From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Feb 24 21:45:35 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33929C28 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:45:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from udns.ultimateDNS.NET (ultimatedns.net [209.180.214.225]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 034AF1A34 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:45:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from udns.ultimateDNS.NET (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimateDNS.NET (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s1OLjkhv003977 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:45:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by udns.ultimateDNS.NET (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id s1OLjejS003976; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:45:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net ([209.180.214.225]) (UDNSMS authenticated user chrish) by ultimatedns.net with HTTP; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:45:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <78585613239e04cb1d3cdc9ac0a1afb2.authenticated@ultimatedns.net> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:45:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: RFC: Port development standards From: "Chris H" To: "freebsd-stable" User-Agent: UDNSMS/2.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:45:35 -0000 Or perhaps GSOC proposal... Well, I just performed svn up across my entire server base, last night. For a planned major update across the farm, set for the following AM. This morning, I open /usr/ports/UPDATING to see what hurdles I might have to contend with. OMG! You have GOT to be kidding! REALLY! Not again... WAFM! OK I've been on BSD since day -1. I've got copies of the original DEC tapes, and the entire history since. I loved everything about it. It was POSIX, it ultimately had ONE (smallish) steering committee. Which ultimately led to it's always being "stable", and trustworthy/dependable -- unlike the *NIX wannabe OS, that had HUNDREDS of "distro" makers. Making it more of an "adventure", than server grade OS. Anyway, to the point; It was this dependability/reliability that kept me on the BSD train. I could ALWAYS depend on it, and I ALWAYS knew what to expect. THIS is what set it apart for me, and I'm QUITE sure, others. The philosophy/standard that BSD chose, allowed Administrators, and developers to adopt/create routines, and standards that catered to their environments, and to further hone their development maintenance environments to better suite their work, as well as to better contribute to the BSD community, at large. In short; it worked perfectly for everyone involved. In recent years, this has seemingly all begun to change; perhaps the first notable change was from the old-but-tried-and-true, csup/cvsup. That had permitted FreeBSD users/administrators to easily, quickly, and reliably update their source, and ports trees. But that method was dropped for subversion, on the basis that it was more flexible, and otherwise, more suitable. Unlike (c|v)sup, subversion has been plagued with security issues. Not to mention the enormous burden the change forced upon administrators, that had for years, developed systems surrounding the (c|v)sup method. To make matters worse; licensing wasn't even in sync with BSD's licensing, let alone, under BSD development/ management (standards?). There's the addition of clang -- a change of the make(1) framework. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not. Time alone will tell. Speaking of; there's also pkg_, no... it's pkgng, or was it pkg. Or how about WITH_, or was it SET_||UNSET_, or USE... ugh! It's all so hard to keep up with. Who-the-hell-knows anymore. Which brings me to my point; Is it just me? Or has FreeBSD become somewhat of a stranger, or Alien. Sure I get it; BSD is composed greatly of "contributors". Face it. Those of us who spend the greater part of our lives, or free time coding, know; it can get really boring -- really boring. So who wouldn't want to start cobbling on something new, and different? But FreeBSD ISN'T primarily a "hobby" OS, much like the other *NIX-like OS(s) is/are. It is largely used by businesses, and those who's living DEPENDS on BSD. So this is my cry for a "sanity check"; A proposal/RFC for a "standards committee" regarding the path/direction(s) of the (Free)BSD ports system. I had the impression there already was one. But I've been wrong before. ;) How this goes is up to you -- those who(m) choose to respond. I would just merely like to address this matter. As I'm well aware that there are many who share to varying degrees, similar views -- even those whom are afraid, or unwilling to admit it. :) Please note, the preceding statements, are not vents of emotion, but binary acknowledgements based on my (and others expressed) experiences. This is NOT a flame. This is NOT a rant. It is an RFC. Nothing more, nothing less. Thank you for all your time, and consideration in these matters. Sincerely, Chris