From owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 11 13:29:25 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BB86518 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:29:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-x234.google.com (mail-ie0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01AF1122D for ; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:29:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f180.google.com with SMTP id at1so4296072iec.25 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 05:29:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dataix.net; s=rsa; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=k0nGbzPZ+4+jVwE0qVG8deo8mYXqspy5oRBHzfVdYA4=; b=KrtSacEU+dArB7nYNaHb8Ydh/yaccnGcRFoW4OOjrP3bk1jGDhh2ca590zSodIxWvV 0XlD3ck5ue3CYzaaaxuLPs6vku2JLn6lI1bFL+HpD81H9trt/WDwZOslLwLUbgpy+eTf DnIR7lGmPxhdwJTwYczTMUfNClEMSQyp2pbg4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=k0nGbzPZ+4+jVwE0qVG8deo8mYXqspy5oRBHzfVdYA4=; b=EFDtl0OPJ5WmncjBp1SY53KoA9q2K9qo/cyaCMGZTzXYqd+kfGctcJWkEldLRonCVC uVLDLW1LZa6eRr3MRtanmhdUC3A/gbqT0OPAyTCMuG6Fop9Vw5lWpeogWuYz838QtWbZ Gc4T3SrPDTuVZ/PXL/Cg07jHd7JOdHYakKy9E0ksKg9iZh3wOPbt0DMV7Rqferxi+O8T vvJxkgmjJDKTQ6kDDuW9/vcfwbdRq3LzQz5av9OjRhM4ZlaEgNOrYJbdAFVuMhP94tIP /Cq3hcJbT+jD5eWFRB37CY9kHscCEbHe1Lnl99nKBBASd156fuzfzf6I1q2b4+H1OUZE xkdw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmF+5thn2E7vkaQKrhLsDxHRfhOAbQ/LpTzBu/t2oOHg0aNleQOdcWzfDmEmBCdWPXhcQR8 X-Received: by 10.50.159.194 with SMTP id xe2mr19816669igb.13.1392125364305; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 05:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.31.35.2] (75-128-101-59.dhcp.sgnw.mi.charter.com. [75.128.101.59]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id kl8sm17202808igb.3.2014.02.11.05.29.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Feb 2014 05:29:23 -0800 (PST) References: <1063008459.20140111160525@serebryakov.spb.ru> <52D14140.3090003@gibfest.dk> <20140111.143644.41639035.sthaug@nethelp.no> <52D15185.50802@gibfest.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-9D9D4CF5-E245-4ACD-9490-F52EA6ABAC1F; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B554a) From: Jason Hellenthal Subject: Re: Merge ping+ping6 and traceroue+traceroute6 to single utilities? Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 08:29:20 -0500 To: Mark Martinec X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.17 Cc: "freebsd-net@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-net@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Networking and TCP/IP with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 13:29:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail-9D9D4CF5-E245-4ACD-9490-F52EA6ABAC1F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Something like this should not be that hard to convince anyone to commit the= change. I've seen three IIRC people in the past that had patches and they a= lso commented on how easy it was. Why on earth I don't understand people need to pull their grey beards out ov= er something that isn't going to interfere with their day to day lives if do= ne correctly. As you say . . . cisco, Juniper, Microsoft, but yet FreeBSD is regarded as .= . . Advanced network operating system. Just because a new protocol is invented doesn't mean that there should be a s= eparate utility. That's an annoyance and a write off to do the right thing. Otherwise we may as well start writing everything to be protocol dependent. Regards to just ping though aren't 9/10 times you are using it because name s= ervices have failed in some way so you are providing an address ? One of my daughters under the age of 10 knows the difference between v4 and v= 6 addresses. Uses windows ping and is confused by *ix systems because ping d= oesn't recognize ::1. Try to explain that to someone under ten. In a way it'= s a little embarrassing. --=20 Jason Hellenthal Voice: 95.30.17.6/616 JJH48-ARIN > On Feb 11, 2014, at 5:56, Mark Martinec wro= te: >=20 > 2014-02-11 10:00, Jason Hellenthal wrote: >> ping localhost ("grab any name, you just want to know its alive") >> ping 127.0.0.1 ("you know you are pinging v4 without a doubt") >> ping ::1 ("you also know you are pinging v6 without a doubt") >> ping -4 localhost ("you know you are getting v4 without a doubt") >> ping -6 localhost ("you know you are getting v6 without a doubt") >> ping -4 ::1 ("must be retarded in some way") >=20 > That's how it works in several commercial routers (Cisco, Summit, Juniper,= ...) > and that's how it works in Windows 7/8. No surprises to a user there, > 'does the right thing'. >=20 >> Doing it right and merging these two would leave for more constructive us= e. > [...] >> There is no reason whatsoever that these utilities cannot be combined. An= d >> there is one very valid reason they should be. > [...] >> Quite frankly I am tired of seeing the old pessimism and paradigms that >> projects keep falling into over silly little subtle changes. >=20 > Remember the original PHK's story ( http://bikeshed.com/ ) ? > It ended favourably for the sleep(1) command, it got its new feature. > What can be learned there is: just needs someone to do it and be > persistent enough to be accepted. >=20 > Looks like a perfect task for Google Summer of Code 2014, > time to apply is very near: > http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2014 >=20 >=20 > Mark > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --Apple-Mail-9D9D4CF5-E245-4ACD-9490-F52EA6ABAC1F Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s 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