixcKpqkUga > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="AWPme4oYHHsk3S0wyJ5qq8uBNKGZido2m"; > protected-headers="v1" > From: Bryan Drewery <bdrewery@FreeBSD.org> > To: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@berklix.com> > Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, deb@freebsdfoundation.org > Message-ID: <55739682-e3d2-52fd-15a5-f89d16e2dcde@FreeBSD.org> > Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem > References: <201803051909.w25J9b8s029105@fire.js.berklix.net> > In-Reply-To: <201803051909.w25J9b8s029105@fire.js.berklix.net> > > --AWPme4oYHHsk3S0wyJ5qq8uBNKGZido2m > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Content-Language: en-US > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > On 3/5/2018 11:09 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > Bryan Drewery wrote: > >> This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) > >> --oex5zYNtdOsHH7CGnZTm2mPFhuBKYldVo > >> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=3D"YJ0tBWvLQToy5jfzJdV74lsXFyK= > kOJvV1"; > >> protected-headers=3D"v1" > >> From: Bryan Drewery <bdrewery@FreeBSD.org> > >> To: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@berklix.com>, deb@freebsdfoundation.org > >> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org > >> Message-ID: <bf158178-ef20-5165-da34-839c1df79ca6@FreeBSD.org> > >> Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem > >> References: <201803050114.w251Dv53087353@fire.js.berklix.net> > >> In-Reply-To: <201803050114.w251Dv53087353@fire.js.berklix.net> > >> > >> --YJ0tBWvLQToy5jfzJdV74lsXFyKkOJvV1 > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8 > >> Content-Language: en-US > >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >> > >> On 3/4/2018 5:13 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >>> deb@freebsdfoundation.org wrote: > >>>> Hi David, > >>>> > >>>> This is Deb Goodkin, Executive Director for the FreeBSD Foundation. = > Th=3D > >> e > >>>> Foundation isn't responsible for the CoC, that would be the FreeBSD > >>>> Project's core team. Please don't spread mis-information about the > >>>> Foundation censoring discussions. Someone else on this thread can ho= > pe=3D > >> fully > >>>> direct you to the correct mailing list for discussing your concerns > >>>> regarding the Code of Conduct.=3D20 > >>>> > >>>> Sincerely, > >>>> > >>>> Deb Goodkin > >>>> Executive Director > >>>> The FreeBSD Foundation > >>> =3D20 > >>> Hi Deb, > >>> Did the foundation pay for it ?=3D20 > >> > >> The discussion needs to not demonize people or entities involved on > >> either side. > >=20 > > FreeBSD are at liberty to reject a non FreeBSD outsider who wrote this > > especially if they were paid to write it, even more so if the paid > > outsider hopes rules she/he wrote they'd like to see imposed on us. > >=20 > >=20 > >> It seems to me that it would have been better had this CoC > >> had more outside review and possibly a draft period where the project > >> asked for community feedback. > >=20 > > ** A draft & period for comment should have been mandatory, > > omiting it suggests arrogance or incompetence. > >=20 > >=20 > >> IMHO it's not too late to go down those > >> paths but we need to take a deep breath and consider that the intentio= > ns > >> of the CoC are only good; > >=20 > > Maybe, or not, See ** above. > >=20 > >=20 > >> that the project should be more welcoming for > >> everyone. There's nothing wrong with the Foundation sponsoring a CoC,= > > >> even if it had flaws. > >=20 > > I think legaly Foundation is not answerable to FreeBSD just to the > > few who founded the foundation. Nothing wrong with FreeBSD rejecting > > an unwanted gift as incompetent waste of money - if they want. > >=20 > >=20 > >> It likely would need to help sponsor independent > >> reviews to weed out unneutral language. > >=20 > > Whoever sprung this on FreeBSD community without warning should be admo= > nished. > >=20 > > FreeBSD Foundation could ask for a refund from the incompetent who > > wrote it, & Foundation in turn could refund those such as the person > > who asked "Can I have a refund". > >=20 > > The language and tone you are using only diminishes your voice, and > frankly violates any average or common sense CoC. This was not done by > 1 person or "outsider", it was done by a group of people and signed off > by core@ (as I understand it). I think mistakes were made but attacking > everyone involved won't achieve any positive results. Read https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html It's a mess of some sense & some ridiculous, force fed to FreeBSD. Expect some not to like force feeding, or proponents thereof. Expect forceful opposition to force feeding. We're waiting for Deb to say if Foundation paid for CoC ? If so, it would be nice if FreeBSD Foundation got a refund for CoC & spent it on a a student janitor to clear up years old send-pr's. I agree with the other person's thoughts that FreeBSD fixes uncommited for years destroys incentive to file more fixes. An example from 2014 (not mine, though I have or had some too, gets too boring to keep track for ever, years on end) ftp://ctm.berklix.org/pub/FreeBSD/development/CTM/svn-cur/patch-for-ctm-v09 16221 Nov 15 2014 I resubmitted it recently https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/ctm-users/2018-February/000519.html https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=159665 PS Bryan I suggest fix your mailer to not emit quoted printable =20 noise. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Brexit Referendum stole 3,700,000 votes, inc. 700,000 from British in EU. UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3. Petition for votes: http://berklix.eu/queen/
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