From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 12 19:08:30 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB26106567E for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:08:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michael.copeland@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f18.google.com (mail-qy0-f18.google.com [209.85.221.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8598FC2F for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:08:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michael.copeland@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qy0-f18.google.com with SMTP id 11so1985261qyk.19 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:08:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=V22VAL8WKqEBZPF5dI9IWk3uo2crDauJI/Ka85VvZkY=; b=q0wnySCwkk73jq5+LPDw9baGxRb3Mpg+Yuv6piuw9CuNM3S+Ugk63Sx14eAmBftG7a CWM/h3uIkY8jakWEwZakWQ9u3seXN2bkcAnkIXy59iJEL9Phd/bWEpOSqkvZTf86otas ADnRzuCU0OwuE4ChlcgCak+daVXZoT3CjS51o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jXX+SLTvWM9/GmL4wsThyCvveGNu/aU8uAqDcj/ogSyTxheZLHvck2SF0FLhQq1Zoi eXIaMe8eB7Gw8dwNDtX4PB85SAstVyhj0jWt5TH1QAsiKMjS6iJiek2fpajWHG0d084B a0C/rOwbNb7JQSBjC8rj/3jWjHAbfWtRSK27c= Received: by 10.214.216.17 with SMTP id o17mr5690409qag.120.1229108909363; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.104? (adsl-074-245-053-043.sip.jax.bellsouth.net [74.245.53.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm1907117yws.18.2008.12.12.11.08.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:08:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4942B6A3.504@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:08:19 -0500 From: michael User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081125) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20081207193517.GA20905@laverenz.de> <20081211170011.777236f8@gom.home> <20081212015814.GB32982@kokopelli.hydra> <200812112345.20572.perlcat@alltel.net> <20081212174607.GC36348@kokopelli.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20081212174607.GC36348@kokopelli.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:08:30 -0000 Chad Perrin wrote: > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:45:20PM -0600, Tyson Boellstorff wrote: > >> On Thursday 11 December 2008 19:58:14 Chad Perrin wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 05:00:11PM -0800, prad wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:28:13 -0700 >>>> >>>> i don't think that's really what is happening, chad. >>>> i think there is just some disagreement as to what is considered an >>>> improvement. >>>> >>> So . . . are you saying that increased support for 3D accelerated >>> graphics is not an "improvement", and should therefore not be considered >>> a worthy goal? >>> >>> >> Not so much considered 'unworthy' as it is a balancing of limited resources. >> If I was a hardware programmer, had unlimited time, beer, and cheese dip, I'd >> add everything just because I could. >> > > I don't think anyone said anything about taking development effort away > from, for instance, the network virtualization project to put into > achieving better 3D accelerated graphics -- just that it would be nice if > we had better support for 3D accelerated graphics. One need not entirely > write off the notion of putting more effort into one thing to assure that > we don't cease putting effort into another. One of the great things > about open source development is that, often, more development talent can > be found for new projects from people just idling around the periphery. > > > >> It would be cool if there was a way to ensure that all items would be >> supported. However, even then, high performance video would lag. It is often >> proprietary, and many vendors simply won't publish their specs and need a >> reverse engineer to get any support at all. You can't force them to do it, >> and in the case of an open source OS, they may not want the world+dog to see >> their code for any number of reasons. nVidia is a rare exception, and even >> they are not going to put FreeBSD support at the top of their list. >> > > What does that have to do with whether or not it's a good idea to solicit > graphics and driver developers who aren't already doing something to work > on it, if they're so inclined? > > > >> Long story short, there's room for all types. Enjoy the diversity. Fix what >> you can. Avoid the problems you can. Use the appropriate tools for their best >> purposes. >> > > Judging by the responses of some people on this list, there *isn't* room > for all types. That's my problem with this whole mess. > > why don't we all just say it. freebsd sucks because it isn't cp/m.