From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 2 19:16:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6743C16A4DD for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2006 19:16:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E26543D6D for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2006 19:16:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n29so751447nfc for ; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:16:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Fium0x+Cna85rUK+EPbTNhDJ/ZLQwHoJtiIYoVEQu43DvSP4sklBg5GaBUt9qAmO94j4f9B7svk0C2b6Zvh1gBfSQoPwmCEoYNpDRzh2AFy0FUgt10NfSOuzdZ+353uW8B6WiE+KPfujZkpZ16qV4WMPbXu30ywd6nDiMDEkrMg= Received: by 10.78.127.6 with SMTP id z6mr485450huc; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.143.11 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:16:02 -0700 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: "Alex Zbyslaw" In-Reply-To: <44D0F2FE.9020507@dial.pipex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060728164526.E27679@ganymede.hub.org> <17615.30414.314802.792740@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20060801223754.U27679@ganymede.hub.org> <20060801230301.Q27679@ganymede.hub.org> <44D09F46.6020300@dial.pipex.com> <44D0F2FE.9020507@dial.pipex.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Gotta start somewhere ... how many of us are really out there? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 19:16:11 -0000 On 8/2/06, Alex Zbyslaw wrote: > Nikolas Britton wrote: > > > On 8/2/06, Alex Zbyslaw wrote: > > > >> > >> But the question then goes back to: can you make any kind of count out > >> of cvsup servers? Someone already said they thought you couldn't. > >> > >> At the end of the day, I think that unique IP address is as close as > >> it's possible to get to host count. It will undercount NATed hosts and > >> networks with single cvsup/portsnap distribution points, and will > >> overcount variable IP addresses. The latter, I think matters the least > >> as long as you do your stats over a short enough period (e.g. 1 month). > >> That wouldn't overcount much and deliberate faking would be hard and > >> limited (how many IP addresses can one faker get access to?). > > > > > > The problem with cvsup (I use cvsup.) is the error margin. The closer > > we get to release dates the more I use cvsup, It's a side effect of > > running -STABLE. anyways... back to the fakers... > > > > Lets think about the usage patterns of a "typical" faker vs NAT: > > > > Faker: > > * All from one IP address. > > * Sequential requests. > > * Scripted, so each request should be timed perfectly with the one > > before and the one after it. > > * Thousands of requests. > > > > NATed Boxes: > > * All from one IP address. > > * Parallel requests. > > * Not scripted, requests should be more random. > > * Hundreds of requests? > > But if what you are counting is IP addresses then you faker has achieved > nothing. You're not counting connections, but IP addresses. Yes, you > undercount NATed and yes you undercount when distribution points are > used, but I don't see any easy way to fake, at least not on the scale of > a URL. Yes, if you happen to have 200 IP addresses, you could probably > assign each in turn to your BSD box and cvsup, but this seems less > likely to me, and is inherently limited. > > Sometimes I cvsup three times a day - in which case all are likely to > come from same IP. Sometimes I cvsup once a month or less, in which > case looking at statistics only over the last month will tend to flatten > any effect from variable IPs. > > It's far from perfect, but unless you want each installation to have its > own license number and a "GenuineFreeBSD" program which enforces unique > license numbers somehow, I don't think there is a perfect answer. I'm > guessing no-one in their right might does want this kind of enforcement ;-) > This may sound dumb but why don't we just put a registration link on the FreeBSD main page... or "registration" in sysinstall. Isn't this how everyone else handles the problem? -- BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/